Talk:Military history of Croatia

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: no consensus. After three relists, there is no consensus for or against moving or about the scope of this article. (closed by non-admin page mover) {{ping|ClydeFranklin}} (t/c) 00:35, 6 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Military history of Croatia → Croatian military history – Since Croats did not have independant country through many centuries, but were still engaged in various wars, I would like to suggest this new title to the article. Franjo Tahy (talk) 12:19, 2 March 2023 (UTC) — Relisting. ModernDayTrilobite (talk • contribs) 14:24, 15 March 2023 (UTC) — Relisting. {{ping|ClydeFranklin}} (t/c) 17:04, 22 March 2023 (UTC) — Relisting. BilledMammal (talk) 00:18, 30 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Strong oppose per

WP:CONSISTENT --- Tbf69 P • T 15:53, 3 March 2023 (UTC)[reply

]

Even now we do not have much consistency, as handful of countries do not even have their own articles. If we take a look at Military history of Europe template, for example there is no Military history of Slovakia and its link leads to Slovak Armed Forces.

On the other hand, if we change the title the way it is suggested, we don't lose any of its current meaning, we just expand it. Franjo Tahy (talk) 15:44, 6 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• Support, conditional on the article actually reflecting the topic, i.e. that is, Croats in war (which includes service abroad, in Venetian, Hungarian and Hapsburg armies), and not merely the military history of the territory now known as Croatia. Walrasiad (talk) 04:26, 4 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment: I'm not sure this is a correct judgement; there is a similar case of
  Communist Party of China being named Chinese Communist Party under pretense that adjectives do not change meaning (therefore of Croatia = Croatian). Croatia has existed as an non-independent entity within various states throughout its history, and for the most part had its own military divisions/troops, and this article is about those. It is not about "Croats in war", if it were, then that would be the correct title for this article. -Vipz (talk) 13:30, 5 March 2023 (UTC)[reply
  ]

I disagree. "of Croatia" implies a territory, not a people. To take a simple example, "Arab military history" is very different from "Military history of Arabia". Similarly, I'd expect "Maritime history of India" to refer to any and all maritime events in the waters around India, even if undertaken by Persians, Arabs, Portuguese, Dutch, French and British ships, whereas "Indian maritime history" I'd expect the maritime adventures of Indian sailors and captains only, even if those adventures are far away from India itself. Or "Soviet space exploration" (exploration by Soviet cosmonauts) is different than "Space exploration of the Soviet Union" (I expect the latter to be dedicated to spy satellites over Soviet territory). Which is another way of saying this article is poorly named, since I don't see references to Illyrian, Roman or Venetian military events in Croatia. This seems to be about Croats, not Croatia. Thus "Croatian military history" is more apt. Walrasiad (talk) 20:54, 5 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

In that case, the title would be Military history of the Croats. However, if we name the article Croatian military history, its meaning covers both of the territory (of Croatia) and Croats as a people in any sense. Franjo Tahy (talk) 15:00, 6 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

All the better then. Walrasiad (talk) 22:48, 6 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• Oppose
  Military History of China exist, we need to preserve consistency with that.>>> Extorc.talk 07:27, 23 March 2023 (UTC)[reply
  ]

Relisting comment: Relist, to discuss whether the scope of this article should be Croats in wars or the military history of Croatia and its predecessor states and sub-states BilledMammal (talk) 00:18, 30 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]