Module talk:Find sources

Module:Find sources is permanently protected from editing because it is a heavily used or highly visible module. Substantial changes should first be proposed and discussed here on this page. If the proposal is uncontroversial or has been discussed and is supported by consensus, editors may use {{edit template-protected}} to notify an administrator or template editor to make the requested edit.

This module was considered for deletion on 2017 May 14. The result of the discussion was "no consensus".

Archives

Archive 1

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add google with brave search and sci hub Baratiiman (talk) 08:15, 12 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: 1. We will not be linking to Sci Hub. 2. We already have one Google search. I don't see a reason to use a second. Izno (talk) 22:19, 12 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

but google and bing dont work in my country only brave Baratiiman (talk) 17:07, 13 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

This edit request to Module:Find sources/links has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Add Reuters and AP search as link codes to the Find sources module. There is some discussion on this change at Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals)#Replace nyt with reuters; while the proposal to replace NYT with Reuters is clearly controversial, there seems to be less controversy with adding it (and/or the Associated Press) as an option, and in either case having them available as a link codes would be a prerequisite.

I believe adding the following to the code in Module:Find sources/links should work (though I'd appreciate a double check; also as far as I know news wires are not italicized as titles the way newspapers are, but again, a double check on language and formatting would be appreciated):

	["ap"] = {
		url = 'https://apnews.com/search?q=$1',
		display = "Associated Press",
		description = "The [[Associated Press]], an American news agency",
	},

	["reuters"] = {
		url = 'https://www.reuters.com/site-search/?query=$1',
		display = "Reuters",
		description = "[[Reuters]], an international news agency",
	},

In addition, the link codes table in Module:Find sources/doc needs to be updated if this change is made, though the documentation does not appear to be template protected so I am happy to make said change myself. Thanks! Dylnuge ^{(Talk • Edits)} 00:25, 3 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Not opposed, but imho, this isn't the sort of thing that should just be added to the module as a simple response to an edit request (although I think it's fine to request it that way), but by broader

consensus, as this would have a wide impact. Mathglot (talk) 08:22, 3 August 2023 (UTC)[reply

]

That makes sense to me! Two questions:

1. I want to make sure I really understand the change I proposed here, since I'm not generally familiar with modules. I was under the impression adding the link codes wouldn't impact existing templates, though looking more into it, it also seems like there's no configurability in the current templates so maybe adding the link codes is a useless no-op. Is the right thing here to seek consensus on the full change altogether (i.e. get consensus on adding one or both newswires to the find sources template before making any changes like adding them as options to the link codes list)?
2. Is the right place to seek consensus the VPR thread (Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals)#Replace nyt with reuters)? Adding the sources to the default find sources does seem like a pretty major change, and I assume a handful of editors doesn't make a proper consensus for something like that.

Thanks for your help here! Dylnuge ^{(Talk • Edits)} 16:17, 3 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

As for #1, you're correct; merely adding the config wouldn't change the behavior. Not sure about the second half of #1, but as it wouldn't do anything and consensus isn't guaranteed, it seems to me it would just be clutter, and there's no rush, so why bother?

#2 Wasn't aware of it until you mentioned it, but VPR is a highly visible location and one possible venue, so as it's open there already, that would certainly be the place to gain consensus for it, imho. I'm not a gatekeeper here, just trying to add my own opinion about your questions, but as it's a highly visible change, imho a solid consensus should be sought. Hope this helps, Mathglot (talk) 17:30, 3 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

There are two relevant entities here: Module:Find sources and Template:Find sources. The module is the sort of core, which contains the structure for adding links, whereas the template is what determines which links are actually used, and is what appears on many talk pages. There are a few other templates that also use the module core.

Adding AP and Reuters to the module is something I'd support, as they could feasibly be used. But adding them to the find sources template in addition to NYT is something I'd oppose, as that'd be the first step down the path that ends with us listing every large-scale reliable news organization, and then we have something that's no longer one line but half a dozen, contributing to talk page bloat and banner blindness. We need to think about that actual workflow that someone search for sources for an article goes through. It's generally not to go to the website of every reputable news organization to see what coverage they have; rather, it's to use Google News, which will bring up stories from the NYT, AP, Reuters, and all the others. {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 18:55, 3 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Clarification: the template selects the search domain, and the module config files determine which links are displayed for each search domain. Mathglot (talk) 23:00, 3 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Deactivate awaiting full clarification and

ed. ^{put'er there} 23:27, 18 August 2023 (UTC)[reply

]

 Done Note this specific edit does not change the output of any Find Sources template, which is controlled by the relevant subpage of Module:Find sources/templates. Hence this edit is innocuous and never required consensus. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 21:40, 22 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

	["bbc"] = {
		url = 'https://www.bbc.co.uk/search?q=$1',
		display = "BBC",
		description = "[[BBC]], British public broadcaster",
	},
	["wsj"] = {
		url = 'https://www.wsj.com/search?query=$1',
		display = "Wall Street Journal",
		description = "The website of ''[[The Wall Street Journal]]'', a [[newspaper of record]] for the United States.",
	},

Description of suggested change: add these codes to

 Done As before this doesn't actually change the output of any specific template - I'll probably require a much broader discussion before adding this to Module:Find sources/templates/Find general sources * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 02:50, 24 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

add these codes

		{
			code = 'ap',
			display = 'AP',
			tooltip = 'Associated Press',
		},

to these pages:

1. Module:Find sources/templates/Find general sources
2. Module:Find sources/templates/Find sources
3. Module:Find sources/templates/Find biographical sources
4. Module:Find sources/templates/Find sources video games

reason: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Village_pump_(proposals)&oldid=1186487350#RfC_on_Module:Find_sources_-_replace_New_York_Times_with_Associated_Press .--RZuo (talk) 14:56, 23 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

 Done for Module:Find sources/templates/Find general sources. The remaining three pages aren't template protected so you can edit them yourself. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 02:50, 24 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Ack, I'm only seeing this now, but this was a bad outcome, starting us down the path that'll end with us listing a dozen different high-profile newspapers. I've come to the view that we shouldn't be listing any newspapers individually in the find sources bar — the geographic hurdles, combined with the difficulty of achieving consensus on the outlets to use, and the banner bloat issue, are part of the reason. But really the main thing is just that people don't generally find sources by looking through archives in specific publications — they instead do searches on Google News or other databases that turn up broader results. {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 04:45, 24 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It is as you feared ... * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 15:54, 24 November 2023 (UTC)[reply

]

it is as i had planned. Sdkb is obviously one of the smart ones among the discussion participants. RZuo (talk) 07:24, 25 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

while taking action against NYT in this template, i will be blocked from English Wikipedia maybe pretty soon. :) --RZuo (talk) 21:09, 29 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Find general sources has "869860 transclusion(s) found" as of 06:36, 30 November 2023 (UTC), as I just checked https://templatecount.toolforge.org/index.php?lang=en&namespace=10&name=Find_general_sources#bottom .

(Appreciate it if another user can reply below and confirm this.)

This is written here because

Quoting from what appears right now on the template page, this is "roughly 1% of all pages" on English Wikipedia. RZuo (talk) 06:42, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Also, quoting from Module_talk:Find_sources/Archive_1#Wikipedia_Library_text, "this is an 800k-transclusion template" in September 2021. RZuo (talk) 06:58, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

This edit request to Module:Find sources/templates/Find general sources has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

A discussion at Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals) resulted in consensus supporting the proposal to "remove all individual news outlets" from Module:Find sources/templates/Find general sources (closure: Special:Diff/1195065906). This means removal of the following lines:

		{
			code = 'new york times',
			display = "''NYT''",
			tooltip = 'The New York Times',
		},
		{
			code = 'ap',
			display = 'AP',
			tooltip = 'Associated Press',
		},

Adumbrativus (talk) 05:26, 12 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Done by Sdkb in Special:Diff/1195169672 SWinxy (talk) 22:16, 12 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]