Talk:Jelly Roll (singer)

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved to Jelly Roll (singer). There is a broad consensus that this article should be moved somewhere, but no consensus on how to best avoid confusion with Jelly Roll Morton. Jelly Roll (singer) was the second choice of multiple people who otherwise sponsored wildly different suggestions, and also most succinctly distinguishes the subject from Morton. Thus "(singer)" will be provisionally used. (closed by non-admin page mover) — Ceso femmuin mbolgaig mbung, mellohi! (投稿) 18:41, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Support. I've just listened to Son of a Sinner and it is unquestionably not rap. The current (rapper) tag is inaccurate. 162 etc. (talk) 16:41, 16 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Oppose as proposed; the suggested title is ambiguous. Jelly Roll Morton is also often referred to simply as "Jelly Roll" and is another historically important musician (jazz/ragtime) with a substantial number of page views. I don't often refer to long-term significance, but that seems to be a consideration here. (pageview data) Dekimasuよ! 07:09, 17 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  If only there were a last name, like say, "Morton", to make the difference between the two clearer... Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 15:03, 17 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  Sarcasm aside, exactly; there is no problem with the title of the Jelly Roll Morton article, because it is naturally disambiguated. That does not make the proposed title here any less ambiguous. Likewise we do not move MJ (South Korean singer) to MJ (singer) even though what it conflicts with (Michael Jackson) is not at the title "MJ". Dekimasuよ! 15:43, 17 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I don't really see it. We're not going to move Cher because Cher Lloyd exists; same idea here. Can you show evidence in reliable sources that Jelly Roll Morton is known mononymously as Jelly Roll? 162 etc. (talk) 20:59, 18 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

He's called "Jelly Roll" throughout the running text of his short biography by Langston Hughes, which starts off with "Ferdinand Joseph Morton, later called Jelly Roll" (much like a Wikipedia article would). He's also called either "Jelly Roll" or "Jelly" throughout the running text of the most famous biography of his life, Alan Lomax's Mister Jelly Roll. He's "Jelly Roll" in Jazz Transatlantic. Going to articles, I only looked at the first page of results, but he's "Jelly Roll" everywhere but the title in "The King of the Underworld: The Invention of Jelly Roll Morton" (Missouri Review, 2012), and I'm sure there are a lot of other academic articles along those lines, considering his prominence. By the way, I have no problem with Jelly Roll (singer) for this article. Dekimasuよ! 06:48, 24 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

We're not going to move Cher because Cher Lloyd exists; same idea here. No we're not. Because Cher is much, much more notable than Cher Lloyd. Surely you don't think this bloke is more notable than Jelly Roll Morton? -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:35, 31 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I don't, of course; my comment was based more around the idea that the rapper turned singer is known mononymously, whereas Jelly Roll Morton is usually known by his full name. I suppose that Jelly Roll (musician, born 1986) is an option, certainly better than the current (rapper). 162 etc. (talk) 16:42, 31 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

That would certainly be acceptable. -- Necrothesp (talk) 09:10, 1 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Can we agree that the term Vocalist should be a better description of Jason DeFord Aka Jelly Roll? ISoldier92 (talk) 03:46, 18 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• "Vocalist" is not typically used, per
  WP:SINGERDAB. 162 etc. (talk) 16:37, 18 May 2022 (UTC)[reply
  ]

• Support
  No such user (talk) 12:09, 27 May 2022 (UTC)[reply
  ]

  I'll note that I've bold moved the Sally Taylor and Naomi articles. As for Sullivan and Swift, I agree that "musician" could be seen as ambiguous. 162 etc. (talk) 23:53, 1 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Support per nom.--Ortizesp (talk) 19:24, 27 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Support – The "(musician)" label seems to most accurately describe his output. In my opinion, a hatnote should most likely be sufficient to disambiguate from Jelly Roll Morton. ModernDayTrilobite (talk • contribs) 03:27, 28 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Oppose. Jelly Roll Morton is a much better known musician. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:32, 31 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Support. As for the comparison to Jelly Roll Morton, compare page views here: https://pageviews.wmcloud.org/?project=en.wikipedia.org&platform=all-access&agent=user&redirects=0&range=latest-20&pages=Jelly_Roll_(rapper)%7CJelly_Roll_Morton

Jelly Roll's page receives much more page views than the article for Morton, signifying that on average, if one is looking for a page on a musician named "Jelly Roll", they are likely seeking this page as it is. Yeehaw45 (talk) 21:38, 4 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• We usually do not depend on what has been popular over a very short time period in order to determine primary topics. I gave a more complete picture in my comment above, which shows that views for this artist have exceeded those of Jelly Roll Morton for less than a year. Long-term significance is one of the criteria for determining a
  primary topic, and by that criterion this artist is not the primary topic. Dekimasuよ! 13:40, 5 June 2022 (UTC)[reply
  ]

  There's also the fact that Jelly Roll Morton has "Morton" in his name. Hat notes should be sufficient. Ten Pound Hammer • ⁽What did I screw up now?) 18:04, 5 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• This was answered above. The location of that article does not change the fact that the title requested here is ambiguous.
  WP:PDAB where the ambiguity of the proposed title was mentioned in the move discussion had page view ratios of at least 50:1, and that is without considering the historical significance of the competing figure in this case. The issue can be solved by using Jelly Roll (singer) or Jelly Roll (musician, born 1986), both of which are unambiguous. Dekimasuよ! 01:35, 7 June 2022 (UTC)[reply
  ]

  As the nominator, I support "singer". Ten Pound Hammer • ⁽What did I screw up now?) 18:27, 8 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Support. The hat note should be sufficient to disambiguate him from Jelly Roll Morton. The helper5667 (talk) 04:09, 19 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]