Wikipedia:But there must be sources!
This is an essay on Wikipedia:Deletion policy. It contains the advice or opinions of one or more Wikipedia contributors. This page is not an encyclopedia article, nor is it one of Wikipedia's policies or guidelines, as it has not been thoroughly vetted by the community. Some essays represent widespread norms; others only represent minority viewpoints. |
This page in a nutshell: Don't just claim that there must be sources out there somewhere. Instead, prove it, by providing them. |
Wikipedia discussions |
---|
Arguments to avoid in |
Arguments to make |
Common outcomes |
You may be confident that sources exist, but
Wikipedia's
Insisting the sources must exist without being able to provide them is generally
- Keep – This is obviously notable, so it could be referenced. Prejudger 01:01, 1 January 2001 (UTC)
- Keep – There must be plenty of sources. Presumer 01:01, 1 January 2001 (UTC)
- Keep – You should find sources, instead of deleting it. ItsUpToYou 01:01, 1 January 2001 (UTC)
- Keep – There are 20,000 google hits for some or all of the words in the title so surely there are sources. NeedleHaystack 01:01, 1 January 2001
- Keep – You need to show there are no sources. ProveANegative 01:01, 1 January 2001
- Keep – I expect that sourcing is available to verify basic facts Expector 01:01, 1 January 2001
- Keep – Other people will be able to provide references. HaveFaith 01:01, 1 January 2001
- Keep – I've seen sources but I won't tell you what they are or where I found them. YaGottaBelieveMe 01:01, 1 January 2001
We keep articles because we know they have sources, not because we assume they have, without having seen them. Any claim that sources exist must be verifiable. Unless you can indicate what and where the sources are, they are not verifiable.
Keep in mind, as well, that if all you had to do to prevent an article's deletion was to guess at the possibility that better sources might exist than anybody has actually found, then even outright
Note that sometimes editors posit an even weaker version of this argument: but there may be sources! All criticism of the stronger argument applies in such case too, of course, plus the slippery slope to extreme inclusionism (but there is a tiny chance there are sources... but maybe sources will appear tommmorrow... etc.).
Frequently asked questions
Q. But what if I feel very strongly about this article and sources on the topic are hard to find?
A. The article can be
Q. But the article is only X days/weeks/months old, references aren't there yet but they will be. Without the Wikipedia article, how will 3rd parties know to write about this?
A. This idea is completely backwards to how Wikipedia actually works. The references must come first, then the Wikipedia article. Wikipedia isn't here to promote ideas to the point where they may become notable, that notability must come first.
Q. But what about
A. Insisting that an article be kept only because the nominator has not followed
Q. Why don't you go and look for sources?
A. Frequently people do. This is a collaborative encyclopedia that works on a process of incremental improvement. But demanding people do your work for you is not fair, for several reasons:
- It's insulting. They are challenging material because they have been unable to find sources. To tell them that they should go away and do just that comes across as a slap in the face.
- It's presumptuous. You do not have a claim on nobody else's jobto fix it. It is unfair to pass this job on to other editors who may not have the time, inclination or knowledge of the subject material to fix it, especially if they believe in good faith that it can't be done at all.
- responsibility on the editor who adds the materialto reference it, not the person challenging it.
Q. But what about
A. We were all newcomers at some point and someone helped us understand Wikipedias policies and guidelines around references. You repay that by doing the same for newcomers and doing it without biting them. Giving new editors who make vague statements presuming existence of sources a "pass" simply because they are new does not do them or Wikipedia any service.