User talk:Chris troutman

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SMcCandlish's On the Radar

  On the Radar:  An Occasional Newsletter on Wikipedia's Challenges

— "Comments?" links go to OtR's own talk page, not those of the original news-item sources.
According to WashPo, WMF has tapped a South African nonprofit executive and lawyer to be its new executive director. While I've been saying for a decade that WMF has to stop hiring software- and online-services-industry people to run an NGO, and hire NGO people, this one – Maryana Iskander – is rather cagey and bureaucratic, or comes off that way in the interview.
  • First up is a belief that the
    MOS:ACCESS going to be better-enforced? Is Simple English Wikipedia going to be reintegrated into the main site as alternative articles? Is the mobile version of the site going to stop dropping features? Is WP:GLAM going to turn into a bigger effort? There are a hundred ways (sensible and otherwise) this statement could be made to affect policy, funding, and the end "product" (though one suspects nothing important will change for the better unless the internal culture of WMF's organizational leadership also changes in a major way, such as by diversifying the board of directors, toward more academics and nonprofit people instead of tech-industry rich people).
In short, I have hopes that Iskander's NGO background will make for a better exec. dir. fit than that last two we've had, but right out of the gate she's saying strange, too-vague, and even troubling things. And nothing in the interview actually suggests anything like a fix for WP's editorial diversity problem, which the headline suggested was going to be the focus.  — SMcCandlish ¢ 😼  15:48, 15 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
"It is possible to detect eerie echoes of the confessional state of yore", and today's far left is recycling techniques from fun times like the Inquisition." I've been saying this for years, and the article is a good summary of how "left-wing" and "leftist" do not always align with "liberal". It's an observation too few mainstream writers have been willing to make, but the truth of it explains a great deal of disruptive PoV-pushing on Wikipedia. Illiberal left-wing activism is often harder to detect, and harder for the average editor to publicly resist, than far-right extremism, which we tend to recognize then delete on sight.  — SMcCandlish ¢ 😼  18:51, 10 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
An Information Research survey shows that people's editing motivation is often "their desire to change the views of society", and also that they view Wikipedia as a "social media site". This isn't news to us, and the material doesn't have a huge statistical sample, but I would bet real money that it will be re-confirmed by later studies. This has systemic bias, neutrality, and conflict of interest implications (also not news). What we don't really think much about it is what this means for Wikipedia long-term, as everyone with an agenda becomes more aware that they can try to sneakily leverage Wikipedia articles to boost their side of any story, especially after the Trump 2016 US presidential campaign proved that powerful results can pulled off by organized manipulation of "social media" sites (whether WP really is one or not is irrelevant if the public thinks it is).  — SMcCandlish ¢ 😼  23:28, 1 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The 2017 Community Wishlist Survey has closed; the results are here, and as disappointing as in previous years. This process is fundamentally flawed, for numerous reasons:
  • Only the top-ten proposals will get any resources devoted to them, no matter how many there are, or how urgent or important they are.
  • It's a straight-vote, canvassing-allowed, no-rationale-needed, short-term "popularity contest" – normal Wikimedian consensus-building is thwarted.
  • This setup encourages people to vote for the 10 things they want most, then vote against every other proposal even if they agree with it. Proposals cannot build support over time.
  • There's no "leveling of the playing field" between categories. Important proposals of narrower interest (e.g. to admins, or to technical people) never pass, only the lowest-common-denominator ones do – and the most-canvassed ones.
  • Too few Wikimedians even know the survey exists or when it is open, which greatly compounds the skew caused by focused canvassing – the intentional spikes actually determine the outcome.
I've drafted some suggestions for making it work better.  — SMcCandlish ¢ >ʌⱷ҅ʌ<  18:08, 19 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
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Welcome to the drive!

Welcome, welcome, welcome Chris troutman! I'm glad that you are joining the drive! Please, have a cup of WikiTea, and go cite some articles.

CactiStaccingCrane (talk)18:43, 1 February 2024 UTC [refresh]via JWB and Geardona (talk to me?)

Xu Ruiyun, and notability

Hi @

WP:ACADEMIC, but I wish to say that Xu Ruiyun
satisfies GNG, and to quote WP:ACADEMIC, It is possible for an academic not to be notable under the provisions of this guideline but to be notable in some other way under the general notability guideline or one of the other subject-specific notability guidelines.

As for GNG, we have one newspaper article and one book chapter (published in two different books) devoted to our subject. She was discussed in depth in two of the journal articles I cited.

Kindly let me know what you think! Cheers, --The Lonely Pather (talk) 19:12, 28 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@TheLonelyPather: I tagged it after having looked at the sources because I'm not sure about GNG, either. The content about her in the chapters seems to cover only a few pages and I'm not sure about those publishers. The publisher in Ann Arbor is an NGO I've never heard of; it seems the content is someone else's monograph/ memoir. I don't speak Mandarin so I cannot make out the newspaper article. The journal articles, while perhaps editorially-responsible for scientific purposes, contain comments made by the authors which might be true but they don't lend notability. I also don't buy the "first x person to do y thing" concept of notability. I've written plenty of content on academics with similarly-tenuous grasp to notability. I didn't nominate the article for deletion because I doubt the consensus would choose deletion, but still, I don't know that I see GNG reaching that low. Good people will disagree how far GNG stretches. It's a maintenance template so hopefully others with the needed skills and resources can improve it. Chris Troutman (talk) 19:25, 28 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Dear @Chris troutman: I understand your concern and I appreciate you being open about it. I am okay to have the article tagged so others could perhaps have a look at it, as you said. Just one more thing about the book chapter that I want to talk about:
The content about her in the chapters seems to cover only a few pages and I'm not sure about those publishers. The publisher in Ann Arbor is an NGO I've never heard of; it seems the content is someone else's monograph/ memoir: I cited the book published in Ann Arbor because it contains a chapter on the subject originally published in 2000 in a different book. That different book is cited right above it in the "Book chapters" section. I put the Ann Arbor citation just for the sake of public access (I don't have access from the original 2000 publication, but the Ann Arbor-published one is out there on the internet).
I agree with you that the Ann Arbor publisher is quite unknown. I just use it for the particular chapter. Cheers, --The Lonely Pather (talk) 19:38, 28 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Happy First Edit Day!

February 2024 WikiProject Unreferenced articles backlog drive – award

Citation Barnstar

This award is given in recognition to Chris troutman for collecting more than 50 points during the
FEB24 backlog drive. Your contributions played a crucial role in sourcing 14,300 unsourced articles during the drive. Thank you so much for participating and helping to reduce the backlog! – – DreamRimmer (talk) 18:39, 8 March 2024 (UTC)[reply
]

Information icon Please do not attack other editors, as you did in your edit at Wikipedia talk:Requests for comment. Comment on content, not on contributors. Personal attacks damage the community and deter users. Please stay cool and keep this in mind while editing. Users that make ad hominem attacks may face blocking and banning. ☆SuperNinja2☆ 01:38, 11 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RFA2024 update: no longer accepting new proposals in phase I

Hey there! This is to let you know that phase I of the 2024 requests for adminship (RfA) review is now no longer accepting new proposals. Lots of proposals remain open for discussion, and the current round of review looks to be on a good track towards making significant progress towards improving RfA's structure and environment. I'd like to give my heartfelt thanks to everyone who has given us their idea for change to make RfA better, and the same to everyone who has given the necessary feedback to improve those ideas. The following proposals remain open for discussion:

  • Proposal 2, initiated by HouseBlaster, provides for the addition of a text box at Wikipedia:Requests for adminship reminding all editors of our policies and enforcement mechanisms around decorum.
  • Proposals 3 and 3b, initiated by Barkeep49 and Usedtobecool, respectively, provide for trials of discussion-only periods at RfA. The first would add three extra discussion-only days to the beginning, while the second would convert the first two days to discussion-only.
  • Proposal 5, initiated by SilkTork, provides for a trial of RfAs without threaded discussion in the voting sections.
  • Proposals 6c and 6d, initiated by BilledMammal, provide for allowing users to be selected as provisional admins for a limited time through various concrete selection criteria and smaller-scale vetting.
  • Proposal 7, initiated by Lee Vilenski, provides for the "General discussion" section being broken up with section headings.
  • Proposal 9b, initiated by Reaper Eternal, provides for the requirement that allegations of policy violation be substantiated with appropriate links to where the alleged misconduct occured.
  • Proposals 12c, 21, and 21b, initiated by City of Silver, Ritchie333, and HouseBlaster, respectively, provide for reducing the discretionary zone, which currently extends from 65% to 75%. The first would reduce it 65%–70%, the second would reduce it to 50%–66%, and the third would reduce it to 60%–70%.
  • Proposal 13, initiated by Novem Lingaue, provides for periodic, privately balloted admin elections.
  • Proposal 14, initiated by Kusma, provides for the creation of some minimum suffrage requirements to cast a vote.
  • Proposals 16 and 16c, initiated by Thebiguglyalien and Soni, respectively, provide for community-based admin desysop procedures. 16 would desysop where consensus is established in favor at the administrators' noticeboard; 16c would allow a petition to force reconfirmation.
  • Proposal 16e, initiated by BilledMammal, would extend the recall procedures of 16 to bureaucrats.
  • Proposal 17, initiated by SchroCat, provides for "on-call" admins and 'crats to monitor RfAs for decorum.
  • Proposal 18, initiated by theleekycauldron, provides for lowering the RfB target from 85% to 75%.
  • Proposal 24, initiated by SportingFlyer, provides for a more robust alternate version of the optional candidate poll.
  • Proposal 25, initiated by Femke, provides for the requirement that nominees be extended-confirmed in addition to their nominators.
  • Proposal 27, initiated by WereSpielChequers, provides for the creation of a training course for admin hopefuls, as well as periodic retraining to keep admins from drifting out of sync with community norms.
  • Proposal 28, initiated by HouseBlaster, tightens restrictions on multi-part questions.

To read proposals that were closed as unsuccessful, please see Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/2024 review/Phase I/Closed proposals. You are cordially invited once again to participate in the open discussions; when phase I ends, phase II will review the outcomes of trial proposals and refine the implementation details of other proposals. Another notification will be sent out when this phase begins, likely with the first successful close of a major proposal. Happy editing! theleekycauldron (talk • she/her), via:

MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 10:52, 14 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If Jimmy wales isn't completely and utterly ashamed

Do you really, actually believe the bullshit big-pharma/corporate propaganda that's on the Robert Malone page right now? Or is someone paying you or controlling you in some other way to push these blatant lies? YOU ARE EITHER EXTREMELY STUPID, like Idiocracy level stupid, OR A PIECE OF SHIT LIAR AND ACCOMPLICE to probably the biggest and most cowardly crime ever committed against humanity in its entire history.

In these past 10 or so years ESPECIALLY since the covid pangimmick i've watched this wikishittia go from an ok-ish but extremely biased source for SOME forms of information on a few topics, to yet another complete shithole of a mouthpiece for globalist propaganda & lies just like all of mainstream media. If Jimmy wales isn't completely and utterly ashamed of what this has become, he very damn well SHOULD be. Delt01 (talk) 22:20, 20 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks

Sorry you had to get involved in the recent mess on my Talk Page. That's a downside of being a stalker! Mike Turnbull (talk) 11:32, 23 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Michael D. Turnbull: No problem, at all. I'm a stalker by choice. (There's even an award for it!) Wikipedians should be free from harassment and it takes a team effort to enjoy a robust defense. I'm glad for your sake it was some harmless spam as opposed to the hate-filled vitriol our admins get. I don't get much drama on my own user talk so I find a few good watering holes where trouble congregates so I can get my fill when hungry. I've also found that deranged newcomers often think that they're successfully pressuring a single Wikipedian so when help shows up from out of the woodwork the offenders find themselves rightfully chastened. I, myself, enjoy the aid of those Wikipedians who stalk my user talk and I am grateful for that friendship. It turns out that it was me who welcomed you to Wikipedia almost six years ago, and you've been drawing the right sort of attention since then. Chris Troutman (talk) 15:31, 23 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

A beer for you!

Thanks for your help with the edit request on Data breach! Buidhe paid (talk) 18:21, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]