User talk:Isi96
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Hellstorm (film)
You recently undid my edits to Hellstorm (film) and in your comment said you restored the statement of fact. While the SPLC may be a reputable organization, it is against Wikipedia guidelines for you to decide what is and is not fact. My edit was intended to reduce the bias of the article and represent the fact that your quote came directly from the SPLC. Please review WP:NPOV and WP:FAPO. --skarz (talk) 01:03, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
- @Skarz Ah yes, because a film that insists Nazi Germany was the real victim of World War II and not the victims of the Holocaust is clearly a legitimate documentary. Isi96 (talk) 01:17, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
- I am not here to debate the merits or perspective of the film. I am simply trying to modify the article to represent the fact that the "false claims" is a viewpoint of the SPLC and not Wikipedians. I for one am not well-educated enough to determine what is and is not 100% factually accurate regarding WW2. --skarz (talk) 01:20, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
- @Skarz If you don't know who the victims were, that's your problem. Most of the world, including the state of Germany, do. On the other hand, you should know the name of an article you created, which is Hellstorm (film). You are linking to a dab page redirected from a film named Hellstar. Doug Weller talk 11:26, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
- @Doug Weller Last time I checked Wikipedia was based on verifiable facts and consensus, not things we "know." Pretty sure the page on gravity doesn't say "gravity exists because you can see for yourself." While we're at it, the film documents the 37,000 civilians casualties during the bombings of Hamburg, 25,000 civilian casualties during the bombings of Dresden, and the 9,400 civilians killed during the Allied sinking of the MV Wilhelm Gustloff. Your comment is very unprofessional and insensitive towards those people, btw. skarz (talk) 12:31, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
- @Skarz I know all about those. I can't stop you from making false interpretations of my posts. Or the facts of the case. Doug Weller talk 13:39, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
- @Doug Weller Please review Wikipedia:Talk page guidelines. This conversation is about the documentary film Hellstorm, not your political views.
- @Skarz I know all about those. I can't stop you from making false interpretations of my posts. Or the facts of the case. Doug Weller talk 13:39, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
- @Doug Weller Last time I checked Wikipedia was based on verifiable facts and consensus, not things we "know." Pretty sure the page on gravity doesn't say "gravity exists because you can see for yourself." While we're at it, the film documents the 37,000 civilians casualties during the bombings of Hamburg, 25,000 civilian casualties during the bombings of Dresden, and the 9,400 civilians killed during the Allied sinking of the MV Wilhelm Gustloff. Your comment is very unprofessional and insensitive towards those people, btw. skarz (talk) 12:31, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
- @Skarz If you don't know who the victims were, that's your problem. Most of the world, including the state of Germany, do. On the other hand, you should know the name of an article you created, which is Hellstorm (film). You are linking to a dab page redirected from a film named Hellstar. Doug Weller talk 11:26, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
- I am not here to debate the merits or perspective of the film. I am simply trying to modify the article to represent the fact that the "false claims" is a viewpoint of the SPLC and not Wikipedians. I for one am not well-educated enough to determine what is and is not 100% factually accurate regarding WW2. --skarz (talk) 01:20, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
When talk pages in other namespaces (including userspace) are used for discussion and communication between users, discussion should be directed solely toward the improvement of the encyclopedia.
- Do not @ me again unless it's directly related to the Hellstorm documentary or I will consider it a personal attack. --skarz (talk) 13:48, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
- This is a user's talk page, " User pages are mainly for interpersonal discussion, notices, testing and drafts". My comment here is not a personal attack. Doug Weller talk 13:54, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
- As an administrator your should know that WP:TALK.
- As an administrator your should know that
- This is a user's talk page, " User pages are mainly for interpersonal discussion, notices, testing and drafts". My comment here is not a personal attack. Doug Weller talk 13:54, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
- Do not @ me again unless it's directly related to the Hellstorm documentary or I will consider it a personal attack. --skarz (talk) 13:48, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
- When talk pages in other namespaces (including userspace) are used for discussion and communication between users, discussion should be directed solely toward the improvement of the encyclopedia.
- Your edits on this page have nothing to do with improving Wikipedia. skarz (talk) 14:36, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
- You really aren't familiar with how the talk pages of experienced editors are used, are you. I think you'd be very surprised at how wrong you are. Doug Weller talk 15:03, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
- So you're saying that different rules apply for different levels of editors? skarz (talk) 15:36, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
- @Skarz not at all, it's just more obvious as more editors interact with them. You can always complain about me at ANI. Doug Weller talk 15:41, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
- What is obvious exactly? skarz (talk) 15:48, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
- It doesn't matter. The point is, user talk pages can have non editor or article related material on them. Doug Weller talk 15:55, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
- What is obvious exactly? skarz (talk) 15:48, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
- @Skarz not at all, it's just more obvious as more editors interact with them. You can always complain about me at ANI. Doug Weller talk 15:41, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
- So you're saying that different rules apply for different levels of editors? skarz (talk) 15:36, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
- You really aren't familiar with how the talk pages of experienced editors are used, are you. I think you'd be very surprised at how wrong you are. Doug Weller talk 15:03, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
- Your edits on this page have nothing to do with improving Wikipedia. skarz (talk) 14:36, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
- The fact that you keep insisting the film is somehow a legitimate documentary despite it being made by an open white supremacist is legitimately concerning. Isi96 (talk) 15:02, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
- I actually have not once insisted that the film is anything other than a film. I have tried to add additional material to the page which you have continuously reverted and the clear bias you have demonstrated in your comments is the alarming part. skarz (talk) 15:35, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
I actually have not once insisted that the film is anything other than a film.
That's interesting, because in your edits, you described it as a documentary and added some documentary categories to the article.- Also, in ]
- I actually have not once insisted that the film is anything other than a film. I have tried to add additional material to the page which you have continuously reverted and the clear bias you have demonstrated in your comments is the alarming part. skarz (talk) 15:35, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
- @Isi96 You can call the film whatever you want, I don't care. The consensus from Google search seems to be that it is in fact a "documentary." Find some credible sources stating it's not a documentary and make the edit. This is the dumbest argument of semantics. skarz (talk) 16:17, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
- @Skarz Because of how Google personalises its search results to each individual user, we are not able to see the results returned to you when you search on Google. Can you share the search keywords you used and also some of the results that leads you to believe that there is a 'consensus' there? – robertsky (talk) 01:50, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
- @– robertsky When I search "Hellstorm film" on Google the following websites categorize Hellstorm as a documentary in no particular order:
- Google prominently displays "Hellstorm 2015 Documentary/War"
- Wikidata
- genocidescholars.org
- plex.tv
- letterboxd.com
- IMDB
- avclub.com
- @– robertsky When I search "Hellstorm film" on Google the following websites categorize Hellstorm as a documentary in no particular order:
- @Skarz Because of how Google personalises its search results to each individual user, we are not able to see the results returned to you when you search on Google. Can you share the search keywords you used and also some of the results that leads you to believe that there is a 'consensus' there? – robertsky (talk) 01:50, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
skarz (talk) 05:06, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
- @Skarz By that logic, Europa: The Last Battle is also a legitimate documentary (it's not, it's blatant neo-Nazi propaganda). Isi96 (talk) 06:00, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
- That's not even remotely accurate. When you search for Europa on Google the first two results (the ADL and Wikipedia) both declare it a neo-Nazi revisionist propaganda film. Tons of other prominent media outlets decry it's blatant antisemitism as well. skarz (talk) 06:26, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
- @Skarz But it's also listed as a legitimate documentary on Google search, so using it to claim that Hellstorm is one is a bad idea. Isi96 (talk) 06:34, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
- And using the opinion of some random editor is just as bad. See: Wikipedia:Facts precede opinions. At this time there are no credible sources suggesting that Hellstorm is revisionist or neo-Nazi propaganda. skarz (talk) 06:44, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
- @Skarz But it's also listed as a legitimate documentary on Google search, so using it to claim that Hellstorm is one is a bad idea. Isi96 (talk) 06:34, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
- That's not even remotely accurate. When you search for Europa on Google the first two results (the ADL and Wikipedia) both declare it a neo-Nazi revisionist propaganda film. Tons of other prominent media outlets decry it's blatant antisemitism as well. skarz (talk) 06:26, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
- This is an objective assessment of the sources you have put here:
- wikidata - a sister project of wikipedia, user generated content, therefore not should not be relied upon to build a consensus.
- IMDB - See WP:IMDB. We generally do not use the site for reference or support. (bumping this up primarily because many of the sources you indicated are using IMDB as the source).
- genocidescholars.org - a single paragraph with a link to the trailer. there's no WP:SIGCOVnor critical coverage. This seems to be just a quick republishing of publicity materials... which is duplicate of what is in plex.tv below, and in IMDB above.
- plex.tv - show listing. republication of information taken from IMDB.
- leterboxd.com - relies on The Movie Database for film data, which is also a community site, therefore WP:UGCas well.
- AVClub - powered by IMDB.
- You will have to find other websites other that imdb, or TV/media services to back the documentary tag. – robertsky (talk) 06:45, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
- Take it up on the article's talk page. I really don't care what the "film" or "movie" or "motion picture" is classified as. skarz (talk) 06:47, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
- @Robertsky The argument about sources really should be on the article talk page as suggested, how about at least copying your comments there? Others can of course copy their comments. Doug Weller talk 09:05, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
- Take it up on the article's talk page. I really don't care what the "film" or "movie" or "motion picture" is classified as. skarz (talk) 06:47, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
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