Talk:Teleost/Archive 1

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Behavior section

Added a section on mating and parental care behavior, with an emphasis on the evolution of parental care and relatively high occurrence of male parental care in teleosts. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wenamy (talk • contribs) 02:51, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

Redirect

Teleosts are by far the largest group in Actinopterygii and have some unique adaptations that are of particular interest; therefore I was

bold and made this redirect into an article. --Ginkgo100 ^{talk · contribs}

00:08, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

First appeared in the Triassic, not Jurassic

The Marshall Illustrated Encyclopedia of Dinosaurs & Prehistoric Animals lists two Triassic teleosts, Pholidophorus and Leptolepis, so I changed 'Jurassic' to 'Triassic'. Jerkov 20:13, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

Thank you. Since you have a copy of the book, can you please add the reference? The template {{cite book}} will be helpful. --Ginkgo100 ^{talk · contribs} 20:40, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

Teleost rule?

"On the basis of biomass as well as of species count, teleosts are the typical vertebrates, and all other vertebrates are exceptions to the teleost rule." What does this sentence mean anyway? Can someone clarify it and back it up with more evidence? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 138.16.64.11 (talk) 03:06, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

I think the biomass part means that if you gathered up all the teleosts alive in the world today and weighed them against all the other vertebrate animal groups alive today, the teleosts would outweigh the next nearest contender. The species count claim means that there are more living species of teleost than there are of mammals, of birds, of reptiles, of amphibians, or of other types of fish. --arkuat (talk) 11:14, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

10,000 missing species?

According to the Actinopterygii article there are 30,000 species of ray-finned fishes, but this article claims only 20,000 for the Teleostei. Given that there only seem to be about 60 species in the Chondrostei and Holostei, there seems to be a large discrepancy here. --Graminophile (talk) 09:31, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

The Actinopterygii consist of Polypteriformes, Acipenseriformes, Lepisosteiformes, Amiiformes and Teleostei. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.102.246.128 (talk) 21:15, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

in simple terms

Does anyone find this article a bit jargon-laden? What distinguishes telostei from the other two "infraclasses"? Neopterygii are mentioned in the sidebar, but aren't in the text proper

"Nearly all living bony fishes are teleosts." according to the Actinopterygii article -- shouldn't that be here also?

"Systematics" -- is this term defined? Feldercarb (talk) 20:42, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

is there a particular reason the superorders are not in alphabetical order? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Feldercarb (talk • contribs) 20:47, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

Lead image

The lead image shows 4 fishes, of which 3 are in the Perciformes. It is an attractively colourful painting, but it fails to represent the diversity of the teleosts. Perhaps we could have an eel, a catfish, a pike, an opah and an anglerfish to represent the teleosts rather better. Chiswick Chap (talk) 15:09, 1 January 2016 (UTC)

Expansion

There is an expansion going on with this article, which is a good idea as it is certainly overdue. However, what is happening so far seems to me a bit confused. I would have thought the teleost article should be focused quite sharply on what it is that makes teleosts stand out compared to other fish groups. Instead it seems heading in the direction of cobbling together all sorts of bobs and tails from other articles that apply quite generally to fish. If that is going to happen for teleosts, then for consistency the same should happen for Percomorphi, Sarcopterygii, Elasmobranchii, and so on. The articles will be endlessly duplicating material and obscuring the key points that distinguish the different taxa. --Epipelagic (talk) 09:09, 6 January 2016 (UTC)

We are focussing sharply on the teleosts, and what differentiates them from related groups. We are working hard to provide an overview of the great diversity of the group both externally and in terms of their physiology, and we appreciate that this must constitute a tour of their variety while bearing in mind their inherent 'family likeness'. The resulting description sections could not be copied-and-pasted to any other article as they would not fit any other group. As for the other groups you mention, of course they deserve expansion too, the only limiting factor being the number of teams of committed editors available to do the work. Chiswick Chap (talk) 10:19, 9 January 2016 (UTC)

In that case I would like to join in with you. Is there a case for renaming the article Teleost? --Epipelagic (talk) 19:34, 9 January 2016 (UTC)

You are welcome to join us and we will be pleased to make use of your expertise. I have no particular view on whether the article should be renamed. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 09:36, 10 January 2016 (UTC)

Yes, both EB and Merriam-Webster use Teleost, so the name is accepted in common usage. I've made the change. Chiswick Chap (talk) 08:51, 11 January 2016 (UTC)

@LittleJerry: In regard to your interest in teleost reproduction, there is an interesting ongoing discussion here. --Epipelagic (talk) 21:20, 18 January 2016 (UTC)

Yes, if the r/K selection theory thoughts about how the teleosts expanded into chondrichthyan niches can be sourced, they'd be well worth including. Chiswick Chap (talk) 09:34, 19 January 2016 (UTC)

I'll add a few more things. Then I think its really for GA. LittleJerry (talk) 18:34, 19 January 2016 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is
transcluded from Talk:Teleost/GA1
. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Dunkleosteus77 (talk · contribs) 02:58, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

Comments by Dunkleosteus77

Specific comments

I see mainly British English used but I see "color" multiple times. Also, if this is written in British English, add the template {{British English}} to the top of the article's talk page

Article is not British; changed all "colour" to "color". Chiswick Chap (talk) 08:10, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

In that case, I see "specialise", "behaviour", "minimise", and several other examples of British English.

Done. Chiswick Chap (talk) 15:16, 5 February 2016 (UTC)

Also, if this is written in American English, it would be best to use imperial units rather than the metric system. An easy to do this is to add the parameter |order=flip to all the {{convert}} templates. For example, {{convert|6|kg|lbs|order=flip}}

Done. How clever! Cwmhiraeth (talk) 11:14, 7 February 2016 (UTC)

I think the Importance to humans section should be expanded a bit; Teleosts are very important to humans (economically at least)

Added a main link to Fishing; added details of major commercial species and importance to employment, with refs. Chiswick Chap (talk) 07:51, 10 February 2016 (UTC)

General comments

Convert short tons (or long tons) to metric tons as done with meters to feet. As well as this, make sure all units in the metric system also have a conversion (in parentheses) in imperial units
In the Anatomy section, change "The first three arches are include a..." to "The first three arches include a..."

Done. Chiswick Chap (talk) 08:18, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

In the Diversity section, change "By the time they arrive they are..." to "By the time they arrive, they are..."

Done. Chiswick Chap (talk) 08:21, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

In the Diversity section, change "Some species, such as electric eels can..." to "Some species, such as electric eels, can..."

Done. Chiswick Chap (talk) 08:21, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

In the Diversity section, change "Other fish such as knifefish generate..." to "Other fish, such as knifefish, generate..."

Done, although, sometimes, it feels, I think, as if we may, perhaps, be breaking up the, er, flow. Chiswick Chap (talk) 08:21, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

In the Diversity section, change "...the advantage that when they lie on the seabed, both..." to "...the advantage that, when they lie on the seabed, both..."

Done. Chiswick Chap (talk) 08:21, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

In the Distribution section, change "zero Celsius" to "zero degrees Celsius" or "0° C"

Done. Chiswick Chap (talk) 08:12, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

In the Distribution section, change "...the tropics; and the Atherinomorpha..." to "...the tropics; the Atherinomorpha..." or "...the tropics. The Atherinomorpha..."

Done. Chiswick Chap (talk) 08:15, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

In the Distribution section, change "Teleosts including the brown trout and the scaly osman are..." to "Teleosts, including the brown trout and the scaly osman, are..."

Done. Chiswick Chap (talk) 08:16, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

In the Respiration section, change "...and like freshwater eels are..." to "...and freshwater eels are..." or "...and species like freshwater eels are..."

Done. Chiswick Chap (talk) 08:17, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

In the Sensory systems section, change "...developed sense organs" to "...developed sensory organs"

Done. LittleJerry (talk) 22:21, 6 February 2016 (UTC)

In the Sensory systems section, wikilink "chemoreceptor"

Done. LittleJerry (talk) 22:21, 6 February 2016 (UTC)

In the Sensory systems section, wikilink "Weberian organ" (the article it redirects to is called "Weberian apparatus")

Already linked above. LittleJerry (talk) 22:21, 6 February 2016 (UTC)

Make sure that the template {{convert}} is used every time units are involved

Done, except for one temperature conversion where the template produces an anomalous result. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 11:58, 7 February 2016 (UTC)

For temperature, use either template {{convert|-272|C/F}} or template {{convert|-300|C/F|C/F K}}. I recommend using imperial units since this is written in American English, so for the measurements with only a measure in Celsius, add the parameter order=flip to make it convert from Fahrenheit to Celsius instead of Celsius to Fahrenheit.

Your templates don't work for me. I think the present arrangement "temperatures 19 °F (10 °C) above the surroundings" seems satisfactory. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 18:15, 7 February 2016 (UTC)

The template you have now added is wrong because it appears as "19 °F (−7 °C) ". We are not talking about an absolute temperature here, but a difference in temperature, where 10°C is equivalent to about 19°F. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 19:32, 7 February 2016 (UTC)

In the Buoyancy section, wikilink "Chondrostei", and removed the quotation marks around it

Done. The quotes indicated the group was paraphyletic. Chiswick Chap (talk) 08:44, 7 February 2016 (UTC)

In the Reproduction and lifecycle section, wikilink "Chondrichthyes" (unless it's referring to Chondrostei)

Done. Chiswick Chap (talk) 08:44, 7 February 2016 (UTC)

In the Reproduction and lifecycle section, change "This is because, the physiological..." to "This is because the physiological..."

Done. It's fine for the reviewer to fix such minor things, quicker than writing out a sentence-long comment. Chiswick Chap (talk) 08:44, 7 February 2016 (UTC)

In the Sex identity and determination section, change "Some teleosts, such as zebrafish (Danio rerio) have..." to "Some teleosts, such as zebrafish (Danio rerio), have..."

Done. Chiswick Chap (talk) 08:44, 7 February 2016 (UTC)

In the Sex identity and determination section, change "...is the main factor but PH levels..." to "...is the main factor, but PH levels..."

Done. Chiswick Chap (talk) 08:44, 7 February 2016 (UTC)

In the Hermaphroditism section, change "...come in two forms; simultaneous and sequential" to "...come in two forms: simultaneous and sequential"

Done. Chiswick Chap (talk) 08:44, 7 February 2016 (UTC)

In the Mating tactics section, change "One notable examples are the clownfish" to "One notable example is the clownfish"

Done. Chiswick Chap (talk) 08:44, 7 February 2016 (UTC)

In the Mating tactics section, change "Individuals of one sex, usually males will developed secondary sexual characteristics" to "Individuals of one sex, usually males, will develop secondary sexual characteristics"

Done. Chiswick Chap (talk) 08:44, 7 February 2016 (UTC)

In the Mating tactics section, change "In dolphinfish (
dolphinfish
(Coryphaena)"

Done. Chiswick Chap (talk) 08:46, 7 February 2016 (UTC)

In the Mating tactics section, change "In several minnow species, male develop..." to "In several minnow species, males develop..."

Done. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 10:45, 7 February 2016 (UTC)

In the Mating tactics section, wikilink "ossified ridge" to the Ossification article

Done. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 10:45, 7 February 2016 (UTC)

In the Mating tactics section, change "...shows that the drive to reproductive can be..." to "...shows that the drive to reproductive success can be..." or "...shows that the drive to reproduce can be..."

Done. Chiswick Chap (talk) 08:44, 7 February 2016 (UTC)

In the Mating tactics section, change "where small males that where unable to" to "where small males that were unable to"