User talk:HistoryofIran

Userpage	Talk page	Awards	Articles	Sources

This is HistoryofIran's talk page, where you can send them messages and comments.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic. New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help. Assume good faith Be polite and avoid personal attacks Be welcoming to newcomers Seek dispute resolution if needed

I wonder who is this. The editing and writing style is too POV and amateurish. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 13:12, 14 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Fylindfotberserk: Yup, there's deffo something fishy going on. A lot of "new" users have emerged these past months with the exact same POVish writing style and editing. I even made some SPIs [1] [2] HistoryofIran (talk) 14:01, 14 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I suspected the same, so I opened up an SPI today, but deleted it after finding an existing case [3]. The pages they created are full of POV, blunt writing and possible SYNTH. I've come across two while checking the recent edits at Gupta Empire, in these two articles, they were treating the empire as 'Indian', but at the same time sent a vibe that Bengal wasn't part of it. There is also proven by the category 'Invasions by India' or something like that used in those articles as well in other articles dealing with regions of Indian subcontinent/South Asia, including Afghanistan. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 14:12, 14 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yup, I fail to see how they're a

networth to this site. HistoryofIran (talk) 17:52, 14 February 2024 (UTC)[reply

]

@Fylindfotberserk: Oh well, I've had enough of them, should have reported them long ago but was lazy, I'll make the ANI report now. If you have any diffs of their problematic edits, that would be appreciated. HistoryofIran (talk) 14:19, 15 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Don't want this auto-archived just yet, commenting for the section to stay. --HistoryofIran (talk) 18:39, 14 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hello @HistoryofIran, Recently, a second phase of War Articles has been initiated by our new Indian users. Could you please take a look at them, specifically including topics such as the Shunga-Greek War, Gupta conquests of Bengal, and Mauryan Khotan Colonization.

The most notable issue I've encountered, which is not a brand new article, is an ongoing edit war with an Indian user. It revolves around the conflict between the Iranic Scythians, also known as Sakas, and the Satavahanas, in which the Sakas/Scythians emerged victorious. However, the Indian user keeps reverting my edits repeatedly. The article in question is titled "Saka-Satavahana Wars." DeepstoneV (talk) 09:32, 15 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hello. Sorry, but that's a lot of topics and issues. I might take a look, can't promise anything though. Worst case scenario, I would recommend using

WP:ANI. HistoryofIran (talk) 14:08, 15 February 2024 (UTC)[reply

]

Hello, examine the editing methods of User:Aryan330, User:Melechha, and Johanrojjashi. There is a commonality among them, and it's evident that Johanrojjashi is not a newcomer. I am limiting the comment as anything we say nowadays are getting distorted, even the old comments. Imperial^[AFCND] 18:55, 18 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Can you please show some diffs that demonstrate that? And no need to limit yourself, don't let them get to you - let them try to distort it, they're just shooting themselves in the foot, as everyone can see the diffs for themselves. Anyways, I have a pretty good smoking gun for the afromentioned meatpuppetry activities, so everything should be good soon, just need an admin to see it. HistoryofIran (talk) 19:31, 18 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

1. Melechha created a wikitable in "

.
2. Aryan and Melechha (Editor Pandit is his socked acc) engaged in edit warring for improving a wikitable in "Maratha–Portuguese War (1683–1684),[6]" with Jonharojjashi making the similar edits shortly after in favour of them [7] [8].
3. Similar occurrences were observed in "Luso–Maratha War (1729–1732)," where Melechha created a wikitable[9], and Jonharojjashi either restored or modified it[10]. Additionally, when Melechha moved the page to a different title[11], Jonharojjashi followed suit[12]. Notably, this marked Jonharojjashi's third edit on the article.
4. The pattern repeated in the ".
5. Daayush (a confirmed sock), Jonharojjashi, and an IP user collaborated on editing "Kanishka" for a common purpose.[15] [16]
6. Jonharojjashi and Msangharak (a sock of Melechha) collaborated on editing "Kanishka's war with Parthia." [17].
7. Indo12122 (a confirmed sock user) and Jonharojjashi engaged in reverting each other's edits on "Muslim conquests in the Indian subcontinent."
I noticed several other accounts during the revision checks, some of which were added in earlier SPI checks. But, I didn't include them as they are not significant leads. Imperial^[AFCND] 04:50, 19 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks ImperialAficionado! HistoryofIran (talk) 14:13, 19 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Don't want this auto-archived just yet, commenting for the section to stay. --HistoryofIran (talk) 01:30, 1 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ditto. The big report is going to take maybe even hours, but it will be worth. --HistoryofIran (talk) 15:20, 18 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Pleased to hear that. Please don't hesitate to ask if you need any help. Best regards. Imperial^[AFCND] 15:31, 18 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks Imperial, I appreciate it. I think I have more than enough evidence (but wouldn't say no to even more), just need to assemble it all together in a reader friendly way as much as possible. I'll see if I can make time for it in the upcoming days. HistoryofIran (talk) 19:45, 19 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Really sorry, so much stuff happening right now, which ends up making me too exhausted to do these type of extensive reports. I assure you I will do this month, I've found even more similar patterns. HistoryofIran (talk) 18:43, 7 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Please take your time, as this task is undoubtedly enormous. I am also gathering many leads. Kindly leave a message when it's ready. Best regards. Imperial^[AFCND] 21:09, 7 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, how are you?

I noticed you reverted my change in the Cambyses II article. I added what I thought was true that the rebellion was started by either Gaumata or Bardiya. You said that the my source (Encyclopedia Britannica) was not so good (which I admit I don't really know what qualifies as a good source) and that the story wasn't necessarily even true and you referred me to the article about Darius and his rise to power.

I read that part of the article, and what it appeared to me was that what I got wrong was that the rebellion wasn't started by either Gaumata or Bardiya but rather the people were rebelling on their own and then unified under Gaumata or Bardiya. Was there more that you wanted me to see in the Darius article and was there something else I was incorrect about? Because it would be a simple switch to say that a rebellion started and united under Gaumata or Bardiya rather than the way I put it which made it sound like they started the rebellion.

In addition, I heard this story on Hardcore History as well by Dan Carlin but I assume that that isn't considered a good source for Wikipedia. PotatoKugel (talk) 18:25, 15 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi. Sorry, I'll try to reply tomorrow. I have a lot of brain fog right now and want to make a proper response to this. HistoryofIran (talk) 22:51, 15 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Britannica is a really poor source (eg [18]), and per the sourced section in Darius the Great#Accession, the figure of Gaumata is indeed made up by Darius. And you're right, Dan Carlin is indeed not a good source - he has a bachelor in Arts. We need academic historians who also have expertise in the topic for this type of stuff. HistoryofIran (talk) 18:52, 16 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, how are you?

Thank you for the information about Britannica. Also, I somehow missed that sentence that Gaumata is widely acknowledged as fake. Thanks for that as well.

Would you agree to the following edit

"In the spring of 522 BC, Cambyses hurriedly left Egypt to deal with a rebellion in Persia which was led by his brother, Smerdis (Bardiya) usurping the throne" or something like this? And is it okay to cite the Darius article as a source? PotatoKugel (talk) 01:20, 17 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia can't be used a source. We can add that if we have a

WP:SYNTH. HistoryofIran (talk) 01:35, 17 March 2024 (UTC)[reply

]

Okay thank you very much. I'll see what I can find. PotatoKugel (talk) 02:01, 17 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, colleague. I half cleaned the article Talish (region) from the flood of low-quality sources or information without sources. I will continue to do this. But I would like to ask you to watch this little part - Talish_(region)#Middle_Ages. Could you suggest sources for the third and fourth sentences there? Everything else (starting with Revolt of 1629, I will look through it myself, since the sources there, if they are, are in Russian). With respect, colleague. Smpad (talk) 21:15, 15 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, that's nice to hear. Sorry, but I can only think of the sources I gave you here [19]. They might have something valuable. HistoryofIran (talk) 23:01, 15 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, colleague. How can Wikipedia give me access to this article - https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/713656178?

With respect, Smpad (talk) 22:27, 24 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Smpad. You can always request a source from Wikipedia:WikiProject Resource Exchange/Resource Request, but I found the pdf here [20]. HistoryofIran (talk) 23:40, 24 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you, colleague! With respect, Smpad (talk) 00:32, 25 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

سلام. ببخشید فارسی می نویسم. انگلیسی م به قدرت شما نیست. امکانش هست مقاله اران در ویکی فارسی را با ترجمه دانشنامه اسلام ویرایش دوم (نوشته ریچارد فرای) و ویرایش سوم (نوشته الیسون واکا) و هم چنین ویرایش اول (نوشته بارتولد) و همچنین ترجمه دانشنامه ایرانیکا (نوشته کلیفورد ادموند باسورث) تکمیل کنید تا دهان پان ترک ها بسته شود ؟ الان مقاله فقط با دائرة المعارف بزرگ اسلامی سر پا مونده است. با تشکر Onusread (talk) 07:00, 16 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Google Translate: با عرض پوزش، اما من خط فارسی را متوجه نمی شوم. و حتی با ترجمه پیام شما واقعاً آن را درک نمی کنم. --HistoryofIran (talk) 18:55, 16 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

برادر سلمون علیکم. در صفحه چوواش دروغ ها و اطلاعات بی اساس زیادی وجود دارد. پاناتورکس آن را اضافه کرد. آیا می توانید به بررسی و حذف دروغ ها کمک کنید؟

Chuvash people 2A02:FF0:3316:8F74:8DDF:2A42:58F:B5AF (talk) 15:28, 25 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Can you review [21] (Scythian vs. Scytho-Siberian) and [22] (representing Ferdowsi and Shahnameh as historical facts)? @

]

I’ll see if I have time to check it later today. HistoryofIran (talk) 17:50, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I reverted the edit about Scytho-Siberian as well, since no sources were provided for it. The page is now protected. Cheers.---Wikaviani ^{(talk) (contribs)} 21:56, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, it looks like the user was cherrypicking and engaging in

WP:SYNTH. HistoryofIran (talk) 22:01, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply

]

Absolutely. What's more, the user is misinterpreting the source he himself cited, as Kansas Bear said at Talk:Central Asia.---Wikaviani ^{(talk) (contribs)} 22:06, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I see. I didn't get to check the source before you reverted them, but I didn't have high expectations, since they were indeed mentioning Ferdowsi behind a citation that wasn't even about him. HistoryofIran (talk) 22:09, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yep, edit-warring to reinstate their edits while

not here to build an encyclopedia.---Wikaviani ^{(talk) (contribs)} 22:19, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply

]

Request

Hello, colleague. Can I ask your opinion for Talk:Forced assimilation in Azerbaijan#Merge proposal?

I created Forced assimilation in Azerbaijan article, so now I plan to reduce Talysh people#In the Soviet Union. With respect, Smpad (talk) 20:46, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Smpad. I'm currently leaning towards with what Buidhe said, but I also want to see what other users say first. HistoryofIran (talk) 22:07, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Сolleague, Aharon Erman broke the structure of the discussion. Is it possible to invite someone to lead the discussion as Felix QW made in Talk:Talyshstan_(region)#Merge_proposal. With respect, Smpad (talk) 22:22, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Also, I don’t understand why there might be a question about coerciveness or voluntariness. The article describes the specific policies of the state (falsifying censuses, creating false official narratives, the state’s refusal to record certain groups of people as they want, etc.) Where is the voluntariness on the part of these peoples here? With respect, Smpad (talk) 22:27, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

To be fair you both did it by keep replying to each other and kinda going a bit off-topic, thus leading to a wall of text and thus

WP:MERGE

explains how. Also, "they" in English is used to as a non-gender substitute for "him/her". It's commonly used in the English Wikipedia.

Where is the voluntariness on the part of these peoples here?

Sorry, I'm not sure I understand. Then again, I don't know that much about the assimilation process of the Talysh in Azerbaijan. I only know as much as I added in Talysh people. HistoryofIran (talk) 22:29, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"Also, "they" in English is used to as a non-gender substitute for "him/her"" - then I was still accused by the uzer of the thing I didn’t do.

Title of the article should come from its content. Goff and others do not describe cases of voluntary assimilation into Azerbaijani Turks.

Also, if assimilation is the entire policy of the state, which uses the practices described in the article, then it is by definition forced (and not voluntary).

"Assimilation of ethnic minorities in Azerbaijan" this is not an adequate title, since the pre-Turkic Muslim peoples were forcibly assimilated, while no such policy was carried out in relation to the Russians, Volga Tatars and many others. We already have Ethnic minorities in Azerbaijan article. With respect, Smpad (talk) 22:44, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

But "Assimilation of ethnic minorities in Azerbaijan" doesn't necessarily mean that there wasn't any forced assimilation. It just means that there was assimilation, what kind of assimilation is then what the article goes into. HistoryofIran (talk) 02:33, 27 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Then such an article should be called simply “Azerbaijanization” and it should describe known cases of voluntary assimilation to the same extent. Then there will be two articles: Azerbaijanization and Forced assimilation in Azerbaijan, the first describing a socio-cultural phenomenon, and the second describing the policies and practices of the Azerbaijani state in relation to its minorities (compare Marriage vs Forced marriage, Prostitution vs Forced prostitution, etc). I have no sources for the first article, but only for forced assimilation. With respect, Smpad (talk) 12:43, 27 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Imo you should make that proposal in the talk page to see what others think. HistoryofIran (talk) 13:54, 27 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

		The Anti-Vandalism Barnstar
		I was given this Barnstar by TheEagle107 but I decided you also deserve this barnstar for your outstanding efforts in defending vulnerable articles and combating against vandalism on Wikipedia. We appreciate you as a member of this community and this Barnstar is well deserved! Ayaltimo (talk) 07:12, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you very much Ayaltimo - my pleasure! HistoryofIran (talk) 12:57, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hey HistoryofIran, I saw your edit on this article and wondered if you had any more information concerning this event? I posted some information on the article talk page, but 2 of the sources are generalized and non-specialized. I would appreciate your opinion on the matter. Thanks! --Kansas Bear (talk) 19:15, 7 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Kansas Bear. This was the best I could find;

"A poem of Sayyid Hasan's refers to the events of 543-4/1148-9 when the Ghurid Saif ad-Din Suri temporarily occupied Ghazna, and records the return of both Bahram Shah and 'the sun of the kingdom Hasan-i Ahmad'." - pp. 105-106, The Later Ghaznavids: Splendour and Decay : The Dynasty in Afghanistan and Northern India, 1040-1186

"The real reason seems to have been that Sayyid Hasan had stayed in Ghazna during the Ghurid chief Saif ad-Din Suri's occupation of" the city, and may well have been ready to accommodate himself to the new regime there, which could have appeared as a permanency. When, however, Bahram Shah regained his throne, Sayyid Hasan deemed it prudent to depart in 544/1149-50 for Nishapur, and it was from there that he addressed to the sultan poems of apology and also the long ode celebrating Bahram Shah's ultimate victory over and killing of Suri." p. 108, The Later Ghaznavids: Splendour and Decay : The Dynasty in Afghanistan and Northern India, 1040-1186

"After quarrelling with his brothers, Quṭb al-Dīn fled to the court of Bahrām Shāh, to whom, according to Ibn al-Athīr, he was related by marriage; there he was poisoned. As the paramount Ghūrid, Sayf al-Dīn Sūrī marched on Ghazna in retaliation, occupied the city in Jumāda I 543/September-October 1148, and assumed the title Sulṭān, but Bahrām Shāh gathered an army in the Panjāb and retook his capital, capturing Sūrī in flight on 2 Muḥarram 544/12 May 1149 and executing him in humiliating fashion at Ghazna. Bahāʾ al-Dīn Sām had meanwhile assumed the throne of Fīrūzkūh, where he continued construction, but he died reportedly of smallpox (bi-l-judarī) at Kīdān, on the road to Ghazna to avenge his brothers’ deaths." - EI3 HistoryofIran (talk) 19:39, 7 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. It appears there is no reference stating "battle". --Kansas Bear (talk) 21:33, 9 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

True that. Seems like we're possibly dealing with an article that shouldn't even be an article to begin with. HistoryofIran (talk) 01:20, 10 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah I'm beginning to think that way as well. On the article talk page there are two sources that imply there was a siege, but I don't feel that is enough to justify an article. --Kansas Bear (talk) 16:13, 10 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've

]

Possible additions to Nader Shah?

Hello @HistoryofIran, once again a great pleasure to be talking to you and hope you're doing well. I was recently looking to make some improvements about Nader Shah's religious policy and couldn't help but notice that a section about his crown (the Kolah I Naderi) cites Axworthy as a source to state that the 4 peak's of the crown symbolised the first 4 Caliphs. However on page 76 of "Sword of Persia", Axworthy says that some "believe that the four points of Nader's version had a religious meaning, but it seems more likely that...they signified the four corners of the territories he aimed to conquer", do you think this can be added as an alternative interpretation about the meaning behind the crown? Looking forward for your thoughts, thanks! Salman Cooper Mapping (talk) 08:20, 8 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Salman, thank you and likewise. The info at Nader Shah might be wrongly attributed. I can check in a few days when I have my own pc again. HistoryofIran (talk) 13:07, 8 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

First and foremost, sorry for mistakenly talking in the wrong place, didn’t intend. Anyway, please take back the revision, because the source I add was just echoing the previous one. Also I found your criticism about the “naming” very simple. The ethnonym Bulgar was never an umbrella term like Scythian, or Tartar. Please consider this. BulgarChanyu (talk) 20:28, 14 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

When I reverted you in my talk page and said "take it to the talk page" I was referring to the talk page of the article. And I was not necessarily referring to umbrella terms. Anyways, please be mindful of

WP:SYNTH, and please show me where the source says that the Hephthalites are possibly of Bulgar stock, because that is what the section is talking about - a possible Turkic origin of the Hephthalites. HistoryofIran (talk) 22:33, 14 April 2024 (UTC)[reply

]

Hushang

Hi @HistoryofIran, hope all is well with you. I recently made some changes to the page Hushang. I wonder if there are any suggestions you can make for improvement. I noticed that a lot of the articles on figures from Iranian mythology are very "Shahnameh-centric" and haven't been touched for years, so there's a lot of room for improvement there. Revolution Saga (talk) 20:51, 14 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Revolution Saga, thank you and likewise. Yep, I noticed that as well. Unfortunately I can't think of any WP:RS right now, I'm not well versed in Iranian mythology and haven't dipped my feet in the topic for years. Perhaps @DeCausa: can be of help? Seeing as they have made the excellent Pishdadian dynasty. HistoryofIran (talk) 22:55, 14 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the kind words - though I'm not sure I'll be much help! I think the bottom line is that the Shahnameh versions of these figures are easily accessible, clearly delineated and well written about. To an extent that's true also of the Tabari (and related) versions. But trying to track back to the Middle Persian texts and the Avesta and match like for like is quite difficult (at least I found it so). I found the Encyclopædia Iranica articles often quite disappointing in this regard. Often they weren't as clear as they could be about which version of a figure they were talking about at any particular point. To an extent, that's inherent because the references in the Avesta and, often, in the Pahlavi texts are quite obscure - although that may be my lack of understanding speaking. I would certainly say that they Pahlavi and Avestan descriptions are the weakest part of the Pishdadian dynasty article that would benefit from someone else taking a look at. Generally, the whole suite of articles on Persian mythology figures is in poor shape and I'd love to do something about it but it seems such a huge task! DeCausa (talk) 23:46, 14 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

From what little I could find, it[Koyulhisar] appears to have been 3 sieges.

• Uzun Hasan besieges the castle Koyulhisar and captures it. 1461 - Uzun Hasan's occupation of Koyulhisar. Translated from Turkish
• Mehmed II sends Sarapdar Hamza Bey to retake the castle, but fails. As a matter of fact, after Uzun Hasan captured Koyulhisar near Sivas in 1461, Fatih appointed Sarapdar Hamza Bey to take the castle, and resorted to this tactic upon failure.In 1461, he commissioned Sarapdar Hamza Bey to capture this castle by suppressing Koyulhisar Bey, Hüseyin Bey, during a hunt, in order to make an expedition to the Greek Empire of Trebizond, but the castle could not be taken back. Translated from Turkish
• Mehmed then besieges the castle using cannons and takes it. "1461 and the Isfandiyari fortresses of Koyulhisar and Karahisar fell that year after bombardment by Mehmed's cannon."

It may be better to move Battle of Koyulhisar (1461) to a draft under the name: Siege of Koyulhisar (1461). Thoughts? --Kansas Bear (talk) 00:18, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Kansas Bear. That sounds like a good alternative that I wouldn't mind either, I'll post it on the thread. HistoryofIran (talk) 12:21, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi. I'm goting to complete the article of Zayn al-Din Taybadi and I can't find any English sources. As you seem to have access to the EI I need your help if you could send me some pdfs on this subject. He was one of the main mystics of the 14th century whose life and deeds has not been dealt with very much. Thanks in advance. Bbadree (talk) 14:08, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Bbadree. Zayn al-Din Taybadi appears in these two prominent works [23] [24]. Does he appear in EI too? If so, can you link it? I couldn't find it. HistoryofIran (talk) 22:50, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Rabia was an Arab woman, I don't know why there is a claim that she was from a non-Arab descent. She was called bint Ka'b aka: the daughter of Ka'b, which is, كعب, an Arab name. She was called Zain Al-Arab, which indicates her Arab lineage. Ibnismail2222 (talk) 15:19, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Please read the sourced Background section as well as

WP:RIGHTGREATWRONGS. HistoryofIran (talk) 15:21, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply

]

One article

Hello bro, I wanted to say that if you can, take a look at Bogazicili edits in the turkic peoples article, he has done a lot of vandalism, even removing the maps that helps the lot of readers in the article!

Even if you have more time better check all recently works of this person Twg7s7h (talk) 15:23, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Twg7s7h. Sorry, but I need more context here, what is going on? And would it not be better to take it up with the user in the talk page of the article? HistoryofIran (talk) 15:29, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]