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Huras al-Din base in Syria's rebel-held Idlib Governorate, where the Syrian government earlier began a unilateral ceasefire. (BBC News)(Reuters)
2018–19 Gaza border protests
The Hamas-run Health Ministry of Gaza says a 25-year-old man died in hospital there today after being struck by an Israeli bullet during protests at the Gazan-Israeli border yesterday. It further says Israeli soldiers wounded 42 protesters. Israel says Palestinians threw grenades at the fence, damaging a vehicle and injuring a soldier. (Yahoo!)
War in Afghanistan
Taliban fighters storm Kunduz city, apparently killing three civilians and dozens of soldiers. A suicide bomber kills ten municipal police. (BBC News)(Tolo News)
National Register of Citizens for the state of Assam. Up to 1.9 million residents risk losing their citizenship if they are not on the list and can not prove their residency. The move is criticized for disproportionately affecting the local Bengali community. (BBC News)
At least seven people are killed and 21 others wounded in a mass shooting in West Texas, between the cities of Midland and Odessa. The shooter is shot and killed in Odessa. Police continue to investigate for other possible suspects. (BBC News)(CNN)(Reuters)(MST)
2016 Interstate 10 tour bus crash
A truck driver involved in the accident, which killed thirteen when two vehicles collided in
vehicular manslaughter. The sleep-deprived driver fell asleep during a temporary halt to traffic; when traffic moved off again he remained stationary and the bus ran into the rear of his vehicle. (ABC News)
Posted. --Jayron32 11:42, 3 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
(Closed) 2019 Midland–Odessa shooting
Clear consensus against posting. – Sca (talk) 13:26, 1 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Article:
mass shooting in Midland, Texas kills five people and injures twenty-one people. (Post) News source(s):NYT, CNN
Unfortunately Oppose. We had posted the El Paso shooting because it was a rather large number, and the Dayton one only because it was 24hr later and both talked in the same news cycle. This is while tragic, yet a smaller gun crime in the US where they are too common. --Masem (t) 06:04, 1 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Novelty points for being a series of drivebys this time, but still more a curiosity than Big Story. InedibleHulk(talk) 06:30, 1 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose I find myself in agreement with User:Masem and InedibleHulk. Minor incident of frequent type. --DBigXrayᗙ 06:54, 1 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I didn't say it was minor or frequent. Just not big news. It's crazy rare for this type of thing to involve one guy, a white guy, a caught guy, a rural guy or a non-feuding guy. This sort of thing being GTA-style rampage, I mean. As "another mass shooting", of course he's the usual suspect. InedibleHulk(talk) 07:01, 1 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
InedibleHulk you have failed to notice the period after your name. I did not say "that it is a..". You can also read "." as ". IMHO" in the statement above, if it helps. --DBigXrayᗙ 07:40, 1 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I fail to notice nothing. There was a connotation, and it's still there, but if you weren't implying it, I won't infer it. Now why was I initially pung here, if not to argue or agree? InedibleHulk(talk) 08:06, 1 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - shootings with comparatively low death tallies occur too frequently in the United States to justify posting all of them on ITN. Stormy clouds (talk) 11:02, 1 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Still needs some citations. Sam Walton (talk) 22:15, 31 August 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
I've tried bolstering the sourcing (there's some key BLP stuff that I know is sourced well, its the smaller games that are a bit harder for good sourcing). --Masem (t) 02:23, 1 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support References are all in order, article is at least as good as any other RD post. Sad tale.130.233.2.183 (talk) 06:37, 2 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support now fully sourced. -Zanhe (talk) 22:39, 2 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's comments: Please state whether you support a blurb or RD only. Mjroots (talk) 17:09, 31 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
RD only A Formula 2 racer isn't going to be the news story of a Dale Earnhardt or comparable F1 racer. – Muboshgu (talk) 17:43, 31 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
RD Only and the article is really not sufficiently detailed, its a lot of charts with minimal substance. --Masem (t) 17:59, 31 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - as of now. Still a lot of result charts that are unsourced.BabbaQ (talk) 20:17, 31 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose blurb - as above, not at the highest level of his profession and ergo not as notable as other comparable racingdeaths. Also not ready to be posted as an RD yet. Stormy clouds (talk) 22:30, 31 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
WP:BLUE issue. Mjroots (talk) 05:29, 1 September 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
In contrast, there is a LOT more prose at Bianchi's article that the tables do not stand out as the bulk of the article. Here, the tables are nearly or more than half of the content, and the lack of general sourcing is of question. (Roughly , less than 500 words of text). Yes, the article passes notability, but it seems to be lacking significant content, particularly in light of this accident, you'd think there would be more bio stuff that can be added. --Masem (t) 05:43, 1 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Masem: - I expect full obituaries to be posted today, which will enable expansion of the article. Mjroots (talk) 05:47, 1 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support RD Looks much better now. (I oppose Blurb. In case that was not clear). – Ammarpad (talk) 15:35, 1 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support RD. In better shape, referencing is up to date. Spengouli (talk) 19:58, 1 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support RD G2G-- BoothSift 20:23, 1 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose – I guess I have to be the bad guy. There is an {{unreferenced section}}. I did not put it there but it is justified. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 03:15, 2 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
RFC started at
WT:MOTOR re referencing of results sections in all motorsport articles. Please feel free to make your views known there. Mjroots (talk) 14:21, 2 September 2019 (UTC)[reply
OpposeHonors and Works sections are totally lacking, and still plenty unreferenced claims scattered throughout the prose sections. Terms and definitions section is unnecessary; those should be included on their respective pages for e.g. World-Systems Theory. Half the text in the Criticism section is actually a defense of his work, which raises some suspicions.130.233.2.183 (talk) 06:50, 2 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I don't get it, are you saying he shouldn't be included because of a lack of notability? Search for his name on Google Scholar or Web of Science.CircleAdrian (talk) 05:47, 3 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I mean, they are lacking for references130.233.2.183 (talk) 09:43, 3 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. Better sources will be needed to attest to his death too. The only results I can find online other than the Mehr News Agency and Firat News Agency already cited is TRT World. All are clearly questionable, and it would be reasonable to expect news of his death to appear on a university website or an international agency. —Brigade Piron (talk) 17:30, 2 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Added two more sources. Presumably there aren't more US university/news sites posting about it yet because of Labor Day weekend. He did definitely die, if you search on Twitter you'll see a ton of people posting about it. CircleAdrian (talk) 05:43, 3 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
UAE Foreign Ministry has said the "preemptive operation" targeted "terrorist militias". (Al Jazeera)
Israel–Lebanon conflict
Israeli Defense Forces name three senior Iranian officers and point out that the leader of the Quds Force is in Lebanon "with his family". Amid the campaign for the 17 September legislative election, Israel says Iran is moving to convert Hezbollah's arsenal of what Israel says is more than 100,000 rockets into precision-guided missiles. (CNN)
International relations
Pope Francis sends a video message to the people of Mozambique before his visit to the African country next week. He stresses reconciliation after years of conflict. The Pontiff says that “although I will be unable to travel beyond the capital, my heart reaches out and embraces you all, with a special place for those who live in difficulty.” (Holy See Press Office)
A Court of Session judge refuses to grant an interdict, the Scottish equivalent to an injunction, preventing the upcoming suspension of the UK Parliament. The judge rules there is "no cogent need" for such an emergency measure as the suspension is not scheduled until September 9. However, a full hearing on the lawfulness of the suspension is brought forward to Tuesday. The case against the UK government is being brought by Members of the Scottish Parliament. (BBC News)
Former Prime Minister Sir John Major announces he will join a case brought by anti-Brexit campaigner Gina Miller seeking judicial review of Parliament's suspension in the High Court under English law. The case challenges the lawfulness of current UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson's advice to Queen Elizabeth II in asking her to suspend the UK Parliament. The case is due for a preliminary hearing next Thursday with a full hearing the following day if the High Court approves one. (BBC News)
Trump family and White House operations to reporters at a private dinner. Westerhout had allegedly bragged about her personal access to U.S. PresidentDonald Trump. (BBC News)
White House aides admit that President Trump made up a phone call from China last weekend. (The Independent)
@Masem and The Rambling Man: I've rewritten the article. I've had to comment out the filmography section and other details as they have proved to be difficult to source, but the article still covers the essentials. Feel free to take another look and list any problems. Hrodvarsson (talk) 04:00, 3 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Should be okay now. Not 100% thrilled with removing the filmography but you kept the more recognizable films there. --Masem (t) 04:07, 3 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support - article sourcing has been improved. starship.paint (talk) 06:26, 3 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Posted to RD. SpencerT•C 01:43, 6 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Start Class article with good sourcing DBigXrayᗙ 15:46, 31 August 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
Weak oppose I see at least two unreferenced claims in there, and some bare URLs. The remainder appears satis. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 20:05, 1 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support References are good, by spot check. I think it's strange that his death should be in the Background section, and it does read oddly. A few more details (marriage? kids?), rename the section Private Life or something, and then it's good to go.130.233.2.183 (talk) 06:56, 2 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Fixed Thanks for the kind review. I have renamed the section to Biography. Others are welcome if they have a better option in mind. --DBigXrayᗙ 14:24, 2 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Limited depth of the subject's career. Dennis_Fentie#Political_career is essentially a list in prose format, with some additional drama about Fentie's government (rather than his political career specifically). Needs information about issues he pushed for, legislation introduced/passed, or other concrete things done in office, rather than election results listed. SpencerT•C 01:35, 6 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: American actress dies at age 80. Article in good shape, except for the filmography. Davey2116 (talk) 23:17, 30 August 2019 (UTC)[reply
No consensus to post. SpencerT•C 14:26, 6 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
It never is with this user's nominations.-- Pawnkingthree (talk) 15:14, 30 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose A peer-reviewed journal article is not a news source. – Muboshgu (talk) 15:21, 30 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose this doesn't even deserve to be on the Current events portal IMO. I'd suggest a SNOW close soon. – John M Wolfson (talk • contribs) 21:43, 30 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I'd oppose on quality at this time on the basis that the target article hasn't been updated, but - for what it's worth - I did notice at least some news coverage of this ([7][8][9][10][11][12]). I don't really have any strong opinions on whether or not the story is notable, but I thought it might be in the interest of some editors for me to post this (since the nomination was flawed as it linked to the study itself) VanillaWizard💙 08:40, 31 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Support blurb; article is in good shape. SpencerT•C 12:44, 30 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Why not a blurb? Brexit was a preventive measure (to save us from headache) because we all know where that was headed. This is more like the Hong Kong protests where, at first, we did not know what direction it was going to go. I would be more inclined to support blurb now and ongoing later if warranted, like we did with Hong Kong. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 13:32, 30 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose blurb but Support ongoing. This is stale as a blurb, as these started mid-August, but they are still going. --Masem (t) 15:09, 30 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The protests started on Aug 19 and would be the second-newest item on the template if posted for that date. SpencerT•C 15:31, 30 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Ongoing is probably better at this moment since it is difficult to single out one event. Willing to post when I see some more support. --Tone 15:19, 30 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support blurb or ongoing per above. Already notable, and seems like it will develop. Davey2116 (talk) 17:17, 30 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Posted to ongoing for the time being, we can always update to a blurb. --Tone 17:41, 30 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support blurb - blurb first, ongoing later. Banedon (talk) 22:39, 30 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support both-Per Davey-- BoothSift 20:24, 1 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: Per this edit, it seems that the protests have subsided. IMO a blurb would be preferable for this situation. SpencerT•C 02:48, 2 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Tensions escalate between Indonesia and Pacific Island nations as the situation in the province of West Papua worsens after an Indonesian soldier and a West Papuan are killed in clashes. Vanuatuan Foreign Minister Ralph Regenvanu said "something must be done", amid calls to invite United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights Michelle Bachelet to investigate murders and torture in the area. (Radio New Zealand)
ISIL cell responsible for Tuesday's suicide bombings that killed three policemen. Hamas says ten are in custody. (The Times of Israel)
The Supreme Court of Thailand upholds death sentences against two migrant workers convicted of murdering two UK tourists and raping one. Rights groups say that the men are scapegoats and tortured into false confessions by police under pressure to solve the crimes, which attracted international attention. (The Guardian)
2019 Hong Kong anti-extradition bill protests
Hong Kong police ban a planned Saturday march by the Civil Human Rights Front, saying there is "a high chance that certain violent protesters will hijack this event". The CHRF plans to appeal. (Bloomberg)
Pakistani men are found guilty of abusing and raping teenage girls between 1998 and 2002 in Rotherham, England. The National Crime Agency believes as many as 1,510 teenagers were sexually exploited in the town during the same period. (BBC News)
A French court jails several members of Generation Identity and fines the organisation over an anti-immigration operation in the Alps. They were found guilty of "exercising activities in conditions that could create confusion with a public function". The case was that the operation could be mistaken for a government action. (The Independent)
Imam Khomeini Spaceport in southeastern Iran. This is Iran's third failed attempt to reach orbit this year following launches in January and February. (NPR)
When I first saw this, I mistook him for Kyohei Wada. But realizing my error, I didn't feel strongly enough to say anything about Kazuo or his article quality. Unhelpful, I know, but Neutral. InedibleHulk(talk) 00:43, 5 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support per starship.paint. Hrodvarsson (talk) 03:21, 5 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support - article satisfies the ITNC criteria. --DBigXrayᗙ 06:56, 5 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Start Class article with goodnow excellent sourcing DBigXrayᗙ 15:14, 31 August 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
Weak oppose Could use more prose information about his professional career and notable events. At present, that section is essentially a list in prose format of teams he played with and awards that he won. SpencerT•C 02:37, 2 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Fixed the article has been expanded with excellent sourcing. --DBigXrayᗙ 17:26, 3 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support - I added a sentence too and it’s fine now. starship.paint (talk) 00:30, 5 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
A lot of work has been put into expanding the article and improving the sources. An admin should review and post this before it gets archived. --DBigXrayᗙ 13:23, 5 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: American police detective, who was escorting Lee Harvey Oswald when he was assassinated, dies at age 99. Article needs more refs. Davey2116 (talk) 17:12, 30 August 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
Still needs more referencing, unfortunately. starship.paint (talk) 06:23, 3 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
(Closed) FARC war announcement
No consensus to post. SpencerT•C 02:39, 2 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Nominator's comments: Announcement only two years after the 2016 peace agreements sought to end more than fifty years of conflict. Significant coverage and historically important. BrozTito (talk) 23:42, 29 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support seems obvious. Banedon (talk) 23:55, 29 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Because he is a former commander it's not entirely clear what ramifications this announcement will have. EternalNomad (talk) 00:34, 30 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Comment As I'm woefully ignorant to the situation between Colombia and the FARC, would anyone familiar with the subject be able to comment here regarding .whether or not Márquez's announcement (as a former leader) is in fact a significant development? It wouldn't feel right for me to !vote without having enough of an understanding to accurately assess the notability of this story. VanillaWizard💙 01:10, 30 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose the lead of the FARC article indicates that the leader of FARC disagrees with Marquez on that front. – John M Wolfson (talk • contribs) 03:31, 30 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Note All FARC commanders are technically former, by virtue of the formal breakup, unless they're back together now. The current leader of the same-named political party is not inherently the leader of a potentially reformed insurgent militia reclaiming the name. InedibleHulk(talk) 03:59, 30 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose The third comment to this nomination shows that, given the articles linked in the blurb, an interested reader cannot determine the relevance of this event. Marquez's article is not updated and in any case is in very bad shape. The FARC article is very long and the update section seems UNDUE; it could have just as easily fit into the previous section already dealing with FARC members dissenting from the peace accord. Worth noting that this is not the first time that members of FARC have declared the accord void. I remember this happening within weeks of the Nobel being awarded to the (previous?) Colombian president for this issue. It never went anywhere, and it's CRYSTAL to think that this one will.130.233.2.183 (talk) 12:06, 30 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
If FARC was resuming its war, that should be posted. But what would that look like, if not this? GreatCaesarsGhost 12:29, 30 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose – Political grandstanding by disaffected FARC supporters. – Sca (talk) 13:18, 30 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose I could go outside and yell that we're returning to war with Sweden. Doesn't make it so. 88.215.17.228 (talk) 13:23, 30 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Czy jesteś Polski? – Sca (talk) 13:31, 30 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Hey, just as easily could be France. I discriminate not. :) 88.215.17.228 (talk) 13:45, 30 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose If he were a political leader with any troops under his command (so leaders of most countries and of US states) declaring war or even asking his legislature to declare war, it would be notable. If he were commander of an extant military group and was announcing the end of a long standing cease fire, I could see it being notable. Even a commander who declares that he won't be accepting a peace treaty negotiated by his superiors might be notable (depending on how much of the group he commanded). A commander from a disbanded military organization declaring war when he has an unknown amount of troops and materiel doesn't mean much. Let him actually do something and claim credit and we will believe that he has started a war. Rockphed (talk) 14:18, 30 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Comment As I understand reading these, when the 2015 peace deal was signed, FARC ended up becoming a political party and gained seats. This thing here is a "new FARC", a splinter group that has taken up the most hostile measures that the original FARC had and abandoned. That said, no hostilities have actually started, so I would not post this yet. --Masem (t) 14:49, 30 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose, we're supposed to be an encyclopedia, not a free publicity machine for the most grandiose and/or blood-curdling pronouncements of assorted dissatisfied terrorists. Besides, how would we decide which terrorists supposedly 'deserve' our assistance? Tlhslobus (talk) 18:09, 1 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose I agree with above-- BoothSift 22:45, 1 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Nominator's comments: Conte resigned last week, and the 5 Star-Lega government he led (or maybe "oversaw") collapsed. Now he's been reappointed by the PM to lead a new government. Smurrayinchester 12:59, 29 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose The Guardian article doesn't say what you think it says. Conte has merely been given a mandate to try forming a new government. The very same article says the deal may be scuppered if the Five Star Movement members vote it down. Wait until Conte if/when succeeds and then we can debate. 88.215.17.228 (talk) 13:17, 29 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Wait – If they manage to cobble together a cabinet and form a new government, this would be ITNworthy. – Sca (talk) 14:30, 29 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Wait per Sca. It's just a little too soon. Once a government is formed, regardless of who the PM will be, I definitely intend to support a blurb on its merits, but this story is still developing (as far as I know). VanillaWizard💙 20:28, 29 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I'm becoming more open to ongoing as the most blurb-worthy aspects of the story (the formation of a new government) have yet to come, but if there's reason to believe that this could be as slow as the process to replace Theresa May was, then I'd be swayed that a blurb now is more appropriate. VanillaWizard💙 20:51, 31 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support the alternative would be posting it to ongoing (see Brexit) and as with that nomination, I'm for blurb first, ongoing later. Banedon (talk) 23:58, 29 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support – Interesting political machinations. Would be nice to get us out of this news dry spell. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 08:16, 30 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Changed !vote to wait. I was under the false impression this was a done deal. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 13:36, 30 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Per the IP - nothing to see here. Would support posting the new government. GreatCaesarsGhost 12:29, 30 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support - Proposed altblurb2 for content. Also, as per Coffeeandcrumbs, time to get this wagon rolling before it's old news. Suggest to bolden "resignation" and "formation", as they're the same newsworthy process, ongoing for three weeks now. Wakari07 (talk) 12:42, 30 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
How would it be old news? Either Conte succeeds, at which point his continuation as Prime Minister is confirmed and we could post then, or he fails, and there's a well good chance of that happening - we'd look a little silly then having posted this. Wait until if/when Conte succeeds. 88.215.17.228 (talk) 12:54, 30 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I mean the crisis that suddenly started three weeks ago (with the railway vote) and the resignation ten days ago now. Just suggesting, couldn't we update and/or bump the blurb as needed over the follwing days/weeks? The only significant events expected are either (unexpected) elections or an (expected) oathtaking and confirmation. But this could take weeks. Why wait? Wakari07 (talk) 13:07, 30 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
We wait because the significance of the story is whether this deal actually works. As mentioned, it goes before a vote of Five Star Movement members, who could easily vote it down. And knowing Italian politics, any number of other things could derail this. We can post when we actually know the result. The fact Conte has merely been tasked to try is not ground-breaking news that must be posted this very moment. 88.215.17.228 (talk) 13:16, 30 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The significance is that of a serious, ongoing political crisis in a major country [13][14]. Wakari07 (talk) 13:22, 30 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
And we'll post about it...when we actually have something solid to report. News that a politician is trying to form government isn't ITN-worthy. 88.215.17.228 (talk) 13:29, 30 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Are you trying to suggest that, because I'm editing from an IP my opinion is somehow less worthy? Suggest you be careful with your response. 88.215.17.228 (talk) 13:38, 30 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for striking, I do appreciate that. I apologise for my tone in response. I think, to avoid this escalating, let's just say we have two different views on this. We've both made our case and we'll let others decide. 88.215.17.228 (talk) 13:41, 30 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Note: altblurb2 seems not to mention the word "Italy" at all. The acronyms are not very useful here, either. — RAVENPVFF·talk· 13:03, 30 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Tried a fix.~Thanks for the feedback. Wakari07 (talk) 13:07, 30 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Molto buono! – Sca (talk) 13:24, 30 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The Rambling Man has been on Wikipedia since 2005. I don't think he needs educating on what a multiparty democracy is... 88.215.17.228 (talk) 13:18, 30 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
You mean, until the last adult leaves the room? Wakari07 (talk) 13:29, 30 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support alt blurb 2 or ongoing While it's not a change in head-of-government, it is still very consequential for Italy and the world. Davey2116 (talk) 17:15, 30 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Weak Support for Ongoing, basically per Vanilla Wizard above. Weak oppose for blurbs as basically premature, tho alt blurb 2 seems best if others decide to post a blurb. Tlhslobus (talk) 17:58, 1 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Update If I understand the mechanics here, today the new colation gov't, announced yesterday, Sept 4, should have been sworn in (NYTimes). They still face a confidence vote by the Parliament, but this is not expected to be a hurdle due to the colition's control of Parliament. So this might be the time to post? --Masem (t) 21:05, 5 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Cardinal of the Catholic Church; should be adequately referenced. — RAVENPVFF·talk· 15:50, 29 August 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
Weak oppose There were a few statements that needed cites. I've tagged them as such; if you can clean that up, consider this a full support. --Jayron32 20:22, 29 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Jayron32: I've cleaned those up and fixed some other minor details. — RAVENPVFF·talk· 02:12, 30 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support - article looks good. -Zanhe (talk) 03:19, 30 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support – Does a much better job at avoiding over-reliance on primary sources, unlike previous noms for cardinals. Good work. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 07:27, 30 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Three people are killed amidst heavy rains in southwestern Japan. Authorities ask almost one million people to evacuate, warning "unprecedented" levels of rainfall could cause the flooding of rivers, trigger landslides, and submerge houses. (BBC News)
The Civil Aviation Authority of South Africa concludes its investigation with a final report indicating the accident was caused by poor maintenance and errors by unqualified pilots. (The Aviation Herald)
New Zealand bans tourists from swimming with bottlenose dolphins, saying dwindling numbers are linked to excessive interaction with tourists, as the animals choose socialising with people over necessary biological functions. Authorities say the species risks "being loved into extinction". (The Independent)
Through a spokesman, Lopeti Senituli, for the government, Tonga blames the World Bank over the situation of their schools in Tongatapu, which are still in tents 17 months after Cyclone Gita. (Radio New Zealand)
drug dealers after they realized he had seen them complete a drug deal and had also seen their supplier. Bus services are suspended and authorities say the capital is currently unsafe. (Radio 702)(ZimEye)
LGBT+ people from discrimination. They argue the law "does not prohibit discrimination because of an individual's actions, behaviours, or inclinations". (The Independent)
Archaeologists in Huanchaco, Peru unearth 227 sets of human remains aged between five and fourteen, and believed to be sacrificed over 500 years prior. The discovery is the largest known child sacrifice in history. (BBC News)
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Notorious Red Guards leader who fired the opening shot of the Cultural Revolution. Zanhe (talk) 21:05, 29 August 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
Support – Looks good to me. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 07:35, 30 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
No consensus to post. – Muboshgu (talk) 17:06, 29 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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Nominator's comments: A high profile demise of a professional football team that has been in the professional leagues since before the start of most international leagues The C of E God Save the Queen! (talk) 18:19, 28 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Very big UK sports news, but no further than that. Black Kite (talk) 18:50, 28 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose very sad, but parochial and while it may be the end of the beginning for such clubs, this is a minor blip right now. There's even talk of another, international consortium stumping up the cash as I type this. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 20:02, 28 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Forecast – Snow. Sca (talk) 20:12, 28 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support This is a good quality article, and this a rare event (first expulsion of a League club since 1992) which is getting a lot of coverage.-- Pawnkingthree (talk) 20:15, 28 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per Black Kite. -- KTC (talk) 20:22, 28 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Weak Oppose The bankruptcy of Rangers was nominated and rejected back in 2012, and that was an internationally notable football club. Bury is notable on a national scale at the most. NorthernFalcon (talk) 21:01, 28 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per Black Kite, TRM. – Ammarpad (talk) 07:19, 29 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support. I know little of the structure of English football, so take that for what it's worth, but this sounds like a notable story to me. It seems to me it would be like the New York Yankees or Boston Red Sox being kicked out of Major League Baseball for financial reasons. 331dot (talk) 08:19, 29 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@331dot: The main difference is that the New York Yankees and the Boston Red Sox are two of the three most successful teams in the MLB, while Bury F.C. have never won a top-flight title and used to compete in the lower divisions for 90 years. Your comparison would have been fair had Manchester United F.C. or Liverpool F.C. been expelled, which surely would have led to different voting results.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 09:48, 29 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Except Bury are older than both of those clubs and been in league system since before either of those were created. The C of E God Save the Queen! (talk) 11:16, 29 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
If Trump (aged 73) is shot tomorrow, it will be a snow post blurb. If a 90-year old mayor of a city of 10,000 was, unlikely. Older is not more notable. Juxlos (talk) 12:57, 29 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Apart from the fact that they have never won a top-flight title and were deeply in the lower divisions for a long time, no other indication on notability, such as being the oldest club in the league system, has been made in support of this nomination (note that there are more than 5,000 clubs in the English Football League).--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 09:57, 29 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. This is a minor team ending the last seasons as number 68 and 70 overall in the English football league system after playing in tier 3 and 4. PrimeHunter (talk) 10:13, 29 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - very sad news for footballing fans, as TRM alludes to, but Bury has not been a club of the highest calibre since their FA Cup victories more than a century ago. That puts them firmly in the camp of historic club, but not one that is relevant on an international (or ITN) stage nowadays, unfortunately. Stormy clouds (talk) 11:28, 29 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose – Looks like 2:1 against – evidently no consensus re significance. – Sca (talk) 14:33, 29 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Nominator's comments: This is where the current event is best covered. It may help dispel misunderstandings about the process. It would make a change from the Brexit article. All the best: RichFarmbrough, 15:05, 28 August 2019 (UTC).[reply]
Support as nominator. All the best: RichFarmbrough, 15:05, 28 August 2019 (UTC).[reply]
Oppose This is only news because of Brexit context (which is already in Ongoing). If this was 2014 or any other year, this ITN would be the equivalent of posting "School's off for summer". Juxlos (talk) 15:20, 28 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose as Brexit has just been posted to Ongoing, which is sufficient.-- Pawnkingthree (talk) 15:24, 28 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose with Brexit in ongoing. --Masem (t) 15:29, 28 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Blurb is a bit clunky Rockin 19:50, 28 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose It's an internal political maneuver tied to Brexit. The real story will (probably) be on Oct 31. Stay tuned. -Ad Orientem (talk) 19:54, 28 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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Nominator's comments: Brexit is kicking off again and this will intensify as the Halloween deadline approaches. The current action is at Prorogation in the United Kingdom but there's talk of a constitutional crisis and so the matter may move to the courts and elsewhere. Putting Brexit back into Ongoing would be a flexible way of covering developments. Andrew D. (talk) 12:56, 28 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support. This is clearly going to be a big story, at least for the next couple weeks, if not right up to October 31st. 331dot (talk) 12:59, 28 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support I was thinking of nominating Boris Johnson's intent to prorogue Parliament as a blurb, but this is perhaps more appropriate.-- Pawnkingthree (talk) 13:17, 28 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support article quality is sufficient, and the story is a major, but multifaceted story that would be difficult to write an all-encompassing blurb for. This is pretty much exactly what ongoing is for. This story is likely to be a top headline, and evolving quickly, for the some time. --Jayron32 13:18, 28 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support Big story and a robust article. Plus if we keep this as an ongoing event then there may be less debate over whether or not to accept nominations for smaller Brexit-related events for ITN. -mike_gigs (talk) 13:33, 28 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support - Even as UK-centric as this news is, it's a big story that merits the ongoing coverage.--WaltCip (talk) 14:05, 28 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support - there and back again, exactly where we started after 5 months. Juxlos (talk) 14:13, 28 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Clear support, also ongoing is a better choise than finding a single blurb. Posting. --Tone 14:52, 28 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Not that unusual (except for the fact Brexit is about to happen just once) [16]BBC royal correspondent Jonny Dymond said it was established precedent to prorogue Parliament before a Queen's Speech, albeit generally more briefly, and rarely, if ever, at such a constitutionally charged time. --Pudeo (talk) 18:08, 28 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Weak Support The real story is going to be at the end of October and that will be a blurb. But there is enough news for the moment that we could do ongoing. Will have to see if it can be sustained. -Ad Orientem (talk) 19:56, 28 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Post-posting support per above. Davey2116 (talk) 22:38, 28 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Poat-posting aupport obviously far too many different and changing facets for a blurb, exactly what ongoing is for. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 09:51, 29 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Post-posting support, although we may soon need to address again the problem that got it removed some time ago (arguably wrongly, at least in my view, tho others may understandably disagree), when updates for the most recent events were being made to some of the many daughter articles rather than to the main article. Tlhslobus (talk) 17:37, 1 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
(Closed) Tropical Storm Dorian (2019)
No consensus, as it is too early for this in the news.--Wyatt2049 | (talk) 12:18, 29 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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Nominator's comments: Tropical storm Dorian is about to hit Puerto Rico. It will then hit Florida and likely cause damage. Wyatt2049 | (talk) 16:07, 28 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose – Known effects thus far in the Caribbean don't meet ITN levels and we don't post weather events based on forecasts. Revisit down the road if major impacts occur. ~ Cyclonebiskit (chat) 18:58, 28 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Wait Its only supposed to hit around as a Cat 2 storm, so we really should wait to see what damage may occur. --Masem (t) 19:05, 28 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. Nothing has happened yet; ongoing is not for weather events in progress, especially when there are not yet any effects yet. 331dot (talk) 20:02, 28 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose ongoing, wait to see if a blurb would be appropriate - Better to post after it hits, as any blurb of a tropical cyclone should mention the effects that the cyclone had. We don't know yet, so I'd recommend revisiting this later this week or over the weekend. I wouldn't rule out the possibility that it could be an especially destructive storm after making multiple landfalls (even Hurricane Nate was just a Category 1), but Wikipedia is not a crystal ball. VanillaWizard💙 22:08, 28 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Wait I'm not exactly sure why, but we never do hurricanes as ongoing. It's clearly pre-mature for a blurb. My crystal ball does say there's a 50-50 chance we'll be posting this later on.
Oppose. Right now Dorian hasn't had a significant impact yet, and we can't predict the future. Johndavies837 (talk) 23:26, 28 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose No significant impact at the moment, may update later-- BoothSift 02:01, 29 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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Jair Messias Bolsonaro is open to accepting financial aid from organizations and foreign countries to help fight fires in the Amazon rainforest on the condition that the funds must be under the country's control. (Gulf News)
An
Beijing International Airport. Passengers and crew successfully evacuate, but the aircraft is severely damaged. (Simple Flying)
Federal Aviation Authority seeking the plane's certification. With nearly 400 jets grounded worldwide since March, lawyers representing Avia say they are discussing the possibility of joining the litigation with other companies. (CityNews Vancouver)
An appeals court in Ontario, Canada overturns the terror convictions of Raed Jaser and Chiheb Esseghaier, citing an error by the trial judge regarding jury selection. A new trial is expected to take place. (BBC News)
English association football club Bury F.C., who were in EFL League One, are expelled from the English Football League (EFL) after a takeover bid to save the club collapses. Fellow EFL League One club and local rivals Bolton Wanderers F.C. are given an extra 14 days to avoid being expelled due to financial difficulty. EFL executive chair Debbie Jevans calls the expulsion of Bury F.C. "one of the darkest days in the league's recent history". (BBC News)
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: New article. Thailand's foremost food writer, singer, television personality, etc. Paul_012 (talk) 23:41, 28 August 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
Support – Looks good to me. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 07:54, 30 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The Federal Cartel Office in Germany announced that it will appeal a decision by a regional court that suspended its restrictions on Facebook's activities. The appeal will bring the dispute, over underlying privacy issues, to the attention of the country's highest court. (Reuters)
An Oklahoma district court finds Johnson & Johnson liable for exacerbating opioid addiction in the state, and fines them US$572 million. The company announces it will appeal. (Reuters)
CommentDiplomatTesterMan, here we only discuss the article quality and major problems, not the notability (as the template above says). Please cite the awards section. The article looks good.--DBigXrayᗙ 16:00, 31 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
SupportThanks for the update. The article is ready IMHO. I have supported the nom. --DBigXrayᗙ 16:24, 31 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: Needs copyediting (e.g. "She had 33 years of a scintillating career behind her.") and more references in the career section. SpencerT•C 02:46, 2 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Needs more copyediting, as well as editing to reduce close paraphrasing from source material. @DiplomatTesterMan:, @DBigXray: I'll fix what I can and leave some additional questions on the talk page, if either of you could assist with those. SpencerT•C 15:28, 2 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Weak Oppose The sourcing looks good, but I think the lead needs to be reorganized to give a better explanation of all the reasons he is notable. It currently includes his political work, but not his academic work. Also, his involvement in politics does not seem to be explained in the "Biography" section. Rockphed (talk) 17:34, 27 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Rockphed: I've now greatly expanded the career section and almost doubled the length of the article. Please check again. Thanks, -Zanhe (talk) 23:04, 27 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Wow, that is much better. My support (at this point) is pro-forma.Rockphed (talk) 12:19, 28 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support - thanks CAPTAIN MEDUSA for nominating this. I was planning to nominate it myself after finishing working on it. It's now done and I think ready for ITN. Also added Huangdan2060 as an updater. -Zanhe (talk) 23:00, 27 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support – Added the missing refs. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 07:35, 28 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Weak oppose Lacks depth of coverage as to what he accomplished in his political career, but otherwise sourced. SpencerT•C 23:49, 28 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
(Closed) Indonesian capital move
WP:SNOW'ed, renominate when confirmed by parliament. Banedon (talk) 23:41, 28 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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Nominator's comments: It hasn't "happened" yet, but the process is gradual and going to take 10 years, so nominating now. Banedon (talk) 02:27, 27 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: There are probably only three reasonable possible times for this to go up – either now, when the parliament approves the move, or when it is complete in 10 years or so. — MarkH21 (talk) 03:10, 27 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I'd suggest that it would be reasonable to post this both when Parliament approves it, and when the move is complete. Ten years is a long time. NorthernFalcon (talk) 20:25, 27 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Opposeannouncing plans. Although when concrete decisions are made, this is very notable. Peace time capital transfers are rare, and just off the top of my head are limited to Brazil and Pakistan in recent history.130.233.3.90 (talk) 05:59, 27 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Don’t forget Myanmar, Kazakhstan, and a host of post-independence sub-Saharan African nations (like Nigeria and the Ivory Coast)! — MarkH21 (talk) 06:44, 27 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Per above, wait until a better time-- BoothSift 06:06, 27 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose for now. Good faith nom, but wait until it happens (if it does). LugnutsFire Walk with Me 09:10, 27 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - for now he has plans to move the capital but it hasn't been done. Maybe after it has been moved.___CAPTAIN MEDUSAtalk 11:10, 27 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Counterpoint Assuming that editors agree the story is worth posting but only question is when, I'd suggest this may be the stage most likely to be "in the news." Unless opposition is expected, the parliamentary vote may be seen as an "old news" rubber stamping. And the move itself could be quite drawn out. GreatCaesarsGhost 13:29, 27 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
To me, the right point to post something lke this is when all government bodies needed have voted/signed off to initiate the process, making it a sure thing to happen. Yes, the move may take years, and when the move is formally completed that also may be ITN. And there also may be lawsuits or other citizen actions that slow it down or stall it. Comparing this to business news, this would like posting when two companies have obtained their shareholders' votes to merge being the point to post, but before necessary regulatory action to approve it. --Masem (t) 13:44, 27 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support – A sprawling megalopolis of 10 million to lose its status as the capital of a far-flung country of 260 million? That's big news in anyone's book. (Four sources added above.) – Sca (talk) 14:01, 27 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support I believe this is the time to post. Does anyone know how long the formalities will take? If it's a few weeks, then we could wait, but as GCG said, this is the point when the most eyes will be on this story. Davey2116 (talk) 16:53, 27 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Looking at the Jakarta post article, this still needs to be formalized into a bill and pass the Indonesian legislature. That is the time to post. Rockphed (talk) 17:24, 27 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
SupportWe can't wait until 2030 to publish this story. It's a presidential executive decision in a presidential system: in April he decided to do it, and now he decides to where it will move (between
Kutai Kartanegara, near Balikpapan and Samarinda). For anyone who has read sources, the urgency is clear: crowded Jakarta is sinking. The next big steps are the name, the bill annex budget (now $33 bn), the start of construction (2020), the start of relocation (2024) and the end of relocation (around 2030). The Vice President just today announced that Parliament needs to detail the plan and approve it [22], but is there a hint of a political opposing voice yet? (Did anyone express any serious argument yet – except those into orangutan and rainforest conservation activism – however orangutans can't vote and indigenous people weren't consulted?) I'm unhappy to say it, but I'd consider it almost a done thing. Wakari07 (talk) 19:56, 27 August 2019 (UTC) Update: I found exactly one dissenting voice in parliament, in the Nikkei Asian Review. It prudently called last week not to "throw away money only for the sake of something unclear, only for the sake of reputation". Wakari07 (talk) 00:17, 28 August 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
Oppose. Wait until the Indonesian legislature approves the move.
Oppose per above comments on how it would be more appropriate to post this as a news item once the plan is actually approved. – PhilipTerryGraham (talk·articles·reviews) 00:00, 28 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Wait until it actually happens. Mjroots (talk) 06:34, 28 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Wait - I am not opposing it but Wait. This will not be realised until 2024 and a lot can happen until then.BabbaQ (talk) 06:39, 28 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - as much as this is notable, it's currently a plan - when it becomes law, we can post a blurb that says: Indonesia's parliament approves President Joko Widodo's plan to move the Capital of Indonesia from Jakarta to East KalimantanJuxlos (talk) 13:49, 28 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Cuban-American fashion designer (whose clients included Michelle Obama) dies at age 59. Short article, more refs needed. Davey2116 (talk) 02:23, 27 August 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
Oppose – I have tagged the issues I found. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 05:26, 27 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: A fair number of unsourced statements that will of course need to be addressed before posting; NYT obit may help with this. IntoThinAir (talk) 00:04, 27 August 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
Oppose – I have tagged issues I found. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 05:25, 27 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
You appear to have been reverted. It does need more references though. The "Notable Games" section may be an issue as well as it's not clear in such sections what selection criteria are being used.-- Pawnkingthree (talk) 20:25, 27 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support I have cited everything. I recall Robert Morgenthau had the same "notable cases" problem, but it was solved by changing 'notable' to 'selected'. Davey2116 (talk) 23:56, 28 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support It could use more work, but fine for RD. The 'notable/selected/illustrative games' sections have been an issue in the past. If that is an issue here, the section could be removed and copied to the talk page until more references are added to prevent it being an indiscriminate list. Hrodvarsson (talk) 03:03, 29 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support I'm not familiar with the prior debate on this, but the games section seems fine. GreatCaesarsGhost 11:37, 29 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
This has been ready for some time, any admins around?-- Pawnkingthree (talk) 12:29, 30 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Watson was implicated in the ongoing South African State Capture controversy. He was the CEO of Bosasa, a company that bribed senior government officials. Article is currently being expanded. Lefcentreright (talk) 17:19, 26 August 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
Oppose – This is a stub in disguise (Early life, some criminal implications? and death). Also uses a primary source redacted court document (Ref #1) and an unreliable (Ref #2). This is not a BIO. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 05:15, 27 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support seems fine to me - we've posted way worse. Primary sources are not inherently objectionable, and the claim tied to ref #2 is covered by the many secondary sources cited. GreatCaesarsGhost 13:46, 27 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
It is missing a career section. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 04:45, 28 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support - seems decent enough for RD,BabbaQ (talk) 22:35, 27 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per C&C, it's not sufficient in depth to cover the whole career, just a section on some purported criminal activity is undue and doesn't constitute a suitable biography for main page inclusion. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 07:00, 28 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support (both blurbs) The only event of its kind in Badminton. BWF is the sole international badminton org with 191 member countries. BBC also covered the event. --DBigXrayᗙ 06:27, 26 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - The BWF World Championships consist of men's and women's singles and men's, women's and mixed doubles events; why is the winner of women's singles event the only one mentioned? Also, is being the first <nationality> at winning something enough to warrant mention in ITN? -
Vishal dh good point. Do you have an alternative blurb in mind ? --DBigXrayᗙ 06:38, 26 August 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
Added to box adapting the formula used for the tennis French Open. The article for the 2019 BWF World Championships isn't great though, just a bunch of lists and stats.
Oppose If we target the athlete, I don't think this sort of thing merits being posted on ITN. The event article, which should be the target, has 2 sentences of text and 3 pages of tables. Even if the article gets fixed, I would only support the alt blurb. Rockphed (talk) 13:07, 26 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Comment – The BWF article is not an article – "a piece of writing" – in the usual sense, and not suitable as a target. I leave the nominated target,
P.V. Sindhu, to our seasoned corps of sports cognoscenti to judge. – Sca (talk) 13:26, 26 August 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
Oppose I think that it is appropriate here to use the event as the featured article (alt blurb), but unfortunately I think it's fairly underdeveloped and not fit to be featured, per The Rambling Man mike_gigs. (talk) 16:52, 26 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Per others -- BoothSift 06:06, 27 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Hezbollah says two Israelidrones went down in the Moawwad neighborhood of Dahieh (South Beirut), Lebanon, and they did not shoot them. A small reconnaissance drone fell on the roof of the Hezbollah media building, then another drone exploded nearby, causing damage to the building. Residents report a loud blast. The Israeli Army says it does not comment on "foreign reports". The Lebanese Army confirms the drones as Israeli. (AP News)(Al Jazeera)(Reuters)
In an escalation of the ongoing protests, a police officer fires a gun whilst clearing protesters; this is the first time a gun has been fired by a police officer in Hong Kong since 1967. (The Guardian)
Disasters and accidents
A helicopter and an ultralight airplane plane collide near the town of Inca, on the island of Mallorca, Spain, killing seven people including two children, according to regional government officials. (Sky News)
Lightning strikes on at least two Alaska Airlines planes force them to make emergency landings in Southeast Alaska. Lightning also knocked out electrical service to the state capital, Juneau. (Kfsk)
That makes sense. Tidier than using three direct links. Good to go! InedibleHulk(talk) 01:00, 26 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support sadly no reason not to post. Not the world's biggest fan of promoting capital punishment, but we have no policy around that, so it's good to go. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 07:19, 26 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Crowds gather in Port Moresby, Papua New Guinea, to show solidarity and to campaign for the freedom of West Papua, which is under Indonesian control. Meanwhile, churches push the government of Papua New Guinea to take a firm stand on the situation. (Radio New Zealand)
Voters in Nauru go to the polls to elect new members of parliament. PresidentBaron Waqa loses his parliamentary seat so he is not able to be re-elected in the office he has been holding since 2013. (ABC News)(ABC News)
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: C Class article with good sourcing DBigXrayᗙ 07:50, 24 August 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
Strong Support: Between 1999-2019, He is either cabinet minister of Union government or leader of opposition in parliament of India. Very remarkable politician. --Pavan santhosh.s (talk) 09:41, 24 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Pavan santhosh.sPharaoh of the Wizards Please note that notability is not at issue for Recent Deaths nominations; the only purpose of this discussion is to judge article quality. 331dot (talk) 10:24, 24 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I know after the RFC only the quality of the article and just giving my support briefly.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 10:31, 24 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Pharaoh of the Wizards, 331dot wants you to talk about the article quality (or problems if any) which you haven't yet done. any comment that underlines the notability is useless here, this isn't AfD. cheers. --DBigXrayᗙ 11:17, 24 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks I agree with you have updated the lead.Will be precise in futurePharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 11:38, 24 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose at the moment. It's mostly there, but there are some unsourced claims (Vajpayee Govt section), some problematic grammar (" He demitted the office of the Minister for Shipping with effect from 1 September 2001 and as Union Minister of Law, Justice and Company Affairs on 1 July 2002 to join as a General Secretary of the BJP and its national spokesman"?) The last paragraph of the 2004-2014 section looks like we're criticising Jaitley in Wikipedia's voice. Some parts aren't clear to anyone not familiar with Indian politics ("he played a vital role during the talks of the Women Reservation Bill in the Rajya Sabha and also supported Anna Hazare for the Jan Lokpal Bill" or "On June 20, 2017, he reaffirmed that the GST rollout is well and truly on track."). Black Kite (talk) 11:26, 24 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Working to fix above, Black Kite, thanks for the review. regards--DBigXrayᗙ 11:28, 24 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's comments: Full Media coverage such as Israeli source (Time of Israel and haaretz), Fox new, Guardian, BBC and So on, The air strike in the Middle East between influential governments of the region including Israel, Syria and Iran. Saff V. (talk) 11:35, 25 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. Bellow ITN-level threshold. Also, no blurb, which at least would serve as an attempt to establish overall significance. El_C 11:39, 25 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Doesn't suggest any level of human injury to a great degree, and otherwise par for the course for countries in that part of the world. --Masem (t) 14:06, 25 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per above on notability, and per the problematic wording of the proposed blurb (would Iran really have started dronebombing Israel if it weren't for Israel attacking the capital of Syria first??? that may not be how it's intended to be read, but that's what the wording currently seems to suggest) VanillaWizard💙 21:59, 25 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Not even an attempt at neutral point of view with respect to the blurb's wording and sources from one side only. On notability, Israel admits to hundreds (NYT) or thousands (JC) of air strikes in Syria alone. It sounds strange to me that this blurb was proposed after Israel's unprovoked
Call me biased, but if there's one thing neater than a drone crashing where it shouldn't possibly have, it's two of them. If somebody nominates this one, I'm for it. But I'm neutral on whether someone totally should. InedibleHulk(talk) 02:48, 26 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Given that the Beirut attack was the first of its kind since the 2006 Lebanon War, I do see a stronger argument for the notability of that attack than this one. Of course, its proposed blurb would need to lack the glaring POV issues that this one has, but I'm much more inclined to support such a nomination on its merits. The target article for the attack in Lebanon doesn't appear to have any quality issues (aside from how short it currently is). VanillaWizard💙 03:05, 26 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Call me old-fashioned and ignorant, but are we talking intentional Zionist robot kamikaze here or accidental double plane crash? InedibleHulk(talk) 03:26, 26 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
If you're asking about whether it was purposeful or an accident, it's anyone's guess. What we know is that multiple drones flew into Lebanese airspace, crashed into suburbs, and exploded; what we don't know is whether or not Israel intended for that to happen, because they won't comment on it when asked. I still don't have any strong opinions (despite how I'm more open to it than I am with the Syria attack), but it appears that nobody was hurt. VanillaWizard💙 03:43, 26 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
In the meanwhile, I've removed the "attack" parts. When we know, we'll know. If we don't, we won't. InedibleHulk(talk) 03:56, 26 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
If a white supremacist's drone ends up exploding next to my head, how likely is it that it would be judged an accident? Wakari07 (talk) 05:47, 26 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I largely agree with your sentiment there; the only thing that seems to be ambiguous is who/where the intended target was. It's certainly not ambiguous as to whether or not the Israeli military intended to conduct strikes. We just don't know if the drones crashing into buildings how Israel intended to use them. That aspect of the story very well could have been an accident. I would not recommend removing "attack" from the articles. VanillaWizard💙 06:02, 26 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I don't know how or why white supremacists would use expensive drones to hurt you, and I don't know why the first one here didn't explode if it was supposed to (or why the next one did if it wasn't). I just know no sources in the article even suggested an attack when I reflected them. Now some do, so it arguably makes some sense to buy what they're selling. InedibleHulk(talk) 22:42, 26 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
My one drone-minding acquaintance told me the parts needed to build a 5-kg-carrying quadcopter would cost around 1000 € (Is it
planetary mixer" – or whatever. Regards. Wakari07 (talk) 21:09, 27 August 2019 (UTC)[reply
U.S. officials confirm that an airstrike on an Iranian weapons depot in Amirli, Iraq on July 19 that killed two Iranian military commanders was conducted by Israel. The strike is the first known Israeli attack inside Iraq since Operation Opera in 1981. (Voice of America)
President Trump announces an increase in the tariffs set to take effect on September 1, October 1 and December 15, from 10% and 25% to 15% and 30%, respectively. The Office of the United States Trade Representative says it will "begin the process of increasing the tariff rate to 30% effective October 1 following a notice and comment period". (CNN)
Weak Oppose Article looks pretty good, but is still mostly written in the present tense. The biggest problem I have with it is the "Criticism and recognition" section title; the section seems fine, I just think the title is a little off (though I have no idea for a better one). Also, the personal life section has a claim that isn't referenced about his being on a flight that crashed (on the ground it seems). I'm not sure if it is encyclopedic or not and it doesn't seem contentious, so I let it stand. Rockphed (talk) 14:27, 23 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I've added 2 sources for the plane crash. Johndavies837 (talk) 16:52, 23 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I just re-read the whole thing and couldn't find any present tense. I might be overlooking something but could you maybe point out examples? Regards SoWhy 17:55, 23 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support Definitely notable enough. Jokullmusic 19:12, 23 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support "Criticism and recognition" contains criticism and recognition. Concise, precise and properly cased. What's not to love? InedibleHulk(talk) 22:33, 23 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Article at this point is mostly a list in prose format; needs more depth of coverage of the subject. SpencerT•C 12:45, 30 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Bureau of Corrections (BuCor) Director-General Nicanor Faeldon says that former Calauan Mayor Antonio Sanchez is ineligible under a 2013 law that credits good conduct time allowance (GCTA) for an early release from prison. (Philippine Daily Inquirer)
Stale, unimproved. Stephen 04:04, 29 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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Oppose – Sourcing issues including the stats in infobox. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 00:01, 23 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Comment He really isn't a very well known football player, I thought about posting this here, but decided against it because nothing really stood out in his career apart from sadly he died really young. Govvy (talk) 10:29, 23 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
the nomination of any individual human, animal or other biological organism with a standalone Wikipedia article whose recent death is in the news is presumed to be important enough to post. Discussion should focus only on the quality of the article.The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 10:36, 23 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@The Rambling Man: I didn't mean to be rude, I just thought that Agogo wasn't notable enough for inclusion, his page is a little bit messy and a lot of content could probably be added. As for stats in the info box, they are covered by the soccerbase external links. Govvy (talk) 10:49, 23 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I didn't think you were being rude, I simply pointed you to the fact that notability is assumed, quality is all that's important. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 10:55, 23 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Under-sourced. There are no citations for his career in the US or for Bristol Rovers. Pawnkingthree (talk) 11:47, 23 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per Pawnkingthree. C'mon! Basic, basic stuff here!--WaltCip (talk) 12:13, 23 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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Comment I'll bet the recent death of a US Vice-President wouldn't just sit in here in a ready but unposted state for 11 hours. Wikipedia's inherent bias against things in "unimportant" places is fully on display here. HiLo48 (talk) 21:33, 22 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Margrethe II of Denmark expresses surprise at U.S. PresidentDonald Trump's abrupt cancellation of his planned visit to her country. Experts on the royal house call the move an act of "disrespect" as illness is not the apparent cause. (TV2)
United Kingdom consulate in Hong Kong employee Simon Cheng, who was reported missing, is administratively detained for 15 days by Shenzhen police. (CNN)
Thanks Flibirigit, corrected. It doesnt matter for this discussion though. Cheers.--DBigXrayᗙ 16:39, 21 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support: Everything in the article looks reasonably well-referenced, although I did see a slight over-reliance on references #1 and #5 (as 45% of the citations in the article link to one of those two refs, out of 14 total sources). I don't think that's a problem in terms of the article's nomination to RD, but I figured it was worth mentioning just in case. TheHardestAspectOfCreatingAnAccountIsAlwaysTheUsername 18:00, 21 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support – non-traditional style (for section heading) but that is not a concern for ITN. Sourcing is good and not reliant on a single source. Note that Houston & Shoalts is also used, so there are actually 3+ dominant reliable sources. That is more than enough. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 00:26, 22 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support Well done, at least well referenced. Good to go IMO--BoothSiftTalks 02:29, 22 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Start Class article. Sourcing needs workNow excellent sourcing. Elected 10 times, ex CM. Stated "Drinking is a fundamental right", so he was my kind of man. DBigXrayᗙ 06:07, 21 August 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
Oppose As you say, sourcing needs work. It looks like 2/3 of the article is not footnoted. Also, I hope "His education qualification was B.A. LLB" can be expanded. SupportRockphed (talk) 12:14, 21 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose The sourcing definitely needs work at this moment. --BoothSiftTalks 02:28, 22 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Working to resolve the issues. --DBigXrayᗙ 15:54, 23 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Fixed The sourcing issues have now been fixed along with issues pointed above. Please review again. courtesy ping User:Boothsift and Rockphed --DBigXrayᗙ 12:43, 24 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Issues have been fixed, Needs a fresh review.--DBigXrayᗙ 06:03, 26 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Hayat Tahrir al-Sham (HTS) acknowledges "a redeployment" south of the strategic town of Khan Shaykhun. (AP News)
Media close to the government reports that the Syrian Army enters the northern sector of the town of Khan Shaykhun, following the reported HTS withdrawal. (Al-Masdar News)
Nicolás Maduro confirms United States reports that top Venezuelan officials are having secret meetings with members of the Trump administration. Maduro claims that the talks encourage Trump to listen to him; United States sources claim that the talks encourage Maduro supporters to defect. (The Guardian)
Thirty-seven passengers on a bus over Rio–Niterói Bridge, Rio de Janeiro, Brazil, are held hostage before police fatally shoot the armed hijacker. After closer inspection, police discover that the hijacker used a fake plastic gun. (BBC News)(Extra)
Volcker rule is approved by the OCC and the FDIC. The new version eases rules on proprietary trading by Wall Street banks. Consumer groups criticize the rule change, claiming that it removes protections from taxpayers. (Reuters)
a team in St. Louis, Missouri will become the league's 28th team, most likely in 2022. The ownership group, led by several female members of the Taylor family that controls the Enterprise Holdings car rental company, is the first in MLS in which women hold a majority interest. (ESPN)
Comment – The surge marks an 83% increase over the same period of 2018... and is the highest since records began in 2013, according to National Institute for Space Research (Brazilian space agency) via Reuters --- Coffeeandcrumbs 02:18, 22 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support - All referenced and notable Sherenk1 (talk) 05:01, 22 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support Whle these have been going since January, only yesterday/today did the media seem to realize this was a significant problem. --Masem (t) 05:30, 22 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support uh, I guess this is going to impact mankind or entire life on earth. --DBigXrayᗙ 12:01, 22 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support as an "Ongoing" event. --Bageense(disc.) 15:04, 22 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
It should go up as a blurb (it has been ready for 6 hours or more) and if the event is still taking place when the blurb gets to the bottom of the template, it can then (at the discretion of an admin) be transferred into Ongoing rather than just roll off. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 15:07, 22 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
WP:IAR. Yes, I know it's my own nomination, but I didn't contribute to the article, consensus here is clear, and nobody else seems to be around. Vanamonde (Talk) 15:24, 22 August 2019 (UTC)[reply
Nominator's comments: Another Italian government kicks the bucket. Davey2116 (talk) 16:38, 20 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Comment If I am reading these articles right, this is the announcement of the plan to resign. If that's right, let's wait until he actually does. --Masem (t) 16:49, 20 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Weak Oppose (for now) I agree with Masem: when he actually does announce, this would be better to post (pending the update of his wiki article) --mike_gigs (talk) 17:15, 20 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose As I understand things, this is just a formality preliminary to a general election. The election and any change in government is what we would post. -Ad Orientem (talk) 17:21, 20 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Removed the ITNR tag - "Changes to the head of government are discussed on their own merits." GreatCaesarsGhost 17:36, 20 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Comment – He's "tendered his resignation," but has been asked to stay on as a caretaker PM until ... the ice cream melts? A separate article on 2019 Italian Political Crisis would be appropriate. (Ongoing?) – Sca (talk) 20:31, 20 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose local politics; userbase bias. Italy is a country of 60 million people and is not a great power. We can't possibly post every time some government resigns in some country somewhere in the world. 5.44.170.9 (talk) 21:27, 20 August 2019 (UTC) blocked IP sock[reply]
Of course we can. Opposing based on population and perception of "great power"ness is absurd. This will, however, be posted once a new head is elected. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 22:34, 20 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
For example, the UK and France are both permanent security council members, yet they have "small" populations as well. Your reasoning is really absurd. --BoothSiftTalks 06:19, 21 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
In response to the IP editor, we post about every country, big or small. That said, it's bizarre to consider Italy - the 23rd largest by population out of 193 UN member states - to be too irrelevant for ITN. That would be an example of what you call "userbase bias." Cheers, VanillaWizard💙 07:44, 21 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose For now until he actually resigns--BoothSiftTalks 06:19, 21 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I have no strong opinions waiting until the resignation actually occurs, but I do recall us posting Theresa May's intentions to resign long before she officially did so & certainly before the leadership election produced a replacement. VanillaWizard💙 07:34, 21 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
That nom was quite contentious for the same reasons. The supporters largely argued that the breadth and depth of coverage was the reason to post, which I find specious. Of course the big anglophone countries are going to get more media coverage - due to the media bias that we seek to ignore in our decision making. GreatCaesarsGhost 11:42, 22 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Question: does anyone know how long it is likely to take to select the successor? I'm hesitant to post the same story twice in rapid succession, but a change of PM in a G8 country is important enough for ITN and it's in the mainstream media now. If the process will take more than a couple of weeks, I support a blurb that says 'announces his intention to resign once a successor has been selected' or similar wording. If a successor will be in place faster than that, I prefer to wait for a combined blurb. Modest Geniustalk 11:13, 21 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Without having spend the effort to actually see what is going on, it looks like the last PM to resign mid-term took 3 days between announcement and resignation. The PM before that tendered resignation 13 Feb 2014, had it accepted on 14 Feb, Matteo Renzi formed a government on the 21st, was sworn in on the 22th, and received parliamentary support on the 25th. So we probably have about 2 weeks before the new PM takes office and this leaves the news. Then again, it might result in a new general election which will take months to sort everything out. As a note, the last time an Italian PM resigned without a general election we didn't post the resignation but did post the replacement.Rockphed (talk) 13:03, 21 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Part of the problem is that Italian prime ministers resign with numbing regularity – there have been nearly 60 since WWII. – Sca (talk) 14:49, 21 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The Italian president said tonight that he gives the parties four days to talk. He said that Tuesday, he'll have new consultations (implying he'll then make a new declaration on either an alternative majority or new elections). But I guess he could also announce that he needs more time...Wakari07 (talk) 22:01, 22 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
SupportWe can't wait until the ice caps melt. This is a major, ongoing political crisis in a major country. Wakari07 (talk) 22:38, 22 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
+Comment The article to be linked to is Conte Cabinet. I briefly updated it for the events after 20 August 15:00 GMT, that is after Conte expressed in the Senate his intention to resign. Wakari07 (talk) 03:03, 23 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support. Now that he has officially resigned, it's ITN worthy. Despite the fact that Italian governments tend to change more often than people change their underwear. Regards SoWhy 07:42, 23 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Coalition governments are fragile by their nature, making their collapse a fairly routine occurrence in the parliamentary system. No rationale has been brought forth to justify why this is special. GreatCaesarsGhost 17:00, 23 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
That is a fairly unjust generalization imho. Germany has had coalition governments since 1949 and maybe a single one could have said to have "collapsed" (Schmidt, 1982). Regards SoWhy 17:44, 23 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I'll remember that when the nom concerns Germany. My point is that (globally) a PM resigning is a routine event, which usually triggers a ITNR election. So posting the resignation means a double post, and that should require something special. There is no special here - just a weak coalition falling apart as weak coalitions do. If the only rationale is "Italy is an important country" that's a slippery slope. And Italy changes PMs like most people change socks. GreatCaesarsGhost 20:26, 25 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
This chaos/crisis is special because it makes headlines for weeks now. [29][30] Investors are in an odd wait-and-see lethargy. [31] It's also unique that "If the country does head to new polls in the coming months, the current parliamentary term would become the shortest in Italian republican history." [32]. Plus: the entire Senate was recalled from recess [33], and if elections are decided it would be the first time they'd be held in autumn or winter [34] etc. Of course, Salvini has the poll numbers in mind. For me, it's like
WP:Snow in summer. Wakari07 (talk) 19:31, 23 August 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
Support - resignation of the head of the government of a G7 country is definitely ITN-worthy. Whether it's a coalition government or not is irrelevant. -Zanhe (talk) 21:44, 24 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Suggest Close because the eventual new nomination will have a different target article, wording, effective date, etc.130.233.3.90 (talk) 11:25, 26 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Agree. Stale. Sca (talk) 13:54, 27 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Will be archived automatically in a few hours anyway, but Prez Mattarella has reserved tomorrow for more talks [35]. We can then probably complement the proposed blurb with early elections or a different coalition (Conte?) government. Stay tuned 🧐 Wakari07 (talk) 16:55, 27 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
(Closed) Interstellar iron-60 detected in Antarctic snow
Closed per
WP:SNOW. Consensus indicates posting is not likely. (non-admin closure) INeedSupport:V 20:11, 21 August 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
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Oppose. Interstellar 60Fe on Earth was discovered 20 years ago [36] and has been confirmed several times e.g. [37]. Finding it in Antarctic snow rather than sea floor sediments does not justify an ITN blurb. Modest Geniustalk 12:13, 20 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per Modest Genius. The discovery on Earth would have been ITN-worthy but confirming its presence in the snow of Antarctica is not.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 19:22, 20 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose No need for this to be include in ITN as per MG--BoothSiftTalks 06:18, 21 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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Turkish military convoy driving through the rebel-held region of Idlib, reportedly causing several casualties and forcing it to stop. Turkey claims the convoy was aiming to supply observation posts, while Syria accuses it of carrying weapons and ammunition to rebel groups. (BBC News)(The National)
66 people, including children, have been wounded after a series of ten explosions in restaurants and public squares hit the eastern Afghan city of Jalalabad, as the country marked the 100th anniversary of its independence from British rule. No group claimed responsibility for the bombings. Even if many bombs exploded and several people were injured, no one died in the attacks. (Al Jazeera)
Insurgency in the Maghreb
Suspected Islamist militants launch an attack on a Burkina Faso Armed Forces unit, killing 24 Burkinabé soldiers and wounding 7 others, the heaviest loss for the army in its fight to contain Islamist terrorism. The army said it had launched a land and air operation in response to the attack. (Reuters)
Disasters and accidents
2019 Brazil wildfires
After fifteen days of raging fires in the
Amazon Forest in Rondônia, thick smoke clouds cover the Brazilian city of São Paulo in darkness. Street lamps had to be lit in the city around 2PM. The fires, suspected to be intentional, are still burning the forest. (G1)
Evelyn Hernández is acquitted of murder after her newly-born child was found deceased in a toilet. The ruling is being held as a landmark case decision for women's rights in
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Start Class excellent sourcing. Our article may be short but it is beyond the stub criteria and has all the relevant public info on the ex mayor. DBigXrayᗙ 07:59, 22 August 2019 (UTC)[reply
Oppose Well referenced but does not meet minimum content standards for RD in terms of subsections and depth of content. SpencerT•C 20:55, 25 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
User:Spencer Thank you for the kind review, please guide me to the relevant standard for RD that states this. IMHO this is not a stub and the content covers the subject's life. Whatever public information we have on the subject is already added, what do we do now ? --DBigXrayᗙ 06:12, 26 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
My standards are to have at minimum 3 fleshed-out paragraphs with appropriate depth of coverage for the key aspects that made the person notable. Not everyone who has a non-stub article on Wikipedia will have an article that meets completeness standards for RD. For this person in particular, there is a list of political roles that he served in (Mayor, City Council Member), but no information about what he accomplished in those roles. Local sources - which are likely harder to access - could potentially have more information. SpencerT•C 15:45, 26 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Article is fully sourced. Died on 13 August, but announced on 19th. Zanhe (talk) 07:39, 20 August 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
Comment The article appears to be in good shape, however, 3 of the 4 sources are in Chinese with no obvious translations available. It would be appropriate that a native bilingual check before posting.130.233.3.115 (talk) 07:51, 20 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
He is mentioned in plenty of English sources, but I haven't added them because they're not detailed enough. See this book, for example, which does mention some of his major positions. -Zanhe (talk) 08:17, 20 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Start Class article. Sourcing needs workNow Excellent sourcing. Music composer. DBigXrayᗙ 18:25, 19 August 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
Oppose Entire paragraphs are unreferenced, including the entire Early Life section as I am aware. You are indeed correct that sourcing needs work. --BoothSiftTalks 00:15, 20 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support Nice work-- BoothSift 21:58, 22 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support Notable singer of India who left a good legacy. However, I agree that paragraphs need sourcing as person is recently passed away.—
Weak support I'm switching to "ws" because the amount of work done has been excellent, the article needs a serious copyedit and a proseline assassination attempt, but it's far better than it was. Great work. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 18:42, 22 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support One of the best known music composers of India who has received state funerals and numerous national awards during his career Manish2542 (talk) 19:42, 20 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose – Sourcing issues in the article. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 00:31, 22 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks folks for your kind review. I understand that all the controversial (or challengable) facts in a BLP need sources. Several editors are working to improve this page. It will be helpful for all of us, if you can add Cn tags in the article or point them here or on the talk page. regards. --DBigXrayᗙ 06:56, 22 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
User:Coffeeandcrumbs--DBigXrayᗙ 17:14, 22 August 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
Support – Marked ready. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 23:38, 22 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
C Twelve hours and still waiting. --DBigXrayᗙ 11:59, 23 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Posted to RD. Could use some more copyediting and sections in careers, but meets minimum standards and there is consensus to post. SpencerT•C 12:29, 23 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Tense problems and general language issues throughout. Many terms ("lahks[lots?] of teachers", "mince his words", "the Center", "draconian", etc.) are not understood outside of India, editorial, or otherwise problematic. Many of the claims, especially in the lede, seem hagiographical, and I am not in a position to know whether they are true because there is no source for them. I assume that the suffix "-ji" to a name indicates then unsuffixed person in the Bihar Press Bill section; this makes for rather confusing reading. The Publications section is lacking entirely. It's a little suspicious that someone with so long a publication history would not have a single reference to even one.130.233.3.115 (talk) 10:14, 19 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Working
WP:BIAS. I am working to fix your other concerns as well. Some help in copy editing will be appreciated. --DBigXrayᗙ 10:30, 19 August 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
Fixed the issues have been fixed. Kindly review the article again. --DBigXrayᗙ 12:59, 25 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Posted to RD. Adequately updated and sourced; and prose is improved. SpencerT•C 20:52, 25 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
ISIL claims responsibility for a terrorist attack against a wedding party in Afghanistan the day prior, which left 63 people dead and over 200 injured. (The Guardian)
Grace 1. They argue that EU, not U.S. law, is applicable in Gibraltar. The tanker is also renamed. (Al Arabiya)
Politics and elections
2019 Hong Kong anti-extradition bill protests
The organizers claim that at least 1.7 million people join a peaceful rally in Victoria Park, Hong Kong. Protesters spill into nearby streets, with train service intermittently suspended due to the sheer number of people. (The Guardian)
(Closed) US missile test
No consensus to post. Stephen 22:55, 25 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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Nominator's comments: The US has recently withdrawn from this significant Cold War-era treaty. Hawkeye7(discuss) 21:37, 21 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose We just posted the withdrawl. And it was known that the US was getting ready to do this test ASAP after the withdrawl. Not a significant event for ITN. --Masem (t) 21:46, 21 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Weak support. Yes, we did post the US withdrawal from the ITN recently. But I don't think it was clear then or was a given that U.S. will quickly resume testing that had been prohibited by the ITN, and the consequences of such a possible resumption were not clear as well. For example, it was possible that there would be a push of some sort to conclude a new treaty. However, on Aug 22, after the U.S. test, there was a UN Security Council meeting[38], called by China and Russia, and it became apparent that nobody is in the mood to push for a new treaty. China then explicitly stated that it is not interested in negotiations for a potential new treaty [39]. Then Putin ordered the Russian military to prepare a "symmetrical response" to the U.S. test [40]. So now it appears that a period of a missile arms race will follow. That seems significant enough to me. Nsk92 (talk) 17:09, 23 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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(Closed) Jack Whitaker
Now stale.
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Fixed thank you. I have referenced that claim now.--DBigXrayᗙ 09:40, 22 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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(Closed) Kathleen Blanco
Now stale.
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Article needs updating Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: American politician, former governor of Louisiana (2004–08) dies at age 76. Article needs lots of work. Davey2116 (talk) 00:06, 19 August 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
Oppose Not in close shape for posting. --Masem (t) 00:21, 19 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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(Closed) 2019 Canary Islands wildfires
No consensus to post. Stephen 22:54, 25 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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Nominator's comments: This is a significant event in Spain; it is being covered by all national news outlets as well as significant international ones. In addition, the Canary Islands are a popular summer tourist destination, although tourism has not yet been affected by the events.
Oppose local event that happens commonly, without casualty figure or anyother reason that makes it notable of blurb. --DBigXrayᗙ 10:10, 19 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Comment – Some 8,000 evacuated; fires said to be "out of control," spreading. (Two sources added.) – Sca (talk) 13:37, 19 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Should this cause significant damage then it would make sense to post, but just the existence of wildfires or the evacuation order isn't sufficient for posting. --Masem (t) 16:42, 19 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Wait As of right now it has not yet caused sufficient damage to be internationally notable. However, if the fire threatens a major population centre, or if the fire destroys the UNESCO site on Gran Canaria, then that would change. And I will note that the fire is rather close to both of those. NorthernFalcon (talk) 18:13, 19 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Wait – No fatalities (yet), but this 24,000-acre (38 sq. mi.) wildfire remains out of control despite 1,000 firefighters and 14 water-dropping helicopters and planes. By any standard – including those of the Western U.S. – that's major. Let's keep an eye on it. – Sca (talk) 14:01, 20 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
PS: Possibly a candidate for Ongoing. – Sca (talk) 14:05, 20 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support Didn't take long for the California fires to be posted, as I remember that was before reports of people dying, and I think a good part of an entire island with threats to a WHS is more important internationally and historically than celebrities' houses, as sad as any kind of destruction is.
And I'm pretty sure the Tenerife fire on the 18/19 was actually within the Teide UNESCO WHS already. Kingsif (talk) 17:26, 20 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Kingsif: fwiw the California wildfires in November 2018 (I'm assuming its these, specifically the Woolsey Fire because of the celebrity homes) were posted with 25 confirmed deaths and the near-total destruction of Paradise, CA in the Camp Fire. It was nominated when the destruction became evident, and the deaths were confirmed by the time it gained support for posting. ~ Cyclonebiskit (chat) 09:59, 21 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Which is fair and sad, but a wildfire in one of two island volcano WHS (not caused by the volcano) and another WHS that only got designated this year is also pretty tragic, whether there's people killed or towns destroyed. Kingsif (talk) 14:04, 21 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Comment – Number of evacuated grown to 9000, affected area grown to 10,000 ha (over 6% of the entire island). Article updated to reflect latest information.
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
63 people are killed and 182 wounded in a suicide attack at a wedding party in Kabul, Afghanistan. The attacker set off explosives among the invitees. (Al Arabiya)
Politics and elections
Aftermath of the
2018–19 Sudanese protests
The ruling military and the civilian opposition formally sign a power-sharing deal establishing a three-year transition period towards the election of a civilian government. (Al Jazeera)
2019 Hong Kong anti-extradition bill protests
Thousands of school teachers join the 11th weekend of anti-government protests in Hong Kong. (Reuters)
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Comedina frequently on Carson, but probably his legacy is the pun-filled song "Wet Dream". Article is almost there, releases need sources. While died on 13th, family only just announced his death on 17th. Masem (t) 15:46, 18 August 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
Support from this Dementoid. Newyorkbrad (talk) 16:53, 18 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose article looks incomplete (mainly about personal life) and insufficiently sourced. -Zanhe (talk) 01:47, 19 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support alt blurb. This news is the headline of every news site across the world. --DBigXrayᗙ 11:22, 18 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support - headline news.BabbaQ (talk) 12:48, 18 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support – in principle due to high mortality. However, two-thirds of the current article consists of comments from assembled notables, while descriptive text is a spare 170 words. Further, the article's statement that "there were no immediate claims of responsibility" is misleading, as RS reports from AP, BBC, the Guardian and AFP say the local 'IS' affiliate claimed responsibility. – Sca (talk) 14:06, 18 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support - High casualty, hence notable as well - Sherenk1 (talk) 13:04, 18 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Posted - Article may be short but that's about as much as major sources are reporting this morning, so should be fine. --Masem (t) 15:17, 18 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Snide. – Sca (talk) 20:48, 18 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Post-posting comment – Still quite thin. – Sca (talk) 20:52, 18 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I spot checked the latest news on this and there's not much else to say, that doesn't get into politicizing the incident (which is mostly speculation on the current US-Afghanistan talks, which we shouldn't post.) --Masem (t) 20:56, 18 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
WP:ERRORS (so more eyes see it). --Masem (t) 13:24, 21 August 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
User:Masem thanks, I will post there as well. I would not call this an error. Current events are expected to evolve and would need updation accordingly. regards. --DBigXrayᗙ 06:21, 22 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
In response to reports that U.S. PresidentDonald Trump expressed interest in the United States acquiring Greenland, Greenland's Foreign Minister Ane Lone Bagger dismisses the idea, noting on Twitter that "a better and more equal partnership with Denmark should be the way forward for a stronger and longer-term free Greenland". (BBC News)(Reuters)
According to Israel's Interior ministry, U.S. Congresswoman Rashida Tlaib sends a letter to Israeli Interior Minister Aryeh Deri, asking for permission to visit her elderly grandmother in the West Bank. Tlaib's request was approved on the condition that she "not advance boycott activities for the duration of her visit". Tlaib later declines to come, saying she won't let Israel impose "oppressive conditions" on her. (CNN)
The death of accused sexual trafficker Jeffrey Epstein is ruled a suicide by hanging by the New York City Office of the Chief Medical Examiner. Epstein's attorneys say they will be conducting their own investigation into his death. (CNN)
Oppose. Filmography needs more sourcing and there's no prose about his death, just a single reference in the lede. Spengouli (talk) 18:44, 17 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Boxing legend. " one of the greatest fighters of all time". Start Class article, sourcing needs some volunteers. DBigXrayᗙ 15:16, 17 August 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
Comment Generally regarded as one of the great welterweight fighters. InedibleHulk(talk) 20:12, 17 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I can see someone arguing for a blurb here , but before we go that road, this is a poorly sourced article. And if someone tries to sweep the filmography (unsourced) to a separate article, that's not appropriate per recent discussion on the ITN talk page. Let's get this up to RD quality first before we talk a blurb. --Masem (t) 23:24, 16 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
Support RD, support blurb We've posted some black woman writer I've never heard of a few weeks ago simoply because she was a black person with a Nobel prize (in literature!). Fonda clearly deserves a blurb then. 5.44.170.9 (talk) 07:51, 17 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I don't see the criteria that says if 5.44.170.9 hasn't heard of someone, they can't be posted. I think it's also mildly offensive that you indicate Morrison was posted because she was "some black woman" who received a Nobel prize. 331dot (talk) 10:03, 17 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Find me another nobel prize in literature winner who's death was posted as a blurb on english wikipedia over the past 10-15 years. It's self evient she was only posted because she was 1) woman 2) black for anyone who isn't lying to themselves 5.44.170.9 (talk) 11:33, 17 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
P.S. The fact that my comment is considered to be "offensive", and was even removed as such speaks volumes about the state of this website in 2019 as well as confirms what I said. No wonder the vote succeed, if all opposition is declared offensive and is immediately removed/banned from the website. 5.44.170.9 (talk) 11:36, 17 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
We would have blurbed the first white man to win the Nobel Prize in Literature when he died too! Does knowing that make you feel better? --- Coffeeandcrumbs 11:55, 17 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
If you don't like the state of Wikipedia, perhaps you should find somewhere else to spend your time and make your offensive statements. 331dot (talk) 12:07, 17 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@
Coffeeandcrumbs: The IP is trolling. I deleted their original comment for race baiting, but was reverted. -Zanhe (talk) 19:36, 17 August 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
The IP seems to be making a
WP:POINT. If someone who knows how comes along it would be worth collapsing this convo.--Trans-Neptunian object (talk) 22:06, 17 August 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
Oppose blurb This blurbed death thing is getting out of control. Not every really famous person gets a blurb just because you like them. – Muboshgu (talk) 17:09, 17 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
To note, I would be against this as a blurb myself, but was only cautioning here because of how his death was being handled in newspapers as "oh gosh, a major loss!", and wanted to address the major block to that point first. --Masem (t) 19:47, 17 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Masem, I wanted to do the same thing. RD only. – Muboshgu (talk) 20:57, 17 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose both Unsourced early life chunks, disproportionate Twitter beef, just OK in his field. InedibleHulk(talk) 20:01, 17 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose blurb As per Muboshgu--BoothSiftTalks 20:34, 17 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose blurb – In view of the subject's somewhat checkered film oeuvre. – Sca (talk) 20:47, 17 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose blurb I'm not seeing blurb-level fame here. Should be RD.--Trans-Neptunian object (talk) 22:06, 17 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Comment The article is locked, but I've left my suggestions for CN resolutions on the talk page. It's a shame to see RD half-filled with barely-not-stubs of completely un-notable people, while a widely-recognized name gets left off. Oppose blurb, died of natural causes. I take that other IPs point, though, I think it better to not repeat mistakes.130.233.3.115 (talk) 06:50, 19 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Comment is there a well-grounded reason why Fonda is still ignored in RD? --Biafra (talk) 13:49, 22 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
RDs for the ITN box on main page must show a level of quality representative of what WP can be. Fonda's article remains drastically poorly sourced throughout, and no one has bothered to update it. --Masem (t) 13:52, 22 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
understood. i'm just wondering that lot of other persons who were (still are?) visible there are with poorer and weaker quality... --Biafra (talk) 06:54, 23 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Multiple entire paragraphs are unreferenced --BoothSiftTalks 21:37, 16 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support Good work, good to go now. --BoothSiftTalks 00:13, 20 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support Have done some extensive work on the article, mainly sourcing. Maybe The Rambling Man and Boothsift can reevaluate as well? Zwerg Nase (talk) 10:55, 19 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support - Good work! I've listed Zwerg Nase as the updater. -Zanhe (talk) 01:13, 20 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose for now. Article needs some spit polish in several areas. In the realm of referencing, there are many more inline cites needed. While some stuff is uncontroversial and easily verifiable (like the fact that she had three sisters, etc.) other stuff which is more open to interpretation or not readily available in the public record, like "Christina was a bright and happy child, with a considerable talent for music. She also had a capacity for languages and as a young girl delighted the visiting President of the French Republic, René Coty, by conversing fluently with him in French." and the information on the faith healer, and several other places, needs direct inline citations. Furthermore, the article is woefully incomplete, it looks like she did nothing of note between changing her name in 1963, getting married and having children in the 1970s, and dying in 2019. Surely in four decades there's something worth reporting that happened in there? It does need some work. --Jayron32 15:24, 16 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support Lets get people looking this article and fixing it! All the best: RichFarmbrough, 22:41, 16 August 2019 (UTC).[reply]
Support per improvements. Weak Oppose - A few missing citations left in a couple of sections, as editors above have pointed out. If this is resolved, please ignore this !vote or consider it a support !vote.VanillaWizard💙 05:02, 17 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Fixed all major issues. A lot of good work has been done by several editors to improve this. It needs a review again.--DBigXrayᗙ 17:13, 20 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Weak oppose Still missing citations for some areas. Kingsif (talk) 17:35, 20 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Great work, thank you! I've struck my previous comment and replaced my !vote. VanillaWizard💙 19:35, 21 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
User:Vanilla Wizard thanks for reconsidering your !vote. I have made some further improvements to the page as well. Hope it gets posted before getting archived --DBigXrayᗙ 06:19, 22 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support – Looks good to go. Marked ready. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 06:24, 22 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Posting. --Tone 07:50, 22 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks Tone, can someone give the credits. --DBigXrayᗙ 12:04, 22 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
now done by Tone.--DBigXrayᗙ 13:05, 22 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Miracle on the Hudson, but close. Mjroots (talk) 15:40, 15 August 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
Oppose - I know it's refreshing to see an airline story that isn't a catastrophe for once, but "plane lands safely" is not really newsworthy.--WaltCip (talk) 16:00, 15 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. A successful emergency landing with no casualties isn't a significant story. Modest Geniustalk 16:04, 15 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - The Miracle on the Hudson was a "plane lands safely" "with no casualties" story and it was posted. Mjroots (talk) 16:09, 15 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Over a decade ago. I'm not convinced it would meet today's ITN criteria for that exact reason. Modest Geniustalk 17:15, 15 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support. When was the last time pilots made an emergency landing of a large wide-body jet on rough terrain with full fuel tanks after both its engines failed and managed to avoid any deaths or serious injuries? This is a miracle on Hudson-tier event, IMO 5.44.170.9 (talk) 16:11, 15 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Given the distance and angle from the runway, it seems that the plane did not climb to any significant height or yaw/turn from the "liftoff vector" (pardon my terminology). As such, a successful ditch is not nearly as remarkable as that if 1549. GreatCaesarsGhost 17:31, 15 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
It reached about 750 feet (230 m) above ground level according to sources. Mjroots (talk) 17:33, 15 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Weak oppose. It is good that there were no fatalities, but a successful emergency landing does not quite make it to the INT level. There are several other Russia stories, such as the 9M730 Burevestnik situation and the current mass protests in Moscow, that are a lot more significant. Nsk92 (talk) 17:46, 15 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support I think the idea that "if they'd only all just died, this would be postable!" is pretty nonsensical. Banedon (talk) 19:08, 15 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
"Nonsensical" is quite a strong word here. You can simply disagree with the opposers without it. Our opposes are based on the fact on the ground not because we relish death. If they indeed all died, the story would have been completely different. The Russian government, Aviation stakeholders, US and Airbus would have issued series of statements. Media would have gone agog with scoop and images, flights would be delayed/canceled. A high-level investigation panel would have been established, technical investigators would have been imported from US/France to start studying the remnants of the plane. That's a STORY and what differentiate the others with this. There are almost 10 air crashes that happened after the last one we posted here. This one is not different from them. – Ammarpad (talk) 14:01, 16 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose – A nice "brite" (as they used to say in the noozbiz), but not really significant. – Sca (talk) 21:59, 15 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support per Banedon. I believe this is notable enough for ITN and the article is good. Davey2116 (talk) 22:44, 15 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per above. The article is good, but I believe this is not notable enough for ITN. MSN12102001 (talk) 23:24, 15 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Weak oppose it's a good news story but is already getting stale. Not much of encyclopdic long-term value, aircraft routinely suffer bird strikes, we won't be learning an awful amount from this incident other than a tick in the box for the pilot and for Airbus. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 06:15, 16 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support. This would be like not posting Apollo 13 because the astronauts lived. Sometimes a "successful failure" is still notable. 331dot (talk) 07:56, 16 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I would further add the points that there were more injuries here than with the Hudson River event, and we don't often post things related to Russia. 331dot (talk) 08:20, 16 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I think comparing a bird strike (daily occurrence) and successful controlled descent into terrain (from a few hundred metres) with Apollo 13 (the third ever attempt at a moon landing, tens of thousands of miles in space, 50-odd years ago, employing the scientific minds of NASA to find a solution....) is the biggest stretch of imagination I've seen today. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 08:30, 16 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I was not making a direct comparison other than the fact that people do not have to die for something to be notable. Please link to stories on double bird strikes that brought down commercial aircraft from each day of the last week(since these occur daily). 331dot (talk) 08:42, 16 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Apollo 13 was not heavily followed by the public until the astronauts were in danger. 331dot (talk) 08:43, 16 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Then why bring up Apollo 13? There are dozens of aircraft crashes in the past few years where nobody died. We haven't posted any of them. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 10:05, 16 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
And if you read my comment correctly, you'll see I said that bird strikes are a daily occurrence. This was a bird strike. It has no long-term encyclopedic value, will have no impact on flying and hence my weak oppose. It's great that everyone survived but it's happened plenty of times. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 10:07, 16 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Bird strikes do happen daily. Bird strikes that take out all engines of an airliner and result in a crash landing in which everyone survives is pretty much a "less than once in a decade" event. Mjroots (talk) 11:31, 16 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Sure, but ultimately it was a controlled descent into terrain in which everyone survived. That has happened more than one a decade. You can intersect as many different aspects as you like to make it unique, but ultimately it's just crash from which everyone escaped but nothing will change, the EV is very low. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 11:36, 16 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
What definition of EV are you using? 331dot (talk) 12:21, 16 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Clearly one that's wildly different from you as this is in no way comparable to Apollo 13. This is a minor story with no long-lasting impact, it's borderline trivia. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 12:40, 16 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
But that does not mean that 28 commercial airliners are brought down in cornfields with injuries every day. So, since this isn't notable, I guess the Hudson River incident article should be deleted. Maybe they should take the plane out of the museum, too. 331dot (talk) 15:19, 16 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Sure, other stuff definitely exists. I guess after a point we stop making a fuss over things that are relatively routine. Or we don't make a fuss about it at all because it happens in other countries. Who knows? As you know, they even made a movie about Sully, so it's unlikely that the Hudson page will be deleted. And also unlikely that this will be deleted either, but as for EV and newsworthiness, it's down at the bottom end of the scale. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 15:21, 16 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I have not kept track about how often things related to Russia are posted in INT. But this story is really small potatoes compared with several other Russia related stories that are happening now. The 9M730 Burevestnik story, nominated below, is a much more significant event, both nationally and internationally. But by far the biggest story in Russia now is the ongoing protests related to the 2019 Moscow City Duma election. Thousands of people have been arrested, and the protests have spread significantly beyond Moscow. These are the largest protests in Russia since 2011-2013[41]. If any current Russia story deserves ITN posting, it is that one, rather than a story about an aircraft birds strike. Nsk92 (talk) 08:51, 16 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support per 331dot. Also, there is precedent as 5.44.170.9 points out above, with US Airways Flight 1549 which was posted to ITN when it happened. Regards SoWhy 08:01, 16 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Weak Oppose A passenger plane crash in which everyone survives is quite common. For example: [42][43][44][45][46] and this only includes large passenger aircraft since 2018. At least one of those stories involved a plane landing in the water similar to the Miracle on the Hudson. I will grant that of these six crashes, this story is the most notable because it involved the largest aircraft. However, while it is a heartwarming story, I don't believe it is notable within an international context. NorthernFalcon (talk) 08:59, 16 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Opposing this is not easy because it may sound like expressing some pessimistic thought because no one died. But a plane crash in which everyone survives
is really not news and would be forgotten soon, in a matter of weeks at most. Whereas those with heavyfatality tend to make lasting impression to the families of victims, affect government procedures and aviation industry in general. That's why we post them, not because we relish fatality. It's just how human mind perceive events since time immemorial, we cannot change this here on Wikipedia. I've to add that, the analogy to old posting (10 years ago) is not relevant here. The same thing would not be posted if it were to be judged with today's criteria. – Ammarpad (talk) 09:47, 16 August 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
Comment An American plane, with American passengers, landing on an American river would not be reported these days? Don't make me laugh. Complete fiction. Leaky caldron (talk) 09:53, 16 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Mostly per Ammarpad, though I disagree on 1549. There's a big difference between a control descent 60 seconds after liftoff on your original trajectory and maneuvering an engine-less A320 to avoid crashing into a dense urban area. I would agree it was much fluffed up by having occurred in the "capital of the world." GreatCaesarsGhost 13:20, 16 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support on the principle that we have posted near-disasters in aviation before, and otherwise meets quality and newsworthiness, and that its clear if we didn't at this point, we are showing bias. It's still being considered a major accident in terms of aviation - it is being given the same thorough investigation that a crash would have had (for those asking about lasting impact). Even if the "difficulty" of the safe landing between this crash and the 1549 flight is far different, it still was fast action to save a large number of lives. --Masem (t) 14:00, 16 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support Per 331dot, basically, but I'd more like to point out that this is definitely on the news from what I've searched, so there is at least a notability aspect to it. Plus, it was still an accident, so it's not like nothing happened, though I wouldn't call it an Apollo 13. Pie3141527182 (talk) 18:32, 16 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support A large commercial airliner landing in a cornfield is not a routine occurrence. That there were no fatalities should not be a bar to it being significant or newsworthy. -- KTC (talk) 19:57, 16 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Comment – Now he's officially a Hero of Russia – demonstrating that hype knows no borders. What next – a jaunt to the ISS? He was just doing his job, for which he evidently was well-trained. – Sca (talk) 20:20, 16 August 2019 (UTC) [reply]
Support – NPOV. Precedent shows that if this happened in U.S., France, UK, Australia, or Canada, we would have posted it. We should set our personal feels aside and post this. It is in the news and the Hero of the Russian Federation is a nice kicker showing high notability. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 21:09, 16 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Please AGF - the rationale given in opposition is perfectly reasonable, there is no cause to imply bias. And only one prior nom has been provided for precedence, and it is 10 years old. ITN has changed a lot in that time. Read that discussion; its crazy it got posted. GreatCaesarsGhost 23:25, 16 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I include myself in bias and bias is not bad faith. It is a fact of life. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 03:53, 17 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Marking as ready - article in good shape, awards of Russia's highest civilian medals to crew adds much weight to notability, its in the news and Russia is generally under-represented at ITN. Support reasons seem to outweigh oppose reasons. Mjroots (talk) 07:11, 17 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Marking one's own nomination as ready is allowable, as an independent admin can either post it or overrule. What is an abuse of admin tools is to post one's own nomination, especially where there are opposes. You will notice that I have not done this. Mjroots (talk) 09:14, 17 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Posting. --Tone 09:46, 17 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Wait, what? I understand that a simple majority is not enough to be considered consensus, but how can consensus exists when the majority of editors are in opposition? 75.188.224.208 (talk) 17:53, 18 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Post-posting comment – "I really don't feel like a hero," Capt. Yusupov said. "I did what I had to do." – Sca (talk) 15:17, 17 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Start Class article with decent sourcing I am working on the filmographynow excellent sourcing.DBigXrayᗙ 15:33, 15 August 2019 (UTC)[reply
Six police officers are shot, sustaining non-life threatening injuries, by a gunman in Philadelphia; a seventh officer is injured in a related automobile accident nearby. (CNN)(NBC News)
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: multinational shipping magnate. Died on August 12, announced on August 14. Zanhe (talk) 00:46, 15 August 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
Support Short but adequate. One could wish for a few more references for diversity of coverage, but the ones cited appear to be RS and the article is acceptably cited. -Ad Orientem (talk) 02:02, 15 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support. It would be preferable to have a couple more sources since ref [1] goes up to [r] but otherwise fine. NixinovaTC 06:51, 15 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Ad Orientem and Nixinova: I've added more sources and content, including several published books. I've only included sources with in-depth coverage of him. -Zanhe (talk) 19:42, 15 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
AGF nom that won't gain traction. Six injuries and no deaths isn't notable in the grand scheme of things in the US. ~ Cyclonebiskit (chat) 03:37, 15 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Oppose Limited long-term impact. Given the US's history of shootings, article doesn't make it clear how this event stands out among the dozens of other ones that have happened this year. SpencerT•C 01:45, 15 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Fails WP:BODYCOUNT. Mass shootings are far too common in the US to post all but the most serious. -Ad Orientem (talk) 01:49, 15 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Comment The article is nowhere near ready for the main page as of now. But lets be honest, people don't shoot at cops every day in the U.S. This is not normal. – Muboshgu (talk) 01:50, 15 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose This looks like they got shot while on duty, responding to a general gang shootout. While sad, this is equivalent to military personnel dying in aircraft accidents. It's nowhere close to the previous shooting events. --Masem (t) 01:57, 15 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose no deaths (Thank God!), and as said earlier not really newsworthy in the U.S.. – John M Wolfson (talk • contribs) 03:28, 15 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Nominator's comments: May need a better target; there's enough on Google to create a new article if needed. Jayron32 16:53, 14 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
Graham Farmer to Polly Farmer. The latter is the person's clear common name and is already a redirect. HiLo48 (talk) 03:34, 14 August 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
Oppose A few unsourced patches, but the article is not far off. Hrodvarsson (talk) 04:54, 14 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Hrodvarsson: I have added a couple of references that cover his awards, and membership of premiership teams. Are there other concerns? (Maybe you could cn them.) HiLo48 (talk) 06:40, 14 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support he is probably one of the first Excitement Machines of the VFL and WAFL. — Bronwyn Gannan (talk) 08:12, 14 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support a notable Australian Rules Footballer recognized as such across Australia. Dan arndt (talk) 09:47, 14 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support blurb - Literally considered a Legend in his field.--WaltCip (talk) 15:36, 14 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Not sure that Aussie rules is a big enough field though.-- Pawnkingthree (talk) 15:42, 14 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Waverley Park's field was originally 200 metres long and 160 metres across. That's a big field in my book.--WaltCip (talk) 15:51, 14 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
It was never going to get a blurb, HiLo48, that was the only point I was making. Attendances have nothing to do with it. Pawnkingthree (talk) 23:59, 14 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
You made no point that I could see, and it was a typical comment from someone not familiar with a particular sport, and consequently denigrating it. And you're still doing it. HiLo48 (talk) 08:42, 15 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support RD referencing issues appear to have been resolved.-- Pawnkingthree (talk) 15:46, 14 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Posted to RD — Amakuru (talk) 18:14, 14 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
United States Trade Representative announces a delay until December 15 on a significant number of products affected by 10% import tariffs announced on August 1 and set to be imposed in September. (CNBC)(Reuters)
According to Interfax, the governor of Arkhangelsk Oblast dismisses as "complete nonsense" the advice by authorities in Severodvinsk to residents of Nyonoksa to evacuate on August 14. This follows the accidental explosion on Thursday of what is speculated to be a nuclear-powered missile. Russian nuclear agency Rosatom says the failed test involved a "nuclear isotope power source" for a liquid-propelled rocket engine. (The Independent)(CBS News)
Venezuelan migrant crisis
A new poll from Consultores 21 suggests that at least 4.7 million Venezuelans are living outside of the country, with the range going up to 6 million — 19% of the nation's entire population in 2017. (Miami Herald)
Hundreds of thousands of students, schoolteachers and university professors hold demonstrations across Brazil against sweeping cuts in the education budget. Protestors also voice opposition to the government's plan to delegate the administrative and financial management of federal universities and institutes to a privately-held fund. (Agência Brasil)(Telesur English)
Earlier in the day, over a thousand Indigenous Brazilian women, representing over 100 ethnic groups, march on Brasília after an overnight occupation of the headquarters of the Ministry of Health's Special Secretariat of Indigenous Health. Protestors chanted against the government's recent attempts at municipalization and privatization of the Indigenous health subsystem, and called for stricter environmental regulations. (BBC News)(Telesur English)
Nominator's comments: Very notable typhoon that has killed more people and caused more damage than most storms do. NoahTalk 01:35, 13 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support - biggest typhoon of the year, major damage in multiple countries. Article is well sourced. -Zanhe (talk) 01:41, 13 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support in both quality and importance, but I would not include the damage cost in the blurb. It would be better to find an estimate number of injured or displaced by the storm here, going back to past natural disasters. --Masem (t) 02:47, 13 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Added an improved altblurb (at least, IMO) --Masem (t) 02:52, 13 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
There's one Twitter source which I'd prefer to be replaced with a better source, but overall this is ready. Alt blurb. – Ammarpad (talk) 09:37, 13 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support: I've added another altblurb to add more affected regions and remove the unsourced cropland phrase. — RAVENPVFF·talk· 09:51, 13 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support per above. Ready to go. MSN12102001 (talk) 11:26, 13 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support - ready to go.BabbaQ (talk) 15:07, 13 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Posted Altblurb II, but waiting for image to clear protection queue. --Masem (t) 15:29, 13 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
primary elections, the country's peso loses 15% of its value against the US dollar. (Reuters)
Disasters and accidents
At least 24 people die after floods strike across
Lam Dong Province. Floods also damage more than 30km of national roads, including the road leading to the tourist city of Dalat and destroy 142 hectares of aquarium farming and 4,300 cages of river-raised fish. (Al Jazeera)
Hong Kong Police officers of being "terrorists", saying that a violent minority within the pro-democracy movement poses "a serious challenge to Hong Kong's prosperity and stability". (Channel NewsAsia)
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: I am working to fix the sourcing and expansion. Start Class article with excellent sourcing. DBigXrayᗙ 07:29, 13 August 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
Oppose predominantly unreferenced, and still marked as a double-stub(ble). The Rambling Man (REJOICE!) 11:39, 13 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Weak oppose needs a proper copyedit for English and encyclopedic tone. I just modified a sentence which read He had multiple motorcycle accidents one of the accidents happened in 2009 was a serious accident which, to me, would be completely unacceptable to promote on our Main Page. Other similar (but not as bad) issues exist. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 16:44, 14 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the catch, I have done a recheck on the article to copy edit for problems. --DBigXrayᗙ 05:27, 15 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Stub article and very unreferenced. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 12:35, 13 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Working yup, I am working to address these. Some help will be appreciated. :) --DBigXrayᗙ 15:02, 13 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Fixed The sourcing issues. The article is expanded. Now it is a Start Class article with excellent sourcing. User talk:The Rambling Man and TDKR Chicago 101 please see if you can now support this. --DBigXrayᗙ 08:14, 14 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support It looks quite better now than when it was nominated. – Ammarpad (talk) 19:12, 14 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Stale, unimproved. Stephen 05:05, 19 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Oppose too much unreferenced material. The Rambling Man (REJOICE!) 11:40, 13 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Israeli riot police clash with Palestinians at the Al-Aqsa Mosque and Temple Mount site in East Jerusalem. With holidays coincidentally falling on the same day (11 August) this year for both Judaism and Islam, some Palestinians began protesting the admittance of Jewish visitors to the site, despite a longstanding agreement barring Jewish visitors. Following the agreement, the Al-Aqsa police barred Jews from the site. Israeli forces then fired rubber bullets and tear gas at people inside. The Jews were then admitted, which caused further tensions on both sides of the dispute. (Al Jazeera)
Arts and culture
Pope Francis recalls the 70th anniversary of the Geneva Conventions after his Sunday afternoon Angelus address. The 1949 conventions concern the treatment of the sick, the wounded, prisoners, and civilians in war. (Vatican News)
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Cardinal of the Catholic Church; article short but referenced. — RAVENPVFF·talk· 15:07, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
Support Appears to be fully sourced, no obvious issues. Sam Walton (talk) 19:19, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support fully sourced. -Zanhe (talk) 02:03, 13 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Should we really have a "Controversy" section in this article?. I think not. – Ammarpad (talk) 09:32, 13 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Fair enough. I've merged the paragraph into the Biography section. — RAVENPVFF·talk· 09:54, 13 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
And it surely looks quite more neutral now. Marked this nomination ready. – Ammarpad (talk) 09:58, 13 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support dreadful proseline but I was holding off because of the undue weight issues with a whole controversy section, better now it's been merged. The Rambling Man (REJOICE!) 11:42, 13 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Palestinian militants near the border with Gaza, the Israeli military say. Israel Defense Forces say the men were armed with assault rifles, anti-tank missiles and hand grenades. (The Guardian)
The death toll due to the monsoon flooding in southern and western India rises to 147, while hundreds of thousands have been evacuated from their homes. (Al Jazeera)
At least 56 people have been killed and more than a million forced from their homes as
Five people are confirmed dead and three injured following an accidental rocket explosion on a naval test range near Severodvinsk, Russia on Thursday August 8th. The rocket used an experimental nuclearisotope liquid fuel source, causing a brief localized spike in radiation. 9500 nearby residents were evacuated. (BBC News)
Kim Jong-un to U.S. PresidentDonald Trump, Kim apologizes for the testing of short-range missiles. Trump says he expects to meet Kim soon and see a denuclearized North Korea as "one of the most successful countries in the world". (Clarín)
Nominator's comments: I realise that as a tragedies go, it doesn't rise to the level of a truck explosion or car bombing, but these are common events and this is rare and interesting. A lot of people find these sort of accidents fascinating. And there's always the danger that one day we may wind up on the wrong end of something like this. Hawkeye7(discuss) 01:49, 14 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support. Pretty important since this is a notable weapon and explosion left radioactive contamination. Oranjelo100 (talk) 02:08, 14 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose As far as I understand there's no consensus among experts that the reason for the radiation leak was the Burevestnik rocket. As a reminder, the official response was that the disaster happened on a "nuclear battery unit", whatever the hell that means. 5.44.170.9 (talk) 04:42, 14 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose The story is still developing, but relatively little information has been made public and the article still needs improvements.--Tdl1060 (talk) 05:59, 14 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
So we just stick with RS and attribute the spike in radiation to what RS are claiming. It's not that tricky. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 20:04, 14 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose For now, the mention in the article is enough. Also it is claimed that the exploded rocket used liquid fuel, and Burevestnik uses solid. And also, I think the amount of radiation released supports the claim that contamination was from a
Smeagol 17 (talk) 07:47, 14 August 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
Support The developing and important story is not only that some sort of nuclear accident occurred, but also Russian authorities’ spotty, reluctant, and self-contradictory release of information about it. —MichaelZ. 2019-08-14 14:24 z
Weak support this has re-entered the news where I live, it's clearly a very rare nuclear accident, but I think "explodes" rather than "blows up" might be more appropriate for an encyclopedia. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 16:20, 14 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support. Appears to be a significant developing story with staying power. Nsk92 (talk) 18:29, 14 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support, perhaps with an expanded blurb about the recent evacuation of the local populace (see above; I mistakenly started a new nomination not realizing this was the same event.) --Jayron32 18:31, 14 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose not on the story, but I would not be highlighting the Nyonoksa article - it is in poor shape and dominated by the missile issue. The evacuation should be covered in the missile's article. --Masem (t) 18:38, 14 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Too soon for any conclusions. It's still not known whether the accident has anything to do with the development works on the Burevestnik cruise missile. BlackFlanker (talk) 19:07, 14 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
No one denies that. However, not much is known about the cause of the accident and the device being tested at the site. Russian MoD probably won't dislose these kind of informations any time soon. BlackFlanker (talk) 20:59, 14 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support This story seems to be growing in significance as time passes, due to the possibility of radiation contaminating the environment. (NorthernFalcon (talk) 19:50, 14 August 2019 (UTC))[reply]
Weak oppose Its in the news, and the article on the rocket is fine, but the more I think about this, the lack of firm details that we have, most of it being feed from the Russian government which we know we have to take with a grain of salt, I think its the type of story to avoid featuring right now because we can't be 100% of what's actually happened. I'm sure the 7 people have died from a test rocket explosion, but most of the other factors are iffy. I'd not oppose posting this outright, just that I think this is not a good story to feature. --Masem (t) 20:17, 14 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Well how odd. We have verification that people died here and we have that same verification that radiation has spiked. This is like a North Korean missile test. Why is it "not a good story to feature"? I think this is the strangest oppose I've ever read from you Masem. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 20:25, 14 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
It's more from the article quality stance. We know people died from the missile accident, but how much of the rest is verified. If this isn't a concern to others, then we're ready to go, but I feel this is something that has been an issue in the past (eg I want to say that the initial posting of the Mueller report were cautioned because we had no idea what was in it). --Masem (t) 20:45, 14 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Weak oppose – Agree with Masem. Given the relatively small number of victims, and the arcane nature of the incident, I'm not convinced this event is of ITN-level significance. And at 270 words, the article is rather sketchy. – Sca (talk) 21:45, 14 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support Notable story, with global significance and coverage. Article is short but is adequate. Davey2116 (talk) 23:27, 14 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Weak oppose / wait: this is tricky. It's clearly an unusual accident which is attracting a lot of media attention, but almost everything we know about it is supposition and outsider estimates. The amount of radiation released seems to be very small, though it wouldn't be the first time a cover up hid the true extent of the problem. We don't even know which missile system was involved; Burevestnik is just an educated guess which would make some Russian statements inconsistent. Based on the factual information available, I think we should treat this like any other explosion that kills seven people; so probably doesn't merit an ITN blurb. However this could well develop into something more significant if further details emerge. Modest Geniustalk 12:02, 15 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Also, the reports I've seen said the radiation spike was 20 times background for one hour. That is very small, less than the amount most people receive in a day and roughly 80 banana equivalent dose. Modest Geniustalk 12:09, 15 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per Masem and Modest Genius. The verified facts in evidence don't raise to a blurb. GreatCaesarsGhost 12:03, 15 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose As yet it's a content-free article. There's certainly interest, but as yet we have little content to offer. Andy Dingley (talk) 20:30, 17 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's comments: ITNR and not nominated three days ago, needs work on prose for sure, but just putting it out there in case we all missed it. The Rambling Man (REJOICE!) 09:30, 13 August 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
Oppose – Charticle. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 00:44, 14 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
This would be good to post, but needs a prose summary of the tournament. Currently it's just a series of tables. Modest Geniustalk 18:02, 15 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's comments: I updated the article, might have a few errors though. BoothSiftTalks 07:33, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support alt Blurb II. I have merged my duplicate nomination above as well as the article. The article is a well referenced start class article and ready IMHO.--DBigXrayᗙ 07:37, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support alt 2. The Rambling Man (REJOICE!) 08:59, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose – "The event was similar to one that occurred in Kenya in 2011, in which 100 people were killed." Really, says who? --- Coffeeandcrumbs 09:29, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support alt blurb II. Significant mass casualty incident. The problematic commentary referenced in the above oppose vote has been removed.--Tdl1060 (talk) 09:41, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support - per aboveBabbaQ (talk) 11:51, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support – in principle, but both article title and blurb must specify that it was a fuel tanker truck that exploded. In Eng.-lang. usage, the phrase "fuel tanker" may refer to a ship or an airplane. Ready notation therefore removed. – Sca (talk) 14:22, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
(Closed) (Posted to RD; no consensus to post blurb): Jeffrey Epstein
This can go on and on but I don't see a consensus developing. It's already on RD, so that's something. --Tone 03:36, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Article:Jeffrey Epstein (talk·history·tag) Blurb: American financier and convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein(pictured), facing numerous charges of child sex trafficking, kills himself while in U.S. federal custody. (Post) Alternative blurb: In United States federal custody while facing numerous charges of international sex trafficking, Jeffrey Epstein(pictured) dies of an apparent suicide. Alternative blurb II: Convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein(pictured) kills himself in US federal custody during an ongoing international sex trafficking investigation. Alternative blurb III: Convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein(pictured) dies of an apparent suicide while in U.S. federal custody, facing numerous charges of international sex trafficking. Alternative blurb IV: American financier and convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein(pictured) dies of an apparent suicide while in U.S. federal custody, facing numerous charges of international sex trafficking. News source(s):NY Times, ABC7 NY, AP Credits:
Nominator's comments: Article seems to be in order because it has been in the spotlight recently so most of it has been under scrutiny. --Pudeo (talk) 13:13, 10 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Not because of the person but the situation around him, this may be blurb-appropriate, somehing like "While facing numerous charges of sex trafficking, Epstein commits suicide while in a New York jail." or something like that. --Masem (t) 13:21, 10 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - He's definitely noteworthy enough for RD but, as pointed out above, the case around him was very notable. --2A00:23C4:3E0F:4400:65B5:3AF9:D9B7:A502 (talk) 13:35, 10 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Comment, I also believe this individual "deserves" a blurb. A period for this indivual. --CoryGlee (talk) 13:40, 10 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Updated into a blurb. Obviously gigantic story that will capture the media attention for days if not weeks Also, support alt-blurb 3 blurb. 5.44.170.9 (talk) 14:08, 10 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Comment – Note that Epstein is a convicted sex offender. He was convicted of soliciting underage girls. We can't say "alleged pedophile" because he has already been convicted of a crime that in layman's terms is tantamount to pedophilia. He is a convicted pedophile facing new charges. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 14:29, 10 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support for 'Recent deaths' section. Störm(talk) 14:34, 10 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Blurb, a local case with limited repurcussions. Should be published as ITN RD if there are no other issues.--DBigXrayᗙ 14:44, 10 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose any blurb that says committed suicide. Suicide is legal in New York and is also not a federal crime. Support altblurb. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 14:53, 10 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
"Committed suicide" is standard language in the US. We know in other countries suicide is a crime and we'd have to be more careful on wording, but in the US it's standard terminology. --Masem (t) 15:20, 10 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Masem, NOT TRUE. Many U.S. media are consistently saying "died by apparent suicide".[50][51][52][53][54] The NYTimes is the only source I found that says committed suicide. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 15:39, 10 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
It is true, from my admittedly anecdotal experience, that "committed" suicide is the most common phrase used for that action. 23:49, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
Consider the source: The NYT remains the No. 1 newspaper in the U.S. and arguably the world. Further, "commit" doesn't necessarily denote a criminal act. – Sca (talk) 16:21, 10 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Patently untrue, I don't know of a single person in even the UK that reads the NYT at all, an American option here would be WaPo, but even that's uncommon; it's not even the most circulated or bought newspaper in the US, actually, let's not base an argument on clear hyperbole Kingsif (talk) 12:30, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Clearly, you should widen your circle of acquaintances. – Sca (talk) 14:27, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
PS: Note that the hed on the AP story now says, "Officials: Jeffrey Epstein dies by suicide in jail cell," while that on the NYT page one promo says, "Jeffrey Epstein Hanged Himself in Jail, Officials Say." – Sca (talk) 16:42, 10 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I believe the reason why the media is mostly using "apparent suicide" rather than "committed suicide" is because there are doubts circulating as to whether Epstein actually died by suicide. For example: [55] Thus, the usage of "apparent suicide" in this circumstance would not necessarily disprove the usage of "commit suicide" in cases where the manner of death is certain. NorthernFalcon (talk) 07:21, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
ITN has been over the "committed suicide" phrasing before, and I'm fairly certain it was agreed that it's fine. I'm not sure objections based on such wording should be counted, given past consensus. Kingsif (talk) 15:46, 10 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
With significant objection. Also see sources cited above. Consensus can change. Can you offer a reason not to use altblurb. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 15:50, 10 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Probably that at this point in time, the cause of death is suspected suicide, the investigaton is not yet complete. (He was supposed to be under suicide watch, so there are several questions floating around). --Masem (t) 15:52, 10 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Hence the apparent. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 15:54, 10 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
"Died of suicide" is too wishy-washy, IMO; "killed himself" is the best (assuming it's true and reliably sourced that he did, of course) as I've said before. – John M Wolfson (talk • contribs) 23:49, 10 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose blurb – Subject was of scant general significance; notable mainly for the lurid details of his past – support RD only. – Sca (talk) 15:08, 10 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Here's the rub - the way the case was going, with this week revealing a number of high profile individuals that were claimed to be involved with Epstein's sex trafficking, there was a likely high chance we would have posted the results of the conviction - this is a high-profile trial even if it only "local". The fact that the individual decided to end his involvement via suicide - well, he won't be convicted, but there will continue to be ongoing investigation, and the case remains of high importance. Hence why a blurb makes sense here. --Masem (t) 15:20, 10 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
He may be important to whatever other cases may arise from this situation, but posting his death as an RD is sufficient for the record. – Sca (talk) 16:16, 10 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose blurb Wikipedia is (in theory at least) meant to be an encyclopedia,
not a newspaper or a gossip magazine. Similar to Sca's comment above, the only reason this is deemed to be newsworthy is because of the nature of the allegations against him. It's extremely likely that most other people in the finance sector are not deemed to be worthy of a blurb upon their death. Chrisclear (talk) 15:21, 10 August 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
Support RD only This guy is notable enough to warrant ITNC RD and I see no CN tags on his article. Multiple sources have reported his death. However, I see little hope of us ever getting the blurb correct and I'm not sure that his death warrants a blurb anyway.
Ready for RD RD is a no brainer. The article is in good shape including solid referencing. Weak Support for blurb. Although there is a sensationalist element to this story, his death does seem to meet the criteria for a blurb at
Support AltBlurb The circumstances around his death are sufficient in my view to warrant a blurb. I don't think it's being gossipy to acknowledge that. As Masem said, this was a significant trial implicating multiple high-profile individuals, and the death of the central figure seems significant. Regardless, his death should be posted as an RD if not as a blurb. Cwilson97 (talk) 15:37, 10 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support Alt Blurb Epstein may not seem like a hugely significant figure, but this story goes beyond him.
Lepricavark (talk) 15:43, 10 August 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
Support altblurb 2 Deserves a blurb, Epstein shouldn't be in bold if the story is not just the death but also how big the case was and the connected relevance (i.e. he wouldn't get a blurb on his own, don't make him the target). Kingsif (talk) 15:49, 10 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
No objection except for the spelling of paedophile. That is not common spelling in the U.S. Also see concerns by Masem of not clear cut that he killed himself. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 15:55, 10 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I added Altblurb3 which combines the best of both altblurb and altblurb2. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 16:05, 10 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support one of the altblurb: This isn't just a death, this is a major development in an ongoing news story. – Muboshgu (talk) 16:03, 10 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support blurb Clearly. The death, rather than his life, is indisputably the story, and it is front-page news internationally. This is a significant development in his already-notable case. Davey2116 (talk) 16:22, 10 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support blurb - Just RD? What the hell. STSC (talk) 16:25, 10 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for this enlightening comment. – Sca (talk) 16:36, 10 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support blurb – Specifically altblurb. This is a major news story. Kurtis(talk) 16:33, 10 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Posted to RD. Blurb discussion open. SpencerT•C 16:40, 10 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support AltBlurb 3 per others. Clearly meets level of significance, and has implications outside of the U.S. Spengouli (talk) 16:41, 10 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
"Clearly" is one of the two most overused words in the English language. – Sca (talk) 16:52, 10 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for this enlightening comment. :) Spengouli (talk) 16:54, 10 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support blurb. He might only have been a name in US politics until a short while ago but now his death is prominently reported around the world. Here are some examples: Süddeutsche Zeitung (Germany) (third item on their homepage), Le Monde (France) (first item on their homepage), Corriere della Sera (Italy) (fourth item), The Guardian (UK) (top news story). Regards SoWhy 17:04, 10 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I think "prominently" is pushing it a bit. Its coverage on Le Monde is now at a par with a story about a provincial hospital. On Corriere it is not even the top ranking US story, and is ranked behind this important bit of world news. This is really a US story only, and not a particularly prominent one either. —Brigade Piron (talk) 18:00, 10 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose blurb. There has been a significant creep towards blurbs for RDs. These should be really exceptional. His criminal record is hardly enough to justify treatment as a world leader, and there are plenty of other financiers. —Brigade Piron (talk) 17:53, 10 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
This isn't a case of a death of someone at the top of their field. The blurb is proposed because the death, rather than the person himself, is newsworthy (as per the death blurbs criteria at
WP:ITNRD; if the person's death itself is newsworthy for either the manner of death or the newsworthy reaction to it, it may merit a blurb). Davey2116 (talk) 19:06, 10 August 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
I like the use of the word "may" there. I presume you are not suggesting that suicides are intrinsically "newsworthy" so you must be referring to the reporting of it. I must admit I do not see this at all. It is true that there has been a fair bit of rather bland coverage, but there has hardly been a "newsworthy reaction". —Brigade Piron (talk) 09:02, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose blurb of any kind. This is a case of what-might-have-been. If he had stayed alive and his criminal case proceeded, he might have named a lot of powerful and rich people who were his "clients" and that could indeed have had major repercussions, in the U.S. one beyond. But with Epstein dead, none of this is going to happen. Also, I find the phrasing "apparent suicide" highly objectionable. There has not been any suggestion in any of the RS reporting the story that his death was anything other than suicide. Calling it "apparent suicide" casts doubt on this fact. We should not be promoting or worse yet, creating, conspiracy theories around his death. Nsk92 (talk) 17:55, 10 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
On the contrary, it has not been confirmed as suicide at all. Hence we must say "apparent" or somesuch, if we have a blurb in the first place. I would lean towards not having one. — Amakuru (talk) 19:02, 10 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose blurb - we post blurbs based on real world significance, not on sensationalism. An accused rapist killing himself is not blurb-worthy. -Zanhe (talk) 18:14, 10 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Actually the criteria for death blurbs are listed at
WP:ITNRD. This appears to meet that criteria. -Ad Orientem (talk) 18:41, 10 August 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
Zanhe, when the accused rapist is tied to Trump and Prince Andrew, he's not just "any old" rapist. – Muboshgu (talk) 19:58, 10 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support blurb it is still the #1 news article on BBC.com, and it is of international news significance as well. Here in Finland they ran it as a segment in the evening TV news. It is certainly a bigger news story than what's the current top ITN now, Toni Morrison dying of old age, in any case. --Pudeo (talk) 18:28, 10 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose blurb per Zanhe, Sca et al. Sensationalized trivia. – Ammarpad (talk) 18:42, 10 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose blurb per above. And for the record I believe "committed suicide" is fine, it's totally standard usage and doesn't imply a crime at all. Although in this case it's complicated because the suicide is not confirmed. Best to stick to RD. — Amakuru (talk) 19:02, 10 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose blurb. It briefly hit the headlines, yes, but there's no substance in any of the stories beyond "he committed suicide and also he was convicted of these things"; no sense that the death itself is widely significant. Vanamonde (Talk) 19:16, 10 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I don't see the fact that it is a suspicious death making it a death of global significance. Vanamonde (Talk) 23:48, 10 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support blurb as I am hearing a lot of Jeffrey Epstein in the news. -BRAINULATOR9 (TALK) 19:27, 10 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose blurb An RD is significant enough. While this is the news section, Wikipedia is not a sensationalist tabloid. Captain EekEdits Ho Cap'n!⚓ 19:30, 10 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support blurb: obvious international significance, and its newsworthiness is only amplified by the "he ran into my knife ten times" nature of his death. Sceptre (talk) 19:47, 10 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support blurb I was thinking of "Who said anything about sabotage?!" but YEAH. It's CBALL to say imply unproven facts, but that doesn't mean we have to be so obtuse as to pretend this was a regular old pedophile who offed himself. Also, "committed" should be avoided because it is quite likely he was murdered. "died by apparent suicide" is factually true. GreatCaesarsGhost 20:26, 10 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support blurb given Epstein's high status. Altblurb II (which I slightly modified to use American spelling) is the best, IMO. "Dying of suicide" isn't as direct as "committing suicide", and since the latter seems to have some objections "kills himself" is the best. – John M Wolfson (talk • contribs) 21:39, 10 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose blurb just another criminal avoiding justice? The Rambling Man (REJOICE!) 22:03, 10 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Well, you can't libel the dead. – Sca (talk) 22:12, 10 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Don't have strong opinions on whether the blurb should be posted or not, but could we not use "convicted pedophile"? As explained in the lead of
WP:RS); "convicted child sex abuser" or "convicted child sex molester" works better, although RS generally seem to refer to alleged child sex abuse. Galobtter (pingó mió) 22:15, 10 August 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
I'm not seeing anywhere in the article that he was "convicted" of a crime called "child molesting" either - if we want to headline a person about their past crimes, we should ensure that the headline matches the article. (The article may need improving if this is lacking). — xaosfluxTalk 00:11, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
That his victims were children should be in the blurb, but putting "child sex offender" can mean that he was a sex offender who was also a child. "Sex offender of children" works but is clunky, IMO. – John M Wolfson (talk • contribs) 01:42, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support blurb Discussion of his testimony and impact on high ranking individuals is speculation, nevertheless clearly significant story with international impact as evidenced by being lead story on UK news media. 2A00:23C5:508F:3E01:A46A:4F7A:3702:2CF (talk) 22:27, 10 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: Per concerns raised above, since pedophilia is not a crime and one cannot thus be "convicted" of it, I have edited all blurbs that contained that phrase to "convicted child molester", which is a crime. – John M Wolfson (talk • contribs) 23:46, 10 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support alternative blurb 3. Cause of death itself is a major story, so meets notability for
Wikipedia:ITNRD.--Tdl1060 (talk) 02:16, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
Support alt blurb. Per the supports, the circumstances surrounding his death are obviously suspicious and are causing a huge media frenzy. Merlinsorca 02:49, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support blurb. And “commit suicide” is fine as it is standard usage and does not equate to “criminal act.” Pawnkingthree (talk) 02:59, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Comments. I'm fine with the "commit suicide" verbiage, it is a common phrase. As far as the "child molester" phase, this isn't used in the article at all. The article does say he has an actual conviction of "procuring for prostitution a girl below age 18", and that he was a registered "sex offender". I'd support more a blurb that used this phrasing that is already in the article lede (American financier and convicted sex offender). That, or improve the article to better support that headline first. Procuring appears to have a different definition then molestation according to their articles as well. — xaosfluxTalk 04:03, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Literally is also common verbiage but we don't use that either because it is ambiguous and misused. "Commit suicide" is "outdated, largely inaccurate and stigmatised phrase."[61] --- Coffeeandcrumbs 05:55, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
We can use "American financier and convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein(pictured) kills himself while in U.S. federal custody, facing numerous charges of child sex trafficking." --- Coffeeandcrumbs 05:58, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@
Coffeeandcrumbs: That wording looks good. Like Xaos, I was also concerned about whether the charge he was actually convicted of can be called child molestation, but didn't have time to look into that in my original comment. I've added that as alt blurb 5 (with slight rewording to fix grammar issues). Galobtter (pingó mió) 08:10, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
Oppose blurb per Captin Eek, TRM, etc. (And 'commit suicide' is perfectly acceptable English). - SchroCat (talk) 05:45, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The phrase ‘committed suicide’ should not be used because it implies criminality, thereby contributing to the stigma experienced by those who have lost a loved one to suicide and discouraging suicidal individuals from seeking help.[62] by World Health Organization --- Coffeeandcrumbs 05:58, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Coffeeandcrumbs, do you really think that this story is all about avoiding stigma? —Brigade Piron (talk) 08:56, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply
Coffeeandcrumbs: Well, It appears you brought up several links to stories and thinkpieces to show that 'commit suicide' is like a wrong grammar, obsoleted phrase or like we're 'committing' a serious grammatical gaffe by using the phrase. I think it's time to challenge that narrative. 'Commit suicide' is perfectly correct English. Period. Individually commit means to to carry into action deliberately and suicide means the act of taking one's own life voluntarily and intentionally: that's from American dictionary. No amount of thinkpieces and language engineering can change these meanings. Not in this decade and not even in this century. No one, not even United Nations (or any one for that matter) can prescribe overnight 'commit suicide' is wrong. So please spare us more links. We know there are attempts to dissuade its usage for some reasons, but we also know it's correct English with unambiguous meaning. – Ammarpad (talk) 11:33, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
euphemism. Insisting on using "committed suicide" is POV pushing. The BBC story used to say "apparently commit suicide" and now says "apparently kill himself". We are quickly becoming the last legitimate place on the internet that uses this ignorant term. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 19:42, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
That's simplynottrue. And as there's some debate over whether or not he was on "suicide watch", I don't think this terminology is going away any time soon from many mainstream reliable sources. The Rambling Man (REJOICE!) 19:49, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose blurb significance of this compared to, e.g., ongoing Romanian / Hong Kong / Russian protests which involve tens of thousands of people over a long period of time is very minute indeed. Banedon (talk) 06:13, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose blurb. "In general, if a person's death is only notable for what they did while alive, it belongs as an RD link." Suicide is a quite common response to imprisonment and serious criminal accusations. It's still the case that his death is newsworthy because he was a rich man accused of loathsome crimes. Smerdis of Tlön - killing the human spirit since 2003! 07:00, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Suppport alt blurb (I) Contrary to some opposes above, the suicide itself is also now a story with federal inquiries, including the FBI.[63]—Bagumba (talk) 07:25, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The FBI handle lots of cases in a year, but that doesn't particularly raise them to the threshold required for ITN. This is a local-interest story, and while his death was unexpected it's not hugely significant on a global scale. — Amakuru (talk) 08:43, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Shrug. Please do not ... oppose an item because the event is only relating to a single country, or failing to relate to one.—Bagumba (talk) 09:48, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support blurb, big international story and definitely blurbworthy.
In this case, "big" = relentlessly hyped because prurient. – Sca (talk) 14:35, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Please consider striking this. Prurient means titillating or appealing to lustful or sexual desire. By saying this is hyped because it is prurient, you are suggesting we're all secretly getting off on stories about kids getting raped. That the crimes are of a sexual nature is true, that doesn't mean interest is likewise derived. The key points of curiosity here are 1) a rich person getting away with crimes because they are rich, and 2) connected to powerful people 3) who may themselves be complicit, 4)despite the crimes being of the sort that are not typically swept under the rug. GreatCaesarsGhost 15:40, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
This user does not reply to 'users' who do not exist. – Sca (talk)
Comment The template appears to support only up to four altblurbs, and since no one seems to be supporting the original blurb I moved the former Altblurb V to the main "Blurb" parameter. – John M Wolfson (talk • contribs) 15:09, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Comment – FYI, four European Wikis – German, Dutch, Spanish and Norwegian – list Epstein under 'recent deaths,' but none include him in their versions of ITN. – Sca (talk) 15:10, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I stress this part from ITN guidelines about deaths: For deaths where the cause of death itself is a major story (such as the unexpected death of a prominent figure by homicide, suicide, or accident) or where the events surrounding the death merit additional explanation (such as ongoing investigations, major stories about memorial services or international reactions, etc.) a blurb may be merited to explain the death's relevance.. There is definitely an allowance for this story, due to the unusualness of the death (in the midst of a major story, and now with several questions being raised of how he did it when he was to be on suicide watch). It can still be opposed, but I think most supporting are not doing this in recognizing Epstein as a transformative leader. -Masem (t) 16:26, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Nearly 5,000 Americans committed suicide in custody in 2014 (1) and it is probably higher now. Is that unusual? —Brigade Piron (talk) 18:26, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
How many of those 5,000 Americans have substantial ties to many important people, including a sitting US President, a former US President, and a member of the British Royal Family? 331dot (talk) 21:39, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support alt 3 blurb - in the news, unusual death, significant alleged criminal activity. starship.paint (talk) 03:23, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Boldly reopening. I see 25 votes supporting a blurb and 15 opposing one. How the f*ck is this not a consensus? 5.44.170.9 (talk) 04:10, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
That percentage would not pass an
RFA, and in any event consensus is not a majority vote; the discussion above resulted in significant opposition that did not appear to be assuaged in the course of the discussion. Having said all that, I have no position as to whether the discussion should be extended. – John M Wolfson (talk • contribs) 04:14, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
U.S. Environmental Protection Agency has given waivers to 31 small oil refineries, freeing them from obligations to blend biofuels into their gasoline. (Reuters)
The
China's central bank, the IMF position is at odds with the designation of China by the U.S. as a currency manipulator. (AP News)
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Start Class article with good sourcing. Transgender TV personality. Death announced on 9 Aug. DBigXrayᗙ 14:29, 10 August 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
Comment@DBigXray: please find a way to remove the COPYVIO deleted YouTube ref. Subject appears to be notable but I would also avoid refs to The Sun tabloid. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 18:37, 10 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the kind feedback. I have removed the Youtube refs. Sun is not being used for anything controversial. --DBigXrayᗙ 06:01, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support satis. The Rambling Man (REJOICE!) 09:01, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. The article is adequate but has almost nothing on the modelling/reality television aspects which are presumable the source of notability. Seems a rather big gap.—Brigade Piron (talk) 09:07, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support - good enough for RD now.BabbaQ (talk) 12:19, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Kyrgyzstan's security forces storm the compound of former PresidentAlmazbek Atambayev on the outskirts of Bishkek for the second time after a failed overnight raid left one officer dead. Atambayev and his loyalists are "putting up severe armed resistance", according to President Sooronbay Jeenbekov. Atambayev is detained, ending a two-day standoff. One officer was killed, while 80 people were injured. (Reuters)(BBC News)
Five Stars Movement, opening the possibility of holding a snap election. (Politico)
Marek Kuchciński, speaker of the Sejm in Poland, announces his resignation after admitting the use of a government jet for 23 personal flights. (Euractiv)
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: 60+ yr career comic artist across DC, Marvel and others. Unfortunately article has a ways to go sourcing wise. Masem (t) 22:59, 9 August 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
Weak Support While the article is of reasonable length and covers the career. The lead needs to be expanded. --DBigXrayᗙ 07:28, 10 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose no justification for uploading a non-free image within moments of this individual's death. The Rambling Man (REJOICE!) 09:06, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Marathon runner (allegedly...) who got famous by cheating her way to winning the Boston MarathonTdunsky(Talk) 15:06, 9 August 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
Support Article is in good shape. --Jayron32 15:40, 9 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose This happened on July 8, not August 8 and therefore I think this is rather stale. Rockphed (talk) 18:37, 9 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
If the death was not announced until now, it's eligible. – Ammarpad (talk) 20:29, 9 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The article had it on 8/1 (uncited, but the details are accurate) and again on 8/5 (this time with the ref). Running Magazine had it on the 5th. This is stale. GreatCaesarsGhost 00:06, 10 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
No, that's not stale. Your dates are both within last week in August. – Ammarpad (talk) 05:38, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Weak oppose an unref para in there. The Rambling Man (REJOICE!) 09:09, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support I removed the unreferenced paragraph, rationale is in my edit summary. If someone disagrees please ping me, otherwise the article is fully referenced now. Kees08 (Talk) 01:30, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support This is ready. – Ammarpad (talk) 05:38, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
(Closed) Saudi Arabia loosens travel restrictions on women
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Oppose Even if true, a totalitarian dictatorship like Saudi Arabia taking one incrimental step in women liberation all the while killing hundreds of thousands of civilians in Yemen, Syria, and across the world (as well as in their own country) doesn't deserve a mention on the third most popular website's main page next to anything mentioning positive change there 5.44.170.9 (talk) 08:02, 8 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Law isnt passed until August next year. This is just a stament of intent at this point and changes nothing. This should be brought up if the law is actually passed85.159.132.48 (talk) 08:36, 8 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose as premature. Unless this gains sufficient notability to justify its own article, I would likely oppose its renomination as well. That said I would gently remind those who may be unaware that we do not weigh nominations based on any political criteria. Nor do we encourage politically pointed commentary in our discussions. Please see...
WP:NOTFORUM. And lastly, while we may discuss to our hearts content, we ask that editors actually vote only once (even if your IP changes). -Ad Orientem (talk) 17:24, 8 August 2019 (UTC)[reply
While I can't be sure (hence my decision not to strike the latter vote), there are some remarkable similarities in their style of commentary. So yes, I strongly suspect they are the same person. -Ad Orientem (talk) 17:59, 8 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Not the same person.... and no idea how you would come to that. I am unfamillier with how to format pages so i copy whoever is above me, still learning and my work computer wont let me log into my account. Pleasae assume good faith85.159.132.48 (talk) 08:17, 9 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose for now, without prejudice when/if it actually becomes law. – John M Wolfson (talk • contribs) 22:31, 8 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Even if this were significant enough to post (I am ambivalent on that), it has now fallen from headlines. It was first reported late July and most mainstream media by August 1. Nothing substantial thereafter. – Ammarpad (talk) 11:14, 9 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose – In the global scheme this administrative change would be of only passing significance. Sca (talk) 15:33, 9 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The death toll of the heat wave in Japan rises to 57, while 18,347 others are hospitalized. (Japan Times)
Law and crime
2019 California stabbing rampage
A Garden Grove, California, man stabs and kills four people and wounds two others in a two-hour crime spree at a series of Orange County locations. Both injured victims are expected to survive. The motive of the 33-year-old suspect, who was arrested at the last scene, appears to be robbery as well as "anger and hate." (CNN)(AP via KESQ-TV)
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Updated, reliably sourced, of sufficient quality sentausa (talk) 14:35, 13 August 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
It's very close, but the last sentence of "Personal views" about being called an AIDS denialist 100% needs sourcing, and the awards need sourcing. Should not be hard to get this up before it slips off as stale. --Masem (t) 14:52, 13 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I see the article but it's far too short for ITN. And checking news -- coverage is surprisingly light. I mean, we have BBC and NYTimes covering it, but its not bringing up as many hits as I thought. We do need to consider that this region is unstable, there are similar bombings happening all the time, and the news tends to be weary of it, hence the lack of coverage. --Masem (t) 22:27, 8 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Weak support as long as we post mass shootings in the US, there should be nothing stopping us posting these terror attacks in other similarly-afflicted countries. Weak because article isn't pulling up any trees, but just adequate. The Rambling Man (REJOICE!) 07:28, 9 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support It seems initially this was nominated without a standalone article, but now we have something and it looks presentable. – Ammarpad (talk) 11:16, 9 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose – Sketchy – 190 words of real text – and such bombings are virtually commonplace for Afghanistan 18 years after the ill-fated U.S. invasion. – Sca (talk) 15:43, 9 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Sca: The number of mass shootings in the US has also increased in which there are 250 already in 2019 only. That is probably more than the amount of bombings in Afghanistan so far. --BoothSiftTalks 05:40, 10 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Weak oppose – That article just doesn't cut it for me I'm afraid. Gonna need quite the revamp until its eligible to be on the front page.
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Start Class article. I am working to fix the sourcing with good sourcing. DBigXrayᗙ 06:22, 8 August 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
Support Berman was an influential musician in the indie scene whose return from hiatus last month drew with significant press attention, including profiles in Pitchfork and the AV Club as well as a reddit AMA. The wiki article is well written, thoroughly sourced, and up-to-date. Diabolical Dr Ely 15:15, 8 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Unsourced paragraphs. Also the "Beginnings" section is mostly unreferenced as the one source listed supports only a small portion of the section. Possibly the case further throughout the article but I am not going to check at the moment. Hrodvarsson (talk) 05:00, 9 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose There are entirely unsourced paragraphs throughout the article. More references are needed--BoothSiftTalks 05:45, 9 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose too much unref at this time. The Rambling Man (REJOICE!) 07:30, 9 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Fixed A lot of improvements have been done in the sourcing area to make it worthy for ITN RD. Requesting a review again. --DBigXrayᗙ 11:47, 10 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support – Article issues appear to have been resolved. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 17:03, 10 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Posted - Concerns above appear to have been resolved. Sam Walton (talk) 09:07, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Speculative trivia. Stephen 23:17, 7 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Article:
Tardigrades (talk·history·tag) Blurb: Tardigrades: 'Water bears' stuck on the moon after crash (Post) News source(s):BBC
Nominator's comments: The moon might now be home to thousands of planet Earth's most indestructible animals. 86.187.166.122 (talk) 21:30, 7 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Comment In the unlikely event we post this, we need an actual reliable source; the one you've misleadingly labelled as "BBC" is actually
Oppose. Not due to lack of reliable sources (e.g. CNN), but ITN-level significance not established. Cute picture, though! El_C 22:08, 7 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Start Class article with excellent sourcing DBigXrayᗙ 16:25, 7 August 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
Support - good to go.--BabbaQ (talk) 20:10, 7 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose While well-referenced, the article has no sections and is too sparse in its coverage of the subject (the article and talk page still state that it's a stub); there is no lede/introduction; a good portion of the article consists of listing information in prose format (movies he produced and directed); and the longest paragraph currently in the article consists of just 3 sentences. SpencerT•C 02:05, 8 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
FixedUser:Spencer Thanks for the useful feedback, I have expanded the article since you last reviewed. May I request you to take another look if you can support this.--DBigXrayᗙ 07:47, 9 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support satis. The Rambling Man (REJOICE!) 07:32, 9 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support Looks much better now. – Ammarpad (talk) 11:19, 9 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
International sanctions during the Venezuelan crisis
U.S. PresidentDonald Trump signs an executive order freezing all assets and interests of the Venezuelan government as contained within the United States, a severe escalation from recent industry sanctions and verbal rhetoric. Twenty-one exceptions are issued, for companies providing services including oil, aid, and telecommunications. The expanded sanctions are widely criticized as likely to worsen the conditions for people in Venezuela. (Reuters)(BBC News)
The Argentine government says it has already received "hundreds" of reports of human rights abuses and criminal accusations against the Venezuelan government, days after Argentina invited Venezuelans in the country to file reports against the Venezuelan government. (La Nación)
Science and technology
Scientists at the
cryptobiotic state were added to the payload of the failed SpaceILBeresheet lander that crashed on the Moon on 11 April 2019, and may have survived the crash. (The Guardian)(CNET)
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Start Class article with excellent sourcing DBigXrayᗙ 12:48, 8 August 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
Comment - the article seems to be incomplete at the moment... It has a "Background" section and a discography, but where's the "Foreground" section?! The main body of the article should be describing his career in a bit more detail than at present. The Books section is currently unreferenced. Other than that, this looks OK. Cheers — Amakuru (talk) 12:53, 8 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Amakuru thanks. The background is now renamed to Biography. The Book section is now referenced. The article is a start class and covers everything that I could find in online sources. --DBigXrayᗙ 13:18, 8 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
OK, thanks. The only thing giving me concern right now is the "Selected singles" section. That always makes me wonder who did the selecting, and whether it's a representative list. Per
WP:LISTCRITERIA there really should be some objective and sourced methodology used for the selection. I'll be happy to see what others say though. — Amakuru (talk) 13:32, 8 August 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
Oppose – Discogs is not a reliable source. It is user-generated/crowd-sourced. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 19:00, 8 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
User:Coffeeandcrumbs Thanks for the catch, I have replaced Discogs by better sources. Please review again. --DBigXrayᗙ 07:23, 9 August 2019 (UTC)[reply
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Start Class article with excellent sourcing. DBigXrayᗙ 07:56, 7 August 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
Support - I've renamed the article to Mrs YGP, as that looks like the common name (it was only moved to YGP yesterday anyway, from Rajalakshmi Parthasarathy). Sourcing and content looks OK for a start-class article, and death is cited. — Amakuru (talk) 13:30, 8 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support and agree with page move. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 19:01, 8 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support - fully sourced, marked as ready. -Zanhe (talk) 22:13, 8 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support good to go. The Rambling Man (REJOICE!) 07:35, 9 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Former Indian Cabinet Minister and one of the most prominent female politicans in India. Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 17:56, 6 August 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
Support While there are a few places where we need some sourcing, this is a well sourced article on the whole. Sam Walton (talk) 18:41, 6 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support good to go.--BabbaQ (talk) 19:01, 6 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose — Citations still needed. More importantly, there is an unnecessary
WP:CSECTION. Even Donald Trump, the most controversial person in our time, does not have a controversy section. This subject certainly does not deserve one. The section needs to be merged into the relevant sections about the respective times in her career. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 21:59, 6 August 2019 (UTC)[reply
Support - Couple citations required. Otherwise good to go. Sherenk1 (talk) 07:28, 7 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support: important article, citations should be imporved, and death section needs improvement/expansion. Will work on it. --Titodutta (talk) 12:43, 7 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support - one of the highest-ranking women politicians in Indian history, unexpected death only months after her departure from politics. Article is almost fully sourced. The few unsourced sentences are unessential and can be commented out to prevent holding up the posting. -Zanhe (talk) 22:31, 7 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Posted to RD. Regards SoWhy 06:57, 8 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Some minor but necessary sourcing problems: about 6-7 lines in the body (roughly one per main section) are unsourced. All the books should have sourcing or at least ISBN numbers. Awards should all be sourced. But it's not so far away to be fixable in a few hours. --Masem (t) 15:31, 6 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Counting sourcing by line seems arbitrary. Are there contentious statements in those lines?
A few may have been fixed but " In her position at Princeton, Morrison used her insights to encourage not merely new and emerging writers, but artists working to develop new forms of art through interdisciplinary play and cooperation." in "Princeton Years" is certainly a statement that cannot go unsourced in WP voice. --Masem (t) 16:28, 6 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Masem: Thank you for opposing. I think I got every taken care. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 21:45, 6 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
That definitely all looks better, and so I'll go ahead and post this as RD, leaving the blurb discussion ongoing. --Masem (t) 21:51, 6 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Suggest blurb - Nobel laureates who are also household names probably meet any reasonable criteria for having been a "major transformative world leader in their field". Smerdis of Tlön - killing the human spirit since 2003! 16:41, 6 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support blurb I would also say Toni Morrison was a major world figure, massively loved and appreciated all over the world. Kingsif (talk) 17:11, 6 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
We do want to avoid "popularity" as a reason for a blurb. That got us into a mess with people like Carrie Fisher. Accomplishments is a different matter though. --Masem (t) 17:22, 6 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support RD, no blurb I don't think the reactions to the death have or will become so newsworthy, as it did with Bowie, Mandela, Prince, etc., to merit a blurb. – Muboshgu (talk) 18:17, 6 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose blurb per Muboshgu.--WaltCip (talk) 18:26, 6 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support blurb Globally acclaimed author, Pulitzer and Nobel laureate, clearly at the top of her field. The so-called "Thatcher–Mandela standard" is not policy and is much too restrictive; and if we're comparing Morrison to Bowie and Prince, then I believe Morrison definitely qualifies for a blurb. Davey2116 (talk) 18:59, 6 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Davey2116, the "Thatcher-Mandela standard" is about whether the death is in the news or whether the death is the news. The Thatcher/Bowie/etc deaths were the news. Morrison's death is in the news. – Muboshgu (talk) 19:54, 6 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Muboshgu Reactions to her death are pouring in from many other authors and even many politicians, far exceeding the average RD death, so I'd say Morrison's death is the news. Besides, the news of deaths of pop-culture or political figures have greater reach partly due to the inherent nature of those professions, while our job is to be even-handed in giving blurbs to all who are at the top of their field. Davey2116 (talk) 20:32, 6 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support blurb Nobel laureate and first African American woman to receive the Nobel Prize in Literature. Quite obviously a transformative leader in her field as evidenced by, e.g., Atlantic Magazine'sobituary headline referring to her as "peerless". Maya Angelou, along with two dozen other authors, cosigned a 1988 letter in the New York Times Book Review saying of Morrison, "For all of America, for all of American letters, you have advanced the moral and artistic standards by which we must measure the daring and the love of our national imagination and our collective intelligence as a people." By all accounts, satisfies our criteria for a blurb. Wug·a·po·des 19:52, 6 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I want to expand on the significance of the 1988 letter. A group of some of the greatest African-American writers of the late 20th century believed that Toni Morrison was of such importance to literature and her snubs in her own country so acute, that "the legitimate need for our own critical voice in relation to our own literature can no longer be denied." They explicitly pull rank, the authors point out their own standing in the field and canon, in order to emphasize the esteem in which the field of literature holds Morrison. That these two dozen authors and critics published a joint letter in one of the United States most respected book reviews to praise not simply Morrison's work, but Morrison herself is indicative of the impact she has had on her field. For anyone mulling over whether she was one of the greatest living authors, I encourage you to read the answer her peers give to that question. Wug·a·po·des 20:42, 6 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support blurb per Wugapodes.
talk) (Vanamonde93's alternative account) 20:03, 6 August 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
Support RD, weak support on blurb The article is in good shape aside from the awards list. Regarding the Mandela-Thatcher level, it was a good thing that we expanded potential blurbs first towards internationally significant personalities outside of the Western sphere, and then towards non-politicians. Does Toni Morrison meet the Mandela-Thatcher level for authors, however? Would I describe her as one of the greatest living authors? My first instinct was no. The Nobel Prize does assist in establishing greatness, but at the same time if a Nobel Prize was an automatic blurb then we'd have twelve new blurb-worthy people every year. But I decided on a weak support after noting several sources acclaiming Toni Morrison as one of the greatest female authors ever, living or dead, dating from before her death. NorthernFalcon (talk) 20:15, 6 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. It has been remarked above that Toni Morrison was the first African-American woman to receive the Nobel Prize in Literature. Looking at the List of Nobel laureates in Literature, it appears that so far she is the first and the only black woman, of any nationality, to have received the Nobel Prize in Literature, and one of only two black people, again of any nationality, to have ever received this prize (the other recipient being Wole Soyinka). Nsk92 (talk) 20:43, 6 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support blurb - remarkable woman. Article is ready as wellBabbaQ (talk) 21:06, 6 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support blurb – A transformative figure in her field. I have taken care of the needed citations. I hope no one minds that I added myself to credits. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 21:45, 6 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Posted as RD but discussion on the blurb should continue. --Masem (t) 21:51, 6 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support Blurb Her peers felt she was of Mandela-Thatcher level importance. If you make a list those you perceive to be the greatest living authors and they are mostly white men, that should tell you something. GreatCaesarsGhost 22:17, 6 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support blurb. Transformative character, and I'd say we're nearing consensus at this point. — Amakuru (talk) 23:17, 6 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support blurb Meets the transformative figure test, and her death is front page news. Pawnkingthree (talk) 23:23, 6 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Shifted from RD to blurb. Consensus is in favor of posting as a blurb. SpencerT•C 01:30, 7 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
A Libyan National Army airstrike on the southern Libyan town of Murzuk reportedly kills at least 43 people and injures 51 others, according to local officials. An LNA spokesperson says the raid had targeted "Chadian mercenaries". (France 24)
RMS Titanic and HMS Belfast, collapses into administration. All 130 employees have been given redundancy notices, and the company is expected to cease trading after 158 years. (BBC News)
Disasters and accidents
A bus carrying volunteer doctors from La Paz towards the north of Bolivia crashed, leaving 14 dead and 21 injured. (NDTV)
A fire and large explosions at a
ammunition dump prompts the mass evacuation of civilians from the nearby city of Achinsk. (RFE/RL)
Colombia grants national citizenship to all children born in the country to Venezuelan parents since August 2015. The measure will be in force for two years. (Reuters)
Hong Kong citizens call for a city-wide general strike with various sit-ins in seven districts. With around 2 million residents participated in the strikes, thousands of workers announcing their participation, over 200 flights were cancelled, MTR lines halted and the Hang Seng Index dropped sharply. Chief Executive Carrie Lam blamed protesters for "destroying Hong Kong" and rejected their demands. (Bloomberg)(Hong Kong Free Press)
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Start Class article with decent sourcing DBigXrayᗙ 06:34, 6 August 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
Support Much improved since I saw this page about 12 hours ago. Great work for thos involved. LugnutsFire Walk with Me 07:19, 6 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support - improvements completed.BabbaQ (talk) 07:47, 6 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Weak oppose some good work here, but a [citation needed] in there now, and why are the various cycling events sometimes in italics when their articles aren't? The Rambling Man (REJOICE!) 07:52, 6 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support good work, good to go. The Rambling Man (REJOICE!) 13:58, 6 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: C-class article, not sure if nominated yet. Death reported on August 4th. BoothSiftTalks 01:03, 6 August 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
Weak oppose just one [cn] as far as I could see, but otherwise what's there appears (assuming good faith on the Russian language sources) to be fine. The Rambling Man (REJOICE!) 07:56, 6 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support satis. The Rambling Man (REJOICE!) 09:30, 6 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support. I added a ref for the sentence that had a [cn] tag and added an extra citation in that paragraph. I also spot-checked a bunch of the Russian sources cited in the article and things were OK there. The article looks to be in fairly good shape. Nsk92 (talk) 09:06, 6 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
talk ·history·tag) Blurb: India revokes special status for Kashmir. (Post) Alternative blurb: India's government has revoked the part of the constitution that gives Indian-administered Kashmir special status in an unprecedented move likely to spark unrest. Alternative blurb II: India revokes special status for Kashmir and splits the state into two Union territories. Alternative blurb III: India sends troops to Jammu and Kashmir, revoking its special status and establishing Ladakh as a separate territory. Alternative blurb IV: India revokes Jammu and Kashmir's special status and establishes Ladakh as a separate territory. News source(s):BBC, NDTV, NYTimes, AP
I have no idea what that means and the article, which is not linked from the blurb, does not explain it really either. Also, the source says "plans to revoke", not "revokes", which is not the same. Regards SoWhy 06:48, 5 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
now linked. --DBigXrayᗙ 06:49, 5 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
A better blurb might be "India revokes the autonomous status of Kashmir." That said, it would be difficult to explain in one short blurb the full significance of this move and the historical significance of Article 370 to the ongoing India-Pakistan conflict. NorthernFalcon (talk) 09:24, 5 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Wait until this becomes official. That might only be a few hours at this rate, but it is not currently official and no timeline has been provided regarding exactly when this will become official. This may eventually require a new article if the expected widespread protests over this move actually happen. NorthernFalcon (talk) 09:24, 5 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support - Significant. Impactful to the Kashmir region, India-Pakistan relations, terrorism and Indian politics. Sherenk1 (talk) 10:49, 5 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support with better blurb and if article quality is there. Not sure which article should be bolded. Hugely significant for the region and for India-Pakistan relations.
Support Alt Blurb II. Alt Blurb I is speculating something and Wikipedia should not be into speculation business. --DBigXrayᗙ 13:42, 5 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Wait – Tangible effects on the ground? – Sca (talk) 13:46, 5 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
There has been an increase in Indian tropes in the major cities; major utilities have gone done; non-Indians in the area have been staying off the street fearing for their livelihood. Its unstable with concerns protests could break out. --Masem (t) 14:01, 5 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
"Tropes" – you mean racial or ethnic slurs? "Gone done" = gone down? (If so, how is that related to today's constitutional order?) The AP story is headlined "unrest feared," and BBC paints a picture of uncertainty. Under the circumstances, an ITN posting seems premature. – Sca (talk) 21:09, 5 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Comment The state has not been divided yet. It's that there is consideration in play to split per NYTimes. --Masem (t) 14:01, 5 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support - Historically and politically significant, but as for the consequences only time will tell. --Saqib (talk) 14:11, 5 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support - This is of great significance and is related to Kashmir, Indo-Pak relations, India's internal politics and many more. Blurb is a bit too short. Alt blurb is a bit foreboding and judgmental of future. So I'd support Alt blurb II. Amir (talk) 14:31, 5 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support - politically important. BabbaQ (talk) 14:32, 5 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose on quality of the article. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 14:38, 5 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you. Quality is often overlooked when we get tied up parsing the blurb. I'm voting "meh" myself, but would appreciate others thoughts. GreatCaesarsGhost 16:38, 5 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support and added Alt IIIand Alt IV. I think the movement of troops and establishment of Ladakh are notable. Nice4What (talk · contribs) – (Don't forget to share a Thanks♥) 15:07, 5 August 2019 (UTC); Edited 17:48, 5 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, do we know if the split of territories already occurred? I can see special status is revoked, but I'm not sure the new Union Territories have been established. Nice4What (talk · contribs) – (Don't forget to share a Thanks♥) 15:15, 5 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Alt III India had already stationed almost 5,00,000 troops in Kashmir, I am not sure if additional 35,000 troops really deserve a mention. Rest is still acceptable. --DBigXrayᗙ 17:29, 5 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Read the linked articles. There's an additional "tens of thousands" of troops being sent because of autonomy being revoked. This is definitely significant. Nice4What (talk · contribs) – (Don't forget to share a Thanks♥) 17:43, 5 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I am aware of it. Dawn reports 8000 additional troops were sent. My point is why do we need to mention the additional 8k troops when Kashmir is a conflict zone with already half a million troops. --DBigXrayᗙ 19:25, 5 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Working Copyediting, checking tone. Support otherwise. --qedk (t 桜 c) 16:42, 5 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: Currently averaging 2.5 mil views. No better time to post imo. --qedk (t 桜 c) 15:29, 6 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support Notability has been established. Article has been greatly improved. Davey2116 (talk) 18:02, 5 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support blurb IV: Important and notable. (the articles needs be copyedited, of course). Regards. --Titodutta (talk) 18:21, 5 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
To restress: the state has not been split yet though the bill is currently in play in the legislative body. See CNN (updated 2 hrs ago). --Masem (t) 19:23, 5 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Wait till the bill comes into effect, but it is significant, because it's a major event in one of the longest-running geopolitical conflicts in the world. Also, oppose all blurbs as currently written; the term "special status" is POV and misleading. Substitute "separate set of laws" and I'd support. Vanamonde (Talk) 19:52, 5 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The bulk of the sources have called that section a "special status", as it had a unique gov't relationship compared to any other Indian state. This change revokes that. I don't see that as POV. --Masem (t) 20:47, 5 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - There is a direct
article which we could use. But that is being considered AFD as of now. Sherenk1 (talk) 09:40, 6 August 2019 (UTC)[reply
Support Alternative blurb IV: Important and is very major event not only to south asia, but to larger diplomatic and global affairs. --Pavan santhosh.s (talk) 11:55, 6 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose unless and until there's a blurb wording that actually explains the significance of this. To anyone unfamiliar with Kashmir, "Revokes special status" could mean anything from an increase in the rate of sales tax, to the introduction of a two-tier system of local government, to a full-scale ground assault and the imposition of martial law. (All examples from the real world; these are what "revokes special status" would mean in the context of Heligoland, Alaska and Hong Kong respectively.) ‑
Given that I still cannot see confirmation that the area has been split into two separate states yet (its still in legislative process), I would recommend a blurb like "India revokes the special autonomous status for the Muslin-populated Kashmir state." Understanding the full impact takes at least a paragraph, but I think identifying that Kashmir holds a Muslim majority should give the main page reader a rough idea of the problem, with the expectation that a reader knows India is generally Hindu. --Masem (t) 16:43, 6 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support - This is a significant event which will determine the peace (Or lack thereof) of South Asia in the coming years
Support and in particular Masem's suggestion above. "Special status" should be more specific. Wug·a·po·des 20:49, 6 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Posted There was clear consensus to post. I went with ALT IV; if there are further suggestions to refine the blurb wording, I encourage you to post at
WP:ERRORS. I will do my best to check back for alternate suggestions but cannot guarantee my availability. Best, SpencerT•C 01:37, 7 August 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
Pull – We do not post orange tagged articles. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 02:39, 7 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
A car drives into three other cars causing an explosive crash outside the
National Cancer Institute Egypt campus in central Cairo, killing 20 people and injuring 47 others. The Interior Ministry says that the car that hit the others contained explosives and was to be used in a terrorist operation. The driver fled the scene before the explosion. The minister accuses the IslamistHasm Movement of being behind the attack. (Reuters)
Japan LPGA Tour, was playing outside her home country for the first time, and was also playing for the first time in a major recognized by the U.S. LPGA. (AP via ESPN)
Oppose needs copyedit from native English speaker. The Rambling Man (REJOICE!) 19:40, 5 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support satis now. The Rambling Man (REJOICE!) 10:07, 6 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
User:Coffeeandcrumbs and User:DaGizza have done extensive copy edit of the page. User:The Rambling Man may I request you to review the article again. --DBigXrayᗙ 09:56, 6 August 2019 (UTC)[reply
Post-posting comment – An oeuvre of "more than 45,000 columns" seems questionable. – Sca (talk) 14:14, 8 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The estimate is cited to the Indian Express. It doesn't seem that implausible for a prolific, veteran columnist.-- Pawnkingthree (talk) 14:26, 8 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
45000 ÷ 68 = 661 per year
661 ÷ 365 = 1.8 per day
less than 2 per day, doesn't seem shocking to me. Sca are your Arithmetic skills questionable ? --DBigXrayᗙ 15:05, 8 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Hypothetically possible if someone wrote columns every single day, day after day, for 68 years, achieving an average output of 13 per week, but most Eng.-lang columnists write only one or two columns a week over, say, a couple of decades. Seems unlikely to me, but just asking. – Sca (talk) 16:06, 8 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: One of the former Khmer Rouge leaders. Article looks reasonably sourced. Brandmeistertalk 18:53, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
Weak oppose a few unreferenced claims but mostly okay. The Rambling Man (REJOICE!) 18:56, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support article looks good, and a somewhat big deal (not enough for a blurb, but I digress). – John M Wolfson (talk • contribs) 20:44, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support This is OK for RD. – Ammarpad (talk) 06:09, 5 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support - RD ready.BabbaQ (talk) 20:45, 5 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Nominator's comments: Added an altblurb suggestion that combines the two shootings, though it might not be worded that well Kingsif (talk) 15:11, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support – I'd support Alt 1or Alt 3 once we can link reliable sources that are reporting on these massacres together (though I believe there's no connection between the two gunmen if I'm not wrong). As a standalone story for Dayton, I'd have to recall that the
Virginia Beach shooting didn't get included on ITN. Nice4What (talk · contribs) – (Don't forget to share a Thanks♥) 16:00, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
Support in principle Mass shootings are increasing on frequency. But this isn't ready yet. We need more info to expand the article. – Muboshgu (talk) 16:02, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support - I've added altblurb 2 which I think is better because the other one might suggest the shootings are related (which we don't know yet). Johndavies837 (talk) 16:07, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
If a combined sentence is used, I suggest changing "mass shootings" to "separate mass shootings". Makes it slightly more clear. — RockMFR 16:39, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support - and seems ready.BabbaQ (talk) 16:08, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Comment – Is it worth noting that 52 others were injured? That number seems especially high. Adding Alt 3 (but again, might be worded in a better way.) Nice4What (talk · contribs) – (Don't forget to share a Thanks♥) 16:14, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Comment we certainly must have a combined blurb, this isn't supposed to be a mass shooting ticker. We've already super-rapidly posted one irrelevant shooting, so we might as well post the second. As such, alt 3 is the only one with wheels right now. The Rambling Man (REJOICE!) 16:20, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The Rambling Man, it's hardly "irrelevant" when a racist Trump leads to an increase in domestic terrorism. That's what happened in El Paso, at least. – Muboshgu (talk) 16:24, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The shootings that take place are irrelevant because nothing changes. "Thoughts and prayers". When people argue against prison riots in Brazil which kill 50+ yet argue in favour of shootings in the US which kill 9+, there's clearly a serious problem. There will be absolutely no long-term effects of either of these shootings, we all know that. It's a war zone, and things like this happen every day, just like prison riots in Brazil and bombs in Iraq. But more importantly, since we rushed the El Paso one to the main page, there's no reason not to do the same with this one, and a combined blurb is essential. The Rambling Man (REJOICE!) 16:29, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Let's not go down
this rabbit hole today. Thanks. -Ad Orientem (talk) 16:40, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
Extended discussion
I agree. I wasn't surprised at all to wake up this morning to see El Paso was posted, plus ca change! The Rambling Man (REJOICE!) 16:42, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oh I'm not going any further, just establishing the importance of these shootings. And the Gilroy Garlic Festival shooting last weekend, also by a white supremacist, which I don't believe was nominated. – Muboshgu (talk) 17:02, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
"trying to" establish the importance. White supremacy killings have been going on for decades. It's just a lot easier now. The Rambling Man (REJOICE!) 17:05, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
No, you wouldn't. So I'm not replicating previous discussions here. – Muboshgu (talk) 17:07, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
That doesn't make any sense. The Rambling Man (REJOICE!) 17:08, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Did you edit your comment? Or I misread something. No matter. I'm not going down this road with you again. – Muboshgu (talk) 17:13, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I have no idea. Your comment makes no sense. And presumably as this is all new "white supremacist shootings", there's no replication or going down "this road ... again" in any case. A baseball culture of records and statistics means there will always be some kind of record broken or new reason to continually seek to post these kinds of action I suppose. From the outside, it's just another (bad) day. The Rambling Man (REJOICE!) 17:26, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Collapsed, per
WP:FORUM and despite being warned. Nice4What (talk · contribs) – (Don't forget to share a Thanks♥) 17:58, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
Oppose for now. The Ohio article is a stub and will need expansion before it can be posted. Support Alt blurb 3 in principle once the article is up to scratch. However the word "after" is not grammatically correct and should be replaced with "in." -Ad Orientem (talk) 16:23, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Ad Orientem: Updated, with the blurb now using the word "in" three times. Nice4What (talk · contribs) – (Don't forget to share a Thanks♥) 16:28, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not sure we need "In the United States". The Rambling Man (REJOICE!) 16:30, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Lots of people outside the US wouldn't otherwise know where El Paso and Dayton are; the only hint would be mass shootings, which are unlikely to happen elsewhere, but not impossible. Kingsif (talk) 16:44, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, so you could put "Texas" and "Ohio" in there instead. The Rambling Man (REJOICE!) 16:52, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
"In the United States" is what connects these two shootings (if we are to post one blurb about both events). Nice4What (talk · contribs) – (Don't forget to share a Thanks♥) 17:24, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Good point. Replaced "in" with "during." -Ad Orientem (talk) 16:33, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support. The article looks just good enough to support now that's it's no longer a stub. Because it's a separate incident, I'd prefer a separate blurb, but I understand the motivations for combining them. --Tavix(talk) 16:44, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I would normally oppose just the Dayton one because its of the smaller size -- but unfortunately the timing with the El paso one would make us seem bias to not mention both (as well as the fact the media is barrelling down this route). That said, not of the blurbs are currently satisfactory as they merge the two events. We need to identify the two events separately, including separate death counts. There's clearly no connection between the events beyond timing but a combined blurb is looking like they are. --Masem (t) 17:08, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support I agree that this is best suited for a separate blurb per Tavix and Masem. Davey2116 (talk) 17:25, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I wouldn't say a separate blurb, but the phrasing of a single blurb needs to be distinct between the two. Adding 20+9 is very much inappropriate and suggests the events are tied together. --Masem (t) 17:32, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed. I prefer a separate blurb, but the current alt blurb 3 (added by Kingsif) is okay. Davey2116 (talk) 17:40, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
For the record, when I posted this comment, the alt blurb 3 was: "In separate mass shootings 12 hours apart, 20 people are killed in El Paso, Texas, and 9 are killed in Dayton, Ohio.". Davey2116 (talk) 19:34, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Added alt4 (as alt3, removed alt1 and moved others up) - names cities rather than United States, and separated the attacks and death counts. Kingsif (talk) 17:36, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
That's creating a lot of confusion as other editors expressed support for the old alt 3. Just create a new alt blurb. -Ad Orientem (talk) 17:42, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I did originally, but it didn't want to show 4 alts, so I did the logical thing and bumped the first one off. In previous noms having to do this hasn't created confusion, and as seen in a comment right above, people quickly got their heads round by writing "the current alt blurb 3 (added by Kingsif)". Potential confusion is something I considered, but wasn't worried about, since people are generally smart. Kingsif (talk) 18:19, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Extended discussion
(edit conflict) "People" ≠ one editor. And saying since people are generally smart doesn't help. What's obvious to you isn't obvious to an editor who hadn't !voted yet. Nice4What (talk · contribs) – (Don't forget to share a Thanks♥) 18:24, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Since you insist on continuing, I'll say that I don't want to, and that I don't accept your points. Okay? More in the collapse, for explanation, because this is off-topic and shouldn't clog the page. Kingsif (talk) 18:40, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Reply to ""People" ≠ one editor. And saying since people are generally smart doesn't help. What's obvious to you isn't obvious to an editor who hadn't !voted yet."
Well, it was only relevant in the one comment, but that one editor shows how easy it was for someone to immediately read the comment.
An editor who hadn't yet voted would vote on what they saw in the nom box, and below the comment. Anyone looking through the votes could easily distinguish between the votes above the comment saying they'd changed, and the votes below, and apply them appropriately, because people are generally smart.
You sound like you're preaching at me, your first comment was rude and did not AGF, and you keep trying to preach at me off-topic about being wrong and how people aren't smart - both irrelevant to the ITN-worthiness of this, which has already been posted, and treating me like I'm dumb. And since I'm a regular at ITN, I think I know what's off-topic. I'm not enjoying this "debate", and I don't know why you want to continue, since I can't imagine it's any fun for you, either.
But I will apologize: I didn't realize you'd added a comment when I reverted the edit, I thought you'd just un-collapsed your first comment (it's back in the collapse to give context to the off-topic conversation in here, and because of it's tone. Honestly, I feel your more recent comments adding to AO's should also be in here). Kingsif (talk) 18:40, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I apologize for coming off as rude and if I made it seem like you swapped the alt blurbs to confuse editors voting. Let's carry-on as the blurb has already been posted. (Also, I added a separate collapse section just for consistency in reading). Nice4What (talk · contribs) – (Don't forget to share a Thanks♥) 18:54, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Kingsif: Don't swap Alt II and Alt III after many editors voiced their opinion to use one over the other. That causes a lot of confusion. I've reverted and restoring the original Alt III. Nice4What (talk · contribs) – (Don't forget to share a Thanks♥) 17:46, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
off topic
Not what I did, but okay. Kingsif (talk) 17:58, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I moved everything up, and I said that I moved everything up, and I said that the new suggestion was now alt3. I think that made it clear. The way you phrased your (pinged!) accusation made it seem that I wanted previous !votes to now apply to a different blurb, which is rude in the least and in no way AGF. Then you say you both reverted and restored, as if I broke something. Best you could do is be polite. Kingsif (talk) 18:16, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Blurb and Altblurb and Altblurb2 are all inappropriate as they do not mentioned the country in which these events took place. Thankfully altblurb3 includes the country. Chrisclear (talk) 17:44, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Take it up with TRM, who passionately disagreed with including "United States". I'm all for keeping it in any blurb that goes up. Kingsif (talk) 17:58, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Post-posting comment – In U.S. journalism, and in general usage, El Paso is a (borderline - !) headline city while Dayton isn't one. Suggest change to "shootings in El Paso, Texas, and Dayton, Ohio." (There's a Dayton in Texas, too.) – Sca (talk) 20:23, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
As pointed out here: "In the past 48hrs, the USA horrifically lost 34 people to mass shootings.
On average, across any 48hrs, we also lose…
500 to Medical errors
300 to the Flu
250 to Suicide
200 to Car Accidents
40 to Homicide via Handgun
Often our emotions respond more to spectacle than to data." Count Iblis (talk) 03:19, 5 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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(Closed) Franky Zapata
Clearly not happening. Regards SoWhy 19:09, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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Oppose target article is tagged. The Rambling Man (REJOICE!) 16:30, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. Great accomplishment, but the article is bad referenced. MSN12102001 (talk) 17:14, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Is this news? The nom isn't signed and didn't provide sources. Article has a big orange tag. – Muboshgu (talk) 17:15, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
This is better suited for DYK, if possible. --Masem (t) 17:31, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose as sports trivia. This nomination does not meet the minimum standards for being seriously considered here. Suggest close. -Ad Orientem (talk) 17:59, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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The African Union announces the Sudanese military council and the opposition agreed to a constitutional declaration that will pave the way to a new transitional government. It calls for the new government to be headed by six civilians and five generals, and formally places the Rapid Support Forces under military command. (BBC News)
Several hundred people are detained by Russian police at unauthorized protests in Moscow. The protests occurred because several opposition candidates were disqualified from running in the upcoming Moscow City legislative election. (RT)
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Start Class article with good sourcing DBigXrayᗙ 06:34, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
Support satis. The Rambling Man (REJOICE!) 13:03, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support - satis indeed.--BabbaQ (talk) 16:08, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Prose and source missing for highlights listed in the infobox. My concern largely stems from those raised at Wikipedia_talk:In_the_news#August_3_RD:_Joe_Longthorne about the nominator removing verifiable (though unsourced) text to expedite RD postings. The prose for the corresponding infobox highlights was commented out here. It should be verifiable. While information that is unlikely to be true can be boldly removed, infomation should not automatically be removed merely because they are not easily cited from recent obituaries. This seems counterproductive to the spirit of RD.—Bagumba (talk) 02:52, 5 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
WP:V of wikipedia. Please open a thread on the article talk page and make your case why these commented out parts dont need a source. I say they need it. I would request you to !vote on your assessment of the current article status and point out major problems if any. I would also remind that this is not a GA review. --DBigXrayᗙ 06:22, 5 August 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
BURDEN states: In some cases, editors may object if you remove material without giving them time to provide references; consider adding a citation needed tag as an interim step. People are objecting, and are also wary that might have a conflict of interest to fast track RDs to "success". Pro Bowls and All-Pro honors are easily verifiable. If you are you not familiar with American football, just ask for help.—Bagumba (talk) 06:38, 5 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
There is a difference in making an article ITN Worthy vs Accusing to fast track RDs.--DBigXrayᗙ 06:41, 5 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Do you know how to verify Pro Bowls and All-Pros? If you do not, why remove it instead of tagging it for more knowledgeable editors to do so?—Bagumba (talk) 06:51, 5 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Bagumba Please cut the crap. You are making accusations against me and despite being an admin, you lack the basic understanding that you have to provide diffs to back up your claims. Please start a thread on the talk page with the content that you believe I have wrongly commented out and then we can talk there.--DBigXrayᗙ 11:15, 5 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Weak Oppose The career section is too light for a three-time all-pro. I've seen longer for guys that washed out of the league after one season. GreatCaesarsGhost 16:46, 5 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Note I have added prose from the contentious infobox information to the body of the article, and referenced it. --Jayron32 17:10, 5 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
"contentious" indeed.—Bagumba (talk) 04:31, 6 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Comment After cleaning up some dead links in the college section, it seems that a couple of the sentences are not supported and have now been tagged.—Bagumba (talk) 04:31, 6 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
FixedBagumba Thanks a lot for for your help and good work in improving this article. I have corrected the first statement and moved the second to the talk page. Please see if you can now support this ITN/C--DBigXrayᗙ 04:01, 7 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
...Which is another way of fixing the problem of unverified and unsourced content in a
WP:BLP. I had moved the content to the talk page after sincere efforts from me to source it. Thanks for giving a helping hand on this article. regards. --DBigXrayᗙ 11:18, 8 August 2019 (UTC)[reply
Nominator's comments: Still a developing situation. Spengouli (talk) 21:36, 3 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Wait – We do not have solid information or a well-developed article to post. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 21:41, 3 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support – But don't give the manifesto Main Page free promo. Something like "racially-motivated mass shooting" is preferable but our standard neutral description is probably enough. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 00:47, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support on significance but wait for further updates to the article. 22 is a very large number even for the US, and certainly wouldn't be considered an annual occurrence if you look at List of mass shootings in the United States. -- King of♥♦♣ ♠ 21:48, 3 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support It's (just barely) long enough to post as it is. And it's a significant event in the ongoing catastrophe that is gun violence in the United States. Thoughts and prayers. – Muboshgu (talk) 21:50, 3 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Wait I support it's inclusion on the main page, but I think we should wait until a motive is established, and have it mentioned in the blurb. Alex of Canada (talk) 22:28, 3 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
We almost never mention motive in blurbs about crimes or terrorism. -Ad Orientem (talk) 02:13, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
"kills xx people" and yeah, let the dust settle first. InedibleHulk(talk) 22:34, 3 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Wait There are conflicting reports on casualties and the article is a stub. Moving to support. See below. -Ad Orientem (talk) 22:43, 3 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support – Articles need to include information on the supposed manifesto, but other than it should be added as "at least 20 dead" as that's the current death toll. Nice4What (talk · contribs) – (Don't forget to share a Thanks♥) 23:55, 3 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Obvious Support due to scope and scale of this. Wish I can contribute more to the article but I'm not at my computer at the moment. If anyone has time, please expand on the article so we can put it up as soon as possible. --AsianHippie (talk) 00:29, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support Twenty killed and there is credible evidence that this was a terrorist attack. I have updated the death toll in the initial blurb. Either is fine with me. -Ad Orientem (talk) 00:33, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support -- this is a terrorist attack and hate crime. Notable. --Rockstonetalk to me! 01:02, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support. Article is in good condition now. Updates can be made as more is known. This incident is also particularly notable because it happened very close to Mexico and involved Mexican citizens, so the Mexican government is now directly involved in assisting the victims.
Do you mind adding this information about interstate assistance to the article? Thank you. Nice4What (talk · contribs) – (Don't forget to share a Thanks♥) 01:25, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
There appears to be a strong consensus to post with no opposition. Marking this as Ready. -Ad Orientem (talk) 02:19, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Ad Orientem, sorry I'm late to the party--I wish this were a bit less passive. It's a human being who killed these people, not an abstract noun--"One subject killed at least... etc." With an "allegedly" in there or whatever. Or, to be more correcter, "one white dude". Drmies (talk) 02:22, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Drmies. The wording of both proposed blurbs is pretty consistent with how we report these kinds of things. We typically keep blurbs to a dry "just the facts please..." form. But feel free to add an alt blurb if you have a preferred wording. -Ad Orientem (talk) 02:26, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I went with the alt blurb, since it seemed like the one that read most naturally, but if anyone find that phrasing to still be awkward, I also encourage you to propose a different alt. El_C 02:36, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I think it's fine. We try to be careful with blurbs about controversial events so as to avoid any appearance of using the main page for editorializing. We have reported G-- knows how many terrorist bombings, but we never mention who is behind them & etc. -Ad Orientem (talk) 02:44, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The problem is the verb kills has the subject A mass shooting. A shooting "leads to" or "results in deaths". People kill. But I also hate calling it "deaths" because that is a weak word. I don't know. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 02:51, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
You just (edit conflict)ed me. I was also going to say we should lead with the victims. "At least 20 are killed in a mass shooting in El Paso." – Muboshgu (talk) 02:59, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I am not opposing this posting at all - it is clearly more tragic than other US shootings, but in it wake, a statistic to remind editors here why US shootings tend not to get posted: per USA Today, the US has had 250 mass shootings through the first 215 days of this year. Exceptional cases like this should be posted, but not your "average" one. --Masem (t) 04:51, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Masem. I have to admit, I came to this discussion section after seeing the blurb posted on the main page and I was very much expecting more (any?!) oppose votes. I'm not sure I understand the distinguishing characteristic here. Is it number of deaths? I'm also considering the decision to post this blurb to the main page in light of 2019 Dayton shooting, of course. --MZMcBride (talk) 09:49, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
"At least"? It's not a typhoon or earthquake, the bodies have been recovered and counted. Twenty. Complications kill later sometimes, but if so, update rather than sound pessimistic till then. InedibleHulk(talk) 05:46, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
That still does not signify absolute certainty and it's what reliable sources say. The counted are 20, yes, we know that; what of the uncounted?. So this is not about sounding pessimistic, it's about reporting things the encyclopedic way. – Ammarpad (talk) 07:57, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
There were also 20-some shot and injured in non-stable condition at local hospital. Those would add to the tally if those shots prove fatal , and hence why "at least" is used. --Masem (t) 14:08, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Second shooting? Should we change the blurb to incorporate the second shooting in Ohio? Dalran (talk) 09:23, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
No, unless the events are related. If the Dayton shooting is to be posted, a separate discussion is needed. --Tone 09:34, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Ironically I would tend to agree that both (or neither) should be posted, 29 dead in a matter of a few hours in two separate shootings, neither of which will change anything at all, regardless of the clear tragic nature of such events. (For context, a total of eleven people were killed in London by shooting in the whole of 2018.) The Rambling Man (REJOICE!) 13:02, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Combining the two shootings, arguably related thematically and timewise, could be done. – Sca (talk) 14:03, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
We have to draw the line somewhere. The garlic festival shooting was even more trivial in the big scheme of things. The Rambling Man (REJOICE!) 08:06, 5 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Understood - As a Californian, it certainly feels relevant (I was in Gilroy the day of the shooting), but I leave judgment to you guys. 50.1.50.14 (talk) 18:35, 6August 2019 (UTC)
Support satis. The Rambling Man (REJOICE!) 12:59, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Weak oppose. Joe_Longthorne#Television is pretty underwhelming: right now there is 1 sentence each about his show and his 3 albums. Since this is what he seems to be notable for, there could be greater depth of coverage about this area. SpencerT•C 23:11, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I just noticed this conversation: Wikipedia_talk:In_the_news#August_3_RD:_Joe_Longthorne. While the discussion regarding hiding content should be there, I think this highlights how limited the article is in covering his career in its present visible state. Best, SpencerT•C 23:14, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
User:Spencer Please tell me how I can convince you to support this. I have expanded the article and refs, since you have voted. The article has a long way to go before it gets GA status but I dont see that it has any surmountable problems that it cannot be promoted to mainpage. regards--DBigXrayᗙ 07:02, 5 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
My issue with the article isn't with referencing; you have done a great job with that. My concerns are over the depth of coverage of the subject's career for which he is notable. Reading the section on Television, I see several TV programs listed that he was involved in, such as The Joe Longthorne Show, Les Dennis Laughter Show and the Royal Variety Performance. But what is he known for doing on these shows/what is his role? The article mentions that he has 3 albums: what genre was it? What was the reaction to them? Similar information like that. Otherwise, I'm left with what's essentially a bulleted list in text form, without a lot of "meat" to the bones. For me, RD-worthy articles need to have sufficient depth of coverage in the work that the subject is principally known for, and based on what I see in the lede, this is what Longthorne is known for. I hope this provides more clarity. Reasonable minds may disagree with my assessment of the article, and I understand that. I hope this provides more clarity behind my reasoning. Best, SpencerT•C 20:27, 5 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Fixed the TV section and his career expanded as suggested. I have added whatever meat I could find. --DBigXrayᗙ 02:35, 7 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
A gunman opens fire in the home of his ex-wife in Zagreb, Croatia, killing six, including a ten-year-old child. He later committed suicide after a manhunt. (Reuters)
Saudi Arabia grants women the right to travel without permission from a male guardian, and expands their marriage and custodial rights in a series of royal decrees. (Reuters)
Japan carries out the first executions this year, hanging Koichi Shoji, 64, who killed two women in 2001, and serial killer Yasunori Suzuki, 50, who killed three women between 2004 and 2005 in Fukuoka Prefecture. (Kyodo News)
Alexandra Măceșanu, saying she was "taught not to get in cars with strangers". A 65-year-old man has since admitted killing Alexandra Măceșanu and another teenage girl who has been missing since April. (BBC News)
Nominator's comments: This is basically the treaty between US and Russia that ended the Cold War. This is the formal withdraw (not planned, not expected), the INF treaty is considered dead by both sides. Masem (t) 17:20, 2 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support This is notable per nom. Article is in good shape. Davey2116 (talk) 18:12, 2 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support – End of an era in relations between two major world powers. Article looks well sourced and well kempt. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 18:27, 2 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Conditional support In the past nomination it was argued that Congress should do the thing. But in a quick glance of recent news I didn't find any mention of Congress voting to withdraw from the treaty. This suggests it was Trump's unilateral decision. The update would look better with clarification of this issue and whether there was a formal written executive order. Brandmeistertalk 19:34, 2 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I realized on that articl there wasn't a para on the actual withdraw, which I have expanded on, including that article from NBC, and added a few other details that are clear from reporting (that a new US missile test is going to happen RSN now without the treaty, and Russia wants to try to talk more). --Masem (t) 20:29, 2 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose – The demise of the Intermediate-range Nuclear Forces (INF) Treaty has been a foregone conclusion since since last year when both sides announced they would withdraw. Its formal expiration on Friday has little practical impact at this point. Keep in mind the INF treaty doesn't govern long-range nuclear missiles, which are covered by the New START treaty, due for renewal in 2021. – Sca (talk) 21:50, 2 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
But also remember the nuke with the shortest distance to travel will likely be the first to land. Won't matter much if MAD works. But if it doesn't, it'll be even bigger news than McGregor dusting Aldo. InedibleHulk(talk) 00:07, 3 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support This is a significant development in global and especially European security. The article looks solid. -Ad Orientem (talk) 22:12, 2 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose this really isn't making international news at all. And per Sca, please contextualise this, it's pretty small fry. The Rambling Man (REJOICE!) 22:34, 2 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose The terms of the deal have been broken repeatedly (and allegedly) by both sides already, so it died back when, if you ask me. But I also opposed the Iran deal blurb, which posted regardless, and at least this one might lead to bombs. If it wins, I prefer Alt Blurb. InedibleHulk(talk) 23:44, 2 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support major international development, regardless of how well the terms were adhered to recently.
US$300 billion worth of Chinese exports starting September 1. (CNBC)
Disasters and accidents
The town of Whaley Bridge in Derbyshire, England, is evacuated after heavy rain and flooding causes structural damage to the nearby dam at the Toddbrook Reservoir amid fears the dam could collapse. A severe flood warning has been issued for communities situated along the River Goyt. (BBC News)
U.S President Donald Trump says that he is considering a blockade of Venezuela as the U.S increases pressure on President Maduro to step down. (Reuters)
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Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Director of the Bob Dylan documentary Dont Look Back. More references required. Pawnkingthree (talk) 17:38, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
Oppose per nomination comment, several unreferenced claims. The Rambling Man (REJOICE!) 17:41, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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(Closed) RD: Harley Race
(non-admin closure) Opposition is clear to the article in its current state. This can be reverted if the article is actually improved in time before the nomination gets stale. starship.paint (talk) 03:20, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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Oppose pretty much most of it unreferenced. The Rambling Man (REJOICE!) 19:46, 1 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Man, myth and legend seem quite tangled together, even by wrestling standards. Would need a lot of work, probably not feasible in time. Prove me wrong, though, and I'll move. InedibleHulk(talk) 21:21, 1 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Even if that were true, it's no excuse. All entertainment lies, doesn't stop the respective press from covering it. If Bobby Eaton can be a Featured Article, anyone can. Probably more to do with wrestling fans historically being jerked around by the glossier magazines (who said everything's real) and the mainstream newsprint (who said everything's fugazi). Kind of drove us underground, to dirtsheets, Usenet, shoot tapes, worked shoot DVDs, Angelfire, podcasts and that guy who was at the show and swears he saw it. Not exactly "reliable", relative to White House drama or Wimbledon acts, but the gap is mending lately. InedibleHulk(talk) 18:47, 2 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Pawnkingthree: - Race was most relevant from 1965 to 1985. The people who care and know about Harley Race don't edit Wikipedia. The people who edit Wikipedia well don't care about Harley Race. starship.paint (talk) 07:16, 3 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I normally edit Wikipedia well enough and care to catch up on wrestling history I mostly missed in real time. I'm just sandbagged lately by an onscreen keyboard, lack of copy/paste and no recourse if I get edit conflicted after wasting time trying regardless. Besides, I've seen fine and poor wrestler bios from every era; it's not so simple as blaming a generation, sadly. InedibleHulk(talk) 22:08, 3 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Lugnuts: - your bias is showing. Plenty of stuff is fake / fictional - Romeo and Juliet, Harry Potter, Game of Thrones, Batman, Pokemon. Also almost all religions. starship.paint (talk) 07:23, 3 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per all above. If I can’t find any refs that mentions the unsourced information, the article needs a trip to AFD. INeedSupport:V 20:54, 2 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
CBS Sports covers him managing Super Invader and Vinnie Vegas. That reporter fell for our plagiarism trap, though, mentioning only who Vegas "really" was, screw his Heenan Family "brother" Hercules. But that part still actually happened on TV, I promise. InedibleHulk(talk) 21:22, 2 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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(Closed) Toddbrook Reservior and Whaley Bridge
consensus is this nomination is premature. Please start a new nomination if the dam does fail. --Jayron32 14:08, 2 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Nominator's comments: Extremely rare for a whole town in the UK to be evacuated. Mjroots (talk) 07:13, 2 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose nothing substantive has happened, the evacuation has affected a handful of people, trivial in the big scheme of things. If the dam bursts and massive damage/loss of life occurs, perhaps this is worth considering, but right now, it's just a preventative action which is a mild inconvenience. The Rambling Man (REJOICE!) 07:48, 2 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Wait Yes, a rare occurrences for the UK. But even for the Whaley Bridge article the event has warranted the addition of just two sentences. If the dam does burst, that will obviously be a very different scenario. Even then, however, loss of life would seem to be unlikely. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:08, 2 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
(edit conflict) Wait. If the dam breaks, then maybe it will cause enough damage to be worth posting. A precautionary evacuation does not merit an ITN blurb. Modest Geniustalk 10:09, 2 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Modest Genius already said what I was planning to say. – Ammarpad (talk) 10:14, 2 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Wait If the dam bursts it will probably prove sufficiently interesting to merit inclusion in ITN. While I disagree that loss of life should be the determining factor, I do agree that it is a factor. Since nobody has died, the evacuation is fairly small in scope, and we aren't even sure that the dam will burst this is hardly noteworthy enough to be put in the articles. Neither article mentions previous evacuations below the dam, but the dam had its spillway damaged in the 1960s, so there might have been previous high water events. Rockphed (talk) 12:35, 2 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Currently this is summed up in just one line per article. Hopefully nothing happens to the dam, but if it does, then maybe a stand-alone article would be more apt. LugnutsFire Walk with Me 12:37, 2 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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Fixed the concenrs pointed above. The Rambling Man please review. --DBigXrayᗙ 14:31, 2 September 2019 (UTC)
Working: Adding references. talk) 14:13, 2 September 2019 (UTC)]
Article: Giuseppe Conte (talk · history · tag)
Article: Ural Airlines Flight 178 (talk · history · tag)
Lefcentreright (talk) 17:19, 26 August 2019 (UTC)
Talk 17:15, 24 August 2019 (UTC)
.jpg)
Article: 
Article: Jeffrey Epstein (talk · history · tag)
Article: 
Article: Toni Morrison (talk · history · tag)
Done. El_C 03:01, 4 August 2019 (UTC)
