Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Actors and Filmmakers

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Please save as it is an on-going project. Thank you. I've been working diligently to get filmographies tabled. I started work on the film actors tab, and under that, the award winners. Some of them already had completed filmographies, a great many didn't. I have completed filmographies on the Academy Award winners, with only the following to go. It would be helpful to check the ones that are in list form for any film omissions. Some omissions I've come across were a little puzzling. Please jump in and work on the tables as possible. If you do complete one, please strike through the name. Thanks!

* - indicates there is no filmography at all

Academy Award for Best Actor to table

Academy Award for Best Actress to table

Ginger Rogers
Jane Wyman

Academy Award for Best Supporting Actor to table

Academy Award for Best Supporting Actress to table

Thanks again to anyone who feels compelled to jump in!!! Wildhartlivie (talk) 17:08, 10 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hi folks. I've recently come across

I think you said it very correctly, he's on the very fringe of notability, but I think we could err on the side of standing on the fringe line. The article could be kept for the time being, since he does continue to work and his roles seem to be growing. I'm not certain there would be a clean consensus to delete if it were nominated for deletion, and I'm not certain that a prod would stand. It's really up to you, if you think it should go, then certainly you can. Wildhartlivie (talk) 19:04, 31 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the reply. I won't do anything myself - I feel strongly that it's up to you guys to make that call, you're the ones that are dealing with this kind of article day-to-day and have a much better idea of where the notability boundary is - or where you want it to be. I suspect that a music project would probably delete, along the lines of "Come back to us when he's actually DONE something" - and surely "he might do something in future" is just a recipe for every student out of drama college to have an article? Going back to first principles, I can't find any major mention of him (beyond brief reviews etc) in a quick search of the mainstream media to establish

WP:NOTE, I thought people here might have access to specialist publications that might have profiled him. But like I say - up to you guys. FlagSteward (talk) 09:42, 1 June 2009 (UTC)[reply

]

One problem that became immediately apparent was that the article failed to mention this guy's most notable part -- he plays the lead in an award-winning television series, High Times (TV series). A quick google search for refs revealed he is well-known in Scotland (and, oddly enough, on re-runs in South America). It appears this is definitely not some "student out of drama college" who hasn't done something. It's appreciated that you sought advice first. That is always a good idea. — CactusWriter | ^needles 14:29, 1 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Oh sure, I wasn't saying that he was some student, just that one of Wildhartlivie's arguments could be applied to any student. Without High Times he looked borderline, with it he's definitely in so I'm glad you've been able to fix the article - it's bizarre that High Times is so famous in South America and not in England. I'd guess they'd have to dub it for English viewers as well, so you might as well dub into Spanish whilst you're about it. <g> FlagSteward (talk) 10:12, 6 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I'm going to get a 24-hour pass to The Stage archive this Friday, so if anybody wants any articles accessing for creating/expanding wiki articles, please list the author and title here and I'll email them to you (in a personal and non-commercial way). Bradley0110 (talk) 13:09, 2 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion going on

I agree with your view; it's a filmmaker template so comes under our scope as well as theirs. Bradley0110 (talk) 17:18, 13 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed. There's no harm in tagging the navboxes, and they do relate to this subject as well, so there's no real reason to object to their presence, although it might be useful to ensure that the Film project banner is there as well. John Carter (talk) 17:23, 13 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

What are people's opinion on those, to me excessive, succession boxes about awards. Previous winner, next winner etc. Previous Q (James Bond), next Q etc etc. Compare this with this. Which one is better? Garion96 (talk) 18:01, 14 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I never use any of this crap that's supposed to facilitate navigation. Who would? It's overwhelming. Plus it's buried under a whole column of unnecessary detail: even now there's approximately ten screenfuls of crap separating the logical end of Streep's article from the bottom of the page. Re the succession boxes, you realise that if we outlaw those there's going to be a load more navboxes created in their stead, right? Unfortunately it's a lot easier to create a navbox than it is to get rid of one. Personally I don't see why a navbox grouping all best actress oscars between 1961 and 1980, say, is better than a simple link to a complete list of winners, but such is the obstinacy of the editor set on pushing his particular interests into every conceivably related topic, and he's adopted the navbox as his polluter of choice. It's not even as if this practice is confined to the more vulgar areas of interest, just look how we treat Winston Churchill or Julius Caesar. You sometimes come across pages where all the navigation cruft is nested into a single show/hide box. I'd like to see that happen more often. Flowerparty^☀ 19:17, 14 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not a fan of those inane succession boxes at all. My distaste for the excessive use of those only is seconded by the nav templates. These awards are linked in the article, they are linked in the filmographies of the majority of articles now and these just seem to me like overkill. Then again, I have no idea why anyone would want to use more than one nav template for one award. Wildhartlivie (talk) 20:24, 14 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I don't understand why the awards use the succession boxes. After all, next years winners don't succeed this years winners, they just get next years award. As for the "Next Q" business, I tend to agree with having navboxes for television or film roles that are notable for having many different actors (e.g. James Bond, The Doctor) but don't see the point of doubling up the info with a succession box as well. Bradley0110 (talk) 20:45, 14 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Good point, and one which I've overlooked. I actually did see one not long ago that indicated in the next year's space "incumbent". Wildhartlivie (talk) 20:56, 14 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Bleurgh! Bradley0110 (talk) 21:45, 14 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Even for Q I don't see much point. It already is/should be mentioned in article text, in the filmography section, (probably a category as well) and then also a succession box? Garion96 (talk) 21:57, 14 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry for the confusion, I mean Q shouldn't have an s-box or n-box (only two actors have played him for goodness sake). Bradley0110 (talk) 07:33, 15 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

No, it was clear enough, I just misread your comment. Garion96 (talk) 08:00, 15 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I think Meryl Streep was a good example to choose, and I greatly prefer it without the succession boxes. I detest the succession boxes. I feel that they look untidy (as they are various sizes and take up a lot of space) and the clutter looks tacky and unprofessional. I don't see how they are useful. If you want to follow the succession of winners you have to load articles one by one. On the other hand if you go to the Academy Award for Best Actress page you can immediately go to any of the winners or nominees and you can avoid any you don't want to look at it. I'm all for making things easier, but the list page is about the easiest thing I can imagine, even easier than the navigation box because you can also click on the film if you wish. Rossrs (talk) 08:43, 15 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

And why don't those navtemplates have the films?? That's precisely the reason I've never clicked on names in them, I click on the award page link. Wildhartlivie (talk) 09:38, 15 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Agree. They should be fired. Why should we care who won the award the previous years.

But I must confess I often feel filmographies look too loaded with so many awards. Look at Meryl Streep, it's huge and confusing. I just don't get what films she got nominations for from, say, the BAFTA. You loose it in between. Isn't it better to organise awards per groups in separate tables, like it's done so nicely on the Angelina Jolie article? Shahid • ^Talk2me 09:50, 15 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Can't stand them and I see absolutely no value in them at all. Neither the ones for people, nor the ones for "top box office" often shoved on films. As Rossrs noted, they look unprofessional and tacky, and they just are not useful (and often remove them when I come across them). Frequently, especially for the film ones, the claim isn't even sourced in the article. I'd favor their firing across the board. -- Collectonian (talk · contribs) 13:33, 15 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I never have understood the need for these boxes and wouldn't miss them if they were eliminated. LiteraryMaven (talk • contrib) 15:09, 15 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I agree, I find that they really clutter the articles. Dr. Blofeld ^{White cat} 17:52, 15 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Julianne Moore is another good bad example. Much prefer a collapsable nav-box! Lugnuts (talk) 18:43, 15 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Wow, complete agreement. What a novel thing!! Wildhartlivie (talk) 19:59, 15 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I am as amazed as you are. :) Is there any specific MoS for this project to add this to? Or perhaps in

Wikipedia:WikiProject Films/Style guidelines? Since usually, if you can't point to a specific page in an edit summary, you get reverted. Garion96 (talk) 20:32, 15 June 2009 (UTC)[reply

]

Not in specific, although it has been discussed a bit off project. I don't know if

WP:FILM has a stance on this, but we could add it to the "to-do" list on the main page and link to this discussion as a reference, That's what was done with awards in the infobox. which I thought I had done, but have done now. That's also where we put the note about removing "_______ Award-winning" in the lead sentence. Wildhartlivie (talk) 21:32, 15 June 2009 (UTC)[reply

]

(outdent) SOOOooo, folks. Should we go ahead and implement this decision? Wildhartlivie (talk) 01:32, 19 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Would it have to be done manually? Bradley0110 (talk) 13:07, 19 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I'm less than bot savvy, so I don't know if one could do that. They don't have a template. However, it's certainly something that can be put on a to-do list and be worked on in the same way that we've gone about removing awards from the infoboxes. I do that routinely while working on filmographies and awards in them. It's just one more step in my process, at any rate. Wildhartlivie (talk) 19:16, 19 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Implementing works for me. A link at the project page to this discussion then? Garion96 (talk) 20:02, 19 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

That in an addition to the to-do list, I think. This time, I would prefer if someone else changed that! Wildhartlivie (talk) 20:36, 19 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

As part of the GA Sweeps project I have reviewed this article and reluctantly concluded that it should be delisted until concerns over referencing and the lack of broad scope are addressed. Comments have been left at Talk:Ian McKellen/GA1 suggesting ways in which the article can be improved. Thanks. Jezhotwells (talk) 22:19, 14 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

There is a discussion on the Warren Beatty talk page regarding the insertion of a rank insignia in the Military service section. I removed it when it was added because the article itself already discusses that the insignia's design has changed over the years and I believe the insignia image is merely decorative. The poster returned it and when I removed it a second time, I added my rational for removing. He's returned it again and wants input from other editors regarding. Personally, I cannot see how seeing a picture of an insignia contributes anything to the understanding of the article about Beatty, especially since the design change was mentioned already. I'm not even sure that the routine reader would care so much about a design change. I'd appreciate anyone's input on this. I'm sure there is probably policy addressing the use of decorative images, but I'm not sure where to find it. Thanks. Wildhartlivie (talk) 01:28, 19 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]