Talk:Pointe technique

Dance: Ballet

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Please try to spell words correctly. Firefox has a feature which allows to check spelling while editing a page (English language pack). I am sure something similar exists for IE as well. For the style, please remember Wikipedia is an encyclopedia. Therefore the use of a more general and formal tone is advised (ie avoid writing "my brother says..." or "I use gel pads..."). Thanks! Gioland71 (talk) 20:54, 15 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The article contains a lot of jargon that is not defined for the non-dancer trying to learn a bit about the art. (i.e. center combinations -- I can look this up elsewhere on the web, but it would be nice to see a link if not a definition). 198.53.208.74 (talk) 03:11, 1 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Just wondered if we should insert a section on male dancers who could dance en pointe, especially as it was once considered a rare talent for males (such as Njinsky). JF Mephisto 12:34, 24 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It's very uncommon for male dancer to dance en pointe and I think it would be misleading to the article.

It's uncommon, but important to the history of ballet. I think a section could be added, as long as it is made clear that it is uncommon. —

^(speak) 21:54, 7 November 2006 (UTC)[reply

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I think it's a good idea. As long as the point is made clear that it's VERY rare that a guy goes en pointe. TheBallerinaDoll 16:14, 8 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Rare? There are roles in classical ballet where man are required to go en pointe. Unfortunately, the most performed ballet - the Nutcracker - does not have any role for men. I read an interview with Edouard Lock (choreographer of the ballet Amelia) where he complains that the reason only women are dancing en pointe in Amelia is that he could find only one man trained for it in his troupe... (indeed in the live ballet I remember there is a man dancing en pointe). Gioland71 12:42, 22 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It's not rare at all, especially today with all the drag ballet companies. Les Ballets Trockadero de Monte Carlo is probably the most famous. And I think I've read somewhere that Balanchine recommended his male dancers have a little experience dancing en pointe so they'd have better understanding of how to partner a female dancer. CerealBabyMilk 20:01, 23 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Rare? No. Uncommon? Maybe. Common? No. Perhaps the expression should be, "not uncommon." This even ignoring the Trock' and Les Ballets Grandiva: there are major ballets with (usually comic) male pointe roles, and a "Male pointe roles" section toward the end of the article — with or without reference to the drag ballet companies — would be fully justified. Robert Greer (talk) 15:41, 2 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I think this article should be split into sections, but I'm not sure what to call them or how to go about it. Also, wouldn't it be more helpful to have a photo of a ballerina en pointe, rather than a photo of a pointe shoe (better suited for the article on

I have uploaded a close-up of a dancer en-pointe; however, because I was both trying to get my foot in the picture and take the picture, it's only of one foot/shoe (not full-body or both feet). This photo is up for grabs for use in this article if it would be useful.Splowey 18:23, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Is that really a pointe shoe? Its toe looks too soft to be a pointe shoe, so if it isn't a pointe shoe in the picture, then it shouldn't be used in this article because it would be misleading. RandomGoldfish (talk) 19:12, 4 July 2010 (UTC) RandomGoldfish 20:13, 4 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Is that really a pointe shoe? Its toe looks too soft to be a pointe shoe. So if it isn't really a pointe shoe, then it shouldn't be used in this article, because it would be misleading. RandomGoldfish (talk) 19:14, 4 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

That's a pointe shoe, as far as I can tell 74.12.103.217 (talk) 20:11, 26 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Irish Dancing involves going on toes as well.

The term "en pointe" refers to pointe dancing in ballet, however; there is a different term for it when it regards step/Irish/celtic dancing. —

I, for one, contest the merge. Pointe shoes are an entirely different subject from the technique. Volumes can be, and have been, written on each subject. I've personally found that there's more out there on the shoes. Heh. If there's been discussion on this anywhere else, could somebody point me there? If not and provided no further discussion, I'll remove the tags myself in a few days. --Keitei (talk) 17:25, 19 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

OK. I quite agree with you that these are subjects that can well each have an article of their own. The reason I added the merge tags is that the articles as of now have quite some overlap - the shoe article talks about the technique and vice versa. If this can be remedied, I have no objections to removing the merge tag. Sandstein 05:11, 20 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Points taken. Any better now? --Keitei (talk) 17:37, 20 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Yep. Thanks for the good work! I've removed the tags. Sandstein 17:42, 20 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I've never heard of anyone ever claiming pointe wasn't painful. Is there a citation for this? --Keitei (talk) 20:19, 26 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Umm... personal experience (15 years) has told me this, but citations can be found. Yes, it does hurt sometimes; yes, it does sometimes hurt rediculously much; but it shouldn't hurt a lot all of the time. There will always be some discomfort involved -- after all, the human foot was not meant to be stood upon by the toes. However, with properly fitted shoes, padding, and muscular support it shouldn't hurt. Pain and discomfort are very different. —

^(speak) 21:52, 7 November 2006 (UTC)[reply

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It shouldn't be said that pointe never hurts, because it does sometimes. Maybe after 15 years it doesn't so much anymore, but at first it does for sure. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.1.58.98 (talk) 02:17, 1 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I also think there should be more things saying the less great sides of pointe(if you know what I mean). It shouldn't just be all positives it sends the wrong message-like that its easy to do pointe and anyone can do it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.218.121.21 (talk) 04:56, 21 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Most of this section doesn't seem accurate. It is not unheard of for even a beginning student to wear only tape, or nothing at all, and similarly, professionials often do use gel pads (at least in NYCB, as that is the only company I have seen firsthand, but I would expect they are not alone.) With the use of new technology, gel padding has become much thinner and therefore easier to work with, although in the past it may not have been so good. At all levels of ballet, it is necessary to not use so much padding that the dancer can not feel the floor through it. It is at least as important for students as for professionals, so any differences in padding for an individual would be the result only of tougher feet, not a greater need for sensitivity. Any comments on this before it gets changed? puppies_fly

Wholly agree, but I've found it common among my ballet teachers to use minimal amounts of lambs wool and/or paper towels =\ as padding as a matter of course, not of choice. Perhaps it should be mentioned that toepads are just coming into acceptance (some of my ballet teachers wouldn't allow them)? --Keitei (talk) 18:47, 27 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

This list was spun out from this article, so I don't see why it should be merged back in. I still haven't completed it >_> but I can try and get around to that this week. Anyone else want to help? :] --Keitei (talk) 21:40, 8 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I'm unclear as to why pointe-related injuries needs it's own page. It's a list, has limited expansion potential, and might be better served by being merged with the main pointe article. Ckessler 05:11, 12 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Could it be made into "List of..."? Right now it just looks like a list, but providing summaries would make it a definition list (also not good). But all of those terms definitely don't need to be in this main article do they? Hazelorb 07:41, 10 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that Pointe-related injuries should be included in the article on (en!) pointe. I also feel that male Pointe dancers should be included in this article. It is ALL "searchable" and anyone looking will find it here. I do not believe either subject needs its own article. ([user:CJSulesky|CJSulesky]) —The preceding

unsigned comment was added by 71.233.32.177 (talk) 16:17, 6 April 2007 (UTC).[reply

]

I agree with the merge. There's not enough information for Pointe-related injuries to be it's own article. It makes perfect sense to merge it with the en pointe article. TheBallerinaDoll 16:17, 8 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Though this is late - do you think this injury content might fit better in

Risks of classical ballet, a page I just happened upon now? - AKeen 04:37, 13 October 2007 (UTC)[reply

]

Can anybody confirm what 70.113.110.240 says about the neoclassical style? I corrected the writing style, but I cannot judge the contents as I only ever danced in the Vaganova's pointe technique. Thanks! Gioland71 (talk) 14:08, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It does not seem appropriate to give brand names of products on a encyclopedia page. If I do not get any feedback on this issue, I will change the section to eliminate any references to brand names or commercial web sites. Gioland71 (talk) 16:44, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

To the persons who keep changing the age at which girls go on pointe: I understand you mean well, and it is quite true that it is unethical to allow very young girls on pointe, but in some cases, in some schools, and in my everyday observation, it happens all the time that little girls buy their first pair of pointe shoes at age 9. I hope that using a reference/note style will avoid an editing war. Gioland71 (talk) 17:27, 7 July 2008 (UTC) Children as younge as nine should not be doing pointe. It could possibly really hurt them. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.218.121.21 (talk) 04:59, 21 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, young girls should not dance on pointe. But who are you to stop their teachers???? It happens everywhere, especially in countries where starting early gives an enormous advantage on their peers (oh yeah, look on youtube the wee ones dancing on pointe at age 6). Few girls are ready a bit earlier, many will never be ready. This articles should state the facts, not a wish. The message should be clear that only girls, not matter how old, who are supervised should be allowed to start pointe work; then it is up up their teachers and parents. Gioland71 (talk) 17:27, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, as a non-dancer reading this article, I can see four different spots where there is conflicting information/ages, and it seems to be a super-polarizing dance politics issue. Not really objectively addressed here. 198.53.208.74 (talk) 03:09, 1 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I do not really mind people re-writing the article and improving the sections... But not if the reference to the Vaganova technique actually points to the Cecchetti book!!! 173.206.231.43 (talk) 02:38, 18 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

That is because Mme Vaganova in her book states she subscribes entirely to the method introduced by E. Cecchetti (it's the first thing she writes in the chapter dedicated to pointe work). This is why the original reference was to Vaganova's book! 128.100.227.37 (talk) 17:11, 5 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

How about a section on history here? I'm curious when this practice started, who was the innovator who developed it, etc. As is the article has a huge list of injuries from dancing en pointe and it's probably too much detail for this article (i.e. the article is about en pointe, the article is not about injuries you can get dancing en pointe). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.26.173.210 (talk) 15:08, 30 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Proposal: Move this article from "En pointe" to "Pointe technique".

Reason: This article is about pointe technique -- what it is, how it's learned, its health risks, etc. The article is not about "En point", which is merely an adjective that describes how a dancer supports body weight when pointe technique is applied.

Lambtron (talk) 02:34, 9 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Seems sensible and no objections, so I moved it. Lambtron (talk) 03:02, 13 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]