Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive306

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3Kingdoms

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning 3Kingdoms

Appealing user
3Kingdoms (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)3Kingdoms (talk) 02:38, 6 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Sanction being appealed
Topic ban on Arab-Israeli conflict [1]
Editor who imposed or found consensus to impose the sanction
Newslinger (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)Newslinger (talk)
Notification of that editor
[2]

Statement by 3Kingdoms

Yeah I was too hot-headed and edit-warred a lot. I've cooled off and have a firmer understanding of the revert rules. Plus I am under a 0rrr for about another 2 months and than a 1rrr for another three, so I will not be engaging in any wars. I have not had any issues since coming back regarding edit-warring or clashing with other editors. I have no intention of starting any fight over this sensitive topic, just plan to patch up pages and make the odd addition. Since Newslinger has not responded to my request on his page, which is understandable given the circumstances, I am asking for it to occur here. Hope this clears things up. Thanks. 3Kingdoms (talk) 02:26, 6 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

User:Galobtter I get that kind of reasoning. Is there a way to make a compromise where select pages (current news) I do not edit, but others are allowed? If not I get it. 3Kingdoms (talk) 03:22, 6 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Ok. Just to be clear the ban only applies to the topics that have the "Arab Israeli" note? So a page like Peasants' revolt in Palestine that does not have it I can edit no problem? 3Kingdoms (talk) 03:32, 6 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I had a feeling that was the case. Just wanted to clear up so there was no misunderstanding. 3Kingdoms (talk) 04:38, 7 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I am confused by the idea that I somehow broke the my 0rr. Regarding the first abortion edit I explained that I looked through most of the books in question and found them to not say what they were used to say so I removed. I engaged on the talk page here [3] and changes were made. There was no issue and no fighting. Regarding the one on Latin America it was full of editorial language and lacked numerous citations. If one wants to readd go for it. Regarding the removal of the block quote regarding TX V. PA one of the links is to editing from January 2021. So nearly a year and a half ago. Finally I was not aware of any edit-warring regarding these issues. If I did not look hard enough I am sorry. When these were reverted I made no objections and just talked it out. Three different editors have restored my removal here are some pages where that occurred. Mike Bost, Jeff Fortenberry, Cathy McMorris Rodgers. Again I made no argument on the pages themselves. Finally regarding having "disdain" for opposing views I would say that both of us were too argumentative and combative. I believe in letting bygones be bygones. Have a nice day to everyone. 3Kingdoms (talk) 15:17, 8 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I went through all the members of congress and on none of their talk pages was there any discussion about the two quotes removed. Aswell I saw no previous debate in the edit history. So I really do not see how any of the removals were edit-warring. Finally regarding the claim of "nonexistent Consensus" As I have said before, after my edits were reverted (which I did not reverse and instead had a productive talk with the person who did it) a day later my edits were readded by at least three different editors. Since they were not taken down, I felt that this warranted me taking down the quotes on other pages that I had no edited. I understand that people make mistakes so no hard feelings. 3Kingdoms (talk) 21:29, 8 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Newslinger

Comments by others about the appeal by 3Kingdoms

Statement by Aquillion

Looking over their history, I think 3Kingdoms may have breached their 0RR restriction recently; very shortly after being unblocked with a 0RR restriction, they went through a large number of articles to partially or completely remove this text ([4], many others.) That text had been the subject of a revert war (often with IPs) on at least some of those articles; see eg. [5]. The full list of articles would be a massive number of diffs but can easily be seen in 3Kingdoms' edit history. And 3Kingdoms knows this was a past dispute, in a way that makes it hard to imagine they were unaware that they were reverting someone - when challenged about the rationale for removing the text, they cited a (nonexistent) consensus to omit it, which by definition requires that it was added and removed previously. I feel that this is enough to at least seriously consider revoking 3Kingdoms' appeal and re-instating their ban; but it's certainly enough of a reason to not further remove their restrictions given what they did immediately after getting the previous one removed, ie. instantly diving into controversial topic areas and removing massive swaths of text.

See also eg. [6][7] - there are several others; some of 3Kingdoms' first actions after being unblocked with a 0RR restriction and a promise to be less hot-headed were to go down a list of articles (largely related to abortion, Catholicism, and right-wing politics) and remove large swaths of text. I am sympathetic to the fact that for a 0RR in particular we have to be cautious about the "every removal is technically a revert" logic, and I do accept the need to fix similar problems on multiple articles, but someone who just got back from a ban by promising to be less hot-headed and who is now asking for another sanction to be relaxed needs to be on their best behavior. To make these sweeping removals of clearly-controversial content that they could reasonably know had been previously contested, often with no explanation, immediately after being let back in, and then to come to AE and to ask for sanctions to be relaxed further, seems like a bit much. And saying that they were too hot-headed in the past but are calmer now doesn't seem particularly compatible with this.

I will also point out that 3Kingdoms' previous appeal for this restriction looked very similar to this one (they were blocked for revert-warring elsewhere after that), and in the appeal for their first indefinite block, before that, they said essentially the same thing. --Aquillion (talk) 09:09, 7 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Nableezy

The probblem isnt understanding the revert rules, thats the bare minimum of being able to count to 1 or 3. The problem is understanding what edit-warring is, that reverting once a day is still edti-warring, that attempting to enforce your view through reversions is edit-warring. The problem was the total disdain for anybody else's view in any editing conflict. Thats what needs to be shown to have changed, not that he is now willing to count to 1. nableezy - 14:27, 7 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by (username)

Result of the appeal by 3Kingdoms

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

Abrvagl

Abrvagl is formally warned for edit warring. Any further instances, including slow motion edit warring, will result in sanctions. Thryduulf (talk) 14:37, 12 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning Abrvagl

User who is submitting this request for enforcement
ZaniGiovanni (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 10:03, 23 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
User against whom enforcement is requested
Abrvagl (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced
Wikipedia:ARBAA2
Diffs
of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
  1. 14 April 2022 removes sourced information from lead
  2. 16 April 2022 removes sourced information from lead
  3. 29 April 2022 removes sourced information from lead
  4. 22 May 2022 removes sourced information from lead
Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any
If
WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts
)
  • Alerted about discretionary sanctions in the area of conflict in the last twelve months, on 26 January 2022
Additional comments by editor filing complaint

Abrvagl repeatedly tries to remove the 2020 Ganja missile attacks being a response for the 2020 bombardment of Stepanakert from the lead, despite there being multiple sources confirming this, as has been explained to Abrvagl many time on the talk page.

Abrvagl also tries to add expressions of

MOS:DOUBT further down in the article by writing, "According the Armenian sources, Ganja was hit in response to...". Eurasianet is clearly not an Armenian source, and the article leaves no doubt about what Abrvagl is trying to dispute: "The conflict zone in the fighting between Armenia and Azerbaijan continued to expand, as Azerbaijani forces have hit the de facto capital of Nagorno-Karabakh, Stepanakert, and Armenian forces responded by hitting Azerbaijan’s second-largest city, Ganja."[8]
.

The constant

WP:TENDENTIOUS edit even after a month) leaves me no choice but to bring this to AE's attention. ZaniGiovanni (talk) 10:03, 23 May 2022 (UTC)[reply
]

I'm sorry, but what in the hell was this 7000+byte wall of text? For now, I'll just address these accusations against me.
  • ZaniGiovanni previously was warned/banned for edit-wars [58] and personal attacks[59][60]. I observe the same behaviour against me:
You're literally showing my first block when I registered here a year ago and a 72hour block, in an AE case against you, in an attempt to achieve something / browbeat me? I'm so confused.
  • 1. 17:21 I did revert as no consensus was reached. 9 minutes later, at 17:30 uninvolved Zani created a topic on talk-page with +1,879 bytes of text, where he blamed me edit-wars and disruptive editing.
And you were edit-warring and being disruptive, not that it's the first time. That talk consensus is still against you btw, Talk:Melik_Haykaz_Palace#Azerbaijani_sources_refer.
  • 2. Here, I raised issue, as material is not anti-sentiment related. I tried to reach a consensus, but Zani responded: You need to finally read that policy and understand that Wikipedia is not a repository for bullshit.
Honestly, this is getting ridiculous. You pick one of my comments, no not even a comment, part of my comment from an overall discussion and present in an AE case against you for what purpose exactly? Do you think I'm going to walk away my statment or something? Yeah, Wikipedia isn't a repository for bullshit and I made my reference clear in the full comment (hint: extremely undue gov claim).
  • ZaniGiovanni shadows me and challenges edits without solid justification. I put efforts to reach consensus, but it mostly ends with him ignoring or me taking obvious edits to the dispute resolution boards. Here [61] Zani argued against the simple BLP issue. Continued to argue even after BLPN[62]. He stopped only after warned[63]
Another example of god knows what that you already showed in ANI against me that resulted in nothing Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/IncidentArchive1092#User:_ZaniGiovanni. I'm not even going to answer this again. If anyone is interested, please check my first comment in that thread (5th point).
  • Here [64] is another example, where I provided detailed explanation, Zani replied with irrelevant comment and ignoring me since then, although I reminded him a number of times.
Nobody is interested in your baseless opinions about random talk discussions in here, you need to understand that. I don't plan to reply to every
WP:CRUSH comment, and I explained myself pretty clearly in my last comment. You even brought that source in RSN 3 days ago Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard#Hyperallergic
, what is the relevance of it here? Are you just throwing as much pile at me as possible at this point?
  • Here[65] many editors reached a consensus, but due to Zani this simple edit went through DRN[66] and RfC[67]. Zani never commented to RFC, which supports position of majotiry
What the actual f*ck is happening, what is this essay of rants even suppose to mean? There was a discussion, Abrvagl opened a DRN about it [9] and it resulted in an RfC [10]. Now what are you trying to say again, that I MUST comment in that RfC? To be honest, I'm not interested about that discussion anymore and consensus seems to be formed in that RfC. Now why is this something weirdly being brought up against me, hello?
Tbh I feel like
gaslighted by all of these rants against me when I simply showed tendentious edits / edit-wars of Abrvagl and wanted to see a simple and valid explanation. Instead, I received absolute nonsense rants against me in a browbeat attempt and belittling of the actual report against Abrvagl, more than half of those rants were already tried and failed in the past. This editor is too nationalistic for AA topic area, like other editors have also suggested (diff1, diff2, diff3). This rant by them is just another sentiment to it. Sorry for the long comment, most of it was just replies to this slanderous nonsense against me. ZaniGiovanni (talk) 20:18, 23 May 2022 (UTC)[reply
]
I'll address the underwhelming explanations by Abrvagl now:
The statement was added by banned[42] user Steverci. Diff:[43]. Steverci added the statement without consensus: RfC and DnR.
Gross misinterpretation of events. Looking at the RfC, it had no consensus against or for anything, it was literally closed as "Consensus is that this RfC did not conform to WP:RFCNEUTRAL"[11]. This doesn't prohibit users to edit the article (btw a user's ban after 7 fucking months of that edit doesn't
mean anything
, another attempt to belittle something you disagree with) and has nothing to do with the stable version of the article for more than a year that you changed without consensus and edit-warred over a month.
Everything you show below is your attempts of overwriting stable version of the article without any achieved consensus. On their last revert, Abrvagl is casting doubt on a third-party source and attributing statement from it to "Armenian sources" [12]. Clear example of
WP:TENDENTIOUS
edit and this user's continual disruption of the article.
The majority of reports didnot claim that Ganja was bombarded specifically in response to Stepenakert bombardment and cherripicking a single source and presenting it as fact is a violation of WP:WEIGHT/WP:Neutral.
This doesn't even make sense. Do you have a source disputing Eurasianet? The article makes it very clear that 2020 Ganja missile attacks was a response to 2020 bombardment of Stepanakert, "The conflict zone in the fighting between Armenia and Azerbaijan continued to expand, as Azerbaijani forces have hit the de facto capital of Nagorno-Karabakh, Stepanakert, and Armenian forces responded by hitting Azerbaijan’s second-largest city, Ganja.", and you have been explained this many times in the talk discussion. Third party user in talk also disagrees with you [13].
Your misinterpretation of events and unreasonable justifications for your edit-wars and reverts of stable version aren't convincing. Coupled with the groundless and disgusting rant you posted against me below this "explanation", which btw counts as a
personal attack just like all baseless rants/accusations do, I firmly believe that this user isn't qualified to edit in a very contentious topic area like AA2. ZaniGiovanni (talk) 10:37, 24 May 2022 (UTC)[reply
]
WP:CRUSH
, just like with some of their talk comments.
The statement was added by the Steverchi, who knew that majority of the editors are against his edits on Talk-Page, and It was left unnoticed for a while.
This doesn't change the reality that it was the stable version for almost a year and you edit-warred over your changes for a month without a consensus.
The last edit was done after I made a consensus proposal on the talk-page but was ignored for weeks.
When good faith editors provide new sources and ask you to stop with sealioning, you even discredited Eurasianet and accused me of sealioning instead, that's when I stopped replying to you. You then went and changed the article again without consensus. You couldn't remove everything just like previous times, so instead you added expressions of doubt further down in the article by writing "According the Armenian sources". And you still haven't provided a
WP:RS
that disputes a reliable third-party source like Eurasianet.
Reviewing this case, please consider that ZaniGiovanni continuously does not follow civility rules... It is visible even from his replies on this report: "groundless and disgusting rant you posted", "Nobody is interested in your baseless opinions", "What the actual f*ck is happening", and examples I brought earlier. All editors are equal in Wikipedia.
After I adressed your groundless accusations point by fucking point, you're still making accusations against me and taking my quotes out of content? "Nobody is interested in your baseless opinions about random talk discussions in here" - this is the full quote btw, don't you think it's extremely disingenuous to quote me out of context and make accusations based on it? And I explained why with diff, since you were
WP:SEALIONING the issue in that discussion as well. You raised the same "NewsBlog" question even in RSN, where you also received opposition [14]. Going to your second example, saying "wtf is happening" isn't prohibited on this website, we're scraping the bottom of the barrel at this point aren't we? ZaniGiovanni (talk) 10:49, 31 May 2022 (UTC)[reply
]
Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested


Discussion concerning Abrvagl

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by Abrvagl

I NEVER removed sourced information.

1.14 April 2022[15][16] I rephrased the statement. Reverted by ZaniGiovanni[17].

2.16 April 2022, I reviewed the case in details, and identified following:

- The statement was added by banned[18] user Steverci. Diff:[19]. Steverci added the statement without consensus: RfC and DnR.

- Provided sources didnot support the statement. All sources are either primary or just quotes primary sources. The statement is

WP:NPOV
.

Considering the above, I removed the statement, and in detail explained myself on the talk-page[20]. Zani replied [21], but his reply was ignoring my points. So I wrote even more detailed explanation for him [22]. Number of times I tried to get solid justifications and answers to my concerns from the Zani [23] [24] [25], but Zani continued repeating The Armenian sources said it was a response to the Stepanakert shelling, and third party sources covered what the Armenian sources said although I had proved that opposite. Then Zani started ignoring me, and discussions stopped.

3. On 29 April 2022[26] I reviewed case again, ensured that statement definitely violates Wikipedia policies, and removed it again. On 30 April 2022 ZaniReverted edit[27].

4. On 31 April 2022[28] ZaniGiovanni added new source. As new source was supporting the statement partially, I proposed a consensus[29], but Zani ignored me for 3 weeks.

5. On 22 May 2022 I rephrased the statement in line with WP:OR and WP:NPOV and according to last source provided by Zani, in order to reach consensus. Also removed unrelated sources[30]. I left a note on the talk-page[31]. I attributed it to Armenian sources, as an article in the body referring to the Armenian sources.

Then I was going to take it to the NPOV/noticeboard because experts who conducted investigation do not support above statement HRW Amnesty. The majority of reports didnot claim that Ganja was bombarded specifically in response to Stepenakert bombardment and cherripicking a single source and presenting it as fact is a violation of WP:WEIGHT/WP:Neutral.

ZaniGiovanni previously was warned/banned for edit-wars [32] and personal attacks[33][34]. I observe the same behaviour against me:

1. 17:21 I did revert as no consensus was reached. 9 minutes later, at 17:30 uninvolved Zani created a topic on talk-page with +1,879 bytes of text, where he blamed me edit-wars and disruptive editing.

2. Here, I raised issue, as material is not anti-sentiment related. I tried to reach a consensus, but Zani responded: You need to finally read that policy and understand that Wikipedia is not a repository for bullshit.

ZaniGiovanni shadows me and challenges edits without solid justification. I put efforts to reach consensus, but it mostly ends with him ignoring or me taking obvious edits to the dispute resolution boards. Here [35] Zani argued against the simple BLP issue. Continued to argue even after BLPN[36]. He stopped only after warned[37]. Here [38] is another example, where I provided detailed explanation, Zani replied with irrelevant comment and ignoring me since then, although I reminded him a number of times. Here[39] many editors reached a consensus, but due to Zani this simple edit went through DRN[40] and RfC[41]. Zani never commented to RFC, which supports position of majotiry.

Reply 2

WP:BRD. The statement was added by the Steverci, who knew that majority of the editors are against his edits on Talk:2020 Ganja missile attacks#2020 bombardment of Stepanakert
, and it was left unnoticed for a while. However, that was not the reason for my edits.

My point was that the initial statement was WP:OR/WP:SYNTH. Provided sources didn't support the statement at all. Later, Zani provided a Eurasianet article that partially supported the statement, based on which, as I explained earlier, tried to reach a temporary consensus. I did not remove but rephrased my first and last edits[42][43]. The last edit was done after I made a consensus proposal on the talk-page but was ignored for weeks. Only then I made an edit to see if there will be any positive or negative reactions to my proposal. I also left a note on the Talk-Page about that. By the way, I summarized my point on the Talk-Page[44] of the article. It is not for this report, but you can look at it to see the full picture behind my decisions.

I want to assure you that I had no intent to edit war, and my active participation on the talk-page also supports that. Edit wars are disruptive and never help reach consensus, and we should avoid them. I always tried to stick to the 3 revert rule. From now on I will do my best to stick to the one revert rule, to eliminate misunderstanding. However, I'm not sure what to do when another editor is ignoring me or reverting my edits without proper justification.

However, assuming good faith and keeping everything civil is as important as avoiding edit wars. Reviewing this case, please consider that ZaniGiovanni continuously breaking civility rules. He often gives personal remarks and uses hostile language. This creates a hostile environment, inflames disputes and ruins the collaborative atmosphere. It is visible even from his replies on this report: "groundless and disgusting rant you posted", "Nobody is interested in your baseless opinions", "What the actual f*ck is happening", and examples I brought earlier. All editors are equal in Wikipedia. I may be right or wrong; I might make mistakes, which is normal. We are all humans, and we are not perfect. But it does not matter if the editor is wrong or right or makes a mistake; no one has a right to use hostile language and mock editors for their views or errors or past. I find the tone/words that Zani uses insulting. --Abrvagl (talk) 09:27, 31 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Armatura

#diff It seems that user Abrvagl is struggling to grasp the meaning of BLD, simply reverting when he disagrees, even when he already knows there will be disagreement. I would support a warning at this stage (hoping he truly doesn't yet understand well how Wikipedia operates, being a relatively new user) and if he keeps beating the dead horse as he has done here in a discussion innvolving myself, he may need another review. --Armatura (talk) 17:18, 10 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Result concerning Abrvagl

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
  • As far as the original complaint goes, there's two components: allegations of POV-motivated misrepresentation of sources, and edit warring. I'm somewhat inclined toward lenience on the former because it appears that the only source that actually directly states in its own voice that the Ganja attacks were in response to the Stepanakert attacks wasn't added to that claim directly (it was present elsewhere in the article for other claims) until May 1st, after the first three edits listed here; based on the BBC, Telegraph and Armenian news citations present when this dispute started, it is accurate to state that only Armenian sources connected the two events to the degree that the lead did. There are further attempts to discredit the Eurasianet coverage due to its use of Armenian sources by Abrvagl on the talk page. These attempts are a bridge too far: if Eurasianet is a reliable source, we can trust their journalists to evaluate primary sources and synthesize reliable secondary coverage in their own words––that is the whole point of journalism, and their claims should only be superseded by stronger sources (i.e. peer-reviewed publications or a chorus of journalistic sources with more clout), but I don't think that's necessarily sanctionable in itself, in the absence of a pattern of opportunistic exegesis. However, the edit warring is nevertheless problematic, and I would characterize even the early edits as edit warring, as the implicit consensus of nearly a year of silence erases the murkiness of the consensus when the content at-issue was first introduced. Beyond that, I haven't analyzed any of the tit-for-tat accusations made here in the AE discussion. signed, Rosguill talk 03:59, 30 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Abrvagl, I believe I already addressed the status of edit-warring and OR and do not see anything in your most recent comment that changes my assessment. As far as "intent to edit war", 3RR is a bright red line but not an entitlement to revert freely prior to hitting that limit: by May, it should have been abundantly clear that the changes you were proposing were contested and you should have proceeded to seek some form of dispute resolution rather than continuing to revert. I'm undecided on whether the polite accusations and rude expressions of exasperation here (by either of you) rise to the level of meriting sanctions. signed, Rosguill talk 18:02, 31 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Since no one else has weighed in on this, I'm leaning towards closing this with a logged warning for Abrvagl regarding slow-motion edit warring. signed, Rosguill talk 19:53, 7 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Rp2006

The consensus is that the addition of a reference was not a violation. The second edit likely was, but is a very technical and clearly not malicious violation. Rp2006 is advised to use more caution in regards to following the topic ban when editing in areas where it may apply; no other action taken. Seraphimblade Talk to me 22:40, 12 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning Rp2006

User who is submitting this request for enforcement
Geogene (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 23:45, 5 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
User against whom enforcement is requested
Rp2006 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced
Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Skepticism and coordinated editing#Rp2006_topic_ban_(2)
Diffs
of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
  1. 16:22, 14 May 2022 Citing a book by Robert Bartholomew, who is a living person associated with the skeptical movement.
  2. 00:41, 14 May 2022 Rosemary Crossley is a living person of interest to the skeptical movement
If
WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts
)
  • Topic banned by ArbCom from edits related to living people associated with or of interest to scientific skepticism, broadly construed.
Additional comments by editor filing complaint

Also see this relevant discussion on talk page [45]

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

[46]

Discussion concerning Rp2006

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by Rp2006

Statement by Geogene (filer)

Pinging @Firefangledfeathers: and @ScottishFinnishRadish: since they participated in that user talkpage thread I linked to. Geogene (talk) 00:07, 6 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Regarding Diff 1, Robert Bartholomew is a Fellow of the Committee for Skeptical Inquiry [47], Rp2006 has an ArbCom-confirmed COI related to that organization (see finding of facts). Geogene (talk) 03:24, 6 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Regarding Johnuniq's comments here, he has always doubted that GSoW's were involved in promoting themselves (COI). Here he expresses that doubt while coaching
WP:Involved here, based on his extensive and partisan participation related to the GSoW case. Geogene (talk) 06:55, 6 June 2022 (UTC)[reply
]
Here is a diff of Johnuniq taking sides in the relevant ArbCom case [49]. Geogene (talk) 07:00, 6 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think I'm "dragging Johnuniq into this". I think Johnuniq is good enough at finding GSoW-related dispute resolution threads on his own without my help. This thread is his first commen on this page in more than a month [50], and the GSoW COIN thread he participated in was his only visit to that board over an interval of more than a year [51]. What sort of posts was he making there? Defending GSoW [52], [53], [54]. Geogene (talk) 16:05, 6 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by ScottishFinnishRadish

Oh good. I noticed this back when it happened, and reached out to a couple editors that would be more likely to be seen as neutral to see if they would bring it up to Rp2006, and failing that, I ignored it and hoped it would go away, which apparently it didn't. To address a couple of the points here:

  • As I dimly recall, the problem was adding negativity to BLP articles concerning, umm, open-minded people. These edits appear unrelated to that... "Rp2006 has an ArbCom-confirmed COI related to that organization" is not relevant since there is no remedy relating to that. The finding states "Rp2006 has edited biographies of living people without appropriately observing neutral point of view, both negatively for individuals associated as fringe topics and positively for individuals associated as skeptics." It's both negative information against fringey people, and boosting skeptics. Adding an Amazon link as a cite to a skeptics book isn't great, instead of citing the book itself. Per
    WP:AMAZON
    , some users consider it advertising to add such links. I assume it was a wider topic ban since there were issues with both positive and negative editing.
  • Yeah I definitely am getting WP:BATTLEGROUND vibes from the filing and am frankly more concerned about the filing than the edits. and Frankly, I would be a lot more impressed if the filer had pointed out the possibility of it being an error to Rp2006 first so they could possibly revert it and learn from the error, rather than coming right here seeking a sanction. There are three warnings/clarifications linked to in the report, about two specific edits. This included advice to reach out to admins for clarification on any confusion. Is a fourth warning/clarification on their talk page necessary before going to AE without it being seen as
    WP:BATTLEGROUND
    conduct?

They've made fewer than 100 mainspace edits since the topic ban, and at least three of those edits have been topic ban violations. A warning here that they should probably put a bit more care into not violating their topic ban, and clarifying the ban itself would probably be helpful. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 11:43, 7 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by (username)

Result concerning Rp2006

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
The second diff does seem a violation since adding a living person to the see also is definitely an edit about them. But it's quite a minor violation so I don't think anything needs to be done beyond clarifying that the restriction applies here. Galobtter (pingó mió) 03:08, 6 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah I definitely am getting WP:BATTLEGROUND vibes from the filing and am frankly more concerned about the filing than the edits. Galobtter (pingó mió) 02:05, 7 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Спидвагона

Blocked as a sock --Guerillero Parlez Moi 08:24, 16 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.


This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning Спидвагона

User who is submitting this request for enforcement
Nableezy (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 03:32, 13 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
User against whom enforcement is requested
Спидвагона (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced
WP:A/I/PIA

Extended confirmed restriction

Diffs
of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
  1. 00:51, 13 June 2022 (UTC) ""
  2. 21:16, 12 June 2022 (UTC) ""
  3. 18:03, 12 June 2022 (UTC) ""
  4. 17:01, 12 June 2022 (UTC) "Shut up"
  5. 16:12, 12 June 2022 (UTC) "Unrelated. Sources don't mention Kook even once. This is not an article on Kahane. Also bad grammar in caption and unexplained removal of picture. Daveout already took responsibility for edit but Nableezy reverted him with some incoherent edit summary that appears to agree with him anyway. Stop disrupting."


Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any

N/A

If
WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts
)

N/A as a general sanction, but informed here. pretty obviously a sock account, but no matter, should be blocked as an account whose single purpose is to violate an arbitration restriction.

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

Every single edit by this user since registering has been a violation of the extended-confirmed restriction.

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

Notified

Discussion concerning Спидвагона

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by Спидвагона

Statement by (username)

Result concerning Спидвагона

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

73.158.47.129

Blocked; nothing more to do --Guerillero Parlez Moi 08:41, 16 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.


This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning 73.158.47.129

User who is submitting this request for enforcement
talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 19:15, 12 June 2022 (UTC)[reply
]
User against whom enforcement is requested
73.158.47.129 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced
Arbitration motion regarding HazelBasil and SquareInARoundHole
Diffs
of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
  1. 12 June 2022 This IP claimed to be HazelBasil and to be aware of their being blocked, but participated in an AfD about Ashley Gjøvik.
Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any
  1. 11 February 2022 for comments and conduct made both on- and off-wiki, HazelBasil is indefinitely blocked from editing Wikipedia (see also: block log)
If
WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts
)
  • Mentioned by name and sanctioned in the Arbitration Committee's motion linked to above.
Additional comments by editor filing complaint

The IP editor claims to be the article subject, but the article subject is blocked from using Wikipedia. This appears to be a case of block evasion. —

talk) 19:15, 12 June 2022 (UTC)[reply
]

@
talk) 17:04, 13 June 2022 (UTC)[reply
]


Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

19:17, 12 June 2022

Discussion concerning 73.158.47.129

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by 73.158.47.129

Hello, I posted on a discussion page that was directly about me, and immediately identified myself and the ban. As for the ban, I was never told why I was banned other than "offline & online conduct." I was never even told I was even being investigated. I had no notice negative action would be taken against me. In fact i had reported misconduct against me, and the investigation apparently pivoted to *me* at some point. I was given no warnings, ever. My account was in use for over a decade with no prior warnings & only praise. There was no specific ban/block before a wider ban/block, there was no temporary ban before an indefinite ban. was never provided an explanation of why I was banned or how to appeal, or if I could appeal. I was told I was banned from editing, but it was unclear if that meant only editing articles or if that also applied to administrative matters, like an article deletion discussion. The order was vague and overbroad, and I've struggled to interpret it. It does seem quite unfair to prevent me from weighing in on a deletion discussion about the article about me, without explicitly telling me the ban applies to administration discussions as well as articles. In fact, I was given notice and this text box to edit as part of this enforcement notice, which is confusing if I'm supposed to be banned. Why would I get notice or an opportunity to provide input, if i was prohibited from providing input? I worry that I'm violating the ban again by even responding now here. 73.158.47.129 (talk) 19:32, 12 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by (username)

Result concerning 73.158.47.129

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
  • IP blocked 1 week for either block evasion or impersonation. Can be reblocked for longer if it proves static. -- Tamzin[cetacean needed] (she/they) 21:55, 12 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    @
    Mhawk10: Yeah, the "or impersonation" was mostly to save myself the time of investigating when it was blockable either way. I agree that that off-wiki statement is dispositive here. -- Tamzin[cetacean needed] (she/they) 21:47, 13 June 2022 (UTC)[reply
    ]

Seggallion

No violation. Johnuniq (talk) 10:29, 17 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

Request concerning Seggallion

User who is submitting this request for enforcement
Selfstudier (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 18:37, 7 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
User against whom enforcement is requested
Seggallion (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced
Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Palestine-Israel articles 4
Diffs
of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
  1. This edit undoes
  2. this edit of 14:52, 7 June 2022 and
  3. this edit of 16:50, 7 June 2022.
  4. by two different editors.
Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any


If
WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts
)
  • Alerted about discretionary sanctions in the area of conflict in the last twelve months, see the system log linked to above.

Here, the response also indicates awareness about reverts

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

The editor when initially requested to self revert expressed confusion about how one edit was a breach of 1RR. When eventually explained here the response was to blank the page. When given a final chance to self revert here the response was again to blank with edit summary "Did not breach anything. Why threaten like this?".

This pattern may by now be familiar, an editor reaches 500 edits and immediately jumps into the middle of an ongoing content dispute.

Re single revert, my understanding is that a revert undoes the actions of an editor and that if a single edit undoes the actions of two editors/edits then that is two reverts. Admittedly, Wikipedia:Reverting is an essay but it does say "A single edit may reverse multiple prior edits, in which case the edit constitutes multiple reversions." If that could be confirmed as wrong, please.
Shrike, I did not make a frivolous filing, I made a mistake in my interpretation of Wikipedia:Reverting, nothing more. I even linked and quoted it to Seggallion before I filed. I now stand corrected on that point and Segallion has my apologies for making an incorrect 1R allegation.
Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

Here

Discussion concerning Seggallion

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by Seggallion

Why was my name wrong in some sections here?

I made one edit to the article and one edit is just one revert.

I was told by Selfstudier on April 9th to wait until I had 500 edits before more Arab-Israel edits. I had around 400 edits then. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Seggallion&diff=1081780290&oldid=1081732694

I followed instructions and waited. At the end of May I saw a requested move advertised on the al-Aqsa article and I voted on it, just like I voted on other advertised moves. I checked before voting that I met the rule.

The changes to the naming have been opposed by other users too, I have been watching this pair of articles since the requested move.


I didn't wait until 500 to edit the topic. I was told to wait by Selfstudier after I edited a church in April that he thought was in the topic.

I also made a request in January to edit an article in topic I was blocked from. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Ramla&diff=prev&oldid=1065377343

In this month I saw the Aqsa move advertised.


Also fixing errors like

novellist https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Marie_Linde&diff=prev&oldid=1065211857

scheluded https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Pedro_Antonio_S%C3%A1nchez&diff=prev&oldid=1065794748

Borwn https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Abortion_in_Mississippi&diff=prev&oldid=1072564164

Mississipi, not p but pp, https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Nate_Dogg&diff=prev&oldid=1072762154

Is not a game.


Can someone scrutinize Selfstudier's reverts and threat on my talk page:

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Seggallion&diff=1092010968&oldid=1092010433

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Seggallion&diff=1092012794&oldid=1092012058

I felt under the gun with last one.

Statement by Nableezy

That's a single revert, it does not matter how many edits were reverted if it happened in a single revert. However there is blatant extended confirmed permissions gaming, with the overwhelming majority of their first 500 edits being single byte additions and removals. Then their 501st edit is to a restricted topic's requested move here. Curiously, the single byte changes started to pick up steam right around when

this happened. nableezy - 18:42, 7 June 2022 (UTC)[reply
]

Selfstudier your understanding is wrong. A single edit, or a single set of contiguous edits, is by definition no more than one revert. A single revert can undo multiple edits by multiple contributors. nableezy - 19:56, 7 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Iskandar323

It is a single reversion, but by undoing the work of two other editors, it is also in essence a restoration of a prior version. The basic requirement with any revert, not least a restoration effectively rollbacking edits by multiple other editors, is a fairly fulsome explanation of the reasons why it is being done, and "not neutral" does not really cut it. Reversions of non-vandalistic edits need decent comments. And yes, an editor barely off their 500/30 training wheels wading into this particular domain and immediately boldly reverting with laconic edit comments is of course somewhat eyebrow raising.

Iskandar323 (talk) 20:05, 7 June 2022 (UTC)[reply
]

@
Iskandar323 (talk) 04:59, 8 June 2022 (UTC)[reply
]

Statement by Onceinawhile

I would also like to discuss what can be done about 500/30 gaming. Coming up to 500 edits through mass automated / semi-automated / very minor edits is not consistent with the spirit of the rule. This editor made >350 edits in Jan/Feb this year, by finding and replacing common typos. A useful job of course, but the interest in clean-up edits disappears at 500. Onceinawhile (talk) 20:19, 7 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Shrike

First of all the premise of this filing is frivolous the filer is experienced enough to understand what revert is. Regrading the gaming it seems that users has continued to do minor edits in other topics contrary to what claimed here so it doesn't seem like gaming to me --Shrike (talk) 04:33, 8 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by GizzyCatBella

Seggallion, could you explain why you didn't sign your comments above and you formatted the links so poorly? You displayed a deep knowlege of the links formating (note "here" added) back in February [55] and you also nicely signed your comment. What happened? - GizzyCatBella🍁 06:40, 12 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by (username)

Result concerning Seggallion

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
  • Selfstudier, while I can accept your explanation that you didn't understand what did and did not constitute multiple reverts, editors are permitted to remove pretty much anything from their user talk page if they wish to do so. When they do, it is considered an acknowledgement that they have read and understood whatever they removed, but you should absolutely not be edit warring to restore it there. I do not beyond that see any actionable violations here—I will say that I am not thrilled to see an editor jumping into one of our most difficult and contentious areas right at the 500/30 mark, but as it stands there is no rule against that. If Seggallion plans to continue to edit within that topic, I would advise them to tread very lightly indeed before gaining more experience. But other than those general cautions, I do not see cause to apply any sanctions. Seraphimblade Talk to me 20:48, 14 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Zusty001

Two edits with the discretionary sanctions alert issued after the first does not warrant a sanction. Zusty001 is advised to discuss issues on article talk and not repeat challenged edits in a topic under discretionary sanction. Johnuniq (talk) 10:38, 17 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.


Request concerning Zusty001

User who is submitting this request for enforcement
Tgeorgescu (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 14:23, 8 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
User against whom enforcement is requested
Zusty001 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced

WP:ARBCAM

Diffs
of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
  1. [56] Violates
    WP:RS
    which discuss Steiner's pseudoscience.
Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any
If
WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts
)
  • Placed a {{
    Ds/aware}} template for the area of conflict on their own talk page. [57]
Additional comments by editor filing complaint

From the edit summary at [58] they knew they are fighting against

deepity. Or a Gish gallop
.

What does it mean that the meaning of pseudoscience is oblique? What does it mean that it is occulted? Who treated pseudoscience as monolithic and what's the evidence that they did so?

The talk page of the article is crammed with explanations about

in-universe view and no longer know how mainstream science views Steiner. But I once met an important Anthroposophist who was fully aware that the Institute for Beautiful Sciences (Schöne Wissenschaften) sounds completely ridiculous to outsiders. tgeorgescu (talk) 17:42, 10 June 2022 (UTC)[reply
]

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

[59]

Discussion concerning Zusty001

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by Zusty001

SeraphimBlade, my reasons were explained essentially in the comments of the relevant edits. If this is not deemed sufficient, and if these comments can be viewed anywhere (It appears cut off in the public view of the edit), then I do not think I should try strenuously to achieve some victory in a litigatory struggle against a user of this site far more prolific and powerful than myself. I would explain myself more elsewhere outside of this context, but here I will, for the most part, simply note that in the wide array of citations attached to the section initially removed by myself, there are a great many in which 'expertise' or authority is simply not there, even in some academic sense. (The latter part may be the more considerable here. I noted the use of Dan Dugan in my original comment as a particularly striking example, whom is also used as a main and positive, or encyclopedic, source for another section of the article which I have not edited.) I do not regret noting such 'expertise' in quotations, here or in my edit. As for the 'anonymous' edits you note, I should say that they are not my own.

Statement by (username)

Result concerning Zusty001

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
  • sock puppetry. If you would not like to comment here, we'll have to proceed with resolving this without your input or explanation. Seraphimblade Talk to me 21:04, 14 June 2022 (UTC)[reply
    ]

LearnIndology

LearnIndology is indefinitely topic banned from all pages and discussions concerning India, Pakistan, and Afghanistan, broadly construed (
WP:ARBIPA). Johnuniq (talk) 11:13, 17 June 2022 (UTC)[reply
]
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.


Request concerning LearnIndology

User who is submitting this request for enforcement
TrangaBellam (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 09:48, 11 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
User against whom enforcement is requested
LearnIndology (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced
WP:ARBIPA
Diffs
of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
  1. Talk:2022_BJP_Muhammad_remarks_controversy#Opinion_of_Dutch_politician
    - 11 June 2022
    Edit-warring in violation of
    WP:ONUS
    .
  2. Talk:Nupur_Sharma_(politician)#Notability
    - 7 June 2022
    Edit-wars to remove certain content despite opposition by multiple editors (and only one in favor); at last, a longstanding admin had to aware LI, LearnIndology, blanking a relevant and cited section from this article isn't acceptable and Kautilya was entitled to restore them.
  3. Redirecting a longstanding article - 28 March 2022
    I have no qualms against editors unilaterally redirecting articles, as permitted by policy. However I am opposed to misrepresentations in the process; contrary to the edit summary, the article had a news article from Reuters. A cursory search in GBooks or GScholar evidence that the topic has attracted substantial scholarship. The redirect fits to pro-Hindutva POV which deems Cow-belt to be a slang - indeed LI had once sought for speedy deletion on the same grounds.
  4. User_talk:LearnIndology/Archive_4#Serious_warning - 14 January 2022
    Misquotes an author to push POV. Shifts the blame to GSnippets etc.
  5. Talk:Exodus_of_Kashmiri_Hindus/Archive_3#The_Pandit_population - 11 January 2022
    Uses some fringe journal to challenge multiple famed scholars who have been published by Oxford University Press, Cambridge University Press etc. When there ain't any wiggle-room left, comes a strange reply. His shenanigans continue till March '22; see the t/p.
  6. Talk:Raksha_Bandhan#Reason - 25 August 2021
    Uses ridiculously poor sources — an astrologer and a school-level text-book — to edit-war against two editors including me. Their strange replies only compound the issue.
  7. Talk:Religion_of_the_Indus_Valley_Civilization#Attribution - 8 August 2021
    Copy content from different articles to start a new article. Nothing objectionable in such acts except that their copying had selectively omitted all critical remarks which did not pander to a pro-Hindutva POV. My accusations were (later) supported by Joshua Jonathan, a longstanding editor, at Talk:Indus_Valley_Civilisation#Merger_proposal.
  8. Talk:Religion_of_the_Indus_Valley_Civilization#Particular_issues - 9 August 2021
    Claim Jonathan Mark Kenoyer (an expert in the field) to support a particular POV about IVC Swastika being linkable with the Hindu Swastika. I inquire about how exactly Kenoyer supports that claim but they do not expand upon it. As the particular section shows (redrafted by me), Kenoyer states something very different - frankly, the precise opposite.
  9. Diff1 - 8 August 2021
    Choose to insert a POV factoid which is rejected by almost all scholars (see
    WP:BALANCE
    .
  10. Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/3RRArchive437#User:LearnIndology_reported_by_User:Joshua_Jonathan_(Result:_) - 18 July 2021
    Aggressive behavior, dubious usage of sources, and violation of BLP including breaching 3RR. Links provided in the complaint. Upon being brought to the noticeboard, they claimed of a serious misunderstanding! Once again, pushing of a pro-Hindutva POV.
  11. Diff2 - 16 July 2021
    Create a fresh article filled with pro-author (pro-Hindutva) POV. Claims of the book being widely praised are uncritically reproduced from the author himself. More space is allotted for the author's response to various reviewers than for what the reviewers said in the first place!
    See the current version of the article to understand the extent of POV that was pushed in.
  12. Talk:Romila_Thapar#Marxist - 1 February 2021
    WP:POINT
    , misrepresentation of sources, using poor sources - you name it and you will find it being called out by multiple editors.
  13. Talk:Rigvedic_deities#Vedic_period - 7 December 2020
    Pro-Hindutva POV pushing.
Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any
  1. Date Explanation
  2. Date Explanation
If
WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts
)
  • Alerted about discretionary sanctions in the area of conflict in the last twelve months, see the system log linked to above.
Additional comments by editor filing complaint

LearnIndology (LI) is not a prolific editor: they are often inactive for weeks and engages in routine anti-vandalism, maintenance tasks etc. This necessitates a scrutiny into their activities across a long span of time, which might be unnecessary otherwise.

The evidence presented above supports that the losses accrued by letting LI edit in this area — reduction in content accuracy as well as waste of editorial resources in combating his POV-laden activities — outweighs the positives. I wish to emphasize that LI is cautious enough to not run afoul of any bright-line rule but nonetheless, tests the boundaries as evident from the 3RRN example. Multiple established editors — me, Kautilya3, Fowler&Fowler, RegentsPark, Joshua Jonathan, and maybe others — have warned him about NPOV violations but they show little effect.

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

Notified

Discussion concerning LearnIndology

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by LearnIndology

Nearly all of the diffs are dating back to 2020 and 2021 and concern some usual content disputes and some include misleading claims such that I created this article. I find this reporting to be lacking any sense. Though I would still comment on the recent diffs.

WP:CWW. Just compare these two versions: [63],[64]
. Only difference was the creation of more sub-sections and some quotefarming, but that was also insignificant.

The discussion on

WP:SYNTH like your recent edits on this page, let alone justifying them like you are doing
.

ARE shouldn't be misused just because you disagree with some of my edits. LearnIndology (talk) 11:21, 11 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I hope you don't consider any of my edit to be a 'substantial' only when it is made anywhere in your topics. Anyway, I was not engaging in misrepresentation of sources in January as I described here but only interpreted a snippet without having access but I got the access later and no misrepresentation was found. I haven't used snippets since. My last edit to this subject was in March 2022 where I was only providing information that could be backed with other reliable sources. There was no policy violation there.
As for your objection to my attempts to redirect a content fork two times, I think you will understand my position better now because you have also attempted to redirect Gyanvapi Mosque controversy[65] two times in a row. I don't disagree with you reverting but the point is that sometimes there are editors who ignore policies on article creation and only care about retaining the article. But I usually let it go and wait for the consensus when others don't agree. LearnIndology (talk) 07:01, 13 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Abecedare: With this message I was saying that either we should keep statements like that of Dutch politicians and others, or we should only keep statements related to the foreign ministry and the main administration. At that time there was no particular criteria set, and selective removal was not helping in setting consensus this is why I only restored the stable version with that regard. This is not mind-boggling because ultimately the consensus supported my view, contrary to the view of those who wanted to only remove the statement of the Dutch politician but keep statements of politicians who are not even notable.

@Bishonen: There is clearly no doubt that I did a number of mistakes at Romila Thapar dispute in Feb 2021 but I learned a lot from that and have made more than 1,300 edits since. By saying "per discussion" on this edit summary I was talking about this discussion where I had mentioned the sources. While there was a content dispute at the Religion of the IVC article, I was correct with each of my messages there as it can be read here but TrangaBellam's main objection was that the article is a POV fork and should be a redirect.[66] The ultimate consensus was against this view. LearnIndology (talk) 01:16, 16 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I note severe misrepresentation of sources by TrangaBellam here. TB cited a diff where I debunked TB's misrepresentation of Hiltebeitel and TB never recognized this misrepresentation. On this discussion, I cited this source which said "seal in the shape of a stepped cross has a swastika motif in the center combining both the stepped cross motif and the well-known swastika design", and Trangabellam asks me "How is Kenoyer supporting your hypothesis?" That means TB never read the source. TrangaBellam has failed to cite this discussion where he was answered with this source and he made no response to that message. Yet TB cites this outdated dispute on this report and pushes the same false claim as if TB was never introduced to the contradictory.
TrangaBellam is also misrepresenting the writings of Behera when the quote clearly says that "Census figures are quoted to indicate that the community is facing virtual extinction: in 1947 the Pandits constituted 15 percent of the Valley’s population, which fell to 5 percent by 1981, and after the exodus to 0.1 percent." To use this quotation to claim it to be "KP's representation of their own history" but not the existence of a Census figure is just a misrepresenation of source. This misrepresentation comes after another additional verification cited on the same discussion which said "The NHRC reported that the Pandit population in Jammu and Kashmir dropped from 15 percent in 1941 to 0.1 percent during the year."
Given these 2 instances alone, I am sure that TrangaBellam is clearly not in position to accurately interpret the sources. LearnIndology (talk) 05:37, 16 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
TrangaBellam you never talked about how "Kenoyer supports a link between Hindu swastika and IVC swastika". You are doing it for the first time on this noticeboard. Your actual message on the talk page was asking "If sources draw distinct links between Hindu Swastika and IVC Swastika", after which I cited this source along with p.10 because it said "Based on comparisons with later uses in South Asia in Buddhist, Jain and
Brahmanical rituals, the symbol of the swastika represent order out of chaos. The chaos of the world is divided into four quarters and turned either to the right or the left. Where there is order, there is wealth and profit, and in South Asia, the swastika is associated with good luck and various deities that bring wealth, such as Ganesha and Saraswati." Drawing a link is not the same as being supportive of the hypothesis. LearnIndology (talk) 07:23, 16 June 2022 (UTC)[reply
]
What you are quoting now is nothing new since this information already exists on the main article's section since that same day.[67] Can you show me where I objected to this wording? Your recent message still doesn't change that we were talking about sources that are drawing a connection, instead of supporting the specific connection. You can't claim the latter to misrepresent my response. LearnIndology (talk) 08:38, 16 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Post-filing statements and responses by TrangaBellam

  • LI, I see that you have not chosen to discuss your mis-representation of sources about the Kashmir Exodus etc., which happened as late as March '22.
    You stake in about one substantial edit per month, excluding vandalism and routine maintenance; that invokes the necessity to examine your edits from a year ago. Every time you get a warning — Kautilya3 noted in March that he will take you to AE, shall such misrepresentation of source reoccur — you take a break from volatile areas for a couple of months and then start a new mess. Once that becomes too hot to manage, you remain low for another couple of months. This is an obvious gaming of the system because by the time, someone can get substantial evidence of disruption against you, they have become too old.
    You reverted Onel's redirect of the article and added content. Technically, not a creation but practically it is.
    My invocation of the content-deletion from 2022 Muhammad controversy concerns your edit-warring under what appears to be quite-spurious grounds, as rightfully held by a completely uninvolved admin. Even if you are right on the specifics, that does not excuse your edit-warring etc.
    This thread is not about me; if you have issues with my editing, please raise them at an appropriate venue (ANI/AE/..). Thanks, TrangaBellam (talk) 12:39, 11 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Abecedare:
Re 8:
  • On 9 August 2021, LI claims that Jonathan Mark Kenoyer, an expert on Indus Valley civilization supports that IVC swastikas became Hindu swastikas, an argument commonly found in Hindutva circles. [Kenoyer is the first of the links cited by him: the pdf.]
  • I critique his other sources and ask him to explain how the particular source of Kenoyer supported LI's conclusion. Because the cited pdf did not have anything to such effects.
  • LI's reply is evasive.
  • I knew for certain that this was a fringe argument and doubted that Kenoyer was gullible enough to lend his support to such a fringe claim. Not very surprisingly, I found a source where Kenoyer expressly held that IVC swastikas were appropriated by political and religious leaders of the subcontinent to [claim ties with Hinduism.
  • All in all, again the same pattern of misrepresenting sources until being called out.
Re 5:
  • I have not mentioned another aspect.
  • LI's second source is a trade-book of considerable repute (Behera; BUP) but once again, LI misrepresents the content. The passage in the book (p. 125) goes:
  • The Kashmiri Pandits provide an important illustration of a community’s attempts to reconstruct history in view of its present political interests. Describing themselves as the original inhabitants of the Valley with a distinct subculture of the purest class of Aryans, the Pandits recount episodes of religious, linguistic, and political persecution by Muslim rulers over the past 650 years. Census figures are quoted to indicate that the community is facing virtual extinction: in 1947 the Pandits constituted 15 percent of the Valley’s population, which fell to 5 percent by 1981, and after the exodus to 0.1 percent. [Endnote 126]

    [Endnote 126] (p. 312): Rasgotra argues that 1941 marks the beginning of a statistical assault on the Pandit numbers by the junior local Muslim officials, who underestimated the strength of the Pandits by nearly 10–15 percent [..] For a good account of the politics of numbers, see Alexander Evans, “A Departure from History: Kashmiri Pandits, 1999–2001,” Contemporary South Asia 11, no. 1 (2002): 23–27

  • As is obvious, Behera does not claim that KPs constituted 15% of the population; she notes these observations in the context of KP's representation of their own history.
  • All in all, we have usage of a very poor source + misrepresentation of source. TrangaBellam (talk) 04:34, 16 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
LI's latest justification of his usage of Behera only proves my point - I leave it to Bish/Abecedare to determine whether my accusations hold merit or not.
LI, you didn't debunk anything; I had cited Hiltebeitel (2017). Your insistence that Kenoyer supports a link between Hindu swastika and IVC swastika is amazing - once again, I leave it to Bish/Abecedare to determine whether the quoted line supports such an extrapolation. TrangaBellam (talk) 06:00, 16 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
LI, you continue to misrepresent Kenoyer by selectively quoting him, misunderstanding him, and engaging in semantic gymnastics. How is "[does] Kenoyer support a link between Hindu swastika and IVC swastika" different to "[do] sources draw distinct links between Hindu Swastika and IVC Swastika"?
The very preceding line goes, [h]owever, its specific meaning may have been quite different in each world region. The very next paragraph has, The swastika is not associated with any single religious tradition and was widely used by many different cultures which are in no way linked to Aryan traditions or religion. [..] These examples should be taken as a cautionary note to avoid projecting modern meaning onto ancient symbols without taking into account cultural, ideological and social contexts. In the lines you quote, Kenoyer speculates a possible meaning of Swastika in the IVC culture based on its meanings in later S. Asian traditions but also warns several times about the pitfalls of such an approach; obviously he does not "draw any distinct links between them". More interestingly, as currently cited in the article, Kenoyer notes Hindu politicians of having appropriated IVC artefacts which evidences that your conclusions were obviously wrong.
Have the last word but remember the law of holes. TrangaBellam (talk) 07:43, 16 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@Abecedare:, if you need more evidence, see this edit at Lohri during Jan' 22. A factoid about Lohri being dedicated to gods Indra, Agni, Surya and Lakshmi was introduced at the second line (!) of the lead sourced from a NON-HISTRS. This used to have a surreptitious presence at the infobox before LI jumped in.
Coincidentally or otherwise, scholars (Berti et al; consult works on ABISY) have documented Hindutva-tinted historians to have made efforts in appropriating all sorts of folk-festivals under a pan-Hindu banner and reify a Brahminic origin story while rejecting the multiplicity of subaltern legends that usually surround them. TrangaBellam (talk) 18:16, 16 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Fwiw, if LI is T-Banned from India, that will not allow him to edit nine out of the ten articles. Culture of Kashmir, Srinagar, Kalash People, Kashmiris, Exodus of Kashmiri Hindus, Religion of the Indus Valley Civilization, Religion in the Punjab, Himachal Pradesh, and Rohit Sardana - everything will be off limit. Himalayas will be a borderline case depending on the content of edits.
Even if a narrow topic ban concerning "politics, history, and culture of S. Asia" (or something like that) is imposed, the same situation prevails roughly. TrangaBellam (talk) 18:41, 16 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Vanamonde

Responding to Abecedare's ping. I do not recall whether I have interacted with LI in a non-administrative capacity. I'm traveling and have limited internet, so I cannot research it either; so I'm posting here, out of an abundance of caution. I find numerous diffs here to be seriously concerning. This diff (The Mughal Harem) is appalling; in an experienced editor, that alone would be something I'd recommend sanctions for. The double standards on display here (Nupur Sharma's remarks) equally so. I recall some of the dispute about links between the IVC and Hinduism; the diffs here substantiate my memory that LI was more interested in digging up any source that supported what he wanted to see, rather than dispassionately summarizing the sources. A similar problem is evident here (Raksha Bandhan); I would guess, though I cannot be sure, that LI began be googling the sentence he wished to add to the article, rather than by reading the best sources about the subject.
Given that this is a long-term issue, with innumerable warnings along the way, a TBAN seems very necessary. I see the crux of the issue being the application of the labels "Hindu" and "Indian" to various aspects of culture and history; but I don't see a clean way to delineate a TBAN around those. I believe any of the proposed TBANs ought to work, but my recommendation would be "history and politics within ARBIPA". I don't think the line around history is very fuzzy in this case; conversely, the Indian-not-Indian debate has been a problem area, and I suspect it'd lead to more wikilawyering. 22:01, 16 June 2022 (UTC)

Statement by (username)

Result concerning LearnIndology

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
  • I'll comment on some stuff from 2021, acknowledging TrangaBellam's point that LearnIndology edits with so many gaps that it's reasonable to collect diffs from a longish time period to show a pattern. I find TB's links at 11 (July 2021) and 12 (February 2021) very egregious, but unfortunately I'd better leave analysis of the more recent examples to, hopefully, some admin or admins better read in Indian history. They're too wide-ranging for me to be sure of my footing. Anyway.
  • Re point 11: LearnIndology's editing in July 2021 of The Mughal Harem, a book by historian K. S. Lal, is eye-popping. (Actual diff, as opposed to revision, is here.) LI points out above that they didn't create the article — no, technically not. Somebody else (an IP) wrote most of the text back in 2017. But LI re-created it by reverting the redirect to K. S. Lal, stating "Per discussion, will expand more" in the edit summary. Per what discussion, one wonders - there was nothing on talk at the time, unless LI refers to this post from 2007 by a sock. Was that indeed the discussion, LI? Nor did any further expansion happen. The thus recreated article is an obnoxious piece of promotion. In it, the author, K. S. Lal, gets to (alone) describe the books reception — and describe it how? By quoting "touching" letters the author has received from other scholars. To me, as somebody who works in academe, those letters sound more like standard polite thank-you notes for a gift copy of a book that one can't really praise: "I am quite aware of the years of research that has gone into your work". Then a "dismissive" review of the book is briefly mentioned without specifics (why and how did the reviewer dismiss it?), only to be dismissed in turn by K.S Lal, who again has the floor and says what he thinks of the review. Amazing. Nobody except Lal himself is actually quoted in the article, in the state LI left it in. It's crude pro-Hindutva POV at its finest, and I'd be interested to see LI defend it.
  • Re point 12: It's very interesting to compare LI's efforts to remove "right wing Hindutva" from the lead of
    WP:POINT trolling. Bishonen | tålk 20:42, 15 June 2022 (UTC).[reply
    ]
My review of evidence presented by TrangaBellam. Abecedare (talk) 17:20, 16 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • For now, I am reviewing the evidence listed by TB and jotting down my notes. Will weigh in on the need for any AE action once I have finished the review, which may not be in the current session. Here goes:
  1. Re point 1: Edit warring to retain a Dutch politician's statement while arguing that statements of this sort should be removed is mind-boggling. Similar to the pointy and tendentious editing issue Bishonen mentions above.
  2. re point 2:
    Discussing the extent to which a recent controversy should be discussed in a biography versus a separate article is reasonable. Blanking the new article and, later, most of the related summary from the bio (twice) is not. The admonishment by Amakuru
    is on point.
  3. re point 3: Given that nobody has reverted their redirect, or otherwise objected to it, in over two months, I wouldn't hold this edit against LI and would regard it just as the B in
    WP:BRD
  4. re point 4: Indefensible and this is not an isolated instance of misrepresentation of scholarly sources (see my note re point 12).
  5. re point 5: Yes, the source LI was citing was of poor quality compared to the ones already used in the article but since they dropped the issue once this was pointed to them, I wouldn't make too big a deal of this in itself. Caveats: (1) I have only reviewed "The Pandit population" section of the discussion, and (2) I can understand that even relatively minor annoyances can add up to be disruptive if page regulars have to address them at length each time a wrong-minded objection to the article is raised. So, if there are other specific diffs or (short) discussion segment related to this article that i should look at, let me know.
    Update: Agree with TB that LI misinterpreted and saw/provided insufficient context when citing Behara in this edit. Again, by itself, this could be explained by genuine misunderstanding or non-nuanced reading of the source.
  6. re point 6: The use of generic Google Book finds to support content one wishes to add is not good, but far too common to be sanctionable by itself.
  7. re point 7: As Joshua Jonathan noted It's telling that this page is (was) not an elaborated version of the info found at t he IVC-page, but a selective choice of bits and pieces which seem to support IVC-origins of Hinduism. This is pure POV-pushing!
  8. re point 8: @TrangaBellam: can you provide the specific diff where LI claims Kenoyer supports the particular POV? I read the "Particular issues" section of the talkpage but possibly missed the LI edit in the mass of words and links.
    Update: Setting aside later works that LI may not have seen, in the cited source Kenoyer (p. 12) is, at best, non-committal about the whether IVC-Vedic swastika use were linked, and LI stretches what the source says in citing it here.
  9. re point 9: The addition would not be a big deal in itself. Less innocuous when added to the accumulating evidence of LI pushing a particular POV, particularly considering the contents placement in the lede.
  10. re point 10: TK
    Update: The edits linked at the ANEW report are clear POV-pushing BLP violations and this response to the warning about edit-warring is clear trolling... only leavened by LI's admission of fault, albeit when facing a threat of a block.
  11. re point 11: covered by Bishonen, whose analysis I concur with.
  12. re point 12: covered by Bishonen, whose analysis I concur with. But I'll note that I checked the first source cited by LI to label Romila Thapar a "left wing Marxist" and found that it does no such thing! The article does not even include the word "left" or "wing" and the only place it talks about Marxist history is when it says, She [Thapar] also examines critically D. D. Kosambi's contribution to Indian history. She praises, on the one hand, Kosambi's successful attempt to change the paradigm of writing Indian history by adding Marxist economic and social dimensions to it. On the other hand, she exposes the limitations of his anthropological and historical assumptions and, more importantly, the inadequacy of his Marxist theory. I read the whole article to make sure I was not missing some nuance but can only conclude that LI blatantly misrepresented Wagle to push a POV at the BLP.
  13. re point 13: TK
    Update: Routine POV pushing that is not too uncommon at these pages; not too surprising to see LI, who was at that point a (relatively) new editor, make the arguments they did. But the last comment is noteworthy since it explicitly lays out the POV that we see reflected in several of the more recent problematic edits discussed above, Maybe you aren't a practicing Hindu, but I am. I recite Gayatri mantra (Rig Vedic mantra) every day, I chant the mantra of Mitra every morning. Yajna and Homa are performed periodically in our home. Maybe you don't follow these simple Vedic practices but the majority of Hindus do.... And about Lingam, I am proud to follow the culture of the Indus Valley civilization as well.
I'll cover the remaining evidence in a later session (may take me a day to get to it) and add my concluding remarks at that point. Abecedare (talk) 00:01, 16 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
PS: Finished review of the remaining pieces of evidence and responses by TB and LI. My updates (marked as such) have been added to the original list. Abecedare (talk) 15:39, 16 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Response to LI's coment above: tit-for-tat battleground arguments of the sort "if you call X right-wing, I'll label Y left-wing Marxist" or "if you include the Afghan spokesperson's statement, I'll include the Dutch politician's" is exactly what
    WP:POINT
    warns against.
  • Based on my review of the evidence, I see (usually) polite but persistent POV pushing, sometime involving (possibly good faith) misjudgment of source quality and content, and sometime outright misrepresentation. While individually, several of the transgressions are excusable (note the number of times I ended up using the qualifier "in itself" in my notes above), the overall pattern and the BLP violations are not. At a minimum, I would suggest a topic ban from all articles and discussions related to Indian religions, history and politics, which would still leave LI free to edit 7 of the 10 articles they have edited most often. Note though, that on a spot check of the first article on the list, I found this edit which changed the lede sentence from The culture of Kashmir is a diverse blend and highly influenced by Indian, Persian as well as Central Asian cultures to The culture of Kashmir is part of Indian culture..., which reflects a similar nationalistic POV pushing; see also [72], [73], [74], [75], [76] etc. So possibly a TBan from all India-related topics may be needed. Pinging @Bishonen, RegentsPark, Doug Weller, Vanamonde93, SpacemanSpiff, and El C: who admin in this subject area for input. Abecedare (talk) 17:20, 16 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • I agree a sanction is needed. Limiting it to religion, history and politics is the kind of specificity that invites edge cases and arguments about grey zones. To be constantly asking oneself 'What exactly is politics?', or 'Where does religion end and discussion of the architecture of a temple begin?' would make for difficult and anxiety-provoking editing for LearnIndology. For admins, it would be harder and more timeconsuming to watch and adjudicate. Also, it's apparent from your diffs from Culture of Kashmir, Abecedare, that nationalist[77] and anti-Islam[78] edits can be inserted just fine in, as it might be, an article about culture. For those reasons, I lean towards making it simply a T-ban from Indian topics. Bishonen | tålk 21:34, 16 June 2022 (UTC).[reply]
  • Abecedare, thanks very much for your comprehensive and clear review. I would tend to agree that a topic ban is necessary here, and very much agree that making it too narrow is likely to lead to bickering over what exactly is covered by it. I would more lean toward a ban from Indian topics, or the ARBIPA topic area in general. Seraphimblade Talk to me 23:37, 16 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • While we wait for further input, I just want to ask that nobody come in to close this with an (IMO useless) three-month T-ban. It needs to be indefinite, so that LI can't just wait it out and start editing again without having learned anything. The advantage of an indef isn't that it would necessarily be very long, but that the editor would have to demonstrate competence and good will in other areas/other projects, and to write an appeal that makes some undertakings for the future. Do other people agree? Bishonen | tålk 08:20, 17 June 2022 (UTC).[reply]

Abrvagl

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning Abrvagl

User who is submitting this request for enforcement
ZaniGiovanni (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 13:17, 21 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
User against whom enforcement is requested
Abrvagl (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced
Wikipedia:ARBAA2
Diffs
of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
  1. 29 May 2022 -
    WP:HOUNDING
    and "jumping" into a discussion between me and another user
  2. 20 June 2022 -
    WP:HOUNDING
    hours after my edit
  3. 21 June 2022 - Possible
    WP:GAMING
    violations, further explanation below
Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any


If
WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts
)
  • Alerted about discretionary sanctions in the area of conflict in the last twelve months, on 26 January 2022
Additional comments by editor filing complaint

I'm following up on this as I find Abrvagl is still being problematic and needs AE's attention. The first diff is a

WP:HOUNDING by them, where they randomly "jumped" into a discussion between me and another user. This confused me at the time but I tried to not pay attention to it. However, because of their recent repeated hounding, I couldn't just restrain myself and ignore it; after my edits yesterday in Garadaghly, Nagorno-Karabakh, Abrvagl who hardly edited for almost a week, made this edit in the article among others, hours after me. They added a partisan source with extremely partisan language [79]
, which isn't an improvement and shouldn't have been added. This kind of behavior with hounding is unpleasant to me and discourages me as an editor.

Third diff; some time after the previous AE case, they left this comment in the same discussion, which I believe breaches

WP:GAMING and I'll explain why shortly; considering the fact that Talk:2020_Ganja_missile_attacks#The_missile_attacks_happened_one_week_after_Azerbaijan_began discussion was linked in that previous AE case and Abrvagl was told that Eurasianet is a reliable third-party source, the fact that Abrvagl still pings me to that discussion and demands to answer their essay
of a comment where they conclude that;

  • "Saying that bombardments of civilian areas of Ganja, which resulted in the death of civilians, was in response to Stepanakert civilian areas bombardment, which also resulted in the death of civilians, is an unsourced attempt to justify war crimes and insert of the wartime ethnic retribution logic into article. It is gross violation of WP:WEIGHT/WP:Neutral and there no place for that in Wikipedia."

And finally, considering the fact that to my appropriate reply, they're telling me; "You should consider good faith, no-one here sealioning or else.. Please also keep in mind that even a third-party user agrees with me on the talk page ZaniGiovanni (talk) 13:17, 21 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

1) How convenient to "jump" into the middle of a discussion with me and another user, despite never editing on that article, and now claim the "page was on my watchlist".
2) The specific diff I linked isn't an improvement, you cited an extremely partisan source which should never have been added to the article, hence it is hounding. And you did so hours after my edit despite hardly editing through 13-20 June. And again, you didn't have a single edit on that article prior.
3) I didn't cut anything from your conclusion segment, I included it as a whole, it's a publicly available diff. It's also convenient that you link your own comment judging what's "sufficiently substantiate" by a third-party editor, but didn't link my reply to you [80]. Considering all of this and the above, pretty sure your demanding good faith from me at this point could be considered
WP:PACT. I'll leave that to admins to decide. ZaniGiovanni (talk) 16:11, 21 June 2022 (UTC)[reply
]
Rosguill Perhaps I should've provided more diffs/context, but I didn't want this to get long. This isn't the first time Abrvagl is hounding someone, their hounding against a different user was brought up on this ANI report, which I happened to take part in. From that thread, there are quite a few other examples;
[81], [82], [83], [84] [85] (these specifically show them hounding the user and edit-warring over an info cited by a partisan source, see discussion).
So this isn't the first time Abrvagl hounds someone, and the articles are very niche for them to randomly stumble upon, such things cannot happen repeatedly.
Regarding Ganja attacks, BBC reports that it was a response, attributing it to Artsakh. Eurasianet reports that it was a response with no attribution. Talk consensus is also against Abrvagl, as even the third-party user still disagrees with them. I honestly don't know what else I should do, it's not on me at this point to reach anything with Abrvagl. They could've used any mechanisms necessary like RfC, third opinion, etc. instead of dragging me every time to the talk page, since clearly as of now, talk consensus is against them. Bottom line is, I would kindly ask you to evaluate your opinion regarding hounding, since clearly this isn't the first time from them. And regarding Ganja strikes, I have nothing else to say. It's been enough already, I'm not planning to waste months of time just to appease this user. They know all the necessary tools, they should've already used them if they didn't like the talk consensus. ZaniGiovanni (talk) 19:25, 21 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not obliged to read through a 4000byte+
wall of text
, so I'll address the diffs you brought up against me. I also think some of these were already brought up by Abrvagl in the previous AE, it's just repetition all over again;
1) Had it watchilsted way before you, proof? I'm not just going to say "I have it watchlisted" like you did, here my edit. Also, not a personal attack.
2) Same scenario as the first [86]. And what's the personal attack?
3) You probably found that discussion on my talk page User_talk:ZaniGiovanni#Golden, so you should've seen just below that I, in good faith, also asked about it in the TeaHouse User_talk:ZaniGiovanni#Your_thread_has_been_archived ([87]) because it was still unclear to me whether discussing user conduct on article talk pages should always be prohibited. I'm certainly more careful about this now, and I make sure just for good measure to raise complex conduct issues on user pages instead or appropriate noticeboards like I'm doing now.
You say I brought up 2-month-old diffs (which I only brought up as backup to my current accusation of your hounding and only after Rosguill's comment), but what are these then, and why are you bringing up these irrelevant even older diffs in AE case regarding your hounding; 26 March 2022, 10 April 2022?
And why are you discussing Kadyrova here? Have you forgotten the extensive talk page discussion? I thought we reached that RfC conclusion which you still have to launch, I'm so confused. Rosguill please tell me if I need to address anything here regarding Kadyrova or if this should be discussed on talk instead, I'm not sure about this essay comment and the purpose of it. ZaniGiovanni (talk) 22:32, 21 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]


Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

Discussion concerning Abrvagl

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by Abrvagl

Seriously Zani, you could have at least tried to talk to me before dragging me into this unnecessary AE only 9 days after your last report.

1. 29 May 2022 This page and talk page are in my watchlist. I saw a conversation between two editors and shared my own view on the conversation. How is it Hounding?

WP:HOUNDING clearly states: if done to cause distress, or if accompanied by tendentiousness, personal attacks, or other disruptive behaviour, my comment did not mean any of that. it was aimed to help conversation. It is really strange to hear such concerns. If my comment is hounding, what is this then, where you jumped into a discussion with +1,879 bytes of text
and raising personal remarks about me? I believed you did that with good intentions because I assumed good faith every time you joined discussions like this and expected the same from you. But it seems I shouldn't have.

2. 20 June 2022 No hounding or else here. Page is on my watch list. It brought my attention because there were recent changes. I actually expanded and improved the article. Abrvagl who hardly edited for almost a week, - as I mentioned earlier[88], I had emergency surgery and was having a rest. They added a partisan source with extremely partisan language - [89] is the official webpage of State Commission of the Republic of Azerbaijan on Prisoners of War, Hostages, and Missing Persons, which is perfectly fine for statistical information about missing persons, especially considering that I correctly attributed it in the article. If you believe that source is not RS for that information, you could have talked to me or at least raise it to RS board.

3. 21 June 2022 - not sure how me asking you to stop writing personal remarks on the talk pages and informing you that we need to take this case to the dispute resolution is

WP:GAMING. Abrvagl was told that Eurasianet is a reliable third-party source, the fact that Abrvagl still pings me to that discussion and demands to answer their essay of a comment where they conclude that; I never said that Eurasianet is not reliable. You actually cut the conclusion out of the context which may lead to misunderstanding. Here is the full comment[90] read the paragraphs 9 and 11 about Euroasianet. And finally, considering the fact that to my appropriate reply, they're telling me; "You should consider good faith, no-one here sealioning or else. - Zani, making personal remarks on the article talk page is not appropriate, I and other editors[91][92] already told you that many times. If you want to discuss anything unrelated to the article you are always welcome to use the editor's talk page. keep in mind that even a third-party user agrees with me - this third-party editor did not sufficiently substantiate his comment[93], as I already told him[94]
.

Reply 2

Rosguill I am not sure why Zani brought up diffs which are more than 2 months old and was not even related to him to say that I am hounding.

Diffs mentioned by Zani were a case when I noted that one of the editors was going through the Azerbaijan-related articles and removing tons of information(sometimes obvious information) from the articles with "unsourced" comments. At first look, it may look like edit warring, but in reality, I was reinstating removed material and adding sources. For example: Revert[95] and added source[96]. Revert[97] and adding source[98]. Revert[99] and added source[100] and so on.

ZaniGiovanni, didn't link my reply to you [26]. - I did not, because I did not want to show you in a bad light as you were making personal remarks about me there [101].

Zani, we shall always judge other people as we judge ourselves. If you saying that my good faith edits are Hounding, then can you please explain a few examples listed below? Do you think that they can be considered as hounding? I personally don't, as I assume good faith, but looks like you have a different view on what the hounding is.

  • [102] - you jumped into conversation writing personal remarks.
  • [103] - 17:21 I made a revert as consensus was not reached. 9 minutes later, you, who was uninvolved created a topic on talk-page with +1,879 bytes of text again with personal remarks.
  • [104] - here you jumped into the conversation and made personal remarks about other editor's behaviours by bringing up eight 1-2 years old diffs.

you cited an extremely partisan source which should never have been added to the article - I agree that the source generally not reliable as it is not this party source, however official governmental entity(The State Commission of the Republic of Azerbaijan on Prisoners of War, Hostages, and Missing Persons) is reliable to reflect Azerbaijan's official perspective and statistical data on missing persons if it is written with proper attribution. Not sure how it is hounding, but you could talk to me if you had concerns or at least take it to the RS board.

Zani, again, we shall judge others such as we judge ourselves. Here[105] you added two sources about the living person(

WP:BLP). One of the sources is the Russian search engine Rambler.ru[106], which refers to not existing webpage Kdpconsulting.ru. When you click to open Kdpconsulting.ru, it actually opens an unknown yellow pages website runews.biz. The second source[107], which seems to be personal blog[108]
focusing on IT from France perspective, does not even know if Kadyrova is male or female, and wrongly says that she is male, and focuses on her nationality calling her Azerbaijani journalist, while not mentioning that she is actually Russian journalist ...Azerbaijani journalist Saadat Kadyrova revealed to the Russian TV... He compared the residents to terrorists. Do you believe that sources are reliable for information about the living person?

Long story short - I never hounded anyone or had intentions to hound anyone, don't have anything else to add.

Statement by (username)

Result concerning Abrvagl

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

JameyRivendell

User blocked as a sock--Ymblanter (talk) 20:07, 26 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning JameyRivendell

User who is submitting this request for enforcement
Praxidicae (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 20:31, 25 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
User against whom enforcement is requested
JameyRivendell (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced
Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/American politics 2
Diffs
of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
  1. [109] June 25 The first edit to Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's article, this user adds "far-left" to the lead, despite there not being any description of such in the body. This was later reverted by me and partially by Cullen328.
  2. [110] Original insertion of "left wing politics" in the see-also section, which was what was removed by Cullen and JameyRivendell was asked to take it to the talk page for consensus.
  3. [111] June 25 My original full reversion of the addition of both what seemed to be a nonsensical addition and the far-left in the lead.
  4. [112] June 25 JR's revert of me, again with what appears to be an attempt at a pejorative in the edit summary
  5. [113] re-adding left-wing into the lead again, without discussion or consensus
  6. [114] June 25 Following my DS/GS notification, they moved onto Kenosha unrest shooting inserting "in self-defense" in the lead without any discussion or consensus, which I asked them to get in my first and only revert there.
  7. [115] June 25 Nearly immediately i was reverted and called a vandal


If
WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts
)
  • Alerted about discretionary sanctions in the area of conflict in the last twelve months, diff
Additional comments by editor filing complaint

I will also note that I reverted my second edit removing their edit as I didn't realize until afterward that it was a 24hr cycle restriction. Beyond that, it appears that JR is mostly here to stir up trouble in AP2 topics, given their editing history to the articles above, Matt Walsh (political commentator) and The Daily Wire. PRAXIDICAE🌈 20:35, 25 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

WP:NOTHERE. PRAXIDICAE🌈 22:29, 25 June 2022 (UTC)[reply
]


Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

Discussion concerning JameyRivendell

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by JameyRivendell

JameyRivendell pleads not guilty. The left wing troll who keeps reverting my edits seems to have an agenda. I believe in symmetry of information. If every single conservative politician on wikipedia is labed "right wing" or "far right" using biased sources than this should apply to left wing politicians as well. AOC is far-left af for those in the bunker. Wikipedia is not a DNC platform. Please stay neutral.

Statement by (username)

Result concerning JameyRivendell

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

GizzyCatBella

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning GizzyCatBella

User who is submitting this request for enforcement
Szmenderowiecki (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 15:57, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
User against whom enforcement is requested
GizzyCatBella (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced
WP:APLRS
Diffs
of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
  1. 15 June 2022 - attempt to relitigate a previous APLRS-related closure;
  2. 15 June 2022 - further insisting on overturning that closure;
  3. 23 June 2022 - threat to remove + further insistence on non-reliability of previously-considered reliable source;
  4. 23 June 2022 - more of the same; likely misunderstanding of underlying APLRS remedy;
  5. 23 June 2022 - going again;
  6. 23 June 2022 - and again;


If
WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts
)
  • Previously blocked as a discretionary sanction for conduct in the area of conflict, see the block log linked to above: [116] - two blocks (both self-reverted, one technical) in August 2021
Additional comments by editor filing complaint
The Warsaw concentration camp returns again to the Arbitration Committee.
On 2 November 2021, GizzyCatBella challenged the usage of this source. GizzyCatBella properly challenged that article since it was non-scholarly and the user provided some sort of rationale other than the point of non-scholarship (in that case, the participation of banned Icewhiz). Acting on this
challenge and given my interest in making that article as comprehensive as possible, I started what proved to be an acrimonious RfC three days later that later escalated to ArbCom
. The RfC ultimately was closed with the following relevant point, that there is consensus that the Haaretz article used as a source for the footnote is reliable and, as such, WP:APLRS is satisfied.
In June, Jens Lallensack, who was not involved into any of the prior discussions, started the GA article review. GizzyCatBella stated in diff 1 that they don't want the reference to appear in there, without any qualifiers, if that was to be a GA, but ignored the request to refer the RfC to review. No policy I am aware of allows some sources for inferior articles but disallows for the others. The user repeatedly showed their will to challenge the closure and threatened to disregard it by removing the source in question (diff 3). They claim that the RfC closure said that since it is reliable as used in a footnote, it is not reliable anywhere else (likely due to the user's own opinion on it as unreliable), and suggested to go with an ArbCom clarification, or else challenge it again, which would be very likely burdensome for the community. [Another usage of that source is quoting from Jan Grabowski and Havi Dreifuss, both subject-matter scholars]. The user repeatedly said that multiple other sources available for the same content, but provided none to back up their point. The user seems generally to believe that whatever was not written by a historian is unreliable for the topic, which is not what APLRS says.
GizzyCatBella additionally threatened to challenge two videos from YouTube, one being a France24 report, and the other being an Israeli TV interview with
WP:SQSAVOID
obliges the reverts have a "clear substantive explanation", which the user avoided to share so far despite being asked to do so).
I ask the admins to instruct the user to comply with the closure, order the editor to stop abusing APLRS as a way to automatically remove any reference without explanation, and otherwise stop the uncooperative and combattive behaviour.
I request 200 more words for replies. TonyBallioni is pinged as the administrator imposing discretionary sanctions. Szmenderowiecki (talk) 15:57, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
GizzyCatBella, this board is in the category of "dispute resolution" boards for a reason.
Also, given the very long discussion about that source (and several others you have engaged in, i.a. over the meaning of the word "hoax" in Wikipedia), obviously I've had enough of that once I've been that shitshow, and I struggle to understand why others haven't and want to remind us of that waste of editor resources over and over again.
is not what (most) people think it is due to a grammatical/technical quirk, is disruptive. And even if we disregard all that, the editor knows that most people agreed to disagree anyway, so why raise this issue again? Szmenderowiecki (talk) 23:12, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply
]
GizzyCatBella, the problem here is not the source itself, it is your behaviour with relation to that close, which was clarified to mean what it means by plain reading of that source (thanks for confirming that, Isabelle). The enforcement request is about compliance with the RfC, it is not about the source, for which this venue is not appropriate. Szmenderowiecki (talk) 16:44, 25 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
GizzyCatBella, I used this one. I downloaded the audio track of that YouTube video and then split it into 1-min intervals. Then I pasted whatever Hebrew text was generated into Google Translate and saw the English translation (YouTube does not automatically generate captions for Hebrew). Szmenderowiecki (talk) 17:49, 27 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested
[117]

Discussion concerning GizzyCatBella

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by GizzyCatBella

I'll address the issue as soon as I can (busy for most of the day) as there are numerous inaccuracies here such as number 3 (just a quick example for now) - a threat to remove --> Where do I say that I'll remove or where is the threat of me removing anything from the article Szmenderowiecki?

Meantime, please read the entire conversation and (among other things) notice this comment --> [118] were the filer disrespectfully insinuated that my good faith involvement in GA review is to overturn the RfC, which is untrue, that is not my intension at all. Also Szmederowiecki, why didn't you ask for a wider input from our community, as I suggested, instead of accusing me of acting in bad faith? You came here to resolve the disagreement? You know that this might be a tremendous unnecessary time sink, right? You are requesting the AE to resolve that debate instead of asking the community for consensus? What's up with that Szmenderowiecki? - GizzyCatBella🍁 17:01, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Wugapodes - Sorry, I’m still busy, just scanning here. So the article with such troubled history could be freely used directly, anywhere in such uneasy toopic area? I understood the closing of RfC completaly different. (Use ok as a source for a footnote - only in this particular article) I’m not arguing with your evaluation, looks like you're skilled in Linguistics (judging by your front page also), and English is my second language, but I'm a little stunned.. Should we ask the closing editor for clarification or study the RfC and clarify it ourselves elsewhere? GizzyCatBella🍁 22:09, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@Szmenderowiecki - So if you (quoting you) had enough of that once I've been that shits how why on earth it’s so important to you to maintain that particular source in the body of the article, to the point that you came here with this dishonest (not only my opinion) report? What it’s more important to you Szmenderowiecki? Maintaining the potentially troubled source in the body (instead of the footnote - no objections here) that has a prospect to destabilize the article in the future or passing the article into the GA status? Explain that to me, please? GizzyCatBella🍁 23:41, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Isabelle Belato Thank you for clarification Isabelle - GizzyCatBella🍁 05:04, 25 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Recent conversation with the filer on the talk page of user Deborahjay preserved here for the record -->[119] (Initial Diff in case it gets archived) - GizzyCatBella🍁 22:07, 25 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

What is to be uncovered in the conversation linked above:
Findings:
Szmenderowiecki enters the source (video) into the article, they later argue (numerous times) to keep They used the source as an example while writing this report (quote from his above filing):
GizzyCatBella additionally threatened to challenge two videos from YouTube, one being a France24 report, and the other being an Israeli TV interview with Gideon Greif, a subject-matter expert on the Holocaust, without stating any problem other than being YouTube videos.
  • Conclusion (related to this particular AE report only):
Szmenderowiecki enters unverified YouTube video, they later state they don't understand, into the article and uses it to reference information. - GizzyCatBella🍁 05:19, 27 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]


Notice the subtitles/closed captions button in the above discussed video -->[120] Click CC button below the video - it says Subtitles/closed captions unavailable.

  • Question. What voice recognition software are you referring to in your remark here Szmenderowiecki? - GizzyCatBella🍁 07:50, 27 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@Szmenderowiecki this should work just fine. I’ll confirm later if necessary. For now, that’s all from me. - GizzyCatBella🍁 18:40, 27 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]


Additional notes that might be helpful: Judging by the dates and pictures in the video, it's most likely about Haaretz's article (now famous around here - courtesy of one banned Wikipedian) - GizzyCatBella🍁 15:02, 27 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Volunteer Marek

Let me get this straight. User:Szmenderowiecki filed a WP:AE report because… someone disagreed with them (civility, politely) in a discussion??? Every single one of these diffs is a comment. Not article edits, not anything even resembling incivility, nothing. I don’t even understand what policy these are supposed to violate. This seems to boil down to “how dare you have an opinion different from mine!!!!”

I mean, I’ve seen some ridiculously spurious WP:AE reports over the years but this has got to be some kind of record for spuriousness..es..esses(?)

Just ban Szmenderowiecki from WP:AE and tell them to quit wasting people’s time. Volunteer Marek 19:19, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by My very best wishes

A contributor (GizzyCatBella) can reasonably believe that a source should be removed from a page if we want this page to become a Good Article, regardless to any previous RfCs. This is not an unreasonable opinion because during the RfC a number of other contributors argued that the page would be better off without this reference. If we simply remove the disputed ref, the article will remain just as good (GA), as it is. End of story. Why bring this here? Perhaps there are some reasons, but I do not understand them. My very best wishes (talk) 20:57, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Wugapodes​. Yes, I see it: Requests to enforce the discretionary sanctions or sourcing restrictions should be posted to the arbitration enforcement noticeboard (AE) for evaluation by uninvolved administrators. However, I do not see how anyone (like GizzyCatBella) arguing to exclude a source (an article in Haaretz) from a page to make it a Good Article might be viewed by anyone as a violator of sourcing requirements. Even if it was a reference satisfying the requirements by Arbcom, one can always argue to exclude it for whatever good reason. This is not a violation of any remedy by Arbcom. Only someone arguing to include an insufficiently good reference on talk (like Szmenderowiecki) might be viewed as a potential rather than an actual violator. My very best wishes (talk) 22:33, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Isabelle

It seems like my poor domain of the English language has finally come to haunt me. Firstly, I have no opinion on this particular matter as it relates to GizzyCatBella, and am here just to clarify any misunderstandings related to

WP:DUE). I hope this answers any questions. Feel free to ping me if any further comments are necessary. Isabelle 🏳‍🌈 01:15, 25 June 2022 (UTC)[reply
]

Statement by Aquillion

I think that the RFC was clear, but that bringing up objections again in a

WP:DEADHORSE behavior, but a GA nomination is a specific one-time thing where every significant concern over the article is supposed to be gone over, so I don't think it's unreasonable for someone to note, in that context, that they still think it's a problem, regardless of the previous RFC... even if such an objection is unlikely to go anywhere. And it's also at least not unreasonable to suggest that the standard for a GA is higher, which can lead to previous discussions being reconsidered (even if I think it was vanishingly unlikely in this case.) --Aquillion (talk) 20:26, 29 June 2022 (UTC)[reply
]

Statement by (username)

Result concerning GizzyCatBella

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.