Talk:Thomas the Apostle

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Aramaic Vocalization

I have recently edited the aramaic version of the name, and I wanted to provide some background.

There seem to be two common vocalizations in syriac-script texts: ܬܐܘܿܡܵܐ, used here[1] and here[2] , which would be pronounced [tʔomɑ]; and ܬ݁ܳܐܘܡܰܐ, used here[3] , which would be [tɑʔwma]. In square script, תָּאוֹמָא, [tɑʔomɑ] which is used on behindthename, seems to give the most web results, but תְּאוֹמָא [təʔomɑ] is used here[4] for example.

Because תְּאוֹמָא, ܬܐܘܿܡܵܐ and the greek Θωμᾶς seem to match each other best, I have used them for this page, but any of the other variants could replace them if needed.


ΟυώρντΑρτ

References

  1. ^ https://www.bible.com/bible/1080/JHN.14.5.AII. {{cite web}}: Missing or empty |title= (help)
  2. ^ https://www.assyrianlanguages.org/sureth/dosearch.php?searchkey=4436&language=id. {{cite web}}: Missing or empty |title= (help)
  3. ^ http://www.dukhrana.com/peshitta/concordance.php?adr=2:22570&font=Estrangelo+Edessa&size=150. {{cite web}}: Missing or empty |title= (help)
  4. ^ http://torahofyeshuah.blogspot.com/2015/04/gospel-of-john-peshitta-and-hebrew.html. {{cite web}}: Missing or empty |title= (help)

Thomas as Patron Saint of India

Hi,

This article mentions St Thomas as the Patron Saint of India. Since India is a secular country and doesnt recognize any religions identities. Claiming someone as Patron Saint of India is an inaccurate depiction. The items at below Government site are the accepted symbols of India and whatever else may be someones personal belief and cannot be associated with the country. [1]

There are two sources identified to support the claim that St Thomas as Patron Saint of India 1. Site: http://www.catholic-saints.info/patron-saints/patron-saints-countries.htm: This is a random site without any scholarly or any sort of authority. If such sites are to be taken as source, then Wikipedia will be filled with any kind of fantasy. 2. Second source is Chapter IV of Medlycott, Adolphus E. (1905). India and the Apostle Thomas: An Inquiry, with a Critical Analysis of the Acta Thomae. London: David Nutt. There is no mention of 'Patron' in this Chapter. Please check for yourself at [2] So, it is illegal to call someone a Patron Saint of India, a secular country, with dubious references. Request this reference be removed.

Thanks Arunck (talk) 13:58, 8 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

To say that Thomas is the patron saint of India means that people for whom patron saints are a thing ascribe that function to him. We certainly need sources that this ascription is made, but nobody suggests or imagines that this is a government-approved position. To say it is "illegal" is interesting. What law prohibits people for whom patron saints are a thing from invoking him, in particular, when praying for the blessing and protection of India? --Andreas Philopater (talk) 23:26, 8 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Arunck Is it a legal thing to call someone a patron saint? --99v (talk) 03:44, 9 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ https://www.india.gov.in/india-glance/national-symbols
  2. ^ https://archive.org/stream/indiaandapostle00unkngoog/indiaandapostle00unkngoog_djvu.txt
Are you serious? That's friviolous. The whole "patron saint" is a Catholic/Eastern Orthodox concept. Thereofore, anything that comes after "patron saint of" doesn't lie in legal domains. Anything and everything can have a patron saint, as per the Catholic Church. The Catholic Bishops conference of India recognize Thomas as the country's patron saint. The Indian Union Government has no jurisdiction over this. Ronherry (talk) 16:41, 26 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Patron saint of Saint Thomas school

July 3 2402:8100:2668:EFD8:86B9:3CE2:F1FD:1051 (talk) 02:27, 30 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

This article is highly irritating

This article confuses church traditions with actual evidence established by historians and archaeologists. It uses theologians and their writings as if they were

reliable sources, and there is no clear distinction between primary and secondary sources. The article does not demonstrate historicity, nor does it describe the identity of Thomas within the narrative properly. It does not elaborate on the story that he could be the twin brother of Jesus, as in Christmas being about Mary's supposed divine pregnancy producing two children, which would redefine all of Christianity. It does not describe the origins and progression of the entire India connection. The article is overall very superficial and convoluted. It does not contain references to extrabiblical, contemporary primary sources and no secondary sources properly dealing with those. ♆ CUSH ♆ 08:36, 4 November 2022 (UTC)[reply
]

Agreed. There is way too much of otherwise unsupported direct citation from primary religious texts, primary texts and online religious sources, such as church websites.
Iskandar323 (talk) 08:50, 4 November 2022 (UTC)[reply
]
I also agree. Historicity and religious belief are muddled together in this article. There is not a single objective historical source that states that St Thomas actually landed in Kerala that I could find referenced here. Chronikhiles (talk) 12:53, 24 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The same could be said of any Christian article; where is the state birth certificate for Thomas or Jesus? Trying to put a wedge between Scripture and Tradition is fatuous and points to a lack of understanding of the period. Laurel Lodged (talk) 15:33, 24 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Names and etymologies

"(…) Aramaic תְּאוֹמָא Tʾōmā (Syriac ܬܐܘܿܡܵܐ/ܬ݁ܳܐܘܡܰܐ Tʾōmā/Tāʾwma) (…) Hebrew תְּאוֹם tʾóm." -- what is the significance of "ʾ" here? The t's aren't emphatic in these words. 195.187.108.130 (talk) 15:08, 30 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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