Talk:Formalism (music)

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Link to main article

What's the best way to link this and the main formalism article to one another? if searching for "Formalism" one only goes to the main page with no link therein and no disambiguation. --Wspencer11 (talk to me...) 11:15, 17 June 2007 (UTC)Reply[reply]

in the Soviet Union

Why was formalism denounced in the Soviet Union? What was it about the philosophy that clashed with Soviet ideals? -- (talk) 16:57, 15 April 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Excellent question. In fact, there appear to be at least four different definitions offered in this article, before the section about Soviet denunciations. It is not clear to me which if any of these senses is intended but, then, polemics seldom offer clear definitions of terms used to rhetorically bludgeon the opposition. This bears looking into. Thanks for calling attention to it.—Jerome Kohl (talk) 17:06, 15 April 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply]


I came across this term while expanding the article Progressive music, and this article doesn't seem to match up with the definition I found in this book.--Ilovetopaint (talk) 01:13, 8 November 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply]

While I am not prepared to defend this article, which has many shortcomings, I can't help noticing the phrase "as I use the term here" in the book you cite. This is always a good thing for an author to make clear, but it does not help us as Wikipedia editors to come to a more generally applicable definition.—Jerome Kohl (talk) 02:55, 8 November 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I notice you have flagged the lede sentence as "dubious—discuss". Since the lede is meant to summarize the article, do you feel it does not accurately reflect the content of the article? You have already made it clear that you find the entire article problematic (which it certainly is).—Jerome Kohl (talk) 03:03, 8 November 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I think Cotner means that his usage of formalism refers to the theory; to clarify that he's not talking about a "formal" piece of music. When I look at other books related to subject, it seems like they're using the same definition that Cotner uses. It also seems to align with Formalism (art). So, for articles like Progressive music, I'm left wondering where I should be linking to Formalism (art) or Formalism (music).--Ilovetopaint (talk) 20:29, 12 November 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Ah, I see your dilemma. Allowing for the inevitable differences of opinions amongst different writers, I think we are on more stable ground here (as far as music, visual art, literature, and philosophy are concerned) than with some other areas (e.g., Romanticism, post-modernism, serialism). This actually makes the choice for linking more difficult, since there is little to differentiate the articles. In fact, a case could be made to merge at least the three variant articles on music, art, and literature—perhaps also the one on film.—Jerome Kohl (talk) 21:40, 12 November 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I would support that merge.--Ilovetopaint (talk) 07:51, 15 November 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply]


  • Why is the merge discussion for film theory and art hidden away here? Oh well...
  • Oppose They're big enough topics to support distinct articles. Current weak status of an article is not a good reason to merge when the topics support separate articles. Andy Dingley (talk) 10:35, 2 December 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Technically, no merge has yet been proposed. I merely said that a case might be made for it. Still, thanks for your input.—Jerome Kohl (talk) 18:24, 2 December 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Oops! I stand corrected. I see that a notice has just been placed by User:Ilovetopaint. I trust that similar notices have been placed on the other relevant articles.—Jerome Kohl (talk) 18:27, 2 December 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Support As someone who knows virtually nothing about formalism, the current division between Formalism (aesthetics), (music), (film) etc. is ridiculously abstruse. I can't figure out whether they're actually all talking about the same kind of formalism defined at Formalism (philosophy). This current arrangement is very confusing and inaccessible.
Formalism in art and divide it under "Music", "Film", and "Literature" subheaders.--Ilovetopaint (talk) 19:06, 2 December 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply