Talk:The Twilight Zone Tower of Terror/Archive 1

This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

This is one of the most poorly written articles I have seen. The description is completely unclear---i wasn't sure if they were referring to the actual ride itself, or the movie that is shown. Really bad — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.61.23.24 (talk) 08:32, 28 December 2015 (UTC)

Can we make a decision on what the photo of the Tower of Terror ride is supposed to be captioned? The photo in question has been captioned correctly for many many moons as a picture of... the Tower of Terror ride at Walt Disney World.

The theme of the exterior of the building is the Hollywood Tower Hotel, but the building itself is *not* the HTH, nor should it be captioned as such. Your opinion, so we don't continue to go back and forth in the editing? SpikeJones 8 July 2005 22:35 (UTC)

--- Actually the building has the sign, and most people I know call it that because of the huge sign that says Hollywood Tower Hotel!

The ride is not a "faster-than-gravity freefall". Because the ToT ride technology, as already explained in the article, moves the elevator car "faster than gravity" would normally handle AND because the car is not in true freefall format, the description of "simulated freefall" is accurate. The elevator car is moved in a system that controls the speed, both up and down vertical motions. The ride simulates freefall, but in reality the car can move at any speed or distance it needs to to make the ride entertaining, whether that speed be faster than gravity or not. Riders expect the ride to be a freefall style ride (and in it's original incarnation, it was close), but due to the mechanics involved, it ends up being a simulated freefall.SpikeJones 05:58, 10 July 2005 (UTC)

"Although the ride is designed to feel like a freefall, the elevator is actually accelerated downward faster than the pull of gravity for extra thrills. This can actually be observed by passengers: loose objects such as water bottles or purses will actually "float" in mid-air for a couple of seconds during the longer drops, as the lift falls faster than the objects themselves can. This effect is similar to that seen in the Reduced Gravity Aircraft used by NASA to simulate weightlessness."

"Isn't the ride based on a 'made-for-TV' movie called 'The Tower of Terror' starring Steve Guttenburg?"

No - The movie is based off the ride.

I think it would be in bad taste to include a copy of the souvenir photo that was taken just prior to her collapse on the ride, as released by the sheriff's department, in this entry. I'll include the (current) URL to the image in case somebody needs it for a Wikinews article, where it would be more appropriate. photo from ride SpikeJones 19:06, 14 July 2005 (UTC)

is the information that was removed not correct about who portrayed Rod Serling in the Twilight Zone-esque video in the library? SpikeJones 23:56, 4 September 2005 (UTC)

If I'm not mistaken, the footage of Serling from the introduction is actually him from the introduction for It's a Good Life (The Twilight Zone) (Tonight's episode calls for a different sort of introduction. Behind me, as you may recognize, is a- (map of the United States/service elevator)). The article cited talks about him standing in the lobby, giving his narration, but in the video (as I remember it, I'll have to check again) his narration is given with him off-camera. [01:00, 19 June 2006 12.170.66.130 ]

There is some conflict, for sure -- there are a number of references that talk about Joe Dante directing (the guy whose name I've forgotten, but it's in the article history) the film, and it using both a physical impersonator as well as a voice actor to replace/replicate Serling. Leonard Maltin's reference to it WDWMagic's reference to it SpikeJones 12:12, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Ive been on this ride atleast 100 times and there is no Rod Serling physical impersonator, just a voice over impersonator mrbellcaptain 11:19, 12 February 2008

There are two points on the ride that a stand in could have been used: The Library (preshow video) and a very short film after the drop sequence. WDWMagic's original interview was retracted. However, there are some other websites to look at:

[1] says "In '93 Disney wanted to use a "lookalike" for Rod Serling in the pre-show and for the closing speech after the drops. This man was filmed "mouthing" my Serling dialogue. Disney instead used an actual clip of the real Rod Serling from the episode "It's a Good Life". That is the clip you see in the pre-show. NO footage of the "lookalike" performance has EVER appeared in ANY "TOWER OF TERROR" attraction. What ever was shot that day was not used."

[2] says "He will be forever immortalized portraying Rod Serling for director Joe Dante's "Twilight Zone - Tower of Terror" ride at Disney, Orlando Florida." and the official site says almost the same thing

[3] that says Rhine portrayed Serling on this site. --blm07 16:15, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

I've added this - feel free to edit / move this information. someYoungGuy 04:43, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

What differences were made in the different incarnations of the Tower (1 through 4)? It lists the taglines, but not what they actually amounted to.

I just created the

--LightYear 04:10, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

It's worth revamping the description now that the ride has opened, after watching the video taken by one of the guests the typed description on the Wiki entry does not actually match the ride in a number of details. It's probably also worthwhile shifting the concept art so it appears further down in the listing.

There's a entry saying the tone for TokyoSea's tower entry on the page does not reflect Wikipedia guidelines, that might be the case but that narrative is taken from official Disney sources... they entered it as it exists so fault should lie with them, not the person who transcribed the official description. Kingpin1055 12:49, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

• The current Tokyo Tower of Terror section is still way to wordy (descriptions of the types of belts / minute by minute commentary of the procedure / the entire back story) and is packed with trivial information unsuited to an encyclopaedia. Unless anyone else wants to clean it up, I'll have a go myself when I get a minute. 218.143.102.89 (talk) 10:29, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

Under Paris' facts it has listed "Grand opening: Fiscal Year 2007 (likely October 2007)." New fiscal years start on Oct 1. So either it's before October 2007 for FY07, or October 2007 is FY'08. LordBleen 00:31, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

So? What's the story, 64.12.122.198? Would you care to enlighten us to why you deemed it neccesary to edit out all of that content without stating why? Or should we just take it as vandalism?

If you haven't replied to this within a maximum of two days, the removed content is going back up and is staying there until you can put forward a reason.Kingpin1055 23:52, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Just add it back in, it looks like he just screws around with articles to his liking. --blm07 00:58, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Done and done. Kingpin1055 12:33, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

tower of terror was also a film with steve guttenberg and kristen dunst in it he played a jobless reporter and she played his niece

Yes. The movie was based off the ride at Disney-MGM Studios, Walt Disney World.

Although the ride has a Twilight Zone theme, I wouldn't say it's "based" on the show. The show was an anthology, so I would say it's more of an "interactive episode" than anything else. Anyone else agree with this line of thought? -Eridani 21:01, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

I believe that when a movie is generally related to a novel (although not directly following it, they used the phrase, "based on". Tiggerjay 03:02, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

Any fan of the Twilight Zone would agree that the ride is not "based" on the Twillight Zone TV show. Im sure Disney would have us believe that, but you wont find any episode of the original TV show that features a hotel with a falling elevator or characters similar to the ones on the ride. I think this is best described as a ride with a Twilight Zone "Tie-In". 76.212.144.15 10:51, 16 August 2007 (UTC) Sandy

I removed the script section because just like lyrics, isn't that a copy write violation? --blm07 07:41, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

"Walt Disney Studios Park at Disneyland Resort Paris in France will open a fourth version of the attraction in January 2008 as the centrepiece of its movie studio-based park."

Some of my family members visited the park yesterday and they say the attraction is open and they tried it out. Can someone confirm this? If this is the case, this should be edited in both article and the Walt Disney Studios Park article. 194.78.37.122 (talk) 13:55, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

From various news reports I have read, the ride is indeed open. Officially, couldn't say.SpikeJones (talk) 15:27, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

It is open. I had trouble editing the article earlier, so could someone else try it? It opened officially on December 22, 2007. --GSK (talk) 17:04, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

This section looks terrible, should I try to organize it or incorporate the info into the attraction description sections? --blm07 16:02, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Does the info box (giving capacity details) refer to the WDW or franchise installations?

Given their different mechanisms, I would expect them to be different.

Does the WDW version have two complete rides (it has two drop towers) to increase capacity? 84.9.233.63 (talk) 13:28, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

I've got one which was taken this month - however I must be thick because I can't work out the policy on photos! Also I have no idea how to load (apart from that I;m fine...) so if anyone wants it let me know and I'll get it to them for inclusion. Gertie100 (talk) 10:52, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

In the DCA version of the ride, the doll sitting on the couch in the lobby is definitely not Talky Tina. Can this be removed? --Titan4mmb (talk) 07:30, 5 January 2009 (UTC)
Also, the number 22 references an episode of the same name in the show's second season. --Titan4mmb (talk) 01:05, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
the picture behind the counter is not Walt Disney, ive talked to a couple workers and imagineers. its not him 173.58.154.50 (talk) 04:09, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

I believe (though I can't prove it) that there are several misstatements in the ride description for California Adventure. The article describes an exact series of drops and rises, but I believer the ride is actually different each time (as is the ride in Florida). I was on it yesterday, rode it twice in a row, and the two rides were very different. I have ridden it several dozen times since it opened, and it has always seemed to be a variable ride. Second, the article says that the elevator unloads in a different place from where it loads, but I wonder about that. On a previous trip I was accompanied by a person in a wheelchair. We left the wheelchair at the immediate entrance to the elevator, after passing through the "doors", and it was waiting for us in the same position when we disembarked. I suppose it's possible that the cast transported it to a different level while we were on the ride. --MelanieN (talk) 05:45, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

An image used in this article, File:ToT PeppersGhost.jpg, has been nominated for deletion at Wikimedia Commons in the following category: Deletion requests May 2012 What should I do? Don't panic; a discussion will now take place over on Commons about whether to remove the file. This gives you an opportunity to contest the deletion, although please review Commons guidelines before doing so. If the image is non-free then you may need to upload it to Wikipedia (Commons does not allow fair use) If the image isn't freely licensed and there is no fair use rationale then it cannot be uploaded or used. To take part in any discussion, or to review a more detailed deletion rationale please visit the relevant image page (File:ToT PeppersGhost.jpg) This is Bot placed notification, another user has nominated/tagged the image -- talk ) 11:35, 1 May 2012 (UTC)

Like many Disney articles on Wikipedia, this article is severely lacking in inline citations. There are opening dates but they are not sourced. Also, the opening date for Florida is inconsistent. The lede states March 1996, but the Disney's Hollywood Studios section states July 22, 1994. The California Adventure section states 2005, but the infobox and lede state 2004. And none of this information has a reference, so one can't determine which is correct. Am I reading these dates wrong in the article? 72Dino (talk) 20:06, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

The correct dates for Florida and California are July 22, 1994, and May 5, 2004, respectively. I'm not sure when they were changed, but whoever changed them was incorrect as even parts of the article acknowledge inconsistencies with the 1996 and 2005 dates. I changed a few of the dates back, but apparently did not fix them all. --GSK ● ✉ ✓ 21:16, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

You seem well-versed in these dates, so thank you for taking care of that. I am going to tag the dates, however, with a cn tag per

WP:V and to hopefully prevent future changes and inconsistencies. 72Dino (talk

) 21:24, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/20120425172243/http://www.towerofterror.org:80/secrets/disneys-california-adventure-tower-terror-secrets to http://www.towerofterror.org/secrets/disneys-california-adventure-tower-terror-secrets

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.

Y An editor has reviewed this edit and fixed any errors that were found.

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—

 Done Elisfkc (talk) 14:51, 7 September 2016 (UTC)

How is this relevant? Since when do we mention when a Disney park change causes a negative reaction on social media? (Since when does any Disney park change not cause a negative reaction on social media?) Was the social media response mentioned about about the changing of Space Mountain into Hyperspace Mountain? No, it wasn't. How about the closure of Maelstrom? The closure of Disney's Aladdin: A Musical Spectacular? Or the changing of The Living Seas into The Seas with Nemo & Friends? No, it was not noted in any of those cases. And that's because it is not relevant to mention how people on social media react to Disney theme park change. Any thoughts on this? (preferably multiple thoughts?) Wikicontributor12 (talk) 05:16, 25 July 2016 (UTC)

I would also like to point out that this article has citations for multiple issues. Including tone. I feel that this social media note will only add to those tonal issues. Wikicontributor12 (talk) 05:49, 25 July 2016 (UTC)

It's one sentence get over it — Preceding

talk • contribs

) 05:51, 25 July 2016 (UTC)

For future reference, I do not work for Disney. I simply want to make sure that Wikipedia articles are written in the most professional, neutral tone possible. That's all. Wikicontributor12 (talk) 08:00, 25 July 2016 (UTC)

Alright. Time to get serious and professional. I am in the process of fixing some issues in this article which (as I stated here to begin with) is already tagged for various issues including tone. I explained myself quite clearly and I feel that I gave a valid argument. The social note is ultimately inconsequential. Social media reactions to change are irrelevant and immaterial to amusement ride articles. Besides, social media reactions are always negative, so it's not notable, it's trivia. All replies so far were antagonistic, aggressive, un-constructive, added no value to the discussion, and did not respond to anything that I said. I will wait one week, unless anyone (who is free to) can offer any other professional, constructive thoughts on this topic here, I will remove the social note in one week. Thank you. Wikicontributor12 (talk) 06:01, 29 August 2016 (UTC)

It's just one sentence, there are tons of wikipedia pages that have the public's reaction. Besides, it's a neutral point of view and it's verifiable. It is probably not your intention, but your tone is sounding as if you are are in control of the sentence to me. Let's come to a

talk

) 08:08, 29 August 2016 (UTC)

If it comes to a vote, I vote against the social media reaction. It seems to deviate from facts and instead pushes opinions on the subject. Elisfkc (talk) 21:08, 29 August 2016 (UTC)

The public's reaction is valid on Wikipedia though.

talk

) 21:09, 29 August 2016 (UTC)

Ok, but my vote is still to not include the sentence. Elisfkc (talk) 21:13, 29 August 2016 (UTC)

• Oppose - Per above, public's reaction is valid info.
  talk
  ) 21:16, 29 August 2016 (UTC)
• Support the exclusion of the social media response, per above. Elisfkc (talk) 22:06, 29 August 2016 (UTC)
• I Support the exclusion of the note.

To respond to the points:
1.)"It's just one sentence" That is not an argument.
2.)"Besides, it's a neutral point of view and it's verifiable." Hawkeye, just because something is verifiable does not necessarily mean that it needs to be included in an article.
3.)"there are tons of wikipedia pages that have the public's reaction." I never said that there weren't. I specifically said that social media reactions to change are irrelevant and immaterial to amusement ride articles.
As I said, social media reactions to change (especially if it concerns Disney) are always negative, so it is not notable and it is not out of the ordinary, it is trivia. Which supports the fact that not everything verifiable needs to be included in an article. Wikicontributor12 (talk) 05:35, 30 August 2016 (UTC)

You realize you are opposing the edit, correct?

talk

) 05:36, 30 August 2016 (UTC)

I said oppose the inclusion of the note. Which means that I oppose the idea of including the note in the article. But I'll make an edit to make that more clear that I support the idea of excluding the note.Wikicontributor12 (talk) 06:17, 30 August 2016 (UTC)

Thank you for clearing that up. It makes a lot more sense now.

talk

) 07:06, 30 August 2016 (UTC)

So we have one opposition to the note removal, and two supports for the note removal. Is there anyone else who wants to give their vote? What are your thoughts on how to proceed, Elisfkc? Wikicontributor12 (talk) 07:04, 5 September 2016 (UTC)

@Wikicontributor12: I'm biased since I voted for removal, so I'd like to see it taken off. However, I think that this might require more discussion, so I would suggest posting a section about it in each of the WikiProjects that cover this article. Elisfkc (talk) 15:01, 7 September 2016 (UTC)

@Elisfkc: Sounds fair. Though I have to admit, I am not very familiar with WikiProjects. Wikicontributor12 (talk) 18:34, 7 September 2016 (UTC)

In response to Wikicontributor12

The more the merrier 😉 — Preceding

Making this a subsection under "Social media note". Elisfkc (talk) 14:49, 7 September 2016 (UTC)

Tremendous/Some

I recently added a sentence that said the change from ToT to GoG received a tremendous amount of negative feedback.

The source you provided for the claim is *not* the YouTube video. On Wikipedia, we go by what the source says.Wikicontributor12 (talk) 06:06, 25 July 2016 (UTC)

I originally linked the video, and than someone else wanted their news source instead...

talk

) 06:12, 25 July 2016 (UTC)

For the record, I do not think that the YouTube video from the Disneyland channel is a reliable source. Because the same exact video was uploaded to the Marvel Entertainment YouTube channel, and that upload of the video has over two thousand likes in comparison to the relativity small number of dislikes in the hundreds.Wikicontributor12 (talk) 08:25, 25 July 2016 (UTC)

The Marvel channel will obviously be biased since it's going to be a Marvel ride. The Disneyland channel is unbiased. It's the same thing as asking a preschool class what their favourite ride is at Disneyland than using that info for a "best rides at disneyland list". It would obviously be something like mickey's toontown, but if you asked a variety of different people, you would get a more constructive result like Pirates.

talk

) 08:32, 25 July 2016 (UTC)

Making this a subsection under "Social media note". Elisfkc (talk) 14:49, 7 September 2016 (UTC)

Comment – First of all, the source cited in the article clearly states "some", which is a far cry from "tremendous". Also, the like/dislike poll at the proposed YouTube source would not be acceptable evidence in support of "tremendous". That is a form of public polling, meaning it isn't scientific in any way and can be gamed. In film articles, for example, we do not allow audience reactions on IMDB or Rotten Tomatoes to creep into articles. The only audience reaction scores we accept for film are those provided by

Comment – Thank you for offering your thoughts GoneIn60. That pretty much sums up my thoughts as well. If there are no objections, in a few days I will go ahead and remove the note. Wikicontributor12 (talk) 19:52, 11 September 2016 (UTC)

Comment It's a bit disingenuous to base this discussion on the current state on the article, when Wikicontributor removed the reliable sources (not YouTube counts) I added that demonstrated that the "note" meets the burden of UNDUE. Whether we like it or not, the social media reaction was a legitimate and much-discussed aspect of the coverage of the ride closure in reliable sources. Given the reliable sources I have provided, some mention of the cultural response to the announcement should remain in the article. Regards, James (^talk/_contribs) 20:31, 12 September 2016 (UTC)

Comment As stated above, it's not out of the ordinary that a Disney park change elicits negative reactions on social media. Anytime that a Disney ride is replaced, there is always negative reaction on social media. (Regardless of whether news sources choose to cover that aspect or not). For this reason, social media reactions are irrelevant to Disney ride articles. Just because one can find at least five sources for a note, does not give it any added importance. Again, even though something is verifiable, (no matter how many sources there are) does not mean that it needs to be included. I am still in support of removing the note. It adds nothing of significance or notability to the article. Wikicontributor12 (talk) 05:24, 13 September 2016 (UTC)

James, I looked at the four sources you were referring to. Two are basically saying the reaction was mixed (one of which was an opinion piece by an author who was a fan of the current tower ride), and the other two only list some examples of negative reaction without attempting to quantify it. So there is literally nothing here that says the reaction so far is out of the ordinary, and it even appears the sources don't entirely agree with one another on how severe the negative reaction has been. Also, two of the four are local/regional sources. Typically, being local isn't an issue unless the discussion transcends into one about significance. Local news is reported all the time to fill dead space, but when it's reported nationally, that tends to show more significance. While we do have two sources that aren't localized (and there are probably more), I would almost immediately cross of the other two in terms of significance. --GoneIn60 (talk) 16:17, 13 September 2016 (UTC)

Comment So, where are we at this point? It appears that their is more of a consensus in support of the note removal. Does this mean that the note should be removed now? Any thoughts? Wikicontributor12 (talk) 08:35, 16 September 2016 (UTC)

There isn't a clear consensus here, as participation has been limited to only a handful of editors, and for the most part opinions are somewhat split. However, per

WP:ONUS, the burden of obtaining consensus is on the editor(s) wishing to include the contested information. In light of that, it can be removed until consensus proves otherwise. --GoneIn60 (talk

) 16:05, 17 September 2016 (UTC)

Fair enough. Thanks for the reply. Wikicontributor12 (talk) 19:41, 17 September 2016 (UTC)

If You go to the back side of Tower of Terror(Florida) at night you will notice one of the windows is lit with one of the ghosts looking down at you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.29.225.60 (talk) 17:57, 24 July 2014 (UTC)

While that sounds interesting, it's also quite

trivial. We don't need to list every single in-joke or hidden whatever in these attractions. There would need to be something significant about this one for it to be added. --McDoobAU93

18:31, 24 July 2014 (UTC)

I also noticed when I was going backstage in Disney's California Adventure, You can see lights of what appear to be ghosts on one of the windows in the back of Tower Of Terror Marth The Hero King (talk) 15:25, 7 October 2016 (UTC) Marth The Hero King

It seems that this talk page is too long. Since Help:Archiving a talk page says to establish a consensus on a article talk page before setting up a bot, I would like to suggest using ClueBot III's sequentially numbered archives for this page. If there is no other opinion in 7 days or if the consensus agrees with me, then I will enable it at that time. Elisfkc (talk) 14:49, 7 September 2016 (UTC)

• Support archiving. Regards, James (^talk/_contribs) 17:24, 7 September 2016 (UTC)
• Support archiving. Wikicontributor12 (talk) 23:15, 7 September 2016 (UTC)
• Comment – While I understand the help page suggests obtaining consensus first, in my experience, a discussion isn't usually necessary. Consensus can technically be achieved through editing; you make the good faith
  bold edit, and if it isn't challenged over time, then you have achieved consensus for doing so. I've added the archive setting to dozens of talk pages in the past without discussing it first. Feel free to do so here. --GoneIn60 (talk
  ) 11:10, 11 September 2016 (UTC)

 Done Elisfkc (talk) 06:24, 13 September 2016 (UTC)

Should we mention that the Paris version is falling apart and the area around it had to be blocked off due to the exterior being somewhat unstable? Marth The Hero King (talk) 15:19, 7 October 2016 (UTC)Marth the Hero King.

@Marth The Hero King: provide reputable sources. Elisfkc (talk) 04:00, 8 October 2016 (UTC)

Okay. I have a good article that mentions the issue with the Paris tower of terror http://micechat.com/97747-maintenance-on-paris-tower-of-terror-is-terrifying/. Would this be good for the article? Marth The Hero King (talk) 16:14, 10 October 2016 (UTC) Marth The Hero King

I recently added the edit, and it was immediately taken down and for good reason. It would not be a good thing to start a negative reputation towrds Disney. It was a rash idea and I regret putting it up. So therefore I apologize. Not only to Wikipedia but to Disney as well. Marth The Hero King (talk) 14:56, 18 October 2016 (UTC)Marth The Hero King

The reason your edit was removed is because MiceChat is not a

neutral point of view, regardless of whether that causes a "positive" or "negative" reputation to a corporation. James (^talk/_contribs

) 16:25, 19 October 2016 (UTC)