Talk:Rated R (Rihanna album)/GA2

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Reviewer: SNUGGUMS (talk · contribs) 02:46, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]


Taking up this nomination for review. It'll start with an assessment of the infobox and lead.

Hey Snuggums! Thanks for taking this up! I am excited :)) — Tom(T2ME) 09:14, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Infobox

  • File:Rihanna - Rated R.png has an appropriate FUR
  • It doesn't seem appropriate to link to sections as this does with "see recording locations". Either way, we're better off listing them by name.
  • What is the point of having two album chronologies? Just the overall one is sufficient if anything.
  • Done. Removed the additional chronology. — Tom(T2ME) 09:14, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Lead

  • When mentioning the month that recording began, we may as well also add the one where it concluded
  • We are not sure when the recording process ended. — Tom(T2ME) 09:14, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Then why does the infobox say "April – October 2009"? That's what I was basing this off of. SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 02:44, 14 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Several" from "several recording studios" is an understatement
  • No mention of overall genres for the album? Elements incorporated aren't the same thing.
  • "Hits" from "international hits" is subpar tone
  • 2011 should be written out in full for her tour (four digits are overall preferred for years as more complete and formal than only two)
  • "became the only single from the album that topped the US Billboard Hot 100 chart for five consecutive weeks" should be revised to clarify whether it was the only one to reach number one or the only one to spend that much time at this spot

More to come in the future! SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 02:46, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Background

  • The file source for File:JustinTimberlakeJune07 crop.jpg links to a different image entirely. Let's fix that link or get another image entirely.
  • Per WP:REPCITE, you don't need to use a citation more than once in a row within a paragraph. In other words, ref#3 only needs to be placed after "he considered the idea unnecessary", and just use ref#7 after "Timberlake explained" following his "I think that the smartest thing she's doing is not trying to emulate what she did but move forward" quote.
  • See previous comments on "hits"
  • I'd specify how Chris Brown hit her in February 2009 to show that the incident was still relatively recent when she made and distributed this record (at least compared to today)
  • "with Marc Malkin" seems like excess detail; the more pertinent point is Ne-You calling Rih "edgier" and "angrier"
  • I don't see any support for "menacing" here, only "liberated" and "edgy"
  • "didn't want an angry Rihanna"..... avoid contractions unless part of a quote or title per WP:CONTRACTIONS
  • "make sure that she didn't fall into one sound or vibe"..... same as before
  • The given ref doesn't use "uptempo and edgy" as a continuous quote as the article text currently suggests, plus that bit is only about one track instead of the whole album
  • I can't seem to find "I really like the bottom, the grime of it. But if I were to combine that with more energetic, up-tempo pop records, then I think that would be a happy marriage. And that's where we'll probably go next" anywhere here :/
  • "she doesn't have one"..... again, WP:CONTRACTIONS, and I couldn't find any mention of Rih's favorite tracks (or lack thereof) for this album

This will most likely be done section-by-section. SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 02:44, 14 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I think I resolved all of the issues, but feel free to double-check. :) — Tom(T2ME) 13:52, 14 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
It's better now, and I'll assume good faith that File:Justin Timberlake Cannes 2013.jpg is the uploader's own work when there's no evidence to suggest otherwise. One other thing I forgot to mention is that details on Good Girl Gone Bad singles (found within this section's first paragraph) are better for that album's article as we should keep the focus more on this record.

Recording

  • Unfortunately, there is not better photo. :/
  • All I see here is Milk Studios, so you'll need another citation for the other recording locations (I'll allow album booklet if nothing else is available).
  • Believe it or not, Chuck Harmony isn't mentioned in any of the five references listed for songwriter/producer involvement, though it shouldn't be a problem to stick this into the section.
  • It looks like recording actually began in February or March of 2009 (unless its "has gone back to the studio for work on her next album" bit refers to the songwriting process). Either way, I can't find anything on brainstorming ideas.
  • Well, the source is from early March, so I think she started recording/writing that month. — Tom(T2ME) 09:24, 16 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • In that case, I'd say so in the section's first sentence instead of using April there. SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 14:41, 16 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "he felt that Rihanna wasn't the same girl"..... more WP:CONTRACTIONS
  • Single counts seem better for the "Singles" section; focus more on writing/production process of tracks here
  • Can you please be more specific? — Tom(T2ME) 09:24, 16 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • What I mean is that you don't need to say how "Russian Roulette" the album's lead single within this section or how "Rude Boy" was its fourth. Such details are better discussed within the "singles" section. SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 14:39, 16 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Unless I'm missing something, "Rihanna responded positively to the darker style and lyrical content, wishing to replicate the style throughout the entire album" doesn't appear to be supported by the given source.
  • Within the third paragraph, ref#26 only needs to be used at the end of "a few weeks in an undisclosed location" per WP:REPCITE
  • I see no mention of dubstep. What it does mention is "big beats and big bass".
  • If the October 2009 sessions with The-Dream and Tricky Stewart were the final recordings for this album, then I'd specify so.
  • No mention of Paris, only "Hard" and "Rockstar 101", though I did find that location in this.
  • I think the rest of them were done too. — Tom(T2ME) 09:24, 16 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

"Music and lyrics" will be up next. SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 03:46, 15 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Music and lyrics

  • As far as I can tell, File:Rihanna - Russian Roulette.ogg meets WP:SAMPLE
  • I've looked through Slant and can't seem to find anything in it supporting the description of a "raw" tone :/
  • "Several" from "several music writers" is an ambigious term that's best avoided if you can provide specifics

Overall, not much wrong with this section :). SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 05:04, 18 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Done. :) — Tom(T2ME) 09:55, 18 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Artwork and fashion

  • More WP:REPCITE; ref#50 only needs to be cited at the end of this section's first paragraph, and you only have to use ref#52 when ending the second paragraph's last sentence
  • Cited when a direct quote was involved and at the end of the paragraphs. — Tom(T2ME) 21:14, 19 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Even when archived, ref#51 isn't giving me anything :/
  • Unfortunately, it seems that the site is very dead :/. Removed the reference. — Tom(T2ME) 21:14, 19 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • No mention of "Everything comes from the music, and this is her most personal album to date—so everything draws from it in one way or another" within MuuMuse

"Release and promotion" to follow in the future. SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 03:49, 19 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Release and promotion

  • The "Wait is Ova" tweet actually was posted on October 13, 2009 (also see here), not the 15th. This means "The following day" for filming the "Wait Your Turn" music video will also need to be fixed accordingly.
  • It's probably best to spell out "promotional" in full instead of using "promo"
  • No countdown is discussed
  • No licensing concerns with File:Rihanna in Last Girl on Earth Tour 16-04-6.jpg. The only thing I would change for it is adding "tour" to the end of the caption as it otherwise looks incomplete (even though that's not part of the tour's name).
  • Per WP:REPCITE, ref#57 doesn't need to be placed right at the end of "held on November 16, 2009, in the United Kingdom" when it's already found after the next two sentences.
  • Gigwise is a subpar publication, and even if it was trustworthy, the given link doesn't talk about free ticket distribution
  • I feel the original November 20, 2009 release this had in Australia, France, and Germany is worth mentioning here in addition to the November 23rd one. Last I checked, it's standard practice to use earliest known releases in prose as well as infoboxes, regardless of what nation(s) that took place in.
  • For the "Pepsi Super Bowl Fan Jam", I'd include the songs Ms. Fenty performed (at least the ones from this album)
  • No specific track names are given for the Kids' Choice Awards performance. Either remove those titles or implement something that does mention them.
  • "(2010—11)" should be "(2010–2011)" per WP:DASH and my previous comments on four digits for years
  • Though I could only find North Amercian tour dates within Rap-Up, I did come across something usable you can insert that mentions 2011 dates as well as other continents
  • Details on opening acts are better for the tour article
  • I don't believe DJ Chew being from New York is particularly relevant here

Have at it! SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 00:41, 20 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • I believe, I did all of the queries for this section. :) Thanks for the source about the tour! — Tom(T2ME) 14:23, 20 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • You're quite welcome (it admittedly took some digging to find), and now I'd just get rid of the "(2010–2011)" as it's redundant when you already mention specific start and end dates for the tour. SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 02:29, 21 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Singles

  • This doesn't give any indication of overall reception from critics, and one review on its own is not enough to substantiate such a claim. Also, that page is used in both ref#73 and ref#74.
  • The bit on "Russian Roulette" reaching "the top-ten in over 25 countries" needs its own citation if included. Trying to use another Wikipedia article as a reference for claims goes against WP:CIRCULAR.
  • Not sure why an R&B component chart for the UK is linked it's nowehere near as important as the main songs chart of the nation to demonstrate reaching number two (which you've linked).
  • Again, a singular review alone cannot be used to demonstrate overall assessments from critics, and the one you've inserted doesn't even mention Jeezy.
  • File:Rihanna - Wait Your Turn.ogg appears to comply with WP:SAMPLE
  • When talking about United Kingdom charts, I'd focus on its main UK Singles Chart because it's what represents overall popularity within the nation
  • For ref#86, its archive redirects me to generic iTunes page, and the unarchived version gives no song information either :/
  • Ugh, iTunes. All of the links are dead and now we don't have release dates for a bunch of singles. I found one MTV News source about its release. I hope it's fine for you until we find a more permanent one. — Tom(T2ME) 20:31, 21 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Digital Spy doesn't even mention "Rude Boy"
  • You'll need separate citations for Australian and UK peaks for "Rude Boy"
  • When talking about how Rih tied with Paula Abdul and Diana Ross for fifth-most number ones in the US (at the time), it's worth noting how this was her sixth to top the country's chart. Also, you'll need another ref to support the lead's claim of this track holding the summit for five weeks.
  • The link given for Hot Dance Club Songs chart just gives me peaks for Billboard Hot 100, which is far more important for America. The ARIA charts for Australia are also more pertinent than any component charts.
  • Ref#95 has the same link as ref#96, and doesn't mention any director for the "Rockstar 101" video.
  • "overall" from "the sixth and final overall single" seems redundant
  • "airplay in Canada on June 7, 2010" should end with a period, not a comma, though I couldn't find anything on "Te Amo" here.
  • Once more, a singular review isn't sufficient evidence for a song's overall favorable/mixed/unfavorable reception, especially when it doesn't talk about other reviews at all
  • The European peaks for "Te Amo" will need their own references. Don't use WP:CIRCULAR sourcing here.

This will need some work, but I'm sure you can patch it up. SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 02:29, 21 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I think I did them all (huh, it was a bit of tiring haha). PS. I am going on a short vacation for 4 days. I will probably not be able to be as active until Sunday. So I would like for you to give me some time. :) Thank yooouuu — Tom(T2ME) 20:31, 21 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Not a problem. I'll continue the review by assessing "Critical reception" on July 26th 28th. The "singles" section in the meantime definitely looks better now. SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 21:01, 21 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Critical reception

  • There seems to be duplicate MetaCritic citations. Let's merge them into one.
  • No score ratings from critics (except for Robert Christgau) outside of review box? It looks incomplete without these in prose.
  • Maybe I missed something, but I couldn't find any rating from Spin
  • You were right, there isn't rating in the source. Removed it from the box. Unfortunately, I couldn't find a 10th review with a rating to add it in the box. — Tom(T2ME) 20:30, 28 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Getting closer to completion. Thankfully there isn't much fault within the section. SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 20:07, 28 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Commercial performance

  • The use of "debuted" throughout this section feels somewhat monotonous. Try using synonyms like "entered" and "opened" to give the prose some variety.
  • No mention of chart stats, which AllMusic unfortunately has stopped providing outside of prose for biographies/reviews :/
  • That link doesn't support the "fourth top ten album in the country and her second highest album chart position" bit or give chart listings. SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 15:42, 6 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • While the given link for Top R&B/Hip Hop Albums is dead, I found its new URL
  • "and sold over 1,130,000 copies in the US as of June 2015"..... either add a "has" before "sold" or change "as of June 2015" into "by June 2015"
  • "number five on the albums chart" sounds incomplete, just say Canadian Albums Chart. If the intent was to not reuse "Canada" or include its varations after first mentioning that nation, then you can revise it to something like what you have for Norway and Germany.
  • "number sixteen on the albums chart"..... likewise, UK Albums Chart should be mentioned by name, and this debut will need a separate citation
  • The use of "despite" from "Despite debuting at number fifteen in Australia, the album was certified gold its second week" gives a false impression that albums have to get a certain chart position before they're eligible for certifications. Also, I don't see any mentions of this album or even Riri here.
  • I'm just getting a blank page for IFPI Norway
  • Very weird, it works perfectly for me. — Tom(T2ME) 12:40, 6 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Maybe it was a poor connection issue beforehand, because now it shows up for me without a problem SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 15:42, 6 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Looks incomplete without any mentions of Austria, Belgium, the Czech Republic, Croatia, Denmark, the Netherlands, Finland, France, Greece, Hungary, Ireland, Italy, Japan, Mexico, Russia, Scotland (yes it has a separate chart from the UK), Spain, or Sweden
  • Mentioned 6 other charts. — Tom(T2ME) 12:40, 6 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Once I get through "Legacy" later on, the rest should be a breeze in comparison. SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 03:40, 1 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

SNUGGUMS Thanks for the section review! I am taking a small vacation (again) for 3 days! I will be taking my lap top with me, however, I don't know how much time I will have to be on Wiki. So, I will probably resolve all of this on Monday night. Feel free to review 'Legacy' as well. I can do both when I am back. — Tom(T2ME) 05:54, 1 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Very well. I'll have that up later. SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 12:38, 1 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
SNUGGUMS I think I resolved the rest of them. — Tom(T2ME) 12:40, 6 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Definitely looking better. You do however still need to fix the AllMusic piece per what I wrote above. Also, the France ref hasn't been defined (creating an error), and I can't seem to access the Greek albums link. SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 15:42, 6 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I think I fixed the other issues. Unfortunately, the reference for Greece was permanently dead, a I had to remove it. — Tom(T2ME) 09:14, 7 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Legacy

  • Though I can see why File:JanetJacksonUnbreakableTourSanFran2015 (cropped).jpg was used (and I'll assume good faith that this is the original uploader's own work as claimed), its inclusion here feels more decorative than anything else when Janet wasn't involved in the album's production or anything
  • The parental advisory bit is superfluous, even if darker and more profane than prior albums
  • Sorry, but I beg to differ here. It is important to highlight how this album is the moment when she embraced the IDGAF attitude through lyrics. Even on GGGB, her label still seemed to censor her. — Tom(T2ME) 11:29, 5 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

There's that. I'll let you get through this and the above section before going further. SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 03:15, 2 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Done all of the rest. Will get to Commercial performance soon. — Tom(T2ME) 11:29, 5 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Track listing

  • The standard edition needs to be cited just like the bonus versions are. I'll allow the use of album liner notes here.

Notes

  • "Co-producer" seems redundant when the "co-" prefix indicates multiple people produced something. Same goes for "additional producer".
  • That's per the album booklet. I think that co-producer is someone who produced the song, but was less involved in the process. Same with the additional producer. That's according to the credits in the album. — Tom(T2ME) 20:48, 9 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Personnel

  • Having text appear smaller than it naturally would is frowned upon per MOS:FONTSIZE. Doing that needlessly makes it harder on the eyes to read.

Charts

Weekly charts

  • "10" from "2009–10" should be written out in full (i.e. 2010)
  • It doesn't look like you linked to the right URL for Hungary. Thankfully I found that after some digging to get the 31 peak after it started at number 39.
  • Mexico gives me an error
  • I don't get anything for Russia either, even when archived
  • You can use the new URL I gave for Top R&B/Hip-Hop albums to fix the expired/ouddated one here

Year-end charts

  • It seems they have an issue with the site. Removed it. — Tom(T2ME) 20:50, 9 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

My next batch of comments will hopefully be the last. Almost done! SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 02:01, 8 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Yay! =) We are getting close! — Tom(T2ME) 20:50, 9 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Certifications

  • It doesn't look like the album was certified in France (at least at the time of this writing)
  • You've got incorrect URLs for Irish and Polish certifications, though I thankfully found the right ones
  • Russia gives nothing usable. Unless the link can be fixed/replaced, I'd remove it.
  • I'm guessing you meant to use this 2015 for US sales as opposed to a 2013 piece
  • Fixed them all. Removed Russia. — Tom(T2ME) 09:03, 10 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Release history

  • From what I can tell, there's no mention of Vinyl distribution for any of the cited nations or anything from 2017, only 2009 releases. In fact, the only post-2012 release date properly cited is one from 2012. You'll have to either find new references for Vinyl dates or remove them altogether.
  • The vinyl is there, in the Amazon CD reference. You just need to click on the Vinyl part and it shows it with its 2017 date. — Tom(T2ME) 08:23, 10 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • My bad; just found those now. That just leaves Australia needing a new link for Vinyl release (unless I missed something) as I still can't locate it within anywhere this. Either way, Radio & Records should have italics in the references. Just get those things done and we're set. SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 15:55, 10 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

See also

  • No issues!

References

  • Well, if you actually see the web tab, that's the full title used for the page. — Tom(T2ME) 09:03, 10 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Overall

  • Prose: Mostly good. Since we can't seem to pinpoint an exact range for when in 2009 the album finished recording, I'd just use that year within the infobox. In the lead, we may as well mention all six singles by name, regardless of how they charted.
  • Referencing: Some reference formatting needs to be fixed, and not quite all of the content is properly cited
  • Coverage: The major aspects appear to be addressed without excess detail
  • Neutrality: No bias detected
  • Stability: All recent changes have been to improve the article based on input
  • Media: As far as I'm concerned, everything is appropriately licensed
  • Verdict: Placing the nomination on hold for seven days beginning now. If all of my remaining concerns are addressed within that time (and my instinct says they probably will be), then I happily shall pass. SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 05:33, 10 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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