User talk:Brutal Russian
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before the question. Again, welcome! The Bushranger One ping only 05:07, 5 February 2014 (UTC)March 2014
- Hello, UTC)
- Hi, Brutal Russian. My Ukrainian and Russian is a little better than I would have it on my user page. What has happened here is that English WP:COMMONNAMEhas been used (in other words, these are the terms used in English language texts).
- Hi, Brutal Russian. My Ukrainian and Russian is a little better than I would have it on my user page. What has happened here is that English
- I'd suggest that you start by reading through the talk page archives as it's one of the articles covered by WP:BRDis likely to get you blocked from editing in this area and on other Eastern European articles if you don't approach the subject with diplomacy.
- I'd suggest that you start by reading through the talk page archives as it's one of the articles covered by
- If you read through the old discussions, it will give you a better understanding of how convoluted and painful the development of the article has been and, yes, I think you'll find that those of us who haven't been blocked are well aware of the need to tidy it up. The kind of tidy-up is another question altogether.
- Best approach - Query the the wording on the talk page as you have here with me in order to get a discussion going and state what you would like to change and why. Don't be too disappointed if you don't get an immediate response as many of the editors still entitled to be involved in this article - both Russian and Ukrainian - are frantically working on current affairs (for obvious reasons)... but they (I am including myself) will end up responding to you. In all seriousness, sneezing in that general direction without consulting on the talk page is hazardous to your health. Happy editing! --Iryna Harpy (talk) 05:36, 22 March 2014 (UTC)
De rerum natura
Quick question about this edit. Should the "m" be an "n"? I've always heard it pronounced "rerum", not "rerun", but I'm not familiar with the sandhi.--Gen. Quon (Talk) 22:20, 13 February 2018 (UTC)
@Gen. Quon: A word-final -m in both Old and Classical Latin are markers of nasalisation (see any grammar for reference, e.g. Vox Latina), so if the word "rerum" stood alone, its IPA would have been [reːrũ] (some argue nasalised vowels were probably long but I haven't seen any substantiation of this, and in either case it's non-phonemic as long as nasalisation is maintained). However when followed by a following non-fricative consonant inside the same segment, the -m was sort of restored by assimilating to that consonant by place of articulation, so a dental [n] in our case, but [m] before labials and [ŋ] before velars. This assimilation is older than the disappearance of the final consonant (and still productive even in modern Romance), thus tam + dem = tandem [tãndẽ] and tam + quam = tamquam/tanquam [tãŋkʷã], but [m] intervocalically preserved in tam + em = tamen [tamen]. That's what I was referring to by "sandhi". Since the name of the book is one speech segment, I think it makes sense to transcribe the pronunciation of that and not of individual words that comprise it. Brutal Russian (talk) 12:09, 14 February 2018 (UTC)
- Thank you for the explanation. I had forgotten about the phonetic feature of the final -m in Classical Latin (it's been awhile since I've scanned poetry, and I believe that's when features like this were first mentioned to me). Anyway, I appreciate it.--Gen. Quon (Talk) 14:19, 14 February 2018 (UTC)
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Minor question
Hi Brutal Russian, the edit was motivated by the following reasons: with respect to Spanish and Italian, a link has already been provided to them plenty of times already (even though I concur that, by this logic, we should keep doing so with the rest of the links); I did not check whether Portuguese was already mentioned, so I left the link. As for standard Italian, I agree with you that this term is cited in academic literature and might have well been kept as it was before, but my preoccupation with it was its ambiguous denotation field, especially because (at least in Italian linguistics) it is rather common to be found to reference the degree of divergence between both the Italian varieties and the linguistically non-Italian lects; I simply grew concerned that someone who is not knowledgeable about the topic might be led to believe, from the context of the comparisons with other Romance languagees, that Sardinian may be in fact... a non-standard form of "actual" Italian. Feel free to revert the changes if you think that such worries are just not valid enough to justify them; I've made them in passing while focusing on providing sources to non-related paragraphs.--Dk1919 (talk) 19:49, 9 March 2021 (UTC)
- @Dk1919 Franking: Right, I see regarding Italian, it never occurred to me that this was a possible interpretation, and I agree that it's a potential problem. Perhaps adding something like (but not all of its dialects) would be desirable. As for language links, I think that we should rather track them inside one section (such as Phonology), not in the entire article, because, if my own reading habits are any indication, people typically read by section. So we might want to avoid too many identical links inside one section, but I feel that linking the first occurrence within a section is necessary. Brutal Russian (talk) 21:17, 9 March 2021 (UTC)
- @Brutal Russian: Not an easy thing to settle I am afraid, as even the page regarding the varieties of Regional Italian is not particularly developed relative to other linguistic articles. I know what you mean, though; even in the form of italiano popolare specific to Sardinia, things like the 5-vowel system are carried over from the originary language. That being said, I am of the opinion that until we have a better page to build on, it might be better to imply that by "Italian" only the standard form thereof is mentioned (even though we know that languages don't work like that!), leaving the question of the actual fragmentation of Italian into internal dialects and/or their degree of divergence from the standard to another page entirely; I don't find it myself a particularly satisfying conclusion, but I can't come up at least at the moment with another that might obviate potential misunderstandings on the issue (which are common enough in Italy itself, ironically). Regarding the links, I agree with you that leaving the links per section might be the best policy overall.--Dk1919 (talk) 22:09, 9 March 2021 (UTC)
RfC notice
This is a neutral notice sent to all non-bot/non-blocked registered users who edited Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Linguistics in the past year that there is a new request for comment at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Linguistics § RfC: Where should so-called voiceless approximants be covered?. Nardog (talk) 10:52, 27 July 2021 (UTC)