Talk:Avatar: The Last Airbender/Archive 1

This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Since this is just a theory posited by someone on a fan forum that likely has no basis (even if it is popular), is it really necessary to talk about it under the plot synopsis? I think generally fanon isn't listed on WP pages (via

Agreed. This is an encylopedia, not a rumor mill. Furthermore, such theories do not describe the actual plot in the slightest, but rather state a fan's speculation of where the plot may head; theories most certainly should not be included in the show's Plot Synopsis. The "Dark Avatar" theory should be removed. Prototime 21:35, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

Agreed as well. Per

WP:NOT, this ain't a crystal ball. Removing. Kuru ^talk

23:40, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

--P. Rodriguez 04:55, 3 September 2005 (UTC)

Once it again its me Zarfunkel and the new season was on tonight and i just watched it it was great! Anyway i'd post about it on the main page but im not skilled with the html code and stuff I just love avatar! Anyway the new season is indeed on now so watch it! -September 23 2005

"Ironically, his name means "peach" in Japanese. Actually, when Aang named Momo, Momo had grabbed a peach fruit from sokka." I am going to change this, because it isn't actually Ironic and it could be condensed a bit.Headrattle 03:03, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

when the heck does nick air new episodes? it doesn't seem to be consistent. if anyone has this information please add it

I don't know the answer exactly, but I don't think they are going to air anything for a while.

Hey everyone here! To answer your question first person who posted here, Avatar is currently on hiatus (is that how you spell it?) No new episodes till next year! :( Isn't that horrible! The next season has 22 episodes i think. Whoever did this page did a great job! Anyone who wants to discuss avatar did you know that nick.com has 5 message boards you can post on about avatar? Its fun stuff. My nickname (username on nick) is Zarfunkel by the way

HEy everybody its me Zarfunkel again and guess what?! I was absoulutley wrong. THe new season is this fall!!! Yay! 20 new episodes not 22 i think. Anyway I got this information off nick.com so it should be right!

The only thing this page needs is pics. RentACop 20:24, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

For some reason Nick hasn't been re-airing episodes from Fridays on Saturdays, but instead airs reruns. That makes it somewhat easier to miss episodes. --

The new season -- as in, second half of book 2 -- starts up in September, just like it did last year. And, just like the rumors spread last year, it does NOT start next year in January. Every Book has 20 episodes, no more or less. 68.171.240.254 14:40, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

I'm guessing as the show continues, this particular section may end up becoming quite long. Perhaps it would be best to move it to its own article. Virogtheconq 04:58, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

I don't know where would be a proper place to put this, so I'm sticking it here. Lesoria 06:50, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

• The word Bender, refering to one who bends, is always capitalized. Likewise, Airbender, Earthbender, Waterbender, and Firebender are always capitalized, and are one word each.
• The act is bending, without capilization (unless it is the first word of a sentence). This would be airbending, earthbending, waterbending, and firebending.
• Following these rules, bends and bended and other variations of the act of bending would not be capitalized.

If these naming conventions are used, it will allow all of the Avatar pages on Wikipedia to keep the same naming style.

These conventions originate from Nick.com's character pages:

Aang

"Raised by Airbender monks"

"Aang is the last Airbender"

Katara

"become a Waterbender"

"the art of waterbending"

"meets a master Waterbender"

"which makes waterbending look"

Sokka

"lack of bending abilities"

"thinks Benders are"

"prefers tools and weapons to bending"

Zuko

"teenage Firebender"

"even for a Firebender"

Please use Nick.com's naming conventions in articles!

Lesoria

Also found on Nick.com about Badgermoles:

"These giant animals are a cross between a badger and a mole. Badgermoles use Earthbending to make tunnels and travel underground, where they hunt for prey and live. Badgermoles were the first Earthbenders -- they are blind but they use their Earthbending to feel the ground and "see". A little known fact about the Badgermoles is their love for music -- if the right music is played, you can get a badger mole to do just about anything."

As evidenced by this paragraph, Nick.com might not be the best source for canonical naming conventions -- it's riddled with inconsistencies, like "Badgermole" and "badger mole". I'd say that "[element]-benders" are always capitalized, but "[element]-bending" has been either, and I see more value and consistency in keeping it capitalized along with the people who perform the action.

As an appended rule, although it says "badger mole" above, I have seen "Badgermole" far more often. The rule should be to always capitalize hybrid animal names, and that the two animals names should be one or two words, as specifically evidenced in writing. However, names that do not consist of two animal names such as "Canyon Crawler" are most definitely two words.

--Tryforceful 05:50, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

wait, why are we capitalizing all animal names? They are still just animals, I see no reason to capitalize their names for general use. As for when hybrid names are joined, *shurg*, I've got no call on that, I just mostly used the names AvatarSpirit let me use. Maybe there should be a larger rule about it. Some names, like badgermole, look good joined. Others, like buffalodeer, look better seperate.

As for earthbending, I vote that we keep it uncapitalized like an art form similar to painting, writing, ect. H2P 06:15, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

By that logic, why capitalize Benders? "They are still just people, I see no reason..." I have always seen animal names capitalized where it is evident that the writer knew Avatar well, i.e. on most official sites/writings, etc. Where people have written it like "badger mole" above, they obviously wrote it all in lowercase because they were thinking of the animals we are familiar with in our world, which never are capitalized, and hence why the space was also added, because we consider them separate entities. But these are not our animals, they are different, otherworldly creatures we aren't familiar with, and thus we should use the name conventions that are provided for us. Again, currently on Nick.com's flash Avatar site, when viewing individual episode summaries, the "Creatures" section for each capitalizes all animal names, even both words when there are more than one. The first capital letter's importance could be argued, but the fact that the second word (when present) is also capitalized proves that capitalization should be canon.

As for spacing, yeah, it's up to how it looks and how they say. I wasn't really trying to make a definite rule out of it, as it might've seemed, but to say: "It's a definite rule that there is no rule." ^_^

And you really think that we should have "Earthbender" but "earthbending", when they're so similar at a glance? I think it'd get confusing and seem like the article needs copy-editing to readers who don't know about the series; we should stick to the same for both noun and verb. Since it's definitely "capital Bender", I'm swayed to capitalize the action, but I guess it is up to your personal preference... On that note, we should find out what others think about it in another talk section.

--Tryforceful 07:41, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Not sure if my opinion should be take for much, but I' ve always written both the noun and verb lowercase. 69.214.31.217 20:41, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Where is Kyoshi Island in the Avatar world? I added it to the Earth Kingdom places, and was told that's not the right place for it. I re-watched the episode, and the characters are definitely dressed as Water Nation, but it was pulled from that page. I know they're not Fire Nation or Air Nomads. In which nation's territory does this island fall? Lesoria, quite confused, 00:39, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

It is confusing. It seems to be a south Earth Kingdom Island, but from the dress it looks like it might have Water Tribes settlers in it's past.

The suggestion from Distant Horizons is that it is in the south either the white islands making it Air Nomad area or in the yellow islands near the main contanent making it Earth Kingdom territory. The text just says that it's a southern island somewhere.

My opinion is that it might be an Earth Kingdom land (Given the nature of the avatar from there) with Southern Water Tribes connection.

HVulpes

Spot coloring of blue clothes do not a Water tribemember make. Katara didn't say anything about an island Water Tribe, after all. Of the nations, Earth Kingdom inhabitants are the most heterogenous in clothing and ethnic makeup. (remember the Great Divide? Yellow, white and brown) I'm inclined to view Kyoshi's green clothing, and her and the warror's square head-ornament motifs (Echoing those of Earth Kingdom troops) as marks of the southerly system of Eath Kingdom islands shown on the world map. There would be no snowless ground in the Poles, and Aang would be shrieking if they were Air Nomads. EDIT: And Nickelodeon's Suki E-trading card gives her nation as Earth That settles that. --172.135.185.251 08:02, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

All right, I'll add Kyoshi Island back to Earth Kingdom, with a note on the edit saying such about the card, but if anyone takes it off of there, I'll ignore it from there. Got better things to do with my time, and it wouldn't get anyone anywhere. Lesoria 09:22, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

...oh, I see it is already back on there. Well, then, that settles that =P Lesoria 09:23, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

no it does not it is a colany occupied by both it may be a agreemant from both nations to make one which water tribe people follow rthe rules of the water tribe and same for earth kingdom kind of like how washinton dc is made from maryland and virgina djf2014

OK, Are you saying Avatar Kyoshi was born in a colony and centuries later it is a disputed colony? The Avatar has one native element.

Disputed colony?... Southern Water Tribe is defenseless, Northern Water Tribe constintly on the defense, Earth Kingdom would not attack their own colony, Aang is the only known Air Nomad, and they have stayed out of the Fire Nation's imperialist war. (Before Aang visited) ---Azaza767 22:29, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

Ok, Avatar Day answered or did to a degree, the town was connected to a mainland with dry, Earth kingdom, environment until Avatar Kyoshi divided it from that mainland and created Kyoshi Island. So... I'll have you chose what it means for yourself. --Azaza767 00:35, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

I see a lengthy section dedicated to the production credits. What purpose do the production credits serve on an encyclopedic article? This information is equally available on sources such as TV.com or the Internet Movie Database. I see no similar lists of production crews on other pages for television shows, past or present. The section just lengthens the article to an absurd length. Ryulong 01:09, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

A riffling through Wiki's archive of featured TV-related articles turns up full production credits in the extensive article for

Dawson's Creek, but admittedly, this feature is nowhere else among comparable featured articles. (I didn't bother checking non-featured ones) Do you think they should be deleted wholesale? I'm all for it, but I'd like a go-ahead from someone else first.--Buinne

16:38, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

No replies appear forthcoming, but I'll go ahead and do it. It does look messy.--Buinne 22:05, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

I guess it's a little late to be weighing in on this, but IMO they shouldn't be deleted wholesale - just cut it down to the major credits (producers, directors, maybe main writers, etc.). Virogtheconq

Existing sites in the Wiki link listing for "Avatar: The Last Airbender" include informative fan pages, forums, screencaps, and art galleries. Distant Horizon just added an oekaki capability in the past few days. We've developed a fan service site (AvatarSpirit.Net[1]) which includes the above as well as topic-specific chat, complete episode transcripts, audio clips, and a php/mySQL-based crew/VA/character/episode database which allows easy identification of ALL crew involved in each episode and what role they played in each. The database includes plenty of fields to expand on our knowledge of each member of the crew, with integration into the whole. We also have staff educated in classical and asian history and are including articles drawn from this knowledge. I respect that Wikipedia is not a fanlisting, but I would respectfully request we be added to the short list given the unique content we're providing the Avatar fan base.

It should be noted our production credits are extensive and as complete as existing info allows. This might help with addressing the above topic.

At the time you posted this message, we were being linkspammed by at least one user (a very frequent occurance, hence the disclaimer and totalitarian 'tude) so our standard links may not have been reflected. I'll try to hunt down another user or two who can help me vet the site. So far it looks nice, but I need to review wikipolicy on limits to the number of links and kinds thereof. --Buinne 22:27, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

Understood. I thank everyone for the serious consideration and will respect whatever consensus is determined. In the meantime, I'm working to fill out data on the crew. We are also posting various quality versions of the teaser for the new season. --Unbridled Joy of Flight on TitansGo.Net and AvatarSpirit.Net

I've gone over avatarspirit.net and it is quite impressive considering how much time it has been out. Your production credits are indeed extensive, but stil not quite enough content for right now. (P.S. the 2X02 trailer is not working for me) --McMeaty

The production credits are actually complete for every episode thus far, including the Season 2 premier, and crew content includes everything I've been able to find anywhere on the 'net including links to Bryan Konietzko's band and Bobby Rubio's comic. We've got transcripts for every episode save 1x11 and 2x01, which will be done shortly. The credits and transcripts are unavailable anywhere else and complement Wiki in areas where Wiki has chosen not to cover. Filling out our content we have screens for every episode, a range of audio clips, character bios (with links to episode descriptions and VAs), and episode descriptions (with links to all crew and characaters). The one area we're still 'under construction' is with merchandise, but Wiki has that pretty well covered. I was operating under the impression the justification for adding another fan site to the Wiki list would be that the proffered site provide content not covered already by either Wiki or another linked fan site. Our credits and transcripts accomplish that. We're still actively developing content, though. Please suggest what other content unavailable anywhere else would be useful and we'll see what we can do. Our goal is to be a service to the fans, and we're always open to ideas on how to better accomplish that. Thanks!

The trailer is provided in .wmv format after I got feedback that my .avi codec was not working for many users of Windows Media Player. I'll post the .avi which may be more compatible with your preferred player.--Unbridled Joy of Flight

Well, thats good. I would feel more then happy for avatarspirit.net to be listed on Wiki.

(The above reply was McMeaty, incidentally) I am trying to scrounge up a third person to approve the site...sorry for the wait. Myself, I think the transcripts are enough criterion alone, but I think we need one more voice for concensus.--Buinne 06:03, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

I like the "World of Avatar" section, looking over it at a glance. Everything else looks good, too. I believe it would be a very worthy inclusion, but one must consider the content of the other sites in the list to see if this one should replace them rather than go in alongside them. --Lesoria 13:55, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Thank you to Buinne, McMeaty, Lesoria, and 1aang4 for the in-depth consideration you have given our hard work the past 3 weeks. Given the penchant for some to spam Wiki, I haven't minded in the least the vetting process to get where we got today. Earning something always feels better than being gifted it. I'm glad our hard work was found of value. I look forward to working with Wikipedians well into the future through complimentary efforts to document this wonderful show. --Unbridled Joy of Flight

An unidentified IP removed our link from the article. Based on the consensus which resulted in our link being added to it, I am reintroducing it. --Unbridled Joy of Flight

The list is starting to become a little bloated. Maybe we should just limit it to the most extensive sites. Pacific Coast Highway • ^blah 22:43, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

I think we should add Avatar Dream (avatardream.co.nr) It's currently under construction but I am at the forum and I think the website will be excellent when it's done.

Well then when it's done we'll talk H2P 05:11, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

You know there is a site called Avatarfans.net, that should be added to the Unofficals Site Section.

You're kidding right? H2P 06:57, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Could all the anonymous ip's quit spamming the external links section with their fansites. It's getting really annoying. Pacific Coast Highway ^{(blah • lol, internet)} 19:13, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

You think Airbender.net cuts it? It's a pretty popular site, and although it doesn't have info it has more graphics/fanstuff than any other site (I think). Plus a forum. It's updated very frequently, too (DH is awesome but hasn't updated in months :( )

Isn't this entire section pretty much against Wiki policy of posting copyrighted material - similar to posting lyrics? Say the word, and it'll be gone! 71.244.170.75 00:16, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps it would be better to simply move it to Wikiquote, instead of deleting it outright? It's not really a complete script or something comparable, just a quote. -redit- forgot to sign--Author X 08:18, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

About the Characters on the opening: Water is Paku Earth is unknown. I stared at that screen and the man just doesn't have the build of the Boulder. Fire is Azula. Freeze framing shows her bangs and her clothing matches that of the royal family. Air is unknown. Freezing it shows facial hair on the bender. H2P 07:53, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

I wrote up a template for the articles in Avatar. Hope it's to everyone's liking, but everyone is surely free to edit it to make it better. Should there also be a template for all the episodes? --Crisu 05:55, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

WOW! That's awsome! I'm so glad you made that! That makes everything a lot better! --Jeff.P

I think Sozin is spelled Sozen. I have proof.

I'd be curious to see the proof... there seems to be a lot of discrepancy over this, though I did discover today that the Official website (Australia) website has it spelled as it "Sozin" (see the "Zuko" character page), so I'd think that's how it should be spelled unless you have some conflicting evidence. Prototime 06:40, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

I've spoken to a number of editors about the possibility of creating a WikiProject to improve the quality of the Avatar: The Last Airbender pages, and it has received a largely positive response. I thought I'd pose the question hear as well to gain everyone's opinion on the notion. This WikiProject would serve as a medium to bring the Avatar: The Last Airbender-related pages up to par with the rest of Wikipedia through several collective iniatives, including grammar-fixing, wikifying where necessary, removing conjectural theories, removing the tons of unwarranted shipping, adding a few new pages (i.e. a page for the Spirit World), expanding some of the pages, bringing the main Avatar page up to Featured Article status, and whatever else interested parties can come up with to improve this area of Wikipedia. What are your thoughts? Prototime 06:40, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

I would be in support of that idea. Some of these Avatar pages really need to be fixed. Seriously, every episode page between

The Avatar Returns and The Deserter (inclusive) has been tagged for cleanup. Projects can do wonders for some articles. PCEevee

13:16, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

I'd like to see an animals page if possible. I have all the episodes downloaded so if necessary I can get us a cumaltive list of the different cross-breeds H2P 00:17, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Well folks, the WikiProject is now official; check it out at

there are way to many. you should cut out the other languages, this is the english article, if there are avatar articles in their respected languages, then they can add the links for the german site, etc. -Xornok 18:25, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

I kinda agree, there are too many, but still. Other people come to the English pages, to get spoilers and stuff. It is only fair to take some of there sites, and put them under our lists. For like people who speak both English and German (For example.) It's like saying the English is the only language that should be in Avatar. Which is so not cool. (Just saying) ~Sayasha (July, 13)

I was just watching episode 10 in season 2 and noticed that the professor mentioned those men as sand benders. Anything worth mentioning? Yllianos 02:42, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

I see 2:

* a differnt style of earthbending (similar to the diffrnece between Southern and Swampy Water Styles) and

* a diffrent way of life vs. the Earth Kingdom Norm

--Bud0011 13:17, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

It's not worth mentioning on the main page, keep it to the Earthbender page H2P 18:12, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

I made an edit to put character pictures with the Major characters. However, it does need to be discussed first so I reverted it afterwards. Here is what I made and suggest we do something similar http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Avatar:_The_Last_Airbender&curid=1620586&diff=64935164&oldid=64907008 Katara's picture would need to be changed and her summary lengthened a bit. Please discuss, I know one of our reasons for not making featured article before was lack of pictures. H2P 22:46, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

I like that version. Keep in mind, however, that the ultimate way the page displays depends on the browser, system resolution, etc., so it's not necessary to put the large number of spaces between Katara's and Sokka's paragraphs (even if the former is a tad lean). Virogtheconq 23:08, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

Though it looks more dynamic to have alternating images (left, right, left, etc.), I think it would be much neater in this case to have them all on the right. Possibly without the frame, too. Just shrink it and don't use the thumb keyword. --Crisu 02:53, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

So we are for it as long as we fix the formatting of how to display it? Katara's picture would need changing and her summary lengthed and am I the only one that doesn't like Aang's current picture? If we green light it I'll change add it back. H2P 05:30, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

I like the idea. I do agree that the frame on the pictures is unnecessary, and am unsure about whether the pictures should alternate positions or be aligned on the right (I'd have to see both versions first), and what pictures themselves should be used can be discussed, but as far as the actual idea goes, I'm all for it. It definetley helps to spruce up the page a bit. Prototime 05:54, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

I also like the idea, although Katara's needs to be a little longer to prevent from running into Sokka's paragraph as has been said previously. I know hers used to be longer but someone shortened it. --redsparta 06:17, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

I added the pictures. However, the following might need to be done:

• Clean-Up of all the summaries so that they are mostly equal in length (I really have no idea what else to add to Katara, I tried)
• New Picture for Katara and possibly Aang, Sokka, and Iroh (who should be listed as General Iroh IMO)
• Decide on formatting. I looked at all left and alternating and I have no opinion either way.
• Increase the picture size?

H2P 06:44, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

I've inserted my suggestion using tables and 120px images. It does look a bit lopsided with a big Sokka bio and a small Azula one, but once they even up (H2P's first suggestion), then I think it'll look great. I second the "new pic for Katara" idea. Zuko's picture may have to be cropped to 4:3 ratio, which is easy to do. --Crisu 14:15, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

The war over the template is an attempt by suspected socks to point at a second episode list article, made to get in edits that were rejected from the real episode list, and should be treated as vanadism.--Fyre2387 19:04, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Ok, this is soemthing that has been bugging me and my friend, just looking through the pages of Avatar stuff. Not to be mean, but who put you 3 (and you know who you are) in-charge of Avatar? Because who even it was, we need to have one huge talk. They should have put people who are nice incharge. Not 3 people that have to have it their way or no way.

"Why did you have to open up a whole new page, saying that I had no show-info?" I haven't the faintest clue what you're talking about. Where is this new page? –Prototime (talk • contribs) 20:58, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

Scary that you dont know.... well, heres the link: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Avatar:_The_Last_Airbender#Zuko.27s_Age ~Sayasha

Actually Sayasha, that was put up around the exact same time as the argument put up at Zuko's talk page. That's why you should sign your posts with the four tildes ~~~~ so we can see dates. And it's easy to forget what page you are referencing. The Wikiproject workers go through about 40 some pages a day, it's hard to remember where things are usually. H2P 21:13, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

As H2P pointed out, that discussion dates back all the way back to the original conflict, as evidenced by the dates in our signatures. Nothing new has been started by anyone else concerning the issue since its conclusion months ago, short of the newly-recreated revert war that's now going on at the Prince Zuko page. –Prototime (talk • contribs) 21:19, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

(Looks up) Ya, I think i said soemthing about the part that this wasnt posted about the Zuko's Age thing originally... And it was never ment to inply it. Proto, you are the one who truely brought that to this page. And H2P, I know about all the date stuff, and I read the dates to. I just dont do he 4 ~'s, because I dont want to. But I do see the dates. ~Sayasha

(Dubling, problably yes, but oh well) posted this, shortly after what I posted on your page, H2P. Mainly regarding the same area, as listed in your talk page. It was about nothing more then that. Never ment to be Zuko's age. ~Sayasha

Just the part, of a coment that was made to/about me, on one of the pages brings this up. I tell and change stuff, that doesn't go with the show, or info givin from the creators of Avatr. THe funny part comes, that I exsplain stuff over and over again, and still you question it. So please, someone tell me who put you 3 in charge. I'd love to know. ~Sayasha

The only thing that's "in charge" of anything is Wikipedia policy. That's going to get enforced, period. Somebody doesn’t like the rules, there are ways of changing them if the community wants to, but if something doesn’t fit those rules, I'll edit it. Mercilessly. That's just the way it works.--Fyre2387 16:35, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

I haven't been involved in this incident, but I must ask, Sayasha, why have you broken our compromise on Zuko's age? Did I not demonstrate to you why it is completely logical for his age to be 16 still? While I agree that you should not be flamed by anyone, I do not agree with your decision to re-start this revert war. Why are you doing this? –Prototime (talk • contribs) 18:01, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

ok, 1. Fyre, you arent one of the 3, so dont worry. 2. Proto, that was not the one I was bringing up. I believe, well, I know, it was on a different page. Just a respons that I got. And it has been delt with. But, since yo brought it up, quick question for you: Why did you have to open up a whole new page, saying that I had no show-info? When I even told the episodes that I got my info from. 3. As to why, well, come to my original topic first. It was only to a topic that was replied to, in a rude way. But as I said, it has been taken care of, by the person I had the problem with. ~Sayasha