Talk:Death of Salvador Allende

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This article contains a section called 'Official version of the death' which (apart from being an ugly title) doesn't explain what is 'official' about it. Qwertyus 16:00, 26 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I didn't write it, so I can't speak for authorial intent, but it is congruent with both the version put out by the perpetrators of the coup and with what is now generally accepted in Chile under a restored democracy. - Jmabel | Talk 02:10, 28 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I wrote that originally, and agree with both Qwertyus (it is an ugly title and misleading also) and with Jmabel (it is both the version put out by the military government and the one currently accepted by the democratic government and taught at schools). Mel Romero 03:32, 28 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

witnesses section

In the first sentence: "All sources seem to agree that there at least the following witnesses were present:" should read

  • "All sources seem to agree that there were at least the following witnesses present", or
  • "All sources seem to agree that at least the following witnesses present"
  • ?

In the last section, following the bullet points, it reads, "Some sources missatribute these statements..."

  • It's unclear what statements are being referred to. The statements of who was present, which are represented by the bullet points? Or perhaps the statements in the preceding "Official version" section?

Death of Salvador Allende#Witnesses

--baxrob 14:50, 3 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

For user Baxrob, you're right, the sentence is not proper. I guess I need to polish more the text. I meant that a great number of sources pre-1990 attributed and based the "official version" on the statements of Dr. Paris, when in fact it was Dr. Guijon. Please, feel free to do any grammatical corrections that seem suitable to make the text clear and tighter. Mel Romero 03:32, 28 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

POV on official version

User Moshe-paz has incorporated his own POV into the text, which since I have removed it, I feel the need to clarify my possition. He indicates:

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BetacommandBot 01:09, 2 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

controversy section

please remove "fidel castro referred to it (suicide) as fact." if you read the quotation in the book (partly given in the footnote), you'll discover that it is only meant symbolically, not literally. He is not speaking about Chavez or Allende "killing" themselves, but about the importance of keeping an eye on the military (an action that could kill you), which he tells Chavez is crucial: "You have most of the Army on your side. Don't quit, don't resign."

I can't see how this should in any way mean Castro supports the suicide-side-of-things.-- ExpImptalkcon 10:32, 11 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]


IN addition there should be some background here on the political climate in the country at the time of the witnesses giving reports. there was what is essentially a terror campaign against any and all who might say something against the government. everyone from student activists to political officers to professors were being tortured and dissapeared during the pinochet reign and it was only after his reign ended that they exhumed the corpse and autopsied it.

Odd use of "who" template

"However, few today seriously question that Allende did indeed shoot himself" is marked with the "who" template. I'm not sure what that template even means on that sentence. The alternative would be that no one questions that: obviously, some still do (we've had the occasional person drop by the main Allende article asserting that he was gunned down by those attacking La Moneda). - Jmabel | Talk 04:39, 24 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Indeed, looking at the discussion above, User:Moshe-paz appears to believe just that. - Jmabel | Talk 04:41, 24 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Castro quote on Allende

I removed this sentence from the article:

However by 2002, Castro had changed his opinion on Allende's death confiding that it may have been suicide.

with the reference:

In "Fidel Castro: o: biografía a dos voces (a two-voiced biography), pub. Debate Publishing House ISBN 0-307-37653-2, the Cuban president told Ignacio Ramonet that he told Hugo Chávez: "Don't kill yourself, Hugo. Don't do (sic) like Allende, who was a man alone. You have most of the Army on your side. Don't quit, don't resign." [2])

The original Spanish transcript of the article can be found here and does not bear out this translation. Castro says '¡No te inmoles, Hugo! ¡No hagas como Allende!' which means 'Do not immolate yourself, don't do what Allende did.' However, this does not appear to be a reference to suicide, due to Castro's response to the followup question:

  • "¿Usted lo estaba alentando a resistir con las armas en la mano?" Did you tell him to resist with force?
  • "No, al contrario. Eso fue lo que hizo Allende y lo pagó heroicamente con su vida." No, on the contrary. That is what Allende did, and he paid heroically with his life.

This is consistent with what Castro is quoted as saying in the previous part of the article, so the additional source is unnecessary. 186.105.90.120 (talk) 19:33, 5 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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Requested move 16 August 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Not moved. (non-admin closure) Surachit (talk) 17:30, 23 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Death of Salvador Allende → Suicide of Salvador Allende – His official cause of death is a suicide. ColorfulSmoke (talk) 04:56, 16 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Support - proposed move meets article naming convention criteria
WP:DEATHS and suicide has been officially confirmed, as verified in reliable sources cited in article. IndigoBeach (talk) 13:38, 16 August 2022 (UTC)[reply
]
Oppose – it fails the first step of the naming convention criteria
WP:DEATHS; the common way this is referred to in English is "Death of Salvador Allende" and not "Suicide of Salvador Allende". Dentren | Talk 20:21, 16 August 2022 (UTC)[reply
]
  • Oppose
    WP:DEATHS is not an official policy. Although it has been credited as a suicide, there is reasonable doubt about the circumstances. Additionally, it does sound more neutral to call it "death of" instead of "suicide of" Allende. --Bedivere (talk) 20:28, 16 August 2022 (UTC)[reply
    ]
Oppose "Suicide of" is afaik used for topics where the article is primary relevant related to it being a suicide (for example cases of victims of bullying that became bigger media stories). In this case the death itself is what the article (and sources) is primary about and the investigation about the cause of death is explained. I think we also generally should be careful about placing "suicide" into titles (see journalism codes that we may consider). --Casra (talk) 19:38, 17 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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