Talk:Rave
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Geographic origin of the Rave genre
I'm reverting the changes made in
PeakerPan (talk) 00:30, 16 February 2022 (UTC)
]
- @PeakerPan (talk) 01:12, 16 February 2022 (UTC)]
- @PeakerPan (talk) 01:45, 16 February 2022 (UTC)]
- @
- @ PeakerPan: I consider that if the music section says that Rave Music can be any EDM played at a rave, BUT there was once a genre that was called Rave in the early 90's (UK Breakbeat Hardcore), it's very biased not to include Belgian "Rave Techno" also as a genre that was called like that during the same era (that is a fact). I understand that you don't want to associate the term Rave to a genre or style of EDM, but you are already doing this exception, that i think it's logical and historically accurate, but by the same criteria the Belgian "Rave Techno" style must be included.
- @
- As stated by diferent sources, the Hardcore Techno sound that emerged in belgium after New Beat was the pioneer in the use of riff stabs and the use of the sounds like the Hoover and other iconic sounds associated to the "Rave sound" during these years. In fact, the Mentasm sound came from Joey Beltram from Brooklyn, when he signed with belgian producers (decission that wasn't a coincidence, because as Joey Beltram itself states in TSOB documentary, he was trying to emulate New Beat and Belgian EDM sounds). Early acts that adopted this riff stabs style was Quadropohonia, L.A. Style, Channel X, and Fierce Ruling Diva, in the year 1990, before this reached the UK (all this can be traced just checking in music databases like discogs, that are pretty exhaustive and accurate).
- It was after this contribution, that the UK scene sampled many of this stabs and added it to the breakbeat hardcore they were doing. This is something that you can check in unbiased data in discogs, and most of the UK records that started using those sounds are from 1991 and onwards. And because of that, both genres shared a lot of sounds, but being partially different scenes, different countries and styles. And is to this kind of sounds that both are associated as "Rave" music.
- Why not lump the belgian sound under the "Oldskool Rave" or "Breakbeat Hardcore" umbrella? Well, because it isn't breaks, it hasnt any. It has a 4/4 rhythm. That's why it is "Hardcore Techno" or "Rave Techno", as it was called in many compilations at the time (check discogs, there is a link below).
- Sources:
- https://www.vice.com/en/article/ez7b4n/the-untold-story-of-joey-beltram-the-techno-titan-behind-the-90s-most-iconic-rave-anthems
- https://www.toucanmusic.com/articles/ukhardcore/ (Netlabel)
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joey_Beltram
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_beat
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sound_of_Belgium (might be romantic, but it's not biased in terms of facts or timeline).
- https://rateyourmusic.com/list/TheScientist/rym-ultimate-box-set-belgian-techno/
- https://music.ishkur.com/ (Rave section)
- https://standrewsradio.com/belgian-house-the-unsung-hero-of-european-rave-culture/]https://www.electronicbeats.net/a-lesson-on-belgian-new-beat-history-with-peter-van-hoesen/
- https://daily.redbullmusicacademy.com/2018/01/new-beat-feature
- https://www.discogs.com/es/lists/Rave-Techno-Compilations-Early-Hardcore-Techno-from-90-to-93/950572 (to show there's a lot of evidence that the belgian contribution is relevant, the main acts and artists appears in almost all the records that has the terms "Techno" and "Rave", you can check for yourselves using the filters in the database for the years 1990-1993)
- To say that some style of music was called "Rave" during the early 90's, and that it considered both the UK and the Belgian sound, isn't saying that raves are restricted to those two styles . It's just what happened at that time, people called that "Rave music" (in fact the article says that now, but just focusing in the UK).
- So, i consider that this must be included at the "Music" section at least in some way. If you disagree to atribute the origins to the belgians (even when the UK sampled the belgians) is something that can be discussed, but totally erasing them from the history of the "Rave" term... that is very very biased. I can agree that this sound isn't very sophisticated and can be cheesey, but that isn't an objective criteria for excluding it.
- I know your are trying to have an unbiased article and are discussing this inclussion in good faith, and that's why i'm backing up my claim to include the belgians in some way.
References
Wiki Education assignment: Research, Writing, and the Production of Knowledge
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 13 June 2022 and 6 August 2022. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Johannaort29 (article contribs).
— Assignment last updated by Johannaort29 (talk) 06:31, 31 July 2022 (UTC)
Rave
Early nineties, I raved across the south of England in the late eighties. Staring 1987 ✌️ maybe needs an edit 94.173.17.182 (talk) 19:46, 1 September 2023 (UTC)
Hanger 13
Hanger 13 link goes to the wrong place. 84.68.214.241 (talk) 11:31, 28 October 2023 (UTC)
- Now fixed to Ayr Pavilion. ResonantDistortion 11:55, 28 October 2023 (UTC)