Talk:MF Doom/GA1

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Reviewer:

• I don't see why his birthday requires the Twitter citation.
  • Agreed; removed. There was some confusion/controversy about this when it came out, which is why we added it. No longer necessary. AleatoryPonderings (???) (!!!) 22:25, 30 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
• "As a child, Dumile moved with his family to Long Island, New York. He grew up in Long Beach, New York" → As a child he grew up in Long Beach, New york, remaing a British citizen, never becoming an American citizen.
  • Reworked in slightly different terms. AleatoryPonderings (???) (!!!) 22:25, 30 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
• "the first of many pseudonyms,[17]" this is unnesscary as the reader will infer it themselves and it having a separate citation is an unnesscary obstruction of flow.
  • Agreed; removed. AleatoryPonderings (???) (!!!) 22:25, 30 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
• " Rodan. Rodan was later replaced by Onyx the Birthstone Kid → "Rodan; later replaced by Onyx the Birthstone Kid".
  • Reworked in slightly different terms. AleatoryPonderings (???) (!!!) 22:25, 30 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
• "In May 1991, Dumile and Onyx testified before the Senate Committee on Rules and Administration in support of a voter registration bill.[20]" - I'm thinking that this should be moved to the personal life considering it doesn't solely relate to Dumile's musical career and the advocation wasn't musically related.
  • Removed entirely. Came across this by accident and couldn't resist dropping it in, but it's really not important in either context. AleatoryPonderings (???) (!!!) 11:09, 1 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
• "Zev Love X completed the album alone..." - Should the pronoun be Dumile?
  • Changed. AleatoryPonderings (???) (!!!) 11:09, 1 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
• "His first recorded appearance under the MF Doom name would be on the 1997 mixtape Cuttin’ With Class by DJ S.T.R.E.S.S., which included an early version of the song "Dead Bent". - Although this section is uncited, the preceding NYTimes citation does mention "Dead Bent"–but not DJ S.T.R.E.S.S–I'd recommend implementing it here–unless you're familiar with another RS that provides the same info as the in-line text.
  • Can't verify this claim, so cut it. AleatoryPonderings (???) (!!!) 11:09, 1 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
• "(spelled "Ghidora" on the "Greenbacks" / "Go With the Flow" single[32] and "Ghidra" on Operation: Doomsday[33] and Escape from Monsta Island!)" - This seems trivial and is an obstruction of flow.
  • Trimmed to just mention and cite the alternate spellings. AleatoryPonderings (???) (!!!) 11:09, 1 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
• "Jon Caramanica, in a review of Operation: Doomsday for Spin, emphasized the contrast between Dumile's flow as Zev Love X in KMD and his revised approach as a solo artist: "Doom's flow is muddy, nowhere near the sprightly rhymes of KMD's early days, and his thought process is haphazard."[35]" - Worthwhile addition, but perhaps more fitting in S&A.
  • I'd like to keep this where it is, because it's a comment on the specific album that may not apply more generally. AleatoryPonderings (???) (!!!) 16:59, 1 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • Ok.
      talk) 17:35, 1 May 2021 (UTC)[reply
      ]
• "A review of Special Herbs volumes 5 and 6 in CMJ New Music Monthly compared Dumile's beats to "soul jazz".[40]" - See above.
  • Moved that down to the style section. AleatoryPonderings (???) (!!!) 16:59, 1 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
• "Geedorah is credited as producer, but only appears as an MC on two tracks.[43]" - Seems a bit too insular for this article–instead, it'd be better in the relevant article about the album, if not already implemented.
  • Removed; may add to the article on the album. AleatoryPonderings (???) (!!!) 16:59, 1 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
• "Martelli praised the album, particularly tracks such as "One Smart Nigger" which, in his view, were superior to other artists' attempts at political hip hop.[43]" - See above.
  • Would also like to keep this as is, since it refers specifically to Take Me to Your Leader and not necessarily to other work. AleatoryPonderings (???) (!!!) 18:40, 1 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
• The Pitchfork review for Vaudeville Villain should note that it is from 2003, letting the reader understand Dumile's reception at the time.
  • Clarified. AleatoryPonderings (???) (!!!) 18:40, 1 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
• "Madlib and Dumile met in 2002 at the Stones Throw Records headquarters in Los Angeles.[48]" - Seems a bit too insular for this article–instead, it'd be better in the relevant article about the album, if not already implemented.
  • Removed. AleatoryPonderings (???) (!!!) 18:40, 1 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
• A lukewarm review in Pitchfork emphasized the album's standard lyrical subject matter, but suggested that Dumile intended it to be "merely good or somewhat inconsequential" in order to demonstrate his ability on the mic and behind the boards.[52] Nathan Rabin described Mm..Food as a "crazy pastiche" but argued that it grew more coherent on repeated listening.[53]" given the nature of this article, it'd be perhaps more fitting to note that Pitchfork and The A.V. Club's reviews were lukewarm.
  • Trimmed this bit. Not clear to me that the AV Club review is lukewarm, per se, so I've retained a bit more of that description. AleatoryPonderings (???) (!!!) 18:40, 1 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
• "Patrin observed that Dumile's lyrics and flow—"a focused rasp that's subtly grown slightly more ragged and intense"—were darker in tone on Born Like This than in earlier records.[62]...Steve Yates, reviewing the album in The Guardian, likewise saw Born Like This as hearkening back to Dumile's earlier output.[63]" – Worthwhile addition, but as it deals with the album in the context of his discography, I think it makes more sense to be in S&A.
  • My response here is pretty much the same as above. In my view, the style and artistry section is a general overview of Dumile's output. I think commentary that refers specifically to a given album (as here) is best kept in the section on the album. Just my opinion, though. Pinging Popcornfud as a recent active contributor. PF, DMT and I have been discussing whether some of the critical commentary is best put in the sections on individual albums or in the "style and artistry" section (see above for some further examples). DMT thinks that a good amount of it should go in "style and artistry", while I'd rather keep more of it in individual album sections. What do you think? AleatoryPonderings (???) (!!!) 13:41, 2 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

    No strong opinion here - it seems fine to me in either section. It would fit in the style section, but it also works as running commentary on how each album fits compared to the last, etc. Popcornfud (talk) 13:56, 2 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

    Thanks, PF. DMT, I leave it to you. If you think this will stand in the way of GA status, I'll see if I can try and rework some of the album-specific commentary into the style and artistry section. Otherwise, it seems like it would work in both places. AleatoryPonderings (???) (!!!) 14:38, 2 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

    I'm satisfied with your and PF's rationale - it's fine as is.

    talk) 15:35, 2 May 2021 (UTC)[reply

    ]

• Considering a quote right above notes Dumile's enigmatic style, I think: "Upon his death, Variety called Dumile "one of the most celebrated, unpredictable and enigmatic figures in independent hip-hop" should be changed – "Upon his death, Variety noted Dumile's reverence in the independent hip-hop scene".
• his lyrical style had a large influence on his contemporaries and a younger generation of rappers—an influence on the latter described by Stereogum as "formative". — as both sentences convey, more or less, the same info, best to just mush them together, so to speak.
  • Tried to address the two comments above in this edit. AleatoryPonderings (???) (!!!) 17:42, 2 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • This a good consolidation - I'd only say that it might be worthwhile including that Baker (2020) mentions that he is one of the "most celebrated figures in independent hip-hop", phrasing per your discretion.
      • How's this? AleatoryPonderings (???) (!!!) 17:53, 2 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Source Review & Spotchecks

What makes the following reliable sources?

• [20] - Rap Worlds
  • Agreed, unreliable.
    Vulture. AleatoryPonderings (???) (!!!) 17:03, 2 May 2021 (UTC)[reply
    ]
• [29] - Passion of the Weiss
• [30] - Hip-Hop Wired
  • Deleted refs 29 and 30 with this edit. The early single stuff seems to be mostly fan lore/only verifiable on Discogs. AleatoryPonderings (???) (!!!) 17:10, 2 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
• [71] - Frank151
  • Removed. AleatoryPonderings (???) (!!!) 17:19, 2 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
• [88] - Mxdwn
  • Replaced with Exclaim! and Pitchfork.
• [112] - The Thinkera
  • Replaced with Billboard.
• [121] - CtrlNow
  • Replaced with The New York Times.

Spotchecks

All the examples checked accurately represented their in-line text.

Note

That should be all my comments - resolve the outstanding qualms and the article will pass.

DMT biscuit, Think I've hit all your comments above; let me know if there are any further issues to address. Thanks so much for your review! AleatoryPonderings (???) (!!!) 17:42, 2 May 2021 (UTC)[reply

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talk) 17:48, 2 May 2021 (UTC)[reply

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