Talk:War crimes in the Russian invasion of Ukraine

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Unreliable sources

I can say that the information in this article is completely unreliable. Even the speeches of the former Ombudsman of Ukraine L. Denisova are used as sources. Who was dismissed from her position, against whom numerous accusations were made in the press. Denisova was accused of "of making insensitive and unverifiable statements about alleged Russian sex crimes". The very name of "Denisova" was simply removed from the text (typed in Latin, while the spelling of Denisova's name in Cyrillic script, which is used in Ukraine, was left). But readers do not know the Cyrillic font and therefore are misled by the accusations of the former Ombudsman of Ukraine L. Denisova. I wrote about it on this page, but I don't see any reaction. The use of unreliable sources is unacceptable, but it is here. 95.25.21.12 (talk) 10:10, 16 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Can you be specific on the reliable sources you are saying are unacceptable. The article currently has 392 references, which one’s are you refering to? Ilenart626 (talk) 11:04, 16 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The use of Denisova's speeches is a symptom. A symptom of the general unreliability of sources. As far as I understand, because the spelling "Denisova" (using the Latin alphabet) has been removed from the text. This is just an attempt to hide the unreliability of the sources. 95.25.21.12 (talk) 11:18, 16 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
WHERE DENISOVA?
"235. John, Tara; Ochman, Oleksandra; Sidhu, Sandi (22 April 2022). "Russian troops use rape as 'an instrument of war' in Ukraine, rights groups allege". CNN. Retrieved 7 May 2022."
СNN journalists tell all sorts of terrible stories about alleged rapes. Refer to whom? To the data of "a national hotline at La Strada-Ukraine",
"Psychologist Alexandra Kvitko, who works on a hotline for trauma victims run by Ukraine’s ombudsman with the support of UNICEF, said she has heard dozens of accounts of conflict-related sexual violence".
Ukraine’s ombudsman - L.DENISOVA.
But who is Alexandra Kvitko? This is Denisova'S DAUGHTER.
I have an opinion that it is unacceptable to use the link number 235. This is false information, for which the former Ombudsman of Ukraine Denisova was dismissed by the Parliament of Ukraine. This link should be removed. 95.25.21.12 (talk) 12:59, 16 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I can continue. It is easy to notice that all sources of the section "Sexual violence" date back to 2022 and almost all are limited to the term of Ms. L.Denisova's tenure as for Ukraine's human rights ombudsman, i.e. June 2022, when she was dismissed by the Parliament of Ukraine. This corresponds to the time when information received from her was uncritically accepted by the American and European media. After her resignation, the flow of information on the topic of accusations of sexual violence against Russian soldiers suddenly drops sharply. This gives the impression that the information previously provided is unreliable. However, this is logical. If you remember that it was for this that she was dismissed from the position of the Ombudsman of Ukraine. 95.25.18.132 (talk) 21:07, 16 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Denisova should be in the article only in the context of how her self-admitted exaggerations and lack of evidence were deemed to have harmed Ukraine internationally, called to account, and played no small part in her dismissal (which itself was a political poopstorm as was her appointment) [ibid.]. This has been known for over a year and should be known to every active editor on this article, but it's been impossible to clean up the constant inflow of garbage on any politicized articles. SamuelRiv (talk) 00:42, 17 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I can only say that this is only one example and only from one topic. My opinion is that almost the entire section "Sexual violence" is based on unreliable information from the former Ombudsman of Ukraine L.Denisova. This is just one example and only from one topic. But this inevitably casts doubt on other information from L.Denisova. Her accusations on other topics are also contained in the article. 95.25.18.102 (talk) 07:32, 17 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nothing, absolutely nothing. I don't see any response. But in fact, it is incredibly scandalous, the former Ombudsman of Ukraine Denisova was dismissed by the Parliament of Ukraine for falsifications and lies in statements. Her false statements have been quoted 10,000 times by Western media. This article is based on these false statements. So what? And nothing. Her false statements continue to be in the article. 178.155.64.26 (talk) 13:16, 12 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nothing, absolutely nothing. That's what I expected. 95.25.19.11 (talk) 20:11, 27 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
What exactly do you propose to add or remove? I don't see anything sourced to Denisova in the article now. Also, it would be easier to communicate if you could create an account. Alaexis¿question? 14:17, 28 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I have already said, you must notice. The entire "sexual violence" section is worthy of removal. 178.155.64.66 (talk) 08:07, 30 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The section is based on multiple high-quality sources and there is an article about the sexual violence in the conflict, so it definitely should stay. If some of the claims there originate from Denisova or from the Ombudsman's office during her tenure, they should be removed, but you should prove it for each such case. Alaexis¿question? 09:04, 30 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I understand you so that you do not read what is written. I have already pointed out the unreliability of information from the former Ombudsman of Ukraine L. Denisova.
For example,
"235. John, Tara; Ochman, Oleksandra; Sidhu, Sandi (22 April 2022). "Russian troops use rape as 'an instrument of war' in Ukraine, rights groups allege". CNN. Retrieved 7 May 2022."
The definition of "high-quality" to such sources can only be understood in an ironic sense. It was for these allegations that L. Denisova was dismissed from the position of the Ombudsman of Ukraine. 178.155.64.66 (talk) 09:54, 30 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Okay, I understand you now. The article indeed references Denisova's post and it was published before her dismissal. The second reference also quotes Denisova. I'll tag this passage to give other editors a chance to look for newer sources. Alaexis¿question? 13:26, 30 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
You should put such labels on all links in this section.
228. "Rape as a weapon: huge scale of sexual violence inflicted in Ukraine emerges". The Guardian. 4 April 2022. Retrieved 7 May 2022.
230. "Sexual Violence 'Most Hidden Crime' Being Committed against Ukrainians, Civil Society Representative Tells Security Council | Meetings Coverage and Press Releases". www.un.org. Retrieved 1 July 2022.
231. Rai, Sarakshi (29 March 2022). "Ukraine opens first investigation into claims of rape against Russian soldiers". The Hill.
We also need to remember about another dismissed - Ukraine’s prosecutor general, Iryna Venediktova.
Of course, you need to remove links to Denisova in other sections. 95.25.21.175 (talk) 19:59, 30 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
38. "Денисова: росСМИ сообщили, что в рф из Украины вывезли больше миллиона людей". www.ukrinform.ru.
39. "Оккупанты принудительно вывезли в РФ 402 тыс. украинцев, из которых 84 тыс. – дети, подчеркивает Денисова". Интерфакс-Украина.
40. "Денисова: росСМИ сообщили, что в рф из Украины вывезли больше миллиона людей". www.ukrinform.ru. 95.25.21.175 (talk) 20:06, 30 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
33. Folmar, Chloe (24 March 2022). "More than 400,000 Ukrainians taken to Russia against their will, official says". The Hill. Retrieved 25 March 2022.
34. Qena, Nebi; Anna, Cara (25 March 2022). "Moscow Has Forcibly Taken More than 400,000 Ukrainians to Russia, Ukraine Says". Time. Archived from the original on 24 April 2022. Retrieved 25 March 2022. 95.25.21.175 (talk) 20:14, 30 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks! I'm a bit busy atm, as you understand going through sources and comparing them to the article text is quite time-consuming. I hope I'll have time later, in the meantime I urge you to open an account and start doing this yourself.
Also, I'm pretty sure that the section itself should stay. Even though some of the more outlandish claims have not been corroborated, there is enough evidence that sexual violence did happen (for example OHCHR and BBC). So trying to remove it entirely will likely get you nowhere. Alaexis¿question? 21:16, 30 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I've been waiting for a reaction for a long time and I can still wait. I hope that you will not forget your promise and fulfill it, at least until the beginning of 2024. I am sharply critical of the current political regime in Ukraine and therefore prefer that Wikipedia articles about Ukraine be edited by people who like this regime. To avoid accusations against me of alleged bias. 178.155.64.26 (talk) 05:57, 31 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
What makes you think I like the current Ukrainian government?
All of us have our biases, as long as you follow the rules you can contribute. I haven't made any promises regarding the exact dates. Alaexis¿question? 06:43, 31 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I am glad that perhaps our views on the current political regime in Ukraine may turn out to be somewhat similar. Nevertheless, I speak on the basis of my editing experience and would like to stick to the position that I have voiced. I hope that you will still perform editing according to the type of what you have already done. For example, when you have enough free time. 178.155.64.26 (talk) 08:55, 31 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
It is quite expected that I did not observe any further reaction. A completely scandalous situation with the content of false accusations in the article by the former Ombudsman of Ukraine - no reaction or minimal reaction. 95.25.12.0 (talk) 10:51, 11 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

any attempt to equate Ukraine to Russia in the article on war crimes is wrong and should not be done

Russia is SYSTEMICALLY is committing war crimes and crimes against humanity in Ukraine. Ukraine investigates it and doesn't tolerate violations by its military while Russia encourages and allows war crimes to happen. this is not like the

War crimes in the 2023 Israel–Hamas war it is completely different. there is only a few reported instances that were even verified on the Ukrainian side while Russia openly talks about its genocidal intent in Ukraine. Monochromemelo1 (talk) 07:55, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply
]

Do you have the name of the Ukranian soldiers punished with war crimes ? Desaibsiaidepikiw (talk) 21:13, 1 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There haven't been any convictions yet but it is notable that Ukraine has launched investigations of alleged abuses of POWs https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-investigating-torture-video/31774747.html https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-11-22/ukraine-videos-alleged-war-crimes-russia-prisoners-makiivka/101682018 while Russia has launched no investigations on war crimes and crimes against humanity it has committed against the civilian population of Ukraine. It would be a false balance to insinuate that. while Ukraine isn't a state party of the Rome statute they do accept its jurisdictions to investigate war crimes, crimes against humanity, and genocide in its territory. and this does include its own soldiers https://www.icc-cpi.int/news/ukraine-accepts-icc-jurisdiction-over-alleged-crimes-committed-20-february-2014 Monochromemelo1 (talk) 21:55, 1 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I can only assure you that the citizens of Russia are absolutely sure of the opposite situation, that the armed formations of Ukraine have been committing numerous crimes since 2014 and bear no responsibility for their crimes. I could give you links to Russian sources. But of course you will not believe them because of the negative attitude you have formed towards Russia. 95.25.12.0 (talk) 10:43, 11 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Even in the war in Donbass the vast majority of war crimes committed were done by the Russian backed proxies and there were only a few verified instances of Ukraine committing human rights violations in the regional war dear IP Monochromemelo1 (talk) 03:39, 17 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I understand you to believe in what you write. But I and other Russian citizens also believe in what I write. That the armed formations of Ukraine commit numerous crimes for which they bear no responsibility. 95.25.12.66 (talk) 05:50, 17 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed. If that’s not obvious for some reason, I believe there are facts and statements by reliable sources cited in this article or easily located to support that Russia systematically commits war crimes, denies them, doesn’t prosecute them, and has committed the vast majority.  —Michael Z. 03:43, 3 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Unless you did the counting, it's only your belief. We call it politely, "original research". — kashmīrī TALK 02:49, 19 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 10 January 2024

{{subst:trim|1= I would like to suggest an update to the attacks on medical facilities, I have been maintaining the page, [[1]] with updates to the UN's data on hospital bombings, which are now above 1400. I don't have any particular attachment to doing this myself, but i feel the numbers have diverged enough from the text here, as so many more have happened, that it almost seems neglectful to understate the problem. Also, i suggest adding years to the Hospital and Medical Facilities section, as there is now 2 March 26ths of this war, and soon to be 3. I have not put in a request like this before, so apologies for any errors.


— Preceding unsigned comment added by Kevin3452 (talk • contribs) 01:28, 10 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Done See [2] and [3]. Gitz (talk) (contribs) 08:52, 19 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 19 January 2024

There is a typo, with "found" having been written as "foubd". This should be corrected.

" Ukrainian investigators foubd beheadings, mutilation and incinerated corpses, and the next day three more bodies in a glass factory, The Washington Post reported. " FakeNoid (talk) 07:24, 19 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Done— Preceding unsigned comment added by The Corvette ZR1 (talk • contribs) 18:36, 22 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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