Talk:Social stigma of obesity

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The contents of the Weight stigma page were merged into Social stigma of obesity on 13 June 2018. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected page, please see its history; for the discussion at that location, see its talk page.

The contents of the Anti-fat bias page were merged into Social stigma of obesity on 13 June 2018. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected page, please see its history; for the discussion at that location, see its talk page.

On 7 August 2022, it was proposed that this article be Fat-shaming. The result of the discussion was not moved.

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 12 January 2022 and 3 May 2022. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): C7MP, Rac150, SarahLalevee (article contribs). Peer reviewers: Kgt11, Mirandawesley, Ad1549.

Hi all, I propose that we change the title of the article from Social Stigma of Obesity to "Anti-Fat Bias." In accordance with various fat activists and fat liberation movements, the term obesity is overly clinical and stigmatizing in itself. Additionally, those who are categorized as "obese" in the BMI are not the only individuals who would be affected by Anti-Fat Bias. Those in the "overweight" category also can experience this. I think this is a better title than Weight Stigma as well because it highlights that the stigma is for people who are fat, which is far more explicit than simply stigma over one's weight (which can be a variety of different angles of stigma). Anti-fat bias is a more modern and clear term for what this article deals with, and would be a far more discoverable title for this page. If people feel as though "fatphobia" is a more relevant term I also think that could be considered. The term obesity simply does not coincide with the movement to end fatphobia etc and is seen as a derogatory term by fat activists (and is stigmatizing in itself). — Preceding unsigned comment added by SarahLalevee (talk • contribs) 18:55, 20 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe social stigma against fat people? Discrimination against fat people? Feralcateater000 (talk) 23:23, 20 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I prefer the "social stigma" title, since that is a broader term covering both bias and discrimination (where Anti-Fat Bias refers specifically to bias). The term "fat" is also considered overly stigmatizing in itself by some activists. "Weight stigma" would also include stigma towards those who are underweight, or normal weight, so I think we should only use that title if editors want the article to cover that broader range of concerns. "Fat people" is problematic (People-first language is generally preferable). Fatphobia seems OK but would be confusing for any who are unfamiliar with the term (as it sounds like it refers to a phobia per se). So, I don't currently see a better option here... Maybe "Social stigma of obesity and overweight"? ParticipantObserver (talk) 10:49, 21 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Obesity is a medical condition. The stigma is against fatness, not obesity. We should rename this Social stigma of fatness EvergreenFir (talk) 17:10, 13 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah if stigma against obesity is motivated by stigma against medical conditions it should fall under ableism, which this article implies in the lede but never actually elaborates on the connection - subsets of ableism have branched into their own articles before, such as the discrimination against autistic people article, but fatness contains both the medicalization implied by ‘obesity’ and the other forms of social stigma that this article discusses. Feralcateater000 (talk) 17:41, 13 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

As I understand it, the stigma is both against fatness and against people with the medical condition of obesity. ParticipantObserver (talk) 10:45, 14 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I'm just going to chime in here and suggest another maybe more neutral idea -- would Body size stigma be acceptable to folks? I personally think anti-fat bias is a good option, if it can stick; and if not, body size may stick?

@SarahLalevee Liliput000 (talk) 13:59, 29 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

though "body size" may be too vague and then folks will want to include anti-thin stuff in here too Liliput000 (talk) 14:00, 29 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

"Body size stigma" seems OK to me, if (and only if) we want the article to be broader and include discrimination against thinness/thin people. I'm not completely opposed to that, though it could get clunky. ParticipantObserver (talk) 15:13, 29 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Please see the new section on this page called "Language & Identity." This should offer more clarity on why person first language is, in fact, not preferred, and obesity is a stigmatizing term. Fat appears to be stigmatizing for many as well when used in a derogatory way. Anti-Fat Bias does not do this, and I still feel as though Anti-Fat bias is the best name for this page. SarahLalevee (talk) 01:00, 12 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

This section says that "using the word fat elicits a negative reaction" but does not qualify that with "when used in a derogatory way." My understanding is that the use of the word fat is generally not preferred. I have not seen evidence suggesting that "anti-fat" is better. ParticipantObserver (talk) 14:06, 12 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Sarah! I like the idea of anti-fat bias, too! I think that title aligns more with some of the literature about language preferences and it also is very clear about what the article is about Rac150 (talk) 15:28, 30 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I don't see citations in the new language preferences section clarifying which term is preferred by most fat activists (the discussions are about what some activists think, but the opinions of individual activists should not be given undue weight), nor most people who are overweight (most of whom are not activists). There seems to be a stronger indication that the term "fat" generally increases stigma, and is therefore not preferred. Is there a good secondary source demonstrating which term is generally preferred by those who are overweight? ParticipantObserver (talk) 14:04, 12 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

On re-reading the section, actually there are sources suggesting that the term "fat" is not preferred, and that the term "obesity" is also bad. But the current text does not suggest a preferred alternative. ParticipantObserver (talk) 14:07, 12 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I am not sure if I agree that undue weight shouldn't be given to fat activists. From the studies, it seems as though fat is not a preferred term when scientific studies are done by people seeking to lose weight. This clearly skews the data, as these people likely have internalized anti-fat bias (sure, this could be an extrapolation). No alternative is provided. If all people do not like the term obese (from anecdotal data and scientific studies) and fat liberationists like the term fat but not obese, then doesn't fat seem to be a fat better descriptor for this page than obese? Perhaps we are in agreement that obese should not be used, but you think fat also shouldn't be used and don't see another alternative. SarahLalevee (talk) 14:25, 12 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

"This clearly skews the data, as these people likely have internalized anti-fat bias (sure, this could be an extrapolation)." I would argue against using original research to decide what term we should use. It's not clear to me that the data is skewed, nor is it clear that people with internalized anti-fat bias necessarily prefer one term over another. My point is simply that the language preference research does not seem to provide an answer. If there were a clear preferred term, I'd certainly be in favor of using it.

But to complicate things, many of the sources do deal specifically with obesity as a medical condition. Because research often looks at "obese" and "overweight" in terms of BMI, using the term "fat" in those instances is actively misleading. It seems problematic to use any term other than those used by the studies because that is how the variables are operationalized. ParticipantObserver (talk) 15:18, 12 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Sarah as others have also mentioned I think your title suggestion 'anti-fat bias' is a really good idea. 98.204.69.206 (talk) 21:47, 12 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I'm sure you do — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:A420:45:4C25:9484:50C:9A5A:338 (talk) 20:07, 27 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]