Requests for arbitration

Initiated by Maxim_(talk) at 19:20, 11 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Involved parties

• Maxim (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA), filing party
• Fred Bauder (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Iridescent (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA
  )
• Boing! said Zebedee (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA)

Confirmation that all parties are aware of the request

• diff of notification Fred Bauder

Confirmation that other steps in dispute resolution have been tried

• Not applicable

Statement by Maxim

I've desysoped

WP:BN. Maxim_(talk) 20:14, 11 November 2018 (UTC)[reply

]

Alanscottwalker, certainly, I'll try to clarify my reasoning. Self-unblocking (unless it's an obvious accident, i.e. admin blocks himself instead of intended target) is a really clear line in the sand. Doing it twice is over-the-top over the line. I don't think it's unreasonable to think a third self-unblock would occur. So if were a third self-unblock to happen we'd be back at re-blocking again. And so on and so forth. Such a situation is most undesirable given community expectations for admin conduct. The current situation is now effectively stable - that is more desirable than continuing or possibly continuing the unblock-reblock cycle. In ordinary edit-warring cases we use blocks and protections to stabilize the situation because it forces an end to the warring. With an admin unblocking himself twice, the only way you do the same is by desysop. So, I think the desysop is in the best interest of the project. Optically it's not an emergency like a rogue admin but I'd argue it rises to a different kind of emergency, and in both cases the outcome is fairly guaranteed to be the same. Maxim_(talk) 22:42, 11 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Alanscottwalker, not much happened but the possibility of it continuing did exist (and it is not an unreasonable possibility). And now the possibility does not exist. Regarding protection, I was using it as an analogy. In the situation at hand, I was responding to self-unblocking, not the election question page edit war. Maxim_(talk) 22:59, 11 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I have no idea what Fred Bauder is referring to, as I undertook the action on my own initiative based on the reading of the unfolding situation. There was no "emergency request from an administrator" communicated to me. Maxim_(talk) 00:45, 12 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Fred Bauder

Maxim relied in good faith on an emergency request from an administrator. Any such request should be honored without requiring a through investigation. It could have been an actual emergency.

Statement by Iridescent

Adding myself as a party pro forma in light of the fact that I'm the one who performed the reblock which Fred Bauder reversed—i.e. when the issue changed from a violation of

@

Iridescent 19:57, 11 November 2018 (UTC)[reply

]

@

Iridescent 21:09, 11 November 2018 (UTC)[reply

]

• I'll just add that as the admin who imposed the original 24-hour block, and with the consent of User:Future Perfect at Sunrise who upped it to indefinite, I have unblocked User:Fred Bauder as there seems to be a consensus that the block is no longer preventative. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 08:30, 12 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• And just to respond to a comment by User:Opabinia regalis that I was "edit-warring ..., over material you yourself posted" I must point out that it was not just my questions he was moving and to which I objected, but the questions of several people - mine were largely inconsequential requests for expansion on earlier questions, but those of others were not. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 09:47, 12 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Another thought. If an emergency desysop request has been sent and received and ArbCom is considering it, perhaps some acknowledgment of its receipt might at least be good manners? If nothing else, it might prevent others taking emergency action when they don't see you as doing anything. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 10:05, 12 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• @Opabinia regalis: You say "on-wiki notifications instead of just answering emails is a good idea", but I did not even receive a reply to my email. Did anyone else? Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 10:40, 12 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Lourdes

The community is discussing this issue at ANI and there's no need for the ArbCom to step in here as of this moment. With due thanks to Maxim for the absolutely on the dot action, Maxim could well have emailed the ArbCom than opened up this thread. Lourdes 19:39, 11 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Per

Iridescent's explanation; I realize I'd misunderstood the basis of this filing. Lourdes 15:55, 12 November 2018 (UTC)[reply

]

• @Softlavender: Many thanks. i) FYI, I don't "think ANI is still open"; it was open when I posted, and now it's closed. Thus is the way of the world. ii) Please stop talking to me. Yours, etc., ——SerialNumber54129 07:23, 12 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• @Dax Bane: that would appear to be almost wholly irrelevant. ——SerialNumber54129 07:34, 12 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• @Wumbolo: Yes, that's about the only issue that so far actually has been resolved, so at least we can move on from it now. ——SerialNumber54129 15:31, 12 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by WBG

• As the editor who triggered the chain of events, I pretty much believe Fred's attitude is incompatible with our current values.
• And a desysop is the basic minimum, which ought be executed with minimal fuss by the commitee and this case request be dealt with.Maxim's actions were very rational and it was a good call.
• Per Cas's comment (which frames my thoughts well-enough), the indef shall be stayed unless he can demonstrate his competency.
• I note that my usage of rollback has been questioned and I agree that it was non-optimal.∯WBG^converse 19:44, 11 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Funplussmart

There seems to be overwhelming consensus for a desysop for wheel-warring, but a site ban is probably unnessesary in my opinion (I changed my vote in the ANI post). Of course, we are only here for procedure only. funplussmart (talk) 19:45, 11 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

And I do support Maxim's desysoping. (of Fred Bauder) funplussmart (talk) 19:51, 11 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Questions by Alanscottwalker

What was the imminent harm? I get that there was wheel-warring/self-dealing but why could not the de-sysop wait for emergency process? What was going to happen? Nothing? In other words, so he is unblocked, what did you think he would do, move questions from a page to its talk page? So, those can be moved back, right? Alanscottwalker (talk) 19:46, 11 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

And, what? Is it true the desysop was two hours after the last unblock, and what happened in that time? Nothing? Alanscottwalker (talk) 20:13, 11 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

"[T]his seems like it would have been solved with far less drama by stopping immediately after Fred's first revert and asking the election commissioners to review the situation." Indeed, so what if those questions were moved for a few hours or even a day or so, as there was a pointer to them? What was it that could not have been talked through? Alanscottwalker (talk) 21:49, 11 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Maxim: can you respond to any of the above questions? Thanks. Alanscottwalker (talk) 21:56, 11 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I think it has already been pointed out that desysop requires a case, even after an emergency desysop, is that right? Alanscottwalker (talk) 22:23, 11 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Maxim: Why do you say the situation was unstable? What specifically had happened in the last hour before your action? -- Alanscottwalker (talk) 22:45, 11 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Maxim: Also, you say you consider protection in an edit war? This is claimed to have started as an edit war, so, did you consider protection to stabilize the situation? Alanscottwalker (talk) 22:52, 11 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Maxim: So nothing had happened, and yet you still could not wait for the Committee? Alanscottwalker (talk) 23:44, 11 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Maxim: Did someone request that you do this? -- Alanscottwalker (talk) 00:34, 12 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Alanscottwalker

The committee, as much as individuals may not want, is required to open a case and examine all the circumstances raised, here, per policy.

First, once again, it is very poor idea as suggested by eg. WBScribe, that unless the committee is going to de-buercrat/desysop/ban/block Maxime or do something terrible to some other alleged malefactor they should not take a case. A case serves to create a record and clarify issues -- one of the things that is not acknowledged enough, is that because the committee takes and decides cases over the years, overtime the community has arrived at a better meeting of minds on policies, thier application, and the issues surrounding them, when it takes up matters (this is only reasonable, because the community really does not have deliberative processes, besides the Arbcom process, (we have, it rather seems, 'OMG, something has to happen', fests)).

And really, come on, when else will the committee be able to explicate, clarify, examine in light of FACTS its emergency process? Never?

Apart, from what would have been a Level 2, given the number of people involved, and the number issues: of provocation (outing? goading? personalization?), of edit-warring (rollback?) (on deep internal page far from content?); then blocks (involved?); a claimed "emergency" (to borrow a fire analogy, since they seem a popular analogy in these matters, 'if you come upon the remains of an arson, there are a whole host of reasons not to stir the debris'), when there is already an emergency process? There is a crying need for more clarity per Level II policy ("if the Committee determines that a routine reinstatement of permissions is not appropriate, normal arbitration proceedings shall be opened to examine the removal of permissions and any surrounding circumstances"). Alanscottwalker (talk) 15:09, 12 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Dave

Said it at ANI and I'll say it here - He should've been desysopped but I believe any sort of ban/sanction is OTT, He didn't go on a rampage blocking everyone and causing mayhem - He simply unblocked himself twice (which is still a dickish thing to do but point is it could've been much worse), I would suggest the committee decline this. –Davey2010^Talk 19:51, 11 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks

Iridescent

I've completely misunderstood why we're here!, This is what 6 hours sleep does to you lol,

Well I support Maxim's actions anyway. –Davey2010^Talk 20:31, 11 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Galobtter

I'm curious what the committee members mean by "accept". we need to examine why the Arbitration Committee was unable to apply Level I in this situation, a clear example of what it was intended for would need to be discussed among the committee since only the committee would have access to the mailing list/know why three arbitrators were unable to ratify Level I desysop. what bureaucrats are meant to do in emergency situations. could easily be handled by motion/community RfC on whether bureaucrats can remove permissions in an emergency. I don't see how a case is supposed to help with either of those two questions. If the only purpose is to decide those questions, a case seems an excessively bureaucratic and prolonged way of doing so; the structure of case would not seem to aide in any manner in deciding these questions. Galobtter (pingó mió) 20:01, 11 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Examining the initial block might be worthwhile though; per my comments at

WP:ANI ([1][2]), that is really the more significant issue since the matter of desysoping for wheel warring/unblocking yourself is well settled. Considering this relatively recent motion in a similarish case of edit warring and then using the admin tools in the same dispute, a look at involvement in relation to edit warring would be beneficial. Galobtter (pingó mió) 20:23, 11 November 2018 (UTC)[reply

]

If I had seen this earlier, I would have requested an emergency desysop from a steward, but when I saw this the self-unblocks were already 2 hours old. Speaking as a former steward, this could have been acted on by them if the wheel warring was still active. --Rschen7754 20:07, 11 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Ivanvector (re: Fred Bauder)

I would like to see the Committee formally endorse Maxim's action per

And to this last point I recommend that, since he has been desysopped by a bureaucrat ignoring the rules in the clear best interest of the project and so the immediate threat should be considered mitigated, Fred Bauder should be unblocked to participate in this case request. Ivanvector (^Talk/_Edits) 20:17, 11 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Cryptic

A link to the edit war that led to this seems conspicuous by its absence. [3] —

As for Op.reg's comments about going fast fast - to a large extent that was conditioned by Bauder's wheel warring, which got us to the state we are in. Beyond My Ken (talk) 22:00, 11 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

And while I'm here, I may as well say (for what it's worth) that I support Maxim's desysop of Bauder, which appears to me to be a spot-on application of what IAR was meant for. Beyond My Ken (talk) 22:03, 11 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Endorse Bbb23's suggestion. Beyond My Ken (talk) 22:20, 11 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Would a clerk please update the Arb count? Beyond My Ken (talk) 09:55, 12 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Bbb23

@Opabinia regalis: You're in real trouble when I don't have to scroll down to the signature to know that it's your opinion. I agree with Opabinia's comments. There's a fair amount of blame to go around here, but I see no need to take anyone to task for it. Just confirm the desysop by motion, and we're done. You can't clean up the mess at ANI, but you don't have to extend it.--Bbb23 (talk) 22:12, 11 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Statememt by Beeblebrox

Clearly you don’t need yet another user telling you this but what the hell: take the case and resolve it by motion. I think that is the obvious path, Fred crossed a bright line, twice, so there’s no need to debate his other actions. The committtee has held in the past that doing so is not ok regardless of whether or not the initial block was justified. The community can decide what other remedies may or may not be needed, but only you guys can do the desysop which is mandated both by policy and very strong consensus of the community. And Maxim obviously did the right thing here in preventing the very real risk of further wheel warring, something that must be nipped in the bud ASAP.

@

talk) 22:59, 11 November 2018 (UTC)[reply

]

It shouldn't be relevant that his real identity is known to Wikipedians. The question is whether the link reveals personal information of a harmful nature about Fred that he himself had not previously disclosed. – wbm1058 (talk) 23:19, 11 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I hear Littleolive oil's concerns (below), but am assuming that this edit wasn't oversightable, or it would have been oversighted by now. I'm asking if "this type of opposition research and the linking of off-wiki" information is prohibited under the OUTING policy, although it apparently falls short of being oversightable. Or, is this not a clear-cut infraction because, "context matters", and the question is appropriate in this context? wbm1058 (talk) 11:44, 12 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Dax Bane and Serial Number 54129: I see one clear principle that applies here: Admins should not unblock themselves. Can you elaborate on what other applicable principle you see there? Thanks for pointing out this precedent to the Committee; I trust that they'll find it helpful. wbm1058 (talk) 15:53, 12 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Mz7

I think

So with that in mind, I think the committee should think about replacing LEVEL1. My opinion on the best solution would be a change to the administrator policy that explicitly allows bureaucrats and possibly also stewards to make emergency desysops in certain

Such a change would probably be in the purview of a community RfC, but doing away with LEVEL1 is for ArbCom to decide. Currently, the only entity that is technically allowed to perform involuntary desysops at its own discretion is the Arbitration Committee (and also the stewards, in "emergencies", but what is and is not an emergency is not well-defined). My thought is that this would just be a codification of existing practice, as most good policy proposals are. Mz7 (talk) 22:58, 11 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Littleolive oil

Fred's behavior aside; it is unconscionable to bring up an editor's personal life in an arbitration election whether before or after the inappropriate behaviour. I had hoped that here at least with admins and arbs we could be better than that. There is to excuse for this. None. Its just shabby!(Littleolive oil (talk) 00:44, 12 November 2018 (UTC)); edited (05:07, 12 November 2018 (UTC))[reply]

@Softlavender: Please see your user talkpage.(Littleolive oil (talk) 04:17, 12 November 2018 (UTC))[reply]

Statement by Black Kite

An admin running for ArbCom with fewer than 300 mainspace edits in the last six months, and fewer than 30 logged admin actions, who thinks they can unblock themselves because they've been here a long time and are more important than others? F*** that. Desysop them, throw them out of the ArbCom list, and let them go back to being anonymous. Seriously, I have no idea what Fred thought was going to happen when he popped up and ran for ArbCom. Many people here are aware of his past, so someone was going to raise it, weren't they? Black Kite (talk) 00:56, 12 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by JzG

Seriously? Fred was last blocked in... oh, wait, he has zero previous blocks other than his own tests. Since 2002. This is Fred. fucking. Bauder. He was being trolled. Children born since Fred registered can legally marry now. Everyone just needs to walk away. Guy (Help!) 00:58, 12 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Govindaharihari

• Shame on those involved, including →https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration_Committee_Elections_December_2018/Candidates/Fred_Bauder/Questions&action=history
  User:Iridescent for their possible outing https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=867787083 and attempt to community ban the user. Govindaharihari (talk) 01:43, 12 November 2018 (UTC)[reply
  ]

Question for Littleolive oil: You wrote "it is unconscionable to bring up an editor's personal life in an arbitration", but I can find no evidence of that occurring on this page, and nothing has been deleted. Could you clarify what you are referring to? Softlavender (talk) 04:02, 12 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note to those who thought this matter was being handled at ANI (Lourdes, Serial Number 54129): It is not; the entire thread has been closed because the issue is now at ArbCom: [4]. -- Softlavender (talk) 04:14, 12 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Small point of order in response to Opabinia regalis: Boing! said Zebedee was not the only person's questions Fred Bauder removed at the Q&A: He also removed questions from Winged Blades of Godric and myself. And Fred Bauer was edit warring originally and mainly with Winged Blades of Godric [5]. All in all Fred Bauer made these reverts: [6], [7], [8], [9], [10], [11], [12], [13], which repeatedly removed over 13,000 bytes of questions from three different people. So I think stating or implying that Boing! said Zebedee was edit-warring with Fred Bauer over material he himself posted is very incomplete at best, misleading at worst. Softlavender (talk) 06:02, 12 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note from Dax Bane

There's a couple of similarities between this request, and a past case the Committee may want to take note of. While AC doesn't normally follow precedent, perhaps any proposed motion can borrow a couple of principles from the case?
Just my 2c, Dax Bane 05:50, 12 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Serial Number 54129 and Wbm1058: The similiarities I saw in the earlier case and this request was that an Admin had unblocked themselves and was demopped by a 'crat or steward (from what I can tell, this was also an IAR demopping) which was later confirmed by ArbCom. Dax Bane 17:25, 12 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by WJBscribe

How does an RfC into use of

However, I uphold my criticism of Winged Blades of Godric, and believe that he misused his rollback right. Furthermore, I am worried by his comment at ANI (diff):

I understand that using rollback was not optimal but I am very willing to use it liberally, in dealing with extreme stupidity; which this was. (emphasis mine)

This strikes me as

Fred was duly sanctioned for his part in the edit war, but the folks who edit-warred against him seem to be doubling down on their actions, which concerns me. Neither of the people who repeatedly reverted Fred using rollback and Twinkle explained in an edit summary why they were doing so. Future Perfect at Sunrise, to his credit, offered a brief explanation for his action in the edit summary when he reverted Fred manually.

I'm not interested in more sanctions getting meted out - I accept that everyone was acting in good faith - but a general reminder from the committee about the expectations of automated tool use in edit wars would be welcome. 28bytes (talk) 16:01, 12 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by User:Carrite

Admin Rob has identified the essence of this problem in his acceptance rationale: this is really a failure of the system, in that only Arbcom has authority to remove permissions and it is a cumbersome body that would seem to be incapable of making a quick decision on a fast shutdown of administrative rights in a situation like this. There needs to be a discussion about what to do in this sort of situation; software should also be adapted so that self-unblocking is eliminated or curtailed. That Fred Bauder should be losing tools in this fiasco seems too obvious for comment. Carrite (talk) 16:46, 12 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by {Non-party}

Other editors are free to make relevant comments on this request as necessary. Comments here should address why or why not the Committee should accept the case request or provide additional information.

Fred Bauder: Clerk notes

This area is used for notes by the clerks (including clerk recusals).

• At the direction of a committee member I have added Boing! said Zebedee as a party to this case request. I have notified Boing! said Zebedee here --Cameron₁₁₅₉₈ ^(Talk) 20:37, 11 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Fred Bauder: Arbitrators' opinion on hearing this matter <7/0/2>

Vote key: (Accept/decline/recuse)

• Accept whether or not Fred seeks reinstatement of his administrative bit, because I think we need to examine how we respond to situations like this. I'm not interested in blaming Maxim for taking a reasonable action to remove the bit from a sysop crossing obvious bright lines, but we need to examine why the Arbitration Committee was unable to apply Level I in this situation, a clear example of what it was intended for, and what bureaucrats are meant to do in emergency situations. ~ Rob₁₃^Talk 19:39, 11 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • The more I look at this, the more I don't like. I would also like to examine the original block to determine if it violated
    WP:INVOLVED. ~ Rob₁₃^Talk 20:06, 11 November 2018 (UTC)[reply
    ]
  • The resysopping issues should be handled by RfC, Maxim, and I would gladly participate in such a discussion. Until the community decides otherwise, desysopping is ArbCom's wheelhouse. In the past, this means we have set up our own procedures surrounding desysopping. I also believe that we can delegate this responsibility to the bureaucrats in emergency cases without an RfC, just as we delegated other roles of the Committee to non-arbitrators in the past. The Audit Subcommittee comes to mind. ~ Rob₁₃^Talk 20:18, 11 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Accept per Rob. Katie^talk 19:41, 11 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Accept RickinBaltimore (talk) 19:53, 11 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Accept and handle by motion Well, first of all, there's no need to have six weeks of inquiry to unravel the great mystery of "why the Arbitration Committee was unable to apply Level I"; the answer is that
  WP:LEVEL1 was written for obvious emergencies and doesn't apply if any arbs object; I said on the mailing list I'm on board for level 2, don't see the point of level 1 (in this specific instance or in general), and that was taken as an "objection" (fair enough, though it was more of a discussion point than a formal Process; I did also say we should move quickly and would probably have been persuadable to use the faster process despite my general preference for slow-and-steady). So there you go, no need for a case about that.

  As for the actual issue, the core facts here are obvious and not in dispute - Fred unblocked himself under contentious circumstances, that's clearly a misuse of admin tools, Fred should be desysopped. But what has happened is that we're all tripping over ourselves in the hurry hurry rush rush to Do Something and we've repeatedly escalated what is at root a very manageable situation. I am going to stand by the point that "emergency" procedures should be for emergencies. Yes, there's "multiple accounts actively wheel-warring", but that has to mean they are causing harm. In most genuine emergencies - compromised accounts and the like - arb procedures are basically redundant and I am totally on board with IAR desysoppings to stop active damage. In fact I would prefer that the procedure turn that into the R. The "emergency" here was "well, Fred might unblock himself again". Well, yes, he might. The original edit war was about some material on his candidate questions page that he apparently found distressing. Would the wiki have fallen if we waited for another couple of hours to settle that apparently very pressing issue? Erm, no. The key thing about emergency procedures is that they should stabilize the situation pending further review. So - thanks to Maxim for making an honest effort at doing that, but I don't think this was really a necessary escalation; the underlying problem wasn't something that couldn't wait a bit. (I'll push back a little on the "it's Sunday" thing, too - in my book that's an argument to sit on your hands and be patient, not to escalate further.)

  As for the disposition of the case - IMO it's best to just handle it by the motion we were already going to do as a level 2 procedure anyway, but by the letter of level 2 the affected user can request a full case, so I'd be willing to go that route if Fred requests it. While I'm up on my soapbox here, I'll comment briefly on the original dispute - if you don't want someone to be elected, or are skeptical of their platform, fine, but everybody who puts themselves forward is volunteering for a hard job; while we obviously can't have candidates curating their own questions, this seems like it would have been solved with far less drama by stopping immediately after Fred's first revert and asking the election commissioners to review the situation. Opabinia regalis (talk) 21:02, 11 November 2018 (UTC)[reply
  ]
  • @
    Iridescent: true, but if someone responds to level 2 with "you can't fire me, I quit!" then we can treat that like any other instance where an admin resigns in response to a case about their adminship - create a shell of a case page to document the result, maybe do a separate motion to dismiss if the loose ends need tidying, and otherwise move on. @Bbb23: Was it the byte count that gave it away? :)

    I agree with NYB's suggestion below - sit tight for a day or two and let Fred decide what if anything he wants to do, and if he doesn't specifically request a case, settle it by motion. (As an aside, I have to point out that - well, Boing! said Zebedee isn't the one who got us here, but blocking someone you're edit-warring with, over material some of which you yourself posted, wasn't the most brilliant idea either. That was recognized at ANI but really shouldn't get lost here - trout for that one, IMO.) Opabinia regalis (talk) 05:33, 12 November 2018 (UTC) Clarified, though I think the significance is mainly the size of the dinner party that can be served. As for "any reasonable admin", I like to at least pretend I'm reasonable, and I still don't understand how this got to blocks and ANI without any of the multiple usually-reasonable people involved saying "Hey, Fred, why are you doing that?". Once the fire's started, though, on-wiki notifications instead of just answering emails is a good idea. Opabinia regalis (talk) 10:35, 12 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

    @Boing! said Zebedee: Oops. You're right, another email that arrived at the same time was acknowledged, but it looks like yours wasn't, unless someone forgot to cc the list. Fourteen-way self-trout. Opabinia regalis (talk) 10:54, 12 November 2018 (UTC)[reply
    ]
• Accept, handle by motion, per OR. I was asleep while the situation occurred, so I (obviously) didn't see or participate in any of the initial discussions on the mailing list or on-wiki. Speaking with the benefit of hindsight, it strikes me that the wheel warring over the block was contained to a period of about 40 minutes - blocked at 15:10, self-unblocked at 15:22, re-blocked at 15:34, self-unblocked at 15:37, indeffed at 15:47, at which point there are no further self-unblocks. The de-sysop wasn't applied until 19:08, well after the wheel warring had ended. IMO by that point the situation wouldn't have qualified for Level 1, which requires active wheel-warring. Like Rob, I don't think Maxim's action was unresaonable - Fred's actions were clearly a bright-line violation that would require de-sysopping through one measure or another - but I agree with OR in saying that doing it by IAR rather than waiting for Level 2 was unnecessary.
  Unless Fred wants to push this to a full case, I think we can safely finish this by motion - perhaps with reminder that emergency de-sysopping is to be used for situations where people are actively doing harm to the encyclopedia, not just acting rashly. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 23:31, 11 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Accept and resolve by motion instead of six-week palaver - Didnt need the emergency desysop and accompanying drama; does need initiation of a level 2 desysop process by Arbcom. Resolve this by motion per OR and PMC. Also ok to wait a few days per NYB's suggestion, to give Fred Bauder a chance to indicate their views on the desysop that's already been applied. -- Euryalus (talk) 07:58, 12 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Recuse The
  WP:ACE2018 election commissioners have disqualified Fred Bauder as a candidate. Even so, until this matter is resolved, the best thing for me to do as another candidate is to recuse out of an abundance of caution. Mkdw ^talk 01:47, 12 November 2018 (UTC)[reply
  ]
• Hold temporarily. Many aspects of today's fiasco were unnecessary, beginning of course with Fred Bauder's conduct, but we're here. We should give Fred a short time (perhaps 48-72 hours?) within which to advise whether he challenges the desysopping. If he does not, we can adopt a one-sentence motion confirming it. If he does, we would then need to review Fred's statement and decide whether to open a full case or pass a motion in lieu of one. I do not perceive the need for a broader case to address wider issues about desysopping procedures in unusual circumstances; I am not convinced that our procedures for urgent matters should be complicated by even more rules. As an aside to any editors who may be unsure, Fred does not currently hold any other advanced permissions (CU or OS) and is not on the Functionaries mailing list, and he has not been for several years. Newyorkbrad (talk) 01:52, 12 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Accept and hold. There's a lot to look at here, but at the same time, I think it's all clear what happened. I'd need to consider whether this all can be handled by motion, as there have been many individuals who have acted at odds to community norms in this matter. That said, I have no doubt each was trying to improve the encyclopedia / community, following IAR. Indeed, many of the actions, I was seriously considering taking myself - though I was doing my utmost to not break my golden rule of "do not get involved in Wikipedia drama at the weekends". Worm^TT(talk) 11:30, 12 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Recuse Whether or not he's a candidate (and he is now), I'm also recusing. Doug Weller talk 17:17, 12 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]