User talk:Master of Puppets/Talk/Archive/Archive27
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ATTENTION PLEASE
New Message on my talk page!
Help possible need
Wikipedia Ambassador Program is looking for new Online AmbassadorsHi! Since you've been identified as an Awesome Wikipedian, I wanted to let you know about the Online Ambassador. We're looking for friendly Wikipedians who are good at reviewing articles and giving feedback to serve as mentors for students who are assigned to write for Wikipedia in their classes.
If you're interested, I encourage you to take a look at the Online Ambassador guidelines; the "mentorship process" describes roughly what will be expected of mentors during the current term, which started in January and goes through early May. If that's something you want to do, please apply!
You can find instructions for applying at WP:ONLINE.
I hope to hear from you soon.--Sage Ross - Online Facilitator, Wikimedia Foundation (talk) 19:27, 8 February 2011 (UTC)
talk page.
- See a log of files removed today here.
- Shut off the bot here.
- Report errors here.
Thank you, -- DASHBot (talk) 05:10, 9 February 2011 (UTC)
Mail
00:05, 10 February 2011 (UTC)
Wait
- How was this a copy-paste move? It was a recreation of a deleted article. Sasata (talk) 23:46, 10 February 2011 (UTC)
- Which was, to my knowledge, notabilified. Is that a word? m.o.p 01:05, 11 February 2011 (UTC)
:D![](//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/29/Choco_chip_cookie_bitten.jpg/100px-Choco_chip_cookie_bitten.jpg)
CharlieEchoTango has eaten your {{cookie}}! The cookie made them happy and they'd like to give you a great big hug for donating it. Spread the WikiLove by giving out more {{cookie}}s, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend. Thanks again!
Spread the goodness of cookies by adding {{subst:cookie}} to someone's talk page with a friendly message, or eat a cookie with {{subst:munch}}!
[[CharlieEchoTango]] 01:38, 11 February 2011 (UTC)
Blanking of material at The Deputy
- MOP, how would you feel about one month of full protection for this article? I see that Ekwos has stopped by to remove the section again. The dispute about the KGB connection has been running for almost a year now. Full protection could motivate people to discuss the issue, and perhaps create an RfC. Thanks EdJohnston (talk) 20:32, 11 February 2011 (UTC)
- One month of pending changes is better, I think. I don't like limiting legitimate editors, but this will disallow further warring from disrupting the 'pedia. m.o.p 07:10, 12 February 2011 (UTC)
Deletion of Gabriel Weinberg
- It wasn't my decision to delete the article. We had clear community consensus. Please stop taking thins personally. m.o.p 07:10, 12 February 2011 (UTC)
Edit summariesActually user:Zjarriretues is removing a reliable source [[1]] that mentions his ethnicity and places another that's more suitable to his national standarts. Although the source Zjarri. prefers is also 'rs' he did not disagree in the article's talkpage with my version [[2]].
Unfortunately when a couple of months passed you prefered to make his revert per
wp:ninja, without explaining the reason of this (very) delayed revert.Alexikoua (talk) 17:03, 14 February 2011 (UTC)]
I reverted myself, however, an explanation is needed in the talkpage by the user since he agreed in the past with the version I've presented on Aug..Alexikoua (talk) 17:14, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
Your friend the the IP
sent you an email
- One of your userboxes says you're only 17! I would have sworn you were older than that! ; ) --Kenatipo speak! 23:40, 16 February 2011 (UTC)
Godzilla
- I feel that it doesn't. If you check our crystal ball policy, you'll notice that it says, "It is appropriate to report discussion and arguments about the prospects for success of future proposals and projects or whether some development will occur, if discussion is properly referenced." That policy is meant to stop unsourced conjecture and speculation by editors, so I think we're fine in this case. The Hobbit film project with all its troubles). Here, with Godzilla, the reports are extremely normal. The studio announces its plans for a film, and a director is attached for it (which is not a guarantee). That's what it boils down to, and it's not enough to be more than a news source. Erik (talk | contribs) 16:11, 17 February 2011 (UTC)
- I appreciate that you've explained your position to me (though I did read your points in the AFD thread) but I can't delve into stuff like this. If you're not happy with my close, you're fully welcome to ask another administrator or even open another AFD. m.o.p 16:15, 17 February 2011 (UTC)
- I won't do anything for now. I would just prefer to keep such articles a rarity. Following films for some time, a lot of people tend to create an article about a film the moment it is announced (or the moment something new happens, like a new director). I do like to report discussion (did so at Concrete Island) but it's more a matter of where for me, to ensure topics of enduring notability. I did want to ask, do you think a merge discussion in general would be more beneficial? I feel like an AFD like that foments a keep-or-delete mentality that overrides the in-between solution of reporting discussion under a broader article until we can be near certain a film will exist. Erik (talk | contribs) 16:21, 17 February 2011 (UTC)
- A merge discussion would be great; I could weigh in and such. Feel free to open one up if you'd like to. m.o.p 23:03, 17 February 2011 (UTC)
]
Please respond
userspace
Talkback 16:14, 19 February 2011 (UTC)
Protect my talk page
- Lately, this IP also misused the edit war template on my talk page.Jasper Deng (talk) 00:37, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
Block an IP
E-Mail
nice guyhiii master of puppets,
ok do u know the movie Twilght saga ?
rply me back i want 2 talk 2 u a lot because i like ur pesonalty.BY
talk) 11:58, 28 April 2011 (UTC)]
File source problem with File:MoPuppetarmy.pngThank you for uploading File:MoPuppetarmy.png. I noticed that the file's description page currently doesn't specify who created the content, so the copyright status is unclear. If you did not create this file yourself, you will need to specify the owner of the copyright. If you obtained it from a website, please add a link to the website from which it was taken, together with a brief restatement of that website's terms of use of its content. However, if the copyright holder is a party unaffiliated from the website's publisher, that copyright should also be acknowledged.
If you have uploaded other files, consider verifying that you have specified sources for those files as well. You can find a list of files you have created in your upload log. Unsourced and untagged images may be deleted one week after they have been tagged per Wikipedia's criteria for speedy deletion, F4. If the image is copyrighted and non-free, the image will be deleted 48 hours after 11:44, 11 May 2011 (UTC) per speedy deletion criterion F7. If the file is already gone, you can still make a request for undeletion and ask for a chance to fix the problem. You may wish to read the Wikipedia's image use policy. If you have any questions or are in need of assistance please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. Magog the Ogre (talk) 11:44, 11 May 2011 (UTC)
The Deputy
- Thanks for your reply. My concern was not that Jayjg indicated he would rewrite and did not do so, but that he had agreed to allow more of the disputed section in the article rather than a dismissive sentence or two, but when editors began to delete the entire section based on frivolous reasons, he supported it. It appears now that we have, or are in the process of reaching a resolution. The section is now in the article, reduced substantially to account of Jayjg's concers about undue weight. Mamalujo (talk) 18:40, 27 May 2011 (UTC)
Carla Rushing page deletion
Any further discussion of Sarah Palin will result in a warning, and then a temporary block. Thank you!Hmmm, that might be just a tad excessive. We don't want to suppress all discussion, because that's when the pressure has nowhere to go, and people will go and meatball:ExpandScope.
Since scope is already expanded to international media, forcing scope to expand further might be a bit of a Bad Idea (tm). I recommend Not Going There.
If we're really intent on keeping discussions off of WP, we can always create a wikinews article, and link to the "discuss this article" page.
However, at the moment, people seem to be keeping it down to a dull roar anyway.
--Kim Bruning (talk) 22:44, 6 June 2011 (UTC)
- I think you caught my side point, but I'd like to stress the part I'm trying to tell you to watch out for!
- Long term empirical experience shows that attempts to curtail discussion on wikipedia will not slow down the internet discussion elsewhere (or even on wikipedia). Instead, that's exactly what will feed it more and more steam. So Don't Do That.
- Experience shows that the following approaches work:
- Try to centralize all (spurious) discussion in one place
- keep it as focused on encyclopedic work as possible.
- Treat the new users like new users. They don't know our rules yet. Teach them!
- The foundation would like to see us be more welcoming towards new users. That's a good idea! Let's do that.
- --Kim Bruning (talk) 00:26, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
- And... it went to AN/I (see below) --Kim Bruning (talk) 01:33, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
Edit Notice on Paul RevereYou seem to be asserting some admin right to quench discussion on the talk page by blocking and/or warning with the editnotice that I don't think we have, by policy. IAR doesn't cover stomping on people, no matter how annoying a particular conversation is.
Kelly started a
WP:ANI discussion on this.
Followups probably best on ANI as I am sure others will want to comment. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 01:15, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
- On review - I'm going to blank the edit notice now. If an ANI consensus develops to support restoring it then I'll not object at all, but I think it's novel and enough of a stretch that the default should be "no" unless consensus develops otherwise. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 01:19, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
How does a user find a mentor?
Helen Lucy Burke
Talkback
I did what you asked but the IP reverted it again. PTJoshua (talk) 21:09, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
- You're removing everything I say. Please don't do this. It isn't helpful. --86.45.75.42 (talk) 21:19, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
- I'll talk to them. Sit tight for a second. m.o.p 21:10, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
RE: Deletion of 48gogreen page :ApalejaHello,
Thank you for quick response. I appreciate your reason. but if you do some research you'll find more then 4 or 5 substantial mentions in local or international media - in a newspaper, on a notable website, etc. - to put forward this article.
There is a link on official website of company. http://www.48gogreen.com/static/web
Looking forward for your response. thank you in advance to undelete article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Apaleja (talk • contribs) 08:03, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
Here are some articles from International Press (you can use Google translator-if you use chrome it'll provide option immediately):
http://www.regione.emilia-romagna.it/wcm/cinema/sezioni_primopiano/PrimoPiano/Gadoev.htm
http://domani.arcoiris.tv/girano-un-corto-in-48-ore-e-arrivano-dritti-a-cannes/
http://www.close-up.it/spip.php?article6724
http://www.flashvideo.it/news/9/2578/
http://www.radioemiliaromagna.it/cultura/cinema/videomaker_bolognesi_cannes_corto_ecologico.aspx
Also if YOU HAD READ careful our site you should have see the Press link (those are press links not blogs) with all these web press: http://www.48gogreen.com/static/web
Thank you — Preceding unsigned comment added by Apaleja (talk • contribs) 08:22, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
Final warning On Edit Warring of Efik language disputeIf My Reporting a false article is the reason you want to block me. Then Go ahead and BLOCK me.- I can be Block because I don't care to be part of a web/Encyclopedia of Lies! Although I have contributed anonymously to wikipedia since 2008, I only just signed on a few weeks ago to report an error that I thought was made. But you and your other BIASED administrators have refused to fix this error, instead you're all threatening to block me.
- : According to Wikipedia A false statement/article is removed immediatley it is realized. Yet as am reporting it you all are threatening me for causing disruption.
- You all are saying that I called I called Kwami Slow, Dumb etc. Yet Kwami used the words Ignorance first.
"As for Ukwa, your ignorance is not evidence of anything".
- What is the meaning of IGNORANCE? S/He also said;
"But we cannot have the same article under two names, nor an article on Ibibio-Efik that does not include Ibibio, nor an article on Efik that does not include Efik. A little common sense would be helpful."
- What is meaning of Common sense? Or because Kwami put it very nicely, and mine wasn't? Also I wasn't blanking the Efik page, since I just signed on it takes me a long while to write up an article. According to the statements above, Kwami said I could develop articles on Efik and Ibibio, that is what I was doing when you or your other BIASED administrators returned the articles back to the re-direct.
- : Since wikipedia says a false statement is fixed immediately it is reported, I explained out the mistakes, but Kwami kept insisting that me a native who speaks these languages was wrong and asked for sources. I provided the sources and Kwami Called A brilliant Historian who is a Million times more knowledgable than Kwami on the language;
"utterly ignorant AND not some random idiot who posted a web page".
- Yet you and your other Biased colleges are claiming that am the one attacking Kwami and causing a disruption.
- : Am done with Wikipedia, am going to be taking this issues to the Founder/head by email, once the Ibibio union are involved it might become a legal matter if Wikipedia still continues to portray this misleading information.
I will take this matter to the heads by Email first because they might not be aware of what you all supposed administrators are doing to their image. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ibibiogrl (talk • contribs) 21:41, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
Hi Mops,
Pls read my comments on the ANI page. I think Ibibiogrl means well, she just needs some guidance, and she's not willing to take it from me. — kwami (talk) 22:17, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
- Obviously we would like to have contributors from that part of the world, but Ibibiogrl's record here is so unpromising that I think we need good assurances that something will change in the future. (I would welcome any evidence that Ibibiogrl means well. It is hard to improve the encyclopedia when you have no interest in or respect for its policies. Read her statement above if you are uncertain about that). Mentorship has value only for someone who understands that something has gone wrong and would be willing to work with a mentor. EdJohnston (talk) 22:46, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
- I agree with Ed in this case - I have no grudge against Ibibiogrl, but the editor's attitude, despite multiple pleas for otherwise, remained combative and even insulting at points. If there's a serious expression of guilt and the editor decides they'd like to walk a different path, I'd be happy to help. However, as it is now, I believe the block should stand. m.o.p 22:52, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
- I agree that it would require some indication that she wants help. Just my 2¢ as the person she's most upset with. — kwami (talk) 23:05, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
- For the record, your input is highly appreciated, and very admirable; as the editor in conflict with her, I respect your neutrality and helpfulness. As for Ibibiogrl, we'll see where that goes. Cheers! m.o.p 00:59, 17 June 2011 (UTC)
Can you adopt me i want a new adopter.
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Mr. Pit (2nd nomination)
This isn't personalI belive the AFD on Campaign for "santorum" neologism was closed way to early and am contesting your close.
An editor has asked for a deletion review of Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2011 June 21. Because you closed the deletion discussion for this page, speedily deleted it, or otherwise were interested in the page, you might want to participate in the deletion review. KoshVorlon' Naluboutes Aeria Gloris 12:17, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
James Ball
Thank you for your concern. But I will not be blocked - _I am adding_ wikipedia to adblock. I also feel regret for having donated to the site before, but this will not happen again. Demonuminon (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 23:25, 23 June 2011 (UTC).
Thomas James BallWhy the hell did you delete his page?
Does his suffering mean nothing to you?
Heartless bitch. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.57.206.141 (talk • contribs)
Hey, Master of Puppets, OBVIOUSLY there is a public interested in keeping this article. Restore your deletion. Look at the massive flood of comments regarding your deletion here: http://www.<linkremoved>.com/2011/06/24/the-organized-silencing-of-a-man-publicly-burned-to-death/ and here http://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/i81rw/the_organized_silencing_of_a_man_publicly_burned/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Romerom (talk • contribs) 20:05, 24 June 2011 (UTC)
- Ball HIT A FOUR-YEAR-OLD CHILD, refused to pay child support, called for insurrection, demanded terrorism and violence as a solution, ultimately killed himself (leaving his children without a father) and damaged public property in the process. Even after all that, his incoherent message has mostly been ignored except by the less discriminating people claiming to speak for "men's rights" who haven't bothered to look into the details of his case. (If you really want to damage your cause, adopt a grown man who hits his own four-year-old child and flakes out on his child support as your poster boy.) --Orange Mike | Talk 20:26, 24 June 2011 (UTC) (proud father who has never hit his child in his lifetime)
Hey, "proud father who never hit his child in his lifetime", not everybody is against disciplining their children by spanking. He said his daughter was licking his hand, and he had told her repeatedly to stop. She didn't, and he smacked her. He didn't punch her, or send her to the hospital, or cause any serious injury. Just enough to have his wife baited into calling the police on him by child protective services. As for child support, he paid his child support until the point where he wasn't able to afford it due to an employment issue. Is that such a crazy thing to have happen? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.211.155.1 (talk) 04:28, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
- Again, while I do sympathize with the family and supporters, I am not taking sides, nor do I have any bias in this situation. I am not a feminist, nor am I a misogynist - I am fair and neutral towards all people, whether they be abusive fathers or abused fathers.
- This deletion was enforced solely in keeping with Wikipedia's long-established policies. Mr. Ball's death, while indeed tragic, was not reported throughout the reliable media enough to show his notability.
- I hope this makes sense to all those saddened by Mr. Ball's passing. Cheers, m.o.p 21:04, 24 June 2011 (UTC)
- I understand that you do not think that Mr. Ball's death is something that qualifies as an event and thus deleted said article. I disagree but I do see the merits of your argument. However, you claim to be unbiased in this debate and yet for someone who judges on the letter of the law you break the law and close debate 2.5 days before final judgment is to be rendered. If you have no corner then I ask why make this article a special case that it must be quelled , by your own admission, 2.5 days before any other articles found in similar circumstances are voted upon. I petition you to reinstate and allow the normal course of the discussion continue for the 2.5 days, allow the full opportunity for the pro side to make their case then recluse yourself from the final judgment. This is the only way to ensure transparency so that your claim of neutrality can be believed. CaffOMHW (talk) 03:28, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
- Ahead of things, let me tell you that I appreciate the civility.
- Wikipedia's policies aren't law - they're guidelines. As an administrator, it's my job to apply policy in a way that is completely devoid of bias and benefits the encyclopedia as a whole.
- On a side note, the deletion nomination was closed 1.5 days before the normal time. The page had a whole work week to be saved, rewritten or reworked; however, due to the lack of outside sourcing that carried reliability, there was nothing to keep that wasn't editorialized or unencyclopedic. I would also like to point out that almost every account that voiced their opinion in the 'keep' spectrum had either only edited that page or had edited very little aside from the page. Meanwhile, the deletion argument was put forward by experienced users.
- Though I understand that some people take offense to my early closure, I assure them that one extra day would not have yielded success, and that I took many factors into consideration before closing the discussion.
- Again, thank you for the civility, but I won't be overturning judgment or recreating a deletion discussion at this date. m.o.p 08:17, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
ITNthx for the 2 quick updates of my nom ;)
but also can you see the bolivia one. its got support and very nearly out of the news. we could tack it nearer the border.Lihaas (talk) 22:26, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
Ball closure.
Thank God you are an ambassador for WP, and against censorship, MoP. When Wikipedia fails, and it eventually will, it will largely be because most people don't like to be gamed and would rather not read well cultivated information that is maintained by dishonest brokers who hide behind rules that are never applied in an even-handed manner. The idea that a story is not relevant merely because it is not yet encyclopedic is ridiculous when one sees all the articles which linger on for months or years in the same state. The idea that a story is not relevant because the motivations/justifications of the user are suspect would be grounds for eliminating half the biographical articles in WP. It smacks of an agenda. The appearance of impropriety is as bad as actual impropriety.173.78.20.96 (talk) 04:51, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
- I appreciate the feedback.
- I do my best to maintain an equal, proportionate response in all dealings on Wikipedia; I don't defend things I like, or attack things I dislike, just for the reason of screwing with people. That strikes me as childish. Instead, the most I can do is try to help others understand Wikipedia policies, which are generally mind-bending and hard to grasp (for example, most people ask, "What's the reasoning a war hero isn't considered notable when Donkey Kong is?").
- Maybe one day the policies will change. I mean, most of these were written five, six year ago - the world's changing, and I expect they will with time. But, for now, the guidelines handle what comes in.
- Again, thanks for the input. I appreciate not being personally attacked - it makes it easier to reply. Cheers, m.o.p 05:08, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Natami (2nd nomination)
- The close was thoroughly thought-out, so there's not much ground for me to explore that I haven't already. If you're set on going to DRV, there's nothing I can say which will change your mind, and it's your right to ask for a review. However, current consensus sits at delete (unless the 'keep' side is hiding an ace-in-the-hole reliable source or something). Cheers, m.o.p 04:55, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- So, what about the reliable sources we already brought up in the AfD such as this interview in Amiga Future or this news article from nr2.ru? We've already established that Amiga Future isn't sponsored by a hardware company as one !voter there falsely claimed. On a related note, did you discount the !votes from individuals making misleading statements or those claiming there were "no independent reliable sources"? (I could tell you how that !voter happened to show up there, but he isn't going to like it.) I could also link to forum posts by another delete !voter who showed up there who was very much into a "delete at any cost" mode because he doesn't like "amiga clones". --Tothwolf (talk) 05:11, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- Those sources were there before the previous close, and I, like the previous administrator, do not think they're strong enough.
- I've already covered what kind of rationale was discounted and what wasn't.
- As for your last statement about other editors - I'm not quite sure what your point is, but I don't think it's relevant. As I said, I've discounted any rationale that does not apply policy.
- Cheers, m.o.p 05:33, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- Uh, no...nr2.ru was only brought up in the second AfD. Strong enough is also an argument to be made in a !vote, not a closing statement. --Tothwolf (talk) 05:56, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- My apologies, the Russian source was indeed added after the first AfD. Still too shaky for a stand-alone article, though. Cheers, m.o.p 13:42, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- To follow up on my earlier comment, while I don't really want to get into an "X did this because of Y" sort of thing with regards to this AfD, there were a number of delete !voters who showed up there for personal reasons/vendettas/bias and/or who made false statements about sources. Despite the template at the top of the AfD, the second AfD also didn't suffer from the forum canvassing that the first did. One of the delete !voters actually came by way of the forum and first AfD and was trolling because of his personal dislike of Amiga clones. --Tothwolf (talk) 15:33, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
If they have valid, policy-based rationale, their personal motivation doesn't matter, solely for the reason that an encyclopedia based on liking or disliking things would crumble instantly. I'm sure some of the deletion crew could just-as-easily blame keep voters for being enthusiasts and fans of Natami - but that's not important. As a result, making allegations of personal bias is unnecessary. The help is appreciated, but there's nothing I can do with the information. m.o.p 15:39, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- It matters when someone makes false statements and tries to hide what they are doing behind policy. As for keeps, quite a number appear to be from well established editors who don't appear to be all that interested in Amiga topics. As for myself, I wasn't even aware of NatAmi until the first AfD and didn't even !vote in the first AfD since I thought it was pretty obvious it was headed for a no-consensus close. --Tothwolf (talk) 15:58, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- Again, if their rationale is grounded in policy, their motivation does not matter, simply because it's impossible to discern someone's intent through text, and because the second someone accuses another of favoritism/malicious intent the entire argument turns into a bunch of people shouting, "You're lying." That's why there's nothing I can do with your information in this case. Cheers, m.o.p 16:02, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- Apologies to you, M.O.P., for addressing another editor on your talk page, but I just wanted to jump in this conversation. Tothwolf, with no prejudice against you at all I strongly suggest you take this in perspective. There have been two AFDs and an ANI report over this article. The way you treated me on my talk page threatening DRV because I was a new administrator was, as I feel it, borderline harassing. That you canvassed two other administrators to talk to me was also a below the belt move. In good faith, I relisted the debate and it has closed again as delete. I strongly suggest taking the advice at WP:DGAF into account here and let the issue go. I don't think there will be a problem recreating this article, even pulling the old content back from the deletion log, when the subject has better sources in a broader community. I hold no ill feeling toward you, this is purely honest advice.--v/r - TP 16:46, 27 June 2011 (UTC)]
- TParis, while you are correct in that this talk page is not the place for this, because you brought this up here and you seem to value honest feedback, I'll address this here.
In no way did I ever threaten you with DRV, let alone because you were a new administrator (discussion in question). I did however upon noticing that you had passed RFA only days earlier decide it best not to press you further in public and instead sent you this short email: "Sigh. I just noticed you just finished your RFA. The Natami AfD was a bad AfD to pick to close right out of the gate. It is likely to end up at DRV and given the magazine I mentioned, overturned. I really wish you would reconsider your close. You might have noticed I didn't even !vote in the AfD itself, however I did point out a number of things and took a couple of people to task for making false or misleading statements." That is the only email I sent you about the matter and not once did I ever threaten you with DRV. Please get your facts correct before making statements such as this because such mistakes can have a negative effect on others.
After you replied expressing your disagreement over the sources (and implied that I might be biased because I sometimes contribute to computing-related articles) I asked a number of other administrators (way more than two, actually) what they thought of the AfD's close because I wanted unbiased feedback to see if I was somehow totally off-track before I initiated a DRV. The feedback I got was fairly unanimous in that the close was problematic. Before I had a chance to draft a DRV however, you reverted your own close and relisted the AfD from scratch with a new listing. In no way did I ever "canvass" anyone to "talk to you" and if others did contact you directly, they did so at their own discretion and for their own reasons.
There indeed have been two AfDs, the first of which you closed (although one could also argue that the second was merely a relist of the first). The AN/I "discussion" you also mentioned wasn't really over this article or the first AfD, it was an attempt by someone to game AN/I when they were unable to bully me on their talk page. Please be more careful making these sort of blanket statements in the future because as I mentioned above such statements can cause problems for others. --Tothwolf (talk) 17:38, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- You're email was exactly like your reply here. You like to make threats without actually making them: "such statements can cause problems". There is very little way your email cannot be interpreted as anything other than a threat of DRV because I am a new administrator. This is all I'll say on M.O.P.'s talk page as I came here to offer honest advice and you don't seem interested in it. If you'd like to discuss further with me, you know where to find my talk page.--v/r - TP 17:51, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- TParis, in no way did I ever make an implied threat. While I may be a little blunt and abrasive at times (or maybe I'm just an assume good faith in that you simply misremembered the facts I outlined above when you made this statement here. It is easy to forget a few details here or there and not everyone maintains detailed notes for this sort of stuff (I do, for a number of reasons, although I didn't always).
As far as honest advice goes, this is a two-way street and I gave you my opinion as well. If you choose to ignore and discount it, so be it, but I'd suggest you be much more careful in the future and get your facts correct before you make the sort of statement you made above. Such statements can and do cause problems for other editors. Who knows, it may just be that you've not been around long enough yet to have witnessed people blocked or punished in some way because someone else didn't have their facts together. (If you do decide you want to continue this discussion, perhaps we should take this elsewhere.) --Tothwolf (talk) 18:14, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
]
Heaton Park Hebrew Congregation (2nd nomination)
Natami
Thought you might want to know
- (talk page stalker) That's just the same little ideological website which has been pushing for the "Martyrdom of St. Thomas Ball" attention since day one; no actual new coverage. --Orange Mike | Talk 14:34, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
- I guess I should also mention that the way I found it, was that someone tried submitting it to Fark.com last night. The admins did not greenlight it, so that particular submission/thread did not go to the main Fark page, appearing only to those with Totalfark accounts. The submission said something like "Wikipedia deletes burning man" (I'm not at a computer with TF access so I might not have that exactly right). It might, theoretically, based on the submission, be considered some sort of off-site canvassing (it was submitted with the asinine tag). For what its worth, the thread went uncommented, so I don't think that particular attempt garnered any support. I just wanted to drop a line in case that this was just the first drop of a large storm. If I see anything else, I'll drop a line here. Umbralcorax (talk) 15:58, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
Wiki ad
4chan raid
Thomas James Bell, new information
- (reliable sources. --Orange Mike | Talk 13:33, 30 June 2011 (UTC)]
Happy Birthday
![](//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3d/Nuvola_apps_cookie.svg/50px-Nuvola_apps_cookie.svg.png)
Just a happy Birthday message to you, Master of Puppets, from the Wikipedia Birthday Committee! Have a great day!
Monterey Bay (talk) 02:00, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
User:BillyMoses
Natami
AFD
- Your input is appreciated, though there's nothing I can do with it but take a note. If you'd like, you can weigh in at the next AfD(s), when/if they arise. Cheers, m.o.p 19:42, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
Dr Myko San – Health from Mushrooms
- I'd be happy to help! However, I'm currently away from a computer (typing this on my phone), so I'll have to check in on the 11th of July. Does that sound okay? m.o.p 15:40, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
- wp:NODEADLINE :-) LeadSongDog come howl! 15:48, 7 July 2011 (UTC)]
From a former Wikipedian
-71.234.90.0 (talk) 04:50, 8 July 2011 (UTC)
- Hey, thanks so much! I'm not sure who you are, but I really appreciate the sentiment. Hope all is well! m.o.p 20:49, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
Deletion review for Thomas James Ball
DRV comment
DRV
Could you please overturn the deletion of these files per File:Signature of Amitabh Bachchan.svg and File:Signature of Zakir Hussain.svg:
- File:Signature of Vishwanathan Anand.svg
- File:Signature of Vijay Mallya.svg
- File:Signature of Venkaiah Naidu.svg
- File:Signature of Sudeep Bandhopadhyay.svg
- File:Signature of Sonia Gandhi.svg
- File:Signature of Somnath Chatterjee.svg
- File:Signature of Ratan Tata.svg
- File:Signature of Kumar Mangalam Birla.svg
- File:Signature of Rajeev Shukla.svg
- File:Signature of Raj Babbar.svg
- File:Signature of Rahul Gandhi.svg
- File:Signature of Priyanka Vadra.svg
- File:Signature of P. T. Usha.svg
- File:Signature of Narendra Modi.svg
- File:Signature of Nandan Nilekani.svg
- File:Signature of Manish Tewari.svg
- File:Signature of Leander Paes.svg
- File:Signature of Lata Mangeshkar.svg
- File:Signature of Kumar Mangalam Birla.svg
- File:Signature of Karia Munda.svg
- File:Signature of Kapil Sibal.svg
- File:Signature of Kamal Nath.svg
- File:Signature of K. Kamraj.svg
- File:Signature of Jaya Bachchan.svg
- File:Signature of Gautam Gambhir.svg
- File:Signature of Brinda Karat.svg
- File:Signature of Bharatsinh Solanki.svg
- File:Signature of Bhairon Singh Shekhawat.svg
- File:Signature of B. K. Birla.svg
- File:Signature of Azim Premji.svg
- File:Signature of Arun Jaitely.svg
- File:Signature of Aishwarya Rai Bachchan.svg
- File:Signature of Abhishek Manu Singhvi.svg
- File:Signature of Abhishek Bachchan.svg
- File:Signature of Sting.svg
- File:Signature of Br. L. D. Lobo.svg
- File:Signature of VJ Rannvijay Singh Singha.svg
Diligent07Appears to be less than new. See User talk:Raoulduke25 where he states that this is a deliberate series of edits.
- Can you please help defend our collective effort of including the obscene middle-finger incident in the Cheney Mason article? It should be maintained in the article for public interest, etc. Please see the Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard#Cheney Mason discussion page and include your thoughts in favor of having the content remain in the interests of the public, etc
[8], [9] and even imputation that an editor has a connection with the person [10]. He has been on since April, and started off as being experienced on WP IMHO. Kindly keep an eye out please. Especially for any sign of a real "collective effort"? Such as [11]? Cheers. Collect (talk) 11:36, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
A cookie for you!
Keep up the good work defending the "Wiki" against genre warriors. Thanks for the help! talk) 17:31, 13 July 2011 (UTC)]
Hello. You have a new message at Lionelt's talk page.
Semi protection
OK, this thing with the militant atheism page is impossibleThese guys are incredible... I could dig up diffs to show you how they revert and wikilawyer even the SMALLEST attempt to move the article closer to NPOV. But that would take a long time for you to read. How about I show you this instead:
These guys are utterly without scruples. Who in their right mind would remove the NPOV dispute tag when heated arguments have been raging for weeks and NO moves whatsoever have been made to fix the article? Oh right, that would be someone in their right mind who is running a propaganda platform.
Anyway... I wanted to ask your advice on what to do. These guys are impossible to work with. Most of the other editors have given up and refuse to put this page on their watchlist. So what to do then? Request formal mediation? Articles for deletion? Something else?
Me and the other editors would like to see the page replaced with a disambiguation page... since literally ALL the content has already been covered (better) in Criticism of atheism, State atheism and New Atheism.
Obhave (talk) 13:21, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
- Hello User:Master of Puppets. I noticed this conversation and thought I might add that an NPOV policy. Obhave (talk) 13:11, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
- One more thing, m.o.p... my opponents are currently twisting your words to make it look as if you were scolding user:Mann_jess all along. Obhave (talk) 14:42, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
]
User:Jasper Deng page protection
- No worries! m.o.p 19:35, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
Is there a procedure for brutal uncollaborated editing with a destructive intent?I noticed that you recently had problems with proposed brutal editing by Peter S Strempel. Although he has been more sensible on your project in the end (possibly because of your administrator status?) he has not been so with regard to the astrology project pages to which he made a similar 'razor-promise'. Could you please see this Afd request which is one of three he made for major 'history of astrology' articles within the last hour, with a promise on another important page that any comment which is not refrences within 7 days will be removed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Babylonian_astrology
Is there anything that can be done about this officially to stop him wreaking havoc with content whilst he knows that the small group of editors providing content on these pages are already stretched to the limit trying to keep up with what needs to be done? I don't understand what drives some people to want to edit WP like this, but I think it is entriely the result of his ego-stress that when he proposed an edit for a passage, no one favoured it. Hope you can help or advise Zac Δ talk 01:15, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks! assume good faith; I believe that Peter is simply trying to help improve Wikipedia. While his methods may be lacking in some areas, he has displayed a pretty decent grasp on the policies he's trying to enforce.
- However, I agree that he shouldn't be making any changes if they're not discussed with the community first. Do you mind pulling up a few diffs of where he went against consensus? I'll approach him with your concern then. Thanks, m.o.p 03:57, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
- Actually there hasn't been any significant content dispute with Peter. He proposed a change to a section edit which wasn't a very good proposition and a few editors commented but without rancur, and I added a new section post immediately afterwards to point out the proiposed change would contradict with how the definition was given correctly at a later point in the article, outlining how I understood WP policy expected the main astrology article to pull its own content together, along with its summarised content from its daughter pages. Peter never responded to this but other editors started working in that direction immediately. Then, without further discussion or comment, Peter came back four days later to announce an intention to take his 'word razor' to all unreferenced assertions on the main astrology page, its sub-pages, and the portal page itself, to ensure his perceived disagreement was not circumvented in pages he viewed as content forks (I'm still not sure what he means by that). My response to that can be seen - a perfectly reasonable request for him to do what he felt was most productive, but consider that citation-tagging was the way to go. I also placed comments on his talk-page, which you can read if you are interested. That he erupted into a frenzy of AfD requests last night says something, I think, about his unwillingness to discuss and engage in other views. Most of his posts appear as new section declarations that don't appear to have considered the responses other editors give him.
- I've summarised this in the ANI request Dougweller started. The deletion requests were a step too far IMO, and I'm concerned that Peter would spring to such drastic measures in reaction to what he perceives to be me not allowing him to do what he wants to do. I'll be away for a few days so I'm tying up my WP activity now. That underlines my concern that he intends to take such drastic action with only one week's notice of intent. Thanks for looking into this. It would be good if something could be proposed to stop huge problems before they occur. 10:35, 22 July 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zachariel (talk • contribs
)
- One last request. I have just noticed that a related complaint, which is quite serious but has been sidetracked (deliberatly IMO) by Peter's suggestions that I have prevented him from doing what he wants, has been collapsed as "going nowehere" by an unsympathetic editor.
- "Its ben here several days and no admin has even sniffed at a block or ban - clearly you're not going to get admin action. So this should got to WP:DR or WP:RFCU if you want to take it further. I've boldly collapsed this, though I won't be surprised if someone uncollapses it"
- If you can find the time could you at least take a look at that related problem, and consider uncollapsing it, because the issues are serious and have gone beyond the point where Dispute resolution are appropriate. I will be away and have nothing more to add, but the problems identified still remain. Zac Δ talk 10:58, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
What to do?
- I've started a threat at ANI. Those AfDs are purely pointy and if no one objects I'll close them. talk) 06:11, 22 July 2011 (UTC)]
- Replied there. m.o.p 08:20, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
Talk Page on Militant Atheism - Introduction Section
- The update is appreciated, thanks very much. I've been dealing with life for the past two weeks, but I'll be back to close that discussion tonight or tomorrow. Thanks again, m.o.p 22:03, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
- Just bringing this up again, given the current state of this section. I believe the discussion will be archived automatically if not closed. I'm sorry if I sound pushy with you having a lot on your plate of late. If you would prefer, I could alert User:Fastily instead. Turnsalso (talk) 16:55, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
ITN
- I knew that tab I closed had unfinished business on it... thanks. 2008 University of Central Arkansas shootings is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.
The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2008 University of Central Arkansas shootings(2nd nomination) until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on good quality evidence, and our policies and guidelines.
Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article.
talk 14:00, 1 September 2011 (UTC)]
Hey
- Done! Both your userpage and the transcluded page are protected. Cheers, « ₣M₣ » 04:09, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Restored. m.o.p 05:21, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
]
User talk:Joshua the Independent
- My mistake - my block script auto-filled the edit summary. The block was issued due to the user's newfound will to disrupt Wikipedia intentionally. Their previous contributions are welcome, but this behaviour necessitates administrative action. m.o.p 21:52, 13 September 2011 (UTC)
Say hi to your imaginary girlfriend for me
- Well, I do love getting hate mail. Thanks for the laugh! Cheers, m.o.p 05:17, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
...further to the above lovely note, I weighed in on Calabe's talk page - there appears to be more confusion here than at first glance. bou·le·var·dier (talk) 05:19, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
Sorry to drop by again, but Silentsizzlingsausage (talk · contribs) would appear to be a duck. bou·le·var·dier (talk) 05:31, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
- No, it's not an issue! Thanks for the note, blocked. Cheers, WP:SPI. Thanks again, m.o.p 06:13, 14 September 2011 (UTC)]
I have to admit ...
- See the above section. The link is apparently a very subtle spam link that Calabe is removing, and socks are springing up to revert him. Swarm u / t 10:20, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
Moderation
- Alright, I'll make my way back. Thanks for letting me know! m.o.p 05:18, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
User:12.139.96.228
- To be honest, this case is perplexing. Half of this user's edits are constructive (mostly sourced), the other half aren't sourced - and the user won't reply to anybody. I'm also too busy to go through every edit and confirm whether or not it's good. I forgot about this for a while - I'll think about it tonight and figure something out for tomorrow. Thanks for reminding me! m.o.p 05:18, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
Whoops
- Whoops! Must not have been looking when I ran my block script. Thanks for letting me know, I've reblocked them for a far shorter (technically, an infinitely shorter) time. Cheers, m.o.p 22:58, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
Ashleyleggat404
- You're fully right in that the blanking policy covers indefinite blocks. I've removed the user's talk page rights as a result. Thanks again! m.o.p 00:28, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkback
Moderation
- If you look into this please consider whether Anupam's actions on the talk page and the entry itself are violations of WP:OWN. He's been driving off those he disagrees with by bludgening them to death with argument and heavily policing the entry claiming that there is a consensus written in stone despite many dissenting voices. Others have taken to simply calling him "the article's owner." I have had enough of this behavior personally and left him a message about it on his talk page. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:52, 20 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Dear User:Master of Puppets, the above user has misrepresented the occurrences at the article. I started another Introduction discussion at the article's talk page but User:Griswaldo has chosen to edit war over a second NPOV tag, despite the fact that one already exists in the article. He has done so despite the fact that the Introduction is being discussed in a peaceful manner at the talk page, in violation of your injunction: "We've only got consensus on this proposed versions (and loose consensus at that) - please do not attempt to subvert said consensus by making undiscussed changes." I have posted a message on his talk page about this behaviour. Nevertheless, I also do not wish to argue with the user personally and would prefer if you could go back to moderating the discussion between the two parties at the talk page. Thanks for taking the time to read this message. With regards, AnupamTalk 20:58, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- His "injunction?" Adding a neutrality tag to a specific sentence which an editor disputes the neutrality of is hardly "subverting the consensus by making undiscussed changes." Please stop wikilawyering to get your way. There is a growing consensus against your position regarding this article in general as well, despite your aggressive policing of the entry and the talk page. See ]
- I just thought that I would mention that User:Griswaldo, after seeing this message, just now decided to comment in the discussion rather than edit war against consensus further. Thanks for taking the time to read this message. With regards, AnupamTalk 21:51, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- "Edit war against consensus further?" My comment there has nothing to do with your message here. I've made three total edits to this entry ever. One was a copy edit in June, another was reverting an IP vandal, and the third was the revert of your Ownership edit. Please do not insinuate that I'm a edit warrior on this page. It is disingenuous.Griswaldo (talk) 22:08, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Thank you all for approaching me with your concerns.
- Obviously, I do not support Anupam - this is because I'm remaining a neutral third party, and, therefore, can't take sides. However, Griswaldo: please keep in mind that I did ask for all discussion to take place on the talk page. Why not just add your complaints to the talk page? It would have been much easier to discuss.
- I do agree that adding a NPOV tag, while slightly redundant, isn't horrible, but your intent seems to have been to stir discussion on that particular section, discussion that would be much more appropriate on the talk page.
- As for your and Snalwibma's concerns of Anupam trying to 'own' the article, I'm curious as to what you two mean; what 'delusions'?
- Also, Griswaldo, I don't think Anupam meant to insinuate you are an edit warrior (though this is just my take) - rather, they wanted to add the note that you've weighed in on discussion. m.o.p 22:10, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- your intent seems to have been to stir discussion on that particular section - No that's incorrect. I didn't add this tag, I simply reverted Anupam's attempt to own the page when he removed it. I agreed with JimWae's addition of the tag and found Anupam's removal to be unwarranted and a display of ownership.Griswaldo (talk) 22:16, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Note that, for all intents and purposes, reverting somebody is adding whatever is included in your edit, regardless of who put it there first. You revert a removal, you're agreeing with the edition you're reverting to - simple.
- And, if you agreed with JimWae, then we go back to what I was saying earlier - say so on the talk page. Two of you agree? Great! That's closer to consensus. But it means nothing if you express your support by reverting removals.
- Again, as I've asked multiple times, please stop saying that Anupam is owning anything without giving me evidence of it first. m.o.p 22:22, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Dear User:Master of Puppets, thank you for your reply to all of us. The reason User:Snalwibma stated that I was attempting to "own" the article was because I reverted an undiscussed removal from the article, which not only myself, but two other users objected to. In fact, two anonymous IP Addresses also reverted User:Snalwibma. I was open to compromise on the issue and stated that I would accept User:Turnsalso's compromise on the issue. I kindly request you to look at that discussion yourself and get an honest reading of it. Also, the only reason I removed the second NPOV tag was because there was already one present, which I did not remove. I only reverted the addition of a second NPOV tag once and even explained myself on the talk page. When I went to the talk page, I found rude accusations and an anti-collaborative spirit, despite the fact that I have been nothing but polite. I hope this helps. With regards, AnupamTalk 22:25, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry - I know I should not rise to the bait, but I have to object to the comment "The reason User:Snalwibma stated that I was attempting to 'own' the article was because I reverted an undiscussed removal ..." How dare Anupam presume to know what is in my mind! The reason I describe Anupam's attitude to the article as one of ownership is because that is how s/he behaves - "policing" every edit, pronouncing on whether s/he "accepts" or "rejects" it, peremptorily reverting anything s/he does not like, without discussion, presuming to know others' motives, and judging them as fit/unfit to contribute to the article. This has been going on for weeks, if not months. It is impossible to discuss the content of the article, let alone improve the text, because everything is filtered through the approval/disapproval of the article's self-appointed guardian, Anupam. tendentious or disruptive when they bring up certain issues, even when they are clearly in the majority. That is not collaborative. I stopped editing the article heavily because of those issues. I don't have any delusions that my opinion is worth more than anyone else's here, but I would think that the large number of established, experienced editors who are all saying there's a problem, would indicate something. — Jess· Δ♥ 19:45, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
Please reconsider your full protection of Militant atheist
- In case you didn't notice, I asked that people think twice about pointing fingers at each other. If you'd like to start a sockpuppetry investigation, let me know, and we can take that avenue - however, don't accuse other editors of ownership without substance. If you think Anupam is trying to own things, give me something. Diffs, edits, anything. I'll check it out for you, but right now, baseless accusations are not what I'm looking for.
- Also, notice that I protected the article with your edit being the last one. How is that validating the very person you've been reverting?
- The protection will stay until consensus is reached. m.o.p 22:19, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Because protection is what he wants quite clearly. He's stalling conversation and shouting down people on the talk page, where, if you have a look, you'll see he's clearly in the minority. Because of your "injunction" as he calls it, he also claims that no matter how many people agree with a certain change it is illegitimate. I'll be happy to gather some diffs, but my first message to you above was to please look into the situation carefully before acting on it. Did you do that and come to the conclusion that I'm wrong or did you not head that request? Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:29, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Yes, I did heed your request. I don't see any ownership behaviour from Anupam, though, being involved in multiple disputes, I didn't have the time to read every last word on the page, so you're free to provide evidence. However, from what I can see, Anupam's last proposal was supported by the majority - not to count (and I don't mean to imply that I decide where consensus lies by looking at pure numbers), but from looking at pure supports versus opposes, eight people (nine including Anupam) support while four oppose. How does that make Anupam's views a minority? m.o.p 22:37, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- It depends on what view you are talking about. The current RFC on the introduction is something that most people don't even want to engage because most people think this very entry should be split up and integrated into other entries. I reluctantly engaged the RfC just now myself. The last time the more serious question about the entry was asked, several of the new commentators were not around, and there was "no consensus" found because the opposing side was chalk full of SPAs and editors with a view that is outright hostile to atheism (which is a legitimate view to hold, but it is a minority view). Let me find you some diffs.Griswaldo (talk) 22:43, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- User:Griswaldo, that is exactly the issue: you do not want to collaborate with other users on the talk page, which is why you were reluctant to participate in the current RfC. Moreover, there were several SPA's on the side of the opposition as well, including WP:NPOV. In addition, the split was again recently discussed and the specific case to do so was refuted by several editors. As such, there was no consensus for it. I hope this helps. With regards, AnupamTalk 22:52, 20 September 2011 (UTC)]
- No. You are trying to write an article that violates WP:SYNTH because it conflates New Atheism with oppressive communist regimes and their histories of violence. That's hardly NPOV. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:59, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
Hi m.o.p., as someone who occasionally looks at that page (and then washes my hands), I just want to compliment you as having done the right thing in full protecting. By way of unsolicited advice to the involved editors, the best thing they could do is to allow The Wrong Version to sit there a good long time, and devote their energy to other things. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:54, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
]
Yes, please reconsider your full protection of
WP:RS—deserve protection against misinformed reverts. Thanks Geremia (talk) 16:12, 22 September 2011 (UTC)]
Diffs of
- I'm not really sure where the ownership is here; nowhere in our policies is it stated that a user can't promote their RFC on the subject talk page. If it's ongoing and they'd like to move it to the forefront, what's wrong with that? More so, some of your summaries seem inaccurate - in that last diff, you state that Anupam is removing images, yet I only see Anupam adding an image (the peace dove that's at the top of the page). Also, you use repeating examples. m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Well clearly the last diff was wrong. Thanks for the vote of confidence. There are no repeat examples nor inaccurate summaries, just a mistaken copy paste of the second to last diff to the last position as well. I have fixed it. Cheers.
- Using "consensus claims from one RfC to reject changes made to article content
- Same as above. Using the "consensus" bludgeon to get his way. Please note that clearly we ought to edit by consensus, but this consensus is highly disputed, and IMO not there in the first place. The real problem is the way in which Anupam decides to use it like a trump card to remove changes he doesn't like. Ask yourself if all changes post "consensus" have been removed or just the ones Anupam decided he wanted removed.
Master of Puppets do you need more diffs or is this enough?Griswaldo (talk) 23:31, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Well I need more diffs because your "evidence" so far looks like a desperate attempt to incriminate an editor who has been very successful in persuading his colleagues to adopt his proposals. Anupam has presented his proposals, argued the merits and persuaded many editors. Anything you want to tell us about why you're having difficulty doing likewise? – Lionel (talk) 06:02, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- I don't see this is as conclusive evidence, either. And, it should be said - if people are editing against established consensus, then people are free to re-evaluate consensus, but edit-warring against it doesn't make much sense. m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- If not ownership then what is this - [28], [29], [30]? He removes two RfCs started by another editor, and revolving around the question that many of us actually find to be the fundamental question to answer regarding the entry. Then he edit wars to keep these RfCs off the page, claiming again to have some sort of authority stemming from your prior actions. If you aren't willing to do something here I'm going to another administrator and I'm going to ask for your initial "consensus," your strong arm administrating, and your lack of action here to be reviewed as well. Thanks.Griswaldo (talk) 17:08, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Anupam has already apologized for reverting those RfC additions, and we've moved past it. He also didn't claim to have administrative authority, but was waiting for my approval. We've cleared this up, it's not an issue. So no, I'm not going to take any action (as I've said here and on ANI). Now, if you'd like to threaten me and tell me that, since I'm not cooperating with your wills, you'll go to another administrator, that's fine - as I've said, you can seek outside opinions - but remember to keep a cool head, because borderline threats are not appreciated. m.o.p 21:49, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- It was not a threat, "borderline" or otherwise. You are conveniently ignoring a growing number of voices who are all saying the same thing - there is an ownership problem here. The deletion issue has not been "cleared up" as far as I'm concerned. Whenever it is mentioned Anupam insists that he did not "unilaterally" delete the RfCs from the page, which is a blatant distortion, since that is exactly what he did. He continues to act as a policeman at the page, and yes he does continue to cite your authority. Did you bother to read the many diffs I posted above in the second two sections? I will quote three random examples from those I provided for you if you want.
- When he first deleted the two RfCs he wrote: "rv - see discussion with reviewing administrator; approval needed to start another RfC while one is already occurring."
- When he deleted a fact tag that JimWae put into the lede: "rv excessive tagging per talk; tag is already extant in header; do not subvert previous consensus but gain consensus for potential additions per administrative notice"
- When he rejected another recent change to the entry: "accepted edits by User:Jkhwiki; rv removal of longstanding referenced content - see discussion on talk page and gain consensus for action per administrative injunction"
- In talk page comments and in edit summaries he consistently does the same thing. He refers to your authority, either directly or indirectly through your "notice" or your "injunction" as he likes to call it. I never said the claimed to have administrative authority, I said that he's using your authority, by way of your comments, such as the closure of the AfD to bully people. Do you deny that he citing your comments, because if you do then I must have fabricated those quotes. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:32, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
If you say "If you don't do A, then I'm going to go and do B", that's a threat. Anyway, that's not the issue - we've already covered all the issues with the RfC reverting, and Anupam won't do it again. Why keep raising hell over it?
We've already covered everything you bring up. And no, I'm not denying anything. I'm just saying this, and it's very simple: I don't think there has been any blatant ownership here. That's my judgment. If you disagree, again, feel free to raise this with another administrator or on ANI. m.o.p 23:12, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Regarding the new RFC, I still think there has not passed yet too much time since the last discussion about splitting the article. As far as I knew, repeating these sorts of debates (like splitting, deleting, renaming) before a larger amount of time has passed (like 6 months) is usually discouraged. And as others have also argued earlier, even if having multiple RFCs is possible, it's not very useful, and the new RFC seems to discourage further discussion about improving the lead introduction. So preventing multiple RFCs (and also a RFC about an issue debated not too long ago) does not look to me like evidence of bad faith intentions. Cody7777777 (talk) 21:37, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Cody, would you mind linking me to the previous RfC on splitting? m.o.p 21:49, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- The previous attempt to split the article can be found here. Cody7777777 (talk) 21:55, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Response
Yes, it does. Thanks, m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Dear User:Master of Puppets, I just noticed that User:Binksternet started another RfC while a current one is occurring. Is this appropriate? I reverted the addition motioning for one until your response is confirmed. If it is acceptable, then I apologize and will revert my edit. I look forward to your response. With regards, AnupamTalk 15:14, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'll form my reply on ANI. m.o.p 17:12, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- When you do please take into account my comment just above, regarding Anupam's edit warring to remove talk page comments (namely these RfCs) posted by others on the talk page. If you still don't think this is WP:OWN then clearly other administrators are needed here.Griswaldo (talk) 17:15, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Dear User:Griswaldo, how is going to a neutral mediator to address the issue owning the article? I acknowledge that the article is in dispute and as a result, I am asking an administrator for advice in this matter, NOT handling things on my own, as you have done by edit warring. Your WP:OWN allegations have not only been dismissed by this administrator, but by several other users, including, User:Lionelt, User:Cody7777777 and User:NYyankees51. Thanks, AnupamTalk 17:27, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- In reply to Griswaldo: reverting the RfCs was a mistake, but we've cleared that up now. As Anupam has stated at ANI, the intent was not to discourage discussion. If you think my judgment is compromised, you're welcome to seek another administrator's input. m.o.p 21:04, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- And as further evidence of WP:OWN, see this. Anupam adds a comment to everything that anyone else says, as if he/she is the owner of the article and everyone else is a subordinate contributor. This particular instance is pretty benign (although it clutters up the talk page with an unnecessary comment that merely says "I agree"), but I do think that Anupam at least needs to learn how to avoid giving the appearance of thinking he/she owns the article, and to desist from chipping in and saying the same thing over and over again, which almost makes meaningful discussion impossible! SNALWIBMA ( talk - contribs ) 17:31, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- While the input is appreciated, as I've said before, making allegations of ownership without hard evidence isn't going to get us anywhere. Anupam is not stopping others from discussing changes or forming consensus, and that's all that matters - refactoring the talk page or commenting on an issue is not against policy, and I'm not going to tell someone to stop editing because it "looks" like they're doing something wrong. As said above, you're welcome to request another administrator's insight if you wish. m.o.p 21:04, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
COIHi
you've helped me out before, with a conflict of interest problem, so having much more experience than me on wikipedia, I thought I would be bold enough to ask again for help.
Similar problem to last, User_talk:Hobbycraft is editing the HOBBYCRAFT article and making changes that aren't citably right. I think the user name suggest and history suggests a conflict of interest case.
Can you please, speak to them addressing this issue.
Thank you very much for your help.
Markcoulter50 (talk) 22:27, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
- I've blocked that user for username violations. Thanks a lot for letting me know! Keep up the great work, m.o.p 23:00, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkbackcausa sui (talk) 18:47, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Hello. You have a new message at causa sui's talk page. causa sui (talk) 20:54, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Problematic editing on militant atheism
- I hope it's not considered defamatory to repeat the final line: "I merely present the diffs above, and let others draw their own conclusions. Is this a duck? Does it quack? You decide.". Unfortunately, the concerned community no longer has that opportunity. What did you decide on their behalf? Does this duck quack, or not? bobrayner (talk) 15:42, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- It's not your wording, it's the very idea of it. Going to what's allegorically a public place and shouting, "Hey, everybody, this man is a criminal!" is one step below blatantly forming a lynch mob. As I've said, I have no problem with your wording or evidence, just your location of choice. Wikipedia is not, unfortunately, a democracy - letting others draw their conclusions and voice their opinions is not how a sockpuppet investigation works.
- So yes, please don't go restoring any of that section. We're not discussing editors, we're discussing the content they produce. Anything else has a sub-board to deal with it (like WP:SPI).
- Hopefully that clears things up! I'll be happy to answer any more questions should you have them. Cheers, m.o.p 15:48, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Hello User:Bobrayner, I noticed the section you created on the militant atheism talk page. If you do feel the way you do about User:Turnsalso and the anonymous IP Addresses, you can take this up with WP:SPI. Thanks, AnupamTalk 15:52, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
Are you kidding my MoP? Above your write: Going to what's allegorically a public place and shouting, "Hey, everybody, this man is a criminal!" is one step below blatantly forming a lynch mob. AND We're not discussing editors, we're discussing the content they produce. Yet you call this edit by Lionelt "good faith," at WQA? MoP, I would not ask you to agree with me or to like me, but can I please ask you not to insult me with these double standards.Griswaldo (talk) 16:18, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
]
- Griswaldo, I mean no offense when I say this, but I'd appreciate it if you stayed out of discussions which didn't involve you. Also, please don't put words in my mouth. Thanks, m.o.p 16:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I have not put words in your mouth. You said that you would assume good faith about Lionel. If you "assume good faith" it means you assume his edits were in "good faith." If you did not intend that meaning I suggest you reconsider what you wrote. Also, if you want me to "stay out of discussion which don't involve me" then I suggest your first order of business should be to do the same thing yourself. You decided to post at WQA, when there was no mention of you or anything you've done in that thread. Once again, I expect people not to practice double standards. So as long as you cannot show me that you will treat me as you ask to be treated yourself, I will not oblige you. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:21, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Please stop bickering. I'm not quite sure what you're trying to accomplish here. I've already explained what I meant when I said assuming good faith, but I'll explain again: I assumed that Lionelt was not hounding or deliberately haranguing you. I did not say, at any point, that his edit content was good faith, and I've told him not to edit like that again. So please stop accusing me of saying things I haven't said.
- Also, I posted in WQA because, as a mediator in this case and as an administrator, it's my duty to weigh in on administrative noticeboards, especially when the case is an ongoing discussion I've been participating in for three months. It is not your duty to weigh in on discussions on my talk page that don't concern you. I hope the distinction is clear here. m.o.p 20:33, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I think you are confused about something. Content is never good faith. "Editing in good faith" and "good faith edits" refers to the intent of the editor always. It has nothing to do with content. My assumption that you also felt the edits were appropriate comes from the fact that you did not say they weren't appropriate and clearly feel that his intentions were good. If you'd like to set the record straight on that issue you still can. I've asked you twice now to discuss the actual edits that are the focal point of the thread. Also, I moved the thread to ANI, per the suggestion of the editor who marked it "resolved."Griswaldo (talk) 20:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- See Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#User:Lionelt_--_following_my_past_edits_to_drum_up_support_against_me. FYI, I copy pasted the entire discussion because both you and Collect were critical of my initial post and I thought it was the right thing to do to preserve that criticism in the record of the conversation. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:43, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- In reply to your first paragraph: I'm going to give up now, as it seems you're misunderstanding most of what I type, but you're the one who stated that the content was not good faith (as you said, not appropriate), and I agreed - I referred to his intent in replying to you, and said that I assumed good faith in his motives, not his replies. I can't really say that in a clearer way, so my apologies if it's hard to understand. Also, as I've already said, I've left a message for Lionelt about his edits, so clearly I do not feel they're appropriate. m.o.p 20:57, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I, too, find these double standards vexing.
- Which diff is defamatory?
- I had hitherto thought that people on the article talkpage might like to be aware of potential problems with votestacking on the article talkpage (and 3rr evasion, of course). Would it be permitted to add a link to that list of diffs when it's in a different place, or would you consider that defamatory too? bobrayner (talk) 16:23, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- As I said, the information is not defamatory, but the way it's presented is - we have specific processes available to pursue should one feel there are sockpuppets about. However, calling someone out with the intent of informing the community is overstepping your authority and damaging to the accused's character. Also, there's no way a community discussion about whether or not one editor is a sockpuppet can end in anything other than a sockpuppet investigation anyway.
- So, in closing, please don't bring issues like this to the talk page. If you're concerned about votestacking, take it to the appropriate venue - if your concerns are validated, we'll take measures against said puppets. Cheers, m.o.p 16:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I am very disappointed that it's no longer permissible to raise problems with article-editing on the article talkpage. Previous concerns about sockpuppetry were simply ignored; the difference this time is that it's backed by lots of diffs.
- I'm fairly confident that the people concerned have sufficient technical nous to make checkuser draw a blank. And, let's be entirely honest, within minutes of me creating an SPI, an admin of the right persuasion will be getting an email suggesting that an SPI needs their attention. And SPI does not see offsite coordination by a facebook group &c. Finally, any null result at SPI will be used at the article in much the same way as previous administrative decisions have been. So, I do not believe that an SPI will improve either the article, or the encyclopædia as a whole. bobrayner (talk) 17:08, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- If you don't think the pre-existing methods set in place for situations like this are sufficient, you can always raise that concern at the village pump or suggest a policy revision - however, SPI is the venue for these requests, and the only venue. The talk page can not substitute. m.o.p 17:10, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
76.228.226.122Thank you for blocking the anonymous user, who is being counterproductive and rude. (although I think the block should have been one week, but I guess ok at least)
Can you also please try to hide the edit summaries of these edits if possible?
This and
this
Thanks and regards, talk 05:04, 26 September 2011 (UTC)]
- I'll extend the block if this behaviour continues after the block period is over.
- As for the edit summaries, those don't warrant hiding - I apologize for their content, but they don't meet the criteria of what I should remove. It's best just to ignore them for now. Cheers, m.o.p 05:13, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
- Okay, good to know, if I did nothing wrong, no permanent block will be enforced. The IP does not volunteer on WP as an admin and so the disproportionately out of line comments and threats of his should be ignored. --talk 05:19, 26 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Sounds good. We only hide extremely offensive revisions; milder ones stay in the edit history. Thanks again for bringing this to our attention! Cheers, m.o.p 05:31, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
Email
Jasper Deng (talk) 05:29, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
- Reading. talk) 06:00, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Bad Girls Club
- I've blocked Junebea for 2 days for disregarding warnings. m.o.p 20:30, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks for helping :) Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 21:06, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkback
- And again.Griswaldo (talk) 04:24, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
- And again ... but maybe the last. You can settle this question once and for all. See the talk page.Griswaldo (talk) 06:09, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'm sure I'm not alone in wanting to hear your replies to the last responses posed to you at that page. IMO, I don't know why you went down the road you did, but as far as I can tell you're blatantly misrepesenting facts about your own actions when people are brining concerns to you. You might think that since you closed the RfC the matter is settled, but it is not. You're actions have not made my life any more pleasant in the last few days vis-a-vis trying to deal with Anupam's disruption and I think you owe us all answers. So please revisit this thread and deal with the open questions. Thanks.Griswaldo (talk) 02:19, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
- I invite you to stop asking the same question again and again. This would be appreciated. Thanks, m.o.p 02:33, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Block question
- No, I just block obviously bad-faith accounts on sight. Advertising/spam accounts fall under that category. m.o.p 00:37, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Thanks
- Thank you. I've unlocked the article for whatever may come. If I'm needed again, feel free to let me know. Thanks for the kind words again, m.o.p 05:12, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
reminder
- We're still waiting to see if the user understands COI policy (per Ed's question). I'll prod the user and see if they'll answer. talk) 19:20, 30 September 2011 (UTC)]
Nextel logo deleted
- Mmm, good point. What's the link to the logo in question? m.o.p 01:33, 2 October 2011 (UTC)
Support of Sage City SymphonyYou deleted this page before I had a chance to go back in and add the stuff that you wanted to see, including the links within Wikipedia to important composers such as Lou Callabro (who started this orchestra and cites it in his Wikipedia page) and Susan Hurley whose work we premiered (SC is also mentioned in her Wikipedia entry). (Let alone links about the works we have performed.) And we have a web site at www.sagecitysymphony.org, have existed for over 35 yrs and are a significant cultural resource in the Bennington area such that we receive grants from local, statewide and national foundations.
I broke my wrist last weekend and am doing one-handed pecking so it'll take me a few days to get that loaded in. We are going out for a bit now, but I would appreciate your undeleting the page so that I don't have to re-invent the starting part when I go back in tomorrow to add links. Or delete it entirely so that I can start fresh - at this point either would work as long as I can start some serious work on it tomorrow. I am the webmaster by the way, so I do have access to content and more links.
Thank you, Celia Murray — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.228.127.119 (talk) 14:22, 1 October 2011 (UTC)
- It looks like fixed everything up. Best of luck, m.o.p 01:35, 2 October 2011 (UTC)]
Reply on Deterence's talk page
MA
After the beating you took you deserve a cold one--on me! Thanks for being fair and balanced – Lionel (talk) 03:55, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
- Hey, thanks! Glad to help out. :) m.o.p 03:56, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
Deletion of Mau5trap Recordings
--neocharles (talk) 07:33, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Existence does not equal notability - the subject has to be notable to get a Wikipedia page. m.o.p 12:05, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
Questoin re: AIV
- Addendum, actually, I read it very clearly in WP:VANDNOT: "Uploading or using material on Wikipedia in violation of Wikipedia's copyright policies is prohibited, but is not vandalism unless the user does so maliciously or fails to heed warnings." So if a person fails to heed warnings it is vandalism. My mistake here was that I only warned once. --Muhandes (talk) 12:29, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Eh, technically it is vandalism, but the user seems to be trying to improve the Wikipedia - that desire to help is misplaced in this case, as they seem to think that using copyrighted content is actually better. Weird. For most cases, yes, you should report copyvio to AIV - as long as they've been warned sufficiently. m.o.p 12:42, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- OK, he now did it again and the time stamp is after your last warning. Is it vandalism now? --Muhandes (talk) 12:32, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Yeah, if they're outright ignoring warnings. I've blocked for three days. m.o.p 12:40, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
Classmusic
- Oh, I know. But if somebody's lied to my face about using another account - and to other editors working on the article - I'm not about to let them go without a repercussion or two. I'd like Almost-instinct and Voceditnore to look over the article and fix up anything shifty. Also, I'd like Classmusic to respond to my warning, instead of blanking it and ignoring like they have to the above-named editors.
- So, in short, I know that COI doesn't bar editing, but it's enough of a concern that, given the user's recent behaviour, I'll stop them from doing anything until we've figured things out. This isn't too rouge-y, is it? I didn't hear that. Perhaps he is unaware of the sockpuppet investigation findings. Anyhow it seems that DeltaQuad has also blocked the Classmusic account. I left a note on his page about using the unblock template, but re-iterated that he needs to read the COI and Autobiography guidelines and stick to them scrupulously, if he gets unblocked. In the Opera and Classical Music WikiProjects, we get a lot of articles for performers, ensembles, etc. created by their agents and PR people, and often themselves. In my experience, the best I can hope for after one of these tussles is that they'll edit their article according to the guidelines in future. I have yet to find a single one who has ever contributed anything else to Wikipedia. Their only interest in the project is as a PR tool. Having said that, at least it results (after much red-pencilling from other editors) in one new article on a notable subject that we didn't have before and in a small way redresses the pop culture systemic bias here. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 13:40, 5 October 2011 (UTC)]
Danish election
- Never mind, it's been pulled by another admin. All the best, Jenks24 (talk) 11:03, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry about that! I was busy all day and didn't get your message until now. Thanks for letting me know, though! Cheers, m.o.p 19:51, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
3RRHey there! :)
Well WP:CRYSTAL has wined down, however, there's currently a
The Bad Girls Club (season 7). I have notified the two users [32], [33]. The evidence can be found here. They are having an edit-conflict on how the "Duration of cast" should be presented. Since there's no rules regarding anything like that, and it was made up about a year ago, I couldn't warned them to stop their e/c with anything except the 3RR rule. Maybe they need an admin to tell them to stop, so that's why I came to you :) Thanks, Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 01:17, 6 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Temporary page protection requested. Calabe1992 (talk) 01:29, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
ATTENTION PLEASE
New Message on my talk page!
Help possible need
Wikipedia Ambassador Program is looking for new Online AmbassadorsHi! Since you've been identified as an Awesome Wikipedian, I wanted to let you know about the Online Ambassador. We're looking for friendly Wikipedians who are good at reviewing articles and giving feedback to serve as mentors for students who are assigned to write for Wikipedia in their classes.
If you're interested, I encourage you to take a look at the Online Ambassador guidelines; the "mentorship process" describes roughly what will be expected of mentors during the current term, which started in January and goes through early May. If that's something you want to do, please apply!
You can find instructions for applying at WP:ONLINE.
I hope to hear from you soon.--Sage Ross - Online Facilitator, Wikimedia Foundation (talk) 19:27, 8 February 2011 (UTC)
talk page.
- See a log of files removed today here.
- Shut off the bot here.
- Report errors here.
Thank you, -- DASHBot (talk) 05:10, 9 February 2011 (UTC)
Mail
00:05, 10 February 2011 (UTC)
Wait
- How was this a copy-paste move? It was a recreation of a deleted article. Sasata (talk) 23:46, 10 February 2011 (UTC)
- Which was, to my knowledge, notabilified. Is that a word? m.o.p 01:05, 11 February 2011 (UTC)
:D![](//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/29/Choco_chip_cookie_bitten.jpg/100px-Choco_chip_cookie_bitten.jpg)
CharlieEchoTango has eaten your {{cookie}}! The cookie made them happy and they'd like to give you a great big hug for donating it. Spread the WikiLove by giving out more {{cookie}}s, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend. Thanks again!
Spread the goodness of cookies by adding {{subst:cookie}} to someone's talk page with a friendly message, or eat a cookie with {{subst:munch}}!
[[CharlieEchoTango]] 01:38, 11 February 2011 (UTC)
Blanking of material at The Deputy
- MOP, how would you feel about one month of full protection for this article? I see that Ekwos has stopped by to remove the section again. The dispute about the KGB connection has been running for almost a year now. Full protection could motivate people to discuss the issue, and perhaps create an RfC. Thanks EdJohnston (talk) 20:32, 11 February 2011 (UTC)
- One month of pending changes is better, I think. I don't like limiting legitimate editors, but this will disallow further warring from disrupting the 'pedia. m.o.p 07:10, 12 February 2011 (UTC)
Deletion of Gabriel Weinberg
- It wasn't my decision to delete the article. We had clear community consensus. Please stop taking thins personally. m.o.p 07:10, 12 February 2011 (UTC)
Edit summariesActually user:Zjarriretues is removing a reliable source [[1]] that mentions his ethnicity and places another that's more suitable to his national standarts. Although the source Zjarri. prefers is also 'rs' he did not disagree in the article's talkpage with my version [[2]].
Unfortunately when a couple of months passed you prefered to make his revert per
wp:ninja, without explaining the reason of this (very) delayed revert.Alexikoua (talk) 17:03, 14 February 2011 (UTC)]
I reverted myself, however, an explanation is needed in the talkpage by the user since he agreed in the past with the version I've presented on Aug..Alexikoua (talk) 17:14, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
Your friend the the IP
sent you an email
- One of your userboxes says you're only 17! I would have sworn you were older than that! ; ) --Kenatipo speak! 23:40, 16 February 2011 (UTC)
Godzilla
- I feel that it doesn't. If you check our crystal ball policy, you'll notice that it says, "It is appropriate to report discussion and arguments about the prospects for success of future proposals and projects or whether some development will occur, if discussion is properly referenced." That policy is meant to stop unsourced conjecture and speculation by editors, so I think we're fine in this case. The Hobbit film project with all its troubles). Here, with Godzilla, the reports are extremely normal. The studio announces its plans for a film, and a director is attached for it (which is not a guarantee). That's what it boils down to, and it's not enough to be more than a news source. Erik (talk | contribs) 16:11, 17 February 2011 (UTC)
- I appreciate that you've explained your position to me (though I did read your points in the AFD thread) but I can't delve into stuff like this. If you're not happy with my close, you're fully welcome to ask another administrator or even open another AFD. m.o.p 16:15, 17 February 2011 (UTC)
- I won't do anything for now. I would just prefer to keep such articles a rarity. Following films for some time, a lot of people tend to create an article about a film the moment it is announced (or the moment something new happens, like a new director). I do like to report discussion (did so at Concrete Island) but it's more a matter of where for me, to ensure topics of enduring notability. I did want to ask, do you think a merge discussion in general would be more beneficial? I feel like an AFD like that foments a keep-or-delete mentality that overrides the in-between solution of reporting discussion under a broader article until we can be near certain a film will exist. Erik (talk | contribs) 16:21, 17 February 2011 (UTC)
- A merge discussion would be great; I could weigh in and such. Feel free to open one up if you'd like to. m.o.p 23:03, 17 February 2011 (UTC)
]
Please respond
userspace
Talkback 16:14, 19 February 2011 (UTC)
Protect my talk page
- Lately, this IP also misused the edit war template on my talk page.Jasper Deng (talk) 00:37, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
Block an IP
E-Mail
nice guyhiii master of puppets,
ok do u know the movie Twilght saga ?
rply me back i want 2 talk 2 u a lot because i like ur pesonalty.BY
talk) 11:58, 28 April 2011 (UTC)]
File source problem with File:MoPuppetarmy.pngThank you for uploading File:MoPuppetarmy.png. I noticed that the file's description page currently doesn't specify who created the content, so the copyright status is unclear. If you did not create this file yourself, you will need to specify the owner of the copyright. If you obtained it from a website, please add a link to the website from which it was taken, together with a brief restatement of that website's terms of use of its content. However, if the copyright holder is a party unaffiliated from the website's publisher, that copyright should also be acknowledged.
If you have uploaded other files, consider verifying that you have specified sources for those files as well. You can find a list of files you have created in your upload log. Unsourced and untagged images may be deleted one week after they have been tagged per Wikipedia's criteria for speedy deletion, F4. If the image is copyrighted and non-free, the image will be deleted 48 hours after 11:44, 11 May 2011 (UTC) per speedy deletion criterion F7. If the file is already gone, you can still make a request for undeletion and ask for a chance to fix the problem. You may wish to read the Wikipedia's image use policy. If you have any questions or are in need of assistance please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. Magog the Ogre (talk) 11:44, 11 May 2011 (UTC)
The Deputy
- Thanks for your reply. My concern was not that Jayjg indicated he would rewrite and did not do so, but that he had agreed to allow more of the disputed section in the article rather than a dismissive sentence or two, but when editors began to delete the entire section based on frivolous reasons, he supported it. It appears now that we have, or are in the process of reaching a resolution. The section is now in the article, reduced substantially to account of Jayjg's concers about undue weight. Mamalujo (talk) 18:40, 27 May 2011 (UTC)
Carla Rushing page deletion
Any further discussion of Sarah Palin will result in a warning, and then a temporary block. Thank you!Hmmm, that might be just a tad excessive. We don't want to suppress all discussion, because that's when the pressure has nowhere to go, and people will go and meatball:ExpandScope.
Since scope is already expanded to international media, forcing scope to expand further might be a bit of a Bad Idea (tm). I recommend Not Going There.
If we're really intent on keeping discussions off of WP, we can always create a wikinews article, and link to the "discuss this article" page.
However, at the moment, people seem to be keeping it down to a dull roar anyway.
--Kim Bruning (talk) 22:44, 6 June 2011 (UTC)
- I think you caught my side point, but I'd like to stress the part I'm trying to tell you to watch out for!
- Long term empirical experience shows that attempts to curtail discussion on wikipedia will not slow down the internet discussion elsewhere (or even on wikipedia). Instead, that's exactly what will feed it more and more steam. So Don't Do That.
- Experience shows that the following approaches work:
- Try to centralize all (spurious) discussion in one place
- keep it as focused on encyclopedic work as possible.
- Treat the new users like new users. They don't know our rules yet. Teach them!
- The foundation would like to see us be more welcoming towards new users. That's a good idea! Let's do that.
- --Kim Bruning (talk) 00:26, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
- And... it went to AN/I (see below) --Kim Bruning (talk) 01:33, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
Edit Notice on Paul RevereYou seem to be asserting some admin right to quench discussion on the talk page by blocking and/or warning with the editnotice that I don't think we have, by policy. IAR doesn't cover stomping on people, no matter how annoying a particular conversation is.
Kelly started a
WP:ANI discussion on this.
Followups probably best on ANI as I am sure others will want to comment. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 01:15, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
- On review - I'm going to blank the edit notice now. If an ANI consensus develops to support restoring it then I'll not object at all, but I think it's novel and enough of a stretch that the default should be "no" unless consensus develops otherwise. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 01:19, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
How does a user find a mentor?
Helen Lucy Burke
Talkback
I did what you asked but the IP reverted it again. PTJoshua (talk) 21:09, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
- You're removing everything I say. Please don't do this. It isn't helpful. --86.45.75.42 (talk) 21:19, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
- I'll talk to them. Sit tight for a second. m.o.p 21:10, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
RE: Deletion of 48gogreen page :ApalejaHello,
Thank you for quick response. I appreciate your reason. but if you do some research you'll find more then 4 or 5 substantial mentions in local or international media - in a newspaper, on a notable website, etc. - to put forward this article.
There is a link on official website of company. http://www.48gogreen.com/static/web
Looking forward for your response. thank you in advance to undelete article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Apaleja (talk • contribs) 08:03, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
Here are some articles from International Press (you can use Google translator-if you use chrome it'll provide option immediately):
http://www.regione.emilia-romagna.it/wcm/cinema/sezioni_primopiano/PrimoPiano/Gadoev.htm
http://domani.arcoiris.tv/girano-un-corto-in-48-ore-e-arrivano-dritti-a-cannes/
http://www.close-up.it/spip.php?article6724
http://www.flashvideo.it/news/9/2578/
http://www.radioemiliaromagna.it/cultura/cinema/videomaker_bolognesi_cannes_corto_ecologico.aspx
Also if YOU HAD READ careful our site you should have see the Press link (those are press links not blogs) with all these web press: http://www.48gogreen.com/static/web
Thank you — Preceding unsigned comment added by Apaleja (talk • contribs) 08:22, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
Final warning On Edit Warring of Efik language disputeIf My Reporting a false article is the reason you want to block me. Then Go ahead and BLOCK me.- I can be Block because I don't care to be part of a web/Encyclopedia of Lies! Although I have contributed anonymously to wikipedia since 2008, I only just signed on a few weeks ago to report an error that I thought was made. But you and your other BIASED administrators have refused to fix this error, instead you're all threatening to block me.
- : According to Wikipedia A false statement/article is removed immediatley it is realized. Yet as am reporting it you all are threatening me for causing disruption.
- You all are saying that I called I called Kwami Slow, Dumb etc. Yet Kwami used the words Ignorance first.
"As for Ukwa, your ignorance is not evidence of anything".
- What is the meaning of IGNORANCE? S/He also said;
"But we cannot have the same article under two names, nor an article on Ibibio-Efik that does not include Ibibio, nor an article on Efik that does not include Efik. A little common sense would be helpful."
- What is meaning of Common sense? Or because Kwami put it very nicely, and mine wasn't? Also I wasn't blanking the Efik page, since I just signed on it takes me a long while to write up an article. According to the statements above, Kwami said I could develop articles on Efik and Ibibio, that is what I was doing when you or your other BIASED administrators returned the articles back to the re-direct.
- : Since wikipedia says a false statement is fixed immediately it is reported, I explained out the mistakes, but Kwami kept insisting that me a native who speaks these languages was wrong and asked for sources. I provided the sources and Kwami Called A brilliant Historian who is a Million times more knowledgable than Kwami on the language;
"utterly ignorant AND not some random idiot who posted a web page".
- Yet you and your other Biased colleges are claiming that am the one attacking Kwami and causing a disruption.
- : Am done with Wikipedia, am going to be taking this issues to the Founder/head by email, once the Ibibio union are involved it might become a legal matter if Wikipedia still continues to portray this misleading information.
I will take this matter to the heads by Email first because they might not be aware of what you all supposed administrators are doing to their image. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ibibiogrl (talk • contribs) 21:41, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
Hi Mops,
Pls read my comments on the ANI page. I think Ibibiogrl means well, she just needs some guidance, and she's not willing to take it from me. — kwami (talk) 22:17, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
- Obviously we would like to have contributors from that part of the world, but Ibibiogrl's record here is so unpromising that I think we need good assurances that something will change in the future. (I would welcome any evidence that Ibibiogrl means well. It is hard to improve the encyclopedia when you have no interest in or respect for its policies. Read her statement above if you are uncertain about that). Mentorship has value only for someone who understands that something has gone wrong and would be willing to work with a mentor. EdJohnston (talk) 22:46, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
- I agree with Ed in this case - I have no grudge against Ibibiogrl, but the editor's attitude, despite multiple pleas for otherwise, remained combative and even insulting at points. If there's a serious expression of guilt and the editor decides they'd like to walk a different path, I'd be happy to help. However, as it is now, I believe the block should stand. m.o.p 22:52, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
- I agree that it would require some indication that she wants help. Just my 2¢ as the person she's most upset with. — kwami (talk) 23:05, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
- For the record, your input is highly appreciated, and very admirable; as the editor in conflict with her, I respect your neutrality and helpfulness. As for Ibibiogrl, we'll see where that goes. Cheers! m.o.p 00:59, 17 June 2011 (UTC)
Can you adopt me i want a new adopter.
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Mr. Pit (2nd nomination)
This isn't personalI belive the AFD on Campaign for "santorum" neologism was closed way to early and am contesting your close.
An editor has asked for a deletion review of Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2011 June 21. Because you closed the deletion discussion for this page, speedily deleted it, or otherwise were interested in the page, you might want to participate in the deletion review. KoshVorlon' Naluboutes Aeria Gloris 12:17, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
James Ball
Thank you for your concern. But I will not be blocked - _I am adding_ wikipedia to adblock. I also feel regret for having donated to the site before, but this will not happen again. Demonuminon (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 23:25, 23 June 2011 (UTC).
Thomas James BallWhy the hell did you delete his page?
Does his suffering mean nothing to you?
Heartless bitch. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.57.206.141 (talk • contribs)
Hey, Master of Puppets, OBVIOUSLY there is a public interested in keeping this article. Restore your deletion. Look at the massive flood of comments regarding your deletion here: http://www.<linkremoved>.com/2011/06/24/the-organized-silencing-of-a-man-publicly-burned-to-death/ and here http://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/i81rw/the_organized_silencing_of_a_man_publicly_burned/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Romerom (talk • contribs) 20:05, 24 June 2011 (UTC)
- Ball HIT A FOUR-YEAR-OLD CHILD, refused to pay child support, called for insurrection, demanded terrorism and violence as a solution, ultimately killed himself (leaving his children without a father) and damaged public property in the process. Even after all that, his incoherent message has mostly been ignored except by the less discriminating people claiming to speak for "men's rights" who haven't bothered to look into the details of his case. (If you really want to damage your cause, adopt a grown man who hits his own four-year-old child and flakes out on his child support as your poster boy.) --Orange Mike | Talk 20:26, 24 June 2011 (UTC) (proud father who has never hit his child in his lifetime)
Hey, "proud father who never hit his child in his lifetime", not everybody is against disciplining their children by spanking. He said his daughter was licking his hand, and he had told her repeatedly to stop. She didn't, and he smacked her. He didn't punch her, or send her to the hospital, or cause any serious injury. Just enough to have his wife baited into calling the police on him by child protective services. As for child support, he paid his child support until the point where he wasn't able to afford it due to an employment issue. Is that such a crazy thing to have happen? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.211.155.1 (talk) 04:28, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
- Again, while I do sympathize with the family and supporters, I am not taking sides, nor do I have any bias in this situation. I am not a feminist, nor am I a misogynist - I am fair and neutral towards all people, whether they be abusive fathers or abused fathers.
- This deletion was enforced solely in keeping with Wikipedia's long-established policies. Mr. Ball's death, while indeed tragic, was not reported throughout the reliable media enough to show his notability.
- I hope this makes sense to all those saddened by Mr. Ball's passing. Cheers, m.o.p 21:04, 24 June 2011 (UTC)
- I understand that you do not think that Mr. Ball's death is something that qualifies as an event and thus deleted said article. I disagree but I do see the merits of your argument. However, you claim to be unbiased in this debate and yet for someone who judges on the letter of the law you break the law and close debate 2.5 days before final judgment is to be rendered. If you have no corner then I ask why make this article a special case that it must be quelled , by your own admission, 2.5 days before any other articles found in similar circumstances are voted upon. I petition you to reinstate and allow the normal course of the discussion continue for the 2.5 days, allow the full opportunity for the pro side to make their case then recluse yourself from the final judgment. This is the only way to ensure transparency so that your claim of neutrality can be believed. CaffOMHW (talk) 03:28, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
- Ahead of things, let me tell you that I appreciate the civility.
- Wikipedia's policies aren't law - they're guidelines. As an administrator, it's my job to apply policy in a way that is completely devoid of bias and benefits the encyclopedia as a whole.
- On a side note, the deletion nomination was closed 1.5 days before the normal time. The page had a whole work week to be saved, rewritten or reworked; however, due to the lack of outside sourcing that carried reliability, there was nothing to keep that wasn't editorialized or unencyclopedic. I would also like to point out that almost every account that voiced their opinion in the 'keep' spectrum had either only edited that page or had edited very little aside from the page. Meanwhile, the deletion argument was put forward by experienced users.
- Though I understand that some people take offense to my early closure, I assure them that one extra day would not have yielded success, and that I took many factors into consideration before closing the discussion.
- Again, thank you for the civility, but I won't be overturning judgment or recreating a deletion discussion at this date. m.o.p 08:17, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
ITNthx for the 2 quick updates of my nom ;)
but also can you see the bolivia one. its got support and very nearly out of the news. we could tack it nearer the border.Lihaas (talk) 22:26, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
Ball closure.
Thank God you are an ambassador for WP, and against censorship, MoP. When Wikipedia fails, and it eventually will, it will largely be because most people don't like to be gamed and would rather not read well cultivated information that is maintained by dishonest brokers who hide behind rules that are never applied in an even-handed manner. The idea that a story is not relevant merely because it is not yet encyclopedic is ridiculous when one sees all the articles which linger on for months or years in the same state. The idea that a story is not relevant because the motivations/justifications of the user are suspect would be grounds for eliminating half the biographical articles in WP. It smacks of an agenda. The appearance of impropriety is as bad as actual impropriety.173.78.20.96 (talk) 04:51, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
- I appreciate the feedback.
- I do my best to maintain an equal, proportionate response in all dealings on Wikipedia; I don't defend things I like, or attack things I dislike, just for the reason of screwing with people. That strikes me as childish. Instead, the most I can do is try to help others understand Wikipedia policies, which are generally mind-bending and hard to grasp (for example, most people ask, "What's the reasoning a war hero isn't considered notable when Donkey Kong is?").
- Maybe one day the policies will change. I mean, most of these were written five, six year ago - the world's changing, and I expect they will with time. But, for now, the guidelines handle what comes in.
- Again, thanks for the input. I appreciate not being personally attacked - it makes it easier to reply. Cheers, m.o.p 05:08, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Natami (2nd nomination)
- The close was thoroughly thought-out, so there's not much ground for me to explore that I haven't already. If you're set on going to DRV, there's nothing I can say which will change your mind, and it's your right to ask for a review. However, current consensus sits at delete (unless the 'keep' side is hiding an ace-in-the-hole reliable source or something). Cheers, m.o.p 04:55, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- So, what about the reliable sources we already brought up in the AfD such as this interview in Amiga Future or this news article from nr2.ru? We've already established that Amiga Future isn't sponsored by a hardware company as one !voter there falsely claimed. On a related note, did you discount the !votes from individuals making misleading statements or those claiming there were "no independent reliable sources"? (I could tell you how that !voter happened to show up there, but he isn't going to like it.) I could also link to forum posts by another delete !voter who showed up there who was very much into a "delete at any cost" mode because he doesn't like "amiga clones". --Tothwolf (talk) 05:11, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- Those sources were there before the previous close, and I, like the previous administrator, do not think they're strong enough.
- I've already covered what kind of rationale was discounted and what wasn't.
- As for your last statement about other editors - I'm not quite sure what your point is, but I don't think it's relevant. As I said, I've discounted any rationale that does not apply policy.
- Cheers, m.o.p 05:33, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- Uh, no...nr2.ru was only brought up in the second AfD. Strong enough is also an argument to be made in a !vote, not a closing statement. --Tothwolf (talk) 05:56, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- My apologies, the Russian source was indeed added after the first AfD. Still too shaky for a stand-alone article, though. Cheers, m.o.p 13:42, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- To follow up on my earlier comment, while I don't really want to get into an "X did this because of Y" sort of thing with regards to this AfD, there were a number of delete !voters who showed up there for personal reasons/vendettas/bias and/or who made false statements about sources. Despite the template at the top of the AfD, the second AfD also didn't suffer from the forum canvassing that the first did. One of the delete !voters actually came by way of the forum and first AfD and was trolling because of his personal dislike of Amiga clones. --Tothwolf (talk) 15:33, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
If they have valid, policy-based rationale, their personal motivation doesn't matter, solely for the reason that an encyclopedia based on liking or disliking things would crumble instantly. I'm sure some of the deletion crew could just-as-easily blame keep voters for being enthusiasts and fans of Natami - but that's not important. As a result, making allegations of personal bias is unnecessary. The help is appreciated, but there's nothing I can do with the information. m.o.p 15:39, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- It matters when someone makes false statements and tries to hide what they are doing behind policy. As for keeps, quite a number appear to be from well established editors who don't appear to be all that interested in Amiga topics. As for myself, I wasn't even aware of NatAmi until the first AfD and didn't even !vote in the first AfD since I thought it was pretty obvious it was headed for a no-consensus close. --Tothwolf (talk) 15:58, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- Again, if their rationale is grounded in policy, their motivation does not matter, simply because it's impossible to discern someone's intent through text, and because the second someone accuses another of favoritism/malicious intent the entire argument turns into a bunch of people shouting, "You're lying." That's why there's nothing I can do with your information in this case. Cheers, m.o.p 16:02, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- Apologies to you, M.O.P., for addressing another editor on your talk page, but I just wanted to jump in this conversation. Tothwolf, with no prejudice against you at all I strongly suggest you take this in perspective. There have been two AFDs and an ANI report over this article. The way you treated me on my talk page threatening DRV because I was a new administrator was, as I feel it, borderline harassing. That you canvassed two other administrators to talk to me was also a below the belt move. In good faith, I relisted the debate and it has closed again as delete. I strongly suggest taking the advice at WP:DGAF into account here and let the issue go. I don't think there will be a problem recreating this article, even pulling the old content back from the deletion log, when the subject has better sources in a broader community. I hold no ill feeling toward you, this is purely honest advice.--v/r - TP 16:46, 27 June 2011 (UTC)]
- TParis, while you are correct in that this talk page is not the place for this, because you brought this up here and you seem to value honest feedback, I'll address this here.
In no way did I ever threaten you with DRV, let alone because you were a new administrator (discussion in question). I did however upon noticing that you had passed RFA only days earlier decide it best not to press you further in public and instead sent you this short email: "Sigh. I just noticed you just finished your RFA. The Natami AfD was a bad AfD to pick to close right out of the gate. It is likely to end up at DRV and given the magazine I mentioned, overturned. I really wish you would reconsider your close. You might have noticed I didn't even !vote in the AfD itself, however I did point out a number of things and took a couple of people to task for making false or misleading statements." That is the only email I sent you about the matter and not once did I ever threaten you with DRV. Please get your facts correct before making statements such as this because such mistakes can have a negative effect on others.
After you replied expressing your disagreement over the sources (and implied that I might be biased because I sometimes contribute to computing-related articles) I asked a number of other administrators (way more than two, actually) what they thought of the AfD's close because I wanted unbiased feedback to see if I was somehow totally off-track before I initiated a DRV. The feedback I got was fairly unanimous in that the close was problematic. Before I had a chance to draft a DRV however, you reverted your own close and relisted the AfD from scratch with a new listing. In no way did I ever "canvass" anyone to "talk to you" and if others did contact you directly, they did so at their own discretion and for their own reasons.
There indeed have been two AfDs, the first of which you closed (although one could also argue that the second was merely a relist of the first). The AN/I "discussion" you also mentioned wasn't really over this article or the first AfD, it was an attempt by someone to game AN/I when they were unable to bully me on their talk page. Please be more careful making these sort of blanket statements in the future because as I mentioned above such statements can cause problems for others. --Tothwolf (talk) 17:38, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- You're email was exactly like your reply here. You like to make threats without actually making them: "such statements can cause problems". There is very little way your email cannot be interpreted as anything other than a threat of DRV because I am a new administrator. This is all I'll say on M.O.P.'s talk page as I came here to offer honest advice and you don't seem interested in it. If you'd like to discuss further with me, you know where to find my talk page.--v/r - TP 17:51, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- TParis, in no way did I ever make an implied threat. While I may be a little blunt and abrasive at times (or maybe I'm just an assume good faith in that you simply misremembered the facts I outlined above when you made this statement here. It is easy to forget a few details here or there and not everyone maintains detailed notes for this sort of stuff (I do, for a number of reasons, although I didn't always).
As far as honest advice goes, this is a two-way street and I gave you my opinion as well. If you choose to ignore and discount it, so be it, but I'd suggest you be much more careful in the future and get your facts correct before you make the sort of statement you made above. Such statements can and do cause problems for other editors. Who knows, it may just be that you've not been around long enough yet to have witnessed people blocked or punished in some way because someone else didn't have their facts together. (If you do decide you want to continue this discussion, perhaps we should take this elsewhere.) --Tothwolf (talk) 18:14, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
]
Heaton Park Hebrew Congregation (2nd nomination)
Natami
Thought you might want to know
- (talk page stalker) That's just the same little ideological website which has been pushing for the "Martyrdom of St. Thomas Ball" attention since day one; no actual new coverage. --Orange Mike | Talk 14:34, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
- I guess I should also mention that the way I found it, was that someone tried submitting it to Fark.com last night. The admins did not greenlight it, so that particular submission/thread did not go to the main Fark page, appearing only to those with Totalfark accounts. The submission said something like "Wikipedia deletes burning man" (I'm not at a computer with TF access so I might not have that exactly right). It might, theoretically, based on the submission, be considered some sort of off-site canvassing (it was submitted with the asinine tag). For what its worth, the thread went uncommented, so I don't think that particular attempt garnered any support. I just wanted to drop a line in case that this was just the first drop of a large storm. If I see anything else, I'll drop a line here. Umbralcorax (talk) 15:58, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
Wiki ad
4chan raid
Thomas James Bell, new information
- (reliable sources. --Orange Mike | Talk 13:33, 30 June 2011 (UTC)]
Happy Birthday
![](//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3d/Nuvola_apps_cookie.svg/50px-Nuvola_apps_cookie.svg.png)
Just a happy Birthday message to you, Master of Puppets, from the Wikipedia Birthday Committee! Have a great day!
Monterey Bay (talk) 02:00, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
User:BillyMoses
Natami
AFD
- Your input is appreciated, though there's nothing I can do with it but take a note. If you'd like, you can weigh in at the next AfD(s), when/if they arise. Cheers, m.o.p 19:42, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
Dr Myko San – Health from Mushrooms
- I'd be happy to help! However, I'm currently away from a computer (typing this on my phone), so I'll have to check in on the 11th of July. Does that sound okay? m.o.p 15:40, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
- wp:NODEADLINE :-) LeadSongDog come howl! 15:48, 7 July 2011 (UTC)]
From a former Wikipedian
-71.234.90.0 (talk) 04:50, 8 July 2011 (UTC)
- Hey, thanks so much! I'm not sure who you are, but I really appreciate the sentiment. Hope all is well! m.o.p 20:49, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
Deletion review for Thomas James Ball
DRV comment
DRV
Could you please overturn the deletion of these files per File:Signature of Amitabh Bachchan.svg and File:Signature of Zakir Hussain.svg:
- File:Signature of Vishwanathan Anand.svg
- File:Signature of Vijay Mallya.svg
- File:Signature of Venkaiah Naidu.svg
- File:Signature of Sudeep Bandhopadhyay.svg
- File:Signature of Sonia Gandhi.svg
- File:Signature of Somnath Chatterjee.svg
- File:Signature of Ratan Tata.svg
- File:Signature of Kumar Mangalam Birla.svg
- File:Signature of Rajeev Shukla.svg
- File:Signature of Raj Babbar.svg
- File:Signature of Rahul Gandhi.svg
- File:Signature of Priyanka Vadra.svg
- File:Signature of P. T. Usha.svg
- File:Signature of Narendra Modi.svg
- File:Signature of Nandan Nilekani.svg
- File:Signature of Manish Tewari.svg
- File:Signature of Leander Paes.svg
- File:Signature of Lata Mangeshkar.svg
- File:Signature of Kumar Mangalam Birla.svg
- File:Signature of Karia Munda.svg
- File:Signature of Kapil Sibal.svg
- File:Signature of Kamal Nath.svg
- File:Signature of K. Kamraj.svg
- File:Signature of Jaya Bachchan.svg
- File:Signature of Gautam Gambhir.svg
- File:Signature of Brinda Karat.svg
- File:Signature of Bharatsinh Solanki.svg
- File:Signature of Bhairon Singh Shekhawat.svg
- File:Signature of B. K. Birla.svg
- File:Signature of Azim Premji.svg
- File:Signature of Arun Jaitely.svg
- File:Signature of Aishwarya Rai Bachchan.svg
- File:Signature of Abhishek Manu Singhvi.svg
- File:Signature of Abhishek Bachchan.svg
- File:Signature of Sting.svg
- File:Signature of Br. L. D. Lobo.svg
- File:Signature of VJ Rannvijay Singh Singha.svg
Diligent07Appears to be less than new. See User talk:Raoulduke25 where he states that this is a deliberate series of edits.
- Can you please help defend our collective effort of including the obscene middle-finger incident in the Cheney Mason article? It should be maintained in the article for public interest, etc. Please see the Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard#Cheney Mason discussion page and include your thoughts in favor of having the content remain in the interests of the public, etc
[8], [9] and even imputation that an editor has a connection with the person [10]. He has been on since April, and started off as being experienced on WP IMHO. Kindly keep an eye out please. Especially for any sign of a real "collective effort"? Such as [11]? Cheers. Collect (talk) 11:36, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
A cookie for you!
Keep up the good work defending the "Wiki" against genre warriors. Thanks for the help! talk) 17:31, 13 July 2011 (UTC)]
Hello. You have a new message at Lionelt's talk page.
Semi protection
OK, this thing with the militant atheism page is impossibleThese guys are incredible... I could dig up diffs to show you how they revert and wikilawyer even the SMALLEST attempt to move the article closer to NPOV. But that would take a long time for you to read. How about I show you this instead:
These guys are utterly without scruples. Who in their right mind would remove the NPOV dispute tag when heated arguments have been raging for weeks and NO moves whatsoever have been made to fix the article? Oh right, that would be someone in their right mind who is running a propaganda platform.
Anyway... I wanted to ask your advice on what to do. These guys are impossible to work with. Most of the other editors have given up and refuse to put this page on their watchlist. So what to do then? Request formal mediation? Articles for deletion? Something else?
Me and the other editors would like to see the page replaced with a disambiguation page... since literally ALL the content has already been covered (better) in Criticism of atheism, State atheism and New Atheism.
Obhave (talk) 13:21, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
- Hello User:Master of Puppets. I noticed this conversation and thought I might add that an NPOV policy. Obhave (talk) 13:11, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
- One more thing, m.o.p... my opponents are currently twisting your words to make it look as if you were scolding user:Mann_jess all along. Obhave (talk) 14:42, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
]
User:Jasper Deng page protection
- No worries! m.o.p 19:35, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
Is there a procedure for brutal uncollaborated editing with a destructive intent?I noticed that you recently had problems with proposed brutal editing by Peter S Strempel. Although he has been more sensible on your project in the end (possibly because of your administrator status?) he has not been so with regard to the astrology project pages to which he made a similar 'razor-promise'. Could you please see this Afd request which is one of three he made for major 'history of astrology' articles within the last hour, with a promise on another important page that any comment which is not refrences within 7 days will be removed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Babylonian_astrology
Is there anything that can be done about this officially to stop him wreaking havoc with content whilst he knows that the small group of editors providing content on these pages are already stretched to the limit trying to keep up with what needs to be done? I don't understand what drives some people to want to edit WP like this, but I think it is entriely the result of his ego-stress that when he proposed an edit for a passage, no one favoured it. Hope you can help or advise Zac Δ talk 01:15, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks! assume good faith; I believe that Peter is simply trying to help improve Wikipedia. While his methods may be lacking in some areas, he has displayed a pretty decent grasp on the policies he's trying to enforce.
- However, I agree that he shouldn't be making any changes if they're not discussed with the community first. Do you mind pulling up a few diffs of where he went against consensus? I'll approach him with your concern then. Thanks, m.o.p 03:57, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
- Actually there hasn't been any significant content dispute with Peter. He proposed a change to a section edit which wasn't a very good proposition and a few editors commented but without rancur, and I added a new section post immediately afterwards to point out the proiposed change would contradict with how the definition was given correctly at a later point in the article, outlining how I understood WP policy expected the main astrology article to pull its own content together, along with its summarised content from its daughter pages. Peter never responded to this but other editors started working in that direction immediately. Then, without further discussion or comment, Peter came back four days later to announce an intention to take his 'word razor' to all unreferenced assertions on the main astrology page, its sub-pages, and the portal page itself, to ensure his perceived disagreement was not circumvented in pages he viewed as content forks (I'm still not sure what he means by that). My response to that can be seen - a perfectly reasonable request for him to do what he felt was most productive, but consider that citation-tagging was the way to go. I also placed comments on his talk-page, which you can read if you are interested. That he erupted into a frenzy of AfD requests last night says something, I think, about his unwillingness to discuss and engage in other views. Most of his posts appear as new section declarations that don't appear to have considered the responses other editors give him.
- I've summarised this in the ANI request Dougweller started. The deletion requests were a step too far IMO, and I'm concerned that Peter would spring to such drastic measures in reaction to what he perceives to be me not allowing him to do what he wants to do. I'll be away for a few days so I'm tying up my WP activity now. That underlines my concern that he intends to take such drastic action with only one week's notice of intent. Thanks for looking into this. It would be good if something could be proposed to stop huge problems before they occur. 10:35, 22 July 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zachariel (talk • contribs
)
- One last request. I have just noticed that a related complaint, which is quite serious but has been sidetracked (deliberatly IMO) by Peter's suggestions that I have prevented him from doing what he wants, has been collapsed as "going nowehere" by an unsympathetic editor.
- "Its ben here several days and no admin has even sniffed at a block or ban - clearly you're not going to get admin action. So this should got to WP:DR or WP:RFCU if you want to take it further. I've boldly collapsed this, though I won't be surprised if someone uncollapses it"
- If you can find the time could you at least take a look at that related problem, and consider uncollapsing it, because the issues are serious and have gone beyond the point where Dispute resolution are appropriate. I will be away and have nothing more to add, but the problems identified still remain. Zac Δ talk 10:58, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
What to do?
- I've started a threat at ANI. Those AfDs are purely pointy and if no one objects I'll close them. talk) 06:11, 22 July 2011 (UTC)]
- Replied there. m.o.p 08:20, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
Talk Page on Militant Atheism - Introduction Section
- The update is appreciated, thanks very much. I've been dealing with life for the past two weeks, but I'll be back to close that discussion tonight or tomorrow. Thanks again, m.o.p 22:03, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
- Just bringing this up again, given the current state of this section. I believe the discussion will be archived automatically if not closed. I'm sorry if I sound pushy with you having a lot on your plate of late. If you would prefer, I could alert User:Fastily instead. Turnsalso (talk) 16:55, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
ITN
- I knew that tab I closed had unfinished business on it... thanks. 2008 University of Central Arkansas shootings is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.
The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2008 University of Central Arkansas shootings(2nd nomination) until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on good quality evidence, and our policies and guidelines.
Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article.
talk 14:00, 1 September 2011 (UTC)]
Hey
- Done! Both your userpage and the transcluded page are protected. Cheers, « ₣M₣ » 04:09, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Restored. m.o.p 05:21, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
]
User talk:Joshua the Independent
- My mistake - my block script auto-filled the edit summary. The block was issued due to the user's newfound will to disrupt Wikipedia intentionally. Their previous contributions are welcome, but this behaviour necessitates administrative action. m.o.p 21:52, 13 September 2011 (UTC)
Say hi to your imaginary girlfriend for me
- Well, I do love getting hate mail. Thanks for the laugh! Cheers, m.o.p 05:17, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
...further to the above lovely note, I weighed in on Calabe's talk page - there appears to be more confusion here than at first glance. bou·le·var·dier (talk) 05:19, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
Sorry to drop by again, but Silentsizzlingsausage (talk · contribs) would appear to be a duck. bou·le·var·dier (talk) 05:31, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
- No, it's not an issue! Thanks for the note, blocked. Cheers, WP:SPI. Thanks again, m.o.p 06:13, 14 September 2011 (UTC)]
I have to admit ...
- See the above section. The link is apparently a very subtle spam link that Calabe is removing, and socks are springing up to revert him. Swarm u / t 10:20, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
Moderation
- Alright, I'll make my way back. Thanks for letting me know! m.o.p 05:18, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
User:12.139.96.228
- To be honest, this case is perplexing. Half of this user's edits are constructive (mostly sourced), the other half aren't sourced - and the user won't reply to anybody. I'm also too busy to go through every edit and confirm whether or not it's good. I forgot about this for a while - I'll think about it tonight and figure something out for tomorrow. Thanks for reminding me! m.o.p 05:18, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
Whoops
- Whoops! Must not have been looking when I ran my block script. Thanks for letting me know, I've reblocked them for a far shorter (technically, an infinitely shorter) time. Cheers, m.o.p 22:58, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
Ashleyleggat404
- You're fully right in that the blanking policy covers indefinite blocks. I've removed the user's talk page rights as a result. Thanks again! m.o.p 00:28, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkback
Moderation
- If you look into this please consider whether Anupam's actions on the talk page and the entry itself are violations of WP:OWN. He's been driving off those he disagrees with by bludgening them to death with argument and heavily policing the entry claiming that there is a consensus written in stone despite many dissenting voices. Others have taken to simply calling him "the article's owner." I have had enough of this behavior personally and left him a message about it on his talk page. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:52, 20 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Dear User:Master of Puppets, the above user has misrepresented the occurrences at the article. I started another Introduction discussion at the article's talk page but User:Griswaldo has chosen to edit war over a second NPOV tag, despite the fact that one already exists in the article. He has done so despite the fact that the Introduction is being discussed in a peaceful manner at the talk page, in violation of your injunction: "We've only got consensus on this proposed versions (and loose consensus at that) - please do not attempt to subvert said consensus by making undiscussed changes." I have posted a message on his talk page about this behaviour. Nevertheless, I also do not wish to argue with the user personally and would prefer if you could go back to moderating the discussion between the two parties at the talk page. Thanks for taking the time to read this message. With regards, AnupamTalk 20:58, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- His "injunction?" Adding a neutrality tag to a specific sentence which an editor disputes the neutrality of is hardly "subverting the consensus by making undiscussed changes." Please stop wikilawyering to get your way. There is a growing consensus against your position regarding this article in general as well, despite your aggressive policing of the entry and the talk page. See ]
- I just thought that I would mention that User:Griswaldo, after seeing this message, just now decided to comment in the discussion rather than edit war against consensus further. Thanks for taking the time to read this message. With regards, AnupamTalk 21:51, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- "Edit war against consensus further?" My comment there has nothing to do with your message here. I've made three total edits to this entry ever. One was a copy edit in June, another was reverting an IP vandal, and the third was the revert of your Ownership edit. Please do not insinuate that I'm a edit warrior on this page. It is disingenuous.Griswaldo (talk) 22:08, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Thank you all for approaching me with your concerns.
- Obviously, I do not support Anupam - this is because I'm remaining a neutral third party, and, therefore, can't take sides. However, Griswaldo: please keep in mind that I did ask for all discussion to take place on the talk page. Why not just add your complaints to the talk page? It would have been much easier to discuss.
- I do agree that adding a NPOV tag, while slightly redundant, isn't horrible, but your intent seems to have been to stir discussion on that particular section, discussion that would be much more appropriate on the talk page.
- As for your and Snalwibma's concerns of Anupam trying to 'own' the article, I'm curious as to what you two mean; what 'delusions'?
- Also, Griswaldo, I don't think Anupam meant to insinuate you are an edit warrior (though this is just my take) - rather, they wanted to add the note that you've weighed in on discussion. m.o.p 22:10, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- your intent seems to have been to stir discussion on that particular section - No that's incorrect. I didn't add this tag, I simply reverted Anupam's attempt to own the page when he removed it. I agreed with JimWae's addition of the tag and found Anupam's removal to be unwarranted and a display of ownership.Griswaldo (talk) 22:16, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Note that, for all intents and purposes, reverting somebody is adding whatever is included in your edit, regardless of who put it there first. You revert a removal, you're agreeing with the edition you're reverting to - simple.
- And, if you agreed with JimWae, then we go back to what I was saying earlier - say so on the talk page. Two of you agree? Great! That's closer to consensus. But it means nothing if you express your support by reverting removals.
- Again, as I've asked multiple times, please stop saying that Anupam is owning anything without giving me evidence of it first. m.o.p 22:22, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Dear User:Master of Puppets, thank you for your reply to all of us. The reason User:Snalwibma stated that I was attempting to "own" the article was because I reverted an undiscussed removal from the article, which not only myself, but two other users objected to. In fact, two anonymous IP Addresses also reverted User:Snalwibma. I was open to compromise on the issue and stated that I would accept User:Turnsalso's compromise on the issue. I kindly request you to look at that discussion yourself and get an honest reading of it. Also, the only reason I removed the second NPOV tag was because there was already one present, which I did not remove. I only reverted the addition of a second NPOV tag once and even explained myself on the talk page. When I went to the talk page, I found rude accusations and an anti-collaborative spirit, despite the fact that I have been nothing but polite. I hope this helps. With regards, AnupamTalk 22:25, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry - I know I should not rise to the bait, but I have to object to the comment "The reason User:Snalwibma stated that I was attempting to 'own' the article was because I reverted an undiscussed removal ..." How dare Anupam presume to know what is in my mind! The reason I describe Anupam's attitude to the article as one of ownership is because that is how s/he behaves - "policing" every edit, pronouncing on whether s/he "accepts" or "rejects" it, peremptorily reverting anything s/he does not like, without discussion, presuming to know others' motives, and judging them as fit/unfit to contribute to the article. This has been going on for weeks, if not months. It is impossible to discuss the content of the article, let alone improve the text, because everything is filtered through the approval/disapproval of the article's self-appointed guardian, Anupam. tendentious or disruptive when they bring up certain issues, even when they are clearly in the majority. That is not collaborative. I stopped editing the article heavily because of those issues. I don't have any delusions that my opinion is worth more than anyone else's here, but I would think that the large number of established, experienced editors who are all saying there's a problem, would indicate something. — Jess· Δ♥ 19:45, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
Please reconsider your full protection of Militant atheist
- In case you didn't notice, I asked that people think twice about pointing fingers at each other. If you'd like to start a sockpuppetry investigation, let me know, and we can take that avenue - however, don't accuse other editors of ownership without substance. If you think Anupam is trying to own things, give me something. Diffs, edits, anything. I'll check it out for you, but right now, baseless accusations are not what I'm looking for.
- Also, notice that I protected the article with your edit being the last one. How is that validating the very person you've been reverting?
- The protection will stay until consensus is reached. m.o.p 22:19, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Because protection is what he wants quite clearly. He's stalling conversation and shouting down people on the talk page, where, if you have a look, you'll see he's clearly in the minority. Because of your "injunction" as he calls it, he also claims that no matter how many people agree with a certain change it is illegitimate. I'll be happy to gather some diffs, but my first message to you above was to please look into the situation carefully before acting on it. Did you do that and come to the conclusion that I'm wrong or did you not head that request? Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:29, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Yes, I did heed your request. I don't see any ownership behaviour from Anupam, though, being involved in multiple disputes, I didn't have the time to read every last word on the page, so you're free to provide evidence. However, from what I can see, Anupam's last proposal was supported by the majority - not to count (and I don't mean to imply that I decide where consensus lies by looking at pure numbers), but from looking at pure supports versus opposes, eight people (nine including Anupam) support while four oppose. How does that make Anupam's views a minority? m.o.p 22:37, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- It depends on what view you are talking about. The current RFC on the introduction is something that most people don't even want to engage because most people think this very entry should be split up and integrated into other entries. I reluctantly engaged the RfC just now myself. The last time the more serious question about the entry was asked, several of the new commentators were not around, and there was "no consensus" found because the opposing side was chalk full of SPAs and editors with a view that is outright hostile to atheism (which is a legitimate view to hold, but it is a minority view). Let me find you some diffs.Griswaldo (talk) 22:43, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- User:Griswaldo, that is exactly the issue: you do not want to collaborate with other users on the talk page, which is why you were reluctant to participate in the current RfC. Moreover, there were several SPA's on the side of the opposition as well, including WP:NPOV. In addition, the split was again recently discussed and the specific case to do so was refuted by several editors. As such, there was no consensus for it. I hope this helps. With regards, AnupamTalk 22:52, 20 September 2011 (UTC)]
- No. You are trying to write an article that violates WP:SYNTH because it conflates New Atheism with oppressive communist regimes and their histories of violence. That's hardly NPOV. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:59, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
Hi m.o.p., as someone who occasionally looks at that page (and then washes my hands), I just want to compliment you as having done the right thing in full protecting. By way of unsolicited advice to the involved editors, the best thing they could do is to allow The Wrong Version to sit there a good long time, and devote their energy to other things. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:54, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
]
Yes, please reconsider your full protection of
WP:RS—deserve protection against misinformed reverts. Thanks Geremia (talk) 16:12, 22 September 2011 (UTC)]
Diffs of
- I'm not really sure where the ownership is here; nowhere in our policies is it stated that a user can't promote their RFC on the subject talk page. If it's ongoing and they'd like to move it to the forefront, what's wrong with that? More so, some of your summaries seem inaccurate - in that last diff, you state that Anupam is removing images, yet I only see Anupam adding an image (the peace dove that's at the top of the page). Also, you use repeating examples. m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Well clearly the last diff was wrong. Thanks for the vote of confidence. There are no repeat examples nor inaccurate summaries, just a mistaken copy paste of the second to last diff to the last position as well. I have fixed it. Cheers.
- Using "consensus claims from one RfC to reject changes made to article content
- Same as above. Using the "consensus" bludgeon to get his way. Please note that clearly we ought to edit by consensus, but this consensus is highly disputed, and IMO not there in the first place. The real problem is the way in which Anupam decides to use it like a trump card to remove changes he doesn't like. Ask yourself if all changes post "consensus" have been removed or just the ones Anupam decided he wanted removed.
Master of Puppets do you need more diffs or is this enough?Griswaldo (talk) 23:31, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Well I need more diffs because your "evidence" so far looks like a desperate attempt to incriminate an editor who has been very successful in persuading his colleagues to adopt his proposals. Anupam has presented his proposals, argued the merits and persuaded many editors. Anything you want to tell us about why you're having difficulty doing likewise? – Lionel (talk) 06:02, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- I don't see this is as conclusive evidence, either. And, it should be said - if people are editing against established consensus, then people are free to re-evaluate consensus, but edit-warring against it doesn't make much sense. m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- If not ownership then what is this - [28], [29], [30]? He removes two RfCs started by another editor, and revolving around the question that many of us actually find to be the fundamental question to answer regarding the entry. Then he edit wars to keep these RfCs off the page, claiming again to have some sort of authority stemming from your prior actions. If you aren't willing to do something here I'm going to another administrator and I'm going to ask for your initial "consensus," your strong arm administrating, and your lack of action here to be reviewed as well. Thanks.Griswaldo (talk) 17:08, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Anupam has already apologized for reverting those RfC additions, and we've moved past it. He also didn't claim to have administrative authority, but was waiting for my approval. We've cleared this up, it's not an issue. So no, I'm not going to take any action (as I've said here and on ANI). Now, if you'd like to threaten me and tell me that, since I'm not cooperating with your wills, you'll go to another administrator, that's fine - as I've said, you can seek outside opinions - but remember to keep a cool head, because borderline threats are not appreciated. m.o.p 21:49, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- It was not a threat, "borderline" or otherwise. You are conveniently ignoring a growing number of voices who are all saying the same thing - there is an ownership problem here. The deletion issue has not been "cleared up" as far as I'm concerned. Whenever it is mentioned Anupam insists that he did not "unilaterally" delete the RfCs from the page, which is a blatant distortion, since that is exactly what he did. He continues to act as a policeman at the page, and yes he does continue to cite your authority. Did you bother to read the many diffs I posted above in the second two sections? I will quote three random examples from those I provided for you if you want.
- When he first deleted the two RfCs he wrote: "rv - see discussion with reviewing administrator; approval needed to start another RfC while one is already occurring."
- When he deleted a fact tag that JimWae put into the lede: "rv excessive tagging per talk; tag is already extant in header; do not subvert previous consensus but gain consensus for potential additions per administrative notice"
- When he rejected another recent change to the entry: "accepted edits by User:Jkhwiki; rv removal of longstanding referenced content - see discussion on talk page and gain consensus for action per administrative injunction"
- In talk page comments and in edit summaries he consistently does the same thing. He refers to your authority, either directly or indirectly through your "notice" or your "injunction" as he likes to call it. I never said the claimed to have administrative authority, I said that he's using your authority, by way of your comments, such as the closure of the AfD to bully people. Do you deny that he citing your comments, because if you do then I must have fabricated those quotes. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:32, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
If you say "If you don't do A, then I'm going to go and do B", that's a threat. Anyway, that's not the issue - we've already covered all the issues with the RfC reverting, and Anupam won't do it again. Why keep raising hell over it?
We've already covered everything you bring up. And no, I'm not denying anything. I'm just saying this, and it's very simple: I don't think there has been any blatant ownership here. That's my judgment. If you disagree, again, feel free to raise this with another administrator or on ANI. m.o.p 23:12, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Regarding the new RFC, I still think there has not passed yet too much time since the last discussion about splitting the article. As far as I knew, repeating these sorts of debates (like splitting, deleting, renaming) before a larger amount of time has passed (like 6 months) is usually discouraged. And as others have also argued earlier, even if having multiple RFCs is possible, it's not very useful, and the new RFC seems to discourage further discussion about improving the lead introduction. So preventing multiple RFCs (and also a RFC about an issue debated not too long ago) does not look to me like evidence of bad faith intentions. Cody7777777 (talk) 21:37, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Cody, would you mind linking me to the previous RfC on splitting? m.o.p 21:49, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- The previous attempt to split the article can be found here. Cody7777777 (talk) 21:55, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Response
Yes, it does. Thanks, m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Dear User:Master of Puppets, I just noticed that User:Binksternet started another RfC while a current one is occurring. Is this appropriate? I reverted the addition motioning for one until your response is confirmed. If it is acceptable, then I apologize and will revert my edit. I look forward to your response. With regards, AnupamTalk 15:14, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'll form my reply on ANI. m.o.p 17:12, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- When you do please take into account my comment just above, regarding Anupam's edit warring to remove talk page comments (namely these RfCs) posted by others on the talk page. If you still don't think this is WP:OWN then clearly other administrators are needed here.Griswaldo (talk) 17:15, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Dear User:Griswaldo, how is going to a neutral mediator to address the issue owning the article? I acknowledge that the article is in dispute and as a result, I am asking an administrator for advice in this matter, NOT handling things on my own, as you have done by edit warring. Your WP:OWN allegations have not only been dismissed by this administrator, but by several other users, including, User:Lionelt, User:Cody7777777 and User:NYyankees51. Thanks, AnupamTalk 17:27, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- In reply to Griswaldo: reverting the RfCs was a mistake, but we've cleared that up now. As Anupam has stated at ANI, the intent was not to discourage discussion. If you think my judgment is compromised, you're welcome to seek another administrator's input. m.o.p 21:04, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- And as further evidence of WP:OWN, see this. Anupam adds a comment to everything that anyone else says, as if he/she is the owner of the article and everyone else is a subordinate contributor. This particular instance is pretty benign (although it clutters up the talk page with an unnecessary comment that merely says "I agree"), but I do think that Anupam at least needs to learn how to avoid giving the appearance of thinking he/she owns the article, and to desist from chipping in and saying the same thing over and over again, which almost makes meaningful discussion impossible! SNALWIBMA ( talk - contribs ) 17:31, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- While the input is appreciated, as I've said before, making allegations of ownership without hard evidence isn't going to get us anywhere. Anupam is not stopping others from discussing changes or forming consensus, and that's all that matters - refactoring the talk page or commenting on an issue is not against policy, and I'm not going to tell someone to stop editing because it "looks" like they're doing something wrong. As said above, you're welcome to request another administrator's insight if you wish. m.o.p 21:04, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
COIHi
you've helped me out before, with a conflict of interest problem, so having much more experience than me on wikipedia, I thought I would be bold enough to ask again for help.
Similar problem to last, User_talk:Hobbycraft is editing the HOBBYCRAFT article and making changes that aren't citably right. I think the user name suggest and history suggests a conflict of interest case.
Can you please, speak to them addressing this issue.
Thank you very much for your help.
Markcoulter50 (talk) 22:27, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
- I've blocked that user for username violations. Thanks a lot for letting me know! Keep up the great work, m.o.p 23:00, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkbackcausa sui (talk) 18:47, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Hello. You have a new message at causa sui's talk page. causa sui (talk) 20:54, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Problematic editing on militant atheism
- I hope it's not considered defamatory to repeat the final line: "I merely present the diffs above, and let others draw their own conclusions. Is this a duck? Does it quack? You decide.". Unfortunately, the concerned community no longer has that opportunity. What did you decide on their behalf? Does this duck quack, or not? bobrayner (talk) 15:42, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- It's not your wording, it's the very idea of it. Going to what's allegorically a public place and shouting, "Hey, everybody, this man is a criminal!" is one step below blatantly forming a lynch mob. As I've said, I have no problem with your wording or evidence, just your location of choice. Wikipedia is not, unfortunately, a democracy - letting others draw their conclusions and voice their opinions is not how a sockpuppet investigation works.
- So yes, please don't go restoring any of that section. We're not discussing editors, we're discussing the content they produce. Anything else has a sub-board to deal with it (like WP:SPI).
- Hopefully that clears things up! I'll be happy to answer any more questions should you have them. Cheers, m.o.p 15:48, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Hello User:Bobrayner, I noticed the section you created on the militant atheism talk page. If you do feel the way you do about User:Turnsalso and the anonymous IP Addresses, you can take this up with WP:SPI. Thanks, AnupamTalk 15:52, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
Are you kidding my MoP? Above your write: Going to what's allegorically a public place and shouting, "Hey, everybody, this man is a criminal!" is one step below blatantly forming a lynch mob. AND We're not discussing editors, we're discussing the content they produce. Yet you call this edit by Lionelt "good faith," at WQA? MoP, I would not ask you to agree with me or to like me, but can I please ask you not to insult me with these double standards.Griswaldo (talk) 16:18, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
]
- Griswaldo, I mean no offense when I say this, but I'd appreciate it if you stayed out of discussions which didn't involve you. Also, please don't put words in my mouth. Thanks, m.o.p 16:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I have not put words in your mouth. You said that you would assume good faith about Lionel. If you "assume good faith" it means you assume his edits were in "good faith." If you did not intend that meaning I suggest you reconsider what you wrote. Also, if you want me to "stay out of discussion which don't involve me" then I suggest your first order of business should be to do the same thing yourself. You decided to post at WQA, when there was no mention of you or anything you've done in that thread. Once again, I expect people not to practice double standards. So as long as you cannot show me that you will treat me as you ask to be treated yourself, I will not oblige you. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:21, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Please stop bickering. I'm not quite sure what you're trying to accomplish here. I've already explained what I meant when I said assuming good faith, but I'll explain again: I assumed that Lionelt was not hounding or deliberately haranguing you. I did not say, at any point, that his edit content was good faith, and I've told him not to edit like that again. So please stop accusing me of saying things I haven't said.
- Also, I posted in WQA because, as a mediator in this case and as an administrator, it's my duty to weigh in on administrative noticeboards, especially when the case is an ongoing discussion I've been participating in for three months. It is not your duty to weigh in on discussions on my talk page that don't concern you. I hope the distinction is clear here. m.o.p 20:33, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I think you are confused about something. Content is never good faith. "Editing in good faith" and "good faith edits" refers to the intent of the editor always. It has nothing to do with content. My assumption that you also felt the edits were appropriate comes from the fact that you did not say they weren't appropriate and clearly feel that his intentions were good. If you'd like to set the record straight on that issue you still can. I've asked you twice now to discuss the actual edits that are the focal point of the thread. Also, I moved the thread to ANI, per the suggestion of the editor who marked it "resolved."Griswaldo (talk) 20:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- See Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#User:Lionelt_--_following_my_past_edits_to_drum_up_support_against_me. FYI, I copy pasted the entire discussion because both you and Collect were critical of my initial post and I thought it was the right thing to do to preserve that criticism in the record of the conversation. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:43, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- In reply to your first paragraph: I'm going to give up now, as it seems you're misunderstanding most of what I type, but you're the one who stated that the content was not good faith (as you said, not appropriate), and I agreed - I referred to his intent in replying to you, and said that I assumed good faith in his motives, not his replies. I can't really say that in a clearer way, so my apologies if it's hard to understand. Also, as I've already said, I've left a message for Lionelt about his edits, so clearly I do not feel they're appropriate. m.o.p 20:57, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I, too, find these double standards vexing.
- Which diff is defamatory?
- I had hitherto thought that people on the article talkpage might like to be aware of potential problems with votestacking on the article talkpage (and 3rr evasion, of course). Would it be permitted to add a link to that list of diffs when it's in a different place, or would you consider that defamatory too? bobrayner (talk) 16:23, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- As I said, the information is not defamatory, but the way it's presented is - we have specific processes available to pursue should one feel there are sockpuppets about. However, calling someone out with the intent of informing the community is overstepping your authority and damaging to the accused's character. Also, there's no way a community discussion about whether or not one editor is a sockpuppet can end in anything other than a sockpuppet investigation anyway.
- So, in closing, please don't bring issues like this to the talk page. If you're concerned about votestacking, take it to the appropriate venue - if your concerns are validated, we'll take measures against said puppets. Cheers, m.o.p 16:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I am very disappointed that it's no longer permissible to raise problems with article-editing on the article talkpage. Previous concerns about sockpuppetry were simply ignored; the difference this time is that it's backed by lots of diffs.
- I'm fairly confident that the people concerned have sufficient technical nous to make checkuser draw a blank. And, let's be entirely honest, within minutes of me creating an SPI, an admin of the right persuasion will be getting an email suggesting that an SPI needs their attention. And SPI does not see offsite coordination by a facebook group &c. Finally, any null result at SPI will be used at the article in much the same way as previous administrative decisions have been. So, I do not believe that an SPI will improve either the article, or the encyclopædia as a whole. bobrayner (talk) 17:08, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- If you don't think the pre-existing methods set in place for situations like this are sufficient, you can always raise that concern at the village pump or suggest a policy revision - however, SPI is the venue for these requests, and the only venue. The talk page can not substitute. m.o.p 17:10, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
76.228.226.122Thank you for blocking the anonymous user, who is being counterproductive and rude. (although I think the block should have been one week, but I guess ok at least)
Can you also please try to hide the edit summaries of these edits if possible?
This and
this
Thanks and regards, talk 05:04, 26 September 2011 (UTC)]
- I'll extend the block if this behaviour continues after the block period is over.
- As for the edit summaries, those don't warrant hiding - I apologize for their content, but they don't meet the criteria of what I should remove. It's best just to ignore them for now. Cheers, m.o.p 05:13, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
- Okay, good to know, if I did nothing wrong, no permanent block will be enforced. The IP does not volunteer on WP as an admin and so the disproportionately out of line comments and threats of his should be ignored. --talk 05:19, 26 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Sounds good. We only hide extremely offensive revisions; milder ones stay in the edit history. Thanks again for bringing this to our attention! Cheers, m.o.p 05:31, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
Email
Jasper Deng (talk) 05:29, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
- Reading. talk) 06:00, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Bad Girls Club
- I've blocked Junebea for 2 days for disregarding warnings. m.o.p 20:30, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks for helping :) Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 21:06, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkback
- And again.Griswaldo (talk) 04:24, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
- And again ... but maybe the last. You can settle this question once and for all. See the talk page.Griswaldo (talk) 06:09, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'm sure I'm not alone in wanting to hear your replies to the last responses posed to you at that page. IMO, I don't know why you went down the road you did, but as far as I can tell you're blatantly misrepesenting facts about your own actions when people are brining concerns to you. You might think that since you closed the RfC the matter is settled, but it is not. You're actions have not made my life any more pleasant in the last few days vis-a-vis trying to deal with Anupam's disruption and I think you owe us all answers. So please revisit this thread and deal with the open questions. Thanks.Griswaldo (talk) 02:19, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
- I invite you to stop asking the same question again and again. This would be appreciated. Thanks, m.o.p 02:33, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Block question
- No, I just block obviously bad-faith accounts on sight. Advertising/spam accounts fall under that category. m.o.p 00:37, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Thanks
- Thank you. I've unlocked the article for whatever may come. If I'm needed again, feel free to let me know. Thanks for the kind words again, m.o.p 05:12, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
reminder
- We're still waiting to see if the user understands COI policy (per Ed's question). I'll prod the user and see if they'll answer. talk) 19:20, 30 September 2011 (UTC)]
Nextel logo deleted
- Mmm, good point. What's the link to the logo in question? m.o.p 01:33, 2 October 2011 (UTC)
Support of Sage City SymphonyYou deleted this page before I had a chance to go back in and add the stuff that you wanted to see, including the links within Wikipedia to important composers such as Lou Callabro (who started this orchestra and cites it in his Wikipedia page) and Susan Hurley whose work we premiered (SC is also mentioned in her Wikipedia entry). (Let alone links about the works we have performed.) And we have a web site at www.sagecitysymphony.org, have existed for over 35 yrs and are a significant cultural resource in the Bennington area such that we receive grants from local, statewide and national foundations.
I broke my wrist last weekend and am doing one-handed pecking so it'll take me a few days to get that loaded in. We are going out for a bit now, but I would appreciate your undeleting the page so that I don't have to re-invent the starting part when I go back in tomorrow to add links. Or delete it entirely so that I can start fresh - at this point either would work as long as I can start some serious work on it tomorrow. I am the webmaster by the way, so I do have access to content and more links.
Thank you, Celia Murray — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.228.127.119 (talk) 14:22, 1 October 2011 (UTC)
- It looks like fixed everything up. Best of luck, m.o.p 01:35, 2 October 2011 (UTC)]
Reply on Deterence's talk page
MA
After the beating you took you deserve a cold one--on me! Thanks for being fair and balanced – Lionel (talk) 03:55, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
- Hey, thanks! Glad to help out. :) m.o.p 03:56, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
Deletion of Mau5trap Recordings
--neocharles (talk) 07:33, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Existence does not equal notability - the subject has to be notable to get a Wikipedia page. m.o.p 12:05, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
Questoin re: AIV
- Addendum, actually, I read it very clearly in WP:VANDNOT: "Uploading or using material on Wikipedia in violation of Wikipedia's copyright policies is prohibited, but is not vandalism unless the user does so maliciously or fails to heed warnings." So if a person fails to heed warnings it is vandalism. My mistake here was that I only warned once. --Muhandes (talk) 12:29, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Eh, technically it is vandalism, but the user seems to be trying to improve the Wikipedia - that desire to help is misplaced in this case, as they seem to think that using copyrighted content is actually better. Weird. For most cases, yes, you should report copyvio to AIV - as long as they've been warned sufficiently. m.o.p 12:42, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- OK, he now did it again and the time stamp is after your last warning. Is it vandalism now? --Muhandes (talk) 12:32, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Yeah, if they're outright ignoring warnings. I've blocked for three days. m.o.p 12:40, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
Classmusic
- Oh, I know. But if somebody's lied to my face about using another account - and to other editors working on the article - I'm not about to let them go without a repercussion or two. I'd like Almost-instinct and Voceditnore to look over the article and fix up anything shifty. Also, I'd like Classmusic to respond to my warning, instead of blanking it and ignoring like they have to the above-named editors.
- So, in short, I know that COI doesn't bar editing, but it's enough of a concern that, given the user's recent behaviour, I'll stop them from doing anything until we've figured things out. This isn't too rouge-y, is it? I didn't hear that. Perhaps he is unaware of the sockpuppet investigation findings. Anyhow it seems that DeltaQuad has also blocked the Classmusic account. I left a note on his page about using the unblock template, but re-iterated that he needs to read the COI and Autobiography guidelines and stick to them scrupulously, if he gets unblocked. In the Opera and Classical Music WikiProjects, we get a lot of articles for performers, ensembles, etc. created by their agents and PR people, and often themselves. In my experience, the best I can hope for after one of these tussles is that they'll edit their article according to the guidelines in future. I have yet to find a single one who has ever contributed anything else to Wikipedia. Their only interest in the project is as a PR tool. Having said that, at least it results (after much red-pencilling from other editors) in one new article on a notable subject that we didn't have before and in a small way redresses the pop culture systemic bias here. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 13:40, 5 October 2011 (UTC)]
Danish election
- Never mind, it's been pulled by another admin. All the best, Jenks24 (talk) 11:03, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry about that! I was busy all day and didn't get your message until now. Thanks for letting me know, though! Cheers, m.o.p 19:51, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
3RRHey there! :)
Well WP:CRYSTAL has wined down, however, there's currently a
The Bad Girls Club (season 7). I have notified the two users [32], [33]. The evidence can be found here. They are having an edit-conflict on how the "Duration of cast" should be presented. Since there's no rules regarding anything like that, and it was made up about a year ago, I couldn't warned them to stop their e/c with anything except the 3RR rule. Maybe they need an admin to tell them to stop, so that's why I came to you :) Thanks, Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 01:17, 6 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Temporary page protection requested. Calabe1992 (talk) 01:29, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
New Message on my talk page!
Help possible need
Wikipedia Ambassador Program is looking for new Online AmbassadorsHi! Since you've been identified as an Awesome Wikipedian, I wanted to let you know about the Online Ambassador. We're looking for friendly Wikipedians who are good at reviewing articles and giving feedback to serve as mentors for students who are assigned to write for Wikipedia in their classes.
If you're interested, I encourage you to take a look at the Online Ambassador guidelines; the "mentorship process" describes roughly what will be expected of mentors during the current term, which started in January and goes through early May. If that's something you want to do, please apply!
You can find instructions for applying at WP:ONLINE.
I hope to hear from you soon.--Sage Ross - Online Facilitator, Wikimedia Foundation (talk) 19:27, 8 February 2011 (UTC)
talk page.
- See a log of files removed today here.
- Shut off the bot here.
- Report errors here.
Thank you, -- DASHBot (talk) 05:10, 9 February 2011 (UTC)
Mail
00:05, 10 February 2011 (UTC)
Wait
- How was this a copy-paste move? It was a recreation of a deleted article. Sasata (talk) 23:46, 10 February 2011 (UTC)
- Which was, to my knowledge, notabilified. Is that a word? m.o.p 01:05, 11 February 2011 (UTC)
:D![](//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/29/Choco_chip_cookie_bitten.jpg/100px-Choco_chip_cookie_bitten.jpg)
CharlieEchoTango has eaten your {{cookie}}! The cookie made them happy and they'd like to give you a great big hug for donating it. Spread the WikiLove by giving out more {{cookie}}s, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend. Thanks again!
Spread the goodness of cookies by adding {{subst:cookie}} to someone's talk page with a friendly message, or eat a cookie with {{subst:munch}}!
[[CharlieEchoTango]] 01:38, 11 February 2011 (UTC)
Blanking of material at The Deputy
- MOP, how would you feel about one month of full protection for this article? I see that Ekwos has stopped by to remove the section again. The dispute about the KGB connection has been running for almost a year now. Full protection could motivate people to discuss the issue, and perhaps create an RfC. Thanks EdJohnston (talk) 20:32, 11 February 2011 (UTC)
- One month of pending changes is better, I think. I don't like limiting legitimate editors, but this will disallow further warring from disrupting the 'pedia. m.o.p 07:10, 12 February 2011 (UTC)
Deletion of Gabriel Weinberg
- It wasn't my decision to delete the article. We had clear community consensus. Please stop taking thins personally. m.o.p 07:10, 12 February 2011 (UTC)
Edit summariesActually user:Zjarriretues is removing a reliable source [[1]] that mentions his ethnicity and places another that's more suitable to his national standarts. Although the source Zjarri. prefers is also 'rs' he did not disagree in the article's talkpage with my version [[2]].
Unfortunately when a couple of months passed you prefered to make his revert per
wp:ninja, without explaining the reason of this (very) delayed revert.Alexikoua (talk) 17:03, 14 February 2011 (UTC)]
I reverted myself, however, an explanation is needed in the talkpage by the user since he agreed in the past with the version I've presented on Aug..Alexikoua (talk) 17:14, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
Your friend the the IP
sent you an email
- One of your userboxes says you're only 17! I would have sworn you were older than that! ; ) --Kenatipo speak! 23:40, 16 February 2011 (UTC)
Godzilla
- I feel that it doesn't. If you check our crystal ball policy, you'll notice that it says, "It is appropriate to report discussion and arguments about the prospects for success of future proposals and projects or whether some development will occur, if discussion is properly referenced." That policy is meant to stop unsourced conjecture and speculation by editors, so I think we're fine in this case. The Hobbit film project with all its troubles). Here, with Godzilla, the reports are extremely normal. The studio announces its plans for a film, and a director is attached for it (which is not a guarantee). That's what it boils down to, and it's not enough to be more than a news source. Erik (talk | contribs) 16:11, 17 February 2011 (UTC)
- I appreciate that you've explained your position to me (though I did read your points in the AFD thread) but I can't delve into stuff like this. If you're not happy with my close, you're fully welcome to ask another administrator or even open another AFD. m.o.p 16:15, 17 February 2011 (UTC)
- I won't do anything for now. I would just prefer to keep such articles a rarity. Following films for some time, a lot of people tend to create an article about a film the moment it is announced (or the moment something new happens, like a new director). I do like to report discussion (did so at Concrete Island) but it's more a matter of where for me, to ensure topics of enduring notability. I did want to ask, do you think a merge discussion in general would be more beneficial? I feel like an AFD like that foments a keep-or-delete mentality that overrides the in-between solution of reporting discussion under a broader article until we can be near certain a film will exist. Erik (talk | contribs) 16:21, 17 February 2011 (UTC)
- A merge discussion would be great; I could weigh in and such. Feel free to open one up if you'd like to. m.o.p 23:03, 17 February 2011 (UTC)
]
Please respond
userspace
Talkback 16:14, 19 February 2011 (UTC)
Protect my talk page
- Lately, this IP also misused the edit war template on my talk page.Jasper Deng (talk) 00:37, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
Block an IP
E-Mail
nice guyhiii master of puppets,
ok do u know the movie Twilght saga ?
rply me back i want 2 talk 2 u a lot because i like ur pesonalty.BY
talk) 11:58, 28 April 2011 (UTC)]
File source problem with File:MoPuppetarmy.pngThank you for uploading File:MoPuppetarmy.png. I noticed that the file's description page currently doesn't specify who created the content, so the copyright status is unclear. If you did not create this file yourself, you will need to specify the owner of the copyright. If you obtained it from a website, please add a link to the website from which it was taken, together with a brief restatement of that website's terms of use of its content. However, if the copyright holder is a party unaffiliated from the website's publisher, that copyright should also be acknowledged.
If you have uploaded other files, consider verifying that you have specified sources for those files as well. You can find a list of files you have created in your upload log. Unsourced and untagged images may be deleted one week after they have been tagged per Wikipedia's criteria for speedy deletion, F4. If the image is copyrighted and non-free, the image will be deleted 48 hours after 11:44, 11 May 2011 (UTC) per speedy deletion criterion F7. If the file is already gone, you can still make a request for undeletion and ask for a chance to fix the problem. You may wish to read the Wikipedia's image use policy. If you have any questions or are in need of assistance please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. Magog the Ogre (talk) 11:44, 11 May 2011 (UTC)
The Deputy
- Thanks for your reply. My concern was not that Jayjg indicated he would rewrite and did not do so, but that he had agreed to allow more of the disputed section in the article rather than a dismissive sentence or two, but when editors began to delete the entire section based on frivolous reasons, he supported it. It appears now that we have, or are in the process of reaching a resolution. The section is now in the article, reduced substantially to account of Jayjg's concers about undue weight. Mamalujo (talk) 18:40, 27 May 2011 (UTC)
Carla Rushing page deletion
Any further discussion of Sarah Palin will result in a warning, and then a temporary block. Thank you!Hmmm, that might be just a tad excessive. We don't want to suppress all discussion, because that's when the pressure has nowhere to go, and people will go and meatball:ExpandScope.
Since scope is already expanded to international media, forcing scope to expand further might be a bit of a Bad Idea (tm). I recommend Not Going There.
If we're really intent on keeping discussions off of WP, we can always create a wikinews article, and link to the "discuss this article" page.
However, at the moment, people seem to be keeping it down to a dull roar anyway.
--Kim Bruning (talk) 22:44, 6 June 2011 (UTC)
- I think you caught my side point, but I'd like to stress the part I'm trying to tell you to watch out for!
- Long term empirical experience shows that attempts to curtail discussion on wikipedia will not slow down the internet discussion elsewhere (or even on wikipedia). Instead, that's exactly what will feed it more and more steam. So Don't Do That.
- Experience shows that the following approaches work:
- Try to centralize all (spurious) discussion in one place
- keep it as focused on encyclopedic work as possible.
- Treat the new users like new users. They don't know our rules yet. Teach them!
- The foundation would like to see us be more welcoming towards new users. That's a good idea! Let's do that.
- --Kim Bruning (talk) 00:26, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
- And... it went to AN/I (see below) --Kim Bruning (talk) 01:33, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
Edit Notice on Paul RevereYou seem to be asserting some admin right to quench discussion on the talk page by blocking and/or warning with the editnotice that I don't think we have, by policy. IAR doesn't cover stomping on people, no matter how annoying a particular conversation is.
Kelly started a
WP:ANI discussion on this.
Followups probably best on ANI as I am sure others will want to comment. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 01:15, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
- On review - I'm going to blank the edit notice now. If an ANI consensus develops to support restoring it then I'll not object at all, but I think it's novel and enough of a stretch that the default should be "no" unless consensus develops otherwise. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 01:19, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
How does a user find a mentor?
Helen Lucy Burke
Talkback
I did what you asked but the IP reverted it again. PTJoshua (talk) 21:09, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
- You're removing everything I say. Please don't do this. It isn't helpful. --86.45.75.42 (talk) 21:19, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
- I'll talk to them. Sit tight for a second. m.o.p 21:10, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
RE: Deletion of 48gogreen page :ApalejaHello,
Thank you for quick response. I appreciate your reason. but if you do some research you'll find more then 4 or 5 substantial mentions in local or international media - in a newspaper, on a notable website, etc. - to put forward this article.
There is a link on official website of company. http://www.48gogreen.com/static/web
Looking forward for your response. thank you in advance to undelete article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Apaleja (talk • contribs) 08:03, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
Here are some articles from International Press (you can use Google translator-if you use chrome it'll provide option immediately):
http://www.regione.emilia-romagna.it/wcm/cinema/sezioni_primopiano/PrimoPiano/Gadoev.htm
http://domani.arcoiris.tv/girano-un-corto-in-48-ore-e-arrivano-dritti-a-cannes/
http://www.close-up.it/spip.php?article6724
http://www.flashvideo.it/news/9/2578/
http://www.radioemiliaromagna.it/cultura/cinema/videomaker_bolognesi_cannes_corto_ecologico.aspx
Also if YOU HAD READ careful our site you should have see the Press link (those are press links not blogs) with all these web press: http://www.48gogreen.com/static/web
Thank you — Preceding unsigned comment added by Apaleja (talk • contribs) 08:22, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
Final warning On Edit Warring of Efik language disputeIf My Reporting a false article is the reason you want to block me. Then Go ahead and BLOCK me.- I can be Block because I don't care to be part of a web/Encyclopedia of Lies! Although I have contributed anonymously to wikipedia since 2008, I only just signed on a few weeks ago to report an error that I thought was made. But you and your other BIASED administrators have refused to fix this error, instead you're all threatening to block me.
- : According to Wikipedia A false statement/article is removed immediatley it is realized. Yet as am reporting it you all are threatening me for causing disruption.
- You all are saying that I called I called Kwami Slow, Dumb etc. Yet Kwami used the words Ignorance first.
"As for Ukwa, your ignorance is not evidence of anything".
- What is the meaning of IGNORANCE? S/He also said;
"But we cannot have the same article under two names, nor an article on Ibibio-Efik that does not include Ibibio, nor an article on Efik that does not include Efik. A little common sense would be helpful."
- What is meaning of Common sense? Or because Kwami put it very nicely, and mine wasn't? Also I wasn't blanking the Efik page, since I just signed on it takes me a long while to write up an article. According to the statements above, Kwami said I could develop articles on Efik and Ibibio, that is what I was doing when you or your other BIASED administrators returned the articles back to the re-direct.
- : Since wikipedia says a false statement is fixed immediately it is reported, I explained out the mistakes, but Kwami kept insisting that me a native who speaks these languages was wrong and asked for sources. I provided the sources and Kwami Called A brilliant Historian who is a Million times more knowledgable than Kwami on the language;
"utterly ignorant AND not some random idiot who posted a web page".
- Yet you and your other Biased colleges are claiming that am the one attacking Kwami and causing a disruption.
- : Am done with Wikipedia, am going to be taking this issues to the Founder/head by email, once the Ibibio union are involved it might become a legal matter if Wikipedia still continues to portray this misleading information.
I will take this matter to the heads by Email first because they might not be aware of what you all supposed administrators are doing to their image. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ibibiogrl (talk • contribs) 21:41, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
Hi Mops,
Pls read my comments on the ANI page. I think Ibibiogrl means well, she just needs some guidance, and she's not willing to take it from me. — kwami (talk) 22:17, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
- Obviously we would like to have contributors from that part of the world, but Ibibiogrl's record here is so unpromising that I think we need good assurances that something will change in the future. (I would welcome any evidence that Ibibiogrl means well. It is hard to improve the encyclopedia when you have no interest in or respect for its policies. Read her statement above if you are uncertain about that). Mentorship has value only for someone who understands that something has gone wrong and would be willing to work with a mentor. EdJohnston (talk) 22:46, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
- I agree with Ed in this case - I have no grudge against Ibibiogrl, but the editor's attitude, despite multiple pleas for otherwise, remained combative and even insulting at points. If there's a serious expression of guilt and the editor decides they'd like to walk a different path, I'd be happy to help. However, as it is now, I believe the block should stand. m.o.p 22:52, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
- I agree that it would require some indication that she wants help. Just my 2¢ as the person she's most upset with. — kwami (talk) 23:05, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
- For the record, your input is highly appreciated, and very admirable; as the editor in conflict with her, I respect your neutrality and helpfulness. As for Ibibiogrl, we'll see where that goes. Cheers! m.o.p 00:59, 17 June 2011 (UTC)
Can you adopt me i want a new adopter.
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Mr. Pit (2nd nomination)
This isn't personalI belive the AFD on Campaign for "santorum" neologism was closed way to early and am contesting your close.
An editor has asked for a deletion review of Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2011 June 21. Because you closed the deletion discussion for this page, speedily deleted it, or otherwise were interested in the page, you might want to participate in the deletion review. KoshVorlon' Naluboutes Aeria Gloris 12:17, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
James Ball
Thank you for your concern. But I will not be blocked - _I am adding_ wikipedia to adblock. I also feel regret for having donated to the site before, but this will not happen again. Demonuminon (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 23:25, 23 June 2011 (UTC).
Thomas James BallWhy the hell did you delete his page?
Does his suffering mean nothing to you?
Heartless bitch. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.57.206.141 (talk • contribs)
Hey, Master of Puppets, OBVIOUSLY there is a public interested in keeping this article. Restore your deletion. Look at the massive flood of comments regarding your deletion here: http://www.<linkremoved>.com/2011/06/24/the-organized-silencing-of-a-man-publicly-burned-to-death/ and here http://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/i81rw/the_organized_silencing_of_a_man_publicly_burned/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Romerom (talk • contribs) 20:05, 24 June 2011 (UTC)
- Ball HIT A FOUR-YEAR-OLD CHILD, refused to pay child support, called for insurrection, demanded terrorism and violence as a solution, ultimately killed himself (leaving his children without a father) and damaged public property in the process. Even after all that, his incoherent message has mostly been ignored except by the less discriminating people claiming to speak for "men's rights" who haven't bothered to look into the details of his case. (If you really want to damage your cause, adopt a grown man who hits his own four-year-old child and flakes out on his child support as your poster boy.) --Orange Mike | Talk 20:26, 24 June 2011 (UTC) (proud father who has never hit his child in his lifetime)
Hey, "proud father who never hit his child in his lifetime", not everybody is against disciplining their children by spanking. He said his daughter was licking his hand, and he had told her repeatedly to stop. She didn't, and he smacked her. He didn't punch her, or send her to the hospital, or cause any serious injury. Just enough to have his wife baited into calling the police on him by child protective services. As for child support, he paid his child support until the point where he wasn't able to afford it due to an employment issue. Is that such a crazy thing to have happen? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.211.155.1 (talk) 04:28, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
- Again, while I do sympathize with the family and supporters, I am not taking sides, nor do I have any bias in this situation. I am not a feminist, nor am I a misogynist - I am fair and neutral towards all people, whether they be abusive fathers or abused fathers.
- This deletion was enforced solely in keeping with Wikipedia's long-established policies. Mr. Ball's death, while indeed tragic, was not reported throughout the reliable media enough to show his notability.
- I hope this makes sense to all those saddened by Mr. Ball's passing. Cheers, m.o.p 21:04, 24 June 2011 (UTC)
- I understand that you do not think that Mr. Ball's death is something that qualifies as an event and thus deleted said article. I disagree but I do see the merits of your argument. However, you claim to be unbiased in this debate and yet for someone who judges on the letter of the law you break the law and close debate 2.5 days before final judgment is to be rendered. If you have no corner then I ask why make this article a special case that it must be quelled , by your own admission, 2.5 days before any other articles found in similar circumstances are voted upon. I petition you to reinstate and allow the normal course of the discussion continue for the 2.5 days, allow the full opportunity for the pro side to make their case then recluse yourself from the final judgment. This is the only way to ensure transparency so that your claim of neutrality can be believed. CaffOMHW (talk) 03:28, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
- Ahead of things, let me tell you that I appreciate the civility.
- Wikipedia's policies aren't law - they're guidelines. As an administrator, it's my job to apply policy in a way that is completely devoid of bias and benefits the encyclopedia as a whole.
- On a side note, the deletion nomination was closed 1.5 days before the normal time. The page had a whole work week to be saved, rewritten or reworked; however, due to the lack of outside sourcing that carried reliability, there was nothing to keep that wasn't editorialized or unencyclopedic. I would also like to point out that almost every account that voiced their opinion in the 'keep' spectrum had either only edited that page or had edited very little aside from the page. Meanwhile, the deletion argument was put forward by experienced users.
- Though I understand that some people take offense to my early closure, I assure them that one extra day would not have yielded success, and that I took many factors into consideration before closing the discussion.
- Again, thank you for the civility, but I won't be overturning judgment or recreating a deletion discussion at this date. m.o.p 08:17, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
ITNthx for the 2 quick updates of my nom ;)
but also can you see the bolivia one. its got support and very nearly out of the news. we could tack it nearer the border.Lihaas (talk) 22:26, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
Ball closure.
Thank God you are an ambassador for WP, and against censorship, MoP. When Wikipedia fails, and it eventually will, it will largely be because most people don't like to be gamed and would rather not read well cultivated information that is maintained by dishonest brokers who hide behind rules that are never applied in an even-handed manner. The idea that a story is not relevant merely because it is not yet encyclopedic is ridiculous when one sees all the articles which linger on for months or years in the same state. The idea that a story is not relevant because the motivations/justifications of the user are suspect would be grounds for eliminating half the biographical articles in WP. It smacks of an agenda. The appearance of impropriety is as bad as actual impropriety.173.78.20.96 (talk) 04:51, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
- I appreciate the feedback.
- I do my best to maintain an equal, proportionate response in all dealings on Wikipedia; I don't defend things I like, or attack things I dislike, just for the reason of screwing with people. That strikes me as childish. Instead, the most I can do is try to help others understand Wikipedia policies, which are generally mind-bending and hard to grasp (for example, most people ask, "What's the reasoning a war hero isn't considered notable when Donkey Kong is?").
- Maybe one day the policies will change. I mean, most of these were written five, six year ago - the world's changing, and I expect they will with time. But, for now, the guidelines handle what comes in.
- Again, thanks for the input. I appreciate not being personally attacked - it makes it easier to reply. Cheers, m.o.p 05:08, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Natami (2nd nomination)
- The close was thoroughly thought-out, so there's not much ground for me to explore that I haven't already. If you're set on going to DRV, there's nothing I can say which will change your mind, and it's your right to ask for a review. However, current consensus sits at delete (unless the 'keep' side is hiding an ace-in-the-hole reliable source or something). Cheers, m.o.p 04:55, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- So, what about the reliable sources we already brought up in the AfD such as this interview in Amiga Future or this news article from nr2.ru? We've already established that Amiga Future isn't sponsored by a hardware company as one !voter there falsely claimed. On a related note, did you discount the !votes from individuals making misleading statements or those claiming there were "no independent reliable sources"? (I could tell you how that !voter happened to show up there, but he isn't going to like it.) I could also link to forum posts by another delete !voter who showed up there who was very much into a "delete at any cost" mode because he doesn't like "amiga clones". --Tothwolf (talk) 05:11, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- Those sources were there before the previous close, and I, like the previous administrator, do not think they're strong enough.
- I've already covered what kind of rationale was discounted and what wasn't.
- As for your last statement about other editors - I'm not quite sure what your point is, but I don't think it's relevant. As I said, I've discounted any rationale that does not apply policy.
- Cheers, m.o.p 05:33, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- Uh, no...nr2.ru was only brought up in the second AfD. Strong enough is also an argument to be made in a !vote, not a closing statement. --Tothwolf (talk) 05:56, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- My apologies, the Russian source was indeed added after the first AfD. Still too shaky for a stand-alone article, though. Cheers, m.o.p 13:42, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- To follow up on my earlier comment, while I don't really want to get into an "X did this because of Y" sort of thing with regards to this AfD, there were a number of delete !voters who showed up there for personal reasons/vendettas/bias and/or who made false statements about sources. Despite the template at the top of the AfD, the second AfD also didn't suffer from the forum canvassing that the first did. One of the delete !voters actually came by way of the forum and first AfD and was trolling because of his personal dislike of Amiga clones. --Tothwolf (talk) 15:33, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
If they have valid, policy-based rationale, their personal motivation doesn't matter, solely for the reason that an encyclopedia based on liking or disliking things would crumble instantly. I'm sure some of the deletion crew could just-as-easily blame keep voters for being enthusiasts and fans of Natami - but that's not important. As a result, making allegations of personal bias is unnecessary. The help is appreciated, but there's nothing I can do with the information. m.o.p 15:39, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- It matters when someone makes false statements and tries to hide what they are doing behind policy. As for keeps, quite a number appear to be from well established editors who don't appear to be all that interested in Amiga topics. As for myself, I wasn't even aware of NatAmi until the first AfD and didn't even !vote in the first AfD since I thought it was pretty obvious it was headed for a no-consensus close. --Tothwolf (talk) 15:58, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- Again, if their rationale is grounded in policy, their motivation does not matter, simply because it's impossible to discern someone's intent through text, and because the second someone accuses another of favoritism/malicious intent the entire argument turns into a bunch of people shouting, "You're lying." That's why there's nothing I can do with your information in this case. Cheers, m.o.p 16:02, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- Apologies to you, M.O.P., for addressing another editor on your talk page, but I just wanted to jump in this conversation. Tothwolf, with no prejudice against you at all I strongly suggest you take this in perspective. There have been two AFDs and an ANI report over this article. The way you treated me on my talk page threatening DRV because I was a new administrator was, as I feel it, borderline harassing. That you canvassed two other administrators to talk to me was also a below the belt move. In good faith, I relisted the debate and it has closed again as delete. I strongly suggest taking the advice at WP:DGAF into account here and let the issue go. I don't think there will be a problem recreating this article, even pulling the old content back from the deletion log, when the subject has better sources in a broader community. I hold no ill feeling toward you, this is purely honest advice.--v/r - TP 16:46, 27 June 2011 (UTC)]
- TParis, while you are correct in that this talk page is not the place for this, because you brought this up here and you seem to value honest feedback, I'll address this here.
In no way did I ever threaten you with DRV, let alone because you were a new administrator (discussion in question). I did however upon noticing that you had passed RFA only days earlier decide it best not to press you further in public and instead sent you this short email: "Sigh. I just noticed you just finished your RFA. The Natami AfD was a bad AfD to pick to close right out of the gate. It is likely to end up at DRV and given the magazine I mentioned, overturned. I really wish you would reconsider your close. You might have noticed I didn't even !vote in the AfD itself, however I did point out a number of things and took a couple of people to task for making false or misleading statements." That is the only email I sent you about the matter and not once did I ever threaten you with DRV. Please get your facts correct before making statements such as this because such mistakes can have a negative effect on others.
After you replied expressing your disagreement over the sources (and implied that I might be biased because I sometimes contribute to computing-related articles) I asked a number of other administrators (way more than two, actually) what they thought of the AfD's close because I wanted unbiased feedback to see if I was somehow totally off-track before I initiated a DRV. The feedback I got was fairly unanimous in that the close was problematic. Before I had a chance to draft a DRV however, you reverted your own close and relisted the AfD from scratch with a new listing. In no way did I ever "canvass" anyone to "talk to you" and if others did contact you directly, they did so at their own discretion and for their own reasons.
There indeed have been two AfDs, the first of which you closed (although one could also argue that the second was merely a relist of the first). The AN/I "discussion" you also mentioned wasn't really over this article or the first AfD, it was an attempt by someone to game AN/I when they were unable to bully me on their talk page. Please be more careful making these sort of blanket statements in the future because as I mentioned above such statements can cause problems for others. --Tothwolf (talk) 17:38, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- You're email was exactly like your reply here. You like to make threats without actually making them: "such statements can cause problems". There is very little way your email cannot be interpreted as anything other than a threat of DRV because I am a new administrator. This is all I'll say on M.O.P.'s talk page as I came here to offer honest advice and you don't seem interested in it. If you'd like to discuss further with me, you know where to find my talk page.--v/r - TP 17:51, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- TParis, in no way did I ever make an implied threat. While I may be a little blunt and abrasive at times (or maybe I'm just an assume good faith in that you simply misremembered the facts I outlined above when you made this statement here. It is easy to forget a few details here or there and not everyone maintains detailed notes for this sort of stuff (I do, for a number of reasons, although I didn't always).
As far as honest advice goes, this is a two-way street and I gave you my opinion as well. If you choose to ignore and discount it, so be it, but I'd suggest you be much more careful in the future and get your facts correct before you make the sort of statement you made above. Such statements can and do cause problems for other editors. Who knows, it may just be that you've not been around long enough yet to have witnessed people blocked or punished in some way because someone else didn't have their facts together. (If you do decide you want to continue this discussion, perhaps we should take this elsewhere.) --Tothwolf (talk) 18:14, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
]
Heaton Park Hebrew Congregation (2nd nomination)
Natami
Thought you might want to know
- (talk page stalker) That's just the same little ideological website which has been pushing for the "Martyrdom of St. Thomas Ball" attention since day one; no actual new coverage. --Orange Mike | Talk 14:34, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
- I guess I should also mention that the way I found it, was that someone tried submitting it to Fark.com last night. The admins did not greenlight it, so that particular submission/thread did not go to the main Fark page, appearing only to those with Totalfark accounts. The submission said something like "Wikipedia deletes burning man" (I'm not at a computer with TF access so I might not have that exactly right). It might, theoretically, based on the submission, be considered some sort of off-site canvassing (it was submitted with the asinine tag). For what its worth, the thread went uncommented, so I don't think that particular attempt garnered any support. I just wanted to drop a line in case that this was just the first drop of a large storm. If I see anything else, I'll drop a line here. Umbralcorax (talk) 15:58, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
Wiki ad
4chan raid
Thomas James Bell, new information
- (reliable sources. --Orange Mike | Talk 13:33, 30 June 2011 (UTC)]
Happy Birthday
![](//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3d/Nuvola_apps_cookie.svg/50px-Nuvola_apps_cookie.svg.png)
Just a happy Birthday message to you, Master of Puppets, from the Wikipedia Birthday Committee! Have a great day!
Monterey Bay (talk) 02:00, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
User:BillyMoses
Natami
AFD
- Your input is appreciated, though there's nothing I can do with it but take a note. If you'd like, you can weigh in at the next AfD(s), when/if they arise. Cheers, m.o.p 19:42, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
Dr Myko San – Health from Mushrooms
- I'd be happy to help! However, I'm currently away from a computer (typing this on my phone), so I'll have to check in on the 11th of July. Does that sound okay? m.o.p 15:40, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
- wp:NODEADLINE :-) LeadSongDog come howl! 15:48, 7 July 2011 (UTC)]
From a former Wikipedian
-71.234.90.0 (talk) 04:50, 8 July 2011 (UTC)
- Hey, thanks so much! I'm not sure who you are, but I really appreciate the sentiment. Hope all is well! m.o.p 20:49, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
Deletion review for Thomas James Ball
DRV comment
DRV
Could you please overturn the deletion of these files per File:Signature of Amitabh Bachchan.svg and File:Signature of Zakir Hussain.svg:
- File:Signature of Vishwanathan Anand.svg
- File:Signature of Vijay Mallya.svg
- File:Signature of Venkaiah Naidu.svg
- File:Signature of Sudeep Bandhopadhyay.svg
- File:Signature of Sonia Gandhi.svg
- File:Signature of Somnath Chatterjee.svg
- File:Signature of Ratan Tata.svg
- File:Signature of Kumar Mangalam Birla.svg
- File:Signature of Rajeev Shukla.svg
- File:Signature of Raj Babbar.svg
- File:Signature of Rahul Gandhi.svg
- File:Signature of Priyanka Vadra.svg
- File:Signature of P. T. Usha.svg
- File:Signature of Narendra Modi.svg
- File:Signature of Nandan Nilekani.svg
- File:Signature of Manish Tewari.svg
- File:Signature of Leander Paes.svg
- File:Signature of Lata Mangeshkar.svg
- File:Signature of Kumar Mangalam Birla.svg
- File:Signature of Karia Munda.svg
- File:Signature of Kapil Sibal.svg
- File:Signature of Kamal Nath.svg
- File:Signature of K. Kamraj.svg
- File:Signature of Jaya Bachchan.svg
- File:Signature of Gautam Gambhir.svg
- File:Signature of Brinda Karat.svg
- File:Signature of Bharatsinh Solanki.svg
- File:Signature of Bhairon Singh Shekhawat.svg
- File:Signature of B. K. Birla.svg
- File:Signature of Azim Premji.svg
- File:Signature of Arun Jaitely.svg
- File:Signature of Aishwarya Rai Bachchan.svg
- File:Signature of Abhishek Manu Singhvi.svg
- File:Signature of Abhishek Bachchan.svg
- File:Signature of Sting.svg
- File:Signature of Br. L. D. Lobo.svg
- File:Signature of VJ Rannvijay Singh Singha.svg
Diligent07Appears to be less than new. See User talk:Raoulduke25 where he states that this is a deliberate series of edits.
- Can you please help defend our collective effort of including the obscene middle-finger incident in the Cheney Mason article? It should be maintained in the article for public interest, etc. Please see the Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard#Cheney Mason discussion page and include your thoughts in favor of having the content remain in the interests of the public, etc
[8], [9] and even imputation that an editor has a connection with the person [10]. He has been on since April, and started off as being experienced on WP IMHO. Kindly keep an eye out please. Especially for any sign of a real "collective effort"? Such as [11]? Cheers. Collect (talk) 11:36, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
A cookie for you!
Keep up the good work defending the "Wiki" against genre warriors. Thanks for the help! talk) 17:31, 13 July 2011 (UTC)]
Hello. You have a new message at Lionelt's talk page.
Semi protection
OK, this thing with the militant atheism page is impossibleThese guys are incredible... I could dig up diffs to show you how they revert and wikilawyer even the SMALLEST attempt to move the article closer to NPOV. But that would take a long time for you to read. How about I show you this instead:
These guys are utterly without scruples. Who in their right mind would remove the NPOV dispute tag when heated arguments have been raging for weeks and NO moves whatsoever have been made to fix the article? Oh right, that would be someone in their right mind who is running a propaganda platform.
Anyway... I wanted to ask your advice on what to do. These guys are impossible to work with. Most of the other editors have given up and refuse to put this page on their watchlist. So what to do then? Request formal mediation? Articles for deletion? Something else?
Me and the other editors would like to see the page replaced with a disambiguation page... since literally ALL the content has already been covered (better) in Criticism of atheism, State atheism and New Atheism.
Obhave (talk) 13:21, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
- Hello User:Master of Puppets. I noticed this conversation and thought I might add that an NPOV policy. Obhave (talk) 13:11, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
- One more thing, m.o.p... my opponents are currently twisting your words to make it look as if you were scolding user:Mann_jess all along. Obhave (talk) 14:42, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
]
User:Jasper Deng page protection
- No worries! m.o.p 19:35, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
Is there a procedure for brutal uncollaborated editing with a destructive intent?I noticed that you recently had problems with proposed brutal editing by Peter S Strempel. Although he has been more sensible on your project in the end (possibly because of your administrator status?) he has not been so with regard to the astrology project pages to which he made a similar 'razor-promise'. Could you please see this Afd request which is one of three he made for major 'history of astrology' articles within the last hour, with a promise on another important page that any comment which is not refrences within 7 days will be removed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Babylonian_astrology
Is there anything that can be done about this officially to stop him wreaking havoc with content whilst he knows that the small group of editors providing content on these pages are already stretched to the limit trying to keep up with what needs to be done? I don't understand what drives some people to want to edit WP like this, but I think it is entriely the result of his ego-stress that when he proposed an edit for a passage, no one favoured it. Hope you can help or advise Zac Δ talk 01:15, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks! assume good faith; I believe that Peter is simply trying to help improve Wikipedia. While his methods may be lacking in some areas, he has displayed a pretty decent grasp on the policies he's trying to enforce.
- However, I agree that he shouldn't be making any changes if they're not discussed with the community first. Do you mind pulling up a few diffs of where he went against consensus? I'll approach him with your concern then. Thanks, m.o.p 03:57, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
- Actually there hasn't been any significant content dispute with Peter. He proposed a change to a section edit which wasn't a very good proposition and a few editors commented but without rancur, and I added a new section post immediately afterwards to point out the proiposed change would contradict with how the definition was given correctly at a later point in the article, outlining how I understood WP policy expected the main astrology article to pull its own content together, along with its summarised content from its daughter pages. Peter never responded to this but other editors started working in that direction immediately. Then, without further discussion or comment, Peter came back four days later to announce an intention to take his 'word razor' to all unreferenced assertions on the main astrology page, its sub-pages, and the portal page itself, to ensure his perceived disagreement was not circumvented in pages he viewed as content forks (I'm still not sure what he means by that). My response to that can be seen - a perfectly reasonable request for him to do what he felt was most productive, but consider that citation-tagging was the way to go. I also placed comments on his talk-page, which you can read if you are interested. That he erupted into a frenzy of AfD requests last night says something, I think, about his unwillingness to discuss and engage in other views. Most of his posts appear as new section declarations that don't appear to have considered the responses other editors give him.
- I've summarised this in the ANI request Dougweller started. The deletion requests were a step too far IMO, and I'm concerned that Peter would spring to such drastic measures in reaction to what he perceives to be me not allowing him to do what he wants to do. I'll be away for a few days so I'm tying up my WP activity now. That underlines my concern that he intends to take such drastic action with only one week's notice of intent. Thanks for looking into this. It would be good if something could be proposed to stop huge problems before they occur. 10:35, 22 July 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zachariel (talk • contribs
)
- One last request. I have just noticed that a related complaint, which is quite serious but has been sidetracked (deliberatly IMO) by Peter's suggestions that I have prevented him from doing what he wants, has been collapsed as "going nowehere" by an unsympathetic editor.
- "Its ben here several days and no admin has even sniffed at a block or ban - clearly you're not going to get admin action. So this should got to WP:DR or WP:RFCU if you want to take it further. I've boldly collapsed this, though I won't be surprised if someone uncollapses it"
- If you can find the time could you at least take a look at that related problem, and consider uncollapsing it, because the issues are serious and have gone beyond the point where Dispute resolution are appropriate. I will be away and have nothing more to add, but the problems identified still remain. Zac Δ talk 10:58, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
What to do?
- I've started a threat at ANI. Those AfDs are purely pointy and if no one objects I'll close them. talk) 06:11, 22 July 2011 (UTC)]
- Replied there. m.o.p 08:20, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
Talk Page on Militant Atheism - Introduction Section
- The update is appreciated, thanks very much. I've been dealing with life for the past two weeks, but I'll be back to close that discussion tonight or tomorrow. Thanks again, m.o.p 22:03, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
- Just bringing this up again, given the current state of this section. I believe the discussion will be archived automatically if not closed. I'm sorry if I sound pushy with you having a lot on your plate of late. If you would prefer, I could alert User:Fastily instead. Turnsalso (talk) 16:55, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
ITN
- I knew that tab I closed had unfinished business on it... thanks. 2008 University of Central Arkansas shootings is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.
The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2008 University of Central Arkansas shootings(2nd nomination) until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on good quality evidence, and our policies and guidelines.
Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article.
talk 14:00, 1 September 2011 (UTC)]
Hey
- Done! Both your userpage and the transcluded page are protected. Cheers, « ₣M₣ » 04:09, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Restored. m.o.p 05:21, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
]
User talk:Joshua the Independent
- My mistake - my block script auto-filled the edit summary. The block was issued due to the user's newfound will to disrupt Wikipedia intentionally. Their previous contributions are welcome, but this behaviour necessitates administrative action. m.o.p 21:52, 13 September 2011 (UTC)
Say hi to your imaginary girlfriend for me
- Well, I do love getting hate mail. Thanks for the laugh! Cheers, m.o.p 05:17, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
...further to the above lovely note, I weighed in on Calabe's talk page - there appears to be more confusion here than at first glance. bou·le·var·dier (talk) 05:19, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
Sorry to drop by again, but Silentsizzlingsausage (talk · contribs) would appear to be a duck. bou·le·var·dier (talk) 05:31, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
- No, it's not an issue! Thanks for the note, blocked. Cheers, WP:SPI. Thanks again, m.o.p 06:13, 14 September 2011 (UTC)]
I have to admit ...
- See the above section. The link is apparently a very subtle spam link that Calabe is removing, and socks are springing up to revert him. Swarm u / t 10:20, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
Moderation
- Alright, I'll make my way back. Thanks for letting me know! m.o.p 05:18, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
User:12.139.96.228
- To be honest, this case is perplexing. Half of this user's edits are constructive (mostly sourced), the other half aren't sourced - and the user won't reply to anybody. I'm also too busy to go through every edit and confirm whether or not it's good. I forgot about this for a while - I'll think about it tonight and figure something out for tomorrow. Thanks for reminding me! m.o.p 05:18, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
Whoops
- Whoops! Must not have been looking when I ran my block script. Thanks for letting me know, I've reblocked them for a far shorter (technically, an infinitely shorter) time. Cheers, m.o.p 22:58, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
Ashleyleggat404
- You're fully right in that the blanking policy covers indefinite blocks. I've removed the user's talk page rights as a result. Thanks again! m.o.p 00:28, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkback
Moderation
- If you look into this please consider whether Anupam's actions on the talk page and the entry itself are violations of WP:OWN. He's been driving off those he disagrees with by bludgening them to death with argument and heavily policing the entry claiming that there is a consensus written in stone despite many dissenting voices. Others have taken to simply calling him "the article's owner." I have had enough of this behavior personally and left him a message about it on his talk page. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:52, 20 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Dear User:Master of Puppets, the above user has misrepresented the occurrences at the article. I started another Introduction discussion at the article's talk page but User:Griswaldo has chosen to edit war over a second NPOV tag, despite the fact that one already exists in the article. He has done so despite the fact that the Introduction is being discussed in a peaceful manner at the talk page, in violation of your injunction: "We've only got consensus on this proposed versions (and loose consensus at that) - please do not attempt to subvert said consensus by making undiscussed changes." I have posted a message on his talk page about this behaviour. Nevertheless, I also do not wish to argue with the user personally and would prefer if you could go back to moderating the discussion between the two parties at the talk page. Thanks for taking the time to read this message. With regards, AnupamTalk 20:58, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- His "injunction?" Adding a neutrality tag to a specific sentence which an editor disputes the neutrality of is hardly "subverting the consensus by making undiscussed changes." Please stop wikilawyering to get your way. There is a growing consensus against your position regarding this article in general as well, despite your aggressive policing of the entry and the talk page. See ]
- I just thought that I would mention that User:Griswaldo, after seeing this message, just now decided to comment in the discussion rather than edit war against consensus further. Thanks for taking the time to read this message. With regards, AnupamTalk 21:51, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- "Edit war against consensus further?" My comment there has nothing to do with your message here. I've made three total edits to this entry ever. One was a copy edit in June, another was reverting an IP vandal, and the third was the revert of your Ownership edit. Please do not insinuate that I'm a edit warrior on this page. It is disingenuous.Griswaldo (talk) 22:08, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Thank you all for approaching me with your concerns.
- Obviously, I do not support Anupam - this is because I'm remaining a neutral third party, and, therefore, can't take sides. However, Griswaldo: please keep in mind that I did ask for all discussion to take place on the talk page. Why not just add your complaints to the talk page? It would have been much easier to discuss.
- I do agree that adding a NPOV tag, while slightly redundant, isn't horrible, but your intent seems to have been to stir discussion on that particular section, discussion that would be much more appropriate on the talk page.
- As for your and Snalwibma's concerns of Anupam trying to 'own' the article, I'm curious as to what you two mean; what 'delusions'?
- Also, Griswaldo, I don't think Anupam meant to insinuate you are an edit warrior (though this is just my take) - rather, they wanted to add the note that you've weighed in on discussion. m.o.p 22:10, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- your intent seems to have been to stir discussion on that particular section - No that's incorrect. I didn't add this tag, I simply reverted Anupam's attempt to own the page when he removed it. I agreed with JimWae's addition of the tag and found Anupam's removal to be unwarranted and a display of ownership.Griswaldo (talk) 22:16, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Note that, for all intents and purposes, reverting somebody is adding whatever is included in your edit, regardless of who put it there first. You revert a removal, you're agreeing with the edition you're reverting to - simple.
- And, if you agreed with JimWae, then we go back to what I was saying earlier - say so on the talk page. Two of you agree? Great! That's closer to consensus. But it means nothing if you express your support by reverting removals.
- Again, as I've asked multiple times, please stop saying that Anupam is owning anything without giving me evidence of it first. m.o.p 22:22, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Dear User:Master of Puppets, thank you for your reply to all of us. The reason User:Snalwibma stated that I was attempting to "own" the article was because I reverted an undiscussed removal from the article, which not only myself, but two other users objected to. In fact, two anonymous IP Addresses also reverted User:Snalwibma. I was open to compromise on the issue and stated that I would accept User:Turnsalso's compromise on the issue. I kindly request you to look at that discussion yourself and get an honest reading of it. Also, the only reason I removed the second NPOV tag was because there was already one present, which I did not remove. I only reverted the addition of a second NPOV tag once and even explained myself on the talk page. When I went to the talk page, I found rude accusations and an anti-collaborative spirit, despite the fact that I have been nothing but polite. I hope this helps. With regards, AnupamTalk 22:25, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry - I know I should not rise to the bait, but I have to object to the comment "The reason User:Snalwibma stated that I was attempting to 'own' the article was because I reverted an undiscussed removal ..." How dare Anupam presume to know what is in my mind! The reason I describe Anupam's attitude to the article as one of ownership is because that is how s/he behaves - "policing" every edit, pronouncing on whether s/he "accepts" or "rejects" it, peremptorily reverting anything s/he does not like, without discussion, presuming to know others' motives, and judging them as fit/unfit to contribute to the article. This has been going on for weeks, if not months. It is impossible to discuss the content of the article, let alone improve the text, because everything is filtered through the approval/disapproval of the article's self-appointed guardian, Anupam. tendentious or disruptive when they bring up certain issues, even when they are clearly in the majority. That is not collaborative. I stopped editing the article heavily because of those issues. I don't have any delusions that my opinion is worth more than anyone else's here, but I would think that the large number of established, experienced editors who are all saying there's a problem, would indicate something. — Jess· Δ♥ 19:45, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
Please reconsider your full protection of Militant atheist
- In case you didn't notice, I asked that people think twice about pointing fingers at each other. If you'd like to start a sockpuppetry investigation, let me know, and we can take that avenue - however, don't accuse other editors of ownership without substance. If you think Anupam is trying to own things, give me something. Diffs, edits, anything. I'll check it out for you, but right now, baseless accusations are not what I'm looking for.
- Also, notice that I protected the article with your edit being the last one. How is that validating the very person you've been reverting?
- The protection will stay until consensus is reached. m.o.p 22:19, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Because protection is what he wants quite clearly. He's stalling conversation and shouting down people on the talk page, where, if you have a look, you'll see he's clearly in the minority. Because of your "injunction" as he calls it, he also claims that no matter how many people agree with a certain change it is illegitimate. I'll be happy to gather some diffs, but my first message to you above was to please look into the situation carefully before acting on it. Did you do that and come to the conclusion that I'm wrong or did you not head that request? Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:29, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Yes, I did heed your request. I don't see any ownership behaviour from Anupam, though, being involved in multiple disputes, I didn't have the time to read every last word on the page, so you're free to provide evidence. However, from what I can see, Anupam's last proposal was supported by the majority - not to count (and I don't mean to imply that I decide where consensus lies by looking at pure numbers), but from looking at pure supports versus opposes, eight people (nine including Anupam) support while four oppose. How does that make Anupam's views a minority? m.o.p 22:37, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- It depends on what view you are talking about. The current RFC on the introduction is something that most people don't even want to engage because most people think this very entry should be split up and integrated into other entries. I reluctantly engaged the RfC just now myself. The last time the more serious question about the entry was asked, several of the new commentators were not around, and there was "no consensus" found because the opposing side was chalk full of SPAs and editors with a view that is outright hostile to atheism (which is a legitimate view to hold, but it is a minority view). Let me find you some diffs.Griswaldo (talk) 22:43, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- User:Griswaldo, that is exactly the issue: you do not want to collaborate with other users on the talk page, which is why you were reluctant to participate in the current RfC. Moreover, there were several SPA's on the side of the opposition as well, including WP:NPOV. In addition, the split was again recently discussed and the specific case to do so was refuted by several editors. As such, there was no consensus for it. I hope this helps. With regards, AnupamTalk 22:52, 20 September 2011 (UTC)]
- No. You are trying to write an article that violates WP:SYNTH because it conflates New Atheism with oppressive communist regimes and their histories of violence. That's hardly NPOV. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:59, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
Hi m.o.p., as someone who occasionally looks at that page (and then washes my hands), I just want to compliment you as having done the right thing in full protecting. By way of unsolicited advice to the involved editors, the best thing they could do is to allow The Wrong Version to sit there a good long time, and devote their energy to other things. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:54, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
]
Yes, please reconsider your full protection of
WP:RS—deserve protection against misinformed reverts. Thanks Geremia (talk) 16:12, 22 September 2011 (UTC)]
Diffs of
- I'm not really sure where the ownership is here; nowhere in our policies is it stated that a user can't promote their RFC on the subject talk page. If it's ongoing and they'd like to move it to the forefront, what's wrong with that? More so, some of your summaries seem inaccurate - in that last diff, you state that Anupam is removing images, yet I only see Anupam adding an image (the peace dove that's at the top of the page). Also, you use repeating examples. m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Well clearly the last diff was wrong. Thanks for the vote of confidence. There are no repeat examples nor inaccurate summaries, just a mistaken copy paste of the second to last diff to the last position as well. I have fixed it. Cheers.
- Using "consensus claims from one RfC to reject changes made to article content
- Same as above. Using the "consensus" bludgeon to get his way. Please note that clearly we ought to edit by consensus, but this consensus is highly disputed, and IMO not there in the first place. The real problem is the way in which Anupam decides to use it like a trump card to remove changes he doesn't like. Ask yourself if all changes post "consensus" have been removed or just the ones Anupam decided he wanted removed.
Master of Puppets do you need more diffs or is this enough?Griswaldo (talk) 23:31, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Well I need more diffs because your "evidence" so far looks like a desperate attempt to incriminate an editor who has been very successful in persuading his colleagues to adopt his proposals. Anupam has presented his proposals, argued the merits and persuaded many editors. Anything you want to tell us about why you're having difficulty doing likewise? – Lionel (talk) 06:02, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- I don't see this is as conclusive evidence, either. And, it should be said - if people are editing against established consensus, then people are free to re-evaluate consensus, but edit-warring against it doesn't make much sense. m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- If not ownership then what is this - [28], [29], [30]? He removes two RfCs started by another editor, and revolving around the question that many of us actually find to be the fundamental question to answer regarding the entry. Then he edit wars to keep these RfCs off the page, claiming again to have some sort of authority stemming from your prior actions. If you aren't willing to do something here I'm going to another administrator and I'm going to ask for your initial "consensus," your strong arm administrating, and your lack of action here to be reviewed as well. Thanks.Griswaldo (talk) 17:08, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Anupam has already apologized for reverting those RfC additions, and we've moved past it. He also didn't claim to have administrative authority, but was waiting for my approval. We've cleared this up, it's not an issue. So no, I'm not going to take any action (as I've said here and on ANI). Now, if you'd like to threaten me and tell me that, since I'm not cooperating with your wills, you'll go to another administrator, that's fine - as I've said, you can seek outside opinions - but remember to keep a cool head, because borderline threats are not appreciated. m.o.p 21:49, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- It was not a threat, "borderline" or otherwise. You are conveniently ignoring a growing number of voices who are all saying the same thing - there is an ownership problem here. The deletion issue has not been "cleared up" as far as I'm concerned. Whenever it is mentioned Anupam insists that he did not "unilaterally" delete the RfCs from the page, which is a blatant distortion, since that is exactly what he did. He continues to act as a policeman at the page, and yes he does continue to cite your authority. Did you bother to read the many diffs I posted above in the second two sections? I will quote three random examples from those I provided for you if you want.
- When he first deleted the two RfCs he wrote: "rv - see discussion with reviewing administrator; approval needed to start another RfC while one is already occurring."
- When he deleted a fact tag that JimWae put into the lede: "rv excessive tagging per talk; tag is already extant in header; do not subvert previous consensus but gain consensus for potential additions per administrative notice"
- When he rejected another recent change to the entry: "accepted edits by User:Jkhwiki; rv removal of longstanding referenced content - see discussion on talk page and gain consensus for action per administrative injunction"
- In talk page comments and in edit summaries he consistently does the same thing. He refers to your authority, either directly or indirectly through your "notice" or your "injunction" as he likes to call it. I never said the claimed to have administrative authority, I said that he's using your authority, by way of your comments, such as the closure of the AfD to bully people. Do you deny that he citing your comments, because if you do then I must have fabricated those quotes. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:32, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
If you say "If you don't do A, then I'm going to go and do B", that's a threat. Anyway, that's not the issue - we've already covered all the issues with the RfC reverting, and Anupam won't do it again. Why keep raising hell over it?
We've already covered everything you bring up. And no, I'm not denying anything. I'm just saying this, and it's very simple: I don't think there has been any blatant ownership here. That's my judgment. If you disagree, again, feel free to raise this with another administrator or on ANI. m.o.p 23:12, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Regarding the new RFC, I still think there has not passed yet too much time since the last discussion about splitting the article. As far as I knew, repeating these sorts of debates (like splitting, deleting, renaming) before a larger amount of time has passed (like 6 months) is usually discouraged. And as others have also argued earlier, even if having multiple RFCs is possible, it's not very useful, and the new RFC seems to discourage further discussion about improving the lead introduction. So preventing multiple RFCs (and also a RFC about an issue debated not too long ago) does not look to me like evidence of bad faith intentions. Cody7777777 (talk) 21:37, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Cody, would you mind linking me to the previous RfC on splitting? m.o.p 21:49, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- The previous attempt to split the article can be found here. Cody7777777 (talk) 21:55, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Response
Yes, it does. Thanks, m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Dear User:Master of Puppets, I just noticed that User:Binksternet started another RfC while a current one is occurring. Is this appropriate? I reverted the addition motioning for one until your response is confirmed. If it is acceptable, then I apologize and will revert my edit. I look forward to your response. With regards, AnupamTalk 15:14, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'll form my reply on ANI. m.o.p 17:12, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- When you do please take into account my comment just above, regarding Anupam's edit warring to remove talk page comments (namely these RfCs) posted by others on the talk page. If you still don't think this is WP:OWN then clearly other administrators are needed here.Griswaldo (talk) 17:15, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Dear User:Griswaldo, how is going to a neutral mediator to address the issue owning the article? I acknowledge that the article is in dispute and as a result, I am asking an administrator for advice in this matter, NOT handling things on my own, as you have done by edit warring. Your WP:OWN allegations have not only been dismissed by this administrator, but by several other users, including, User:Lionelt, User:Cody7777777 and User:NYyankees51. Thanks, AnupamTalk 17:27, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- In reply to Griswaldo: reverting the RfCs was a mistake, but we've cleared that up now. As Anupam has stated at ANI, the intent was not to discourage discussion. If you think my judgment is compromised, you're welcome to seek another administrator's input. m.o.p 21:04, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- And as further evidence of WP:OWN, see this. Anupam adds a comment to everything that anyone else says, as if he/she is the owner of the article and everyone else is a subordinate contributor. This particular instance is pretty benign (although it clutters up the talk page with an unnecessary comment that merely says "I agree"), but I do think that Anupam at least needs to learn how to avoid giving the appearance of thinking he/she owns the article, and to desist from chipping in and saying the same thing over and over again, which almost makes meaningful discussion impossible! SNALWIBMA ( talk - contribs ) 17:31, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- While the input is appreciated, as I've said before, making allegations of ownership without hard evidence isn't going to get us anywhere. Anupam is not stopping others from discussing changes or forming consensus, and that's all that matters - refactoring the talk page or commenting on an issue is not against policy, and I'm not going to tell someone to stop editing because it "looks" like they're doing something wrong. As said above, you're welcome to request another administrator's insight if you wish. m.o.p 21:04, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
COIHi
you've helped me out before, with a conflict of interest problem, so having much more experience than me on wikipedia, I thought I would be bold enough to ask again for help.
Similar problem to last, User_talk:Hobbycraft is editing the HOBBYCRAFT article and making changes that aren't citably right. I think the user name suggest and history suggests a conflict of interest case.
Can you please, speak to them addressing this issue.
Thank you very much for your help.
Markcoulter50 (talk) 22:27, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
- I've blocked that user for username violations. Thanks a lot for letting me know! Keep up the great work, m.o.p 23:00, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkbackcausa sui (talk) 18:47, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Hello. You have a new message at causa sui's talk page. causa sui (talk) 20:54, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Problematic editing on militant atheism
- I hope it's not considered defamatory to repeat the final line: "I merely present the diffs above, and let others draw their own conclusions. Is this a duck? Does it quack? You decide.". Unfortunately, the concerned community no longer has that opportunity. What did you decide on their behalf? Does this duck quack, or not? bobrayner (talk) 15:42, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- It's not your wording, it's the very idea of it. Going to what's allegorically a public place and shouting, "Hey, everybody, this man is a criminal!" is one step below blatantly forming a lynch mob. As I've said, I have no problem with your wording or evidence, just your location of choice. Wikipedia is not, unfortunately, a democracy - letting others draw their conclusions and voice their opinions is not how a sockpuppet investigation works.
- So yes, please don't go restoring any of that section. We're not discussing editors, we're discussing the content they produce. Anything else has a sub-board to deal with it (like WP:SPI).
- Hopefully that clears things up! I'll be happy to answer any more questions should you have them. Cheers, m.o.p 15:48, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Hello User:Bobrayner, I noticed the section you created on the militant atheism talk page. If you do feel the way you do about User:Turnsalso and the anonymous IP Addresses, you can take this up with WP:SPI. Thanks, AnupamTalk 15:52, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
Are you kidding my MoP? Above your write: Going to what's allegorically a public place and shouting, "Hey, everybody, this man is a criminal!" is one step below blatantly forming a lynch mob. AND We're not discussing editors, we're discussing the content they produce. Yet you call this edit by Lionelt "good faith," at WQA? MoP, I would not ask you to agree with me or to like me, but can I please ask you not to insult me with these double standards.Griswaldo (talk) 16:18, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
]
- Griswaldo, I mean no offense when I say this, but I'd appreciate it if you stayed out of discussions which didn't involve you. Also, please don't put words in my mouth. Thanks, m.o.p 16:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I have not put words in your mouth. You said that you would assume good faith about Lionel. If you "assume good faith" it means you assume his edits were in "good faith." If you did not intend that meaning I suggest you reconsider what you wrote. Also, if you want me to "stay out of discussion which don't involve me" then I suggest your first order of business should be to do the same thing yourself. You decided to post at WQA, when there was no mention of you or anything you've done in that thread. Once again, I expect people not to practice double standards. So as long as you cannot show me that you will treat me as you ask to be treated yourself, I will not oblige you. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:21, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Please stop bickering. I'm not quite sure what you're trying to accomplish here. I've already explained what I meant when I said assuming good faith, but I'll explain again: I assumed that Lionelt was not hounding or deliberately haranguing you. I did not say, at any point, that his edit content was good faith, and I've told him not to edit like that again. So please stop accusing me of saying things I haven't said.
- Also, I posted in WQA because, as a mediator in this case and as an administrator, it's my duty to weigh in on administrative noticeboards, especially when the case is an ongoing discussion I've been participating in for three months. It is not your duty to weigh in on discussions on my talk page that don't concern you. I hope the distinction is clear here. m.o.p 20:33, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I think you are confused about something. Content is never good faith. "Editing in good faith" and "good faith edits" refers to the intent of the editor always. It has nothing to do with content. My assumption that you also felt the edits were appropriate comes from the fact that you did not say they weren't appropriate and clearly feel that his intentions were good. If you'd like to set the record straight on that issue you still can. I've asked you twice now to discuss the actual edits that are the focal point of the thread. Also, I moved the thread to ANI, per the suggestion of the editor who marked it "resolved."Griswaldo (talk) 20:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- See Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#User:Lionelt_--_following_my_past_edits_to_drum_up_support_against_me. FYI, I copy pasted the entire discussion because both you and Collect were critical of my initial post and I thought it was the right thing to do to preserve that criticism in the record of the conversation. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:43, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- In reply to your first paragraph: I'm going to give up now, as it seems you're misunderstanding most of what I type, but you're the one who stated that the content was not good faith (as you said, not appropriate), and I agreed - I referred to his intent in replying to you, and said that I assumed good faith in his motives, not his replies. I can't really say that in a clearer way, so my apologies if it's hard to understand. Also, as I've already said, I've left a message for Lionelt about his edits, so clearly I do not feel they're appropriate. m.o.p 20:57, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I, too, find these double standards vexing.
- Which diff is defamatory?
- I had hitherto thought that people on the article talkpage might like to be aware of potential problems with votestacking on the article talkpage (and 3rr evasion, of course). Would it be permitted to add a link to that list of diffs when it's in a different place, or would you consider that defamatory too? bobrayner (talk) 16:23, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- As I said, the information is not defamatory, but the way it's presented is - we have specific processes available to pursue should one feel there are sockpuppets about. However, calling someone out with the intent of informing the community is overstepping your authority and damaging to the accused's character. Also, there's no way a community discussion about whether or not one editor is a sockpuppet can end in anything other than a sockpuppet investigation anyway.
- So, in closing, please don't bring issues like this to the talk page. If you're concerned about votestacking, take it to the appropriate venue - if your concerns are validated, we'll take measures against said puppets. Cheers, m.o.p 16:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I am very disappointed that it's no longer permissible to raise problems with article-editing on the article talkpage. Previous concerns about sockpuppetry were simply ignored; the difference this time is that it's backed by lots of diffs.
- I'm fairly confident that the people concerned have sufficient technical nous to make checkuser draw a blank. And, let's be entirely honest, within minutes of me creating an SPI, an admin of the right persuasion will be getting an email suggesting that an SPI needs their attention. And SPI does not see offsite coordination by a facebook group &c. Finally, any null result at SPI will be used at the article in much the same way as previous administrative decisions have been. So, I do not believe that an SPI will improve either the article, or the encyclopædia as a whole. bobrayner (talk) 17:08, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- If you don't think the pre-existing methods set in place for situations like this are sufficient, you can always raise that concern at the village pump or suggest a policy revision - however, SPI is the venue for these requests, and the only venue. The talk page can not substitute. m.o.p 17:10, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
76.228.226.122Thank you for blocking the anonymous user, who is being counterproductive and rude. (although I think the block should have been one week, but I guess ok at least)
Can you also please try to hide the edit summaries of these edits if possible?
This and
this
Thanks and regards, talk 05:04, 26 September 2011 (UTC)]
- I'll extend the block if this behaviour continues after the block period is over.
- As for the edit summaries, those don't warrant hiding - I apologize for their content, but they don't meet the criteria of what I should remove. It's best just to ignore them for now. Cheers, m.o.p 05:13, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
- Okay, good to know, if I did nothing wrong, no permanent block will be enforced. The IP does not volunteer on WP as an admin and so the disproportionately out of line comments and threats of his should be ignored. --talk 05:19, 26 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Sounds good. We only hide extremely offensive revisions; milder ones stay in the edit history. Thanks again for bringing this to our attention! Cheers, m.o.p 05:31, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
Email
Jasper Deng (talk) 05:29, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
- Reading. talk) 06:00, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Bad Girls Club
- I've blocked Junebea for 2 days for disregarding warnings. m.o.p 20:30, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks for helping :) Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 21:06, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkback
- And again.Griswaldo (talk) 04:24, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
- And again ... but maybe the last. You can settle this question once and for all. See the talk page.Griswaldo (talk) 06:09, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'm sure I'm not alone in wanting to hear your replies to the last responses posed to you at that page. IMO, I don't know why you went down the road you did, but as far as I can tell you're blatantly misrepesenting facts about your own actions when people are brining concerns to you. You might think that since you closed the RfC the matter is settled, but it is not. You're actions have not made my life any more pleasant in the last few days vis-a-vis trying to deal with Anupam's disruption and I think you owe us all answers. So please revisit this thread and deal with the open questions. Thanks.Griswaldo (talk) 02:19, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
- I invite you to stop asking the same question again and again. This would be appreciated. Thanks, m.o.p 02:33, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Block question
- No, I just block obviously bad-faith accounts on sight. Advertising/spam accounts fall under that category. m.o.p 00:37, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Thanks
- Thank you. I've unlocked the article for whatever may come. If I'm needed again, feel free to let me know. Thanks for the kind words again, m.o.p 05:12, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
reminder
- We're still waiting to see if the user understands COI policy (per Ed's question). I'll prod the user and see if they'll answer. talk) 19:20, 30 September 2011 (UTC)]
Nextel logo deleted
- Mmm, good point. What's the link to the logo in question? m.o.p 01:33, 2 October 2011 (UTC)
Support of Sage City SymphonyYou deleted this page before I had a chance to go back in and add the stuff that you wanted to see, including the links within Wikipedia to important composers such as Lou Callabro (who started this orchestra and cites it in his Wikipedia page) and Susan Hurley whose work we premiered (SC is also mentioned in her Wikipedia entry). (Let alone links about the works we have performed.) And we have a web site at www.sagecitysymphony.org, have existed for over 35 yrs and are a significant cultural resource in the Bennington area such that we receive grants from local, statewide and national foundations.
I broke my wrist last weekend and am doing one-handed pecking so it'll take me a few days to get that loaded in. We are going out for a bit now, but I would appreciate your undeleting the page so that I don't have to re-invent the starting part when I go back in tomorrow to add links. Or delete it entirely so that I can start fresh - at this point either would work as long as I can start some serious work on it tomorrow. I am the webmaster by the way, so I do have access to content and more links.
Thank you, Celia Murray — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.228.127.119 (talk) 14:22, 1 October 2011 (UTC)
- It looks like fixed everything up. Best of luck, m.o.p 01:35, 2 October 2011 (UTC)]
Reply on Deterence's talk page
MA
After the beating you took you deserve a cold one--on me! Thanks for being fair and balanced – Lionel (talk) 03:55, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
- Hey, thanks! Glad to help out. :) m.o.p 03:56, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
Deletion of Mau5trap Recordings
--neocharles (talk) 07:33, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Existence does not equal notability - the subject has to be notable to get a Wikipedia page. m.o.p 12:05, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
Questoin re: AIV
- Addendum, actually, I read it very clearly in WP:VANDNOT: "Uploading or using material on Wikipedia in violation of Wikipedia's copyright policies is prohibited, but is not vandalism unless the user does so maliciously or fails to heed warnings." So if a person fails to heed warnings it is vandalism. My mistake here was that I only warned once. --Muhandes (talk) 12:29, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Eh, technically it is vandalism, but the user seems to be trying to improve the Wikipedia - that desire to help is misplaced in this case, as they seem to think that using copyrighted content is actually better. Weird. For most cases, yes, you should report copyvio to AIV - as long as they've been warned sufficiently. m.o.p 12:42, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- OK, he now did it again and the time stamp is after your last warning. Is it vandalism now? --Muhandes (talk) 12:32, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Yeah, if they're outright ignoring warnings. I've blocked for three days. m.o.p 12:40, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
Classmusic
- Oh, I know. But if somebody's lied to my face about using another account - and to other editors working on the article - I'm not about to let them go without a repercussion or two. I'd like Almost-instinct and Voceditnore to look over the article and fix up anything shifty. Also, I'd like Classmusic to respond to my warning, instead of blanking it and ignoring like they have to the above-named editors.
- So, in short, I know that COI doesn't bar editing, but it's enough of a concern that, given the user's recent behaviour, I'll stop them from doing anything until we've figured things out. This isn't too rouge-y, is it? I didn't hear that. Perhaps he is unaware of the sockpuppet investigation findings. Anyhow it seems that DeltaQuad has also blocked the Classmusic account. I left a note on his page about using the unblock template, but re-iterated that he needs to read the COI and Autobiography guidelines and stick to them scrupulously, if he gets unblocked. In the Opera and Classical Music WikiProjects, we get a lot of articles for performers, ensembles, etc. created by their agents and PR people, and often themselves. In my experience, the best I can hope for after one of these tussles is that they'll edit their article according to the guidelines in future. I have yet to find a single one who has ever contributed anything else to Wikipedia. Their only interest in the project is as a PR tool. Having said that, at least it results (after much red-pencilling from other editors) in one new article on a notable subject that we didn't have before and in a small way redresses the pop culture systemic bias here. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 13:40, 5 October 2011 (UTC)]
Danish election
- Never mind, it's been pulled by another admin. All the best, Jenks24 (talk) 11:03, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry about that! I was busy all day and didn't get your message until now. Thanks for letting me know, though! Cheers, m.o.p 19:51, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
3RRHey there! :)
Well WP:CRYSTAL has wined down, however, there's currently a
The Bad Girls Club (season 7). I have notified the two users [32], [33]. The evidence can be found here. They are having an edit-conflict on how the "Duration of cast" should be presented. Since there's no rules regarding anything like that, and it was made up about a year ago, I couldn't warned them to stop their e/c with anything except the 3RR rule. Maybe they need an admin to tell them to stop, so that's why I came to you :) Thanks, Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 01:17, 6 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Temporary page protection requested. Calabe1992 (talk) 01:29, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
Help possible need
Wikipedia Ambassador Program is looking for new Online AmbassadorsHi! Since you've been identified as an Awesome Wikipedian, I wanted to let you know about the Online Ambassador. We're looking for friendly Wikipedians who are good at reviewing articles and giving feedback to serve as mentors for students who are assigned to write for Wikipedia in their classes.
If you're interested, I encourage you to take a look at the Online Ambassador guidelines; the "mentorship process" describes roughly what will be expected of mentors during the current term, which started in January and goes through early May. If that's something you want to do, please apply!
You can find instructions for applying at WP:ONLINE.
I hope to hear from you soon.--Sage Ross - Online Facilitator, Wikimedia Foundation (talk) 19:27, 8 February 2011 (UTC)
talk page.
- See a log of files removed today here.
- Shut off the bot here.
- Report errors here.
Thank you, -- DASHBot (talk) 05:10, 9 February 2011 (UTC)
Mail
00:05, 10 February 2011 (UTC)
Wait
- How was this a copy-paste move? It was a recreation of a deleted article. Sasata (talk) 23:46, 10 February 2011 (UTC)
- Which was, to my knowledge, notabilified. Is that a word? m.o.p 01:05, 11 February 2011 (UTC)
:D![](//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/29/Choco_chip_cookie_bitten.jpg/100px-Choco_chip_cookie_bitten.jpg)
CharlieEchoTango has eaten your {{cookie}}! The cookie made them happy and they'd like to give you a great big hug for donating it. Spread the WikiLove by giving out more {{cookie}}s, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend. Thanks again!
Spread the goodness of cookies by adding {{subst:cookie}} to someone's talk page with a friendly message, or eat a cookie with {{subst:munch}}!
[[CharlieEchoTango]] 01:38, 11 February 2011 (UTC)
Blanking of material at The Deputy
- MOP, how would you feel about one month of full protection for this article? I see that Ekwos has stopped by to remove the section again. The dispute about the KGB connection has been running for almost a year now. Full protection could motivate people to discuss the issue, and perhaps create an RfC. Thanks EdJohnston (talk) 20:32, 11 February 2011 (UTC)
- One month of pending changes is better, I think. I don't like limiting legitimate editors, but this will disallow further warring from disrupting the 'pedia. m.o.p 07:10, 12 February 2011 (UTC)
Deletion of Gabriel Weinberg
- It wasn't my decision to delete the article. We had clear community consensus. Please stop taking thins personally. m.o.p 07:10, 12 February 2011 (UTC)
Edit summariesActually user:Zjarriretues is removing a reliable source [[1]] that mentions his ethnicity and places another that's more suitable to his national standarts. Although the source Zjarri. prefers is also 'rs' he did not disagree in the article's talkpage with my version [[2]].
Unfortunately when a couple of months passed you prefered to make his revert per
wp:ninja, without explaining the reason of this (very) delayed revert.Alexikoua (talk) 17:03, 14 February 2011 (UTC)]
I reverted myself, however, an explanation is needed in the talkpage by the user since he agreed in the past with the version I've presented on Aug..Alexikoua (talk) 17:14, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
Your friend the the IP
sent you an email
- One of your userboxes says you're only 17! I would have sworn you were older than that! ; ) --Kenatipo speak! 23:40, 16 February 2011 (UTC)
Godzilla
- I feel that it doesn't. If you check our crystal ball policy, you'll notice that it says, "It is appropriate to report discussion and arguments about the prospects for success of future proposals and projects or whether some development will occur, if discussion is properly referenced." That policy is meant to stop unsourced conjecture and speculation by editors, so I think we're fine in this case. The Hobbit film project with all its troubles). Here, with Godzilla, the reports are extremely normal. The studio announces its plans for a film, and a director is attached for it (which is not a guarantee). That's what it boils down to, and it's not enough to be more than a news source. Erik (talk | contribs) 16:11, 17 February 2011 (UTC)
- I appreciate that you've explained your position to me (though I did read your points in the AFD thread) but I can't delve into stuff like this. If you're not happy with my close, you're fully welcome to ask another administrator or even open another AFD. m.o.p 16:15, 17 February 2011 (UTC)
- I won't do anything for now. I would just prefer to keep such articles a rarity. Following films for some time, a lot of people tend to create an article about a film the moment it is announced (or the moment something new happens, like a new director). I do like to report discussion (did so at Concrete Island) but it's more a matter of where for me, to ensure topics of enduring notability. I did want to ask, do you think a merge discussion in general would be more beneficial? I feel like an AFD like that foments a keep-or-delete mentality that overrides the in-between solution of reporting discussion under a broader article until we can be near certain a film will exist. Erik (talk | contribs) 16:21, 17 February 2011 (UTC)
- A merge discussion would be great; I could weigh in and such. Feel free to open one up if you'd like to. m.o.p 23:03, 17 February 2011 (UTC)
]
Please respond
userspace
Talkback 16:14, 19 February 2011 (UTC)
Protect my talk page
- Lately, this IP also misused the edit war template on my talk page.Jasper Deng (talk) 00:37, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
Block an IP
E-Mail
nice guyhiii master of puppets,
ok do u know the movie Twilght saga ?
rply me back i want 2 talk 2 u a lot because i like ur pesonalty.BY
talk) 11:58, 28 April 2011 (UTC)]
File source problem with File:MoPuppetarmy.pngThank you for uploading File:MoPuppetarmy.png. I noticed that the file's description page currently doesn't specify who created the content, so the copyright status is unclear. If you did not create this file yourself, you will need to specify the owner of the copyright. If you obtained it from a website, please add a link to the website from which it was taken, together with a brief restatement of that website's terms of use of its content. However, if the copyright holder is a party unaffiliated from the website's publisher, that copyright should also be acknowledged.
If you have uploaded other files, consider verifying that you have specified sources for those files as well. You can find a list of files you have created in your upload log. Unsourced and untagged images may be deleted one week after they have been tagged per Wikipedia's criteria for speedy deletion, F4. If the image is copyrighted and non-free, the image will be deleted 48 hours after 11:44, 11 May 2011 (UTC) per speedy deletion criterion F7. If the file is already gone, you can still make a request for undeletion and ask for a chance to fix the problem. You may wish to read the Wikipedia's image use policy. If you have any questions or are in need of assistance please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. Magog the Ogre (talk) 11:44, 11 May 2011 (UTC)
The Deputy
- Thanks for your reply. My concern was not that Jayjg indicated he would rewrite and did not do so, but that he had agreed to allow more of the disputed section in the article rather than a dismissive sentence or two, but when editors began to delete the entire section based on frivolous reasons, he supported it. It appears now that we have, or are in the process of reaching a resolution. The section is now in the article, reduced substantially to account of Jayjg's concers about undue weight. Mamalujo (talk) 18:40, 27 May 2011 (UTC)
Carla Rushing page deletion
Any further discussion of Sarah Palin will result in a warning, and then a temporary block. Thank you!Hmmm, that might be just a tad excessive. We don't want to suppress all discussion, because that's when the pressure has nowhere to go, and people will go and meatball:ExpandScope.
Since scope is already expanded to international media, forcing scope to expand further might be a bit of a Bad Idea (tm). I recommend Not Going There.
If we're really intent on keeping discussions off of WP, we can always create a wikinews article, and link to the "discuss this article" page.
However, at the moment, people seem to be keeping it down to a dull roar anyway.
--Kim Bruning (talk) 22:44, 6 June 2011 (UTC)
- I think you caught my side point, but I'd like to stress the part I'm trying to tell you to watch out for!
- Long term empirical experience shows that attempts to curtail discussion on wikipedia will not slow down the internet discussion elsewhere (or even on wikipedia). Instead, that's exactly what will feed it more and more steam. So Don't Do That.
- Experience shows that the following approaches work:
- Try to centralize all (spurious) discussion in one place
- keep it as focused on encyclopedic work as possible.
- Treat the new users like new users. They don't know our rules yet. Teach them!
- The foundation would like to see us be more welcoming towards new users. That's a good idea! Let's do that.
- --Kim Bruning (talk) 00:26, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
- And... it went to AN/I (see below) --Kim Bruning (talk) 01:33, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
Edit Notice on Paul RevereYou seem to be asserting some admin right to quench discussion on the talk page by blocking and/or warning with the editnotice that I don't think we have, by policy. IAR doesn't cover stomping on people, no matter how annoying a particular conversation is.
Kelly started a
WP:ANI discussion on this.
Followups probably best on ANI as I am sure others will want to comment. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 01:15, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
- On review - I'm going to blank the edit notice now. If an ANI consensus develops to support restoring it then I'll not object at all, but I think it's novel and enough of a stretch that the default should be "no" unless consensus develops otherwise. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 01:19, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
How does a user find a mentor?
Helen Lucy Burke
Talkback
I did what you asked but the IP reverted it again. PTJoshua (talk) 21:09, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
- You're removing everything I say. Please don't do this. It isn't helpful. --86.45.75.42 (talk) 21:19, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
- I'll talk to them. Sit tight for a second. m.o.p 21:10, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
RE: Deletion of 48gogreen page :ApalejaHello,
Thank you for quick response. I appreciate your reason. but if you do some research you'll find more then 4 or 5 substantial mentions in local or international media - in a newspaper, on a notable website, etc. - to put forward this article.
There is a link on official website of company. http://www.48gogreen.com/static/web
Looking forward for your response. thank you in advance to undelete article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Apaleja (talk • contribs) 08:03, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
Here are some articles from International Press (you can use Google translator-if you use chrome it'll provide option immediately):
http://www.regione.emilia-romagna.it/wcm/cinema/sezioni_primopiano/PrimoPiano/Gadoev.htm
http://domani.arcoiris.tv/girano-un-corto-in-48-ore-e-arrivano-dritti-a-cannes/
http://www.close-up.it/spip.php?article6724
http://www.flashvideo.it/news/9/2578/
http://www.radioemiliaromagna.it/cultura/cinema/videomaker_bolognesi_cannes_corto_ecologico.aspx
Also if YOU HAD READ careful our site you should have see the Press link (those are press links not blogs) with all these web press: http://www.48gogreen.com/static/web
Thank you — Preceding unsigned comment added by Apaleja (talk • contribs) 08:22, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
Final warning On Edit Warring of Efik language disputeIf My Reporting a false article is the reason you want to block me. Then Go ahead and BLOCK me.- I can be Block because I don't care to be part of a web/Encyclopedia of Lies! Although I have contributed anonymously to wikipedia since 2008, I only just signed on a few weeks ago to report an error that I thought was made. But you and your other BIASED administrators have refused to fix this error, instead you're all threatening to block me.
- : According to Wikipedia A false statement/article is removed immediatley it is realized. Yet as am reporting it you all are threatening me for causing disruption.
- You all are saying that I called I called Kwami Slow, Dumb etc. Yet Kwami used the words Ignorance first.
"As for Ukwa, your ignorance is not evidence of anything".
- What is the meaning of IGNORANCE? S/He also said;
"But we cannot have the same article under two names, nor an article on Ibibio-Efik that does not include Ibibio, nor an article on Efik that does not include Efik. A little common sense would be helpful."
- What is meaning of Common sense? Or because Kwami put it very nicely, and mine wasn't? Also I wasn't blanking the Efik page, since I just signed on it takes me a long while to write up an article. According to the statements above, Kwami said I could develop articles on Efik and Ibibio, that is what I was doing when you or your other BIASED administrators returned the articles back to the re-direct.
- : Since wikipedia says a false statement is fixed immediately it is reported, I explained out the mistakes, but Kwami kept insisting that me a native who speaks these languages was wrong and asked for sources. I provided the sources and Kwami Called A brilliant Historian who is a Million times more knowledgable than Kwami on the language;
"utterly ignorant AND not some random idiot who posted a web page".
- Yet you and your other Biased colleges are claiming that am the one attacking Kwami and causing a disruption.
- : Am done with Wikipedia, am going to be taking this issues to the Founder/head by email, once the Ibibio union are involved it might become a legal matter if Wikipedia still continues to portray this misleading information.
I will take this matter to the heads by Email first because they might not be aware of what you all supposed administrators are doing to their image. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ibibiogrl (talk • contribs) 21:41, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
Hi Mops,
Pls read my comments on the ANI page. I think Ibibiogrl means well, she just needs some guidance, and she's not willing to take it from me. — kwami (talk) 22:17, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
- Obviously we would like to have contributors from that part of the world, but Ibibiogrl's record here is so unpromising that I think we need good assurances that something will change in the future. (I would welcome any evidence that Ibibiogrl means well. It is hard to improve the encyclopedia when you have no interest in or respect for its policies. Read her statement above if you are uncertain about that). Mentorship has value only for someone who understands that something has gone wrong and would be willing to work with a mentor. EdJohnston (talk) 22:46, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
- I agree with Ed in this case - I have no grudge against Ibibiogrl, but the editor's attitude, despite multiple pleas for otherwise, remained combative and even insulting at points. If there's a serious expression of guilt and the editor decides they'd like to walk a different path, I'd be happy to help. However, as it is now, I believe the block should stand. m.o.p 22:52, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
- I agree that it would require some indication that she wants help. Just my 2¢ as the person she's most upset with. — kwami (talk) 23:05, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
- For the record, your input is highly appreciated, and very admirable; as the editor in conflict with her, I respect your neutrality and helpfulness. As for Ibibiogrl, we'll see where that goes. Cheers! m.o.p 00:59, 17 June 2011 (UTC)
Can you adopt me i want a new adopter.
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Mr. Pit (2nd nomination)
This isn't personalI belive the AFD on Campaign for "santorum" neologism was closed way to early and am contesting your close.
An editor has asked for a deletion review of Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2011 June 21. Because you closed the deletion discussion for this page, speedily deleted it, or otherwise were interested in the page, you might want to participate in the deletion review. KoshVorlon' Naluboutes Aeria Gloris 12:17, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
James Ball
Thank you for your concern. But I will not be blocked - _I am adding_ wikipedia to adblock. I also feel regret for having donated to the site before, but this will not happen again. Demonuminon (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 23:25, 23 June 2011 (UTC).
Thomas James BallWhy the hell did you delete his page?
Does his suffering mean nothing to you?
Heartless bitch. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.57.206.141 (talk • contribs)
Hey, Master of Puppets, OBVIOUSLY there is a public interested in keeping this article. Restore your deletion. Look at the massive flood of comments regarding your deletion here: http://www.<linkremoved>.com/2011/06/24/the-organized-silencing-of-a-man-publicly-burned-to-death/ and here http://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/i81rw/the_organized_silencing_of_a_man_publicly_burned/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Romerom (talk • contribs) 20:05, 24 June 2011 (UTC)
- Ball HIT A FOUR-YEAR-OLD CHILD, refused to pay child support, called for insurrection, demanded terrorism and violence as a solution, ultimately killed himself (leaving his children without a father) and damaged public property in the process. Even after all that, his incoherent message has mostly been ignored except by the less discriminating people claiming to speak for "men's rights" who haven't bothered to look into the details of his case. (If you really want to damage your cause, adopt a grown man who hits his own four-year-old child and flakes out on his child support as your poster boy.) --Orange Mike | Talk 20:26, 24 June 2011 (UTC) (proud father who has never hit his child in his lifetime)
Hey, "proud father who never hit his child in his lifetime", not everybody is against disciplining their children by spanking. He said his daughter was licking his hand, and he had told her repeatedly to stop. She didn't, and he smacked her. He didn't punch her, or send her to the hospital, or cause any serious injury. Just enough to have his wife baited into calling the police on him by child protective services. As for child support, he paid his child support until the point where he wasn't able to afford it due to an employment issue. Is that such a crazy thing to have happen? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.211.155.1 (talk) 04:28, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
- Again, while I do sympathize with the family and supporters, I am not taking sides, nor do I have any bias in this situation. I am not a feminist, nor am I a misogynist - I am fair and neutral towards all people, whether they be abusive fathers or abused fathers.
- This deletion was enforced solely in keeping with Wikipedia's long-established policies. Mr. Ball's death, while indeed tragic, was not reported throughout the reliable media enough to show his notability.
- I hope this makes sense to all those saddened by Mr. Ball's passing. Cheers, m.o.p 21:04, 24 June 2011 (UTC)
- I understand that you do not think that Mr. Ball's death is something that qualifies as an event and thus deleted said article. I disagree but I do see the merits of your argument. However, you claim to be unbiased in this debate and yet for someone who judges on the letter of the law you break the law and close debate 2.5 days before final judgment is to be rendered. If you have no corner then I ask why make this article a special case that it must be quelled , by your own admission, 2.5 days before any other articles found in similar circumstances are voted upon. I petition you to reinstate and allow the normal course of the discussion continue for the 2.5 days, allow the full opportunity for the pro side to make their case then recluse yourself from the final judgment. This is the only way to ensure transparency so that your claim of neutrality can be believed. CaffOMHW (talk) 03:28, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
- Ahead of things, let me tell you that I appreciate the civility.
- Wikipedia's policies aren't law - they're guidelines. As an administrator, it's my job to apply policy in a way that is completely devoid of bias and benefits the encyclopedia as a whole.
- On a side note, the deletion nomination was closed 1.5 days before the normal time. The page had a whole work week to be saved, rewritten or reworked; however, due to the lack of outside sourcing that carried reliability, there was nothing to keep that wasn't editorialized or unencyclopedic. I would also like to point out that almost every account that voiced their opinion in the 'keep' spectrum had either only edited that page or had edited very little aside from the page. Meanwhile, the deletion argument was put forward by experienced users.
- Though I understand that some people take offense to my early closure, I assure them that one extra day would not have yielded success, and that I took many factors into consideration before closing the discussion.
- Again, thank you for the civility, but I won't be overturning judgment or recreating a deletion discussion at this date. m.o.p 08:17, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
ITNthx for the 2 quick updates of my nom ;)
but also can you see the bolivia one. its got support and very nearly out of the news. we could tack it nearer the border.Lihaas (talk) 22:26, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
Ball closure.
Thank God you are an ambassador for WP, and against censorship, MoP. When Wikipedia fails, and it eventually will, it will largely be because most people don't like to be gamed and would rather not read well cultivated information that is maintained by dishonest brokers who hide behind rules that are never applied in an even-handed manner. The idea that a story is not relevant merely because it is not yet encyclopedic is ridiculous when one sees all the articles which linger on for months or years in the same state. The idea that a story is not relevant because the motivations/justifications of the user are suspect would be grounds for eliminating half the biographical articles in WP. It smacks of an agenda. The appearance of impropriety is as bad as actual impropriety.173.78.20.96 (talk) 04:51, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
- I appreciate the feedback.
- I do my best to maintain an equal, proportionate response in all dealings on Wikipedia; I don't defend things I like, or attack things I dislike, just for the reason of screwing with people. That strikes me as childish. Instead, the most I can do is try to help others understand Wikipedia policies, which are generally mind-bending and hard to grasp (for example, most people ask, "What's the reasoning a war hero isn't considered notable when Donkey Kong is?").
- Maybe one day the policies will change. I mean, most of these were written five, six year ago - the world's changing, and I expect they will with time. But, for now, the guidelines handle what comes in.
- Again, thanks for the input. I appreciate not being personally attacked - it makes it easier to reply. Cheers, m.o.p 05:08, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Natami (2nd nomination)
- The close was thoroughly thought-out, so there's not much ground for me to explore that I haven't already. If you're set on going to DRV, there's nothing I can say which will change your mind, and it's your right to ask for a review. However, current consensus sits at delete (unless the 'keep' side is hiding an ace-in-the-hole reliable source or something). Cheers, m.o.p 04:55, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- So, what about the reliable sources we already brought up in the AfD such as this interview in Amiga Future or this news article from nr2.ru? We've already established that Amiga Future isn't sponsored by a hardware company as one !voter there falsely claimed. On a related note, did you discount the !votes from individuals making misleading statements or those claiming there were "no independent reliable sources"? (I could tell you how that !voter happened to show up there, but he isn't going to like it.) I could also link to forum posts by another delete !voter who showed up there who was very much into a "delete at any cost" mode because he doesn't like "amiga clones". --Tothwolf (talk) 05:11, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- Those sources were there before the previous close, and I, like the previous administrator, do not think they're strong enough.
- I've already covered what kind of rationale was discounted and what wasn't.
- As for your last statement about other editors - I'm not quite sure what your point is, but I don't think it's relevant. As I said, I've discounted any rationale that does not apply policy.
- Cheers, m.o.p 05:33, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- Uh, no...nr2.ru was only brought up in the second AfD. Strong enough is also an argument to be made in a !vote, not a closing statement. --Tothwolf (talk) 05:56, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- My apologies, the Russian source was indeed added after the first AfD. Still too shaky for a stand-alone article, though. Cheers, m.o.p 13:42, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- To follow up on my earlier comment, while I don't really want to get into an "X did this because of Y" sort of thing with regards to this AfD, there were a number of delete !voters who showed up there for personal reasons/vendettas/bias and/or who made false statements about sources. Despite the template at the top of the AfD, the second AfD also didn't suffer from the forum canvassing that the first did. One of the delete !voters actually came by way of the forum and first AfD and was trolling because of his personal dislike of Amiga clones. --Tothwolf (talk) 15:33, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
If they have valid, policy-based rationale, their personal motivation doesn't matter, solely for the reason that an encyclopedia based on liking or disliking things would crumble instantly. I'm sure some of the deletion crew could just-as-easily blame keep voters for being enthusiasts and fans of Natami - but that's not important. As a result, making allegations of personal bias is unnecessary. The help is appreciated, but there's nothing I can do with the information. m.o.p 15:39, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- It matters when someone makes false statements and tries to hide what they are doing behind policy. As for keeps, quite a number appear to be from well established editors who don't appear to be all that interested in Amiga topics. As for myself, I wasn't even aware of NatAmi until the first AfD and didn't even !vote in the first AfD since I thought it was pretty obvious it was headed for a no-consensus close. --Tothwolf (talk) 15:58, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- Again, if their rationale is grounded in policy, their motivation does not matter, simply because it's impossible to discern someone's intent through text, and because the second someone accuses another of favoritism/malicious intent the entire argument turns into a bunch of people shouting, "You're lying." That's why there's nothing I can do with your information in this case. Cheers, m.o.p 16:02, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- Apologies to you, M.O.P., for addressing another editor on your talk page, but I just wanted to jump in this conversation. Tothwolf, with no prejudice against you at all I strongly suggest you take this in perspective. There have been two AFDs and an ANI report over this article. The way you treated me on my talk page threatening DRV because I was a new administrator was, as I feel it, borderline harassing. That you canvassed two other administrators to talk to me was also a below the belt move. In good faith, I relisted the debate and it has closed again as delete. I strongly suggest taking the advice at WP:DGAF into account here and let the issue go. I don't think there will be a problem recreating this article, even pulling the old content back from the deletion log, when the subject has better sources in a broader community. I hold no ill feeling toward you, this is purely honest advice.--v/r - TP 16:46, 27 June 2011 (UTC)]
- TParis, while you are correct in that this talk page is not the place for this, because you brought this up here and you seem to value honest feedback, I'll address this here.
In no way did I ever threaten you with DRV, let alone because you were a new administrator (discussion in question). I did however upon noticing that you had passed RFA only days earlier decide it best not to press you further in public and instead sent you this short email: "Sigh. I just noticed you just finished your RFA. The Natami AfD was a bad AfD to pick to close right out of the gate. It is likely to end up at DRV and given the magazine I mentioned, overturned. I really wish you would reconsider your close. You might have noticed I didn't even !vote in the AfD itself, however I did point out a number of things and took a couple of people to task for making false or misleading statements." That is the only email I sent you about the matter and not once did I ever threaten you with DRV. Please get your facts correct before making statements such as this because such mistakes can have a negative effect on others.
After you replied expressing your disagreement over the sources (and implied that I might be biased because I sometimes contribute to computing-related articles) I asked a number of other administrators (way more than two, actually) what they thought of the AfD's close because I wanted unbiased feedback to see if I was somehow totally off-track before I initiated a DRV. The feedback I got was fairly unanimous in that the close was problematic. Before I had a chance to draft a DRV however, you reverted your own close and relisted the AfD from scratch with a new listing. In no way did I ever "canvass" anyone to "talk to you" and if others did contact you directly, they did so at their own discretion and for their own reasons.
There indeed have been two AfDs, the first of which you closed (although one could also argue that the second was merely a relist of the first). The AN/I "discussion" you also mentioned wasn't really over this article or the first AfD, it was an attempt by someone to game AN/I when they were unable to bully me on their talk page. Please be more careful making these sort of blanket statements in the future because as I mentioned above such statements can cause problems for others. --Tothwolf (talk) 17:38, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- You're email was exactly like your reply here. You like to make threats without actually making them: "such statements can cause problems". There is very little way your email cannot be interpreted as anything other than a threat of DRV because I am a new administrator. This is all I'll say on M.O.P.'s talk page as I came here to offer honest advice and you don't seem interested in it. If you'd like to discuss further with me, you know where to find my talk page.--v/r - TP 17:51, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- TParis, in no way did I ever make an implied threat. While I may be a little blunt and abrasive at times (or maybe I'm just an assume good faith in that you simply misremembered the facts I outlined above when you made this statement here. It is easy to forget a few details here or there and not everyone maintains detailed notes for this sort of stuff (I do, for a number of reasons, although I didn't always).
As far as honest advice goes, this is a two-way street and I gave you my opinion as well. If you choose to ignore and discount it, so be it, but I'd suggest you be much more careful in the future and get your facts correct before you make the sort of statement you made above. Such statements can and do cause problems for other editors. Who knows, it may just be that you've not been around long enough yet to have witnessed people blocked or punished in some way because someone else didn't have their facts together. (If you do decide you want to continue this discussion, perhaps we should take this elsewhere.) --Tothwolf (talk) 18:14, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
]
Heaton Park Hebrew Congregation (2nd nomination)
Natami
Thought you might want to know
- (talk page stalker) That's just the same little ideological website which has been pushing for the "Martyrdom of St. Thomas Ball" attention since day one; no actual new coverage. --Orange Mike | Talk 14:34, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
- I guess I should also mention that the way I found it, was that someone tried submitting it to Fark.com last night. The admins did not greenlight it, so that particular submission/thread did not go to the main Fark page, appearing only to those with Totalfark accounts. The submission said something like "Wikipedia deletes burning man" (I'm not at a computer with TF access so I might not have that exactly right). It might, theoretically, based on the submission, be considered some sort of off-site canvassing (it was submitted with the asinine tag). For what its worth, the thread went uncommented, so I don't think that particular attempt garnered any support. I just wanted to drop a line in case that this was just the first drop of a large storm. If I see anything else, I'll drop a line here. Umbralcorax (talk) 15:58, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
Wiki ad
4chan raid
Thomas James Bell, new information
- (reliable sources. --Orange Mike | Talk 13:33, 30 June 2011 (UTC)]
Happy Birthday
![](//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3d/Nuvola_apps_cookie.svg/50px-Nuvola_apps_cookie.svg.png)
Just a happy Birthday message to you, Master of Puppets, from the Wikipedia Birthday Committee! Have a great day!
Monterey Bay (talk) 02:00, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
User:BillyMoses
Natami
AFD
- Your input is appreciated, though there's nothing I can do with it but take a note. If you'd like, you can weigh in at the next AfD(s), when/if they arise. Cheers, m.o.p 19:42, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
Dr Myko San – Health from Mushrooms
- I'd be happy to help! However, I'm currently away from a computer (typing this on my phone), so I'll have to check in on the 11th of July. Does that sound okay? m.o.p 15:40, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
- wp:NODEADLINE :-) LeadSongDog come howl! 15:48, 7 July 2011 (UTC)]
From a former Wikipedian
-71.234.90.0 (talk) 04:50, 8 July 2011 (UTC)
- Hey, thanks so much! I'm not sure who you are, but I really appreciate the sentiment. Hope all is well! m.o.p 20:49, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
Deletion review for Thomas James Ball
DRV comment
DRV
Could you please overturn the deletion of these files per File:Signature of Amitabh Bachchan.svg and File:Signature of Zakir Hussain.svg:
- File:Signature of Vishwanathan Anand.svg
- File:Signature of Vijay Mallya.svg
- File:Signature of Venkaiah Naidu.svg
- File:Signature of Sudeep Bandhopadhyay.svg
- File:Signature of Sonia Gandhi.svg
- File:Signature of Somnath Chatterjee.svg
- File:Signature of Ratan Tata.svg
- File:Signature of Kumar Mangalam Birla.svg
- File:Signature of Rajeev Shukla.svg
- File:Signature of Raj Babbar.svg
- File:Signature of Rahul Gandhi.svg
- File:Signature of Priyanka Vadra.svg
- File:Signature of P. T. Usha.svg
- File:Signature of Narendra Modi.svg
- File:Signature of Nandan Nilekani.svg
- File:Signature of Manish Tewari.svg
- File:Signature of Leander Paes.svg
- File:Signature of Lata Mangeshkar.svg
- File:Signature of Kumar Mangalam Birla.svg
- File:Signature of Karia Munda.svg
- File:Signature of Kapil Sibal.svg
- File:Signature of Kamal Nath.svg
- File:Signature of K. Kamraj.svg
- File:Signature of Jaya Bachchan.svg
- File:Signature of Gautam Gambhir.svg
- File:Signature of Brinda Karat.svg
- File:Signature of Bharatsinh Solanki.svg
- File:Signature of Bhairon Singh Shekhawat.svg
- File:Signature of B. K. Birla.svg
- File:Signature of Azim Premji.svg
- File:Signature of Arun Jaitely.svg
- File:Signature of Aishwarya Rai Bachchan.svg
- File:Signature of Abhishek Manu Singhvi.svg
- File:Signature of Abhishek Bachchan.svg
- File:Signature of Sting.svg
- File:Signature of Br. L. D. Lobo.svg
- File:Signature of VJ Rannvijay Singh Singha.svg
Diligent07Appears to be less than new. See User talk:Raoulduke25 where he states that this is a deliberate series of edits.
- Can you please help defend our collective effort of including the obscene middle-finger incident in the Cheney Mason article? It should be maintained in the article for public interest, etc. Please see the Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard#Cheney Mason discussion page and include your thoughts in favor of having the content remain in the interests of the public, etc
[8], [9] and even imputation that an editor has a connection with the person [10]. He has been on since April, and started off as being experienced on WP IMHO. Kindly keep an eye out please. Especially for any sign of a real "collective effort"? Such as [11]? Cheers. Collect (talk) 11:36, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
A cookie for you!
Keep up the good work defending the "Wiki" against genre warriors. Thanks for the help! talk) 17:31, 13 July 2011 (UTC)]
Hello. You have a new message at Lionelt's talk page.
Semi protection
OK, this thing with the militant atheism page is impossibleThese guys are incredible... I could dig up diffs to show you how they revert and wikilawyer even the SMALLEST attempt to move the article closer to NPOV. But that would take a long time for you to read. How about I show you this instead:
These guys are utterly without scruples. Who in their right mind would remove the NPOV dispute tag when heated arguments have been raging for weeks and NO moves whatsoever have been made to fix the article? Oh right, that would be someone in their right mind who is running a propaganda platform.
Anyway... I wanted to ask your advice on what to do. These guys are impossible to work with. Most of the other editors have given up and refuse to put this page on their watchlist. So what to do then? Request formal mediation? Articles for deletion? Something else?
Me and the other editors would like to see the page replaced with a disambiguation page... since literally ALL the content has already been covered (better) in Criticism of atheism, State atheism and New Atheism.
Obhave (talk) 13:21, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
- Hello User:Master of Puppets. I noticed this conversation and thought I might add that an NPOV policy. Obhave (talk) 13:11, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
- One more thing, m.o.p... my opponents are currently twisting your words to make it look as if you were scolding user:Mann_jess all along. Obhave (talk) 14:42, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
]
User:Jasper Deng page protection
- No worries! m.o.p 19:35, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
Is there a procedure for brutal uncollaborated editing with a destructive intent?I noticed that you recently had problems with proposed brutal editing by Peter S Strempel. Although he has been more sensible on your project in the end (possibly because of your administrator status?) he has not been so with regard to the astrology project pages to which he made a similar 'razor-promise'. Could you please see this Afd request which is one of three he made for major 'history of astrology' articles within the last hour, with a promise on another important page that any comment which is not refrences within 7 days will be removed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Babylonian_astrology
Is there anything that can be done about this officially to stop him wreaking havoc with content whilst he knows that the small group of editors providing content on these pages are already stretched to the limit trying to keep up with what needs to be done? I don't understand what drives some people to want to edit WP like this, but I think it is entriely the result of his ego-stress that when he proposed an edit for a passage, no one favoured it. Hope you can help or advise Zac Δ talk 01:15, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks! assume good faith; I believe that Peter is simply trying to help improve Wikipedia. While his methods may be lacking in some areas, he has displayed a pretty decent grasp on the policies he's trying to enforce.
- However, I agree that he shouldn't be making any changes if they're not discussed with the community first. Do you mind pulling up a few diffs of where he went against consensus? I'll approach him with your concern then. Thanks, m.o.p 03:57, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
- Actually there hasn't been any significant content dispute with Peter. He proposed a change to a section edit which wasn't a very good proposition and a few editors commented but without rancur, and I added a new section post immediately afterwards to point out the proiposed change would contradict with how the definition was given correctly at a later point in the article, outlining how I understood WP policy expected the main astrology article to pull its own content together, along with its summarised content from its daughter pages. Peter never responded to this but other editors started working in that direction immediately. Then, without further discussion or comment, Peter came back four days later to announce an intention to take his 'word razor' to all unreferenced assertions on the main astrology page, its sub-pages, and the portal page itself, to ensure his perceived disagreement was not circumvented in pages he viewed as content forks (I'm still not sure what he means by that). My response to that can be seen - a perfectly reasonable request for him to do what he felt was most productive, but consider that citation-tagging was the way to go. I also placed comments on his talk-page, which you can read if you are interested. That he erupted into a frenzy of AfD requests last night says something, I think, about his unwillingness to discuss and engage in other views. Most of his posts appear as new section declarations that don't appear to have considered the responses other editors give him.
- I've summarised this in the ANI request Dougweller started. The deletion requests were a step too far IMO, and I'm concerned that Peter would spring to such drastic measures in reaction to what he perceives to be me not allowing him to do what he wants to do. I'll be away for a few days so I'm tying up my WP activity now. That underlines my concern that he intends to take such drastic action with only one week's notice of intent. Thanks for looking into this. It would be good if something could be proposed to stop huge problems before they occur. 10:35, 22 July 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zachariel (talk • contribs
)
- One last request. I have just noticed that a related complaint, which is quite serious but has been sidetracked (deliberatly IMO) by Peter's suggestions that I have prevented him from doing what he wants, has been collapsed as "going nowehere" by an unsympathetic editor.
- "Its ben here several days and no admin has even sniffed at a block or ban - clearly you're not going to get admin action. So this should got to WP:DR or WP:RFCU if you want to take it further. I've boldly collapsed this, though I won't be surprised if someone uncollapses it"
- If you can find the time could you at least take a look at that related problem, and consider uncollapsing it, because the issues are serious and have gone beyond the point where Dispute resolution are appropriate. I will be away and have nothing more to add, but the problems identified still remain. Zac Δ talk 10:58, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
What to do?
- I've started a threat at ANI. Those AfDs are purely pointy and if no one objects I'll close them. talk) 06:11, 22 July 2011 (UTC)]
- Replied there. m.o.p 08:20, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
Talk Page on Militant Atheism - Introduction Section
- The update is appreciated, thanks very much. I've been dealing with life for the past two weeks, but I'll be back to close that discussion tonight or tomorrow. Thanks again, m.o.p 22:03, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
- Just bringing this up again, given the current state of this section. I believe the discussion will be archived automatically if not closed. I'm sorry if I sound pushy with you having a lot on your plate of late. If you would prefer, I could alert User:Fastily instead. Turnsalso (talk) 16:55, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
ITN
- I knew that tab I closed had unfinished business on it... thanks. 2008 University of Central Arkansas shootings is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.
The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2008 University of Central Arkansas shootings(2nd nomination) until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on good quality evidence, and our policies and guidelines.
Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article.
talk 14:00, 1 September 2011 (UTC)]
Hey
- Done! Both your userpage and the transcluded page are protected. Cheers, « ₣M₣ » 04:09, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Restored. m.o.p 05:21, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
]
User talk:Joshua the Independent
- My mistake - my block script auto-filled the edit summary. The block was issued due to the user's newfound will to disrupt Wikipedia intentionally. Their previous contributions are welcome, but this behaviour necessitates administrative action. m.o.p 21:52, 13 September 2011 (UTC)
Say hi to your imaginary girlfriend for me
- Well, I do love getting hate mail. Thanks for the laugh! Cheers, m.o.p 05:17, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
...further to the above lovely note, I weighed in on Calabe's talk page - there appears to be more confusion here than at first glance. bou·le·var·dier (talk) 05:19, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
Sorry to drop by again, but Silentsizzlingsausage (talk · contribs) would appear to be a duck. bou·le·var·dier (talk) 05:31, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
- No, it's not an issue! Thanks for the note, blocked. Cheers, WP:SPI. Thanks again, m.o.p 06:13, 14 September 2011 (UTC)]
I have to admit ...
- See the above section. The link is apparently a very subtle spam link that Calabe is removing, and socks are springing up to revert him. Swarm u / t 10:20, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
Moderation
- Alright, I'll make my way back. Thanks for letting me know! m.o.p 05:18, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
User:12.139.96.228
- To be honest, this case is perplexing. Half of this user's edits are constructive (mostly sourced), the other half aren't sourced - and the user won't reply to anybody. I'm also too busy to go through every edit and confirm whether or not it's good. I forgot about this for a while - I'll think about it tonight and figure something out for tomorrow. Thanks for reminding me! m.o.p 05:18, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
Whoops
- Whoops! Must not have been looking when I ran my block script. Thanks for letting me know, I've reblocked them for a far shorter (technically, an infinitely shorter) time. Cheers, m.o.p 22:58, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
Ashleyleggat404
- You're fully right in that the blanking policy covers indefinite blocks. I've removed the user's talk page rights as a result. Thanks again! m.o.p 00:28, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkback
Moderation
- If you look into this please consider whether Anupam's actions on the talk page and the entry itself are violations of WP:OWN. He's been driving off those he disagrees with by bludgening them to death with argument and heavily policing the entry claiming that there is a consensus written in stone despite many dissenting voices. Others have taken to simply calling him "the article's owner." I have had enough of this behavior personally and left him a message about it on his talk page. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:52, 20 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Dear User:Master of Puppets, the above user has misrepresented the occurrences at the article. I started another Introduction discussion at the article's talk page but User:Griswaldo has chosen to edit war over a second NPOV tag, despite the fact that one already exists in the article. He has done so despite the fact that the Introduction is being discussed in a peaceful manner at the talk page, in violation of your injunction: "We've only got consensus on this proposed versions (and loose consensus at that) - please do not attempt to subvert said consensus by making undiscussed changes." I have posted a message on his talk page about this behaviour. Nevertheless, I also do not wish to argue with the user personally and would prefer if you could go back to moderating the discussion between the two parties at the talk page. Thanks for taking the time to read this message. With regards, AnupamTalk 20:58, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- His "injunction?" Adding a neutrality tag to a specific sentence which an editor disputes the neutrality of is hardly "subverting the consensus by making undiscussed changes." Please stop wikilawyering to get your way. There is a growing consensus against your position regarding this article in general as well, despite your aggressive policing of the entry and the talk page. See ]
- I just thought that I would mention that User:Griswaldo, after seeing this message, just now decided to comment in the discussion rather than edit war against consensus further. Thanks for taking the time to read this message. With regards, AnupamTalk 21:51, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- "Edit war against consensus further?" My comment there has nothing to do with your message here. I've made three total edits to this entry ever. One was a copy edit in June, another was reverting an IP vandal, and the third was the revert of your Ownership edit. Please do not insinuate that I'm a edit warrior on this page. It is disingenuous.Griswaldo (talk) 22:08, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Thank you all for approaching me with your concerns.
- Obviously, I do not support Anupam - this is because I'm remaining a neutral third party, and, therefore, can't take sides. However, Griswaldo: please keep in mind that I did ask for all discussion to take place on the talk page. Why not just add your complaints to the talk page? It would have been much easier to discuss.
- I do agree that adding a NPOV tag, while slightly redundant, isn't horrible, but your intent seems to have been to stir discussion on that particular section, discussion that would be much more appropriate on the talk page.
- As for your and Snalwibma's concerns of Anupam trying to 'own' the article, I'm curious as to what you two mean; what 'delusions'?
- Also, Griswaldo, I don't think Anupam meant to insinuate you are an edit warrior (though this is just my take) - rather, they wanted to add the note that you've weighed in on discussion. m.o.p 22:10, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- your intent seems to have been to stir discussion on that particular section - No that's incorrect. I didn't add this tag, I simply reverted Anupam's attempt to own the page when he removed it. I agreed with JimWae's addition of the tag and found Anupam's removal to be unwarranted and a display of ownership.Griswaldo (talk) 22:16, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Note that, for all intents and purposes, reverting somebody is adding whatever is included in your edit, regardless of who put it there first. You revert a removal, you're agreeing with the edition you're reverting to - simple.
- And, if you agreed with JimWae, then we go back to what I was saying earlier - say so on the talk page. Two of you agree? Great! That's closer to consensus. But it means nothing if you express your support by reverting removals.
- Again, as I've asked multiple times, please stop saying that Anupam is owning anything without giving me evidence of it first. m.o.p 22:22, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Dear User:Master of Puppets, thank you for your reply to all of us. The reason User:Snalwibma stated that I was attempting to "own" the article was because I reverted an undiscussed removal from the article, which not only myself, but two other users objected to. In fact, two anonymous IP Addresses also reverted User:Snalwibma. I was open to compromise on the issue and stated that I would accept User:Turnsalso's compromise on the issue. I kindly request you to look at that discussion yourself and get an honest reading of it. Also, the only reason I removed the second NPOV tag was because there was already one present, which I did not remove. I only reverted the addition of a second NPOV tag once and even explained myself on the talk page. When I went to the talk page, I found rude accusations and an anti-collaborative spirit, despite the fact that I have been nothing but polite. I hope this helps. With regards, AnupamTalk 22:25, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry - I know I should not rise to the bait, but I have to object to the comment "The reason User:Snalwibma stated that I was attempting to 'own' the article was because I reverted an undiscussed removal ..." How dare Anupam presume to know what is in my mind! The reason I describe Anupam's attitude to the article as one of ownership is because that is how s/he behaves - "policing" every edit, pronouncing on whether s/he "accepts" or "rejects" it, peremptorily reverting anything s/he does not like, without discussion, presuming to know others' motives, and judging them as fit/unfit to contribute to the article. This has been going on for weeks, if not months. It is impossible to discuss the content of the article, let alone improve the text, because everything is filtered through the approval/disapproval of the article's self-appointed guardian, Anupam. tendentious or disruptive when they bring up certain issues, even when they are clearly in the majority. That is not collaborative. I stopped editing the article heavily because of those issues. I don't have any delusions that my opinion is worth more than anyone else's here, but I would think that the large number of established, experienced editors who are all saying there's a problem, would indicate something. — Jess· Δ♥ 19:45, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
Please reconsider your full protection of Militant atheist
- In case you didn't notice, I asked that people think twice about pointing fingers at each other. If you'd like to start a sockpuppetry investigation, let me know, and we can take that avenue - however, don't accuse other editors of ownership without substance. If you think Anupam is trying to own things, give me something. Diffs, edits, anything. I'll check it out for you, but right now, baseless accusations are not what I'm looking for.
- Also, notice that I protected the article with your edit being the last one. How is that validating the very person you've been reverting?
- The protection will stay until consensus is reached. m.o.p 22:19, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Because protection is what he wants quite clearly. He's stalling conversation and shouting down people on the talk page, where, if you have a look, you'll see he's clearly in the minority. Because of your "injunction" as he calls it, he also claims that no matter how many people agree with a certain change it is illegitimate. I'll be happy to gather some diffs, but my first message to you above was to please look into the situation carefully before acting on it. Did you do that and come to the conclusion that I'm wrong or did you not head that request? Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:29, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Yes, I did heed your request. I don't see any ownership behaviour from Anupam, though, being involved in multiple disputes, I didn't have the time to read every last word on the page, so you're free to provide evidence. However, from what I can see, Anupam's last proposal was supported by the majority - not to count (and I don't mean to imply that I decide where consensus lies by looking at pure numbers), but from looking at pure supports versus opposes, eight people (nine including Anupam) support while four oppose. How does that make Anupam's views a minority? m.o.p 22:37, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- It depends on what view you are talking about. The current RFC on the introduction is something that most people don't even want to engage because most people think this very entry should be split up and integrated into other entries. I reluctantly engaged the RfC just now myself. The last time the more serious question about the entry was asked, several of the new commentators were not around, and there was "no consensus" found because the opposing side was chalk full of SPAs and editors with a view that is outright hostile to atheism (which is a legitimate view to hold, but it is a minority view). Let me find you some diffs.Griswaldo (talk) 22:43, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- User:Griswaldo, that is exactly the issue: you do not want to collaborate with other users on the talk page, which is why you were reluctant to participate in the current RfC. Moreover, there were several SPA's on the side of the opposition as well, including WP:NPOV. In addition, the split was again recently discussed and the specific case to do so was refuted by several editors. As such, there was no consensus for it. I hope this helps. With regards, AnupamTalk 22:52, 20 September 2011 (UTC)]
- No. You are trying to write an article that violates WP:SYNTH because it conflates New Atheism with oppressive communist regimes and their histories of violence. That's hardly NPOV. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:59, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
Hi m.o.p., as someone who occasionally looks at that page (and then washes my hands), I just want to compliment you as having done the right thing in full protecting. By way of unsolicited advice to the involved editors, the best thing they could do is to allow The Wrong Version to sit there a good long time, and devote their energy to other things. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:54, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
]
Yes, please reconsider your full protection of
WP:RS—deserve protection against misinformed reverts. Thanks Geremia (talk) 16:12, 22 September 2011 (UTC)]
Diffs of
- I'm not really sure where the ownership is here; nowhere in our policies is it stated that a user can't promote their RFC on the subject talk page. If it's ongoing and they'd like to move it to the forefront, what's wrong with that? More so, some of your summaries seem inaccurate - in that last diff, you state that Anupam is removing images, yet I only see Anupam adding an image (the peace dove that's at the top of the page). Also, you use repeating examples. m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Well clearly the last diff was wrong. Thanks for the vote of confidence. There are no repeat examples nor inaccurate summaries, just a mistaken copy paste of the second to last diff to the last position as well. I have fixed it. Cheers.
- Using "consensus claims from one RfC to reject changes made to article content
- Same as above. Using the "consensus" bludgeon to get his way. Please note that clearly we ought to edit by consensus, but this consensus is highly disputed, and IMO not there in the first place. The real problem is the way in which Anupam decides to use it like a trump card to remove changes he doesn't like. Ask yourself if all changes post "consensus" have been removed or just the ones Anupam decided he wanted removed.
Master of Puppets do you need more diffs or is this enough?Griswaldo (talk) 23:31, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Well I need more diffs because your "evidence" so far looks like a desperate attempt to incriminate an editor who has been very successful in persuading his colleagues to adopt his proposals. Anupam has presented his proposals, argued the merits and persuaded many editors. Anything you want to tell us about why you're having difficulty doing likewise? – Lionel (talk) 06:02, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- I don't see this is as conclusive evidence, either. And, it should be said - if people are editing against established consensus, then people are free to re-evaluate consensus, but edit-warring against it doesn't make much sense. m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- If not ownership then what is this - [28], [29], [30]? He removes two RfCs started by another editor, and revolving around the question that many of us actually find to be the fundamental question to answer regarding the entry. Then he edit wars to keep these RfCs off the page, claiming again to have some sort of authority stemming from your prior actions. If you aren't willing to do something here I'm going to another administrator and I'm going to ask for your initial "consensus," your strong arm administrating, and your lack of action here to be reviewed as well. Thanks.Griswaldo (talk) 17:08, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Anupam has already apologized for reverting those RfC additions, and we've moved past it. He also didn't claim to have administrative authority, but was waiting for my approval. We've cleared this up, it's not an issue. So no, I'm not going to take any action (as I've said here and on ANI). Now, if you'd like to threaten me and tell me that, since I'm not cooperating with your wills, you'll go to another administrator, that's fine - as I've said, you can seek outside opinions - but remember to keep a cool head, because borderline threats are not appreciated. m.o.p 21:49, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- It was not a threat, "borderline" or otherwise. You are conveniently ignoring a growing number of voices who are all saying the same thing - there is an ownership problem here. The deletion issue has not been "cleared up" as far as I'm concerned. Whenever it is mentioned Anupam insists that he did not "unilaterally" delete the RfCs from the page, which is a blatant distortion, since that is exactly what he did. He continues to act as a policeman at the page, and yes he does continue to cite your authority. Did you bother to read the many diffs I posted above in the second two sections? I will quote three random examples from those I provided for you if you want.
- When he first deleted the two RfCs he wrote: "rv - see discussion with reviewing administrator; approval needed to start another RfC while one is already occurring."
- When he deleted a fact tag that JimWae put into the lede: "rv excessive tagging per talk; tag is already extant in header; do not subvert previous consensus but gain consensus for potential additions per administrative notice"
- When he rejected another recent change to the entry: "accepted edits by User:Jkhwiki; rv removal of longstanding referenced content - see discussion on talk page and gain consensus for action per administrative injunction"
- In talk page comments and in edit summaries he consistently does the same thing. He refers to your authority, either directly or indirectly through your "notice" or your "injunction" as he likes to call it. I never said the claimed to have administrative authority, I said that he's using your authority, by way of your comments, such as the closure of the AfD to bully people. Do you deny that he citing your comments, because if you do then I must have fabricated those quotes. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:32, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
If you say "If you don't do A, then I'm going to go and do B", that's a threat. Anyway, that's not the issue - we've already covered all the issues with the RfC reverting, and Anupam won't do it again. Why keep raising hell over it?
We've already covered everything you bring up. And no, I'm not denying anything. I'm just saying this, and it's very simple: I don't think there has been any blatant ownership here. That's my judgment. If you disagree, again, feel free to raise this with another administrator or on ANI. m.o.p 23:12, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Regarding the new RFC, I still think there has not passed yet too much time since the last discussion about splitting the article. As far as I knew, repeating these sorts of debates (like splitting, deleting, renaming) before a larger amount of time has passed (like 6 months) is usually discouraged. And as others have also argued earlier, even if having multiple RFCs is possible, it's not very useful, and the new RFC seems to discourage further discussion about improving the lead introduction. So preventing multiple RFCs (and also a RFC about an issue debated not too long ago) does not look to me like evidence of bad faith intentions. Cody7777777 (talk) 21:37, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Cody, would you mind linking me to the previous RfC on splitting? m.o.p 21:49, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- The previous attempt to split the article can be found here. Cody7777777 (talk) 21:55, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Response
Yes, it does. Thanks, m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Dear User:Master of Puppets, I just noticed that User:Binksternet started another RfC while a current one is occurring. Is this appropriate? I reverted the addition motioning for one until your response is confirmed. If it is acceptable, then I apologize and will revert my edit. I look forward to your response. With regards, AnupamTalk 15:14, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'll form my reply on ANI. m.o.p 17:12, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- When you do please take into account my comment just above, regarding Anupam's edit warring to remove talk page comments (namely these RfCs) posted by others on the talk page. If you still don't think this is WP:OWN then clearly other administrators are needed here.Griswaldo (talk) 17:15, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Dear User:Griswaldo, how is going to a neutral mediator to address the issue owning the article? I acknowledge that the article is in dispute and as a result, I am asking an administrator for advice in this matter, NOT handling things on my own, as you have done by edit warring. Your WP:OWN allegations have not only been dismissed by this administrator, but by several other users, including, User:Lionelt, User:Cody7777777 and User:NYyankees51. Thanks, AnupamTalk 17:27, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- In reply to Griswaldo: reverting the RfCs was a mistake, but we've cleared that up now. As Anupam has stated at ANI, the intent was not to discourage discussion. If you think my judgment is compromised, you're welcome to seek another administrator's input. m.o.p 21:04, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- And as further evidence of WP:OWN, see this. Anupam adds a comment to everything that anyone else says, as if he/she is the owner of the article and everyone else is a subordinate contributor. This particular instance is pretty benign (although it clutters up the talk page with an unnecessary comment that merely says "I agree"), but I do think that Anupam at least needs to learn how to avoid giving the appearance of thinking he/she owns the article, and to desist from chipping in and saying the same thing over and over again, which almost makes meaningful discussion impossible! SNALWIBMA ( talk - contribs ) 17:31, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- While the input is appreciated, as I've said before, making allegations of ownership without hard evidence isn't going to get us anywhere. Anupam is not stopping others from discussing changes or forming consensus, and that's all that matters - refactoring the talk page or commenting on an issue is not against policy, and I'm not going to tell someone to stop editing because it "looks" like they're doing something wrong. As said above, you're welcome to request another administrator's insight if you wish. m.o.p 21:04, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
COIHi
you've helped me out before, with a conflict of interest problem, so having much more experience than me on wikipedia, I thought I would be bold enough to ask again for help.
Similar problem to last, User_talk:Hobbycraft is editing the HOBBYCRAFT article and making changes that aren't citably right. I think the user name suggest and history suggests a conflict of interest case.
Can you please, speak to them addressing this issue.
Thank you very much for your help.
Markcoulter50 (talk) 22:27, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
- I've blocked that user for username violations. Thanks a lot for letting me know! Keep up the great work, m.o.p 23:00, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkbackcausa sui (talk) 18:47, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Hello. You have a new message at causa sui's talk page. causa sui (talk) 20:54, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Problematic editing on militant atheism
- I hope it's not considered defamatory to repeat the final line: "I merely present the diffs above, and let others draw their own conclusions. Is this a duck? Does it quack? You decide.". Unfortunately, the concerned community no longer has that opportunity. What did you decide on their behalf? Does this duck quack, or not? bobrayner (talk) 15:42, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- It's not your wording, it's the very idea of it. Going to what's allegorically a public place and shouting, "Hey, everybody, this man is a criminal!" is one step below blatantly forming a lynch mob. As I've said, I have no problem with your wording or evidence, just your location of choice. Wikipedia is not, unfortunately, a democracy - letting others draw their conclusions and voice their opinions is not how a sockpuppet investigation works.
- So yes, please don't go restoring any of that section. We're not discussing editors, we're discussing the content they produce. Anything else has a sub-board to deal with it (like WP:SPI).
- Hopefully that clears things up! I'll be happy to answer any more questions should you have them. Cheers, m.o.p 15:48, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Hello User:Bobrayner, I noticed the section you created on the militant atheism talk page. If you do feel the way you do about User:Turnsalso and the anonymous IP Addresses, you can take this up with WP:SPI. Thanks, AnupamTalk 15:52, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
Are you kidding my MoP? Above your write: Going to what's allegorically a public place and shouting, "Hey, everybody, this man is a criminal!" is one step below blatantly forming a lynch mob. AND We're not discussing editors, we're discussing the content they produce. Yet you call this edit by Lionelt "good faith," at WQA? MoP, I would not ask you to agree with me or to like me, but can I please ask you not to insult me with these double standards.Griswaldo (talk) 16:18, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
]
- Griswaldo, I mean no offense when I say this, but I'd appreciate it if you stayed out of discussions which didn't involve you. Also, please don't put words in my mouth. Thanks, m.o.p 16:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I have not put words in your mouth. You said that you would assume good faith about Lionel. If you "assume good faith" it means you assume his edits were in "good faith." If you did not intend that meaning I suggest you reconsider what you wrote. Also, if you want me to "stay out of discussion which don't involve me" then I suggest your first order of business should be to do the same thing yourself. You decided to post at WQA, when there was no mention of you or anything you've done in that thread. Once again, I expect people not to practice double standards. So as long as you cannot show me that you will treat me as you ask to be treated yourself, I will not oblige you. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:21, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Please stop bickering. I'm not quite sure what you're trying to accomplish here. I've already explained what I meant when I said assuming good faith, but I'll explain again: I assumed that Lionelt was not hounding or deliberately haranguing you. I did not say, at any point, that his edit content was good faith, and I've told him not to edit like that again. So please stop accusing me of saying things I haven't said.
- Also, I posted in WQA because, as a mediator in this case and as an administrator, it's my duty to weigh in on administrative noticeboards, especially when the case is an ongoing discussion I've been participating in for three months. It is not your duty to weigh in on discussions on my talk page that don't concern you. I hope the distinction is clear here. m.o.p 20:33, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I think you are confused about something. Content is never good faith. "Editing in good faith" and "good faith edits" refers to the intent of the editor always. It has nothing to do with content. My assumption that you also felt the edits were appropriate comes from the fact that you did not say they weren't appropriate and clearly feel that his intentions were good. If you'd like to set the record straight on that issue you still can. I've asked you twice now to discuss the actual edits that are the focal point of the thread. Also, I moved the thread to ANI, per the suggestion of the editor who marked it "resolved."Griswaldo (talk) 20:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- See Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#User:Lionelt_--_following_my_past_edits_to_drum_up_support_against_me. FYI, I copy pasted the entire discussion because both you and Collect were critical of my initial post and I thought it was the right thing to do to preserve that criticism in the record of the conversation. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:43, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- In reply to your first paragraph: I'm going to give up now, as it seems you're misunderstanding most of what I type, but you're the one who stated that the content was not good faith (as you said, not appropriate), and I agreed - I referred to his intent in replying to you, and said that I assumed good faith in his motives, not his replies. I can't really say that in a clearer way, so my apologies if it's hard to understand. Also, as I've already said, I've left a message for Lionelt about his edits, so clearly I do not feel they're appropriate. m.o.p 20:57, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I, too, find these double standards vexing.
- Which diff is defamatory?
- I had hitherto thought that people on the article talkpage might like to be aware of potential problems with votestacking on the article talkpage (and 3rr evasion, of course). Would it be permitted to add a link to that list of diffs when it's in a different place, or would you consider that defamatory too? bobrayner (talk) 16:23, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- As I said, the information is not defamatory, but the way it's presented is - we have specific processes available to pursue should one feel there are sockpuppets about. However, calling someone out with the intent of informing the community is overstepping your authority and damaging to the accused's character. Also, there's no way a community discussion about whether or not one editor is a sockpuppet can end in anything other than a sockpuppet investigation anyway.
- So, in closing, please don't bring issues like this to the talk page. If you're concerned about votestacking, take it to the appropriate venue - if your concerns are validated, we'll take measures against said puppets. Cheers, m.o.p 16:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I am very disappointed that it's no longer permissible to raise problems with article-editing on the article talkpage. Previous concerns about sockpuppetry were simply ignored; the difference this time is that it's backed by lots of diffs.
- I'm fairly confident that the people concerned have sufficient technical nous to make checkuser draw a blank. And, let's be entirely honest, within minutes of me creating an SPI, an admin of the right persuasion will be getting an email suggesting that an SPI needs their attention. And SPI does not see offsite coordination by a facebook group &c. Finally, any null result at SPI will be used at the article in much the same way as previous administrative decisions have been. So, I do not believe that an SPI will improve either the article, or the encyclopædia as a whole. bobrayner (talk) 17:08, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- If you don't think the pre-existing methods set in place for situations like this are sufficient, you can always raise that concern at the village pump or suggest a policy revision - however, SPI is the venue for these requests, and the only venue. The talk page can not substitute. m.o.p 17:10, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
76.228.226.122Thank you for blocking the anonymous user, who is being counterproductive and rude. (although I think the block should have been one week, but I guess ok at least)
Can you also please try to hide the edit summaries of these edits if possible?
This and
this
Thanks and regards, talk 05:04, 26 September 2011 (UTC)]
- I'll extend the block if this behaviour continues after the block period is over.
- As for the edit summaries, those don't warrant hiding - I apologize for their content, but they don't meet the criteria of what I should remove. It's best just to ignore them for now. Cheers, m.o.p 05:13, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
- Okay, good to know, if I did nothing wrong, no permanent block will be enforced. The IP does not volunteer on WP as an admin and so the disproportionately out of line comments and threats of his should be ignored. --talk 05:19, 26 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Sounds good. We only hide extremely offensive revisions; milder ones stay in the edit history. Thanks again for bringing this to our attention! Cheers, m.o.p 05:31, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
Email
Jasper Deng (talk) 05:29, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
- Reading. talk) 06:00, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Bad Girls Club
- I've blocked Junebea for 2 days for disregarding warnings. m.o.p 20:30, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks for helping :) Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 21:06, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkback
- And again.Griswaldo (talk) 04:24, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
- And again ... but maybe the last. You can settle this question once and for all. See the talk page.Griswaldo (talk) 06:09, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'm sure I'm not alone in wanting to hear your replies to the last responses posed to you at that page. IMO, I don't know why you went down the road you did, but as far as I can tell you're blatantly misrepesenting facts about your own actions when people are brining concerns to you. You might think that since you closed the RfC the matter is settled, but it is not. You're actions have not made my life any more pleasant in the last few days vis-a-vis trying to deal with Anupam's disruption and I think you owe us all answers. So please revisit this thread and deal with the open questions. Thanks.Griswaldo (talk) 02:19, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
- I invite you to stop asking the same question again and again. This would be appreciated. Thanks, m.o.p 02:33, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Block question
- No, I just block obviously bad-faith accounts on sight. Advertising/spam accounts fall under that category. m.o.p 00:37, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Thanks
- Thank you. I've unlocked the article for whatever may come. If I'm needed again, feel free to let me know. Thanks for the kind words again, m.o.p 05:12, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
reminder
- We're still waiting to see if the user understands COI policy (per Ed's question). I'll prod the user and see if they'll answer. talk) 19:20, 30 September 2011 (UTC)]
Nextel logo deleted
- Mmm, good point. What's the link to the logo in question? m.o.p 01:33, 2 October 2011 (UTC)
Support of Sage City SymphonyYou deleted this page before I had a chance to go back in and add the stuff that you wanted to see, including the links within Wikipedia to important composers such as Lou Callabro (who started this orchestra and cites it in his Wikipedia page) and Susan Hurley whose work we premiered (SC is also mentioned in her Wikipedia entry). (Let alone links about the works we have performed.) And we have a web site at www.sagecitysymphony.org, have existed for over 35 yrs and are a significant cultural resource in the Bennington area such that we receive grants from local, statewide and national foundations.
I broke my wrist last weekend and am doing one-handed pecking so it'll take me a few days to get that loaded in. We are going out for a bit now, but I would appreciate your undeleting the page so that I don't have to re-invent the starting part when I go back in tomorrow to add links. Or delete it entirely so that I can start fresh - at this point either would work as long as I can start some serious work on it tomorrow. I am the webmaster by the way, so I do have access to content and more links.
Thank you, Celia Murray — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.228.127.119 (talk) 14:22, 1 October 2011 (UTC)
- It looks like fixed everything up. Best of luck, m.o.p 01:35, 2 October 2011 (UTC)]
Reply on Deterence's talk page
MA
After the beating you took you deserve a cold one--on me! Thanks for being fair and balanced – Lionel (talk) 03:55, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
- Hey, thanks! Glad to help out. :) m.o.p 03:56, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
Deletion of Mau5trap Recordings
--neocharles (talk) 07:33, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Existence does not equal notability - the subject has to be notable to get a Wikipedia page. m.o.p 12:05, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
Questoin re: AIV
- Addendum, actually, I read it very clearly in WP:VANDNOT: "Uploading or using material on Wikipedia in violation of Wikipedia's copyright policies is prohibited, but is not vandalism unless the user does so maliciously or fails to heed warnings." So if a person fails to heed warnings it is vandalism. My mistake here was that I only warned once. --Muhandes (talk) 12:29, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Eh, technically it is vandalism, but the user seems to be trying to improve the Wikipedia - that desire to help is misplaced in this case, as they seem to think that using copyrighted content is actually better. Weird. For most cases, yes, you should report copyvio to AIV - as long as they've been warned sufficiently. m.o.p 12:42, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- OK, he now did it again and the time stamp is after your last warning. Is it vandalism now? --Muhandes (talk) 12:32, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Yeah, if they're outright ignoring warnings. I've blocked for three days. m.o.p 12:40, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
Classmusic
- Oh, I know. But if somebody's lied to my face about using another account - and to other editors working on the article - I'm not about to let them go without a repercussion or two. I'd like Almost-instinct and Voceditnore to look over the article and fix up anything shifty. Also, I'd like Classmusic to respond to my warning, instead of blanking it and ignoring like they have to the above-named editors.
- So, in short, I know that COI doesn't bar editing, but it's enough of a concern that, given the user's recent behaviour, I'll stop them from doing anything until we've figured things out. This isn't too rouge-y, is it? I didn't hear that. Perhaps he is unaware of the sockpuppet investigation findings. Anyhow it seems that DeltaQuad has also blocked the Classmusic account. I left a note on his page about using the unblock template, but re-iterated that he needs to read the COI and Autobiography guidelines and stick to them scrupulously, if he gets unblocked. In the Opera and Classical Music WikiProjects, we get a lot of articles for performers, ensembles, etc. created by their agents and PR people, and often themselves. In my experience, the best I can hope for after one of these tussles is that they'll edit their article according to the guidelines in future. I have yet to find a single one who has ever contributed anything else to Wikipedia. Their only interest in the project is as a PR tool. Having said that, at least it results (after much red-pencilling from other editors) in one new article on a notable subject that we didn't have before and in a small way redresses the pop culture systemic bias here. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 13:40, 5 October 2011 (UTC)]
Danish election
- Never mind, it's been pulled by another admin. All the best, Jenks24 (talk) 11:03, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry about that! I was busy all day and didn't get your message until now. Thanks for letting me know, though! Cheers, m.o.p 19:51, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
3RRHey there! :)
Well WP:CRYSTAL has wined down, however, there's currently a
The Bad Girls Club (season 7). I have notified the two users [32], [33]. The evidence can be found here. They are having an edit-conflict on how the "Duration of cast" should be presented. Since there's no rules regarding anything like that, and it was made up about a year ago, I couldn't warned them to stop their e/c with anything except the 3RR rule. Maybe they need an admin to tell them to stop, so that's why I came to you :) Thanks, Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 01:17, 6 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Temporary page protection requested. Calabe1992 (talk) 01:29, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
Wikipedia Ambassador Program is looking for new Online AmbassadorsHi! Since you've been identified as an Awesome Wikipedian, I wanted to let you know about the Online Ambassador. We're looking for friendly Wikipedians who are good at reviewing articles and giving feedback to serve as mentors for students who are assigned to write for Wikipedia in their classes.
If you're interested, I encourage you to take a look at the Online Ambassador guidelines; the "mentorship process" describes roughly what will be expected of mentors during the current term, which started in January and goes through early May. If that's something you want to do, please apply!
You can find instructions for applying at WP:ONLINE.
I hope to hear from you soon.--Sage Ross - Online Facilitator, Wikimedia Foundation (talk) 19:27, 8 February 2011 (UTC)
talk page.
- See a log of files removed today here.
- Shut off the bot here.
- Report errors here.
Thank you, -- DASHBot (talk) 05:10, 9 February 2011 (UTC)
Mail
00:05, 10 February 2011 (UTC)
Wait
- How was this a copy-paste move? It was a recreation of a deleted article. Sasata (talk) 23:46, 10 February 2011 (UTC)
- Which was, to my knowledge, notabilified. Is that a word? m.o.p 01:05, 11 February 2011 (UTC)
:D![](//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/29/Choco_chip_cookie_bitten.jpg/100px-Choco_chip_cookie_bitten.jpg)
CharlieEchoTango has eaten your {{cookie}}! The cookie made them happy and they'd like to give you a great big hug for donating it. Spread the WikiLove by giving out more {{cookie}}s, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend. Thanks again!
Spread the goodness of cookies by adding {{subst:cookie}} to someone's talk page with a friendly message, or eat a cookie with {{subst:munch}}!
[[CharlieEchoTango]] 01:38, 11 February 2011 (UTC)
Blanking of material at The Deputy
- MOP, how would you feel about one month of full protection for this article? I see that Ekwos has stopped by to remove the section again. The dispute about the KGB connection has been running for almost a year now. Full protection could motivate people to discuss the issue, and perhaps create an RfC. Thanks EdJohnston (talk) 20:32, 11 February 2011 (UTC)
- One month of pending changes is better, I think. I don't like limiting legitimate editors, but this will disallow further warring from disrupting the 'pedia. m.o.p 07:10, 12 February 2011 (UTC)
Deletion of Gabriel Weinberg
- It wasn't my decision to delete the article. We had clear community consensus. Please stop taking thins personally. m.o.p 07:10, 12 February 2011 (UTC)
Edit summariesActually user:Zjarriretues is removing a reliable source [[1]] that mentions his ethnicity and places another that's more suitable to his national standarts. Although the source Zjarri. prefers is also 'rs' he did not disagree in the article's talkpage with my version [[2]].
Unfortunately when a couple of months passed you prefered to make his revert per
wp:ninja, without explaining the reason of this (very) delayed revert.Alexikoua (talk) 17:03, 14 February 2011 (UTC)]
I reverted myself, however, an explanation is needed in the talkpage by the user since he agreed in the past with the version I've presented on Aug..Alexikoua (talk) 17:14, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
Your friend the the IP
sent you an email
- One of your userboxes says you're only 17! I would have sworn you were older than that! ; ) --Kenatipo speak! 23:40, 16 February 2011 (UTC)
Godzilla
- I feel that it doesn't. If you check our crystal ball policy, you'll notice that it says, "It is appropriate to report discussion and arguments about the prospects for success of future proposals and projects or whether some development will occur, if discussion is properly referenced." That policy is meant to stop unsourced conjecture and speculation by editors, so I think we're fine in this case. The Hobbit film project with all its troubles). Here, with Godzilla, the reports are extremely normal. The studio announces its plans for a film, and a director is attached for it (which is not a guarantee). That's what it boils down to, and it's not enough to be more than a news source. Erik (talk | contribs) 16:11, 17 February 2011 (UTC)
- I appreciate that you've explained your position to me (though I did read your points in the AFD thread) but I can't delve into stuff like this. If you're not happy with my close, you're fully welcome to ask another administrator or even open another AFD. m.o.p 16:15, 17 February 2011 (UTC)
- I won't do anything for now. I would just prefer to keep such articles a rarity. Following films for some time, a lot of people tend to create an article about a film the moment it is announced (or the moment something new happens, like a new director). I do like to report discussion (did so at Concrete Island) but it's more a matter of where for me, to ensure topics of enduring notability. I did want to ask, do you think a merge discussion in general would be more beneficial? I feel like an AFD like that foments a keep-or-delete mentality that overrides the in-between solution of reporting discussion under a broader article until we can be near certain a film will exist. Erik (talk | contribs) 16:21, 17 February 2011 (UTC)
- A merge discussion would be great; I could weigh in and such. Feel free to open one up if you'd like to. m.o.p 23:03, 17 February 2011 (UTC)
]
Please respond
userspace
Talkback 16:14, 19 February 2011 (UTC)
Protect my talk page
- Lately, this IP also misused the edit war template on my talk page.Jasper Deng (talk) 00:37, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
Block an IP
E-Mail
nice guyhiii master of puppets,
ok do u know the movie Twilght saga ?
rply me back i want 2 talk 2 u a lot because i like ur pesonalty.BY
talk) 11:58, 28 April 2011 (UTC)]
File source problem with File:MoPuppetarmy.pngThank you for uploading File:MoPuppetarmy.png. I noticed that the file's description page currently doesn't specify who created the content, so the copyright status is unclear. If you did not create this file yourself, you will need to specify the owner of the copyright. If you obtained it from a website, please add a link to the website from which it was taken, together with a brief restatement of that website's terms of use of its content. However, if the copyright holder is a party unaffiliated from the website's publisher, that copyright should also be acknowledged.
If you have uploaded other files, consider verifying that you have specified sources for those files as well. You can find a list of files you have created in your upload log. Unsourced and untagged images may be deleted one week after they have been tagged per Wikipedia's criteria for speedy deletion, F4. If the image is copyrighted and non-free, the image will be deleted 48 hours after 11:44, 11 May 2011 (UTC) per speedy deletion criterion F7. If the file is already gone, you can still make a request for undeletion and ask for a chance to fix the problem. You may wish to read the Wikipedia's image use policy. If you have any questions or are in need of assistance please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. Magog the Ogre (talk) 11:44, 11 May 2011 (UTC)
The Deputy
- Thanks for your reply. My concern was not that Jayjg indicated he would rewrite and did not do so, but that he had agreed to allow more of the disputed section in the article rather than a dismissive sentence or two, but when editors began to delete the entire section based on frivolous reasons, he supported it. It appears now that we have, or are in the process of reaching a resolution. The section is now in the article, reduced substantially to account of Jayjg's concers about undue weight. Mamalujo (talk) 18:40, 27 May 2011 (UTC)
Carla Rushing page deletion
Any further discussion of Sarah Palin will result in a warning, and then a temporary block. Thank you!Hmmm, that might be just a tad excessive. We don't want to suppress all discussion, because that's when the pressure has nowhere to go, and people will go and meatball:ExpandScope.
Since scope is already expanded to international media, forcing scope to expand further might be a bit of a Bad Idea (tm). I recommend Not Going There.
If we're really intent on keeping discussions off of WP, we can always create a wikinews article, and link to the "discuss this article" page.
However, at the moment, people seem to be keeping it down to a dull roar anyway.
--Kim Bruning (talk) 22:44, 6 June 2011 (UTC)
- I think you caught my side point, but I'd like to stress the part I'm trying to tell you to watch out for!
- Long term empirical experience shows that attempts to curtail discussion on wikipedia will not slow down the internet discussion elsewhere (or even on wikipedia). Instead, that's exactly what will feed it more and more steam. So Don't Do That.
- Experience shows that the following approaches work:
- Try to centralize all (spurious) discussion in one place
- keep it as focused on encyclopedic work as possible.
- Treat the new users like new users. They don't know our rules yet. Teach them!
- The foundation would like to see us be more welcoming towards new users. That's a good idea! Let's do that.
- --Kim Bruning (talk) 00:26, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
- And... it went to AN/I (see below) --Kim Bruning (talk) 01:33, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
Edit Notice on Paul RevereYou seem to be asserting some admin right to quench discussion on the talk page by blocking and/or warning with the editnotice that I don't think we have, by policy. IAR doesn't cover stomping on people, no matter how annoying a particular conversation is.
Kelly started a
WP:ANI discussion on this.
Followups probably best on ANI as I am sure others will want to comment. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 01:15, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
- On review - I'm going to blank the edit notice now. If an ANI consensus develops to support restoring it then I'll not object at all, but I think it's novel and enough of a stretch that the default should be "no" unless consensus develops otherwise. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 01:19, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
How does a user find a mentor?
Helen Lucy Burke
Talkback
I did what you asked but the IP reverted it again. PTJoshua (talk) 21:09, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
- You're removing everything I say. Please don't do this. It isn't helpful. --86.45.75.42 (talk) 21:19, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
- I'll talk to them. Sit tight for a second. m.o.p 21:10, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
RE: Deletion of 48gogreen page :ApalejaHello,
Thank you for quick response. I appreciate your reason. but if you do some research you'll find more then 4 or 5 substantial mentions in local or international media - in a newspaper, on a notable website, etc. - to put forward this article.
There is a link on official website of company. http://www.48gogreen.com/static/web
Looking forward for your response. thank you in advance to undelete article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Apaleja (talk • contribs) 08:03, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
Here are some articles from International Press (you can use Google translator-if you use chrome it'll provide option immediately):
http://www.regione.emilia-romagna.it/wcm/cinema/sezioni_primopiano/PrimoPiano/Gadoev.htm
http://domani.arcoiris.tv/girano-un-corto-in-48-ore-e-arrivano-dritti-a-cannes/
http://www.close-up.it/spip.php?article6724
http://www.flashvideo.it/news/9/2578/
http://www.radioemiliaromagna.it/cultura/cinema/videomaker_bolognesi_cannes_corto_ecologico.aspx
Also if YOU HAD READ careful our site you should have see the Press link (those are press links not blogs) with all these web press: http://www.48gogreen.com/static/web
Thank you — Preceding unsigned comment added by Apaleja (talk • contribs) 08:22, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
Final warning On Edit Warring of Efik language disputeIf My Reporting a false article is the reason you want to block me. Then Go ahead and BLOCK me.- I can be Block because I don't care to be part of a web/Encyclopedia of Lies! Although I have contributed anonymously to wikipedia since 2008, I only just signed on a few weeks ago to report an error that I thought was made. But you and your other BIASED administrators have refused to fix this error, instead you're all threatening to block me.
- : According to Wikipedia A false statement/article is removed immediatley it is realized. Yet as am reporting it you all are threatening me for causing disruption.
- You all are saying that I called I called Kwami Slow, Dumb etc. Yet Kwami used the words Ignorance first.
"As for Ukwa, your ignorance is not evidence of anything".
- What is the meaning of IGNORANCE? S/He also said;
"But we cannot have the same article under two names, nor an article on Ibibio-Efik that does not include Ibibio, nor an article on Efik that does not include Efik. A little common sense would be helpful."
- What is meaning of Common sense? Or because Kwami put it very nicely, and mine wasn't? Also I wasn't blanking the Efik page, since I just signed on it takes me a long while to write up an article. According to the statements above, Kwami said I could develop articles on Efik and Ibibio, that is what I was doing when you or your other BIASED administrators returned the articles back to the re-direct.
- : Since wikipedia says a false statement is fixed immediately it is reported, I explained out the mistakes, but Kwami kept insisting that me a native who speaks these languages was wrong and asked for sources. I provided the sources and Kwami Called A brilliant Historian who is a Million times more knowledgable than Kwami on the language;
"utterly ignorant AND not some random idiot who posted a web page".
- Yet you and your other Biased colleges are claiming that am the one attacking Kwami and causing a disruption.
- : Am done with Wikipedia, am going to be taking this issues to the Founder/head by email, once the Ibibio union are involved it might become a legal matter if Wikipedia still continues to portray this misleading information.
I will take this matter to the heads by Email first because they might not be aware of what you all supposed administrators are doing to their image. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ibibiogrl (talk • contribs) 21:41, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
Hi Mops,
Pls read my comments on the ANI page. I think Ibibiogrl means well, she just needs some guidance, and she's not willing to take it from me. — kwami (talk) 22:17, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
- Obviously we would like to have contributors from that part of the world, but Ibibiogrl's record here is so unpromising that I think we need good assurances that something will change in the future. (I would welcome any evidence that Ibibiogrl means well. It is hard to improve the encyclopedia when you have no interest in or respect for its policies. Read her statement above if you are uncertain about that). Mentorship has value only for someone who understands that something has gone wrong and would be willing to work with a mentor. EdJohnston (talk) 22:46, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
- I agree with Ed in this case - I have no grudge against Ibibiogrl, but the editor's attitude, despite multiple pleas for otherwise, remained combative and even insulting at points. If there's a serious expression of guilt and the editor decides they'd like to walk a different path, I'd be happy to help. However, as it is now, I believe the block should stand. m.o.p 22:52, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
- I agree that it would require some indication that she wants help. Just my 2¢ as the person she's most upset with. — kwami (talk) 23:05, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
- For the record, your input is highly appreciated, and very admirable; as the editor in conflict with her, I respect your neutrality and helpfulness. As for Ibibiogrl, we'll see where that goes. Cheers! m.o.p 00:59, 17 June 2011 (UTC)
Can you adopt me i want a new adopter.
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Mr. Pit (2nd nomination)
This isn't personalI belive the AFD on Campaign for "santorum" neologism was closed way to early and am contesting your close.
An editor has asked for a deletion review of Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2011 June 21. Because you closed the deletion discussion for this page, speedily deleted it, or otherwise were interested in the page, you might want to participate in the deletion review. KoshVorlon' Naluboutes Aeria Gloris 12:17, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
James Ball
Thank you for your concern. But I will not be blocked - _I am adding_ wikipedia to adblock. I also feel regret for having donated to the site before, but this will not happen again. Demonuminon (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 23:25, 23 June 2011 (UTC).
Thomas James BallWhy the hell did you delete his page?
Does his suffering mean nothing to you?
Heartless bitch. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.57.206.141 (talk • contribs)
Hey, Master of Puppets, OBVIOUSLY there is a public interested in keeping this article. Restore your deletion. Look at the massive flood of comments regarding your deletion here: http://www.<linkremoved>.com/2011/06/24/the-organized-silencing-of-a-man-publicly-burned-to-death/ and here http://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/i81rw/the_organized_silencing_of_a_man_publicly_burned/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Romerom (talk • contribs) 20:05, 24 June 2011 (UTC)
- Ball HIT A FOUR-YEAR-OLD CHILD, refused to pay child support, called for insurrection, demanded terrorism and violence as a solution, ultimately killed himself (leaving his children without a father) and damaged public property in the process. Even after all that, his incoherent message has mostly been ignored except by the less discriminating people claiming to speak for "men's rights" who haven't bothered to look into the details of his case. (If you really want to damage your cause, adopt a grown man who hits his own four-year-old child and flakes out on his child support as your poster boy.) --Orange Mike | Talk 20:26, 24 June 2011 (UTC) (proud father who has never hit his child in his lifetime)
Hey, "proud father who never hit his child in his lifetime", not everybody is against disciplining their children by spanking. He said his daughter was licking his hand, and he had told her repeatedly to stop. She didn't, and he smacked her. He didn't punch her, or send her to the hospital, or cause any serious injury. Just enough to have his wife baited into calling the police on him by child protective services. As for child support, he paid his child support until the point where he wasn't able to afford it due to an employment issue. Is that such a crazy thing to have happen? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.211.155.1 (talk) 04:28, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
- Again, while I do sympathize with the family and supporters, I am not taking sides, nor do I have any bias in this situation. I am not a feminist, nor am I a misogynist - I am fair and neutral towards all people, whether they be abusive fathers or abused fathers.
- This deletion was enforced solely in keeping with Wikipedia's long-established policies. Mr. Ball's death, while indeed tragic, was not reported throughout the reliable media enough to show his notability.
- I hope this makes sense to all those saddened by Mr. Ball's passing. Cheers, m.o.p 21:04, 24 June 2011 (UTC)
- I understand that you do not think that Mr. Ball's death is something that qualifies as an event and thus deleted said article. I disagree but I do see the merits of your argument. However, you claim to be unbiased in this debate and yet for someone who judges on the letter of the law you break the law and close debate 2.5 days before final judgment is to be rendered. If you have no corner then I ask why make this article a special case that it must be quelled , by your own admission, 2.5 days before any other articles found in similar circumstances are voted upon. I petition you to reinstate and allow the normal course of the discussion continue for the 2.5 days, allow the full opportunity for the pro side to make their case then recluse yourself from the final judgment. This is the only way to ensure transparency so that your claim of neutrality can be believed. CaffOMHW (talk) 03:28, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
- Ahead of things, let me tell you that I appreciate the civility.
- Wikipedia's policies aren't law - they're guidelines. As an administrator, it's my job to apply policy in a way that is completely devoid of bias and benefits the encyclopedia as a whole.
- On a side note, the deletion nomination was closed 1.5 days before the normal time. The page had a whole work week to be saved, rewritten or reworked; however, due to the lack of outside sourcing that carried reliability, there was nothing to keep that wasn't editorialized or unencyclopedic. I would also like to point out that almost every account that voiced their opinion in the 'keep' spectrum had either only edited that page or had edited very little aside from the page. Meanwhile, the deletion argument was put forward by experienced users.
- Though I understand that some people take offense to my early closure, I assure them that one extra day would not have yielded success, and that I took many factors into consideration before closing the discussion.
- Again, thank you for the civility, but I won't be overturning judgment or recreating a deletion discussion at this date. m.o.p 08:17, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
ITNthx for the 2 quick updates of my nom ;)
but also can you see the bolivia one. its got support and very nearly out of the news. we could tack it nearer the border.Lihaas (talk) 22:26, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
Ball closure.
Thank God you are an ambassador for WP, and against censorship, MoP. When Wikipedia fails, and it eventually will, it will largely be because most people don't like to be gamed and would rather not read well cultivated information that is maintained by dishonest brokers who hide behind rules that are never applied in an even-handed manner. The idea that a story is not relevant merely because it is not yet encyclopedic is ridiculous when one sees all the articles which linger on for months or years in the same state. The idea that a story is not relevant because the motivations/justifications of the user are suspect would be grounds for eliminating half the biographical articles in WP. It smacks of an agenda. The appearance of impropriety is as bad as actual impropriety.173.78.20.96 (talk) 04:51, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
- I appreciate the feedback.
- I do my best to maintain an equal, proportionate response in all dealings on Wikipedia; I don't defend things I like, or attack things I dislike, just for the reason of screwing with people. That strikes me as childish. Instead, the most I can do is try to help others understand Wikipedia policies, which are generally mind-bending and hard to grasp (for example, most people ask, "What's the reasoning a war hero isn't considered notable when Donkey Kong is?").
- Maybe one day the policies will change. I mean, most of these were written five, six year ago - the world's changing, and I expect they will with time. But, for now, the guidelines handle what comes in.
- Again, thanks for the input. I appreciate not being personally attacked - it makes it easier to reply. Cheers, m.o.p 05:08, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Natami (2nd nomination)
- The close was thoroughly thought-out, so there's not much ground for me to explore that I haven't already. If you're set on going to DRV, there's nothing I can say which will change your mind, and it's your right to ask for a review. However, current consensus sits at delete (unless the 'keep' side is hiding an ace-in-the-hole reliable source or something). Cheers, m.o.p 04:55, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- So, what about the reliable sources we already brought up in the AfD such as this interview in Amiga Future or this news article from nr2.ru? We've already established that Amiga Future isn't sponsored by a hardware company as one !voter there falsely claimed. On a related note, did you discount the !votes from individuals making misleading statements or those claiming there were "no independent reliable sources"? (I could tell you how that !voter happened to show up there, but he isn't going to like it.) I could also link to forum posts by another delete !voter who showed up there who was very much into a "delete at any cost" mode because he doesn't like "amiga clones". --Tothwolf (talk) 05:11, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- Those sources were there before the previous close, and I, like the previous administrator, do not think they're strong enough.
- I've already covered what kind of rationale was discounted and what wasn't.
- As for your last statement about other editors - I'm not quite sure what your point is, but I don't think it's relevant. As I said, I've discounted any rationale that does not apply policy.
- Cheers, m.o.p 05:33, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- Uh, no...nr2.ru was only brought up in the second AfD. Strong enough is also an argument to be made in a !vote, not a closing statement. --Tothwolf (talk) 05:56, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- My apologies, the Russian source was indeed added after the first AfD. Still too shaky for a stand-alone article, though. Cheers, m.o.p 13:42, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- To follow up on my earlier comment, while I don't really want to get into an "X did this because of Y" sort of thing with regards to this AfD, there were a number of delete !voters who showed up there for personal reasons/vendettas/bias and/or who made false statements about sources. Despite the template at the top of the AfD, the second AfD also didn't suffer from the forum canvassing that the first did. One of the delete !voters actually came by way of the forum and first AfD and was trolling because of his personal dislike of Amiga clones. --Tothwolf (talk) 15:33, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
If they have valid, policy-based rationale, their personal motivation doesn't matter, solely for the reason that an encyclopedia based on liking or disliking things would crumble instantly. I'm sure some of the deletion crew could just-as-easily blame keep voters for being enthusiasts and fans of Natami - but that's not important. As a result, making allegations of personal bias is unnecessary. The help is appreciated, but there's nothing I can do with the information. m.o.p 15:39, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- It matters when someone makes false statements and tries to hide what they are doing behind policy. As for keeps, quite a number appear to be from well established editors who don't appear to be all that interested in Amiga topics. As for myself, I wasn't even aware of NatAmi until the first AfD and didn't even !vote in the first AfD since I thought it was pretty obvious it was headed for a no-consensus close. --Tothwolf (talk) 15:58, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- Again, if their rationale is grounded in policy, their motivation does not matter, simply because it's impossible to discern someone's intent through text, and because the second someone accuses another of favoritism/malicious intent the entire argument turns into a bunch of people shouting, "You're lying." That's why there's nothing I can do with your information in this case. Cheers, m.o.p 16:02, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- Apologies to you, M.O.P., for addressing another editor on your talk page, but I just wanted to jump in this conversation. Tothwolf, with no prejudice against you at all I strongly suggest you take this in perspective. There have been two AFDs and an ANI report over this article. The way you treated me on my talk page threatening DRV because I was a new administrator was, as I feel it, borderline harassing. That you canvassed two other administrators to talk to me was also a below the belt move. In good faith, I relisted the debate and it has closed again as delete. I strongly suggest taking the advice at WP:DGAF into account here and let the issue go. I don't think there will be a problem recreating this article, even pulling the old content back from the deletion log, when the subject has better sources in a broader community. I hold no ill feeling toward you, this is purely honest advice.--v/r - TP 16:46, 27 June 2011 (UTC)]
- TParis, while you are correct in that this talk page is not the place for this, because you brought this up here and you seem to value honest feedback, I'll address this here.
In no way did I ever threaten you with DRV, let alone because you were a new administrator (discussion in question). I did however upon noticing that you had passed RFA only days earlier decide it best not to press you further in public and instead sent you this short email: "Sigh. I just noticed you just finished your RFA. The Natami AfD was a bad AfD to pick to close right out of the gate. It is likely to end up at DRV and given the magazine I mentioned, overturned. I really wish you would reconsider your close. You might have noticed I didn't even !vote in the AfD itself, however I did point out a number of things and took a couple of people to task for making false or misleading statements." That is the only email I sent you about the matter and not once did I ever threaten you with DRV. Please get your facts correct before making statements such as this because such mistakes can have a negative effect on others.
After you replied expressing your disagreement over the sources (and implied that I might be biased because I sometimes contribute to computing-related articles) I asked a number of other administrators (way more than two, actually) what they thought of the AfD's close because I wanted unbiased feedback to see if I was somehow totally off-track before I initiated a DRV. The feedback I got was fairly unanimous in that the close was problematic. Before I had a chance to draft a DRV however, you reverted your own close and relisted the AfD from scratch with a new listing. In no way did I ever "canvass" anyone to "talk to you" and if others did contact you directly, they did so at their own discretion and for their own reasons.
There indeed have been two AfDs, the first of which you closed (although one could also argue that the second was merely a relist of the first). The AN/I "discussion" you also mentioned wasn't really over this article or the first AfD, it was an attempt by someone to game AN/I when they were unable to bully me on their talk page. Please be more careful making these sort of blanket statements in the future because as I mentioned above such statements can cause problems for others. --Tothwolf (talk) 17:38, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- You're email was exactly like your reply here. You like to make threats without actually making them: "such statements can cause problems". There is very little way your email cannot be interpreted as anything other than a threat of DRV because I am a new administrator. This is all I'll say on M.O.P.'s talk page as I came here to offer honest advice and you don't seem interested in it. If you'd like to discuss further with me, you know where to find my talk page.--v/r - TP 17:51, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- TParis, in no way did I ever make an implied threat. While I may be a little blunt and abrasive at times (or maybe I'm just an assume good faith in that you simply misremembered the facts I outlined above when you made this statement here. It is easy to forget a few details here or there and not everyone maintains detailed notes for this sort of stuff (I do, for a number of reasons, although I didn't always).
As far as honest advice goes, this is a two-way street and I gave you my opinion as well. If you choose to ignore and discount it, so be it, but I'd suggest you be much more careful in the future and get your facts correct before you make the sort of statement you made above. Such statements can and do cause problems for other editors. Who knows, it may just be that you've not been around long enough yet to have witnessed people blocked or punished in some way because someone else didn't have their facts together. (If you do decide you want to continue this discussion, perhaps we should take this elsewhere.) --Tothwolf (talk) 18:14, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
]
Heaton Park Hebrew Congregation (2nd nomination)
Natami
Thought you might want to know
- (talk page stalker) That's just the same little ideological website which has been pushing for the "Martyrdom of St. Thomas Ball" attention since day one; no actual new coverage. --Orange Mike | Talk 14:34, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
- I guess I should also mention that the way I found it, was that someone tried submitting it to Fark.com last night. The admins did not greenlight it, so that particular submission/thread did not go to the main Fark page, appearing only to those with Totalfark accounts. The submission said something like "Wikipedia deletes burning man" (I'm not at a computer with TF access so I might not have that exactly right). It might, theoretically, based on the submission, be considered some sort of off-site canvassing (it was submitted with the asinine tag). For what its worth, the thread went uncommented, so I don't think that particular attempt garnered any support. I just wanted to drop a line in case that this was just the first drop of a large storm. If I see anything else, I'll drop a line here. Umbralcorax (talk) 15:58, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
Wiki ad
4chan raid
Thomas James Bell, new information
- (reliable sources. --Orange Mike | Talk 13:33, 30 June 2011 (UTC)]
Happy Birthday
![](//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3d/Nuvola_apps_cookie.svg/50px-Nuvola_apps_cookie.svg.png)
Just a happy Birthday message to you, Master of Puppets, from the Wikipedia Birthday Committee! Have a great day!
Monterey Bay (talk) 02:00, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
User:BillyMoses
Natami
AFD
- Your input is appreciated, though there's nothing I can do with it but take a note. If you'd like, you can weigh in at the next AfD(s), when/if they arise. Cheers, m.o.p 19:42, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
Dr Myko San – Health from Mushrooms
- I'd be happy to help! However, I'm currently away from a computer (typing this on my phone), so I'll have to check in on the 11th of July. Does that sound okay? m.o.p 15:40, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
- wp:NODEADLINE :-) LeadSongDog come howl! 15:48, 7 July 2011 (UTC)]
From a former Wikipedian
-71.234.90.0 (talk) 04:50, 8 July 2011 (UTC)
- Hey, thanks so much! I'm not sure who you are, but I really appreciate the sentiment. Hope all is well! m.o.p 20:49, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
Deletion review for Thomas James Ball
DRV comment
DRV
Could you please overturn the deletion of these files per File:Signature of Amitabh Bachchan.svg and File:Signature of Zakir Hussain.svg:
- File:Signature of Vishwanathan Anand.svg
- File:Signature of Vijay Mallya.svg
- File:Signature of Venkaiah Naidu.svg
- File:Signature of Sudeep Bandhopadhyay.svg
- File:Signature of Sonia Gandhi.svg
- File:Signature of Somnath Chatterjee.svg
- File:Signature of Ratan Tata.svg
- File:Signature of Kumar Mangalam Birla.svg
- File:Signature of Rajeev Shukla.svg
- File:Signature of Raj Babbar.svg
- File:Signature of Rahul Gandhi.svg
- File:Signature of Priyanka Vadra.svg
- File:Signature of P. T. Usha.svg
- File:Signature of Narendra Modi.svg
- File:Signature of Nandan Nilekani.svg
- File:Signature of Manish Tewari.svg
- File:Signature of Leander Paes.svg
- File:Signature of Lata Mangeshkar.svg
- File:Signature of Kumar Mangalam Birla.svg
- File:Signature of Karia Munda.svg
- File:Signature of Kapil Sibal.svg
- File:Signature of Kamal Nath.svg
- File:Signature of K. Kamraj.svg
- File:Signature of Jaya Bachchan.svg
- File:Signature of Gautam Gambhir.svg
- File:Signature of Brinda Karat.svg
- File:Signature of Bharatsinh Solanki.svg
- File:Signature of Bhairon Singh Shekhawat.svg
- File:Signature of B. K. Birla.svg
- File:Signature of Azim Premji.svg
- File:Signature of Arun Jaitely.svg
- File:Signature of Aishwarya Rai Bachchan.svg
- File:Signature of Abhishek Manu Singhvi.svg
- File:Signature of Abhishek Bachchan.svg
- File:Signature of Sting.svg
- File:Signature of Br. L. D. Lobo.svg
- File:Signature of VJ Rannvijay Singh Singha.svg
Diligent07Appears to be less than new. See User talk:Raoulduke25 where he states that this is a deliberate series of edits.
- Can you please help defend our collective effort of including the obscene middle-finger incident in the Cheney Mason article? It should be maintained in the article for public interest, etc. Please see the Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard#Cheney Mason discussion page and include your thoughts in favor of having the content remain in the interests of the public, etc
[8], [9] and even imputation that an editor has a connection with the person [10]. He has been on since April, and started off as being experienced on WP IMHO. Kindly keep an eye out please. Especially for any sign of a real "collective effort"? Such as [11]? Cheers. Collect (talk) 11:36, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
A cookie for you!
Keep up the good work defending the "Wiki" against genre warriors. Thanks for the help! talk) 17:31, 13 July 2011 (UTC)]
Hello. You have a new message at Lionelt's talk page.
Semi protection
OK, this thing with the militant atheism page is impossibleThese guys are incredible... I could dig up diffs to show you how they revert and wikilawyer even the SMALLEST attempt to move the article closer to NPOV. But that would take a long time for you to read. How about I show you this instead:
These guys are utterly without scruples. Who in their right mind would remove the NPOV dispute tag when heated arguments have been raging for weeks and NO moves whatsoever have been made to fix the article? Oh right, that would be someone in their right mind who is running a propaganda platform.
Anyway... I wanted to ask your advice on what to do. These guys are impossible to work with. Most of the other editors have given up and refuse to put this page on their watchlist. So what to do then? Request formal mediation? Articles for deletion? Something else?
Me and the other editors would like to see the page replaced with a disambiguation page... since literally ALL the content has already been covered (better) in Criticism of atheism, State atheism and New Atheism.
Obhave (talk) 13:21, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
- Hello User:Master of Puppets. I noticed this conversation and thought I might add that an NPOV policy. Obhave (talk) 13:11, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
- One more thing, m.o.p... my opponents are currently twisting your words to make it look as if you were scolding user:Mann_jess all along. Obhave (talk) 14:42, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
]
User:Jasper Deng page protection
- No worries! m.o.p 19:35, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
Is there a procedure for brutal uncollaborated editing with a destructive intent?I noticed that you recently had problems with proposed brutal editing by Peter S Strempel. Although he has been more sensible on your project in the end (possibly because of your administrator status?) he has not been so with regard to the astrology project pages to which he made a similar 'razor-promise'. Could you please see this Afd request which is one of three he made for major 'history of astrology' articles within the last hour, with a promise on another important page that any comment which is not refrences within 7 days will be removed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Babylonian_astrology
Is there anything that can be done about this officially to stop him wreaking havoc with content whilst he knows that the small group of editors providing content on these pages are already stretched to the limit trying to keep up with what needs to be done? I don't understand what drives some people to want to edit WP like this, but I think it is entriely the result of his ego-stress that when he proposed an edit for a passage, no one favoured it. Hope you can help or advise Zac Δ talk 01:15, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks! assume good faith; I believe that Peter is simply trying to help improve Wikipedia. While his methods may be lacking in some areas, he has displayed a pretty decent grasp on the policies he's trying to enforce.
- However, I agree that he shouldn't be making any changes if they're not discussed with the community first. Do you mind pulling up a few diffs of where he went against consensus? I'll approach him with your concern then. Thanks, m.o.p 03:57, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
- Actually there hasn't been any significant content dispute with Peter. He proposed a change to a section edit which wasn't a very good proposition and a few editors commented but without rancur, and I added a new section post immediately afterwards to point out the proiposed change would contradict with how the definition was given correctly at a later point in the article, outlining how I understood WP policy expected the main astrology article to pull its own content together, along with its summarised content from its daughter pages. Peter never responded to this but other editors started working in that direction immediately. Then, without further discussion or comment, Peter came back four days later to announce an intention to take his 'word razor' to all unreferenced assertions on the main astrology page, its sub-pages, and the portal page itself, to ensure his perceived disagreement was not circumvented in pages he viewed as content forks (I'm still not sure what he means by that). My response to that can be seen - a perfectly reasonable request for him to do what he felt was most productive, but consider that citation-tagging was the way to go. I also placed comments on his talk-page, which you can read if you are interested. That he erupted into a frenzy of AfD requests last night says something, I think, about his unwillingness to discuss and engage in other views. Most of his posts appear as new section declarations that don't appear to have considered the responses other editors give him.
- I've summarised this in the ANI request Dougweller started. The deletion requests were a step too far IMO, and I'm concerned that Peter would spring to such drastic measures in reaction to what he perceives to be me not allowing him to do what he wants to do. I'll be away for a few days so I'm tying up my WP activity now. That underlines my concern that he intends to take such drastic action with only one week's notice of intent. Thanks for looking into this. It would be good if something could be proposed to stop huge problems before they occur. 10:35, 22 July 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zachariel (talk • contribs
)
- One last request. I have just noticed that a related complaint, which is quite serious but has been sidetracked (deliberatly IMO) by Peter's suggestions that I have prevented him from doing what he wants, has been collapsed as "going nowehere" by an unsympathetic editor.
- "Its ben here several days and no admin has even sniffed at a block or ban - clearly you're not going to get admin action. So this should got to WP:DR or WP:RFCU if you want to take it further. I've boldly collapsed this, though I won't be surprised if someone uncollapses it"
- If you can find the time could you at least take a look at that related problem, and consider uncollapsing it, because the issues are serious and have gone beyond the point where Dispute resolution are appropriate. I will be away and have nothing more to add, but the problems identified still remain. Zac Δ talk 10:58, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
What to do?
- I've started a threat at ANI. Those AfDs are purely pointy and if no one objects I'll close them. talk) 06:11, 22 July 2011 (UTC)]
- Replied there. m.o.p 08:20, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
Talk Page on Militant Atheism - Introduction Section
- The update is appreciated, thanks very much. I've been dealing with life for the past two weeks, but I'll be back to close that discussion tonight or tomorrow. Thanks again, m.o.p 22:03, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
- Just bringing this up again, given the current state of this section. I believe the discussion will be archived automatically if not closed. I'm sorry if I sound pushy with you having a lot on your plate of late. If you would prefer, I could alert User:Fastily instead. Turnsalso (talk) 16:55, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
ITN
- I knew that tab I closed had unfinished business on it... thanks. 2008 University of Central Arkansas shootings is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.
The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2008 University of Central Arkansas shootings(2nd nomination) until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on good quality evidence, and our policies and guidelines.
Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article.
talk 14:00, 1 September 2011 (UTC)]
Hey
- Done! Both your userpage and the transcluded page are protected. Cheers, « ₣M₣ » 04:09, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Restored. m.o.p 05:21, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
]
User talk:Joshua the Independent
- My mistake - my block script auto-filled the edit summary. The block was issued due to the user's newfound will to disrupt Wikipedia intentionally. Their previous contributions are welcome, but this behaviour necessitates administrative action. m.o.p 21:52, 13 September 2011 (UTC)
Say hi to your imaginary girlfriend for me
- Well, I do love getting hate mail. Thanks for the laugh! Cheers, m.o.p 05:17, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
...further to the above lovely note, I weighed in on Calabe's talk page - there appears to be more confusion here than at first glance. bou·le·var·dier (talk) 05:19, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
Sorry to drop by again, but Silentsizzlingsausage (talk · contribs) would appear to be a duck. bou·le·var·dier (talk) 05:31, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
- No, it's not an issue! Thanks for the note, blocked. Cheers, WP:SPI. Thanks again, m.o.p 06:13, 14 September 2011 (UTC)]
I have to admit ...
- See the above section. The link is apparently a very subtle spam link that Calabe is removing, and socks are springing up to revert him. Swarm u / t 10:20, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
Moderation
- Alright, I'll make my way back. Thanks for letting me know! m.o.p 05:18, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
User:12.139.96.228
- To be honest, this case is perplexing. Half of this user's edits are constructive (mostly sourced), the other half aren't sourced - and the user won't reply to anybody. I'm also too busy to go through every edit and confirm whether or not it's good. I forgot about this for a while - I'll think about it tonight and figure something out for tomorrow. Thanks for reminding me! m.o.p 05:18, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
Whoops
- Whoops! Must not have been looking when I ran my block script. Thanks for letting me know, I've reblocked them for a far shorter (technically, an infinitely shorter) time. Cheers, m.o.p 22:58, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
Ashleyleggat404
- You're fully right in that the blanking policy covers indefinite blocks. I've removed the user's talk page rights as a result. Thanks again! m.o.p 00:28, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkback
Moderation
- If you look into this please consider whether Anupam's actions on the talk page and the entry itself are violations of WP:OWN. He's been driving off those he disagrees with by bludgening them to death with argument and heavily policing the entry claiming that there is a consensus written in stone despite many dissenting voices. Others have taken to simply calling him "the article's owner." I have had enough of this behavior personally and left him a message about it on his talk page. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:52, 20 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Dear User:Master of Puppets, the above user has misrepresented the occurrences at the article. I started another Introduction discussion at the article's talk page but User:Griswaldo has chosen to edit war over a second NPOV tag, despite the fact that one already exists in the article. He has done so despite the fact that the Introduction is being discussed in a peaceful manner at the talk page, in violation of your injunction: "We've only got consensus on this proposed versions (and loose consensus at that) - please do not attempt to subvert said consensus by making undiscussed changes." I have posted a message on his talk page about this behaviour. Nevertheless, I also do not wish to argue with the user personally and would prefer if you could go back to moderating the discussion between the two parties at the talk page. Thanks for taking the time to read this message. With regards, AnupamTalk 20:58, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- His "injunction?" Adding a neutrality tag to a specific sentence which an editor disputes the neutrality of is hardly "subverting the consensus by making undiscussed changes." Please stop wikilawyering to get your way. There is a growing consensus against your position regarding this article in general as well, despite your aggressive policing of the entry and the talk page. See ]
- I just thought that I would mention that User:Griswaldo, after seeing this message, just now decided to comment in the discussion rather than edit war against consensus further. Thanks for taking the time to read this message. With regards, AnupamTalk 21:51, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- "Edit war against consensus further?" My comment there has nothing to do with your message here. I've made three total edits to this entry ever. One was a copy edit in June, another was reverting an IP vandal, and the third was the revert of your Ownership edit. Please do not insinuate that I'm a edit warrior on this page. It is disingenuous.Griswaldo (talk) 22:08, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Thank you all for approaching me with your concerns.
- Obviously, I do not support Anupam - this is because I'm remaining a neutral third party, and, therefore, can't take sides. However, Griswaldo: please keep in mind that I did ask for all discussion to take place on the talk page. Why not just add your complaints to the talk page? It would have been much easier to discuss.
- I do agree that adding a NPOV tag, while slightly redundant, isn't horrible, but your intent seems to have been to stir discussion on that particular section, discussion that would be much more appropriate on the talk page.
- As for your and Snalwibma's concerns of Anupam trying to 'own' the article, I'm curious as to what you two mean; what 'delusions'?
- Also, Griswaldo, I don't think Anupam meant to insinuate you are an edit warrior (though this is just my take) - rather, they wanted to add the note that you've weighed in on discussion. m.o.p 22:10, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- your intent seems to have been to stir discussion on that particular section - No that's incorrect. I didn't add this tag, I simply reverted Anupam's attempt to own the page when he removed it. I agreed with JimWae's addition of the tag and found Anupam's removal to be unwarranted and a display of ownership.Griswaldo (talk) 22:16, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Note that, for all intents and purposes, reverting somebody is adding whatever is included in your edit, regardless of who put it there first. You revert a removal, you're agreeing with the edition you're reverting to - simple.
- And, if you agreed with JimWae, then we go back to what I was saying earlier - say so on the talk page. Two of you agree? Great! That's closer to consensus. But it means nothing if you express your support by reverting removals.
- Again, as I've asked multiple times, please stop saying that Anupam is owning anything without giving me evidence of it first. m.o.p 22:22, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Dear User:Master of Puppets, thank you for your reply to all of us. The reason User:Snalwibma stated that I was attempting to "own" the article was because I reverted an undiscussed removal from the article, which not only myself, but two other users objected to. In fact, two anonymous IP Addresses also reverted User:Snalwibma. I was open to compromise on the issue and stated that I would accept User:Turnsalso's compromise on the issue. I kindly request you to look at that discussion yourself and get an honest reading of it. Also, the only reason I removed the second NPOV tag was because there was already one present, which I did not remove. I only reverted the addition of a second NPOV tag once and even explained myself on the talk page. When I went to the talk page, I found rude accusations and an anti-collaborative spirit, despite the fact that I have been nothing but polite. I hope this helps. With regards, AnupamTalk 22:25, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry - I know I should not rise to the bait, but I have to object to the comment "The reason User:Snalwibma stated that I was attempting to 'own' the article was because I reverted an undiscussed removal ..." How dare Anupam presume to know what is in my mind! The reason I describe Anupam's attitude to the article as one of ownership is because that is how s/he behaves - "policing" every edit, pronouncing on whether s/he "accepts" or "rejects" it, peremptorily reverting anything s/he does not like, without discussion, presuming to know others' motives, and judging them as fit/unfit to contribute to the article. This has been going on for weeks, if not months. It is impossible to discuss the content of the article, let alone improve the text, because everything is filtered through the approval/disapproval of the article's self-appointed guardian, Anupam. tendentious or disruptive when they bring up certain issues, even when they are clearly in the majority. That is not collaborative. I stopped editing the article heavily because of those issues. I don't have any delusions that my opinion is worth more than anyone else's here, but I would think that the large number of established, experienced editors who are all saying there's a problem, would indicate something. — Jess· Δ♥ 19:45, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
Please reconsider your full protection of Militant atheist
- In case you didn't notice, I asked that people think twice about pointing fingers at each other. If you'd like to start a sockpuppetry investigation, let me know, and we can take that avenue - however, don't accuse other editors of ownership without substance. If you think Anupam is trying to own things, give me something. Diffs, edits, anything. I'll check it out for you, but right now, baseless accusations are not what I'm looking for.
- Also, notice that I protected the article with your edit being the last one. How is that validating the very person you've been reverting?
- The protection will stay until consensus is reached. m.o.p 22:19, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Because protection is what he wants quite clearly. He's stalling conversation and shouting down people on the talk page, where, if you have a look, you'll see he's clearly in the minority. Because of your "injunction" as he calls it, he also claims that no matter how many people agree with a certain change it is illegitimate. I'll be happy to gather some diffs, but my first message to you above was to please look into the situation carefully before acting on it. Did you do that and come to the conclusion that I'm wrong or did you not head that request? Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:29, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Yes, I did heed your request. I don't see any ownership behaviour from Anupam, though, being involved in multiple disputes, I didn't have the time to read every last word on the page, so you're free to provide evidence. However, from what I can see, Anupam's last proposal was supported by the majority - not to count (and I don't mean to imply that I decide where consensus lies by looking at pure numbers), but from looking at pure supports versus opposes, eight people (nine including Anupam) support while four oppose. How does that make Anupam's views a minority? m.o.p 22:37, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- It depends on what view you are talking about. The current RFC on the introduction is something that most people don't even want to engage because most people think this very entry should be split up and integrated into other entries. I reluctantly engaged the RfC just now myself. The last time the more serious question about the entry was asked, several of the new commentators were not around, and there was "no consensus" found because the opposing side was chalk full of SPAs and editors with a view that is outright hostile to atheism (which is a legitimate view to hold, but it is a minority view). Let me find you some diffs.Griswaldo (talk) 22:43, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- User:Griswaldo, that is exactly the issue: you do not want to collaborate with other users on the talk page, which is why you were reluctant to participate in the current RfC. Moreover, there were several SPA's on the side of the opposition as well, including WP:NPOV. In addition, the split was again recently discussed and the specific case to do so was refuted by several editors. As such, there was no consensus for it. I hope this helps. With regards, AnupamTalk 22:52, 20 September 2011 (UTC)]
- No. You are trying to write an article that violates WP:SYNTH because it conflates New Atheism with oppressive communist regimes and their histories of violence. That's hardly NPOV. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:59, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
Hi m.o.p., as someone who occasionally looks at that page (and then washes my hands), I just want to compliment you as having done the right thing in full protecting. By way of unsolicited advice to the involved editors, the best thing they could do is to allow The Wrong Version to sit there a good long time, and devote their energy to other things. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:54, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
]
Yes, please reconsider your full protection of
WP:RS—deserve protection against misinformed reverts. Thanks Geremia (talk) 16:12, 22 September 2011 (UTC)]
Diffs of
- I'm not really sure where the ownership is here; nowhere in our policies is it stated that a user can't promote their RFC on the subject talk page. If it's ongoing and they'd like to move it to the forefront, what's wrong with that? More so, some of your summaries seem inaccurate - in that last diff, you state that Anupam is removing images, yet I only see Anupam adding an image (the peace dove that's at the top of the page). Also, you use repeating examples. m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Well clearly the last diff was wrong. Thanks for the vote of confidence. There are no repeat examples nor inaccurate summaries, just a mistaken copy paste of the second to last diff to the last position as well. I have fixed it. Cheers.
- Using "consensus claims from one RfC to reject changes made to article content
- Same as above. Using the "consensus" bludgeon to get his way. Please note that clearly we ought to edit by consensus, but this consensus is highly disputed, and IMO not there in the first place. The real problem is the way in which Anupam decides to use it like a trump card to remove changes he doesn't like. Ask yourself if all changes post "consensus" have been removed or just the ones Anupam decided he wanted removed.
Master of Puppets do you need more diffs or is this enough?Griswaldo (talk) 23:31, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Well I need more diffs because your "evidence" so far looks like a desperate attempt to incriminate an editor who has been very successful in persuading his colleagues to adopt his proposals. Anupam has presented his proposals, argued the merits and persuaded many editors. Anything you want to tell us about why you're having difficulty doing likewise? – Lionel (talk) 06:02, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- I don't see this is as conclusive evidence, either. And, it should be said - if people are editing against established consensus, then people are free to re-evaluate consensus, but edit-warring against it doesn't make much sense. m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- If not ownership then what is this - [28], [29], [30]? He removes two RfCs started by another editor, and revolving around the question that many of us actually find to be the fundamental question to answer regarding the entry. Then he edit wars to keep these RfCs off the page, claiming again to have some sort of authority stemming from your prior actions. If you aren't willing to do something here I'm going to another administrator and I'm going to ask for your initial "consensus," your strong arm administrating, and your lack of action here to be reviewed as well. Thanks.Griswaldo (talk) 17:08, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Anupam has already apologized for reverting those RfC additions, and we've moved past it. He also didn't claim to have administrative authority, but was waiting for my approval. We've cleared this up, it's not an issue. So no, I'm not going to take any action (as I've said here and on ANI). Now, if you'd like to threaten me and tell me that, since I'm not cooperating with your wills, you'll go to another administrator, that's fine - as I've said, you can seek outside opinions - but remember to keep a cool head, because borderline threats are not appreciated. m.o.p 21:49, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- It was not a threat, "borderline" or otherwise. You are conveniently ignoring a growing number of voices who are all saying the same thing - there is an ownership problem here. The deletion issue has not been "cleared up" as far as I'm concerned. Whenever it is mentioned Anupam insists that he did not "unilaterally" delete the RfCs from the page, which is a blatant distortion, since that is exactly what he did. He continues to act as a policeman at the page, and yes he does continue to cite your authority. Did you bother to read the many diffs I posted above in the second two sections? I will quote three random examples from those I provided for you if you want.
- When he first deleted the two RfCs he wrote: "rv - see discussion with reviewing administrator; approval needed to start another RfC while one is already occurring."
- When he deleted a fact tag that JimWae put into the lede: "rv excessive tagging per talk; tag is already extant in header; do not subvert previous consensus but gain consensus for potential additions per administrative notice"
- When he rejected another recent change to the entry: "accepted edits by User:Jkhwiki; rv removal of longstanding referenced content - see discussion on talk page and gain consensus for action per administrative injunction"
- In talk page comments and in edit summaries he consistently does the same thing. He refers to your authority, either directly or indirectly through your "notice" or your "injunction" as he likes to call it. I never said the claimed to have administrative authority, I said that he's using your authority, by way of your comments, such as the closure of the AfD to bully people. Do you deny that he citing your comments, because if you do then I must have fabricated those quotes. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:32, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
If you say "If you don't do A, then I'm going to go and do B", that's a threat. Anyway, that's not the issue - we've already covered all the issues with the RfC reverting, and Anupam won't do it again. Why keep raising hell over it?
We've already covered everything you bring up. And no, I'm not denying anything. I'm just saying this, and it's very simple: I don't think there has been any blatant ownership here. That's my judgment. If you disagree, again, feel free to raise this with another administrator or on ANI. m.o.p 23:12, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Regarding the new RFC, I still think there has not passed yet too much time since the last discussion about splitting the article. As far as I knew, repeating these sorts of debates (like splitting, deleting, renaming) before a larger amount of time has passed (like 6 months) is usually discouraged. And as others have also argued earlier, even if having multiple RFCs is possible, it's not very useful, and the new RFC seems to discourage further discussion about improving the lead introduction. So preventing multiple RFCs (and also a RFC about an issue debated not too long ago) does not look to me like evidence of bad faith intentions. Cody7777777 (talk) 21:37, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Cody, would you mind linking me to the previous RfC on splitting? m.o.p 21:49, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- The previous attempt to split the article can be found here. Cody7777777 (talk) 21:55, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Response
Yes, it does. Thanks, m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Dear User:Master of Puppets, I just noticed that User:Binksternet started another RfC while a current one is occurring. Is this appropriate? I reverted the addition motioning for one until your response is confirmed. If it is acceptable, then I apologize and will revert my edit. I look forward to your response. With regards, AnupamTalk 15:14, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'll form my reply on ANI. m.o.p 17:12, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- When you do please take into account my comment just above, regarding Anupam's edit warring to remove talk page comments (namely these RfCs) posted by others on the talk page. If you still don't think this is WP:OWN then clearly other administrators are needed here.Griswaldo (talk) 17:15, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Dear User:Griswaldo, how is going to a neutral mediator to address the issue owning the article? I acknowledge that the article is in dispute and as a result, I am asking an administrator for advice in this matter, NOT handling things on my own, as you have done by edit warring. Your WP:OWN allegations have not only been dismissed by this administrator, but by several other users, including, User:Lionelt, User:Cody7777777 and User:NYyankees51. Thanks, AnupamTalk 17:27, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- In reply to Griswaldo: reverting the RfCs was a mistake, but we've cleared that up now. As Anupam has stated at ANI, the intent was not to discourage discussion. If you think my judgment is compromised, you're welcome to seek another administrator's input. m.o.p 21:04, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- And as further evidence of WP:OWN, see this. Anupam adds a comment to everything that anyone else says, as if he/she is the owner of the article and everyone else is a subordinate contributor. This particular instance is pretty benign (although it clutters up the talk page with an unnecessary comment that merely says "I agree"), but I do think that Anupam at least needs to learn how to avoid giving the appearance of thinking he/she owns the article, and to desist from chipping in and saying the same thing over and over again, which almost makes meaningful discussion impossible! SNALWIBMA ( talk - contribs ) 17:31, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- While the input is appreciated, as I've said before, making allegations of ownership without hard evidence isn't going to get us anywhere. Anupam is not stopping others from discussing changes or forming consensus, and that's all that matters - refactoring the talk page or commenting on an issue is not against policy, and I'm not going to tell someone to stop editing because it "looks" like they're doing something wrong. As said above, you're welcome to request another administrator's insight if you wish. m.o.p 21:04, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
COIHi
you've helped me out before, with a conflict of interest problem, so having much more experience than me on wikipedia, I thought I would be bold enough to ask again for help.
Similar problem to last, User_talk:Hobbycraft is editing the HOBBYCRAFT article and making changes that aren't citably right. I think the user name suggest and history suggests a conflict of interest case.
Can you please, speak to them addressing this issue.
Thank you very much for your help.
Markcoulter50 (talk) 22:27, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
- I've blocked that user for username violations. Thanks a lot for letting me know! Keep up the great work, m.o.p 23:00, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkbackcausa sui (talk) 18:47, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Hello. You have a new message at causa sui's talk page. causa sui (talk) 20:54, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Problematic editing on militant atheism
- I hope it's not considered defamatory to repeat the final line: "I merely present the diffs above, and let others draw their own conclusions. Is this a duck? Does it quack? You decide.". Unfortunately, the concerned community no longer has that opportunity. What did you decide on their behalf? Does this duck quack, or not? bobrayner (talk) 15:42, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- It's not your wording, it's the very idea of it. Going to what's allegorically a public place and shouting, "Hey, everybody, this man is a criminal!" is one step below blatantly forming a lynch mob. As I've said, I have no problem with your wording or evidence, just your location of choice. Wikipedia is not, unfortunately, a democracy - letting others draw their conclusions and voice their opinions is not how a sockpuppet investigation works.
- So yes, please don't go restoring any of that section. We're not discussing editors, we're discussing the content they produce. Anything else has a sub-board to deal with it (like WP:SPI).
- Hopefully that clears things up! I'll be happy to answer any more questions should you have them. Cheers, m.o.p 15:48, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Hello User:Bobrayner, I noticed the section you created on the militant atheism talk page. If you do feel the way you do about User:Turnsalso and the anonymous IP Addresses, you can take this up with WP:SPI. Thanks, AnupamTalk 15:52, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
Are you kidding my MoP? Above your write: Going to what's allegorically a public place and shouting, "Hey, everybody, this man is a criminal!" is one step below blatantly forming a lynch mob. AND We're not discussing editors, we're discussing the content they produce. Yet you call this edit by Lionelt "good faith," at WQA? MoP, I would not ask you to agree with me or to like me, but can I please ask you not to insult me with these double standards.Griswaldo (talk) 16:18, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
]
- Griswaldo, I mean no offense when I say this, but I'd appreciate it if you stayed out of discussions which didn't involve you. Also, please don't put words in my mouth. Thanks, m.o.p 16:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I have not put words in your mouth. You said that you would assume good faith about Lionel. If you "assume good faith" it means you assume his edits were in "good faith." If you did not intend that meaning I suggest you reconsider what you wrote. Also, if you want me to "stay out of discussion which don't involve me" then I suggest your first order of business should be to do the same thing yourself. You decided to post at WQA, when there was no mention of you or anything you've done in that thread. Once again, I expect people not to practice double standards. So as long as you cannot show me that you will treat me as you ask to be treated yourself, I will not oblige you. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:21, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Please stop bickering. I'm not quite sure what you're trying to accomplish here. I've already explained what I meant when I said assuming good faith, but I'll explain again: I assumed that Lionelt was not hounding or deliberately haranguing you. I did not say, at any point, that his edit content was good faith, and I've told him not to edit like that again. So please stop accusing me of saying things I haven't said.
- Also, I posted in WQA because, as a mediator in this case and as an administrator, it's my duty to weigh in on administrative noticeboards, especially when the case is an ongoing discussion I've been participating in for three months. It is not your duty to weigh in on discussions on my talk page that don't concern you. I hope the distinction is clear here. m.o.p 20:33, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I think you are confused about something. Content is never good faith. "Editing in good faith" and "good faith edits" refers to the intent of the editor always. It has nothing to do with content. My assumption that you also felt the edits were appropriate comes from the fact that you did not say they weren't appropriate and clearly feel that his intentions were good. If you'd like to set the record straight on that issue you still can. I've asked you twice now to discuss the actual edits that are the focal point of the thread. Also, I moved the thread to ANI, per the suggestion of the editor who marked it "resolved."Griswaldo (talk) 20:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- See Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#User:Lionelt_--_following_my_past_edits_to_drum_up_support_against_me. FYI, I copy pasted the entire discussion because both you and Collect were critical of my initial post and I thought it was the right thing to do to preserve that criticism in the record of the conversation. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:43, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- In reply to your first paragraph: I'm going to give up now, as it seems you're misunderstanding most of what I type, but you're the one who stated that the content was not good faith (as you said, not appropriate), and I agreed - I referred to his intent in replying to you, and said that I assumed good faith in his motives, not his replies. I can't really say that in a clearer way, so my apologies if it's hard to understand. Also, as I've already said, I've left a message for Lionelt about his edits, so clearly I do not feel they're appropriate. m.o.p 20:57, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I, too, find these double standards vexing.
- Which diff is defamatory?
- I had hitherto thought that people on the article talkpage might like to be aware of potential problems with votestacking on the article talkpage (and 3rr evasion, of course). Would it be permitted to add a link to that list of diffs when it's in a different place, or would you consider that defamatory too? bobrayner (talk) 16:23, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- As I said, the information is not defamatory, but the way it's presented is - we have specific processes available to pursue should one feel there are sockpuppets about. However, calling someone out with the intent of informing the community is overstepping your authority and damaging to the accused's character. Also, there's no way a community discussion about whether or not one editor is a sockpuppet can end in anything other than a sockpuppet investigation anyway.
- So, in closing, please don't bring issues like this to the talk page. If you're concerned about votestacking, take it to the appropriate venue - if your concerns are validated, we'll take measures against said puppets. Cheers, m.o.p 16:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I am very disappointed that it's no longer permissible to raise problems with article-editing on the article talkpage. Previous concerns about sockpuppetry were simply ignored; the difference this time is that it's backed by lots of diffs.
- I'm fairly confident that the people concerned have sufficient technical nous to make checkuser draw a blank. And, let's be entirely honest, within minutes of me creating an SPI, an admin of the right persuasion will be getting an email suggesting that an SPI needs their attention. And SPI does not see offsite coordination by a facebook group &c. Finally, any null result at SPI will be used at the article in much the same way as previous administrative decisions have been. So, I do not believe that an SPI will improve either the article, or the encyclopædia as a whole. bobrayner (talk) 17:08, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- If you don't think the pre-existing methods set in place for situations like this are sufficient, you can always raise that concern at the village pump or suggest a policy revision - however, SPI is the venue for these requests, and the only venue. The talk page can not substitute. m.o.p 17:10, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
76.228.226.122Thank you for blocking the anonymous user, who is being counterproductive and rude. (although I think the block should have been one week, but I guess ok at least)
Can you also please try to hide the edit summaries of these edits if possible?
This and
this
Thanks and regards, talk 05:04, 26 September 2011 (UTC)]
- I'll extend the block if this behaviour continues after the block period is over.
- As for the edit summaries, those don't warrant hiding - I apologize for their content, but they don't meet the criteria of what I should remove. It's best just to ignore them for now. Cheers, m.o.p 05:13, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
- Okay, good to know, if I did nothing wrong, no permanent block will be enforced. The IP does not volunteer on WP as an admin and so the disproportionately out of line comments and threats of his should be ignored. --talk 05:19, 26 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Sounds good. We only hide extremely offensive revisions; milder ones stay in the edit history. Thanks again for bringing this to our attention! Cheers, m.o.p 05:31, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
Email
Jasper Deng (talk) 05:29, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
- Reading. talk) 06:00, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Bad Girls Club
- I've blocked Junebea for 2 days for disregarding warnings. m.o.p 20:30, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks for helping :) Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 21:06, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkback
- And again.Griswaldo (talk) 04:24, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
- And again ... but maybe the last. You can settle this question once and for all. See the talk page.Griswaldo (talk) 06:09, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'm sure I'm not alone in wanting to hear your replies to the last responses posed to you at that page. IMO, I don't know why you went down the road you did, but as far as I can tell you're blatantly misrepesenting facts about your own actions when people are brining concerns to you. You might think that since you closed the RfC the matter is settled, but it is not. You're actions have not made my life any more pleasant in the last few days vis-a-vis trying to deal with Anupam's disruption and I think you owe us all answers. So please revisit this thread and deal with the open questions. Thanks.Griswaldo (talk) 02:19, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
- I invite you to stop asking the same question again and again. This would be appreciated. Thanks, m.o.p 02:33, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Block question
- No, I just block obviously bad-faith accounts on sight. Advertising/spam accounts fall under that category. m.o.p 00:37, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Thanks
- Thank you. I've unlocked the article for whatever may come. If I'm needed again, feel free to let me know. Thanks for the kind words again, m.o.p 05:12, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
reminder
- We're still waiting to see if the user understands COI policy (per Ed's question). I'll prod the user and see if they'll answer. talk) 19:20, 30 September 2011 (UTC)]
Nextel logo deleted
- Mmm, good point. What's the link to the logo in question? m.o.p 01:33, 2 October 2011 (UTC)
Support of Sage City SymphonyYou deleted this page before I had a chance to go back in and add the stuff that you wanted to see, including the links within Wikipedia to important composers such as Lou Callabro (who started this orchestra and cites it in his Wikipedia page) and Susan Hurley whose work we premiered (SC is also mentioned in her Wikipedia entry). (Let alone links about the works we have performed.) And we have a web site at www.sagecitysymphony.org, have existed for over 35 yrs and are a significant cultural resource in the Bennington area such that we receive grants from local, statewide and national foundations.
I broke my wrist last weekend and am doing one-handed pecking so it'll take me a few days to get that loaded in. We are going out for a bit now, but I would appreciate your undeleting the page so that I don't have to re-invent the starting part when I go back in tomorrow to add links. Or delete it entirely so that I can start fresh - at this point either would work as long as I can start some serious work on it tomorrow. I am the webmaster by the way, so I do have access to content and more links.
Thank you, Celia Murray — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.228.127.119 (talk) 14:22, 1 October 2011 (UTC)
- It looks like fixed everything up. Best of luck, m.o.p 01:35, 2 October 2011 (UTC)]
Reply on Deterence's talk page
MA
After the beating you took you deserve a cold one--on me! Thanks for being fair and balanced – Lionel (talk) 03:55, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
- Hey, thanks! Glad to help out. :) m.o.p 03:56, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
Deletion of Mau5trap Recordings
--neocharles (talk) 07:33, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Existence does not equal notability - the subject has to be notable to get a Wikipedia page. m.o.p 12:05, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
Questoin re: AIV
- Addendum, actually, I read it very clearly in WP:VANDNOT: "Uploading or using material on Wikipedia in violation of Wikipedia's copyright policies is prohibited, but is not vandalism unless the user does so maliciously or fails to heed warnings." So if a person fails to heed warnings it is vandalism. My mistake here was that I only warned once. --Muhandes (talk) 12:29, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Eh, technically it is vandalism, but the user seems to be trying to improve the Wikipedia - that desire to help is misplaced in this case, as they seem to think that using copyrighted content is actually better. Weird. For most cases, yes, you should report copyvio to AIV - as long as they've been warned sufficiently. m.o.p 12:42, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- OK, he now did it again and the time stamp is after your last warning. Is it vandalism now? --Muhandes (talk) 12:32, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Yeah, if they're outright ignoring warnings. I've blocked for three days. m.o.p 12:40, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
Classmusic
- Oh, I know. But if somebody's lied to my face about using another account - and to other editors working on the article - I'm not about to let them go without a repercussion or two. I'd like Almost-instinct and Voceditnore to look over the article and fix up anything shifty. Also, I'd like Classmusic to respond to my warning, instead of blanking it and ignoring like they have to the above-named editors.
- So, in short, I know that COI doesn't bar editing, but it's enough of a concern that, given the user's recent behaviour, I'll stop them from doing anything until we've figured things out. This isn't too rouge-y, is it? I didn't hear that. Perhaps he is unaware of the sockpuppet investigation findings. Anyhow it seems that DeltaQuad has also blocked the Classmusic account. I left a note on his page about using the unblock template, but re-iterated that he needs to read the COI and Autobiography guidelines and stick to them scrupulously, if he gets unblocked. In the Opera and Classical Music WikiProjects, we get a lot of articles for performers, ensembles, etc. created by their agents and PR people, and often themselves. In my experience, the best I can hope for after one of these tussles is that they'll edit their article according to the guidelines in future. I have yet to find a single one who has ever contributed anything else to Wikipedia. Their only interest in the project is as a PR tool. Having said that, at least it results (after much red-pencilling from other editors) in one new article on a notable subject that we didn't have before and in a small way redresses the pop culture systemic bias here. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 13:40, 5 October 2011 (UTC)]
Danish election
- Never mind, it's been pulled by another admin. All the best, Jenks24 (talk) 11:03, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry about that! I was busy all day and didn't get your message until now. Thanks for letting me know, though! Cheers, m.o.p 19:51, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
3RRHey there! :)
Well WP:CRYSTAL has wined down, however, there's currently a
The Bad Girls Club (season 7). I have notified the two users [32], [33]. The evidence can be found here. They are having an edit-conflict on how the "Duration of cast" should be presented. Since there's no rules regarding anything like that, and it was made up about a year ago, I couldn't warned them to stop their e/c with anything except the 3RR rule. Maybe they need an admin to tell them to stop, so that's why I came to you :) Thanks, Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 01:17, 6 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Temporary page protection requested. Calabe1992 (talk) 01:29, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
Wait
- How was this a copy-paste move? It was a recreation of a deleted article. Sasata (talk) 23:46, 10 February 2011 (UTC)
- Which was, to my knowledge, notabilified. Is that a word? m.o.p 01:05, 11 February 2011 (UTC)
:D![](//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/29/Choco_chip_cookie_bitten.jpg/100px-Choco_chip_cookie_bitten.jpg)
CharlieEchoTango has eaten your {{cookie}}! The cookie made them happy and they'd like to give you a great big hug for donating it. Spread the WikiLove by giving out more {{cookie}}s, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend. Thanks again!
Spread the goodness of cookies by adding {{subst:cookie}} to someone's talk page with a friendly message, or eat a cookie with {{subst:munch}}!
[[CharlieEchoTango]] 01:38, 11 February 2011 (UTC)
Blanking of material at The Deputy
- MOP, how would you feel about one month of full protection for this article? I see that Ekwos has stopped by to remove the section again. The dispute about the KGB connection has been running for almost a year now. Full protection could motivate people to discuss the issue, and perhaps create an RfC. Thanks EdJohnston (talk) 20:32, 11 February 2011 (UTC)
- One month of pending changes is better, I think. I don't like limiting legitimate editors, but this will disallow further warring from disrupting the 'pedia. m.o.p 07:10, 12 February 2011 (UTC)
Deletion of Gabriel Weinberg
- It wasn't my decision to delete the article. We had clear community consensus. Please stop taking thins personally. m.o.p 07:10, 12 February 2011 (UTC)
Edit summariesActually user:Zjarriretues is removing a reliable source [[1]] that mentions his ethnicity and places another that's more suitable to his national standarts. Although the source Zjarri. prefers is also 'rs' he did not disagree in the article's talkpage with my version [[2]].
Unfortunately when a couple of months passed you prefered to make his revert per
wp:ninja, without explaining the reason of this (very) delayed revert.Alexikoua (talk) 17:03, 14 February 2011 (UTC)]
I reverted myself, however, an explanation is needed in the talkpage by the user since he agreed in the past with the version I've presented on Aug..Alexikoua (talk) 17:14, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
Your friend the the IP
sent you an email
- One of your userboxes says you're only 17! I would have sworn you were older than that! ; ) --Kenatipo speak! 23:40, 16 February 2011 (UTC)
Godzilla
- I feel that it doesn't. If you check our crystal ball policy, you'll notice that it says, "It is appropriate to report discussion and arguments about the prospects for success of future proposals and projects or whether some development will occur, if discussion is properly referenced." That policy is meant to stop unsourced conjecture and speculation by editors, so I think we're fine in this case. The Hobbit film project with all its troubles). Here, with Godzilla, the reports are extremely normal. The studio announces its plans for a film, and a director is attached for it (which is not a guarantee). That's what it boils down to, and it's not enough to be more than a news source. Erik (talk | contribs) 16:11, 17 February 2011 (UTC)
- I appreciate that you've explained your position to me (though I did read your points in the AFD thread) but I can't delve into stuff like this. If you're not happy with my close, you're fully welcome to ask another administrator or even open another AFD. m.o.p 16:15, 17 February 2011 (UTC)
- I won't do anything for now. I would just prefer to keep such articles a rarity. Following films for some time, a lot of people tend to create an article about a film the moment it is announced (or the moment something new happens, like a new director). I do like to report discussion (did so at Concrete Island) but it's more a matter of where for me, to ensure topics of enduring notability. I did want to ask, do you think a merge discussion in general would be more beneficial? I feel like an AFD like that foments a keep-or-delete mentality that overrides the in-between solution of reporting discussion under a broader article until we can be near certain a film will exist. Erik (talk | contribs) 16:21, 17 February 2011 (UTC)
- A merge discussion would be great; I could weigh in and such. Feel free to open one up if you'd like to. m.o.p 23:03, 17 February 2011 (UTC)
]
Please respond
userspace
Talkback 16:14, 19 February 2011 (UTC)
Protect my talk page
- Lately, this IP also misused the edit war template on my talk page.Jasper Deng (talk) 00:37, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
Block an IP
E-Mail
nice guyhiii master of puppets,
ok do u know the movie Twilght saga ?
rply me back i want 2 talk 2 u a lot because i like ur pesonalty.BY
talk) 11:58, 28 April 2011 (UTC)]
File source problem with File:MoPuppetarmy.pngThank you for uploading File:MoPuppetarmy.png. I noticed that the file's description page currently doesn't specify who created the content, so the copyright status is unclear. If you did not create this file yourself, you will need to specify the owner of the copyright. If you obtained it from a website, please add a link to the website from which it was taken, together with a brief restatement of that website's terms of use of its content. However, if the copyright holder is a party unaffiliated from the website's publisher, that copyright should also be acknowledged.
If you have uploaded other files, consider verifying that you have specified sources for those files as well. You can find a list of files you have created in your upload log. Unsourced and untagged images may be deleted one week after they have been tagged per Wikipedia's criteria for speedy deletion, F4. If the image is copyrighted and non-free, the image will be deleted 48 hours after 11:44, 11 May 2011 (UTC) per speedy deletion criterion F7. If the file is already gone, you can still make a request for undeletion and ask for a chance to fix the problem. You may wish to read the Wikipedia's image use policy. If you have any questions or are in need of assistance please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. Magog the Ogre (talk) 11:44, 11 May 2011 (UTC)
The Deputy
- Thanks for your reply. My concern was not that Jayjg indicated he would rewrite and did not do so, but that he had agreed to allow more of the disputed section in the article rather than a dismissive sentence or two, but when editors began to delete the entire section based on frivolous reasons, he supported it. It appears now that we have, or are in the process of reaching a resolution. The section is now in the article, reduced substantially to account of Jayjg's concers about undue weight. Mamalujo (talk) 18:40, 27 May 2011 (UTC)
Carla Rushing page deletion
Any further discussion of Sarah Palin will result in a warning, and then a temporary block. Thank you!Hmmm, that might be just a tad excessive. We don't want to suppress all discussion, because that's when the pressure has nowhere to go, and people will go and meatball:ExpandScope.
Since scope is already expanded to international media, forcing scope to expand further might be a bit of a Bad Idea (tm). I recommend Not Going There.
If we're really intent on keeping discussions off of WP, we can always create a wikinews article, and link to the "discuss this article" page.
However, at the moment, people seem to be keeping it down to a dull roar anyway.
--Kim Bruning (talk) 22:44, 6 June 2011 (UTC)
- I think you caught my side point, but I'd like to stress the part I'm trying to tell you to watch out for!
- Long term empirical experience shows that attempts to curtail discussion on wikipedia will not slow down the internet discussion elsewhere (or even on wikipedia). Instead, that's exactly what will feed it more and more steam. So Don't Do That.
- Experience shows that the following approaches work:
- Try to centralize all (spurious) discussion in one place
- keep it as focused on encyclopedic work as possible.
- Treat the new users like new users. They don't know our rules yet. Teach them!
- The foundation would like to see us be more welcoming towards new users. That's a good idea! Let's do that.
- --Kim Bruning (talk) 00:26, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
- And... it went to AN/I (see below) --Kim Bruning (talk) 01:33, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
Edit Notice on Paul RevereYou seem to be asserting some admin right to quench discussion on the talk page by blocking and/or warning with the editnotice that I don't think we have, by policy. IAR doesn't cover stomping on people, no matter how annoying a particular conversation is.
Kelly started a
WP:ANI discussion on this.
Followups probably best on ANI as I am sure others will want to comment. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 01:15, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
- On review - I'm going to blank the edit notice now. If an ANI consensus develops to support restoring it then I'll not object at all, but I think it's novel and enough of a stretch that the default should be "no" unless consensus develops otherwise. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 01:19, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
How does a user find a mentor?
Helen Lucy Burke
Talkback
I did what you asked but the IP reverted it again. PTJoshua (talk) 21:09, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
- You're removing everything I say. Please don't do this. It isn't helpful. --86.45.75.42 (talk) 21:19, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
- I'll talk to them. Sit tight for a second. m.o.p 21:10, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
RE: Deletion of 48gogreen page :ApalejaHello,
Thank you for quick response. I appreciate your reason. but if you do some research you'll find more then 4 or 5 substantial mentions in local or international media - in a newspaper, on a notable website, etc. - to put forward this article.
There is a link on official website of company. http://www.48gogreen.com/static/web
Looking forward for your response. thank you in advance to undelete article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Apaleja (talk • contribs) 08:03, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
Here are some articles from International Press (you can use Google translator-if you use chrome it'll provide option immediately):
http://www.regione.emilia-romagna.it/wcm/cinema/sezioni_primopiano/PrimoPiano/Gadoev.htm
http://domani.arcoiris.tv/girano-un-corto-in-48-ore-e-arrivano-dritti-a-cannes/
http://www.close-up.it/spip.php?article6724
http://www.flashvideo.it/news/9/2578/
http://www.radioemiliaromagna.it/cultura/cinema/videomaker_bolognesi_cannes_corto_ecologico.aspx
Also if YOU HAD READ careful our site you should have see the Press link (those are press links not blogs) with all these web press: http://www.48gogreen.com/static/web
Thank you — Preceding unsigned comment added by Apaleja (talk • contribs) 08:22, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
Final warning On Edit Warring of Efik language disputeIf My Reporting a false article is the reason you want to block me. Then Go ahead and BLOCK me.- I can be Block because I don't care to be part of a web/Encyclopedia of Lies! Although I have contributed anonymously to wikipedia since 2008, I only just signed on a few weeks ago to report an error that I thought was made. But you and your other BIASED administrators have refused to fix this error, instead you're all threatening to block me.
- : According to Wikipedia A false statement/article is removed immediatley it is realized. Yet as am reporting it you all are threatening me for causing disruption.
- You all are saying that I called I called Kwami Slow, Dumb etc. Yet Kwami used the words Ignorance first.
"As for Ukwa, your ignorance is not evidence of anything".
- What is the meaning of IGNORANCE? S/He also said;
"But we cannot have the same article under two names, nor an article on Ibibio-Efik that does not include Ibibio, nor an article on Efik that does not include Efik. A little common sense would be helpful."
- What is meaning of Common sense? Or because Kwami put it very nicely, and mine wasn't? Also I wasn't blanking the Efik page, since I just signed on it takes me a long while to write up an article. According to the statements above, Kwami said I could develop articles on Efik and Ibibio, that is what I was doing when you or your other BIASED administrators returned the articles back to the re-direct.
- : Since wikipedia says a false statement is fixed immediately it is reported, I explained out the mistakes, but Kwami kept insisting that me a native who speaks these languages was wrong and asked for sources. I provided the sources and Kwami Called A brilliant Historian who is a Million times more knowledgable than Kwami on the language;
"utterly ignorant AND not some random idiot who posted a web page".
- Yet you and your other Biased colleges are claiming that am the one attacking Kwami and causing a disruption.
- : Am done with Wikipedia, am going to be taking this issues to the Founder/head by email, once the Ibibio union are involved it might become a legal matter if Wikipedia still continues to portray this misleading information.
I will take this matter to the heads by Email first because they might not be aware of what you all supposed administrators are doing to their image. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ibibiogrl (talk • contribs) 21:41, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
Hi Mops,
Pls read my comments on the ANI page. I think Ibibiogrl means well, she just needs some guidance, and she's not willing to take it from me. — kwami (talk) 22:17, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
- Obviously we would like to have contributors from that part of the world, but Ibibiogrl's record here is so unpromising that I think we need good assurances that something will change in the future. (I would welcome any evidence that Ibibiogrl means well. It is hard to improve the encyclopedia when you have no interest in or respect for its policies. Read her statement above if you are uncertain about that). Mentorship has value only for someone who understands that something has gone wrong and would be willing to work with a mentor. EdJohnston (talk) 22:46, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
- I agree with Ed in this case - I have no grudge against Ibibiogrl, but the editor's attitude, despite multiple pleas for otherwise, remained combative and even insulting at points. If there's a serious expression of guilt and the editor decides they'd like to walk a different path, I'd be happy to help. However, as it is now, I believe the block should stand. m.o.p 22:52, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
- I agree that it would require some indication that she wants help. Just my 2¢ as the person she's most upset with. — kwami (talk) 23:05, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
- For the record, your input is highly appreciated, and very admirable; as the editor in conflict with her, I respect your neutrality and helpfulness. As for Ibibiogrl, we'll see where that goes. Cheers! m.o.p 00:59, 17 June 2011 (UTC)
Can you adopt me i want a new adopter.
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Mr. Pit (2nd nomination)
This isn't personalI belive the AFD on Campaign for "santorum" neologism was closed way to early and am contesting your close.
An editor has asked for a deletion review of Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2011 June 21. Because you closed the deletion discussion for this page, speedily deleted it, or otherwise were interested in the page, you might want to participate in the deletion review. KoshVorlon' Naluboutes Aeria Gloris 12:17, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
James Ball
Thank you for your concern. But I will not be blocked - _I am adding_ wikipedia to adblock. I also feel regret for having donated to the site before, but this will not happen again. Demonuminon (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 23:25, 23 June 2011 (UTC).
Thomas James BallWhy the hell did you delete his page?
Does his suffering mean nothing to you?
Heartless bitch. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.57.206.141 (talk • contribs)
Hey, Master of Puppets, OBVIOUSLY there is a public interested in keeping this article. Restore your deletion. Look at the massive flood of comments regarding your deletion here: http://www.<linkremoved>.com/2011/06/24/the-organized-silencing-of-a-man-publicly-burned-to-death/ and here http://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/i81rw/the_organized_silencing_of_a_man_publicly_burned/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Romerom (talk • contribs) 20:05, 24 June 2011 (UTC)
- Ball HIT A FOUR-YEAR-OLD CHILD, refused to pay child support, called for insurrection, demanded terrorism and violence as a solution, ultimately killed himself (leaving his children without a father) and damaged public property in the process. Even after all that, his incoherent message has mostly been ignored except by the less discriminating people claiming to speak for "men's rights" who haven't bothered to look into the details of his case. (If you really want to damage your cause, adopt a grown man who hits his own four-year-old child and flakes out on his child support as your poster boy.) --Orange Mike | Talk 20:26, 24 June 2011 (UTC) (proud father who has never hit his child in his lifetime)
Hey, "proud father who never hit his child in his lifetime", not everybody is against disciplining their children by spanking. He said his daughter was licking his hand, and he had told her repeatedly to stop. She didn't, and he smacked her. He didn't punch her, or send her to the hospital, or cause any serious injury. Just enough to have his wife baited into calling the police on him by child protective services. As for child support, he paid his child support until the point where he wasn't able to afford it due to an employment issue. Is that such a crazy thing to have happen? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.211.155.1 (talk) 04:28, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
- Again, while I do sympathize with the family and supporters, I am not taking sides, nor do I have any bias in this situation. I am not a feminist, nor am I a misogynist - I am fair and neutral towards all people, whether they be abusive fathers or abused fathers.
- This deletion was enforced solely in keeping with Wikipedia's long-established policies. Mr. Ball's death, while indeed tragic, was not reported throughout the reliable media enough to show his notability.
- I hope this makes sense to all those saddened by Mr. Ball's passing. Cheers, m.o.p 21:04, 24 June 2011 (UTC)
- I understand that you do not think that Mr. Ball's death is something that qualifies as an event and thus deleted said article. I disagree but I do see the merits of your argument. However, you claim to be unbiased in this debate and yet for someone who judges on the letter of the law you break the law and close debate 2.5 days before final judgment is to be rendered. If you have no corner then I ask why make this article a special case that it must be quelled , by your own admission, 2.5 days before any other articles found in similar circumstances are voted upon. I petition you to reinstate and allow the normal course of the discussion continue for the 2.5 days, allow the full opportunity for the pro side to make their case then recluse yourself from the final judgment. This is the only way to ensure transparency so that your claim of neutrality can be believed. CaffOMHW (talk) 03:28, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
- Ahead of things, let me tell you that I appreciate the civility.
- Wikipedia's policies aren't law - they're guidelines. As an administrator, it's my job to apply policy in a way that is completely devoid of bias and benefits the encyclopedia as a whole.
- On a side note, the deletion nomination was closed 1.5 days before the normal time. The page had a whole work week to be saved, rewritten or reworked; however, due to the lack of outside sourcing that carried reliability, there was nothing to keep that wasn't editorialized or unencyclopedic. I would also like to point out that almost every account that voiced their opinion in the 'keep' spectrum had either only edited that page or had edited very little aside from the page. Meanwhile, the deletion argument was put forward by experienced users.
- Though I understand that some people take offense to my early closure, I assure them that one extra day would not have yielded success, and that I took many factors into consideration before closing the discussion.
- Again, thank you for the civility, but I won't be overturning judgment or recreating a deletion discussion at this date. m.o.p 08:17, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
ITNthx for the 2 quick updates of my nom ;)
but also can you see the bolivia one. its got support and very nearly out of the news. we could tack it nearer the border.Lihaas (talk) 22:26, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
Ball closure.
Thank God you are an ambassador for WP, and against censorship, MoP. When Wikipedia fails, and it eventually will, it will largely be because most people don't like to be gamed and would rather not read well cultivated information that is maintained by dishonest brokers who hide behind rules that are never applied in an even-handed manner. The idea that a story is not relevant merely because it is not yet encyclopedic is ridiculous when one sees all the articles which linger on for months or years in the same state. The idea that a story is not relevant because the motivations/justifications of the user are suspect would be grounds for eliminating half the biographical articles in WP. It smacks of an agenda. The appearance of impropriety is as bad as actual impropriety.173.78.20.96 (talk) 04:51, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
- I appreciate the feedback.
- I do my best to maintain an equal, proportionate response in all dealings on Wikipedia; I don't defend things I like, or attack things I dislike, just for the reason of screwing with people. That strikes me as childish. Instead, the most I can do is try to help others understand Wikipedia policies, which are generally mind-bending and hard to grasp (for example, most people ask, "What's the reasoning a war hero isn't considered notable when Donkey Kong is?").
- Maybe one day the policies will change. I mean, most of these were written five, six year ago - the world's changing, and I expect they will with time. But, for now, the guidelines handle what comes in.
- Again, thanks for the input. I appreciate not being personally attacked - it makes it easier to reply. Cheers, m.o.p 05:08, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Natami (2nd nomination)
- The close was thoroughly thought-out, so there's not much ground for me to explore that I haven't already. If you're set on going to DRV, there's nothing I can say which will change your mind, and it's your right to ask for a review. However, current consensus sits at delete (unless the 'keep' side is hiding an ace-in-the-hole reliable source or something). Cheers, m.o.p 04:55, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- So, what about the reliable sources we already brought up in the AfD such as this interview in Amiga Future or this news article from nr2.ru? We've already established that Amiga Future isn't sponsored by a hardware company as one !voter there falsely claimed. On a related note, did you discount the !votes from individuals making misleading statements or those claiming there were "no independent reliable sources"? (I could tell you how that !voter happened to show up there, but he isn't going to like it.) I could also link to forum posts by another delete !voter who showed up there who was very much into a "delete at any cost" mode because he doesn't like "amiga clones". --Tothwolf (talk) 05:11, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- Those sources were there before the previous close, and I, like the previous administrator, do not think they're strong enough.
- I've already covered what kind of rationale was discounted and what wasn't.
- As for your last statement about other editors - I'm not quite sure what your point is, but I don't think it's relevant. As I said, I've discounted any rationale that does not apply policy.
- Cheers, m.o.p 05:33, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- Uh, no...nr2.ru was only brought up in the second AfD. Strong enough is also an argument to be made in a !vote, not a closing statement. --Tothwolf (talk) 05:56, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- My apologies, the Russian source was indeed added after the first AfD. Still too shaky for a stand-alone article, though. Cheers, m.o.p 13:42, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- To follow up on my earlier comment, while I don't really want to get into an "X did this because of Y" sort of thing with regards to this AfD, there were a number of delete !voters who showed up there for personal reasons/vendettas/bias and/or who made false statements about sources. Despite the template at the top of the AfD, the second AfD also didn't suffer from the forum canvassing that the first did. One of the delete !voters actually came by way of the forum and first AfD and was trolling because of his personal dislike of Amiga clones. --Tothwolf (talk) 15:33, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
If they have valid, policy-based rationale, their personal motivation doesn't matter, solely for the reason that an encyclopedia based on liking or disliking things would crumble instantly. I'm sure some of the deletion crew could just-as-easily blame keep voters for being enthusiasts and fans of Natami - but that's not important. As a result, making allegations of personal bias is unnecessary. The help is appreciated, but there's nothing I can do with the information. m.o.p 15:39, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- It matters when someone makes false statements and tries to hide what they are doing behind policy. As for keeps, quite a number appear to be from well established editors who don't appear to be all that interested in Amiga topics. As for myself, I wasn't even aware of NatAmi until the first AfD and didn't even !vote in the first AfD since I thought it was pretty obvious it was headed for a no-consensus close. --Tothwolf (talk) 15:58, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- Again, if their rationale is grounded in policy, their motivation does not matter, simply because it's impossible to discern someone's intent through text, and because the second someone accuses another of favoritism/malicious intent the entire argument turns into a bunch of people shouting, "You're lying." That's why there's nothing I can do with your information in this case. Cheers, m.o.p 16:02, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- Apologies to you, M.O.P., for addressing another editor on your talk page, but I just wanted to jump in this conversation. Tothwolf, with no prejudice against you at all I strongly suggest you take this in perspective. There have been two AFDs and an ANI report over this article. The way you treated me on my talk page threatening DRV because I was a new administrator was, as I feel it, borderline harassing. That you canvassed two other administrators to talk to me was also a below the belt move. In good faith, I relisted the debate and it has closed again as delete. I strongly suggest taking the advice at WP:DGAF into account here and let the issue go. I don't think there will be a problem recreating this article, even pulling the old content back from the deletion log, when the subject has better sources in a broader community. I hold no ill feeling toward you, this is purely honest advice.--v/r - TP 16:46, 27 June 2011 (UTC)]
- TParis, while you are correct in that this talk page is not the place for this, because you brought this up here and you seem to value honest feedback, I'll address this here.
In no way did I ever threaten you with DRV, let alone because you were a new administrator (discussion in question). I did however upon noticing that you had passed RFA only days earlier decide it best not to press you further in public and instead sent you this short email: "Sigh. I just noticed you just finished your RFA. The Natami AfD was a bad AfD to pick to close right out of the gate. It is likely to end up at DRV and given the magazine I mentioned, overturned. I really wish you would reconsider your close. You might have noticed I didn't even !vote in the AfD itself, however I did point out a number of things and took a couple of people to task for making false or misleading statements." That is the only email I sent you about the matter and not once did I ever threaten you with DRV. Please get your facts correct before making statements such as this because such mistakes can have a negative effect on others.
After you replied expressing your disagreement over the sources (and implied that I might be biased because I sometimes contribute to computing-related articles) I asked a number of other administrators (way more than two, actually) what they thought of the AfD's close because I wanted unbiased feedback to see if I was somehow totally off-track before I initiated a DRV. The feedback I got was fairly unanimous in that the close was problematic. Before I had a chance to draft a DRV however, you reverted your own close and relisted the AfD from scratch with a new listing. In no way did I ever "canvass" anyone to "talk to you" and if others did contact you directly, they did so at their own discretion and for their own reasons.
There indeed have been two AfDs, the first of which you closed (although one could also argue that the second was merely a relist of the first). The AN/I "discussion" you also mentioned wasn't really over this article or the first AfD, it was an attempt by someone to game AN/I when they were unable to bully me on their talk page. Please be more careful making these sort of blanket statements in the future because as I mentioned above such statements can cause problems for others. --Tothwolf (talk) 17:38, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- You're email was exactly like your reply here. You like to make threats without actually making them: "such statements can cause problems". There is very little way your email cannot be interpreted as anything other than a threat of DRV because I am a new administrator. This is all I'll say on M.O.P.'s talk page as I came here to offer honest advice and you don't seem interested in it. If you'd like to discuss further with me, you know where to find my talk page.--v/r - TP 17:51, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- TParis, in no way did I ever make an implied threat. While I may be a little blunt and abrasive at times (or maybe I'm just an assume good faith in that you simply misremembered the facts I outlined above when you made this statement here. It is easy to forget a few details here or there and not everyone maintains detailed notes for this sort of stuff (I do, for a number of reasons, although I didn't always).
As far as honest advice goes, this is a two-way street and I gave you my opinion as well. If you choose to ignore and discount it, so be it, but I'd suggest you be much more careful in the future and get your facts correct before you make the sort of statement you made above. Such statements can and do cause problems for other editors. Who knows, it may just be that you've not been around long enough yet to have witnessed people blocked or punished in some way because someone else didn't have their facts together. (If you do decide you want to continue this discussion, perhaps we should take this elsewhere.) --Tothwolf (talk) 18:14, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
]
Heaton Park Hebrew Congregation (2nd nomination)
Natami
Thought you might want to know
- (talk page stalker) That's just the same little ideological website which has been pushing for the "Martyrdom of St. Thomas Ball" attention since day one; no actual new coverage. --Orange Mike | Talk 14:34, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
- I guess I should also mention that the way I found it, was that someone tried submitting it to Fark.com last night. The admins did not greenlight it, so that particular submission/thread did not go to the main Fark page, appearing only to those with Totalfark accounts. The submission said something like "Wikipedia deletes burning man" (I'm not at a computer with TF access so I might not have that exactly right). It might, theoretically, based on the submission, be considered some sort of off-site canvassing (it was submitted with the asinine tag). For what its worth, the thread went uncommented, so I don't think that particular attempt garnered any support. I just wanted to drop a line in case that this was just the first drop of a large storm. If I see anything else, I'll drop a line here. Umbralcorax (talk) 15:58, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
Wiki ad
4chan raid
Thomas James Bell, new information
- (reliable sources. --Orange Mike | Talk 13:33, 30 June 2011 (UTC)]
Happy Birthday
![](//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3d/Nuvola_apps_cookie.svg/50px-Nuvola_apps_cookie.svg.png)
Just a happy Birthday message to you, Master of Puppets, from the Wikipedia Birthday Committee! Have a great day!
Monterey Bay (talk) 02:00, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
User:BillyMoses
Natami
AFD
- Your input is appreciated, though there's nothing I can do with it but take a note. If you'd like, you can weigh in at the next AfD(s), when/if they arise. Cheers, m.o.p 19:42, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
Dr Myko San – Health from Mushrooms
- I'd be happy to help! However, I'm currently away from a computer (typing this on my phone), so I'll have to check in on the 11th of July. Does that sound okay? m.o.p 15:40, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
- wp:NODEADLINE :-) LeadSongDog come howl! 15:48, 7 July 2011 (UTC)]
From a former Wikipedian
-71.234.90.0 (talk) 04:50, 8 July 2011 (UTC)
- Hey, thanks so much! I'm not sure who you are, but I really appreciate the sentiment. Hope all is well! m.o.p 20:49, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
Deletion review for Thomas James Ball
DRV comment
DRV
Could you please overturn the deletion of these files per File:Signature of Amitabh Bachchan.svg and File:Signature of Zakir Hussain.svg:
- File:Signature of Vishwanathan Anand.svg
- File:Signature of Vijay Mallya.svg
- File:Signature of Venkaiah Naidu.svg
- File:Signature of Sudeep Bandhopadhyay.svg
- File:Signature of Sonia Gandhi.svg
- File:Signature of Somnath Chatterjee.svg
- File:Signature of Ratan Tata.svg
- File:Signature of Kumar Mangalam Birla.svg
- File:Signature of Rajeev Shukla.svg
- File:Signature of Raj Babbar.svg
- File:Signature of Rahul Gandhi.svg
- File:Signature of Priyanka Vadra.svg
- File:Signature of P. T. Usha.svg
- File:Signature of Narendra Modi.svg
- File:Signature of Nandan Nilekani.svg
- File:Signature of Manish Tewari.svg
- File:Signature of Leander Paes.svg
- File:Signature of Lata Mangeshkar.svg
- File:Signature of Kumar Mangalam Birla.svg
- File:Signature of Karia Munda.svg
- File:Signature of Kapil Sibal.svg
- File:Signature of Kamal Nath.svg
- File:Signature of K. Kamraj.svg
- File:Signature of Jaya Bachchan.svg
- File:Signature of Gautam Gambhir.svg
- File:Signature of Brinda Karat.svg
- File:Signature of Bharatsinh Solanki.svg
- File:Signature of Bhairon Singh Shekhawat.svg
- File:Signature of B. K. Birla.svg
- File:Signature of Azim Premji.svg
- File:Signature of Arun Jaitely.svg
- File:Signature of Aishwarya Rai Bachchan.svg
- File:Signature of Abhishek Manu Singhvi.svg
- File:Signature of Abhishek Bachchan.svg
- File:Signature of Sting.svg
- File:Signature of Br. L. D. Lobo.svg
- File:Signature of VJ Rannvijay Singh Singha.svg
Diligent07Appears to be less than new. See User talk:Raoulduke25 where he states that this is a deliberate series of edits.
- Can you please help defend our collective effort of including the obscene middle-finger incident in the Cheney Mason article? It should be maintained in the article for public interest, etc. Please see the Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard#Cheney Mason discussion page and include your thoughts in favor of having the content remain in the interests of the public, etc
[8], [9] and even imputation that an editor has a connection with the person [10]. He has been on since April, and started off as being experienced on WP IMHO. Kindly keep an eye out please. Especially for any sign of a real "collective effort"? Such as [11]? Cheers. Collect (talk) 11:36, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
A cookie for you!
Keep up the good work defending the "Wiki" against genre warriors. Thanks for the help! talk) 17:31, 13 July 2011 (UTC)]
Hello. You have a new message at Lionelt's talk page.
Semi protection
OK, this thing with the militant atheism page is impossibleThese guys are incredible... I could dig up diffs to show you how they revert and wikilawyer even the SMALLEST attempt to move the article closer to NPOV. But that would take a long time for you to read. How about I show you this instead:
These guys are utterly without scruples. Who in their right mind would remove the NPOV dispute tag when heated arguments have been raging for weeks and NO moves whatsoever have been made to fix the article? Oh right, that would be someone in their right mind who is running a propaganda platform.
Anyway... I wanted to ask your advice on what to do. These guys are impossible to work with. Most of the other editors have given up and refuse to put this page on their watchlist. So what to do then? Request formal mediation? Articles for deletion? Something else?
Me and the other editors would like to see the page replaced with a disambiguation page... since literally ALL the content has already been covered (better) in Criticism of atheism, State atheism and New Atheism.
Obhave (talk) 13:21, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
- Hello User:Master of Puppets. I noticed this conversation and thought I might add that an NPOV policy. Obhave (talk) 13:11, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
- One more thing, m.o.p... my opponents are currently twisting your words to make it look as if you were scolding user:Mann_jess all along. Obhave (talk) 14:42, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
]
User:Jasper Deng page protection
- No worries! m.o.p 19:35, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
Is there a procedure for brutal uncollaborated editing with a destructive intent?I noticed that you recently had problems with proposed brutal editing by Peter S Strempel. Although he has been more sensible on your project in the end (possibly because of your administrator status?) he has not been so with regard to the astrology project pages to which he made a similar 'razor-promise'. Could you please see this Afd request which is one of three he made for major 'history of astrology' articles within the last hour, with a promise on another important page that any comment which is not refrences within 7 days will be removed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Babylonian_astrology
Is there anything that can be done about this officially to stop him wreaking havoc with content whilst he knows that the small group of editors providing content on these pages are already stretched to the limit trying to keep up with what needs to be done? I don't understand what drives some people to want to edit WP like this, but I think it is entriely the result of his ego-stress that when he proposed an edit for a passage, no one favoured it. Hope you can help or advise Zac Δ talk 01:15, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks! assume good faith; I believe that Peter is simply trying to help improve Wikipedia. While his methods may be lacking in some areas, he has displayed a pretty decent grasp on the policies he's trying to enforce.
- However, I agree that he shouldn't be making any changes if they're not discussed with the community first. Do you mind pulling up a few diffs of where he went against consensus? I'll approach him with your concern then. Thanks, m.o.p 03:57, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
- Actually there hasn't been any significant content dispute with Peter. He proposed a change to a section edit which wasn't a very good proposition and a few editors commented but without rancur, and I added a new section post immediately afterwards to point out the proiposed change would contradict with how the definition was given correctly at a later point in the article, outlining how I understood WP policy expected the main astrology article to pull its own content together, along with its summarised content from its daughter pages. Peter never responded to this but other editors started working in that direction immediately. Then, without further discussion or comment, Peter came back four days later to announce an intention to take his 'word razor' to all unreferenced assertions on the main astrology page, its sub-pages, and the portal page itself, to ensure his perceived disagreement was not circumvented in pages he viewed as content forks (I'm still not sure what he means by that). My response to that can be seen - a perfectly reasonable request for him to do what he felt was most productive, but consider that citation-tagging was the way to go. I also placed comments on his talk-page, which you can read if you are interested. That he erupted into a frenzy of AfD requests last night says something, I think, about his unwillingness to discuss and engage in other views. Most of his posts appear as new section declarations that don't appear to have considered the responses other editors give him.
- I've summarised this in the ANI request Dougweller started. The deletion requests were a step too far IMO, and I'm concerned that Peter would spring to such drastic measures in reaction to what he perceives to be me not allowing him to do what he wants to do. I'll be away for a few days so I'm tying up my WP activity now. That underlines my concern that he intends to take such drastic action with only one week's notice of intent. Thanks for looking into this. It would be good if something could be proposed to stop huge problems before they occur. 10:35, 22 July 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zachariel (talk • contribs
)
- One last request. I have just noticed that a related complaint, which is quite serious but has been sidetracked (deliberatly IMO) by Peter's suggestions that I have prevented him from doing what he wants, has been collapsed as "going nowehere" by an unsympathetic editor.
- "Its ben here several days and no admin has even sniffed at a block or ban - clearly you're not going to get admin action. So this should got to WP:DR or WP:RFCU if you want to take it further. I've boldly collapsed this, though I won't be surprised if someone uncollapses it"
- If you can find the time could you at least take a look at that related problem, and consider uncollapsing it, because the issues are serious and have gone beyond the point where Dispute resolution are appropriate. I will be away and have nothing more to add, but the problems identified still remain. Zac Δ talk 10:58, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
What to do?
- I've started a threat at ANI. Those AfDs are purely pointy and if no one objects I'll close them. talk) 06:11, 22 July 2011 (UTC)]
- Replied there. m.o.p 08:20, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
Talk Page on Militant Atheism - Introduction Section
- The update is appreciated, thanks very much. I've been dealing with life for the past two weeks, but I'll be back to close that discussion tonight or tomorrow. Thanks again, m.o.p 22:03, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
- Just bringing this up again, given the current state of this section. I believe the discussion will be archived automatically if not closed. I'm sorry if I sound pushy with you having a lot on your plate of late. If you would prefer, I could alert User:Fastily instead. Turnsalso (talk) 16:55, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
ITN
- I knew that tab I closed had unfinished business on it... thanks. 2008 University of Central Arkansas shootings is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.
The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2008 University of Central Arkansas shootings(2nd nomination) until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on good quality evidence, and our policies and guidelines.
Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article.
talk 14:00, 1 September 2011 (UTC)]
Hey
- Done! Both your userpage and the transcluded page are protected. Cheers, « ₣M₣ » 04:09, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Restored. m.o.p 05:21, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
]
User talk:Joshua the Independent
- My mistake - my block script auto-filled the edit summary. The block was issued due to the user's newfound will to disrupt Wikipedia intentionally. Their previous contributions are welcome, but this behaviour necessitates administrative action. m.o.p 21:52, 13 September 2011 (UTC)
Say hi to your imaginary girlfriend for me
- Well, I do love getting hate mail. Thanks for the laugh! Cheers, m.o.p 05:17, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
...further to the above lovely note, I weighed in on Calabe's talk page - there appears to be more confusion here than at first glance. bou·le·var·dier (talk) 05:19, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
Sorry to drop by again, but Silentsizzlingsausage (talk · contribs) would appear to be a duck. bou·le·var·dier (talk) 05:31, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
- No, it's not an issue! Thanks for the note, blocked. Cheers, WP:SPI. Thanks again, m.o.p 06:13, 14 September 2011 (UTC)]
I have to admit ...
- See the above section. The link is apparently a very subtle spam link that Calabe is removing, and socks are springing up to revert him. Swarm u / t 10:20, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
Moderation
- Alright, I'll make my way back. Thanks for letting me know! m.o.p 05:18, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
User:12.139.96.228
- To be honest, this case is perplexing. Half of this user's edits are constructive (mostly sourced), the other half aren't sourced - and the user won't reply to anybody. I'm also too busy to go through every edit and confirm whether or not it's good. I forgot about this for a while - I'll think about it tonight and figure something out for tomorrow. Thanks for reminding me! m.o.p 05:18, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
Whoops
- Whoops! Must not have been looking when I ran my block script. Thanks for letting me know, I've reblocked them for a far shorter (technically, an infinitely shorter) time. Cheers, m.o.p 22:58, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
Ashleyleggat404
- You're fully right in that the blanking policy covers indefinite blocks. I've removed the user's talk page rights as a result. Thanks again! m.o.p 00:28, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkback
Moderation
- If you look into this please consider whether Anupam's actions on the talk page and the entry itself are violations of WP:OWN. He's been driving off those he disagrees with by bludgening them to death with argument and heavily policing the entry claiming that there is a consensus written in stone despite many dissenting voices. Others have taken to simply calling him "the article's owner." I have had enough of this behavior personally and left him a message about it on his talk page. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:52, 20 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Dear User:Master of Puppets, the above user has misrepresented the occurrences at the article. I started another Introduction discussion at the article's talk page but User:Griswaldo has chosen to edit war over a second NPOV tag, despite the fact that one already exists in the article. He has done so despite the fact that the Introduction is being discussed in a peaceful manner at the talk page, in violation of your injunction: "We've only got consensus on this proposed versions (and loose consensus at that) - please do not attempt to subvert said consensus by making undiscussed changes." I have posted a message on his talk page about this behaviour. Nevertheless, I also do not wish to argue with the user personally and would prefer if you could go back to moderating the discussion between the two parties at the talk page. Thanks for taking the time to read this message. With regards, AnupamTalk 20:58, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- His "injunction?" Adding a neutrality tag to a specific sentence which an editor disputes the neutrality of is hardly "subverting the consensus by making undiscussed changes." Please stop wikilawyering to get your way. There is a growing consensus against your position regarding this article in general as well, despite your aggressive policing of the entry and the talk page. See ]
- I just thought that I would mention that User:Griswaldo, after seeing this message, just now decided to comment in the discussion rather than edit war against consensus further. Thanks for taking the time to read this message. With regards, AnupamTalk 21:51, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- "Edit war against consensus further?" My comment there has nothing to do with your message here. I've made three total edits to this entry ever. One was a copy edit in June, another was reverting an IP vandal, and the third was the revert of your Ownership edit. Please do not insinuate that I'm a edit warrior on this page. It is disingenuous.Griswaldo (talk) 22:08, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Thank you all for approaching me with your concerns.
- Obviously, I do not support Anupam - this is because I'm remaining a neutral third party, and, therefore, can't take sides. However, Griswaldo: please keep in mind that I did ask for all discussion to take place on the talk page. Why not just add your complaints to the talk page? It would have been much easier to discuss.
- I do agree that adding a NPOV tag, while slightly redundant, isn't horrible, but your intent seems to have been to stir discussion on that particular section, discussion that would be much more appropriate on the talk page.
- As for your and Snalwibma's concerns of Anupam trying to 'own' the article, I'm curious as to what you two mean; what 'delusions'?
- Also, Griswaldo, I don't think Anupam meant to insinuate you are an edit warrior (though this is just my take) - rather, they wanted to add the note that you've weighed in on discussion. m.o.p 22:10, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- your intent seems to have been to stir discussion on that particular section - No that's incorrect. I didn't add this tag, I simply reverted Anupam's attempt to own the page when he removed it. I agreed with JimWae's addition of the tag and found Anupam's removal to be unwarranted and a display of ownership.Griswaldo (talk) 22:16, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Note that, for all intents and purposes, reverting somebody is adding whatever is included in your edit, regardless of who put it there first. You revert a removal, you're agreeing with the edition you're reverting to - simple.
- And, if you agreed with JimWae, then we go back to what I was saying earlier - say so on the talk page. Two of you agree? Great! That's closer to consensus. But it means nothing if you express your support by reverting removals.
- Again, as I've asked multiple times, please stop saying that Anupam is owning anything without giving me evidence of it first. m.o.p 22:22, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Dear User:Master of Puppets, thank you for your reply to all of us. The reason User:Snalwibma stated that I was attempting to "own" the article was because I reverted an undiscussed removal from the article, which not only myself, but two other users objected to. In fact, two anonymous IP Addresses also reverted User:Snalwibma. I was open to compromise on the issue and stated that I would accept User:Turnsalso's compromise on the issue. I kindly request you to look at that discussion yourself and get an honest reading of it. Also, the only reason I removed the second NPOV tag was because there was already one present, which I did not remove. I only reverted the addition of a second NPOV tag once and even explained myself on the talk page. When I went to the talk page, I found rude accusations and an anti-collaborative spirit, despite the fact that I have been nothing but polite. I hope this helps. With regards, AnupamTalk 22:25, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry - I know I should not rise to the bait, but I have to object to the comment "The reason User:Snalwibma stated that I was attempting to 'own' the article was because I reverted an undiscussed removal ..." How dare Anupam presume to know what is in my mind! The reason I describe Anupam's attitude to the article as one of ownership is because that is how s/he behaves - "policing" every edit, pronouncing on whether s/he "accepts" or "rejects" it, peremptorily reverting anything s/he does not like, without discussion, presuming to know others' motives, and judging them as fit/unfit to contribute to the article. This has been going on for weeks, if not months. It is impossible to discuss the content of the article, let alone improve the text, because everything is filtered through the approval/disapproval of the article's self-appointed guardian, Anupam. tendentious or disruptive when they bring up certain issues, even when they are clearly in the majority. That is not collaborative. I stopped editing the article heavily because of those issues. I don't have any delusions that my opinion is worth more than anyone else's here, but I would think that the large number of established, experienced editors who are all saying there's a problem, would indicate something. — Jess· Δ♥ 19:45, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
Please reconsider your full protection of Militant atheist
- In case you didn't notice, I asked that people think twice about pointing fingers at each other. If you'd like to start a sockpuppetry investigation, let me know, and we can take that avenue - however, don't accuse other editors of ownership without substance. If you think Anupam is trying to own things, give me something. Diffs, edits, anything. I'll check it out for you, but right now, baseless accusations are not what I'm looking for.
- Also, notice that I protected the article with your edit being the last one. How is that validating the very person you've been reverting?
- The protection will stay until consensus is reached. m.o.p 22:19, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Because protection is what he wants quite clearly. He's stalling conversation and shouting down people on the talk page, where, if you have a look, you'll see he's clearly in the minority. Because of your "injunction" as he calls it, he also claims that no matter how many people agree with a certain change it is illegitimate. I'll be happy to gather some diffs, but my first message to you above was to please look into the situation carefully before acting on it. Did you do that and come to the conclusion that I'm wrong or did you not head that request? Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:29, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Yes, I did heed your request. I don't see any ownership behaviour from Anupam, though, being involved in multiple disputes, I didn't have the time to read every last word on the page, so you're free to provide evidence. However, from what I can see, Anupam's last proposal was supported by the majority - not to count (and I don't mean to imply that I decide where consensus lies by looking at pure numbers), but from looking at pure supports versus opposes, eight people (nine including Anupam) support while four oppose. How does that make Anupam's views a minority? m.o.p 22:37, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- It depends on what view you are talking about. The current RFC on the introduction is something that most people don't even want to engage because most people think this very entry should be split up and integrated into other entries. I reluctantly engaged the RfC just now myself. The last time the more serious question about the entry was asked, several of the new commentators were not around, and there was "no consensus" found because the opposing side was chalk full of SPAs and editors with a view that is outright hostile to atheism (which is a legitimate view to hold, but it is a minority view). Let me find you some diffs.Griswaldo (talk) 22:43, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- User:Griswaldo, that is exactly the issue: you do not want to collaborate with other users on the talk page, which is why you were reluctant to participate in the current RfC. Moreover, there were several SPA's on the side of the opposition as well, including WP:NPOV. In addition, the split was again recently discussed and the specific case to do so was refuted by several editors. As such, there was no consensus for it. I hope this helps. With regards, AnupamTalk 22:52, 20 September 2011 (UTC)]
- No. You are trying to write an article that violates WP:SYNTH because it conflates New Atheism with oppressive communist regimes and their histories of violence. That's hardly NPOV. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:59, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
Hi m.o.p., as someone who occasionally looks at that page (and then washes my hands), I just want to compliment you as having done the right thing in full protecting. By way of unsolicited advice to the involved editors, the best thing they could do is to allow The Wrong Version to sit there a good long time, and devote their energy to other things. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:54, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
]
Yes, please reconsider your full protection of
WP:RS—deserve protection against misinformed reverts. Thanks Geremia (talk) 16:12, 22 September 2011 (UTC)]
Diffs of
- I'm not really sure where the ownership is here; nowhere in our policies is it stated that a user can't promote their RFC on the subject talk page. If it's ongoing and they'd like to move it to the forefront, what's wrong with that? More so, some of your summaries seem inaccurate - in that last diff, you state that Anupam is removing images, yet I only see Anupam adding an image (the peace dove that's at the top of the page). Also, you use repeating examples. m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Well clearly the last diff was wrong. Thanks for the vote of confidence. There are no repeat examples nor inaccurate summaries, just a mistaken copy paste of the second to last diff to the last position as well. I have fixed it. Cheers.
- Using "consensus claims from one RfC to reject changes made to article content
- Same as above. Using the "consensus" bludgeon to get his way. Please note that clearly we ought to edit by consensus, but this consensus is highly disputed, and IMO not there in the first place. The real problem is the way in which Anupam decides to use it like a trump card to remove changes he doesn't like. Ask yourself if all changes post "consensus" have been removed or just the ones Anupam decided he wanted removed.
Master of Puppets do you need more diffs or is this enough?Griswaldo (talk) 23:31, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Well I need more diffs because your "evidence" so far looks like a desperate attempt to incriminate an editor who has been very successful in persuading his colleagues to adopt his proposals. Anupam has presented his proposals, argued the merits and persuaded many editors. Anything you want to tell us about why you're having difficulty doing likewise? – Lionel (talk) 06:02, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- I don't see this is as conclusive evidence, either. And, it should be said - if people are editing against established consensus, then people are free to re-evaluate consensus, but edit-warring against it doesn't make much sense. m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- If not ownership then what is this - [28], [29], [30]? He removes two RfCs started by another editor, and revolving around the question that many of us actually find to be the fundamental question to answer regarding the entry. Then he edit wars to keep these RfCs off the page, claiming again to have some sort of authority stemming from your prior actions. If you aren't willing to do something here I'm going to another administrator and I'm going to ask for your initial "consensus," your strong arm administrating, and your lack of action here to be reviewed as well. Thanks.Griswaldo (talk) 17:08, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Anupam has already apologized for reverting those RfC additions, and we've moved past it. He also didn't claim to have administrative authority, but was waiting for my approval. We've cleared this up, it's not an issue. So no, I'm not going to take any action (as I've said here and on ANI). Now, if you'd like to threaten me and tell me that, since I'm not cooperating with your wills, you'll go to another administrator, that's fine - as I've said, you can seek outside opinions - but remember to keep a cool head, because borderline threats are not appreciated. m.o.p 21:49, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- It was not a threat, "borderline" or otherwise. You are conveniently ignoring a growing number of voices who are all saying the same thing - there is an ownership problem here. The deletion issue has not been "cleared up" as far as I'm concerned. Whenever it is mentioned Anupam insists that he did not "unilaterally" delete the RfCs from the page, which is a blatant distortion, since that is exactly what he did. He continues to act as a policeman at the page, and yes he does continue to cite your authority. Did you bother to read the many diffs I posted above in the second two sections? I will quote three random examples from those I provided for you if you want.
- When he first deleted the two RfCs he wrote: "rv - see discussion with reviewing administrator; approval needed to start another RfC while one is already occurring."
- When he deleted a fact tag that JimWae put into the lede: "rv excessive tagging per talk; tag is already extant in header; do not subvert previous consensus but gain consensus for potential additions per administrative notice"
- When he rejected another recent change to the entry: "accepted edits by User:Jkhwiki; rv removal of longstanding referenced content - see discussion on talk page and gain consensus for action per administrative injunction"
- In talk page comments and in edit summaries he consistently does the same thing. He refers to your authority, either directly or indirectly through your "notice" or your "injunction" as he likes to call it. I never said the claimed to have administrative authority, I said that he's using your authority, by way of your comments, such as the closure of the AfD to bully people. Do you deny that he citing your comments, because if you do then I must have fabricated those quotes. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:32, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
If you say "If you don't do A, then I'm going to go and do B", that's a threat. Anyway, that's not the issue - we've already covered all the issues with the RfC reverting, and Anupam won't do it again. Why keep raising hell over it?
We've already covered everything you bring up. And no, I'm not denying anything. I'm just saying this, and it's very simple: I don't think there has been any blatant ownership here. That's my judgment. If you disagree, again, feel free to raise this with another administrator or on ANI. m.o.p 23:12, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Regarding the new RFC, I still think there has not passed yet too much time since the last discussion about splitting the article. As far as I knew, repeating these sorts of debates (like splitting, deleting, renaming) before a larger amount of time has passed (like 6 months) is usually discouraged. And as others have also argued earlier, even if having multiple RFCs is possible, it's not very useful, and the new RFC seems to discourage further discussion about improving the lead introduction. So preventing multiple RFCs (and also a RFC about an issue debated not too long ago) does not look to me like evidence of bad faith intentions. Cody7777777 (talk) 21:37, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Cody, would you mind linking me to the previous RfC on splitting? m.o.p 21:49, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- The previous attempt to split the article can be found here. Cody7777777 (talk) 21:55, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Response
Yes, it does. Thanks, m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Dear User:Master of Puppets, I just noticed that User:Binksternet started another RfC while a current one is occurring. Is this appropriate? I reverted the addition motioning for one until your response is confirmed. If it is acceptable, then I apologize and will revert my edit. I look forward to your response. With regards, AnupamTalk 15:14, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'll form my reply on ANI. m.o.p 17:12, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- When you do please take into account my comment just above, regarding Anupam's edit warring to remove talk page comments (namely these RfCs) posted by others on the talk page. If you still don't think this is WP:OWN then clearly other administrators are needed here.Griswaldo (talk) 17:15, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Dear User:Griswaldo, how is going to a neutral mediator to address the issue owning the article? I acknowledge that the article is in dispute and as a result, I am asking an administrator for advice in this matter, NOT handling things on my own, as you have done by edit warring. Your WP:OWN allegations have not only been dismissed by this administrator, but by several other users, including, User:Lionelt, User:Cody7777777 and User:NYyankees51. Thanks, AnupamTalk 17:27, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- In reply to Griswaldo: reverting the RfCs was a mistake, but we've cleared that up now. As Anupam has stated at ANI, the intent was not to discourage discussion. If you think my judgment is compromised, you're welcome to seek another administrator's input. m.o.p 21:04, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- And as further evidence of WP:OWN, see this. Anupam adds a comment to everything that anyone else says, as if he/she is the owner of the article and everyone else is a subordinate contributor. This particular instance is pretty benign (although it clutters up the talk page with an unnecessary comment that merely says "I agree"), but I do think that Anupam at least needs to learn how to avoid giving the appearance of thinking he/she owns the article, and to desist from chipping in and saying the same thing over and over again, which almost makes meaningful discussion impossible! SNALWIBMA ( talk - contribs ) 17:31, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- While the input is appreciated, as I've said before, making allegations of ownership without hard evidence isn't going to get us anywhere. Anupam is not stopping others from discussing changes or forming consensus, and that's all that matters - refactoring the talk page or commenting on an issue is not against policy, and I'm not going to tell someone to stop editing because it "looks" like they're doing something wrong. As said above, you're welcome to request another administrator's insight if you wish. m.o.p 21:04, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
COIHi
you've helped me out before, with a conflict of interest problem, so having much more experience than me on wikipedia, I thought I would be bold enough to ask again for help.
Similar problem to last, User_talk:Hobbycraft is editing the HOBBYCRAFT article and making changes that aren't citably right. I think the user name suggest and history suggests a conflict of interest case.
Can you please, speak to them addressing this issue.
Thank you very much for your help.
Markcoulter50 (talk) 22:27, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
- I've blocked that user for username violations. Thanks a lot for letting me know! Keep up the great work, m.o.p 23:00, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkbackcausa sui (talk) 18:47, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Hello. You have a new message at causa sui's talk page. causa sui (talk) 20:54, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Problematic editing on militant atheism
- I hope it's not considered defamatory to repeat the final line: "I merely present the diffs above, and let others draw their own conclusions. Is this a duck? Does it quack? You decide.". Unfortunately, the concerned community no longer has that opportunity. What did you decide on their behalf? Does this duck quack, or not? bobrayner (talk) 15:42, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- It's not your wording, it's the very idea of it. Going to what's allegorically a public place and shouting, "Hey, everybody, this man is a criminal!" is one step below blatantly forming a lynch mob. As I've said, I have no problem with your wording or evidence, just your location of choice. Wikipedia is not, unfortunately, a democracy - letting others draw their conclusions and voice their opinions is not how a sockpuppet investigation works.
- So yes, please don't go restoring any of that section. We're not discussing editors, we're discussing the content they produce. Anything else has a sub-board to deal with it (like WP:SPI).
- Hopefully that clears things up! I'll be happy to answer any more questions should you have them. Cheers, m.o.p 15:48, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Hello User:Bobrayner, I noticed the section you created on the militant atheism talk page. If you do feel the way you do about User:Turnsalso and the anonymous IP Addresses, you can take this up with WP:SPI. Thanks, AnupamTalk 15:52, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
Are you kidding my MoP? Above your write: Going to what's allegorically a public place and shouting, "Hey, everybody, this man is a criminal!" is one step below blatantly forming a lynch mob. AND We're not discussing editors, we're discussing the content they produce. Yet you call this edit by Lionelt "good faith," at WQA? MoP, I would not ask you to agree with me or to like me, but can I please ask you not to insult me with these double standards.Griswaldo (talk) 16:18, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
]
- Griswaldo, I mean no offense when I say this, but I'd appreciate it if you stayed out of discussions which didn't involve you. Also, please don't put words in my mouth. Thanks, m.o.p 16:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I have not put words in your mouth. You said that you would assume good faith about Lionel. If you "assume good faith" it means you assume his edits were in "good faith." If you did not intend that meaning I suggest you reconsider what you wrote. Also, if you want me to "stay out of discussion which don't involve me" then I suggest your first order of business should be to do the same thing yourself. You decided to post at WQA, when there was no mention of you or anything you've done in that thread. Once again, I expect people not to practice double standards. So as long as you cannot show me that you will treat me as you ask to be treated yourself, I will not oblige you. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:21, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Please stop bickering. I'm not quite sure what you're trying to accomplish here. I've already explained what I meant when I said assuming good faith, but I'll explain again: I assumed that Lionelt was not hounding or deliberately haranguing you. I did not say, at any point, that his edit content was good faith, and I've told him not to edit like that again. So please stop accusing me of saying things I haven't said.
- Also, I posted in WQA because, as a mediator in this case and as an administrator, it's my duty to weigh in on administrative noticeboards, especially when the case is an ongoing discussion I've been participating in for three months. It is not your duty to weigh in on discussions on my talk page that don't concern you. I hope the distinction is clear here. m.o.p 20:33, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I think you are confused about something. Content is never good faith. "Editing in good faith" and "good faith edits" refers to the intent of the editor always. It has nothing to do with content. My assumption that you also felt the edits were appropriate comes from the fact that you did not say they weren't appropriate and clearly feel that his intentions were good. If you'd like to set the record straight on that issue you still can. I've asked you twice now to discuss the actual edits that are the focal point of the thread. Also, I moved the thread to ANI, per the suggestion of the editor who marked it "resolved."Griswaldo (talk) 20:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- See Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#User:Lionelt_--_following_my_past_edits_to_drum_up_support_against_me. FYI, I copy pasted the entire discussion because both you and Collect were critical of my initial post and I thought it was the right thing to do to preserve that criticism in the record of the conversation. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:43, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- In reply to your first paragraph: I'm going to give up now, as it seems you're misunderstanding most of what I type, but you're the one who stated that the content was not good faith (as you said, not appropriate), and I agreed - I referred to his intent in replying to you, and said that I assumed good faith in his motives, not his replies. I can't really say that in a clearer way, so my apologies if it's hard to understand. Also, as I've already said, I've left a message for Lionelt about his edits, so clearly I do not feel they're appropriate. m.o.p 20:57, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I, too, find these double standards vexing.
- Which diff is defamatory?
- I had hitherto thought that people on the article talkpage might like to be aware of potential problems with votestacking on the article talkpage (and 3rr evasion, of course). Would it be permitted to add a link to that list of diffs when it's in a different place, or would you consider that defamatory too? bobrayner (talk) 16:23, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- As I said, the information is not defamatory, but the way it's presented is - we have specific processes available to pursue should one feel there are sockpuppets about. However, calling someone out with the intent of informing the community is overstepping your authority and damaging to the accused's character. Also, there's no way a community discussion about whether or not one editor is a sockpuppet can end in anything other than a sockpuppet investigation anyway.
- So, in closing, please don't bring issues like this to the talk page. If you're concerned about votestacking, take it to the appropriate venue - if your concerns are validated, we'll take measures against said puppets. Cheers, m.o.p 16:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I am very disappointed that it's no longer permissible to raise problems with article-editing on the article talkpage. Previous concerns about sockpuppetry were simply ignored; the difference this time is that it's backed by lots of diffs.
- I'm fairly confident that the people concerned have sufficient technical nous to make checkuser draw a blank. And, let's be entirely honest, within minutes of me creating an SPI, an admin of the right persuasion will be getting an email suggesting that an SPI needs their attention. And SPI does not see offsite coordination by a facebook group &c. Finally, any null result at SPI will be used at the article in much the same way as previous administrative decisions have been. So, I do not believe that an SPI will improve either the article, or the encyclopædia as a whole. bobrayner (talk) 17:08, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- If you don't think the pre-existing methods set in place for situations like this are sufficient, you can always raise that concern at the village pump or suggest a policy revision - however, SPI is the venue for these requests, and the only venue. The talk page can not substitute. m.o.p 17:10, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
76.228.226.122Thank you for blocking the anonymous user, who is being counterproductive and rude. (although I think the block should have been one week, but I guess ok at least)
Can you also please try to hide the edit summaries of these edits if possible?
This and
this
Thanks and regards, talk 05:04, 26 September 2011 (UTC)]
- I'll extend the block if this behaviour continues after the block period is over.
- As for the edit summaries, those don't warrant hiding - I apologize for their content, but they don't meet the criteria of what I should remove. It's best just to ignore them for now. Cheers, m.o.p 05:13, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
- Okay, good to know, if I did nothing wrong, no permanent block will be enforced. The IP does not volunteer on WP as an admin and so the disproportionately out of line comments and threats of his should be ignored. --talk 05:19, 26 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Sounds good. We only hide extremely offensive revisions; milder ones stay in the edit history. Thanks again for bringing this to our attention! Cheers, m.o.p 05:31, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
Email
Jasper Deng (talk) 05:29, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
- Reading. talk) 06:00, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Bad Girls Club
- I've blocked Junebea for 2 days for disregarding warnings. m.o.p 20:30, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks for helping :) Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 21:06, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkback
- And again.Griswaldo (talk) 04:24, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
- And again ... but maybe the last. You can settle this question once and for all. See the talk page.Griswaldo (talk) 06:09, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'm sure I'm not alone in wanting to hear your replies to the last responses posed to you at that page. IMO, I don't know why you went down the road you did, but as far as I can tell you're blatantly misrepesenting facts about your own actions when people are brining concerns to you. You might think that since you closed the RfC the matter is settled, but it is not. You're actions have not made my life any more pleasant in the last few days vis-a-vis trying to deal with Anupam's disruption and I think you owe us all answers. So please revisit this thread and deal with the open questions. Thanks.Griswaldo (talk) 02:19, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
- I invite you to stop asking the same question again and again. This would be appreciated. Thanks, m.o.p 02:33, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Block question
- No, I just block obviously bad-faith accounts on sight. Advertising/spam accounts fall under that category. m.o.p 00:37, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Thanks
- Thank you. I've unlocked the article for whatever may come. If I'm needed again, feel free to let me know. Thanks for the kind words again, m.o.p 05:12, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
reminder
- We're still waiting to see if the user understands COI policy (per Ed's question). I'll prod the user and see if they'll answer. talk) 19:20, 30 September 2011 (UTC)]
Nextel logo deleted
- Mmm, good point. What's the link to the logo in question? m.o.p 01:33, 2 October 2011 (UTC)
Support of Sage City SymphonyYou deleted this page before I had a chance to go back in and add the stuff that you wanted to see, including the links within Wikipedia to important composers such as Lou Callabro (who started this orchestra and cites it in his Wikipedia page) and Susan Hurley whose work we premiered (SC is also mentioned in her Wikipedia entry). (Let alone links about the works we have performed.) And we have a web site at www.sagecitysymphony.org, have existed for over 35 yrs and are a significant cultural resource in the Bennington area such that we receive grants from local, statewide and national foundations.
I broke my wrist last weekend and am doing one-handed pecking so it'll take me a few days to get that loaded in. We are going out for a bit now, but I would appreciate your undeleting the page so that I don't have to re-invent the starting part when I go back in tomorrow to add links. Or delete it entirely so that I can start fresh - at this point either would work as long as I can start some serious work on it tomorrow. I am the webmaster by the way, so I do have access to content and more links.
Thank you, Celia Murray — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.228.127.119 (talk) 14:22, 1 October 2011 (UTC)
- It looks like fixed everything up. Best of luck, m.o.p 01:35, 2 October 2011 (UTC)]
Reply on Deterence's talk page
MA
After the beating you took you deserve a cold one--on me! Thanks for being fair and balanced – Lionel (talk) 03:55, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
- Hey, thanks! Glad to help out. :) m.o.p 03:56, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
Deletion of Mau5trap Recordings
--neocharles (talk) 07:33, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Existence does not equal notability - the subject has to be notable to get a Wikipedia page. m.o.p 12:05, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
Questoin re: AIV
- Addendum, actually, I read it very clearly in WP:VANDNOT: "Uploading or using material on Wikipedia in violation of Wikipedia's copyright policies is prohibited, but is not vandalism unless the user does so maliciously or fails to heed warnings." So if a person fails to heed warnings it is vandalism. My mistake here was that I only warned once. --Muhandes (talk) 12:29, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Eh, technically it is vandalism, but the user seems to be trying to improve the Wikipedia - that desire to help is misplaced in this case, as they seem to think that using copyrighted content is actually better. Weird. For most cases, yes, you should report copyvio to AIV - as long as they've been warned sufficiently. m.o.p 12:42, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- OK, he now did it again and the time stamp is after your last warning. Is it vandalism now? --Muhandes (talk) 12:32, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Yeah, if they're outright ignoring warnings. I've blocked for three days. m.o.p 12:40, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
Classmusic
- Oh, I know. But if somebody's lied to my face about using another account - and to other editors working on the article - I'm not about to let them go without a repercussion or two. I'd like Almost-instinct and Voceditnore to look over the article and fix up anything shifty. Also, I'd like Classmusic to respond to my warning, instead of blanking it and ignoring like they have to the above-named editors.
- So, in short, I know that COI doesn't bar editing, but it's enough of a concern that, given the user's recent behaviour, I'll stop them from doing anything until we've figured things out. This isn't too rouge-y, is it? I didn't hear that. Perhaps he is unaware of the sockpuppet investigation findings. Anyhow it seems that DeltaQuad has also blocked the Classmusic account. I left a note on his page about using the unblock template, but re-iterated that he needs to read the COI and Autobiography guidelines and stick to them scrupulously, if he gets unblocked. In the Opera and Classical Music WikiProjects, we get a lot of articles for performers, ensembles, etc. created by their agents and PR people, and often themselves. In my experience, the best I can hope for after one of these tussles is that they'll edit their article according to the guidelines in future. I have yet to find a single one who has ever contributed anything else to Wikipedia. Their only interest in the project is as a PR tool. Having said that, at least it results (after much red-pencilling from other editors) in one new article on a notable subject that we didn't have before and in a small way redresses the pop culture systemic bias here. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 13:40, 5 October 2011 (UTC)]
Danish election
- Never mind, it's been pulled by another admin. All the best, Jenks24 (talk) 11:03, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry about that! I was busy all day and didn't get your message until now. Thanks for letting me know, though! Cheers, m.o.p 19:51, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
3RRHey there! :)
Well WP:CRYSTAL has wined down, however, there's currently a
The Bad Girls Club (season 7). I have notified the two users [32], [33]. The evidence can be found here. They are having an edit-conflict on how the "Duration of cast" should be presented. Since there's no rules regarding anything like that, and it was made up about a year ago, I couldn't warned them to stop their e/c with anything except the 3RR rule. Maybe they need an admin to tell them to stop, so that's why I came to you :) Thanks, Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 01:17, 6 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Temporary page protection requested. Calabe1992 (talk) 01:29, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
- How was this a copy-paste move? It was a recreation of a deleted article. Sasata (talk) 23:46, 10 February 2011 (UTC)
- Which was, to my knowledge, notabilified. Is that a word? m.o.p 01:05, 11 February 2011 (UTC)
:D![](//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/29/Choco_chip_cookie_bitten.jpg/100px-Choco_chip_cookie_bitten.jpg)
![](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/29/Choco_chip_cookie_bitten.jpg/100px-Choco_chip_cookie_bitten.jpg)
CharlieEchoTango has eaten your {{cookie}}! The cookie made them happy and they'd like to give you a great big hug for donating it. Spread the WikiLove by giving out more {{cookie}}s, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend. Thanks again!
Spread the goodness of cookies by adding {{subst:cookie}} to someone's talk page with a friendly message, or eat a cookie with {{subst:munch}}!
Blanking of material at The Deputy
- MOP, how would you feel about one month of full protection for this article? I see that Ekwos has stopped by to remove the section again. The dispute about the KGB connection has been running for almost a year now. Full protection could motivate people to discuss the issue, and perhaps create an RfC. Thanks EdJohnston (talk) 20:32, 11 February 2011 (UTC)
- One month of pending changes is better, I think. I don't like limiting legitimate editors, but this will disallow further warring from disrupting the 'pedia. m.o.p 07:10, 12 February 2011 (UTC)
Deletion of Gabriel Weinberg
- It wasn't my decision to delete the article. We had clear community consensus. Please stop taking thins personally. m.o.p 07:10, 12 February 2011 (UTC)
Edit summariesActually user:Zjarriretues is removing a reliable source [[1]] that mentions his ethnicity and places another that's more suitable to his national standarts. Although the source Zjarri. prefers is also 'rs' he did not disagree in the article's talkpage with my version [[2]].
Unfortunately when a couple of months passed you prefered to make his revert per
wp:ninja, without explaining the reason of this (very) delayed revert.Alexikoua (talk) 17:03, 14 February 2011 (UTC)]
I reverted myself, however, an explanation is needed in the talkpage by the user since he agreed in the past with the version I've presented on Aug..Alexikoua (talk) 17:14, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
Your friend the the IP
sent you an email
- One of your userboxes says you're only 17! I would have sworn you were older than that! ; ) --Kenatipo speak! 23:40, 16 February 2011 (UTC)
Godzilla
- I feel that it doesn't. If you check our crystal ball policy, you'll notice that it says, "It is appropriate to report discussion and arguments about the prospects for success of future proposals and projects or whether some development will occur, if discussion is properly referenced." That policy is meant to stop unsourced conjecture and speculation by editors, so I think we're fine in this case. The Hobbit film project with all its troubles). Here, with Godzilla, the reports are extremely normal. The studio announces its plans for a film, and a director is attached for it (which is not a guarantee). That's what it boils down to, and it's not enough to be more than a news source. Erik (talk | contribs) 16:11, 17 February 2011 (UTC)
- I appreciate that you've explained your position to me (though I did read your points in the AFD thread) but I can't delve into stuff like this. If you're not happy with my close, you're fully welcome to ask another administrator or even open another AFD. m.o.p 16:15, 17 February 2011 (UTC)
- I won't do anything for now. I would just prefer to keep such articles a rarity. Following films for some time, a lot of people tend to create an article about a film the moment it is announced (or the moment something new happens, like a new director). I do like to report discussion (did so at Concrete Island) but it's more a matter of where for me, to ensure topics of enduring notability. I did want to ask, do you think a merge discussion in general would be more beneficial? I feel like an AFD like that foments a keep-or-delete mentality that overrides the in-between solution of reporting discussion under a broader article until we can be near certain a film will exist. Erik (talk | contribs) 16:21, 17 February 2011 (UTC)
- A merge discussion would be great; I could weigh in and such. Feel free to open one up if you'd like to. m.o.p 23:03, 17 February 2011 (UTC)
]
Please respond
userspace
Talkback 16:14, 19 February 2011 (UTC)
Protect my talk page
- Lately, this IP also misused the edit war template on my talk page.Jasper Deng (talk) 00:37, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
Block an IP
E-Mail
nice guyhiii master of puppets,
ok do u know the movie Twilght saga ?
rply me back i want 2 talk 2 u a lot because i like ur pesonalty.BY
talk) 11:58, 28 April 2011 (UTC)]
File source problem with File:MoPuppetarmy.pngThank you for uploading File:MoPuppetarmy.png. I noticed that the file's description page currently doesn't specify who created the content, so the copyright status is unclear. If you did not create this file yourself, you will need to specify the owner of the copyright. If you obtained it from a website, please add a link to the website from which it was taken, together with a brief restatement of that website's terms of use of its content. However, if the copyright holder is a party unaffiliated from the website's publisher, that copyright should also be acknowledged.
If you have uploaded other files, consider verifying that you have specified sources for those files as well. You can find a list of files you have created in your upload log. Unsourced and untagged images may be deleted one week after they have been tagged per Wikipedia's criteria for speedy deletion, F4. If the image is copyrighted and non-free, the image will be deleted 48 hours after 11:44, 11 May 2011 (UTC) per speedy deletion criterion F7. If the file is already gone, you can still make a request for undeletion and ask for a chance to fix the problem. You may wish to read the Wikipedia's image use policy. If you have any questions or are in need of assistance please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. Magog the Ogre (talk) 11:44, 11 May 2011 (UTC)
The Deputy
- Thanks for your reply. My concern was not that Jayjg indicated he would rewrite and did not do so, but that he had agreed to allow more of the disputed section in the article rather than a dismissive sentence or two, but when editors began to delete the entire section based on frivolous reasons, he supported it. It appears now that we have, or are in the process of reaching a resolution. The section is now in the article, reduced substantially to account of Jayjg's concers about undue weight. Mamalujo (talk) 18:40, 27 May 2011 (UTC)
Carla Rushing page deletion
Any further discussion of Sarah Palin will result in a warning, and then a temporary block. Thank you!Hmmm, that might be just a tad excessive. We don't want to suppress all discussion, because that's when the pressure has nowhere to go, and people will go and meatball:ExpandScope.
Since scope is already expanded to international media, forcing scope to expand further might be a bit of a Bad Idea (tm). I recommend Not Going There.
If we're really intent on keeping discussions off of WP, we can always create a wikinews article, and link to the "discuss this article" page.
However, at the moment, people seem to be keeping it down to a dull roar anyway.
--Kim Bruning (talk) 22:44, 6 June 2011 (UTC)
- I think you caught my side point, but I'd like to stress the part I'm trying to tell you to watch out for!
- Long term empirical experience shows that attempts to curtail discussion on wikipedia will not slow down the internet discussion elsewhere (or even on wikipedia). Instead, that's exactly what will feed it more and more steam. So Don't Do That.
- Experience shows that the following approaches work:
- Try to centralize all (spurious) discussion in one place
- keep it as focused on encyclopedic work as possible.
- Treat the new users like new users. They don't know our rules yet. Teach them!
- The foundation would like to see us be more welcoming towards new users. That's a good idea! Let's do that.
- --Kim Bruning (talk) 00:26, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
- And... it went to AN/I (see below) --Kim Bruning (talk) 01:33, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
Edit Notice on Paul RevereYou seem to be asserting some admin right to quench discussion on the talk page by blocking and/or warning with the editnotice that I don't think we have, by policy. IAR doesn't cover stomping on people, no matter how annoying a particular conversation is.
Kelly started a
WP:ANI discussion on this.
Followups probably best on ANI as I am sure others will want to comment. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 01:15, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
- On review - I'm going to blank the edit notice now. If an ANI consensus develops to support restoring it then I'll not object at all, but I think it's novel and enough of a stretch that the default should be "no" unless consensus develops otherwise. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 01:19, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
How does a user find a mentor?
Helen Lucy Burke
Talkback
I did what you asked but the IP reverted it again. PTJoshua (talk) 21:09, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
- You're removing everything I say. Please don't do this. It isn't helpful. --86.45.75.42 (talk) 21:19, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
- I'll talk to them. Sit tight for a second. m.o.p 21:10, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
RE: Deletion of 48gogreen page :ApalejaHello,
Thank you for quick response. I appreciate your reason. but if you do some research you'll find more then 4 or 5 substantial mentions in local or international media - in a newspaper, on a notable website, etc. - to put forward this article.
There is a link on official website of company. http://www.48gogreen.com/static/web
Looking forward for your response. thank you in advance to undelete article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Apaleja (talk • contribs) 08:03, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
Here are some articles from International Press (you can use Google translator-if you use chrome it'll provide option immediately):
http://www.regione.emilia-romagna.it/wcm/cinema/sezioni_primopiano/PrimoPiano/Gadoev.htm
http://domani.arcoiris.tv/girano-un-corto-in-48-ore-e-arrivano-dritti-a-cannes/
http://www.close-up.it/spip.php?article6724
http://www.flashvideo.it/news/9/2578/
http://www.radioemiliaromagna.it/cultura/cinema/videomaker_bolognesi_cannes_corto_ecologico.aspx
Also if YOU HAD READ careful our site you should have see the Press link (those are press links not blogs) with all these web press: http://www.48gogreen.com/static/web
Thank you — Preceding unsigned comment added by Apaleja (talk • contribs) 08:22, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
Final warning On Edit Warring of Efik language disputeIf My Reporting a false article is the reason you want to block me. Then Go ahead and BLOCK me.- I can be Block because I don't care to be part of a web/Encyclopedia of Lies! Although I have contributed anonymously to wikipedia since 2008, I only just signed on a few weeks ago to report an error that I thought was made. But you and your other BIASED administrators have refused to fix this error, instead you're all threatening to block me.
- : According to Wikipedia A false statement/article is removed immediatley it is realized. Yet as am reporting it you all are threatening me for causing disruption.
- You all are saying that I called I called Kwami Slow, Dumb etc. Yet Kwami used the words Ignorance first.
"As for Ukwa, your ignorance is not evidence of anything".
- What is the meaning of IGNORANCE? S/He also said;
"But we cannot have the same article under two names, nor an article on Ibibio-Efik that does not include Ibibio, nor an article on Efik that does not include Efik. A little common sense would be helpful."
- What is meaning of Common sense? Or because Kwami put it very nicely, and mine wasn't? Also I wasn't blanking the Efik page, since I just signed on it takes me a long while to write up an article. According to the statements above, Kwami said I could develop articles on Efik and Ibibio, that is what I was doing when you or your other BIASED administrators returned the articles back to the re-direct.
- : Since wikipedia says a false statement is fixed immediately it is reported, I explained out the mistakes, but Kwami kept insisting that me a native who speaks these languages was wrong and asked for sources. I provided the sources and Kwami Called A brilliant Historian who is a Million times more knowledgable than Kwami on the language;
"utterly ignorant AND not some random idiot who posted a web page".
- Yet you and your other Biased colleges are claiming that am the one attacking Kwami and causing a disruption.
- : Am done with Wikipedia, am going to be taking this issues to the Founder/head by email, once the Ibibio union are involved it might become a legal matter if Wikipedia still continues to portray this misleading information.
I will take this matter to the heads by Email first because they might not be aware of what you all supposed administrators are doing to their image. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ibibiogrl (talk • contribs) 21:41, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
Hi Mops,
Pls read my comments on the ANI page. I think Ibibiogrl means well, she just needs some guidance, and she's not willing to take it from me. — kwami (talk) 22:17, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
- Obviously we would like to have contributors from that part of the world, but Ibibiogrl's record here is so unpromising that I think we need good assurances that something will change in the future. (I would welcome any evidence that Ibibiogrl means well. It is hard to improve the encyclopedia when you have no interest in or respect for its policies. Read her statement above if you are uncertain about that). Mentorship has value only for someone who understands that something has gone wrong and would be willing to work with a mentor. EdJohnston (talk) 22:46, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
- I agree with Ed in this case - I have no grudge against Ibibiogrl, but the editor's attitude, despite multiple pleas for otherwise, remained combative and even insulting at points. If there's a serious expression of guilt and the editor decides they'd like to walk a different path, I'd be happy to help. However, as it is now, I believe the block should stand. m.o.p 22:52, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
- I agree that it would require some indication that she wants help. Just my 2¢ as the person she's most upset with. — kwami (talk) 23:05, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
- For the record, your input is highly appreciated, and very admirable; as the editor in conflict with her, I respect your neutrality and helpfulness. As for Ibibiogrl, we'll see where that goes. Cheers! m.o.p 00:59, 17 June 2011 (UTC)
Can you adopt me i want a new adopter.
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Mr. Pit (2nd nomination)
This isn't personalI belive the AFD on Campaign for "santorum" neologism was closed way to early and am contesting your close.
An editor has asked for a deletion review of Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2011 June 21. Because you closed the deletion discussion for this page, speedily deleted it, or otherwise were interested in the page, you might want to participate in the deletion review. KoshVorlon' Naluboutes Aeria Gloris 12:17, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
James Ball
Thank you for your concern. But I will not be blocked - _I am adding_ wikipedia to adblock. I also feel regret for having donated to the site before, but this will not happen again. Demonuminon (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 23:25, 23 June 2011 (UTC).
Thomas James BallWhy the hell did you delete his page?
Does his suffering mean nothing to you?
Heartless bitch. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.57.206.141 (talk • contribs)
Hey, Master of Puppets, OBVIOUSLY there is a public interested in keeping this article. Restore your deletion. Look at the massive flood of comments regarding your deletion here: http://www.<linkremoved>.com/2011/06/24/the-organized-silencing-of-a-man-publicly-burned-to-death/ and here http://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/i81rw/the_organized_silencing_of_a_man_publicly_burned/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Romerom (talk • contribs) 20:05, 24 June 2011 (UTC)
- Ball HIT A FOUR-YEAR-OLD CHILD, refused to pay child support, called for insurrection, demanded terrorism and violence as a solution, ultimately killed himself (leaving his children without a father) and damaged public property in the process. Even after all that, his incoherent message has mostly been ignored except by the less discriminating people claiming to speak for "men's rights" who haven't bothered to look into the details of his case. (If you really want to damage your cause, adopt a grown man who hits his own four-year-old child and flakes out on his child support as your poster boy.) --Orange Mike | Talk 20:26, 24 June 2011 (UTC) (proud father who has never hit his child in his lifetime)
Hey, "proud father who never hit his child in his lifetime", not everybody is against disciplining their children by spanking. He said his daughter was licking his hand, and he had told her repeatedly to stop. She didn't, and he smacked her. He didn't punch her, or send her to the hospital, or cause any serious injury. Just enough to have his wife baited into calling the police on him by child protective services. As for child support, he paid his child support until the point where he wasn't able to afford it due to an employment issue. Is that such a crazy thing to have happen? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.211.155.1 (talk) 04:28, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
- Again, while I do sympathize with the family and supporters, I am not taking sides, nor do I have any bias in this situation. I am not a feminist, nor am I a misogynist - I am fair and neutral towards all people, whether they be abusive fathers or abused fathers.
- This deletion was enforced solely in keeping with Wikipedia's long-established policies. Mr. Ball's death, while indeed tragic, was not reported throughout the reliable media enough to show his notability.
- I hope this makes sense to all those saddened by Mr. Ball's passing. Cheers, m.o.p 21:04, 24 June 2011 (UTC)
- I understand that you do not think that Mr. Ball's death is something that qualifies as an event and thus deleted said article. I disagree but I do see the merits of your argument. However, you claim to be unbiased in this debate and yet for someone who judges on the letter of the law you break the law and close debate 2.5 days before final judgment is to be rendered. If you have no corner then I ask why make this article a special case that it must be quelled , by your own admission, 2.5 days before any other articles found in similar circumstances are voted upon. I petition you to reinstate and allow the normal course of the discussion continue for the 2.5 days, allow the full opportunity for the pro side to make their case then recluse yourself from the final judgment. This is the only way to ensure transparency so that your claim of neutrality can be believed. CaffOMHW (talk) 03:28, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
- Ahead of things, let me tell you that I appreciate the civility.
- Wikipedia's policies aren't law - they're guidelines. As an administrator, it's my job to apply policy in a way that is completely devoid of bias and benefits the encyclopedia as a whole.
- On a side note, the deletion nomination was closed 1.5 days before the normal time. The page had a whole work week to be saved, rewritten or reworked; however, due to the lack of outside sourcing that carried reliability, there was nothing to keep that wasn't editorialized or unencyclopedic. I would also like to point out that almost every account that voiced their opinion in the 'keep' spectrum had either only edited that page or had edited very little aside from the page. Meanwhile, the deletion argument was put forward by experienced users.
- Though I understand that some people take offense to my early closure, I assure them that one extra day would not have yielded success, and that I took many factors into consideration before closing the discussion.
- Again, thank you for the civility, but I won't be overturning judgment or recreating a deletion discussion at this date. m.o.p 08:17, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
ITNthx for the 2 quick updates of my nom ;)
but also can you see the bolivia one. its got support and very nearly out of the news. we could tack it nearer the border.Lihaas (talk) 22:26, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
Ball closure.
Thank God you are an ambassador for WP, and against censorship, MoP. When Wikipedia fails, and it eventually will, it will largely be because most people don't like to be gamed and would rather not read well cultivated information that is maintained by dishonest brokers who hide behind rules that are never applied in an even-handed manner. The idea that a story is not relevant merely because it is not yet encyclopedic is ridiculous when one sees all the articles which linger on for months or years in the same state. The idea that a story is not relevant because the motivations/justifications of the user are suspect would be grounds for eliminating half the biographical articles in WP. It smacks of an agenda. The appearance of impropriety is as bad as actual impropriety.173.78.20.96 (talk) 04:51, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
- I appreciate the feedback.
- I do my best to maintain an equal, proportionate response in all dealings on Wikipedia; I don't defend things I like, or attack things I dislike, just for the reason of screwing with people. That strikes me as childish. Instead, the most I can do is try to help others understand Wikipedia policies, which are generally mind-bending and hard to grasp (for example, most people ask, "What's the reasoning a war hero isn't considered notable when Donkey Kong is?").
- Maybe one day the policies will change. I mean, most of these were written five, six year ago - the world's changing, and I expect they will with time. But, for now, the guidelines handle what comes in.
- Again, thanks for the input. I appreciate not being personally attacked - it makes it easier to reply. Cheers, m.o.p 05:08, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Natami (2nd nomination)
- The close was thoroughly thought-out, so there's not much ground for me to explore that I haven't already. If you're set on going to DRV, there's nothing I can say which will change your mind, and it's your right to ask for a review. However, current consensus sits at delete (unless the 'keep' side is hiding an ace-in-the-hole reliable source or something). Cheers, m.o.p 04:55, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- So, what about the reliable sources we already brought up in the AfD such as this interview in Amiga Future or this news article from nr2.ru? We've already established that Amiga Future isn't sponsored by a hardware company as one !voter there falsely claimed. On a related note, did you discount the !votes from individuals making misleading statements or those claiming there were "no independent reliable sources"? (I could tell you how that !voter happened to show up there, but he isn't going to like it.) I could also link to forum posts by another delete !voter who showed up there who was very much into a "delete at any cost" mode because he doesn't like "amiga clones". --Tothwolf (talk) 05:11, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- Those sources were there before the previous close, and I, like the previous administrator, do not think they're strong enough.
- I've already covered what kind of rationale was discounted and what wasn't.
- As for your last statement about other editors - I'm not quite sure what your point is, but I don't think it's relevant. As I said, I've discounted any rationale that does not apply policy.
- Cheers, m.o.p 05:33, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- Uh, no...nr2.ru was only brought up in the second AfD. Strong enough is also an argument to be made in a !vote, not a closing statement. --Tothwolf (talk) 05:56, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- My apologies, the Russian source was indeed added after the first AfD. Still too shaky for a stand-alone article, though. Cheers, m.o.p 13:42, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- To follow up on my earlier comment, while I don't really want to get into an "X did this because of Y" sort of thing with regards to this AfD, there were a number of delete !voters who showed up there for personal reasons/vendettas/bias and/or who made false statements about sources. Despite the template at the top of the AfD, the second AfD also didn't suffer from the forum canvassing that the first did. One of the delete !voters actually came by way of the forum and first AfD and was trolling because of his personal dislike of Amiga clones. --Tothwolf (talk) 15:33, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
If they have valid, policy-based rationale, their personal motivation doesn't matter, solely for the reason that an encyclopedia based on liking or disliking things would crumble instantly. I'm sure some of the deletion crew could just-as-easily blame keep voters for being enthusiasts and fans of Natami - but that's not important. As a result, making allegations of personal bias is unnecessary. The help is appreciated, but there's nothing I can do with the information. m.o.p 15:39, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- It matters when someone makes false statements and tries to hide what they are doing behind policy. As for keeps, quite a number appear to be from well established editors who don't appear to be all that interested in Amiga topics. As for myself, I wasn't even aware of NatAmi until the first AfD and didn't even !vote in the first AfD since I thought it was pretty obvious it was headed for a no-consensus close. --Tothwolf (talk) 15:58, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- Again, if their rationale is grounded in policy, their motivation does not matter, simply because it's impossible to discern someone's intent through text, and because the second someone accuses another of favoritism/malicious intent the entire argument turns into a bunch of people shouting, "You're lying." That's why there's nothing I can do with your information in this case. Cheers, m.o.p 16:02, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- Apologies to you, M.O.P., for addressing another editor on your talk page, but I just wanted to jump in this conversation. Tothwolf, with no prejudice against you at all I strongly suggest you take this in perspective. There have been two AFDs and an ANI report over this article. The way you treated me on my talk page threatening DRV because I was a new administrator was, as I feel it, borderline harassing. That you canvassed two other administrators to talk to me was also a below the belt move. In good faith, I relisted the debate and it has closed again as delete. I strongly suggest taking the advice at WP:DGAF into account here and let the issue go. I don't think there will be a problem recreating this article, even pulling the old content back from the deletion log, when the subject has better sources in a broader community. I hold no ill feeling toward you, this is purely honest advice.--v/r - TP 16:46, 27 June 2011 (UTC)]
- TParis, while you are correct in that this talk page is not the place for this, because you brought this up here and you seem to value honest feedback, I'll address this here.
In no way did I ever threaten you with DRV, let alone because you were a new administrator (discussion in question). I did however upon noticing that you had passed RFA only days earlier decide it best not to press you further in public and instead sent you this short email: "Sigh. I just noticed you just finished your RFA. The Natami AfD was a bad AfD to pick to close right out of the gate. It is likely to end up at DRV and given the magazine I mentioned, overturned. I really wish you would reconsider your close. You might have noticed I didn't even !vote in the AfD itself, however I did point out a number of things and took a couple of people to task for making false or misleading statements." That is the only email I sent you about the matter and not once did I ever threaten you with DRV. Please get your facts correct before making statements such as this because such mistakes can have a negative effect on others.
After you replied expressing your disagreement over the sources (and implied that I might be biased because I sometimes contribute to computing-related articles) I asked a number of other administrators (way more than two, actually) what they thought of the AfD's close because I wanted unbiased feedback to see if I was somehow totally off-track before I initiated a DRV. The feedback I got was fairly unanimous in that the close was problematic. Before I had a chance to draft a DRV however, you reverted your own close and relisted the AfD from scratch with a new listing. In no way did I ever "canvass" anyone to "talk to you" and if others did contact you directly, they did so at their own discretion and for their own reasons.
There indeed have been two AfDs, the first of which you closed (although one could also argue that the second was merely a relist of the first). The AN/I "discussion" you also mentioned wasn't really over this article or the first AfD, it was an attempt by someone to game AN/I when they were unable to bully me on their talk page. Please be more careful making these sort of blanket statements in the future because as I mentioned above such statements can cause problems for others. --Tothwolf (talk) 17:38, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- You're email was exactly like your reply here. You like to make threats without actually making them: "such statements can cause problems". There is very little way your email cannot be interpreted as anything other than a threat of DRV because I am a new administrator. This is all I'll say on M.O.P.'s talk page as I came here to offer honest advice and you don't seem interested in it. If you'd like to discuss further with me, you know where to find my talk page.--v/r - TP 17:51, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- TParis, in no way did I ever make an implied threat. While I may be a little blunt and abrasive at times (or maybe I'm just an assume good faith in that you simply misremembered the facts I outlined above when you made this statement here. It is easy to forget a few details here or there and not everyone maintains detailed notes for this sort of stuff (I do, for a number of reasons, although I didn't always).
As far as honest advice goes, this is a two-way street and I gave you my opinion as well. If you choose to ignore and discount it, so be it, but I'd suggest you be much more careful in the future and get your facts correct before you make the sort of statement you made above. Such statements can and do cause problems for other editors. Who knows, it may just be that you've not been around long enough yet to have witnessed people blocked or punished in some way because someone else didn't have their facts together. (If you do decide you want to continue this discussion, perhaps we should take this elsewhere.) --Tothwolf (talk) 18:14, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
]
Heaton Park Hebrew Congregation (2nd nomination)
Natami
Thought you might want to know
- (talk page stalker) That's just the same little ideological website which has been pushing for the "Martyrdom of St. Thomas Ball" attention since day one; no actual new coverage. --Orange Mike | Talk 14:34, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
- I guess I should also mention that the way I found it, was that someone tried submitting it to Fark.com last night. The admins did not greenlight it, so that particular submission/thread did not go to the main Fark page, appearing only to those with Totalfark accounts. The submission said something like "Wikipedia deletes burning man" (I'm not at a computer with TF access so I might not have that exactly right). It might, theoretically, based on the submission, be considered some sort of off-site canvassing (it was submitted with the asinine tag). For what its worth, the thread went uncommented, so I don't think that particular attempt garnered any support. I just wanted to drop a line in case that this was just the first drop of a large storm. If I see anything else, I'll drop a line here. Umbralcorax (talk) 15:58, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
Wiki ad
4chan raid
Thomas James Bell, new information
- (reliable sources. --Orange Mike | Talk 13:33, 30 June 2011 (UTC)]
Happy Birthday
![](//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3d/Nuvola_apps_cookie.svg/50px-Nuvola_apps_cookie.svg.png)
Just a happy Birthday message to you, Master of Puppets, from the Wikipedia Birthday Committee! Have a great day!
Monterey Bay (talk) 02:00, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
User:BillyMoses
Natami
AFD
- Your input is appreciated, though there's nothing I can do with it but take a note. If you'd like, you can weigh in at the next AfD(s), when/if they arise. Cheers, m.o.p 19:42, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
Dr Myko San – Health from Mushrooms
- I'd be happy to help! However, I'm currently away from a computer (typing this on my phone), so I'll have to check in on the 11th of July. Does that sound okay? m.o.p 15:40, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
- wp:NODEADLINE :-) LeadSongDog come howl! 15:48, 7 July 2011 (UTC)]
From a former Wikipedian
-71.234.90.0 (talk) 04:50, 8 July 2011 (UTC)
- Hey, thanks so much! I'm not sure who you are, but I really appreciate the sentiment. Hope all is well! m.o.p 20:49, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
Deletion review for Thomas James Ball
DRV comment
DRV
Could you please overturn the deletion of these files per File:Signature of Amitabh Bachchan.svg and File:Signature of Zakir Hussain.svg:
- File:Signature of Vishwanathan Anand.svg
- File:Signature of Vijay Mallya.svg
- File:Signature of Venkaiah Naidu.svg
- File:Signature of Sudeep Bandhopadhyay.svg
- File:Signature of Sonia Gandhi.svg
- File:Signature of Somnath Chatterjee.svg
- File:Signature of Ratan Tata.svg
- File:Signature of Kumar Mangalam Birla.svg
- File:Signature of Rajeev Shukla.svg
- File:Signature of Raj Babbar.svg
- File:Signature of Rahul Gandhi.svg
- File:Signature of Priyanka Vadra.svg
- File:Signature of P. T. Usha.svg
- File:Signature of Narendra Modi.svg
- File:Signature of Nandan Nilekani.svg
- File:Signature of Manish Tewari.svg
- File:Signature of Leander Paes.svg
- File:Signature of Lata Mangeshkar.svg
- File:Signature of Kumar Mangalam Birla.svg
- File:Signature of Karia Munda.svg
- File:Signature of Kapil Sibal.svg
- File:Signature of Kamal Nath.svg
- File:Signature of K. Kamraj.svg
- File:Signature of Jaya Bachchan.svg
- File:Signature of Gautam Gambhir.svg
- File:Signature of Brinda Karat.svg
- File:Signature of Bharatsinh Solanki.svg
- File:Signature of Bhairon Singh Shekhawat.svg
- File:Signature of B. K. Birla.svg
- File:Signature of Azim Premji.svg
- File:Signature of Arun Jaitely.svg
- File:Signature of Aishwarya Rai Bachchan.svg
- File:Signature of Abhishek Manu Singhvi.svg
- File:Signature of Abhishek Bachchan.svg
- File:Signature of Sting.svg
- File:Signature of Br. L. D. Lobo.svg
- File:Signature of VJ Rannvijay Singh Singha.svg
Diligent07Appears to be less than new. See User talk:Raoulduke25 where he states that this is a deliberate series of edits.
- Can you please help defend our collective effort of including the obscene middle-finger incident in the Cheney Mason article? It should be maintained in the article for public interest, etc. Please see the Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard#Cheney Mason discussion page and include your thoughts in favor of having the content remain in the interests of the public, etc
[8], [9] and even imputation that an editor has a connection with the person [10]. He has been on since April, and started off as being experienced on WP IMHO. Kindly keep an eye out please. Especially for any sign of a real "collective effort"? Such as [11]? Cheers. Collect (talk) 11:36, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
A cookie for you!
Keep up the good work defending the "Wiki" against genre warriors. Thanks for the help! talk) 17:31, 13 July 2011 (UTC)]
Hello. You have a new message at Lionelt's talk page.
Semi protection
OK, this thing with the militant atheism page is impossibleThese guys are incredible... I could dig up diffs to show you how they revert and wikilawyer even the SMALLEST attempt to move the article closer to NPOV. But that would take a long time for you to read. How about I show you this instead:
These guys are utterly without scruples. Who in their right mind would remove the NPOV dispute tag when heated arguments have been raging for weeks and NO moves whatsoever have been made to fix the article? Oh right, that would be someone in their right mind who is running a propaganda platform.
Anyway... I wanted to ask your advice on what to do. These guys are impossible to work with. Most of the other editors have given up and refuse to put this page on their watchlist. So what to do then? Request formal mediation? Articles for deletion? Something else?
Me and the other editors would like to see the page replaced with a disambiguation page... since literally ALL the content has already been covered (better) in Criticism of atheism, State atheism and New Atheism.
Obhave (talk) 13:21, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
- Hello User:Master of Puppets. I noticed this conversation and thought I might add that an NPOV policy. Obhave (talk) 13:11, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
- One more thing, m.o.p... my opponents are currently twisting your words to make it look as if you were scolding user:Mann_jess all along. Obhave (talk) 14:42, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
]
User:Jasper Deng page protection
- No worries! m.o.p 19:35, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
Is there a procedure for brutal uncollaborated editing with a destructive intent?I noticed that you recently had problems with proposed brutal editing by Peter S Strempel. Although he has been more sensible on your project in the end (possibly because of your administrator status?) he has not been so with regard to the astrology project pages to which he made a similar 'razor-promise'. Could you please see this Afd request which is one of three he made for major 'history of astrology' articles within the last hour, with a promise on another important page that any comment which is not refrences within 7 days will be removed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Babylonian_astrology
Is there anything that can be done about this officially to stop him wreaking havoc with content whilst he knows that the small group of editors providing content on these pages are already stretched to the limit trying to keep up with what needs to be done? I don't understand what drives some people to want to edit WP like this, but I think it is entriely the result of his ego-stress that when he proposed an edit for a passage, no one favoured it. Hope you can help or advise Zac Δ talk 01:15, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks! assume good faith; I believe that Peter is simply trying to help improve Wikipedia. While his methods may be lacking in some areas, he has displayed a pretty decent grasp on the policies he's trying to enforce.
- However, I agree that he shouldn't be making any changes if they're not discussed with the community first. Do you mind pulling up a few diffs of where he went against consensus? I'll approach him with your concern then. Thanks, m.o.p 03:57, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
- Actually there hasn't been any significant content dispute with Peter. He proposed a change to a section edit which wasn't a very good proposition and a few editors commented but without rancur, and I added a new section post immediately afterwards to point out the proiposed change would contradict with how the definition was given correctly at a later point in the article, outlining how I understood WP policy expected the main astrology article to pull its own content together, along with its summarised content from its daughter pages. Peter never responded to this but other editors started working in that direction immediately. Then, without further discussion or comment, Peter came back four days later to announce an intention to take his 'word razor' to all unreferenced assertions on the main astrology page, its sub-pages, and the portal page itself, to ensure his perceived disagreement was not circumvented in pages he viewed as content forks (I'm still not sure what he means by that). My response to that can be seen - a perfectly reasonable request for him to do what he felt was most productive, but consider that citation-tagging was the way to go. I also placed comments on his talk-page, which you can read if you are interested. That he erupted into a frenzy of AfD requests last night says something, I think, about his unwillingness to discuss and engage in other views. Most of his posts appear as new section declarations that don't appear to have considered the responses other editors give him.
- I've summarised this in the ANI request Dougweller started. The deletion requests were a step too far IMO, and I'm concerned that Peter would spring to such drastic measures in reaction to what he perceives to be me not allowing him to do what he wants to do. I'll be away for a few days so I'm tying up my WP activity now. That underlines my concern that he intends to take such drastic action with only one week's notice of intent. Thanks for looking into this. It would be good if something could be proposed to stop huge problems before they occur. 10:35, 22 July 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zachariel (talk • contribs
)
- One last request. I have just noticed that a related complaint, which is quite serious but has been sidetracked (deliberatly IMO) by Peter's suggestions that I have prevented him from doing what he wants, has been collapsed as "going nowehere" by an unsympathetic editor.
- "Its ben here several days and no admin has even sniffed at a block or ban - clearly you're not going to get admin action. So this should got to WP:DR or WP:RFCU if you want to take it further. I've boldly collapsed this, though I won't be surprised if someone uncollapses it"
- If you can find the time could you at least take a look at that related problem, and consider uncollapsing it, because the issues are serious and have gone beyond the point where Dispute resolution are appropriate. I will be away and have nothing more to add, but the problems identified still remain. Zac Δ talk 10:58, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
What to do?
- I've started a threat at ANI. Those AfDs are purely pointy and if no one objects I'll close them. talk) 06:11, 22 July 2011 (UTC)]
- Replied there. m.o.p 08:20, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
Talk Page on Militant Atheism - Introduction Section
- The update is appreciated, thanks very much. I've been dealing with life for the past two weeks, but I'll be back to close that discussion tonight or tomorrow. Thanks again, m.o.p 22:03, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
- Just bringing this up again, given the current state of this section. I believe the discussion will be archived automatically if not closed. I'm sorry if I sound pushy with you having a lot on your plate of late. If you would prefer, I could alert User:Fastily instead. Turnsalso (talk) 16:55, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
ITN
- I knew that tab I closed had unfinished business on it... thanks. 2008 University of Central Arkansas shootings is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.
The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2008 University of Central Arkansas shootings(2nd nomination) until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on good quality evidence, and our policies and guidelines.
Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article.
talk 14:00, 1 September 2011 (UTC)]
Hey
- Done! Both your userpage and the transcluded page are protected. Cheers, « ₣M₣ » 04:09, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Restored. m.o.p 05:21, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
]
User talk:Joshua the Independent
- My mistake - my block script auto-filled the edit summary. The block was issued due to the user's newfound will to disrupt Wikipedia intentionally. Their previous contributions are welcome, but this behaviour necessitates administrative action. m.o.p 21:52, 13 September 2011 (UTC)
Say hi to your imaginary girlfriend for me
- Well, I do love getting hate mail. Thanks for the laugh! Cheers, m.o.p 05:17, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
...further to the above lovely note, I weighed in on Calabe's talk page - there appears to be more confusion here than at first glance. bou·le·var·dier (talk) 05:19, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
Sorry to drop by again, but Silentsizzlingsausage (talk · contribs) would appear to be a duck. bou·le·var·dier (talk) 05:31, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
- No, it's not an issue! Thanks for the note, blocked. Cheers, WP:SPI. Thanks again, m.o.p 06:13, 14 September 2011 (UTC)]
I have to admit ...
- See the above section. The link is apparently a very subtle spam link that Calabe is removing, and socks are springing up to revert him. Swarm u / t 10:20, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
Moderation
- Alright, I'll make my way back. Thanks for letting me know! m.o.p 05:18, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
User:12.139.96.228
- To be honest, this case is perplexing. Half of this user's edits are constructive (mostly sourced), the other half aren't sourced - and the user won't reply to anybody. I'm also too busy to go through every edit and confirm whether or not it's good. I forgot about this for a while - I'll think about it tonight and figure something out for tomorrow. Thanks for reminding me! m.o.p 05:18, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
Whoops
- Whoops! Must not have been looking when I ran my block script. Thanks for letting me know, I've reblocked them for a far shorter (technically, an infinitely shorter) time. Cheers, m.o.p 22:58, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
Ashleyleggat404
- You're fully right in that the blanking policy covers indefinite blocks. I've removed the user's talk page rights as a result. Thanks again! m.o.p 00:28, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkback
Moderation
- If you look into this please consider whether Anupam's actions on the talk page and the entry itself are violations of WP:OWN. He's been driving off those he disagrees with by bludgening them to death with argument and heavily policing the entry claiming that there is a consensus written in stone despite many dissenting voices. Others have taken to simply calling him "the article's owner." I have had enough of this behavior personally and left him a message about it on his talk page. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:52, 20 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Dear User:Master of Puppets, the above user has misrepresented the occurrences at the article. I started another Introduction discussion at the article's talk page but User:Griswaldo has chosen to edit war over a second NPOV tag, despite the fact that one already exists in the article. He has done so despite the fact that the Introduction is being discussed in a peaceful manner at the talk page, in violation of your injunction: "We've only got consensus on this proposed versions (and loose consensus at that) - please do not attempt to subvert said consensus by making undiscussed changes." I have posted a message on his talk page about this behaviour. Nevertheless, I also do not wish to argue with the user personally and would prefer if you could go back to moderating the discussion between the two parties at the talk page. Thanks for taking the time to read this message. With regards, AnupamTalk 20:58, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- His "injunction?" Adding a neutrality tag to a specific sentence which an editor disputes the neutrality of is hardly "subverting the consensus by making undiscussed changes." Please stop wikilawyering to get your way. There is a growing consensus against your position regarding this article in general as well, despite your aggressive policing of the entry and the talk page. See ]
- I just thought that I would mention that User:Griswaldo, after seeing this message, just now decided to comment in the discussion rather than edit war against consensus further. Thanks for taking the time to read this message. With regards, AnupamTalk 21:51, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- "Edit war against consensus further?" My comment there has nothing to do with your message here. I've made three total edits to this entry ever. One was a copy edit in June, another was reverting an IP vandal, and the third was the revert of your Ownership edit. Please do not insinuate that I'm a edit warrior on this page. It is disingenuous.Griswaldo (talk) 22:08, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Thank you all for approaching me with your concerns.
- Obviously, I do not support Anupam - this is because I'm remaining a neutral third party, and, therefore, can't take sides. However, Griswaldo: please keep in mind that I did ask for all discussion to take place on the talk page. Why not just add your complaints to the talk page? It would have been much easier to discuss.
- I do agree that adding a NPOV tag, while slightly redundant, isn't horrible, but your intent seems to have been to stir discussion on that particular section, discussion that would be much more appropriate on the talk page.
- As for your and Snalwibma's concerns of Anupam trying to 'own' the article, I'm curious as to what you two mean; what 'delusions'?
- Also, Griswaldo, I don't think Anupam meant to insinuate you are an edit warrior (though this is just my take) - rather, they wanted to add the note that you've weighed in on discussion. m.o.p 22:10, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- your intent seems to have been to stir discussion on that particular section - No that's incorrect. I didn't add this tag, I simply reverted Anupam's attempt to own the page when he removed it. I agreed with JimWae's addition of the tag and found Anupam's removal to be unwarranted and a display of ownership.Griswaldo (talk) 22:16, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Note that, for all intents and purposes, reverting somebody is adding whatever is included in your edit, regardless of who put it there first. You revert a removal, you're agreeing with the edition you're reverting to - simple.
- And, if you agreed with JimWae, then we go back to what I was saying earlier - say so on the talk page. Two of you agree? Great! That's closer to consensus. But it means nothing if you express your support by reverting removals.
- Again, as I've asked multiple times, please stop saying that Anupam is owning anything without giving me evidence of it first. m.o.p 22:22, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Dear User:Master of Puppets, thank you for your reply to all of us. The reason User:Snalwibma stated that I was attempting to "own" the article was because I reverted an undiscussed removal from the article, which not only myself, but two other users objected to. In fact, two anonymous IP Addresses also reverted User:Snalwibma. I was open to compromise on the issue and stated that I would accept User:Turnsalso's compromise on the issue. I kindly request you to look at that discussion yourself and get an honest reading of it. Also, the only reason I removed the second NPOV tag was because there was already one present, which I did not remove. I only reverted the addition of a second NPOV tag once and even explained myself on the talk page. When I went to the talk page, I found rude accusations and an anti-collaborative spirit, despite the fact that I have been nothing but polite. I hope this helps. With regards, AnupamTalk 22:25, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry - I know I should not rise to the bait, but I have to object to the comment "The reason User:Snalwibma stated that I was attempting to 'own' the article was because I reverted an undiscussed removal ..." How dare Anupam presume to know what is in my mind! The reason I describe Anupam's attitude to the article as one of ownership is because that is how s/he behaves - "policing" every edit, pronouncing on whether s/he "accepts" or "rejects" it, peremptorily reverting anything s/he does not like, without discussion, presuming to know others' motives, and judging them as fit/unfit to contribute to the article. This has been going on for weeks, if not months. It is impossible to discuss the content of the article, let alone improve the text, because everything is filtered through the approval/disapproval of the article's self-appointed guardian, Anupam. tendentious or disruptive when they bring up certain issues, even when they are clearly in the majority. That is not collaborative. I stopped editing the article heavily because of those issues. I don't have any delusions that my opinion is worth more than anyone else's here, but I would think that the large number of established, experienced editors who are all saying there's a problem, would indicate something. — Jess· Δ♥ 19:45, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
Please reconsider your full protection of Militant atheist
- In case you didn't notice, I asked that people think twice about pointing fingers at each other. If you'd like to start a sockpuppetry investigation, let me know, and we can take that avenue - however, don't accuse other editors of ownership without substance. If you think Anupam is trying to own things, give me something. Diffs, edits, anything. I'll check it out for you, but right now, baseless accusations are not what I'm looking for.
- Also, notice that I protected the article with your edit being the last one. How is that validating the very person you've been reverting?
- The protection will stay until consensus is reached. m.o.p 22:19, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Because protection is what he wants quite clearly. He's stalling conversation and shouting down people on the talk page, where, if you have a look, you'll see he's clearly in the minority. Because of your "injunction" as he calls it, he also claims that no matter how many people agree with a certain change it is illegitimate. I'll be happy to gather some diffs, but my first message to you above was to please look into the situation carefully before acting on it. Did you do that and come to the conclusion that I'm wrong or did you not head that request? Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:29, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Yes, I did heed your request. I don't see any ownership behaviour from Anupam, though, being involved in multiple disputes, I didn't have the time to read every last word on the page, so you're free to provide evidence. However, from what I can see, Anupam's last proposal was supported by the majority - not to count (and I don't mean to imply that I decide where consensus lies by looking at pure numbers), but from looking at pure supports versus opposes, eight people (nine including Anupam) support while four oppose. How does that make Anupam's views a minority? m.o.p 22:37, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- It depends on what view you are talking about. The current RFC on the introduction is something that most people don't even want to engage because most people think this very entry should be split up and integrated into other entries. I reluctantly engaged the RfC just now myself. The last time the more serious question about the entry was asked, several of the new commentators were not around, and there was "no consensus" found because the opposing side was chalk full of SPAs and editors with a view that is outright hostile to atheism (which is a legitimate view to hold, but it is a minority view). Let me find you some diffs.Griswaldo (talk) 22:43, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- User:Griswaldo, that is exactly the issue: you do not want to collaborate with other users on the talk page, which is why you were reluctant to participate in the current RfC. Moreover, there were several SPA's on the side of the opposition as well, including WP:NPOV. In addition, the split was again recently discussed and the specific case to do so was refuted by several editors. As such, there was no consensus for it. I hope this helps. With regards, AnupamTalk 22:52, 20 September 2011 (UTC)]
- No. You are trying to write an article that violates WP:SYNTH because it conflates New Atheism with oppressive communist regimes and their histories of violence. That's hardly NPOV. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:59, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
Hi m.o.p., as someone who occasionally looks at that page (and then washes my hands), I just want to compliment you as having done the right thing in full protecting. By way of unsolicited advice to the involved editors, the best thing they could do is to allow The Wrong Version to sit there a good long time, and devote their energy to other things. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:54, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
]
Yes, please reconsider your full protection of
WP:RS—deserve protection against misinformed reverts. Thanks Geremia (talk) 16:12, 22 September 2011 (UTC)]
Diffs of
- I'm not really sure where the ownership is here; nowhere in our policies is it stated that a user can't promote their RFC on the subject talk page. If it's ongoing and they'd like to move it to the forefront, what's wrong with that? More so, some of your summaries seem inaccurate - in that last diff, you state that Anupam is removing images, yet I only see Anupam adding an image (the peace dove that's at the top of the page). Also, you use repeating examples. m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Well clearly the last diff was wrong. Thanks for the vote of confidence. There are no repeat examples nor inaccurate summaries, just a mistaken copy paste of the second to last diff to the last position as well. I have fixed it. Cheers.
- Using "consensus claims from one RfC to reject changes made to article content
- Same as above. Using the "consensus" bludgeon to get his way. Please note that clearly we ought to edit by consensus, but this consensus is highly disputed, and IMO not there in the first place. The real problem is the way in which Anupam decides to use it like a trump card to remove changes he doesn't like. Ask yourself if all changes post "consensus" have been removed or just the ones Anupam decided he wanted removed.
Master of Puppets do you need more diffs or is this enough?Griswaldo (talk) 23:31, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Well I need more diffs because your "evidence" so far looks like a desperate attempt to incriminate an editor who has been very successful in persuading his colleagues to adopt his proposals. Anupam has presented his proposals, argued the merits and persuaded many editors. Anything you want to tell us about why you're having difficulty doing likewise? – Lionel (talk) 06:02, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- I don't see this is as conclusive evidence, either. And, it should be said - if people are editing against established consensus, then people are free to re-evaluate consensus, but edit-warring against it doesn't make much sense. m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- If not ownership then what is this - [28], [29], [30]? He removes two RfCs started by another editor, and revolving around the question that many of us actually find to be the fundamental question to answer regarding the entry. Then he edit wars to keep these RfCs off the page, claiming again to have some sort of authority stemming from your prior actions. If you aren't willing to do something here I'm going to another administrator and I'm going to ask for your initial "consensus," your strong arm administrating, and your lack of action here to be reviewed as well. Thanks.Griswaldo (talk) 17:08, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Anupam has already apologized for reverting those RfC additions, and we've moved past it. He also didn't claim to have administrative authority, but was waiting for my approval. We've cleared this up, it's not an issue. So no, I'm not going to take any action (as I've said here and on ANI). Now, if you'd like to threaten me and tell me that, since I'm not cooperating with your wills, you'll go to another administrator, that's fine - as I've said, you can seek outside opinions - but remember to keep a cool head, because borderline threats are not appreciated. m.o.p 21:49, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- It was not a threat, "borderline" or otherwise. You are conveniently ignoring a growing number of voices who are all saying the same thing - there is an ownership problem here. The deletion issue has not been "cleared up" as far as I'm concerned. Whenever it is mentioned Anupam insists that he did not "unilaterally" delete the RfCs from the page, which is a blatant distortion, since that is exactly what he did. He continues to act as a policeman at the page, and yes he does continue to cite your authority. Did you bother to read the many diffs I posted above in the second two sections? I will quote three random examples from those I provided for you if you want.
- When he first deleted the two RfCs he wrote: "rv - see discussion with reviewing administrator; approval needed to start another RfC while one is already occurring."
- When he deleted a fact tag that JimWae put into the lede: "rv excessive tagging per talk; tag is already extant in header; do not subvert previous consensus but gain consensus for potential additions per administrative notice"
- When he rejected another recent change to the entry: "accepted edits by User:Jkhwiki; rv removal of longstanding referenced content - see discussion on talk page and gain consensus for action per administrative injunction"
- In talk page comments and in edit summaries he consistently does the same thing. He refers to your authority, either directly or indirectly through your "notice" or your "injunction" as he likes to call it. I never said the claimed to have administrative authority, I said that he's using your authority, by way of your comments, such as the closure of the AfD to bully people. Do you deny that he citing your comments, because if you do then I must have fabricated those quotes. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:32, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
If you say "If you don't do A, then I'm going to go and do B", that's a threat. Anyway, that's not the issue - we've already covered all the issues with the RfC reverting, and Anupam won't do it again. Why keep raising hell over it?
We've already covered everything you bring up. And no, I'm not denying anything. I'm just saying this, and it's very simple: I don't think there has been any blatant ownership here. That's my judgment. If you disagree, again, feel free to raise this with another administrator or on ANI. m.o.p 23:12, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Regarding the new RFC, I still think there has not passed yet too much time since the last discussion about splitting the article. As far as I knew, repeating these sorts of debates (like splitting, deleting, renaming) before a larger amount of time has passed (like 6 months) is usually discouraged. And as others have also argued earlier, even if having multiple RFCs is possible, it's not very useful, and the new RFC seems to discourage further discussion about improving the lead introduction. So preventing multiple RFCs (and also a RFC about an issue debated not too long ago) does not look to me like evidence of bad faith intentions. Cody7777777 (talk) 21:37, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Cody, would you mind linking me to the previous RfC on splitting? m.o.p 21:49, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- The previous attempt to split the article can be found here. Cody7777777 (talk) 21:55, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Response
Yes, it does. Thanks, m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Dear User:Master of Puppets, I just noticed that User:Binksternet started another RfC while a current one is occurring. Is this appropriate? I reverted the addition motioning for one until your response is confirmed. If it is acceptable, then I apologize and will revert my edit. I look forward to your response. With regards, AnupamTalk 15:14, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'll form my reply on ANI. m.o.p 17:12, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- When you do please take into account my comment just above, regarding Anupam's edit warring to remove talk page comments (namely these RfCs) posted by others on the talk page. If you still don't think this is WP:OWN then clearly other administrators are needed here.Griswaldo (talk) 17:15, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Dear User:Griswaldo, how is going to a neutral mediator to address the issue owning the article? I acknowledge that the article is in dispute and as a result, I am asking an administrator for advice in this matter, NOT handling things on my own, as you have done by edit warring. Your WP:OWN allegations have not only been dismissed by this administrator, but by several other users, including, User:Lionelt, User:Cody7777777 and User:NYyankees51. Thanks, AnupamTalk 17:27, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- In reply to Griswaldo: reverting the RfCs was a mistake, but we've cleared that up now. As Anupam has stated at ANI, the intent was not to discourage discussion. If you think my judgment is compromised, you're welcome to seek another administrator's input. m.o.p 21:04, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- And as further evidence of WP:OWN, see this. Anupam adds a comment to everything that anyone else says, as if he/she is the owner of the article and everyone else is a subordinate contributor. This particular instance is pretty benign (although it clutters up the talk page with an unnecessary comment that merely says "I agree"), but I do think that Anupam at least needs to learn how to avoid giving the appearance of thinking he/she owns the article, and to desist from chipping in and saying the same thing over and over again, which almost makes meaningful discussion impossible! SNALWIBMA ( talk - contribs ) 17:31, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- While the input is appreciated, as I've said before, making allegations of ownership without hard evidence isn't going to get us anywhere. Anupam is not stopping others from discussing changes or forming consensus, and that's all that matters - refactoring the talk page or commenting on an issue is not against policy, and I'm not going to tell someone to stop editing because it "looks" like they're doing something wrong. As said above, you're welcome to request another administrator's insight if you wish. m.o.p 21:04, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
COIHi
you've helped me out before, with a conflict of interest problem, so having much more experience than me on wikipedia, I thought I would be bold enough to ask again for help.
Similar problem to last, User_talk:Hobbycraft is editing the HOBBYCRAFT article and making changes that aren't citably right. I think the user name suggest and history suggests a conflict of interest case.
Can you please, speak to them addressing this issue.
Thank you very much for your help.
Markcoulter50 (talk) 22:27, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
- I've blocked that user for username violations. Thanks a lot for letting me know! Keep up the great work, m.o.p 23:00, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkbackcausa sui (talk) 18:47, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Hello. You have a new message at causa sui's talk page. causa sui (talk) 20:54, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Problematic editing on militant atheism
- I hope it's not considered defamatory to repeat the final line: "I merely present the diffs above, and let others draw their own conclusions. Is this a duck? Does it quack? You decide.". Unfortunately, the concerned community no longer has that opportunity. What did you decide on their behalf? Does this duck quack, or not? bobrayner (talk) 15:42, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- It's not your wording, it's the very idea of it. Going to what's allegorically a public place and shouting, "Hey, everybody, this man is a criminal!" is one step below blatantly forming a lynch mob. As I've said, I have no problem with your wording or evidence, just your location of choice. Wikipedia is not, unfortunately, a democracy - letting others draw their conclusions and voice their opinions is not how a sockpuppet investigation works.
- So yes, please don't go restoring any of that section. We're not discussing editors, we're discussing the content they produce. Anything else has a sub-board to deal with it (like WP:SPI).
- Hopefully that clears things up! I'll be happy to answer any more questions should you have them. Cheers, m.o.p 15:48, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Hello User:Bobrayner, I noticed the section you created on the militant atheism talk page. If you do feel the way you do about User:Turnsalso and the anonymous IP Addresses, you can take this up with WP:SPI. Thanks, AnupamTalk 15:52, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
Are you kidding my MoP? Above your write: Going to what's allegorically a public place and shouting, "Hey, everybody, this man is a criminal!" is one step below blatantly forming a lynch mob. AND We're not discussing editors, we're discussing the content they produce. Yet you call this edit by Lionelt "good faith," at WQA? MoP, I would not ask you to agree with me or to like me, but can I please ask you not to insult me with these double standards.Griswaldo (talk) 16:18, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
]
- Griswaldo, I mean no offense when I say this, but I'd appreciate it if you stayed out of discussions which didn't involve you. Also, please don't put words in my mouth. Thanks, m.o.p 16:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I have not put words in your mouth. You said that you would assume good faith about Lionel. If you "assume good faith" it means you assume his edits were in "good faith." If you did not intend that meaning I suggest you reconsider what you wrote. Also, if you want me to "stay out of discussion which don't involve me" then I suggest your first order of business should be to do the same thing yourself. You decided to post at WQA, when there was no mention of you or anything you've done in that thread. Once again, I expect people not to practice double standards. So as long as you cannot show me that you will treat me as you ask to be treated yourself, I will not oblige you. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:21, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Please stop bickering. I'm not quite sure what you're trying to accomplish here. I've already explained what I meant when I said assuming good faith, but I'll explain again: I assumed that Lionelt was not hounding or deliberately haranguing you. I did not say, at any point, that his edit content was good faith, and I've told him not to edit like that again. So please stop accusing me of saying things I haven't said.
- Also, I posted in WQA because, as a mediator in this case and as an administrator, it's my duty to weigh in on administrative noticeboards, especially when the case is an ongoing discussion I've been participating in for three months. It is not your duty to weigh in on discussions on my talk page that don't concern you. I hope the distinction is clear here. m.o.p 20:33, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I think you are confused about something. Content is never good faith. "Editing in good faith" and "good faith edits" refers to the intent of the editor always. It has nothing to do with content. My assumption that you also felt the edits were appropriate comes from the fact that you did not say they weren't appropriate and clearly feel that his intentions were good. If you'd like to set the record straight on that issue you still can. I've asked you twice now to discuss the actual edits that are the focal point of the thread. Also, I moved the thread to ANI, per the suggestion of the editor who marked it "resolved."Griswaldo (talk) 20:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- See Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#User:Lionelt_--_following_my_past_edits_to_drum_up_support_against_me. FYI, I copy pasted the entire discussion because both you and Collect were critical of my initial post and I thought it was the right thing to do to preserve that criticism in the record of the conversation. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:43, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- In reply to your first paragraph: I'm going to give up now, as it seems you're misunderstanding most of what I type, but you're the one who stated that the content was not good faith (as you said, not appropriate), and I agreed - I referred to his intent in replying to you, and said that I assumed good faith in his motives, not his replies. I can't really say that in a clearer way, so my apologies if it's hard to understand. Also, as I've already said, I've left a message for Lionelt about his edits, so clearly I do not feel they're appropriate. m.o.p 20:57, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I, too, find these double standards vexing.
- Which diff is defamatory?
- I had hitherto thought that people on the article talkpage might like to be aware of potential problems with votestacking on the article talkpage (and 3rr evasion, of course). Would it be permitted to add a link to that list of diffs when it's in a different place, or would you consider that defamatory too? bobrayner (talk) 16:23, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- As I said, the information is not defamatory, but the way it's presented is - we have specific processes available to pursue should one feel there are sockpuppets about. However, calling someone out with the intent of informing the community is overstepping your authority and damaging to the accused's character. Also, there's no way a community discussion about whether or not one editor is a sockpuppet can end in anything other than a sockpuppet investigation anyway.
- So, in closing, please don't bring issues like this to the talk page. If you're concerned about votestacking, take it to the appropriate venue - if your concerns are validated, we'll take measures against said puppets. Cheers, m.o.p 16:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I am very disappointed that it's no longer permissible to raise problems with article-editing on the article talkpage. Previous concerns about sockpuppetry were simply ignored; the difference this time is that it's backed by lots of diffs.
- I'm fairly confident that the people concerned have sufficient technical nous to make checkuser draw a blank. And, let's be entirely honest, within minutes of me creating an SPI, an admin of the right persuasion will be getting an email suggesting that an SPI needs their attention. And SPI does not see offsite coordination by a facebook group &c. Finally, any null result at SPI will be used at the article in much the same way as previous administrative decisions have been. So, I do not believe that an SPI will improve either the article, or the encyclopædia as a whole. bobrayner (talk) 17:08, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- If you don't think the pre-existing methods set in place for situations like this are sufficient, you can always raise that concern at the village pump or suggest a policy revision - however, SPI is the venue for these requests, and the only venue. The talk page can not substitute. m.o.p 17:10, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
76.228.226.122Thank you for blocking the anonymous user, who is being counterproductive and rude. (although I think the block should have been one week, but I guess ok at least)
Can you also please try to hide the edit summaries of these edits if possible?
This and
this
Thanks and regards, talk 05:04, 26 September 2011 (UTC)]
- I'll extend the block if this behaviour continues after the block period is over.
- As for the edit summaries, those don't warrant hiding - I apologize for their content, but they don't meet the criteria of what I should remove. It's best just to ignore them for now. Cheers, m.o.p 05:13, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
- Okay, good to know, if I did nothing wrong, no permanent block will be enforced. The IP does not volunteer on WP as an admin and so the disproportionately out of line comments and threats of his should be ignored. --talk 05:19, 26 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Sounds good. We only hide extremely offensive revisions; milder ones stay in the edit history. Thanks again for bringing this to our attention! Cheers, m.o.p 05:31, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
Email
Jasper Deng (talk) 05:29, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
- Reading. talk) 06:00, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Bad Girls Club
- I've blocked Junebea for 2 days for disregarding warnings. m.o.p 20:30, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks for helping :) Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 21:06, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkback
- And again.Griswaldo (talk) 04:24, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
- And again ... but maybe the last. You can settle this question once and for all. See the talk page.Griswaldo (talk) 06:09, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'm sure I'm not alone in wanting to hear your replies to the last responses posed to you at that page. IMO, I don't know why you went down the road you did, but as far as I can tell you're blatantly misrepesenting facts about your own actions when people are brining concerns to you. You might think that since you closed the RfC the matter is settled, but it is not. You're actions have not made my life any more pleasant in the last few days vis-a-vis trying to deal with Anupam's disruption and I think you owe us all answers. So please revisit this thread and deal with the open questions. Thanks.Griswaldo (talk) 02:19, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
- I invite you to stop asking the same question again and again. This would be appreciated. Thanks, m.o.p 02:33, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Block question
- No, I just block obviously bad-faith accounts on sight. Advertising/spam accounts fall under that category. m.o.p 00:37, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Thanks
- Thank you. I've unlocked the article for whatever may come. If I'm needed again, feel free to let me know. Thanks for the kind words again, m.o.p 05:12, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
reminder
- We're still waiting to see if the user understands COI policy (per Ed's question). I'll prod the user and see if they'll answer. talk) 19:20, 30 September 2011 (UTC)]
Nextel logo deleted
- Mmm, good point. What's the link to the logo in question? m.o.p 01:33, 2 October 2011 (UTC)
Support of Sage City SymphonyYou deleted this page before I had a chance to go back in and add the stuff that you wanted to see, including the links within Wikipedia to important composers such as Lou Callabro (who started this orchestra and cites it in his Wikipedia page) and Susan Hurley whose work we premiered (SC is also mentioned in her Wikipedia entry). (Let alone links about the works we have performed.) And we have a web site at www.sagecitysymphony.org, have existed for over 35 yrs and are a significant cultural resource in the Bennington area such that we receive grants from local, statewide and national foundations.
I broke my wrist last weekend and am doing one-handed pecking so it'll take me a few days to get that loaded in. We are going out for a bit now, but I would appreciate your undeleting the page so that I don't have to re-invent the starting part when I go back in tomorrow to add links. Or delete it entirely so that I can start fresh - at this point either would work as long as I can start some serious work on it tomorrow. I am the webmaster by the way, so I do have access to content and more links.
Thank you, Celia Murray — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.228.127.119 (talk) 14:22, 1 October 2011 (UTC)
- It looks like fixed everything up. Best of luck, m.o.p 01:35, 2 October 2011 (UTC)]
Reply on Deterence's talk page
MA
After the beating you took you deserve a cold one--on me! Thanks for being fair and balanced – Lionel (talk) 03:55, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
- Hey, thanks! Glad to help out. :) m.o.p 03:56, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
Deletion of Mau5trap Recordings
--neocharles (talk) 07:33, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Existence does not equal notability - the subject has to be notable to get a Wikipedia page. m.o.p 12:05, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
Questoin re: AIV
- Addendum, actually, I read it very clearly in WP:VANDNOT: "Uploading or using material on Wikipedia in violation of Wikipedia's copyright policies is prohibited, but is not vandalism unless the user does so maliciously or fails to heed warnings." So if a person fails to heed warnings it is vandalism. My mistake here was that I only warned once. --Muhandes (talk) 12:29, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Eh, technically it is vandalism, but the user seems to be trying to improve the Wikipedia - that desire to help is misplaced in this case, as they seem to think that using copyrighted content is actually better. Weird. For most cases, yes, you should report copyvio to AIV - as long as they've been warned sufficiently. m.o.p 12:42, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- OK, he now did it again and the time stamp is after your last warning. Is it vandalism now? --Muhandes (talk) 12:32, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Yeah, if they're outright ignoring warnings. I've blocked for three days. m.o.p 12:40, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
Classmusic
- Oh, I know. But if somebody's lied to my face about using another account - and to other editors working on the article - I'm not about to let them go without a repercussion or two. I'd like Almost-instinct and Voceditnore to look over the article and fix up anything shifty. Also, I'd like Classmusic to respond to my warning, instead of blanking it and ignoring like they have to the above-named editors.
- So, in short, I know that COI doesn't bar editing, but it's enough of a concern that, given the user's recent behaviour, I'll stop them from doing anything until we've figured things out. This isn't too rouge-y, is it? I didn't hear that. Perhaps he is unaware of the sockpuppet investigation findings. Anyhow it seems that DeltaQuad has also blocked the Classmusic account. I left a note on his page about using the unblock template, but re-iterated that he needs to read the COI and Autobiography guidelines and stick to them scrupulously, if he gets unblocked. In the Opera and Classical Music WikiProjects, we get a lot of articles for performers, ensembles, etc. created by their agents and PR people, and often themselves. In my experience, the best I can hope for after one of these tussles is that they'll edit their article according to the guidelines in future. I have yet to find a single one who has ever contributed anything else to Wikipedia. Their only interest in the project is as a PR tool. Having said that, at least it results (after much red-pencilling from other editors) in one new article on a notable subject that we didn't have before and in a small way redresses the pop culture systemic bias here. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 13:40, 5 October 2011 (UTC)]
Danish election
- Never mind, it's been pulled by another admin. All the best, Jenks24 (talk) 11:03, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry about that! I was busy all day and didn't get your message until now. Thanks for letting me know, though! Cheers, m.o.p 19:51, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
3RRHey there! :)
Well WP:CRYSTAL has wined down, however, there's currently a
The Bad Girls Club (season 7). I have notified the two users [32], [33]. The evidence can be found here. They are having an edit-conflict on how the "Duration of cast" should be presented. Since there's no rules regarding anything like that, and it was made up about a year ago, I couldn't warned them to stop their e/c with anything except the 3RR rule. Maybe they need an admin to tell them to stop, so that's why I came to you :) Thanks, Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 01:17, 6 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Temporary page protection requested. Calabe1992 (talk) 01:29, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
- One month of pending changes is better, I think. I don't like limiting legitimate editors, but this will disallow further warring from disrupting the 'pedia. m.o.p 07:10, 12 February 2011 (UTC)
Deletion of Gabriel Weinberg
- It wasn't my decision to delete the article. We had clear community consensus. Please stop taking thins personally. m.o.p 07:10, 12 February 2011 (UTC)
Edit summariesActually user:Zjarriretues is removing a reliable source [[1]] that mentions his ethnicity and places another that's more suitable to his national standarts. Although the source Zjarri. prefers is also 'rs' he did not disagree in the article's talkpage with my version [[2]].
Unfortunately when a couple of months passed you prefered to make his revert per
wp:ninja, without explaining the reason of this (very) delayed revert.Alexikoua (talk) 17:03, 14 February 2011 (UTC)]
I reverted myself, however, an explanation is needed in the talkpage by the user since he agreed in the past with the version I've presented on Aug..Alexikoua (talk) 17:14, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
Your friend the the IP
sent you an email
- One of your userboxes says you're only 17! I would have sworn you were older than that! ; ) --Kenatipo speak! 23:40, 16 February 2011 (UTC)
Godzilla
- I feel that it doesn't. If you check our crystal ball policy, you'll notice that it says, "It is appropriate to report discussion and arguments about the prospects for success of future proposals and projects or whether some development will occur, if discussion is properly referenced." That policy is meant to stop unsourced conjecture and speculation by editors, so I think we're fine in this case. The Hobbit film project with all its troubles). Here, with Godzilla, the reports are extremely normal. The studio announces its plans for a film, and a director is attached for it (which is not a guarantee). That's what it boils down to, and it's not enough to be more than a news source. Erik (talk | contribs) 16:11, 17 February 2011 (UTC)
- I appreciate that you've explained your position to me (though I did read your points in the AFD thread) but I can't delve into stuff like this. If you're not happy with my close, you're fully welcome to ask another administrator or even open another AFD. m.o.p 16:15, 17 February 2011 (UTC)
- I won't do anything for now. I would just prefer to keep such articles a rarity. Following films for some time, a lot of people tend to create an article about a film the moment it is announced (or the moment something new happens, like a new director). I do like to report discussion (did so at Concrete Island) but it's more a matter of where for me, to ensure topics of enduring notability. I did want to ask, do you think a merge discussion in general would be more beneficial? I feel like an AFD like that foments a keep-or-delete mentality that overrides the in-between solution of reporting discussion under a broader article until we can be near certain a film will exist. Erik (talk | contribs) 16:21, 17 February 2011 (UTC)
- A merge discussion would be great; I could weigh in and such. Feel free to open one up if you'd like to. m.o.p 23:03, 17 February 2011 (UTC)
]
Please respond
userspace
Talkback 16:14, 19 February 2011 (UTC)
Protect my talk page
- Lately, this IP also misused the edit war template on my talk page.Jasper Deng (talk) 00:37, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
Block an IP
E-Mail
nice guyhiii master of puppets,
ok do u know the movie Twilght saga ?
rply me back i want 2 talk 2 u a lot because i like ur pesonalty.BY
talk) 11:58, 28 April 2011 (UTC)]
File source problem with File:MoPuppetarmy.pngThank you for uploading File:MoPuppetarmy.png. I noticed that the file's description page currently doesn't specify who created the content, so the copyright status is unclear. If you did not create this file yourself, you will need to specify the owner of the copyright. If you obtained it from a website, please add a link to the website from which it was taken, together with a brief restatement of that website's terms of use of its content. However, if the copyright holder is a party unaffiliated from the website's publisher, that copyright should also be acknowledged.
If you have uploaded other files, consider verifying that you have specified sources for those files as well. You can find a list of files you have created in your upload log. Unsourced and untagged images may be deleted one week after they have been tagged per Wikipedia's criteria for speedy deletion, F4. If the image is copyrighted and non-free, the image will be deleted 48 hours after 11:44, 11 May 2011 (UTC) per speedy deletion criterion F7. If the file is already gone, you can still make a request for undeletion and ask for a chance to fix the problem. You may wish to read the Wikipedia's image use policy. If you have any questions or are in need of assistance please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. Magog the Ogre (talk) 11:44, 11 May 2011 (UTC)
The Deputy
- Thanks for your reply. My concern was not that Jayjg indicated he would rewrite and did not do so, but that he had agreed to allow more of the disputed section in the article rather than a dismissive sentence or two, but when editors began to delete the entire section based on frivolous reasons, he supported it. It appears now that we have, or are in the process of reaching a resolution. The section is now in the article, reduced substantially to account of Jayjg's concers about undue weight. Mamalujo (talk) 18:40, 27 May 2011 (UTC)
Carla Rushing page deletion
Any further discussion of Sarah Palin will result in a warning, and then a temporary block. Thank you!Hmmm, that might be just a tad excessive. We don't want to suppress all discussion, because that's when the pressure has nowhere to go, and people will go and meatball:ExpandScope.
Since scope is already expanded to international media, forcing scope to expand further might be a bit of a Bad Idea (tm). I recommend Not Going There.
If we're really intent on keeping discussions off of WP, we can always create a wikinews article, and link to the "discuss this article" page.
However, at the moment, people seem to be keeping it down to a dull roar anyway.
--Kim Bruning (talk) 22:44, 6 June 2011 (UTC)
- I think you caught my side point, but I'd like to stress the part I'm trying to tell you to watch out for!
- Long term empirical experience shows that attempts to curtail discussion on wikipedia will not slow down the internet discussion elsewhere (or even on wikipedia). Instead, that's exactly what will feed it more and more steam. So Don't Do That.
- Experience shows that the following approaches work:
- Try to centralize all (spurious) discussion in one place
- keep it as focused on encyclopedic work as possible.
- Treat the new users like new users. They don't know our rules yet. Teach them!
- The foundation would like to see us be more welcoming towards new users. That's a good idea! Let's do that.
- --Kim Bruning (talk) 00:26, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
- And... it went to AN/I (see below) --Kim Bruning (talk) 01:33, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
Edit Notice on Paul RevereYou seem to be asserting some admin right to quench discussion on the talk page by blocking and/or warning with the editnotice that I don't think we have, by policy. IAR doesn't cover stomping on people, no matter how annoying a particular conversation is.
Kelly started a
WP:ANI discussion on this.
Followups probably best on ANI as I am sure others will want to comment. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 01:15, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
- On review - I'm going to blank the edit notice now. If an ANI consensus develops to support restoring it then I'll not object at all, but I think it's novel and enough of a stretch that the default should be "no" unless consensus develops otherwise. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 01:19, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
How does a user find a mentor?
Helen Lucy Burke
Talkback
I did what you asked but the IP reverted it again. PTJoshua (talk) 21:09, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
- You're removing everything I say. Please don't do this. It isn't helpful. --86.45.75.42 (talk) 21:19, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
- I'll talk to them. Sit tight for a second. m.o.p 21:10, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
RE: Deletion of 48gogreen page :ApalejaHello,
Thank you for quick response. I appreciate your reason. but if you do some research you'll find more then 4 or 5 substantial mentions in local or international media - in a newspaper, on a notable website, etc. - to put forward this article.
There is a link on official website of company. http://www.48gogreen.com/static/web
Looking forward for your response. thank you in advance to undelete article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Apaleja (talk • contribs) 08:03, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
Here are some articles from International Press (you can use Google translator-if you use chrome it'll provide option immediately):
http://www.regione.emilia-romagna.it/wcm/cinema/sezioni_primopiano/PrimoPiano/Gadoev.htm
http://domani.arcoiris.tv/girano-un-corto-in-48-ore-e-arrivano-dritti-a-cannes/
http://www.close-up.it/spip.php?article6724
http://www.flashvideo.it/news/9/2578/
http://www.radioemiliaromagna.it/cultura/cinema/videomaker_bolognesi_cannes_corto_ecologico.aspx
Also if YOU HAD READ careful our site you should have see the Press link (those are press links not blogs) with all these web press: http://www.48gogreen.com/static/web
Thank you — Preceding unsigned comment added by Apaleja (talk • contribs) 08:22, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
Final warning On Edit Warring of Efik language disputeIf My Reporting a false article is the reason you want to block me. Then Go ahead and BLOCK me.- I can be Block because I don't care to be part of a web/Encyclopedia of Lies! Although I have contributed anonymously to wikipedia since 2008, I only just signed on a few weeks ago to report an error that I thought was made. But you and your other BIASED administrators have refused to fix this error, instead you're all threatening to block me.
- : According to Wikipedia A false statement/article is removed immediatley it is realized. Yet as am reporting it you all are threatening me for causing disruption.
- You all are saying that I called I called Kwami Slow, Dumb etc. Yet Kwami used the words Ignorance first.
"As for Ukwa, your ignorance is not evidence of anything".
- What is the meaning of IGNORANCE? S/He also said;
"But we cannot have the same article under two names, nor an article on Ibibio-Efik that does not include Ibibio, nor an article on Efik that does not include Efik. A little common sense would be helpful."
- What is meaning of Common sense? Or because Kwami put it very nicely, and mine wasn't? Also I wasn't blanking the Efik page, since I just signed on it takes me a long while to write up an article. According to the statements above, Kwami said I could develop articles on Efik and Ibibio, that is what I was doing when you or your other BIASED administrators returned the articles back to the re-direct.
- : Since wikipedia says a false statement is fixed immediately it is reported, I explained out the mistakes, but Kwami kept insisting that me a native who speaks these languages was wrong and asked for sources. I provided the sources and Kwami Called A brilliant Historian who is a Million times more knowledgable than Kwami on the language;
"utterly ignorant AND not some random idiot who posted a web page".
- Yet you and your other Biased colleges are claiming that am the one attacking Kwami and causing a disruption.
- : Am done with Wikipedia, am going to be taking this issues to the Founder/head by email, once the Ibibio union are involved it might become a legal matter if Wikipedia still continues to portray this misleading information.
I will take this matter to the heads by Email first because they might not be aware of what you all supposed administrators are doing to their image. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ibibiogrl (talk • contribs) 21:41, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
Hi Mops,
Pls read my comments on the ANI page. I think Ibibiogrl means well, she just needs some guidance, and she's not willing to take it from me. — kwami (talk) 22:17, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
- Obviously we would like to have contributors from that part of the world, but Ibibiogrl's record here is so unpromising that I think we need good assurances that something will change in the future. (I would welcome any evidence that Ibibiogrl means well. It is hard to improve the encyclopedia when you have no interest in or respect for its policies. Read her statement above if you are uncertain about that). Mentorship has value only for someone who understands that something has gone wrong and would be willing to work with a mentor. EdJohnston (talk) 22:46, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
- I agree with Ed in this case - I have no grudge against Ibibiogrl, but the editor's attitude, despite multiple pleas for otherwise, remained combative and even insulting at points. If there's a serious expression of guilt and the editor decides they'd like to walk a different path, I'd be happy to help. However, as it is now, I believe the block should stand. m.o.p 22:52, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
- I agree that it would require some indication that she wants help. Just my 2¢ as the person she's most upset with. — kwami (talk) 23:05, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
- For the record, your input is highly appreciated, and very admirable; as the editor in conflict with her, I respect your neutrality and helpfulness. As for Ibibiogrl, we'll see where that goes. Cheers! m.o.p 00:59, 17 June 2011 (UTC)
Can you adopt me i want a new adopter.
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Mr. Pit (2nd nomination)
This isn't personalI belive the AFD on Campaign for "santorum" neologism was closed way to early and am contesting your close.
An editor has asked for a deletion review of Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2011 June 21. Because you closed the deletion discussion for this page, speedily deleted it, or otherwise were interested in the page, you might want to participate in the deletion review. KoshVorlon' Naluboutes Aeria Gloris 12:17, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
James Ball
Thank you for your concern. But I will not be blocked - _I am adding_ wikipedia to adblock. I also feel regret for having donated to the site before, but this will not happen again. Demonuminon (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 23:25, 23 June 2011 (UTC).
Thomas James BallWhy the hell did you delete his page?
Does his suffering mean nothing to you?
Heartless bitch. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.57.206.141 (talk • contribs)
Hey, Master of Puppets, OBVIOUSLY there is a public interested in keeping this article. Restore your deletion. Look at the massive flood of comments regarding your deletion here: http://www.<linkremoved>.com/2011/06/24/the-organized-silencing-of-a-man-publicly-burned-to-death/ and here http://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/i81rw/the_organized_silencing_of_a_man_publicly_burned/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Romerom (talk • contribs) 20:05, 24 June 2011 (UTC)
- Ball HIT A FOUR-YEAR-OLD CHILD, refused to pay child support, called for insurrection, demanded terrorism and violence as a solution, ultimately killed himself (leaving his children without a father) and damaged public property in the process. Even after all that, his incoherent message has mostly been ignored except by the less discriminating people claiming to speak for "men's rights" who haven't bothered to look into the details of his case. (If you really want to damage your cause, adopt a grown man who hits his own four-year-old child and flakes out on his child support as your poster boy.) --Orange Mike | Talk 20:26, 24 June 2011 (UTC) (proud father who has never hit his child in his lifetime)
Hey, "proud father who never hit his child in his lifetime", not everybody is against disciplining their children by spanking. He said his daughter was licking his hand, and he had told her repeatedly to stop. She didn't, and he smacked her. He didn't punch her, or send her to the hospital, or cause any serious injury. Just enough to have his wife baited into calling the police on him by child protective services. As for child support, he paid his child support until the point where he wasn't able to afford it due to an employment issue. Is that such a crazy thing to have happen? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.211.155.1 (talk) 04:28, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
- Again, while I do sympathize with the family and supporters, I am not taking sides, nor do I have any bias in this situation. I am not a feminist, nor am I a misogynist - I am fair and neutral towards all people, whether they be abusive fathers or abused fathers.
- This deletion was enforced solely in keeping with Wikipedia's long-established policies. Mr. Ball's death, while indeed tragic, was not reported throughout the reliable media enough to show his notability.
- I hope this makes sense to all those saddened by Mr. Ball's passing. Cheers, m.o.p 21:04, 24 June 2011 (UTC)
- I understand that you do not think that Mr. Ball's death is something that qualifies as an event and thus deleted said article. I disagree but I do see the merits of your argument. However, you claim to be unbiased in this debate and yet for someone who judges on the letter of the law you break the law and close debate 2.5 days before final judgment is to be rendered. If you have no corner then I ask why make this article a special case that it must be quelled , by your own admission, 2.5 days before any other articles found in similar circumstances are voted upon. I petition you to reinstate and allow the normal course of the discussion continue for the 2.5 days, allow the full opportunity for the pro side to make their case then recluse yourself from the final judgment. This is the only way to ensure transparency so that your claim of neutrality can be believed. CaffOMHW (talk) 03:28, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
- Ahead of things, let me tell you that I appreciate the civility.
- Wikipedia's policies aren't law - they're guidelines. As an administrator, it's my job to apply policy in a way that is completely devoid of bias and benefits the encyclopedia as a whole.
- On a side note, the deletion nomination was closed 1.5 days before the normal time. The page had a whole work week to be saved, rewritten or reworked; however, due to the lack of outside sourcing that carried reliability, there was nothing to keep that wasn't editorialized or unencyclopedic. I would also like to point out that almost every account that voiced their opinion in the 'keep' spectrum had either only edited that page or had edited very little aside from the page. Meanwhile, the deletion argument was put forward by experienced users.
- Though I understand that some people take offense to my early closure, I assure them that one extra day would not have yielded success, and that I took many factors into consideration before closing the discussion.
- Again, thank you for the civility, but I won't be overturning judgment or recreating a deletion discussion at this date. m.o.p 08:17, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
ITNthx for the 2 quick updates of my nom ;)
but also can you see the bolivia one. its got support and very nearly out of the news. we could tack it nearer the border.Lihaas (talk) 22:26, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
Ball closure.
Thank God you are an ambassador for WP, and against censorship, MoP. When Wikipedia fails, and it eventually will, it will largely be because most people don't like to be gamed and would rather not read well cultivated information that is maintained by dishonest brokers who hide behind rules that are never applied in an even-handed manner. The idea that a story is not relevant merely because it is not yet encyclopedic is ridiculous when one sees all the articles which linger on for months or years in the same state. The idea that a story is not relevant because the motivations/justifications of the user are suspect would be grounds for eliminating half the biographical articles in WP. It smacks of an agenda. The appearance of impropriety is as bad as actual impropriety.173.78.20.96 (talk) 04:51, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
- I appreciate the feedback.
- I do my best to maintain an equal, proportionate response in all dealings on Wikipedia; I don't defend things I like, or attack things I dislike, just for the reason of screwing with people. That strikes me as childish. Instead, the most I can do is try to help others understand Wikipedia policies, which are generally mind-bending and hard to grasp (for example, most people ask, "What's the reasoning a war hero isn't considered notable when Donkey Kong is?").
- Maybe one day the policies will change. I mean, most of these were written five, six year ago - the world's changing, and I expect they will with time. But, for now, the guidelines handle what comes in.
- Again, thanks for the input. I appreciate not being personally attacked - it makes it easier to reply. Cheers, m.o.p 05:08, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Natami (2nd nomination)
- The close was thoroughly thought-out, so there's not much ground for me to explore that I haven't already. If you're set on going to DRV, there's nothing I can say which will change your mind, and it's your right to ask for a review. However, current consensus sits at delete (unless the 'keep' side is hiding an ace-in-the-hole reliable source or something). Cheers, m.o.p 04:55, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- So, what about the reliable sources we already brought up in the AfD such as this interview in Amiga Future or this news article from nr2.ru? We've already established that Amiga Future isn't sponsored by a hardware company as one !voter there falsely claimed. On a related note, did you discount the !votes from individuals making misleading statements or those claiming there were "no independent reliable sources"? (I could tell you how that !voter happened to show up there, but he isn't going to like it.) I could also link to forum posts by another delete !voter who showed up there who was very much into a "delete at any cost" mode because he doesn't like "amiga clones". --Tothwolf (talk) 05:11, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- Those sources were there before the previous close, and I, like the previous administrator, do not think they're strong enough.
- I've already covered what kind of rationale was discounted and what wasn't.
- As for your last statement about other editors - I'm not quite sure what your point is, but I don't think it's relevant. As I said, I've discounted any rationale that does not apply policy.
- Cheers, m.o.p 05:33, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- Uh, no...nr2.ru was only brought up in the second AfD. Strong enough is also an argument to be made in a !vote, not a closing statement. --Tothwolf (talk) 05:56, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- My apologies, the Russian source was indeed added after the first AfD. Still too shaky for a stand-alone article, though. Cheers, m.o.p 13:42, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- To follow up on my earlier comment, while I don't really want to get into an "X did this because of Y" sort of thing with regards to this AfD, there were a number of delete !voters who showed up there for personal reasons/vendettas/bias and/or who made false statements about sources. Despite the template at the top of the AfD, the second AfD also didn't suffer from the forum canvassing that the first did. One of the delete !voters actually came by way of the forum and first AfD and was trolling because of his personal dislike of Amiga clones. --Tothwolf (talk) 15:33, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
If they have valid, policy-based rationale, their personal motivation doesn't matter, solely for the reason that an encyclopedia based on liking or disliking things would crumble instantly. I'm sure some of the deletion crew could just-as-easily blame keep voters for being enthusiasts and fans of Natami - but that's not important. As a result, making allegations of personal bias is unnecessary. The help is appreciated, but there's nothing I can do with the information. m.o.p 15:39, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- It matters when someone makes false statements and tries to hide what they are doing behind policy. As for keeps, quite a number appear to be from well established editors who don't appear to be all that interested in Amiga topics. As for myself, I wasn't even aware of NatAmi until the first AfD and didn't even !vote in the first AfD since I thought it was pretty obvious it was headed for a no-consensus close. --Tothwolf (talk) 15:58, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- Again, if their rationale is grounded in policy, their motivation does not matter, simply because it's impossible to discern someone's intent through text, and because the second someone accuses another of favoritism/malicious intent the entire argument turns into a bunch of people shouting, "You're lying." That's why there's nothing I can do with your information in this case. Cheers, m.o.p 16:02, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- Apologies to you, M.O.P., for addressing another editor on your talk page, but I just wanted to jump in this conversation. Tothwolf, with no prejudice against you at all I strongly suggest you take this in perspective. There have been two AFDs and an ANI report over this article. The way you treated me on my talk page threatening DRV because I was a new administrator was, as I feel it, borderline harassing. That you canvassed two other administrators to talk to me was also a below the belt move. In good faith, I relisted the debate and it has closed again as delete. I strongly suggest taking the advice at WP:DGAF into account here and let the issue go. I don't think there will be a problem recreating this article, even pulling the old content back from the deletion log, when the subject has better sources in a broader community. I hold no ill feeling toward you, this is purely honest advice.--v/r - TP 16:46, 27 June 2011 (UTC)]
- TParis, while you are correct in that this talk page is not the place for this, because you brought this up here and you seem to value honest feedback, I'll address this here.
In no way did I ever threaten you with DRV, let alone because you were a new administrator (discussion in question). I did however upon noticing that you had passed RFA only days earlier decide it best not to press you further in public and instead sent you this short email: "Sigh. I just noticed you just finished your RFA. The Natami AfD was a bad AfD to pick to close right out of the gate. It is likely to end up at DRV and given the magazine I mentioned, overturned. I really wish you would reconsider your close. You might have noticed I didn't even !vote in the AfD itself, however I did point out a number of things and took a couple of people to task for making false or misleading statements." That is the only email I sent you about the matter and not once did I ever threaten you with DRV. Please get your facts correct before making statements such as this because such mistakes can have a negative effect on others.
After you replied expressing your disagreement over the sources (and implied that I might be biased because I sometimes contribute to computing-related articles) I asked a number of other administrators (way more than two, actually) what they thought of the AfD's close because I wanted unbiased feedback to see if I was somehow totally off-track before I initiated a DRV. The feedback I got was fairly unanimous in that the close was problematic. Before I had a chance to draft a DRV however, you reverted your own close and relisted the AfD from scratch with a new listing. In no way did I ever "canvass" anyone to "talk to you" and if others did contact you directly, they did so at their own discretion and for their own reasons.
There indeed have been two AfDs, the first of which you closed (although one could also argue that the second was merely a relist of the first). The AN/I "discussion" you also mentioned wasn't really over this article or the first AfD, it was an attempt by someone to game AN/I when they were unable to bully me on their talk page. Please be more careful making these sort of blanket statements in the future because as I mentioned above such statements can cause problems for others. --Tothwolf (talk) 17:38, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- You're email was exactly like your reply here. You like to make threats without actually making them: "such statements can cause problems". There is very little way your email cannot be interpreted as anything other than a threat of DRV because I am a new administrator. This is all I'll say on M.O.P.'s talk page as I came here to offer honest advice and you don't seem interested in it. If you'd like to discuss further with me, you know where to find my talk page.--v/r - TP 17:51, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- TParis, in no way did I ever make an implied threat. While I may be a little blunt and abrasive at times (or maybe I'm just an assume good faith in that you simply misremembered the facts I outlined above when you made this statement here. It is easy to forget a few details here or there and not everyone maintains detailed notes for this sort of stuff (I do, for a number of reasons, although I didn't always).
As far as honest advice goes, this is a two-way street and I gave you my opinion as well. If you choose to ignore and discount it, so be it, but I'd suggest you be much more careful in the future and get your facts correct before you make the sort of statement you made above. Such statements can and do cause problems for other editors. Who knows, it may just be that you've not been around long enough yet to have witnessed people blocked or punished in some way because someone else didn't have their facts together. (If you do decide you want to continue this discussion, perhaps we should take this elsewhere.) --Tothwolf (talk) 18:14, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
]
Heaton Park Hebrew Congregation (2nd nomination)
Natami
Thought you might want to know
- (talk page stalker) That's just the same little ideological website which has been pushing for the "Martyrdom of St. Thomas Ball" attention since day one; no actual new coverage. --Orange Mike | Talk 14:34, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
- I guess I should also mention that the way I found it, was that someone tried submitting it to Fark.com last night. The admins did not greenlight it, so that particular submission/thread did not go to the main Fark page, appearing only to those with Totalfark accounts. The submission said something like "Wikipedia deletes burning man" (I'm not at a computer with TF access so I might not have that exactly right). It might, theoretically, based on the submission, be considered some sort of off-site canvassing (it was submitted with the asinine tag). For what its worth, the thread went uncommented, so I don't think that particular attempt garnered any support. I just wanted to drop a line in case that this was just the first drop of a large storm. If I see anything else, I'll drop a line here. Umbralcorax (talk) 15:58, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
Wiki ad
4chan raid
Thomas James Bell, new information
- (reliable sources. --Orange Mike | Talk 13:33, 30 June 2011 (UTC)]
Happy Birthday
![](//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3d/Nuvola_apps_cookie.svg/50px-Nuvola_apps_cookie.svg.png)
Just a happy Birthday message to you, Master of Puppets, from the Wikipedia Birthday Committee! Have a great day!
Monterey Bay (talk) 02:00, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
User:BillyMoses
Natami
AFD
- Your input is appreciated, though there's nothing I can do with it but take a note. If you'd like, you can weigh in at the next AfD(s), when/if they arise. Cheers, m.o.p 19:42, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
Dr Myko San – Health from Mushrooms
- I'd be happy to help! However, I'm currently away from a computer (typing this on my phone), so I'll have to check in on the 11th of July. Does that sound okay? m.o.p 15:40, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
- wp:NODEADLINE :-) LeadSongDog come howl! 15:48, 7 July 2011 (UTC)]
From a former Wikipedian
-71.234.90.0 (talk) 04:50, 8 July 2011 (UTC)
- Hey, thanks so much! I'm not sure who you are, but I really appreciate the sentiment. Hope all is well! m.o.p 20:49, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
Deletion review for Thomas James Ball
DRV comment
DRV
Could you please overturn the deletion of these files per File:Signature of Amitabh Bachchan.svg and File:Signature of Zakir Hussain.svg:
- File:Signature of Vishwanathan Anand.svg
- File:Signature of Vijay Mallya.svg
- File:Signature of Venkaiah Naidu.svg
- File:Signature of Sudeep Bandhopadhyay.svg
- File:Signature of Sonia Gandhi.svg
- File:Signature of Somnath Chatterjee.svg
- File:Signature of Ratan Tata.svg
- File:Signature of Kumar Mangalam Birla.svg
- File:Signature of Rajeev Shukla.svg
- File:Signature of Raj Babbar.svg
- File:Signature of Rahul Gandhi.svg
- File:Signature of Priyanka Vadra.svg
- File:Signature of P. T. Usha.svg
- File:Signature of Narendra Modi.svg
- File:Signature of Nandan Nilekani.svg
- File:Signature of Manish Tewari.svg
- File:Signature of Leander Paes.svg
- File:Signature of Lata Mangeshkar.svg
- File:Signature of Kumar Mangalam Birla.svg
- File:Signature of Karia Munda.svg
- File:Signature of Kapil Sibal.svg
- File:Signature of Kamal Nath.svg
- File:Signature of K. Kamraj.svg
- File:Signature of Jaya Bachchan.svg
- File:Signature of Gautam Gambhir.svg
- File:Signature of Brinda Karat.svg
- File:Signature of Bharatsinh Solanki.svg
- File:Signature of Bhairon Singh Shekhawat.svg
- File:Signature of B. K. Birla.svg
- File:Signature of Azim Premji.svg
- File:Signature of Arun Jaitely.svg
- File:Signature of Aishwarya Rai Bachchan.svg
- File:Signature of Abhishek Manu Singhvi.svg
- File:Signature of Abhishek Bachchan.svg
- File:Signature of Sting.svg
- File:Signature of Br. L. D. Lobo.svg
- File:Signature of VJ Rannvijay Singh Singha.svg
Diligent07Appears to be less than new. See User talk:Raoulduke25 where he states that this is a deliberate series of edits.
- Can you please help defend our collective effort of including the obscene middle-finger incident in the Cheney Mason article? It should be maintained in the article for public interest, etc. Please see the Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard#Cheney Mason discussion page and include your thoughts in favor of having the content remain in the interests of the public, etc
[8], [9] and even imputation that an editor has a connection with the person [10]. He has been on since April, and started off as being experienced on WP IMHO. Kindly keep an eye out please. Especially for any sign of a real "collective effort"? Such as [11]? Cheers. Collect (talk) 11:36, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
A cookie for you!
Keep up the good work defending the "Wiki" against genre warriors. Thanks for the help! talk) 17:31, 13 July 2011 (UTC)]
Hello. You have a new message at Lionelt's talk page.
Semi protection
OK, this thing with the militant atheism page is impossibleThese guys are incredible... I could dig up diffs to show you how they revert and wikilawyer even the SMALLEST attempt to move the article closer to NPOV. But that would take a long time for you to read. How about I show you this instead:
These guys are utterly without scruples. Who in their right mind would remove the NPOV dispute tag when heated arguments have been raging for weeks and NO moves whatsoever have been made to fix the article? Oh right, that would be someone in their right mind who is running a propaganda platform.
Anyway... I wanted to ask your advice on what to do. These guys are impossible to work with. Most of the other editors have given up and refuse to put this page on their watchlist. So what to do then? Request formal mediation? Articles for deletion? Something else?
Me and the other editors would like to see the page replaced with a disambiguation page... since literally ALL the content has already been covered (better) in Criticism of atheism, State atheism and New Atheism.
Obhave (talk) 13:21, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
- Hello User:Master of Puppets. I noticed this conversation and thought I might add that an NPOV policy. Obhave (talk) 13:11, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
- One more thing, m.o.p... my opponents are currently twisting your words to make it look as if you were scolding user:Mann_jess all along. Obhave (talk) 14:42, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
]
User:Jasper Deng page protection
- No worries! m.o.p 19:35, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
Is there a procedure for brutal uncollaborated editing with a destructive intent?I noticed that you recently had problems with proposed brutal editing by Peter S Strempel. Although he has been more sensible on your project in the end (possibly because of your administrator status?) he has not been so with regard to the astrology project pages to which he made a similar 'razor-promise'. Could you please see this Afd request which is one of three he made for major 'history of astrology' articles within the last hour, with a promise on another important page that any comment which is not refrences within 7 days will be removed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Babylonian_astrology
Is there anything that can be done about this officially to stop him wreaking havoc with content whilst he knows that the small group of editors providing content on these pages are already stretched to the limit trying to keep up with what needs to be done? I don't understand what drives some people to want to edit WP like this, but I think it is entriely the result of his ego-stress that when he proposed an edit for a passage, no one favoured it. Hope you can help or advise Zac Δ talk 01:15, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks! assume good faith; I believe that Peter is simply trying to help improve Wikipedia. While his methods may be lacking in some areas, he has displayed a pretty decent grasp on the policies he's trying to enforce.
- However, I agree that he shouldn't be making any changes if they're not discussed with the community first. Do you mind pulling up a few diffs of where he went against consensus? I'll approach him with your concern then. Thanks, m.o.p 03:57, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
- Actually there hasn't been any significant content dispute with Peter. He proposed a change to a section edit which wasn't a very good proposition and a few editors commented but without rancur, and I added a new section post immediately afterwards to point out the proiposed change would contradict with how the definition was given correctly at a later point in the article, outlining how I understood WP policy expected the main astrology article to pull its own content together, along with its summarised content from its daughter pages. Peter never responded to this but other editors started working in that direction immediately. Then, without further discussion or comment, Peter came back four days later to announce an intention to take his 'word razor' to all unreferenced assertions on the main astrology page, its sub-pages, and the portal page itself, to ensure his perceived disagreement was not circumvented in pages he viewed as content forks (I'm still not sure what he means by that). My response to that can be seen - a perfectly reasonable request for him to do what he felt was most productive, but consider that citation-tagging was the way to go. I also placed comments on his talk-page, which you can read if you are interested. That he erupted into a frenzy of AfD requests last night says something, I think, about his unwillingness to discuss and engage in other views. Most of his posts appear as new section declarations that don't appear to have considered the responses other editors give him.
- I've summarised this in the ANI request Dougweller started. The deletion requests were a step too far IMO, and I'm concerned that Peter would spring to such drastic measures in reaction to what he perceives to be me not allowing him to do what he wants to do. I'll be away for a few days so I'm tying up my WP activity now. That underlines my concern that he intends to take such drastic action with only one week's notice of intent. Thanks for looking into this. It would be good if something could be proposed to stop huge problems before they occur. 10:35, 22 July 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zachariel (talk • contribs
)
- One last request. I have just noticed that a related complaint, which is quite serious but has been sidetracked (deliberatly IMO) by Peter's suggestions that I have prevented him from doing what he wants, has been collapsed as "going nowehere" by an unsympathetic editor.
- "Its ben here several days and no admin has even sniffed at a block or ban - clearly you're not going to get admin action. So this should got to WP:DR or WP:RFCU if you want to take it further. I've boldly collapsed this, though I won't be surprised if someone uncollapses it"
- If you can find the time could you at least take a look at that related problem, and consider uncollapsing it, because the issues are serious and have gone beyond the point where Dispute resolution are appropriate. I will be away and have nothing more to add, but the problems identified still remain. Zac Δ talk 10:58, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
What to do?
- I've started a threat at ANI. Those AfDs are purely pointy and if no one objects I'll close them. talk) 06:11, 22 July 2011 (UTC)]
- Replied there. m.o.p 08:20, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
Talk Page on Militant Atheism - Introduction Section
- The update is appreciated, thanks very much. I've been dealing with life for the past two weeks, but I'll be back to close that discussion tonight or tomorrow. Thanks again, m.o.p 22:03, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
- Just bringing this up again, given the current state of this section. I believe the discussion will be archived automatically if not closed. I'm sorry if I sound pushy with you having a lot on your plate of late. If you would prefer, I could alert User:Fastily instead. Turnsalso (talk) 16:55, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
ITN
- I knew that tab I closed had unfinished business on it... thanks. 2008 University of Central Arkansas shootings is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.
The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2008 University of Central Arkansas shootings(2nd nomination) until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on good quality evidence, and our policies and guidelines.
Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article.
talk 14:00, 1 September 2011 (UTC)]
Hey
- Done! Both your userpage and the transcluded page are protected. Cheers, « ₣M₣ » 04:09, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Restored. m.o.p 05:21, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
]
User talk:Joshua the Independent
- My mistake - my block script auto-filled the edit summary. The block was issued due to the user's newfound will to disrupt Wikipedia intentionally. Their previous contributions are welcome, but this behaviour necessitates administrative action. m.o.p 21:52, 13 September 2011 (UTC)
Say hi to your imaginary girlfriend for me
- Well, I do love getting hate mail. Thanks for the laugh! Cheers, m.o.p 05:17, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
...further to the above lovely note, I weighed in on Calabe's talk page - there appears to be more confusion here than at first glance. bou·le·var·dier (talk) 05:19, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
Sorry to drop by again, but Silentsizzlingsausage (talk · contribs) would appear to be a duck. bou·le·var·dier (talk) 05:31, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
- No, it's not an issue! Thanks for the note, blocked. Cheers, WP:SPI. Thanks again, m.o.p 06:13, 14 September 2011 (UTC)]
I have to admit ...
- See the above section. The link is apparently a very subtle spam link that Calabe is removing, and socks are springing up to revert him. Swarm u / t 10:20, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
Moderation
- Alright, I'll make my way back. Thanks for letting me know! m.o.p 05:18, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
User:12.139.96.228
- To be honest, this case is perplexing. Half of this user's edits are constructive (mostly sourced), the other half aren't sourced - and the user won't reply to anybody. I'm also too busy to go through every edit and confirm whether or not it's good. I forgot about this for a while - I'll think about it tonight and figure something out for tomorrow. Thanks for reminding me! m.o.p 05:18, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
Whoops
- Whoops! Must not have been looking when I ran my block script. Thanks for letting me know, I've reblocked them for a far shorter (technically, an infinitely shorter) time. Cheers, m.o.p 22:58, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
Ashleyleggat404
- You're fully right in that the blanking policy covers indefinite blocks. I've removed the user's talk page rights as a result. Thanks again! m.o.p 00:28, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkback
Moderation
- If you look into this please consider whether Anupam's actions on the talk page and the entry itself are violations of WP:OWN. He's been driving off those he disagrees with by bludgening them to death with argument and heavily policing the entry claiming that there is a consensus written in stone despite many dissenting voices. Others have taken to simply calling him "the article's owner." I have had enough of this behavior personally and left him a message about it on his talk page. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:52, 20 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Dear User:Master of Puppets, the above user has misrepresented the occurrences at the article. I started another Introduction discussion at the article's talk page but User:Griswaldo has chosen to edit war over a second NPOV tag, despite the fact that one already exists in the article. He has done so despite the fact that the Introduction is being discussed in a peaceful manner at the talk page, in violation of your injunction: "We've only got consensus on this proposed versions (and loose consensus at that) - please do not attempt to subvert said consensus by making undiscussed changes." I have posted a message on his talk page about this behaviour. Nevertheless, I also do not wish to argue with the user personally and would prefer if you could go back to moderating the discussion between the two parties at the talk page. Thanks for taking the time to read this message. With regards, AnupamTalk 20:58, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- His "injunction?" Adding a neutrality tag to a specific sentence which an editor disputes the neutrality of is hardly "subverting the consensus by making undiscussed changes." Please stop wikilawyering to get your way. There is a growing consensus against your position regarding this article in general as well, despite your aggressive policing of the entry and the talk page. See ]
- I just thought that I would mention that User:Griswaldo, after seeing this message, just now decided to comment in the discussion rather than edit war against consensus further. Thanks for taking the time to read this message. With regards, AnupamTalk 21:51, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- "Edit war against consensus further?" My comment there has nothing to do with your message here. I've made three total edits to this entry ever. One was a copy edit in June, another was reverting an IP vandal, and the third was the revert of your Ownership edit. Please do not insinuate that I'm a edit warrior on this page. It is disingenuous.Griswaldo (talk) 22:08, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Thank you all for approaching me with your concerns.
- Obviously, I do not support Anupam - this is because I'm remaining a neutral third party, and, therefore, can't take sides. However, Griswaldo: please keep in mind that I did ask for all discussion to take place on the talk page. Why not just add your complaints to the talk page? It would have been much easier to discuss.
- I do agree that adding a NPOV tag, while slightly redundant, isn't horrible, but your intent seems to have been to stir discussion on that particular section, discussion that would be much more appropriate on the talk page.
- As for your and Snalwibma's concerns of Anupam trying to 'own' the article, I'm curious as to what you two mean; what 'delusions'?
- Also, Griswaldo, I don't think Anupam meant to insinuate you are an edit warrior (though this is just my take) - rather, they wanted to add the note that you've weighed in on discussion. m.o.p 22:10, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- your intent seems to have been to stir discussion on that particular section - No that's incorrect. I didn't add this tag, I simply reverted Anupam's attempt to own the page when he removed it. I agreed with JimWae's addition of the tag and found Anupam's removal to be unwarranted and a display of ownership.Griswaldo (talk) 22:16, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Note that, for all intents and purposes, reverting somebody is adding whatever is included in your edit, regardless of who put it there first. You revert a removal, you're agreeing with the edition you're reverting to - simple.
- And, if you agreed with JimWae, then we go back to what I was saying earlier - say so on the talk page. Two of you agree? Great! That's closer to consensus. But it means nothing if you express your support by reverting removals.
- Again, as I've asked multiple times, please stop saying that Anupam is owning anything without giving me evidence of it first. m.o.p 22:22, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Dear User:Master of Puppets, thank you for your reply to all of us. The reason User:Snalwibma stated that I was attempting to "own" the article was because I reverted an undiscussed removal from the article, which not only myself, but two other users objected to. In fact, two anonymous IP Addresses also reverted User:Snalwibma. I was open to compromise on the issue and stated that I would accept User:Turnsalso's compromise on the issue. I kindly request you to look at that discussion yourself and get an honest reading of it. Also, the only reason I removed the second NPOV tag was because there was already one present, which I did not remove. I only reverted the addition of a second NPOV tag once and even explained myself on the talk page. When I went to the talk page, I found rude accusations and an anti-collaborative spirit, despite the fact that I have been nothing but polite. I hope this helps. With regards, AnupamTalk 22:25, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry - I know I should not rise to the bait, but I have to object to the comment "The reason User:Snalwibma stated that I was attempting to 'own' the article was because I reverted an undiscussed removal ..." How dare Anupam presume to know what is in my mind! The reason I describe Anupam's attitude to the article as one of ownership is because that is how s/he behaves - "policing" every edit, pronouncing on whether s/he "accepts" or "rejects" it, peremptorily reverting anything s/he does not like, without discussion, presuming to know others' motives, and judging them as fit/unfit to contribute to the article. This has been going on for weeks, if not months. It is impossible to discuss the content of the article, let alone improve the text, because everything is filtered through the approval/disapproval of the article's self-appointed guardian, Anupam. tendentious or disruptive when they bring up certain issues, even when they are clearly in the majority. That is not collaborative. I stopped editing the article heavily because of those issues. I don't have any delusions that my opinion is worth more than anyone else's here, but I would think that the large number of established, experienced editors who are all saying there's a problem, would indicate something. — Jess· Δ♥ 19:45, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
Please reconsider your full protection of Militant atheist
- In case you didn't notice, I asked that people think twice about pointing fingers at each other. If you'd like to start a sockpuppetry investigation, let me know, and we can take that avenue - however, don't accuse other editors of ownership without substance. If you think Anupam is trying to own things, give me something. Diffs, edits, anything. I'll check it out for you, but right now, baseless accusations are not what I'm looking for.
- Also, notice that I protected the article with your edit being the last one. How is that validating the very person you've been reverting?
- The protection will stay until consensus is reached. m.o.p 22:19, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Because protection is what he wants quite clearly. He's stalling conversation and shouting down people on the talk page, where, if you have a look, you'll see he's clearly in the minority. Because of your "injunction" as he calls it, he also claims that no matter how many people agree with a certain change it is illegitimate. I'll be happy to gather some diffs, but my first message to you above was to please look into the situation carefully before acting on it. Did you do that and come to the conclusion that I'm wrong or did you not head that request? Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:29, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Yes, I did heed your request. I don't see any ownership behaviour from Anupam, though, being involved in multiple disputes, I didn't have the time to read every last word on the page, so you're free to provide evidence. However, from what I can see, Anupam's last proposal was supported by the majority - not to count (and I don't mean to imply that I decide where consensus lies by looking at pure numbers), but from looking at pure supports versus opposes, eight people (nine including Anupam) support while four oppose. How does that make Anupam's views a minority? m.o.p 22:37, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- It depends on what view you are talking about. The current RFC on the introduction is something that most people don't even want to engage because most people think this very entry should be split up and integrated into other entries. I reluctantly engaged the RfC just now myself. The last time the more serious question about the entry was asked, several of the new commentators were not around, and there was "no consensus" found because the opposing side was chalk full of SPAs and editors with a view that is outright hostile to atheism (which is a legitimate view to hold, but it is a minority view). Let me find you some diffs.Griswaldo (talk) 22:43, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- User:Griswaldo, that is exactly the issue: you do not want to collaborate with other users on the talk page, which is why you were reluctant to participate in the current RfC. Moreover, there were several SPA's on the side of the opposition as well, including WP:NPOV. In addition, the split was again recently discussed and the specific case to do so was refuted by several editors. As such, there was no consensus for it. I hope this helps. With regards, AnupamTalk 22:52, 20 September 2011 (UTC)]
- No. You are trying to write an article that violates WP:SYNTH because it conflates New Atheism with oppressive communist regimes and their histories of violence. That's hardly NPOV. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:59, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
Hi m.o.p., as someone who occasionally looks at that page (and then washes my hands), I just want to compliment you as having done the right thing in full protecting. By way of unsolicited advice to the involved editors, the best thing they could do is to allow The Wrong Version to sit there a good long time, and devote their energy to other things. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:54, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
]
Yes, please reconsider your full protection of
WP:RS—deserve protection against misinformed reverts. Thanks Geremia (talk) 16:12, 22 September 2011 (UTC)]
Diffs of
- I'm not really sure where the ownership is here; nowhere in our policies is it stated that a user can't promote their RFC on the subject talk page. If it's ongoing and they'd like to move it to the forefront, what's wrong with that? More so, some of your summaries seem inaccurate - in that last diff, you state that Anupam is removing images, yet I only see Anupam adding an image (the peace dove that's at the top of the page). Also, you use repeating examples. m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Well clearly the last diff was wrong. Thanks for the vote of confidence. There are no repeat examples nor inaccurate summaries, just a mistaken copy paste of the second to last diff to the last position as well. I have fixed it. Cheers.
- Using "consensus claims from one RfC to reject changes made to article content
- Same as above. Using the "consensus" bludgeon to get his way. Please note that clearly we ought to edit by consensus, but this consensus is highly disputed, and IMO not there in the first place. The real problem is the way in which Anupam decides to use it like a trump card to remove changes he doesn't like. Ask yourself if all changes post "consensus" have been removed or just the ones Anupam decided he wanted removed.
Master of Puppets do you need more diffs or is this enough?Griswaldo (talk) 23:31, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Well I need more diffs because your "evidence" so far looks like a desperate attempt to incriminate an editor who has been very successful in persuading his colleagues to adopt his proposals. Anupam has presented his proposals, argued the merits and persuaded many editors. Anything you want to tell us about why you're having difficulty doing likewise? – Lionel (talk) 06:02, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- I don't see this is as conclusive evidence, either. And, it should be said - if people are editing against established consensus, then people are free to re-evaluate consensus, but edit-warring against it doesn't make much sense. m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- If not ownership then what is this - [28], [29], [30]? He removes two RfCs started by another editor, and revolving around the question that many of us actually find to be the fundamental question to answer regarding the entry. Then he edit wars to keep these RfCs off the page, claiming again to have some sort of authority stemming from your prior actions. If you aren't willing to do something here I'm going to another administrator and I'm going to ask for your initial "consensus," your strong arm administrating, and your lack of action here to be reviewed as well. Thanks.Griswaldo (talk) 17:08, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Anupam has already apologized for reverting those RfC additions, and we've moved past it. He also didn't claim to have administrative authority, but was waiting for my approval. We've cleared this up, it's not an issue. So no, I'm not going to take any action (as I've said here and on ANI). Now, if you'd like to threaten me and tell me that, since I'm not cooperating with your wills, you'll go to another administrator, that's fine - as I've said, you can seek outside opinions - but remember to keep a cool head, because borderline threats are not appreciated. m.o.p 21:49, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- It was not a threat, "borderline" or otherwise. You are conveniently ignoring a growing number of voices who are all saying the same thing - there is an ownership problem here. The deletion issue has not been "cleared up" as far as I'm concerned. Whenever it is mentioned Anupam insists that he did not "unilaterally" delete the RfCs from the page, which is a blatant distortion, since that is exactly what he did. He continues to act as a policeman at the page, and yes he does continue to cite your authority. Did you bother to read the many diffs I posted above in the second two sections? I will quote three random examples from those I provided for you if you want.
- When he first deleted the two RfCs he wrote: "rv - see discussion with reviewing administrator; approval needed to start another RfC while one is already occurring."
- When he deleted a fact tag that JimWae put into the lede: "rv excessive tagging per talk; tag is already extant in header; do not subvert previous consensus but gain consensus for potential additions per administrative notice"
- When he rejected another recent change to the entry: "accepted edits by User:Jkhwiki; rv removal of longstanding referenced content - see discussion on talk page and gain consensus for action per administrative injunction"
- In talk page comments and in edit summaries he consistently does the same thing. He refers to your authority, either directly or indirectly through your "notice" or your "injunction" as he likes to call it. I never said the claimed to have administrative authority, I said that he's using your authority, by way of your comments, such as the closure of the AfD to bully people. Do you deny that he citing your comments, because if you do then I must have fabricated those quotes. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:32, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
If you say "If you don't do A, then I'm going to go and do B", that's a threat. Anyway, that's not the issue - we've already covered all the issues with the RfC reverting, and Anupam won't do it again. Why keep raising hell over it?
We've already covered everything you bring up. And no, I'm not denying anything. I'm just saying this, and it's very simple: I don't think there has been any blatant ownership here. That's my judgment. If you disagree, again, feel free to raise this with another administrator or on ANI. m.o.p 23:12, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Regarding the new RFC, I still think there has not passed yet too much time since the last discussion about splitting the article. As far as I knew, repeating these sorts of debates (like splitting, deleting, renaming) before a larger amount of time has passed (like 6 months) is usually discouraged. And as others have also argued earlier, even if having multiple RFCs is possible, it's not very useful, and the new RFC seems to discourage further discussion about improving the lead introduction. So preventing multiple RFCs (and also a RFC about an issue debated not too long ago) does not look to me like evidence of bad faith intentions. Cody7777777 (talk) 21:37, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Cody, would you mind linking me to the previous RfC on splitting? m.o.p 21:49, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- The previous attempt to split the article can be found here. Cody7777777 (talk) 21:55, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Response
Yes, it does. Thanks, m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Dear User:Master of Puppets, I just noticed that User:Binksternet started another RfC while a current one is occurring. Is this appropriate? I reverted the addition motioning for one until your response is confirmed. If it is acceptable, then I apologize and will revert my edit. I look forward to your response. With regards, AnupamTalk 15:14, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'll form my reply on ANI. m.o.p 17:12, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- When you do please take into account my comment just above, regarding Anupam's edit warring to remove talk page comments (namely these RfCs) posted by others on the talk page. If you still don't think this is WP:OWN then clearly other administrators are needed here.Griswaldo (talk) 17:15, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Dear User:Griswaldo, how is going to a neutral mediator to address the issue owning the article? I acknowledge that the article is in dispute and as a result, I am asking an administrator for advice in this matter, NOT handling things on my own, as you have done by edit warring. Your WP:OWN allegations have not only been dismissed by this administrator, but by several other users, including, User:Lionelt, User:Cody7777777 and User:NYyankees51. Thanks, AnupamTalk 17:27, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- In reply to Griswaldo: reverting the RfCs was a mistake, but we've cleared that up now. As Anupam has stated at ANI, the intent was not to discourage discussion. If you think my judgment is compromised, you're welcome to seek another administrator's input. m.o.p 21:04, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- And as further evidence of WP:OWN, see this. Anupam adds a comment to everything that anyone else says, as if he/she is the owner of the article and everyone else is a subordinate contributor. This particular instance is pretty benign (although it clutters up the talk page with an unnecessary comment that merely says "I agree"), but I do think that Anupam at least needs to learn how to avoid giving the appearance of thinking he/she owns the article, and to desist from chipping in and saying the same thing over and over again, which almost makes meaningful discussion impossible! SNALWIBMA ( talk - contribs ) 17:31, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- While the input is appreciated, as I've said before, making allegations of ownership without hard evidence isn't going to get us anywhere. Anupam is not stopping others from discussing changes or forming consensus, and that's all that matters - refactoring the talk page or commenting on an issue is not against policy, and I'm not going to tell someone to stop editing because it "looks" like they're doing something wrong. As said above, you're welcome to request another administrator's insight if you wish. m.o.p 21:04, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
COIHi
you've helped me out before, with a conflict of interest problem, so having much more experience than me on wikipedia, I thought I would be bold enough to ask again for help.
Similar problem to last, User_talk:Hobbycraft is editing the HOBBYCRAFT article and making changes that aren't citably right. I think the user name suggest and history suggests a conflict of interest case.
Can you please, speak to them addressing this issue.
Thank you very much for your help.
Markcoulter50 (talk) 22:27, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
- I've blocked that user for username violations. Thanks a lot for letting me know! Keep up the great work, m.o.p 23:00, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkbackcausa sui (talk) 18:47, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Hello. You have a new message at causa sui's talk page. causa sui (talk) 20:54, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Problematic editing on militant atheism
- I hope it's not considered defamatory to repeat the final line: "I merely present the diffs above, and let others draw their own conclusions. Is this a duck? Does it quack? You decide.". Unfortunately, the concerned community no longer has that opportunity. What did you decide on their behalf? Does this duck quack, or not? bobrayner (talk) 15:42, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- It's not your wording, it's the very idea of it. Going to what's allegorically a public place and shouting, "Hey, everybody, this man is a criminal!" is one step below blatantly forming a lynch mob. As I've said, I have no problem with your wording or evidence, just your location of choice. Wikipedia is not, unfortunately, a democracy - letting others draw their conclusions and voice their opinions is not how a sockpuppet investigation works.
- So yes, please don't go restoring any of that section. We're not discussing editors, we're discussing the content they produce. Anything else has a sub-board to deal with it (like WP:SPI).
- Hopefully that clears things up! I'll be happy to answer any more questions should you have them. Cheers, m.o.p 15:48, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Hello User:Bobrayner, I noticed the section you created on the militant atheism talk page. If you do feel the way you do about User:Turnsalso and the anonymous IP Addresses, you can take this up with WP:SPI. Thanks, AnupamTalk 15:52, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
Are you kidding my MoP? Above your write: Going to what's allegorically a public place and shouting, "Hey, everybody, this man is a criminal!" is one step below blatantly forming a lynch mob. AND We're not discussing editors, we're discussing the content they produce. Yet you call this edit by Lionelt "good faith," at WQA? MoP, I would not ask you to agree with me or to like me, but can I please ask you not to insult me with these double standards.Griswaldo (talk) 16:18, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
]
- Griswaldo, I mean no offense when I say this, but I'd appreciate it if you stayed out of discussions which didn't involve you. Also, please don't put words in my mouth. Thanks, m.o.p 16:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I have not put words in your mouth. You said that you would assume good faith about Lionel. If you "assume good faith" it means you assume his edits were in "good faith." If you did not intend that meaning I suggest you reconsider what you wrote. Also, if you want me to "stay out of discussion which don't involve me" then I suggest your first order of business should be to do the same thing yourself. You decided to post at WQA, when there was no mention of you or anything you've done in that thread. Once again, I expect people not to practice double standards. So as long as you cannot show me that you will treat me as you ask to be treated yourself, I will not oblige you. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:21, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Please stop bickering. I'm not quite sure what you're trying to accomplish here. I've already explained what I meant when I said assuming good faith, but I'll explain again: I assumed that Lionelt was not hounding or deliberately haranguing you. I did not say, at any point, that his edit content was good faith, and I've told him not to edit like that again. So please stop accusing me of saying things I haven't said.
- Also, I posted in WQA because, as a mediator in this case and as an administrator, it's my duty to weigh in on administrative noticeboards, especially when the case is an ongoing discussion I've been participating in for three months. It is not your duty to weigh in on discussions on my talk page that don't concern you. I hope the distinction is clear here. m.o.p 20:33, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I think you are confused about something. Content is never good faith. "Editing in good faith" and "good faith edits" refers to the intent of the editor always. It has nothing to do with content. My assumption that you also felt the edits were appropriate comes from the fact that you did not say they weren't appropriate and clearly feel that his intentions were good. If you'd like to set the record straight on that issue you still can. I've asked you twice now to discuss the actual edits that are the focal point of the thread. Also, I moved the thread to ANI, per the suggestion of the editor who marked it "resolved."Griswaldo (talk) 20:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- See Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#User:Lionelt_--_following_my_past_edits_to_drum_up_support_against_me. FYI, I copy pasted the entire discussion because both you and Collect were critical of my initial post and I thought it was the right thing to do to preserve that criticism in the record of the conversation. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:43, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- In reply to your first paragraph: I'm going to give up now, as it seems you're misunderstanding most of what I type, but you're the one who stated that the content was not good faith (as you said, not appropriate), and I agreed - I referred to his intent in replying to you, and said that I assumed good faith in his motives, not his replies. I can't really say that in a clearer way, so my apologies if it's hard to understand. Also, as I've already said, I've left a message for Lionelt about his edits, so clearly I do not feel they're appropriate. m.o.p 20:57, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I, too, find these double standards vexing.
- Which diff is defamatory?
- I had hitherto thought that people on the article talkpage might like to be aware of potential problems with votestacking on the article talkpage (and 3rr evasion, of course). Would it be permitted to add a link to that list of diffs when it's in a different place, or would you consider that defamatory too? bobrayner (talk) 16:23, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- As I said, the information is not defamatory, but the way it's presented is - we have specific processes available to pursue should one feel there are sockpuppets about. However, calling someone out with the intent of informing the community is overstepping your authority and damaging to the accused's character. Also, there's no way a community discussion about whether or not one editor is a sockpuppet can end in anything other than a sockpuppet investigation anyway.
- So, in closing, please don't bring issues like this to the talk page. If you're concerned about votestacking, take it to the appropriate venue - if your concerns are validated, we'll take measures against said puppets. Cheers, m.o.p 16:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I am very disappointed that it's no longer permissible to raise problems with article-editing on the article talkpage. Previous concerns about sockpuppetry were simply ignored; the difference this time is that it's backed by lots of diffs.
- I'm fairly confident that the people concerned have sufficient technical nous to make checkuser draw a blank. And, let's be entirely honest, within minutes of me creating an SPI, an admin of the right persuasion will be getting an email suggesting that an SPI needs their attention. And SPI does not see offsite coordination by a facebook group &c. Finally, any null result at SPI will be used at the article in much the same way as previous administrative decisions have been. So, I do not believe that an SPI will improve either the article, or the encyclopædia as a whole. bobrayner (talk) 17:08, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- If you don't think the pre-existing methods set in place for situations like this are sufficient, you can always raise that concern at the village pump or suggest a policy revision - however, SPI is the venue for these requests, and the only venue. The talk page can not substitute. m.o.p 17:10, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
76.228.226.122Thank you for blocking the anonymous user, who is being counterproductive and rude. (although I think the block should have been one week, but I guess ok at least)
Can you also please try to hide the edit summaries of these edits if possible?
This and
this
Thanks and regards, talk 05:04, 26 September 2011 (UTC)]
- I'll extend the block if this behaviour continues after the block period is over.
- As for the edit summaries, those don't warrant hiding - I apologize for their content, but they don't meet the criteria of what I should remove. It's best just to ignore them for now. Cheers, m.o.p 05:13, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
- Okay, good to know, if I did nothing wrong, no permanent block will be enforced. The IP does not volunteer on WP as an admin and so the disproportionately out of line comments and threats of his should be ignored. --talk 05:19, 26 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Sounds good. We only hide extremely offensive revisions; milder ones stay in the edit history. Thanks again for bringing this to our attention! Cheers, m.o.p 05:31, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
Email
Jasper Deng (talk) 05:29, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
- Reading. talk) 06:00, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Bad Girls Club
- I've blocked Junebea for 2 days for disregarding warnings. m.o.p 20:30, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks for helping :) Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 21:06, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkback
- And again.Griswaldo (talk) 04:24, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
- And again ... but maybe the last. You can settle this question once and for all. See the talk page.Griswaldo (talk) 06:09, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'm sure I'm not alone in wanting to hear your replies to the last responses posed to you at that page. IMO, I don't know why you went down the road you did, but as far as I can tell you're blatantly misrepesenting facts about your own actions when people are brining concerns to you. You might think that since you closed the RfC the matter is settled, but it is not. You're actions have not made my life any more pleasant in the last few days vis-a-vis trying to deal with Anupam's disruption and I think you owe us all answers. So please revisit this thread and deal with the open questions. Thanks.Griswaldo (talk) 02:19, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
- I invite you to stop asking the same question again and again. This would be appreciated. Thanks, m.o.p 02:33, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Block question
- No, I just block obviously bad-faith accounts on sight. Advertising/spam accounts fall under that category. m.o.p 00:37, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Thanks
- Thank you. I've unlocked the article for whatever may come. If I'm needed again, feel free to let me know. Thanks for the kind words again, m.o.p 05:12, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
reminder
- We're still waiting to see if the user understands COI policy (per Ed's question). I'll prod the user and see if they'll answer. talk) 19:20, 30 September 2011 (UTC)]
Nextel logo deleted
- Mmm, good point. What's the link to the logo in question? m.o.p 01:33, 2 October 2011 (UTC)
Support of Sage City SymphonyYou deleted this page before I had a chance to go back in and add the stuff that you wanted to see, including the links within Wikipedia to important composers such as Lou Callabro (who started this orchestra and cites it in his Wikipedia page) and Susan Hurley whose work we premiered (SC is also mentioned in her Wikipedia entry). (Let alone links about the works we have performed.) And we have a web site at www.sagecitysymphony.org, have existed for over 35 yrs and are a significant cultural resource in the Bennington area such that we receive grants from local, statewide and national foundations.
I broke my wrist last weekend and am doing one-handed pecking so it'll take me a few days to get that loaded in. We are going out for a bit now, but I would appreciate your undeleting the page so that I don't have to re-invent the starting part when I go back in tomorrow to add links. Or delete it entirely so that I can start fresh - at this point either would work as long as I can start some serious work on it tomorrow. I am the webmaster by the way, so I do have access to content and more links.
Thank you, Celia Murray — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.228.127.119 (talk) 14:22, 1 October 2011 (UTC)
- It looks like fixed everything up. Best of luck, m.o.p 01:35, 2 October 2011 (UTC)]
Reply on Deterence's talk page
MA
After the beating you took you deserve a cold one--on me! Thanks for being fair and balanced – Lionel (talk) 03:55, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
- Hey, thanks! Glad to help out. :) m.o.p 03:56, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
Deletion of Mau5trap Recordings
--neocharles (talk) 07:33, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Existence does not equal notability - the subject has to be notable to get a Wikipedia page. m.o.p 12:05, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
Questoin re: AIV
- Addendum, actually, I read it very clearly in WP:VANDNOT: "Uploading or using material on Wikipedia in violation of Wikipedia's copyright policies is prohibited, but is not vandalism unless the user does so maliciously or fails to heed warnings." So if a person fails to heed warnings it is vandalism. My mistake here was that I only warned once. --Muhandes (talk) 12:29, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Eh, technically it is vandalism, but the user seems to be trying to improve the Wikipedia - that desire to help is misplaced in this case, as they seem to think that using copyrighted content is actually better. Weird. For most cases, yes, you should report copyvio to AIV - as long as they've been warned sufficiently. m.o.p 12:42, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- OK, he now did it again and the time stamp is after your last warning. Is it vandalism now? --Muhandes (talk) 12:32, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Yeah, if they're outright ignoring warnings. I've blocked for three days. m.o.p 12:40, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
Classmusic
- Oh, I know. But if somebody's lied to my face about using another account - and to other editors working on the article - I'm not about to let them go without a repercussion or two. I'd like Almost-instinct and Voceditnore to look over the article and fix up anything shifty. Also, I'd like Classmusic to respond to my warning, instead of blanking it and ignoring like they have to the above-named editors.
- So, in short, I know that COI doesn't bar editing, but it's enough of a concern that, given the user's recent behaviour, I'll stop them from doing anything until we've figured things out. This isn't too rouge-y, is it? I didn't hear that. Perhaps he is unaware of the sockpuppet investigation findings. Anyhow it seems that DeltaQuad has also blocked the Classmusic account. I left a note on his page about using the unblock template, but re-iterated that he needs to read the COI and Autobiography guidelines and stick to them scrupulously, if he gets unblocked. In the Opera and Classical Music WikiProjects, we get a lot of articles for performers, ensembles, etc. created by their agents and PR people, and often themselves. In my experience, the best I can hope for after one of these tussles is that they'll edit their article according to the guidelines in future. I have yet to find a single one who has ever contributed anything else to Wikipedia. Their only interest in the project is as a PR tool. Having said that, at least it results (after much red-pencilling from other editors) in one new article on a notable subject that we didn't have before and in a small way redresses the pop culture systemic bias here. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 13:40, 5 October 2011 (UTC)]
Danish election
- Never mind, it's been pulled by another admin. All the best, Jenks24 (talk) 11:03, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry about that! I was busy all day and didn't get your message until now. Thanks for letting me know, though! Cheers, m.o.p 19:51, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
3RRHey there! :)
Well WP:CRYSTAL has wined down, however, there's currently a
The Bad Girls Club (season 7). I have notified the two users [32], [33]. The evidence can be found here. They are having an edit-conflict on how the "Duration of cast" should be presented. Since there's no rules regarding anything like that, and it was made up about a year ago, I couldn't warned them to stop their e/c with anything except the 3RR rule. Maybe they need an admin to tell them to stop, so that's why I came to you :) Thanks, Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 01:17, 6 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Temporary page protection requested. Calabe1992 (talk) 01:29, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
Edit summariesActually user:Zjarriretues is removing a reliable source [[1]] that mentions his ethnicity and places another that's more suitable to his national standarts. Although the source Zjarri. prefers is also 'rs' he did not disagree in the article's talkpage with my version [[2]].
Unfortunately when a couple of months passed you prefered to make his revert per
I reverted myself, however, an explanation is needed in the talkpage by the user since he agreed in the past with the version I've presented on Aug..Alexikoua (talk) 17:14, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
Your friend the the IP
sent you an email
- One of your userboxes says you're only 17! I would have sworn you were older than that! ; ) --Kenatipo speak! 23:40, 16 February 2011 (UTC)
Godzilla
- I feel that it doesn't. If you check our crystal ball policy, you'll notice that it says, "It is appropriate to report discussion and arguments about the prospects for success of future proposals and projects or whether some development will occur, if discussion is properly referenced." That policy is meant to stop unsourced conjecture and speculation by editors, so I think we're fine in this case. The Hobbit film project with all its troubles). Here, with Godzilla, the reports are extremely normal. The studio announces its plans for a film, and a director is attached for it (which is not a guarantee). That's what it boils down to, and it's not enough to be more than a news source. Erik (talk | contribs) 16:11, 17 February 2011 (UTC)
- I appreciate that you've explained your position to me (though I did read your points in the AFD thread) but I can't delve into stuff like this. If you're not happy with my close, you're fully welcome to ask another administrator or even open another AFD. m.o.p 16:15, 17 February 2011 (UTC)
- I won't do anything for now. I would just prefer to keep such articles a rarity. Following films for some time, a lot of people tend to create an article about a film the moment it is announced (or the moment something new happens, like a new director). I do like to report discussion (did so at Concrete Island) but it's more a matter of where for me, to ensure topics of enduring notability. I did want to ask, do you think a merge discussion in general would be more beneficial? I feel like an AFD like that foments a keep-or-delete mentality that overrides the in-between solution of reporting discussion under a broader article until we can be near certain a film will exist. Erik (talk | contribs) 16:21, 17 February 2011 (UTC)
- A merge discussion would be great; I could weigh in and such. Feel free to open one up if you'd like to. m.o.p 23:03, 17 February 2011 (UTC)
]
Please respond
userspace
Talkback 16:14, 19 February 2011 (UTC)
Protect my talk page
- Lately, this IP also misused the edit war template on my talk page.Jasper Deng (talk) 00:37, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
Block an IP
E-Mail
nice guyhiii master of puppets,
ok do u know the movie Twilght saga ?
rply me back i want 2 talk 2 u a lot because i like ur pesonalty.BY
talk) 11:58, 28 April 2011 (UTC)]
File source problem with File:MoPuppetarmy.pngThank you for uploading File:MoPuppetarmy.png. I noticed that the file's description page currently doesn't specify who created the content, so the copyright status is unclear. If you did not create this file yourself, you will need to specify the owner of the copyright. If you obtained it from a website, please add a link to the website from which it was taken, together with a brief restatement of that website's terms of use of its content. However, if the copyright holder is a party unaffiliated from the website's publisher, that copyright should also be acknowledged.
If you have uploaded other files, consider verifying that you have specified sources for those files as well. You can find a list of files you have created in your upload log. Unsourced and untagged images may be deleted one week after they have been tagged per Wikipedia's criteria for speedy deletion, F4. If the image is copyrighted and non-free, the image will be deleted 48 hours after 11:44, 11 May 2011 (UTC) per speedy deletion criterion F7. If the file is already gone, you can still make a request for undeletion and ask for a chance to fix the problem. You may wish to read the Wikipedia's image use policy. If you have any questions or are in need of assistance please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. Magog the Ogre (talk) 11:44, 11 May 2011 (UTC)
The Deputy
- Thanks for your reply. My concern was not that Jayjg indicated he would rewrite and did not do so, but that he had agreed to allow more of the disputed section in the article rather than a dismissive sentence or two, but when editors began to delete the entire section based on frivolous reasons, he supported it. It appears now that we have, or are in the process of reaching a resolution. The section is now in the article, reduced substantially to account of Jayjg's concers about undue weight. Mamalujo (talk) 18:40, 27 May 2011 (UTC)
Carla Rushing page deletion
Any further discussion of Sarah Palin will result in a warning, and then a temporary block. Thank you!Hmmm, that might be just a tad excessive. We don't want to suppress all discussion, because that's when the pressure has nowhere to go, and people will go and meatball:ExpandScope.
Since scope is already expanded to international media, forcing scope to expand further might be a bit of a Bad Idea (tm). I recommend Not Going There.
If we're really intent on keeping discussions off of WP, we can always create a wikinews article, and link to the "discuss this article" page.
However, at the moment, people seem to be keeping it down to a dull roar anyway.
--Kim Bruning (talk) 22:44, 6 June 2011 (UTC)
- I think you caught my side point, but I'd like to stress the part I'm trying to tell you to watch out for!
- Long term empirical experience shows that attempts to curtail discussion on wikipedia will not slow down the internet discussion elsewhere (or even on wikipedia). Instead, that's exactly what will feed it more and more steam. So Don't Do That.
- Experience shows that the following approaches work:
- Try to centralize all (spurious) discussion in one place
- keep it as focused on encyclopedic work as possible.
- Treat the new users like new users. They don't know our rules yet. Teach them!
- The foundation would like to see us be more welcoming towards new users. That's a good idea! Let's do that.
- --Kim Bruning (talk) 00:26, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
- And... it went to AN/I (see below) --Kim Bruning (talk) 01:33, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
Edit Notice on Paul RevereYou seem to be asserting some admin right to quench discussion on the talk page by blocking and/or warning with the editnotice that I don't think we have, by policy. IAR doesn't cover stomping on people, no matter how annoying a particular conversation is.
Kelly started a
WP:ANI discussion on this.
Followups probably best on ANI as I am sure others will want to comment. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 01:15, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
- On review - I'm going to blank the edit notice now. If an ANI consensus develops to support restoring it then I'll not object at all, but I think it's novel and enough of a stretch that the default should be "no" unless consensus develops otherwise. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 01:19, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
How does a user find a mentor?
Helen Lucy Burke
Talkback
I did what you asked but the IP reverted it again. PTJoshua (talk) 21:09, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
- You're removing everything I say. Please don't do this. It isn't helpful. --86.45.75.42 (talk) 21:19, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
- I'll talk to them. Sit tight for a second. m.o.p 21:10, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
RE: Deletion of 48gogreen page :ApalejaHello,
Thank you for quick response. I appreciate your reason. but if you do some research you'll find more then 4 or 5 substantial mentions in local or international media - in a newspaper, on a notable website, etc. - to put forward this article.
There is a link on official website of company. http://www.48gogreen.com/static/web
Looking forward for your response. thank you in advance to undelete article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Apaleja (talk • contribs) 08:03, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
Here are some articles from International Press (you can use Google translator-if you use chrome it'll provide option immediately):
http://www.regione.emilia-romagna.it/wcm/cinema/sezioni_primopiano/PrimoPiano/Gadoev.htm
http://domani.arcoiris.tv/girano-un-corto-in-48-ore-e-arrivano-dritti-a-cannes/
http://www.close-up.it/spip.php?article6724
http://www.flashvideo.it/news/9/2578/
http://www.radioemiliaromagna.it/cultura/cinema/videomaker_bolognesi_cannes_corto_ecologico.aspx
Also if YOU HAD READ careful our site you should have see the Press link (those are press links not blogs) with all these web press: http://www.48gogreen.com/static/web
Thank you — Preceding unsigned comment added by Apaleja (talk • contribs) 08:22, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
Final warning On Edit Warring of Efik language disputeIf My Reporting a false article is the reason you want to block me. Then Go ahead and BLOCK me.- I can be Block because I don't care to be part of a web/Encyclopedia of Lies! Although I have contributed anonymously to wikipedia since 2008, I only just signed on a few weeks ago to report an error that I thought was made. But you and your other BIASED administrators have refused to fix this error, instead you're all threatening to block me.
- : According to Wikipedia A false statement/article is removed immediatley it is realized. Yet as am reporting it you all are threatening me for causing disruption.
- You all are saying that I called I called Kwami Slow, Dumb etc. Yet Kwami used the words Ignorance first.
"As for Ukwa, your ignorance is not evidence of anything".
- What is the meaning of IGNORANCE? S/He also said;
"But we cannot have the same article under two names, nor an article on Ibibio-Efik that does not include Ibibio, nor an article on Efik that does not include Efik. A little common sense would be helpful."
- What is meaning of Common sense? Or because Kwami put it very nicely, and mine wasn't? Also I wasn't blanking the Efik page, since I just signed on it takes me a long while to write up an article. According to the statements above, Kwami said I could develop articles on Efik and Ibibio, that is what I was doing when you or your other BIASED administrators returned the articles back to the re-direct.
- : Since wikipedia says a false statement is fixed immediately it is reported, I explained out the mistakes, but Kwami kept insisting that me a native who speaks these languages was wrong and asked for sources. I provided the sources and Kwami Called A brilliant Historian who is a Million times more knowledgable than Kwami on the language;
"utterly ignorant AND not some random idiot who posted a web page".
- Yet you and your other Biased colleges are claiming that am the one attacking Kwami and causing a disruption.
- : Am done with Wikipedia, am going to be taking this issues to the Founder/head by email, once the Ibibio union are involved it might become a legal matter if Wikipedia still continues to portray this misleading information.
I will take this matter to the heads by Email first because they might not be aware of what you all supposed administrators are doing to their image. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ibibiogrl (talk • contribs) 21:41, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
Hi Mops,
Pls read my comments on the ANI page. I think Ibibiogrl means well, she just needs some guidance, and she's not willing to take it from me. — kwami (talk) 22:17, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
- Obviously we would like to have contributors from that part of the world, but Ibibiogrl's record here is so unpromising that I think we need good assurances that something will change in the future. (I would welcome any evidence that Ibibiogrl means well. It is hard to improve the encyclopedia when you have no interest in or respect for its policies. Read her statement above if you are uncertain about that). Mentorship has value only for someone who understands that something has gone wrong and would be willing to work with a mentor. EdJohnston (talk) 22:46, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
- I agree with Ed in this case - I have no grudge against Ibibiogrl, but the editor's attitude, despite multiple pleas for otherwise, remained combative and even insulting at points. If there's a serious expression of guilt and the editor decides they'd like to walk a different path, I'd be happy to help. However, as it is now, I believe the block should stand. m.o.p 22:52, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
- I agree that it would require some indication that she wants help. Just my 2¢ as the person she's most upset with. — kwami (talk) 23:05, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
- For the record, your input is highly appreciated, and very admirable; as the editor in conflict with her, I respect your neutrality and helpfulness. As for Ibibiogrl, we'll see where that goes. Cheers! m.o.p 00:59, 17 June 2011 (UTC)
Can you adopt me i want a new adopter.
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Mr. Pit (2nd nomination)
This isn't personalI belive the AFD on Campaign for "santorum" neologism was closed way to early and am contesting your close.
An editor has asked for a deletion review of Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2011 June 21. Because you closed the deletion discussion for this page, speedily deleted it, or otherwise were interested in the page, you might want to participate in the deletion review. KoshVorlon' Naluboutes Aeria Gloris 12:17, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
James Ball
Thank you for your concern. But I will not be blocked - _I am adding_ wikipedia to adblock. I also feel regret for having donated to the site before, but this will not happen again. Demonuminon (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 23:25, 23 June 2011 (UTC).
Thomas James BallWhy the hell did you delete his page?
Does his suffering mean nothing to you?
Heartless bitch. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.57.206.141 (talk • contribs)
Hey, Master of Puppets, OBVIOUSLY there is a public interested in keeping this article. Restore your deletion. Look at the massive flood of comments regarding your deletion here: http://www.<linkremoved>.com/2011/06/24/the-organized-silencing-of-a-man-publicly-burned-to-death/ and here http://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/i81rw/the_organized_silencing_of_a_man_publicly_burned/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Romerom (talk • contribs) 20:05, 24 June 2011 (UTC)
- Ball HIT A FOUR-YEAR-OLD CHILD, refused to pay child support, called for insurrection, demanded terrorism and violence as a solution, ultimately killed himself (leaving his children without a father) and damaged public property in the process. Even after all that, his incoherent message has mostly been ignored except by the less discriminating people claiming to speak for "men's rights" who haven't bothered to look into the details of his case. (If you really want to damage your cause, adopt a grown man who hits his own four-year-old child and flakes out on his child support as your poster boy.) --Orange Mike | Talk 20:26, 24 June 2011 (UTC) (proud father who has never hit his child in his lifetime)
Hey, "proud father who never hit his child in his lifetime", not everybody is against disciplining their children by spanking. He said his daughter was licking his hand, and he had told her repeatedly to stop. She didn't, and he smacked her. He didn't punch her, or send her to the hospital, or cause any serious injury. Just enough to have his wife baited into calling the police on him by child protective services. As for child support, he paid his child support until the point where he wasn't able to afford it due to an employment issue. Is that such a crazy thing to have happen? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.211.155.1 (talk) 04:28, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
- Again, while I do sympathize with the family and supporters, I am not taking sides, nor do I have any bias in this situation. I am not a feminist, nor am I a misogynist - I am fair and neutral towards all people, whether they be abusive fathers or abused fathers.
- This deletion was enforced solely in keeping with Wikipedia's long-established policies. Mr. Ball's death, while indeed tragic, was not reported throughout the reliable media enough to show his notability.
- I hope this makes sense to all those saddened by Mr. Ball's passing. Cheers, m.o.p 21:04, 24 June 2011 (UTC)
- I understand that you do not think that Mr. Ball's death is something that qualifies as an event and thus deleted said article. I disagree but I do see the merits of your argument. However, you claim to be unbiased in this debate and yet for someone who judges on the letter of the law you break the law and close debate 2.5 days before final judgment is to be rendered. If you have no corner then I ask why make this article a special case that it must be quelled , by your own admission, 2.5 days before any other articles found in similar circumstances are voted upon. I petition you to reinstate and allow the normal course of the discussion continue for the 2.5 days, allow the full opportunity for the pro side to make their case then recluse yourself from the final judgment. This is the only way to ensure transparency so that your claim of neutrality can be believed. CaffOMHW (talk) 03:28, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
- Ahead of things, let me tell you that I appreciate the civility.
- Wikipedia's policies aren't law - they're guidelines. As an administrator, it's my job to apply policy in a way that is completely devoid of bias and benefits the encyclopedia as a whole.
- On a side note, the deletion nomination was closed 1.5 days before the normal time. The page had a whole work week to be saved, rewritten or reworked; however, due to the lack of outside sourcing that carried reliability, there was nothing to keep that wasn't editorialized or unencyclopedic. I would also like to point out that almost every account that voiced their opinion in the 'keep' spectrum had either only edited that page or had edited very little aside from the page. Meanwhile, the deletion argument was put forward by experienced users.
- Though I understand that some people take offense to my early closure, I assure them that one extra day would not have yielded success, and that I took many factors into consideration before closing the discussion.
- Again, thank you for the civility, but I won't be overturning judgment or recreating a deletion discussion at this date. m.o.p 08:17, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
ITNthx for the 2 quick updates of my nom ;)
but also can you see the bolivia one. its got support and very nearly out of the news. we could tack it nearer the border.Lihaas (talk) 22:26, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
Ball closure.
Thank God you are an ambassador for WP, and against censorship, MoP. When Wikipedia fails, and it eventually will, it will largely be because most people don't like to be gamed and would rather not read well cultivated information that is maintained by dishonest brokers who hide behind rules that are never applied in an even-handed manner. The idea that a story is not relevant merely because it is not yet encyclopedic is ridiculous when one sees all the articles which linger on for months or years in the same state. The idea that a story is not relevant because the motivations/justifications of the user are suspect would be grounds for eliminating half the biographical articles in WP. It smacks of an agenda. The appearance of impropriety is as bad as actual impropriety.173.78.20.96 (talk) 04:51, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
- I appreciate the feedback.
- I do my best to maintain an equal, proportionate response in all dealings on Wikipedia; I don't defend things I like, or attack things I dislike, just for the reason of screwing with people. That strikes me as childish. Instead, the most I can do is try to help others understand Wikipedia policies, which are generally mind-bending and hard to grasp (for example, most people ask, "What's the reasoning a war hero isn't considered notable when Donkey Kong is?").
- Maybe one day the policies will change. I mean, most of these were written five, six year ago - the world's changing, and I expect they will with time. But, for now, the guidelines handle what comes in.
- Again, thanks for the input. I appreciate not being personally attacked - it makes it easier to reply. Cheers, m.o.p 05:08, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Natami (2nd nomination)
- The close was thoroughly thought-out, so there's not much ground for me to explore that I haven't already. If you're set on going to DRV, there's nothing I can say which will change your mind, and it's your right to ask for a review. However, current consensus sits at delete (unless the 'keep' side is hiding an ace-in-the-hole reliable source or something). Cheers, m.o.p 04:55, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- So, what about the reliable sources we already brought up in the AfD such as this interview in Amiga Future or this news article from nr2.ru? We've already established that Amiga Future isn't sponsored by a hardware company as one !voter there falsely claimed. On a related note, did you discount the !votes from individuals making misleading statements or those claiming there were "no independent reliable sources"? (I could tell you how that !voter happened to show up there, but he isn't going to like it.) I could also link to forum posts by another delete !voter who showed up there who was very much into a "delete at any cost" mode because he doesn't like "amiga clones". --Tothwolf (talk) 05:11, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- Those sources were there before the previous close, and I, like the previous administrator, do not think they're strong enough.
- I've already covered what kind of rationale was discounted and what wasn't.
- As for your last statement about other editors - I'm not quite sure what your point is, but I don't think it's relevant. As I said, I've discounted any rationale that does not apply policy.
- Cheers, m.o.p 05:33, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- Uh, no...nr2.ru was only brought up in the second AfD. Strong enough is also an argument to be made in a !vote, not a closing statement. --Tothwolf (talk) 05:56, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- My apologies, the Russian source was indeed added after the first AfD. Still too shaky for a stand-alone article, though. Cheers, m.o.p 13:42, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- To follow up on my earlier comment, while I don't really want to get into an "X did this because of Y" sort of thing with regards to this AfD, there were a number of delete !voters who showed up there for personal reasons/vendettas/bias and/or who made false statements about sources. Despite the template at the top of the AfD, the second AfD also didn't suffer from the forum canvassing that the first did. One of the delete !voters actually came by way of the forum and first AfD and was trolling because of his personal dislike of Amiga clones. --Tothwolf (talk) 15:33, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
If they have valid, policy-based rationale, their personal motivation doesn't matter, solely for the reason that an encyclopedia based on liking or disliking things would crumble instantly. I'm sure some of the deletion crew could just-as-easily blame keep voters for being enthusiasts and fans of Natami - but that's not important. As a result, making allegations of personal bias is unnecessary. The help is appreciated, but there's nothing I can do with the information. m.o.p 15:39, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- It matters when someone makes false statements and tries to hide what they are doing behind policy. As for keeps, quite a number appear to be from well established editors who don't appear to be all that interested in Amiga topics. As for myself, I wasn't even aware of NatAmi until the first AfD and didn't even !vote in the first AfD since I thought it was pretty obvious it was headed for a no-consensus close. --Tothwolf (talk) 15:58, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- Again, if their rationale is grounded in policy, their motivation does not matter, simply because it's impossible to discern someone's intent through text, and because the second someone accuses another of favoritism/malicious intent the entire argument turns into a bunch of people shouting, "You're lying." That's why there's nothing I can do with your information in this case. Cheers, m.o.p 16:02, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- Apologies to you, M.O.P., for addressing another editor on your talk page, but I just wanted to jump in this conversation. Tothwolf, with no prejudice against you at all I strongly suggest you take this in perspective. There have been two AFDs and an ANI report over this article. The way you treated me on my talk page threatening DRV because I was a new administrator was, as I feel it, borderline harassing. That you canvassed two other administrators to talk to me was also a below the belt move. In good faith, I relisted the debate and it has closed again as delete. I strongly suggest taking the advice at WP:DGAF into account here and let the issue go. I don't think there will be a problem recreating this article, even pulling the old content back from the deletion log, when the subject has better sources in a broader community. I hold no ill feeling toward you, this is purely honest advice.--v/r - TP 16:46, 27 June 2011 (UTC)]
- TParis, while you are correct in that this talk page is not the place for this, because you brought this up here and you seem to value honest feedback, I'll address this here.
In no way did I ever threaten you with DRV, let alone because you were a new administrator (discussion in question). I did however upon noticing that you had passed RFA only days earlier decide it best not to press you further in public and instead sent you this short email: "Sigh. I just noticed you just finished your RFA. The Natami AfD was a bad AfD to pick to close right out of the gate. It is likely to end up at DRV and given the magazine I mentioned, overturned. I really wish you would reconsider your close. You might have noticed I didn't even !vote in the AfD itself, however I did point out a number of things and took a couple of people to task for making false or misleading statements." That is the only email I sent you about the matter and not once did I ever threaten you with DRV. Please get your facts correct before making statements such as this because such mistakes can have a negative effect on others.
After you replied expressing your disagreement over the sources (and implied that I might be biased because I sometimes contribute to computing-related articles) I asked a number of other administrators (way more than two, actually) what they thought of the AfD's close because I wanted unbiased feedback to see if I was somehow totally off-track before I initiated a DRV. The feedback I got was fairly unanimous in that the close was problematic. Before I had a chance to draft a DRV however, you reverted your own close and relisted the AfD from scratch with a new listing. In no way did I ever "canvass" anyone to "talk to you" and if others did contact you directly, they did so at their own discretion and for their own reasons.
There indeed have been two AfDs, the first of which you closed (although one could also argue that the second was merely a relist of the first). The AN/I "discussion" you also mentioned wasn't really over this article or the first AfD, it was an attempt by someone to game AN/I when they were unable to bully me on their talk page. Please be more careful making these sort of blanket statements in the future because as I mentioned above such statements can cause problems for others. --Tothwolf (talk) 17:38, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- You're email was exactly like your reply here. You like to make threats without actually making them: "such statements can cause problems". There is very little way your email cannot be interpreted as anything other than a threat of DRV because I am a new administrator. This is all I'll say on M.O.P.'s talk page as I came here to offer honest advice and you don't seem interested in it. If you'd like to discuss further with me, you know where to find my talk page.--v/r - TP 17:51, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- TParis, in no way did I ever make an implied threat. While I may be a little blunt and abrasive at times (or maybe I'm just an assume good faith in that you simply misremembered the facts I outlined above when you made this statement here. It is easy to forget a few details here or there and not everyone maintains detailed notes for this sort of stuff (I do, for a number of reasons, although I didn't always).
As far as honest advice goes, this is a two-way street and I gave you my opinion as well. If you choose to ignore and discount it, so be it, but I'd suggest you be much more careful in the future and get your facts correct before you make the sort of statement you made above. Such statements can and do cause problems for other editors. Who knows, it may just be that you've not been around long enough yet to have witnessed people blocked or punished in some way because someone else didn't have their facts together. (If you do decide you want to continue this discussion, perhaps we should take this elsewhere.) --Tothwolf (talk) 18:14, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
]
Heaton Park Hebrew Congregation (2nd nomination)
Natami
Thought you might want to know
- (talk page stalker) That's just the same little ideological website which has been pushing for the "Martyrdom of St. Thomas Ball" attention since day one; no actual new coverage. --Orange Mike | Talk 14:34, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
- I guess I should also mention that the way I found it, was that someone tried submitting it to Fark.com last night. The admins did not greenlight it, so that particular submission/thread did not go to the main Fark page, appearing only to those with Totalfark accounts. The submission said something like "Wikipedia deletes burning man" (I'm not at a computer with TF access so I might not have that exactly right). It might, theoretically, based on the submission, be considered some sort of off-site canvassing (it was submitted with the asinine tag). For what its worth, the thread went uncommented, so I don't think that particular attempt garnered any support. I just wanted to drop a line in case that this was just the first drop of a large storm. If I see anything else, I'll drop a line here. Umbralcorax (talk) 15:58, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
Wiki ad
4chan raid
Thomas James Bell, new information
- (reliable sources. --Orange Mike | Talk 13:33, 30 June 2011 (UTC)]
Happy Birthday
![](//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3d/Nuvola_apps_cookie.svg/50px-Nuvola_apps_cookie.svg.png)
Just a happy Birthday message to you, Master of Puppets, from the Wikipedia Birthday Committee! Have a great day!
Monterey Bay (talk) 02:00, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
User:BillyMoses
Natami
AFD
- Your input is appreciated, though there's nothing I can do with it but take a note. If you'd like, you can weigh in at the next AfD(s), when/if they arise. Cheers, m.o.p 19:42, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
Dr Myko San – Health from Mushrooms
- I'd be happy to help! However, I'm currently away from a computer (typing this on my phone), so I'll have to check in on the 11th of July. Does that sound okay? m.o.p 15:40, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
- wp:NODEADLINE :-) LeadSongDog come howl! 15:48, 7 July 2011 (UTC)]
From a former Wikipedian
-71.234.90.0 (talk) 04:50, 8 July 2011 (UTC)
- Hey, thanks so much! I'm not sure who you are, but I really appreciate the sentiment. Hope all is well! m.o.p 20:49, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
Deletion review for Thomas James Ball
DRV comment
DRV
Could you please overturn the deletion of these files per File:Signature of Amitabh Bachchan.svg and File:Signature of Zakir Hussain.svg:
- File:Signature of Vishwanathan Anand.svg
- File:Signature of Vijay Mallya.svg
- File:Signature of Venkaiah Naidu.svg
- File:Signature of Sudeep Bandhopadhyay.svg
- File:Signature of Sonia Gandhi.svg
- File:Signature of Somnath Chatterjee.svg
- File:Signature of Ratan Tata.svg
- File:Signature of Kumar Mangalam Birla.svg
- File:Signature of Rajeev Shukla.svg
- File:Signature of Raj Babbar.svg
- File:Signature of Rahul Gandhi.svg
- File:Signature of Priyanka Vadra.svg
- File:Signature of P. T. Usha.svg
- File:Signature of Narendra Modi.svg
- File:Signature of Nandan Nilekani.svg
- File:Signature of Manish Tewari.svg
- File:Signature of Leander Paes.svg
- File:Signature of Lata Mangeshkar.svg
- File:Signature of Kumar Mangalam Birla.svg
- File:Signature of Karia Munda.svg
- File:Signature of Kapil Sibal.svg
- File:Signature of Kamal Nath.svg
- File:Signature of K. Kamraj.svg
- File:Signature of Jaya Bachchan.svg
- File:Signature of Gautam Gambhir.svg
- File:Signature of Brinda Karat.svg
- File:Signature of Bharatsinh Solanki.svg
- File:Signature of Bhairon Singh Shekhawat.svg
- File:Signature of B. K. Birla.svg
- File:Signature of Azim Premji.svg
- File:Signature of Arun Jaitely.svg
- File:Signature of Aishwarya Rai Bachchan.svg
- File:Signature of Abhishek Manu Singhvi.svg
- File:Signature of Abhishek Bachchan.svg
- File:Signature of Sting.svg
- File:Signature of Br. L. D. Lobo.svg
- File:Signature of VJ Rannvijay Singh Singha.svg
Diligent07Appears to be less than new. See User talk:Raoulduke25 where he states that this is a deliberate series of edits.
- Can you please help defend our collective effort of including the obscene middle-finger incident in the Cheney Mason article? It should be maintained in the article for public interest, etc. Please see the Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard#Cheney Mason discussion page and include your thoughts in favor of having the content remain in the interests of the public, etc
[8], [9] and even imputation that an editor has a connection with the person [10]. He has been on since April, and started off as being experienced on WP IMHO. Kindly keep an eye out please. Especially for any sign of a real "collective effort"? Such as [11]? Cheers. Collect (talk) 11:36, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
A cookie for you!
Keep up the good work defending the "Wiki" against genre warriors. Thanks for the help! talk) 17:31, 13 July 2011 (UTC)]
Hello. You have a new message at Lionelt's talk page.
Semi protection
OK, this thing with the militant atheism page is impossibleThese guys are incredible... I could dig up diffs to show you how they revert and wikilawyer even the SMALLEST attempt to move the article closer to NPOV. But that would take a long time for you to read. How about I show you this instead:
These guys are utterly without scruples. Who in their right mind would remove the NPOV dispute tag when heated arguments have been raging for weeks and NO moves whatsoever have been made to fix the article? Oh right, that would be someone in their right mind who is running a propaganda platform.
Anyway... I wanted to ask your advice on what to do. These guys are impossible to work with. Most of the other editors have given up and refuse to put this page on their watchlist. So what to do then? Request formal mediation? Articles for deletion? Something else?
Me and the other editors would like to see the page replaced with a disambiguation page... since literally ALL the content has already been covered (better) in Criticism of atheism, State atheism and New Atheism.
Obhave (talk) 13:21, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
- Hello User:Master of Puppets. I noticed this conversation and thought I might add that an NPOV policy. Obhave (talk) 13:11, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
- One more thing, m.o.p... my opponents are currently twisting your words to make it look as if you were scolding user:Mann_jess all along. Obhave (talk) 14:42, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
]
User:Jasper Deng page protection
- No worries! m.o.p 19:35, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
Is there a procedure for brutal uncollaborated editing with a destructive intent?I noticed that you recently had problems with proposed brutal editing by Peter S Strempel. Although he has been more sensible on your project in the end (possibly because of your administrator status?) he has not been so with regard to the astrology project pages to which he made a similar 'razor-promise'. Could you please see this Afd request which is one of three he made for major 'history of astrology' articles within the last hour, with a promise on another important page that any comment which is not refrences within 7 days will be removed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Babylonian_astrology
Is there anything that can be done about this officially to stop him wreaking havoc with content whilst he knows that the small group of editors providing content on these pages are already stretched to the limit trying to keep up with what needs to be done? I don't understand what drives some people to want to edit WP like this, but I think it is entriely the result of his ego-stress that when he proposed an edit for a passage, no one favoured it. Hope you can help or advise Zac Δ talk 01:15, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks! assume good faith; I believe that Peter is simply trying to help improve Wikipedia. While his methods may be lacking in some areas, he has displayed a pretty decent grasp on the policies he's trying to enforce.
- However, I agree that he shouldn't be making any changes if they're not discussed with the community first. Do you mind pulling up a few diffs of where he went against consensus? I'll approach him with your concern then. Thanks, m.o.p 03:57, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
- Actually there hasn't been any significant content dispute with Peter. He proposed a change to a section edit which wasn't a very good proposition and a few editors commented but without rancur, and I added a new section post immediately afterwards to point out the proiposed change would contradict with how the definition was given correctly at a later point in the article, outlining how I understood WP policy expected the main astrology article to pull its own content together, along with its summarised content from its daughter pages. Peter never responded to this but other editors started working in that direction immediately. Then, without further discussion or comment, Peter came back four days later to announce an intention to take his 'word razor' to all unreferenced assertions on the main astrology page, its sub-pages, and the portal page itself, to ensure his perceived disagreement was not circumvented in pages he viewed as content forks (I'm still not sure what he means by that). My response to that can be seen - a perfectly reasonable request for him to do what he felt was most productive, but consider that citation-tagging was the way to go. I also placed comments on his talk-page, which you can read if you are interested. That he erupted into a frenzy of AfD requests last night says something, I think, about his unwillingness to discuss and engage in other views. Most of his posts appear as new section declarations that don't appear to have considered the responses other editors give him.
- I've summarised this in the ANI request Dougweller started. The deletion requests were a step too far IMO, and I'm concerned that Peter would spring to such drastic measures in reaction to what he perceives to be me not allowing him to do what he wants to do. I'll be away for a few days so I'm tying up my WP activity now. That underlines my concern that he intends to take such drastic action with only one week's notice of intent. Thanks for looking into this. It would be good if something could be proposed to stop huge problems before they occur. 10:35, 22 July 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zachariel (talk • contribs
)
- One last request. I have just noticed that a related complaint, which is quite serious but has been sidetracked (deliberatly IMO) by Peter's suggestions that I have prevented him from doing what he wants, has been collapsed as "going nowehere" by an unsympathetic editor.
- "Its ben here several days and no admin has even sniffed at a block or ban - clearly you're not going to get admin action. So this should got to WP:DR or WP:RFCU if you want to take it further. I've boldly collapsed this, though I won't be surprised if someone uncollapses it"
- If you can find the time could you at least take a look at that related problem, and consider uncollapsing it, because the issues are serious and have gone beyond the point where Dispute resolution are appropriate. I will be away and have nothing more to add, but the problems identified still remain. Zac Δ talk 10:58, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
What to do?
- I've started a threat at ANI. Those AfDs are purely pointy and if no one objects I'll close them. talk) 06:11, 22 July 2011 (UTC)]
- Replied there. m.o.p 08:20, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
Talk Page on Militant Atheism - Introduction Section
- The update is appreciated, thanks very much. I've been dealing with life for the past two weeks, but I'll be back to close that discussion tonight or tomorrow. Thanks again, m.o.p 22:03, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
- Just bringing this up again, given the current state of this section. I believe the discussion will be archived automatically if not closed. I'm sorry if I sound pushy with you having a lot on your plate of late. If you would prefer, I could alert User:Fastily instead. Turnsalso (talk) 16:55, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
ITN
- I knew that tab I closed had unfinished business on it... thanks. 2008 University of Central Arkansas shootings is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.
The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2008 University of Central Arkansas shootings(2nd nomination) until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on good quality evidence, and our policies and guidelines.
Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article.
talk 14:00, 1 September 2011 (UTC)]
Hey
- Done! Both your userpage and the transcluded page are protected. Cheers, « ₣M₣ » 04:09, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Restored. m.o.p 05:21, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
]
User talk:Joshua the Independent
- My mistake - my block script auto-filled the edit summary. The block was issued due to the user's newfound will to disrupt Wikipedia intentionally. Their previous contributions are welcome, but this behaviour necessitates administrative action. m.o.p 21:52, 13 September 2011 (UTC)
Say hi to your imaginary girlfriend for me
- Well, I do love getting hate mail. Thanks for the laugh! Cheers, m.o.p 05:17, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
...further to the above lovely note, I weighed in on Calabe's talk page - there appears to be more confusion here than at first glance. bou·le·var·dier (talk) 05:19, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
Sorry to drop by again, but Silentsizzlingsausage (talk · contribs) would appear to be a duck. bou·le·var·dier (talk) 05:31, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
- No, it's not an issue! Thanks for the note, blocked. Cheers, WP:SPI. Thanks again, m.o.p 06:13, 14 September 2011 (UTC)]
I have to admit ...
- See the above section. The link is apparently a very subtle spam link that Calabe is removing, and socks are springing up to revert him. Swarm u / t 10:20, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
Moderation
- Alright, I'll make my way back. Thanks for letting me know! m.o.p 05:18, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
User:12.139.96.228
- To be honest, this case is perplexing. Half of this user's edits are constructive (mostly sourced), the other half aren't sourced - and the user won't reply to anybody. I'm also too busy to go through every edit and confirm whether or not it's good. I forgot about this for a while - I'll think about it tonight and figure something out for tomorrow. Thanks for reminding me! m.o.p 05:18, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
Whoops
- Whoops! Must not have been looking when I ran my block script. Thanks for letting me know, I've reblocked them for a far shorter (technically, an infinitely shorter) time. Cheers, m.o.p 22:58, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
Ashleyleggat404
- You're fully right in that the blanking policy covers indefinite blocks. I've removed the user's talk page rights as a result. Thanks again! m.o.p 00:28, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkback
Moderation
- If you look into this please consider whether Anupam's actions on the talk page and the entry itself are violations of WP:OWN. He's been driving off those he disagrees with by bludgening them to death with argument and heavily policing the entry claiming that there is a consensus written in stone despite many dissenting voices. Others have taken to simply calling him "the article's owner." I have had enough of this behavior personally and left him a message about it on his talk page. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:52, 20 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Dear User:Master of Puppets, the above user has misrepresented the occurrences at the article. I started another Introduction discussion at the article's talk page but User:Griswaldo has chosen to edit war over a second NPOV tag, despite the fact that one already exists in the article. He has done so despite the fact that the Introduction is being discussed in a peaceful manner at the talk page, in violation of your injunction: "We've only got consensus on this proposed versions (and loose consensus at that) - please do not attempt to subvert said consensus by making undiscussed changes." I have posted a message on his talk page about this behaviour. Nevertheless, I also do not wish to argue with the user personally and would prefer if you could go back to moderating the discussion between the two parties at the talk page. Thanks for taking the time to read this message. With regards, AnupamTalk 20:58, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- His "injunction?" Adding a neutrality tag to a specific sentence which an editor disputes the neutrality of is hardly "subverting the consensus by making undiscussed changes." Please stop wikilawyering to get your way. There is a growing consensus against your position regarding this article in general as well, despite your aggressive policing of the entry and the talk page. See ]
- I just thought that I would mention that User:Griswaldo, after seeing this message, just now decided to comment in the discussion rather than edit war against consensus further. Thanks for taking the time to read this message. With regards, AnupamTalk 21:51, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- "Edit war against consensus further?" My comment there has nothing to do with your message here. I've made three total edits to this entry ever. One was a copy edit in June, another was reverting an IP vandal, and the third was the revert of your Ownership edit. Please do not insinuate that I'm a edit warrior on this page. It is disingenuous.Griswaldo (talk) 22:08, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Thank you all for approaching me with your concerns.
- Obviously, I do not support Anupam - this is because I'm remaining a neutral third party, and, therefore, can't take sides. However, Griswaldo: please keep in mind that I did ask for all discussion to take place on the talk page. Why not just add your complaints to the talk page? It would have been much easier to discuss.
- I do agree that adding a NPOV tag, while slightly redundant, isn't horrible, but your intent seems to have been to stir discussion on that particular section, discussion that would be much more appropriate on the talk page.
- As for your and Snalwibma's concerns of Anupam trying to 'own' the article, I'm curious as to what you two mean; what 'delusions'?
- Also, Griswaldo, I don't think Anupam meant to insinuate you are an edit warrior (though this is just my take) - rather, they wanted to add the note that you've weighed in on discussion. m.o.p 22:10, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- your intent seems to have been to stir discussion on that particular section - No that's incorrect. I didn't add this tag, I simply reverted Anupam's attempt to own the page when he removed it. I agreed with JimWae's addition of the tag and found Anupam's removal to be unwarranted and a display of ownership.Griswaldo (talk) 22:16, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Note that, for all intents and purposes, reverting somebody is adding whatever is included in your edit, regardless of who put it there first. You revert a removal, you're agreeing with the edition you're reverting to - simple.
- And, if you agreed with JimWae, then we go back to what I was saying earlier - say so on the talk page. Two of you agree? Great! That's closer to consensus. But it means nothing if you express your support by reverting removals.
- Again, as I've asked multiple times, please stop saying that Anupam is owning anything without giving me evidence of it first. m.o.p 22:22, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Dear User:Master of Puppets, thank you for your reply to all of us. The reason User:Snalwibma stated that I was attempting to "own" the article was because I reverted an undiscussed removal from the article, which not only myself, but two other users objected to. In fact, two anonymous IP Addresses also reverted User:Snalwibma. I was open to compromise on the issue and stated that I would accept User:Turnsalso's compromise on the issue. I kindly request you to look at that discussion yourself and get an honest reading of it. Also, the only reason I removed the second NPOV tag was because there was already one present, which I did not remove. I only reverted the addition of a second NPOV tag once and even explained myself on the talk page. When I went to the talk page, I found rude accusations and an anti-collaborative spirit, despite the fact that I have been nothing but polite. I hope this helps. With regards, AnupamTalk 22:25, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry - I know I should not rise to the bait, but I have to object to the comment "The reason User:Snalwibma stated that I was attempting to 'own' the article was because I reverted an undiscussed removal ..." How dare Anupam presume to know what is in my mind! The reason I describe Anupam's attitude to the article as one of ownership is because that is how s/he behaves - "policing" every edit, pronouncing on whether s/he "accepts" or "rejects" it, peremptorily reverting anything s/he does not like, without discussion, presuming to know others' motives, and judging them as fit/unfit to contribute to the article. This has been going on for weeks, if not months. It is impossible to discuss the content of the article, let alone improve the text, because everything is filtered through the approval/disapproval of the article's self-appointed guardian, Anupam. tendentious or disruptive when they bring up certain issues, even when they are clearly in the majority. That is not collaborative. I stopped editing the article heavily because of those issues. I don't have any delusions that my opinion is worth more than anyone else's here, but I would think that the large number of established, experienced editors who are all saying there's a problem, would indicate something. — Jess· Δ♥ 19:45, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
Please reconsider your full protection of Militant atheist
- In case you didn't notice, I asked that people think twice about pointing fingers at each other. If you'd like to start a sockpuppetry investigation, let me know, and we can take that avenue - however, don't accuse other editors of ownership without substance. If you think Anupam is trying to own things, give me something. Diffs, edits, anything. I'll check it out for you, but right now, baseless accusations are not what I'm looking for.
- Also, notice that I protected the article with your edit being the last one. How is that validating the very person you've been reverting?
- The protection will stay until consensus is reached. m.o.p 22:19, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Because protection is what he wants quite clearly. He's stalling conversation and shouting down people on the talk page, where, if you have a look, you'll see he's clearly in the minority. Because of your "injunction" as he calls it, he also claims that no matter how many people agree with a certain change it is illegitimate. I'll be happy to gather some diffs, but my first message to you above was to please look into the situation carefully before acting on it. Did you do that and come to the conclusion that I'm wrong or did you not head that request? Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:29, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Yes, I did heed your request. I don't see any ownership behaviour from Anupam, though, being involved in multiple disputes, I didn't have the time to read every last word on the page, so you're free to provide evidence. However, from what I can see, Anupam's last proposal was supported by the majority - not to count (and I don't mean to imply that I decide where consensus lies by looking at pure numbers), but from looking at pure supports versus opposes, eight people (nine including Anupam) support while four oppose. How does that make Anupam's views a minority? m.o.p 22:37, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- It depends on what view you are talking about. The current RFC on the introduction is something that most people don't even want to engage because most people think this very entry should be split up and integrated into other entries. I reluctantly engaged the RfC just now myself. The last time the more serious question about the entry was asked, several of the new commentators were not around, and there was "no consensus" found because the opposing side was chalk full of SPAs and editors with a view that is outright hostile to atheism (which is a legitimate view to hold, but it is a minority view). Let me find you some diffs.Griswaldo (talk) 22:43, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- User:Griswaldo, that is exactly the issue: you do not want to collaborate with other users on the talk page, which is why you were reluctant to participate in the current RfC. Moreover, there were several SPA's on the side of the opposition as well, including WP:NPOV. In addition, the split was again recently discussed and the specific case to do so was refuted by several editors. As such, there was no consensus for it. I hope this helps. With regards, AnupamTalk 22:52, 20 September 2011 (UTC)]
- No. You are trying to write an article that violates WP:SYNTH because it conflates New Atheism with oppressive communist regimes and their histories of violence. That's hardly NPOV. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:59, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
Hi m.o.p., as someone who occasionally looks at that page (and then washes my hands), I just want to compliment you as having done the right thing in full protecting. By way of unsolicited advice to the involved editors, the best thing they could do is to allow The Wrong Version to sit there a good long time, and devote their energy to other things. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:54, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
]
Yes, please reconsider your full protection of
WP:RS—deserve protection against misinformed reverts. Thanks Geremia (talk) 16:12, 22 September 2011 (UTC)]
Diffs of
- I'm not really sure where the ownership is here; nowhere in our policies is it stated that a user can't promote their RFC on the subject talk page. If it's ongoing and they'd like to move it to the forefront, what's wrong with that? More so, some of your summaries seem inaccurate - in that last diff, you state that Anupam is removing images, yet I only see Anupam adding an image (the peace dove that's at the top of the page). Also, you use repeating examples. m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Well clearly the last diff was wrong. Thanks for the vote of confidence. There are no repeat examples nor inaccurate summaries, just a mistaken copy paste of the second to last diff to the last position as well. I have fixed it. Cheers.
- Using "consensus claims from one RfC to reject changes made to article content
- Same as above. Using the "consensus" bludgeon to get his way. Please note that clearly we ought to edit by consensus, but this consensus is highly disputed, and IMO not there in the first place. The real problem is the way in which Anupam decides to use it like a trump card to remove changes he doesn't like. Ask yourself if all changes post "consensus" have been removed or just the ones Anupam decided he wanted removed.
Master of Puppets do you need more diffs or is this enough?Griswaldo (talk) 23:31, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Well I need more diffs because your "evidence" so far looks like a desperate attempt to incriminate an editor who has been very successful in persuading his colleagues to adopt his proposals. Anupam has presented his proposals, argued the merits and persuaded many editors. Anything you want to tell us about why you're having difficulty doing likewise? – Lionel (talk) 06:02, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- I don't see this is as conclusive evidence, either. And, it should be said - if people are editing against established consensus, then people are free to re-evaluate consensus, but edit-warring against it doesn't make much sense. m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- If not ownership then what is this - [28], [29], [30]? He removes two RfCs started by another editor, and revolving around the question that many of us actually find to be the fundamental question to answer regarding the entry. Then he edit wars to keep these RfCs off the page, claiming again to have some sort of authority stemming from your prior actions. If you aren't willing to do something here I'm going to another administrator and I'm going to ask for your initial "consensus," your strong arm administrating, and your lack of action here to be reviewed as well. Thanks.Griswaldo (talk) 17:08, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Anupam has already apologized for reverting those RfC additions, and we've moved past it. He also didn't claim to have administrative authority, but was waiting for my approval. We've cleared this up, it's not an issue. So no, I'm not going to take any action (as I've said here and on ANI). Now, if you'd like to threaten me and tell me that, since I'm not cooperating with your wills, you'll go to another administrator, that's fine - as I've said, you can seek outside opinions - but remember to keep a cool head, because borderline threats are not appreciated. m.o.p 21:49, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- It was not a threat, "borderline" or otherwise. You are conveniently ignoring a growing number of voices who are all saying the same thing - there is an ownership problem here. The deletion issue has not been "cleared up" as far as I'm concerned. Whenever it is mentioned Anupam insists that he did not "unilaterally" delete the RfCs from the page, which is a blatant distortion, since that is exactly what he did. He continues to act as a policeman at the page, and yes he does continue to cite your authority. Did you bother to read the many diffs I posted above in the second two sections? I will quote three random examples from those I provided for you if you want.
- When he first deleted the two RfCs he wrote: "rv - see discussion with reviewing administrator; approval needed to start another RfC while one is already occurring."
- When he deleted a fact tag that JimWae put into the lede: "rv excessive tagging per talk; tag is already extant in header; do not subvert previous consensus but gain consensus for potential additions per administrative notice"
- When he rejected another recent change to the entry: "accepted edits by User:Jkhwiki; rv removal of longstanding referenced content - see discussion on talk page and gain consensus for action per administrative injunction"
- In talk page comments and in edit summaries he consistently does the same thing. He refers to your authority, either directly or indirectly through your "notice" or your "injunction" as he likes to call it. I never said the claimed to have administrative authority, I said that he's using your authority, by way of your comments, such as the closure of the AfD to bully people. Do you deny that he citing your comments, because if you do then I must have fabricated those quotes. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:32, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
If you say "If you don't do A, then I'm going to go and do B", that's a threat. Anyway, that's not the issue - we've already covered all the issues with the RfC reverting, and Anupam won't do it again. Why keep raising hell over it?
We've already covered everything you bring up. And no, I'm not denying anything. I'm just saying this, and it's very simple: I don't think there has been any blatant ownership here. That's my judgment. If you disagree, again, feel free to raise this with another administrator or on ANI. m.o.p 23:12, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Regarding the new RFC, I still think there has not passed yet too much time since the last discussion about splitting the article. As far as I knew, repeating these sorts of debates (like splitting, deleting, renaming) before a larger amount of time has passed (like 6 months) is usually discouraged. And as others have also argued earlier, even if having multiple RFCs is possible, it's not very useful, and the new RFC seems to discourage further discussion about improving the lead introduction. So preventing multiple RFCs (and also a RFC about an issue debated not too long ago) does not look to me like evidence of bad faith intentions. Cody7777777 (talk) 21:37, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Cody, would you mind linking me to the previous RfC on splitting? m.o.p 21:49, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- The previous attempt to split the article can be found here. Cody7777777 (talk) 21:55, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Response
Yes, it does. Thanks, m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Dear User:Master of Puppets, I just noticed that User:Binksternet started another RfC while a current one is occurring. Is this appropriate? I reverted the addition motioning for one until your response is confirmed. If it is acceptable, then I apologize and will revert my edit. I look forward to your response. With regards, AnupamTalk 15:14, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'll form my reply on ANI. m.o.p 17:12, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- When you do please take into account my comment just above, regarding Anupam's edit warring to remove talk page comments (namely these RfCs) posted by others on the talk page. If you still don't think this is WP:OWN then clearly other administrators are needed here.Griswaldo (talk) 17:15, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Dear User:Griswaldo, how is going to a neutral mediator to address the issue owning the article? I acknowledge that the article is in dispute and as a result, I am asking an administrator for advice in this matter, NOT handling things on my own, as you have done by edit warring. Your WP:OWN allegations have not only been dismissed by this administrator, but by several other users, including, User:Lionelt, User:Cody7777777 and User:NYyankees51. Thanks, AnupamTalk 17:27, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- In reply to Griswaldo: reverting the RfCs was a mistake, but we've cleared that up now. As Anupam has stated at ANI, the intent was not to discourage discussion. If you think my judgment is compromised, you're welcome to seek another administrator's input. m.o.p 21:04, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- And as further evidence of WP:OWN, see this. Anupam adds a comment to everything that anyone else says, as if he/she is the owner of the article and everyone else is a subordinate contributor. This particular instance is pretty benign (although it clutters up the talk page with an unnecessary comment that merely says "I agree"), but I do think that Anupam at least needs to learn how to avoid giving the appearance of thinking he/she owns the article, and to desist from chipping in and saying the same thing over and over again, which almost makes meaningful discussion impossible! SNALWIBMA ( talk - contribs ) 17:31, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- While the input is appreciated, as I've said before, making allegations of ownership without hard evidence isn't going to get us anywhere. Anupam is not stopping others from discussing changes or forming consensus, and that's all that matters - refactoring the talk page or commenting on an issue is not against policy, and I'm not going to tell someone to stop editing because it "looks" like they're doing something wrong. As said above, you're welcome to request another administrator's insight if you wish. m.o.p 21:04, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
COIHi
you've helped me out before, with a conflict of interest problem, so having much more experience than me on wikipedia, I thought I would be bold enough to ask again for help.
Similar problem to last, User_talk:Hobbycraft is editing the HOBBYCRAFT article and making changes that aren't citably right. I think the user name suggest and history suggests a conflict of interest case.
Can you please, speak to them addressing this issue.
Thank you very much for your help.
Markcoulter50 (talk) 22:27, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
- I've blocked that user for username violations. Thanks a lot for letting me know! Keep up the great work, m.o.p 23:00, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkbackcausa sui (talk) 18:47, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Hello. You have a new message at causa sui's talk page. causa sui (talk) 20:54, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Problematic editing on militant atheism
- I hope it's not considered defamatory to repeat the final line: "I merely present the diffs above, and let others draw their own conclusions. Is this a duck? Does it quack? You decide.". Unfortunately, the concerned community no longer has that opportunity. What did you decide on their behalf? Does this duck quack, or not? bobrayner (talk) 15:42, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- It's not your wording, it's the very idea of it. Going to what's allegorically a public place and shouting, "Hey, everybody, this man is a criminal!" is one step below blatantly forming a lynch mob. As I've said, I have no problem with your wording or evidence, just your location of choice. Wikipedia is not, unfortunately, a democracy - letting others draw their conclusions and voice their opinions is not how a sockpuppet investigation works.
- So yes, please don't go restoring any of that section. We're not discussing editors, we're discussing the content they produce. Anything else has a sub-board to deal with it (like WP:SPI).
- Hopefully that clears things up! I'll be happy to answer any more questions should you have them. Cheers, m.o.p 15:48, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Hello User:Bobrayner, I noticed the section you created on the militant atheism talk page. If you do feel the way you do about User:Turnsalso and the anonymous IP Addresses, you can take this up with WP:SPI. Thanks, AnupamTalk 15:52, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
Are you kidding my MoP? Above your write: Going to what's allegorically a public place and shouting, "Hey, everybody, this man is a criminal!" is one step below blatantly forming a lynch mob. AND We're not discussing editors, we're discussing the content they produce. Yet you call this edit by Lionelt "good faith," at WQA? MoP, I would not ask you to agree with me or to like me, but can I please ask you not to insult me with these double standards.Griswaldo (talk) 16:18, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
]
- Griswaldo, I mean no offense when I say this, but I'd appreciate it if you stayed out of discussions which didn't involve you. Also, please don't put words in my mouth. Thanks, m.o.p 16:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I have not put words in your mouth. You said that you would assume good faith about Lionel. If you "assume good faith" it means you assume his edits were in "good faith." If you did not intend that meaning I suggest you reconsider what you wrote. Also, if you want me to "stay out of discussion which don't involve me" then I suggest your first order of business should be to do the same thing yourself. You decided to post at WQA, when there was no mention of you or anything you've done in that thread. Once again, I expect people not to practice double standards. So as long as you cannot show me that you will treat me as you ask to be treated yourself, I will not oblige you. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:21, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Please stop bickering. I'm not quite sure what you're trying to accomplish here. I've already explained what I meant when I said assuming good faith, but I'll explain again: I assumed that Lionelt was not hounding or deliberately haranguing you. I did not say, at any point, that his edit content was good faith, and I've told him not to edit like that again. So please stop accusing me of saying things I haven't said.
- Also, I posted in WQA because, as a mediator in this case and as an administrator, it's my duty to weigh in on administrative noticeboards, especially when the case is an ongoing discussion I've been participating in for three months. It is not your duty to weigh in on discussions on my talk page that don't concern you. I hope the distinction is clear here. m.o.p 20:33, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I think you are confused about something. Content is never good faith. "Editing in good faith" and "good faith edits" refers to the intent of the editor always. It has nothing to do with content. My assumption that you also felt the edits were appropriate comes from the fact that you did not say they weren't appropriate and clearly feel that his intentions were good. If you'd like to set the record straight on that issue you still can. I've asked you twice now to discuss the actual edits that are the focal point of the thread. Also, I moved the thread to ANI, per the suggestion of the editor who marked it "resolved."Griswaldo (talk) 20:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- See Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#User:Lionelt_--_following_my_past_edits_to_drum_up_support_against_me. FYI, I copy pasted the entire discussion because both you and Collect were critical of my initial post and I thought it was the right thing to do to preserve that criticism in the record of the conversation. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:43, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- In reply to your first paragraph: I'm going to give up now, as it seems you're misunderstanding most of what I type, but you're the one who stated that the content was not good faith (as you said, not appropriate), and I agreed - I referred to his intent in replying to you, and said that I assumed good faith in his motives, not his replies. I can't really say that in a clearer way, so my apologies if it's hard to understand. Also, as I've already said, I've left a message for Lionelt about his edits, so clearly I do not feel they're appropriate. m.o.p 20:57, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I, too, find these double standards vexing.
- Which diff is defamatory?
- I had hitherto thought that people on the article talkpage might like to be aware of potential problems with votestacking on the article talkpage (and 3rr evasion, of course). Would it be permitted to add a link to that list of diffs when it's in a different place, or would you consider that defamatory too? bobrayner (talk) 16:23, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- As I said, the information is not defamatory, but the way it's presented is - we have specific processes available to pursue should one feel there are sockpuppets about. However, calling someone out with the intent of informing the community is overstepping your authority and damaging to the accused's character. Also, there's no way a community discussion about whether or not one editor is a sockpuppet can end in anything other than a sockpuppet investigation anyway.
- So, in closing, please don't bring issues like this to the talk page. If you're concerned about votestacking, take it to the appropriate venue - if your concerns are validated, we'll take measures against said puppets. Cheers, m.o.p 16:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I am very disappointed that it's no longer permissible to raise problems with article-editing on the article talkpage. Previous concerns about sockpuppetry were simply ignored; the difference this time is that it's backed by lots of diffs.
- I'm fairly confident that the people concerned have sufficient technical nous to make checkuser draw a blank. And, let's be entirely honest, within minutes of me creating an SPI, an admin of the right persuasion will be getting an email suggesting that an SPI needs their attention. And SPI does not see offsite coordination by a facebook group &c. Finally, any null result at SPI will be used at the article in much the same way as previous administrative decisions have been. So, I do not believe that an SPI will improve either the article, or the encyclopædia as a whole. bobrayner (talk) 17:08, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- If you don't think the pre-existing methods set in place for situations like this are sufficient, you can always raise that concern at the village pump or suggest a policy revision - however, SPI is the venue for these requests, and the only venue. The talk page can not substitute. m.o.p 17:10, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
76.228.226.122Thank you for blocking the anonymous user, who is being counterproductive and rude. (although I think the block should have been one week, but I guess ok at least)
Can you also please try to hide the edit summaries of these edits if possible?
This and
this
Thanks and regards, talk 05:04, 26 September 2011 (UTC)]
- I'll extend the block if this behaviour continues after the block period is over.
- As for the edit summaries, those don't warrant hiding - I apologize for their content, but they don't meet the criteria of what I should remove. It's best just to ignore them for now. Cheers, m.o.p 05:13, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
- Okay, good to know, if I did nothing wrong, no permanent block will be enforced. The IP does not volunteer on WP as an admin and so the disproportionately out of line comments and threats of his should be ignored. --talk 05:19, 26 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Sounds good. We only hide extremely offensive revisions; milder ones stay in the edit history. Thanks again for bringing this to our attention! Cheers, m.o.p 05:31, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
Email
Jasper Deng (talk) 05:29, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
- Reading. talk) 06:00, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Bad Girls Club
- I've blocked Junebea for 2 days for disregarding warnings. m.o.p 20:30, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks for helping :) Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 21:06, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkback
- And again.Griswaldo (talk) 04:24, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
- And again ... but maybe the last. You can settle this question once and for all. See the talk page.Griswaldo (talk) 06:09, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'm sure I'm not alone in wanting to hear your replies to the last responses posed to you at that page. IMO, I don't know why you went down the road you did, but as far as I can tell you're blatantly misrepesenting facts about your own actions when people are brining concerns to you. You might think that since you closed the RfC the matter is settled, but it is not. You're actions have not made my life any more pleasant in the last few days vis-a-vis trying to deal with Anupam's disruption and I think you owe us all answers. So please revisit this thread and deal with the open questions. Thanks.Griswaldo (talk) 02:19, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
- I invite you to stop asking the same question again and again. This would be appreciated. Thanks, m.o.p 02:33, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Block question
- No, I just block obviously bad-faith accounts on sight. Advertising/spam accounts fall under that category. m.o.p 00:37, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Thanks
- Thank you. I've unlocked the article for whatever may come. If I'm needed again, feel free to let me know. Thanks for the kind words again, m.o.p 05:12, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
reminder
- We're still waiting to see if the user understands COI policy (per Ed's question). I'll prod the user and see if they'll answer. talk) 19:20, 30 September 2011 (UTC)]
Nextel logo deleted
- Mmm, good point. What's the link to the logo in question? m.o.p 01:33, 2 October 2011 (UTC)
Support of Sage City SymphonyYou deleted this page before I had a chance to go back in and add the stuff that you wanted to see, including the links within Wikipedia to important composers such as Lou Callabro (who started this orchestra and cites it in his Wikipedia page) and Susan Hurley whose work we premiered (SC is also mentioned in her Wikipedia entry). (Let alone links about the works we have performed.) And we have a web site at www.sagecitysymphony.org, have existed for over 35 yrs and are a significant cultural resource in the Bennington area such that we receive grants from local, statewide and national foundations.
I broke my wrist last weekend and am doing one-handed pecking so it'll take me a few days to get that loaded in. We are going out for a bit now, but I would appreciate your undeleting the page so that I don't have to re-invent the starting part when I go back in tomorrow to add links. Or delete it entirely so that I can start fresh - at this point either would work as long as I can start some serious work on it tomorrow. I am the webmaster by the way, so I do have access to content and more links.
Thank you, Celia Murray — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.228.127.119 (talk) 14:22, 1 October 2011 (UTC)
- It looks like fixed everything up. Best of luck, m.o.p 01:35, 2 October 2011 (UTC)]
Reply on Deterence's talk page
MA
After the beating you took you deserve a cold one--on me! Thanks for being fair and balanced – Lionel (talk) 03:55, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
- Hey, thanks! Glad to help out. :) m.o.p 03:56, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
Deletion of Mau5trap Recordings
--neocharles (talk) 07:33, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Existence does not equal notability - the subject has to be notable to get a Wikipedia page. m.o.p 12:05, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
Questoin re: AIV
- Addendum, actually, I read it very clearly in WP:VANDNOT: "Uploading or using material on Wikipedia in violation of Wikipedia's copyright policies is prohibited, but is not vandalism unless the user does so maliciously or fails to heed warnings." So if a person fails to heed warnings it is vandalism. My mistake here was that I only warned once. --Muhandes (talk) 12:29, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Eh, technically it is vandalism, but the user seems to be trying to improve the Wikipedia - that desire to help is misplaced in this case, as they seem to think that using copyrighted content is actually better. Weird. For most cases, yes, you should report copyvio to AIV - as long as they've been warned sufficiently. m.o.p 12:42, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- OK, he now did it again and the time stamp is after your last warning. Is it vandalism now? --Muhandes (talk) 12:32, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Yeah, if they're outright ignoring warnings. I've blocked for three days. m.o.p 12:40, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
Classmusic
- Oh, I know. But if somebody's lied to my face about using another account - and to other editors working on the article - I'm not about to let them go without a repercussion or two. I'd like Almost-instinct and Voceditnore to look over the article and fix up anything shifty. Also, I'd like Classmusic to respond to my warning, instead of blanking it and ignoring like they have to the above-named editors.
- So, in short, I know that COI doesn't bar editing, but it's enough of a concern that, given the user's recent behaviour, I'll stop them from doing anything until we've figured things out. This isn't too rouge-y, is it? I didn't hear that. Perhaps he is unaware of the sockpuppet investigation findings. Anyhow it seems that DeltaQuad has also blocked the Classmusic account. I left a note on his page about using the unblock template, but re-iterated that he needs to read the COI and Autobiography guidelines and stick to them scrupulously, if he gets unblocked. In the Opera and Classical Music WikiProjects, we get a lot of articles for performers, ensembles, etc. created by their agents and PR people, and often themselves. In my experience, the best I can hope for after one of these tussles is that they'll edit their article according to the guidelines in future. I have yet to find a single one who has ever contributed anything else to Wikipedia. Their only interest in the project is as a PR tool. Having said that, at least it results (after much red-pencilling from other editors) in one new article on a notable subject that we didn't have before and in a small way redresses the pop culture systemic bias here. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 13:40, 5 October 2011 (UTC)]
Danish election
- Never mind, it's been pulled by another admin. All the best, Jenks24 (talk) 11:03, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry about that! I was busy all day and didn't get your message until now. Thanks for letting me know, though! Cheers, m.o.p 19:51, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
3RRHey there! :)
Well WP:CRYSTAL has wined down, however, there's currently a
The Bad Girls Club (season 7). I have notified the two users [32], [33]. The evidence can be found here. They are having an edit-conflict on how the "Duration of cast" should be presented. Since there's no rules regarding anything like that, and it was made up about a year ago, I couldn't warned them to stop their e/c with anything except the 3RR rule. Maybe they need an admin to tell them to stop, so that's why I came to you :) Thanks, Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 01:17, 6 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Temporary page protection requested. Calabe1992 (talk) 01:29, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
sent you an email
- One of your userboxes says you're only 17! I would have sworn you were older than that! ; ) --Kenatipo speak! 23:40, 16 February 2011 (UTC)
Godzilla
- I feel that it doesn't. If you check our crystal ball policy, you'll notice that it says, "It is appropriate to report discussion and arguments about the prospects for success of future proposals and projects or whether some development will occur, if discussion is properly referenced." That policy is meant to stop unsourced conjecture and speculation by editors, so I think we're fine in this case. The Hobbit film project with all its troubles). Here, with Godzilla, the reports are extremely normal. The studio announces its plans for a film, and a director is attached for it (which is not a guarantee). That's what it boils down to, and it's not enough to be more than a news source. Erik (talk | contribs) 16:11, 17 February 2011 (UTC)
- I appreciate that you've explained your position to me (though I did read your points in the AFD thread) but I can't delve into stuff like this. If you're not happy with my close, you're fully welcome to ask another administrator or even open another AFD. m.o.p 16:15, 17 February 2011 (UTC)
- I won't do anything for now. I would just prefer to keep such articles a rarity. Following films for some time, a lot of people tend to create an article about a film the moment it is announced (or the moment something new happens, like a new director). I do like to report discussion (did so at Concrete Island) but it's more a matter of where for me, to ensure topics of enduring notability. I did want to ask, do you think a merge discussion in general would be more beneficial? I feel like an AFD like that foments a keep-or-delete mentality that overrides the in-between solution of reporting discussion under a broader article until we can be near certain a film will exist. Erik (talk | contribs) 16:21, 17 February 2011 (UTC)
- A merge discussion would be great; I could weigh in and such. Feel free to open one up if you'd like to. m.o.p 23:03, 17 February 2011 (UTC)
]
Please respond
userspace
Talkback 16:14, 19 February 2011 (UTC)
Protect my talk page
- Lately, this IP also misused the edit war template on my talk page.Jasper Deng (talk) 00:37, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
Block an IP
E-Mail
nice guyhiii master of puppets,
ok do u know the movie Twilght saga ?
rply me back i want 2 talk 2 u a lot because i like ur pesonalty.BY
talk) 11:58, 28 April 2011 (UTC)]
File source problem with File:MoPuppetarmy.pngThank you for uploading File:MoPuppetarmy.png. I noticed that the file's description page currently doesn't specify who created the content, so the copyright status is unclear. If you did not create this file yourself, you will need to specify the owner of the copyright. If you obtained it from a website, please add a link to the website from which it was taken, together with a brief restatement of that website's terms of use of its content. However, if the copyright holder is a party unaffiliated from the website's publisher, that copyright should also be acknowledged.
If you have uploaded other files, consider verifying that you have specified sources for those files as well. You can find a list of files you have created in your upload log. Unsourced and untagged images may be deleted one week after they have been tagged per Wikipedia's criteria for speedy deletion, F4. If the image is copyrighted and non-free, the image will be deleted 48 hours after 11:44, 11 May 2011 (UTC) per speedy deletion criterion F7. If the file is already gone, you can still make a request for undeletion and ask for a chance to fix the problem. You may wish to read the Wikipedia's image use policy. If you have any questions or are in need of assistance please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. Magog the Ogre (talk) 11:44, 11 May 2011 (UTC)
The Deputy
- Thanks for your reply. My concern was not that Jayjg indicated he would rewrite and did not do so, but that he had agreed to allow more of the disputed section in the article rather than a dismissive sentence or two, but when editors began to delete the entire section based on frivolous reasons, he supported it. It appears now that we have, or are in the process of reaching a resolution. The section is now in the article, reduced substantially to account of Jayjg's concers about undue weight. Mamalujo (talk) 18:40, 27 May 2011 (UTC)
Carla Rushing page deletion
Any further discussion of Sarah Palin will result in a warning, and then a temporary block. Thank you!Hmmm, that might be just a tad excessive. We don't want to suppress all discussion, because that's when the pressure has nowhere to go, and people will go and meatball:ExpandScope.
Since scope is already expanded to international media, forcing scope to expand further might be a bit of a Bad Idea (tm). I recommend Not Going There.
If we're really intent on keeping discussions off of WP, we can always create a wikinews article, and link to the "discuss this article" page.
However, at the moment, people seem to be keeping it down to a dull roar anyway.
--Kim Bruning (talk) 22:44, 6 June 2011 (UTC)
- I think you caught my side point, but I'd like to stress the part I'm trying to tell you to watch out for!
- Long term empirical experience shows that attempts to curtail discussion on wikipedia will not slow down the internet discussion elsewhere (or even on wikipedia). Instead, that's exactly what will feed it more and more steam. So Don't Do That.
- Experience shows that the following approaches work:
- Try to centralize all (spurious) discussion in one place
- keep it as focused on encyclopedic work as possible.
- Treat the new users like new users. They don't know our rules yet. Teach them!
- The foundation would like to see us be more welcoming towards new users. That's a good idea! Let's do that.
- --Kim Bruning (talk) 00:26, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
- And... it went to AN/I (see below) --Kim Bruning (talk) 01:33, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
Edit Notice on Paul RevereYou seem to be asserting some admin right to quench discussion on the talk page by blocking and/or warning with the editnotice that I don't think we have, by policy. IAR doesn't cover stomping on people, no matter how annoying a particular conversation is.
Kelly started a
WP:ANI discussion on this.
Followups probably best on ANI as I am sure others will want to comment. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 01:15, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
- On review - I'm going to blank the edit notice now. If an ANI consensus develops to support restoring it then I'll not object at all, but I think it's novel and enough of a stretch that the default should be "no" unless consensus develops otherwise. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 01:19, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
How does a user find a mentor?
Helen Lucy Burke
Talkback
I did what you asked but the IP reverted it again. PTJoshua (talk) 21:09, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
- You're removing everything I say. Please don't do this. It isn't helpful. --86.45.75.42 (talk) 21:19, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
- I'll talk to them. Sit tight for a second. m.o.p 21:10, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
RE: Deletion of 48gogreen page :ApalejaHello,
Thank you for quick response. I appreciate your reason. but if you do some research you'll find more then 4 or 5 substantial mentions in local or international media - in a newspaper, on a notable website, etc. - to put forward this article.
There is a link on official website of company. http://www.48gogreen.com/static/web
Looking forward for your response. thank you in advance to undelete article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Apaleja (talk • contribs) 08:03, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
Here are some articles from International Press (you can use Google translator-if you use chrome it'll provide option immediately):
http://www.regione.emilia-romagna.it/wcm/cinema/sezioni_primopiano/PrimoPiano/Gadoev.htm
http://domani.arcoiris.tv/girano-un-corto-in-48-ore-e-arrivano-dritti-a-cannes/
http://www.close-up.it/spip.php?article6724
http://www.flashvideo.it/news/9/2578/
http://www.radioemiliaromagna.it/cultura/cinema/videomaker_bolognesi_cannes_corto_ecologico.aspx
Also if YOU HAD READ careful our site you should have see the Press link (those are press links not blogs) with all these web press: http://www.48gogreen.com/static/web
Thank you — Preceding unsigned comment added by Apaleja (talk • contribs) 08:22, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
Final warning On Edit Warring of Efik language disputeIf My Reporting a false article is the reason you want to block me. Then Go ahead and BLOCK me.- I can be Block because I don't care to be part of a web/Encyclopedia of Lies! Although I have contributed anonymously to wikipedia since 2008, I only just signed on a few weeks ago to report an error that I thought was made. But you and your other BIASED administrators have refused to fix this error, instead you're all threatening to block me.
- : According to Wikipedia A false statement/article is removed immediatley it is realized. Yet as am reporting it you all are threatening me for causing disruption.
- You all are saying that I called I called Kwami Slow, Dumb etc. Yet Kwami used the words Ignorance first.
"As for Ukwa, your ignorance is not evidence of anything".
- What is the meaning of IGNORANCE? S/He also said;
"But we cannot have the same article under two names, nor an article on Ibibio-Efik that does not include Ibibio, nor an article on Efik that does not include Efik. A little common sense would be helpful."
- What is meaning of Common sense? Or because Kwami put it very nicely, and mine wasn't? Also I wasn't blanking the Efik page, since I just signed on it takes me a long while to write up an article. According to the statements above, Kwami said I could develop articles on Efik and Ibibio, that is what I was doing when you or your other BIASED administrators returned the articles back to the re-direct.
- : Since wikipedia says a false statement is fixed immediately it is reported, I explained out the mistakes, but Kwami kept insisting that me a native who speaks these languages was wrong and asked for sources. I provided the sources and Kwami Called A brilliant Historian who is a Million times more knowledgable than Kwami on the language;
"utterly ignorant AND not some random idiot who posted a web page".
- Yet you and your other Biased colleges are claiming that am the one attacking Kwami and causing a disruption.
- : Am done with Wikipedia, am going to be taking this issues to the Founder/head by email, once the Ibibio union are involved it might become a legal matter if Wikipedia still continues to portray this misleading information.
I will take this matter to the heads by Email first because they might not be aware of what you all supposed administrators are doing to their image. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ibibiogrl (talk • contribs) 21:41, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
Hi Mops,
Pls read my comments on the ANI page. I think Ibibiogrl means well, she just needs some guidance, and she's not willing to take it from me. — kwami (talk) 22:17, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
- Obviously we would like to have contributors from that part of the world, but Ibibiogrl's record here is so unpromising that I think we need good assurances that something will change in the future. (I would welcome any evidence that Ibibiogrl means well. It is hard to improve the encyclopedia when you have no interest in or respect for its policies. Read her statement above if you are uncertain about that). Mentorship has value only for someone who understands that something has gone wrong and would be willing to work with a mentor. EdJohnston (talk) 22:46, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
- I agree with Ed in this case - I have no grudge against Ibibiogrl, but the editor's attitude, despite multiple pleas for otherwise, remained combative and even insulting at points. If there's a serious expression of guilt and the editor decides they'd like to walk a different path, I'd be happy to help. However, as it is now, I believe the block should stand. m.o.p 22:52, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
- I agree that it would require some indication that she wants help. Just my 2¢ as the person she's most upset with. — kwami (talk) 23:05, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
- For the record, your input is highly appreciated, and very admirable; as the editor in conflict with her, I respect your neutrality and helpfulness. As for Ibibiogrl, we'll see where that goes. Cheers! m.o.p 00:59, 17 June 2011 (UTC)
Can you adopt me i want a new adopter.
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Mr. Pit (2nd nomination)
This isn't personalI belive the AFD on Campaign for "santorum" neologism was closed way to early and am contesting your close.
An editor has asked for a deletion review of Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2011 June 21. Because you closed the deletion discussion for this page, speedily deleted it, or otherwise were interested in the page, you might want to participate in the deletion review. KoshVorlon' Naluboutes Aeria Gloris 12:17, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
James Ball
Thank you for your concern. But I will not be blocked - _I am adding_ wikipedia to adblock. I also feel regret for having donated to the site before, but this will not happen again. Demonuminon (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 23:25, 23 June 2011 (UTC).
Thomas James BallWhy the hell did you delete his page?
Does his suffering mean nothing to you?
Heartless bitch. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.57.206.141 (talk • contribs)
Hey, Master of Puppets, OBVIOUSLY there is a public interested in keeping this article. Restore your deletion. Look at the massive flood of comments regarding your deletion here: http://www.<linkremoved>.com/2011/06/24/the-organized-silencing-of-a-man-publicly-burned-to-death/ and here http://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/i81rw/the_organized_silencing_of_a_man_publicly_burned/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Romerom (talk • contribs) 20:05, 24 June 2011 (UTC)
- Ball HIT A FOUR-YEAR-OLD CHILD, refused to pay child support, called for insurrection, demanded terrorism and violence as a solution, ultimately killed himself (leaving his children without a father) and damaged public property in the process. Even after all that, his incoherent message has mostly been ignored except by the less discriminating people claiming to speak for "men's rights" who haven't bothered to look into the details of his case. (If you really want to damage your cause, adopt a grown man who hits his own four-year-old child and flakes out on his child support as your poster boy.) --Orange Mike | Talk 20:26, 24 June 2011 (UTC) (proud father who has never hit his child in his lifetime)
Hey, "proud father who never hit his child in his lifetime", not everybody is against disciplining their children by spanking. He said his daughter was licking his hand, and he had told her repeatedly to stop. She didn't, and he smacked her. He didn't punch her, or send her to the hospital, or cause any serious injury. Just enough to have his wife baited into calling the police on him by child protective services. As for child support, he paid his child support until the point where he wasn't able to afford it due to an employment issue. Is that such a crazy thing to have happen? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.211.155.1 (talk) 04:28, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
- Again, while I do sympathize with the family and supporters, I am not taking sides, nor do I have any bias in this situation. I am not a feminist, nor am I a misogynist - I am fair and neutral towards all people, whether they be abusive fathers or abused fathers.
- This deletion was enforced solely in keeping with Wikipedia's long-established policies. Mr. Ball's death, while indeed tragic, was not reported throughout the reliable media enough to show his notability.
- I hope this makes sense to all those saddened by Mr. Ball's passing. Cheers, m.o.p 21:04, 24 June 2011 (UTC)
- I understand that you do not think that Mr. Ball's death is something that qualifies as an event and thus deleted said article. I disagree but I do see the merits of your argument. However, you claim to be unbiased in this debate and yet for someone who judges on the letter of the law you break the law and close debate 2.5 days before final judgment is to be rendered. If you have no corner then I ask why make this article a special case that it must be quelled , by your own admission, 2.5 days before any other articles found in similar circumstances are voted upon. I petition you to reinstate and allow the normal course of the discussion continue for the 2.5 days, allow the full opportunity for the pro side to make their case then recluse yourself from the final judgment. This is the only way to ensure transparency so that your claim of neutrality can be believed. CaffOMHW (talk) 03:28, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
- Ahead of things, let me tell you that I appreciate the civility.
- Wikipedia's policies aren't law - they're guidelines. As an administrator, it's my job to apply policy in a way that is completely devoid of bias and benefits the encyclopedia as a whole.
- On a side note, the deletion nomination was closed 1.5 days before the normal time. The page had a whole work week to be saved, rewritten or reworked; however, due to the lack of outside sourcing that carried reliability, there was nothing to keep that wasn't editorialized or unencyclopedic. I would also like to point out that almost every account that voiced their opinion in the 'keep' spectrum had either only edited that page or had edited very little aside from the page. Meanwhile, the deletion argument was put forward by experienced users.
- Though I understand that some people take offense to my early closure, I assure them that one extra day would not have yielded success, and that I took many factors into consideration before closing the discussion.
- Again, thank you for the civility, but I won't be overturning judgment or recreating a deletion discussion at this date. m.o.p 08:17, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
ITNthx for the 2 quick updates of my nom ;)
but also can you see the bolivia one. its got support and very nearly out of the news. we could tack it nearer the border.Lihaas (talk) 22:26, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
Ball closure.
Thank God you are an ambassador for WP, and against censorship, MoP. When Wikipedia fails, and it eventually will, it will largely be because most people don't like to be gamed and would rather not read well cultivated information that is maintained by dishonest brokers who hide behind rules that are never applied in an even-handed manner. The idea that a story is not relevant merely because it is not yet encyclopedic is ridiculous when one sees all the articles which linger on for months or years in the same state. The idea that a story is not relevant because the motivations/justifications of the user are suspect would be grounds for eliminating half the biographical articles in WP. It smacks of an agenda. The appearance of impropriety is as bad as actual impropriety.173.78.20.96 (talk) 04:51, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
- I appreciate the feedback.
- I do my best to maintain an equal, proportionate response in all dealings on Wikipedia; I don't defend things I like, or attack things I dislike, just for the reason of screwing with people. That strikes me as childish. Instead, the most I can do is try to help others understand Wikipedia policies, which are generally mind-bending and hard to grasp (for example, most people ask, "What's the reasoning a war hero isn't considered notable when Donkey Kong is?").
- Maybe one day the policies will change. I mean, most of these were written five, six year ago - the world's changing, and I expect they will with time. But, for now, the guidelines handle what comes in.
- Again, thanks for the input. I appreciate not being personally attacked - it makes it easier to reply. Cheers, m.o.p 05:08, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Natami (2nd nomination)
- The close was thoroughly thought-out, so there's not much ground for me to explore that I haven't already. If you're set on going to DRV, there's nothing I can say which will change your mind, and it's your right to ask for a review. However, current consensus sits at delete (unless the 'keep' side is hiding an ace-in-the-hole reliable source or something). Cheers, m.o.p 04:55, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- So, what about the reliable sources we already brought up in the AfD such as this interview in Amiga Future or this news article from nr2.ru? We've already established that Amiga Future isn't sponsored by a hardware company as one !voter there falsely claimed. On a related note, did you discount the !votes from individuals making misleading statements or those claiming there were "no independent reliable sources"? (I could tell you how that !voter happened to show up there, but he isn't going to like it.) I could also link to forum posts by another delete !voter who showed up there who was very much into a "delete at any cost" mode because he doesn't like "amiga clones". --Tothwolf (talk) 05:11, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- Those sources were there before the previous close, and I, like the previous administrator, do not think they're strong enough.
- I've already covered what kind of rationale was discounted and what wasn't.
- As for your last statement about other editors - I'm not quite sure what your point is, but I don't think it's relevant. As I said, I've discounted any rationale that does not apply policy.
- Cheers, m.o.p 05:33, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- Uh, no...nr2.ru was only brought up in the second AfD. Strong enough is also an argument to be made in a !vote, not a closing statement. --Tothwolf (talk) 05:56, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- My apologies, the Russian source was indeed added after the first AfD. Still too shaky for a stand-alone article, though. Cheers, m.o.p 13:42, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- To follow up on my earlier comment, while I don't really want to get into an "X did this because of Y" sort of thing with regards to this AfD, there were a number of delete !voters who showed up there for personal reasons/vendettas/bias and/or who made false statements about sources. Despite the template at the top of the AfD, the second AfD also didn't suffer from the forum canvassing that the first did. One of the delete !voters actually came by way of the forum and first AfD and was trolling because of his personal dislike of Amiga clones. --Tothwolf (talk) 15:33, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
If they have valid, policy-based rationale, their personal motivation doesn't matter, solely for the reason that an encyclopedia based on liking or disliking things would crumble instantly. I'm sure some of the deletion crew could just-as-easily blame keep voters for being enthusiasts and fans of Natami - but that's not important. As a result, making allegations of personal bias is unnecessary. The help is appreciated, but there's nothing I can do with the information. m.o.p 15:39, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- It matters when someone makes false statements and tries to hide what they are doing behind policy. As for keeps, quite a number appear to be from well established editors who don't appear to be all that interested in Amiga topics. As for myself, I wasn't even aware of NatAmi until the first AfD and didn't even !vote in the first AfD since I thought it was pretty obvious it was headed for a no-consensus close. --Tothwolf (talk) 15:58, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- Again, if their rationale is grounded in policy, their motivation does not matter, simply because it's impossible to discern someone's intent through text, and because the second someone accuses another of favoritism/malicious intent the entire argument turns into a bunch of people shouting, "You're lying." That's why there's nothing I can do with your information in this case. Cheers, m.o.p 16:02, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- Apologies to you, M.O.P., for addressing another editor on your talk page, but I just wanted to jump in this conversation. Tothwolf, with no prejudice against you at all I strongly suggest you take this in perspective. There have been two AFDs and an ANI report over this article. The way you treated me on my talk page threatening DRV because I was a new administrator was, as I feel it, borderline harassing. That you canvassed two other administrators to talk to me was also a below the belt move. In good faith, I relisted the debate and it has closed again as delete. I strongly suggest taking the advice at WP:DGAF into account here and let the issue go. I don't think there will be a problem recreating this article, even pulling the old content back from the deletion log, when the subject has better sources in a broader community. I hold no ill feeling toward you, this is purely honest advice.--v/r - TP 16:46, 27 June 2011 (UTC)]
- TParis, while you are correct in that this talk page is not the place for this, because you brought this up here and you seem to value honest feedback, I'll address this here.
In no way did I ever threaten you with DRV, let alone because you were a new administrator (discussion in question). I did however upon noticing that you had passed RFA only days earlier decide it best not to press you further in public and instead sent you this short email: "Sigh. I just noticed you just finished your RFA. The Natami AfD was a bad AfD to pick to close right out of the gate. It is likely to end up at DRV and given the magazine I mentioned, overturned. I really wish you would reconsider your close. You might have noticed I didn't even !vote in the AfD itself, however I did point out a number of things and took a couple of people to task for making false or misleading statements." That is the only email I sent you about the matter and not once did I ever threaten you with DRV. Please get your facts correct before making statements such as this because such mistakes can have a negative effect on others.
After you replied expressing your disagreement over the sources (and implied that I might be biased because I sometimes contribute to computing-related articles) I asked a number of other administrators (way more than two, actually) what they thought of the AfD's close because I wanted unbiased feedback to see if I was somehow totally off-track before I initiated a DRV. The feedback I got was fairly unanimous in that the close was problematic. Before I had a chance to draft a DRV however, you reverted your own close and relisted the AfD from scratch with a new listing. In no way did I ever "canvass" anyone to "talk to you" and if others did contact you directly, they did so at their own discretion and for their own reasons.
There indeed have been two AfDs, the first of which you closed (although one could also argue that the second was merely a relist of the first). The AN/I "discussion" you also mentioned wasn't really over this article or the first AfD, it was an attempt by someone to game AN/I when they were unable to bully me on their talk page. Please be more careful making these sort of blanket statements in the future because as I mentioned above such statements can cause problems for others. --Tothwolf (talk) 17:38, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- You're email was exactly like your reply here. You like to make threats without actually making them: "such statements can cause problems". There is very little way your email cannot be interpreted as anything other than a threat of DRV because I am a new administrator. This is all I'll say on M.O.P.'s talk page as I came here to offer honest advice and you don't seem interested in it. If you'd like to discuss further with me, you know where to find my talk page.--v/r - TP 17:51, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- TParis, in no way did I ever make an implied threat. While I may be a little blunt and abrasive at times (or maybe I'm just an assume good faith in that you simply misremembered the facts I outlined above when you made this statement here. It is easy to forget a few details here or there and not everyone maintains detailed notes for this sort of stuff (I do, for a number of reasons, although I didn't always).
As far as honest advice goes, this is a two-way street and I gave you my opinion as well. If you choose to ignore and discount it, so be it, but I'd suggest you be much more careful in the future and get your facts correct before you make the sort of statement you made above. Such statements can and do cause problems for other editors. Who knows, it may just be that you've not been around long enough yet to have witnessed people blocked or punished in some way because someone else didn't have their facts together. (If you do decide you want to continue this discussion, perhaps we should take this elsewhere.) --Tothwolf (talk) 18:14, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
]
Heaton Park Hebrew Congregation (2nd nomination)
Natami
Thought you might want to know
- (talk page stalker) That's just the same little ideological website which has been pushing for the "Martyrdom of St. Thomas Ball" attention since day one; no actual new coverage. --Orange Mike | Talk 14:34, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
- I guess I should also mention that the way I found it, was that someone tried submitting it to Fark.com last night. The admins did not greenlight it, so that particular submission/thread did not go to the main Fark page, appearing only to those with Totalfark accounts. The submission said something like "Wikipedia deletes burning man" (I'm not at a computer with TF access so I might not have that exactly right). It might, theoretically, based on the submission, be considered some sort of off-site canvassing (it was submitted with the asinine tag). For what its worth, the thread went uncommented, so I don't think that particular attempt garnered any support. I just wanted to drop a line in case that this was just the first drop of a large storm. If I see anything else, I'll drop a line here. Umbralcorax (talk) 15:58, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
Wiki ad
4chan raid
Thomas James Bell, new information
- (reliable sources. --Orange Mike | Talk 13:33, 30 June 2011 (UTC)]
Happy Birthday
![](//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3d/Nuvola_apps_cookie.svg/50px-Nuvola_apps_cookie.svg.png)
Just a happy Birthday message to you, Master of Puppets, from the Wikipedia Birthday Committee! Have a great day!
Monterey Bay (talk) 02:00, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
User:BillyMoses
Natami
AFD
- Your input is appreciated, though there's nothing I can do with it but take a note. If you'd like, you can weigh in at the next AfD(s), when/if they arise. Cheers, m.o.p 19:42, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
Dr Myko San – Health from Mushrooms
- I'd be happy to help! However, I'm currently away from a computer (typing this on my phone), so I'll have to check in on the 11th of July. Does that sound okay? m.o.p 15:40, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
- wp:NODEADLINE :-) LeadSongDog come howl! 15:48, 7 July 2011 (UTC)]
From a former Wikipedian
-71.234.90.0 (talk) 04:50, 8 July 2011 (UTC)
- Hey, thanks so much! I'm not sure who you are, but I really appreciate the sentiment. Hope all is well! m.o.p 20:49, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
Deletion review for Thomas James Ball
DRV comment
DRV
Could you please overturn the deletion of these files per File:Signature of Amitabh Bachchan.svg and File:Signature of Zakir Hussain.svg:
- File:Signature of Vishwanathan Anand.svg
- File:Signature of Vijay Mallya.svg
- File:Signature of Venkaiah Naidu.svg
- File:Signature of Sudeep Bandhopadhyay.svg
- File:Signature of Sonia Gandhi.svg
- File:Signature of Somnath Chatterjee.svg
- File:Signature of Ratan Tata.svg
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Diligent07Appears to be less than new. See User talk:Raoulduke25 where he states that this is a deliberate series of edits.
- Can you please help defend our collective effort of including the obscene middle-finger incident in the Cheney Mason article? It should be maintained in the article for public interest, etc. Please see the Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard#Cheney Mason discussion page and include your thoughts in favor of having the content remain in the interests of the public, etc
[8], [9] and even imputation that an editor has a connection with the person [10]. He has been on since April, and started off as being experienced on WP IMHO. Kindly keep an eye out please. Especially for any sign of a real "collective effort"? Such as [11]? Cheers. Collect (talk) 11:36, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
A cookie for you!
Keep up the good work defending the "Wiki" against genre warriors. Thanks for the help! talk) 17:31, 13 July 2011 (UTC)]
Hello. You have a new message at Lionelt's talk page.
Semi protection
OK, this thing with the militant atheism page is impossibleThese guys are incredible... I could dig up diffs to show you how they revert and wikilawyer even the SMALLEST attempt to move the article closer to NPOV. But that would take a long time for you to read. How about I show you this instead:
These guys are utterly without scruples. Who in their right mind would remove the NPOV dispute tag when heated arguments have been raging for weeks and NO moves whatsoever have been made to fix the article? Oh right, that would be someone in their right mind who is running a propaganda platform.
Anyway... I wanted to ask your advice on what to do. These guys are impossible to work with. Most of the other editors have given up and refuse to put this page on their watchlist. So what to do then? Request formal mediation? Articles for deletion? Something else?
Me and the other editors would like to see the page replaced with a disambiguation page... since literally ALL the content has already been covered (better) in Criticism of atheism, State atheism and New Atheism.
Obhave (talk) 13:21, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
- Hello User:Master of Puppets. I noticed this conversation and thought I might add that an NPOV policy. Obhave (talk) 13:11, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
- One more thing, m.o.p... my opponents are currently twisting your words to make it look as if you were scolding user:Mann_jess all along. Obhave (talk) 14:42, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
]
User:Jasper Deng page protection
- No worries! m.o.p 19:35, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
Is there a procedure for brutal uncollaborated editing with a destructive intent?I noticed that you recently had problems with proposed brutal editing by Peter S Strempel. Although he has been more sensible on your project in the end (possibly because of your administrator status?) he has not been so with regard to the astrology project pages to which he made a similar 'razor-promise'. Could you please see this Afd request which is one of three he made for major 'history of astrology' articles within the last hour, with a promise on another important page that any comment which is not refrences within 7 days will be removed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Babylonian_astrology
Is there anything that can be done about this officially to stop him wreaking havoc with content whilst he knows that the small group of editors providing content on these pages are already stretched to the limit trying to keep up with what needs to be done? I don't understand what drives some people to want to edit WP like this, but I think it is entriely the result of his ego-stress that when he proposed an edit for a passage, no one favoured it. Hope you can help or advise Zac Δ talk 01:15, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks! assume good faith; I believe that Peter is simply trying to help improve Wikipedia. While his methods may be lacking in some areas, he has displayed a pretty decent grasp on the policies he's trying to enforce.
- However, I agree that he shouldn't be making any changes if they're not discussed with the community first. Do you mind pulling up a few diffs of where he went against consensus? I'll approach him with your concern then. Thanks, m.o.p 03:57, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
- Actually there hasn't been any significant content dispute with Peter. He proposed a change to a section edit which wasn't a very good proposition and a few editors commented but without rancur, and I added a new section post immediately afterwards to point out the proiposed change would contradict with how the definition was given correctly at a later point in the article, outlining how I understood WP policy expected the main astrology article to pull its own content together, along with its summarised content from its daughter pages. Peter never responded to this but other editors started working in that direction immediately. Then, without further discussion or comment, Peter came back four days later to announce an intention to take his 'word razor' to all unreferenced assertions on the main astrology page, its sub-pages, and the portal page itself, to ensure his perceived disagreement was not circumvented in pages he viewed as content forks (I'm still not sure what he means by that). My response to that can be seen - a perfectly reasonable request for him to do what he felt was most productive, but consider that citation-tagging was the way to go. I also placed comments on his talk-page, which you can read if you are interested. That he erupted into a frenzy of AfD requests last night says something, I think, about his unwillingness to discuss and engage in other views. Most of his posts appear as new section declarations that don't appear to have considered the responses other editors give him.
- I've summarised this in the ANI request Dougweller started. The deletion requests were a step too far IMO, and I'm concerned that Peter would spring to such drastic measures in reaction to what he perceives to be me not allowing him to do what he wants to do. I'll be away for a few days so I'm tying up my WP activity now. That underlines my concern that he intends to take such drastic action with only one week's notice of intent. Thanks for looking into this. It would be good if something could be proposed to stop huge problems before they occur. 10:35, 22 July 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zachariel (talk • contribs
)
- One last request. I have just noticed that a related complaint, which is quite serious but has been sidetracked (deliberatly IMO) by Peter's suggestions that I have prevented him from doing what he wants, has been collapsed as "going nowehere" by an unsympathetic editor.
- "Its ben here several days and no admin has even sniffed at a block or ban - clearly you're not going to get admin action. So this should got to WP:DR or WP:RFCU if you want to take it further. I've boldly collapsed this, though I won't be surprised if someone uncollapses it"
- If you can find the time could you at least take a look at that related problem, and consider uncollapsing it, because the issues are serious and have gone beyond the point where Dispute resolution are appropriate. I will be away and have nothing more to add, but the problems identified still remain. Zac Δ talk 10:58, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
What to do?
- I've started a threat at ANI. Those AfDs are purely pointy and if no one objects I'll close them. talk) 06:11, 22 July 2011 (UTC)]
- Replied there. m.o.p 08:20, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
Talk Page on Militant Atheism - Introduction Section
- The update is appreciated, thanks very much. I've been dealing with life for the past two weeks, but I'll be back to close that discussion tonight or tomorrow. Thanks again, m.o.p 22:03, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
- Just bringing this up again, given the current state of this section. I believe the discussion will be archived automatically if not closed. I'm sorry if I sound pushy with you having a lot on your plate of late. If you would prefer, I could alert User:Fastily instead. Turnsalso (talk) 16:55, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
ITN
- I knew that tab I closed had unfinished business on it... thanks. 2008 University of Central Arkansas shootings is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.
The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2008 University of Central Arkansas shootings(2nd nomination) until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on good quality evidence, and our policies and guidelines.
Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article.
talk 14:00, 1 September 2011 (UTC)]
Hey
- Done! Both your userpage and the transcluded page are protected. Cheers, « ₣M₣ » 04:09, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Restored. m.o.p 05:21, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
]
User talk:Joshua the Independent
- My mistake - my block script auto-filled the edit summary. The block was issued due to the user's newfound will to disrupt Wikipedia intentionally. Their previous contributions are welcome, but this behaviour necessitates administrative action. m.o.p 21:52, 13 September 2011 (UTC)
Say hi to your imaginary girlfriend for me
- Well, I do love getting hate mail. Thanks for the laugh! Cheers, m.o.p 05:17, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
...further to the above lovely note, I weighed in on Calabe's talk page - there appears to be more confusion here than at first glance. bou·le·var·dier (talk) 05:19, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
Sorry to drop by again, but Silentsizzlingsausage (talk · contribs) would appear to be a duck. bou·le·var·dier (talk) 05:31, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
- No, it's not an issue! Thanks for the note, blocked. Cheers, WP:SPI. Thanks again, m.o.p 06:13, 14 September 2011 (UTC)]
I have to admit ...
- See the above section. The link is apparently a very subtle spam link that Calabe is removing, and socks are springing up to revert him. Swarm u / t 10:20, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
Moderation
- Alright, I'll make my way back. Thanks for letting me know! m.o.p 05:18, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
User:12.139.96.228
- To be honest, this case is perplexing. Half of this user's edits are constructive (mostly sourced), the other half aren't sourced - and the user won't reply to anybody. I'm also too busy to go through every edit and confirm whether or not it's good. I forgot about this for a while - I'll think about it tonight and figure something out for tomorrow. Thanks for reminding me! m.o.p 05:18, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
Whoops
- Whoops! Must not have been looking when I ran my block script. Thanks for letting me know, I've reblocked them for a far shorter (technically, an infinitely shorter) time. Cheers, m.o.p 22:58, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
Ashleyleggat404
- You're fully right in that the blanking policy covers indefinite blocks. I've removed the user's talk page rights as a result. Thanks again! m.o.p 00:28, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkback
Moderation
- If you look into this please consider whether Anupam's actions on the talk page and the entry itself are violations of WP:OWN. He's been driving off those he disagrees with by bludgening them to death with argument and heavily policing the entry claiming that there is a consensus written in stone despite many dissenting voices. Others have taken to simply calling him "the article's owner." I have had enough of this behavior personally and left him a message about it on his talk page. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:52, 20 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Dear User:Master of Puppets, the above user has misrepresented the occurrences at the article. I started another Introduction discussion at the article's talk page but User:Griswaldo has chosen to edit war over a second NPOV tag, despite the fact that one already exists in the article. He has done so despite the fact that the Introduction is being discussed in a peaceful manner at the talk page, in violation of your injunction: "We've only got consensus on this proposed versions (and loose consensus at that) - please do not attempt to subvert said consensus by making undiscussed changes." I have posted a message on his talk page about this behaviour. Nevertheless, I also do not wish to argue with the user personally and would prefer if you could go back to moderating the discussion between the two parties at the talk page. Thanks for taking the time to read this message. With regards, AnupamTalk 20:58, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- His "injunction?" Adding a neutrality tag to a specific sentence which an editor disputes the neutrality of is hardly "subverting the consensus by making undiscussed changes." Please stop wikilawyering to get your way. There is a growing consensus against your position regarding this article in general as well, despite your aggressive policing of the entry and the talk page. See ]
- I just thought that I would mention that User:Griswaldo, after seeing this message, just now decided to comment in the discussion rather than edit war against consensus further. Thanks for taking the time to read this message. With regards, AnupamTalk 21:51, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- "Edit war against consensus further?" My comment there has nothing to do with your message here. I've made three total edits to this entry ever. One was a copy edit in June, another was reverting an IP vandal, and the third was the revert of your Ownership edit. Please do not insinuate that I'm a edit warrior on this page. It is disingenuous.Griswaldo (talk) 22:08, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Thank you all for approaching me with your concerns.
- Obviously, I do not support Anupam - this is because I'm remaining a neutral third party, and, therefore, can't take sides. However, Griswaldo: please keep in mind that I did ask for all discussion to take place on the talk page. Why not just add your complaints to the talk page? It would have been much easier to discuss.
- I do agree that adding a NPOV tag, while slightly redundant, isn't horrible, but your intent seems to have been to stir discussion on that particular section, discussion that would be much more appropriate on the talk page.
- As for your and Snalwibma's concerns of Anupam trying to 'own' the article, I'm curious as to what you two mean; what 'delusions'?
- Also, Griswaldo, I don't think Anupam meant to insinuate you are an edit warrior (though this is just my take) - rather, they wanted to add the note that you've weighed in on discussion. m.o.p 22:10, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- your intent seems to have been to stir discussion on that particular section - No that's incorrect. I didn't add this tag, I simply reverted Anupam's attempt to own the page when he removed it. I agreed with JimWae's addition of the tag and found Anupam's removal to be unwarranted and a display of ownership.Griswaldo (talk) 22:16, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Note that, for all intents and purposes, reverting somebody is adding whatever is included in your edit, regardless of who put it there first. You revert a removal, you're agreeing with the edition you're reverting to - simple.
- And, if you agreed with JimWae, then we go back to what I was saying earlier - say so on the talk page. Two of you agree? Great! That's closer to consensus. But it means nothing if you express your support by reverting removals.
- Again, as I've asked multiple times, please stop saying that Anupam is owning anything without giving me evidence of it first. m.o.p 22:22, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Dear User:Master of Puppets, thank you for your reply to all of us. The reason User:Snalwibma stated that I was attempting to "own" the article was because I reverted an undiscussed removal from the article, which not only myself, but two other users objected to. In fact, two anonymous IP Addresses also reverted User:Snalwibma. I was open to compromise on the issue and stated that I would accept User:Turnsalso's compromise on the issue. I kindly request you to look at that discussion yourself and get an honest reading of it. Also, the only reason I removed the second NPOV tag was because there was already one present, which I did not remove. I only reverted the addition of a second NPOV tag once and even explained myself on the talk page. When I went to the talk page, I found rude accusations and an anti-collaborative spirit, despite the fact that I have been nothing but polite. I hope this helps. With regards, AnupamTalk 22:25, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry - I know I should not rise to the bait, but I have to object to the comment "The reason User:Snalwibma stated that I was attempting to 'own' the article was because I reverted an undiscussed removal ..." How dare Anupam presume to know what is in my mind! The reason I describe Anupam's attitude to the article as one of ownership is because that is how s/he behaves - "policing" every edit, pronouncing on whether s/he "accepts" or "rejects" it, peremptorily reverting anything s/he does not like, without discussion, presuming to know others' motives, and judging them as fit/unfit to contribute to the article. This has been going on for weeks, if not months. It is impossible to discuss the content of the article, let alone improve the text, because everything is filtered through the approval/disapproval of the article's self-appointed guardian, Anupam. tendentious or disruptive when they bring up certain issues, even when they are clearly in the majority. That is not collaborative. I stopped editing the article heavily because of those issues. I don't have any delusions that my opinion is worth more than anyone else's here, but I would think that the large number of established, experienced editors who are all saying there's a problem, would indicate something. — Jess· Δ♥ 19:45, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
Please reconsider your full protection of Militant atheist
- In case you didn't notice, I asked that people think twice about pointing fingers at each other. If you'd like to start a sockpuppetry investigation, let me know, and we can take that avenue - however, don't accuse other editors of ownership without substance. If you think Anupam is trying to own things, give me something. Diffs, edits, anything. I'll check it out for you, but right now, baseless accusations are not what I'm looking for.
- Also, notice that I protected the article with your edit being the last one. How is that validating the very person you've been reverting?
- The protection will stay until consensus is reached. m.o.p 22:19, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Because protection is what he wants quite clearly. He's stalling conversation and shouting down people on the talk page, where, if you have a look, you'll see he's clearly in the minority. Because of your "injunction" as he calls it, he also claims that no matter how many people agree with a certain change it is illegitimate. I'll be happy to gather some diffs, but my first message to you above was to please look into the situation carefully before acting on it. Did you do that and come to the conclusion that I'm wrong or did you not head that request? Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:29, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Yes, I did heed your request. I don't see any ownership behaviour from Anupam, though, being involved in multiple disputes, I didn't have the time to read every last word on the page, so you're free to provide evidence. However, from what I can see, Anupam's last proposal was supported by the majority - not to count (and I don't mean to imply that I decide where consensus lies by looking at pure numbers), but from looking at pure supports versus opposes, eight people (nine including Anupam) support while four oppose. How does that make Anupam's views a minority? m.o.p 22:37, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- It depends on what view you are talking about. The current RFC on the introduction is something that most people don't even want to engage because most people think this very entry should be split up and integrated into other entries. I reluctantly engaged the RfC just now myself. The last time the more serious question about the entry was asked, several of the new commentators were not around, and there was "no consensus" found because the opposing side was chalk full of SPAs and editors with a view that is outright hostile to atheism (which is a legitimate view to hold, but it is a minority view). Let me find you some diffs.Griswaldo (talk) 22:43, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- User:Griswaldo, that is exactly the issue: you do not want to collaborate with other users on the talk page, which is why you were reluctant to participate in the current RfC. Moreover, there were several SPA's on the side of the opposition as well, including WP:NPOV. In addition, the split was again recently discussed and the specific case to do so was refuted by several editors. As such, there was no consensus for it. I hope this helps. With regards, AnupamTalk 22:52, 20 September 2011 (UTC)]
- No. You are trying to write an article that violates WP:SYNTH because it conflates New Atheism with oppressive communist regimes and their histories of violence. That's hardly NPOV. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:59, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
Hi m.o.p., as someone who occasionally looks at that page (and then washes my hands), I just want to compliment you as having done the right thing in full protecting. By way of unsolicited advice to the involved editors, the best thing they could do is to allow The Wrong Version to sit there a good long time, and devote their energy to other things. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:54, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
]
Yes, please reconsider your full protection of
WP:RS—deserve protection against misinformed reverts. Thanks Geremia (talk) 16:12, 22 September 2011 (UTC)]
Diffs of
- I'm not really sure where the ownership is here; nowhere in our policies is it stated that a user can't promote their RFC on the subject talk page. If it's ongoing and they'd like to move it to the forefront, what's wrong with that? More so, some of your summaries seem inaccurate - in that last diff, you state that Anupam is removing images, yet I only see Anupam adding an image (the peace dove that's at the top of the page). Also, you use repeating examples. m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Well clearly the last diff was wrong. Thanks for the vote of confidence. There are no repeat examples nor inaccurate summaries, just a mistaken copy paste of the second to last diff to the last position as well. I have fixed it. Cheers.
- Using "consensus claims from one RfC to reject changes made to article content
- Same as above. Using the "consensus" bludgeon to get his way. Please note that clearly we ought to edit by consensus, but this consensus is highly disputed, and IMO not there in the first place. The real problem is the way in which Anupam decides to use it like a trump card to remove changes he doesn't like. Ask yourself if all changes post "consensus" have been removed or just the ones Anupam decided he wanted removed.
Master of Puppets do you need more diffs or is this enough?Griswaldo (talk) 23:31, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Well I need more diffs because your "evidence" so far looks like a desperate attempt to incriminate an editor who has been very successful in persuading his colleagues to adopt his proposals. Anupam has presented his proposals, argued the merits and persuaded many editors. Anything you want to tell us about why you're having difficulty doing likewise? – Lionel (talk) 06:02, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- I don't see this is as conclusive evidence, either. And, it should be said - if people are editing against established consensus, then people are free to re-evaluate consensus, but edit-warring against it doesn't make much sense. m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- If not ownership then what is this - [28], [29], [30]? He removes two RfCs started by another editor, and revolving around the question that many of us actually find to be the fundamental question to answer regarding the entry. Then he edit wars to keep these RfCs off the page, claiming again to have some sort of authority stemming from your prior actions. If you aren't willing to do something here I'm going to another administrator and I'm going to ask for your initial "consensus," your strong arm administrating, and your lack of action here to be reviewed as well. Thanks.Griswaldo (talk) 17:08, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Anupam has already apologized for reverting those RfC additions, and we've moved past it. He also didn't claim to have administrative authority, but was waiting for my approval. We've cleared this up, it's not an issue. So no, I'm not going to take any action (as I've said here and on ANI). Now, if you'd like to threaten me and tell me that, since I'm not cooperating with your wills, you'll go to another administrator, that's fine - as I've said, you can seek outside opinions - but remember to keep a cool head, because borderline threats are not appreciated. m.o.p 21:49, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- It was not a threat, "borderline" or otherwise. You are conveniently ignoring a growing number of voices who are all saying the same thing - there is an ownership problem here. The deletion issue has not been "cleared up" as far as I'm concerned. Whenever it is mentioned Anupam insists that he did not "unilaterally" delete the RfCs from the page, which is a blatant distortion, since that is exactly what he did. He continues to act as a policeman at the page, and yes he does continue to cite your authority. Did you bother to read the many diffs I posted above in the second two sections? I will quote three random examples from those I provided for you if you want.
- When he first deleted the two RfCs he wrote: "rv - see discussion with reviewing administrator; approval needed to start another RfC while one is already occurring."
- When he deleted a fact tag that JimWae put into the lede: "rv excessive tagging per talk; tag is already extant in header; do not subvert previous consensus but gain consensus for potential additions per administrative notice"
- When he rejected another recent change to the entry: "accepted edits by User:Jkhwiki; rv removal of longstanding referenced content - see discussion on talk page and gain consensus for action per administrative injunction"
- In talk page comments and in edit summaries he consistently does the same thing. He refers to your authority, either directly or indirectly through your "notice" or your "injunction" as he likes to call it. I never said the claimed to have administrative authority, I said that he's using your authority, by way of your comments, such as the closure of the AfD to bully people. Do you deny that he citing your comments, because if you do then I must have fabricated those quotes. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:32, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
If you say "If you don't do A, then I'm going to go and do B", that's a threat. Anyway, that's not the issue - we've already covered all the issues with the RfC reverting, and Anupam won't do it again. Why keep raising hell over it?
We've already covered everything you bring up. And no, I'm not denying anything. I'm just saying this, and it's very simple: I don't think there has been any blatant ownership here. That's my judgment. If you disagree, again, feel free to raise this with another administrator or on ANI. m.o.p 23:12, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Regarding the new RFC, I still think there has not passed yet too much time since the last discussion about splitting the article. As far as I knew, repeating these sorts of debates (like splitting, deleting, renaming) before a larger amount of time has passed (like 6 months) is usually discouraged. And as others have also argued earlier, even if having multiple RFCs is possible, it's not very useful, and the new RFC seems to discourage further discussion about improving the lead introduction. So preventing multiple RFCs (and also a RFC about an issue debated not too long ago) does not look to me like evidence of bad faith intentions. Cody7777777 (talk) 21:37, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Cody, would you mind linking me to the previous RfC on splitting? m.o.p 21:49, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- The previous attempt to split the article can be found here. Cody7777777 (talk) 21:55, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Response
Yes, it does. Thanks, m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Dear User:Master of Puppets, I just noticed that User:Binksternet started another RfC while a current one is occurring. Is this appropriate? I reverted the addition motioning for one until your response is confirmed. If it is acceptable, then I apologize and will revert my edit. I look forward to your response. With regards, AnupamTalk 15:14, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'll form my reply on ANI. m.o.p 17:12, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- When you do please take into account my comment just above, regarding Anupam's edit warring to remove talk page comments (namely these RfCs) posted by others on the talk page. If you still don't think this is WP:OWN then clearly other administrators are needed here.Griswaldo (talk) 17:15, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Dear User:Griswaldo, how is going to a neutral mediator to address the issue owning the article? I acknowledge that the article is in dispute and as a result, I am asking an administrator for advice in this matter, NOT handling things on my own, as you have done by edit warring. Your WP:OWN allegations have not only been dismissed by this administrator, but by several other users, including, User:Lionelt, User:Cody7777777 and User:NYyankees51. Thanks, AnupamTalk 17:27, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- In reply to Griswaldo: reverting the RfCs was a mistake, but we've cleared that up now. As Anupam has stated at ANI, the intent was not to discourage discussion. If you think my judgment is compromised, you're welcome to seek another administrator's input. m.o.p 21:04, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- And as further evidence of WP:OWN, see this. Anupam adds a comment to everything that anyone else says, as if he/she is the owner of the article and everyone else is a subordinate contributor. This particular instance is pretty benign (although it clutters up the talk page with an unnecessary comment that merely says "I agree"), but I do think that Anupam at least needs to learn how to avoid giving the appearance of thinking he/she owns the article, and to desist from chipping in and saying the same thing over and over again, which almost makes meaningful discussion impossible! SNALWIBMA ( talk - contribs ) 17:31, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- While the input is appreciated, as I've said before, making allegations of ownership without hard evidence isn't going to get us anywhere. Anupam is not stopping others from discussing changes or forming consensus, and that's all that matters - refactoring the talk page or commenting on an issue is not against policy, and I'm not going to tell someone to stop editing because it "looks" like they're doing something wrong. As said above, you're welcome to request another administrator's insight if you wish. m.o.p 21:04, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
COIHi
you've helped me out before, with a conflict of interest problem, so having much more experience than me on wikipedia, I thought I would be bold enough to ask again for help.
Similar problem to last, User_talk:Hobbycraft is editing the HOBBYCRAFT article and making changes that aren't citably right. I think the user name suggest and history suggests a conflict of interest case.
Can you please, speak to them addressing this issue.
Thank you very much for your help.
Markcoulter50 (talk) 22:27, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
- I've blocked that user for username violations. Thanks a lot for letting me know! Keep up the great work, m.o.p 23:00, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkbackcausa sui (talk) 18:47, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Hello. You have a new message at causa sui's talk page. causa sui (talk) 20:54, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Problematic editing on militant atheism
- I hope it's not considered defamatory to repeat the final line: "I merely present the diffs above, and let others draw their own conclusions. Is this a duck? Does it quack? You decide.". Unfortunately, the concerned community no longer has that opportunity. What did you decide on their behalf? Does this duck quack, or not? bobrayner (talk) 15:42, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- It's not your wording, it's the very idea of it. Going to what's allegorically a public place and shouting, "Hey, everybody, this man is a criminal!" is one step below blatantly forming a lynch mob. As I've said, I have no problem with your wording or evidence, just your location of choice. Wikipedia is not, unfortunately, a democracy - letting others draw their conclusions and voice their opinions is not how a sockpuppet investigation works.
- So yes, please don't go restoring any of that section. We're not discussing editors, we're discussing the content they produce. Anything else has a sub-board to deal with it (like WP:SPI).
- Hopefully that clears things up! I'll be happy to answer any more questions should you have them. Cheers, m.o.p 15:48, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Hello User:Bobrayner, I noticed the section you created on the militant atheism talk page. If you do feel the way you do about User:Turnsalso and the anonymous IP Addresses, you can take this up with WP:SPI. Thanks, AnupamTalk 15:52, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
Are you kidding my MoP? Above your write: Going to what's allegorically a public place and shouting, "Hey, everybody, this man is a criminal!" is one step below blatantly forming a lynch mob. AND We're not discussing editors, we're discussing the content they produce. Yet you call this edit by Lionelt "good faith," at WQA? MoP, I would not ask you to agree with me or to like me, but can I please ask you not to insult me with these double standards.Griswaldo (talk) 16:18, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
]
- Griswaldo, I mean no offense when I say this, but I'd appreciate it if you stayed out of discussions which didn't involve you. Also, please don't put words in my mouth. Thanks, m.o.p 16:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I have not put words in your mouth. You said that you would assume good faith about Lionel. If you "assume good faith" it means you assume his edits were in "good faith." If you did not intend that meaning I suggest you reconsider what you wrote. Also, if you want me to "stay out of discussion which don't involve me" then I suggest your first order of business should be to do the same thing yourself. You decided to post at WQA, when there was no mention of you or anything you've done in that thread. Once again, I expect people not to practice double standards. So as long as you cannot show me that you will treat me as you ask to be treated yourself, I will not oblige you. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:21, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Please stop bickering. I'm not quite sure what you're trying to accomplish here. I've already explained what I meant when I said assuming good faith, but I'll explain again: I assumed that Lionelt was not hounding or deliberately haranguing you. I did not say, at any point, that his edit content was good faith, and I've told him not to edit like that again. So please stop accusing me of saying things I haven't said.
- Also, I posted in WQA because, as a mediator in this case and as an administrator, it's my duty to weigh in on administrative noticeboards, especially when the case is an ongoing discussion I've been participating in for three months. It is not your duty to weigh in on discussions on my talk page that don't concern you. I hope the distinction is clear here. m.o.p 20:33, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I think you are confused about something. Content is never good faith. "Editing in good faith" and "good faith edits" refers to the intent of the editor always. It has nothing to do with content. My assumption that you also felt the edits were appropriate comes from the fact that you did not say they weren't appropriate and clearly feel that his intentions were good. If you'd like to set the record straight on that issue you still can. I've asked you twice now to discuss the actual edits that are the focal point of the thread. Also, I moved the thread to ANI, per the suggestion of the editor who marked it "resolved."Griswaldo (talk) 20:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- See Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#User:Lionelt_--_following_my_past_edits_to_drum_up_support_against_me. FYI, I copy pasted the entire discussion because both you and Collect were critical of my initial post and I thought it was the right thing to do to preserve that criticism in the record of the conversation. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:43, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- In reply to your first paragraph: I'm going to give up now, as it seems you're misunderstanding most of what I type, but you're the one who stated that the content was not good faith (as you said, not appropriate), and I agreed - I referred to his intent in replying to you, and said that I assumed good faith in his motives, not his replies. I can't really say that in a clearer way, so my apologies if it's hard to understand. Also, as I've already said, I've left a message for Lionelt about his edits, so clearly I do not feel they're appropriate. m.o.p 20:57, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I, too, find these double standards vexing.
- Which diff is defamatory?
- I had hitherto thought that people on the article talkpage might like to be aware of potential problems with votestacking on the article talkpage (and 3rr evasion, of course). Would it be permitted to add a link to that list of diffs when it's in a different place, or would you consider that defamatory too? bobrayner (talk) 16:23, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- As I said, the information is not defamatory, but the way it's presented is - we have specific processes available to pursue should one feel there are sockpuppets about. However, calling someone out with the intent of informing the community is overstepping your authority and damaging to the accused's character. Also, there's no way a community discussion about whether or not one editor is a sockpuppet can end in anything other than a sockpuppet investigation anyway.
- So, in closing, please don't bring issues like this to the talk page. If you're concerned about votestacking, take it to the appropriate venue - if your concerns are validated, we'll take measures against said puppets. Cheers, m.o.p 16:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I am very disappointed that it's no longer permissible to raise problems with article-editing on the article talkpage. Previous concerns about sockpuppetry were simply ignored; the difference this time is that it's backed by lots of diffs.
- I'm fairly confident that the people concerned have sufficient technical nous to make checkuser draw a blank. And, let's be entirely honest, within minutes of me creating an SPI, an admin of the right persuasion will be getting an email suggesting that an SPI needs their attention. And SPI does not see offsite coordination by a facebook group &c. Finally, any null result at SPI will be used at the article in much the same way as previous administrative decisions have been. So, I do not believe that an SPI will improve either the article, or the encyclopædia as a whole. bobrayner (talk) 17:08, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- If you don't think the pre-existing methods set in place for situations like this are sufficient, you can always raise that concern at the village pump or suggest a policy revision - however, SPI is the venue for these requests, and the only venue. The talk page can not substitute. m.o.p 17:10, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
76.228.226.122Thank you for blocking the anonymous user, who is being counterproductive and rude. (although I think the block should have been one week, but I guess ok at least)
Can you also please try to hide the edit summaries of these edits if possible?
This and
this
Thanks and regards, talk 05:04, 26 September 2011 (UTC)]
- I'll extend the block if this behaviour continues after the block period is over.
- As for the edit summaries, those don't warrant hiding - I apologize for their content, but they don't meet the criteria of what I should remove. It's best just to ignore them for now. Cheers, m.o.p 05:13, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
- Okay, good to know, if I did nothing wrong, no permanent block will be enforced. The IP does not volunteer on WP as an admin and so the disproportionately out of line comments and threats of his should be ignored. --talk 05:19, 26 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Sounds good. We only hide extremely offensive revisions; milder ones stay in the edit history. Thanks again for bringing this to our attention! Cheers, m.o.p 05:31, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
Email
Jasper Deng (talk) 05:29, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
- Reading. talk) 06:00, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Bad Girls Club
- I've blocked Junebea for 2 days for disregarding warnings. m.o.p 20:30, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks for helping :) Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 21:06, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkback
- And again.Griswaldo (talk) 04:24, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
- And again ... but maybe the last. You can settle this question once and for all. See the talk page.Griswaldo (talk) 06:09, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'm sure I'm not alone in wanting to hear your replies to the last responses posed to you at that page. IMO, I don't know why you went down the road you did, but as far as I can tell you're blatantly misrepesenting facts about your own actions when people are brining concerns to you. You might think that since you closed the RfC the matter is settled, but it is not. You're actions have not made my life any more pleasant in the last few days vis-a-vis trying to deal with Anupam's disruption and I think you owe us all answers. So please revisit this thread and deal with the open questions. Thanks.Griswaldo (talk) 02:19, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
- I invite you to stop asking the same question again and again. This would be appreciated. Thanks, m.o.p 02:33, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Block question
- No, I just block obviously bad-faith accounts on sight. Advertising/spam accounts fall under that category. m.o.p 00:37, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Thanks
- Thank you. I've unlocked the article for whatever may come. If I'm needed again, feel free to let me know. Thanks for the kind words again, m.o.p 05:12, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
reminder
- We're still waiting to see if the user understands COI policy (per Ed's question). I'll prod the user and see if they'll answer. talk) 19:20, 30 September 2011 (UTC)]
Nextel logo deleted
- Mmm, good point. What's the link to the logo in question? m.o.p 01:33, 2 October 2011 (UTC)
Support of Sage City SymphonyYou deleted this page before I had a chance to go back in and add the stuff that you wanted to see, including the links within Wikipedia to important composers such as Lou Callabro (who started this orchestra and cites it in his Wikipedia page) and Susan Hurley whose work we premiered (SC is also mentioned in her Wikipedia entry). (Let alone links about the works we have performed.) And we have a web site at www.sagecitysymphony.org, have existed for over 35 yrs and are a significant cultural resource in the Bennington area such that we receive grants from local, statewide and national foundations.
I broke my wrist last weekend and am doing one-handed pecking so it'll take me a few days to get that loaded in. We are going out for a bit now, but I would appreciate your undeleting the page so that I don't have to re-invent the starting part when I go back in tomorrow to add links. Or delete it entirely so that I can start fresh - at this point either would work as long as I can start some serious work on it tomorrow. I am the webmaster by the way, so I do have access to content and more links.
Thank you, Celia Murray — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.228.127.119 (talk) 14:22, 1 October 2011 (UTC)
- It looks like fixed everything up. Best of luck, m.o.p 01:35, 2 October 2011 (UTC)]
Reply on Deterence's talk page
MA
After the beating you took you deserve a cold one--on me! Thanks for being fair and balanced – Lionel (talk) 03:55, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
- Hey, thanks! Glad to help out. :) m.o.p 03:56, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
Deletion of Mau5trap Recordings
--neocharles (talk) 07:33, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Existence does not equal notability - the subject has to be notable to get a Wikipedia page. m.o.p 12:05, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
Questoin re: AIV
- Addendum, actually, I read it very clearly in WP:VANDNOT: "Uploading or using material on Wikipedia in violation of Wikipedia's copyright policies is prohibited, but is not vandalism unless the user does so maliciously or fails to heed warnings." So if a person fails to heed warnings it is vandalism. My mistake here was that I only warned once. --Muhandes (talk) 12:29, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Eh, technically it is vandalism, but the user seems to be trying to improve the Wikipedia - that desire to help is misplaced in this case, as they seem to think that using copyrighted content is actually better. Weird. For most cases, yes, you should report copyvio to AIV - as long as they've been warned sufficiently. m.o.p 12:42, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- OK, he now did it again and the time stamp is after your last warning. Is it vandalism now? --Muhandes (talk) 12:32, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Yeah, if they're outright ignoring warnings. I've blocked for three days. m.o.p 12:40, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
Classmusic
- Oh, I know. But if somebody's lied to my face about using another account - and to other editors working on the article - I'm not about to let them go without a repercussion or two. I'd like Almost-instinct and Voceditnore to look over the article and fix up anything shifty. Also, I'd like Classmusic to respond to my warning, instead of blanking it and ignoring like they have to the above-named editors.
- So, in short, I know that COI doesn't bar editing, but it's enough of a concern that, given the user's recent behaviour, I'll stop them from doing anything until we've figured things out. This isn't too rouge-y, is it? I didn't hear that. Perhaps he is unaware of the sockpuppet investigation findings. Anyhow it seems that DeltaQuad has also blocked the Classmusic account. I left a note on his page about using the unblock template, but re-iterated that he needs to read the COI and Autobiography guidelines and stick to them scrupulously, if he gets unblocked. In the Opera and Classical Music WikiProjects, we get a lot of articles for performers, ensembles, etc. created by their agents and PR people, and often themselves. In my experience, the best I can hope for after one of these tussles is that they'll edit their article according to the guidelines in future. I have yet to find a single one who has ever contributed anything else to Wikipedia. Their only interest in the project is as a PR tool. Having said that, at least it results (after much red-pencilling from other editors) in one new article on a notable subject that we didn't have before and in a small way redresses the pop culture systemic bias here. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 13:40, 5 October 2011 (UTC)]
Danish election
- Never mind, it's been pulled by another admin. All the best, Jenks24 (talk) 11:03, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry about that! I was busy all day and didn't get your message until now. Thanks for letting me know, though! Cheers, m.o.p 19:51, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
3RRHey there! :)
Well WP:CRYSTAL has wined down, however, there's currently a
The Bad Girls Club (season 7). I have notified the two users [32], [33]. The evidence can be found here. They are having an edit-conflict on how the "Duration of cast" should be presented. Since there's no rules regarding anything like that, and it was made up about a year ago, I couldn't warned them to stop their e/c with anything except the 3RR rule. Maybe they need an admin to tell them to stop, so that's why I came to you :) Thanks, Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 01:17, 6 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Temporary page protection requested. Calabe1992 (talk) 01:29, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
Godzilla
- I feel that it doesn't. If you check our crystal ball policy, you'll notice that it says, "It is appropriate to report discussion and arguments about the prospects for success of future proposals and projects or whether some development will occur, if discussion is properly referenced." That policy is meant to stop unsourced conjecture and speculation by editors, so I think we're fine in this case. The Hobbit film project with all its troubles). Here, with Godzilla, the reports are extremely normal. The studio announces its plans for a film, and a director is attached for it (which is not a guarantee). That's what it boils down to, and it's not enough to be more than a news source. Erik (talk | contribs) 16:11, 17 February 2011 (UTC)
- I appreciate that you've explained your position to me (though I did read your points in the AFD thread) but I can't delve into stuff like this. If you're not happy with my close, you're fully welcome to ask another administrator or even open another AFD. m.o.p 16:15, 17 February 2011 (UTC)
- I won't do anything for now. I would just prefer to keep such articles a rarity. Following films for some time, a lot of people tend to create an article about a film the moment it is announced (or the moment something new happens, like a new director). I do like to report discussion (did so at Concrete Island) but it's more a matter of where for me, to ensure topics of enduring notability. I did want to ask, do you think a merge discussion in general would be more beneficial? I feel like an AFD like that foments a keep-or-delete mentality that overrides the in-between solution of reporting discussion under a broader article until we can be near certain a film will exist. Erik (talk | contribs) 16:21, 17 February 2011 (UTC)
- A merge discussion would be great; I could weigh in and such. Feel free to open one up if you'd like to. m.o.p 23:03, 17 February 2011 (UTC)
]
Please respond
userspace
Talkback 16:14, 19 February 2011 (UTC)
Protect my talk page
- Lately, this IP also misused the edit war template on my talk page.Jasper Deng (talk) 00:37, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
Block an IP
E-Mail
nice guyhiii master of puppets,
ok do u know the movie Twilght saga ?
rply me back i want 2 talk 2 u a lot because i like ur pesonalty.BY
talk) 11:58, 28 April 2011 (UTC)]
File source problem with File:MoPuppetarmy.pngThank you for uploading File:MoPuppetarmy.png. I noticed that the file's description page currently doesn't specify who created the content, so the copyright status is unclear. If you did not create this file yourself, you will need to specify the owner of the copyright. If you obtained it from a website, please add a link to the website from which it was taken, together with a brief restatement of that website's terms of use of its content. However, if the copyright holder is a party unaffiliated from the website's publisher, that copyright should also be acknowledged.
If you have uploaded other files, consider verifying that you have specified sources for those files as well. You can find a list of files you have created in your upload log. Unsourced and untagged images may be deleted one week after they have been tagged per Wikipedia's criteria for speedy deletion, F4. If the image is copyrighted and non-free, the image will be deleted 48 hours after 11:44, 11 May 2011 (UTC) per speedy deletion criterion F7. If the file is already gone, you can still make a request for undeletion and ask for a chance to fix the problem. You may wish to read the Wikipedia's image use policy. If you have any questions or are in need of assistance please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. Magog the Ogre (talk) 11:44, 11 May 2011 (UTC)
The Deputy
- Thanks for your reply. My concern was not that Jayjg indicated he would rewrite and did not do so, but that he had agreed to allow more of the disputed section in the article rather than a dismissive sentence or two, but when editors began to delete the entire section based on frivolous reasons, he supported it. It appears now that we have, or are in the process of reaching a resolution. The section is now in the article, reduced substantially to account of Jayjg's concers about undue weight. Mamalujo (talk) 18:40, 27 May 2011 (UTC)
Carla Rushing page deletion
Any further discussion of Sarah Palin will result in a warning, and then a temporary block. Thank you!Hmmm, that might be just a tad excessive. We don't want to suppress all discussion, because that's when the pressure has nowhere to go, and people will go and meatball:ExpandScope.
Since scope is already expanded to international media, forcing scope to expand further might be a bit of a Bad Idea (tm). I recommend Not Going There.
If we're really intent on keeping discussions off of WP, we can always create a wikinews article, and link to the "discuss this article" page.
However, at the moment, people seem to be keeping it down to a dull roar anyway.
--Kim Bruning (talk) 22:44, 6 June 2011 (UTC)
- I think you caught my side point, but I'd like to stress the part I'm trying to tell you to watch out for!
- Long term empirical experience shows that attempts to curtail discussion on wikipedia will not slow down the internet discussion elsewhere (or even on wikipedia). Instead, that's exactly what will feed it more and more steam. So Don't Do That.
- Experience shows that the following approaches work:
- Try to centralize all (spurious) discussion in one place
- keep it as focused on encyclopedic work as possible.
- Treat the new users like new users. They don't know our rules yet. Teach them!
- The foundation would like to see us be more welcoming towards new users. That's a good idea! Let's do that.
- --Kim Bruning (talk) 00:26, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
- And... it went to AN/I (see below) --Kim Bruning (talk) 01:33, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
Edit Notice on Paul RevereYou seem to be asserting some admin right to quench discussion on the talk page by blocking and/or warning with the editnotice that I don't think we have, by policy. IAR doesn't cover stomping on people, no matter how annoying a particular conversation is.
Kelly started a
WP:ANI discussion on this.
Followups probably best on ANI as I am sure others will want to comment. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 01:15, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
- On review - I'm going to blank the edit notice now. If an ANI consensus develops to support restoring it then I'll not object at all, but I think it's novel and enough of a stretch that the default should be "no" unless consensus develops otherwise. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 01:19, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
How does a user find a mentor?
Helen Lucy Burke
Talkback
I did what you asked but the IP reverted it again. PTJoshua (talk) 21:09, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
- You're removing everything I say. Please don't do this. It isn't helpful. --86.45.75.42 (talk) 21:19, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
- I'll talk to them. Sit tight for a second. m.o.p 21:10, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
RE: Deletion of 48gogreen page :ApalejaHello,
Thank you for quick response. I appreciate your reason. but if you do some research you'll find more then 4 or 5 substantial mentions in local or international media - in a newspaper, on a notable website, etc. - to put forward this article.
There is a link on official website of company. http://www.48gogreen.com/static/web
Looking forward for your response. thank you in advance to undelete article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Apaleja (talk • contribs) 08:03, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
Here are some articles from International Press (you can use Google translator-if you use chrome it'll provide option immediately):
http://www.regione.emilia-romagna.it/wcm/cinema/sezioni_primopiano/PrimoPiano/Gadoev.htm
http://domani.arcoiris.tv/girano-un-corto-in-48-ore-e-arrivano-dritti-a-cannes/
http://www.close-up.it/spip.php?article6724
http://www.flashvideo.it/news/9/2578/
http://www.radioemiliaromagna.it/cultura/cinema/videomaker_bolognesi_cannes_corto_ecologico.aspx
Also if YOU HAD READ careful our site you should have see the Press link (those are press links not blogs) with all these web press: http://www.48gogreen.com/static/web
Thank you — Preceding unsigned comment added by Apaleja (talk • contribs) 08:22, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
Final warning On Edit Warring of Efik language disputeIf My Reporting a false article is the reason you want to block me. Then Go ahead and BLOCK me.- I can be Block because I don't care to be part of a web/Encyclopedia of Lies! Although I have contributed anonymously to wikipedia since 2008, I only just signed on a few weeks ago to report an error that I thought was made. But you and your other BIASED administrators have refused to fix this error, instead you're all threatening to block me.
- : According to Wikipedia A false statement/article is removed immediatley it is realized. Yet as am reporting it you all are threatening me for causing disruption.
- You all are saying that I called I called Kwami Slow, Dumb etc. Yet Kwami used the words Ignorance first.
"As for Ukwa, your ignorance is not evidence of anything".
- What is the meaning of IGNORANCE? S/He also said;
"But we cannot have the same article under two names, nor an article on Ibibio-Efik that does not include Ibibio, nor an article on Efik that does not include Efik. A little common sense would be helpful."
- What is meaning of Common sense? Or because Kwami put it very nicely, and mine wasn't? Also I wasn't blanking the Efik page, since I just signed on it takes me a long while to write up an article. According to the statements above, Kwami said I could develop articles on Efik and Ibibio, that is what I was doing when you or your other BIASED administrators returned the articles back to the re-direct.
- : Since wikipedia says a false statement is fixed immediately it is reported, I explained out the mistakes, but Kwami kept insisting that me a native who speaks these languages was wrong and asked for sources. I provided the sources and Kwami Called A brilliant Historian who is a Million times more knowledgable than Kwami on the language;
"utterly ignorant AND not some random idiot who posted a web page".
- Yet you and your other Biased colleges are claiming that am the one attacking Kwami and causing a disruption.
- : Am done with Wikipedia, am going to be taking this issues to the Founder/head by email, once the Ibibio union are involved it might become a legal matter if Wikipedia still continues to portray this misleading information.
I will take this matter to the heads by Email first because they might not be aware of what you all supposed administrators are doing to their image. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ibibiogrl (talk • contribs) 21:41, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
Hi Mops,
Pls read my comments on the ANI page. I think Ibibiogrl means well, she just needs some guidance, and she's not willing to take it from me. — kwami (talk) 22:17, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
- Obviously we would like to have contributors from that part of the world, but Ibibiogrl's record here is so unpromising that I think we need good assurances that something will change in the future. (I would welcome any evidence that Ibibiogrl means well. It is hard to improve the encyclopedia when you have no interest in or respect for its policies. Read her statement above if you are uncertain about that). Mentorship has value only for someone who understands that something has gone wrong and would be willing to work with a mentor. EdJohnston (talk) 22:46, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
- I agree with Ed in this case - I have no grudge against Ibibiogrl, but the editor's attitude, despite multiple pleas for otherwise, remained combative and even insulting at points. If there's a serious expression of guilt and the editor decides they'd like to walk a different path, I'd be happy to help. However, as it is now, I believe the block should stand. m.o.p 22:52, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
- I agree that it would require some indication that she wants help. Just my 2¢ as the person she's most upset with. — kwami (talk) 23:05, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
- For the record, your input is highly appreciated, and very admirable; as the editor in conflict with her, I respect your neutrality and helpfulness. As for Ibibiogrl, we'll see where that goes. Cheers! m.o.p 00:59, 17 June 2011 (UTC)
Can you adopt me i want a new adopter.
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Mr. Pit (2nd nomination)
This isn't personalI belive the AFD on Campaign for "santorum" neologism was closed way to early and am contesting your close.
An editor has asked for a deletion review of Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2011 June 21. Because you closed the deletion discussion for this page, speedily deleted it, or otherwise were interested in the page, you might want to participate in the deletion review. KoshVorlon' Naluboutes Aeria Gloris 12:17, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
James Ball
Thank you for your concern. But I will not be blocked - _I am adding_ wikipedia to adblock. I also feel regret for having donated to the site before, but this will not happen again. Demonuminon (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 23:25, 23 June 2011 (UTC).
Thomas James BallWhy the hell did you delete his page?
Does his suffering mean nothing to you?
Heartless bitch. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.57.206.141 (talk • contribs)
Hey, Master of Puppets, OBVIOUSLY there is a public interested in keeping this article. Restore your deletion. Look at the massive flood of comments regarding your deletion here: http://www.<linkremoved>.com/2011/06/24/the-organized-silencing-of-a-man-publicly-burned-to-death/ and here http://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/i81rw/the_organized_silencing_of_a_man_publicly_burned/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Romerom (talk • contribs) 20:05, 24 June 2011 (UTC)
- Ball HIT A FOUR-YEAR-OLD CHILD, refused to pay child support, called for insurrection, demanded terrorism and violence as a solution, ultimately killed himself (leaving his children without a father) and damaged public property in the process. Even after all that, his incoherent message has mostly been ignored except by the less discriminating people claiming to speak for "men's rights" who haven't bothered to look into the details of his case. (If you really want to damage your cause, adopt a grown man who hits his own four-year-old child and flakes out on his child support as your poster boy.) --Orange Mike | Talk 20:26, 24 June 2011 (UTC) (proud father who has never hit his child in his lifetime)
Hey, "proud father who never hit his child in his lifetime", not everybody is against disciplining their children by spanking. He said his daughter was licking his hand, and he had told her repeatedly to stop. She didn't, and he smacked her. He didn't punch her, or send her to the hospital, or cause any serious injury. Just enough to have his wife baited into calling the police on him by child protective services. As for child support, he paid his child support until the point where he wasn't able to afford it due to an employment issue. Is that such a crazy thing to have happen? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.211.155.1 (talk) 04:28, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
- Again, while I do sympathize with the family and supporters, I am not taking sides, nor do I have any bias in this situation. I am not a feminist, nor am I a misogynist - I am fair and neutral towards all people, whether they be abusive fathers or abused fathers.
- This deletion was enforced solely in keeping with Wikipedia's long-established policies. Mr. Ball's death, while indeed tragic, was not reported throughout the reliable media enough to show his notability.
- I hope this makes sense to all those saddened by Mr. Ball's passing. Cheers, m.o.p 21:04, 24 June 2011 (UTC)
- I understand that you do not think that Mr. Ball's death is something that qualifies as an event and thus deleted said article. I disagree but I do see the merits of your argument. However, you claim to be unbiased in this debate and yet for someone who judges on the letter of the law you break the law and close debate 2.5 days before final judgment is to be rendered. If you have no corner then I ask why make this article a special case that it must be quelled , by your own admission, 2.5 days before any other articles found in similar circumstances are voted upon. I petition you to reinstate and allow the normal course of the discussion continue for the 2.5 days, allow the full opportunity for the pro side to make their case then recluse yourself from the final judgment. This is the only way to ensure transparency so that your claim of neutrality can be believed. CaffOMHW (talk) 03:28, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
- Ahead of things, let me tell you that I appreciate the civility.
- Wikipedia's policies aren't law - they're guidelines. As an administrator, it's my job to apply policy in a way that is completely devoid of bias and benefits the encyclopedia as a whole.
- On a side note, the deletion nomination was closed 1.5 days before the normal time. The page had a whole work week to be saved, rewritten or reworked; however, due to the lack of outside sourcing that carried reliability, there was nothing to keep that wasn't editorialized or unencyclopedic. I would also like to point out that almost every account that voiced their opinion in the 'keep' spectrum had either only edited that page or had edited very little aside from the page. Meanwhile, the deletion argument was put forward by experienced users.
- Though I understand that some people take offense to my early closure, I assure them that one extra day would not have yielded success, and that I took many factors into consideration before closing the discussion.
- Again, thank you for the civility, but I won't be overturning judgment or recreating a deletion discussion at this date. m.o.p 08:17, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
ITNthx for the 2 quick updates of my nom ;)
but also can you see the bolivia one. its got support and very nearly out of the news. we could tack it nearer the border.Lihaas (talk) 22:26, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
Ball closure.
Thank God you are an ambassador for WP, and against censorship, MoP. When Wikipedia fails, and it eventually will, it will largely be because most people don't like to be gamed and would rather not read well cultivated information that is maintained by dishonest brokers who hide behind rules that are never applied in an even-handed manner. The idea that a story is not relevant merely because it is not yet encyclopedic is ridiculous when one sees all the articles which linger on for months or years in the same state. The idea that a story is not relevant because the motivations/justifications of the user are suspect would be grounds for eliminating half the biographical articles in WP. It smacks of an agenda. The appearance of impropriety is as bad as actual impropriety.173.78.20.96 (talk) 04:51, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
- I appreciate the feedback.
- I do my best to maintain an equal, proportionate response in all dealings on Wikipedia; I don't defend things I like, or attack things I dislike, just for the reason of screwing with people. That strikes me as childish. Instead, the most I can do is try to help others understand Wikipedia policies, which are generally mind-bending and hard to grasp (for example, most people ask, "What's the reasoning a war hero isn't considered notable when Donkey Kong is?").
- Maybe one day the policies will change. I mean, most of these were written five, six year ago - the world's changing, and I expect they will with time. But, for now, the guidelines handle what comes in.
- Again, thanks for the input. I appreciate not being personally attacked - it makes it easier to reply. Cheers, m.o.p 05:08, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Natami (2nd nomination)
- The close was thoroughly thought-out, so there's not much ground for me to explore that I haven't already. If you're set on going to DRV, there's nothing I can say which will change your mind, and it's your right to ask for a review. However, current consensus sits at delete (unless the 'keep' side is hiding an ace-in-the-hole reliable source or something). Cheers, m.o.p 04:55, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- So, what about the reliable sources we already brought up in the AfD such as this interview in Amiga Future or this news article from nr2.ru? We've already established that Amiga Future isn't sponsored by a hardware company as one !voter there falsely claimed. On a related note, did you discount the !votes from individuals making misleading statements or those claiming there were "no independent reliable sources"? (I could tell you how that !voter happened to show up there, but he isn't going to like it.) I could also link to forum posts by another delete !voter who showed up there who was very much into a "delete at any cost" mode because he doesn't like "amiga clones". --Tothwolf (talk) 05:11, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- Those sources were there before the previous close, and I, like the previous administrator, do not think they're strong enough.
- I've already covered what kind of rationale was discounted and what wasn't.
- As for your last statement about other editors - I'm not quite sure what your point is, but I don't think it's relevant. As I said, I've discounted any rationale that does not apply policy.
- Cheers, m.o.p 05:33, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- Uh, no...nr2.ru was only brought up in the second AfD. Strong enough is also an argument to be made in a !vote, not a closing statement. --Tothwolf (talk) 05:56, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- My apologies, the Russian source was indeed added after the first AfD. Still too shaky for a stand-alone article, though. Cheers, m.o.p 13:42, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- To follow up on my earlier comment, while I don't really want to get into an "X did this because of Y" sort of thing with regards to this AfD, there were a number of delete !voters who showed up there for personal reasons/vendettas/bias and/or who made false statements about sources. Despite the template at the top of the AfD, the second AfD also didn't suffer from the forum canvassing that the first did. One of the delete !voters actually came by way of the forum and first AfD and was trolling because of his personal dislike of Amiga clones. --Tothwolf (talk) 15:33, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
If they have valid, policy-based rationale, their personal motivation doesn't matter, solely for the reason that an encyclopedia based on liking or disliking things would crumble instantly. I'm sure some of the deletion crew could just-as-easily blame keep voters for being enthusiasts and fans of Natami - but that's not important. As a result, making allegations of personal bias is unnecessary. The help is appreciated, but there's nothing I can do with the information. m.o.p 15:39, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- It matters when someone makes false statements and tries to hide what they are doing behind policy. As for keeps, quite a number appear to be from well established editors who don't appear to be all that interested in Amiga topics. As for myself, I wasn't even aware of NatAmi until the first AfD and didn't even !vote in the first AfD since I thought it was pretty obvious it was headed for a no-consensus close. --Tothwolf (talk) 15:58, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- Again, if their rationale is grounded in policy, their motivation does not matter, simply because it's impossible to discern someone's intent through text, and because the second someone accuses another of favoritism/malicious intent the entire argument turns into a bunch of people shouting, "You're lying." That's why there's nothing I can do with your information in this case. Cheers, m.o.p 16:02, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- Apologies to you, M.O.P., for addressing another editor on your talk page, but I just wanted to jump in this conversation. Tothwolf, with no prejudice against you at all I strongly suggest you take this in perspective. There have been two AFDs and an ANI report over this article. The way you treated me on my talk page threatening DRV because I was a new administrator was, as I feel it, borderline harassing. That you canvassed two other administrators to talk to me was also a below the belt move. In good faith, I relisted the debate and it has closed again as delete. I strongly suggest taking the advice at WP:DGAF into account here and let the issue go. I don't think there will be a problem recreating this article, even pulling the old content back from the deletion log, when the subject has better sources in a broader community. I hold no ill feeling toward you, this is purely honest advice.--v/r - TP 16:46, 27 June 2011 (UTC)]
- TParis, while you are correct in that this talk page is not the place for this, because you brought this up here and you seem to value honest feedback, I'll address this here.
In no way did I ever threaten you with DRV, let alone because you were a new administrator (discussion in question). I did however upon noticing that you had passed RFA only days earlier decide it best not to press you further in public and instead sent you this short email: "Sigh. I just noticed you just finished your RFA. The Natami AfD was a bad AfD to pick to close right out of the gate. It is likely to end up at DRV and given the magazine I mentioned, overturned. I really wish you would reconsider your close. You might have noticed I didn't even !vote in the AfD itself, however I did point out a number of things and took a couple of people to task for making false or misleading statements." That is the only email I sent you about the matter and not once did I ever threaten you with DRV. Please get your facts correct before making statements such as this because such mistakes can have a negative effect on others.
After you replied expressing your disagreement over the sources (and implied that I might be biased because I sometimes contribute to computing-related articles) I asked a number of other administrators (way more than two, actually) what they thought of the AfD's close because I wanted unbiased feedback to see if I was somehow totally off-track before I initiated a DRV. The feedback I got was fairly unanimous in that the close was problematic. Before I had a chance to draft a DRV however, you reverted your own close and relisted the AfD from scratch with a new listing. In no way did I ever "canvass" anyone to "talk to you" and if others did contact you directly, they did so at their own discretion and for their own reasons.
There indeed have been two AfDs, the first of which you closed (although one could also argue that the second was merely a relist of the first). The AN/I "discussion" you also mentioned wasn't really over this article or the first AfD, it was an attempt by someone to game AN/I when they were unable to bully me on their talk page. Please be more careful making these sort of blanket statements in the future because as I mentioned above such statements can cause problems for others. --Tothwolf (talk) 17:38, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- You're email was exactly like your reply here. You like to make threats without actually making them: "such statements can cause problems". There is very little way your email cannot be interpreted as anything other than a threat of DRV because I am a new administrator. This is all I'll say on M.O.P.'s talk page as I came here to offer honest advice and you don't seem interested in it. If you'd like to discuss further with me, you know where to find my talk page.--v/r - TP 17:51, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- TParis, in no way did I ever make an implied threat. While I may be a little blunt and abrasive at times (or maybe I'm just an assume good faith in that you simply misremembered the facts I outlined above when you made this statement here. It is easy to forget a few details here or there and not everyone maintains detailed notes for this sort of stuff (I do, for a number of reasons, although I didn't always).
As far as honest advice goes, this is a two-way street and I gave you my opinion as well. If you choose to ignore and discount it, so be it, but I'd suggest you be much more careful in the future and get your facts correct before you make the sort of statement you made above. Such statements can and do cause problems for other editors. Who knows, it may just be that you've not been around long enough yet to have witnessed people blocked or punished in some way because someone else didn't have their facts together. (If you do decide you want to continue this discussion, perhaps we should take this elsewhere.) --Tothwolf (talk) 18:14, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
]
Heaton Park Hebrew Congregation (2nd nomination)
Natami
Thought you might want to know
- (talk page stalker) That's just the same little ideological website which has been pushing for the "Martyrdom of St. Thomas Ball" attention since day one; no actual new coverage. --Orange Mike | Talk 14:34, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
- I guess I should also mention that the way I found it, was that someone tried submitting it to Fark.com last night. The admins did not greenlight it, so that particular submission/thread did not go to the main Fark page, appearing only to those with Totalfark accounts. The submission said something like "Wikipedia deletes burning man" (I'm not at a computer with TF access so I might not have that exactly right). It might, theoretically, based on the submission, be considered some sort of off-site canvassing (it was submitted with the asinine tag). For what its worth, the thread went uncommented, so I don't think that particular attempt garnered any support. I just wanted to drop a line in case that this was just the first drop of a large storm. If I see anything else, I'll drop a line here. Umbralcorax (talk) 15:58, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
Wiki ad
4chan raid
Thomas James Bell, new information
- (reliable sources. --Orange Mike | Talk 13:33, 30 June 2011 (UTC)]
Happy Birthday
![](//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3d/Nuvola_apps_cookie.svg/50px-Nuvola_apps_cookie.svg.png)
Just a happy Birthday message to you, Master of Puppets, from the Wikipedia Birthday Committee! Have a great day!
Monterey Bay (talk) 02:00, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
User:BillyMoses
Natami
AFD
- Your input is appreciated, though there's nothing I can do with it but take a note. If you'd like, you can weigh in at the next AfD(s), when/if they arise. Cheers, m.o.p 19:42, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
Dr Myko San – Health from Mushrooms
- I'd be happy to help! However, I'm currently away from a computer (typing this on my phone), so I'll have to check in on the 11th of July. Does that sound okay? m.o.p 15:40, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
- wp:NODEADLINE :-) LeadSongDog come howl! 15:48, 7 July 2011 (UTC)]
From a former Wikipedian
-71.234.90.0 (talk) 04:50, 8 July 2011 (UTC)
- Hey, thanks so much! I'm not sure who you are, but I really appreciate the sentiment. Hope all is well! m.o.p 20:49, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
Deletion review for Thomas James Ball
DRV comment
DRV
Could you please overturn the deletion of these files per File:Signature of Amitabh Bachchan.svg and File:Signature of Zakir Hussain.svg:
- File:Signature of Vishwanathan Anand.svg
- File:Signature of Vijay Mallya.svg
- File:Signature of Venkaiah Naidu.svg
- File:Signature of Sudeep Bandhopadhyay.svg
- File:Signature of Sonia Gandhi.svg
- File:Signature of Somnath Chatterjee.svg
- File:Signature of Ratan Tata.svg
- File:Signature of Kumar Mangalam Birla.svg
- File:Signature of Rajeev Shukla.svg
- File:Signature of Raj Babbar.svg
- File:Signature of Rahul Gandhi.svg
- File:Signature of Priyanka Vadra.svg
- File:Signature of P. T. Usha.svg
- File:Signature of Narendra Modi.svg
- File:Signature of Nandan Nilekani.svg
- File:Signature of Manish Tewari.svg
- File:Signature of Leander Paes.svg
- File:Signature of Lata Mangeshkar.svg
- File:Signature of Kumar Mangalam Birla.svg
- File:Signature of Karia Munda.svg
- File:Signature of Kapil Sibal.svg
- File:Signature of Kamal Nath.svg
- File:Signature of K. Kamraj.svg
- File:Signature of Jaya Bachchan.svg
- File:Signature of Gautam Gambhir.svg
- File:Signature of Brinda Karat.svg
- File:Signature of Bharatsinh Solanki.svg
- File:Signature of Bhairon Singh Shekhawat.svg
- File:Signature of B. K. Birla.svg
- File:Signature of Azim Premji.svg
- File:Signature of Arun Jaitely.svg
- File:Signature of Aishwarya Rai Bachchan.svg
- File:Signature of Abhishek Manu Singhvi.svg
- File:Signature of Abhishek Bachchan.svg
- File:Signature of Sting.svg
- File:Signature of Br. L. D. Lobo.svg
- File:Signature of VJ Rannvijay Singh Singha.svg
Diligent07Appears to be less than new. See User talk:Raoulduke25 where he states that this is a deliberate series of edits.
- Can you please help defend our collective effort of including the obscene middle-finger incident in the Cheney Mason article? It should be maintained in the article for public interest, etc. Please see the Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard#Cheney Mason discussion page and include your thoughts in favor of having the content remain in the interests of the public, etc
[8], [9] and even imputation that an editor has a connection with the person [10]. He has been on since April, and started off as being experienced on WP IMHO. Kindly keep an eye out please. Especially for any sign of a real "collective effort"? Such as [11]? Cheers. Collect (talk) 11:36, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
A cookie for you!
Keep up the good work defending the "Wiki" against genre warriors. Thanks for the help! talk) 17:31, 13 July 2011 (UTC)]
Hello. You have a new message at Lionelt's talk page.
Semi protection
OK, this thing with the militant atheism page is impossibleThese guys are incredible... I could dig up diffs to show you how they revert and wikilawyer even the SMALLEST attempt to move the article closer to NPOV. But that would take a long time for you to read. How about I show you this instead:
These guys are utterly without scruples. Who in their right mind would remove the NPOV dispute tag when heated arguments have been raging for weeks and NO moves whatsoever have been made to fix the article? Oh right, that would be someone in their right mind who is running a propaganda platform.
Anyway... I wanted to ask your advice on what to do. These guys are impossible to work with. Most of the other editors have given up and refuse to put this page on their watchlist. So what to do then? Request formal mediation? Articles for deletion? Something else?
Me and the other editors would like to see the page replaced with a disambiguation page... since literally ALL the content has already been covered (better) in Criticism of atheism, State atheism and New Atheism.
Obhave (talk) 13:21, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
- Hello User:Master of Puppets. I noticed this conversation and thought I might add that an NPOV policy. Obhave (talk) 13:11, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
- One more thing, m.o.p... my opponents are currently twisting your words to make it look as if you were scolding user:Mann_jess all along. Obhave (talk) 14:42, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
]
User:Jasper Deng page protection
- No worries! m.o.p 19:35, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
Is there a procedure for brutal uncollaborated editing with a destructive intent?I noticed that you recently had problems with proposed brutal editing by Peter S Strempel. Although he has been more sensible on your project in the end (possibly because of your administrator status?) he has not been so with regard to the astrology project pages to which he made a similar 'razor-promise'. Could you please see this Afd request which is one of three he made for major 'history of astrology' articles within the last hour, with a promise on another important page that any comment which is not refrences within 7 days will be removed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Babylonian_astrology
Is there anything that can be done about this officially to stop him wreaking havoc with content whilst he knows that the small group of editors providing content on these pages are already stretched to the limit trying to keep up with what needs to be done? I don't understand what drives some people to want to edit WP like this, but I think it is entriely the result of his ego-stress that when he proposed an edit for a passage, no one favoured it. Hope you can help or advise Zac Δ talk 01:15, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks! assume good faith; I believe that Peter is simply trying to help improve Wikipedia. While his methods may be lacking in some areas, he has displayed a pretty decent grasp on the policies he's trying to enforce.
- However, I agree that he shouldn't be making any changes if they're not discussed with the community first. Do you mind pulling up a few diffs of where he went against consensus? I'll approach him with your concern then. Thanks, m.o.p 03:57, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
- Actually there hasn't been any significant content dispute with Peter. He proposed a change to a section edit which wasn't a very good proposition and a few editors commented but without rancur, and I added a new section post immediately afterwards to point out the proiposed change would contradict with how the definition was given correctly at a later point in the article, outlining how I understood WP policy expected the main astrology article to pull its own content together, along with its summarised content from its daughter pages. Peter never responded to this but other editors started working in that direction immediately. Then, without further discussion or comment, Peter came back four days later to announce an intention to take his 'word razor' to all unreferenced assertions on the main astrology page, its sub-pages, and the portal page itself, to ensure his perceived disagreement was not circumvented in pages he viewed as content forks (I'm still not sure what he means by that). My response to that can be seen - a perfectly reasonable request for him to do what he felt was most productive, but consider that citation-tagging was the way to go. I also placed comments on his talk-page, which you can read if you are interested. That he erupted into a frenzy of AfD requests last night says something, I think, about his unwillingness to discuss and engage in other views. Most of his posts appear as new section declarations that don't appear to have considered the responses other editors give him.
- I've summarised this in the ANI request Dougweller started. The deletion requests were a step too far IMO, and I'm concerned that Peter would spring to such drastic measures in reaction to what he perceives to be me not allowing him to do what he wants to do. I'll be away for a few days so I'm tying up my WP activity now. That underlines my concern that he intends to take such drastic action with only one week's notice of intent. Thanks for looking into this. It would be good if something could be proposed to stop huge problems before they occur. 10:35, 22 July 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zachariel (talk • contribs
)
- One last request. I have just noticed that a related complaint, which is quite serious but has been sidetracked (deliberatly IMO) by Peter's suggestions that I have prevented him from doing what he wants, has been collapsed as "going nowehere" by an unsympathetic editor.
- "Its ben here several days and no admin has even sniffed at a block or ban - clearly you're not going to get admin action. So this should got to WP:DR or WP:RFCU if you want to take it further. I've boldly collapsed this, though I won't be surprised if someone uncollapses it"
- If you can find the time could you at least take a look at that related problem, and consider uncollapsing it, because the issues are serious and have gone beyond the point where Dispute resolution are appropriate. I will be away and have nothing more to add, but the problems identified still remain. Zac Δ talk 10:58, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
What to do?
- I've started a threat at ANI. Those AfDs are purely pointy and if no one objects I'll close them. talk) 06:11, 22 July 2011 (UTC)]
- Replied there. m.o.p 08:20, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
Talk Page on Militant Atheism - Introduction Section
- The update is appreciated, thanks very much. I've been dealing with life for the past two weeks, but I'll be back to close that discussion tonight or tomorrow. Thanks again, m.o.p 22:03, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
- Just bringing this up again, given the current state of this section. I believe the discussion will be archived automatically if not closed. I'm sorry if I sound pushy with you having a lot on your plate of late. If you would prefer, I could alert User:Fastily instead. Turnsalso (talk) 16:55, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
ITN
- I knew that tab I closed had unfinished business on it... thanks. 2008 University of Central Arkansas shootings is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.
The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2008 University of Central Arkansas shootings(2nd nomination) until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on good quality evidence, and our policies and guidelines.
Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article.
talk 14:00, 1 September 2011 (UTC)]
Hey
- Done! Both your userpage and the transcluded page are protected. Cheers, « ₣M₣ » 04:09, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Restored. m.o.p 05:21, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
]
User talk:Joshua the Independent
- My mistake - my block script auto-filled the edit summary. The block was issued due to the user's newfound will to disrupt Wikipedia intentionally. Their previous contributions are welcome, but this behaviour necessitates administrative action. m.o.p 21:52, 13 September 2011 (UTC)
Say hi to your imaginary girlfriend for me
- Well, I do love getting hate mail. Thanks for the laugh! Cheers, m.o.p 05:17, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
...further to the above lovely note, I weighed in on Calabe's talk page - there appears to be more confusion here than at first glance. bou·le·var·dier (talk) 05:19, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
Sorry to drop by again, but Silentsizzlingsausage (talk · contribs) would appear to be a duck. bou·le·var·dier (talk) 05:31, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
- No, it's not an issue! Thanks for the note, blocked. Cheers, WP:SPI. Thanks again, m.o.p 06:13, 14 September 2011 (UTC)]
I have to admit ...
- See the above section. The link is apparently a very subtle spam link that Calabe is removing, and socks are springing up to revert him. Swarm u / t 10:20, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
Moderation
- Alright, I'll make my way back. Thanks for letting me know! m.o.p 05:18, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
User:12.139.96.228
- To be honest, this case is perplexing. Half of this user's edits are constructive (mostly sourced), the other half aren't sourced - and the user won't reply to anybody. I'm also too busy to go through every edit and confirm whether or not it's good. I forgot about this for a while - I'll think about it tonight and figure something out for tomorrow. Thanks for reminding me! m.o.p 05:18, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
Whoops
- Whoops! Must not have been looking when I ran my block script. Thanks for letting me know, I've reblocked them for a far shorter (technically, an infinitely shorter) time. Cheers, m.o.p 22:58, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
Ashleyleggat404
- You're fully right in that the blanking policy covers indefinite blocks. I've removed the user's talk page rights as a result. Thanks again! m.o.p 00:28, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkback
Moderation
- If you look into this please consider whether Anupam's actions on the talk page and the entry itself are violations of WP:OWN. He's been driving off those he disagrees with by bludgening them to death with argument and heavily policing the entry claiming that there is a consensus written in stone despite many dissenting voices. Others have taken to simply calling him "the article's owner." I have had enough of this behavior personally and left him a message about it on his talk page. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:52, 20 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Dear User:Master of Puppets, the above user has misrepresented the occurrences at the article. I started another Introduction discussion at the article's talk page but User:Griswaldo has chosen to edit war over a second NPOV tag, despite the fact that one already exists in the article. He has done so despite the fact that the Introduction is being discussed in a peaceful manner at the talk page, in violation of your injunction: "We've only got consensus on this proposed versions (and loose consensus at that) - please do not attempt to subvert said consensus by making undiscussed changes." I have posted a message on his talk page about this behaviour. Nevertheless, I also do not wish to argue with the user personally and would prefer if you could go back to moderating the discussion between the two parties at the talk page. Thanks for taking the time to read this message. With regards, AnupamTalk 20:58, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- His "injunction?" Adding a neutrality tag to a specific sentence which an editor disputes the neutrality of is hardly "subverting the consensus by making undiscussed changes." Please stop wikilawyering to get your way. There is a growing consensus against your position regarding this article in general as well, despite your aggressive policing of the entry and the talk page. See ]
- I just thought that I would mention that User:Griswaldo, after seeing this message, just now decided to comment in the discussion rather than edit war against consensus further. Thanks for taking the time to read this message. With regards, AnupamTalk 21:51, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- "Edit war against consensus further?" My comment there has nothing to do with your message here. I've made three total edits to this entry ever. One was a copy edit in June, another was reverting an IP vandal, and the third was the revert of your Ownership edit. Please do not insinuate that I'm a edit warrior on this page. It is disingenuous.Griswaldo (talk) 22:08, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Thank you all for approaching me with your concerns.
- Obviously, I do not support Anupam - this is because I'm remaining a neutral third party, and, therefore, can't take sides. However, Griswaldo: please keep in mind that I did ask for all discussion to take place on the talk page. Why not just add your complaints to the talk page? It would have been much easier to discuss.
- I do agree that adding a NPOV tag, while slightly redundant, isn't horrible, but your intent seems to have been to stir discussion on that particular section, discussion that would be much more appropriate on the talk page.
- As for your and Snalwibma's concerns of Anupam trying to 'own' the article, I'm curious as to what you two mean; what 'delusions'?
- Also, Griswaldo, I don't think Anupam meant to insinuate you are an edit warrior (though this is just my take) - rather, they wanted to add the note that you've weighed in on discussion. m.o.p 22:10, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- your intent seems to have been to stir discussion on that particular section - No that's incorrect. I didn't add this tag, I simply reverted Anupam's attempt to own the page when he removed it. I agreed with JimWae's addition of the tag and found Anupam's removal to be unwarranted and a display of ownership.Griswaldo (talk) 22:16, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Note that, for all intents and purposes, reverting somebody is adding whatever is included in your edit, regardless of who put it there first. You revert a removal, you're agreeing with the edition you're reverting to - simple.
- And, if you agreed with JimWae, then we go back to what I was saying earlier - say so on the talk page. Two of you agree? Great! That's closer to consensus. But it means nothing if you express your support by reverting removals.
- Again, as I've asked multiple times, please stop saying that Anupam is owning anything without giving me evidence of it first. m.o.p 22:22, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Dear User:Master of Puppets, thank you for your reply to all of us. The reason User:Snalwibma stated that I was attempting to "own" the article was because I reverted an undiscussed removal from the article, which not only myself, but two other users objected to. In fact, two anonymous IP Addresses also reverted User:Snalwibma. I was open to compromise on the issue and stated that I would accept User:Turnsalso's compromise on the issue. I kindly request you to look at that discussion yourself and get an honest reading of it. Also, the only reason I removed the second NPOV tag was because there was already one present, which I did not remove. I only reverted the addition of a second NPOV tag once and even explained myself on the talk page. When I went to the talk page, I found rude accusations and an anti-collaborative spirit, despite the fact that I have been nothing but polite. I hope this helps. With regards, AnupamTalk 22:25, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry - I know I should not rise to the bait, but I have to object to the comment "The reason User:Snalwibma stated that I was attempting to 'own' the article was because I reverted an undiscussed removal ..." How dare Anupam presume to know what is in my mind! The reason I describe Anupam's attitude to the article as one of ownership is because that is how s/he behaves - "policing" every edit, pronouncing on whether s/he "accepts" or "rejects" it, peremptorily reverting anything s/he does not like, without discussion, presuming to know others' motives, and judging them as fit/unfit to contribute to the article. This has been going on for weeks, if not months. It is impossible to discuss the content of the article, let alone improve the text, because everything is filtered through the approval/disapproval of the article's self-appointed guardian, Anupam. tendentious or disruptive when they bring up certain issues, even when they are clearly in the majority. That is not collaborative. I stopped editing the article heavily because of those issues. I don't have any delusions that my opinion is worth more than anyone else's here, but I would think that the large number of established, experienced editors who are all saying there's a problem, would indicate something. — Jess· Δ♥ 19:45, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
Please reconsider your full protection of Militant atheist
- In case you didn't notice, I asked that people think twice about pointing fingers at each other. If you'd like to start a sockpuppetry investigation, let me know, and we can take that avenue - however, don't accuse other editors of ownership without substance. If you think Anupam is trying to own things, give me something. Diffs, edits, anything. I'll check it out for you, but right now, baseless accusations are not what I'm looking for.
- Also, notice that I protected the article with your edit being the last one. How is that validating the very person you've been reverting?
- The protection will stay until consensus is reached. m.o.p 22:19, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Because protection is what he wants quite clearly. He's stalling conversation and shouting down people on the talk page, where, if you have a look, you'll see he's clearly in the minority. Because of your "injunction" as he calls it, he also claims that no matter how many people agree with a certain change it is illegitimate. I'll be happy to gather some diffs, but my first message to you above was to please look into the situation carefully before acting on it. Did you do that and come to the conclusion that I'm wrong or did you not head that request? Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:29, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Yes, I did heed your request. I don't see any ownership behaviour from Anupam, though, being involved in multiple disputes, I didn't have the time to read every last word on the page, so you're free to provide evidence. However, from what I can see, Anupam's last proposal was supported by the majority - not to count (and I don't mean to imply that I decide where consensus lies by looking at pure numbers), but from looking at pure supports versus opposes, eight people (nine including Anupam) support while four oppose. How does that make Anupam's views a minority? m.o.p 22:37, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- It depends on what view you are talking about. The current RFC on the introduction is something that most people don't even want to engage because most people think this very entry should be split up and integrated into other entries. I reluctantly engaged the RfC just now myself. The last time the more serious question about the entry was asked, several of the new commentators were not around, and there was "no consensus" found because the opposing side was chalk full of SPAs and editors with a view that is outright hostile to atheism (which is a legitimate view to hold, but it is a minority view). Let me find you some diffs.Griswaldo (talk) 22:43, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- User:Griswaldo, that is exactly the issue: you do not want to collaborate with other users on the talk page, which is why you were reluctant to participate in the current RfC. Moreover, there were several SPA's on the side of the opposition as well, including WP:NPOV. In addition, the split was again recently discussed and the specific case to do so was refuted by several editors. As such, there was no consensus for it. I hope this helps. With regards, AnupamTalk 22:52, 20 September 2011 (UTC)]
- No. You are trying to write an article that violates WP:SYNTH because it conflates New Atheism with oppressive communist regimes and their histories of violence. That's hardly NPOV. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:59, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
Hi m.o.p., as someone who occasionally looks at that page (and then washes my hands), I just want to compliment you as having done the right thing in full protecting. By way of unsolicited advice to the involved editors, the best thing they could do is to allow The Wrong Version to sit there a good long time, and devote their energy to other things. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:54, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
]
Yes, please reconsider your full protection of
WP:RS—deserve protection against misinformed reverts. Thanks Geremia (talk) 16:12, 22 September 2011 (UTC)]
Diffs of
- I'm not really sure where the ownership is here; nowhere in our policies is it stated that a user can't promote their RFC on the subject talk page. If it's ongoing and they'd like to move it to the forefront, what's wrong with that? More so, some of your summaries seem inaccurate - in that last diff, you state that Anupam is removing images, yet I only see Anupam adding an image (the peace dove that's at the top of the page). Also, you use repeating examples. m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Well clearly the last diff was wrong. Thanks for the vote of confidence. There are no repeat examples nor inaccurate summaries, just a mistaken copy paste of the second to last diff to the last position as well. I have fixed it. Cheers.
- Using "consensus claims from one RfC to reject changes made to article content
- Same as above. Using the "consensus" bludgeon to get his way. Please note that clearly we ought to edit by consensus, but this consensus is highly disputed, and IMO not there in the first place. The real problem is the way in which Anupam decides to use it like a trump card to remove changes he doesn't like. Ask yourself if all changes post "consensus" have been removed or just the ones Anupam decided he wanted removed.
Master of Puppets do you need more diffs or is this enough?Griswaldo (talk) 23:31, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Well I need more diffs because your "evidence" so far looks like a desperate attempt to incriminate an editor who has been very successful in persuading his colleagues to adopt his proposals. Anupam has presented his proposals, argued the merits and persuaded many editors. Anything you want to tell us about why you're having difficulty doing likewise? – Lionel (talk) 06:02, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- I don't see this is as conclusive evidence, either. And, it should be said - if people are editing against established consensus, then people are free to re-evaluate consensus, but edit-warring against it doesn't make much sense. m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- If not ownership then what is this - [28], [29], [30]? He removes two RfCs started by another editor, and revolving around the question that many of us actually find to be the fundamental question to answer regarding the entry. Then he edit wars to keep these RfCs off the page, claiming again to have some sort of authority stemming from your prior actions. If you aren't willing to do something here I'm going to another administrator and I'm going to ask for your initial "consensus," your strong arm administrating, and your lack of action here to be reviewed as well. Thanks.Griswaldo (talk) 17:08, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Anupam has already apologized for reverting those RfC additions, and we've moved past it. He also didn't claim to have administrative authority, but was waiting for my approval. We've cleared this up, it's not an issue. So no, I'm not going to take any action (as I've said here and on ANI). Now, if you'd like to threaten me and tell me that, since I'm not cooperating with your wills, you'll go to another administrator, that's fine - as I've said, you can seek outside opinions - but remember to keep a cool head, because borderline threats are not appreciated. m.o.p 21:49, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- It was not a threat, "borderline" or otherwise. You are conveniently ignoring a growing number of voices who are all saying the same thing - there is an ownership problem here. The deletion issue has not been "cleared up" as far as I'm concerned. Whenever it is mentioned Anupam insists that he did not "unilaterally" delete the RfCs from the page, which is a blatant distortion, since that is exactly what he did. He continues to act as a policeman at the page, and yes he does continue to cite your authority. Did you bother to read the many diffs I posted above in the second two sections? I will quote three random examples from those I provided for you if you want.
- When he first deleted the two RfCs he wrote: "rv - see discussion with reviewing administrator; approval needed to start another RfC while one is already occurring."
- When he deleted a fact tag that JimWae put into the lede: "rv excessive tagging per talk; tag is already extant in header; do not subvert previous consensus but gain consensus for potential additions per administrative notice"
- When he rejected another recent change to the entry: "accepted edits by User:Jkhwiki; rv removal of longstanding referenced content - see discussion on talk page and gain consensus for action per administrative injunction"
- In talk page comments and in edit summaries he consistently does the same thing. He refers to your authority, either directly or indirectly through your "notice" or your "injunction" as he likes to call it. I never said the claimed to have administrative authority, I said that he's using your authority, by way of your comments, such as the closure of the AfD to bully people. Do you deny that he citing your comments, because if you do then I must have fabricated those quotes. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:32, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
If you say "If you don't do A, then I'm going to go and do B", that's a threat. Anyway, that's not the issue - we've already covered all the issues with the RfC reverting, and Anupam won't do it again. Why keep raising hell over it?
We've already covered everything you bring up. And no, I'm not denying anything. I'm just saying this, and it's very simple: I don't think there has been any blatant ownership here. That's my judgment. If you disagree, again, feel free to raise this with another administrator or on ANI. m.o.p 23:12, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Regarding the new RFC, I still think there has not passed yet too much time since the last discussion about splitting the article. As far as I knew, repeating these sorts of debates (like splitting, deleting, renaming) before a larger amount of time has passed (like 6 months) is usually discouraged. And as others have also argued earlier, even if having multiple RFCs is possible, it's not very useful, and the new RFC seems to discourage further discussion about improving the lead introduction. So preventing multiple RFCs (and also a RFC about an issue debated not too long ago) does not look to me like evidence of bad faith intentions. Cody7777777 (talk) 21:37, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Cody, would you mind linking me to the previous RfC on splitting? m.o.p 21:49, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- The previous attempt to split the article can be found here. Cody7777777 (talk) 21:55, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Response
Yes, it does. Thanks, m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Dear User:Master of Puppets, I just noticed that User:Binksternet started another RfC while a current one is occurring. Is this appropriate? I reverted the addition motioning for one until your response is confirmed. If it is acceptable, then I apologize and will revert my edit. I look forward to your response. With regards, AnupamTalk 15:14, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'll form my reply on ANI. m.o.p 17:12, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- When you do please take into account my comment just above, regarding Anupam's edit warring to remove talk page comments (namely these RfCs) posted by others on the talk page. If you still don't think this is WP:OWN then clearly other administrators are needed here.Griswaldo (talk) 17:15, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Dear User:Griswaldo, how is going to a neutral mediator to address the issue owning the article? I acknowledge that the article is in dispute and as a result, I am asking an administrator for advice in this matter, NOT handling things on my own, as you have done by edit warring. Your WP:OWN allegations have not only been dismissed by this administrator, but by several other users, including, User:Lionelt, User:Cody7777777 and User:NYyankees51. Thanks, AnupamTalk 17:27, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- In reply to Griswaldo: reverting the RfCs was a mistake, but we've cleared that up now. As Anupam has stated at ANI, the intent was not to discourage discussion. If you think my judgment is compromised, you're welcome to seek another administrator's input. m.o.p 21:04, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- And as further evidence of WP:OWN, see this. Anupam adds a comment to everything that anyone else says, as if he/she is the owner of the article and everyone else is a subordinate contributor. This particular instance is pretty benign (although it clutters up the talk page with an unnecessary comment that merely says "I agree"), but I do think that Anupam at least needs to learn how to avoid giving the appearance of thinking he/she owns the article, and to desist from chipping in and saying the same thing over and over again, which almost makes meaningful discussion impossible! SNALWIBMA ( talk - contribs ) 17:31, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- While the input is appreciated, as I've said before, making allegations of ownership without hard evidence isn't going to get us anywhere. Anupam is not stopping others from discussing changes or forming consensus, and that's all that matters - refactoring the talk page or commenting on an issue is not against policy, and I'm not going to tell someone to stop editing because it "looks" like they're doing something wrong. As said above, you're welcome to request another administrator's insight if you wish. m.o.p 21:04, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
COIHi
you've helped me out before, with a conflict of interest problem, so having much more experience than me on wikipedia, I thought I would be bold enough to ask again for help.
Similar problem to last, User_talk:Hobbycraft is editing the HOBBYCRAFT article and making changes that aren't citably right. I think the user name suggest and history suggests a conflict of interest case.
Can you please, speak to them addressing this issue.
Thank you very much for your help.
Markcoulter50 (talk) 22:27, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
- I've blocked that user for username violations. Thanks a lot for letting me know! Keep up the great work, m.o.p 23:00, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkbackcausa sui (talk) 18:47, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Hello. You have a new message at causa sui's talk page. causa sui (talk) 20:54, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Problematic editing on militant atheism
- I hope it's not considered defamatory to repeat the final line: "I merely present the diffs above, and let others draw their own conclusions. Is this a duck? Does it quack? You decide.". Unfortunately, the concerned community no longer has that opportunity. What did you decide on their behalf? Does this duck quack, or not? bobrayner (talk) 15:42, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- It's not your wording, it's the very idea of it. Going to what's allegorically a public place and shouting, "Hey, everybody, this man is a criminal!" is one step below blatantly forming a lynch mob. As I've said, I have no problem with your wording or evidence, just your location of choice. Wikipedia is not, unfortunately, a democracy - letting others draw their conclusions and voice their opinions is not how a sockpuppet investigation works.
- So yes, please don't go restoring any of that section. We're not discussing editors, we're discussing the content they produce. Anything else has a sub-board to deal with it (like WP:SPI).
- Hopefully that clears things up! I'll be happy to answer any more questions should you have them. Cheers, m.o.p 15:48, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Hello User:Bobrayner, I noticed the section you created on the militant atheism talk page. If you do feel the way you do about User:Turnsalso and the anonymous IP Addresses, you can take this up with WP:SPI. Thanks, AnupamTalk 15:52, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
Are you kidding my MoP? Above your write: Going to what's allegorically a public place and shouting, "Hey, everybody, this man is a criminal!" is one step below blatantly forming a lynch mob. AND We're not discussing editors, we're discussing the content they produce. Yet you call this edit by Lionelt "good faith," at WQA? MoP, I would not ask you to agree with me or to like me, but can I please ask you not to insult me with these double standards.Griswaldo (talk) 16:18, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
]
- Griswaldo, I mean no offense when I say this, but I'd appreciate it if you stayed out of discussions which didn't involve you. Also, please don't put words in my mouth. Thanks, m.o.p 16:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I have not put words in your mouth. You said that you would assume good faith about Lionel. If you "assume good faith" it means you assume his edits were in "good faith." If you did not intend that meaning I suggest you reconsider what you wrote. Also, if you want me to "stay out of discussion which don't involve me" then I suggest your first order of business should be to do the same thing yourself. You decided to post at WQA, when there was no mention of you or anything you've done in that thread. Once again, I expect people not to practice double standards. So as long as you cannot show me that you will treat me as you ask to be treated yourself, I will not oblige you. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:21, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Please stop bickering. I'm not quite sure what you're trying to accomplish here. I've already explained what I meant when I said assuming good faith, but I'll explain again: I assumed that Lionelt was not hounding or deliberately haranguing you. I did not say, at any point, that his edit content was good faith, and I've told him not to edit like that again. So please stop accusing me of saying things I haven't said.
- Also, I posted in WQA because, as a mediator in this case and as an administrator, it's my duty to weigh in on administrative noticeboards, especially when the case is an ongoing discussion I've been participating in for three months. It is not your duty to weigh in on discussions on my talk page that don't concern you. I hope the distinction is clear here. m.o.p 20:33, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I think you are confused about something. Content is never good faith. "Editing in good faith" and "good faith edits" refers to the intent of the editor always. It has nothing to do with content. My assumption that you also felt the edits were appropriate comes from the fact that you did not say they weren't appropriate and clearly feel that his intentions were good. If you'd like to set the record straight on that issue you still can. I've asked you twice now to discuss the actual edits that are the focal point of the thread. Also, I moved the thread to ANI, per the suggestion of the editor who marked it "resolved."Griswaldo (talk) 20:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- See Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#User:Lionelt_--_following_my_past_edits_to_drum_up_support_against_me. FYI, I copy pasted the entire discussion because both you and Collect were critical of my initial post and I thought it was the right thing to do to preserve that criticism in the record of the conversation. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:43, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- In reply to your first paragraph: I'm going to give up now, as it seems you're misunderstanding most of what I type, but you're the one who stated that the content was not good faith (as you said, not appropriate), and I agreed - I referred to his intent in replying to you, and said that I assumed good faith in his motives, not his replies. I can't really say that in a clearer way, so my apologies if it's hard to understand. Also, as I've already said, I've left a message for Lionelt about his edits, so clearly I do not feel they're appropriate. m.o.p 20:57, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I, too, find these double standards vexing.
- Which diff is defamatory?
- I had hitherto thought that people on the article talkpage might like to be aware of potential problems with votestacking on the article talkpage (and 3rr evasion, of course). Would it be permitted to add a link to that list of diffs when it's in a different place, or would you consider that defamatory too? bobrayner (talk) 16:23, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- As I said, the information is not defamatory, but the way it's presented is - we have specific processes available to pursue should one feel there are sockpuppets about. However, calling someone out with the intent of informing the community is overstepping your authority and damaging to the accused's character. Also, there's no way a community discussion about whether or not one editor is a sockpuppet can end in anything other than a sockpuppet investigation anyway.
- So, in closing, please don't bring issues like this to the talk page. If you're concerned about votestacking, take it to the appropriate venue - if your concerns are validated, we'll take measures against said puppets. Cheers, m.o.p 16:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I am very disappointed that it's no longer permissible to raise problems with article-editing on the article talkpage. Previous concerns about sockpuppetry were simply ignored; the difference this time is that it's backed by lots of diffs.
- I'm fairly confident that the people concerned have sufficient technical nous to make checkuser draw a blank. And, let's be entirely honest, within minutes of me creating an SPI, an admin of the right persuasion will be getting an email suggesting that an SPI needs their attention. And SPI does not see offsite coordination by a facebook group &c. Finally, any null result at SPI will be used at the article in much the same way as previous administrative decisions have been. So, I do not believe that an SPI will improve either the article, or the encyclopædia as a whole. bobrayner (talk) 17:08, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- If you don't think the pre-existing methods set in place for situations like this are sufficient, you can always raise that concern at the village pump or suggest a policy revision - however, SPI is the venue for these requests, and the only venue. The talk page can not substitute. m.o.p 17:10, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
76.228.226.122Thank you for blocking the anonymous user, who is being counterproductive and rude. (although I think the block should have been one week, but I guess ok at least)
Can you also please try to hide the edit summaries of these edits if possible?
This and
this
Thanks and regards, talk 05:04, 26 September 2011 (UTC)]
- I'll extend the block if this behaviour continues after the block period is over.
- As for the edit summaries, those don't warrant hiding - I apologize for their content, but they don't meet the criteria of what I should remove. It's best just to ignore them for now. Cheers, m.o.p 05:13, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
- Okay, good to know, if I did nothing wrong, no permanent block will be enforced. The IP does not volunteer on WP as an admin and so the disproportionately out of line comments and threats of his should be ignored. --talk 05:19, 26 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Sounds good. We only hide extremely offensive revisions; milder ones stay in the edit history. Thanks again for bringing this to our attention! Cheers, m.o.p 05:31, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
Email
Jasper Deng (talk) 05:29, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
- Reading. talk) 06:00, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Bad Girls Club
- I've blocked Junebea for 2 days for disregarding warnings. m.o.p 20:30, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks for helping :) Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 21:06, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkback
- And again.Griswaldo (talk) 04:24, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
- And again ... but maybe the last. You can settle this question once and for all. See the talk page.Griswaldo (talk) 06:09, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'm sure I'm not alone in wanting to hear your replies to the last responses posed to you at that page. IMO, I don't know why you went down the road you did, but as far as I can tell you're blatantly misrepesenting facts about your own actions when people are brining concerns to you. You might think that since you closed the RfC the matter is settled, but it is not. You're actions have not made my life any more pleasant in the last few days vis-a-vis trying to deal with Anupam's disruption and I think you owe us all answers. So please revisit this thread and deal with the open questions. Thanks.Griswaldo (talk) 02:19, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
- I invite you to stop asking the same question again and again. This would be appreciated. Thanks, m.o.p 02:33, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Block question
- No, I just block obviously bad-faith accounts on sight. Advertising/spam accounts fall under that category. m.o.p 00:37, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Thanks
- Thank you. I've unlocked the article for whatever may come. If I'm needed again, feel free to let me know. Thanks for the kind words again, m.o.p 05:12, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
reminder
- We're still waiting to see if the user understands COI policy (per Ed's question). I'll prod the user and see if they'll answer. talk) 19:20, 30 September 2011 (UTC)]
Nextel logo deleted
- Mmm, good point. What's the link to the logo in question? m.o.p 01:33, 2 October 2011 (UTC)
Support of Sage City SymphonyYou deleted this page before I had a chance to go back in and add the stuff that you wanted to see, including the links within Wikipedia to important composers such as Lou Callabro (who started this orchestra and cites it in his Wikipedia page) and Susan Hurley whose work we premiered (SC is also mentioned in her Wikipedia entry). (Let alone links about the works we have performed.) And we have a web site at www.sagecitysymphony.org, have existed for over 35 yrs and are a significant cultural resource in the Bennington area such that we receive grants from local, statewide and national foundations.
I broke my wrist last weekend and am doing one-handed pecking so it'll take me a few days to get that loaded in. We are going out for a bit now, but I would appreciate your undeleting the page so that I don't have to re-invent the starting part when I go back in tomorrow to add links. Or delete it entirely so that I can start fresh - at this point either would work as long as I can start some serious work on it tomorrow. I am the webmaster by the way, so I do have access to content and more links.
Thank you, Celia Murray — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.228.127.119 (talk) 14:22, 1 October 2011 (UTC)
- It looks like fixed everything up. Best of luck, m.o.p 01:35, 2 October 2011 (UTC)]
Reply on Deterence's talk page
MA
After the beating you took you deserve a cold one--on me! Thanks for being fair and balanced – Lionel (talk) 03:55, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
- Hey, thanks! Glad to help out. :) m.o.p 03:56, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
Deletion of Mau5trap Recordings
--neocharles (talk) 07:33, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Existence does not equal notability - the subject has to be notable to get a Wikipedia page. m.o.p 12:05, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
Questoin re: AIV
- Addendum, actually, I read it very clearly in WP:VANDNOT: "Uploading or using material on Wikipedia in violation of Wikipedia's copyright policies is prohibited, but is not vandalism unless the user does so maliciously or fails to heed warnings." So if a person fails to heed warnings it is vandalism. My mistake here was that I only warned once. --Muhandes (talk) 12:29, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Eh, technically it is vandalism, but the user seems to be trying to improve the Wikipedia - that desire to help is misplaced in this case, as they seem to think that using copyrighted content is actually better. Weird. For most cases, yes, you should report copyvio to AIV - as long as they've been warned sufficiently. m.o.p 12:42, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- OK, he now did it again and the time stamp is after your last warning. Is it vandalism now? --Muhandes (talk) 12:32, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Yeah, if they're outright ignoring warnings. I've blocked for three days. m.o.p 12:40, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
Classmusic
- Oh, I know. But if somebody's lied to my face about using another account - and to other editors working on the article - I'm not about to let them go without a repercussion or two. I'd like Almost-instinct and Voceditnore to look over the article and fix up anything shifty. Also, I'd like Classmusic to respond to my warning, instead of blanking it and ignoring like they have to the above-named editors.
- So, in short, I know that COI doesn't bar editing, but it's enough of a concern that, given the user's recent behaviour, I'll stop them from doing anything until we've figured things out. This isn't too rouge-y, is it? I didn't hear that. Perhaps he is unaware of the sockpuppet investigation findings. Anyhow it seems that DeltaQuad has also blocked the Classmusic account. I left a note on his page about using the unblock template, but re-iterated that he needs to read the COI and Autobiography guidelines and stick to them scrupulously, if he gets unblocked. In the Opera and Classical Music WikiProjects, we get a lot of articles for performers, ensembles, etc. created by their agents and PR people, and often themselves. In my experience, the best I can hope for after one of these tussles is that they'll edit their article according to the guidelines in future. I have yet to find a single one who has ever contributed anything else to Wikipedia. Their only interest in the project is as a PR tool. Having said that, at least it results (after much red-pencilling from other editors) in one new article on a notable subject that we didn't have before and in a small way redresses the pop culture systemic bias here. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 13:40, 5 October 2011 (UTC)]
Danish election
- Never mind, it's been pulled by another admin. All the best, Jenks24 (talk) 11:03, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry about that! I was busy all day and didn't get your message until now. Thanks for letting me know, though! Cheers, m.o.p 19:51, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
3RRHey there! :)
Well WP:CRYSTAL has wined down, however, there's currently a
The Bad Girls Club (season 7). I have notified the two users [32], [33]. The evidence can be found here. They are having an edit-conflict on how the "Duration of cast" should be presented. Since there's no rules regarding anything like that, and it was made up about a year ago, I couldn't warned them to stop their e/c with anything except the 3RR rule. Maybe they need an admin to tell them to stop, so that's why I came to you :) Thanks, Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 01:17, 6 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Temporary page protection requested. Calabe1992 (talk) 01:29, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
- I appreciate that you've explained your position to me (though I did read your points in the AFD thread) but I can't delve into stuff like this. If you're not happy with my close, you're fully welcome to ask another administrator or even open another AFD. m.o.p 16:15, 17 February 2011 (UTC)
- I won't do anything for now. I would just prefer to keep such articles a rarity. Following films for some time, a lot of people tend to create an article about a film the moment it is announced (or the moment something new happens, like a new director). I do like to report discussion (did so at Concrete Island) but it's more a matter of where for me, to ensure topics of enduring notability. I did want to ask, do you think a merge discussion in general would be more beneficial? I feel like an AFD like that foments a keep-or-delete mentality that overrides the in-between solution of reporting discussion under a broader article until we can be near certain a film will exist. Erik (talk | contribs) 16:21, 17 February 2011 (UTC)
- A merge discussion would be great; I could weigh in and such. Feel free to open one up if you'd like to. m.o.p 23:03, 17 February 2011 (UTC)
Please respond
userspace
Talkback 16:14, 19 February 2011 (UTC)
Protect my talk page
- Lately, this IP also misused the edit war template on my talk page.Jasper Deng (talk) 00:37, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
Block an IP
E-Mail
nice guyhiii master of puppets,
ok do u know the movie Twilght saga ?
rply me back i want 2 talk 2 u a lot because i like ur pesonalty.BY
talk) 11:58, 28 April 2011 (UTC)]
File source problem with File:MoPuppetarmy.pngThank you for uploading File:MoPuppetarmy.png. I noticed that the file's description page currently doesn't specify who created the content, so the copyright status is unclear. If you did not create this file yourself, you will need to specify the owner of the copyright. If you obtained it from a website, please add a link to the website from which it was taken, together with a brief restatement of that website's terms of use of its content. However, if the copyright holder is a party unaffiliated from the website's publisher, that copyright should also be acknowledged.
If you have uploaded other files, consider verifying that you have specified sources for those files as well. You can find a list of files you have created in your upload log. Unsourced and untagged images may be deleted one week after they have been tagged per Wikipedia's criteria for speedy deletion, F4. If the image is copyrighted and non-free, the image will be deleted 48 hours after 11:44, 11 May 2011 (UTC) per speedy deletion criterion F7. If the file is already gone, you can still make a request for undeletion and ask for a chance to fix the problem. You may wish to read the Wikipedia's image use policy. If you have any questions or are in need of assistance please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. Magog the Ogre (talk) 11:44, 11 May 2011 (UTC)
The Deputy
- Thanks for your reply. My concern was not that Jayjg indicated he would rewrite and did not do so, but that he had agreed to allow more of the disputed section in the article rather than a dismissive sentence or two, but when editors began to delete the entire section based on frivolous reasons, he supported it. It appears now that we have, or are in the process of reaching a resolution. The section is now in the article, reduced substantially to account of Jayjg's concers about undue weight. Mamalujo (talk) 18:40, 27 May 2011 (UTC)
Carla Rushing page deletion
Any further discussion of Sarah Palin will result in a warning, and then a temporary block. Thank you!Hmmm, that might be just a tad excessive. We don't want to suppress all discussion, because that's when the pressure has nowhere to go, and people will go and meatball:ExpandScope.
Since scope is already expanded to international media, forcing scope to expand further might be a bit of a Bad Idea (tm). I recommend Not Going There.
If we're really intent on keeping discussions off of WP, we can always create a wikinews article, and link to the "discuss this article" page.
However, at the moment, people seem to be keeping it down to a dull roar anyway.
--Kim Bruning (talk) 22:44, 6 June 2011 (UTC)
- I think you caught my side point, but I'd like to stress the part I'm trying to tell you to watch out for!
- Long term empirical experience shows that attempts to curtail discussion on wikipedia will not slow down the internet discussion elsewhere (or even on wikipedia). Instead, that's exactly what will feed it more and more steam. So Don't Do That.
- Experience shows that the following approaches work:
- Try to centralize all (spurious) discussion in one place
- keep it as focused on encyclopedic work as possible.
- Treat the new users like new users. They don't know our rules yet. Teach them!
- The foundation would like to see us be more welcoming towards new users. That's a good idea! Let's do that.
- --Kim Bruning (talk) 00:26, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
- And... it went to AN/I (see below) --Kim Bruning (talk) 01:33, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
Edit Notice on Paul RevereYou seem to be asserting some admin right to quench discussion on the talk page by blocking and/or warning with the editnotice that I don't think we have, by policy. IAR doesn't cover stomping on people, no matter how annoying a particular conversation is.
Kelly started a
WP:ANI discussion on this.
Followups probably best on ANI as I am sure others will want to comment. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 01:15, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
- On review - I'm going to blank the edit notice now. If an ANI consensus develops to support restoring it then I'll not object at all, but I think it's novel and enough of a stretch that the default should be "no" unless consensus develops otherwise. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 01:19, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
How does a user find a mentor?
Helen Lucy Burke
Talkback
I did what you asked but the IP reverted it again. PTJoshua (talk) 21:09, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
- You're removing everything I say. Please don't do this. It isn't helpful. --86.45.75.42 (talk) 21:19, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
- I'll talk to them. Sit tight for a second. m.o.p 21:10, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
RE: Deletion of 48gogreen page :ApalejaHello,
Thank you for quick response. I appreciate your reason. but if you do some research you'll find more then 4 or 5 substantial mentions in local or international media - in a newspaper, on a notable website, etc. - to put forward this article.
There is a link on official website of company. http://www.48gogreen.com/static/web
Looking forward for your response. thank you in advance to undelete article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Apaleja (talk • contribs) 08:03, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
Here are some articles from International Press (you can use Google translator-if you use chrome it'll provide option immediately):
http://www.regione.emilia-romagna.it/wcm/cinema/sezioni_primopiano/PrimoPiano/Gadoev.htm
http://domani.arcoiris.tv/girano-un-corto-in-48-ore-e-arrivano-dritti-a-cannes/
http://www.close-up.it/spip.php?article6724
http://www.flashvideo.it/news/9/2578/
http://www.radioemiliaromagna.it/cultura/cinema/videomaker_bolognesi_cannes_corto_ecologico.aspx
Also if YOU HAD READ careful our site you should have see the Press link (those are press links not blogs) with all these web press: http://www.48gogreen.com/static/web
Thank you — Preceding unsigned comment added by Apaleja (talk • contribs) 08:22, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
Final warning On Edit Warring of Efik language disputeIf My Reporting a false article is the reason you want to block me. Then Go ahead and BLOCK me.- I can be Block because I don't care to be part of a web/Encyclopedia of Lies! Although I have contributed anonymously to wikipedia since 2008, I only just signed on a few weeks ago to report an error that I thought was made. But you and your other BIASED administrators have refused to fix this error, instead you're all threatening to block me.
- : According to Wikipedia A false statement/article is removed immediatley it is realized. Yet as am reporting it you all are threatening me for causing disruption.
- You all are saying that I called I called Kwami Slow, Dumb etc. Yet Kwami used the words Ignorance first.
"As for Ukwa, your ignorance is not evidence of anything".
- What is the meaning of IGNORANCE? S/He also said;
"But we cannot have the same article under two names, nor an article on Ibibio-Efik that does not include Ibibio, nor an article on Efik that does not include Efik. A little common sense would be helpful."
- What is meaning of Common sense? Or because Kwami put it very nicely, and mine wasn't? Also I wasn't blanking the Efik page, since I just signed on it takes me a long while to write up an article. According to the statements above, Kwami said I could develop articles on Efik and Ibibio, that is what I was doing when you or your other BIASED administrators returned the articles back to the re-direct.
- : Since wikipedia says a false statement is fixed immediately it is reported, I explained out the mistakes, but Kwami kept insisting that me a native who speaks these languages was wrong and asked for sources. I provided the sources and Kwami Called A brilliant Historian who is a Million times more knowledgable than Kwami on the language;
"utterly ignorant AND not some random idiot who posted a web page".
- Yet you and your other Biased colleges are claiming that am the one attacking Kwami and causing a disruption.
- : Am done with Wikipedia, am going to be taking this issues to the Founder/head by email, once the Ibibio union are involved it might become a legal matter if Wikipedia still continues to portray this misleading information.
I will take this matter to the heads by Email first because they might not be aware of what you all supposed administrators are doing to their image. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ibibiogrl (talk • contribs) 21:41, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
Hi Mops,
Pls read my comments on the ANI page. I think Ibibiogrl means well, she just needs some guidance, and she's not willing to take it from me. — kwami (talk) 22:17, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
- Obviously we would like to have contributors from that part of the world, but Ibibiogrl's record here is so unpromising that I think we need good assurances that something will change in the future. (I would welcome any evidence that Ibibiogrl means well. It is hard to improve the encyclopedia when you have no interest in or respect for its policies. Read her statement above if you are uncertain about that). Mentorship has value only for someone who understands that something has gone wrong and would be willing to work with a mentor. EdJohnston (talk) 22:46, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
- I agree with Ed in this case - I have no grudge against Ibibiogrl, but the editor's attitude, despite multiple pleas for otherwise, remained combative and even insulting at points. If there's a serious expression of guilt and the editor decides they'd like to walk a different path, I'd be happy to help. However, as it is now, I believe the block should stand. m.o.p 22:52, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
- I agree that it would require some indication that she wants help. Just my 2¢ as the person she's most upset with. — kwami (talk) 23:05, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
- For the record, your input is highly appreciated, and very admirable; as the editor in conflict with her, I respect your neutrality and helpfulness. As for Ibibiogrl, we'll see where that goes. Cheers! m.o.p 00:59, 17 June 2011 (UTC)
Can you adopt me i want a new adopter.
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Mr. Pit (2nd nomination)
This isn't personalI belive the AFD on Campaign for "santorum" neologism was closed way to early and am contesting your close.
An editor has asked for a deletion review of Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2011 June 21. Because you closed the deletion discussion for this page, speedily deleted it, or otherwise were interested in the page, you might want to participate in the deletion review. KoshVorlon' Naluboutes Aeria Gloris 12:17, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
James Ball
Thank you for your concern. But I will not be blocked - _I am adding_ wikipedia to adblock. I also feel regret for having donated to the site before, but this will not happen again. Demonuminon (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 23:25, 23 June 2011 (UTC).
Thomas James BallWhy the hell did you delete his page?
Does his suffering mean nothing to you?
Heartless bitch. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.57.206.141 (talk • contribs)
Hey, Master of Puppets, OBVIOUSLY there is a public interested in keeping this article. Restore your deletion. Look at the massive flood of comments regarding your deletion here: http://www.<linkremoved>.com/2011/06/24/the-organized-silencing-of-a-man-publicly-burned-to-death/ and here http://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/i81rw/the_organized_silencing_of_a_man_publicly_burned/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Romerom (talk • contribs) 20:05, 24 June 2011 (UTC)
- Ball HIT A FOUR-YEAR-OLD CHILD, refused to pay child support, called for insurrection, demanded terrorism and violence as a solution, ultimately killed himself (leaving his children without a father) and damaged public property in the process. Even after all that, his incoherent message has mostly been ignored except by the less discriminating people claiming to speak for "men's rights" who haven't bothered to look into the details of his case. (If you really want to damage your cause, adopt a grown man who hits his own four-year-old child and flakes out on his child support as your poster boy.) --Orange Mike | Talk 20:26, 24 June 2011 (UTC) (proud father who has never hit his child in his lifetime)
Hey, "proud father who never hit his child in his lifetime", not everybody is against disciplining their children by spanking. He said his daughter was licking his hand, and he had told her repeatedly to stop. She didn't, and he smacked her. He didn't punch her, or send her to the hospital, or cause any serious injury. Just enough to have his wife baited into calling the police on him by child protective services. As for child support, he paid his child support until the point where he wasn't able to afford it due to an employment issue. Is that such a crazy thing to have happen? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.211.155.1 (talk) 04:28, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
- Again, while I do sympathize with the family and supporters, I am not taking sides, nor do I have any bias in this situation. I am not a feminist, nor am I a misogynist - I am fair and neutral towards all people, whether they be abusive fathers or abused fathers.
- This deletion was enforced solely in keeping with Wikipedia's long-established policies. Mr. Ball's death, while indeed tragic, was not reported throughout the reliable media enough to show his notability.
- I hope this makes sense to all those saddened by Mr. Ball's passing. Cheers, m.o.p 21:04, 24 June 2011 (UTC)
- I understand that you do not think that Mr. Ball's death is something that qualifies as an event and thus deleted said article. I disagree but I do see the merits of your argument. However, you claim to be unbiased in this debate and yet for someone who judges on the letter of the law you break the law and close debate 2.5 days before final judgment is to be rendered. If you have no corner then I ask why make this article a special case that it must be quelled , by your own admission, 2.5 days before any other articles found in similar circumstances are voted upon. I petition you to reinstate and allow the normal course of the discussion continue for the 2.5 days, allow the full opportunity for the pro side to make their case then recluse yourself from the final judgment. This is the only way to ensure transparency so that your claim of neutrality can be believed. CaffOMHW (talk) 03:28, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
- Ahead of things, let me tell you that I appreciate the civility.
- Wikipedia's policies aren't law - they're guidelines. As an administrator, it's my job to apply policy in a way that is completely devoid of bias and benefits the encyclopedia as a whole.
- On a side note, the deletion nomination was closed 1.5 days before the normal time. The page had a whole work week to be saved, rewritten or reworked; however, due to the lack of outside sourcing that carried reliability, there was nothing to keep that wasn't editorialized or unencyclopedic. I would also like to point out that almost every account that voiced their opinion in the 'keep' spectrum had either only edited that page or had edited very little aside from the page. Meanwhile, the deletion argument was put forward by experienced users.
- Though I understand that some people take offense to my early closure, I assure them that one extra day would not have yielded success, and that I took many factors into consideration before closing the discussion.
- Again, thank you for the civility, but I won't be overturning judgment or recreating a deletion discussion at this date. m.o.p 08:17, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
ITNthx for the 2 quick updates of my nom ;)
but also can you see the bolivia one. its got support and very nearly out of the news. we could tack it nearer the border.Lihaas (talk) 22:26, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
Ball closure.
Thank God you are an ambassador for WP, and against censorship, MoP. When Wikipedia fails, and it eventually will, it will largely be because most people don't like to be gamed and would rather not read well cultivated information that is maintained by dishonest brokers who hide behind rules that are never applied in an even-handed manner. The idea that a story is not relevant merely because it is not yet encyclopedic is ridiculous when one sees all the articles which linger on for months or years in the same state. The idea that a story is not relevant because the motivations/justifications of the user are suspect would be grounds for eliminating half the biographical articles in WP. It smacks of an agenda. The appearance of impropriety is as bad as actual impropriety.173.78.20.96 (talk) 04:51, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
- I appreciate the feedback.
- I do my best to maintain an equal, proportionate response in all dealings on Wikipedia; I don't defend things I like, or attack things I dislike, just for the reason of screwing with people. That strikes me as childish. Instead, the most I can do is try to help others understand Wikipedia policies, which are generally mind-bending and hard to grasp (for example, most people ask, "What's the reasoning a war hero isn't considered notable when Donkey Kong is?").
- Maybe one day the policies will change. I mean, most of these were written five, six year ago - the world's changing, and I expect they will with time. But, for now, the guidelines handle what comes in.
- Again, thanks for the input. I appreciate not being personally attacked - it makes it easier to reply. Cheers, m.o.p 05:08, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Natami (2nd nomination)
- The close was thoroughly thought-out, so there's not much ground for me to explore that I haven't already. If you're set on going to DRV, there's nothing I can say which will change your mind, and it's your right to ask for a review. However, current consensus sits at delete (unless the 'keep' side is hiding an ace-in-the-hole reliable source or something). Cheers, m.o.p 04:55, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- So, what about the reliable sources we already brought up in the AfD such as this interview in Amiga Future or this news article from nr2.ru? We've already established that Amiga Future isn't sponsored by a hardware company as one !voter there falsely claimed. On a related note, did you discount the !votes from individuals making misleading statements or those claiming there were "no independent reliable sources"? (I could tell you how that !voter happened to show up there, but he isn't going to like it.) I could also link to forum posts by another delete !voter who showed up there who was very much into a "delete at any cost" mode because he doesn't like "amiga clones". --Tothwolf (talk) 05:11, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- Those sources were there before the previous close, and I, like the previous administrator, do not think they're strong enough.
- I've already covered what kind of rationale was discounted and what wasn't.
- As for your last statement about other editors - I'm not quite sure what your point is, but I don't think it's relevant. As I said, I've discounted any rationale that does not apply policy.
- Cheers, m.o.p 05:33, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- Uh, no...nr2.ru was only brought up in the second AfD. Strong enough is also an argument to be made in a !vote, not a closing statement. --Tothwolf (talk) 05:56, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- My apologies, the Russian source was indeed added after the first AfD. Still too shaky for a stand-alone article, though. Cheers, m.o.p 13:42, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- To follow up on my earlier comment, while I don't really want to get into an "X did this because of Y" sort of thing with regards to this AfD, there were a number of delete !voters who showed up there for personal reasons/vendettas/bias and/or who made false statements about sources. Despite the template at the top of the AfD, the second AfD also didn't suffer from the forum canvassing that the first did. One of the delete !voters actually came by way of the forum and first AfD and was trolling because of his personal dislike of Amiga clones. --Tothwolf (talk) 15:33, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
If they have valid, policy-based rationale, their personal motivation doesn't matter, solely for the reason that an encyclopedia based on liking or disliking things would crumble instantly. I'm sure some of the deletion crew could just-as-easily blame keep voters for being enthusiasts and fans of Natami - but that's not important. As a result, making allegations of personal bias is unnecessary. The help is appreciated, but there's nothing I can do with the information. m.o.p 15:39, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- It matters when someone makes false statements and tries to hide what they are doing behind policy. As for keeps, quite a number appear to be from well established editors who don't appear to be all that interested in Amiga topics. As for myself, I wasn't even aware of NatAmi until the first AfD and didn't even !vote in the first AfD since I thought it was pretty obvious it was headed for a no-consensus close. --Tothwolf (talk) 15:58, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- Again, if their rationale is grounded in policy, their motivation does not matter, simply because it's impossible to discern someone's intent through text, and because the second someone accuses another of favoritism/malicious intent the entire argument turns into a bunch of people shouting, "You're lying." That's why there's nothing I can do with your information in this case. Cheers, m.o.p 16:02, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- Apologies to you, M.O.P., for addressing another editor on your talk page, but I just wanted to jump in this conversation. Tothwolf, with no prejudice against you at all I strongly suggest you take this in perspective. There have been two AFDs and an ANI report over this article. The way you treated me on my talk page threatening DRV because I was a new administrator was, as I feel it, borderline harassing. That you canvassed two other administrators to talk to me was also a below the belt move. In good faith, I relisted the debate and it has closed again as delete. I strongly suggest taking the advice at WP:DGAF into account here and let the issue go. I don't think there will be a problem recreating this article, even pulling the old content back from the deletion log, when the subject has better sources in a broader community. I hold no ill feeling toward you, this is purely honest advice.--v/r - TP 16:46, 27 June 2011 (UTC)]
- TParis, while you are correct in that this talk page is not the place for this, because you brought this up here and you seem to value honest feedback, I'll address this here.
In no way did I ever threaten you with DRV, let alone because you were a new administrator (discussion in question). I did however upon noticing that you had passed RFA only days earlier decide it best not to press you further in public and instead sent you this short email: "Sigh. I just noticed you just finished your RFA. The Natami AfD was a bad AfD to pick to close right out of the gate. It is likely to end up at DRV and given the magazine I mentioned, overturned. I really wish you would reconsider your close. You might have noticed I didn't even !vote in the AfD itself, however I did point out a number of things and took a couple of people to task for making false or misleading statements." That is the only email I sent you about the matter and not once did I ever threaten you with DRV. Please get your facts correct before making statements such as this because such mistakes can have a negative effect on others.
After you replied expressing your disagreement over the sources (and implied that I might be biased because I sometimes contribute to computing-related articles) I asked a number of other administrators (way more than two, actually) what they thought of the AfD's close because I wanted unbiased feedback to see if I was somehow totally off-track before I initiated a DRV. The feedback I got was fairly unanimous in that the close was problematic. Before I had a chance to draft a DRV however, you reverted your own close and relisted the AfD from scratch with a new listing. In no way did I ever "canvass" anyone to "talk to you" and if others did contact you directly, they did so at their own discretion and for their own reasons.
There indeed have been two AfDs, the first of which you closed (although one could also argue that the second was merely a relist of the first). The AN/I "discussion" you also mentioned wasn't really over this article or the first AfD, it was an attempt by someone to game AN/I when they were unable to bully me on their talk page. Please be more careful making these sort of blanket statements in the future because as I mentioned above such statements can cause problems for others. --Tothwolf (talk) 17:38, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- You're email was exactly like your reply here. You like to make threats without actually making them: "such statements can cause problems". There is very little way your email cannot be interpreted as anything other than a threat of DRV because I am a new administrator. This is all I'll say on M.O.P.'s talk page as I came here to offer honest advice and you don't seem interested in it. If you'd like to discuss further with me, you know where to find my talk page.--v/r - TP 17:51, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- TParis, in no way did I ever make an implied threat. While I may be a little blunt and abrasive at times (or maybe I'm just an assume good faith in that you simply misremembered the facts I outlined above when you made this statement here. It is easy to forget a few details here or there and not everyone maintains detailed notes for this sort of stuff (I do, for a number of reasons, although I didn't always).
As far as honest advice goes, this is a two-way street and I gave you my opinion as well. If you choose to ignore and discount it, so be it, but I'd suggest you be much more careful in the future and get your facts correct before you make the sort of statement you made above. Such statements can and do cause problems for other editors. Who knows, it may just be that you've not been around long enough yet to have witnessed people blocked or punished in some way because someone else didn't have their facts together. (If you do decide you want to continue this discussion, perhaps we should take this elsewhere.) --Tothwolf (talk) 18:14, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
]
Heaton Park Hebrew Congregation (2nd nomination)
Natami
Thought you might want to know
- (talk page stalker) That's just the same little ideological website which has been pushing for the "Martyrdom of St. Thomas Ball" attention since day one; no actual new coverage. --Orange Mike | Talk 14:34, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
- I guess I should also mention that the way I found it, was that someone tried submitting it to Fark.com last night. The admins did not greenlight it, so that particular submission/thread did not go to the main Fark page, appearing only to those with Totalfark accounts. The submission said something like "Wikipedia deletes burning man" (I'm not at a computer with TF access so I might not have that exactly right). It might, theoretically, based on the submission, be considered some sort of off-site canvassing (it was submitted with the asinine tag). For what its worth, the thread went uncommented, so I don't think that particular attempt garnered any support. I just wanted to drop a line in case that this was just the first drop of a large storm. If I see anything else, I'll drop a line here. Umbralcorax (talk) 15:58, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
Wiki ad
4chan raid
Thomas James Bell, new information
- (reliable sources. --Orange Mike | Talk 13:33, 30 June 2011 (UTC)]
Happy Birthday
![](//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3d/Nuvola_apps_cookie.svg/50px-Nuvola_apps_cookie.svg.png)
Just a happy Birthday message to you, Master of Puppets, from the Wikipedia Birthday Committee! Have a great day!
Monterey Bay (talk) 02:00, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
User:BillyMoses
Natami
AFD
- Your input is appreciated, though there's nothing I can do with it but take a note. If you'd like, you can weigh in at the next AfD(s), when/if they arise. Cheers, m.o.p 19:42, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
Dr Myko San – Health from Mushrooms
- I'd be happy to help! However, I'm currently away from a computer (typing this on my phone), so I'll have to check in on the 11th of July. Does that sound okay? m.o.p 15:40, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
- wp:NODEADLINE :-) LeadSongDog come howl! 15:48, 7 July 2011 (UTC)]
From a former Wikipedian
-71.234.90.0 (talk) 04:50, 8 July 2011 (UTC)
- Hey, thanks so much! I'm not sure who you are, but I really appreciate the sentiment. Hope all is well! m.o.p 20:49, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
Deletion review for Thomas James Ball
DRV comment
DRV
Could you please overturn the deletion of these files per File:Signature of Amitabh Bachchan.svg and File:Signature of Zakir Hussain.svg:
- File:Signature of Vishwanathan Anand.svg
- File:Signature of Vijay Mallya.svg
- File:Signature of Venkaiah Naidu.svg
- File:Signature of Sudeep Bandhopadhyay.svg
- File:Signature of Sonia Gandhi.svg
- File:Signature of Somnath Chatterjee.svg
- File:Signature of Ratan Tata.svg
- File:Signature of Kumar Mangalam Birla.svg
- File:Signature of Rajeev Shukla.svg
- File:Signature of Raj Babbar.svg
- File:Signature of Rahul Gandhi.svg
- File:Signature of Priyanka Vadra.svg
- File:Signature of P. T. Usha.svg
- File:Signature of Narendra Modi.svg
- File:Signature of Nandan Nilekani.svg
- File:Signature of Manish Tewari.svg
- File:Signature of Leander Paes.svg
- File:Signature of Lata Mangeshkar.svg
- File:Signature of Kumar Mangalam Birla.svg
- File:Signature of Karia Munda.svg
- File:Signature of Kapil Sibal.svg
- File:Signature of Kamal Nath.svg
- File:Signature of K. Kamraj.svg
- File:Signature of Jaya Bachchan.svg
- File:Signature of Gautam Gambhir.svg
- File:Signature of Brinda Karat.svg
- File:Signature of Bharatsinh Solanki.svg
- File:Signature of Bhairon Singh Shekhawat.svg
- File:Signature of B. K. Birla.svg
- File:Signature of Azim Premji.svg
- File:Signature of Arun Jaitely.svg
- File:Signature of Aishwarya Rai Bachchan.svg
- File:Signature of Abhishek Manu Singhvi.svg
- File:Signature of Abhishek Bachchan.svg
- File:Signature of Sting.svg
- File:Signature of Br. L. D. Lobo.svg
- File:Signature of VJ Rannvijay Singh Singha.svg
Diligent07Appears to be less than new. See User talk:Raoulduke25 where he states that this is a deliberate series of edits.
- Can you please help defend our collective effort of including the obscene middle-finger incident in the Cheney Mason article? It should be maintained in the article for public interest, etc. Please see the Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard#Cheney Mason discussion page and include your thoughts in favor of having the content remain in the interests of the public, etc
[8], [9] and even imputation that an editor has a connection with the person [10]. He has been on since April, and started off as being experienced on WP IMHO. Kindly keep an eye out please. Especially for any sign of a real "collective effort"? Such as [11]? Cheers. Collect (talk) 11:36, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
A cookie for you!
Keep up the good work defending the "Wiki" against genre warriors. Thanks for the help! talk) 17:31, 13 July 2011 (UTC)]
Hello. You have a new message at Lionelt's talk page.
Semi protection
OK, this thing with the militant atheism page is impossibleThese guys are incredible... I could dig up diffs to show you how they revert and wikilawyer even the SMALLEST attempt to move the article closer to NPOV. But that would take a long time for you to read. How about I show you this instead:
These guys are utterly without scruples. Who in their right mind would remove the NPOV dispute tag when heated arguments have been raging for weeks and NO moves whatsoever have been made to fix the article? Oh right, that would be someone in their right mind who is running a propaganda platform.
Anyway... I wanted to ask your advice on what to do. These guys are impossible to work with. Most of the other editors have given up and refuse to put this page on their watchlist. So what to do then? Request formal mediation? Articles for deletion? Something else?
Me and the other editors would like to see the page replaced with a disambiguation page... since literally ALL the content has already been covered (better) in Criticism of atheism, State atheism and New Atheism.
Obhave (talk) 13:21, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
- Hello User:Master of Puppets. I noticed this conversation and thought I might add that an NPOV policy. Obhave (talk) 13:11, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
- One more thing, m.o.p... my opponents are currently twisting your words to make it look as if you were scolding user:Mann_jess all along. Obhave (talk) 14:42, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
]
User:Jasper Deng page protection
- No worries! m.o.p 19:35, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
Is there a procedure for brutal uncollaborated editing with a destructive intent?I noticed that you recently had problems with proposed brutal editing by Peter S Strempel. Although he has been more sensible on your project in the end (possibly because of your administrator status?) he has not been so with regard to the astrology project pages to which he made a similar 'razor-promise'. Could you please see this Afd request which is one of three he made for major 'history of astrology' articles within the last hour, with a promise on another important page that any comment which is not refrences within 7 days will be removed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Babylonian_astrology
Is there anything that can be done about this officially to stop him wreaking havoc with content whilst he knows that the small group of editors providing content on these pages are already stretched to the limit trying to keep up with what needs to be done? I don't understand what drives some people to want to edit WP like this, but I think it is entriely the result of his ego-stress that when he proposed an edit for a passage, no one favoured it. Hope you can help or advise Zac Δ talk 01:15, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks! assume good faith; I believe that Peter is simply trying to help improve Wikipedia. While his methods may be lacking in some areas, he has displayed a pretty decent grasp on the policies he's trying to enforce.
- However, I agree that he shouldn't be making any changes if they're not discussed with the community first. Do you mind pulling up a few diffs of where he went against consensus? I'll approach him with your concern then. Thanks, m.o.p 03:57, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
- Actually there hasn't been any significant content dispute with Peter. He proposed a change to a section edit which wasn't a very good proposition and a few editors commented but without rancur, and I added a new section post immediately afterwards to point out the proiposed change would contradict with how the definition was given correctly at a later point in the article, outlining how I understood WP policy expected the main astrology article to pull its own content together, along with its summarised content from its daughter pages. Peter never responded to this but other editors started working in that direction immediately. Then, without further discussion or comment, Peter came back four days later to announce an intention to take his 'word razor' to all unreferenced assertions on the main astrology page, its sub-pages, and the portal page itself, to ensure his perceived disagreement was not circumvented in pages he viewed as content forks (I'm still not sure what he means by that). My response to that can be seen - a perfectly reasonable request for him to do what he felt was most productive, but consider that citation-tagging was the way to go. I also placed comments on his talk-page, which you can read if you are interested. That he erupted into a frenzy of AfD requests last night says something, I think, about his unwillingness to discuss and engage in other views. Most of his posts appear as new section declarations that don't appear to have considered the responses other editors give him.
- I've summarised this in the ANI request Dougweller started. The deletion requests were a step too far IMO, and I'm concerned that Peter would spring to such drastic measures in reaction to what he perceives to be me not allowing him to do what he wants to do. I'll be away for a few days so I'm tying up my WP activity now. That underlines my concern that he intends to take such drastic action with only one week's notice of intent. Thanks for looking into this. It would be good if something could be proposed to stop huge problems before they occur. 10:35, 22 July 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zachariel (talk • contribs
)
- One last request. I have just noticed that a related complaint, which is quite serious but has been sidetracked (deliberatly IMO) by Peter's suggestions that I have prevented him from doing what he wants, has been collapsed as "going nowehere" by an unsympathetic editor.
- "Its ben here several days and no admin has even sniffed at a block or ban - clearly you're not going to get admin action. So this should got to WP:DR or WP:RFCU if you want to take it further. I've boldly collapsed this, though I won't be surprised if someone uncollapses it"
- If you can find the time could you at least take a look at that related problem, and consider uncollapsing it, because the issues are serious and have gone beyond the point where Dispute resolution are appropriate. I will be away and have nothing more to add, but the problems identified still remain. Zac Δ talk 10:58, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
What to do?
- I've started a threat at ANI. Those AfDs are purely pointy and if no one objects I'll close them. talk) 06:11, 22 July 2011 (UTC)]
- Replied there. m.o.p 08:20, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
Talk Page on Militant Atheism - Introduction Section
- The update is appreciated, thanks very much. I've been dealing with life for the past two weeks, but I'll be back to close that discussion tonight or tomorrow. Thanks again, m.o.p 22:03, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
- Just bringing this up again, given the current state of this section. I believe the discussion will be archived automatically if not closed. I'm sorry if I sound pushy with you having a lot on your plate of late. If you would prefer, I could alert User:Fastily instead. Turnsalso (talk) 16:55, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
ITN
- I knew that tab I closed had unfinished business on it... thanks. 2008 University of Central Arkansas shootings is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.
The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2008 University of Central Arkansas shootings(2nd nomination) until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on good quality evidence, and our policies and guidelines.
Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article.
talk 14:00, 1 September 2011 (UTC)]
Hey
- Done! Both your userpage and the transcluded page are protected. Cheers, « ₣M₣ » 04:09, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Restored. m.o.p 05:21, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
]
User talk:Joshua the Independent
- My mistake - my block script auto-filled the edit summary. The block was issued due to the user's newfound will to disrupt Wikipedia intentionally. Their previous contributions are welcome, but this behaviour necessitates administrative action. m.o.p 21:52, 13 September 2011 (UTC)
Say hi to your imaginary girlfriend for me
- Well, I do love getting hate mail. Thanks for the laugh! Cheers, m.o.p 05:17, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
...further to the above lovely note, I weighed in on Calabe's talk page - there appears to be more confusion here than at first glance. bou·le·var·dier (talk) 05:19, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
Sorry to drop by again, but Silentsizzlingsausage (talk · contribs) would appear to be a duck. bou·le·var·dier (talk) 05:31, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
- No, it's not an issue! Thanks for the note, blocked. Cheers, WP:SPI. Thanks again, m.o.p 06:13, 14 September 2011 (UTC)]
I have to admit ...
- See the above section. The link is apparently a very subtle spam link that Calabe is removing, and socks are springing up to revert him. Swarm u / t 10:20, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
Moderation
- Alright, I'll make my way back. Thanks for letting me know! m.o.p 05:18, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
User:12.139.96.228
- To be honest, this case is perplexing. Half of this user's edits are constructive (mostly sourced), the other half aren't sourced - and the user won't reply to anybody. I'm also too busy to go through every edit and confirm whether or not it's good. I forgot about this for a while - I'll think about it tonight and figure something out for tomorrow. Thanks for reminding me! m.o.p 05:18, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
Whoops
- Whoops! Must not have been looking when I ran my block script. Thanks for letting me know, I've reblocked them for a far shorter (technically, an infinitely shorter) time. Cheers, m.o.p 22:58, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
Ashleyleggat404
- You're fully right in that the blanking policy covers indefinite blocks. I've removed the user's talk page rights as a result. Thanks again! m.o.p 00:28, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkback
Moderation
- If you look into this please consider whether Anupam's actions on the talk page and the entry itself are violations of WP:OWN. He's been driving off those he disagrees with by bludgening them to death with argument and heavily policing the entry claiming that there is a consensus written in stone despite many dissenting voices. Others have taken to simply calling him "the article's owner." I have had enough of this behavior personally and left him a message about it on his talk page. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:52, 20 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Dear User:Master of Puppets, the above user has misrepresented the occurrences at the article. I started another Introduction discussion at the article's talk page but User:Griswaldo has chosen to edit war over a second NPOV tag, despite the fact that one already exists in the article. He has done so despite the fact that the Introduction is being discussed in a peaceful manner at the talk page, in violation of your injunction: "We've only got consensus on this proposed versions (and loose consensus at that) - please do not attempt to subvert said consensus by making undiscussed changes." I have posted a message on his talk page about this behaviour. Nevertheless, I also do not wish to argue with the user personally and would prefer if you could go back to moderating the discussion between the two parties at the talk page. Thanks for taking the time to read this message. With regards, AnupamTalk 20:58, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- His "injunction?" Adding a neutrality tag to a specific sentence which an editor disputes the neutrality of is hardly "subverting the consensus by making undiscussed changes." Please stop wikilawyering to get your way. There is a growing consensus against your position regarding this article in general as well, despite your aggressive policing of the entry and the talk page. See ]
- I just thought that I would mention that User:Griswaldo, after seeing this message, just now decided to comment in the discussion rather than edit war against consensus further. Thanks for taking the time to read this message. With regards, AnupamTalk 21:51, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- "Edit war against consensus further?" My comment there has nothing to do with your message here. I've made three total edits to this entry ever. One was a copy edit in June, another was reverting an IP vandal, and the third was the revert of your Ownership edit. Please do not insinuate that I'm a edit warrior on this page. It is disingenuous.Griswaldo (talk) 22:08, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Thank you all for approaching me with your concerns.
- Obviously, I do not support Anupam - this is because I'm remaining a neutral third party, and, therefore, can't take sides. However, Griswaldo: please keep in mind that I did ask for all discussion to take place on the talk page. Why not just add your complaints to the talk page? It would have been much easier to discuss.
- I do agree that adding a NPOV tag, while slightly redundant, isn't horrible, but your intent seems to have been to stir discussion on that particular section, discussion that would be much more appropriate on the talk page.
- As for your and Snalwibma's concerns of Anupam trying to 'own' the article, I'm curious as to what you two mean; what 'delusions'?
- Also, Griswaldo, I don't think Anupam meant to insinuate you are an edit warrior (though this is just my take) - rather, they wanted to add the note that you've weighed in on discussion. m.o.p 22:10, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- your intent seems to have been to stir discussion on that particular section - No that's incorrect. I didn't add this tag, I simply reverted Anupam's attempt to own the page when he removed it. I agreed with JimWae's addition of the tag and found Anupam's removal to be unwarranted and a display of ownership.Griswaldo (talk) 22:16, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Note that, for all intents and purposes, reverting somebody is adding whatever is included in your edit, regardless of who put it there first. You revert a removal, you're agreeing with the edition you're reverting to - simple.
- And, if you agreed with JimWae, then we go back to what I was saying earlier - say so on the talk page. Two of you agree? Great! That's closer to consensus. But it means nothing if you express your support by reverting removals.
- Again, as I've asked multiple times, please stop saying that Anupam is owning anything without giving me evidence of it first. m.o.p 22:22, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Dear User:Master of Puppets, thank you for your reply to all of us. The reason User:Snalwibma stated that I was attempting to "own" the article was because I reverted an undiscussed removal from the article, which not only myself, but two other users objected to. In fact, two anonymous IP Addresses also reverted User:Snalwibma. I was open to compromise on the issue and stated that I would accept User:Turnsalso's compromise on the issue. I kindly request you to look at that discussion yourself and get an honest reading of it. Also, the only reason I removed the second NPOV tag was because there was already one present, which I did not remove. I only reverted the addition of a second NPOV tag once and even explained myself on the talk page. When I went to the talk page, I found rude accusations and an anti-collaborative spirit, despite the fact that I have been nothing but polite. I hope this helps. With regards, AnupamTalk 22:25, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry - I know I should not rise to the bait, but I have to object to the comment "The reason User:Snalwibma stated that I was attempting to 'own' the article was because I reverted an undiscussed removal ..." How dare Anupam presume to know what is in my mind! The reason I describe Anupam's attitude to the article as one of ownership is because that is how s/he behaves - "policing" every edit, pronouncing on whether s/he "accepts" or "rejects" it, peremptorily reverting anything s/he does not like, without discussion, presuming to know others' motives, and judging them as fit/unfit to contribute to the article. This has been going on for weeks, if not months. It is impossible to discuss the content of the article, let alone improve the text, because everything is filtered through the approval/disapproval of the article's self-appointed guardian, Anupam. tendentious or disruptive when they bring up certain issues, even when they are clearly in the majority. That is not collaborative. I stopped editing the article heavily because of those issues. I don't have any delusions that my opinion is worth more than anyone else's here, but I would think that the large number of established, experienced editors who are all saying there's a problem, would indicate something. — Jess· Δ♥ 19:45, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
Please reconsider your full protection of Militant atheist
- In case you didn't notice, I asked that people think twice about pointing fingers at each other. If you'd like to start a sockpuppetry investigation, let me know, and we can take that avenue - however, don't accuse other editors of ownership without substance. If you think Anupam is trying to own things, give me something. Diffs, edits, anything. I'll check it out for you, but right now, baseless accusations are not what I'm looking for.
- Also, notice that I protected the article with your edit being the last one. How is that validating the very person you've been reverting?
- The protection will stay until consensus is reached. m.o.p 22:19, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Because protection is what he wants quite clearly. He's stalling conversation and shouting down people on the talk page, where, if you have a look, you'll see he's clearly in the minority. Because of your "injunction" as he calls it, he also claims that no matter how many people agree with a certain change it is illegitimate. I'll be happy to gather some diffs, but my first message to you above was to please look into the situation carefully before acting on it. Did you do that and come to the conclusion that I'm wrong or did you not head that request? Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:29, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Yes, I did heed your request. I don't see any ownership behaviour from Anupam, though, being involved in multiple disputes, I didn't have the time to read every last word on the page, so you're free to provide evidence. However, from what I can see, Anupam's last proposal was supported by the majority - not to count (and I don't mean to imply that I decide where consensus lies by looking at pure numbers), but from looking at pure supports versus opposes, eight people (nine including Anupam) support while four oppose. How does that make Anupam's views a minority? m.o.p 22:37, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- It depends on what view you are talking about. The current RFC on the introduction is something that most people don't even want to engage because most people think this very entry should be split up and integrated into other entries. I reluctantly engaged the RfC just now myself. The last time the more serious question about the entry was asked, several of the new commentators were not around, and there was "no consensus" found because the opposing side was chalk full of SPAs and editors with a view that is outright hostile to atheism (which is a legitimate view to hold, but it is a minority view). Let me find you some diffs.Griswaldo (talk) 22:43, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- User:Griswaldo, that is exactly the issue: you do not want to collaborate with other users on the talk page, which is why you were reluctant to participate in the current RfC. Moreover, there were several SPA's on the side of the opposition as well, including WP:NPOV. In addition, the split was again recently discussed and the specific case to do so was refuted by several editors. As such, there was no consensus for it. I hope this helps. With regards, AnupamTalk 22:52, 20 September 2011 (UTC)]
- No. You are trying to write an article that violates WP:SYNTH because it conflates New Atheism with oppressive communist regimes and their histories of violence. That's hardly NPOV. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:59, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
Hi m.o.p., as someone who occasionally looks at that page (and then washes my hands), I just want to compliment you as having done the right thing in full protecting. By way of unsolicited advice to the involved editors, the best thing they could do is to allow The Wrong Version to sit there a good long time, and devote their energy to other things. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:54, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
]
Yes, please reconsider your full protection of
WP:RS—deserve protection against misinformed reverts. Thanks Geremia (talk) 16:12, 22 September 2011 (UTC)]
Diffs of
- I'm not really sure where the ownership is here; nowhere in our policies is it stated that a user can't promote their RFC on the subject talk page. If it's ongoing and they'd like to move it to the forefront, what's wrong with that? More so, some of your summaries seem inaccurate - in that last diff, you state that Anupam is removing images, yet I only see Anupam adding an image (the peace dove that's at the top of the page). Also, you use repeating examples. m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Well clearly the last diff was wrong. Thanks for the vote of confidence. There are no repeat examples nor inaccurate summaries, just a mistaken copy paste of the second to last diff to the last position as well. I have fixed it. Cheers.
- Using "consensus claims from one RfC to reject changes made to article content
- Same as above. Using the "consensus" bludgeon to get his way. Please note that clearly we ought to edit by consensus, but this consensus is highly disputed, and IMO not there in the first place. The real problem is the way in which Anupam decides to use it like a trump card to remove changes he doesn't like. Ask yourself if all changes post "consensus" have been removed or just the ones Anupam decided he wanted removed.
Master of Puppets do you need more diffs or is this enough?Griswaldo (talk) 23:31, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Well I need more diffs because your "evidence" so far looks like a desperate attempt to incriminate an editor who has been very successful in persuading his colleagues to adopt his proposals. Anupam has presented his proposals, argued the merits and persuaded many editors. Anything you want to tell us about why you're having difficulty doing likewise? – Lionel (talk) 06:02, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- I don't see this is as conclusive evidence, either. And, it should be said - if people are editing against established consensus, then people are free to re-evaluate consensus, but edit-warring against it doesn't make much sense. m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- If not ownership then what is this - [28], [29], [30]? He removes two RfCs started by another editor, and revolving around the question that many of us actually find to be the fundamental question to answer regarding the entry. Then he edit wars to keep these RfCs off the page, claiming again to have some sort of authority stemming from your prior actions. If you aren't willing to do something here I'm going to another administrator and I'm going to ask for your initial "consensus," your strong arm administrating, and your lack of action here to be reviewed as well. Thanks.Griswaldo (talk) 17:08, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Anupam has already apologized for reverting those RfC additions, and we've moved past it. He also didn't claim to have administrative authority, but was waiting for my approval. We've cleared this up, it's not an issue. So no, I'm not going to take any action (as I've said here and on ANI). Now, if you'd like to threaten me and tell me that, since I'm not cooperating with your wills, you'll go to another administrator, that's fine - as I've said, you can seek outside opinions - but remember to keep a cool head, because borderline threats are not appreciated. m.o.p 21:49, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- It was not a threat, "borderline" or otherwise. You are conveniently ignoring a growing number of voices who are all saying the same thing - there is an ownership problem here. The deletion issue has not been "cleared up" as far as I'm concerned. Whenever it is mentioned Anupam insists that he did not "unilaterally" delete the RfCs from the page, which is a blatant distortion, since that is exactly what he did. He continues to act as a policeman at the page, and yes he does continue to cite your authority. Did you bother to read the many diffs I posted above in the second two sections? I will quote three random examples from those I provided for you if you want.
- When he first deleted the two RfCs he wrote: "rv - see discussion with reviewing administrator; approval needed to start another RfC while one is already occurring."
- When he deleted a fact tag that JimWae put into the lede: "rv excessive tagging per talk; tag is already extant in header; do not subvert previous consensus but gain consensus for potential additions per administrative notice"
- When he rejected another recent change to the entry: "accepted edits by User:Jkhwiki; rv removal of longstanding referenced content - see discussion on talk page and gain consensus for action per administrative injunction"
- In talk page comments and in edit summaries he consistently does the same thing. He refers to your authority, either directly or indirectly through your "notice" or your "injunction" as he likes to call it. I never said the claimed to have administrative authority, I said that he's using your authority, by way of your comments, such as the closure of the AfD to bully people. Do you deny that he citing your comments, because if you do then I must have fabricated those quotes. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:32, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
If you say "If you don't do A, then I'm going to go and do B", that's a threat. Anyway, that's not the issue - we've already covered all the issues with the RfC reverting, and Anupam won't do it again. Why keep raising hell over it?
We've already covered everything you bring up. And no, I'm not denying anything. I'm just saying this, and it's very simple: I don't think there has been any blatant ownership here. That's my judgment. If you disagree, again, feel free to raise this with another administrator or on ANI. m.o.p 23:12, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Regarding the new RFC, I still think there has not passed yet too much time since the last discussion about splitting the article. As far as I knew, repeating these sorts of debates (like splitting, deleting, renaming) before a larger amount of time has passed (like 6 months) is usually discouraged. And as others have also argued earlier, even if having multiple RFCs is possible, it's not very useful, and the new RFC seems to discourage further discussion about improving the lead introduction. So preventing multiple RFCs (and also a RFC about an issue debated not too long ago) does not look to me like evidence of bad faith intentions. Cody7777777 (talk) 21:37, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Cody, would you mind linking me to the previous RfC on splitting? m.o.p 21:49, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- The previous attempt to split the article can be found here. Cody7777777 (talk) 21:55, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Response
Yes, it does. Thanks, m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Dear User:Master of Puppets, I just noticed that User:Binksternet started another RfC while a current one is occurring. Is this appropriate? I reverted the addition motioning for one until your response is confirmed. If it is acceptable, then I apologize and will revert my edit. I look forward to your response. With regards, AnupamTalk 15:14, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'll form my reply on ANI. m.o.p 17:12, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- When you do please take into account my comment just above, regarding Anupam's edit warring to remove talk page comments (namely these RfCs) posted by others on the talk page. If you still don't think this is WP:OWN then clearly other administrators are needed here.Griswaldo (talk) 17:15, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Dear User:Griswaldo, how is going to a neutral mediator to address the issue owning the article? I acknowledge that the article is in dispute and as a result, I am asking an administrator for advice in this matter, NOT handling things on my own, as you have done by edit warring. Your WP:OWN allegations have not only been dismissed by this administrator, but by several other users, including, User:Lionelt, User:Cody7777777 and User:NYyankees51. Thanks, AnupamTalk 17:27, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- In reply to Griswaldo: reverting the RfCs was a mistake, but we've cleared that up now. As Anupam has stated at ANI, the intent was not to discourage discussion. If you think my judgment is compromised, you're welcome to seek another administrator's input. m.o.p 21:04, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- And as further evidence of WP:OWN, see this. Anupam adds a comment to everything that anyone else says, as if he/she is the owner of the article and everyone else is a subordinate contributor. This particular instance is pretty benign (although it clutters up the talk page with an unnecessary comment that merely says "I agree"), but I do think that Anupam at least needs to learn how to avoid giving the appearance of thinking he/she owns the article, and to desist from chipping in and saying the same thing over and over again, which almost makes meaningful discussion impossible! SNALWIBMA ( talk - contribs ) 17:31, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- While the input is appreciated, as I've said before, making allegations of ownership without hard evidence isn't going to get us anywhere. Anupam is not stopping others from discussing changes or forming consensus, and that's all that matters - refactoring the talk page or commenting on an issue is not against policy, and I'm not going to tell someone to stop editing because it "looks" like they're doing something wrong. As said above, you're welcome to request another administrator's insight if you wish. m.o.p 21:04, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
COIHi
you've helped me out before, with a conflict of interest problem, so having much more experience than me on wikipedia, I thought I would be bold enough to ask again for help.
Similar problem to last, User_talk:Hobbycraft is editing the HOBBYCRAFT article and making changes that aren't citably right. I think the user name suggest and history suggests a conflict of interest case.
Can you please, speak to them addressing this issue.
Thank you very much for your help.
Markcoulter50 (talk) 22:27, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
- I've blocked that user for username violations. Thanks a lot for letting me know! Keep up the great work, m.o.p 23:00, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkbackcausa sui (talk) 18:47, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Hello. You have a new message at causa sui's talk page. causa sui (talk) 20:54, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Problematic editing on militant atheism
- I hope it's not considered defamatory to repeat the final line: "I merely present the diffs above, and let others draw their own conclusions. Is this a duck? Does it quack? You decide.". Unfortunately, the concerned community no longer has that opportunity. What did you decide on their behalf? Does this duck quack, or not? bobrayner (talk) 15:42, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- It's not your wording, it's the very idea of it. Going to what's allegorically a public place and shouting, "Hey, everybody, this man is a criminal!" is one step below blatantly forming a lynch mob. As I've said, I have no problem with your wording or evidence, just your location of choice. Wikipedia is not, unfortunately, a democracy - letting others draw their conclusions and voice their opinions is not how a sockpuppet investigation works.
- So yes, please don't go restoring any of that section. We're not discussing editors, we're discussing the content they produce. Anything else has a sub-board to deal with it (like WP:SPI).
- Hopefully that clears things up! I'll be happy to answer any more questions should you have them. Cheers, m.o.p 15:48, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Hello User:Bobrayner, I noticed the section you created on the militant atheism talk page. If you do feel the way you do about User:Turnsalso and the anonymous IP Addresses, you can take this up with WP:SPI. Thanks, AnupamTalk 15:52, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
Are you kidding my MoP? Above your write: Going to what's allegorically a public place and shouting, "Hey, everybody, this man is a criminal!" is one step below blatantly forming a lynch mob. AND We're not discussing editors, we're discussing the content they produce. Yet you call this edit by Lionelt "good faith," at WQA? MoP, I would not ask you to agree with me or to like me, but can I please ask you not to insult me with these double standards.Griswaldo (talk) 16:18, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
]
- Griswaldo, I mean no offense when I say this, but I'd appreciate it if you stayed out of discussions which didn't involve you. Also, please don't put words in my mouth. Thanks, m.o.p 16:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I have not put words in your mouth. You said that you would assume good faith about Lionel. If you "assume good faith" it means you assume his edits were in "good faith." If you did not intend that meaning I suggest you reconsider what you wrote. Also, if you want me to "stay out of discussion which don't involve me" then I suggest your first order of business should be to do the same thing yourself. You decided to post at WQA, when there was no mention of you or anything you've done in that thread. Once again, I expect people not to practice double standards. So as long as you cannot show me that you will treat me as you ask to be treated yourself, I will not oblige you. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:21, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Please stop bickering. I'm not quite sure what you're trying to accomplish here. I've already explained what I meant when I said assuming good faith, but I'll explain again: I assumed that Lionelt was not hounding or deliberately haranguing you. I did not say, at any point, that his edit content was good faith, and I've told him not to edit like that again. So please stop accusing me of saying things I haven't said.
- Also, I posted in WQA because, as a mediator in this case and as an administrator, it's my duty to weigh in on administrative noticeboards, especially when the case is an ongoing discussion I've been participating in for three months. It is not your duty to weigh in on discussions on my talk page that don't concern you. I hope the distinction is clear here. m.o.p 20:33, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I think you are confused about something. Content is never good faith. "Editing in good faith" and "good faith edits" refers to the intent of the editor always. It has nothing to do with content. My assumption that you also felt the edits were appropriate comes from the fact that you did not say they weren't appropriate and clearly feel that his intentions were good. If you'd like to set the record straight on that issue you still can. I've asked you twice now to discuss the actual edits that are the focal point of the thread. Also, I moved the thread to ANI, per the suggestion of the editor who marked it "resolved."Griswaldo (talk) 20:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- See Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#User:Lionelt_--_following_my_past_edits_to_drum_up_support_against_me. FYI, I copy pasted the entire discussion because both you and Collect were critical of my initial post and I thought it was the right thing to do to preserve that criticism in the record of the conversation. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:43, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- In reply to your first paragraph: I'm going to give up now, as it seems you're misunderstanding most of what I type, but you're the one who stated that the content was not good faith (as you said, not appropriate), and I agreed - I referred to his intent in replying to you, and said that I assumed good faith in his motives, not his replies. I can't really say that in a clearer way, so my apologies if it's hard to understand. Also, as I've already said, I've left a message for Lionelt about his edits, so clearly I do not feel they're appropriate. m.o.p 20:57, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I, too, find these double standards vexing.
- Which diff is defamatory?
- I had hitherto thought that people on the article talkpage might like to be aware of potential problems with votestacking on the article talkpage (and 3rr evasion, of course). Would it be permitted to add a link to that list of diffs when it's in a different place, or would you consider that defamatory too? bobrayner (talk) 16:23, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- As I said, the information is not defamatory, but the way it's presented is - we have specific processes available to pursue should one feel there are sockpuppets about. However, calling someone out with the intent of informing the community is overstepping your authority and damaging to the accused's character. Also, there's no way a community discussion about whether or not one editor is a sockpuppet can end in anything other than a sockpuppet investigation anyway.
- So, in closing, please don't bring issues like this to the talk page. If you're concerned about votestacking, take it to the appropriate venue - if your concerns are validated, we'll take measures against said puppets. Cheers, m.o.p 16:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I am very disappointed that it's no longer permissible to raise problems with article-editing on the article talkpage. Previous concerns about sockpuppetry were simply ignored; the difference this time is that it's backed by lots of diffs.
- I'm fairly confident that the people concerned have sufficient technical nous to make checkuser draw a blank. And, let's be entirely honest, within minutes of me creating an SPI, an admin of the right persuasion will be getting an email suggesting that an SPI needs their attention. And SPI does not see offsite coordination by a facebook group &c. Finally, any null result at SPI will be used at the article in much the same way as previous administrative decisions have been. So, I do not believe that an SPI will improve either the article, or the encyclopædia as a whole. bobrayner (talk) 17:08, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- If you don't think the pre-existing methods set in place for situations like this are sufficient, you can always raise that concern at the village pump or suggest a policy revision - however, SPI is the venue for these requests, and the only venue. The talk page can not substitute. m.o.p 17:10, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
76.228.226.122Thank you for blocking the anonymous user, who is being counterproductive and rude. (although I think the block should have been one week, but I guess ok at least)
Can you also please try to hide the edit summaries of these edits if possible?
This and
this
Thanks and regards, talk 05:04, 26 September 2011 (UTC)]
- I'll extend the block if this behaviour continues after the block period is over.
- As for the edit summaries, those don't warrant hiding - I apologize for their content, but they don't meet the criteria of what I should remove. It's best just to ignore them for now. Cheers, m.o.p 05:13, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
- Okay, good to know, if I did nothing wrong, no permanent block will be enforced. The IP does not volunteer on WP as an admin and so the disproportionately out of line comments and threats of his should be ignored. --talk 05:19, 26 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Sounds good. We only hide extremely offensive revisions; milder ones stay in the edit history. Thanks again for bringing this to our attention! Cheers, m.o.p 05:31, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
Email
Jasper Deng (talk) 05:29, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
- Reading. talk) 06:00, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Bad Girls Club
- I've blocked Junebea for 2 days for disregarding warnings. m.o.p 20:30, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks for helping :) Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 21:06, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkback
- And again.Griswaldo (talk) 04:24, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
- And again ... but maybe the last. You can settle this question once and for all. See the talk page.Griswaldo (talk) 06:09, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'm sure I'm not alone in wanting to hear your replies to the last responses posed to you at that page. IMO, I don't know why you went down the road you did, but as far as I can tell you're blatantly misrepesenting facts about your own actions when people are brining concerns to you. You might think that since you closed the RfC the matter is settled, but it is not. You're actions have not made my life any more pleasant in the last few days vis-a-vis trying to deal with Anupam's disruption and I think you owe us all answers. So please revisit this thread and deal with the open questions. Thanks.Griswaldo (talk) 02:19, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
- I invite you to stop asking the same question again and again. This would be appreciated. Thanks, m.o.p 02:33, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Block question
- No, I just block obviously bad-faith accounts on sight. Advertising/spam accounts fall under that category. m.o.p 00:37, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Thanks
- Thank you. I've unlocked the article for whatever may come. If I'm needed again, feel free to let me know. Thanks for the kind words again, m.o.p 05:12, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
reminder
- We're still waiting to see if the user understands COI policy (per Ed's question). I'll prod the user and see if they'll answer. talk) 19:20, 30 September 2011 (UTC)]
Nextel logo deleted
- Mmm, good point. What's the link to the logo in question? m.o.p 01:33, 2 October 2011 (UTC)
Support of Sage City SymphonyYou deleted this page before I had a chance to go back in and add the stuff that you wanted to see, including the links within Wikipedia to important composers such as Lou Callabro (who started this orchestra and cites it in his Wikipedia page) and Susan Hurley whose work we premiered (SC is also mentioned in her Wikipedia entry). (Let alone links about the works we have performed.) And we have a web site at www.sagecitysymphony.org, have existed for over 35 yrs and are a significant cultural resource in the Bennington area such that we receive grants from local, statewide and national foundations.
I broke my wrist last weekend and am doing one-handed pecking so it'll take me a few days to get that loaded in. We are going out for a bit now, but I would appreciate your undeleting the page so that I don't have to re-invent the starting part when I go back in tomorrow to add links. Or delete it entirely so that I can start fresh - at this point either would work as long as I can start some serious work on it tomorrow. I am the webmaster by the way, so I do have access to content and more links.
Thank you, Celia Murray — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.228.127.119 (talk) 14:22, 1 October 2011 (UTC)
- It looks like fixed everything up. Best of luck, m.o.p 01:35, 2 October 2011 (UTC)]
Reply on Deterence's talk page
MA
After the beating you took you deserve a cold one--on me! Thanks for being fair and balanced – Lionel (talk) 03:55, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
- Hey, thanks! Glad to help out. :) m.o.p 03:56, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
Deletion of Mau5trap Recordings
--neocharles (talk) 07:33, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Existence does not equal notability - the subject has to be notable to get a Wikipedia page. m.o.p 12:05, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
Questoin re: AIV
- Addendum, actually, I read it very clearly in WP:VANDNOT: "Uploading or using material on Wikipedia in violation of Wikipedia's copyright policies is prohibited, but is not vandalism unless the user does so maliciously or fails to heed warnings." So if a person fails to heed warnings it is vandalism. My mistake here was that I only warned once. --Muhandes (talk) 12:29, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Eh, technically it is vandalism, but the user seems to be trying to improve the Wikipedia - that desire to help is misplaced in this case, as they seem to think that using copyrighted content is actually better. Weird. For most cases, yes, you should report copyvio to AIV - as long as they've been warned sufficiently. m.o.p 12:42, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- OK, he now did it again and the time stamp is after your last warning. Is it vandalism now? --Muhandes (talk) 12:32, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Yeah, if they're outright ignoring warnings. I've blocked for three days. m.o.p 12:40, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
Classmusic
- Oh, I know. But if somebody's lied to my face about using another account - and to other editors working on the article - I'm not about to let them go without a repercussion or two. I'd like Almost-instinct and Voceditnore to look over the article and fix up anything shifty. Also, I'd like Classmusic to respond to my warning, instead of blanking it and ignoring like they have to the above-named editors.
- So, in short, I know that COI doesn't bar editing, but it's enough of a concern that, given the user's recent behaviour, I'll stop them from doing anything until we've figured things out. This isn't too rouge-y, is it? I didn't hear that. Perhaps he is unaware of the sockpuppet investigation findings. Anyhow it seems that DeltaQuad has also blocked the Classmusic account. I left a note on his page about using the unblock template, but re-iterated that he needs to read the COI and Autobiography guidelines and stick to them scrupulously, if he gets unblocked. In the Opera and Classical Music WikiProjects, we get a lot of articles for performers, ensembles, etc. created by their agents and PR people, and often themselves. In my experience, the best I can hope for after one of these tussles is that they'll edit their article according to the guidelines in future. I have yet to find a single one who has ever contributed anything else to Wikipedia. Their only interest in the project is as a PR tool. Having said that, at least it results (after much red-pencilling from other editors) in one new article on a notable subject that we didn't have before and in a small way redresses the pop culture systemic bias here. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 13:40, 5 October 2011 (UTC)]
Danish election
- Never mind, it's been pulled by another admin. All the best, Jenks24 (talk) 11:03, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry about that! I was busy all day and didn't get your message until now. Thanks for letting me know, though! Cheers, m.o.p 19:51, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
3RRHey there! :)
Well WP:CRYSTAL has wined down, however, there's currently a
The Bad Girls Club (season 7). I have notified the two users [32], [33]. The evidence can be found here. They are having an edit-conflict on how the "Duration of cast" should be presented. Since there's no rules regarding anything like that, and it was made up about a year ago, I couldn't warned them to stop their e/c with anything except the 3RR rule. Maybe they need an admin to tell them to stop, so that's why I came to you :) Thanks, Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 01:17, 6 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Temporary page protection requested. Calabe1992 (talk) 01:29, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
userspace
Talkback 16:14, 19 February 2011 (UTC)
Protect my talk page
- Lately, this IP also misused the edit war template on my talk page.Jasper Deng (talk) 00:37, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
Block an IP
E-Mail
nice guyhiii master of puppets,
ok do u know the movie Twilght saga ?
rply me back i want 2 talk 2 u a lot because i like ur pesonalty.BY
talk) 11:58, 28 April 2011 (UTC)]
File source problem with File:MoPuppetarmy.pngThank you for uploading File:MoPuppetarmy.png. I noticed that the file's description page currently doesn't specify who created the content, so the copyright status is unclear. If you did not create this file yourself, you will need to specify the owner of the copyright. If you obtained it from a website, please add a link to the website from which it was taken, together with a brief restatement of that website's terms of use of its content. However, if the copyright holder is a party unaffiliated from the website's publisher, that copyright should also be acknowledged.
If you have uploaded other files, consider verifying that you have specified sources for those files as well. You can find a list of files you have created in your upload log. Unsourced and untagged images may be deleted one week after they have been tagged per Wikipedia's criteria for speedy deletion, F4. If the image is copyrighted and non-free, the image will be deleted 48 hours after 11:44, 11 May 2011 (UTC) per speedy deletion criterion F7. If the file is already gone, you can still make a request for undeletion and ask for a chance to fix the problem. You may wish to read the Wikipedia's image use policy. If you have any questions or are in need of assistance please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. Magog the Ogre (talk) 11:44, 11 May 2011 (UTC)
The Deputy
- Thanks for your reply. My concern was not that Jayjg indicated he would rewrite and did not do so, but that he had agreed to allow more of the disputed section in the article rather than a dismissive sentence or two, but when editors began to delete the entire section based on frivolous reasons, he supported it. It appears now that we have, or are in the process of reaching a resolution. The section is now in the article, reduced substantially to account of Jayjg's concers about undue weight. Mamalujo (talk) 18:40, 27 May 2011 (UTC)
Carla Rushing page deletion
Any further discussion of Sarah Palin will result in a warning, and then a temporary block. Thank you!Hmmm, that might be just a tad excessive. We don't want to suppress all discussion, because that's when the pressure has nowhere to go, and people will go and meatball:ExpandScope.
Since scope is already expanded to international media, forcing scope to expand further might be a bit of a Bad Idea (tm). I recommend Not Going There.
If we're really intent on keeping discussions off of WP, we can always create a wikinews article, and link to the "discuss this article" page.
However, at the moment, people seem to be keeping it down to a dull roar anyway.
--Kim Bruning (talk) 22:44, 6 June 2011 (UTC)
- I think you caught my side point, but I'd like to stress the part I'm trying to tell you to watch out for!
- Long term empirical experience shows that attempts to curtail discussion on wikipedia will not slow down the internet discussion elsewhere (or even on wikipedia). Instead, that's exactly what will feed it more and more steam. So Don't Do That.
- Experience shows that the following approaches work:
- Try to centralize all (spurious) discussion in one place
- keep it as focused on encyclopedic work as possible.
- Treat the new users like new users. They don't know our rules yet. Teach them!
- The foundation would like to see us be more welcoming towards new users. That's a good idea! Let's do that.
- --Kim Bruning (talk) 00:26, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
- And... it went to AN/I (see below) --Kim Bruning (talk) 01:33, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
Edit Notice on Paul RevereYou seem to be asserting some admin right to quench discussion on the talk page by blocking and/or warning with the editnotice that I don't think we have, by policy. IAR doesn't cover stomping on people, no matter how annoying a particular conversation is.
Kelly started a
WP:ANI discussion on this.
Followups probably best on ANI as I am sure others will want to comment. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 01:15, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
- On review - I'm going to blank the edit notice now. If an ANI consensus develops to support restoring it then I'll not object at all, but I think it's novel and enough of a stretch that the default should be "no" unless consensus develops otherwise. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 01:19, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
How does a user find a mentor?
Helen Lucy Burke
Talkback
I did what you asked but the IP reverted it again. PTJoshua (talk) 21:09, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
- You're removing everything I say. Please don't do this. It isn't helpful. --86.45.75.42 (talk) 21:19, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
- I'll talk to them. Sit tight for a second. m.o.p 21:10, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
RE: Deletion of 48gogreen page :ApalejaHello,
Thank you for quick response. I appreciate your reason. but if you do some research you'll find more then 4 or 5 substantial mentions in local or international media - in a newspaper, on a notable website, etc. - to put forward this article.
There is a link on official website of company. http://www.48gogreen.com/static/web
Looking forward for your response. thank you in advance to undelete article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Apaleja (talk • contribs) 08:03, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
Here are some articles from International Press (you can use Google translator-if you use chrome it'll provide option immediately):
http://www.regione.emilia-romagna.it/wcm/cinema/sezioni_primopiano/PrimoPiano/Gadoev.htm
http://domani.arcoiris.tv/girano-un-corto-in-48-ore-e-arrivano-dritti-a-cannes/
http://www.close-up.it/spip.php?article6724
http://www.flashvideo.it/news/9/2578/
http://www.radioemiliaromagna.it/cultura/cinema/videomaker_bolognesi_cannes_corto_ecologico.aspx
Also if YOU HAD READ careful our site you should have see the Press link (those are press links not blogs) with all these web press: http://www.48gogreen.com/static/web
Thank you — Preceding unsigned comment added by Apaleja (talk • contribs) 08:22, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
Final warning On Edit Warring of Efik language disputeIf My Reporting a false article is the reason you want to block me. Then Go ahead and BLOCK me.- I can be Block because I don't care to be part of a web/Encyclopedia of Lies! Although I have contributed anonymously to wikipedia since 2008, I only just signed on a few weeks ago to report an error that I thought was made. But you and your other BIASED administrators have refused to fix this error, instead you're all threatening to block me.
- : According to Wikipedia A false statement/article is removed immediatley it is realized. Yet as am reporting it you all are threatening me for causing disruption.
- You all are saying that I called I called Kwami Slow, Dumb etc. Yet Kwami used the words Ignorance first.
"As for Ukwa, your ignorance is not evidence of anything".
- What is the meaning of IGNORANCE? S/He also said;
"But we cannot have the same article under two names, nor an article on Ibibio-Efik that does not include Ibibio, nor an article on Efik that does not include Efik. A little common sense would be helpful."
- What is meaning of Common sense? Or because Kwami put it very nicely, and mine wasn't? Also I wasn't blanking the Efik page, since I just signed on it takes me a long while to write up an article. According to the statements above, Kwami said I could develop articles on Efik and Ibibio, that is what I was doing when you or your other BIASED administrators returned the articles back to the re-direct.
- : Since wikipedia says a false statement is fixed immediately it is reported, I explained out the mistakes, but Kwami kept insisting that me a native who speaks these languages was wrong and asked for sources. I provided the sources and Kwami Called A brilliant Historian who is a Million times more knowledgable than Kwami on the language;
"utterly ignorant AND not some random idiot who posted a web page".
- Yet you and your other Biased colleges are claiming that am the one attacking Kwami and causing a disruption.
- : Am done with Wikipedia, am going to be taking this issues to the Founder/head by email, once the Ibibio union are involved it might become a legal matter if Wikipedia still continues to portray this misleading information.
I will take this matter to the heads by Email first because they might not be aware of what you all supposed administrators are doing to their image. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ibibiogrl (talk • contribs) 21:41, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
Hi Mops,
Pls read my comments on the ANI page. I think Ibibiogrl means well, she just needs some guidance, and she's not willing to take it from me. — kwami (talk) 22:17, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
- Obviously we would like to have contributors from that part of the world, but Ibibiogrl's record here is so unpromising that I think we need good assurances that something will change in the future. (I would welcome any evidence that Ibibiogrl means well. It is hard to improve the encyclopedia when you have no interest in or respect for its policies. Read her statement above if you are uncertain about that). Mentorship has value only for someone who understands that something has gone wrong and would be willing to work with a mentor. EdJohnston (talk) 22:46, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
- I agree with Ed in this case - I have no grudge against Ibibiogrl, but the editor's attitude, despite multiple pleas for otherwise, remained combative and even insulting at points. If there's a serious expression of guilt and the editor decides they'd like to walk a different path, I'd be happy to help. However, as it is now, I believe the block should stand. m.o.p 22:52, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
- I agree that it would require some indication that she wants help. Just my 2¢ as the person she's most upset with. — kwami (talk) 23:05, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
- For the record, your input is highly appreciated, and very admirable; as the editor in conflict with her, I respect your neutrality and helpfulness. As for Ibibiogrl, we'll see where that goes. Cheers! m.o.p 00:59, 17 June 2011 (UTC)
Can you adopt me i want a new adopter.
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Mr. Pit (2nd nomination)
This isn't personalI belive the AFD on Campaign for "santorum" neologism was closed way to early and am contesting your close.
An editor has asked for a deletion review of Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2011 June 21. Because you closed the deletion discussion for this page, speedily deleted it, or otherwise were interested in the page, you might want to participate in the deletion review. KoshVorlon' Naluboutes Aeria Gloris 12:17, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
James Ball
Thank you for your concern. But I will not be blocked - _I am adding_ wikipedia to adblock. I also feel regret for having donated to the site before, but this will not happen again. Demonuminon (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 23:25, 23 June 2011 (UTC).
Thomas James BallWhy the hell did you delete his page?
Does his suffering mean nothing to you?
Heartless bitch. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.57.206.141 (talk • contribs)
Hey, Master of Puppets, OBVIOUSLY there is a public interested in keeping this article. Restore your deletion. Look at the massive flood of comments regarding your deletion here: http://www.<linkremoved>.com/2011/06/24/the-organized-silencing-of-a-man-publicly-burned-to-death/ and here http://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/i81rw/the_organized_silencing_of_a_man_publicly_burned/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Romerom (talk • contribs) 20:05, 24 June 2011 (UTC)
- Ball HIT A FOUR-YEAR-OLD CHILD, refused to pay child support, called for insurrection, demanded terrorism and violence as a solution, ultimately killed himself (leaving his children without a father) and damaged public property in the process. Even after all that, his incoherent message has mostly been ignored except by the less discriminating people claiming to speak for "men's rights" who haven't bothered to look into the details of his case. (If you really want to damage your cause, adopt a grown man who hits his own four-year-old child and flakes out on his child support as your poster boy.) --Orange Mike | Talk 20:26, 24 June 2011 (UTC) (proud father who has never hit his child in his lifetime)
Hey, "proud father who never hit his child in his lifetime", not everybody is against disciplining their children by spanking. He said his daughter was licking his hand, and he had told her repeatedly to stop. She didn't, and he smacked her. He didn't punch her, or send her to the hospital, or cause any serious injury. Just enough to have his wife baited into calling the police on him by child protective services. As for child support, he paid his child support until the point where he wasn't able to afford it due to an employment issue. Is that such a crazy thing to have happen? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.211.155.1 (talk) 04:28, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
- Again, while I do sympathize with the family and supporters, I am not taking sides, nor do I have any bias in this situation. I am not a feminist, nor am I a misogynist - I am fair and neutral towards all people, whether they be abusive fathers or abused fathers.
- This deletion was enforced solely in keeping with Wikipedia's long-established policies. Mr. Ball's death, while indeed tragic, was not reported throughout the reliable media enough to show his notability.
- I hope this makes sense to all those saddened by Mr. Ball's passing. Cheers, m.o.p 21:04, 24 June 2011 (UTC)
- I understand that you do not think that Mr. Ball's death is something that qualifies as an event and thus deleted said article. I disagree but I do see the merits of your argument. However, you claim to be unbiased in this debate and yet for someone who judges on the letter of the law you break the law and close debate 2.5 days before final judgment is to be rendered. If you have no corner then I ask why make this article a special case that it must be quelled , by your own admission, 2.5 days before any other articles found in similar circumstances are voted upon. I petition you to reinstate and allow the normal course of the discussion continue for the 2.5 days, allow the full opportunity for the pro side to make their case then recluse yourself from the final judgment. This is the only way to ensure transparency so that your claim of neutrality can be believed. CaffOMHW (talk) 03:28, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
- Ahead of things, let me tell you that I appreciate the civility.
- Wikipedia's policies aren't law - they're guidelines. As an administrator, it's my job to apply policy in a way that is completely devoid of bias and benefits the encyclopedia as a whole.
- On a side note, the deletion nomination was closed 1.5 days before the normal time. The page had a whole work week to be saved, rewritten or reworked; however, due to the lack of outside sourcing that carried reliability, there was nothing to keep that wasn't editorialized or unencyclopedic. I would also like to point out that almost every account that voiced their opinion in the 'keep' spectrum had either only edited that page or had edited very little aside from the page. Meanwhile, the deletion argument was put forward by experienced users.
- Though I understand that some people take offense to my early closure, I assure them that one extra day would not have yielded success, and that I took many factors into consideration before closing the discussion.
- Again, thank you for the civility, but I won't be overturning judgment or recreating a deletion discussion at this date. m.o.p 08:17, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
ITNthx for the 2 quick updates of my nom ;)
but also can you see the bolivia one. its got support and very nearly out of the news. we could tack it nearer the border.Lihaas (talk) 22:26, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
Ball closure.
Thank God you are an ambassador for WP, and against censorship, MoP. When Wikipedia fails, and it eventually will, it will largely be because most people don't like to be gamed and would rather not read well cultivated information that is maintained by dishonest brokers who hide behind rules that are never applied in an even-handed manner. The idea that a story is not relevant merely because it is not yet encyclopedic is ridiculous when one sees all the articles which linger on for months or years in the same state. The idea that a story is not relevant because the motivations/justifications of the user are suspect would be grounds for eliminating half the biographical articles in WP. It smacks of an agenda. The appearance of impropriety is as bad as actual impropriety.173.78.20.96 (talk) 04:51, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
- I appreciate the feedback.
- I do my best to maintain an equal, proportionate response in all dealings on Wikipedia; I don't defend things I like, or attack things I dislike, just for the reason of screwing with people. That strikes me as childish. Instead, the most I can do is try to help others understand Wikipedia policies, which are generally mind-bending and hard to grasp (for example, most people ask, "What's the reasoning a war hero isn't considered notable when Donkey Kong is?").
- Maybe one day the policies will change. I mean, most of these were written five, six year ago - the world's changing, and I expect they will with time. But, for now, the guidelines handle what comes in.
- Again, thanks for the input. I appreciate not being personally attacked - it makes it easier to reply. Cheers, m.o.p 05:08, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Natami (2nd nomination)
- The close was thoroughly thought-out, so there's not much ground for me to explore that I haven't already. If you're set on going to DRV, there's nothing I can say which will change your mind, and it's your right to ask for a review. However, current consensus sits at delete (unless the 'keep' side is hiding an ace-in-the-hole reliable source or something). Cheers, m.o.p 04:55, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- So, what about the reliable sources we already brought up in the AfD such as this interview in Amiga Future or this news article from nr2.ru? We've already established that Amiga Future isn't sponsored by a hardware company as one !voter there falsely claimed. On a related note, did you discount the !votes from individuals making misleading statements or those claiming there were "no independent reliable sources"? (I could tell you how that !voter happened to show up there, but he isn't going to like it.) I could also link to forum posts by another delete !voter who showed up there who was very much into a "delete at any cost" mode because he doesn't like "amiga clones". --Tothwolf (talk) 05:11, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- Those sources were there before the previous close, and I, like the previous administrator, do not think they're strong enough.
- I've already covered what kind of rationale was discounted and what wasn't.
- As for your last statement about other editors - I'm not quite sure what your point is, but I don't think it's relevant. As I said, I've discounted any rationale that does not apply policy.
- Cheers, m.o.p 05:33, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- Uh, no...nr2.ru was only brought up in the second AfD. Strong enough is also an argument to be made in a !vote, not a closing statement. --Tothwolf (talk) 05:56, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- My apologies, the Russian source was indeed added after the first AfD. Still too shaky for a stand-alone article, though. Cheers, m.o.p 13:42, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- To follow up on my earlier comment, while I don't really want to get into an "X did this because of Y" sort of thing with regards to this AfD, there were a number of delete !voters who showed up there for personal reasons/vendettas/bias and/or who made false statements about sources. Despite the template at the top of the AfD, the second AfD also didn't suffer from the forum canvassing that the first did. One of the delete !voters actually came by way of the forum and first AfD and was trolling because of his personal dislike of Amiga clones. --Tothwolf (talk) 15:33, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
If they have valid, policy-based rationale, their personal motivation doesn't matter, solely for the reason that an encyclopedia based on liking or disliking things would crumble instantly. I'm sure some of the deletion crew could just-as-easily blame keep voters for being enthusiasts and fans of Natami - but that's not important. As a result, making allegations of personal bias is unnecessary. The help is appreciated, but there's nothing I can do with the information. m.o.p 15:39, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- It matters when someone makes false statements and tries to hide what they are doing behind policy. As for keeps, quite a number appear to be from well established editors who don't appear to be all that interested in Amiga topics. As for myself, I wasn't even aware of NatAmi until the first AfD and didn't even !vote in the first AfD since I thought it was pretty obvious it was headed for a no-consensus close. --Tothwolf (talk) 15:58, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- Again, if their rationale is grounded in policy, their motivation does not matter, simply because it's impossible to discern someone's intent through text, and because the second someone accuses another of favoritism/malicious intent the entire argument turns into a bunch of people shouting, "You're lying." That's why there's nothing I can do with your information in this case. Cheers, m.o.p 16:02, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- Apologies to you, M.O.P., for addressing another editor on your talk page, but I just wanted to jump in this conversation. Tothwolf, with no prejudice against you at all I strongly suggest you take this in perspective. There have been two AFDs and an ANI report over this article. The way you treated me on my talk page threatening DRV because I was a new administrator was, as I feel it, borderline harassing. That you canvassed two other administrators to talk to me was also a below the belt move. In good faith, I relisted the debate and it has closed again as delete. I strongly suggest taking the advice at WP:DGAF into account here and let the issue go. I don't think there will be a problem recreating this article, even pulling the old content back from the deletion log, when the subject has better sources in a broader community. I hold no ill feeling toward you, this is purely honest advice.--v/r - TP 16:46, 27 June 2011 (UTC)]
- TParis, while you are correct in that this talk page is not the place for this, because you brought this up here and you seem to value honest feedback, I'll address this here.
In no way did I ever threaten you with DRV, let alone because you were a new administrator (discussion in question). I did however upon noticing that you had passed RFA only days earlier decide it best not to press you further in public and instead sent you this short email: "Sigh. I just noticed you just finished your RFA. The Natami AfD was a bad AfD to pick to close right out of the gate. It is likely to end up at DRV and given the magazine I mentioned, overturned. I really wish you would reconsider your close. You might have noticed I didn't even !vote in the AfD itself, however I did point out a number of things and took a couple of people to task for making false or misleading statements." That is the only email I sent you about the matter and not once did I ever threaten you with DRV. Please get your facts correct before making statements such as this because such mistakes can have a negative effect on others.
After you replied expressing your disagreement over the sources (and implied that I might be biased because I sometimes contribute to computing-related articles) I asked a number of other administrators (way more than two, actually) what they thought of the AfD's close because I wanted unbiased feedback to see if I was somehow totally off-track before I initiated a DRV. The feedback I got was fairly unanimous in that the close was problematic. Before I had a chance to draft a DRV however, you reverted your own close and relisted the AfD from scratch with a new listing. In no way did I ever "canvass" anyone to "talk to you" and if others did contact you directly, they did so at their own discretion and for their own reasons.
There indeed have been two AfDs, the first of which you closed (although one could also argue that the second was merely a relist of the first). The AN/I "discussion" you also mentioned wasn't really over this article or the first AfD, it was an attempt by someone to game AN/I when they were unable to bully me on their talk page. Please be more careful making these sort of blanket statements in the future because as I mentioned above such statements can cause problems for others. --Tothwolf (talk) 17:38, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- You're email was exactly like your reply here. You like to make threats without actually making them: "such statements can cause problems". There is very little way your email cannot be interpreted as anything other than a threat of DRV because I am a new administrator. This is all I'll say on M.O.P.'s talk page as I came here to offer honest advice and you don't seem interested in it. If you'd like to discuss further with me, you know where to find my talk page.--v/r - TP 17:51, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- TParis, in no way did I ever make an implied threat. While I may be a little blunt and abrasive at times (or maybe I'm just an assume good faith in that you simply misremembered the facts I outlined above when you made this statement here. It is easy to forget a few details here or there and not everyone maintains detailed notes for this sort of stuff (I do, for a number of reasons, although I didn't always).
As far as honest advice goes, this is a two-way street and I gave you my opinion as well. If you choose to ignore and discount it, so be it, but I'd suggest you be much more careful in the future and get your facts correct before you make the sort of statement you made above. Such statements can and do cause problems for other editors. Who knows, it may just be that you've not been around long enough yet to have witnessed people blocked or punished in some way because someone else didn't have their facts together. (If you do decide you want to continue this discussion, perhaps we should take this elsewhere.) --Tothwolf (talk) 18:14, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
]
Heaton Park Hebrew Congregation (2nd nomination)
Natami
Thought you might want to know
- (talk page stalker) That's just the same little ideological website which has been pushing for the "Martyrdom of St. Thomas Ball" attention since day one; no actual new coverage. --Orange Mike | Talk 14:34, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
- I guess I should also mention that the way I found it, was that someone tried submitting it to Fark.com last night. The admins did not greenlight it, so that particular submission/thread did not go to the main Fark page, appearing only to those with Totalfark accounts. The submission said something like "Wikipedia deletes burning man" (I'm not at a computer with TF access so I might not have that exactly right). It might, theoretically, based on the submission, be considered some sort of off-site canvassing (it was submitted with the asinine tag). For what its worth, the thread went uncommented, so I don't think that particular attempt garnered any support. I just wanted to drop a line in case that this was just the first drop of a large storm. If I see anything else, I'll drop a line here. Umbralcorax (talk) 15:58, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
Wiki ad
4chan raid
Thomas James Bell, new information
- (reliable sources. --Orange Mike | Talk 13:33, 30 June 2011 (UTC)]
Happy Birthday
![](//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3d/Nuvola_apps_cookie.svg/50px-Nuvola_apps_cookie.svg.png)
Just a happy Birthday message to you, Master of Puppets, from the Wikipedia Birthday Committee! Have a great day!
Monterey Bay (talk) 02:00, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
User:BillyMoses
Natami
AFD
- Your input is appreciated, though there's nothing I can do with it but take a note. If you'd like, you can weigh in at the next AfD(s), when/if they arise. Cheers, m.o.p 19:42, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
Dr Myko San – Health from Mushrooms
- I'd be happy to help! However, I'm currently away from a computer (typing this on my phone), so I'll have to check in on the 11th of July. Does that sound okay? m.o.p 15:40, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
- wp:NODEADLINE :-) LeadSongDog come howl! 15:48, 7 July 2011 (UTC)]
From a former Wikipedian
-71.234.90.0 (talk) 04:50, 8 July 2011 (UTC)
- Hey, thanks so much! I'm not sure who you are, but I really appreciate the sentiment. Hope all is well! m.o.p 20:49, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
Deletion review for Thomas James Ball
DRV comment
DRV
Could you please overturn the deletion of these files per File:Signature of Amitabh Bachchan.svg and File:Signature of Zakir Hussain.svg:
- File:Signature of Vishwanathan Anand.svg
- File:Signature of Vijay Mallya.svg
- File:Signature of Venkaiah Naidu.svg
- File:Signature of Sudeep Bandhopadhyay.svg
- File:Signature of Sonia Gandhi.svg
- File:Signature of Somnath Chatterjee.svg
- File:Signature of Ratan Tata.svg
- File:Signature of Kumar Mangalam Birla.svg
- File:Signature of Rajeev Shukla.svg
- File:Signature of Raj Babbar.svg
- File:Signature of Rahul Gandhi.svg
- File:Signature of Priyanka Vadra.svg
- File:Signature of P. T. Usha.svg
- File:Signature of Narendra Modi.svg
- File:Signature of Nandan Nilekani.svg
- File:Signature of Manish Tewari.svg
- File:Signature of Leander Paes.svg
- File:Signature of Lata Mangeshkar.svg
- File:Signature of Kumar Mangalam Birla.svg
- File:Signature of Karia Munda.svg
- File:Signature of Kapil Sibal.svg
- File:Signature of Kamal Nath.svg
- File:Signature of K. Kamraj.svg
- File:Signature of Jaya Bachchan.svg
- File:Signature of Gautam Gambhir.svg
- File:Signature of Brinda Karat.svg
- File:Signature of Bharatsinh Solanki.svg
- File:Signature of Bhairon Singh Shekhawat.svg
- File:Signature of B. K. Birla.svg
- File:Signature of Azim Premji.svg
- File:Signature of Arun Jaitely.svg
- File:Signature of Aishwarya Rai Bachchan.svg
- File:Signature of Abhishek Manu Singhvi.svg
- File:Signature of Abhishek Bachchan.svg
- File:Signature of Sting.svg
- File:Signature of Br. L. D. Lobo.svg
- File:Signature of VJ Rannvijay Singh Singha.svg
Diligent07Appears to be less than new. See User talk:Raoulduke25 where he states that this is a deliberate series of edits.
- Can you please help defend our collective effort of including the obscene middle-finger incident in the Cheney Mason article? It should be maintained in the article for public interest, etc. Please see the Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard#Cheney Mason discussion page and include your thoughts in favor of having the content remain in the interests of the public, etc
[8], [9] and even imputation that an editor has a connection with the person [10]. He has been on since April, and started off as being experienced on WP IMHO. Kindly keep an eye out please. Especially for any sign of a real "collective effort"? Such as [11]? Cheers. Collect (talk) 11:36, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
A cookie for you!
Keep up the good work defending the "Wiki" against genre warriors. Thanks for the help! talk) 17:31, 13 July 2011 (UTC)]
Hello. You have a new message at Lionelt's talk page.
Semi protection
OK, this thing with the militant atheism page is impossibleThese guys are incredible... I could dig up diffs to show you how they revert and wikilawyer even the SMALLEST attempt to move the article closer to NPOV. But that would take a long time for you to read. How about I show you this instead:
These guys are utterly without scruples. Who in their right mind would remove the NPOV dispute tag when heated arguments have been raging for weeks and NO moves whatsoever have been made to fix the article? Oh right, that would be someone in their right mind who is running a propaganda platform.
Anyway... I wanted to ask your advice on what to do. These guys are impossible to work with. Most of the other editors have given up and refuse to put this page on their watchlist. So what to do then? Request formal mediation? Articles for deletion? Something else?
Me and the other editors would like to see the page replaced with a disambiguation page... since literally ALL the content has already been covered (better) in Criticism of atheism, State atheism and New Atheism.
Obhave (talk) 13:21, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
- Hello User:Master of Puppets. I noticed this conversation and thought I might add that an NPOV policy. Obhave (talk) 13:11, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
- One more thing, m.o.p... my opponents are currently twisting your words to make it look as if you were scolding user:Mann_jess all along. Obhave (talk) 14:42, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
]
User:Jasper Deng page protection
- No worries! m.o.p 19:35, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
Is there a procedure for brutal uncollaborated editing with a destructive intent?I noticed that you recently had problems with proposed brutal editing by Peter S Strempel. Although he has been more sensible on your project in the end (possibly because of your administrator status?) he has not been so with regard to the astrology project pages to which he made a similar 'razor-promise'. Could you please see this Afd request which is one of three he made for major 'history of astrology' articles within the last hour, with a promise on another important page that any comment which is not refrences within 7 days will be removed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Babylonian_astrology
Is there anything that can be done about this officially to stop him wreaking havoc with content whilst he knows that the small group of editors providing content on these pages are already stretched to the limit trying to keep up with what needs to be done? I don't understand what drives some people to want to edit WP like this, but I think it is entriely the result of his ego-stress that when he proposed an edit for a passage, no one favoured it. Hope you can help or advise Zac Δ talk 01:15, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks! assume good faith; I believe that Peter is simply trying to help improve Wikipedia. While his methods may be lacking in some areas, he has displayed a pretty decent grasp on the policies he's trying to enforce.
- However, I agree that he shouldn't be making any changes if they're not discussed with the community first. Do you mind pulling up a few diffs of where he went against consensus? I'll approach him with your concern then. Thanks, m.o.p 03:57, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
- Actually there hasn't been any significant content dispute with Peter. He proposed a change to a section edit which wasn't a very good proposition and a few editors commented but without rancur, and I added a new section post immediately afterwards to point out the proiposed change would contradict with how the definition was given correctly at a later point in the article, outlining how I understood WP policy expected the main astrology article to pull its own content together, along with its summarised content from its daughter pages. Peter never responded to this but other editors started working in that direction immediately. Then, without further discussion or comment, Peter came back four days later to announce an intention to take his 'word razor' to all unreferenced assertions on the main astrology page, its sub-pages, and the portal page itself, to ensure his perceived disagreement was not circumvented in pages he viewed as content forks (I'm still not sure what he means by that). My response to that can be seen - a perfectly reasonable request for him to do what he felt was most productive, but consider that citation-tagging was the way to go. I also placed comments on his talk-page, which you can read if you are interested. That he erupted into a frenzy of AfD requests last night says something, I think, about his unwillingness to discuss and engage in other views. Most of his posts appear as new section declarations that don't appear to have considered the responses other editors give him.
- I've summarised this in the ANI request Dougweller started. The deletion requests were a step too far IMO, and I'm concerned that Peter would spring to such drastic measures in reaction to what he perceives to be me not allowing him to do what he wants to do. I'll be away for a few days so I'm tying up my WP activity now. That underlines my concern that he intends to take such drastic action with only one week's notice of intent. Thanks for looking into this. It would be good if something could be proposed to stop huge problems before they occur. 10:35, 22 July 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zachariel (talk • contribs
)
- One last request. I have just noticed that a related complaint, which is quite serious but has been sidetracked (deliberatly IMO) by Peter's suggestions that I have prevented him from doing what he wants, has been collapsed as "going nowehere" by an unsympathetic editor.
- "Its ben here several days and no admin has even sniffed at a block or ban - clearly you're not going to get admin action. So this should got to WP:DR or WP:RFCU if you want to take it further. I've boldly collapsed this, though I won't be surprised if someone uncollapses it"
- If you can find the time could you at least take a look at that related problem, and consider uncollapsing it, because the issues are serious and have gone beyond the point where Dispute resolution are appropriate. I will be away and have nothing more to add, but the problems identified still remain. Zac Δ talk 10:58, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
What to do?
- I've started a threat at ANI. Those AfDs are purely pointy and if no one objects I'll close them. talk) 06:11, 22 July 2011 (UTC)]
- Replied there. m.o.p 08:20, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
Talk Page on Militant Atheism - Introduction Section
- The update is appreciated, thanks very much. I've been dealing with life for the past two weeks, but I'll be back to close that discussion tonight or tomorrow. Thanks again, m.o.p 22:03, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
- Just bringing this up again, given the current state of this section. I believe the discussion will be archived automatically if not closed. I'm sorry if I sound pushy with you having a lot on your plate of late. If you would prefer, I could alert User:Fastily instead. Turnsalso (talk) 16:55, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
ITN
- I knew that tab I closed had unfinished business on it... thanks. 2008 University of Central Arkansas shootings is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.
The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2008 University of Central Arkansas shootings(2nd nomination) until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on good quality evidence, and our policies and guidelines.
Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article.
talk 14:00, 1 September 2011 (UTC)]
Hey
- Done! Both your userpage and the transcluded page are protected. Cheers, « ₣M₣ » 04:09, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Restored. m.o.p 05:21, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
]
User talk:Joshua the Independent
- My mistake - my block script auto-filled the edit summary. The block was issued due to the user's newfound will to disrupt Wikipedia intentionally. Their previous contributions are welcome, but this behaviour necessitates administrative action. m.o.p 21:52, 13 September 2011 (UTC)
Say hi to your imaginary girlfriend for me
- Well, I do love getting hate mail. Thanks for the laugh! Cheers, m.o.p 05:17, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
...further to the above lovely note, I weighed in on Calabe's talk page - there appears to be more confusion here than at first glance. bou·le·var·dier (talk) 05:19, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
Sorry to drop by again, but Silentsizzlingsausage (talk · contribs) would appear to be a duck. bou·le·var·dier (talk) 05:31, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
- No, it's not an issue! Thanks for the note, blocked. Cheers, WP:SPI. Thanks again, m.o.p 06:13, 14 September 2011 (UTC)]
I have to admit ...
- See the above section. The link is apparently a very subtle spam link that Calabe is removing, and socks are springing up to revert him. Swarm u / t 10:20, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
Moderation
- Alright, I'll make my way back. Thanks for letting me know! m.o.p 05:18, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
User:12.139.96.228
- To be honest, this case is perplexing. Half of this user's edits are constructive (mostly sourced), the other half aren't sourced - and the user won't reply to anybody. I'm also too busy to go through every edit and confirm whether or not it's good. I forgot about this for a while - I'll think about it tonight and figure something out for tomorrow. Thanks for reminding me! m.o.p 05:18, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
Whoops
- Whoops! Must not have been looking when I ran my block script. Thanks for letting me know, I've reblocked them for a far shorter (technically, an infinitely shorter) time. Cheers, m.o.p 22:58, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
Ashleyleggat404
- You're fully right in that the blanking policy covers indefinite blocks. I've removed the user's talk page rights as a result. Thanks again! m.o.p 00:28, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkback
Moderation
- If you look into this please consider whether Anupam's actions on the talk page and the entry itself are violations of WP:OWN. He's been driving off those he disagrees with by bludgening them to death with argument and heavily policing the entry claiming that there is a consensus written in stone despite many dissenting voices. Others have taken to simply calling him "the article's owner." I have had enough of this behavior personally and left him a message about it on his talk page. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:52, 20 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Dear User:Master of Puppets, the above user has misrepresented the occurrences at the article. I started another Introduction discussion at the article's talk page but User:Griswaldo has chosen to edit war over a second NPOV tag, despite the fact that one already exists in the article. He has done so despite the fact that the Introduction is being discussed in a peaceful manner at the talk page, in violation of your injunction: "We've only got consensus on this proposed versions (and loose consensus at that) - please do not attempt to subvert said consensus by making undiscussed changes." I have posted a message on his talk page about this behaviour. Nevertheless, I also do not wish to argue with the user personally and would prefer if you could go back to moderating the discussion between the two parties at the talk page. Thanks for taking the time to read this message. With regards, AnupamTalk 20:58, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- His "injunction?" Adding a neutrality tag to a specific sentence which an editor disputes the neutrality of is hardly "subverting the consensus by making undiscussed changes." Please stop wikilawyering to get your way. There is a growing consensus against your position regarding this article in general as well, despite your aggressive policing of the entry and the talk page. See ]
- I just thought that I would mention that User:Griswaldo, after seeing this message, just now decided to comment in the discussion rather than edit war against consensus further. Thanks for taking the time to read this message. With regards, AnupamTalk 21:51, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- "Edit war against consensus further?" My comment there has nothing to do with your message here. I've made three total edits to this entry ever. One was a copy edit in June, another was reverting an IP vandal, and the third was the revert of your Ownership edit. Please do not insinuate that I'm a edit warrior on this page. It is disingenuous.Griswaldo (talk) 22:08, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Thank you all for approaching me with your concerns.
- Obviously, I do not support Anupam - this is because I'm remaining a neutral third party, and, therefore, can't take sides. However, Griswaldo: please keep in mind that I did ask for all discussion to take place on the talk page. Why not just add your complaints to the talk page? It would have been much easier to discuss.
- I do agree that adding a NPOV tag, while slightly redundant, isn't horrible, but your intent seems to have been to stir discussion on that particular section, discussion that would be much more appropriate on the talk page.
- As for your and Snalwibma's concerns of Anupam trying to 'own' the article, I'm curious as to what you two mean; what 'delusions'?
- Also, Griswaldo, I don't think Anupam meant to insinuate you are an edit warrior (though this is just my take) - rather, they wanted to add the note that you've weighed in on discussion. m.o.p 22:10, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- your intent seems to have been to stir discussion on that particular section - No that's incorrect. I didn't add this tag, I simply reverted Anupam's attempt to own the page when he removed it. I agreed with JimWae's addition of the tag and found Anupam's removal to be unwarranted and a display of ownership.Griswaldo (talk) 22:16, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Note that, for all intents and purposes, reverting somebody is adding whatever is included in your edit, regardless of who put it there first. You revert a removal, you're agreeing with the edition you're reverting to - simple.
- And, if you agreed with JimWae, then we go back to what I was saying earlier - say so on the talk page. Two of you agree? Great! That's closer to consensus. But it means nothing if you express your support by reverting removals.
- Again, as I've asked multiple times, please stop saying that Anupam is owning anything without giving me evidence of it first. m.o.p 22:22, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Dear User:Master of Puppets, thank you for your reply to all of us. The reason User:Snalwibma stated that I was attempting to "own" the article was because I reverted an undiscussed removal from the article, which not only myself, but two other users objected to. In fact, two anonymous IP Addresses also reverted User:Snalwibma. I was open to compromise on the issue and stated that I would accept User:Turnsalso's compromise on the issue. I kindly request you to look at that discussion yourself and get an honest reading of it. Also, the only reason I removed the second NPOV tag was because there was already one present, which I did not remove. I only reverted the addition of a second NPOV tag once and even explained myself on the talk page. When I went to the talk page, I found rude accusations and an anti-collaborative spirit, despite the fact that I have been nothing but polite. I hope this helps. With regards, AnupamTalk 22:25, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry - I know I should not rise to the bait, but I have to object to the comment "The reason User:Snalwibma stated that I was attempting to 'own' the article was because I reverted an undiscussed removal ..." How dare Anupam presume to know what is in my mind! The reason I describe Anupam's attitude to the article as one of ownership is because that is how s/he behaves - "policing" every edit, pronouncing on whether s/he "accepts" or "rejects" it, peremptorily reverting anything s/he does not like, without discussion, presuming to know others' motives, and judging them as fit/unfit to contribute to the article. This has been going on for weeks, if not months. It is impossible to discuss the content of the article, let alone improve the text, because everything is filtered through the approval/disapproval of the article's self-appointed guardian, Anupam. tendentious or disruptive when they bring up certain issues, even when they are clearly in the majority. That is not collaborative. I stopped editing the article heavily because of those issues. I don't have any delusions that my opinion is worth more than anyone else's here, but I would think that the large number of established, experienced editors who are all saying there's a problem, would indicate something. — Jess· Δ♥ 19:45, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
Please reconsider your full protection of Militant atheist
- In case you didn't notice, I asked that people think twice about pointing fingers at each other. If you'd like to start a sockpuppetry investigation, let me know, and we can take that avenue - however, don't accuse other editors of ownership without substance. If you think Anupam is trying to own things, give me something. Diffs, edits, anything. I'll check it out for you, but right now, baseless accusations are not what I'm looking for.
- Also, notice that I protected the article with your edit being the last one. How is that validating the very person you've been reverting?
- The protection will stay until consensus is reached. m.o.p 22:19, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Because protection is what he wants quite clearly. He's stalling conversation and shouting down people on the talk page, where, if you have a look, you'll see he's clearly in the minority. Because of your "injunction" as he calls it, he also claims that no matter how many people agree with a certain change it is illegitimate. I'll be happy to gather some diffs, but my first message to you above was to please look into the situation carefully before acting on it. Did you do that and come to the conclusion that I'm wrong or did you not head that request? Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:29, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Yes, I did heed your request. I don't see any ownership behaviour from Anupam, though, being involved in multiple disputes, I didn't have the time to read every last word on the page, so you're free to provide evidence. However, from what I can see, Anupam's last proposal was supported by the majority - not to count (and I don't mean to imply that I decide where consensus lies by looking at pure numbers), but from looking at pure supports versus opposes, eight people (nine including Anupam) support while four oppose. How does that make Anupam's views a minority? m.o.p 22:37, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- It depends on what view you are talking about. The current RFC on the introduction is something that most people don't even want to engage because most people think this very entry should be split up and integrated into other entries. I reluctantly engaged the RfC just now myself. The last time the more serious question about the entry was asked, several of the new commentators were not around, and there was "no consensus" found because the opposing side was chalk full of SPAs and editors with a view that is outright hostile to atheism (which is a legitimate view to hold, but it is a minority view). Let me find you some diffs.Griswaldo (talk) 22:43, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- User:Griswaldo, that is exactly the issue: you do not want to collaborate with other users on the talk page, which is why you were reluctant to participate in the current RfC. Moreover, there were several SPA's on the side of the opposition as well, including WP:NPOV. In addition, the split was again recently discussed and the specific case to do so was refuted by several editors. As such, there was no consensus for it. I hope this helps. With regards, AnupamTalk 22:52, 20 September 2011 (UTC)]
- No. You are trying to write an article that violates WP:SYNTH because it conflates New Atheism with oppressive communist regimes and their histories of violence. That's hardly NPOV. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:59, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
Hi m.o.p., as someone who occasionally looks at that page (and then washes my hands), I just want to compliment you as having done the right thing in full protecting. By way of unsolicited advice to the involved editors, the best thing they could do is to allow The Wrong Version to sit there a good long time, and devote their energy to other things. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:54, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
]
Yes, please reconsider your full protection of
WP:RS—deserve protection against misinformed reverts. Thanks Geremia (talk) 16:12, 22 September 2011 (UTC)]
Diffs of
- I'm not really sure where the ownership is here; nowhere in our policies is it stated that a user can't promote their RFC on the subject talk page. If it's ongoing and they'd like to move it to the forefront, what's wrong with that? More so, some of your summaries seem inaccurate - in that last diff, you state that Anupam is removing images, yet I only see Anupam adding an image (the peace dove that's at the top of the page). Also, you use repeating examples. m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Well clearly the last diff was wrong. Thanks for the vote of confidence. There are no repeat examples nor inaccurate summaries, just a mistaken copy paste of the second to last diff to the last position as well. I have fixed it. Cheers.
- Using "consensus claims from one RfC to reject changes made to article content
- Same as above. Using the "consensus" bludgeon to get his way. Please note that clearly we ought to edit by consensus, but this consensus is highly disputed, and IMO not there in the first place. The real problem is the way in which Anupam decides to use it like a trump card to remove changes he doesn't like. Ask yourself if all changes post "consensus" have been removed or just the ones Anupam decided he wanted removed.
Master of Puppets do you need more diffs or is this enough?Griswaldo (talk) 23:31, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Well I need more diffs because your "evidence" so far looks like a desperate attempt to incriminate an editor who has been very successful in persuading his colleagues to adopt his proposals. Anupam has presented his proposals, argued the merits and persuaded many editors. Anything you want to tell us about why you're having difficulty doing likewise? – Lionel (talk) 06:02, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- I don't see this is as conclusive evidence, either. And, it should be said - if people are editing against established consensus, then people are free to re-evaluate consensus, but edit-warring against it doesn't make much sense. m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- If not ownership then what is this - [28], [29], [30]? He removes two RfCs started by another editor, and revolving around the question that many of us actually find to be the fundamental question to answer regarding the entry. Then he edit wars to keep these RfCs off the page, claiming again to have some sort of authority stemming from your prior actions. If you aren't willing to do something here I'm going to another administrator and I'm going to ask for your initial "consensus," your strong arm administrating, and your lack of action here to be reviewed as well. Thanks.Griswaldo (talk) 17:08, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Anupam has already apologized for reverting those RfC additions, and we've moved past it. He also didn't claim to have administrative authority, but was waiting for my approval. We've cleared this up, it's not an issue. So no, I'm not going to take any action (as I've said here and on ANI). Now, if you'd like to threaten me and tell me that, since I'm not cooperating with your wills, you'll go to another administrator, that's fine - as I've said, you can seek outside opinions - but remember to keep a cool head, because borderline threats are not appreciated. m.o.p 21:49, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- It was not a threat, "borderline" or otherwise. You are conveniently ignoring a growing number of voices who are all saying the same thing - there is an ownership problem here. The deletion issue has not been "cleared up" as far as I'm concerned. Whenever it is mentioned Anupam insists that he did not "unilaterally" delete the RfCs from the page, which is a blatant distortion, since that is exactly what he did. He continues to act as a policeman at the page, and yes he does continue to cite your authority. Did you bother to read the many diffs I posted above in the second two sections? I will quote three random examples from those I provided for you if you want.
- When he first deleted the two RfCs he wrote: "rv - see discussion with reviewing administrator; approval needed to start another RfC while one is already occurring."
- When he deleted a fact tag that JimWae put into the lede: "rv excessive tagging per talk; tag is already extant in header; do not subvert previous consensus but gain consensus for potential additions per administrative notice"
- When he rejected another recent change to the entry: "accepted edits by User:Jkhwiki; rv removal of longstanding referenced content - see discussion on talk page and gain consensus for action per administrative injunction"
- In talk page comments and in edit summaries he consistently does the same thing. He refers to your authority, either directly or indirectly through your "notice" or your "injunction" as he likes to call it. I never said the claimed to have administrative authority, I said that he's using your authority, by way of your comments, such as the closure of the AfD to bully people. Do you deny that he citing your comments, because if you do then I must have fabricated those quotes. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:32, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
If you say "If you don't do A, then I'm going to go and do B", that's a threat. Anyway, that's not the issue - we've already covered all the issues with the RfC reverting, and Anupam won't do it again. Why keep raising hell over it?
We've already covered everything you bring up. And no, I'm not denying anything. I'm just saying this, and it's very simple: I don't think there has been any blatant ownership here. That's my judgment. If you disagree, again, feel free to raise this with another administrator or on ANI. m.o.p 23:12, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Regarding the new RFC, I still think there has not passed yet too much time since the last discussion about splitting the article. As far as I knew, repeating these sorts of debates (like splitting, deleting, renaming) before a larger amount of time has passed (like 6 months) is usually discouraged. And as others have also argued earlier, even if having multiple RFCs is possible, it's not very useful, and the new RFC seems to discourage further discussion about improving the lead introduction. So preventing multiple RFCs (and also a RFC about an issue debated not too long ago) does not look to me like evidence of bad faith intentions. Cody7777777 (talk) 21:37, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Cody, would you mind linking me to the previous RfC on splitting? m.o.p 21:49, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- The previous attempt to split the article can be found here. Cody7777777 (talk) 21:55, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Response
Yes, it does. Thanks, m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Dear User:Master of Puppets, I just noticed that User:Binksternet started another RfC while a current one is occurring. Is this appropriate? I reverted the addition motioning for one until your response is confirmed. If it is acceptable, then I apologize and will revert my edit. I look forward to your response. With regards, AnupamTalk 15:14, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'll form my reply on ANI. m.o.p 17:12, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- When you do please take into account my comment just above, regarding Anupam's edit warring to remove talk page comments (namely these RfCs) posted by others on the talk page. If you still don't think this is WP:OWN then clearly other administrators are needed here.Griswaldo (talk) 17:15, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Dear User:Griswaldo, how is going to a neutral mediator to address the issue owning the article? I acknowledge that the article is in dispute and as a result, I am asking an administrator for advice in this matter, NOT handling things on my own, as you have done by edit warring. Your WP:OWN allegations have not only been dismissed by this administrator, but by several other users, including, User:Lionelt, User:Cody7777777 and User:NYyankees51. Thanks, AnupamTalk 17:27, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- In reply to Griswaldo: reverting the RfCs was a mistake, but we've cleared that up now. As Anupam has stated at ANI, the intent was not to discourage discussion. If you think my judgment is compromised, you're welcome to seek another administrator's input. m.o.p 21:04, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- And as further evidence of WP:OWN, see this. Anupam adds a comment to everything that anyone else says, as if he/she is the owner of the article and everyone else is a subordinate contributor. This particular instance is pretty benign (although it clutters up the talk page with an unnecessary comment that merely says "I agree"), but I do think that Anupam at least needs to learn how to avoid giving the appearance of thinking he/she owns the article, and to desist from chipping in and saying the same thing over and over again, which almost makes meaningful discussion impossible! SNALWIBMA ( talk - contribs ) 17:31, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- While the input is appreciated, as I've said before, making allegations of ownership without hard evidence isn't going to get us anywhere. Anupam is not stopping others from discussing changes or forming consensus, and that's all that matters - refactoring the talk page or commenting on an issue is not against policy, and I'm not going to tell someone to stop editing because it "looks" like they're doing something wrong. As said above, you're welcome to request another administrator's insight if you wish. m.o.p 21:04, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
COIHi
you've helped me out before, with a conflict of interest problem, so having much more experience than me on wikipedia, I thought I would be bold enough to ask again for help.
Similar problem to last, User_talk:Hobbycraft is editing the HOBBYCRAFT article and making changes that aren't citably right. I think the user name suggest and history suggests a conflict of interest case.
Can you please, speak to them addressing this issue.
Thank you very much for your help.
Markcoulter50 (talk) 22:27, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
- I've blocked that user for username violations. Thanks a lot for letting me know! Keep up the great work, m.o.p 23:00, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkbackcausa sui (talk) 18:47, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Hello. You have a new message at causa sui's talk page. causa sui (talk) 20:54, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Problematic editing on militant atheism
- I hope it's not considered defamatory to repeat the final line: "I merely present the diffs above, and let others draw their own conclusions. Is this a duck? Does it quack? You decide.". Unfortunately, the concerned community no longer has that opportunity. What did you decide on their behalf? Does this duck quack, or not? bobrayner (talk) 15:42, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- It's not your wording, it's the very idea of it. Going to what's allegorically a public place and shouting, "Hey, everybody, this man is a criminal!" is one step below blatantly forming a lynch mob. As I've said, I have no problem with your wording or evidence, just your location of choice. Wikipedia is not, unfortunately, a democracy - letting others draw their conclusions and voice their opinions is not how a sockpuppet investigation works.
- So yes, please don't go restoring any of that section. We're not discussing editors, we're discussing the content they produce. Anything else has a sub-board to deal with it (like WP:SPI).
- Hopefully that clears things up! I'll be happy to answer any more questions should you have them. Cheers, m.o.p 15:48, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Hello User:Bobrayner, I noticed the section you created on the militant atheism talk page. If you do feel the way you do about User:Turnsalso and the anonymous IP Addresses, you can take this up with WP:SPI. Thanks, AnupamTalk 15:52, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
Are you kidding my MoP? Above your write: Going to what's allegorically a public place and shouting, "Hey, everybody, this man is a criminal!" is one step below blatantly forming a lynch mob. AND We're not discussing editors, we're discussing the content they produce. Yet you call this edit by Lionelt "good faith," at WQA? MoP, I would not ask you to agree with me or to like me, but can I please ask you not to insult me with these double standards.Griswaldo (talk) 16:18, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
]
- Griswaldo, I mean no offense when I say this, but I'd appreciate it if you stayed out of discussions which didn't involve you. Also, please don't put words in my mouth. Thanks, m.o.p 16:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I have not put words in your mouth. You said that you would assume good faith about Lionel. If you "assume good faith" it means you assume his edits were in "good faith." If you did not intend that meaning I suggest you reconsider what you wrote. Also, if you want me to "stay out of discussion which don't involve me" then I suggest your first order of business should be to do the same thing yourself. You decided to post at WQA, when there was no mention of you or anything you've done in that thread. Once again, I expect people not to practice double standards. So as long as you cannot show me that you will treat me as you ask to be treated yourself, I will not oblige you. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:21, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Please stop bickering. I'm not quite sure what you're trying to accomplish here. I've already explained what I meant when I said assuming good faith, but I'll explain again: I assumed that Lionelt was not hounding or deliberately haranguing you. I did not say, at any point, that his edit content was good faith, and I've told him not to edit like that again. So please stop accusing me of saying things I haven't said.
- Also, I posted in WQA because, as a mediator in this case and as an administrator, it's my duty to weigh in on administrative noticeboards, especially when the case is an ongoing discussion I've been participating in for three months. It is not your duty to weigh in on discussions on my talk page that don't concern you. I hope the distinction is clear here. m.o.p 20:33, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I think you are confused about something. Content is never good faith. "Editing in good faith" and "good faith edits" refers to the intent of the editor always. It has nothing to do with content. My assumption that you also felt the edits were appropriate comes from the fact that you did not say they weren't appropriate and clearly feel that his intentions were good. If you'd like to set the record straight on that issue you still can. I've asked you twice now to discuss the actual edits that are the focal point of the thread. Also, I moved the thread to ANI, per the suggestion of the editor who marked it "resolved."Griswaldo (talk) 20:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- See Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#User:Lionelt_--_following_my_past_edits_to_drum_up_support_against_me. FYI, I copy pasted the entire discussion because both you and Collect were critical of my initial post and I thought it was the right thing to do to preserve that criticism in the record of the conversation. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:43, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- In reply to your first paragraph: I'm going to give up now, as it seems you're misunderstanding most of what I type, but you're the one who stated that the content was not good faith (as you said, not appropriate), and I agreed - I referred to his intent in replying to you, and said that I assumed good faith in his motives, not his replies. I can't really say that in a clearer way, so my apologies if it's hard to understand. Also, as I've already said, I've left a message for Lionelt about his edits, so clearly I do not feel they're appropriate. m.o.p 20:57, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I, too, find these double standards vexing.
- Which diff is defamatory?
- I had hitherto thought that people on the article talkpage might like to be aware of potential problems with votestacking on the article talkpage (and 3rr evasion, of course). Would it be permitted to add a link to that list of diffs when it's in a different place, or would you consider that defamatory too? bobrayner (talk) 16:23, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- As I said, the information is not defamatory, but the way it's presented is - we have specific processes available to pursue should one feel there are sockpuppets about. However, calling someone out with the intent of informing the community is overstepping your authority and damaging to the accused's character. Also, there's no way a community discussion about whether or not one editor is a sockpuppet can end in anything other than a sockpuppet investigation anyway.
- So, in closing, please don't bring issues like this to the talk page. If you're concerned about votestacking, take it to the appropriate venue - if your concerns are validated, we'll take measures against said puppets. Cheers, m.o.p 16:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I am very disappointed that it's no longer permissible to raise problems with article-editing on the article talkpage. Previous concerns about sockpuppetry were simply ignored; the difference this time is that it's backed by lots of diffs.
- I'm fairly confident that the people concerned have sufficient technical nous to make checkuser draw a blank. And, let's be entirely honest, within minutes of me creating an SPI, an admin of the right persuasion will be getting an email suggesting that an SPI needs their attention. And SPI does not see offsite coordination by a facebook group &c. Finally, any null result at SPI will be used at the article in much the same way as previous administrative decisions have been. So, I do not believe that an SPI will improve either the article, or the encyclopædia as a whole. bobrayner (talk) 17:08, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- If you don't think the pre-existing methods set in place for situations like this are sufficient, you can always raise that concern at the village pump or suggest a policy revision - however, SPI is the venue for these requests, and the only venue. The talk page can not substitute. m.o.p 17:10, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
76.228.226.122Thank you for blocking the anonymous user, who is being counterproductive and rude. (although I think the block should have been one week, but I guess ok at least)
Can you also please try to hide the edit summaries of these edits if possible?
This and
this
Thanks and regards, talk 05:04, 26 September 2011 (UTC)]
- I'll extend the block if this behaviour continues after the block period is over.
- As for the edit summaries, those don't warrant hiding - I apologize for their content, but they don't meet the criteria of what I should remove. It's best just to ignore them for now. Cheers, m.o.p 05:13, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
- Okay, good to know, if I did nothing wrong, no permanent block will be enforced. The IP does not volunteer on WP as an admin and so the disproportionately out of line comments and threats of his should be ignored. --talk 05:19, 26 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Sounds good. We only hide extremely offensive revisions; milder ones stay in the edit history. Thanks again for bringing this to our attention! Cheers, m.o.p 05:31, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
Email
Jasper Deng (talk) 05:29, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
- Reading. talk) 06:00, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Bad Girls Club
- I've blocked Junebea for 2 days for disregarding warnings. m.o.p 20:30, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks for helping :) Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 21:06, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkback
- And again.Griswaldo (talk) 04:24, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
- And again ... but maybe the last. You can settle this question once and for all. See the talk page.Griswaldo (talk) 06:09, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'm sure I'm not alone in wanting to hear your replies to the last responses posed to you at that page. IMO, I don't know why you went down the road you did, but as far as I can tell you're blatantly misrepesenting facts about your own actions when people are brining concerns to you. You might think that since you closed the RfC the matter is settled, but it is not. You're actions have not made my life any more pleasant in the last few days vis-a-vis trying to deal with Anupam's disruption and I think you owe us all answers. So please revisit this thread and deal with the open questions. Thanks.Griswaldo (talk) 02:19, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
- I invite you to stop asking the same question again and again. This would be appreciated. Thanks, m.o.p 02:33, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Block question
- No, I just block obviously bad-faith accounts on sight. Advertising/spam accounts fall under that category. m.o.p 00:37, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Thanks
- Thank you. I've unlocked the article for whatever may come. If I'm needed again, feel free to let me know. Thanks for the kind words again, m.o.p 05:12, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
reminder
- We're still waiting to see if the user understands COI policy (per Ed's question). I'll prod the user and see if they'll answer. talk) 19:20, 30 September 2011 (UTC)]
Nextel logo deleted
- Mmm, good point. What's the link to the logo in question? m.o.p 01:33, 2 October 2011 (UTC)
Support of Sage City SymphonyYou deleted this page before I had a chance to go back in and add the stuff that you wanted to see, including the links within Wikipedia to important composers such as Lou Callabro (who started this orchestra and cites it in his Wikipedia page) and Susan Hurley whose work we premiered (SC is also mentioned in her Wikipedia entry). (Let alone links about the works we have performed.) And we have a web site at www.sagecitysymphony.org, have existed for over 35 yrs and are a significant cultural resource in the Bennington area such that we receive grants from local, statewide and national foundations.
I broke my wrist last weekend and am doing one-handed pecking so it'll take me a few days to get that loaded in. We are going out for a bit now, but I would appreciate your undeleting the page so that I don't have to re-invent the starting part when I go back in tomorrow to add links. Or delete it entirely so that I can start fresh - at this point either would work as long as I can start some serious work on it tomorrow. I am the webmaster by the way, so I do have access to content and more links.
Thank you, Celia Murray — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.228.127.119 (talk) 14:22, 1 October 2011 (UTC)
- It looks like fixed everything up. Best of luck, m.o.p 01:35, 2 October 2011 (UTC)]
Reply on Deterence's talk page
MA
After the beating you took you deserve a cold one--on me! Thanks for being fair and balanced – Lionel (talk) 03:55, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
- Hey, thanks! Glad to help out. :) m.o.p 03:56, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
Deletion of Mau5trap Recordings
--neocharles (talk) 07:33, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Existence does not equal notability - the subject has to be notable to get a Wikipedia page. m.o.p 12:05, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
Questoin re: AIV
- Addendum, actually, I read it very clearly in WP:VANDNOT: "Uploading or using material on Wikipedia in violation of Wikipedia's copyright policies is prohibited, but is not vandalism unless the user does so maliciously or fails to heed warnings." So if a person fails to heed warnings it is vandalism. My mistake here was that I only warned once. --Muhandes (talk) 12:29, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Eh, technically it is vandalism, but the user seems to be trying to improve the Wikipedia - that desire to help is misplaced in this case, as they seem to think that using copyrighted content is actually better. Weird. For most cases, yes, you should report copyvio to AIV - as long as they've been warned sufficiently. m.o.p 12:42, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- OK, he now did it again and the time stamp is after your last warning. Is it vandalism now? --Muhandes (talk) 12:32, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Yeah, if they're outright ignoring warnings. I've blocked for three days. m.o.p 12:40, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
Classmusic
- Oh, I know. But if somebody's lied to my face about using another account - and to other editors working on the article - I'm not about to let them go without a repercussion or two. I'd like Almost-instinct and Voceditnore to look over the article and fix up anything shifty. Also, I'd like Classmusic to respond to my warning, instead of blanking it and ignoring like they have to the above-named editors.
- So, in short, I know that COI doesn't bar editing, but it's enough of a concern that, given the user's recent behaviour, I'll stop them from doing anything until we've figured things out. This isn't too rouge-y, is it? I didn't hear that. Perhaps he is unaware of the sockpuppet investigation findings. Anyhow it seems that DeltaQuad has also blocked the Classmusic account. I left a note on his page about using the unblock template, but re-iterated that he needs to read the COI and Autobiography guidelines and stick to them scrupulously, if he gets unblocked. In the Opera and Classical Music WikiProjects, we get a lot of articles for performers, ensembles, etc. created by their agents and PR people, and often themselves. In my experience, the best I can hope for after one of these tussles is that they'll edit their article according to the guidelines in future. I have yet to find a single one who has ever contributed anything else to Wikipedia. Their only interest in the project is as a PR tool. Having said that, at least it results (after much red-pencilling from other editors) in one new article on a notable subject that we didn't have before and in a small way redresses the pop culture systemic bias here. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 13:40, 5 October 2011 (UTC)]
Danish election
- Never mind, it's been pulled by another admin. All the best, Jenks24 (talk) 11:03, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry about that! I was busy all day and didn't get your message until now. Thanks for letting me know, though! Cheers, m.o.p 19:51, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
3RRHey there! :)
Well WP:CRYSTAL has wined down, however, there's currently a
The Bad Girls Club (season 7). I have notified the two users [32], [33]. The evidence can be found here. They are having an edit-conflict on how the "Duration of cast" should be presented. Since there's no rules regarding anything like that, and it was made up about a year ago, I couldn't warned them to stop their e/c with anything except the 3RR rule. Maybe they need an admin to tell them to stop, so that's why I came to you :) Thanks, Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 01:17, 6 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Temporary page protection requested. Calabe1992 (talk) 01:29, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
Talkback 16:14, 19 February 2011 (UTC)
Protect my talk page
- Lately, this IP also misused the edit war template on my talk page.Jasper Deng (talk) 00:37, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
Block an IP
E-Mail
nice guyhiii master of puppets,
ok do u know the movie Twilght saga ?
rply me back i want 2 talk 2 u a lot because i like ur pesonalty.BY
talk) 11:58, 28 April 2011 (UTC)]
File source problem with File:MoPuppetarmy.pngThank you for uploading File:MoPuppetarmy.png. I noticed that the file's description page currently doesn't specify who created the content, so the copyright status is unclear. If you did not create this file yourself, you will need to specify the owner of the copyright. If you obtained it from a website, please add a link to the website from which it was taken, together with a brief restatement of that website's terms of use of its content. However, if the copyright holder is a party unaffiliated from the website's publisher, that copyright should also be acknowledged.
If you have uploaded other files, consider verifying that you have specified sources for those files as well. You can find a list of files you have created in your upload log. Unsourced and untagged images may be deleted one week after they have been tagged per Wikipedia's criteria for speedy deletion, F4. If the image is copyrighted and non-free, the image will be deleted 48 hours after 11:44, 11 May 2011 (UTC) per speedy deletion criterion F7. If the file is already gone, you can still make a request for undeletion and ask for a chance to fix the problem. You may wish to read the Wikipedia's image use policy. If you have any questions or are in need of assistance please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. Magog the Ogre (talk) 11:44, 11 May 2011 (UTC)
The Deputy
- Thanks for your reply. My concern was not that Jayjg indicated he would rewrite and did not do so, but that he had agreed to allow more of the disputed section in the article rather than a dismissive sentence or two, but when editors began to delete the entire section based on frivolous reasons, he supported it. It appears now that we have, or are in the process of reaching a resolution. The section is now in the article, reduced substantially to account of Jayjg's concers about undue weight. Mamalujo (talk) 18:40, 27 May 2011 (UTC)
Carla Rushing page deletion
Any further discussion of Sarah Palin will result in a warning, and then a temporary block. Thank you!Hmmm, that might be just a tad excessive. We don't want to suppress all discussion, because that's when the pressure has nowhere to go, and people will go and meatball:ExpandScope.
Since scope is already expanded to international media, forcing scope to expand further might be a bit of a Bad Idea (tm). I recommend Not Going There.
If we're really intent on keeping discussions off of WP, we can always create a wikinews article, and link to the "discuss this article" page.
However, at the moment, people seem to be keeping it down to a dull roar anyway.
--Kim Bruning (talk) 22:44, 6 June 2011 (UTC)
- I think you caught my side point, but I'd like to stress the part I'm trying to tell you to watch out for!
- Long term empirical experience shows that attempts to curtail discussion on wikipedia will not slow down the internet discussion elsewhere (or even on wikipedia). Instead, that's exactly what will feed it more and more steam. So Don't Do That.
- Experience shows that the following approaches work:
- Try to centralize all (spurious) discussion in one place
- keep it as focused on encyclopedic work as possible.
- Treat the new users like new users. They don't know our rules yet. Teach them!
- The foundation would like to see us be more welcoming towards new users. That's a good idea! Let's do that.
- --Kim Bruning (talk) 00:26, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
- And... it went to AN/I (see below) --Kim Bruning (talk) 01:33, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
Edit Notice on Paul RevereYou seem to be asserting some admin right to quench discussion on the talk page by blocking and/or warning with the editnotice that I don't think we have, by policy. IAR doesn't cover stomping on people, no matter how annoying a particular conversation is.
Kelly started a
WP:ANI discussion on this.
Followups probably best on ANI as I am sure others will want to comment. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 01:15, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
- On review - I'm going to blank the edit notice now. If an ANI consensus develops to support restoring it then I'll not object at all, but I think it's novel and enough of a stretch that the default should be "no" unless consensus develops otherwise. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 01:19, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
How does a user find a mentor?
Helen Lucy Burke
Talkback
I did what you asked but the IP reverted it again. PTJoshua (talk) 21:09, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
- You're removing everything I say. Please don't do this. It isn't helpful. --86.45.75.42 (talk) 21:19, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
- I'll talk to them. Sit tight for a second. m.o.p 21:10, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
RE: Deletion of 48gogreen page :ApalejaHello,
Thank you for quick response. I appreciate your reason. but if you do some research you'll find more then 4 or 5 substantial mentions in local or international media - in a newspaper, on a notable website, etc. - to put forward this article.
There is a link on official website of company. http://www.48gogreen.com/static/web
Looking forward for your response. thank you in advance to undelete article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Apaleja (talk • contribs) 08:03, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
Here are some articles from International Press (you can use Google translator-if you use chrome it'll provide option immediately):
http://www.regione.emilia-romagna.it/wcm/cinema/sezioni_primopiano/PrimoPiano/Gadoev.htm
http://domani.arcoiris.tv/girano-un-corto-in-48-ore-e-arrivano-dritti-a-cannes/
http://www.close-up.it/spip.php?article6724
http://www.flashvideo.it/news/9/2578/
http://www.radioemiliaromagna.it/cultura/cinema/videomaker_bolognesi_cannes_corto_ecologico.aspx
Also if YOU HAD READ careful our site you should have see the Press link (those are press links not blogs) with all these web press: http://www.48gogreen.com/static/web
Thank you — Preceding unsigned comment added by Apaleja (talk • contribs) 08:22, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
Final warning On Edit Warring of Efik language disputeIf My Reporting a false article is the reason you want to block me. Then Go ahead and BLOCK me.- I can be Block because I don't care to be part of a web/Encyclopedia of Lies! Although I have contributed anonymously to wikipedia since 2008, I only just signed on a few weeks ago to report an error that I thought was made. But you and your other BIASED administrators have refused to fix this error, instead you're all threatening to block me.
- : According to Wikipedia A false statement/article is removed immediatley it is realized. Yet as am reporting it you all are threatening me for causing disruption.
- You all are saying that I called I called Kwami Slow, Dumb etc. Yet Kwami used the words Ignorance first.
"As for Ukwa, your ignorance is not evidence of anything".
- What is the meaning of IGNORANCE? S/He also said;
"But we cannot have the same article under two names, nor an article on Ibibio-Efik that does not include Ibibio, nor an article on Efik that does not include Efik. A little common sense would be helpful."
- What is meaning of Common sense? Or because Kwami put it very nicely, and mine wasn't? Also I wasn't blanking the Efik page, since I just signed on it takes me a long while to write up an article. According to the statements above, Kwami said I could develop articles on Efik and Ibibio, that is what I was doing when you or your other BIASED administrators returned the articles back to the re-direct.
- : Since wikipedia says a false statement is fixed immediately it is reported, I explained out the mistakes, but Kwami kept insisting that me a native who speaks these languages was wrong and asked for sources. I provided the sources and Kwami Called A brilliant Historian who is a Million times more knowledgable than Kwami on the language;
"utterly ignorant AND not some random idiot who posted a web page".
- Yet you and your other Biased colleges are claiming that am the one attacking Kwami and causing a disruption.
- : Am done with Wikipedia, am going to be taking this issues to the Founder/head by email, once the Ibibio union are involved it might become a legal matter if Wikipedia still continues to portray this misleading information.
I will take this matter to the heads by Email first because they might not be aware of what you all supposed administrators are doing to their image. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ibibiogrl (talk • contribs) 21:41, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
Hi Mops,
Pls read my comments on the ANI page. I think Ibibiogrl means well, she just needs some guidance, and she's not willing to take it from me. — kwami (talk) 22:17, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
- Obviously we would like to have contributors from that part of the world, but Ibibiogrl's record here is so unpromising that I think we need good assurances that something will change in the future. (I would welcome any evidence that Ibibiogrl means well. It is hard to improve the encyclopedia when you have no interest in or respect for its policies. Read her statement above if you are uncertain about that). Mentorship has value only for someone who understands that something has gone wrong and would be willing to work with a mentor. EdJohnston (talk) 22:46, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
- I agree with Ed in this case - I have no grudge against Ibibiogrl, but the editor's attitude, despite multiple pleas for otherwise, remained combative and even insulting at points. If there's a serious expression of guilt and the editor decides they'd like to walk a different path, I'd be happy to help. However, as it is now, I believe the block should stand. m.o.p 22:52, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
- I agree that it would require some indication that she wants help. Just my 2¢ as the person she's most upset with. — kwami (talk) 23:05, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
- For the record, your input is highly appreciated, and very admirable; as the editor in conflict with her, I respect your neutrality and helpfulness. As for Ibibiogrl, we'll see where that goes. Cheers! m.o.p 00:59, 17 June 2011 (UTC)
Can you adopt me i want a new adopter.
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Mr. Pit (2nd nomination)
This isn't personalI belive the AFD on Campaign for "santorum" neologism was closed way to early and am contesting your close.
An editor has asked for a deletion review of Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2011 June 21. Because you closed the deletion discussion for this page, speedily deleted it, or otherwise were interested in the page, you might want to participate in the deletion review. KoshVorlon' Naluboutes Aeria Gloris 12:17, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
James Ball
Thank you for your concern. But I will not be blocked - _I am adding_ wikipedia to adblock. I also feel regret for having donated to the site before, but this will not happen again. Demonuminon (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 23:25, 23 June 2011 (UTC).
Thomas James BallWhy the hell did you delete his page?
Does his suffering mean nothing to you?
Heartless bitch. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.57.206.141 (talk • contribs)
Hey, Master of Puppets, OBVIOUSLY there is a public interested in keeping this article. Restore your deletion. Look at the massive flood of comments regarding your deletion here: http://www.<linkremoved>.com/2011/06/24/the-organized-silencing-of-a-man-publicly-burned-to-death/ and here http://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/i81rw/the_organized_silencing_of_a_man_publicly_burned/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Romerom (talk • contribs) 20:05, 24 June 2011 (UTC)
- Ball HIT A FOUR-YEAR-OLD CHILD, refused to pay child support, called for insurrection, demanded terrorism and violence as a solution, ultimately killed himself (leaving his children without a father) and damaged public property in the process. Even after all that, his incoherent message has mostly been ignored except by the less discriminating people claiming to speak for "men's rights" who haven't bothered to look into the details of his case. (If you really want to damage your cause, adopt a grown man who hits his own four-year-old child and flakes out on his child support as your poster boy.) --Orange Mike | Talk 20:26, 24 June 2011 (UTC) (proud father who has never hit his child in his lifetime)
Hey, "proud father who never hit his child in his lifetime", not everybody is against disciplining their children by spanking. He said his daughter was licking his hand, and he had told her repeatedly to stop. She didn't, and he smacked her. He didn't punch her, or send her to the hospital, or cause any serious injury. Just enough to have his wife baited into calling the police on him by child protective services. As for child support, he paid his child support until the point where he wasn't able to afford it due to an employment issue. Is that such a crazy thing to have happen? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.211.155.1 (talk) 04:28, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
- Again, while I do sympathize with the family and supporters, I am not taking sides, nor do I have any bias in this situation. I am not a feminist, nor am I a misogynist - I am fair and neutral towards all people, whether they be abusive fathers or abused fathers.
- This deletion was enforced solely in keeping with Wikipedia's long-established policies. Mr. Ball's death, while indeed tragic, was not reported throughout the reliable media enough to show his notability.
- I hope this makes sense to all those saddened by Mr. Ball's passing. Cheers, m.o.p 21:04, 24 June 2011 (UTC)
- I understand that you do not think that Mr. Ball's death is something that qualifies as an event and thus deleted said article. I disagree but I do see the merits of your argument. However, you claim to be unbiased in this debate and yet for someone who judges on the letter of the law you break the law and close debate 2.5 days before final judgment is to be rendered. If you have no corner then I ask why make this article a special case that it must be quelled , by your own admission, 2.5 days before any other articles found in similar circumstances are voted upon. I petition you to reinstate and allow the normal course of the discussion continue for the 2.5 days, allow the full opportunity for the pro side to make their case then recluse yourself from the final judgment. This is the only way to ensure transparency so that your claim of neutrality can be believed. CaffOMHW (talk) 03:28, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
- Ahead of things, let me tell you that I appreciate the civility.
- Wikipedia's policies aren't law - they're guidelines. As an administrator, it's my job to apply policy in a way that is completely devoid of bias and benefits the encyclopedia as a whole.
- On a side note, the deletion nomination was closed 1.5 days before the normal time. The page had a whole work week to be saved, rewritten or reworked; however, due to the lack of outside sourcing that carried reliability, there was nothing to keep that wasn't editorialized or unencyclopedic. I would also like to point out that almost every account that voiced their opinion in the 'keep' spectrum had either only edited that page or had edited very little aside from the page. Meanwhile, the deletion argument was put forward by experienced users.
- Though I understand that some people take offense to my early closure, I assure them that one extra day would not have yielded success, and that I took many factors into consideration before closing the discussion.
- Again, thank you for the civility, but I won't be overturning judgment or recreating a deletion discussion at this date. m.o.p 08:17, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
ITNthx for the 2 quick updates of my nom ;)
but also can you see the bolivia one. its got support and very nearly out of the news. we could tack it nearer the border.Lihaas (talk) 22:26, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
Ball closure.
Thank God you are an ambassador for WP, and against censorship, MoP. When Wikipedia fails, and it eventually will, it will largely be because most people don't like to be gamed and would rather not read well cultivated information that is maintained by dishonest brokers who hide behind rules that are never applied in an even-handed manner. The idea that a story is not relevant merely because it is not yet encyclopedic is ridiculous when one sees all the articles which linger on for months or years in the same state. The idea that a story is not relevant because the motivations/justifications of the user are suspect would be grounds for eliminating half the biographical articles in WP. It smacks of an agenda. The appearance of impropriety is as bad as actual impropriety.173.78.20.96 (talk) 04:51, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
- I appreciate the feedback.
- I do my best to maintain an equal, proportionate response in all dealings on Wikipedia; I don't defend things I like, or attack things I dislike, just for the reason of screwing with people. That strikes me as childish. Instead, the most I can do is try to help others understand Wikipedia policies, which are generally mind-bending and hard to grasp (for example, most people ask, "What's the reasoning a war hero isn't considered notable when Donkey Kong is?").
- Maybe one day the policies will change. I mean, most of these were written five, six year ago - the world's changing, and I expect they will with time. But, for now, the guidelines handle what comes in.
- Again, thanks for the input. I appreciate not being personally attacked - it makes it easier to reply. Cheers, m.o.p 05:08, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Natami (2nd nomination)
- The close was thoroughly thought-out, so there's not much ground for me to explore that I haven't already. If you're set on going to DRV, there's nothing I can say which will change your mind, and it's your right to ask for a review. However, current consensus sits at delete (unless the 'keep' side is hiding an ace-in-the-hole reliable source or something). Cheers, m.o.p 04:55, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- So, what about the reliable sources we already brought up in the AfD such as this interview in Amiga Future or this news article from nr2.ru? We've already established that Amiga Future isn't sponsored by a hardware company as one !voter there falsely claimed. On a related note, did you discount the !votes from individuals making misleading statements or those claiming there were "no independent reliable sources"? (I could tell you how that !voter happened to show up there, but he isn't going to like it.) I could also link to forum posts by another delete !voter who showed up there who was very much into a "delete at any cost" mode because he doesn't like "amiga clones". --Tothwolf (talk) 05:11, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- Those sources were there before the previous close, and I, like the previous administrator, do not think they're strong enough.
- I've already covered what kind of rationale was discounted and what wasn't.
- As for your last statement about other editors - I'm not quite sure what your point is, but I don't think it's relevant. As I said, I've discounted any rationale that does not apply policy.
- Cheers, m.o.p 05:33, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- Uh, no...nr2.ru was only brought up in the second AfD. Strong enough is also an argument to be made in a !vote, not a closing statement. --Tothwolf (talk) 05:56, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- My apologies, the Russian source was indeed added after the first AfD. Still too shaky for a stand-alone article, though. Cheers, m.o.p 13:42, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- To follow up on my earlier comment, while I don't really want to get into an "X did this because of Y" sort of thing with regards to this AfD, there were a number of delete !voters who showed up there for personal reasons/vendettas/bias and/or who made false statements about sources. Despite the template at the top of the AfD, the second AfD also didn't suffer from the forum canvassing that the first did. One of the delete !voters actually came by way of the forum and first AfD and was trolling because of his personal dislike of Amiga clones. --Tothwolf (talk) 15:33, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
If they have valid, policy-based rationale, their personal motivation doesn't matter, solely for the reason that an encyclopedia based on liking or disliking things would crumble instantly. I'm sure some of the deletion crew could just-as-easily blame keep voters for being enthusiasts and fans of Natami - but that's not important. As a result, making allegations of personal bias is unnecessary. The help is appreciated, but there's nothing I can do with the information. m.o.p 15:39, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- It matters when someone makes false statements and tries to hide what they are doing behind policy. As for keeps, quite a number appear to be from well established editors who don't appear to be all that interested in Amiga topics. As for myself, I wasn't even aware of NatAmi until the first AfD and didn't even !vote in the first AfD since I thought it was pretty obvious it was headed for a no-consensus close. --Tothwolf (talk) 15:58, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- Again, if their rationale is grounded in policy, their motivation does not matter, simply because it's impossible to discern someone's intent through text, and because the second someone accuses another of favoritism/malicious intent the entire argument turns into a bunch of people shouting, "You're lying." That's why there's nothing I can do with your information in this case. Cheers, m.o.p 16:02, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- Apologies to you, M.O.P., for addressing another editor on your talk page, but I just wanted to jump in this conversation. Tothwolf, with no prejudice against you at all I strongly suggest you take this in perspective. There have been two AFDs and an ANI report over this article. The way you treated me on my talk page threatening DRV because I was a new administrator was, as I feel it, borderline harassing. That you canvassed two other administrators to talk to me was also a below the belt move. In good faith, I relisted the debate and it has closed again as delete. I strongly suggest taking the advice at WP:DGAF into account here and let the issue go. I don't think there will be a problem recreating this article, even pulling the old content back from the deletion log, when the subject has better sources in a broader community. I hold no ill feeling toward you, this is purely honest advice.--v/r - TP 16:46, 27 June 2011 (UTC)]
- TParis, while you are correct in that this talk page is not the place for this, because you brought this up here and you seem to value honest feedback, I'll address this here.
In no way did I ever threaten you with DRV, let alone because you were a new administrator (discussion in question). I did however upon noticing that you had passed RFA only days earlier decide it best not to press you further in public and instead sent you this short email: "Sigh. I just noticed you just finished your RFA. The Natami AfD was a bad AfD to pick to close right out of the gate. It is likely to end up at DRV and given the magazine I mentioned, overturned. I really wish you would reconsider your close. You might have noticed I didn't even !vote in the AfD itself, however I did point out a number of things and took a couple of people to task for making false or misleading statements." That is the only email I sent you about the matter and not once did I ever threaten you with DRV. Please get your facts correct before making statements such as this because such mistakes can have a negative effect on others.
After you replied expressing your disagreement over the sources (and implied that I might be biased because I sometimes contribute to computing-related articles) I asked a number of other administrators (way more than two, actually) what they thought of the AfD's close because I wanted unbiased feedback to see if I was somehow totally off-track before I initiated a DRV. The feedback I got was fairly unanimous in that the close was problematic. Before I had a chance to draft a DRV however, you reverted your own close and relisted the AfD from scratch with a new listing. In no way did I ever "canvass" anyone to "talk to you" and if others did contact you directly, they did so at their own discretion and for their own reasons.
There indeed have been two AfDs, the first of which you closed (although one could also argue that the second was merely a relist of the first). The AN/I "discussion" you also mentioned wasn't really over this article or the first AfD, it was an attempt by someone to game AN/I when they were unable to bully me on their talk page. Please be more careful making these sort of blanket statements in the future because as I mentioned above such statements can cause problems for others. --Tothwolf (talk) 17:38, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- You're email was exactly like your reply here. You like to make threats without actually making them: "such statements can cause problems". There is very little way your email cannot be interpreted as anything other than a threat of DRV because I am a new administrator. This is all I'll say on M.O.P.'s talk page as I came here to offer honest advice and you don't seem interested in it. If you'd like to discuss further with me, you know where to find my talk page.--v/r - TP 17:51, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- TParis, in no way did I ever make an implied threat. While I may be a little blunt and abrasive at times (or maybe I'm just an assume good faith in that you simply misremembered the facts I outlined above when you made this statement here. It is easy to forget a few details here or there and not everyone maintains detailed notes for this sort of stuff (I do, for a number of reasons, although I didn't always).
As far as honest advice goes, this is a two-way street and I gave you my opinion as well. If you choose to ignore and discount it, so be it, but I'd suggest you be much more careful in the future and get your facts correct before you make the sort of statement you made above. Such statements can and do cause problems for other editors. Who knows, it may just be that you've not been around long enough yet to have witnessed people blocked or punished in some way because someone else didn't have their facts together. (If you do decide you want to continue this discussion, perhaps we should take this elsewhere.) --Tothwolf (talk) 18:14, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
]
Heaton Park Hebrew Congregation (2nd nomination)
Natami
Thought you might want to know
- (talk page stalker) That's just the same little ideological website which has been pushing for the "Martyrdom of St. Thomas Ball" attention since day one; no actual new coverage. --Orange Mike | Talk 14:34, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
- I guess I should also mention that the way I found it, was that someone tried submitting it to Fark.com last night. The admins did not greenlight it, so that particular submission/thread did not go to the main Fark page, appearing only to those with Totalfark accounts. The submission said something like "Wikipedia deletes burning man" (I'm not at a computer with TF access so I might not have that exactly right). It might, theoretically, based on the submission, be considered some sort of off-site canvassing (it was submitted with the asinine tag). For what its worth, the thread went uncommented, so I don't think that particular attempt garnered any support. I just wanted to drop a line in case that this was just the first drop of a large storm. If I see anything else, I'll drop a line here. Umbralcorax (talk) 15:58, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
Wiki ad
4chan raid
Thomas James Bell, new information
- (reliable sources. --Orange Mike | Talk 13:33, 30 June 2011 (UTC)]
Happy Birthday
![](//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3d/Nuvola_apps_cookie.svg/50px-Nuvola_apps_cookie.svg.png)
Just a happy Birthday message to you, Master of Puppets, from the Wikipedia Birthday Committee! Have a great day!
Monterey Bay (talk) 02:00, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
User:BillyMoses
Natami
AFD
- Your input is appreciated, though there's nothing I can do with it but take a note. If you'd like, you can weigh in at the next AfD(s), when/if they arise. Cheers, m.o.p 19:42, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
Dr Myko San – Health from Mushrooms
- I'd be happy to help! However, I'm currently away from a computer (typing this on my phone), so I'll have to check in on the 11th of July. Does that sound okay? m.o.p 15:40, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
- wp:NODEADLINE :-) LeadSongDog come howl! 15:48, 7 July 2011 (UTC)]
From a former Wikipedian
-71.234.90.0 (talk) 04:50, 8 July 2011 (UTC)
- Hey, thanks so much! I'm not sure who you are, but I really appreciate the sentiment. Hope all is well! m.o.p 20:49, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
Deletion review for Thomas James Ball
DRV comment
DRV
Could you please overturn the deletion of these files per File:Signature of Amitabh Bachchan.svg and File:Signature of Zakir Hussain.svg:
- File:Signature of Vishwanathan Anand.svg
- File:Signature of Vijay Mallya.svg
- File:Signature of Venkaiah Naidu.svg
- File:Signature of Sudeep Bandhopadhyay.svg
- File:Signature of Sonia Gandhi.svg
- File:Signature of Somnath Chatterjee.svg
- File:Signature of Ratan Tata.svg
- File:Signature of Kumar Mangalam Birla.svg
- File:Signature of Rajeev Shukla.svg
- File:Signature of Raj Babbar.svg
- File:Signature of Rahul Gandhi.svg
- File:Signature of Priyanka Vadra.svg
- File:Signature of P. T. Usha.svg
- File:Signature of Narendra Modi.svg
- File:Signature of Nandan Nilekani.svg
- File:Signature of Manish Tewari.svg
- File:Signature of Leander Paes.svg
- File:Signature of Lata Mangeshkar.svg
- File:Signature of Kumar Mangalam Birla.svg
- File:Signature of Karia Munda.svg
- File:Signature of Kapil Sibal.svg
- File:Signature of Kamal Nath.svg
- File:Signature of K. Kamraj.svg
- File:Signature of Jaya Bachchan.svg
- File:Signature of Gautam Gambhir.svg
- File:Signature of Brinda Karat.svg
- File:Signature of Bharatsinh Solanki.svg
- File:Signature of Bhairon Singh Shekhawat.svg
- File:Signature of B. K. Birla.svg
- File:Signature of Azim Premji.svg
- File:Signature of Arun Jaitely.svg
- File:Signature of Aishwarya Rai Bachchan.svg
- File:Signature of Abhishek Manu Singhvi.svg
- File:Signature of Abhishek Bachchan.svg
- File:Signature of Sting.svg
- File:Signature of Br. L. D. Lobo.svg
- File:Signature of VJ Rannvijay Singh Singha.svg
Diligent07Appears to be less than new. See User talk:Raoulduke25 where he states that this is a deliberate series of edits.
- Can you please help defend our collective effort of including the obscene middle-finger incident in the Cheney Mason article? It should be maintained in the article for public interest, etc. Please see the Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard#Cheney Mason discussion page and include your thoughts in favor of having the content remain in the interests of the public, etc
[8], [9] and even imputation that an editor has a connection with the person [10]. He has been on since April, and started off as being experienced on WP IMHO. Kindly keep an eye out please. Especially for any sign of a real "collective effort"? Such as [11]? Cheers. Collect (talk) 11:36, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
A cookie for you!
Keep up the good work defending the "Wiki" against genre warriors. Thanks for the help! talk) 17:31, 13 July 2011 (UTC)]
Hello. You have a new message at Lionelt's talk page.
Semi protection
OK, this thing with the militant atheism page is impossibleThese guys are incredible... I could dig up diffs to show you how they revert and wikilawyer even the SMALLEST attempt to move the article closer to NPOV. But that would take a long time for you to read. How about I show you this instead:
These guys are utterly without scruples. Who in their right mind would remove the NPOV dispute tag when heated arguments have been raging for weeks and NO moves whatsoever have been made to fix the article? Oh right, that would be someone in their right mind who is running a propaganda platform.
Anyway... I wanted to ask your advice on what to do. These guys are impossible to work with. Most of the other editors have given up and refuse to put this page on their watchlist. So what to do then? Request formal mediation? Articles for deletion? Something else?
Me and the other editors would like to see the page replaced with a disambiguation page... since literally ALL the content has already been covered (better) in Criticism of atheism, State atheism and New Atheism.
Obhave (talk) 13:21, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
- Hello User:Master of Puppets. I noticed this conversation and thought I might add that an NPOV policy. Obhave (talk) 13:11, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
- One more thing, m.o.p... my opponents are currently twisting your words to make it look as if you were scolding user:Mann_jess all along. Obhave (talk) 14:42, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
]
User:Jasper Deng page protection
- No worries! m.o.p 19:35, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
Is there a procedure for brutal uncollaborated editing with a destructive intent?I noticed that you recently had problems with proposed brutal editing by Peter S Strempel. Although he has been more sensible on your project in the end (possibly because of your administrator status?) he has not been so with regard to the astrology project pages to which he made a similar 'razor-promise'. Could you please see this Afd request which is one of three he made for major 'history of astrology' articles within the last hour, with a promise on another important page that any comment which is not refrences within 7 days will be removed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Babylonian_astrology
Is there anything that can be done about this officially to stop him wreaking havoc with content whilst he knows that the small group of editors providing content on these pages are already stretched to the limit trying to keep up with what needs to be done? I don't understand what drives some people to want to edit WP like this, but I think it is entriely the result of his ego-stress that when he proposed an edit for a passage, no one favoured it. Hope you can help or advise Zac Δ talk 01:15, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks! assume good faith; I believe that Peter is simply trying to help improve Wikipedia. While his methods may be lacking in some areas, he has displayed a pretty decent grasp on the policies he's trying to enforce.
- However, I agree that he shouldn't be making any changes if they're not discussed with the community first. Do you mind pulling up a few diffs of where he went against consensus? I'll approach him with your concern then. Thanks, m.o.p 03:57, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
- Actually there hasn't been any significant content dispute with Peter. He proposed a change to a section edit which wasn't a very good proposition and a few editors commented but without rancur, and I added a new section post immediately afterwards to point out the proiposed change would contradict with how the definition was given correctly at a later point in the article, outlining how I understood WP policy expected the main astrology article to pull its own content together, along with its summarised content from its daughter pages. Peter never responded to this but other editors started working in that direction immediately. Then, without further discussion or comment, Peter came back four days later to announce an intention to take his 'word razor' to all unreferenced assertions on the main astrology page, its sub-pages, and the portal page itself, to ensure his perceived disagreement was not circumvented in pages he viewed as content forks (I'm still not sure what he means by that). My response to that can be seen - a perfectly reasonable request for him to do what he felt was most productive, but consider that citation-tagging was the way to go. I also placed comments on his talk-page, which you can read if you are interested. That he erupted into a frenzy of AfD requests last night says something, I think, about his unwillingness to discuss and engage in other views. Most of his posts appear as new section declarations that don't appear to have considered the responses other editors give him.
- I've summarised this in the ANI request Dougweller started. The deletion requests were a step too far IMO, and I'm concerned that Peter would spring to such drastic measures in reaction to what he perceives to be me not allowing him to do what he wants to do. I'll be away for a few days so I'm tying up my WP activity now. That underlines my concern that he intends to take such drastic action with only one week's notice of intent. Thanks for looking into this. It would be good if something could be proposed to stop huge problems before they occur. 10:35, 22 July 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zachariel (talk • contribs
)
- One last request. I have just noticed that a related complaint, which is quite serious but has been sidetracked (deliberatly IMO) by Peter's suggestions that I have prevented him from doing what he wants, has been collapsed as "going nowehere" by an unsympathetic editor.
- "Its ben here several days and no admin has even sniffed at a block or ban - clearly you're not going to get admin action. So this should got to WP:DR or WP:RFCU if you want to take it further. I've boldly collapsed this, though I won't be surprised if someone uncollapses it"
- If you can find the time could you at least take a look at that related problem, and consider uncollapsing it, because the issues are serious and have gone beyond the point where Dispute resolution are appropriate. I will be away and have nothing more to add, but the problems identified still remain. Zac Δ talk 10:58, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
What to do?
- I've started a threat at ANI. Those AfDs are purely pointy and if no one objects I'll close them. talk) 06:11, 22 July 2011 (UTC)]
- Replied there. m.o.p 08:20, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
Talk Page on Militant Atheism - Introduction Section
- The update is appreciated, thanks very much. I've been dealing with life for the past two weeks, but I'll be back to close that discussion tonight or tomorrow. Thanks again, m.o.p 22:03, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
- Just bringing this up again, given the current state of this section. I believe the discussion will be archived automatically if not closed. I'm sorry if I sound pushy with you having a lot on your plate of late. If you would prefer, I could alert User:Fastily instead. Turnsalso (talk) 16:55, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
ITN
- I knew that tab I closed had unfinished business on it... thanks. 2008 University of Central Arkansas shootings is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.
The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2008 University of Central Arkansas shootings(2nd nomination) until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on good quality evidence, and our policies and guidelines.
Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article.
talk 14:00, 1 September 2011 (UTC)]
Hey
- Done! Both your userpage and the transcluded page are protected. Cheers, « ₣M₣ » 04:09, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Restored. m.o.p 05:21, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
]
User talk:Joshua the Independent
- My mistake - my block script auto-filled the edit summary. The block was issued due to the user's newfound will to disrupt Wikipedia intentionally. Their previous contributions are welcome, but this behaviour necessitates administrative action. m.o.p 21:52, 13 September 2011 (UTC)
Say hi to your imaginary girlfriend for me
- Well, I do love getting hate mail. Thanks for the laugh! Cheers, m.o.p 05:17, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
...further to the above lovely note, I weighed in on Calabe's talk page - there appears to be more confusion here than at first glance. bou·le·var·dier (talk) 05:19, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
Sorry to drop by again, but Silentsizzlingsausage (talk · contribs) would appear to be a duck. bou·le·var·dier (talk) 05:31, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
- No, it's not an issue! Thanks for the note, blocked. Cheers, WP:SPI. Thanks again, m.o.p 06:13, 14 September 2011 (UTC)]
I have to admit ...
- See the above section. The link is apparently a very subtle spam link that Calabe is removing, and socks are springing up to revert him. Swarm u / t 10:20, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
Moderation
- Alright, I'll make my way back. Thanks for letting me know! m.o.p 05:18, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
User:12.139.96.228
- To be honest, this case is perplexing. Half of this user's edits are constructive (mostly sourced), the other half aren't sourced - and the user won't reply to anybody. I'm also too busy to go through every edit and confirm whether or not it's good. I forgot about this for a while - I'll think about it tonight and figure something out for tomorrow. Thanks for reminding me! m.o.p 05:18, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
Whoops
- Whoops! Must not have been looking when I ran my block script. Thanks for letting me know, I've reblocked them for a far shorter (technically, an infinitely shorter) time. Cheers, m.o.p 22:58, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
Ashleyleggat404
- You're fully right in that the blanking policy covers indefinite blocks. I've removed the user's talk page rights as a result. Thanks again! m.o.p 00:28, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkback
Moderation
- If you look into this please consider whether Anupam's actions on the talk page and the entry itself are violations of WP:OWN. He's been driving off those he disagrees with by bludgening them to death with argument and heavily policing the entry claiming that there is a consensus written in stone despite many dissenting voices. Others have taken to simply calling him "the article's owner." I have had enough of this behavior personally and left him a message about it on his talk page. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:52, 20 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Dear User:Master of Puppets, the above user has misrepresented the occurrences at the article. I started another Introduction discussion at the article's talk page but User:Griswaldo has chosen to edit war over a second NPOV tag, despite the fact that one already exists in the article. He has done so despite the fact that the Introduction is being discussed in a peaceful manner at the talk page, in violation of your injunction: "We've only got consensus on this proposed versions (and loose consensus at that) - please do not attempt to subvert said consensus by making undiscussed changes." I have posted a message on his talk page about this behaviour. Nevertheless, I also do not wish to argue with the user personally and would prefer if you could go back to moderating the discussion between the two parties at the talk page. Thanks for taking the time to read this message. With regards, AnupamTalk 20:58, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- His "injunction?" Adding a neutrality tag to a specific sentence which an editor disputes the neutrality of is hardly "subverting the consensus by making undiscussed changes." Please stop wikilawyering to get your way. There is a growing consensus against your position regarding this article in general as well, despite your aggressive policing of the entry and the talk page. See ]
- I just thought that I would mention that User:Griswaldo, after seeing this message, just now decided to comment in the discussion rather than edit war against consensus further. Thanks for taking the time to read this message. With regards, AnupamTalk 21:51, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- "Edit war against consensus further?" My comment there has nothing to do with your message here. I've made three total edits to this entry ever. One was a copy edit in June, another was reverting an IP vandal, and the third was the revert of your Ownership edit. Please do not insinuate that I'm a edit warrior on this page. It is disingenuous.Griswaldo (talk) 22:08, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Thank you all for approaching me with your concerns.
- Obviously, I do not support Anupam - this is because I'm remaining a neutral third party, and, therefore, can't take sides. However, Griswaldo: please keep in mind that I did ask for all discussion to take place on the talk page. Why not just add your complaints to the talk page? It would have been much easier to discuss.
- I do agree that adding a NPOV tag, while slightly redundant, isn't horrible, but your intent seems to have been to stir discussion on that particular section, discussion that would be much more appropriate on the talk page.
- As for your and Snalwibma's concerns of Anupam trying to 'own' the article, I'm curious as to what you two mean; what 'delusions'?
- Also, Griswaldo, I don't think Anupam meant to insinuate you are an edit warrior (though this is just my take) - rather, they wanted to add the note that you've weighed in on discussion. m.o.p 22:10, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- your intent seems to have been to stir discussion on that particular section - No that's incorrect. I didn't add this tag, I simply reverted Anupam's attempt to own the page when he removed it. I agreed with JimWae's addition of the tag and found Anupam's removal to be unwarranted and a display of ownership.Griswaldo (talk) 22:16, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Note that, for all intents and purposes, reverting somebody is adding whatever is included in your edit, regardless of who put it there first. You revert a removal, you're agreeing with the edition you're reverting to - simple.
- And, if you agreed with JimWae, then we go back to what I was saying earlier - say so on the talk page. Two of you agree? Great! That's closer to consensus. But it means nothing if you express your support by reverting removals.
- Again, as I've asked multiple times, please stop saying that Anupam is owning anything without giving me evidence of it first. m.o.p 22:22, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Dear User:Master of Puppets, thank you for your reply to all of us. The reason User:Snalwibma stated that I was attempting to "own" the article was because I reverted an undiscussed removal from the article, which not only myself, but two other users objected to. In fact, two anonymous IP Addresses also reverted User:Snalwibma. I was open to compromise on the issue and stated that I would accept User:Turnsalso's compromise on the issue. I kindly request you to look at that discussion yourself and get an honest reading of it. Also, the only reason I removed the second NPOV tag was because there was already one present, which I did not remove. I only reverted the addition of a second NPOV tag once and even explained myself on the talk page. When I went to the talk page, I found rude accusations and an anti-collaborative spirit, despite the fact that I have been nothing but polite. I hope this helps. With regards, AnupamTalk 22:25, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry - I know I should not rise to the bait, but I have to object to the comment "The reason User:Snalwibma stated that I was attempting to 'own' the article was because I reverted an undiscussed removal ..." How dare Anupam presume to know what is in my mind! The reason I describe Anupam's attitude to the article as one of ownership is because that is how s/he behaves - "policing" every edit, pronouncing on whether s/he "accepts" or "rejects" it, peremptorily reverting anything s/he does not like, without discussion, presuming to know others' motives, and judging them as fit/unfit to contribute to the article. This has been going on for weeks, if not months. It is impossible to discuss the content of the article, let alone improve the text, because everything is filtered through the approval/disapproval of the article's self-appointed guardian, Anupam. tendentious or disruptive when they bring up certain issues, even when they are clearly in the majority. That is not collaborative. I stopped editing the article heavily because of those issues. I don't have any delusions that my opinion is worth more than anyone else's here, but I would think that the large number of established, experienced editors who are all saying there's a problem, would indicate something. — Jess· Δ♥ 19:45, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
Please reconsider your full protection of Militant atheist
- In case you didn't notice, I asked that people think twice about pointing fingers at each other. If you'd like to start a sockpuppetry investigation, let me know, and we can take that avenue - however, don't accuse other editors of ownership without substance. If you think Anupam is trying to own things, give me something. Diffs, edits, anything. I'll check it out for you, but right now, baseless accusations are not what I'm looking for.
- Also, notice that I protected the article with your edit being the last one. How is that validating the very person you've been reverting?
- The protection will stay until consensus is reached. m.o.p 22:19, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Because protection is what he wants quite clearly. He's stalling conversation and shouting down people on the talk page, where, if you have a look, you'll see he's clearly in the minority. Because of your "injunction" as he calls it, he also claims that no matter how many people agree with a certain change it is illegitimate. I'll be happy to gather some diffs, but my first message to you above was to please look into the situation carefully before acting on it. Did you do that and come to the conclusion that I'm wrong or did you not head that request? Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:29, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Yes, I did heed your request. I don't see any ownership behaviour from Anupam, though, being involved in multiple disputes, I didn't have the time to read every last word on the page, so you're free to provide evidence. However, from what I can see, Anupam's last proposal was supported by the majority - not to count (and I don't mean to imply that I decide where consensus lies by looking at pure numbers), but from looking at pure supports versus opposes, eight people (nine including Anupam) support while four oppose. How does that make Anupam's views a minority? m.o.p 22:37, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- It depends on what view you are talking about. The current RFC on the introduction is something that most people don't even want to engage because most people think this very entry should be split up and integrated into other entries. I reluctantly engaged the RfC just now myself. The last time the more serious question about the entry was asked, several of the new commentators were not around, and there was "no consensus" found because the opposing side was chalk full of SPAs and editors with a view that is outright hostile to atheism (which is a legitimate view to hold, but it is a minority view). Let me find you some diffs.Griswaldo (talk) 22:43, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- User:Griswaldo, that is exactly the issue: you do not want to collaborate with other users on the talk page, which is why you were reluctant to participate in the current RfC. Moreover, there were several SPA's on the side of the opposition as well, including WP:NPOV. In addition, the split was again recently discussed and the specific case to do so was refuted by several editors. As such, there was no consensus for it. I hope this helps. With regards, AnupamTalk 22:52, 20 September 2011 (UTC)]
- No. You are trying to write an article that violates WP:SYNTH because it conflates New Atheism with oppressive communist regimes and their histories of violence. That's hardly NPOV. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:59, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
Hi m.o.p., as someone who occasionally looks at that page (and then washes my hands), I just want to compliment you as having done the right thing in full protecting. By way of unsolicited advice to the involved editors, the best thing they could do is to allow The Wrong Version to sit there a good long time, and devote their energy to other things. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:54, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
]
Yes, please reconsider your full protection of
WP:RS—deserve protection against misinformed reverts. Thanks Geremia (talk) 16:12, 22 September 2011 (UTC)]
Diffs of
- I'm not really sure where the ownership is here; nowhere in our policies is it stated that a user can't promote their RFC on the subject talk page. If it's ongoing and they'd like to move it to the forefront, what's wrong with that? More so, some of your summaries seem inaccurate - in that last diff, you state that Anupam is removing images, yet I only see Anupam adding an image (the peace dove that's at the top of the page). Also, you use repeating examples. m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Well clearly the last diff was wrong. Thanks for the vote of confidence. There are no repeat examples nor inaccurate summaries, just a mistaken copy paste of the second to last diff to the last position as well. I have fixed it. Cheers.
- Using "consensus claims from one RfC to reject changes made to article content
- Same as above. Using the "consensus" bludgeon to get his way. Please note that clearly we ought to edit by consensus, but this consensus is highly disputed, and IMO not there in the first place. The real problem is the way in which Anupam decides to use it like a trump card to remove changes he doesn't like. Ask yourself if all changes post "consensus" have been removed or just the ones Anupam decided he wanted removed.
Master of Puppets do you need more diffs or is this enough?Griswaldo (talk) 23:31, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Well I need more diffs because your "evidence" so far looks like a desperate attempt to incriminate an editor who has been very successful in persuading his colleagues to adopt his proposals. Anupam has presented his proposals, argued the merits and persuaded many editors. Anything you want to tell us about why you're having difficulty doing likewise? – Lionel (talk) 06:02, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- I don't see this is as conclusive evidence, either. And, it should be said - if people are editing against established consensus, then people are free to re-evaluate consensus, but edit-warring against it doesn't make much sense. m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- If not ownership then what is this - [28], [29], [30]? He removes two RfCs started by another editor, and revolving around the question that many of us actually find to be the fundamental question to answer regarding the entry. Then he edit wars to keep these RfCs off the page, claiming again to have some sort of authority stemming from your prior actions. If you aren't willing to do something here I'm going to another administrator and I'm going to ask for your initial "consensus," your strong arm administrating, and your lack of action here to be reviewed as well. Thanks.Griswaldo (talk) 17:08, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Anupam has already apologized for reverting those RfC additions, and we've moved past it. He also didn't claim to have administrative authority, but was waiting for my approval. We've cleared this up, it's not an issue. So no, I'm not going to take any action (as I've said here and on ANI). Now, if you'd like to threaten me and tell me that, since I'm not cooperating with your wills, you'll go to another administrator, that's fine - as I've said, you can seek outside opinions - but remember to keep a cool head, because borderline threats are not appreciated. m.o.p 21:49, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- It was not a threat, "borderline" or otherwise. You are conveniently ignoring a growing number of voices who are all saying the same thing - there is an ownership problem here. The deletion issue has not been "cleared up" as far as I'm concerned. Whenever it is mentioned Anupam insists that he did not "unilaterally" delete the RfCs from the page, which is a blatant distortion, since that is exactly what he did. He continues to act as a policeman at the page, and yes he does continue to cite your authority. Did you bother to read the many diffs I posted above in the second two sections? I will quote three random examples from those I provided for you if you want.
- When he first deleted the two RfCs he wrote: "rv - see discussion with reviewing administrator; approval needed to start another RfC while one is already occurring."
- When he deleted a fact tag that JimWae put into the lede: "rv excessive tagging per talk; tag is already extant in header; do not subvert previous consensus but gain consensus for potential additions per administrative notice"
- When he rejected another recent change to the entry: "accepted edits by User:Jkhwiki; rv removal of longstanding referenced content - see discussion on talk page and gain consensus for action per administrative injunction"
- In talk page comments and in edit summaries he consistently does the same thing. He refers to your authority, either directly or indirectly through your "notice" or your "injunction" as he likes to call it. I never said the claimed to have administrative authority, I said that he's using your authority, by way of your comments, such as the closure of the AfD to bully people. Do you deny that he citing your comments, because if you do then I must have fabricated those quotes. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:32, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
If you say "If you don't do A, then I'm going to go and do B", that's a threat. Anyway, that's not the issue - we've already covered all the issues with the RfC reverting, and Anupam won't do it again. Why keep raising hell over it?
We've already covered everything you bring up. And no, I'm not denying anything. I'm just saying this, and it's very simple: I don't think there has been any blatant ownership here. That's my judgment. If you disagree, again, feel free to raise this with another administrator or on ANI. m.o.p 23:12, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Regarding the new RFC, I still think there has not passed yet too much time since the last discussion about splitting the article. As far as I knew, repeating these sorts of debates (like splitting, deleting, renaming) before a larger amount of time has passed (like 6 months) is usually discouraged. And as others have also argued earlier, even if having multiple RFCs is possible, it's not very useful, and the new RFC seems to discourage further discussion about improving the lead introduction. So preventing multiple RFCs (and also a RFC about an issue debated not too long ago) does not look to me like evidence of bad faith intentions. Cody7777777 (talk) 21:37, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Cody, would you mind linking me to the previous RfC on splitting? m.o.p 21:49, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- The previous attempt to split the article can be found here. Cody7777777 (talk) 21:55, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Response
Yes, it does. Thanks, m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Dear User:Master of Puppets, I just noticed that User:Binksternet started another RfC while a current one is occurring. Is this appropriate? I reverted the addition motioning for one until your response is confirmed. If it is acceptable, then I apologize and will revert my edit. I look forward to your response. With regards, AnupamTalk 15:14, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'll form my reply on ANI. m.o.p 17:12, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- When you do please take into account my comment just above, regarding Anupam's edit warring to remove talk page comments (namely these RfCs) posted by others on the talk page. If you still don't think this is WP:OWN then clearly other administrators are needed here.Griswaldo (talk) 17:15, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Dear User:Griswaldo, how is going to a neutral mediator to address the issue owning the article? I acknowledge that the article is in dispute and as a result, I am asking an administrator for advice in this matter, NOT handling things on my own, as you have done by edit warring. Your WP:OWN allegations have not only been dismissed by this administrator, but by several other users, including, User:Lionelt, User:Cody7777777 and User:NYyankees51. Thanks, AnupamTalk 17:27, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- In reply to Griswaldo: reverting the RfCs was a mistake, but we've cleared that up now. As Anupam has stated at ANI, the intent was not to discourage discussion. If you think my judgment is compromised, you're welcome to seek another administrator's input. m.o.p 21:04, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- And as further evidence of WP:OWN, see this. Anupam adds a comment to everything that anyone else says, as if he/she is the owner of the article and everyone else is a subordinate contributor. This particular instance is pretty benign (although it clutters up the talk page with an unnecessary comment that merely says "I agree"), but I do think that Anupam at least needs to learn how to avoid giving the appearance of thinking he/she owns the article, and to desist from chipping in and saying the same thing over and over again, which almost makes meaningful discussion impossible! SNALWIBMA ( talk - contribs ) 17:31, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- While the input is appreciated, as I've said before, making allegations of ownership without hard evidence isn't going to get us anywhere. Anupam is not stopping others from discussing changes or forming consensus, and that's all that matters - refactoring the talk page or commenting on an issue is not against policy, and I'm not going to tell someone to stop editing because it "looks" like they're doing something wrong. As said above, you're welcome to request another administrator's insight if you wish. m.o.p 21:04, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
COIHi
you've helped me out before, with a conflict of interest problem, so having much more experience than me on wikipedia, I thought I would be bold enough to ask again for help.
Similar problem to last, User_talk:Hobbycraft is editing the HOBBYCRAFT article and making changes that aren't citably right. I think the user name suggest and history suggests a conflict of interest case.
Can you please, speak to them addressing this issue.
Thank you very much for your help.
Markcoulter50 (talk) 22:27, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
- I've blocked that user for username violations. Thanks a lot for letting me know! Keep up the great work, m.o.p 23:00, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkbackcausa sui (talk) 18:47, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Hello. You have a new message at causa sui's talk page. causa sui (talk) 20:54, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Problematic editing on militant atheism
- I hope it's not considered defamatory to repeat the final line: "I merely present the diffs above, and let others draw their own conclusions. Is this a duck? Does it quack? You decide.". Unfortunately, the concerned community no longer has that opportunity. What did you decide on their behalf? Does this duck quack, or not? bobrayner (talk) 15:42, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- It's not your wording, it's the very idea of it. Going to what's allegorically a public place and shouting, "Hey, everybody, this man is a criminal!" is one step below blatantly forming a lynch mob. As I've said, I have no problem with your wording or evidence, just your location of choice. Wikipedia is not, unfortunately, a democracy - letting others draw their conclusions and voice their opinions is not how a sockpuppet investigation works.
- So yes, please don't go restoring any of that section. We're not discussing editors, we're discussing the content they produce. Anything else has a sub-board to deal with it (like WP:SPI).
- Hopefully that clears things up! I'll be happy to answer any more questions should you have them. Cheers, m.o.p 15:48, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Hello User:Bobrayner, I noticed the section you created on the militant atheism talk page. If you do feel the way you do about User:Turnsalso and the anonymous IP Addresses, you can take this up with WP:SPI. Thanks, AnupamTalk 15:52, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
Are you kidding my MoP? Above your write: Going to what's allegorically a public place and shouting, "Hey, everybody, this man is a criminal!" is one step below blatantly forming a lynch mob. AND We're not discussing editors, we're discussing the content they produce. Yet you call this edit by Lionelt "good faith," at WQA? MoP, I would not ask you to agree with me or to like me, but can I please ask you not to insult me with these double standards.Griswaldo (talk) 16:18, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
]
- Griswaldo, I mean no offense when I say this, but I'd appreciate it if you stayed out of discussions which didn't involve you. Also, please don't put words in my mouth. Thanks, m.o.p 16:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I have not put words in your mouth. You said that you would assume good faith about Lionel. If you "assume good faith" it means you assume his edits were in "good faith." If you did not intend that meaning I suggest you reconsider what you wrote. Also, if you want me to "stay out of discussion which don't involve me" then I suggest your first order of business should be to do the same thing yourself. You decided to post at WQA, when there was no mention of you or anything you've done in that thread. Once again, I expect people not to practice double standards. So as long as you cannot show me that you will treat me as you ask to be treated yourself, I will not oblige you. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:21, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Please stop bickering. I'm not quite sure what you're trying to accomplish here. I've already explained what I meant when I said assuming good faith, but I'll explain again: I assumed that Lionelt was not hounding or deliberately haranguing you. I did not say, at any point, that his edit content was good faith, and I've told him not to edit like that again. So please stop accusing me of saying things I haven't said.
- Also, I posted in WQA because, as a mediator in this case and as an administrator, it's my duty to weigh in on administrative noticeboards, especially when the case is an ongoing discussion I've been participating in for three months. It is not your duty to weigh in on discussions on my talk page that don't concern you. I hope the distinction is clear here. m.o.p 20:33, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I think you are confused about something. Content is never good faith. "Editing in good faith" and "good faith edits" refers to the intent of the editor always. It has nothing to do with content. My assumption that you also felt the edits were appropriate comes from the fact that you did not say they weren't appropriate and clearly feel that his intentions were good. If you'd like to set the record straight on that issue you still can. I've asked you twice now to discuss the actual edits that are the focal point of the thread. Also, I moved the thread to ANI, per the suggestion of the editor who marked it "resolved."Griswaldo (talk) 20:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- See Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#User:Lionelt_--_following_my_past_edits_to_drum_up_support_against_me. FYI, I copy pasted the entire discussion because both you and Collect were critical of my initial post and I thought it was the right thing to do to preserve that criticism in the record of the conversation. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:43, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- In reply to your first paragraph: I'm going to give up now, as it seems you're misunderstanding most of what I type, but you're the one who stated that the content was not good faith (as you said, not appropriate), and I agreed - I referred to his intent in replying to you, and said that I assumed good faith in his motives, not his replies. I can't really say that in a clearer way, so my apologies if it's hard to understand. Also, as I've already said, I've left a message for Lionelt about his edits, so clearly I do not feel they're appropriate. m.o.p 20:57, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I, too, find these double standards vexing.
- Which diff is defamatory?
- I had hitherto thought that people on the article talkpage might like to be aware of potential problems with votestacking on the article talkpage (and 3rr evasion, of course). Would it be permitted to add a link to that list of diffs when it's in a different place, or would you consider that defamatory too? bobrayner (talk) 16:23, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- As I said, the information is not defamatory, but the way it's presented is - we have specific processes available to pursue should one feel there are sockpuppets about. However, calling someone out with the intent of informing the community is overstepping your authority and damaging to the accused's character. Also, there's no way a community discussion about whether or not one editor is a sockpuppet can end in anything other than a sockpuppet investigation anyway.
- So, in closing, please don't bring issues like this to the talk page. If you're concerned about votestacking, take it to the appropriate venue - if your concerns are validated, we'll take measures against said puppets. Cheers, m.o.p 16:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I am very disappointed that it's no longer permissible to raise problems with article-editing on the article talkpage. Previous concerns about sockpuppetry were simply ignored; the difference this time is that it's backed by lots of diffs.
- I'm fairly confident that the people concerned have sufficient technical nous to make checkuser draw a blank. And, let's be entirely honest, within minutes of me creating an SPI, an admin of the right persuasion will be getting an email suggesting that an SPI needs their attention. And SPI does not see offsite coordination by a facebook group &c. Finally, any null result at SPI will be used at the article in much the same way as previous administrative decisions have been. So, I do not believe that an SPI will improve either the article, or the encyclopædia as a whole. bobrayner (talk) 17:08, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- If you don't think the pre-existing methods set in place for situations like this are sufficient, you can always raise that concern at the village pump or suggest a policy revision - however, SPI is the venue for these requests, and the only venue. The talk page can not substitute. m.o.p 17:10, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
76.228.226.122Thank you for blocking the anonymous user, who is being counterproductive and rude. (although I think the block should have been one week, but I guess ok at least)
Can you also please try to hide the edit summaries of these edits if possible?
This and
this
Thanks and regards, talk 05:04, 26 September 2011 (UTC)]
- I'll extend the block if this behaviour continues after the block period is over.
- As for the edit summaries, those don't warrant hiding - I apologize for their content, but they don't meet the criteria of what I should remove. It's best just to ignore them for now. Cheers, m.o.p 05:13, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
- Okay, good to know, if I did nothing wrong, no permanent block will be enforced. The IP does not volunteer on WP as an admin and so the disproportionately out of line comments and threats of his should be ignored. --talk 05:19, 26 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Sounds good. We only hide extremely offensive revisions; milder ones stay in the edit history. Thanks again for bringing this to our attention! Cheers, m.o.p 05:31, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
Email
Jasper Deng (talk) 05:29, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
- Reading. talk) 06:00, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Bad Girls Club
- I've blocked Junebea for 2 days for disregarding warnings. m.o.p 20:30, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks for helping :) Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 21:06, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkback
- And again.Griswaldo (talk) 04:24, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
- And again ... but maybe the last. You can settle this question once and for all. See the talk page.Griswaldo (talk) 06:09, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'm sure I'm not alone in wanting to hear your replies to the last responses posed to you at that page. IMO, I don't know why you went down the road you did, but as far as I can tell you're blatantly misrepesenting facts about your own actions when people are brining concerns to you. You might think that since you closed the RfC the matter is settled, but it is not. You're actions have not made my life any more pleasant in the last few days vis-a-vis trying to deal with Anupam's disruption and I think you owe us all answers. So please revisit this thread and deal with the open questions. Thanks.Griswaldo (talk) 02:19, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
- I invite you to stop asking the same question again and again. This would be appreciated. Thanks, m.o.p 02:33, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Block question
- No, I just block obviously bad-faith accounts on sight. Advertising/spam accounts fall under that category. m.o.p 00:37, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Thanks
- Thank you. I've unlocked the article for whatever may come. If I'm needed again, feel free to let me know. Thanks for the kind words again, m.o.p 05:12, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
reminder
- We're still waiting to see if the user understands COI policy (per Ed's question). I'll prod the user and see if they'll answer. talk) 19:20, 30 September 2011 (UTC)]
Nextel logo deleted
- Mmm, good point. What's the link to the logo in question? m.o.p 01:33, 2 October 2011 (UTC)
Support of Sage City SymphonyYou deleted this page before I had a chance to go back in and add the stuff that you wanted to see, including the links within Wikipedia to important composers such as Lou Callabro (who started this orchestra and cites it in his Wikipedia page) and Susan Hurley whose work we premiered (SC is also mentioned in her Wikipedia entry). (Let alone links about the works we have performed.) And we have a web site at www.sagecitysymphony.org, have existed for over 35 yrs and are a significant cultural resource in the Bennington area such that we receive grants from local, statewide and national foundations.
I broke my wrist last weekend and am doing one-handed pecking so it'll take me a few days to get that loaded in. We are going out for a bit now, but I would appreciate your undeleting the page so that I don't have to re-invent the starting part when I go back in tomorrow to add links. Or delete it entirely so that I can start fresh - at this point either would work as long as I can start some serious work on it tomorrow. I am the webmaster by the way, so I do have access to content and more links.
Thank you, Celia Murray — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.228.127.119 (talk) 14:22, 1 October 2011 (UTC)
- It looks like fixed everything up. Best of luck, m.o.p 01:35, 2 October 2011 (UTC)]
Reply on Deterence's talk page
MA
After the beating you took you deserve a cold one--on me! Thanks for being fair and balanced – Lionel (talk) 03:55, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
- Hey, thanks! Glad to help out. :) m.o.p 03:56, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
Deletion of Mau5trap Recordings
--neocharles (talk) 07:33, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Existence does not equal notability - the subject has to be notable to get a Wikipedia page. m.o.p 12:05, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
Questoin re: AIV
- Addendum, actually, I read it very clearly in WP:VANDNOT: "Uploading or using material on Wikipedia in violation of Wikipedia's copyright policies is prohibited, but is not vandalism unless the user does so maliciously or fails to heed warnings." So if a person fails to heed warnings it is vandalism. My mistake here was that I only warned once. --Muhandes (talk) 12:29, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Eh, technically it is vandalism, but the user seems to be trying to improve the Wikipedia - that desire to help is misplaced in this case, as they seem to think that using copyrighted content is actually better. Weird. For most cases, yes, you should report copyvio to AIV - as long as they've been warned sufficiently. m.o.p 12:42, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- OK, he now did it again and the time stamp is after your last warning. Is it vandalism now? --Muhandes (talk) 12:32, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Yeah, if they're outright ignoring warnings. I've blocked for three days. m.o.p 12:40, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
Classmusic
- Oh, I know. But if somebody's lied to my face about using another account - and to other editors working on the article - I'm not about to let them go without a repercussion or two. I'd like Almost-instinct and Voceditnore to look over the article and fix up anything shifty. Also, I'd like Classmusic to respond to my warning, instead of blanking it and ignoring like they have to the above-named editors.
- So, in short, I know that COI doesn't bar editing, but it's enough of a concern that, given the user's recent behaviour, I'll stop them from doing anything until we've figured things out. This isn't too rouge-y, is it? I didn't hear that. Perhaps he is unaware of the sockpuppet investigation findings. Anyhow it seems that DeltaQuad has also blocked the Classmusic account. I left a note on his page about using the unblock template, but re-iterated that he needs to read the COI and Autobiography guidelines and stick to them scrupulously, if he gets unblocked. In the Opera and Classical Music WikiProjects, we get a lot of articles for performers, ensembles, etc. created by their agents and PR people, and often themselves. In my experience, the best I can hope for after one of these tussles is that they'll edit their article according to the guidelines in future. I have yet to find a single one who has ever contributed anything else to Wikipedia. Their only interest in the project is as a PR tool. Having said that, at least it results (after much red-pencilling from other editors) in one new article on a notable subject that we didn't have before and in a small way redresses the pop culture systemic bias here. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 13:40, 5 October 2011 (UTC)]
Danish election
- Never mind, it's been pulled by another admin. All the best, Jenks24 (talk) 11:03, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry about that! I was busy all day and didn't get your message until now. Thanks for letting me know, though! Cheers, m.o.p 19:51, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
3RRHey there! :)
Well WP:CRYSTAL has wined down, however, there's currently a
The Bad Girls Club (season 7). I have notified the two users [32], [33]. The evidence can be found here. They are having an edit-conflict on how the "Duration of cast" should be presented. Since there's no rules regarding anything like that, and it was made up about a year ago, I couldn't warned them to stop their e/c with anything except the 3RR rule. Maybe they need an admin to tell them to stop, so that's why I came to you :) Thanks, Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 01:17, 6 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Temporary page protection requested. Calabe1992 (talk) 01:29, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
Protect my talk page
- Lately, this IP also misused the edit war template on my talk page.Jasper Deng (talk) 00:37, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
Block an IP
E-Mail
nice guyhiii master of puppets,
ok do u know the movie Twilght saga ?
rply me back i want 2 talk 2 u a lot because i like ur pesonalty.BY
talk) 11:58, 28 April 2011 (UTC)]
File source problem with File:MoPuppetarmy.pngThank you for uploading File:MoPuppetarmy.png. I noticed that the file's description page currently doesn't specify who created the content, so the copyright status is unclear. If you did not create this file yourself, you will need to specify the owner of the copyright. If you obtained it from a website, please add a link to the website from which it was taken, together with a brief restatement of that website's terms of use of its content. However, if the copyright holder is a party unaffiliated from the website's publisher, that copyright should also be acknowledged.
If you have uploaded other files, consider verifying that you have specified sources for those files as well. You can find a list of files you have created in your upload log. Unsourced and untagged images may be deleted one week after they have been tagged per Wikipedia's criteria for speedy deletion, F4. If the image is copyrighted and non-free, the image will be deleted 48 hours after 11:44, 11 May 2011 (UTC) per speedy deletion criterion F7. If the file is already gone, you can still make a request for undeletion and ask for a chance to fix the problem. You may wish to read the Wikipedia's image use policy. If you have any questions or are in need of assistance please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. Magog the Ogre (talk) 11:44, 11 May 2011 (UTC)
The Deputy
- Thanks for your reply. My concern was not that Jayjg indicated he would rewrite and did not do so, but that he had agreed to allow more of the disputed section in the article rather than a dismissive sentence or two, but when editors began to delete the entire section based on frivolous reasons, he supported it. It appears now that we have, or are in the process of reaching a resolution. The section is now in the article, reduced substantially to account of Jayjg's concers about undue weight. Mamalujo (talk) 18:40, 27 May 2011 (UTC)
Carla Rushing page deletion
Any further discussion of Sarah Palin will result in a warning, and then a temporary block. Thank you!Hmmm, that might be just a tad excessive. We don't want to suppress all discussion, because that's when the pressure has nowhere to go, and people will go and meatball:ExpandScope.
Since scope is already expanded to international media, forcing scope to expand further might be a bit of a Bad Idea (tm). I recommend Not Going There.
If we're really intent on keeping discussions off of WP, we can always create a wikinews article, and link to the "discuss this article" page.
However, at the moment, people seem to be keeping it down to a dull roar anyway.
--Kim Bruning (talk) 22:44, 6 June 2011 (UTC)
- I think you caught my side point, but I'd like to stress the part I'm trying to tell you to watch out for!
- Long term empirical experience shows that attempts to curtail discussion on wikipedia will not slow down the internet discussion elsewhere (or even on wikipedia). Instead, that's exactly what will feed it more and more steam. So Don't Do That.
- Experience shows that the following approaches work:
- Try to centralize all (spurious) discussion in one place
- keep it as focused on encyclopedic work as possible.
- Treat the new users like new users. They don't know our rules yet. Teach them!
- The foundation would like to see us be more welcoming towards new users. That's a good idea! Let's do that.
- --Kim Bruning (talk) 00:26, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
- And... it went to AN/I (see below) --Kim Bruning (talk) 01:33, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
Edit Notice on Paul RevereYou seem to be asserting some admin right to quench discussion on the talk page by blocking and/or warning with the editnotice that I don't think we have, by policy. IAR doesn't cover stomping on people, no matter how annoying a particular conversation is.
Kelly started a
WP:ANI discussion on this.
Followups probably best on ANI as I am sure others will want to comment. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 01:15, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
- On review - I'm going to blank the edit notice now. If an ANI consensus develops to support restoring it then I'll not object at all, but I think it's novel and enough of a stretch that the default should be "no" unless consensus develops otherwise. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 01:19, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
How does a user find a mentor?
Helen Lucy Burke
Talkback
I did what you asked but the IP reverted it again. PTJoshua (talk) 21:09, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
- You're removing everything I say. Please don't do this. It isn't helpful. --86.45.75.42 (talk) 21:19, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
- I'll talk to them. Sit tight for a second. m.o.p 21:10, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
RE: Deletion of 48gogreen page :ApalejaHello,
Thank you for quick response. I appreciate your reason. but if you do some research you'll find more then 4 or 5 substantial mentions in local or international media - in a newspaper, on a notable website, etc. - to put forward this article.
There is a link on official website of company. http://www.48gogreen.com/static/web
Looking forward for your response. thank you in advance to undelete article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Apaleja (talk • contribs) 08:03, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
Here are some articles from International Press (you can use Google translator-if you use chrome it'll provide option immediately):
http://www.regione.emilia-romagna.it/wcm/cinema/sezioni_primopiano/PrimoPiano/Gadoev.htm
http://domani.arcoiris.tv/girano-un-corto-in-48-ore-e-arrivano-dritti-a-cannes/
http://www.close-up.it/spip.php?article6724
http://www.flashvideo.it/news/9/2578/
http://www.radioemiliaromagna.it/cultura/cinema/videomaker_bolognesi_cannes_corto_ecologico.aspx
Also if YOU HAD READ careful our site you should have see the Press link (those are press links not blogs) with all these web press: http://www.48gogreen.com/static/web
Thank you — Preceding unsigned comment added by Apaleja (talk • contribs) 08:22, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
Final warning On Edit Warring of Efik language disputeIf My Reporting a false article is the reason you want to block me. Then Go ahead and BLOCK me.- I can be Block because I don't care to be part of a web/Encyclopedia of Lies! Although I have contributed anonymously to wikipedia since 2008, I only just signed on a few weeks ago to report an error that I thought was made. But you and your other BIASED administrators have refused to fix this error, instead you're all threatening to block me.
- : According to Wikipedia A false statement/article is removed immediatley it is realized. Yet as am reporting it you all are threatening me for causing disruption.
- You all are saying that I called I called Kwami Slow, Dumb etc. Yet Kwami used the words Ignorance first.
"As for Ukwa, your ignorance is not evidence of anything".
- What is the meaning of IGNORANCE? S/He also said;
"But we cannot have the same article under two names, nor an article on Ibibio-Efik that does not include Ibibio, nor an article on Efik that does not include Efik. A little common sense would be helpful."
- What is meaning of Common sense? Or because Kwami put it very nicely, and mine wasn't? Also I wasn't blanking the Efik page, since I just signed on it takes me a long while to write up an article. According to the statements above, Kwami said I could develop articles on Efik and Ibibio, that is what I was doing when you or your other BIASED administrators returned the articles back to the re-direct.
- : Since wikipedia says a false statement is fixed immediately it is reported, I explained out the mistakes, but Kwami kept insisting that me a native who speaks these languages was wrong and asked for sources. I provided the sources and Kwami Called A brilliant Historian who is a Million times more knowledgable than Kwami on the language;
"utterly ignorant AND not some random idiot who posted a web page".
- Yet you and your other Biased colleges are claiming that am the one attacking Kwami and causing a disruption.
- : Am done with Wikipedia, am going to be taking this issues to the Founder/head by email, once the Ibibio union are involved it might become a legal matter if Wikipedia still continues to portray this misleading information.
I will take this matter to the heads by Email first because they might not be aware of what you all supposed administrators are doing to their image. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ibibiogrl (talk • contribs) 21:41, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
Hi Mops,
Pls read my comments on the ANI page. I think Ibibiogrl means well, she just needs some guidance, and she's not willing to take it from me. — kwami (talk) 22:17, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
- Obviously we would like to have contributors from that part of the world, but Ibibiogrl's record here is so unpromising that I think we need good assurances that something will change in the future. (I would welcome any evidence that Ibibiogrl means well. It is hard to improve the encyclopedia when you have no interest in or respect for its policies. Read her statement above if you are uncertain about that). Mentorship has value only for someone who understands that something has gone wrong and would be willing to work with a mentor. EdJohnston (talk) 22:46, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
- I agree with Ed in this case - I have no grudge against Ibibiogrl, but the editor's attitude, despite multiple pleas for otherwise, remained combative and even insulting at points. If there's a serious expression of guilt and the editor decides they'd like to walk a different path, I'd be happy to help. However, as it is now, I believe the block should stand. m.o.p 22:52, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
- I agree that it would require some indication that she wants help. Just my 2¢ as the person she's most upset with. — kwami (talk) 23:05, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
- For the record, your input is highly appreciated, and very admirable; as the editor in conflict with her, I respect your neutrality and helpfulness. As for Ibibiogrl, we'll see where that goes. Cheers! m.o.p 00:59, 17 June 2011 (UTC)
Can you adopt me i want a new adopter.
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Mr. Pit (2nd nomination)
This isn't personalI belive the AFD on Campaign for "santorum" neologism was closed way to early and am contesting your close.
An editor has asked for a deletion review of Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2011 June 21. Because you closed the deletion discussion for this page, speedily deleted it, or otherwise were interested in the page, you might want to participate in the deletion review. KoshVorlon' Naluboutes Aeria Gloris 12:17, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
James Ball
Thank you for your concern. But I will not be blocked - _I am adding_ wikipedia to adblock. I also feel regret for having donated to the site before, but this will not happen again. Demonuminon (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 23:25, 23 June 2011 (UTC).
Thomas James BallWhy the hell did you delete his page?
Does his suffering mean nothing to you?
Heartless bitch. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.57.206.141 (talk • contribs)
Hey, Master of Puppets, OBVIOUSLY there is a public interested in keeping this article. Restore your deletion. Look at the massive flood of comments regarding your deletion here: http://www.<linkremoved>.com/2011/06/24/the-organized-silencing-of-a-man-publicly-burned-to-death/ and here http://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/i81rw/the_organized_silencing_of_a_man_publicly_burned/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Romerom (talk • contribs) 20:05, 24 June 2011 (UTC)
- Ball HIT A FOUR-YEAR-OLD CHILD, refused to pay child support, called for insurrection, demanded terrorism and violence as a solution, ultimately killed himself (leaving his children without a father) and damaged public property in the process. Even after all that, his incoherent message has mostly been ignored except by the less discriminating people claiming to speak for "men's rights" who haven't bothered to look into the details of his case. (If you really want to damage your cause, adopt a grown man who hits his own four-year-old child and flakes out on his child support as your poster boy.) --Orange Mike | Talk 20:26, 24 June 2011 (UTC) (proud father who has never hit his child in his lifetime)
Hey, "proud father who never hit his child in his lifetime", not everybody is against disciplining their children by spanking. He said his daughter was licking his hand, and he had told her repeatedly to stop. She didn't, and he smacked her. He didn't punch her, or send her to the hospital, or cause any serious injury. Just enough to have his wife baited into calling the police on him by child protective services. As for child support, he paid his child support until the point where he wasn't able to afford it due to an employment issue. Is that such a crazy thing to have happen? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.211.155.1 (talk) 04:28, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
- Again, while I do sympathize with the family and supporters, I am not taking sides, nor do I have any bias in this situation. I am not a feminist, nor am I a misogynist - I am fair and neutral towards all people, whether they be abusive fathers or abused fathers.
- This deletion was enforced solely in keeping with Wikipedia's long-established policies. Mr. Ball's death, while indeed tragic, was not reported throughout the reliable media enough to show his notability.
- I hope this makes sense to all those saddened by Mr. Ball's passing. Cheers, m.o.p 21:04, 24 June 2011 (UTC)
- I understand that you do not think that Mr. Ball's death is something that qualifies as an event and thus deleted said article. I disagree but I do see the merits of your argument. However, you claim to be unbiased in this debate and yet for someone who judges on the letter of the law you break the law and close debate 2.5 days before final judgment is to be rendered. If you have no corner then I ask why make this article a special case that it must be quelled , by your own admission, 2.5 days before any other articles found in similar circumstances are voted upon. I petition you to reinstate and allow the normal course of the discussion continue for the 2.5 days, allow the full opportunity for the pro side to make their case then recluse yourself from the final judgment. This is the only way to ensure transparency so that your claim of neutrality can be believed. CaffOMHW (talk) 03:28, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
- Ahead of things, let me tell you that I appreciate the civility.
- Wikipedia's policies aren't law - they're guidelines. As an administrator, it's my job to apply policy in a way that is completely devoid of bias and benefits the encyclopedia as a whole.
- On a side note, the deletion nomination was closed 1.5 days before the normal time. The page had a whole work week to be saved, rewritten or reworked; however, due to the lack of outside sourcing that carried reliability, there was nothing to keep that wasn't editorialized or unencyclopedic. I would also like to point out that almost every account that voiced their opinion in the 'keep' spectrum had either only edited that page or had edited very little aside from the page. Meanwhile, the deletion argument was put forward by experienced users.
- Though I understand that some people take offense to my early closure, I assure them that one extra day would not have yielded success, and that I took many factors into consideration before closing the discussion.
- Again, thank you for the civility, but I won't be overturning judgment or recreating a deletion discussion at this date. m.o.p 08:17, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
ITNthx for the 2 quick updates of my nom ;)
but also can you see the bolivia one. its got support and very nearly out of the news. we could tack it nearer the border.Lihaas (talk) 22:26, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
Ball closure.
Thank God you are an ambassador for WP, and against censorship, MoP. When Wikipedia fails, and it eventually will, it will largely be because most people don't like to be gamed and would rather not read well cultivated information that is maintained by dishonest brokers who hide behind rules that are never applied in an even-handed manner. The idea that a story is not relevant merely because it is not yet encyclopedic is ridiculous when one sees all the articles which linger on for months or years in the same state. The idea that a story is not relevant because the motivations/justifications of the user are suspect would be grounds for eliminating half the biographical articles in WP. It smacks of an agenda. The appearance of impropriety is as bad as actual impropriety.173.78.20.96 (talk) 04:51, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
- I appreciate the feedback.
- I do my best to maintain an equal, proportionate response in all dealings on Wikipedia; I don't defend things I like, or attack things I dislike, just for the reason of screwing with people. That strikes me as childish. Instead, the most I can do is try to help others understand Wikipedia policies, which are generally mind-bending and hard to grasp (for example, most people ask, "What's the reasoning a war hero isn't considered notable when Donkey Kong is?").
- Maybe one day the policies will change. I mean, most of these were written five, six year ago - the world's changing, and I expect they will with time. But, for now, the guidelines handle what comes in.
- Again, thanks for the input. I appreciate not being personally attacked - it makes it easier to reply. Cheers, m.o.p 05:08, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Natami (2nd nomination)
- The close was thoroughly thought-out, so there's not much ground for me to explore that I haven't already. If you're set on going to DRV, there's nothing I can say which will change your mind, and it's your right to ask for a review. However, current consensus sits at delete (unless the 'keep' side is hiding an ace-in-the-hole reliable source or something). Cheers, m.o.p 04:55, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- So, what about the reliable sources we already brought up in the AfD such as this interview in Amiga Future or this news article from nr2.ru? We've already established that Amiga Future isn't sponsored by a hardware company as one !voter there falsely claimed. On a related note, did you discount the !votes from individuals making misleading statements or those claiming there were "no independent reliable sources"? (I could tell you how that !voter happened to show up there, but he isn't going to like it.) I could also link to forum posts by another delete !voter who showed up there who was very much into a "delete at any cost" mode because he doesn't like "amiga clones". --Tothwolf (talk) 05:11, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- Those sources were there before the previous close, and I, like the previous administrator, do not think they're strong enough.
- I've already covered what kind of rationale was discounted and what wasn't.
- As for your last statement about other editors - I'm not quite sure what your point is, but I don't think it's relevant. As I said, I've discounted any rationale that does not apply policy.
- Cheers, m.o.p 05:33, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- Uh, no...nr2.ru was only brought up in the second AfD. Strong enough is also an argument to be made in a !vote, not a closing statement. --Tothwolf (talk) 05:56, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- My apologies, the Russian source was indeed added after the first AfD. Still too shaky for a stand-alone article, though. Cheers, m.o.p 13:42, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- To follow up on my earlier comment, while I don't really want to get into an "X did this because of Y" sort of thing with regards to this AfD, there were a number of delete !voters who showed up there for personal reasons/vendettas/bias and/or who made false statements about sources. Despite the template at the top of the AfD, the second AfD also didn't suffer from the forum canvassing that the first did. One of the delete !voters actually came by way of the forum and first AfD and was trolling because of his personal dislike of Amiga clones. --Tothwolf (talk) 15:33, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
If they have valid, policy-based rationale, their personal motivation doesn't matter, solely for the reason that an encyclopedia based on liking or disliking things would crumble instantly. I'm sure some of the deletion crew could just-as-easily blame keep voters for being enthusiasts and fans of Natami - but that's not important. As a result, making allegations of personal bias is unnecessary. The help is appreciated, but there's nothing I can do with the information. m.o.p 15:39, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- It matters when someone makes false statements and tries to hide what they are doing behind policy. As for keeps, quite a number appear to be from well established editors who don't appear to be all that interested in Amiga topics. As for myself, I wasn't even aware of NatAmi until the first AfD and didn't even !vote in the first AfD since I thought it was pretty obvious it was headed for a no-consensus close. --Tothwolf (talk) 15:58, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- Again, if their rationale is grounded in policy, their motivation does not matter, simply because it's impossible to discern someone's intent through text, and because the second someone accuses another of favoritism/malicious intent the entire argument turns into a bunch of people shouting, "You're lying." That's why there's nothing I can do with your information in this case. Cheers, m.o.p 16:02, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- Apologies to you, M.O.P., for addressing another editor on your talk page, but I just wanted to jump in this conversation. Tothwolf, with no prejudice against you at all I strongly suggest you take this in perspective. There have been two AFDs and an ANI report over this article. The way you treated me on my talk page threatening DRV because I was a new administrator was, as I feel it, borderline harassing. That you canvassed two other administrators to talk to me was also a below the belt move. In good faith, I relisted the debate and it has closed again as delete. I strongly suggest taking the advice at WP:DGAF into account here and let the issue go. I don't think there will be a problem recreating this article, even pulling the old content back from the deletion log, when the subject has better sources in a broader community. I hold no ill feeling toward you, this is purely honest advice.--v/r - TP 16:46, 27 June 2011 (UTC)]
- TParis, while you are correct in that this talk page is not the place for this, because you brought this up here and you seem to value honest feedback, I'll address this here.
In no way did I ever threaten you with DRV, let alone because you were a new administrator (discussion in question). I did however upon noticing that you had passed RFA only days earlier decide it best not to press you further in public and instead sent you this short email: "Sigh. I just noticed you just finished your RFA. The Natami AfD was a bad AfD to pick to close right out of the gate. It is likely to end up at DRV and given the magazine I mentioned, overturned. I really wish you would reconsider your close. You might have noticed I didn't even !vote in the AfD itself, however I did point out a number of things and took a couple of people to task for making false or misleading statements." That is the only email I sent you about the matter and not once did I ever threaten you with DRV. Please get your facts correct before making statements such as this because such mistakes can have a negative effect on others.
After you replied expressing your disagreement over the sources (and implied that I might be biased because I sometimes contribute to computing-related articles) I asked a number of other administrators (way more than two, actually) what they thought of the AfD's close because I wanted unbiased feedback to see if I was somehow totally off-track before I initiated a DRV. The feedback I got was fairly unanimous in that the close was problematic. Before I had a chance to draft a DRV however, you reverted your own close and relisted the AfD from scratch with a new listing. In no way did I ever "canvass" anyone to "talk to you" and if others did contact you directly, they did so at their own discretion and for their own reasons.
There indeed have been two AfDs, the first of which you closed (although one could also argue that the second was merely a relist of the first). The AN/I "discussion" you also mentioned wasn't really over this article or the first AfD, it was an attempt by someone to game AN/I when they were unable to bully me on their talk page. Please be more careful making these sort of blanket statements in the future because as I mentioned above such statements can cause problems for others. --Tothwolf (talk) 17:38, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- You're email was exactly like your reply here. You like to make threats without actually making them: "such statements can cause problems". There is very little way your email cannot be interpreted as anything other than a threat of DRV because I am a new administrator. This is all I'll say on M.O.P.'s talk page as I came here to offer honest advice and you don't seem interested in it. If you'd like to discuss further with me, you know where to find my talk page.--v/r - TP 17:51, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- TParis, in no way did I ever make an implied threat. While I may be a little blunt and abrasive at times (or maybe I'm just an assume good faith in that you simply misremembered the facts I outlined above when you made this statement here. It is easy to forget a few details here or there and not everyone maintains detailed notes for this sort of stuff (I do, for a number of reasons, although I didn't always).
As far as honest advice goes, this is a two-way street and I gave you my opinion as well. If you choose to ignore and discount it, so be it, but I'd suggest you be much more careful in the future and get your facts correct before you make the sort of statement you made above. Such statements can and do cause problems for other editors. Who knows, it may just be that you've not been around long enough yet to have witnessed people blocked or punished in some way because someone else didn't have their facts together. (If you do decide you want to continue this discussion, perhaps we should take this elsewhere.) --Tothwolf (talk) 18:14, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
]
Heaton Park Hebrew Congregation (2nd nomination)
Natami
Thought you might want to know
- (talk page stalker) That's just the same little ideological website which has been pushing for the "Martyrdom of St. Thomas Ball" attention since day one; no actual new coverage. --Orange Mike | Talk 14:34, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
- I guess I should also mention that the way I found it, was that someone tried submitting it to Fark.com last night. The admins did not greenlight it, so that particular submission/thread did not go to the main Fark page, appearing only to those with Totalfark accounts. The submission said something like "Wikipedia deletes burning man" (I'm not at a computer with TF access so I might not have that exactly right). It might, theoretically, based on the submission, be considered some sort of off-site canvassing (it was submitted with the asinine tag). For what its worth, the thread went uncommented, so I don't think that particular attempt garnered any support. I just wanted to drop a line in case that this was just the first drop of a large storm. If I see anything else, I'll drop a line here. Umbralcorax (talk) 15:58, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
Wiki ad
4chan raid
Thomas James Bell, new information
- (reliable sources. --Orange Mike | Talk 13:33, 30 June 2011 (UTC)]
Happy Birthday
![](//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3d/Nuvola_apps_cookie.svg/50px-Nuvola_apps_cookie.svg.png)
Just a happy Birthday message to you, Master of Puppets, from the Wikipedia Birthday Committee! Have a great day!
Monterey Bay (talk) 02:00, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
User:BillyMoses
Natami
AFD
- Your input is appreciated, though there's nothing I can do with it but take a note. If you'd like, you can weigh in at the next AfD(s), when/if they arise. Cheers, m.o.p 19:42, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
Dr Myko San – Health from Mushrooms
- I'd be happy to help! However, I'm currently away from a computer (typing this on my phone), so I'll have to check in on the 11th of July. Does that sound okay? m.o.p 15:40, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
- wp:NODEADLINE :-) LeadSongDog come howl! 15:48, 7 July 2011 (UTC)]
From a former Wikipedian
-71.234.90.0 (talk) 04:50, 8 July 2011 (UTC)
- Hey, thanks so much! I'm not sure who you are, but I really appreciate the sentiment. Hope all is well! m.o.p 20:49, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
Deletion review for Thomas James Ball
DRV comment
DRV
Could you please overturn the deletion of these files per File:Signature of Amitabh Bachchan.svg and File:Signature of Zakir Hussain.svg:
- File:Signature of Vishwanathan Anand.svg
- File:Signature of Vijay Mallya.svg
- File:Signature of Venkaiah Naidu.svg
- File:Signature of Sudeep Bandhopadhyay.svg
- File:Signature of Sonia Gandhi.svg
- File:Signature of Somnath Chatterjee.svg
- File:Signature of Ratan Tata.svg
- File:Signature of Kumar Mangalam Birla.svg
- File:Signature of Rajeev Shukla.svg
- File:Signature of Raj Babbar.svg
- File:Signature of Rahul Gandhi.svg
- File:Signature of Priyanka Vadra.svg
- File:Signature of P. T. Usha.svg
- File:Signature of Narendra Modi.svg
- File:Signature of Nandan Nilekani.svg
- File:Signature of Manish Tewari.svg
- File:Signature of Leander Paes.svg
- File:Signature of Lata Mangeshkar.svg
- File:Signature of Kumar Mangalam Birla.svg
- File:Signature of Karia Munda.svg
- File:Signature of Kapil Sibal.svg
- File:Signature of Kamal Nath.svg
- File:Signature of K. Kamraj.svg
- File:Signature of Jaya Bachchan.svg
- File:Signature of Gautam Gambhir.svg
- File:Signature of Brinda Karat.svg
- File:Signature of Bharatsinh Solanki.svg
- File:Signature of Bhairon Singh Shekhawat.svg
- File:Signature of B. K. Birla.svg
- File:Signature of Azim Premji.svg
- File:Signature of Arun Jaitely.svg
- File:Signature of Aishwarya Rai Bachchan.svg
- File:Signature of Abhishek Manu Singhvi.svg
- File:Signature of Abhishek Bachchan.svg
- File:Signature of Sting.svg
- File:Signature of Br. L. D. Lobo.svg
- File:Signature of VJ Rannvijay Singh Singha.svg
Diligent07Appears to be less than new. See User talk:Raoulduke25 where he states that this is a deliberate series of edits.
- Can you please help defend our collective effort of including the obscene middle-finger incident in the Cheney Mason article? It should be maintained in the article for public interest, etc. Please see the Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard#Cheney Mason discussion page and include your thoughts in favor of having the content remain in the interests of the public, etc
[8], [9] and even imputation that an editor has a connection with the person [10]. He has been on since April, and started off as being experienced on WP IMHO. Kindly keep an eye out please. Especially for any sign of a real "collective effort"? Such as [11]? Cheers. Collect (talk) 11:36, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
A cookie for you!
Keep up the good work defending the "Wiki" against genre warriors. Thanks for the help! talk) 17:31, 13 July 2011 (UTC)]
Hello. You have a new message at Lionelt's talk page.
Semi protection
OK, this thing with the militant atheism page is impossibleThese guys are incredible... I could dig up diffs to show you how they revert and wikilawyer even the SMALLEST attempt to move the article closer to NPOV. But that would take a long time for you to read. How about I show you this instead:
These guys are utterly without scruples. Who in their right mind would remove the NPOV dispute tag when heated arguments have been raging for weeks and NO moves whatsoever have been made to fix the article? Oh right, that would be someone in their right mind who is running a propaganda platform.
Anyway... I wanted to ask your advice on what to do. These guys are impossible to work with. Most of the other editors have given up and refuse to put this page on their watchlist. So what to do then? Request formal mediation? Articles for deletion? Something else?
Me and the other editors would like to see the page replaced with a disambiguation page... since literally ALL the content has already been covered (better) in Criticism of atheism, State atheism and New Atheism.
Obhave (talk) 13:21, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
- Hello User:Master of Puppets. I noticed this conversation and thought I might add that an NPOV policy. Obhave (talk) 13:11, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
- One more thing, m.o.p... my opponents are currently twisting your words to make it look as if you were scolding user:Mann_jess all along. Obhave (talk) 14:42, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
]
User:Jasper Deng page protection
- No worries! m.o.p 19:35, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
Is there a procedure for brutal uncollaborated editing with a destructive intent?I noticed that you recently had problems with proposed brutal editing by Peter S Strempel. Although he has been more sensible on your project in the end (possibly because of your administrator status?) he has not been so with regard to the astrology project pages to which he made a similar 'razor-promise'. Could you please see this Afd request which is one of three he made for major 'history of astrology' articles within the last hour, with a promise on another important page that any comment which is not refrences within 7 days will be removed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Babylonian_astrology
Is there anything that can be done about this officially to stop him wreaking havoc with content whilst he knows that the small group of editors providing content on these pages are already stretched to the limit trying to keep up with what needs to be done? I don't understand what drives some people to want to edit WP like this, but I think it is entriely the result of his ego-stress that when he proposed an edit for a passage, no one favoured it. Hope you can help or advise Zac Δ talk 01:15, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks! assume good faith; I believe that Peter is simply trying to help improve Wikipedia. While his methods may be lacking in some areas, he has displayed a pretty decent grasp on the policies he's trying to enforce.
- However, I agree that he shouldn't be making any changes if they're not discussed with the community first. Do you mind pulling up a few diffs of where he went against consensus? I'll approach him with your concern then. Thanks, m.o.p 03:57, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
- Actually there hasn't been any significant content dispute with Peter. He proposed a change to a section edit which wasn't a very good proposition and a few editors commented but without rancur, and I added a new section post immediately afterwards to point out the proiposed change would contradict with how the definition was given correctly at a later point in the article, outlining how I understood WP policy expected the main astrology article to pull its own content together, along with its summarised content from its daughter pages. Peter never responded to this but other editors started working in that direction immediately. Then, without further discussion or comment, Peter came back four days later to announce an intention to take his 'word razor' to all unreferenced assertions on the main astrology page, its sub-pages, and the portal page itself, to ensure his perceived disagreement was not circumvented in pages he viewed as content forks (I'm still not sure what he means by that). My response to that can be seen - a perfectly reasonable request for him to do what he felt was most productive, but consider that citation-tagging was the way to go. I also placed comments on his talk-page, which you can read if you are interested. That he erupted into a frenzy of AfD requests last night says something, I think, about his unwillingness to discuss and engage in other views. Most of his posts appear as new section declarations that don't appear to have considered the responses other editors give him.
- I've summarised this in the ANI request Dougweller started. The deletion requests were a step too far IMO, and I'm concerned that Peter would spring to such drastic measures in reaction to what he perceives to be me not allowing him to do what he wants to do. I'll be away for a few days so I'm tying up my WP activity now. That underlines my concern that he intends to take such drastic action with only one week's notice of intent. Thanks for looking into this. It would be good if something could be proposed to stop huge problems before they occur. 10:35, 22 July 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zachariel (talk • contribs
)
- One last request. I have just noticed that a related complaint, which is quite serious but has been sidetracked (deliberatly IMO) by Peter's suggestions that I have prevented him from doing what he wants, has been collapsed as "going nowehere" by an unsympathetic editor.
- "Its ben here several days and no admin has even sniffed at a block or ban - clearly you're not going to get admin action. So this should got to WP:DR or WP:RFCU if you want to take it further. I've boldly collapsed this, though I won't be surprised if someone uncollapses it"
- If you can find the time could you at least take a look at that related problem, and consider uncollapsing it, because the issues are serious and have gone beyond the point where Dispute resolution are appropriate. I will be away and have nothing more to add, but the problems identified still remain. Zac Δ talk 10:58, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
What to do?
- I've started a threat at ANI. Those AfDs are purely pointy and if no one objects I'll close them. talk) 06:11, 22 July 2011 (UTC)]
- Replied there. m.o.p 08:20, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
Talk Page on Militant Atheism - Introduction Section
- The update is appreciated, thanks very much. I've been dealing with life for the past two weeks, but I'll be back to close that discussion tonight or tomorrow. Thanks again, m.o.p 22:03, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
- Just bringing this up again, given the current state of this section. I believe the discussion will be archived automatically if not closed. I'm sorry if I sound pushy with you having a lot on your plate of late. If you would prefer, I could alert User:Fastily instead. Turnsalso (talk) 16:55, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
ITN
- I knew that tab I closed had unfinished business on it... thanks. 2008 University of Central Arkansas shootings is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.
The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2008 University of Central Arkansas shootings(2nd nomination) until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on good quality evidence, and our policies and guidelines.
Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article.
talk 14:00, 1 September 2011 (UTC)]
Hey
- Done! Both your userpage and the transcluded page are protected. Cheers, « ₣M₣ » 04:09, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Restored. m.o.p 05:21, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
]
User talk:Joshua the Independent
- My mistake - my block script auto-filled the edit summary. The block was issued due to the user's newfound will to disrupt Wikipedia intentionally. Their previous contributions are welcome, but this behaviour necessitates administrative action. m.o.p 21:52, 13 September 2011 (UTC)
Say hi to your imaginary girlfriend for me
- Well, I do love getting hate mail. Thanks for the laugh! Cheers, m.o.p 05:17, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
...further to the above lovely note, I weighed in on Calabe's talk page - there appears to be more confusion here than at first glance. bou·le·var·dier (talk) 05:19, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
Sorry to drop by again, but Silentsizzlingsausage (talk · contribs) would appear to be a duck. bou·le·var·dier (talk) 05:31, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
- No, it's not an issue! Thanks for the note, blocked. Cheers, WP:SPI. Thanks again, m.o.p 06:13, 14 September 2011 (UTC)]
I have to admit ...
- See the above section. The link is apparently a very subtle spam link that Calabe is removing, and socks are springing up to revert him. Swarm u / t 10:20, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
Moderation
- Alright, I'll make my way back. Thanks for letting me know! m.o.p 05:18, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
User:12.139.96.228
- To be honest, this case is perplexing. Half of this user's edits are constructive (mostly sourced), the other half aren't sourced - and the user won't reply to anybody. I'm also too busy to go through every edit and confirm whether or not it's good. I forgot about this for a while - I'll think about it tonight and figure something out for tomorrow. Thanks for reminding me! m.o.p 05:18, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
Whoops
- Whoops! Must not have been looking when I ran my block script. Thanks for letting me know, I've reblocked them for a far shorter (technically, an infinitely shorter) time. Cheers, m.o.p 22:58, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
Ashleyleggat404
- You're fully right in that the blanking policy covers indefinite blocks. I've removed the user's talk page rights as a result. Thanks again! m.o.p 00:28, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkback
Moderation
- If you look into this please consider whether Anupam's actions on the talk page and the entry itself are violations of WP:OWN. He's been driving off those he disagrees with by bludgening them to death with argument and heavily policing the entry claiming that there is a consensus written in stone despite many dissenting voices. Others have taken to simply calling him "the article's owner." I have had enough of this behavior personally and left him a message about it on his talk page. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:52, 20 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Dear User:Master of Puppets, the above user has misrepresented the occurrences at the article. I started another Introduction discussion at the article's talk page but User:Griswaldo has chosen to edit war over a second NPOV tag, despite the fact that one already exists in the article. He has done so despite the fact that the Introduction is being discussed in a peaceful manner at the talk page, in violation of your injunction: "We've only got consensus on this proposed versions (and loose consensus at that) - please do not attempt to subvert said consensus by making undiscussed changes." I have posted a message on his talk page about this behaviour. Nevertheless, I also do not wish to argue with the user personally and would prefer if you could go back to moderating the discussion between the two parties at the talk page. Thanks for taking the time to read this message. With regards, AnupamTalk 20:58, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- His "injunction?" Adding a neutrality tag to a specific sentence which an editor disputes the neutrality of is hardly "subverting the consensus by making undiscussed changes." Please stop wikilawyering to get your way. There is a growing consensus against your position regarding this article in general as well, despite your aggressive policing of the entry and the talk page. See ]
- I just thought that I would mention that User:Griswaldo, after seeing this message, just now decided to comment in the discussion rather than edit war against consensus further. Thanks for taking the time to read this message. With regards, AnupamTalk 21:51, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- "Edit war against consensus further?" My comment there has nothing to do with your message here. I've made three total edits to this entry ever. One was a copy edit in June, another was reverting an IP vandal, and the third was the revert of your Ownership edit. Please do not insinuate that I'm a edit warrior on this page. It is disingenuous.Griswaldo (talk) 22:08, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Thank you all for approaching me with your concerns.
- Obviously, I do not support Anupam - this is because I'm remaining a neutral third party, and, therefore, can't take sides. However, Griswaldo: please keep in mind that I did ask for all discussion to take place on the talk page. Why not just add your complaints to the talk page? It would have been much easier to discuss.
- I do agree that adding a NPOV tag, while slightly redundant, isn't horrible, but your intent seems to have been to stir discussion on that particular section, discussion that would be much more appropriate on the talk page.
- As for your and Snalwibma's concerns of Anupam trying to 'own' the article, I'm curious as to what you two mean; what 'delusions'?
- Also, Griswaldo, I don't think Anupam meant to insinuate you are an edit warrior (though this is just my take) - rather, they wanted to add the note that you've weighed in on discussion. m.o.p 22:10, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- your intent seems to have been to stir discussion on that particular section - No that's incorrect. I didn't add this tag, I simply reverted Anupam's attempt to own the page when he removed it. I agreed with JimWae's addition of the tag and found Anupam's removal to be unwarranted and a display of ownership.Griswaldo (talk) 22:16, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Note that, for all intents and purposes, reverting somebody is adding whatever is included in your edit, regardless of who put it there first. You revert a removal, you're agreeing with the edition you're reverting to - simple.
- And, if you agreed with JimWae, then we go back to what I was saying earlier - say so on the talk page. Two of you agree? Great! That's closer to consensus. But it means nothing if you express your support by reverting removals.
- Again, as I've asked multiple times, please stop saying that Anupam is owning anything without giving me evidence of it first. m.o.p 22:22, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Dear User:Master of Puppets, thank you for your reply to all of us. The reason User:Snalwibma stated that I was attempting to "own" the article was because I reverted an undiscussed removal from the article, which not only myself, but two other users objected to. In fact, two anonymous IP Addresses also reverted User:Snalwibma. I was open to compromise on the issue and stated that I would accept User:Turnsalso's compromise on the issue. I kindly request you to look at that discussion yourself and get an honest reading of it. Also, the only reason I removed the second NPOV tag was because there was already one present, which I did not remove. I only reverted the addition of a second NPOV tag once and even explained myself on the talk page. When I went to the talk page, I found rude accusations and an anti-collaborative spirit, despite the fact that I have been nothing but polite. I hope this helps. With regards, AnupamTalk 22:25, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry - I know I should not rise to the bait, but I have to object to the comment "The reason User:Snalwibma stated that I was attempting to 'own' the article was because I reverted an undiscussed removal ..." How dare Anupam presume to know what is in my mind! The reason I describe Anupam's attitude to the article as one of ownership is because that is how s/he behaves - "policing" every edit, pronouncing on whether s/he "accepts" or "rejects" it, peremptorily reverting anything s/he does not like, without discussion, presuming to know others' motives, and judging them as fit/unfit to contribute to the article. This has been going on for weeks, if not months. It is impossible to discuss the content of the article, let alone improve the text, because everything is filtered through the approval/disapproval of the article's self-appointed guardian, Anupam. tendentious or disruptive when they bring up certain issues, even when they are clearly in the majority. That is not collaborative. I stopped editing the article heavily because of those issues. I don't have any delusions that my opinion is worth more than anyone else's here, but I would think that the large number of established, experienced editors who are all saying there's a problem, would indicate something. — Jess· Δ♥ 19:45, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
Please reconsider your full protection of Militant atheist
- In case you didn't notice, I asked that people think twice about pointing fingers at each other. If you'd like to start a sockpuppetry investigation, let me know, and we can take that avenue - however, don't accuse other editors of ownership without substance. If you think Anupam is trying to own things, give me something. Diffs, edits, anything. I'll check it out for you, but right now, baseless accusations are not what I'm looking for.
- Also, notice that I protected the article with your edit being the last one. How is that validating the very person you've been reverting?
- The protection will stay until consensus is reached. m.o.p 22:19, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Because protection is what he wants quite clearly. He's stalling conversation and shouting down people on the talk page, where, if you have a look, you'll see he's clearly in the minority. Because of your "injunction" as he calls it, he also claims that no matter how many people agree with a certain change it is illegitimate. I'll be happy to gather some diffs, but my first message to you above was to please look into the situation carefully before acting on it. Did you do that and come to the conclusion that I'm wrong or did you not head that request? Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:29, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Yes, I did heed your request. I don't see any ownership behaviour from Anupam, though, being involved in multiple disputes, I didn't have the time to read every last word on the page, so you're free to provide evidence. However, from what I can see, Anupam's last proposal was supported by the majority - not to count (and I don't mean to imply that I decide where consensus lies by looking at pure numbers), but from looking at pure supports versus opposes, eight people (nine including Anupam) support while four oppose. How does that make Anupam's views a minority? m.o.p 22:37, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- It depends on what view you are talking about. The current RFC on the introduction is something that most people don't even want to engage because most people think this very entry should be split up and integrated into other entries. I reluctantly engaged the RfC just now myself. The last time the more serious question about the entry was asked, several of the new commentators were not around, and there was "no consensus" found because the opposing side was chalk full of SPAs and editors with a view that is outright hostile to atheism (which is a legitimate view to hold, but it is a minority view). Let me find you some diffs.Griswaldo (talk) 22:43, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- User:Griswaldo, that is exactly the issue: you do not want to collaborate with other users on the talk page, which is why you were reluctant to participate in the current RfC. Moreover, there were several SPA's on the side of the opposition as well, including WP:NPOV. In addition, the split was again recently discussed and the specific case to do so was refuted by several editors. As such, there was no consensus for it. I hope this helps. With regards, AnupamTalk 22:52, 20 September 2011 (UTC)]
- No. You are trying to write an article that violates WP:SYNTH because it conflates New Atheism with oppressive communist regimes and their histories of violence. That's hardly NPOV. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:59, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
Hi m.o.p., as someone who occasionally looks at that page (and then washes my hands), I just want to compliment you as having done the right thing in full protecting. By way of unsolicited advice to the involved editors, the best thing they could do is to allow The Wrong Version to sit there a good long time, and devote their energy to other things. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:54, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
]
Yes, please reconsider your full protection of
WP:RS—deserve protection against misinformed reverts. Thanks Geremia (talk) 16:12, 22 September 2011 (UTC)]
Diffs of
- I'm not really sure where the ownership is here; nowhere in our policies is it stated that a user can't promote their RFC on the subject talk page. If it's ongoing and they'd like to move it to the forefront, what's wrong with that? More so, some of your summaries seem inaccurate - in that last diff, you state that Anupam is removing images, yet I only see Anupam adding an image (the peace dove that's at the top of the page). Also, you use repeating examples. m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Well clearly the last diff was wrong. Thanks for the vote of confidence. There are no repeat examples nor inaccurate summaries, just a mistaken copy paste of the second to last diff to the last position as well. I have fixed it. Cheers.
- Using "consensus claims from one RfC to reject changes made to article content
- Same as above. Using the "consensus" bludgeon to get his way. Please note that clearly we ought to edit by consensus, but this consensus is highly disputed, and IMO not there in the first place. The real problem is the way in which Anupam decides to use it like a trump card to remove changes he doesn't like. Ask yourself if all changes post "consensus" have been removed or just the ones Anupam decided he wanted removed.
Master of Puppets do you need more diffs or is this enough?Griswaldo (talk) 23:31, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Well I need more diffs because your "evidence" so far looks like a desperate attempt to incriminate an editor who has been very successful in persuading his colleagues to adopt his proposals. Anupam has presented his proposals, argued the merits and persuaded many editors. Anything you want to tell us about why you're having difficulty doing likewise? – Lionel (talk) 06:02, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- I don't see this is as conclusive evidence, either. And, it should be said - if people are editing against established consensus, then people are free to re-evaluate consensus, but edit-warring against it doesn't make much sense. m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- If not ownership then what is this - [28], [29], [30]? He removes two RfCs started by another editor, and revolving around the question that many of us actually find to be the fundamental question to answer regarding the entry. Then he edit wars to keep these RfCs off the page, claiming again to have some sort of authority stemming from your prior actions. If you aren't willing to do something here I'm going to another administrator and I'm going to ask for your initial "consensus," your strong arm administrating, and your lack of action here to be reviewed as well. Thanks.Griswaldo (talk) 17:08, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Anupam has already apologized for reverting those RfC additions, and we've moved past it. He also didn't claim to have administrative authority, but was waiting for my approval. We've cleared this up, it's not an issue. So no, I'm not going to take any action (as I've said here and on ANI). Now, if you'd like to threaten me and tell me that, since I'm not cooperating with your wills, you'll go to another administrator, that's fine - as I've said, you can seek outside opinions - but remember to keep a cool head, because borderline threats are not appreciated. m.o.p 21:49, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- It was not a threat, "borderline" or otherwise. You are conveniently ignoring a growing number of voices who are all saying the same thing - there is an ownership problem here. The deletion issue has not been "cleared up" as far as I'm concerned. Whenever it is mentioned Anupam insists that he did not "unilaterally" delete the RfCs from the page, which is a blatant distortion, since that is exactly what he did. He continues to act as a policeman at the page, and yes he does continue to cite your authority. Did you bother to read the many diffs I posted above in the second two sections? I will quote three random examples from those I provided for you if you want.
- When he first deleted the two RfCs he wrote: "rv - see discussion with reviewing administrator; approval needed to start another RfC while one is already occurring."
- When he deleted a fact tag that JimWae put into the lede: "rv excessive tagging per talk; tag is already extant in header; do not subvert previous consensus but gain consensus for potential additions per administrative notice"
- When he rejected another recent change to the entry: "accepted edits by User:Jkhwiki; rv removal of longstanding referenced content - see discussion on talk page and gain consensus for action per administrative injunction"
- In talk page comments and in edit summaries he consistently does the same thing. He refers to your authority, either directly or indirectly through your "notice" or your "injunction" as he likes to call it. I never said the claimed to have administrative authority, I said that he's using your authority, by way of your comments, such as the closure of the AfD to bully people. Do you deny that he citing your comments, because if you do then I must have fabricated those quotes. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:32, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
If you say "If you don't do A, then I'm going to go and do B", that's a threat. Anyway, that's not the issue - we've already covered all the issues with the RfC reverting, and Anupam won't do it again. Why keep raising hell over it?
We've already covered everything you bring up. And no, I'm not denying anything. I'm just saying this, and it's very simple: I don't think there has been any blatant ownership here. That's my judgment. If you disagree, again, feel free to raise this with another administrator or on ANI. m.o.p 23:12, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Regarding the new RFC, I still think there has not passed yet too much time since the last discussion about splitting the article. As far as I knew, repeating these sorts of debates (like splitting, deleting, renaming) before a larger amount of time has passed (like 6 months) is usually discouraged. And as others have also argued earlier, even if having multiple RFCs is possible, it's not very useful, and the new RFC seems to discourage further discussion about improving the lead introduction. So preventing multiple RFCs (and also a RFC about an issue debated not too long ago) does not look to me like evidence of bad faith intentions. Cody7777777 (talk) 21:37, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Cody, would you mind linking me to the previous RfC on splitting? m.o.p 21:49, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- The previous attempt to split the article can be found here. Cody7777777 (talk) 21:55, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Response
Yes, it does. Thanks, m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Dear User:Master of Puppets, I just noticed that User:Binksternet started another RfC while a current one is occurring. Is this appropriate? I reverted the addition motioning for one until your response is confirmed. If it is acceptable, then I apologize and will revert my edit. I look forward to your response. With regards, AnupamTalk 15:14, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'll form my reply on ANI. m.o.p 17:12, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- When you do please take into account my comment just above, regarding Anupam's edit warring to remove talk page comments (namely these RfCs) posted by others on the talk page. If you still don't think this is WP:OWN then clearly other administrators are needed here.Griswaldo (talk) 17:15, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Dear User:Griswaldo, how is going to a neutral mediator to address the issue owning the article? I acknowledge that the article is in dispute and as a result, I am asking an administrator for advice in this matter, NOT handling things on my own, as you have done by edit warring. Your WP:OWN allegations have not only been dismissed by this administrator, but by several other users, including, User:Lionelt, User:Cody7777777 and User:NYyankees51. Thanks, AnupamTalk 17:27, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- In reply to Griswaldo: reverting the RfCs was a mistake, but we've cleared that up now. As Anupam has stated at ANI, the intent was not to discourage discussion. If you think my judgment is compromised, you're welcome to seek another administrator's input. m.o.p 21:04, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- And as further evidence of WP:OWN, see this. Anupam adds a comment to everything that anyone else says, as if he/she is the owner of the article and everyone else is a subordinate contributor. This particular instance is pretty benign (although it clutters up the talk page with an unnecessary comment that merely says "I agree"), but I do think that Anupam at least needs to learn how to avoid giving the appearance of thinking he/she owns the article, and to desist from chipping in and saying the same thing over and over again, which almost makes meaningful discussion impossible! SNALWIBMA ( talk - contribs ) 17:31, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- While the input is appreciated, as I've said before, making allegations of ownership without hard evidence isn't going to get us anywhere. Anupam is not stopping others from discussing changes or forming consensus, and that's all that matters - refactoring the talk page or commenting on an issue is not against policy, and I'm not going to tell someone to stop editing because it "looks" like they're doing something wrong. As said above, you're welcome to request another administrator's insight if you wish. m.o.p 21:04, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
COIHi
you've helped me out before, with a conflict of interest problem, so having much more experience than me on wikipedia, I thought I would be bold enough to ask again for help.
Similar problem to last, User_talk:Hobbycraft is editing the HOBBYCRAFT article and making changes that aren't citably right. I think the user name suggest and history suggests a conflict of interest case.
Can you please, speak to them addressing this issue.
Thank you very much for your help.
Markcoulter50 (talk) 22:27, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
- I've blocked that user for username violations. Thanks a lot for letting me know! Keep up the great work, m.o.p 23:00, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkbackcausa sui (talk) 18:47, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Hello. You have a new message at causa sui's talk page. causa sui (talk) 20:54, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Problematic editing on militant atheism
- I hope it's not considered defamatory to repeat the final line: "I merely present the diffs above, and let others draw their own conclusions. Is this a duck? Does it quack? You decide.". Unfortunately, the concerned community no longer has that opportunity. What did you decide on their behalf? Does this duck quack, or not? bobrayner (talk) 15:42, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- It's not your wording, it's the very idea of it. Going to what's allegorically a public place and shouting, "Hey, everybody, this man is a criminal!" is one step below blatantly forming a lynch mob. As I've said, I have no problem with your wording or evidence, just your location of choice. Wikipedia is not, unfortunately, a democracy - letting others draw their conclusions and voice their opinions is not how a sockpuppet investigation works.
- So yes, please don't go restoring any of that section. We're not discussing editors, we're discussing the content they produce. Anything else has a sub-board to deal with it (like WP:SPI).
- Hopefully that clears things up! I'll be happy to answer any more questions should you have them. Cheers, m.o.p 15:48, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Hello User:Bobrayner, I noticed the section you created on the militant atheism talk page. If you do feel the way you do about User:Turnsalso and the anonymous IP Addresses, you can take this up with WP:SPI. Thanks, AnupamTalk 15:52, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
Are you kidding my MoP? Above your write: Going to what's allegorically a public place and shouting, "Hey, everybody, this man is a criminal!" is one step below blatantly forming a lynch mob. AND We're not discussing editors, we're discussing the content they produce. Yet you call this edit by Lionelt "good faith," at WQA? MoP, I would not ask you to agree with me or to like me, but can I please ask you not to insult me with these double standards.Griswaldo (talk) 16:18, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
]
- Griswaldo, I mean no offense when I say this, but I'd appreciate it if you stayed out of discussions which didn't involve you. Also, please don't put words in my mouth. Thanks, m.o.p 16:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I have not put words in your mouth. You said that you would assume good faith about Lionel. If you "assume good faith" it means you assume his edits were in "good faith." If you did not intend that meaning I suggest you reconsider what you wrote. Also, if you want me to "stay out of discussion which don't involve me" then I suggest your first order of business should be to do the same thing yourself. You decided to post at WQA, when there was no mention of you or anything you've done in that thread. Once again, I expect people not to practice double standards. So as long as you cannot show me that you will treat me as you ask to be treated yourself, I will not oblige you. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:21, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Please stop bickering. I'm not quite sure what you're trying to accomplish here. I've already explained what I meant when I said assuming good faith, but I'll explain again: I assumed that Lionelt was not hounding or deliberately haranguing you. I did not say, at any point, that his edit content was good faith, and I've told him not to edit like that again. So please stop accusing me of saying things I haven't said.
- Also, I posted in WQA because, as a mediator in this case and as an administrator, it's my duty to weigh in on administrative noticeboards, especially when the case is an ongoing discussion I've been participating in for three months. It is not your duty to weigh in on discussions on my talk page that don't concern you. I hope the distinction is clear here. m.o.p 20:33, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I think you are confused about something. Content is never good faith. "Editing in good faith" and "good faith edits" refers to the intent of the editor always. It has nothing to do with content. My assumption that you also felt the edits were appropriate comes from the fact that you did not say they weren't appropriate and clearly feel that his intentions were good. If you'd like to set the record straight on that issue you still can. I've asked you twice now to discuss the actual edits that are the focal point of the thread. Also, I moved the thread to ANI, per the suggestion of the editor who marked it "resolved."Griswaldo (talk) 20:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- See Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#User:Lionelt_--_following_my_past_edits_to_drum_up_support_against_me. FYI, I copy pasted the entire discussion because both you and Collect were critical of my initial post and I thought it was the right thing to do to preserve that criticism in the record of the conversation. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:43, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- In reply to your first paragraph: I'm going to give up now, as it seems you're misunderstanding most of what I type, but you're the one who stated that the content was not good faith (as you said, not appropriate), and I agreed - I referred to his intent in replying to you, and said that I assumed good faith in his motives, not his replies. I can't really say that in a clearer way, so my apologies if it's hard to understand. Also, as I've already said, I've left a message for Lionelt about his edits, so clearly I do not feel they're appropriate. m.o.p 20:57, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I, too, find these double standards vexing.
- Which diff is defamatory?
- I had hitherto thought that people on the article talkpage might like to be aware of potential problems with votestacking on the article talkpage (and 3rr evasion, of course). Would it be permitted to add a link to that list of diffs when it's in a different place, or would you consider that defamatory too? bobrayner (talk) 16:23, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- As I said, the information is not defamatory, but the way it's presented is - we have specific processes available to pursue should one feel there are sockpuppets about. However, calling someone out with the intent of informing the community is overstepping your authority and damaging to the accused's character. Also, there's no way a community discussion about whether or not one editor is a sockpuppet can end in anything other than a sockpuppet investigation anyway.
- So, in closing, please don't bring issues like this to the talk page. If you're concerned about votestacking, take it to the appropriate venue - if your concerns are validated, we'll take measures against said puppets. Cheers, m.o.p 16:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I am very disappointed that it's no longer permissible to raise problems with article-editing on the article talkpage. Previous concerns about sockpuppetry were simply ignored; the difference this time is that it's backed by lots of diffs.
- I'm fairly confident that the people concerned have sufficient technical nous to make checkuser draw a blank. And, let's be entirely honest, within minutes of me creating an SPI, an admin of the right persuasion will be getting an email suggesting that an SPI needs their attention. And SPI does not see offsite coordination by a facebook group &c. Finally, any null result at SPI will be used at the article in much the same way as previous administrative decisions have been. So, I do not believe that an SPI will improve either the article, or the encyclopædia as a whole. bobrayner (talk) 17:08, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- If you don't think the pre-existing methods set in place for situations like this are sufficient, you can always raise that concern at the village pump or suggest a policy revision - however, SPI is the venue for these requests, and the only venue. The talk page can not substitute. m.o.p 17:10, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
76.228.226.122Thank you for blocking the anonymous user, who is being counterproductive and rude. (although I think the block should have been one week, but I guess ok at least)
Can you also please try to hide the edit summaries of these edits if possible?
This and
this
Thanks and regards, talk 05:04, 26 September 2011 (UTC)]
- I'll extend the block if this behaviour continues after the block period is over.
- As for the edit summaries, those don't warrant hiding - I apologize for their content, but they don't meet the criteria of what I should remove. It's best just to ignore them for now. Cheers, m.o.p 05:13, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
- Okay, good to know, if I did nothing wrong, no permanent block will be enforced. The IP does not volunteer on WP as an admin and so the disproportionately out of line comments and threats of his should be ignored. --talk 05:19, 26 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Sounds good. We only hide extremely offensive revisions; milder ones stay in the edit history. Thanks again for bringing this to our attention! Cheers, m.o.p 05:31, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
Email
Jasper Deng (talk) 05:29, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
- Reading. talk) 06:00, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Bad Girls Club
- I've blocked Junebea for 2 days for disregarding warnings. m.o.p 20:30, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks for helping :) Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 21:06, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkback
- And again.Griswaldo (talk) 04:24, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
- And again ... but maybe the last. You can settle this question once and for all. See the talk page.Griswaldo (talk) 06:09, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'm sure I'm not alone in wanting to hear your replies to the last responses posed to you at that page. IMO, I don't know why you went down the road you did, but as far as I can tell you're blatantly misrepesenting facts about your own actions when people are brining concerns to you. You might think that since you closed the RfC the matter is settled, but it is not. You're actions have not made my life any more pleasant in the last few days vis-a-vis trying to deal with Anupam's disruption and I think you owe us all answers. So please revisit this thread and deal with the open questions. Thanks.Griswaldo (talk) 02:19, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
- I invite you to stop asking the same question again and again. This would be appreciated. Thanks, m.o.p 02:33, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Block question
- No, I just block obviously bad-faith accounts on sight. Advertising/spam accounts fall under that category. m.o.p 00:37, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Thanks
- Thank you. I've unlocked the article for whatever may come. If I'm needed again, feel free to let me know. Thanks for the kind words again, m.o.p 05:12, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
reminder
- We're still waiting to see if the user understands COI policy (per Ed's question). I'll prod the user and see if they'll answer. talk) 19:20, 30 September 2011 (UTC)]
Nextel logo deleted
- Mmm, good point. What's the link to the logo in question? m.o.p 01:33, 2 October 2011 (UTC)
Support of Sage City SymphonyYou deleted this page before I had a chance to go back in and add the stuff that you wanted to see, including the links within Wikipedia to important composers such as Lou Callabro (who started this orchestra and cites it in his Wikipedia page) and Susan Hurley whose work we premiered (SC is also mentioned in her Wikipedia entry). (Let alone links about the works we have performed.) And we have a web site at www.sagecitysymphony.org, have existed for over 35 yrs and are a significant cultural resource in the Bennington area such that we receive grants from local, statewide and national foundations.
I broke my wrist last weekend and am doing one-handed pecking so it'll take me a few days to get that loaded in. We are going out for a bit now, but I would appreciate your undeleting the page so that I don't have to re-invent the starting part when I go back in tomorrow to add links. Or delete it entirely so that I can start fresh - at this point either would work as long as I can start some serious work on it tomorrow. I am the webmaster by the way, so I do have access to content and more links.
Thank you, Celia Murray — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.228.127.119 (talk) 14:22, 1 October 2011 (UTC)
- It looks like fixed everything up. Best of luck, m.o.p 01:35, 2 October 2011 (UTC)]
Reply on Deterence's talk page
MA
After the beating you took you deserve a cold one--on me! Thanks for being fair and balanced – Lionel (talk) 03:55, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
- Hey, thanks! Glad to help out. :) m.o.p 03:56, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
Deletion of Mau5trap Recordings
--neocharles (talk) 07:33, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Existence does not equal notability - the subject has to be notable to get a Wikipedia page. m.o.p 12:05, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
Questoin re: AIV
- Addendum, actually, I read it very clearly in WP:VANDNOT: "Uploading or using material on Wikipedia in violation of Wikipedia's copyright policies is prohibited, but is not vandalism unless the user does so maliciously or fails to heed warnings." So if a person fails to heed warnings it is vandalism. My mistake here was that I only warned once. --Muhandes (talk) 12:29, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Eh, technically it is vandalism, but the user seems to be trying to improve the Wikipedia - that desire to help is misplaced in this case, as they seem to think that using copyrighted content is actually better. Weird. For most cases, yes, you should report copyvio to AIV - as long as they've been warned sufficiently. m.o.p 12:42, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- OK, he now did it again and the time stamp is after your last warning. Is it vandalism now? --Muhandes (talk) 12:32, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Yeah, if they're outright ignoring warnings. I've blocked for three days. m.o.p 12:40, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
Classmusic
- Oh, I know. But if somebody's lied to my face about using another account - and to other editors working on the article - I'm not about to let them go without a repercussion or two. I'd like Almost-instinct and Voceditnore to look over the article and fix up anything shifty. Also, I'd like Classmusic to respond to my warning, instead of blanking it and ignoring like they have to the above-named editors.
- So, in short, I know that COI doesn't bar editing, but it's enough of a concern that, given the user's recent behaviour, I'll stop them from doing anything until we've figured things out. This isn't too rouge-y, is it? I didn't hear that. Perhaps he is unaware of the sockpuppet investigation findings. Anyhow it seems that DeltaQuad has also blocked the Classmusic account. I left a note on his page about using the unblock template, but re-iterated that he needs to read the COI and Autobiography guidelines and stick to them scrupulously, if he gets unblocked. In the Opera and Classical Music WikiProjects, we get a lot of articles for performers, ensembles, etc. created by their agents and PR people, and often themselves. In my experience, the best I can hope for after one of these tussles is that they'll edit their article according to the guidelines in future. I have yet to find a single one who has ever contributed anything else to Wikipedia. Their only interest in the project is as a PR tool. Having said that, at least it results (after much red-pencilling from other editors) in one new article on a notable subject that we didn't have before and in a small way redresses the pop culture systemic bias here. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 13:40, 5 October 2011 (UTC)]
Danish election
- Never mind, it's been pulled by another admin. All the best, Jenks24 (talk) 11:03, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry about that! I was busy all day and didn't get your message until now. Thanks for letting me know, though! Cheers, m.o.p 19:51, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
3RRHey there! :)
Well WP:CRYSTAL has wined down, however, there's currently a
The Bad Girls Club (season 7). I have notified the two users [32], [33]. The evidence can be found here. They are having an edit-conflict on how the "Duration of cast" should be presented. Since there's no rules regarding anything like that, and it was made up about a year ago, I couldn't warned them to stop their e/c with anything except the 3RR rule. Maybe they need an admin to tell them to stop, so that's why I came to you :) Thanks, Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 01:17, 6 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Temporary page protection requested. Calabe1992 (talk) 01:29, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
Block an IP
E-Mail
nice guyhiii master of puppets,
ok do u know the movie Twilght saga ?
rply me back i want 2 talk 2 u a lot because i like ur pesonalty.BY
talk) 11:58, 28 April 2011 (UTC)]
File source problem with File:MoPuppetarmy.pngThank you for uploading File:MoPuppetarmy.png. I noticed that the file's description page currently doesn't specify who created the content, so the copyright status is unclear. If you did not create this file yourself, you will need to specify the owner of the copyright. If you obtained it from a website, please add a link to the website from which it was taken, together with a brief restatement of that website's terms of use of its content. However, if the copyright holder is a party unaffiliated from the website's publisher, that copyright should also be acknowledged.
If you have uploaded other files, consider verifying that you have specified sources for those files as well. You can find a list of files you have created in your upload log. Unsourced and untagged images may be deleted one week after they have been tagged per Wikipedia's criteria for speedy deletion, F4. If the image is copyrighted and non-free, the image will be deleted 48 hours after 11:44, 11 May 2011 (UTC) per speedy deletion criterion F7. If the file is already gone, you can still make a request for undeletion and ask for a chance to fix the problem. You may wish to read the Wikipedia's image use policy. If you have any questions or are in need of assistance please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. Magog the Ogre (talk) 11:44, 11 May 2011 (UTC)
The Deputy
- Thanks for your reply. My concern was not that Jayjg indicated he would rewrite and did not do so, but that he had agreed to allow more of the disputed section in the article rather than a dismissive sentence or two, but when editors began to delete the entire section based on frivolous reasons, he supported it. It appears now that we have, or are in the process of reaching a resolution. The section is now in the article, reduced substantially to account of Jayjg's concers about undue weight. Mamalujo (talk) 18:40, 27 May 2011 (UTC)
Carla Rushing page deletion
Any further discussion of Sarah Palin will result in a warning, and then a temporary block. Thank you!Hmmm, that might be just a tad excessive. We don't want to suppress all discussion, because that's when the pressure has nowhere to go, and people will go and meatball:ExpandScope.
Since scope is already expanded to international media, forcing scope to expand further might be a bit of a Bad Idea (tm). I recommend Not Going There.
If we're really intent on keeping discussions off of WP, we can always create a wikinews article, and link to the "discuss this article" page.
However, at the moment, people seem to be keeping it down to a dull roar anyway.
--Kim Bruning (talk) 22:44, 6 June 2011 (UTC)
- I think you caught my side point, but I'd like to stress the part I'm trying to tell you to watch out for!
- Long term empirical experience shows that attempts to curtail discussion on wikipedia will not slow down the internet discussion elsewhere (or even on wikipedia). Instead, that's exactly what will feed it more and more steam. So Don't Do That.
- Experience shows that the following approaches work:
- Try to centralize all (spurious) discussion in one place
- keep it as focused on encyclopedic work as possible.
- Treat the new users like new users. They don't know our rules yet. Teach them!
- The foundation would like to see us be more welcoming towards new users. That's a good idea! Let's do that.
- --Kim Bruning (talk) 00:26, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
- And... it went to AN/I (see below) --Kim Bruning (talk) 01:33, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
Edit Notice on Paul RevereYou seem to be asserting some admin right to quench discussion on the talk page by blocking and/or warning with the editnotice that I don't think we have, by policy. IAR doesn't cover stomping on people, no matter how annoying a particular conversation is.
Kelly started a
WP:ANI discussion on this.
Followups probably best on ANI as I am sure others will want to comment. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 01:15, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
- On review - I'm going to blank the edit notice now. If an ANI consensus develops to support restoring it then I'll not object at all, but I think it's novel and enough of a stretch that the default should be "no" unless consensus develops otherwise. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 01:19, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
How does a user find a mentor?
Helen Lucy Burke
Talkback
I did what you asked but the IP reverted it again. PTJoshua (talk) 21:09, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
- You're removing everything I say. Please don't do this. It isn't helpful. --86.45.75.42 (talk) 21:19, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
- I'll talk to them. Sit tight for a second. m.o.p 21:10, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
RE: Deletion of 48gogreen page :ApalejaHello,
Thank you for quick response. I appreciate your reason. but if you do some research you'll find more then 4 or 5 substantial mentions in local or international media - in a newspaper, on a notable website, etc. - to put forward this article.
There is a link on official website of company. http://www.48gogreen.com/static/web
Looking forward for your response. thank you in advance to undelete article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Apaleja (talk • contribs) 08:03, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
Here are some articles from International Press (you can use Google translator-if you use chrome it'll provide option immediately):
http://www.regione.emilia-romagna.it/wcm/cinema/sezioni_primopiano/PrimoPiano/Gadoev.htm
http://domani.arcoiris.tv/girano-un-corto-in-48-ore-e-arrivano-dritti-a-cannes/
http://www.close-up.it/spip.php?article6724
http://www.flashvideo.it/news/9/2578/
http://www.radioemiliaromagna.it/cultura/cinema/videomaker_bolognesi_cannes_corto_ecologico.aspx
Also if YOU HAD READ careful our site you should have see the Press link (those are press links not blogs) with all these web press: http://www.48gogreen.com/static/web
Thank you — Preceding unsigned comment added by Apaleja (talk • contribs) 08:22, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
Final warning On Edit Warring of Efik language disputeIf My Reporting a false article is the reason you want to block me. Then Go ahead and BLOCK me.- I can be Block because I don't care to be part of a web/Encyclopedia of Lies! Although I have contributed anonymously to wikipedia since 2008, I only just signed on a few weeks ago to report an error that I thought was made. But you and your other BIASED administrators have refused to fix this error, instead you're all threatening to block me.
- : According to Wikipedia A false statement/article is removed immediatley it is realized. Yet as am reporting it you all are threatening me for causing disruption.
- You all are saying that I called I called Kwami Slow, Dumb etc. Yet Kwami used the words Ignorance first.
"As for Ukwa, your ignorance is not evidence of anything".
- What is the meaning of IGNORANCE? S/He also said;
"But we cannot have the same article under two names, nor an article on Ibibio-Efik that does not include Ibibio, nor an article on Efik that does not include Efik. A little common sense would be helpful."
- What is meaning of Common sense? Or because Kwami put it very nicely, and mine wasn't? Also I wasn't blanking the Efik page, since I just signed on it takes me a long while to write up an article. According to the statements above, Kwami said I could develop articles on Efik and Ibibio, that is what I was doing when you or your other BIASED administrators returned the articles back to the re-direct.
- : Since wikipedia says a false statement is fixed immediately it is reported, I explained out the mistakes, but Kwami kept insisting that me a native who speaks these languages was wrong and asked for sources. I provided the sources and Kwami Called A brilliant Historian who is a Million times more knowledgable than Kwami on the language;
"utterly ignorant AND not some random idiot who posted a web page".
- Yet you and your other Biased colleges are claiming that am the one attacking Kwami and causing a disruption.
- : Am done with Wikipedia, am going to be taking this issues to the Founder/head by email, once the Ibibio union are involved it might become a legal matter if Wikipedia still continues to portray this misleading information.
I will take this matter to the heads by Email first because they might not be aware of what you all supposed administrators are doing to their image. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ibibiogrl (talk • contribs) 21:41, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
Hi Mops,
Pls read my comments on the ANI page. I think Ibibiogrl means well, she just needs some guidance, and she's not willing to take it from me. — kwami (talk) 22:17, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
- Obviously we would like to have contributors from that part of the world, but Ibibiogrl's record here is so unpromising that I think we need good assurances that something will change in the future. (I would welcome any evidence that Ibibiogrl means well. It is hard to improve the encyclopedia when you have no interest in or respect for its policies. Read her statement above if you are uncertain about that). Mentorship has value only for someone who understands that something has gone wrong and would be willing to work with a mentor. EdJohnston (talk) 22:46, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
- I agree with Ed in this case - I have no grudge against Ibibiogrl, but the editor's attitude, despite multiple pleas for otherwise, remained combative and even insulting at points. If there's a serious expression of guilt and the editor decides they'd like to walk a different path, I'd be happy to help. However, as it is now, I believe the block should stand. m.o.p 22:52, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
- I agree that it would require some indication that she wants help. Just my 2¢ as the person she's most upset with. — kwami (talk) 23:05, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
- For the record, your input is highly appreciated, and very admirable; as the editor in conflict with her, I respect your neutrality and helpfulness. As for Ibibiogrl, we'll see where that goes. Cheers! m.o.p 00:59, 17 June 2011 (UTC)
Can you adopt me i want a new adopter.
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Mr. Pit (2nd nomination)
This isn't personalI belive the AFD on Campaign for "santorum" neologism was closed way to early and am contesting your close.
An editor has asked for a deletion review of Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2011 June 21. Because you closed the deletion discussion for this page, speedily deleted it, or otherwise were interested in the page, you might want to participate in the deletion review. KoshVorlon' Naluboutes Aeria Gloris 12:17, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
James Ball
Thank you for your concern. But I will not be blocked - _I am adding_ wikipedia to adblock. I also feel regret for having donated to the site before, but this will not happen again. Demonuminon (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 23:25, 23 June 2011 (UTC).
Thomas James BallWhy the hell did you delete his page?
Does his suffering mean nothing to you?
Heartless bitch. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.57.206.141 (talk • contribs)
Hey, Master of Puppets, OBVIOUSLY there is a public interested in keeping this article. Restore your deletion. Look at the massive flood of comments regarding your deletion here: http://www.<linkremoved>.com/2011/06/24/the-organized-silencing-of-a-man-publicly-burned-to-death/ and here http://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/i81rw/the_organized_silencing_of_a_man_publicly_burned/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Romerom (talk • contribs) 20:05, 24 June 2011 (UTC)
- Ball HIT A FOUR-YEAR-OLD CHILD, refused to pay child support, called for insurrection, demanded terrorism and violence as a solution, ultimately killed himself (leaving his children without a father) and damaged public property in the process. Even after all that, his incoherent message has mostly been ignored except by the less discriminating people claiming to speak for "men's rights" who haven't bothered to look into the details of his case. (If you really want to damage your cause, adopt a grown man who hits his own four-year-old child and flakes out on his child support as your poster boy.) --Orange Mike | Talk 20:26, 24 June 2011 (UTC) (proud father who has never hit his child in his lifetime)
Hey, "proud father who never hit his child in his lifetime", not everybody is against disciplining their children by spanking. He said his daughter was licking his hand, and he had told her repeatedly to stop. She didn't, and he smacked her. He didn't punch her, or send her to the hospital, or cause any serious injury. Just enough to have his wife baited into calling the police on him by child protective services. As for child support, he paid his child support until the point where he wasn't able to afford it due to an employment issue. Is that such a crazy thing to have happen? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.211.155.1 (talk) 04:28, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
- Again, while I do sympathize with the family and supporters, I am not taking sides, nor do I have any bias in this situation. I am not a feminist, nor am I a misogynist - I am fair and neutral towards all people, whether they be abusive fathers or abused fathers.
- This deletion was enforced solely in keeping with Wikipedia's long-established policies. Mr. Ball's death, while indeed tragic, was not reported throughout the reliable media enough to show his notability.
- I hope this makes sense to all those saddened by Mr. Ball's passing. Cheers, m.o.p 21:04, 24 June 2011 (UTC)
- I understand that you do not think that Mr. Ball's death is something that qualifies as an event and thus deleted said article. I disagree but I do see the merits of your argument. However, you claim to be unbiased in this debate and yet for someone who judges on the letter of the law you break the law and close debate 2.5 days before final judgment is to be rendered. If you have no corner then I ask why make this article a special case that it must be quelled , by your own admission, 2.5 days before any other articles found in similar circumstances are voted upon. I petition you to reinstate and allow the normal course of the discussion continue for the 2.5 days, allow the full opportunity for the pro side to make their case then recluse yourself from the final judgment. This is the only way to ensure transparency so that your claim of neutrality can be believed. CaffOMHW (talk) 03:28, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
- Ahead of things, let me tell you that I appreciate the civility.
- Wikipedia's policies aren't law - they're guidelines. As an administrator, it's my job to apply policy in a way that is completely devoid of bias and benefits the encyclopedia as a whole.
- On a side note, the deletion nomination was closed 1.5 days before the normal time. The page had a whole work week to be saved, rewritten or reworked; however, due to the lack of outside sourcing that carried reliability, there was nothing to keep that wasn't editorialized or unencyclopedic. I would also like to point out that almost every account that voiced their opinion in the 'keep' spectrum had either only edited that page or had edited very little aside from the page. Meanwhile, the deletion argument was put forward by experienced users.
- Though I understand that some people take offense to my early closure, I assure them that one extra day would not have yielded success, and that I took many factors into consideration before closing the discussion.
- Again, thank you for the civility, but I won't be overturning judgment or recreating a deletion discussion at this date. m.o.p 08:17, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
ITNthx for the 2 quick updates of my nom ;)
but also can you see the bolivia one. its got support and very nearly out of the news. we could tack it nearer the border.Lihaas (talk) 22:26, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
Ball closure.
Thank God you are an ambassador for WP, and against censorship, MoP. When Wikipedia fails, and it eventually will, it will largely be because most people don't like to be gamed and would rather not read well cultivated information that is maintained by dishonest brokers who hide behind rules that are never applied in an even-handed manner. The idea that a story is not relevant merely because it is not yet encyclopedic is ridiculous when one sees all the articles which linger on for months or years in the same state. The idea that a story is not relevant because the motivations/justifications of the user are suspect would be grounds for eliminating half the biographical articles in WP. It smacks of an agenda. The appearance of impropriety is as bad as actual impropriety.173.78.20.96 (talk) 04:51, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
- I appreciate the feedback.
- I do my best to maintain an equal, proportionate response in all dealings on Wikipedia; I don't defend things I like, or attack things I dislike, just for the reason of screwing with people. That strikes me as childish. Instead, the most I can do is try to help others understand Wikipedia policies, which are generally mind-bending and hard to grasp (for example, most people ask, "What's the reasoning a war hero isn't considered notable when Donkey Kong is?").
- Maybe one day the policies will change. I mean, most of these were written five, six year ago - the world's changing, and I expect they will with time. But, for now, the guidelines handle what comes in.
- Again, thanks for the input. I appreciate not being personally attacked - it makes it easier to reply. Cheers, m.o.p 05:08, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Natami (2nd nomination)
- The close was thoroughly thought-out, so there's not much ground for me to explore that I haven't already. If you're set on going to DRV, there's nothing I can say which will change your mind, and it's your right to ask for a review. However, current consensus sits at delete (unless the 'keep' side is hiding an ace-in-the-hole reliable source or something). Cheers, m.o.p 04:55, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- So, what about the reliable sources we already brought up in the AfD such as this interview in Amiga Future or this news article from nr2.ru? We've already established that Amiga Future isn't sponsored by a hardware company as one !voter there falsely claimed. On a related note, did you discount the !votes from individuals making misleading statements or those claiming there were "no independent reliable sources"? (I could tell you how that !voter happened to show up there, but he isn't going to like it.) I could also link to forum posts by another delete !voter who showed up there who was very much into a "delete at any cost" mode because he doesn't like "amiga clones". --Tothwolf (talk) 05:11, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- Those sources were there before the previous close, and I, like the previous administrator, do not think they're strong enough.
- I've already covered what kind of rationale was discounted and what wasn't.
- As for your last statement about other editors - I'm not quite sure what your point is, but I don't think it's relevant. As I said, I've discounted any rationale that does not apply policy.
- Cheers, m.o.p 05:33, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- Uh, no...nr2.ru was only brought up in the second AfD. Strong enough is also an argument to be made in a !vote, not a closing statement. --Tothwolf (talk) 05:56, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- My apologies, the Russian source was indeed added after the first AfD. Still too shaky for a stand-alone article, though. Cheers, m.o.p 13:42, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- To follow up on my earlier comment, while I don't really want to get into an "X did this because of Y" sort of thing with regards to this AfD, there were a number of delete !voters who showed up there for personal reasons/vendettas/bias and/or who made false statements about sources. Despite the template at the top of the AfD, the second AfD also didn't suffer from the forum canvassing that the first did. One of the delete !voters actually came by way of the forum and first AfD and was trolling because of his personal dislike of Amiga clones. --Tothwolf (talk) 15:33, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
If they have valid, policy-based rationale, their personal motivation doesn't matter, solely for the reason that an encyclopedia based on liking or disliking things would crumble instantly. I'm sure some of the deletion crew could just-as-easily blame keep voters for being enthusiasts and fans of Natami - but that's not important. As a result, making allegations of personal bias is unnecessary. The help is appreciated, but there's nothing I can do with the information. m.o.p 15:39, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- It matters when someone makes false statements and tries to hide what they are doing behind policy. As for keeps, quite a number appear to be from well established editors who don't appear to be all that interested in Amiga topics. As for myself, I wasn't even aware of NatAmi until the first AfD and didn't even !vote in the first AfD since I thought it was pretty obvious it was headed for a no-consensus close. --Tothwolf (talk) 15:58, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- Again, if their rationale is grounded in policy, their motivation does not matter, simply because it's impossible to discern someone's intent through text, and because the second someone accuses another of favoritism/malicious intent the entire argument turns into a bunch of people shouting, "You're lying." That's why there's nothing I can do with your information in this case. Cheers, m.o.p 16:02, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- Apologies to you, M.O.P., for addressing another editor on your talk page, but I just wanted to jump in this conversation. Tothwolf, with no prejudice against you at all I strongly suggest you take this in perspective. There have been two AFDs and an ANI report over this article. The way you treated me on my talk page threatening DRV because I was a new administrator was, as I feel it, borderline harassing. That you canvassed two other administrators to talk to me was also a below the belt move. In good faith, I relisted the debate and it has closed again as delete. I strongly suggest taking the advice at WP:DGAF into account here and let the issue go. I don't think there will be a problem recreating this article, even pulling the old content back from the deletion log, when the subject has better sources in a broader community. I hold no ill feeling toward you, this is purely honest advice.--v/r - TP 16:46, 27 June 2011 (UTC)]
- TParis, while you are correct in that this talk page is not the place for this, because you brought this up here and you seem to value honest feedback, I'll address this here.
In no way did I ever threaten you with DRV, let alone because you were a new administrator (discussion in question). I did however upon noticing that you had passed RFA only days earlier decide it best not to press you further in public and instead sent you this short email: "Sigh. I just noticed you just finished your RFA. The Natami AfD was a bad AfD to pick to close right out of the gate. It is likely to end up at DRV and given the magazine I mentioned, overturned. I really wish you would reconsider your close. You might have noticed I didn't even !vote in the AfD itself, however I did point out a number of things and took a couple of people to task for making false or misleading statements." That is the only email I sent you about the matter and not once did I ever threaten you with DRV. Please get your facts correct before making statements such as this because such mistakes can have a negative effect on others.
After you replied expressing your disagreement over the sources (and implied that I might be biased because I sometimes contribute to computing-related articles) I asked a number of other administrators (way more than two, actually) what they thought of the AfD's close because I wanted unbiased feedback to see if I was somehow totally off-track before I initiated a DRV. The feedback I got was fairly unanimous in that the close was problematic. Before I had a chance to draft a DRV however, you reverted your own close and relisted the AfD from scratch with a new listing. In no way did I ever "canvass" anyone to "talk to you" and if others did contact you directly, they did so at their own discretion and for their own reasons.
There indeed have been two AfDs, the first of which you closed (although one could also argue that the second was merely a relist of the first). The AN/I "discussion" you also mentioned wasn't really over this article or the first AfD, it was an attempt by someone to game AN/I when they were unable to bully me on their talk page. Please be more careful making these sort of blanket statements in the future because as I mentioned above such statements can cause problems for others. --Tothwolf (talk) 17:38, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- You're email was exactly like your reply here. You like to make threats without actually making them: "such statements can cause problems". There is very little way your email cannot be interpreted as anything other than a threat of DRV because I am a new administrator. This is all I'll say on M.O.P.'s talk page as I came here to offer honest advice and you don't seem interested in it. If you'd like to discuss further with me, you know where to find my talk page.--v/r - TP 17:51, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- TParis, in no way did I ever make an implied threat. While I may be a little blunt and abrasive at times (or maybe I'm just an assume good faith in that you simply misremembered the facts I outlined above when you made this statement here. It is easy to forget a few details here or there and not everyone maintains detailed notes for this sort of stuff (I do, for a number of reasons, although I didn't always).
As far as honest advice goes, this is a two-way street and I gave you my opinion as well. If you choose to ignore and discount it, so be it, but I'd suggest you be much more careful in the future and get your facts correct before you make the sort of statement you made above. Such statements can and do cause problems for other editors. Who knows, it may just be that you've not been around long enough yet to have witnessed people blocked or punished in some way because someone else didn't have their facts together. (If you do decide you want to continue this discussion, perhaps we should take this elsewhere.) --Tothwolf (talk) 18:14, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
]
Heaton Park Hebrew Congregation (2nd nomination)
Natami
Thought you might want to know
- (talk page stalker) That's just the same little ideological website which has been pushing for the "Martyrdom of St. Thomas Ball" attention since day one; no actual new coverage. --Orange Mike | Talk 14:34, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
- I guess I should also mention that the way I found it, was that someone tried submitting it to Fark.com last night. The admins did not greenlight it, so that particular submission/thread did not go to the main Fark page, appearing only to those with Totalfark accounts. The submission said something like "Wikipedia deletes burning man" (I'm not at a computer with TF access so I might not have that exactly right). It might, theoretically, based on the submission, be considered some sort of off-site canvassing (it was submitted with the asinine tag). For what its worth, the thread went uncommented, so I don't think that particular attempt garnered any support. I just wanted to drop a line in case that this was just the first drop of a large storm. If I see anything else, I'll drop a line here. Umbralcorax (talk) 15:58, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
Wiki ad
4chan raid
Thomas James Bell, new information
- (reliable sources. --Orange Mike | Talk 13:33, 30 June 2011 (UTC)]
Happy Birthday
![](//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3d/Nuvola_apps_cookie.svg/50px-Nuvola_apps_cookie.svg.png)
Just a happy Birthday message to you, Master of Puppets, from the Wikipedia Birthday Committee! Have a great day!
Monterey Bay (talk) 02:00, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
User:BillyMoses
Natami
AFD
- Your input is appreciated, though there's nothing I can do with it but take a note. If you'd like, you can weigh in at the next AfD(s), when/if they arise. Cheers, m.o.p 19:42, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
Dr Myko San – Health from Mushrooms
- I'd be happy to help! However, I'm currently away from a computer (typing this on my phone), so I'll have to check in on the 11th of July. Does that sound okay? m.o.p 15:40, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
- wp:NODEADLINE :-) LeadSongDog come howl! 15:48, 7 July 2011 (UTC)]
From a former Wikipedian
-71.234.90.0 (talk) 04:50, 8 July 2011 (UTC)
- Hey, thanks so much! I'm not sure who you are, but I really appreciate the sentiment. Hope all is well! m.o.p 20:49, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
Deletion review for Thomas James Ball
DRV comment
DRV
Could you please overturn the deletion of these files per File:Signature of Amitabh Bachchan.svg and File:Signature of Zakir Hussain.svg:
- File:Signature of Vishwanathan Anand.svg
- File:Signature of Vijay Mallya.svg
- File:Signature of Venkaiah Naidu.svg
- File:Signature of Sudeep Bandhopadhyay.svg
- File:Signature of Sonia Gandhi.svg
- File:Signature of Somnath Chatterjee.svg
- File:Signature of Ratan Tata.svg
- File:Signature of Kumar Mangalam Birla.svg
- File:Signature of Rajeev Shukla.svg
- File:Signature of Raj Babbar.svg
- File:Signature of Rahul Gandhi.svg
- File:Signature of Priyanka Vadra.svg
- File:Signature of P. T. Usha.svg
- File:Signature of Narendra Modi.svg
- File:Signature of Nandan Nilekani.svg
- File:Signature of Manish Tewari.svg
- File:Signature of Leander Paes.svg
- File:Signature of Lata Mangeshkar.svg
- File:Signature of Kumar Mangalam Birla.svg
- File:Signature of Karia Munda.svg
- File:Signature of Kapil Sibal.svg
- File:Signature of Kamal Nath.svg
- File:Signature of K. Kamraj.svg
- File:Signature of Jaya Bachchan.svg
- File:Signature of Gautam Gambhir.svg
- File:Signature of Brinda Karat.svg
- File:Signature of Bharatsinh Solanki.svg
- File:Signature of Bhairon Singh Shekhawat.svg
- File:Signature of B. K. Birla.svg
- File:Signature of Azim Premji.svg
- File:Signature of Arun Jaitely.svg
- File:Signature of Aishwarya Rai Bachchan.svg
- File:Signature of Abhishek Manu Singhvi.svg
- File:Signature of Abhishek Bachchan.svg
- File:Signature of Sting.svg
- File:Signature of Br. L. D. Lobo.svg
- File:Signature of VJ Rannvijay Singh Singha.svg
Diligent07Appears to be less than new. See User talk:Raoulduke25 where he states that this is a deliberate series of edits.
- Can you please help defend our collective effort of including the obscene middle-finger incident in the Cheney Mason article? It should be maintained in the article for public interest, etc. Please see the Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard#Cheney Mason discussion page and include your thoughts in favor of having the content remain in the interests of the public, etc
[8], [9] and even imputation that an editor has a connection with the person [10]. He has been on since April, and started off as being experienced on WP IMHO. Kindly keep an eye out please. Especially for any sign of a real "collective effort"? Such as [11]? Cheers. Collect (talk) 11:36, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
A cookie for you!
Keep up the good work defending the "Wiki" against genre warriors. Thanks for the help! talk) 17:31, 13 July 2011 (UTC)]
Hello. You have a new message at Lionelt's talk page.
Semi protection
OK, this thing with the militant atheism page is impossibleThese guys are incredible... I could dig up diffs to show you how they revert and wikilawyer even the SMALLEST attempt to move the article closer to NPOV. But that would take a long time for you to read. How about I show you this instead:
These guys are utterly without scruples. Who in their right mind would remove the NPOV dispute tag when heated arguments have been raging for weeks and NO moves whatsoever have been made to fix the article? Oh right, that would be someone in their right mind who is running a propaganda platform.
Anyway... I wanted to ask your advice on what to do. These guys are impossible to work with. Most of the other editors have given up and refuse to put this page on their watchlist. So what to do then? Request formal mediation? Articles for deletion? Something else?
Me and the other editors would like to see the page replaced with a disambiguation page... since literally ALL the content has already been covered (better) in Criticism of atheism, State atheism and New Atheism.
Obhave (talk) 13:21, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
- Hello User:Master of Puppets. I noticed this conversation and thought I might add that an NPOV policy. Obhave (talk) 13:11, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
- One more thing, m.o.p... my opponents are currently twisting your words to make it look as if you were scolding user:Mann_jess all along. Obhave (talk) 14:42, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
]
User:Jasper Deng page protection
- No worries! m.o.p 19:35, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
Is there a procedure for brutal uncollaborated editing with a destructive intent?I noticed that you recently had problems with proposed brutal editing by Peter S Strempel. Although he has been more sensible on your project in the end (possibly because of your administrator status?) he has not been so with regard to the astrology project pages to which he made a similar 'razor-promise'. Could you please see this Afd request which is one of three he made for major 'history of astrology' articles within the last hour, with a promise on another important page that any comment which is not refrences within 7 days will be removed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Babylonian_astrology
Is there anything that can be done about this officially to stop him wreaking havoc with content whilst he knows that the small group of editors providing content on these pages are already stretched to the limit trying to keep up with what needs to be done? I don't understand what drives some people to want to edit WP like this, but I think it is entriely the result of his ego-stress that when he proposed an edit for a passage, no one favoured it. Hope you can help or advise Zac Δ talk 01:15, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks! assume good faith; I believe that Peter is simply trying to help improve Wikipedia. While his methods may be lacking in some areas, he has displayed a pretty decent grasp on the policies he's trying to enforce.
- However, I agree that he shouldn't be making any changes if they're not discussed with the community first. Do you mind pulling up a few diffs of where he went against consensus? I'll approach him with your concern then. Thanks, m.o.p 03:57, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
- Actually there hasn't been any significant content dispute with Peter. He proposed a change to a section edit which wasn't a very good proposition and a few editors commented but without rancur, and I added a new section post immediately afterwards to point out the proiposed change would contradict with how the definition was given correctly at a later point in the article, outlining how I understood WP policy expected the main astrology article to pull its own content together, along with its summarised content from its daughter pages. Peter never responded to this but other editors started working in that direction immediately. Then, without further discussion or comment, Peter came back four days later to announce an intention to take his 'word razor' to all unreferenced assertions on the main astrology page, its sub-pages, and the portal page itself, to ensure his perceived disagreement was not circumvented in pages he viewed as content forks (I'm still not sure what he means by that). My response to that can be seen - a perfectly reasonable request for him to do what he felt was most productive, but consider that citation-tagging was the way to go. I also placed comments on his talk-page, which you can read if you are interested. That he erupted into a frenzy of AfD requests last night says something, I think, about his unwillingness to discuss and engage in other views. Most of his posts appear as new section declarations that don't appear to have considered the responses other editors give him.
- I've summarised this in the ANI request Dougweller started. The deletion requests were a step too far IMO, and I'm concerned that Peter would spring to such drastic measures in reaction to what he perceives to be me not allowing him to do what he wants to do. I'll be away for a few days so I'm tying up my WP activity now. That underlines my concern that he intends to take such drastic action with only one week's notice of intent. Thanks for looking into this. It would be good if something could be proposed to stop huge problems before they occur. 10:35, 22 July 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zachariel (talk • contribs
)
- One last request. I have just noticed that a related complaint, which is quite serious but has been sidetracked (deliberatly IMO) by Peter's suggestions that I have prevented him from doing what he wants, has been collapsed as "going nowehere" by an unsympathetic editor.
- "Its ben here several days and no admin has even sniffed at a block or ban - clearly you're not going to get admin action. So this should got to WP:DR or WP:RFCU if you want to take it further. I've boldly collapsed this, though I won't be surprised if someone uncollapses it"
- If you can find the time could you at least take a look at that related problem, and consider uncollapsing it, because the issues are serious and have gone beyond the point where Dispute resolution are appropriate. I will be away and have nothing more to add, but the problems identified still remain. Zac Δ talk 10:58, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
What to do?
- I've started a threat at ANI. Those AfDs are purely pointy and if no one objects I'll close them. talk) 06:11, 22 July 2011 (UTC)]
- Replied there. m.o.p 08:20, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
Talk Page on Militant Atheism - Introduction Section
- The update is appreciated, thanks very much. I've been dealing with life for the past two weeks, but I'll be back to close that discussion tonight or tomorrow. Thanks again, m.o.p 22:03, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
- Just bringing this up again, given the current state of this section. I believe the discussion will be archived automatically if not closed. I'm sorry if I sound pushy with you having a lot on your plate of late. If you would prefer, I could alert User:Fastily instead. Turnsalso (talk) 16:55, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
ITN
- I knew that tab I closed had unfinished business on it... thanks. 2008 University of Central Arkansas shootings is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.
The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2008 University of Central Arkansas shootings(2nd nomination) until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on good quality evidence, and our policies and guidelines.
Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article.
talk 14:00, 1 September 2011 (UTC)]
Hey
- Done! Both your userpage and the transcluded page are protected. Cheers, « ₣M₣ » 04:09, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Restored. m.o.p 05:21, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
]
User talk:Joshua the Independent
- My mistake - my block script auto-filled the edit summary. The block was issued due to the user's newfound will to disrupt Wikipedia intentionally. Their previous contributions are welcome, but this behaviour necessitates administrative action. m.o.p 21:52, 13 September 2011 (UTC)
Say hi to your imaginary girlfriend for me
- Well, I do love getting hate mail. Thanks for the laugh! Cheers, m.o.p 05:17, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
...further to the above lovely note, I weighed in on Calabe's talk page - there appears to be more confusion here than at first glance. bou·le·var·dier (talk) 05:19, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
Sorry to drop by again, but Silentsizzlingsausage (talk · contribs) would appear to be a duck. bou·le·var·dier (talk) 05:31, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
- No, it's not an issue! Thanks for the note, blocked. Cheers, WP:SPI. Thanks again, m.o.p 06:13, 14 September 2011 (UTC)]
I have to admit ...
- See the above section. The link is apparently a very subtle spam link that Calabe is removing, and socks are springing up to revert him. Swarm u / t 10:20, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
Moderation
- Alright, I'll make my way back. Thanks for letting me know! m.o.p 05:18, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
User:12.139.96.228
- To be honest, this case is perplexing. Half of this user's edits are constructive (mostly sourced), the other half aren't sourced - and the user won't reply to anybody. I'm also too busy to go through every edit and confirm whether or not it's good. I forgot about this for a while - I'll think about it tonight and figure something out for tomorrow. Thanks for reminding me! m.o.p 05:18, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
Whoops
- Whoops! Must not have been looking when I ran my block script. Thanks for letting me know, I've reblocked them for a far shorter (technically, an infinitely shorter) time. Cheers, m.o.p 22:58, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
Ashleyleggat404
- You're fully right in that the blanking policy covers indefinite blocks. I've removed the user's talk page rights as a result. Thanks again! m.o.p 00:28, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkback
Moderation
- If you look into this please consider whether Anupam's actions on the talk page and the entry itself are violations of WP:OWN. He's been driving off those he disagrees with by bludgening them to death with argument and heavily policing the entry claiming that there is a consensus written in stone despite many dissenting voices. Others have taken to simply calling him "the article's owner." I have had enough of this behavior personally and left him a message about it on his talk page. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:52, 20 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Dear User:Master of Puppets, the above user has misrepresented the occurrences at the article. I started another Introduction discussion at the article's talk page but User:Griswaldo has chosen to edit war over a second NPOV tag, despite the fact that one already exists in the article. He has done so despite the fact that the Introduction is being discussed in a peaceful manner at the talk page, in violation of your injunction: "We've only got consensus on this proposed versions (and loose consensus at that) - please do not attempt to subvert said consensus by making undiscussed changes." I have posted a message on his talk page about this behaviour. Nevertheless, I also do not wish to argue with the user personally and would prefer if you could go back to moderating the discussion between the two parties at the talk page. Thanks for taking the time to read this message. With regards, AnupamTalk 20:58, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- His "injunction?" Adding a neutrality tag to a specific sentence which an editor disputes the neutrality of is hardly "subverting the consensus by making undiscussed changes." Please stop wikilawyering to get your way. There is a growing consensus against your position regarding this article in general as well, despite your aggressive policing of the entry and the talk page. See ]
- I just thought that I would mention that User:Griswaldo, after seeing this message, just now decided to comment in the discussion rather than edit war against consensus further. Thanks for taking the time to read this message. With regards, AnupamTalk 21:51, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- "Edit war against consensus further?" My comment there has nothing to do with your message here. I've made three total edits to this entry ever. One was a copy edit in June, another was reverting an IP vandal, and the third was the revert of your Ownership edit. Please do not insinuate that I'm a edit warrior on this page. It is disingenuous.Griswaldo (talk) 22:08, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Thank you all for approaching me with your concerns.
- Obviously, I do not support Anupam - this is because I'm remaining a neutral third party, and, therefore, can't take sides. However, Griswaldo: please keep in mind that I did ask for all discussion to take place on the talk page. Why not just add your complaints to the talk page? It would have been much easier to discuss.
- I do agree that adding a NPOV tag, while slightly redundant, isn't horrible, but your intent seems to have been to stir discussion on that particular section, discussion that would be much more appropriate on the talk page.
- As for your and Snalwibma's concerns of Anupam trying to 'own' the article, I'm curious as to what you two mean; what 'delusions'?
- Also, Griswaldo, I don't think Anupam meant to insinuate you are an edit warrior (though this is just my take) - rather, they wanted to add the note that you've weighed in on discussion. m.o.p 22:10, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- your intent seems to have been to stir discussion on that particular section - No that's incorrect. I didn't add this tag, I simply reverted Anupam's attempt to own the page when he removed it. I agreed with JimWae's addition of the tag and found Anupam's removal to be unwarranted and a display of ownership.Griswaldo (talk) 22:16, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Note that, for all intents and purposes, reverting somebody is adding whatever is included in your edit, regardless of who put it there first. You revert a removal, you're agreeing with the edition you're reverting to - simple.
- And, if you agreed with JimWae, then we go back to what I was saying earlier - say so on the talk page. Two of you agree? Great! That's closer to consensus. But it means nothing if you express your support by reverting removals.
- Again, as I've asked multiple times, please stop saying that Anupam is owning anything without giving me evidence of it first. m.o.p 22:22, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Dear User:Master of Puppets, thank you for your reply to all of us. The reason User:Snalwibma stated that I was attempting to "own" the article was because I reverted an undiscussed removal from the article, which not only myself, but two other users objected to. In fact, two anonymous IP Addresses also reverted User:Snalwibma. I was open to compromise on the issue and stated that I would accept User:Turnsalso's compromise on the issue. I kindly request you to look at that discussion yourself and get an honest reading of it. Also, the only reason I removed the second NPOV tag was because there was already one present, which I did not remove. I only reverted the addition of a second NPOV tag once and even explained myself on the talk page. When I went to the talk page, I found rude accusations and an anti-collaborative spirit, despite the fact that I have been nothing but polite. I hope this helps. With regards, AnupamTalk 22:25, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry - I know I should not rise to the bait, but I have to object to the comment "The reason User:Snalwibma stated that I was attempting to 'own' the article was because I reverted an undiscussed removal ..." How dare Anupam presume to know what is in my mind! The reason I describe Anupam's attitude to the article as one of ownership is because that is how s/he behaves - "policing" every edit, pronouncing on whether s/he "accepts" or "rejects" it, peremptorily reverting anything s/he does not like, without discussion, presuming to know others' motives, and judging them as fit/unfit to contribute to the article. This has been going on for weeks, if not months. It is impossible to discuss the content of the article, let alone improve the text, because everything is filtered through the approval/disapproval of the article's self-appointed guardian, Anupam. tendentious or disruptive when they bring up certain issues, even when they are clearly in the majority. That is not collaborative. I stopped editing the article heavily because of those issues. I don't have any delusions that my opinion is worth more than anyone else's here, but I would think that the large number of established, experienced editors who are all saying there's a problem, would indicate something. — Jess· Δ♥ 19:45, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
Please reconsider your full protection of Militant atheist
- In case you didn't notice, I asked that people think twice about pointing fingers at each other. If you'd like to start a sockpuppetry investigation, let me know, and we can take that avenue - however, don't accuse other editors of ownership without substance. If you think Anupam is trying to own things, give me something. Diffs, edits, anything. I'll check it out for you, but right now, baseless accusations are not what I'm looking for.
- Also, notice that I protected the article with your edit being the last one. How is that validating the very person you've been reverting?
- The protection will stay until consensus is reached. m.o.p 22:19, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Because protection is what he wants quite clearly. He's stalling conversation and shouting down people on the talk page, where, if you have a look, you'll see he's clearly in the minority. Because of your "injunction" as he calls it, he also claims that no matter how many people agree with a certain change it is illegitimate. I'll be happy to gather some diffs, but my first message to you above was to please look into the situation carefully before acting on it. Did you do that and come to the conclusion that I'm wrong or did you not head that request? Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:29, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Yes, I did heed your request. I don't see any ownership behaviour from Anupam, though, being involved in multiple disputes, I didn't have the time to read every last word on the page, so you're free to provide evidence. However, from what I can see, Anupam's last proposal was supported by the majority - not to count (and I don't mean to imply that I decide where consensus lies by looking at pure numbers), but from looking at pure supports versus opposes, eight people (nine including Anupam) support while four oppose. How does that make Anupam's views a minority? m.o.p 22:37, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- It depends on what view you are talking about. The current RFC on the introduction is something that most people don't even want to engage because most people think this very entry should be split up and integrated into other entries. I reluctantly engaged the RfC just now myself. The last time the more serious question about the entry was asked, several of the new commentators were not around, and there was "no consensus" found because the opposing side was chalk full of SPAs and editors with a view that is outright hostile to atheism (which is a legitimate view to hold, but it is a minority view). Let me find you some diffs.Griswaldo (talk) 22:43, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- User:Griswaldo, that is exactly the issue: you do not want to collaborate with other users on the talk page, which is why you were reluctant to participate in the current RfC. Moreover, there were several SPA's on the side of the opposition as well, including WP:NPOV. In addition, the split was again recently discussed and the specific case to do so was refuted by several editors. As such, there was no consensus for it. I hope this helps. With regards, AnupamTalk 22:52, 20 September 2011 (UTC)]
- No. You are trying to write an article that violates WP:SYNTH because it conflates New Atheism with oppressive communist regimes and their histories of violence. That's hardly NPOV. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:59, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
Hi m.o.p., as someone who occasionally looks at that page (and then washes my hands), I just want to compliment you as having done the right thing in full protecting. By way of unsolicited advice to the involved editors, the best thing they could do is to allow The Wrong Version to sit there a good long time, and devote their energy to other things. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:54, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
]
Yes, please reconsider your full protection of
WP:RS—deserve protection against misinformed reverts. Thanks Geremia (talk) 16:12, 22 September 2011 (UTC)]
Diffs of
- I'm not really sure where the ownership is here; nowhere in our policies is it stated that a user can't promote their RFC on the subject talk page. If it's ongoing and they'd like to move it to the forefront, what's wrong with that? More so, some of your summaries seem inaccurate - in that last diff, you state that Anupam is removing images, yet I only see Anupam adding an image (the peace dove that's at the top of the page). Also, you use repeating examples. m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Well clearly the last diff was wrong. Thanks for the vote of confidence. There are no repeat examples nor inaccurate summaries, just a mistaken copy paste of the second to last diff to the last position as well. I have fixed it. Cheers.
- Using "consensus claims from one RfC to reject changes made to article content
- Same as above. Using the "consensus" bludgeon to get his way. Please note that clearly we ought to edit by consensus, but this consensus is highly disputed, and IMO not there in the first place. The real problem is the way in which Anupam decides to use it like a trump card to remove changes he doesn't like. Ask yourself if all changes post "consensus" have been removed or just the ones Anupam decided he wanted removed.
Master of Puppets do you need more diffs or is this enough?Griswaldo (talk) 23:31, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Well I need more diffs because your "evidence" so far looks like a desperate attempt to incriminate an editor who has been very successful in persuading his colleagues to adopt his proposals. Anupam has presented his proposals, argued the merits and persuaded many editors. Anything you want to tell us about why you're having difficulty doing likewise? – Lionel (talk) 06:02, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- I don't see this is as conclusive evidence, either. And, it should be said - if people are editing against established consensus, then people are free to re-evaluate consensus, but edit-warring against it doesn't make much sense. m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- If not ownership then what is this - [28], [29], [30]? He removes two RfCs started by another editor, and revolving around the question that many of us actually find to be the fundamental question to answer regarding the entry. Then he edit wars to keep these RfCs off the page, claiming again to have some sort of authority stemming from your prior actions. If you aren't willing to do something here I'm going to another administrator and I'm going to ask for your initial "consensus," your strong arm administrating, and your lack of action here to be reviewed as well. Thanks.Griswaldo (talk) 17:08, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Anupam has already apologized for reverting those RfC additions, and we've moved past it. He also didn't claim to have administrative authority, but was waiting for my approval. We've cleared this up, it's not an issue. So no, I'm not going to take any action (as I've said here and on ANI). Now, if you'd like to threaten me and tell me that, since I'm not cooperating with your wills, you'll go to another administrator, that's fine - as I've said, you can seek outside opinions - but remember to keep a cool head, because borderline threats are not appreciated. m.o.p 21:49, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- It was not a threat, "borderline" or otherwise. You are conveniently ignoring a growing number of voices who are all saying the same thing - there is an ownership problem here. The deletion issue has not been "cleared up" as far as I'm concerned. Whenever it is mentioned Anupam insists that he did not "unilaterally" delete the RfCs from the page, which is a blatant distortion, since that is exactly what he did. He continues to act as a policeman at the page, and yes he does continue to cite your authority. Did you bother to read the many diffs I posted above in the second two sections? I will quote three random examples from those I provided for you if you want.
- When he first deleted the two RfCs he wrote: "rv - see discussion with reviewing administrator; approval needed to start another RfC while one is already occurring."
- When he deleted a fact tag that JimWae put into the lede: "rv excessive tagging per talk; tag is already extant in header; do not subvert previous consensus but gain consensus for potential additions per administrative notice"
- When he rejected another recent change to the entry: "accepted edits by User:Jkhwiki; rv removal of longstanding referenced content - see discussion on talk page and gain consensus for action per administrative injunction"
- In talk page comments and in edit summaries he consistently does the same thing. He refers to your authority, either directly or indirectly through your "notice" or your "injunction" as he likes to call it. I never said the claimed to have administrative authority, I said that he's using your authority, by way of your comments, such as the closure of the AfD to bully people. Do you deny that he citing your comments, because if you do then I must have fabricated those quotes. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:32, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
If you say "If you don't do A, then I'm going to go and do B", that's a threat. Anyway, that's not the issue - we've already covered all the issues with the RfC reverting, and Anupam won't do it again. Why keep raising hell over it?
We've already covered everything you bring up. And no, I'm not denying anything. I'm just saying this, and it's very simple: I don't think there has been any blatant ownership here. That's my judgment. If you disagree, again, feel free to raise this with another administrator or on ANI. m.o.p 23:12, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Regarding the new RFC, I still think there has not passed yet too much time since the last discussion about splitting the article. As far as I knew, repeating these sorts of debates (like splitting, deleting, renaming) before a larger amount of time has passed (like 6 months) is usually discouraged. And as others have also argued earlier, even if having multiple RFCs is possible, it's not very useful, and the new RFC seems to discourage further discussion about improving the lead introduction. So preventing multiple RFCs (and also a RFC about an issue debated not too long ago) does not look to me like evidence of bad faith intentions. Cody7777777 (talk) 21:37, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Cody, would you mind linking me to the previous RfC on splitting? m.o.p 21:49, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- The previous attempt to split the article can be found here. Cody7777777 (talk) 21:55, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Response
Yes, it does. Thanks, m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Dear User:Master of Puppets, I just noticed that User:Binksternet started another RfC while a current one is occurring. Is this appropriate? I reverted the addition motioning for one until your response is confirmed. If it is acceptable, then I apologize and will revert my edit. I look forward to your response. With regards, AnupamTalk 15:14, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'll form my reply on ANI. m.o.p 17:12, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- When you do please take into account my comment just above, regarding Anupam's edit warring to remove talk page comments (namely these RfCs) posted by others on the talk page. If you still don't think this is WP:OWN then clearly other administrators are needed here.Griswaldo (talk) 17:15, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Dear User:Griswaldo, how is going to a neutral mediator to address the issue owning the article? I acknowledge that the article is in dispute and as a result, I am asking an administrator for advice in this matter, NOT handling things on my own, as you have done by edit warring. Your WP:OWN allegations have not only been dismissed by this administrator, but by several other users, including, User:Lionelt, User:Cody7777777 and User:NYyankees51. Thanks, AnupamTalk 17:27, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- In reply to Griswaldo: reverting the RfCs was a mistake, but we've cleared that up now. As Anupam has stated at ANI, the intent was not to discourage discussion. If you think my judgment is compromised, you're welcome to seek another administrator's input. m.o.p 21:04, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- And as further evidence of WP:OWN, see this. Anupam adds a comment to everything that anyone else says, as if he/she is the owner of the article and everyone else is a subordinate contributor. This particular instance is pretty benign (although it clutters up the talk page with an unnecessary comment that merely says "I agree"), but I do think that Anupam at least needs to learn how to avoid giving the appearance of thinking he/she owns the article, and to desist from chipping in and saying the same thing over and over again, which almost makes meaningful discussion impossible! SNALWIBMA ( talk - contribs ) 17:31, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- While the input is appreciated, as I've said before, making allegations of ownership without hard evidence isn't going to get us anywhere. Anupam is not stopping others from discussing changes or forming consensus, and that's all that matters - refactoring the talk page or commenting on an issue is not against policy, and I'm not going to tell someone to stop editing because it "looks" like they're doing something wrong. As said above, you're welcome to request another administrator's insight if you wish. m.o.p 21:04, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
COIHi
you've helped me out before, with a conflict of interest problem, so having much more experience than me on wikipedia, I thought I would be bold enough to ask again for help.
Similar problem to last, User_talk:Hobbycraft is editing the HOBBYCRAFT article and making changes that aren't citably right. I think the user name suggest and history suggests a conflict of interest case.
Can you please, speak to them addressing this issue.
Thank you very much for your help.
Markcoulter50 (talk) 22:27, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
- I've blocked that user for username violations. Thanks a lot for letting me know! Keep up the great work, m.o.p 23:00, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkbackcausa sui (talk) 18:47, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Hello. You have a new message at causa sui's talk page. causa sui (talk) 20:54, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Problematic editing on militant atheism
- I hope it's not considered defamatory to repeat the final line: "I merely present the diffs above, and let others draw their own conclusions. Is this a duck? Does it quack? You decide.". Unfortunately, the concerned community no longer has that opportunity. What did you decide on their behalf? Does this duck quack, or not? bobrayner (talk) 15:42, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- It's not your wording, it's the very idea of it. Going to what's allegorically a public place and shouting, "Hey, everybody, this man is a criminal!" is one step below blatantly forming a lynch mob. As I've said, I have no problem with your wording or evidence, just your location of choice. Wikipedia is not, unfortunately, a democracy - letting others draw their conclusions and voice their opinions is not how a sockpuppet investigation works.
- So yes, please don't go restoring any of that section. We're not discussing editors, we're discussing the content they produce. Anything else has a sub-board to deal with it (like WP:SPI).
- Hopefully that clears things up! I'll be happy to answer any more questions should you have them. Cheers, m.o.p 15:48, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Hello User:Bobrayner, I noticed the section you created on the militant atheism talk page. If you do feel the way you do about User:Turnsalso and the anonymous IP Addresses, you can take this up with WP:SPI. Thanks, AnupamTalk 15:52, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
Are you kidding my MoP? Above your write: Going to what's allegorically a public place and shouting, "Hey, everybody, this man is a criminal!" is one step below blatantly forming a lynch mob. AND We're not discussing editors, we're discussing the content they produce. Yet you call this edit by Lionelt "good faith," at WQA? MoP, I would not ask you to agree with me or to like me, but can I please ask you not to insult me with these double standards.Griswaldo (talk) 16:18, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
]
- Griswaldo, I mean no offense when I say this, but I'd appreciate it if you stayed out of discussions which didn't involve you. Also, please don't put words in my mouth. Thanks, m.o.p 16:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I have not put words in your mouth. You said that you would assume good faith about Lionel. If you "assume good faith" it means you assume his edits were in "good faith." If you did not intend that meaning I suggest you reconsider what you wrote. Also, if you want me to "stay out of discussion which don't involve me" then I suggest your first order of business should be to do the same thing yourself. You decided to post at WQA, when there was no mention of you or anything you've done in that thread. Once again, I expect people not to practice double standards. So as long as you cannot show me that you will treat me as you ask to be treated yourself, I will not oblige you. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:21, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Please stop bickering. I'm not quite sure what you're trying to accomplish here. I've already explained what I meant when I said assuming good faith, but I'll explain again: I assumed that Lionelt was not hounding or deliberately haranguing you. I did not say, at any point, that his edit content was good faith, and I've told him not to edit like that again. So please stop accusing me of saying things I haven't said.
- Also, I posted in WQA because, as a mediator in this case and as an administrator, it's my duty to weigh in on administrative noticeboards, especially when the case is an ongoing discussion I've been participating in for three months. It is not your duty to weigh in on discussions on my talk page that don't concern you. I hope the distinction is clear here. m.o.p 20:33, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I think you are confused about something. Content is never good faith. "Editing in good faith" and "good faith edits" refers to the intent of the editor always. It has nothing to do with content. My assumption that you also felt the edits were appropriate comes from the fact that you did not say they weren't appropriate and clearly feel that his intentions were good. If you'd like to set the record straight on that issue you still can. I've asked you twice now to discuss the actual edits that are the focal point of the thread. Also, I moved the thread to ANI, per the suggestion of the editor who marked it "resolved."Griswaldo (talk) 20:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- See Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#User:Lionelt_--_following_my_past_edits_to_drum_up_support_against_me. FYI, I copy pasted the entire discussion because both you and Collect were critical of my initial post and I thought it was the right thing to do to preserve that criticism in the record of the conversation. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:43, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- In reply to your first paragraph: I'm going to give up now, as it seems you're misunderstanding most of what I type, but you're the one who stated that the content was not good faith (as you said, not appropriate), and I agreed - I referred to his intent in replying to you, and said that I assumed good faith in his motives, not his replies. I can't really say that in a clearer way, so my apologies if it's hard to understand. Also, as I've already said, I've left a message for Lionelt about his edits, so clearly I do not feel they're appropriate. m.o.p 20:57, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I, too, find these double standards vexing.
- Which diff is defamatory?
- I had hitherto thought that people on the article talkpage might like to be aware of potential problems with votestacking on the article talkpage (and 3rr evasion, of course). Would it be permitted to add a link to that list of diffs when it's in a different place, or would you consider that defamatory too? bobrayner (talk) 16:23, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- As I said, the information is not defamatory, but the way it's presented is - we have specific processes available to pursue should one feel there are sockpuppets about. However, calling someone out with the intent of informing the community is overstepping your authority and damaging to the accused's character. Also, there's no way a community discussion about whether or not one editor is a sockpuppet can end in anything other than a sockpuppet investigation anyway.
- So, in closing, please don't bring issues like this to the talk page. If you're concerned about votestacking, take it to the appropriate venue - if your concerns are validated, we'll take measures against said puppets. Cheers, m.o.p 16:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I am very disappointed that it's no longer permissible to raise problems with article-editing on the article talkpage. Previous concerns about sockpuppetry were simply ignored; the difference this time is that it's backed by lots of diffs.
- I'm fairly confident that the people concerned have sufficient technical nous to make checkuser draw a blank. And, let's be entirely honest, within minutes of me creating an SPI, an admin of the right persuasion will be getting an email suggesting that an SPI needs their attention. And SPI does not see offsite coordination by a facebook group &c. Finally, any null result at SPI will be used at the article in much the same way as previous administrative decisions have been. So, I do not believe that an SPI will improve either the article, or the encyclopædia as a whole. bobrayner (talk) 17:08, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- If you don't think the pre-existing methods set in place for situations like this are sufficient, you can always raise that concern at the village pump or suggest a policy revision - however, SPI is the venue for these requests, and the only venue. The talk page can not substitute. m.o.p 17:10, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
76.228.226.122Thank you for blocking the anonymous user, who is being counterproductive and rude. (although I think the block should have been one week, but I guess ok at least)
Can you also please try to hide the edit summaries of these edits if possible?
This and
this
Thanks and regards, talk 05:04, 26 September 2011 (UTC)]
- I'll extend the block if this behaviour continues after the block period is over.
- As for the edit summaries, those don't warrant hiding - I apologize for their content, but they don't meet the criteria of what I should remove. It's best just to ignore them for now. Cheers, m.o.p 05:13, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
- Okay, good to know, if I did nothing wrong, no permanent block will be enforced. The IP does not volunteer on WP as an admin and so the disproportionately out of line comments and threats of his should be ignored. --talk 05:19, 26 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Sounds good. We only hide extremely offensive revisions; milder ones stay in the edit history. Thanks again for bringing this to our attention! Cheers, m.o.p 05:31, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
Email
Jasper Deng (talk) 05:29, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
- Reading. talk) 06:00, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Bad Girls Club
- I've blocked Junebea for 2 days for disregarding warnings. m.o.p 20:30, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks for helping :) Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 21:06, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkback
- And again.Griswaldo (talk) 04:24, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
- And again ... but maybe the last. You can settle this question once and for all. See the talk page.Griswaldo (talk) 06:09, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'm sure I'm not alone in wanting to hear your replies to the last responses posed to you at that page. IMO, I don't know why you went down the road you did, but as far as I can tell you're blatantly misrepesenting facts about your own actions when people are brining concerns to you. You might think that since you closed the RfC the matter is settled, but it is not. You're actions have not made my life any more pleasant in the last few days vis-a-vis trying to deal with Anupam's disruption and I think you owe us all answers. So please revisit this thread and deal with the open questions. Thanks.Griswaldo (talk) 02:19, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
- I invite you to stop asking the same question again and again. This would be appreciated. Thanks, m.o.p 02:33, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Block question
- No, I just block obviously bad-faith accounts on sight. Advertising/spam accounts fall under that category. m.o.p 00:37, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Thanks
- Thank you. I've unlocked the article for whatever may come. If I'm needed again, feel free to let me know. Thanks for the kind words again, m.o.p 05:12, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
reminder
- We're still waiting to see if the user understands COI policy (per Ed's question). I'll prod the user and see if they'll answer. talk) 19:20, 30 September 2011 (UTC)]
Nextel logo deleted
- Mmm, good point. What's the link to the logo in question? m.o.p 01:33, 2 October 2011 (UTC)
Support of Sage City SymphonyYou deleted this page before I had a chance to go back in and add the stuff that you wanted to see, including the links within Wikipedia to important composers such as Lou Callabro (who started this orchestra and cites it in his Wikipedia page) and Susan Hurley whose work we premiered (SC is also mentioned in her Wikipedia entry). (Let alone links about the works we have performed.) And we have a web site at www.sagecitysymphony.org, have existed for over 35 yrs and are a significant cultural resource in the Bennington area such that we receive grants from local, statewide and national foundations.
I broke my wrist last weekend and am doing one-handed pecking so it'll take me a few days to get that loaded in. We are going out for a bit now, but I would appreciate your undeleting the page so that I don't have to re-invent the starting part when I go back in tomorrow to add links. Or delete it entirely so that I can start fresh - at this point either would work as long as I can start some serious work on it tomorrow. I am the webmaster by the way, so I do have access to content and more links.
Thank you, Celia Murray — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.228.127.119 (talk) 14:22, 1 October 2011 (UTC)
- It looks like fixed everything up. Best of luck, m.o.p 01:35, 2 October 2011 (UTC)]
Reply on Deterence's talk page
MA
After the beating you took you deserve a cold one--on me! Thanks for being fair and balanced – Lionel (talk) 03:55, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
- Hey, thanks! Glad to help out. :) m.o.p 03:56, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
Deletion of Mau5trap Recordings
--neocharles (talk) 07:33, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Existence does not equal notability - the subject has to be notable to get a Wikipedia page. m.o.p 12:05, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
Questoin re: AIV
- Addendum, actually, I read it very clearly in WP:VANDNOT: "Uploading or using material on Wikipedia in violation of Wikipedia's copyright policies is prohibited, but is not vandalism unless the user does so maliciously or fails to heed warnings." So if a person fails to heed warnings it is vandalism. My mistake here was that I only warned once. --Muhandes (talk) 12:29, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Eh, technically it is vandalism, but the user seems to be trying to improve the Wikipedia - that desire to help is misplaced in this case, as they seem to think that using copyrighted content is actually better. Weird. For most cases, yes, you should report copyvio to AIV - as long as they've been warned sufficiently. m.o.p 12:42, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- OK, he now did it again and the time stamp is after your last warning. Is it vandalism now? --Muhandes (talk) 12:32, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Yeah, if they're outright ignoring warnings. I've blocked for three days. m.o.p 12:40, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
Classmusic
- Oh, I know. But if somebody's lied to my face about using another account - and to other editors working on the article - I'm not about to let them go without a repercussion or two. I'd like Almost-instinct and Voceditnore to look over the article and fix up anything shifty. Also, I'd like Classmusic to respond to my warning, instead of blanking it and ignoring like they have to the above-named editors.
- So, in short, I know that COI doesn't bar editing, but it's enough of a concern that, given the user's recent behaviour, I'll stop them from doing anything until we've figured things out. This isn't too rouge-y, is it? I didn't hear that. Perhaps he is unaware of the sockpuppet investigation findings. Anyhow it seems that DeltaQuad has also blocked the Classmusic account. I left a note on his page about using the unblock template, but re-iterated that he needs to read the COI and Autobiography guidelines and stick to them scrupulously, if he gets unblocked. In the Opera and Classical Music WikiProjects, we get a lot of articles for performers, ensembles, etc. created by their agents and PR people, and often themselves. In my experience, the best I can hope for after one of these tussles is that they'll edit their article according to the guidelines in future. I have yet to find a single one who has ever contributed anything else to Wikipedia. Their only interest in the project is as a PR tool. Having said that, at least it results (after much red-pencilling from other editors) in one new article on a notable subject that we didn't have before and in a small way redresses the pop culture systemic bias here. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 13:40, 5 October 2011 (UTC)]
Danish election
- Never mind, it's been pulled by another admin. All the best, Jenks24 (talk) 11:03, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry about that! I was busy all day and didn't get your message until now. Thanks for letting me know, though! Cheers, m.o.p 19:51, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
3RRHey there! :)
Well WP:CRYSTAL has wined down, however, there's currently a
The Bad Girls Club (season 7). I have notified the two users [32], [33]. The evidence can be found here. They are having an edit-conflict on how the "Duration of cast" should be presented. Since there's no rules regarding anything like that, and it was made up about a year ago, I couldn't warned them to stop their e/c with anything except the 3RR rule. Maybe they need an admin to tell them to stop, so that's why I came to you :) Thanks, Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 01:17, 6 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Temporary page protection requested. Calabe1992 (talk) 01:29, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
E-Mail
nice guyhiii master of puppets,
ok do u know the movie Twilght saga ?
rply me back i want 2 talk 2 u a lot because i like ur pesonalty.BY
talk) 11:58, 28 April 2011 (UTC)]
File source problem with File:MoPuppetarmy.pngThank you for uploading File:MoPuppetarmy.png. I noticed that the file's description page currently doesn't specify who created the content, so the copyright status is unclear. If you did not create this file yourself, you will need to specify the owner of the copyright. If you obtained it from a website, please add a link to the website from which it was taken, together with a brief restatement of that website's terms of use of its content. However, if the copyright holder is a party unaffiliated from the website's publisher, that copyright should also be acknowledged.
If you have uploaded other files, consider verifying that you have specified sources for those files as well. You can find a list of files you have created in your upload log. Unsourced and untagged images may be deleted one week after they have been tagged per Wikipedia's criteria for speedy deletion, F4. If the image is copyrighted and non-free, the image will be deleted 48 hours after 11:44, 11 May 2011 (UTC) per speedy deletion criterion F7. If the file is already gone, you can still make a request for undeletion and ask for a chance to fix the problem. You may wish to read the Wikipedia's image use policy. If you have any questions or are in need of assistance please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. Magog the Ogre (talk) 11:44, 11 May 2011 (UTC)
The Deputy
- Thanks for your reply. My concern was not that Jayjg indicated he would rewrite and did not do so, but that he had agreed to allow more of the disputed section in the article rather than a dismissive sentence or two, but when editors began to delete the entire section based on frivolous reasons, he supported it. It appears now that we have, or are in the process of reaching a resolution. The section is now in the article, reduced substantially to account of Jayjg's concers about undue weight. Mamalujo (talk) 18:40, 27 May 2011 (UTC)
Carla Rushing page deletion
Any further discussion of Sarah Palin will result in a warning, and then a temporary block. Thank you!Hmmm, that might be just a tad excessive. We don't want to suppress all discussion, because that's when the pressure has nowhere to go, and people will go and meatball:ExpandScope.
Since scope is already expanded to international media, forcing scope to expand further might be a bit of a Bad Idea (tm). I recommend Not Going There.
If we're really intent on keeping discussions off of WP, we can always create a wikinews article, and link to the "discuss this article" page.
However, at the moment, people seem to be keeping it down to a dull roar anyway.
--Kim Bruning (talk) 22:44, 6 June 2011 (UTC)
- I think you caught my side point, but I'd like to stress the part I'm trying to tell you to watch out for!
- Long term empirical experience shows that attempts to curtail discussion on wikipedia will not slow down the internet discussion elsewhere (or even on wikipedia). Instead, that's exactly what will feed it more and more steam. So Don't Do That.
- Experience shows that the following approaches work:
- Try to centralize all (spurious) discussion in one place
- keep it as focused on encyclopedic work as possible.
- Treat the new users like new users. They don't know our rules yet. Teach them!
- The foundation would like to see us be more welcoming towards new users. That's a good idea! Let's do that.
- --Kim Bruning (talk) 00:26, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
- And... it went to AN/I (see below) --Kim Bruning (talk) 01:33, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
Edit Notice on Paul RevereYou seem to be asserting some admin right to quench discussion on the talk page by blocking and/or warning with the editnotice that I don't think we have, by policy. IAR doesn't cover stomping on people, no matter how annoying a particular conversation is.
Kelly started a
WP:ANI discussion on this.
Followups probably best on ANI as I am sure others will want to comment. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 01:15, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
- On review - I'm going to blank the edit notice now. If an ANI consensus develops to support restoring it then I'll not object at all, but I think it's novel and enough of a stretch that the default should be "no" unless consensus develops otherwise. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 01:19, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
How does a user find a mentor?
Helen Lucy Burke
Talkback
I did what you asked but the IP reverted it again. PTJoshua (talk) 21:09, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
- You're removing everything I say. Please don't do this. It isn't helpful. --86.45.75.42 (talk) 21:19, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
- I'll talk to them. Sit tight for a second. m.o.p 21:10, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
RE: Deletion of 48gogreen page :ApalejaHello,
Thank you for quick response. I appreciate your reason. but if you do some research you'll find more then 4 or 5 substantial mentions in local or international media - in a newspaper, on a notable website, etc. - to put forward this article.
There is a link on official website of company. http://www.48gogreen.com/static/web
Looking forward for your response. thank you in advance to undelete article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Apaleja (talk • contribs) 08:03, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
Here are some articles from International Press (you can use Google translator-if you use chrome it'll provide option immediately):
http://www.regione.emilia-romagna.it/wcm/cinema/sezioni_primopiano/PrimoPiano/Gadoev.htm
http://domani.arcoiris.tv/girano-un-corto-in-48-ore-e-arrivano-dritti-a-cannes/
http://www.close-up.it/spip.php?article6724
http://www.flashvideo.it/news/9/2578/
http://www.radioemiliaromagna.it/cultura/cinema/videomaker_bolognesi_cannes_corto_ecologico.aspx
Also if YOU HAD READ careful our site you should have see the Press link (those are press links not blogs) with all these web press: http://www.48gogreen.com/static/web
Thank you — Preceding unsigned comment added by Apaleja (talk • contribs) 08:22, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
Final warning On Edit Warring of Efik language disputeIf My Reporting a false article is the reason you want to block me. Then Go ahead and BLOCK me.- I can be Block because I don't care to be part of a web/Encyclopedia of Lies! Although I have contributed anonymously to wikipedia since 2008, I only just signed on a few weeks ago to report an error that I thought was made. But you and your other BIASED administrators have refused to fix this error, instead you're all threatening to block me.
- : According to Wikipedia A false statement/article is removed immediatley it is realized. Yet as am reporting it you all are threatening me for causing disruption.
- You all are saying that I called I called Kwami Slow, Dumb etc. Yet Kwami used the words Ignorance first.
"As for Ukwa, your ignorance is not evidence of anything".
- What is the meaning of IGNORANCE? S/He also said;
"But we cannot have the same article under two names, nor an article on Ibibio-Efik that does not include Ibibio, nor an article on Efik that does not include Efik. A little common sense would be helpful."
- What is meaning of Common sense? Or because Kwami put it very nicely, and mine wasn't? Also I wasn't blanking the Efik page, since I just signed on it takes me a long while to write up an article. According to the statements above, Kwami said I could develop articles on Efik and Ibibio, that is what I was doing when you or your other BIASED administrators returned the articles back to the re-direct.
- : Since wikipedia says a false statement is fixed immediately it is reported, I explained out the mistakes, but Kwami kept insisting that me a native who speaks these languages was wrong and asked for sources. I provided the sources and Kwami Called A brilliant Historian who is a Million times more knowledgable than Kwami on the language;
"utterly ignorant AND not some random idiot who posted a web page".
- Yet you and your other Biased colleges are claiming that am the one attacking Kwami and causing a disruption.
- : Am done with Wikipedia, am going to be taking this issues to the Founder/head by email, once the Ibibio union are involved it might become a legal matter if Wikipedia still continues to portray this misleading information.
I will take this matter to the heads by Email first because they might not be aware of what you all supposed administrators are doing to their image. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ibibiogrl (talk • contribs) 21:41, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
Hi Mops,
Pls read my comments on the ANI page. I think Ibibiogrl means well, she just needs some guidance, and she's not willing to take it from me. — kwami (talk) 22:17, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
- Obviously we would like to have contributors from that part of the world, but Ibibiogrl's record here is so unpromising that I think we need good assurances that something will change in the future. (I would welcome any evidence that Ibibiogrl means well. It is hard to improve the encyclopedia when you have no interest in or respect for its policies. Read her statement above if you are uncertain about that). Mentorship has value only for someone who understands that something has gone wrong and would be willing to work with a mentor. EdJohnston (talk) 22:46, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
- I agree with Ed in this case - I have no grudge against Ibibiogrl, but the editor's attitude, despite multiple pleas for otherwise, remained combative and even insulting at points. If there's a serious expression of guilt and the editor decides they'd like to walk a different path, I'd be happy to help. However, as it is now, I believe the block should stand. m.o.p 22:52, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
- I agree that it would require some indication that she wants help. Just my 2¢ as the person she's most upset with. — kwami (talk) 23:05, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
- For the record, your input is highly appreciated, and very admirable; as the editor in conflict with her, I respect your neutrality and helpfulness. As for Ibibiogrl, we'll see where that goes. Cheers! m.o.p 00:59, 17 June 2011 (UTC)
Can you adopt me i want a new adopter.
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Mr. Pit (2nd nomination)
This isn't personalI belive the AFD on Campaign for "santorum" neologism was closed way to early and am contesting your close.
An editor has asked for a deletion review of Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2011 June 21. Because you closed the deletion discussion for this page, speedily deleted it, or otherwise were interested in the page, you might want to participate in the deletion review. KoshVorlon' Naluboutes Aeria Gloris 12:17, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
James Ball
Thank you for your concern. But I will not be blocked - _I am adding_ wikipedia to adblock. I also feel regret for having donated to the site before, but this will not happen again. Demonuminon (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 23:25, 23 June 2011 (UTC).
Thomas James BallWhy the hell did you delete his page?
Does his suffering mean nothing to you?
Heartless bitch. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.57.206.141 (talk • contribs)
Hey, Master of Puppets, OBVIOUSLY there is a public interested in keeping this article. Restore your deletion. Look at the massive flood of comments regarding your deletion here: http://www.<linkremoved>.com/2011/06/24/the-organized-silencing-of-a-man-publicly-burned-to-death/ and here http://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/i81rw/the_organized_silencing_of_a_man_publicly_burned/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Romerom (talk • contribs) 20:05, 24 June 2011 (UTC)
- Ball HIT A FOUR-YEAR-OLD CHILD, refused to pay child support, called for insurrection, demanded terrorism and violence as a solution, ultimately killed himself (leaving his children without a father) and damaged public property in the process. Even after all that, his incoherent message has mostly been ignored except by the less discriminating people claiming to speak for "men's rights" who haven't bothered to look into the details of his case. (If you really want to damage your cause, adopt a grown man who hits his own four-year-old child and flakes out on his child support as your poster boy.) --Orange Mike | Talk 20:26, 24 June 2011 (UTC) (proud father who has never hit his child in his lifetime)
Hey, "proud father who never hit his child in his lifetime", not everybody is against disciplining their children by spanking. He said his daughter was licking his hand, and he had told her repeatedly to stop. She didn't, and he smacked her. He didn't punch her, or send her to the hospital, or cause any serious injury. Just enough to have his wife baited into calling the police on him by child protective services. As for child support, he paid his child support until the point where he wasn't able to afford it due to an employment issue. Is that such a crazy thing to have happen? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.211.155.1 (talk) 04:28, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
- Again, while I do sympathize with the family and supporters, I am not taking sides, nor do I have any bias in this situation. I am not a feminist, nor am I a misogynist - I am fair and neutral towards all people, whether they be abusive fathers or abused fathers.
- This deletion was enforced solely in keeping with Wikipedia's long-established policies. Mr. Ball's death, while indeed tragic, was not reported throughout the reliable media enough to show his notability.
- I hope this makes sense to all those saddened by Mr. Ball's passing. Cheers, m.o.p 21:04, 24 June 2011 (UTC)
- I understand that you do not think that Mr. Ball's death is something that qualifies as an event and thus deleted said article. I disagree but I do see the merits of your argument. However, you claim to be unbiased in this debate and yet for someone who judges on the letter of the law you break the law and close debate 2.5 days before final judgment is to be rendered. If you have no corner then I ask why make this article a special case that it must be quelled , by your own admission, 2.5 days before any other articles found in similar circumstances are voted upon. I petition you to reinstate and allow the normal course of the discussion continue for the 2.5 days, allow the full opportunity for the pro side to make their case then recluse yourself from the final judgment. This is the only way to ensure transparency so that your claim of neutrality can be believed. CaffOMHW (talk) 03:28, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
- Ahead of things, let me tell you that I appreciate the civility.
- Wikipedia's policies aren't law - they're guidelines. As an administrator, it's my job to apply policy in a way that is completely devoid of bias and benefits the encyclopedia as a whole.
- On a side note, the deletion nomination was closed 1.5 days before the normal time. The page had a whole work week to be saved, rewritten or reworked; however, due to the lack of outside sourcing that carried reliability, there was nothing to keep that wasn't editorialized or unencyclopedic. I would also like to point out that almost every account that voiced their opinion in the 'keep' spectrum had either only edited that page or had edited very little aside from the page. Meanwhile, the deletion argument was put forward by experienced users.
- Though I understand that some people take offense to my early closure, I assure them that one extra day would not have yielded success, and that I took many factors into consideration before closing the discussion.
- Again, thank you for the civility, but I won't be overturning judgment or recreating a deletion discussion at this date. m.o.p 08:17, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
ITNthx for the 2 quick updates of my nom ;)
but also can you see the bolivia one. its got support and very nearly out of the news. we could tack it nearer the border.Lihaas (talk) 22:26, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
Ball closure.
Thank God you are an ambassador for WP, and against censorship, MoP. When Wikipedia fails, and it eventually will, it will largely be because most people don't like to be gamed and would rather not read well cultivated information that is maintained by dishonest brokers who hide behind rules that are never applied in an even-handed manner. The idea that a story is not relevant merely because it is not yet encyclopedic is ridiculous when one sees all the articles which linger on for months or years in the same state. The idea that a story is not relevant because the motivations/justifications of the user are suspect would be grounds for eliminating half the biographical articles in WP. It smacks of an agenda. The appearance of impropriety is as bad as actual impropriety.173.78.20.96 (talk) 04:51, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
- I appreciate the feedback.
- I do my best to maintain an equal, proportionate response in all dealings on Wikipedia; I don't defend things I like, or attack things I dislike, just for the reason of screwing with people. That strikes me as childish. Instead, the most I can do is try to help others understand Wikipedia policies, which are generally mind-bending and hard to grasp (for example, most people ask, "What's the reasoning a war hero isn't considered notable when Donkey Kong is?").
- Maybe one day the policies will change. I mean, most of these were written five, six year ago - the world's changing, and I expect they will with time. But, for now, the guidelines handle what comes in.
- Again, thanks for the input. I appreciate not being personally attacked - it makes it easier to reply. Cheers, m.o.p 05:08, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Natami (2nd nomination)
- The close was thoroughly thought-out, so there's not much ground for me to explore that I haven't already. If you're set on going to DRV, there's nothing I can say which will change your mind, and it's your right to ask for a review. However, current consensus sits at delete (unless the 'keep' side is hiding an ace-in-the-hole reliable source or something). Cheers, m.o.p 04:55, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- So, what about the reliable sources we already brought up in the AfD such as this interview in Amiga Future or this news article from nr2.ru? We've already established that Amiga Future isn't sponsored by a hardware company as one !voter there falsely claimed. On a related note, did you discount the !votes from individuals making misleading statements or those claiming there were "no independent reliable sources"? (I could tell you how that !voter happened to show up there, but he isn't going to like it.) I could also link to forum posts by another delete !voter who showed up there who was very much into a "delete at any cost" mode because he doesn't like "amiga clones". --Tothwolf (talk) 05:11, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- Those sources were there before the previous close, and I, like the previous administrator, do not think they're strong enough.
- I've already covered what kind of rationale was discounted and what wasn't.
- As for your last statement about other editors - I'm not quite sure what your point is, but I don't think it's relevant. As I said, I've discounted any rationale that does not apply policy.
- Cheers, m.o.p 05:33, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- Uh, no...nr2.ru was only brought up in the second AfD. Strong enough is also an argument to be made in a !vote, not a closing statement. --Tothwolf (talk) 05:56, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- My apologies, the Russian source was indeed added after the first AfD. Still too shaky for a stand-alone article, though. Cheers, m.o.p 13:42, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- To follow up on my earlier comment, while I don't really want to get into an "X did this because of Y" sort of thing with regards to this AfD, there were a number of delete !voters who showed up there for personal reasons/vendettas/bias and/or who made false statements about sources. Despite the template at the top of the AfD, the second AfD also didn't suffer from the forum canvassing that the first did. One of the delete !voters actually came by way of the forum and first AfD and was trolling because of his personal dislike of Amiga clones. --Tothwolf (talk) 15:33, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
If they have valid, policy-based rationale, their personal motivation doesn't matter, solely for the reason that an encyclopedia based on liking or disliking things would crumble instantly. I'm sure some of the deletion crew could just-as-easily blame keep voters for being enthusiasts and fans of Natami - but that's not important. As a result, making allegations of personal bias is unnecessary. The help is appreciated, but there's nothing I can do with the information. m.o.p 15:39, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- It matters when someone makes false statements and tries to hide what they are doing behind policy. As for keeps, quite a number appear to be from well established editors who don't appear to be all that interested in Amiga topics. As for myself, I wasn't even aware of NatAmi until the first AfD and didn't even !vote in the first AfD since I thought it was pretty obvious it was headed for a no-consensus close. --Tothwolf (talk) 15:58, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- Again, if their rationale is grounded in policy, their motivation does not matter, simply because it's impossible to discern someone's intent through text, and because the second someone accuses another of favoritism/malicious intent the entire argument turns into a bunch of people shouting, "You're lying." That's why there's nothing I can do with your information in this case. Cheers, m.o.p 16:02, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- Apologies to you, M.O.P., for addressing another editor on your talk page, but I just wanted to jump in this conversation. Tothwolf, with no prejudice against you at all I strongly suggest you take this in perspective. There have been two AFDs and an ANI report over this article. The way you treated me on my talk page threatening DRV because I was a new administrator was, as I feel it, borderline harassing. That you canvassed two other administrators to talk to me was also a below the belt move. In good faith, I relisted the debate and it has closed again as delete. I strongly suggest taking the advice at WP:DGAF into account here and let the issue go. I don't think there will be a problem recreating this article, even pulling the old content back from the deletion log, when the subject has better sources in a broader community. I hold no ill feeling toward you, this is purely honest advice.--v/r - TP 16:46, 27 June 2011 (UTC)]
- TParis, while you are correct in that this talk page is not the place for this, because you brought this up here and you seem to value honest feedback, I'll address this here.
In no way did I ever threaten you with DRV, let alone because you were a new administrator (discussion in question). I did however upon noticing that you had passed RFA only days earlier decide it best not to press you further in public and instead sent you this short email: "Sigh. I just noticed you just finished your RFA. The Natami AfD was a bad AfD to pick to close right out of the gate. It is likely to end up at DRV and given the magazine I mentioned, overturned. I really wish you would reconsider your close. You might have noticed I didn't even !vote in the AfD itself, however I did point out a number of things and took a couple of people to task for making false or misleading statements." That is the only email I sent you about the matter and not once did I ever threaten you with DRV. Please get your facts correct before making statements such as this because such mistakes can have a negative effect on others.
After you replied expressing your disagreement over the sources (and implied that I might be biased because I sometimes contribute to computing-related articles) I asked a number of other administrators (way more than two, actually) what they thought of the AfD's close because I wanted unbiased feedback to see if I was somehow totally off-track before I initiated a DRV. The feedback I got was fairly unanimous in that the close was problematic. Before I had a chance to draft a DRV however, you reverted your own close and relisted the AfD from scratch with a new listing. In no way did I ever "canvass" anyone to "talk to you" and if others did contact you directly, they did so at their own discretion and for their own reasons.
There indeed have been two AfDs, the first of which you closed (although one could also argue that the second was merely a relist of the first). The AN/I "discussion" you also mentioned wasn't really over this article or the first AfD, it was an attempt by someone to game AN/I when they were unable to bully me on their talk page. Please be more careful making these sort of blanket statements in the future because as I mentioned above such statements can cause problems for others. --Tothwolf (talk) 17:38, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- You're email was exactly like your reply here. You like to make threats without actually making them: "such statements can cause problems". There is very little way your email cannot be interpreted as anything other than a threat of DRV because I am a new administrator. This is all I'll say on M.O.P.'s talk page as I came here to offer honest advice and you don't seem interested in it. If you'd like to discuss further with me, you know where to find my talk page.--v/r - TP 17:51, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- TParis, in no way did I ever make an implied threat. While I may be a little blunt and abrasive at times (or maybe I'm just an assume good faith in that you simply misremembered the facts I outlined above when you made this statement here. It is easy to forget a few details here or there and not everyone maintains detailed notes for this sort of stuff (I do, for a number of reasons, although I didn't always).
As far as honest advice goes, this is a two-way street and I gave you my opinion as well. If you choose to ignore and discount it, so be it, but I'd suggest you be much more careful in the future and get your facts correct before you make the sort of statement you made above. Such statements can and do cause problems for other editors. Who knows, it may just be that you've not been around long enough yet to have witnessed people blocked or punished in some way because someone else didn't have their facts together. (If you do decide you want to continue this discussion, perhaps we should take this elsewhere.) --Tothwolf (talk) 18:14, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
]
Heaton Park Hebrew Congregation (2nd nomination)
Natami
Thought you might want to know
- (talk page stalker) That's just the same little ideological website which has been pushing for the "Martyrdom of St. Thomas Ball" attention since day one; no actual new coverage. --Orange Mike | Talk 14:34, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
- I guess I should also mention that the way I found it, was that someone tried submitting it to Fark.com last night. The admins did not greenlight it, so that particular submission/thread did not go to the main Fark page, appearing only to those with Totalfark accounts. The submission said something like "Wikipedia deletes burning man" (I'm not at a computer with TF access so I might not have that exactly right). It might, theoretically, based on the submission, be considered some sort of off-site canvassing (it was submitted with the asinine tag). For what its worth, the thread went uncommented, so I don't think that particular attempt garnered any support. I just wanted to drop a line in case that this was just the first drop of a large storm. If I see anything else, I'll drop a line here. Umbralcorax (talk) 15:58, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
Wiki ad
4chan raid
Thomas James Bell, new information
- (reliable sources. --Orange Mike | Talk 13:33, 30 June 2011 (UTC)]
Happy Birthday
![](//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3d/Nuvola_apps_cookie.svg/50px-Nuvola_apps_cookie.svg.png)
Just a happy Birthday message to you, Master of Puppets, from the Wikipedia Birthday Committee! Have a great day!
Monterey Bay (talk) 02:00, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
User:BillyMoses
Natami
AFD
- Your input is appreciated, though there's nothing I can do with it but take a note. If you'd like, you can weigh in at the next AfD(s), when/if they arise. Cheers, m.o.p 19:42, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
Dr Myko San – Health from Mushrooms
- I'd be happy to help! However, I'm currently away from a computer (typing this on my phone), so I'll have to check in on the 11th of July. Does that sound okay? m.o.p 15:40, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
- wp:NODEADLINE :-) LeadSongDog come howl! 15:48, 7 July 2011 (UTC)]
From a former Wikipedian
-71.234.90.0 (talk) 04:50, 8 July 2011 (UTC)
- Hey, thanks so much! I'm not sure who you are, but I really appreciate the sentiment. Hope all is well! m.o.p 20:49, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
Deletion review for Thomas James Ball
DRV comment
DRV
Could you please overturn the deletion of these files per File:Signature of Amitabh Bachchan.svg and File:Signature of Zakir Hussain.svg:
- File:Signature of Vishwanathan Anand.svg
- File:Signature of Vijay Mallya.svg
- File:Signature of Venkaiah Naidu.svg
- File:Signature of Sudeep Bandhopadhyay.svg
- File:Signature of Sonia Gandhi.svg
- File:Signature of Somnath Chatterjee.svg
- File:Signature of Ratan Tata.svg
- File:Signature of Kumar Mangalam Birla.svg
- File:Signature of Rajeev Shukla.svg
- File:Signature of Raj Babbar.svg
- File:Signature of Rahul Gandhi.svg
- File:Signature of Priyanka Vadra.svg
- File:Signature of P. T. Usha.svg
- File:Signature of Narendra Modi.svg
- File:Signature of Nandan Nilekani.svg
- File:Signature of Manish Tewari.svg
- File:Signature of Leander Paes.svg
- File:Signature of Lata Mangeshkar.svg
- File:Signature of Kumar Mangalam Birla.svg
- File:Signature of Karia Munda.svg
- File:Signature of Kapil Sibal.svg
- File:Signature of Kamal Nath.svg
- File:Signature of K. Kamraj.svg
- File:Signature of Jaya Bachchan.svg
- File:Signature of Gautam Gambhir.svg
- File:Signature of Brinda Karat.svg
- File:Signature of Bharatsinh Solanki.svg
- File:Signature of Bhairon Singh Shekhawat.svg
- File:Signature of B. K. Birla.svg
- File:Signature of Azim Premji.svg
- File:Signature of Arun Jaitely.svg
- File:Signature of Aishwarya Rai Bachchan.svg
- File:Signature of Abhishek Manu Singhvi.svg
- File:Signature of Abhishek Bachchan.svg
- File:Signature of Sting.svg
- File:Signature of Br. L. D. Lobo.svg
- File:Signature of VJ Rannvijay Singh Singha.svg
Diligent07Appears to be less than new. See User talk:Raoulduke25 where he states that this is a deliberate series of edits.
- Can you please help defend our collective effort of including the obscene middle-finger incident in the Cheney Mason article? It should be maintained in the article for public interest, etc. Please see the Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard#Cheney Mason discussion page and include your thoughts in favor of having the content remain in the interests of the public, etc
[8], [9] and even imputation that an editor has a connection with the person [10]. He has been on since April, and started off as being experienced on WP IMHO. Kindly keep an eye out please. Especially for any sign of a real "collective effort"? Such as [11]? Cheers. Collect (talk) 11:36, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
A cookie for you!
Keep up the good work defending the "Wiki" against genre warriors. Thanks for the help! talk) 17:31, 13 July 2011 (UTC)]
Hello. You have a new message at Lionelt's talk page.
Semi protection
OK, this thing with the militant atheism page is impossibleThese guys are incredible... I could dig up diffs to show you how they revert and wikilawyer even the SMALLEST attempt to move the article closer to NPOV. But that would take a long time for you to read. How about I show you this instead:
These guys are utterly without scruples. Who in their right mind would remove the NPOV dispute tag when heated arguments have been raging for weeks and NO moves whatsoever have been made to fix the article? Oh right, that would be someone in their right mind who is running a propaganda platform.
Anyway... I wanted to ask your advice on what to do. These guys are impossible to work with. Most of the other editors have given up and refuse to put this page on their watchlist. So what to do then? Request formal mediation? Articles for deletion? Something else?
Me and the other editors would like to see the page replaced with a disambiguation page... since literally ALL the content has already been covered (better) in Criticism of atheism, State atheism and New Atheism.
Obhave (talk) 13:21, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
- Hello User:Master of Puppets. I noticed this conversation and thought I might add that an NPOV policy. Obhave (talk) 13:11, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
- One more thing, m.o.p... my opponents are currently twisting your words to make it look as if you were scolding user:Mann_jess all along. Obhave (talk) 14:42, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
]
User:Jasper Deng page protection
- No worries! m.o.p 19:35, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
Is there a procedure for brutal uncollaborated editing with a destructive intent?I noticed that you recently had problems with proposed brutal editing by Peter S Strempel. Although he has been more sensible on your project in the end (possibly because of your administrator status?) he has not been so with regard to the astrology project pages to which he made a similar 'razor-promise'. Could you please see this Afd request which is one of three he made for major 'history of astrology' articles within the last hour, with a promise on another important page that any comment which is not refrences within 7 days will be removed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Babylonian_astrology
Is there anything that can be done about this officially to stop him wreaking havoc with content whilst he knows that the small group of editors providing content on these pages are already stretched to the limit trying to keep up with what needs to be done? I don't understand what drives some people to want to edit WP like this, but I think it is entriely the result of his ego-stress that when he proposed an edit for a passage, no one favoured it. Hope you can help or advise Zac Δ talk 01:15, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks! assume good faith; I believe that Peter is simply trying to help improve Wikipedia. While his methods may be lacking in some areas, he has displayed a pretty decent grasp on the policies he's trying to enforce.
- However, I agree that he shouldn't be making any changes if they're not discussed with the community first. Do you mind pulling up a few diffs of where he went against consensus? I'll approach him with your concern then. Thanks, m.o.p 03:57, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
- Actually there hasn't been any significant content dispute with Peter. He proposed a change to a section edit which wasn't a very good proposition and a few editors commented but without rancur, and I added a new section post immediately afterwards to point out the proiposed change would contradict with how the definition was given correctly at a later point in the article, outlining how I understood WP policy expected the main astrology article to pull its own content together, along with its summarised content from its daughter pages. Peter never responded to this but other editors started working in that direction immediately. Then, without further discussion or comment, Peter came back four days later to announce an intention to take his 'word razor' to all unreferenced assertions on the main astrology page, its sub-pages, and the portal page itself, to ensure his perceived disagreement was not circumvented in pages he viewed as content forks (I'm still not sure what he means by that). My response to that can be seen - a perfectly reasonable request for him to do what he felt was most productive, but consider that citation-tagging was the way to go. I also placed comments on his talk-page, which you can read if you are interested. That he erupted into a frenzy of AfD requests last night says something, I think, about his unwillingness to discuss and engage in other views. Most of his posts appear as new section declarations that don't appear to have considered the responses other editors give him.
- I've summarised this in the ANI request Dougweller started. The deletion requests were a step too far IMO, and I'm concerned that Peter would spring to such drastic measures in reaction to what he perceives to be me not allowing him to do what he wants to do. I'll be away for a few days so I'm tying up my WP activity now. That underlines my concern that he intends to take such drastic action with only one week's notice of intent. Thanks for looking into this. It would be good if something could be proposed to stop huge problems before they occur. 10:35, 22 July 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zachariel (talk • contribs
)
- One last request. I have just noticed that a related complaint, which is quite serious but has been sidetracked (deliberatly IMO) by Peter's suggestions that I have prevented him from doing what he wants, has been collapsed as "going nowehere" by an unsympathetic editor.
- "Its ben here several days and no admin has even sniffed at a block or ban - clearly you're not going to get admin action. So this should got to WP:DR or WP:RFCU if you want to take it further. I've boldly collapsed this, though I won't be surprised if someone uncollapses it"
- If you can find the time could you at least take a look at that related problem, and consider uncollapsing it, because the issues are serious and have gone beyond the point where Dispute resolution are appropriate. I will be away and have nothing more to add, but the problems identified still remain. Zac Δ talk 10:58, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
What to do?
- I've started a threat at ANI. Those AfDs are purely pointy and if no one objects I'll close them. talk) 06:11, 22 July 2011 (UTC)]
- Replied there. m.o.p 08:20, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
Talk Page on Militant Atheism - Introduction Section
- The update is appreciated, thanks very much. I've been dealing with life for the past two weeks, but I'll be back to close that discussion tonight or tomorrow. Thanks again, m.o.p 22:03, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
- Just bringing this up again, given the current state of this section. I believe the discussion will be archived automatically if not closed. I'm sorry if I sound pushy with you having a lot on your plate of late. If you would prefer, I could alert User:Fastily instead. Turnsalso (talk) 16:55, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
ITN
- I knew that tab I closed had unfinished business on it... thanks. 2008 University of Central Arkansas shootings is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.
The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2008 University of Central Arkansas shootings(2nd nomination) until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on good quality evidence, and our policies and guidelines.
Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article.
talk 14:00, 1 September 2011 (UTC)]
Hey
- Done! Both your userpage and the transcluded page are protected. Cheers, « ₣M₣ » 04:09, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Restored. m.o.p 05:21, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
]
User talk:Joshua the Independent
- My mistake - my block script auto-filled the edit summary. The block was issued due to the user's newfound will to disrupt Wikipedia intentionally. Their previous contributions are welcome, but this behaviour necessitates administrative action. m.o.p 21:52, 13 September 2011 (UTC)
Say hi to your imaginary girlfriend for me
- Well, I do love getting hate mail. Thanks for the laugh! Cheers, m.o.p 05:17, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
...further to the above lovely note, I weighed in on Calabe's talk page - there appears to be more confusion here than at first glance. bou·le·var·dier (talk) 05:19, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
Sorry to drop by again, but Silentsizzlingsausage (talk · contribs) would appear to be a duck. bou·le·var·dier (talk) 05:31, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
- No, it's not an issue! Thanks for the note, blocked. Cheers, WP:SPI. Thanks again, m.o.p 06:13, 14 September 2011 (UTC)]
I have to admit ...
- See the above section. The link is apparently a very subtle spam link that Calabe is removing, and socks are springing up to revert him. Swarm u / t 10:20, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
Moderation
- Alright, I'll make my way back. Thanks for letting me know! m.o.p 05:18, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
User:12.139.96.228
- To be honest, this case is perplexing. Half of this user's edits are constructive (mostly sourced), the other half aren't sourced - and the user won't reply to anybody. I'm also too busy to go through every edit and confirm whether or not it's good. I forgot about this for a while - I'll think about it tonight and figure something out for tomorrow. Thanks for reminding me! m.o.p 05:18, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
Whoops
- Whoops! Must not have been looking when I ran my block script. Thanks for letting me know, I've reblocked them for a far shorter (technically, an infinitely shorter) time. Cheers, m.o.p 22:58, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
Ashleyleggat404
- You're fully right in that the blanking policy covers indefinite blocks. I've removed the user's talk page rights as a result. Thanks again! m.o.p 00:28, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkback
Moderation
- If you look into this please consider whether Anupam's actions on the talk page and the entry itself are violations of WP:OWN. He's been driving off those he disagrees with by bludgening them to death with argument and heavily policing the entry claiming that there is a consensus written in stone despite many dissenting voices. Others have taken to simply calling him "the article's owner." I have had enough of this behavior personally and left him a message about it on his talk page. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:52, 20 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Dear User:Master of Puppets, the above user has misrepresented the occurrences at the article. I started another Introduction discussion at the article's talk page but User:Griswaldo has chosen to edit war over a second NPOV tag, despite the fact that one already exists in the article. He has done so despite the fact that the Introduction is being discussed in a peaceful manner at the talk page, in violation of your injunction: "We've only got consensus on this proposed versions (and loose consensus at that) - please do not attempt to subvert said consensus by making undiscussed changes." I have posted a message on his talk page about this behaviour. Nevertheless, I also do not wish to argue with the user personally and would prefer if you could go back to moderating the discussion between the two parties at the talk page. Thanks for taking the time to read this message. With regards, AnupamTalk 20:58, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- His "injunction?" Adding a neutrality tag to a specific sentence which an editor disputes the neutrality of is hardly "subverting the consensus by making undiscussed changes." Please stop wikilawyering to get your way. There is a growing consensus against your position regarding this article in general as well, despite your aggressive policing of the entry and the talk page. See ]
- I just thought that I would mention that User:Griswaldo, after seeing this message, just now decided to comment in the discussion rather than edit war against consensus further. Thanks for taking the time to read this message. With regards, AnupamTalk 21:51, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- "Edit war against consensus further?" My comment there has nothing to do with your message here. I've made three total edits to this entry ever. One was a copy edit in June, another was reverting an IP vandal, and the third was the revert of your Ownership edit. Please do not insinuate that I'm a edit warrior on this page. It is disingenuous.Griswaldo (talk) 22:08, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Thank you all for approaching me with your concerns.
- Obviously, I do not support Anupam - this is because I'm remaining a neutral third party, and, therefore, can't take sides. However, Griswaldo: please keep in mind that I did ask for all discussion to take place on the talk page. Why not just add your complaints to the talk page? It would have been much easier to discuss.
- I do agree that adding a NPOV tag, while slightly redundant, isn't horrible, but your intent seems to have been to stir discussion on that particular section, discussion that would be much more appropriate on the talk page.
- As for your and Snalwibma's concerns of Anupam trying to 'own' the article, I'm curious as to what you two mean; what 'delusions'?
- Also, Griswaldo, I don't think Anupam meant to insinuate you are an edit warrior (though this is just my take) - rather, they wanted to add the note that you've weighed in on discussion. m.o.p 22:10, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- your intent seems to have been to stir discussion on that particular section - No that's incorrect. I didn't add this tag, I simply reverted Anupam's attempt to own the page when he removed it. I agreed with JimWae's addition of the tag and found Anupam's removal to be unwarranted and a display of ownership.Griswaldo (talk) 22:16, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Note that, for all intents and purposes, reverting somebody is adding whatever is included in your edit, regardless of who put it there first. You revert a removal, you're agreeing with the edition you're reverting to - simple.
- And, if you agreed with JimWae, then we go back to what I was saying earlier - say so on the talk page. Two of you agree? Great! That's closer to consensus. But it means nothing if you express your support by reverting removals.
- Again, as I've asked multiple times, please stop saying that Anupam is owning anything without giving me evidence of it first. m.o.p 22:22, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Dear User:Master of Puppets, thank you for your reply to all of us. The reason User:Snalwibma stated that I was attempting to "own" the article was because I reverted an undiscussed removal from the article, which not only myself, but two other users objected to. In fact, two anonymous IP Addresses also reverted User:Snalwibma. I was open to compromise on the issue and stated that I would accept User:Turnsalso's compromise on the issue. I kindly request you to look at that discussion yourself and get an honest reading of it. Also, the only reason I removed the second NPOV tag was because there was already one present, which I did not remove. I only reverted the addition of a second NPOV tag once and even explained myself on the talk page. When I went to the talk page, I found rude accusations and an anti-collaborative spirit, despite the fact that I have been nothing but polite. I hope this helps. With regards, AnupamTalk 22:25, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry - I know I should not rise to the bait, but I have to object to the comment "The reason User:Snalwibma stated that I was attempting to 'own' the article was because I reverted an undiscussed removal ..." How dare Anupam presume to know what is in my mind! The reason I describe Anupam's attitude to the article as one of ownership is because that is how s/he behaves - "policing" every edit, pronouncing on whether s/he "accepts" or "rejects" it, peremptorily reverting anything s/he does not like, without discussion, presuming to know others' motives, and judging them as fit/unfit to contribute to the article. This has been going on for weeks, if not months. It is impossible to discuss the content of the article, let alone improve the text, because everything is filtered through the approval/disapproval of the article's self-appointed guardian, Anupam. tendentious or disruptive when they bring up certain issues, even when they are clearly in the majority. That is not collaborative. I stopped editing the article heavily because of those issues. I don't have any delusions that my opinion is worth more than anyone else's here, but I would think that the large number of established, experienced editors who are all saying there's a problem, would indicate something. — Jess· Δ♥ 19:45, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
Please reconsider your full protection of Militant atheist
- In case you didn't notice, I asked that people think twice about pointing fingers at each other. If you'd like to start a sockpuppetry investigation, let me know, and we can take that avenue - however, don't accuse other editors of ownership without substance. If you think Anupam is trying to own things, give me something. Diffs, edits, anything. I'll check it out for you, but right now, baseless accusations are not what I'm looking for.
- Also, notice that I protected the article with your edit being the last one. How is that validating the very person you've been reverting?
- The protection will stay until consensus is reached. m.o.p 22:19, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Because protection is what he wants quite clearly. He's stalling conversation and shouting down people on the talk page, where, if you have a look, you'll see he's clearly in the minority. Because of your "injunction" as he calls it, he also claims that no matter how many people agree with a certain change it is illegitimate. I'll be happy to gather some diffs, but my first message to you above was to please look into the situation carefully before acting on it. Did you do that and come to the conclusion that I'm wrong or did you not head that request? Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:29, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Yes, I did heed your request. I don't see any ownership behaviour from Anupam, though, being involved in multiple disputes, I didn't have the time to read every last word on the page, so you're free to provide evidence. However, from what I can see, Anupam's last proposal was supported by the majority - not to count (and I don't mean to imply that I decide where consensus lies by looking at pure numbers), but from looking at pure supports versus opposes, eight people (nine including Anupam) support while four oppose. How does that make Anupam's views a minority? m.o.p 22:37, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- It depends on what view you are talking about. The current RFC on the introduction is something that most people don't even want to engage because most people think this very entry should be split up and integrated into other entries. I reluctantly engaged the RfC just now myself. The last time the more serious question about the entry was asked, several of the new commentators were not around, and there was "no consensus" found because the opposing side was chalk full of SPAs and editors with a view that is outright hostile to atheism (which is a legitimate view to hold, but it is a minority view). Let me find you some diffs.Griswaldo (talk) 22:43, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- User:Griswaldo, that is exactly the issue: you do not want to collaborate with other users on the talk page, which is why you were reluctant to participate in the current RfC. Moreover, there were several SPA's on the side of the opposition as well, including WP:NPOV. In addition, the split was again recently discussed and the specific case to do so was refuted by several editors. As such, there was no consensus for it. I hope this helps. With regards, AnupamTalk 22:52, 20 September 2011 (UTC)]
- No. You are trying to write an article that violates WP:SYNTH because it conflates New Atheism with oppressive communist regimes and their histories of violence. That's hardly NPOV. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:59, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
Hi m.o.p., as someone who occasionally looks at that page (and then washes my hands), I just want to compliment you as having done the right thing in full protecting. By way of unsolicited advice to the involved editors, the best thing they could do is to allow The Wrong Version to sit there a good long time, and devote their energy to other things. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:54, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
]
Yes, please reconsider your full protection of
WP:RS—deserve protection against misinformed reverts. Thanks Geremia (talk) 16:12, 22 September 2011 (UTC)]
Diffs of
- I'm not really sure where the ownership is here; nowhere in our policies is it stated that a user can't promote their RFC on the subject talk page. If it's ongoing and they'd like to move it to the forefront, what's wrong with that? More so, some of your summaries seem inaccurate - in that last diff, you state that Anupam is removing images, yet I only see Anupam adding an image (the peace dove that's at the top of the page). Also, you use repeating examples. m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Well clearly the last diff was wrong. Thanks for the vote of confidence. There are no repeat examples nor inaccurate summaries, just a mistaken copy paste of the second to last diff to the last position as well. I have fixed it. Cheers.
- Using "consensus claims from one RfC to reject changes made to article content
- Same as above. Using the "consensus" bludgeon to get his way. Please note that clearly we ought to edit by consensus, but this consensus is highly disputed, and IMO not there in the first place. The real problem is the way in which Anupam decides to use it like a trump card to remove changes he doesn't like. Ask yourself if all changes post "consensus" have been removed or just the ones Anupam decided he wanted removed.
Master of Puppets do you need more diffs or is this enough?Griswaldo (talk) 23:31, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Well I need more diffs because your "evidence" so far looks like a desperate attempt to incriminate an editor who has been very successful in persuading his colleagues to adopt his proposals. Anupam has presented his proposals, argued the merits and persuaded many editors. Anything you want to tell us about why you're having difficulty doing likewise? – Lionel (talk) 06:02, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- I don't see this is as conclusive evidence, either. And, it should be said - if people are editing against established consensus, then people are free to re-evaluate consensus, but edit-warring against it doesn't make much sense. m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- If not ownership then what is this - [28], [29], [30]? He removes two RfCs started by another editor, and revolving around the question that many of us actually find to be the fundamental question to answer regarding the entry. Then he edit wars to keep these RfCs off the page, claiming again to have some sort of authority stemming from your prior actions. If you aren't willing to do something here I'm going to another administrator and I'm going to ask for your initial "consensus," your strong arm administrating, and your lack of action here to be reviewed as well. Thanks.Griswaldo (talk) 17:08, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Anupam has already apologized for reverting those RfC additions, and we've moved past it. He also didn't claim to have administrative authority, but was waiting for my approval. We've cleared this up, it's not an issue. So no, I'm not going to take any action (as I've said here and on ANI). Now, if you'd like to threaten me and tell me that, since I'm not cooperating with your wills, you'll go to another administrator, that's fine - as I've said, you can seek outside opinions - but remember to keep a cool head, because borderline threats are not appreciated. m.o.p 21:49, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- It was not a threat, "borderline" or otherwise. You are conveniently ignoring a growing number of voices who are all saying the same thing - there is an ownership problem here. The deletion issue has not been "cleared up" as far as I'm concerned. Whenever it is mentioned Anupam insists that he did not "unilaterally" delete the RfCs from the page, which is a blatant distortion, since that is exactly what he did. He continues to act as a policeman at the page, and yes he does continue to cite your authority. Did you bother to read the many diffs I posted above in the second two sections? I will quote three random examples from those I provided for you if you want.
- When he first deleted the two RfCs he wrote: "rv - see discussion with reviewing administrator; approval needed to start another RfC while one is already occurring."
- When he deleted a fact tag that JimWae put into the lede: "rv excessive tagging per talk; tag is already extant in header; do not subvert previous consensus but gain consensus for potential additions per administrative notice"
- When he rejected another recent change to the entry: "accepted edits by User:Jkhwiki; rv removal of longstanding referenced content - see discussion on talk page and gain consensus for action per administrative injunction"
- In talk page comments and in edit summaries he consistently does the same thing. He refers to your authority, either directly or indirectly through your "notice" or your "injunction" as he likes to call it. I never said the claimed to have administrative authority, I said that he's using your authority, by way of your comments, such as the closure of the AfD to bully people. Do you deny that he citing your comments, because if you do then I must have fabricated those quotes. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:32, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
If you say "If you don't do A, then I'm going to go and do B", that's a threat. Anyway, that's not the issue - we've already covered all the issues with the RfC reverting, and Anupam won't do it again. Why keep raising hell over it?
We've already covered everything you bring up. And no, I'm not denying anything. I'm just saying this, and it's very simple: I don't think there has been any blatant ownership here. That's my judgment. If you disagree, again, feel free to raise this with another administrator or on ANI. m.o.p 23:12, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Regarding the new RFC, I still think there has not passed yet too much time since the last discussion about splitting the article. As far as I knew, repeating these sorts of debates (like splitting, deleting, renaming) before a larger amount of time has passed (like 6 months) is usually discouraged. And as others have also argued earlier, even if having multiple RFCs is possible, it's not very useful, and the new RFC seems to discourage further discussion about improving the lead introduction. So preventing multiple RFCs (and also a RFC about an issue debated not too long ago) does not look to me like evidence of bad faith intentions. Cody7777777 (talk) 21:37, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Cody, would you mind linking me to the previous RfC on splitting? m.o.p 21:49, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- The previous attempt to split the article can be found here. Cody7777777 (talk) 21:55, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Response
Yes, it does. Thanks, m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Dear User:Master of Puppets, I just noticed that User:Binksternet started another RfC while a current one is occurring. Is this appropriate? I reverted the addition motioning for one until your response is confirmed. If it is acceptable, then I apologize and will revert my edit. I look forward to your response. With regards, AnupamTalk 15:14, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'll form my reply on ANI. m.o.p 17:12, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- When you do please take into account my comment just above, regarding Anupam's edit warring to remove talk page comments (namely these RfCs) posted by others on the talk page. If you still don't think this is WP:OWN then clearly other administrators are needed here.Griswaldo (talk) 17:15, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Dear User:Griswaldo, how is going to a neutral mediator to address the issue owning the article? I acknowledge that the article is in dispute and as a result, I am asking an administrator for advice in this matter, NOT handling things on my own, as you have done by edit warring. Your WP:OWN allegations have not only been dismissed by this administrator, but by several other users, including, User:Lionelt, User:Cody7777777 and User:NYyankees51. Thanks, AnupamTalk 17:27, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- In reply to Griswaldo: reverting the RfCs was a mistake, but we've cleared that up now. As Anupam has stated at ANI, the intent was not to discourage discussion. If you think my judgment is compromised, you're welcome to seek another administrator's input. m.o.p 21:04, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- And as further evidence of WP:OWN, see this. Anupam adds a comment to everything that anyone else says, as if he/she is the owner of the article and everyone else is a subordinate contributor. This particular instance is pretty benign (although it clutters up the talk page with an unnecessary comment that merely says "I agree"), but I do think that Anupam at least needs to learn how to avoid giving the appearance of thinking he/she owns the article, and to desist from chipping in and saying the same thing over and over again, which almost makes meaningful discussion impossible! SNALWIBMA ( talk - contribs ) 17:31, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- While the input is appreciated, as I've said before, making allegations of ownership without hard evidence isn't going to get us anywhere. Anupam is not stopping others from discussing changes or forming consensus, and that's all that matters - refactoring the talk page or commenting on an issue is not against policy, and I'm not going to tell someone to stop editing because it "looks" like they're doing something wrong. As said above, you're welcome to request another administrator's insight if you wish. m.o.p 21:04, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
COIHi
you've helped me out before, with a conflict of interest problem, so having much more experience than me on wikipedia, I thought I would be bold enough to ask again for help.
Similar problem to last, User_talk:Hobbycraft is editing the HOBBYCRAFT article and making changes that aren't citably right. I think the user name suggest and history suggests a conflict of interest case.
Can you please, speak to them addressing this issue.
Thank you very much for your help.
Markcoulter50 (talk) 22:27, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
- I've blocked that user for username violations. Thanks a lot for letting me know! Keep up the great work, m.o.p 23:00, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkbackcausa sui (talk) 18:47, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Hello. You have a new message at causa sui's talk page. causa sui (talk) 20:54, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Problematic editing on militant atheism
- I hope it's not considered defamatory to repeat the final line: "I merely present the diffs above, and let others draw their own conclusions. Is this a duck? Does it quack? You decide.". Unfortunately, the concerned community no longer has that opportunity. What did you decide on their behalf? Does this duck quack, or not? bobrayner (talk) 15:42, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- It's not your wording, it's the very idea of it. Going to what's allegorically a public place and shouting, "Hey, everybody, this man is a criminal!" is one step below blatantly forming a lynch mob. As I've said, I have no problem with your wording or evidence, just your location of choice. Wikipedia is not, unfortunately, a democracy - letting others draw their conclusions and voice their opinions is not how a sockpuppet investigation works.
- So yes, please don't go restoring any of that section. We're not discussing editors, we're discussing the content they produce. Anything else has a sub-board to deal with it (like WP:SPI).
- Hopefully that clears things up! I'll be happy to answer any more questions should you have them. Cheers, m.o.p 15:48, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Hello User:Bobrayner, I noticed the section you created on the militant atheism talk page. If you do feel the way you do about User:Turnsalso and the anonymous IP Addresses, you can take this up with WP:SPI. Thanks, AnupamTalk 15:52, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
Are you kidding my MoP? Above your write: Going to what's allegorically a public place and shouting, "Hey, everybody, this man is a criminal!" is one step below blatantly forming a lynch mob. AND We're not discussing editors, we're discussing the content they produce. Yet you call this edit by Lionelt "good faith," at WQA? MoP, I would not ask you to agree with me or to like me, but can I please ask you not to insult me with these double standards.Griswaldo (talk) 16:18, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
]
- Griswaldo, I mean no offense when I say this, but I'd appreciate it if you stayed out of discussions which didn't involve you. Also, please don't put words in my mouth. Thanks, m.o.p 16:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I have not put words in your mouth. You said that you would assume good faith about Lionel. If you "assume good faith" it means you assume his edits were in "good faith." If you did not intend that meaning I suggest you reconsider what you wrote. Also, if you want me to "stay out of discussion which don't involve me" then I suggest your first order of business should be to do the same thing yourself. You decided to post at WQA, when there was no mention of you or anything you've done in that thread. Once again, I expect people not to practice double standards. So as long as you cannot show me that you will treat me as you ask to be treated yourself, I will not oblige you. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:21, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Please stop bickering. I'm not quite sure what you're trying to accomplish here. I've already explained what I meant when I said assuming good faith, but I'll explain again: I assumed that Lionelt was not hounding or deliberately haranguing you. I did not say, at any point, that his edit content was good faith, and I've told him not to edit like that again. So please stop accusing me of saying things I haven't said.
- Also, I posted in WQA because, as a mediator in this case and as an administrator, it's my duty to weigh in on administrative noticeboards, especially when the case is an ongoing discussion I've been participating in for three months. It is not your duty to weigh in on discussions on my talk page that don't concern you. I hope the distinction is clear here. m.o.p 20:33, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I think you are confused about something. Content is never good faith. "Editing in good faith" and "good faith edits" refers to the intent of the editor always. It has nothing to do with content. My assumption that you also felt the edits were appropriate comes from the fact that you did not say they weren't appropriate and clearly feel that his intentions were good. If you'd like to set the record straight on that issue you still can. I've asked you twice now to discuss the actual edits that are the focal point of the thread. Also, I moved the thread to ANI, per the suggestion of the editor who marked it "resolved."Griswaldo (talk) 20:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- See Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#User:Lionelt_--_following_my_past_edits_to_drum_up_support_against_me. FYI, I copy pasted the entire discussion because both you and Collect were critical of my initial post and I thought it was the right thing to do to preserve that criticism in the record of the conversation. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:43, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- In reply to your first paragraph: I'm going to give up now, as it seems you're misunderstanding most of what I type, but you're the one who stated that the content was not good faith (as you said, not appropriate), and I agreed - I referred to his intent in replying to you, and said that I assumed good faith in his motives, not his replies. I can't really say that in a clearer way, so my apologies if it's hard to understand. Also, as I've already said, I've left a message for Lionelt about his edits, so clearly I do not feel they're appropriate. m.o.p 20:57, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I, too, find these double standards vexing.
- Which diff is defamatory?
- I had hitherto thought that people on the article talkpage might like to be aware of potential problems with votestacking on the article talkpage (and 3rr evasion, of course). Would it be permitted to add a link to that list of diffs when it's in a different place, or would you consider that defamatory too? bobrayner (talk) 16:23, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- As I said, the information is not defamatory, but the way it's presented is - we have specific processes available to pursue should one feel there are sockpuppets about. However, calling someone out with the intent of informing the community is overstepping your authority and damaging to the accused's character. Also, there's no way a community discussion about whether or not one editor is a sockpuppet can end in anything other than a sockpuppet investigation anyway.
- So, in closing, please don't bring issues like this to the talk page. If you're concerned about votestacking, take it to the appropriate venue - if your concerns are validated, we'll take measures against said puppets. Cheers, m.o.p 16:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I am very disappointed that it's no longer permissible to raise problems with article-editing on the article talkpage. Previous concerns about sockpuppetry were simply ignored; the difference this time is that it's backed by lots of diffs.
- I'm fairly confident that the people concerned have sufficient technical nous to make checkuser draw a blank. And, let's be entirely honest, within minutes of me creating an SPI, an admin of the right persuasion will be getting an email suggesting that an SPI needs their attention. And SPI does not see offsite coordination by a facebook group &c. Finally, any null result at SPI will be used at the article in much the same way as previous administrative decisions have been. So, I do not believe that an SPI will improve either the article, or the encyclopædia as a whole. bobrayner (talk) 17:08, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- If you don't think the pre-existing methods set in place for situations like this are sufficient, you can always raise that concern at the village pump or suggest a policy revision - however, SPI is the venue for these requests, and the only venue. The talk page can not substitute. m.o.p 17:10, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
76.228.226.122Thank you for blocking the anonymous user, who is being counterproductive and rude. (although I think the block should have been one week, but I guess ok at least)
Can you also please try to hide the edit summaries of these edits if possible?
This and
this
Thanks and regards, talk 05:04, 26 September 2011 (UTC)]
- I'll extend the block if this behaviour continues after the block period is over.
- As for the edit summaries, those don't warrant hiding - I apologize for their content, but they don't meet the criteria of what I should remove. It's best just to ignore them for now. Cheers, m.o.p 05:13, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
- Okay, good to know, if I did nothing wrong, no permanent block will be enforced. The IP does not volunteer on WP as an admin and so the disproportionately out of line comments and threats of his should be ignored. --talk 05:19, 26 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Sounds good. We only hide extremely offensive revisions; milder ones stay in the edit history. Thanks again for bringing this to our attention! Cheers, m.o.p 05:31, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
Email
Jasper Deng (talk) 05:29, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
- Reading. talk) 06:00, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Bad Girls Club
- I've blocked Junebea for 2 days for disregarding warnings. m.o.p 20:30, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks for helping :) Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 21:06, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkback
- And again.Griswaldo (talk) 04:24, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
- And again ... but maybe the last. You can settle this question once and for all. See the talk page.Griswaldo (talk) 06:09, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'm sure I'm not alone in wanting to hear your replies to the last responses posed to you at that page. IMO, I don't know why you went down the road you did, but as far as I can tell you're blatantly misrepesenting facts about your own actions when people are brining concerns to you. You might think that since you closed the RfC the matter is settled, but it is not. You're actions have not made my life any more pleasant in the last few days vis-a-vis trying to deal with Anupam's disruption and I think you owe us all answers. So please revisit this thread and deal with the open questions. Thanks.Griswaldo (talk) 02:19, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
- I invite you to stop asking the same question again and again. This would be appreciated. Thanks, m.o.p 02:33, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Block question
- No, I just block obviously bad-faith accounts on sight. Advertising/spam accounts fall under that category. m.o.p 00:37, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Thanks
- Thank you. I've unlocked the article for whatever may come. If I'm needed again, feel free to let me know. Thanks for the kind words again, m.o.p 05:12, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
reminder
- We're still waiting to see if the user understands COI policy (per Ed's question). I'll prod the user and see if they'll answer. talk) 19:20, 30 September 2011 (UTC)]
Nextel logo deleted
- Mmm, good point. What's the link to the logo in question? m.o.p 01:33, 2 October 2011 (UTC)
Support of Sage City SymphonyYou deleted this page before I had a chance to go back in and add the stuff that you wanted to see, including the links within Wikipedia to important composers such as Lou Callabro (who started this orchestra and cites it in his Wikipedia page) and Susan Hurley whose work we premiered (SC is also mentioned in her Wikipedia entry). (Let alone links about the works we have performed.) And we have a web site at www.sagecitysymphony.org, have existed for over 35 yrs and are a significant cultural resource in the Bennington area such that we receive grants from local, statewide and national foundations.
I broke my wrist last weekend and am doing one-handed pecking so it'll take me a few days to get that loaded in. We are going out for a bit now, but I would appreciate your undeleting the page so that I don't have to re-invent the starting part when I go back in tomorrow to add links. Or delete it entirely so that I can start fresh - at this point either would work as long as I can start some serious work on it tomorrow. I am the webmaster by the way, so I do have access to content and more links.
Thank you, Celia Murray — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.228.127.119 (talk) 14:22, 1 October 2011 (UTC)
- It looks like fixed everything up. Best of luck, m.o.p 01:35, 2 October 2011 (UTC)]
Reply on Deterence's talk page
MA
After the beating you took you deserve a cold one--on me! Thanks for being fair and balanced – Lionel (talk) 03:55, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
- Hey, thanks! Glad to help out. :) m.o.p 03:56, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
Deletion of Mau5trap Recordings
--neocharles (talk) 07:33, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Existence does not equal notability - the subject has to be notable to get a Wikipedia page. m.o.p 12:05, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
Questoin re: AIV
- Addendum, actually, I read it very clearly in WP:VANDNOT: "Uploading or using material on Wikipedia in violation of Wikipedia's copyright policies is prohibited, but is not vandalism unless the user does so maliciously or fails to heed warnings." So if a person fails to heed warnings it is vandalism. My mistake here was that I only warned once. --Muhandes (talk) 12:29, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Eh, technically it is vandalism, but the user seems to be trying to improve the Wikipedia - that desire to help is misplaced in this case, as they seem to think that using copyrighted content is actually better. Weird. For most cases, yes, you should report copyvio to AIV - as long as they've been warned sufficiently. m.o.p 12:42, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- OK, he now did it again and the time stamp is after your last warning. Is it vandalism now? --Muhandes (talk) 12:32, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Yeah, if they're outright ignoring warnings. I've blocked for three days. m.o.p 12:40, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
Classmusic
- Oh, I know. But if somebody's lied to my face about using another account - and to other editors working on the article - I'm not about to let them go without a repercussion or two. I'd like Almost-instinct and Voceditnore to look over the article and fix up anything shifty. Also, I'd like Classmusic to respond to my warning, instead of blanking it and ignoring like they have to the above-named editors.
- So, in short, I know that COI doesn't bar editing, but it's enough of a concern that, given the user's recent behaviour, I'll stop them from doing anything until we've figured things out. This isn't too rouge-y, is it? I didn't hear that. Perhaps he is unaware of the sockpuppet investigation findings. Anyhow it seems that DeltaQuad has also blocked the Classmusic account. I left a note on his page about using the unblock template, but re-iterated that he needs to read the COI and Autobiography guidelines and stick to them scrupulously, if he gets unblocked. In the Opera and Classical Music WikiProjects, we get a lot of articles for performers, ensembles, etc. created by their agents and PR people, and often themselves. In my experience, the best I can hope for after one of these tussles is that they'll edit their article according to the guidelines in future. I have yet to find a single one who has ever contributed anything else to Wikipedia. Their only interest in the project is as a PR tool. Having said that, at least it results (after much red-pencilling from other editors) in one new article on a notable subject that we didn't have before and in a small way redresses the pop culture systemic bias here. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 13:40, 5 October 2011 (UTC)]
Danish election
- Never mind, it's been pulled by another admin. All the best, Jenks24 (talk) 11:03, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry about that! I was busy all day and didn't get your message until now. Thanks for letting me know, though! Cheers, m.o.p 19:51, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
3RRHey there! :)
Well WP:CRYSTAL has wined down, however, there's currently a
The Bad Girls Club (season 7). I have notified the two users [32], [33]. The evidence can be found here. They are having an edit-conflict on how the "Duration of cast" should be presented. Since there's no rules regarding anything like that, and it was made up about a year ago, I couldn't warned them to stop their e/c with anything except the 3RR rule. Maybe they need an admin to tell them to stop, so that's why I came to you :) Thanks, Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 01:17, 6 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Temporary page protection requested. Calabe1992 (talk) 01:29, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
nice guyhiii master of puppets,
ok do u know the movie Twilght saga ?
rply me back i want 2 talk 2 u a lot because i like ur pesonalty.BY
talk) 11:58, 28 April 2011 (UTC)]
File source problem with File:MoPuppetarmy.pngThank you for uploading File:MoPuppetarmy.png. I noticed that the file's description page currently doesn't specify who created the content, so the copyright status is unclear. If you did not create this file yourself, you will need to specify the owner of the copyright. If you obtained it from a website, please add a link to the website from which it was taken, together with a brief restatement of that website's terms of use of its content. However, if the copyright holder is a party unaffiliated from the website's publisher, that copyright should also be acknowledged.
If you have uploaded other files, consider verifying that you have specified sources for those files as well. You can find a list of files you have created in your upload log. Unsourced and untagged images may be deleted one week after they have been tagged per Wikipedia's criteria for speedy deletion, F4. If the image is copyrighted and non-free, the image will be deleted 48 hours after 11:44, 11 May 2011 (UTC) per speedy deletion criterion F7. If the file is already gone, you can still make a request for undeletion and ask for a chance to fix the problem. You may wish to read the Wikipedia's image use policy. If you have any questions or are in need of assistance please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. Magog the Ogre (talk) 11:44, 11 May 2011 (UTC)
The Deputy
- Thanks for your reply. My concern was not that Jayjg indicated he would rewrite and did not do so, but that he had agreed to allow more of the disputed section in the article rather than a dismissive sentence or two, but when editors began to delete the entire section based on frivolous reasons, he supported it. It appears now that we have, or are in the process of reaching a resolution. The section is now in the article, reduced substantially to account of Jayjg's concers about undue weight. Mamalujo (talk) 18:40, 27 May 2011 (UTC)
Carla Rushing page deletion
Any further discussion of Sarah Palin will result in a warning, and then a temporary block. Thank you!Hmmm, that might be just a tad excessive. We don't want to suppress all discussion, because that's when the pressure has nowhere to go, and people will go and meatball:ExpandScope.
Since scope is already expanded to international media, forcing scope to expand further might be a bit of a Bad Idea (tm). I recommend Not Going There.
If we're really intent on keeping discussions off of WP, we can always create a wikinews article, and link to the "discuss this article" page.
However, at the moment, people seem to be keeping it down to a dull roar anyway.
--Kim Bruning (talk) 22:44, 6 June 2011 (UTC)
- I think you caught my side point, but I'd like to stress the part I'm trying to tell you to watch out for!
- Long term empirical experience shows that attempts to curtail discussion on wikipedia will not slow down the internet discussion elsewhere (or even on wikipedia). Instead, that's exactly what will feed it more and more steam. So Don't Do That.
- Experience shows that the following approaches work:
- Try to centralize all (spurious) discussion in one place
- keep it as focused on encyclopedic work as possible.
- Treat the new users like new users. They don't know our rules yet. Teach them!
- The foundation would like to see us be more welcoming towards new users. That's a good idea! Let's do that.
- --Kim Bruning (talk) 00:26, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
- And... it went to AN/I (see below) --Kim Bruning (talk) 01:33, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
Edit Notice on Paul RevereYou seem to be asserting some admin right to quench discussion on the talk page by blocking and/or warning with the editnotice that I don't think we have, by policy. IAR doesn't cover stomping on people, no matter how annoying a particular conversation is.
Kelly started a
WP:ANI discussion on this.
Followups probably best on ANI as I am sure others will want to comment. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 01:15, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
- On review - I'm going to blank the edit notice now. If an ANI consensus develops to support restoring it then I'll not object at all, but I think it's novel and enough of a stretch that the default should be "no" unless consensus develops otherwise. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 01:19, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
How does a user find a mentor?
Helen Lucy Burke
Talkback
I did what you asked but the IP reverted it again. PTJoshua (talk) 21:09, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
- You're removing everything I say. Please don't do this. It isn't helpful. --86.45.75.42 (talk) 21:19, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
- I'll talk to them. Sit tight for a second. m.o.p 21:10, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
RE: Deletion of 48gogreen page :ApalejaHello,
Thank you for quick response. I appreciate your reason. but if you do some research you'll find more then 4 or 5 substantial mentions in local or international media - in a newspaper, on a notable website, etc. - to put forward this article.
There is a link on official website of company. http://www.48gogreen.com/static/web
Looking forward for your response. thank you in advance to undelete article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Apaleja (talk • contribs) 08:03, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
Here are some articles from International Press (you can use Google translator-if you use chrome it'll provide option immediately):
http://www.regione.emilia-romagna.it/wcm/cinema/sezioni_primopiano/PrimoPiano/Gadoev.htm
http://domani.arcoiris.tv/girano-un-corto-in-48-ore-e-arrivano-dritti-a-cannes/
http://www.close-up.it/spip.php?article6724
http://www.flashvideo.it/news/9/2578/
http://www.radioemiliaromagna.it/cultura/cinema/videomaker_bolognesi_cannes_corto_ecologico.aspx
Also if YOU HAD READ careful our site you should have see the Press link (those are press links not blogs) with all these web press: http://www.48gogreen.com/static/web
Thank you — Preceding unsigned comment added by Apaleja (talk • contribs) 08:22, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
Final warning On Edit Warring of Efik language disputeIf My Reporting a false article is the reason you want to block me. Then Go ahead and BLOCK me.- I can be Block because I don't care to be part of a web/Encyclopedia of Lies! Although I have contributed anonymously to wikipedia since 2008, I only just signed on a few weeks ago to report an error that I thought was made. But you and your other BIASED administrators have refused to fix this error, instead you're all threatening to block me.
- : According to Wikipedia A false statement/article is removed immediatley it is realized. Yet as am reporting it you all are threatening me for causing disruption.
- You all are saying that I called I called Kwami Slow, Dumb etc. Yet Kwami used the words Ignorance first.
"As for Ukwa, your ignorance is not evidence of anything".
- What is the meaning of IGNORANCE? S/He also said;
"But we cannot have the same article under two names, nor an article on Ibibio-Efik that does not include Ibibio, nor an article on Efik that does not include Efik. A little common sense would be helpful."
- What is meaning of Common sense? Or because Kwami put it very nicely, and mine wasn't? Also I wasn't blanking the Efik page, since I just signed on it takes me a long while to write up an article. According to the statements above, Kwami said I could develop articles on Efik and Ibibio, that is what I was doing when you or your other BIASED administrators returned the articles back to the re-direct.
- : Since wikipedia says a false statement is fixed immediately it is reported, I explained out the mistakes, but Kwami kept insisting that me a native who speaks these languages was wrong and asked for sources. I provided the sources and Kwami Called A brilliant Historian who is a Million times more knowledgable than Kwami on the language;
"utterly ignorant AND not some random idiot who posted a web page".
- Yet you and your other Biased colleges are claiming that am the one attacking Kwami and causing a disruption.
- : Am done with Wikipedia, am going to be taking this issues to the Founder/head by email, once the Ibibio union are involved it might become a legal matter if Wikipedia still continues to portray this misleading information.
I will take this matter to the heads by Email first because they might not be aware of what you all supposed administrators are doing to their image. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ibibiogrl (talk • contribs) 21:41, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
Hi Mops,
Pls read my comments on the ANI page. I think Ibibiogrl means well, she just needs some guidance, and she's not willing to take it from me. — kwami (talk) 22:17, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
- Obviously we would like to have contributors from that part of the world, but Ibibiogrl's record here is so unpromising that I think we need good assurances that something will change in the future. (I would welcome any evidence that Ibibiogrl means well. It is hard to improve the encyclopedia when you have no interest in or respect for its policies. Read her statement above if you are uncertain about that). Mentorship has value only for someone who understands that something has gone wrong and would be willing to work with a mentor. EdJohnston (talk) 22:46, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
- I agree with Ed in this case - I have no grudge against Ibibiogrl, but the editor's attitude, despite multiple pleas for otherwise, remained combative and even insulting at points. If there's a serious expression of guilt and the editor decides they'd like to walk a different path, I'd be happy to help. However, as it is now, I believe the block should stand. m.o.p 22:52, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
- I agree that it would require some indication that she wants help. Just my 2¢ as the person she's most upset with. — kwami (talk) 23:05, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
- For the record, your input is highly appreciated, and very admirable; as the editor in conflict with her, I respect your neutrality and helpfulness. As for Ibibiogrl, we'll see where that goes. Cheers! m.o.p 00:59, 17 June 2011 (UTC)
Can you adopt me i want a new adopter.
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Mr. Pit (2nd nomination)
This isn't personalI belive the AFD on Campaign for "santorum" neologism was closed way to early and am contesting your close.
An editor has asked for a deletion review of Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2011 June 21. Because you closed the deletion discussion for this page, speedily deleted it, or otherwise were interested in the page, you might want to participate in the deletion review. KoshVorlon' Naluboutes Aeria Gloris 12:17, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
James Ball
Thank you for your concern. But I will not be blocked - _I am adding_ wikipedia to adblock. I also feel regret for having donated to the site before, but this will not happen again. Demonuminon (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 23:25, 23 June 2011 (UTC).
Thomas James BallWhy the hell did you delete his page?
Does his suffering mean nothing to you?
Heartless bitch. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.57.206.141 (talk • contribs)
Hey, Master of Puppets, OBVIOUSLY there is a public interested in keeping this article. Restore your deletion. Look at the massive flood of comments regarding your deletion here: http://www.<linkremoved>.com/2011/06/24/the-organized-silencing-of-a-man-publicly-burned-to-death/ and here http://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/i81rw/the_organized_silencing_of_a_man_publicly_burned/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Romerom (talk • contribs) 20:05, 24 June 2011 (UTC)
- Ball HIT A FOUR-YEAR-OLD CHILD, refused to pay child support, called for insurrection, demanded terrorism and violence as a solution, ultimately killed himself (leaving his children without a father) and damaged public property in the process. Even after all that, his incoherent message has mostly been ignored except by the less discriminating people claiming to speak for "men's rights" who haven't bothered to look into the details of his case. (If you really want to damage your cause, adopt a grown man who hits his own four-year-old child and flakes out on his child support as your poster boy.) --Orange Mike | Talk 20:26, 24 June 2011 (UTC) (proud father who has never hit his child in his lifetime)
Hey, "proud father who never hit his child in his lifetime", not everybody is against disciplining their children by spanking. He said his daughter was licking his hand, and he had told her repeatedly to stop. She didn't, and he smacked her. He didn't punch her, or send her to the hospital, or cause any serious injury. Just enough to have his wife baited into calling the police on him by child protective services. As for child support, he paid his child support until the point where he wasn't able to afford it due to an employment issue. Is that such a crazy thing to have happen? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.211.155.1 (talk) 04:28, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
- Again, while I do sympathize with the family and supporters, I am not taking sides, nor do I have any bias in this situation. I am not a feminist, nor am I a misogynist - I am fair and neutral towards all people, whether they be abusive fathers or abused fathers.
- This deletion was enforced solely in keeping with Wikipedia's long-established policies. Mr. Ball's death, while indeed tragic, was not reported throughout the reliable media enough to show his notability.
- I hope this makes sense to all those saddened by Mr. Ball's passing. Cheers, m.o.p 21:04, 24 June 2011 (UTC)
- I understand that you do not think that Mr. Ball's death is something that qualifies as an event and thus deleted said article. I disagree but I do see the merits of your argument. However, you claim to be unbiased in this debate and yet for someone who judges on the letter of the law you break the law and close debate 2.5 days before final judgment is to be rendered. If you have no corner then I ask why make this article a special case that it must be quelled , by your own admission, 2.5 days before any other articles found in similar circumstances are voted upon. I petition you to reinstate and allow the normal course of the discussion continue for the 2.5 days, allow the full opportunity for the pro side to make their case then recluse yourself from the final judgment. This is the only way to ensure transparency so that your claim of neutrality can be believed. CaffOMHW (talk) 03:28, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
- Ahead of things, let me tell you that I appreciate the civility.
- Wikipedia's policies aren't law - they're guidelines. As an administrator, it's my job to apply policy in a way that is completely devoid of bias and benefits the encyclopedia as a whole.
- On a side note, the deletion nomination was closed 1.5 days before the normal time. The page had a whole work week to be saved, rewritten or reworked; however, due to the lack of outside sourcing that carried reliability, there was nothing to keep that wasn't editorialized or unencyclopedic. I would also like to point out that almost every account that voiced their opinion in the 'keep' spectrum had either only edited that page or had edited very little aside from the page. Meanwhile, the deletion argument was put forward by experienced users.
- Though I understand that some people take offense to my early closure, I assure them that one extra day would not have yielded success, and that I took many factors into consideration before closing the discussion.
- Again, thank you for the civility, but I won't be overturning judgment or recreating a deletion discussion at this date. m.o.p 08:17, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
ITNthx for the 2 quick updates of my nom ;)
but also can you see the bolivia one. its got support and very nearly out of the news. we could tack it nearer the border.Lihaas (talk) 22:26, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
Ball closure.
Thank God you are an ambassador for WP, and against censorship, MoP. When Wikipedia fails, and it eventually will, it will largely be because most people don't like to be gamed and would rather not read well cultivated information that is maintained by dishonest brokers who hide behind rules that are never applied in an even-handed manner. The idea that a story is not relevant merely because it is not yet encyclopedic is ridiculous when one sees all the articles which linger on for months or years in the same state. The idea that a story is not relevant because the motivations/justifications of the user are suspect would be grounds for eliminating half the biographical articles in WP. It smacks of an agenda. The appearance of impropriety is as bad as actual impropriety.173.78.20.96 (talk) 04:51, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
- I appreciate the feedback.
- I do my best to maintain an equal, proportionate response in all dealings on Wikipedia; I don't defend things I like, or attack things I dislike, just for the reason of screwing with people. That strikes me as childish. Instead, the most I can do is try to help others understand Wikipedia policies, which are generally mind-bending and hard to grasp (for example, most people ask, "What's the reasoning a war hero isn't considered notable when Donkey Kong is?").
- Maybe one day the policies will change. I mean, most of these were written five, six year ago - the world's changing, and I expect they will with time. But, for now, the guidelines handle what comes in.
- Again, thanks for the input. I appreciate not being personally attacked - it makes it easier to reply. Cheers, m.o.p 05:08, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Natami (2nd nomination)
- The close was thoroughly thought-out, so there's not much ground for me to explore that I haven't already. If you're set on going to DRV, there's nothing I can say which will change your mind, and it's your right to ask for a review. However, current consensus sits at delete (unless the 'keep' side is hiding an ace-in-the-hole reliable source or something). Cheers, m.o.p 04:55, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- So, what about the reliable sources we already brought up in the AfD such as this interview in Amiga Future or this news article from nr2.ru? We've already established that Amiga Future isn't sponsored by a hardware company as one !voter there falsely claimed. On a related note, did you discount the !votes from individuals making misleading statements or those claiming there were "no independent reliable sources"? (I could tell you how that !voter happened to show up there, but he isn't going to like it.) I could also link to forum posts by another delete !voter who showed up there who was very much into a "delete at any cost" mode because he doesn't like "amiga clones". --Tothwolf (talk) 05:11, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- Those sources were there before the previous close, and I, like the previous administrator, do not think they're strong enough.
- I've already covered what kind of rationale was discounted and what wasn't.
- As for your last statement about other editors - I'm not quite sure what your point is, but I don't think it's relevant. As I said, I've discounted any rationale that does not apply policy.
- Cheers, m.o.p 05:33, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- Uh, no...nr2.ru was only brought up in the second AfD. Strong enough is also an argument to be made in a !vote, not a closing statement. --Tothwolf (talk) 05:56, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- My apologies, the Russian source was indeed added after the first AfD. Still too shaky for a stand-alone article, though. Cheers, m.o.p 13:42, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- To follow up on my earlier comment, while I don't really want to get into an "X did this because of Y" sort of thing with regards to this AfD, there were a number of delete !voters who showed up there for personal reasons/vendettas/bias and/or who made false statements about sources. Despite the template at the top of the AfD, the second AfD also didn't suffer from the forum canvassing that the first did. One of the delete !voters actually came by way of the forum and first AfD and was trolling because of his personal dislike of Amiga clones. --Tothwolf (talk) 15:33, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
If they have valid, policy-based rationale, their personal motivation doesn't matter, solely for the reason that an encyclopedia based on liking or disliking things would crumble instantly. I'm sure some of the deletion crew could just-as-easily blame keep voters for being enthusiasts and fans of Natami - but that's not important. As a result, making allegations of personal bias is unnecessary. The help is appreciated, but there's nothing I can do with the information. m.o.p 15:39, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- It matters when someone makes false statements and tries to hide what they are doing behind policy. As for keeps, quite a number appear to be from well established editors who don't appear to be all that interested in Amiga topics. As for myself, I wasn't even aware of NatAmi until the first AfD and didn't even !vote in the first AfD since I thought it was pretty obvious it was headed for a no-consensus close. --Tothwolf (talk) 15:58, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- Again, if their rationale is grounded in policy, their motivation does not matter, simply because it's impossible to discern someone's intent through text, and because the second someone accuses another of favoritism/malicious intent the entire argument turns into a bunch of people shouting, "You're lying." That's why there's nothing I can do with your information in this case. Cheers, m.o.p 16:02, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- Apologies to you, M.O.P., for addressing another editor on your talk page, but I just wanted to jump in this conversation. Tothwolf, with no prejudice against you at all I strongly suggest you take this in perspective. There have been two AFDs and an ANI report over this article. The way you treated me on my talk page threatening DRV because I was a new administrator was, as I feel it, borderline harassing. That you canvassed two other administrators to talk to me was also a below the belt move. In good faith, I relisted the debate and it has closed again as delete. I strongly suggest taking the advice at WP:DGAF into account here and let the issue go. I don't think there will be a problem recreating this article, even pulling the old content back from the deletion log, when the subject has better sources in a broader community. I hold no ill feeling toward you, this is purely honest advice.--v/r - TP 16:46, 27 June 2011 (UTC)]
- TParis, while you are correct in that this talk page is not the place for this, because you brought this up here and you seem to value honest feedback, I'll address this here.
In no way did I ever threaten you with DRV, let alone because you were a new administrator (discussion in question). I did however upon noticing that you had passed RFA only days earlier decide it best not to press you further in public and instead sent you this short email: "Sigh. I just noticed you just finished your RFA. The Natami AfD was a bad AfD to pick to close right out of the gate. It is likely to end up at DRV and given the magazine I mentioned, overturned. I really wish you would reconsider your close. You might have noticed I didn't even !vote in the AfD itself, however I did point out a number of things and took a couple of people to task for making false or misleading statements." That is the only email I sent you about the matter and not once did I ever threaten you with DRV. Please get your facts correct before making statements such as this because such mistakes can have a negative effect on others.
After you replied expressing your disagreement over the sources (and implied that I might be biased because I sometimes contribute to computing-related articles) I asked a number of other administrators (way more than two, actually) what they thought of the AfD's close because I wanted unbiased feedback to see if I was somehow totally off-track before I initiated a DRV. The feedback I got was fairly unanimous in that the close was problematic. Before I had a chance to draft a DRV however, you reverted your own close and relisted the AfD from scratch with a new listing. In no way did I ever "canvass" anyone to "talk to you" and if others did contact you directly, they did so at their own discretion and for their own reasons.
There indeed have been two AfDs, the first of which you closed (although one could also argue that the second was merely a relist of the first). The AN/I "discussion" you also mentioned wasn't really over this article or the first AfD, it was an attempt by someone to game AN/I when they were unable to bully me on their talk page. Please be more careful making these sort of blanket statements in the future because as I mentioned above such statements can cause problems for others. --Tothwolf (talk) 17:38, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- You're email was exactly like your reply here. You like to make threats without actually making them: "such statements can cause problems". There is very little way your email cannot be interpreted as anything other than a threat of DRV because I am a new administrator. This is all I'll say on M.O.P.'s talk page as I came here to offer honest advice and you don't seem interested in it. If you'd like to discuss further with me, you know where to find my talk page.--v/r - TP 17:51, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- TParis, in no way did I ever make an implied threat. While I may be a little blunt and abrasive at times (or maybe I'm just an assume good faith in that you simply misremembered the facts I outlined above when you made this statement here. It is easy to forget a few details here or there and not everyone maintains detailed notes for this sort of stuff (I do, for a number of reasons, although I didn't always).
As far as honest advice goes, this is a two-way street and I gave you my opinion as well. If you choose to ignore and discount it, so be it, but I'd suggest you be much more careful in the future and get your facts correct before you make the sort of statement you made above. Such statements can and do cause problems for other editors. Who knows, it may just be that you've not been around long enough yet to have witnessed people blocked or punished in some way because someone else didn't have their facts together. (If you do decide you want to continue this discussion, perhaps we should take this elsewhere.) --Tothwolf (talk) 18:14, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
]
Heaton Park Hebrew Congregation (2nd nomination)
Natami
Thought you might want to know
- (talk page stalker) That's just the same little ideological website which has been pushing for the "Martyrdom of St. Thomas Ball" attention since day one; no actual new coverage. --Orange Mike | Talk 14:34, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
- I guess I should also mention that the way I found it, was that someone tried submitting it to Fark.com last night. The admins did not greenlight it, so that particular submission/thread did not go to the main Fark page, appearing only to those with Totalfark accounts. The submission said something like "Wikipedia deletes burning man" (I'm not at a computer with TF access so I might not have that exactly right). It might, theoretically, based on the submission, be considered some sort of off-site canvassing (it was submitted with the asinine tag). For what its worth, the thread went uncommented, so I don't think that particular attempt garnered any support. I just wanted to drop a line in case that this was just the first drop of a large storm. If I see anything else, I'll drop a line here. Umbralcorax (talk) 15:58, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
Wiki ad
4chan raid
Thomas James Bell, new information
- (reliable sources. --Orange Mike | Talk 13:33, 30 June 2011 (UTC)]
Happy Birthday
![](//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3d/Nuvola_apps_cookie.svg/50px-Nuvola_apps_cookie.svg.png)
Just a happy Birthday message to you, Master of Puppets, from the Wikipedia Birthday Committee! Have a great day!
Monterey Bay (talk) 02:00, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
User:BillyMoses
Natami
AFD
- Your input is appreciated, though there's nothing I can do with it but take a note. If you'd like, you can weigh in at the next AfD(s), when/if they arise. Cheers, m.o.p 19:42, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
Dr Myko San – Health from Mushrooms
- I'd be happy to help! However, I'm currently away from a computer (typing this on my phone), so I'll have to check in on the 11th of July. Does that sound okay? m.o.p 15:40, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
- wp:NODEADLINE :-) LeadSongDog come howl! 15:48, 7 July 2011 (UTC)]
From a former Wikipedian
-71.234.90.0 (talk) 04:50, 8 July 2011 (UTC)
- Hey, thanks so much! I'm not sure who you are, but I really appreciate the sentiment. Hope all is well! m.o.p 20:49, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
Deletion review for Thomas James Ball
DRV comment
DRV
Could you please overturn the deletion of these files per File:Signature of Amitabh Bachchan.svg and File:Signature of Zakir Hussain.svg:
- File:Signature of Vishwanathan Anand.svg
- File:Signature of Vijay Mallya.svg
- File:Signature of Venkaiah Naidu.svg
- File:Signature of Sudeep Bandhopadhyay.svg
- File:Signature of Sonia Gandhi.svg
- File:Signature of Somnath Chatterjee.svg
- File:Signature of Ratan Tata.svg
- File:Signature of Kumar Mangalam Birla.svg
- File:Signature of Rajeev Shukla.svg
- File:Signature of Raj Babbar.svg
- File:Signature of Rahul Gandhi.svg
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Diligent07Appears to be less than new. See User talk:Raoulduke25 where he states that this is a deliberate series of edits.
- Can you please help defend our collective effort of including the obscene middle-finger incident in the Cheney Mason article? It should be maintained in the article for public interest, etc. Please see the Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard#Cheney Mason discussion page and include your thoughts in favor of having the content remain in the interests of the public, etc
[8], [9] and even imputation that an editor has a connection with the person [10]. He has been on since April, and started off as being experienced on WP IMHO. Kindly keep an eye out please. Especially for any sign of a real "collective effort"? Such as [11]? Cheers. Collect (talk) 11:36, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
A cookie for you!
Keep up the good work defending the "Wiki" against genre warriors. Thanks for the help! talk) 17:31, 13 July 2011 (UTC)]
Hello. You have a new message at Lionelt's talk page.
Semi protection
OK, this thing with the militant atheism page is impossibleThese guys are incredible... I could dig up diffs to show you how they revert and wikilawyer even the SMALLEST attempt to move the article closer to NPOV. But that would take a long time for you to read. How about I show you this instead:
These guys are utterly without scruples. Who in their right mind would remove the NPOV dispute tag when heated arguments have been raging for weeks and NO moves whatsoever have been made to fix the article? Oh right, that would be someone in their right mind who is running a propaganda platform.
Anyway... I wanted to ask your advice on what to do. These guys are impossible to work with. Most of the other editors have given up and refuse to put this page on their watchlist. So what to do then? Request formal mediation? Articles for deletion? Something else?
Me and the other editors would like to see the page replaced with a disambiguation page... since literally ALL the content has already been covered (better) in Criticism of atheism, State atheism and New Atheism.
Obhave (talk) 13:21, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
- Hello User:Master of Puppets. I noticed this conversation and thought I might add that an NPOV policy. Obhave (talk) 13:11, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
- One more thing, m.o.p... my opponents are currently twisting your words to make it look as if you were scolding user:Mann_jess all along. Obhave (talk) 14:42, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
]
User:Jasper Deng page protection
- No worries! m.o.p 19:35, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
Is there a procedure for brutal uncollaborated editing with a destructive intent?I noticed that you recently had problems with proposed brutal editing by Peter S Strempel. Although he has been more sensible on your project in the end (possibly because of your administrator status?) he has not been so with regard to the astrology project pages to which he made a similar 'razor-promise'. Could you please see this Afd request which is one of three he made for major 'history of astrology' articles within the last hour, with a promise on another important page that any comment which is not refrences within 7 days will be removed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Babylonian_astrology
Is there anything that can be done about this officially to stop him wreaking havoc with content whilst he knows that the small group of editors providing content on these pages are already stretched to the limit trying to keep up with what needs to be done? I don't understand what drives some people to want to edit WP like this, but I think it is entriely the result of his ego-stress that when he proposed an edit for a passage, no one favoured it. Hope you can help or advise Zac Δ talk 01:15, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks! assume good faith; I believe that Peter is simply trying to help improve Wikipedia. While his methods may be lacking in some areas, he has displayed a pretty decent grasp on the policies he's trying to enforce.
- However, I agree that he shouldn't be making any changes if they're not discussed with the community first. Do you mind pulling up a few diffs of where he went against consensus? I'll approach him with your concern then. Thanks, m.o.p 03:57, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
- Actually there hasn't been any significant content dispute with Peter. He proposed a change to a section edit which wasn't a very good proposition and a few editors commented but without rancur, and I added a new section post immediately afterwards to point out the proiposed change would contradict with how the definition was given correctly at a later point in the article, outlining how I understood WP policy expected the main astrology article to pull its own content together, along with its summarised content from its daughter pages. Peter never responded to this but other editors started working in that direction immediately. Then, without further discussion or comment, Peter came back four days later to announce an intention to take his 'word razor' to all unreferenced assertions on the main astrology page, its sub-pages, and the portal page itself, to ensure his perceived disagreement was not circumvented in pages he viewed as content forks (I'm still not sure what he means by that). My response to that can be seen - a perfectly reasonable request for him to do what he felt was most productive, but consider that citation-tagging was the way to go. I also placed comments on his talk-page, which you can read if you are interested. That he erupted into a frenzy of AfD requests last night says something, I think, about his unwillingness to discuss and engage in other views. Most of his posts appear as new section declarations that don't appear to have considered the responses other editors give him.
- I've summarised this in the ANI request Dougweller started. The deletion requests were a step too far IMO, and I'm concerned that Peter would spring to such drastic measures in reaction to what he perceives to be me not allowing him to do what he wants to do. I'll be away for a few days so I'm tying up my WP activity now. That underlines my concern that he intends to take such drastic action with only one week's notice of intent. Thanks for looking into this. It would be good if something could be proposed to stop huge problems before they occur. 10:35, 22 July 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zachariel (talk • contribs
)
- One last request. I have just noticed that a related complaint, which is quite serious but has been sidetracked (deliberatly IMO) by Peter's suggestions that I have prevented him from doing what he wants, has been collapsed as "going nowehere" by an unsympathetic editor.
- "Its ben here several days and no admin has even sniffed at a block or ban - clearly you're not going to get admin action. So this should got to WP:DR or WP:RFCU if you want to take it further. I've boldly collapsed this, though I won't be surprised if someone uncollapses it"
- If you can find the time could you at least take a look at that related problem, and consider uncollapsing it, because the issues are serious and have gone beyond the point where Dispute resolution are appropriate. I will be away and have nothing more to add, but the problems identified still remain. Zac Δ talk 10:58, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
What to do?
- I've started a threat at ANI. Those AfDs are purely pointy and if no one objects I'll close them. talk) 06:11, 22 July 2011 (UTC)]
- Replied there. m.o.p 08:20, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
Talk Page on Militant Atheism - Introduction Section
- The update is appreciated, thanks very much. I've been dealing with life for the past two weeks, but I'll be back to close that discussion tonight or tomorrow. Thanks again, m.o.p 22:03, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
- Just bringing this up again, given the current state of this section. I believe the discussion will be archived automatically if not closed. I'm sorry if I sound pushy with you having a lot on your plate of late. If you would prefer, I could alert User:Fastily instead. Turnsalso (talk) 16:55, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
ITN
- I knew that tab I closed had unfinished business on it... thanks. 2008 University of Central Arkansas shootings is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.
The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2008 University of Central Arkansas shootings(2nd nomination) until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on good quality evidence, and our policies and guidelines.
Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article.
talk 14:00, 1 September 2011 (UTC)]
Hey
- Done! Both your userpage and the transcluded page are protected. Cheers, « ₣M₣ » 04:09, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Restored. m.o.p 05:21, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
]
User talk:Joshua the Independent
- My mistake - my block script auto-filled the edit summary. The block was issued due to the user's newfound will to disrupt Wikipedia intentionally. Their previous contributions are welcome, but this behaviour necessitates administrative action. m.o.p 21:52, 13 September 2011 (UTC)
Say hi to your imaginary girlfriend for me
- Well, I do love getting hate mail. Thanks for the laugh! Cheers, m.o.p 05:17, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
...further to the above lovely note, I weighed in on Calabe's talk page - there appears to be more confusion here than at first glance. bou·le·var·dier (talk) 05:19, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
Sorry to drop by again, but Silentsizzlingsausage (talk · contribs) would appear to be a duck. bou·le·var·dier (talk) 05:31, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
- No, it's not an issue! Thanks for the note, blocked. Cheers, WP:SPI. Thanks again, m.o.p 06:13, 14 September 2011 (UTC)]
I have to admit ...
- See the above section. The link is apparently a very subtle spam link that Calabe is removing, and socks are springing up to revert him. Swarm u / t 10:20, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
Moderation
- Alright, I'll make my way back. Thanks for letting me know! m.o.p 05:18, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
User:12.139.96.228
- To be honest, this case is perplexing. Half of this user's edits are constructive (mostly sourced), the other half aren't sourced - and the user won't reply to anybody. I'm also too busy to go through every edit and confirm whether or not it's good. I forgot about this for a while - I'll think about it tonight and figure something out for tomorrow. Thanks for reminding me! m.o.p 05:18, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
Whoops
- Whoops! Must not have been looking when I ran my block script. Thanks for letting me know, I've reblocked them for a far shorter (technically, an infinitely shorter) time. Cheers, m.o.p 22:58, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
Ashleyleggat404
- You're fully right in that the blanking policy covers indefinite blocks. I've removed the user's talk page rights as a result. Thanks again! m.o.p 00:28, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkback
Moderation
- If you look into this please consider whether Anupam's actions on the talk page and the entry itself are violations of WP:OWN. He's been driving off those he disagrees with by bludgening them to death with argument and heavily policing the entry claiming that there is a consensus written in stone despite many dissenting voices. Others have taken to simply calling him "the article's owner." I have had enough of this behavior personally and left him a message about it on his talk page. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:52, 20 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Dear User:Master of Puppets, the above user has misrepresented the occurrences at the article. I started another Introduction discussion at the article's talk page but User:Griswaldo has chosen to edit war over a second NPOV tag, despite the fact that one already exists in the article. He has done so despite the fact that the Introduction is being discussed in a peaceful manner at the talk page, in violation of your injunction: "We've only got consensus on this proposed versions (and loose consensus at that) - please do not attempt to subvert said consensus by making undiscussed changes." I have posted a message on his talk page about this behaviour. Nevertheless, I also do not wish to argue with the user personally and would prefer if you could go back to moderating the discussion between the two parties at the talk page. Thanks for taking the time to read this message. With regards, AnupamTalk 20:58, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- His "injunction?" Adding a neutrality tag to a specific sentence which an editor disputes the neutrality of is hardly "subverting the consensus by making undiscussed changes." Please stop wikilawyering to get your way. There is a growing consensus against your position regarding this article in general as well, despite your aggressive policing of the entry and the talk page. See ]
- I just thought that I would mention that User:Griswaldo, after seeing this message, just now decided to comment in the discussion rather than edit war against consensus further. Thanks for taking the time to read this message. With regards, AnupamTalk 21:51, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- "Edit war against consensus further?" My comment there has nothing to do with your message here. I've made three total edits to this entry ever. One was a copy edit in June, another was reverting an IP vandal, and the third was the revert of your Ownership edit. Please do not insinuate that I'm a edit warrior on this page. It is disingenuous.Griswaldo (talk) 22:08, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Thank you all for approaching me with your concerns.
- Obviously, I do not support Anupam - this is because I'm remaining a neutral third party, and, therefore, can't take sides. However, Griswaldo: please keep in mind that I did ask for all discussion to take place on the talk page. Why not just add your complaints to the talk page? It would have been much easier to discuss.
- I do agree that adding a NPOV tag, while slightly redundant, isn't horrible, but your intent seems to have been to stir discussion on that particular section, discussion that would be much more appropriate on the talk page.
- As for your and Snalwibma's concerns of Anupam trying to 'own' the article, I'm curious as to what you two mean; what 'delusions'?
- Also, Griswaldo, I don't think Anupam meant to insinuate you are an edit warrior (though this is just my take) - rather, they wanted to add the note that you've weighed in on discussion. m.o.p 22:10, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- your intent seems to have been to stir discussion on that particular section - No that's incorrect. I didn't add this tag, I simply reverted Anupam's attempt to own the page when he removed it. I agreed with JimWae's addition of the tag and found Anupam's removal to be unwarranted and a display of ownership.Griswaldo (talk) 22:16, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Note that, for all intents and purposes, reverting somebody is adding whatever is included in your edit, regardless of who put it there first. You revert a removal, you're agreeing with the edition you're reverting to - simple.
- And, if you agreed with JimWae, then we go back to what I was saying earlier - say so on the talk page. Two of you agree? Great! That's closer to consensus. But it means nothing if you express your support by reverting removals.
- Again, as I've asked multiple times, please stop saying that Anupam is owning anything without giving me evidence of it first. m.o.p 22:22, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Dear User:Master of Puppets, thank you for your reply to all of us. The reason User:Snalwibma stated that I was attempting to "own" the article was because I reverted an undiscussed removal from the article, which not only myself, but two other users objected to. In fact, two anonymous IP Addresses also reverted User:Snalwibma. I was open to compromise on the issue and stated that I would accept User:Turnsalso's compromise on the issue. I kindly request you to look at that discussion yourself and get an honest reading of it. Also, the only reason I removed the second NPOV tag was because there was already one present, which I did not remove. I only reverted the addition of a second NPOV tag once and even explained myself on the talk page. When I went to the talk page, I found rude accusations and an anti-collaborative spirit, despite the fact that I have been nothing but polite. I hope this helps. With regards, AnupamTalk 22:25, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry - I know I should not rise to the bait, but I have to object to the comment "The reason User:Snalwibma stated that I was attempting to 'own' the article was because I reverted an undiscussed removal ..." How dare Anupam presume to know what is in my mind! The reason I describe Anupam's attitude to the article as one of ownership is because that is how s/he behaves - "policing" every edit, pronouncing on whether s/he "accepts" or "rejects" it, peremptorily reverting anything s/he does not like, without discussion, presuming to know others' motives, and judging them as fit/unfit to contribute to the article. This has been going on for weeks, if not months. It is impossible to discuss the content of the article, let alone improve the text, because everything is filtered through the approval/disapproval of the article's self-appointed guardian, Anupam. tendentious or disruptive when they bring up certain issues, even when they are clearly in the majority. That is not collaborative. I stopped editing the article heavily because of those issues. I don't have any delusions that my opinion is worth more than anyone else's here, but I would think that the large number of established, experienced editors who are all saying there's a problem, would indicate something. — Jess· Δ♥ 19:45, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
Please reconsider your full protection of Militant atheist
- In case you didn't notice, I asked that people think twice about pointing fingers at each other. If you'd like to start a sockpuppetry investigation, let me know, and we can take that avenue - however, don't accuse other editors of ownership without substance. If you think Anupam is trying to own things, give me something. Diffs, edits, anything. I'll check it out for you, but right now, baseless accusations are not what I'm looking for.
- Also, notice that I protected the article with your edit being the last one. How is that validating the very person you've been reverting?
- The protection will stay until consensus is reached. m.o.p 22:19, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Because protection is what he wants quite clearly. He's stalling conversation and shouting down people on the talk page, where, if you have a look, you'll see he's clearly in the minority. Because of your "injunction" as he calls it, he also claims that no matter how many people agree with a certain change it is illegitimate. I'll be happy to gather some diffs, but my first message to you above was to please look into the situation carefully before acting on it. Did you do that and come to the conclusion that I'm wrong or did you not head that request? Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:29, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Yes, I did heed your request. I don't see any ownership behaviour from Anupam, though, being involved in multiple disputes, I didn't have the time to read every last word on the page, so you're free to provide evidence. However, from what I can see, Anupam's last proposal was supported by the majority - not to count (and I don't mean to imply that I decide where consensus lies by looking at pure numbers), but from looking at pure supports versus opposes, eight people (nine including Anupam) support while four oppose. How does that make Anupam's views a minority? m.o.p 22:37, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- It depends on what view you are talking about. The current RFC on the introduction is something that most people don't even want to engage because most people think this very entry should be split up and integrated into other entries. I reluctantly engaged the RfC just now myself. The last time the more serious question about the entry was asked, several of the new commentators were not around, and there was "no consensus" found because the opposing side was chalk full of SPAs and editors with a view that is outright hostile to atheism (which is a legitimate view to hold, but it is a minority view). Let me find you some diffs.Griswaldo (talk) 22:43, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- User:Griswaldo, that is exactly the issue: you do not want to collaborate with other users on the talk page, which is why you were reluctant to participate in the current RfC. Moreover, there were several SPA's on the side of the opposition as well, including WP:NPOV. In addition, the split was again recently discussed and the specific case to do so was refuted by several editors. As such, there was no consensus for it. I hope this helps. With regards, AnupamTalk 22:52, 20 September 2011 (UTC)]
- No. You are trying to write an article that violates WP:SYNTH because it conflates New Atheism with oppressive communist regimes and their histories of violence. That's hardly NPOV. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:59, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
Hi m.o.p., as someone who occasionally looks at that page (and then washes my hands), I just want to compliment you as having done the right thing in full protecting. By way of unsolicited advice to the involved editors, the best thing they could do is to allow The Wrong Version to sit there a good long time, and devote their energy to other things. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:54, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
]
Yes, please reconsider your full protection of
WP:RS—deserve protection against misinformed reverts. Thanks Geremia (talk) 16:12, 22 September 2011 (UTC)]
Diffs of
- I'm not really sure where the ownership is here; nowhere in our policies is it stated that a user can't promote their RFC on the subject talk page. If it's ongoing and they'd like to move it to the forefront, what's wrong with that? More so, some of your summaries seem inaccurate - in that last diff, you state that Anupam is removing images, yet I only see Anupam adding an image (the peace dove that's at the top of the page). Also, you use repeating examples. m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Well clearly the last diff was wrong. Thanks for the vote of confidence. There are no repeat examples nor inaccurate summaries, just a mistaken copy paste of the second to last diff to the last position as well. I have fixed it. Cheers.
- Using "consensus claims from one RfC to reject changes made to article content
- Same as above. Using the "consensus" bludgeon to get his way. Please note that clearly we ought to edit by consensus, but this consensus is highly disputed, and IMO not there in the first place. The real problem is the way in which Anupam decides to use it like a trump card to remove changes he doesn't like. Ask yourself if all changes post "consensus" have been removed or just the ones Anupam decided he wanted removed.
Master of Puppets do you need more diffs or is this enough?Griswaldo (talk) 23:31, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Well I need more diffs because your "evidence" so far looks like a desperate attempt to incriminate an editor who has been very successful in persuading his colleagues to adopt his proposals. Anupam has presented his proposals, argued the merits and persuaded many editors. Anything you want to tell us about why you're having difficulty doing likewise? – Lionel (talk) 06:02, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- I don't see this is as conclusive evidence, either. And, it should be said - if people are editing against established consensus, then people are free to re-evaluate consensus, but edit-warring against it doesn't make much sense. m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- If not ownership then what is this - [28], [29], [30]? He removes two RfCs started by another editor, and revolving around the question that many of us actually find to be the fundamental question to answer regarding the entry. Then he edit wars to keep these RfCs off the page, claiming again to have some sort of authority stemming from your prior actions. If you aren't willing to do something here I'm going to another administrator and I'm going to ask for your initial "consensus," your strong arm administrating, and your lack of action here to be reviewed as well. Thanks.Griswaldo (talk) 17:08, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Anupam has already apologized for reverting those RfC additions, and we've moved past it. He also didn't claim to have administrative authority, but was waiting for my approval. We've cleared this up, it's not an issue. So no, I'm not going to take any action (as I've said here and on ANI). Now, if you'd like to threaten me and tell me that, since I'm not cooperating with your wills, you'll go to another administrator, that's fine - as I've said, you can seek outside opinions - but remember to keep a cool head, because borderline threats are not appreciated. m.o.p 21:49, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- It was not a threat, "borderline" or otherwise. You are conveniently ignoring a growing number of voices who are all saying the same thing - there is an ownership problem here. The deletion issue has not been "cleared up" as far as I'm concerned. Whenever it is mentioned Anupam insists that he did not "unilaterally" delete the RfCs from the page, which is a blatant distortion, since that is exactly what he did. He continues to act as a policeman at the page, and yes he does continue to cite your authority. Did you bother to read the many diffs I posted above in the second two sections? I will quote three random examples from those I provided for you if you want.
- When he first deleted the two RfCs he wrote: "rv - see discussion with reviewing administrator; approval needed to start another RfC while one is already occurring."
- When he deleted a fact tag that JimWae put into the lede: "rv excessive tagging per talk; tag is already extant in header; do not subvert previous consensus but gain consensus for potential additions per administrative notice"
- When he rejected another recent change to the entry: "accepted edits by User:Jkhwiki; rv removal of longstanding referenced content - see discussion on talk page and gain consensus for action per administrative injunction"
- In talk page comments and in edit summaries he consistently does the same thing. He refers to your authority, either directly or indirectly through your "notice" or your "injunction" as he likes to call it. I never said the claimed to have administrative authority, I said that he's using your authority, by way of your comments, such as the closure of the AfD to bully people. Do you deny that he citing your comments, because if you do then I must have fabricated those quotes. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:32, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
If you say "If you don't do A, then I'm going to go and do B", that's a threat. Anyway, that's not the issue - we've already covered all the issues with the RfC reverting, and Anupam won't do it again. Why keep raising hell over it?
We've already covered everything you bring up. And no, I'm not denying anything. I'm just saying this, and it's very simple: I don't think there has been any blatant ownership here. That's my judgment. If you disagree, again, feel free to raise this with another administrator or on ANI. m.o.p 23:12, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Regarding the new RFC, I still think there has not passed yet too much time since the last discussion about splitting the article. As far as I knew, repeating these sorts of debates (like splitting, deleting, renaming) before a larger amount of time has passed (like 6 months) is usually discouraged. And as others have also argued earlier, even if having multiple RFCs is possible, it's not very useful, and the new RFC seems to discourage further discussion about improving the lead introduction. So preventing multiple RFCs (and also a RFC about an issue debated not too long ago) does not look to me like evidence of bad faith intentions. Cody7777777 (talk) 21:37, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Cody, would you mind linking me to the previous RfC on splitting? m.o.p 21:49, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- The previous attempt to split the article can be found here. Cody7777777 (talk) 21:55, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Response
Yes, it does. Thanks, m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Dear User:Master of Puppets, I just noticed that User:Binksternet started another RfC while a current one is occurring. Is this appropriate? I reverted the addition motioning for one until your response is confirmed. If it is acceptable, then I apologize and will revert my edit. I look forward to your response. With regards, AnupamTalk 15:14, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'll form my reply on ANI. m.o.p 17:12, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- When you do please take into account my comment just above, regarding Anupam's edit warring to remove talk page comments (namely these RfCs) posted by others on the talk page. If you still don't think this is WP:OWN then clearly other administrators are needed here.Griswaldo (talk) 17:15, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Dear User:Griswaldo, how is going to a neutral mediator to address the issue owning the article? I acknowledge that the article is in dispute and as a result, I am asking an administrator for advice in this matter, NOT handling things on my own, as you have done by edit warring. Your WP:OWN allegations have not only been dismissed by this administrator, but by several other users, including, User:Lionelt, User:Cody7777777 and User:NYyankees51. Thanks, AnupamTalk 17:27, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- In reply to Griswaldo: reverting the RfCs was a mistake, but we've cleared that up now. As Anupam has stated at ANI, the intent was not to discourage discussion. If you think my judgment is compromised, you're welcome to seek another administrator's input. m.o.p 21:04, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- And as further evidence of WP:OWN, see this. Anupam adds a comment to everything that anyone else says, as if he/she is the owner of the article and everyone else is a subordinate contributor. This particular instance is pretty benign (although it clutters up the talk page with an unnecessary comment that merely says "I agree"), but I do think that Anupam at least needs to learn how to avoid giving the appearance of thinking he/she owns the article, and to desist from chipping in and saying the same thing over and over again, which almost makes meaningful discussion impossible! SNALWIBMA ( talk - contribs ) 17:31, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- While the input is appreciated, as I've said before, making allegations of ownership without hard evidence isn't going to get us anywhere. Anupam is not stopping others from discussing changes or forming consensus, and that's all that matters - refactoring the talk page or commenting on an issue is not against policy, and I'm not going to tell someone to stop editing because it "looks" like they're doing something wrong. As said above, you're welcome to request another administrator's insight if you wish. m.o.p 21:04, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
COIHi
you've helped me out before, with a conflict of interest problem, so having much more experience than me on wikipedia, I thought I would be bold enough to ask again for help.
Similar problem to last, User_talk:Hobbycraft is editing the HOBBYCRAFT article and making changes that aren't citably right. I think the user name suggest and history suggests a conflict of interest case.
Can you please, speak to them addressing this issue.
Thank you very much for your help.
Markcoulter50 (talk) 22:27, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
- I've blocked that user for username violations. Thanks a lot for letting me know! Keep up the great work, m.o.p 23:00, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkbackcausa sui (talk) 18:47, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Hello. You have a new message at causa sui's talk page. causa sui (talk) 20:54, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Problematic editing on militant atheism
- I hope it's not considered defamatory to repeat the final line: "I merely present the diffs above, and let others draw their own conclusions. Is this a duck? Does it quack? You decide.". Unfortunately, the concerned community no longer has that opportunity. What did you decide on their behalf? Does this duck quack, or not? bobrayner (talk) 15:42, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- It's not your wording, it's the very idea of it. Going to what's allegorically a public place and shouting, "Hey, everybody, this man is a criminal!" is one step below blatantly forming a lynch mob. As I've said, I have no problem with your wording or evidence, just your location of choice. Wikipedia is not, unfortunately, a democracy - letting others draw their conclusions and voice their opinions is not how a sockpuppet investigation works.
- So yes, please don't go restoring any of that section. We're not discussing editors, we're discussing the content they produce. Anything else has a sub-board to deal with it (like WP:SPI).
- Hopefully that clears things up! I'll be happy to answer any more questions should you have them. Cheers, m.o.p 15:48, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Hello User:Bobrayner, I noticed the section you created on the militant atheism talk page. If you do feel the way you do about User:Turnsalso and the anonymous IP Addresses, you can take this up with WP:SPI. Thanks, AnupamTalk 15:52, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
Are you kidding my MoP? Above your write: Going to what's allegorically a public place and shouting, "Hey, everybody, this man is a criminal!" is one step below blatantly forming a lynch mob. AND We're not discussing editors, we're discussing the content they produce. Yet you call this edit by Lionelt "good faith," at WQA? MoP, I would not ask you to agree with me or to like me, but can I please ask you not to insult me with these double standards.Griswaldo (talk) 16:18, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
]
- Griswaldo, I mean no offense when I say this, but I'd appreciate it if you stayed out of discussions which didn't involve you. Also, please don't put words in my mouth. Thanks, m.o.p 16:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I have not put words in your mouth. You said that you would assume good faith about Lionel. If you "assume good faith" it means you assume his edits were in "good faith." If you did not intend that meaning I suggest you reconsider what you wrote. Also, if you want me to "stay out of discussion which don't involve me" then I suggest your first order of business should be to do the same thing yourself. You decided to post at WQA, when there was no mention of you or anything you've done in that thread. Once again, I expect people not to practice double standards. So as long as you cannot show me that you will treat me as you ask to be treated yourself, I will not oblige you. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:21, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Please stop bickering. I'm not quite sure what you're trying to accomplish here. I've already explained what I meant when I said assuming good faith, but I'll explain again: I assumed that Lionelt was not hounding or deliberately haranguing you. I did not say, at any point, that his edit content was good faith, and I've told him not to edit like that again. So please stop accusing me of saying things I haven't said.
- Also, I posted in WQA because, as a mediator in this case and as an administrator, it's my duty to weigh in on administrative noticeboards, especially when the case is an ongoing discussion I've been participating in for three months. It is not your duty to weigh in on discussions on my talk page that don't concern you. I hope the distinction is clear here. m.o.p 20:33, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I think you are confused about something. Content is never good faith. "Editing in good faith" and "good faith edits" refers to the intent of the editor always. It has nothing to do with content. My assumption that you also felt the edits were appropriate comes from the fact that you did not say they weren't appropriate and clearly feel that his intentions were good. If you'd like to set the record straight on that issue you still can. I've asked you twice now to discuss the actual edits that are the focal point of the thread. Also, I moved the thread to ANI, per the suggestion of the editor who marked it "resolved."Griswaldo (talk) 20:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- See Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#User:Lionelt_--_following_my_past_edits_to_drum_up_support_against_me. FYI, I copy pasted the entire discussion because both you and Collect were critical of my initial post and I thought it was the right thing to do to preserve that criticism in the record of the conversation. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:43, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- In reply to your first paragraph: I'm going to give up now, as it seems you're misunderstanding most of what I type, but you're the one who stated that the content was not good faith (as you said, not appropriate), and I agreed - I referred to his intent in replying to you, and said that I assumed good faith in his motives, not his replies. I can't really say that in a clearer way, so my apologies if it's hard to understand. Also, as I've already said, I've left a message for Lionelt about his edits, so clearly I do not feel they're appropriate. m.o.p 20:57, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I, too, find these double standards vexing.
- Which diff is defamatory?
- I had hitherto thought that people on the article talkpage might like to be aware of potential problems with votestacking on the article talkpage (and 3rr evasion, of course). Would it be permitted to add a link to that list of diffs when it's in a different place, or would you consider that defamatory too? bobrayner (talk) 16:23, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- As I said, the information is not defamatory, but the way it's presented is - we have specific processes available to pursue should one feel there are sockpuppets about. However, calling someone out with the intent of informing the community is overstepping your authority and damaging to the accused's character. Also, there's no way a community discussion about whether or not one editor is a sockpuppet can end in anything other than a sockpuppet investigation anyway.
- So, in closing, please don't bring issues like this to the talk page. If you're concerned about votestacking, take it to the appropriate venue - if your concerns are validated, we'll take measures against said puppets. Cheers, m.o.p 16:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I am very disappointed that it's no longer permissible to raise problems with article-editing on the article talkpage. Previous concerns about sockpuppetry were simply ignored; the difference this time is that it's backed by lots of diffs.
- I'm fairly confident that the people concerned have sufficient technical nous to make checkuser draw a blank. And, let's be entirely honest, within minutes of me creating an SPI, an admin of the right persuasion will be getting an email suggesting that an SPI needs their attention. And SPI does not see offsite coordination by a facebook group &c. Finally, any null result at SPI will be used at the article in much the same way as previous administrative decisions have been. So, I do not believe that an SPI will improve either the article, or the encyclopædia as a whole. bobrayner (talk) 17:08, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- If you don't think the pre-existing methods set in place for situations like this are sufficient, you can always raise that concern at the village pump or suggest a policy revision - however, SPI is the venue for these requests, and the only venue. The talk page can not substitute. m.o.p 17:10, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
76.228.226.122Thank you for blocking the anonymous user, who is being counterproductive and rude. (although I think the block should have been one week, but I guess ok at least)
Can you also please try to hide the edit summaries of these edits if possible?
This and
this
Thanks and regards, talk 05:04, 26 September 2011 (UTC)]
- I'll extend the block if this behaviour continues after the block period is over.
- As for the edit summaries, those don't warrant hiding - I apologize for their content, but they don't meet the criteria of what I should remove. It's best just to ignore them for now. Cheers, m.o.p 05:13, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
- Okay, good to know, if I did nothing wrong, no permanent block will be enforced. The IP does not volunteer on WP as an admin and so the disproportionately out of line comments and threats of his should be ignored. --talk 05:19, 26 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Sounds good. We only hide extremely offensive revisions; milder ones stay in the edit history. Thanks again for bringing this to our attention! Cheers, m.o.p 05:31, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
Email
Jasper Deng (talk) 05:29, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
- Reading. talk) 06:00, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Bad Girls Club
- I've blocked Junebea for 2 days for disregarding warnings. m.o.p 20:30, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks for helping :) Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 21:06, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkback
- And again.Griswaldo (talk) 04:24, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
- And again ... but maybe the last. You can settle this question once and for all. See the talk page.Griswaldo (talk) 06:09, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'm sure I'm not alone in wanting to hear your replies to the last responses posed to you at that page. IMO, I don't know why you went down the road you did, but as far as I can tell you're blatantly misrepesenting facts about your own actions when people are brining concerns to you. You might think that since you closed the RfC the matter is settled, but it is not. You're actions have not made my life any more pleasant in the last few days vis-a-vis trying to deal with Anupam's disruption and I think you owe us all answers. So please revisit this thread and deal with the open questions. Thanks.Griswaldo (talk) 02:19, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
- I invite you to stop asking the same question again and again. This would be appreciated. Thanks, m.o.p 02:33, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Block question
- No, I just block obviously bad-faith accounts on sight. Advertising/spam accounts fall under that category. m.o.p 00:37, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Thanks
- Thank you. I've unlocked the article for whatever may come. If I'm needed again, feel free to let me know. Thanks for the kind words again, m.o.p 05:12, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
reminder
- We're still waiting to see if the user understands COI policy (per Ed's question). I'll prod the user and see if they'll answer. talk) 19:20, 30 September 2011 (UTC)]
Nextel logo deleted
- Mmm, good point. What's the link to the logo in question? m.o.p 01:33, 2 October 2011 (UTC)
Support of Sage City SymphonyYou deleted this page before I had a chance to go back in and add the stuff that you wanted to see, including the links within Wikipedia to important composers such as Lou Callabro (who started this orchestra and cites it in his Wikipedia page) and Susan Hurley whose work we premiered (SC is also mentioned in her Wikipedia entry). (Let alone links about the works we have performed.) And we have a web site at www.sagecitysymphony.org, have existed for over 35 yrs and are a significant cultural resource in the Bennington area such that we receive grants from local, statewide and national foundations.
I broke my wrist last weekend and am doing one-handed pecking so it'll take me a few days to get that loaded in. We are going out for a bit now, but I would appreciate your undeleting the page so that I don't have to re-invent the starting part when I go back in tomorrow to add links. Or delete it entirely so that I can start fresh - at this point either would work as long as I can start some serious work on it tomorrow. I am the webmaster by the way, so I do have access to content and more links.
Thank you, Celia Murray — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.228.127.119 (talk) 14:22, 1 October 2011 (UTC)
- It looks like fixed everything up. Best of luck, m.o.p 01:35, 2 October 2011 (UTC)]
Reply on Deterence's talk page
MA
After the beating you took you deserve a cold one--on me! Thanks for being fair and balanced – Lionel (talk) 03:55, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
- Hey, thanks! Glad to help out. :) m.o.p 03:56, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
Deletion of Mau5trap Recordings
--neocharles (talk) 07:33, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Existence does not equal notability - the subject has to be notable to get a Wikipedia page. m.o.p 12:05, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
Questoin re: AIV
- Addendum, actually, I read it very clearly in WP:VANDNOT: "Uploading or using material on Wikipedia in violation of Wikipedia's copyright policies is prohibited, but is not vandalism unless the user does so maliciously or fails to heed warnings." So if a person fails to heed warnings it is vandalism. My mistake here was that I only warned once. --Muhandes (talk) 12:29, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Eh, technically it is vandalism, but the user seems to be trying to improve the Wikipedia - that desire to help is misplaced in this case, as they seem to think that using copyrighted content is actually better. Weird. For most cases, yes, you should report copyvio to AIV - as long as they've been warned sufficiently. m.o.p 12:42, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- OK, he now did it again and the time stamp is after your last warning. Is it vandalism now? --Muhandes (talk) 12:32, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Yeah, if they're outright ignoring warnings. I've blocked for three days. m.o.p 12:40, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
Classmusic
- Oh, I know. But if somebody's lied to my face about using another account - and to other editors working on the article - I'm not about to let them go without a repercussion or two. I'd like Almost-instinct and Voceditnore to look over the article and fix up anything shifty. Also, I'd like Classmusic to respond to my warning, instead of blanking it and ignoring like they have to the above-named editors.
- So, in short, I know that COI doesn't bar editing, but it's enough of a concern that, given the user's recent behaviour, I'll stop them from doing anything until we've figured things out. This isn't too rouge-y, is it? I didn't hear that. Perhaps he is unaware of the sockpuppet investigation findings. Anyhow it seems that DeltaQuad has also blocked the Classmusic account. I left a note on his page about using the unblock template, but re-iterated that he needs to read the COI and Autobiography guidelines and stick to them scrupulously, if he gets unblocked. In the Opera and Classical Music WikiProjects, we get a lot of articles for performers, ensembles, etc. created by their agents and PR people, and often themselves. In my experience, the best I can hope for after one of these tussles is that they'll edit their article according to the guidelines in future. I have yet to find a single one who has ever contributed anything else to Wikipedia. Their only interest in the project is as a PR tool. Having said that, at least it results (after much red-pencilling from other editors) in one new article on a notable subject that we didn't have before and in a small way redresses the pop culture systemic bias here. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 13:40, 5 October 2011 (UTC)]
Danish election
- Never mind, it's been pulled by another admin. All the best, Jenks24 (talk) 11:03, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry about that! I was busy all day and didn't get your message until now. Thanks for letting me know, though! Cheers, m.o.p 19:51, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
3RRHey there! :)
Well WP:CRYSTAL has wined down, however, there's currently a
The Bad Girls Club (season 7). I have notified the two users [32], [33]. The evidence can be found here. They are having an edit-conflict on how the "Duration of cast" should be presented. Since there's no rules regarding anything like that, and it was made up about a year ago, I couldn't warned them to stop their e/c with anything except the 3RR rule. Maybe they need an admin to tell them to stop, so that's why I came to you :) Thanks, Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 01:17, 6 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Temporary page protection requested. Calabe1992 (talk) 01:29, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
File source problem with File:MoPuppetarmy.pngThank you for uploading File:MoPuppetarmy.png. I noticed that the file's description page currently doesn't specify who created the content, so the copyright status is unclear. If you did not create this file yourself, you will need to specify the owner of the copyright. If you obtained it from a website, please add a link to the website from which it was taken, together with a brief restatement of that website's terms of use of its content. However, if the copyright holder is a party unaffiliated from the website's publisher, that copyright should also be acknowledged.
If you have uploaded other files, consider verifying that you have specified sources for those files as well. You can find a list of files you have created in your upload log. Unsourced and untagged images may be deleted one week after they have been tagged per Wikipedia's criteria for speedy deletion, F4. If the image is copyrighted and non-free, the image will be deleted 48 hours after 11:44, 11 May 2011 (UTC) per speedy deletion criterion F7. If the file is already gone, you can still make a request for undeletion and ask for a chance to fix the problem. You may wish to read the Wikipedia's image use policy. If you have any questions or are in need of assistance please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. Magog the Ogre (talk) 11:44, 11 May 2011 (UTC)
The Deputy
- Thanks for your reply. My concern was not that Jayjg indicated he would rewrite and did not do so, but that he had agreed to allow more of the disputed section in the article rather than a dismissive sentence or two, but when editors began to delete the entire section based on frivolous reasons, he supported it. It appears now that we have, or are in the process of reaching a resolution. The section is now in the article, reduced substantially to account of Jayjg's concers about undue weight. Mamalujo (talk) 18:40, 27 May 2011 (UTC)
Carla Rushing page deletion
Any further discussion of Sarah Palin will result in a warning, and then a temporary block. Thank you!Hmmm, that might be just a tad excessive. We don't want to suppress all discussion, because that's when the pressure has nowhere to go, and people will go and meatball:ExpandScope.
Since scope is already expanded to international media, forcing scope to expand further might be a bit of a Bad Idea (tm). I recommend Not Going There.
If we're really intent on keeping discussions off of WP, we can always create a wikinews article, and link to the "discuss this article" page.
However, at the moment, people seem to be keeping it down to a dull roar anyway.
--Kim Bruning (talk) 22:44, 6 June 2011 (UTC)
- I think you caught my side point, but I'd like to stress the part I'm trying to tell you to watch out for!
- Long term empirical experience shows that attempts to curtail discussion on wikipedia will not slow down the internet discussion elsewhere (or even on wikipedia). Instead, that's exactly what will feed it more and more steam. So Don't Do That.
- Experience shows that the following approaches work:
- Try to centralize all (spurious) discussion in one place
- keep it as focused on encyclopedic work as possible.
- Treat the new users like new users. They don't know our rules yet. Teach them!
- The foundation would like to see us be more welcoming towards new users. That's a good idea! Let's do that.
- --Kim Bruning (talk) 00:26, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
- And... it went to AN/I (see below) --Kim Bruning (talk) 01:33, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
Edit Notice on Paul RevereYou seem to be asserting some admin right to quench discussion on the talk page by blocking and/or warning with the editnotice that I don't think we have, by policy. IAR doesn't cover stomping on people, no matter how annoying a particular conversation is.
Kelly started a
WP:ANI discussion on this.
Followups probably best on ANI as I am sure others will want to comment. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 01:15, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
- On review - I'm going to blank the edit notice now. If an ANI consensus develops to support restoring it then I'll not object at all, but I think it's novel and enough of a stretch that the default should be "no" unless consensus develops otherwise. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 01:19, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
How does a user find a mentor?
Helen Lucy Burke
Talkback
I did what you asked but the IP reverted it again. PTJoshua (talk) 21:09, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
- You're removing everything I say. Please don't do this. It isn't helpful. --86.45.75.42 (talk) 21:19, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
- I'll talk to them. Sit tight for a second. m.o.p 21:10, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
RE: Deletion of 48gogreen page :ApalejaHello,
Thank you for quick response. I appreciate your reason. but if you do some research you'll find more then 4 or 5 substantial mentions in local or international media - in a newspaper, on a notable website, etc. - to put forward this article.
There is a link on official website of company. http://www.48gogreen.com/static/web
Looking forward for your response. thank you in advance to undelete article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Apaleja (talk • contribs) 08:03, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
Here are some articles from International Press (you can use Google translator-if you use chrome it'll provide option immediately):
http://www.regione.emilia-romagna.it/wcm/cinema/sezioni_primopiano/PrimoPiano/Gadoev.htm
http://domani.arcoiris.tv/girano-un-corto-in-48-ore-e-arrivano-dritti-a-cannes/
http://www.close-up.it/spip.php?article6724
http://www.flashvideo.it/news/9/2578/
http://www.radioemiliaromagna.it/cultura/cinema/videomaker_bolognesi_cannes_corto_ecologico.aspx
Also if YOU HAD READ careful our site you should have see the Press link (those are press links not blogs) with all these web press: http://www.48gogreen.com/static/web
Thank you — Preceding unsigned comment added by Apaleja (talk • contribs) 08:22, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
Final warning On Edit Warring of Efik language disputeIf My Reporting a false article is the reason you want to block me. Then Go ahead and BLOCK me.- I can be Block because I don't care to be part of a web/Encyclopedia of Lies! Although I have contributed anonymously to wikipedia since 2008, I only just signed on a few weeks ago to report an error that I thought was made. But you and your other BIASED administrators have refused to fix this error, instead you're all threatening to block me.
- : According to Wikipedia A false statement/article is removed immediatley it is realized. Yet as am reporting it you all are threatening me for causing disruption.
- You all are saying that I called I called Kwami Slow, Dumb etc. Yet Kwami used the words Ignorance first.
"As for Ukwa, your ignorance is not evidence of anything".
- What is the meaning of IGNORANCE? S/He also said;
"But we cannot have the same article under two names, nor an article on Ibibio-Efik that does not include Ibibio, nor an article on Efik that does not include Efik. A little common sense would be helpful."
- What is meaning of Common sense? Or because Kwami put it very nicely, and mine wasn't? Also I wasn't blanking the Efik page, since I just signed on it takes me a long while to write up an article. According to the statements above, Kwami said I could develop articles on Efik and Ibibio, that is what I was doing when you or your other BIASED administrators returned the articles back to the re-direct.
- : Since wikipedia says a false statement is fixed immediately it is reported, I explained out the mistakes, but Kwami kept insisting that me a native who speaks these languages was wrong and asked for sources. I provided the sources and Kwami Called A brilliant Historian who is a Million times more knowledgable than Kwami on the language;
"utterly ignorant AND not some random idiot who posted a web page".
- Yet you and your other Biased colleges are claiming that am the one attacking Kwami and causing a disruption.
- : Am done with Wikipedia, am going to be taking this issues to the Founder/head by email, once the Ibibio union are involved it might become a legal matter if Wikipedia still continues to portray this misleading information.
I will take this matter to the heads by Email first because they might not be aware of what you all supposed administrators are doing to their image. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ibibiogrl (talk • contribs) 21:41, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
Hi Mops,
Pls read my comments on the ANI page. I think Ibibiogrl means well, she just needs some guidance, and she's not willing to take it from me. — kwami (talk) 22:17, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
- Obviously we would like to have contributors from that part of the world, but Ibibiogrl's record here is so unpromising that I think we need good assurances that something will change in the future. (I would welcome any evidence that Ibibiogrl means well. It is hard to improve the encyclopedia when you have no interest in or respect for its policies. Read her statement above if you are uncertain about that). Mentorship has value only for someone who understands that something has gone wrong and would be willing to work with a mentor. EdJohnston (talk) 22:46, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
- I agree with Ed in this case - I have no grudge against Ibibiogrl, but the editor's attitude, despite multiple pleas for otherwise, remained combative and even insulting at points. If there's a serious expression of guilt and the editor decides they'd like to walk a different path, I'd be happy to help. However, as it is now, I believe the block should stand. m.o.p 22:52, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
- I agree that it would require some indication that she wants help. Just my 2¢ as the person she's most upset with. — kwami (talk) 23:05, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
- For the record, your input is highly appreciated, and very admirable; as the editor in conflict with her, I respect your neutrality and helpfulness. As for Ibibiogrl, we'll see where that goes. Cheers! m.o.p 00:59, 17 June 2011 (UTC)
Can you adopt me i want a new adopter.
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Mr. Pit (2nd nomination)
This isn't personalI belive the AFD on Campaign for "santorum" neologism was closed way to early and am contesting your close.
An editor has asked for a deletion review of Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2011 June 21. Because you closed the deletion discussion for this page, speedily deleted it, or otherwise were interested in the page, you might want to participate in the deletion review. KoshVorlon' Naluboutes Aeria Gloris 12:17, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
James Ball
Thank you for your concern. But I will not be blocked - _I am adding_ wikipedia to adblock. I also feel regret for having donated to the site before, but this will not happen again. Demonuminon (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 23:25, 23 June 2011 (UTC).
Thomas James BallWhy the hell did you delete his page?
Does his suffering mean nothing to you?
Heartless bitch. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.57.206.141 (talk • contribs)
Hey, Master of Puppets, OBVIOUSLY there is a public interested in keeping this article. Restore your deletion. Look at the massive flood of comments regarding your deletion here: http://www.<linkremoved>.com/2011/06/24/the-organized-silencing-of-a-man-publicly-burned-to-death/ and here http://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/i81rw/the_organized_silencing_of_a_man_publicly_burned/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Romerom (talk • contribs) 20:05, 24 June 2011 (UTC)
- Ball HIT A FOUR-YEAR-OLD CHILD, refused to pay child support, called for insurrection, demanded terrorism and violence as a solution, ultimately killed himself (leaving his children without a father) and damaged public property in the process. Even after all that, his incoherent message has mostly been ignored except by the less discriminating people claiming to speak for "men's rights" who haven't bothered to look into the details of his case. (If you really want to damage your cause, adopt a grown man who hits his own four-year-old child and flakes out on his child support as your poster boy.) --Orange Mike | Talk 20:26, 24 June 2011 (UTC) (proud father who has never hit his child in his lifetime)
Hey, "proud father who never hit his child in his lifetime", not everybody is against disciplining their children by spanking. He said his daughter was licking his hand, and he had told her repeatedly to stop. She didn't, and he smacked her. He didn't punch her, or send her to the hospital, or cause any serious injury. Just enough to have his wife baited into calling the police on him by child protective services. As for child support, he paid his child support until the point where he wasn't able to afford it due to an employment issue. Is that such a crazy thing to have happen? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.211.155.1 (talk) 04:28, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
- Again, while I do sympathize with the family and supporters, I am not taking sides, nor do I have any bias in this situation. I am not a feminist, nor am I a misogynist - I am fair and neutral towards all people, whether they be abusive fathers or abused fathers.
- This deletion was enforced solely in keeping with Wikipedia's long-established policies. Mr. Ball's death, while indeed tragic, was not reported throughout the reliable media enough to show his notability.
- I hope this makes sense to all those saddened by Mr. Ball's passing. Cheers, m.o.p 21:04, 24 June 2011 (UTC)
- I understand that you do not think that Mr. Ball's death is something that qualifies as an event and thus deleted said article. I disagree but I do see the merits of your argument. However, you claim to be unbiased in this debate and yet for someone who judges on the letter of the law you break the law and close debate 2.5 days before final judgment is to be rendered. If you have no corner then I ask why make this article a special case that it must be quelled , by your own admission, 2.5 days before any other articles found in similar circumstances are voted upon. I petition you to reinstate and allow the normal course of the discussion continue for the 2.5 days, allow the full opportunity for the pro side to make their case then recluse yourself from the final judgment. This is the only way to ensure transparency so that your claim of neutrality can be believed. CaffOMHW (talk) 03:28, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
- Ahead of things, let me tell you that I appreciate the civility.
- Wikipedia's policies aren't law - they're guidelines. As an administrator, it's my job to apply policy in a way that is completely devoid of bias and benefits the encyclopedia as a whole.
- On a side note, the deletion nomination was closed 1.5 days before the normal time. The page had a whole work week to be saved, rewritten or reworked; however, due to the lack of outside sourcing that carried reliability, there was nothing to keep that wasn't editorialized or unencyclopedic. I would also like to point out that almost every account that voiced their opinion in the 'keep' spectrum had either only edited that page or had edited very little aside from the page. Meanwhile, the deletion argument was put forward by experienced users.
- Though I understand that some people take offense to my early closure, I assure them that one extra day would not have yielded success, and that I took many factors into consideration before closing the discussion.
- Again, thank you for the civility, but I won't be overturning judgment or recreating a deletion discussion at this date. m.o.p 08:17, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
ITNthx for the 2 quick updates of my nom ;)
but also can you see the bolivia one. its got support and very nearly out of the news. we could tack it nearer the border.Lihaas (talk) 22:26, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
Ball closure.
Thank God you are an ambassador for WP, and against censorship, MoP. When Wikipedia fails, and it eventually will, it will largely be because most people don't like to be gamed and would rather not read well cultivated information that is maintained by dishonest brokers who hide behind rules that are never applied in an even-handed manner. The idea that a story is not relevant merely because it is not yet encyclopedic is ridiculous when one sees all the articles which linger on for months or years in the same state. The idea that a story is not relevant because the motivations/justifications of the user are suspect would be grounds for eliminating half the biographical articles in WP. It smacks of an agenda. The appearance of impropriety is as bad as actual impropriety.173.78.20.96 (talk) 04:51, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
- I appreciate the feedback.
- I do my best to maintain an equal, proportionate response in all dealings on Wikipedia; I don't defend things I like, or attack things I dislike, just for the reason of screwing with people. That strikes me as childish. Instead, the most I can do is try to help others understand Wikipedia policies, which are generally mind-bending and hard to grasp (for example, most people ask, "What's the reasoning a war hero isn't considered notable when Donkey Kong is?").
- Maybe one day the policies will change. I mean, most of these were written five, six year ago - the world's changing, and I expect they will with time. But, for now, the guidelines handle what comes in.
- Again, thanks for the input. I appreciate not being personally attacked - it makes it easier to reply. Cheers, m.o.p 05:08, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Natami (2nd nomination)
- The close was thoroughly thought-out, so there's not much ground for me to explore that I haven't already. If you're set on going to DRV, there's nothing I can say which will change your mind, and it's your right to ask for a review. However, current consensus sits at delete (unless the 'keep' side is hiding an ace-in-the-hole reliable source or something). Cheers, m.o.p 04:55, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- So, what about the reliable sources we already brought up in the AfD such as this interview in Amiga Future or this news article from nr2.ru? We've already established that Amiga Future isn't sponsored by a hardware company as one !voter there falsely claimed. On a related note, did you discount the !votes from individuals making misleading statements or those claiming there were "no independent reliable sources"? (I could tell you how that !voter happened to show up there, but he isn't going to like it.) I could also link to forum posts by another delete !voter who showed up there who was very much into a "delete at any cost" mode because he doesn't like "amiga clones". --Tothwolf (talk) 05:11, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- Those sources were there before the previous close, and I, like the previous administrator, do not think they're strong enough.
- I've already covered what kind of rationale was discounted and what wasn't.
- As for your last statement about other editors - I'm not quite sure what your point is, but I don't think it's relevant. As I said, I've discounted any rationale that does not apply policy.
- Cheers, m.o.p 05:33, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- Uh, no...nr2.ru was only brought up in the second AfD. Strong enough is also an argument to be made in a !vote, not a closing statement. --Tothwolf (talk) 05:56, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- My apologies, the Russian source was indeed added after the first AfD. Still too shaky for a stand-alone article, though. Cheers, m.o.p 13:42, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- To follow up on my earlier comment, while I don't really want to get into an "X did this because of Y" sort of thing with regards to this AfD, there were a number of delete !voters who showed up there for personal reasons/vendettas/bias and/or who made false statements about sources. Despite the template at the top of the AfD, the second AfD also didn't suffer from the forum canvassing that the first did. One of the delete !voters actually came by way of the forum and first AfD and was trolling because of his personal dislike of Amiga clones. --Tothwolf (talk) 15:33, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
If they have valid, policy-based rationale, their personal motivation doesn't matter, solely for the reason that an encyclopedia based on liking or disliking things would crumble instantly. I'm sure some of the deletion crew could just-as-easily blame keep voters for being enthusiasts and fans of Natami - but that's not important. As a result, making allegations of personal bias is unnecessary. The help is appreciated, but there's nothing I can do with the information. m.o.p 15:39, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- It matters when someone makes false statements and tries to hide what they are doing behind policy. As for keeps, quite a number appear to be from well established editors who don't appear to be all that interested in Amiga topics. As for myself, I wasn't even aware of NatAmi until the first AfD and didn't even !vote in the first AfD since I thought it was pretty obvious it was headed for a no-consensus close. --Tothwolf (talk) 15:58, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- Again, if their rationale is grounded in policy, their motivation does not matter, simply because it's impossible to discern someone's intent through text, and because the second someone accuses another of favoritism/malicious intent the entire argument turns into a bunch of people shouting, "You're lying." That's why there's nothing I can do with your information in this case. Cheers, m.o.p 16:02, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- Apologies to you, M.O.P., for addressing another editor on your talk page, but I just wanted to jump in this conversation. Tothwolf, with no prejudice against you at all I strongly suggest you take this in perspective. There have been two AFDs and an ANI report over this article. The way you treated me on my talk page threatening DRV because I was a new administrator was, as I feel it, borderline harassing. That you canvassed two other administrators to talk to me was also a below the belt move. In good faith, I relisted the debate and it has closed again as delete. I strongly suggest taking the advice at WP:DGAF into account here and let the issue go. I don't think there will be a problem recreating this article, even pulling the old content back from the deletion log, when the subject has better sources in a broader community. I hold no ill feeling toward you, this is purely honest advice.--v/r - TP 16:46, 27 June 2011 (UTC)]
- TParis, while you are correct in that this talk page is not the place for this, because you brought this up here and you seem to value honest feedback, I'll address this here.
In no way did I ever threaten you with DRV, let alone because you were a new administrator (discussion in question). I did however upon noticing that you had passed RFA only days earlier decide it best not to press you further in public and instead sent you this short email: "Sigh. I just noticed you just finished your RFA. The Natami AfD was a bad AfD to pick to close right out of the gate. It is likely to end up at DRV and given the magazine I mentioned, overturned. I really wish you would reconsider your close. You might have noticed I didn't even !vote in the AfD itself, however I did point out a number of things and took a couple of people to task for making false or misleading statements." That is the only email I sent you about the matter and not once did I ever threaten you with DRV. Please get your facts correct before making statements such as this because such mistakes can have a negative effect on others.
After you replied expressing your disagreement over the sources (and implied that I might be biased because I sometimes contribute to computing-related articles) I asked a number of other administrators (way more than two, actually) what they thought of the AfD's close because I wanted unbiased feedback to see if I was somehow totally off-track before I initiated a DRV. The feedback I got was fairly unanimous in that the close was problematic. Before I had a chance to draft a DRV however, you reverted your own close and relisted the AfD from scratch with a new listing. In no way did I ever "canvass" anyone to "talk to you" and if others did contact you directly, they did so at their own discretion and for their own reasons.
There indeed have been two AfDs, the first of which you closed (although one could also argue that the second was merely a relist of the first). The AN/I "discussion" you also mentioned wasn't really over this article or the first AfD, it was an attempt by someone to game AN/I when they were unable to bully me on their talk page. Please be more careful making these sort of blanket statements in the future because as I mentioned above such statements can cause problems for others. --Tothwolf (talk) 17:38, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- You're email was exactly like your reply here. You like to make threats without actually making them: "such statements can cause problems". There is very little way your email cannot be interpreted as anything other than a threat of DRV because I am a new administrator. This is all I'll say on M.O.P.'s talk page as I came here to offer honest advice and you don't seem interested in it. If you'd like to discuss further with me, you know where to find my talk page.--v/r - TP 17:51, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- TParis, in no way did I ever make an implied threat. While I may be a little blunt and abrasive at times (or maybe I'm just an assume good faith in that you simply misremembered the facts I outlined above when you made this statement here. It is easy to forget a few details here or there and not everyone maintains detailed notes for this sort of stuff (I do, for a number of reasons, although I didn't always).
As far as honest advice goes, this is a two-way street and I gave you my opinion as well. If you choose to ignore and discount it, so be it, but I'd suggest you be much more careful in the future and get your facts correct before you make the sort of statement you made above. Such statements can and do cause problems for other editors. Who knows, it may just be that you've not been around long enough yet to have witnessed people blocked or punished in some way because someone else didn't have their facts together. (If you do decide you want to continue this discussion, perhaps we should take this elsewhere.) --Tothwolf (talk) 18:14, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
]
Heaton Park Hebrew Congregation (2nd nomination)
Natami
Thought you might want to know
- (talk page stalker) That's just the same little ideological website which has been pushing for the "Martyrdom of St. Thomas Ball" attention since day one; no actual new coverage. --Orange Mike | Talk 14:34, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
- I guess I should also mention that the way I found it, was that someone tried submitting it to Fark.com last night. The admins did not greenlight it, so that particular submission/thread did not go to the main Fark page, appearing only to those with Totalfark accounts. The submission said something like "Wikipedia deletes burning man" (I'm not at a computer with TF access so I might not have that exactly right). It might, theoretically, based on the submission, be considered some sort of off-site canvassing (it was submitted with the asinine tag). For what its worth, the thread went uncommented, so I don't think that particular attempt garnered any support. I just wanted to drop a line in case that this was just the first drop of a large storm. If I see anything else, I'll drop a line here. Umbralcorax (talk) 15:58, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
Wiki ad
4chan raid
Thomas James Bell, new information
- (reliable sources. --Orange Mike | Talk 13:33, 30 June 2011 (UTC)]
Happy Birthday
![](//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3d/Nuvola_apps_cookie.svg/50px-Nuvola_apps_cookie.svg.png)
Just a happy Birthday message to you, Master of Puppets, from the Wikipedia Birthday Committee! Have a great day!
Monterey Bay (talk) 02:00, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
User:BillyMoses
Natami
AFD
- Your input is appreciated, though there's nothing I can do with it but take a note. If you'd like, you can weigh in at the next AfD(s), when/if they arise. Cheers, m.o.p 19:42, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
Dr Myko San – Health from Mushrooms
- I'd be happy to help! However, I'm currently away from a computer (typing this on my phone), so I'll have to check in on the 11th of July. Does that sound okay? m.o.p 15:40, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
- wp:NODEADLINE :-) LeadSongDog come howl! 15:48, 7 July 2011 (UTC)]
From a former Wikipedian
-71.234.90.0 (talk) 04:50, 8 July 2011 (UTC)
- Hey, thanks so much! I'm not sure who you are, but I really appreciate the sentiment. Hope all is well! m.o.p 20:49, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
Deletion review for Thomas James Ball
DRV comment
DRV
Could you please overturn the deletion of these files per File:Signature of Amitabh Bachchan.svg and File:Signature of Zakir Hussain.svg:
- File:Signature of Vishwanathan Anand.svg
- File:Signature of Vijay Mallya.svg
- File:Signature of Venkaiah Naidu.svg
- File:Signature of Sudeep Bandhopadhyay.svg
- File:Signature of Sonia Gandhi.svg
- File:Signature of Somnath Chatterjee.svg
- File:Signature of Ratan Tata.svg
- File:Signature of Kumar Mangalam Birla.svg
- File:Signature of Rajeev Shukla.svg
- File:Signature of Raj Babbar.svg
- File:Signature of Rahul Gandhi.svg
- File:Signature of Priyanka Vadra.svg
- File:Signature of P. T. Usha.svg
- File:Signature of Narendra Modi.svg
- File:Signature of Nandan Nilekani.svg
- File:Signature of Manish Tewari.svg
- File:Signature of Leander Paes.svg
- File:Signature of Lata Mangeshkar.svg
- File:Signature of Kumar Mangalam Birla.svg
- File:Signature of Karia Munda.svg
- File:Signature of Kapil Sibal.svg
- File:Signature of Kamal Nath.svg
- File:Signature of K. Kamraj.svg
- File:Signature of Jaya Bachchan.svg
- File:Signature of Gautam Gambhir.svg
- File:Signature of Brinda Karat.svg
- File:Signature of Bharatsinh Solanki.svg
- File:Signature of Bhairon Singh Shekhawat.svg
- File:Signature of B. K. Birla.svg
- File:Signature of Azim Premji.svg
- File:Signature of Arun Jaitely.svg
- File:Signature of Aishwarya Rai Bachchan.svg
- File:Signature of Abhishek Manu Singhvi.svg
- File:Signature of Abhishek Bachchan.svg
- File:Signature of Sting.svg
- File:Signature of Br. L. D. Lobo.svg
- File:Signature of VJ Rannvijay Singh Singha.svg
Diligent07Appears to be less than new. See User talk:Raoulduke25 where he states that this is a deliberate series of edits.
- Can you please help defend our collective effort of including the obscene middle-finger incident in the Cheney Mason article? It should be maintained in the article for public interest, etc. Please see the Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard#Cheney Mason discussion page and include your thoughts in favor of having the content remain in the interests of the public, etc
[8], [9] and even imputation that an editor has a connection with the person [10]. He has been on since April, and started off as being experienced on WP IMHO. Kindly keep an eye out please. Especially for any sign of a real "collective effort"? Such as [11]? Cheers. Collect (talk) 11:36, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
A cookie for you!
Keep up the good work defending the "Wiki" against genre warriors. Thanks for the help! talk) 17:31, 13 July 2011 (UTC)]
Hello. You have a new message at Lionelt's talk page.
Semi protection
OK, this thing with the militant atheism page is impossibleThese guys are incredible... I could dig up diffs to show you how they revert and wikilawyer even the SMALLEST attempt to move the article closer to NPOV. But that would take a long time for you to read. How about I show you this instead:
These guys are utterly without scruples. Who in their right mind would remove the NPOV dispute tag when heated arguments have been raging for weeks and NO moves whatsoever have been made to fix the article? Oh right, that would be someone in their right mind who is running a propaganda platform.
Anyway... I wanted to ask your advice on what to do. These guys are impossible to work with. Most of the other editors have given up and refuse to put this page on their watchlist. So what to do then? Request formal mediation? Articles for deletion? Something else?
Me and the other editors would like to see the page replaced with a disambiguation page... since literally ALL the content has already been covered (better) in Criticism of atheism, State atheism and New Atheism.
Obhave (talk) 13:21, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
- Hello User:Master of Puppets. I noticed this conversation and thought I might add that an NPOV policy. Obhave (talk) 13:11, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
- One more thing, m.o.p... my opponents are currently twisting your words to make it look as if you were scolding user:Mann_jess all along. Obhave (talk) 14:42, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
]
User:Jasper Deng page protection
- No worries! m.o.p 19:35, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
Is there a procedure for brutal uncollaborated editing with a destructive intent?I noticed that you recently had problems with proposed brutal editing by Peter S Strempel. Although he has been more sensible on your project in the end (possibly because of your administrator status?) he has not been so with regard to the astrology project pages to which he made a similar 'razor-promise'. Could you please see this Afd request which is one of three he made for major 'history of astrology' articles within the last hour, with a promise on another important page that any comment which is not refrences within 7 days will be removed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Babylonian_astrology
Is there anything that can be done about this officially to stop him wreaking havoc with content whilst he knows that the small group of editors providing content on these pages are already stretched to the limit trying to keep up with what needs to be done? I don't understand what drives some people to want to edit WP like this, but I think it is entriely the result of his ego-stress that when he proposed an edit for a passage, no one favoured it. Hope you can help or advise Zac Δ talk 01:15, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks! assume good faith; I believe that Peter is simply trying to help improve Wikipedia. While his methods may be lacking in some areas, he has displayed a pretty decent grasp on the policies he's trying to enforce.
- However, I agree that he shouldn't be making any changes if they're not discussed with the community first. Do you mind pulling up a few diffs of where he went against consensus? I'll approach him with your concern then. Thanks, m.o.p 03:57, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
- Actually there hasn't been any significant content dispute with Peter. He proposed a change to a section edit which wasn't a very good proposition and a few editors commented but without rancur, and I added a new section post immediately afterwards to point out the proiposed change would contradict with how the definition was given correctly at a later point in the article, outlining how I understood WP policy expected the main astrology article to pull its own content together, along with its summarised content from its daughter pages. Peter never responded to this but other editors started working in that direction immediately. Then, without further discussion or comment, Peter came back four days later to announce an intention to take his 'word razor' to all unreferenced assertions on the main astrology page, its sub-pages, and the portal page itself, to ensure his perceived disagreement was not circumvented in pages he viewed as content forks (I'm still not sure what he means by that). My response to that can be seen - a perfectly reasonable request for him to do what he felt was most productive, but consider that citation-tagging was the way to go. I also placed comments on his talk-page, which you can read if you are interested. That he erupted into a frenzy of AfD requests last night says something, I think, about his unwillingness to discuss and engage in other views. Most of his posts appear as new section declarations that don't appear to have considered the responses other editors give him.
- I've summarised this in the ANI request Dougweller started. The deletion requests were a step too far IMO, and I'm concerned that Peter would spring to such drastic measures in reaction to what he perceives to be me not allowing him to do what he wants to do. I'll be away for a few days so I'm tying up my WP activity now. That underlines my concern that he intends to take such drastic action with only one week's notice of intent. Thanks for looking into this. It would be good if something could be proposed to stop huge problems before they occur. 10:35, 22 July 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zachariel (talk • contribs
)
- One last request. I have just noticed that a related complaint, which is quite serious but has been sidetracked (deliberatly IMO) by Peter's suggestions that I have prevented him from doing what he wants, has been collapsed as "going nowehere" by an unsympathetic editor.
- "Its ben here several days and no admin has even sniffed at a block or ban - clearly you're not going to get admin action. So this should got to WP:DR or WP:RFCU if you want to take it further. I've boldly collapsed this, though I won't be surprised if someone uncollapses it"
- If you can find the time could you at least take a look at that related problem, and consider uncollapsing it, because the issues are serious and have gone beyond the point where Dispute resolution are appropriate. I will be away and have nothing more to add, but the problems identified still remain. Zac Δ talk 10:58, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
What to do?
- I've started a threat at ANI. Those AfDs are purely pointy and if no one objects I'll close them. talk) 06:11, 22 July 2011 (UTC)]
- Replied there. m.o.p 08:20, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
Talk Page on Militant Atheism - Introduction Section
- The update is appreciated, thanks very much. I've been dealing with life for the past two weeks, but I'll be back to close that discussion tonight or tomorrow. Thanks again, m.o.p 22:03, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
- Just bringing this up again, given the current state of this section. I believe the discussion will be archived automatically if not closed. I'm sorry if I sound pushy with you having a lot on your plate of late. If you would prefer, I could alert User:Fastily instead. Turnsalso (talk) 16:55, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
ITN
- I knew that tab I closed had unfinished business on it... thanks. 2008 University of Central Arkansas shootings is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.
The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2008 University of Central Arkansas shootings(2nd nomination) until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on good quality evidence, and our policies and guidelines.
Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article.
talk 14:00, 1 September 2011 (UTC)]
Hey
- Done! Both your userpage and the transcluded page are protected. Cheers, « ₣M₣ » 04:09, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Restored. m.o.p 05:21, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
]
User talk:Joshua the Independent
- My mistake - my block script auto-filled the edit summary. The block was issued due to the user's newfound will to disrupt Wikipedia intentionally. Their previous contributions are welcome, but this behaviour necessitates administrative action. m.o.p 21:52, 13 September 2011 (UTC)
Say hi to your imaginary girlfriend for me
- Well, I do love getting hate mail. Thanks for the laugh! Cheers, m.o.p 05:17, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
...further to the above lovely note, I weighed in on Calabe's talk page - there appears to be more confusion here than at first glance. bou·le·var·dier (talk) 05:19, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
Sorry to drop by again, but Silentsizzlingsausage (talk · contribs) would appear to be a duck. bou·le·var·dier (talk) 05:31, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
- No, it's not an issue! Thanks for the note, blocked. Cheers, WP:SPI. Thanks again, m.o.p 06:13, 14 September 2011 (UTC)]
I have to admit ...
- See the above section. The link is apparently a very subtle spam link that Calabe is removing, and socks are springing up to revert him. Swarm u / t 10:20, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
Moderation
- Alright, I'll make my way back. Thanks for letting me know! m.o.p 05:18, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
User:12.139.96.228
- To be honest, this case is perplexing. Half of this user's edits are constructive (mostly sourced), the other half aren't sourced - and the user won't reply to anybody. I'm also too busy to go through every edit and confirm whether or not it's good. I forgot about this for a while - I'll think about it tonight and figure something out for tomorrow. Thanks for reminding me! m.o.p 05:18, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
Whoops
- Whoops! Must not have been looking when I ran my block script. Thanks for letting me know, I've reblocked them for a far shorter (technically, an infinitely shorter) time. Cheers, m.o.p 22:58, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
Ashleyleggat404
- You're fully right in that the blanking policy covers indefinite blocks. I've removed the user's talk page rights as a result. Thanks again! m.o.p 00:28, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkback
Moderation
- If you look into this please consider whether Anupam's actions on the talk page and the entry itself are violations of WP:OWN. He's been driving off those he disagrees with by bludgening them to death with argument and heavily policing the entry claiming that there is a consensus written in stone despite many dissenting voices. Others have taken to simply calling him "the article's owner." I have had enough of this behavior personally and left him a message about it on his talk page. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:52, 20 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Dear User:Master of Puppets, the above user has misrepresented the occurrences at the article. I started another Introduction discussion at the article's talk page but User:Griswaldo has chosen to edit war over a second NPOV tag, despite the fact that one already exists in the article. He has done so despite the fact that the Introduction is being discussed in a peaceful manner at the talk page, in violation of your injunction: "We've only got consensus on this proposed versions (and loose consensus at that) - please do not attempt to subvert said consensus by making undiscussed changes." I have posted a message on his talk page about this behaviour. Nevertheless, I also do not wish to argue with the user personally and would prefer if you could go back to moderating the discussion between the two parties at the talk page. Thanks for taking the time to read this message. With regards, AnupamTalk 20:58, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- His "injunction?" Adding a neutrality tag to a specific sentence which an editor disputes the neutrality of is hardly "subverting the consensus by making undiscussed changes." Please stop wikilawyering to get your way. There is a growing consensus against your position regarding this article in general as well, despite your aggressive policing of the entry and the talk page. See ]
- I just thought that I would mention that User:Griswaldo, after seeing this message, just now decided to comment in the discussion rather than edit war against consensus further. Thanks for taking the time to read this message. With regards, AnupamTalk 21:51, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- "Edit war against consensus further?" My comment there has nothing to do with your message here. I've made three total edits to this entry ever. One was a copy edit in June, another was reverting an IP vandal, and the third was the revert of your Ownership edit. Please do not insinuate that I'm a edit warrior on this page. It is disingenuous.Griswaldo (talk) 22:08, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Thank you all for approaching me with your concerns.
- Obviously, I do not support Anupam - this is because I'm remaining a neutral third party, and, therefore, can't take sides. However, Griswaldo: please keep in mind that I did ask for all discussion to take place on the talk page. Why not just add your complaints to the talk page? It would have been much easier to discuss.
- I do agree that adding a NPOV tag, while slightly redundant, isn't horrible, but your intent seems to have been to stir discussion on that particular section, discussion that would be much more appropriate on the talk page.
- As for your and Snalwibma's concerns of Anupam trying to 'own' the article, I'm curious as to what you two mean; what 'delusions'?
- Also, Griswaldo, I don't think Anupam meant to insinuate you are an edit warrior (though this is just my take) - rather, they wanted to add the note that you've weighed in on discussion. m.o.p 22:10, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- your intent seems to have been to stir discussion on that particular section - No that's incorrect. I didn't add this tag, I simply reverted Anupam's attempt to own the page when he removed it. I agreed with JimWae's addition of the tag and found Anupam's removal to be unwarranted and a display of ownership.Griswaldo (talk) 22:16, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Note that, for all intents and purposes, reverting somebody is adding whatever is included in your edit, regardless of who put it there first. You revert a removal, you're agreeing with the edition you're reverting to - simple.
- And, if you agreed with JimWae, then we go back to what I was saying earlier - say so on the talk page. Two of you agree? Great! That's closer to consensus. But it means nothing if you express your support by reverting removals.
- Again, as I've asked multiple times, please stop saying that Anupam is owning anything without giving me evidence of it first. m.o.p 22:22, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Dear User:Master of Puppets, thank you for your reply to all of us. The reason User:Snalwibma stated that I was attempting to "own" the article was because I reverted an undiscussed removal from the article, which not only myself, but two other users objected to. In fact, two anonymous IP Addresses also reverted User:Snalwibma. I was open to compromise on the issue and stated that I would accept User:Turnsalso's compromise on the issue. I kindly request you to look at that discussion yourself and get an honest reading of it. Also, the only reason I removed the second NPOV tag was because there was already one present, which I did not remove. I only reverted the addition of a second NPOV tag once and even explained myself on the talk page. When I went to the talk page, I found rude accusations and an anti-collaborative spirit, despite the fact that I have been nothing but polite. I hope this helps. With regards, AnupamTalk 22:25, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry - I know I should not rise to the bait, but I have to object to the comment "The reason User:Snalwibma stated that I was attempting to 'own' the article was because I reverted an undiscussed removal ..." How dare Anupam presume to know what is in my mind! The reason I describe Anupam's attitude to the article as one of ownership is because that is how s/he behaves - "policing" every edit, pronouncing on whether s/he "accepts" or "rejects" it, peremptorily reverting anything s/he does not like, without discussion, presuming to know others' motives, and judging them as fit/unfit to contribute to the article. This has been going on for weeks, if not months. It is impossible to discuss the content of the article, let alone improve the text, because everything is filtered through the approval/disapproval of the article's self-appointed guardian, Anupam. tendentious or disruptive when they bring up certain issues, even when they are clearly in the majority. That is not collaborative. I stopped editing the article heavily because of those issues. I don't have any delusions that my opinion is worth more than anyone else's here, but I would think that the large number of established, experienced editors who are all saying there's a problem, would indicate something. — Jess· Δ♥ 19:45, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
Please reconsider your full protection of Militant atheist
- In case you didn't notice, I asked that people think twice about pointing fingers at each other. If you'd like to start a sockpuppetry investigation, let me know, and we can take that avenue - however, don't accuse other editors of ownership without substance. If you think Anupam is trying to own things, give me something. Diffs, edits, anything. I'll check it out for you, but right now, baseless accusations are not what I'm looking for.
- Also, notice that I protected the article with your edit being the last one. How is that validating the very person you've been reverting?
- The protection will stay until consensus is reached. m.o.p 22:19, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Because protection is what he wants quite clearly. He's stalling conversation and shouting down people on the talk page, where, if you have a look, you'll see he's clearly in the minority. Because of your "injunction" as he calls it, he also claims that no matter how many people agree with a certain change it is illegitimate. I'll be happy to gather some diffs, but my first message to you above was to please look into the situation carefully before acting on it. Did you do that and come to the conclusion that I'm wrong or did you not head that request? Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:29, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Yes, I did heed your request. I don't see any ownership behaviour from Anupam, though, being involved in multiple disputes, I didn't have the time to read every last word on the page, so you're free to provide evidence. However, from what I can see, Anupam's last proposal was supported by the majority - not to count (and I don't mean to imply that I decide where consensus lies by looking at pure numbers), but from looking at pure supports versus opposes, eight people (nine including Anupam) support while four oppose. How does that make Anupam's views a minority? m.o.p 22:37, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- It depends on what view you are talking about. The current RFC on the introduction is something that most people don't even want to engage because most people think this very entry should be split up and integrated into other entries. I reluctantly engaged the RfC just now myself. The last time the more serious question about the entry was asked, several of the new commentators were not around, and there was "no consensus" found because the opposing side was chalk full of SPAs and editors with a view that is outright hostile to atheism (which is a legitimate view to hold, but it is a minority view). Let me find you some diffs.Griswaldo (talk) 22:43, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- User:Griswaldo, that is exactly the issue: you do not want to collaborate with other users on the talk page, which is why you were reluctant to participate in the current RfC. Moreover, there were several SPA's on the side of the opposition as well, including WP:NPOV. In addition, the split was again recently discussed and the specific case to do so was refuted by several editors. As such, there was no consensus for it. I hope this helps. With regards, AnupamTalk 22:52, 20 September 2011 (UTC)]
- No. You are trying to write an article that violates WP:SYNTH because it conflates New Atheism with oppressive communist regimes and their histories of violence. That's hardly NPOV. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:59, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
Hi m.o.p., as someone who occasionally looks at that page (and then washes my hands), I just want to compliment you as having done the right thing in full protecting. By way of unsolicited advice to the involved editors, the best thing they could do is to allow The Wrong Version to sit there a good long time, and devote their energy to other things. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:54, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
]
Yes, please reconsider your full protection of
WP:RS—deserve protection against misinformed reverts. Thanks Geremia (talk) 16:12, 22 September 2011 (UTC)]
Diffs of
- I'm not really sure where the ownership is here; nowhere in our policies is it stated that a user can't promote their RFC on the subject talk page. If it's ongoing and they'd like to move it to the forefront, what's wrong with that? More so, some of your summaries seem inaccurate - in that last diff, you state that Anupam is removing images, yet I only see Anupam adding an image (the peace dove that's at the top of the page). Also, you use repeating examples. m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Well clearly the last diff was wrong. Thanks for the vote of confidence. There are no repeat examples nor inaccurate summaries, just a mistaken copy paste of the second to last diff to the last position as well. I have fixed it. Cheers.
- Using "consensus claims from one RfC to reject changes made to article content
- Same as above. Using the "consensus" bludgeon to get his way. Please note that clearly we ought to edit by consensus, but this consensus is highly disputed, and IMO not there in the first place. The real problem is the way in which Anupam decides to use it like a trump card to remove changes he doesn't like. Ask yourself if all changes post "consensus" have been removed or just the ones Anupam decided he wanted removed.
Master of Puppets do you need more diffs or is this enough?Griswaldo (talk) 23:31, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Well I need more diffs because your "evidence" so far looks like a desperate attempt to incriminate an editor who has been very successful in persuading his colleagues to adopt his proposals. Anupam has presented his proposals, argued the merits and persuaded many editors. Anything you want to tell us about why you're having difficulty doing likewise? – Lionel (talk) 06:02, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- I don't see this is as conclusive evidence, either. And, it should be said - if people are editing against established consensus, then people are free to re-evaluate consensus, but edit-warring against it doesn't make much sense. m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- If not ownership then what is this - [28], [29], [30]? He removes two RfCs started by another editor, and revolving around the question that many of us actually find to be the fundamental question to answer regarding the entry. Then he edit wars to keep these RfCs off the page, claiming again to have some sort of authority stemming from your prior actions. If you aren't willing to do something here I'm going to another administrator and I'm going to ask for your initial "consensus," your strong arm administrating, and your lack of action here to be reviewed as well. Thanks.Griswaldo (talk) 17:08, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Anupam has already apologized for reverting those RfC additions, and we've moved past it. He also didn't claim to have administrative authority, but was waiting for my approval. We've cleared this up, it's not an issue. So no, I'm not going to take any action (as I've said here and on ANI). Now, if you'd like to threaten me and tell me that, since I'm not cooperating with your wills, you'll go to another administrator, that's fine - as I've said, you can seek outside opinions - but remember to keep a cool head, because borderline threats are not appreciated. m.o.p 21:49, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- It was not a threat, "borderline" or otherwise. You are conveniently ignoring a growing number of voices who are all saying the same thing - there is an ownership problem here. The deletion issue has not been "cleared up" as far as I'm concerned. Whenever it is mentioned Anupam insists that he did not "unilaterally" delete the RfCs from the page, which is a blatant distortion, since that is exactly what he did. He continues to act as a policeman at the page, and yes he does continue to cite your authority. Did you bother to read the many diffs I posted above in the second two sections? I will quote three random examples from those I provided for you if you want.
- When he first deleted the two RfCs he wrote: "rv - see discussion with reviewing administrator; approval needed to start another RfC while one is already occurring."
- When he deleted a fact tag that JimWae put into the lede: "rv excessive tagging per talk; tag is already extant in header; do not subvert previous consensus but gain consensus for potential additions per administrative notice"
- When he rejected another recent change to the entry: "accepted edits by User:Jkhwiki; rv removal of longstanding referenced content - see discussion on talk page and gain consensus for action per administrative injunction"
- In talk page comments and in edit summaries he consistently does the same thing. He refers to your authority, either directly or indirectly through your "notice" or your "injunction" as he likes to call it. I never said the claimed to have administrative authority, I said that he's using your authority, by way of your comments, such as the closure of the AfD to bully people. Do you deny that he citing your comments, because if you do then I must have fabricated those quotes. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:32, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
If you say "If you don't do A, then I'm going to go and do B", that's a threat. Anyway, that's not the issue - we've already covered all the issues with the RfC reverting, and Anupam won't do it again. Why keep raising hell over it?
We've already covered everything you bring up. And no, I'm not denying anything. I'm just saying this, and it's very simple: I don't think there has been any blatant ownership here. That's my judgment. If you disagree, again, feel free to raise this with another administrator or on ANI. m.o.p 23:12, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Regarding the new RFC, I still think there has not passed yet too much time since the last discussion about splitting the article. As far as I knew, repeating these sorts of debates (like splitting, deleting, renaming) before a larger amount of time has passed (like 6 months) is usually discouraged. And as others have also argued earlier, even if having multiple RFCs is possible, it's not very useful, and the new RFC seems to discourage further discussion about improving the lead introduction. So preventing multiple RFCs (and also a RFC about an issue debated not too long ago) does not look to me like evidence of bad faith intentions. Cody7777777 (talk) 21:37, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Cody, would you mind linking me to the previous RfC on splitting? m.o.p 21:49, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- The previous attempt to split the article can be found here. Cody7777777 (talk) 21:55, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Response
Yes, it does. Thanks, m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Dear User:Master of Puppets, I just noticed that User:Binksternet started another RfC while a current one is occurring. Is this appropriate? I reverted the addition motioning for one until your response is confirmed. If it is acceptable, then I apologize and will revert my edit. I look forward to your response. With regards, AnupamTalk 15:14, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'll form my reply on ANI. m.o.p 17:12, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- When you do please take into account my comment just above, regarding Anupam's edit warring to remove talk page comments (namely these RfCs) posted by others on the talk page. If you still don't think this is WP:OWN then clearly other administrators are needed here.Griswaldo (talk) 17:15, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Dear User:Griswaldo, how is going to a neutral mediator to address the issue owning the article? I acknowledge that the article is in dispute and as a result, I am asking an administrator for advice in this matter, NOT handling things on my own, as you have done by edit warring. Your WP:OWN allegations have not only been dismissed by this administrator, but by several other users, including, User:Lionelt, User:Cody7777777 and User:NYyankees51. Thanks, AnupamTalk 17:27, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- In reply to Griswaldo: reverting the RfCs was a mistake, but we've cleared that up now. As Anupam has stated at ANI, the intent was not to discourage discussion. If you think my judgment is compromised, you're welcome to seek another administrator's input. m.o.p 21:04, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- And as further evidence of WP:OWN, see this. Anupam adds a comment to everything that anyone else says, as if he/she is the owner of the article and everyone else is a subordinate contributor. This particular instance is pretty benign (although it clutters up the talk page with an unnecessary comment that merely says "I agree"), but I do think that Anupam at least needs to learn how to avoid giving the appearance of thinking he/she owns the article, and to desist from chipping in and saying the same thing over and over again, which almost makes meaningful discussion impossible! SNALWIBMA ( talk - contribs ) 17:31, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- While the input is appreciated, as I've said before, making allegations of ownership without hard evidence isn't going to get us anywhere. Anupam is not stopping others from discussing changes or forming consensus, and that's all that matters - refactoring the talk page or commenting on an issue is not against policy, and I'm not going to tell someone to stop editing because it "looks" like they're doing something wrong. As said above, you're welcome to request another administrator's insight if you wish. m.o.p 21:04, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
COIHi
you've helped me out before, with a conflict of interest problem, so having much more experience than me on wikipedia, I thought I would be bold enough to ask again for help.
Similar problem to last, User_talk:Hobbycraft is editing the HOBBYCRAFT article and making changes that aren't citably right. I think the user name suggest and history suggests a conflict of interest case.
Can you please, speak to them addressing this issue.
Thank you very much for your help.
Markcoulter50 (talk) 22:27, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
- I've blocked that user for username violations. Thanks a lot for letting me know! Keep up the great work, m.o.p 23:00, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkbackcausa sui (talk) 18:47, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Hello. You have a new message at causa sui's talk page. causa sui (talk) 20:54, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Problematic editing on militant atheism
- I hope it's not considered defamatory to repeat the final line: "I merely present the diffs above, and let others draw their own conclusions. Is this a duck? Does it quack? You decide.". Unfortunately, the concerned community no longer has that opportunity. What did you decide on their behalf? Does this duck quack, or not? bobrayner (talk) 15:42, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- It's not your wording, it's the very idea of it. Going to what's allegorically a public place and shouting, "Hey, everybody, this man is a criminal!" is one step below blatantly forming a lynch mob. As I've said, I have no problem with your wording or evidence, just your location of choice. Wikipedia is not, unfortunately, a democracy - letting others draw their conclusions and voice their opinions is not how a sockpuppet investigation works.
- So yes, please don't go restoring any of that section. We're not discussing editors, we're discussing the content they produce. Anything else has a sub-board to deal with it (like WP:SPI).
- Hopefully that clears things up! I'll be happy to answer any more questions should you have them. Cheers, m.o.p 15:48, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Hello User:Bobrayner, I noticed the section you created on the militant atheism talk page. If you do feel the way you do about User:Turnsalso and the anonymous IP Addresses, you can take this up with WP:SPI. Thanks, AnupamTalk 15:52, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
Are you kidding my MoP? Above your write: Going to what's allegorically a public place and shouting, "Hey, everybody, this man is a criminal!" is one step below blatantly forming a lynch mob. AND We're not discussing editors, we're discussing the content they produce. Yet you call this edit by Lionelt "good faith," at WQA? MoP, I would not ask you to agree with me or to like me, but can I please ask you not to insult me with these double standards.Griswaldo (talk) 16:18, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
]
- Griswaldo, I mean no offense when I say this, but I'd appreciate it if you stayed out of discussions which didn't involve you. Also, please don't put words in my mouth. Thanks, m.o.p 16:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I have not put words in your mouth. You said that you would assume good faith about Lionel. If you "assume good faith" it means you assume his edits were in "good faith." If you did not intend that meaning I suggest you reconsider what you wrote. Also, if you want me to "stay out of discussion which don't involve me" then I suggest your first order of business should be to do the same thing yourself. You decided to post at WQA, when there was no mention of you or anything you've done in that thread. Once again, I expect people not to practice double standards. So as long as you cannot show me that you will treat me as you ask to be treated yourself, I will not oblige you. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:21, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Please stop bickering. I'm not quite sure what you're trying to accomplish here. I've already explained what I meant when I said assuming good faith, but I'll explain again: I assumed that Lionelt was not hounding or deliberately haranguing you. I did not say, at any point, that his edit content was good faith, and I've told him not to edit like that again. So please stop accusing me of saying things I haven't said.
- Also, I posted in WQA because, as a mediator in this case and as an administrator, it's my duty to weigh in on administrative noticeboards, especially when the case is an ongoing discussion I've been participating in for three months. It is not your duty to weigh in on discussions on my talk page that don't concern you. I hope the distinction is clear here. m.o.p 20:33, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I think you are confused about something. Content is never good faith. "Editing in good faith" and "good faith edits" refers to the intent of the editor always. It has nothing to do with content. My assumption that you also felt the edits were appropriate comes from the fact that you did not say they weren't appropriate and clearly feel that his intentions were good. If you'd like to set the record straight on that issue you still can. I've asked you twice now to discuss the actual edits that are the focal point of the thread. Also, I moved the thread to ANI, per the suggestion of the editor who marked it "resolved."Griswaldo (talk) 20:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- See Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#User:Lionelt_--_following_my_past_edits_to_drum_up_support_against_me. FYI, I copy pasted the entire discussion because both you and Collect were critical of my initial post and I thought it was the right thing to do to preserve that criticism in the record of the conversation. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:43, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- In reply to your first paragraph: I'm going to give up now, as it seems you're misunderstanding most of what I type, but you're the one who stated that the content was not good faith (as you said, not appropriate), and I agreed - I referred to his intent in replying to you, and said that I assumed good faith in his motives, not his replies. I can't really say that in a clearer way, so my apologies if it's hard to understand. Also, as I've already said, I've left a message for Lionelt about his edits, so clearly I do not feel they're appropriate. m.o.p 20:57, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I, too, find these double standards vexing.
- Which diff is defamatory?
- I had hitherto thought that people on the article talkpage might like to be aware of potential problems with votestacking on the article talkpage (and 3rr evasion, of course). Would it be permitted to add a link to that list of diffs when it's in a different place, or would you consider that defamatory too? bobrayner (talk) 16:23, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- As I said, the information is not defamatory, but the way it's presented is - we have specific processes available to pursue should one feel there are sockpuppets about. However, calling someone out with the intent of informing the community is overstepping your authority and damaging to the accused's character. Also, there's no way a community discussion about whether or not one editor is a sockpuppet can end in anything other than a sockpuppet investigation anyway.
- So, in closing, please don't bring issues like this to the talk page. If you're concerned about votestacking, take it to the appropriate venue - if your concerns are validated, we'll take measures against said puppets. Cheers, m.o.p 16:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I am very disappointed that it's no longer permissible to raise problems with article-editing on the article talkpage. Previous concerns about sockpuppetry were simply ignored; the difference this time is that it's backed by lots of diffs.
- I'm fairly confident that the people concerned have sufficient technical nous to make checkuser draw a blank. And, let's be entirely honest, within minutes of me creating an SPI, an admin of the right persuasion will be getting an email suggesting that an SPI needs their attention. And SPI does not see offsite coordination by a facebook group &c. Finally, any null result at SPI will be used at the article in much the same way as previous administrative decisions have been. So, I do not believe that an SPI will improve either the article, or the encyclopædia as a whole. bobrayner (talk) 17:08, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- If you don't think the pre-existing methods set in place for situations like this are sufficient, you can always raise that concern at the village pump or suggest a policy revision - however, SPI is the venue for these requests, and the only venue. The talk page can not substitute. m.o.p 17:10, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
76.228.226.122Thank you for blocking the anonymous user, who is being counterproductive and rude. (although I think the block should have been one week, but I guess ok at least)
Can you also please try to hide the edit summaries of these edits if possible?
This and
this
Thanks and regards, talk 05:04, 26 September 2011 (UTC)]
- I'll extend the block if this behaviour continues after the block period is over.
- As for the edit summaries, those don't warrant hiding - I apologize for their content, but they don't meet the criteria of what I should remove. It's best just to ignore them for now. Cheers, m.o.p 05:13, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
- Okay, good to know, if I did nothing wrong, no permanent block will be enforced. The IP does not volunteer on WP as an admin and so the disproportionately out of line comments and threats of his should be ignored. --talk 05:19, 26 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Sounds good. We only hide extremely offensive revisions; milder ones stay in the edit history. Thanks again for bringing this to our attention! Cheers, m.o.p 05:31, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
Email
Jasper Deng (talk) 05:29, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
- Reading. talk) 06:00, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Bad Girls Club
- I've blocked Junebea for 2 days for disregarding warnings. m.o.p 20:30, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks for helping :) Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 21:06, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkback
- And again.Griswaldo (talk) 04:24, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
- And again ... but maybe the last. You can settle this question once and for all. See the talk page.Griswaldo (talk) 06:09, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'm sure I'm not alone in wanting to hear your replies to the last responses posed to you at that page. IMO, I don't know why you went down the road you did, but as far as I can tell you're blatantly misrepesenting facts about your own actions when people are brining concerns to you. You might think that since you closed the RfC the matter is settled, but it is not. You're actions have not made my life any more pleasant in the last few days vis-a-vis trying to deal with Anupam's disruption and I think you owe us all answers. So please revisit this thread and deal with the open questions. Thanks.Griswaldo (talk) 02:19, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
- I invite you to stop asking the same question again and again. This would be appreciated. Thanks, m.o.p 02:33, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Block question
- No, I just block obviously bad-faith accounts on sight. Advertising/spam accounts fall under that category. m.o.p 00:37, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Thanks
- Thank you. I've unlocked the article for whatever may come. If I'm needed again, feel free to let me know. Thanks for the kind words again, m.o.p 05:12, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
reminder
- We're still waiting to see if the user understands COI policy (per Ed's question). I'll prod the user and see if they'll answer. talk) 19:20, 30 September 2011 (UTC)]
Nextel logo deleted
- Mmm, good point. What's the link to the logo in question? m.o.p 01:33, 2 October 2011 (UTC)
Support of Sage City SymphonyYou deleted this page before I had a chance to go back in and add the stuff that you wanted to see, including the links within Wikipedia to important composers such as Lou Callabro (who started this orchestra and cites it in his Wikipedia page) and Susan Hurley whose work we premiered (SC is also mentioned in her Wikipedia entry). (Let alone links about the works we have performed.) And we have a web site at www.sagecitysymphony.org, have existed for over 35 yrs and are a significant cultural resource in the Bennington area such that we receive grants from local, statewide and national foundations.
I broke my wrist last weekend and am doing one-handed pecking so it'll take me a few days to get that loaded in. We are going out for a bit now, but I would appreciate your undeleting the page so that I don't have to re-invent the starting part when I go back in tomorrow to add links. Or delete it entirely so that I can start fresh - at this point either would work as long as I can start some serious work on it tomorrow. I am the webmaster by the way, so I do have access to content and more links.
Thank you, Celia Murray — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.228.127.119 (talk) 14:22, 1 October 2011 (UTC)
- It looks like fixed everything up. Best of luck, m.o.p 01:35, 2 October 2011 (UTC)]
Reply on Deterence's talk page
MA
After the beating you took you deserve a cold one--on me! Thanks for being fair and balanced – Lionel (talk) 03:55, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
- Hey, thanks! Glad to help out. :) m.o.p 03:56, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
Deletion of Mau5trap Recordings
--neocharles (talk) 07:33, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Existence does not equal notability - the subject has to be notable to get a Wikipedia page. m.o.p 12:05, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
Questoin re: AIV
- Addendum, actually, I read it very clearly in WP:VANDNOT: "Uploading or using material on Wikipedia in violation of Wikipedia's copyright policies is prohibited, but is not vandalism unless the user does so maliciously or fails to heed warnings." So if a person fails to heed warnings it is vandalism. My mistake here was that I only warned once. --Muhandes (talk) 12:29, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Eh, technically it is vandalism, but the user seems to be trying to improve the Wikipedia - that desire to help is misplaced in this case, as they seem to think that using copyrighted content is actually better. Weird. For most cases, yes, you should report copyvio to AIV - as long as they've been warned sufficiently. m.o.p 12:42, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- OK, he now did it again and the time stamp is after your last warning. Is it vandalism now? --Muhandes (talk) 12:32, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Yeah, if they're outright ignoring warnings. I've blocked for three days. m.o.p 12:40, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
Classmusic
- Oh, I know. But if somebody's lied to my face about using another account - and to other editors working on the article - I'm not about to let them go without a repercussion or two. I'd like Almost-instinct and Voceditnore to look over the article and fix up anything shifty. Also, I'd like Classmusic to respond to my warning, instead of blanking it and ignoring like they have to the above-named editors.
- So, in short, I know that COI doesn't bar editing, but it's enough of a concern that, given the user's recent behaviour, I'll stop them from doing anything until we've figured things out. This isn't too rouge-y, is it? I didn't hear that. Perhaps he is unaware of the sockpuppet investigation findings. Anyhow it seems that DeltaQuad has also blocked the Classmusic account. I left a note on his page about using the unblock template, but re-iterated that he needs to read the COI and Autobiography guidelines and stick to them scrupulously, if he gets unblocked. In the Opera and Classical Music WikiProjects, we get a lot of articles for performers, ensembles, etc. created by their agents and PR people, and often themselves. In my experience, the best I can hope for after one of these tussles is that they'll edit their article according to the guidelines in future. I have yet to find a single one who has ever contributed anything else to Wikipedia. Their only interest in the project is as a PR tool. Having said that, at least it results (after much red-pencilling from other editors) in one new article on a notable subject that we didn't have before and in a small way redresses the pop culture systemic bias here. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 13:40, 5 October 2011 (UTC)]
Danish election
- Never mind, it's been pulled by another admin. All the best, Jenks24 (talk) 11:03, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry about that! I was busy all day and didn't get your message until now. Thanks for letting me know, though! Cheers, m.o.p 19:51, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
3RRHey there! :)
Well WP:CRYSTAL has wined down, however, there's currently a
The Bad Girls Club (season 7). I have notified the two users [32], [33]. The evidence can be found here. They are having an edit-conflict on how the "Duration of cast" should be presented. Since there's no rules regarding anything like that, and it was made up about a year ago, I couldn't warned them to stop their e/c with anything except the 3RR rule. Maybe they need an admin to tell them to stop, so that's why I came to you :) Thanks, Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 01:17, 6 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Temporary page protection requested. Calabe1992 (talk) 01:29, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
The Deputy
- Thanks for your reply. My concern was not that Jayjg indicated he would rewrite and did not do so, but that he had agreed to allow more of the disputed section in the article rather than a dismissive sentence or two, but when editors began to delete the entire section based on frivolous reasons, he supported it. It appears now that we have, or are in the process of reaching a resolution. The section is now in the article, reduced substantially to account of Jayjg's concers about undue weight. Mamalujo (talk) 18:40, 27 May 2011 (UTC)
Carla Rushing page deletion
Any further discussion of Sarah Palin will result in a warning, and then a temporary block. Thank you!Hmmm, that might be just a tad excessive. We don't want to suppress all discussion, because that's when the pressure has nowhere to go, and people will go and meatball:ExpandScope.
Since scope is already expanded to international media, forcing scope to expand further might be a bit of a Bad Idea (tm). I recommend Not Going There.
If we're really intent on keeping discussions off of WP, we can always create a wikinews article, and link to the "discuss this article" page.
However, at the moment, people seem to be keeping it down to a dull roar anyway.
--Kim Bruning (talk) 22:44, 6 June 2011 (UTC)
- I think you caught my side point, but I'd like to stress the part I'm trying to tell you to watch out for!
- Long term empirical experience shows that attempts to curtail discussion on wikipedia will not slow down the internet discussion elsewhere (or even on wikipedia). Instead, that's exactly what will feed it more and more steam. So Don't Do That.
- Experience shows that the following approaches work:
- Try to centralize all (spurious) discussion in one place
- keep it as focused on encyclopedic work as possible.
- Treat the new users like new users. They don't know our rules yet. Teach them!
- The foundation would like to see us be more welcoming towards new users. That's a good idea! Let's do that.
- --Kim Bruning (talk) 00:26, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
- And... it went to AN/I (see below) --Kim Bruning (talk) 01:33, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
Edit Notice on Paul RevereYou seem to be asserting some admin right to quench discussion on the talk page by blocking and/or warning with the editnotice that I don't think we have, by policy. IAR doesn't cover stomping on people, no matter how annoying a particular conversation is.
Kelly started a
WP:ANI discussion on this.
Followups probably best on ANI as I am sure others will want to comment. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 01:15, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
- On review - I'm going to blank the edit notice now. If an ANI consensus develops to support restoring it then I'll not object at all, but I think it's novel and enough of a stretch that the default should be "no" unless consensus develops otherwise. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 01:19, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
How does a user find a mentor?
Helen Lucy Burke
Talkback
I did what you asked but the IP reverted it again. PTJoshua (talk) 21:09, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
- You're removing everything I say. Please don't do this. It isn't helpful. --86.45.75.42 (talk) 21:19, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
- I'll talk to them. Sit tight for a second. m.o.p 21:10, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
RE: Deletion of 48gogreen page :ApalejaHello,
Thank you for quick response. I appreciate your reason. but if you do some research you'll find more then 4 or 5 substantial mentions in local or international media - in a newspaper, on a notable website, etc. - to put forward this article.
There is a link on official website of company. http://www.48gogreen.com/static/web
Looking forward for your response. thank you in advance to undelete article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Apaleja (talk • contribs) 08:03, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
Here are some articles from International Press (you can use Google translator-if you use chrome it'll provide option immediately):
http://www.regione.emilia-romagna.it/wcm/cinema/sezioni_primopiano/PrimoPiano/Gadoev.htm
http://domani.arcoiris.tv/girano-un-corto-in-48-ore-e-arrivano-dritti-a-cannes/
http://www.close-up.it/spip.php?article6724
http://www.flashvideo.it/news/9/2578/
http://www.radioemiliaromagna.it/cultura/cinema/videomaker_bolognesi_cannes_corto_ecologico.aspx
Also if YOU HAD READ careful our site you should have see the Press link (those are press links not blogs) with all these web press: http://www.48gogreen.com/static/web
Thank you — Preceding unsigned comment added by Apaleja (talk • contribs) 08:22, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
Final warning On Edit Warring of Efik language disputeIf My Reporting a false article is the reason you want to block me. Then Go ahead and BLOCK me.- I can be Block because I don't care to be part of a web/Encyclopedia of Lies! Although I have contributed anonymously to wikipedia since 2008, I only just signed on a few weeks ago to report an error that I thought was made. But you and your other BIASED administrators have refused to fix this error, instead you're all threatening to block me.
- : According to Wikipedia A false statement/article is removed immediatley it is realized. Yet as am reporting it you all are threatening me for causing disruption.
- You all are saying that I called I called Kwami Slow, Dumb etc. Yet Kwami used the words Ignorance first.
"As for Ukwa, your ignorance is not evidence of anything".
- What is the meaning of IGNORANCE? S/He also said;
"But we cannot have the same article under two names, nor an article on Ibibio-Efik that does not include Ibibio, nor an article on Efik that does not include Efik. A little common sense would be helpful."
- What is meaning of Common sense? Or because Kwami put it very nicely, and mine wasn't? Also I wasn't blanking the Efik page, since I just signed on it takes me a long while to write up an article. According to the statements above, Kwami said I could develop articles on Efik and Ibibio, that is what I was doing when you or your other BIASED administrators returned the articles back to the re-direct.
- : Since wikipedia says a false statement is fixed immediately it is reported, I explained out the mistakes, but Kwami kept insisting that me a native who speaks these languages was wrong and asked for sources. I provided the sources and Kwami Called A brilliant Historian who is a Million times more knowledgable than Kwami on the language;
"utterly ignorant AND not some random idiot who posted a web page".
- Yet you and your other Biased colleges are claiming that am the one attacking Kwami and causing a disruption.
- : Am done with Wikipedia, am going to be taking this issues to the Founder/head by email, once the Ibibio union are involved it might become a legal matter if Wikipedia still continues to portray this misleading information.
I will take this matter to the heads by Email first because they might not be aware of what you all supposed administrators are doing to their image. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ibibiogrl (talk • contribs) 21:41, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
Hi Mops,
Pls read my comments on the ANI page. I think Ibibiogrl means well, she just needs some guidance, and she's not willing to take it from me. — kwami (talk) 22:17, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
- Obviously we would like to have contributors from that part of the world, but Ibibiogrl's record here is so unpromising that I think we need good assurances that something will change in the future. (I would welcome any evidence that Ibibiogrl means well. It is hard to improve the encyclopedia when you have no interest in or respect for its policies. Read her statement above if you are uncertain about that). Mentorship has value only for someone who understands that something has gone wrong and would be willing to work with a mentor. EdJohnston (talk) 22:46, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
- I agree with Ed in this case - I have no grudge against Ibibiogrl, but the editor's attitude, despite multiple pleas for otherwise, remained combative and even insulting at points. If there's a serious expression of guilt and the editor decides they'd like to walk a different path, I'd be happy to help. However, as it is now, I believe the block should stand. m.o.p 22:52, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
- I agree that it would require some indication that she wants help. Just my 2¢ as the person she's most upset with. — kwami (talk) 23:05, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
- For the record, your input is highly appreciated, and very admirable; as the editor in conflict with her, I respect your neutrality and helpfulness. As for Ibibiogrl, we'll see where that goes. Cheers! m.o.p 00:59, 17 June 2011 (UTC)
Can you adopt me i want a new adopter.
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Mr. Pit (2nd nomination)
This isn't personalI belive the AFD on Campaign for "santorum" neologism was closed way to early and am contesting your close.
An editor has asked for a deletion review of Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2011 June 21. Because you closed the deletion discussion for this page, speedily deleted it, or otherwise were interested in the page, you might want to participate in the deletion review. KoshVorlon' Naluboutes Aeria Gloris 12:17, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
James Ball
Thank you for your concern. But I will not be blocked - _I am adding_ wikipedia to adblock. I also feel regret for having donated to the site before, but this will not happen again. Demonuminon (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 23:25, 23 June 2011 (UTC).
Thomas James BallWhy the hell did you delete his page?
Does his suffering mean nothing to you?
Heartless bitch. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.57.206.141 (talk • contribs)
Hey, Master of Puppets, OBVIOUSLY there is a public interested in keeping this article. Restore your deletion. Look at the massive flood of comments regarding your deletion here: http://www.<linkremoved>.com/2011/06/24/the-organized-silencing-of-a-man-publicly-burned-to-death/ and here http://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/i81rw/the_organized_silencing_of_a_man_publicly_burned/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Romerom (talk • contribs) 20:05, 24 June 2011 (UTC)
- Ball HIT A FOUR-YEAR-OLD CHILD, refused to pay child support, called for insurrection, demanded terrorism and violence as a solution, ultimately killed himself (leaving his children without a father) and damaged public property in the process. Even after all that, his incoherent message has mostly been ignored except by the less discriminating people claiming to speak for "men's rights" who haven't bothered to look into the details of his case. (If you really want to damage your cause, adopt a grown man who hits his own four-year-old child and flakes out on his child support as your poster boy.) --Orange Mike | Talk 20:26, 24 June 2011 (UTC) (proud father who has never hit his child in his lifetime)
Hey, "proud father who never hit his child in his lifetime", not everybody is against disciplining their children by spanking. He said his daughter was licking his hand, and he had told her repeatedly to stop. She didn't, and he smacked her. He didn't punch her, or send her to the hospital, or cause any serious injury. Just enough to have his wife baited into calling the police on him by child protective services. As for child support, he paid his child support until the point where he wasn't able to afford it due to an employment issue. Is that such a crazy thing to have happen? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.211.155.1 (talk) 04:28, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
- Again, while I do sympathize with the family and supporters, I am not taking sides, nor do I have any bias in this situation. I am not a feminist, nor am I a misogynist - I am fair and neutral towards all people, whether they be abusive fathers or abused fathers.
- This deletion was enforced solely in keeping with Wikipedia's long-established policies. Mr. Ball's death, while indeed tragic, was not reported throughout the reliable media enough to show his notability.
- I hope this makes sense to all those saddened by Mr. Ball's passing. Cheers, m.o.p 21:04, 24 June 2011 (UTC)
- I understand that you do not think that Mr. Ball's death is something that qualifies as an event and thus deleted said article. I disagree but I do see the merits of your argument. However, you claim to be unbiased in this debate and yet for someone who judges on the letter of the law you break the law and close debate 2.5 days before final judgment is to be rendered. If you have no corner then I ask why make this article a special case that it must be quelled , by your own admission, 2.5 days before any other articles found in similar circumstances are voted upon. I petition you to reinstate and allow the normal course of the discussion continue for the 2.5 days, allow the full opportunity for the pro side to make their case then recluse yourself from the final judgment. This is the only way to ensure transparency so that your claim of neutrality can be believed. CaffOMHW (talk) 03:28, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
- Ahead of things, let me tell you that I appreciate the civility.
- Wikipedia's policies aren't law - they're guidelines. As an administrator, it's my job to apply policy in a way that is completely devoid of bias and benefits the encyclopedia as a whole.
- On a side note, the deletion nomination was closed 1.5 days before the normal time. The page had a whole work week to be saved, rewritten or reworked; however, due to the lack of outside sourcing that carried reliability, there was nothing to keep that wasn't editorialized or unencyclopedic. I would also like to point out that almost every account that voiced their opinion in the 'keep' spectrum had either only edited that page or had edited very little aside from the page. Meanwhile, the deletion argument was put forward by experienced users.
- Though I understand that some people take offense to my early closure, I assure them that one extra day would not have yielded success, and that I took many factors into consideration before closing the discussion.
- Again, thank you for the civility, but I won't be overturning judgment or recreating a deletion discussion at this date. m.o.p 08:17, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
ITNthx for the 2 quick updates of my nom ;)
but also can you see the bolivia one. its got support and very nearly out of the news. we could tack it nearer the border.Lihaas (talk) 22:26, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
Ball closure.
Thank God you are an ambassador for WP, and against censorship, MoP. When Wikipedia fails, and it eventually will, it will largely be because most people don't like to be gamed and would rather not read well cultivated information that is maintained by dishonest brokers who hide behind rules that are never applied in an even-handed manner. The idea that a story is not relevant merely because it is not yet encyclopedic is ridiculous when one sees all the articles which linger on for months or years in the same state. The idea that a story is not relevant because the motivations/justifications of the user are suspect would be grounds for eliminating half the biographical articles in WP. It smacks of an agenda. The appearance of impropriety is as bad as actual impropriety.173.78.20.96 (talk) 04:51, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
- I appreciate the feedback.
- I do my best to maintain an equal, proportionate response in all dealings on Wikipedia; I don't defend things I like, or attack things I dislike, just for the reason of screwing with people. That strikes me as childish. Instead, the most I can do is try to help others understand Wikipedia policies, which are generally mind-bending and hard to grasp (for example, most people ask, "What's the reasoning a war hero isn't considered notable when Donkey Kong is?").
- Maybe one day the policies will change. I mean, most of these were written five, six year ago - the world's changing, and I expect they will with time. But, for now, the guidelines handle what comes in.
- Again, thanks for the input. I appreciate not being personally attacked - it makes it easier to reply. Cheers, m.o.p 05:08, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Natami (2nd nomination)
- The close was thoroughly thought-out, so there's not much ground for me to explore that I haven't already. If you're set on going to DRV, there's nothing I can say which will change your mind, and it's your right to ask for a review. However, current consensus sits at delete (unless the 'keep' side is hiding an ace-in-the-hole reliable source or something). Cheers, m.o.p 04:55, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- So, what about the reliable sources we already brought up in the AfD such as this interview in Amiga Future or this news article from nr2.ru? We've already established that Amiga Future isn't sponsored by a hardware company as one !voter there falsely claimed. On a related note, did you discount the !votes from individuals making misleading statements or those claiming there were "no independent reliable sources"? (I could tell you how that !voter happened to show up there, but he isn't going to like it.) I could also link to forum posts by another delete !voter who showed up there who was very much into a "delete at any cost" mode because he doesn't like "amiga clones". --Tothwolf (talk) 05:11, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- Those sources were there before the previous close, and I, like the previous administrator, do not think they're strong enough.
- I've already covered what kind of rationale was discounted and what wasn't.
- As for your last statement about other editors - I'm not quite sure what your point is, but I don't think it's relevant. As I said, I've discounted any rationale that does not apply policy.
- Cheers, m.o.p 05:33, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- Uh, no...nr2.ru was only brought up in the second AfD. Strong enough is also an argument to be made in a !vote, not a closing statement. --Tothwolf (talk) 05:56, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- My apologies, the Russian source was indeed added after the first AfD. Still too shaky for a stand-alone article, though. Cheers, m.o.p 13:42, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- To follow up on my earlier comment, while I don't really want to get into an "X did this because of Y" sort of thing with regards to this AfD, there were a number of delete !voters who showed up there for personal reasons/vendettas/bias and/or who made false statements about sources. Despite the template at the top of the AfD, the second AfD also didn't suffer from the forum canvassing that the first did. One of the delete !voters actually came by way of the forum and first AfD and was trolling because of his personal dislike of Amiga clones. --Tothwolf (talk) 15:33, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
If they have valid, policy-based rationale, their personal motivation doesn't matter, solely for the reason that an encyclopedia based on liking or disliking things would crumble instantly. I'm sure some of the deletion crew could just-as-easily blame keep voters for being enthusiasts and fans of Natami - but that's not important. As a result, making allegations of personal bias is unnecessary. The help is appreciated, but there's nothing I can do with the information. m.o.p 15:39, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- It matters when someone makes false statements and tries to hide what they are doing behind policy. As for keeps, quite a number appear to be from well established editors who don't appear to be all that interested in Amiga topics. As for myself, I wasn't even aware of NatAmi until the first AfD and didn't even !vote in the first AfD since I thought it was pretty obvious it was headed for a no-consensus close. --Tothwolf (talk) 15:58, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- Again, if their rationale is grounded in policy, their motivation does not matter, simply because it's impossible to discern someone's intent through text, and because the second someone accuses another of favoritism/malicious intent the entire argument turns into a bunch of people shouting, "You're lying." That's why there's nothing I can do with your information in this case. Cheers, m.o.p 16:02, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- Apologies to you, M.O.P., for addressing another editor on your talk page, but I just wanted to jump in this conversation. Tothwolf, with no prejudice against you at all I strongly suggest you take this in perspective. There have been two AFDs and an ANI report over this article. The way you treated me on my talk page threatening DRV because I was a new administrator was, as I feel it, borderline harassing. That you canvassed two other administrators to talk to me was also a below the belt move. In good faith, I relisted the debate and it has closed again as delete. I strongly suggest taking the advice at WP:DGAF into account here and let the issue go. I don't think there will be a problem recreating this article, even pulling the old content back from the deletion log, when the subject has better sources in a broader community. I hold no ill feeling toward you, this is purely honest advice.--v/r - TP 16:46, 27 June 2011 (UTC)]
- TParis, while you are correct in that this talk page is not the place for this, because you brought this up here and you seem to value honest feedback, I'll address this here.
In no way did I ever threaten you with DRV, let alone because you were a new administrator (discussion in question). I did however upon noticing that you had passed RFA only days earlier decide it best not to press you further in public and instead sent you this short email: "Sigh. I just noticed you just finished your RFA. The Natami AfD was a bad AfD to pick to close right out of the gate. It is likely to end up at DRV and given the magazine I mentioned, overturned. I really wish you would reconsider your close. You might have noticed I didn't even !vote in the AfD itself, however I did point out a number of things and took a couple of people to task for making false or misleading statements." That is the only email I sent you about the matter and not once did I ever threaten you with DRV. Please get your facts correct before making statements such as this because such mistakes can have a negative effect on others.
After you replied expressing your disagreement over the sources (and implied that I might be biased because I sometimes contribute to computing-related articles) I asked a number of other administrators (way more than two, actually) what they thought of the AfD's close because I wanted unbiased feedback to see if I was somehow totally off-track before I initiated a DRV. The feedback I got was fairly unanimous in that the close was problematic. Before I had a chance to draft a DRV however, you reverted your own close and relisted the AfD from scratch with a new listing. In no way did I ever "canvass" anyone to "talk to you" and if others did contact you directly, they did so at their own discretion and for their own reasons.
There indeed have been two AfDs, the first of which you closed (although one could also argue that the second was merely a relist of the first). The AN/I "discussion" you also mentioned wasn't really over this article or the first AfD, it was an attempt by someone to game AN/I when they were unable to bully me on their talk page. Please be more careful making these sort of blanket statements in the future because as I mentioned above such statements can cause problems for others. --Tothwolf (talk) 17:38, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- You're email was exactly like your reply here. You like to make threats without actually making them: "such statements can cause problems". There is very little way your email cannot be interpreted as anything other than a threat of DRV because I am a new administrator. This is all I'll say on M.O.P.'s talk page as I came here to offer honest advice and you don't seem interested in it. If you'd like to discuss further with me, you know where to find my talk page.--v/r - TP 17:51, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- TParis, in no way did I ever make an implied threat. While I may be a little blunt and abrasive at times (or maybe I'm just an assume good faith in that you simply misremembered the facts I outlined above when you made this statement here. It is easy to forget a few details here or there and not everyone maintains detailed notes for this sort of stuff (I do, for a number of reasons, although I didn't always).
As far as honest advice goes, this is a two-way street and I gave you my opinion as well. If you choose to ignore and discount it, so be it, but I'd suggest you be much more careful in the future and get your facts correct before you make the sort of statement you made above. Such statements can and do cause problems for other editors. Who knows, it may just be that you've not been around long enough yet to have witnessed people blocked or punished in some way because someone else didn't have their facts together. (If you do decide you want to continue this discussion, perhaps we should take this elsewhere.) --Tothwolf (talk) 18:14, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
]
Heaton Park Hebrew Congregation (2nd nomination)
Natami
Thought you might want to know
- (talk page stalker) That's just the same little ideological website which has been pushing for the "Martyrdom of St. Thomas Ball" attention since day one; no actual new coverage. --Orange Mike | Talk 14:34, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
- I guess I should also mention that the way I found it, was that someone tried submitting it to Fark.com last night. The admins did not greenlight it, so that particular submission/thread did not go to the main Fark page, appearing only to those with Totalfark accounts. The submission said something like "Wikipedia deletes burning man" (I'm not at a computer with TF access so I might not have that exactly right). It might, theoretically, based on the submission, be considered some sort of off-site canvassing (it was submitted with the asinine tag). For what its worth, the thread went uncommented, so I don't think that particular attempt garnered any support. I just wanted to drop a line in case that this was just the first drop of a large storm. If I see anything else, I'll drop a line here. Umbralcorax (talk) 15:58, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
Wiki ad
4chan raid
Thomas James Bell, new information
- (reliable sources. --Orange Mike | Talk 13:33, 30 June 2011 (UTC)]
Happy Birthday
![](//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3d/Nuvola_apps_cookie.svg/50px-Nuvola_apps_cookie.svg.png)
Just a happy Birthday message to you, Master of Puppets, from the Wikipedia Birthday Committee! Have a great day!
Monterey Bay (talk) 02:00, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
User:BillyMoses
Natami
AFD
- Your input is appreciated, though there's nothing I can do with it but take a note. If you'd like, you can weigh in at the next AfD(s), when/if they arise. Cheers, m.o.p 19:42, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
Dr Myko San – Health from Mushrooms
- I'd be happy to help! However, I'm currently away from a computer (typing this on my phone), so I'll have to check in on the 11th of July. Does that sound okay? m.o.p 15:40, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
- wp:NODEADLINE :-) LeadSongDog come howl! 15:48, 7 July 2011 (UTC)]
From a former Wikipedian
-71.234.90.0 (talk) 04:50, 8 July 2011 (UTC)
- Hey, thanks so much! I'm not sure who you are, but I really appreciate the sentiment. Hope all is well! m.o.p 20:49, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
Deletion review for Thomas James Ball
DRV comment
DRV
Could you please overturn the deletion of these files per File:Signature of Amitabh Bachchan.svg and File:Signature of Zakir Hussain.svg:
- File:Signature of Vishwanathan Anand.svg
- File:Signature of Vijay Mallya.svg
- File:Signature of Venkaiah Naidu.svg
- File:Signature of Sudeep Bandhopadhyay.svg
- File:Signature of Sonia Gandhi.svg
- File:Signature of Somnath Chatterjee.svg
- File:Signature of Ratan Tata.svg
- File:Signature of Kumar Mangalam Birla.svg
- File:Signature of Rajeev Shukla.svg
- File:Signature of Raj Babbar.svg
- File:Signature of Rahul Gandhi.svg
- File:Signature of Priyanka Vadra.svg
- File:Signature of P. T. Usha.svg
- File:Signature of Narendra Modi.svg
- File:Signature of Nandan Nilekani.svg
- File:Signature of Manish Tewari.svg
- File:Signature of Leander Paes.svg
- File:Signature of Lata Mangeshkar.svg
- File:Signature of Kumar Mangalam Birla.svg
- File:Signature of Karia Munda.svg
- File:Signature of Kapil Sibal.svg
- File:Signature of Kamal Nath.svg
- File:Signature of K. Kamraj.svg
- File:Signature of Jaya Bachchan.svg
- File:Signature of Gautam Gambhir.svg
- File:Signature of Brinda Karat.svg
- File:Signature of Bharatsinh Solanki.svg
- File:Signature of Bhairon Singh Shekhawat.svg
- File:Signature of B. K. Birla.svg
- File:Signature of Azim Premji.svg
- File:Signature of Arun Jaitely.svg
- File:Signature of Aishwarya Rai Bachchan.svg
- File:Signature of Abhishek Manu Singhvi.svg
- File:Signature of Abhishek Bachchan.svg
- File:Signature of Sting.svg
- File:Signature of Br. L. D. Lobo.svg
- File:Signature of VJ Rannvijay Singh Singha.svg
Diligent07Appears to be less than new. See User talk:Raoulduke25 where he states that this is a deliberate series of edits.
- Can you please help defend our collective effort of including the obscene middle-finger incident in the Cheney Mason article? It should be maintained in the article for public interest, etc. Please see the Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard#Cheney Mason discussion page and include your thoughts in favor of having the content remain in the interests of the public, etc
[8], [9] and even imputation that an editor has a connection with the person [10]. He has been on since April, and started off as being experienced on WP IMHO. Kindly keep an eye out please. Especially for any sign of a real "collective effort"? Such as [11]? Cheers. Collect (talk) 11:36, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
A cookie for you!
Keep up the good work defending the "Wiki" against genre warriors. Thanks for the help! talk) 17:31, 13 July 2011 (UTC)]
Hello. You have a new message at Lionelt's talk page.
Semi protection
OK, this thing with the militant atheism page is impossibleThese guys are incredible... I could dig up diffs to show you how they revert and wikilawyer even the SMALLEST attempt to move the article closer to NPOV. But that would take a long time for you to read. How about I show you this instead:
These guys are utterly without scruples. Who in their right mind would remove the NPOV dispute tag when heated arguments have been raging for weeks and NO moves whatsoever have been made to fix the article? Oh right, that would be someone in their right mind who is running a propaganda platform.
Anyway... I wanted to ask your advice on what to do. These guys are impossible to work with. Most of the other editors have given up and refuse to put this page on their watchlist. So what to do then? Request formal mediation? Articles for deletion? Something else?
Me and the other editors would like to see the page replaced with a disambiguation page... since literally ALL the content has already been covered (better) in Criticism of atheism, State atheism and New Atheism.
Obhave (talk) 13:21, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
- Hello User:Master of Puppets. I noticed this conversation and thought I might add that an NPOV policy. Obhave (talk) 13:11, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
- One more thing, m.o.p... my opponents are currently twisting your words to make it look as if you were scolding user:Mann_jess all along. Obhave (talk) 14:42, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
]
User:Jasper Deng page protection
- No worries! m.o.p 19:35, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
Is there a procedure for brutal uncollaborated editing with a destructive intent?I noticed that you recently had problems with proposed brutal editing by Peter S Strempel. Although he has been more sensible on your project in the end (possibly because of your administrator status?) he has not been so with regard to the astrology project pages to which he made a similar 'razor-promise'. Could you please see this Afd request which is one of three he made for major 'history of astrology' articles within the last hour, with a promise on another important page that any comment which is not refrences within 7 days will be removed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Babylonian_astrology
Is there anything that can be done about this officially to stop him wreaking havoc with content whilst he knows that the small group of editors providing content on these pages are already stretched to the limit trying to keep up with what needs to be done? I don't understand what drives some people to want to edit WP like this, but I think it is entriely the result of his ego-stress that when he proposed an edit for a passage, no one favoured it. Hope you can help or advise Zac Δ talk 01:15, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks! assume good faith; I believe that Peter is simply trying to help improve Wikipedia. While his methods may be lacking in some areas, he has displayed a pretty decent grasp on the policies he's trying to enforce.
- However, I agree that he shouldn't be making any changes if they're not discussed with the community first. Do you mind pulling up a few diffs of where he went against consensus? I'll approach him with your concern then. Thanks, m.o.p 03:57, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
- Actually there hasn't been any significant content dispute with Peter. He proposed a change to a section edit which wasn't a very good proposition and a few editors commented but without rancur, and I added a new section post immediately afterwards to point out the proiposed change would contradict with how the definition was given correctly at a later point in the article, outlining how I understood WP policy expected the main astrology article to pull its own content together, along with its summarised content from its daughter pages. Peter never responded to this but other editors started working in that direction immediately. Then, without further discussion or comment, Peter came back four days later to announce an intention to take his 'word razor' to all unreferenced assertions on the main astrology page, its sub-pages, and the portal page itself, to ensure his perceived disagreement was not circumvented in pages he viewed as content forks (I'm still not sure what he means by that). My response to that can be seen - a perfectly reasonable request for him to do what he felt was most productive, but consider that citation-tagging was the way to go. I also placed comments on his talk-page, which you can read if you are interested. That he erupted into a frenzy of AfD requests last night says something, I think, about his unwillingness to discuss and engage in other views. Most of his posts appear as new section declarations that don't appear to have considered the responses other editors give him.
- I've summarised this in the ANI request Dougweller started. The deletion requests were a step too far IMO, and I'm concerned that Peter would spring to such drastic measures in reaction to what he perceives to be me not allowing him to do what he wants to do. I'll be away for a few days so I'm tying up my WP activity now. That underlines my concern that he intends to take such drastic action with only one week's notice of intent. Thanks for looking into this. It would be good if something could be proposed to stop huge problems before they occur. 10:35, 22 July 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zachariel (talk • contribs
)
- One last request. I have just noticed that a related complaint, which is quite serious but has been sidetracked (deliberatly IMO) by Peter's suggestions that I have prevented him from doing what he wants, has been collapsed as "going nowehere" by an unsympathetic editor.
- "Its ben here several days and no admin has even sniffed at a block or ban - clearly you're not going to get admin action. So this should got to WP:DR or WP:RFCU if you want to take it further. I've boldly collapsed this, though I won't be surprised if someone uncollapses it"
- If you can find the time could you at least take a look at that related problem, and consider uncollapsing it, because the issues are serious and have gone beyond the point where Dispute resolution are appropriate. I will be away and have nothing more to add, but the problems identified still remain. Zac Δ talk 10:58, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
What to do?
- I've started a threat at ANI. Those AfDs are purely pointy and if no one objects I'll close them. talk) 06:11, 22 July 2011 (UTC)]
- Replied there. m.o.p 08:20, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
Talk Page on Militant Atheism - Introduction Section
- The update is appreciated, thanks very much. I've been dealing with life for the past two weeks, but I'll be back to close that discussion tonight or tomorrow. Thanks again, m.o.p 22:03, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
- Just bringing this up again, given the current state of this section. I believe the discussion will be archived automatically if not closed. I'm sorry if I sound pushy with you having a lot on your plate of late. If you would prefer, I could alert User:Fastily instead. Turnsalso (talk) 16:55, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
ITN
- I knew that tab I closed had unfinished business on it... thanks. 2008 University of Central Arkansas shootings is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.
The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2008 University of Central Arkansas shootings(2nd nomination) until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on good quality evidence, and our policies and guidelines.
Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article.
talk 14:00, 1 September 2011 (UTC)]
Hey
- Done! Both your userpage and the transcluded page are protected. Cheers, « ₣M₣ » 04:09, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Restored. m.o.p 05:21, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
]
User talk:Joshua the Independent
- My mistake - my block script auto-filled the edit summary. The block was issued due to the user's newfound will to disrupt Wikipedia intentionally. Their previous contributions are welcome, but this behaviour necessitates administrative action. m.o.p 21:52, 13 September 2011 (UTC)
Say hi to your imaginary girlfriend for me
- Well, I do love getting hate mail. Thanks for the laugh! Cheers, m.o.p 05:17, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
...further to the above lovely note, I weighed in on Calabe's talk page - there appears to be more confusion here than at first glance. bou·le·var·dier (talk) 05:19, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
Sorry to drop by again, but Silentsizzlingsausage (talk · contribs) would appear to be a duck. bou·le·var·dier (talk) 05:31, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
- No, it's not an issue! Thanks for the note, blocked. Cheers, WP:SPI. Thanks again, m.o.p 06:13, 14 September 2011 (UTC)]
I have to admit ...
- See the above section. The link is apparently a very subtle spam link that Calabe is removing, and socks are springing up to revert him. Swarm u / t 10:20, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
Moderation
- Alright, I'll make my way back. Thanks for letting me know! m.o.p 05:18, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
User:12.139.96.228
- To be honest, this case is perplexing. Half of this user's edits are constructive (mostly sourced), the other half aren't sourced - and the user won't reply to anybody. I'm also too busy to go through every edit and confirm whether or not it's good. I forgot about this for a while - I'll think about it tonight and figure something out for tomorrow. Thanks for reminding me! m.o.p 05:18, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
Whoops
- Whoops! Must not have been looking when I ran my block script. Thanks for letting me know, I've reblocked them for a far shorter (technically, an infinitely shorter) time. Cheers, m.o.p 22:58, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
Ashleyleggat404
- You're fully right in that the blanking policy covers indefinite blocks. I've removed the user's talk page rights as a result. Thanks again! m.o.p 00:28, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkback
Moderation
- If you look into this please consider whether Anupam's actions on the talk page and the entry itself are violations of WP:OWN. He's been driving off those he disagrees with by bludgening them to death with argument and heavily policing the entry claiming that there is a consensus written in stone despite many dissenting voices. Others have taken to simply calling him "the article's owner." I have had enough of this behavior personally and left him a message about it on his talk page. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:52, 20 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Dear User:Master of Puppets, the above user has misrepresented the occurrences at the article. I started another Introduction discussion at the article's talk page but User:Griswaldo has chosen to edit war over a second NPOV tag, despite the fact that one already exists in the article. He has done so despite the fact that the Introduction is being discussed in a peaceful manner at the talk page, in violation of your injunction: "We've only got consensus on this proposed versions (and loose consensus at that) - please do not attempt to subvert said consensus by making undiscussed changes." I have posted a message on his talk page about this behaviour. Nevertheless, I also do not wish to argue with the user personally and would prefer if you could go back to moderating the discussion between the two parties at the talk page. Thanks for taking the time to read this message. With regards, AnupamTalk 20:58, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- His "injunction?" Adding a neutrality tag to a specific sentence which an editor disputes the neutrality of is hardly "subverting the consensus by making undiscussed changes." Please stop wikilawyering to get your way. There is a growing consensus against your position regarding this article in general as well, despite your aggressive policing of the entry and the talk page. See ]
- I just thought that I would mention that User:Griswaldo, after seeing this message, just now decided to comment in the discussion rather than edit war against consensus further. Thanks for taking the time to read this message. With regards, AnupamTalk 21:51, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- "Edit war against consensus further?" My comment there has nothing to do with your message here. I've made three total edits to this entry ever. One was a copy edit in June, another was reverting an IP vandal, and the third was the revert of your Ownership edit. Please do not insinuate that I'm a edit warrior on this page. It is disingenuous.Griswaldo (talk) 22:08, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Thank you all for approaching me with your concerns.
- Obviously, I do not support Anupam - this is because I'm remaining a neutral third party, and, therefore, can't take sides. However, Griswaldo: please keep in mind that I did ask for all discussion to take place on the talk page. Why not just add your complaints to the talk page? It would have been much easier to discuss.
- I do agree that adding a NPOV tag, while slightly redundant, isn't horrible, but your intent seems to have been to stir discussion on that particular section, discussion that would be much more appropriate on the talk page.
- As for your and Snalwibma's concerns of Anupam trying to 'own' the article, I'm curious as to what you two mean; what 'delusions'?
- Also, Griswaldo, I don't think Anupam meant to insinuate you are an edit warrior (though this is just my take) - rather, they wanted to add the note that you've weighed in on discussion. m.o.p 22:10, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- your intent seems to have been to stir discussion on that particular section - No that's incorrect. I didn't add this tag, I simply reverted Anupam's attempt to own the page when he removed it. I agreed with JimWae's addition of the tag and found Anupam's removal to be unwarranted and a display of ownership.Griswaldo (talk) 22:16, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Note that, for all intents and purposes, reverting somebody is adding whatever is included in your edit, regardless of who put it there first. You revert a removal, you're agreeing with the edition you're reverting to - simple.
- And, if you agreed with JimWae, then we go back to what I was saying earlier - say so on the talk page. Two of you agree? Great! That's closer to consensus. But it means nothing if you express your support by reverting removals.
- Again, as I've asked multiple times, please stop saying that Anupam is owning anything without giving me evidence of it first. m.o.p 22:22, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Dear User:Master of Puppets, thank you for your reply to all of us. The reason User:Snalwibma stated that I was attempting to "own" the article was because I reverted an undiscussed removal from the article, which not only myself, but two other users objected to. In fact, two anonymous IP Addresses also reverted User:Snalwibma. I was open to compromise on the issue and stated that I would accept User:Turnsalso's compromise on the issue. I kindly request you to look at that discussion yourself and get an honest reading of it. Also, the only reason I removed the second NPOV tag was because there was already one present, which I did not remove. I only reverted the addition of a second NPOV tag once and even explained myself on the talk page. When I went to the talk page, I found rude accusations and an anti-collaborative spirit, despite the fact that I have been nothing but polite. I hope this helps. With regards, AnupamTalk 22:25, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry - I know I should not rise to the bait, but I have to object to the comment "The reason User:Snalwibma stated that I was attempting to 'own' the article was because I reverted an undiscussed removal ..." How dare Anupam presume to know what is in my mind! The reason I describe Anupam's attitude to the article as one of ownership is because that is how s/he behaves - "policing" every edit, pronouncing on whether s/he "accepts" or "rejects" it, peremptorily reverting anything s/he does not like, without discussion, presuming to know others' motives, and judging them as fit/unfit to contribute to the article. This has been going on for weeks, if not months. It is impossible to discuss the content of the article, let alone improve the text, because everything is filtered through the approval/disapproval of the article's self-appointed guardian, Anupam. tendentious or disruptive when they bring up certain issues, even when they are clearly in the majority. That is not collaborative. I stopped editing the article heavily because of those issues. I don't have any delusions that my opinion is worth more than anyone else's here, but I would think that the large number of established, experienced editors who are all saying there's a problem, would indicate something. — Jess· Δ♥ 19:45, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
Please reconsider your full protection of Militant atheist
- In case you didn't notice, I asked that people think twice about pointing fingers at each other. If you'd like to start a sockpuppetry investigation, let me know, and we can take that avenue - however, don't accuse other editors of ownership without substance. If you think Anupam is trying to own things, give me something. Diffs, edits, anything. I'll check it out for you, but right now, baseless accusations are not what I'm looking for.
- Also, notice that I protected the article with your edit being the last one. How is that validating the very person you've been reverting?
- The protection will stay until consensus is reached. m.o.p 22:19, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Because protection is what he wants quite clearly. He's stalling conversation and shouting down people on the talk page, where, if you have a look, you'll see he's clearly in the minority. Because of your "injunction" as he calls it, he also claims that no matter how many people agree with a certain change it is illegitimate. I'll be happy to gather some diffs, but my first message to you above was to please look into the situation carefully before acting on it. Did you do that and come to the conclusion that I'm wrong or did you not head that request? Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:29, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Yes, I did heed your request. I don't see any ownership behaviour from Anupam, though, being involved in multiple disputes, I didn't have the time to read every last word on the page, so you're free to provide evidence. However, from what I can see, Anupam's last proposal was supported by the majority - not to count (and I don't mean to imply that I decide where consensus lies by looking at pure numbers), but from looking at pure supports versus opposes, eight people (nine including Anupam) support while four oppose. How does that make Anupam's views a minority? m.o.p 22:37, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- It depends on what view you are talking about. The current RFC on the introduction is something that most people don't even want to engage because most people think this very entry should be split up and integrated into other entries. I reluctantly engaged the RfC just now myself. The last time the more serious question about the entry was asked, several of the new commentators were not around, and there was "no consensus" found because the opposing side was chalk full of SPAs and editors with a view that is outright hostile to atheism (which is a legitimate view to hold, but it is a minority view). Let me find you some diffs.Griswaldo (talk) 22:43, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- User:Griswaldo, that is exactly the issue: you do not want to collaborate with other users on the talk page, which is why you were reluctant to participate in the current RfC. Moreover, there were several SPA's on the side of the opposition as well, including WP:NPOV. In addition, the split was again recently discussed and the specific case to do so was refuted by several editors. As such, there was no consensus for it. I hope this helps. With regards, AnupamTalk 22:52, 20 September 2011 (UTC)]
- No. You are trying to write an article that violates WP:SYNTH because it conflates New Atheism with oppressive communist regimes and their histories of violence. That's hardly NPOV. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:59, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
Hi m.o.p., as someone who occasionally looks at that page (and then washes my hands), I just want to compliment you as having done the right thing in full protecting. By way of unsolicited advice to the involved editors, the best thing they could do is to allow The Wrong Version to sit there a good long time, and devote their energy to other things. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:54, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
]
Yes, please reconsider your full protection of
WP:RS—deserve protection against misinformed reverts. Thanks Geremia (talk) 16:12, 22 September 2011 (UTC)]
Diffs of
- I'm not really sure where the ownership is here; nowhere in our policies is it stated that a user can't promote their RFC on the subject talk page. If it's ongoing and they'd like to move it to the forefront, what's wrong with that? More so, some of your summaries seem inaccurate - in that last diff, you state that Anupam is removing images, yet I only see Anupam adding an image (the peace dove that's at the top of the page). Also, you use repeating examples. m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Well clearly the last diff was wrong. Thanks for the vote of confidence. There are no repeat examples nor inaccurate summaries, just a mistaken copy paste of the second to last diff to the last position as well. I have fixed it. Cheers.
- Using "consensus claims from one RfC to reject changes made to article content
- Same as above. Using the "consensus" bludgeon to get his way. Please note that clearly we ought to edit by consensus, but this consensus is highly disputed, and IMO not there in the first place. The real problem is the way in which Anupam decides to use it like a trump card to remove changes he doesn't like. Ask yourself if all changes post "consensus" have been removed or just the ones Anupam decided he wanted removed.
Master of Puppets do you need more diffs or is this enough?Griswaldo (talk) 23:31, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Well I need more diffs because your "evidence" so far looks like a desperate attempt to incriminate an editor who has been very successful in persuading his colleagues to adopt his proposals. Anupam has presented his proposals, argued the merits and persuaded many editors. Anything you want to tell us about why you're having difficulty doing likewise? – Lionel (talk) 06:02, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- I don't see this is as conclusive evidence, either. And, it should be said - if people are editing against established consensus, then people are free to re-evaluate consensus, but edit-warring against it doesn't make much sense. m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- If not ownership then what is this - [28], [29], [30]? He removes two RfCs started by another editor, and revolving around the question that many of us actually find to be the fundamental question to answer regarding the entry. Then he edit wars to keep these RfCs off the page, claiming again to have some sort of authority stemming from your prior actions. If you aren't willing to do something here I'm going to another administrator and I'm going to ask for your initial "consensus," your strong arm administrating, and your lack of action here to be reviewed as well. Thanks.Griswaldo (talk) 17:08, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Anupam has already apologized for reverting those RfC additions, and we've moved past it. He also didn't claim to have administrative authority, but was waiting for my approval. We've cleared this up, it's not an issue. So no, I'm not going to take any action (as I've said here and on ANI). Now, if you'd like to threaten me and tell me that, since I'm not cooperating with your wills, you'll go to another administrator, that's fine - as I've said, you can seek outside opinions - but remember to keep a cool head, because borderline threats are not appreciated. m.o.p 21:49, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- It was not a threat, "borderline" or otherwise. You are conveniently ignoring a growing number of voices who are all saying the same thing - there is an ownership problem here. The deletion issue has not been "cleared up" as far as I'm concerned. Whenever it is mentioned Anupam insists that he did not "unilaterally" delete the RfCs from the page, which is a blatant distortion, since that is exactly what he did. He continues to act as a policeman at the page, and yes he does continue to cite your authority. Did you bother to read the many diffs I posted above in the second two sections? I will quote three random examples from those I provided for you if you want.
- When he first deleted the two RfCs he wrote: "rv - see discussion with reviewing administrator; approval needed to start another RfC while one is already occurring."
- When he deleted a fact tag that JimWae put into the lede: "rv excessive tagging per talk; tag is already extant in header; do not subvert previous consensus but gain consensus for potential additions per administrative notice"
- When he rejected another recent change to the entry: "accepted edits by User:Jkhwiki; rv removal of longstanding referenced content - see discussion on talk page and gain consensus for action per administrative injunction"
- In talk page comments and in edit summaries he consistently does the same thing. He refers to your authority, either directly or indirectly through your "notice" or your "injunction" as he likes to call it. I never said the claimed to have administrative authority, I said that he's using your authority, by way of your comments, such as the closure of the AfD to bully people. Do you deny that he citing your comments, because if you do then I must have fabricated those quotes. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:32, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
If you say "If you don't do A, then I'm going to go and do B", that's a threat. Anyway, that's not the issue - we've already covered all the issues with the RfC reverting, and Anupam won't do it again. Why keep raising hell over it?
We've already covered everything you bring up. And no, I'm not denying anything. I'm just saying this, and it's very simple: I don't think there has been any blatant ownership here. That's my judgment. If you disagree, again, feel free to raise this with another administrator or on ANI. m.o.p 23:12, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Regarding the new RFC, I still think there has not passed yet too much time since the last discussion about splitting the article. As far as I knew, repeating these sorts of debates (like splitting, deleting, renaming) before a larger amount of time has passed (like 6 months) is usually discouraged. And as others have also argued earlier, even if having multiple RFCs is possible, it's not very useful, and the new RFC seems to discourage further discussion about improving the lead introduction. So preventing multiple RFCs (and also a RFC about an issue debated not too long ago) does not look to me like evidence of bad faith intentions. Cody7777777 (talk) 21:37, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Cody, would you mind linking me to the previous RfC on splitting? m.o.p 21:49, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- The previous attempt to split the article can be found here. Cody7777777 (talk) 21:55, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Response
Yes, it does. Thanks, m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Dear User:Master of Puppets, I just noticed that User:Binksternet started another RfC while a current one is occurring. Is this appropriate? I reverted the addition motioning for one until your response is confirmed. If it is acceptable, then I apologize and will revert my edit. I look forward to your response. With regards, AnupamTalk 15:14, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'll form my reply on ANI. m.o.p 17:12, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- When you do please take into account my comment just above, regarding Anupam's edit warring to remove talk page comments (namely these RfCs) posted by others on the talk page. If you still don't think this is WP:OWN then clearly other administrators are needed here.Griswaldo (talk) 17:15, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Dear User:Griswaldo, how is going to a neutral mediator to address the issue owning the article? I acknowledge that the article is in dispute and as a result, I am asking an administrator for advice in this matter, NOT handling things on my own, as you have done by edit warring. Your WP:OWN allegations have not only been dismissed by this administrator, but by several other users, including, User:Lionelt, User:Cody7777777 and User:NYyankees51. Thanks, AnupamTalk 17:27, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- In reply to Griswaldo: reverting the RfCs was a mistake, but we've cleared that up now. As Anupam has stated at ANI, the intent was not to discourage discussion. If you think my judgment is compromised, you're welcome to seek another administrator's input. m.o.p 21:04, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- And as further evidence of WP:OWN, see this. Anupam adds a comment to everything that anyone else says, as if he/she is the owner of the article and everyone else is a subordinate contributor. This particular instance is pretty benign (although it clutters up the talk page with an unnecessary comment that merely says "I agree"), but I do think that Anupam at least needs to learn how to avoid giving the appearance of thinking he/she owns the article, and to desist from chipping in and saying the same thing over and over again, which almost makes meaningful discussion impossible! SNALWIBMA ( talk - contribs ) 17:31, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- While the input is appreciated, as I've said before, making allegations of ownership without hard evidence isn't going to get us anywhere. Anupam is not stopping others from discussing changes or forming consensus, and that's all that matters - refactoring the talk page or commenting on an issue is not against policy, and I'm not going to tell someone to stop editing because it "looks" like they're doing something wrong. As said above, you're welcome to request another administrator's insight if you wish. m.o.p 21:04, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
COIHi
you've helped me out before, with a conflict of interest problem, so having much more experience than me on wikipedia, I thought I would be bold enough to ask again for help.
Similar problem to last, User_talk:Hobbycraft is editing the HOBBYCRAFT article and making changes that aren't citably right. I think the user name suggest and history suggests a conflict of interest case.
Can you please, speak to them addressing this issue.
Thank you very much for your help.
Markcoulter50 (talk) 22:27, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
- I've blocked that user for username violations. Thanks a lot for letting me know! Keep up the great work, m.o.p 23:00, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkbackcausa sui (talk) 18:47, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Hello. You have a new message at causa sui's talk page. causa sui (talk) 20:54, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Problematic editing on militant atheism
- I hope it's not considered defamatory to repeat the final line: "I merely present the diffs above, and let others draw their own conclusions. Is this a duck? Does it quack? You decide.". Unfortunately, the concerned community no longer has that opportunity. What did you decide on their behalf? Does this duck quack, or not? bobrayner (talk) 15:42, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- It's not your wording, it's the very idea of it. Going to what's allegorically a public place and shouting, "Hey, everybody, this man is a criminal!" is one step below blatantly forming a lynch mob. As I've said, I have no problem with your wording or evidence, just your location of choice. Wikipedia is not, unfortunately, a democracy - letting others draw their conclusions and voice their opinions is not how a sockpuppet investigation works.
- So yes, please don't go restoring any of that section. We're not discussing editors, we're discussing the content they produce. Anything else has a sub-board to deal with it (like WP:SPI).
- Hopefully that clears things up! I'll be happy to answer any more questions should you have them. Cheers, m.o.p 15:48, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Hello User:Bobrayner, I noticed the section you created on the militant atheism talk page. If you do feel the way you do about User:Turnsalso and the anonymous IP Addresses, you can take this up with WP:SPI. Thanks, AnupamTalk 15:52, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
Are you kidding my MoP? Above your write: Going to what's allegorically a public place and shouting, "Hey, everybody, this man is a criminal!" is one step below blatantly forming a lynch mob. AND We're not discussing editors, we're discussing the content they produce. Yet you call this edit by Lionelt "good faith," at WQA? MoP, I would not ask you to agree with me or to like me, but can I please ask you not to insult me with these double standards.Griswaldo (talk) 16:18, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
]
- Griswaldo, I mean no offense when I say this, but I'd appreciate it if you stayed out of discussions which didn't involve you. Also, please don't put words in my mouth. Thanks, m.o.p 16:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I have not put words in your mouth. You said that you would assume good faith about Lionel. If you "assume good faith" it means you assume his edits were in "good faith." If you did not intend that meaning I suggest you reconsider what you wrote. Also, if you want me to "stay out of discussion which don't involve me" then I suggest your first order of business should be to do the same thing yourself. You decided to post at WQA, when there was no mention of you or anything you've done in that thread. Once again, I expect people not to practice double standards. So as long as you cannot show me that you will treat me as you ask to be treated yourself, I will not oblige you. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:21, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Please stop bickering. I'm not quite sure what you're trying to accomplish here. I've already explained what I meant when I said assuming good faith, but I'll explain again: I assumed that Lionelt was not hounding or deliberately haranguing you. I did not say, at any point, that his edit content was good faith, and I've told him not to edit like that again. So please stop accusing me of saying things I haven't said.
- Also, I posted in WQA because, as a mediator in this case and as an administrator, it's my duty to weigh in on administrative noticeboards, especially when the case is an ongoing discussion I've been participating in for three months. It is not your duty to weigh in on discussions on my talk page that don't concern you. I hope the distinction is clear here. m.o.p 20:33, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I think you are confused about something. Content is never good faith. "Editing in good faith" and "good faith edits" refers to the intent of the editor always. It has nothing to do with content. My assumption that you also felt the edits were appropriate comes from the fact that you did not say they weren't appropriate and clearly feel that his intentions were good. If you'd like to set the record straight on that issue you still can. I've asked you twice now to discuss the actual edits that are the focal point of the thread. Also, I moved the thread to ANI, per the suggestion of the editor who marked it "resolved."Griswaldo (talk) 20:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- See Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#User:Lionelt_--_following_my_past_edits_to_drum_up_support_against_me. FYI, I copy pasted the entire discussion because both you and Collect were critical of my initial post and I thought it was the right thing to do to preserve that criticism in the record of the conversation. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:43, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- In reply to your first paragraph: I'm going to give up now, as it seems you're misunderstanding most of what I type, but you're the one who stated that the content was not good faith (as you said, not appropriate), and I agreed - I referred to his intent in replying to you, and said that I assumed good faith in his motives, not his replies. I can't really say that in a clearer way, so my apologies if it's hard to understand. Also, as I've already said, I've left a message for Lionelt about his edits, so clearly I do not feel they're appropriate. m.o.p 20:57, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I, too, find these double standards vexing.
- Which diff is defamatory?
- I had hitherto thought that people on the article talkpage might like to be aware of potential problems with votestacking on the article talkpage (and 3rr evasion, of course). Would it be permitted to add a link to that list of diffs when it's in a different place, or would you consider that defamatory too? bobrayner (talk) 16:23, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- As I said, the information is not defamatory, but the way it's presented is - we have specific processes available to pursue should one feel there are sockpuppets about. However, calling someone out with the intent of informing the community is overstepping your authority and damaging to the accused's character. Also, there's no way a community discussion about whether or not one editor is a sockpuppet can end in anything other than a sockpuppet investigation anyway.
- So, in closing, please don't bring issues like this to the talk page. If you're concerned about votestacking, take it to the appropriate venue - if your concerns are validated, we'll take measures against said puppets. Cheers, m.o.p 16:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I am very disappointed that it's no longer permissible to raise problems with article-editing on the article talkpage. Previous concerns about sockpuppetry were simply ignored; the difference this time is that it's backed by lots of diffs.
- I'm fairly confident that the people concerned have sufficient technical nous to make checkuser draw a blank. And, let's be entirely honest, within minutes of me creating an SPI, an admin of the right persuasion will be getting an email suggesting that an SPI needs their attention. And SPI does not see offsite coordination by a facebook group &c. Finally, any null result at SPI will be used at the article in much the same way as previous administrative decisions have been. So, I do not believe that an SPI will improve either the article, or the encyclopædia as a whole. bobrayner (talk) 17:08, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- If you don't think the pre-existing methods set in place for situations like this are sufficient, you can always raise that concern at the village pump or suggest a policy revision - however, SPI is the venue for these requests, and the only venue. The talk page can not substitute. m.o.p 17:10, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
76.228.226.122Thank you for blocking the anonymous user, who is being counterproductive and rude. (although I think the block should have been one week, but I guess ok at least)
Can you also please try to hide the edit summaries of these edits if possible?
This and
this
Thanks and regards, talk 05:04, 26 September 2011 (UTC)]
- I'll extend the block if this behaviour continues after the block period is over.
- As for the edit summaries, those don't warrant hiding - I apologize for their content, but they don't meet the criteria of what I should remove. It's best just to ignore them for now. Cheers, m.o.p 05:13, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
- Okay, good to know, if I did nothing wrong, no permanent block will be enforced. The IP does not volunteer on WP as an admin and so the disproportionately out of line comments and threats of his should be ignored. --talk 05:19, 26 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Sounds good. We only hide extremely offensive revisions; milder ones stay in the edit history. Thanks again for bringing this to our attention! Cheers, m.o.p 05:31, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
Email
Jasper Deng (talk) 05:29, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
- Reading. talk) 06:00, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Bad Girls Club
- I've blocked Junebea for 2 days for disregarding warnings. m.o.p 20:30, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks for helping :) Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 21:06, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkback
- And again.Griswaldo (talk) 04:24, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
- And again ... but maybe the last. You can settle this question once and for all. See the talk page.Griswaldo (talk) 06:09, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'm sure I'm not alone in wanting to hear your replies to the last responses posed to you at that page. IMO, I don't know why you went down the road you did, but as far as I can tell you're blatantly misrepesenting facts about your own actions when people are brining concerns to you. You might think that since you closed the RfC the matter is settled, but it is not. You're actions have not made my life any more pleasant in the last few days vis-a-vis trying to deal with Anupam's disruption and I think you owe us all answers. So please revisit this thread and deal with the open questions. Thanks.Griswaldo (talk) 02:19, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
- I invite you to stop asking the same question again and again. This would be appreciated. Thanks, m.o.p 02:33, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Block question
- No, I just block obviously bad-faith accounts on sight. Advertising/spam accounts fall under that category. m.o.p 00:37, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Thanks
- Thank you. I've unlocked the article for whatever may come. If I'm needed again, feel free to let me know. Thanks for the kind words again, m.o.p 05:12, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
reminder
- We're still waiting to see if the user understands COI policy (per Ed's question). I'll prod the user and see if they'll answer. talk) 19:20, 30 September 2011 (UTC)]
Nextel logo deleted
- Mmm, good point. What's the link to the logo in question? m.o.p 01:33, 2 October 2011 (UTC)
Support of Sage City SymphonyYou deleted this page before I had a chance to go back in and add the stuff that you wanted to see, including the links within Wikipedia to important composers such as Lou Callabro (who started this orchestra and cites it in his Wikipedia page) and Susan Hurley whose work we premiered (SC is also mentioned in her Wikipedia entry). (Let alone links about the works we have performed.) And we have a web site at www.sagecitysymphony.org, have existed for over 35 yrs and are a significant cultural resource in the Bennington area such that we receive grants from local, statewide and national foundations.
I broke my wrist last weekend and am doing one-handed pecking so it'll take me a few days to get that loaded in. We are going out for a bit now, but I would appreciate your undeleting the page so that I don't have to re-invent the starting part when I go back in tomorrow to add links. Or delete it entirely so that I can start fresh - at this point either would work as long as I can start some serious work on it tomorrow. I am the webmaster by the way, so I do have access to content and more links.
Thank you, Celia Murray — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.228.127.119 (talk) 14:22, 1 October 2011 (UTC)
- It looks like fixed everything up. Best of luck, m.o.p 01:35, 2 October 2011 (UTC)]
Reply on Deterence's talk page
MA
After the beating you took you deserve a cold one--on me! Thanks for being fair and balanced – Lionel (talk) 03:55, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
- Hey, thanks! Glad to help out. :) m.o.p 03:56, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
Deletion of Mau5trap Recordings
--neocharles (talk) 07:33, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Existence does not equal notability - the subject has to be notable to get a Wikipedia page. m.o.p 12:05, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
Questoin re: AIV
- Addendum, actually, I read it very clearly in WP:VANDNOT: "Uploading or using material on Wikipedia in violation of Wikipedia's copyright policies is prohibited, but is not vandalism unless the user does so maliciously or fails to heed warnings." So if a person fails to heed warnings it is vandalism. My mistake here was that I only warned once. --Muhandes (talk) 12:29, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Eh, technically it is vandalism, but the user seems to be trying to improve the Wikipedia - that desire to help is misplaced in this case, as they seem to think that using copyrighted content is actually better. Weird. For most cases, yes, you should report copyvio to AIV - as long as they've been warned sufficiently. m.o.p 12:42, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- OK, he now did it again and the time stamp is after your last warning. Is it vandalism now? --Muhandes (talk) 12:32, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Yeah, if they're outright ignoring warnings. I've blocked for three days. m.o.p 12:40, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
Classmusic
- Oh, I know. But if somebody's lied to my face about using another account - and to other editors working on the article - I'm not about to let them go without a repercussion or two. I'd like Almost-instinct and Voceditnore to look over the article and fix up anything shifty. Also, I'd like Classmusic to respond to my warning, instead of blanking it and ignoring like they have to the above-named editors.
- So, in short, I know that COI doesn't bar editing, but it's enough of a concern that, given the user's recent behaviour, I'll stop them from doing anything until we've figured things out. This isn't too rouge-y, is it? I didn't hear that. Perhaps he is unaware of the sockpuppet investigation findings. Anyhow it seems that DeltaQuad has also blocked the Classmusic account. I left a note on his page about using the unblock template, but re-iterated that he needs to read the COI and Autobiography guidelines and stick to them scrupulously, if he gets unblocked. In the Opera and Classical Music WikiProjects, we get a lot of articles for performers, ensembles, etc. created by their agents and PR people, and often themselves. In my experience, the best I can hope for after one of these tussles is that they'll edit their article according to the guidelines in future. I have yet to find a single one who has ever contributed anything else to Wikipedia. Their only interest in the project is as a PR tool. Having said that, at least it results (after much red-pencilling from other editors) in one new article on a notable subject that we didn't have before and in a small way redresses the pop culture systemic bias here. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 13:40, 5 October 2011 (UTC)]
Danish election
- Never mind, it's been pulled by another admin. All the best, Jenks24 (talk) 11:03, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry about that! I was busy all day and didn't get your message until now. Thanks for letting me know, though! Cheers, m.o.p 19:51, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
3RRHey there! :)
Well WP:CRYSTAL has wined down, however, there's currently a
The Bad Girls Club (season 7). I have notified the two users [32], [33]. The evidence can be found here. They are having an edit-conflict on how the "Duration of cast" should be presented. Since there's no rules regarding anything like that, and it was made up about a year ago, I couldn't warned them to stop their e/c with anything except the 3RR rule. Maybe they need an admin to tell them to stop, so that's why I came to you :) Thanks, Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 01:17, 6 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Temporary page protection requested. Calabe1992 (talk) 01:29, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
Carla Rushing page deletion
Any further discussion of Sarah Palin will result in a warning, and then a temporary block. Thank you!Hmmm, that might be just a tad excessive. We don't want to suppress all discussion, because that's when the pressure has nowhere to go, and people will go and meatball:ExpandScope.
Since scope is already expanded to international media, forcing scope to expand further might be a bit of a Bad Idea (tm). I recommend Not Going There.
If we're really intent on keeping discussions off of WP, we can always create a wikinews article, and link to the "discuss this article" page.
However, at the moment, people seem to be keeping it down to a dull roar anyway.
--Kim Bruning (talk) 22:44, 6 June 2011 (UTC)
- I think you caught my side point, but I'd like to stress the part I'm trying to tell you to watch out for!
- Long term empirical experience shows that attempts to curtail discussion on wikipedia will not slow down the internet discussion elsewhere (or even on wikipedia). Instead, that's exactly what will feed it more and more steam. So Don't Do That.
- Experience shows that the following approaches work:
- Try to centralize all (spurious) discussion in one place
- keep it as focused on encyclopedic work as possible.
- Treat the new users like new users. They don't know our rules yet. Teach them!
- The foundation would like to see us be more welcoming towards new users. That's a good idea! Let's do that.
- --Kim Bruning (talk) 00:26, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
- And... it went to AN/I (see below) --Kim Bruning (talk) 01:33, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
Edit Notice on Paul RevereYou seem to be asserting some admin right to quench discussion on the talk page by blocking and/or warning with the editnotice that I don't think we have, by policy. IAR doesn't cover stomping on people, no matter how annoying a particular conversation is.
Kelly started a
WP:ANI discussion on this.
Followups probably best on ANI as I am sure others will want to comment. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 01:15, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
- On review - I'm going to blank the edit notice now. If an ANI consensus develops to support restoring it then I'll not object at all, but I think it's novel and enough of a stretch that the default should be "no" unless consensus develops otherwise. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 01:19, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
How does a user find a mentor?
Helen Lucy Burke
Talkback
I did what you asked but the IP reverted it again. PTJoshua (talk) 21:09, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
- You're removing everything I say. Please don't do this. It isn't helpful. --86.45.75.42 (talk) 21:19, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
- I'll talk to them. Sit tight for a second. m.o.p 21:10, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
RE: Deletion of 48gogreen page :ApalejaHello,
Thank you for quick response. I appreciate your reason. but if you do some research you'll find more then 4 or 5 substantial mentions in local or international media - in a newspaper, on a notable website, etc. - to put forward this article.
There is a link on official website of company. http://www.48gogreen.com/static/web
Looking forward for your response. thank you in advance to undelete article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Apaleja (talk • contribs) 08:03, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
Here are some articles from International Press (you can use Google translator-if you use chrome it'll provide option immediately):
http://www.regione.emilia-romagna.it/wcm/cinema/sezioni_primopiano/PrimoPiano/Gadoev.htm
http://domani.arcoiris.tv/girano-un-corto-in-48-ore-e-arrivano-dritti-a-cannes/
http://www.close-up.it/spip.php?article6724
http://www.flashvideo.it/news/9/2578/
http://www.radioemiliaromagna.it/cultura/cinema/videomaker_bolognesi_cannes_corto_ecologico.aspx
Also if YOU HAD READ careful our site you should have see the Press link (those are press links not blogs) with all these web press: http://www.48gogreen.com/static/web
Thank you — Preceding unsigned comment added by Apaleja (talk • contribs) 08:22, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
Final warning On Edit Warring of Efik language disputeIf My Reporting a false article is the reason you want to block me. Then Go ahead and BLOCK me.- I can be Block because I don't care to be part of a web/Encyclopedia of Lies! Although I have contributed anonymously to wikipedia since 2008, I only just signed on a few weeks ago to report an error that I thought was made. But you and your other BIASED administrators have refused to fix this error, instead you're all threatening to block me.
- : According to Wikipedia A false statement/article is removed immediatley it is realized. Yet as am reporting it you all are threatening me for causing disruption.
- You all are saying that I called I called Kwami Slow, Dumb etc. Yet Kwami used the words Ignorance first.
"As for Ukwa, your ignorance is not evidence of anything".
- What is the meaning of IGNORANCE? S/He also said;
"But we cannot have the same article under two names, nor an article on Ibibio-Efik that does not include Ibibio, nor an article on Efik that does not include Efik. A little common sense would be helpful."
- What is meaning of Common sense? Or because Kwami put it very nicely, and mine wasn't? Also I wasn't blanking the Efik page, since I just signed on it takes me a long while to write up an article. According to the statements above, Kwami said I could develop articles on Efik and Ibibio, that is what I was doing when you or your other BIASED administrators returned the articles back to the re-direct.
- : Since wikipedia says a false statement is fixed immediately it is reported, I explained out the mistakes, but Kwami kept insisting that me a native who speaks these languages was wrong and asked for sources. I provided the sources and Kwami Called A brilliant Historian who is a Million times more knowledgable than Kwami on the language;
"utterly ignorant AND not some random idiot who posted a web page".
- Yet you and your other Biased colleges are claiming that am the one attacking Kwami and causing a disruption.
- : Am done with Wikipedia, am going to be taking this issues to the Founder/head by email, once the Ibibio union are involved it might become a legal matter if Wikipedia still continues to portray this misleading information.
I will take this matter to the heads by Email first because they might not be aware of what you all supposed administrators are doing to their image. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ibibiogrl (talk • contribs) 21:41, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
Hi Mops,
Pls read my comments on the ANI page. I think Ibibiogrl means well, she just needs some guidance, and she's not willing to take it from me. — kwami (talk) 22:17, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
- Obviously we would like to have contributors from that part of the world, but Ibibiogrl's record here is so unpromising that I think we need good assurances that something will change in the future. (I would welcome any evidence that Ibibiogrl means well. It is hard to improve the encyclopedia when you have no interest in or respect for its policies. Read her statement above if you are uncertain about that). Mentorship has value only for someone who understands that something has gone wrong and would be willing to work with a mentor. EdJohnston (talk) 22:46, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
- I agree with Ed in this case - I have no grudge against Ibibiogrl, but the editor's attitude, despite multiple pleas for otherwise, remained combative and even insulting at points. If there's a serious expression of guilt and the editor decides they'd like to walk a different path, I'd be happy to help. However, as it is now, I believe the block should stand. m.o.p 22:52, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
- I agree that it would require some indication that she wants help. Just my 2¢ as the person she's most upset with. — kwami (talk) 23:05, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
- For the record, your input is highly appreciated, and very admirable; as the editor in conflict with her, I respect your neutrality and helpfulness. As for Ibibiogrl, we'll see where that goes. Cheers! m.o.p 00:59, 17 June 2011 (UTC)
Can you adopt me i want a new adopter.
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Mr. Pit (2nd nomination)
This isn't personalI belive the AFD on Campaign for "santorum" neologism was closed way to early and am contesting your close.
An editor has asked for a deletion review of Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2011 June 21. Because you closed the deletion discussion for this page, speedily deleted it, or otherwise were interested in the page, you might want to participate in the deletion review. KoshVorlon' Naluboutes Aeria Gloris 12:17, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
James Ball
Thank you for your concern. But I will not be blocked - _I am adding_ wikipedia to adblock. I also feel regret for having donated to the site before, but this will not happen again. Demonuminon (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 23:25, 23 June 2011 (UTC).
Thomas James BallWhy the hell did you delete his page?
Does his suffering mean nothing to you?
Heartless bitch. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.57.206.141 (talk • contribs)
Hey, Master of Puppets, OBVIOUSLY there is a public interested in keeping this article. Restore your deletion. Look at the massive flood of comments regarding your deletion here: http://www.<linkremoved>.com/2011/06/24/the-organized-silencing-of-a-man-publicly-burned-to-death/ and here http://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/i81rw/the_organized_silencing_of_a_man_publicly_burned/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Romerom (talk • contribs) 20:05, 24 June 2011 (UTC)
- Ball HIT A FOUR-YEAR-OLD CHILD, refused to pay child support, called for insurrection, demanded terrorism and violence as a solution, ultimately killed himself (leaving his children without a father) and damaged public property in the process. Even after all that, his incoherent message has mostly been ignored except by the less discriminating people claiming to speak for "men's rights" who haven't bothered to look into the details of his case. (If you really want to damage your cause, adopt a grown man who hits his own four-year-old child and flakes out on his child support as your poster boy.) --Orange Mike | Talk 20:26, 24 June 2011 (UTC) (proud father who has never hit his child in his lifetime)
Hey, "proud father who never hit his child in his lifetime", not everybody is against disciplining their children by spanking. He said his daughter was licking his hand, and he had told her repeatedly to stop. She didn't, and he smacked her. He didn't punch her, or send her to the hospital, or cause any serious injury. Just enough to have his wife baited into calling the police on him by child protective services. As for child support, he paid his child support until the point where he wasn't able to afford it due to an employment issue. Is that such a crazy thing to have happen? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.211.155.1 (talk) 04:28, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
- Again, while I do sympathize with the family and supporters, I am not taking sides, nor do I have any bias in this situation. I am not a feminist, nor am I a misogynist - I am fair and neutral towards all people, whether they be abusive fathers or abused fathers.
- This deletion was enforced solely in keeping with Wikipedia's long-established policies. Mr. Ball's death, while indeed tragic, was not reported throughout the reliable media enough to show his notability.
- I hope this makes sense to all those saddened by Mr. Ball's passing. Cheers, m.o.p 21:04, 24 June 2011 (UTC)
- I understand that you do not think that Mr. Ball's death is something that qualifies as an event and thus deleted said article. I disagree but I do see the merits of your argument. However, you claim to be unbiased in this debate and yet for someone who judges on the letter of the law you break the law and close debate 2.5 days before final judgment is to be rendered. If you have no corner then I ask why make this article a special case that it must be quelled , by your own admission, 2.5 days before any other articles found in similar circumstances are voted upon. I petition you to reinstate and allow the normal course of the discussion continue for the 2.5 days, allow the full opportunity for the pro side to make their case then recluse yourself from the final judgment. This is the only way to ensure transparency so that your claim of neutrality can be believed. CaffOMHW (talk) 03:28, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
- Ahead of things, let me tell you that I appreciate the civility.
- Wikipedia's policies aren't law - they're guidelines. As an administrator, it's my job to apply policy in a way that is completely devoid of bias and benefits the encyclopedia as a whole.
- On a side note, the deletion nomination was closed 1.5 days before the normal time. The page had a whole work week to be saved, rewritten or reworked; however, due to the lack of outside sourcing that carried reliability, there was nothing to keep that wasn't editorialized or unencyclopedic. I would also like to point out that almost every account that voiced their opinion in the 'keep' spectrum had either only edited that page or had edited very little aside from the page. Meanwhile, the deletion argument was put forward by experienced users.
- Though I understand that some people take offense to my early closure, I assure them that one extra day would not have yielded success, and that I took many factors into consideration before closing the discussion.
- Again, thank you for the civility, but I won't be overturning judgment or recreating a deletion discussion at this date. m.o.p 08:17, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
ITNthx for the 2 quick updates of my nom ;)
but also can you see the bolivia one. its got support and very nearly out of the news. we could tack it nearer the border.Lihaas (talk) 22:26, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
Ball closure.
Thank God you are an ambassador for WP, and against censorship, MoP. When Wikipedia fails, and it eventually will, it will largely be because most people don't like to be gamed and would rather not read well cultivated information that is maintained by dishonest brokers who hide behind rules that are never applied in an even-handed manner. The idea that a story is not relevant merely because it is not yet encyclopedic is ridiculous when one sees all the articles which linger on for months or years in the same state. The idea that a story is not relevant because the motivations/justifications of the user are suspect would be grounds for eliminating half the biographical articles in WP. It smacks of an agenda. The appearance of impropriety is as bad as actual impropriety.173.78.20.96 (talk) 04:51, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
- I appreciate the feedback.
- I do my best to maintain an equal, proportionate response in all dealings on Wikipedia; I don't defend things I like, or attack things I dislike, just for the reason of screwing with people. That strikes me as childish. Instead, the most I can do is try to help others understand Wikipedia policies, which are generally mind-bending and hard to grasp (for example, most people ask, "What's the reasoning a war hero isn't considered notable when Donkey Kong is?").
- Maybe one day the policies will change. I mean, most of these were written five, six year ago - the world's changing, and I expect they will with time. But, for now, the guidelines handle what comes in.
- Again, thanks for the input. I appreciate not being personally attacked - it makes it easier to reply. Cheers, m.o.p 05:08, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Natami (2nd nomination)
- The close was thoroughly thought-out, so there's not much ground for me to explore that I haven't already. If you're set on going to DRV, there's nothing I can say which will change your mind, and it's your right to ask for a review. However, current consensus sits at delete (unless the 'keep' side is hiding an ace-in-the-hole reliable source or something). Cheers, m.o.p 04:55, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- So, what about the reliable sources we already brought up in the AfD such as this interview in Amiga Future or this news article from nr2.ru? We've already established that Amiga Future isn't sponsored by a hardware company as one !voter there falsely claimed. On a related note, did you discount the !votes from individuals making misleading statements or those claiming there were "no independent reliable sources"? (I could tell you how that !voter happened to show up there, but he isn't going to like it.) I could also link to forum posts by another delete !voter who showed up there who was very much into a "delete at any cost" mode because he doesn't like "amiga clones". --Tothwolf (talk) 05:11, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- Those sources were there before the previous close, and I, like the previous administrator, do not think they're strong enough.
- I've already covered what kind of rationale was discounted and what wasn't.
- As for your last statement about other editors - I'm not quite sure what your point is, but I don't think it's relevant. As I said, I've discounted any rationale that does not apply policy.
- Cheers, m.o.p 05:33, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- Uh, no...nr2.ru was only brought up in the second AfD. Strong enough is also an argument to be made in a !vote, not a closing statement. --Tothwolf (talk) 05:56, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- My apologies, the Russian source was indeed added after the first AfD. Still too shaky for a stand-alone article, though. Cheers, m.o.p 13:42, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- To follow up on my earlier comment, while I don't really want to get into an "X did this because of Y" sort of thing with regards to this AfD, there were a number of delete !voters who showed up there for personal reasons/vendettas/bias and/or who made false statements about sources. Despite the template at the top of the AfD, the second AfD also didn't suffer from the forum canvassing that the first did. One of the delete !voters actually came by way of the forum and first AfD and was trolling because of his personal dislike of Amiga clones. --Tothwolf (talk) 15:33, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
If they have valid, policy-based rationale, their personal motivation doesn't matter, solely for the reason that an encyclopedia based on liking or disliking things would crumble instantly. I'm sure some of the deletion crew could just-as-easily blame keep voters for being enthusiasts and fans of Natami - but that's not important. As a result, making allegations of personal bias is unnecessary. The help is appreciated, but there's nothing I can do with the information. m.o.p 15:39, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- It matters when someone makes false statements and tries to hide what they are doing behind policy. As for keeps, quite a number appear to be from well established editors who don't appear to be all that interested in Amiga topics. As for myself, I wasn't even aware of NatAmi until the first AfD and didn't even !vote in the first AfD since I thought it was pretty obvious it was headed for a no-consensus close. --Tothwolf (talk) 15:58, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- Again, if their rationale is grounded in policy, their motivation does not matter, simply because it's impossible to discern someone's intent through text, and because the second someone accuses another of favoritism/malicious intent the entire argument turns into a bunch of people shouting, "You're lying." That's why there's nothing I can do with your information in this case. Cheers, m.o.p 16:02, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- Apologies to you, M.O.P., for addressing another editor on your talk page, but I just wanted to jump in this conversation. Tothwolf, with no prejudice against you at all I strongly suggest you take this in perspective. There have been two AFDs and an ANI report over this article. The way you treated me on my talk page threatening DRV because I was a new administrator was, as I feel it, borderline harassing. That you canvassed two other administrators to talk to me was also a below the belt move. In good faith, I relisted the debate and it has closed again as delete. I strongly suggest taking the advice at WP:DGAF into account here and let the issue go. I don't think there will be a problem recreating this article, even pulling the old content back from the deletion log, when the subject has better sources in a broader community. I hold no ill feeling toward you, this is purely honest advice.--v/r - TP 16:46, 27 June 2011 (UTC)]
- TParis, while you are correct in that this talk page is not the place for this, because you brought this up here and you seem to value honest feedback, I'll address this here.
In no way did I ever threaten you with DRV, let alone because you were a new administrator (discussion in question). I did however upon noticing that you had passed RFA only days earlier decide it best not to press you further in public and instead sent you this short email: "Sigh. I just noticed you just finished your RFA. The Natami AfD was a bad AfD to pick to close right out of the gate. It is likely to end up at DRV and given the magazine I mentioned, overturned. I really wish you would reconsider your close. You might have noticed I didn't even !vote in the AfD itself, however I did point out a number of things and took a couple of people to task for making false or misleading statements." That is the only email I sent you about the matter and not once did I ever threaten you with DRV. Please get your facts correct before making statements such as this because such mistakes can have a negative effect on others.
After you replied expressing your disagreement over the sources (and implied that I might be biased because I sometimes contribute to computing-related articles) I asked a number of other administrators (way more than two, actually) what they thought of the AfD's close because I wanted unbiased feedback to see if I was somehow totally off-track before I initiated a DRV. The feedback I got was fairly unanimous in that the close was problematic. Before I had a chance to draft a DRV however, you reverted your own close and relisted the AfD from scratch with a new listing. In no way did I ever "canvass" anyone to "talk to you" and if others did contact you directly, they did so at their own discretion and for their own reasons.
There indeed have been two AfDs, the first of which you closed (although one could also argue that the second was merely a relist of the first). The AN/I "discussion" you also mentioned wasn't really over this article or the first AfD, it was an attempt by someone to game AN/I when they were unable to bully me on their talk page. Please be more careful making these sort of blanket statements in the future because as I mentioned above such statements can cause problems for others. --Tothwolf (talk) 17:38, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- You're email was exactly like your reply here. You like to make threats without actually making them: "such statements can cause problems". There is very little way your email cannot be interpreted as anything other than a threat of DRV because I am a new administrator. This is all I'll say on M.O.P.'s talk page as I came here to offer honest advice and you don't seem interested in it. If you'd like to discuss further with me, you know where to find my talk page.--v/r - TP 17:51, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- TParis, in no way did I ever make an implied threat. While I may be a little blunt and abrasive at times (or maybe I'm just an assume good faith in that you simply misremembered the facts I outlined above when you made this statement here. It is easy to forget a few details here or there and not everyone maintains detailed notes for this sort of stuff (I do, for a number of reasons, although I didn't always).
As far as honest advice goes, this is a two-way street and I gave you my opinion as well. If you choose to ignore and discount it, so be it, but I'd suggest you be much more careful in the future and get your facts correct before you make the sort of statement you made above. Such statements can and do cause problems for other editors. Who knows, it may just be that you've not been around long enough yet to have witnessed people blocked or punished in some way because someone else didn't have their facts together. (If you do decide you want to continue this discussion, perhaps we should take this elsewhere.) --Tothwolf (talk) 18:14, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
]
Heaton Park Hebrew Congregation (2nd nomination)
Natami
Thought you might want to know
- (talk page stalker) That's just the same little ideological website which has been pushing for the "Martyrdom of St. Thomas Ball" attention since day one; no actual new coverage. --Orange Mike | Talk 14:34, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
- I guess I should also mention that the way I found it, was that someone tried submitting it to Fark.com last night. The admins did not greenlight it, so that particular submission/thread did not go to the main Fark page, appearing only to those with Totalfark accounts. The submission said something like "Wikipedia deletes burning man" (I'm not at a computer with TF access so I might not have that exactly right). It might, theoretically, based on the submission, be considered some sort of off-site canvassing (it was submitted with the asinine tag). For what its worth, the thread went uncommented, so I don't think that particular attempt garnered any support. I just wanted to drop a line in case that this was just the first drop of a large storm. If I see anything else, I'll drop a line here. Umbralcorax (talk) 15:58, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
Wiki ad
4chan raid
Thomas James Bell, new information
- (reliable sources. --Orange Mike | Talk 13:33, 30 June 2011 (UTC)]
Happy Birthday
![](//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3d/Nuvola_apps_cookie.svg/50px-Nuvola_apps_cookie.svg.png)
Just a happy Birthday message to you, Master of Puppets, from the Wikipedia Birthday Committee! Have a great day!
Monterey Bay (talk) 02:00, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
User:BillyMoses
Natami
AFD
- Your input is appreciated, though there's nothing I can do with it but take a note. If you'd like, you can weigh in at the next AfD(s), when/if they arise. Cheers, m.o.p 19:42, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
Dr Myko San – Health from Mushrooms
- I'd be happy to help! However, I'm currently away from a computer (typing this on my phone), so I'll have to check in on the 11th of July. Does that sound okay? m.o.p 15:40, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
- wp:NODEADLINE :-) LeadSongDog come howl! 15:48, 7 July 2011 (UTC)]
From a former Wikipedian
-71.234.90.0 (talk) 04:50, 8 July 2011 (UTC)
- Hey, thanks so much! I'm not sure who you are, but I really appreciate the sentiment. Hope all is well! m.o.p 20:49, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
Deletion review for Thomas James Ball
DRV comment
DRV
Could you please overturn the deletion of these files per File:Signature of Amitabh Bachchan.svg and File:Signature of Zakir Hussain.svg:
- File:Signature of Vishwanathan Anand.svg
- File:Signature of Vijay Mallya.svg
- File:Signature of Venkaiah Naidu.svg
- File:Signature of Sudeep Bandhopadhyay.svg
- File:Signature of Sonia Gandhi.svg
- File:Signature of Somnath Chatterjee.svg
- File:Signature of Ratan Tata.svg
- File:Signature of Kumar Mangalam Birla.svg
- File:Signature of Rajeev Shukla.svg
- File:Signature of Raj Babbar.svg
- File:Signature of Rahul Gandhi.svg
- File:Signature of Priyanka Vadra.svg
- File:Signature of P. T. Usha.svg
- File:Signature of Narendra Modi.svg
- File:Signature of Nandan Nilekani.svg
- File:Signature of Manish Tewari.svg
- File:Signature of Leander Paes.svg
- File:Signature of Lata Mangeshkar.svg
- File:Signature of Kumar Mangalam Birla.svg
- File:Signature of Karia Munda.svg
- File:Signature of Kapil Sibal.svg
- File:Signature of Kamal Nath.svg
- File:Signature of K. Kamraj.svg
- File:Signature of Jaya Bachchan.svg
- File:Signature of Gautam Gambhir.svg
- File:Signature of Brinda Karat.svg
- File:Signature of Bharatsinh Solanki.svg
- File:Signature of Bhairon Singh Shekhawat.svg
- File:Signature of B. K. Birla.svg
- File:Signature of Azim Premji.svg
- File:Signature of Arun Jaitely.svg
- File:Signature of Aishwarya Rai Bachchan.svg
- File:Signature of Abhishek Manu Singhvi.svg
- File:Signature of Abhishek Bachchan.svg
- File:Signature of Sting.svg
- File:Signature of Br. L. D. Lobo.svg
- File:Signature of VJ Rannvijay Singh Singha.svg
Diligent07Appears to be less than new. See User talk:Raoulduke25 where he states that this is a deliberate series of edits.
- Can you please help defend our collective effort of including the obscene middle-finger incident in the Cheney Mason article? It should be maintained in the article for public interest, etc. Please see the Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard#Cheney Mason discussion page and include your thoughts in favor of having the content remain in the interests of the public, etc
[8], [9] and even imputation that an editor has a connection with the person [10]. He has been on since April, and started off as being experienced on WP IMHO. Kindly keep an eye out please. Especially for any sign of a real "collective effort"? Such as [11]? Cheers. Collect (talk) 11:36, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
A cookie for you!
Keep up the good work defending the "Wiki" against genre warriors. Thanks for the help! talk) 17:31, 13 July 2011 (UTC)]
Hello. You have a new message at Lionelt's talk page.
Semi protection
OK, this thing with the militant atheism page is impossibleThese guys are incredible... I could dig up diffs to show you how they revert and wikilawyer even the SMALLEST attempt to move the article closer to NPOV. But that would take a long time for you to read. How about I show you this instead:
These guys are utterly without scruples. Who in their right mind would remove the NPOV dispute tag when heated arguments have been raging for weeks and NO moves whatsoever have been made to fix the article? Oh right, that would be someone in their right mind who is running a propaganda platform.
Anyway... I wanted to ask your advice on what to do. These guys are impossible to work with. Most of the other editors have given up and refuse to put this page on their watchlist. So what to do then? Request formal mediation? Articles for deletion? Something else?
Me and the other editors would like to see the page replaced with a disambiguation page... since literally ALL the content has already been covered (better) in Criticism of atheism, State atheism and New Atheism.
Obhave (talk) 13:21, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
- Hello User:Master of Puppets. I noticed this conversation and thought I might add that an NPOV policy. Obhave (talk) 13:11, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
- One more thing, m.o.p... my opponents are currently twisting your words to make it look as if you were scolding user:Mann_jess all along. Obhave (talk) 14:42, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
]
User:Jasper Deng page protection
- No worries! m.o.p 19:35, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
Is there a procedure for brutal uncollaborated editing with a destructive intent?I noticed that you recently had problems with proposed brutal editing by Peter S Strempel. Although he has been more sensible on your project in the end (possibly because of your administrator status?) he has not been so with regard to the astrology project pages to which he made a similar 'razor-promise'. Could you please see this Afd request which is one of three he made for major 'history of astrology' articles within the last hour, with a promise on another important page that any comment which is not refrences within 7 days will be removed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Babylonian_astrology
Is there anything that can be done about this officially to stop him wreaking havoc with content whilst he knows that the small group of editors providing content on these pages are already stretched to the limit trying to keep up with what needs to be done? I don't understand what drives some people to want to edit WP like this, but I think it is entriely the result of his ego-stress that when he proposed an edit for a passage, no one favoured it. Hope you can help or advise Zac Δ talk 01:15, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks! assume good faith; I believe that Peter is simply trying to help improve Wikipedia. While his methods may be lacking in some areas, he has displayed a pretty decent grasp on the policies he's trying to enforce.
- However, I agree that he shouldn't be making any changes if they're not discussed with the community first. Do you mind pulling up a few diffs of where he went against consensus? I'll approach him with your concern then. Thanks, m.o.p 03:57, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
- Actually there hasn't been any significant content dispute with Peter. He proposed a change to a section edit which wasn't a very good proposition and a few editors commented but without rancur, and I added a new section post immediately afterwards to point out the proiposed change would contradict with how the definition was given correctly at a later point in the article, outlining how I understood WP policy expected the main astrology article to pull its own content together, along with its summarised content from its daughter pages. Peter never responded to this but other editors started working in that direction immediately. Then, without further discussion or comment, Peter came back four days later to announce an intention to take his 'word razor' to all unreferenced assertions on the main astrology page, its sub-pages, and the portal page itself, to ensure his perceived disagreement was not circumvented in pages he viewed as content forks (I'm still not sure what he means by that). My response to that can be seen - a perfectly reasonable request for him to do what he felt was most productive, but consider that citation-tagging was the way to go. I also placed comments on his talk-page, which you can read if you are interested. That he erupted into a frenzy of AfD requests last night says something, I think, about his unwillingness to discuss and engage in other views. Most of his posts appear as new section declarations that don't appear to have considered the responses other editors give him.
- I've summarised this in the ANI request Dougweller started. The deletion requests were a step too far IMO, and I'm concerned that Peter would spring to such drastic measures in reaction to what he perceives to be me not allowing him to do what he wants to do. I'll be away for a few days so I'm tying up my WP activity now. That underlines my concern that he intends to take such drastic action with only one week's notice of intent. Thanks for looking into this. It would be good if something could be proposed to stop huge problems before they occur. 10:35, 22 July 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zachariel (talk • contribs
)
- One last request. I have just noticed that a related complaint, which is quite serious but has been sidetracked (deliberatly IMO) by Peter's suggestions that I have prevented him from doing what he wants, has been collapsed as "going nowehere" by an unsympathetic editor.
- "Its ben here several days and no admin has even sniffed at a block or ban - clearly you're not going to get admin action. So this should got to WP:DR or WP:RFCU if you want to take it further. I've boldly collapsed this, though I won't be surprised if someone uncollapses it"
- If you can find the time could you at least take a look at that related problem, and consider uncollapsing it, because the issues are serious and have gone beyond the point where Dispute resolution are appropriate. I will be away and have nothing more to add, but the problems identified still remain. Zac Δ talk 10:58, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
What to do?
- I've started a threat at ANI. Those AfDs are purely pointy and if no one objects I'll close them. talk) 06:11, 22 July 2011 (UTC)]
- Replied there. m.o.p 08:20, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
Talk Page on Militant Atheism - Introduction Section
- The update is appreciated, thanks very much. I've been dealing with life for the past two weeks, but I'll be back to close that discussion tonight or tomorrow. Thanks again, m.o.p 22:03, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
- Just bringing this up again, given the current state of this section. I believe the discussion will be archived automatically if not closed. I'm sorry if I sound pushy with you having a lot on your plate of late. If you would prefer, I could alert User:Fastily instead. Turnsalso (talk) 16:55, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
ITN
- I knew that tab I closed had unfinished business on it... thanks. 2008 University of Central Arkansas shootings is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.
The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2008 University of Central Arkansas shootings(2nd nomination) until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on good quality evidence, and our policies and guidelines.
Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article.
talk 14:00, 1 September 2011 (UTC)]
Hey
- Done! Both your userpage and the transcluded page are protected. Cheers, « ₣M₣ » 04:09, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Restored. m.o.p 05:21, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
]
User talk:Joshua the Independent
- My mistake - my block script auto-filled the edit summary. The block was issued due to the user's newfound will to disrupt Wikipedia intentionally. Their previous contributions are welcome, but this behaviour necessitates administrative action. m.o.p 21:52, 13 September 2011 (UTC)
Say hi to your imaginary girlfriend for me
- Well, I do love getting hate mail. Thanks for the laugh! Cheers, m.o.p 05:17, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
...further to the above lovely note, I weighed in on Calabe's talk page - there appears to be more confusion here than at first glance. bou·le·var·dier (talk) 05:19, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
Sorry to drop by again, but Silentsizzlingsausage (talk · contribs) would appear to be a duck. bou·le·var·dier (talk) 05:31, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
- No, it's not an issue! Thanks for the note, blocked. Cheers, WP:SPI. Thanks again, m.o.p 06:13, 14 September 2011 (UTC)]
I have to admit ...
- See the above section. The link is apparently a very subtle spam link that Calabe is removing, and socks are springing up to revert him. Swarm u / t 10:20, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
Moderation
- Alright, I'll make my way back. Thanks for letting me know! m.o.p 05:18, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
User:12.139.96.228
- To be honest, this case is perplexing. Half of this user's edits are constructive (mostly sourced), the other half aren't sourced - and the user won't reply to anybody. I'm also too busy to go through every edit and confirm whether or not it's good. I forgot about this for a while - I'll think about it tonight and figure something out for tomorrow. Thanks for reminding me! m.o.p 05:18, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
Whoops
- Whoops! Must not have been looking when I ran my block script. Thanks for letting me know, I've reblocked them for a far shorter (technically, an infinitely shorter) time. Cheers, m.o.p 22:58, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
Ashleyleggat404
- You're fully right in that the blanking policy covers indefinite blocks. I've removed the user's talk page rights as a result. Thanks again! m.o.p 00:28, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkback
Moderation
- If you look into this please consider whether Anupam's actions on the talk page and the entry itself are violations of WP:OWN. He's been driving off those he disagrees with by bludgening them to death with argument and heavily policing the entry claiming that there is a consensus written in stone despite many dissenting voices. Others have taken to simply calling him "the article's owner." I have had enough of this behavior personally and left him a message about it on his talk page. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:52, 20 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Dear User:Master of Puppets, the above user has misrepresented the occurrences at the article. I started another Introduction discussion at the article's talk page but User:Griswaldo has chosen to edit war over a second NPOV tag, despite the fact that one already exists in the article. He has done so despite the fact that the Introduction is being discussed in a peaceful manner at the talk page, in violation of your injunction: "We've only got consensus on this proposed versions (and loose consensus at that) - please do not attempt to subvert said consensus by making undiscussed changes." I have posted a message on his talk page about this behaviour. Nevertheless, I also do not wish to argue with the user personally and would prefer if you could go back to moderating the discussion between the two parties at the talk page. Thanks for taking the time to read this message. With regards, AnupamTalk 20:58, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- His "injunction?" Adding a neutrality tag to a specific sentence which an editor disputes the neutrality of is hardly "subverting the consensus by making undiscussed changes." Please stop wikilawyering to get your way. There is a growing consensus against your position regarding this article in general as well, despite your aggressive policing of the entry and the talk page. See ]
- I just thought that I would mention that User:Griswaldo, after seeing this message, just now decided to comment in the discussion rather than edit war against consensus further. Thanks for taking the time to read this message. With regards, AnupamTalk 21:51, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- "Edit war against consensus further?" My comment there has nothing to do with your message here. I've made three total edits to this entry ever. One was a copy edit in June, another was reverting an IP vandal, and the third was the revert of your Ownership edit. Please do not insinuate that I'm a edit warrior on this page. It is disingenuous.Griswaldo (talk) 22:08, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Thank you all for approaching me with your concerns.
- Obviously, I do not support Anupam - this is because I'm remaining a neutral third party, and, therefore, can't take sides. However, Griswaldo: please keep in mind that I did ask for all discussion to take place on the talk page. Why not just add your complaints to the talk page? It would have been much easier to discuss.
- I do agree that adding a NPOV tag, while slightly redundant, isn't horrible, but your intent seems to have been to stir discussion on that particular section, discussion that would be much more appropriate on the talk page.
- As for your and Snalwibma's concerns of Anupam trying to 'own' the article, I'm curious as to what you two mean; what 'delusions'?
- Also, Griswaldo, I don't think Anupam meant to insinuate you are an edit warrior (though this is just my take) - rather, they wanted to add the note that you've weighed in on discussion. m.o.p 22:10, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- your intent seems to have been to stir discussion on that particular section - No that's incorrect. I didn't add this tag, I simply reverted Anupam's attempt to own the page when he removed it. I agreed with JimWae's addition of the tag and found Anupam's removal to be unwarranted and a display of ownership.Griswaldo (talk) 22:16, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Note that, for all intents and purposes, reverting somebody is adding whatever is included in your edit, regardless of who put it there first. You revert a removal, you're agreeing with the edition you're reverting to - simple.
- And, if you agreed with JimWae, then we go back to what I was saying earlier - say so on the talk page. Two of you agree? Great! That's closer to consensus. But it means nothing if you express your support by reverting removals.
- Again, as I've asked multiple times, please stop saying that Anupam is owning anything without giving me evidence of it first. m.o.p 22:22, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Dear User:Master of Puppets, thank you for your reply to all of us. The reason User:Snalwibma stated that I was attempting to "own" the article was because I reverted an undiscussed removal from the article, which not only myself, but two other users objected to. In fact, two anonymous IP Addresses also reverted User:Snalwibma. I was open to compromise on the issue and stated that I would accept User:Turnsalso's compromise on the issue. I kindly request you to look at that discussion yourself and get an honest reading of it. Also, the only reason I removed the second NPOV tag was because there was already one present, which I did not remove. I only reverted the addition of a second NPOV tag once and even explained myself on the talk page. When I went to the talk page, I found rude accusations and an anti-collaborative spirit, despite the fact that I have been nothing but polite. I hope this helps. With regards, AnupamTalk 22:25, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry - I know I should not rise to the bait, but I have to object to the comment "The reason User:Snalwibma stated that I was attempting to 'own' the article was because I reverted an undiscussed removal ..." How dare Anupam presume to know what is in my mind! The reason I describe Anupam's attitude to the article as one of ownership is because that is how s/he behaves - "policing" every edit, pronouncing on whether s/he "accepts" or "rejects" it, peremptorily reverting anything s/he does not like, without discussion, presuming to know others' motives, and judging them as fit/unfit to contribute to the article. This has been going on for weeks, if not months. It is impossible to discuss the content of the article, let alone improve the text, because everything is filtered through the approval/disapproval of the article's self-appointed guardian, Anupam. tendentious or disruptive when they bring up certain issues, even when they are clearly in the majority. That is not collaborative. I stopped editing the article heavily because of those issues. I don't have any delusions that my opinion is worth more than anyone else's here, but I would think that the large number of established, experienced editors who are all saying there's a problem, would indicate something. — Jess· Δ♥ 19:45, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
Please reconsider your full protection of Militant atheist
- In case you didn't notice, I asked that people think twice about pointing fingers at each other. If you'd like to start a sockpuppetry investigation, let me know, and we can take that avenue - however, don't accuse other editors of ownership without substance. If you think Anupam is trying to own things, give me something. Diffs, edits, anything. I'll check it out for you, but right now, baseless accusations are not what I'm looking for.
- Also, notice that I protected the article with your edit being the last one. How is that validating the very person you've been reverting?
- The protection will stay until consensus is reached. m.o.p 22:19, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Because protection is what he wants quite clearly. He's stalling conversation and shouting down people on the talk page, where, if you have a look, you'll see he's clearly in the minority. Because of your "injunction" as he calls it, he also claims that no matter how many people agree with a certain change it is illegitimate. I'll be happy to gather some diffs, but my first message to you above was to please look into the situation carefully before acting on it. Did you do that and come to the conclusion that I'm wrong or did you not head that request? Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:29, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Yes, I did heed your request. I don't see any ownership behaviour from Anupam, though, being involved in multiple disputes, I didn't have the time to read every last word on the page, so you're free to provide evidence. However, from what I can see, Anupam's last proposal was supported by the majority - not to count (and I don't mean to imply that I decide where consensus lies by looking at pure numbers), but from looking at pure supports versus opposes, eight people (nine including Anupam) support while four oppose. How does that make Anupam's views a minority? m.o.p 22:37, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- It depends on what view you are talking about. The current RFC on the introduction is something that most people don't even want to engage because most people think this very entry should be split up and integrated into other entries. I reluctantly engaged the RfC just now myself. The last time the more serious question about the entry was asked, several of the new commentators were not around, and there was "no consensus" found because the opposing side was chalk full of SPAs and editors with a view that is outright hostile to atheism (which is a legitimate view to hold, but it is a minority view). Let me find you some diffs.Griswaldo (talk) 22:43, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- User:Griswaldo, that is exactly the issue: you do not want to collaborate with other users on the talk page, which is why you were reluctant to participate in the current RfC. Moreover, there were several SPA's on the side of the opposition as well, including WP:NPOV. In addition, the split was again recently discussed and the specific case to do so was refuted by several editors. As such, there was no consensus for it. I hope this helps. With regards, AnupamTalk 22:52, 20 September 2011 (UTC)]
- No. You are trying to write an article that violates WP:SYNTH because it conflates New Atheism with oppressive communist regimes and their histories of violence. That's hardly NPOV. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:59, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
Hi m.o.p., as someone who occasionally looks at that page (and then washes my hands), I just want to compliment you as having done the right thing in full protecting. By way of unsolicited advice to the involved editors, the best thing they could do is to allow The Wrong Version to sit there a good long time, and devote their energy to other things. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:54, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
]
Yes, please reconsider your full protection of
WP:RS—deserve protection against misinformed reverts. Thanks Geremia (talk) 16:12, 22 September 2011 (UTC)]
Diffs of
- I'm not really sure where the ownership is here; nowhere in our policies is it stated that a user can't promote their RFC on the subject talk page. If it's ongoing and they'd like to move it to the forefront, what's wrong with that? More so, some of your summaries seem inaccurate - in that last diff, you state that Anupam is removing images, yet I only see Anupam adding an image (the peace dove that's at the top of the page). Also, you use repeating examples. m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Well clearly the last diff was wrong. Thanks for the vote of confidence. There are no repeat examples nor inaccurate summaries, just a mistaken copy paste of the second to last diff to the last position as well. I have fixed it. Cheers.
- Using "consensus claims from one RfC to reject changes made to article content
- Same as above. Using the "consensus" bludgeon to get his way. Please note that clearly we ought to edit by consensus, but this consensus is highly disputed, and IMO not there in the first place. The real problem is the way in which Anupam decides to use it like a trump card to remove changes he doesn't like. Ask yourself if all changes post "consensus" have been removed or just the ones Anupam decided he wanted removed.
Master of Puppets do you need more diffs or is this enough?Griswaldo (talk) 23:31, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Well I need more diffs because your "evidence" so far looks like a desperate attempt to incriminate an editor who has been very successful in persuading his colleagues to adopt his proposals. Anupam has presented his proposals, argued the merits and persuaded many editors. Anything you want to tell us about why you're having difficulty doing likewise? – Lionel (talk) 06:02, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- I don't see this is as conclusive evidence, either. And, it should be said - if people are editing against established consensus, then people are free to re-evaluate consensus, but edit-warring against it doesn't make much sense. m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- If not ownership then what is this - [28], [29], [30]? He removes two RfCs started by another editor, and revolving around the question that many of us actually find to be the fundamental question to answer regarding the entry. Then he edit wars to keep these RfCs off the page, claiming again to have some sort of authority stemming from your prior actions. If you aren't willing to do something here I'm going to another administrator and I'm going to ask for your initial "consensus," your strong arm administrating, and your lack of action here to be reviewed as well. Thanks.Griswaldo (talk) 17:08, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Anupam has already apologized for reverting those RfC additions, and we've moved past it. He also didn't claim to have administrative authority, but was waiting for my approval. We've cleared this up, it's not an issue. So no, I'm not going to take any action (as I've said here and on ANI). Now, if you'd like to threaten me and tell me that, since I'm not cooperating with your wills, you'll go to another administrator, that's fine - as I've said, you can seek outside opinions - but remember to keep a cool head, because borderline threats are not appreciated. m.o.p 21:49, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- It was not a threat, "borderline" or otherwise. You are conveniently ignoring a growing number of voices who are all saying the same thing - there is an ownership problem here. The deletion issue has not been "cleared up" as far as I'm concerned. Whenever it is mentioned Anupam insists that he did not "unilaterally" delete the RfCs from the page, which is a blatant distortion, since that is exactly what he did. He continues to act as a policeman at the page, and yes he does continue to cite your authority. Did you bother to read the many diffs I posted above in the second two sections? I will quote three random examples from those I provided for you if you want.
- When he first deleted the two RfCs he wrote: "rv - see discussion with reviewing administrator; approval needed to start another RfC while one is already occurring."
- When he deleted a fact tag that JimWae put into the lede: "rv excessive tagging per talk; tag is already extant in header; do not subvert previous consensus but gain consensus for potential additions per administrative notice"
- When he rejected another recent change to the entry: "accepted edits by User:Jkhwiki; rv removal of longstanding referenced content - see discussion on talk page and gain consensus for action per administrative injunction"
- In talk page comments and in edit summaries he consistently does the same thing. He refers to your authority, either directly or indirectly through your "notice" or your "injunction" as he likes to call it. I never said the claimed to have administrative authority, I said that he's using your authority, by way of your comments, such as the closure of the AfD to bully people. Do you deny that he citing your comments, because if you do then I must have fabricated those quotes. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:32, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
If you say "If you don't do A, then I'm going to go and do B", that's a threat. Anyway, that's not the issue - we've already covered all the issues with the RfC reverting, and Anupam won't do it again. Why keep raising hell over it?
We've already covered everything you bring up. And no, I'm not denying anything. I'm just saying this, and it's very simple: I don't think there has been any blatant ownership here. That's my judgment. If you disagree, again, feel free to raise this with another administrator or on ANI. m.o.p 23:12, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Regarding the new RFC, I still think there has not passed yet too much time since the last discussion about splitting the article. As far as I knew, repeating these sorts of debates (like splitting, deleting, renaming) before a larger amount of time has passed (like 6 months) is usually discouraged. And as others have also argued earlier, even if having multiple RFCs is possible, it's not very useful, and the new RFC seems to discourage further discussion about improving the lead introduction. So preventing multiple RFCs (and also a RFC about an issue debated not too long ago) does not look to me like evidence of bad faith intentions. Cody7777777 (talk) 21:37, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Cody, would you mind linking me to the previous RfC on splitting? m.o.p 21:49, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- The previous attempt to split the article can be found here. Cody7777777 (talk) 21:55, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Response
Yes, it does. Thanks, m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Dear User:Master of Puppets, I just noticed that User:Binksternet started another RfC while a current one is occurring. Is this appropriate? I reverted the addition motioning for one until your response is confirmed. If it is acceptable, then I apologize and will revert my edit. I look forward to your response. With regards, AnupamTalk 15:14, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'll form my reply on ANI. m.o.p 17:12, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- When you do please take into account my comment just above, regarding Anupam's edit warring to remove talk page comments (namely these RfCs) posted by others on the talk page. If you still don't think this is WP:OWN then clearly other administrators are needed here.Griswaldo (talk) 17:15, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Dear User:Griswaldo, how is going to a neutral mediator to address the issue owning the article? I acknowledge that the article is in dispute and as a result, I am asking an administrator for advice in this matter, NOT handling things on my own, as you have done by edit warring. Your WP:OWN allegations have not only been dismissed by this administrator, but by several other users, including, User:Lionelt, User:Cody7777777 and User:NYyankees51. Thanks, AnupamTalk 17:27, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- In reply to Griswaldo: reverting the RfCs was a mistake, but we've cleared that up now. As Anupam has stated at ANI, the intent was not to discourage discussion. If you think my judgment is compromised, you're welcome to seek another administrator's input. m.o.p 21:04, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- And as further evidence of WP:OWN, see this. Anupam adds a comment to everything that anyone else says, as if he/she is the owner of the article and everyone else is a subordinate contributor. This particular instance is pretty benign (although it clutters up the talk page with an unnecessary comment that merely says "I agree"), but I do think that Anupam at least needs to learn how to avoid giving the appearance of thinking he/she owns the article, and to desist from chipping in and saying the same thing over and over again, which almost makes meaningful discussion impossible! SNALWIBMA ( talk - contribs ) 17:31, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- While the input is appreciated, as I've said before, making allegations of ownership without hard evidence isn't going to get us anywhere. Anupam is not stopping others from discussing changes or forming consensus, and that's all that matters - refactoring the talk page or commenting on an issue is not against policy, and I'm not going to tell someone to stop editing because it "looks" like they're doing something wrong. As said above, you're welcome to request another administrator's insight if you wish. m.o.p 21:04, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
COIHi
you've helped me out before, with a conflict of interest problem, so having much more experience than me on wikipedia, I thought I would be bold enough to ask again for help.
Similar problem to last, User_talk:Hobbycraft is editing the HOBBYCRAFT article and making changes that aren't citably right. I think the user name suggest and history suggests a conflict of interest case.
Can you please, speak to them addressing this issue.
Thank you very much for your help.
Markcoulter50 (talk) 22:27, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
- I've blocked that user for username violations. Thanks a lot for letting me know! Keep up the great work, m.o.p 23:00, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkbackcausa sui (talk) 18:47, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Hello. You have a new message at causa sui's talk page. causa sui (talk) 20:54, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Problematic editing on militant atheism
- I hope it's not considered defamatory to repeat the final line: "I merely present the diffs above, and let others draw their own conclusions. Is this a duck? Does it quack? You decide.". Unfortunately, the concerned community no longer has that opportunity. What did you decide on their behalf? Does this duck quack, or not? bobrayner (talk) 15:42, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- It's not your wording, it's the very idea of it. Going to what's allegorically a public place and shouting, "Hey, everybody, this man is a criminal!" is one step below blatantly forming a lynch mob. As I've said, I have no problem with your wording or evidence, just your location of choice. Wikipedia is not, unfortunately, a democracy - letting others draw their conclusions and voice their opinions is not how a sockpuppet investigation works.
- So yes, please don't go restoring any of that section. We're not discussing editors, we're discussing the content they produce. Anything else has a sub-board to deal with it (like WP:SPI).
- Hopefully that clears things up! I'll be happy to answer any more questions should you have them. Cheers, m.o.p 15:48, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Hello User:Bobrayner, I noticed the section you created on the militant atheism talk page. If you do feel the way you do about User:Turnsalso and the anonymous IP Addresses, you can take this up with WP:SPI. Thanks, AnupamTalk 15:52, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
Are you kidding my MoP? Above your write: Going to what's allegorically a public place and shouting, "Hey, everybody, this man is a criminal!" is one step below blatantly forming a lynch mob. AND We're not discussing editors, we're discussing the content they produce. Yet you call this edit by Lionelt "good faith," at WQA? MoP, I would not ask you to agree with me or to like me, but can I please ask you not to insult me with these double standards.Griswaldo (talk) 16:18, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
]
- Griswaldo, I mean no offense when I say this, but I'd appreciate it if you stayed out of discussions which didn't involve you. Also, please don't put words in my mouth. Thanks, m.o.p 16:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I have not put words in your mouth. You said that you would assume good faith about Lionel. If you "assume good faith" it means you assume his edits were in "good faith." If you did not intend that meaning I suggest you reconsider what you wrote. Also, if you want me to "stay out of discussion which don't involve me" then I suggest your first order of business should be to do the same thing yourself. You decided to post at WQA, when there was no mention of you or anything you've done in that thread. Once again, I expect people not to practice double standards. So as long as you cannot show me that you will treat me as you ask to be treated yourself, I will not oblige you. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:21, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Please stop bickering. I'm not quite sure what you're trying to accomplish here. I've already explained what I meant when I said assuming good faith, but I'll explain again: I assumed that Lionelt was not hounding or deliberately haranguing you. I did not say, at any point, that his edit content was good faith, and I've told him not to edit like that again. So please stop accusing me of saying things I haven't said.
- Also, I posted in WQA because, as a mediator in this case and as an administrator, it's my duty to weigh in on administrative noticeboards, especially when the case is an ongoing discussion I've been participating in for three months. It is not your duty to weigh in on discussions on my talk page that don't concern you. I hope the distinction is clear here. m.o.p 20:33, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I think you are confused about something. Content is never good faith. "Editing in good faith" and "good faith edits" refers to the intent of the editor always. It has nothing to do with content. My assumption that you also felt the edits were appropriate comes from the fact that you did not say they weren't appropriate and clearly feel that his intentions were good. If you'd like to set the record straight on that issue you still can. I've asked you twice now to discuss the actual edits that are the focal point of the thread. Also, I moved the thread to ANI, per the suggestion of the editor who marked it "resolved."Griswaldo (talk) 20:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- See Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#User:Lionelt_--_following_my_past_edits_to_drum_up_support_against_me. FYI, I copy pasted the entire discussion because both you and Collect were critical of my initial post and I thought it was the right thing to do to preserve that criticism in the record of the conversation. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:43, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- In reply to your first paragraph: I'm going to give up now, as it seems you're misunderstanding most of what I type, but you're the one who stated that the content was not good faith (as you said, not appropriate), and I agreed - I referred to his intent in replying to you, and said that I assumed good faith in his motives, not his replies. I can't really say that in a clearer way, so my apologies if it's hard to understand. Also, as I've already said, I've left a message for Lionelt about his edits, so clearly I do not feel they're appropriate. m.o.p 20:57, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I, too, find these double standards vexing.
- Which diff is defamatory?
- I had hitherto thought that people on the article talkpage might like to be aware of potential problems with votestacking on the article talkpage (and 3rr evasion, of course). Would it be permitted to add a link to that list of diffs when it's in a different place, or would you consider that defamatory too? bobrayner (talk) 16:23, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- As I said, the information is not defamatory, but the way it's presented is - we have specific processes available to pursue should one feel there are sockpuppets about. However, calling someone out with the intent of informing the community is overstepping your authority and damaging to the accused's character. Also, there's no way a community discussion about whether or not one editor is a sockpuppet can end in anything other than a sockpuppet investigation anyway.
- So, in closing, please don't bring issues like this to the talk page. If you're concerned about votestacking, take it to the appropriate venue - if your concerns are validated, we'll take measures against said puppets. Cheers, m.o.p 16:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I am very disappointed that it's no longer permissible to raise problems with article-editing on the article talkpage. Previous concerns about sockpuppetry were simply ignored; the difference this time is that it's backed by lots of diffs.
- I'm fairly confident that the people concerned have sufficient technical nous to make checkuser draw a blank. And, let's be entirely honest, within minutes of me creating an SPI, an admin of the right persuasion will be getting an email suggesting that an SPI needs their attention. And SPI does not see offsite coordination by a facebook group &c. Finally, any null result at SPI will be used at the article in much the same way as previous administrative decisions have been. So, I do not believe that an SPI will improve either the article, or the encyclopædia as a whole. bobrayner (talk) 17:08, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- If you don't think the pre-existing methods set in place for situations like this are sufficient, you can always raise that concern at the village pump or suggest a policy revision - however, SPI is the venue for these requests, and the only venue. The talk page can not substitute. m.o.p 17:10, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
76.228.226.122Thank you for blocking the anonymous user, who is being counterproductive and rude. (although I think the block should have been one week, but I guess ok at least)
Can you also please try to hide the edit summaries of these edits if possible?
This and
this
Thanks and regards, talk 05:04, 26 September 2011 (UTC)]
- I'll extend the block if this behaviour continues after the block period is over.
- As for the edit summaries, those don't warrant hiding - I apologize for their content, but they don't meet the criteria of what I should remove. It's best just to ignore them for now. Cheers, m.o.p 05:13, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
- Okay, good to know, if I did nothing wrong, no permanent block will be enforced. The IP does not volunteer on WP as an admin and so the disproportionately out of line comments and threats of his should be ignored. --talk 05:19, 26 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Sounds good. We only hide extremely offensive revisions; milder ones stay in the edit history. Thanks again for bringing this to our attention! Cheers, m.o.p 05:31, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
Email
Jasper Deng (talk) 05:29, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
- Reading. talk) 06:00, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Bad Girls Club
- I've blocked Junebea for 2 days for disregarding warnings. m.o.p 20:30, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks for helping :) Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 21:06, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkback
- And again.Griswaldo (talk) 04:24, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
- And again ... but maybe the last. You can settle this question once and for all. See the talk page.Griswaldo (talk) 06:09, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'm sure I'm not alone in wanting to hear your replies to the last responses posed to you at that page. IMO, I don't know why you went down the road you did, but as far as I can tell you're blatantly misrepesenting facts about your own actions when people are brining concerns to you. You might think that since you closed the RfC the matter is settled, but it is not. You're actions have not made my life any more pleasant in the last few days vis-a-vis trying to deal with Anupam's disruption and I think you owe us all answers. So please revisit this thread and deal with the open questions. Thanks.Griswaldo (talk) 02:19, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
- I invite you to stop asking the same question again and again. This would be appreciated. Thanks, m.o.p 02:33, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Block question
- No, I just block obviously bad-faith accounts on sight. Advertising/spam accounts fall under that category. m.o.p 00:37, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Thanks
- Thank you. I've unlocked the article for whatever may come. If I'm needed again, feel free to let me know. Thanks for the kind words again, m.o.p 05:12, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
reminder
- We're still waiting to see if the user understands COI policy (per Ed's question). I'll prod the user and see if they'll answer. talk) 19:20, 30 September 2011 (UTC)]
Nextel logo deleted
- Mmm, good point. What's the link to the logo in question? m.o.p 01:33, 2 October 2011 (UTC)
Support of Sage City SymphonyYou deleted this page before I had a chance to go back in and add the stuff that you wanted to see, including the links within Wikipedia to important composers such as Lou Callabro (who started this orchestra and cites it in his Wikipedia page) and Susan Hurley whose work we premiered (SC is also mentioned in her Wikipedia entry). (Let alone links about the works we have performed.) And we have a web site at www.sagecitysymphony.org, have existed for over 35 yrs and are a significant cultural resource in the Bennington area such that we receive grants from local, statewide and national foundations.
I broke my wrist last weekend and am doing one-handed pecking so it'll take me a few days to get that loaded in. We are going out for a bit now, but I would appreciate your undeleting the page so that I don't have to re-invent the starting part when I go back in tomorrow to add links. Or delete it entirely so that I can start fresh - at this point either would work as long as I can start some serious work on it tomorrow. I am the webmaster by the way, so I do have access to content and more links.
Thank you, Celia Murray — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.228.127.119 (talk) 14:22, 1 October 2011 (UTC)
- It looks like fixed everything up. Best of luck, m.o.p 01:35, 2 October 2011 (UTC)]
Reply on Deterence's talk page
MA
After the beating you took you deserve a cold one--on me! Thanks for being fair and balanced – Lionel (talk) 03:55, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
- Hey, thanks! Glad to help out. :) m.o.p 03:56, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
Deletion of Mau5trap Recordings
--neocharles (talk) 07:33, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Existence does not equal notability - the subject has to be notable to get a Wikipedia page. m.o.p 12:05, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
Questoin re: AIV
- Addendum, actually, I read it very clearly in WP:VANDNOT: "Uploading or using material on Wikipedia in violation of Wikipedia's copyright policies is prohibited, but is not vandalism unless the user does so maliciously or fails to heed warnings." So if a person fails to heed warnings it is vandalism. My mistake here was that I only warned once. --Muhandes (talk) 12:29, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Eh, technically it is vandalism, but the user seems to be trying to improve the Wikipedia - that desire to help is misplaced in this case, as they seem to think that using copyrighted content is actually better. Weird. For most cases, yes, you should report copyvio to AIV - as long as they've been warned sufficiently. m.o.p 12:42, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- OK, he now did it again and the time stamp is after your last warning. Is it vandalism now? --Muhandes (talk) 12:32, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Yeah, if they're outright ignoring warnings. I've blocked for three days. m.o.p 12:40, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
Classmusic
- Oh, I know. But if somebody's lied to my face about using another account - and to other editors working on the article - I'm not about to let them go without a repercussion or two. I'd like Almost-instinct and Voceditnore to look over the article and fix up anything shifty. Also, I'd like Classmusic to respond to my warning, instead of blanking it and ignoring like they have to the above-named editors.
- So, in short, I know that COI doesn't bar editing, but it's enough of a concern that, given the user's recent behaviour, I'll stop them from doing anything until we've figured things out. This isn't too rouge-y, is it? I didn't hear that. Perhaps he is unaware of the sockpuppet investigation findings. Anyhow it seems that DeltaQuad has also blocked the Classmusic account. I left a note on his page about using the unblock template, but re-iterated that he needs to read the COI and Autobiography guidelines and stick to them scrupulously, if he gets unblocked. In the Opera and Classical Music WikiProjects, we get a lot of articles for performers, ensembles, etc. created by their agents and PR people, and often themselves. In my experience, the best I can hope for after one of these tussles is that they'll edit their article according to the guidelines in future. I have yet to find a single one who has ever contributed anything else to Wikipedia. Their only interest in the project is as a PR tool. Having said that, at least it results (after much red-pencilling from other editors) in one new article on a notable subject that we didn't have before and in a small way redresses the pop culture systemic bias here. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 13:40, 5 October 2011 (UTC)]
Danish election
- Never mind, it's been pulled by another admin. All the best, Jenks24 (talk) 11:03, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry about that! I was busy all day and didn't get your message until now. Thanks for letting me know, though! Cheers, m.o.p 19:51, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
3RRHey there! :)
Well WP:CRYSTAL has wined down, however, there's currently a
The Bad Girls Club (season 7). I have notified the two users [32], [33]. The evidence can be found here. They are having an edit-conflict on how the "Duration of cast" should be presented. Since there's no rules regarding anything like that, and it was made up about a year ago, I couldn't warned them to stop their e/c with anything except the 3RR rule. Maybe they need an admin to tell them to stop, so that's why I came to you :) Thanks, Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 01:17, 6 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Temporary page protection requested. Calabe1992 (talk) 01:29, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
Any further discussion of Sarah Palin will result in a warning, and then a temporary block. Thank you!Hmmm, that might be just a tad excessive. We don't want to suppress all discussion, because that's when the pressure has nowhere to go, and people will go and meatball:ExpandScope.
Since scope is already expanded to international media, forcing scope to expand further might be a bit of a Bad Idea (tm). I recommend Not Going There.
If we're really intent on keeping discussions off of WP, we can always create a wikinews article, and link to the "discuss this article" page.
However, at the moment, people seem to be keeping it down to a dull roar anyway.
--Kim Bruning (talk) 22:44, 6 June 2011 (UTC)
- I think you caught my side point, but I'd like to stress the part I'm trying to tell you to watch out for!
- Long term empirical experience shows that attempts to curtail discussion on wikipedia will not slow down the internet discussion elsewhere (or even on wikipedia). Instead, that's exactly what will feed it more and more steam. So Don't Do That.
- Experience shows that the following approaches work:
- Try to centralize all (spurious) discussion in one place
- keep it as focused on encyclopedic work as possible.
- Treat the new users like new users. They don't know our rules yet. Teach them!
- The foundation would like to see us be more welcoming towards new users. That's a good idea! Let's do that.
- --Kim Bruning (talk) 00:26, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
- And... it went to AN/I (see below) --Kim Bruning (talk) 01:33, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
Edit Notice on Paul RevereYou seem to be asserting some admin right to quench discussion on the talk page by blocking and/or warning with the editnotice that I don't think we have, by policy. IAR doesn't cover stomping on people, no matter how annoying a particular conversation is.
Kelly started a
Followups probably best on ANI as I am sure others will want to comment. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 01:15, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
- On review - I'm going to blank the edit notice now. If an ANI consensus develops to support restoring it then I'll not object at all, but I think it's novel and enough of a stretch that the default should be "no" unless consensus develops otherwise. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 01:19, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
How does a user find a mentor?
Helen Lucy Burke
Talkback
I did what you asked but the IP reverted it again. PTJoshua (talk) 21:09, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
- You're removing everything I say. Please don't do this. It isn't helpful. --86.45.75.42 (talk) 21:19, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
- I'll talk to them. Sit tight for a second. m.o.p 21:10, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
RE: Deletion of 48gogreen page :ApalejaHello,
Thank you for quick response. I appreciate your reason. but if you do some research you'll find more then 4 or 5 substantial mentions in local or international media - in a newspaper, on a notable website, etc. - to put forward this article.
There is a link on official website of company. http://www.48gogreen.com/static/web
Looking forward for your response. thank you in advance to undelete article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Apaleja (talk • contribs) 08:03, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
Here are some articles from International Press (you can use Google translator-if you use chrome it'll provide option immediately):
http://www.regione.emilia-romagna.it/wcm/cinema/sezioni_primopiano/PrimoPiano/Gadoev.htm
http://domani.arcoiris.tv/girano-un-corto-in-48-ore-e-arrivano-dritti-a-cannes/
http://www.close-up.it/spip.php?article6724
http://www.flashvideo.it/news/9/2578/
http://www.radioemiliaromagna.it/cultura/cinema/videomaker_bolognesi_cannes_corto_ecologico.aspx
Also if YOU HAD READ careful our site you should have see the Press link (those are press links not blogs) with all these web press: http://www.48gogreen.com/static/web
Thank you — Preceding unsigned comment added by Apaleja (talk • contribs) 08:22, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
Final warning On Edit Warring of Efik language disputeIf My Reporting a false article is the reason you want to block me. Then Go ahead and BLOCK me.- I can be Block because I don't care to be part of a web/Encyclopedia of Lies! Although I have contributed anonymously to wikipedia since 2008, I only just signed on a few weeks ago to report an error that I thought was made. But you and your other BIASED administrators have refused to fix this error, instead you're all threatening to block me.
- : According to Wikipedia A false statement/article is removed immediatley it is realized. Yet as am reporting it you all are threatening me for causing disruption.
- You all are saying that I called I called Kwami Slow, Dumb etc. Yet Kwami used the words Ignorance first.
"As for Ukwa, your ignorance is not evidence of anything".
- What is the meaning of IGNORANCE? S/He also said;
"But we cannot have the same article under two names, nor an article on Ibibio-Efik that does not include Ibibio, nor an article on Efik that does not include Efik. A little common sense would be helpful."
- What is meaning of Common sense? Or because Kwami put it very nicely, and mine wasn't? Also I wasn't blanking the Efik page, since I just signed on it takes me a long while to write up an article. According to the statements above, Kwami said I could develop articles on Efik and Ibibio, that is what I was doing when you or your other BIASED administrators returned the articles back to the re-direct.
- : Since wikipedia says a false statement is fixed immediately it is reported, I explained out the mistakes, but Kwami kept insisting that me a native who speaks these languages was wrong and asked for sources. I provided the sources and Kwami Called A brilliant Historian who is a Million times more knowledgable than Kwami on the language;
"utterly ignorant AND not some random idiot who posted a web page".
- Yet you and your other Biased colleges are claiming that am the one attacking Kwami and causing a disruption.
- : Am done with Wikipedia, am going to be taking this issues to the Founder/head by email, once the Ibibio union are involved it might become a legal matter if Wikipedia still continues to portray this misleading information.
I will take this matter to the heads by Email first because they might not be aware of what you all supposed administrators are doing to their image. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ibibiogrl (talk • contribs) 21:41, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
Hi Mops,
Pls read my comments on the ANI page. I think Ibibiogrl means well, she just needs some guidance, and she's not willing to take it from me. — kwami (talk) 22:17, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
- Obviously we would like to have contributors from that part of the world, but Ibibiogrl's record here is so unpromising that I think we need good assurances that something will change in the future. (I would welcome any evidence that Ibibiogrl means well. It is hard to improve the encyclopedia when you have no interest in or respect for its policies. Read her statement above if you are uncertain about that). Mentorship has value only for someone who understands that something has gone wrong and would be willing to work with a mentor. EdJohnston (talk) 22:46, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
- I agree with Ed in this case - I have no grudge against Ibibiogrl, but the editor's attitude, despite multiple pleas for otherwise, remained combative and even insulting at points. If there's a serious expression of guilt and the editor decides they'd like to walk a different path, I'd be happy to help. However, as it is now, I believe the block should stand. m.o.p 22:52, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
- I agree that it would require some indication that she wants help. Just my 2¢ as the person she's most upset with. — kwami (talk) 23:05, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
- For the record, your input is highly appreciated, and very admirable; as the editor in conflict with her, I respect your neutrality and helpfulness. As for Ibibiogrl, we'll see where that goes. Cheers! m.o.p 00:59, 17 June 2011 (UTC)
Can you adopt me i want a new adopter.
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Mr. Pit (2nd nomination)
This isn't personalI belive the AFD on Campaign for "santorum" neologism was closed way to early and am contesting your close.
An editor has asked for a deletion review of Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2011 June 21. Because you closed the deletion discussion for this page, speedily deleted it, or otherwise were interested in the page, you might want to participate in the deletion review. KoshVorlon' Naluboutes Aeria Gloris 12:17, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
James Ball
Thank you for your concern. But I will not be blocked - _I am adding_ wikipedia to adblock. I also feel regret for having donated to the site before, but this will not happen again. Demonuminon (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 23:25, 23 June 2011 (UTC).
Thomas James BallWhy the hell did you delete his page?
Does his suffering mean nothing to you?
Heartless bitch. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.57.206.141 (talk • contribs)
Hey, Master of Puppets, OBVIOUSLY there is a public interested in keeping this article. Restore your deletion. Look at the massive flood of comments regarding your deletion here: http://www.<linkremoved>.com/2011/06/24/the-organized-silencing-of-a-man-publicly-burned-to-death/ and here http://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/i81rw/the_organized_silencing_of_a_man_publicly_burned/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Romerom (talk • contribs) 20:05, 24 June 2011 (UTC)
- Ball HIT A FOUR-YEAR-OLD CHILD, refused to pay child support, called for insurrection, demanded terrorism and violence as a solution, ultimately killed himself (leaving his children without a father) and damaged public property in the process. Even after all that, his incoherent message has mostly been ignored except by the less discriminating people claiming to speak for "men's rights" who haven't bothered to look into the details of his case. (If you really want to damage your cause, adopt a grown man who hits his own four-year-old child and flakes out on his child support as your poster boy.) --Orange Mike | Talk 20:26, 24 June 2011 (UTC) (proud father who has never hit his child in his lifetime)
Hey, "proud father who never hit his child in his lifetime", not everybody is against disciplining their children by spanking. He said his daughter was licking his hand, and he had told her repeatedly to stop. She didn't, and he smacked her. He didn't punch her, or send her to the hospital, or cause any serious injury. Just enough to have his wife baited into calling the police on him by child protective services. As for child support, he paid his child support until the point where he wasn't able to afford it due to an employment issue. Is that such a crazy thing to have happen? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.211.155.1 (talk) 04:28, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
- Again, while I do sympathize with the family and supporters, I am not taking sides, nor do I have any bias in this situation. I am not a feminist, nor am I a misogynist - I am fair and neutral towards all people, whether they be abusive fathers or abused fathers.
- This deletion was enforced solely in keeping with Wikipedia's long-established policies. Mr. Ball's death, while indeed tragic, was not reported throughout the reliable media enough to show his notability.
- I hope this makes sense to all those saddened by Mr. Ball's passing. Cheers, m.o.p 21:04, 24 June 2011 (UTC)
- I understand that you do not think that Mr. Ball's death is something that qualifies as an event and thus deleted said article. I disagree but I do see the merits of your argument. However, you claim to be unbiased in this debate and yet for someone who judges on the letter of the law you break the law and close debate 2.5 days before final judgment is to be rendered. If you have no corner then I ask why make this article a special case that it must be quelled , by your own admission, 2.5 days before any other articles found in similar circumstances are voted upon. I petition you to reinstate and allow the normal course of the discussion continue for the 2.5 days, allow the full opportunity for the pro side to make their case then recluse yourself from the final judgment. This is the only way to ensure transparency so that your claim of neutrality can be believed. CaffOMHW (talk) 03:28, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
- Ahead of things, let me tell you that I appreciate the civility.
- Wikipedia's policies aren't law - they're guidelines. As an administrator, it's my job to apply policy in a way that is completely devoid of bias and benefits the encyclopedia as a whole.
- On a side note, the deletion nomination was closed 1.5 days before the normal time. The page had a whole work week to be saved, rewritten or reworked; however, due to the lack of outside sourcing that carried reliability, there was nothing to keep that wasn't editorialized or unencyclopedic. I would also like to point out that almost every account that voiced their opinion in the 'keep' spectrum had either only edited that page or had edited very little aside from the page. Meanwhile, the deletion argument was put forward by experienced users.
- Though I understand that some people take offense to my early closure, I assure them that one extra day would not have yielded success, and that I took many factors into consideration before closing the discussion.
- Again, thank you for the civility, but I won't be overturning judgment or recreating a deletion discussion at this date. m.o.p 08:17, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
ITNthx for the 2 quick updates of my nom ;)
but also can you see the bolivia one. its got support and very nearly out of the news. we could tack it nearer the border.Lihaas (talk) 22:26, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
Ball closure.
Thank God you are an ambassador for WP, and against censorship, MoP. When Wikipedia fails, and it eventually will, it will largely be because most people don't like to be gamed and would rather not read well cultivated information that is maintained by dishonest brokers who hide behind rules that are never applied in an even-handed manner. The idea that a story is not relevant merely because it is not yet encyclopedic is ridiculous when one sees all the articles which linger on for months or years in the same state. The idea that a story is not relevant because the motivations/justifications of the user are suspect would be grounds for eliminating half the biographical articles in WP. It smacks of an agenda. The appearance of impropriety is as bad as actual impropriety.173.78.20.96 (talk) 04:51, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
- I appreciate the feedback.
- I do my best to maintain an equal, proportionate response in all dealings on Wikipedia; I don't defend things I like, or attack things I dislike, just for the reason of screwing with people. That strikes me as childish. Instead, the most I can do is try to help others understand Wikipedia policies, which are generally mind-bending and hard to grasp (for example, most people ask, "What's the reasoning a war hero isn't considered notable when Donkey Kong is?").
- Maybe one day the policies will change. I mean, most of these were written five, six year ago - the world's changing, and I expect they will with time. But, for now, the guidelines handle what comes in.
- Again, thanks for the input. I appreciate not being personally attacked - it makes it easier to reply. Cheers, m.o.p 05:08, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Natami (2nd nomination)
- The close was thoroughly thought-out, so there's not much ground for me to explore that I haven't already. If you're set on going to DRV, there's nothing I can say which will change your mind, and it's your right to ask for a review. However, current consensus sits at delete (unless the 'keep' side is hiding an ace-in-the-hole reliable source or something). Cheers, m.o.p 04:55, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- So, what about the reliable sources we already brought up in the AfD such as this interview in Amiga Future or this news article from nr2.ru? We've already established that Amiga Future isn't sponsored by a hardware company as one !voter there falsely claimed. On a related note, did you discount the !votes from individuals making misleading statements or those claiming there were "no independent reliable sources"? (I could tell you how that !voter happened to show up there, but he isn't going to like it.) I could also link to forum posts by another delete !voter who showed up there who was very much into a "delete at any cost" mode because he doesn't like "amiga clones". --Tothwolf (talk) 05:11, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- Those sources were there before the previous close, and I, like the previous administrator, do not think they're strong enough.
- I've already covered what kind of rationale was discounted and what wasn't.
- As for your last statement about other editors - I'm not quite sure what your point is, but I don't think it's relevant. As I said, I've discounted any rationale that does not apply policy.
- Cheers, m.o.p 05:33, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- Uh, no...nr2.ru was only brought up in the second AfD. Strong enough is also an argument to be made in a !vote, not a closing statement. --Tothwolf (talk) 05:56, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- My apologies, the Russian source was indeed added after the first AfD. Still too shaky for a stand-alone article, though. Cheers, m.o.p 13:42, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- To follow up on my earlier comment, while I don't really want to get into an "X did this because of Y" sort of thing with regards to this AfD, there were a number of delete !voters who showed up there for personal reasons/vendettas/bias and/or who made false statements about sources. Despite the template at the top of the AfD, the second AfD also didn't suffer from the forum canvassing that the first did. One of the delete !voters actually came by way of the forum and first AfD and was trolling because of his personal dislike of Amiga clones. --Tothwolf (talk) 15:33, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
If they have valid, policy-based rationale, their personal motivation doesn't matter, solely for the reason that an encyclopedia based on liking or disliking things would crumble instantly. I'm sure some of the deletion crew could just-as-easily blame keep voters for being enthusiasts and fans of Natami - but that's not important. As a result, making allegations of personal bias is unnecessary. The help is appreciated, but there's nothing I can do with the information. m.o.p 15:39, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- It matters when someone makes false statements and tries to hide what they are doing behind policy. As for keeps, quite a number appear to be from well established editors who don't appear to be all that interested in Amiga topics. As for myself, I wasn't even aware of NatAmi until the first AfD and didn't even !vote in the first AfD since I thought it was pretty obvious it was headed for a no-consensus close. --Tothwolf (talk) 15:58, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- Again, if their rationale is grounded in policy, their motivation does not matter, simply because it's impossible to discern someone's intent through text, and because the second someone accuses another of favoritism/malicious intent the entire argument turns into a bunch of people shouting, "You're lying." That's why there's nothing I can do with your information in this case. Cheers, m.o.p 16:02, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- Apologies to you, M.O.P., for addressing another editor on your talk page, but I just wanted to jump in this conversation. Tothwolf, with no prejudice against you at all I strongly suggest you take this in perspective. There have been two AFDs and an ANI report over this article. The way you treated me on my talk page threatening DRV because I was a new administrator was, as I feel it, borderline harassing. That you canvassed two other administrators to talk to me was also a below the belt move. In good faith, I relisted the debate and it has closed again as delete. I strongly suggest taking the advice at WP:DGAF into account here and let the issue go. I don't think there will be a problem recreating this article, even pulling the old content back from the deletion log, when the subject has better sources in a broader community. I hold no ill feeling toward you, this is purely honest advice.--v/r - TP 16:46, 27 June 2011 (UTC)]
- TParis, while you are correct in that this talk page is not the place for this, because you brought this up here and you seem to value honest feedback, I'll address this here.
In no way did I ever threaten you with DRV, let alone because you were a new administrator (discussion in question). I did however upon noticing that you had passed RFA only days earlier decide it best not to press you further in public and instead sent you this short email: "Sigh. I just noticed you just finished your RFA. The Natami AfD was a bad AfD to pick to close right out of the gate. It is likely to end up at DRV and given the magazine I mentioned, overturned. I really wish you would reconsider your close. You might have noticed I didn't even !vote in the AfD itself, however I did point out a number of things and took a couple of people to task for making false or misleading statements." That is the only email I sent you about the matter and not once did I ever threaten you with DRV. Please get your facts correct before making statements such as this because such mistakes can have a negative effect on others.
After you replied expressing your disagreement over the sources (and implied that I might be biased because I sometimes contribute to computing-related articles) I asked a number of other administrators (way more than two, actually) what they thought of the AfD's close because I wanted unbiased feedback to see if I was somehow totally off-track before I initiated a DRV. The feedback I got was fairly unanimous in that the close was problematic. Before I had a chance to draft a DRV however, you reverted your own close and relisted the AfD from scratch with a new listing. In no way did I ever "canvass" anyone to "talk to you" and if others did contact you directly, they did so at their own discretion and for their own reasons.
There indeed have been two AfDs, the first of which you closed (although one could also argue that the second was merely a relist of the first). The AN/I "discussion" you also mentioned wasn't really over this article or the first AfD, it was an attempt by someone to game AN/I when they were unable to bully me on their talk page. Please be more careful making these sort of blanket statements in the future because as I mentioned above such statements can cause problems for others. --Tothwolf (talk) 17:38, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- You're email was exactly like your reply here. You like to make threats without actually making them: "such statements can cause problems". There is very little way your email cannot be interpreted as anything other than a threat of DRV because I am a new administrator. This is all I'll say on M.O.P.'s talk page as I came here to offer honest advice and you don't seem interested in it. If you'd like to discuss further with me, you know where to find my talk page.--v/r - TP 17:51, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- TParis, in no way did I ever make an implied threat. While I may be a little blunt and abrasive at times (or maybe I'm just an assume good faith in that you simply misremembered the facts I outlined above when you made this statement here. It is easy to forget a few details here or there and not everyone maintains detailed notes for this sort of stuff (I do, for a number of reasons, although I didn't always).
As far as honest advice goes, this is a two-way street and I gave you my opinion as well. If you choose to ignore and discount it, so be it, but I'd suggest you be much more careful in the future and get your facts correct before you make the sort of statement you made above. Such statements can and do cause problems for other editors. Who knows, it may just be that you've not been around long enough yet to have witnessed people blocked or punished in some way because someone else didn't have their facts together. (If you do decide you want to continue this discussion, perhaps we should take this elsewhere.) --Tothwolf (talk) 18:14, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
]
Heaton Park Hebrew Congregation (2nd nomination)
Natami
Thought you might want to know
- (talk page stalker) That's just the same little ideological website which has been pushing for the "Martyrdom of St. Thomas Ball" attention since day one; no actual new coverage. --Orange Mike | Talk 14:34, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
- I guess I should also mention that the way I found it, was that someone tried submitting it to Fark.com last night. The admins did not greenlight it, so that particular submission/thread did not go to the main Fark page, appearing only to those with Totalfark accounts. The submission said something like "Wikipedia deletes burning man" (I'm not at a computer with TF access so I might not have that exactly right). It might, theoretically, based on the submission, be considered some sort of off-site canvassing (it was submitted with the asinine tag). For what its worth, the thread went uncommented, so I don't think that particular attempt garnered any support. I just wanted to drop a line in case that this was just the first drop of a large storm. If I see anything else, I'll drop a line here. Umbralcorax (talk) 15:58, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
Wiki ad
4chan raid
Thomas James Bell, new information
- (reliable sources. --Orange Mike | Talk 13:33, 30 June 2011 (UTC)]
Happy Birthday
![](//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3d/Nuvola_apps_cookie.svg/50px-Nuvola_apps_cookie.svg.png)
Just a happy Birthday message to you, Master of Puppets, from the Wikipedia Birthday Committee! Have a great day!
Monterey Bay (talk) 02:00, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
User:BillyMoses
Natami
AFD
- Your input is appreciated, though there's nothing I can do with it but take a note. If you'd like, you can weigh in at the next AfD(s), when/if they arise. Cheers, m.o.p 19:42, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
Dr Myko San – Health from Mushrooms
- I'd be happy to help! However, I'm currently away from a computer (typing this on my phone), so I'll have to check in on the 11th of July. Does that sound okay? m.o.p 15:40, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
- wp:NODEADLINE :-) LeadSongDog come howl! 15:48, 7 July 2011 (UTC)]
From a former Wikipedian
-71.234.90.0 (talk) 04:50, 8 July 2011 (UTC)
- Hey, thanks so much! I'm not sure who you are, but I really appreciate the sentiment. Hope all is well! m.o.p 20:49, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
Deletion review for Thomas James Ball
DRV comment
DRV
Could you please overturn the deletion of these files per File:Signature of Amitabh Bachchan.svg and File:Signature of Zakir Hussain.svg:
- File:Signature of Vishwanathan Anand.svg
- File:Signature of Vijay Mallya.svg
- File:Signature of Venkaiah Naidu.svg
- File:Signature of Sudeep Bandhopadhyay.svg
- File:Signature of Sonia Gandhi.svg
- File:Signature of Somnath Chatterjee.svg
- File:Signature of Ratan Tata.svg
- File:Signature of Kumar Mangalam Birla.svg
- File:Signature of Rajeev Shukla.svg
- File:Signature of Raj Babbar.svg
- File:Signature of Rahul Gandhi.svg
- File:Signature of Priyanka Vadra.svg
- File:Signature of P. T. Usha.svg
- File:Signature of Narendra Modi.svg
- File:Signature of Nandan Nilekani.svg
- File:Signature of Manish Tewari.svg
- File:Signature of Leander Paes.svg
- File:Signature of Lata Mangeshkar.svg
- File:Signature of Kumar Mangalam Birla.svg
- File:Signature of Karia Munda.svg
- File:Signature of Kapil Sibal.svg
- File:Signature of Kamal Nath.svg
- File:Signature of K. Kamraj.svg
- File:Signature of Jaya Bachchan.svg
- File:Signature of Gautam Gambhir.svg
- File:Signature of Brinda Karat.svg
- File:Signature of Bharatsinh Solanki.svg
- File:Signature of Bhairon Singh Shekhawat.svg
- File:Signature of B. K. Birla.svg
- File:Signature of Azim Premji.svg
- File:Signature of Arun Jaitely.svg
- File:Signature of Aishwarya Rai Bachchan.svg
- File:Signature of Abhishek Manu Singhvi.svg
- File:Signature of Abhishek Bachchan.svg
- File:Signature of Sting.svg
- File:Signature of Br. L. D. Lobo.svg
- File:Signature of VJ Rannvijay Singh Singha.svg
Diligent07Appears to be less than new. See User talk:Raoulduke25 where he states that this is a deliberate series of edits.
- Can you please help defend our collective effort of including the obscene middle-finger incident in the Cheney Mason article? It should be maintained in the article for public interest, etc. Please see the Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard#Cheney Mason discussion page and include your thoughts in favor of having the content remain in the interests of the public, etc
[8], [9] and even imputation that an editor has a connection with the person [10]. He has been on since April, and started off as being experienced on WP IMHO. Kindly keep an eye out please. Especially for any sign of a real "collective effort"? Such as [11]? Cheers. Collect (talk) 11:36, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
A cookie for you!
Keep up the good work defending the "Wiki" against genre warriors. Thanks for the help! talk) 17:31, 13 July 2011 (UTC)]
Hello. You have a new message at Lionelt's talk page.
Semi protection
OK, this thing with the militant atheism page is impossibleThese guys are incredible... I could dig up diffs to show you how they revert and wikilawyer even the SMALLEST attempt to move the article closer to NPOV. But that would take a long time for you to read. How about I show you this instead:
These guys are utterly without scruples. Who in their right mind would remove the NPOV dispute tag when heated arguments have been raging for weeks and NO moves whatsoever have been made to fix the article? Oh right, that would be someone in their right mind who is running a propaganda platform.
Anyway... I wanted to ask your advice on what to do. These guys are impossible to work with. Most of the other editors have given up and refuse to put this page on their watchlist. So what to do then? Request formal mediation? Articles for deletion? Something else?
Me and the other editors would like to see the page replaced with a disambiguation page... since literally ALL the content has already been covered (better) in Criticism of atheism, State atheism and New Atheism.
Obhave (talk) 13:21, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
- Hello User:Master of Puppets. I noticed this conversation and thought I might add that an NPOV policy. Obhave (talk) 13:11, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
- One more thing, m.o.p... my opponents are currently twisting your words to make it look as if you were scolding user:Mann_jess all along. Obhave (talk) 14:42, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
]
User:Jasper Deng page protection
- No worries! m.o.p 19:35, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
Is there a procedure for brutal uncollaborated editing with a destructive intent?I noticed that you recently had problems with proposed brutal editing by Peter S Strempel. Although he has been more sensible on your project in the end (possibly because of your administrator status?) he has not been so with regard to the astrology project pages to which he made a similar 'razor-promise'. Could you please see this Afd request which is one of three he made for major 'history of astrology' articles within the last hour, with a promise on another important page that any comment which is not refrences within 7 days will be removed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Babylonian_astrology
Is there anything that can be done about this officially to stop him wreaking havoc with content whilst he knows that the small group of editors providing content on these pages are already stretched to the limit trying to keep up with what needs to be done? I don't understand what drives some people to want to edit WP like this, but I think it is entriely the result of his ego-stress that when he proposed an edit for a passage, no one favoured it. Hope you can help or advise Zac Δ talk 01:15, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks! assume good faith; I believe that Peter is simply trying to help improve Wikipedia. While his methods may be lacking in some areas, he has displayed a pretty decent grasp on the policies he's trying to enforce.
- However, I agree that he shouldn't be making any changes if they're not discussed with the community first. Do you mind pulling up a few diffs of where he went against consensus? I'll approach him with your concern then. Thanks, m.o.p 03:57, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
- Actually there hasn't been any significant content dispute with Peter. He proposed a change to a section edit which wasn't a very good proposition and a few editors commented but without rancur, and I added a new section post immediately afterwards to point out the proiposed change would contradict with how the definition was given correctly at a later point in the article, outlining how I understood WP policy expected the main astrology article to pull its own content together, along with its summarised content from its daughter pages. Peter never responded to this but other editors started working in that direction immediately. Then, without further discussion or comment, Peter came back four days later to announce an intention to take his 'word razor' to all unreferenced assertions on the main astrology page, its sub-pages, and the portal page itself, to ensure his perceived disagreement was not circumvented in pages he viewed as content forks (I'm still not sure what he means by that). My response to that can be seen - a perfectly reasonable request for him to do what he felt was most productive, but consider that citation-tagging was the way to go. I also placed comments on his talk-page, which you can read if you are interested. That he erupted into a frenzy of AfD requests last night says something, I think, about his unwillingness to discuss and engage in other views. Most of his posts appear as new section declarations that don't appear to have considered the responses other editors give him.
- I've summarised this in the ANI request Dougweller started. The deletion requests were a step too far IMO, and I'm concerned that Peter would spring to such drastic measures in reaction to what he perceives to be me not allowing him to do what he wants to do. I'll be away for a few days so I'm tying up my WP activity now. That underlines my concern that he intends to take such drastic action with only one week's notice of intent. Thanks for looking into this. It would be good if something could be proposed to stop huge problems before they occur. 10:35, 22 July 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zachariel (talk • contribs
)
- One last request. I have just noticed that a related complaint, which is quite serious but has been sidetracked (deliberatly IMO) by Peter's suggestions that I have prevented him from doing what he wants, has been collapsed as "going nowehere" by an unsympathetic editor.
- "Its ben here several days and no admin has even sniffed at a block or ban - clearly you're not going to get admin action. So this should got to WP:DR or WP:RFCU if you want to take it further. I've boldly collapsed this, though I won't be surprised if someone uncollapses it"
- If you can find the time could you at least take a look at that related problem, and consider uncollapsing it, because the issues are serious and have gone beyond the point where Dispute resolution are appropriate. I will be away and have nothing more to add, but the problems identified still remain. Zac Δ talk 10:58, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
What to do?
- I've started a threat at ANI. Those AfDs are purely pointy and if no one objects I'll close them. talk) 06:11, 22 July 2011 (UTC)]
- Replied there. m.o.p 08:20, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
Talk Page on Militant Atheism - Introduction Section
- The update is appreciated, thanks very much. I've been dealing with life for the past two weeks, but I'll be back to close that discussion tonight or tomorrow. Thanks again, m.o.p 22:03, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
- Just bringing this up again, given the current state of this section. I believe the discussion will be archived automatically if not closed. I'm sorry if I sound pushy with you having a lot on your plate of late. If you would prefer, I could alert User:Fastily instead. Turnsalso (talk) 16:55, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
ITN
- I knew that tab I closed had unfinished business on it... thanks. 2008 University of Central Arkansas shootings is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.
The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2008 University of Central Arkansas shootings(2nd nomination) until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on good quality evidence, and our policies and guidelines.
Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article.
talk 14:00, 1 September 2011 (UTC)]
Hey
- Done! Both your userpage and the transcluded page are protected. Cheers, « ₣M₣ » 04:09, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Restored. m.o.p 05:21, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
]
User talk:Joshua the Independent
- My mistake - my block script auto-filled the edit summary. The block was issued due to the user's newfound will to disrupt Wikipedia intentionally. Their previous contributions are welcome, but this behaviour necessitates administrative action. m.o.p 21:52, 13 September 2011 (UTC)
Say hi to your imaginary girlfriend for me
- Well, I do love getting hate mail. Thanks for the laugh! Cheers, m.o.p 05:17, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
...further to the above lovely note, I weighed in on Calabe's talk page - there appears to be more confusion here than at first glance. bou·le·var·dier (talk) 05:19, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
Sorry to drop by again, but Silentsizzlingsausage (talk · contribs) would appear to be a duck. bou·le·var·dier (talk) 05:31, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
- No, it's not an issue! Thanks for the note, blocked. Cheers, WP:SPI. Thanks again, m.o.p 06:13, 14 September 2011 (UTC)]
I have to admit ...
- See the above section. The link is apparently a very subtle spam link that Calabe is removing, and socks are springing up to revert him. Swarm u / t 10:20, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
Moderation
- Alright, I'll make my way back. Thanks for letting me know! m.o.p 05:18, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
User:12.139.96.228
- To be honest, this case is perplexing. Half of this user's edits are constructive (mostly sourced), the other half aren't sourced - and the user won't reply to anybody. I'm also too busy to go through every edit and confirm whether or not it's good. I forgot about this for a while - I'll think about it tonight and figure something out for tomorrow. Thanks for reminding me! m.o.p 05:18, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
Whoops
- Whoops! Must not have been looking when I ran my block script. Thanks for letting me know, I've reblocked them for a far shorter (technically, an infinitely shorter) time. Cheers, m.o.p 22:58, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
Ashleyleggat404
- You're fully right in that the blanking policy covers indefinite blocks. I've removed the user's talk page rights as a result. Thanks again! m.o.p 00:28, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkback
Moderation
- If you look into this please consider whether Anupam's actions on the talk page and the entry itself are violations of WP:OWN. He's been driving off those he disagrees with by bludgening them to death with argument and heavily policing the entry claiming that there is a consensus written in stone despite many dissenting voices. Others have taken to simply calling him "the article's owner." I have had enough of this behavior personally and left him a message about it on his talk page. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:52, 20 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Dear User:Master of Puppets, the above user has misrepresented the occurrences at the article. I started another Introduction discussion at the article's talk page but User:Griswaldo has chosen to edit war over a second NPOV tag, despite the fact that one already exists in the article. He has done so despite the fact that the Introduction is being discussed in a peaceful manner at the talk page, in violation of your injunction: "We've only got consensus on this proposed versions (and loose consensus at that) - please do not attempt to subvert said consensus by making undiscussed changes." I have posted a message on his talk page about this behaviour. Nevertheless, I also do not wish to argue with the user personally and would prefer if you could go back to moderating the discussion between the two parties at the talk page. Thanks for taking the time to read this message. With regards, AnupamTalk 20:58, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- His "injunction?" Adding a neutrality tag to a specific sentence which an editor disputes the neutrality of is hardly "subverting the consensus by making undiscussed changes." Please stop wikilawyering to get your way. There is a growing consensus against your position regarding this article in general as well, despite your aggressive policing of the entry and the talk page. See ]
- I just thought that I would mention that User:Griswaldo, after seeing this message, just now decided to comment in the discussion rather than edit war against consensus further. Thanks for taking the time to read this message. With regards, AnupamTalk 21:51, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- "Edit war against consensus further?" My comment there has nothing to do with your message here. I've made three total edits to this entry ever. One was a copy edit in June, another was reverting an IP vandal, and the third was the revert of your Ownership edit. Please do not insinuate that I'm a edit warrior on this page. It is disingenuous.Griswaldo (talk) 22:08, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Thank you all for approaching me with your concerns.
- Obviously, I do not support Anupam - this is because I'm remaining a neutral third party, and, therefore, can't take sides. However, Griswaldo: please keep in mind that I did ask for all discussion to take place on the talk page. Why not just add your complaints to the talk page? It would have been much easier to discuss.
- I do agree that adding a NPOV tag, while slightly redundant, isn't horrible, but your intent seems to have been to stir discussion on that particular section, discussion that would be much more appropriate on the talk page.
- As for your and Snalwibma's concerns of Anupam trying to 'own' the article, I'm curious as to what you two mean; what 'delusions'?
- Also, Griswaldo, I don't think Anupam meant to insinuate you are an edit warrior (though this is just my take) - rather, they wanted to add the note that you've weighed in on discussion. m.o.p 22:10, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- your intent seems to have been to stir discussion on that particular section - No that's incorrect. I didn't add this tag, I simply reverted Anupam's attempt to own the page when he removed it. I agreed with JimWae's addition of the tag and found Anupam's removal to be unwarranted and a display of ownership.Griswaldo (talk) 22:16, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Note that, for all intents and purposes, reverting somebody is adding whatever is included in your edit, regardless of who put it there first. You revert a removal, you're agreeing with the edition you're reverting to - simple.
- And, if you agreed with JimWae, then we go back to what I was saying earlier - say so on the talk page. Two of you agree? Great! That's closer to consensus. But it means nothing if you express your support by reverting removals.
- Again, as I've asked multiple times, please stop saying that Anupam is owning anything without giving me evidence of it first. m.o.p 22:22, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Dear User:Master of Puppets, thank you for your reply to all of us. The reason User:Snalwibma stated that I was attempting to "own" the article was because I reverted an undiscussed removal from the article, which not only myself, but two other users objected to. In fact, two anonymous IP Addresses also reverted User:Snalwibma. I was open to compromise on the issue and stated that I would accept User:Turnsalso's compromise on the issue. I kindly request you to look at that discussion yourself and get an honest reading of it. Also, the only reason I removed the second NPOV tag was because there was already one present, which I did not remove. I only reverted the addition of a second NPOV tag once and even explained myself on the talk page. When I went to the talk page, I found rude accusations and an anti-collaborative spirit, despite the fact that I have been nothing but polite. I hope this helps. With regards, AnupamTalk 22:25, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry - I know I should not rise to the bait, but I have to object to the comment "The reason User:Snalwibma stated that I was attempting to 'own' the article was because I reverted an undiscussed removal ..." How dare Anupam presume to know what is in my mind! The reason I describe Anupam's attitude to the article as one of ownership is because that is how s/he behaves - "policing" every edit, pronouncing on whether s/he "accepts" or "rejects" it, peremptorily reverting anything s/he does not like, without discussion, presuming to know others' motives, and judging them as fit/unfit to contribute to the article. This has been going on for weeks, if not months. It is impossible to discuss the content of the article, let alone improve the text, because everything is filtered through the approval/disapproval of the article's self-appointed guardian, Anupam. tendentious or disruptive when they bring up certain issues, even when they are clearly in the majority. That is not collaborative. I stopped editing the article heavily because of those issues. I don't have any delusions that my opinion is worth more than anyone else's here, but I would think that the large number of established, experienced editors who are all saying there's a problem, would indicate something. — Jess· Δ♥ 19:45, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
Please reconsider your full protection of Militant atheist
- In case you didn't notice, I asked that people think twice about pointing fingers at each other. If you'd like to start a sockpuppetry investigation, let me know, and we can take that avenue - however, don't accuse other editors of ownership without substance. If you think Anupam is trying to own things, give me something. Diffs, edits, anything. I'll check it out for you, but right now, baseless accusations are not what I'm looking for.
- Also, notice that I protected the article with your edit being the last one. How is that validating the very person you've been reverting?
- The protection will stay until consensus is reached. m.o.p 22:19, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Because protection is what he wants quite clearly. He's stalling conversation and shouting down people on the talk page, where, if you have a look, you'll see he's clearly in the minority. Because of your "injunction" as he calls it, he also claims that no matter how many people agree with a certain change it is illegitimate. I'll be happy to gather some diffs, but my first message to you above was to please look into the situation carefully before acting on it. Did you do that and come to the conclusion that I'm wrong or did you not head that request? Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:29, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Yes, I did heed your request. I don't see any ownership behaviour from Anupam, though, being involved in multiple disputes, I didn't have the time to read every last word on the page, so you're free to provide evidence. However, from what I can see, Anupam's last proposal was supported by the majority - not to count (and I don't mean to imply that I decide where consensus lies by looking at pure numbers), but from looking at pure supports versus opposes, eight people (nine including Anupam) support while four oppose. How does that make Anupam's views a minority? m.o.p 22:37, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- It depends on what view you are talking about. The current RFC on the introduction is something that most people don't even want to engage because most people think this very entry should be split up and integrated into other entries. I reluctantly engaged the RfC just now myself. The last time the more serious question about the entry was asked, several of the new commentators were not around, and there was "no consensus" found because the opposing side was chalk full of SPAs and editors with a view that is outright hostile to atheism (which is a legitimate view to hold, but it is a minority view). Let me find you some diffs.Griswaldo (talk) 22:43, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- User:Griswaldo, that is exactly the issue: you do not want to collaborate with other users on the talk page, which is why you were reluctant to participate in the current RfC. Moreover, there were several SPA's on the side of the opposition as well, including WP:NPOV. In addition, the split was again recently discussed and the specific case to do so was refuted by several editors. As such, there was no consensus for it. I hope this helps. With regards, AnupamTalk 22:52, 20 September 2011 (UTC)]
- No. You are trying to write an article that violates WP:SYNTH because it conflates New Atheism with oppressive communist regimes and their histories of violence. That's hardly NPOV. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:59, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
Hi m.o.p., as someone who occasionally looks at that page (and then washes my hands), I just want to compliment you as having done the right thing in full protecting. By way of unsolicited advice to the involved editors, the best thing they could do is to allow The Wrong Version to sit there a good long time, and devote their energy to other things. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:54, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
]
Yes, please reconsider your full protection of
WP:RS—deserve protection against misinformed reverts. Thanks Geremia (talk) 16:12, 22 September 2011 (UTC)]
Diffs of
- I'm not really sure where the ownership is here; nowhere in our policies is it stated that a user can't promote their RFC on the subject talk page. If it's ongoing and they'd like to move it to the forefront, what's wrong with that? More so, some of your summaries seem inaccurate - in that last diff, you state that Anupam is removing images, yet I only see Anupam adding an image (the peace dove that's at the top of the page). Also, you use repeating examples. m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Well clearly the last diff was wrong. Thanks for the vote of confidence. There are no repeat examples nor inaccurate summaries, just a mistaken copy paste of the second to last diff to the last position as well. I have fixed it. Cheers.
- Using "consensus claims from one RfC to reject changes made to article content
- Same as above. Using the "consensus" bludgeon to get his way. Please note that clearly we ought to edit by consensus, but this consensus is highly disputed, and IMO not there in the first place. The real problem is the way in which Anupam decides to use it like a trump card to remove changes he doesn't like. Ask yourself if all changes post "consensus" have been removed or just the ones Anupam decided he wanted removed.
Master of Puppets do you need more diffs or is this enough?Griswaldo (talk) 23:31, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Well I need more diffs because your "evidence" so far looks like a desperate attempt to incriminate an editor who has been very successful in persuading his colleagues to adopt his proposals. Anupam has presented his proposals, argued the merits and persuaded many editors. Anything you want to tell us about why you're having difficulty doing likewise? – Lionel (talk) 06:02, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- I don't see this is as conclusive evidence, either. And, it should be said - if people are editing against established consensus, then people are free to re-evaluate consensus, but edit-warring against it doesn't make much sense. m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- If not ownership then what is this - [28], [29], [30]? He removes two RfCs started by another editor, and revolving around the question that many of us actually find to be the fundamental question to answer regarding the entry. Then he edit wars to keep these RfCs off the page, claiming again to have some sort of authority stemming from your prior actions. If you aren't willing to do something here I'm going to another administrator and I'm going to ask for your initial "consensus," your strong arm administrating, and your lack of action here to be reviewed as well. Thanks.Griswaldo (talk) 17:08, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Anupam has already apologized for reverting those RfC additions, and we've moved past it. He also didn't claim to have administrative authority, but was waiting for my approval. We've cleared this up, it's not an issue. So no, I'm not going to take any action (as I've said here and on ANI). Now, if you'd like to threaten me and tell me that, since I'm not cooperating with your wills, you'll go to another administrator, that's fine - as I've said, you can seek outside opinions - but remember to keep a cool head, because borderline threats are not appreciated. m.o.p 21:49, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- It was not a threat, "borderline" or otherwise. You are conveniently ignoring a growing number of voices who are all saying the same thing - there is an ownership problem here. The deletion issue has not been "cleared up" as far as I'm concerned. Whenever it is mentioned Anupam insists that he did not "unilaterally" delete the RfCs from the page, which is a blatant distortion, since that is exactly what he did. He continues to act as a policeman at the page, and yes he does continue to cite your authority. Did you bother to read the many diffs I posted above in the second two sections? I will quote three random examples from those I provided for you if you want.
- When he first deleted the two RfCs he wrote: "rv - see discussion with reviewing administrator; approval needed to start another RfC while one is already occurring."
- When he deleted a fact tag that JimWae put into the lede: "rv excessive tagging per talk; tag is already extant in header; do not subvert previous consensus but gain consensus for potential additions per administrative notice"
- When he rejected another recent change to the entry: "accepted edits by User:Jkhwiki; rv removal of longstanding referenced content - see discussion on talk page and gain consensus for action per administrative injunction"
- In talk page comments and in edit summaries he consistently does the same thing. He refers to your authority, either directly or indirectly through your "notice" or your "injunction" as he likes to call it. I never said the claimed to have administrative authority, I said that he's using your authority, by way of your comments, such as the closure of the AfD to bully people. Do you deny that he citing your comments, because if you do then I must have fabricated those quotes. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:32, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
If you say "If you don't do A, then I'm going to go and do B", that's a threat. Anyway, that's not the issue - we've already covered all the issues with the RfC reverting, and Anupam won't do it again. Why keep raising hell over it?
We've already covered everything you bring up. And no, I'm not denying anything. I'm just saying this, and it's very simple: I don't think there has been any blatant ownership here. That's my judgment. If you disagree, again, feel free to raise this with another administrator or on ANI. m.o.p 23:12, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Regarding the new RFC, I still think there has not passed yet too much time since the last discussion about splitting the article. As far as I knew, repeating these sorts of debates (like splitting, deleting, renaming) before a larger amount of time has passed (like 6 months) is usually discouraged. And as others have also argued earlier, even if having multiple RFCs is possible, it's not very useful, and the new RFC seems to discourage further discussion about improving the lead introduction. So preventing multiple RFCs (and also a RFC about an issue debated not too long ago) does not look to me like evidence of bad faith intentions. Cody7777777 (talk) 21:37, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Cody, would you mind linking me to the previous RfC on splitting? m.o.p 21:49, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- The previous attempt to split the article can be found here. Cody7777777 (talk) 21:55, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Response
Yes, it does. Thanks, m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Dear User:Master of Puppets, I just noticed that User:Binksternet started another RfC while a current one is occurring. Is this appropriate? I reverted the addition motioning for one until your response is confirmed. If it is acceptable, then I apologize and will revert my edit. I look forward to your response. With regards, AnupamTalk 15:14, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'll form my reply on ANI. m.o.p 17:12, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- When you do please take into account my comment just above, regarding Anupam's edit warring to remove talk page comments (namely these RfCs) posted by others on the talk page. If you still don't think this is WP:OWN then clearly other administrators are needed here.Griswaldo (talk) 17:15, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Dear User:Griswaldo, how is going to a neutral mediator to address the issue owning the article? I acknowledge that the article is in dispute and as a result, I am asking an administrator for advice in this matter, NOT handling things on my own, as you have done by edit warring. Your WP:OWN allegations have not only been dismissed by this administrator, but by several other users, including, User:Lionelt, User:Cody7777777 and User:NYyankees51. Thanks, AnupamTalk 17:27, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- In reply to Griswaldo: reverting the RfCs was a mistake, but we've cleared that up now. As Anupam has stated at ANI, the intent was not to discourage discussion. If you think my judgment is compromised, you're welcome to seek another administrator's input. m.o.p 21:04, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- And as further evidence of WP:OWN, see this. Anupam adds a comment to everything that anyone else says, as if he/she is the owner of the article and everyone else is a subordinate contributor. This particular instance is pretty benign (although it clutters up the talk page with an unnecessary comment that merely says "I agree"), but I do think that Anupam at least needs to learn how to avoid giving the appearance of thinking he/she owns the article, and to desist from chipping in and saying the same thing over and over again, which almost makes meaningful discussion impossible! SNALWIBMA ( talk - contribs ) 17:31, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- While the input is appreciated, as I've said before, making allegations of ownership without hard evidence isn't going to get us anywhere. Anupam is not stopping others from discussing changes or forming consensus, and that's all that matters - refactoring the talk page or commenting on an issue is not against policy, and I'm not going to tell someone to stop editing because it "looks" like they're doing something wrong. As said above, you're welcome to request another administrator's insight if you wish. m.o.p 21:04, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
COIHi
you've helped me out before, with a conflict of interest problem, so having much more experience than me on wikipedia, I thought I would be bold enough to ask again for help.
Similar problem to last, User_talk:Hobbycraft is editing the HOBBYCRAFT article and making changes that aren't citably right. I think the user name suggest and history suggests a conflict of interest case.
Can you please, speak to them addressing this issue.
Thank you very much for your help.
Markcoulter50 (talk) 22:27, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
- I've blocked that user for username violations. Thanks a lot for letting me know! Keep up the great work, m.o.p 23:00, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkbackcausa sui (talk) 18:47, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Hello. You have a new message at causa sui's talk page. causa sui (talk) 20:54, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Problematic editing on militant atheism
- I hope it's not considered defamatory to repeat the final line: "I merely present the diffs above, and let others draw their own conclusions. Is this a duck? Does it quack? You decide.". Unfortunately, the concerned community no longer has that opportunity. What did you decide on their behalf? Does this duck quack, or not? bobrayner (talk) 15:42, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- It's not your wording, it's the very idea of it. Going to what's allegorically a public place and shouting, "Hey, everybody, this man is a criminal!" is one step below blatantly forming a lynch mob. As I've said, I have no problem with your wording or evidence, just your location of choice. Wikipedia is not, unfortunately, a democracy - letting others draw their conclusions and voice their opinions is not how a sockpuppet investigation works.
- So yes, please don't go restoring any of that section. We're not discussing editors, we're discussing the content they produce. Anything else has a sub-board to deal with it (like WP:SPI).
- Hopefully that clears things up! I'll be happy to answer any more questions should you have them. Cheers, m.o.p 15:48, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Hello User:Bobrayner, I noticed the section you created on the militant atheism talk page. If you do feel the way you do about User:Turnsalso and the anonymous IP Addresses, you can take this up with WP:SPI. Thanks, AnupamTalk 15:52, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
Are you kidding my MoP? Above your write: Going to what's allegorically a public place and shouting, "Hey, everybody, this man is a criminal!" is one step below blatantly forming a lynch mob. AND We're not discussing editors, we're discussing the content they produce. Yet you call this edit by Lionelt "good faith," at WQA? MoP, I would not ask you to agree with me or to like me, but can I please ask you not to insult me with these double standards.Griswaldo (talk) 16:18, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
]
- Griswaldo, I mean no offense when I say this, but I'd appreciate it if you stayed out of discussions which didn't involve you. Also, please don't put words in my mouth. Thanks, m.o.p 16:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I have not put words in your mouth. You said that you would assume good faith about Lionel. If you "assume good faith" it means you assume his edits were in "good faith." If you did not intend that meaning I suggest you reconsider what you wrote. Also, if you want me to "stay out of discussion which don't involve me" then I suggest your first order of business should be to do the same thing yourself. You decided to post at WQA, when there was no mention of you or anything you've done in that thread. Once again, I expect people not to practice double standards. So as long as you cannot show me that you will treat me as you ask to be treated yourself, I will not oblige you. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:21, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Please stop bickering. I'm not quite sure what you're trying to accomplish here. I've already explained what I meant when I said assuming good faith, but I'll explain again: I assumed that Lionelt was not hounding or deliberately haranguing you. I did not say, at any point, that his edit content was good faith, and I've told him not to edit like that again. So please stop accusing me of saying things I haven't said.
- Also, I posted in WQA because, as a mediator in this case and as an administrator, it's my duty to weigh in on administrative noticeboards, especially when the case is an ongoing discussion I've been participating in for three months. It is not your duty to weigh in on discussions on my talk page that don't concern you. I hope the distinction is clear here. m.o.p 20:33, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I think you are confused about something. Content is never good faith. "Editing in good faith" and "good faith edits" refers to the intent of the editor always. It has nothing to do with content. My assumption that you also felt the edits were appropriate comes from the fact that you did not say they weren't appropriate and clearly feel that his intentions were good. If you'd like to set the record straight on that issue you still can. I've asked you twice now to discuss the actual edits that are the focal point of the thread. Also, I moved the thread to ANI, per the suggestion of the editor who marked it "resolved."Griswaldo (talk) 20:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- See Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#User:Lionelt_--_following_my_past_edits_to_drum_up_support_against_me. FYI, I copy pasted the entire discussion because both you and Collect were critical of my initial post and I thought it was the right thing to do to preserve that criticism in the record of the conversation. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:43, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- In reply to your first paragraph: I'm going to give up now, as it seems you're misunderstanding most of what I type, but you're the one who stated that the content was not good faith (as you said, not appropriate), and I agreed - I referred to his intent in replying to you, and said that I assumed good faith in his motives, not his replies. I can't really say that in a clearer way, so my apologies if it's hard to understand. Also, as I've already said, I've left a message for Lionelt about his edits, so clearly I do not feel they're appropriate. m.o.p 20:57, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I, too, find these double standards vexing.
- Which diff is defamatory?
- I had hitherto thought that people on the article talkpage might like to be aware of potential problems with votestacking on the article talkpage (and 3rr evasion, of course). Would it be permitted to add a link to that list of diffs when it's in a different place, or would you consider that defamatory too? bobrayner (talk) 16:23, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- As I said, the information is not defamatory, but the way it's presented is - we have specific processes available to pursue should one feel there are sockpuppets about. However, calling someone out with the intent of informing the community is overstepping your authority and damaging to the accused's character. Also, there's no way a community discussion about whether or not one editor is a sockpuppet can end in anything other than a sockpuppet investigation anyway.
- So, in closing, please don't bring issues like this to the talk page. If you're concerned about votestacking, take it to the appropriate venue - if your concerns are validated, we'll take measures against said puppets. Cheers, m.o.p 16:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I am very disappointed that it's no longer permissible to raise problems with article-editing on the article talkpage. Previous concerns about sockpuppetry were simply ignored; the difference this time is that it's backed by lots of diffs.
- I'm fairly confident that the people concerned have sufficient technical nous to make checkuser draw a blank. And, let's be entirely honest, within minutes of me creating an SPI, an admin of the right persuasion will be getting an email suggesting that an SPI needs their attention. And SPI does not see offsite coordination by a facebook group &c. Finally, any null result at SPI will be used at the article in much the same way as previous administrative decisions have been. So, I do not believe that an SPI will improve either the article, or the encyclopædia as a whole. bobrayner (talk) 17:08, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- If you don't think the pre-existing methods set in place for situations like this are sufficient, you can always raise that concern at the village pump or suggest a policy revision - however, SPI is the venue for these requests, and the only venue. The talk page can not substitute. m.o.p 17:10, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
76.228.226.122Thank you for blocking the anonymous user, who is being counterproductive and rude. (although I think the block should have been one week, but I guess ok at least)
Can you also please try to hide the edit summaries of these edits if possible?
This and
this
Thanks and regards, talk 05:04, 26 September 2011 (UTC)]
- I'll extend the block if this behaviour continues after the block period is over.
- As for the edit summaries, those don't warrant hiding - I apologize for their content, but they don't meet the criteria of what I should remove. It's best just to ignore them for now. Cheers, m.o.p 05:13, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
- Okay, good to know, if I did nothing wrong, no permanent block will be enforced. The IP does not volunteer on WP as an admin and so the disproportionately out of line comments and threats of his should be ignored. --talk 05:19, 26 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Sounds good. We only hide extremely offensive revisions; milder ones stay in the edit history. Thanks again for bringing this to our attention! Cheers, m.o.p 05:31, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
Email
Jasper Deng (talk) 05:29, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
- Reading. talk) 06:00, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Bad Girls Club
- I've blocked Junebea for 2 days for disregarding warnings. m.o.p 20:30, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks for helping :) Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 21:06, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkback
- And again.Griswaldo (talk) 04:24, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
- And again ... but maybe the last. You can settle this question once and for all. See the talk page.Griswaldo (talk) 06:09, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'm sure I'm not alone in wanting to hear your replies to the last responses posed to you at that page. IMO, I don't know why you went down the road you did, but as far as I can tell you're blatantly misrepesenting facts about your own actions when people are brining concerns to you. You might think that since you closed the RfC the matter is settled, but it is not. You're actions have not made my life any more pleasant in the last few days vis-a-vis trying to deal with Anupam's disruption and I think you owe us all answers. So please revisit this thread and deal with the open questions. Thanks.Griswaldo (talk) 02:19, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
- I invite you to stop asking the same question again and again. This would be appreciated. Thanks, m.o.p 02:33, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Block question
- No, I just block obviously bad-faith accounts on sight. Advertising/spam accounts fall under that category. m.o.p 00:37, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Thanks
- Thank you. I've unlocked the article for whatever may come. If I'm needed again, feel free to let me know. Thanks for the kind words again, m.o.p 05:12, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
reminder
- We're still waiting to see if the user understands COI policy (per Ed's question). I'll prod the user and see if they'll answer. talk) 19:20, 30 September 2011 (UTC)]
Nextel logo deleted
- Mmm, good point. What's the link to the logo in question? m.o.p 01:33, 2 October 2011 (UTC)
Support of Sage City SymphonyYou deleted this page before I had a chance to go back in and add the stuff that you wanted to see, including the links within Wikipedia to important composers such as Lou Callabro (who started this orchestra and cites it in his Wikipedia page) and Susan Hurley whose work we premiered (SC is also mentioned in her Wikipedia entry). (Let alone links about the works we have performed.) And we have a web site at www.sagecitysymphony.org, have existed for over 35 yrs and are a significant cultural resource in the Bennington area such that we receive grants from local, statewide and national foundations.
I broke my wrist last weekend and am doing one-handed pecking so it'll take me a few days to get that loaded in. We are going out for a bit now, but I would appreciate your undeleting the page so that I don't have to re-invent the starting part when I go back in tomorrow to add links. Or delete it entirely so that I can start fresh - at this point either would work as long as I can start some serious work on it tomorrow. I am the webmaster by the way, so I do have access to content and more links.
Thank you, Celia Murray — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.228.127.119 (talk) 14:22, 1 October 2011 (UTC)
- It looks like fixed everything up. Best of luck, m.o.p 01:35, 2 October 2011 (UTC)]
Reply on Deterence's talk page
MA
After the beating you took you deserve a cold one--on me! Thanks for being fair and balanced – Lionel (talk) 03:55, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
- Hey, thanks! Glad to help out. :) m.o.p 03:56, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
Deletion of Mau5trap Recordings
--neocharles (talk) 07:33, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Existence does not equal notability - the subject has to be notable to get a Wikipedia page. m.o.p 12:05, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
Questoin re: AIV
- Addendum, actually, I read it very clearly in WP:VANDNOT: "Uploading or using material on Wikipedia in violation of Wikipedia's copyright policies is prohibited, but is not vandalism unless the user does so maliciously or fails to heed warnings." So if a person fails to heed warnings it is vandalism. My mistake here was that I only warned once. --Muhandes (talk) 12:29, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Eh, technically it is vandalism, but the user seems to be trying to improve the Wikipedia - that desire to help is misplaced in this case, as they seem to think that using copyrighted content is actually better. Weird. For most cases, yes, you should report copyvio to AIV - as long as they've been warned sufficiently. m.o.p 12:42, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- OK, he now did it again and the time stamp is after your last warning. Is it vandalism now? --Muhandes (talk) 12:32, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Yeah, if they're outright ignoring warnings. I've blocked for three days. m.o.p 12:40, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
Classmusic
- Oh, I know. But if somebody's lied to my face about using another account - and to other editors working on the article - I'm not about to let them go without a repercussion or two. I'd like Almost-instinct and Voceditnore to look over the article and fix up anything shifty. Also, I'd like Classmusic to respond to my warning, instead of blanking it and ignoring like they have to the above-named editors.
- So, in short, I know that COI doesn't bar editing, but it's enough of a concern that, given the user's recent behaviour, I'll stop them from doing anything until we've figured things out. This isn't too rouge-y, is it? I didn't hear that. Perhaps he is unaware of the sockpuppet investigation findings. Anyhow it seems that DeltaQuad has also blocked the Classmusic account. I left a note on his page about using the unblock template, but re-iterated that he needs to read the COI and Autobiography guidelines and stick to them scrupulously, if he gets unblocked. In the Opera and Classical Music WikiProjects, we get a lot of articles for performers, ensembles, etc. created by their agents and PR people, and often themselves. In my experience, the best I can hope for after one of these tussles is that they'll edit their article according to the guidelines in future. I have yet to find a single one who has ever contributed anything else to Wikipedia. Their only interest in the project is as a PR tool. Having said that, at least it results (after much red-pencilling from other editors) in one new article on a notable subject that we didn't have before and in a small way redresses the pop culture systemic bias here. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 13:40, 5 October 2011 (UTC)]
Danish election
- Never mind, it's been pulled by another admin. All the best, Jenks24 (talk) 11:03, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry about that! I was busy all day and didn't get your message until now. Thanks for letting me know, though! Cheers, m.o.p 19:51, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
3RRHey there! :)
Well WP:CRYSTAL has wined down, however, there's currently a
The Bad Girls Club (season 7). I have notified the two users [32], [33]. The evidence can be found here. They are having an edit-conflict on how the "Duration of cast" should be presented. Since there's no rules regarding anything like that, and it was made up about a year ago, I couldn't warned them to stop their e/c with anything except the 3RR rule. Maybe they need an admin to tell them to stop, so that's why I came to you :) Thanks, Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 01:17, 6 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Temporary page protection requested. Calabe1992 (talk) 01:29, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
Helen Lucy Burke
Talkback
I did what you asked but the IP reverted it again. PTJoshua (talk) 21:09, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
- You're removing everything I say. Please don't do this. It isn't helpful. --86.45.75.42 (talk) 21:19, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
- I'll talk to them. Sit tight for a second. m.o.p 21:10, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
RE: Deletion of 48gogreen page :ApalejaHello,
Thank you for quick response. I appreciate your reason. but if you do some research you'll find more then 4 or 5 substantial mentions in local or international media - in a newspaper, on a notable website, etc. - to put forward this article.
There is a link on official website of company. http://www.48gogreen.com/static/web
Looking forward for your response. thank you in advance to undelete article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Apaleja (talk • contribs) 08:03, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
Here are some articles from International Press (you can use Google translator-if you use chrome it'll provide option immediately):
http://www.regione.emilia-romagna.it/wcm/cinema/sezioni_primopiano/PrimoPiano/Gadoev.htm
http://domani.arcoiris.tv/girano-un-corto-in-48-ore-e-arrivano-dritti-a-cannes/
http://www.close-up.it/spip.php?article6724
http://www.flashvideo.it/news/9/2578/
http://www.radioemiliaromagna.it/cultura/cinema/videomaker_bolognesi_cannes_corto_ecologico.aspx
Also if YOU HAD READ careful our site you should have see the Press link (those are press links not blogs) with all these web press: http://www.48gogreen.com/static/web
Thank you — Preceding unsigned comment added by Apaleja (talk • contribs) 08:22, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
Final warning On Edit Warring of Efik language disputeIf My Reporting a false article is the reason you want to block me. Then Go ahead and BLOCK me.- I can be Block because I don't care to be part of a web/Encyclopedia of Lies! Although I have contributed anonymously to wikipedia since 2008, I only just signed on a few weeks ago to report an error that I thought was made. But you and your other BIASED administrators have refused to fix this error, instead you're all threatening to block me.
- : According to Wikipedia A false statement/article is removed immediatley it is realized. Yet as am reporting it you all are threatening me for causing disruption.
- You all are saying that I called I called Kwami Slow, Dumb etc. Yet Kwami used the words Ignorance first.
"As for Ukwa, your ignorance is not evidence of anything".
- What is the meaning of IGNORANCE? S/He also said;
"But we cannot have the same article under two names, nor an article on Ibibio-Efik that does not include Ibibio, nor an article on Efik that does not include Efik. A little common sense would be helpful."
- What is meaning of Common sense? Or because Kwami put it very nicely, and mine wasn't? Also I wasn't blanking the Efik page, since I just signed on it takes me a long while to write up an article. According to the statements above, Kwami said I could develop articles on Efik and Ibibio, that is what I was doing when you or your other BIASED administrators returned the articles back to the re-direct.
- : Since wikipedia says a false statement is fixed immediately it is reported, I explained out the mistakes, but Kwami kept insisting that me a native who speaks these languages was wrong and asked for sources. I provided the sources and Kwami Called A brilliant Historian who is a Million times more knowledgable than Kwami on the language;
"utterly ignorant AND not some random idiot who posted a web page".
- Yet you and your other Biased colleges are claiming that am the one attacking Kwami and causing a disruption.
- : Am done with Wikipedia, am going to be taking this issues to the Founder/head by email, once the Ibibio union are involved it might become a legal matter if Wikipedia still continues to portray this misleading information.
I will take this matter to the heads by Email first because they might not be aware of what you all supposed administrators are doing to their image. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ibibiogrl (talk • contribs) 21:41, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
Hi Mops,
Pls read my comments on the ANI page. I think Ibibiogrl means well, she just needs some guidance, and she's not willing to take it from me. — kwami (talk) 22:17, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
- Obviously we would like to have contributors from that part of the world, but Ibibiogrl's record here is so unpromising that I think we need good assurances that something will change in the future. (I would welcome any evidence that Ibibiogrl means well. It is hard to improve the encyclopedia when you have no interest in or respect for its policies. Read her statement above if you are uncertain about that). Mentorship has value only for someone who understands that something has gone wrong and would be willing to work with a mentor. EdJohnston (talk) 22:46, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
- I agree with Ed in this case - I have no grudge against Ibibiogrl, but the editor's attitude, despite multiple pleas for otherwise, remained combative and even insulting at points. If there's a serious expression of guilt and the editor decides they'd like to walk a different path, I'd be happy to help. However, as it is now, I believe the block should stand. m.o.p 22:52, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
- I agree that it would require some indication that she wants help. Just my 2¢ as the person she's most upset with. — kwami (talk) 23:05, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
- For the record, your input is highly appreciated, and very admirable; as the editor in conflict with her, I respect your neutrality and helpfulness. As for Ibibiogrl, we'll see where that goes. Cheers! m.o.p 00:59, 17 June 2011 (UTC)
Can you adopt me i want a new adopter.
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Mr. Pit (2nd nomination)
This isn't personalI belive the AFD on Campaign for "santorum" neologism was closed way to early and am contesting your close.
An editor has asked for a deletion review of Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2011 June 21. Because you closed the deletion discussion for this page, speedily deleted it, or otherwise were interested in the page, you might want to participate in the deletion review. KoshVorlon' Naluboutes Aeria Gloris 12:17, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
James Ball
Thank you for your concern. But I will not be blocked - _I am adding_ wikipedia to adblock. I also feel regret for having donated to the site before, but this will not happen again. Demonuminon (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 23:25, 23 June 2011 (UTC).
Thomas James BallWhy the hell did you delete his page?
Does his suffering mean nothing to you?
Heartless bitch. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.57.206.141 (talk • contribs)
Hey, Master of Puppets, OBVIOUSLY there is a public interested in keeping this article. Restore your deletion. Look at the massive flood of comments regarding your deletion here: http://www.<linkremoved>.com/2011/06/24/the-organized-silencing-of-a-man-publicly-burned-to-death/ and here http://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/i81rw/the_organized_silencing_of_a_man_publicly_burned/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Romerom (talk • contribs) 20:05, 24 June 2011 (UTC)
- Ball HIT A FOUR-YEAR-OLD CHILD, refused to pay child support, called for insurrection, demanded terrorism and violence as a solution, ultimately killed himself (leaving his children without a father) and damaged public property in the process. Even after all that, his incoherent message has mostly been ignored except by the less discriminating people claiming to speak for "men's rights" who haven't bothered to look into the details of his case. (If you really want to damage your cause, adopt a grown man who hits his own four-year-old child and flakes out on his child support as your poster boy.) --Orange Mike | Talk 20:26, 24 June 2011 (UTC) (proud father who has never hit his child in his lifetime)
Hey, "proud father who never hit his child in his lifetime", not everybody is against disciplining their children by spanking. He said his daughter was licking his hand, and he had told her repeatedly to stop. She didn't, and he smacked her. He didn't punch her, or send her to the hospital, or cause any serious injury. Just enough to have his wife baited into calling the police on him by child protective services. As for child support, he paid his child support until the point where he wasn't able to afford it due to an employment issue. Is that such a crazy thing to have happen? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.211.155.1 (talk) 04:28, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
- Again, while I do sympathize with the family and supporters, I am not taking sides, nor do I have any bias in this situation. I am not a feminist, nor am I a misogynist - I am fair and neutral towards all people, whether they be abusive fathers or abused fathers.
- This deletion was enforced solely in keeping with Wikipedia's long-established policies. Mr. Ball's death, while indeed tragic, was not reported throughout the reliable media enough to show his notability.
- I hope this makes sense to all those saddened by Mr. Ball's passing. Cheers, m.o.p 21:04, 24 June 2011 (UTC)
- I understand that you do not think that Mr. Ball's death is something that qualifies as an event and thus deleted said article. I disagree but I do see the merits of your argument. However, you claim to be unbiased in this debate and yet for someone who judges on the letter of the law you break the law and close debate 2.5 days before final judgment is to be rendered. If you have no corner then I ask why make this article a special case that it must be quelled , by your own admission, 2.5 days before any other articles found in similar circumstances are voted upon. I petition you to reinstate and allow the normal course of the discussion continue for the 2.5 days, allow the full opportunity for the pro side to make their case then recluse yourself from the final judgment. This is the only way to ensure transparency so that your claim of neutrality can be believed. CaffOMHW (talk) 03:28, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
- Ahead of things, let me tell you that I appreciate the civility.
- Wikipedia's policies aren't law - they're guidelines. As an administrator, it's my job to apply policy in a way that is completely devoid of bias and benefits the encyclopedia as a whole.
- On a side note, the deletion nomination was closed 1.5 days before the normal time. The page had a whole work week to be saved, rewritten or reworked; however, due to the lack of outside sourcing that carried reliability, there was nothing to keep that wasn't editorialized or unencyclopedic. I would also like to point out that almost every account that voiced their opinion in the 'keep' spectrum had either only edited that page or had edited very little aside from the page. Meanwhile, the deletion argument was put forward by experienced users.
- Though I understand that some people take offense to my early closure, I assure them that one extra day would not have yielded success, and that I took many factors into consideration before closing the discussion.
- Again, thank you for the civility, but I won't be overturning judgment or recreating a deletion discussion at this date. m.o.p 08:17, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
ITNthx for the 2 quick updates of my nom ;)
but also can you see the bolivia one. its got support and very nearly out of the news. we could tack it nearer the border.Lihaas (talk) 22:26, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
Ball closure.
Thank God you are an ambassador for WP, and against censorship, MoP. When Wikipedia fails, and it eventually will, it will largely be because most people don't like to be gamed and would rather not read well cultivated information that is maintained by dishonest brokers who hide behind rules that are never applied in an even-handed manner. The idea that a story is not relevant merely because it is not yet encyclopedic is ridiculous when one sees all the articles which linger on for months or years in the same state. The idea that a story is not relevant because the motivations/justifications of the user are suspect would be grounds for eliminating half the biographical articles in WP. It smacks of an agenda. The appearance of impropriety is as bad as actual impropriety.173.78.20.96 (talk) 04:51, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
- I appreciate the feedback.
- I do my best to maintain an equal, proportionate response in all dealings on Wikipedia; I don't defend things I like, or attack things I dislike, just for the reason of screwing with people. That strikes me as childish. Instead, the most I can do is try to help others understand Wikipedia policies, which are generally mind-bending and hard to grasp (for example, most people ask, "What's the reasoning a war hero isn't considered notable when Donkey Kong is?").
- Maybe one day the policies will change. I mean, most of these were written five, six year ago - the world's changing, and I expect they will with time. But, for now, the guidelines handle what comes in.
- Again, thanks for the input. I appreciate not being personally attacked - it makes it easier to reply. Cheers, m.o.p 05:08, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Natami (2nd nomination)
- The close was thoroughly thought-out, so there's not much ground for me to explore that I haven't already. If you're set on going to DRV, there's nothing I can say which will change your mind, and it's your right to ask for a review. However, current consensus sits at delete (unless the 'keep' side is hiding an ace-in-the-hole reliable source or something). Cheers, m.o.p 04:55, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- So, what about the reliable sources we already brought up in the AfD such as this interview in Amiga Future or this news article from nr2.ru? We've already established that Amiga Future isn't sponsored by a hardware company as one !voter there falsely claimed. On a related note, did you discount the !votes from individuals making misleading statements or those claiming there were "no independent reliable sources"? (I could tell you how that !voter happened to show up there, but he isn't going to like it.) I could also link to forum posts by another delete !voter who showed up there who was very much into a "delete at any cost" mode because he doesn't like "amiga clones". --Tothwolf (talk) 05:11, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- Those sources were there before the previous close, and I, like the previous administrator, do not think they're strong enough.
- I've already covered what kind of rationale was discounted and what wasn't.
- As for your last statement about other editors - I'm not quite sure what your point is, but I don't think it's relevant. As I said, I've discounted any rationale that does not apply policy.
- Cheers, m.o.p 05:33, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- Uh, no...nr2.ru was only brought up in the second AfD. Strong enough is also an argument to be made in a !vote, not a closing statement. --Tothwolf (talk) 05:56, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- My apologies, the Russian source was indeed added after the first AfD. Still too shaky for a stand-alone article, though. Cheers, m.o.p 13:42, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- To follow up on my earlier comment, while I don't really want to get into an "X did this because of Y" sort of thing with regards to this AfD, there were a number of delete !voters who showed up there for personal reasons/vendettas/bias and/or who made false statements about sources. Despite the template at the top of the AfD, the second AfD also didn't suffer from the forum canvassing that the first did. One of the delete !voters actually came by way of the forum and first AfD and was trolling because of his personal dislike of Amiga clones. --Tothwolf (talk) 15:33, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
If they have valid, policy-based rationale, their personal motivation doesn't matter, solely for the reason that an encyclopedia based on liking or disliking things would crumble instantly. I'm sure some of the deletion crew could just-as-easily blame keep voters for being enthusiasts and fans of Natami - but that's not important. As a result, making allegations of personal bias is unnecessary. The help is appreciated, but there's nothing I can do with the information. m.o.p 15:39, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- It matters when someone makes false statements and tries to hide what they are doing behind policy. As for keeps, quite a number appear to be from well established editors who don't appear to be all that interested in Amiga topics. As for myself, I wasn't even aware of NatAmi until the first AfD and didn't even !vote in the first AfD since I thought it was pretty obvious it was headed for a no-consensus close. --Tothwolf (talk) 15:58, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- Again, if their rationale is grounded in policy, their motivation does not matter, simply because it's impossible to discern someone's intent through text, and because the second someone accuses another of favoritism/malicious intent the entire argument turns into a bunch of people shouting, "You're lying." That's why there's nothing I can do with your information in this case. Cheers, m.o.p 16:02, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- Apologies to you, M.O.P., for addressing another editor on your talk page, but I just wanted to jump in this conversation. Tothwolf, with no prejudice against you at all I strongly suggest you take this in perspective. There have been two AFDs and an ANI report over this article. The way you treated me on my talk page threatening DRV because I was a new administrator was, as I feel it, borderline harassing. That you canvassed two other administrators to talk to me was also a below the belt move. In good faith, I relisted the debate and it has closed again as delete. I strongly suggest taking the advice at WP:DGAF into account here and let the issue go. I don't think there will be a problem recreating this article, even pulling the old content back from the deletion log, when the subject has better sources in a broader community. I hold no ill feeling toward you, this is purely honest advice.--v/r - TP 16:46, 27 June 2011 (UTC)]
- TParis, while you are correct in that this talk page is not the place for this, because you brought this up here and you seem to value honest feedback, I'll address this here.
In no way did I ever threaten you with DRV, let alone because you were a new administrator (discussion in question). I did however upon noticing that you had passed RFA only days earlier decide it best not to press you further in public and instead sent you this short email: "Sigh. I just noticed you just finished your RFA. The Natami AfD was a bad AfD to pick to close right out of the gate. It is likely to end up at DRV and given the magazine I mentioned, overturned. I really wish you would reconsider your close. You might have noticed I didn't even !vote in the AfD itself, however I did point out a number of things and took a couple of people to task for making false or misleading statements." That is the only email I sent you about the matter and not once did I ever threaten you with DRV. Please get your facts correct before making statements such as this because such mistakes can have a negative effect on others.
After you replied expressing your disagreement over the sources (and implied that I might be biased because I sometimes contribute to computing-related articles) I asked a number of other administrators (way more than two, actually) what they thought of the AfD's close because I wanted unbiased feedback to see if I was somehow totally off-track before I initiated a DRV. The feedback I got was fairly unanimous in that the close was problematic. Before I had a chance to draft a DRV however, you reverted your own close and relisted the AfD from scratch with a new listing. In no way did I ever "canvass" anyone to "talk to you" and if others did contact you directly, they did so at their own discretion and for their own reasons.
There indeed have been two AfDs, the first of which you closed (although one could also argue that the second was merely a relist of the first). The AN/I "discussion" you also mentioned wasn't really over this article or the first AfD, it was an attempt by someone to game AN/I when they were unable to bully me on their talk page. Please be more careful making these sort of blanket statements in the future because as I mentioned above such statements can cause problems for others. --Tothwolf (talk) 17:38, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- You're email was exactly like your reply here. You like to make threats without actually making them: "such statements can cause problems". There is very little way your email cannot be interpreted as anything other than a threat of DRV because I am a new administrator. This is all I'll say on M.O.P.'s talk page as I came here to offer honest advice and you don't seem interested in it. If you'd like to discuss further with me, you know where to find my talk page.--v/r - TP 17:51, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- TParis, in no way did I ever make an implied threat. While I may be a little blunt and abrasive at times (or maybe I'm just an assume good faith in that you simply misremembered the facts I outlined above when you made this statement here. It is easy to forget a few details here or there and not everyone maintains detailed notes for this sort of stuff (I do, for a number of reasons, although I didn't always).
As far as honest advice goes, this is a two-way street and I gave you my opinion as well. If you choose to ignore and discount it, so be it, but I'd suggest you be much more careful in the future and get your facts correct before you make the sort of statement you made above. Such statements can and do cause problems for other editors. Who knows, it may just be that you've not been around long enough yet to have witnessed people blocked or punished in some way because someone else didn't have their facts together. (If you do decide you want to continue this discussion, perhaps we should take this elsewhere.) --Tothwolf (talk) 18:14, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
]
Heaton Park Hebrew Congregation (2nd nomination)
Natami
Thought you might want to know
- (talk page stalker) That's just the same little ideological website which has been pushing for the "Martyrdom of St. Thomas Ball" attention since day one; no actual new coverage. --Orange Mike | Talk 14:34, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
- I guess I should also mention that the way I found it, was that someone tried submitting it to Fark.com last night. The admins did not greenlight it, so that particular submission/thread did not go to the main Fark page, appearing only to those with Totalfark accounts. The submission said something like "Wikipedia deletes burning man" (I'm not at a computer with TF access so I might not have that exactly right). It might, theoretically, based on the submission, be considered some sort of off-site canvassing (it was submitted with the asinine tag). For what its worth, the thread went uncommented, so I don't think that particular attempt garnered any support. I just wanted to drop a line in case that this was just the first drop of a large storm. If I see anything else, I'll drop a line here. Umbralcorax (talk) 15:58, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
Wiki ad
4chan raid
Thomas James Bell, new information
- (reliable sources. --Orange Mike | Talk 13:33, 30 June 2011 (UTC)]
Happy Birthday
![](//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3d/Nuvola_apps_cookie.svg/50px-Nuvola_apps_cookie.svg.png)
Just a happy Birthday message to you, Master of Puppets, from the Wikipedia Birthday Committee! Have a great day!
Monterey Bay (talk) 02:00, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
User:BillyMoses
Natami
AFD
- Your input is appreciated, though there's nothing I can do with it but take a note. If you'd like, you can weigh in at the next AfD(s), when/if they arise. Cheers, m.o.p 19:42, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
Dr Myko San – Health from Mushrooms
- I'd be happy to help! However, I'm currently away from a computer (typing this on my phone), so I'll have to check in on the 11th of July. Does that sound okay? m.o.p 15:40, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
- wp:NODEADLINE :-) LeadSongDog come howl! 15:48, 7 July 2011 (UTC)]
From a former Wikipedian
-71.234.90.0 (talk) 04:50, 8 July 2011 (UTC)
- Hey, thanks so much! I'm not sure who you are, but I really appreciate the sentiment. Hope all is well! m.o.p 20:49, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
Deletion review for Thomas James Ball
DRV comment
DRV
Could you please overturn the deletion of these files per File:Signature of Amitabh Bachchan.svg and File:Signature of Zakir Hussain.svg:
- File:Signature of Vishwanathan Anand.svg
- File:Signature of Vijay Mallya.svg
- File:Signature of Venkaiah Naidu.svg
- File:Signature of Sudeep Bandhopadhyay.svg
- File:Signature of Sonia Gandhi.svg
- File:Signature of Somnath Chatterjee.svg
- File:Signature of Ratan Tata.svg
- File:Signature of Kumar Mangalam Birla.svg
- File:Signature of Rajeev Shukla.svg
- File:Signature of Raj Babbar.svg
- File:Signature of Rahul Gandhi.svg
- File:Signature of Priyanka Vadra.svg
- File:Signature of P. T. Usha.svg
- File:Signature of Narendra Modi.svg
- File:Signature of Nandan Nilekani.svg
- File:Signature of Manish Tewari.svg
- File:Signature of Leander Paes.svg
- File:Signature of Lata Mangeshkar.svg
- File:Signature of Kumar Mangalam Birla.svg
- File:Signature of Karia Munda.svg
- File:Signature of Kapil Sibal.svg
- File:Signature of Kamal Nath.svg
- File:Signature of K. Kamraj.svg
- File:Signature of Jaya Bachchan.svg
- File:Signature of Gautam Gambhir.svg
- File:Signature of Brinda Karat.svg
- File:Signature of Bharatsinh Solanki.svg
- File:Signature of Bhairon Singh Shekhawat.svg
- File:Signature of B. K. Birla.svg
- File:Signature of Azim Premji.svg
- File:Signature of Arun Jaitely.svg
- File:Signature of Aishwarya Rai Bachchan.svg
- File:Signature of Abhishek Manu Singhvi.svg
- File:Signature of Abhishek Bachchan.svg
- File:Signature of Sting.svg
- File:Signature of Br. L. D. Lobo.svg
- File:Signature of VJ Rannvijay Singh Singha.svg
Diligent07Appears to be less than new. See User talk:Raoulduke25 where he states that this is a deliberate series of edits.
- Can you please help defend our collective effort of including the obscene middle-finger incident in the Cheney Mason article? It should be maintained in the article for public interest, etc. Please see the Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard#Cheney Mason discussion page and include your thoughts in favor of having the content remain in the interests of the public, etc
[8], [9] and even imputation that an editor has a connection with the person [10]. He has been on since April, and started off as being experienced on WP IMHO. Kindly keep an eye out please. Especially for any sign of a real "collective effort"? Such as [11]? Cheers. Collect (talk) 11:36, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
A cookie for you!
Keep up the good work defending the "Wiki" against genre warriors. Thanks for the help! talk) 17:31, 13 July 2011 (UTC)]
Hello. You have a new message at Lionelt's talk page.
Semi protection
OK, this thing with the militant atheism page is impossibleThese guys are incredible... I could dig up diffs to show you how they revert and wikilawyer even the SMALLEST attempt to move the article closer to NPOV. But that would take a long time for you to read. How about I show you this instead:
These guys are utterly without scruples. Who in their right mind would remove the NPOV dispute tag when heated arguments have been raging for weeks and NO moves whatsoever have been made to fix the article? Oh right, that would be someone in their right mind who is running a propaganda platform.
Anyway... I wanted to ask your advice on what to do. These guys are impossible to work with. Most of the other editors have given up and refuse to put this page on their watchlist. So what to do then? Request formal mediation? Articles for deletion? Something else?
Me and the other editors would like to see the page replaced with a disambiguation page... since literally ALL the content has already been covered (better) in Criticism of atheism, State atheism and New Atheism.
Obhave (talk) 13:21, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
- Hello User:Master of Puppets. I noticed this conversation and thought I might add that an NPOV policy. Obhave (talk) 13:11, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
- One more thing, m.o.p... my opponents are currently twisting your words to make it look as if you were scolding user:Mann_jess all along. Obhave (talk) 14:42, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
]
User:Jasper Deng page protection
- No worries! m.o.p 19:35, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
Is there a procedure for brutal uncollaborated editing with a destructive intent?I noticed that you recently had problems with proposed brutal editing by Peter S Strempel. Although he has been more sensible on your project in the end (possibly because of your administrator status?) he has not been so with regard to the astrology project pages to which he made a similar 'razor-promise'. Could you please see this Afd request which is one of three he made for major 'history of astrology' articles within the last hour, with a promise on another important page that any comment which is not refrences within 7 days will be removed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Babylonian_astrology
Is there anything that can be done about this officially to stop him wreaking havoc with content whilst he knows that the small group of editors providing content on these pages are already stretched to the limit trying to keep up with what needs to be done? I don't understand what drives some people to want to edit WP like this, but I think it is entriely the result of his ego-stress that when he proposed an edit for a passage, no one favoured it. Hope you can help or advise Zac Δ talk 01:15, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks! assume good faith; I believe that Peter is simply trying to help improve Wikipedia. While his methods may be lacking in some areas, he has displayed a pretty decent grasp on the policies he's trying to enforce.
- However, I agree that he shouldn't be making any changes if they're not discussed with the community first. Do you mind pulling up a few diffs of where he went against consensus? I'll approach him with your concern then. Thanks, m.o.p 03:57, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
- Actually there hasn't been any significant content dispute with Peter. He proposed a change to a section edit which wasn't a very good proposition and a few editors commented but without rancur, and I added a new section post immediately afterwards to point out the proiposed change would contradict with how the definition was given correctly at a later point in the article, outlining how I understood WP policy expected the main astrology article to pull its own content together, along with its summarised content from its daughter pages. Peter never responded to this but other editors started working in that direction immediately. Then, without further discussion or comment, Peter came back four days later to announce an intention to take his 'word razor' to all unreferenced assertions on the main astrology page, its sub-pages, and the portal page itself, to ensure his perceived disagreement was not circumvented in pages he viewed as content forks (I'm still not sure what he means by that). My response to that can be seen - a perfectly reasonable request for him to do what he felt was most productive, but consider that citation-tagging was the way to go. I also placed comments on his talk-page, which you can read if you are interested. That he erupted into a frenzy of AfD requests last night says something, I think, about his unwillingness to discuss and engage in other views. Most of his posts appear as new section declarations that don't appear to have considered the responses other editors give him.
- I've summarised this in the ANI request Dougweller started. The deletion requests were a step too far IMO, and I'm concerned that Peter would spring to such drastic measures in reaction to what he perceives to be me not allowing him to do what he wants to do. I'll be away for a few days so I'm tying up my WP activity now. That underlines my concern that he intends to take such drastic action with only one week's notice of intent. Thanks for looking into this. It would be good if something could be proposed to stop huge problems before they occur. 10:35, 22 July 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zachariel (talk • contribs
)
- One last request. I have just noticed that a related complaint, which is quite serious but has been sidetracked (deliberatly IMO) by Peter's suggestions that I have prevented him from doing what he wants, has been collapsed as "going nowehere" by an unsympathetic editor.
- "Its ben here several days and no admin has even sniffed at a block or ban - clearly you're not going to get admin action. So this should got to WP:DR or WP:RFCU if you want to take it further. I've boldly collapsed this, though I won't be surprised if someone uncollapses it"
- If you can find the time could you at least take a look at that related problem, and consider uncollapsing it, because the issues are serious and have gone beyond the point where Dispute resolution are appropriate. I will be away and have nothing more to add, but the problems identified still remain. Zac Δ talk 10:58, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
What to do?
- I've started a threat at ANI. Those AfDs are purely pointy and if no one objects I'll close them. talk) 06:11, 22 July 2011 (UTC)]
- Replied there. m.o.p 08:20, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
Talk Page on Militant Atheism - Introduction Section
- The update is appreciated, thanks very much. I've been dealing with life for the past two weeks, but I'll be back to close that discussion tonight or tomorrow. Thanks again, m.o.p 22:03, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
- Just bringing this up again, given the current state of this section. I believe the discussion will be archived automatically if not closed. I'm sorry if I sound pushy with you having a lot on your plate of late. If you would prefer, I could alert User:Fastily instead. Turnsalso (talk) 16:55, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
ITN
- I knew that tab I closed had unfinished business on it... thanks. 2008 University of Central Arkansas shootings is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.
The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2008 University of Central Arkansas shootings(2nd nomination) until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on good quality evidence, and our policies and guidelines.
Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article.
talk 14:00, 1 September 2011 (UTC)]
Hey
- Done! Both your userpage and the transcluded page are protected. Cheers, « ₣M₣ » 04:09, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Restored. m.o.p 05:21, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
]
User talk:Joshua the Independent
- My mistake - my block script auto-filled the edit summary. The block was issued due to the user's newfound will to disrupt Wikipedia intentionally. Their previous contributions are welcome, but this behaviour necessitates administrative action. m.o.p 21:52, 13 September 2011 (UTC)
Say hi to your imaginary girlfriend for me
- Well, I do love getting hate mail. Thanks for the laugh! Cheers, m.o.p 05:17, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
...further to the above lovely note, I weighed in on Calabe's talk page - there appears to be more confusion here than at first glance. bou·le·var·dier (talk) 05:19, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
Sorry to drop by again, but Silentsizzlingsausage (talk · contribs) would appear to be a duck. bou·le·var·dier (talk) 05:31, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
- No, it's not an issue! Thanks for the note, blocked. Cheers, WP:SPI. Thanks again, m.o.p 06:13, 14 September 2011 (UTC)]
I have to admit ...
- See the above section. The link is apparently a very subtle spam link that Calabe is removing, and socks are springing up to revert him. Swarm u / t 10:20, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
Moderation
- Alright, I'll make my way back. Thanks for letting me know! m.o.p 05:18, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
User:12.139.96.228
- To be honest, this case is perplexing. Half of this user's edits are constructive (mostly sourced), the other half aren't sourced - and the user won't reply to anybody. I'm also too busy to go through every edit and confirm whether or not it's good. I forgot about this for a while - I'll think about it tonight and figure something out for tomorrow. Thanks for reminding me! m.o.p 05:18, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
Whoops
- Whoops! Must not have been looking when I ran my block script. Thanks for letting me know, I've reblocked them for a far shorter (technically, an infinitely shorter) time. Cheers, m.o.p 22:58, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
Ashleyleggat404
- You're fully right in that the blanking policy covers indefinite blocks. I've removed the user's talk page rights as a result. Thanks again! m.o.p 00:28, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkback
Moderation
- If you look into this please consider whether Anupam's actions on the talk page and the entry itself are violations of WP:OWN. He's been driving off those he disagrees with by bludgening them to death with argument and heavily policing the entry claiming that there is a consensus written in stone despite many dissenting voices. Others have taken to simply calling him "the article's owner." I have had enough of this behavior personally and left him a message about it on his talk page. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:52, 20 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Dear User:Master of Puppets, the above user has misrepresented the occurrences at the article. I started another Introduction discussion at the article's talk page but User:Griswaldo has chosen to edit war over a second NPOV tag, despite the fact that one already exists in the article. He has done so despite the fact that the Introduction is being discussed in a peaceful manner at the talk page, in violation of your injunction: "We've only got consensus on this proposed versions (and loose consensus at that) - please do not attempt to subvert said consensus by making undiscussed changes." I have posted a message on his talk page about this behaviour. Nevertheless, I also do not wish to argue with the user personally and would prefer if you could go back to moderating the discussion between the two parties at the talk page. Thanks for taking the time to read this message. With regards, AnupamTalk 20:58, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- His "injunction?" Adding a neutrality tag to a specific sentence which an editor disputes the neutrality of is hardly "subverting the consensus by making undiscussed changes." Please stop wikilawyering to get your way. There is a growing consensus against your position regarding this article in general as well, despite your aggressive policing of the entry and the talk page. See ]
- I just thought that I would mention that User:Griswaldo, after seeing this message, just now decided to comment in the discussion rather than edit war against consensus further. Thanks for taking the time to read this message. With regards, AnupamTalk 21:51, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- "Edit war against consensus further?" My comment there has nothing to do with your message here. I've made three total edits to this entry ever. One was a copy edit in June, another was reverting an IP vandal, and the third was the revert of your Ownership edit. Please do not insinuate that I'm a edit warrior on this page. It is disingenuous.Griswaldo (talk) 22:08, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Thank you all for approaching me with your concerns.
- Obviously, I do not support Anupam - this is because I'm remaining a neutral third party, and, therefore, can't take sides. However, Griswaldo: please keep in mind that I did ask for all discussion to take place on the talk page. Why not just add your complaints to the talk page? It would have been much easier to discuss.
- I do agree that adding a NPOV tag, while slightly redundant, isn't horrible, but your intent seems to have been to stir discussion on that particular section, discussion that would be much more appropriate on the talk page.
- As for your and Snalwibma's concerns of Anupam trying to 'own' the article, I'm curious as to what you two mean; what 'delusions'?
- Also, Griswaldo, I don't think Anupam meant to insinuate you are an edit warrior (though this is just my take) - rather, they wanted to add the note that you've weighed in on discussion. m.o.p 22:10, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- your intent seems to have been to stir discussion on that particular section - No that's incorrect. I didn't add this tag, I simply reverted Anupam's attempt to own the page when he removed it. I agreed with JimWae's addition of the tag and found Anupam's removal to be unwarranted and a display of ownership.Griswaldo (talk) 22:16, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Note that, for all intents and purposes, reverting somebody is adding whatever is included in your edit, regardless of who put it there first. You revert a removal, you're agreeing with the edition you're reverting to - simple.
- And, if you agreed with JimWae, then we go back to what I was saying earlier - say so on the talk page. Two of you agree? Great! That's closer to consensus. But it means nothing if you express your support by reverting removals.
- Again, as I've asked multiple times, please stop saying that Anupam is owning anything without giving me evidence of it first. m.o.p 22:22, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Dear User:Master of Puppets, thank you for your reply to all of us. The reason User:Snalwibma stated that I was attempting to "own" the article was because I reverted an undiscussed removal from the article, which not only myself, but two other users objected to. In fact, two anonymous IP Addresses also reverted User:Snalwibma. I was open to compromise on the issue and stated that I would accept User:Turnsalso's compromise on the issue. I kindly request you to look at that discussion yourself and get an honest reading of it. Also, the only reason I removed the second NPOV tag was because there was already one present, which I did not remove. I only reverted the addition of a second NPOV tag once and even explained myself on the talk page. When I went to the talk page, I found rude accusations and an anti-collaborative spirit, despite the fact that I have been nothing but polite. I hope this helps. With regards, AnupamTalk 22:25, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry - I know I should not rise to the bait, but I have to object to the comment "The reason User:Snalwibma stated that I was attempting to 'own' the article was because I reverted an undiscussed removal ..." How dare Anupam presume to know what is in my mind! The reason I describe Anupam's attitude to the article as one of ownership is because that is how s/he behaves - "policing" every edit, pronouncing on whether s/he "accepts" or "rejects" it, peremptorily reverting anything s/he does not like, without discussion, presuming to know others' motives, and judging them as fit/unfit to contribute to the article. This has been going on for weeks, if not months. It is impossible to discuss the content of the article, let alone improve the text, because everything is filtered through the approval/disapproval of the article's self-appointed guardian, Anupam. tendentious or disruptive when they bring up certain issues, even when they are clearly in the majority. That is not collaborative. I stopped editing the article heavily because of those issues. I don't have any delusions that my opinion is worth more than anyone else's here, but I would think that the large number of established, experienced editors who are all saying there's a problem, would indicate something. — Jess· Δ♥ 19:45, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
Please reconsider your full protection of Militant atheist
- In case you didn't notice, I asked that people think twice about pointing fingers at each other. If you'd like to start a sockpuppetry investigation, let me know, and we can take that avenue - however, don't accuse other editors of ownership without substance. If you think Anupam is trying to own things, give me something. Diffs, edits, anything. I'll check it out for you, but right now, baseless accusations are not what I'm looking for.
- Also, notice that I protected the article with your edit being the last one. How is that validating the very person you've been reverting?
- The protection will stay until consensus is reached. m.o.p 22:19, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Because protection is what he wants quite clearly. He's stalling conversation and shouting down people on the talk page, where, if you have a look, you'll see he's clearly in the minority. Because of your "injunction" as he calls it, he also claims that no matter how many people agree with a certain change it is illegitimate. I'll be happy to gather some diffs, but my first message to you above was to please look into the situation carefully before acting on it. Did you do that and come to the conclusion that I'm wrong or did you not head that request? Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:29, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Yes, I did heed your request. I don't see any ownership behaviour from Anupam, though, being involved in multiple disputes, I didn't have the time to read every last word on the page, so you're free to provide evidence. However, from what I can see, Anupam's last proposal was supported by the majority - not to count (and I don't mean to imply that I decide where consensus lies by looking at pure numbers), but from looking at pure supports versus opposes, eight people (nine including Anupam) support while four oppose. How does that make Anupam's views a minority? m.o.p 22:37, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- It depends on what view you are talking about. The current RFC on the introduction is something that most people don't even want to engage because most people think this very entry should be split up and integrated into other entries. I reluctantly engaged the RfC just now myself. The last time the more serious question about the entry was asked, several of the new commentators were not around, and there was "no consensus" found because the opposing side was chalk full of SPAs and editors with a view that is outright hostile to atheism (which is a legitimate view to hold, but it is a minority view). Let me find you some diffs.Griswaldo (talk) 22:43, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- User:Griswaldo, that is exactly the issue: you do not want to collaborate with other users on the talk page, which is why you were reluctant to participate in the current RfC. Moreover, there were several SPA's on the side of the opposition as well, including WP:NPOV. In addition, the split was again recently discussed and the specific case to do so was refuted by several editors. As such, there was no consensus for it. I hope this helps. With regards, AnupamTalk 22:52, 20 September 2011 (UTC)]
- No. You are trying to write an article that violates WP:SYNTH because it conflates New Atheism with oppressive communist regimes and their histories of violence. That's hardly NPOV. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:59, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
Hi m.o.p., as someone who occasionally looks at that page (and then washes my hands), I just want to compliment you as having done the right thing in full protecting. By way of unsolicited advice to the involved editors, the best thing they could do is to allow The Wrong Version to sit there a good long time, and devote their energy to other things. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:54, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
]
Yes, please reconsider your full protection of
WP:RS—deserve protection against misinformed reverts. Thanks Geremia (talk) 16:12, 22 September 2011 (UTC)]
Diffs of
- I'm not really sure where the ownership is here; nowhere in our policies is it stated that a user can't promote their RFC on the subject talk page. If it's ongoing and they'd like to move it to the forefront, what's wrong with that? More so, some of your summaries seem inaccurate - in that last diff, you state that Anupam is removing images, yet I only see Anupam adding an image (the peace dove that's at the top of the page). Also, you use repeating examples. m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Well clearly the last diff was wrong. Thanks for the vote of confidence. There are no repeat examples nor inaccurate summaries, just a mistaken copy paste of the second to last diff to the last position as well. I have fixed it. Cheers.
- Using "consensus claims from one RfC to reject changes made to article content
- Same as above. Using the "consensus" bludgeon to get his way. Please note that clearly we ought to edit by consensus, but this consensus is highly disputed, and IMO not there in the first place. The real problem is the way in which Anupam decides to use it like a trump card to remove changes he doesn't like. Ask yourself if all changes post "consensus" have been removed or just the ones Anupam decided he wanted removed.
Master of Puppets do you need more diffs or is this enough?Griswaldo (talk) 23:31, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Well I need more diffs because your "evidence" so far looks like a desperate attempt to incriminate an editor who has been very successful in persuading his colleagues to adopt his proposals. Anupam has presented his proposals, argued the merits and persuaded many editors. Anything you want to tell us about why you're having difficulty doing likewise? – Lionel (talk) 06:02, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- I don't see this is as conclusive evidence, either. And, it should be said - if people are editing against established consensus, then people are free to re-evaluate consensus, but edit-warring against it doesn't make much sense. m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- If not ownership then what is this - [28], [29], [30]? He removes two RfCs started by another editor, and revolving around the question that many of us actually find to be the fundamental question to answer regarding the entry. Then he edit wars to keep these RfCs off the page, claiming again to have some sort of authority stemming from your prior actions. If you aren't willing to do something here I'm going to another administrator and I'm going to ask for your initial "consensus," your strong arm administrating, and your lack of action here to be reviewed as well. Thanks.Griswaldo (talk) 17:08, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Anupam has already apologized for reverting those RfC additions, and we've moved past it. He also didn't claim to have administrative authority, but was waiting for my approval. We've cleared this up, it's not an issue. So no, I'm not going to take any action (as I've said here and on ANI). Now, if you'd like to threaten me and tell me that, since I'm not cooperating with your wills, you'll go to another administrator, that's fine - as I've said, you can seek outside opinions - but remember to keep a cool head, because borderline threats are not appreciated. m.o.p 21:49, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- It was not a threat, "borderline" or otherwise. You are conveniently ignoring a growing number of voices who are all saying the same thing - there is an ownership problem here. The deletion issue has not been "cleared up" as far as I'm concerned. Whenever it is mentioned Anupam insists that he did not "unilaterally" delete the RfCs from the page, which is a blatant distortion, since that is exactly what he did. He continues to act as a policeman at the page, and yes he does continue to cite your authority. Did you bother to read the many diffs I posted above in the second two sections? I will quote three random examples from those I provided for you if you want.
- When he first deleted the two RfCs he wrote: "rv - see discussion with reviewing administrator; approval needed to start another RfC while one is already occurring."
- When he deleted a fact tag that JimWae put into the lede: "rv excessive tagging per talk; tag is already extant in header; do not subvert previous consensus but gain consensus for potential additions per administrative notice"
- When he rejected another recent change to the entry: "accepted edits by User:Jkhwiki; rv removal of longstanding referenced content - see discussion on talk page and gain consensus for action per administrative injunction"
- In talk page comments and in edit summaries he consistently does the same thing. He refers to your authority, either directly or indirectly through your "notice" or your "injunction" as he likes to call it. I never said the claimed to have administrative authority, I said that he's using your authority, by way of your comments, such as the closure of the AfD to bully people. Do you deny that he citing your comments, because if you do then I must have fabricated those quotes. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:32, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
If you say "If you don't do A, then I'm going to go and do B", that's a threat. Anyway, that's not the issue - we've already covered all the issues with the RfC reverting, and Anupam won't do it again. Why keep raising hell over it?
We've already covered everything you bring up. And no, I'm not denying anything. I'm just saying this, and it's very simple: I don't think there has been any blatant ownership here. That's my judgment. If you disagree, again, feel free to raise this with another administrator or on ANI. m.o.p 23:12, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Regarding the new RFC, I still think there has not passed yet too much time since the last discussion about splitting the article. As far as I knew, repeating these sorts of debates (like splitting, deleting, renaming) before a larger amount of time has passed (like 6 months) is usually discouraged. And as others have also argued earlier, even if having multiple RFCs is possible, it's not very useful, and the new RFC seems to discourage further discussion about improving the lead introduction. So preventing multiple RFCs (and also a RFC about an issue debated not too long ago) does not look to me like evidence of bad faith intentions. Cody7777777 (talk) 21:37, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Cody, would you mind linking me to the previous RfC on splitting? m.o.p 21:49, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- The previous attempt to split the article can be found here. Cody7777777 (talk) 21:55, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Response
Yes, it does. Thanks, m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Dear User:Master of Puppets, I just noticed that User:Binksternet started another RfC while a current one is occurring. Is this appropriate? I reverted the addition motioning for one until your response is confirmed. If it is acceptable, then I apologize and will revert my edit. I look forward to your response. With regards, AnupamTalk 15:14, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'll form my reply on ANI. m.o.p 17:12, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- When you do please take into account my comment just above, regarding Anupam's edit warring to remove talk page comments (namely these RfCs) posted by others on the talk page. If you still don't think this is WP:OWN then clearly other administrators are needed here.Griswaldo (talk) 17:15, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Dear User:Griswaldo, how is going to a neutral mediator to address the issue owning the article? I acknowledge that the article is in dispute and as a result, I am asking an administrator for advice in this matter, NOT handling things on my own, as you have done by edit warring. Your WP:OWN allegations have not only been dismissed by this administrator, but by several other users, including, User:Lionelt, User:Cody7777777 and User:NYyankees51. Thanks, AnupamTalk 17:27, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- In reply to Griswaldo: reverting the RfCs was a mistake, but we've cleared that up now. As Anupam has stated at ANI, the intent was not to discourage discussion. If you think my judgment is compromised, you're welcome to seek another administrator's input. m.o.p 21:04, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- And as further evidence of WP:OWN, see this. Anupam adds a comment to everything that anyone else says, as if he/she is the owner of the article and everyone else is a subordinate contributor. This particular instance is pretty benign (although it clutters up the talk page with an unnecessary comment that merely says "I agree"), but I do think that Anupam at least needs to learn how to avoid giving the appearance of thinking he/she owns the article, and to desist from chipping in and saying the same thing over and over again, which almost makes meaningful discussion impossible! SNALWIBMA ( talk - contribs ) 17:31, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- While the input is appreciated, as I've said before, making allegations of ownership without hard evidence isn't going to get us anywhere. Anupam is not stopping others from discussing changes or forming consensus, and that's all that matters - refactoring the talk page or commenting on an issue is not against policy, and I'm not going to tell someone to stop editing because it "looks" like they're doing something wrong. As said above, you're welcome to request another administrator's insight if you wish. m.o.p 21:04, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
COIHi
you've helped me out before, with a conflict of interest problem, so having much more experience than me on wikipedia, I thought I would be bold enough to ask again for help.
Similar problem to last, User_talk:Hobbycraft is editing the HOBBYCRAFT article and making changes that aren't citably right. I think the user name suggest and history suggests a conflict of interest case.
Can you please, speak to them addressing this issue.
Thank you very much for your help.
Markcoulter50 (talk) 22:27, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
- I've blocked that user for username violations. Thanks a lot for letting me know! Keep up the great work, m.o.p 23:00, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkbackcausa sui (talk) 18:47, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Hello. You have a new message at causa sui's talk page. causa sui (talk) 20:54, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Problematic editing on militant atheism
- I hope it's not considered defamatory to repeat the final line: "I merely present the diffs above, and let others draw their own conclusions. Is this a duck? Does it quack? You decide.". Unfortunately, the concerned community no longer has that opportunity. What did you decide on their behalf? Does this duck quack, or not? bobrayner (talk) 15:42, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- It's not your wording, it's the very idea of it. Going to what's allegorically a public place and shouting, "Hey, everybody, this man is a criminal!" is one step below blatantly forming a lynch mob. As I've said, I have no problem with your wording or evidence, just your location of choice. Wikipedia is not, unfortunately, a democracy - letting others draw their conclusions and voice their opinions is not how a sockpuppet investigation works.
- So yes, please don't go restoring any of that section. We're not discussing editors, we're discussing the content they produce. Anything else has a sub-board to deal with it (like WP:SPI).
- Hopefully that clears things up! I'll be happy to answer any more questions should you have them. Cheers, m.o.p 15:48, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Hello User:Bobrayner, I noticed the section you created on the militant atheism talk page. If you do feel the way you do about User:Turnsalso and the anonymous IP Addresses, you can take this up with WP:SPI. Thanks, AnupamTalk 15:52, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
Are you kidding my MoP? Above your write: Going to what's allegorically a public place and shouting, "Hey, everybody, this man is a criminal!" is one step below blatantly forming a lynch mob. AND We're not discussing editors, we're discussing the content they produce. Yet you call this edit by Lionelt "good faith," at WQA? MoP, I would not ask you to agree with me or to like me, but can I please ask you not to insult me with these double standards.Griswaldo (talk) 16:18, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
]
- Griswaldo, I mean no offense when I say this, but I'd appreciate it if you stayed out of discussions which didn't involve you. Also, please don't put words in my mouth. Thanks, m.o.p 16:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I have not put words in your mouth. You said that you would assume good faith about Lionel. If you "assume good faith" it means you assume his edits were in "good faith." If you did not intend that meaning I suggest you reconsider what you wrote. Also, if you want me to "stay out of discussion which don't involve me" then I suggest your first order of business should be to do the same thing yourself. You decided to post at WQA, when there was no mention of you or anything you've done in that thread. Once again, I expect people not to practice double standards. So as long as you cannot show me that you will treat me as you ask to be treated yourself, I will not oblige you. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:21, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Please stop bickering. I'm not quite sure what you're trying to accomplish here. I've already explained what I meant when I said assuming good faith, but I'll explain again: I assumed that Lionelt was not hounding or deliberately haranguing you. I did not say, at any point, that his edit content was good faith, and I've told him not to edit like that again. So please stop accusing me of saying things I haven't said.
- Also, I posted in WQA because, as a mediator in this case and as an administrator, it's my duty to weigh in on administrative noticeboards, especially when the case is an ongoing discussion I've been participating in for three months. It is not your duty to weigh in on discussions on my talk page that don't concern you. I hope the distinction is clear here. m.o.p 20:33, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I think you are confused about something. Content is never good faith. "Editing in good faith" and "good faith edits" refers to the intent of the editor always. It has nothing to do with content. My assumption that you also felt the edits were appropriate comes from the fact that you did not say they weren't appropriate and clearly feel that his intentions were good. If you'd like to set the record straight on that issue you still can. I've asked you twice now to discuss the actual edits that are the focal point of the thread. Also, I moved the thread to ANI, per the suggestion of the editor who marked it "resolved."Griswaldo (talk) 20:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- See Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#User:Lionelt_--_following_my_past_edits_to_drum_up_support_against_me. FYI, I copy pasted the entire discussion because both you and Collect were critical of my initial post and I thought it was the right thing to do to preserve that criticism in the record of the conversation. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:43, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- In reply to your first paragraph: I'm going to give up now, as it seems you're misunderstanding most of what I type, but you're the one who stated that the content was not good faith (as you said, not appropriate), and I agreed - I referred to his intent in replying to you, and said that I assumed good faith in his motives, not his replies. I can't really say that in a clearer way, so my apologies if it's hard to understand. Also, as I've already said, I've left a message for Lionelt about his edits, so clearly I do not feel they're appropriate. m.o.p 20:57, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I, too, find these double standards vexing.
- Which diff is defamatory?
- I had hitherto thought that people on the article talkpage might like to be aware of potential problems with votestacking on the article talkpage (and 3rr evasion, of course). Would it be permitted to add a link to that list of diffs when it's in a different place, or would you consider that defamatory too? bobrayner (talk) 16:23, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- As I said, the information is not defamatory, but the way it's presented is - we have specific processes available to pursue should one feel there are sockpuppets about. However, calling someone out with the intent of informing the community is overstepping your authority and damaging to the accused's character. Also, there's no way a community discussion about whether or not one editor is a sockpuppet can end in anything other than a sockpuppet investigation anyway.
- So, in closing, please don't bring issues like this to the talk page. If you're concerned about votestacking, take it to the appropriate venue - if your concerns are validated, we'll take measures against said puppets. Cheers, m.o.p 16:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I am very disappointed that it's no longer permissible to raise problems with article-editing on the article talkpage. Previous concerns about sockpuppetry were simply ignored; the difference this time is that it's backed by lots of diffs.
- I'm fairly confident that the people concerned have sufficient technical nous to make checkuser draw a blank. And, let's be entirely honest, within minutes of me creating an SPI, an admin of the right persuasion will be getting an email suggesting that an SPI needs their attention. And SPI does not see offsite coordination by a facebook group &c. Finally, any null result at SPI will be used at the article in much the same way as previous administrative decisions have been. So, I do not believe that an SPI will improve either the article, or the encyclopædia as a whole. bobrayner (talk) 17:08, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- If you don't think the pre-existing methods set in place for situations like this are sufficient, you can always raise that concern at the village pump or suggest a policy revision - however, SPI is the venue for these requests, and the only venue. The talk page can not substitute. m.o.p 17:10, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
76.228.226.122Thank you for blocking the anonymous user, who is being counterproductive and rude. (although I think the block should have been one week, but I guess ok at least)
Can you also please try to hide the edit summaries of these edits if possible?
This and
this
Thanks and regards, talk 05:04, 26 September 2011 (UTC)]
- I'll extend the block if this behaviour continues after the block period is over.
- As for the edit summaries, those don't warrant hiding - I apologize for their content, but they don't meet the criteria of what I should remove. It's best just to ignore them for now. Cheers, m.o.p 05:13, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
- Okay, good to know, if I did nothing wrong, no permanent block will be enforced. The IP does not volunteer on WP as an admin and so the disproportionately out of line comments and threats of his should be ignored. --talk 05:19, 26 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Sounds good. We only hide extremely offensive revisions; milder ones stay in the edit history. Thanks again for bringing this to our attention! Cheers, m.o.p 05:31, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
Email
Jasper Deng (talk) 05:29, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
- Reading. talk) 06:00, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Bad Girls Club
- I've blocked Junebea for 2 days for disregarding warnings. m.o.p 20:30, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks for helping :) Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 21:06, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkback
- And again.Griswaldo (talk) 04:24, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
- And again ... but maybe the last. You can settle this question once and for all. See the talk page.Griswaldo (talk) 06:09, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'm sure I'm not alone in wanting to hear your replies to the last responses posed to you at that page. IMO, I don't know why you went down the road you did, but as far as I can tell you're blatantly misrepesenting facts about your own actions when people are brining concerns to you. You might think that since you closed the RfC the matter is settled, but it is not. You're actions have not made my life any more pleasant in the last few days vis-a-vis trying to deal with Anupam's disruption and I think you owe us all answers. So please revisit this thread and deal with the open questions. Thanks.Griswaldo (talk) 02:19, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
- I invite you to stop asking the same question again and again. This would be appreciated. Thanks, m.o.p 02:33, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Block question
- No, I just block obviously bad-faith accounts on sight. Advertising/spam accounts fall under that category. m.o.p 00:37, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Thanks
- Thank you. I've unlocked the article for whatever may come. If I'm needed again, feel free to let me know. Thanks for the kind words again, m.o.p 05:12, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
reminder
- We're still waiting to see if the user understands COI policy (per Ed's question). I'll prod the user and see if they'll answer. talk) 19:20, 30 September 2011 (UTC)]
Nextel logo deleted
- Mmm, good point. What's the link to the logo in question? m.o.p 01:33, 2 October 2011 (UTC)
Support of Sage City SymphonyYou deleted this page before I had a chance to go back in and add the stuff that you wanted to see, including the links within Wikipedia to important composers such as Lou Callabro (who started this orchestra and cites it in his Wikipedia page) and Susan Hurley whose work we premiered (SC is also mentioned in her Wikipedia entry). (Let alone links about the works we have performed.) And we have a web site at www.sagecitysymphony.org, have existed for over 35 yrs and are a significant cultural resource in the Bennington area such that we receive grants from local, statewide and national foundations.
I broke my wrist last weekend and am doing one-handed pecking so it'll take me a few days to get that loaded in. We are going out for a bit now, but I would appreciate your undeleting the page so that I don't have to re-invent the starting part when I go back in tomorrow to add links. Or delete it entirely so that I can start fresh - at this point either would work as long as I can start some serious work on it tomorrow. I am the webmaster by the way, so I do have access to content and more links.
Thank you, Celia Murray — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.228.127.119 (talk) 14:22, 1 October 2011 (UTC)
- It looks like fixed everything up. Best of luck, m.o.p 01:35, 2 October 2011 (UTC)]
Reply on Deterence's talk page
MA
After the beating you took you deserve a cold one--on me! Thanks for being fair and balanced – Lionel (talk) 03:55, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
- Hey, thanks! Glad to help out. :) m.o.p 03:56, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
Deletion of Mau5trap Recordings
--neocharles (talk) 07:33, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Existence does not equal notability - the subject has to be notable to get a Wikipedia page. m.o.p 12:05, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
Questoin re: AIV
- Addendum, actually, I read it very clearly in WP:VANDNOT: "Uploading or using material on Wikipedia in violation of Wikipedia's copyright policies is prohibited, but is not vandalism unless the user does so maliciously or fails to heed warnings." So if a person fails to heed warnings it is vandalism. My mistake here was that I only warned once. --Muhandes (talk) 12:29, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Eh, technically it is vandalism, but the user seems to be trying to improve the Wikipedia - that desire to help is misplaced in this case, as they seem to think that using copyrighted content is actually better. Weird. For most cases, yes, you should report copyvio to AIV - as long as they've been warned sufficiently. m.o.p 12:42, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- OK, he now did it again and the time stamp is after your last warning. Is it vandalism now? --Muhandes (talk) 12:32, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Yeah, if they're outright ignoring warnings. I've blocked for three days. m.o.p 12:40, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
Classmusic
- Oh, I know. But if somebody's lied to my face about using another account - and to other editors working on the article - I'm not about to let them go without a repercussion or two. I'd like Almost-instinct and Voceditnore to look over the article and fix up anything shifty. Also, I'd like Classmusic to respond to my warning, instead of blanking it and ignoring like they have to the above-named editors.
- So, in short, I know that COI doesn't bar editing, but it's enough of a concern that, given the user's recent behaviour, I'll stop them from doing anything until we've figured things out. This isn't too rouge-y, is it? I didn't hear that. Perhaps he is unaware of the sockpuppet investigation findings. Anyhow it seems that DeltaQuad has also blocked the Classmusic account. I left a note on his page about using the unblock template, but re-iterated that he needs to read the COI and Autobiography guidelines and stick to them scrupulously, if he gets unblocked. In the Opera and Classical Music WikiProjects, we get a lot of articles for performers, ensembles, etc. created by their agents and PR people, and often themselves. In my experience, the best I can hope for after one of these tussles is that they'll edit their article according to the guidelines in future. I have yet to find a single one who has ever contributed anything else to Wikipedia. Their only interest in the project is as a PR tool. Having said that, at least it results (after much red-pencilling from other editors) in one new article on a notable subject that we didn't have before and in a small way redresses the pop culture systemic bias here. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 13:40, 5 October 2011 (UTC)]
Danish election
- Never mind, it's been pulled by another admin. All the best, Jenks24 (talk) 11:03, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry about that! I was busy all day and didn't get your message until now. Thanks for letting me know, though! Cheers, m.o.p 19:51, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
3RRHey there! :)
Well WP:CRYSTAL has wined down, however, there's currently a
The Bad Girls Club (season 7). I have notified the two users [32], [33]. The evidence can be found here. They are having an edit-conflict on how the "Duration of cast" should be presented. Since there's no rules regarding anything like that, and it was made up about a year ago, I couldn't warned them to stop their e/c with anything except the 3RR rule. Maybe they need an admin to tell them to stop, so that's why I came to you :) Thanks, Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 01:17, 6 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Temporary page protection requested. Calabe1992 (talk) 01:29, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
Talkback
I did what you asked but the IP reverted it again. PTJoshua (talk) 21:09, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
- You're removing everything I say. Please don't do this. It isn't helpful. --86.45.75.42 (talk) 21:19, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
- I'll talk to them. Sit tight for a second. m.o.p 21:10, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
RE: Deletion of 48gogreen page :ApalejaHello,
Thank you for quick response. I appreciate your reason. but if you do some research you'll find more then 4 or 5 substantial mentions in local or international media - in a newspaper, on a notable website, etc. - to put forward this article. There is a link on official website of company. http://www.48gogreen.com/static/web
Looking forward for your response. thank you in advance to undelete article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Apaleja (talk • contribs) 08:03, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
Here are some articles from International Press (you can use Google translator-if you use chrome it'll provide option immediately):
http://www.regione.emilia-romagna.it/wcm/cinema/sezioni_primopiano/PrimoPiano/Gadoev.htm
http://domani.arcoiris.tv/girano-un-corto-in-48-ore-e-arrivano-dritti-a-cannes/
http://www.close-up.it/spip.php?article6724
http://www.flashvideo.it/news/9/2578/
http://www.radioemiliaromagna.it/cultura/cinema/videomaker_bolognesi_cannes_corto_ecologico.aspx
Also if YOU HAD READ careful our site you should have see the Press link (those are press links not blogs) with all these web press: http://www.48gogreen.com/static/web
Thank you — Preceding unsigned comment added by Apaleja (talk • contribs) 08:22, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
Final warning On Edit Warring of Efik language disputeIf My Reporting a false article is the reason you want to block me. Then Go ahead and BLOCK me.- I can be Block because I don't care to be part of a web/Encyclopedia of Lies! Although I have contributed anonymously to wikipedia since 2008, I only just signed on a few weeks ago to report an error that I thought was made. But you and your other BIASED administrators have refused to fix this error, instead you're all threatening to block me.
- : According to Wikipedia A false statement/article is removed immediatley it is realized. Yet as am reporting it you all are threatening me for causing disruption.
- You all are saying that I called I called Kwami Slow, Dumb etc. Yet Kwami used the words Ignorance first.
"As for Ukwa, your ignorance is not evidence of anything".
- What is the meaning of IGNORANCE? S/He also said;
"But we cannot have the same article under two names, nor an article on Ibibio-Efik that does not include Ibibio, nor an article on Efik that does not include Efik. A little common sense would be helpful."
- What is meaning of Common sense? Or because Kwami put it very nicely, and mine wasn't? Also I wasn't blanking the Efik page, since I just signed on it takes me a long while to write up an article. According to the statements above, Kwami said I could develop articles on Efik and Ibibio, that is what I was doing when you or your other BIASED administrators returned the articles back to the re-direct.
- : Since wikipedia says a false statement is fixed immediately it is reported, I explained out the mistakes, but Kwami kept insisting that me a native who speaks these languages was wrong and asked for sources. I provided the sources and Kwami Called A brilliant Historian who is a Million times more knowledgable than Kwami on the language;
"utterly ignorant AND not some random idiot who posted a web page".
- Yet you and your other Biased colleges are claiming that am the one attacking Kwami and causing a disruption.
- : Am done with Wikipedia, am going to be taking this issues to the Founder/head by email, once the Ibibio union are involved it might become a legal matter if Wikipedia still continues to portray this misleading information.
I will take this matter to the heads by Email first because they might not be aware of what you all supposed administrators are doing to their image. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ibibiogrl (talk • contribs) 21:41, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
Hi Mops,
Pls read my comments on the ANI page. I think Ibibiogrl means well, she just needs some guidance, and she's not willing to take it from me. — kwami (talk) 22:17, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
- Obviously we would like to have contributors from that part of the world, but Ibibiogrl's record here is so unpromising that I think we need good assurances that something will change in the future. (I would welcome any evidence that Ibibiogrl means well. It is hard to improve the encyclopedia when you have no interest in or respect for its policies. Read her statement above if you are uncertain about that). Mentorship has value only for someone who understands that something has gone wrong and would be willing to work with a mentor. EdJohnston (talk) 22:46, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
- I agree with Ed in this case - I have no grudge against Ibibiogrl, but the editor's attitude, despite multiple pleas for otherwise, remained combative and even insulting at points. If there's a serious expression of guilt and the editor decides they'd like to walk a different path, I'd be happy to help. However, as it is now, I believe the block should stand. m.o.p 22:52, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
- I agree that it would require some indication that she wants help. Just my 2¢ as the person she's most upset with. — kwami (talk) 23:05, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
- For the record, your input is highly appreciated, and very admirable; as the editor in conflict with her, I respect your neutrality and helpfulness. As for Ibibiogrl, we'll see where that goes. Cheers! m.o.p 00:59, 17 June 2011 (UTC)
Can you adopt me i want a new adopter.
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Mr. Pit (2nd nomination)
This isn't personalI belive the AFD on Campaign for "santorum" neologism was closed way to early and am contesting your close.
An editor has asked for a deletion review of Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2011 June 21. Because you closed the deletion discussion for this page, speedily deleted it, or otherwise were interested in the page, you might want to participate in the deletion review. KoshVorlon' Naluboutes Aeria Gloris 12:17, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
James Ball
Thank you for your concern. But I will not be blocked - _I am adding_ wikipedia to adblock. I also feel regret for having donated to the site before, but this will not happen again. Demonuminon (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 23:25, 23 June 2011 (UTC).
Thomas James BallWhy the hell did you delete his page?
Does his suffering mean nothing to you?
Heartless bitch. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.57.206.141 (talk • contribs)
Hey, Master of Puppets, OBVIOUSLY there is a public interested in keeping this article. Restore your deletion. Look at the massive flood of comments regarding your deletion here: http://www.<linkremoved>.com/2011/06/24/the-organized-silencing-of-a-man-publicly-burned-to-death/ and here http://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/i81rw/the_organized_silencing_of_a_man_publicly_burned/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Romerom (talk • contribs) 20:05, 24 June 2011 (UTC)
- Ball HIT A FOUR-YEAR-OLD CHILD, refused to pay child support, called for insurrection, demanded terrorism and violence as a solution, ultimately killed himself (leaving his children without a father) and damaged public property in the process. Even after all that, his incoherent message has mostly been ignored except by the less discriminating people claiming to speak for "men's rights" who haven't bothered to look into the details of his case. (If you really want to damage your cause, adopt a grown man who hits his own four-year-old child and flakes out on his child support as your poster boy.) --Orange Mike | Talk 20:26, 24 June 2011 (UTC) (proud father who has never hit his child in his lifetime)
Hey, "proud father who never hit his child in his lifetime", not everybody is against disciplining their children by spanking. He said his daughter was licking his hand, and he had told her repeatedly to stop. She didn't, and he smacked her. He didn't punch her, or send her to the hospital, or cause any serious injury. Just enough to have his wife baited into calling the police on him by child protective services. As for child support, he paid his child support until the point where he wasn't able to afford it due to an employment issue. Is that such a crazy thing to have happen? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.211.155.1 (talk) 04:28, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
- Again, while I do sympathize with the family and supporters, I am not taking sides, nor do I have any bias in this situation. I am not a feminist, nor am I a misogynist - I am fair and neutral towards all people, whether they be abusive fathers or abused fathers.
- This deletion was enforced solely in keeping with Wikipedia's long-established policies. Mr. Ball's death, while indeed tragic, was not reported throughout the reliable media enough to show his notability.
- I hope this makes sense to all those saddened by Mr. Ball's passing. Cheers, m.o.p 21:04, 24 June 2011 (UTC)
- I understand that you do not think that Mr. Ball's death is something that qualifies as an event and thus deleted said article. I disagree but I do see the merits of your argument. However, you claim to be unbiased in this debate and yet for someone who judges on the letter of the law you break the law and close debate 2.5 days before final judgment is to be rendered. If you have no corner then I ask why make this article a special case that it must be quelled , by your own admission, 2.5 days before any other articles found in similar circumstances are voted upon. I petition you to reinstate and allow the normal course of the discussion continue for the 2.5 days, allow the full opportunity for the pro side to make their case then recluse yourself from the final judgment. This is the only way to ensure transparency so that your claim of neutrality can be believed. CaffOMHW (talk) 03:28, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
- Ahead of things, let me tell you that I appreciate the civility.
- Wikipedia's policies aren't law - they're guidelines. As an administrator, it's my job to apply policy in a way that is completely devoid of bias and benefits the encyclopedia as a whole.
- On a side note, the deletion nomination was closed 1.5 days before the normal time. The page had a whole work week to be saved, rewritten or reworked; however, due to the lack of outside sourcing that carried reliability, there was nothing to keep that wasn't editorialized or unencyclopedic. I would also like to point out that almost every account that voiced their opinion in the 'keep' spectrum had either only edited that page or had edited very little aside from the page. Meanwhile, the deletion argument was put forward by experienced users.
- Though I understand that some people take offense to my early closure, I assure them that one extra day would not have yielded success, and that I took many factors into consideration before closing the discussion.
- Again, thank you for the civility, but I won't be overturning judgment or recreating a deletion discussion at this date. m.o.p 08:17, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
ITNthx for the 2 quick updates of my nom ;)
but also can you see the bolivia one. its got support and very nearly out of the news. we could tack it nearer the border.Lihaas (talk) 22:26, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
Ball closure.
Thank God you are an ambassador for WP, and against censorship, MoP. When Wikipedia fails, and it eventually will, it will largely be because most people don't like to be gamed and would rather not read well cultivated information that is maintained by dishonest brokers who hide behind rules that are never applied in an even-handed manner. The idea that a story is not relevant merely because it is not yet encyclopedic is ridiculous when one sees all the articles which linger on for months or years in the same state. The idea that a story is not relevant because the motivations/justifications of the user are suspect would be grounds for eliminating half the biographical articles in WP. It smacks of an agenda. The appearance of impropriety is as bad as actual impropriety.173.78.20.96 (talk) 04:51, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
- I appreciate the feedback.
- I do my best to maintain an equal, proportionate response in all dealings on Wikipedia; I don't defend things I like, or attack things I dislike, just for the reason of screwing with people. That strikes me as childish. Instead, the most I can do is try to help others understand Wikipedia policies, which are generally mind-bending and hard to grasp (for example, most people ask, "What's the reasoning a war hero isn't considered notable when Donkey Kong is?").
- Maybe one day the policies will change. I mean, most of these were written five, six year ago - the world's changing, and I expect they will with time. But, for now, the guidelines handle what comes in.
- Again, thanks for the input. I appreciate not being personally attacked - it makes it easier to reply. Cheers, m.o.p 05:08, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Natami (2nd nomination)
- The close was thoroughly thought-out, so there's not much ground for me to explore that I haven't already. If you're set on going to DRV, there's nothing I can say which will change your mind, and it's your right to ask for a review. However, current consensus sits at delete (unless the 'keep' side is hiding an ace-in-the-hole reliable source or something). Cheers, m.o.p 04:55, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- So, what about the reliable sources we already brought up in the AfD such as this interview in Amiga Future or this news article from nr2.ru? We've already established that Amiga Future isn't sponsored by a hardware company as one !voter there falsely claimed. On a related note, did you discount the !votes from individuals making misleading statements or those claiming there were "no independent reliable sources"? (I could tell you how that !voter happened to show up there, but he isn't going to like it.) I could also link to forum posts by another delete !voter who showed up there who was very much into a "delete at any cost" mode because he doesn't like "amiga clones". --Tothwolf (talk) 05:11, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- Those sources were there before the previous close, and I, like the previous administrator, do not think they're strong enough.
- I've already covered what kind of rationale was discounted and what wasn't.
- As for your last statement about other editors - I'm not quite sure what your point is, but I don't think it's relevant. As I said, I've discounted any rationale that does not apply policy.
- Cheers, m.o.p 05:33, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- Uh, no...nr2.ru was only brought up in the second AfD. Strong enough is also an argument to be made in a !vote, not a closing statement. --Tothwolf (talk) 05:56, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- My apologies, the Russian source was indeed added after the first AfD. Still too shaky for a stand-alone article, though. Cheers, m.o.p 13:42, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- To follow up on my earlier comment, while I don't really want to get into an "X did this because of Y" sort of thing with regards to this AfD, there were a number of delete !voters who showed up there for personal reasons/vendettas/bias and/or who made false statements about sources. Despite the template at the top of the AfD, the second AfD also didn't suffer from the forum canvassing that the first did. One of the delete !voters actually came by way of the forum and first AfD and was trolling because of his personal dislike of Amiga clones. --Tothwolf (talk) 15:33, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
If they have valid, policy-based rationale, their personal motivation doesn't matter, solely for the reason that an encyclopedia based on liking or disliking things would crumble instantly. I'm sure some of the deletion crew could just-as-easily blame keep voters for being enthusiasts and fans of Natami - but that's not important. As a result, making allegations of personal bias is unnecessary. The help is appreciated, but there's nothing I can do with the information. m.o.p 15:39, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- It matters when someone makes false statements and tries to hide what they are doing behind policy. As for keeps, quite a number appear to be from well established editors who don't appear to be all that interested in Amiga topics. As for myself, I wasn't even aware of NatAmi until the first AfD and didn't even !vote in the first AfD since I thought it was pretty obvious it was headed for a no-consensus close. --Tothwolf (talk) 15:58, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- Again, if their rationale is grounded in policy, their motivation does not matter, simply because it's impossible to discern someone's intent through text, and because the second someone accuses another of favoritism/malicious intent the entire argument turns into a bunch of people shouting, "You're lying." That's why there's nothing I can do with your information in this case. Cheers, m.o.p 16:02, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- Apologies to you, M.O.P., for addressing another editor on your talk page, but I just wanted to jump in this conversation. Tothwolf, with no prejudice against you at all I strongly suggest you take this in perspective. There have been two AFDs and an ANI report over this article. The way you treated me on my talk page threatening DRV because I was a new administrator was, as I feel it, borderline harassing. That you canvassed two other administrators to talk to me was also a below the belt move. In good faith, I relisted the debate and it has closed again as delete. I strongly suggest taking the advice at WP:DGAF into account here and let the issue go. I don't think there will be a problem recreating this article, even pulling the old content back from the deletion log, when the subject has better sources in a broader community. I hold no ill feeling toward you, this is purely honest advice.--v/r - TP 16:46, 27 June 2011 (UTC)]
- TParis, while you are correct in that this talk page is not the place for this, because you brought this up here and you seem to value honest feedback, I'll address this here.
In no way did I ever threaten you with DRV, let alone because you were a new administrator (discussion in question). I did however upon noticing that you had passed RFA only days earlier decide it best not to press you further in public and instead sent you this short email: "Sigh. I just noticed you just finished your RFA. The Natami AfD was a bad AfD to pick to close right out of the gate. It is likely to end up at DRV and given the magazine I mentioned, overturned. I really wish you would reconsider your close. You might have noticed I didn't even !vote in the AfD itself, however I did point out a number of things and took a couple of people to task for making false or misleading statements." That is the only email I sent you about the matter and not once did I ever threaten you with DRV. Please get your facts correct before making statements such as this because such mistakes can have a negative effect on others.
After you replied expressing your disagreement over the sources (and implied that I might be biased because I sometimes contribute to computing-related articles) I asked a number of other administrators (way more than two, actually) what they thought of the AfD's close because I wanted unbiased feedback to see if I was somehow totally off-track before I initiated a DRV. The feedback I got was fairly unanimous in that the close was problematic. Before I had a chance to draft a DRV however, you reverted your own close and relisted the AfD from scratch with a new listing. In no way did I ever "canvass" anyone to "talk to you" and if others did contact you directly, they did so at their own discretion and for their own reasons.
There indeed have been two AfDs, the first of which you closed (although one could also argue that the second was merely a relist of the first). The AN/I "discussion" you also mentioned wasn't really over this article or the first AfD, it was an attempt by someone to game AN/I when they were unable to bully me on their talk page. Please be more careful making these sort of blanket statements in the future because as I mentioned above such statements can cause problems for others. --Tothwolf (talk) 17:38, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- You're email was exactly like your reply here. You like to make threats without actually making them: "such statements can cause problems". There is very little way your email cannot be interpreted as anything other than a threat of DRV because I am a new administrator. This is all I'll say on M.O.P.'s talk page as I came here to offer honest advice and you don't seem interested in it. If you'd like to discuss further with me, you know where to find my talk page.--v/r - TP 17:51, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- TParis, in no way did I ever make an implied threat. While I may be a little blunt and abrasive at times (or maybe I'm just an assume good faith in that you simply misremembered the facts I outlined above when you made this statement here. It is easy to forget a few details here or there and not everyone maintains detailed notes for this sort of stuff (I do, for a number of reasons, although I didn't always).
As far as honest advice goes, this is a two-way street and I gave you my opinion as well. If you choose to ignore and discount it, so be it, but I'd suggest you be much more careful in the future and get your facts correct before you make the sort of statement you made above. Such statements can and do cause problems for other editors. Who knows, it may just be that you've not been around long enough yet to have witnessed people blocked or punished in some way because someone else didn't have their facts together. (If you do decide you want to continue this discussion, perhaps we should take this elsewhere.) --Tothwolf (talk) 18:14, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
]
Heaton Park Hebrew Congregation (2nd nomination)
Natami
Thought you might want to know
- (talk page stalker) That's just the same little ideological website which has been pushing for the "Martyrdom of St. Thomas Ball" attention since day one; no actual new coverage. --Orange Mike | Talk 14:34, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
- I guess I should also mention that the way I found it, was that someone tried submitting it to Fark.com last night. The admins did not greenlight it, so that particular submission/thread did not go to the main Fark page, appearing only to those with Totalfark accounts. The submission said something like "Wikipedia deletes burning man" (I'm not at a computer with TF access so I might not have that exactly right). It might, theoretically, based on the submission, be considered some sort of off-site canvassing (it was submitted with the asinine tag). For what its worth, the thread went uncommented, so I don't think that particular attempt garnered any support. I just wanted to drop a line in case that this was just the first drop of a large storm. If I see anything else, I'll drop a line here. Umbralcorax (talk) 15:58, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
Wiki ad
4chan raid
Thomas James Bell, new information
- (reliable sources. --Orange Mike | Talk 13:33, 30 June 2011 (UTC)]
Happy Birthday
![](//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3d/Nuvola_apps_cookie.svg/50px-Nuvola_apps_cookie.svg.png)
Just a happy Birthday message to you, Master of Puppets, from the Wikipedia Birthday Committee! Have a great day!
Monterey Bay (talk) 02:00, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
User:BillyMoses
Natami
AFD
- Your input is appreciated, though there's nothing I can do with it but take a note. If you'd like, you can weigh in at the next AfD(s), when/if they arise. Cheers, m.o.p 19:42, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
Dr Myko San – Health from Mushrooms
- I'd be happy to help! However, I'm currently away from a computer (typing this on my phone), so I'll have to check in on the 11th of July. Does that sound okay? m.o.p 15:40, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
- wp:NODEADLINE :-) LeadSongDog come howl! 15:48, 7 July 2011 (UTC)]
From a former Wikipedian
-71.234.90.0 (talk) 04:50, 8 July 2011 (UTC)
- Hey, thanks so much! I'm not sure who you are, but I really appreciate the sentiment. Hope all is well! m.o.p 20:49, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
Deletion review for Thomas James Ball
DRV comment
DRV
Could you please overturn the deletion of these files per File:Signature of Amitabh Bachchan.svg and File:Signature of Zakir Hussain.svg:
- File:Signature of Vishwanathan Anand.svg
- File:Signature of Vijay Mallya.svg
- File:Signature of Venkaiah Naidu.svg
- File:Signature of Sudeep Bandhopadhyay.svg
- File:Signature of Sonia Gandhi.svg
- File:Signature of Somnath Chatterjee.svg
- File:Signature of Ratan Tata.svg
- File:Signature of Kumar Mangalam Birla.svg
- File:Signature of Rajeev Shukla.svg
- File:Signature of Raj Babbar.svg
- File:Signature of Rahul Gandhi.svg
- File:Signature of Priyanka Vadra.svg
- File:Signature of P. T. Usha.svg
- File:Signature of Narendra Modi.svg
- File:Signature of Nandan Nilekani.svg
- File:Signature of Manish Tewari.svg
- File:Signature of Leander Paes.svg
- File:Signature of Lata Mangeshkar.svg
- File:Signature of Kumar Mangalam Birla.svg
- File:Signature of Karia Munda.svg
- File:Signature of Kapil Sibal.svg
- File:Signature of Kamal Nath.svg
- File:Signature of K. Kamraj.svg
- File:Signature of Jaya Bachchan.svg
- File:Signature of Gautam Gambhir.svg
- File:Signature of Brinda Karat.svg
- File:Signature of Bharatsinh Solanki.svg
- File:Signature of Bhairon Singh Shekhawat.svg
- File:Signature of B. K. Birla.svg
- File:Signature of Azim Premji.svg
- File:Signature of Arun Jaitely.svg
- File:Signature of Aishwarya Rai Bachchan.svg
- File:Signature of Abhishek Manu Singhvi.svg
- File:Signature of Abhishek Bachchan.svg
- File:Signature of Sting.svg
- File:Signature of Br. L. D. Lobo.svg
- File:Signature of VJ Rannvijay Singh Singha.svg
Diligent07Appears to be less than new. See User talk:Raoulduke25 where he states that this is a deliberate series of edits.
- Can you please help defend our collective effort of including the obscene middle-finger incident in the Cheney Mason article? It should be maintained in the article for public interest, etc. Please see the Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard#Cheney Mason discussion page and include your thoughts in favor of having the content remain in the interests of the public, etc
[8], [9] and even imputation that an editor has a connection with the person [10]. He has been on since April, and started off as being experienced on WP IMHO. Kindly keep an eye out please. Especially for any sign of a real "collective effort"? Such as [11]? Cheers. Collect (talk) 11:36, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
A cookie for you!
Keep up the good work defending the "Wiki" against genre warriors. Thanks for the help! talk) 17:31, 13 July 2011 (UTC)]
Hello. You have a new message at Lionelt's talk page.
Semi protection
OK, this thing with the militant atheism page is impossibleThese guys are incredible... I could dig up diffs to show you how they revert and wikilawyer even the SMALLEST attempt to move the article closer to NPOV. But that would take a long time for you to read. How about I show you this instead:
These guys are utterly without scruples. Who in their right mind would remove the NPOV dispute tag when heated arguments have been raging for weeks and NO moves whatsoever have been made to fix the article? Oh right, that would be someone in their right mind who is running a propaganda platform.
Anyway... I wanted to ask your advice on what to do. These guys are impossible to work with. Most of the other editors have given up and refuse to put this page on their watchlist. So what to do then? Request formal mediation? Articles for deletion? Something else?
Me and the other editors would like to see the page replaced with a disambiguation page... since literally ALL the content has already been covered (better) in Criticism of atheism, State atheism and New Atheism.
Obhave (talk) 13:21, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
- Hello User:Master of Puppets. I noticed this conversation and thought I might add that an NPOV policy. Obhave (talk) 13:11, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
- One more thing, m.o.p... my opponents are currently twisting your words to make it look as if you were scolding user:Mann_jess all along. Obhave (talk) 14:42, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
]
User:Jasper Deng page protection
- No worries! m.o.p 19:35, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
Is there a procedure for brutal uncollaborated editing with a destructive intent?I noticed that you recently had problems with proposed brutal editing by Peter S Strempel. Although he has been more sensible on your project in the end (possibly because of your administrator status?) he has not been so with regard to the astrology project pages to which he made a similar 'razor-promise'. Could you please see this Afd request which is one of three he made for major 'history of astrology' articles within the last hour, with a promise on another important page that any comment which is not refrences within 7 days will be removed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Babylonian_astrology
Is there anything that can be done about this officially to stop him wreaking havoc with content whilst he knows that the small group of editors providing content on these pages are already stretched to the limit trying to keep up with what needs to be done? I don't understand what drives some people to want to edit WP like this, but I think it is entriely the result of his ego-stress that when he proposed an edit for a passage, no one favoured it. Hope you can help or advise Zac Δ talk 01:15, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks! assume good faith; I believe that Peter is simply trying to help improve Wikipedia. While his methods may be lacking in some areas, he has displayed a pretty decent grasp on the policies he's trying to enforce.
- However, I agree that he shouldn't be making any changes if they're not discussed with the community first. Do you mind pulling up a few diffs of where he went against consensus? I'll approach him with your concern then. Thanks, m.o.p 03:57, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
- Actually there hasn't been any significant content dispute with Peter. He proposed a change to a section edit which wasn't a very good proposition and a few editors commented but without rancur, and I added a new section post immediately afterwards to point out the proiposed change would contradict with how the definition was given correctly at a later point in the article, outlining how I understood WP policy expected the main astrology article to pull its own content together, along with its summarised content from its daughter pages. Peter never responded to this but other editors started working in that direction immediately. Then, without further discussion or comment, Peter came back four days later to announce an intention to take his 'word razor' to all unreferenced assertions on the main astrology page, its sub-pages, and the portal page itself, to ensure his perceived disagreement was not circumvented in pages he viewed as content forks (I'm still not sure what he means by that). My response to that can be seen - a perfectly reasonable request for him to do what he felt was most productive, but consider that citation-tagging was the way to go. I also placed comments on his talk-page, which you can read if you are interested. That he erupted into a frenzy of AfD requests last night says something, I think, about his unwillingness to discuss and engage in other views. Most of his posts appear as new section declarations that don't appear to have considered the responses other editors give him.
- I've summarised this in the ANI request Dougweller started. The deletion requests were a step too far IMO, and I'm concerned that Peter would spring to such drastic measures in reaction to what he perceives to be me not allowing him to do what he wants to do. I'll be away for a few days so I'm tying up my WP activity now. That underlines my concern that he intends to take such drastic action with only one week's notice of intent. Thanks for looking into this. It would be good if something could be proposed to stop huge problems before they occur. 10:35, 22 July 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zachariel (talk • contribs
)
- One last request. I have just noticed that a related complaint, which is quite serious but has been sidetracked (deliberatly IMO) by Peter's suggestions that I have prevented him from doing what he wants, has been collapsed as "going nowehere" by an unsympathetic editor.
- "Its ben here several days and no admin has even sniffed at a block or ban - clearly you're not going to get admin action. So this should got to WP:DR or WP:RFCU if you want to take it further. I've boldly collapsed this, though I won't be surprised if someone uncollapses it"
- If you can find the time could you at least take a look at that related problem, and consider uncollapsing it, because the issues are serious and have gone beyond the point where Dispute resolution are appropriate. I will be away and have nothing more to add, but the problems identified still remain. Zac Δ talk 10:58, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
What to do?
- I've started a threat at ANI. Those AfDs are purely pointy and if no one objects I'll close them. talk) 06:11, 22 July 2011 (UTC)]
- Replied there. m.o.p 08:20, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
Talk Page on Militant Atheism - Introduction Section
- The update is appreciated, thanks very much. I've been dealing with life for the past two weeks, but I'll be back to close that discussion tonight or tomorrow. Thanks again, m.o.p 22:03, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
- Just bringing this up again, given the current state of this section. I believe the discussion will be archived automatically if not closed. I'm sorry if I sound pushy with you having a lot on your plate of late. If you would prefer, I could alert User:Fastily instead. Turnsalso (talk) 16:55, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
ITN
- I knew that tab I closed had unfinished business on it... thanks. 2008 University of Central Arkansas shootings is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.
The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2008 University of Central Arkansas shootings(2nd nomination) until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on good quality evidence, and our policies and guidelines.
Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article.
talk 14:00, 1 September 2011 (UTC)]
Hey
- Done! Both your userpage and the transcluded page are protected. Cheers, « ₣M₣ » 04:09, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Restored. m.o.p 05:21, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
]
User talk:Joshua the Independent
- My mistake - my block script auto-filled the edit summary. The block was issued due to the user's newfound will to disrupt Wikipedia intentionally. Their previous contributions are welcome, but this behaviour necessitates administrative action. m.o.p 21:52, 13 September 2011 (UTC)
Say hi to your imaginary girlfriend for me
- Well, I do love getting hate mail. Thanks for the laugh! Cheers, m.o.p 05:17, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
...further to the above lovely note, I weighed in on Calabe's talk page - there appears to be more confusion here than at first glance. bou·le·var·dier (talk) 05:19, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
Sorry to drop by again, but Silentsizzlingsausage (talk · contribs) would appear to be a duck. bou·le·var·dier (talk) 05:31, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
- No, it's not an issue! Thanks for the note, blocked. Cheers, WP:SPI. Thanks again, m.o.p 06:13, 14 September 2011 (UTC)]
I have to admit ...
- See the above section. The link is apparently a very subtle spam link that Calabe is removing, and socks are springing up to revert him. Swarm u / t 10:20, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
Moderation
- Alright, I'll make my way back. Thanks for letting me know! m.o.p 05:18, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
User:12.139.96.228
- To be honest, this case is perplexing. Half of this user's edits are constructive (mostly sourced), the other half aren't sourced - and the user won't reply to anybody. I'm also too busy to go through every edit and confirm whether or not it's good. I forgot about this for a while - I'll think about it tonight and figure something out for tomorrow. Thanks for reminding me! m.o.p 05:18, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
Whoops
- Whoops! Must not have been looking when I ran my block script. Thanks for letting me know, I've reblocked them for a far shorter (technically, an infinitely shorter) time. Cheers, m.o.p 22:58, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
Ashleyleggat404
- You're fully right in that the blanking policy covers indefinite blocks. I've removed the user's talk page rights as a result. Thanks again! m.o.p 00:28, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkback
Moderation
- If you look into this please consider whether Anupam's actions on the talk page and the entry itself are violations of WP:OWN. He's been driving off those he disagrees with by bludgening them to death with argument and heavily policing the entry claiming that there is a consensus written in stone despite many dissenting voices. Others have taken to simply calling him "the article's owner." I have had enough of this behavior personally and left him a message about it on his talk page. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:52, 20 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Dear User:Master of Puppets, the above user has misrepresented the occurrences at the article. I started another Introduction discussion at the article's talk page but User:Griswaldo has chosen to edit war over a second NPOV tag, despite the fact that one already exists in the article. He has done so despite the fact that the Introduction is being discussed in a peaceful manner at the talk page, in violation of your injunction: "We've only got consensus on this proposed versions (and loose consensus at that) - please do not attempt to subvert said consensus by making undiscussed changes." I have posted a message on his talk page about this behaviour. Nevertheless, I also do not wish to argue with the user personally and would prefer if you could go back to moderating the discussion between the two parties at the talk page. Thanks for taking the time to read this message. With regards, AnupamTalk 20:58, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- His "injunction?" Adding a neutrality tag to a specific sentence which an editor disputes the neutrality of is hardly "subverting the consensus by making undiscussed changes." Please stop wikilawyering to get your way. There is a growing consensus against your position regarding this article in general as well, despite your aggressive policing of the entry and the talk page. See ]
- I just thought that I would mention that User:Griswaldo, after seeing this message, just now decided to comment in the discussion rather than edit war against consensus further. Thanks for taking the time to read this message. With regards, AnupamTalk 21:51, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- "Edit war against consensus further?" My comment there has nothing to do with your message here. I've made three total edits to this entry ever. One was a copy edit in June, another was reverting an IP vandal, and the third was the revert of your Ownership edit. Please do not insinuate that I'm a edit warrior on this page. It is disingenuous.Griswaldo (talk) 22:08, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Thank you all for approaching me with your concerns.
- Obviously, I do not support Anupam - this is because I'm remaining a neutral third party, and, therefore, can't take sides. However, Griswaldo: please keep in mind that I did ask for all discussion to take place on the talk page. Why not just add your complaints to the talk page? It would have been much easier to discuss.
- I do agree that adding a NPOV tag, while slightly redundant, isn't horrible, but your intent seems to have been to stir discussion on that particular section, discussion that would be much more appropriate on the talk page.
- As for your and Snalwibma's concerns of Anupam trying to 'own' the article, I'm curious as to what you two mean; what 'delusions'?
- Also, Griswaldo, I don't think Anupam meant to insinuate you are an edit warrior (though this is just my take) - rather, they wanted to add the note that you've weighed in on discussion. m.o.p 22:10, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- your intent seems to have been to stir discussion on that particular section - No that's incorrect. I didn't add this tag, I simply reverted Anupam's attempt to own the page when he removed it. I agreed with JimWae's addition of the tag and found Anupam's removal to be unwarranted and a display of ownership.Griswaldo (talk) 22:16, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Note that, for all intents and purposes, reverting somebody is adding whatever is included in your edit, regardless of who put it there first. You revert a removal, you're agreeing with the edition you're reverting to - simple.
- And, if you agreed with JimWae, then we go back to what I was saying earlier - say so on the talk page. Two of you agree? Great! That's closer to consensus. But it means nothing if you express your support by reverting removals.
- Again, as I've asked multiple times, please stop saying that Anupam is owning anything without giving me evidence of it first. m.o.p 22:22, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Dear User:Master of Puppets, thank you for your reply to all of us. The reason User:Snalwibma stated that I was attempting to "own" the article was because I reverted an undiscussed removal from the article, which not only myself, but two other users objected to. In fact, two anonymous IP Addresses also reverted User:Snalwibma. I was open to compromise on the issue and stated that I would accept User:Turnsalso's compromise on the issue. I kindly request you to look at that discussion yourself and get an honest reading of it. Also, the only reason I removed the second NPOV tag was because there was already one present, which I did not remove. I only reverted the addition of a second NPOV tag once and even explained myself on the talk page. When I went to the talk page, I found rude accusations and an anti-collaborative spirit, despite the fact that I have been nothing but polite. I hope this helps. With regards, AnupamTalk 22:25, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry - I know I should not rise to the bait, but I have to object to the comment "The reason User:Snalwibma stated that I was attempting to 'own' the article was because I reverted an undiscussed removal ..." How dare Anupam presume to know what is in my mind! The reason I describe Anupam's attitude to the article as one of ownership is because that is how s/he behaves - "policing" every edit, pronouncing on whether s/he "accepts" or "rejects" it, peremptorily reverting anything s/he does not like, without discussion, presuming to know others' motives, and judging them as fit/unfit to contribute to the article. This has been going on for weeks, if not months. It is impossible to discuss the content of the article, let alone improve the text, because everything is filtered through the approval/disapproval of the article's self-appointed guardian, Anupam. tendentious or disruptive when they bring up certain issues, even when they are clearly in the majority. That is not collaborative. I stopped editing the article heavily because of those issues. I don't have any delusions that my opinion is worth more than anyone else's here, but I would think that the large number of established, experienced editors who are all saying there's a problem, would indicate something. — Jess· Δ♥ 19:45, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
Please reconsider your full protection of Militant atheist
- In case you didn't notice, I asked that people think twice about pointing fingers at each other. If you'd like to start a sockpuppetry investigation, let me know, and we can take that avenue - however, don't accuse other editors of ownership without substance. If you think Anupam is trying to own things, give me something. Diffs, edits, anything. I'll check it out for you, but right now, baseless accusations are not what I'm looking for.
- Also, notice that I protected the article with your edit being the last one. How is that validating the very person you've been reverting?
- The protection will stay until consensus is reached. m.o.p 22:19, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Because protection is what he wants quite clearly. He's stalling conversation and shouting down people on the talk page, where, if you have a look, you'll see he's clearly in the minority. Because of your "injunction" as he calls it, he also claims that no matter how many people agree with a certain change it is illegitimate. I'll be happy to gather some diffs, but my first message to you above was to please look into the situation carefully before acting on it. Did you do that and come to the conclusion that I'm wrong or did you not head that request? Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:29, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Yes, I did heed your request. I don't see any ownership behaviour from Anupam, though, being involved in multiple disputes, I didn't have the time to read every last word on the page, so you're free to provide evidence. However, from what I can see, Anupam's last proposal was supported by the majority - not to count (and I don't mean to imply that I decide where consensus lies by looking at pure numbers), but from looking at pure supports versus opposes, eight people (nine including Anupam) support while four oppose. How does that make Anupam's views a minority? m.o.p 22:37, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- It depends on what view you are talking about. The current RFC on the introduction is something that most people don't even want to engage because most people think this very entry should be split up and integrated into other entries. I reluctantly engaged the RfC just now myself. The last time the more serious question about the entry was asked, several of the new commentators were not around, and there was "no consensus" found because the opposing side was chalk full of SPAs and editors with a view that is outright hostile to atheism (which is a legitimate view to hold, but it is a minority view). Let me find you some diffs.Griswaldo (talk) 22:43, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- User:Griswaldo, that is exactly the issue: you do not want to collaborate with other users on the talk page, which is why you were reluctant to participate in the current RfC. Moreover, there were several SPA's on the side of the opposition as well, including WP:NPOV. In addition, the split was again recently discussed and the specific case to do so was refuted by several editors. As such, there was no consensus for it. I hope this helps. With regards, AnupamTalk 22:52, 20 September 2011 (UTC)]
- No. You are trying to write an article that violates WP:SYNTH because it conflates New Atheism with oppressive communist regimes and their histories of violence. That's hardly NPOV. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:59, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
Hi m.o.p., as someone who occasionally looks at that page (and then washes my hands), I just want to compliment you as having done the right thing in full protecting. By way of unsolicited advice to the involved editors, the best thing they could do is to allow The Wrong Version to sit there a good long time, and devote their energy to other things. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:54, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
]
Yes, please reconsider your full protection of
WP:RS—deserve protection against misinformed reverts. Thanks Geremia (talk) 16:12, 22 September 2011 (UTC)]
Diffs of
- I'm not really sure where the ownership is here; nowhere in our policies is it stated that a user can't promote their RFC on the subject talk page. If it's ongoing and they'd like to move it to the forefront, what's wrong with that? More so, some of your summaries seem inaccurate - in that last diff, you state that Anupam is removing images, yet I only see Anupam adding an image (the peace dove that's at the top of the page). Also, you use repeating examples. m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Well clearly the last diff was wrong. Thanks for the vote of confidence. There are no repeat examples nor inaccurate summaries, just a mistaken copy paste of the second to last diff to the last position as well. I have fixed it. Cheers.
- Using "consensus claims from one RfC to reject changes made to article content
- Same as above. Using the "consensus" bludgeon to get his way. Please note that clearly we ought to edit by consensus, but this consensus is highly disputed, and IMO not there in the first place. The real problem is the way in which Anupam decides to use it like a trump card to remove changes he doesn't like. Ask yourself if all changes post "consensus" have been removed or just the ones Anupam decided he wanted removed.
Master of Puppets do you need more diffs or is this enough?Griswaldo (talk) 23:31, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Well I need more diffs because your "evidence" so far looks like a desperate attempt to incriminate an editor who has been very successful in persuading his colleagues to adopt his proposals. Anupam has presented his proposals, argued the merits and persuaded many editors. Anything you want to tell us about why you're having difficulty doing likewise? – Lionel (talk) 06:02, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- I don't see this is as conclusive evidence, either. And, it should be said - if people are editing against established consensus, then people are free to re-evaluate consensus, but edit-warring against it doesn't make much sense. m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- If not ownership then what is this - [28], [29], [30]? He removes two RfCs started by another editor, and revolving around the question that many of us actually find to be the fundamental question to answer regarding the entry. Then he edit wars to keep these RfCs off the page, claiming again to have some sort of authority stemming from your prior actions. If you aren't willing to do something here I'm going to another administrator and I'm going to ask for your initial "consensus," your strong arm administrating, and your lack of action here to be reviewed as well. Thanks.Griswaldo (talk) 17:08, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Anupam has already apologized for reverting those RfC additions, and we've moved past it. He also didn't claim to have administrative authority, but was waiting for my approval. We've cleared this up, it's not an issue. So no, I'm not going to take any action (as I've said here and on ANI). Now, if you'd like to threaten me and tell me that, since I'm not cooperating with your wills, you'll go to another administrator, that's fine - as I've said, you can seek outside opinions - but remember to keep a cool head, because borderline threats are not appreciated. m.o.p 21:49, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- It was not a threat, "borderline" or otherwise. You are conveniently ignoring a growing number of voices who are all saying the same thing - there is an ownership problem here. The deletion issue has not been "cleared up" as far as I'm concerned. Whenever it is mentioned Anupam insists that he did not "unilaterally" delete the RfCs from the page, which is a blatant distortion, since that is exactly what he did. He continues to act as a policeman at the page, and yes he does continue to cite your authority. Did you bother to read the many diffs I posted above in the second two sections? I will quote three random examples from those I provided for you if you want.
- When he first deleted the two RfCs he wrote: "rv - see discussion with reviewing administrator; approval needed to start another RfC while one is already occurring."
- When he deleted a fact tag that JimWae put into the lede: "rv excessive tagging per talk; tag is already extant in header; do not subvert previous consensus but gain consensus for potential additions per administrative notice"
- When he rejected another recent change to the entry: "accepted edits by User:Jkhwiki; rv removal of longstanding referenced content - see discussion on talk page and gain consensus for action per administrative injunction"
- In talk page comments and in edit summaries he consistently does the same thing. He refers to your authority, either directly or indirectly through your "notice" or your "injunction" as he likes to call it. I never said the claimed to have administrative authority, I said that he's using your authority, by way of your comments, such as the closure of the AfD to bully people. Do you deny that he citing your comments, because if you do then I must have fabricated those quotes. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:32, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
If you say "If you don't do A, then I'm going to go and do B", that's a threat. Anyway, that's not the issue - we've already covered all the issues with the RfC reverting, and Anupam won't do it again. Why keep raising hell over it?
We've already covered everything you bring up. And no, I'm not denying anything. I'm just saying this, and it's very simple: I don't think there has been any blatant ownership here. That's my judgment. If you disagree, again, feel free to raise this with another administrator or on ANI. m.o.p 23:12, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Regarding the new RFC, I still think there has not passed yet too much time since the last discussion about splitting the article. As far as I knew, repeating these sorts of debates (like splitting, deleting, renaming) before a larger amount of time has passed (like 6 months) is usually discouraged. And as others have also argued earlier, even if having multiple RFCs is possible, it's not very useful, and the new RFC seems to discourage further discussion about improving the lead introduction. So preventing multiple RFCs (and also a RFC about an issue debated not too long ago) does not look to me like evidence of bad faith intentions. Cody7777777 (talk) 21:37, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Cody, would you mind linking me to the previous RfC on splitting? m.o.p 21:49, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- The previous attempt to split the article can be found here. Cody7777777 (talk) 21:55, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Response
Yes, it does. Thanks, m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Dear User:Master of Puppets, I just noticed that User:Binksternet started another RfC while a current one is occurring. Is this appropriate? I reverted the addition motioning for one until your response is confirmed. If it is acceptable, then I apologize and will revert my edit. I look forward to your response. With regards, AnupamTalk 15:14, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'll form my reply on ANI. m.o.p 17:12, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- When you do please take into account my comment just above, regarding Anupam's edit warring to remove talk page comments (namely these RfCs) posted by others on the talk page. If you still don't think this is WP:OWN then clearly other administrators are needed here.Griswaldo (talk) 17:15, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Dear User:Griswaldo, how is going to a neutral mediator to address the issue owning the article? I acknowledge that the article is in dispute and as a result, I am asking an administrator for advice in this matter, NOT handling things on my own, as you have done by edit warring. Your WP:OWN allegations have not only been dismissed by this administrator, but by several other users, including, User:Lionelt, User:Cody7777777 and User:NYyankees51. Thanks, AnupamTalk 17:27, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- In reply to Griswaldo: reverting the RfCs was a mistake, but we've cleared that up now. As Anupam has stated at ANI, the intent was not to discourage discussion. If you think my judgment is compromised, you're welcome to seek another administrator's input. m.o.p 21:04, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- And as further evidence of WP:OWN, see this. Anupam adds a comment to everything that anyone else says, as if he/she is the owner of the article and everyone else is a subordinate contributor. This particular instance is pretty benign (although it clutters up the talk page with an unnecessary comment that merely says "I agree"), but I do think that Anupam at least needs to learn how to avoid giving the appearance of thinking he/she owns the article, and to desist from chipping in and saying the same thing over and over again, which almost makes meaningful discussion impossible! SNALWIBMA ( talk - contribs ) 17:31, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- While the input is appreciated, as I've said before, making allegations of ownership without hard evidence isn't going to get us anywhere. Anupam is not stopping others from discussing changes or forming consensus, and that's all that matters - refactoring the talk page or commenting on an issue is not against policy, and I'm not going to tell someone to stop editing because it "looks" like they're doing something wrong. As said above, you're welcome to request another administrator's insight if you wish. m.o.p 21:04, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
COIHi
you've helped me out before, with a conflict of interest problem, so having much more experience than me on wikipedia, I thought I would be bold enough to ask again for help.
Similar problem to last, User_talk:Hobbycraft is editing the HOBBYCRAFT article and making changes that aren't citably right. I think the user name suggest and history suggests a conflict of interest case.
Can you please, speak to them addressing this issue.
Thank you very much for your help.
Markcoulter50 (talk) 22:27, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
- I've blocked that user for username violations. Thanks a lot for letting me know! Keep up the great work, m.o.p 23:00, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkbackcausa sui (talk) 18:47, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Hello. You have a new message at causa sui's talk page. causa sui (talk) 20:54, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Problematic editing on militant atheism
- I hope it's not considered defamatory to repeat the final line: "I merely present the diffs above, and let others draw their own conclusions. Is this a duck? Does it quack? You decide.". Unfortunately, the concerned community no longer has that opportunity. What did you decide on their behalf? Does this duck quack, or not? bobrayner (talk) 15:42, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- It's not your wording, it's the very idea of it. Going to what's allegorically a public place and shouting, "Hey, everybody, this man is a criminal!" is one step below blatantly forming a lynch mob. As I've said, I have no problem with your wording or evidence, just your location of choice. Wikipedia is not, unfortunately, a democracy - letting others draw their conclusions and voice their opinions is not how a sockpuppet investigation works.
- So yes, please don't go restoring any of that section. We're not discussing editors, we're discussing the content they produce. Anything else has a sub-board to deal with it (like WP:SPI).
- Hopefully that clears things up! I'll be happy to answer any more questions should you have them. Cheers, m.o.p 15:48, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Hello User:Bobrayner, I noticed the section you created on the militant atheism talk page. If you do feel the way you do about User:Turnsalso and the anonymous IP Addresses, you can take this up with WP:SPI. Thanks, AnupamTalk 15:52, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
Are you kidding my MoP? Above your write: Going to what's allegorically a public place and shouting, "Hey, everybody, this man is a criminal!" is one step below blatantly forming a lynch mob. AND We're not discussing editors, we're discussing the content they produce. Yet you call this edit by Lionelt "good faith," at WQA? MoP, I would not ask you to agree with me or to like me, but can I please ask you not to insult me with these double standards.Griswaldo (talk) 16:18, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
]
- Griswaldo, I mean no offense when I say this, but I'd appreciate it if you stayed out of discussions which didn't involve you. Also, please don't put words in my mouth. Thanks, m.o.p 16:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I have not put words in your mouth. You said that you would assume good faith about Lionel. If you "assume good faith" it means you assume his edits were in "good faith." If you did not intend that meaning I suggest you reconsider what you wrote. Also, if you want me to "stay out of discussion which don't involve me" then I suggest your first order of business should be to do the same thing yourself. You decided to post at WQA, when there was no mention of you or anything you've done in that thread. Once again, I expect people not to practice double standards. So as long as you cannot show me that you will treat me as you ask to be treated yourself, I will not oblige you. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:21, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Please stop bickering. I'm not quite sure what you're trying to accomplish here. I've already explained what I meant when I said assuming good faith, but I'll explain again: I assumed that Lionelt was not hounding or deliberately haranguing you. I did not say, at any point, that his edit content was good faith, and I've told him not to edit like that again. So please stop accusing me of saying things I haven't said.
- Also, I posted in WQA because, as a mediator in this case and as an administrator, it's my duty to weigh in on administrative noticeboards, especially when the case is an ongoing discussion I've been participating in for three months. It is not your duty to weigh in on discussions on my talk page that don't concern you. I hope the distinction is clear here. m.o.p 20:33, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I think you are confused about something. Content is never good faith. "Editing in good faith" and "good faith edits" refers to the intent of the editor always. It has nothing to do with content. My assumption that you also felt the edits were appropriate comes from the fact that you did not say they weren't appropriate and clearly feel that his intentions were good. If you'd like to set the record straight on that issue you still can. I've asked you twice now to discuss the actual edits that are the focal point of the thread. Also, I moved the thread to ANI, per the suggestion of the editor who marked it "resolved."Griswaldo (talk) 20:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- See Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#User:Lionelt_--_following_my_past_edits_to_drum_up_support_against_me. FYI, I copy pasted the entire discussion because both you and Collect were critical of my initial post and I thought it was the right thing to do to preserve that criticism in the record of the conversation. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:43, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- In reply to your first paragraph: I'm going to give up now, as it seems you're misunderstanding most of what I type, but you're the one who stated that the content was not good faith (as you said, not appropriate), and I agreed - I referred to his intent in replying to you, and said that I assumed good faith in his motives, not his replies. I can't really say that in a clearer way, so my apologies if it's hard to understand. Also, as I've already said, I've left a message for Lionelt about his edits, so clearly I do not feel they're appropriate. m.o.p 20:57, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I, too, find these double standards vexing.
- Which diff is defamatory?
- I had hitherto thought that people on the article talkpage might like to be aware of potential problems with votestacking on the article talkpage (and 3rr evasion, of course). Would it be permitted to add a link to that list of diffs when it's in a different place, or would you consider that defamatory too? bobrayner (talk) 16:23, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- As I said, the information is not defamatory, but the way it's presented is - we have specific processes available to pursue should one feel there are sockpuppets about. However, calling someone out with the intent of informing the community is overstepping your authority and damaging to the accused's character. Also, there's no way a community discussion about whether or not one editor is a sockpuppet can end in anything other than a sockpuppet investigation anyway.
- So, in closing, please don't bring issues like this to the talk page. If you're concerned about votestacking, take it to the appropriate venue - if your concerns are validated, we'll take measures against said puppets. Cheers, m.o.p 16:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I am very disappointed that it's no longer permissible to raise problems with article-editing on the article talkpage. Previous concerns about sockpuppetry were simply ignored; the difference this time is that it's backed by lots of diffs.
- I'm fairly confident that the people concerned have sufficient technical nous to make checkuser draw a blank. And, let's be entirely honest, within minutes of me creating an SPI, an admin of the right persuasion will be getting an email suggesting that an SPI needs their attention. And SPI does not see offsite coordination by a facebook group &c. Finally, any null result at SPI will be used at the article in much the same way as previous administrative decisions have been. So, I do not believe that an SPI will improve either the article, or the encyclopædia as a whole. bobrayner (talk) 17:08, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- If you don't think the pre-existing methods set in place for situations like this are sufficient, you can always raise that concern at the village pump or suggest a policy revision - however, SPI is the venue for these requests, and the only venue. The talk page can not substitute. m.o.p 17:10, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
76.228.226.122Thank you for blocking the anonymous user, who is being counterproductive and rude. (although I think the block should have been one week, but I guess ok at least)
Can you also please try to hide the edit summaries of these edits if possible?
This and
this
Thanks and regards, talk 05:04, 26 September 2011 (UTC)]
- I'll extend the block if this behaviour continues after the block period is over.
- As for the edit summaries, those don't warrant hiding - I apologize for their content, but they don't meet the criteria of what I should remove. It's best just to ignore them for now. Cheers, m.o.p 05:13, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
- Okay, good to know, if I did nothing wrong, no permanent block will be enforced. The IP does not volunteer on WP as an admin and so the disproportionately out of line comments and threats of his should be ignored. --talk 05:19, 26 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Sounds good. We only hide extremely offensive revisions; milder ones stay in the edit history. Thanks again for bringing this to our attention! Cheers, m.o.p 05:31, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
Email
Jasper Deng (talk) 05:29, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
- Reading. talk) 06:00, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Bad Girls Club
- I've blocked Junebea for 2 days for disregarding warnings. m.o.p 20:30, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks for helping :) Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 21:06, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkback
- And again.Griswaldo (talk) 04:24, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
- And again ... but maybe the last. You can settle this question once and for all. See the talk page.Griswaldo (talk) 06:09, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'm sure I'm not alone in wanting to hear your replies to the last responses posed to you at that page. IMO, I don't know why you went down the road you did, but as far as I can tell you're blatantly misrepesenting facts about your own actions when people are brining concerns to you. You might think that since you closed the RfC the matter is settled, but it is not. You're actions have not made my life any more pleasant in the last few days vis-a-vis trying to deal with Anupam's disruption and I think you owe us all answers. So please revisit this thread and deal with the open questions. Thanks.Griswaldo (talk) 02:19, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
- I invite you to stop asking the same question again and again. This would be appreciated. Thanks, m.o.p 02:33, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Block question
- No, I just block obviously bad-faith accounts on sight. Advertising/spam accounts fall under that category. m.o.p 00:37, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Thanks
- Thank you. I've unlocked the article for whatever may come. If I'm needed again, feel free to let me know. Thanks for the kind words again, m.o.p 05:12, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
reminder
- We're still waiting to see if the user understands COI policy (per Ed's question). I'll prod the user and see if they'll answer. talk) 19:20, 30 September 2011 (UTC)]
Nextel logo deleted
- Mmm, good point. What's the link to the logo in question? m.o.p 01:33, 2 October 2011 (UTC)
Support of Sage City SymphonyYou deleted this page before I had a chance to go back in and add the stuff that you wanted to see, including the links within Wikipedia to important composers such as Lou Callabro (who started this orchestra and cites it in his Wikipedia page) and Susan Hurley whose work we premiered (SC is also mentioned in her Wikipedia entry). (Let alone links about the works we have performed.) And we have a web site at www.sagecitysymphony.org, have existed for over 35 yrs and are a significant cultural resource in the Bennington area such that we receive grants from local, statewide and national foundations.
I broke my wrist last weekend and am doing one-handed pecking so it'll take me a few days to get that loaded in. We are going out for a bit now, but I would appreciate your undeleting the page so that I don't have to re-invent the starting part when I go back in tomorrow to add links. Or delete it entirely so that I can start fresh - at this point either would work as long as I can start some serious work on it tomorrow. I am the webmaster by the way, so I do have access to content and more links.
Thank you, Celia Murray — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.228.127.119 (talk) 14:22, 1 October 2011 (UTC)
- It looks like fixed everything up. Best of luck, m.o.p 01:35, 2 October 2011 (UTC)]
Reply on Deterence's talk page
MA
After the beating you took you deserve a cold one--on me! Thanks for being fair and balanced – Lionel (talk) 03:55, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
- Hey, thanks! Glad to help out. :) m.o.p 03:56, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
Deletion of Mau5trap Recordings
--neocharles (talk) 07:33, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Existence does not equal notability - the subject has to be notable to get a Wikipedia page. m.o.p 12:05, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
Questoin re: AIV
- Addendum, actually, I read it very clearly in WP:VANDNOT: "Uploading or using material on Wikipedia in violation of Wikipedia's copyright policies is prohibited, but is not vandalism unless the user does so maliciously or fails to heed warnings." So if a person fails to heed warnings it is vandalism. My mistake here was that I only warned once. --Muhandes (talk) 12:29, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Eh, technically it is vandalism, but the user seems to be trying to improve the Wikipedia - that desire to help is misplaced in this case, as they seem to think that using copyrighted content is actually better. Weird. For most cases, yes, you should report copyvio to AIV - as long as they've been warned sufficiently. m.o.p 12:42, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- OK, he now did it again and the time stamp is after your last warning. Is it vandalism now? --Muhandes (talk) 12:32, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Yeah, if they're outright ignoring warnings. I've blocked for three days. m.o.p 12:40, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
Classmusic
- Oh, I know. But if somebody's lied to my face about using another account - and to other editors working on the article - I'm not about to let them go without a repercussion or two. I'd like Almost-instinct and Voceditnore to look over the article and fix up anything shifty. Also, I'd like Classmusic to respond to my warning, instead of blanking it and ignoring like they have to the above-named editors.
- So, in short, I know that COI doesn't bar editing, but it's enough of a concern that, given the user's recent behaviour, I'll stop them from doing anything until we've figured things out. This isn't too rouge-y, is it? I didn't hear that. Perhaps he is unaware of the sockpuppet investigation findings. Anyhow it seems that DeltaQuad has also blocked the Classmusic account. I left a note on his page about using the unblock template, but re-iterated that he needs to read the COI and Autobiography guidelines and stick to them scrupulously, if he gets unblocked. In the Opera and Classical Music WikiProjects, we get a lot of articles for performers, ensembles, etc. created by their agents and PR people, and often themselves. In my experience, the best I can hope for after one of these tussles is that they'll edit their article according to the guidelines in future. I have yet to find a single one who has ever contributed anything else to Wikipedia. Their only interest in the project is as a PR tool. Having said that, at least it results (after much red-pencilling from other editors) in one new article on a notable subject that we didn't have before and in a small way redresses the pop culture systemic bias here. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 13:40, 5 October 2011 (UTC)]
Danish election
- Never mind, it's been pulled by another admin. All the best, Jenks24 (talk) 11:03, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry about that! I was busy all day and didn't get your message until now. Thanks for letting me know, though! Cheers, m.o.p 19:51, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
3RRHey there! :)
Well WP:CRYSTAL has wined down, however, there's currently a
The Bad Girls Club (season 7). I have notified the two users [32], [33]. The evidence can be found here. They are having an edit-conflict on how the "Duration of cast" should be presented. Since there's no rules regarding anything like that, and it was made up about a year ago, I couldn't warned them to stop their e/c with anything except the 3RR rule. Maybe they need an admin to tell them to stop, so that's why I came to you :) Thanks, Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 01:17, 6 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Temporary page protection requested. Calabe1992 (talk) 01:29, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
- I can be Block because I don't care to be part of a web/Encyclopedia of Lies! Although I have contributed anonymously to wikipedia since 2008, I only just signed on a few weeks ago to report an error that I thought was made. But you and your other BIASED administrators have refused to fix this error, instead you're all threatening to block me.
- I agree with Ed in this case - I have no grudge against Ibibiogrl, but the editor's attitude, despite multiple pleas for otherwise, remained combative and even insulting at points. If there's a serious expression of guilt and the editor decides they'd like to walk a different path, I'd be happy to help. However, as it is now, I believe the block should stand. m.o.p 22:52, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
- I agree that it would require some indication that she wants help. Just my 2¢ as the person she's most upset with. — kwami (talk) 23:05, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
- For the record, your input is highly appreciated, and very admirable; as the editor in conflict with her, I respect your neutrality and helpfulness. As for Ibibiogrl, we'll see where that goes. Cheers! m.o.p 00:59, 17 June 2011 (UTC)
- I agree that it would require some indication that she wants help. Just my 2¢ as the person she's most upset with. — kwami (talk) 23:05, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
Can you adopt me i want a new adopter.
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Mr. Pit (2nd nomination)
This isn't personalI belive the AFD on Campaign for "santorum" neologism was closed way to early and am contesting your close.
An editor has asked for a deletion review of Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2011 June 21. Because you closed the deletion discussion for this page, speedily deleted it, or otherwise were interested in the page, you might want to participate in the deletion review. KoshVorlon' Naluboutes Aeria Gloris 12:17, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
James Ball
Thank you for your concern. But I will not be blocked - _I am adding_ wikipedia to adblock. I also feel regret for having donated to the site before, but this will not happen again. Demonuminon (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 23:25, 23 June 2011 (UTC).
Thomas James BallWhy the hell did you delete his page?
Does his suffering mean nothing to you?
Heartless bitch. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.57.206.141 (talk • contribs)
Hey, Master of Puppets, OBVIOUSLY there is a public interested in keeping this article. Restore your deletion. Look at the massive flood of comments regarding your deletion here: http://www.<linkremoved>.com/2011/06/24/the-organized-silencing-of-a-man-publicly-burned-to-death/ and here http://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/i81rw/the_organized_silencing_of_a_man_publicly_burned/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Romerom (talk • contribs) 20:05, 24 June 2011 (UTC)
- Ball HIT A FOUR-YEAR-OLD CHILD, refused to pay child support, called for insurrection, demanded terrorism and violence as a solution, ultimately killed himself (leaving his children without a father) and damaged public property in the process. Even after all that, his incoherent message has mostly been ignored except by the less discriminating people claiming to speak for "men's rights" who haven't bothered to look into the details of his case. (If you really want to damage your cause, adopt a grown man who hits his own four-year-old child and flakes out on his child support as your poster boy.) --Orange Mike | Talk 20:26, 24 June 2011 (UTC) (proud father who has never hit his child in his lifetime)
Hey, "proud father who never hit his child in his lifetime", not everybody is against disciplining their children by spanking. He said his daughter was licking his hand, and he had told her repeatedly to stop. She didn't, and he smacked her. He didn't punch her, or send her to the hospital, or cause any serious injury. Just enough to have his wife baited into calling the police on him by child protective services. As for child support, he paid his child support until the point where he wasn't able to afford it due to an employment issue. Is that such a crazy thing to have happen? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.211.155.1 (talk) 04:28, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
- Again, while I do sympathize with the family and supporters, I am not taking sides, nor do I have any bias in this situation. I am not a feminist, nor am I a misogynist - I am fair and neutral towards all people, whether they be abusive fathers or abused fathers.
- This deletion was enforced solely in keeping with Wikipedia's long-established policies. Mr. Ball's death, while indeed tragic, was not reported throughout the reliable media enough to show his notability.
- I hope this makes sense to all those saddened by Mr. Ball's passing. Cheers, m.o.p 21:04, 24 June 2011 (UTC)
- I understand that you do not think that Mr. Ball's death is something that qualifies as an event and thus deleted said article. I disagree but I do see the merits of your argument. However, you claim to be unbiased in this debate and yet for someone who judges on the letter of the law you break the law and close debate 2.5 days before final judgment is to be rendered. If you have no corner then I ask why make this article a special case that it must be quelled , by your own admission, 2.5 days before any other articles found in similar circumstances are voted upon. I petition you to reinstate and allow the normal course of the discussion continue for the 2.5 days, allow the full opportunity for the pro side to make their case then recluse yourself from the final judgment. This is the only way to ensure transparency so that your claim of neutrality can be believed. CaffOMHW (talk) 03:28, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
- Ahead of things, let me tell you that I appreciate the civility.
- Wikipedia's policies aren't law - they're guidelines. As an administrator, it's my job to apply policy in a way that is completely devoid of bias and benefits the encyclopedia as a whole.
- On a side note, the deletion nomination was closed 1.5 days before the normal time. The page had a whole work week to be saved, rewritten or reworked; however, due to the lack of outside sourcing that carried reliability, there was nothing to keep that wasn't editorialized or unencyclopedic. I would also like to point out that almost every account that voiced their opinion in the 'keep' spectrum had either only edited that page or had edited very little aside from the page. Meanwhile, the deletion argument was put forward by experienced users.
- Though I understand that some people take offense to my early closure, I assure them that one extra day would not have yielded success, and that I took many factors into consideration before closing the discussion.
- Again, thank you for the civility, but I won't be overturning judgment or recreating a deletion discussion at this date. m.o.p 08:17, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
ITNthx for the 2 quick updates of my nom ;)
but also can you see the bolivia one. its got support and very nearly out of the news. we could tack it nearer the border.Lihaas (talk) 22:26, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
Ball closure.
Thank God you are an ambassador for WP, and against censorship, MoP. When Wikipedia fails, and it eventually will, it will largely be because most people don't like to be gamed and would rather not read well cultivated information that is maintained by dishonest brokers who hide behind rules that are never applied in an even-handed manner. The idea that a story is not relevant merely because it is not yet encyclopedic is ridiculous when one sees all the articles which linger on for months or years in the same state. The idea that a story is not relevant because the motivations/justifications of the user are suspect would be grounds for eliminating half the biographical articles in WP. It smacks of an agenda. The appearance of impropriety is as bad as actual impropriety.173.78.20.96 (talk) 04:51, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
- I appreciate the feedback.
- I do my best to maintain an equal, proportionate response in all dealings on Wikipedia; I don't defend things I like, or attack things I dislike, just for the reason of screwing with people. That strikes me as childish. Instead, the most I can do is try to help others understand Wikipedia policies, which are generally mind-bending and hard to grasp (for example, most people ask, "What's the reasoning a war hero isn't considered notable when Donkey Kong is?").
- Maybe one day the policies will change. I mean, most of these were written five, six year ago - the world's changing, and I expect they will with time. But, for now, the guidelines handle what comes in.
- Again, thanks for the input. I appreciate not being personally attacked - it makes it easier to reply. Cheers, m.o.p 05:08, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Natami (2nd nomination)
- The close was thoroughly thought-out, so there's not much ground for me to explore that I haven't already. If you're set on going to DRV, there's nothing I can say which will change your mind, and it's your right to ask for a review. However, current consensus sits at delete (unless the 'keep' side is hiding an ace-in-the-hole reliable source or something). Cheers, m.o.p 04:55, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- So, what about the reliable sources we already brought up in the AfD such as this interview in Amiga Future or this news article from nr2.ru? We've already established that Amiga Future isn't sponsored by a hardware company as one !voter there falsely claimed. On a related note, did you discount the !votes from individuals making misleading statements or those claiming there were "no independent reliable sources"? (I could tell you how that !voter happened to show up there, but he isn't going to like it.) I could also link to forum posts by another delete !voter who showed up there who was very much into a "delete at any cost" mode because he doesn't like "amiga clones". --Tothwolf (talk) 05:11, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- Those sources were there before the previous close, and I, like the previous administrator, do not think they're strong enough.
- I've already covered what kind of rationale was discounted and what wasn't.
- As for your last statement about other editors - I'm not quite sure what your point is, but I don't think it's relevant. As I said, I've discounted any rationale that does not apply policy.
- Cheers, m.o.p 05:33, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- Uh, no...nr2.ru was only brought up in the second AfD. Strong enough is also an argument to be made in a !vote, not a closing statement. --Tothwolf (talk) 05:56, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- My apologies, the Russian source was indeed added after the first AfD. Still too shaky for a stand-alone article, though. Cheers, m.o.p 13:42, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- To follow up on my earlier comment, while I don't really want to get into an "X did this because of Y" sort of thing with regards to this AfD, there were a number of delete !voters who showed up there for personal reasons/vendettas/bias and/or who made false statements about sources. Despite the template at the top of the AfD, the second AfD also didn't suffer from the forum canvassing that the first did. One of the delete !voters actually came by way of the forum and first AfD and was trolling because of his personal dislike of Amiga clones. --Tothwolf (talk) 15:33, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
If they have valid, policy-based rationale, their personal motivation doesn't matter, solely for the reason that an encyclopedia based on liking or disliking things would crumble instantly. I'm sure some of the deletion crew could just-as-easily blame keep voters for being enthusiasts and fans of Natami - but that's not important. As a result, making allegations of personal bias is unnecessary. The help is appreciated, but there's nothing I can do with the information. m.o.p 15:39, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- It matters when someone makes false statements and tries to hide what they are doing behind policy. As for keeps, quite a number appear to be from well established editors who don't appear to be all that interested in Amiga topics. As for myself, I wasn't even aware of NatAmi until the first AfD and didn't even !vote in the first AfD since I thought it was pretty obvious it was headed for a no-consensus close. --Tothwolf (talk) 15:58, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- Again, if their rationale is grounded in policy, their motivation does not matter, simply because it's impossible to discern someone's intent through text, and because the second someone accuses another of favoritism/malicious intent the entire argument turns into a bunch of people shouting, "You're lying." That's why there's nothing I can do with your information in this case. Cheers, m.o.p 16:02, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- Apologies to you, M.O.P., for addressing another editor on your talk page, but I just wanted to jump in this conversation. Tothwolf, with no prejudice against you at all I strongly suggest you take this in perspective. There have been two AFDs and an ANI report over this article. The way you treated me on my talk page threatening DRV because I was a new administrator was, as I feel it, borderline harassing. That you canvassed two other administrators to talk to me was also a below the belt move. In good faith, I relisted the debate and it has closed again as delete. I strongly suggest taking the advice at WP:DGAF into account here and let the issue go. I don't think there will be a problem recreating this article, even pulling the old content back from the deletion log, when the subject has better sources in a broader community. I hold no ill feeling toward you, this is purely honest advice.--v/r - TP 16:46, 27 June 2011 (UTC)]
- TParis, while you are correct in that this talk page is not the place for this, because you brought this up here and you seem to value honest feedback, I'll address this here.
In no way did I ever threaten you with DRV, let alone because you were a new administrator (discussion in question). I did however upon noticing that you had passed RFA only days earlier decide it best not to press you further in public and instead sent you this short email: "Sigh. I just noticed you just finished your RFA. The Natami AfD was a bad AfD to pick to close right out of the gate. It is likely to end up at DRV and given the magazine I mentioned, overturned. I really wish you would reconsider your close. You might have noticed I didn't even !vote in the AfD itself, however I did point out a number of things and took a couple of people to task for making false or misleading statements." That is the only email I sent you about the matter and not once did I ever threaten you with DRV. Please get your facts correct before making statements such as this because such mistakes can have a negative effect on others.
After you replied expressing your disagreement over the sources (and implied that I might be biased because I sometimes contribute to computing-related articles) I asked a number of other administrators (way more than two, actually) what they thought of the AfD's close because I wanted unbiased feedback to see if I was somehow totally off-track before I initiated a DRV. The feedback I got was fairly unanimous in that the close was problematic. Before I had a chance to draft a DRV however, you reverted your own close and relisted the AfD from scratch with a new listing. In no way did I ever "canvass" anyone to "talk to you" and if others did contact you directly, they did so at their own discretion and for their own reasons.
There indeed have been two AfDs, the first of which you closed (although one could also argue that the second was merely a relist of the first). The AN/I "discussion" you also mentioned wasn't really over this article or the first AfD, it was an attempt by someone to game AN/I when they were unable to bully me on their talk page. Please be more careful making these sort of blanket statements in the future because as I mentioned above such statements can cause problems for others. --Tothwolf (talk) 17:38, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- You're email was exactly like your reply here. You like to make threats without actually making them: "such statements can cause problems". There is very little way your email cannot be interpreted as anything other than a threat of DRV because I am a new administrator. This is all I'll say on M.O.P.'s talk page as I came here to offer honest advice and you don't seem interested in it. If you'd like to discuss further with me, you know where to find my talk page.--v/r - TP 17:51, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- TParis, in no way did I ever make an implied threat. While I may be a little blunt and abrasive at times (or maybe I'm just an assume good faith in that you simply misremembered the facts I outlined above when you made this statement here. It is easy to forget a few details here or there and not everyone maintains detailed notes for this sort of stuff (I do, for a number of reasons, although I didn't always).
As far as honest advice goes, this is a two-way street and I gave you my opinion as well. If you choose to ignore and discount it, so be it, but I'd suggest you be much more careful in the future and get your facts correct before you make the sort of statement you made above. Such statements can and do cause problems for other editors. Who knows, it may just be that you've not been around long enough yet to have witnessed people blocked or punished in some way because someone else didn't have their facts together. (If you do decide you want to continue this discussion, perhaps we should take this elsewhere.) --Tothwolf (talk) 18:14, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
]
Heaton Park Hebrew Congregation (2nd nomination)
Natami
Thought you might want to know
- (talk page stalker) That's just the same little ideological website which has been pushing for the "Martyrdom of St. Thomas Ball" attention since day one; no actual new coverage. --Orange Mike | Talk 14:34, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
- I guess I should also mention that the way I found it, was that someone tried submitting it to Fark.com last night. The admins did not greenlight it, so that particular submission/thread did not go to the main Fark page, appearing only to those with Totalfark accounts. The submission said something like "Wikipedia deletes burning man" (I'm not at a computer with TF access so I might not have that exactly right). It might, theoretically, based on the submission, be considered some sort of off-site canvassing (it was submitted with the asinine tag). For what its worth, the thread went uncommented, so I don't think that particular attempt garnered any support. I just wanted to drop a line in case that this was just the first drop of a large storm. If I see anything else, I'll drop a line here. Umbralcorax (talk) 15:58, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
Wiki ad
4chan raid
Thomas James Bell, new information
- (reliable sources. --Orange Mike | Talk 13:33, 30 June 2011 (UTC)]
Happy Birthday
![](//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3d/Nuvola_apps_cookie.svg/50px-Nuvola_apps_cookie.svg.png)
Just a happy Birthday message to you, Master of Puppets, from the Wikipedia Birthday Committee! Have a great day!
Monterey Bay (talk) 02:00, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
User:BillyMoses
Natami
AFD
- Your input is appreciated, though there's nothing I can do with it but take a note. If you'd like, you can weigh in at the next AfD(s), when/if they arise. Cheers, m.o.p 19:42, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
Dr Myko San – Health from Mushrooms
- I'd be happy to help! However, I'm currently away from a computer (typing this on my phone), so I'll have to check in on the 11th of July. Does that sound okay? m.o.p 15:40, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
- wp:NODEADLINE :-) LeadSongDog come howl! 15:48, 7 July 2011 (UTC)]
From a former Wikipedian
-71.234.90.0 (talk) 04:50, 8 July 2011 (UTC)
- Hey, thanks so much! I'm not sure who you are, but I really appreciate the sentiment. Hope all is well! m.o.p 20:49, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
Deletion review for Thomas James Ball
DRV comment
DRV
Could you please overturn the deletion of these files per File:Signature of Amitabh Bachchan.svg and File:Signature of Zakir Hussain.svg:
- File:Signature of Vishwanathan Anand.svg
- File:Signature of Vijay Mallya.svg
- File:Signature of Venkaiah Naidu.svg
- File:Signature of Sudeep Bandhopadhyay.svg
- File:Signature of Sonia Gandhi.svg
- File:Signature of Somnath Chatterjee.svg
- File:Signature of Ratan Tata.svg
- File:Signature of Kumar Mangalam Birla.svg
- File:Signature of Rajeev Shukla.svg
- File:Signature of Raj Babbar.svg
- File:Signature of Rahul Gandhi.svg
- File:Signature of Priyanka Vadra.svg
- File:Signature of P. T. Usha.svg
- File:Signature of Narendra Modi.svg
- File:Signature of Nandan Nilekani.svg
- File:Signature of Manish Tewari.svg
- File:Signature of Leander Paes.svg
- File:Signature of Lata Mangeshkar.svg
- File:Signature of Kumar Mangalam Birla.svg
- File:Signature of Karia Munda.svg
- File:Signature of Kapil Sibal.svg
- File:Signature of Kamal Nath.svg
- File:Signature of K. Kamraj.svg
- File:Signature of Jaya Bachchan.svg
- File:Signature of Gautam Gambhir.svg
- File:Signature of Brinda Karat.svg
- File:Signature of Bharatsinh Solanki.svg
- File:Signature of Bhairon Singh Shekhawat.svg
- File:Signature of B. K. Birla.svg
- File:Signature of Azim Premji.svg
- File:Signature of Arun Jaitely.svg
- File:Signature of Aishwarya Rai Bachchan.svg
- File:Signature of Abhishek Manu Singhvi.svg
- File:Signature of Abhishek Bachchan.svg
- File:Signature of Sting.svg
- File:Signature of Br. L. D. Lobo.svg
- File:Signature of VJ Rannvijay Singh Singha.svg
Diligent07Appears to be less than new. See User talk:Raoulduke25 where he states that this is a deliberate series of edits.
- Can you please help defend our collective effort of including the obscene middle-finger incident in the Cheney Mason article? It should be maintained in the article for public interest, etc. Please see the Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard#Cheney Mason discussion page and include your thoughts in favor of having the content remain in the interests of the public, etc
[8], [9] and even imputation that an editor has a connection with the person [10]. He has been on since April, and started off as being experienced on WP IMHO. Kindly keep an eye out please. Especially for any sign of a real "collective effort"? Such as [11]? Cheers. Collect (talk) 11:36, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
A cookie for you!
Keep up the good work defending the "Wiki" against genre warriors. Thanks for the help! talk) 17:31, 13 July 2011 (UTC)]
Hello. You have a new message at Lionelt's talk page.
Semi protection
OK, this thing with the militant atheism page is impossibleThese guys are incredible... I could dig up diffs to show you how they revert and wikilawyer even the SMALLEST attempt to move the article closer to NPOV. But that would take a long time for you to read. How about I show you this instead:
These guys are utterly without scruples. Who in their right mind would remove the NPOV dispute tag when heated arguments have been raging for weeks and NO moves whatsoever have been made to fix the article? Oh right, that would be someone in their right mind who is running a propaganda platform.
Anyway... I wanted to ask your advice on what to do. These guys are impossible to work with. Most of the other editors have given up and refuse to put this page on their watchlist. So what to do then? Request formal mediation? Articles for deletion? Something else?
Me and the other editors would like to see the page replaced with a disambiguation page... since literally ALL the content has already been covered (better) in Criticism of atheism, State atheism and New Atheism.
Obhave (talk) 13:21, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
- Hello User:Master of Puppets. I noticed this conversation and thought I might add that an NPOV policy. Obhave (talk) 13:11, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
- One more thing, m.o.p... my opponents are currently twisting your words to make it look as if you were scolding user:Mann_jess all along. Obhave (talk) 14:42, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
]
User:Jasper Deng page protection
- No worries! m.o.p 19:35, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
Is there a procedure for brutal uncollaborated editing with a destructive intent?I noticed that you recently had problems with proposed brutal editing by Peter S Strempel. Although he has been more sensible on your project in the end (possibly because of your administrator status?) he has not been so with regard to the astrology project pages to which he made a similar 'razor-promise'. Could you please see this Afd request which is one of three he made for major 'history of astrology' articles within the last hour, with a promise on another important page that any comment which is not refrences within 7 days will be removed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Babylonian_astrology
Is there anything that can be done about this officially to stop him wreaking havoc with content whilst he knows that the small group of editors providing content on these pages are already stretched to the limit trying to keep up with what needs to be done? I don't understand what drives some people to want to edit WP like this, but I think it is entriely the result of his ego-stress that when he proposed an edit for a passage, no one favoured it. Hope you can help or advise Zac Δ talk 01:15, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks! assume good faith; I believe that Peter is simply trying to help improve Wikipedia. While his methods may be lacking in some areas, he has displayed a pretty decent grasp on the policies he's trying to enforce.
- However, I agree that he shouldn't be making any changes if they're not discussed with the community first. Do you mind pulling up a few diffs of where he went against consensus? I'll approach him with your concern then. Thanks, m.o.p 03:57, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
- Actually there hasn't been any significant content dispute with Peter. He proposed a change to a section edit which wasn't a very good proposition and a few editors commented but without rancur, and I added a new section post immediately afterwards to point out the proiposed change would contradict with how the definition was given correctly at a later point in the article, outlining how I understood WP policy expected the main astrology article to pull its own content together, along with its summarised content from its daughter pages. Peter never responded to this but other editors started working in that direction immediately. Then, without further discussion or comment, Peter came back four days later to announce an intention to take his 'word razor' to all unreferenced assertions on the main astrology page, its sub-pages, and the portal page itself, to ensure his perceived disagreement was not circumvented in pages he viewed as content forks (I'm still not sure what he means by that). My response to that can be seen - a perfectly reasonable request for him to do what he felt was most productive, but consider that citation-tagging was the way to go. I also placed comments on his talk-page, which you can read if you are interested. That he erupted into a frenzy of AfD requests last night says something, I think, about his unwillingness to discuss and engage in other views. Most of his posts appear as new section declarations that don't appear to have considered the responses other editors give him.
- I've summarised this in the ANI request Dougweller started. The deletion requests were a step too far IMO, and I'm concerned that Peter would spring to such drastic measures in reaction to what he perceives to be me not allowing him to do what he wants to do. I'll be away for a few days so I'm tying up my WP activity now. That underlines my concern that he intends to take such drastic action with only one week's notice of intent. Thanks for looking into this. It would be good if something could be proposed to stop huge problems before they occur. 10:35, 22 July 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zachariel (talk • contribs
)
- One last request. I have just noticed that a related complaint, which is quite serious but has been sidetracked (deliberatly IMO) by Peter's suggestions that I have prevented him from doing what he wants, has been collapsed as "going nowehere" by an unsympathetic editor.
- "Its ben here several days and no admin has even sniffed at a block or ban - clearly you're not going to get admin action. So this should got to WP:DR or WP:RFCU if you want to take it further. I've boldly collapsed this, though I won't be surprised if someone uncollapses it"
- If you can find the time could you at least take a look at that related problem, and consider uncollapsing it, because the issues are serious and have gone beyond the point where Dispute resolution are appropriate. I will be away and have nothing more to add, but the problems identified still remain. Zac Δ talk 10:58, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
What to do?
- I've started a threat at ANI. Those AfDs are purely pointy and if no one objects I'll close them. talk) 06:11, 22 July 2011 (UTC)]
- Replied there. m.o.p 08:20, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
Talk Page on Militant Atheism - Introduction Section
- The update is appreciated, thanks very much. I've been dealing with life for the past two weeks, but I'll be back to close that discussion tonight or tomorrow. Thanks again, m.o.p 22:03, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
- Just bringing this up again, given the current state of this section. I believe the discussion will be archived automatically if not closed. I'm sorry if I sound pushy with you having a lot on your plate of late. If you would prefer, I could alert User:Fastily instead. Turnsalso (talk) 16:55, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
ITN
- I knew that tab I closed had unfinished business on it... thanks. 2008 University of Central Arkansas shootings is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.
The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2008 University of Central Arkansas shootings(2nd nomination) until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on good quality evidence, and our policies and guidelines.
Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article.
talk 14:00, 1 September 2011 (UTC)]
Hey
- Done! Both your userpage and the transcluded page are protected. Cheers, « ₣M₣ » 04:09, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Restored. m.o.p 05:21, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
]
User talk:Joshua the Independent
- My mistake - my block script auto-filled the edit summary. The block was issued due to the user's newfound will to disrupt Wikipedia intentionally. Their previous contributions are welcome, but this behaviour necessitates administrative action. m.o.p 21:52, 13 September 2011 (UTC)
Say hi to your imaginary girlfriend for me
- Well, I do love getting hate mail. Thanks for the laugh! Cheers, m.o.p 05:17, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
...further to the above lovely note, I weighed in on Calabe's talk page - there appears to be more confusion here than at first glance. bou·le·var·dier (talk) 05:19, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
Sorry to drop by again, but Silentsizzlingsausage (talk · contribs) would appear to be a duck. bou·le·var·dier (talk) 05:31, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
- No, it's not an issue! Thanks for the note, blocked. Cheers, WP:SPI. Thanks again, m.o.p 06:13, 14 September 2011 (UTC)]
I have to admit ...
- See the above section. The link is apparently a very subtle spam link that Calabe is removing, and socks are springing up to revert him. Swarm u / t 10:20, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
Moderation
- Alright, I'll make my way back. Thanks for letting me know! m.o.p 05:18, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
User:12.139.96.228
- To be honest, this case is perplexing. Half of this user's edits are constructive (mostly sourced), the other half aren't sourced - and the user won't reply to anybody. I'm also too busy to go through every edit and confirm whether or not it's good. I forgot about this for a while - I'll think about it tonight and figure something out for tomorrow. Thanks for reminding me! m.o.p 05:18, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
Whoops
- Whoops! Must not have been looking when I ran my block script. Thanks for letting me know, I've reblocked them for a far shorter (technically, an infinitely shorter) time. Cheers, m.o.p 22:58, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
Ashleyleggat404
- You're fully right in that the blanking policy covers indefinite blocks. I've removed the user's talk page rights as a result. Thanks again! m.o.p 00:28, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkback
Moderation
- If you look into this please consider whether Anupam's actions on the talk page and the entry itself are violations of WP:OWN. He's been driving off those he disagrees with by bludgening them to death with argument and heavily policing the entry claiming that there is a consensus written in stone despite many dissenting voices. Others have taken to simply calling him "the article's owner." I have had enough of this behavior personally and left him a message about it on his talk page. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:52, 20 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Dear User:Master of Puppets, the above user has misrepresented the occurrences at the article. I started another Introduction discussion at the article's talk page but User:Griswaldo has chosen to edit war over a second NPOV tag, despite the fact that one already exists in the article. He has done so despite the fact that the Introduction is being discussed in a peaceful manner at the talk page, in violation of your injunction: "We've only got consensus on this proposed versions (and loose consensus at that) - please do not attempt to subvert said consensus by making undiscussed changes." I have posted a message on his talk page about this behaviour. Nevertheless, I also do not wish to argue with the user personally and would prefer if you could go back to moderating the discussion between the two parties at the talk page. Thanks for taking the time to read this message. With regards, AnupamTalk 20:58, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- His "injunction?" Adding a neutrality tag to a specific sentence which an editor disputes the neutrality of is hardly "subverting the consensus by making undiscussed changes." Please stop wikilawyering to get your way. There is a growing consensus against your position regarding this article in general as well, despite your aggressive policing of the entry and the talk page. See ]
- I just thought that I would mention that User:Griswaldo, after seeing this message, just now decided to comment in the discussion rather than edit war against consensus further. Thanks for taking the time to read this message. With regards, AnupamTalk 21:51, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- "Edit war against consensus further?" My comment there has nothing to do with your message here. I've made three total edits to this entry ever. One was a copy edit in June, another was reverting an IP vandal, and the third was the revert of your Ownership edit. Please do not insinuate that I'm a edit warrior on this page. It is disingenuous.Griswaldo (talk) 22:08, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Thank you all for approaching me with your concerns.
- Obviously, I do not support Anupam - this is because I'm remaining a neutral third party, and, therefore, can't take sides. However, Griswaldo: please keep in mind that I did ask for all discussion to take place on the talk page. Why not just add your complaints to the talk page? It would have been much easier to discuss.
- I do agree that adding a NPOV tag, while slightly redundant, isn't horrible, but your intent seems to have been to stir discussion on that particular section, discussion that would be much more appropriate on the talk page.
- As for your and Snalwibma's concerns of Anupam trying to 'own' the article, I'm curious as to what you two mean; what 'delusions'?
- Also, Griswaldo, I don't think Anupam meant to insinuate you are an edit warrior (though this is just my take) - rather, they wanted to add the note that you've weighed in on discussion. m.o.p 22:10, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- your intent seems to have been to stir discussion on that particular section - No that's incorrect. I didn't add this tag, I simply reverted Anupam's attempt to own the page when he removed it. I agreed with JimWae's addition of the tag and found Anupam's removal to be unwarranted and a display of ownership.Griswaldo (talk) 22:16, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Note that, for all intents and purposes, reverting somebody is adding whatever is included in your edit, regardless of who put it there first. You revert a removal, you're agreeing with the edition you're reverting to - simple.
- And, if you agreed with JimWae, then we go back to what I was saying earlier - say so on the talk page. Two of you agree? Great! That's closer to consensus. But it means nothing if you express your support by reverting removals.
- Again, as I've asked multiple times, please stop saying that Anupam is owning anything without giving me evidence of it first. m.o.p 22:22, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Dear User:Master of Puppets, thank you for your reply to all of us. The reason User:Snalwibma stated that I was attempting to "own" the article was because I reverted an undiscussed removal from the article, which not only myself, but two other users objected to. In fact, two anonymous IP Addresses also reverted User:Snalwibma. I was open to compromise on the issue and stated that I would accept User:Turnsalso's compromise on the issue. I kindly request you to look at that discussion yourself and get an honest reading of it. Also, the only reason I removed the second NPOV tag was because there was already one present, which I did not remove. I only reverted the addition of a second NPOV tag once and even explained myself on the talk page. When I went to the talk page, I found rude accusations and an anti-collaborative spirit, despite the fact that I have been nothing but polite. I hope this helps. With regards, AnupamTalk 22:25, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry - I know I should not rise to the bait, but I have to object to the comment "The reason User:Snalwibma stated that I was attempting to 'own' the article was because I reverted an undiscussed removal ..." How dare Anupam presume to know what is in my mind! The reason I describe Anupam's attitude to the article as one of ownership is because that is how s/he behaves - "policing" every edit, pronouncing on whether s/he "accepts" or "rejects" it, peremptorily reverting anything s/he does not like, without discussion, presuming to know others' motives, and judging them as fit/unfit to contribute to the article. This has been going on for weeks, if not months. It is impossible to discuss the content of the article, let alone improve the text, because everything is filtered through the approval/disapproval of the article's self-appointed guardian, Anupam. tendentious or disruptive when they bring up certain issues, even when they are clearly in the majority. That is not collaborative. I stopped editing the article heavily because of those issues. I don't have any delusions that my opinion is worth more than anyone else's here, but I would think that the large number of established, experienced editors who are all saying there's a problem, would indicate something. — Jess· Δ♥ 19:45, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
Please reconsider your full protection of Militant atheist
- In case you didn't notice, I asked that people think twice about pointing fingers at each other. If you'd like to start a sockpuppetry investigation, let me know, and we can take that avenue - however, don't accuse other editors of ownership without substance. If you think Anupam is trying to own things, give me something. Diffs, edits, anything. I'll check it out for you, but right now, baseless accusations are not what I'm looking for.
- Also, notice that I protected the article with your edit being the last one. How is that validating the very person you've been reverting?
- The protection will stay until consensus is reached. m.o.p 22:19, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Because protection is what he wants quite clearly. He's stalling conversation and shouting down people on the talk page, where, if you have a look, you'll see he's clearly in the minority. Because of your "injunction" as he calls it, he also claims that no matter how many people agree with a certain change it is illegitimate. I'll be happy to gather some diffs, but my first message to you above was to please look into the situation carefully before acting on it. Did you do that and come to the conclusion that I'm wrong or did you not head that request? Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:29, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Yes, I did heed your request. I don't see any ownership behaviour from Anupam, though, being involved in multiple disputes, I didn't have the time to read every last word on the page, so you're free to provide evidence. However, from what I can see, Anupam's last proposal was supported by the majority - not to count (and I don't mean to imply that I decide where consensus lies by looking at pure numbers), but from looking at pure supports versus opposes, eight people (nine including Anupam) support while four oppose. How does that make Anupam's views a minority? m.o.p 22:37, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- It depends on what view you are talking about. The current RFC on the introduction is something that most people don't even want to engage because most people think this very entry should be split up and integrated into other entries. I reluctantly engaged the RfC just now myself. The last time the more serious question about the entry was asked, several of the new commentators were not around, and there was "no consensus" found because the opposing side was chalk full of SPAs and editors with a view that is outright hostile to atheism (which is a legitimate view to hold, but it is a minority view). Let me find you some diffs.Griswaldo (talk) 22:43, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- User:Griswaldo, that is exactly the issue: you do not want to collaborate with other users on the talk page, which is why you were reluctant to participate in the current RfC. Moreover, there were several SPA's on the side of the opposition as well, including WP:NPOV. In addition, the split was again recently discussed and the specific case to do so was refuted by several editors. As such, there was no consensus for it. I hope this helps. With regards, AnupamTalk 22:52, 20 September 2011 (UTC)]
- No. You are trying to write an article that violates WP:SYNTH because it conflates New Atheism with oppressive communist regimes and their histories of violence. That's hardly NPOV. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:59, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
Hi m.o.p., as someone who occasionally looks at that page (and then washes my hands), I just want to compliment you as having done the right thing in full protecting. By way of unsolicited advice to the involved editors, the best thing they could do is to allow The Wrong Version to sit there a good long time, and devote their energy to other things. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:54, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
]
Yes, please reconsider your full protection of
WP:RS—deserve protection against misinformed reverts. Thanks Geremia (talk) 16:12, 22 September 2011 (UTC)]
Diffs of
- I'm not really sure where the ownership is here; nowhere in our policies is it stated that a user can't promote their RFC on the subject talk page. If it's ongoing and they'd like to move it to the forefront, what's wrong with that? More so, some of your summaries seem inaccurate - in that last diff, you state that Anupam is removing images, yet I only see Anupam adding an image (the peace dove that's at the top of the page). Also, you use repeating examples. m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Well clearly the last diff was wrong. Thanks for the vote of confidence. There are no repeat examples nor inaccurate summaries, just a mistaken copy paste of the second to last diff to the last position as well. I have fixed it. Cheers.
- Using "consensus claims from one RfC to reject changes made to article content
- Same as above. Using the "consensus" bludgeon to get his way. Please note that clearly we ought to edit by consensus, but this consensus is highly disputed, and IMO not there in the first place. The real problem is the way in which Anupam decides to use it like a trump card to remove changes he doesn't like. Ask yourself if all changes post "consensus" have been removed or just the ones Anupam decided he wanted removed.
Master of Puppets do you need more diffs or is this enough?Griswaldo (talk) 23:31, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Well I need more diffs because your "evidence" so far looks like a desperate attempt to incriminate an editor who has been very successful in persuading his colleagues to adopt his proposals. Anupam has presented his proposals, argued the merits and persuaded many editors. Anything you want to tell us about why you're having difficulty doing likewise? – Lionel (talk) 06:02, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- I don't see this is as conclusive evidence, either. And, it should be said - if people are editing against established consensus, then people are free to re-evaluate consensus, but edit-warring against it doesn't make much sense. m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- If not ownership then what is this - [28], [29], [30]? He removes two RfCs started by another editor, and revolving around the question that many of us actually find to be the fundamental question to answer regarding the entry. Then he edit wars to keep these RfCs off the page, claiming again to have some sort of authority stemming from your prior actions. If you aren't willing to do something here I'm going to another administrator and I'm going to ask for your initial "consensus," your strong arm administrating, and your lack of action here to be reviewed as well. Thanks.Griswaldo (talk) 17:08, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Anupam has already apologized for reverting those RfC additions, and we've moved past it. He also didn't claim to have administrative authority, but was waiting for my approval. We've cleared this up, it's not an issue. So no, I'm not going to take any action (as I've said here and on ANI). Now, if you'd like to threaten me and tell me that, since I'm not cooperating with your wills, you'll go to another administrator, that's fine - as I've said, you can seek outside opinions - but remember to keep a cool head, because borderline threats are not appreciated. m.o.p 21:49, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- It was not a threat, "borderline" or otherwise. You are conveniently ignoring a growing number of voices who are all saying the same thing - there is an ownership problem here. The deletion issue has not been "cleared up" as far as I'm concerned. Whenever it is mentioned Anupam insists that he did not "unilaterally" delete the RfCs from the page, which is a blatant distortion, since that is exactly what he did. He continues to act as a policeman at the page, and yes he does continue to cite your authority. Did you bother to read the many diffs I posted above in the second two sections? I will quote three random examples from those I provided for you if you want.
- When he first deleted the two RfCs he wrote: "rv - see discussion with reviewing administrator; approval needed to start another RfC while one is already occurring."
- When he deleted a fact tag that JimWae put into the lede: "rv excessive tagging per talk; tag is already extant in header; do not subvert previous consensus but gain consensus for potential additions per administrative notice"
- When he rejected another recent change to the entry: "accepted edits by User:Jkhwiki; rv removal of longstanding referenced content - see discussion on talk page and gain consensus for action per administrative injunction"
- In talk page comments and in edit summaries he consistently does the same thing. He refers to your authority, either directly or indirectly through your "notice" or your "injunction" as he likes to call it. I never said the claimed to have administrative authority, I said that he's using your authority, by way of your comments, such as the closure of the AfD to bully people. Do you deny that he citing your comments, because if you do then I must have fabricated those quotes. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:32, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
If you say "If you don't do A, then I'm going to go and do B", that's a threat. Anyway, that's not the issue - we've already covered all the issues with the RfC reverting, and Anupam won't do it again. Why keep raising hell over it?
We've already covered everything you bring up. And no, I'm not denying anything. I'm just saying this, and it's very simple: I don't think there has been any blatant ownership here. That's my judgment. If you disagree, again, feel free to raise this with another administrator or on ANI. m.o.p 23:12, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Regarding the new RFC, I still think there has not passed yet too much time since the last discussion about splitting the article. As far as I knew, repeating these sorts of debates (like splitting, deleting, renaming) before a larger amount of time has passed (like 6 months) is usually discouraged. And as others have also argued earlier, even if having multiple RFCs is possible, it's not very useful, and the new RFC seems to discourage further discussion about improving the lead introduction. So preventing multiple RFCs (and also a RFC about an issue debated not too long ago) does not look to me like evidence of bad faith intentions. Cody7777777 (talk) 21:37, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Cody, would you mind linking me to the previous RfC on splitting? m.o.p 21:49, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- The previous attempt to split the article can be found here. Cody7777777 (talk) 21:55, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Response
Yes, it does. Thanks, m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Dear User:Master of Puppets, I just noticed that User:Binksternet started another RfC while a current one is occurring. Is this appropriate? I reverted the addition motioning for one until your response is confirmed. If it is acceptable, then I apologize and will revert my edit. I look forward to your response. With regards, AnupamTalk 15:14, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'll form my reply on ANI. m.o.p 17:12, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- When you do please take into account my comment just above, regarding Anupam's edit warring to remove talk page comments (namely these RfCs) posted by others on the talk page. If you still don't think this is WP:OWN then clearly other administrators are needed here.Griswaldo (talk) 17:15, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Dear User:Griswaldo, how is going to a neutral mediator to address the issue owning the article? I acknowledge that the article is in dispute and as a result, I am asking an administrator for advice in this matter, NOT handling things on my own, as you have done by edit warring. Your WP:OWN allegations have not only been dismissed by this administrator, but by several other users, including, User:Lionelt, User:Cody7777777 and User:NYyankees51. Thanks, AnupamTalk 17:27, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- In reply to Griswaldo: reverting the RfCs was a mistake, but we've cleared that up now. As Anupam has stated at ANI, the intent was not to discourage discussion. If you think my judgment is compromised, you're welcome to seek another administrator's input. m.o.p 21:04, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- And as further evidence of WP:OWN, see this. Anupam adds a comment to everything that anyone else says, as if he/she is the owner of the article and everyone else is a subordinate contributor. This particular instance is pretty benign (although it clutters up the talk page with an unnecessary comment that merely says "I agree"), but I do think that Anupam at least needs to learn how to avoid giving the appearance of thinking he/she owns the article, and to desist from chipping in and saying the same thing over and over again, which almost makes meaningful discussion impossible! SNALWIBMA ( talk - contribs ) 17:31, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- While the input is appreciated, as I've said before, making allegations of ownership without hard evidence isn't going to get us anywhere. Anupam is not stopping others from discussing changes or forming consensus, and that's all that matters - refactoring the talk page or commenting on an issue is not against policy, and I'm not going to tell someone to stop editing because it "looks" like they're doing something wrong. As said above, you're welcome to request another administrator's insight if you wish. m.o.p 21:04, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
COIHi
you've helped me out before, with a conflict of interest problem, so having much more experience than me on wikipedia, I thought I would be bold enough to ask again for help.
Similar problem to last, User_talk:Hobbycraft is editing the HOBBYCRAFT article and making changes that aren't citably right. I think the user name suggest and history suggests a conflict of interest case.
Can you please, speak to them addressing this issue.
Thank you very much for your help.
Markcoulter50 (talk) 22:27, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
- I've blocked that user for username violations. Thanks a lot for letting me know! Keep up the great work, m.o.p 23:00, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkbackcausa sui (talk) 18:47, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Hello. You have a new message at causa sui's talk page. causa sui (talk) 20:54, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Problematic editing on militant atheism
- I hope it's not considered defamatory to repeat the final line: "I merely present the diffs above, and let others draw their own conclusions. Is this a duck? Does it quack? You decide.". Unfortunately, the concerned community no longer has that opportunity. What did you decide on their behalf? Does this duck quack, or not? bobrayner (talk) 15:42, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- It's not your wording, it's the very idea of it. Going to what's allegorically a public place and shouting, "Hey, everybody, this man is a criminal!" is one step below blatantly forming a lynch mob. As I've said, I have no problem with your wording or evidence, just your location of choice. Wikipedia is not, unfortunately, a democracy - letting others draw their conclusions and voice their opinions is not how a sockpuppet investigation works.
- So yes, please don't go restoring any of that section. We're not discussing editors, we're discussing the content they produce. Anything else has a sub-board to deal with it (like WP:SPI).
- Hopefully that clears things up! I'll be happy to answer any more questions should you have them. Cheers, m.o.p 15:48, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Hello User:Bobrayner, I noticed the section you created on the militant atheism talk page. If you do feel the way you do about User:Turnsalso and the anonymous IP Addresses, you can take this up with WP:SPI. Thanks, AnupamTalk 15:52, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
Are you kidding my MoP? Above your write: Going to what's allegorically a public place and shouting, "Hey, everybody, this man is a criminal!" is one step below blatantly forming a lynch mob. AND We're not discussing editors, we're discussing the content they produce. Yet you call this edit by Lionelt "good faith," at WQA? MoP, I would not ask you to agree with me or to like me, but can I please ask you not to insult me with these double standards.Griswaldo (talk) 16:18, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
]
- Griswaldo, I mean no offense when I say this, but I'd appreciate it if you stayed out of discussions which didn't involve you. Also, please don't put words in my mouth. Thanks, m.o.p 16:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I have not put words in your mouth. You said that you would assume good faith about Lionel. If you "assume good faith" it means you assume his edits were in "good faith." If you did not intend that meaning I suggest you reconsider what you wrote. Also, if you want me to "stay out of discussion which don't involve me" then I suggest your first order of business should be to do the same thing yourself. You decided to post at WQA, when there was no mention of you or anything you've done in that thread. Once again, I expect people not to practice double standards. So as long as you cannot show me that you will treat me as you ask to be treated yourself, I will not oblige you. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:21, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Please stop bickering. I'm not quite sure what you're trying to accomplish here. I've already explained what I meant when I said assuming good faith, but I'll explain again: I assumed that Lionelt was not hounding or deliberately haranguing you. I did not say, at any point, that his edit content was good faith, and I've told him not to edit like that again. So please stop accusing me of saying things I haven't said.
- Also, I posted in WQA because, as a mediator in this case and as an administrator, it's my duty to weigh in on administrative noticeboards, especially when the case is an ongoing discussion I've been participating in for three months. It is not your duty to weigh in on discussions on my talk page that don't concern you. I hope the distinction is clear here. m.o.p 20:33, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I think you are confused about something. Content is never good faith. "Editing in good faith" and "good faith edits" refers to the intent of the editor always. It has nothing to do with content. My assumption that you also felt the edits were appropriate comes from the fact that you did not say they weren't appropriate and clearly feel that his intentions were good. If you'd like to set the record straight on that issue you still can. I've asked you twice now to discuss the actual edits that are the focal point of the thread. Also, I moved the thread to ANI, per the suggestion of the editor who marked it "resolved."Griswaldo (talk) 20:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- See Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#User:Lionelt_--_following_my_past_edits_to_drum_up_support_against_me. FYI, I copy pasted the entire discussion because both you and Collect were critical of my initial post and I thought it was the right thing to do to preserve that criticism in the record of the conversation. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:43, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- In reply to your first paragraph: I'm going to give up now, as it seems you're misunderstanding most of what I type, but you're the one who stated that the content was not good faith (as you said, not appropriate), and I agreed - I referred to his intent in replying to you, and said that I assumed good faith in his motives, not his replies. I can't really say that in a clearer way, so my apologies if it's hard to understand. Also, as I've already said, I've left a message for Lionelt about his edits, so clearly I do not feel they're appropriate. m.o.p 20:57, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I, too, find these double standards vexing.
- Which diff is defamatory?
- I had hitherto thought that people on the article talkpage might like to be aware of potential problems with votestacking on the article talkpage (and 3rr evasion, of course). Would it be permitted to add a link to that list of diffs when it's in a different place, or would you consider that defamatory too? bobrayner (talk) 16:23, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- As I said, the information is not defamatory, but the way it's presented is - we have specific processes available to pursue should one feel there are sockpuppets about. However, calling someone out with the intent of informing the community is overstepping your authority and damaging to the accused's character. Also, there's no way a community discussion about whether or not one editor is a sockpuppet can end in anything other than a sockpuppet investigation anyway.
- So, in closing, please don't bring issues like this to the talk page. If you're concerned about votestacking, take it to the appropriate venue - if your concerns are validated, we'll take measures against said puppets. Cheers, m.o.p 16:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I am very disappointed that it's no longer permissible to raise problems with article-editing on the article talkpage. Previous concerns about sockpuppetry were simply ignored; the difference this time is that it's backed by lots of diffs.
- I'm fairly confident that the people concerned have sufficient technical nous to make checkuser draw a blank. And, let's be entirely honest, within minutes of me creating an SPI, an admin of the right persuasion will be getting an email suggesting that an SPI needs their attention. And SPI does not see offsite coordination by a facebook group &c. Finally, any null result at SPI will be used at the article in much the same way as previous administrative decisions have been. So, I do not believe that an SPI will improve either the article, or the encyclopædia as a whole. bobrayner (talk) 17:08, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- If you don't think the pre-existing methods set in place for situations like this are sufficient, you can always raise that concern at the village pump or suggest a policy revision - however, SPI is the venue for these requests, and the only venue. The talk page can not substitute. m.o.p 17:10, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
76.228.226.122Thank you for blocking the anonymous user, who is being counterproductive and rude. (although I think the block should have been one week, but I guess ok at least)
Can you also please try to hide the edit summaries of these edits if possible?
This and
this
Thanks and regards, talk 05:04, 26 September 2011 (UTC)]
- I'll extend the block if this behaviour continues after the block period is over.
- As for the edit summaries, those don't warrant hiding - I apologize for their content, but they don't meet the criteria of what I should remove. It's best just to ignore them for now. Cheers, m.o.p 05:13, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
- Okay, good to know, if I did nothing wrong, no permanent block will be enforced. The IP does not volunteer on WP as an admin and so the disproportionately out of line comments and threats of his should be ignored. --talk 05:19, 26 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Sounds good. We only hide extremely offensive revisions; milder ones stay in the edit history. Thanks again for bringing this to our attention! Cheers, m.o.p 05:31, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
Email
Jasper Deng (talk) 05:29, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
- Reading. talk) 06:00, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Bad Girls Club
- I've blocked Junebea for 2 days for disregarding warnings. m.o.p 20:30, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks for helping :) Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 21:06, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkback
- And again.Griswaldo (talk) 04:24, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
- And again ... but maybe the last. You can settle this question once and for all. See the talk page.Griswaldo (talk) 06:09, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'm sure I'm not alone in wanting to hear your replies to the last responses posed to you at that page. IMO, I don't know why you went down the road you did, but as far as I can tell you're blatantly misrepesenting facts about your own actions when people are brining concerns to you. You might think that since you closed the RfC the matter is settled, but it is not. You're actions have not made my life any more pleasant in the last few days vis-a-vis trying to deal with Anupam's disruption and I think you owe us all answers. So please revisit this thread and deal with the open questions. Thanks.Griswaldo (talk) 02:19, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
- I invite you to stop asking the same question again and again. This would be appreciated. Thanks, m.o.p 02:33, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Block question
- No, I just block obviously bad-faith accounts on sight. Advertising/spam accounts fall under that category. m.o.p 00:37, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Thanks
- Thank you. I've unlocked the article for whatever may come. If I'm needed again, feel free to let me know. Thanks for the kind words again, m.o.p 05:12, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
reminder
- We're still waiting to see if the user understands COI policy (per Ed's question). I'll prod the user and see if they'll answer. talk) 19:20, 30 September 2011 (UTC)]
Nextel logo deleted
- Mmm, good point. What's the link to the logo in question? m.o.p 01:33, 2 October 2011 (UTC)
Support of Sage City SymphonyYou deleted this page before I had a chance to go back in and add the stuff that you wanted to see, including the links within Wikipedia to important composers such as Lou Callabro (who started this orchestra and cites it in his Wikipedia page) and Susan Hurley whose work we premiered (SC is also mentioned in her Wikipedia entry). (Let alone links about the works we have performed.) And we have a web site at www.sagecitysymphony.org, have existed for over 35 yrs and are a significant cultural resource in the Bennington area such that we receive grants from local, statewide and national foundations.
I broke my wrist last weekend and am doing one-handed pecking so it'll take me a few days to get that loaded in. We are going out for a bit now, but I would appreciate your undeleting the page so that I don't have to re-invent the starting part when I go back in tomorrow to add links. Or delete it entirely so that I can start fresh - at this point either would work as long as I can start some serious work on it tomorrow. I am the webmaster by the way, so I do have access to content and more links.
Thank you, Celia Murray — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.228.127.119 (talk) 14:22, 1 October 2011 (UTC)
- It looks like fixed everything up. Best of luck, m.o.p 01:35, 2 October 2011 (UTC)]
Reply on Deterence's talk page
MA
After the beating you took you deserve a cold one--on me! Thanks for being fair and balanced – Lionel (talk) 03:55, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
- Hey, thanks! Glad to help out. :) m.o.p 03:56, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
Deletion of Mau5trap Recordings
--neocharles (talk) 07:33, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Existence does not equal notability - the subject has to be notable to get a Wikipedia page. m.o.p 12:05, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
Questoin re: AIV
- Addendum, actually, I read it very clearly in WP:VANDNOT: "Uploading or using material on Wikipedia in violation of Wikipedia's copyright policies is prohibited, but is not vandalism unless the user does so maliciously or fails to heed warnings." So if a person fails to heed warnings it is vandalism. My mistake here was that I only warned once. --Muhandes (talk) 12:29, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Eh, technically it is vandalism, but the user seems to be trying to improve the Wikipedia - that desire to help is misplaced in this case, as they seem to think that using copyrighted content is actually better. Weird. For most cases, yes, you should report copyvio to AIV - as long as they've been warned sufficiently. m.o.p 12:42, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- OK, he now did it again and the time stamp is after your last warning. Is it vandalism now? --Muhandes (talk) 12:32, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Yeah, if they're outright ignoring warnings. I've blocked for three days. m.o.p 12:40, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
Classmusic
- Oh, I know. But if somebody's lied to my face about using another account - and to other editors working on the article - I'm not about to let them go without a repercussion or two. I'd like Almost-instinct and Voceditnore to look over the article and fix up anything shifty. Also, I'd like Classmusic to respond to my warning, instead of blanking it and ignoring like they have to the above-named editors.
- So, in short, I know that COI doesn't bar editing, but it's enough of a concern that, given the user's recent behaviour, I'll stop them from doing anything until we've figured things out. This isn't too rouge-y, is it? I didn't hear that. Perhaps he is unaware of the sockpuppet investigation findings. Anyhow it seems that DeltaQuad has also blocked the Classmusic account. I left a note on his page about using the unblock template, but re-iterated that he needs to read the COI and Autobiography guidelines and stick to them scrupulously, if he gets unblocked. In the Opera and Classical Music WikiProjects, we get a lot of articles for performers, ensembles, etc. created by their agents and PR people, and often themselves. In my experience, the best I can hope for after one of these tussles is that they'll edit their article according to the guidelines in future. I have yet to find a single one who has ever contributed anything else to Wikipedia. Their only interest in the project is as a PR tool. Having said that, at least it results (after much red-pencilling from other editors) in one new article on a notable subject that we didn't have before and in a small way redresses the pop culture systemic bias here. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 13:40, 5 October 2011 (UTC)]
Danish election
- Never mind, it's been pulled by another admin. All the best, Jenks24 (talk) 11:03, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry about that! I was busy all day and didn't get your message until now. Thanks for letting me know, though! Cheers, m.o.p 19:51, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
3RRHey there! :)
Well WP:CRYSTAL has wined down, however, there's currently a
The Bad Girls Club (season 7). I have notified the two users [32], [33]. The evidence can be found here. They are having an edit-conflict on how the "Duration of cast" should be presented. Since there's no rules regarding anything like that, and it was made up about a year ago, I couldn't warned them to stop their e/c with anything except the 3RR rule. Maybe they need an admin to tell them to stop, so that's why I came to you :) Thanks, Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 01:17, 6 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Temporary page protection requested. Calabe1992 (talk) 01:29, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Mr. Pit (2nd nomination)
This isn't personalI belive the AFD on Campaign for "santorum" neologism was closed way to early and am contesting your close.
An editor has asked for a deletion review of Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2011 June 21. Because you closed the deletion discussion for this page, speedily deleted it, or otherwise were interested in the page, you might want to participate in the deletion review. KoshVorlon' Naluboutes Aeria Gloris 12:17, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
James Ball
Thank you for your concern. But I will not be blocked - _I am adding_ wikipedia to adblock. I also feel regret for having donated to the site before, but this will not happen again. Demonuminon (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 23:25, 23 June 2011 (UTC).
Thomas James BallWhy the hell did you delete his page?
Does his suffering mean nothing to you?
Heartless bitch. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.57.206.141 (talk • contribs)
Hey, Master of Puppets, OBVIOUSLY there is a public interested in keeping this article. Restore your deletion. Look at the massive flood of comments regarding your deletion here: http://www.<linkremoved>.com/2011/06/24/the-organized-silencing-of-a-man-publicly-burned-to-death/ and here http://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/i81rw/the_organized_silencing_of_a_man_publicly_burned/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Romerom (talk • contribs) 20:05, 24 June 2011 (UTC)
- Ball HIT A FOUR-YEAR-OLD CHILD, refused to pay child support, called for insurrection, demanded terrorism and violence as a solution, ultimately killed himself (leaving his children without a father) and damaged public property in the process. Even after all that, his incoherent message has mostly been ignored except by the less discriminating people claiming to speak for "men's rights" who haven't bothered to look into the details of his case. (If you really want to damage your cause, adopt a grown man who hits his own four-year-old child and flakes out on his child support as your poster boy.) --Orange Mike | Talk 20:26, 24 June 2011 (UTC) (proud father who has never hit his child in his lifetime)
Hey, "proud father who never hit his child in his lifetime", not everybody is against disciplining their children by spanking. He said his daughter was licking his hand, and he had told her repeatedly to stop. She didn't, and he smacked her. He didn't punch her, or send her to the hospital, or cause any serious injury. Just enough to have his wife baited into calling the police on him by child protective services. As for child support, he paid his child support until the point where he wasn't able to afford it due to an employment issue. Is that such a crazy thing to have happen? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.211.155.1 (talk) 04:28, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
- Again, while I do sympathize with the family and supporters, I am not taking sides, nor do I have any bias in this situation. I am not a feminist, nor am I a misogynist - I am fair and neutral towards all people, whether they be abusive fathers or abused fathers.
- This deletion was enforced solely in keeping with Wikipedia's long-established policies. Mr. Ball's death, while indeed tragic, was not reported throughout the reliable media enough to show his notability.
- I hope this makes sense to all those saddened by Mr. Ball's passing. Cheers, m.o.p 21:04, 24 June 2011 (UTC)
- I understand that you do not think that Mr. Ball's death is something that qualifies as an event and thus deleted said article. I disagree but I do see the merits of your argument. However, you claim to be unbiased in this debate and yet for someone who judges on the letter of the law you break the law and close debate 2.5 days before final judgment is to be rendered. If you have no corner then I ask why make this article a special case that it must be quelled , by your own admission, 2.5 days before any other articles found in similar circumstances are voted upon. I petition you to reinstate and allow the normal course of the discussion continue for the 2.5 days, allow the full opportunity for the pro side to make their case then recluse yourself from the final judgment. This is the only way to ensure transparency so that your claim of neutrality can be believed. CaffOMHW (talk) 03:28, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
- Ahead of things, let me tell you that I appreciate the civility.
- Wikipedia's policies aren't law - they're guidelines. As an administrator, it's my job to apply policy in a way that is completely devoid of bias and benefits the encyclopedia as a whole.
- On a side note, the deletion nomination was closed 1.5 days before the normal time. The page had a whole work week to be saved, rewritten or reworked; however, due to the lack of outside sourcing that carried reliability, there was nothing to keep that wasn't editorialized or unencyclopedic. I would also like to point out that almost every account that voiced their opinion in the 'keep' spectrum had either only edited that page or had edited very little aside from the page. Meanwhile, the deletion argument was put forward by experienced users.
- Though I understand that some people take offense to my early closure, I assure them that one extra day would not have yielded success, and that I took many factors into consideration before closing the discussion.
- Again, thank you for the civility, but I won't be overturning judgment or recreating a deletion discussion at this date. m.o.p 08:17, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
ITNthx for the 2 quick updates of my nom ;)
but also can you see the bolivia one. its got support and very nearly out of the news. we could tack it nearer the border.Lihaas (talk) 22:26, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
Ball closure.
Thank God you are an ambassador for WP, and against censorship, MoP. When Wikipedia fails, and it eventually will, it will largely be because most people don't like to be gamed and would rather not read well cultivated information that is maintained by dishonest brokers who hide behind rules that are never applied in an even-handed manner. The idea that a story is not relevant merely because it is not yet encyclopedic is ridiculous when one sees all the articles which linger on for months or years in the same state. The idea that a story is not relevant because the motivations/justifications of the user are suspect would be grounds for eliminating half the biographical articles in WP. It smacks of an agenda. The appearance of impropriety is as bad as actual impropriety.173.78.20.96 (talk) 04:51, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
- I appreciate the feedback.
- I do my best to maintain an equal, proportionate response in all dealings on Wikipedia; I don't defend things I like, or attack things I dislike, just for the reason of screwing with people. That strikes me as childish. Instead, the most I can do is try to help others understand Wikipedia policies, which are generally mind-bending and hard to grasp (for example, most people ask, "What's the reasoning a war hero isn't considered notable when Donkey Kong is?").
- Maybe one day the policies will change. I mean, most of these were written five, six year ago - the world's changing, and I expect they will with time. But, for now, the guidelines handle what comes in.
- Again, thanks for the input. I appreciate not being personally attacked - it makes it easier to reply. Cheers, m.o.p 05:08, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Natami (2nd nomination)
- The close was thoroughly thought-out, so there's not much ground for me to explore that I haven't already. If you're set on going to DRV, there's nothing I can say which will change your mind, and it's your right to ask for a review. However, current consensus sits at delete (unless the 'keep' side is hiding an ace-in-the-hole reliable source or something). Cheers, m.o.p 04:55, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- So, what about the reliable sources we already brought up in the AfD such as this interview in Amiga Future or this news article from nr2.ru? We've already established that Amiga Future isn't sponsored by a hardware company as one !voter there falsely claimed. On a related note, did you discount the !votes from individuals making misleading statements or those claiming there were "no independent reliable sources"? (I could tell you how that !voter happened to show up there, but he isn't going to like it.) I could also link to forum posts by another delete !voter who showed up there who was very much into a "delete at any cost" mode because he doesn't like "amiga clones". --Tothwolf (talk) 05:11, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- Those sources were there before the previous close, and I, like the previous administrator, do not think they're strong enough.
- I've already covered what kind of rationale was discounted and what wasn't.
- As for your last statement about other editors - I'm not quite sure what your point is, but I don't think it's relevant. As I said, I've discounted any rationale that does not apply policy.
- Cheers, m.o.p 05:33, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- Uh, no...nr2.ru was only brought up in the second AfD. Strong enough is also an argument to be made in a !vote, not a closing statement. --Tothwolf (talk) 05:56, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- My apologies, the Russian source was indeed added after the first AfD. Still too shaky for a stand-alone article, though. Cheers, m.o.p 13:42, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- To follow up on my earlier comment, while I don't really want to get into an "X did this because of Y" sort of thing with regards to this AfD, there were a number of delete !voters who showed up there for personal reasons/vendettas/bias and/or who made false statements about sources. Despite the template at the top of the AfD, the second AfD also didn't suffer from the forum canvassing that the first did. One of the delete !voters actually came by way of the forum and first AfD and was trolling because of his personal dislike of Amiga clones. --Tothwolf (talk) 15:33, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
If they have valid, policy-based rationale, their personal motivation doesn't matter, solely for the reason that an encyclopedia based on liking or disliking things would crumble instantly. I'm sure some of the deletion crew could just-as-easily blame keep voters for being enthusiasts and fans of Natami - but that's not important. As a result, making allegations of personal bias is unnecessary. The help is appreciated, but there's nothing I can do with the information. m.o.p 15:39, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- It matters when someone makes false statements and tries to hide what they are doing behind policy. As for keeps, quite a number appear to be from well established editors who don't appear to be all that interested in Amiga topics. As for myself, I wasn't even aware of NatAmi until the first AfD and didn't even !vote in the first AfD since I thought it was pretty obvious it was headed for a no-consensus close. --Tothwolf (talk) 15:58, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- Again, if their rationale is grounded in policy, their motivation does not matter, simply because it's impossible to discern someone's intent through text, and because the second someone accuses another of favoritism/malicious intent the entire argument turns into a bunch of people shouting, "You're lying." That's why there's nothing I can do with your information in this case. Cheers, m.o.p 16:02, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- Apologies to you, M.O.P., for addressing another editor on your talk page, but I just wanted to jump in this conversation. Tothwolf, with no prejudice against you at all I strongly suggest you take this in perspective. There have been two AFDs and an ANI report over this article. The way you treated me on my talk page threatening DRV because I was a new administrator was, as I feel it, borderline harassing. That you canvassed two other administrators to talk to me was also a below the belt move. In good faith, I relisted the debate and it has closed again as delete. I strongly suggest taking the advice at WP:DGAF into account here and let the issue go. I don't think there will be a problem recreating this article, even pulling the old content back from the deletion log, when the subject has better sources in a broader community. I hold no ill feeling toward you, this is purely honest advice.--v/r - TP 16:46, 27 June 2011 (UTC)]
- TParis, while you are correct in that this talk page is not the place for this, because you brought this up here and you seem to value honest feedback, I'll address this here.
In no way did I ever threaten you with DRV, let alone because you were a new administrator (discussion in question). I did however upon noticing that you had passed RFA only days earlier decide it best not to press you further in public and instead sent you this short email: "Sigh. I just noticed you just finished your RFA. The Natami AfD was a bad AfD to pick to close right out of the gate. It is likely to end up at DRV and given the magazine I mentioned, overturned. I really wish you would reconsider your close. You might have noticed I didn't even !vote in the AfD itself, however I did point out a number of things and took a couple of people to task for making false or misleading statements." That is the only email I sent you about the matter and not once did I ever threaten you with DRV. Please get your facts correct before making statements such as this because such mistakes can have a negative effect on others.
After you replied expressing your disagreement over the sources (and implied that I might be biased because I sometimes contribute to computing-related articles) I asked a number of other administrators (way more than two, actually) what they thought of the AfD's close because I wanted unbiased feedback to see if I was somehow totally off-track before I initiated a DRV. The feedback I got was fairly unanimous in that the close was problematic. Before I had a chance to draft a DRV however, you reverted your own close and relisted the AfD from scratch with a new listing. In no way did I ever "canvass" anyone to "talk to you" and if others did contact you directly, they did so at their own discretion and for their own reasons.
There indeed have been two AfDs, the first of which you closed (although one could also argue that the second was merely a relist of the first). The AN/I "discussion" you also mentioned wasn't really over this article or the first AfD, it was an attempt by someone to game AN/I when they were unable to bully me on their talk page. Please be more careful making these sort of blanket statements in the future because as I mentioned above such statements can cause problems for others. --Tothwolf (talk) 17:38, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- You're email was exactly like your reply here. You like to make threats without actually making them: "such statements can cause problems". There is very little way your email cannot be interpreted as anything other than a threat of DRV because I am a new administrator. This is all I'll say on M.O.P.'s talk page as I came here to offer honest advice and you don't seem interested in it. If you'd like to discuss further with me, you know where to find my talk page.--v/r - TP 17:51, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- TParis, in no way did I ever make an implied threat. While I may be a little blunt and abrasive at times (or maybe I'm just an assume good faith in that you simply misremembered the facts I outlined above when you made this statement here. It is easy to forget a few details here or there and not everyone maintains detailed notes for this sort of stuff (I do, for a number of reasons, although I didn't always).
As far as honest advice goes, this is a two-way street and I gave you my opinion as well. If you choose to ignore and discount it, so be it, but I'd suggest you be much more careful in the future and get your facts correct before you make the sort of statement you made above. Such statements can and do cause problems for other editors. Who knows, it may just be that you've not been around long enough yet to have witnessed people blocked or punished in some way because someone else didn't have their facts together. (If you do decide you want to continue this discussion, perhaps we should take this elsewhere.) --Tothwolf (talk) 18:14, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
]
Heaton Park Hebrew Congregation (2nd nomination)
Natami
Thought you might want to know
- (talk page stalker) That's just the same little ideological website which has been pushing for the "Martyrdom of St. Thomas Ball" attention since day one; no actual new coverage. --Orange Mike | Talk 14:34, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
- I guess I should also mention that the way I found it, was that someone tried submitting it to Fark.com last night. The admins did not greenlight it, so that particular submission/thread did not go to the main Fark page, appearing only to those with Totalfark accounts. The submission said something like "Wikipedia deletes burning man" (I'm not at a computer with TF access so I might not have that exactly right). It might, theoretically, based on the submission, be considered some sort of off-site canvassing (it was submitted with the asinine tag). For what its worth, the thread went uncommented, so I don't think that particular attempt garnered any support. I just wanted to drop a line in case that this was just the first drop of a large storm. If I see anything else, I'll drop a line here. Umbralcorax (talk) 15:58, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
Wiki ad
4chan raid
Thomas James Bell, new information
- (reliable sources. --Orange Mike | Talk 13:33, 30 June 2011 (UTC)]
Happy Birthday
![](//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3d/Nuvola_apps_cookie.svg/50px-Nuvola_apps_cookie.svg.png)
Just a happy Birthday message to you, Master of Puppets, from the Wikipedia Birthday Committee! Have a great day!
Monterey Bay (talk) 02:00, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
User:BillyMoses
Natami
AFD
- Your input is appreciated, though there's nothing I can do with it but take a note. If you'd like, you can weigh in at the next AfD(s), when/if they arise. Cheers, m.o.p 19:42, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
Dr Myko San – Health from Mushrooms
- I'd be happy to help! However, I'm currently away from a computer (typing this on my phone), so I'll have to check in on the 11th of July. Does that sound okay? m.o.p 15:40, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
- wp:NODEADLINE :-) LeadSongDog come howl! 15:48, 7 July 2011 (UTC)]
From a former Wikipedian
-71.234.90.0 (talk) 04:50, 8 July 2011 (UTC)
- Hey, thanks so much! I'm not sure who you are, but I really appreciate the sentiment. Hope all is well! m.o.p 20:49, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
Deletion review for Thomas James Ball
DRV comment
DRV
Could you please overturn the deletion of these files per File:Signature of Amitabh Bachchan.svg and File:Signature of Zakir Hussain.svg:
- File:Signature of Vishwanathan Anand.svg
- File:Signature of Vijay Mallya.svg
- File:Signature of Venkaiah Naidu.svg
- File:Signature of Sudeep Bandhopadhyay.svg
- File:Signature of Sonia Gandhi.svg
- File:Signature of Somnath Chatterjee.svg
- File:Signature of Ratan Tata.svg
- File:Signature of Kumar Mangalam Birla.svg
- File:Signature of Rajeev Shukla.svg
- File:Signature of Raj Babbar.svg
- File:Signature of Rahul Gandhi.svg
- File:Signature of Priyanka Vadra.svg
- File:Signature of P. T. Usha.svg
- File:Signature of Narendra Modi.svg
- File:Signature of Nandan Nilekani.svg
- File:Signature of Manish Tewari.svg
- File:Signature of Leander Paes.svg
- File:Signature of Lata Mangeshkar.svg
- File:Signature of Kumar Mangalam Birla.svg
- File:Signature of Karia Munda.svg
- File:Signature of Kapil Sibal.svg
- File:Signature of Kamal Nath.svg
- File:Signature of K. Kamraj.svg
- File:Signature of Jaya Bachchan.svg
- File:Signature of Gautam Gambhir.svg
- File:Signature of Brinda Karat.svg
- File:Signature of Bharatsinh Solanki.svg
- File:Signature of Bhairon Singh Shekhawat.svg
- File:Signature of B. K. Birla.svg
- File:Signature of Azim Premji.svg
- File:Signature of Arun Jaitely.svg
- File:Signature of Aishwarya Rai Bachchan.svg
- File:Signature of Abhishek Manu Singhvi.svg
- File:Signature of Abhishek Bachchan.svg
- File:Signature of Sting.svg
- File:Signature of Br. L. D. Lobo.svg
- File:Signature of VJ Rannvijay Singh Singha.svg
Diligent07Appears to be less than new. See User talk:Raoulduke25 where he states that this is a deliberate series of edits.
- Can you please help defend our collective effort of including the obscene middle-finger incident in the Cheney Mason article? It should be maintained in the article for public interest, etc. Please see the Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard#Cheney Mason discussion page and include your thoughts in favor of having the content remain in the interests of the public, etc
[8], [9] and even imputation that an editor has a connection with the person [10]. He has been on since April, and started off as being experienced on WP IMHO. Kindly keep an eye out please. Especially for any sign of a real "collective effort"? Such as [11]? Cheers. Collect (talk) 11:36, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
A cookie for you!
Keep up the good work defending the "Wiki" against genre warriors. Thanks for the help! talk) 17:31, 13 July 2011 (UTC)]
Hello. You have a new message at Lionelt's talk page.
Semi protection
OK, this thing with the militant atheism page is impossibleThese guys are incredible... I could dig up diffs to show you how they revert and wikilawyer even the SMALLEST attempt to move the article closer to NPOV. But that would take a long time for you to read. How about I show you this instead:
These guys are utterly without scruples. Who in their right mind would remove the NPOV dispute tag when heated arguments have been raging for weeks and NO moves whatsoever have been made to fix the article? Oh right, that would be someone in their right mind who is running a propaganda platform.
Anyway... I wanted to ask your advice on what to do. These guys are impossible to work with. Most of the other editors have given up and refuse to put this page on their watchlist. So what to do then? Request formal mediation? Articles for deletion? Something else?
Me and the other editors would like to see the page replaced with a disambiguation page... since literally ALL the content has already been covered (better) in Criticism of atheism, State atheism and New Atheism.
Obhave (talk) 13:21, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
- Hello User:Master of Puppets. I noticed this conversation and thought I might add that an NPOV policy. Obhave (talk) 13:11, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
- One more thing, m.o.p... my opponents are currently twisting your words to make it look as if you were scolding user:Mann_jess all along. Obhave (talk) 14:42, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
]
User:Jasper Deng page protection
- No worries! m.o.p 19:35, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
Is there a procedure for brutal uncollaborated editing with a destructive intent?I noticed that you recently had problems with proposed brutal editing by Peter S Strempel. Although he has been more sensible on your project in the end (possibly because of your administrator status?) he has not been so with regard to the astrology project pages to which he made a similar 'razor-promise'. Could you please see this Afd request which is one of three he made for major 'history of astrology' articles within the last hour, with a promise on another important page that any comment which is not refrences within 7 days will be removed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Babylonian_astrology
Is there anything that can be done about this officially to stop him wreaking havoc with content whilst he knows that the small group of editors providing content on these pages are already stretched to the limit trying to keep up with what needs to be done? I don't understand what drives some people to want to edit WP like this, but I think it is entriely the result of his ego-stress that when he proposed an edit for a passage, no one favoured it. Hope you can help or advise Zac Δ talk 01:15, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks! assume good faith; I believe that Peter is simply trying to help improve Wikipedia. While his methods may be lacking in some areas, he has displayed a pretty decent grasp on the policies he's trying to enforce.
- However, I agree that he shouldn't be making any changes if they're not discussed with the community first. Do you mind pulling up a few diffs of where he went against consensus? I'll approach him with your concern then. Thanks, m.o.p 03:57, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
- Actually there hasn't been any significant content dispute with Peter. He proposed a change to a section edit which wasn't a very good proposition and a few editors commented but without rancur, and I added a new section post immediately afterwards to point out the proiposed change would contradict with how the definition was given correctly at a later point in the article, outlining how I understood WP policy expected the main astrology article to pull its own content together, along with its summarised content from its daughter pages. Peter never responded to this but other editors started working in that direction immediately. Then, without further discussion or comment, Peter came back four days later to announce an intention to take his 'word razor' to all unreferenced assertions on the main astrology page, its sub-pages, and the portal page itself, to ensure his perceived disagreement was not circumvented in pages he viewed as content forks (I'm still not sure what he means by that). My response to that can be seen - a perfectly reasonable request for him to do what he felt was most productive, but consider that citation-tagging was the way to go. I also placed comments on his talk-page, which you can read if you are interested. That he erupted into a frenzy of AfD requests last night says something, I think, about his unwillingness to discuss and engage in other views. Most of his posts appear as new section declarations that don't appear to have considered the responses other editors give him.
- I've summarised this in the ANI request Dougweller started. The deletion requests were a step too far IMO, and I'm concerned that Peter would spring to such drastic measures in reaction to what he perceives to be me not allowing him to do what he wants to do. I'll be away for a few days so I'm tying up my WP activity now. That underlines my concern that he intends to take such drastic action with only one week's notice of intent. Thanks for looking into this. It would be good if something could be proposed to stop huge problems before they occur. 10:35, 22 July 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zachariel (talk • contribs
)
- One last request. I have just noticed that a related complaint, which is quite serious but has been sidetracked (deliberatly IMO) by Peter's suggestions that I have prevented him from doing what he wants, has been collapsed as "going nowehere" by an unsympathetic editor.
- "Its ben here several days and no admin has even sniffed at a block or ban - clearly you're not going to get admin action. So this should got to WP:DR or WP:RFCU if you want to take it further. I've boldly collapsed this, though I won't be surprised if someone uncollapses it"
- If you can find the time could you at least take a look at that related problem, and consider uncollapsing it, because the issues are serious and have gone beyond the point where Dispute resolution are appropriate. I will be away and have nothing more to add, but the problems identified still remain. Zac Δ talk 10:58, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
What to do?
- I've started a threat at ANI. Those AfDs are purely pointy and if no one objects I'll close them. talk) 06:11, 22 July 2011 (UTC)]
- Replied there. m.o.p 08:20, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
Talk Page on Militant Atheism - Introduction Section
- The update is appreciated, thanks very much. I've been dealing with life for the past two weeks, but I'll be back to close that discussion tonight or tomorrow. Thanks again, m.o.p 22:03, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
- Just bringing this up again, given the current state of this section. I believe the discussion will be archived automatically if not closed. I'm sorry if I sound pushy with you having a lot on your plate of late. If you would prefer, I could alert User:Fastily instead. Turnsalso (talk) 16:55, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
ITN
- I knew that tab I closed had unfinished business on it... thanks. 2008 University of Central Arkansas shootings is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.
The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2008 University of Central Arkansas shootings(2nd nomination) until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on good quality evidence, and our policies and guidelines.
Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article.
talk 14:00, 1 September 2011 (UTC)]
Hey
- Done! Both your userpage and the transcluded page are protected. Cheers, « ₣M₣ » 04:09, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Restored. m.o.p 05:21, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
]
User talk:Joshua the Independent
- My mistake - my block script auto-filled the edit summary. The block was issued due to the user's newfound will to disrupt Wikipedia intentionally. Their previous contributions are welcome, but this behaviour necessitates administrative action. m.o.p 21:52, 13 September 2011 (UTC)
Say hi to your imaginary girlfriend for me
- Well, I do love getting hate mail. Thanks for the laugh! Cheers, m.o.p 05:17, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
...further to the above lovely note, I weighed in on Calabe's talk page - there appears to be more confusion here than at first glance. bou·le·var·dier (talk) 05:19, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
Sorry to drop by again, but Silentsizzlingsausage (talk · contribs) would appear to be a duck. bou·le·var·dier (talk) 05:31, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
- No, it's not an issue! Thanks for the note, blocked. Cheers, WP:SPI. Thanks again, m.o.p 06:13, 14 September 2011 (UTC)]
I have to admit ...
- See the above section. The link is apparently a very subtle spam link that Calabe is removing, and socks are springing up to revert him. Swarm u / t 10:20, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
Moderation
- Alright, I'll make my way back. Thanks for letting me know! m.o.p 05:18, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
User:12.139.96.228
- To be honest, this case is perplexing. Half of this user's edits are constructive (mostly sourced), the other half aren't sourced - and the user won't reply to anybody. I'm also too busy to go through every edit and confirm whether or not it's good. I forgot about this for a while - I'll think about it tonight and figure something out for tomorrow. Thanks for reminding me! m.o.p 05:18, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
Whoops
- Whoops! Must not have been looking when I ran my block script. Thanks for letting me know, I've reblocked them for a far shorter (technically, an infinitely shorter) time. Cheers, m.o.p 22:58, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
Ashleyleggat404
- You're fully right in that the blanking policy covers indefinite blocks. I've removed the user's talk page rights as a result. Thanks again! m.o.p 00:28, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkback
Moderation
- If you look into this please consider whether Anupam's actions on the talk page and the entry itself are violations of WP:OWN. He's been driving off those he disagrees with by bludgening them to death with argument and heavily policing the entry claiming that there is a consensus written in stone despite many dissenting voices. Others have taken to simply calling him "the article's owner." I have had enough of this behavior personally and left him a message about it on his talk page. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:52, 20 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Dear User:Master of Puppets, the above user has misrepresented the occurrences at the article. I started another Introduction discussion at the article's talk page but User:Griswaldo has chosen to edit war over a second NPOV tag, despite the fact that one already exists in the article. He has done so despite the fact that the Introduction is being discussed in a peaceful manner at the talk page, in violation of your injunction: "We've only got consensus on this proposed versions (and loose consensus at that) - please do not attempt to subvert said consensus by making undiscussed changes." I have posted a message on his talk page about this behaviour. Nevertheless, I also do not wish to argue with the user personally and would prefer if you could go back to moderating the discussion between the two parties at the talk page. Thanks for taking the time to read this message. With regards, AnupamTalk 20:58, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- His "injunction?" Adding a neutrality tag to a specific sentence which an editor disputes the neutrality of is hardly "subverting the consensus by making undiscussed changes." Please stop wikilawyering to get your way. There is a growing consensus against your position regarding this article in general as well, despite your aggressive policing of the entry and the talk page. See ]
- I just thought that I would mention that User:Griswaldo, after seeing this message, just now decided to comment in the discussion rather than edit war against consensus further. Thanks for taking the time to read this message. With regards, AnupamTalk 21:51, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- "Edit war against consensus further?" My comment there has nothing to do with your message here. I've made three total edits to this entry ever. One was a copy edit in June, another was reverting an IP vandal, and the third was the revert of your Ownership edit. Please do not insinuate that I'm a edit warrior on this page. It is disingenuous.Griswaldo (talk) 22:08, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Thank you all for approaching me with your concerns.
- Obviously, I do not support Anupam - this is because I'm remaining a neutral third party, and, therefore, can't take sides. However, Griswaldo: please keep in mind that I did ask for all discussion to take place on the talk page. Why not just add your complaints to the talk page? It would have been much easier to discuss.
- I do agree that adding a NPOV tag, while slightly redundant, isn't horrible, but your intent seems to have been to stir discussion on that particular section, discussion that would be much more appropriate on the talk page.
- As for your and Snalwibma's concerns of Anupam trying to 'own' the article, I'm curious as to what you two mean; what 'delusions'?
- Also, Griswaldo, I don't think Anupam meant to insinuate you are an edit warrior (though this is just my take) - rather, they wanted to add the note that you've weighed in on discussion. m.o.p 22:10, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- your intent seems to have been to stir discussion on that particular section - No that's incorrect. I didn't add this tag, I simply reverted Anupam's attempt to own the page when he removed it. I agreed with JimWae's addition of the tag and found Anupam's removal to be unwarranted and a display of ownership.Griswaldo (talk) 22:16, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Note that, for all intents and purposes, reverting somebody is adding whatever is included in your edit, regardless of who put it there first. You revert a removal, you're agreeing with the edition you're reverting to - simple.
- And, if you agreed with JimWae, then we go back to what I was saying earlier - say so on the talk page. Two of you agree? Great! That's closer to consensus. But it means nothing if you express your support by reverting removals.
- Again, as I've asked multiple times, please stop saying that Anupam is owning anything without giving me evidence of it first. m.o.p 22:22, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Dear User:Master of Puppets, thank you for your reply to all of us. The reason User:Snalwibma stated that I was attempting to "own" the article was because I reverted an undiscussed removal from the article, which not only myself, but two other users objected to. In fact, two anonymous IP Addresses also reverted User:Snalwibma. I was open to compromise on the issue and stated that I would accept User:Turnsalso's compromise on the issue. I kindly request you to look at that discussion yourself and get an honest reading of it. Also, the only reason I removed the second NPOV tag was because there was already one present, which I did not remove. I only reverted the addition of a second NPOV tag once and even explained myself on the talk page. When I went to the talk page, I found rude accusations and an anti-collaborative spirit, despite the fact that I have been nothing but polite. I hope this helps. With regards, AnupamTalk 22:25, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry - I know I should not rise to the bait, but I have to object to the comment "The reason User:Snalwibma stated that I was attempting to 'own' the article was because I reverted an undiscussed removal ..." How dare Anupam presume to know what is in my mind! The reason I describe Anupam's attitude to the article as one of ownership is because that is how s/he behaves - "policing" every edit, pronouncing on whether s/he "accepts" or "rejects" it, peremptorily reverting anything s/he does not like, without discussion, presuming to know others' motives, and judging them as fit/unfit to contribute to the article. This has been going on for weeks, if not months. It is impossible to discuss the content of the article, let alone improve the text, because everything is filtered through the approval/disapproval of the article's self-appointed guardian, Anupam. tendentious or disruptive when they bring up certain issues, even when they are clearly in the majority. That is not collaborative. I stopped editing the article heavily because of those issues. I don't have any delusions that my opinion is worth more than anyone else's here, but I would think that the large number of established, experienced editors who are all saying there's a problem, would indicate something. — Jess· Δ♥ 19:45, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
Please reconsider your full protection of Militant atheist
- In case you didn't notice, I asked that people think twice about pointing fingers at each other. If you'd like to start a sockpuppetry investigation, let me know, and we can take that avenue - however, don't accuse other editors of ownership without substance. If you think Anupam is trying to own things, give me something. Diffs, edits, anything. I'll check it out for you, but right now, baseless accusations are not what I'm looking for.
- Also, notice that I protected the article with your edit being the last one. How is that validating the very person you've been reverting?
- The protection will stay until consensus is reached. m.o.p 22:19, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Because protection is what he wants quite clearly. He's stalling conversation and shouting down people on the talk page, where, if you have a look, you'll see he's clearly in the minority. Because of your "injunction" as he calls it, he also claims that no matter how many people agree with a certain change it is illegitimate. I'll be happy to gather some diffs, but my first message to you above was to please look into the situation carefully before acting on it. Did you do that and come to the conclusion that I'm wrong or did you not head that request? Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:29, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Yes, I did heed your request. I don't see any ownership behaviour from Anupam, though, being involved in multiple disputes, I didn't have the time to read every last word on the page, so you're free to provide evidence. However, from what I can see, Anupam's last proposal was supported by the majority - not to count (and I don't mean to imply that I decide where consensus lies by looking at pure numbers), but from looking at pure supports versus opposes, eight people (nine including Anupam) support while four oppose. How does that make Anupam's views a minority? m.o.p 22:37, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- It depends on what view you are talking about. The current RFC on the introduction is something that most people don't even want to engage because most people think this very entry should be split up and integrated into other entries. I reluctantly engaged the RfC just now myself. The last time the more serious question about the entry was asked, several of the new commentators were not around, and there was "no consensus" found because the opposing side was chalk full of SPAs and editors with a view that is outright hostile to atheism (which is a legitimate view to hold, but it is a minority view). Let me find you some diffs.Griswaldo (talk) 22:43, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- User:Griswaldo, that is exactly the issue: you do not want to collaborate with other users on the talk page, which is why you were reluctant to participate in the current RfC. Moreover, there were several SPA's on the side of the opposition as well, including WP:NPOV. In addition, the split was again recently discussed and the specific case to do so was refuted by several editors. As such, there was no consensus for it. I hope this helps. With regards, AnupamTalk 22:52, 20 September 2011 (UTC)]
- No. You are trying to write an article that violates WP:SYNTH because it conflates New Atheism with oppressive communist regimes and their histories of violence. That's hardly NPOV. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:59, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
Hi m.o.p., as someone who occasionally looks at that page (and then washes my hands), I just want to compliment you as having done the right thing in full protecting. By way of unsolicited advice to the involved editors, the best thing they could do is to allow The Wrong Version to sit there a good long time, and devote their energy to other things. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:54, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
]
Yes, please reconsider your full protection of
WP:RS—deserve protection against misinformed reverts. Thanks Geremia (talk) 16:12, 22 September 2011 (UTC)]
Diffs of
- I'm not really sure where the ownership is here; nowhere in our policies is it stated that a user can't promote their RFC on the subject talk page. If it's ongoing and they'd like to move it to the forefront, what's wrong with that? More so, some of your summaries seem inaccurate - in that last diff, you state that Anupam is removing images, yet I only see Anupam adding an image (the peace dove that's at the top of the page). Also, you use repeating examples. m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Well clearly the last diff was wrong. Thanks for the vote of confidence. There are no repeat examples nor inaccurate summaries, just a mistaken copy paste of the second to last diff to the last position as well. I have fixed it. Cheers.
- Using "consensus claims from one RfC to reject changes made to article content
- Same as above. Using the "consensus" bludgeon to get his way. Please note that clearly we ought to edit by consensus, but this consensus is highly disputed, and IMO not there in the first place. The real problem is the way in which Anupam decides to use it like a trump card to remove changes he doesn't like. Ask yourself if all changes post "consensus" have been removed or just the ones Anupam decided he wanted removed.
Master of Puppets do you need more diffs or is this enough?Griswaldo (talk) 23:31, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Well I need more diffs because your "evidence" so far looks like a desperate attempt to incriminate an editor who has been very successful in persuading his colleagues to adopt his proposals. Anupam has presented his proposals, argued the merits and persuaded many editors. Anything you want to tell us about why you're having difficulty doing likewise? – Lionel (talk) 06:02, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- I don't see this is as conclusive evidence, either. And, it should be said - if people are editing against established consensus, then people are free to re-evaluate consensus, but edit-warring against it doesn't make much sense. m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- If not ownership then what is this - [28], [29], [30]? He removes two RfCs started by another editor, and revolving around the question that many of us actually find to be the fundamental question to answer regarding the entry. Then he edit wars to keep these RfCs off the page, claiming again to have some sort of authority stemming from your prior actions. If you aren't willing to do something here I'm going to another administrator and I'm going to ask for your initial "consensus," your strong arm administrating, and your lack of action here to be reviewed as well. Thanks.Griswaldo (talk) 17:08, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Anupam has already apologized for reverting those RfC additions, and we've moved past it. He also didn't claim to have administrative authority, but was waiting for my approval. We've cleared this up, it's not an issue. So no, I'm not going to take any action (as I've said here and on ANI). Now, if you'd like to threaten me and tell me that, since I'm not cooperating with your wills, you'll go to another administrator, that's fine - as I've said, you can seek outside opinions - but remember to keep a cool head, because borderline threats are not appreciated. m.o.p 21:49, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- It was not a threat, "borderline" or otherwise. You are conveniently ignoring a growing number of voices who are all saying the same thing - there is an ownership problem here. The deletion issue has not been "cleared up" as far as I'm concerned. Whenever it is mentioned Anupam insists that he did not "unilaterally" delete the RfCs from the page, which is a blatant distortion, since that is exactly what he did. He continues to act as a policeman at the page, and yes he does continue to cite your authority. Did you bother to read the many diffs I posted above in the second two sections? I will quote three random examples from those I provided for you if you want.
- When he first deleted the two RfCs he wrote: "rv - see discussion with reviewing administrator; approval needed to start another RfC while one is already occurring."
- When he deleted a fact tag that JimWae put into the lede: "rv excessive tagging per talk; tag is already extant in header; do not subvert previous consensus but gain consensus for potential additions per administrative notice"
- When he rejected another recent change to the entry: "accepted edits by User:Jkhwiki; rv removal of longstanding referenced content - see discussion on talk page and gain consensus for action per administrative injunction"
- In talk page comments and in edit summaries he consistently does the same thing. He refers to your authority, either directly or indirectly through your "notice" or your "injunction" as he likes to call it. I never said the claimed to have administrative authority, I said that he's using your authority, by way of your comments, such as the closure of the AfD to bully people. Do you deny that he citing your comments, because if you do then I must have fabricated those quotes. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:32, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
If you say "If you don't do A, then I'm going to go and do B", that's a threat. Anyway, that's not the issue - we've already covered all the issues with the RfC reverting, and Anupam won't do it again. Why keep raising hell over it?
We've already covered everything you bring up. And no, I'm not denying anything. I'm just saying this, and it's very simple: I don't think there has been any blatant ownership here. That's my judgment. If you disagree, again, feel free to raise this with another administrator or on ANI. m.o.p 23:12, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Regarding the new RFC, I still think there has not passed yet too much time since the last discussion about splitting the article. As far as I knew, repeating these sorts of debates (like splitting, deleting, renaming) before a larger amount of time has passed (like 6 months) is usually discouraged. And as others have also argued earlier, even if having multiple RFCs is possible, it's not very useful, and the new RFC seems to discourage further discussion about improving the lead introduction. So preventing multiple RFCs (and also a RFC about an issue debated not too long ago) does not look to me like evidence of bad faith intentions. Cody7777777 (talk) 21:37, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Cody, would you mind linking me to the previous RfC on splitting? m.o.p 21:49, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- The previous attempt to split the article can be found here. Cody7777777 (talk) 21:55, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Response
Yes, it does. Thanks, m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Dear User:Master of Puppets, I just noticed that User:Binksternet started another RfC while a current one is occurring. Is this appropriate? I reverted the addition motioning for one until your response is confirmed. If it is acceptable, then I apologize and will revert my edit. I look forward to your response. With regards, AnupamTalk 15:14, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'll form my reply on ANI. m.o.p 17:12, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- When you do please take into account my comment just above, regarding Anupam's edit warring to remove talk page comments (namely these RfCs) posted by others on the talk page. If you still don't think this is WP:OWN then clearly other administrators are needed here.Griswaldo (talk) 17:15, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Dear User:Griswaldo, how is going to a neutral mediator to address the issue owning the article? I acknowledge that the article is in dispute and as a result, I am asking an administrator for advice in this matter, NOT handling things on my own, as you have done by edit warring. Your WP:OWN allegations have not only been dismissed by this administrator, but by several other users, including, User:Lionelt, User:Cody7777777 and User:NYyankees51. Thanks, AnupamTalk 17:27, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- In reply to Griswaldo: reverting the RfCs was a mistake, but we've cleared that up now. As Anupam has stated at ANI, the intent was not to discourage discussion. If you think my judgment is compromised, you're welcome to seek another administrator's input. m.o.p 21:04, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- And as further evidence of WP:OWN, see this. Anupam adds a comment to everything that anyone else says, as if he/she is the owner of the article and everyone else is a subordinate contributor. This particular instance is pretty benign (although it clutters up the talk page with an unnecessary comment that merely says "I agree"), but I do think that Anupam at least needs to learn how to avoid giving the appearance of thinking he/she owns the article, and to desist from chipping in and saying the same thing over and over again, which almost makes meaningful discussion impossible! SNALWIBMA ( talk - contribs ) 17:31, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- While the input is appreciated, as I've said before, making allegations of ownership without hard evidence isn't going to get us anywhere. Anupam is not stopping others from discussing changes or forming consensus, and that's all that matters - refactoring the talk page or commenting on an issue is not against policy, and I'm not going to tell someone to stop editing because it "looks" like they're doing something wrong. As said above, you're welcome to request another administrator's insight if you wish. m.o.p 21:04, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
COIHi
you've helped me out before, with a conflict of interest problem, so having much more experience than me on wikipedia, I thought I would be bold enough to ask again for help.
Similar problem to last, User_talk:Hobbycraft is editing the HOBBYCRAFT article and making changes that aren't citably right. I think the user name suggest and history suggests a conflict of interest case.
Can you please, speak to them addressing this issue.
Thank you very much for your help.
Markcoulter50 (talk) 22:27, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
- I've blocked that user for username violations. Thanks a lot for letting me know! Keep up the great work, m.o.p 23:00, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkbackcausa sui (talk) 18:47, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Hello. You have a new message at causa sui's talk page. causa sui (talk) 20:54, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Problematic editing on militant atheism
- I hope it's not considered defamatory to repeat the final line: "I merely present the diffs above, and let others draw their own conclusions. Is this a duck? Does it quack? You decide.". Unfortunately, the concerned community no longer has that opportunity. What did you decide on their behalf? Does this duck quack, or not? bobrayner (talk) 15:42, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- It's not your wording, it's the very idea of it. Going to what's allegorically a public place and shouting, "Hey, everybody, this man is a criminal!" is one step below blatantly forming a lynch mob. As I've said, I have no problem with your wording or evidence, just your location of choice. Wikipedia is not, unfortunately, a democracy - letting others draw their conclusions and voice their opinions is not how a sockpuppet investigation works.
- So yes, please don't go restoring any of that section. We're not discussing editors, we're discussing the content they produce. Anything else has a sub-board to deal with it (like WP:SPI).
- Hopefully that clears things up! I'll be happy to answer any more questions should you have them. Cheers, m.o.p 15:48, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Hello User:Bobrayner, I noticed the section you created on the militant atheism talk page. If you do feel the way you do about User:Turnsalso and the anonymous IP Addresses, you can take this up with WP:SPI. Thanks, AnupamTalk 15:52, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
Are you kidding my MoP? Above your write: Going to what's allegorically a public place and shouting, "Hey, everybody, this man is a criminal!" is one step below blatantly forming a lynch mob. AND We're not discussing editors, we're discussing the content they produce. Yet you call this edit by Lionelt "good faith," at WQA? MoP, I would not ask you to agree with me or to like me, but can I please ask you not to insult me with these double standards.Griswaldo (talk) 16:18, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
]
- Griswaldo, I mean no offense when I say this, but I'd appreciate it if you stayed out of discussions which didn't involve you. Also, please don't put words in my mouth. Thanks, m.o.p 16:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I have not put words in your mouth. You said that you would assume good faith about Lionel. If you "assume good faith" it means you assume his edits were in "good faith." If you did not intend that meaning I suggest you reconsider what you wrote. Also, if you want me to "stay out of discussion which don't involve me" then I suggest your first order of business should be to do the same thing yourself. You decided to post at WQA, when there was no mention of you or anything you've done in that thread. Once again, I expect people not to practice double standards. So as long as you cannot show me that you will treat me as you ask to be treated yourself, I will not oblige you. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:21, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Please stop bickering. I'm not quite sure what you're trying to accomplish here. I've already explained what I meant when I said assuming good faith, but I'll explain again: I assumed that Lionelt was not hounding or deliberately haranguing you. I did not say, at any point, that his edit content was good faith, and I've told him not to edit like that again. So please stop accusing me of saying things I haven't said.
- Also, I posted in WQA because, as a mediator in this case and as an administrator, it's my duty to weigh in on administrative noticeboards, especially when the case is an ongoing discussion I've been participating in for three months. It is not your duty to weigh in on discussions on my talk page that don't concern you. I hope the distinction is clear here. m.o.p 20:33, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I think you are confused about something. Content is never good faith. "Editing in good faith" and "good faith edits" refers to the intent of the editor always. It has nothing to do with content. My assumption that you also felt the edits were appropriate comes from the fact that you did not say they weren't appropriate and clearly feel that his intentions were good. If you'd like to set the record straight on that issue you still can. I've asked you twice now to discuss the actual edits that are the focal point of the thread. Also, I moved the thread to ANI, per the suggestion of the editor who marked it "resolved."Griswaldo (talk) 20:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- See Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#User:Lionelt_--_following_my_past_edits_to_drum_up_support_against_me. FYI, I copy pasted the entire discussion because both you and Collect were critical of my initial post and I thought it was the right thing to do to preserve that criticism in the record of the conversation. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:43, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- In reply to your first paragraph: I'm going to give up now, as it seems you're misunderstanding most of what I type, but you're the one who stated that the content was not good faith (as you said, not appropriate), and I agreed - I referred to his intent in replying to you, and said that I assumed good faith in his motives, not his replies. I can't really say that in a clearer way, so my apologies if it's hard to understand. Also, as I've already said, I've left a message for Lionelt about his edits, so clearly I do not feel they're appropriate. m.o.p 20:57, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I, too, find these double standards vexing.
- Which diff is defamatory?
- I had hitherto thought that people on the article talkpage might like to be aware of potential problems with votestacking on the article talkpage (and 3rr evasion, of course). Would it be permitted to add a link to that list of diffs when it's in a different place, or would you consider that defamatory too? bobrayner (talk) 16:23, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- As I said, the information is not defamatory, but the way it's presented is - we have specific processes available to pursue should one feel there are sockpuppets about. However, calling someone out with the intent of informing the community is overstepping your authority and damaging to the accused's character. Also, there's no way a community discussion about whether or not one editor is a sockpuppet can end in anything other than a sockpuppet investigation anyway.
- So, in closing, please don't bring issues like this to the talk page. If you're concerned about votestacking, take it to the appropriate venue - if your concerns are validated, we'll take measures against said puppets. Cheers, m.o.p 16:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I am very disappointed that it's no longer permissible to raise problems with article-editing on the article talkpage. Previous concerns about sockpuppetry were simply ignored; the difference this time is that it's backed by lots of diffs.
- I'm fairly confident that the people concerned have sufficient technical nous to make checkuser draw a blank. And, let's be entirely honest, within minutes of me creating an SPI, an admin of the right persuasion will be getting an email suggesting that an SPI needs their attention. And SPI does not see offsite coordination by a facebook group &c. Finally, any null result at SPI will be used at the article in much the same way as previous administrative decisions have been. So, I do not believe that an SPI will improve either the article, or the encyclopædia as a whole. bobrayner (talk) 17:08, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- If you don't think the pre-existing methods set in place for situations like this are sufficient, you can always raise that concern at the village pump or suggest a policy revision - however, SPI is the venue for these requests, and the only venue. The talk page can not substitute. m.o.p 17:10, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
76.228.226.122Thank you for blocking the anonymous user, who is being counterproductive and rude. (although I think the block should have been one week, but I guess ok at least)
Can you also please try to hide the edit summaries of these edits if possible?
This and
this
Thanks and regards, talk 05:04, 26 September 2011 (UTC)]
- I'll extend the block if this behaviour continues after the block period is over.
- As for the edit summaries, those don't warrant hiding - I apologize for their content, but they don't meet the criteria of what I should remove. It's best just to ignore them for now. Cheers, m.o.p 05:13, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
- Okay, good to know, if I did nothing wrong, no permanent block will be enforced. The IP does not volunteer on WP as an admin and so the disproportionately out of line comments and threats of his should be ignored. --talk 05:19, 26 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Sounds good. We only hide extremely offensive revisions; milder ones stay in the edit history. Thanks again for bringing this to our attention! Cheers, m.o.p 05:31, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
Email
Jasper Deng (talk) 05:29, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
- Reading. talk) 06:00, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Bad Girls Club
- I've blocked Junebea for 2 days for disregarding warnings. m.o.p 20:30, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks for helping :) Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 21:06, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkback
- And again.Griswaldo (talk) 04:24, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
- And again ... but maybe the last. You can settle this question once and for all. See the talk page.Griswaldo (talk) 06:09, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'm sure I'm not alone in wanting to hear your replies to the last responses posed to you at that page. IMO, I don't know why you went down the road you did, but as far as I can tell you're blatantly misrepesenting facts about your own actions when people are brining concerns to you. You might think that since you closed the RfC the matter is settled, but it is not. You're actions have not made my life any more pleasant in the last few days vis-a-vis trying to deal with Anupam's disruption and I think you owe us all answers. So please revisit this thread and deal with the open questions. Thanks.Griswaldo (talk) 02:19, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
- I invite you to stop asking the same question again and again. This would be appreciated. Thanks, m.o.p 02:33, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Block question
- No, I just block obviously bad-faith accounts on sight. Advertising/spam accounts fall under that category. m.o.p 00:37, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Thanks
- Thank you. I've unlocked the article for whatever may come. If I'm needed again, feel free to let me know. Thanks for the kind words again, m.o.p 05:12, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
reminder
- We're still waiting to see if the user understands COI policy (per Ed's question). I'll prod the user and see if they'll answer. talk) 19:20, 30 September 2011 (UTC)]
Nextel logo deleted
- Mmm, good point. What's the link to the logo in question? m.o.p 01:33, 2 October 2011 (UTC)
Support of Sage City SymphonyYou deleted this page before I had a chance to go back in and add the stuff that you wanted to see, including the links within Wikipedia to important composers such as Lou Callabro (who started this orchestra and cites it in his Wikipedia page) and Susan Hurley whose work we premiered (SC is also mentioned in her Wikipedia entry). (Let alone links about the works we have performed.) And we have a web site at www.sagecitysymphony.org, have existed for over 35 yrs and are a significant cultural resource in the Bennington area such that we receive grants from local, statewide and national foundations.
I broke my wrist last weekend and am doing one-handed pecking so it'll take me a few days to get that loaded in. We are going out for a bit now, but I would appreciate your undeleting the page so that I don't have to re-invent the starting part when I go back in tomorrow to add links. Or delete it entirely so that I can start fresh - at this point either would work as long as I can start some serious work on it tomorrow. I am the webmaster by the way, so I do have access to content and more links.
Thank you, Celia Murray — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.228.127.119 (talk) 14:22, 1 October 2011 (UTC)
- It looks like fixed everything up. Best of luck, m.o.p 01:35, 2 October 2011 (UTC)]
Reply on Deterence's talk page
MA
After the beating you took you deserve a cold one--on me! Thanks for being fair and balanced – Lionel (talk) 03:55, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
- Hey, thanks! Glad to help out. :) m.o.p 03:56, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
Deletion of Mau5trap Recordings
--neocharles (talk) 07:33, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Existence does not equal notability - the subject has to be notable to get a Wikipedia page. m.o.p 12:05, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
Questoin re: AIV
- Addendum, actually, I read it very clearly in WP:VANDNOT: "Uploading or using material on Wikipedia in violation of Wikipedia's copyright policies is prohibited, but is not vandalism unless the user does so maliciously or fails to heed warnings." So if a person fails to heed warnings it is vandalism. My mistake here was that I only warned once. --Muhandes (talk) 12:29, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Eh, technically it is vandalism, but the user seems to be trying to improve the Wikipedia - that desire to help is misplaced in this case, as they seem to think that using copyrighted content is actually better. Weird. For most cases, yes, you should report copyvio to AIV - as long as they've been warned sufficiently. m.o.p 12:42, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- OK, he now did it again and the time stamp is after your last warning. Is it vandalism now? --Muhandes (talk) 12:32, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Yeah, if they're outright ignoring warnings. I've blocked for three days. m.o.p 12:40, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
Classmusic
- Oh, I know. But if somebody's lied to my face about using another account - and to other editors working on the article - I'm not about to let them go without a repercussion or two. I'd like Almost-instinct and Voceditnore to look over the article and fix up anything shifty. Also, I'd like Classmusic to respond to my warning, instead of blanking it and ignoring like they have to the above-named editors.
- So, in short, I know that COI doesn't bar editing, but it's enough of a concern that, given the user's recent behaviour, I'll stop them from doing anything until we've figured things out. This isn't too rouge-y, is it? I didn't hear that. Perhaps he is unaware of the sockpuppet investigation findings. Anyhow it seems that DeltaQuad has also blocked the Classmusic account. I left a note on his page about using the unblock template, but re-iterated that he needs to read the COI and Autobiography guidelines and stick to them scrupulously, if he gets unblocked. In the Opera and Classical Music WikiProjects, we get a lot of articles for performers, ensembles, etc. created by their agents and PR people, and often themselves. In my experience, the best I can hope for after one of these tussles is that they'll edit their article according to the guidelines in future. I have yet to find a single one who has ever contributed anything else to Wikipedia. Their only interest in the project is as a PR tool. Having said that, at least it results (after much red-pencilling from other editors) in one new article on a notable subject that we didn't have before and in a small way redresses the pop culture systemic bias here. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 13:40, 5 October 2011 (UTC)]
Danish election
- Never mind, it's been pulled by another admin. All the best, Jenks24 (talk) 11:03, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry about that! I was busy all day and didn't get your message until now. Thanks for letting me know, though! Cheers, m.o.p 19:51, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
3RRHey there! :)
Well WP:CRYSTAL has wined down, however, there's currently a
The Bad Girls Club (season 7). I have notified the two users [32], [33]. The evidence can be found here. They are having an edit-conflict on how the "Duration of cast" should be presented. Since there's no rules regarding anything like that, and it was made up about a year ago, I couldn't warned them to stop their e/c with anything except the 3RR rule. Maybe they need an admin to tell them to stop, so that's why I came to you :) Thanks, Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 01:17, 6 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Temporary page protection requested. Calabe1992 (talk) 01:29, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
Thomas James BallWhy the hell did you delete his page? Does his suffering mean nothing to you?
Heartless bitch. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.57.206.141 (talk • contribs)
Hey, Master of Puppets, OBVIOUSLY there is a public interested in keeping this article. Restore your deletion. Look at the massive flood of comments regarding your deletion here: http://www.<linkremoved>.com/2011/06/24/the-organized-silencing-of-a-man-publicly-burned-to-death/ and here http://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/i81rw/the_organized_silencing_of_a_man_publicly_burned/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Romerom (talk • contribs) 20:05, 24 June 2011 (UTC)
- Ball HIT A FOUR-YEAR-OLD CHILD, refused to pay child support, called for insurrection, demanded terrorism and violence as a solution, ultimately killed himself (leaving his children without a father) and damaged public property in the process. Even after all that, his incoherent message has mostly been ignored except by the less discriminating people claiming to speak for "men's rights" who haven't bothered to look into the details of his case. (If you really want to damage your cause, adopt a grown man who hits his own four-year-old child and flakes out on his child support as your poster boy.) --Orange Mike | Talk 20:26, 24 June 2011 (UTC) (proud father who has never hit his child in his lifetime)
Hey, "proud father who never hit his child in his lifetime", not everybody is against disciplining their children by spanking. He said his daughter was licking his hand, and he had told her repeatedly to stop. She didn't, and he smacked her. He didn't punch her, or send her to the hospital, or cause any serious injury. Just enough to have his wife baited into calling the police on him by child protective services. As for child support, he paid his child support until the point where he wasn't able to afford it due to an employment issue. Is that such a crazy thing to have happen? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.211.155.1 (talk) 04:28, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
- Again, while I do sympathize with the family and supporters, I am not taking sides, nor do I have any bias in this situation. I am not a feminist, nor am I a misogynist - I am fair and neutral towards all people, whether they be abusive fathers or abused fathers.
- This deletion was enforced solely in keeping with Wikipedia's long-established policies. Mr. Ball's death, while indeed tragic, was not reported throughout the reliable media enough to show his notability.
- I hope this makes sense to all those saddened by Mr. Ball's passing. Cheers, m.o.p 21:04, 24 June 2011 (UTC)
- I understand that you do not think that Mr. Ball's death is something that qualifies as an event and thus deleted said article. I disagree but I do see the merits of your argument. However, you claim to be unbiased in this debate and yet for someone who judges on the letter of the law you break the law and close debate 2.5 days before final judgment is to be rendered. If you have no corner then I ask why make this article a special case that it must be quelled , by your own admission, 2.5 days before any other articles found in similar circumstances are voted upon. I petition you to reinstate and allow the normal course of the discussion continue for the 2.5 days, allow the full opportunity for the pro side to make their case then recluse yourself from the final judgment. This is the only way to ensure transparency so that your claim of neutrality can be believed. CaffOMHW (talk) 03:28, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
- Ahead of things, let me tell you that I appreciate the civility.
- Wikipedia's policies aren't law - they're guidelines. As an administrator, it's my job to apply policy in a way that is completely devoid of bias and benefits the encyclopedia as a whole.
- On a side note, the deletion nomination was closed 1.5 days before the normal time. The page had a whole work week to be saved, rewritten or reworked; however, due to the lack of outside sourcing that carried reliability, there was nothing to keep that wasn't editorialized or unencyclopedic. I would also like to point out that almost every account that voiced their opinion in the 'keep' spectrum had either only edited that page or had edited very little aside from the page. Meanwhile, the deletion argument was put forward by experienced users.
- Though I understand that some people take offense to my early closure, I assure them that one extra day would not have yielded success, and that I took many factors into consideration before closing the discussion.
- Again, thank you for the civility, but I won't be overturning judgment or recreating a deletion discussion at this date. m.o.p 08:17, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
- I understand that you do not think that Mr. Ball's death is something that qualifies as an event and thus deleted said article. I disagree but I do see the merits of your argument. However, you claim to be unbiased in this debate and yet for someone who judges on the letter of the law you break the law and close debate 2.5 days before final judgment is to be rendered. If you have no corner then I ask why make this article a special case that it must be quelled , by your own admission, 2.5 days before any other articles found in similar circumstances are voted upon. I petition you to reinstate and allow the normal course of the discussion continue for the 2.5 days, allow the full opportunity for the pro side to make their case then recluse yourself from the final judgment. This is the only way to ensure transparency so that your claim of neutrality can be believed. CaffOMHW (talk) 03:28, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
ITNthx for the 2 quick updates of my nom ;)
but also can you see the bolivia one. its got support and very nearly out of the news. we could tack it nearer the border.Lihaas (talk) 22:26, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
Ball closure.
Thank God you are an ambassador for WP, and against censorship, MoP. When Wikipedia fails, and it eventually will, it will largely be because most people don't like to be gamed and would rather not read well cultivated information that is maintained by dishonest brokers who hide behind rules that are never applied in an even-handed manner. The idea that a story is not relevant merely because it is not yet encyclopedic is ridiculous when one sees all the articles which linger on for months or years in the same state. The idea that a story is not relevant because the motivations/justifications of the user are suspect would be grounds for eliminating half the biographical articles in WP. It smacks of an agenda. The appearance of impropriety is as bad as actual impropriety.173.78.20.96 (talk) 04:51, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
- I appreciate the feedback.
- I do my best to maintain an equal, proportionate response in all dealings on Wikipedia; I don't defend things I like, or attack things I dislike, just for the reason of screwing with people. That strikes me as childish. Instead, the most I can do is try to help others understand Wikipedia policies, which are generally mind-bending and hard to grasp (for example, most people ask, "What's the reasoning a war hero isn't considered notable when Donkey Kong is?").
- Maybe one day the policies will change. I mean, most of these were written five, six year ago - the world's changing, and I expect they will with time. But, for now, the guidelines handle what comes in.
- Again, thanks for the input. I appreciate not being personally attacked - it makes it easier to reply. Cheers, m.o.p 05:08, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Natami (2nd nomination)
- The close was thoroughly thought-out, so there's not much ground for me to explore that I haven't already. If you're set on going to DRV, there's nothing I can say which will change your mind, and it's your right to ask for a review. However, current consensus sits at delete (unless the 'keep' side is hiding an ace-in-the-hole reliable source or something). Cheers, m.o.p 04:55, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- So, what about the reliable sources we already brought up in the AfD such as this interview in Amiga Future or this news article from nr2.ru? We've already established that Amiga Future isn't sponsored by a hardware company as one !voter there falsely claimed. On a related note, did you discount the !votes from individuals making misleading statements or those claiming there were "no independent reliable sources"? (I could tell you how that !voter happened to show up there, but he isn't going to like it.) I could also link to forum posts by another delete !voter who showed up there who was very much into a "delete at any cost" mode because he doesn't like "amiga clones". --Tothwolf (talk) 05:11, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- Those sources were there before the previous close, and I, like the previous administrator, do not think they're strong enough.
- I've already covered what kind of rationale was discounted and what wasn't.
- As for your last statement about other editors - I'm not quite sure what your point is, but I don't think it's relevant. As I said, I've discounted any rationale that does not apply policy.
- Cheers, m.o.p 05:33, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- Uh, no...nr2.ru was only brought up in the second AfD. Strong enough is also an argument to be made in a !vote, not a closing statement. --Tothwolf (talk) 05:56, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- My apologies, the Russian source was indeed added after the first AfD. Still too shaky for a stand-alone article, though. Cheers, m.o.p 13:42, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- To follow up on my earlier comment, while I don't really want to get into an "X did this because of Y" sort of thing with regards to this AfD, there were a number of delete !voters who showed up there for personal reasons/vendettas/bias and/or who made false statements about sources. Despite the template at the top of the AfD, the second AfD also didn't suffer from the forum canvassing that the first did. One of the delete !voters actually came by way of the forum and first AfD and was trolling because of his personal dislike of Amiga clones. --Tothwolf (talk) 15:33, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
If they have valid, policy-based rationale, their personal motivation doesn't matter, solely for the reason that an encyclopedia based on liking or disliking things would crumble instantly. I'm sure some of the deletion crew could just-as-easily blame keep voters for being enthusiasts and fans of Natami - but that's not important. As a result, making allegations of personal bias is unnecessary. The help is appreciated, but there's nothing I can do with the information. m.o.p 15:39, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- It matters when someone makes false statements and tries to hide what they are doing behind policy. As for keeps, quite a number appear to be from well established editors who don't appear to be all that interested in Amiga topics. As for myself, I wasn't even aware of NatAmi until the first AfD and didn't even !vote in the first AfD since I thought it was pretty obvious it was headed for a no-consensus close. --Tothwolf (talk) 15:58, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- Again, if their rationale is grounded in policy, their motivation does not matter, simply because it's impossible to discern someone's intent through text, and because the second someone accuses another of favoritism/malicious intent the entire argument turns into a bunch of people shouting, "You're lying." That's why there's nothing I can do with your information in this case. Cheers, m.o.p 16:02, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- Apologies to you, M.O.P., for addressing another editor on your talk page, but I just wanted to jump in this conversation. Tothwolf, with no prejudice against you at all I strongly suggest you take this in perspective. There have been two AFDs and an ANI report over this article. The way you treated me on my talk page threatening DRV because I was a new administrator was, as I feel it, borderline harassing. That you canvassed two other administrators to talk to me was also a below the belt move. In good faith, I relisted the debate and it has closed again as delete. I strongly suggest taking the advice at WP:DGAF into account here and let the issue go. I don't think there will be a problem recreating this article, even pulling the old content back from the deletion log, when the subject has better sources in a broader community. I hold no ill feeling toward you, this is purely honest advice.--v/r - TP 16:46, 27 June 2011 (UTC)]
- TParis, while you are correct in that this talk page is not the place for this, because you brought this up here and you seem to value honest feedback, I'll address this here.
In no way did I ever threaten you with DRV, let alone because you were a new administrator (discussion in question). I did however upon noticing that you had passed RFA only days earlier decide it best not to press you further in public and instead sent you this short email: "Sigh. I just noticed you just finished your RFA. The Natami AfD was a bad AfD to pick to close right out of the gate. It is likely to end up at DRV and given the magazine I mentioned, overturned. I really wish you would reconsider your close. You might have noticed I didn't even !vote in the AfD itself, however I did point out a number of things and took a couple of people to task for making false or misleading statements." That is the only email I sent you about the matter and not once did I ever threaten you with DRV. Please get your facts correct before making statements such as this because such mistakes can have a negative effect on others.
After you replied expressing your disagreement over the sources (and implied that I might be biased because I sometimes contribute to computing-related articles) I asked a number of other administrators (way more than two, actually) what they thought of the AfD's close because I wanted unbiased feedback to see if I was somehow totally off-track before I initiated a DRV. The feedback I got was fairly unanimous in that the close was problematic. Before I had a chance to draft a DRV however, you reverted your own close and relisted the AfD from scratch with a new listing. In no way did I ever "canvass" anyone to "talk to you" and if others did contact you directly, they did so at their own discretion and for their own reasons.
There indeed have been two AfDs, the first of which you closed (although one could also argue that the second was merely a relist of the first). The AN/I "discussion" you also mentioned wasn't really over this article or the first AfD, it was an attempt by someone to game AN/I when they were unable to bully me on their talk page. Please be more careful making these sort of blanket statements in the future because as I mentioned above such statements can cause problems for others. --Tothwolf (talk) 17:38, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- You're email was exactly like your reply here. You like to make threats without actually making them: "such statements can cause problems". There is very little way your email cannot be interpreted as anything other than a threat of DRV because I am a new administrator. This is all I'll say on M.O.P.'s talk page as I came here to offer honest advice and you don't seem interested in it. If you'd like to discuss further with me, you know where to find my talk page.--v/r - TP 17:51, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- TParis, in no way did I ever make an implied threat. While I may be a little blunt and abrasive at times (or maybe I'm just an assume good faith in that you simply misremembered the facts I outlined above when you made this statement here. It is easy to forget a few details here or there and not everyone maintains detailed notes for this sort of stuff (I do, for a number of reasons, although I didn't always).
As far as honest advice goes, this is a two-way street and I gave you my opinion as well. If you choose to ignore and discount it, so be it, but I'd suggest you be much more careful in the future and get your facts correct before you make the sort of statement you made above. Such statements can and do cause problems for other editors. Who knows, it may just be that you've not been around long enough yet to have witnessed people blocked or punished in some way because someone else didn't have their facts together. (If you do decide you want to continue this discussion, perhaps we should take this elsewhere.) --Tothwolf (talk) 18:14, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
]
Heaton Park Hebrew Congregation (2nd nomination)
Natami
Thought you might want to know
- (talk page stalker) That's just the same little ideological website which has been pushing for the "Martyrdom of St. Thomas Ball" attention since day one; no actual new coverage. --Orange Mike | Talk 14:34, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
- I guess I should also mention that the way I found it, was that someone tried submitting it to Fark.com last night. The admins did not greenlight it, so that particular submission/thread did not go to the main Fark page, appearing only to those with Totalfark accounts. The submission said something like "Wikipedia deletes burning man" (I'm not at a computer with TF access so I might not have that exactly right). It might, theoretically, based on the submission, be considered some sort of off-site canvassing (it was submitted with the asinine tag). For what its worth, the thread went uncommented, so I don't think that particular attempt garnered any support. I just wanted to drop a line in case that this was just the first drop of a large storm. If I see anything else, I'll drop a line here. Umbralcorax (talk) 15:58, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
Wiki ad
4chan raid
Thomas James Bell, new information
- (reliable sources. --Orange Mike | Talk 13:33, 30 June 2011 (UTC)]
Happy Birthday
![](//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3d/Nuvola_apps_cookie.svg/50px-Nuvola_apps_cookie.svg.png)
Just a happy Birthday message to you, Master of Puppets, from the Wikipedia Birthday Committee! Have a great day!
Monterey Bay (talk) 02:00, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
User:BillyMoses
Natami
AFD
- Your input is appreciated, though there's nothing I can do with it but take a note. If you'd like, you can weigh in at the next AfD(s), when/if they arise. Cheers, m.o.p 19:42, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
Dr Myko San – Health from Mushrooms
- I'd be happy to help! However, I'm currently away from a computer (typing this on my phone), so I'll have to check in on the 11th of July. Does that sound okay? m.o.p 15:40, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
- wp:NODEADLINE :-) LeadSongDog come howl! 15:48, 7 July 2011 (UTC)]
From a former Wikipedian
-71.234.90.0 (talk) 04:50, 8 July 2011 (UTC)
- Hey, thanks so much! I'm not sure who you are, but I really appreciate the sentiment. Hope all is well! m.o.p 20:49, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
Deletion review for Thomas James Ball
DRV comment
DRV
Could you please overturn the deletion of these files per File:Signature of Amitabh Bachchan.svg and File:Signature of Zakir Hussain.svg:
- File:Signature of Vishwanathan Anand.svg
- File:Signature of Vijay Mallya.svg
- File:Signature of Venkaiah Naidu.svg
- File:Signature of Sudeep Bandhopadhyay.svg
- File:Signature of Sonia Gandhi.svg
- File:Signature of Somnath Chatterjee.svg
- File:Signature of Ratan Tata.svg
- File:Signature of Kumar Mangalam Birla.svg
- File:Signature of Rajeev Shukla.svg
- File:Signature of Raj Babbar.svg
- File:Signature of Rahul Gandhi.svg
- File:Signature of Priyanka Vadra.svg
- File:Signature of P. T. Usha.svg
- File:Signature of Narendra Modi.svg
- File:Signature of Nandan Nilekani.svg
- File:Signature of Manish Tewari.svg
- File:Signature of Leander Paes.svg
- File:Signature of Lata Mangeshkar.svg
- File:Signature of Kumar Mangalam Birla.svg
- File:Signature of Karia Munda.svg
- File:Signature of Kapil Sibal.svg
- File:Signature of Kamal Nath.svg
- File:Signature of K. Kamraj.svg
- File:Signature of Jaya Bachchan.svg
- File:Signature of Gautam Gambhir.svg
- File:Signature of Brinda Karat.svg
- File:Signature of Bharatsinh Solanki.svg
- File:Signature of Bhairon Singh Shekhawat.svg
- File:Signature of B. K. Birla.svg
- File:Signature of Azim Premji.svg
- File:Signature of Arun Jaitely.svg
- File:Signature of Aishwarya Rai Bachchan.svg
- File:Signature of Abhishek Manu Singhvi.svg
- File:Signature of Abhishek Bachchan.svg
- File:Signature of Sting.svg
- File:Signature of Br. L. D. Lobo.svg
- File:Signature of VJ Rannvijay Singh Singha.svg
Diligent07Appears to be less than new. See User talk:Raoulduke25 where he states that this is a deliberate series of edits.
- Can you please help defend our collective effort of including the obscene middle-finger incident in the Cheney Mason article? It should be maintained in the article for public interest, etc. Please see the Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard#Cheney Mason discussion page and include your thoughts in favor of having the content remain in the interests of the public, etc
[8], [9] and even imputation that an editor has a connection with the person [10]. He has been on since April, and started off as being experienced on WP IMHO. Kindly keep an eye out please. Especially for any sign of a real "collective effort"? Such as [11]? Cheers. Collect (talk) 11:36, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
A cookie for you!
Keep up the good work defending the "Wiki" against genre warriors. Thanks for the help! talk) 17:31, 13 July 2011 (UTC)]
Hello. You have a new message at Lionelt's talk page.
Semi protection
OK, this thing with the militant atheism page is impossibleThese guys are incredible... I could dig up diffs to show you how they revert and wikilawyer even the SMALLEST attempt to move the article closer to NPOV. But that would take a long time for you to read. How about I show you this instead:
These guys are utterly without scruples. Who in their right mind would remove the NPOV dispute tag when heated arguments have been raging for weeks and NO moves whatsoever have been made to fix the article? Oh right, that would be someone in their right mind who is running a propaganda platform.
Anyway... I wanted to ask your advice on what to do. These guys are impossible to work with. Most of the other editors have given up and refuse to put this page on their watchlist. So what to do then? Request formal mediation? Articles for deletion? Something else?
Me and the other editors would like to see the page replaced with a disambiguation page... since literally ALL the content has already been covered (better) in Criticism of atheism, State atheism and New Atheism.
Obhave (talk) 13:21, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
- Hello User:Master of Puppets. I noticed this conversation and thought I might add that an NPOV policy. Obhave (talk) 13:11, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
- One more thing, m.o.p... my opponents are currently twisting your words to make it look as if you were scolding user:Mann_jess all along. Obhave (talk) 14:42, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
]
User:Jasper Deng page protection
- No worries! m.o.p 19:35, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
Is there a procedure for brutal uncollaborated editing with a destructive intent?I noticed that you recently had problems with proposed brutal editing by Peter S Strempel. Although he has been more sensible on your project in the end (possibly because of your administrator status?) he has not been so with regard to the astrology project pages to which he made a similar 'razor-promise'. Could you please see this Afd request which is one of three he made for major 'history of astrology' articles within the last hour, with a promise on another important page that any comment which is not refrences within 7 days will be removed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Babylonian_astrology
Is there anything that can be done about this officially to stop him wreaking havoc with content whilst he knows that the small group of editors providing content on these pages are already stretched to the limit trying to keep up with what needs to be done? I don't understand what drives some people to want to edit WP like this, but I think it is entriely the result of his ego-stress that when he proposed an edit for a passage, no one favoured it. Hope you can help or advise Zac Δ talk 01:15, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks! assume good faith; I believe that Peter is simply trying to help improve Wikipedia. While his methods may be lacking in some areas, he has displayed a pretty decent grasp on the policies he's trying to enforce.
- However, I agree that he shouldn't be making any changes if they're not discussed with the community first. Do you mind pulling up a few diffs of where he went against consensus? I'll approach him with your concern then. Thanks, m.o.p 03:57, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
- Actually there hasn't been any significant content dispute with Peter. He proposed a change to a section edit which wasn't a very good proposition and a few editors commented but without rancur, and I added a new section post immediately afterwards to point out the proiposed change would contradict with how the definition was given correctly at a later point in the article, outlining how I understood WP policy expected the main astrology article to pull its own content together, along with its summarised content from its daughter pages. Peter never responded to this but other editors started working in that direction immediately. Then, without further discussion or comment, Peter came back four days later to announce an intention to take his 'word razor' to all unreferenced assertions on the main astrology page, its sub-pages, and the portal page itself, to ensure his perceived disagreement was not circumvented in pages he viewed as content forks (I'm still not sure what he means by that). My response to that can be seen - a perfectly reasonable request for him to do what he felt was most productive, but consider that citation-tagging was the way to go. I also placed comments on his talk-page, which you can read if you are interested. That he erupted into a frenzy of AfD requests last night says something, I think, about his unwillingness to discuss and engage in other views. Most of his posts appear as new section declarations that don't appear to have considered the responses other editors give him.
- I've summarised this in the ANI request Dougweller started. The deletion requests were a step too far IMO, and I'm concerned that Peter would spring to such drastic measures in reaction to what he perceives to be me not allowing him to do what he wants to do. I'll be away for a few days so I'm tying up my WP activity now. That underlines my concern that he intends to take such drastic action with only one week's notice of intent. Thanks for looking into this. It would be good if something could be proposed to stop huge problems before they occur. 10:35, 22 July 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zachariel (talk • contribs
)
- One last request. I have just noticed that a related complaint, which is quite serious but has been sidetracked (deliberatly IMO) by Peter's suggestions that I have prevented him from doing what he wants, has been collapsed as "going nowehere" by an unsympathetic editor.
- "Its ben here several days and no admin has even sniffed at a block or ban - clearly you're not going to get admin action. So this should got to WP:DR or WP:RFCU if you want to take it further. I've boldly collapsed this, though I won't be surprised if someone uncollapses it"
- If you can find the time could you at least take a look at that related problem, and consider uncollapsing it, because the issues are serious and have gone beyond the point where Dispute resolution are appropriate. I will be away and have nothing more to add, but the problems identified still remain. Zac Δ talk 10:58, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
What to do?
- I've started a threat at ANI. Those AfDs are purely pointy and if no one objects I'll close them. talk) 06:11, 22 July 2011 (UTC)]
- Replied there. m.o.p 08:20, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
Talk Page on Militant Atheism - Introduction Section
- The update is appreciated, thanks very much. I've been dealing with life for the past two weeks, but I'll be back to close that discussion tonight or tomorrow. Thanks again, m.o.p 22:03, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
- Just bringing this up again, given the current state of this section. I believe the discussion will be archived automatically if not closed. I'm sorry if I sound pushy with you having a lot on your plate of late. If you would prefer, I could alert User:Fastily instead. Turnsalso (talk) 16:55, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
ITN
- I knew that tab I closed had unfinished business on it... thanks. 2008 University of Central Arkansas shootings is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.
The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2008 University of Central Arkansas shootings(2nd nomination) until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on good quality evidence, and our policies and guidelines.
Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article.
talk 14:00, 1 September 2011 (UTC)]
Hey
- Done! Both your userpage and the transcluded page are protected. Cheers, « ₣M₣ » 04:09, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Restored. m.o.p 05:21, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
]
User talk:Joshua the Independent
- My mistake - my block script auto-filled the edit summary. The block was issued due to the user's newfound will to disrupt Wikipedia intentionally. Their previous contributions are welcome, but this behaviour necessitates administrative action. m.o.p 21:52, 13 September 2011 (UTC)
Say hi to your imaginary girlfriend for me
- Well, I do love getting hate mail. Thanks for the laugh! Cheers, m.o.p 05:17, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
...further to the above lovely note, I weighed in on Calabe's talk page - there appears to be more confusion here than at first glance. bou·le·var·dier (talk) 05:19, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
Sorry to drop by again, but Silentsizzlingsausage (talk · contribs) would appear to be a duck. bou·le·var·dier (talk) 05:31, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
- No, it's not an issue! Thanks for the note, blocked. Cheers, WP:SPI. Thanks again, m.o.p 06:13, 14 September 2011 (UTC)]
I have to admit ...
- See the above section. The link is apparently a very subtle spam link that Calabe is removing, and socks are springing up to revert him. Swarm u / t 10:20, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
Moderation
- Alright, I'll make my way back. Thanks for letting me know! m.o.p 05:18, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
User:12.139.96.228
- To be honest, this case is perplexing. Half of this user's edits are constructive (mostly sourced), the other half aren't sourced - and the user won't reply to anybody. I'm also too busy to go through every edit and confirm whether or not it's good. I forgot about this for a while - I'll think about it tonight and figure something out for tomorrow. Thanks for reminding me! m.o.p 05:18, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
Whoops
- Whoops! Must not have been looking when I ran my block script. Thanks for letting me know, I've reblocked them for a far shorter (technically, an infinitely shorter) time. Cheers, m.o.p 22:58, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
Ashleyleggat404
- You're fully right in that the blanking policy covers indefinite blocks. I've removed the user's talk page rights as a result. Thanks again! m.o.p 00:28, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkback
Moderation
- If you look into this please consider whether Anupam's actions on the talk page and the entry itself are violations of WP:OWN. He's been driving off those he disagrees with by bludgening them to death with argument and heavily policing the entry claiming that there is a consensus written in stone despite many dissenting voices. Others have taken to simply calling him "the article's owner." I have had enough of this behavior personally and left him a message about it on his talk page. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:52, 20 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Dear User:Master of Puppets, the above user has misrepresented the occurrences at the article. I started another Introduction discussion at the article's talk page but User:Griswaldo has chosen to edit war over a second NPOV tag, despite the fact that one already exists in the article. He has done so despite the fact that the Introduction is being discussed in a peaceful manner at the talk page, in violation of your injunction: "We've only got consensus on this proposed versions (and loose consensus at that) - please do not attempt to subvert said consensus by making undiscussed changes." I have posted a message on his talk page about this behaviour. Nevertheless, I also do not wish to argue with the user personally and would prefer if you could go back to moderating the discussion between the two parties at the talk page. Thanks for taking the time to read this message. With regards, AnupamTalk 20:58, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- His "injunction?" Adding a neutrality tag to a specific sentence which an editor disputes the neutrality of is hardly "subverting the consensus by making undiscussed changes." Please stop wikilawyering to get your way. There is a growing consensus against your position regarding this article in general as well, despite your aggressive policing of the entry and the talk page. See ]
- I just thought that I would mention that User:Griswaldo, after seeing this message, just now decided to comment in the discussion rather than edit war against consensus further. Thanks for taking the time to read this message. With regards, AnupamTalk 21:51, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- "Edit war against consensus further?" My comment there has nothing to do with your message here. I've made three total edits to this entry ever. One was a copy edit in June, another was reverting an IP vandal, and the third was the revert of your Ownership edit. Please do not insinuate that I'm a edit warrior on this page. It is disingenuous.Griswaldo (talk) 22:08, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Thank you all for approaching me with your concerns.
- Obviously, I do not support Anupam - this is because I'm remaining a neutral third party, and, therefore, can't take sides. However, Griswaldo: please keep in mind that I did ask for all discussion to take place on the talk page. Why not just add your complaints to the talk page? It would have been much easier to discuss.
- I do agree that adding a NPOV tag, while slightly redundant, isn't horrible, but your intent seems to have been to stir discussion on that particular section, discussion that would be much more appropriate on the talk page.
- As for your and Snalwibma's concerns of Anupam trying to 'own' the article, I'm curious as to what you two mean; what 'delusions'?
- Also, Griswaldo, I don't think Anupam meant to insinuate you are an edit warrior (though this is just my take) - rather, they wanted to add the note that you've weighed in on discussion. m.o.p 22:10, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- your intent seems to have been to stir discussion on that particular section - No that's incorrect. I didn't add this tag, I simply reverted Anupam's attempt to own the page when he removed it. I agreed with JimWae's addition of the tag and found Anupam's removal to be unwarranted and a display of ownership.Griswaldo (talk) 22:16, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Note that, for all intents and purposes, reverting somebody is adding whatever is included in your edit, regardless of who put it there first. You revert a removal, you're agreeing with the edition you're reverting to - simple.
- And, if you agreed with JimWae, then we go back to what I was saying earlier - say so on the talk page. Two of you agree? Great! That's closer to consensus. But it means nothing if you express your support by reverting removals.
- Again, as I've asked multiple times, please stop saying that Anupam is owning anything without giving me evidence of it first. m.o.p 22:22, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Dear User:Master of Puppets, thank you for your reply to all of us. The reason User:Snalwibma stated that I was attempting to "own" the article was because I reverted an undiscussed removal from the article, which not only myself, but two other users objected to. In fact, two anonymous IP Addresses also reverted User:Snalwibma. I was open to compromise on the issue and stated that I would accept User:Turnsalso's compromise on the issue. I kindly request you to look at that discussion yourself and get an honest reading of it. Also, the only reason I removed the second NPOV tag was because there was already one present, which I did not remove. I only reverted the addition of a second NPOV tag once and even explained myself on the talk page. When I went to the talk page, I found rude accusations and an anti-collaborative spirit, despite the fact that I have been nothing but polite. I hope this helps. With regards, AnupamTalk 22:25, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry - I know I should not rise to the bait, but I have to object to the comment "The reason User:Snalwibma stated that I was attempting to 'own' the article was because I reverted an undiscussed removal ..." How dare Anupam presume to know what is in my mind! The reason I describe Anupam's attitude to the article as one of ownership is because that is how s/he behaves - "policing" every edit, pronouncing on whether s/he "accepts" or "rejects" it, peremptorily reverting anything s/he does not like, without discussion, presuming to know others' motives, and judging them as fit/unfit to contribute to the article. This has been going on for weeks, if not months. It is impossible to discuss the content of the article, let alone improve the text, because everything is filtered through the approval/disapproval of the article's self-appointed guardian, Anupam. tendentious or disruptive when they bring up certain issues, even when they are clearly in the majority. That is not collaborative. I stopped editing the article heavily because of those issues. I don't have any delusions that my opinion is worth more than anyone else's here, but I would think that the large number of established, experienced editors who are all saying there's a problem, would indicate something. — Jess· Δ♥ 19:45, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
Please reconsider your full protection of Militant atheist
- In case you didn't notice, I asked that people think twice about pointing fingers at each other. If you'd like to start a sockpuppetry investigation, let me know, and we can take that avenue - however, don't accuse other editors of ownership without substance. If you think Anupam is trying to own things, give me something. Diffs, edits, anything. I'll check it out for you, but right now, baseless accusations are not what I'm looking for.
- Also, notice that I protected the article with your edit being the last one. How is that validating the very person you've been reverting?
- The protection will stay until consensus is reached. m.o.p 22:19, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Because protection is what he wants quite clearly. He's stalling conversation and shouting down people on the talk page, where, if you have a look, you'll see he's clearly in the minority. Because of your "injunction" as he calls it, he also claims that no matter how many people agree with a certain change it is illegitimate. I'll be happy to gather some diffs, but my first message to you above was to please look into the situation carefully before acting on it. Did you do that and come to the conclusion that I'm wrong or did you not head that request? Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:29, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Yes, I did heed your request. I don't see any ownership behaviour from Anupam, though, being involved in multiple disputes, I didn't have the time to read every last word on the page, so you're free to provide evidence. However, from what I can see, Anupam's last proposal was supported by the majority - not to count (and I don't mean to imply that I decide where consensus lies by looking at pure numbers), but from looking at pure supports versus opposes, eight people (nine including Anupam) support while four oppose. How does that make Anupam's views a minority? m.o.p 22:37, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- It depends on what view you are talking about. The current RFC on the introduction is something that most people don't even want to engage because most people think this very entry should be split up and integrated into other entries. I reluctantly engaged the RfC just now myself. The last time the more serious question about the entry was asked, several of the new commentators were not around, and there was "no consensus" found because the opposing side was chalk full of SPAs and editors with a view that is outright hostile to atheism (which is a legitimate view to hold, but it is a minority view). Let me find you some diffs.Griswaldo (talk) 22:43, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- User:Griswaldo, that is exactly the issue: you do not want to collaborate with other users on the talk page, which is why you were reluctant to participate in the current RfC. Moreover, there were several SPA's on the side of the opposition as well, including WP:NPOV. In addition, the split was again recently discussed and the specific case to do so was refuted by several editors. As such, there was no consensus for it. I hope this helps. With regards, AnupamTalk 22:52, 20 September 2011 (UTC)]
- No. You are trying to write an article that violates WP:SYNTH because it conflates New Atheism with oppressive communist regimes and their histories of violence. That's hardly NPOV. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:59, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
Hi m.o.p., as someone who occasionally looks at that page (and then washes my hands), I just want to compliment you as having done the right thing in full protecting. By way of unsolicited advice to the involved editors, the best thing they could do is to allow The Wrong Version to sit there a good long time, and devote their energy to other things. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:54, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
]
Yes, please reconsider your full protection of
WP:RS—deserve protection against misinformed reverts. Thanks Geremia (talk) 16:12, 22 September 2011 (UTC)]
Diffs of
- I'm not really sure where the ownership is here; nowhere in our policies is it stated that a user can't promote their RFC on the subject talk page. If it's ongoing and they'd like to move it to the forefront, what's wrong with that? More so, some of your summaries seem inaccurate - in that last diff, you state that Anupam is removing images, yet I only see Anupam adding an image (the peace dove that's at the top of the page). Also, you use repeating examples. m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Well clearly the last diff was wrong. Thanks for the vote of confidence. There are no repeat examples nor inaccurate summaries, just a mistaken copy paste of the second to last diff to the last position as well. I have fixed it. Cheers.
- Using "consensus claims from one RfC to reject changes made to article content
- Same as above. Using the "consensus" bludgeon to get his way. Please note that clearly we ought to edit by consensus, but this consensus is highly disputed, and IMO not there in the first place. The real problem is the way in which Anupam decides to use it like a trump card to remove changes he doesn't like. Ask yourself if all changes post "consensus" have been removed or just the ones Anupam decided he wanted removed.
Master of Puppets do you need more diffs or is this enough?Griswaldo (talk) 23:31, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Well I need more diffs because your "evidence" so far looks like a desperate attempt to incriminate an editor who has been very successful in persuading his colleagues to adopt his proposals. Anupam has presented his proposals, argued the merits and persuaded many editors. Anything you want to tell us about why you're having difficulty doing likewise? – Lionel (talk) 06:02, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- I don't see this is as conclusive evidence, either. And, it should be said - if people are editing against established consensus, then people are free to re-evaluate consensus, but edit-warring against it doesn't make much sense. m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- If not ownership then what is this - [28], [29], [30]? He removes two RfCs started by another editor, and revolving around the question that many of us actually find to be the fundamental question to answer regarding the entry. Then he edit wars to keep these RfCs off the page, claiming again to have some sort of authority stemming from your prior actions. If you aren't willing to do something here I'm going to another administrator and I'm going to ask for your initial "consensus," your strong arm administrating, and your lack of action here to be reviewed as well. Thanks.Griswaldo (talk) 17:08, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Anupam has already apologized for reverting those RfC additions, and we've moved past it. He also didn't claim to have administrative authority, but was waiting for my approval. We've cleared this up, it's not an issue. So no, I'm not going to take any action (as I've said here and on ANI). Now, if you'd like to threaten me and tell me that, since I'm not cooperating with your wills, you'll go to another administrator, that's fine - as I've said, you can seek outside opinions - but remember to keep a cool head, because borderline threats are not appreciated. m.o.p 21:49, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- It was not a threat, "borderline" or otherwise. You are conveniently ignoring a growing number of voices who are all saying the same thing - there is an ownership problem here. The deletion issue has not been "cleared up" as far as I'm concerned. Whenever it is mentioned Anupam insists that he did not "unilaterally" delete the RfCs from the page, which is a blatant distortion, since that is exactly what he did. He continues to act as a policeman at the page, and yes he does continue to cite your authority. Did you bother to read the many diffs I posted above in the second two sections? I will quote three random examples from those I provided for you if you want.
- When he first deleted the two RfCs he wrote: "rv - see discussion with reviewing administrator; approval needed to start another RfC while one is already occurring."
- When he deleted a fact tag that JimWae put into the lede: "rv excessive tagging per talk; tag is already extant in header; do not subvert previous consensus but gain consensus for potential additions per administrative notice"
- When he rejected another recent change to the entry: "accepted edits by User:Jkhwiki; rv removal of longstanding referenced content - see discussion on talk page and gain consensus for action per administrative injunction"
- In talk page comments and in edit summaries he consistently does the same thing. He refers to your authority, either directly or indirectly through your "notice" or your "injunction" as he likes to call it. I never said the claimed to have administrative authority, I said that he's using your authority, by way of your comments, such as the closure of the AfD to bully people. Do you deny that he citing your comments, because if you do then I must have fabricated those quotes. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:32, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
If you say "If you don't do A, then I'm going to go and do B", that's a threat. Anyway, that's not the issue - we've already covered all the issues with the RfC reverting, and Anupam won't do it again. Why keep raising hell over it?
We've already covered everything you bring up. And no, I'm not denying anything. I'm just saying this, and it's very simple: I don't think there has been any blatant ownership here. That's my judgment. If you disagree, again, feel free to raise this with another administrator or on ANI. m.o.p 23:12, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Regarding the new RFC, I still think there has not passed yet too much time since the last discussion about splitting the article. As far as I knew, repeating these sorts of debates (like splitting, deleting, renaming) before a larger amount of time has passed (like 6 months) is usually discouraged. And as others have also argued earlier, even if having multiple RFCs is possible, it's not very useful, and the new RFC seems to discourage further discussion about improving the lead introduction. So preventing multiple RFCs (and also a RFC about an issue debated not too long ago) does not look to me like evidence of bad faith intentions. Cody7777777 (talk) 21:37, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Cody, would you mind linking me to the previous RfC on splitting? m.o.p 21:49, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- The previous attempt to split the article can be found here. Cody7777777 (talk) 21:55, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Response
Yes, it does. Thanks, m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Dear User:Master of Puppets, I just noticed that User:Binksternet started another RfC while a current one is occurring. Is this appropriate? I reverted the addition motioning for one until your response is confirmed. If it is acceptable, then I apologize and will revert my edit. I look forward to your response. With regards, AnupamTalk 15:14, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'll form my reply on ANI. m.o.p 17:12, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- When you do please take into account my comment just above, regarding Anupam's edit warring to remove talk page comments (namely these RfCs) posted by others on the talk page. If you still don't think this is WP:OWN then clearly other administrators are needed here.Griswaldo (talk) 17:15, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Dear User:Griswaldo, how is going to a neutral mediator to address the issue owning the article? I acknowledge that the article is in dispute and as a result, I am asking an administrator for advice in this matter, NOT handling things on my own, as you have done by edit warring. Your WP:OWN allegations have not only been dismissed by this administrator, but by several other users, including, User:Lionelt, User:Cody7777777 and User:NYyankees51. Thanks, AnupamTalk 17:27, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- In reply to Griswaldo: reverting the RfCs was a mistake, but we've cleared that up now. As Anupam has stated at ANI, the intent was not to discourage discussion. If you think my judgment is compromised, you're welcome to seek another administrator's input. m.o.p 21:04, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- And as further evidence of WP:OWN, see this. Anupam adds a comment to everything that anyone else says, as if he/she is the owner of the article and everyone else is a subordinate contributor. This particular instance is pretty benign (although it clutters up the talk page with an unnecessary comment that merely says "I agree"), but I do think that Anupam at least needs to learn how to avoid giving the appearance of thinking he/she owns the article, and to desist from chipping in and saying the same thing over and over again, which almost makes meaningful discussion impossible! SNALWIBMA ( talk - contribs ) 17:31, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- While the input is appreciated, as I've said before, making allegations of ownership without hard evidence isn't going to get us anywhere. Anupam is not stopping others from discussing changes or forming consensus, and that's all that matters - refactoring the talk page or commenting on an issue is not against policy, and I'm not going to tell someone to stop editing because it "looks" like they're doing something wrong. As said above, you're welcome to request another administrator's insight if you wish. m.o.p 21:04, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
COIHi
you've helped me out before, with a conflict of interest problem, so having much more experience than me on wikipedia, I thought I would be bold enough to ask again for help.
Similar problem to last, User_talk:Hobbycraft is editing the HOBBYCRAFT article and making changes that aren't citably right. I think the user name suggest and history suggests a conflict of interest case.
Can you please, speak to them addressing this issue.
Thank you very much for your help.
Markcoulter50 (talk) 22:27, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
- I've blocked that user for username violations. Thanks a lot for letting me know! Keep up the great work, m.o.p 23:00, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkbackcausa sui (talk) 18:47, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Hello. You have a new message at causa sui's talk page. causa sui (talk) 20:54, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Problematic editing on militant atheism
- I hope it's not considered defamatory to repeat the final line: "I merely present the diffs above, and let others draw their own conclusions. Is this a duck? Does it quack? You decide.". Unfortunately, the concerned community no longer has that opportunity. What did you decide on their behalf? Does this duck quack, or not? bobrayner (talk) 15:42, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- It's not your wording, it's the very idea of it. Going to what's allegorically a public place and shouting, "Hey, everybody, this man is a criminal!" is one step below blatantly forming a lynch mob. As I've said, I have no problem with your wording or evidence, just your location of choice. Wikipedia is not, unfortunately, a democracy - letting others draw their conclusions and voice their opinions is not how a sockpuppet investigation works.
- So yes, please don't go restoring any of that section. We're not discussing editors, we're discussing the content they produce. Anything else has a sub-board to deal with it (like WP:SPI).
- Hopefully that clears things up! I'll be happy to answer any more questions should you have them. Cheers, m.o.p 15:48, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Hello User:Bobrayner, I noticed the section you created on the militant atheism talk page. If you do feel the way you do about User:Turnsalso and the anonymous IP Addresses, you can take this up with WP:SPI. Thanks, AnupamTalk 15:52, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
Are you kidding my MoP? Above your write: Going to what's allegorically a public place and shouting, "Hey, everybody, this man is a criminal!" is one step below blatantly forming a lynch mob. AND We're not discussing editors, we're discussing the content they produce. Yet you call this edit by Lionelt "good faith," at WQA? MoP, I would not ask you to agree with me or to like me, but can I please ask you not to insult me with these double standards.Griswaldo (talk) 16:18, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
]
- Griswaldo, I mean no offense when I say this, but I'd appreciate it if you stayed out of discussions which didn't involve you. Also, please don't put words in my mouth. Thanks, m.o.p 16:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I have not put words in your mouth. You said that you would assume good faith about Lionel. If you "assume good faith" it means you assume his edits were in "good faith." If you did not intend that meaning I suggest you reconsider what you wrote. Also, if you want me to "stay out of discussion which don't involve me" then I suggest your first order of business should be to do the same thing yourself. You decided to post at WQA, when there was no mention of you or anything you've done in that thread. Once again, I expect people not to practice double standards. So as long as you cannot show me that you will treat me as you ask to be treated yourself, I will not oblige you. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:21, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Please stop bickering. I'm not quite sure what you're trying to accomplish here. I've already explained what I meant when I said assuming good faith, but I'll explain again: I assumed that Lionelt was not hounding or deliberately haranguing you. I did not say, at any point, that his edit content was good faith, and I've told him not to edit like that again. So please stop accusing me of saying things I haven't said.
- Also, I posted in WQA because, as a mediator in this case and as an administrator, it's my duty to weigh in on administrative noticeboards, especially when the case is an ongoing discussion I've been participating in for three months. It is not your duty to weigh in on discussions on my talk page that don't concern you. I hope the distinction is clear here. m.o.p 20:33, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I think you are confused about something. Content is never good faith. "Editing in good faith" and "good faith edits" refers to the intent of the editor always. It has nothing to do with content. My assumption that you also felt the edits were appropriate comes from the fact that you did not say they weren't appropriate and clearly feel that his intentions were good. If you'd like to set the record straight on that issue you still can. I've asked you twice now to discuss the actual edits that are the focal point of the thread. Also, I moved the thread to ANI, per the suggestion of the editor who marked it "resolved."Griswaldo (talk) 20:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- See Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#User:Lionelt_--_following_my_past_edits_to_drum_up_support_against_me. FYI, I copy pasted the entire discussion because both you and Collect were critical of my initial post and I thought it was the right thing to do to preserve that criticism in the record of the conversation. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:43, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- In reply to your first paragraph: I'm going to give up now, as it seems you're misunderstanding most of what I type, but you're the one who stated that the content was not good faith (as you said, not appropriate), and I agreed - I referred to his intent in replying to you, and said that I assumed good faith in his motives, not his replies. I can't really say that in a clearer way, so my apologies if it's hard to understand. Also, as I've already said, I've left a message for Lionelt about his edits, so clearly I do not feel they're appropriate. m.o.p 20:57, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I, too, find these double standards vexing.
- Which diff is defamatory?
- I had hitherto thought that people on the article talkpage might like to be aware of potential problems with votestacking on the article talkpage (and 3rr evasion, of course). Would it be permitted to add a link to that list of diffs when it's in a different place, or would you consider that defamatory too? bobrayner (talk) 16:23, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- As I said, the information is not defamatory, but the way it's presented is - we have specific processes available to pursue should one feel there are sockpuppets about. However, calling someone out with the intent of informing the community is overstepping your authority and damaging to the accused's character. Also, there's no way a community discussion about whether or not one editor is a sockpuppet can end in anything other than a sockpuppet investigation anyway.
- So, in closing, please don't bring issues like this to the talk page. If you're concerned about votestacking, take it to the appropriate venue - if your concerns are validated, we'll take measures against said puppets. Cheers, m.o.p 16:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I am very disappointed that it's no longer permissible to raise problems with article-editing on the article talkpage. Previous concerns about sockpuppetry were simply ignored; the difference this time is that it's backed by lots of diffs.
- I'm fairly confident that the people concerned have sufficient technical nous to make checkuser draw a blank. And, let's be entirely honest, within minutes of me creating an SPI, an admin of the right persuasion will be getting an email suggesting that an SPI needs their attention. And SPI does not see offsite coordination by a facebook group &c. Finally, any null result at SPI will be used at the article in much the same way as previous administrative decisions have been. So, I do not believe that an SPI will improve either the article, or the encyclopædia as a whole. bobrayner (talk) 17:08, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- If you don't think the pre-existing methods set in place for situations like this are sufficient, you can always raise that concern at the village pump or suggest a policy revision - however, SPI is the venue for these requests, and the only venue. The talk page can not substitute. m.o.p 17:10, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
76.228.226.122Thank you for blocking the anonymous user, who is being counterproductive and rude. (although I think the block should have been one week, but I guess ok at least)
Can you also please try to hide the edit summaries of these edits if possible?
This and
this
Thanks and regards, talk 05:04, 26 September 2011 (UTC)]
- I'll extend the block if this behaviour continues after the block period is over.
- As for the edit summaries, those don't warrant hiding - I apologize for their content, but they don't meet the criteria of what I should remove. It's best just to ignore them for now. Cheers, m.o.p 05:13, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
- Okay, good to know, if I did nothing wrong, no permanent block will be enforced. The IP does not volunteer on WP as an admin and so the disproportionately out of line comments and threats of his should be ignored. --talk 05:19, 26 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Sounds good. We only hide extremely offensive revisions; milder ones stay in the edit history. Thanks again for bringing this to our attention! Cheers, m.o.p 05:31, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
Email
Jasper Deng (talk) 05:29, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
- Reading. talk) 06:00, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Bad Girls Club
- I've blocked Junebea for 2 days for disregarding warnings. m.o.p 20:30, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks for helping :) Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 21:06, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkback
- And again.Griswaldo (talk) 04:24, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
- And again ... but maybe the last. You can settle this question once and for all. See the talk page.Griswaldo (talk) 06:09, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'm sure I'm not alone in wanting to hear your replies to the last responses posed to you at that page. IMO, I don't know why you went down the road you did, but as far as I can tell you're blatantly misrepesenting facts about your own actions when people are brining concerns to you. You might think that since you closed the RfC the matter is settled, but it is not. You're actions have not made my life any more pleasant in the last few days vis-a-vis trying to deal with Anupam's disruption and I think you owe us all answers. So please revisit this thread and deal with the open questions. Thanks.Griswaldo (talk) 02:19, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
- I invite you to stop asking the same question again and again. This would be appreciated. Thanks, m.o.p 02:33, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Block question
- No, I just block obviously bad-faith accounts on sight. Advertising/spam accounts fall under that category. m.o.p 00:37, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Thanks
- Thank you. I've unlocked the article for whatever may come. If I'm needed again, feel free to let me know. Thanks for the kind words again, m.o.p 05:12, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
reminder
- We're still waiting to see if the user understands COI policy (per Ed's question). I'll prod the user and see if they'll answer. talk) 19:20, 30 September 2011 (UTC)]
Nextel logo deleted
- Mmm, good point. What's the link to the logo in question? m.o.p 01:33, 2 October 2011 (UTC)
Support of Sage City SymphonyYou deleted this page before I had a chance to go back in and add the stuff that you wanted to see, including the links within Wikipedia to important composers such as Lou Callabro (who started this orchestra and cites it in his Wikipedia page) and Susan Hurley whose work we premiered (SC is also mentioned in her Wikipedia entry). (Let alone links about the works we have performed.) And we have a web site at www.sagecitysymphony.org, have existed for over 35 yrs and are a significant cultural resource in the Bennington area such that we receive grants from local, statewide and national foundations.
I broke my wrist last weekend and am doing one-handed pecking so it'll take me a few days to get that loaded in. We are going out for a bit now, but I would appreciate your undeleting the page so that I don't have to re-invent the starting part when I go back in tomorrow to add links. Or delete it entirely so that I can start fresh - at this point either would work as long as I can start some serious work on it tomorrow. I am the webmaster by the way, so I do have access to content and more links.
Thank you, Celia Murray — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.228.127.119 (talk) 14:22, 1 October 2011 (UTC)
- It looks like fixed everything up. Best of luck, m.o.p 01:35, 2 October 2011 (UTC)]
Reply on Deterence's talk page
MA
After the beating you took you deserve a cold one--on me! Thanks for being fair and balanced – Lionel (talk) 03:55, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
- Hey, thanks! Glad to help out. :) m.o.p 03:56, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
Deletion of Mau5trap Recordings
--neocharles (talk) 07:33, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Existence does not equal notability - the subject has to be notable to get a Wikipedia page. m.o.p 12:05, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
Questoin re: AIV
- Addendum, actually, I read it very clearly in WP:VANDNOT: "Uploading or using material on Wikipedia in violation of Wikipedia's copyright policies is prohibited, but is not vandalism unless the user does so maliciously or fails to heed warnings." So if a person fails to heed warnings it is vandalism. My mistake here was that I only warned once. --Muhandes (talk) 12:29, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Eh, technically it is vandalism, but the user seems to be trying to improve the Wikipedia - that desire to help is misplaced in this case, as they seem to think that using copyrighted content is actually better. Weird. For most cases, yes, you should report copyvio to AIV - as long as they've been warned sufficiently. m.o.p 12:42, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- OK, he now did it again and the time stamp is after your last warning. Is it vandalism now? --Muhandes (talk) 12:32, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Yeah, if they're outright ignoring warnings. I've blocked for three days. m.o.p 12:40, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
Classmusic
- Oh, I know. But if somebody's lied to my face about using another account - and to other editors working on the article - I'm not about to let them go without a repercussion or two. I'd like Almost-instinct and Voceditnore to look over the article and fix up anything shifty. Also, I'd like Classmusic to respond to my warning, instead of blanking it and ignoring like they have to the above-named editors.
- So, in short, I know that COI doesn't bar editing, but it's enough of a concern that, given the user's recent behaviour, I'll stop them from doing anything until we've figured things out. This isn't too rouge-y, is it? I didn't hear that. Perhaps he is unaware of the sockpuppet investigation findings. Anyhow it seems that DeltaQuad has also blocked the Classmusic account. I left a note on his page about using the unblock template, but re-iterated that he needs to read the COI and Autobiography guidelines and stick to them scrupulously, if he gets unblocked. In the Opera and Classical Music WikiProjects, we get a lot of articles for performers, ensembles, etc. created by their agents and PR people, and often themselves. In my experience, the best I can hope for after one of these tussles is that they'll edit their article according to the guidelines in future. I have yet to find a single one who has ever contributed anything else to Wikipedia. Their only interest in the project is as a PR tool. Having said that, at least it results (after much red-pencilling from other editors) in one new article on a notable subject that we didn't have before and in a small way redresses the pop culture systemic bias here. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 13:40, 5 October 2011 (UTC)]
Danish election
- Never mind, it's been pulled by another admin. All the best, Jenks24 (talk) 11:03, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry about that! I was busy all day and didn't get your message until now. Thanks for letting me know, though! Cheers, m.o.p 19:51, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
3RRHey there! :)
Well WP:CRYSTAL has wined down, however, there's currently a
The Bad Girls Club (season 7). I have notified the two users [32], [33]. The evidence can be found here. They are having an edit-conflict on how the "Duration of cast" should be presented. Since there's no rules regarding anything like that, and it was made up about a year ago, I couldn't warned them to stop their e/c with anything except the 3RR rule. Maybe they need an admin to tell them to stop, so that's why I came to you :) Thanks, Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 01:17, 6 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Temporary page protection requested. Calabe1992 (talk) 01:29, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
- So, what about the reliable sources we already brought up in the AfD such as this interview in Amiga Future or this news article from nr2.ru? We've already established that Amiga Future isn't sponsored by a hardware company as one !voter there falsely claimed. On a related note, did you discount the !votes from individuals making misleading statements or those claiming there were "no independent reliable sources"? (I could tell you how that !voter happened to show up there, but he isn't going to like it.) I could also link to forum posts by another delete !voter who showed up there who was very much into a "delete at any cost" mode because he doesn't like "amiga clones". --Tothwolf (talk) 05:11, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- Those sources were there before the previous close, and I, like the previous administrator, do not think they're strong enough.
- I've already covered what kind of rationale was discounted and what wasn't.
- As for your last statement about other editors - I'm not quite sure what your point is, but I don't think it's relevant. As I said, I've discounted any rationale that does not apply policy.
- Cheers, m.o.p 05:33, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- Uh, no...nr2.ru was only brought up in the second AfD. Strong enough is also an argument to be made in a !vote, not a closing statement. --Tothwolf (talk) 05:56, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- My apologies, the Russian source was indeed added after the first AfD. Still too shaky for a stand-alone article, though. Cheers, m.o.p 13:42, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- To follow up on my earlier comment, while I don't really want to get into an "X did this because of Y" sort of thing with regards to this AfD, there were a number of delete !voters who showed up there for personal reasons/vendettas/bias and/or who made false statements about sources. Despite the template at the top of the AfD, the second AfD also didn't suffer from the forum canvassing that the first did. One of the delete !voters actually came by way of the forum and first AfD and was trolling because of his personal dislike of Amiga clones. --Tothwolf (talk) 15:33, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- My apologies, the Russian source was indeed added after the first AfD. Still too shaky for a stand-alone article, though. Cheers, m.o.p 13:42, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- Uh, no...nr2.ru was only brought up in the second AfD. Strong enough is also an argument to be made in a !vote, not a closing statement. --Tothwolf (talk) 05:56, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- Again, if their rationale is grounded in policy, their motivation does not matter, simply because it's impossible to discern someone's intent through text, and because the second someone accuses another of favoritism/malicious intent the entire argument turns into a bunch of people shouting, "You're lying." That's why there's nothing I can do with your information in this case. Cheers, m.o.p 16:02, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- Apologies to you, M.O.P., for addressing another editor on your talk page, but I just wanted to jump in this conversation. Tothwolf, with no prejudice against you at all I strongly suggest you take this in perspective. There have been two AFDs and an ANI report over this article. The way you treated me on my talk page threatening DRV because I was a new administrator was, as I feel it, borderline harassing. That you canvassed two other administrators to talk to me was also a below the belt move. In good faith, I relisted the debate and it has closed again as delete. I strongly suggest taking the advice at WP:DGAF into account here and let the issue go. I don't think there will be a problem recreating this article, even pulling the old content back from the deletion log, when the subject has better sources in a broader community. I hold no ill feeling toward you, this is purely honest advice.--v/r - TP 16:46, 27 June 2011 (UTC)]
- TParis, while you are correct in that this talk page is not the place for this, because you brought this up here and you seem to value honest feedback, I'll address this here.
In no way did I ever threaten you with DRV, let alone because you were a new administrator (discussion in question). I did however upon noticing that you had passed RFA only days earlier decide it best not to press you further in public and instead sent you this short email: "Sigh. I just noticed you just finished your RFA. The Natami AfD was a bad AfD to pick to close right out of the gate. It is likely to end up at DRV and given the magazine I mentioned, overturned. I really wish you would reconsider your close. You might have noticed I didn't even !vote in the AfD itself, however I did point out a number of things and took a couple of people to task for making false or misleading statements." That is the only email I sent you about the matter and not once did I ever threaten you with DRV. Please get your facts correct before making statements such as this because such mistakes can have a negative effect on others.
After you replied expressing your disagreement over the sources (and implied that I might be biased because I sometimes contribute to computing-related articles) I asked a number of other administrators (way more than two, actually) what they thought of the AfD's close because I wanted unbiased feedback to see if I was somehow totally off-track before I initiated a DRV. The feedback I got was fairly unanimous in that the close was problematic. Before I had a chance to draft a DRV however, you reverted your own close and relisted the AfD from scratch with a new listing. In no way did I ever "canvass" anyone to "talk to you" and if others did contact you directly, they did so at their own discretion and for their own reasons.
There indeed have been two AfDs, the first of which you closed (although one could also argue that the second was merely a relist of the first). The AN/I "discussion" you also mentioned wasn't really over this article or the first AfD, it was an attempt by someone to game AN/I when they were unable to bully me on their talk page. Please be more careful making these sort of blanket statements in the future because as I mentioned above such statements can cause problems for others. --Tothwolf (talk) 17:38, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- You're email was exactly like your reply here. You like to make threats without actually making them: "such statements can cause problems". There is very little way your email cannot be interpreted as anything other than a threat of DRV because I am a new administrator. This is all I'll say on M.O.P.'s talk page as I came here to offer honest advice and you don't seem interested in it. If you'd like to discuss further with me, you know where to find my talk page.--v/r - TP 17:51, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- TParis, in no way did I ever make an implied threat. While I may be a little blunt and abrasive at times (or maybe I'm just an assume good faith in that you simply misremembered the facts I outlined above when you made this statement here. It is easy to forget a few details here or there and not everyone maintains detailed notes for this sort of stuff (I do, for a number of reasons, although I didn't always).]
As far as honest advice goes, this is a two-way street and I gave you my opinion as well. If you choose to ignore and discount it, so be it, but I'd suggest you be much more careful in the future and get your facts correct before you make the sort of statement you made above. Such statements can and do cause problems for other editors. Who knows, it may just be that you've not been around long enough yet to have witnessed people blocked or punished in some way because someone else didn't have their facts together. (If you do decide you want to continue this discussion, perhaps we should take this elsewhere.) --Tothwolf (talk) 18:14, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- TParis, in no way did I ever make an implied threat. While I may be a little blunt and abrasive at times (or maybe I'm just an
- You're email was exactly like your reply here. You like to make threats without actually making them: "such statements can cause problems". There is very little way your email cannot be interpreted as anything other than a threat of DRV because I am a new administrator. This is all I'll say on M.O.P.'s talk page as I came here to offer honest advice and you don't seem interested in it. If you'd like to discuss further with me, you know where to find my talk page.--v/r - TP 17:51, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
- TParis, while you are correct in that this talk page is not the place for this, because you brought this up here and you seem to value honest feedback, I'll address this here.
- Apologies to you, M.O.P., for addressing another editor on your talk page, but I just wanted to jump in this conversation. Tothwolf, with no prejudice against you at all I strongly suggest you take this in perspective. There have been two AFDs and an ANI report over this article. The way you treated me on my talk page threatening DRV because I was a new administrator was, as I feel it, borderline harassing. That you canvassed two other administrators to talk to me was also a below the belt move. In good faith, I relisted the debate and it has closed again as delete. I strongly suggest taking the advice at
Heaton Park Hebrew Congregation (2nd nomination)
Natami
Thought you might want to know
- (talk page stalker) That's just the same little ideological website which has been pushing for the "Martyrdom of St. Thomas Ball" attention since day one; no actual new coverage. --Orange Mike | Talk 14:34, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
- I guess I should also mention that the way I found it, was that someone tried submitting it to Fark.com last night. The admins did not greenlight it, so that particular submission/thread did not go to the main Fark page, appearing only to those with Totalfark accounts. The submission said something like "Wikipedia deletes burning man" (I'm not at a computer with TF access so I might not have that exactly right). It might, theoretically, based on the submission, be considered some sort of off-site canvassing (it was submitted with the asinine tag). For what its worth, the thread went uncommented, so I don't think that particular attempt garnered any support. I just wanted to drop a line in case that this was just the first drop of a large storm. If I see anything else, I'll drop a line here. Umbralcorax (talk) 15:58, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
Wiki ad
4chan raid
Thomas James Bell, new information
- (reliable sources. --Orange Mike | Talk 13:33, 30 June 2011 (UTC)]
Happy Birthday
![](//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3d/Nuvola_apps_cookie.svg/50px-Nuvola_apps_cookie.svg.png)
Just a happy Birthday message to you, Master of Puppets, from the Wikipedia Birthday Committee! Have a great day!
Monterey Bay (talk) 02:00, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
User:BillyMoses
Natami
AFD
- Your input is appreciated, though there's nothing I can do with it but take a note. If you'd like, you can weigh in at the next AfD(s), when/if they arise. Cheers, m.o.p 19:42, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
Dr Myko San – Health from Mushrooms
- I'd be happy to help! However, I'm currently away from a computer (typing this on my phone), so I'll have to check in on the 11th of July. Does that sound okay? m.o.p 15:40, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
- wp:NODEADLINE :-) LeadSongDog come howl! 15:48, 7 July 2011 (UTC)]
From a former Wikipedian
-71.234.90.0 (talk) 04:50, 8 July 2011 (UTC)
- Hey, thanks so much! I'm not sure who you are, but I really appreciate the sentiment. Hope all is well! m.o.p 20:49, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
Deletion review for Thomas James Ball
DRV comment
DRV
Could you please overturn the deletion of these files per File:Signature of Amitabh Bachchan.svg and File:Signature of Zakir Hussain.svg:
- File:Signature of Vishwanathan Anand.svg
- File:Signature of Vijay Mallya.svg
- File:Signature of Venkaiah Naidu.svg
- File:Signature of Sudeep Bandhopadhyay.svg
- File:Signature of Sonia Gandhi.svg
- File:Signature of Somnath Chatterjee.svg
- File:Signature of Ratan Tata.svg
- File:Signature of Kumar Mangalam Birla.svg
- File:Signature of Rajeev Shukla.svg
- File:Signature of Raj Babbar.svg
- File:Signature of Rahul Gandhi.svg
- File:Signature of Priyanka Vadra.svg
- File:Signature of P. T. Usha.svg
- File:Signature of Narendra Modi.svg
- File:Signature of Nandan Nilekani.svg
- File:Signature of Manish Tewari.svg
- File:Signature of Leander Paes.svg
- File:Signature of Lata Mangeshkar.svg
- File:Signature of Kumar Mangalam Birla.svg
- File:Signature of Karia Munda.svg
- File:Signature of Kapil Sibal.svg
- File:Signature of Kamal Nath.svg
- File:Signature of K. Kamraj.svg
- File:Signature of Jaya Bachchan.svg
- File:Signature of Gautam Gambhir.svg
- File:Signature of Brinda Karat.svg
- File:Signature of Bharatsinh Solanki.svg
- File:Signature of Bhairon Singh Shekhawat.svg
- File:Signature of B. K. Birla.svg
- File:Signature of Azim Premji.svg
- File:Signature of Arun Jaitely.svg
- File:Signature of Aishwarya Rai Bachchan.svg
- File:Signature of Abhishek Manu Singhvi.svg
- File:Signature of Abhishek Bachchan.svg
- File:Signature of Sting.svg
- File:Signature of Br. L. D. Lobo.svg
- File:Signature of VJ Rannvijay Singh Singha.svg
Diligent07Appears to be less than new. See User talk:Raoulduke25 where he states that this is a deliberate series of edits.
- Can you please help defend our collective effort of including the obscene middle-finger incident in the Cheney Mason article? It should be maintained in the article for public interest, etc. Please see the Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard#Cheney Mason discussion page and include your thoughts in favor of having the content remain in the interests of the public, etc
[8], [9] and even imputation that an editor has a connection with the person [10]. He has been on since April, and started off as being experienced on WP IMHO. Kindly keep an eye out please. Especially for any sign of a real "collective effort"? Such as [11]? Cheers. Collect (talk) 11:36, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
A cookie for you!
Keep up the good work defending the "Wiki" against genre warriors. Thanks for the help! talk) 17:31, 13 July 2011 (UTC)]
Hello. You have a new message at Lionelt's talk page.
Semi protection
OK, this thing with the militant atheism page is impossibleThese guys are incredible... I could dig up diffs to show you how they revert and wikilawyer even the SMALLEST attempt to move the article closer to NPOV. But that would take a long time for you to read. How about I show you this instead:
These guys are utterly without scruples. Who in their right mind would remove the NPOV dispute tag when heated arguments have been raging for weeks and NO moves whatsoever have been made to fix the article? Oh right, that would be someone in their right mind who is running a propaganda platform.
Anyway... I wanted to ask your advice on what to do. These guys are impossible to work with. Most of the other editors have given up and refuse to put this page on their watchlist. So what to do then? Request formal mediation? Articles for deletion? Something else?
Me and the other editors would like to see the page replaced with a disambiguation page... since literally ALL the content has already been covered (better) in Criticism of atheism, State atheism and New Atheism.
Obhave (talk) 13:21, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
- Hello User:Master of Puppets. I noticed this conversation and thought I might add that an NPOV policy. Obhave (talk) 13:11, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
- One more thing, m.o.p... my opponents are currently twisting your words to make it look as if you were scolding user:Mann_jess all along. Obhave (talk) 14:42, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
]
User:Jasper Deng page protection
- No worries! m.o.p 19:35, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
Is there a procedure for brutal uncollaborated editing with a destructive intent?I noticed that you recently had problems with proposed brutal editing by Peter S Strempel. Although he has been more sensible on your project in the end (possibly because of your administrator status?) he has not been so with regard to the astrology project pages to which he made a similar 'razor-promise'. Could you please see this Afd request which is one of three he made for major 'history of astrology' articles within the last hour, with a promise on another important page that any comment which is not refrences within 7 days will be removed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Babylonian_astrology
Is there anything that can be done about this officially to stop him wreaking havoc with content whilst he knows that the small group of editors providing content on these pages are already stretched to the limit trying to keep up with what needs to be done? I don't understand what drives some people to want to edit WP like this, but I think it is entriely the result of his ego-stress that when he proposed an edit for a passage, no one favoured it. Hope you can help or advise Zac Δ talk 01:15, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks! assume good faith; I believe that Peter is simply trying to help improve Wikipedia. While his methods may be lacking in some areas, he has displayed a pretty decent grasp on the policies he's trying to enforce.
- However, I agree that he shouldn't be making any changes if they're not discussed with the community first. Do you mind pulling up a few diffs of where he went against consensus? I'll approach him with your concern then. Thanks, m.o.p 03:57, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
- Actually there hasn't been any significant content dispute with Peter. He proposed a change to a section edit which wasn't a very good proposition and a few editors commented but without rancur, and I added a new section post immediately afterwards to point out the proiposed change would contradict with how the definition was given correctly at a later point in the article, outlining how I understood WP policy expected the main astrology article to pull its own content together, along with its summarised content from its daughter pages. Peter never responded to this but other editors started working in that direction immediately. Then, without further discussion or comment, Peter came back four days later to announce an intention to take his 'word razor' to all unreferenced assertions on the main astrology page, its sub-pages, and the portal page itself, to ensure his perceived disagreement was not circumvented in pages he viewed as content forks (I'm still not sure what he means by that). My response to that can be seen - a perfectly reasonable request for him to do what he felt was most productive, but consider that citation-tagging was the way to go. I also placed comments on his talk-page, which you can read if you are interested. That he erupted into a frenzy of AfD requests last night says something, I think, about his unwillingness to discuss and engage in other views. Most of his posts appear as new section declarations that don't appear to have considered the responses other editors give him.
- I've summarised this in the ANI request Dougweller started. The deletion requests were a step too far IMO, and I'm concerned that Peter would spring to such drastic measures in reaction to what he perceives to be me not allowing him to do what he wants to do. I'll be away for a few days so I'm tying up my WP activity now. That underlines my concern that he intends to take such drastic action with only one week's notice of intent. Thanks for looking into this. It would be good if something could be proposed to stop huge problems before they occur. 10:35, 22 July 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zachariel (talk • contribs
)
- One last request. I have just noticed that a related complaint, which is quite serious but has been sidetracked (deliberatly IMO) by Peter's suggestions that I have prevented him from doing what he wants, has been collapsed as "going nowehere" by an unsympathetic editor.
- "Its ben here several days and no admin has even sniffed at a block or ban - clearly you're not going to get admin action. So this should got to WP:DR or WP:RFCU if you want to take it further. I've boldly collapsed this, though I won't be surprised if someone uncollapses it"
- If you can find the time could you at least take a look at that related problem, and consider uncollapsing it, because the issues are serious and have gone beyond the point where Dispute resolution are appropriate. I will be away and have nothing more to add, but the problems identified still remain. Zac Δ talk 10:58, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
What to do?
- I've started a threat at ANI. Those AfDs are purely pointy and if no one objects I'll close them. talk) 06:11, 22 July 2011 (UTC)]
- Replied there. m.o.p 08:20, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
Talk Page on Militant Atheism - Introduction Section
- The update is appreciated, thanks very much. I've been dealing with life for the past two weeks, but I'll be back to close that discussion tonight or tomorrow. Thanks again, m.o.p 22:03, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
- Just bringing this up again, given the current state of this section. I believe the discussion will be archived automatically if not closed. I'm sorry if I sound pushy with you having a lot on your plate of late. If you would prefer, I could alert User:Fastily instead. Turnsalso (talk) 16:55, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
ITN
- I knew that tab I closed had unfinished business on it... thanks. 2008 University of Central Arkansas shootings is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.
The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2008 University of Central Arkansas shootings(2nd nomination) until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on good quality evidence, and our policies and guidelines.
Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article.
talk 14:00, 1 September 2011 (UTC)]
Hey
- Done! Both your userpage and the transcluded page are protected. Cheers, « ₣M₣ » 04:09, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Restored. m.o.p 05:21, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
]
User talk:Joshua the Independent
- My mistake - my block script auto-filled the edit summary. The block was issued due to the user's newfound will to disrupt Wikipedia intentionally. Their previous contributions are welcome, but this behaviour necessitates administrative action. m.o.p 21:52, 13 September 2011 (UTC)
Say hi to your imaginary girlfriend for me
- Well, I do love getting hate mail. Thanks for the laugh! Cheers, m.o.p 05:17, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
...further to the above lovely note, I weighed in on Calabe's talk page - there appears to be more confusion here than at first glance. bou·le·var·dier (talk) 05:19, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
Sorry to drop by again, but Silentsizzlingsausage (talk · contribs) would appear to be a duck. bou·le·var·dier (talk) 05:31, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
- No, it's not an issue! Thanks for the note, blocked. Cheers, WP:SPI. Thanks again, m.o.p 06:13, 14 September 2011 (UTC)]
I have to admit ...
- See the above section. The link is apparently a very subtle spam link that Calabe is removing, and socks are springing up to revert him. Swarm u / t 10:20, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
Moderation
- Alright, I'll make my way back. Thanks for letting me know! m.o.p 05:18, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
User:12.139.96.228
- To be honest, this case is perplexing. Half of this user's edits are constructive (mostly sourced), the other half aren't sourced - and the user won't reply to anybody. I'm also too busy to go through every edit and confirm whether or not it's good. I forgot about this for a while - I'll think about it tonight and figure something out for tomorrow. Thanks for reminding me! m.o.p 05:18, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
Whoops
- Whoops! Must not have been looking when I ran my block script. Thanks for letting me know, I've reblocked them for a far shorter (technically, an infinitely shorter) time. Cheers, m.o.p 22:58, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
Ashleyleggat404
- You're fully right in that the blanking policy covers indefinite blocks. I've removed the user's talk page rights as a result. Thanks again! m.o.p 00:28, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkback
Moderation
- If you look into this please consider whether Anupam's actions on the talk page and the entry itself are violations of WP:OWN. He's been driving off those he disagrees with by bludgening them to death with argument and heavily policing the entry claiming that there is a consensus written in stone despite many dissenting voices. Others have taken to simply calling him "the article's owner." I have had enough of this behavior personally and left him a message about it on his talk page. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:52, 20 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Dear User:Master of Puppets, the above user has misrepresented the occurrences at the article. I started another Introduction discussion at the article's talk page but User:Griswaldo has chosen to edit war over a second NPOV tag, despite the fact that one already exists in the article. He has done so despite the fact that the Introduction is being discussed in a peaceful manner at the talk page, in violation of your injunction: "We've only got consensus on this proposed versions (and loose consensus at that) - please do not attempt to subvert said consensus by making undiscussed changes." I have posted a message on his talk page about this behaviour. Nevertheless, I also do not wish to argue with the user personally and would prefer if you could go back to moderating the discussion between the two parties at the talk page. Thanks for taking the time to read this message. With regards, AnupamTalk 20:58, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- His "injunction?" Adding a neutrality tag to a specific sentence which an editor disputes the neutrality of is hardly "subverting the consensus by making undiscussed changes." Please stop wikilawyering to get your way. There is a growing consensus against your position regarding this article in general as well, despite your aggressive policing of the entry and the talk page. See ]
- I just thought that I would mention that User:Griswaldo, after seeing this message, just now decided to comment in the discussion rather than edit war against consensus further. Thanks for taking the time to read this message. With regards, AnupamTalk 21:51, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- "Edit war against consensus further?" My comment there has nothing to do with your message here. I've made three total edits to this entry ever. One was a copy edit in June, another was reverting an IP vandal, and the third was the revert of your Ownership edit. Please do not insinuate that I'm a edit warrior on this page. It is disingenuous.Griswaldo (talk) 22:08, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Thank you all for approaching me with your concerns.
- Obviously, I do not support Anupam - this is because I'm remaining a neutral third party, and, therefore, can't take sides. However, Griswaldo: please keep in mind that I did ask for all discussion to take place on the talk page. Why not just add your complaints to the talk page? It would have been much easier to discuss.
- I do agree that adding a NPOV tag, while slightly redundant, isn't horrible, but your intent seems to have been to stir discussion on that particular section, discussion that would be much more appropriate on the talk page.
- As for your and Snalwibma's concerns of Anupam trying to 'own' the article, I'm curious as to what you two mean; what 'delusions'?
- Also, Griswaldo, I don't think Anupam meant to insinuate you are an edit warrior (though this is just my take) - rather, they wanted to add the note that you've weighed in on discussion. m.o.p 22:10, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- your intent seems to have been to stir discussion on that particular section - No that's incorrect. I didn't add this tag, I simply reverted Anupam's attempt to own the page when he removed it. I agreed with JimWae's addition of the tag and found Anupam's removal to be unwarranted and a display of ownership.Griswaldo (talk) 22:16, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Note that, for all intents and purposes, reverting somebody is adding whatever is included in your edit, regardless of who put it there first. You revert a removal, you're agreeing with the edition you're reverting to - simple.
- And, if you agreed with JimWae, then we go back to what I was saying earlier - say so on the talk page. Two of you agree? Great! That's closer to consensus. But it means nothing if you express your support by reverting removals.
- Again, as I've asked multiple times, please stop saying that Anupam is owning anything without giving me evidence of it first. m.o.p 22:22, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Dear User:Master of Puppets, thank you for your reply to all of us. The reason User:Snalwibma stated that I was attempting to "own" the article was because I reverted an undiscussed removal from the article, which not only myself, but two other users objected to. In fact, two anonymous IP Addresses also reverted User:Snalwibma. I was open to compromise on the issue and stated that I would accept User:Turnsalso's compromise on the issue. I kindly request you to look at that discussion yourself and get an honest reading of it. Also, the only reason I removed the second NPOV tag was because there was already one present, which I did not remove. I only reverted the addition of a second NPOV tag once and even explained myself on the talk page. When I went to the talk page, I found rude accusations and an anti-collaborative spirit, despite the fact that I have been nothing but polite. I hope this helps. With regards, AnupamTalk 22:25, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry - I know I should not rise to the bait, but I have to object to the comment "The reason User:Snalwibma stated that I was attempting to 'own' the article was because I reverted an undiscussed removal ..." How dare Anupam presume to know what is in my mind! The reason I describe Anupam's attitude to the article as one of ownership is because that is how s/he behaves - "policing" every edit, pronouncing on whether s/he "accepts" or "rejects" it, peremptorily reverting anything s/he does not like, without discussion, presuming to know others' motives, and judging them as fit/unfit to contribute to the article. This has been going on for weeks, if not months. It is impossible to discuss the content of the article, let alone improve the text, because everything is filtered through the approval/disapproval of the article's self-appointed guardian, Anupam. tendentious or disruptive when they bring up certain issues, even when they are clearly in the majority. That is not collaborative. I stopped editing the article heavily because of those issues. I don't have any delusions that my opinion is worth more than anyone else's here, but I would think that the large number of established, experienced editors who are all saying there's a problem, would indicate something. — Jess· Δ♥ 19:45, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
Please reconsider your full protection of Militant atheist
- In case you didn't notice, I asked that people think twice about pointing fingers at each other. If you'd like to start a sockpuppetry investigation, let me know, and we can take that avenue - however, don't accuse other editors of ownership without substance. If you think Anupam is trying to own things, give me something. Diffs, edits, anything. I'll check it out for you, but right now, baseless accusations are not what I'm looking for.
- Also, notice that I protected the article with your edit being the last one. How is that validating the very person you've been reverting?
- The protection will stay until consensus is reached. m.o.p 22:19, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Because protection is what he wants quite clearly. He's stalling conversation and shouting down people on the talk page, where, if you have a look, you'll see he's clearly in the minority. Because of your "injunction" as he calls it, he also claims that no matter how many people agree with a certain change it is illegitimate. I'll be happy to gather some diffs, but my first message to you above was to please look into the situation carefully before acting on it. Did you do that and come to the conclusion that I'm wrong or did you not head that request? Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:29, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Yes, I did heed your request. I don't see any ownership behaviour from Anupam, though, being involved in multiple disputes, I didn't have the time to read every last word on the page, so you're free to provide evidence. However, from what I can see, Anupam's last proposal was supported by the majority - not to count (and I don't mean to imply that I decide where consensus lies by looking at pure numbers), but from looking at pure supports versus opposes, eight people (nine including Anupam) support while four oppose. How does that make Anupam's views a minority? m.o.p 22:37, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- It depends on what view you are talking about. The current RFC on the introduction is something that most people don't even want to engage because most people think this very entry should be split up and integrated into other entries. I reluctantly engaged the RfC just now myself. The last time the more serious question about the entry was asked, several of the new commentators were not around, and there was "no consensus" found because the opposing side was chalk full of SPAs and editors with a view that is outright hostile to atheism (which is a legitimate view to hold, but it is a minority view). Let me find you some diffs.Griswaldo (talk) 22:43, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- User:Griswaldo, that is exactly the issue: you do not want to collaborate with other users on the talk page, which is why you were reluctant to participate in the current RfC. Moreover, there were several SPA's on the side of the opposition as well, including WP:NPOV. In addition, the split was again recently discussed and the specific case to do so was refuted by several editors. As such, there was no consensus for it. I hope this helps. With regards, AnupamTalk 22:52, 20 September 2011 (UTC)]
- No. You are trying to write an article that violates WP:SYNTH because it conflates New Atheism with oppressive communist regimes and their histories of violence. That's hardly NPOV. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:59, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
Hi m.o.p., as someone who occasionally looks at that page (and then washes my hands), I just want to compliment you as having done the right thing in full protecting. By way of unsolicited advice to the involved editors, the best thing they could do is to allow The Wrong Version to sit there a good long time, and devote their energy to other things. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:54, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
]
Yes, please reconsider your full protection of
WP:RS—deserve protection against misinformed reverts. Thanks Geremia (talk) 16:12, 22 September 2011 (UTC)]
Diffs of
- I'm not really sure where the ownership is here; nowhere in our policies is it stated that a user can't promote their RFC on the subject talk page. If it's ongoing and they'd like to move it to the forefront, what's wrong with that? More so, some of your summaries seem inaccurate - in that last diff, you state that Anupam is removing images, yet I only see Anupam adding an image (the peace dove that's at the top of the page). Also, you use repeating examples. m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Well clearly the last diff was wrong. Thanks for the vote of confidence. There are no repeat examples nor inaccurate summaries, just a mistaken copy paste of the second to last diff to the last position as well. I have fixed it. Cheers.
- Using "consensus claims from one RfC to reject changes made to article content
- Same as above. Using the "consensus" bludgeon to get his way. Please note that clearly we ought to edit by consensus, but this consensus is highly disputed, and IMO not there in the first place. The real problem is the way in which Anupam decides to use it like a trump card to remove changes he doesn't like. Ask yourself if all changes post "consensus" have been removed or just the ones Anupam decided he wanted removed.
Master of Puppets do you need more diffs or is this enough?Griswaldo (talk) 23:31, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Well I need more diffs because your "evidence" so far looks like a desperate attempt to incriminate an editor who has been very successful in persuading his colleagues to adopt his proposals. Anupam has presented his proposals, argued the merits and persuaded many editors. Anything you want to tell us about why you're having difficulty doing likewise? – Lionel (talk) 06:02, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- I don't see this is as conclusive evidence, either. And, it should be said - if people are editing against established consensus, then people are free to re-evaluate consensus, but edit-warring against it doesn't make much sense. m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- If not ownership then what is this - [28], [29], [30]? He removes two RfCs started by another editor, and revolving around the question that many of us actually find to be the fundamental question to answer regarding the entry. Then he edit wars to keep these RfCs off the page, claiming again to have some sort of authority stemming from your prior actions. If you aren't willing to do something here I'm going to another administrator and I'm going to ask for your initial "consensus," your strong arm administrating, and your lack of action here to be reviewed as well. Thanks.Griswaldo (talk) 17:08, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Anupam has already apologized for reverting those RfC additions, and we've moved past it. He also didn't claim to have administrative authority, but was waiting for my approval. We've cleared this up, it's not an issue. So no, I'm not going to take any action (as I've said here and on ANI). Now, if you'd like to threaten me and tell me that, since I'm not cooperating with your wills, you'll go to another administrator, that's fine - as I've said, you can seek outside opinions - but remember to keep a cool head, because borderline threats are not appreciated. m.o.p 21:49, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- It was not a threat, "borderline" or otherwise. You are conveniently ignoring a growing number of voices who are all saying the same thing - there is an ownership problem here. The deletion issue has not been "cleared up" as far as I'm concerned. Whenever it is mentioned Anupam insists that he did not "unilaterally" delete the RfCs from the page, which is a blatant distortion, since that is exactly what he did. He continues to act as a policeman at the page, and yes he does continue to cite your authority. Did you bother to read the many diffs I posted above in the second two sections? I will quote three random examples from those I provided for you if you want.
- When he first deleted the two RfCs he wrote: "rv - see discussion with reviewing administrator; approval needed to start another RfC while one is already occurring."
- When he deleted a fact tag that JimWae put into the lede: "rv excessive tagging per talk; tag is already extant in header; do not subvert previous consensus but gain consensus for potential additions per administrative notice"
- When he rejected another recent change to the entry: "accepted edits by User:Jkhwiki; rv removal of longstanding referenced content - see discussion on talk page and gain consensus for action per administrative injunction"
- In talk page comments and in edit summaries he consistently does the same thing. He refers to your authority, either directly or indirectly through your "notice" or your "injunction" as he likes to call it. I never said the claimed to have administrative authority, I said that he's using your authority, by way of your comments, such as the closure of the AfD to bully people. Do you deny that he citing your comments, because if you do then I must have fabricated those quotes. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:32, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
If you say "If you don't do A, then I'm going to go and do B", that's a threat. Anyway, that's not the issue - we've already covered all the issues with the RfC reverting, and Anupam won't do it again. Why keep raising hell over it?
We've already covered everything you bring up. And no, I'm not denying anything. I'm just saying this, and it's very simple: I don't think there has been any blatant ownership here. That's my judgment. If you disagree, again, feel free to raise this with another administrator or on ANI. m.o.p 23:12, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Regarding the new RFC, I still think there has not passed yet too much time since the last discussion about splitting the article. As far as I knew, repeating these sorts of debates (like splitting, deleting, renaming) before a larger amount of time has passed (like 6 months) is usually discouraged. And as others have also argued earlier, even if having multiple RFCs is possible, it's not very useful, and the new RFC seems to discourage further discussion about improving the lead introduction. So preventing multiple RFCs (and also a RFC about an issue debated not too long ago) does not look to me like evidence of bad faith intentions. Cody7777777 (talk) 21:37, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Cody, would you mind linking me to the previous RfC on splitting? m.o.p 21:49, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- The previous attempt to split the article can be found here. Cody7777777 (talk) 21:55, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Response
Yes, it does. Thanks, m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Dear User:Master of Puppets, I just noticed that User:Binksternet started another RfC while a current one is occurring. Is this appropriate? I reverted the addition motioning for one until your response is confirmed. If it is acceptable, then I apologize and will revert my edit. I look forward to your response. With regards, AnupamTalk 15:14, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'll form my reply on ANI. m.o.p 17:12, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- When you do please take into account my comment just above, regarding Anupam's edit warring to remove talk page comments (namely these RfCs) posted by others on the talk page. If you still don't think this is WP:OWN then clearly other administrators are needed here.Griswaldo (talk) 17:15, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Dear User:Griswaldo, how is going to a neutral mediator to address the issue owning the article? I acknowledge that the article is in dispute and as a result, I am asking an administrator for advice in this matter, NOT handling things on my own, as you have done by edit warring. Your WP:OWN allegations have not only been dismissed by this administrator, but by several other users, including, User:Lionelt, User:Cody7777777 and User:NYyankees51. Thanks, AnupamTalk 17:27, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- In reply to Griswaldo: reverting the RfCs was a mistake, but we've cleared that up now. As Anupam has stated at ANI, the intent was not to discourage discussion. If you think my judgment is compromised, you're welcome to seek another administrator's input. m.o.p 21:04, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- And as further evidence of WP:OWN, see this. Anupam adds a comment to everything that anyone else says, as if he/she is the owner of the article and everyone else is a subordinate contributor. This particular instance is pretty benign (although it clutters up the talk page with an unnecessary comment that merely says "I agree"), but I do think that Anupam at least needs to learn how to avoid giving the appearance of thinking he/she owns the article, and to desist from chipping in and saying the same thing over and over again, which almost makes meaningful discussion impossible! SNALWIBMA ( talk - contribs ) 17:31, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- While the input is appreciated, as I've said before, making allegations of ownership without hard evidence isn't going to get us anywhere. Anupam is not stopping others from discussing changes or forming consensus, and that's all that matters - refactoring the talk page or commenting on an issue is not against policy, and I'm not going to tell someone to stop editing because it "looks" like they're doing something wrong. As said above, you're welcome to request another administrator's insight if you wish. m.o.p 21:04, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
COIHi
you've helped me out before, with a conflict of interest problem, so having much more experience than me on wikipedia, I thought I would be bold enough to ask again for help.
Similar problem to last, User_talk:Hobbycraft is editing the HOBBYCRAFT article and making changes that aren't citably right. I think the user name suggest and history suggests a conflict of interest case.
Can you please, speak to them addressing this issue.
Thank you very much for your help.
Markcoulter50 (talk) 22:27, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
- I've blocked that user for username violations. Thanks a lot for letting me know! Keep up the great work, m.o.p 23:00, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkbackcausa sui (talk) 18:47, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Hello. You have a new message at causa sui's talk page. causa sui (talk) 20:54, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Problematic editing on militant atheism
- I hope it's not considered defamatory to repeat the final line: "I merely present the diffs above, and let others draw their own conclusions. Is this a duck? Does it quack? You decide.". Unfortunately, the concerned community no longer has that opportunity. What did you decide on their behalf? Does this duck quack, or not? bobrayner (talk) 15:42, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- It's not your wording, it's the very idea of it. Going to what's allegorically a public place and shouting, "Hey, everybody, this man is a criminal!" is one step below blatantly forming a lynch mob. As I've said, I have no problem with your wording or evidence, just your location of choice. Wikipedia is not, unfortunately, a democracy - letting others draw their conclusions and voice their opinions is not how a sockpuppet investigation works.
- So yes, please don't go restoring any of that section. We're not discussing editors, we're discussing the content they produce. Anything else has a sub-board to deal with it (like WP:SPI).
- Hopefully that clears things up! I'll be happy to answer any more questions should you have them. Cheers, m.o.p 15:48, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Hello User:Bobrayner, I noticed the section you created on the militant atheism talk page. If you do feel the way you do about User:Turnsalso and the anonymous IP Addresses, you can take this up with WP:SPI. Thanks, AnupamTalk 15:52, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
Are you kidding my MoP? Above your write: Going to what's allegorically a public place and shouting, "Hey, everybody, this man is a criminal!" is one step below blatantly forming a lynch mob. AND We're not discussing editors, we're discussing the content they produce. Yet you call this edit by Lionelt "good faith," at WQA? MoP, I would not ask you to agree with me or to like me, but can I please ask you not to insult me with these double standards.Griswaldo (talk) 16:18, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
]
- Griswaldo, I mean no offense when I say this, but I'd appreciate it if you stayed out of discussions which didn't involve you. Also, please don't put words in my mouth. Thanks, m.o.p 16:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I have not put words in your mouth. You said that you would assume good faith about Lionel. If you "assume good faith" it means you assume his edits were in "good faith." If you did not intend that meaning I suggest you reconsider what you wrote. Also, if you want me to "stay out of discussion which don't involve me" then I suggest your first order of business should be to do the same thing yourself. You decided to post at WQA, when there was no mention of you or anything you've done in that thread. Once again, I expect people not to practice double standards. So as long as you cannot show me that you will treat me as you ask to be treated yourself, I will not oblige you. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:21, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Please stop bickering. I'm not quite sure what you're trying to accomplish here. I've already explained what I meant when I said assuming good faith, but I'll explain again: I assumed that Lionelt was not hounding or deliberately haranguing you. I did not say, at any point, that his edit content was good faith, and I've told him not to edit like that again. So please stop accusing me of saying things I haven't said.
- Also, I posted in WQA because, as a mediator in this case and as an administrator, it's my duty to weigh in on administrative noticeboards, especially when the case is an ongoing discussion I've been participating in for three months. It is not your duty to weigh in on discussions on my talk page that don't concern you. I hope the distinction is clear here. m.o.p 20:33, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I think you are confused about something. Content is never good faith. "Editing in good faith" and "good faith edits" refers to the intent of the editor always. It has nothing to do with content. My assumption that you also felt the edits were appropriate comes from the fact that you did not say they weren't appropriate and clearly feel that his intentions were good. If you'd like to set the record straight on that issue you still can. I've asked you twice now to discuss the actual edits that are the focal point of the thread. Also, I moved the thread to ANI, per the suggestion of the editor who marked it "resolved."Griswaldo (talk) 20:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- See Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#User:Lionelt_--_following_my_past_edits_to_drum_up_support_against_me. FYI, I copy pasted the entire discussion because both you and Collect were critical of my initial post and I thought it was the right thing to do to preserve that criticism in the record of the conversation. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:43, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- In reply to your first paragraph: I'm going to give up now, as it seems you're misunderstanding most of what I type, but you're the one who stated that the content was not good faith (as you said, not appropriate), and I agreed - I referred to his intent in replying to you, and said that I assumed good faith in his motives, not his replies. I can't really say that in a clearer way, so my apologies if it's hard to understand. Also, as I've already said, I've left a message for Lionelt about his edits, so clearly I do not feel they're appropriate. m.o.p 20:57, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I, too, find these double standards vexing.
- Which diff is defamatory?
- I had hitherto thought that people on the article talkpage might like to be aware of potential problems with votestacking on the article talkpage (and 3rr evasion, of course). Would it be permitted to add a link to that list of diffs when it's in a different place, or would you consider that defamatory too? bobrayner (talk) 16:23, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- As I said, the information is not defamatory, but the way it's presented is - we have specific processes available to pursue should one feel there are sockpuppets about. However, calling someone out with the intent of informing the community is overstepping your authority and damaging to the accused's character. Also, there's no way a community discussion about whether or not one editor is a sockpuppet can end in anything other than a sockpuppet investigation anyway.
- So, in closing, please don't bring issues like this to the talk page. If you're concerned about votestacking, take it to the appropriate venue - if your concerns are validated, we'll take measures against said puppets. Cheers, m.o.p 16:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I am very disappointed that it's no longer permissible to raise problems with article-editing on the article talkpage. Previous concerns about sockpuppetry were simply ignored; the difference this time is that it's backed by lots of diffs.
- I'm fairly confident that the people concerned have sufficient technical nous to make checkuser draw a blank. And, let's be entirely honest, within minutes of me creating an SPI, an admin of the right persuasion will be getting an email suggesting that an SPI needs their attention. And SPI does not see offsite coordination by a facebook group &c. Finally, any null result at SPI will be used at the article in much the same way as previous administrative decisions have been. So, I do not believe that an SPI will improve either the article, or the encyclopædia as a whole. bobrayner (talk) 17:08, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- If you don't think the pre-existing methods set in place for situations like this are sufficient, you can always raise that concern at the village pump or suggest a policy revision - however, SPI is the venue for these requests, and the only venue. The talk page can not substitute. m.o.p 17:10, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
76.228.226.122Thank you for blocking the anonymous user, who is being counterproductive and rude. (although I think the block should have been one week, but I guess ok at least)
Can you also please try to hide the edit summaries of these edits if possible?
This and
this
Thanks and regards, talk 05:04, 26 September 2011 (UTC)]
- I'll extend the block if this behaviour continues after the block period is over.
- As for the edit summaries, those don't warrant hiding - I apologize for their content, but they don't meet the criteria of what I should remove. It's best just to ignore them for now. Cheers, m.o.p 05:13, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
- Okay, good to know, if I did nothing wrong, no permanent block will be enforced. The IP does not volunteer on WP as an admin and so the disproportionately out of line comments and threats of his should be ignored. --talk 05:19, 26 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Sounds good. We only hide extremely offensive revisions; milder ones stay in the edit history. Thanks again for bringing this to our attention! Cheers, m.o.p 05:31, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
Email
Jasper Deng (talk) 05:29, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
- Reading. talk) 06:00, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Bad Girls Club
- I've blocked Junebea for 2 days for disregarding warnings. m.o.p 20:30, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks for helping :) Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 21:06, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkback
- And again.Griswaldo (talk) 04:24, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
- And again ... but maybe the last. You can settle this question once and for all. See the talk page.Griswaldo (talk) 06:09, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'm sure I'm not alone in wanting to hear your replies to the last responses posed to you at that page. IMO, I don't know why you went down the road you did, but as far as I can tell you're blatantly misrepesenting facts about your own actions when people are brining concerns to you. You might think that since you closed the RfC the matter is settled, but it is not. You're actions have not made my life any more pleasant in the last few days vis-a-vis trying to deal with Anupam's disruption and I think you owe us all answers. So please revisit this thread and deal with the open questions. Thanks.Griswaldo (talk) 02:19, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
- I invite you to stop asking the same question again and again. This would be appreciated. Thanks, m.o.p 02:33, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Block question
- No, I just block obviously bad-faith accounts on sight. Advertising/spam accounts fall under that category. m.o.p 00:37, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Thanks
- Thank you. I've unlocked the article for whatever may come. If I'm needed again, feel free to let me know. Thanks for the kind words again, m.o.p 05:12, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
reminder
- We're still waiting to see if the user understands COI policy (per Ed's question). I'll prod the user and see if they'll answer. talk) 19:20, 30 September 2011 (UTC)]
Nextel logo deleted
- Mmm, good point. What's the link to the logo in question? m.o.p 01:33, 2 October 2011 (UTC)
Support of Sage City SymphonyYou deleted this page before I had a chance to go back in and add the stuff that you wanted to see, including the links within Wikipedia to important composers such as Lou Callabro (who started this orchestra and cites it in his Wikipedia page) and Susan Hurley whose work we premiered (SC is also mentioned in her Wikipedia entry). (Let alone links about the works we have performed.) And we have a web site at www.sagecitysymphony.org, have existed for over 35 yrs and are a significant cultural resource in the Bennington area such that we receive grants from local, statewide and national foundations.
I broke my wrist last weekend and am doing one-handed pecking so it'll take me a few days to get that loaded in. We are going out for a bit now, but I would appreciate your undeleting the page so that I don't have to re-invent the starting part when I go back in tomorrow to add links. Or delete it entirely so that I can start fresh - at this point either would work as long as I can start some serious work on it tomorrow. I am the webmaster by the way, so I do have access to content and more links.
Thank you, Celia Murray — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.228.127.119 (talk) 14:22, 1 October 2011 (UTC)
- It looks like fixed everything up. Best of luck, m.o.p 01:35, 2 October 2011 (UTC)]
Reply on Deterence's talk page
MA
After the beating you took you deserve a cold one--on me! Thanks for being fair and balanced – Lionel (talk) 03:55, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
- Hey, thanks! Glad to help out. :) m.o.p 03:56, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
Deletion of Mau5trap Recordings
--neocharles (talk) 07:33, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Existence does not equal notability - the subject has to be notable to get a Wikipedia page. m.o.p 12:05, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
Questoin re: AIV
- Addendum, actually, I read it very clearly in WP:VANDNOT: "Uploading or using material on Wikipedia in violation of Wikipedia's copyright policies is prohibited, but is not vandalism unless the user does so maliciously or fails to heed warnings." So if a person fails to heed warnings it is vandalism. My mistake here was that I only warned once. --Muhandes (talk) 12:29, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Eh, technically it is vandalism, but the user seems to be trying to improve the Wikipedia - that desire to help is misplaced in this case, as they seem to think that using copyrighted content is actually better. Weird. For most cases, yes, you should report copyvio to AIV - as long as they've been warned sufficiently. m.o.p 12:42, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- OK, he now did it again and the time stamp is after your last warning. Is it vandalism now? --Muhandes (talk) 12:32, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Yeah, if they're outright ignoring warnings. I've blocked for three days. m.o.p 12:40, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
Classmusic
- Oh, I know. But if somebody's lied to my face about using another account - and to other editors working on the article - I'm not about to let them go without a repercussion or two. I'd like Almost-instinct and Voceditnore to look over the article and fix up anything shifty. Also, I'd like Classmusic to respond to my warning, instead of blanking it and ignoring like they have to the above-named editors.
- So, in short, I know that COI doesn't bar editing, but it's enough of a concern that, given the user's recent behaviour, I'll stop them from doing anything until we've figured things out. This isn't too rouge-y, is it? I didn't hear that. Perhaps he is unaware of the sockpuppet investigation findings. Anyhow it seems that DeltaQuad has also blocked the Classmusic account. I left a note on his page about using the unblock template, but re-iterated that he needs to read the COI and Autobiography guidelines and stick to them scrupulously, if he gets unblocked. In the Opera and Classical Music WikiProjects, we get a lot of articles for performers, ensembles, etc. created by their agents and PR people, and often themselves. In my experience, the best I can hope for after one of these tussles is that they'll edit their article according to the guidelines in future. I have yet to find a single one who has ever contributed anything else to Wikipedia. Their only interest in the project is as a PR tool. Having said that, at least it results (after much red-pencilling from other editors) in one new article on a notable subject that we didn't have before and in a small way redresses the pop culture systemic bias here. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 13:40, 5 October 2011 (UTC)]
Danish election
- Never mind, it's been pulled by another admin. All the best, Jenks24 (talk) 11:03, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry about that! I was busy all day and didn't get your message until now. Thanks for letting me know, though! Cheers, m.o.p 19:51, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
3RRHey there! :)
Well WP:CRYSTAL has wined down, however, there's currently a
The Bad Girls Club (season 7). I have notified the two users [32], [33]. The evidence can be found here. They are having an edit-conflict on how the "Duration of cast" should be presented. Since there's no rules regarding anything like that, and it was made up about a year ago, I couldn't warned them to stop their e/c with anything except the 3RR rule. Maybe they need an admin to tell them to stop, so that's why I came to you :) Thanks, Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 01:17, 6 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Temporary page protection requested. Calabe1992 (talk) 01:29, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
Natami
Thought you might want to know
- (talk page stalker) That's just the same little ideological website which has been pushing for the "Martyrdom of St. Thomas Ball" attention since day one; no actual new coverage. --Orange Mike | Talk 14:34, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
- I guess I should also mention that the way I found it, was that someone tried submitting it to Fark.com last night. The admins did not greenlight it, so that particular submission/thread did not go to the main Fark page, appearing only to those with Totalfark accounts. The submission said something like "Wikipedia deletes burning man" (I'm not at a computer with TF access so I might not have that exactly right). It might, theoretically, based on the submission, be considered some sort of off-site canvassing (it was submitted with the asinine tag). For what its worth, the thread went uncommented, so I don't think that particular attempt garnered any support. I just wanted to drop a line in case that this was just the first drop of a large storm. If I see anything else, I'll drop a line here. Umbralcorax (talk) 15:58, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
Wiki ad
4chan raid
Thomas James Bell, new information
- (reliable sources. --Orange Mike | Talk 13:33, 30 June 2011 (UTC)]
Happy Birthday
![](//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3d/Nuvola_apps_cookie.svg/50px-Nuvola_apps_cookie.svg.png)
Just a happy Birthday message to you, Master of Puppets, from the Wikipedia Birthday Committee! Have a great day!
Monterey Bay (talk) 02:00, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
User:BillyMoses
Natami
AFD
- Your input is appreciated, though there's nothing I can do with it but take a note. If you'd like, you can weigh in at the next AfD(s), when/if they arise. Cheers, m.o.p 19:42, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
Dr Myko San – Health from Mushrooms
- I'd be happy to help! However, I'm currently away from a computer (typing this on my phone), so I'll have to check in on the 11th of July. Does that sound okay? m.o.p 15:40, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
- wp:NODEADLINE :-) LeadSongDog come howl! 15:48, 7 July 2011 (UTC)]
From a former Wikipedian
-71.234.90.0 (talk) 04:50, 8 July 2011 (UTC)
- Hey, thanks so much! I'm not sure who you are, but I really appreciate the sentiment. Hope all is well! m.o.p 20:49, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
Deletion review for Thomas James Ball
DRV comment
DRV
Could you please overturn the deletion of these files per File:Signature of Amitabh Bachchan.svg and File:Signature of Zakir Hussain.svg:
- File:Signature of Vishwanathan Anand.svg
- File:Signature of Vijay Mallya.svg
- File:Signature of Venkaiah Naidu.svg
- File:Signature of Sudeep Bandhopadhyay.svg
- File:Signature of Sonia Gandhi.svg
- File:Signature of Somnath Chatterjee.svg
- File:Signature of Ratan Tata.svg
- File:Signature of Kumar Mangalam Birla.svg
- File:Signature of Rajeev Shukla.svg
- File:Signature of Raj Babbar.svg
- File:Signature of Rahul Gandhi.svg
- File:Signature of Priyanka Vadra.svg
- File:Signature of P. T. Usha.svg
- File:Signature of Narendra Modi.svg
- File:Signature of Nandan Nilekani.svg
- File:Signature of Manish Tewari.svg
- File:Signature of Leander Paes.svg
- File:Signature of Lata Mangeshkar.svg
- File:Signature of Kumar Mangalam Birla.svg
- File:Signature of Karia Munda.svg
- File:Signature of Kapil Sibal.svg
- File:Signature of Kamal Nath.svg
- File:Signature of K. Kamraj.svg
- File:Signature of Jaya Bachchan.svg
- File:Signature of Gautam Gambhir.svg
- File:Signature of Brinda Karat.svg
- File:Signature of Bharatsinh Solanki.svg
- File:Signature of Bhairon Singh Shekhawat.svg
- File:Signature of B. K. Birla.svg
- File:Signature of Azim Premji.svg
- File:Signature of Arun Jaitely.svg
- File:Signature of Aishwarya Rai Bachchan.svg
- File:Signature of Abhishek Manu Singhvi.svg
- File:Signature of Abhishek Bachchan.svg
- File:Signature of Sting.svg
- File:Signature of Br. L. D. Lobo.svg
- File:Signature of VJ Rannvijay Singh Singha.svg
Diligent07Appears to be less than new. See User talk:Raoulduke25 where he states that this is a deliberate series of edits.
- Can you please help defend our collective effort of including the obscene middle-finger incident in the Cheney Mason article? It should be maintained in the article for public interest, etc. Please see the Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard#Cheney Mason discussion page and include your thoughts in favor of having the content remain in the interests of the public, etc
[8], [9] and even imputation that an editor has a connection with the person [10]. He has been on since April, and started off as being experienced on WP IMHO. Kindly keep an eye out please. Especially for any sign of a real "collective effort"? Such as [11]? Cheers. Collect (talk) 11:36, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
A cookie for you!
Keep up the good work defending the "Wiki" against genre warriors. Thanks for the help! talk) 17:31, 13 July 2011 (UTC)]
Hello. You have a new message at Lionelt's talk page.
Semi protection
OK, this thing with the militant atheism page is impossibleThese guys are incredible... I could dig up diffs to show you how they revert and wikilawyer even the SMALLEST attempt to move the article closer to NPOV. But that would take a long time for you to read. How about I show you this instead:
These guys are utterly without scruples. Who in their right mind would remove the NPOV dispute tag when heated arguments have been raging for weeks and NO moves whatsoever have been made to fix the article? Oh right, that would be someone in their right mind who is running a propaganda platform.
Anyway... I wanted to ask your advice on what to do. These guys are impossible to work with. Most of the other editors have given up and refuse to put this page on their watchlist. So what to do then? Request formal mediation? Articles for deletion? Something else?
Me and the other editors would like to see the page replaced with a disambiguation page... since literally ALL the content has already been covered (better) in Criticism of atheism, State atheism and New Atheism.
Obhave (talk) 13:21, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
- Hello User:Master of Puppets. I noticed this conversation and thought I might add that an NPOV policy. Obhave (talk) 13:11, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
- One more thing, m.o.p... my opponents are currently twisting your words to make it look as if you were scolding user:Mann_jess all along. Obhave (talk) 14:42, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
]
User:Jasper Deng page protection
- No worries! m.o.p 19:35, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
Is there a procedure for brutal uncollaborated editing with a destructive intent?I noticed that you recently had problems with proposed brutal editing by Peter S Strempel. Although he has been more sensible on your project in the end (possibly because of your administrator status?) he has not been so with regard to the astrology project pages to which he made a similar 'razor-promise'. Could you please see this Afd request which is one of three he made for major 'history of astrology' articles within the last hour, with a promise on another important page that any comment which is not refrences within 7 days will be removed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Babylonian_astrology
Is there anything that can be done about this officially to stop him wreaking havoc with content whilst he knows that the small group of editors providing content on these pages are already stretched to the limit trying to keep up with what needs to be done? I don't understand what drives some people to want to edit WP like this, but I think it is entriely the result of his ego-stress that when he proposed an edit for a passage, no one favoured it. Hope you can help or advise Zac Δ talk 01:15, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks! assume good faith; I believe that Peter is simply trying to help improve Wikipedia. While his methods may be lacking in some areas, he has displayed a pretty decent grasp on the policies he's trying to enforce.
- However, I agree that he shouldn't be making any changes if they're not discussed with the community first. Do you mind pulling up a few diffs of where he went against consensus? I'll approach him with your concern then. Thanks, m.o.p 03:57, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
- Actually there hasn't been any significant content dispute with Peter. He proposed a change to a section edit which wasn't a very good proposition and a few editors commented but without rancur, and I added a new section post immediately afterwards to point out the proiposed change would contradict with how the definition was given correctly at a later point in the article, outlining how I understood WP policy expected the main astrology article to pull its own content together, along with its summarised content from its daughter pages. Peter never responded to this but other editors started working in that direction immediately. Then, without further discussion or comment, Peter came back four days later to announce an intention to take his 'word razor' to all unreferenced assertions on the main astrology page, its sub-pages, and the portal page itself, to ensure his perceived disagreement was not circumvented in pages he viewed as content forks (I'm still not sure what he means by that). My response to that can be seen - a perfectly reasonable request for him to do what he felt was most productive, but consider that citation-tagging was the way to go. I also placed comments on his talk-page, which you can read if you are interested. That he erupted into a frenzy of AfD requests last night says something, I think, about his unwillingness to discuss and engage in other views. Most of his posts appear as new section declarations that don't appear to have considered the responses other editors give him.
- I've summarised this in the ANI request Dougweller started. The deletion requests were a step too far IMO, and I'm concerned that Peter would spring to such drastic measures in reaction to what he perceives to be me not allowing him to do what he wants to do. I'll be away for a few days so I'm tying up my WP activity now. That underlines my concern that he intends to take such drastic action with only one week's notice of intent. Thanks for looking into this. It would be good if something could be proposed to stop huge problems before they occur. 10:35, 22 July 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zachariel (talk • contribs
)
- One last request. I have just noticed that a related complaint, which is quite serious but has been sidetracked (deliberatly IMO) by Peter's suggestions that I have prevented him from doing what he wants, has been collapsed as "going nowehere" by an unsympathetic editor.
- "Its ben here several days and no admin has even sniffed at a block or ban - clearly you're not going to get admin action. So this should got to WP:DR or WP:RFCU if you want to take it further. I've boldly collapsed this, though I won't be surprised if someone uncollapses it"
- If you can find the time could you at least take a look at that related problem, and consider uncollapsing it, because the issues are serious and have gone beyond the point where Dispute resolution are appropriate. I will be away and have nothing more to add, but the problems identified still remain. Zac Δ talk 10:58, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
What to do?
- I've started a threat at ANI. Those AfDs are purely pointy and if no one objects I'll close them. talk) 06:11, 22 July 2011 (UTC)]
- Replied there. m.o.p 08:20, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
Talk Page on Militant Atheism - Introduction Section
- The update is appreciated, thanks very much. I've been dealing with life for the past two weeks, but I'll be back to close that discussion tonight or tomorrow. Thanks again, m.o.p 22:03, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
- Just bringing this up again, given the current state of this section. I believe the discussion will be archived automatically if not closed. I'm sorry if I sound pushy with you having a lot on your plate of late. If you would prefer, I could alert User:Fastily instead. Turnsalso (talk) 16:55, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
ITN
- I knew that tab I closed had unfinished business on it... thanks. 2008 University of Central Arkansas shootings is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.
The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2008 University of Central Arkansas shootings(2nd nomination) until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on good quality evidence, and our policies and guidelines.
Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article.
talk 14:00, 1 September 2011 (UTC)]
Hey
- Done! Both your userpage and the transcluded page are protected. Cheers, « ₣M₣ » 04:09, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Restored. m.o.p 05:21, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
]
User talk:Joshua the Independent
- My mistake - my block script auto-filled the edit summary. The block was issued due to the user's newfound will to disrupt Wikipedia intentionally. Their previous contributions are welcome, but this behaviour necessitates administrative action. m.o.p 21:52, 13 September 2011 (UTC)
Say hi to your imaginary girlfriend for me
- Well, I do love getting hate mail. Thanks for the laugh! Cheers, m.o.p 05:17, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
...further to the above lovely note, I weighed in on Calabe's talk page - there appears to be more confusion here than at first glance. bou·le·var·dier (talk) 05:19, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
Sorry to drop by again, but Silentsizzlingsausage (talk · contribs) would appear to be a duck. bou·le·var·dier (talk) 05:31, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
- No, it's not an issue! Thanks for the note, blocked. Cheers, WP:SPI. Thanks again, m.o.p 06:13, 14 September 2011 (UTC)]
I have to admit ...
- See the above section. The link is apparently a very subtle spam link that Calabe is removing, and socks are springing up to revert him. Swarm u / t 10:20, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
Moderation
- Alright, I'll make my way back. Thanks for letting me know! m.o.p 05:18, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
User:12.139.96.228
- To be honest, this case is perplexing. Half of this user's edits are constructive (mostly sourced), the other half aren't sourced - and the user won't reply to anybody. I'm also too busy to go through every edit and confirm whether or not it's good. I forgot about this for a while - I'll think about it tonight and figure something out for tomorrow. Thanks for reminding me! m.o.p 05:18, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
Whoops
- Whoops! Must not have been looking when I ran my block script. Thanks for letting me know, I've reblocked them for a far shorter (technically, an infinitely shorter) time. Cheers, m.o.p 22:58, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
Ashleyleggat404
- You're fully right in that the blanking policy covers indefinite blocks. I've removed the user's talk page rights as a result. Thanks again! m.o.p 00:28, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkback
Moderation
- If you look into this please consider whether Anupam's actions on the talk page and the entry itself are violations of WP:OWN. He's been driving off those he disagrees with by bludgening them to death with argument and heavily policing the entry claiming that there is a consensus written in stone despite many dissenting voices. Others have taken to simply calling him "the article's owner." I have had enough of this behavior personally and left him a message about it on his talk page. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:52, 20 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Dear User:Master of Puppets, the above user has misrepresented the occurrences at the article. I started another Introduction discussion at the article's talk page but User:Griswaldo has chosen to edit war over a second NPOV tag, despite the fact that one already exists in the article. He has done so despite the fact that the Introduction is being discussed in a peaceful manner at the talk page, in violation of your injunction: "We've only got consensus on this proposed versions (and loose consensus at that) - please do not attempt to subvert said consensus by making undiscussed changes." I have posted a message on his talk page about this behaviour. Nevertheless, I also do not wish to argue with the user personally and would prefer if you could go back to moderating the discussion between the two parties at the talk page. Thanks for taking the time to read this message. With regards, AnupamTalk 20:58, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- His "injunction?" Adding a neutrality tag to a specific sentence which an editor disputes the neutrality of is hardly "subverting the consensus by making undiscussed changes." Please stop wikilawyering to get your way. There is a growing consensus against your position regarding this article in general as well, despite your aggressive policing of the entry and the talk page. See ]
- I just thought that I would mention that User:Griswaldo, after seeing this message, just now decided to comment in the discussion rather than edit war against consensus further. Thanks for taking the time to read this message. With regards, AnupamTalk 21:51, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- "Edit war against consensus further?" My comment there has nothing to do with your message here. I've made three total edits to this entry ever. One was a copy edit in June, another was reverting an IP vandal, and the third was the revert of your Ownership edit. Please do not insinuate that I'm a edit warrior on this page. It is disingenuous.Griswaldo (talk) 22:08, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Thank you all for approaching me with your concerns.
- Obviously, I do not support Anupam - this is because I'm remaining a neutral third party, and, therefore, can't take sides. However, Griswaldo: please keep in mind that I did ask for all discussion to take place on the talk page. Why not just add your complaints to the talk page? It would have been much easier to discuss.
- I do agree that adding a NPOV tag, while slightly redundant, isn't horrible, but your intent seems to have been to stir discussion on that particular section, discussion that would be much more appropriate on the talk page.
- As for your and Snalwibma's concerns of Anupam trying to 'own' the article, I'm curious as to what you two mean; what 'delusions'?
- Also, Griswaldo, I don't think Anupam meant to insinuate you are an edit warrior (though this is just my take) - rather, they wanted to add the note that you've weighed in on discussion. m.o.p 22:10, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- your intent seems to have been to stir discussion on that particular section - No that's incorrect. I didn't add this tag, I simply reverted Anupam's attempt to own the page when he removed it. I agreed with JimWae's addition of the tag and found Anupam's removal to be unwarranted and a display of ownership.Griswaldo (talk) 22:16, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Note that, for all intents and purposes, reverting somebody is adding whatever is included in your edit, regardless of who put it there first. You revert a removal, you're agreeing with the edition you're reverting to - simple.
- And, if you agreed with JimWae, then we go back to what I was saying earlier - say so on the talk page. Two of you agree? Great! That's closer to consensus. But it means nothing if you express your support by reverting removals.
- Again, as I've asked multiple times, please stop saying that Anupam is owning anything without giving me evidence of it first. m.o.p 22:22, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Dear User:Master of Puppets, thank you for your reply to all of us. The reason User:Snalwibma stated that I was attempting to "own" the article was because I reverted an undiscussed removal from the article, which not only myself, but two other users objected to. In fact, two anonymous IP Addresses also reverted User:Snalwibma. I was open to compromise on the issue and stated that I would accept User:Turnsalso's compromise on the issue. I kindly request you to look at that discussion yourself and get an honest reading of it. Also, the only reason I removed the second NPOV tag was because there was already one present, which I did not remove. I only reverted the addition of a second NPOV tag once and even explained myself on the talk page. When I went to the talk page, I found rude accusations and an anti-collaborative spirit, despite the fact that I have been nothing but polite. I hope this helps. With regards, AnupamTalk 22:25, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry - I know I should not rise to the bait, but I have to object to the comment "The reason User:Snalwibma stated that I was attempting to 'own' the article was because I reverted an undiscussed removal ..." How dare Anupam presume to know what is in my mind! The reason I describe Anupam's attitude to the article as one of ownership is because that is how s/he behaves - "policing" every edit, pronouncing on whether s/he "accepts" or "rejects" it, peremptorily reverting anything s/he does not like, without discussion, presuming to know others' motives, and judging them as fit/unfit to contribute to the article. This has been going on for weeks, if not months. It is impossible to discuss the content of the article, let alone improve the text, because everything is filtered through the approval/disapproval of the article's self-appointed guardian, Anupam. tendentious or disruptive when they bring up certain issues, even when they are clearly in the majority. That is not collaborative. I stopped editing the article heavily because of those issues. I don't have any delusions that my opinion is worth more than anyone else's here, but I would think that the large number of established, experienced editors who are all saying there's a problem, would indicate something. — Jess· Δ♥ 19:45, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
Please reconsider your full protection of Militant atheist
- In case you didn't notice, I asked that people think twice about pointing fingers at each other. If you'd like to start a sockpuppetry investigation, let me know, and we can take that avenue - however, don't accuse other editors of ownership without substance. If you think Anupam is trying to own things, give me something. Diffs, edits, anything. I'll check it out for you, but right now, baseless accusations are not what I'm looking for.
- Also, notice that I protected the article with your edit being the last one. How is that validating the very person you've been reverting?
- The protection will stay until consensus is reached. m.o.p 22:19, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Because protection is what he wants quite clearly. He's stalling conversation and shouting down people on the talk page, where, if you have a look, you'll see he's clearly in the minority. Because of your "injunction" as he calls it, he also claims that no matter how many people agree with a certain change it is illegitimate. I'll be happy to gather some diffs, but my first message to you above was to please look into the situation carefully before acting on it. Did you do that and come to the conclusion that I'm wrong or did you not head that request? Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:29, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Yes, I did heed your request. I don't see any ownership behaviour from Anupam, though, being involved in multiple disputes, I didn't have the time to read every last word on the page, so you're free to provide evidence. However, from what I can see, Anupam's last proposal was supported by the majority - not to count (and I don't mean to imply that I decide where consensus lies by looking at pure numbers), but from looking at pure supports versus opposes, eight people (nine including Anupam) support while four oppose. How does that make Anupam's views a minority? m.o.p 22:37, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- It depends on what view you are talking about. The current RFC on the introduction is something that most people don't even want to engage because most people think this very entry should be split up and integrated into other entries. I reluctantly engaged the RfC just now myself. The last time the more serious question about the entry was asked, several of the new commentators were not around, and there was "no consensus" found because the opposing side was chalk full of SPAs and editors with a view that is outright hostile to atheism (which is a legitimate view to hold, but it is a minority view). Let me find you some diffs.Griswaldo (talk) 22:43, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- User:Griswaldo, that is exactly the issue: you do not want to collaborate with other users on the talk page, which is why you were reluctant to participate in the current RfC. Moreover, there were several SPA's on the side of the opposition as well, including WP:NPOV. In addition, the split was again recently discussed and the specific case to do so was refuted by several editors. As such, there was no consensus for it. I hope this helps. With regards, AnupamTalk 22:52, 20 September 2011 (UTC)]
- No. You are trying to write an article that violates WP:SYNTH because it conflates New Atheism with oppressive communist regimes and their histories of violence. That's hardly NPOV. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:59, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
Hi m.o.p., as someone who occasionally looks at that page (and then washes my hands), I just want to compliment you as having done the right thing in full protecting. By way of unsolicited advice to the involved editors, the best thing they could do is to allow The Wrong Version to sit there a good long time, and devote their energy to other things. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:54, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
]
Yes, please reconsider your full protection of
WP:RS—deserve protection against misinformed reverts. Thanks Geremia (talk) 16:12, 22 September 2011 (UTC)]
Diffs of
- I'm not really sure where the ownership is here; nowhere in our policies is it stated that a user can't promote their RFC on the subject talk page. If it's ongoing and they'd like to move it to the forefront, what's wrong with that? More so, some of your summaries seem inaccurate - in that last diff, you state that Anupam is removing images, yet I only see Anupam adding an image (the peace dove that's at the top of the page). Also, you use repeating examples. m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Well clearly the last diff was wrong. Thanks for the vote of confidence. There are no repeat examples nor inaccurate summaries, just a mistaken copy paste of the second to last diff to the last position as well. I have fixed it. Cheers.
- Using "consensus claims from one RfC to reject changes made to article content
- Same as above. Using the "consensus" bludgeon to get his way. Please note that clearly we ought to edit by consensus, but this consensus is highly disputed, and IMO not there in the first place. The real problem is the way in which Anupam decides to use it like a trump card to remove changes he doesn't like. Ask yourself if all changes post "consensus" have been removed or just the ones Anupam decided he wanted removed.
Master of Puppets do you need more diffs or is this enough?Griswaldo (talk) 23:31, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Well I need more diffs because your "evidence" so far looks like a desperate attempt to incriminate an editor who has been very successful in persuading his colleagues to adopt his proposals. Anupam has presented his proposals, argued the merits and persuaded many editors. Anything you want to tell us about why you're having difficulty doing likewise? – Lionel (talk) 06:02, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- I don't see this is as conclusive evidence, either. And, it should be said - if people are editing against established consensus, then people are free to re-evaluate consensus, but edit-warring against it doesn't make much sense. m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- If not ownership then what is this - [28], [29], [30]? He removes two RfCs started by another editor, and revolving around the question that many of us actually find to be the fundamental question to answer regarding the entry. Then he edit wars to keep these RfCs off the page, claiming again to have some sort of authority stemming from your prior actions. If you aren't willing to do something here I'm going to another administrator and I'm going to ask for your initial "consensus," your strong arm administrating, and your lack of action here to be reviewed as well. Thanks.Griswaldo (talk) 17:08, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Anupam has already apologized for reverting those RfC additions, and we've moved past it. He also didn't claim to have administrative authority, but was waiting for my approval. We've cleared this up, it's not an issue. So no, I'm not going to take any action (as I've said here and on ANI). Now, if you'd like to threaten me and tell me that, since I'm not cooperating with your wills, you'll go to another administrator, that's fine - as I've said, you can seek outside opinions - but remember to keep a cool head, because borderline threats are not appreciated. m.o.p 21:49, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- It was not a threat, "borderline" or otherwise. You are conveniently ignoring a growing number of voices who are all saying the same thing - there is an ownership problem here. The deletion issue has not been "cleared up" as far as I'm concerned. Whenever it is mentioned Anupam insists that he did not "unilaterally" delete the RfCs from the page, which is a blatant distortion, since that is exactly what he did. He continues to act as a policeman at the page, and yes he does continue to cite your authority. Did you bother to read the many diffs I posted above in the second two sections? I will quote three random examples from those I provided for you if you want.
- When he first deleted the two RfCs he wrote: "rv - see discussion with reviewing administrator; approval needed to start another RfC while one is already occurring."
- When he deleted a fact tag that JimWae put into the lede: "rv excessive tagging per talk; tag is already extant in header; do not subvert previous consensus but gain consensus for potential additions per administrative notice"
- When he rejected another recent change to the entry: "accepted edits by User:Jkhwiki; rv removal of longstanding referenced content - see discussion on talk page and gain consensus for action per administrative injunction"
- In talk page comments and in edit summaries he consistently does the same thing. He refers to your authority, either directly or indirectly through your "notice" or your "injunction" as he likes to call it. I never said the claimed to have administrative authority, I said that he's using your authority, by way of your comments, such as the closure of the AfD to bully people. Do you deny that he citing your comments, because if you do then I must have fabricated those quotes. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:32, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
If you say "If you don't do A, then I'm going to go and do B", that's a threat. Anyway, that's not the issue - we've already covered all the issues with the RfC reverting, and Anupam won't do it again. Why keep raising hell over it?
We've already covered everything you bring up. And no, I'm not denying anything. I'm just saying this, and it's very simple: I don't think there has been any blatant ownership here. That's my judgment. If you disagree, again, feel free to raise this with another administrator or on ANI. m.o.p 23:12, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Regarding the new RFC, I still think there has not passed yet too much time since the last discussion about splitting the article. As far as I knew, repeating these sorts of debates (like splitting, deleting, renaming) before a larger amount of time has passed (like 6 months) is usually discouraged. And as others have also argued earlier, even if having multiple RFCs is possible, it's not very useful, and the new RFC seems to discourage further discussion about improving the lead introduction. So preventing multiple RFCs (and also a RFC about an issue debated not too long ago) does not look to me like evidence of bad faith intentions. Cody7777777 (talk) 21:37, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Cody, would you mind linking me to the previous RfC on splitting? m.o.p 21:49, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- The previous attempt to split the article can be found here. Cody7777777 (talk) 21:55, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Response
Yes, it does. Thanks, m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Dear User:Master of Puppets, I just noticed that User:Binksternet started another RfC while a current one is occurring. Is this appropriate? I reverted the addition motioning for one until your response is confirmed. If it is acceptable, then I apologize and will revert my edit. I look forward to your response. With regards, AnupamTalk 15:14, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'll form my reply on ANI. m.o.p 17:12, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- When you do please take into account my comment just above, regarding Anupam's edit warring to remove talk page comments (namely these RfCs) posted by others on the talk page. If you still don't think this is WP:OWN then clearly other administrators are needed here.Griswaldo (talk) 17:15, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Dear User:Griswaldo, how is going to a neutral mediator to address the issue owning the article? I acknowledge that the article is in dispute and as a result, I am asking an administrator for advice in this matter, NOT handling things on my own, as you have done by edit warring. Your WP:OWN allegations have not only been dismissed by this administrator, but by several other users, including, User:Lionelt, User:Cody7777777 and User:NYyankees51. Thanks, AnupamTalk 17:27, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- In reply to Griswaldo: reverting the RfCs was a mistake, but we've cleared that up now. As Anupam has stated at ANI, the intent was not to discourage discussion. If you think my judgment is compromised, you're welcome to seek another administrator's input. m.o.p 21:04, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- And as further evidence of WP:OWN, see this. Anupam adds a comment to everything that anyone else says, as if he/she is the owner of the article and everyone else is a subordinate contributor. This particular instance is pretty benign (although it clutters up the talk page with an unnecessary comment that merely says "I agree"), but I do think that Anupam at least needs to learn how to avoid giving the appearance of thinking he/she owns the article, and to desist from chipping in and saying the same thing over and over again, which almost makes meaningful discussion impossible! SNALWIBMA ( talk - contribs ) 17:31, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- While the input is appreciated, as I've said before, making allegations of ownership without hard evidence isn't going to get us anywhere. Anupam is not stopping others from discussing changes or forming consensus, and that's all that matters - refactoring the talk page or commenting on an issue is not against policy, and I'm not going to tell someone to stop editing because it "looks" like they're doing something wrong. As said above, you're welcome to request another administrator's insight if you wish. m.o.p 21:04, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
COIHi
you've helped me out before, with a conflict of interest problem, so having much more experience than me on wikipedia, I thought I would be bold enough to ask again for help.
Similar problem to last, User_talk:Hobbycraft is editing the HOBBYCRAFT article and making changes that aren't citably right. I think the user name suggest and history suggests a conflict of interest case.
Can you please, speak to them addressing this issue.
Thank you very much for your help.
Markcoulter50 (talk) 22:27, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
- I've blocked that user for username violations. Thanks a lot for letting me know! Keep up the great work, m.o.p 23:00, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkbackcausa sui (talk) 18:47, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Hello. You have a new message at causa sui's talk page. causa sui (talk) 20:54, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Problematic editing on militant atheism
- I hope it's not considered defamatory to repeat the final line: "I merely present the diffs above, and let others draw their own conclusions. Is this a duck? Does it quack? You decide.". Unfortunately, the concerned community no longer has that opportunity. What did you decide on their behalf? Does this duck quack, or not? bobrayner (talk) 15:42, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- It's not your wording, it's the very idea of it. Going to what's allegorically a public place and shouting, "Hey, everybody, this man is a criminal!" is one step below blatantly forming a lynch mob. As I've said, I have no problem with your wording or evidence, just your location of choice. Wikipedia is not, unfortunately, a democracy - letting others draw their conclusions and voice their opinions is not how a sockpuppet investigation works.
- So yes, please don't go restoring any of that section. We're not discussing editors, we're discussing the content they produce. Anything else has a sub-board to deal with it (like WP:SPI).
- Hopefully that clears things up! I'll be happy to answer any more questions should you have them. Cheers, m.o.p 15:48, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Hello User:Bobrayner, I noticed the section you created on the militant atheism talk page. If you do feel the way you do about User:Turnsalso and the anonymous IP Addresses, you can take this up with WP:SPI. Thanks, AnupamTalk 15:52, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
Are you kidding my MoP? Above your write: Going to what's allegorically a public place and shouting, "Hey, everybody, this man is a criminal!" is one step below blatantly forming a lynch mob. AND We're not discussing editors, we're discussing the content they produce. Yet you call this edit by Lionelt "good faith," at WQA? MoP, I would not ask you to agree with me or to like me, but can I please ask you not to insult me with these double standards.Griswaldo (talk) 16:18, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
]
- Griswaldo, I mean no offense when I say this, but I'd appreciate it if you stayed out of discussions which didn't involve you. Also, please don't put words in my mouth. Thanks, m.o.p 16:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I have not put words in your mouth. You said that you would assume good faith about Lionel. If you "assume good faith" it means you assume his edits were in "good faith." If you did not intend that meaning I suggest you reconsider what you wrote. Also, if you want me to "stay out of discussion which don't involve me" then I suggest your first order of business should be to do the same thing yourself. You decided to post at WQA, when there was no mention of you or anything you've done in that thread. Once again, I expect people not to practice double standards. So as long as you cannot show me that you will treat me as you ask to be treated yourself, I will not oblige you. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:21, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Please stop bickering. I'm not quite sure what you're trying to accomplish here. I've already explained what I meant when I said assuming good faith, but I'll explain again: I assumed that Lionelt was not hounding or deliberately haranguing you. I did not say, at any point, that his edit content was good faith, and I've told him not to edit like that again. So please stop accusing me of saying things I haven't said.
- Also, I posted in WQA because, as a mediator in this case and as an administrator, it's my duty to weigh in on administrative noticeboards, especially when the case is an ongoing discussion I've been participating in for three months. It is not your duty to weigh in on discussions on my talk page that don't concern you. I hope the distinction is clear here. m.o.p 20:33, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I think you are confused about something. Content is never good faith. "Editing in good faith" and "good faith edits" refers to the intent of the editor always. It has nothing to do with content. My assumption that you also felt the edits were appropriate comes from the fact that you did not say they weren't appropriate and clearly feel that his intentions were good. If you'd like to set the record straight on that issue you still can. I've asked you twice now to discuss the actual edits that are the focal point of the thread. Also, I moved the thread to ANI, per the suggestion of the editor who marked it "resolved."Griswaldo (talk) 20:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- See Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#User:Lionelt_--_following_my_past_edits_to_drum_up_support_against_me. FYI, I copy pasted the entire discussion because both you and Collect were critical of my initial post and I thought it was the right thing to do to preserve that criticism in the record of the conversation. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:43, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- In reply to your first paragraph: I'm going to give up now, as it seems you're misunderstanding most of what I type, but you're the one who stated that the content was not good faith (as you said, not appropriate), and I agreed - I referred to his intent in replying to you, and said that I assumed good faith in his motives, not his replies. I can't really say that in a clearer way, so my apologies if it's hard to understand. Also, as I've already said, I've left a message for Lionelt about his edits, so clearly I do not feel they're appropriate. m.o.p 20:57, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I, too, find these double standards vexing.
- Which diff is defamatory?
- I had hitherto thought that people on the article talkpage might like to be aware of potential problems with votestacking on the article talkpage (and 3rr evasion, of course). Would it be permitted to add a link to that list of diffs when it's in a different place, or would you consider that defamatory too? bobrayner (talk) 16:23, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- As I said, the information is not defamatory, but the way it's presented is - we have specific processes available to pursue should one feel there are sockpuppets about. However, calling someone out with the intent of informing the community is overstepping your authority and damaging to the accused's character. Also, there's no way a community discussion about whether or not one editor is a sockpuppet can end in anything other than a sockpuppet investigation anyway.
- So, in closing, please don't bring issues like this to the talk page. If you're concerned about votestacking, take it to the appropriate venue - if your concerns are validated, we'll take measures against said puppets. Cheers, m.o.p 16:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I am very disappointed that it's no longer permissible to raise problems with article-editing on the article talkpage. Previous concerns about sockpuppetry were simply ignored; the difference this time is that it's backed by lots of diffs.
- I'm fairly confident that the people concerned have sufficient technical nous to make checkuser draw a blank. And, let's be entirely honest, within minutes of me creating an SPI, an admin of the right persuasion will be getting an email suggesting that an SPI needs their attention. And SPI does not see offsite coordination by a facebook group &c. Finally, any null result at SPI will be used at the article in much the same way as previous administrative decisions have been. So, I do not believe that an SPI will improve either the article, or the encyclopædia as a whole. bobrayner (talk) 17:08, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- If you don't think the pre-existing methods set in place for situations like this are sufficient, you can always raise that concern at the village pump or suggest a policy revision - however, SPI is the venue for these requests, and the only venue. The talk page can not substitute. m.o.p 17:10, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
76.228.226.122Thank you for blocking the anonymous user, who is being counterproductive and rude. (although I think the block should have been one week, but I guess ok at least)
Can you also please try to hide the edit summaries of these edits if possible?
This and
this
Thanks and regards, talk 05:04, 26 September 2011 (UTC)]
- I'll extend the block if this behaviour continues after the block period is over.
- As for the edit summaries, those don't warrant hiding - I apologize for their content, but they don't meet the criteria of what I should remove. It's best just to ignore them for now. Cheers, m.o.p 05:13, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
- Okay, good to know, if I did nothing wrong, no permanent block will be enforced. The IP does not volunteer on WP as an admin and so the disproportionately out of line comments and threats of his should be ignored. --talk 05:19, 26 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Sounds good. We only hide extremely offensive revisions; milder ones stay in the edit history. Thanks again for bringing this to our attention! Cheers, m.o.p 05:31, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
Email
Jasper Deng (talk) 05:29, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
- Reading. talk) 06:00, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Bad Girls Club
- I've blocked Junebea for 2 days for disregarding warnings. m.o.p 20:30, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks for helping :) Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 21:06, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkback
- And again.Griswaldo (talk) 04:24, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
- And again ... but maybe the last. You can settle this question once and for all. See the talk page.Griswaldo (talk) 06:09, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'm sure I'm not alone in wanting to hear your replies to the last responses posed to you at that page. IMO, I don't know why you went down the road you did, but as far as I can tell you're blatantly misrepesenting facts about your own actions when people are brining concerns to you. You might think that since you closed the RfC the matter is settled, but it is not. You're actions have not made my life any more pleasant in the last few days vis-a-vis trying to deal with Anupam's disruption and I think you owe us all answers. So please revisit this thread and deal with the open questions. Thanks.Griswaldo (talk) 02:19, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
- I invite you to stop asking the same question again and again. This would be appreciated. Thanks, m.o.p 02:33, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Block question
- No, I just block obviously bad-faith accounts on sight. Advertising/spam accounts fall under that category. m.o.p 00:37, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Thanks
- Thank you. I've unlocked the article for whatever may come. If I'm needed again, feel free to let me know. Thanks for the kind words again, m.o.p 05:12, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
reminder
- We're still waiting to see if the user understands COI policy (per Ed's question). I'll prod the user and see if they'll answer. talk) 19:20, 30 September 2011 (UTC)]
Nextel logo deleted
- Mmm, good point. What's the link to the logo in question? m.o.p 01:33, 2 October 2011 (UTC)
Support of Sage City SymphonyYou deleted this page before I had a chance to go back in and add the stuff that you wanted to see, including the links within Wikipedia to important composers such as Lou Callabro (who started this orchestra and cites it in his Wikipedia page) and Susan Hurley whose work we premiered (SC is also mentioned in her Wikipedia entry). (Let alone links about the works we have performed.) And we have a web site at www.sagecitysymphony.org, have existed for over 35 yrs and are a significant cultural resource in the Bennington area such that we receive grants from local, statewide and national foundations.
I broke my wrist last weekend and am doing one-handed pecking so it'll take me a few days to get that loaded in. We are going out for a bit now, but I would appreciate your undeleting the page so that I don't have to re-invent the starting part when I go back in tomorrow to add links. Or delete it entirely so that I can start fresh - at this point either would work as long as I can start some serious work on it tomorrow. I am the webmaster by the way, so I do have access to content and more links.
Thank you, Celia Murray — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.228.127.119 (talk) 14:22, 1 October 2011 (UTC)
- It looks like fixed everything up. Best of luck, m.o.p 01:35, 2 October 2011 (UTC)]
Reply on Deterence's talk page
MA
After the beating you took you deserve a cold one--on me! Thanks for being fair and balanced – Lionel (talk) 03:55, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
- Hey, thanks! Glad to help out. :) m.o.p 03:56, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
Deletion of Mau5trap Recordings
--neocharles (talk) 07:33, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Existence does not equal notability - the subject has to be notable to get a Wikipedia page. m.o.p 12:05, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
Questoin re: AIV
- Addendum, actually, I read it very clearly in WP:VANDNOT: "Uploading or using material on Wikipedia in violation of Wikipedia's copyright policies is prohibited, but is not vandalism unless the user does so maliciously or fails to heed warnings." So if a person fails to heed warnings it is vandalism. My mistake here was that I only warned once. --Muhandes (talk) 12:29, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Eh, technically it is vandalism, but the user seems to be trying to improve the Wikipedia - that desire to help is misplaced in this case, as they seem to think that using copyrighted content is actually better. Weird. For most cases, yes, you should report copyvio to AIV - as long as they've been warned sufficiently. m.o.p 12:42, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- OK, he now did it again and the time stamp is after your last warning. Is it vandalism now? --Muhandes (talk) 12:32, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Yeah, if they're outright ignoring warnings. I've blocked for three days. m.o.p 12:40, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
Classmusic
- Oh, I know. But if somebody's lied to my face about using another account - and to other editors working on the article - I'm not about to let them go without a repercussion or two. I'd like Almost-instinct and Voceditnore to look over the article and fix up anything shifty. Also, I'd like Classmusic to respond to my warning, instead of blanking it and ignoring like they have to the above-named editors.
- So, in short, I know that COI doesn't bar editing, but it's enough of a concern that, given the user's recent behaviour, I'll stop them from doing anything until we've figured things out. This isn't too rouge-y, is it? I didn't hear that. Perhaps he is unaware of the sockpuppet investigation findings. Anyhow it seems that DeltaQuad has also blocked the Classmusic account. I left a note on his page about using the unblock template, but re-iterated that he needs to read the COI and Autobiography guidelines and stick to them scrupulously, if he gets unblocked. In the Opera and Classical Music WikiProjects, we get a lot of articles for performers, ensembles, etc. created by their agents and PR people, and often themselves. In my experience, the best I can hope for after one of these tussles is that they'll edit their article according to the guidelines in future. I have yet to find a single one who has ever contributed anything else to Wikipedia. Their only interest in the project is as a PR tool. Having said that, at least it results (after much red-pencilling from other editors) in one new article on a notable subject that we didn't have before and in a small way redresses the pop culture systemic bias here. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 13:40, 5 October 2011 (UTC)]
Danish election
- Never mind, it's been pulled by another admin. All the best, Jenks24 (talk) 11:03, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry about that! I was busy all day and didn't get your message until now. Thanks for letting me know, though! Cheers, m.o.p 19:51, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
3RRHey there! :)
Well WP:CRYSTAL has wined down, however, there's currently a
The Bad Girls Club (season 7). I have notified the two users [32], [33]. The evidence can be found here. They are having an edit-conflict on how the "Duration of cast" should be presented. Since there's no rules regarding anything like that, and it was made up about a year ago, I couldn't warned them to stop their e/c with anything except the 3RR rule. Maybe they need an admin to tell them to stop, so that's why I came to you :) Thanks, Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 01:17, 6 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Temporary page protection requested. Calabe1992 (talk) 01:29, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
Thought you might want to know
- (talk page stalker) That's just the same little ideological website which has been pushing for the "Martyrdom of St. Thomas Ball" attention since day one; no actual new coverage. --Orange Mike | Talk 14:34, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
- I guess I should also mention that the way I found it, was that someone tried submitting it to Fark.com last night. The admins did not greenlight it, so that particular submission/thread did not go to the main Fark page, appearing only to those with Totalfark accounts. The submission said something like "Wikipedia deletes burning man" (I'm not at a computer with TF access so I might not have that exactly right). It might, theoretically, based on the submission, be considered some sort of off-site canvassing (it was submitted with the asinine tag). For what its worth, the thread went uncommented, so I don't think that particular attempt garnered any support. I just wanted to drop a line in case that this was just the first drop of a large storm. If I see anything else, I'll drop a line here. Umbralcorax (talk) 15:58, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
Wiki ad
4chan raid
Thomas James Bell, new information
- (reliable sources. --Orange Mike | Talk 13:33, 30 June 2011 (UTC)]
Happy Birthday
![](//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3d/Nuvola_apps_cookie.svg/50px-Nuvola_apps_cookie.svg.png)
Just a happy Birthday message to you, Master of Puppets, from the Wikipedia Birthday Committee! Have a great day!
Monterey Bay (talk) 02:00, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
User:BillyMoses
Natami
AFD
- Your input is appreciated, though there's nothing I can do with it but take a note. If you'd like, you can weigh in at the next AfD(s), when/if they arise. Cheers, m.o.p 19:42, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
Dr Myko San – Health from Mushrooms
- I'd be happy to help! However, I'm currently away from a computer (typing this on my phone), so I'll have to check in on the 11th of July. Does that sound okay? m.o.p 15:40, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
- wp:NODEADLINE :-) LeadSongDog come howl! 15:48, 7 July 2011 (UTC)]
From a former Wikipedian
-71.234.90.0 (talk) 04:50, 8 July 2011 (UTC)
- Hey, thanks so much! I'm not sure who you are, but I really appreciate the sentiment. Hope all is well! m.o.p 20:49, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
Deletion review for Thomas James Ball
DRV comment
DRV
Could you please overturn the deletion of these files per File:Signature of Amitabh Bachchan.svg and File:Signature of Zakir Hussain.svg:
- File:Signature of Vishwanathan Anand.svg
- File:Signature of Vijay Mallya.svg
- File:Signature of Venkaiah Naidu.svg
- File:Signature of Sudeep Bandhopadhyay.svg
- File:Signature of Sonia Gandhi.svg
- File:Signature of Somnath Chatterjee.svg
- File:Signature of Ratan Tata.svg
- File:Signature of Kumar Mangalam Birla.svg
- File:Signature of Rajeev Shukla.svg
- File:Signature of Raj Babbar.svg
- File:Signature of Rahul Gandhi.svg
- File:Signature of Priyanka Vadra.svg
- File:Signature of P. T. Usha.svg
- File:Signature of Narendra Modi.svg
- File:Signature of Nandan Nilekani.svg
- File:Signature of Manish Tewari.svg
- File:Signature of Leander Paes.svg
- File:Signature of Lata Mangeshkar.svg
- File:Signature of Kumar Mangalam Birla.svg
- File:Signature of Karia Munda.svg
- File:Signature of Kapil Sibal.svg
- File:Signature of Kamal Nath.svg
- File:Signature of K. Kamraj.svg
- File:Signature of Jaya Bachchan.svg
- File:Signature of Gautam Gambhir.svg
- File:Signature of Brinda Karat.svg
- File:Signature of Bharatsinh Solanki.svg
- File:Signature of Bhairon Singh Shekhawat.svg
- File:Signature of B. K. Birla.svg
- File:Signature of Azim Premji.svg
- File:Signature of Arun Jaitely.svg
- File:Signature of Aishwarya Rai Bachchan.svg
- File:Signature of Abhishek Manu Singhvi.svg
- File:Signature of Abhishek Bachchan.svg
- File:Signature of Sting.svg
- File:Signature of Br. L. D. Lobo.svg
- File:Signature of VJ Rannvijay Singh Singha.svg
Diligent07Appears to be less than new. See User talk:Raoulduke25 where he states that this is a deliberate series of edits.
- Can you please help defend our collective effort of including the obscene middle-finger incident in the Cheney Mason article? It should be maintained in the article for public interest, etc. Please see the Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard#Cheney Mason discussion page and include your thoughts in favor of having the content remain in the interests of the public, etc
[8], [9] and even imputation that an editor has a connection with the person [10]. He has been on since April, and started off as being experienced on WP IMHO. Kindly keep an eye out please. Especially for any sign of a real "collective effort"? Such as [11]? Cheers. Collect (talk) 11:36, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
A cookie for you!
Keep up the good work defending the "Wiki" against genre warriors. Thanks for the help! talk) 17:31, 13 July 2011 (UTC)]
Hello. You have a new message at Lionelt's talk page.
Semi protection
OK, this thing with the militant atheism page is impossibleThese guys are incredible... I could dig up diffs to show you how they revert and wikilawyer even the SMALLEST attempt to move the article closer to NPOV. But that would take a long time for you to read. How about I show you this instead:
These guys are utterly without scruples. Who in their right mind would remove the NPOV dispute tag when heated arguments have been raging for weeks and NO moves whatsoever have been made to fix the article? Oh right, that would be someone in their right mind who is running a propaganda platform.
Anyway... I wanted to ask your advice on what to do. These guys are impossible to work with. Most of the other editors have given up and refuse to put this page on their watchlist. So what to do then? Request formal mediation? Articles for deletion? Something else?
Me and the other editors would like to see the page replaced with a disambiguation page... since literally ALL the content has already been covered (better) in Criticism of atheism, State atheism and New Atheism.
Obhave (talk) 13:21, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
- Hello User:Master of Puppets. I noticed this conversation and thought I might add that an NPOV policy. Obhave (talk) 13:11, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
- One more thing, m.o.p... my opponents are currently twisting your words to make it look as if you were scolding user:Mann_jess all along. Obhave (talk) 14:42, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
]
User:Jasper Deng page protection
- No worries! m.o.p 19:35, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
Is there a procedure for brutal uncollaborated editing with a destructive intent?I noticed that you recently had problems with proposed brutal editing by Peter S Strempel. Although he has been more sensible on your project in the end (possibly because of your administrator status?) he has not been so with regard to the astrology project pages to which he made a similar 'razor-promise'. Could you please see this Afd request which is one of three he made for major 'history of astrology' articles within the last hour, with a promise on another important page that any comment which is not refrences within 7 days will be removed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Babylonian_astrology
Is there anything that can be done about this officially to stop him wreaking havoc with content whilst he knows that the small group of editors providing content on these pages are already stretched to the limit trying to keep up with what needs to be done? I don't understand what drives some people to want to edit WP like this, but I think it is entriely the result of his ego-stress that when he proposed an edit for a passage, no one favoured it. Hope you can help or advise Zac Δ talk 01:15, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks! assume good faith; I believe that Peter is simply trying to help improve Wikipedia. While his methods may be lacking in some areas, he has displayed a pretty decent grasp on the policies he's trying to enforce.
- However, I agree that he shouldn't be making any changes if they're not discussed with the community first. Do you mind pulling up a few diffs of where he went against consensus? I'll approach him with your concern then. Thanks, m.o.p 03:57, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
- Actually there hasn't been any significant content dispute with Peter. He proposed a change to a section edit which wasn't a very good proposition and a few editors commented but without rancur, and I added a new section post immediately afterwards to point out the proiposed change would contradict with how the definition was given correctly at a later point in the article, outlining how I understood WP policy expected the main astrology article to pull its own content together, along with its summarised content from its daughter pages. Peter never responded to this but other editors started working in that direction immediately. Then, without further discussion or comment, Peter came back four days later to announce an intention to take his 'word razor' to all unreferenced assertions on the main astrology page, its sub-pages, and the portal page itself, to ensure his perceived disagreement was not circumvented in pages he viewed as content forks (I'm still not sure what he means by that). My response to that can be seen - a perfectly reasonable request for him to do what he felt was most productive, but consider that citation-tagging was the way to go. I also placed comments on his talk-page, which you can read if you are interested. That he erupted into a frenzy of AfD requests last night says something, I think, about his unwillingness to discuss and engage in other views. Most of his posts appear as new section declarations that don't appear to have considered the responses other editors give him.
- I've summarised this in the ANI request Dougweller started. The deletion requests were a step too far IMO, and I'm concerned that Peter would spring to such drastic measures in reaction to what he perceives to be me not allowing him to do what he wants to do. I'll be away for a few days so I'm tying up my WP activity now. That underlines my concern that he intends to take such drastic action with only one week's notice of intent. Thanks for looking into this. It would be good if something could be proposed to stop huge problems before they occur. 10:35, 22 July 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zachariel (talk • contribs
)
- One last request. I have just noticed that a related complaint, which is quite serious but has been sidetracked (deliberatly IMO) by Peter's suggestions that I have prevented him from doing what he wants, has been collapsed as "going nowehere" by an unsympathetic editor.
- "Its ben here several days and no admin has even sniffed at a block or ban - clearly you're not going to get admin action. So this should got to WP:DR or WP:RFCU if you want to take it further. I've boldly collapsed this, though I won't be surprised if someone uncollapses it"
- If you can find the time could you at least take a look at that related problem, and consider uncollapsing it, because the issues are serious and have gone beyond the point where Dispute resolution are appropriate. I will be away and have nothing more to add, but the problems identified still remain. Zac Δ talk 10:58, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
What to do?
- I've started a threat at ANI. Those AfDs are purely pointy and if no one objects I'll close them. talk) 06:11, 22 July 2011 (UTC)]
- Replied there. m.o.p 08:20, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
Talk Page on Militant Atheism - Introduction Section
- The update is appreciated, thanks very much. I've been dealing with life for the past two weeks, but I'll be back to close that discussion tonight or tomorrow. Thanks again, m.o.p 22:03, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
- Just bringing this up again, given the current state of this section. I believe the discussion will be archived automatically if not closed. I'm sorry if I sound pushy with you having a lot on your plate of late. If you would prefer, I could alert User:Fastily instead. Turnsalso (talk) 16:55, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
ITN
- I knew that tab I closed had unfinished business on it... thanks. 2008 University of Central Arkansas shootings is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.
The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2008 University of Central Arkansas shootings(2nd nomination) until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on good quality evidence, and our policies and guidelines.
Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article.
talk 14:00, 1 September 2011 (UTC)]
Hey
- Done! Both your userpage and the transcluded page are protected. Cheers, « ₣M₣ » 04:09, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Restored. m.o.p 05:21, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
]
User talk:Joshua the Independent
- My mistake - my block script auto-filled the edit summary. The block was issued due to the user's newfound will to disrupt Wikipedia intentionally. Their previous contributions are welcome, but this behaviour necessitates administrative action. m.o.p 21:52, 13 September 2011 (UTC)
Say hi to your imaginary girlfriend for me
- Well, I do love getting hate mail. Thanks for the laugh! Cheers, m.o.p 05:17, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
...further to the above lovely note, I weighed in on Calabe's talk page - there appears to be more confusion here than at first glance. bou·le·var·dier (talk) 05:19, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
Sorry to drop by again, but Silentsizzlingsausage (talk · contribs) would appear to be a duck. bou·le·var·dier (talk) 05:31, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
- No, it's not an issue! Thanks for the note, blocked. Cheers, WP:SPI. Thanks again, m.o.p 06:13, 14 September 2011 (UTC)]
I have to admit ...
- See the above section. The link is apparently a very subtle spam link that Calabe is removing, and socks are springing up to revert him. Swarm u / t 10:20, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
Moderation
- Alright, I'll make my way back. Thanks for letting me know! m.o.p 05:18, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
User:12.139.96.228
- To be honest, this case is perplexing. Half of this user's edits are constructive (mostly sourced), the other half aren't sourced - and the user won't reply to anybody. I'm also too busy to go through every edit and confirm whether or not it's good. I forgot about this for a while - I'll think about it tonight and figure something out for tomorrow. Thanks for reminding me! m.o.p 05:18, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
Whoops
- Whoops! Must not have been looking when I ran my block script. Thanks for letting me know, I've reblocked them for a far shorter (technically, an infinitely shorter) time. Cheers, m.o.p 22:58, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
Ashleyleggat404
- You're fully right in that the blanking policy covers indefinite blocks. I've removed the user's talk page rights as a result. Thanks again! m.o.p 00:28, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkback
Moderation
- If you look into this please consider whether Anupam's actions on the talk page and the entry itself are violations of WP:OWN. He's been driving off those he disagrees with by bludgening them to death with argument and heavily policing the entry claiming that there is a consensus written in stone despite many dissenting voices. Others have taken to simply calling him "the article's owner." I have had enough of this behavior personally and left him a message about it on his talk page. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:52, 20 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Dear User:Master of Puppets, the above user has misrepresented the occurrences at the article. I started another Introduction discussion at the article's talk page but User:Griswaldo has chosen to edit war over a second NPOV tag, despite the fact that one already exists in the article. He has done so despite the fact that the Introduction is being discussed in a peaceful manner at the talk page, in violation of your injunction: "We've only got consensus on this proposed versions (and loose consensus at that) - please do not attempt to subvert said consensus by making undiscussed changes." I have posted a message on his talk page about this behaviour. Nevertheless, I also do not wish to argue with the user personally and would prefer if you could go back to moderating the discussion between the two parties at the talk page. Thanks for taking the time to read this message. With regards, AnupamTalk 20:58, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- His "injunction?" Adding a neutrality tag to a specific sentence which an editor disputes the neutrality of is hardly "subverting the consensus by making undiscussed changes." Please stop wikilawyering to get your way. There is a growing consensus against your position regarding this article in general as well, despite your aggressive policing of the entry and the talk page. See ]
- I just thought that I would mention that User:Griswaldo, after seeing this message, just now decided to comment in the discussion rather than edit war against consensus further. Thanks for taking the time to read this message. With regards, AnupamTalk 21:51, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- "Edit war against consensus further?" My comment there has nothing to do with your message here. I've made three total edits to this entry ever. One was a copy edit in June, another was reverting an IP vandal, and the third was the revert of your Ownership edit. Please do not insinuate that I'm a edit warrior on this page. It is disingenuous.Griswaldo (talk) 22:08, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Thank you all for approaching me with your concerns.
- Obviously, I do not support Anupam - this is because I'm remaining a neutral third party, and, therefore, can't take sides. However, Griswaldo: please keep in mind that I did ask for all discussion to take place on the talk page. Why not just add your complaints to the talk page? It would have been much easier to discuss.
- I do agree that adding a NPOV tag, while slightly redundant, isn't horrible, but your intent seems to have been to stir discussion on that particular section, discussion that would be much more appropriate on the talk page.
- As for your and Snalwibma's concerns of Anupam trying to 'own' the article, I'm curious as to what you two mean; what 'delusions'?
- Also, Griswaldo, I don't think Anupam meant to insinuate you are an edit warrior (though this is just my take) - rather, they wanted to add the note that you've weighed in on discussion. m.o.p 22:10, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- your intent seems to have been to stir discussion on that particular section - No that's incorrect. I didn't add this tag, I simply reverted Anupam's attempt to own the page when he removed it. I agreed with JimWae's addition of the tag and found Anupam's removal to be unwarranted and a display of ownership.Griswaldo (talk) 22:16, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Note that, for all intents and purposes, reverting somebody is adding whatever is included in your edit, regardless of who put it there first. You revert a removal, you're agreeing with the edition you're reverting to - simple.
- And, if you agreed with JimWae, then we go back to what I was saying earlier - say so on the talk page. Two of you agree? Great! That's closer to consensus. But it means nothing if you express your support by reverting removals.
- Again, as I've asked multiple times, please stop saying that Anupam is owning anything without giving me evidence of it first. m.o.p 22:22, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Dear User:Master of Puppets, thank you for your reply to all of us. The reason User:Snalwibma stated that I was attempting to "own" the article was because I reverted an undiscussed removal from the article, which not only myself, but two other users objected to. In fact, two anonymous IP Addresses also reverted User:Snalwibma. I was open to compromise on the issue and stated that I would accept User:Turnsalso's compromise on the issue. I kindly request you to look at that discussion yourself and get an honest reading of it. Also, the only reason I removed the second NPOV tag was because there was already one present, which I did not remove. I only reverted the addition of a second NPOV tag once and even explained myself on the talk page. When I went to the talk page, I found rude accusations and an anti-collaborative spirit, despite the fact that I have been nothing but polite. I hope this helps. With regards, AnupamTalk 22:25, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry - I know I should not rise to the bait, but I have to object to the comment "The reason User:Snalwibma stated that I was attempting to 'own' the article was because I reverted an undiscussed removal ..." How dare Anupam presume to know what is in my mind! The reason I describe Anupam's attitude to the article as one of ownership is because that is how s/he behaves - "policing" every edit, pronouncing on whether s/he "accepts" or "rejects" it, peremptorily reverting anything s/he does not like, without discussion, presuming to know others' motives, and judging them as fit/unfit to contribute to the article. This has been going on for weeks, if not months. It is impossible to discuss the content of the article, let alone improve the text, because everything is filtered through the approval/disapproval of the article's self-appointed guardian, Anupam. tendentious or disruptive when they bring up certain issues, even when they are clearly in the majority. That is not collaborative. I stopped editing the article heavily because of those issues. I don't have any delusions that my opinion is worth more than anyone else's here, but I would think that the large number of established, experienced editors who are all saying there's a problem, would indicate something. — Jess· Δ♥ 19:45, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
Please reconsider your full protection of Militant atheist
- In case you didn't notice, I asked that people think twice about pointing fingers at each other. If you'd like to start a sockpuppetry investigation, let me know, and we can take that avenue - however, don't accuse other editors of ownership without substance. If you think Anupam is trying to own things, give me something. Diffs, edits, anything. I'll check it out for you, but right now, baseless accusations are not what I'm looking for.
- Also, notice that I protected the article with your edit being the last one. How is that validating the very person you've been reverting?
- The protection will stay until consensus is reached. m.o.p 22:19, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Because protection is what he wants quite clearly. He's stalling conversation and shouting down people on the talk page, where, if you have a look, you'll see he's clearly in the minority. Because of your "injunction" as he calls it, he also claims that no matter how many people agree with a certain change it is illegitimate. I'll be happy to gather some diffs, but my first message to you above was to please look into the situation carefully before acting on it. Did you do that and come to the conclusion that I'm wrong or did you not head that request? Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:29, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Yes, I did heed your request. I don't see any ownership behaviour from Anupam, though, being involved in multiple disputes, I didn't have the time to read every last word on the page, so you're free to provide evidence. However, from what I can see, Anupam's last proposal was supported by the majority - not to count (and I don't mean to imply that I decide where consensus lies by looking at pure numbers), but from looking at pure supports versus opposes, eight people (nine including Anupam) support while four oppose. How does that make Anupam's views a minority? m.o.p 22:37, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- It depends on what view you are talking about. The current RFC on the introduction is something that most people don't even want to engage because most people think this very entry should be split up and integrated into other entries. I reluctantly engaged the RfC just now myself. The last time the more serious question about the entry was asked, several of the new commentators were not around, and there was "no consensus" found because the opposing side was chalk full of SPAs and editors with a view that is outright hostile to atheism (which is a legitimate view to hold, but it is a minority view). Let me find you some diffs.Griswaldo (talk) 22:43, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- User:Griswaldo, that is exactly the issue: you do not want to collaborate with other users on the talk page, which is why you were reluctant to participate in the current RfC. Moreover, there were several SPA's on the side of the opposition as well, including WP:NPOV. In addition, the split was again recently discussed and the specific case to do so was refuted by several editors. As such, there was no consensus for it. I hope this helps. With regards, AnupamTalk 22:52, 20 September 2011 (UTC)]
- No. You are trying to write an article that violates WP:SYNTH because it conflates New Atheism with oppressive communist regimes and their histories of violence. That's hardly NPOV. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:59, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
Hi m.o.p., as someone who occasionally looks at that page (and then washes my hands), I just want to compliment you as having done the right thing in full protecting. By way of unsolicited advice to the involved editors, the best thing they could do is to allow The Wrong Version to sit there a good long time, and devote their energy to other things. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:54, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
]
Yes, please reconsider your full protection of
WP:RS—deserve protection against misinformed reverts. Thanks Geremia (talk) 16:12, 22 September 2011 (UTC)]
Diffs of
- I'm not really sure where the ownership is here; nowhere in our policies is it stated that a user can't promote their RFC on the subject talk page. If it's ongoing and they'd like to move it to the forefront, what's wrong with that? More so, some of your summaries seem inaccurate - in that last diff, you state that Anupam is removing images, yet I only see Anupam adding an image (the peace dove that's at the top of the page). Also, you use repeating examples. m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Well clearly the last diff was wrong. Thanks for the vote of confidence. There are no repeat examples nor inaccurate summaries, just a mistaken copy paste of the second to last diff to the last position as well. I have fixed it. Cheers.
- Using "consensus claims from one RfC to reject changes made to article content
- Same as above. Using the "consensus" bludgeon to get his way. Please note that clearly we ought to edit by consensus, but this consensus is highly disputed, and IMO not there in the first place. The real problem is the way in which Anupam decides to use it like a trump card to remove changes he doesn't like. Ask yourself if all changes post "consensus" have been removed or just the ones Anupam decided he wanted removed.
Master of Puppets do you need more diffs or is this enough?Griswaldo (talk) 23:31, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Well I need more diffs because your "evidence" so far looks like a desperate attempt to incriminate an editor who has been very successful in persuading his colleagues to adopt his proposals. Anupam has presented his proposals, argued the merits and persuaded many editors. Anything you want to tell us about why you're having difficulty doing likewise? – Lionel (talk) 06:02, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- I don't see this is as conclusive evidence, either. And, it should be said - if people are editing against established consensus, then people are free to re-evaluate consensus, but edit-warring against it doesn't make much sense. m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- If not ownership then what is this - [28], [29], [30]? He removes two RfCs started by another editor, and revolving around the question that many of us actually find to be the fundamental question to answer regarding the entry. Then he edit wars to keep these RfCs off the page, claiming again to have some sort of authority stemming from your prior actions. If you aren't willing to do something here I'm going to another administrator and I'm going to ask for your initial "consensus," your strong arm administrating, and your lack of action here to be reviewed as well. Thanks.Griswaldo (talk) 17:08, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Anupam has already apologized for reverting those RfC additions, and we've moved past it. He also didn't claim to have administrative authority, but was waiting for my approval. We've cleared this up, it's not an issue. So no, I'm not going to take any action (as I've said here and on ANI). Now, if you'd like to threaten me and tell me that, since I'm not cooperating with your wills, you'll go to another administrator, that's fine - as I've said, you can seek outside opinions - but remember to keep a cool head, because borderline threats are not appreciated. m.o.p 21:49, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- It was not a threat, "borderline" or otherwise. You are conveniently ignoring a growing number of voices who are all saying the same thing - there is an ownership problem here. The deletion issue has not been "cleared up" as far as I'm concerned. Whenever it is mentioned Anupam insists that he did not "unilaterally" delete the RfCs from the page, which is a blatant distortion, since that is exactly what he did. He continues to act as a policeman at the page, and yes he does continue to cite your authority. Did you bother to read the many diffs I posted above in the second two sections? I will quote three random examples from those I provided for you if you want.
- When he first deleted the two RfCs he wrote: "rv - see discussion with reviewing administrator; approval needed to start another RfC while one is already occurring."
- When he deleted a fact tag that JimWae put into the lede: "rv excessive tagging per talk; tag is already extant in header; do not subvert previous consensus but gain consensus for potential additions per administrative notice"
- When he rejected another recent change to the entry: "accepted edits by User:Jkhwiki; rv removal of longstanding referenced content - see discussion on talk page and gain consensus for action per administrative injunction"
- In talk page comments and in edit summaries he consistently does the same thing. He refers to your authority, either directly or indirectly through your "notice" or your "injunction" as he likes to call it. I never said the claimed to have administrative authority, I said that he's using your authority, by way of your comments, such as the closure of the AfD to bully people. Do you deny that he citing your comments, because if you do then I must have fabricated those quotes. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:32, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
If you say "If you don't do A, then I'm going to go and do B", that's a threat. Anyway, that's not the issue - we've already covered all the issues with the RfC reverting, and Anupam won't do it again. Why keep raising hell over it?
We've already covered everything you bring up. And no, I'm not denying anything. I'm just saying this, and it's very simple: I don't think there has been any blatant ownership here. That's my judgment. If you disagree, again, feel free to raise this with another administrator or on ANI. m.o.p 23:12, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Regarding the new RFC, I still think there has not passed yet too much time since the last discussion about splitting the article. As far as I knew, repeating these sorts of debates (like splitting, deleting, renaming) before a larger amount of time has passed (like 6 months) is usually discouraged. And as others have also argued earlier, even if having multiple RFCs is possible, it's not very useful, and the new RFC seems to discourage further discussion about improving the lead introduction. So preventing multiple RFCs (and also a RFC about an issue debated not too long ago) does not look to me like evidence of bad faith intentions. Cody7777777 (talk) 21:37, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Cody, would you mind linking me to the previous RfC on splitting? m.o.p 21:49, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- The previous attempt to split the article can be found here. Cody7777777 (talk) 21:55, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Response
Yes, it does. Thanks, m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Dear User:Master of Puppets, I just noticed that User:Binksternet started another RfC while a current one is occurring. Is this appropriate? I reverted the addition motioning for one until your response is confirmed. If it is acceptable, then I apologize and will revert my edit. I look forward to your response. With regards, AnupamTalk 15:14, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'll form my reply on ANI. m.o.p 17:12, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- When you do please take into account my comment just above, regarding Anupam's edit warring to remove talk page comments (namely these RfCs) posted by others on the talk page. If you still don't think this is WP:OWN then clearly other administrators are needed here.Griswaldo (talk) 17:15, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Dear User:Griswaldo, how is going to a neutral mediator to address the issue owning the article? I acknowledge that the article is in dispute and as a result, I am asking an administrator for advice in this matter, NOT handling things on my own, as you have done by edit warring. Your WP:OWN allegations have not only been dismissed by this administrator, but by several other users, including, User:Lionelt, User:Cody7777777 and User:NYyankees51. Thanks, AnupamTalk 17:27, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- In reply to Griswaldo: reverting the RfCs was a mistake, but we've cleared that up now. As Anupam has stated at ANI, the intent was not to discourage discussion. If you think my judgment is compromised, you're welcome to seek another administrator's input. m.o.p 21:04, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- And as further evidence of WP:OWN, see this. Anupam adds a comment to everything that anyone else says, as if he/she is the owner of the article and everyone else is a subordinate contributor. This particular instance is pretty benign (although it clutters up the talk page with an unnecessary comment that merely says "I agree"), but I do think that Anupam at least needs to learn how to avoid giving the appearance of thinking he/she owns the article, and to desist from chipping in and saying the same thing over and over again, which almost makes meaningful discussion impossible! SNALWIBMA ( talk - contribs ) 17:31, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- While the input is appreciated, as I've said before, making allegations of ownership without hard evidence isn't going to get us anywhere. Anupam is not stopping others from discussing changes or forming consensus, and that's all that matters - refactoring the talk page or commenting on an issue is not against policy, and I'm not going to tell someone to stop editing because it "looks" like they're doing something wrong. As said above, you're welcome to request another administrator's insight if you wish. m.o.p 21:04, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
COIHi
you've helped me out before, with a conflict of interest problem, so having much more experience than me on wikipedia, I thought I would be bold enough to ask again for help.
Similar problem to last, User_talk:Hobbycraft is editing the HOBBYCRAFT article and making changes that aren't citably right. I think the user name suggest and history suggests a conflict of interest case.
Can you please, speak to them addressing this issue.
Thank you very much for your help.
Markcoulter50 (talk) 22:27, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
- I've blocked that user for username violations. Thanks a lot for letting me know! Keep up the great work, m.o.p 23:00, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkbackcausa sui (talk) 18:47, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Hello. You have a new message at causa sui's talk page. causa sui (talk) 20:54, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Problematic editing on militant atheism
- I hope it's not considered defamatory to repeat the final line: "I merely present the diffs above, and let others draw their own conclusions. Is this a duck? Does it quack? You decide.". Unfortunately, the concerned community no longer has that opportunity. What did you decide on their behalf? Does this duck quack, or not? bobrayner (talk) 15:42, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- It's not your wording, it's the very idea of it. Going to what's allegorically a public place and shouting, "Hey, everybody, this man is a criminal!" is one step below blatantly forming a lynch mob. As I've said, I have no problem with your wording or evidence, just your location of choice. Wikipedia is not, unfortunately, a democracy - letting others draw their conclusions and voice their opinions is not how a sockpuppet investigation works.
- So yes, please don't go restoring any of that section. We're not discussing editors, we're discussing the content they produce. Anything else has a sub-board to deal with it (like WP:SPI).
- Hopefully that clears things up! I'll be happy to answer any more questions should you have them. Cheers, m.o.p 15:48, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Hello User:Bobrayner, I noticed the section you created on the militant atheism talk page. If you do feel the way you do about User:Turnsalso and the anonymous IP Addresses, you can take this up with WP:SPI. Thanks, AnupamTalk 15:52, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
Are you kidding my MoP? Above your write: Going to what's allegorically a public place and shouting, "Hey, everybody, this man is a criminal!" is one step below blatantly forming a lynch mob. AND We're not discussing editors, we're discussing the content they produce. Yet you call this edit by Lionelt "good faith," at WQA? MoP, I would not ask you to agree with me or to like me, but can I please ask you not to insult me with these double standards.Griswaldo (talk) 16:18, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
]
- Griswaldo, I mean no offense when I say this, but I'd appreciate it if you stayed out of discussions which didn't involve you. Also, please don't put words in my mouth. Thanks, m.o.p 16:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I have not put words in your mouth. You said that you would assume good faith about Lionel. If you "assume good faith" it means you assume his edits were in "good faith." If you did not intend that meaning I suggest you reconsider what you wrote. Also, if you want me to "stay out of discussion which don't involve me" then I suggest your first order of business should be to do the same thing yourself. You decided to post at WQA, when there was no mention of you or anything you've done in that thread. Once again, I expect people not to practice double standards. So as long as you cannot show me that you will treat me as you ask to be treated yourself, I will not oblige you. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:21, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Please stop bickering. I'm not quite sure what you're trying to accomplish here. I've already explained what I meant when I said assuming good faith, but I'll explain again: I assumed that Lionelt was not hounding or deliberately haranguing you. I did not say, at any point, that his edit content was good faith, and I've told him not to edit like that again. So please stop accusing me of saying things I haven't said.
- Also, I posted in WQA because, as a mediator in this case and as an administrator, it's my duty to weigh in on administrative noticeboards, especially when the case is an ongoing discussion I've been participating in for three months. It is not your duty to weigh in on discussions on my talk page that don't concern you. I hope the distinction is clear here. m.o.p 20:33, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I think you are confused about something. Content is never good faith. "Editing in good faith" and "good faith edits" refers to the intent of the editor always. It has nothing to do with content. My assumption that you also felt the edits were appropriate comes from the fact that you did not say they weren't appropriate and clearly feel that his intentions were good. If you'd like to set the record straight on that issue you still can. I've asked you twice now to discuss the actual edits that are the focal point of the thread. Also, I moved the thread to ANI, per the suggestion of the editor who marked it "resolved."Griswaldo (talk) 20:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- See Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#User:Lionelt_--_following_my_past_edits_to_drum_up_support_against_me. FYI, I copy pasted the entire discussion because both you and Collect were critical of my initial post and I thought it was the right thing to do to preserve that criticism in the record of the conversation. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:43, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- In reply to your first paragraph: I'm going to give up now, as it seems you're misunderstanding most of what I type, but you're the one who stated that the content was not good faith (as you said, not appropriate), and I agreed - I referred to his intent in replying to you, and said that I assumed good faith in his motives, not his replies. I can't really say that in a clearer way, so my apologies if it's hard to understand. Also, as I've already said, I've left a message for Lionelt about his edits, so clearly I do not feel they're appropriate. m.o.p 20:57, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I, too, find these double standards vexing.
- Which diff is defamatory?
- I had hitherto thought that people on the article talkpage might like to be aware of potential problems with votestacking on the article talkpage (and 3rr evasion, of course). Would it be permitted to add a link to that list of diffs when it's in a different place, or would you consider that defamatory too? bobrayner (talk) 16:23, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- As I said, the information is not defamatory, but the way it's presented is - we have specific processes available to pursue should one feel there are sockpuppets about. However, calling someone out with the intent of informing the community is overstepping your authority and damaging to the accused's character. Also, there's no way a community discussion about whether or not one editor is a sockpuppet can end in anything other than a sockpuppet investigation anyway.
- So, in closing, please don't bring issues like this to the talk page. If you're concerned about votestacking, take it to the appropriate venue - if your concerns are validated, we'll take measures against said puppets. Cheers, m.o.p 16:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I am very disappointed that it's no longer permissible to raise problems with article-editing on the article talkpage. Previous concerns about sockpuppetry were simply ignored; the difference this time is that it's backed by lots of diffs.
- I'm fairly confident that the people concerned have sufficient technical nous to make checkuser draw a blank. And, let's be entirely honest, within minutes of me creating an SPI, an admin of the right persuasion will be getting an email suggesting that an SPI needs their attention. And SPI does not see offsite coordination by a facebook group &c. Finally, any null result at SPI will be used at the article in much the same way as previous administrative decisions have been. So, I do not believe that an SPI will improve either the article, or the encyclopædia as a whole. bobrayner (talk) 17:08, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- If you don't think the pre-existing methods set in place for situations like this are sufficient, you can always raise that concern at the village pump or suggest a policy revision - however, SPI is the venue for these requests, and the only venue. The talk page can not substitute. m.o.p 17:10, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
76.228.226.122Thank you for blocking the anonymous user, who is being counterproductive and rude. (although I think the block should have been one week, but I guess ok at least)
Can you also please try to hide the edit summaries of these edits if possible?
This and
this
Thanks and regards, talk 05:04, 26 September 2011 (UTC)]
- I'll extend the block if this behaviour continues after the block period is over.
- As for the edit summaries, those don't warrant hiding - I apologize for their content, but they don't meet the criteria of what I should remove. It's best just to ignore them for now. Cheers, m.o.p 05:13, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
- Okay, good to know, if I did nothing wrong, no permanent block will be enforced. The IP does not volunteer on WP as an admin and so the disproportionately out of line comments and threats of his should be ignored. --talk 05:19, 26 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Sounds good. We only hide extremely offensive revisions; milder ones stay in the edit history. Thanks again for bringing this to our attention! Cheers, m.o.p 05:31, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
Email
Jasper Deng (talk) 05:29, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
- Reading. talk) 06:00, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Bad Girls Club
- I've blocked Junebea for 2 days for disregarding warnings. m.o.p 20:30, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks for helping :) Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 21:06, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkback
- And again.Griswaldo (talk) 04:24, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
- And again ... but maybe the last. You can settle this question once and for all. See the talk page.Griswaldo (talk) 06:09, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'm sure I'm not alone in wanting to hear your replies to the last responses posed to you at that page. IMO, I don't know why you went down the road you did, but as far as I can tell you're blatantly misrepesenting facts about your own actions when people are brining concerns to you. You might think that since you closed the RfC the matter is settled, but it is not. You're actions have not made my life any more pleasant in the last few days vis-a-vis trying to deal with Anupam's disruption and I think you owe us all answers. So please revisit this thread and deal with the open questions. Thanks.Griswaldo (talk) 02:19, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
- I invite you to stop asking the same question again and again. This would be appreciated. Thanks, m.o.p 02:33, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Block question
- No, I just block obviously bad-faith accounts on sight. Advertising/spam accounts fall under that category. m.o.p 00:37, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Thanks
- Thank you. I've unlocked the article for whatever may come. If I'm needed again, feel free to let me know. Thanks for the kind words again, m.o.p 05:12, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
reminder
- We're still waiting to see if the user understands COI policy (per Ed's question). I'll prod the user and see if they'll answer. talk) 19:20, 30 September 2011 (UTC)]
Nextel logo deleted
- Mmm, good point. What's the link to the logo in question? m.o.p 01:33, 2 October 2011 (UTC)
Support of Sage City SymphonyYou deleted this page before I had a chance to go back in and add the stuff that you wanted to see, including the links within Wikipedia to important composers such as Lou Callabro (who started this orchestra and cites it in his Wikipedia page) and Susan Hurley whose work we premiered (SC is also mentioned in her Wikipedia entry). (Let alone links about the works we have performed.) And we have a web site at www.sagecitysymphony.org, have existed for over 35 yrs and are a significant cultural resource in the Bennington area such that we receive grants from local, statewide and national foundations.
I broke my wrist last weekend and am doing one-handed pecking so it'll take me a few days to get that loaded in. We are going out for a bit now, but I would appreciate your undeleting the page so that I don't have to re-invent the starting part when I go back in tomorrow to add links. Or delete it entirely so that I can start fresh - at this point either would work as long as I can start some serious work on it tomorrow. I am the webmaster by the way, so I do have access to content and more links.
Thank you, Celia Murray — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.228.127.119 (talk) 14:22, 1 October 2011 (UTC)
- It looks like fixed everything up. Best of luck, m.o.p 01:35, 2 October 2011 (UTC)]
Reply on Deterence's talk page
MA
After the beating you took you deserve a cold one--on me! Thanks for being fair and balanced – Lionel (talk) 03:55, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
- Hey, thanks! Glad to help out. :) m.o.p 03:56, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
Deletion of Mau5trap Recordings
--neocharles (talk) 07:33, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Existence does not equal notability - the subject has to be notable to get a Wikipedia page. m.o.p 12:05, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
Questoin re: AIV
- Addendum, actually, I read it very clearly in WP:VANDNOT: "Uploading or using material on Wikipedia in violation of Wikipedia's copyright policies is prohibited, but is not vandalism unless the user does so maliciously or fails to heed warnings." So if a person fails to heed warnings it is vandalism. My mistake here was that I only warned once. --Muhandes (talk) 12:29, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Eh, technically it is vandalism, but the user seems to be trying to improve the Wikipedia - that desire to help is misplaced in this case, as they seem to think that using copyrighted content is actually better. Weird. For most cases, yes, you should report copyvio to AIV - as long as they've been warned sufficiently. m.o.p 12:42, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- OK, he now did it again and the time stamp is after your last warning. Is it vandalism now? --Muhandes (talk) 12:32, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Yeah, if they're outright ignoring warnings. I've blocked for three days. m.o.p 12:40, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
Classmusic
- Oh, I know. But if somebody's lied to my face about using another account - and to other editors working on the article - I'm not about to let them go without a repercussion or two. I'd like Almost-instinct and Voceditnore to look over the article and fix up anything shifty. Also, I'd like Classmusic to respond to my warning, instead of blanking it and ignoring like they have to the above-named editors.
- So, in short, I know that COI doesn't bar editing, but it's enough of a concern that, given the user's recent behaviour, I'll stop them from doing anything until we've figured things out. This isn't too rouge-y, is it? I didn't hear that. Perhaps he is unaware of the sockpuppet investigation findings. Anyhow it seems that DeltaQuad has also blocked the Classmusic account. I left a note on his page about using the unblock template, but re-iterated that he needs to read the COI and Autobiography guidelines and stick to them scrupulously, if he gets unblocked. In the Opera and Classical Music WikiProjects, we get a lot of articles for performers, ensembles, etc. created by their agents and PR people, and often themselves. In my experience, the best I can hope for after one of these tussles is that they'll edit their article according to the guidelines in future. I have yet to find a single one who has ever contributed anything else to Wikipedia. Their only interest in the project is as a PR tool. Having said that, at least it results (after much red-pencilling from other editors) in one new article on a notable subject that we didn't have before and in a small way redresses the pop culture systemic bias here. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 13:40, 5 October 2011 (UTC)]
Danish election
- Never mind, it's been pulled by another admin. All the best, Jenks24 (talk) 11:03, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry about that! I was busy all day and didn't get your message until now. Thanks for letting me know, though! Cheers, m.o.p 19:51, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
3RRHey there! :)
Well WP:CRYSTAL has wined down, however, there's currently a
The Bad Girls Club (season 7). I have notified the two users [32], [33]. The evidence can be found here. They are having an edit-conflict on how the "Duration of cast" should be presented. Since there's no rules regarding anything like that, and it was made up about a year ago, I couldn't warned them to stop their e/c with anything except the 3RR rule. Maybe they need an admin to tell them to stop, so that's why I came to you :) Thanks, Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 01:17, 6 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Temporary page protection requested. Calabe1992 (talk) 01:29, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
- I guess I should also mention that the way I found it, was that someone tried submitting it to Fark.com last night. The admins did not greenlight it, so that particular submission/thread did not go to the main Fark page, appearing only to those with Totalfark accounts. The submission said something like "Wikipedia deletes burning man" (I'm not at a computer with TF access so I might not have that exactly right). It might, theoretically, based on the submission, be considered some sort of off-site canvassing (it was submitted with the asinine tag). For what its worth, the thread went uncommented, so I don't think that particular attempt garnered any support. I just wanted to drop a line in case that this was just the first drop of a large storm. If I see anything else, I'll drop a line here. Umbralcorax (talk) 15:58, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
Wiki ad
4chan raid
Thomas James Bell, new information
- (reliable sources. --Orange Mike | Talk 13:33, 30 June 2011 (UTC)]
Happy Birthday
![](//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3d/Nuvola_apps_cookie.svg/50px-Nuvola_apps_cookie.svg.png)
Just a happy Birthday message to you, Master of Puppets, from the Wikipedia Birthday Committee! Have a great day!
Monterey Bay (talk) 02:00, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
User:BillyMoses
Natami
AFD
- Your input is appreciated, though there's nothing I can do with it but take a note. If you'd like, you can weigh in at the next AfD(s), when/if they arise. Cheers, m.o.p 19:42, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
Dr Myko San – Health from Mushrooms
- I'd be happy to help! However, I'm currently away from a computer (typing this on my phone), so I'll have to check in on the 11th of July. Does that sound okay? m.o.p 15:40, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
- wp:NODEADLINE :-) LeadSongDog come howl! 15:48, 7 July 2011 (UTC)]
From a former Wikipedian
-71.234.90.0 (talk) 04:50, 8 July 2011 (UTC)
- Hey, thanks so much! I'm not sure who you are, but I really appreciate the sentiment. Hope all is well! m.o.p 20:49, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
Deletion review for Thomas James Ball
DRV comment
DRV
Could you please overturn the deletion of these files per File:Signature of Amitabh Bachchan.svg and File:Signature of Zakir Hussain.svg:
- File:Signature of Vishwanathan Anand.svg
- File:Signature of Vijay Mallya.svg
- File:Signature of Venkaiah Naidu.svg
- File:Signature of Sudeep Bandhopadhyay.svg
- File:Signature of Sonia Gandhi.svg
- File:Signature of Somnath Chatterjee.svg
- File:Signature of Ratan Tata.svg
- File:Signature of Kumar Mangalam Birla.svg
- File:Signature of Rajeev Shukla.svg
- File:Signature of Raj Babbar.svg
- File:Signature of Rahul Gandhi.svg
- File:Signature of Priyanka Vadra.svg
- File:Signature of P. T. Usha.svg
- File:Signature of Narendra Modi.svg
- File:Signature of Nandan Nilekani.svg
- File:Signature of Manish Tewari.svg
- File:Signature of Leander Paes.svg
- File:Signature of Lata Mangeshkar.svg
- File:Signature of Kumar Mangalam Birla.svg
- File:Signature of Karia Munda.svg
- File:Signature of Kapil Sibal.svg
- File:Signature of Kamal Nath.svg
- File:Signature of K. Kamraj.svg
- File:Signature of Jaya Bachchan.svg
- File:Signature of Gautam Gambhir.svg
- File:Signature of Brinda Karat.svg
- File:Signature of Bharatsinh Solanki.svg
- File:Signature of Bhairon Singh Shekhawat.svg
- File:Signature of B. K. Birla.svg
- File:Signature of Azim Premji.svg
- File:Signature of Arun Jaitely.svg
- File:Signature of Aishwarya Rai Bachchan.svg
- File:Signature of Abhishek Manu Singhvi.svg
- File:Signature of Abhishek Bachchan.svg
- File:Signature of Sting.svg
- File:Signature of Br. L. D. Lobo.svg
- File:Signature of VJ Rannvijay Singh Singha.svg
Diligent07Appears to be less than new. See User talk:Raoulduke25 where he states that this is a deliberate series of edits.
- Can you please help defend our collective effort of including the obscene middle-finger incident in the Cheney Mason article? It should be maintained in the article for public interest, etc. Please see the Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard#Cheney Mason discussion page and include your thoughts in favor of having the content remain in the interests of the public, etc
[8], [9] and even imputation that an editor has a connection with the person [10]. He has been on since April, and started off as being experienced on WP IMHO. Kindly keep an eye out please. Especially for any sign of a real "collective effort"? Such as [11]? Cheers. Collect (talk) 11:36, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
A cookie for you!
Keep up the good work defending the "Wiki" against genre warriors. Thanks for the help! talk) 17:31, 13 July 2011 (UTC)]
Hello. You have a new message at Lionelt's talk page.
Semi protection
OK, this thing with the militant atheism page is impossibleThese guys are incredible... I could dig up diffs to show you how they revert and wikilawyer even the SMALLEST attempt to move the article closer to NPOV. But that would take a long time for you to read. How about I show you this instead:
These guys are utterly without scruples. Who in their right mind would remove the NPOV dispute tag when heated arguments have been raging for weeks and NO moves whatsoever have been made to fix the article? Oh right, that would be someone in their right mind who is running a propaganda platform.
Anyway... I wanted to ask your advice on what to do. These guys are impossible to work with. Most of the other editors have given up and refuse to put this page on their watchlist. So what to do then? Request formal mediation? Articles for deletion? Something else?
Me and the other editors would like to see the page replaced with a disambiguation page... since literally ALL the content has already been covered (better) in Criticism of atheism, State atheism and New Atheism.
Obhave (talk) 13:21, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
- Hello User:Master of Puppets. I noticed this conversation and thought I might add that an NPOV policy. Obhave (talk) 13:11, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
- One more thing, m.o.p... my opponents are currently twisting your words to make it look as if you were scolding user:Mann_jess all along. Obhave (talk) 14:42, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
]
User:Jasper Deng page protection
- No worries! m.o.p 19:35, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
Is there a procedure for brutal uncollaborated editing with a destructive intent?I noticed that you recently had problems with proposed brutal editing by Peter S Strempel. Although he has been more sensible on your project in the end (possibly because of your administrator status?) he has not been so with regard to the astrology project pages to which he made a similar 'razor-promise'. Could you please see this Afd request which is one of three he made for major 'history of astrology' articles within the last hour, with a promise on another important page that any comment which is not refrences within 7 days will be removed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Babylonian_astrology
Is there anything that can be done about this officially to stop him wreaking havoc with content whilst he knows that the small group of editors providing content on these pages are already stretched to the limit trying to keep up with what needs to be done? I don't understand what drives some people to want to edit WP like this, but I think it is entriely the result of his ego-stress that when he proposed an edit for a passage, no one favoured it. Hope you can help or advise Zac Δ talk 01:15, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks! assume good faith; I believe that Peter is simply trying to help improve Wikipedia. While his methods may be lacking in some areas, he has displayed a pretty decent grasp on the policies he's trying to enforce.
- However, I agree that he shouldn't be making any changes if they're not discussed with the community first. Do you mind pulling up a few diffs of where he went against consensus? I'll approach him with your concern then. Thanks, m.o.p 03:57, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
- Actually there hasn't been any significant content dispute with Peter. He proposed a change to a section edit which wasn't a very good proposition and a few editors commented but without rancur, and I added a new section post immediately afterwards to point out the proiposed change would contradict with how the definition was given correctly at a later point in the article, outlining how I understood WP policy expected the main astrology article to pull its own content together, along with its summarised content from its daughter pages. Peter never responded to this but other editors started working in that direction immediately. Then, without further discussion or comment, Peter came back four days later to announce an intention to take his 'word razor' to all unreferenced assertions on the main astrology page, its sub-pages, and the portal page itself, to ensure his perceived disagreement was not circumvented in pages he viewed as content forks (I'm still not sure what he means by that). My response to that can be seen - a perfectly reasonable request for him to do what he felt was most productive, but consider that citation-tagging was the way to go. I also placed comments on his talk-page, which you can read if you are interested. That he erupted into a frenzy of AfD requests last night says something, I think, about his unwillingness to discuss and engage in other views. Most of his posts appear as new section declarations that don't appear to have considered the responses other editors give him.
- I've summarised this in the ANI request Dougweller started. The deletion requests were a step too far IMO, and I'm concerned that Peter would spring to such drastic measures in reaction to what he perceives to be me not allowing him to do what he wants to do. I'll be away for a few days so I'm tying up my WP activity now. That underlines my concern that he intends to take such drastic action with only one week's notice of intent. Thanks for looking into this. It would be good if something could be proposed to stop huge problems before they occur. 10:35, 22 July 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zachariel (talk • contribs
)
- One last request. I have just noticed that a related complaint, which is quite serious but has been sidetracked (deliberatly IMO) by Peter's suggestions that I have prevented him from doing what he wants, has been collapsed as "going nowehere" by an unsympathetic editor.
- "Its ben here several days and no admin has even sniffed at a block or ban - clearly you're not going to get admin action. So this should got to WP:DR or WP:RFCU if you want to take it further. I've boldly collapsed this, though I won't be surprised if someone uncollapses it"
- If you can find the time could you at least take a look at that related problem, and consider uncollapsing it, because the issues are serious and have gone beyond the point where Dispute resolution are appropriate. I will be away and have nothing more to add, but the problems identified still remain. Zac Δ talk 10:58, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
What to do?
- I've started a threat at ANI. Those AfDs are purely pointy and if no one objects I'll close them. talk) 06:11, 22 July 2011 (UTC)]
- Replied there. m.o.p 08:20, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
Talk Page on Militant Atheism - Introduction Section
- The update is appreciated, thanks very much. I've been dealing with life for the past two weeks, but I'll be back to close that discussion tonight or tomorrow. Thanks again, m.o.p 22:03, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
- Just bringing this up again, given the current state of this section. I believe the discussion will be archived automatically if not closed. I'm sorry if I sound pushy with you having a lot on your plate of late. If you would prefer, I could alert User:Fastily instead. Turnsalso (talk) 16:55, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
ITN
- I knew that tab I closed had unfinished business on it... thanks. 2008 University of Central Arkansas shootings is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.
The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2008 University of Central Arkansas shootings(2nd nomination) until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on good quality evidence, and our policies and guidelines.
Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article.
talk 14:00, 1 September 2011 (UTC)]
Hey
- Done! Both your userpage and the transcluded page are protected. Cheers, « ₣M₣ » 04:09, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Restored. m.o.p 05:21, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
]
User talk:Joshua the Independent
- My mistake - my block script auto-filled the edit summary. The block was issued due to the user's newfound will to disrupt Wikipedia intentionally. Their previous contributions are welcome, but this behaviour necessitates administrative action. m.o.p 21:52, 13 September 2011 (UTC)
Say hi to your imaginary girlfriend for me
- Well, I do love getting hate mail. Thanks for the laugh! Cheers, m.o.p 05:17, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
...further to the above lovely note, I weighed in on Calabe's talk page - there appears to be more confusion here than at first glance. bou·le·var·dier (talk) 05:19, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
Sorry to drop by again, but Silentsizzlingsausage (talk · contribs) would appear to be a duck. bou·le·var·dier (talk) 05:31, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
- No, it's not an issue! Thanks for the note, blocked. Cheers, WP:SPI. Thanks again, m.o.p 06:13, 14 September 2011 (UTC)]
I have to admit ...
- See the above section. The link is apparently a very subtle spam link that Calabe is removing, and socks are springing up to revert him. Swarm u / t 10:20, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
Moderation
- Alright, I'll make my way back. Thanks for letting me know! m.o.p 05:18, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
User:12.139.96.228
- To be honest, this case is perplexing. Half of this user's edits are constructive (mostly sourced), the other half aren't sourced - and the user won't reply to anybody. I'm also too busy to go through every edit and confirm whether or not it's good. I forgot about this for a while - I'll think about it tonight and figure something out for tomorrow. Thanks for reminding me! m.o.p 05:18, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
Whoops
- Whoops! Must not have been looking when I ran my block script. Thanks for letting me know, I've reblocked them for a far shorter (technically, an infinitely shorter) time. Cheers, m.o.p 22:58, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
Ashleyleggat404
- You're fully right in that the blanking policy covers indefinite blocks. I've removed the user's talk page rights as a result. Thanks again! m.o.p 00:28, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkback
Moderation
- If you look into this please consider whether Anupam's actions on the talk page and the entry itself are violations of WP:OWN. He's been driving off those he disagrees with by bludgening them to death with argument and heavily policing the entry claiming that there is a consensus written in stone despite many dissenting voices. Others have taken to simply calling him "the article's owner." I have had enough of this behavior personally and left him a message about it on his talk page. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:52, 20 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Dear User:Master of Puppets, the above user has misrepresented the occurrences at the article. I started another Introduction discussion at the article's talk page but User:Griswaldo has chosen to edit war over a second NPOV tag, despite the fact that one already exists in the article. He has done so despite the fact that the Introduction is being discussed in a peaceful manner at the talk page, in violation of your injunction: "We've only got consensus on this proposed versions (and loose consensus at that) - please do not attempt to subvert said consensus by making undiscussed changes." I have posted a message on his talk page about this behaviour. Nevertheless, I also do not wish to argue with the user personally and would prefer if you could go back to moderating the discussion between the two parties at the talk page. Thanks for taking the time to read this message. With regards, AnupamTalk 20:58, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- His "injunction?" Adding a neutrality tag to a specific sentence which an editor disputes the neutrality of is hardly "subverting the consensus by making undiscussed changes." Please stop wikilawyering to get your way. There is a growing consensus against your position regarding this article in general as well, despite your aggressive policing of the entry and the talk page. See ]
- I just thought that I would mention that User:Griswaldo, after seeing this message, just now decided to comment in the discussion rather than edit war against consensus further. Thanks for taking the time to read this message. With regards, AnupamTalk 21:51, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- "Edit war against consensus further?" My comment there has nothing to do with your message here. I've made three total edits to this entry ever. One was a copy edit in June, another was reverting an IP vandal, and the third was the revert of your Ownership edit. Please do not insinuate that I'm a edit warrior on this page. It is disingenuous.Griswaldo (talk) 22:08, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Thank you all for approaching me with your concerns.
- Obviously, I do not support Anupam - this is because I'm remaining a neutral third party, and, therefore, can't take sides. However, Griswaldo: please keep in mind that I did ask for all discussion to take place on the talk page. Why not just add your complaints to the talk page? It would have been much easier to discuss.
- I do agree that adding a NPOV tag, while slightly redundant, isn't horrible, but your intent seems to have been to stir discussion on that particular section, discussion that would be much more appropriate on the talk page.
- As for your and Snalwibma's concerns of Anupam trying to 'own' the article, I'm curious as to what you two mean; what 'delusions'?
- Also, Griswaldo, I don't think Anupam meant to insinuate you are an edit warrior (though this is just my take) - rather, they wanted to add the note that you've weighed in on discussion. m.o.p 22:10, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- your intent seems to have been to stir discussion on that particular section - No that's incorrect. I didn't add this tag, I simply reverted Anupam's attempt to own the page when he removed it. I agreed with JimWae's addition of the tag and found Anupam's removal to be unwarranted and a display of ownership.Griswaldo (talk) 22:16, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Note that, for all intents and purposes, reverting somebody is adding whatever is included in your edit, regardless of who put it there first. You revert a removal, you're agreeing with the edition you're reverting to - simple.
- And, if you agreed with JimWae, then we go back to what I was saying earlier - say so on the talk page. Two of you agree? Great! That's closer to consensus. But it means nothing if you express your support by reverting removals.
- Again, as I've asked multiple times, please stop saying that Anupam is owning anything without giving me evidence of it first. m.o.p 22:22, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Dear User:Master of Puppets, thank you for your reply to all of us. The reason User:Snalwibma stated that I was attempting to "own" the article was because I reverted an undiscussed removal from the article, which not only myself, but two other users objected to. In fact, two anonymous IP Addresses also reverted User:Snalwibma. I was open to compromise on the issue and stated that I would accept User:Turnsalso's compromise on the issue. I kindly request you to look at that discussion yourself and get an honest reading of it. Also, the only reason I removed the second NPOV tag was because there was already one present, which I did not remove. I only reverted the addition of a second NPOV tag once and even explained myself on the talk page. When I went to the talk page, I found rude accusations and an anti-collaborative spirit, despite the fact that I have been nothing but polite. I hope this helps. With regards, AnupamTalk 22:25, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry - I know I should not rise to the bait, but I have to object to the comment "The reason User:Snalwibma stated that I was attempting to 'own' the article was because I reverted an undiscussed removal ..." How dare Anupam presume to know what is in my mind! The reason I describe Anupam's attitude to the article as one of ownership is because that is how s/he behaves - "policing" every edit, pronouncing on whether s/he "accepts" or "rejects" it, peremptorily reverting anything s/he does not like, without discussion, presuming to know others' motives, and judging them as fit/unfit to contribute to the article. This has been going on for weeks, if not months. It is impossible to discuss the content of the article, let alone improve the text, because everything is filtered through the approval/disapproval of the article's self-appointed guardian, Anupam. tendentious or disruptive when they bring up certain issues, even when they are clearly in the majority. That is not collaborative. I stopped editing the article heavily because of those issues. I don't have any delusions that my opinion is worth more than anyone else's here, but I would think that the large number of established, experienced editors who are all saying there's a problem, would indicate something. — Jess· Δ♥ 19:45, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
Please reconsider your full protection of Militant atheist
- In case you didn't notice, I asked that people think twice about pointing fingers at each other. If you'd like to start a sockpuppetry investigation, let me know, and we can take that avenue - however, don't accuse other editors of ownership without substance. If you think Anupam is trying to own things, give me something. Diffs, edits, anything. I'll check it out for you, but right now, baseless accusations are not what I'm looking for.
- Also, notice that I protected the article with your edit being the last one. How is that validating the very person you've been reverting?
- The protection will stay until consensus is reached. m.o.p 22:19, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Because protection is what he wants quite clearly. He's stalling conversation and shouting down people on the talk page, where, if you have a look, you'll see he's clearly in the minority. Because of your "injunction" as he calls it, he also claims that no matter how many people agree with a certain change it is illegitimate. I'll be happy to gather some diffs, but my first message to you above was to please look into the situation carefully before acting on it. Did you do that and come to the conclusion that I'm wrong or did you not head that request? Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:29, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Yes, I did heed your request. I don't see any ownership behaviour from Anupam, though, being involved in multiple disputes, I didn't have the time to read every last word on the page, so you're free to provide evidence. However, from what I can see, Anupam's last proposal was supported by the majority - not to count (and I don't mean to imply that I decide where consensus lies by looking at pure numbers), but from looking at pure supports versus opposes, eight people (nine including Anupam) support while four oppose. How does that make Anupam's views a minority? m.o.p 22:37, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- It depends on what view you are talking about. The current RFC on the introduction is something that most people don't even want to engage because most people think this very entry should be split up and integrated into other entries. I reluctantly engaged the RfC just now myself. The last time the more serious question about the entry was asked, several of the new commentators were not around, and there was "no consensus" found because the opposing side was chalk full of SPAs and editors with a view that is outright hostile to atheism (which is a legitimate view to hold, but it is a minority view). Let me find you some diffs.Griswaldo (talk) 22:43, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- User:Griswaldo, that is exactly the issue: you do not want to collaborate with other users on the talk page, which is why you were reluctant to participate in the current RfC. Moreover, there were several SPA's on the side of the opposition as well, including WP:NPOV. In addition, the split was again recently discussed and the specific case to do so was refuted by several editors. As such, there was no consensus for it. I hope this helps. With regards, AnupamTalk 22:52, 20 September 2011 (UTC)]
- No. You are trying to write an article that violates WP:SYNTH because it conflates New Atheism with oppressive communist regimes and their histories of violence. That's hardly NPOV. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:59, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
Hi m.o.p., as someone who occasionally looks at that page (and then washes my hands), I just want to compliment you as having done the right thing in full protecting. By way of unsolicited advice to the involved editors, the best thing they could do is to allow The Wrong Version to sit there a good long time, and devote their energy to other things. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:54, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
]
Yes, please reconsider your full protection of
WP:RS—deserve protection against misinformed reverts. Thanks Geremia (talk) 16:12, 22 September 2011 (UTC)]
Diffs of
- I'm not really sure where the ownership is here; nowhere in our policies is it stated that a user can't promote their RFC on the subject talk page. If it's ongoing and they'd like to move it to the forefront, what's wrong with that? More so, some of your summaries seem inaccurate - in that last diff, you state that Anupam is removing images, yet I only see Anupam adding an image (the peace dove that's at the top of the page). Also, you use repeating examples. m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Well clearly the last diff was wrong. Thanks for the vote of confidence. There are no repeat examples nor inaccurate summaries, just a mistaken copy paste of the second to last diff to the last position as well. I have fixed it. Cheers.
- Using "consensus claims from one RfC to reject changes made to article content
- Same as above. Using the "consensus" bludgeon to get his way. Please note that clearly we ought to edit by consensus, but this consensus is highly disputed, and IMO not there in the first place. The real problem is the way in which Anupam decides to use it like a trump card to remove changes he doesn't like. Ask yourself if all changes post "consensus" have been removed or just the ones Anupam decided he wanted removed.
Master of Puppets do you need more diffs or is this enough?Griswaldo (talk) 23:31, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Well I need more diffs because your "evidence" so far looks like a desperate attempt to incriminate an editor who has been very successful in persuading his colleagues to adopt his proposals. Anupam has presented his proposals, argued the merits and persuaded many editors. Anything you want to tell us about why you're having difficulty doing likewise? – Lionel (talk) 06:02, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- I don't see this is as conclusive evidence, either. And, it should be said - if people are editing against established consensus, then people are free to re-evaluate consensus, but edit-warring against it doesn't make much sense. m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- If not ownership then what is this - [28], [29], [30]? He removes two RfCs started by another editor, and revolving around the question that many of us actually find to be the fundamental question to answer regarding the entry. Then he edit wars to keep these RfCs off the page, claiming again to have some sort of authority stemming from your prior actions. If you aren't willing to do something here I'm going to another administrator and I'm going to ask for your initial "consensus," your strong arm administrating, and your lack of action here to be reviewed as well. Thanks.Griswaldo (talk) 17:08, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Anupam has already apologized for reverting those RfC additions, and we've moved past it. He also didn't claim to have administrative authority, but was waiting for my approval. We've cleared this up, it's not an issue. So no, I'm not going to take any action (as I've said here and on ANI). Now, if you'd like to threaten me and tell me that, since I'm not cooperating with your wills, you'll go to another administrator, that's fine - as I've said, you can seek outside opinions - but remember to keep a cool head, because borderline threats are not appreciated. m.o.p 21:49, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- It was not a threat, "borderline" or otherwise. You are conveniently ignoring a growing number of voices who are all saying the same thing - there is an ownership problem here. The deletion issue has not been "cleared up" as far as I'm concerned. Whenever it is mentioned Anupam insists that he did not "unilaterally" delete the RfCs from the page, which is a blatant distortion, since that is exactly what he did. He continues to act as a policeman at the page, and yes he does continue to cite your authority. Did you bother to read the many diffs I posted above in the second two sections? I will quote three random examples from those I provided for you if you want.
- When he first deleted the two RfCs he wrote: "rv - see discussion with reviewing administrator; approval needed to start another RfC while one is already occurring."
- When he deleted a fact tag that JimWae put into the lede: "rv excessive tagging per talk; tag is already extant in header; do not subvert previous consensus but gain consensus for potential additions per administrative notice"
- When he rejected another recent change to the entry: "accepted edits by User:Jkhwiki; rv removal of longstanding referenced content - see discussion on talk page and gain consensus for action per administrative injunction"
- In talk page comments and in edit summaries he consistently does the same thing. He refers to your authority, either directly or indirectly through your "notice" or your "injunction" as he likes to call it. I never said the claimed to have administrative authority, I said that he's using your authority, by way of your comments, such as the closure of the AfD to bully people. Do you deny that he citing your comments, because if you do then I must have fabricated those quotes. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:32, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
If you say "If you don't do A, then I'm going to go and do B", that's a threat. Anyway, that's not the issue - we've already covered all the issues with the RfC reverting, and Anupam won't do it again. Why keep raising hell over it?
We've already covered everything you bring up. And no, I'm not denying anything. I'm just saying this, and it's very simple: I don't think there has been any blatant ownership here. That's my judgment. If you disagree, again, feel free to raise this with another administrator or on ANI. m.o.p 23:12, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Regarding the new RFC, I still think there has not passed yet too much time since the last discussion about splitting the article. As far as I knew, repeating these sorts of debates (like splitting, deleting, renaming) before a larger amount of time has passed (like 6 months) is usually discouraged. And as others have also argued earlier, even if having multiple RFCs is possible, it's not very useful, and the new RFC seems to discourage further discussion about improving the lead introduction. So preventing multiple RFCs (and also a RFC about an issue debated not too long ago) does not look to me like evidence of bad faith intentions. Cody7777777 (talk) 21:37, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Cody, would you mind linking me to the previous RfC on splitting? m.o.p 21:49, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- The previous attempt to split the article can be found here. Cody7777777 (talk) 21:55, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Response
Yes, it does. Thanks, m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Dear User:Master of Puppets, I just noticed that User:Binksternet started another RfC while a current one is occurring. Is this appropriate? I reverted the addition motioning for one until your response is confirmed. If it is acceptable, then I apologize and will revert my edit. I look forward to your response. With regards, AnupamTalk 15:14, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'll form my reply on ANI. m.o.p 17:12, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- When you do please take into account my comment just above, regarding Anupam's edit warring to remove talk page comments (namely these RfCs) posted by others on the talk page. If you still don't think this is WP:OWN then clearly other administrators are needed here.Griswaldo (talk) 17:15, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Dear User:Griswaldo, how is going to a neutral mediator to address the issue owning the article? I acknowledge that the article is in dispute and as a result, I am asking an administrator for advice in this matter, NOT handling things on my own, as you have done by edit warring. Your WP:OWN allegations have not only been dismissed by this administrator, but by several other users, including, User:Lionelt, User:Cody7777777 and User:NYyankees51. Thanks, AnupamTalk 17:27, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- In reply to Griswaldo: reverting the RfCs was a mistake, but we've cleared that up now. As Anupam has stated at ANI, the intent was not to discourage discussion. If you think my judgment is compromised, you're welcome to seek another administrator's input. m.o.p 21:04, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- And as further evidence of WP:OWN, see this. Anupam adds a comment to everything that anyone else says, as if he/she is the owner of the article and everyone else is a subordinate contributor. This particular instance is pretty benign (although it clutters up the talk page with an unnecessary comment that merely says "I agree"), but I do think that Anupam at least needs to learn how to avoid giving the appearance of thinking he/she owns the article, and to desist from chipping in and saying the same thing over and over again, which almost makes meaningful discussion impossible! SNALWIBMA ( talk - contribs ) 17:31, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- While the input is appreciated, as I've said before, making allegations of ownership without hard evidence isn't going to get us anywhere. Anupam is not stopping others from discussing changes or forming consensus, and that's all that matters - refactoring the talk page or commenting on an issue is not against policy, and I'm not going to tell someone to stop editing because it "looks" like they're doing something wrong. As said above, you're welcome to request another administrator's insight if you wish. m.o.p 21:04, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
COIHi
you've helped me out before, with a conflict of interest problem, so having much more experience than me on wikipedia, I thought I would be bold enough to ask again for help.
Similar problem to last, User_talk:Hobbycraft is editing the HOBBYCRAFT article and making changes that aren't citably right. I think the user name suggest and history suggests a conflict of interest case.
Can you please, speak to them addressing this issue.
Thank you very much for your help.
Markcoulter50 (talk) 22:27, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
- I've blocked that user for username violations. Thanks a lot for letting me know! Keep up the great work, m.o.p 23:00, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkbackcausa sui (talk) 18:47, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Hello. You have a new message at causa sui's talk page. causa sui (talk) 20:54, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Problematic editing on militant atheism
- I hope it's not considered defamatory to repeat the final line: "I merely present the diffs above, and let others draw their own conclusions. Is this a duck? Does it quack? You decide.". Unfortunately, the concerned community no longer has that opportunity. What did you decide on their behalf? Does this duck quack, or not? bobrayner (talk) 15:42, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- It's not your wording, it's the very idea of it. Going to what's allegorically a public place and shouting, "Hey, everybody, this man is a criminal!" is one step below blatantly forming a lynch mob. As I've said, I have no problem with your wording or evidence, just your location of choice. Wikipedia is not, unfortunately, a democracy - letting others draw their conclusions and voice their opinions is not how a sockpuppet investigation works.
- So yes, please don't go restoring any of that section. We're not discussing editors, we're discussing the content they produce. Anything else has a sub-board to deal with it (like WP:SPI).
- Hopefully that clears things up! I'll be happy to answer any more questions should you have them. Cheers, m.o.p 15:48, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Hello User:Bobrayner, I noticed the section you created on the militant atheism talk page. If you do feel the way you do about User:Turnsalso and the anonymous IP Addresses, you can take this up with WP:SPI. Thanks, AnupamTalk 15:52, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
Are you kidding my MoP? Above your write: Going to what's allegorically a public place and shouting, "Hey, everybody, this man is a criminal!" is one step below blatantly forming a lynch mob. AND We're not discussing editors, we're discussing the content they produce. Yet you call this edit by Lionelt "good faith," at WQA? MoP, I would not ask you to agree with me or to like me, but can I please ask you not to insult me with these double standards.Griswaldo (talk) 16:18, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
]
- Griswaldo, I mean no offense when I say this, but I'd appreciate it if you stayed out of discussions which didn't involve you. Also, please don't put words in my mouth. Thanks, m.o.p 16:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I have not put words in your mouth. You said that you would assume good faith about Lionel. If you "assume good faith" it means you assume his edits were in "good faith." If you did not intend that meaning I suggest you reconsider what you wrote. Also, if you want me to "stay out of discussion which don't involve me" then I suggest your first order of business should be to do the same thing yourself. You decided to post at WQA, when there was no mention of you or anything you've done in that thread. Once again, I expect people not to practice double standards. So as long as you cannot show me that you will treat me as you ask to be treated yourself, I will not oblige you. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:21, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Please stop bickering. I'm not quite sure what you're trying to accomplish here. I've already explained what I meant when I said assuming good faith, but I'll explain again: I assumed that Lionelt was not hounding or deliberately haranguing you. I did not say, at any point, that his edit content was good faith, and I've told him not to edit like that again. So please stop accusing me of saying things I haven't said.
- Also, I posted in WQA because, as a mediator in this case and as an administrator, it's my duty to weigh in on administrative noticeboards, especially when the case is an ongoing discussion I've been participating in for three months. It is not your duty to weigh in on discussions on my talk page that don't concern you. I hope the distinction is clear here. m.o.p 20:33, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I think you are confused about something. Content is never good faith. "Editing in good faith" and "good faith edits" refers to the intent of the editor always. It has nothing to do with content. My assumption that you also felt the edits were appropriate comes from the fact that you did not say they weren't appropriate and clearly feel that his intentions were good. If you'd like to set the record straight on that issue you still can. I've asked you twice now to discuss the actual edits that are the focal point of the thread. Also, I moved the thread to ANI, per the suggestion of the editor who marked it "resolved."Griswaldo (talk) 20:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- See Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#User:Lionelt_--_following_my_past_edits_to_drum_up_support_against_me. FYI, I copy pasted the entire discussion because both you and Collect were critical of my initial post and I thought it was the right thing to do to preserve that criticism in the record of the conversation. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:43, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- In reply to your first paragraph: I'm going to give up now, as it seems you're misunderstanding most of what I type, but you're the one who stated that the content was not good faith (as you said, not appropriate), and I agreed - I referred to his intent in replying to you, and said that I assumed good faith in his motives, not his replies. I can't really say that in a clearer way, so my apologies if it's hard to understand. Also, as I've already said, I've left a message for Lionelt about his edits, so clearly I do not feel they're appropriate. m.o.p 20:57, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I, too, find these double standards vexing.
- Which diff is defamatory?
- I had hitherto thought that people on the article talkpage might like to be aware of potential problems with votestacking on the article talkpage (and 3rr evasion, of course). Would it be permitted to add a link to that list of diffs when it's in a different place, or would you consider that defamatory too? bobrayner (talk) 16:23, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- As I said, the information is not defamatory, but the way it's presented is - we have specific processes available to pursue should one feel there are sockpuppets about. However, calling someone out with the intent of informing the community is overstepping your authority and damaging to the accused's character. Also, there's no way a community discussion about whether or not one editor is a sockpuppet can end in anything other than a sockpuppet investigation anyway.
- So, in closing, please don't bring issues like this to the talk page. If you're concerned about votestacking, take it to the appropriate venue - if your concerns are validated, we'll take measures against said puppets. Cheers, m.o.p 16:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I am very disappointed that it's no longer permissible to raise problems with article-editing on the article talkpage. Previous concerns about sockpuppetry were simply ignored; the difference this time is that it's backed by lots of diffs.
- I'm fairly confident that the people concerned have sufficient technical nous to make checkuser draw a blank. And, let's be entirely honest, within minutes of me creating an SPI, an admin of the right persuasion will be getting an email suggesting that an SPI needs their attention. And SPI does not see offsite coordination by a facebook group &c. Finally, any null result at SPI will be used at the article in much the same way as previous administrative decisions have been. So, I do not believe that an SPI will improve either the article, or the encyclopædia as a whole. bobrayner (talk) 17:08, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- If you don't think the pre-existing methods set in place for situations like this are sufficient, you can always raise that concern at the village pump or suggest a policy revision - however, SPI is the venue for these requests, and the only venue. The talk page can not substitute. m.o.p 17:10, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
76.228.226.122Thank you for blocking the anonymous user, who is being counterproductive and rude. (although I think the block should have been one week, but I guess ok at least)
Can you also please try to hide the edit summaries of these edits if possible?
This and
this
Thanks and regards, talk 05:04, 26 September 2011 (UTC)]
- I'll extend the block if this behaviour continues after the block period is over.
- As for the edit summaries, those don't warrant hiding - I apologize for their content, but they don't meet the criteria of what I should remove. It's best just to ignore them for now. Cheers, m.o.p 05:13, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
- Okay, good to know, if I did nothing wrong, no permanent block will be enforced. The IP does not volunteer on WP as an admin and so the disproportionately out of line comments and threats of his should be ignored. --talk 05:19, 26 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Sounds good. We only hide extremely offensive revisions; milder ones stay in the edit history. Thanks again for bringing this to our attention! Cheers, m.o.p 05:31, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
Email
Jasper Deng (talk) 05:29, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
- Reading. talk) 06:00, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Bad Girls Club
- I've blocked Junebea for 2 days for disregarding warnings. m.o.p 20:30, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks for helping :) Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 21:06, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkback
- And again.Griswaldo (talk) 04:24, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
- And again ... but maybe the last. You can settle this question once and for all. See the talk page.Griswaldo (talk) 06:09, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'm sure I'm not alone in wanting to hear your replies to the last responses posed to you at that page. IMO, I don't know why you went down the road you did, but as far as I can tell you're blatantly misrepesenting facts about your own actions when people are brining concerns to you. You might think that since you closed the RfC the matter is settled, but it is not. You're actions have not made my life any more pleasant in the last few days vis-a-vis trying to deal with Anupam's disruption and I think you owe us all answers. So please revisit this thread and deal with the open questions. Thanks.Griswaldo (talk) 02:19, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
- I invite you to stop asking the same question again and again. This would be appreciated. Thanks, m.o.p 02:33, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Block question
- No, I just block obviously bad-faith accounts on sight. Advertising/spam accounts fall under that category. m.o.p 00:37, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Thanks
- Thank you. I've unlocked the article for whatever may come. If I'm needed again, feel free to let me know. Thanks for the kind words again, m.o.p 05:12, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
reminder
- We're still waiting to see if the user understands COI policy (per Ed's question). I'll prod the user and see if they'll answer. talk) 19:20, 30 September 2011 (UTC)]
Nextel logo deleted
- Mmm, good point. What's the link to the logo in question? m.o.p 01:33, 2 October 2011 (UTC)
Support of Sage City SymphonyYou deleted this page before I had a chance to go back in and add the stuff that you wanted to see, including the links within Wikipedia to important composers such as Lou Callabro (who started this orchestra and cites it in his Wikipedia page) and Susan Hurley whose work we premiered (SC is also mentioned in her Wikipedia entry). (Let alone links about the works we have performed.) And we have a web site at www.sagecitysymphony.org, have existed for over 35 yrs and are a significant cultural resource in the Bennington area such that we receive grants from local, statewide and national foundations.
I broke my wrist last weekend and am doing one-handed pecking so it'll take me a few days to get that loaded in. We are going out for a bit now, but I would appreciate your undeleting the page so that I don't have to re-invent the starting part when I go back in tomorrow to add links. Or delete it entirely so that I can start fresh - at this point either would work as long as I can start some serious work on it tomorrow. I am the webmaster by the way, so I do have access to content and more links.
Thank you, Celia Murray — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.228.127.119 (talk) 14:22, 1 October 2011 (UTC)
- It looks like fixed everything up. Best of luck, m.o.p 01:35, 2 October 2011 (UTC)]
Reply on Deterence's talk page
MA
After the beating you took you deserve a cold one--on me! Thanks for being fair and balanced – Lionel (talk) 03:55, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
- Hey, thanks! Glad to help out. :) m.o.p 03:56, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
Deletion of Mau5trap Recordings
--neocharles (talk) 07:33, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Existence does not equal notability - the subject has to be notable to get a Wikipedia page. m.o.p 12:05, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
Questoin re: AIV
- Addendum, actually, I read it very clearly in WP:VANDNOT: "Uploading or using material on Wikipedia in violation of Wikipedia's copyright policies is prohibited, but is not vandalism unless the user does so maliciously or fails to heed warnings." So if a person fails to heed warnings it is vandalism. My mistake here was that I only warned once. --Muhandes (talk) 12:29, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Eh, technically it is vandalism, but the user seems to be trying to improve the Wikipedia - that desire to help is misplaced in this case, as they seem to think that using copyrighted content is actually better. Weird. For most cases, yes, you should report copyvio to AIV - as long as they've been warned sufficiently. m.o.p 12:42, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- OK, he now did it again and the time stamp is after your last warning. Is it vandalism now? --Muhandes (talk) 12:32, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Yeah, if they're outright ignoring warnings. I've blocked for three days. m.o.p 12:40, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
Classmusic
- Oh, I know. But if somebody's lied to my face about using another account - and to other editors working on the article - I'm not about to let them go without a repercussion or two. I'd like Almost-instinct and Voceditnore to look over the article and fix up anything shifty. Also, I'd like Classmusic to respond to my warning, instead of blanking it and ignoring like they have to the above-named editors.
- So, in short, I know that COI doesn't bar editing, but it's enough of a concern that, given the user's recent behaviour, I'll stop them from doing anything until we've figured things out. This isn't too rouge-y, is it? I didn't hear that. Perhaps he is unaware of the sockpuppet investigation findings. Anyhow it seems that DeltaQuad has also blocked the Classmusic account. I left a note on his page about using the unblock template, but re-iterated that he needs to read the COI and Autobiography guidelines and stick to them scrupulously, if he gets unblocked. In the Opera and Classical Music WikiProjects, we get a lot of articles for performers, ensembles, etc. created by their agents and PR people, and often themselves. In my experience, the best I can hope for after one of these tussles is that they'll edit their article according to the guidelines in future. I have yet to find a single one who has ever contributed anything else to Wikipedia. Their only interest in the project is as a PR tool. Having said that, at least it results (after much red-pencilling from other editors) in one new article on a notable subject that we didn't have before and in a small way redresses the pop culture systemic bias here. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 13:40, 5 October 2011 (UTC)]
Danish election
- Never mind, it's been pulled by another admin. All the best, Jenks24 (talk) 11:03, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry about that! I was busy all day and didn't get your message until now. Thanks for letting me know, though! Cheers, m.o.p 19:51, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
3RRHey there! :)
Well WP:CRYSTAL has wined down, however, there's currently a
The Bad Girls Club (season 7). I have notified the two users [32], [33]. The evidence can be found here. They are having an edit-conflict on how the "Duration of cast" should be presented. Since there's no rules regarding anything like that, and it was made up about a year ago, I couldn't warned them to stop their e/c with anything except the 3RR rule. Maybe they need an admin to tell them to stop, so that's why I came to you :) Thanks, Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 01:17, 6 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Temporary page protection requested. Calabe1992 (talk) 01:29, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
4chan raid
Thomas James Bell, new information
- (reliable sources. --Orange Mike | Talk 13:33, 30 June 2011 (UTC)]
Happy Birthday
![](//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3d/Nuvola_apps_cookie.svg/50px-Nuvola_apps_cookie.svg.png)
Just a happy Birthday message to you, Master of Puppets, from the Wikipedia Birthday Committee! Have a great day!
Monterey Bay (talk) 02:00, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
User:BillyMoses
Natami
AFD
- Your input is appreciated, though there's nothing I can do with it but take a note. If you'd like, you can weigh in at the next AfD(s), when/if they arise. Cheers, m.o.p 19:42, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
Dr Myko San – Health from Mushrooms
- I'd be happy to help! However, I'm currently away from a computer (typing this on my phone), so I'll have to check in on the 11th of July. Does that sound okay? m.o.p 15:40, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
- wp:NODEADLINE :-) LeadSongDog come howl! 15:48, 7 July 2011 (UTC)]
From a former Wikipedian
-71.234.90.0 (talk) 04:50, 8 July 2011 (UTC)
- Hey, thanks so much! I'm not sure who you are, but I really appreciate the sentiment. Hope all is well! m.o.p 20:49, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
Deletion review for Thomas James Ball
DRV comment
DRV
Could you please overturn the deletion of these files per File:Signature of Amitabh Bachchan.svg and File:Signature of Zakir Hussain.svg:
- File:Signature of Vishwanathan Anand.svg
- File:Signature of Vijay Mallya.svg
- File:Signature of Venkaiah Naidu.svg
- File:Signature of Sudeep Bandhopadhyay.svg
- File:Signature of Sonia Gandhi.svg
- File:Signature of Somnath Chatterjee.svg
- File:Signature of Ratan Tata.svg
- File:Signature of Kumar Mangalam Birla.svg
- File:Signature of Rajeev Shukla.svg
- File:Signature of Raj Babbar.svg
- File:Signature of Rahul Gandhi.svg
- File:Signature of Priyanka Vadra.svg
- File:Signature of P. T. Usha.svg
- File:Signature of Narendra Modi.svg
- File:Signature of Nandan Nilekani.svg
- File:Signature of Manish Tewari.svg
- File:Signature of Leander Paes.svg
- File:Signature of Lata Mangeshkar.svg
- File:Signature of Kumar Mangalam Birla.svg
- File:Signature of Karia Munda.svg
- File:Signature of Kapil Sibal.svg
- File:Signature of Kamal Nath.svg
- File:Signature of K. Kamraj.svg
- File:Signature of Jaya Bachchan.svg
- File:Signature of Gautam Gambhir.svg
- File:Signature of Brinda Karat.svg
- File:Signature of Bharatsinh Solanki.svg
- File:Signature of Bhairon Singh Shekhawat.svg
- File:Signature of B. K. Birla.svg
- File:Signature of Azim Premji.svg
- File:Signature of Arun Jaitely.svg
- File:Signature of Aishwarya Rai Bachchan.svg
- File:Signature of Abhishek Manu Singhvi.svg
- File:Signature of Abhishek Bachchan.svg
- File:Signature of Sting.svg
- File:Signature of Br. L. D. Lobo.svg
- File:Signature of VJ Rannvijay Singh Singha.svg
Diligent07Appears to be less than new. See User talk:Raoulduke25 where he states that this is a deliberate series of edits.
- Can you please help defend our collective effort of including the obscene middle-finger incident in the Cheney Mason article? It should be maintained in the article for public interest, etc. Please see the Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard#Cheney Mason discussion page and include your thoughts in favor of having the content remain in the interests of the public, etc
[8], [9] and even imputation that an editor has a connection with the person [10]. He has been on since April, and started off as being experienced on WP IMHO. Kindly keep an eye out please. Especially for any sign of a real "collective effort"? Such as [11]? Cheers. Collect (talk) 11:36, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
A cookie for you!
Keep up the good work defending the "Wiki" against genre warriors. Thanks for the help! talk) 17:31, 13 July 2011 (UTC)]
Hello. You have a new message at Lionelt's talk page.
Semi protection
OK, this thing with the militant atheism page is impossibleThese guys are incredible... I could dig up diffs to show you how they revert and wikilawyer even the SMALLEST attempt to move the article closer to NPOV. But that would take a long time for you to read. How about I show you this instead:
These guys are utterly without scruples. Who in their right mind would remove the NPOV dispute tag when heated arguments have been raging for weeks and NO moves whatsoever have been made to fix the article? Oh right, that would be someone in their right mind who is running a propaganda platform.
Anyway... I wanted to ask your advice on what to do. These guys are impossible to work with. Most of the other editors have given up and refuse to put this page on their watchlist. So what to do then? Request formal mediation? Articles for deletion? Something else?
Me and the other editors would like to see the page replaced with a disambiguation page... since literally ALL the content has already been covered (better) in Criticism of atheism, State atheism and New Atheism.
Obhave (talk) 13:21, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
- Hello User:Master of Puppets. I noticed this conversation and thought I might add that an NPOV policy. Obhave (talk) 13:11, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
- One more thing, m.o.p... my opponents are currently twisting your words to make it look as if you were scolding user:Mann_jess all along. Obhave (talk) 14:42, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
]
User:Jasper Deng page protection
- No worries! m.o.p 19:35, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
Is there a procedure for brutal uncollaborated editing with a destructive intent?I noticed that you recently had problems with proposed brutal editing by Peter S Strempel. Although he has been more sensible on your project in the end (possibly because of your administrator status?) he has not been so with regard to the astrology project pages to which he made a similar 'razor-promise'. Could you please see this Afd request which is one of three he made for major 'history of astrology' articles within the last hour, with a promise on another important page that any comment which is not refrences within 7 days will be removed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Babylonian_astrology
Is there anything that can be done about this officially to stop him wreaking havoc with content whilst he knows that the small group of editors providing content on these pages are already stretched to the limit trying to keep up with what needs to be done? I don't understand what drives some people to want to edit WP like this, but I think it is entriely the result of his ego-stress that when he proposed an edit for a passage, no one favoured it. Hope you can help or advise Zac Δ talk 01:15, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks! assume good faith; I believe that Peter is simply trying to help improve Wikipedia. While his methods may be lacking in some areas, he has displayed a pretty decent grasp on the policies he's trying to enforce.
- However, I agree that he shouldn't be making any changes if they're not discussed with the community first. Do you mind pulling up a few diffs of where he went against consensus? I'll approach him with your concern then. Thanks, m.o.p 03:57, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
- Actually there hasn't been any significant content dispute with Peter. He proposed a change to a section edit which wasn't a very good proposition and a few editors commented but without rancur, and I added a new section post immediately afterwards to point out the proiposed change would contradict with how the definition was given correctly at a later point in the article, outlining how I understood WP policy expected the main astrology article to pull its own content together, along with its summarised content from its daughter pages. Peter never responded to this but other editors started working in that direction immediately. Then, without further discussion or comment, Peter came back four days later to announce an intention to take his 'word razor' to all unreferenced assertions on the main astrology page, its sub-pages, and the portal page itself, to ensure his perceived disagreement was not circumvented in pages he viewed as content forks (I'm still not sure what he means by that). My response to that can be seen - a perfectly reasonable request for him to do what he felt was most productive, but consider that citation-tagging was the way to go. I also placed comments on his talk-page, which you can read if you are interested. That he erupted into a frenzy of AfD requests last night says something, I think, about his unwillingness to discuss and engage in other views. Most of his posts appear as new section declarations that don't appear to have considered the responses other editors give him.
- I've summarised this in the ANI request Dougweller started. The deletion requests were a step too far IMO, and I'm concerned that Peter would spring to such drastic measures in reaction to what he perceives to be me not allowing him to do what he wants to do. I'll be away for a few days so I'm tying up my WP activity now. That underlines my concern that he intends to take such drastic action with only one week's notice of intent. Thanks for looking into this. It would be good if something could be proposed to stop huge problems before they occur. 10:35, 22 July 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zachariel (talk • contribs
)
- One last request. I have just noticed that a related complaint, which is quite serious but has been sidetracked (deliberatly IMO) by Peter's suggestions that I have prevented him from doing what he wants, has been collapsed as "going nowehere" by an unsympathetic editor.
- "Its ben here several days and no admin has even sniffed at a block or ban - clearly you're not going to get admin action. So this should got to WP:DR or WP:RFCU if you want to take it further. I've boldly collapsed this, though I won't be surprised if someone uncollapses it"
- If you can find the time could you at least take a look at that related problem, and consider uncollapsing it, because the issues are serious and have gone beyond the point where Dispute resolution are appropriate. I will be away and have nothing more to add, but the problems identified still remain. Zac Δ talk 10:58, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
What to do?
- I've started a threat at ANI. Those AfDs are purely pointy and if no one objects I'll close them. talk) 06:11, 22 July 2011 (UTC)]
- Replied there. m.o.p 08:20, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
Talk Page on Militant Atheism - Introduction Section
- The update is appreciated, thanks very much. I've been dealing with life for the past two weeks, but I'll be back to close that discussion tonight or tomorrow. Thanks again, m.o.p 22:03, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
- Just bringing this up again, given the current state of this section. I believe the discussion will be archived automatically if not closed. I'm sorry if I sound pushy with you having a lot on your plate of late. If you would prefer, I could alert User:Fastily instead. Turnsalso (talk) 16:55, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
ITN
- I knew that tab I closed had unfinished business on it... thanks. 2008 University of Central Arkansas shootings is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.
The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2008 University of Central Arkansas shootings(2nd nomination) until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on good quality evidence, and our policies and guidelines.
Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article.
talk 14:00, 1 September 2011 (UTC)]
Hey
- Done! Both your userpage and the transcluded page are protected. Cheers, « ₣M₣ » 04:09, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Restored. m.o.p 05:21, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
]
User talk:Joshua the Independent
- My mistake - my block script auto-filled the edit summary. The block was issued due to the user's newfound will to disrupt Wikipedia intentionally. Their previous contributions are welcome, but this behaviour necessitates administrative action. m.o.p 21:52, 13 September 2011 (UTC)
Say hi to your imaginary girlfriend for me
- Well, I do love getting hate mail. Thanks for the laugh! Cheers, m.o.p 05:17, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
...further to the above lovely note, I weighed in on Calabe's talk page - there appears to be more confusion here than at first glance. bou·le·var·dier (talk) 05:19, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
Sorry to drop by again, but Silentsizzlingsausage (talk · contribs) would appear to be a duck. bou·le·var·dier (talk) 05:31, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
- No, it's not an issue! Thanks for the note, blocked. Cheers, WP:SPI. Thanks again, m.o.p 06:13, 14 September 2011 (UTC)]
I have to admit ...
- See the above section. The link is apparently a very subtle spam link that Calabe is removing, and socks are springing up to revert him. Swarm u / t 10:20, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
Moderation
- Alright, I'll make my way back. Thanks for letting me know! m.o.p 05:18, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
User:12.139.96.228
- To be honest, this case is perplexing. Half of this user's edits are constructive (mostly sourced), the other half aren't sourced - and the user won't reply to anybody. I'm also too busy to go through every edit and confirm whether or not it's good. I forgot about this for a while - I'll think about it tonight and figure something out for tomorrow. Thanks for reminding me! m.o.p 05:18, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
Whoops
- Whoops! Must not have been looking when I ran my block script. Thanks for letting me know, I've reblocked them for a far shorter (technically, an infinitely shorter) time. Cheers, m.o.p 22:58, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
Ashleyleggat404
- You're fully right in that the blanking policy covers indefinite blocks. I've removed the user's talk page rights as a result. Thanks again! m.o.p 00:28, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkback
Moderation
- If you look into this please consider whether Anupam's actions on the talk page and the entry itself are violations of WP:OWN. He's been driving off those he disagrees with by bludgening them to death with argument and heavily policing the entry claiming that there is a consensus written in stone despite many dissenting voices. Others have taken to simply calling him "the article's owner." I have had enough of this behavior personally and left him a message about it on his talk page. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:52, 20 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Dear User:Master of Puppets, the above user has misrepresented the occurrences at the article. I started another Introduction discussion at the article's talk page but User:Griswaldo has chosen to edit war over a second NPOV tag, despite the fact that one already exists in the article. He has done so despite the fact that the Introduction is being discussed in a peaceful manner at the talk page, in violation of your injunction: "We've only got consensus on this proposed versions (and loose consensus at that) - please do not attempt to subvert said consensus by making undiscussed changes." I have posted a message on his talk page about this behaviour. Nevertheless, I also do not wish to argue with the user personally and would prefer if you could go back to moderating the discussion between the two parties at the talk page. Thanks for taking the time to read this message. With regards, AnupamTalk 20:58, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- His "injunction?" Adding a neutrality tag to a specific sentence which an editor disputes the neutrality of is hardly "subverting the consensus by making undiscussed changes." Please stop wikilawyering to get your way. There is a growing consensus against your position regarding this article in general as well, despite your aggressive policing of the entry and the talk page. See ]
- I just thought that I would mention that User:Griswaldo, after seeing this message, just now decided to comment in the discussion rather than edit war against consensus further. Thanks for taking the time to read this message. With regards, AnupamTalk 21:51, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- "Edit war against consensus further?" My comment there has nothing to do with your message here. I've made three total edits to this entry ever. One was a copy edit in June, another was reverting an IP vandal, and the third was the revert of your Ownership edit. Please do not insinuate that I'm a edit warrior on this page. It is disingenuous.Griswaldo (talk) 22:08, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Thank you all for approaching me with your concerns.
- Obviously, I do not support Anupam - this is because I'm remaining a neutral third party, and, therefore, can't take sides. However, Griswaldo: please keep in mind that I did ask for all discussion to take place on the talk page. Why not just add your complaints to the talk page? It would have been much easier to discuss.
- I do agree that adding a NPOV tag, while slightly redundant, isn't horrible, but your intent seems to have been to stir discussion on that particular section, discussion that would be much more appropriate on the talk page.
- As for your and Snalwibma's concerns of Anupam trying to 'own' the article, I'm curious as to what you two mean; what 'delusions'?
- Also, Griswaldo, I don't think Anupam meant to insinuate you are an edit warrior (though this is just my take) - rather, they wanted to add the note that you've weighed in on discussion. m.o.p 22:10, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- your intent seems to have been to stir discussion on that particular section - No that's incorrect. I didn't add this tag, I simply reverted Anupam's attempt to own the page when he removed it. I agreed with JimWae's addition of the tag and found Anupam's removal to be unwarranted and a display of ownership.Griswaldo (talk) 22:16, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Note that, for all intents and purposes, reverting somebody is adding whatever is included in your edit, regardless of who put it there first. You revert a removal, you're agreeing with the edition you're reverting to - simple.
- And, if you agreed with JimWae, then we go back to what I was saying earlier - say so on the talk page. Two of you agree? Great! That's closer to consensus. But it means nothing if you express your support by reverting removals.
- Again, as I've asked multiple times, please stop saying that Anupam is owning anything without giving me evidence of it first. m.o.p 22:22, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Dear User:Master of Puppets, thank you for your reply to all of us. The reason User:Snalwibma stated that I was attempting to "own" the article was because I reverted an undiscussed removal from the article, which not only myself, but two other users objected to. In fact, two anonymous IP Addresses also reverted User:Snalwibma. I was open to compromise on the issue and stated that I would accept User:Turnsalso's compromise on the issue. I kindly request you to look at that discussion yourself and get an honest reading of it. Also, the only reason I removed the second NPOV tag was because there was already one present, which I did not remove. I only reverted the addition of a second NPOV tag once and even explained myself on the talk page. When I went to the talk page, I found rude accusations and an anti-collaborative spirit, despite the fact that I have been nothing but polite. I hope this helps. With regards, AnupamTalk 22:25, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry - I know I should not rise to the bait, but I have to object to the comment "The reason User:Snalwibma stated that I was attempting to 'own' the article was because I reverted an undiscussed removal ..." How dare Anupam presume to know what is in my mind! The reason I describe Anupam's attitude to the article as one of ownership is because that is how s/he behaves - "policing" every edit, pronouncing on whether s/he "accepts" or "rejects" it, peremptorily reverting anything s/he does not like, without discussion, presuming to know others' motives, and judging them as fit/unfit to contribute to the article. This has been going on for weeks, if not months. It is impossible to discuss the content of the article, let alone improve the text, because everything is filtered through the approval/disapproval of the article's self-appointed guardian, Anupam. tendentious or disruptive when they bring up certain issues, even when they are clearly in the majority. That is not collaborative. I stopped editing the article heavily because of those issues. I don't have any delusions that my opinion is worth more than anyone else's here, but I would think that the large number of established, experienced editors who are all saying there's a problem, would indicate something. — Jess· Δ♥ 19:45, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
Please reconsider your full protection of Militant atheist
- In case you didn't notice, I asked that people think twice about pointing fingers at each other. If you'd like to start a sockpuppetry investigation, let me know, and we can take that avenue - however, don't accuse other editors of ownership without substance. If you think Anupam is trying to own things, give me something. Diffs, edits, anything. I'll check it out for you, but right now, baseless accusations are not what I'm looking for.
- Also, notice that I protected the article with your edit being the last one. How is that validating the very person you've been reverting?
- The protection will stay until consensus is reached. m.o.p 22:19, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Because protection is what he wants quite clearly. He's stalling conversation and shouting down people on the talk page, where, if you have a look, you'll see he's clearly in the minority. Because of your "injunction" as he calls it, he also claims that no matter how many people agree with a certain change it is illegitimate. I'll be happy to gather some diffs, but my first message to you above was to please look into the situation carefully before acting on it. Did you do that and come to the conclusion that I'm wrong or did you not head that request? Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:29, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Yes, I did heed your request. I don't see any ownership behaviour from Anupam, though, being involved in multiple disputes, I didn't have the time to read every last word on the page, so you're free to provide evidence. However, from what I can see, Anupam's last proposal was supported by the majority - not to count (and I don't mean to imply that I decide where consensus lies by looking at pure numbers), but from looking at pure supports versus opposes, eight people (nine including Anupam) support while four oppose. How does that make Anupam's views a minority? m.o.p 22:37, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- It depends on what view you are talking about. The current RFC on the introduction is something that most people don't even want to engage because most people think this very entry should be split up and integrated into other entries. I reluctantly engaged the RfC just now myself. The last time the more serious question about the entry was asked, several of the new commentators were not around, and there was "no consensus" found because the opposing side was chalk full of SPAs and editors with a view that is outright hostile to atheism (which is a legitimate view to hold, but it is a minority view). Let me find you some diffs.Griswaldo (talk) 22:43, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- User:Griswaldo, that is exactly the issue: you do not want to collaborate with other users on the talk page, which is why you were reluctant to participate in the current RfC. Moreover, there were several SPA's on the side of the opposition as well, including WP:NPOV. In addition, the split was again recently discussed and the specific case to do so was refuted by several editors. As such, there was no consensus for it. I hope this helps. With regards, AnupamTalk 22:52, 20 September 2011 (UTC)]
- No. You are trying to write an article that violates WP:SYNTH because it conflates New Atheism with oppressive communist regimes and their histories of violence. That's hardly NPOV. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:59, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
Hi m.o.p., as someone who occasionally looks at that page (and then washes my hands), I just want to compliment you as having done the right thing in full protecting. By way of unsolicited advice to the involved editors, the best thing they could do is to allow The Wrong Version to sit there a good long time, and devote their energy to other things. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:54, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
]
Yes, please reconsider your full protection of
WP:RS—deserve protection against misinformed reverts. Thanks Geremia (talk) 16:12, 22 September 2011 (UTC)]
Diffs of
- I'm not really sure where the ownership is here; nowhere in our policies is it stated that a user can't promote their RFC on the subject talk page. If it's ongoing and they'd like to move it to the forefront, what's wrong with that? More so, some of your summaries seem inaccurate - in that last diff, you state that Anupam is removing images, yet I only see Anupam adding an image (the peace dove that's at the top of the page). Also, you use repeating examples. m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Well clearly the last diff was wrong. Thanks for the vote of confidence. There are no repeat examples nor inaccurate summaries, just a mistaken copy paste of the second to last diff to the last position as well. I have fixed it. Cheers.
- Using "consensus claims from one RfC to reject changes made to article content
- Same as above. Using the "consensus" bludgeon to get his way. Please note that clearly we ought to edit by consensus, but this consensus is highly disputed, and IMO not there in the first place. The real problem is the way in which Anupam decides to use it like a trump card to remove changes he doesn't like. Ask yourself if all changes post "consensus" have been removed or just the ones Anupam decided he wanted removed.
Master of Puppets do you need more diffs or is this enough?Griswaldo (talk) 23:31, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Well I need more diffs because your "evidence" so far looks like a desperate attempt to incriminate an editor who has been very successful in persuading his colleagues to adopt his proposals. Anupam has presented his proposals, argued the merits and persuaded many editors. Anything you want to tell us about why you're having difficulty doing likewise? – Lionel (talk) 06:02, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- I don't see this is as conclusive evidence, either. And, it should be said - if people are editing against established consensus, then people are free to re-evaluate consensus, but edit-warring against it doesn't make much sense. m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- If not ownership then what is this - [28], [29], [30]? He removes two RfCs started by another editor, and revolving around the question that many of us actually find to be the fundamental question to answer regarding the entry. Then he edit wars to keep these RfCs off the page, claiming again to have some sort of authority stemming from your prior actions. If you aren't willing to do something here I'm going to another administrator and I'm going to ask for your initial "consensus," your strong arm administrating, and your lack of action here to be reviewed as well. Thanks.Griswaldo (talk) 17:08, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Anupam has already apologized for reverting those RfC additions, and we've moved past it. He also didn't claim to have administrative authority, but was waiting for my approval. We've cleared this up, it's not an issue. So no, I'm not going to take any action (as I've said here and on ANI). Now, if you'd like to threaten me and tell me that, since I'm not cooperating with your wills, you'll go to another administrator, that's fine - as I've said, you can seek outside opinions - but remember to keep a cool head, because borderline threats are not appreciated. m.o.p 21:49, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- It was not a threat, "borderline" or otherwise. You are conveniently ignoring a growing number of voices who are all saying the same thing - there is an ownership problem here. The deletion issue has not been "cleared up" as far as I'm concerned. Whenever it is mentioned Anupam insists that he did not "unilaterally" delete the RfCs from the page, which is a blatant distortion, since that is exactly what he did. He continues to act as a policeman at the page, and yes he does continue to cite your authority. Did you bother to read the many diffs I posted above in the second two sections? I will quote three random examples from those I provided for you if you want.
- When he first deleted the two RfCs he wrote: "rv - see discussion with reviewing administrator; approval needed to start another RfC while one is already occurring."
- When he deleted a fact tag that JimWae put into the lede: "rv excessive tagging per talk; tag is already extant in header; do not subvert previous consensus but gain consensus for potential additions per administrative notice"
- When he rejected another recent change to the entry: "accepted edits by User:Jkhwiki; rv removal of longstanding referenced content - see discussion on talk page and gain consensus for action per administrative injunction"
- In talk page comments and in edit summaries he consistently does the same thing. He refers to your authority, either directly or indirectly through your "notice" or your "injunction" as he likes to call it. I never said the claimed to have administrative authority, I said that he's using your authority, by way of your comments, such as the closure of the AfD to bully people. Do you deny that he citing your comments, because if you do then I must have fabricated those quotes. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:32, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
If you say "If you don't do A, then I'm going to go and do B", that's a threat. Anyway, that's not the issue - we've already covered all the issues with the RfC reverting, and Anupam won't do it again. Why keep raising hell over it?
We've already covered everything you bring up. And no, I'm not denying anything. I'm just saying this, and it's very simple: I don't think there has been any blatant ownership here. That's my judgment. If you disagree, again, feel free to raise this with another administrator or on ANI. m.o.p 23:12, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Regarding the new RFC, I still think there has not passed yet too much time since the last discussion about splitting the article. As far as I knew, repeating these sorts of debates (like splitting, deleting, renaming) before a larger amount of time has passed (like 6 months) is usually discouraged. And as others have also argued earlier, even if having multiple RFCs is possible, it's not very useful, and the new RFC seems to discourage further discussion about improving the lead introduction. So preventing multiple RFCs (and also a RFC about an issue debated not too long ago) does not look to me like evidence of bad faith intentions. Cody7777777 (talk) 21:37, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Cody, would you mind linking me to the previous RfC on splitting? m.o.p 21:49, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- The previous attempt to split the article can be found here. Cody7777777 (talk) 21:55, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Response
Yes, it does. Thanks, m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Dear User:Master of Puppets, I just noticed that User:Binksternet started another RfC while a current one is occurring. Is this appropriate? I reverted the addition motioning for one until your response is confirmed. If it is acceptable, then I apologize and will revert my edit. I look forward to your response. With regards, AnupamTalk 15:14, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'll form my reply on ANI. m.o.p 17:12, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- When you do please take into account my comment just above, regarding Anupam's edit warring to remove talk page comments (namely these RfCs) posted by others on the talk page. If you still don't think this is WP:OWN then clearly other administrators are needed here.Griswaldo (talk) 17:15, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Dear User:Griswaldo, how is going to a neutral mediator to address the issue owning the article? I acknowledge that the article is in dispute and as a result, I am asking an administrator for advice in this matter, NOT handling things on my own, as you have done by edit warring. Your WP:OWN allegations have not only been dismissed by this administrator, but by several other users, including, User:Lionelt, User:Cody7777777 and User:NYyankees51. Thanks, AnupamTalk 17:27, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- In reply to Griswaldo: reverting the RfCs was a mistake, but we've cleared that up now. As Anupam has stated at ANI, the intent was not to discourage discussion. If you think my judgment is compromised, you're welcome to seek another administrator's input. m.o.p 21:04, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- And as further evidence of WP:OWN, see this. Anupam adds a comment to everything that anyone else says, as if he/she is the owner of the article and everyone else is a subordinate contributor. This particular instance is pretty benign (although it clutters up the talk page with an unnecessary comment that merely says "I agree"), but I do think that Anupam at least needs to learn how to avoid giving the appearance of thinking he/she owns the article, and to desist from chipping in and saying the same thing over and over again, which almost makes meaningful discussion impossible! SNALWIBMA ( talk - contribs ) 17:31, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- While the input is appreciated, as I've said before, making allegations of ownership without hard evidence isn't going to get us anywhere. Anupam is not stopping others from discussing changes or forming consensus, and that's all that matters - refactoring the talk page or commenting on an issue is not against policy, and I'm not going to tell someone to stop editing because it "looks" like they're doing something wrong. As said above, you're welcome to request another administrator's insight if you wish. m.o.p 21:04, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
COIHi
you've helped me out before, with a conflict of interest problem, so having much more experience than me on wikipedia, I thought I would be bold enough to ask again for help.
Similar problem to last, User_talk:Hobbycraft is editing the HOBBYCRAFT article and making changes that aren't citably right. I think the user name suggest and history suggests a conflict of interest case.
Can you please, speak to them addressing this issue.
Thank you very much for your help.
Markcoulter50 (talk) 22:27, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
- I've blocked that user for username violations. Thanks a lot for letting me know! Keep up the great work, m.o.p 23:00, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkbackcausa sui (talk) 18:47, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Hello. You have a new message at causa sui's talk page. causa sui (talk) 20:54, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Problematic editing on militant atheism
- I hope it's not considered defamatory to repeat the final line: "I merely present the diffs above, and let others draw their own conclusions. Is this a duck? Does it quack? You decide.". Unfortunately, the concerned community no longer has that opportunity. What did you decide on their behalf? Does this duck quack, or not? bobrayner (talk) 15:42, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- It's not your wording, it's the very idea of it. Going to what's allegorically a public place and shouting, "Hey, everybody, this man is a criminal!" is one step below blatantly forming a lynch mob. As I've said, I have no problem with your wording or evidence, just your location of choice. Wikipedia is not, unfortunately, a democracy - letting others draw their conclusions and voice their opinions is not how a sockpuppet investigation works.
- So yes, please don't go restoring any of that section. We're not discussing editors, we're discussing the content they produce. Anything else has a sub-board to deal with it (like WP:SPI).
- Hopefully that clears things up! I'll be happy to answer any more questions should you have them. Cheers, m.o.p 15:48, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Hello User:Bobrayner, I noticed the section you created on the militant atheism talk page. If you do feel the way you do about User:Turnsalso and the anonymous IP Addresses, you can take this up with WP:SPI. Thanks, AnupamTalk 15:52, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
Are you kidding my MoP? Above your write: Going to what's allegorically a public place and shouting, "Hey, everybody, this man is a criminal!" is one step below blatantly forming a lynch mob. AND We're not discussing editors, we're discussing the content they produce. Yet you call this edit by Lionelt "good faith," at WQA? MoP, I would not ask you to agree with me or to like me, but can I please ask you not to insult me with these double standards.Griswaldo (talk) 16:18, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
]
- Griswaldo, I mean no offense when I say this, but I'd appreciate it if you stayed out of discussions which didn't involve you. Also, please don't put words in my mouth. Thanks, m.o.p 16:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I have not put words in your mouth. You said that you would assume good faith about Lionel. If you "assume good faith" it means you assume his edits were in "good faith." If you did not intend that meaning I suggest you reconsider what you wrote. Also, if you want me to "stay out of discussion which don't involve me" then I suggest your first order of business should be to do the same thing yourself. You decided to post at WQA, when there was no mention of you or anything you've done in that thread. Once again, I expect people not to practice double standards. So as long as you cannot show me that you will treat me as you ask to be treated yourself, I will not oblige you. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:21, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Please stop bickering. I'm not quite sure what you're trying to accomplish here. I've already explained what I meant when I said assuming good faith, but I'll explain again: I assumed that Lionelt was not hounding or deliberately haranguing you. I did not say, at any point, that his edit content was good faith, and I've told him not to edit like that again. So please stop accusing me of saying things I haven't said.
- Also, I posted in WQA because, as a mediator in this case and as an administrator, it's my duty to weigh in on administrative noticeboards, especially when the case is an ongoing discussion I've been participating in for three months. It is not your duty to weigh in on discussions on my talk page that don't concern you. I hope the distinction is clear here. m.o.p 20:33, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I think you are confused about something. Content is never good faith. "Editing in good faith" and "good faith edits" refers to the intent of the editor always. It has nothing to do with content. My assumption that you also felt the edits were appropriate comes from the fact that you did not say they weren't appropriate and clearly feel that his intentions were good. If you'd like to set the record straight on that issue you still can. I've asked you twice now to discuss the actual edits that are the focal point of the thread. Also, I moved the thread to ANI, per the suggestion of the editor who marked it "resolved."Griswaldo (talk) 20:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- See Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#User:Lionelt_--_following_my_past_edits_to_drum_up_support_against_me. FYI, I copy pasted the entire discussion because both you and Collect were critical of my initial post and I thought it was the right thing to do to preserve that criticism in the record of the conversation. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:43, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- In reply to your first paragraph: I'm going to give up now, as it seems you're misunderstanding most of what I type, but you're the one who stated that the content was not good faith (as you said, not appropriate), and I agreed - I referred to his intent in replying to you, and said that I assumed good faith in his motives, not his replies. I can't really say that in a clearer way, so my apologies if it's hard to understand. Also, as I've already said, I've left a message for Lionelt about his edits, so clearly I do not feel they're appropriate. m.o.p 20:57, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I, too, find these double standards vexing.
- Which diff is defamatory?
- I had hitherto thought that people on the article talkpage might like to be aware of potential problems with votestacking on the article talkpage (and 3rr evasion, of course). Would it be permitted to add a link to that list of diffs when it's in a different place, or would you consider that defamatory too? bobrayner (talk) 16:23, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- As I said, the information is not defamatory, but the way it's presented is - we have specific processes available to pursue should one feel there are sockpuppets about. However, calling someone out with the intent of informing the community is overstepping your authority and damaging to the accused's character. Also, there's no way a community discussion about whether or not one editor is a sockpuppet can end in anything other than a sockpuppet investigation anyway.
- So, in closing, please don't bring issues like this to the talk page. If you're concerned about votestacking, take it to the appropriate venue - if your concerns are validated, we'll take measures against said puppets. Cheers, m.o.p 16:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I am very disappointed that it's no longer permissible to raise problems with article-editing on the article talkpage. Previous concerns about sockpuppetry were simply ignored; the difference this time is that it's backed by lots of diffs.
- I'm fairly confident that the people concerned have sufficient technical nous to make checkuser draw a blank. And, let's be entirely honest, within minutes of me creating an SPI, an admin of the right persuasion will be getting an email suggesting that an SPI needs their attention. And SPI does not see offsite coordination by a facebook group &c. Finally, any null result at SPI will be used at the article in much the same way as previous administrative decisions have been. So, I do not believe that an SPI will improve either the article, or the encyclopædia as a whole. bobrayner (talk) 17:08, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- If you don't think the pre-existing methods set in place for situations like this are sufficient, you can always raise that concern at the village pump or suggest a policy revision - however, SPI is the venue for these requests, and the only venue. The talk page can not substitute. m.o.p 17:10, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
76.228.226.122Thank you for blocking the anonymous user, who is being counterproductive and rude. (although I think the block should have been one week, but I guess ok at least)
Can you also please try to hide the edit summaries of these edits if possible?
This and
this
Thanks and regards, talk 05:04, 26 September 2011 (UTC)]
- I'll extend the block if this behaviour continues after the block period is over.
- As for the edit summaries, those don't warrant hiding - I apologize for their content, but they don't meet the criteria of what I should remove. It's best just to ignore them for now. Cheers, m.o.p 05:13, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
- Okay, good to know, if I did nothing wrong, no permanent block will be enforced. The IP does not volunteer on WP as an admin and so the disproportionately out of line comments and threats of his should be ignored. --talk 05:19, 26 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Sounds good. We only hide extremely offensive revisions; milder ones stay in the edit history. Thanks again for bringing this to our attention! Cheers, m.o.p 05:31, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
Email
Jasper Deng (talk) 05:29, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
- Reading. talk) 06:00, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Bad Girls Club
- I've blocked Junebea for 2 days for disregarding warnings. m.o.p 20:30, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks for helping :) Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 21:06, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkback
- And again.Griswaldo (talk) 04:24, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
- And again ... but maybe the last. You can settle this question once and for all. See the talk page.Griswaldo (talk) 06:09, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'm sure I'm not alone in wanting to hear your replies to the last responses posed to you at that page. IMO, I don't know why you went down the road you did, but as far as I can tell you're blatantly misrepesenting facts about your own actions when people are brining concerns to you. You might think that since you closed the RfC the matter is settled, but it is not. You're actions have not made my life any more pleasant in the last few days vis-a-vis trying to deal with Anupam's disruption and I think you owe us all answers. So please revisit this thread and deal with the open questions. Thanks.Griswaldo (talk) 02:19, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
- I invite you to stop asking the same question again and again. This would be appreciated. Thanks, m.o.p 02:33, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Block question
- No, I just block obviously bad-faith accounts on sight. Advertising/spam accounts fall under that category. m.o.p 00:37, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Thanks
- Thank you. I've unlocked the article for whatever may come. If I'm needed again, feel free to let me know. Thanks for the kind words again, m.o.p 05:12, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
reminder
- We're still waiting to see if the user understands COI policy (per Ed's question). I'll prod the user and see if they'll answer. talk) 19:20, 30 September 2011 (UTC)]
Nextel logo deleted
- Mmm, good point. What's the link to the logo in question? m.o.p 01:33, 2 October 2011 (UTC)
Support of Sage City SymphonyYou deleted this page before I had a chance to go back in and add the stuff that you wanted to see, including the links within Wikipedia to important composers such as Lou Callabro (who started this orchestra and cites it in his Wikipedia page) and Susan Hurley whose work we premiered (SC is also mentioned in her Wikipedia entry). (Let alone links about the works we have performed.) And we have a web site at www.sagecitysymphony.org, have existed for over 35 yrs and are a significant cultural resource in the Bennington area such that we receive grants from local, statewide and national foundations.
I broke my wrist last weekend and am doing one-handed pecking so it'll take me a few days to get that loaded in. We are going out for a bit now, but I would appreciate your undeleting the page so that I don't have to re-invent the starting part when I go back in tomorrow to add links. Or delete it entirely so that I can start fresh - at this point either would work as long as I can start some serious work on it tomorrow. I am the webmaster by the way, so I do have access to content and more links.
Thank you, Celia Murray — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.228.127.119 (talk) 14:22, 1 October 2011 (UTC)
- It looks like fixed everything up. Best of luck, m.o.p 01:35, 2 October 2011 (UTC)]
Reply on Deterence's talk page
MA
After the beating you took you deserve a cold one--on me! Thanks for being fair and balanced – Lionel (talk) 03:55, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
- Hey, thanks! Glad to help out. :) m.o.p 03:56, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
Deletion of Mau5trap Recordings
--neocharles (talk) 07:33, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Existence does not equal notability - the subject has to be notable to get a Wikipedia page. m.o.p 12:05, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
Questoin re: AIV
- Addendum, actually, I read it very clearly in WP:VANDNOT: "Uploading or using material on Wikipedia in violation of Wikipedia's copyright policies is prohibited, but is not vandalism unless the user does so maliciously or fails to heed warnings." So if a person fails to heed warnings it is vandalism. My mistake here was that I only warned once. --Muhandes (talk) 12:29, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Eh, technically it is vandalism, but the user seems to be trying to improve the Wikipedia - that desire to help is misplaced in this case, as they seem to think that using copyrighted content is actually better. Weird. For most cases, yes, you should report copyvio to AIV - as long as they've been warned sufficiently. m.o.p 12:42, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- OK, he now did it again and the time stamp is after your last warning. Is it vandalism now? --Muhandes (talk) 12:32, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Yeah, if they're outright ignoring warnings. I've blocked for three days. m.o.p 12:40, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
Classmusic
- Oh, I know. But if somebody's lied to my face about using another account - and to other editors working on the article - I'm not about to let them go without a repercussion or two. I'd like Almost-instinct and Voceditnore to look over the article and fix up anything shifty. Also, I'd like Classmusic to respond to my warning, instead of blanking it and ignoring like they have to the above-named editors.
- So, in short, I know that COI doesn't bar editing, but it's enough of a concern that, given the user's recent behaviour, I'll stop them from doing anything until we've figured things out. This isn't too rouge-y, is it? I didn't hear that. Perhaps he is unaware of the sockpuppet investigation findings. Anyhow it seems that DeltaQuad has also blocked the Classmusic account. I left a note on his page about using the unblock template, but re-iterated that he needs to read the COI and Autobiography guidelines and stick to them scrupulously, if he gets unblocked. In the Opera and Classical Music WikiProjects, we get a lot of articles for performers, ensembles, etc. created by their agents and PR people, and often themselves. In my experience, the best I can hope for after one of these tussles is that they'll edit their article according to the guidelines in future. I have yet to find a single one who has ever contributed anything else to Wikipedia. Their only interest in the project is as a PR tool. Having said that, at least it results (after much red-pencilling from other editors) in one new article on a notable subject that we didn't have before and in a small way redresses the pop culture systemic bias here. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 13:40, 5 October 2011 (UTC)]
Danish election
- Never mind, it's been pulled by another admin. All the best, Jenks24 (talk) 11:03, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry about that! I was busy all day and didn't get your message until now. Thanks for letting me know, though! Cheers, m.o.p 19:51, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
3RRHey there! :)
Well WP:CRYSTAL has wined down, however, there's currently a
The Bad Girls Club (season 7). I have notified the two users [32], [33]. The evidence can be found here. They are having an edit-conflict on how the "Duration of cast" should be presented. Since there's no rules regarding anything like that, and it was made up about a year ago, I couldn't warned them to stop their e/c with anything except the 3RR rule. Maybe they need an admin to tell them to stop, so that's why I came to you :) Thanks, Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 01:17, 6 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Temporary page protection requested. Calabe1992 (talk) 01:29, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
Thomas James Bell, new information
- (reliable sources. --Orange Mike | Talk 13:33, 30 June 2011 (UTC)]
Happy Birthday
Happy Birthday
![]() | Just a happy Birthday message to you, Master of Puppets, from the Wikipedia Birthday Committee! Have a great day! |
Monterey Bay (talk) 02:00, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
User:BillyMoses
Natami
AFD
- Your input is appreciated, though there's nothing I can do with it but take a note. If you'd like, you can weigh in at the next AfD(s), when/if they arise. Cheers, m.o.p 19:42, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
Dr Myko San – Health from Mushrooms
- I'd be happy to help! However, I'm currently away from a computer (typing this on my phone), so I'll have to check in on the 11th of July. Does that sound okay? m.o.p 15:40, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
- wp:NODEADLINE :-) LeadSongDog come howl! 15:48, 7 July 2011 (UTC)]
From a former Wikipedian
-71.234.90.0 (talk) 04:50, 8 July 2011 (UTC)
- Hey, thanks so much! I'm not sure who you are, but I really appreciate the sentiment. Hope all is well! m.o.p 20:49, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
Deletion review for Thomas James Ball
DRV comment
DRV
Could you please overturn the deletion of these files per File:Signature of Amitabh Bachchan.svg and File:Signature of Zakir Hussain.svg:
- File:Signature of Vishwanathan Anand.svg
- File:Signature of Vijay Mallya.svg
- File:Signature of Venkaiah Naidu.svg
- File:Signature of Sudeep Bandhopadhyay.svg
- File:Signature of Sonia Gandhi.svg
- File:Signature of Somnath Chatterjee.svg
- File:Signature of Ratan Tata.svg
- File:Signature of Kumar Mangalam Birla.svg
- File:Signature of Rajeev Shukla.svg
- File:Signature of Raj Babbar.svg
- File:Signature of Rahul Gandhi.svg
- File:Signature of Priyanka Vadra.svg
- File:Signature of P. T. Usha.svg
- File:Signature of Narendra Modi.svg
- File:Signature of Nandan Nilekani.svg
- File:Signature of Manish Tewari.svg
- File:Signature of Leander Paes.svg
- File:Signature of Lata Mangeshkar.svg
- File:Signature of Kumar Mangalam Birla.svg
- File:Signature of Karia Munda.svg
- File:Signature of Kapil Sibal.svg
- File:Signature of Kamal Nath.svg
- File:Signature of K. Kamraj.svg
- File:Signature of Jaya Bachchan.svg
- File:Signature of Gautam Gambhir.svg
- File:Signature of Brinda Karat.svg
- File:Signature of Bharatsinh Solanki.svg
- File:Signature of Bhairon Singh Shekhawat.svg
- File:Signature of B. K. Birla.svg
- File:Signature of Azim Premji.svg
- File:Signature of Arun Jaitely.svg
- File:Signature of Aishwarya Rai Bachchan.svg
- File:Signature of Abhishek Manu Singhvi.svg
- File:Signature of Abhishek Bachchan.svg
- File:Signature of Sting.svg
- File:Signature of Br. L. D. Lobo.svg
- File:Signature of VJ Rannvijay Singh Singha.svg
Diligent07Appears to be less than new. See User talk:Raoulduke25 where he states that this is a deliberate series of edits.
- Can you please help defend our collective effort of including the obscene middle-finger incident in the Cheney Mason article? It should be maintained in the article for public interest, etc. Please see the Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard#Cheney Mason discussion page and include your thoughts in favor of having the content remain in the interests of the public, etc
[8], [9] and even imputation that an editor has a connection with the person [10]. He has been on since April, and started off as being experienced on WP IMHO. Kindly keep an eye out please. Especially for any sign of a real "collective effort"? Such as [11]? Cheers. Collect (talk) 11:36, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
A cookie for you!
Keep up the good work defending the "Wiki" against genre warriors. Thanks for the help! talk) 17:31, 13 July 2011 (UTC)]
Hello. You have a new message at Lionelt's talk page.
Semi protection
OK, this thing with the militant atheism page is impossibleThese guys are incredible... I could dig up diffs to show you how they revert and wikilawyer even the SMALLEST attempt to move the article closer to NPOV. But that would take a long time for you to read. How about I show you this instead:
These guys are utterly without scruples. Who in their right mind would remove the NPOV dispute tag when heated arguments have been raging for weeks and NO moves whatsoever have been made to fix the article? Oh right, that would be someone in their right mind who is running a propaganda platform.
Anyway... I wanted to ask your advice on what to do. These guys are impossible to work with. Most of the other editors have given up and refuse to put this page on their watchlist. So what to do then? Request formal mediation? Articles for deletion? Something else?
Me and the other editors would like to see the page replaced with a disambiguation page... since literally ALL the content has already been covered (better) in Criticism of atheism, State atheism and New Atheism.
Obhave (talk) 13:21, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
- Hello User:Master of Puppets. I noticed this conversation and thought I might add that an NPOV policy. Obhave (talk) 13:11, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
- One more thing, m.o.p... my opponents are currently twisting your words to make it look as if you were scolding user:Mann_jess all along. Obhave (talk) 14:42, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
]
User:Jasper Deng page protection
- No worries! m.o.p 19:35, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
Is there a procedure for brutal uncollaborated editing with a destructive intent?I noticed that you recently had problems with proposed brutal editing by Peter S Strempel. Although he has been more sensible on your project in the end (possibly because of your administrator status?) he has not been so with regard to the astrology project pages to which he made a similar 'razor-promise'. Could you please see this Afd request which is one of three he made for major 'history of astrology' articles within the last hour, with a promise on another important page that any comment which is not refrences within 7 days will be removed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Babylonian_astrology
Is there anything that can be done about this officially to stop him wreaking havoc with content whilst he knows that the small group of editors providing content on these pages are already stretched to the limit trying to keep up with what needs to be done? I don't understand what drives some people to want to edit WP like this, but I think it is entriely the result of his ego-stress that when he proposed an edit for a passage, no one favoured it. Hope you can help or advise Zac Δ talk 01:15, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks! assume good faith; I believe that Peter is simply trying to help improve Wikipedia. While his methods may be lacking in some areas, he has displayed a pretty decent grasp on the policies he's trying to enforce.
- However, I agree that he shouldn't be making any changes if they're not discussed with the community first. Do you mind pulling up a few diffs of where he went against consensus? I'll approach him with your concern then. Thanks, m.o.p 03:57, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
- Actually there hasn't been any significant content dispute with Peter. He proposed a change to a section edit which wasn't a very good proposition and a few editors commented but without rancur, and I added a new section post immediately afterwards to point out the proiposed change would contradict with how the definition was given correctly at a later point in the article, outlining how I understood WP policy expected the main astrology article to pull its own content together, along with its summarised content from its daughter pages. Peter never responded to this but other editors started working in that direction immediately. Then, without further discussion or comment, Peter came back four days later to announce an intention to take his 'word razor' to all unreferenced assertions on the main astrology page, its sub-pages, and the portal page itself, to ensure his perceived disagreement was not circumvented in pages he viewed as content forks (I'm still not sure what he means by that). My response to that can be seen - a perfectly reasonable request for him to do what he felt was most productive, but consider that citation-tagging was the way to go. I also placed comments on his talk-page, which you can read if you are interested. That he erupted into a frenzy of AfD requests last night says something, I think, about his unwillingness to discuss and engage in other views. Most of his posts appear as new section declarations that don't appear to have considered the responses other editors give him.
- I've summarised this in the ANI request Dougweller started. The deletion requests were a step too far IMO, and I'm concerned that Peter would spring to such drastic measures in reaction to what he perceives to be me not allowing him to do what he wants to do. I'll be away for a few days so I'm tying up my WP activity now. That underlines my concern that he intends to take such drastic action with only one week's notice of intent. Thanks for looking into this. It would be good if something could be proposed to stop huge problems before they occur. 10:35, 22 July 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zachariel (talk • contribs
)
- One last request. I have just noticed that a related complaint, which is quite serious but has been sidetracked (deliberatly IMO) by Peter's suggestions that I have prevented him from doing what he wants, has been collapsed as "going nowehere" by an unsympathetic editor.
- "Its ben here several days and no admin has even sniffed at a block or ban - clearly you're not going to get admin action. So this should got to WP:DR or WP:RFCU if you want to take it further. I've boldly collapsed this, though I won't be surprised if someone uncollapses it"
- If you can find the time could you at least take a look at that related problem, and consider uncollapsing it, because the issues are serious and have gone beyond the point where Dispute resolution are appropriate. I will be away and have nothing more to add, but the problems identified still remain. Zac Δ talk 10:58, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
What to do?
- I've started a threat at ANI. Those AfDs are purely pointy and if no one objects I'll close them. talk) 06:11, 22 July 2011 (UTC)]
- Replied there. m.o.p 08:20, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
Talk Page on Militant Atheism - Introduction Section
- The update is appreciated, thanks very much. I've been dealing with life for the past two weeks, but I'll be back to close that discussion tonight or tomorrow. Thanks again, m.o.p 22:03, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
- Just bringing this up again, given the current state of this section. I believe the discussion will be archived automatically if not closed. I'm sorry if I sound pushy with you having a lot on your plate of late. If you would prefer, I could alert User:Fastily instead. Turnsalso (talk) 16:55, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
ITN
- I knew that tab I closed had unfinished business on it... thanks. 2008 University of Central Arkansas shootings is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.
The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2008 University of Central Arkansas shootings(2nd nomination) until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on good quality evidence, and our policies and guidelines.
Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article.
talk 14:00, 1 September 2011 (UTC)]
Hey
- Done! Both your userpage and the transcluded page are protected. Cheers, « ₣M₣ » 04:09, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Restored. m.o.p 05:21, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
]
User talk:Joshua the Independent
- My mistake - my block script auto-filled the edit summary. The block was issued due to the user's newfound will to disrupt Wikipedia intentionally. Their previous contributions are welcome, but this behaviour necessitates administrative action. m.o.p 21:52, 13 September 2011 (UTC)
Say hi to your imaginary girlfriend for me
- Well, I do love getting hate mail. Thanks for the laugh! Cheers, m.o.p 05:17, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
...further to the above lovely note, I weighed in on Calabe's talk page - there appears to be more confusion here than at first glance. bou·le·var·dier (talk) 05:19, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
Sorry to drop by again, but Silentsizzlingsausage (talk · contribs) would appear to be a duck. bou·le·var·dier (talk) 05:31, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
- No, it's not an issue! Thanks for the note, blocked. Cheers, WP:SPI. Thanks again, m.o.p 06:13, 14 September 2011 (UTC)]
I have to admit ...
- See the above section. The link is apparently a very subtle spam link that Calabe is removing, and socks are springing up to revert him. Swarm u / t 10:20, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
Moderation
- Alright, I'll make my way back. Thanks for letting me know! m.o.p 05:18, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
User:12.139.96.228
- To be honest, this case is perplexing. Half of this user's edits are constructive (mostly sourced), the other half aren't sourced - and the user won't reply to anybody. I'm also too busy to go through every edit and confirm whether or not it's good. I forgot about this for a while - I'll think about it tonight and figure something out for tomorrow. Thanks for reminding me! m.o.p 05:18, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
Whoops
- Whoops! Must not have been looking when I ran my block script. Thanks for letting me know, I've reblocked them for a far shorter (technically, an infinitely shorter) time. Cheers, m.o.p 22:58, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
Ashleyleggat404
- You're fully right in that the blanking policy covers indefinite blocks. I've removed the user's talk page rights as a result. Thanks again! m.o.p 00:28, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkback
Moderation
- If you look into this please consider whether Anupam's actions on the talk page and the entry itself are violations of WP:OWN. He's been driving off those he disagrees with by bludgening them to death with argument and heavily policing the entry claiming that there is a consensus written in stone despite many dissenting voices. Others have taken to simply calling him "the article's owner." I have had enough of this behavior personally and left him a message about it on his talk page. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:52, 20 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Dear User:Master of Puppets, the above user has misrepresented the occurrences at the article. I started another Introduction discussion at the article's talk page but User:Griswaldo has chosen to edit war over a second NPOV tag, despite the fact that one already exists in the article. He has done so despite the fact that the Introduction is being discussed in a peaceful manner at the talk page, in violation of your injunction: "We've only got consensus on this proposed versions (and loose consensus at that) - please do not attempt to subvert said consensus by making undiscussed changes." I have posted a message on his talk page about this behaviour. Nevertheless, I also do not wish to argue with the user personally and would prefer if you could go back to moderating the discussion between the two parties at the talk page. Thanks for taking the time to read this message. With regards, AnupamTalk 20:58, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- His "injunction?" Adding a neutrality tag to a specific sentence which an editor disputes the neutrality of is hardly "subverting the consensus by making undiscussed changes." Please stop wikilawyering to get your way. There is a growing consensus against your position regarding this article in general as well, despite your aggressive policing of the entry and the talk page. See ]
- I just thought that I would mention that User:Griswaldo, after seeing this message, just now decided to comment in the discussion rather than edit war against consensus further. Thanks for taking the time to read this message. With regards, AnupamTalk 21:51, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- "Edit war against consensus further?" My comment there has nothing to do with your message here. I've made three total edits to this entry ever. One was a copy edit in June, another was reverting an IP vandal, and the third was the revert of your Ownership edit. Please do not insinuate that I'm a edit warrior on this page. It is disingenuous.Griswaldo (talk) 22:08, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Thank you all for approaching me with your concerns.
- Obviously, I do not support Anupam - this is because I'm remaining a neutral third party, and, therefore, can't take sides. However, Griswaldo: please keep in mind that I did ask for all discussion to take place on the talk page. Why not just add your complaints to the talk page? It would have been much easier to discuss.
- I do agree that adding a NPOV tag, while slightly redundant, isn't horrible, but your intent seems to have been to stir discussion on that particular section, discussion that would be much more appropriate on the talk page.
- As for your and Snalwibma's concerns of Anupam trying to 'own' the article, I'm curious as to what you two mean; what 'delusions'?
- Also, Griswaldo, I don't think Anupam meant to insinuate you are an edit warrior (though this is just my take) - rather, they wanted to add the note that you've weighed in on discussion. m.o.p 22:10, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- your intent seems to have been to stir discussion on that particular section - No that's incorrect. I didn't add this tag, I simply reverted Anupam's attempt to own the page when he removed it. I agreed with JimWae's addition of the tag and found Anupam's removal to be unwarranted and a display of ownership.Griswaldo (talk) 22:16, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Note that, for all intents and purposes, reverting somebody is adding whatever is included in your edit, regardless of who put it there first. You revert a removal, you're agreeing with the edition you're reverting to - simple.
- And, if you agreed with JimWae, then we go back to what I was saying earlier - say so on the talk page. Two of you agree? Great! That's closer to consensus. But it means nothing if you express your support by reverting removals.
- Again, as I've asked multiple times, please stop saying that Anupam is owning anything without giving me evidence of it first. m.o.p 22:22, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Dear User:Master of Puppets, thank you for your reply to all of us. The reason User:Snalwibma stated that I was attempting to "own" the article was because I reverted an undiscussed removal from the article, which not only myself, but two other users objected to. In fact, two anonymous IP Addresses also reverted User:Snalwibma. I was open to compromise on the issue and stated that I would accept User:Turnsalso's compromise on the issue. I kindly request you to look at that discussion yourself and get an honest reading of it. Also, the only reason I removed the second NPOV tag was because there was already one present, which I did not remove. I only reverted the addition of a second NPOV tag once and even explained myself on the talk page. When I went to the talk page, I found rude accusations and an anti-collaborative spirit, despite the fact that I have been nothing but polite. I hope this helps. With regards, AnupamTalk 22:25, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry - I know I should not rise to the bait, but I have to object to the comment "The reason User:Snalwibma stated that I was attempting to 'own' the article was because I reverted an undiscussed removal ..." How dare Anupam presume to know what is in my mind! The reason I describe Anupam's attitude to the article as one of ownership is because that is how s/he behaves - "policing" every edit, pronouncing on whether s/he "accepts" or "rejects" it, peremptorily reverting anything s/he does not like, without discussion, presuming to know others' motives, and judging them as fit/unfit to contribute to the article. This has been going on for weeks, if not months. It is impossible to discuss the content of the article, let alone improve the text, because everything is filtered through the approval/disapproval of the article's self-appointed guardian, Anupam. tendentious or disruptive when they bring up certain issues, even when they are clearly in the majority. That is not collaborative. I stopped editing the article heavily because of those issues. I don't have any delusions that my opinion is worth more than anyone else's here, but I would think that the large number of established, experienced editors who are all saying there's a problem, would indicate something. — Jess· Δ♥ 19:45, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
Please reconsider your full protection of Militant atheist
- In case you didn't notice, I asked that people think twice about pointing fingers at each other. If you'd like to start a sockpuppetry investigation, let me know, and we can take that avenue - however, don't accuse other editors of ownership without substance. If you think Anupam is trying to own things, give me something. Diffs, edits, anything. I'll check it out for you, but right now, baseless accusations are not what I'm looking for.
- Also, notice that I protected the article with your edit being the last one. How is that validating the very person you've been reverting?
- The protection will stay until consensus is reached. m.o.p 22:19, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Because protection is what he wants quite clearly. He's stalling conversation and shouting down people on the talk page, where, if you have a look, you'll see he's clearly in the minority. Because of your "injunction" as he calls it, he also claims that no matter how many people agree with a certain change it is illegitimate. I'll be happy to gather some diffs, but my first message to you above was to please look into the situation carefully before acting on it. Did you do that and come to the conclusion that I'm wrong or did you not head that request? Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:29, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Yes, I did heed your request. I don't see any ownership behaviour from Anupam, though, being involved in multiple disputes, I didn't have the time to read every last word on the page, so you're free to provide evidence. However, from what I can see, Anupam's last proposal was supported by the majority - not to count (and I don't mean to imply that I decide where consensus lies by looking at pure numbers), but from looking at pure supports versus opposes, eight people (nine including Anupam) support while four oppose. How does that make Anupam's views a minority? m.o.p 22:37, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- It depends on what view you are talking about. The current RFC on the introduction is something that most people don't even want to engage because most people think this very entry should be split up and integrated into other entries. I reluctantly engaged the RfC just now myself. The last time the more serious question about the entry was asked, several of the new commentators were not around, and there was "no consensus" found because the opposing side was chalk full of SPAs and editors with a view that is outright hostile to atheism (which is a legitimate view to hold, but it is a minority view). Let me find you some diffs.Griswaldo (talk) 22:43, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- User:Griswaldo, that is exactly the issue: you do not want to collaborate with other users on the talk page, which is why you were reluctant to participate in the current RfC. Moreover, there were several SPA's on the side of the opposition as well, including WP:NPOV. In addition, the split was again recently discussed and the specific case to do so was refuted by several editors. As such, there was no consensus for it. I hope this helps. With regards, AnupamTalk 22:52, 20 September 2011 (UTC)]
- No. You are trying to write an article that violates WP:SYNTH because it conflates New Atheism with oppressive communist regimes and their histories of violence. That's hardly NPOV. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:59, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
Hi m.o.p., as someone who occasionally looks at that page (and then washes my hands), I just want to compliment you as having done the right thing in full protecting. By way of unsolicited advice to the involved editors, the best thing they could do is to allow The Wrong Version to sit there a good long time, and devote their energy to other things. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:54, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
]
Yes, please reconsider your full protection of
WP:RS—deserve protection against misinformed reverts. Thanks Geremia (talk) 16:12, 22 September 2011 (UTC)]
Diffs of
- I'm not really sure where the ownership is here; nowhere in our policies is it stated that a user can't promote their RFC on the subject talk page. If it's ongoing and they'd like to move it to the forefront, what's wrong with that? More so, some of your summaries seem inaccurate - in that last diff, you state that Anupam is removing images, yet I only see Anupam adding an image (the peace dove that's at the top of the page). Also, you use repeating examples. m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Well clearly the last diff was wrong. Thanks for the vote of confidence. There are no repeat examples nor inaccurate summaries, just a mistaken copy paste of the second to last diff to the last position as well. I have fixed it. Cheers.
- Using "consensus claims from one RfC to reject changes made to article content
- Same as above. Using the "consensus" bludgeon to get his way. Please note that clearly we ought to edit by consensus, but this consensus is highly disputed, and IMO not there in the first place. The real problem is the way in which Anupam decides to use it like a trump card to remove changes he doesn't like. Ask yourself if all changes post "consensus" have been removed or just the ones Anupam decided he wanted removed.
Master of Puppets do you need more diffs or is this enough?Griswaldo (talk) 23:31, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Well I need more diffs because your "evidence" so far looks like a desperate attempt to incriminate an editor who has been very successful in persuading his colleagues to adopt his proposals. Anupam has presented his proposals, argued the merits and persuaded many editors. Anything you want to tell us about why you're having difficulty doing likewise? – Lionel (talk) 06:02, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- I don't see this is as conclusive evidence, either. And, it should be said - if people are editing against established consensus, then people are free to re-evaluate consensus, but edit-warring against it doesn't make much sense. m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- If not ownership then what is this - [28], [29], [30]? He removes two RfCs started by another editor, and revolving around the question that many of us actually find to be the fundamental question to answer regarding the entry. Then he edit wars to keep these RfCs off the page, claiming again to have some sort of authority stemming from your prior actions. If you aren't willing to do something here I'm going to another administrator and I'm going to ask for your initial "consensus," your strong arm administrating, and your lack of action here to be reviewed as well. Thanks.Griswaldo (talk) 17:08, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Anupam has already apologized for reverting those RfC additions, and we've moved past it. He also didn't claim to have administrative authority, but was waiting for my approval. We've cleared this up, it's not an issue. So no, I'm not going to take any action (as I've said here and on ANI). Now, if you'd like to threaten me and tell me that, since I'm not cooperating with your wills, you'll go to another administrator, that's fine - as I've said, you can seek outside opinions - but remember to keep a cool head, because borderline threats are not appreciated. m.o.p 21:49, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- It was not a threat, "borderline" or otherwise. You are conveniently ignoring a growing number of voices who are all saying the same thing - there is an ownership problem here. The deletion issue has not been "cleared up" as far as I'm concerned. Whenever it is mentioned Anupam insists that he did not "unilaterally" delete the RfCs from the page, which is a blatant distortion, since that is exactly what he did. He continues to act as a policeman at the page, and yes he does continue to cite your authority. Did you bother to read the many diffs I posted above in the second two sections? I will quote three random examples from those I provided for you if you want.
- When he first deleted the two RfCs he wrote: "rv - see discussion with reviewing administrator; approval needed to start another RfC while one is already occurring."
- When he deleted a fact tag that JimWae put into the lede: "rv excessive tagging per talk; tag is already extant in header; do not subvert previous consensus but gain consensus for potential additions per administrative notice"
- When he rejected another recent change to the entry: "accepted edits by User:Jkhwiki; rv removal of longstanding referenced content - see discussion on talk page and gain consensus for action per administrative injunction"
- In talk page comments and in edit summaries he consistently does the same thing. He refers to your authority, either directly or indirectly through your "notice" or your "injunction" as he likes to call it. I never said the claimed to have administrative authority, I said that he's using your authority, by way of your comments, such as the closure of the AfD to bully people. Do you deny that he citing your comments, because if you do then I must have fabricated those quotes. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:32, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
If you say "If you don't do A, then I'm going to go and do B", that's a threat. Anyway, that's not the issue - we've already covered all the issues with the RfC reverting, and Anupam won't do it again. Why keep raising hell over it?
We've already covered everything you bring up. And no, I'm not denying anything. I'm just saying this, and it's very simple: I don't think there has been any blatant ownership here. That's my judgment. If you disagree, again, feel free to raise this with another administrator or on ANI. m.o.p 23:12, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Regarding the new RFC, I still think there has not passed yet too much time since the last discussion about splitting the article. As far as I knew, repeating these sorts of debates (like splitting, deleting, renaming) before a larger amount of time has passed (like 6 months) is usually discouraged. And as others have also argued earlier, even if having multiple RFCs is possible, it's not very useful, and the new RFC seems to discourage further discussion about improving the lead introduction. So preventing multiple RFCs (and also a RFC about an issue debated not too long ago) does not look to me like evidence of bad faith intentions. Cody7777777 (talk) 21:37, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Cody, would you mind linking me to the previous RfC on splitting? m.o.p 21:49, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- The previous attempt to split the article can be found here. Cody7777777 (talk) 21:55, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Response
Yes, it does. Thanks, m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Dear User:Master of Puppets, I just noticed that User:Binksternet started another RfC while a current one is occurring. Is this appropriate? I reverted the addition motioning for one until your response is confirmed. If it is acceptable, then I apologize and will revert my edit. I look forward to your response. With regards, AnupamTalk 15:14, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'll form my reply on ANI. m.o.p 17:12, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- When you do please take into account my comment just above, regarding Anupam's edit warring to remove talk page comments (namely these RfCs) posted by others on the talk page. If you still don't think this is WP:OWN then clearly other administrators are needed here.Griswaldo (talk) 17:15, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Dear User:Griswaldo, how is going to a neutral mediator to address the issue owning the article? I acknowledge that the article is in dispute and as a result, I am asking an administrator for advice in this matter, NOT handling things on my own, as you have done by edit warring. Your WP:OWN allegations have not only been dismissed by this administrator, but by several other users, including, User:Lionelt, User:Cody7777777 and User:NYyankees51. Thanks, AnupamTalk 17:27, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- In reply to Griswaldo: reverting the RfCs was a mistake, but we've cleared that up now. As Anupam has stated at ANI, the intent was not to discourage discussion. If you think my judgment is compromised, you're welcome to seek another administrator's input. m.o.p 21:04, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- And as further evidence of WP:OWN, see this. Anupam adds a comment to everything that anyone else says, as if he/she is the owner of the article and everyone else is a subordinate contributor. This particular instance is pretty benign (although it clutters up the talk page with an unnecessary comment that merely says "I agree"), but I do think that Anupam at least needs to learn how to avoid giving the appearance of thinking he/she owns the article, and to desist from chipping in and saying the same thing over and over again, which almost makes meaningful discussion impossible! SNALWIBMA ( talk - contribs ) 17:31, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- While the input is appreciated, as I've said before, making allegations of ownership without hard evidence isn't going to get us anywhere. Anupam is not stopping others from discussing changes or forming consensus, and that's all that matters - refactoring the talk page or commenting on an issue is not against policy, and I'm not going to tell someone to stop editing because it "looks" like they're doing something wrong. As said above, you're welcome to request another administrator's insight if you wish. m.o.p 21:04, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
COIHi
you've helped me out before, with a conflict of interest problem, so having much more experience than me on wikipedia, I thought I would be bold enough to ask again for help.
Similar problem to last, User_talk:Hobbycraft is editing the HOBBYCRAFT article and making changes that aren't citably right. I think the user name suggest and history suggests a conflict of interest case.
Can you please, speak to them addressing this issue.
Thank you very much for your help.
Markcoulter50 (talk) 22:27, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
- I've blocked that user for username violations. Thanks a lot for letting me know! Keep up the great work, m.o.p 23:00, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkbackcausa sui (talk) 18:47, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Hello. You have a new message at causa sui's talk page. causa sui (talk) 20:54, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Problematic editing on militant atheism
- I hope it's not considered defamatory to repeat the final line: "I merely present the diffs above, and let others draw their own conclusions. Is this a duck? Does it quack? You decide.". Unfortunately, the concerned community no longer has that opportunity. What did you decide on their behalf? Does this duck quack, or not? bobrayner (talk) 15:42, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- It's not your wording, it's the very idea of it. Going to what's allegorically a public place and shouting, "Hey, everybody, this man is a criminal!" is one step below blatantly forming a lynch mob. As I've said, I have no problem with your wording or evidence, just your location of choice. Wikipedia is not, unfortunately, a democracy - letting others draw their conclusions and voice their opinions is not how a sockpuppet investigation works.
- So yes, please don't go restoring any of that section. We're not discussing editors, we're discussing the content they produce. Anything else has a sub-board to deal with it (like WP:SPI).
- Hopefully that clears things up! I'll be happy to answer any more questions should you have them. Cheers, m.o.p 15:48, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Hello User:Bobrayner, I noticed the section you created on the militant atheism talk page. If you do feel the way you do about User:Turnsalso and the anonymous IP Addresses, you can take this up with WP:SPI. Thanks, AnupamTalk 15:52, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
Are you kidding my MoP? Above your write: Going to what's allegorically a public place and shouting, "Hey, everybody, this man is a criminal!" is one step below blatantly forming a lynch mob. AND We're not discussing editors, we're discussing the content they produce. Yet you call this edit by Lionelt "good faith," at WQA? MoP, I would not ask you to agree with me or to like me, but can I please ask you not to insult me with these double standards.Griswaldo (talk) 16:18, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
]
- Griswaldo, I mean no offense when I say this, but I'd appreciate it if you stayed out of discussions which didn't involve you. Also, please don't put words in my mouth. Thanks, m.o.p 16:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I have not put words in your mouth. You said that you would assume good faith about Lionel. If you "assume good faith" it means you assume his edits were in "good faith." If you did not intend that meaning I suggest you reconsider what you wrote. Also, if you want me to "stay out of discussion which don't involve me" then I suggest your first order of business should be to do the same thing yourself. You decided to post at WQA, when there was no mention of you or anything you've done in that thread. Once again, I expect people not to practice double standards. So as long as you cannot show me that you will treat me as you ask to be treated yourself, I will not oblige you. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:21, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Please stop bickering. I'm not quite sure what you're trying to accomplish here. I've already explained what I meant when I said assuming good faith, but I'll explain again: I assumed that Lionelt was not hounding or deliberately haranguing you. I did not say, at any point, that his edit content was good faith, and I've told him not to edit like that again. So please stop accusing me of saying things I haven't said.
- Also, I posted in WQA because, as a mediator in this case and as an administrator, it's my duty to weigh in on administrative noticeboards, especially when the case is an ongoing discussion I've been participating in for three months. It is not your duty to weigh in on discussions on my talk page that don't concern you. I hope the distinction is clear here. m.o.p 20:33, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I think you are confused about something. Content is never good faith. "Editing in good faith" and "good faith edits" refers to the intent of the editor always. It has nothing to do with content. My assumption that you also felt the edits were appropriate comes from the fact that you did not say they weren't appropriate and clearly feel that his intentions were good. If you'd like to set the record straight on that issue you still can. I've asked you twice now to discuss the actual edits that are the focal point of the thread. Also, I moved the thread to ANI, per the suggestion of the editor who marked it "resolved."Griswaldo (talk) 20:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- See Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#User:Lionelt_--_following_my_past_edits_to_drum_up_support_against_me. FYI, I copy pasted the entire discussion because both you and Collect were critical of my initial post and I thought it was the right thing to do to preserve that criticism in the record of the conversation. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:43, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- In reply to your first paragraph: I'm going to give up now, as it seems you're misunderstanding most of what I type, but you're the one who stated that the content was not good faith (as you said, not appropriate), and I agreed - I referred to his intent in replying to you, and said that I assumed good faith in his motives, not his replies. I can't really say that in a clearer way, so my apologies if it's hard to understand. Also, as I've already said, I've left a message for Lionelt about his edits, so clearly I do not feel they're appropriate. m.o.p 20:57, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I, too, find these double standards vexing.
- Which diff is defamatory?
- I had hitherto thought that people on the article talkpage might like to be aware of potential problems with votestacking on the article talkpage (and 3rr evasion, of course). Would it be permitted to add a link to that list of diffs when it's in a different place, or would you consider that defamatory too? bobrayner (talk) 16:23, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- As I said, the information is not defamatory, but the way it's presented is - we have specific processes available to pursue should one feel there are sockpuppets about. However, calling someone out with the intent of informing the community is overstepping your authority and damaging to the accused's character. Also, there's no way a community discussion about whether or not one editor is a sockpuppet can end in anything other than a sockpuppet investigation anyway.
- So, in closing, please don't bring issues like this to the talk page. If you're concerned about votestacking, take it to the appropriate venue - if your concerns are validated, we'll take measures against said puppets. Cheers, m.o.p 16:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I am very disappointed that it's no longer permissible to raise problems with article-editing on the article talkpage. Previous concerns about sockpuppetry were simply ignored; the difference this time is that it's backed by lots of diffs.
- I'm fairly confident that the people concerned have sufficient technical nous to make checkuser draw a blank. And, let's be entirely honest, within minutes of me creating an SPI, an admin of the right persuasion will be getting an email suggesting that an SPI needs their attention. And SPI does not see offsite coordination by a facebook group &c. Finally, any null result at SPI will be used at the article in much the same way as previous administrative decisions have been. So, I do not believe that an SPI will improve either the article, or the encyclopædia as a whole. bobrayner (talk) 17:08, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- If you don't think the pre-existing methods set in place for situations like this are sufficient, you can always raise that concern at the village pump or suggest a policy revision - however, SPI is the venue for these requests, and the only venue. The talk page can not substitute. m.o.p 17:10, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
76.228.226.122Thank you for blocking the anonymous user, who is being counterproductive and rude. (although I think the block should have been one week, but I guess ok at least)
Can you also please try to hide the edit summaries of these edits if possible?
This and
this
Thanks and regards, talk 05:04, 26 September 2011 (UTC)]
- I'll extend the block if this behaviour continues after the block period is over.
- As for the edit summaries, those don't warrant hiding - I apologize for their content, but they don't meet the criteria of what I should remove. It's best just to ignore them for now. Cheers, m.o.p 05:13, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
- Okay, good to know, if I did nothing wrong, no permanent block will be enforced. The IP does not volunteer on WP as an admin and so the disproportionately out of line comments and threats of his should be ignored. --talk 05:19, 26 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Sounds good. We only hide extremely offensive revisions; milder ones stay in the edit history. Thanks again for bringing this to our attention! Cheers, m.o.p 05:31, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
Email
Jasper Deng (talk) 05:29, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
- Reading. talk) 06:00, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Bad Girls Club
- I've blocked Junebea for 2 days for disregarding warnings. m.o.p 20:30, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks for helping :) Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 21:06, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkback
- And again.Griswaldo (talk) 04:24, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
- And again ... but maybe the last. You can settle this question once and for all. See the talk page.Griswaldo (talk) 06:09, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'm sure I'm not alone in wanting to hear your replies to the last responses posed to you at that page. IMO, I don't know why you went down the road you did, but as far as I can tell you're blatantly misrepesenting facts about your own actions when people are brining concerns to you. You might think that since you closed the RfC the matter is settled, but it is not. You're actions have not made my life any more pleasant in the last few days vis-a-vis trying to deal with Anupam's disruption and I think you owe us all answers. So please revisit this thread and deal with the open questions. Thanks.Griswaldo (talk) 02:19, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
- I invite you to stop asking the same question again and again. This would be appreciated. Thanks, m.o.p 02:33, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Block question
- No, I just block obviously bad-faith accounts on sight. Advertising/spam accounts fall under that category. m.o.p 00:37, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Thanks
- Thank you. I've unlocked the article for whatever may come. If I'm needed again, feel free to let me know. Thanks for the kind words again, m.o.p 05:12, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
reminder
- We're still waiting to see if the user understands COI policy (per Ed's question). I'll prod the user and see if they'll answer. talk) 19:20, 30 September 2011 (UTC)]
Nextel logo deleted
- Mmm, good point. What's the link to the logo in question? m.o.p 01:33, 2 October 2011 (UTC)
Support of Sage City SymphonyYou deleted this page before I had a chance to go back in and add the stuff that you wanted to see, including the links within Wikipedia to important composers such as Lou Callabro (who started this orchestra and cites it in his Wikipedia page) and Susan Hurley whose work we premiered (SC is also mentioned in her Wikipedia entry). (Let alone links about the works we have performed.) And we have a web site at www.sagecitysymphony.org, have existed for over 35 yrs and are a significant cultural resource in the Bennington area such that we receive grants from local, statewide and national foundations.
I broke my wrist last weekend and am doing one-handed pecking so it'll take me a few days to get that loaded in. We are going out for a bit now, but I would appreciate your undeleting the page so that I don't have to re-invent the starting part when I go back in tomorrow to add links. Or delete it entirely so that I can start fresh - at this point either would work as long as I can start some serious work on it tomorrow. I am the webmaster by the way, so I do have access to content and more links.
Thank you, Celia Murray — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.228.127.119 (talk) 14:22, 1 October 2011 (UTC)
- It looks like fixed everything up. Best of luck, m.o.p 01:35, 2 October 2011 (UTC)]
Reply on Deterence's talk page
MA
After the beating you took you deserve a cold one--on me! Thanks for being fair and balanced – Lionel (talk) 03:55, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
- Hey, thanks! Glad to help out. :) m.o.p 03:56, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
Deletion of Mau5trap Recordings
--neocharles (talk) 07:33, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Existence does not equal notability - the subject has to be notable to get a Wikipedia page. m.o.p 12:05, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
Questoin re: AIV
- Addendum, actually, I read it very clearly in WP:VANDNOT: "Uploading or using material on Wikipedia in violation of Wikipedia's copyright policies is prohibited, but is not vandalism unless the user does so maliciously or fails to heed warnings." So if a person fails to heed warnings it is vandalism. My mistake here was that I only warned once. --Muhandes (talk) 12:29, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Eh, technically it is vandalism, but the user seems to be trying to improve the Wikipedia - that desire to help is misplaced in this case, as they seem to think that using copyrighted content is actually better. Weird. For most cases, yes, you should report copyvio to AIV - as long as they've been warned sufficiently. m.o.p 12:42, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- OK, he now did it again and the time stamp is after your last warning. Is it vandalism now? --Muhandes (talk) 12:32, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Yeah, if they're outright ignoring warnings. I've blocked for three days. m.o.p 12:40, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
Classmusic
- Oh, I know. But if somebody's lied to my face about using another account - and to other editors working on the article - I'm not about to let them go without a repercussion or two. I'd like Almost-instinct and Voceditnore to look over the article and fix up anything shifty. Also, I'd like Classmusic to respond to my warning, instead of blanking it and ignoring like they have to the above-named editors.
- So, in short, I know that COI doesn't bar editing, but it's enough of a concern that, given the user's recent behaviour, I'll stop them from doing anything until we've figured things out. This isn't too rouge-y, is it? I didn't hear that. Perhaps he is unaware of the sockpuppet investigation findings. Anyhow it seems that DeltaQuad has also blocked the Classmusic account. I left a note on his page about using the unblock template, but re-iterated that he needs to read the COI and Autobiography guidelines and stick to them scrupulously, if he gets unblocked. In the Opera and Classical Music WikiProjects, we get a lot of articles for performers, ensembles, etc. created by their agents and PR people, and often themselves. In my experience, the best I can hope for after one of these tussles is that they'll edit their article according to the guidelines in future. I have yet to find a single one who has ever contributed anything else to Wikipedia. Their only interest in the project is as a PR tool. Having said that, at least it results (after much red-pencilling from other editors) in one new article on a notable subject that we didn't have before and in a small way redresses the pop culture systemic bias here. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 13:40, 5 October 2011 (UTC)]
Danish election
- Never mind, it's been pulled by another admin. All the best, Jenks24 (talk) 11:03, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry about that! I was busy all day and didn't get your message until now. Thanks for letting me know, though! Cheers, m.o.p 19:51, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
3RRHey there! :)
Well WP:CRYSTAL has wined down, however, there's currently a
The Bad Girls Club (season 7). I have notified the two users [32], [33]. The evidence can be found here. They are having an edit-conflict on how the "Duration of cast" should be presented. Since there's no rules regarding anything like that, and it was made up about a year ago, I couldn't warned them to stop their e/c with anything except the 3RR rule. Maybe they need an admin to tell them to stop, so that's why I came to you :) Thanks, Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 01:17, 6 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Temporary page protection requested. Calabe1992 (talk) 01:29, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
Natami
AFD
- Your input is appreciated, though there's nothing I can do with it but take a note. If you'd like, you can weigh in at the next AfD(s), when/if they arise. Cheers, m.o.p 19:42, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
Dr Myko San – Health from Mushrooms
- I'd be happy to help! However, I'm currently away from a computer (typing this on my phone), so I'll have to check in on the 11th of July. Does that sound okay? m.o.p 15:40, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
- wp:NODEADLINE :-) LeadSongDog come howl! 15:48, 7 July 2011 (UTC)]
From a former Wikipedian
-71.234.90.0 (talk) 04:50, 8 July 2011 (UTC)
- Hey, thanks so much! I'm not sure who you are, but I really appreciate the sentiment. Hope all is well! m.o.p 20:49, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
Deletion review for Thomas James Ball
DRV comment
DRV
Could you please overturn the deletion of these files per File:Signature of Amitabh Bachchan.svg and File:Signature of Zakir Hussain.svg:
- File:Signature of Vishwanathan Anand.svg
- File:Signature of Vijay Mallya.svg
- File:Signature of Venkaiah Naidu.svg
- File:Signature of Sudeep Bandhopadhyay.svg
- File:Signature of Sonia Gandhi.svg
- File:Signature of Somnath Chatterjee.svg
- File:Signature of Ratan Tata.svg
- File:Signature of Kumar Mangalam Birla.svg
- File:Signature of Rajeev Shukla.svg
- File:Signature of Raj Babbar.svg
- File:Signature of Rahul Gandhi.svg
- File:Signature of Priyanka Vadra.svg
- File:Signature of P. T. Usha.svg
- File:Signature of Narendra Modi.svg
- File:Signature of Nandan Nilekani.svg
- File:Signature of Manish Tewari.svg
- File:Signature of Leander Paes.svg
- File:Signature of Lata Mangeshkar.svg
- File:Signature of Kumar Mangalam Birla.svg
- File:Signature of Karia Munda.svg
- File:Signature of Kapil Sibal.svg
- File:Signature of Kamal Nath.svg
- File:Signature of K. Kamraj.svg
- File:Signature of Jaya Bachchan.svg
- File:Signature of Gautam Gambhir.svg
- File:Signature of Brinda Karat.svg
- File:Signature of Bharatsinh Solanki.svg
- File:Signature of Bhairon Singh Shekhawat.svg
- File:Signature of B. K. Birla.svg
- File:Signature of Azim Premji.svg
- File:Signature of Arun Jaitely.svg
- File:Signature of Aishwarya Rai Bachchan.svg
- File:Signature of Abhishek Manu Singhvi.svg
- File:Signature of Abhishek Bachchan.svg
- File:Signature of Sting.svg
- File:Signature of Br. L. D. Lobo.svg
- File:Signature of VJ Rannvijay Singh Singha.svg
Diligent07Appears to be less than new. See User talk:Raoulduke25 where he states that this is a deliberate series of edits.
- Can you please help defend our collective effort of including the obscene middle-finger incident in the Cheney Mason article? It should be maintained in the article for public interest, etc. Please see the Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard#Cheney Mason discussion page and include your thoughts in favor of having the content remain in the interests of the public, etc
[8], [9] and even imputation that an editor has a connection with the person [10]. He has been on since April, and started off as being experienced on WP IMHO. Kindly keep an eye out please. Especially for any sign of a real "collective effort"? Such as [11]? Cheers. Collect (talk) 11:36, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
A cookie for you!
Keep up the good work defending the "Wiki" against genre warriors. Thanks for the help! talk) 17:31, 13 July 2011 (UTC)]
Hello. You have a new message at Lionelt's talk page.
Semi protection
OK, this thing with the militant atheism page is impossibleThese guys are incredible... I could dig up diffs to show you how they revert and wikilawyer even the SMALLEST attempt to move the article closer to NPOV. But that would take a long time for you to read. How about I show you this instead:
These guys are utterly without scruples. Who in their right mind would remove the NPOV dispute tag when heated arguments have been raging for weeks and NO moves whatsoever have been made to fix the article? Oh right, that would be someone in their right mind who is running a propaganda platform.
Anyway... I wanted to ask your advice on what to do. These guys are impossible to work with. Most of the other editors have given up and refuse to put this page on their watchlist. So what to do then? Request formal mediation? Articles for deletion? Something else?
Me and the other editors would like to see the page replaced with a disambiguation page... since literally ALL the content has already been covered (better) in Criticism of atheism, State atheism and New Atheism.
Obhave (talk) 13:21, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
- Hello User:Master of Puppets. I noticed this conversation and thought I might add that an NPOV policy. Obhave (talk) 13:11, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
- One more thing, m.o.p... my opponents are currently twisting your words to make it look as if you were scolding user:Mann_jess all along. Obhave (talk) 14:42, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
]
User:Jasper Deng page protection
- No worries! m.o.p 19:35, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
Is there a procedure for brutal uncollaborated editing with a destructive intent?I noticed that you recently had problems with proposed brutal editing by Peter S Strempel. Although he has been more sensible on your project in the end (possibly because of your administrator status?) he has not been so with regard to the astrology project pages to which he made a similar 'razor-promise'. Could you please see this Afd request which is one of three he made for major 'history of astrology' articles within the last hour, with a promise on another important page that any comment which is not refrences within 7 days will be removed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Babylonian_astrology
Is there anything that can be done about this officially to stop him wreaking havoc with content whilst he knows that the small group of editors providing content on these pages are already stretched to the limit trying to keep up with what needs to be done? I don't understand what drives some people to want to edit WP like this, but I think it is entriely the result of his ego-stress that when he proposed an edit for a passage, no one favoured it. Hope you can help or advise Zac Δ talk 01:15, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks! assume good faith; I believe that Peter is simply trying to help improve Wikipedia. While his methods may be lacking in some areas, he has displayed a pretty decent grasp on the policies he's trying to enforce.
- However, I agree that he shouldn't be making any changes if they're not discussed with the community first. Do you mind pulling up a few diffs of where he went against consensus? I'll approach him with your concern then. Thanks, m.o.p 03:57, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
- Actually there hasn't been any significant content dispute with Peter. He proposed a change to a section edit which wasn't a very good proposition and a few editors commented but without rancur, and I added a new section post immediately afterwards to point out the proiposed change would contradict with how the definition was given correctly at a later point in the article, outlining how I understood WP policy expected the main astrology article to pull its own content together, along with its summarised content from its daughter pages. Peter never responded to this but other editors started working in that direction immediately. Then, without further discussion or comment, Peter came back four days later to announce an intention to take his 'word razor' to all unreferenced assertions on the main astrology page, its sub-pages, and the portal page itself, to ensure his perceived disagreement was not circumvented in pages he viewed as content forks (I'm still not sure what he means by that). My response to that can be seen - a perfectly reasonable request for him to do what he felt was most productive, but consider that citation-tagging was the way to go. I also placed comments on his talk-page, which you can read if you are interested. That he erupted into a frenzy of AfD requests last night says something, I think, about his unwillingness to discuss and engage in other views. Most of his posts appear as new section declarations that don't appear to have considered the responses other editors give him.
- I've summarised this in the ANI request Dougweller started. The deletion requests were a step too far IMO, and I'm concerned that Peter would spring to such drastic measures in reaction to what he perceives to be me not allowing him to do what he wants to do. I'll be away for a few days so I'm tying up my WP activity now. That underlines my concern that he intends to take such drastic action with only one week's notice of intent. Thanks for looking into this. It would be good if something could be proposed to stop huge problems before they occur. 10:35, 22 July 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zachariel (talk • contribs
)
- One last request. I have just noticed that a related complaint, which is quite serious but has been sidetracked (deliberatly IMO) by Peter's suggestions that I have prevented him from doing what he wants, has been collapsed as "going nowehere" by an unsympathetic editor.
- "Its ben here several days and no admin has even sniffed at a block or ban - clearly you're not going to get admin action. So this should got to WP:DR or WP:RFCU if you want to take it further. I've boldly collapsed this, though I won't be surprised if someone uncollapses it"
- If you can find the time could you at least take a look at that related problem, and consider uncollapsing it, because the issues are serious and have gone beyond the point where Dispute resolution are appropriate. I will be away and have nothing more to add, but the problems identified still remain. Zac Δ talk 10:58, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
What to do?
- I've started a threat at ANI. Those AfDs are purely pointy and if no one objects I'll close them. talk) 06:11, 22 July 2011 (UTC)]
- Replied there. m.o.p 08:20, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
Talk Page on Militant Atheism - Introduction Section
- The update is appreciated, thanks very much. I've been dealing with life for the past two weeks, but I'll be back to close that discussion tonight or tomorrow. Thanks again, m.o.p 22:03, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
- Just bringing this up again, given the current state of this section. I believe the discussion will be archived automatically if not closed. I'm sorry if I sound pushy with you having a lot on your plate of late. If you would prefer, I could alert User:Fastily instead. Turnsalso (talk) 16:55, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
ITN
- I knew that tab I closed had unfinished business on it... thanks. 2008 University of Central Arkansas shootings is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.
The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2008 University of Central Arkansas shootings(2nd nomination) until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on good quality evidence, and our policies and guidelines.
Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article.
talk 14:00, 1 September 2011 (UTC)]
Hey
- Done! Both your userpage and the transcluded page are protected. Cheers, « ₣M₣ » 04:09, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Restored. m.o.p 05:21, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
]
User talk:Joshua the Independent
- My mistake - my block script auto-filled the edit summary. The block was issued due to the user's newfound will to disrupt Wikipedia intentionally. Their previous contributions are welcome, but this behaviour necessitates administrative action. m.o.p 21:52, 13 September 2011 (UTC)
Say hi to your imaginary girlfriend for me
- Well, I do love getting hate mail. Thanks for the laugh! Cheers, m.o.p 05:17, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
...further to the above lovely note, I weighed in on Calabe's talk page - there appears to be more confusion here than at first glance. bou·le·var·dier (talk) 05:19, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
Sorry to drop by again, but Silentsizzlingsausage (talk · contribs) would appear to be a duck. bou·le·var·dier (talk) 05:31, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
- No, it's not an issue! Thanks for the note, blocked. Cheers, WP:SPI. Thanks again, m.o.p 06:13, 14 September 2011 (UTC)]
I have to admit ...
- See the above section. The link is apparently a very subtle spam link that Calabe is removing, and socks are springing up to revert him. Swarm u / t 10:20, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
Moderation
- Alright, I'll make my way back. Thanks for letting me know! m.o.p 05:18, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
User:12.139.96.228
- To be honest, this case is perplexing. Half of this user's edits are constructive (mostly sourced), the other half aren't sourced - and the user won't reply to anybody. I'm also too busy to go through every edit and confirm whether or not it's good. I forgot about this for a while - I'll think about it tonight and figure something out for tomorrow. Thanks for reminding me! m.o.p 05:18, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
Whoops
- Whoops! Must not have been looking when I ran my block script. Thanks for letting me know, I've reblocked them for a far shorter (technically, an infinitely shorter) time. Cheers, m.o.p 22:58, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
Ashleyleggat404
- You're fully right in that the blanking policy covers indefinite blocks. I've removed the user's talk page rights as a result. Thanks again! m.o.p 00:28, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkback
Moderation
- If you look into this please consider whether Anupam's actions on the talk page and the entry itself are violations of WP:OWN. He's been driving off those he disagrees with by bludgening them to death with argument and heavily policing the entry claiming that there is a consensus written in stone despite many dissenting voices. Others have taken to simply calling him "the article's owner." I have had enough of this behavior personally and left him a message about it on his talk page. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:52, 20 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Dear User:Master of Puppets, the above user has misrepresented the occurrences at the article. I started another Introduction discussion at the article's talk page but User:Griswaldo has chosen to edit war over a second NPOV tag, despite the fact that one already exists in the article. He has done so despite the fact that the Introduction is being discussed in a peaceful manner at the talk page, in violation of your injunction: "We've only got consensus on this proposed versions (and loose consensus at that) - please do not attempt to subvert said consensus by making undiscussed changes." I have posted a message on his talk page about this behaviour. Nevertheless, I also do not wish to argue with the user personally and would prefer if you could go back to moderating the discussion between the two parties at the talk page. Thanks for taking the time to read this message. With regards, AnupamTalk 20:58, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- His "injunction?" Adding a neutrality tag to a specific sentence which an editor disputes the neutrality of is hardly "subverting the consensus by making undiscussed changes." Please stop wikilawyering to get your way. There is a growing consensus against your position regarding this article in general as well, despite your aggressive policing of the entry and the talk page. See ]
- I just thought that I would mention that User:Griswaldo, after seeing this message, just now decided to comment in the discussion rather than edit war against consensus further. Thanks for taking the time to read this message. With regards, AnupamTalk 21:51, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- "Edit war against consensus further?" My comment there has nothing to do with your message here. I've made three total edits to this entry ever. One was a copy edit in June, another was reverting an IP vandal, and the third was the revert of your Ownership edit. Please do not insinuate that I'm a edit warrior on this page. It is disingenuous.Griswaldo (talk) 22:08, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Thank you all for approaching me with your concerns.
- Obviously, I do not support Anupam - this is because I'm remaining a neutral third party, and, therefore, can't take sides. However, Griswaldo: please keep in mind that I did ask for all discussion to take place on the talk page. Why not just add your complaints to the talk page? It would have been much easier to discuss.
- I do agree that adding a NPOV tag, while slightly redundant, isn't horrible, but your intent seems to have been to stir discussion on that particular section, discussion that would be much more appropriate on the talk page.
- As for your and Snalwibma's concerns of Anupam trying to 'own' the article, I'm curious as to what you two mean; what 'delusions'?
- Also, Griswaldo, I don't think Anupam meant to insinuate you are an edit warrior (though this is just my take) - rather, they wanted to add the note that you've weighed in on discussion. m.o.p 22:10, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- your intent seems to have been to stir discussion on that particular section - No that's incorrect. I didn't add this tag, I simply reverted Anupam's attempt to own the page when he removed it. I agreed with JimWae's addition of the tag and found Anupam's removal to be unwarranted and a display of ownership.Griswaldo (talk) 22:16, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Note that, for all intents and purposes, reverting somebody is adding whatever is included in your edit, regardless of who put it there first. You revert a removal, you're agreeing with the edition you're reverting to - simple.
- And, if you agreed with JimWae, then we go back to what I was saying earlier - say so on the talk page. Two of you agree? Great! That's closer to consensus. But it means nothing if you express your support by reverting removals.
- Again, as I've asked multiple times, please stop saying that Anupam is owning anything without giving me evidence of it first. m.o.p 22:22, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Dear User:Master of Puppets, thank you for your reply to all of us. The reason User:Snalwibma stated that I was attempting to "own" the article was because I reverted an undiscussed removal from the article, which not only myself, but two other users objected to. In fact, two anonymous IP Addresses also reverted User:Snalwibma. I was open to compromise on the issue and stated that I would accept User:Turnsalso's compromise on the issue. I kindly request you to look at that discussion yourself and get an honest reading of it. Also, the only reason I removed the second NPOV tag was because there was already one present, which I did not remove. I only reverted the addition of a second NPOV tag once and even explained myself on the talk page. When I went to the talk page, I found rude accusations and an anti-collaborative spirit, despite the fact that I have been nothing but polite. I hope this helps. With regards, AnupamTalk 22:25, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry - I know I should not rise to the bait, but I have to object to the comment "The reason User:Snalwibma stated that I was attempting to 'own' the article was because I reverted an undiscussed removal ..." How dare Anupam presume to know what is in my mind! The reason I describe Anupam's attitude to the article as one of ownership is because that is how s/he behaves - "policing" every edit, pronouncing on whether s/he "accepts" or "rejects" it, peremptorily reverting anything s/he does not like, without discussion, presuming to know others' motives, and judging them as fit/unfit to contribute to the article. This has been going on for weeks, if not months. It is impossible to discuss the content of the article, let alone improve the text, because everything is filtered through the approval/disapproval of the article's self-appointed guardian, Anupam. tendentious or disruptive when they bring up certain issues, even when they are clearly in the majority. That is not collaborative. I stopped editing the article heavily because of those issues. I don't have any delusions that my opinion is worth more than anyone else's here, but I would think that the large number of established, experienced editors who are all saying there's a problem, would indicate something. — Jess· Δ♥ 19:45, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
Please reconsider your full protection of Militant atheist
- In case you didn't notice, I asked that people think twice about pointing fingers at each other. If you'd like to start a sockpuppetry investigation, let me know, and we can take that avenue - however, don't accuse other editors of ownership without substance. If you think Anupam is trying to own things, give me something. Diffs, edits, anything. I'll check it out for you, but right now, baseless accusations are not what I'm looking for.
- Also, notice that I protected the article with your edit being the last one. How is that validating the very person you've been reverting?
- The protection will stay until consensus is reached. m.o.p 22:19, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Because protection is what he wants quite clearly. He's stalling conversation and shouting down people on the talk page, where, if you have a look, you'll see he's clearly in the minority. Because of your "injunction" as he calls it, he also claims that no matter how many people agree with a certain change it is illegitimate. I'll be happy to gather some diffs, but my first message to you above was to please look into the situation carefully before acting on it. Did you do that and come to the conclusion that I'm wrong or did you not head that request? Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:29, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Yes, I did heed your request. I don't see any ownership behaviour from Anupam, though, being involved in multiple disputes, I didn't have the time to read every last word on the page, so you're free to provide evidence. However, from what I can see, Anupam's last proposal was supported by the majority - not to count (and I don't mean to imply that I decide where consensus lies by looking at pure numbers), but from looking at pure supports versus opposes, eight people (nine including Anupam) support while four oppose. How does that make Anupam's views a minority? m.o.p 22:37, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- It depends on what view you are talking about. The current RFC on the introduction is something that most people don't even want to engage because most people think this very entry should be split up and integrated into other entries. I reluctantly engaged the RfC just now myself. The last time the more serious question about the entry was asked, several of the new commentators were not around, and there was "no consensus" found because the opposing side was chalk full of SPAs and editors with a view that is outright hostile to atheism (which is a legitimate view to hold, but it is a minority view). Let me find you some diffs.Griswaldo (talk) 22:43, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- User:Griswaldo, that is exactly the issue: you do not want to collaborate with other users on the talk page, which is why you were reluctant to participate in the current RfC. Moreover, there were several SPA's on the side of the opposition as well, including WP:NPOV. In addition, the split was again recently discussed and the specific case to do so was refuted by several editors. As such, there was no consensus for it. I hope this helps. With regards, AnupamTalk 22:52, 20 September 2011 (UTC)]
- No. You are trying to write an article that violates WP:SYNTH because it conflates New Atheism with oppressive communist regimes and their histories of violence. That's hardly NPOV. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:59, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
Hi m.o.p., as someone who occasionally looks at that page (and then washes my hands), I just want to compliment you as having done the right thing in full protecting. By way of unsolicited advice to the involved editors, the best thing they could do is to allow The Wrong Version to sit there a good long time, and devote their energy to other things. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:54, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
]
Yes, please reconsider your full protection of
WP:RS—deserve protection against misinformed reverts. Thanks Geremia (talk) 16:12, 22 September 2011 (UTC)]
Diffs of
- I'm not really sure where the ownership is here; nowhere in our policies is it stated that a user can't promote their RFC on the subject talk page. If it's ongoing and they'd like to move it to the forefront, what's wrong with that? More so, some of your summaries seem inaccurate - in that last diff, you state that Anupam is removing images, yet I only see Anupam adding an image (the peace dove that's at the top of the page). Also, you use repeating examples. m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Well clearly the last diff was wrong. Thanks for the vote of confidence. There are no repeat examples nor inaccurate summaries, just a mistaken copy paste of the second to last diff to the last position as well. I have fixed it. Cheers.
- Using "consensus claims from one RfC to reject changes made to article content
- Same as above. Using the "consensus" bludgeon to get his way. Please note that clearly we ought to edit by consensus, but this consensus is highly disputed, and IMO not there in the first place. The real problem is the way in which Anupam decides to use it like a trump card to remove changes he doesn't like. Ask yourself if all changes post "consensus" have been removed or just the ones Anupam decided he wanted removed.
Master of Puppets do you need more diffs or is this enough?Griswaldo (talk) 23:31, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Well I need more diffs because your "evidence" so far looks like a desperate attempt to incriminate an editor who has been very successful in persuading his colleagues to adopt his proposals. Anupam has presented his proposals, argued the merits and persuaded many editors. Anything you want to tell us about why you're having difficulty doing likewise? – Lionel (talk) 06:02, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- I don't see this is as conclusive evidence, either. And, it should be said - if people are editing against established consensus, then people are free to re-evaluate consensus, but edit-warring against it doesn't make much sense. m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- If not ownership then what is this - [28], [29], [30]? He removes two RfCs started by another editor, and revolving around the question that many of us actually find to be the fundamental question to answer regarding the entry. Then he edit wars to keep these RfCs off the page, claiming again to have some sort of authority stemming from your prior actions. If you aren't willing to do something here I'm going to another administrator and I'm going to ask for your initial "consensus," your strong arm administrating, and your lack of action here to be reviewed as well. Thanks.Griswaldo (talk) 17:08, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Anupam has already apologized for reverting those RfC additions, and we've moved past it. He also didn't claim to have administrative authority, but was waiting for my approval. We've cleared this up, it's not an issue. So no, I'm not going to take any action (as I've said here and on ANI). Now, if you'd like to threaten me and tell me that, since I'm not cooperating with your wills, you'll go to another administrator, that's fine - as I've said, you can seek outside opinions - but remember to keep a cool head, because borderline threats are not appreciated. m.o.p 21:49, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- It was not a threat, "borderline" or otherwise. You are conveniently ignoring a growing number of voices who are all saying the same thing - there is an ownership problem here. The deletion issue has not been "cleared up" as far as I'm concerned. Whenever it is mentioned Anupam insists that he did not "unilaterally" delete the RfCs from the page, which is a blatant distortion, since that is exactly what he did. He continues to act as a policeman at the page, and yes he does continue to cite your authority. Did you bother to read the many diffs I posted above in the second two sections? I will quote three random examples from those I provided for you if you want.
- When he first deleted the two RfCs he wrote: "rv - see discussion with reviewing administrator; approval needed to start another RfC while one is already occurring."
- When he deleted a fact tag that JimWae put into the lede: "rv excessive tagging per talk; tag is already extant in header; do not subvert previous consensus but gain consensus for potential additions per administrative notice"
- When he rejected another recent change to the entry: "accepted edits by User:Jkhwiki; rv removal of longstanding referenced content - see discussion on talk page and gain consensus for action per administrative injunction"
- In talk page comments and in edit summaries he consistently does the same thing. He refers to your authority, either directly or indirectly through your "notice" or your "injunction" as he likes to call it. I never said the claimed to have administrative authority, I said that he's using your authority, by way of your comments, such as the closure of the AfD to bully people. Do you deny that he citing your comments, because if you do then I must have fabricated those quotes. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:32, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
If you say "If you don't do A, then I'm going to go and do B", that's a threat. Anyway, that's not the issue - we've already covered all the issues with the RfC reverting, and Anupam won't do it again. Why keep raising hell over it?
We've already covered everything you bring up. And no, I'm not denying anything. I'm just saying this, and it's very simple: I don't think there has been any blatant ownership here. That's my judgment. If you disagree, again, feel free to raise this with another administrator or on ANI. m.o.p 23:12, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Regarding the new RFC, I still think there has not passed yet too much time since the last discussion about splitting the article. As far as I knew, repeating these sorts of debates (like splitting, deleting, renaming) before a larger amount of time has passed (like 6 months) is usually discouraged. And as others have also argued earlier, even if having multiple RFCs is possible, it's not very useful, and the new RFC seems to discourage further discussion about improving the lead introduction. So preventing multiple RFCs (and also a RFC about an issue debated not too long ago) does not look to me like evidence of bad faith intentions. Cody7777777 (talk) 21:37, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Cody, would you mind linking me to the previous RfC on splitting? m.o.p 21:49, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- The previous attempt to split the article can be found here. Cody7777777 (talk) 21:55, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Response
Yes, it does. Thanks, m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Dear User:Master of Puppets, I just noticed that User:Binksternet started another RfC while a current one is occurring. Is this appropriate? I reverted the addition motioning for one until your response is confirmed. If it is acceptable, then I apologize and will revert my edit. I look forward to your response. With regards, AnupamTalk 15:14, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'll form my reply on ANI. m.o.p 17:12, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- When you do please take into account my comment just above, regarding Anupam's edit warring to remove talk page comments (namely these RfCs) posted by others on the talk page. If you still don't think this is WP:OWN then clearly other administrators are needed here.Griswaldo (talk) 17:15, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Dear User:Griswaldo, how is going to a neutral mediator to address the issue owning the article? I acknowledge that the article is in dispute and as a result, I am asking an administrator for advice in this matter, NOT handling things on my own, as you have done by edit warring. Your WP:OWN allegations have not only been dismissed by this administrator, but by several other users, including, User:Lionelt, User:Cody7777777 and User:NYyankees51. Thanks, AnupamTalk 17:27, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- In reply to Griswaldo: reverting the RfCs was a mistake, but we've cleared that up now. As Anupam has stated at ANI, the intent was not to discourage discussion. If you think my judgment is compromised, you're welcome to seek another administrator's input. m.o.p 21:04, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- And as further evidence of WP:OWN, see this. Anupam adds a comment to everything that anyone else says, as if he/she is the owner of the article and everyone else is a subordinate contributor. This particular instance is pretty benign (although it clutters up the talk page with an unnecessary comment that merely says "I agree"), but I do think that Anupam at least needs to learn how to avoid giving the appearance of thinking he/she owns the article, and to desist from chipping in and saying the same thing over and over again, which almost makes meaningful discussion impossible! SNALWIBMA ( talk - contribs ) 17:31, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- While the input is appreciated, as I've said before, making allegations of ownership without hard evidence isn't going to get us anywhere. Anupam is not stopping others from discussing changes or forming consensus, and that's all that matters - refactoring the talk page or commenting on an issue is not against policy, and I'm not going to tell someone to stop editing because it "looks" like they're doing something wrong. As said above, you're welcome to request another administrator's insight if you wish. m.o.p 21:04, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
COIHi
you've helped me out before, with a conflict of interest problem, so having much more experience than me on wikipedia, I thought I would be bold enough to ask again for help.
Similar problem to last, User_talk:Hobbycraft is editing the HOBBYCRAFT article and making changes that aren't citably right. I think the user name suggest and history suggests a conflict of interest case.
Can you please, speak to them addressing this issue.
Thank you very much for your help.
Markcoulter50 (talk) 22:27, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
- I've blocked that user for username violations. Thanks a lot for letting me know! Keep up the great work, m.o.p 23:00, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkbackcausa sui (talk) 18:47, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Hello. You have a new message at causa sui's talk page. causa sui (talk) 20:54, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Problematic editing on militant atheism
- I hope it's not considered defamatory to repeat the final line: "I merely present the diffs above, and let others draw their own conclusions. Is this a duck? Does it quack? You decide.". Unfortunately, the concerned community no longer has that opportunity. What did you decide on their behalf? Does this duck quack, or not? bobrayner (talk) 15:42, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- It's not your wording, it's the very idea of it. Going to what's allegorically a public place and shouting, "Hey, everybody, this man is a criminal!" is one step below blatantly forming a lynch mob. As I've said, I have no problem with your wording or evidence, just your location of choice. Wikipedia is not, unfortunately, a democracy - letting others draw their conclusions and voice their opinions is not how a sockpuppet investigation works.
- So yes, please don't go restoring any of that section. We're not discussing editors, we're discussing the content they produce. Anything else has a sub-board to deal with it (like WP:SPI).
- Hopefully that clears things up! I'll be happy to answer any more questions should you have them. Cheers, m.o.p 15:48, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Hello User:Bobrayner, I noticed the section you created on the militant atheism talk page. If you do feel the way you do about User:Turnsalso and the anonymous IP Addresses, you can take this up with WP:SPI. Thanks, AnupamTalk 15:52, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
Are you kidding my MoP? Above your write: Going to what's allegorically a public place and shouting, "Hey, everybody, this man is a criminal!" is one step below blatantly forming a lynch mob. AND We're not discussing editors, we're discussing the content they produce. Yet you call this edit by Lionelt "good faith," at WQA? MoP, I would not ask you to agree with me or to like me, but can I please ask you not to insult me with these double standards.Griswaldo (talk) 16:18, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
]
- Griswaldo, I mean no offense when I say this, but I'd appreciate it if you stayed out of discussions which didn't involve you. Also, please don't put words in my mouth. Thanks, m.o.p 16:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I have not put words in your mouth. You said that you would assume good faith about Lionel. If you "assume good faith" it means you assume his edits were in "good faith." If you did not intend that meaning I suggest you reconsider what you wrote. Also, if you want me to "stay out of discussion which don't involve me" then I suggest your first order of business should be to do the same thing yourself. You decided to post at WQA, when there was no mention of you or anything you've done in that thread. Once again, I expect people not to practice double standards. So as long as you cannot show me that you will treat me as you ask to be treated yourself, I will not oblige you. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:21, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Please stop bickering. I'm not quite sure what you're trying to accomplish here. I've already explained what I meant when I said assuming good faith, but I'll explain again: I assumed that Lionelt was not hounding or deliberately haranguing you. I did not say, at any point, that his edit content was good faith, and I've told him not to edit like that again. So please stop accusing me of saying things I haven't said.
- Also, I posted in WQA because, as a mediator in this case and as an administrator, it's my duty to weigh in on administrative noticeboards, especially when the case is an ongoing discussion I've been participating in for three months. It is not your duty to weigh in on discussions on my talk page that don't concern you. I hope the distinction is clear here. m.o.p 20:33, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I think you are confused about something. Content is never good faith. "Editing in good faith" and "good faith edits" refers to the intent of the editor always. It has nothing to do with content. My assumption that you also felt the edits were appropriate comes from the fact that you did not say they weren't appropriate and clearly feel that his intentions were good. If you'd like to set the record straight on that issue you still can. I've asked you twice now to discuss the actual edits that are the focal point of the thread. Also, I moved the thread to ANI, per the suggestion of the editor who marked it "resolved."Griswaldo (talk) 20:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- See Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#User:Lionelt_--_following_my_past_edits_to_drum_up_support_against_me. FYI, I copy pasted the entire discussion because both you and Collect were critical of my initial post and I thought it was the right thing to do to preserve that criticism in the record of the conversation. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:43, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- In reply to your first paragraph: I'm going to give up now, as it seems you're misunderstanding most of what I type, but you're the one who stated that the content was not good faith (as you said, not appropriate), and I agreed - I referred to his intent in replying to you, and said that I assumed good faith in his motives, not his replies. I can't really say that in a clearer way, so my apologies if it's hard to understand. Also, as I've already said, I've left a message for Lionelt about his edits, so clearly I do not feel they're appropriate. m.o.p 20:57, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I, too, find these double standards vexing.
- Which diff is defamatory?
- I had hitherto thought that people on the article talkpage might like to be aware of potential problems with votestacking on the article talkpage (and 3rr evasion, of course). Would it be permitted to add a link to that list of diffs when it's in a different place, or would you consider that defamatory too? bobrayner (talk) 16:23, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- As I said, the information is not defamatory, but the way it's presented is - we have specific processes available to pursue should one feel there are sockpuppets about. However, calling someone out with the intent of informing the community is overstepping your authority and damaging to the accused's character. Also, there's no way a community discussion about whether or not one editor is a sockpuppet can end in anything other than a sockpuppet investigation anyway.
- So, in closing, please don't bring issues like this to the talk page. If you're concerned about votestacking, take it to the appropriate venue - if your concerns are validated, we'll take measures against said puppets. Cheers, m.o.p 16:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I am very disappointed that it's no longer permissible to raise problems with article-editing on the article talkpage. Previous concerns about sockpuppetry were simply ignored; the difference this time is that it's backed by lots of diffs.
- I'm fairly confident that the people concerned have sufficient technical nous to make checkuser draw a blank. And, let's be entirely honest, within minutes of me creating an SPI, an admin of the right persuasion will be getting an email suggesting that an SPI needs their attention. And SPI does not see offsite coordination by a facebook group &c. Finally, any null result at SPI will be used at the article in much the same way as previous administrative decisions have been. So, I do not believe that an SPI will improve either the article, or the encyclopædia as a whole. bobrayner (talk) 17:08, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- If you don't think the pre-existing methods set in place for situations like this are sufficient, you can always raise that concern at the village pump or suggest a policy revision - however, SPI is the venue for these requests, and the only venue. The talk page can not substitute. m.o.p 17:10, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
76.228.226.122Thank you for blocking the anonymous user, who is being counterproductive and rude. (although I think the block should have been one week, but I guess ok at least)
Can you also please try to hide the edit summaries of these edits if possible?
This and
this
Thanks and regards, talk 05:04, 26 September 2011 (UTC)]
- I'll extend the block if this behaviour continues after the block period is over.
- As for the edit summaries, those don't warrant hiding - I apologize for their content, but they don't meet the criteria of what I should remove. It's best just to ignore them for now. Cheers, m.o.p 05:13, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
- Okay, good to know, if I did nothing wrong, no permanent block will be enforced. The IP does not volunteer on WP as an admin and so the disproportionately out of line comments and threats of his should be ignored. --talk 05:19, 26 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Sounds good. We only hide extremely offensive revisions; milder ones stay in the edit history. Thanks again for bringing this to our attention! Cheers, m.o.p 05:31, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
Email
Jasper Deng (talk) 05:29, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
- Reading. talk) 06:00, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Bad Girls Club
- I've blocked Junebea for 2 days for disregarding warnings. m.o.p 20:30, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks for helping :) Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 21:06, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkback
- And again.Griswaldo (talk) 04:24, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
- And again ... but maybe the last. You can settle this question once and for all. See the talk page.Griswaldo (talk) 06:09, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'm sure I'm not alone in wanting to hear your replies to the last responses posed to you at that page. IMO, I don't know why you went down the road you did, but as far as I can tell you're blatantly misrepesenting facts about your own actions when people are brining concerns to you. You might think that since you closed the RfC the matter is settled, but it is not. You're actions have not made my life any more pleasant in the last few days vis-a-vis trying to deal with Anupam's disruption and I think you owe us all answers. So please revisit this thread and deal with the open questions. Thanks.Griswaldo (talk) 02:19, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
- I invite you to stop asking the same question again and again. This would be appreciated. Thanks, m.o.p 02:33, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Block question
- No, I just block obviously bad-faith accounts on sight. Advertising/spam accounts fall under that category. m.o.p 00:37, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Thanks
- Thank you. I've unlocked the article for whatever may come. If I'm needed again, feel free to let me know. Thanks for the kind words again, m.o.p 05:12, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
reminder
- We're still waiting to see if the user understands COI policy (per Ed's question). I'll prod the user and see if they'll answer. talk) 19:20, 30 September 2011 (UTC)]
Nextel logo deleted
- Mmm, good point. What's the link to the logo in question? m.o.p 01:33, 2 October 2011 (UTC)
Support of Sage City SymphonyYou deleted this page before I had a chance to go back in and add the stuff that you wanted to see, including the links within Wikipedia to important composers such as Lou Callabro (who started this orchestra and cites it in his Wikipedia page) and Susan Hurley whose work we premiered (SC is also mentioned in her Wikipedia entry). (Let alone links about the works we have performed.) And we have a web site at www.sagecitysymphony.org, have existed for over 35 yrs and are a significant cultural resource in the Bennington area such that we receive grants from local, statewide and national foundations.
I broke my wrist last weekend and am doing one-handed pecking so it'll take me a few days to get that loaded in. We are going out for a bit now, but I would appreciate your undeleting the page so that I don't have to re-invent the starting part when I go back in tomorrow to add links. Or delete it entirely so that I can start fresh - at this point either would work as long as I can start some serious work on it tomorrow. I am the webmaster by the way, so I do have access to content and more links.
Thank you, Celia Murray — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.228.127.119 (talk) 14:22, 1 October 2011 (UTC)
- It looks like fixed everything up. Best of luck, m.o.p 01:35, 2 October 2011 (UTC)]
Reply on Deterence's talk page
MA
After the beating you took you deserve a cold one--on me! Thanks for being fair and balanced – Lionel (talk) 03:55, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
- Hey, thanks! Glad to help out. :) m.o.p 03:56, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
Deletion of Mau5trap Recordings
--neocharles (talk) 07:33, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Existence does not equal notability - the subject has to be notable to get a Wikipedia page. m.o.p 12:05, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
Questoin re: AIV
- Addendum, actually, I read it very clearly in WP:VANDNOT: "Uploading or using material on Wikipedia in violation of Wikipedia's copyright policies is prohibited, but is not vandalism unless the user does so maliciously or fails to heed warnings." So if a person fails to heed warnings it is vandalism. My mistake here was that I only warned once. --Muhandes (talk) 12:29, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Eh, technically it is vandalism, but the user seems to be trying to improve the Wikipedia - that desire to help is misplaced in this case, as they seem to think that using copyrighted content is actually better. Weird. For most cases, yes, you should report copyvio to AIV - as long as they've been warned sufficiently. m.o.p 12:42, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- OK, he now did it again and the time stamp is after your last warning. Is it vandalism now? --Muhandes (talk) 12:32, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Yeah, if they're outright ignoring warnings. I've blocked for three days. m.o.p 12:40, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
Classmusic
- Oh, I know. But if somebody's lied to my face about using another account - and to other editors working on the article - I'm not about to let them go without a repercussion or two. I'd like Almost-instinct and Voceditnore to look over the article and fix up anything shifty. Also, I'd like Classmusic to respond to my warning, instead of blanking it and ignoring like they have to the above-named editors.
- So, in short, I know that COI doesn't bar editing, but it's enough of a concern that, given the user's recent behaviour, I'll stop them from doing anything until we've figured things out. This isn't too rouge-y, is it? I didn't hear that. Perhaps he is unaware of the sockpuppet investigation findings. Anyhow it seems that DeltaQuad has also blocked the Classmusic account. I left a note on his page about using the unblock template, but re-iterated that he needs to read the COI and Autobiography guidelines and stick to them scrupulously, if he gets unblocked. In the Opera and Classical Music WikiProjects, we get a lot of articles for performers, ensembles, etc. created by their agents and PR people, and often themselves. In my experience, the best I can hope for after one of these tussles is that they'll edit their article according to the guidelines in future. I have yet to find a single one who has ever contributed anything else to Wikipedia. Their only interest in the project is as a PR tool. Having said that, at least it results (after much red-pencilling from other editors) in one new article on a notable subject that we didn't have before and in a small way redresses the pop culture systemic bias here. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 13:40, 5 October 2011 (UTC)]
Danish election
- Never mind, it's been pulled by another admin. All the best, Jenks24 (talk) 11:03, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry about that! I was busy all day and didn't get your message until now. Thanks for letting me know, though! Cheers, m.o.p 19:51, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
3RRHey there! :)
Well WP:CRYSTAL has wined down, however, there's currently a
The Bad Girls Club (season 7). I have notified the two users [32], [33]. The evidence can be found here. They are having an edit-conflict on how the "Duration of cast" should be presented. Since there's no rules regarding anything like that, and it was made up about a year ago, I couldn't warned them to stop their e/c with anything except the 3RR rule. Maybe they need an admin to tell them to stop, so that's why I came to you :) Thanks, Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 01:17, 6 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Temporary page protection requested. Calabe1992 (talk) 01:29, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
AFD
- Your input is appreciated, though there's nothing I can do with it but take a note. If you'd like, you can weigh in at the next AfD(s), when/if they arise. Cheers, m.o.p 19:42, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
Dr Myko San – Health from Mushrooms
- I'd be happy to help! However, I'm currently away from a computer (typing this on my phone), so I'll have to check in on the 11th of July. Does that sound okay? m.o.p 15:40, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
- wp:NODEADLINE :-) LeadSongDog come howl! 15:48, 7 July 2011 (UTC)]
From a former Wikipedian
-71.234.90.0 (talk) 04:50, 8 July 2011 (UTC)
- Hey, thanks so much! I'm not sure who you are, but I really appreciate the sentiment. Hope all is well! m.o.p 20:49, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
Deletion review for Thomas James Ball
DRV comment
DRV
Could you please overturn the deletion of these files per File:Signature of Amitabh Bachchan.svg and File:Signature of Zakir Hussain.svg:
- File:Signature of Vishwanathan Anand.svg
- File:Signature of Vijay Mallya.svg
- File:Signature of Venkaiah Naidu.svg
- File:Signature of Sudeep Bandhopadhyay.svg
- File:Signature of Sonia Gandhi.svg
- File:Signature of Somnath Chatterjee.svg
- File:Signature of Ratan Tata.svg
- File:Signature of Kumar Mangalam Birla.svg
- File:Signature of Rajeev Shukla.svg
- File:Signature of Raj Babbar.svg
- File:Signature of Rahul Gandhi.svg
- File:Signature of Priyanka Vadra.svg
- File:Signature of P. T. Usha.svg
- File:Signature of Narendra Modi.svg
- File:Signature of Nandan Nilekani.svg
- File:Signature of Manish Tewari.svg
- File:Signature of Leander Paes.svg
- File:Signature of Lata Mangeshkar.svg
- File:Signature of Kumar Mangalam Birla.svg
- File:Signature of Karia Munda.svg
- File:Signature of Kapil Sibal.svg
- File:Signature of Kamal Nath.svg
- File:Signature of K. Kamraj.svg
- File:Signature of Jaya Bachchan.svg
- File:Signature of Gautam Gambhir.svg
- File:Signature of Brinda Karat.svg
- File:Signature of Bharatsinh Solanki.svg
- File:Signature of Bhairon Singh Shekhawat.svg
- File:Signature of B. K. Birla.svg
- File:Signature of Azim Premji.svg
- File:Signature of Arun Jaitely.svg
- File:Signature of Aishwarya Rai Bachchan.svg
- File:Signature of Abhishek Manu Singhvi.svg
- File:Signature of Abhishek Bachchan.svg
- File:Signature of Sting.svg
- File:Signature of Br. L. D. Lobo.svg
- File:Signature of VJ Rannvijay Singh Singha.svg
Diligent07Appears to be less than new. See User talk:Raoulduke25 where he states that this is a deliberate series of edits.
- Can you please help defend our collective effort of including the obscene middle-finger incident in the Cheney Mason article? It should be maintained in the article for public interest, etc. Please see the Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard#Cheney Mason discussion page and include your thoughts in favor of having the content remain in the interests of the public, etc
[8], [9] and even imputation that an editor has a connection with the person [10]. He has been on since April, and started off as being experienced on WP IMHO. Kindly keep an eye out please. Especially for any sign of a real "collective effort"? Such as [11]? Cheers. Collect (talk) 11:36, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
A cookie for you!
Keep up the good work defending the "Wiki" against genre warriors. Thanks for the help! talk) 17:31, 13 July 2011 (UTC)]
Hello. You have a new message at Lionelt's talk page.
Semi protection
OK, this thing with the militant atheism page is impossibleThese guys are incredible... I could dig up diffs to show you how they revert and wikilawyer even the SMALLEST attempt to move the article closer to NPOV. But that would take a long time for you to read. How about I show you this instead:
These guys are utterly without scruples. Who in their right mind would remove the NPOV dispute tag when heated arguments have been raging for weeks and NO moves whatsoever have been made to fix the article? Oh right, that would be someone in their right mind who is running a propaganda platform.
Anyway... I wanted to ask your advice on what to do. These guys are impossible to work with. Most of the other editors have given up and refuse to put this page on their watchlist. So what to do then? Request formal mediation? Articles for deletion? Something else?
Me and the other editors would like to see the page replaced with a disambiguation page... since literally ALL the content has already been covered (better) in Criticism of atheism, State atheism and New Atheism.
Obhave (talk) 13:21, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
- Hello User:Master of Puppets. I noticed this conversation and thought I might add that an NPOV policy. Obhave (talk) 13:11, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
- One more thing, m.o.p... my opponents are currently twisting your words to make it look as if you were scolding user:Mann_jess all along. Obhave (talk) 14:42, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
]
User:Jasper Deng page protection
- No worries! m.o.p 19:35, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
Is there a procedure for brutal uncollaborated editing with a destructive intent?I noticed that you recently had problems with proposed brutal editing by Peter S Strempel. Although he has been more sensible on your project in the end (possibly because of your administrator status?) he has not been so with regard to the astrology project pages to which he made a similar 'razor-promise'. Could you please see this Afd request which is one of three he made for major 'history of astrology' articles within the last hour, with a promise on another important page that any comment which is not refrences within 7 days will be removed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Babylonian_astrology
Is there anything that can be done about this officially to stop him wreaking havoc with content whilst he knows that the small group of editors providing content on these pages are already stretched to the limit trying to keep up with what needs to be done? I don't understand what drives some people to want to edit WP like this, but I think it is entriely the result of his ego-stress that when he proposed an edit for a passage, no one favoured it. Hope you can help or advise Zac Δ talk 01:15, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks! assume good faith; I believe that Peter is simply trying to help improve Wikipedia. While his methods may be lacking in some areas, he has displayed a pretty decent grasp on the policies he's trying to enforce.
- However, I agree that he shouldn't be making any changes if they're not discussed with the community first. Do you mind pulling up a few diffs of where he went against consensus? I'll approach him with your concern then. Thanks, m.o.p 03:57, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
- Actually there hasn't been any significant content dispute with Peter. He proposed a change to a section edit which wasn't a very good proposition and a few editors commented but without rancur, and I added a new section post immediately afterwards to point out the proiposed change would contradict with how the definition was given correctly at a later point in the article, outlining how I understood WP policy expected the main astrology article to pull its own content together, along with its summarised content from its daughter pages. Peter never responded to this but other editors started working in that direction immediately. Then, without further discussion or comment, Peter came back four days later to announce an intention to take his 'word razor' to all unreferenced assertions on the main astrology page, its sub-pages, and the portal page itself, to ensure his perceived disagreement was not circumvented in pages he viewed as content forks (I'm still not sure what he means by that). My response to that can be seen - a perfectly reasonable request for him to do what he felt was most productive, but consider that citation-tagging was the way to go. I also placed comments on his talk-page, which you can read if you are interested. That he erupted into a frenzy of AfD requests last night says something, I think, about his unwillingness to discuss and engage in other views. Most of his posts appear as new section declarations that don't appear to have considered the responses other editors give him.
- I've summarised this in the ANI request Dougweller started. The deletion requests were a step too far IMO, and I'm concerned that Peter would spring to such drastic measures in reaction to what he perceives to be me not allowing him to do what he wants to do. I'll be away for a few days so I'm tying up my WP activity now. That underlines my concern that he intends to take such drastic action with only one week's notice of intent. Thanks for looking into this. It would be good if something could be proposed to stop huge problems before they occur. 10:35, 22 July 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zachariel (talk • contribs
)
- One last request. I have just noticed that a related complaint, which is quite serious but has been sidetracked (deliberatly IMO) by Peter's suggestions that I have prevented him from doing what he wants, has been collapsed as "going nowehere" by an unsympathetic editor.
- "Its ben here several days and no admin has even sniffed at a block or ban - clearly you're not going to get admin action. So this should got to WP:DR or WP:RFCU if you want to take it further. I've boldly collapsed this, though I won't be surprised if someone uncollapses it"
- If you can find the time could you at least take a look at that related problem, and consider uncollapsing it, because the issues are serious and have gone beyond the point where Dispute resolution are appropriate. I will be away and have nothing more to add, but the problems identified still remain. Zac Δ talk 10:58, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
What to do?
- I've started a threat at ANI. Those AfDs are purely pointy and if no one objects I'll close them. talk) 06:11, 22 July 2011 (UTC)]
- Replied there. m.o.p 08:20, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
Talk Page on Militant Atheism - Introduction Section
- The update is appreciated, thanks very much. I've been dealing with life for the past two weeks, but I'll be back to close that discussion tonight or tomorrow. Thanks again, m.o.p 22:03, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
- Just bringing this up again, given the current state of this section. I believe the discussion will be archived automatically if not closed. I'm sorry if I sound pushy with you having a lot on your plate of late. If you would prefer, I could alert User:Fastily instead. Turnsalso (talk) 16:55, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
ITN
- I knew that tab I closed had unfinished business on it... thanks. 2008 University of Central Arkansas shootings is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.
The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2008 University of Central Arkansas shootings(2nd nomination) until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on good quality evidence, and our policies and guidelines.
Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article.
talk 14:00, 1 September 2011 (UTC)]
Hey
- Done! Both your userpage and the transcluded page are protected. Cheers, « ₣M₣ » 04:09, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Restored. m.o.p 05:21, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
]
User talk:Joshua the Independent
- My mistake - my block script auto-filled the edit summary. The block was issued due to the user's newfound will to disrupt Wikipedia intentionally. Their previous contributions are welcome, but this behaviour necessitates administrative action. m.o.p 21:52, 13 September 2011 (UTC)
Say hi to your imaginary girlfriend for me
- Well, I do love getting hate mail. Thanks for the laugh! Cheers, m.o.p 05:17, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
...further to the above lovely note, I weighed in on Calabe's talk page - there appears to be more confusion here than at first glance. bou·le·var·dier (talk) 05:19, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
Sorry to drop by again, but Silentsizzlingsausage (talk · contribs) would appear to be a duck. bou·le·var·dier (talk) 05:31, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
- No, it's not an issue! Thanks for the note, blocked. Cheers, WP:SPI. Thanks again, m.o.p 06:13, 14 September 2011 (UTC)]
I have to admit ...
- See the above section. The link is apparently a very subtle spam link that Calabe is removing, and socks are springing up to revert him. Swarm u / t 10:20, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
Moderation
- Alright, I'll make my way back. Thanks for letting me know! m.o.p 05:18, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
User:12.139.96.228
- To be honest, this case is perplexing. Half of this user's edits are constructive (mostly sourced), the other half aren't sourced - and the user won't reply to anybody. I'm also too busy to go through every edit and confirm whether or not it's good. I forgot about this for a while - I'll think about it tonight and figure something out for tomorrow. Thanks for reminding me! m.o.p 05:18, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
Whoops
- Whoops! Must not have been looking when I ran my block script. Thanks for letting me know, I've reblocked them for a far shorter (technically, an infinitely shorter) time. Cheers, m.o.p 22:58, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
Ashleyleggat404
- You're fully right in that the blanking policy covers indefinite blocks. I've removed the user's talk page rights as a result. Thanks again! m.o.p 00:28, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkback
Moderation
- If you look into this please consider whether Anupam's actions on the talk page and the entry itself are violations of WP:OWN. He's been driving off those he disagrees with by bludgening them to death with argument and heavily policing the entry claiming that there is a consensus written in stone despite many dissenting voices. Others have taken to simply calling him "the article's owner." I have had enough of this behavior personally and left him a message about it on his talk page. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:52, 20 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Dear User:Master of Puppets, the above user has misrepresented the occurrences at the article. I started another Introduction discussion at the article's talk page but User:Griswaldo has chosen to edit war over a second NPOV tag, despite the fact that one already exists in the article. He has done so despite the fact that the Introduction is being discussed in a peaceful manner at the talk page, in violation of your injunction: "We've only got consensus on this proposed versions (and loose consensus at that) - please do not attempt to subvert said consensus by making undiscussed changes." I have posted a message on his talk page about this behaviour. Nevertheless, I also do not wish to argue with the user personally and would prefer if you could go back to moderating the discussion between the two parties at the talk page. Thanks for taking the time to read this message. With regards, AnupamTalk 20:58, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- His "injunction?" Adding a neutrality tag to a specific sentence which an editor disputes the neutrality of is hardly "subverting the consensus by making undiscussed changes." Please stop wikilawyering to get your way. There is a growing consensus against your position regarding this article in general as well, despite your aggressive policing of the entry and the talk page. See ]
- I just thought that I would mention that User:Griswaldo, after seeing this message, just now decided to comment in the discussion rather than edit war against consensus further. Thanks for taking the time to read this message. With regards, AnupamTalk 21:51, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- "Edit war against consensus further?" My comment there has nothing to do with your message here. I've made three total edits to this entry ever. One was a copy edit in June, another was reverting an IP vandal, and the third was the revert of your Ownership edit. Please do not insinuate that I'm a edit warrior on this page. It is disingenuous.Griswaldo (talk) 22:08, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Thank you all for approaching me with your concerns.
- Obviously, I do not support Anupam - this is because I'm remaining a neutral third party, and, therefore, can't take sides. However, Griswaldo: please keep in mind that I did ask for all discussion to take place on the talk page. Why not just add your complaints to the talk page? It would have been much easier to discuss.
- I do agree that adding a NPOV tag, while slightly redundant, isn't horrible, but your intent seems to have been to stir discussion on that particular section, discussion that would be much more appropriate on the talk page.
- As for your and Snalwibma's concerns of Anupam trying to 'own' the article, I'm curious as to what you two mean; what 'delusions'?
- Also, Griswaldo, I don't think Anupam meant to insinuate you are an edit warrior (though this is just my take) - rather, they wanted to add the note that you've weighed in on discussion. m.o.p 22:10, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- your intent seems to have been to stir discussion on that particular section - No that's incorrect. I didn't add this tag, I simply reverted Anupam's attempt to own the page when he removed it. I agreed with JimWae's addition of the tag and found Anupam's removal to be unwarranted and a display of ownership.Griswaldo (talk) 22:16, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Note that, for all intents and purposes, reverting somebody is adding whatever is included in your edit, regardless of who put it there first. You revert a removal, you're agreeing with the edition you're reverting to - simple.
- And, if you agreed with JimWae, then we go back to what I was saying earlier - say so on the talk page. Two of you agree? Great! That's closer to consensus. But it means nothing if you express your support by reverting removals.
- Again, as I've asked multiple times, please stop saying that Anupam is owning anything without giving me evidence of it first. m.o.p 22:22, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Dear User:Master of Puppets, thank you for your reply to all of us. The reason User:Snalwibma stated that I was attempting to "own" the article was because I reverted an undiscussed removal from the article, which not only myself, but two other users objected to. In fact, two anonymous IP Addresses also reverted User:Snalwibma. I was open to compromise on the issue and stated that I would accept User:Turnsalso's compromise on the issue. I kindly request you to look at that discussion yourself and get an honest reading of it. Also, the only reason I removed the second NPOV tag was because there was already one present, which I did not remove. I only reverted the addition of a second NPOV tag once and even explained myself on the talk page. When I went to the talk page, I found rude accusations and an anti-collaborative spirit, despite the fact that I have been nothing but polite. I hope this helps. With regards, AnupamTalk 22:25, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry - I know I should not rise to the bait, but I have to object to the comment "The reason User:Snalwibma stated that I was attempting to 'own' the article was because I reverted an undiscussed removal ..." How dare Anupam presume to know what is in my mind! The reason I describe Anupam's attitude to the article as one of ownership is because that is how s/he behaves - "policing" every edit, pronouncing on whether s/he "accepts" or "rejects" it, peremptorily reverting anything s/he does not like, without discussion, presuming to know others' motives, and judging them as fit/unfit to contribute to the article. This has been going on for weeks, if not months. It is impossible to discuss the content of the article, let alone improve the text, because everything is filtered through the approval/disapproval of the article's self-appointed guardian, Anupam. tendentious or disruptive when they bring up certain issues, even when they are clearly in the majority. That is not collaborative. I stopped editing the article heavily because of those issues. I don't have any delusions that my opinion is worth more than anyone else's here, but I would think that the large number of established, experienced editors who are all saying there's a problem, would indicate something. — Jess· Δ♥ 19:45, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
Please reconsider your full protection of Militant atheist
- In case you didn't notice, I asked that people think twice about pointing fingers at each other. If you'd like to start a sockpuppetry investigation, let me know, and we can take that avenue - however, don't accuse other editors of ownership without substance. If you think Anupam is trying to own things, give me something. Diffs, edits, anything. I'll check it out for you, but right now, baseless accusations are not what I'm looking for.
- Also, notice that I protected the article with your edit being the last one. How is that validating the very person you've been reverting?
- The protection will stay until consensus is reached. m.o.p 22:19, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Because protection is what he wants quite clearly. He's stalling conversation and shouting down people on the talk page, where, if you have a look, you'll see he's clearly in the minority. Because of your "injunction" as he calls it, he also claims that no matter how many people agree with a certain change it is illegitimate. I'll be happy to gather some diffs, but my first message to you above was to please look into the situation carefully before acting on it. Did you do that and come to the conclusion that I'm wrong or did you not head that request? Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:29, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Yes, I did heed your request. I don't see any ownership behaviour from Anupam, though, being involved in multiple disputes, I didn't have the time to read every last word on the page, so you're free to provide evidence. However, from what I can see, Anupam's last proposal was supported by the majority - not to count (and I don't mean to imply that I decide where consensus lies by looking at pure numbers), but from looking at pure supports versus opposes, eight people (nine including Anupam) support while four oppose. How does that make Anupam's views a minority? m.o.p 22:37, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- It depends on what view you are talking about. The current RFC on the introduction is something that most people don't even want to engage because most people think this very entry should be split up and integrated into other entries. I reluctantly engaged the RfC just now myself. The last time the more serious question about the entry was asked, several of the new commentators were not around, and there was "no consensus" found because the opposing side was chalk full of SPAs and editors with a view that is outright hostile to atheism (which is a legitimate view to hold, but it is a minority view). Let me find you some diffs.Griswaldo (talk) 22:43, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- User:Griswaldo, that is exactly the issue: you do not want to collaborate with other users on the talk page, which is why you were reluctant to participate in the current RfC. Moreover, there were several SPA's on the side of the opposition as well, including WP:NPOV. In addition, the split was again recently discussed and the specific case to do so was refuted by several editors. As such, there was no consensus for it. I hope this helps. With regards, AnupamTalk 22:52, 20 September 2011 (UTC)]
- No. You are trying to write an article that violates WP:SYNTH because it conflates New Atheism with oppressive communist regimes and their histories of violence. That's hardly NPOV. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:59, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
Hi m.o.p., as someone who occasionally looks at that page (and then washes my hands), I just want to compliment you as having done the right thing in full protecting. By way of unsolicited advice to the involved editors, the best thing they could do is to allow The Wrong Version to sit there a good long time, and devote their energy to other things. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:54, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
]
Yes, please reconsider your full protection of
WP:RS—deserve protection against misinformed reverts. Thanks Geremia (talk) 16:12, 22 September 2011 (UTC)]
Diffs of
- I'm not really sure where the ownership is here; nowhere in our policies is it stated that a user can't promote their RFC on the subject talk page. If it's ongoing and they'd like to move it to the forefront, what's wrong with that? More so, some of your summaries seem inaccurate - in that last diff, you state that Anupam is removing images, yet I only see Anupam adding an image (the peace dove that's at the top of the page). Also, you use repeating examples. m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Well clearly the last diff was wrong. Thanks for the vote of confidence. There are no repeat examples nor inaccurate summaries, just a mistaken copy paste of the second to last diff to the last position as well. I have fixed it. Cheers.
- Using "consensus claims from one RfC to reject changes made to article content
- Same as above. Using the "consensus" bludgeon to get his way. Please note that clearly we ought to edit by consensus, but this consensus is highly disputed, and IMO not there in the first place. The real problem is the way in which Anupam decides to use it like a trump card to remove changes he doesn't like. Ask yourself if all changes post "consensus" have been removed or just the ones Anupam decided he wanted removed.
Master of Puppets do you need more diffs or is this enough?Griswaldo (talk) 23:31, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Well I need more diffs because your "evidence" so far looks like a desperate attempt to incriminate an editor who has been very successful in persuading his colleagues to adopt his proposals. Anupam has presented his proposals, argued the merits and persuaded many editors. Anything you want to tell us about why you're having difficulty doing likewise? – Lionel (talk) 06:02, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- I don't see this is as conclusive evidence, either. And, it should be said - if people are editing against established consensus, then people are free to re-evaluate consensus, but edit-warring against it doesn't make much sense. m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- If not ownership then what is this - [28], [29], [30]? He removes two RfCs started by another editor, and revolving around the question that many of us actually find to be the fundamental question to answer regarding the entry. Then he edit wars to keep these RfCs off the page, claiming again to have some sort of authority stemming from your prior actions. If you aren't willing to do something here I'm going to another administrator and I'm going to ask for your initial "consensus," your strong arm administrating, and your lack of action here to be reviewed as well. Thanks.Griswaldo (talk) 17:08, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Anupam has already apologized for reverting those RfC additions, and we've moved past it. He also didn't claim to have administrative authority, but was waiting for my approval. We've cleared this up, it's not an issue. So no, I'm not going to take any action (as I've said here and on ANI). Now, if you'd like to threaten me and tell me that, since I'm not cooperating with your wills, you'll go to another administrator, that's fine - as I've said, you can seek outside opinions - but remember to keep a cool head, because borderline threats are not appreciated. m.o.p 21:49, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- It was not a threat, "borderline" or otherwise. You are conveniently ignoring a growing number of voices who are all saying the same thing - there is an ownership problem here. The deletion issue has not been "cleared up" as far as I'm concerned. Whenever it is mentioned Anupam insists that he did not "unilaterally" delete the RfCs from the page, which is a blatant distortion, since that is exactly what he did. He continues to act as a policeman at the page, and yes he does continue to cite your authority. Did you bother to read the many diffs I posted above in the second two sections? I will quote three random examples from those I provided for you if you want.
- When he first deleted the two RfCs he wrote: "rv - see discussion with reviewing administrator; approval needed to start another RfC while one is already occurring."
- When he deleted a fact tag that JimWae put into the lede: "rv excessive tagging per talk; tag is already extant in header; do not subvert previous consensus but gain consensus for potential additions per administrative notice"
- When he rejected another recent change to the entry: "accepted edits by User:Jkhwiki; rv removal of longstanding referenced content - see discussion on talk page and gain consensus for action per administrative injunction"
- In talk page comments and in edit summaries he consistently does the same thing. He refers to your authority, either directly or indirectly through your "notice" or your "injunction" as he likes to call it. I never said the claimed to have administrative authority, I said that he's using your authority, by way of your comments, such as the closure of the AfD to bully people. Do you deny that he citing your comments, because if you do then I must have fabricated those quotes. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:32, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
If you say "If you don't do A, then I'm going to go and do B", that's a threat. Anyway, that's not the issue - we've already covered all the issues with the RfC reverting, and Anupam won't do it again. Why keep raising hell over it?
We've already covered everything you bring up. And no, I'm not denying anything. I'm just saying this, and it's very simple: I don't think there has been any blatant ownership here. That's my judgment. If you disagree, again, feel free to raise this with another administrator or on ANI. m.o.p 23:12, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Regarding the new RFC, I still think there has not passed yet too much time since the last discussion about splitting the article. As far as I knew, repeating these sorts of debates (like splitting, deleting, renaming) before a larger amount of time has passed (like 6 months) is usually discouraged. And as others have also argued earlier, even if having multiple RFCs is possible, it's not very useful, and the new RFC seems to discourage further discussion about improving the lead introduction. So preventing multiple RFCs (and also a RFC about an issue debated not too long ago) does not look to me like evidence of bad faith intentions. Cody7777777 (talk) 21:37, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Cody, would you mind linking me to the previous RfC on splitting? m.o.p 21:49, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- The previous attempt to split the article can be found here. Cody7777777 (talk) 21:55, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Response
Yes, it does. Thanks, m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Dear User:Master of Puppets, I just noticed that User:Binksternet started another RfC while a current one is occurring. Is this appropriate? I reverted the addition motioning for one until your response is confirmed. If it is acceptable, then I apologize and will revert my edit. I look forward to your response. With regards, AnupamTalk 15:14, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'll form my reply on ANI. m.o.p 17:12, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- When you do please take into account my comment just above, regarding Anupam's edit warring to remove talk page comments (namely these RfCs) posted by others on the talk page. If you still don't think this is WP:OWN then clearly other administrators are needed here.Griswaldo (talk) 17:15, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Dear User:Griswaldo, how is going to a neutral mediator to address the issue owning the article? I acknowledge that the article is in dispute and as a result, I am asking an administrator for advice in this matter, NOT handling things on my own, as you have done by edit warring. Your WP:OWN allegations have not only been dismissed by this administrator, but by several other users, including, User:Lionelt, User:Cody7777777 and User:NYyankees51. Thanks, AnupamTalk 17:27, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- In reply to Griswaldo: reverting the RfCs was a mistake, but we've cleared that up now. As Anupam has stated at ANI, the intent was not to discourage discussion. If you think my judgment is compromised, you're welcome to seek another administrator's input. m.o.p 21:04, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- And as further evidence of WP:OWN, see this. Anupam adds a comment to everything that anyone else says, as if he/she is the owner of the article and everyone else is a subordinate contributor. This particular instance is pretty benign (although it clutters up the talk page with an unnecessary comment that merely says "I agree"), but I do think that Anupam at least needs to learn how to avoid giving the appearance of thinking he/she owns the article, and to desist from chipping in and saying the same thing over and over again, which almost makes meaningful discussion impossible! SNALWIBMA ( talk - contribs ) 17:31, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- While the input is appreciated, as I've said before, making allegations of ownership without hard evidence isn't going to get us anywhere. Anupam is not stopping others from discussing changes or forming consensus, and that's all that matters - refactoring the talk page or commenting on an issue is not against policy, and I'm not going to tell someone to stop editing because it "looks" like they're doing something wrong. As said above, you're welcome to request another administrator's insight if you wish. m.o.p 21:04, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
COIHi
you've helped me out before, with a conflict of interest problem, so having much more experience than me on wikipedia, I thought I would be bold enough to ask again for help.
Similar problem to last, User_talk:Hobbycraft is editing the HOBBYCRAFT article and making changes that aren't citably right. I think the user name suggest and history suggests a conflict of interest case.
Can you please, speak to them addressing this issue.
Thank you very much for your help.
Markcoulter50 (talk) 22:27, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
- I've blocked that user for username violations. Thanks a lot for letting me know! Keep up the great work, m.o.p 23:00, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkbackcausa sui (talk) 18:47, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Hello. You have a new message at causa sui's talk page. causa sui (talk) 20:54, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Problematic editing on militant atheism
- I hope it's not considered defamatory to repeat the final line: "I merely present the diffs above, and let others draw their own conclusions. Is this a duck? Does it quack? You decide.". Unfortunately, the concerned community no longer has that opportunity. What did you decide on their behalf? Does this duck quack, or not? bobrayner (talk) 15:42, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- It's not your wording, it's the very idea of it. Going to what's allegorically a public place and shouting, "Hey, everybody, this man is a criminal!" is one step below blatantly forming a lynch mob. As I've said, I have no problem with your wording or evidence, just your location of choice. Wikipedia is not, unfortunately, a democracy - letting others draw their conclusions and voice their opinions is not how a sockpuppet investigation works.
- So yes, please don't go restoring any of that section. We're not discussing editors, we're discussing the content they produce. Anything else has a sub-board to deal with it (like WP:SPI).
- Hopefully that clears things up! I'll be happy to answer any more questions should you have them. Cheers, m.o.p 15:48, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Hello User:Bobrayner, I noticed the section you created on the militant atheism talk page. If you do feel the way you do about User:Turnsalso and the anonymous IP Addresses, you can take this up with WP:SPI. Thanks, AnupamTalk 15:52, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
Are you kidding my MoP? Above your write: Going to what's allegorically a public place and shouting, "Hey, everybody, this man is a criminal!" is one step below blatantly forming a lynch mob. AND We're not discussing editors, we're discussing the content they produce. Yet you call this edit by Lionelt "good faith," at WQA? MoP, I would not ask you to agree with me or to like me, but can I please ask you not to insult me with these double standards.Griswaldo (talk) 16:18, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
]
- Griswaldo, I mean no offense when I say this, but I'd appreciate it if you stayed out of discussions which didn't involve you. Also, please don't put words in my mouth. Thanks, m.o.p 16:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I have not put words in your mouth. You said that you would assume good faith about Lionel. If you "assume good faith" it means you assume his edits were in "good faith." If you did not intend that meaning I suggest you reconsider what you wrote. Also, if you want me to "stay out of discussion which don't involve me" then I suggest your first order of business should be to do the same thing yourself. You decided to post at WQA, when there was no mention of you or anything you've done in that thread. Once again, I expect people not to practice double standards. So as long as you cannot show me that you will treat me as you ask to be treated yourself, I will not oblige you. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:21, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Please stop bickering. I'm not quite sure what you're trying to accomplish here. I've already explained what I meant when I said assuming good faith, but I'll explain again: I assumed that Lionelt was not hounding or deliberately haranguing you. I did not say, at any point, that his edit content was good faith, and I've told him not to edit like that again. So please stop accusing me of saying things I haven't said.
- Also, I posted in WQA because, as a mediator in this case and as an administrator, it's my duty to weigh in on administrative noticeboards, especially when the case is an ongoing discussion I've been participating in for three months. It is not your duty to weigh in on discussions on my talk page that don't concern you. I hope the distinction is clear here. m.o.p 20:33, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I think you are confused about something. Content is never good faith. "Editing in good faith" and "good faith edits" refers to the intent of the editor always. It has nothing to do with content. My assumption that you also felt the edits were appropriate comes from the fact that you did not say they weren't appropriate and clearly feel that his intentions were good. If you'd like to set the record straight on that issue you still can. I've asked you twice now to discuss the actual edits that are the focal point of the thread. Also, I moved the thread to ANI, per the suggestion of the editor who marked it "resolved."Griswaldo (talk) 20:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- See Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#User:Lionelt_--_following_my_past_edits_to_drum_up_support_against_me. FYI, I copy pasted the entire discussion because both you and Collect were critical of my initial post and I thought it was the right thing to do to preserve that criticism in the record of the conversation. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:43, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- In reply to your first paragraph: I'm going to give up now, as it seems you're misunderstanding most of what I type, but you're the one who stated that the content was not good faith (as you said, not appropriate), and I agreed - I referred to his intent in replying to you, and said that I assumed good faith in his motives, not his replies. I can't really say that in a clearer way, so my apologies if it's hard to understand. Also, as I've already said, I've left a message for Lionelt about his edits, so clearly I do not feel they're appropriate. m.o.p 20:57, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I, too, find these double standards vexing.
- Which diff is defamatory?
- I had hitherto thought that people on the article talkpage might like to be aware of potential problems with votestacking on the article talkpage (and 3rr evasion, of course). Would it be permitted to add a link to that list of diffs when it's in a different place, or would you consider that defamatory too? bobrayner (talk) 16:23, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- As I said, the information is not defamatory, but the way it's presented is - we have specific processes available to pursue should one feel there are sockpuppets about. However, calling someone out with the intent of informing the community is overstepping your authority and damaging to the accused's character. Also, there's no way a community discussion about whether or not one editor is a sockpuppet can end in anything other than a sockpuppet investigation anyway.
- So, in closing, please don't bring issues like this to the talk page. If you're concerned about votestacking, take it to the appropriate venue - if your concerns are validated, we'll take measures against said puppets. Cheers, m.o.p 16:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I am very disappointed that it's no longer permissible to raise problems with article-editing on the article talkpage. Previous concerns about sockpuppetry were simply ignored; the difference this time is that it's backed by lots of diffs.
- I'm fairly confident that the people concerned have sufficient technical nous to make checkuser draw a blank. And, let's be entirely honest, within minutes of me creating an SPI, an admin of the right persuasion will be getting an email suggesting that an SPI needs their attention. And SPI does not see offsite coordination by a facebook group &c. Finally, any null result at SPI will be used at the article in much the same way as previous administrative decisions have been. So, I do not believe that an SPI will improve either the article, or the encyclopædia as a whole. bobrayner (talk) 17:08, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- If you don't think the pre-existing methods set in place for situations like this are sufficient, you can always raise that concern at the village pump or suggest a policy revision - however, SPI is the venue for these requests, and the only venue. The talk page can not substitute. m.o.p 17:10, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
76.228.226.122Thank you for blocking the anonymous user, who is being counterproductive and rude. (although I think the block should have been one week, but I guess ok at least)
Can you also please try to hide the edit summaries of these edits if possible?
This and
this
Thanks and regards, talk 05:04, 26 September 2011 (UTC)]
- I'll extend the block if this behaviour continues after the block period is over.
- As for the edit summaries, those don't warrant hiding - I apologize for their content, but they don't meet the criteria of what I should remove. It's best just to ignore them for now. Cheers, m.o.p 05:13, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
- Okay, good to know, if I did nothing wrong, no permanent block will be enforced. The IP does not volunteer on WP as an admin and so the disproportionately out of line comments and threats of his should be ignored. --talk 05:19, 26 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Sounds good. We only hide extremely offensive revisions; milder ones stay in the edit history. Thanks again for bringing this to our attention! Cheers, m.o.p 05:31, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
Email
Jasper Deng (talk) 05:29, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
- Reading. talk) 06:00, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Bad Girls Club
- I've blocked Junebea for 2 days for disregarding warnings. m.o.p 20:30, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks for helping :) Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 21:06, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkback
- And again.Griswaldo (talk) 04:24, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
- And again ... but maybe the last. You can settle this question once and for all. See the talk page.Griswaldo (talk) 06:09, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'm sure I'm not alone in wanting to hear your replies to the last responses posed to you at that page. IMO, I don't know why you went down the road you did, but as far as I can tell you're blatantly misrepesenting facts about your own actions when people are brining concerns to you. You might think that since you closed the RfC the matter is settled, but it is not. You're actions have not made my life any more pleasant in the last few days vis-a-vis trying to deal with Anupam's disruption and I think you owe us all answers. So please revisit this thread and deal with the open questions. Thanks.Griswaldo (talk) 02:19, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
- I invite you to stop asking the same question again and again. This would be appreciated. Thanks, m.o.p 02:33, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Block question
- No, I just block obviously bad-faith accounts on sight. Advertising/spam accounts fall under that category. m.o.p 00:37, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Thanks
- Thank you. I've unlocked the article for whatever may come. If I'm needed again, feel free to let me know. Thanks for the kind words again, m.o.p 05:12, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
reminder
- We're still waiting to see if the user understands COI policy (per Ed's question). I'll prod the user and see if they'll answer. talk) 19:20, 30 September 2011 (UTC)]
Nextel logo deleted
- Mmm, good point. What's the link to the logo in question? m.o.p 01:33, 2 October 2011 (UTC)
Support of Sage City SymphonyYou deleted this page before I had a chance to go back in and add the stuff that you wanted to see, including the links within Wikipedia to important composers such as Lou Callabro (who started this orchestra and cites it in his Wikipedia page) and Susan Hurley whose work we premiered (SC is also mentioned in her Wikipedia entry). (Let alone links about the works we have performed.) And we have a web site at www.sagecitysymphony.org, have existed for over 35 yrs and are a significant cultural resource in the Bennington area such that we receive grants from local, statewide and national foundations.
I broke my wrist last weekend and am doing one-handed pecking so it'll take me a few days to get that loaded in. We are going out for a bit now, but I would appreciate your undeleting the page so that I don't have to re-invent the starting part when I go back in tomorrow to add links. Or delete it entirely so that I can start fresh - at this point either would work as long as I can start some serious work on it tomorrow. I am the webmaster by the way, so I do have access to content and more links.
Thank you, Celia Murray — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.228.127.119 (talk) 14:22, 1 October 2011 (UTC)
- It looks like fixed everything up. Best of luck, m.o.p 01:35, 2 October 2011 (UTC)]
Reply on Deterence's talk page
MA
After the beating you took you deserve a cold one--on me! Thanks for being fair and balanced – Lionel (talk) 03:55, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
- Hey, thanks! Glad to help out. :) m.o.p 03:56, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
Deletion of Mau5trap Recordings
--neocharles (talk) 07:33, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Existence does not equal notability - the subject has to be notable to get a Wikipedia page. m.o.p 12:05, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
Questoin re: AIV
- Addendum, actually, I read it very clearly in WP:VANDNOT: "Uploading or using material on Wikipedia in violation of Wikipedia's copyright policies is prohibited, but is not vandalism unless the user does so maliciously or fails to heed warnings." So if a person fails to heed warnings it is vandalism. My mistake here was that I only warned once. --Muhandes (talk) 12:29, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Eh, technically it is vandalism, but the user seems to be trying to improve the Wikipedia - that desire to help is misplaced in this case, as they seem to think that using copyrighted content is actually better. Weird. For most cases, yes, you should report copyvio to AIV - as long as they've been warned sufficiently. m.o.p 12:42, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- OK, he now did it again and the time stamp is after your last warning. Is it vandalism now? --Muhandes (talk) 12:32, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Yeah, if they're outright ignoring warnings. I've blocked for three days. m.o.p 12:40, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
Classmusic
- Oh, I know. But if somebody's lied to my face about using another account - and to other editors working on the article - I'm not about to let them go without a repercussion or two. I'd like Almost-instinct and Voceditnore to look over the article and fix up anything shifty. Also, I'd like Classmusic to respond to my warning, instead of blanking it and ignoring like they have to the above-named editors.
- So, in short, I know that COI doesn't bar editing, but it's enough of a concern that, given the user's recent behaviour, I'll stop them from doing anything until we've figured things out. This isn't too rouge-y, is it? I didn't hear that. Perhaps he is unaware of the sockpuppet investigation findings. Anyhow it seems that DeltaQuad has also blocked the Classmusic account. I left a note on his page about using the unblock template, but re-iterated that he needs to read the COI and Autobiography guidelines and stick to them scrupulously, if he gets unblocked. In the Opera and Classical Music WikiProjects, we get a lot of articles for performers, ensembles, etc. created by their agents and PR people, and often themselves. In my experience, the best I can hope for after one of these tussles is that they'll edit their article according to the guidelines in future. I have yet to find a single one who has ever contributed anything else to Wikipedia. Their only interest in the project is as a PR tool. Having said that, at least it results (after much red-pencilling from other editors) in one new article on a notable subject that we didn't have before and in a small way redresses the pop culture systemic bias here. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 13:40, 5 October 2011 (UTC)]
Danish election
- Never mind, it's been pulled by another admin. All the best, Jenks24 (talk) 11:03, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry about that! I was busy all day and didn't get your message until now. Thanks for letting me know, though! Cheers, m.o.p 19:51, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
3RRHey there! :)
Well WP:CRYSTAL has wined down, however, there's currently a
The Bad Girls Club (season 7). I have notified the two users [32], [33]. The evidence can be found here. They are having an edit-conflict on how the "Duration of cast" should be presented. Since there's no rules regarding anything like that, and it was made up about a year ago, I couldn't warned them to stop their e/c with anything except the 3RR rule. Maybe they need an admin to tell them to stop, so that's why I came to you :) Thanks, Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 01:17, 6 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Temporary page protection requested. Calabe1992 (talk) 01:29, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
Dr Myko San – Health from Mushrooms
- I'd be happy to help! However, I'm currently away from a computer (typing this on my phone), so I'll have to check in on the 11th of July. Does that sound okay? m.o.p 15:40, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
- wp:NODEADLINE :-) LeadSongDog come howl! 15:48, 7 July 2011 (UTC)]
From a former Wikipedian
-71.234.90.0 (talk) 04:50, 8 July 2011 (UTC)
- Hey, thanks so much! I'm not sure who you are, but I really appreciate the sentiment. Hope all is well! m.o.p 20:49, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
Deletion review for Thomas James Ball
DRV comment
DRV
Could you please overturn the deletion of these files per File:Signature of Amitabh Bachchan.svg and File:Signature of Zakir Hussain.svg:
- File:Signature of Vishwanathan Anand.svg
- File:Signature of Vijay Mallya.svg
- File:Signature of Venkaiah Naidu.svg
- File:Signature of Sudeep Bandhopadhyay.svg
- File:Signature of Sonia Gandhi.svg
- File:Signature of Somnath Chatterjee.svg
- File:Signature of Ratan Tata.svg
- File:Signature of Kumar Mangalam Birla.svg
- File:Signature of Rajeev Shukla.svg
- File:Signature of Raj Babbar.svg
- File:Signature of Rahul Gandhi.svg
- File:Signature of Priyanka Vadra.svg
- File:Signature of P. T. Usha.svg
- File:Signature of Narendra Modi.svg
- File:Signature of Nandan Nilekani.svg
- File:Signature of Manish Tewari.svg
- File:Signature of Leander Paes.svg
- File:Signature of Lata Mangeshkar.svg
- File:Signature of Kumar Mangalam Birla.svg
- File:Signature of Karia Munda.svg
- File:Signature of Kapil Sibal.svg
- File:Signature of Kamal Nath.svg
- File:Signature of K. Kamraj.svg
- File:Signature of Jaya Bachchan.svg
- File:Signature of Gautam Gambhir.svg
- File:Signature of Brinda Karat.svg
- File:Signature of Bharatsinh Solanki.svg
- File:Signature of Bhairon Singh Shekhawat.svg
- File:Signature of B. K. Birla.svg
- File:Signature of Azim Premji.svg
- File:Signature of Arun Jaitely.svg
- File:Signature of Aishwarya Rai Bachchan.svg
- File:Signature of Abhishek Manu Singhvi.svg
- File:Signature of Abhishek Bachchan.svg
- File:Signature of Sting.svg
- File:Signature of Br. L. D. Lobo.svg
- File:Signature of VJ Rannvijay Singh Singha.svg
Diligent07Appears to be less than new. See User talk:Raoulduke25 where he states that this is a deliberate series of edits.
- Can you please help defend our collective effort of including the obscene middle-finger incident in the Cheney Mason article? It should be maintained in the article for public interest, etc. Please see the Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard#Cheney Mason discussion page and include your thoughts in favor of having the content remain in the interests of the public, etc
[8], [9] and even imputation that an editor has a connection with the person [10]. He has been on since April, and started off as being experienced on WP IMHO. Kindly keep an eye out please. Especially for any sign of a real "collective effort"? Such as [11]? Cheers. Collect (talk) 11:36, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
A cookie for you!
Keep up the good work defending the "Wiki" against genre warriors. Thanks for the help! talk) 17:31, 13 July 2011 (UTC)]
Hello. You have a new message at Lionelt's talk page.
Semi protection
OK, this thing with the militant atheism page is impossibleThese guys are incredible... I could dig up diffs to show you how they revert and wikilawyer even the SMALLEST attempt to move the article closer to NPOV. But that would take a long time for you to read. How about I show you this instead:
These guys are utterly without scruples. Who in their right mind would remove the NPOV dispute tag when heated arguments have been raging for weeks and NO moves whatsoever have been made to fix the article? Oh right, that would be someone in their right mind who is running a propaganda platform.
Anyway... I wanted to ask your advice on what to do. These guys are impossible to work with. Most of the other editors have given up and refuse to put this page on their watchlist. So what to do then? Request formal mediation? Articles for deletion? Something else?
Me and the other editors would like to see the page replaced with a disambiguation page... since literally ALL the content has already been covered (better) in Criticism of atheism, State atheism and New Atheism.
Obhave (talk) 13:21, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
- Hello User:Master of Puppets. I noticed this conversation and thought I might add that an NPOV policy. Obhave (talk) 13:11, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
- One more thing, m.o.p... my opponents are currently twisting your words to make it look as if you were scolding user:Mann_jess all along. Obhave (talk) 14:42, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
]
User:Jasper Deng page protection
- No worries! m.o.p 19:35, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
Is there a procedure for brutal uncollaborated editing with a destructive intent?I noticed that you recently had problems with proposed brutal editing by Peter S Strempel. Although he has been more sensible on your project in the end (possibly because of your administrator status?) he has not been so with regard to the astrology project pages to which he made a similar 'razor-promise'. Could you please see this Afd request which is one of three he made for major 'history of astrology' articles within the last hour, with a promise on another important page that any comment which is not refrences within 7 days will be removed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Babylonian_astrology
Is there anything that can be done about this officially to stop him wreaking havoc with content whilst he knows that the small group of editors providing content on these pages are already stretched to the limit trying to keep up with what needs to be done? I don't understand what drives some people to want to edit WP like this, but I think it is entriely the result of his ego-stress that when he proposed an edit for a passage, no one favoured it. Hope you can help or advise Zac Δ talk 01:15, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks! assume good faith; I believe that Peter is simply trying to help improve Wikipedia. While his methods may be lacking in some areas, he has displayed a pretty decent grasp on the policies he's trying to enforce.
- However, I agree that he shouldn't be making any changes if they're not discussed with the community first. Do you mind pulling up a few diffs of where he went against consensus? I'll approach him with your concern then. Thanks, m.o.p 03:57, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
- Actually there hasn't been any significant content dispute with Peter. He proposed a change to a section edit which wasn't a very good proposition and a few editors commented but without rancur, and I added a new section post immediately afterwards to point out the proiposed change would contradict with how the definition was given correctly at a later point in the article, outlining how I understood WP policy expected the main astrology article to pull its own content together, along with its summarised content from its daughter pages. Peter never responded to this but other editors started working in that direction immediately. Then, without further discussion or comment, Peter came back four days later to announce an intention to take his 'word razor' to all unreferenced assertions on the main astrology page, its sub-pages, and the portal page itself, to ensure his perceived disagreement was not circumvented in pages he viewed as content forks (I'm still not sure what he means by that). My response to that can be seen - a perfectly reasonable request for him to do what he felt was most productive, but consider that citation-tagging was the way to go. I also placed comments on his talk-page, which you can read if you are interested. That he erupted into a frenzy of AfD requests last night says something, I think, about his unwillingness to discuss and engage in other views. Most of his posts appear as new section declarations that don't appear to have considered the responses other editors give him.
- I've summarised this in the ANI request Dougweller started. The deletion requests were a step too far IMO, and I'm concerned that Peter would spring to such drastic measures in reaction to what he perceives to be me not allowing him to do what he wants to do. I'll be away for a few days so I'm tying up my WP activity now. That underlines my concern that he intends to take such drastic action with only one week's notice of intent. Thanks for looking into this. It would be good if something could be proposed to stop huge problems before they occur. 10:35, 22 July 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zachariel (talk • contribs
)
- One last request. I have just noticed that a related complaint, which is quite serious but has been sidetracked (deliberatly IMO) by Peter's suggestions that I have prevented him from doing what he wants, has been collapsed as "going nowehere" by an unsympathetic editor.
- "Its ben here several days and no admin has even sniffed at a block or ban - clearly you're not going to get admin action. So this should got to WP:DR or WP:RFCU if you want to take it further. I've boldly collapsed this, though I won't be surprised if someone uncollapses it"
- If you can find the time could you at least take a look at that related problem, and consider uncollapsing it, because the issues are serious and have gone beyond the point where Dispute resolution are appropriate. I will be away and have nothing more to add, but the problems identified still remain. Zac Δ talk 10:58, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
What to do?
- I've started a threat at ANI. Those AfDs are purely pointy and if no one objects I'll close them. talk) 06:11, 22 July 2011 (UTC)]
- Replied there. m.o.p 08:20, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
Talk Page on Militant Atheism - Introduction Section
- The update is appreciated, thanks very much. I've been dealing with life for the past two weeks, but I'll be back to close that discussion tonight or tomorrow. Thanks again, m.o.p 22:03, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
- Just bringing this up again, given the current state of this section. I believe the discussion will be archived automatically if not closed. I'm sorry if I sound pushy with you having a lot on your plate of late. If you would prefer, I could alert User:Fastily instead. Turnsalso (talk) 16:55, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
ITN
- I knew that tab I closed had unfinished business on it... thanks. 2008 University of Central Arkansas shootings is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.
The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2008 University of Central Arkansas shootings(2nd nomination) until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on good quality evidence, and our policies and guidelines.
Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article.
talk 14:00, 1 September 2011 (UTC)]
Hey
- Done! Both your userpage and the transcluded page are protected. Cheers, « ₣M₣ » 04:09, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Restored. m.o.p 05:21, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
]
User talk:Joshua the Independent
- My mistake - my block script auto-filled the edit summary. The block was issued due to the user's newfound will to disrupt Wikipedia intentionally. Their previous contributions are welcome, but this behaviour necessitates administrative action. m.o.p 21:52, 13 September 2011 (UTC)
Say hi to your imaginary girlfriend for me
- Well, I do love getting hate mail. Thanks for the laugh! Cheers, m.o.p 05:17, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
...further to the above lovely note, I weighed in on Calabe's talk page - there appears to be more confusion here than at first glance. bou·le·var·dier (talk) 05:19, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
Sorry to drop by again, but Silentsizzlingsausage (talk · contribs) would appear to be a duck. bou·le·var·dier (talk) 05:31, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
- No, it's not an issue! Thanks for the note, blocked. Cheers, WP:SPI. Thanks again, m.o.p 06:13, 14 September 2011 (UTC)]
I have to admit ...
- See the above section. The link is apparently a very subtle spam link that Calabe is removing, and socks are springing up to revert him. Swarm u / t 10:20, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
Moderation
- Alright, I'll make my way back. Thanks for letting me know! m.o.p 05:18, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
User:12.139.96.228
- To be honest, this case is perplexing. Half of this user's edits are constructive (mostly sourced), the other half aren't sourced - and the user won't reply to anybody. I'm also too busy to go through every edit and confirm whether or not it's good. I forgot about this for a while - I'll think about it tonight and figure something out for tomorrow. Thanks for reminding me! m.o.p 05:18, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
Whoops
- Whoops! Must not have been looking when I ran my block script. Thanks for letting me know, I've reblocked them for a far shorter (technically, an infinitely shorter) time. Cheers, m.o.p 22:58, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
Ashleyleggat404
- You're fully right in that the blanking policy covers indefinite blocks. I've removed the user's talk page rights as a result. Thanks again! m.o.p 00:28, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkback
Moderation
- If you look into this please consider whether Anupam's actions on the talk page and the entry itself are violations of WP:OWN. He's been driving off those he disagrees with by bludgening them to death with argument and heavily policing the entry claiming that there is a consensus written in stone despite many dissenting voices. Others have taken to simply calling him "the article's owner." I have had enough of this behavior personally and left him a message about it on his talk page. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:52, 20 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Dear User:Master of Puppets, the above user has misrepresented the occurrences at the article. I started another Introduction discussion at the article's talk page but User:Griswaldo has chosen to edit war over a second NPOV tag, despite the fact that one already exists in the article. He has done so despite the fact that the Introduction is being discussed in a peaceful manner at the talk page, in violation of your injunction: "We've only got consensus on this proposed versions (and loose consensus at that) - please do not attempt to subvert said consensus by making undiscussed changes." I have posted a message on his talk page about this behaviour. Nevertheless, I also do not wish to argue with the user personally and would prefer if you could go back to moderating the discussion between the two parties at the talk page. Thanks for taking the time to read this message. With regards, AnupamTalk 20:58, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- His "injunction?" Adding a neutrality tag to a specific sentence which an editor disputes the neutrality of is hardly "subverting the consensus by making undiscussed changes." Please stop wikilawyering to get your way. There is a growing consensus against your position regarding this article in general as well, despite your aggressive policing of the entry and the talk page. See ]
- I just thought that I would mention that User:Griswaldo, after seeing this message, just now decided to comment in the discussion rather than edit war against consensus further. Thanks for taking the time to read this message. With regards, AnupamTalk 21:51, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- "Edit war against consensus further?" My comment there has nothing to do with your message here. I've made three total edits to this entry ever. One was a copy edit in June, another was reverting an IP vandal, and the third was the revert of your Ownership edit. Please do not insinuate that I'm a edit warrior on this page. It is disingenuous.Griswaldo (talk) 22:08, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Thank you all for approaching me with your concerns.
- Obviously, I do not support Anupam - this is because I'm remaining a neutral third party, and, therefore, can't take sides. However, Griswaldo: please keep in mind that I did ask for all discussion to take place on the talk page. Why not just add your complaints to the talk page? It would have been much easier to discuss.
- I do agree that adding a NPOV tag, while slightly redundant, isn't horrible, but your intent seems to have been to stir discussion on that particular section, discussion that would be much more appropriate on the talk page.
- As for your and Snalwibma's concerns of Anupam trying to 'own' the article, I'm curious as to what you two mean; what 'delusions'?
- Also, Griswaldo, I don't think Anupam meant to insinuate you are an edit warrior (though this is just my take) - rather, they wanted to add the note that you've weighed in on discussion. m.o.p 22:10, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- your intent seems to have been to stir discussion on that particular section - No that's incorrect. I didn't add this tag, I simply reverted Anupam's attempt to own the page when he removed it. I agreed with JimWae's addition of the tag and found Anupam's removal to be unwarranted and a display of ownership.Griswaldo (talk) 22:16, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Note that, for all intents and purposes, reverting somebody is adding whatever is included in your edit, regardless of who put it there first. You revert a removal, you're agreeing with the edition you're reverting to - simple.
- And, if you agreed with JimWae, then we go back to what I was saying earlier - say so on the talk page. Two of you agree? Great! That's closer to consensus. But it means nothing if you express your support by reverting removals.
- Again, as I've asked multiple times, please stop saying that Anupam is owning anything without giving me evidence of it first. m.o.p 22:22, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Dear User:Master of Puppets, thank you for your reply to all of us. The reason User:Snalwibma stated that I was attempting to "own" the article was because I reverted an undiscussed removal from the article, which not only myself, but two other users objected to. In fact, two anonymous IP Addresses also reverted User:Snalwibma. I was open to compromise on the issue and stated that I would accept User:Turnsalso's compromise on the issue. I kindly request you to look at that discussion yourself and get an honest reading of it. Also, the only reason I removed the second NPOV tag was because there was already one present, which I did not remove. I only reverted the addition of a second NPOV tag once and even explained myself on the talk page. When I went to the talk page, I found rude accusations and an anti-collaborative spirit, despite the fact that I have been nothing but polite. I hope this helps. With regards, AnupamTalk 22:25, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry - I know I should not rise to the bait, but I have to object to the comment "The reason User:Snalwibma stated that I was attempting to 'own' the article was because I reverted an undiscussed removal ..." How dare Anupam presume to know what is in my mind! The reason I describe Anupam's attitude to the article as one of ownership is because that is how s/he behaves - "policing" every edit, pronouncing on whether s/he "accepts" or "rejects" it, peremptorily reverting anything s/he does not like, without discussion, presuming to know others' motives, and judging them as fit/unfit to contribute to the article. This has been going on for weeks, if not months. It is impossible to discuss the content of the article, let alone improve the text, because everything is filtered through the approval/disapproval of the article's self-appointed guardian, Anupam. tendentious or disruptive when they bring up certain issues, even when they are clearly in the majority. That is not collaborative. I stopped editing the article heavily because of those issues. I don't have any delusions that my opinion is worth more than anyone else's here, but I would think that the large number of established, experienced editors who are all saying there's a problem, would indicate something. — Jess· Δ♥ 19:45, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
Please reconsider your full protection of Militant atheist
- In case you didn't notice, I asked that people think twice about pointing fingers at each other. If you'd like to start a sockpuppetry investigation, let me know, and we can take that avenue - however, don't accuse other editors of ownership without substance. If you think Anupam is trying to own things, give me something. Diffs, edits, anything. I'll check it out for you, but right now, baseless accusations are not what I'm looking for.
- Also, notice that I protected the article with your edit being the last one. How is that validating the very person you've been reverting?
- The protection will stay until consensus is reached. m.o.p 22:19, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Because protection is what he wants quite clearly. He's stalling conversation and shouting down people on the talk page, where, if you have a look, you'll see he's clearly in the minority. Because of your "injunction" as he calls it, he also claims that no matter how many people agree with a certain change it is illegitimate. I'll be happy to gather some diffs, but my first message to you above was to please look into the situation carefully before acting on it. Did you do that and come to the conclusion that I'm wrong or did you not head that request? Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:29, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Yes, I did heed your request. I don't see any ownership behaviour from Anupam, though, being involved in multiple disputes, I didn't have the time to read every last word on the page, so you're free to provide evidence. However, from what I can see, Anupam's last proposal was supported by the majority - not to count (and I don't mean to imply that I decide where consensus lies by looking at pure numbers), but from looking at pure supports versus opposes, eight people (nine including Anupam) support while four oppose. How does that make Anupam's views a minority? m.o.p 22:37, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- It depends on what view you are talking about. The current RFC on the introduction is something that most people don't even want to engage because most people think this very entry should be split up and integrated into other entries. I reluctantly engaged the RfC just now myself. The last time the more serious question about the entry was asked, several of the new commentators were not around, and there was "no consensus" found because the opposing side was chalk full of SPAs and editors with a view that is outright hostile to atheism (which is a legitimate view to hold, but it is a minority view). Let me find you some diffs.Griswaldo (talk) 22:43, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- User:Griswaldo, that is exactly the issue: you do not want to collaborate with other users on the talk page, which is why you were reluctant to participate in the current RfC. Moreover, there were several SPA's on the side of the opposition as well, including WP:NPOV. In addition, the split was again recently discussed and the specific case to do so was refuted by several editors. As such, there was no consensus for it. I hope this helps. With regards, AnupamTalk 22:52, 20 September 2011 (UTC)]
- No. You are trying to write an article that violates WP:SYNTH because it conflates New Atheism with oppressive communist regimes and their histories of violence. That's hardly NPOV. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:59, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
Hi m.o.p., as someone who occasionally looks at that page (and then washes my hands), I just want to compliment you as having done the right thing in full protecting. By way of unsolicited advice to the involved editors, the best thing they could do is to allow The Wrong Version to sit there a good long time, and devote their energy to other things. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:54, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
]
Yes, please reconsider your full protection of
WP:RS—deserve protection against misinformed reverts. Thanks Geremia (talk) 16:12, 22 September 2011 (UTC)]
Diffs of
- I'm not really sure where the ownership is here; nowhere in our policies is it stated that a user can't promote their RFC on the subject talk page. If it's ongoing and they'd like to move it to the forefront, what's wrong with that? More so, some of your summaries seem inaccurate - in that last diff, you state that Anupam is removing images, yet I only see Anupam adding an image (the peace dove that's at the top of the page). Also, you use repeating examples. m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Well clearly the last diff was wrong. Thanks for the vote of confidence. There are no repeat examples nor inaccurate summaries, just a mistaken copy paste of the second to last diff to the last position as well. I have fixed it. Cheers.
- Using "consensus claims from one RfC to reject changes made to article content
- Same as above. Using the "consensus" bludgeon to get his way. Please note that clearly we ought to edit by consensus, but this consensus is highly disputed, and IMO not there in the first place. The real problem is the way in which Anupam decides to use it like a trump card to remove changes he doesn't like. Ask yourself if all changes post "consensus" have been removed or just the ones Anupam decided he wanted removed.
Master of Puppets do you need more diffs or is this enough?Griswaldo (talk) 23:31, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Well I need more diffs because your "evidence" so far looks like a desperate attempt to incriminate an editor who has been very successful in persuading his colleagues to adopt his proposals. Anupam has presented his proposals, argued the merits and persuaded many editors. Anything you want to tell us about why you're having difficulty doing likewise? – Lionel (talk) 06:02, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- I don't see this is as conclusive evidence, either. And, it should be said - if people are editing against established consensus, then people are free to re-evaluate consensus, but edit-warring against it doesn't make much sense. m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- If not ownership then what is this - [28], [29], [30]? He removes two RfCs started by another editor, and revolving around the question that many of us actually find to be the fundamental question to answer regarding the entry. Then he edit wars to keep these RfCs off the page, claiming again to have some sort of authority stemming from your prior actions. If you aren't willing to do something here I'm going to another administrator and I'm going to ask for your initial "consensus," your strong arm administrating, and your lack of action here to be reviewed as well. Thanks.Griswaldo (talk) 17:08, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Anupam has already apologized for reverting those RfC additions, and we've moved past it. He also didn't claim to have administrative authority, but was waiting for my approval. We've cleared this up, it's not an issue. So no, I'm not going to take any action (as I've said here and on ANI). Now, if you'd like to threaten me and tell me that, since I'm not cooperating with your wills, you'll go to another administrator, that's fine - as I've said, you can seek outside opinions - but remember to keep a cool head, because borderline threats are not appreciated. m.o.p 21:49, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- It was not a threat, "borderline" or otherwise. You are conveniently ignoring a growing number of voices who are all saying the same thing - there is an ownership problem here. The deletion issue has not been "cleared up" as far as I'm concerned. Whenever it is mentioned Anupam insists that he did not "unilaterally" delete the RfCs from the page, which is a blatant distortion, since that is exactly what he did. He continues to act as a policeman at the page, and yes he does continue to cite your authority. Did you bother to read the many diffs I posted above in the second two sections? I will quote three random examples from those I provided for you if you want.
- When he first deleted the two RfCs he wrote: "rv - see discussion with reviewing administrator; approval needed to start another RfC while one is already occurring."
- When he deleted a fact tag that JimWae put into the lede: "rv excessive tagging per talk; tag is already extant in header; do not subvert previous consensus but gain consensus for potential additions per administrative notice"
- When he rejected another recent change to the entry: "accepted edits by User:Jkhwiki; rv removal of longstanding referenced content - see discussion on talk page and gain consensus for action per administrative injunction"
- In talk page comments and in edit summaries he consistently does the same thing. He refers to your authority, either directly or indirectly through your "notice" or your "injunction" as he likes to call it. I never said the claimed to have administrative authority, I said that he's using your authority, by way of your comments, such as the closure of the AfD to bully people. Do you deny that he citing your comments, because if you do then I must have fabricated those quotes. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:32, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
If you say "If you don't do A, then I'm going to go and do B", that's a threat. Anyway, that's not the issue - we've already covered all the issues with the RfC reverting, and Anupam won't do it again. Why keep raising hell over it?
We've already covered everything you bring up. And no, I'm not denying anything. I'm just saying this, and it's very simple: I don't think there has been any blatant ownership here. That's my judgment. If you disagree, again, feel free to raise this with another administrator or on ANI. m.o.p 23:12, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Regarding the new RFC, I still think there has not passed yet too much time since the last discussion about splitting the article. As far as I knew, repeating these sorts of debates (like splitting, deleting, renaming) before a larger amount of time has passed (like 6 months) is usually discouraged. And as others have also argued earlier, even if having multiple RFCs is possible, it's not very useful, and the new RFC seems to discourage further discussion about improving the lead introduction. So preventing multiple RFCs (and also a RFC about an issue debated not too long ago) does not look to me like evidence of bad faith intentions. Cody7777777 (talk) 21:37, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Cody, would you mind linking me to the previous RfC on splitting? m.o.p 21:49, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- The previous attempt to split the article can be found here. Cody7777777 (talk) 21:55, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Response
Yes, it does. Thanks, m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Dear User:Master of Puppets, I just noticed that User:Binksternet started another RfC while a current one is occurring. Is this appropriate? I reverted the addition motioning for one until your response is confirmed. If it is acceptable, then I apologize and will revert my edit. I look forward to your response. With regards, AnupamTalk 15:14, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'll form my reply on ANI. m.o.p 17:12, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- When you do please take into account my comment just above, regarding Anupam's edit warring to remove talk page comments (namely these RfCs) posted by others on the talk page. If you still don't think this is WP:OWN then clearly other administrators are needed here.Griswaldo (talk) 17:15, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Dear User:Griswaldo, how is going to a neutral mediator to address the issue owning the article? I acknowledge that the article is in dispute and as a result, I am asking an administrator for advice in this matter, NOT handling things on my own, as you have done by edit warring. Your WP:OWN allegations have not only been dismissed by this administrator, but by several other users, including, User:Lionelt, User:Cody7777777 and User:NYyankees51. Thanks, AnupamTalk 17:27, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- In reply to Griswaldo: reverting the RfCs was a mistake, but we've cleared that up now. As Anupam has stated at ANI, the intent was not to discourage discussion. If you think my judgment is compromised, you're welcome to seek another administrator's input. m.o.p 21:04, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- And as further evidence of WP:OWN, see this. Anupam adds a comment to everything that anyone else says, as if he/she is the owner of the article and everyone else is a subordinate contributor. This particular instance is pretty benign (although it clutters up the talk page with an unnecessary comment that merely says "I agree"), but I do think that Anupam at least needs to learn how to avoid giving the appearance of thinking he/she owns the article, and to desist from chipping in and saying the same thing over and over again, which almost makes meaningful discussion impossible! SNALWIBMA ( talk - contribs ) 17:31, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- While the input is appreciated, as I've said before, making allegations of ownership without hard evidence isn't going to get us anywhere. Anupam is not stopping others from discussing changes or forming consensus, and that's all that matters - refactoring the talk page or commenting on an issue is not against policy, and I'm not going to tell someone to stop editing because it "looks" like they're doing something wrong. As said above, you're welcome to request another administrator's insight if you wish. m.o.p 21:04, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
COIHi
you've helped me out before, with a conflict of interest problem, so having much more experience than me on wikipedia, I thought I would be bold enough to ask again for help.
Similar problem to last, User_talk:Hobbycraft is editing the HOBBYCRAFT article and making changes that aren't citably right. I think the user name suggest and history suggests a conflict of interest case.
Can you please, speak to them addressing this issue.
Thank you very much for your help.
Markcoulter50 (talk) 22:27, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
- I've blocked that user for username violations. Thanks a lot for letting me know! Keep up the great work, m.o.p 23:00, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkbackcausa sui (talk) 18:47, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Hello. You have a new message at causa sui's talk page. causa sui (talk) 20:54, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Problematic editing on militant atheism
- I hope it's not considered defamatory to repeat the final line: "I merely present the diffs above, and let others draw their own conclusions. Is this a duck? Does it quack? You decide.". Unfortunately, the concerned community no longer has that opportunity. What did you decide on their behalf? Does this duck quack, or not? bobrayner (talk) 15:42, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- It's not your wording, it's the very idea of it. Going to what's allegorically a public place and shouting, "Hey, everybody, this man is a criminal!" is one step below blatantly forming a lynch mob. As I've said, I have no problem with your wording or evidence, just your location of choice. Wikipedia is not, unfortunately, a democracy - letting others draw their conclusions and voice their opinions is not how a sockpuppet investigation works.
- So yes, please don't go restoring any of that section. We're not discussing editors, we're discussing the content they produce. Anything else has a sub-board to deal with it (like WP:SPI).
- Hopefully that clears things up! I'll be happy to answer any more questions should you have them. Cheers, m.o.p 15:48, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Hello User:Bobrayner, I noticed the section you created on the militant atheism talk page. If you do feel the way you do about User:Turnsalso and the anonymous IP Addresses, you can take this up with WP:SPI. Thanks, AnupamTalk 15:52, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
Are you kidding my MoP? Above your write: Going to what's allegorically a public place and shouting, "Hey, everybody, this man is a criminal!" is one step below blatantly forming a lynch mob. AND We're not discussing editors, we're discussing the content they produce. Yet you call this edit by Lionelt "good faith," at WQA? MoP, I would not ask you to agree with me or to like me, but can I please ask you not to insult me with these double standards.Griswaldo (talk) 16:18, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
]
- Griswaldo, I mean no offense when I say this, but I'd appreciate it if you stayed out of discussions which didn't involve you. Also, please don't put words in my mouth. Thanks, m.o.p 16:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I have not put words in your mouth. You said that you would assume good faith about Lionel. If you "assume good faith" it means you assume his edits were in "good faith." If you did not intend that meaning I suggest you reconsider what you wrote. Also, if you want me to "stay out of discussion which don't involve me" then I suggest your first order of business should be to do the same thing yourself. You decided to post at WQA, when there was no mention of you or anything you've done in that thread. Once again, I expect people not to practice double standards. So as long as you cannot show me that you will treat me as you ask to be treated yourself, I will not oblige you. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:21, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Please stop bickering. I'm not quite sure what you're trying to accomplish here. I've already explained what I meant when I said assuming good faith, but I'll explain again: I assumed that Lionelt was not hounding or deliberately haranguing you. I did not say, at any point, that his edit content was good faith, and I've told him not to edit like that again. So please stop accusing me of saying things I haven't said.
- Also, I posted in WQA because, as a mediator in this case and as an administrator, it's my duty to weigh in on administrative noticeboards, especially when the case is an ongoing discussion I've been participating in for three months. It is not your duty to weigh in on discussions on my talk page that don't concern you. I hope the distinction is clear here. m.o.p 20:33, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I think you are confused about something. Content is never good faith. "Editing in good faith" and "good faith edits" refers to the intent of the editor always. It has nothing to do with content. My assumption that you also felt the edits were appropriate comes from the fact that you did not say they weren't appropriate and clearly feel that his intentions were good. If you'd like to set the record straight on that issue you still can. I've asked you twice now to discuss the actual edits that are the focal point of the thread. Also, I moved the thread to ANI, per the suggestion of the editor who marked it "resolved."Griswaldo (talk) 20:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- See Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#User:Lionelt_--_following_my_past_edits_to_drum_up_support_against_me. FYI, I copy pasted the entire discussion because both you and Collect were critical of my initial post and I thought it was the right thing to do to preserve that criticism in the record of the conversation. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:43, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- In reply to your first paragraph: I'm going to give up now, as it seems you're misunderstanding most of what I type, but you're the one who stated that the content was not good faith (as you said, not appropriate), and I agreed - I referred to his intent in replying to you, and said that I assumed good faith in his motives, not his replies. I can't really say that in a clearer way, so my apologies if it's hard to understand. Also, as I've already said, I've left a message for Lionelt about his edits, so clearly I do not feel they're appropriate. m.o.p 20:57, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I, too, find these double standards vexing.
- Which diff is defamatory?
- I had hitherto thought that people on the article talkpage might like to be aware of potential problems with votestacking on the article talkpage (and 3rr evasion, of course). Would it be permitted to add a link to that list of diffs when it's in a different place, or would you consider that defamatory too? bobrayner (talk) 16:23, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- As I said, the information is not defamatory, but the way it's presented is - we have specific processes available to pursue should one feel there are sockpuppets about. However, calling someone out with the intent of informing the community is overstepping your authority and damaging to the accused's character. Also, there's no way a community discussion about whether or not one editor is a sockpuppet can end in anything other than a sockpuppet investigation anyway.
- So, in closing, please don't bring issues like this to the talk page. If you're concerned about votestacking, take it to the appropriate venue - if your concerns are validated, we'll take measures against said puppets. Cheers, m.o.p 16:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I am very disappointed that it's no longer permissible to raise problems with article-editing on the article talkpage. Previous concerns about sockpuppetry were simply ignored; the difference this time is that it's backed by lots of diffs.
- I'm fairly confident that the people concerned have sufficient technical nous to make checkuser draw a blank. And, let's be entirely honest, within minutes of me creating an SPI, an admin of the right persuasion will be getting an email suggesting that an SPI needs their attention. And SPI does not see offsite coordination by a facebook group &c. Finally, any null result at SPI will be used at the article in much the same way as previous administrative decisions have been. So, I do not believe that an SPI will improve either the article, or the encyclopædia as a whole. bobrayner (talk) 17:08, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- If you don't think the pre-existing methods set in place for situations like this are sufficient, you can always raise that concern at the village pump or suggest a policy revision - however, SPI is the venue for these requests, and the only venue. The talk page can not substitute. m.o.p 17:10, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
76.228.226.122Thank you for blocking the anonymous user, who is being counterproductive and rude. (although I think the block should have been one week, but I guess ok at least)
Can you also please try to hide the edit summaries of these edits if possible?
This and
this
Thanks and regards, talk 05:04, 26 September 2011 (UTC)]
- I'll extend the block if this behaviour continues after the block period is over.
- As for the edit summaries, those don't warrant hiding - I apologize for their content, but they don't meet the criteria of what I should remove. It's best just to ignore them for now. Cheers, m.o.p 05:13, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
- Okay, good to know, if I did nothing wrong, no permanent block will be enforced. The IP does not volunteer on WP as an admin and so the disproportionately out of line comments and threats of his should be ignored. --talk 05:19, 26 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Sounds good. We only hide extremely offensive revisions; milder ones stay in the edit history. Thanks again for bringing this to our attention! Cheers, m.o.p 05:31, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
Email
Jasper Deng (talk) 05:29, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
- Reading. talk) 06:00, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Bad Girls Club
- I've blocked Junebea for 2 days for disregarding warnings. m.o.p 20:30, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks for helping :) Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 21:06, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkback
- And again.Griswaldo (talk) 04:24, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
- And again ... but maybe the last. You can settle this question once and for all. See the talk page.Griswaldo (talk) 06:09, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'm sure I'm not alone in wanting to hear your replies to the last responses posed to you at that page. IMO, I don't know why you went down the road you did, but as far as I can tell you're blatantly misrepesenting facts about your own actions when people are brining concerns to you. You might think that since you closed the RfC the matter is settled, but it is not. You're actions have not made my life any more pleasant in the last few days vis-a-vis trying to deal with Anupam's disruption and I think you owe us all answers. So please revisit this thread and deal with the open questions. Thanks.Griswaldo (talk) 02:19, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
- I invite you to stop asking the same question again and again. This would be appreciated. Thanks, m.o.p 02:33, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Block question
- No, I just block obviously bad-faith accounts on sight. Advertising/spam accounts fall under that category. m.o.p 00:37, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Thanks
- Thank you. I've unlocked the article for whatever may come. If I'm needed again, feel free to let me know. Thanks for the kind words again, m.o.p 05:12, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
reminder
- We're still waiting to see if the user understands COI policy (per Ed's question). I'll prod the user and see if they'll answer. talk) 19:20, 30 September 2011 (UTC)]
Nextel logo deleted
- Mmm, good point. What's the link to the logo in question? m.o.p 01:33, 2 October 2011 (UTC)
Support of Sage City SymphonyYou deleted this page before I had a chance to go back in and add the stuff that you wanted to see, including the links within Wikipedia to important composers such as Lou Callabro (who started this orchestra and cites it in his Wikipedia page) and Susan Hurley whose work we premiered (SC is also mentioned in her Wikipedia entry). (Let alone links about the works we have performed.) And we have a web site at www.sagecitysymphony.org, have existed for over 35 yrs and are a significant cultural resource in the Bennington area such that we receive grants from local, statewide and national foundations.
I broke my wrist last weekend and am doing one-handed pecking so it'll take me a few days to get that loaded in. We are going out for a bit now, but I would appreciate your undeleting the page so that I don't have to re-invent the starting part when I go back in tomorrow to add links. Or delete it entirely so that I can start fresh - at this point either would work as long as I can start some serious work on it tomorrow. I am the webmaster by the way, so I do have access to content and more links.
Thank you, Celia Murray — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.228.127.119 (talk) 14:22, 1 October 2011 (UTC)
- It looks like fixed everything up. Best of luck, m.o.p 01:35, 2 October 2011 (UTC)]
Reply on Deterence's talk page
MA
After the beating you took you deserve a cold one--on me! Thanks for being fair and balanced – Lionel (talk) 03:55, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
- Hey, thanks! Glad to help out. :) m.o.p 03:56, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
Deletion of Mau5trap Recordings
--neocharles (talk) 07:33, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Existence does not equal notability - the subject has to be notable to get a Wikipedia page. m.o.p 12:05, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
Questoin re: AIV
- Addendum, actually, I read it very clearly in WP:VANDNOT: "Uploading or using material on Wikipedia in violation of Wikipedia's copyright policies is prohibited, but is not vandalism unless the user does so maliciously or fails to heed warnings." So if a person fails to heed warnings it is vandalism. My mistake here was that I only warned once. --Muhandes (talk) 12:29, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Eh, technically it is vandalism, but the user seems to be trying to improve the Wikipedia - that desire to help is misplaced in this case, as they seem to think that using copyrighted content is actually better. Weird. For most cases, yes, you should report copyvio to AIV - as long as they've been warned sufficiently. m.o.p 12:42, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- OK, he now did it again and the time stamp is after your last warning. Is it vandalism now? --Muhandes (talk) 12:32, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Yeah, if they're outright ignoring warnings. I've blocked for three days. m.o.p 12:40, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
Classmusic
- Oh, I know. But if somebody's lied to my face about using another account - and to other editors working on the article - I'm not about to let them go without a repercussion or two. I'd like Almost-instinct and Voceditnore to look over the article and fix up anything shifty. Also, I'd like Classmusic to respond to my warning, instead of blanking it and ignoring like they have to the above-named editors.
- So, in short, I know that COI doesn't bar editing, but it's enough of a concern that, given the user's recent behaviour, I'll stop them from doing anything until we've figured things out. This isn't too rouge-y, is it? I didn't hear that. Perhaps he is unaware of the sockpuppet investigation findings. Anyhow it seems that DeltaQuad has also blocked the Classmusic account. I left a note on his page about using the unblock template, but re-iterated that he needs to read the COI and Autobiography guidelines and stick to them scrupulously, if he gets unblocked. In the Opera and Classical Music WikiProjects, we get a lot of articles for performers, ensembles, etc. created by their agents and PR people, and often themselves. In my experience, the best I can hope for after one of these tussles is that they'll edit their article according to the guidelines in future. I have yet to find a single one who has ever contributed anything else to Wikipedia. Their only interest in the project is as a PR tool. Having said that, at least it results (after much red-pencilling from other editors) in one new article on a notable subject that we didn't have before and in a small way redresses the pop culture systemic bias here. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 13:40, 5 October 2011 (UTC)]
Danish election
- Never mind, it's been pulled by another admin. All the best, Jenks24 (talk) 11:03, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry about that! I was busy all day and didn't get your message until now. Thanks for letting me know, though! Cheers, m.o.p 19:51, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
3RRHey there! :)
Well WP:CRYSTAL has wined down, however, there's currently a
The Bad Girls Club (season 7). I have notified the two users [32], [33]. The evidence can be found here. They are having an edit-conflict on how the "Duration of cast" should be presented. Since there's no rules regarding anything like that, and it was made up about a year ago, I couldn't warned them to stop their e/c with anything except the 3RR rule. Maybe they need an admin to tell them to stop, so that's why I came to you :) Thanks, Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 01:17, 6 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Temporary page protection requested. Calabe1992 (talk) 01:29, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
- wp:NODEADLINE :-) LeadSongDog come howl! 15:48, 7 July 2011 (UTC)]
From a former Wikipedian
-71.234.90.0 (talk) 04:50, 8 July 2011 (UTC)
Deletion review for Thomas James Ball
DRV comment
DRV
Could you please overturn the deletion of these files per File:Signature of Amitabh Bachchan.svg and File:Signature of Zakir Hussain.svg:
- File:Signature of Vishwanathan Anand.svg
- File:Signature of Vijay Mallya.svg
- File:Signature of Venkaiah Naidu.svg
- File:Signature of Sudeep Bandhopadhyay.svg
- File:Signature of Sonia Gandhi.svg
- File:Signature of Somnath Chatterjee.svg
- File:Signature of Ratan Tata.svg
- File:Signature of Kumar Mangalam Birla.svg
- File:Signature of Rajeev Shukla.svg
- File:Signature of Raj Babbar.svg
- File:Signature of Rahul Gandhi.svg
- File:Signature of Priyanka Vadra.svg
- File:Signature of P. T. Usha.svg
- File:Signature of Narendra Modi.svg
- File:Signature of Nandan Nilekani.svg
- File:Signature of Manish Tewari.svg
- File:Signature of Leander Paes.svg
- File:Signature of Lata Mangeshkar.svg
- File:Signature of Kumar Mangalam Birla.svg
- File:Signature of Karia Munda.svg
- File:Signature of Kapil Sibal.svg
- File:Signature of Kamal Nath.svg
- File:Signature of K. Kamraj.svg
- File:Signature of Jaya Bachchan.svg
- File:Signature of Gautam Gambhir.svg
- File:Signature of Brinda Karat.svg
- File:Signature of Bharatsinh Solanki.svg
- File:Signature of Bhairon Singh Shekhawat.svg
- File:Signature of B. K. Birla.svg
- File:Signature of Azim Premji.svg
- File:Signature of Arun Jaitely.svg
- File:Signature of Aishwarya Rai Bachchan.svg
- File:Signature of Abhishek Manu Singhvi.svg
- File:Signature of Abhishek Bachchan.svg
- File:Signature of Sting.svg
- File:Signature of Br. L. D. Lobo.svg
- File:Signature of VJ Rannvijay Singh Singha.svg
Diligent07Appears to be less than new. See User talk:Raoulduke25 where he states that this is a deliberate series of edits.
- Can you please help defend our collective effort of including the obscene middle-finger incident in the Cheney Mason article? It should be maintained in the article for public interest, etc. Please see the Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard#Cheney Mason discussion page and include your thoughts in favor of having the content remain in the interests of the public, etc
[8], [9] and even imputation that an editor has a connection with the person [10]. He has been on since April, and started off as being experienced on WP IMHO. Kindly keep an eye out please. Especially for any sign of a real "collective effort"? Such as [11]? Cheers. Collect (talk) 11:36, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
A cookie for you!
Keep up the good work defending the "Wiki" against genre warriors. Thanks for the help! talk) 17:31, 13 July 2011 (UTC)]
Hello. You have a new message at Lionelt's talk page.
Semi protection
OK, this thing with the militant atheism page is impossibleThese guys are incredible... I could dig up diffs to show you how they revert and wikilawyer even the SMALLEST attempt to move the article closer to NPOV. But that would take a long time for you to read. How about I show you this instead:
These guys are utterly without scruples. Who in their right mind would remove the NPOV dispute tag when heated arguments have been raging for weeks and NO moves whatsoever have been made to fix the article? Oh right, that would be someone in their right mind who is running a propaganda platform.
Anyway... I wanted to ask your advice on what to do. These guys are impossible to work with. Most of the other editors have given up and refuse to put this page on their watchlist. So what to do then? Request formal mediation? Articles for deletion? Something else?
Me and the other editors would like to see the page replaced with a disambiguation page... since literally ALL the content has already been covered (better) in Criticism of atheism, State atheism and New Atheism.
Obhave (talk) 13:21, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
- Hello User:Master of Puppets. I noticed this conversation and thought I might add that an NPOV policy. Obhave (talk) 13:11, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
- One more thing, m.o.p... my opponents are currently twisting your words to make it look as if you were scolding user:Mann_jess all along. Obhave (talk) 14:42, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
]
User:Jasper Deng page protection
- No worries! m.o.p 19:35, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
Is there a procedure for brutal uncollaborated editing with a destructive intent?I noticed that you recently had problems with proposed brutal editing by Peter S Strempel. Although he has been more sensible on your project in the end (possibly because of your administrator status?) he has not been so with regard to the astrology project pages to which he made a similar 'razor-promise'. Could you please see this Afd request which is one of three he made for major 'history of astrology' articles within the last hour, with a promise on another important page that any comment which is not refrences within 7 days will be removed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Babylonian_astrology
Is there anything that can be done about this officially to stop him wreaking havoc with content whilst he knows that the small group of editors providing content on these pages are already stretched to the limit trying to keep up with what needs to be done? I don't understand what drives some people to want to edit WP like this, but I think it is entriely the result of his ego-stress that when he proposed an edit for a passage, no one favoured it. Hope you can help or advise Zac Δ talk 01:15, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks! assume good faith; I believe that Peter is simply trying to help improve Wikipedia. While his methods may be lacking in some areas, he has displayed a pretty decent grasp on the policies he's trying to enforce.
- However, I agree that he shouldn't be making any changes if they're not discussed with the community first. Do you mind pulling up a few diffs of where he went against consensus? I'll approach him with your concern then. Thanks, m.o.p 03:57, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
- Actually there hasn't been any significant content dispute with Peter. He proposed a change to a section edit which wasn't a very good proposition and a few editors commented but without rancur, and I added a new section post immediately afterwards to point out the proiposed change would contradict with how the definition was given correctly at a later point in the article, outlining how I understood WP policy expected the main astrology article to pull its own content together, along with its summarised content from its daughter pages. Peter never responded to this but other editors started working in that direction immediately. Then, without further discussion or comment, Peter came back four days later to announce an intention to take his 'word razor' to all unreferenced assertions on the main astrology page, its sub-pages, and the portal page itself, to ensure his perceived disagreement was not circumvented in pages he viewed as content forks (I'm still not sure what he means by that). My response to that can be seen - a perfectly reasonable request for him to do what he felt was most productive, but consider that citation-tagging was the way to go. I also placed comments on his talk-page, which you can read if you are interested. That he erupted into a frenzy of AfD requests last night says something, I think, about his unwillingness to discuss and engage in other views. Most of his posts appear as new section declarations that don't appear to have considered the responses other editors give him.
- I've summarised this in the ANI request Dougweller started. The deletion requests were a step too far IMO, and I'm concerned that Peter would spring to such drastic measures in reaction to what he perceives to be me not allowing him to do what he wants to do. I'll be away for a few days so I'm tying up my WP activity now. That underlines my concern that he intends to take such drastic action with only one week's notice of intent. Thanks for looking into this. It would be good if something could be proposed to stop huge problems before they occur. 10:35, 22 July 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zachariel (talk • contribs
)
- One last request. I have just noticed that a related complaint, which is quite serious but has been sidetracked (deliberatly IMO) by Peter's suggestions that I have prevented him from doing what he wants, has been collapsed as "going nowehere" by an unsympathetic editor.
- "Its ben here several days and no admin has even sniffed at a block or ban - clearly you're not going to get admin action. So this should got to WP:DR or WP:RFCU if you want to take it further. I've boldly collapsed this, though I won't be surprised if someone uncollapses it"
- If you can find the time could you at least take a look at that related problem, and consider uncollapsing it, because the issues are serious and have gone beyond the point where Dispute resolution are appropriate. I will be away and have nothing more to add, but the problems identified still remain. Zac Δ talk 10:58, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
What to do?
- I've started a threat at ANI. Those AfDs are purely pointy and if no one objects I'll close them. talk) 06:11, 22 July 2011 (UTC)]
- Replied there. m.o.p 08:20, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
Talk Page on Militant Atheism - Introduction Section
- The update is appreciated, thanks very much. I've been dealing with life for the past two weeks, but I'll be back to close that discussion tonight or tomorrow. Thanks again, m.o.p 22:03, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
- Just bringing this up again, given the current state of this section. I believe the discussion will be archived automatically if not closed. I'm sorry if I sound pushy with you having a lot on your plate of late. If you would prefer, I could alert User:Fastily instead. Turnsalso (talk) 16:55, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
ITN
- I knew that tab I closed had unfinished business on it... thanks. 2008 University of Central Arkansas shootings is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.
The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2008 University of Central Arkansas shootings(2nd nomination) until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on good quality evidence, and our policies and guidelines.
Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article.
talk 14:00, 1 September 2011 (UTC)]
Hey
- Done! Both your userpage and the transcluded page are protected. Cheers, « ₣M₣ » 04:09, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Restored. m.o.p 05:21, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
]
User talk:Joshua the Independent
- My mistake - my block script auto-filled the edit summary. The block was issued due to the user's newfound will to disrupt Wikipedia intentionally. Their previous contributions are welcome, but this behaviour necessitates administrative action. m.o.p 21:52, 13 September 2011 (UTC)
Say hi to your imaginary girlfriend for me
- Well, I do love getting hate mail. Thanks for the laugh! Cheers, m.o.p 05:17, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
...further to the above lovely note, I weighed in on Calabe's talk page - there appears to be more confusion here than at first glance. bou·le·var·dier (talk) 05:19, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
Sorry to drop by again, but Silentsizzlingsausage (talk · contribs) would appear to be a duck. bou·le·var·dier (talk) 05:31, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
- No, it's not an issue! Thanks for the note, blocked. Cheers, WP:SPI. Thanks again, m.o.p 06:13, 14 September 2011 (UTC)]
I have to admit ...
- See the above section. The link is apparently a very subtle spam link that Calabe is removing, and socks are springing up to revert him. Swarm u / t 10:20, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
Moderation
- Alright, I'll make my way back. Thanks for letting me know! m.o.p 05:18, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
User:12.139.96.228
- To be honest, this case is perplexing. Half of this user's edits are constructive (mostly sourced), the other half aren't sourced - and the user won't reply to anybody. I'm also too busy to go through every edit and confirm whether or not it's good. I forgot about this for a while - I'll think about it tonight and figure something out for tomorrow. Thanks for reminding me! m.o.p 05:18, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
Whoops
- Whoops! Must not have been looking when I ran my block script. Thanks for letting me know, I've reblocked them for a far shorter (technically, an infinitely shorter) time. Cheers, m.o.p 22:58, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
Ashleyleggat404
- You're fully right in that the blanking policy covers indefinite blocks. I've removed the user's talk page rights as a result. Thanks again! m.o.p 00:28, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkback
Moderation
- If you look into this please consider whether Anupam's actions on the talk page and the entry itself are violations of WP:OWN. He's been driving off those he disagrees with by bludgening them to death with argument and heavily policing the entry claiming that there is a consensus written in stone despite many dissenting voices. Others have taken to simply calling him "the article's owner." I have had enough of this behavior personally and left him a message about it on his talk page. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:52, 20 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Dear User:Master of Puppets, the above user has misrepresented the occurrences at the article. I started another Introduction discussion at the article's talk page but User:Griswaldo has chosen to edit war over a second NPOV tag, despite the fact that one already exists in the article. He has done so despite the fact that the Introduction is being discussed in a peaceful manner at the talk page, in violation of your injunction: "We've only got consensus on this proposed versions (and loose consensus at that) - please do not attempt to subvert said consensus by making undiscussed changes." I have posted a message on his talk page about this behaviour. Nevertheless, I also do not wish to argue with the user personally and would prefer if you could go back to moderating the discussion between the two parties at the talk page. Thanks for taking the time to read this message. With regards, AnupamTalk 20:58, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- His "injunction?" Adding a neutrality tag to a specific sentence which an editor disputes the neutrality of is hardly "subverting the consensus by making undiscussed changes." Please stop wikilawyering to get your way. There is a growing consensus against your position regarding this article in general as well, despite your aggressive policing of the entry and the talk page. See ]
- I just thought that I would mention that User:Griswaldo, after seeing this message, just now decided to comment in the discussion rather than edit war against consensus further. Thanks for taking the time to read this message. With regards, AnupamTalk 21:51, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- "Edit war against consensus further?" My comment there has nothing to do with your message here. I've made three total edits to this entry ever. One was a copy edit in June, another was reverting an IP vandal, and the third was the revert of your Ownership edit. Please do not insinuate that I'm a edit warrior on this page. It is disingenuous.Griswaldo (talk) 22:08, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Thank you all for approaching me with your concerns.
- Obviously, I do not support Anupam - this is because I'm remaining a neutral third party, and, therefore, can't take sides. However, Griswaldo: please keep in mind that I did ask for all discussion to take place on the talk page. Why not just add your complaints to the talk page? It would have been much easier to discuss.
- I do agree that adding a NPOV tag, while slightly redundant, isn't horrible, but your intent seems to have been to stir discussion on that particular section, discussion that would be much more appropriate on the talk page.
- As for your and Snalwibma's concerns of Anupam trying to 'own' the article, I'm curious as to what you two mean; what 'delusions'?
- Also, Griswaldo, I don't think Anupam meant to insinuate you are an edit warrior (though this is just my take) - rather, they wanted to add the note that you've weighed in on discussion. m.o.p 22:10, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- your intent seems to have been to stir discussion on that particular section - No that's incorrect. I didn't add this tag, I simply reverted Anupam's attempt to own the page when he removed it. I agreed with JimWae's addition of the tag and found Anupam's removal to be unwarranted and a display of ownership.Griswaldo (talk) 22:16, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Note that, for all intents and purposes, reverting somebody is adding whatever is included in your edit, regardless of who put it there first. You revert a removal, you're agreeing with the edition you're reverting to - simple.
- And, if you agreed with JimWae, then we go back to what I was saying earlier - say so on the talk page. Two of you agree? Great! That's closer to consensus. But it means nothing if you express your support by reverting removals.
- Again, as I've asked multiple times, please stop saying that Anupam is owning anything without giving me evidence of it first. m.o.p 22:22, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Dear User:Master of Puppets, thank you for your reply to all of us. The reason User:Snalwibma stated that I was attempting to "own" the article was because I reverted an undiscussed removal from the article, which not only myself, but two other users objected to. In fact, two anonymous IP Addresses also reverted User:Snalwibma. I was open to compromise on the issue and stated that I would accept User:Turnsalso's compromise on the issue. I kindly request you to look at that discussion yourself and get an honest reading of it. Also, the only reason I removed the second NPOV tag was because there was already one present, which I did not remove. I only reverted the addition of a second NPOV tag once and even explained myself on the talk page. When I went to the talk page, I found rude accusations and an anti-collaborative spirit, despite the fact that I have been nothing but polite. I hope this helps. With regards, AnupamTalk 22:25, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry - I know I should not rise to the bait, but I have to object to the comment "The reason User:Snalwibma stated that I was attempting to 'own' the article was because I reverted an undiscussed removal ..." How dare Anupam presume to know what is in my mind! The reason I describe Anupam's attitude to the article as one of ownership is because that is how s/he behaves - "policing" every edit, pronouncing on whether s/he "accepts" or "rejects" it, peremptorily reverting anything s/he does not like, without discussion, presuming to know others' motives, and judging them as fit/unfit to contribute to the article. This has been going on for weeks, if not months. It is impossible to discuss the content of the article, let alone improve the text, because everything is filtered through the approval/disapproval of the article's self-appointed guardian, Anupam. tendentious or disruptive when they bring up certain issues, even when they are clearly in the majority. That is not collaborative. I stopped editing the article heavily because of those issues. I don't have any delusions that my opinion is worth more than anyone else's here, but I would think that the large number of established, experienced editors who are all saying there's a problem, would indicate something. — Jess· Δ♥ 19:45, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
Please reconsider your full protection of Militant atheist
- In case you didn't notice, I asked that people think twice about pointing fingers at each other. If you'd like to start a sockpuppetry investigation, let me know, and we can take that avenue - however, don't accuse other editors of ownership without substance. If you think Anupam is trying to own things, give me something. Diffs, edits, anything. I'll check it out for you, but right now, baseless accusations are not what I'm looking for.
- Also, notice that I protected the article with your edit being the last one. How is that validating the very person you've been reverting?
- The protection will stay until consensus is reached. m.o.p 22:19, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Because protection is what he wants quite clearly. He's stalling conversation and shouting down people on the talk page, where, if you have a look, you'll see he's clearly in the minority. Because of your "injunction" as he calls it, he also claims that no matter how many people agree with a certain change it is illegitimate. I'll be happy to gather some diffs, but my first message to you above was to please look into the situation carefully before acting on it. Did you do that and come to the conclusion that I'm wrong or did you not head that request? Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:29, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Yes, I did heed your request. I don't see any ownership behaviour from Anupam, though, being involved in multiple disputes, I didn't have the time to read every last word on the page, so you're free to provide evidence. However, from what I can see, Anupam's last proposal was supported by the majority - not to count (and I don't mean to imply that I decide where consensus lies by looking at pure numbers), but from looking at pure supports versus opposes, eight people (nine including Anupam) support while four oppose. How does that make Anupam's views a minority? m.o.p 22:37, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- It depends on what view you are talking about. The current RFC on the introduction is something that most people don't even want to engage because most people think this very entry should be split up and integrated into other entries. I reluctantly engaged the RfC just now myself. The last time the more serious question about the entry was asked, several of the new commentators were not around, and there was "no consensus" found because the opposing side was chalk full of SPAs and editors with a view that is outright hostile to atheism (which is a legitimate view to hold, but it is a minority view). Let me find you some diffs.Griswaldo (talk) 22:43, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- User:Griswaldo, that is exactly the issue: you do not want to collaborate with other users on the talk page, which is why you were reluctant to participate in the current RfC. Moreover, there were several SPA's on the side of the opposition as well, including WP:NPOV. In addition, the split was again recently discussed and the specific case to do so was refuted by several editors. As such, there was no consensus for it. I hope this helps. With regards, AnupamTalk 22:52, 20 September 2011 (UTC)]
- No. You are trying to write an article that violates WP:SYNTH because it conflates New Atheism with oppressive communist regimes and their histories of violence. That's hardly NPOV. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:59, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
Hi m.o.p., as someone who occasionally looks at that page (and then washes my hands), I just want to compliment you as having done the right thing in full protecting. By way of unsolicited advice to the involved editors, the best thing they could do is to allow The Wrong Version to sit there a good long time, and devote their energy to other things. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:54, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
]
Yes, please reconsider your full protection of
WP:RS—deserve protection against misinformed reverts. Thanks Geremia (talk) 16:12, 22 September 2011 (UTC)]
Diffs of
- I'm not really sure where the ownership is here; nowhere in our policies is it stated that a user can't promote their RFC on the subject talk page. If it's ongoing and they'd like to move it to the forefront, what's wrong with that? More so, some of your summaries seem inaccurate - in that last diff, you state that Anupam is removing images, yet I only see Anupam adding an image (the peace dove that's at the top of the page). Also, you use repeating examples. m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Well clearly the last diff was wrong. Thanks for the vote of confidence. There are no repeat examples nor inaccurate summaries, just a mistaken copy paste of the second to last diff to the last position as well. I have fixed it. Cheers.
- Using "consensus claims from one RfC to reject changes made to article content
- Same as above. Using the "consensus" bludgeon to get his way. Please note that clearly we ought to edit by consensus, but this consensus is highly disputed, and IMO not there in the first place. The real problem is the way in which Anupam decides to use it like a trump card to remove changes he doesn't like. Ask yourself if all changes post "consensus" have been removed or just the ones Anupam decided he wanted removed.
Master of Puppets do you need more diffs or is this enough?Griswaldo (talk) 23:31, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Well I need more diffs because your "evidence" so far looks like a desperate attempt to incriminate an editor who has been very successful in persuading his colleagues to adopt his proposals. Anupam has presented his proposals, argued the merits and persuaded many editors. Anything you want to tell us about why you're having difficulty doing likewise? – Lionel (talk) 06:02, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- I don't see this is as conclusive evidence, either. And, it should be said - if people are editing against established consensus, then people are free to re-evaluate consensus, but edit-warring against it doesn't make much sense. m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- If not ownership then what is this - [28], [29], [30]? He removes two RfCs started by another editor, and revolving around the question that many of us actually find to be the fundamental question to answer regarding the entry. Then he edit wars to keep these RfCs off the page, claiming again to have some sort of authority stemming from your prior actions. If you aren't willing to do something here I'm going to another administrator and I'm going to ask for your initial "consensus," your strong arm administrating, and your lack of action here to be reviewed as well. Thanks.Griswaldo (talk) 17:08, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Anupam has already apologized for reverting those RfC additions, and we've moved past it. He also didn't claim to have administrative authority, but was waiting for my approval. We've cleared this up, it's not an issue. So no, I'm not going to take any action (as I've said here and on ANI). Now, if you'd like to threaten me and tell me that, since I'm not cooperating with your wills, you'll go to another administrator, that's fine - as I've said, you can seek outside opinions - but remember to keep a cool head, because borderline threats are not appreciated. m.o.p 21:49, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- It was not a threat, "borderline" or otherwise. You are conveniently ignoring a growing number of voices who are all saying the same thing - there is an ownership problem here. The deletion issue has not been "cleared up" as far as I'm concerned. Whenever it is mentioned Anupam insists that he did not "unilaterally" delete the RfCs from the page, which is a blatant distortion, since that is exactly what he did. He continues to act as a policeman at the page, and yes he does continue to cite your authority. Did you bother to read the many diffs I posted above in the second two sections? I will quote three random examples from those I provided for you if you want.
- When he first deleted the two RfCs he wrote: "rv - see discussion with reviewing administrator; approval needed to start another RfC while one is already occurring."
- When he deleted a fact tag that JimWae put into the lede: "rv excessive tagging per talk; tag is already extant in header; do not subvert previous consensus but gain consensus for potential additions per administrative notice"
- When he rejected another recent change to the entry: "accepted edits by User:Jkhwiki; rv removal of longstanding referenced content - see discussion on talk page and gain consensus for action per administrative injunction"
- In talk page comments and in edit summaries he consistently does the same thing. He refers to your authority, either directly or indirectly through your "notice" or your "injunction" as he likes to call it. I never said the claimed to have administrative authority, I said that he's using your authority, by way of your comments, such as the closure of the AfD to bully people. Do you deny that he citing your comments, because if you do then I must have fabricated those quotes. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:32, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
If you say "If you don't do A, then I'm going to go and do B", that's a threat. Anyway, that's not the issue - we've already covered all the issues with the RfC reverting, and Anupam won't do it again. Why keep raising hell over it?
We've already covered everything you bring up. And no, I'm not denying anything. I'm just saying this, and it's very simple: I don't think there has been any blatant ownership here. That's my judgment. If you disagree, again, feel free to raise this with another administrator or on ANI. m.o.p 23:12, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Regarding the new RFC, I still think there has not passed yet too much time since the last discussion about splitting the article. As far as I knew, repeating these sorts of debates (like splitting, deleting, renaming) before a larger amount of time has passed (like 6 months) is usually discouraged. And as others have also argued earlier, even if having multiple RFCs is possible, it's not very useful, and the new RFC seems to discourage further discussion about improving the lead introduction. So preventing multiple RFCs (and also a RFC about an issue debated not too long ago) does not look to me like evidence of bad faith intentions. Cody7777777 (talk) 21:37, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Cody, would you mind linking me to the previous RfC on splitting? m.o.p 21:49, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- The previous attempt to split the article can be found here. Cody7777777 (talk) 21:55, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Response
Yes, it does. Thanks, m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Dear User:Master of Puppets, I just noticed that User:Binksternet started another RfC while a current one is occurring. Is this appropriate? I reverted the addition motioning for one until your response is confirmed. If it is acceptable, then I apologize and will revert my edit. I look forward to your response. With regards, AnupamTalk 15:14, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'll form my reply on ANI. m.o.p 17:12, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- When you do please take into account my comment just above, regarding Anupam's edit warring to remove talk page comments (namely these RfCs) posted by others on the talk page. If you still don't think this is WP:OWN then clearly other administrators are needed here.Griswaldo (talk) 17:15, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Dear User:Griswaldo, how is going to a neutral mediator to address the issue owning the article? I acknowledge that the article is in dispute and as a result, I am asking an administrator for advice in this matter, NOT handling things on my own, as you have done by edit warring. Your WP:OWN allegations have not only been dismissed by this administrator, but by several other users, including, User:Lionelt, User:Cody7777777 and User:NYyankees51. Thanks, AnupamTalk 17:27, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- In reply to Griswaldo: reverting the RfCs was a mistake, but we've cleared that up now. As Anupam has stated at ANI, the intent was not to discourage discussion. If you think my judgment is compromised, you're welcome to seek another administrator's input. m.o.p 21:04, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- And as further evidence of WP:OWN, see this. Anupam adds a comment to everything that anyone else says, as if he/she is the owner of the article and everyone else is a subordinate contributor. This particular instance is pretty benign (although it clutters up the talk page with an unnecessary comment that merely says "I agree"), but I do think that Anupam at least needs to learn how to avoid giving the appearance of thinking he/she owns the article, and to desist from chipping in and saying the same thing over and over again, which almost makes meaningful discussion impossible! SNALWIBMA ( talk - contribs ) 17:31, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- While the input is appreciated, as I've said before, making allegations of ownership without hard evidence isn't going to get us anywhere. Anupam is not stopping others from discussing changes or forming consensus, and that's all that matters - refactoring the talk page or commenting on an issue is not against policy, and I'm not going to tell someone to stop editing because it "looks" like they're doing something wrong. As said above, you're welcome to request another administrator's insight if you wish. m.o.p 21:04, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
COIHi
you've helped me out before, with a conflict of interest problem, so having much more experience than me on wikipedia, I thought I would be bold enough to ask again for help.
Similar problem to last, User_talk:Hobbycraft is editing the HOBBYCRAFT article and making changes that aren't citably right. I think the user name suggest and history suggests a conflict of interest case.
Can you please, speak to them addressing this issue.
Thank you very much for your help.
Markcoulter50 (talk) 22:27, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
- I've blocked that user for username violations. Thanks a lot for letting me know! Keep up the great work, m.o.p 23:00, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkbackcausa sui (talk) 18:47, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Hello. You have a new message at causa sui's talk page. causa sui (talk) 20:54, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Problematic editing on militant atheism
- I hope it's not considered defamatory to repeat the final line: "I merely present the diffs above, and let others draw their own conclusions. Is this a duck? Does it quack? You decide.". Unfortunately, the concerned community no longer has that opportunity. What did you decide on their behalf? Does this duck quack, or not? bobrayner (talk) 15:42, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- It's not your wording, it's the very idea of it. Going to what's allegorically a public place and shouting, "Hey, everybody, this man is a criminal!" is one step below blatantly forming a lynch mob. As I've said, I have no problem with your wording or evidence, just your location of choice. Wikipedia is not, unfortunately, a democracy - letting others draw their conclusions and voice their opinions is not how a sockpuppet investigation works.
- So yes, please don't go restoring any of that section. We're not discussing editors, we're discussing the content they produce. Anything else has a sub-board to deal with it (like WP:SPI).
- Hopefully that clears things up! I'll be happy to answer any more questions should you have them. Cheers, m.o.p 15:48, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Hello User:Bobrayner, I noticed the section you created on the militant atheism talk page. If you do feel the way you do about User:Turnsalso and the anonymous IP Addresses, you can take this up with WP:SPI. Thanks, AnupamTalk 15:52, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
Are you kidding my MoP? Above your write: Going to what's allegorically a public place and shouting, "Hey, everybody, this man is a criminal!" is one step below blatantly forming a lynch mob. AND We're not discussing editors, we're discussing the content they produce. Yet you call this edit by Lionelt "good faith," at WQA? MoP, I would not ask you to agree with me or to like me, but can I please ask you not to insult me with these double standards.Griswaldo (talk) 16:18, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
]
- Griswaldo, I mean no offense when I say this, but I'd appreciate it if you stayed out of discussions which didn't involve you. Also, please don't put words in my mouth. Thanks, m.o.p 16:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I have not put words in your mouth. You said that you would assume good faith about Lionel. If you "assume good faith" it means you assume his edits were in "good faith." If you did not intend that meaning I suggest you reconsider what you wrote. Also, if you want me to "stay out of discussion which don't involve me" then I suggest your first order of business should be to do the same thing yourself. You decided to post at WQA, when there was no mention of you or anything you've done in that thread. Once again, I expect people not to practice double standards. So as long as you cannot show me that you will treat me as you ask to be treated yourself, I will not oblige you. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:21, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Please stop bickering. I'm not quite sure what you're trying to accomplish here. I've already explained what I meant when I said assuming good faith, but I'll explain again: I assumed that Lionelt was not hounding or deliberately haranguing you. I did not say, at any point, that his edit content was good faith, and I've told him not to edit like that again. So please stop accusing me of saying things I haven't said.
- Also, I posted in WQA because, as a mediator in this case and as an administrator, it's my duty to weigh in on administrative noticeboards, especially when the case is an ongoing discussion I've been participating in for three months. It is not your duty to weigh in on discussions on my talk page that don't concern you. I hope the distinction is clear here. m.o.p 20:33, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I think you are confused about something. Content is never good faith. "Editing in good faith" and "good faith edits" refers to the intent of the editor always. It has nothing to do with content. My assumption that you also felt the edits were appropriate comes from the fact that you did not say they weren't appropriate and clearly feel that his intentions were good. If you'd like to set the record straight on that issue you still can. I've asked you twice now to discuss the actual edits that are the focal point of the thread. Also, I moved the thread to ANI, per the suggestion of the editor who marked it "resolved."Griswaldo (talk) 20:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- See Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#User:Lionelt_--_following_my_past_edits_to_drum_up_support_against_me. FYI, I copy pasted the entire discussion because both you and Collect were critical of my initial post and I thought it was the right thing to do to preserve that criticism in the record of the conversation. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:43, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- In reply to your first paragraph: I'm going to give up now, as it seems you're misunderstanding most of what I type, but you're the one who stated that the content was not good faith (as you said, not appropriate), and I agreed - I referred to his intent in replying to you, and said that I assumed good faith in his motives, not his replies. I can't really say that in a clearer way, so my apologies if it's hard to understand. Also, as I've already said, I've left a message for Lionelt about his edits, so clearly I do not feel they're appropriate. m.o.p 20:57, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I, too, find these double standards vexing.
- Which diff is defamatory?
- I had hitherto thought that people on the article talkpage might like to be aware of potential problems with votestacking on the article talkpage (and 3rr evasion, of course). Would it be permitted to add a link to that list of diffs when it's in a different place, or would you consider that defamatory too? bobrayner (talk) 16:23, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- As I said, the information is not defamatory, but the way it's presented is - we have specific processes available to pursue should one feel there are sockpuppets about. However, calling someone out with the intent of informing the community is overstepping your authority and damaging to the accused's character. Also, there's no way a community discussion about whether or not one editor is a sockpuppet can end in anything other than a sockpuppet investigation anyway.
- So, in closing, please don't bring issues like this to the talk page. If you're concerned about votestacking, take it to the appropriate venue - if your concerns are validated, we'll take measures against said puppets. Cheers, m.o.p 16:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I am very disappointed that it's no longer permissible to raise problems with article-editing on the article talkpage. Previous concerns about sockpuppetry were simply ignored; the difference this time is that it's backed by lots of diffs.
- I'm fairly confident that the people concerned have sufficient technical nous to make checkuser draw a blank. And, let's be entirely honest, within minutes of me creating an SPI, an admin of the right persuasion will be getting an email suggesting that an SPI needs their attention. And SPI does not see offsite coordination by a facebook group &c. Finally, any null result at SPI will be used at the article in much the same way as previous administrative decisions have been. So, I do not believe that an SPI will improve either the article, or the encyclopædia as a whole. bobrayner (talk) 17:08, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- If you don't think the pre-existing methods set in place for situations like this are sufficient, you can always raise that concern at the village pump or suggest a policy revision - however, SPI is the venue for these requests, and the only venue. The talk page can not substitute. m.o.p 17:10, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
76.228.226.122Thank you for blocking the anonymous user, who is being counterproductive and rude. (although I think the block should have been one week, but I guess ok at least)
Can you also please try to hide the edit summaries of these edits if possible?
This and
this
Thanks and regards, talk 05:04, 26 September 2011 (UTC)]
- I'll extend the block if this behaviour continues after the block period is over.
- As for the edit summaries, those don't warrant hiding - I apologize for their content, but they don't meet the criteria of what I should remove. It's best just to ignore them for now. Cheers, m.o.p 05:13, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
- Okay, good to know, if I did nothing wrong, no permanent block will be enforced. The IP does not volunteer on WP as an admin and so the disproportionately out of line comments and threats of his should be ignored. --talk 05:19, 26 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Sounds good. We only hide extremely offensive revisions; milder ones stay in the edit history. Thanks again for bringing this to our attention! Cheers, m.o.p 05:31, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
Email
Jasper Deng (talk) 05:29, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
- Reading. talk) 06:00, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Bad Girls Club
- I've blocked Junebea for 2 days for disregarding warnings. m.o.p 20:30, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks for helping :) Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 21:06, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkback
- And again.Griswaldo (talk) 04:24, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
- And again ... but maybe the last. You can settle this question once and for all. See the talk page.Griswaldo (talk) 06:09, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'm sure I'm not alone in wanting to hear your replies to the last responses posed to you at that page. IMO, I don't know why you went down the road you did, but as far as I can tell you're blatantly misrepesenting facts about your own actions when people are brining concerns to you. You might think that since you closed the RfC the matter is settled, but it is not. You're actions have not made my life any more pleasant in the last few days vis-a-vis trying to deal with Anupam's disruption and I think you owe us all answers. So please revisit this thread and deal with the open questions. Thanks.Griswaldo (talk) 02:19, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
- I invite you to stop asking the same question again and again. This would be appreciated. Thanks, m.o.p 02:33, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Block question
- No, I just block obviously bad-faith accounts on sight. Advertising/spam accounts fall under that category. m.o.p 00:37, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Thanks
- Thank you. I've unlocked the article for whatever may come. If I'm needed again, feel free to let me know. Thanks for the kind words again, m.o.p 05:12, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
reminder
- We're still waiting to see if the user understands COI policy (per Ed's question). I'll prod the user and see if they'll answer. talk) 19:20, 30 September 2011 (UTC)]
Nextel logo deleted
- Mmm, good point. What's the link to the logo in question? m.o.p 01:33, 2 October 2011 (UTC)
Support of Sage City SymphonyYou deleted this page before I had a chance to go back in and add the stuff that you wanted to see, including the links within Wikipedia to important composers such as Lou Callabro (who started this orchestra and cites it in his Wikipedia page) and Susan Hurley whose work we premiered (SC is also mentioned in her Wikipedia entry). (Let alone links about the works we have performed.) And we have a web site at www.sagecitysymphony.org, have existed for over 35 yrs and are a significant cultural resource in the Bennington area such that we receive grants from local, statewide and national foundations.
I broke my wrist last weekend and am doing one-handed pecking so it'll take me a few days to get that loaded in. We are going out for a bit now, but I would appreciate your undeleting the page so that I don't have to re-invent the starting part when I go back in tomorrow to add links. Or delete it entirely so that I can start fresh - at this point either would work as long as I can start some serious work on it tomorrow. I am the webmaster by the way, so I do have access to content and more links.
Thank you, Celia Murray — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.228.127.119 (talk) 14:22, 1 October 2011 (UTC)
- It looks like fixed everything up. Best of luck, m.o.p 01:35, 2 October 2011 (UTC)]
Reply on Deterence's talk page
MA
After the beating you took you deserve a cold one--on me! Thanks for being fair and balanced – Lionel (talk) 03:55, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
- Hey, thanks! Glad to help out. :) m.o.p 03:56, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
Deletion of Mau5trap Recordings
--neocharles (talk) 07:33, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Existence does not equal notability - the subject has to be notable to get a Wikipedia page. m.o.p 12:05, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
Questoin re: AIV
- Addendum, actually, I read it very clearly in WP:VANDNOT: "Uploading or using material on Wikipedia in violation of Wikipedia's copyright policies is prohibited, but is not vandalism unless the user does so maliciously or fails to heed warnings." So if a person fails to heed warnings it is vandalism. My mistake here was that I only warned once. --Muhandes (talk) 12:29, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Eh, technically it is vandalism, but the user seems to be trying to improve the Wikipedia - that desire to help is misplaced in this case, as they seem to think that using copyrighted content is actually better. Weird. For most cases, yes, you should report copyvio to AIV - as long as they've been warned sufficiently. m.o.p 12:42, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- OK, he now did it again and the time stamp is after your last warning. Is it vandalism now? --Muhandes (talk) 12:32, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Yeah, if they're outright ignoring warnings. I've blocked for three days. m.o.p 12:40, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
Classmusic
- Oh, I know. But if somebody's lied to my face about using another account - and to other editors working on the article - I'm not about to let them go without a repercussion or two. I'd like Almost-instinct and Voceditnore to look over the article and fix up anything shifty. Also, I'd like Classmusic to respond to my warning, instead of blanking it and ignoring like they have to the above-named editors.
- So, in short, I know that COI doesn't bar editing, but it's enough of a concern that, given the user's recent behaviour, I'll stop them from doing anything until we've figured things out. This isn't too rouge-y, is it? I didn't hear that. Perhaps he is unaware of the sockpuppet investigation findings. Anyhow it seems that DeltaQuad has also blocked the Classmusic account. I left a note on his page about using the unblock template, but re-iterated that he needs to read the COI and Autobiography guidelines and stick to them scrupulously, if he gets unblocked. In the Opera and Classical Music WikiProjects, we get a lot of articles for performers, ensembles, etc. created by their agents and PR people, and often themselves. In my experience, the best I can hope for after one of these tussles is that they'll edit their article according to the guidelines in future. I have yet to find a single one who has ever contributed anything else to Wikipedia. Their only interest in the project is as a PR tool. Having said that, at least it results (after much red-pencilling from other editors) in one new article on a notable subject that we didn't have before and in a small way redresses the pop culture systemic bias here. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 13:40, 5 October 2011 (UTC)]
Danish election
- Never mind, it's been pulled by another admin. All the best, Jenks24 (talk) 11:03, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry about that! I was busy all day and didn't get your message until now. Thanks for letting me know, though! Cheers, m.o.p 19:51, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
3RRHey there! :)
Well WP:CRYSTAL has wined down, however, there's currently a
The Bad Girls Club (season 7). I have notified the two users [32], [33]. The evidence can be found here. They are having an edit-conflict on how the "Duration of cast" should be presented. Since there's no rules regarding anything like that, and it was made up about a year ago, I couldn't warned them to stop their e/c with anything except the 3RR rule. Maybe they need an admin to tell them to stop, so that's why I came to you :) Thanks, Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 01:17, 6 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Temporary page protection requested. Calabe1992 (talk) 01:29, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
DRV comment
DRV
Could you please overturn the deletion of these files per File:Signature of Amitabh Bachchan.svg and File:Signature of Zakir Hussain.svg:
- File:Signature of Vishwanathan Anand.svg
- File:Signature of Vijay Mallya.svg
- File:Signature of Venkaiah Naidu.svg
- File:Signature of Sudeep Bandhopadhyay.svg
- File:Signature of Sonia Gandhi.svg
- File:Signature of Somnath Chatterjee.svg
- File:Signature of Ratan Tata.svg
- File:Signature of Kumar Mangalam Birla.svg
- File:Signature of Rajeev Shukla.svg
- File:Signature of Raj Babbar.svg
- File:Signature of Rahul Gandhi.svg
- File:Signature of Priyanka Vadra.svg
- File:Signature of P. T. Usha.svg
- File:Signature of Narendra Modi.svg
- File:Signature of Nandan Nilekani.svg
- File:Signature of Manish Tewari.svg
- File:Signature of Leander Paes.svg
- File:Signature of Lata Mangeshkar.svg
- File:Signature of Kumar Mangalam Birla.svg
- File:Signature of Karia Munda.svg
- File:Signature of Kapil Sibal.svg
- File:Signature of Kamal Nath.svg
- File:Signature of K. Kamraj.svg
- File:Signature of Jaya Bachchan.svg
- File:Signature of Gautam Gambhir.svg
- File:Signature of Brinda Karat.svg
- File:Signature of Bharatsinh Solanki.svg
- File:Signature of Bhairon Singh Shekhawat.svg
- File:Signature of B. K. Birla.svg
- File:Signature of Azim Premji.svg
- File:Signature of Arun Jaitely.svg
- File:Signature of Aishwarya Rai Bachchan.svg
- File:Signature of Abhishek Manu Singhvi.svg
- File:Signature of Abhishek Bachchan.svg
- File:Signature of Sting.svg
- File:Signature of Br. L. D. Lobo.svg
- File:Signature of VJ Rannvijay Singh Singha.svg
Diligent07Appears to be less than new. See User talk:Raoulduke25 where he states that this is a deliberate series of edits.
- Can you please help defend our collective effort of including the obscene middle-finger incident in the Cheney Mason article? It should be maintained in the article for public interest, etc. Please see the Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard#Cheney Mason discussion page and include your thoughts in favor of having the content remain in the interests of the public, etc
[8], [9] and even imputation that an editor has a connection with the person [10]. He has been on since April, and started off as being experienced on WP IMHO. Kindly keep an eye out please. Especially for any sign of a real "collective effort"? Such as [11]? Cheers. Collect (talk) 11:36, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
A cookie for you!
Keep up the good work defending the "Wiki" against genre warriors. Thanks for the help! talk) 17:31, 13 July 2011 (UTC)]
Hello. You have a new message at Lionelt's talk page.
Semi protection
OK, this thing with the militant atheism page is impossibleThese guys are incredible... I could dig up diffs to show you how they revert and wikilawyer even the SMALLEST attempt to move the article closer to NPOV. But that would take a long time for you to read. How about I show you this instead:
These guys are utterly without scruples. Who in their right mind would remove the NPOV dispute tag when heated arguments have been raging for weeks and NO moves whatsoever have been made to fix the article? Oh right, that would be someone in their right mind who is running a propaganda platform.
Anyway... I wanted to ask your advice on what to do. These guys are impossible to work with. Most of the other editors have given up and refuse to put this page on their watchlist. So what to do then? Request formal mediation? Articles for deletion? Something else?
Me and the other editors would like to see the page replaced with a disambiguation page... since literally ALL the content has already been covered (better) in Criticism of atheism, State atheism and New Atheism.
Obhave (talk) 13:21, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
- Hello User:Master of Puppets. I noticed this conversation and thought I might add that an NPOV policy. Obhave (talk) 13:11, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
- One more thing, m.o.p... my opponents are currently twisting your words to make it look as if you were scolding user:Mann_jess all along. Obhave (talk) 14:42, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
]
User:Jasper Deng page protection
- No worries! m.o.p 19:35, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
Is there a procedure for brutal uncollaborated editing with a destructive intent?I noticed that you recently had problems with proposed brutal editing by Peter S Strempel. Although he has been more sensible on your project in the end (possibly because of your administrator status?) he has not been so with regard to the astrology project pages to which he made a similar 'razor-promise'. Could you please see this Afd request which is one of three he made for major 'history of astrology' articles within the last hour, with a promise on another important page that any comment which is not refrences within 7 days will be removed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Babylonian_astrology
Is there anything that can be done about this officially to stop him wreaking havoc with content whilst he knows that the small group of editors providing content on these pages are already stretched to the limit trying to keep up with what needs to be done? I don't understand what drives some people to want to edit WP like this, but I think it is entriely the result of his ego-stress that when he proposed an edit for a passage, no one favoured it. Hope you can help or advise Zac Δ talk 01:15, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks! assume good faith; I believe that Peter is simply trying to help improve Wikipedia. While his methods may be lacking in some areas, he has displayed a pretty decent grasp on the policies he's trying to enforce.
- However, I agree that he shouldn't be making any changes if they're not discussed with the community first. Do you mind pulling up a few diffs of where he went against consensus? I'll approach him with your concern then. Thanks, m.o.p 03:57, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
- Actually there hasn't been any significant content dispute with Peter. He proposed a change to a section edit which wasn't a very good proposition and a few editors commented but without rancur, and I added a new section post immediately afterwards to point out the proiposed change would contradict with how the definition was given correctly at a later point in the article, outlining how I understood WP policy expected the main astrology article to pull its own content together, along with its summarised content from its daughter pages. Peter never responded to this but other editors started working in that direction immediately. Then, without further discussion or comment, Peter came back four days later to announce an intention to take his 'word razor' to all unreferenced assertions on the main astrology page, its sub-pages, and the portal page itself, to ensure his perceived disagreement was not circumvented in pages he viewed as content forks (I'm still not sure what he means by that). My response to that can be seen - a perfectly reasonable request for him to do what he felt was most productive, but consider that citation-tagging was the way to go. I also placed comments on his talk-page, which you can read if you are interested. That he erupted into a frenzy of AfD requests last night says something, I think, about his unwillingness to discuss and engage in other views. Most of his posts appear as new section declarations that don't appear to have considered the responses other editors give him.
- I've summarised this in the ANI request Dougweller started. The deletion requests were a step too far IMO, and I'm concerned that Peter would spring to such drastic measures in reaction to what he perceives to be me not allowing him to do what he wants to do. I'll be away for a few days so I'm tying up my WP activity now. That underlines my concern that he intends to take such drastic action with only one week's notice of intent. Thanks for looking into this. It would be good if something could be proposed to stop huge problems before they occur. 10:35, 22 July 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zachariel (talk • contribs
)
- One last request. I have just noticed that a related complaint, which is quite serious but has been sidetracked (deliberatly IMO) by Peter's suggestions that I have prevented him from doing what he wants, has been collapsed as "going nowehere" by an unsympathetic editor.
- "Its ben here several days and no admin has even sniffed at a block or ban - clearly you're not going to get admin action. So this should got to WP:DR or WP:RFCU if you want to take it further. I've boldly collapsed this, though I won't be surprised if someone uncollapses it"
- If you can find the time could you at least take a look at that related problem, and consider uncollapsing it, because the issues are serious and have gone beyond the point where Dispute resolution are appropriate. I will be away and have nothing more to add, but the problems identified still remain. Zac Δ talk 10:58, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
What to do?
- I've started a threat at ANI. Those AfDs are purely pointy and if no one objects I'll close them. talk) 06:11, 22 July 2011 (UTC)]
- Replied there. m.o.p 08:20, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
Talk Page on Militant Atheism - Introduction Section
- The update is appreciated, thanks very much. I've been dealing with life for the past two weeks, but I'll be back to close that discussion tonight or tomorrow. Thanks again, m.o.p 22:03, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
- Just bringing this up again, given the current state of this section. I believe the discussion will be archived automatically if not closed. I'm sorry if I sound pushy with you having a lot on your plate of late. If you would prefer, I could alert User:Fastily instead. Turnsalso (talk) 16:55, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
ITN
- I knew that tab I closed had unfinished business on it... thanks. 2008 University of Central Arkansas shootings is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.
The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2008 University of Central Arkansas shootings(2nd nomination) until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on good quality evidence, and our policies and guidelines.
Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article.
talk 14:00, 1 September 2011 (UTC)]
Hey
- Done! Both your userpage and the transcluded page are protected. Cheers, « ₣M₣ » 04:09, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Restored. m.o.p 05:21, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
]
User talk:Joshua the Independent
- My mistake - my block script auto-filled the edit summary. The block was issued due to the user's newfound will to disrupt Wikipedia intentionally. Their previous contributions are welcome, but this behaviour necessitates administrative action. m.o.p 21:52, 13 September 2011 (UTC)
Say hi to your imaginary girlfriend for me
- Well, I do love getting hate mail. Thanks for the laugh! Cheers, m.o.p 05:17, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
...further to the above lovely note, I weighed in on Calabe's talk page - there appears to be more confusion here than at first glance. bou·le·var·dier (talk) 05:19, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
Sorry to drop by again, but Silentsizzlingsausage (talk · contribs) would appear to be a duck. bou·le·var·dier (talk) 05:31, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
- No, it's not an issue! Thanks for the note, blocked. Cheers, WP:SPI. Thanks again, m.o.p 06:13, 14 September 2011 (UTC)]
I have to admit ...
- See the above section. The link is apparently a very subtle spam link that Calabe is removing, and socks are springing up to revert him. Swarm u / t 10:20, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
Moderation
- Alright, I'll make my way back. Thanks for letting me know! m.o.p 05:18, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
User:12.139.96.228
- To be honest, this case is perplexing. Half of this user's edits are constructive (mostly sourced), the other half aren't sourced - and the user won't reply to anybody. I'm also too busy to go through every edit and confirm whether or not it's good. I forgot about this for a while - I'll think about it tonight and figure something out for tomorrow. Thanks for reminding me! m.o.p 05:18, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
Whoops
- Whoops! Must not have been looking when I ran my block script. Thanks for letting me know, I've reblocked them for a far shorter (technically, an infinitely shorter) time. Cheers, m.o.p 22:58, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
Ashleyleggat404
- You're fully right in that the blanking policy covers indefinite blocks. I've removed the user's talk page rights as a result. Thanks again! m.o.p 00:28, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkback
Moderation
- If you look into this please consider whether Anupam's actions on the talk page and the entry itself are violations of WP:OWN. He's been driving off those he disagrees with by bludgening them to death with argument and heavily policing the entry claiming that there is a consensus written in stone despite many dissenting voices. Others have taken to simply calling him "the article's owner." I have had enough of this behavior personally and left him a message about it on his talk page. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:52, 20 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Dear User:Master of Puppets, the above user has misrepresented the occurrences at the article. I started another Introduction discussion at the article's talk page but User:Griswaldo has chosen to edit war over a second NPOV tag, despite the fact that one already exists in the article. He has done so despite the fact that the Introduction is being discussed in a peaceful manner at the talk page, in violation of your injunction: "We've only got consensus on this proposed versions (and loose consensus at that) - please do not attempt to subvert said consensus by making undiscussed changes." I have posted a message on his talk page about this behaviour. Nevertheless, I also do not wish to argue with the user personally and would prefer if you could go back to moderating the discussion between the two parties at the talk page. Thanks for taking the time to read this message. With regards, AnupamTalk 20:58, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- His "injunction?" Adding a neutrality tag to a specific sentence which an editor disputes the neutrality of is hardly "subverting the consensus by making undiscussed changes." Please stop wikilawyering to get your way. There is a growing consensus against your position regarding this article in general as well, despite your aggressive policing of the entry and the talk page. See ]
- I just thought that I would mention that User:Griswaldo, after seeing this message, just now decided to comment in the discussion rather than edit war against consensus further. Thanks for taking the time to read this message. With regards, AnupamTalk 21:51, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- "Edit war against consensus further?" My comment there has nothing to do with your message here. I've made three total edits to this entry ever. One was a copy edit in June, another was reverting an IP vandal, and the third was the revert of your Ownership edit. Please do not insinuate that I'm a edit warrior on this page. It is disingenuous.Griswaldo (talk) 22:08, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Thank you all for approaching me with your concerns.
- Obviously, I do not support Anupam - this is because I'm remaining a neutral third party, and, therefore, can't take sides. However, Griswaldo: please keep in mind that I did ask for all discussion to take place on the talk page. Why not just add your complaints to the talk page? It would have been much easier to discuss.
- I do agree that adding a NPOV tag, while slightly redundant, isn't horrible, but your intent seems to have been to stir discussion on that particular section, discussion that would be much more appropriate on the talk page.
- As for your and Snalwibma's concerns of Anupam trying to 'own' the article, I'm curious as to what you two mean; what 'delusions'?
- Also, Griswaldo, I don't think Anupam meant to insinuate you are an edit warrior (though this is just my take) - rather, they wanted to add the note that you've weighed in on discussion. m.o.p 22:10, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- your intent seems to have been to stir discussion on that particular section - No that's incorrect. I didn't add this tag, I simply reverted Anupam's attempt to own the page when he removed it. I agreed with JimWae's addition of the tag and found Anupam's removal to be unwarranted and a display of ownership.Griswaldo (talk) 22:16, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Note that, for all intents and purposes, reverting somebody is adding whatever is included in your edit, regardless of who put it there first. You revert a removal, you're agreeing with the edition you're reverting to - simple.
- And, if you agreed with JimWae, then we go back to what I was saying earlier - say so on the talk page. Two of you agree? Great! That's closer to consensus. But it means nothing if you express your support by reverting removals.
- Again, as I've asked multiple times, please stop saying that Anupam is owning anything without giving me evidence of it first. m.o.p 22:22, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Dear User:Master of Puppets, thank you for your reply to all of us. The reason User:Snalwibma stated that I was attempting to "own" the article was because I reverted an undiscussed removal from the article, which not only myself, but two other users objected to. In fact, two anonymous IP Addresses also reverted User:Snalwibma. I was open to compromise on the issue and stated that I would accept User:Turnsalso's compromise on the issue. I kindly request you to look at that discussion yourself and get an honest reading of it. Also, the only reason I removed the second NPOV tag was because there was already one present, which I did not remove. I only reverted the addition of a second NPOV tag once and even explained myself on the talk page. When I went to the talk page, I found rude accusations and an anti-collaborative spirit, despite the fact that I have been nothing but polite. I hope this helps. With regards, AnupamTalk 22:25, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry - I know I should not rise to the bait, but I have to object to the comment "The reason User:Snalwibma stated that I was attempting to 'own' the article was because I reverted an undiscussed removal ..." How dare Anupam presume to know what is in my mind! The reason I describe Anupam's attitude to the article as one of ownership is because that is how s/he behaves - "policing" every edit, pronouncing on whether s/he "accepts" or "rejects" it, peremptorily reverting anything s/he does not like, without discussion, presuming to know others' motives, and judging them as fit/unfit to contribute to the article. This has been going on for weeks, if not months. It is impossible to discuss the content of the article, let alone improve the text, because everything is filtered through the approval/disapproval of the article's self-appointed guardian, Anupam. tendentious or disruptive when they bring up certain issues, even when they are clearly in the majority. That is not collaborative. I stopped editing the article heavily because of those issues. I don't have any delusions that my opinion is worth more than anyone else's here, but I would think that the large number of established, experienced editors who are all saying there's a problem, would indicate something. — Jess· Δ♥ 19:45, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
Please reconsider your full protection of Militant atheist
- In case you didn't notice, I asked that people think twice about pointing fingers at each other. If you'd like to start a sockpuppetry investigation, let me know, and we can take that avenue - however, don't accuse other editors of ownership without substance. If you think Anupam is trying to own things, give me something. Diffs, edits, anything. I'll check it out for you, but right now, baseless accusations are not what I'm looking for.
- Also, notice that I protected the article with your edit being the last one. How is that validating the very person you've been reverting?
- The protection will stay until consensus is reached. m.o.p 22:19, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Because protection is what he wants quite clearly. He's stalling conversation and shouting down people on the talk page, where, if you have a look, you'll see he's clearly in the minority. Because of your "injunction" as he calls it, he also claims that no matter how many people agree with a certain change it is illegitimate. I'll be happy to gather some diffs, but my first message to you above was to please look into the situation carefully before acting on it. Did you do that and come to the conclusion that I'm wrong or did you not head that request? Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:29, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Yes, I did heed your request. I don't see any ownership behaviour from Anupam, though, being involved in multiple disputes, I didn't have the time to read every last word on the page, so you're free to provide evidence. However, from what I can see, Anupam's last proposal was supported by the majority - not to count (and I don't mean to imply that I decide where consensus lies by looking at pure numbers), but from looking at pure supports versus opposes, eight people (nine including Anupam) support while four oppose. How does that make Anupam's views a minority? m.o.p 22:37, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- It depends on what view you are talking about. The current RFC on the introduction is something that most people don't even want to engage because most people think this very entry should be split up and integrated into other entries. I reluctantly engaged the RfC just now myself. The last time the more serious question about the entry was asked, several of the new commentators were not around, and there was "no consensus" found because the opposing side was chalk full of SPAs and editors with a view that is outright hostile to atheism (which is a legitimate view to hold, but it is a minority view). Let me find you some diffs.Griswaldo (talk) 22:43, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- User:Griswaldo, that is exactly the issue: you do not want to collaborate with other users on the talk page, which is why you were reluctant to participate in the current RfC. Moreover, there were several SPA's on the side of the opposition as well, including WP:NPOV. In addition, the split was again recently discussed and the specific case to do so was refuted by several editors. As such, there was no consensus for it. I hope this helps. With regards, AnupamTalk 22:52, 20 September 2011 (UTC)]
- No. You are trying to write an article that violates WP:SYNTH because it conflates New Atheism with oppressive communist regimes and their histories of violence. That's hardly NPOV. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:59, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
Hi m.o.p., as someone who occasionally looks at that page (and then washes my hands), I just want to compliment you as having done the right thing in full protecting. By way of unsolicited advice to the involved editors, the best thing they could do is to allow The Wrong Version to sit there a good long time, and devote their energy to other things. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:54, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
]
Yes, please reconsider your full protection of
WP:RS—deserve protection against misinformed reverts. Thanks Geremia (talk) 16:12, 22 September 2011 (UTC)]
Diffs of
- I'm not really sure where the ownership is here; nowhere in our policies is it stated that a user can't promote their RFC on the subject talk page. If it's ongoing and they'd like to move it to the forefront, what's wrong with that? More so, some of your summaries seem inaccurate - in that last diff, you state that Anupam is removing images, yet I only see Anupam adding an image (the peace dove that's at the top of the page). Also, you use repeating examples. m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Well clearly the last diff was wrong. Thanks for the vote of confidence. There are no repeat examples nor inaccurate summaries, just a mistaken copy paste of the second to last diff to the last position as well. I have fixed it. Cheers.
- Using "consensus claims from one RfC to reject changes made to article content
- Same as above. Using the "consensus" bludgeon to get his way. Please note that clearly we ought to edit by consensus, but this consensus is highly disputed, and IMO not there in the first place. The real problem is the way in which Anupam decides to use it like a trump card to remove changes he doesn't like. Ask yourself if all changes post "consensus" have been removed or just the ones Anupam decided he wanted removed.
Master of Puppets do you need more diffs or is this enough?Griswaldo (talk) 23:31, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Well I need more diffs because your "evidence" so far looks like a desperate attempt to incriminate an editor who has been very successful in persuading his colleagues to adopt his proposals. Anupam has presented his proposals, argued the merits and persuaded many editors. Anything you want to tell us about why you're having difficulty doing likewise? – Lionel (talk) 06:02, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- I don't see this is as conclusive evidence, either. And, it should be said - if people are editing against established consensus, then people are free to re-evaluate consensus, but edit-warring against it doesn't make much sense. m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- If not ownership then what is this - [28], [29], [30]? He removes two RfCs started by another editor, and revolving around the question that many of us actually find to be the fundamental question to answer regarding the entry. Then he edit wars to keep these RfCs off the page, claiming again to have some sort of authority stemming from your prior actions. If you aren't willing to do something here I'm going to another administrator and I'm going to ask for your initial "consensus," your strong arm administrating, and your lack of action here to be reviewed as well. Thanks.Griswaldo (talk) 17:08, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Anupam has already apologized for reverting those RfC additions, and we've moved past it. He also didn't claim to have administrative authority, but was waiting for my approval. We've cleared this up, it's not an issue. So no, I'm not going to take any action (as I've said here and on ANI). Now, if you'd like to threaten me and tell me that, since I'm not cooperating with your wills, you'll go to another administrator, that's fine - as I've said, you can seek outside opinions - but remember to keep a cool head, because borderline threats are not appreciated. m.o.p 21:49, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- It was not a threat, "borderline" or otherwise. You are conveniently ignoring a growing number of voices who are all saying the same thing - there is an ownership problem here. The deletion issue has not been "cleared up" as far as I'm concerned. Whenever it is mentioned Anupam insists that he did not "unilaterally" delete the RfCs from the page, which is a blatant distortion, since that is exactly what he did. He continues to act as a policeman at the page, and yes he does continue to cite your authority. Did you bother to read the many diffs I posted above in the second two sections? I will quote three random examples from those I provided for you if you want.
- When he first deleted the two RfCs he wrote: "rv - see discussion with reviewing administrator; approval needed to start another RfC while one is already occurring."
- When he deleted a fact tag that JimWae put into the lede: "rv excessive tagging per talk; tag is already extant in header; do not subvert previous consensus but gain consensus for potential additions per administrative notice"
- When he rejected another recent change to the entry: "accepted edits by User:Jkhwiki; rv removal of longstanding referenced content - see discussion on talk page and gain consensus for action per administrative injunction"
- In talk page comments and in edit summaries he consistently does the same thing. He refers to your authority, either directly or indirectly through your "notice" or your "injunction" as he likes to call it. I never said the claimed to have administrative authority, I said that he's using your authority, by way of your comments, such as the closure of the AfD to bully people. Do you deny that he citing your comments, because if you do then I must have fabricated those quotes. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:32, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
If you say "If you don't do A, then I'm going to go and do B", that's a threat. Anyway, that's not the issue - we've already covered all the issues with the RfC reverting, and Anupam won't do it again. Why keep raising hell over it?
We've already covered everything you bring up. And no, I'm not denying anything. I'm just saying this, and it's very simple: I don't think there has been any blatant ownership here. That's my judgment. If you disagree, again, feel free to raise this with another administrator or on ANI. m.o.p 23:12, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Regarding the new RFC, I still think there has not passed yet too much time since the last discussion about splitting the article. As far as I knew, repeating these sorts of debates (like splitting, deleting, renaming) before a larger amount of time has passed (like 6 months) is usually discouraged. And as others have also argued earlier, even if having multiple RFCs is possible, it's not very useful, and the new RFC seems to discourage further discussion about improving the lead introduction. So preventing multiple RFCs (and also a RFC about an issue debated not too long ago) does not look to me like evidence of bad faith intentions. Cody7777777 (talk) 21:37, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Cody, would you mind linking me to the previous RfC on splitting? m.o.p 21:49, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- The previous attempt to split the article can be found here. Cody7777777 (talk) 21:55, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Response
Yes, it does. Thanks, m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Dear User:Master of Puppets, I just noticed that User:Binksternet started another RfC while a current one is occurring. Is this appropriate? I reverted the addition motioning for one until your response is confirmed. If it is acceptable, then I apologize and will revert my edit. I look forward to your response. With regards, AnupamTalk 15:14, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'll form my reply on ANI. m.o.p 17:12, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- When you do please take into account my comment just above, regarding Anupam's edit warring to remove talk page comments (namely these RfCs) posted by others on the talk page. If you still don't think this is WP:OWN then clearly other administrators are needed here.Griswaldo (talk) 17:15, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Dear User:Griswaldo, how is going to a neutral mediator to address the issue owning the article? I acknowledge that the article is in dispute and as a result, I am asking an administrator for advice in this matter, NOT handling things on my own, as you have done by edit warring. Your WP:OWN allegations have not only been dismissed by this administrator, but by several other users, including, User:Lionelt, User:Cody7777777 and User:NYyankees51. Thanks, AnupamTalk 17:27, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- In reply to Griswaldo: reverting the RfCs was a mistake, but we've cleared that up now. As Anupam has stated at ANI, the intent was not to discourage discussion. If you think my judgment is compromised, you're welcome to seek another administrator's input. m.o.p 21:04, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- And as further evidence of WP:OWN, see this. Anupam adds a comment to everything that anyone else says, as if he/she is the owner of the article and everyone else is a subordinate contributor. This particular instance is pretty benign (although it clutters up the talk page with an unnecessary comment that merely says "I agree"), but I do think that Anupam at least needs to learn how to avoid giving the appearance of thinking he/she owns the article, and to desist from chipping in and saying the same thing over and over again, which almost makes meaningful discussion impossible! SNALWIBMA ( talk - contribs ) 17:31, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- While the input is appreciated, as I've said before, making allegations of ownership without hard evidence isn't going to get us anywhere. Anupam is not stopping others from discussing changes or forming consensus, and that's all that matters - refactoring the talk page or commenting on an issue is not against policy, and I'm not going to tell someone to stop editing because it "looks" like they're doing something wrong. As said above, you're welcome to request another administrator's insight if you wish. m.o.p 21:04, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
COIHi
you've helped me out before, with a conflict of interest problem, so having much more experience than me on wikipedia, I thought I would be bold enough to ask again for help.
Similar problem to last, User_talk:Hobbycraft is editing the HOBBYCRAFT article and making changes that aren't citably right. I think the user name suggest and history suggests a conflict of interest case.
Can you please, speak to them addressing this issue.
Thank you very much for your help.
Markcoulter50 (talk) 22:27, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
- I've blocked that user for username violations. Thanks a lot for letting me know! Keep up the great work, m.o.p 23:00, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkbackcausa sui (talk) 18:47, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Hello. You have a new message at causa sui's talk page. causa sui (talk) 20:54, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Problematic editing on militant atheism
- I hope it's not considered defamatory to repeat the final line: "I merely present the diffs above, and let others draw their own conclusions. Is this a duck? Does it quack? You decide.". Unfortunately, the concerned community no longer has that opportunity. What did you decide on their behalf? Does this duck quack, or not? bobrayner (talk) 15:42, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- It's not your wording, it's the very idea of it. Going to what's allegorically a public place and shouting, "Hey, everybody, this man is a criminal!" is one step below blatantly forming a lynch mob. As I've said, I have no problem with your wording or evidence, just your location of choice. Wikipedia is not, unfortunately, a democracy - letting others draw their conclusions and voice their opinions is not how a sockpuppet investigation works.
- So yes, please don't go restoring any of that section. We're not discussing editors, we're discussing the content they produce. Anything else has a sub-board to deal with it (like WP:SPI).
- Hopefully that clears things up! I'll be happy to answer any more questions should you have them. Cheers, m.o.p 15:48, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Hello User:Bobrayner, I noticed the section you created on the militant atheism talk page. If you do feel the way you do about User:Turnsalso and the anonymous IP Addresses, you can take this up with WP:SPI. Thanks, AnupamTalk 15:52, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
Are you kidding my MoP? Above your write: Going to what's allegorically a public place and shouting, "Hey, everybody, this man is a criminal!" is one step below blatantly forming a lynch mob. AND We're not discussing editors, we're discussing the content they produce. Yet you call this edit by Lionelt "good faith," at WQA? MoP, I would not ask you to agree with me or to like me, but can I please ask you not to insult me with these double standards.Griswaldo (talk) 16:18, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
]
- Griswaldo, I mean no offense when I say this, but I'd appreciate it if you stayed out of discussions which didn't involve you. Also, please don't put words in my mouth. Thanks, m.o.p 16:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I have not put words in your mouth. You said that you would assume good faith about Lionel. If you "assume good faith" it means you assume his edits were in "good faith." If you did not intend that meaning I suggest you reconsider what you wrote. Also, if you want me to "stay out of discussion which don't involve me" then I suggest your first order of business should be to do the same thing yourself. You decided to post at WQA, when there was no mention of you or anything you've done in that thread. Once again, I expect people not to practice double standards. So as long as you cannot show me that you will treat me as you ask to be treated yourself, I will not oblige you. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:21, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Please stop bickering. I'm not quite sure what you're trying to accomplish here. I've already explained what I meant when I said assuming good faith, but I'll explain again: I assumed that Lionelt was not hounding or deliberately haranguing you. I did not say, at any point, that his edit content was good faith, and I've told him not to edit like that again. So please stop accusing me of saying things I haven't said.
- Also, I posted in WQA because, as a mediator in this case and as an administrator, it's my duty to weigh in on administrative noticeboards, especially when the case is an ongoing discussion I've been participating in for three months. It is not your duty to weigh in on discussions on my talk page that don't concern you. I hope the distinction is clear here. m.o.p 20:33, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I think you are confused about something. Content is never good faith. "Editing in good faith" and "good faith edits" refers to the intent of the editor always. It has nothing to do with content. My assumption that you also felt the edits were appropriate comes from the fact that you did not say they weren't appropriate and clearly feel that his intentions were good. If you'd like to set the record straight on that issue you still can. I've asked you twice now to discuss the actual edits that are the focal point of the thread. Also, I moved the thread to ANI, per the suggestion of the editor who marked it "resolved."Griswaldo (talk) 20:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- See Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#User:Lionelt_--_following_my_past_edits_to_drum_up_support_against_me. FYI, I copy pasted the entire discussion because both you and Collect were critical of my initial post and I thought it was the right thing to do to preserve that criticism in the record of the conversation. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:43, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- In reply to your first paragraph: I'm going to give up now, as it seems you're misunderstanding most of what I type, but you're the one who stated that the content was not good faith (as you said, not appropriate), and I agreed - I referred to his intent in replying to you, and said that I assumed good faith in his motives, not his replies. I can't really say that in a clearer way, so my apologies if it's hard to understand. Also, as I've already said, I've left a message for Lionelt about his edits, so clearly I do not feel they're appropriate. m.o.p 20:57, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I, too, find these double standards vexing.
- Which diff is defamatory?
- I had hitherto thought that people on the article talkpage might like to be aware of potential problems with votestacking on the article talkpage (and 3rr evasion, of course). Would it be permitted to add a link to that list of diffs when it's in a different place, or would you consider that defamatory too? bobrayner (talk) 16:23, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- As I said, the information is not defamatory, but the way it's presented is - we have specific processes available to pursue should one feel there are sockpuppets about. However, calling someone out with the intent of informing the community is overstepping your authority and damaging to the accused's character. Also, there's no way a community discussion about whether or not one editor is a sockpuppet can end in anything other than a sockpuppet investigation anyway.
- So, in closing, please don't bring issues like this to the talk page. If you're concerned about votestacking, take it to the appropriate venue - if your concerns are validated, we'll take measures against said puppets. Cheers, m.o.p 16:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I am very disappointed that it's no longer permissible to raise problems with article-editing on the article talkpage. Previous concerns about sockpuppetry were simply ignored; the difference this time is that it's backed by lots of diffs.
- I'm fairly confident that the people concerned have sufficient technical nous to make checkuser draw a blank. And, let's be entirely honest, within minutes of me creating an SPI, an admin of the right persuasion will be getting an email suggesting that an SPI needs their attention. And SPI does not see offsite coordination by a facebook group &c. Finally, any null result at SPI will be used at the article in much the same way as previous administrative decisions have been. So, I do not believe that an SPI will improve either the article, or the encyclopædia as a whole. bobrayner (talk) 17:08, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- If you don't think the pre-existing methods set in place for situations like this are sufficient, you can always raise that concern at the village pump or suggest a policy revision - however, SPI is the venue for these requests, and the only venue. The talk page can not substitute. m.o.p 17:10, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
76.228.226.122Thank you for blocking the anonymous user, who is being counterproductive and rude. (although I think the block should have been one week, but I guess ok at least)
Can you also please try to hide the edit summaries of these edits if possible?
This and
this
Thanks and regards, talk 05:04, 26 September 2011 (UTC)]
- I'll extend the block if this behaviour continues after the block period is over.
- As for the edit summaries, those don't warrant hiding - I apologize for their content, but they don't meet the criteria of what I should remove. It's best just to ignore them for now. Cheers, m.o.p 05:13, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
- Okay, good to know, if I did nothing wrong, no permanent block will be enforced. The IP does not volunteer on WP as an admin and so the disproportionately out of line comments and threats of his should be ignored. --talk 05:19, 26 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Sounds good. We only hide extremely offensive revisions; milder ones stay in the edit history. Thanks again for bringing this to our attention! Cheers, m.o.p 05:31, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
Email
Jasper Deng (talk) 05:29, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
- Reading. talk) 06:00, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Bad Girls Club
- I've blocked Junebea for 2 days for disregarding warnings. m.o.p 20:30, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks for helping :) Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 21:06, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkback
- And again.Griswaldo (talk) 04:24, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
- And again ... but maybe the last. You can settle this question once and for all. See the talk page.Griswaldo (talk) 06:09, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'm sure I'm not alone in wanting to hear your replies to the last responses posed to you at that page. IMO, I don't know why you went down the road you did, but as far as I can tell you're blatantly misrepesenting facts about your own actions when people are brining concerns to you. You might think that since you closed the RfC the matter is settled, but it is not. You're actions have not made my life any more pleasant in the last few days vis-a-vis trying to deal with Anupam's disruption and I think you owe us all answers. So please revisit this thread and deal with the open questions. Thanks.Griswaldo (talk) 02:19, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
- I invite you to stop asking the same question again and again. This would be appreciated. Thanks, m.o.p 02:33, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Block question
- No, I just block obviously bad-faith accounts on sight. Advertising/spam accounts fall under that category. m.o.p 00:37, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Thanks
- Thank you. I've unlocked the article for whatever may come. If I'm needed again, feel free to let me know. Thanks for the kind words again, m.o.p 05:12, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
reminder
- We're still waiting to see if the user understands COI policy (per Ed's question). I'll prod the user and see if they'll answer. talk) 19:20, 30 September 2011 (UTC)]
Nextel logo deleted
- Mmm, good point. What's the link to the logo in question? m.o.p 01:33, 2 October 2011 (UTC)
Support of Sage City SymphonyYou deleted this page before I had a chance to go back in and add the stuff that you wanted to see, including the links within Wikipedia to important composers such as Lou Callabro (who started this orchestra and cites it in his Wikipedia page) and Susan Hurley whose work we premiered (SC is also mentioned in her Wikipedia entry). (Let alone links about the works we have performed.) And we have a web site at www.sagecitysymphony.org, have existed for over 35 yrs and are a significant cultural resource in the Bennington area such that we receive grants from local, statewide and national foundations.
I broke my wrist last weekend and am doing one-handed pecking so it'll take me a few days to get that loaded in. We are going out for a bit now, but I would appreciate your undeleting the page so that I don't have to re-invent the starting part when I go back in tomorrow to add links. Or delete it entirely so that I can start fresh - at this point either would work as long as I can start some serious work on it tomorrow. I am the webmaster by the way, so I do have access to content and more links.
Thank you, Celia Murray — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.228.127.119 (talk) 14:22, 1 October 2011 (UTC)
- It looks like fixed everything up. Best of luck, m.o.p 01:35, 2 October 2011 (UTC)]
Reply on Deterence's talk page
MA
After the beating you took you deserve a cold one--on me! Thanks for being fair and balanced – Lionel (talk) 03:55, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
- Hey, thanks! Glad to help out. :) m.o.p 03:56, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
Deletion of Mau5trap Recordings
--neocharles (talk) 07:33, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Existence does not equal notability - the subject has to be notable to get a Wikipedia page. m.o.p 12:05, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
Questoin re: AIV
- Addendum, actually, I read it very clearly in WP:VANDNOT: "Uploading or using material on Wikipedia in violation of Wikipedia's copyright policies is prohibited, but is not vandalism unless the user does so maliciously or fails to heed warnings." So if a person fails to heed warnings it is vandalism. My mistake here was that I only warned once. --Muhandes (talk) 12:29, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Eh, technically it is vandalism, but the user seems to be trying to improve the Wikipedia - that desire to help is misplaced in this case, as they seem to think that using copyrighted content is actually better. Weird. For most cases, yes, you should report copyvio to AIV - as long as they've been warned sufficiently. m.o.p 12:42, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- OK, he now did it again and the time stamp is after your last warning. Is it vandalism now? --Muhandes (talk) 12:32, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Yeah, if they're outright ignoring warnings. I've blocked for three days. m.o.p 12:40, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
Classmusic
- Oh, I know. But if somebody's lied to my face about using another account - and to other editors working on the article - I'm not about to let them go without a repercussion or two. I'd like Almost-instinct and Voceditnore to look over the article and fix up anything shifty. Also, I'd like Classmusic to respond to my warning, instead of blanking it and ignoring like they have to the above-named editors.
- So, in short, I know that COI doesn't bar editing, but it's enough of a concern that, given the user's recent behaviour, I'll stop them from doing anything until we've figured things out. This isn't too rouge-y, is it? I didn't hear that. Perhaps he is unaware of the sockpuppet investigation findings. Anyhow it seems that DeltaQuad has also blocked the Classmusic account. I left a note on his page about using the unblock template, but re-iterated that he needs to read the COI and Autobiography guidelines and stick to them scrupulously, if he gets unblocked. In the Opera and Classical Music WikiProjects, we get a lot of articles for performers, ensembles, etc. created by their agents and PR people, and often themselves. In my experience, the best I can hope for after one of these tussles is that they'll edit their article according to the guidelines in future. I have yet to find a single one who has ever contributed anything else to Wikipedia. Their only interest in the project is as a PR tool. Having said that, at least it results (after much red-pencilling from other editors) in one new article on a notable subject that we didn't have before and in a small way redresses the pop culture systemic bias here. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 13:40, 5 October 2011 (UTC)]
Danish election
- Never mind, it's been pulled by another admin. All the best, Jenks24 (talk) 11:03, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry about that! I was busy all day and didn't get your message until now. Thanks for letting me know, though! Cheers, m.o.p 19:51, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
3RRHey there! :)
Well WP:CRYSTAL has wined down, however, there's currently a
The Bad Girls Club (season 7). I have notified the two users [32], [33]. The evidence can be found here. They are having an edit-conflict on how the "Duration of cast" should be presented. Since there's no rules regarding anything like that, and it was made up about a year ago, I couldn't warned them to stop their e/c with anything except the 3RR rule. Maybe they need an admin to tell them to stop, so that's why I came to you :) Thanks, Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 01:17, 6 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Temporary page protection requested. Calabe1992 (talk) 01:29, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
DRV
Diligent07Appears to be less than new. See User talk:Raoulduke25 where he states that this is a deliberate series of edits.
- Can you please help defend our collective effort of including the obscene middle-finger incident in the Cheney Mason article? It should be maintained in the article for public interest, etc. Please see the Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard#Cheney Mason discussion page and include your thoughts in favor of having the content remain in the interests of the public, etc
[8], [9] and even imputation that an editor has a connection with the person [10]. He has been on since April, and started off as being experienced on WP IMHO. Kindly keep an eye out please. Especially for any sign of a real "collective effort"? Such as [11]? Cheers. Collect (talk) 11:36, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
A cookie for you!
Keep up the good work defending the "Wiki" against genre warriors. Thanks for the help! talk) 17:31, 13 July 2011 (UTC)]
Hello. You have a new message at Lionelt's talk page.
Semi protection
OK, this thing with the militant atheism page is impossibleThese guys are incredible... I could dig up diffs to show you how they revert and wikilawyer even the SMALLEST attempt to move the article closer to NPOV. But that would take a long time for you to read. How about I show you this instead:
These guys are utterly without scruples. Who in their right mind would remove the NPOV dispute tag when heated arguments have been raging for weeks and NO moves whatsoever have been made to fix the article? Oh right, that would be someone in their right mind who is running a propaganda platform.
Anyway... I wanted to ask your advice on what to do. These guys are impossible to work with. Most of the other editors have given up and refuse to put this page on their watchlist. So what to do then? Request formal mediation? Articles for deletion? Something else?
Me and the other editors would like to see the page replaced with a disambiguation page... since literally ALL the content has already been covered (better) in Criticism of atheism, State atheism and New Atheism.
Obhave (talk) 13:21, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
- Hello User:Master of Puppets. I noticed this conversation and thought I might add that an NPOV policy. Obhave (talk) 13:11, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
- One more thing, m.o.p... my opponents are currently twisting your words to make it look as if you were scolding user:Mann_jess all along. Obhave (talk) 14:42, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
]
User:Jasper Deng page protection
- No worries! m.o.p 19:35, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
Is there a procedure for brutal uncollaborated editing with a destructive intent?I noticed that you recently had problems with proposed brutal editing by Peter S Strempel. Although he has been more sensible on your project in the end (possibly because of your administrator status?) he has not been so with regard to the astrology project pages to which he made a similar 'razor-promise'. Could you please see this Afd request which is one of three he made for major 'history of astrology' articles within the last hour, with a promise on another important page that any comment which is not refrences within 7 days will be removed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Babylonian_astrology
Is there anything that can be done about this officially to stop him wreaking havoc with content whilst he knows that the small group of editors providing content on these pages are already stretched to the limit trying to keep up with what needs to be done? I don't understand what drives some people to want to edit WP like this, but I think it is entriely the result of his ego-stress that when he proposed an edit for a passage, no one favoured it. Hope you can help or advise Zac Δ talk 01:15, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks! assume good faith; I believe that Peter is simply trying to help improve Wikipedia. While his methods may be lacking in some areas, he has displayed a pretty decent grasp on the policies he's trying to enforce.
- However, I agree that he shouldn't be making any changes if they're not discussed with the community first. Do you mind pulling up a few diffs of where he went against consensus? I'll approach him with your concern then. Thanks, m.o.p 03:57, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
- Actually there hasn't been any significant content dispute with Peter. He proposed a change to a section edit which wasn't a very good proposition and a few editors commented but without rancur, and I added a new section post immediately afterwards to point out the proiposed change would contradict with how the definition was given correctly at a later point in the article, outlining how I understood WP policy expected the main astrology article to pull its own content together, along with its summarised content from its daughter pages. Peter never responded to this but other editors started working in that direction immediately. Then, without further discussion or comment, Peter came back four days later to announce an intention to take his 'word razor' to all unreferenced assertions on the main astrology page, its sub-pages, and the portal page itself, to ensure his perceived disagreement was not circumvented in pages he viewed as content forks (I'm still not sure what he means by that). My response to that can be seen - a perfectly reasonable request for him to do what he felt was most productive, but consider that citation-tagging was the way to go. I also placed comments on his talk-page, which you can read if you are interested. That he erupted into a frenzy of AfD requests last night says something, I think, about his unwillingness to discuss and engage in other views. Most of his posts appear as new section declarations that don't appear to have considered the responses other editors give him.
- I've summarised this in the ANI request Dougweller started. The deletion requests were a step too far IMO, and I'm concerned that Peter would spring to such drastic measures in reaction to what he perceives to be me not allowing him to do what he wants to do. I'll be away for a few days so I'm tying up my WP activity now. That underlines my concern that he intends to take such drastic action with only one week's notice of intent. Thanks for looking into this. It would be good if something could be proposed to stop huge problems before they occur. 10:35, 22 July 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zachariel (talk • contribs
)
- One last request. I have just noticed that a related complaint, which is quite serious but has been sidetracked (deliberatly IMO) by Peter's suggestions that I have prevented him from doing what he wants, has been collapsed as "going nowehere" by an unsympathetic editor.
- "Its ben here several days and no admin has even sniffed at a block or ban - clearly you're not going to get admin action. So this should got to WP:DR or WP:RFCU if you want to take it further. I've boldly collapsed this, though I won't be surprised if someone uncollapses it"
- If you can find the time could you at least take a look at that related problem, and consider uncollapsing it, because the issues are serious and have gone beyond the point where Dispute resolution are appropriate. I will be away and have nothing more to add, but the problems identified still remain. Zac Δ talk 10:58, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
What to do?
- I've started a threat at ANI. Those AfDs are purely pointy and if no one objects I'll close them. talk) 06:11, 22 July 2011 (UTC)]
- Replied there. m.o.p 08:20, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
Talk Page on Militant Atheism - Introduction Section
- The update is appreciated, thanks very much. I've been dealing with life for the past two weeks, but I'll be back to close that discussion tonight or tomorrow. Thanks again, m.o.p 22:03, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
- Just bringing this up again, given the current state of this section. I believe the discussion will be archived automatically if not closed. I'm sorry if I sound pushy with you having a lot on your plate of late. If you would prefer, I could alert User:Fastily instead. Turnsalso (talk) 16:55, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
ITN
- I knew that tab I closed had unfinished business on it... thanks. 2008 University of Central Arkansas shootings is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.
The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2008 University of Central Arkansas shootings(2nd nomination) until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on good quality evidence, and our policies and guidelines.
Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article.
talk 14:00, 1 September 2011 (UTC)]
Hey
- Done! Both your userpage and the transcluded page are protected. Cheers, « ₣M₣ » 04:09, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Restored. m.o.p 05:21, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
]
User talk:Joshua the Independent
- My mistake - my block script auto-filled the edit summary. The block was issued due to the user's newfound will to disrupt Wikipedia intentionally. Their previous contributions are welcome, but this behaviour necessitates administrative action. m.o.p 21:52, 13 September 2011 (UTC)
Say hi to your imaginary girlfriend for me
- Well, I do love getting hate mail. Thanks for the laugh! Cheers, m.o.p 05:17, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
...further to the above lovely note, I weighed in on Calabe's talk page - there appears to be more confusion here than at first glance. bou·le·var·dier (talk) 05:19, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
Sorry to drop by again, but Silentsizzlingsausage (talk · contribs) would appear to be a duck. bou·le·var·dier (talk) 05:31, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
- No, it's not an issue! Thanks for the note, blocked. Cheers, WP:SPI. Thanks again, m.o.p 06:13, 14 September 2011 (UTC)]
I have to admit ...
- See the above section. The link is apparently a very subtle spam link that Calabe is removing, and socks are springing up to revert him. Swarm u / t 10:20, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
Moderation
- Alright, I'll make my way back. Thanks for letting me know! m.o.p 05:18, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
User:12.139.96.228
- To be honest, this case is perplexing. Half of this user's edits are constructive (mostly sourced), the other half aren't sourced - and the user won't reply to anybody. I'm also too busy to go through every edit and confirm whether or not it's good. I forgot about this for a while - I'll think about it tonight and figure something out for tomorrow. Thanks for reminding me! m.o.p 05:18, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
Whoops
- Whoops! Must not have been looking when I ran my block script. Thanks for letting me know, I've reblocked them for a far shorter (technically, an infinitely shorter) time. Cheers, m.o.p 22:58, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
Ashleyleggat404
- You're fully right in that the blanking policy covers indefinite blocks. I've removed the user's talk page rights as a result. Thanks again! m.o.p 00:28, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkback
Moderation
- If you look into this please consider whether Anupam's actions on the talk page and the entry itself are violations of WP:OWN. He's been driving off those he disagrees with by bludgening them to death with argument and heavily policing the entry claiming that there is a consensus written in stone despite many dissenting voices. Others have taken to simply calling him "the article's owner." I have had enough of this behavior personally and left him a message about it on his talk page. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:52, 20 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Dear User:Master of Puppets, the above user has misrepresented the occurrences at the article. I started another Introduction discussion at the article's talk page but User:Griswaldo has chosen to edit war over a second NPOV tag, despite the fact that one already exists in the article. He has done so despite the fact that the Introduction is being discussed in a peaceful manner at the talk page, in violation of your injunction: "We've only got consensus on this proposed versions (and loose consensus at that) - please do not attempt to subvert said consensus by making undiscussed changes." I have posted a message on his talk page about this behaviour. Nevertheless, I also do not wish to argue with the user personally and would prefer if you could go back to moderating the discussion between the two parties at the talk page. Thanks for taking the time to read this message. With regards, AnupamTalk 20:58, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- His "injunction?" Adding a neutrality tag to a specific sentence which an editor disputes the neutrality of is hardly "subverting the consensus by making undiscussed changes." Please stop wikilawyering to get your way. There is a growing consensus against your position regarding this article in general as well, despite your aggressive policing of the entry and the talk page. See ]
- I just thought that I would mention that User:Griswaldo, after seeing this message, just now decided to comment in the discussion rather than edit war against consensus further. Thanks for taking the time to read this message. With regards, AnupamTalk 21:51, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- "Edit war against consensus further?" My comment there has nothing to do with your message here. I've made three total edits to this entry ever. One was a copy edit in June, another was reverting an IP vandal, and the third was the revert of your Ownership edit. Please do not insinuate that I'm a edit warrior on this page. It is disingenuous.Griswaldo (talk) 22:08, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Thank you all for approaching me with your concerns.
- Obviously, I do not support Anupam - this is because I'm remaining a neutral third party, and, therefore, can't take sides. However, Griswaldo: please keep in mind that I did ask for all discussion to take place on the talk page. Why not just add your complaints to the talk page? It would have been much easier to discuss.
- I do agree that adding a NPOV tag, while slightly redundant, isn't horrible, but your intent seems to have been to stir discussion on that particular section, discussion that would be much more appropriate on the talk page.
- As for your and Snalwibma's concerns of Anupam trying to 'own' the article, I'm curious as to what you two mean; what 'delusions'?
- Also, Griswaldo, I don't think Anupam meant to insinuate you are an edit warrior (though this is just my take) - rather, they wanted to add the note that you've weighed in on discussion. m.o.p 22:10, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- your intent seems to have been to stir discussion on that particular section - No that's incorrect. I didn't add this tag, I simply reverted Anupam's attempt to own the page when he removed it. I agreed with JimWae's addition of the tag and found Anupam's removal to be unwarranted and a display of ownership.Griswaldo (talk) 22:16, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Note that, for all intents and purposes, reverting somebody is adding whatever is included in your edit, regardless of who put it there first. You revert a removal, you're agreeing with the edition you're reverting to - simple.
- And, if you agreed with JimWae, then we go back to what I was saying earlier - say so on the talk page. Two of you agree? Great! That's closer to consensus. But it means nothing if you express your support by reverting removals.
- Again, as I've asked multiple times, please stop saying that Anupam is owning anything without giving me evidence of it first. m.o.p 22:22, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Dear User:Master of Puppets, thank you for your reply to all of us. The reason User:Snalwibma stated that I was attempting to "own" the article was because I reverted an undiscussed removal from the article, which not only myself, but two other users objected to. In fact, two anonymous IP Addresses also reverted User:Snalwibma. I was open to compromise on the issue and stated that I would accept User:Turnsalso's compromise on the issue. I kindly request you to look at that discussion yourself and get an honest reading of it. Also, the only reason I removed the second NPOV tag was because there was already one present, which I did not remove. I only reverted the addition of a second NPOV tag once and even explained myself on the talk page. When I went to the talk page, I found rude accusations and an anti-collaborative spirit, despite the fact that I have been nothing but polite. I hope this helps. With regards, AnupamTalk 22:25, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry - I know I should not rise to the bait, but I have to object to the comment "The reason User:Snalwibma stated that I was attempting to 'own' the article was because I reverted an undiscussed removal ..." How dare Anupam presume to know what is in my mind! The reason I describe Anupam's attitude to the article as one of ownership is because that is how s/he behaves - "policing" every edit, pronouncing on whether s/he "accepts" or "rejects" it, peremptorily reverting anything s/he does not like, without discussion, presuming to know others' motives, and judging them as fit/unfit to contribute to the article. This has been going on for weeks, if not months. It is impossible to discuss the content of the article, let alone improve the text, because everything is filtered through the approval/disapproval of the article's self-appointed guardian, Anupam. tendentious or disruptive when they bring up certain issues, even when they are clearly in the majority. That is not collaborative. I stopped editing the article heavily because of those issues. I don't have any delusions that my opinion is worth more than anyone else's here, but I would think that the large number of established, experienced editors who are all saying there's a problem, would indicate something. — Jess· Δ♥ 19:45, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
Please reconsider your full protection of Militant atheist
- In case you didn't notice, I asked that people think twice about pointing fingers at each other. If you'd like to start a sockpuppetry investigation, let me know, and we can take that avenue - however, don't accuse other editors of ownership without substance. If you think Anupam is trying to own things, give me something. Diffs, edits, anything. I'll check it out for you, but right now, baseless accusations are not what I'm looking for.
- Also, notice that I protected the article with your edit being the last one. How is that validating the very person you've been reverting?
- The protection will stay until consensus is reached. m.o.p 22:19, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Because protection is what he wants quite clearly. He's stalling conversation and shouting down people on the talk page, where, if you have a look, you'll see he's clearly in the minority. Because of your "injunction" as he calls it, he also claims that no matter how many people agree with a certain change it is illegitimate. I'll be happy to gather some diffs, but my first message to you above was to please look into the situation carefully before acting on it. Did you do that and come to the conclusion that I'm wrong or did you not head that request? Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:29, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Yes, I did heed your request. I don't see any ownership behaviour from Anupam, though, being involved in multiple disputes, I didn't have the time to read every last word on the page, so you're free to provide evidence. However, from what I can see, Anupam's last proposal was supported by the majority - not to count (and I don't mean to imply that I decide where consensus lies by looking at pure numbers), but from looking at pure supports versus opposes, eight people (nine including Anupam) support while four oppose. How does that make Anupam's views a minority? m.o.p 22:37, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- It depends on what view you are talking about. The current RFC on the introduction is something that most people don't even want to engage because most people think this very entry should be split up and integrated into other entries. I reluctantly engaged the RfC just now myself. The last time the more serious question about the entry was asked, several of the new commentators were not around, and there was "no consensus" found because the opposing side was chalk full of SPAs and editors with a view that is outright hostile to atheism (which is a legitimate view to hold, but it is a minority view). Let me find you some diffs.Griswaldo (talk) 22:43, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- User:Griswaldo, that is exactly the issue: you do not want to collaborate with other users on the talk page, which is why you were reluctant to participate in the current RfC. Moreover, there were several SPA's on the side of the opposition as well, including WP:NPOV. In addition, the split was again recently discussed and the specific case to do so was refuted by several editors. As such, there was no consensus for it. I hope this helps. With regards, AnupamTalk 22:52, 20 September 2011 (UTC)]
- No. You are trying to write an article that violates WP:SYNTH because it conflates New Atheism with oppressive communist regimes and their histories of violence. That's hardly NPOV. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:59, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
Hi m.o.p., as someone who occasionally looks at that page (and then washes my hands), I just want to compliment you as having done the right thing in full protecting. By way of unsolicited advice to the involved editors, the best thing they could do is to allow The Wrong Version to sit there a good long time, and devote their energy to other things. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:54, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
]
Yes, please reconsider your full protection of
WP:RS—deserve protection against misinformed reverts. Thanks Geremia (talk) 16:12, 22 September 2011 (UTC)]
Diffs of
- I'm not really sure where the ownership is here; nowhere in our policies is it stated that a user can't promote their RFC on the subject talk page. If it's ongoing and they'd like to move it to the forefront, what's wrong with that? More so, some of your summaries seem inaccurate - in that last diff, you state that Anupam is removing images, yet I only see Anupam adding an image (the peace dove that's at the top of the page). Also, you use repeating examples. m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Well clearly the last diff was wrong. Thanks for the vote of confidence. There are no repeat examples nor inaccurate summaries, just a mistaken copy paste of the second to last diff to the last position as well. I have fixed it. Cheers.
- Using "consensus claims from one RfC to reject changes made to article content
- Same as above. Using the "consensus" bludgeon to get his way. Please note that clearly we ought to edit by consensus, but this consensus is highly disputed, and IMO not there in the first place. The real problem is the way in which Anupam decides to use it like a trump card to remove changes he doesn't like. Ask yourself if all changes post "consensus" have been removed or just the ones Anupam decided he wanted removed.
Master of Puppets do you need more diffs or is this enough?Griswaldo (talk) 23:31, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Well I need more diffs because your "evidence" so far looks like a desperate attempt to incriminate an editor who has been very successful in persuading his colleagues to adopt his proposals. Anupam has presented his proposals, argued the merits and persuaded many editors. Anything you want to tell us about why you're having difficulty doing likewise? – Lionel (talk) 06:02, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- I don't see this is as conclusive evidence, either. And, it should be said - if people are editing against established consensus, then people are free to re-evaluate consensus, but edit-warring against it doesn't make much sense. m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- If not ownership then what is this - [28], [29], [30]? He removes two RfCs started by another editor, and revolving around the question that many of us actually find to be the fundamental question to answer regarding the entry. Then he edit wars to keep these RfCs off the page, claiming again to have some sort of authority stemming from your prior actions. If you aren't willing to do something here I'm going to another administrator and I'm going to ask for your initial "consensus," your strong arm administrating, and your lack of action here to be reviewed as well. Thanks.Griswaldo (talk) 17:08, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Anupam has already apologized for reverting those RfC additions, and we've moved past it. He also didn't claim to have administrative authority, but was waiting for my approval. We've cleared this up, it's not an issue. So no, I'm not going to take any action (as I've said here and on ANI). Now, if you'd like to threaten me and tell me that, since I'm not cooperating with your wills, you'll go to another administrator, that's fine - as I've said, you can seek outside opinions - but remember to keep a cool head, because borderline threats are not appreciated. m.o.p 21:49, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- It was not a threat, "borderline" or otherwise. You are conveniently ignoring a growing number of voices who are all saying the same thing - there is an ownership problem here. The deletion issue has not been "cleared up" as far as I'm concerned. Whenever it is mentioned Anupam insists that he did not "unilaterally" delete the RfCs from the page, which is a blatant distortion, since that is exactly what he did. He continues to act as a policeman at the page, and yes he does continue to cite your authority. Did you bother to read the many diffs I posted above in the second two sections? I will quote three random examples from those I provided for you if you want.
- When he first deleted the two RfCs he wrote: "rv - see discussion with reviewing administrator; approval needed to start another RfC while one is already occurring."
- When he deleted a fact tag that JimWae put into the lede: "rv excessive tagging per talk; tag is already extant in header; do not subvert previous consensus but gain consensus for potential additions per administrative notice"
- When he rejected another recent change to the entry: "accepted edits by User:Jkhwiki; rv removal of longstanding referenced content - see discussion on talk page and gain consensus for action per administrative injunction"
- In talk page comments and in edit summaries he consistently does the same thing. He refers to your authority, either directly or indirectly through your "notice" or your "injunction" as he likes to call it. I never said the claimed to have administrative authority, I said that he's using your authority, by way of your comments, such as the closure of the AfD to bully people. Do you deny that he citing your comments, because if you do then I must have fabricated those quotes. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:32, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
If you say "If you don't do A, then I'm going to go and do B", that's a threat. Anyway, that's not the issue - we've already covered all the issues with the RfC reverting, and Anupam won't do it again. Why keep raising hell over it?
We've already covered everything you bring up. And no, I'm not denying anything. I'm just saying this, and it's very simple: I don't think there has been any blatant ownership here. That's my judgment. If you disagree, again, feel free to raise this with another administrator or on ANI. m.o.p 23:12, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Regarding the new RFC, I still think there has not passed yet too much time since the last discussion about splitting the article. As far as I knew, repeating these sorts of debates (like splitting, deleting, renaming) before a larger amount of time has passed (like 6 months) is usually discouraged. And as others have also argued earlier, even if having multiple RFCs is possible, it's not very useful, and the new RFC seems to discourage further discussion about improving the lead introduction. So preventing multiple RFCs (and also a RFC about an issue debated not too long ago) does not look to me like evidence of bad faith intentions. Cody7777777 (talk) 21:37, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Cody, would you mind linking me to the previous RfC on splitting? m.o.p 21:49, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- The previous attempt to split the article can be found here. Cody7777777 (talk) 21:55, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Response
Yes, it does. Thanks, m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Dear User:Master of Puppets, I just noticed that User:Binksternet started another RfC while a current one is occurring. Is this appropriate? I reverted the addition motioning for one until your response is confirmed. If it is acceptable, then I apologize and will revert my edit. I look forward to your response. With regards, AnupamTalk 15:14, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'll form my reply on ANI. m.o.p 17:12, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- When you do please take into account my comment just above, regarding Anupam's edit warring to remove talk page comments (namely these RfCs) posted by others on the talk page. If you still don't think this is WP:OWN then clearly other administrators are needed here.Griswaldo (talk) 17:15, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Dear User:Griswaldo, how is going to a neutral mediator to address the issue owning the article? I acknowledge that the article is in dispute and as a result, I am asking an administrator for advice in this matter, NOT handling things on my own, as you have done by edit warring. Your WP:OWN allegations have not only been dismissed by this administrator, but by several other users, including, User:Lionelt, User:Cody7777777 and User:NYyankees51. Thanks, AnupamTalk 17:27, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- In reply to Griswaldo: reverting the RfCs was a mistake, but we've cleared that up now. As Anupam has stated at ANI, the intent was not to discourage discussion. If you think my judgment is compromised, you're welcome to seek another administrator's input. m.o.p 21:04, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- And as further evidence of WP:OWN, see this. Anupam adds a comment to everything that anyone else says, as if he/she is the owner of the article and everyone else is a subordinate contributor. This particular instance is pretty benign (although it clutters up the talk page with an unnecessary comment that merely says "I agree"), but I do think that Anupam at least needs to learn how to avoid giving the appearance of thinking he/she owns the article, and to desist from chipping in and saying the same thing over and over again, which almost makes meaningful discussion impossible! SNALWIBMA ( talk - contribs ) 17:31, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- While the input is appreciated, as I've said before, making allegations of ownership without hard evidence isn't going to get us anywhere. Anupam is not stopping others from discussing changes or forming consensus, and that's all that matters - refactoring the talk page or commenting on an issue is not against policy, and I'm not going to tell someone to stop editing because it "looks" like they're doing something wrong. As said above, you're welcome to request another administrator's insight if you wish. m.o.p 21:04, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
COIHi
you've helped me out before, with a conflict of interest problem, so having much more experience than me on wikipedia, I thought I would be bold enough to ask again for help.
Similar problem to last, User_talk:Hobbycraft is editing the HOBBYCRAFT article and making changes that aren't citably right. I think the user name suggest and history suggests a conflict of interest case.
Can you please, speak to them addressing this issue.
Thank you very much for your help.
Markcoulter50 (talk) 22:27, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
- I've blocked that user for username violations. Thanks a lot for letting me know! Keep up the great work, m.o.p 23:00, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkbackcausa sui (talk) 18:47, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Hello. You have a new message at causa sui's talk page. causa sui (talk) 20:54, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Problematic editing on militant atheism
- I hope it's not considered defamatory to repeat the final line: "I merely present the diffs above, and let others draw their own conclusions. Is this a duck? Does it quack? You decide.". Unfortunately, the concerned community no longer has that opportunity. What did you decide on their behalf? Does this duck quack, or not? bobrayner (talk) 15:42, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- It's not your wording, it's the very idea of it. Going to what's allegorically a public place and shouting, "Hey, everybody, this man is a criminal!" is one step below blatantly forming a lynch mob. As I've said, I have no problem with your wording or evidence, just your location of choice. Wikipedia is not, unfortunately, a democracy - letting others draw their conclusions and voice their opinions is not how a sockpuppet investigation works.
- So yes, please don't go restoring any of that section. We're not discussing editors, we're discussing the content they produce. Anything else has a sub-board to deal with it (like WP:SPI).
- Hopefully that clears things up! I'll be happy to answer any more questions should you have them. Cheers, m.o.p 15:48, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Hello User:Bobrayner, I noticed the section you created on the militant atheism talk page. If you do feel the way you do about User:Turnsalso and the anonymous IP Addresses, you can take this up with WP:SPI. Thanks, AnupamTalk 15:52, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
Are you kidding my MoP? Above your write: Going to what's allegorically a public place and shouting, "Hey, everybody, this man is a criminal!" is one step below blatantly forming a lynch mob. AND We're not discussing editors, we're discussing the content they produce. Yet you call this edit by Lionelt "good faith," at WQA? MoP, I would not ask you to agree with me or to like me, but can I please ask you not to insult me with these double standards.Griswaldo (talk) 16:18, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
]
- Griswaldo, I mean no offense when I say this, but I'd appreciate it if you stayed out of discussions which didn't involve you. Also, please don't put words in my mouth. Thanks, m.o.p 16:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I have not put words in your mouth. You said that you would assume good faith about Lionel. If you "assume good faith" it means you assume his edits were in "good faith." If you did not intend that meaning I suggest you reconsider what you wrote. Also, if you want me to "stay out of discussion which don't involve me" then I suggest your first order of business should be to do the same thing yourself. You decided to post at WQA, when there was no mention of you or anything you've done in that thread. Once again, I expect people not to practice double standards. So as long as you cannot show me that you will treat me as you ask to be treated yourself, I will not oblige you. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:21, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Please stop bickering. I'm not quite sure what you're trying to accomplish here. I've already explained what I meant when I said assuming good faith, but I'll explain again: I assumed that Lionelt was not hounding or deliberately haranguing you. I did not say, at any point, that his edit content was good faith, and I've told him not to edit like that again. So please stop accusing me of saying things I haven't said.
- Also, I posted in WQA because, as a mediator in this case and as an administrator, it's my duty to weigh in on administrative noticeboards, especially when the case is an ongoing discussion I've been participating in for three months. It is not your duty to weigh in on discussions on my talk page that don't concern you. I hope the distinction is clear here. m.o.p 20:33, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I think you are confused about something. Content is never good faith. "Editing in good faith" and "good faith edits" refers to the intent of the editor always. It has nothing to do with content. My assumption that you also felt the edits were appropriate comes from the fact that you did not say they weren't appropriate and clearly feel that his intentions were good. If you'd like to set the record straight on that issue you still can. I've asked you twice now to discuss the actual edits that are the focal point of the thread. Also, I moved the thread to ANI, per the suggestion of the editor who marked it "resolved."Griswaldo (talk) 20:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- See Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#User:Lionelt_--_following_my_past_edits_to_drum_up_support_against_me. FYI, I copy pasted the entire discussion because both you and Collect were critical of my initial post and I thought it was the right thing to do to preserve that criticism in the record of the conversation. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:43, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- In reply to your first paragraph: I'm going to give up now, as it seems you're misunderstanding most of what I type, but you're the one who stated that the content was not good faith (as you said, not appropriate), and I agreed - I referred to his intent in replying to you, and said that I assumed good faith in his motives, not his replies. I can't really say that in a clearer way, so my apologies if it's hard to understand. Also, as I've already said, I've left a message for Lionelt about his edits, so clearly I do not feel they're appropriate. m.o.p 20:57, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I, too, find these double standards vexing.
- Which diff is defamatory?
- I had hitherto thought that people on the article talkpage might like to be aware of potential problems with votestacking on the article talkpage (and 3rr evasion, of course). Would it be permitted to add a link to that list of diffs when it's in a different place, or would you consider that defamatory too? bobrayner (talk) 16:23, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- As I said, the information is not defamatory, but the way it's presented is - we have specific processes available to pursue should one feel there are sockpuppets about. However, calling someone out with the intent of informing the community is overstepping your authority and damaging to the accused's character. Also, there's no way a community discussion about whether or not one editor is a sockpuppet can end in anything other than a sockpuppet investigation anyway.
- So, in closing, please don't bring issues like this to the talk page. If you're concerned about votestacking, take it to the appropriate venue - if your concerns are validated, we'll take measures against said puppets. Cheers, m.o.p 16:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I am very disappointed that it's no longer permissible to raise problems with article-editing on the article talkpage. Previous concerns about sockpuppetry were simply ignored; the difference this time is that it's backed by lots of diffs.
- I'm fairly confident that the people concerned have sufficient technical nous to make checkuser draw a blank. And, let's be entirely honest, within minutes of me creating an SPI, an admin of the right persuasion will be getting an email suggesting that an SPI needs their attention. And SPI does not see offsite coordination by a facebook group &c. Finally, any null result at SPI will be used at the article in much the same way as previous administrative decisions have been. So, I do not believe that an SPI will improve either the article, or the encyclopædia as a whole. bobrayner (talk) 17:08, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- If you don't think the pre-existing methods set in place for situations like this are sufficient, you can always raise that concern at the village pump or suggest a policy revision - however, SPI is the venue for these requests, and the only venue. The talk page can not substitute. m.o.p 17:10, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
76.228.226.122Thank you for blocking the anonymous user, who is being counterproductive and rude. (although I think the block should have been one week, but I guess ok at least)
Can you also please try to hide the edit summaries of these edits if possible?
This and
this
Thanks and regards, talk 05:04, 26 September 2011 (UTC)]
- I'll extend the block if this behaviour continues after the block period is over.
- As for the edit summaries, those don't warrant hiding - I apologize for their content, but they don't meet the criteria of what I should remove. It's best just to ignore them for now. Cheers, m.o.p 05:13, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
- Okay, good to know, if I did nothing wrong, no permanent block will be enforced. The IP does not volunteer on WP as an admin and so the disproportionately out of line comments and threats of his should be ignored. --talk 05:19, 26 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Sounds good. We only hide extremely offensive revisions; milder ones stay in the edit history. Thanks again for bringing this to our attention! Cheers, m.o.p 05:31, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
Email
Jasper Deng (talk) 05:29, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
- Reading. talk) 06:00, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Bad Girls Club
- I've blocked Junebea for 2 days for disregarding warnings. m.o.p 20:30, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks for helping :) Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 21:06, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkback
- And again.Griswaldo (talk) 04:24, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
- And again ... but maybe the last. You can settle this question once and for all. See the talk page.Griswaldo (talk) 06:09, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'm sure I'm not alone in wanting to hear your replies to the last responses posed to you at that page. IMO, I don't know why you went down the road you did, but as far as I can tell you're blatantly misrepesenting facts about your own actions when people are brining concerns to you. You might think that since you closed the RfC the matter is settled, but it is not. You're actions have not made my life any more pleasant in the last few days vis-a-vis trying to deal with Anupam's disruption and I think you owe us all answers. So please revisit this thread and deal with the open questions. Thanks.Griswaldo (talk) 02:19, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
- I invite you to stop asking the same question again and again. This would be appreciated. Thanks, m.o.p 02:33, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Block question
- No, I just block obviously bad-faith accounts on sight. Advertising/spam accounts fall under that category. m.o.p 00:37, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Thanks
- Thank you. I've unlocked the article for whatever may come. If I'm needed again, feel free to let me know. Thanks for the kind words again, m.o.p 05:12, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
reminder
- We're still waiting to see if the user understands COI policy (per Ed's question). I'll prod the user and see if they'll answer. talk) 19:20, 30 September 2011 (UTC)]
Nextel logo deleted
- Mmm, good point. What's the link to the logo in question? m.o.p 01:33, 2 October 2011 (UTC)
Support of Sage City SymphonyYou deleted this page before I had a chance to go back in and add the stuff that you wanted to see, including the links within Wikipedia to important composers such as Lou Callabro (who started this orchestra and cites it in his Wikipedia page) and Susan Hurley whose work we premiered (SC is also mentioned in her Wikipedia entry). (Let alone links about the works we have performed.) And we have a web site at www.sagecitysymphony.org, have existed for over 35 yrs and are a significant cultural resource in the Bennington area such that we receive grants from local, statewide and national foundations.
I broke my wrist last weekend and am doing one-handed pecking so it'll take me a few days to get that loaded in. We are going out for a bit now, but I would appreciate your undeleting the page so that I don't have to re-invent the starting part when I go back in tomorrow to add links. Or delete it entirely so that I can start fresh - at this point either would work as long as I can start some serious work on it tomorrow. I am the webmaster by the way, so I do have access to content and more links.
Thank you, Celia Murray — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.228.127.119 (talk) 14:22, 1 October 2011 (UTC)
- It looks like fixed everything up. Best of luck, m.o.p 01:35, 2 October 2011 (UTC)]
Reply on Deterence's talk page
MA
After the beating you took you deserve a cold one--on me! Thanks for being fair and balanced – Lionel (talk) 03:55, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
- Hey, thanks! Glad to help out. :) m.o.p 03:56, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
Deletion of Mau5trap Recordings
--neocharles (talk) 07:33, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Existence does not equal notability - the subject has to be notable to get a Wikipedia page. m.o.p 12:05, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
Questoin re: AIV
- Addendum, actually, I read it very clearly in WP:VANDNOT: "Uploading or using material on Wikipedia in violation of Wikipedia's copyright policies is prohibited, but is not vandalism unless the user does so maliciously or fails to heed warnings." So if a person fails to heed warnings it is vandalism. My mistake here was that I only warned once. --Muhandes (talk) 12:29, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Eh, technically it is vandalism, but the user seems to be trying to improve the Wikipedia - that desire to help is misplaced in this case, as they seem to think that using copyrighted content is actually better. Weird. For most cases, yes, you should report copyvio to AIV - as long as they've been warned sufficiently. m.o.p 12:42, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- OK, he now did it again and the time stamp is after your last warning. Is it vandalism now? --Muhandes (talk) 12:32, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Yeah, if they're outright ignoring warnings. I've blocked for three days. m.o.p 12:40, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
Classmusic
- Oh, I know. But if somebody's lied to my face about using another account - and to other editors working on the article - I'm not about to let them go without a repercussion or two. I'd like Almost-instinct and Voceditnore to look over the article and fix up anything shifty. Also, I'd like Classmusic to respond to my warning, instead of blanking it and ignoring like they have to the above-named editors.
- So, in short, I know that COI doesn't bar editing, but it's enough of a concern that, given the user's recent behaviour, I'll stop them from doing anything until we've figured things out. This isn't too rouge-y, is it? I didn't hear that. Perhaps he is unaware of the sockpuppet investigation findings. Anyhow it seems that DeltaQuad has also blocked the Classmusic account. I left a note on his page about using the unblock template, but re-iterated that he needs to read the COI and Autobiography guidelines and stick to them scrupulously, if he gets unblocked. In the Opera and Classical Music WikiProjects, we get a lot of articles for performers, ensembles, etc. created by their agents and PR people, and often themselves. In my experience, the best I can hope for after one of these tussles is that they'll edit their article according to the guidelines in future. I have yet to find a single one who has ever contributed anything else to Wikipedia. Their only interest in the project is as a PR tool. Having said that, at least it results (after much red-pencilling from other editors) in one new article on a notable subject that we didn't have before and in a small way redresses the pop culture systemic bias here. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 13:40, 5 October 2011 (UTC)]
Danish election
- Never mind, it's been pulled by another admin. All the best, Jenks24 (talk) 11:03, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry about that! I was busy all day and didn't get your message until now. Thanks for letting me know, though! Cheers, m.o.p 19:51, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
3RRHey there! :)
Well WP:CRYSTAL has wined down, however, there's currently a
The Bad Girls Club (season 7). I have notified the two users [32], [33]. The evidence can be found here. They are having an edit-conflict on how the "Duration of cast" should be presented. Since there's no rules regarding anything like that, and it was made up about a year ago, I couldn't warned them to stop their e/c with anything except the 3RR rule. Maybe they need an admin to tell them to stop, so that's why I came to you :) Thanks, Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 01:17, 6 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Temporary page protection requested. Calabe1992 (talk) 01:29, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
A cookie for you!
![](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b4/Choco_chip_cookie.png/120px-Choco_chip_cookie.png)
![You have new message/s](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/23/Nuvola_apps_edu_languages.svg/18px-Nuvola_apps_edu_languages.svg.png)
Semi protection
OK, this thing with the militant atheism page is impossibleThese guys are incredible... I could dig up diffs to show you how they revert and wikilawyer even the SMALLEST attempt to move the article closer to NPOV. But that would take a long time for you to read. How about I show you this instead:
These guys are utterly without scruples. Who in their right mind would remove the NPOV dispute tag when heated arguments have been raging for weeks and NO moves whatsoever have been made to fix the article? Oh right, that would be someone in their right mind who is running a propaganda platform.
Anyway... I wanted to ask your advice on what to do. These guys are impossible to work with. Most of the other editors have given up and refuse to put this page on their watchlist. So what to do then? Request formal mediation? Articles for deletion? Something else?
Me and the other editors would like to see the page replaced with a disambiguation page... since literally ALL the content has already been covered (better) in Criticism of atheism, State atheism and New Atheism.
Obhave (talk) 13:21, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
- Hello User:Master of Puppets. I noticed this conversation and thought I might add that an NPOV policy. Obhave (talk) 13:11, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
- One more thing, m.o.p... my opponents are currently twisting your words to make it look as if you were scolding user:Mann_jess all along. Obhave (talk) 14:42, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
]
User:Jasper Deng page protection
- No worries! m.o.p 19:35, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
Is there a procedure for brutal uncollaborated editing with a destructive intent?I noticed that you recently had problems with proposed brutal editing by Peter S Strempel. Although he has been more sensible on your project in the end (possibly because of your administrator status?) he has not been so with regard to the astrology project pages to which he made a similar 'razor-promise'. Could you please see this Afd request which is one of three he made for major 'history of astrology' articles within the last hour, with a promise on another important page that any comment which is not refrences within 7 days will be removed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Babylonian_astrology
Is there anything that can be done about this officially to stop him wreaking havoc with content whilst he knows that the small group of editors providing content on these pages are already stretched to the limit trying to keep up with what needs to be done? I don't understand what drives some people to want to edit WP like this, but I think it is entriely the result of his ego-stress that when he proposed an edit for a passage, no one favoured it. Hope you can help or advise Zac Δ talk 01:15, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks! assume good faith; I believe that Peter is simply trying to help improve Wikipedia. While his methods may be lacking in some areas, he has displayed a pretty decent grasp on the policies he's trying to enforce.
- However, I agree that he shouldn't be making any changes if they're not discussed with the community first. Do you mind pulling up a few diffs of where he went against consensus? I'll approach him with your concern then. Thanks, m.o.p 03:57, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
- Actually there hasn't been any significant content dispute with Peter. He proposed a change to a section edit which wasn't a very good proposition and a few editors commented but without rancur, and I added a new section post immediately afterwards to point out the proiposed change would contradict with how the definition was given correctly at a later point in the article, outlining how I understood WP policy expected the main astrology article to pull its own content together, along with its summarised content from its daughter pages. Peter never responded to this but other editors started working in that direction immediately. Then, without further discussion or comment, Peter came back four days later to announce an intention to take his 'word razor' to all unreferenced assertions on the main astrology page, its sub-pages, and the portal page itself, to ensure his perceived disagreement was not circumvented in pages he viewed as content forks (I'm still not sure what he means by that). My response to that can be seen - a perfectly reasonable request for him to do what he felt was most productive, but consider that citation-tagging was the way to go. I also placed comments on his talk-page, which you can read if you are interested. That he erupted into a frenzy of AfD requests last night says something, I think, about his unwillingness to discuss and engage in other views. Most of his posts appear as new section declarations that don't appear to have considered the responses other editors give him.
- I've summarised this in the ANI request Dougweller started. The deletion requests were a step too far IMO, and I'm concerned that Peter would spring to such drastic measures in reaction to what he perceives to be me not allowing him to do what he wants to do. I'll be away for a few days so I'm tying up my WP activity now. That underlines my concern that he intends to take such drastic action with only one week's notice of intent. Thanks for looking into this. It would be good if something could be proposed to stop huge problems before they occur. 10:35, 22 July 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zachariel (talk • contribs
)
- One last request. I have just noticed that a related complaint, which is quite serious but has been sidetracked (deliberatly IMO) by Peter's suggestions that I have prevented him from doing what he wants, has been collapsed as "going nowehere" by an unsympathetic editor.
- "Its ben here several days and no admin has even sniffed at a block or ban - clearly you're not going to get admin action. So this should got to WP:DR or WP:RFCU if you want to take it further. I've boldly collapsed this, though I won't be surprised if someone uncollapses it"
- If you can find the time could you at least take a look at that related problem, and consider uncollapsing it, because the issues are serious and have gone beyond the point where Dispute resolution are appropriate. I will be away and have nothing more to add, but the problems identified still remain. Zac Δ talk 10:58, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
What to do?
- I've started a threat at ANI. Those AfDs are purely pointy and if no one objects I'll close them. talk) 06:11, 22 July 2011 (UTC)]
- Replied there. m.o.p 08:20, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
Talk Page on Militant Atheism - Introduction Section
- The update is appreciated, thanks very much. I've been dealing with life for the past two weeks, but I'll be back to close that discussion tonight or tomorrow. Thanks again, m.o.p 22:03, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
- Just bringing this up again, given the current state of this section. I believe the discussion will be archived automatically if not closed. I'm sorry if I sound pushy with you having a lot on your plate of late. If you would prefer, I could alert User:Fastily instead. Turnsalso (talk) 16:55, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
ITN
- I knew that tab I closed had unfinished business on it... thanks. 2008 University of Central Arkansas shootings is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.
The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2008 University of Central Arkansas shootings(2nd nomination) until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on good quality evidence, and our policies and guidelines.
Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article.
talk 14:00, 1 September 2011 (UTC)]
Hey
- Done! Both your userpage and the transcluded page are protected. Cheers, « ₣M₣ » 04:09, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Restored. m.o.p 05:21, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
]
User talk:Joshua the Independent
- My mistake - my block script auto-filled the edit summary. The block was issued due to the user's newfound will to disrupt Wikipedia intentionally. Their previous contributions are welcome, but this behaviour necessitates administrative action. m.o.p 21:52, 13 September 2011 (UTC)
Say hi to your imaginary girlfriend for me
- Well, I do love getting hate mail. Thanks for the laugh! Cheers, m.o.p 05:17, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
...further to the above lovely note, I weighed in on Calabe's talk page - there appears to be more confusion here than at first glance. bou·le·var·dier (talk) 05:19, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
Sorry to drop by again, but Silentsizzlingsausage (talk · contribs) would appear to be a duck. bou·le·var·dier (talk) 05:31, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
- No, it's not an issue! Thanks for the note, blocked. Cheers, WP:SPI. Thanks again, m.o.p 06:13, 14 September 2011 (UTC)]
I have to admit ...
- See the above section. The link is apparently a very subtle spam link that Calabe is removing, and socks are springing up to revert him. Swarm u / t 10:20, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
Moderation
- Alright, I'll make my way back. Thanks for letting me know! m.o.p 05:18, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
User:12.139.96.228
- To be honest, this case is perplexing. Half of this user's edits are constructive (mostly sourced), the other half aren't sourced - and the user won't reply to anybody. I'm also too busy to go through every edit and confirm whether or not it's good. I forgot about this for a while - I'll think about it tonight and figure something out for tomorrow. Thanks for reminding me! m.o.p 05:18, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
Whoops
- Whoops! Must not have been looking when I ran my block script. Thanks for letting me know, I've reblocked them for a far shorter (technically, an infinitely shorter) time. Cheers, m.o.p 22:58, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
Ashleyleggat404
- You're fully right in that the blanking policy covers indefinite blocks. I've removed the user's talk page rights as a result. Thanks again! m.o.p 00:28, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkback
Moderation
- If you look into this please consider whether Anupam's actions on the talk page and the entry itself are violations of WP:OWN. He's been driving off those he disagrees with by bludgening them to death with argument and heavily policing the entry claiming that there is a consensus written in stone despite many dissenting voices. Others have taken to simply calling him "the article's owner." I have had enough of this behavior personally and left him a message about it on his talk page. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:52, 20 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Dear User:Master of Puppets, the above user has misrepresented the occurrences at the article. I started another Introduction discussion at the article's talk page but User:Griswaldo has chosen to edit war over a second NPOV tag, despite the fact that one already exists in the article. He has done so despite the fact that the Introduction is being discussed in a peaceful manner at the talk page, in violation of your injunction: "We've only got consensus on this proposed versions (and loose consensus at that) - please do not attempt to subvert said consensus by making undiscussed changes." I have posted a message on his talk page about this behaviour. Nevertheless, I also do not wish to argue with the user personally and would prefer if you could go back to moderating the discussion between the two parties at the talk page. Thanks for taking the time to read this message. With regards, AnupamTalk 20:58, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- His "injunction?" Adding a neutrality tag to a specific sentence which an editor disputes the neutrality of is hardly "subverting the consensus by making undiscussed changes." Please stop wikilawyering to get your way. There is a growing consensus against your position regarding this article in general as well, despite your aggressive policing of the entry and the talk page. See ]
- I just thought that I would mention that User:Griswaldo, after seeing this message, just now decided to comment in the discussion rather than edit war against consensus further. Thanks for taking the time to read this message. With regards, AnupamTalk 21:51, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- "Edit war against consensus further?" My comment there has nothing to do with your message here. I've made three total edits to this entry ever. One was a copy edit in June, another was reverting an IP vandal, and the third was the revert of your Ownership edit. Please do not insinuate that I'm a edit warrior on this page. It is disingenuous.Griswaldo (talk) 22:08, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Thank you all for approaching me with your concerns.
- Obviously, I do not support Anupam - this is because I'm remaining a neutral third party, and, therefore, can't take sides. However, Griswaldo: please keep in mind that I did ask for all discussion to take place on the talk page. Why not just add your complaints to the talk page? It would have been much easier to discuss.
- I do agree that adding a NPOV tag, while slightly redundant, isn't horrible, but your intent seems to have been to stir discussion on that particular section, discussion that would be much more appropriate on the talk page.
- As for your and Snalwibma's concerns of Anupam trying to 'own' the article, I'm curious as to what you two mean; what 'delusions'?
- Also, Griswaldo, I don't think Anupam meant to insinuate you are an edit warrior (though this is just my take) - rather, they wanted to add the note that you've weighed in on discussion. m.o.p 22:10, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- your intent seems to have been to stir discussion on that particular section - No that's incorrect. I didn't add this tag, I simply reverted Anupam's attempt to own the page when he removed it. I agreed with JimWae's addition of the tag and found Anupam's removal to be unwarranted and a display of ownership.Griswaldo (talk) 22:16, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Note that, for all intents and purposes, reverting somebody is adding whatever is included in your edit, regardless of who put it there first. You revert a removal, you're agreeing with the edition you're reverting to - simple.
- And, if you agreed with JimWae, then we go back to what I was saying earlier - say so on the talk page. Two of you agree? Great! That's closer to consensus. But it means nothing if you express your support by reverting removals.
- Again, as I've asked multiple times, please stop saying that Anupam is owning anything without giving me evidence of it first. m.o.p 22:22, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Dear User:Master of Puppets, thank you for your reply to all of us. The reason User:Snalwibma stated that I was attempting to "own" the article was because I reverted an undiscussed removal from the article, which not only myself, but two other users objected to. In fact, two anonymous IP Addresses also reverted User:Snalwibma. I was open to compromise on the issue and stated that I would accept User:Turnsalso's compromise on the issue. I kindly request you to look at that discussion yourself and get an honest reading of it. Also, the only reason I removed the second NPOV tag was because there was already one present, which I did not remove. I only reverted the addition of a second NPOV tag once and even explained myself on the talk page. When I went to the talk page, I found rude accusations and an anti-collaborative spirit, despite the fact that I have been nothing but polite. I hope this helps. With regards, AnupamTalk 22:25, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry - I know I should not rise to the bait, but I have to object to the comment "The reason User:Snalwibma stated that I was attempting to 'own' the article was because I reverted an undiscussed removal ..." How dare Anupam presume to know what is in my mind! The reason I describe Anupam's attitude to the article as one of ownership is because that is how s/he behaves - "policing" every edit, pronouncing on whether s/he "accepts" or "rejects" it, peremptorily reverting anything s/he does not like, without discussion, presuming to know others' motives, and judging them as fit/unfit to contribute to the article. This has been going on for weeks, if not months. It is impossible to discuss the content of the article, let alone improve the text, because everything is filtered through the approval/disapproval of the article's self-appointed guardian, Anupam. tendentious or disruptive when they bring up certain issues, even when they are clearly in the majority. That is not collaborative. I stopped editing the article heavily because of those issues. I don't have any delusions that my opinion is worth more than anyone else's here, but I would think that the large number of established, experienced editors who are all saying there's a problem, would indicate something. — Jess· Δ♥ 19:45, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
Please reconsider your full protection of Militant atheist
- In case you didn't notice, I asked that people think twice about pointing fingers at each other. If you'd like to start a sockpuppetry investigation, let me know, and we can take that avenue - however, don't accuse other editors of ownership without substance. If you think Anupam is trying to own things, give me something. Diffs, edits, anything. I'll check it out for you, but right now, baseless accusations are not what I'm looking for.
- Also, notice that I protected the article with your edit being the last one. How is that validating the very person you've been reverting?
- The protection will stay until consensus is reached. m.o.p 22:19, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Because protection is what he wants quite clearly. He's stalling conversation and shouting down people on the talk page, where, if you have a look, you'll see he's clearly in the minority. Because of your "injunction" as he calls it, he also claims that no matter how many people agree with a certain change it is illegitimate. I'll be happy to gather some diffs, but my first message to you above was to please look into the situation carefully before acting on it. Did you do that and come to the conclusion that I'm wrong or did you not head that request? Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:29, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Yes, I did heed your request. I don't see any ownership behaviour from Anupam, though, being involved in multiple disputes, I didn't have the time to read every last word on the page, so you're free to provide evidence. However, from what I can see, Anupam's last proposal was supported by the majority - not to count (and I don't mean to imply that I decide where consensus lies by looking at pure numbers), but from looking at pure supports versus opposes, eight people (nine including Anupam) support while four oppose. How does that make Anupam's views a minority? m.o.p 22:37, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- It depends on what view you are talking about. The current RFC on the introduction is something that most people don't even want to engage because most people think this very entry should be split up and integrated into other entries. I reluctantly engaged the RfC just now myself. The last time the more serious question about the entry was asked, several of the new commentators were not around, and there was "no consensus" found because the opposing side was chalk full of SPAs and editors with a view that is outright hostile to atheism (which is a legitimate view to hold, but it is a minority view). Let me find you some diffs.Griswaldo (talk) 22:43, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- User:Griswaldo, that is exactly the issue: you do not want to collaborate with other users on the talk page, which is why you were reluctant to participate in the current RfC. Moreover, there were several SPA's on the side of the opposition as well, including WP:NPOV. In addition, the split was again recently discussed and the specific case to do so was refuted by several editors. As such, there was no consensus for it. I hope this helps. With regards, AnupamTalk 22:52, 20 September 2011 (UTC)]
- No. You are trying to write an article that violates WP:SYNTH because it conflates New Atheism with oppressive communist regimes and their histories of violence. That's hardly NPOV. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:59, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
Hi m.o.p., as someone who occasionally looks at that page (and then washes my hands), I just want to compliment you as having done the right thing in full protecting. By way of unsolicited advice to the involved editors, the best thing they could do is to allow The Wrong Version to sit there a good long time, and devote their energy to other things. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:54, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
]
Yes, please reconsider your full protection of
WP:RS—deserve protection against misinformed reverts. Thanks Geremia (talk) 16:12, 22 September 2011 (UTC)]
Diffs of
- I'm not really sure where the ownership is here; nowhere in our policies is it stated that a user can't promote their RFC on the subject talk page. If it's ongoing and they'd like to move it to the forefront, what's wrong with that? More so, some of your summaries seem inaccurate - in that last diff, you state that Anupam is removing images, yet I only see Anupam adding an image (the peace dove that's at the top of the page). Also, you use repeating examples. m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Well clearly the last diff was wrong. Thanks for the vote of confidence. There are no repeat examples nor inaccurate summaries, just a mistaken copy paste of the second to last diff to the last position as well. I have fixed it. Cheers.
- Using "consensus claims from one RfC to reject changes made to article content
- Same as above. Using the "consensus" bludgeon to get his way. Please note that clearly we ought to edit by consensus, but this consensus is highly disputed, and IMO not there in the first place. The real problem is the way in which Anupam decides to use it like a trump card to remove changes he doesn't like. Ask yourself if all changes post "consensus" have been removed or just the ones Anupam decided he wanted removed.
Master of Puppets do you need more diffs or is this enough?Griswaldo (talk) 23:31, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Well I need more diffs because your "evidence" so far looks like a desperate attempt to incriminate an editor who has been very successful in persuading his colleagues to adopt his proposals. Anupam has presented his proposals, argued the merits and persuaded many editors. Anything you want to tell us about why you're having difficulty doing likewise? – Lionel (talk) 06:02, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- I don't see this is as conclusive evidence, either. And, it should be said - if people are editing against established consensus, then people are free to re-evaluate consensus, but edit-warring against it doesn't make much sense. m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- If not ownership then what is this - [28], [29], [30]? He removes two RfCs started by another editor, and revolving around the question that many of us actually find to be the fundamental question to answer regarding the entry. Then he edit wars to keep these RfCs off the page, claiming again to have some sort of authority stemming from your prior actions. If you aren't willing to do something here I'm going to another administrator and I'm going to ask for your initial "consensus," your strong arm administrating, and your lack of action here to be reviewed as well. Thanks.Griswaldo (talk) 17:08, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Anupam has already apologized for reverting those RfC additions, and we've moved past it. He also didn't claim to have administrative authority, but was waiting for my approval. We've cleared this up, it's not an issue. So no, I'm not going to take any action (as I've said here and on ANI). Now, if you'd like to threaten me and tell me that, since I'm not cooperating with your wills, you'll go to another administrator, that's fine - as I've said, you can seek outside opinions - but remember to keep a cool head, because borderline threats are not appreciated. m.o.p 21:49, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- It was not a threat, "borderline" or otherwise. You are conveniently ignoring a growing number of voices who are all saying the same thing - there is an ownership problem here. The deletion issue has not been "cleared up" as far as I'm concerned. Whenever it is mentioned Anupam insists that he did not "unilaterally" delete the RfCs from the page, which is a blatant distortion, since that is exactly what he did. He continues to act as a policeman at the page, and yes he does continue to cite your authority. Did you bother to read the many diffs I posted above in the second two sections? I will quote three random examples from those I provided for you if you want.
- When he first deleted the two RfCs he wrote: "rv - see discussion with reviewing administrator; approval needed to start another RfC while one is already occurring."
- When he deleted a fact tag that JimWae put into the lede: "rv excessive tagging per talk; tag is already extant in header; do not subvert previous consensus but gain consensus for potential additions per administrative notice"
- When he rejected another recent change to the entry: "accepted edits by User:Jkhwiki; rv removal of longstanding referenced content - see discussion on talk page and gain consensus for action per administrative injunction"
- In talk page comments and in edit summaries he consistently does the same thing. He refers to your authority, either directly or indirectly through your "notice" or your "injunction" as he likes to call it. I never said the claimed to have administrative authority, I said that he's using your authority, by way of your comments, such as the closure of the AfD to bully people. Do you deny that he citing your comments, because if you do then I must have fabricated those quotes. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:32, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
If you say "If you don't do A, then I'm going to go and do B", that's a threat. Anyway, that's not the issue - we've already covered all the issues with the RfC reverting, and Anupam won't do it again. Why keep raising hell over it?
We've already covered everything you bring up. And no, I'm not denying anything. I'm just saying this, and it's very simple: I don't think there has been any blatant ownership here. That's my judgment. If you disagree, again, feel free to raise this with another administrator or on ANI. m.o.p 23:12, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Regarding the new RFC, I still think there has not passed yet too much time since the last discussion about splitting the article. As far as I knew, repeating these sorts of debates (like splitting, deleting, renaming) before a larger amount of time has passed (like 6 months) is usually discouraged. And as others have also argued earlier, even if having multiple RFCs is possible, it's not very useful, and the new RFC seems to discourage further discussion about improving the lead introduction. So preventing multiple RFCs (and also a RFC about an issue debated not too long ago) does not look to me like evidence of bad faith intentions. Cody7777777 (talk) 21:37, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Cody, would you mind linking me to the previous RfC on splitting? m.o.p 21:49, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- The previous attempt to split the article can be found here. Cody7777777 (talk) 21:55, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Response
Yes, it does. Thanks, m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Dear User:Master of Puppets, I just noticed that User:Binksternet started another RfC while a current one is occurring. Is this appropriate? I reverted the addition motioning for one until your response is confirmed. If it is acceptable, then I apologize and will revert my edit. I look forward to your response. With regards, AnupamTalk 15:14, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'll form my reply on ANI. m.o.p 17:12, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- When you do please take into account my comment just above, regarding Anupam's edit warring to remove talk page comments (namely these RfCs) posted by others on the talk page. If you still don't think this is WP:OWN then clearly other administrators are needed here.Griswaldo (talk) 17:15, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Dear User:Griswaldo, how is going to a neutral mediator to address the issue owning the article? I acknowledge that the article is in dispute and as a result, I am asking an administrator for advice in this matter, NOT handling things on my own, as you have done by edit warring. Your WP:OWN allegations have not only been dismissed by this administrator, but by several other users, including, User:Lionelt, User:Cody7777777 and User:NYyankees51. Thanks, AnupamTalk 17:27, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- In reply to Griswaldo: reverting the RfCs was a mistake, but we've cleared that up now. As Anupam has stated at ANI, the intent was not to discourage discussion. If you think my judgment is compromised, you're welcome to seek another administrator's input. m.o.p 21:04, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- And as further evidence of WP:OWN, see this. Anupam adds a comment to everything that anyone else says, as if he/she is the owner of the article and everyone else is a subordinate contributor. This particular instance is pretty benign (although it clutters up the talk page with an unnecessary comment that merely says "I agree"), but I do think that Anupam at least needs to learn how to avoid giving the appearance of thinking he/she owns the article, and to desist from chipping in and saying the same thing over and over again, which almost makes meaningful discussion impossible! SNALWIBMA ( talk - contribs ) 17:31, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- While the input is appreciated, as I've said before, making allegations of ownership without hard evidence isn't going to get us anywhere. Anupam is not stopping others from discussing changes or forming consensus, and that's all that matters - refactoring the talk page or commenting on an issue is not against policy, and I'm not going to tell someone to stop editing because it "looks" like they're doing something wrong. As said above, you're welcome to request another administrator's insight if you wish. m.o.p 21:04, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
COIHi
you've helped me out before, with a conflict of interest problem, so having much more experience than me on wikipedia, I thought I would be bold enough to ask again for help.
Similar problem to last, User_talk:Hobbycraft is editing the HOBBYCRAFT article and making changes that aren't citably right. I think the user name suggest and history suggests a conflict of interest case.
Can you please, speak to them addressing this issue.
Thank you very much for your help.
Markcoulter50 (talk) 22:27, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
- I've blocked that user for username violations. Thanks a lot for letting me know! Keep up the great work, m.o.p 23:00, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkbackcausa sui (talk) 18:47, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Hello. You have a new message at causa sui's talk page. causa sui (talk) 20:54, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Problematic editing on militant atheism
- I hope it's not considered defamatory to repeat the final line: "I merely present the diffs above, and let others draw their own conclusions. Is this a duck? Does it quack? You decide.". Unfortunately, the concerned community no longer has that opportunity. What did you decide on their behalf? Does this duck quack, or not? bobrayner (talk) 15:42, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- It's not your wording, it's the very idea of it. Going to what's allegorically a public place and shouting, "Hey, everybody, this man is a criminal!" is one step below blatantly forming a lynch mob. As I've said, I have no problem with your wording or evidence, just your location of choice. Wikipedia is not, unfortunately, a democracy - letting others draw their conclusions and voice their opinions is not how a sockpuppet investigation works.
- So yes, please don't go restoring any of that section. We're not discussing editors, we're discussing the content they produce. Anything else has a sub-board to deal with it (like WP:SPI).
- Hopefully that clears things up! I'll be happy to answer any more questions should you have them. Cheers, m.o.p 15:48, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Hello User:Bobrayner, I noticed the section you created on the militant atheism talk page. If you do feel the way you do about User:Turnsalso and the anonymous IP Addresses, you can take this up with WP:SPI. Thanks, AnupamTalk 15:52, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
Are you kidding my MoP? Above your write: Going to what's allegorically a public place and shouting, "Hey, everybody, this man is a criminal!" is one step below blatantly forming a lynch mob. AND We're not discussing editors, we're discussing the content they produce. Yet you call this edit by Lionelt "good faith," at WQA? MoP, I would not ask you to agree with me or to like me, but can I please ask you not to insult me with these double standards.Griswaldo (talk) 16:18, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
]
- Griswaldo, I mean no offense when I say this, but I'd appreciate it if you stayed out of discussions which didn't involve you. Also, please don't put words in my mouth. Thanks, m.o.p 16:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I have not put words in your mouth. You said that you would assume good faith about Lionel. If you "assume good faith" it means you assume his edits were in "good faith." If you did not intend that meaning I suggest you reconsider what you wrote. Also, if you want me to "stay out of discussion which don't involve me" then I suggest your first order of business should be to do the same thing yourself. You decided to post at WQA, when there was no mention of you or anything you've done in that thread. Once again, I expect people not to practice double standards. So as long as you cannot show me that you will treat me as you ask to be treated yourself, I will not oblige you. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:21, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Please stop bickering. I'm not quite sure what you're trying to accomplish here. I've already explained what I meant when I said assuming good faith, but I'll explain again: I assumed that Lionelt was not hounding or deliberately haranguing you. I did not say, at any point, that his edit content was good faith, and I've told him not to edit like that again. So please stop accusing me of saying things I haven't said.
- Also, I posted in WQA because, as a mediator in this case and as an administrator, it's my duty to weigh in on administrative noticeboards, especially when the case is an ongoing discussion I've been participating in for three months. It is not your duty to weigh in on discussions on my talk page that don't concern you. I hope the distinction is clear here. m.o.p 20:33, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I think you are confused about something. Content is never good faith. "Editing in good faith" and "good faith edits" refers to the intent of the editor always. It has nothing to do with content. My assumption that you also felt the edits were appropriate comes from the fact that you did not say they weren't appropriate and clearly feel that his intentions were good. If you'd like to set the record straight on that issue you still can. I've asked you twice now to discuss the actual edits that are the focal point of the thread. Also, I moved the thread to ANI, per the suggestion of the editor who marked it "resolved."Griswaldo (talk) 20:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- See Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#User:Lionelt_--_following_my_past_edits_to_drum_up_support_against_me. FYI, I copy pasted the entire discussion because both you and Collect were critical of my initial post and I thought it was the right thing to do to preserve that criticism in the record of the conversation. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:43, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- In reply to your first paragraph: I'm going to give up now, as it seems you're misunderstanding most of what I type, but you're the one who stated that the content was not good faith (as you said, not appropriate), and I agreed - I referred to his intent in replying to you, and said that I assumed good faith in his motives, not his replies. I can't really say that in a clearer way, so my apologies if it's hard to understand. Also, as I've already said, I've left a message for Lionelt about his edits, so clearly I do not feel they're appropriate. m.o.p 20:57, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I, too, find these double standards vexing.
- Which diff is defamatory?
- I had hitherto thought that people on the article talkpage might like to be aware of potential problems with votestacking on the article talkpage (and 3rr evasion, of course). Would it be permitted to add a link to that list of diffs when it's in a different place, or would you consider that defamatory too? bobrayner (talk) 16:23, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- As I said, the information is not defamatory, but the way it's presented is - we have specific processes available to pursue should one feel there are sockpuppets about. However, calling someone out with the intent of informing the community is overstepping your authority and damaging to the accused's character. Also, there's no way a community discussion about whether or not one editor is a sockpuppet can end in anything other than a sockpuppet investigation anyway.
- So, in closing, please don't bring issues like this to the talk page. If you're concerned about votestacking, take it to the appropriate venue - if your concerns are validated, we'll take measures against said puppets. Cheers, m.o.p 16:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I am very disappointed that it's no longer permissible to raise problems with article-editing on the article talkpage. Previous concerns about sockpuppetry were simply ignored; the difference this time is that it's backed by lots of diffs.
- I'm fairly confident that the people concerned have sufficient technical nous to make checkuser draw a blank. And, let's be entirely honest, within minutes of me creating an SPI, an admin of the right persuasion will be getting an email suggesting that an SPI needs their attention. And SPI does not see offsite coordination by a facebook group &c. Finally, any null result at SPI will be used at the article in much the same way as previous administrative decisions have been. So, I do not believe that an SPI will improve either the article, or the encyclopædia as a whole. bobrayner (talk) 17:08, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- If you don't think the pre-existing methods set in place for situations like this are sufficient, you can always raise that concern at the village pump or suggest a policy revision - however, SPI is the venue for these requests, and the only venue. The talk page can not substitute. m.o.p 17:10, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
76.228.226.122Thank you for blocking the anonymous user, who is being counterproductive and rude. (although I think the block should have been one week, but I guess ok at least)
Can you also please try to hide the edit summaries of these edits if possible?
This and
this
Thanks and regards, talk 05:04, 26 September 2011 (UTC)]
- I'll extend the block if this behaviour continues after the block period is over.
- As for the edit summaries, those don't warrant hiding - I apologize for their content, but they don't meet the criteria of what I should remove. It's best just to ignore them for now. Cheers, m.o.p 05:13, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
- Okay, good to know, if I did nothing wrong, no permanent block will be enforced. The IP does not volunteer on WP as an admin and so the disproportionately out of line comments and threats of his should be ignored. --talk 05:19, 26 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Sounds good. We only hide extremely offensive revisions; milder ones stay in the edit history. Thanks again for bringing this to our attention! Cheers, m.o.p 05:31, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
Email
Jasper Deng (talk) 05:29, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
- Reading. talk) 06:00, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Bad Girls Club
- I've blocked Junebea for 2 days for disregarding warnings. m.o.p 20:30, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks for helping :) Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 21:06, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkback
- And again.Griswaldo (talk) 04:24, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
- And again ... but maybe the last. You can settle this question once and for all. See the talk page.Griswaldo (talk) 06:09, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'm sure I'm not alone in wanting to hear your replies to the last responses posed to you at that page. IMO, I don't know why you went down the road you did, but as far as I can tell you're blatantly misrepesenting facts about your own actions when people are brining concerns to you. You might think that since you closed the RfC the matter is settled, but it is not. You're actions have not made my life any more pleasant in the last few days vis-a-vis trying to deal with Anupam's disruption and I think you owe us all answers. So please revisit this thread and deal with the open questions. Thanks.Griswaldo (talk) 02:19, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
- I invite you to stop asking the same question again and again. This would be appreciated. Thanks, m.o.p 02:33, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Block question
- No, I just block obviously bad-faith accounts on sight. Advertising/spam accounts fall under that category. m.o.p 00:37, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Thanks
- Thank you. I've unlocked the article for whatever may come. If I'm needed again, feel free to let me know. Thanks for the kind words again, m.o.p 05:12, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
reminder
- We're still waiting to see if the user understands COI policy (per Ed's question). I'll prod the user and see if they'll answer. talk) 19:20, 30 September 2011 (UTC)]
Nextel logo deleted
- Mmm, good point. What's the link to the logo in question? m.o.p 01:33, 2 October 2011 (UTC)
Support of Sage City SymphonyYou deleted this page before I had a chance to go back in and add the stuff that you wanted to see, including the links within Wikipedia to important composers such as Lou Callabro (who started this orchestra and cites it in his Wikipedia page) and Susan Hurley whose work we premiered (SC is also mentioned in her Wikipedia entry). (Let alone links about the works we have performed.) And we have a web site at www.sagecitysymphony.org, have existed for over 35 yrs and are a significant cultural resource in the Bennington area such that we receive grants from local, statewide and national foundations.
I broke my wrist last weekend and am doing one-handed pecking so it'll take me a few days to get that loaded in. We are going out for a bit now, but I would appreciate your undeleting the page so that I don't have to re-invent the starting part when I go back in tomorrow to add links. Or delete it entirely so that I can start fresh - at this point either would work as long as I can start some serious work on it tomorrow. I am the webmaster by the way, so I do have access to content and more links.
Thank you, Celia Murray — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.228.127.119 (talk) 14:22, 1 October 2011 (UTC)
- It looks like fixed everything up. Best of luck, m.o.p 01:35, 2 October 2011 (UTC)]
Reply on Deterence's talk page
MA
After the beating you took you deserve a cold one--on me! Thanks for being fair and balanced – Lionel (talk) 03:55, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
- Hey, thanks! Glad to help out. :) m.o.p 03:56, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
Deletion of Mau5trap Recordings
--neocharles (talk) 07:33, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Existence does not equal notability - the subject has to be notable to get a Wikipedia page. m.o.p 12:05, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
Questoin re: AIV
- Addendum, actually, I read it very clearly in WP:VANDNOT: "Uploading or using material on Wikipedia in violation of Wikipedia's copyright policies is prohibited, but is not vandalism unless the user does so maliciously or fails to heed warnings." So if a person fails to heed warnings it is vandalism. My mistake here was that I only warned once. --Muhandes (talk) 12:29, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Eh, technically it is vandalism, but the user seems to be trying to improve the Wikipedia - that desire to help is misplaced in this case, as they seem to think that using copyrighted content is actually better. Weird. For most cases, yes, you should report copyvio to AIV - as long as they've been warned sufficiently. m.o.p 12:42, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- OK, he now did it again and the time stamp is after your last warning. Is it vandalism now? --Muhandes (talk) 12:32, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Yeah, if they're outright ignoring warnings. I've blocked for three days. m.o.p 12:40, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
Classmusic
- Oh, I know. But if somebody's lied to my face about using another account - and to other editors working on the article - I'm not about to let them go without a repercussion or two. I'd like Almost-instinct and Voceditnore to look over the article and fix up anything shifty. Also, I'd like Classmusic to respond to my warning, instead of blanking it and ignoring like they have to the above-named editors.
- So, in short, I know that COI doesn't bar editing, but it's enough of a concern that, given the user's recent behaviour, I'll stop them from doing anything until we've figured things out. This isn't too rouge-y, is it? I didn't hear that. Perhaps he is unaware of the sockpuppet investigation findings. Anyhow it seems that DeltaQuad has also blocked the Classmusic account. I left a note on his page about using the unblock template, but re-iterated that he needs to read the COI and Autobiography guidelines and stick to them scrupulously, if he gets unblocked. In the Opera and Classical Music WikiProjects, we get a lot of articles for performers, ensembles, etc. created by their agents and PR people, and often themselves. In my experience, the best I can hope for after one of these tussles is that they'll edit their article according to the guidelines in future. I have yet to find a single one who has ever contributed anything else to Wikipedia. Their only interest in the project is as a PR tool. Having said that, at least it results (after much red-pencilling from other editors) in one new article on a notable subject that we didn't have before and in a small way redresses the pop culture systemic bias here. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 13:40, 5 October 2011 (UTC)]
Danish election
- Never mind, it's been pulled by another admin. All the best, Jenks24 (talk) 11:03, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry about that! I was busy all day and didn't get your message until now. Thanks for letting me know, though! Cheers, m.o.p 19:51, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
3RRHey there! :)
Well WP:CRYSTAL has wined down, however, there's currently a
The Bad Girls Club (season 7). I have notified the two users [32], [33]. The evidence can be found here. They are having an edit-conflict on how the "Duration of cast" should be presented. Since there's no rules regarding anything like that, and it was made up about a year ago, I couldn't warned them to stop their e/c with anything except the 3RR rule. Maybe they need an admin to tell them to stop, so that's why I came to you :) Thanks, Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 01:17, 6 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Temporary page protection requested. Calabe1992 (talk) 01:29, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
OK, this thing with the militant atheism page is impossibleThese guys are incredible... I could dig up diffs to show you how they revert and wikilawyer even the SMALLEST attempt to move the article closer to NPOV. But that would take a long time for you to read. How about I show you this instead:
These guys are utterly without scruples. Who in their right mind would remove the NPOV dispute tag when heated arguments have been raging for weeks and NO moves whatsoever have been made to fix the article? Oh right, that would be someone in their right mind who is running a propaganda platform.
Anyway... I wanted to ask your advice on what to do. These guys are impossible to work with. Most of the other editors have given up and refuse to put this page on their watchlist. So what to do then? Request formal mediation? Articles for deletion? Something else?
Me and the other editors would like to see the page replaced with a disambiguation page... since literally ALL the content has already been covered (better) in Criticism of atheism, State atheism and New Atheism.
Obhave (talk) 13:21, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
- Hello User:Master of Puppets. I noticed this conversation and thought I might add that an NPOV policy. Obhave (talk) 13:11, 15 July 2011 (UTC)]
- One more thing, m.o.p... my opponents are currently twisting your words to make it look as if you were scolding user:Mann_jess all along. Obhave (talk) 14:42, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
User:Jasper Deng page protection
- No worries! m.o.p 19:35, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
Is there a procedure for brutal uncollaborated editing with a destructive intent?I noticed that you recently had problems with proposed brutal editing by Peter S Strempel. Although he has been more sensible on your project in the end (possibly because of your administrator status?) he has not been so with regard to the astrology project pages to which he made a similar 'razor-promise'. Could you please see this Afd request which is one of three he made for major 'history of astrology' articles within the last hour, with a promise on another important page that any comment which is not refrences within 7 days will be removed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Babylonian_astrology
Is there anything that can be done about this officially to stop him wreaking havoc with content whilst he knows that the small group of editors providing content on these pages are already stretched to the limit trying to keep up with what needs to be done? I don't understand what drives some people to want to edit WP like this, but I think it is entriely the result of his ego-stress that when he proposed an edit for a passage, no one favoured it. Hope you can help or advise Zac Δ talk 01:15, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks! assume good faith; I believe that Peter is simply trying to help improve Wikipedia. While his methods may be lacking in some areas, he has displayed a pretty decent grasp on the policies he's trying to enforce.
- However, I agree that he shouldn't be making any changes if they're not discussed with the community first. Do you mind pulling up a few diffs of where he went against consensus? I'll approach him with your concern then. Thanks, m.o.p 03:57, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
- Actually there hasn't been any significant content dispute with Peter. He proposed a change to a section edit which wasn't a very good proposition and a few editors commented but without rancur, and I added a new section post immediately afterwards to point out the proiposed change would contradict with how the definition was given correctly at a later point in the article, outlining how I understood WP policy expected the main astrology article to pull its own content together, along with its summarised content from its daughter pages. Peter never responded to this but other editors started working in that direction immediately. Then, without further discussion or comment, Peter came back four days later to announce an intention to take his 'word razor' to all unreferenced assertions on the main astrology page, its sub-pages, and the portal page itself, to ensure his perceived disagreement was not circumvented in pages he viewed as content forks (I'm still not sure what he means by that). My response to that can be seen - a perfectly reasonable request for him to do what he felt was most productive, but consider that citation-tagging was the way to go. I also placed comments on his talk-page, which you can read if you are interested. That he erupted into a frenzy of AfD requests last night says something, I think, about his unwillingness to discuss and engage in other views. Most of his posts appear as new section declarations that don't appear to have considered the responses other editors give him.
- I've summarised this in the ANI request Dougweller started. The deletion requests were a step too far IMO, and I'm concerned that Peter would spring to such drastic measures in reaction to what he perceives to be me not allowing him to do what he wants to do. I'll be away for a few days so I'm tying up my WP activity now. That underlines my concern that he intends to take such drastic action with only one week's notice of intent. Thanks for looking into this. It would be good if something could be proposed to stop huge problems before they occur. 10:35, 22 July 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zachariel (talk • contribs
)
- One last request. I have just noticed that a related complaint, which is quite serious but has been sidetracked (deliberatly IMO) by Peter's suggestions that I have prevented him from doing what he wants, has been collapsed as "going nowehere" by an unsympathetic editor.
- "Its ben here several days and no admin has even sniffed at a block or ban - clearly you're not going to get admin action. So this should got to WP:DR or WP:RFCU if you want to take it further. I've boldly collapsed this, though I won't be surprised if someone uncollapses it"
- If you can find the time could you at least take a look at that related problem, and consider uncollapsing it, because the issues are serious and have gone beyond the point where Dispute resolution are appropriate. I will be away and have nothing more to add, but the problems identified still remain. Zac Δ talk 10:58, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
What to do?
- I've started a threat at ANI. Those AfDs are purely pointy and if no one objects I'll close them. talk) 06:11, 22 July 2011 (UTC)]
- Replied there. m.o.p 08:20, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
Talk Page on Militant Atheism - Introduction Section
- The update is appreciated, thanks very much. I've been dealing with life for the past two weeks, but I'll be back to close that discussion tonight or tomorrow. Thanks again, m.o.p 22:03, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
- Just bringing this up again, given the current state of this section. I believe the discussion will be archived automatically if not closed. I'm sorry if I sound pushy with you having a lot on your plate of late. If you would prefer, I could alert User:Fastily instead. Turnsalso (talk) 16:55, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
ITN
- I knew that tab I closed had unfinished business on it... thanks. 2008 University of Central Arkansas shootings is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.
The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2008 University of Central Arkansas shootings(2nd nomination) until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on good quality evidence, and our policies and guidelines.
Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article.
talk 14:00, 1 September 2011 (UTC)]
Hey
- Done! Both your userpage and the transcluded page are protected. Cheers, « ₣M₣ » 04:09, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Restored. m.o.p 05:21, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
]
User talk:Joshua the Independent
- My mistake - my block script auto-filled the edit summary. The block was issued due to the user's newfound will to disrupt Wikipedia intentionally. Their previous contributions are welcome, but this behaviour necessitates administrative action. m.o.p 21:52, 13 September 2011 (UTC)
Say hi to your imaginary girlfriend for me
- Well, I do love getting hate mail. Thanks for the laugh! Cheers, m.o.p 05:17, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
...further to the above lovely note, I weighed in on Calabe's talk page - there appears to be more confusion here than at first glance. bou·le·var·dier (talk) 05:19, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
Sorry to drop by again, but Silentsizzlingsausage (talk · contribs) would appear to be a duck. bou·le·var·dier (talk) 05:31, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
- No, it's not an issue! Thanks for the note, blocked. Cheers, WP:SPI. Thanks again, m.o.p 06:13, 14 September 2011 (UTC)]
I have to admit ...
- See the above section. The link is apparently a very subtle spam link that Calabe is removing, and socks are springing up to revert him. Swarm u / t 10:20, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
Moderation
- Alright, I'll make my way back. Thanks for letting me know! m.o.p 05:18, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
User:12.139.96.228
- To be honest, this case is perplexing. Half of this user's edits are constructive (mostly sourced), the other half aren't sourced - and the user won't reply to anybody. I'm also too busy to go through every edit and confirm whether or not it's good. I forgot about this for a while - I'll think about it tonight and figure something out for tomorrow. Thanks for reminding me! m.o.p 05:18, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
Whoops
- Whoops! Must not have been looking when I ran my block script. Thanks for letting me know, I've reblocked them for a far shorter (technically, an infinitely shorter) time. Cheers, m.o.p 22:58, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
Ashleyleggat404
- You're fully right in that the blanking policy covers indefinite blocks. I've removed the user's talk page rights as a result. Thanks again! m.o.p 00:28, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkback
Moderation
- If you look into this please consider whether Anupam's actions on the talk page and the entry itself are violations of WP:OWN. He's been driving off those he disagrees with by bludgening them to death with argument and heavily policing the entry claiming that there is a consensus written in stone despite many dissenting voices. Others have taken to simply calling him "the article's owner." I have had enough of this behavior personally and left him a message about it on his talk page. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:52, 20 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Dear User:Master of Puppets, the above user has misrepresented the occurrences at the article. I started another Introduction discussion at the article's talk page but User:Griswaldo has chosen to edit war over a second NPOV tag, despite the fact that one already exists in the article. He has done so despite the fact that the Introduction is being discussed in a peaceful manner at the talk page, in violation of your injunction: "We've only got consensus on this proposed versions (and loose consensus at that) - please do not attempt to subvert said consensus by making undiscussed changes." I have posted a message on his talk page about this behaviour. Nevertheless, I also do not wish to argue with the user personally and would prefer if you could go back to moderating the discussion between the two parties at the talk page. Thanks for taking the time to read this message. With regards, AnupamTalk 20:58, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- His "injunction?" Adding a neutrality tag to a specific sentence which an editor disputes the neutrality of is hardly "subverting the consensus by making undiscussed changes." Please stop wikilawyering to get your way. There is a growing consensus against your position regarding this article in general as well, despite your aggressive policing of the entry and the talk page. See ]
- I just thought that I would mention that User:Griswaldo, after seeing this message, just now decided to comment in the discussion rather than edit war against consensus further. Thanks for taking the time to read this message. With regards, AnupamTalk 21:51, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- "Edit war against consensus further?" My comment there has nothing to do with your message here. I've made three total edits to this entry ever. One was a copy edit in June, another was reverting an IP vandal, and the third was the revert of your Ownership edit. Please do not insinuate that I'm a edit warrior on this page. It is disingenuous.Griswaldo (talk) 22:08, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Thank you all for approaching me with your concerns.
- Obviously, I do not support Anupam - this is because I'm remaining a neutral third party, and, therefore, can't take sides. However, Griswaldo: please keep in mind that I did ask for all discussion to take place on the talk page. Why not just add your complaints to the talk page? It would have been much easier to discuss.
- I do agree that adding a NPOV tag, while slightly redundant, isn't horrible, but your intent seems to have been to stir discussion on that particular section, discussion that would be much more appropriate on the talk page.
- As for your and Snalwibma's concerns of Anupam trying to 'own' the article, I'm curious as to what you two mean; what 'delusions'?
- Also, Griswaldo, I don't think Anupam meant to insinuate you are an edit warrior (though this is just my take) - rather, they wanted to add the note that you've weighed in on discussion. m.o.p 22:10, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- your intent seems to have been to stir discussion on that particular section - No that's incorrect. I didn't add this tag, I simply reverted Anupam's attempt to own the page when he removed it. I agreed with JimWae's addition of the tag and found Anupam's removal to be unwarranted and a display of ownership.Griswaldo (talk) 22:16, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Note that, for all intents and purposes, reverting somebody is adding whatever is included in your edit, regardless of who put it there first. You revert a removal, you're agreeing with the edition you're reverting to - simple.
- And, if you agreed with JimWae, then we go back to what I was saying earlier - say so on the talk page. Two of you agree? Great! That's closer to consensus. But it means nothing if you express your support by reverting removals.
- Again, as I've asked multiple times, please stop saying that Anupam is owning anything without giving me evidence of it first. m.o.p 22:22, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Dear User:Master of Puppets, thank you for your reply to all of us. The reason User:Snalwibma stated that I was attempting to "own" the article was because I reverted an undiscussed removal from the article, which not only myself, but two other users objected to. In fact, two anonymous IP Addresses also reverted User:Snalwibma. I was open to compromise on the issue and stated that I would accept User:Turnsalso's compromise on the issue. I kindly request you to look at that discussion yourself and get an honest reading of it. Also, the only reason I removed the second NPOV tag was because there was already one present, which I did not remove. I only reverted the addition of a second NPOV tag once and even explained myself on the talk page. When I went to the talk page, I found rude accusations and an anti-collaborative spirit, despite the fact that I have been nothing but polite. I hope this helps. With regards, AnupamTalk 22:25, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry - I know I should not rise to the bait, but I have to object to the comment "The reason User:Snalwibma stated that I was attempting to 'own' the article was because I reverted an undiscussed removal ..." How dare Anupam presume to know what is in my mind! The reason I describe Anupam's attitude to the article as one of ownership is because that is how s/he behaves - "policing" every edit, pronouncing on whether s/he "accepts" or "rejects" it, peremptorily reverting anything s/he does not like, without discussion, presuming to know others' motives, and judging them as fit/unfit to contribute to the article. This has been going on for weeks, if not months. It is impossible to discuss the content of the article, let alone improve the text, because everything is filtered through the approval/disapproval of the article's self-appointed guardian, Anupam. tendentious or disruptive when they bring up certain issues, even when they are clearly in the majority. That is not collaborative. I stopped editing the article heavily because of those issues. I don't have any delusions that my opinion is worth more than anyone else's here, but I would think that the large number of established, experienced editors who are all saying there's a problem, would indicate something. — Jess· Δ♥ 19:45, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
Please reconsider your full protection of Militant atheist
- In case you didn't notice, I asked that people think twice about pointing fingers at each other. If you'd like to start a sockpuppetry investigation, let me know, and we can take that avenue - however, don't accuse other editors of ownership without substance. If you think Anupam is trying to own things, give me something. Diffs, edits, anything. I'll check it out for you, but right now, baseless accusations are not what I'm looking for.
- Also, notice that I protected the article with your edit being the last one. How is that validating the very person you've been reverting?
- The protection will stay until consensus is reached. m.o.p 22:19, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Because protection is what he wants quite clearly. He's stalling conversation and shouting down people on the talk page, where, if you have a look, you'll see he's clearly in the minority. Because of your "injunction" as he calls it, he also claims that no matter how many people agree with a certain change it is illegitimate. I'll be happy to gather some diffs, but my first message to you above was to please look into the situation carefully before acting on it. Did you do that and come to the conclusion that I'm wrong or did you not head that request? Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:29, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Yes, I did heed your request. I don't see any ownership behaviour from Anupam, though, being involved in multiple disputes, I didn't have the time to read every last word on the page, so you're free to provide evidence. However, from what I can see, Anupam's last proposal was supported by the majority - not to count (and I don't mean to imply that I decide where consensus lies by looking at pure numbers), but from looking at pure supports versus opposes, eight people (nine including Anupam) support while four oppose. How does that make Anupam's views a minority? m.o.p 22:37, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- It depends on what view you are talking about. The current RFC on the introduction is something that most people don't even want to engage because most people think this very entry should be split up and integrated into other entries. I reluctantly engaged the RfC just now myself. The last time the more serious question about the entry was asked, several of the new commentators were not around, and there was "no consensus" found because the opposing side was chalk full of SPAs and editors with a view that is outright hostile to atheism (which is a legitimate view to hold, but it is a minority view). Let me find you some diffs.Griswaldo (talk) 22:43, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- User:Griswaldo, that is exactly the issue: you do not want to collaborate with other users on the talk page, which is why you were reluctant to participate in the current RfC. Moreover, there were several SPA's on the side of the opposition as well, including WP:NPOV. In addition, the split was again recently discussed and the specific case to do so was refuted by several editors. As such, there was no consensus for it. I hope this helps. With regards, AnupamTalk 22:52, 20 September 2011 (UTC)]
- No. You are trying to write an article that violates WP:SYNTH because it conflates New Atheism with oppressive communist regimes and their histories of violence. That's hardly NPOV. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:59, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
Hi m.o.p., as someone who occasionally looks at that page (and then washes my hands), I just want to compliment you as having done the right thing in full protecting. By way of unsolicited advice to the involved editors, the best thing they could do is to allow The Wrong Version to sit there a good long time, and devote their energy to other things. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:54, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
]
Yes, please reconsider your full protection of
WP:RS—deserve protection against misinformed reverts. Thanks Geremia (talk) 16:12, 22 September 2011 (UTC)]
Diffs of
- I'm not really sure where the ownership is here; nowhere in our policies is it stated that a user can't promote their RFC on the subject talk page. If it's ongoing and they'd like to move it to the forefront, what's wrong with that? More so, some of your summaries seem inaccurate - in that last diff, you state that Anupam is removing images, yet I only see Anupam adding an image (the peace dove that's at the top of the page). Also, you use repeating examples. m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Well clearly the last diff was wrong. Thanks for the vote of confidence. There are no repeat examples nor inaccurate summaries, just a mistaken copy paste of the second to last diff to the last position as well. I have fixed it. Cheers.
- Using "consensus claims from one RfC to reject changes made to article content
- Same as above. Using the "consensus" bludgeon to get his way. Please note that clearly we ought to edit by consensus, but this consensus is highly disputed, and IMO not there in the first place. The real problem is the way in which Anupam decides to use it like a trump card to remove changes he doesn't like. Ask yourself if all changes post "consensus" have been removed or just the ones Anupam decided he wanted removed.
Master of Puppets do you need more diffs or is this enough?Griswaldo (talk) 23:31, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Well I need more diffs because your "evidence" so far looks like a desperate attempt to incriminate an editor who has been very successful in persuading his colleagues to adopt his proposals. Anupam has presented his proposals, argued the merits and persuaded many editors. Anything you want to tell us about why you're having difficulty doing likewise? – Lionel (talk) 06:02, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- I don't see this is as conclusive evidence, either. And, it should be said - if people are editing against established consensus, then people are free to re-evaluate consensus, but edit-warring against it doesn't make much sense. m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- If not ownership then what is this - [28], [29], [30]? He removes two RfCs started by another editor, and revolving around the question that many of us actually find to be the fundamental question to answer regarding the entry. Then he edit wars to keep these RfCs off the page, claiming again to have some sort of authority stemming from your prior actions. If you aren't willing to do something here I'm going to another administrator and I'm going to ask for your initial "consensus," your strong arm administrating, and your lack of action here to be reviewed as well. Thanks.Griswaldo (talk) 17:08, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Anupam has already apologized for reverting those RfC additions, and we've moved past it. He also didn't claim to have administrative authority, but was waiting for my approval. We've cleared this up, it's not an issue. So no, I'm not going to take any action (as I've said here and on ANI). Now, if you'd like to threaten me and tell me that, since I'm not cooperating with your wills, you'll go to another administrator, that's fine - as I've said, you can seek outside opinions - but remember to keep a cool head, because borderline threats are not appreciated. m.o.p 21:49, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- It was not a threat, "borderline" or otherwise. You are conveniently ignoring a growing number of voices who are all saying the same thing - there is an ownership problem here. The deletion issue has not been "cleared up" as far as I'm concerned. Whenever it is mentioned Anupam insists that he did not "unilaterally" delete the RfCs from the page, which is a blatant distortion, since that is exactly what he did. He continues to act as a policeman at the page, and yes he does continue to cite your authority. Did you bother to read the many diffs I posted above in the second two sections? I will quote three random examples from those I provided for you if you want.
- When he first deleted the two RfCs he wrote: "rv - see discussion with reviewing administrator; approval needed to start another RfC while one is already occurring."
- When he deleted a fact tag that JimWae put into the lede: "rv excessive tagging per talk; tag is already extant in header; do not subvert previous consensus but gain consensus for potential additions per administrative notice"
- When he rejected another recent change to the entry: "accepted edits by User:Jkhwiki; rv removal of longstanding referenced content - see discussion on talk page and gain consensus for action per administrative injunction"
- In talk page comments and in edit summaries he consistently does the same thing. He refers to your authority, either directly or indirectly through your "notice" or your "injunction" as he likes to call it. I never said the claimed to have administrative authority, I said that he's using your authority, by way of your comments, such as the closure of the AfD to bully people. Do you deny that he citing your comments, because if you do then I must have fabricated those quotes. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:32, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
If you say "If you don't do A, then I'm going to go and do B", that's a threat. Anyway, that's not the issue - we've already covered all the issues with the RfC reverting, and Anupam won't do it again. Why keep raising hell over it?
We've already covered everything you bring up. And no, I'm not denying anything. I'm just saying this, and it's very simple: I don't think there has been any blatant ownership here. That's my judgment. If you disagree, again, feel free to raise this with another administrator or on ANI. m.o.p 23:12, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Regarding the new RFC, I still think there has not passed yet too much time since the last discussion about splitting the article. As far as I knew, repeating these sorts of debates (like splitting, deleting, renaming) before a larger amount of time has passed (like 6 months) is usually discouraged. And as others have also argued earlier, even if having multiple RFCs is possible, it's not very useful, and the new RFC seems to discourage further discussion about improving the lead introduction. So preventing multiple RFCs (and also a RFC about an issue debated not too long ago) does not look to me like evidence of bad faith intentions. Cody7777777 (talk) 21:37, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Cody, would you mind linking me to the previous RfC on splitting? m.o.p 21:49, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- The previous attempt to split the article can be found here. Cody7777777 (talk) 21:55, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Response
Yes, it does. Thanks, m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Dear User:Master of Puppets, I just noticed that User:Binksternet started another RfC while a current one is occurring. Is this appropriate? I reverted the addition motioning for one until your response is confirmed. If it is acceptable, then I apologize and will revert my edit. I look forward to your response. With regards, AnupamTalk 15:14, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'll form my reply on ANI. m.o.p 17:12, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- When you do please take into account my comment just above, regarding Anupam's edit warring to remove talk page comments (namely these RfCs) posted by others on the talk page. If you still don't think this is WP:OWN then clearly other administrators are needed here.Griswaldo (talk) 17:15, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Dear User:Griswaldo, how is going to a neutral mediator to address the issue owning the article? I acknowledge that the article is in dispute and as a result, I am asking an administrator for advice in this matter, NOT handling things on my own, as you have done by edit warring. Your WP:OWN allegations have not only been dismissed by this administrator, but by several other users, including, User:Lionelt, User:Cody7777777 and User:NYyankees51. Thanks, AnupamTalk 17:27, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- In reply to Griswaldo: reverting the RfCs was a mistake, but we've cleared that up now. As Anupam has stated at ANI, the intent was not to discourage discussion. If you think my judgment is compromised, you're welcome to seek another administrator's input. m.o.p 21:04, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- And as further evidence of WP:OWN, see this. Anupam adds a comment to everything that anyone else says, as if he/she is the owner of the article and everyone else is a subordinate contributor. This particular instance is pretty benign (although it clutters up the talk page with an unnecessary comment that merely says "I agree"), but I do think that Anupam at least needs to learn how to avoid giving the appearance of thinking he/she owns the article, and to desist from chipping in and saying the same thing over and over again, which almost makes meaningful discussion impossible! SNALWIBMA ( talk - contribs ) 17:31, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- While the input is appreciated, as I've said before, making allegations of ownership without hard evidence isn't going to get us anywhere. Anupam is not stopping others from discussing changes or forming consensus, and that's all that matters - refactoring the talk page or commenting on an issue is not against policy, and I'm not going to tell someone to stop editing because it "looks" like they're doing something wrong. As said above, you're welcome to request another administrator's insight if you wish. m.o.p 21:04, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
COIHi
you've helped me out before, with a conflict of interest problem, so having much more experience than me on wikipedia, I thought I would be bold enough to ask again for help.
Similar problem to last, User_talk:Hobbycraft is editing the HOBBYCRAFT article and making changes that aren't citably right. I think the user name suggest and history suggests a conflict of interest case.
Can you please, speak to them addressing this issue.
Thank you very much for your help.
Markcoulter50 (talk) 22:27, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
- I've blocked that user for username violations. Thanks a lot for letting me know! Keep up the great work, m.o.p 23:00, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkbackcausa sui (talk) 18:47, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Hello. You have a new message at causa sui's talk page. causa sui (talk) 20:54, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Problematic editing on militant atheism
- I hope it's not considered defamatory to repeat the final line: "I merely present the diffs above, and let others draw their own conclusions. Is this a duck? Does it quack? You decide.". Unfortunately, the concerned community no longer has that opportunity. What did you decide on their behalf? Does this duck quack, or not? bobrayner (talk) 15:42, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- It's not your wording, it's the very idea of it. Going to what's allegorically a public place and shouting, "Hey, everybody, this man is a criminal!" is one step below blatantly forming a lynch mob. As I've said, I have no problem with your wording or evidence, just your location of choice. Wikipedia is not, unfortunately, a democracy - letting others draw their conclusions and voice their opinions is not how a sockpuppet investigation works.
- So yes, please don't go restoring any of that section. We're not discussing editors, we're discussing the content they produce. Anything else has a sub-board to deal with it (like WP:SPI).
- Hopefully that clears things up! I'll be happy to answer any more questions should you have them. Cheers, m.o.p 15:48, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Hello User:Bobrayner, I noticed the section you created on the militant atheism talk page. If you do feel the way you do about User:Turnsalso and the anonymous IP Addresses, you can take this up with WP:SPI. Thanks, AnupamTalk 15:52, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
Are you kidding my MoP? Above your write: Going to what's allegorically a public place and shouting, "Hey, everybody, this man is a criminal!" is one step below blatantly forming a lynch mob. AND We're not discussing editors, we're discussing the content they produce. Yet you call this edit by Lionelt "good faith," at WQA? MoP, I would not ask you to agree with me or to like me, but can I please ask you not to insult me with these double standards.Griswaldo (talk) 16:18, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
]
- Griswaldo, I mean no offense when I say this, but I'd appreciate it if you stayed out of discussions which didn't involve you. Also, please don't put words in my mouth. Thanks, m.o.p 16:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I have not put words in your mouth. You said that you would assume good faith about Lionel. If you "assume good faith" it means you assume his edits were in "good faith." If you did not intend that meaning I suggest you reconsider what you wrote. Also, if you want me to "stay out of discussion which don't involve me" then I suggest your first order of business should be to do the same thing yourself. You decided to post at WQA, when there was no mention of you or anything you've done in that thread. Once again, I expect people not to practice double standards. So as long as you cannot show me that you will treat me as you ask to be treated yourself, I will not oblige you. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:21, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Please stop bickering. I'm not quite sure what you're trying to accomplish here. I've already explained what I meant when I said assuming good faith, but I'll explain again: I assumed that Lionelt was not hounding or deliberately haranguing you. I did not say, at any point, that his edit content was good faith, and I've told him not to edit like that again. So please stop accusing me of saying things I haven't said.
- Also, I posted in WQA because, as a mediator in this case and as an administrator, it's my duty to weigh in on administrative noticeboards, especially when the case is an ongoing discussion I've been participating in for three months. It is not your duty to weigh in on discussions on my talk page that don't concern you. I hope the distinction is clear here. m.o.p 20:33, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I think you are confused about something. Content is never good faith. "Editing in good faith" and "good faith edits" refers to the intent of the editor always. It has nothing to do with content. My assumption that you also felt the edits were appropriate comes from the fact that you did not say they weren't appropriate and clearly feel that his intentions were good. If you'd like to set the record straight on that issue you still can. I've asked you twice now to discuss the actual edits that are the focal point of the thread. Also, I moved the thread to ANI, per the suggestion of the editor who marked it "resolved."Griswaldo (talk) 20:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- See Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#User:Lionelt_--_following_my_past_edits_to_drum_up_support_against_me. FYI, I copy pasted the entire discussion because both you and Collect were critical of my initial post and I thought it was the right thing to do to preserve that criticism in the record of the conversation. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:43, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- In reply to your first paragraph: I'm going to give up now, as it seems you're misunderstanding most of what I type, but you're the one who stated that the content was not good faith (as you said, not appropriate), and I agreed - I referred to his intent in replying to you, and said that I assumed good faith in his motives, not his replies. I can't really say that in a clearer way, so my apologies if it's hard to understand. Also, as I've already said, I've left a message for Lionelt about his edits, so clearly I do not feel they're appropriate. m.o.p 20:57, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I, too, find these double standards vexing.
- Which diff is defamatory?
- I had hitherto thought that people on the article talkpage might like to be aware of potential problems with votestacking on the article talkpage (and 3rr evasion, of course). Would it be permitted to add a link to that list of diffs when it's in a different place, or would you consider that defamatory too? bobrayner (talk) 16:23, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- As I said, the information is not defamatory, but the way it's presented is - we have specific processes available to pursue should one feel there are sockpuppets about. However, calling someone out with the intent of informing the community is overstepping your authority and damaging to the accused's character. Also, there's no way a community discussion about whether or not one editor is a sockpuppet can end in anything other than a sockpuppet investigation anyway.
- So, in closing, please don't bring issues like this to the talk page. If you're concerned about votestacking, take it to the appropriate venue - if your concerns are validated, we'll take measures against said puppets. Cheers, m.o.p 16:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I am very disappointed that it's no longer permissible to raise problems with article-editing on the article talkpage. Previous concerns about sockpuppetry were simply ignored; the difference this time is that it's backed by lots of diffs.
- I'm fairly confident that the people concerned have sufficient technical nous to make checkuser draw a blank. And, let's be entirely honest, within minutes of me creating an SPI, an admin of the right persuasion will be getting an email suggesting that an SPI needs their attention. And SPI does not see offsite coordination by a facebook group &c. Finally, any null result at SPI will be used at the article in much the same way as previous administrative decisions have been. So, I do not believe that an SPI will improve either the article, or the encyclopædia as a whole. bobrayner (talk) 17:08, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- If you don't think the pre-existing methods set in place for situations like this are sufficient, you can always raise that concern at the village pump or suggest a policy revision - however, SPI is the venue for these requests, and the only venue. The talk page can not substitute. m.o.p 17:10, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
76.228.226.122Thank you for blocking the anonymous user, who is being counterproductive and rude. (although I think the block should have been one week, but I guess ok at least)
Can you also please try to hide the edit summaries of these edits if possible?
This and
this
Thanks and regards, talk 05:04, 26 September 2011 (UTC)]
- I'll extend the block if this behaviour continues after the block period is over.
- As for the edit summaries, those don't warrant hiding - I apologize for their content, but they don't meet the criteria of what I should remove. It's best just to ignore them for now. Cheers, m.o.p 05:13, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
- Okay, good to know, if I did nothing wrong, no permanent block will be enforced. The IP does not volunteer on WP as an admin and so the disproportionately out of line comments and threats of his should be ignored. --talk 05:19, 26 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Sounds good. We only hide extremely offensive revisions; milder ones stay in the edit history. Thanks again for bringing this to our attention! Cheers, m.o.p 05:31, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
Email
Jasper Deng (talk) 05:29, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
- Reading. talk) 06:00, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Bad Girls Club
- I've blocked Junebea for 2 days for disregarding warnings. m.o.p 20:30, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks for helping :) Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 21:06, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkback
- And again.Griswaldo (talk) 04:24, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
- And again ... but maybe the last. You can settle this question once and for all. See the talk page.Griswaldo (talk) 06:09, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'm sure I'm not alone in wanting to hear your replies to the last responses posed to you at that page. IMO, I don't know why you went down the road you did, but as far as I can tell you're blatantly misrepesenting facts about your own actions when people are brining concerns to you. You might think that since you closed the RfC the matter is settled, but it is not. You're actions have not made my life any more pleasant in the last few days vis-a-vis trying to deal with Anupam's disruption and I think you owe us all answers. So please revisit this thread and deal with the open questions. Thanks.Griswaldo (talk) 02:19, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
- I invite you to stop asking the same question again and again. This would be appreciated. Thanks, m.o.p 02:33, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Block question
- No, I just block obviously bad-faith accounts on sight. Advertising/spam accounts fall under that category. m.o.p 00:37, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Thanks
- Thank you. I've unlocked the article for whatever may come. If I'm needed again, feel free to let me know. Thanks for the kind words again, m.o.p 05:12, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
reminder
- We're still waiting to see if the user understands COI policy (per Ed's question). I'll prod the user and see if they'll answer. talk) 19:20, 30 September 2011 (UTC)]
Nextel logo deleted
- Mmm, good point. What's the link to the logo in question? m.o.p 01:33, 2 October 2011 (UTC)
Support of Sage City SymphonyYou deleted this page before I had a chance to go back in and add the stuff that you wanted to see, including the links within Wikipedia to important composers such as Lou Callabro (who started this orchestra and cites it in his Wikipedia page) and Susan Hurley whose work we premiered (SC is also mentioned in her Wikipedia entry). (Let alone links about the works we have performed.) And we have a web site at www.sagecitysymphony.org, have existed for over 35 yrs and are a significant cultural resource in the Bennington area such that we receive grants from local, statewide and national foundations.
I broke my wrist last weekend and am doing one-handed pecking so it'll take me a few days to get that loaded in. We are going out for a bit now, but I would appreciate your undeleting the page so that I don't have to re-invent the starting part when I go back in tomorrow to add links. Or delete it entirely so that I can start fresh - at this point either would work as long as I can start some serious work on it tomorrow. I am the webmaster by the way, so I do have access to content and more links.
Thank you, Celia Murray — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.228.127.119 (talk) 14:22, 1 October 2011 (UTC)
- It looks like fixed everything up. Best of luck, m.o.p 01:35, 2 October 2011 (UTC)]
Reply on Deterence's talk page
MA
After the beating you took you deserve a cold one--on me! Thanks for being fair and balanced – Lionel (talk) 03:55, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
- Hey, thanks! Glad to help out. :) m.o.p 03:56, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
Deletion of Mau5trap Recordings
--neocharles (talk) 07:33, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Existence does not equal notability - the subject has to be notable to get a Wikipedia page. m.o.p 12:05, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
Questoin re: AIV
- Addendum, actually, I read it very clearly in WP:VANDNOT: "Uploading or using material on Wikipedia in violation of Wikipedia's copyright policies is prohibited, but is not vandalism unless the user does so maliciously or fails to heed warnings." So if a person fails to heed warnings it is vandalism. My mistake here was that I only warned once. --Muhandes (talk) 12:29, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Eh, technically it is vandalism, but the user seems to be trying to improve the Wikipedia - that desire to help is misplaced in this case, as they seem to think that using copyrighted content is actually better. Weird. For most cases, yes, you should report copyvio to AIV - as long as they've been warned sufficiently. m.o.p 12:42, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- OK, he now did it again and the time stamp is after your last warning. Is it vandalism now? --Muhandes (talk) 12:32, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Yeah, if they're outright ignoring warnings. I've blocked for three days. m.o.p 12:40, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
Classmusic
- Oh, I know. But if somebody's lied to my face about using another account - and to other editors working on the article - I'm not about to let them go without a repercussion or two. I'd like Almost-instinct and Voceditnore to look over the article and fix up anything shifty. Also, I'd like Classmusic to respond to my warning, instead of blanking it and ignoring like they have to the above-named editors.
- So, in short, I know that COI doesn't bar editing, but it's enough of a concern that, given the user's recent behaviour, I'll stop them from doing anything until we've figured things out. This isn't too rouge-y, is it? I didn't hear that. Perhaps he is unaware of the sockpuppet investigation findings. Anyhow it seems that DeltaQuad has also blocked the Classmusic account. I left a note on his page about using the unblock template, but re-iterated that he needs to read the COI and Autobiography guidelines and stick to them scrupulously, if he gets unblocked. In the Opera and Classical Music WikiProjects, we get a lot of articles for performers, ensembles, etc. created by their agents and PR people, and often themselves. In my experience, the best I can hope for after one of these tussles is that they'll edit their article according to the guidelines in future. I have yet to find a single one who has ever contributed anything else to Wikipedia. Their only interest in the project is as a PR tool. Having said that, at least it results (after much red-pencilling from other editors) in one new article on a notable subject that we didn't have before and in a small way redresses the pop culture systemic bias here. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 13:40, 5 October 2011 (UTC)]
Danish election
- Never mind, it's been pulled by another admin. All the best, Jenks24 (talk) 11:03, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry about that! I was busy all day and didn't get your message until now. Thanks for letting me know, though! Cheers, m.o.p 19:51, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
3RRHey there! :)
Well WP:CRYSTAL has wined down, however, there's currently a
The Bad Girls Club (season 7). I have notified the two users [32], [33]. The evidence can be found here. They are having an edit-conflict on how the "Duration of cast" should be presented. Since there's no rules regarding anything like that, and it was made up about a year ago, I couldn't warned them to stop their e/c with anything except the 3RR rule. Maybe they need an admin to tell them to stop, so that's why I came to you :) Thanks, Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 01:17, 6 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Temporary page protection requested. Calabe1992 (talk) 01:29, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
- No worries! m.o.p 19:35, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
Is there a procedure for brutal uncollaborated editing with a destructive intent?I noticed that you recently had problems with proposed brutal editing by Peter S Strempel. Although he has been more sensible on your project in the end (possibly because of your administrator status?) he has not been so with regard to the astrology project pages to which he made a similar 'razor-promise'. Could you please see this Afd request which is one of three he made for major 'history of astrology' articles within the last hour, with a promise on another important page that any comment which is not refrences within 7 days will be removed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Babylonian_astrology
Is there anything that can be done about this officially to stop him wreaking havoc with content whilst he knows that the small group of editors providing content on these pages are already stretched to the limit trying to keep up with what needs to be done? I don't understand what drives some people to want to edit WP like this, but I think it is entriely the result of his ego-stress that when he proposed an edit for a passage, no one favoured it. Hope you can help or advise Zac Δ talk 01:15, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks! assume good faith; I believe that Peter is simply trying to help improve Wikipedia. While his methods may be lacking in some areas, he has displayed a pretty decent grasp on the policies he's trying to enforce.)
- However, I agree that he shouldn't be making any changes if they're not discussed with the community first. Do you mind pulling up a few diffs of where he went against consensus? I'll approach him with your concern then. Thanks, m.o.p 03:57, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
- Actually there hasn't been any significant content dispute with Peter. He proposed a change to a section edit which wasn't a very good proposition and a few editors commented but without rancur, and I added a new section post immediately afterwards to point out the proiposed change would contradict with how the definition was given correctly at a later point in the article, outlining how I understood WP policy expected the main astrology article to pull its own content together, along with its summarised content from its daughter pages. Peter never responded to this but other editors started working in that direction immediately. Then, without further discussion or comment, Peter came back four days later to announce an intention to take his 'word razor' to all unreferenced assertions on the main astrology page, its sub-pages, and the portal page itself, to ensure his perceived disagreement was not circumvented in pages he viewed as content forks (I'm still not sure what he means by that). My response to that can be seen - a perfectly reasonable request for him to do what he felt was most productive, but consider that citation-tagging was the way to go. I also placed comments on his talk-page, which you can read if you are interested. That he erupted into a frenzy of AfD requests last night says something, I think, about his unwillingness to discuss and engage in other views. Most of his posts appear as new section declarations that don't appear to have considered the responses other editors give him.
- I've summarised this in the ANI request Dougweller started. The deletion requests were a step too far IMO, and I'm concerned that Peter would spring to such drastic measures in reaction to what he perceives to be me not allowing him to do what he wants to do. I'll be away for a few days so I'm tying up my WP activity now. That underlines my concern that he intends to take such drastic action with only one week's notice of intent. Thanks for looking into this. It would be good if something could be proposed to stop huge problems before they occur. 10:35, 22 July 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zachariel (talk • contribs
- One last request. I have just noticed that a related complaint, which is quite serious but has been sidetracked (deliberatly IMO) by Peter's suggestions that I have prevented him from doing what he wants, has been collapsed as "going nowehere" by an unsympathetic editor.
- "Its ben here several days and no admin has even sniffed at a block or ban - clearly you're not going to get admin action. So this should got to WP:DR or WP:RFCU if you want to take it further. I've boldly collapsed this, though I won't be surprised if someone uncollapses it"
- If you can find the time could you at least take a look at that related problem, and consider uncollapsing it, because the issues are serious and have gone beyond the point where Dispute resolution are appropriate. I will be away and have nothing more to add, but the problems identified still remain. Zac Δ talk 10:58, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
What to do?
- I've started a threat at ANI. Those AfDs are purely pointy and if no one objects I'll close them. talk) 06:11, 22 July 2011 (UTC)]
- Replied there. m.o.p 08:20, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
Talk Page on Militant Atheism - Introduction Section
- The update is appreciated, thanks very much. I've been dealing with life for the past two weeks, but I'll be back to close that discussion tonight or tomorrow. Thanks again, m.o.p 22:03, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
- Just bringing this up again, given the current state of this section. I believe the discussion will be archived automatically if not closed. I'm sorry if I sound pushy with you having a lot on your plate of late. If you would prefer, I could alert User:Fastily instead. Turnsalso (talk) 16:55, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
ITN
- I knew that tab I closed had unfinished business on it... thanks. 2008 University of Central Arkansas shootings is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.
The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2008 University of Central Arkansas shootings(2nd nomination) until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on good quality evidence, and our policies and guidelines.
Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article.
talk 14:00, 1 September 2011 (UTC)]
Hey
- Done! Both your userpage and the transcluded page are protected. Cheers, « ₣M₣ » 04:09, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Restored. m.o.p 05:21, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
]
User talk:Joshua the Independent
- My mistake - my block script auto-filled the edit summary. The block was issued due to the user's newfound will to disrupt Wikipedia intentionally. Their previous contributions are welcome, but this behaviour necessitates administrative action. m.o.p 21:52, 13 September 2011 (UTC)
Say hi to your imaginary girlfriend for me
- Well, I do love getting hate mail. Thanks for the laugh! Cheers, m.o.p 05:17, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
...further to the above lovely note, I weighed in on Calabe's talk page - there appears to be more confusion here than at first glance. bou·le·var·dier (talk) 05:19, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
Sorry to drop by again, but Silentsizzlingsausage (talk · contribs) would appear to be a duck. bou·le·var·dier (talk) 05:31, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
- No, it's not an issue! Thanks for the note, blocked. Cheers, WP:SPI. Thanks again, m.o.p 06:13, 14 September 2011 (UTC)]
I have to admit ...
- See the above section. The link is apparently a very subtle spam link that Calabe is removing, and socks are springing up to revert him. Swarm u / t 10:20, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
Moderation
- Alright, I'll make my way back. Thanks for letting me know! m.o.p 05:18, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
User:12.139.96.228
- To be honest, this case is perplexing. Half of this user's edits are constructive (mostly sourced), the other half aren't sourced - and the user won't reply to anybody. I'm also too busy to go through every edit and confirm whether or not it's good. I forgot about this for a while - I'll think about it tonight and figure something out for tomorrow. Thanks for reminding me! m.o.p 05:18, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
Whoops
- Whoops! Must not have been looking when I ran my block script. Thanks for letting me know, I've reblocked them for a far shorter (technically, an infinitely shorter) time. Cheers, m.o.p 22:58, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
Ashleyleggat404
- You're fully right in that the blanking policy covers indefinite blocks. I've removed the user's talk page rights as a result. Thanks again! m.o.p 00:28, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkback
Moderation
- If you look into this please consider whether Anupam's actions on the talk page and the entry itself are violations of WP:OWN. He's been driving off those he disagrees with by bludgening them to death with argument and heavily policing the entry claiming that there is a consensus written in stone despite many dissenting voices. Others have taken to simply calling him "the article's owner." I have had enough of this behavior personally and left him a message about it on his talk page. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:52, 20 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Dear User:Master of Puppets, the above user has misrepresented the occurrences at the article. I started another Introduction discussion at the article's talk page but User:Griswaldo has chosen to edit war over a second NPOV tag, despite the fact that one already exists in the article. He has done so despite the fact that the Introduction is being discussed in a peaceful manner at the talk page, in violation of your injunction: "We've only got consensus on this proposed versions (and loose consensus at that) - please do not attempt to subvert said consensus by making undiscussed changes." I have posted a message on his talk page about this behaviour. Nevertheless, I also do not wish to argue with the user personally and would prefer if you could go back to moderating the discussion between the two parties at the talk page. Thanks for taking the time to read this message. With regards, AnupamTalk 20:58, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- His "injunction?" Adding a neutrality tag to a specific sentence which an editor disputes the neutrality of is hardly "subverting the consensus by making undiscussed changes." Please stop wikilawyering to get your way. There is a growing consensus against your position regarding this article in general as well, despite your aggressive policing of the entry and the talk page. See ]
- I just thought that I would mention that User:Griswaldo, after seeing this message, just now decided to comment in the discussion rather than edit war against consensus further. Thanks for taking the time to read this message. With regards, AnupamTalk 21:51, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- "Edit war against consensus further?" My comment there has nothing to do with your message here. I've made three total edits to this entry ever. One was a copy edit in June, another was reverting an IP vandal, and the third was the revert of your Ownership edit. Please do not insinuate that I'm a edit warrior on this page. It is disingenuous.Griswaldo (talk) 22:08, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Thank you all for approaching me with your concerns.
- Obviously, I do not support Anupam - this is because I'm remaining a neutral third party, and, therefore, can't take sides. However, Griswaldo: please keep in mind that I did ask for all discussion to take place on the talk page. Why not just add your complaints to the talk page? It would have been much easier to discuss.
- I do agree that adding a NPOV tag, while slightly redundant, isn't horrible, but your intent seems to have been to stir discussion on that particular section, discussion that would be much more appropriate on the talk page.
- As for your and Snalwibma's concerns of Anupam trying to 'own' the article, I'm curious as to what you two mean; what 'delusions'?
- Also, Griswaldo, I don't think Anupam meant to insinuate you are an edit warrior (though this is just my take) - rather, they wanted to add the note that you've weighed in on discussion. m.o.p 22:10, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- your intent seems to have been to stir discussion on that particular section - No that's incorrect. I didn't add this tag, I simply reverted Anupam's attempt to own the page when he removed it. I agreed with JimWae's addition of the tag and found Anupam's removal to be unwarranted and a display of ownership.Griswaldo (talk) 22:16, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Note that, for all intents and purposes, reverting somebody is adding whatever is included in your edit, regardless of who put it there first. You revert a removal, you're agreeing with the edition you're reverting to - simple.
- And, if you agreed with JimWae, then we go back to what I was saying earlier - say so on the talk page. Two of you agree? Great! That's closer to consensus. But it means nothing if you express your support by reverting removals.
- Again, as I've asked multiple times, please stop saying that Anupam is owning anything without giving me evidence of it first. m.o.p 22:22, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Dear User:Master of Puppets, thank you for your reply to all of us. The reason User:Snalwibma stated that I was attempting to "own" the article was because I reverted an undiscussed removal from the article, which not only myself, but two other users objected to. In fact, two anonymous IP Addresses also reverted User:Snalwibma. I was open to compromise on the issue and stated that I would accept User:Turnsalso's compromise on the issue. I kindly request you to look at that discussion yourself and get an honest reading of it. Also, the only reason I removed the second NPOV tag was because there was already one present, which I did not remove. I only reverted the addition of a second NPOV tag once and even explained myself on the talk page. When I went to the talk page, I found rude accusations and an anti-collaborative spirit, despite the fact that I have been nothing but polite. I hope this helps. With regards, AnupamTalk 22:25, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry - I know I should not rise to the bait, but I have to object to the comment "The reason User:Snalwibma stated that I was attempting to 'own' the article was because I reverted an undiscussed removal ..." How dare Anupam presume to know what is in my mind! The reason I describe Anupam's attitude to the article as one of ownership is because that is how s/he behaves - "policing" every edit, pronouncing on whether s/he "accepts" or "rejects" it, peremptorily reverting anything s/he does not like, without discussion, presuming to know others' motives, and judging them as fit/unfit to contribute to the article. This has been going on for weeks, if not months. It is impossible to discuss the content of the article, let alone improve the text, because everything is filtered through the approval/disapproval of the article's self-appointed guardian, Anupam. tendentious or disruptive when they bring up certain issues, even when they are clearly in the majority. That is not collaborative. I stopped editing the article heavily because of those issues. I don't have any delusions that my opinion is worth more than anyone else's here, but I would think that the large number of established, experienced editors who are all saying there's a problem, would indicate something. — Jess· Δ♥ 19:45, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
Please reconsider your full protection of Militant atheist
- In case you didn't notice, I asked that people think twice about pointing fingers at each other. If you'd like to start a sockpuppetry investigation, let me know, and we can take that avenue - however, don't accuse other editors of ownership without substance. If you think Anupam is trying to own things, give me something. Diffs, edits, anything. I'll check it out for you, but right now, baseless accusations are not what I'm looking for.
- Also, notice that I protected the article with your edit being the last one. How is that validating the very person you've been reverting?
- The protection will stay until consensus is reached. m.o.p 22:19, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Because protection is what he wants quite clearly. He's stalling conversation and shouting down people on the talk page, where, if you have a look, you'll see he's clearly in the minority. Because of your "injunction" as he calls it, he also claims that no matter how many people agree with a certain change it is illegitimate. I'll be happy to gather some diffs, but my first message to you above was to please look into the situation carefully before acting on it. Did you do that and come to the conclusion that I'm wrong or did you not head that request? Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:29, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Yes, I did heed your request. I don't see any ownership behaviour from Anupam, though, being involved in multiple disputes, I didn't have the time to read every last word on the page, so you're free to provide evidence. However, from what I can see, Anupam's last proposal was supported by the majority - not to count (and I don't mean to imply that I decide where consensus lies by looking at pure numbers), but from looking at pure supports versus opposes, eight people (nine including Anupam) support while four oppose. How does that make Anupam's views a minority? m.o.p 22:37, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- It depends on what view you are talking about. The current RFC on the introduction is something that most people don't even want to engage because most people think this very entry should be split up and integrated into other entries. I reluctantly engaged the RfC just now myself. The last time the more serious question about the entry was asked, several of the new commentators were not around, and there was "no consensus" found because the opposing side was chalk full of SPAs and editors with a view that is outright hostile to atheism (which is a legitimate view to hold, but it is a minority view). Let me find you some diffs.Griswaldo (talk) 22:43, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- User:Griswaldo, that is exactly the issue: you do not want to collaborate with other users on the talk page, which is why you were reluctant to participate in the current RfC. Moreover, there were several SPA's on the side of the opposition as well, including WP:NPOV. In addition, the split was again recently discussed and the specific case to do so was refuted by several editors. As such, there was no consensus for it. I hope this helps. With regards, AnupamTalk 22:52, 20 September 2011 (UTC)]
- No. You are trying to write an article that violates WP:SYNTH because it conflates New Atheism with oppressive communist regimes and their histories of violence. That's hardly NPOV. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:59, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
Hi m.o.p., as someone who occasionally looks at that page (and then washes my hands), I just want to compliment you as having done the right thing in full protecting. By way of unsolicited advice to the involved editors, the best thing they could do is to allow The Wrong Version to sit there a good long time, and devote their energy to other things. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:54, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
]
Yes, please reconsider your full protection of
WP:RS—deserve protection against misinformed reverts. Thanks Geremia (talk) 16:12, 22 September 2011 (UTC)]
Diffs of
- I'm not really sure where the ownership is here; nowhere in our policies is it stated that a user can't promote their RFC on the subject talk page. If it's ongoing and they'd like to move it to the forefront, what's wrong with that? More so, some of your summaries seem inaccurate - in that last diff, you state that Anupam is removing images, yet I only see Anupam adding an image (the peace dove that's at the top of the page). Also, you use repeating examples. m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Well clearly the last diff was wrong. Thanks for the vote of confidence. There are no repeat examples nor inaccurate summaries, just a mistaken copy paste of the second to last diff to the last position as well. I have fixed it. Cheers.
- Using "consensus claims from one RfC to reject changes made to article content
- Same as above. Using the "consensus" bludgeon to get his way. Please note that clearly we ought to edit by consensus, but this consensus is highly disputed, and IMO not there in the first place. The real problem is the way in which Anupam decides to use it like a trump card to remove changes he doesn't like. Ask yourself if all changes post "consensus" have been removed or just the ones Anupam decided he wanted removed.
Master of Puppets do you need more diffs or is this enough?Griswaldo (talk) 23:31, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Well I need more diffs because your "evidence" so far looks like a desperate attempt to incriminate an editor who has been very successful in persuading his colleagues to adopt his proposals. Anupam has presented his proposals, argued the merits and persuaded many editors. Anything you want to tell us about why you're having difficulty doing likewise? – Lionel (talk) 06:02, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- I don't see this is as conclusive evidence, either. And, it should be said - if people are editing against established consensus, then people are free to re-evaluate consensus, but edit-warring against it doesn't make much sense. m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- If not ownership then what is this - [28], [29], [30]? He removes two RfCs started by another editor, and revolving around the question that many of us actually find to be the fundamental question to answer regarding the entry. Then he edit wars to keep these RfCs off the page, claiming again to have some sort of authority stemming from your prior actions. If you aren't willing to do something here I'm going to another administrator and I'm going to ask for your initial "consensus," your strong arm administrating, and your lack of action here to be reviewed as well. Thanks.Griswaldo (talk) 17:08, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Anupam has already apologized for reverting those RfC additions, and we've moved past it. He also didn't claim to have administrative authority, but was waiting for my approval. We've cleared this up, it's not an issue. So no, I'm not going to take any action (as I've said here and on ANI). Now, if you'd like to threaten me and tell me that, since I'm not cooperating with your wills, you'll go to another administrator, that's fine - as I've said, you can seek outside opinions - but remember to keep a cool head, because borderline threats are not appreciated. m.o.p 21:49, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- It was not a threat, "borderline" or otherwise. You are conveniently ignoring a growing number of voices who are all saying the same thing - there is an ownership problem here. The deletion issue has not been "cleared up" as far as I'm concerned. Whenever it is mentioned Anupam insists that he did not "unilaterally" delete the RfCs from the page, which is a blatant distortion, since that is exactly what he did. He continues to act as a policeman at the page, and yes he does continue to cite your authority. Did you bother to read the many diffs I posted above in the second two sections? I will quote three random examples from those I provided for you if you want.
- When he first deleted the two RfCs he wrote: "rv - see discussion with reviewing administrator; approval needed to start another RfC while one is already occurring."
- When he deleted a fact tag that JimWae put into the lede: "rv excessive tagging per talk; tag is already extant in header; do not subvert previous consensus but gain consensus for potential additions per administrative notice"
- When he rejected another recent change to the entry: "accepted edits by User:Jkhwiki; rv removal of longstanding referenced content - see discussion on talk page and gain consensus for action per administrative injunction"
- In talk page comments and in edit summaries he consistently does the same thing. He refers to your authority, either directly or indirectly through your "notice" or your "injunction" as he likes to call it. I never said the claimed to have administrative authority, I said that he's using your authority, by way of your comments, such as the closure of the AfD to bully people. Do you deny that he citing your comments, because if you do then I must have fabricated those quotes. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:32, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
If you say "If you don't do A, then I'm going to go and do B", that's a threat. Anyway, that's not the issue - we've already covered all the issues with the RfC reverting, and Anupam won't do it again. Why keep raising hell over it?
We've already covered everything you bring up. And no, I'm not denying anything. I'm just saying this, and it's very simple: I don't think there has been any blatant ownership here. That's my judgment. If you disagree, again, feel free to raise this with another administrator or on ANI. m.o.p 23:12, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Regarding the new RFC, I still think there has not passed yet too much time since the last discussion about splitting the article. As far as I knew, repeating these sorts of debates (like splitting, deleting, renaming) before a larger amount of time has passed (like 6 months) is usually discouraged. And as others have also argued earlier, even if having multiple RFCs is possible, it's not very useful, and the new RFC seems to discourage further discussion about improving the lead introduction. So preventing multiple RFCs (and also a RFC about an issue debated not too long ago) does not look to me like evidence of bad faith intentions. Cody7777777 (talk) 21:37, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Cody, would you mind linking me to the previous RfC on splitting? m.o.p 21:49, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- The previous attempt to split the article can be found here. Cody7777777 (talk) 21:55, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Response
Yes, it does. Thanks, m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Dear User:Master of Puppets, I just noticed that User:Binksternet started another RfC while a current one is occurring. Is this appropriate? I reverted the addition motioning for one until your response is confirmed. If it is acceptable, then I apologize and will revert my edit. I look forward to your response. With regards, AnupamTalk 15:14, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'll form my reply on ANI. m.o.p 17:12, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- When you do please take into account my comment just above, regarding Anupam's edit warring to remove talk page comments (namely these RfCs) posted by others on the talk page. If you still don't think this is WP:OWN then clearly other administrators are needed here.Griswaldo (talk) 17:15, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Dear User:Griswaldo, how is going to a neutral mediator to address the issue owning the article? I acknowledge that the article is in dispute and as a result, I am asking an administrator for advice in this matter, NOT handling things on my own, as you have done by edit warring. Your WP:OWN allegations have not only been dismissed by this administrator, but by several other users, including, User:Lionelt, User:Cody7777777 and User:NYyankees51. Thanks, AnupamTalk 17:27, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- In reply to Griswaldo: reverting the RfCs was a mistake, but we've cleared that up now. As Anupam has stated at ANI, the intent was not to discourage discussion. If you think my judgment is compromised, you're welcome to seek another administrator's input. m.o.p 21:04, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- And as further evidence of WP:OWN, see this. Anupam adds a comment to everything that anyone else says, as if he/she is the owner of the article and everyone else is a subordinate contributor. This particular instance is pretty benign (although it clutters up the talk page with an unnecessary comment that merely says "I agree"), but I do think that Anupam at least needs to learn how to avoid giving the appearance of thinking he/she owns the article, and to desist from chipping in and saying the same thing over and over again, which almost makes meaningful discussion impossible! SNALWIBMA ( talk - contribs ) 17:31, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- While the input is appreciated, as I've said before, making allegations of ownership without hard evidence isn't going to get us anywhere. Anupam is not stopping others from discussing changes or forming consensus, and that's all that matters - refactoring the talk page or commenting on an issue is not against policy, and I'm not going to tell someone to stop editing because it "looks" like they're doing something wrong. As said above, you're welcome to request another administrator's insight if you wish. m.o.p 21:04, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
COIHi
you've helped me out before, with a conflict of interest problem, so having much more experience than me on wikipedia, I thought I would be bold enough to ask again for help.
Similar problem to last, User_talk:Hobbycraft is editing the HOBBYCRAFT article and making changes that aren't citably right. I think the user name suggest and history suggests a conflict of interest case.
Can you please, speak to them addressing this issue.
Thank you very much for your help.
Markcoulter50 (talk) 22:27, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
- I've blocked that user for username violations. Thanks a lot for letting me know! Keep up the great work, m.o.p 23:00, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkbackcausa sui (talk) 18:47, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Hello. You have a new message at causa sui's talk page. causa sui (talk) 20:54, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Problematic editing on militant atheism
- I hope it's not considered defamatory to repeat the final line: "I merely present the diffs above, and let others draw their own conclusions. Is this a duck? Does it quack? You decide.". Unfortunately, the concerned community no longer has that opportunity. What did you decide on their behalf? Does this duck quack, or not? bobrayner (talk) 15:42, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- It's not your wording, it's the very idea of it. Going to what's allegorically a public place and shouting, "Hey, everybody, this man is a criminal!" is one step below blatantly forming a lynch mob. As I've said, I have no problem with your wording or evidence, just your location of choice. Wikipedia is not, unfortunately, a democracy - letting others draw their conclusions and voice their opinions is not how a sockpuppet investigation works.
- So yes, please don't go restoring any of that section. We're not discussing editors, we're discussing the content they produce. Anything else has a sub-board to deal with it (like WP:SPI).
- Hopefully that clears things up! I'll be happy to answer any more questions should you have them. Cheers, m.o.p 15:48, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Hello User:Bobrayner, I noticed the section you created on the militant atheism talk page. If you do feel the way you do about User:Turnsalso and the anonymous IP Addresses, you can take this up with WP:SPI. Thanks, AnupamTalk 15:52, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
Are you kidding my MoP? Above your write: Going to what's allegorically a public place and shouting, "Hey, everybody, this man is a criminal!" is one step below blatantly forming a lynch mob. AND We're not discussing editors, we're discussing the content they produce. Yet you call this edit by Lionelt "good faith," at WQA? MoP, I would not ask you to agree with me or to like me, but can I please ask you not to insult me with these double standards.Griswaldo (talk) 16:18, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
]
- Griswaldo, I mean no offense when I say this, but I'd appreciate it if you stayed out of discussions which didn't involve you. Also, please don't put words in my mouth. Thanks, m.o.p 16:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I have not put words in your mouth. You said that you would assume good faith about Lionel. If you "assume good faith" it means you assume his edits were in "good faith." If you did not intend that meaning I suggest you reconsider what you wrote. Also, if you want me to "stay out of discussion which don't involve me" then I suggest your first order of business should be to do the same thing yourself. You decided to post at WQA, when there was no mention of you or anything you've done in that thread. Once again, I expect people not to practice double standards. So as long as you cannot show me that you will treat me as you ask to be treated yourself, I will not oblige you. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:21, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Please stop bickering. I'm not quite sure what you're trying to accomplish here. I've already explained what I meant when I said assuming good faith, but I'll explain again: I assumed that Lionelt was not hounding or deliberately haranguing you. I did not say, at any point, that his edit content was good faith, and I've told him not to edit like that again. So please stop accusing me of saying things I haven't said.
- Also, I posted in WQA because, as a mediator in this case and as an administrator, it's my duty to weigh in on administrative noticeboards, especially when the case is an ongoing discussion I've been participating in for three months. It is not your duty to weigh in on discussions on my talk page that don't concern you. I hope the distinction is clear here. m.o.p 20:33, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I think you are confused about something. Content is never good faith. "Editing in good faith" and "good faith edits" refers to the intent of the editor always. It has nothing to do with content. My assumption that you also felt the edits were appropriate comes from the fact that you did not say they weren't appropriate and clearly feel that his intentions were good. If you'd like to set the record straight on that issue you still can. I've asked you twice now to discuss the actual edits that are the focal point of the thread. Also, I moved the thread to ANI, per the suggestion of the editor who marked it "resolved."Griswaldo (talk) 20:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- See Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#User:Lionelt_--_following_my_past_edits_to_drum_up_support_against_me. FYI, I copy pasted the entire discussion because both you and Collect were critical of my initial post and I thought it was the right thing to do to preserve that criticism in the record of the conversation. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:43, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- In reply to your first paragraph: I'm going to give up now, as it seems you're misunderstanding most of what I type, but you're the one who stated that the content was not good faith (as you said, not appropriate), and I agreed - I referred to his intent in replying to you, and said that I assumed good faith in his motives, not his replies. I can't really say that in a clearer way, so my apologies if it's hard to understand. Also, as I've already said, I've left a message for Lionelt about his edits, so clearly I do not feel they're appropriate. m.o.p 20:57, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I, too, find these double standards vexing.
- Which diff is defamatory?
- I had hitherto thought that people on the article talkpage might like to be aware of potential problems with votestacking on the article talkpage (and 3rr evasion, of course). Would it be permitted to add a link to that list of diffs when it's in a different place, or would you consider that defamatory too? bobrayner (talk) 16:23, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- As I said, the information is not defamatory, but the way it's presented is - we have specific processes available to pursue should one feel there are sockpuppets about. However, calling someone out with the intent of informing the community is overstepping your authority and damaging to the accused's character. Also, there's no way a community discussion about whether or not one editor is a sockpuppet can end in anything other than a sockpuppet investigation anyway.
- So, in closing, please don't bring issues like this to the talk page. If you're concerned about votestacking, take it to the appropriate venue - if your concerns are validated, we'll take measures against said puppets. Cheers, m.o.p 16:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I am very disappointed that it's no longer permissible to raise problems with article-editing on the article talkpage. Previous concerns about sockpuppetry were simply ignored; the difference this time is that it's backed by lots of diffs.
- I'm fairly confident that the people concerned have sufficient technical nous to make checkuser draw a blank. And, let's be entirely honest, within minutes of me creating an SPI, an admin of the right persuasion will be getting an email suggesting that an SPI needs their attention. And SPI does not see offsite coordination by a facebook group &c. Finally, any null result at SPI will be used at the article in much the same way as previous administrative decisions have been. So, I do not believe that an SPI will improve either the article, or the encyclopædia as a whole. bobrayner (talk) 17:08, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- If you don't think the pre-existing methods set in place for situations like this are sufficient, you can always raise that concern at the village pump or suggest a policy revision - however, SPI is the venue for these requests, and the only venue. The talk page can not substitute. m.o.p 17:10, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
76.228.226.122Thank you for blocking the anonymous user, who is being counterproductive and rude. (although I think the block should have been one week, but I guess ok at least)
Can you also please try to hide the edit summaries of these edits if possible?
This and
this
Thanks and regards, talk 05:04, 26 September 2011 (UTC)]
- I'll extend the block if this behaviour continues after the block period is over.
- As for the edit summaries, those don't warrant hiding - I apologize for their content, but they don't meet the criteria of what I should remove. It's best just to ignore them for now. Cheers, m.o.p 05:13, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
- Okay, good to know, if I did nothing wrong, no permanent block will be enforced. The IP does not volunteer on WP as an admin and so the disproportionately out of line comments and threats of his should be ignored. --talk 05:19, 26 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Sounds good. We only hide extremely offensive revisions; milder ones stay in the edit history. Thanks again for bringing this to our attention! Cheers, m.o.p 05:31, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
Email
Jasper Deng (talk) 05:29, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
- Reading. talk) 06:00, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Bad Girls Club
- I've blocked Junebea for 2 days for disregarding warnings. m.o.p 20:30, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks for helping :) Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 21:06, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkback
- And again.Griswaldo (talk) 04:24, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
- And again ... but maybe the last. You can settle this question once and for all. See the talk page.Griswaldo (talk) 06:09, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'm sure I'm not alone in wanting to hear your replies to the last responses posed to you at that page. IMO, I don't know why you went down the road you did, but as far as I can tell you're blatantly misrepesenting facts about your own actions when people are brining concerns to you. You might think that since you closed the RfC the matter is settled, but it is not. You're actions have not made my life any more pleasant in the last few days vis-a-vis trying to deal with Anupam's disruption and I think you owe us all answers. So please revisit this thread and deal with the open questions. Thanks.Griswaldo (talk) 02:19, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
- I invite you to stop asking the same question again and again. This would be appreciated. Thanks, m.o.p 02:33, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Block question
- No, I just block obviously bad-faith accounts on sight. Advertising/spam accounts fall under that category. m.o.p 00:37, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Thanks
- Thank you. I've unlocked the article for whatever may come. If I'm needed again, feel free to let me know. Thanks for the kind words again, m.o.p 05:12, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
reminder
- We're still waiting to see if the user understands COI policy (per Ed's question). I'll prod the user and see if they'll answer. talk) 19:20, 30 September 2011 (UTC)]
Nextel logo deleted
- Mmm, good point. What's the link to the logo in question? m.o.p 01:33, 2 October 2011 (UTC)
Support of Sage City SymphonyYou deleted this page before I had a chance to go back in and add the stuff that you wanted to see, including the links within Wikipedia to important composers such as Lou Callabro (who started this orchestra and cites it in his Wikipedia page) and Susan Hurley whose work we premiered (SC is also mentioned in her Wikipedia entry). (Let alone links about the works we have performed.) And we have a web site at www.sagecitysymphony.org, have existed for over 35 yrs and are a significant cultural resource in the Bennington area such that we receive grants from local, statewide and national foundations.
I broke my wrist last weekend and am doing one-handed pecking so it'll take me a few days to get that loaded in. We are going out for a bit now, but I would appreciate your undeleting the page so that I don't have to re-invent the starting part when I go back in tomorrow to add links. Or delete it entirely so that I can start fresh - at this point either would work as long as I can start some serious work on it tomorrow. I am the webmaster by the way, so I do have access to content and more links.
Thank you, Celia Murray — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.228.127.119 (talk) 14:22, 1 October 2011 (UTC)
- It looks like fixed everything up. Best of luck, m.o.p 01:35, 2 October 2011 (UTC)]
Reply on Deterence's talk page
MA
After the beating you took you deserve a cold one--on me! Thanks for being fair and balanced – Lionel (talk) 03:55, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
- Hey, thanks! Glad to help out. :) m.o.p 03:56, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
Deletion of Mau5trap Recordings
--neocharles (talk) 07:33, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Existence does not equal notability - the subject has to be notable to get a Wikipedia page. m.o.p 12:05, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
Questoin re: AIV
- Addendum, actually, I read it very clearly in WP:VANDNOT: "Uploading or using material on Wikipedia in violation of Wikipedia's copyright policies is prohibited, but is not vandalism unless the user does so maliciously or fails to heed warnings." So if a person fails to heed warnings it is vandalism. My mistake here was that I only warned once. --Muhandes (talk) 12:29, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Eh, technically it is vandalism, but the user seems to be trying to improve the Wikipedia - that desire to help is misplaced in this case, as they seem to think that using copyrighted content is actually better. Weird. For most cases, yes, you should report copyvio to AIV - as long as they've been warned sufficiently. m.o.p 12:42, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- OK, he now did it again and the time stamp is after your last warning. Is it vandalism now? --Muhandes (talk) 12:32, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Yeah, if they're outright ignoring warnings. I've blocked for three days. m.o.p 12:40, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
Classmusic
- Oh, I know. But if somebody's lied to my face about using another account - and to other editors working on the article - I'm not about to let them go without a repercussion or two. I'd like Almost-instinct and Voceditnore to look over the article and fix up anything shifty. Also, I'd like Classmusic to respond to my warning, instead of blanking it and ignoring like they have to the above-named editors.
- So, in short, I know that COI doesn't bar editing, but it's enough of a concern that, given the user's recent behaviour, I'll stop them from doing anything until we've figured things out. This isn't too rouge-y, is it? I didn't hear that. Perhaps he is unaware of the sockpuppet investigation findings. Anyhow it seems that DeltaQuad has also blocked the Classmusic account. I left a note on his page about using the unblock template, but re-iterated that he needs to read the COI and Autobiography guidelines and stick to them scrupulously, if he gets unblocked. In the Opera and Classical Music WikiProjects, we get a lot of articles for performers, ensembles, etc. created by their agents and PR people, and often themselves. In my experience, the best I can hope for after one of these tussles is that they'll edit their article according to the guidelines in future. I have yet to find a single one who has ever contributed anything else to Wikipedia. Their only interest in the project is as a PR tool. Having said that, at least it results (after much red-pencilling from other editors) in one new article on a notable subject that we didn't have before and in a small way redresses the pop culture systemic bias here. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 13:40, 5 October 2011 (UTC)]
Danish election
- Never mind, it's been pulled by another admin. All the best, Jenks24 (talk) 11:03, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry about that! I was busy all day and didn't get your message until now. Thanks for letting me know, though! Cheers, m.o.p 19:51, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
3RRHey there! :)
Well WP:CRYSTAL has wined down, however, there's currently a
The Bad Girls Club (season 7). I have notified the two users [32], [33]. The evidence can be found here. They are having an edit-conflict on how the "Duration of cast" should be presented. Since there's no rules regarding anything like that, and it was made up about a year ago, I couldn't warned them to stop their e/c with anything except the 3RR rule. Maybe they need an admin to tell them to stop, so that's why I came to you :) Thanks, Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 01:17, 6 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Temporary page protection requested. Calabe1992 (talk) 01:29, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
- Replied there. m.o.p 08:20, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
Talk Page on Militant Atheism - Introduction Section
- The update is appreciated, thanks very much. I've been dealing with life for the past two weeks, but I'll be back to close that discussion tonight or tomorrow. Thanks again, m.o.p 22:03, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
- Just bringing this up again, given the current state of this section. I believe the discussion will be archived automatically if not closed. I'm sorry if I sound pushy with you having a lot on your plate of late. If you would prefer, I could alert User:Fastily instead. Turnsalso (talk) 16:55, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
ITN
- I knew that tab I closed had unfinished business on it... thanks. 2008 University of Central Arkansas shootings is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.
The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2008 University of Central Arkansas shootings(2nd nomination) until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on good quality evidence, and our policies and guidelines.
Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article.
talk 14:00, 1 September 2011 (UTC)]
Hey
- Done! Both your userpage and the transcluded page are protected. Cheers, « ₣M₣ » 04:09, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Restored. m.o.p 05:21, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
]
User talk:Joshua the Independent
- My mistake - my block script auto-filled the edit summary. The block was issued due to the user's newfound will to disrupt Wikipedia intentionally. Their previous contributions are welcome, but this behaviour necessitates administrative action. m.o.p 21:52, 13 September 2011 (UTC)
Say hi to your imaginary girlfriend for me
- Well, I do love getting hate mail. Thanks for the laugh! Cheers, m.o.p 05:17, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
...further to the above lovely note, I weighed in on Calabe's talk page - there appears to be more confusion here than at first glance. bou·le·var·dier (talk) 05:19, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
Sorry to drop by again, but Silentsizzlingsausage (talk · contribs) would appear to be a duck. bou·le·var·dier (talk) 05:31, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
- No, it's not an issue! Thanks for the note, blocked. Cheers, WP:SPI. Thanks again, m.o.p 06:13, 14 September 2011 (UTC)]
I have to admit ...
- See the above section. The link is apparently a very subtle spam link that Calabe is removing, and socks are springing up to revert him. Swarm u / t 10:20, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
Moderation
- Alright, I'll make my way back. Thanks for letting me know! m.o.p 05:18, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
User:12.139.96.228
- To be honest, this case is perplexing. Half of this user's edits are constructive (mostly sourced), the other half aren't sourced - and the user won't reply to anybody. I'm also too busy to go through every edit and confirm whether or not it's good. I forgot about this for a while - I'll think about it tonight and figure something out for tomorrow. Thanks for reminding me! m.o.p 05:18, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
Whoops
- Whoops! Must not have been looking when I ran my block script. Thanks for letting me know, I've reblocked them for a far shorter (technically, an infinitely shorter) time. Cheers, m.o.p 22:58, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
Ashleyleggat404
- You're fully right in that the blanking policy covers indefinite blocks. I've removed the user's talk page rights as a result. Thanks again! m.o.p 00:28, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkback
Moderation
- If you look into this please consider whether Anupam's actions on the talk page and the entry itself are violations of WP:OWN. He's been driving off those he disagrees with by bludgening them to death with argument and heavily policing the entry claiming that there is a consensus written in stone despite many dissenting voices. Others have taken to simply calling him "the article's owner." I have had enough of this behavior personally and left him a message about it on his talk page. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:52, 20 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Dear User:Master of Puppets, the above user has misrepresented the occurrences at the article. I started another Introduction discussion at the article's talk page but User:Griswaldo has chosen to edit war over a second NPOV tag, despite the fact that one already exists in the article. He has done so despite the fact that the Introduction is being discussed in a peaceful manner at the talk page, in violation of your injunction: "We've only got consensus on this proposed versions (and loose consensus at that) - please do not attempt to subvert said consensus by making undiscussed changes." I have posted a message on his talk page about this behaviour. Nevertheless, I also do not wish to argue with the user personally and would prefer if you could go back to moderating the discussion between the two parties at the talk page. Thanks for taking the time to read this message. With regards, AnupamTalk 20:58, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- His "injunction?" Adding a neutrality tag to a specific sentence which an editor disputes the neutrality of is hardly "subverting the consensus by making undiscussed changes." Please stop wikilawyering to get your way. There is a growing consensus against your position regarding this article in general as well, despite your aggressive policing of the entry and the talk page. See ]
- I just thought that I would mention that User:Griswaldo, after seeing this message, just now decided to comment in the discussion rather than edit war against consensus further. Thanks for taking the time to read this message. With regards, AnupamTalk 21:51, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- "Edit war against consensus further?" My comment there has nothing to do with your message here. I've made three total edits to this entry ever. One was a copy edit in June, another was reverting an IP vandal, and the third was the revert of your Ownership edit. Please do not insinuate that I'm a edit warrior on this page. It is disingenuous.Griswaldo (talk) 22:08, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Thank you all for approaching me with your concerns.
- Obviously, I do not support Anupam - this is because I'm remaining a neutral third party, and, therefore, can't take sides. However, Griswaldo: please keep in mind that I did ask for all discussion to take place on the talk page. Why not just add your complaints to the talk page? It would have been much easier to discuss.
- I do agree that adding a NPOV tag, while slightly redundant, isn't horrible, but your intent seems to have been to stir discussion on that particular section, discussion that would be much more appropriate on the talk page.
- As for your and Snalwibma's concerns of Anupam trying to 'own' the article, I'm curious as to what you two mean; what 'delusions'?
- Also, Griswaldo, I don't think Anupam meant to insinuate you are an edit warrior (though this is just my take) - rather, they wanted to add the note that you've weighed in on discussion. m.o.p 22:10, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- your intent seems to have been to stir discussion on that particular section - No that's incorrect. I didn't add this tag, I simply reverted Anupam's attempt to own the page when he removed it. I agreed with JimWae's addition of the tag and found Anupam's removal to be unwarranted and a display of ownership.Griswaldo (talk) 22:16, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Note that, for all intents and purposes, reverting somebody is adding whatever is included in your edit, regardless of who put it there first. You revert a removal, you're agreeing with the edition you're reverting to - simple.
- And, if you agreed with JimWae, then we go back to what I was saying earlier - say so on the talk page. Two of you agree? Great! That's closer to consensus. But it means nothing if you express your support by reverting removals.
- Again, as I've asked multiple times, please stop saying that Anupam is owning anything without giving me evidence of it first. m.o.p 22:22, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Dear User:Master of Puppets, thank you for your reply to all of us. The reason User:Snalwibma stated that I was attempting to "own" the article was because I reverted an undiscussed removal from the article, which not only myself, but two other users objected to. In fact, two anonymous IP Addresses also reverted User:Snalwibma. I was open to compromise on the issue and stated that I would accept User:Turnsalso's compromise on the issue. I kindly request you to look at that discussion yourself and get an honest reading of it. Also, the only reason I removed the second NPOV tag was because there was already one present, which I did not remove. I only reverted the addition of a second NPOV tag once and even explained myself on the talk page. When I went to the talk page, I found rude accusations and an anti-collaborative spirit, despite the fact that I have been nothing but polite. I hope this helps. With regards, AnupamTalk 22:25, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry - I know I should not rise to the bait, but I have to object to the comment "The reason User:Snalwibma stated that I was attempting to 'own' the article was because I reverted an undiscussed removal ..." How dare Anupam presume to know what is in my mind! The reason I describe Anupam's attitude to the article as one of ownership is because that is how s/he behaves - "policing" every edit, pronouncing on whether s/he "accepts" or "rejects" it, peremptorily reverting anything s/he does not like, without discussion, presuming to know others' motives, and judging them as fit/unfit to contribute to the article. This has been going on for weeks, if not months. It is impossible to discuss the content of the article, let alone improve the text, because everything is filtered through the approval/disapproval of the article's self-appointed guardian, Anupam. tendentious or disruptive when they bring up certain issues, even when they are clearly in the majority. That is not collaborative. I stopped editing the article heavily because of those issues. I don't have any delusions that my opinion is worth more than anyone else's here, but I would think that the large number of established, experienced editors who are all saying there's a problem, would indicate something. — Jess· Δ♥ 19:45, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
Please reconsider your full protection of Militant atheist
- In case you didn't notice, I asked that people think twice about pointing fingers at each other. If you'd like to start a sockpuppetry investigation, let me know, and we can take that avenue - however, don't accuse other editors of ownership without substance. If you think Anupam is trying to own things, give me something. Diffs, edits, anything. I'll check it out for you, but right now, baseless accusations are not what I'm looking for.
- Also, notice that I protected the article with your edit being the last one. How is that validating the very person you've been reverting?
- The protection will stay until consensus is reached. m.o.p 22:19, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Because protection is what he wants quite clearly. He's stalling conversation and shouting down people on the talk page, where, if you have a look, you'll see he's clearly in the minority. Because of your "injunction" as he calls it, he also claims that no matter how many people agree with a certain change it is illegitimate. I'll be happy to gather some diffs, but my first message to you above was to please look into the situation carefully before acting on it. Did you do that and come to the conclusion that I'm wrong or did you not head that request? Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:29, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Yes, I did heed your request. I don't see any ownership behaviour from Anupam, though, being involved in multiple disputes, I didn't have the time to read every last word on the page, so you're free to provide evidence. However, from what I can see, Anupam's last proposal was supported by the majority - not to count (and I don't mean to imply that I decide where consensus lies by looking at pure numbers), but from looking at pure supports versus opposes, eight people (nine including Anupam) support while four oppose. How does that make Anupam's views a minority? m.o.p 22:37, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- It depends on what view you are talking about. The current RFC on the introduction is something that most people don't even want to engage because most people think this very entry should be split up and integrated into other entries. I reluctantly engaged the RfC just now myself. The last time the more serious question about the entry was asked, several of the new commentators were not around, and there was "no consensus" found because the opposing side was chalk full of SPAs and editors with a view that is outright hostile to atheism (which is a legitimate view to hold, but it is a minority view). Let me find you some diffs.Griswaldo (talk) 22:43, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- User:Griswaldo, that is exactly the issue: you do not want to collaborate with other users on the talk page, which is why you were reluctant to participate in the current RfC. Moreover, there were several SPA's on the side of the opposition as well, including WP:NPOV. In addition, the split was again recently discussed and the specific case to do so was refuted by several editors. As such, there was no consensus for it. I hope this helps. With regards, AnupamTalk 22:52, 20 September 2011 (UTC)]
- No. You are trying to write an article that violates WP:SYNTH because it conflates New Atheism with oppressive communist regimes and their histories of violence. That's hardly NPOV. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:59, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
Hi m.o.p., as someone who occasionally looks at that page (and then washes my hands), I just want to compliment you as having done the right thing in full protecting. By way of unsolicited advice to the involved editors, the best thing they could do is to allow The Wrong Version to sit there a good long time, and devote their energy to other things. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:54, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
]
Yes, please reconsider your full protection of
WP:RS—deserve protection against misinformed reverts. Thanks Geremia (talk) 16:12, 22 September 2011 (UTC)]
Diffs of
- I'm not really sure where the ownership is here; nowhere in our policies is it stated that a user can't promote their RFC on the subject talk page. If it's ongoing and they'd like to move it to the forefront, what's wrong with that? More so, some of your summaries seem inaccurate - in that last diff, you state that Anupam is removing images, yet I only see Anupam adding an image (the peace dove that's at the top of the page). Also, you use repeating examples. m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Well clearly the last diff was wrong. Thanks for the vote of confidence. There are no repeat examples nor inaccurate summaries, just a mistaken copy paste of the second to last diff to the last position as well. I have fixed it. Cheers.
- Using "consensus claims from one RfC to reject changes made to article content
- Same as above. Using the "consensus" bludgeon to get his way. Please note that clearly we ought to edit by consensus, but this consensus is highly disputed, and IMO not there in the first place. The real problem is the way in which Anupam decides to use it like a trump card to remove changes he doesn't like. Ask yourself if all changes post "consensus" have been removed or just the ones Anupam decided he wanted removed.
Master of Puppets do you need more diffs or is this enough?Griswaldo (talk) 23:31, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Well I need more diffs because your "evidence" so far looks like a desperate attempt to incriminate an editor who has been very successful in persuading his colleagues to adopt his proposals. Anupam has presented his proposals, argued the merits and persuaded many editors. Anything you want to tell us about why you're having difficulty doing likewise? – Lionel (talk) 06:02, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- I don't see this is as conclusive evidence, either. And, it should be said - if people are editing against established consensus, then people are free to re-evaluate consensus, but edit-warring against it doesn't make much sense. m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- If not ownership then what is this - [28], [29], [30]? He removes two RfCs started by another editor, and revolving around the question that many of us actually find to be the fundamental question to answer regarding the entry. Then he edit wars to keep these RfCs off the page, claiming again to have some sort of authority stemming from your prior actions. If you aren't willing to do something here I'm going to another administrator and I'm going to ask for your initial "consensus," your strong arm administrating, and your lack of action here to be reviewed as well. Thanks.Griswaldo (talk) 17:08, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Anupam has already apologized for reverting those RfC additions, and we've moved past it. He also didn't claim to have administrative authority, but was waiting for my approval. We've cleared this up, it's not an issue. So no, I'm not going to take any action (as I've said here and on ANI). Now, if you'd like to threaten me and tell me that, since I'm not cooperating with your wills, you'll go to another administrator, that's fine - as I've said, you can seek outside opinions - but remember to keep a cool head, because borderline threats are not appreciated. m.o.p 21:49, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- It was not a threat, "borderline" or otherwise. You are conveniently ignoring a growing number of voices who are all saying the same thing - there is an ownership problem here. The deletion issue has not been "cleared up" as far as I'm concerned. Whenever it is mentioned Anupam insists that he did not "unilaterally" delete the RfCs from the page, which is a blatant distortion, since that is exactly what he did. He continues to act as a policeman at the page, and yes he does continue to cite your authority. Did you bother to read the many diffs I posted above in the second two sections? I will quote three random examples from those I provided for you if you want.
- When he first deleted the two RfCs he wrote: "rv - see discussion with reviewing administrator; approval needed to start another RfC while one is already occurring."
- When he deleted a fact tag that JimWae put into the lede: "rv excessive tagging per talk; tag is already extant in header; do not subvert previous consensus but gain consensus for potential additions per administrative notice"
- When he rejected another recent change to the entry: "accepted edits by User:Jkhwiki; rv removal of longstanding referenced content - see discussion on talk page and gain consensus for action per administrative injunction"
- In talk page comments and in edit summaries he consistently does the same thing. He refers to your authority, either directly or indirectly through your "notice" or your "injunction" as he likes to call it. I never said the claimed to have administrative authority, I said that he's using your authority, by way of your comments, such as the closure of the AfD to bully people. Do you deny that he citing your comments, because if you do then I must have fabricated those quotes. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:32, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
If you say "If you don't do A, then I'm going to go and do B", that's a threat. Anyway, that's not the issue - we've already covered all the issues with the RfC reverting, and Anupam won't do it again. Why keep raising hell over it?
We've already covered everything you bring up. And no, I'm not denying anything. I'm just saying this, and it's very simple: I don't think there has been any blatant ownership here. That's my judgment. If you disagree, again, feel free to raise this with another administrator or on ANI. m.o.p 23:12, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Regarding the new RFC, I still think there has not passed yet too much time since the last discussion about splitting the article. As far as I knew, repeating these sorts of debates (like splitting, deleting, renaming) before a larger amount of time has passed (like 6 months) is usually discouraged. And as others have also argued earlier, even if having multiple RFCs is possible, it's not very useful, and the new RFC seems to discourage further discussion about improving the lead introduction. So preventing multiple RFCs (and also a RFC about an issue debated not too long ago) does not look to me like evidence of bad faith intentions. Cody7777777 (talk) 21:37, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Cody, would you mind linking me to the previous RfC on splitting? m.o.p 21:49, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- The previous attempt to split the article can be found here. Cody7777777 (talk) 21:55, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Response
Yes, it does. Thanks, m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Dear User:Master of Puppets, I just noticed that User:Binksternet started another RfC while a current one is occurring. Is this appropriate? I reverted the addition motioning for one until your response is confirmed. If it is acceptable, then I apologize and will revert my edit. I look forward to your response. With regards, AnupamTalk 15:14, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'll form my reply on ANI. m.o.p 17:12, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- When you do please take into account my comment just above, regarding Anupam's edit warring to remove talk page comments (namely these RfCs) posted by others on the talk page. If you still don't think this is WP:OWN then clearly other administrators are needed here.Griswaldo (talk) 17:15, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Dear User:Griswaldo, how is going to a neutral mediator to address the issue owning the article? I acknowledge that the article is in dispute and as a result, I am asking an administrator for advice in this matter, NOT handling things on my own, as you have done by edit warring. Your WP:OWN allegations have not only been dismissed by this administrator, but by several other users, including, User:Lionelt, User:Cody7777777 and User:NYyankees51. Thanks, AnupamTalk 17:27, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- In reply to Griswaldo: reverting the RfCs was a mistake, but we've cleared that up now. As Anupam has stated at ANI, the intent was not to discourage discussion. If you think my judgment is compromised, you're welcome to seek another administrator's input. m.o.p 21:04, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- And as further evidence of WP:OWN, see this. Anupam adds a comment to everything that anyone else says, as if he/she is the owner of the article and everyone else is a subordinate contributor. This particular instance is pretty benign (although it clutters up the talk page with an unnecessary comment that merely says "I agree"), but I do think that Anupam at least needs to learn how to avoid giving the appearance of thinking he/she owns the article, and to desist from chipping in and saying the same thing over and over again, which almost makes meaningful discussion impossible! SNALWIBMA ( talk - contribs ) 17:31, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- While the input is appreciated, as I've said before, making allegations of ownership without hard evidence isn't going to get us anywhere. Anupam is not stopping others from discussing changes or forming consensus, and that's all that matters - refactoring the talk page or commenting on an issue is not against policy, and I'm not going to tell someone to stop editing because it "looks" like they're doing something wrong. As said above, you're welcome to request another administrator's insight if you wish. m.o.p 21:04, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
COIHi
you've helped me out before, with a conflict of interest problem, so having much more experience than me on wikipedia, I thought I would be bold enough to ask again for help.
Similar problem to last, User_talk:Hobbycraft is editing the HOBBYCRAFT article and making changes that aren't citably right. I think the user name suggest and history suggests a conflict of interest case.
Can you please, speak to them addressing this issue.
Thank you very much for your help.
Markcoulter50 (talk) 22:27, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
- I've blocked that user for username violations. Thanks a lot for letting me know! Keep up the great work, m.o.p 23:00, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkbackcausa sui (talk) 18:47, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Hello. You have a new message at causa sui's talk page. causa sui (talk) 20:54, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Problematic editing on militant atheism
- I hope it's not considered defamatory to repeat the final line: "I merely present the diffs above, and let others draw their own conclusions. Is this a duck? Does it quack? You decide.". Unfortunately, the concerned community no longer has that opportunity. What did you decide on their behalf? Does this duck quack, or not? bobrayner (talk) 15:42, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- It's not your wording, it's the very idea of it. Going to what's allegorically a public place and shouting, "Hey, everybody, this man is a criminal!" is one step below blatantly forming a lynch mob. As I've said, I have no problem with your wording or evidence, just your location of choice. Wikipedia is not, unfortunately, a democracy - letting others draw their conclusions and voice their opinions is not how a sockpuppet investigation works.
- So yes, please don't go restoring any of that section. We're not discussing editors, we're discussing the content they produce. Anything else has a sub-board to deal with it (like WP:SPI).
- Hopefully that clears things up! I'll be happy to answer any more questions should you have them. Cheers, m.o.p 15:48, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Hello User:Bobrayner, I noticed the section you created on the militant atheism talk page. If you do feel the way you do about User:Turnsalso and the anonymous IP Addresses, you can take this up with WP:SPI. Thanks, AnupamTalk 15:52, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
Are you kidding my MoP? Above your write: Going to what's allegorically a public place and shouting, "Hey, everybody, this man is a criminal!" is one step below blatantly forming a lynch mob. AND We're not discussing editors, we're discussing the content they produce. Yet you call this edit by Lionelt "good faith," at WQA? MoP, I would not ask you to agree with me or to like me, but can I please ask you not to insult me with these double standards.Griswaldo (talk) 16:18, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
]
- Griswaldo, I mean no offense when I say this, but I'd appreciate it if you stayed out of discussions which didn't involve you. Also, please don't put words in my mouth. Thanks, m.o.p 16:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I have not put words in your mouth. You said that you would assume good faith about Lionel. If you "assume good faith" it means you assume his edits were in "good faith." If you did not intend that meaning I suggest you reconsider what you wrote. Also, if you want me to "stay out of discussion which don't involve me" then I suggest your first order of business should be to do the same thing yourself. You decided to post at WQA, when there was no mention of you or anything you've done in that thread. Once again, I expect people not to practice double standards. So as long as you cannot show me that you will treat me as you ask to be treated yourself, I will not oblige you. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:21, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Please stop bickering. I'm not quite sure what you're trying to accomplish here. I've already explained what I meant when I said assuming good faith, but I'll explain again: I assumed that Lionelt was not hounding or deliberately haranguing you. I did not say, at any point, that his edit content was good faith, and I've told him not to edit like that again. So please stop accusing me of saying things I haven't said.
- Also, I posted in WQA because, as a mediator in this case and as an administrator, it's my duty to weigh in on administrative noticeboards, especially when the case is an ongoing discussion I've been participating in for three months. It is not your duty to weigh in on discussions on my talk page that don't concern you. I hope the distinction is clear here. m.o.p 20:33, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I think you are confused about something. Content is never good faith. "Editing in good faith" and "good faith edits" refers to the intent of the editor always. It has nothing to do with content. My assumption that you also felt the edits were appropriate comes from the fact that you did not say they weren't appropriate and clearly feel that his intentions were good. If you'd like to set the record straight on that issue you still can. I've asked you twice now to discuss the actual edits that are the focal point of the thread. Also, I moved the thread to ANI, per the suggestion of the editor who marked it "resolved."Griswaldo (talk) 20:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- See Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#User:Lionelt_--_following_my_past_edits_to_drum_up_support_against_me. FYI, I copy pasted the entire discussion because both you and Collect were critical of my initial post and I thought it was the right thing to do to preserve that criticism in the record of the conversation. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:43, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- In reply to your first paragraph: I'm going to give up now, as it seems you're misunderstanding most of what I type, but you're the one who stated that the content was not good faith (as you said, not appropriate), and I agreed - I referred to his intent in replying to you, and said that I assumed good faith in his motives, not his replies. I can't really say that in a clearer way, so my apologies if it's hard to understand. Also, as I've already said, I've left a message for Lionelt about his edits, so clearly I do not feel they're appropriate. m.o.p 20:57, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I, too, find these double standards vexing.
- Which diff is defamatory?
- I had hitherto thought that people on the article talkpage might like to be aware of potential problems with votestacking on the article talkpage (and 3rr evasion, of course). Would it be permitted to add a link to that list of diffs when it's in a different place, or would you consider that defamatory too? bobrayner (talk) 16:23, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- As I said, the information is not defamatory, but the way it's presented is - we have specific processes available to pursue should one feel there are sockpuppets about. However, calling someone out with the intent of informing the community is overstepping your authority and damaging to the accused's character. Also, there's no way a community discussion about whether or not one editor is a sockpuppet can end in anything other than a sockpuppet investigation anyway.
- So, in closing, please don't bring issues like this to the talk page. If you're concerned about votestacking, take it to the appropriate venue - if your concerns are validated, we'll take measures against said puppets. Cheers, m.o.p 16:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I am very disappointed that it's no longer permissible to raise problems with article-editing on the article talkpage. Previous concerns about sockpuppetry were simply ignored; the difference this time is that it's backed by lots of diffs.
- I'm fairly confident that the people concerned have sufficient technical nous to make checkuser draw a blank. And, let's be entirely honest, within minutes of me creating an SPI, an admin of the right persuasion will be getting an email suggesting that an SPI needs their attention. And SPI does not see offsite coordination by a facebook group &c. Finally, any null result at SPI will be used at the article in much the same way as previous administrative decisions have been. So, I do not believe that an SPI will improve either the article, or the encyclopædia as a whole. bobrayner (talk) 17:08, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- If you don't think the pre-existing methods set in place for situations like this are sufficient, you can always raise that concern at the village pump or suggest a policy revision - however, SPI is the venue for these requests, and the only venue. The talk page can not substitute. m.o.p 17:10, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
76.228.226.122Thank you for blocking the anonymous user, who is being counterproductive and rude. (although I think the block should have been one week, but I guess ok at least)
Can you also please try to hide the edit summaries of these edits if possible?
This and
this
Thanks and regards, talk 05:04, 26 September 2011 (UTC)]
- I'll extend the block if this behaviour continues after the block period is over.
- As for the edit summaries, those don't warrant hiding - I apologize for their content, but they don't meet the criteria of what I should remove. It's best just to ignore them for now. Cheers, m.o.p 05:13, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
- Okay, good to know, if I did nothing wrong, no permanent block will be enforced. The IP does not volunteer on WP as an admin and so the disproportionately out of line comments and threats of his should be ignored. --talk 05:19, 26 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Sounds good. We only hide extremely offensive revisions; milder ones stay in the edit history. Thanks again for bringing this to our attention! Cheers, m.o.p 05:31, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
Email
Jasper Deng (talk) 05:29, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
- Reading. talk) 06:00, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Bad Girls Club
- I've blocked Junebea for 2 days for disregarding warnings. m.o.p 20:30, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks for helping :) Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 21:06, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkback
- And again.Griswaldo (talk) 04:24, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
- And again ... but maybe the last. You can settle this question once and for all. See the talk page.Griswaldo (talk) 06:09, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'm sure I'm not alone in wanting to hear your replies to the last responses posed to you at that page. IMO, I don't know why you went down the road you did, but as far as I can tell you're blatantly misrepesenting facts about your own actions when people are brining concerns to you. You might think that since you closed the RfC the matter is settled, but it is not. You're actions have not made my life any more pleasant in the last few days vis-a-vis trying to deal with Anupam's disruption and I think you owe us all answers. So please revisit this thread and deal with the open questions. Thanks.Griswaldo (talk) 02:19, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
- I invite you to stop asking the same question again and again. This would be appreciated. Thanks, m.o.p 02:33, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Block question
- No, I just block obviously bad-faith accounts on sight. Advertising/spam accounts fall under that category. m.o.p 00:37, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Thanks
- Thank you. I've unlocked the article for whatever may come. If I'm needed again, feel free to let me know. Thanks for the kind words again, m.o.p 05:12, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
reminder
- We're still waiting to see if the user understands COI policy (per Ed's question). I'll prod the user and see if they'll answer. talk) 19:20, 30 September 2011 (UTC)]
Nextel logo deleted
- Mmm, good point. What's the link to the logo in question? m.o.p 01:33, 2 October 2011 (UTC)
Support of Sage City SymphonyYou deleted this page before I had a chance to go back in and add the stuff that you wanted to see, including the links within Wikipedia to important composers such as Lou Callabro (who started this orchestra and cites it in his Wikipedia page) and Susan Hurley whose work we premiered (SC is also mentioned in her Wikipedia entry). (Let alone links about the works we have performed.) And we have a web site at www.sagecitysymphony.org, have existed for over 35 yrs and are a significant cultural resource in the Bennington area such that we receive grants from local, statewide and national foundations.
I broke my wrist last weekend and am doing one-handed pecking so it'll take me a few days to get that loaded in. We are going out for a bit now, but I would appreciate your undeleting the page so that I don't have to re-invent the starting part when I go back in tomorrow to add links. Or delete it entirely so that I can start fresh - at this point either would work as long as I can start some serious work on it tomorrow. I am the webmaster by the way, so I do have access to content and more links.
Thank you, Celia Murray — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.228.127.119 (talk) 14:22, 1 October 2011 (UTC)
- It looks like fixed everything up. Best of luck, m.o.p 01:35, 2 October 2011 (UTC)]
Reply on Deterence's talk page
MA
After the beating you took you deserve a cold one--on me! Thanks for being fair and balanced – Lionel (talk) 03:55, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
- Hey, thanks! Glad to help out. :) m.o.p 03:56, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
Deletion of Mau5trap Recordings
--neocharles (talk) 07:33, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Existence does not equal notability - the subject has to be notable to get a Wikipedia page. m.o.p 12:05, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
Questoin re: AIV
- Addendum, actually, I read it very clearly in WP:VANDNOT: "Uploading or using material on Wikipedia in violation of Wikipedia's copyright policies is prohibited, but is not vandalism unless the user does so maliciously or fails to heed warnings." So if a person fails to heed warnings it is vandalism. My mistake here was that I only warned once. --Muhandes (talk) 12:29, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Eh, technically it is vandalism, but the user seems to be trying to improve the Wikipedia - that desire to help is misplaced in this case, as they seem to think that using copyrighted content is actually better. Weird. For most cases, yes, you should report copyvio to AIV - as long as they've been warned sufficiently. m.o.p 12:42, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- OK, he now did it again and the time stamp is after your last warning. Is it vandalism now? --Muhandes (talk) 12:32, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Yeah, if they're outright ignoring warnings. I've blocked for three days. m.o.p 12:40, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
Classmusic
- Oh, I know. But if somebody's lied to my face about using another account - and to other editors working on the article - I'm not about to let them go without a repercussion or two. I'd like Almost-instinct and Voceditnore to look over the article and fix up anything shifty. Also, I'd like Classmusic to respond to my warning, instead of blanking it and ignoring like they have to the above-named editors.
- So, in short, I know that COI doesn't bar editing, but it's enough of a concern that, given the user's recent behaviour, I'll stop them from doing anything until we've figured things out. This isn't too rouge-y, is it? I didn't hear that. Perhaps he is unaware of the sockpuppet investigation findings. Anyhow it seems that DeltaQuad has also blocked the Classmusic account. I left a note on his page about using the unblock template, but re-iterated that he needs to read the COI and Autobiography guidelines and stick to them scrupulously, if he gets unblocked. In the Opera and Classical Music WikiProjects, we get a lot of articles for performers, ensembles, etc. created by their agents and PR people, and often themselves. In my experience, the best I can hope for after one of these tussles is that they'll edit their article according to the guidelines in future. I have yet to find a single one who has ever contributed anything else to Wikipedia. Their only interest in the project is as a PR tool. Having said that, at least it results (after much red-pencilling from other editors) in one new article on a notable subject that we didn't have before and in a small way redresses the pop culture systemic bias here. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 13:40, 5 October 2011 (UTC)]
Danish election
- Never mind, it's been pulled by another admin. All the best, Jenks24 (talk) 11:03, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry about that! I was busy all day and didn't get your message until now. Thanks for letting me know, though! Cheers, m.o.p 19:51, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
3RRHey there! :)
Well WP:CRYSTAL has wined down, however, there's currently a
The Bad Girls Club (season 7). I have notified the two users [32], [33]. The evidence can be found here. They are having an edit-conflict on how the "Duration of cast" should be presented. Since there's no rules regarding anything like that, and it was made up about a year ago, I couldn't warned them to stop their e/c with anything except the 3RR rule. Maybe they need an admin to tell them to stop, so that's why I came to you :) Thanks, Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 01:17, 6 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Temporary page protection requested. Calabe1992 (talk) 01:29, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
- Just bringing this up again, given the current state of this section. I believe the discussion will be archived automatically if not closed. I'm sorry if I sound pushy with you having a lot on your plate of late. If you would prefer, I could alert User:Fastily instead. Turnsalso (talk) 16:55, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
ITN
- I knew that tab I closed had unfinished business on it... thanks. 2008 University of Central Arkansas shootings is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.
The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2008 University of Central Arkansas shootings(2nd nomination) until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on good quality evidence, and our policies and guidelines.
Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article.
talk 14:00, 1 September 2011 (UTC)]
Hey
- Done! Both your userpage and the transcluded page are protected. Cheers, « ₣M₣ » 04:09, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Restored. m.o.p 05:21, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
]
User talk:Joshua the Independent
- My mistake - my block script auto-filled the edit summary. The block was issued due to the user's newfound will to disrupt Wikipedia intentionally. Their previous contributions are welcome, but this behaviour necessitates administrative action. m.o.p 21:52, 13 September 2011 (UTC)
Say hi to your imaginary girlfriend for me
- Well, I do love getting hate mail. Thanks for the laugh! Cheers, m.o.p 05:17, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
...further to the above lovely note, I weighed in on Calabe's talk page - there appears to be more confusion here than at first glance. bou·le·var·dier (talk) 05:19, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
Sorry to drop by again, but Silentsizzlingsausage (talk · contribs) would appear to be a duck. bou·le·var·dier (talk) 05:31, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
- No, it's not an issue! Thanks for the note, blocked. Cheers, WP:SPI. Thanks again, m.o.p 06:13, 14 September 2011 (UTC)]
I have to admit ...
- See the above section. The link is apparently a very subtle spam link that Calabe is removing, and socks are springing up to revert him. Swarm u / t 10:20, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
Moderation
- Alright, I'll make my way back. Thanks for letting me know! m.o.p 05:18, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
User:12.139.96.228
- To be honest, this case is perplexing. Half of this user's edits are constructive (mostly sourced), the other half aren't sourced - and the user won't reply to anybody. I'm also too busy to go through every edit and confirm whether or not it's good. I forgot about this for a while - I'll think about it tonight and figure something out for tomorrow. Thanks for reminding me! m.o.p 05:18, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
Whoops
- Whoops! Must not have been looking when I ran my block script. Thanks for letting me know, I've reblocked them for a far shorter (technically, an infinitely shorter) time. Cheers, m.o.p 22:58, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
Ashleyleggat404
- You're fully right in that the blanking policy covers indefinite blocks. I've removed the user's talk page rights as a result. Thanks again! m.o.p 00:28, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkback
Moderation
- If you look into this please consider whether Anupam's actions on the talk page and the entry itself are violations of WP:OWN. He's been driving off those he disagrees with by bludgening them to death with argument and heavily policing the entry claiming that there is a consensus written in stone despite many dissenting voices. Others have taken to simply calling him "the article's owner." I have had enough of this behavior personally and left him a message about it on his talk page. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:52, 20 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Dear User:Master of Puppets, the above user has misrepresented the occurrences at the article. I started another Introduction discussion at the article's talk page but User:Griswaldo has chosen to edit war over a second NPOV tag, despite the fact that one already exists in the article. He has done so despite the fact that the Introduction is being discussed in a peaceful manner at the talk page, in violation of your injunction: "We've only got consensus on this proposed versions (and loose consensus at that) - please do not attempt to subvert said consensus by making undiscussed changes." I have posted a message on his talk page about this behaviour. Nevertheless, I also do not wish to argue with the user personally and would prefer if you could go back to moderating the discussion between the two parties at the talk page. Thanks for taking the time to read this message. With regards, AnupamTalk 20:58, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- His "injunction?" Adding a neutrality tag to a specific sentence which an editor disputes the neutrality of is hardly "subverting the consensus by making undiscussed changes." Please stop wikilawyering to get your way. There is a growing consensus against your position regarding this article in general as well, despite your aggressive policing of the entry and the talk page. See ]
- I just thought that I would mention that User:Griswaldo, after seeing this message, just now decided to comment in the discussion rather than edit war against consensus further. Thanks for taking the time to read this message. With regards, AnupamTalk 21:51, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- "Edit war against consensus further?" My comment there has nothing to do with your message here. I've made three total edits to this entry ever. One was a copy edit in June, another was reverting an IP vandal, and the third was the revert of your Ownership edit. Please do not insinuate that I'm a edit warrior on this page. It is disingenuous.Griswaldo (talk) 22:08, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Thank you all for approaching me with your concerns.
- Obviously, I do not support Anupam - this is because I'm remaining a neutral third party, and, therefore, can't take sides. However, Griswaldo: please keep in mind that I did ask for all discussion to take place on the talk page. Why not just add your complaints to the talk page? It would have been much easier to discuss.
- I do agree that adding a NPOV tag, while slightly redundant, isn't horrible, but your intent seems to have been to stir discussion on that particular section, discussion that would be much more appropriate on the talk page.
- As for your and Snalwibma's concerns of Anupam trying to 'own' the article, I'm curious as to what you two mean; what 'delusions'?
- Also, Griswaldo, I don't think Anupam meant to insinuate you are an edit warrior (though this is just my take) - rather, they wanted to add the note that you've weighed in on discussion. m.o.p 22:10, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- your intent seems to have been to stir discussion on that particular section - No that's incorrect. I didn't add this tag, I simply reverted Anupam's attempt to own the page when he removed it. I agreed with JimWae's addition of the tag and found Anupam's removal to be unwarranted and a display of ownership.Griswaldo (talk) 22:16, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Note that, for all intents and purposes, reverting somebody is adding whatever is included in your edit, regardless of who put it there first. You revert a removal, you're agreeing with the edition you're reverting to - simple.
- And, if you agreed with JimWae, then we go back to what I was saying earlier - say so on the talk page. Two of you agree? Great! That's closer to consensus. But it means nothing if you express your support by reverting removals.
- Again, as I've asked multiple times, please stop saying that Anupam is owning anything without giving me evidence of it first. m.o.p 22:22, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Dear User:Master of Puppets, thank you for your reply to all of us. The reason User:Snalwibma stated that I was attempting to "own" the article was because I reverted an undiscussed removal from the article, which not only myself, but two other users objected to. In fact, two anonymous IP Addresses also reverted User:Snalwibma. I was open to compromise on the issue and stated that I would accept User:Turnsalso's compromise on the issue. I kindly request you to look at that discussion yourself and get an honest reading of it. Also, the only reason I removed the second NPOV tag was because there was already one present, which I did not remove. I only reverted the addition of a second NPOV tag once and even explained myself on the talk page. When I went to the talk page, I found rude accusations and an anti-collaborative spirit, despite the fact that I have been nothing but polite. I hope this helps. With regards, AnupamTalk 22:25, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry - I know I should not rise to the bait, but I have to object to the comment "The reason User:Snalwibma stated that I was attempting to 'own' the article was because I reverted an undiscussed removal ..." How dare Anupam presume to know what is in my mind! The reason I describe Anupam's attitude to the article as one of ownership is because that is how s/he behaves - "policing" every edit, pronouncing on whether s/he "accepts" or "rejects" it, peremptorily reverting anything s/he does not like, without discussion, presuming to know others' motives, and judging them as fit/unfit to contribute to the article. This has been going on for weeks, if not months. It is impossible to discuss the content of the article, let alone improve the text, because everything is filtered through the approval/disapproval of the article's self-appointed guardian, Anupam. tendentious or disruptive when they bring up certain issues, even when they are clearly in the majority. That is not collaborative. I stopped editing the article heavily because of those issues. I don't have any delusions that my opinion is worth more than anyone else's here, but I would think that the large number of established, experienced editors who are all saying there's a problem, would indicate something. — Jess· Δ♥ 19:45, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
Please reconsider your full protection of Militant atheist
- In case you didn't notice, I asked that people think twice about pointing fingers at each other. If you'd like to start a sockpuppetry investigation, let me know, and we can take that avenue - however, don't accuse other editors of ownership without substance. If you think Anupam is trying to own things, give me something. Diffs, edits, anything. I'll check it out for you, but right now, baseless accusations are not what I'm looking for.
- Also, notice that I protected the article with your edit being the last one. How is that validating the very person you've been reverting?
- The protection will stay until consensus is reached. m.o.p 22:19, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Because protection is what he wants quite clearly. He's stalling conversation and shouting down people on the talk page, where, if you have a look, you'll see he's clearly in the minority. Because of your "injunction" as he calls it, he also claims that no matter how many people agree with a certain change it is illegitimate. I'll be happy to gather some diffs, but my first message to you above was to please look into the situation carefully before acting on it. Did you do that and come to the conclusion that I'm wrong or did you not head that request? Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:29, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Yes, I did heed your request. I don't see any ownership behaviour from Anupam, though, being involved in multiple disputes, I didn't have the time to read every last word on the page, so you're free to provide evidence. However, from what I can see, Anupam's last proposal was supported by the majority - not to count (and I don't mean to imply that I decide where consensus lies by looking at pure numbers), but from looking at pure supports versus opposes, eight people (nine including Anupam) support while four oppose. How does that make Anupam's views a minority? m.o.p 22:37, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- It depends on what view you are talking about. The current RFC on the introduction is something that most people don't even want to engage because most people think this very entry should be split up and integrated into other entries. I reluctantly engaged the RfC just now myself. The last time the more serious question about the entry was asked, several of the new commentators were not around, and there was "no consensus" found because the opposing side was chalk full of SPAs and editors with a view that is outright hostile to atheism (which is a legitimate view to hold, but it is a minority view). Let me find you some diffs.Griswaldo (talk) 22:43, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- User:Griswaldo, that is exactly the issue: you do not want to collaborate with other users on the talk page, which is why you were reluctant to participate in the current RfC. Moreover, there were several SPA's on the side of the opposition as well, including WP:NPOV. In addition, the split was again recently discussed and the specific case to do so was refuted by several editors. As such, there was no consensus for it. I hope this helps. With regards, AnupamTalk 22:52, 20 September 2011 (UTC)]
- No. You are trying to write an article that violates WP:SYNTH because it conflates New Atheism with oppressive communist regimes and their histories of violence. That's hardly NPOV. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:59, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
Hi m.o.p., as someone who occasionally looks at that page (and then washes my hands), I just want to compliment you as having done the right thing in full protecting. By way of unsolicited advice to the involved editors, the best thing they could do is to allow The Wrong Version to sit there a good long time, and devote their energy to other things. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:54, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
]
Yes, please reconsider your full protection of
WP:RS—deserve protection against misinformed reverts. Thanks Geremia (talk) 16:12, 22 September 2011 (UTC)]
Diffs of
- I'm not really sure where the ownership is here; nowhere in our policies is it stated that a user can't promote their RFC on the subject talk page. If it's ongoing and they'd like to move it to the forefront, what's wrong with that? More so, some of your summaries seem inaccurate - in that last diff, you state that Anupam is removing images, yet I only see Anupam adding an image (the peace dove that's at the top of the page). Also, you use repeating examples. m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Well clearly the last diff was wrong. Thanks for the vote of confidence. There are no repeat examples nor inaccurate summaries, just a mistaken copy paste of the second to last diff to the last position as well. I have fixed it. Cheers.
- Using "consensus claims from one RfC to reject changes made to article content
- Same as above. Using the "consensus" bludgeon to get his way. Please note that clearly we ought to edit by consensus, but this consensus is highly disputed, and IMO not there in the first place. The real problem is the way in which Anupam decides to use it like a trump card to remove changes he doesn't like. Ask yourself if all changes post "consensus" have been removed or just the ones Anupam decided he wanted removed.
Master of Puppets do you need more diffs or is this enough?Griswaldo (talk) 23:31, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Well I need more diffs because your "evidence" so far looks like a desperate attempt to incriminate an editor who has been very successful in persuading his colleagues to adopt his proposals. Anupam has presented his proposals, argued the merits and persuaded many editors. Anything you want to tell us about why you're having difficulty doing likewise? – Lionel (talk) 06:02, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- I don't see this is as conclusive evidence, either. And, it should be said - if people are editing against established consensus, then people are free to re-evaluate consensus, but edit-warring against it doesn't make much sense. m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- If not ownership then what is this - [28], [29], [30]? He removes two RfCs started by another editor, and revolving around the question that many of us actually find to be the fundamental question to answer regarding the entry. Then he edit wars to keep these RfCs off the page, claiming again to have some sort of authority stemming from your prior actions. If you aren't willing to do something here I'm going to another administrator and I'm going to ask for your initial "consensus," your strong arm administrating, and your lack of action here to be reviewed as well. Thanks.Griswaldo (talk) 17:08, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Anupam has already apologized for reverting those RfC additions, and we've moved past it. He also didn't claim to have administrative authority, but was waiting for my approval. We've cleared this up, it's not an issue. So no, I'm not going to take any action (as I've said here and on ANI). Now, if you'd like to threaten me and tell me that, since I'm not cooperating with your wills, you'll go to another administrator, that's fine - as I've said, you can seek outside opinions - but remember to keep a cool head, because borderline threats are not appreciated. m.o.p 21:49, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- It was not a threat, "borderline" or otherwise. You are conveniently ignoring a growing number of voices who are all saying the same thing - there is an ownership problem here. The deletion issue has not been "cleared up" as far as I'm concerned. Whenever it is mentioned Anupam insists that he did not "unilaterally" delete the RfCs from the page, which is a blatant distortion, since that is exactly what he did. He continues to act as a policeman at the page, and yes he does continue to cite your authority. Did you bother to read the many diffs I posted above in the second two sections? I will quote three random examples from those I provided for you if you want.
- When he first deleted the two RfCs he wrote: "rv - see discussion with reviewing administrator; approval needed to start another RfC while one is already occurring."
- When he deleted a fact tag that JimWae put into the lede: "rv excessive tagging per talk; tag is already extant in header; do not subvert previous consensus but gain consensus for potential additions per administrative notice"
- When he rejected another recent change to the entry: "accepted edits by User:Jkhwiki; rv removal of longstanding referenced content - see discussion on talk page and gain consensus for action per administrative injunction"
- In talk page comments and in edit summaries he consistently does the same thing. He refers to your authority, either directly or indirectly through your "notice" or your "injunction" as he likes to call it. I never said the claimed to have administrative authority, I said that he's using your authority, by way of your comments, such as the closure of the AfD to bully people. Do you deny that he citing your comments, because if you do then I must have fabricated those quotes. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:32, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
If you say "If you don't do A, then I'm going to go and do B", that's a threat. Anyway, that's not the issue - we've already covered all the issues with the RfC reverting, and Anupam won't do it again. Why keep raising hell over it?
We've already covered everything you bring up. And no, I'm not denying anything. I'm just saying this, and it's very simple: I don't think there has been any blatant ownership here. That's my judgment. If you disagree, again, feel free to raise this with another administrator or on ANI. m.o.p 23:12, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Regarding the new RFC, I still think there has not passed yet too much time since the last discussion about splitting the article. As far as I knew, repeating these sorts of debates (like splitting, deleting, renaming) before a larger amount of time has passed (like 6 months) is usually discouraged. And as others have also argued earlier, even if having multiple RFCs is possible, it's not very useful, and the new RFC seems to discourage further discussion about improving the lead introduction. So preventing multiple RFCs (and also a RFC about an issue debated not too long ago) does not look to me like evidence of bad faith intentions. Cody7777777 (talk) 21:37, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Cody, would you mind linking me to the previous RfC on splitting? m.o.p 21:49, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- The previous attempt to split the article can be found here. Cody7777777 (talk) 21:55, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Response
Yes, it does. Thanks, m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Dear User:Master of Puppets, I just noticed that User:Binksternet started another RfC while a current one is occurring. Is this appropriate? I reverted the addition motioning for one until your response is confirmed. If it is acceptable, then I apologize and will revert my edit. I look forward to your response. With regards, AnupamTalk 15:14, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'll form my reply on ANI. m.o.p 17:12, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- When you do please take into account my comment just above, regarding Anupam's edit warring to remove talk page comments (namely these RfCs) posted by others on the talk page. If you still don't think this is WP:OWN then clearly other administrators are needed here.Griswaldo (talk) 17:15, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Dear User:Griswaldo, how is going to a neutral mediator to address the issue owning the article? I acknowledge that the article is in dispute and as a result, I am asking an administrator for advice in this matter, NOT handling things on my own, as you have done by edit warring. Your WP:OWN allegations have not only been dismissed by this administrator, but by several other users, including, User:Lionelt, User:Cody7777777 and User:NYyankees51. Thanks, AnupamTalk 17:27, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- In reply to Griswaldo: reverting the RfCs was a mistake, but we've cleared that up now. As Anupam has stated at ANI, the intent was not to discourage discussion. If you think my judgment is compromised, you're welcome to seek another administrator's input. m.o.p 21:04, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- And as further evidence of WP:OWN, see this. Anupam adds a comment to everything that anyone else says, as if he/she is the owner of the article and everyone else is a subordinate contributor. This particular instance is pretty benign (although it clutters up the talk page with an unnecessary comment that merely says "I agree"), but I do think that Anupam at least needs to learn how to avoid giving the appearance of thinking he/she owns the article, and to desist from chipping in and saying the same thing over and over again, which almost makes meaningful discussion impossible! SNALWIBMA ( talk - contribs ) 17:31, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- While the input is appreciated, as I've said before, making allegations of ownership without hard evidence isn't going to get us anywhere. Anupam is not stopping others from discussing changes or forming consensus, and that's all that matters - refactoring the talk page or commenting on an issue is not against policy, and I'm not going to tell someone to stop editing because it "looks" like they're doing something wrong. As said above, you're welcome to request another administrator's insight if you wish. m.o.p 21:04, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
COIHi
you've helped me out before, with a conflict of interest problem, so having much more experience than me on wikipedia, I thought I would be bold enough to ask again for help.
Similar problem to last, User_talk:Hobbycraft is editing the HOBBYCRAFT article and making changes that aren't citably right. I think the user name suggest and history suggests a conflict of interest case.
Can you please, speak to them addressing this issue.
Thank you very much for your help.
Markcoulter50 (talk) 22:27, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
- I've blocked that user for username violations. Thanks a lot for letting me know! Keep up the great work, m.o.p 23:00, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkbackcausa sui (talk) 18:47, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Hello. You have a new message at causa sui's talk page. causa sui (talk) 20:54, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Problematic editing on militant atheism
- I hope it's not considered defamatory to repeat the final line: "I merely present the diffs above, and let others draw their own conclusions. Is this a duck? Does it quack? You decide.". Unfortunately, the concerned community no longer has that opportunity. What did you decide on their behalf? Does this duck quack, or not? bobrayner (talk) 15:42, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- It's not your wording, it's the very idea of it. Going to what's allegorically a public place and shouting, "Hey, everybody, this man is a criminal!" is one step below blatantly forming a lynch mob. As I've said, I have no problem with your wording or evidence, just your location of choice. Wikipedia is not, unfortunately, a democracy - letting others draw their conclusions and voice their opinions is not how a sockpuppet investigation works.
- So yes, please don't go restoring any of that section. We're not discussing editors, we're discussing the content they produce. Anything else has a sub-board to deal with it (like WP:SPI).
- Hopefully that clears things up! I'll be happy to answer any more questions should you have them. Cheers, m.o.p 15:48, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Hello User:Bobrayner, I noticed the section you created on the militant atheism talk page. If you do feel the way you do about User:Turnsalso and the anonymous IP Addresses, you can take this up with WP:SPI. Thanks, AnupamTalk 15:52, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
Are you kidding my MoP? Above your write: Going to what's allegorically a public place and shouting, "Hey, everybody, this man is a criminal!" is one step below blatantly forming a lynch mob. AND We're not discussing editors, we're discussing the content they produce. Yet you call this edit by Lionelt "good faith," at WQA? MoP, I would not ask you to agree with me or to like me, but can I please ask you not to insult me with these double standards.Griswaldo (talk) 16:18, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
]
- Griswaldo, I mean no offense when I say this, but I'd appreciate it if you stayed out of discussions which didn't involve you. Also, please don't put words in my mouth. Thanks, m.o.p 16:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I have not put words in your mouth. You said that you would assume good faith about Lionel. If you "assume good faith" it means you assume his edits were in "good faith." If you did not intend that meaning I suggest you reconsider what you wrote. Also, if you want me to "stay out of discussion which don't involve me" then I suggest your first order of business should be to do the same thing yourself. You decided to post at WQA, when there was no mention of you or anything you've done in that thread. Once again, I expect people not to practice double standards. So as long as you cannot show me that you will treat me as you ask to be treated yourself, I will not oblige you. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:21, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Please stop bickering. I'm not quite sure what you're trying to accomplish here. I've already explained what I meant when I said assuming good faith, but I'll explain again: I assumed that Lionelt was not hounding or deliberately haranguing you. I did not say, at any point, that his edit content was good faith, and I've told him not to edit like that again. So please stop accusing me of saying things I haven't said.
- Also, I posted in WQA because, as a mediator in this case and as an administrator, it's my duty to weigh in on administrative noticeboards, especially when the case is an ongoing discussion I've been participating in for three months. It is not your duty to weigh in on discussions on my talk page that don't concern you. I hope the distinction is clear here. m.o.p 20:33, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I think you are confused about something. Content is never good faith. "Editing in good faith" and "good faith edits" refers to the intent of the editor always. It has nothing to do with content. My assumption that you also felt the edits were appropriate comes from the fact that you did not say they weren't appropriate and clearly feel that his intentions were good. If you'd like to set the record straight on that issue you still can. I've asked you twice now to discuss the actual edits that are the focal point of the thread. Also, I moved the thread to ANI, per the suggestion of the editor who marked it "resolved."Griswaldo (talk) 20:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- See Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#User:Lionelt_--_following_my_past_edits_to_drum_up_support_against_me. FYI, I copy pasted the entire discussion because both you and Collect were critical of my initial post and I thought it was the right thing to do to preserve that criticism in the record of the conversation. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:43, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- In reply to your first paragraph: I'm going to give up now, as it seems you're misunderstanding most of what I type, but you're the one who stated that the content was not good faith (as you said, not appropriate), and I agreed - I referred to his intent in replying to you, and said that I assumed good faith in his motives, not his replies. I can't really say that in a clearer way, so my apologies if it's hard to understand. Also, as I've already said, I've left a message for Lionelt about his edits, so clearly I do not feel they're appropriate. m.o.p 20:57, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I, too, find these double standards vexing.
- Which diff is defamatory?
- I had hitherto thought that people on the article talkpage might like to be aware of potential problems with votestacking on the article talkpage (and 3rr evasion, of course). Would it be permitted to add a link to that list of diffs when it's in a different place, or would you consider that defamatory too? bobrayner (talk) 16:23, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- As I said, the information is not defamatory, but the way it's presented is - we have specific processes available to pursue should one feel there are sockpuppets about. However, calling someone out with the intent of informing the community is overstepping your authority and damaging to the accused's character. Also, there's no way a community discussion about whether or not one editor is a sockpuppet can end in anything other than a sockpuppet investigation anyway.
- So, in closing, please don't bring issues like this to the talk page. If you're concerned about votestacking, take it to the appropriate venue - if your concerns are validated, we'll take measures against said puppets. Cheers, m.o.p 16:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I am very disappointed that it's no longer permissible to raise problems with article-editing on the article talkpage. Previous concerns about sockpuppetry were simply ignored; the difference this time is that it's backed by lots of diffs.
- I'm fairly confident that the people concerned have sufficient technical nous to make checkuser draw a blank. And, let's be entirely honest, within minutes of me creating an SPI, an admin of the right persuasion will be getting an email suggesting that an SPI needs their attention. And SPI does not see offsite coordination by a facebook group &c. Finally, any null result at SPI will be used at the article in much the same way as previous administrative decisions have been. So, I do not believe that an SPI will improve either the article, or the encyclopædia as a whole. bobrayner (talk) 17:08, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- If you don't think the pre-existing methods set in place for situations like this are sufficient, you can always raise that concern at the village pump or suggest a policy revision - however, SPI is the venue for these requests, and the only venue. The talk page can not substitute. m.o.p 17:10, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
76.228.226.122Thank you for blocking the anonymous user, who is being counterproductive and rude. (although I think the block should have been one week, but I guess ok at least)
Can you also please try to hide the edit summaries of these edits if possible?
This and
this
Thanks and regards, talk 05:04, 26 September 2011 (UTC)]
- I'll extend the block if this behaviour continues after the block period is over.
- As for the edit summaries, those don't warrant hiding - I apologize for their content, but they don't meet the criteria of what I should remove. It's best just to ignore them for now. Cheers, m.o.p 05:13, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
- Okay, good to know, if I did nothing wrong, no permanent block will be enforced. The IP does not volunteer on WP as an admin and so the disproportionately out of line comments and threats of his should be ignored. --talk 05:19, 26 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Sounds good. We only hide extremely offensive revisions; milder ones stay in the edit history. Thanks again for bringing this to our attention! Cheers, m.o.p 05:31, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
Email
Jasper Deng (talk) 05:29, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
- Reading. talk) 06:00, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Bad Girls Club
- I've blocked Junebea for 2 days for disregarding warnings. m.o.p 20:30, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks for helping :) Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 21:06, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkback
- And again.Griswaldo (talk) 04:24, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
- And again ... but maybe the last. You can settle this question once and for all. See the talk page.Griswaldo (talk) 06:09, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'm sure I'm not alone in wanting to hear your replies to the last responses posed to you at that page. IMO, I don't know why you went down the road you did, but as far as I can tell you're blatantly misrepesenting facts about your own actions when people are brining concerns to you. You might think that since you closed the RfC the matter is settled, but it is not. You're actions have not made my life any more pleasant in the last few days vis-a-vis trying to deal with Anupam's disruption and I think you owe us all answers. So please revisit this thread and deal with the open questions. Thanks.Griswaldo (talk) 02:19, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
- I invite you to stop asking the same question again and again. This would be appreciated. Thanks, m.o.p 02:33, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Block question
- No, I just block obviously bad-faith accounts on sight. Advertising/spam accounts fall under that category. m.o.p 00:37, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Thanks
- Thank you. I've unlocked the article for whatever may come. If I'm needed again, feel free to let me know. Thanks for the kind words again, m.o.p 05:12, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
reminder
- We're still waiting to see if the user understands COI policy (per Ed's question). I'll prod the user and see if they'll answer. talk) 19:20, 30 September 2011 (UTC)]
Nextel logo deleted
- Mmm, good point. What's the link to the logo in question? m.o.p 01:33, 2 October 2011 (UTC)
Support of Sage City SymphonyYou deleted this page before I had a chance to go back in and add the stuff that you wanted to see, including the links within Wikipedia to important composers such as Lou Callabro (who started this orchestra and cites it in his Wikipedia page) and Susan Hurley whose work we premiered (SC is also mentioned in her Wikipedia entry). (Let alone links about the works we have performed.) And we have a web site at www.sagecitysymphony.org, have existed for over 35 yrs and are a significant cultural resource in the Bennington area such that we receive grants from local, statewide and national foundations.
I broke my wrist last weekend and am doing one-handed pecking so it'll take me a few days to get that loaded in. We are going out for a bit now, but I would appreciate your undeleting the page so that I don't have to re-invent the starting part when I go back in tomorrow to add links. Or delete it entirely so that I can start fresh - at this point either would work as long as I can start some serious work on it tomorrow. I am the webmaster by the way, so I do have access to content and more links.
Thank you, Celia Murray — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.228.127.119 (talk) 14:22, 1 October 2011 (UTC)
- It looks like fixed everything up. Best of luck, m.o.p 01:35, 2 October 2011 (UTC)]
Reply on Deterence's talk page
MA
After the beating you took you deserve a cold one--on me! Thanks for being fair and balanced – Lionel (talk) 03:55, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
- Hey, thanks! Glad to help out. :) m.o.p 03:56, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
Deletion of Mau5trap Recordings
--neocharles (talk) 07:33, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Existence does not equal notability - the subject has to be notable to get a Wikipedia page. m.o.p 12:05, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
Questoin re: AIV
- Addendum, actually, I read it very clearly in WP:VANDNOT: "Uploading or using material on Wikipedia in violation of Wikipedia's copyright policies is prohibited, but is not vandalism unless the user does so maliciously or fails to heed warnings." So if a person fails to heed warnings it is vandalism. My mistake here was that I only warned once. --Muhandes (talk) 12:29, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Eh, technically it is vandalism, but the user seems to be trying to improve the Wikipedia - that desire to help is misplaced in this case, as they seem to think that using copyrighted content is actually better. Weird. For most cases, yes, you should report copyvio to AIV - as long as they've been warned sufficiently. m.o.p 12:42, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- OK, he now did it again and the time stamp is after your last warning. Is it vandalism now? --Muhandes (talk) 12:32, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Yeah, if they're outright ignoring warnings. I've blocked for three days. m.o.p 12:40, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
Classmusic
- Oh, I know. But if somebody's lied to my face about using another account - and to other editors working on the article - I'm not about to let them go without a repercussion or two. I'd like Almost-instinct and Voceditnore to look over the article and fix up anything shifty. Also, I'd like Classmusic to respond to my warning, instead of blanking it and ignoring like they have to the above-named editors.
- So, in short, I know that COI doesn't bar editing, but it's enough of a concern that, given the user's recent behaviour, I'll stop them from doing anything until we've figured things out. This isn't too rouge-y, is it? I didn't hear that. Perhaps he is unaware of the sockpuppet investigation findings. Anyhow it seems that DeltaQuad has also blocked the Classmusic account. I left a note on his page about using the unblock template, but re-iterated that he needs to read the COI and Autobiography guidelines and stick to them scrupulously, if he gets unblocked. In the Opera and Classical Music WikiProjects, we get a lot of articles for performers, ensembles, etc. created by their agents and PR people, and often themselves. In my experience, the best I can hope for after one of these tussles is that they'll edit their article according to the guidelines in future. I have yet to find a single one who has ever contributed anything else to Wikipedia. Their only interest in the project is as a PR tool. Having said that, at least it results (after much red-pencilling from other editors) in one new article on a notable subject that we didn't have before and in a small way redresses the pop culture systemic bias here. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 13:40, 5 October 2011 (UTC)]
Danish election
- Never mind, it's been pulled by another admin. All the best, Jenks24 (talk) 11:03, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry about that! I was busy all day and didn't get your message until now. Thanks for letting me know, though! Cheers, m.o.p 19:51, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
3RRHey there! :)
Well WP:CRYSTAL has wined down, however, there's currently a
The Bad Girls Club (season 7). I have notified the two users [32], [33]. The evidence can be found here. They are having an edit-conflict on how the "Duration of cast" should be presented. Since there's no rules regarding anything like that, and it was made up about a year ago, I couldn't warned them to stop their e/c with anything except the 3RR rule. Maybe they need an admin to tell them to stop, so that's why I came to you :) Thanks, Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 01:17, 6 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Temporary page protection requested. Calabe1992 (talk) 01:29, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
Hey
- Done! Both your userpage and the transcluded page are protected. Cheers, « ₣M₣ » 04:09, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Restored. m.o.p 05:21, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
]
User talk:Joshua the Independent
- My mistake - my block script auto-filled the edit summary. The block was issued due to the user's newfound will to disrupt Wikipedia intentionally. Their previous contributions are welcome, but this behaviour necessitates administrative action. m.o.p 21:52, 13 September 2011 (UTC)
Say hi to your imaginary girlfriend for me
- Well, I do love getting hate mail. Thanks for the laugh! Cheers, m.o.p 05:17, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
...further to the above lovely note, I weighed in on Calabe's talk page - there appears to be more confusion here than at first glance. bou·le·var·dier (talk) 05:19, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
Sorry to drop by again, but Silentsizzlingsausage (talk · contribs) would appear to be a duck. bou·le·var·dier (talk) 05:31, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
- No, it's not an issue! Thanks for the note, blocked. Cheers, WP:SPI. Thanks again, m.o.p 06:13, 14 September 2011 (UTC)]
I have to admit ...
- See the above section. The link is apparently a very subtle spam link that Calabe is removing, and socks are springing up to revert him. Swarm u / t 10:20, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
Moderation
- Alright, I'll make my way back. Thanks for letting me know! m.o.p 05:18, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
User:12.139.96.228
- To be honest, this case is perplexing. Half of this user's edits are constructive (mostly sourced), the other half aren't sourced - and the user won't reply to anybody. I'm also too busy to go through every edit and confirm whether or not it's good. I forgot about this for a while - I'll think about it tonight and figure something out for tomorrow. Thanks for reminding me! m.o.p 05:18, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
Whoops
- Whoops! Must not have been looking when I ran my block script. Thanks for letting me know, I've reblocked them for a far shorter (technically, an infinitely shorter) time. Cheers, m.o.p 22:58, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
Ashleyleggat404
- You're fully right in that the blanking policy covers indefinite blocks. I've removed the user's talk page rights as a result. Thanks again! m.o.p 00:28, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkback
Moderation
- If you look into this please consider whether Anupam's actions on the talk page and the entry itself are violations of WP:OWN. He's been driving off those he disagrees with by bludgening them to death with argument and heavily policing the entry claiming that there is a consensus written in stone despite many dissenting voices. Others have taken to simply calling him "the article's owner." I have had enough of this behavior personally and left him a message about it on his talk page. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:52, 20 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Dear User:Master of Puppets, the above user has misrepresented the occurrences at the article. I started another Introduction discussion at the article's talk page but User:Griswaldo has chosen to edit war over a second NPOV tag, despite the fact that one already exists in the article. He has done so despite the fact that the Introduction is being discussed in a peaceful manner at the talk page, in violation of your injunction: "We've only got consensus on this proposed versions (and loose consensus at that) - please do not attempt to subvert said consensus by making undiscussed changes." I have posted a message on his talk page about this behaviour. Nevertheless, I also do not wish to argue with the user personally and would prefer if you could go back to moderating the discussion between the two parties at the talk page. Thanks for taking the time to read this message. With regards, AnupamTalk 20:58, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- His "injunction?" Adding a neutrality tag to a specific sentence which an editor disputes the neutrality of is hardly "subverting the consensus by making undiscussed changes." Please stop wikilawyering to get your way. There is a growing consensus against your position regarding this article in general as well, despite your aggressive policing of the entry and the talk page. See ]
- I just thought that I would mention that User:Griswaldo, after seeing this message, just now decided to comment in the discussion rather than edit war against consensus further. Thanks for taking the time to read this message. With regards, AnupamTalk 21:51, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- "Edit war against consensus further?" My comment there has nothing to do with your message here. I've made three total edits to this entry ever. One was a copy edit in June, another was reverting an IP vandal, and the third was the revert of your Ownership edit. Please do not insinuate that I'm a edit warrior on this page. It is disingenuous.Griswaldo (talk) 22:08, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Thank you all for approaching me with your concerns.
- Obviously, I do not support Anupam - this is because I'm remaining a neutral third party, and, therefore, can't take sides. However, Griswaldo: please keep in mind that I did ask for all discussion to take place on the talk page. Why not just add your complaints to the talk page? It would have been much easier to discuss.
- I do agree that adding a NPOV tag, while slightly redundant, isn't horrible, but your intent seems to have been to stir discussion on that particular section, discussion that would be much more appropriate on the talk page.
- As for your and Snalwibma's concerns of Anupam trying to 'own' the article, I'm curious as to what you two mean; what 'delusions'?
- Also, Griswaldo, I don't think Anupam meant to insinuate you are an edit warrior (though this is just my take) - rather, they wanted to add the note that you've weighed in on discussion. m.o.p 22:10, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- your intent seems to have been to stir discussion on that particular section - No that's incorrect. I didn't add this tag, I simply reverted Anupam's attempt to own the page when he removed it. I agreed with JimWae's addition of the tag and found Anupam's removal to be unwarranted and a display of ownership.Griswaldo (talk) 22:16, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Note that, for all intents and purposes, reverting somebody is adding whatever is included in your edit, regardless of who put it there first. You revert a removal, you're agreeing with the edition you're reverting to - simple.
- And, if you agreed with JimWae, then we go back to what I was saying earlier - say so on the talk page. Two of you agree? Great! That's closer to consensus. But it means nothing if you express your support by reverting removals.
- Again, as I've asked multiple times, please stop saying that Anupam is owning anything without giving me evidence of it first. m.o.p 22:22, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Dear User:Master of Puppets, thank you for your reply to all of us. The reason User:Snalwibma stated that I was attempting to "own" the article was because I reverted an undiscussed removal from the article, which not only myself, but two other users objected to. In fact, two anonymous IP Addresses also reverted User:Snalwibma. I was open to compromise on the issue and stated that I would accept User:Turnsalso's compromise on the issue. I kindly request you to look at that discussion yourself and get an honest reading of it. Also, the only reason I removed the second NPOV tag was because there was already one present, which I did not remove. I only reverted the addition of a second NPOV tag once and even explained myself on the talk page. When I went to the talk page, I found rude accusations and an anti-collaborative spirit, despite the fact that I have been nothing but polite. I hope this helps. With regards, AnupamTalk 22:25, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry - I know I should not rise to the bait, but I have to object to the comment "The reason User:Snalwibma stated that I was attempting to 'own' the article was because I reverted an undiscussed removal ..." How dare Anupam presume to know what is in my mind! The reason I describe Anupam's attitude to the article as one of ownership is because that is how s/he behaves - "policing" every edit, pronouncing on whether s/he "accepts" or "rejects" it, peremptorily reverting anything s/he does not like, without discussion, presuming to know others' motives, and judging them as fit/unfit to contribute to the article. This has been going on for weeks, if not months. It is impossible to discuss the content of the article, let alone improve the text, because everything is filtered through the approval/disapproval of the article's self-appointed guardian, Anupam. tendentious or disruptive when they bring up certain issues, even when they are clearly in the majority. That is not collaborative. I stopped editing the article heavily because of those issues. I don't have any delusions that my opinion is worth more than anyone else's here, but I would think that the large number of established, experienced editors who are all saying there's a problem, would indicate something. — Jess· Δ♥ 19:45, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
Please reconsider your full protection of Militant atheist
- In case you didn't notice, I asked that people think twice about pointing fingers at each other. If you'd like to start a sockpuppetry investigation, let me know, and we can take that avenue - however, don't accuse other editors of ownership without substance. If you think Anupam is trying to own things, give me something. Diffs, edits, anything. I'll check it out for you, but right now, baseless accusations are not what I'm looking for.
- Also, notice that I protected the article with your edit being the last one. How is that validating the very person you've been reverting?
- The protection will stay until consensus is reached. m.o.p 22:19, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Because protection is what he wants quite clearly. He's stalling conversation and shouting down people on the talk page, where, if you have a look, you'll see he's clearly in the minority. Because of your "injunction" as he calls it, he also claims that no matter how many people agree with a certain change it is illegitimate. I'll be happy to gather some diffs, but my first message to you above was to please look into the situation carefully before acting on it. Did you do that and come to the conclusion that I'm wrong or did you not head that request? Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:29, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Yes, I did heed your request. I don't see any ownership behaviour from Anupam, though, being involved in multiple disputes, I didn't have the time to read every last word on the page, so you're free to provide evidence. However, from what I can see, Anupam's last proposal was supported by the majority - not to count (and I don't mean to imply that I decide where consensus lies by looking at pure numbers), but from looking at pure supports versus opposes, eight people (nine including Anupam) support while four oppose. How does that make Anupam's views a minority? m.o.p 22:37, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- It depends on what view you are talking about. The current RFC on the introduction is something that most people don't even want to engage because most people think this very entry should be split up and integrated into other entries. I reluctantly engaged the RfC just now myself. The last time the more serious question about the entry was asked, several of the new commentators were not around, and there was "no consensus" found because the opposing side was chalk full of SPAs and editors with a view that is outright hostile to atheism (which is a legitimate view to hold, but it is a minority view). Let me find you some diffs.Griswaldo (talk) 22:43, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- User:Griswaldo, that is exactly the issue: you do not want to collaborate with other users on the talk page, which is why you were reluctant to participate in the current RfC. Moreover, there were several SPA's on the side of the opposition as well, including WP:NPOV. In addition, the split was again recently discussed and the specific case to do so was refuted by several editors. As such, there was no consensus for it. I hope this helps. With regards, AnupamTalk 22:52, 20 September 2011 (UTC)]
- No. You are trying to write an article that violates WP:SYNTH because it conflates New Atheism with oppressive communist regimes and their histories of violence. That's hardly NPOV. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:59, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
Hi m.o.p., as someone who occasionally looks at that page (and then washes my hands), I just want to compliment you as having done the right thing in full protecting. By way of unsolicited advice to the involved editors, the best thing they could do is to allow The Wrong Version to sit there a good long time, and devote their energy to other things. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:54, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
]
Yes, please reconsider your full protection of
WP:RS—deserve protection against misinformed reverts. Thanks Geremia (talk) 16:12, 22 September 2011 (UTC)]
Diffs of
- I'm not really sure where the ownership is here; nowhere in our policies is it stated that a user can't promote their RFC on the subject talk page. If it's ongoing and they'd like to move it to the forefront, what's wrong with that? More so, some of your summaries seem inaccurate - in that last diff, you state that Anupam is removing images, yet I only see Anupam adding an image (the peace dove that's at the top of the page). Also, you use repeating examples. m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Well clearly the last diff was wrong. Thanks for the vote of confidence. There are no repeat examples nor inaccurate summaries, just a mistaken copy paste of the second to last diff to the last position as well. I have fixed it. Cheers.
- Using "consensus claims from one RfC to reject changes made to article content
- Same as above. Using the "consensus" bludgeon to get his way. Please note that clearly we ought to edit by consensus, but this consensus is highly disputed, and IMO not there in the first place. The real problem is the way in which Anupam decides to use it like a trump card to remove changes he doesn't like. Ask yourself if all changes post "consensus" have been removed or just the ones Anupam decided he wanted removed.
Master of Puppets do you need more diffs or is this enough?Griswaldo (talk) 23:31, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Well I need more diffs because your "evidence" so far looks like a desperate attempt to incriminate an editor who has been very successful in persuading his colleagues to adopt his proposals. Anupam has presented his proposals, argued the merits and persuaded many editors. Anything you want to tell us about why you're having difficulty doing likewise? – Lionel (talk) 06:02, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- I don't see this is as conclusive evidence, either. And, it should be said - if people are editing against established consensus, then people are free to re-evaluate consensus, but edit-warring against it doesn't make much sense. m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- If not ownership then what is this - [28], [29], [30]? He removes two RfCs started by another editor, and revolving around the question that many of us actually find to be the fundamental question to answer regarding the entry. Then he edit wars to keep these RfCs off the page, claiming again to have some sort of authority stemming from your prior actions. If you aren't willing to do something here I'm going to another administrator and I'm going to ask for your initial "consensus," your strong arm administrating, and your lack of action here to be reviewed as well. Thanks.Griswaldo (talk) 17:08, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Anupam has already apologized for reverting those RfC additions, and we've moved past it. He also didn't claim to have administrative authority, but was waiting for my approval. We've cleared this up, it's not an issue. So no, I'm not going to take any action (as I've said here and on ANI). Now, if you'd like to threaten me and tell me that, since I'm not cooperating with your wills, you'll go to another administrator, that's fine - as I've said, you can seek outside opinions - but remember to keep a cool head, because borderline threats are not appreciated. m.o.p 21:49, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- It was not a threat, "borderline" or otherwise. You are conveniently ignoring a growing number of voices who are all saying the same thing - there is an ownership problem here. The deletion issue has not been "cleared up" as far as I'm concerned. Whenever it is mentioned Anupam insists that he did not "unilaterally" delete the RfCs from the page, which is a blatant distortion, since that is exactly what he did. He continues to act as a policeman at the page, and yes he does continue to cite your authority. Did you bother to read the many diffs I posted above in the second two sections? I will quote three random examples from those I provided for you if you want.
- When he first deleted the two RfCs he wrote: "rv - see discussion with reviewing administrator; approval needed to start another RfC while one is already occurring."
- When he deleted a fact tag that JimWae put into the lede: "rv excessive tagging per talk; tag is already extant in header; do not subvert previous consensus but gain consensus for potential additions per administrative notice"
- When he rejected another recent change to the entry: "accepted edits by User:Jkhwiki; rv removal of longstanding referenced content - see discussion on talk page and gain consensus for action per administrative injunction"
- In talk page comments and in edit summaries he consistently does the same thing. He refers to your authority, either directly or indirectly through your "notice" or your "injunction" as he likes to call it. I never said the claimed to have administrative authority, I said that he's using your authority, by way of your comments, such as the closure of the AfD to bully people. Do you deny that he citing your comments, because if you do then I must have fabricated those quotes. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:32, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
If you say "If you don't do A, then I'm going to go and do B", that's a threat. Anyway, that's not the issue - we've already covered all the issues with the RfC reverting, and Anupam won't do it again. Why keep raising hell over it?
We've already covered everything you bring up. And no, I'm not denying anything. I'm just saying this, and it's very simple: I don't think there has been any blatant ownership here. That's my judgment. If you disagree, again, feel free to raise this with another administrator or on ANI. m.o.p 23:12, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Regarding the new RFC, I still think there has not passed yet too much time since the last discussion about splitting the article. As far as I knew, repeating these sorts of debates (like splitting, deleting, renaming) before a larger amount of time has passed (like 6 months) is usually discouraged. And as others have also argued earlier, even if having multiple RFCs is possible, it's not very useful, and the new RFC seems to discourage further discussion about improving the lead introduction. So preventing multiple RFCs (and also a RFC about an issue debated not too long ago) does not look to me like evidence of bad faith intentions. Cody7777777 (talk) 21:37, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Cody, would you mind linking me to the previous RfC on splitting? m.o.p 21:49, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- The previous attempt to split the article can be found here. Cody7777777 (talk) 21:55, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Response
Yes, it does. Thanks, m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Dear User:Master of Puppets, I just noticed that User:Binksternet started another RfC while a current one is occurring. Is this appropriate? I reverted the addition motioning for one until your response is confirmed. If it is acceptable, then I apologize and will revert my edit. I look forward to your response. With regards, AnupamTalk 15:14, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'll form my reply on ANI. m.o.p 17:12, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- When you do please take into account my comment just above, regarding Anupam's edit warring to remove talk page comments (namely these RfCs) posted by others on the talk page. If you still don't think this is WP:OWN then clearly other administrators are needed here.Griswaldo (talk) 17:15, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Dear User:Griswaldo, how is going to a neutral mediator to address the issue owning the article? I acknowledge that the article is in dispute and as a result, I am asking an administrator for advice in this matter, NOT handling things on my own, as you have done by edit warring. Your WP:OWN allegations have not only been dismissed by this administrator, but by several other users, including, User:Lionelt, User:Cody7777777 and User:NYyankees51. Thanks, AnupamTalk 17:27, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- In reply to Griswaldo: reverting the RfCs was a mistake, but we've cleared that up now. As Anupam has stated at ANI, the intent was not to discourage discussion. If you think my judgment is compromised, you're welcome to seek another administrator's input. m.o.p 21:04, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- And as further evidence of WP:OWN, see this. Anupam adds a comment to everything that anyone else says, as if he/she is the owner of the article and everyone else is a subordinate contributor. This particular instance is pretty benign (although it clutters up the talk page with an unnecessary comment that merely says "I agree"), but I do think that Anupam at least needs to learn how to avoid giving the appearance of thinking he/she owns the article, and to desist from chipping in and saying the same thing over and over again, which almost makes meaningful discussion impossible! SNALWIBMA ( talk - contribs ) 17:31, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- While the input is appreciated, as I've said before, making allegations of ownership without hard evidence isn't going to get us anywhere. Anupam is not stopping others from discussing changes or forming consensus, and that's all that matters - refactoring the talk page or commenting on an issue is not against policy, and I'm not going to tell someone to stop editing because it "looks" like they're doing something wrong. As said above, you're welcome to request another administrator's insight if you wish. m.o.p 21:04, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
COIHi
you've helped me out before, with a conflict of interest problem, so having much more experience than me on wikipedia, I thought I would be bold enough to ask again for help.
Similar problem to last, User_talk:Hobbycraft is editing the HOBBYCRAFT article and making changes that aren't citably right. I think the user name suggest and history suggests a conflict of interest case.
Can you please, speak to them addressing this issue.
Thank you very much for your help.
Markcoulter50 (talk) 22:27, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
- I've blocked that user for username violations. Thanks a lot for letting me know! Keep up the great work, m.o.p 23:00, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkbackcausa sui (talk) 18:47, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Hello. You have a new message at causa sui's talk page. causa sui (talk) 20:54, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Problematic editing on militant atheism
- I hope it's not considered defamatory to repeat the final line: "I merely present the diffs above, and let others draw their own conclusions. Is this a duck? Does it quack? You decide.". Unfortunately, the concerned community no longer has that opportunity. What did you decide on their behalf? Does this duck quack, or not? bobrayner (talk) 15:42, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- It's not your wording, it's the very idea of it. Going to what's allegorically a public place and shouting, "Hey, everybody, this man is a criminal!" is one step below blatantly forming a lynch mob. As I've said, I have no problem with your wording or evidence, just your location of choice. Wikipedia is not, unfortunately, a democracy - letting others draw their conclusions and voice their opinions is not how a sockpuppet investigation works.
- So yes, please don't go restoring any of that section. We're not discussing editors, we're discussing the content they produce. Anything else has a sub-board to deal with it (like WP:SPI).
- Hopefully that clears things up! I'll be happy to answer any more questions should you have them. Cheers, m.o.p 15:48, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Hello User:Bobrayner, I noticed the section you created on the militant atheism talk page. If you do feel the way you do about User:Turnsalso and the anonymous IP Addresses, you can take this up with WP:SPI. Thanks, AnupamTalk 15:52, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
Are you kidding my MoP? Above your write: Going to what's allegorically a public place and shouting, "Hey, everybody, this man is a criminal!" is one step below blatantly forming a lynch mob. AND We're not discussing editors, we're discussing the content they produce. Yet you call this edit by Lionelt "good faith," at WQA? MoP, I would not ask you to agree with me or to like me, but can I please ask you not to insult me with these double standards.Griswaldo (talk) 16:18, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
]
- Griswaldo, I mean no offense when I say this, but I'd appreciate it if you stayed out of discussions which didn't involve you. Also, please don't put words in my mouth. Thanks, m.o.p 16:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I have not put words in your mouth. You said that you would assume good faith about Lionel. If you "assume good faith" it means you assume his edits were in "good faith." If you did not intend that meaning I suggest you reconsider what you wrote. Also, if you want me to "stay out of discussion which don't involve me" then I suggest your first order of business should be to do the same thing yourself. You decided to post at WQA, when there was no mention of you or anything you've done in that thread. Once again, I expect people not to practice double standards. So as long as you cannot show me that you will treat me as you ask to be treated yourself, I will not oblige you. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:21, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Please stop bickering. I'm not quite sure what you're trying to accomplish here. I've already explained what I meant when I said assuming good faith, but I'll explain again: I assumed that Lionelt was not hounding or deliberately haranguing you. I did not say, at any point, that his edit content was good faith, and I've told him not to edit like that again. So please stop accusing me of saying things I haven't said.
- Also, I posted in WQA because, as a mediator in this case and as an administrator, it's my duty to weigh in on administrative noticeboards, especially when the case is an ongoing discussion I've been participating in for three months. It is not your duty to weigh in on discussions on my talk page that don't concern you. I hope the distinction is clear here. m.o.p 20:33, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I think you are confused about something. Content is never good faith. "Editing in good faith" and "good faith edits" refers to the intent of the editor always. It has nothing to do with content. My assumption that you also felt the edits were appropriate comes from the fact that you did not say they weren't appropriate and clearly feel that his intentions were good. If you'd like to set the record straight on that issue you still can. I've asked you twice now to discuss the actual edits that are the focal point of the thread. Also, I moved the thread to ANI, per the suggestion of the editor who marked it "resolved."Griswaldo (talk) 20:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- See Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#User:Lionelt_--_following_my_past_edits_to_drum_up_support_against_me. FYI, I copy pasted the entire discussion because both you and Collect were critical of my initial post and I thought it was the right thing to do to preserve that criticism in the record of the conversation. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:43, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- In reply to your first paragraph: I'm going to give up now, as it seems you're misunderstanding most of what I type, but you're the one who stated that the content was not good faith (as you said, not appropriate), and I agreed - I referred to his intent in replying to you, and said that I assumed good faith in his motives, not his replies. I can't really say that in a clearer way, so my apologies if it's hard to understand. Also, as I've already said, I've left a message for Lionelt about his edits, so clearly I do not feel they're appropriate. m.o.p 20:57, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I, too, find these double standards vexing.
- Which diff is defamatory?
- I had hitherto thought that people on the article talkpage might like to be aware of potential problems with votestacking on the article talkpage (and 3rr evasion, of course). Would it be permitted to add a link to that list of diffs when it's in a different place, or would you consider that defamatory too? bobrayner (talk) 16:23, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- As I said, the information is not defamatory, but the way it's presented is - we have specific processes available to pursue should one feel there are sockpuppets about. However, calling someone out with the intent of informing the community is overstepping your authority and damaging to the accused's character. Also, there's no way a community discussion about whether or not one editor is a sockpuppet can end in anything other than a sockpuppet investigation anyway.
- So, in closing, please don't bring issues like this to the talk page. If you're concerned about votestacking, take it to the appropriate venue - if your concerns are validated, we'll take measures against said puppets. Cheers, m.o.p 16:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I am very disappointed that it's no longer permissible to raise problems with article-editing on the article talkpage. Previous concerns about sockpuppetry were simply ignored; the difference this time is that it's backed by lots of diffs.
- I'm fairly confident that the people concerned have sufficient technical nous to make checkuser draw a blank. And, let's be entirely honest, within minutes of me creating an SPI, an admin of the right persuasion will be getting an email suggesting that an SPI needs their attention. And SPI does not see offsite coordination by a facebook group &c. Finally, any null result at SPI will be used at the article in much the same way as previous administrative decisions have been. So, I do not believe that an SPI will improve either the article, or the encyclopædia as a whole. bobrayner (talk) 17:08, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- If you don't think the pre-existing methods set in place for situations like this are sufficient, you can always raise that concern at the village pump or suggest a policy revision - however, SPI is the venue for these requests, and the only venue. The talk page can not substitute. m.o.p 17:10, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
76.228.226.122Thank you for blocking the anonymous user, who is being counterproductive and rude. (although I think the block should have been one week, but I guess ok at least)
Can you also please try to hide the edit summaries of these edits if possible?
This and
this
Thanks and regards, talk 05:04, 26 September 2011 (UTC)]
- I'll extend the block if this behaviour continues after the block period is over.
- As for the edit summaries, those don't warrant hiding - I apologize for their content, but they don't meet the criteria of what I should remove. It's best just to ignore them for now. Cheers, m.o.p 05:13, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
- Okay, good to know, if I did nothing wrong, no permanent block will be enforced. The IP does not volunteer on WP as an admin and so the disproportionately out of line comments and threats of his should be ignored. --talk 05:19, 26 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Sounds good. We only hide extremely offensive revisions; milder ones stay in the edit history. Thanks again for bringing this to our attention! Cheers, m.o.p 05:31, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
Email
Jasper Deng (talk) 05:29, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
- Reading. talk) 06:00, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Bad Girls Club
- I've blocked Junebea for 2 days for disregarding warnings. m.o.p 20:30, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks for helping :) Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 21:06, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkback
- And again.Griswaldo (talk) 04:24, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
- And again ... but maybe the last. You can settle this question once and for all. See the talk page.Griswaldo (talk) 06:09, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'm sure I'm not alone in wanting to hear your replies to the last responses posed to you at that page. IMO, I don't know why you went down the road you did, but as far as I can tell you're blatantly misrepesenting facts about your own actions when people are brining concerns to you. You might think that since you closed the RfC the matter is settled, but it is not. You're actions have not made my life any more pleasant in the last few days vis-a-vis trying to deal with Anupam's disruption and I think you owe us all answers. So please revisit this thread and deal with the open questions. Thanks.Griswaldo (talk) 02:19, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
- I invite you to stop asking the same question again and again. This would be appreciated. Thanks, m.o.p 02:33, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Block question
- No, I just block obviously bad-faith accounts on sight. Advertising/spam accounts fall under that category. m.o.p 00:37, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Thanks
- Thank you. I've unlocked the article for whatever may come. If I'm needed again, feel free to let me know. Thanks for the kind words again, m.o.p 05:12, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
reminder
- We're still waiting to see if the user understands COI policy (per Ed's question). I'll prod the user and see if they'll answer. talk) 19:20, 30 September 2011 (UTC)]
Nextel logo deleted
- Mmm, good point. What's the link to the logo in question? m.o.p 01:33, 2 October 2011 (UTC)
Support of Sage City SymphonyYou deleted this page before I had a chance to go back in and add the stuff that you wanted to see, including the links within Wikipedia to important composers such as Lou Callabro (who started this orchestra and cites it in his Wikipedia page) and Susan Hurley whose work we premiered (SC is also mentioned in her Wikipedia entry). (Let alone links about the works we have performed.) And we have a web site at www.sagecitysymphony.org, have existed for over 35 yrs and are a significant cultural resource in the Bennington area such that we receive grants from local, statewide and national foundations.
I broke my wrist last weekend and am doing one-handed pecking so it'll take me a few days to get that loaded in. We are going out for a bit now, but I would appreciate your undeleting the page so that I don't have to re-invent the starting part when I go back in tomorrow to add links. Or delete it entirely so that I can start fresh - at this point either would work as long as I can start some serious work on it tomorrow. I am the webmaster by the way, so I do have access to content and more links.
Thank you, Celia Murray — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.228.127.119 (talk) 14:22, 1 October 2011 (UTC)
- It looks like fixed everything up. Best of luck, m.o.p 01:35, 2 October 2011 (UTC)]
Reply on Deterence's talk page
MA
After the beating you took you deserve a cold one--on me! Thanks for being fair and balanced – Lionel (talk) 03:55, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
- Hey, thanks! Glad to help out. :) m.o.p 03:56, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
Deletion of Mau5trap Recordings
--neocharles (talk) 07:33, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Existence does not equal notability - the subject has to be notable to get a Wikipedia page. m.o.p 12:05, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
Questoin re: AIV
- Addendum, actually, I read it very clearly in WP:VANDNOT: "Uploading or using material on Wikipedia in violation of Wikipedia's copyright policies is prohibited, but is not vandalism unless the user does so maliciously or fails to heed warnings." So if a person fails to heed warnings it is vandalism. My mistake here was that I only warned once. --Muhandes (talk) 12:29, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Eh, technically it is vandalism, but the user seems to be trying to improve the Wikipedia - that desire to help is misplaced in this case, as they seem to think that using copyrighted content is actually better. Weird. For most cases, yes, you should report copyvio to AIV - as long as they've been warned sufficiently. m.o.p 12:42, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- OK, he now did it again and the time stamp is after your last warning. Is it vandalism now? --Muhandes (talk) 12:32, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Yeah, if they're outright ignoring warnings. I've blocked for three days. m.o.p 12:40, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
Classmusic
- Oh, I know. But if somebody's lied to my face about using another account - and to other editors working on the article - I'm not about to let them go without a repercussion or two. I'd like Almost-instinct and Voceditnore to look over the article and fix up anything shifty. Also, I'd like Classmusic to respond to my warning, instead of blanking it and ignoring like they have to the above-named editors.
- So, in short, I know that COI doesn't bar editing, but it's enough of a concern that, given the user's recent behaviour, I'll stop them from doing anything until we've figured things out. This isn't too rouge-y, is it? I didn't hear that. Perhaps he is unaware of the sockpuppet investigation findings. Anyhow it seems that DeltaQuad has also blocked the Classmusic account. I left a note on his page about using the unblock template, but re-iterated that he needs to read the COI and Autobiography guidelines and stick to them scrupulously, if he gets unblocked. In the Opera and Classical Music WikiProjects, we get a lot of articles for performers, ensembles, etc. created by their agents and PR people, and often themselves. In my experience, the best I can hope for after one of these tussles is that they'll edit their article according to the guidelines in future. I have yet to find a single one who has ever contributed anything else to Wikipedia. Their only interest in the project is as a PR tool. Having said that, at least it results (after much red-pencilling from other editors) in one new article on a notable subject that we didn't have before and in a small way redresses the pop culture systemic bias here. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 13:40, 5 October 2011 (UTC)]
Danish election
- Never mind, it's been pulled by another admin. All the best, Jenks24 (talk) 11:03, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry about that! I was busy all day and didn't get your message until now. Thanks for letting me know, though! Cheers, m.o.p 19:51, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
3RRHey there! :)
Well WP:CRYSTAL has wined down, however, there's currently a
The Bad Girls Club (season 7). I have notified the two users [32], [33]. The evidence can be found here. They are having an edit-conflict on how the "Duration of cast" should be presented. Since there's no rules regarding anything like that, and it was made up about a year ago, I couldn't warned them to stop their e/c with anything except the 3RR rule. Maybe they need an admin to tell them to stop, so that's why I came to you :) Thanks, Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 01:17, 6 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Temporary page protection requested. Calabe1992 (talk) 01:29, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
- Restored. m.o.p 05:21, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
User talk:Joshua the Independent
- My mistake - my block script auto-filled the edit summary. The block was issued due to the user's newfound will to disrupt Wikipedia intentionally. Their previous contributions are welcome, but this behaviour necessitates administrative action. m.o.p 21:52, 13 September 2011 (UTC)
Say hi to your imaginary girlfriend for me
- Well, I do love getting hate mail. Thanks for the laugh! Cheers, m.o.p 05:17, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
...further to the above lovely note, I weighed in on Calabe's talk page - there appears to be more confusion here than at first glance. bou·le·var·dier (talk) 05:19, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
Sorry to drop by again, but Silentsizzlingsausage (talk · contribs) would appear to be a duck. bou·le·var·dier (talk) 05:31, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
- No, it's not an issue! Thanks for the note, blocked. Cheers, WP:SPI. Thanks again, m.o.p 06:13, 14 September 2011 (UTC)]
I have to admit ...
- See the above section. The link is apparently a very subtle spam link that Calabe is removing, and socks are springing up to revert him. Swarm u / t 10:20, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
Moderation
- Alright, I'll make my way back. Thanks for letting me know! m.o.p 05:18, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
User:12.139.96.228
- To be honest, this case is perplexing. Half of this user's edits are constructive (mostly sourced), the other half aren't sourced - and the user won't reply to anybody. I'm also too busy to go through every edit and confirm whether or not it's good. I forgot about this for a while - I'll think about it tonight and figure something out for tomorrow. Thanks for reminding me! m.o.p 05:18, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
Whoops
- Whoops! Must not have been looking when I ran my block script. Thanks for letting me know, I've reblocked them for a far shorter (technically, an infinitely shorter) time. Cheers, m.o.p 22:58, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
Ashleyleggat404
- You're fully right in that the blanking policy covers indefinite blocks. I've removed the user's talk page rights as a result. Thanks again! m.o.p 00:28, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkback
Moderation
- If you look into this please consider whether Anupam's actions on the talk page and the entry itself are violations of WP:OWN. He's been driving off those he disagrees with by bludgening them to death with argument and heavily policing the entry claiming that there is a consensus written in stone despite many dissenting voices. Others have taken to simply calling him "the article's owner." I have had enough of this behavior personally and left him a message about it on his talk page. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:52, 20 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Dear User:Master of Puppets, the above user has misrepresented the occurrences at the article. I started another Introduction discussion at the article's talk page but User:Griswaldo has chosen to edit war over a second NPOV tag, despite the fact that one already exists in the article. He has done so despite the fact that the Introduction is being discussed in a peaceful manner at the talk page, in violation of your injunction: "We've only got consensus on this proposed versions (and loose consensus at that) - please do not attempt to subvert said consensus by making undiscussed changes." I have posted a message on his talk page about this behaviour. Nevertheless, I also do not wish to argue with the user personally and would prefer if you could go back to moderating the discussion between the two parties at the talk page. Thanks for taking the time to read this message. With regards, AnupamTalk 20:58, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- His "injunction?" Adding a neutrality tag to a specific sentence which an editor disputes the neutrality of is hardly "subverting the consensus by making undiscussed changes." Please stop wikilawyering to get your way. There is a growing consensus against your position regarding this article in general as well, despite your aggressive policing of the entry and the talk page. See ]
- I just thought that I would mention that User:Griswaldo, after seeing this message, just now decided to comment in the discussion rather than edit war against consensus further. Thanks for taking the time to read this message. With regards, AnupamTalk 21:51, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- "Edit war against consensus further?" My comment there has nothing to do with your message here. I've made three total edits to this entry ever. One was a copy edit in June, another was reverting an IP vandal, and the third was the revert of your Ownership edit. Please do not insinuate that I'm a edit warrior on this page. It is disingenuous.Griswaldo (talk) 22:08, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Thank you all for approaching me with your concerns.
- Obviously, I do not support Anupam - this is because I'm remaining a neutral third party, and, therefore, can't take sides. However, Griswaldo: please keep in mind that I did ask for all discussion to take place on the talk page. Why not just add your complaints to the talk page? It would have been much easier to discuss.
- I do agree that adding a NPOV tag, while slightly redundant, isn't horrible, but your intent seems to have been to stir discussion on that particular section, discussion that would be much more appropriate on the talk page.
- As for your and Snalwibma's concerns of Anupam trying to 'own' the article, I'm curious as to what you two mean; what 'delusions'?
- Also, Griswaldo, I don't think Anupam meant to insinuate you are an edit warrior (though this is just my take) - rather, they wanted to add the note that you've weighed in on discussion. m.o.p 22:10, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- your intent seems to have been to stir discussion on that particular section - No that's incorrect. I didn't add this tag, I simply reverted Anupam's attempt to own the page when he removed it. I agreed with JimWae's addition of the tag and found Anupam's removal to be unwarranted and a display of ownership.Griswaldo (talk) 22:16, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Note that, for all intents and purposes, reverting somebody is adding whatever is included in your edit, regardless of who put it there first. You revert a removal, you're agreeing with the edition you're reverting to - simple.
- And, if you agreed with JimWae, then we go back to what I was saying earlier - say so on the talk page. Two of you agree? Great! That's closer to consensus. But it means nothing if you express your support by reverting removals.
- Again, as I've asked multiple times, please stop saying that Anupam is owning anything without giving me evidence of it first. m.o.p 22:22, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Dear User:Master of Puppets, thank you for your reply to all of us. The reason User:Snalwibma stated that I was attempting to "own" the article was because I reverted an undiscussed removal from the article, which not only myself, but two other users objected to. In fact, two anonymous IP Addresses also reverted User:Snalwibma. I was open to compromise on the issue and stated that I would accept User:Turnsalso's compromise on the issue. I kindly request you to look at that discussion yourself and get an honest reading of it. Also, the only reason I removed the second NPOV tag was because there was already one present, which I did not remove. I only reverted the addition of a second NPOV tag once and even explained myself on the talk page. When I went to the talk page, I found rude accusations and an anti-collaborative spirit, despite the fact that I have been nothing but polite. I hope this helps. With regards, AnupamTalk 22:25, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry - I know I should not rise to the bait, but I have to object to the comment "The reason User:Snalwibma stated that I was attempting to 'own' the article was because I reverted an undiscussed removal ..." How dare Anupam presume to know what is in my mind! The reason I describe Anupam's attitude to the article as one of ownership is because that is how s/he behaves - "policing" every edit, pronouncing on whether s/he "accepts" or "rejects" it, peremptorily reverting anything s/he does not like, without discussion, presuming to know others' motives, and judging them as fit/unfit to contribute to the article. This has been going on for weeks, if not months. It is impossible to discuss the content of the article, let alone improve the text, because everything is filtered through the approval/disapproval of the article's self-appointed guardian, Anupam. tendentious or disruptive when they bring up certain issues, even when they are clearly in the majority. That is not collaborative. I stopped editing the article heavily because of those issues. I don't have any delusions that my opinion is worth more than anyone else's here, but I would think that the large number of established, experienced editors who are all saying there's a problem, would indicate something. — Jess· Δ♥ 19:45, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
Please reconsider your full protection of Militant atheist
- In case you didn't notice, I asked that people think twice about pointing fingers at each other. If you'd like to start a sockpuppetry investigation, let me know, and we can take that avenue - however, don't accuse other editors of ownership without substance. If you think Anupam is trying to own things, give me something. Diffs, edits, anything. I'll check it out for you, but right now, baseless accusations are not what I'm looking for.
- Also, notice that I protected the article with your edit being the last one. How is that validating the very person you've been reverting?
- The protection will stay until consensus is reached. m.o.p 22:19, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Because protection is what he wants quite clearly. He's stalling conversation and shouting down people on the talk page, where, if you have a look, you'll see he's clearly in the minority. Because of your "injunction" as he calls it, he also claims that no matter how many people agree with a certain change it is illegitimate. I'll be happy to gather some diffs, but my first message to you above was to please look into the situation carefully before acting on it. Did you do that and come to the conclusion that I'm wrong or did you not head that request? Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:29, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Yes, I did heed your request. I don't see any ownership behaviour from Anupam, though, being involved in multiple disputes, I didn't have the time to read every last word on the page, so you're free to provide evidence. However, from what I can see, Anupam's last proposal was supported by the majority - not to count (and I don't mean to imply that I decide where consensus lies by looking at pure numbers), but from looking at pure supports versus opposes, eight people (nine including Anupam) support while four oppose. How does that make Anupam's views a minority? m.o.p 22:37, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- It depends on what view you are talking about. The current RFC on the introduction is something that most people don't even want to engage because most people think this very entry should be split up and integrated into other entries. I reluctantly engaged the RfC just now myself. The last time the more serious question about the entry was asked, several of the new commentators were not around, and there was "no consensus" found because the opposing side was chalk full of SPAs and editors with a view that is outright hostile to atheism (which is a legitimate view to hold, but it is a minority view). Let me find you some diffs.Griswaldo (talk) 22:43, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- User:Griswaldo, that is exactly the issue: you do not want to collaborate with other users on the talk page, which is why you were reluctant to participate in the current RfC. Moreover, there were several SPA's on the side of the opposition as well, including WP:NPOV. In addition, the split was again recently discussed and the specific case to do so was refuted by several editors. As such, there was no consensus for it. I hope this helps. With regards, AnupamTalk 22:52, 20 September 2011 (UTC)]
- No. You are trying to write an article that violates WP:SYNTH because it conflates New Atheism with oppressive communist regimes and their histories of violence. That's hardly NPOV. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:59, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
Hi m.o.p., as someone who occasionally looks at that page (and then washes my hands), I just want to compliment you as having done the right thing in full protecting. By way of unsolicited advice to the involved editors, the best thing they could do is to allow The Wrong Version to sit there a good long time, and devote their energy to other things. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:54, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
]
Yes, please reconsider your full protection of
WP:RS—deserve protection against misinformed reverts. Thanks Geremia (talk) 16:12, 22 September 2011 (UTC)]
Diffs of
- I'm not really sure where the ownership is here; nowhere in our policies is it stated that a user can't promote their RFC on the subject talk page. If it's ongoing and they'd like to move it to the forefront, what's wrong with that? More so, some of your summaries seem inaccurate - in that last diff, you state that Anupam is removing images, yet I only see Anupam adding an image (the peace dove that's at the top of the page). Also, you use repeating examples. m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Well clearly the last diff was wrong. Thanks for the vote of confidence. There are no repeat examples nor inaccurate summaries, just a mistaken copy paste of the second to last diff to the last position as well. I have fixed it. Cheers.
- Using "consensus claims from one RfC to reject changes made to article content
- Same as above. Using the "consensus" bludgeon to get his way. Please note that clearly we ought to edit by consensus, but this consensus is highly disputed, and IMO not there in the first place. The real problem is the way in which Anupam decides to use it like a trump card to remove changes he doesn't like. Ask yourself if all changes post "consensus" have been removed or just the ones Anupam decided he wanted removed.
Master of Puppets do you need more diffs or is this enough?Griswaldo (talk) 23:31, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Well I need more diffs because your "evidence" so far looks like a desperate attempt to incriminate an editor who has been very successful in persuading his colleagues to adopt his proposals. Anupam has presented his proposals, argued the merits and persuaded many editors. Anything you want to tell us about why you're having difficulty doing likewise? – Lionel (talk) 06:02, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- I don't see this is as conclusive evidence, either. And, it should be said - if people are editing against established consensus, then people are free to re-evaluate consensus, but edit-warring against it doesn't make much sense. m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- If not ownership then what is this - [28], [29], [30]? He removes two RfCs started by another editor, and revolving around the question that many of us actually find to be the fundamental question to answer regarding the entry. Then he edit wars to keep these RfCs off the page, claiming again to have some sort of authority stemming from your prior actions. If you aren't willing to do something here I'm going to another administrator and I'm going to ask for your initial "consensus," your strong arm administrating, and your lack of action here to be reviewed as well. Thanks.Griswaldo (talk) 17:08, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Anupam has already apologized for reverting those RfC additions, and we've moved past it. He also didn't claim to have administrative authority, but was waiting for my approval. We've cleared this up, it's not an issue. So no, I'm not going to take any action (as I've said here and on ANI). Now, if you'd like to threaten me and tell me that, since I'm not cooperating with your wills, you'll go to another administrator, that's fine - as I've said, you can seek outside opinions - but remember to keep a cool head, because borderline threats are not appreciated. m.o.p 21:49, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- It was not a threat, "borderline" or otherwise. You are conveniently ignoring a growing number of voices who are all saying the same thing - there is an ownership problem here. The deletion issue has not been "cleared up" as far as I'm concerned. Whenever it is mentioned Anupam insists that he did not "unilaterally" delete the RfCs from the page, which is a blatant distortion, since that is exactly what he did. He continues to act as a policeman at the page, and yes he does continue to cite your authority. Did you bother to read the many diffs I posted above in the second two sections? I will quote three random examples from those I provided for you if you want.
- When he first deleted the two RfCs he wrote: "rv - see discussion with reviewing administrator; approval needed to start another RfC while one is already occurring."
- When he deleted a fact tag that JimWae put into the lede: "rv excessive tagging per talk; tag is already extant in header; do not subvert previous consensus but gain consensus for potential additions per administrative notice"
- When he rejected another recent change to the entry: "accepted edits by User:Jkhwiki; rv removal of longstanding referenced content - see discussion on talk page and gain consensus for action per administrative injunction"
- In talk page comments and in edit summaries he consistently does the same thing. He refers to your authority, either directly or indirectly through your "notice" or your "injunction" as he likes to call it. I never said the claimed to have administrative authority, I said that he's using your authority, by way of your comments, such as the closure of the AfD to bully people. Do you deny that he citing your comments, because if you do then I must have fabricated those quotes. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:32, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
If you say "If you don't do A, then I'm going to go and do B", that's a threat. Anyway, that's not the issue - we've already covered all the issues with the RfC reverting, and Anupam won't do it again. Why keep raising hell over it?
We've already covered everything you bring up. And no, I'm not denying anything. I'm just saying this, and it's very simple: I don't think there has been any blatant ownership here. That's my judgment. If you disagree, again, feel free to raise this with another administrator or on ANI. m.o.p 23:12, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Regarding the new RFC, I still think there has not passed yet too much time since the last discussion about splitting the article. As far as I knew, repeating these sorts of debates (like splitting, deleting, renaming) before a larger amount of time has passed (like 6 months) is usually discouraged. And as others have also argued earlier, even if having multiple RFCs is possible, it's not very useful, and the new RFC seems to discourage further discussion about improving the lead introduction. So preventing multiple RFCs (and also a RFC about an issue debated not too long ago) does not look to me like evidence of bad faith intentions. Cody7777777 (talk) 21:37, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Cody, would you mind linking me to the previous RfC on splitting? m.o.p 21:49, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- The previous attempt to split the article can be found here. Cody7777777 (talk) 21:55, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Response
Yes, it does. Thanks, m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Dear User:Master of Puppets, I just noticed that User:Binksternet started another RfC while a current one is occurring. Is this appropriate? I reverted the addition motioning for one until your response is confirmed. If it is acceptable, then I apologize and will revert my edit. I look forward to your response. With regards, AnupamTalk 15:14, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'll form my reply on ANI. m.o.p 17:12, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- When you do please take into account my comment just above, regarding Anupam's edit warring to remove talk page comments (namely these RfCs) posted by others on the talk page. If you still don't think this is WP:OWN then clearly other administrators are needed here.Griswaldo (talk) 17:15, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Dear User:Griswaldo, how is going to a neutral mediator to address the issue owning the article? I acknowledge that the article is in dispute and as a result, I am asking an administrator for advice in this matter, NOT handling things on my own, as you have done by edit warring. Your WP:OWN allegations have not only been dismissed by this administrator, but by several other users, including, User:Lionelt, User:Cody7777777 and User:NYyankees51. Thanks, AnupamTalk 17:27, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- In reply to Griswaldo: reverting the RfCs was a mistake, but we've cleared that up now. As Anupam has stated at ANI, the intent was not to discourage discussion. If you think my judgment is compromised, you're welcome to seek another administrator's input. m.o.p 21:04, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- And as further evidence of WP:OWN, see this. Anupam adds a comment to everything that anyone else says, as if he/she is the owner of the article and everyone else is a subordinate contributor. This particular instance is pretty benign (although it clutters up the talk page with an unnecessary comment that merely says "I agree"), but I do think that Anupam at least needs to learn how to avoid giving the appearance of thinking he/she owns the article, and to desist from chipping in and saying the same thing over and over again, which almost makes meaningful discussion impossible! SNALWIBMA ( talk - contribs ) 17:31, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- While the input is appreciated, as I've said before, making allegations of ownership without hard evidence isn't going to get us anywhere. Anupam is not stopping others from discussing changes or forming consensus, and that's all that matters - refactoring the talk page or commenting on an issue is not against policy, and I'm not going to tell someone to stop editing because it "looks" like they're doing something wrong. As said above, you're welcome to request another administrator's insight if you wish. m.o.p 21:04, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
COIHi
you've helped me out before, with a conflict of interest problem, so having much more experience than me on wikipedia, I thought I would be bold enough to ask again for help.
Similar problem to last, User_talk:Hobbycraft is editing the HOBBYCRAFT article and making changes that aren't citably right. I think the user name suggest and history suggests a conflict of interest case.
Can you please, speak to them addressing this issue.
Thank you very much for your help.
Markcoulter50 (talk) 22:27, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
- I've blocked that user for username violations. Thanks a lot for letting me know! Keep up the great work, m.o.p 23:00, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkbackcausa sui (talk) 18:47, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Hello. You have a new message at causa sui's talk page. causa sui (talk) 20:54, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Problematic editing on militant atheism
- I hope it's not considered defamatory to repeat the final line: "I merely present the diffs above, and let others draw their own conclusions. Is this a duck? Does it quack? You decide.". Unfortunately, the concerned community no longer has that opportunity. What did you decide on their behalf? Does this duck quack, or not? bobrayner (talk) 15:42, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- It's not your wording, it's the very idea of it. Going to what's allegorically a public place and shouting, "Hey, everybody, this man is a criminal!" is one step below blatantly forming a lynch mob. As I've said, I have no problem with your wording or evidence, just your location of choice. Wikipedia is not, unfortunately, a democracy - letting others draw their conclusions and voice their opinions is not how a sockpuppet investigation works.
- So yes, please don't go restoring any of that section. We're not discussing editors, we're discussing the content they produce. Anything else has a sub-board to deal with it (like WP:SPI).
- Hopefully that clears things up! I'll be happy to answer any more questions should you have them. Cheers, m.o.p 15:48, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Hello User:Bobrayner, I noticed the section you created on the militant atheism talk page. If you do feel the way you do about User:Turnsalso and the anonymous IP Addresses, you can take this up with WP:SPI. Thanks, AnupamTalk 15:52, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
Are you kidding my MoP? Above your write: Going to what's allegorically a public place and shouting, "Hey, everybody, this man is a criminal!" is one step below blatantly forming a lynch mob. AND We're not discussing editors, we're discussing the content they produce. Yet you call this edit by Lionelt "good faith," at WQA? MoP, I would not ask you to agree with me or to like me, but can I please ask you not to insult me with these double standards.Griswaldo (talk) 16:18, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
]
- Griswaldo, I mean no offense when I say this, but I'd appreciate it if you stayed out of discussions which didn't involve you. Also, please don't put words in my mouth. Thanks, m.o.p 16:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I have not put words in your mouth. You said that you would assume good faith about Lionel. If you "assume good faith" it means you assume his edits were in "good faith." If you did not intend that meaning I suggest you reconsider what you wrote. Also, if you want me to "stay out of discussion which don't involve me" then I suggest your first order of business should be to do the same thing yourself. You decided to post at WQA, when there was no mention of you or anything you've done in that thread. Once again, I expect people not to practice double standards. So as long as you cannot show me that you will treat me as you ask to be treated yourself, I will not oblige you. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:21, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Please stop bickering. I'm not quite sure what you're trying to accomplish here. I've already explained what I meant when I said assuming good faith, but I'll explain again: I assumed that Lionelt was not hounding or deliberately haranguing you. I did not say, at any point, that his edit content was good faith, and I've told him not to edit like that again. So please stop accusing me of saying things I haven't said.
- Also, I posted in WQA because, as a mediator in this case and as an administrator, it's my duty to weigh in on administrative noticeboards, especially when the case is an ongoing discussion I've been participating in for three months. It is not your duty to weigh in on discussions on my talk page that don't concern you. I hope the distinction is clear here. m.o.p 20:33, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I think you are confused about something. Content is never good faith. "Editing in good faith" and "good faith edits" refers to the intent of the editor always. It has nothing to do with content. My assumption that you also felt the edits were appropriate comes from the fact that you did not say they weren't appropriate and clearly feel that his intentions were good. If you'd like to set the record straight on that issue you still can. I've asked you twice now to discuss the actual edits that are the focal point of the thread. Also, I moved the thread to ANI, per the suggestion of the editor who marked it "resolved."Griswaldo (talk) 20:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- See Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#User:Lionelt_--_following_my_past_edits_to_drum_up_support_against_me. FYI, I copy pasted the entire discussion because both you and Collect were critical of my initial post and I thought it was the right thing to do to preserve that criticism in the record of the conversation. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:43, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- In reply to your first paragraph: I'm going to give up now, as it seems you're misunderstanding most of what I type, but you're the one who stated that the content was not good faith (as you said, not appropriate), and I agreed - I referred to his intent in replying to you, and said that I assumed good faith in his motives, not his replies. I can't really say that in a clearer way, so my apologies if it's hard to understand. Also, as I've already said, I've left a message for Lionelt about his edits, so clearly I do not feel they're appropriate. m.o.p 20:57, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I, too, find these double standards vexing.
- Which diff is defamatory?
- I had hitherto thought that people on the article talkpage might like to be aware of potential problems with votestacking on the article talkpage (and 3rr evasion, of course). Would it be permitted to add a link to that list of diffs when it's in a different place, or would you consider that defamatory too? bobrayner (talk) 16:23, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- As I said, the information is not defamatory, but the way it's presented is - we have specific processes available to pursue should one feel there are sockpuppets about. However, calling someone out with the intent of informing the community is overstepping your authority and damaging to the accused's character. Also, there's no way a community discussion about whether or not one editor is a sockpuppet can end in anything other than a sockpuppet investigation anyway.
- So, in closing, please don't bring issues like this to the talk page. If you're concerned about votestacking, take it to the appropriate venue - if your concerns are validated, we'll take measures against said puppets. Cheers, m.o.p 16:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I am very disappointed that it's no longer permissible to raise problems with article-editing on the article talkpage. Previous concerns about sockpuppetry were simply ignored; the difference this time is that it's backed by lots of diffs.
- I'm fairly confident that the people concerned have sufficient technical nous to make checkuser draw a blank. And, let's be entirely honest, within minutes of me creating an SPI, an admin of the right persuasion will be getting an email suggesting that an SPI needs their attention. And SPI does not see offsite coordination by a facebook group &c. Finally, any null result at SPI will be used at the article in much the same way as previous administrative decisions have been. So, I do not believe that an SPI will improve either the article, or the encyclopædia as a whole. bobrayner (talk) 17:08, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- If you don't think the pre-existing methods set in place for situations like this are sufficient, you can always raise that concern at the village pump or suggest a policy revision - however, SPI is the venue for these requests, and the only venue. The talk page can not substitute. m.o.p 17:10, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
76.228.226.122Thank you for blocking the anonymous user, who is being counterproductive and rude. (although I think the block should have been one week, but I guess ok at least)
Can you also please try to hide the edit summaries of these edits if possible?
This and
this
Thanks and regards, talk 05:04, 26 September 2011 (UTC)]
- I'll extend the block if this behaviour continues after the block period is over.
- As for the edit summaries, those don't warrant hiding - I apologize for their content, but they don't meet the criteria of what I should remove. It's best just to ignore them for now. Cheers, m.o.p 05:13, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
- Okay, good to know, if I did nothing wrong, no permanent block will be enforced. The IP does not volunteer on WP as an admin and so the disproportionately out of line comments and threats of his should be ignored. --talk 05:19, 26 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Sounds good. We only hide extremely offensive revisions; milder ones stay in the edit history. Thanks again for bringing this to our attention! Cheers, m.o.p 05:31, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
Email
Jasper Deng (talk) 05:29, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
- Reading. talk) 06:00, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Bad Girls Club
- I've blocked Junebea for 2 days for disregarding warnings. m.o.p 20:30, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks for helping :) Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 21:06, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkback
- And again.Griswaldo (talk) 04:24, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
- And again ... but maybe the last. You can settle this question once and for all. See the talk page.Griswaldo (talk) 06:09, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'm sure I'm not alone in wanting to hear your replies to the last responses posed to you at that page. IMO, I don't know why you went down the road you did, but as far as I can tell you're blatantly misrepesenting facts about your own actions when people are brining concerns to you. You might think that since you closed the RfC the matter is settled, but it is not. You're actions have not made my life any more pleasant in the last few days vis-a-vis trying to deal with Anupam's disruption and I think you owe us all answers. So please revisit this thread and deal with the open questions. Thanks.Griswaldo (talk) 02:19, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
- I invite you to stop asking the same question again and again. This would be appreciated. Thanks, m.o.p 02:33, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Block question
- No, I just block obviously bad-faith accounts on sight. Advertising/spam accounts fall under that category. m.o.p 00:37, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Thanks
- Thank you. I've unlocked the article for whatever may come. If I'm needed again, feel free to let me know. Thanks for the kind words again, m.o.p 05:12, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
reminder
- We're still waiting to see if the user understands COI policy (per Ed's question). I'll prod the user and see if they'll answer. talk) 19:20, 30 September 2011 (UTC)]
Nextel logo deleted
- Mmm, good point. What's the link to the logo in question? m.o.p 01:33, 2 October 2011 (UTC)
Support of Sage City SymphonyYou deleted this page before I had a chance to go back in and add the stuff that you wanted to see, including the links within Wikipedia to important composers such as Lou Callabro (who started this orchestra and cites it in his Wikipedia page) and Susan Hurley whose work we premiered (SC is also mentioned in her Wikipedia entry). (Let alone links about the works we have performed.) And we have a web site at www.sagecitysymphony.org, have existed for over 35 yrs and are a significant cultural resource in the Bennington area such that we receive grants from local, statewide and national foundations.
I broke my wrist last weekend and am doing one-handed pecking so it'll take me a few days to get that loaded in. We are going out for a bit now, but I would appreciate your undeleting the page so that I don't have to re-invent the starting part when I go back in tomorrow to add links. Or delete it entirely so that I can start fresh - at this point either would work as long as I can start some serious work on it tomorrow. I am the webmaster by the way, so I do have access to content and more links.
Thank you, Celia Murray — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.228.127.119 (talk) 14:22, 1 October 2011 (UTC)
- It looks like fixed everything up. Best of luck, m.o.p 01:35, 2 October 2011 (UTC)]
Reply on Deterence's talk page
MA
After the beating you took you deserve a cold one--on me! Thanks for being fair and balanced – Lionel (talk) 03:55, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
- Hey, thanks! Glad to help out. :) m.o.p 03:56, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
Deletion of Mau5trap Recordings
--neocharles (talk) 07:33, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Existence does not equal notability - the subject has to be notable to get a Wikipedia page. m.o.p 12:05, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
Questoin re: AIV
- Addendum, actually, I read it very clearly in WP:VANDNOT: "Uploading or using material on Wikipedia in violation of Wikipedia's copyright policies is prohibited, but is not vandalism unless the user does so maliciously or fails to heed warnings." So if a person fails to heed warnings it is vandalism. My mistake here was that I only warned once. --Muhandes (talk) 12:29, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Eh, technically it is vandalism, but the user seems to be trying to improve the Wikipedia - that desire to help is misplaced in this case, as they seem to think that using copyrighted content is actually better. Weird. For most cases, yes, you should report copyvio to AIV - as long as they've been warned sufficiently. m.o.p 12:42, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- OK, he now did it again and the time stamp is after your last warning. Is it vandalism now? --Muhandes (talk) 12:32, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Yeah, if they're outright ignoring warnings. I've blocked for three days. m.o.p 12:40, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
Classmusic
- Oh, I know. But if somebody's lied to my face about using another account - and to other editors working on the article - I'm not about to let them go without a repercussion or two. I'd like Almost-instinct and Voceditnore to look over the article and fix up anything shifty. Also, I'd like Classmusic to respond to my warning, instead of blanking it and ignoring like they have to the above-named editors.
- So, in short, I know that COI doesn't bar editing, but it's enough of a concern that, given the user's recent behaviour, I'll stop them from doing anything until we've figured things out. This isn't too rouge-y, is it? I didn't hear that. Perhaps he is unaware of the sockpuppet investigation findings. Anyhow it seems that DeltaQuad has also blocked the Classmusic account. I left a note on his page about using the unblock template, but re-iterated that he needs to read the COI and Autobiography guidelines and stick to them scrupulously, if he gets unblocked. In the Opera and Classical Music WikiProjects, we get a lot of articles for performers, ensembles, etc. created by their agents and PR people, and often themselves. In my experience, the best I can hope for after one of these tussles is that they'll edit their article according to the guidelines in future. I have yet to find a single one who has ever contributed anything else to Wikipedia. Their only interest in the project is as a PR tool. Having said that, at least it results (after much red-pencilling from other editors) in one new article on a notable subject that we didn't have before and in a small way redresses the pop culture systemic bias here. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 13:40, 5 October 2011 (UTC)]
Danish election
- Never mind, it's been pulled by another admin. All the best, Jenks24 (talk) 11:03, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry about that! I was busy all day and didn't get your message until now. Thanks for letting me know, though! Cheers, m.o.p 19:51, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
3RRHey there! :)
Well WP:CRYSTAL has wined down, however, there's currently a
The Bad Girls Club (season 7). I have notified the two users [32], [33]. The evidence can be found here. They are having an edit-conflict on how the "Duration of cast" should be presented. Since there's no rules regarding anything like that, and it was made up about a year ago, I couldn't warned them to stop their e/c with anything except the 3RR rule. Maybe they need an admin to tell them to stop, so that's why I came to you :) Thanks, Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 01:17, 6 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Temporary page protection requested. Calabe1992 (talk) 01:29, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
Say hi to your imaginary girlfriend for me
- Well, I do love getting hate mail. Thanks for the laugh! Cheers, m.o.p 05:17, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
...further to the above lovely note, I weighed in on Calabe's talk page - there appears to be more confusion here than at first glance. bou·le·var·dier (talk) 05:19, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
Sorry to drop by again, but Silentsizzlingsausage (talk · contribs) would appear to be a duck. bou·le·var·dier (talk) 05:31, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
- No, it's not an issue! Thanks for the note, blocked. Cheers, WP:SPI. Thanks again, m.o.p 06:13, 14 September 2011 (UTC)]
I have to admit ...
- See the above section. The link is apparently a very subtle spam link that Calabe is removing, and socks are springing up to revert him. Swarm u / t 10:20, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
Moderation
- Alright, I'll make my way back. Thanks for letting me know! m.o.p 05:18, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
User:12.139.96.228
- To be honest, this case is perplexing. Half of this user's edits are constructive (mostly sourced), the other half aren't sourced - and the user won't reply to anybody. I'm also too busy to go through every edit and confirm whether or not it's good. I forgot about this for a while - I'll think about it tonight and figure something out for tomorrow. Thanks for reminding me! m.o.p 05:18, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
Whoops
- Whoops! Must not have been looking when I ran my block script. Thanks for letting me know, I've reblocked them for a far shorter (technically, an infinitely shorter) time. Cheers, m.o.p 22:58, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
Ashleyleggat404
- You're fully right in that the blanking policy covers indefinite blocks. I've removed the user's talk page rights as a result. Thanks again! m.o.p 00:28, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkback
Moderation
- If you look into this please consider whether Anupam's actions on the talk page and the entry itself are violations of WP:OWN. He's been driving off those he disagrees with by bludgening them to death with argument and heavily policing the entry claiming that there is a consensus written in stone despite many dissenting voices. Others have taken to simply calling him "the article's owner." I have had enough of this behavior personally and left him a message about it on his talk page. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:52, 20 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Dear User:Master of Puppets, the above user has misrepresented the occurrences at the article. I started another Introduction discussion at the article's talk page but User:Griswaldo has chosen to edit war over a second NPOV tag, despite the fact that one already exists in the article. He has done so despite the fact that the Introduction is being discussed in a peaceful manner at the talk page, in violation of your injunction: "We've only got consensus on this proposed versions (and loose consensus at that) - please do not attempt to subvert said consensus by making undiscussed changes." I have posted a message on his talk page about this behaviour. Nevertheless, I also do not wish to argue with the user personally and would prefer if you could go back to moderating the discussion between the two parties at the talk page. Thanks for taking the time to read this message. With regards, AnupamTalk 20:58, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- His "injunction?" Adding a neutrality tag to a specific sentence which an editor disputes the neutrality of is hardly "subverting the consensus by making undiscussed changes." Please stop wikilawyering to get your way. There is a growing consensus against your position regarding this article in general as well, despite your aggressive policing of the entry and the talk page. See ]
- I just thought that I would mention that User:Griswaldo, after seeing this message, just now decided to comment in the discussion rather than edit war against consensus further. Thanks for taking the time to read this message. With regards, AnupamTalk 21:51, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- "Edit war against consensus further?" My comment there has nothing to do with your message here. I've made three total edits to this entry ever. One was a copy edit in June, another was reverting an IP vandal, and the third was the revert of your Ownership edit. Please do not insinuate that I'm a edit warrior on this page. It is disingenuous.Griswaldo (talk) 22:08, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Thank you all for approaching me with your concerns.
- Obviously, I do not support Anupam - this is because I'm remaining a neutral third party, and, therefore, can't take sides. However, Griswaldo: please keep in mind that I did ask for all discussion to take place on the talk page. Why not just add your complaints to the talk page? It would have been much easier to discuss.
- I do agree that adding a NPOV tag, while slightly redundant, isn't horrible, but your intent seems to have been to stir discussion on that particular section, discussion that would be much more appropriate on the talk page.
- As for your and Snalwibma's concerns of Anupam trying to 'own' the article, I'm curious as to what you two mean; what 'delusions'?
- Also, Griswaldo, I don't think Anupam meant to insinuate you are an edit warrior (though this is just my take) - rather, they wanted to add the note that you've weighed in on discussion. m.o.p 22:10, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- your intent seems to have been to stir discussion on that particular section - No that's incorrect. I didn't add this tag, I simply reverted Anupam's attempt to own the page when he removed it. I agreed with JimWae's addition of the tag and found Anupam's removal to be unwarranted and a display of ownership.Griswaldo (talk) 22:16, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Note that, for all intents and purposes, reverting somebody is adding whatever is included in your edit, regardless of who put it there first. You revert a removal, you're agreeing with the edition you're reverting to - simple.
- And, if you agreed with JimWae, then we go back to what I was saying earlier - say so on the talk page. Two of you agree? Great! That's closer to consensus. But it means nothing if you express your support by reverting removals.
- Again, as I've asked multiple times, please stop saying that Anupam is owning anything without giving me evidence of it first. m.o.p 22:22, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Dear User:Master of Puppets, thank you for your reply to all of us. The reason User:Snalwibma stated that I was attempting to "own" the article was because I reverted an undiscussed removal from the article, which not only myself, but two other users objected to. In fact, two anonymous IP Addresses also reverted User:Snalwibma. I was open to compromise on the issue and stated that I would accept User:Turnsalso's compromise on the issue. I kindly request you to look at that discussion yourself and get an honest reading of it. Also, the only reason I removed the second NPOV tag was because there was already one present, which I did not remove. I only reverted the addition of a second NPOV tag once and even explained myself on the talk page. When I went to the talk page, I found rude accusations and an anti-collaborative spirit, despite the fact that I have been nothing but polite. I hope this helps. With regards, AnupamTalk 22:25, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry - I know I should not rise to the bait, but I have to object to the comment "The reason User:Snalwibma stated that I was attempting to 'own' the article was because I reverted an undiscussed removal ..." How dare Anupam presume to know what is in my mind! The reason I describe Anupam's attitude to the article as one of ownership is because that is how s/he behaves - "policing" every edit, pronouncing on whether s/he "accepts" or "rejects" it, peremptorily reverting anything s/he does not like, without discussion, presuming to know others' motives, and judging them as fit/unfit to contribute to the article. This has been going on for weeks, if not months. It is impossible to discuss the content of the article, let alone improve the text, because everything is filtered through the approval/disapproval of the article's self-appointed guardian, Anupam. tendentious or disruptive when they bring up certain issues, even when they are clearly in the majority. That is not collaborative. I stopped editing the article heavily because of those issues. I don't have any delusions that my opinion is worth more than anyone else's here, but I would think that the large number of established, experienced editors who are all saying there's a problem, would indicate something. — Jess· Δ♥ 19:45, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
Please reconsider your full protection of Militant atheist
- In case you didn't notice, I asked that people think twice about pointing fingers at each other. If you'd like to start a sockpuppetry investigation, let me know, and we can take that avenue - however, don't accuse other editors of ownership without substance. If you think Anupam is trying to own things, give me something. Diffs, edits, anything. I'll check it out for you, but right now, baseless accusations are not what I'm looking for.
- Also, notice that I protected the article with your edit being the last one. How is that validating the very person you've been reverting?
- The protection will stay until consensus is reached. m.o.p 22:19, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Because protection is what he wants quite clearly. He's stalling conversation and shouting down people on the talk page, where, if you have a look, you'll see he's clearly in the minority. Because of your "injunction" as he calls it, he also claims that no matter how many people agree with a certain change it is illegitimate. I'll be happy to gather some diffs, but my first message to you above was to please look into the situation carefully before acting on it. Did you do that and come to the conclusion that I'm wrong or did you not head that request? Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:29, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Yes, I did heed your request. I don't see any ownership behaviour from Anupam, though, being involved in multiple disputes, I didn't have the time to read every last word on the page, so you're free to provide evidence. However, from what I can see, Anupam's last proposal was supported by the majority - not to count (and I don't mean to imply that I decide where consensus lies by looking at pure numbers), but from looking at pure supports versus opposes, eight people (nine including Anupam) support while four oppose. How does that make Anupam's views a minority? m.o.p 22:37, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- It depends on what view you are talking about. The current RFC on the introduction is something that most people don't even want to engage because most people think this very entry should be split up and integrated into other entries. I reluctantly engaged the RfC just now myself. The last time the more serious question about the entry was asked, several of the new commentators were not around, and there was "no consensus" found because the opposing side was chalk full of SPAs and editors with a view that is outright hostile to atheism (which is a legitimate view to hold, but it is a minority view). Let me find you some diffs.Griswaldo (talk) 22:43, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- User:Griswaldo, that is exactly the issue: you do not want to collaborate with other users on the talk page, which is why you were reluctant to participate in the current RfC. Moreover, there were several SPA's on the side of the opposition as well, including WP:NPOV. In addition, the split was again recently discussed and the specific case to do so was refuted by several editors. As such, there was no consensus for it. I hope this helps. With regards, AnupamTalk 22:52, 20 September 2011 (UTC)]
- No. You are trying to write an article that violates WP:SYNTH because it conflates New Atheism with oppressive communist regimes and their histories of violence. That's hardly NPOV. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:59, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
Hi m.o.p., as someone who occasionally looks at that page (and then washes my hands), I just want to compliment you as having done the right thing in full protecting. By way of unsolicited advice to the involved editors, the best thing they could do is to allow The Wrong Version to sit there a good long time, and devote their energy to other things. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:54, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
]
Yes, please reconsider your full protection of
WP:RS—deserve protection against misinformed reverts. Thanks Geremia (talk) 16:12, 22 September 2011 (UTC)]
Diffs of
- I'm not really sure where the ownership is here; nowhere in our policies is it stated that a user can't promote their RFC on the subject talk page. If it's ongoing and they'd like to move it to the forefront, what's wrong with that? More so, some of your summaries seem inaccurate - in that last diff, you state that Anupam is removing images, yet I only see Anupam adding an image (the peace dove that's at the top of the page). Also, you use repeating examples. m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Well clearly the last diff was wrong. Thanks for the vote of confidence. There are no repeat examples nor inaccurate summaries, just a mistaken copy paste of the second to last diff to the last position as well. I have fixed it. Cheers.
- Using "consensus claims from one RfC to reject changes made to article content
- Same as above. Using the "consensus" bludgeon to get his way. Please note that clearly we ought to edit by consensus, but this consensus is highly disputed, and IMO not there in the first place. The real problem is the way in which Anupam decides to use it like a trump card to remove changes he doesn't like. Ask yourself if all changes post "consensus" have been removed or just the ones Anupam decided he wanted removed.
Master of Puppets do you need more diffs or is this enough?Griswaldo (talk) 23:31, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Well I need more diffs because your "evidence" so far looks like a desperate attempt to incriminate an editor who has been very successful in persuading his colleagues to adopt his proposals. Anupam has presented his proposals, argued the merits and persuaded many editors. Anything you want to tell us about why you're having difficulty doing likewise? – Lionel (talk) 06:02, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- I don't see this is as conclusive evidence, either. And, it should be said - if people are editing against established consensus, then people are free to re-evaluate consensus, but edit-warring against it doesn't make much sense. m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- If not ownership then what is this - [28], [29], [30]? He removes two RfCs started by another editor, and revolving around the question that many of us actually find to be the fundamental question to answer regarding the entry. Then he edit wars to keep these RfCs off the page, claiming again to have some sort of authority stemming from your prior actions. If you aren't willing to do something here I'm going to another administrator and I'm going to ask for your initial "consensus," your strong arm administrating, and your lack of action here to be reviewed as well. Thanks.Griswaldo (talk) 17:08, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Anupam has already apologized for reverting those RfC additions, and we've moved past it. He also didn't claim to have administrative authority, but was waiting for my approval. We've cleared this up, it's not an issue. So no, I'm not going to take any action (as I've said here and on ANI). Now, if you'd like to threaten me and tell me that, since I'm not cooperating with your wills, you'll go to another administrator, that's fine - as I've said, you can seek outside opinions - but remember to keep a cool head, because borderline threats are not appreciated. m.o.p 21:49, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- It was not a threat, "borderline" or otherwise. You are conveniently ignoring a growing number of voices who are all saying the same thing - there is an ownership problem here. The deletion issue has not been "cleared up" as far as I'm concerned. Whenever it is mentioned Anupam insists that he did not "unilaterally" delete the RfCs from the page, which is a blatant distortion, since that is exactly what he did. He continues to act as a policeman at the page, and yes he does continue to cite your authority. Did you bother to read the many diffs I posted above in the second two sections? I will quote three random examples from those I provided for you if you want.
- When he first deleted the two RfCs he wrote: "rv - see discussion with reviewing administrator; approval needed to start another RfC while one is already occurring."
- When he deleted a fact tag that JimWae put into the lede: "rv excessive tagging per talk; tag is already extant in header; do not subvert previous consensus but gain consensus for potential additions per administrative notice"
- When he rejected another recent change to the entry: "accepted edits by User:Jkhwiki; rv removal of longstanding referenced content - see discussion on talk page and gain consensus for action per administrative injunction"
- In talk page comments and in edit summaries he consistently does the same thing. He refers to your authority, either directly or indirectly through your "notice" or your "injunction" as he likes to call it. I never said the claimed to have administrative authority, I said that he's using your authority, by way of your comments, such as the closure of the AfD to bully people. Do you deny that he citing your comments, because if you do then I must have fabricated those quotes. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:32, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
If you say "If you don't do A, then I'm going to go and do B", that's a threat. Anyway, that's not the issue - we've already covered all the issues with the RfC reverting, and Anupam won't do it again. Why keep raising hell over it?
We've already covered everything you bring up. And no, I'm not denying anything. I'm just saying this, and it's very simple: I don't think there has been any blatant ownership here. That's my judgment. If you disagree, again, feel free to raise this with another administrator or on ANI. m.o.p 23:12, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Regarding the new RFC, I still think there has not passed yet too much time since the last discussion about splitting the article. As far as I knew, repeating these sorts of debates (like splitting, deleting, renaming) before a larger amount of time has passed (like 6 months) is usually discouraged. And as others have also argued earlier, even if having multiple RFCs is possible, it's not very useful, and the new RFC seems to discourage further discussion about improving the lead introduction. So preventing multiple RFCs (and also a RFC about an issue debated not too long ago) does not look to me like evidence of bad faith intentions. Cody7777777 (talk) 21:37, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Cody, would you mind linking me to the previous RfC on splitting? m.o.p 21:49, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- The previous attempt to split the article can be found here. Cody7777777 (talk) 21:55, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Response
Yes, it does. Thanks, m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Dear User:Master of Puppets, I just noticed that User:Binksternet started another RfC while a current one is occurring. Is this appropriate? I reverted the addition motioning for one until your response is confirmed. If it is acceptable, then I apologize and will revert my edit. I look forward to your response. With regards, AnupamTalk 15:14, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'll form my reply on ANI. m.o.p 17:12, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- When you do please take into account my comment just above, regarding Anupam's edit warring to remove talk page comments (namely these RfCs) posted by others on the talk page. If you still don't think this is WP:OWN then clearly other administrators are needed here.Griswaldo (talk) 17:15, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Dear User:Griswaldo, how is going to a neutral mediator to address the issue owning the article? I acknowledge that the article is in dispute and as a result, I am asking an administrator for advice in this matter, NOT handling things on my own, as you have done by edit warring. Your WP:OWN allegations have not only been dismissed by this administrator, but by several other users, including, User:Lionelt, User:Cody7777777 and User:NYyankees51. Thanks, AnupamTalk 17:27, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- In reply to Griswaldo: reverting the RfCs was a mistake, but we've cleared that up now. As Anupam has stated at ANI, the intent was not to discourage discussion. If you think my judgment is compromised, you're welcome to seek another administrator's input. m.o.p 21:04, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- And as further evidence of WP:OWN, see this. Anupam adds a comment to everything that anyone else says, as if he/she is the owner of the article and everyone else is a subordinate contributor. This particular instance is pretty benign (although it clutters up the talk page with an unnecessary comment that merely says "I agree"), but I do think that Anupam at least needs to learn how to avoid giving the appearance of thinking he/she owns the article, and to desist from chipping in and saying the same thing over and over again, which almost makes meaningful discussion impossible! SNALWIBMA ( talk - contribs ) 17:31, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- While the input is appreciated, as I've said before, making allegations of ownership without hard evidence isn't going to get us anywhere. Anupam is not stopping others from discussing changes or forming consensus, and that's all that matters - refactoring the talk page or commenting on an issue is not against policy, and I'm not going to tell someone to stop editing because it "looks" like they're doing something wrong. As said above, you're welcome to request another administrator's insight if you wish. m.o.p 21:04, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
COIHi
you've helped me out before, with a conflict of interest problem, so having much more experience than me on wikipedia, I thought I would be bold enough to ask again for help.
Similar problem to last, User_talk:Hobbycraft is editing the HOBBYCRAFT article and making changes that aren't citably right. I think the user name suggest and history suggests a conflict of interest case.
Can you please, speak to them addressing this issue.
Thank you very much for your help.
Markcoulter50 (talk) 22:27, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
- I've blocked that user for username violations. Thanks a lot for letting me know! Keep up the great work, m.o.p 23:00, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkbackcausa sui (talk) 18:47, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Hello. You have a new message at causa sui's talk page. causa sui (talk) 20:54, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Problematic editing on militant atheism
- I hope it's not considered defamatory to repeat the final line: "I merely present the diffs above, and let others draw their own conclusions. Is this a duck? Does it quack? You decide.". Unfortunately, the concerned community no longer has that opportunity. What did you decide on their behalf? Does this duck quack, or not? bobrayner (talk) 15:42, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- It's not your wording, it's the very idea of it. Going to what's allegorically a public place and shouting, "Hey, everybody, this man is a criminal!" is one step below blatantly forming a lynch mob. As I've said, I have no problem with your wording or evidence, just your location of choice. Wikipedia is not, unfortunately, a democracy - letting others draw their conclusions and voice their opinions is not how a sockpuppet investigation works.
- So yes, please don't go restoring any of that section. We're not discussing editors, we're discussing the content they produce. Anything else has a sub-board to deal with it (like WP:SPI).
- Hopefully that clears things up! I'll be happy to answer any more questions should you have them. Cheers, m.o.p 15:48, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Hello User:Bobrayner, I noticed the section you created on the militant atheism talk page. If you do feel the way you do about User:Turnsalso and the anonymous IP Addresses, you can take this up with WP:SPI. Thanks, AnupamTalk 15:52, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
Are you kidding my MoP? Above your write: Going to what's allegorically a public place and shouting, "Hey, everybody, this man is a criminal!" is one step below blatantly forming a lynch mob. AND We're not discussing editors, we're discussing the content they produce. Yet you call this edit by Lionelt "good faith," at WQA? MoP, I would not ask you to agree with me or to like me, but can I please ask you not to insult me with these double standards.Griswaldo (talk) 16:18, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
]
- Griswaldo, I mean no offense when I say this, but I'd appreciate it if you stayed out of discussions which didn't involve you. Also, please don't put words in my mouth. Thanks, m.o.p 16:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I have not put words in your mouth. You said that you would assume good faith about Lionel. If you "assume good faith" it means you assume his edits were in "good faith." If you did not intend that meaning I suggest you reconsider what you wrote. Also, if you want me to "stay out of discussion which don't involve me" then I suggest your first order of business should be to do the same thing yourself. You decided to post at WQA, when there was no mention of you or anything you've done in that thread. Once again, I expect people not to practice double standards. So as long as you cannot show me that you will treat me as you ask to be treated yourself, I will not oblige you. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:21, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Please stop bickering. I'm not quite sure what you're trying to accomplish here. I've already explained what I meant when I said assuming good faith, but I'll explain again: I assumed that Lionelt was not hounding or deliberately haranguing you. I did not say, at any point, that his edit content was good faith, and I've told him not to edit like that again. So please stop accusing me of saying things I haven't said.
- Also, I posted in WQA because, as a mediator in this case and as an administrator, it's my duty to weigh in on administrative noticeboards, especially when the case is an ongoing discussion I've been participating in for three months. It is not your duty to weigh in on discussions on my talk page that don't concern you. I hope the distinction is clear here. m.o.p 20:33, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I think you are confused about something. Content is never good faith. "Editing in good faith" and "good faith edits" refers to the intent of the editor always. It has nothing to do with content. My assumption that you also felt the edits were appropriate comes from the fact that you did not say they weren't appropriate and clearly feel that his intentions were good. If you'd like to set the record straight on that issue you still can. I've asked you twice now to discuss the actual edits that are the focal point of the thread. Also, I moved the thread to ANI, per the suggestion of the editor who marked it "resolved."Griswaldo (talk) 20:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- See Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#User:Lionelt_--_following_my_past_edits_to_drum_up_support_against_me. FYI, I copy pasted the entire discussion because both you and Collect were critical of my initial post and I thought it was the right thing to do to preserve that criticism in the record of the conversation. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:43, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- In reply to your first paragraph: I'm going to give up now, as it seems you're misunderstanding most of what I type, but you're the one who stated that the content was not good faith (as you said, not appropriate), and I agreed - I referred to his intent in replying to you, and said that I assumed good faith in his motives, not his replies. I can't really say that in a clearer way, so my apologies if it's hard to understand. Also, as I've already said, I've left a message for Lionelt about his edits, so clearly I do not feel they're appropriate. m.o.p 20:57, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I, too, find these double standards vexing.
- Which diff is defamatory?
- I had hitherto thought that people on the article talkpage might like to be aware of potential problems with votestacking on the article talkpage (and 3rr evasion, of course). Would it be permitted to add a link to that list of diffs when it's in a different place, or would you consider that defamatory too? bobrayner (talk) 16:23, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- As I said, the information is not defamatory, but the way it's presented is - we have specific processes available to pursue should one feel there are sockpuppets about. However, calling someone out with the intent of informing the community is overstepping your authority and damaging to the accused's character. Also, there's no way a community discussion about whether or not one editor is a sockpuppet can end in anything other than a sockpuppet investigation anyway.
- So, in closing, please don't bring issues like this to the talk page. If you're concerned about votestacking, take it to the appropriate venue - if your concerns are validated, we'll take measures against said puppets. Cheers, m.o.p 16:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I am very disappointed that it's no longer permissible to raise problems with article-editing on the article talkpage. Previous concerns about sockpuppetry were simply ignored; the difference this time is that it's backed by lots of diffs.
- I'm fairly confident that the people concerned have sufficient technical nous to make checkuser draw a blank. And, let's be entirely honest, within minutes of me creating an SPI, an admin of the right persuasion will be getting an email suggesting that an SPI needs their attention. And SPI does not see offsite coordination by a facebook group &c. Finally, any null result at SPI will be used at the article in much the same way as previous administrative decisions have been. So, I do not believe that an SPI will improve either the article, or the encyclopædia as a whole. bobrayner (talk) 17:08, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- If you don't think the pre-existing methods set in place for situations like this are sufficient, you can always raise that concern at the village pump or suggest a policy revision - however, SPI is the venue for these requests, and the only venue. The talk page can not substitute. m.o.p 17:10, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
76.228.226.122Thank you for blocking the anonymous user, who is being counterproductive and rude. (although I think the block should have been one week, but I guess ok at least)
Can you also please try to hide the edit summaries of these edits if possible?
This and
this
Thanks and regards, talk 05:04, 26 September 2011 (UTC)]
- I'll extend the block if this behaviour continues after the block period is over.
- As for the edit summaries, those don't warrant hiding - I apologize for their content, but they don't meet the criteria of what I should remove. It's best just to ignore them for now. Cheers, m.o.p 05:13, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
- Okay, good to know, if I did nothing wrong, no permanent block will be enforced. The IP does not volunteer on WP as an admin and so the disproportionately out of line comments and threats of his should be ignored. --talk 05:19, 26 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Sounds good. We only hide extremely offensive revisions; milder ones stay in the edit history. Thanks again for bringing this to our attention! Cheers, m.o.p 05:31, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
Email
Jasper Deng (talk) 05:29, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
- Reading. talk) 06:00, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Bad Girls Club
- I've blocked Junebea for 2 days for disregarding warnings. m.o.p 20:30, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks for helping :) Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 21:06, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkback
- And again.Griswaldo (talk) 04:24, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
- And again ... but maybe the last. You can settle this question once and for all. See the talk page.Griswaldo (talk) 06:09, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'm sure I'm not alone in wanting to hear your replies to the last responses posed to you at that page. IMO, I don't know why you went down the road you did, but as far as I can tell you're blatantly misrepesenting facts about your own actions when people are brining concerns to you. You might think that since you closed the RfC the matter is settled, but it is not. You're actions have not made my life any more pleasant in the last few days vis-a-vis trying to deal with Anupam's disruption and I think you owe us all answers. So please revisit this thread and deal with the open questions. Thanks.Griswaldo (talk) 02:19, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
- I invite you to stop asking the same question again and again. This would be appreciated. Thanks, m.o.p 02:33, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Block question
- No, I just block obviously bad-faith accounts on sight. Advertising/spam accounts fall under that category. m.o.p 00:37, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Thanks
- Thank you. I've unlocked the article for whatever may come. If I'm needed again, feel free to let me know. Thanks for the kind words again, m.o.p 05:12, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
reminder
- We're still waiting to see if the user understands COI policy (per Ed's question). I'll prod the user and see if they'll answer. talk) 19:20, 30 September 2011 (UTC)]
Nextel logo deleted
- Mmm, good point. What's the link to the logo in question? m.o.p 01:33, 2 October 2011 (UTC)
Support of Sage City SymphonyYou deleted this page before I had a chance to go back in and add the stuff that you wanted to see, including the links within Wikipedia to important composers such as Lou Callabro (who started this orchestra and cites it in his Wikipedia page) and Susan Hurley whose work we premiered (SC is also mentioned in her Wikipedia entry). (Let alone links about the works we have performed.) And we have a web site at www.sagecitysymphony.org, have existed for over 35 yrs and are a significant cultural resource in the Bennington area such that we receive grants from local, statewide and national foundations.
I broke my wrist last weekend and am doing one-handed pecking so it'll take me a few days to get that loaded in. We are going out for a bit now, but I would appreciate your undeleting the page so that I don't have to re-invent the starting part when I go back in tomorrow to add links. Or delete it entirely so that I can start fresh - at this point either would work as long as I can start some serious work on it tomorrow. I am the webmaster by the way, so I do have access to content and more links.
Thank you, Celia Murray — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.228.127.119 (talk) 14:22, 1 October 2011 (UTC)
- It looks like fixed everything up. Best of luck, m.o.p 01:35, 2 October 2011 (UTC)]
Reply on Deterence's talk page
MA
After the beating you took you deserve a cold one--on me! Thanks for being fair and balanced – Lionel (talk) 03:55, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
- Hey, thanks! Glad to help out. :) m.o.p 03:56, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
Deletion of Mau5trap Recordings
--neocharles (talk) 07:33, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Existence does not equal notability - the subject has to be notable to get a Wikipedia page. m.o.p 12:05, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
Questoin re: AIV
- Addendum, actually, I read it very clearly in WP:VANDNOT: "Uploading or using material on Wikipedia in violation of Wikipedia's copyright policies is prohibited, but is not vandalism unless the user does so maliciously or fails to heed warnings." So if a person fails to heed warnings it is vandalism. My mistake here was that I only warned once. --Muhandes (talk) 12:29, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Eh, technically it is vandalism, but the user seems to be trying to improve the Wikipedia - that desire to help is misplaced in this case, as they seem to think that using copyrighted content is actually better. Weird. For most cases, yes, you should report copyvio to AIV - as long as they've been warned sufficiently. m.o.p 12:42, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- OK, he now did it again and the time stamp is after your last warning. Is it vandalism now? --Muhandes (talk) 12:32, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Yeah, if they're outright ignoring warnings. I've blocked for three days. m.o.p 12:40, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
Classmusic
- Oh, I know. But if somebody's lied to my face about using another account - and to other editors working on the article - I'm not about to let them go without a repercussion or two. I'd like Almost-instinct and Voceditnore to look over the article and fix up anything shifty. Also, I'd like Classmusic to respond to my warning, instead of blanking it and ignoring like they have to the above-named editors.
- So, in short, I know that COI doesn't bar editing, but it's enough of a concern that, given the user's recent behaviour, I'll stop them from doing anything until we've figured things out. This isn't too rouge-y, is it? I didn't hear that. Perhaps he is unaware of the sockpuppet investigation findings. Anyhow it seems that DeltaQuad has also blocked the Classmusic account. I left a note on his page about using the unblock template, but re-iterated that he needs to read the COI and Autobiography guidelines and stick to them scrupulously, if he gets unblocked. In the Opera and Classical Music WikiProjects, we get a lot of articles for performers, ensembles, etc. created by their agents and PR people, and often themselves. In my experience, the best I can hope for after one of these tussles is that they'll edit their article according to the guidelines in future. I have yet to find a single one who has ever contributed anything else to Wikipedia. Their only interest in the project is as a PR tool. Having said that, at least it results (after much red-pencilling from other editors) in one new article on a notable subject that we didn't have before and in a small way redresses the pop culture systemic bias here. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 13:40, 5 October 2011 (UTC)]
Danish election
- Never mind, it's been pulled by another admin. All the best, Jenks24 (talk) 11:03, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry about that! I was busy all day and didn't get your message until now. Thanks for letting me know, though! Cheers, m.o.p 19:51, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
3RRHey there! :)
Well WP:CRYSTAL has wined down, however, there's currently a
The Bad Girls Club (season 7). I have notified the two users [32], [33]. The evidence can be found here. They are having an edit-conflict on how the "Duration of cast" should be presented. Since there's no rules regarding anything like that, and it was made up about a year ago, I couldn't warned them to stop their e/c with anything except the 3RR rule. Maybe they need an admin to tell them to stop, so that's why I came to you :) Thanks, Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 01:17, 6 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Temporary page protection requested. Calabe1992 (talk) 01:29, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
I have to admit ...
- See the above section. The link is apparently a very subtle spam link that Calabe is removing, and socks are springing up to revert him. Swarm u / t 10:20, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
Moderation
- Alright, I'll make my way back. Thanks for letting me know! m.o.p 05:18, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
User:12.139.96.228
- To be honest, this case is perplexing. Half of this user's edits are constructive (mostly sourced), the other half aren't sourced - and the user won't reply to anybody. I'm also too busy to go through every edit and confirm whether or not it's good. I forgot about this for a while - I'll think about it tonight and figure something out for tomorrow. Thanks for reminding me! m.o.p 05:18, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
Whoops
- Whoops! Must not have been looking when I ran my block script. Thanks for letting me know, I've reblocked them for a far shorter (technically, an infinitely shorter) time. Cheers, m.o.p 22:58, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
Ashleyleggat404
- You're fully right in that the blanking policy covers indefinite blocks. I've removed the user's talk page rights as a result. Thanks again! m.o.p 00:28, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkback
Moderation
- If you look into this please consider whether Anupam's actions on the talk page and the entry itself are violations of WP:OWN. He's been driving off those he disagrees with by bludgening them to death with argument and heavily policing the entry claiming that there is a consensus written in stone despite many dissenting voices. Others have taken to simply calling him "the article's owner." I have had enough of this behavior personally and left him a message about it on his talk page. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:52, 20 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Dear User:Master of Puppets, the above user has misrepresented the occurrences at the article. I started another Introduction discussion at the article's talk page but User:Griswaldo has chosen to edit war over a second NPOV tag, despite the fact that one already exists in the article. He has done so despite the fact that the Introduction is being discussed in a peaceful manner at the talk page, in violation of your injunction: "We've only got consensus on this proposed versions (and loose consensus at that) - please do not attempt to subvert said consensus by making undiscussed changes." I have posted a message on his talk page about this behaviour. Nevertheless, I also do not wish to argue with the user personally and would prefer if you could go back to moderating the discussion between the two parties at the talk page. Thanks for taking the time to read this message. With regards, AnupamTalk 20:58, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- His "injunction?" Adding a neutrality tag to a specific sentence which an editor disputes the neutrality of is hardly "subverting the consensus by making undiscussed changes." Please stop wikilawyering to get your way. There is a growing consensus against your position regarding this article in general as well, despite your aggressive policing of the entry and the talk page. See ]
- I just thought that I would mention that User:Griswaldo, after seeing this message, just now decided to comment in the discussion rather than edit war against consensus further. Thanks for taking the time to read this message. With regards, AnupamTalk 21:51, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- "Edit war against consensus further?" My comment there has nothing to do with your message here. I've made three total edits to this entry ever. One was a copy edit in June, another was reverting an IP vandal, and the third was the revert of your Ownership edit. Please do not insinuate that I'm a edit warrior on this page. It is disingenuous.Griswaldo (talk) 22:08, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Thank you all for approaching me with your concerns.
- Obviously, I do not support Anupam - this is because I'm remaining a neutral third party, and, therefore, can't take sides. However, Griswaldo: please keep in mind that I did ask for all discussion to take place on the talk page. Why not just add your complaints to the talk page? It would have been much easier to discuss.
- I do agree that adding a NPOV tag, while slightly redundant, isn't horrible, but your intent seems to have been to stir discussion on that particular section, discussion that would be much more appropriate on the talk page.
- As for your and Snalwibma's concerns of Anupam trying to 'own' the article, I'm curious as to what you two mean; what 'delusions'?
- Also, Griswaldo, I don't think Anupam meant to insinuate you are an edit warrior (though this is just my take) - rather, they wanted to add the note that you've weighed in on discussion. m.o.p 22:10, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- your intent seems to have been to stir discussion on that particular section - No that's incorrect. I didn't add this tag, I simply reverted Anupam's attempt to own the page when he removed it. I agreed with JimWae's addition of the tag and found Anupam's removal to be unwarranted and a display of ownership.Griswaldo (talk) 22:16, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Note that, for all intents and purposes, reverting somebody is adding whatever is included in your edit, regardless of who put it there first. You revert a removal, you're agreeing with the edition you're reverting to - simple.
- And, if you agreed with JimWae, then we go back to what I was saying earlier - say so on the talk page. Two of you agree? Great! That's closer to consensus. But it means nothing if you express your support by reverting removals.
- Again, as I've asked multiple times, please stop saying that Anupam is owning anything without giving me evidence of it first. m.o.p 22:22, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Dear User:Master of Puppets, thank you for your reply to all of us. The reason User:Snalwibma stated that I was attempting to "own" the article was because I reverted an undiscussed removal from the article, which not only myself, but two other users objected to. In fact, two anonymous IP Addresses also reverted User:Snalwibma. I was open to compromise on the issue and stated that I would accept User:Turnsalso's compromise on the issue. I kindly request you to look at that discussion yourself and get an honest reading of it. Also, the only reason I removed the second NPOV tag was because there was already one present, which I did not remove. I only reverted the addition of a second NPOV tag once and even explained myself on the talk page. When I went to the talk page, I found rude accusations and an anti-collaborative spirit, despite the fact that I have been nothing but polite. I hope this helps. With regards, AnupamTalk 22:25, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry - I know I should not rise to the bait, but I have to object to the comment "The reason User:Snalwibma stated that I was attempting to 'own' the article was because I reverted an undiscussed removal ..." How dare Anupam presume to know what is in my mind! The reason I describe Anupam's attitude to the article as one of ownership is because that is how s/he behaves - "policing" every edit, pronouncing on whether s/he "accepts" or "rejects" it, peremptorily reverting anything s/he does not like, without discussion, presuming to know others' motives, and judging them as fit/unfit to contribute to the article. This has been going on for weeks, if not months. It is impossible to discuss the content of the article, let alone improve the text, because everything is filtered through the approval/disapproval of the article's self-appointed guardian, Anupam. tendentious or disruptive when they bring up certain issues, even when they are clearly in the majority. That is not collaborative. I stopped editing the article heavily because of those issues. I don't have any delusions that my opinion is worth more than anyone else's here, but I would think that the large number of established, experienced editors who are all saying there's a problem, would indicate something. — Jess· Δ♥ 19:45, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
Please reconsider your full protection of Militant atheist
- In case you didn't notice, I asked that people think twice about pointing fingers at each other. If you'd like to start a sockpuppetry investigation, let me know, and we can take that avenue - however, don't accuse other editors of ownership without substance. If you think Anupam is trying to own things, give me something. Diffs, edits, anything. I'll check it out for you, but right now, baseless accusations are not what I'm looking for.
- Also, notice that I protected the article with your edit being the last one. How is that validating the very person you've been reverting?
- The protection will stay until consensus is reached. m.o.p 22:19, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Because protection is what he wants quite clearly. He's stalling conversation and shouting down people on the talk page, where, if you have a look, you'll see he's clearly in the minority. Because of your "injunction" as he calls it, he also claims that no matter how many people agree with a certain change it is illegitimate. I'll be happy to gather some diffs, but my first message to you above was to please look into the situation carefully before acting on it. Did you do that and come to the conclusion that I'm wrong or did you not head that request? Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:29, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Yes, I did heed your request. I don't see any ownership behaviour from Anupam, though, being involved in multiple disputes, I didn't have the time to read every last word on the page, so you're free to provide evidence. However, from what I can see, Anupam's last proposal was supported by the majority - not to count (and I don't mean to imply that I decide where consensus lies by looking at pure numbers), but from looking at pure supports versus opposes, eight people (nine including Anupam) support while four oppose. How does that make Anupam's views a minority? m.o.p 22:37, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- It depends on what view you are talking about. The current RFC on the introduction is something that most people don't even want to engage because most people think this very entry should be split up and integrated into other entries. I reluctantly engaged the RfC just now myself. The last time the more serious question about the entry was asked, several of the new commentators were not around, and there was "no consensus" found because the opposing side was chalk full of SPAs and editors with a view that is outright hostile to atheism (which is a legitimate view to hold, but it is a minority view). Let me find you some diffs.Griswaldo (talk) 22:43, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- User:Griswaldo, that is exactly the issue: you do not want to collaborate with other users on the talk page, which is why you were reluctant to participate in the current RfC. Moreover, there were several SPA's on the side of the opposition as well, including WP:NPOV. In addition, the split was again recently discussed and the specific case to do so was refuted by several editors. As such, there was no consensus for it. I hope this helps. With regards, AnupamTalk 22:52, 20 September 2011 (UTC)]
- No. You are trying to write an article that violates WP:SYNTH because it conflates New Atheism with oppressive communist regimes and their histories of violence. That's hardly NPOV. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:59, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
Hi m.o.p., as someone who occasionally looks at that page (and then washes my hands), I just want to compliment you as having done the right thing in full protecting. By way of unsolicited advice to the involved editors, the best thing they could do is to allow The Wrong Version to sit there a good long time, and devote their energy to other things. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:54, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
]
Yes, please reconsider your full protection of
WP:RS—deserve protection against misinformed reverts. Thanks Geremia (talk) 16:12, 22 September 2011 (UTC)]
Diffs of
- I'm not really sure where the ownership is here; nowhere in our policies is it stated that a user can't promote their RFC on the subject talk page. If it's ongoing and they'd like to move it to the forefront, what's wrong with that? More so, some of your summaries seem inaccurate - in that last diff, you state that Anupam is removing images, yet I only see Anupam adding an image (the peace dove that's at the top of the page). Also, you use repeating examples. m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Well clearly the last diff was wrong. Thanks for the vote of confidence. There are no repeat examples nor inaccurate summaries, just a mistaken copy paste of the second to last diff to the last position as well. I have fixed it. Cheers.
- Using "consensus claims from one RfC to reject changes made to article content
- Same as above. Using the "consensus" bludgeon to get his way. Please note that clearly we ought to edit by consensus, but this consensus is highly disputed, and IMO not there in the first place. The real problem is the way in which Anupam decides to use it like a trump card to remove changes he doesn't like. Ask yourself if all changes post "consensus" have been removed or just the ones Anupam decided he wanted removed.
Master of Puppets do you need more diffs or is this enough?Griswaldo (talk) 23:31, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Well I need more diffs because your "evidence" so far looks like a desperate attempt to incriminate an editor who has been very successful in persuading his colleagues to adopt his proposals. Anupam has presented his proposals, argued the merits and persuaded many editors. Anything you want to tell us about why you're having difficulty doing likewise? – Lionel (talk) 06:02, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- I don't see this is as conclusive evidence, either. And, it should be said - if people are editing against established consensus, then people are free to re-evaluate consensus, but edit-warring against it doesn't make much sense. m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- If not ownership then what is this - [28], [29], [30]? He removes two RfCs started by another editor, and revolving around the question that many of us actually find to be the fundamental question to answer regarding the entry. Then he edit wars to keep these RfCs off the page, claiming again to have some sort of authority stemming from your prior actions. If you aren't willing to do something here I'm going to another administrator and I'm going to ask for your initial "consensus," your strong arm administrating, and your lack of action here to be reviewed as well. Thanks.Griswaldo (talk) 17:08, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Anupam has already apologized for reverting those RfC additions, and we've moved past it. He also didn't claim to have administrative authority, but was waiting for my approval. We've cleared this up, it's not an issue. So no, I'm not going to take any action (as I've said here and on ANI). Now, if you'd like to threaten me and tell me that, since I'm not cooperating with your wills, you'll go to another administrator, that's fine - as I've said, you can seek outside opinions - but remember to keep a cool head, because borderline threats are not appreciated. m.o.p 21:49, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- It was not a threat, "borderline" or otherwise. You are conveniently ignoring a growing number of voices who are all saying the same thing - there is an ownership problem here. The deletion issue has not been "cleared up" as far as I'm concerned. Whenever it is mentioned Anupam insists that he did not "unilaterally" delete the RfCs from the page, which is a blatant distortion, since that is exactly what he did. He continues to act as a policeman at the page, and yes he does continue to cite your authority. Did you bother to read the many diffs I posted above in the second two sections? I will quote three random examples from those I provided for you if you want.
- When he first deleted the two RfCs he wrote: "rv - see discussion with reviewing administrator; approval needed to start another RfC while one is already occurring."
- When he deleted a fact tag that JimWae put into the lede: "rv excessive tagging per talk; tag is already extant in header; do not subvert previous consensus but gain consensus for potential additions per administrative notice"
- When he rejected another recent change to the entry: "accepted edits by User:Jkhwiki; rv removal of longstanding referenced content - see discussion on talk page and gain consensus for action per administrative injunction"
- In talk page comments and in edit summaries he consistently does the same thing. He refers to your authority, either directly or indirectly through your "notice" or your "injunction" as he likes to call it. I never said the claimed to have administrative authority, I said that he's using your authority, by way of your comments, such as the closure of the AfD to bully people. Do you deny that he citing your comments, because if you do then I must have fabricated those quotes. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:32, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
If you say "If you don't do A, then I'm going to go and do B", that's a threat. Anyway, that's not the issue - we've already covered all the issues with the RfC reverting, and Anupam won't do it again. Why keep raising hell over it?
We've already covered everything you bring up. And no, I'm not denying anything. I'm just saying this, and it's very simple: I don't think there has been any blatant ownership here. That's my judgment. If you disagree, again, feel free to raise this with another administrator or on ANI. m.o.p 23:12, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Regarding the new RFC, I still think there has not passed yet too much time since the last discussion about splitting the article. As far as I knew, repeating these sorts of debates (like splitting, deleting, renaming) before a larger amount of time has passed (like 6 months) is usually discouraged. And as others have also argued earlier, even if having multiple RFCs is possible, it's not very useful, and the new RFC seems to discourage further discussion about improving the lead introduction. So preventing multiple RFCs (and also a RFC about an issue debated not too long ago) does not look to me like evidence of bad faith intentions. Cody7777777 (talk) 21:37, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Cody, would you mind linking me to the previous RfC on splitting? m.o.p 21:49, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- The previous attempt to split the article can be found here. Cody7777777 (talk) 21:55, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Response
Yes, it does. Thanks, m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Dear User:Master of Puppets, I just noticed that User:Binksternet started another RfC while a current one is occurring. Is this appropriate? I reverted the addition motioning for one until your response is confirmed. If it is acceptable, then I apologize and will revert my edit. I look forward to your response. With regards, AnupamTalk 15:14, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'll form my reply on ANI. m.o.p 17:12, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- When you do please take into account my comment just above, regarding Anupam's edit warring to remove talk page comments (namely these RfCs) posted by others on the talk page. If you still don't think this is WP:OWN then clearly other administrators are needed here.Griswaldo (talk) 17:15, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Dear User:Griswaldo, how is going to a neutral mediator to address the issue owning the article? I acknowledge that the article is in dispute and as a result, I am asking an administrator for advice in this matter, NOT handling things on my own, as you have done by edit warring. Your WP:OWN allegations have not only been dismissed by this administrator, but by several other users, including, User:Lionelt, User:Cody7777777 and User:NYyankees51. Thanks, AnupamTalk 17:27, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- In reply to Griswaldo: reverting the RfCs was a mistake, but we've cleared that up now. As Anupam has stated at ANI, the intent was not to discourage discussion. If you think my judgment is compromised, you're welcome to seek another administrator's input. m.o.p 21:04, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- And as further evidence of WP:OWN, see this. Anupam adds a comment to everything that anyone else says, as if he/she is the owner of the article and everyone else is a subordinate contributor. This particular instance is pretty benign (although it clutters up the talk page with an unnecessary comment that merely says "I agree"), but I do think that Anupam at least needs to learn how to avoid giving the appearance of thinking he/she owns the article, and to desist from chipping in and saying the same thing over and over again, which almost makes meaningful discussion impossible! SNALWIBMA ( talk - contribs ) 17:31, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- While the input is appreciated, as I've said before, making allegations of ownership without hard evidence isn't going to get us anywhere. Anupam is not stopping others from discussing changes or forming consensus, and that's all that matters - refactoring the talk page or commenting on an issue is not against policy, and I'm not going to tell someone to stop editing because it "looks" like they're doing something wrong. As said above, you're welcome to request another administrator's insight if you wish. m.o.p 21:04, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
COIHi
you've helped me out before, with a conflict of interest problem, so having much more experience than me on wikipedia, I thought I would be bold enough to ask again for help.
Similar problem to last, User_talk:Hobbycraft is editing the HOBBYCRAFT article and making changes that aren't citably right. I think the user name suggest and history suggests a conflict of interest case.
Can you please, speak to them addressing this issue.
Thank you very much for your help.
Markcoulter50 (talk) 22:27, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
- I've blocked that user for username violations. Thanks a lot for letting me know! Keep up the great work, m.o.p 23:00, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkbackcausa sui (talk) 18:47, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Hello. You have a new message at causa sui's talk page. causa sui (talk) 20:54, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Problematic editing on militant atheism
- I hope it's not considered defamatory to repeat the final line: "I merely present the diffs above, and let others draw their own conclusions. Is this a duck? Does it quack? You decide.". Unfortunately, the concerned community no longer has that opportunity. What did you decide on their behalf? Does this duck quack, or not? bobrayner (talk) 15:42, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- It's not your wording, it's the very idea of it. Going to what's allegorically a public place and shouting, "Hey, everybody, this man is a criminal!" is one step below blatantly forming a lynch mob. As I've said, I have no problem with your wording or evidence, just your location of choice. Wikipedia is not, unfortunately, a democracy - letting others draw their conclusions and voice their opinions is not how a sockpuppet investigation works.
- So yes, please don't go restoring any of that section. We're not discussing editors, we're discussing the content they produce. Anything else has a sub-board to deal with it (like WP:SPI).
- Hopefully that clears things up! I'll be happy to answer any more questions should you have them. Cheers, m.o.p 15:48, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Hello User:Bobrayner, I noticed the section you created on the militant atheism talk page. If you do feel the way you do about User:Turnsalso and the anonymous IP Addresses, you can take this up with WP:SPI. Thanks, AnupamTalk 15:52, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
Are you kidding my MoP? Above your write: Going to what's allegorically a public place and shouting, "Hey, everybody, this man is a criminal!" is one step below blatantly forming a lynch mob. AND We're not discussing editors, we're discussing the content they produce. Yet you call this edit by Lionelt "good faith," at WQA? MoP, I would not ask you to agree with me or to like me, but can I please ask you not to insult me with these double standards.Griswaldo (talk) 16:18, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
]
- Griswaldo, I mean no offense when I say this, but I'd appreciate it if you stayed out of discussions which didn't involve you. Also, please don't put words in my mouth. Thanks, m.o.p 16:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I have not put words in your mouth. You said that you would assume good faith about Lionel. If you "assume good faith" it means you assume his edits were in "good faith." If you did not intend that meaning I suggest you reconsider what you wrote. Also, if you want me to "stay out of discussion which don't involve me" then I suggest your first order of business should be to do the same thing yourself. You decided to post at WQA, when there was no mention of you or anything you've done in that thread. Once again, I expect people not to practice double standards. So as long as you cannot show me that you will treat me as you ask to be treated yourself, I will not oblige you. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:21, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Please stop bickering. I'm not quite sure what you're trying to accomplish here. I've already explained what I meant when I said assuming good faith, but I'll explain again: I assumed that Lionelt was not hounding or deliberately haranguing you. I did not say, at any point, that his edit content was good faith, and I've told him not to edit like that again. So please stop accusing me of saying things I haven't said.
- Also, I posted in WQA because, as a mediator in this case and as an administrator, it's my duty to weigh in on administrative noticeboards, especially when the case is an ongoing discussion I've been participating in for three months. It is not your duty to weigh in on discussions on my talk page that don't concern you. I hope the distinction is clear here. m.o.p 20:33, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I think you are confused about something. Content is never good faith. "Editing in good faith" and "good faith edits" refers to the intent of the editor always. It has nothing to do with content. My assumption that you also felt the edits were appropriate comes from the fact that you did not say they weren't appropriate and clearly feel that his intentions were good. If you'd like to set the record straight on that issue you still can. I've asked you twice now to discuss the actual edits that are the focal point of the thread. Also, I moved the thread to ANI, per the suggestion of the editor who marked it "resolved."Griswaldo (talk) 20:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- See Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#User:Lionelt_--_following_my_past_edits_to_drum_up_support_against_me. FYI, I copy pasted the entire discussion because both you and Collect were critical of my initial post and I thought it was the right thing to do to preserve that criticism in the record of the conversation. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:43, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- In reply to your first paragraph: I'm going to give up now, as it seems you're misunderstanding most of what I type, but you're the one who stated that the content was not good faith (as you said, not appropriate), and I agreed - I referred to his intent in replying to you, and said that I assumed good faith in his motives, not his replies. I can't really say that in a clearer way, so my apologies if it's hard to understand. Also, as I've already said, I've left a message for Lionelt about his edits, so clearly I do not feel they're appropriate. m.o.p 20:57, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I, too, find these double standards vexing.
- Which diff is defamatory?
- I had hitherto thought that people on the article talkpage might like to be aware of potential problems with votestacking on the article talkpage (and 3rr evasion, of course). Would it be permitted to add a link to that list of diffs when it's in a different place, or would you consider that defamatory too? bobrayner (talk) 16:23, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- As I said, the information is not defamatory, but the way it's presented is - we have specific processes available to pursue should one feel there are sockpuppets about. However, calling someone out with the intent of informing the community is overstepping your authority and damaging to the accused's character. Also, there's no way a community discussion about whether or not one editor is a sockpuppet can end in anything other than a sockpuppet investigation anyway.
- So, in closing, please don't bring issues like this to the talk page. If you're concerned about votestacking, take it to the appropriate venue - if your concerns are validated, we'll take measures against said puppets. Cheers, m.o.p 16:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I am very disappointed that it's no longer permissible to raise problems with article-editing on the article talkpage. Previous concerns about sockpuppetry were simply ignored; the difference this time is that it's backed by lots of diffs.
- I'm fairly confident that the people concerned have sufficient technical nous to make checkuser draw a blank. And, let's be entirely honest, within minutes of me creating an SPI, an admin of the right persuasion will be getting an email suggesting that an SPI needs their attention. And SPI does not see offsite coordination by a facebook group &c. Finally, any null result at SPI will be used at the article in much the same way as previous administrative decisions have been. So, I do not believe that an SPI will improve either the article, or the encyclopædia as a whole. bobrayner (talk) 17:08, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- If you don't think the pre-existing methods set in place for situations like this are sufficient, you can always raise that concern at the village pump or suggest a policy revision - however, SPI is the venue for these requests, and the only venue. The talk page can not substitute. m.o.p 17:10, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
76.228.226.122Thank you for blocking the anonymous user, who is being counterproductive and rude. (although I think the block should have been one week, but I guess ok at least)
Can you also please try to hide the edit summaries of these edits if possible?
This and
this
Thanks and regards, talk 05:04, 26 September 2011 (UTC)]
- I'll extend the block if this behaviour continues after the block period is over.
- As for the edit summaries, those don't warrant hiding - I apologize for their content, but they don't meet the criteria of what I should remove. It's best just to ignore them for now. Cheers, m.o.p 05:13, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
- Okay, good to know, if I did nothing wrong, no permanent block will be enforced. The IP does not volunteer on WP as an admin and so the disproportionately out of line comments and threats of his should be ignored. --talk 05:19, 26 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Sounds good. We only hide extremely offensive revisions; milder ones stay in the edit history. Thanks again for bringing this to our attention! Cheers, m.o.p 05:31, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
Email
Jasper Deng (talk) 05:29, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
- Reading. talk) 06:00, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Bad Girls Club
- I've blocked Junebea for 2 days for disregarding warnings. m.o.p 20:30, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks for helping :) Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 21:06, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkback
- And again.Griswaldo (talk) 04:24, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
- And again ... but maybe the last. You can settle this question once and for all. See the talk page.Griswaldo (talk) 06:09, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'm sure I'm not alone in wanting to hear your replies to the last responses posed to you at that page. IMO, I don't know why you went down the road you did, but as far as I can tell you're blatantly misrepesenting facts about your own actions when people are brining concerns to you. You might think that since you closed the RfC the matter is settled, but it is not. You're actions have not made my life any more pleasant in the last few days vis-a-vis trying to deal with Anupam's disruption and I think you owe us all answers. So please revisit this thread and deal with the open questions. Thanks.Griswaldo (talk) 02:19, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
- I invite you to stop asking the same question again and again. This would be appreciated. Thanks, m.o.p 02:33, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Block question
- No, I just block obviously bad-faith accounts on sight. Advertising/spam accounts fall under that category. m.o.p 00:37, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Thanks
- Thank you. I've unlocked the article for whatever may come. If I'm needed again, feel free to let me know. Thanks for the kind words again, m.o.p 05:12, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
reminder
- We're still waiting to see if the user understands COI policy (per Ed's question). I'll prod the user and see if they'll answer. talk) 19:20, 30 September 2011 (UTC)]
Nextel logo deleted
- Mmm, good point. What's the link to the logo in question? m.o.p 01:33, 2 October 2011 (UTC)
Support of Sage City SymphonyYou deleted this page before I had a chance to go back in and add the stuff that you wanted to see, including the links within Wikipedia to important composers such as Lou Callabro (who started this orchestra and cites it in his Wikipedia page) and Susan Hurley whose work we premiered (SC is also mentioned in her Wikipedia entry). (Let alone links about the works we have performed.) And we have a web site at www.sagecitysymphony.org, have existed for over 35 yrs and are a significant cultural resource in the Bennington area such that we receive grants from local, statewide and national foundations.
I broke my wrist last weekend and am doing one-handed pecking so it'll take me a few days to get that loaded in. We are going out for a bit now, but I would appreciate your undeleting the page so that I don't have to re-invent the starting part when I go back in tomorrow to add links. Or delete it entirely so that I can start fresh - at this point either would work as long as I can start some serious work on it tomorrow. I am the webmaster by the way, so I do have access to content and more links.
Thank you, Celia Murray — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.228.127.119 (talk) 14:22, 1 October 2011 (UTC)
- It looks like fixed everything up. Best of luck, m.o.p 01:35, 2 October 2011 (UTC)]
Reply on Deterence's talk page
MA
After the beating you took you deserve a cold one--on me! Thanks for being fair and balanced – Lionel (talk) 03:55, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
- Hey, thanks! Glad to help out. :) m.o.p 03:56, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
Deletion of Mau5trap Recordings
--neocharles (talk) 07:33, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Existence does not equal notability - the subject has to be notable to get a Wikipedia page. m.o.p 12:05, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
Questoin re: AIV
- Addendum, actually, I read it very clearly in WP:VANDNOT: "Uploading or using material on Wikipedia in violation of Wikipedia's copyright policies is prohibited, but is not vandalism unless the user does so maliciously or fails to heed warnings." So if a person fails to heed warnings it is vandalism. My mistake here was that I only warned once. --Muhandes (talk) 12:29, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Eh, technically it is vandalism, but the user seems to be trying to improve the Wikipedia - that desire to help is misplaced in this case, as they seem to think that using copyrighted content is actually better. Weird. For most cases, yes, you should report copyvio to AIV - as long as they've been warned sufficiently. m.o.p 12:42, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- OK, he now did it again and the time stamp is after your last warning. Is it vandalism now? --Muhandes (talk) 12:32, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Yeah, if they're outright ignoring warnings. I've blocked for three days. m.o.p 12:40, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
Classmusic
- Oh, I know. But if somebody's lied to my face about using another account - and to other editors working on the article - I'm not about to let them go without a repercussion or two. I'd like Almost-instinct and Voceditnore to look over the article and fix up anything shifty. Also, I'd like Classmusic to respond to my warning, instead of blanking it and ignoring like they have to the above-named editors.
- So, in short, I know that COI doesn't bar editing, but it's enough of a concern that, given the user's recent behaviour, I'll stop them from doing anything until we've figured things out. This isn't too rouge-y, is it? I didn't hear that. Perhaps he is unaware of the sockpuppet investigation findings. Anyhow it seems that DeltaQuad has also blocked the Classmusic account. I left a note on his page about using the unblock template, but re-iterated that he needs to read the COI and Autobiography guidelines and stick to them scrupulously, if he gets unblocked. In the Opera and Classical Music WikiProjects, we get a lot of articles for performers, ensembles, etc. created by their agents and PR people, and often themselves. In my experience, the best I can hope for after one of these tussles is that they'll edit their article according to the guidelines in future. I have yet to find a single one who has ever contributed anything else to Wikipedia. Their only interest in the project is as a PR tool. Having said that, at least it results (after much red-pencilling from other editors) in one new article on a notable subject that we didn't have before and in a small way redresses the pop culture systemic bias here. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 13:40, 5 October 2011 (UTC)]
Danish election
- Never mind, it's been pulled by another admin. All the best, Jenks24 (talk) 11:03, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry about that! I was busy all day and didn't get your message until now. Thanks for letting me know, though! Cheers, m.o.p 19:51, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
3RRHey there! :)
Well WP:CRYSTAL has wined down, however, there's currently a
The Bad Girls Club (season 7). I have notified the two users [32], [33]. The evidence can be found here. They are having an edit-conflict on how the "Duration of cast" should be presented. Since there's no rules regarding anything like that, and it was made up about a year ago, I couldn't warned them to stop their e/c with anything except the 3RR rule. Maybe they need an admin to tell them to stop, so that's why I came to you :) Thanks, Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 01:17, 6 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Temporary page protection requested. Calabe1992 (talk) 01:29, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
Moderation
- Alright, I'll make my way back. Thanks for letting me know! m.o.p 05:18, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
User:12.139.96.228
- To be honest, this case is perplexing. Half of this user's edits are constructive (mostly sourced), the other half aren't sourced - and the user won't reply to anybody. I'm also too busy to go through every edit and confirm whether or not it's good. I forgot about this for a while - I'll think about it tonight and figure something out for tomorrow. Thanks for reminding me! m.o.p 05:18, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
Whoops
- Whoops! Must not have been looking when I ran my block script. Thanks for letting me know, I've reblocked them for a far shorter (technically, an infinitely shorter) time. Cheers, m.o.p 22:58, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
Ashleyleggat404
- You're fully right in that the blanking policy covers indefinite blocks. I've removed the user's talk page rights as a result. Thanks again! m.o.p 00:28, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkback
Moderation
- If you look into this please consider whether Anupam's actions on the talk page and the entry itself are violations of WP:OWN. He's been driving off those he disagrees with by bludgening them to death with argument and heavily policing the entry claiming that there is a consensus written in stone despite many dissenting voices. Others have taken to simply calling him "the article's owner." I have had enough of this behavior personally and left him a message about it on his talk page. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:52, 20 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Dear User:Master of Puppets, the above user has misrepresented the occurrences at the article. I started another Introduction discussion at the article's talk page but User:Griswaldo has chosen to edit war over a second NPOV tag, despite the fact that one already exists in the article. He has done so despite the fact that the Introduction is being discussed in a peaceful manner at the talk page, in violation of your injunction: "We've only got consensus on this proposed versions (and loose consensus at that) - please do not attempt to subvert said consensus by making undiscussed changes." I have posted a message on his talk page about this behaviour. Nevertheless, I also do not wish to argue with the user personally and would prefer if you could go back to moderating the discussion between the two parties at the talk page. Thanks for taking the time to read this message. With regards, AnupamTalk 20:58, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- His "injunction?" Adding a neutrality tag to a specific sentence which an editor disputes the neutrality of is hardly "subverting the consensus by making undiscussed changes." Please stop wikilawyering to get your way. There is a growing consensus against your position regarding this article in general as well, despite your aggressive policing of the entry and the talk page. See ]
- I just thought that I would mention that User:Griswaldo, after seeing this message, just now decided to comment in the discussion rather than edit war against consensus further. Thanks for taking the time to read this message. With regards, AnupamTalk 21:51, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- "Edit war against consensus further?" My comment there has nothing to do with your message here. I've made three total edits to this entry ever. One was a copy edit in June, another was reverting an IP vandal, and the third was the revert of your Ownership edit. Please do not insinuate that I'm a edit warrior on this page. It is disingenuous.Griswaldo (talk) 22:08, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Thank you all for approaching me with your concerns.
- Obviously, I do not support Anupam - this is because I'm remaining a neutral third party, and, therefore, can't take sides. However, Griswaldo: please keep in mind that I did ask for all discussion to take place on the talk page. Why not just add your complaints to the talk page? It would have been much easier to discuss.
- I do agree that adding a NPOV tag, while slightly redundant, isn't horrible, but your intent seems to have been to stir discussion on that particular section, discussion that would be much more appropriate on the talk page.
- As for your and Snalwibma's concerns of Anupam trying to 'own' the article, I'm curious as to what you two mean; what 'delusions'?
- Also, Griswaldo, I don't think Anupam meant to insinuate you are an edit warrior (though this is just my take) - rather, they wanted to add the note that you've weighed in on discussion. m.o.p 22:10, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- your intent seems to have been to stir discussion on that particular section - No that's incorrect. I didn't add this tag, I simply reverted Anupam's attempt to own the page when he removed it. I agreed with JimWae's addition of the tag and found Anupam's removal to be unwarranted and a display of ownership.Griswaldo (talk) 22:16, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Note that, for all intents and purposes, reverting somebody is adding whatever is included in your edit, regardless of who put it there first. You revert a removal, you're agreeing with the edition you're reverting to - simple.
- And, if you agreed with JimWae, then we go back to what I was saying earlier - say so on the talk page. Two of you agree? Great! That's closer to consensus. But it means nothing if you express your support by reverting removals.
- Again, as I've asked multiple times, please stop saying that Anupam is owning anything without giving me evidence of it first. m.o.p 22:22, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Dear User:Master of Puppets, thank you for your reply to all of us. The reason User:Snalwibma stated that I was attempting to "own" the article was because I reverted an undiscussed removal from the article, which not only myself, but two other users objected to. In fact, two anonymous IP Addresses also reverted User:Snalwibma. I was open to compromise on the issue and stated that I would accept User:Turnsalso's compromise on the issue. I kindly request you to look at that discussion yourself and get an honest reading of it. Also, the only reason I removed the second NPOV tag was because there was already one present, which I did not remove. I only reverted the addition of a second NPOV tag once and even explained myself on the talk page. When I went to the talk page, I found rude accusations and an anti-collaborative spirit, despite the fact that I have been nothing but polite. I hope this helps. With regards, AnupamTalk 22:25, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry - I know I should not rise to the bait, but I have to object to the comment "The reason User:Snalwibma stated that I was attempting to 'own' the article was because I reverted an undiscussed removal ..." How dare Anupam presume to know what is in my mind! The reason I describe Anupam's attitude to the article as one of ownership is because that is how s/he behaves - "policing" every edit, pronouncing on whether s/he "accepts" or "rejects" it, peremptorily reverting anything s/he does not like, without discussion, presuming to know others' motives, and judging them as fit/unfit to contribute to the article. This has been going on for weeks, if not months. It is impossible to discuss the content of the article, let alone improve the text, because everything is filtered through the approval/disapproval of the article's self-appointed guardian, Anupam. tendentious or disruptive when they bring up certain issues, even when they are clearly in the majority. That is not collaborative. I stopped editing the article heavily because of those issues. I don't have any delusions that my opinion is worth more than anyone else's here, but I would think that the large number of established, experienced editors who are all saying there's a problem, would indicate something. — Jess· Δ♥ 19:45, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
Please reconsider your full protection of Militant atheist
- In case you didn't notice, I asked that people think twice about pointing fingers at each other. If you'd like to start a sockpuppetry investigation, let me know, and we can take that avenue - however, don't accuse other editors of ownership without substance. If you think Anupam is trying to own things, give me something. Diffs, edits, anything. I'll check it out for you, but right now, baseless accusations are not what I'm looking for.
- Also, notice that I protected the article with your edit being the last one. How is that validating the very person you've been reverting?
- The protection will stay until consensus is reached. m.o.p 22:19, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Because protection is what he wants quite clearly. He's stalling conversation and shouting down people on the talk page, where, if you have a look, you'll see he's clearly in the minority. Because of your "injunction" as he calls it, he also claims that no matter how many people agree with a certain change it is illegitimate. I'll be happy to gather some diffs, but my first message to you above was to please look into the situation carefully before acting on it. Did you do that and come to the conclusion that I'm wrong or did you not head that request? Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:29, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Yes, I did heed your request. I don't see any ownership behaviour from Anupam, though, being involved in multiple disputes, I didn't have the time to read every last word on the page, so you're free to provide evidence. However, from what I can see, Anupam's last proposal was supported by the majority - not to count (and I don't mean to imply that I decide where consensus lies by looking at pure numbers), but from looking at pure supports versus opposes, eight people (nine including Anupam) support while four oppose. How does that make Anupam's views a minority? m.o.p 22:37, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- It depends on what view you are talking about. The current RFC on the introduction is something that most people don't even want to engage because most people think this very entry should be split up and integrated into other entries. I reluctantly engaged the RfC just now myself. The last time the more serious question about the entry was asked, several of the new commentators were not around, and there was "no consensus" found because the opposing side was chalk full of SPAs and editors with a view that is outright hostile to atheism (which is a legitimate view to hold, but it is a minority view). Let me find you some diffs.Griswaldo (talk) 22:43, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- User:Griswaldo, that is exactly the issue: you do not want to collaborate with other users on the talk page, which is why you were reluctant to participate in the current RfC. Moreover, there were several SPA's on the side of the opposition as well, including WP:NPOV. In addition, the split was again recently discussed and the specific case to do so was refuted by several editors. As such, there was no consensus for it. I hope this helps. With regards, AnupamTalk 22:52, 20 September 2011 (UTC)]
- No. You are trying to write an article that violates WP:SYNTH because it conflates New Atheism with oppressive communist regimes and their histories of violence. That's hardly NPOV. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:59, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
Hi m.o.p., as someone who occasionally looks at that page (and then washes my hands), I just want to compliment you as having done the right thing in full protecting. By way of unsolicited advice to the involved editors, the best thing they could do is to allow The Wrong Version to sit there a good long time, and devote their energy to other things. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:54, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
]
Yes, please reconsider your full protection of
WP:RS—deserve protection against misinformed reverts. Thanks Geremia (talk) 16:12, 22 September 2011 (UTC)]
Diffs of
- I'm not really sure where the ownership is here; nowhere in our policies is it stated that a user can't promote their RFC on the subject talk page. If it's ongoing and they'd like to move it to the forefront, what's wrong with that? More so, some of your summaries seem inaccurate - in that last diff, you state that Anupam is removing images, yet I only see Anupam adding an image (the peace dove that's at the top of the page). Also, you use repeating examples. m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Well clearly the last diff was wrong. Thanks for the vote of confidence. There are no repeat examples nor inaccurate summaries, just a mistaken copy paste of the second to last diff to the last position as well. I have fixed it. Cheers.
- Using "consensus claims from one RfC to reject changes made to article content
- Same as above. Using the "consensus" bludgeon to get his way. Please note that clearly we ought to edit by consensus, but this consensus is highly disputed, and IMO not there in the first place. The real problem is the way in which Anupam decides to use it like a trump card to remove changes he doesn't like. Ask yourself if all changes post "consensus" have been removed or just the ones Anupam decided he wanted removed.
Master of Puppets do you need more diffs or is this enough?Griswaldo (talk) 23:31, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Well I need more diffs because your "evidence" so far looks like a desperate attempt to incriminate an editor who has been very successful in persuading his colleagues to adopt his proposals. Anupam has presented his proposals, argued the merits and persuaded many editors. Anything you want to tell us about why you're having difficulty doing likewise? – Lionel (talk) 06:02, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- I don't see this is as conclusive evidence, either. And, it should be said - if people are editing against established consensus, then people are free to re-evaluate consensus, but edit-warring against it doesn't make much sense. m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- If not ownership then what is this - [28], [29], [30]? He removes two RfCs started by another editor, and revolving around the question that many of us actually find to be the fundamental question to answer regarding the entry. Then he edit wars to keep these RfCs off the page, claiming again to have some sort of authority stemming from your prior actions. If you aren't willing to do something here I'm going to another administrator and I'm going to ask for your initial "consensus," your strong arm administrating, and your lack of action here to be reviewed as well. Thanks.Griswaldo (talk) 17:08, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Anupam has already apologized for reverting those RfC additions, and we've moved past it. He also didn't claim to have administrative authority, but was waiting for my approval. We've cleared this up, it's not an issue. So no, I'm not going to take any action (as I've said here and on ANI). Now, if you'd like to threaten me and tell me that, since I'm not cooperating with your wills, you'll go to another administrator, that's fine - as I've said, you can seek outside opinions - but remember to keep a cool head, because borderline threats are not appreciated. m.o.p 21:49, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- It was not a threat, "borderline" or otherwise. You are conveniently ignoring a growing number of voices who are all saying the same thing - there is an ownership problem here. The deletion issue has not been "cleared up" as far as I'm concerned. Whenever it is mentioned Anupam insists that he did not "unilaterally" delete the RfCs from the page, which is a blatant distortion, since that is exactly what he did. He continues to act as a policeman at the page, and yes he does continue to cite your authority. Did you bother to read the many diffs I posted above in the second two sections? I will quote three random examples from those I provided for you if you want.
- When he first deleted the two RfCs he wrote: "rv - see discussion with reviewing administrator; approval needed to start another RfC while one is already occurring."
- When he deleted a fact tag that JimWae put into the lede: "rv excessive tagging per talk; tag is already extant in header; do not subvert previous consensus but gain consensus for potential additions per administrative notice"
- When he rejected another recent change to the entry: "accepted edits by User:Jkhwiki; rv removal of longstanding referenced content - see discussion on talk page and gain consensus for action per administrative injunction"
- In talk page comments and in edit summaries he consistently does the same thing. He refers to your authority, either directly or indirectly through your "notice" or your "injunction" as he likes to call it. I never said the claimed to have administrative authority, I said that he's using your authority, by way of your comments, such as the closure of the AfD to bully people. Do you deny that he citing your comments, because if you do then I must have fabricated those quotes. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:32, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
If you say "If you don't do A, then I'm going to go and do B", that's a threat. Anyway, that's not the issue - we've already covered all the issues with the RfC reverting, and Anupam won't do it again. Why keep raising hell over it?
We've already covered everything you bring up. And no, I'm not denying anything. I'm just saying this, and it's very simple: I don't think there has been any blatant ownership here. That's my judgment. If you disagree, again, feel free to raise this with another administrator or on ANI. m.o.p 23:12, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Regarding the new RFC, I still think there has not passed yet too much time since the last discussion about splitting the article. As far as I knew, repeating these sorts of debates (like splitting, deleting, renaming) before a larger amount of time has passed (like 6 months) is usually discouraged. And as others have also argued earlier, even if having multiple RFCs is possible, it's not very useful, and the new RFC seems to discourage further discussion about improving the lead introduction. So preventing multiple RFCs (and also a RFC about an issue debated not too long ago) does not look to me like evidence of bad faith intentions. Cody7777777 (talk) 21:37, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Cody, would you mind linking me to the previous RfC on splitting? m.o.p 21:49, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- The previous attempt to split the article can be found here. Cody7777777 (talk) 21:55, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Response
Yes, it does. Thanks, m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Dear User:Master of Puppets, I just noticed that User:Binksternet started another RfC while a current one is occurring. Is this appropriate? I reverted the addition motioning for one until your response is confirmed. If it is acceptable, then I apologize and will revert my edit. I look forward to your response. With regards, AnupamTalk 15:14, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'll form my reply on ANI. m.o.p 17:12, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- When you do please take into account my comment just above, regarding Anupam's edit warring to remove talk page comments (namely these RfCs) posted by others on the talk page. If you still don't think this is WP:OWN then clearly other administrators are needed here.Griswaldo (talk) 17:15, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Dear User:Griswaldo, how is going to a neutral mediator to address the issue owning the article? I acknowledge that the article is in dispute and as a result, I am asking an administrator for advice in this matter, NOT handling things on my own, as you have done by edit warring. Your WP:OWN allegations have not only been dismissed by this administrator, but by several other users, including, User:Lionelt, User:Cody7777777 and User:NYyankees51. Thanks, AnupamTalk 17:27, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- In reply to Griswaldo: reverting the RfCs was a mistake, but we've cleared that up now. As Anupam has stated at ANI, the intent was not to discourage discussion. If you think my judgment is compromised, you're welcome to seek another administrator's input. m.o.p 21:04, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- And as further evidence of WP:OWN, see this. Anupam adds a comment to everything that anyone else says, as if he/she is the owner of the article and everyone else is a subordinate contributor. This particular instance is pretty benign (although it clutters up the talk page with an unnecessary comment that merely says "I agree"), but I do think that Anupam at least needs to learn how to avoid giving the appearance of thinking he/she owns the article, and to desist from chipping in and saying the same thing over and over again, which almost makes meaningful discussion impossible! SNALWIBMA ( talk - contribs ) 17:31, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- While the input is appreciated, as I've said before, making allegations of ownership without hard evidence isn't going to get us anywhere. Anupam is not stopping others from discussing changes or forming consensus, and that's all that matters - refactoring the talk page or commenting on an issue is not against policy, and I'm not going to tell someone to stop editing because it "looks" like they're doing something wrong. As said above, you're welcome to request another administrator's insight if you wish. m.o.p 21:04, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
COIHi
you've helped me out before, with a conflict of interest problem, so having much more experience than me on wikipedia, I thought I would be bold enough to ask again for help.
Similar problem to last, User_talk:Hobbycraft is editing the HOBBYCRAFT article and making changes that aren't citably right. I think the user name suggest and history suggests a conflict of interest case.
Can you please, speak to them addressing this issue.
Thank you very much for your help.
Markcoulter50 (talk) 22:27, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
- I've blocked that user for username violations. Thanks a lot for letting me know! Keep up the great work, m.o.p 23:00, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkbackcausa sui (talk) 18:47, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Hello. You have a new message at causa sui's talk page. causa sui (talk) 20:54, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Problematic editing on militant atheism
- I hope it's not considered defamatory to repeat the final line: "I merely present the diffs above, and let others draw their own conclusions. Is this a duck? Does it quack? You decide.". Unfortunately, the concerned community no longer has that opportunity. What did you decide on their behalf? Does this duck quack, or not? bobrayner (talk) 15:42, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- It's not your wording, it's the very idea of it. Going to what's allegorically a public place and shouting, "Hey, everybody, this man is a criminal!" is one step below blatantly forming a lynch mob. As I've said, I have no problem with your wording or evidence, just your location of choice. Wikipedia is not, unfortunately, a democracy - letting others draw their conclusions and voice their opinions is not how a sockpuppet investigation works.
- So yes, please don't go restoring any of that section. We're not discussing editors, we're discussing the content they produce. Anything else has a sub-board to deal with it (like WP:SPI).
- Hopefully that clears things up! I'll be happy to answer any more questions should you have them. Cheers, m.o.p 15:48, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Hello User:Bobrayner, I noticed the section you created on the militant atheism talk page. If you do feel the way you do about User:Turnsalso and the anonymous IP Addresses, you can take this up with WP:SPI. Thanks, AnupamTalk 15:52, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
Are you kidding my MoP? Above your write: Going to what's allegorically a public place and shouting, "Hey, everybody, this man is a criminal!" is one step below blatantly forming a lynch mob. AND We're not discussing editors, we're discussing the content they produce. Yet you call this edit by Lionelt "good faith," at WQA? MoP, I would not ask you to agree with me or to like me, but can I please ask you not to insult me with these double standards.Griswaldo (talk) 16:18, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
]
- Griswaldo, I mean no offense when I say this, but I'd appreciate it if you stayed out of discussions which didn't involve you. Also, please don't put words in my mouth. Thanks, m.o.p 16:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I have not put words in your mouth. You said that you would assume good faith about Lionel. If you "assume good faith" it means you assume his edits were in "good faith." If you did not intend that meaning I suggest you reconsider what you wrote. Also, if you want me to "stay out of discussion which don't involve me" then I suggest your first order of business should be to do the same thing yourself. You decided to post at WQA, when there was no mention of you or anything you've done in that thread. Once again, I expect people not to practice double standards. So as long as you cannot show me that you will treat me as you ask to be treated yourself, I will not oblige you. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:21, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Please stop bickering. I'm not quite sure what you're trying to accomplish here. I've already explained what I meant when I said assuming good faith, but I'll explain again: I assumed that Lionelt was not hounding or deliberately haranguing you. I did not say, at any point, that his edit content was good faith, and I've told him not to edit like that again. So please stop accusing me of saying things I haven't said.
- Also, I posted in WQA because, as a mediator in this case and as an administrator, it's my duty to weigh in on administrative noticeboards, especially when the case is an ongoing discussion I've been participating in for three months. It is not your duty to weigh in on discussions on my talk page that don't concern you. I hope the distinction is clear here. m.o.p 20:33, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I think you are confused about something. Content is never good faith. "Editing in good faith" and "good faith edits" refers to the intent of the editor always. It has nothing to do with content. My assumption that you also felt the edits were appropriate comes from the fact that you did not say they weren't appropriate and clearly feel that his intentions were good. If you'd like to set the record straight on that issue you still can. I've asked you twice now to discuss the actual edits that are the focal point of the thread. Also, I moved the thread to ANI, per the suggestion of the editor who marked it "resolved."Griswaldo (talk) 20:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- See Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#User:Lionelt_--_following_my_past_edits_to_drum_up_support_against_me. FYI, I copy pasted the entire discussion because both you and Collect were critical of my initial post and I thought it was the right thing to do to preserve that criticism in the record of the conversation. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:43, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- In reply to your first paragraph: I'm going to give up now, as it seems you're misunderstanding most of what I type, but you're the one who stated that the content was not good faith (as you said, not appropriate), and I agreed - I referred to his intent in replying to you, and said that I assumed good faith in his motives, not his replies. I can't really say that in a clearer way, so my apologies if it's hard to understand. Also, as I've already said, I've left a message for Lionelt about his edits, so clearly I do not feel they're appropriate. m.o.p 20:57, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I, too, find these double standards vexing.
- Which diff is defamatory?
- I had hitherto thought that people on the article talkpage might like to be aware of potential problems with votestacking on the article talkpage (and 3rr evasion, of course). Would it be permitted to add a link to that list of diffs when it's in a different place, or would you consider that defamatory too? bobrayner (talk) 16:23, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- As I said, the information is not defamatory, but the way it's presented is - we have specific processes available to pursue should one feel there are sockpuppets about. However, calling someone out with the intent of informing the community is overstepping your authority and damaging to the accused's character. Also, there's no way a community discussion about whether or not one editor is a sockpuppet can end in anything other than a sockpuppet investigation anyway.
- So, in closing, please don't bring issues like this to the talk page. If you're concerned about votestacking, take it to the appropriate venue - if your concerns are validated, we'll take measures against said puppets. Cheers, m.o.p 16:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I am very disappointed that it's no longer permissible to raise problems with article-editing on the article talkpage. Previous concerns about sockpuppetry were simply ignored; the difference this time is that it's backed by lots of diffs.
- I'm fairly confident that the people concerned have sufficient technical nous to make checkuser draw a blank. And, let's be entirely honest, within minutes of me creating an SPI, an admin of the right persuasion will be getting an email suggesting that an SPI needs their attention. And SPI does not see offsite coordination by a facebook group &c. Finally, any null result at SPI will be used at the article in much the same way as previous administrative decisions have been. So, I do not believe that an SPI will improve either the article, or the encyclopædia as a whole. bobrayner (talk) 17:08, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- If you don't think the pre-existing methods set in place for situations like this are sufficient, you can always raise that concern at the village pump or suggest a policy revision - however, SPI is the venue for these requests, and the only venue. The talk page can not substitute. m.o.p 17:10, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
76.228.226.122Thank you for blocking the anonymous user, who is being counterproductive and rude. (although I think the block should have been one week, but I guess ok at least)
Can you also please try to hide the edit summaries of these edits if possible?
This and
this
Thanks and regards, talk 05:04, 26 September 2011 (UTC)]
- I'll extend the block if this behaviour continues after the block period is over.
- As for the edit summaries, those don't warrant hiding - I apologize for their content, but they don't meet the criteria of what I should remove. It's best just to ignore them for now. Cheers, m.o.p 05:13, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
- Okay, good to know, if I did nothing wrong, no permanent block will be enforced. The IP does not volunteer on WP as an admin and so the disproportionately out of line comments and threats of his should be ignored. --talk 05:19, 26 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Sounds good. We only hide extremely offensive revisions; milder ones stay in the edit history. Thanks again for bringing this to our attention! Cheers, m.o.p 05:31, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
Email
Jasper Deng (talk) 05:29, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
- Reading. talk) 06:00, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Bad Girls Club
- I've blocked Junebea for 2 days for disregarding warnings. m.o.p 20:30, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks for helping :) Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 21:06, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkback
- And again.Griswaldo (talk) 04:24, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
- And again ... but maybe the last. You can settle this question once and for all. See the talk page.Griswaldo (talk) 06:09, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'm sure I'm not alone in wanting to hear your replies to the last responses posed to you at that page. IMO, I don't know why you went down the road you did, but as far as I can tell you're blatantly misrepesenting facts about your own actions when people are brining concerns to you. You might think that since you closed the RfC the matter is settled, but it is not. You're actions have not made my life any more pleasant in the last few days vis-a-vis trying to deal with Anupam's disruption and I think you owe us all answers. So please revisit this thread and deal with the open questions. Thanks.Griswaldo (talk) 02:19, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
- I invite you to stop asking the same question again and again. This would be appreciated. Thanks, m.o.p 02:33, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Block question
- No, I just block obviously bad-faith accounts on sight. Advertising/spam accounts fall under that category. m.o.p 00:37, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Thanks
- Thank you. I've unlocked the article for whatever may come. If I'm needed again, feel free to let me know. Thanks for the kind words again, m.o.p 05:12, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
reminder
- We're still waiting to see if the user understands COI policy (per Ed's question). I'll prod the user and see if they'll answer. talk) 19:20, 30 September 2011 (UTC)]
Nextel logo deleted
- Mmm, good point. What's the link to the logo in question? m.o.p 01:33, 2 October 2011 (UTC)
Support of Sage City SymphonyYou deleted this page before I had a chance to go back in and add the stuff that you wanted to see, including the links within Wikipedia to important composers such as Lou Callabro (who started this orchestra and cites it in his Wikipedia page) and Susan Hurley whose work we premiered (SC is also mentioned in her Wikipedia entry). (Let alone links about the works we have performed.) And we have a web site at www.sagecitysymphony.org, have existed for over 35 yrs and are a significant cultural resource in the Bennington area such that we receive grants from local, statewide and national foundations.
I broke my wrist last weekend and am doing one-handed pecking so it'll take me a few days to get that loaded in. We are going out for a bit now, but I would appreciate your undeleting the page so that I don't have to re-invent the starting part when I go back in tomorrow to add links. Or delete it entirely so that I can start fresh - at this point either would work as long as I can start some serious work on it tomorrow. I am the webmaster by the way, so I do have access to content and more links.
Thank you, Celia Murray — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.228.127.119 (talk) 14:22, 1 October 2011 (UTC)
- It looks like fixed everything up. Best of luck, m.o.p 01:35, 2 October 2011 (UTC)]
Reply on Deterence's talk page
MA
After the beating you took you deserve a cold one--on me! Thanks for being fair and balanced – Lionel (talk) 03:55, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
- Hey, thanks! Glad to help out. :) m.o.p 03:56, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
Deletion of Mau5trap Recordings
--neocharles (talk) 07:33, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Existence does not equal notability - the subject has to be notable to get a Wikipedia page. m.o.p 12:05, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
Questoin re: AIV
- Addendum, actually, I read it very clearly in WP:VANDNOT: "Uploading or using material on Wikipedia in violation of Wikipedia's copyright policies is prohibited, but is not vandalism unless the user does so maliciously or fails to heed warnings." So if a person fails to heed warnings it is vandalism. My mistake here was that I only warned once. --Muhandes (talk) 12:29, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Eh, technically it is vandalism, but the user seems to be trying to improve the Wikipedia - that desire to help is misplaced in this case, as they seem to think that using copyrighted content is actually better. Weird. For most cases, yes, you should report copyvio to AIV - as long as they've been warned sufficiently. m.o.p 12:42, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- OK, he now did it again and the time stamp is after your last warning. Is it vandalism now? --Muhandes (talk) 12:32, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Yeah, if they're outright ignoring warnings. I've blocked for three days. m.o.p 12:40, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
Classmusic
- Oh, I know. But if somebody's lied to my face about using another account - and to other editors working on the article - I'm not about to let them go without a repercussion or two. I'd like Almost-instinct and Voceditnore to look over the article and fix up anything shifty. Also, I'd like Classmusic to respond to my warning, instead of blanking it and ignoring like they have to the above-named editors.
- So, in short, I know that COI doesn't bar editing, but it's enough of a concern that, given the user's recent behaviour, I'll stop them from doing anything until we've figured things out. This isn't too rouge-y, is it? I didn't hear that. Perhaps he is unaware of the sockpuppet investigation findings. Anyhow it seems that DeltaQuad has also blocked the Classmusic account. I left a note on his page about using the unblock template, but re-iterated that he needs to read the COI and Autobiography guidelines and stick to them scrupulously, if he gets unblocked. In the Opera and Classical Music WikiProjects, we get a lot of articles for performers, ensembles, etc. created by their agents and PR people, and often themselves. In my experience, the best I can hope for after one of these tussles is that they'll edit their article according to the guidelines in future. I have yet to find a single one who has ever contributed anything else to Wikipedia. Their only interest in the project is as a PR tool. Having said that, at least it results (after much red-pencilling from other editors) in one new article on a notable subject that we didn't have before and in a small way redresses the pop culture systemic bias here. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 13:40, 5 October 2011 (UTC)]
Danish election
- Never mind, it's been pulled by another admin. All the best, Jenks24 (talk) 11:03, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry about that! I was busy all day and didn't get your message until now. Thanks for letting me know, though! Cheers, m.o.p 19:51, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
3RRHey there! :)
Well WP:CRYSTAL has wined down, however, there's currently a
The Bad Girls Club (season 7). I have notified the two users [32], [33]. The evidence can be found here. They are having an edit-conflict on how the "Duration of cast" should be presented. Since there's no rules regarding anything like that, and it was made up about a year ago, I couldn't warned them to stop their e/c with anything except the 3RR rule. Maybe they need an admin to tell them to stop, so that's why I came to you :) Thanks, Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 01:17, 6 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Temporary page protection requested. Calabe1992 (talk) 01:29, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
User:12.139.96.228
- To be honest, this case is perplexing. Half of this user's edits are constructive (mostly sourced), the other half aren't sourced - and the user won't reply to anybody. I'm also too busy to go through every edit and confirm whether or not it's good. I forgot about this for a while - I'll think about it tonight and figure something out for tomorrow. Thanks for reminding me! m.o.p 05:18, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
Whoops
- Whoops! Must not have been looking when I ran my block script. Thanks for letting me know, I've reblocked them for a far shorter (technically, an infinitely shorter) time. Cheers, m.o.p 22:58, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
Ashleyleggat404
- You're fully right in that the blanking policy covers indefinite blocks. I've removed the user's talk page rights as a result. Thanks again! m.o.p 00:28, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkback
Moderation
- If you look into this please consider whether Anupam's actions on the talk page and the entry itself are violations of WP:OWN. He's been driving off those he disagrees with by bludgening them to death with argument and heavily policing the entry claiming that there is a consensus written in stone despite many dissenting voices. Others have taken to simply calling him "the article's owner." I have had enough of this behavior personally and left him a message about it on his talk page. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:52, 20 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Dear User:Master of Puppets, the above user has misrepresented the occurrences at the article. I started another Introduction discussion at the article's talk page but User:Griswaldo has chosen to edit war over a second NPOV tag, despite the fact that one already exists in the article. He has done so despite the fact that the Introduction is being discussed in a peaceful manner at the talk page, in violation of your injunction: "We've only got consensus on this proposed versions (and loose consensus at that) - please do not attempt to subvert said consensus by making undiscussed changes." I have posted a message on his talk page about this behaviour. Nevertheless, I also do not wish to argue with the user personally and would prefer if you could go back to moderating the discussion between the two parties at the talk page. Thanks for taking the time to read this message. With regards, AnupamTalk 20:58, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- His "injunction?" Adding a neutrality tag to a specific sentence which an editor disputes the neutrality of is hardly "subverting the consensus by making undiscussed changes." Please stop wikilawyering to get your way. There is a growing consensus against your position regarding this article in general as well, despite your aggressive policing of the entry and the talk page. See ]
- I just thought that I would mention that User:Griswaldo, after seeing this message, just now decided to comment in the discussion rather than edit war against consensus further. Thanks for taking the time to read this message. With regards, AnupamTalk 21:51, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- "Edit war against consensus further?" My comment there has nothing to do with your message here. I've made three total edits to this entry ever. One was a copy edit in June, another was reverting an IP vandal, and the third was the revert of your Ownership edit. Please do not insinuate that I'm a edit warrior on this page. It is disingenuous.Griswaldo (talk) 22:08, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Thank you all for approaching me with your concerns.
- Obviously, I do not support Anupam - this is because I'm remaining a neutral third party, and, therefore, can't take sides. However, Griswaldo: please keep in mind that I did ask for all discussion to take place on the talk page. Why not just add your complaints to the talk page? It would have been much easier to discuss.
- I do agree that adding a NPOV tag, while slightly redundant, isn't horrible, but your intent seems to have been to stir discussion on that particular section, discussion that would be much more appropriate on the talk page.
- As for your and Snalwibma's concerns of Anupam trying to 'own' the article, I'm curious as to what you two mean; what 'delusions'?
- Also, Griswaldo, I don't think Anupam meant to insinuate you are an edit warrior (though this is just my take) - rather, they wanted to add the note that you've weighed in on discussion. m.o.p 22:10, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- your intent seems to have been to stir discussion on that particular section - No that's incorrect. I didn't add this tag, I simply reverted Anupam's attempt to own the page when he removed it. I agreed with JimWae's addition of the tag and found Anupam's removal to be unwarranted and a display of ownership.Griswaldo (talk) 22:16, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Note that, for all intents and purposes, reverting somebody is adding whatever is included in your edit, regardless of who put it there first. You revert a removal, you're agreeing with the edition you're reverting to - simple.
- And, if you agreed with JimWae, then we go back to what I was saying earlier - say so on the talk page. Two of you agree? Great! That's closer to consensus. But it means nothing if you express your support by reverting removals.
- Again, as I've asked multiple times, please stop saying that Anupam is owning anything without giving me evidence of it first. m.o.p 22:22, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Dear User:Master of Puppets, thank you for your reply to all of us. The reason User:Snalwibma stated that I was attempting to "own" the article was because I reverted an undiscussed removal from the article, which not only myself, but two other users objected to. In fact, two anonymous IP Addresses also reverted User:Snalwibma. I was open to compromise on the issue and stated that I would accept User:Turnsalso's compromise on the issue. I kindly request you to look at that discussion yourself and get an honest reading of it. Also, the only reason I removed the second NPOV tag was because there was already one present, which I did not remove. I only reverted the addition of a second NPOV tag once and even explained myself on the talk page. When I went to the talk page, I found rude accusations and an anti-collaborative spirit, despite the fact that I have been nothing but polite. I hope this helps. With regards, AnupamTalk 22:25, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry - I know I should not rise to the bait, but I have to object to the comment "The reason User:Snalwibma stated that I was attempting to 'own' the article was because I reverted an undiscussed removal ..." How dare Anupam presume to know what is in my mind! The reason I describe Anupam's attitude to the article as one of ownership is because that is how s/he behaves - "policing" every edit, pronouncing on whether s/he "accepts" or "rejects" it, peremptorily reverting anything s/he does not like, without discussion, presuming to know others' motives, and judging them as fit/unfit to contribute to the article. This has been going on for weeks, if not months. It is impossible to discuss the content of the article, let alone improve the text, because everything is filtered through the approval/disapproval of the article's self-appointed guardian, Anupam. tendentious or disruptive when they bring up certain issues, even when they are clearly in the majority. That is not collaborative. I stopped editing the article heavily because of those issues. I don't have any delusions that my opinion is worth more than anyone else's here, but I would think that the large number of established, experienced editors who are all saying there's a problem, would indicate something. — Jess· Δ♥ 19:45, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
Please reconsider your full protection of Militant atheist
- In case you didn't notice, I asked that people think twice about pointing fingers at each other. If you'd like to start a sockpuppetry investigation, let me know, and we can take that avenue - however, don't accuse other editors of ownership without substance. If you think Anupam is trying to own things, give me something. Diffs, edits, anything. I'll check it out for you, but right now, baseless accusations are not what I'm looking for.
- Also, notice that I protected the article with your edit being the last one. How is that validating the very person you've been reverting?
- The protection will stay until consensus is reached. m.o.p 22:19, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Because protection is what he wants quite clearly. He's stalling conversation and shouting down people on the talk page, where, if you have a look, you'll see he's clearly in the minority. Because of your "injunction" as he calls it, he also claims that no matter how many people agree with a certain change it is illegitimate. I'll be happy to gather some diffs, but my first message to you above was to please look into the situation carefully before acting on it. Did you do that and come to the conclusion that I'm wrong or did you not head that request? Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:29, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Yes, I did heed your request. I don't see any ownership behaviour from Anupam, though, being involved in multiple disputes, I didn't have the time to read every last word on the page, so you're free to provide evidence. However, from what I can see, Anupam's last proposal was supported by the majority - not to count (and I don't mean to imply that I decide where consensus lies by looking at pure numbers), but from looking at pure supports versus opposes, eight people (nine including Anupam) support while four oppose. How does that make Anupam's views a minority? m.o.p 22:37, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- It depends on what view you are talking about. The current RFC on the introduction is something that most people don't even want to engage because most people think this very entry should be split up and integrated into other entries. I reluctantly engaged the RfC just now myself. The last time the more serious question about the entry was asked, several of the new commentators were not around, and there was "no consensus" found because the opposing side was chalk full of SPAs and editors with a view that is outright hostile to atheism (which is a legitimate view to hold, but it is a minority view). Let me find you some diffs.Griswaldo (talk) 22:43, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- User:Griswaldo, that is exactly the issue: you do not want to collaborate with other users on the talk page, which is why you were reluctant to participate in the current RfC. Moreover, there were several SPA's on the side of the opposition as well, including WP:NPOV. In addition, the split was again recently discussed and the specific case to do so was refuted by several editors. As such, there was no consensus for it. I hope this helps. With regards, AnupamTalk 22:52, 20 September 2011 (UTC)]
- No. You are trying to write an article that violates WP:SYNTH because it conflates New Atheism with oppressive communist regimes and their histories of violence. That's hardly NPOV. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:59, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
Hi m.o.p., as someone who occasionally looks at that page (and then washes my hands), I just want to compliment you as having done the right thing in full protecting. By way of unsolicited advice to the involved editors, the best thing they could do is to allow The Wrong Version to sit there a good long time, and devote their energy to other things. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:54, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
]
Yes, please reconsider your full protection of
WP:RS—deserve protection against misinformed reverts. Thanks Geremia (talk) 16:12, 22 September 2011 (UTC)]
Diffs of
- I'm not really sure where the ownership is here; nowhere in our policies is it stated that a user can't promote their RFC on the subject talk page. If it's ongoing and they'd like to move it to the forefront, what's wrong with that? More so, some of your summaries seem inaccurate - in that last diff, you state that Anupam is removing images, yet I only see Anupam adding an image (the peace dove that's at the top of the page). Also, you use repeating examples. m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Well clearly the last diff was wrong. Thanks for the vote of confidence. There are no repeat examples nor inaccurate summaries, just a mistaken copy paste of the second to last diff to the last position as well. I have fixed it. Cheers.
- Using "consensus claims from one RfC to reject changes made to article content
- Same as above. Using the "consensus" bludgeon to get his way. Please note that clearly we ought to edit by consensus, but this consensus is highly disputed, and IMO not there in the first place. The real problem is the way in which Anupam decides to use it like a trump card to remove changes he doesn't like. Ask yourself if all changes post "consensus" have been removed or just the ones Anupam decided he wanted removed.
Master of Puppets do you need more diffs or is this enough?Griswaldo (talk) 23:31, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Well I need more diffs because your "evidence" so far looks like a desperate attempt to incriminate an editor who has been very successful in persuading his colleagues to adopt his proposals. Anupam has presented his proposals, argued the merits and persuaded many editors. Anything you want to tell us about why you're having difficulty doing likewise? – Lionel (talk) 06:02, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- I don't see this is as conclusive evidence, either. And, it should be said - if people are editing against established consensus, then people are free to re-evaluate consensus, but edit-warring against it doesn't make much sense. m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- If not ownership then what is this - [28], [29], [30]? He removes two RfCs started by another editor, and revolving around the question that many of us actually find to be the fundamental question to answer regarding the entry. Then he edit wars to keep these RfCs off the page, claiming again to have some sort of authority stemming from your prior actions. If you aren't willing to do something here I'm going to another administrator and I'm going to ask for your initial "consensus," your strong arm administrating, and your lack of action here to be reviewed as well. Thanks.Griswaldo (talk) 17:08, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Anupam has already apologized for reverting those RfC additions, and we've moved past it. He also didn't claim to have administrative authority, but was waiting for my approval. We've cleared this up, it's not an issue. So no, I'm not going to take any action (as I've said here and on ANI). Now, if you'd like to threaten me and tell me that, since I'm not cooperating with your wills, you'll go to another administrator, that's fine - as I've said, you can seek outside opinions - but remember to keep a cool head, because borderline threats are not appreciated. m.o.p 21:49, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- It was not a threat, "borderline" or otherwise. You are conveniently ignoring a growing number of voices who are all saying the same thing - there is an ownership problem here. The deletion issue has not been "cleared up" as far as I'm concerned. Whenever it is mentioned Anupam insists that he did not "unilaterally" delete the RfCs from the page, which is a blatant distortion, since that is exactly what he did. He continues to act as a policeman at the page, and yes he does continue to cite your authority. Did you bother to read the many diffs I posted above in the second two sections? I will quote three random examples from those I provided for you if you want.
- When he first deleted the two RfCs he wrote: "rv - see discussion with reviewing administrator; approval needed to start another RfC while one is already occurring."
- When he deleted a fact tag that JimWae put into the lede: "rv excessive tagging per talk; tag is already extant in header; do not subvert previous consensus but gain consensus for potential additions per administrative notice"
- When he rejected another recent change to the entry: "accepted edits by User:Jkhwiki; rv removal of longstanding referenced content - see discussion on talk page and gain consensus for action per administrative injunction"
- In talk page comments and in edit summaries he consistently does the same thing. He refers to your authority, either directly or indirectly through your "notice" or your "injunction" as he likes to call it. I never said the claimed to have administrative authority, I said that he's using your authority, by way of your comments, such as the closure of the AfD to bully people. Do you deny that he citing your comments, because if you do then I must have fabricated those quotes. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:32, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
If you say "If you don't do A, then I'm going to go and do B", that's a threat. Anyway, that's not the issue - we've already covered all the issues with the RfC reverting, and Anupam won't do it again. Why keep raising hell over it?
We've already covered everything you bring up. And no, I'm not denying anything. I'm just saying this, and it's very simple: I don't think there has been any blatant ownership here. That's my judgment. If you disagree, again, feel free to raise this with another administrator or on ANI. m.o.p 23:12, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Regarding the new RFC, I still think there has not passed yet too much time since the last discussion about splitting the article. As far as I knew, repeating these sorts of debates (like splitting, deleting, renaming) before a larger amount of time has passed (like 6 months) is usually discouraged. And as others have also argued earlier, even if having multiple RFCs is possible, it's not very useful, and the new RFC seems to discourage further discussion about improving the lead introduction. So preventing multiple RFCs (and also a RFC about an issue debated not too long ago) does not look to me like evidence of bad faith intentions. Cody7777777 (talk) 21:37, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Cody, would you mind linking me to the previous RfC on splitting? m.o.p 21:49, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- The previous attempt to split the article can be found here. Cody7777777 (talk) 21:55, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Response
Yes, it does. Thanks, m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Dear User:Master of Puppets, I just noticed that User:Binksternet started another RfC while a current one is occurring. Is this appropriate? I reverted the addition motioning for one until your response is confirmed. If it is acceptable, then I apologize and will revert my edit. I look forward to your response. With regards, AnupamTalk 15:14, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'll form my reply on ANI. m.o.p 17:12, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- When you do please take into account my comment just above, regarding Anupam's edit warring to remove talk page comments (namely these RfCs) posted by others on the talk page. If you still don't think this is WP:OWN then clearly other administrators are needed here.Griswaldo (talk) 17:15, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Dear User:Griswaldo, how is going to a neutral mediator to address the issue owning the article? I acknowledge that the article is in dispute and as a result, I am asking an administrator for advice in this matter, NOT handling things on my own, as you have done by edit warring. Your WP:OWN allegations have not only been dismissed by this administrator, but by several other users, including, User:Lionelt, User:Cody7777777 and User:NYyankees51. Thanks, AnupamTalk 17:27, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- In reply to Griswaldo: reverting the RfCs was a mistake, but we've cleared that up now. As Anupam has stated at ANI, the intent was not to discourage discussion. If you think my judgment is compromised, you're welcome to seek another administrator's input. m.o.p 21:04, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- And as further evidence of WP:OWN, see this. Anupam adds a comment to everything that anyone else says, as if he/she is the owner of the article and everyone else is a subordinate contributor. This particular instance is pretty benign (although it clutters up the talk page with an unnecessary comment that merely says "I agree"), but I do think that Anupam at least needs to learn how to avoid giving the appearance of thinking he/she owns the article, and to desist from chipping in and saying the same thing over and over again, which almost makes meaningful discussion impossible! SNALWIBMA ( talk - contribs ) 17:31, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- While the input is appreciated, as I've said before, making allegations of ownership without hard evidence isn't going to get us anywhere. Anupam is not stopping others from discussing changes or forming consensus, and that's all that matters - refactoring the talk page or commenting on an issue is not against policy, and I'm not going to tell someone to stop editing because it "looks" like they're doing something wrong. As said above, you're welcome to request another administrator's insight if you wish. m.o.p 21:04, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
COIHi
you've helped me out before, with a conflict of interest problem, so having much more experience than me on wikipedia, I thought I would be bold enough to ask again for help.
Similar problem to last, User_talk:Hobbycraft is editing the HOBBYCRAFT article and making changes that aren't citably right. I think the user name suggest and history suggests a conflict of interest case.
Can you please, speak to them addressing this issue.
Thank you very much for your help.
Markcoulter50 (talk) 22:27, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
- I've blocked that user for username violations. Thanks a lot for letting me know! Keep up the great work, m.o.p 23:00, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkbackcausa sui (talk) 18:47, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Hello. You have a new message at causa sui's talk page. causa sui (talk) 20:54, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Problematic editing on militant atheism
- I hope it's not considered defamatory to repeat the final line: "I merely present the diffs above, and let others draw their own conclusions. Is this a duck? Does it quack? You decide.". Unfortunately, the concerned community no longer has that opportunity. What did you decide on their behalf? Does this duck quack, or not? bobrayner (talk) 15:42, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- It's not your wording, it's the very idea of it. Going to what's allegorically a public place and shouting, "Hey, everybody, this man is a criminal!" is one step below blatantly forming a lynch mob. As I've said, I have no problem with your wording or evidence, just your location of choice. Wikipedia is not, unfortunately, a democracy - letting others draw their conclusions and voice their opinions is not how a sockpuppet investigation works.
- So yes, please don't go restoring any of that section. We're not discussing editors, we're discussing the content they produce. Anything else has a sub-board to deal with it (like WP:SPI).
- Hopefully that clears things up! I'll be happy to answer any more questions should you have them. Cheers, m.o.p 15:48, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Hello User:Bobrayner, I noticed the section you created on the militant atheism talk page. If you do feel the way you do about User:Turnsalso and the anonymous IP Addresses, you can take this up with WP:SPI. Thanks, AnupamTalk 15:52, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
Are you kidding my MoP? Above your write: Going to what's allegorically a public place and shouting, "Hey, everybody, this man is a criminal!" is one step below blatantly forming a lynch mob. AND We're not discussing editors, we're discussing the content they produce. Yet you call this edit by Lionelt "good faith," at WQA? MoP, I would not ask you to agree with me or to like me, but can I please ask you not to insult me with these double standards.Griswaldo (talk) 16:18, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
]
- Griswaldo, I mean no offense when I say this, but I'd appreciate it if you stayed out of discussions which didn't involve you. Also, please don't put words in my mouth. Thanks, m.o.p 16:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I have not put words in your mouth. You said that you would assume good faith about Lionel. If you "assume good faith" it means you assume his edits were in "good faith." If you did not intend that meaning I suggest you reconsider what you wrote. Also, if you want me to "stay out of discussion which don't involve me" then I suggest your first order of business should be to do the same thing yourself. You decided to post at WQA, when there was no mention of you or anything you've done in that thread. Once again, I expect people not to practice double standards. So as long as you cannot show me that you will treat me as you ask to be treated yourself, I will not oblige you. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:21, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Please stop bickering. I'm not quite sure what you're trying to accomplish here. I've already explained what I meant when I said assuming good faith, but I'll explain again: I assumed that Lionelt was not hounding or deliberately haranguing you. I did not say, at any point, that his edit content was good faith, and I've told him not to edit like that again. So please stop accusing me of saying things I haven't said.
- Also, I posted in WQA because, as a mediator in this case and as an administrator, it's my duty to weigh in on administrative noticeboards, especially when the case is an ongoing discussion I've been participating in for three months. It is not your duty to weigh in on discussions on my talk page that don't concern you. I hope the distinction is clear here. m.o.p 20:33, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I think you are confused about something. Content is never good faith. "Editing in good faith" and "good faith edits" refers to the intent of the editor always. It has nothing to do with content. My assumption that you also felt the edits were appropriate comes from the fact that you did not say they weren't appropriate and clearly feel that his intentions were good. If you'd like to set the record straight on that issue you still can. I've asked you twice now to discuss the actual edits that are the focal point of the thread. Also, I moved the thread to ANI, per the suggestion of the editor who marked it "resolved."Griswaldo (talk) 20:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- See Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#User:Lionelt_--_following_my_past_edits_to_drum_up_support_against_me. FYI, I copy pasted the entire discussion because both you and Collect were critical of my initial post and I thought it was the right thing to do to preserve that criticism in the record of the conversation. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:43, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- In reply to your first paragraph: I'm going to give up now, as it seems you're misunderstanding most of what I type, but you're the one who stated that the content was not good faith (as you said, not appropriate), and I agreed - I referred to his intent in replying to you, and said that I assumed good faith in his motives, not his replies. I can't really say that in a clearer way, so my apologies if it's hard to understand. Also, as I've already said, I've left a message for Lionelt about his edits, so clearly I do not feel they're appropriate. m.o.p 20:57, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I, too, find these double standards vexing.
- Which diff is defamatory?
- I had hitherto thought that people on the article talkpage might like to be aware of potential problems with votestacking on the article talkpage (and 3rr evasion, of course). Would it be permitted to add a link to that list of diffs when it's in a different place, or would you consider that defamatory too? bobrayner (talk) 16:23, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- As I said, the information is not defamatory, but the way it's presented is - we have specific processes available to pursue should one feel there are sockpuppets about. However, calling someone out with the intent of informing the community is overstepping your authority and damaging to the accused's character. Also, there's no way a community discussion about whether or not one editor is a sockpuppet can end in anything other than a sockpuppet investigation anyway.
- So, in closing, please don't bring issues like this to the talk page. If you're concerned about votestacking, take it to the appropriate venue - if your concerns are validated, we'll take measures against said puppets. Cheers, m.o.p 16:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I am very disappointed that it's no longer permissible to raise problems with article-editing on the article talkpage. Previous concerns about sockpuppetry were simply ignored; the difference this time is that it's backed by lots of diffs.
- I'm fairly confident that the people concerned have sufficient technical nous to make checkuser draw a blank. And, let's be entirely honest, within minutes of me creating an SPI, an admin of the right persuasion will be getting an email suggesting that an SPI needs their attention. And SPI does not see offsite coordination by a facebook group &c. Finally, any null result at SPI will be used at the article in much the same way as previous administrative decisions have been. So, I do not believe that an SPI will improve either the article, or the encyclopædia as a whole. bobrayner (talk) 17:08, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- If you don't think the pre-existing methods set in place for situations like this are sufficient, you can always raise that concern at the village pump or suggest a policy revision - however, SPI is the venue for these requests, and the only venue. The talk page can not substitute. m.o.p 17:10, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
76.228.226.122Thank you for blocking the anonymous user, who is being counterproductive and rude. (although I think the block should have been one week, but I guess ok at least)
Can you also please try to hide the edit summaries of these edits if possible?
This and
this
Thanks and regards, talk 05:04, 26 September 2011 (UTC)]
- I'll extend the block if this behaviour continues after the block period is over.
- As for the edit summaries, those don't warrant hiding - I apologize for their content, but they don't meet the criteria of what I should remove. It's best just to ignore them for now. Cheers, m.o.p 05:13, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
- Okay, good to know, if I did nothing wrong, no permanent block will be enforced. The IP does not volunteer on WP as an admin and so the disproportionately out of line comments and threats of his should be ignored. --talk 05:19, 26 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Sounds good. We only hide extremely offensive revisions; milder ones stay in the edit history. Thanks again for bringing this to our attention! Cheers, m.o.p 05:31, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
Email
Jasper Deng (talk) 05:29, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
- Reading. talk) 06:00, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Bad Girls Club
- I've blocked Junebea for 2 days for disregarding warnings. m.o.p 20:30, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks for helping :) Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 21:06, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkback
- And again.Griswaldo (talk) 04:24, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
- And again ... but maybe the last. You can settle this question once and for all. See the talk page.Griswaldo (talk) 06:09, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'm sure I'm not alone in wanting to hear your replies to the last responses posed to you at that page. IMO, I don't know why you went down the road you did, but as far as I can tell you're blatantly misrepesenting facts about your own actions when people are brining concerns to you. You might think that since you closed the RfC the matter is settled, but it is not. You're actions have not made my life any more pleasant in the last few days vis-a-vis trying to deal with Anupam's disruption and I think you owe us all answers. So please revisit this thread and deal with the open questions. Thanks.Griswaldo (talk) 02:19, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
- I invite you to stop asking the same question again and again. This would be appreciated. Thanks, m.o.p 02:33, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Block question
- No, I just block obviously bad-faith accounts on sight. Advertising/spam accounts fall under that category. m.o.p 00:37, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Thanks
- Thank you. I've unlocked the article for whatever may come. If I'm needed again, feel free to let me know. Thanks for the kind words again, m.o.p 05:12, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
reminder
- We're still waiting to see if the user understands COI policy (per Ed's question). I'll prod the user and see if they'll answer. talk) 19:20, 30 September 2011 (UTC)]
Nextel logo deleted
- Mmm, good point. What's the link to the logo in question? m.o.p 01:33, 2 October 2011 (UTC)
Support of Sage City SymphonyYou deleted this page before I had a chance to go back in and add the stuff that you wanted to see, including the links within Wikipedia to important composers such as Lou Callabro (who started this orchestra and cites it in his Wikipedia page) and Susan Hurley whose work we premiered (SC is also mentioned in her Wikipedia entry). (Let alone links about the works we have performed.) And we have a web site at www.sagecitysymphony.org, have existed for over 35 yrs and are a significant cultural resource in the Bennington area such that we receive grants from local, statewide and national foundations.
I broke my wrist last weekend and am doing one-handed pecking so it'll take me a few days to get that loaded in. We are going out for a bit now, but I would appreciate your undeleting the page so that I don't have to re-invent the starting part when I go back in tomorrow to add links. Or delete it entirely so that I can start fresh - at this point either would work as long as I can start some serious work on it tomorrow. I am the webmaster by the way, so I do have access to content and more links.
Thank you, Celia Murray — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.228.127.119 (talk) 14:22, 1 October 2011 (UTC)
- It looks like fixed everything up. Best of luck, m.o.p 01:35, 2 October 2011 (UTC)]
Reply on Deterence's talk page
MA
After the beating you took you deserve a cold one--on me! Thanks for being fair and balanced – Lionel (talk) 03:55, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
- Hey, thanks! Glad to help out. :) m.o.p 03:56, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
Deletion of Mau5trap Recordings
--neocharles (talk) 07:33, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Existence does not equal notability - the subject has to be notable to get a Wikipedia page. m.o.p 12:05, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
Questoin re: AIV
- Addendum, actually, I read it very clearly in WP:VANDNOT: "Uploading or using material on Wikipedia in violation of Wikipedia's copyright policies is prohibited, but is not vandalism unless the user does so maliciously or fails to heed warnings." So if a person fails to heed warnings it is vandalism. My mistake here was that I only warned once. --Muhandes (talk) 12:29, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Eh, technically it is vandalism, but the user seems to be trying to improve the Wikipedia - that desire to help is misplaced in this case, as they seem to think that using copyrighted content is actually better. Weird. For most cases, yes, you should report copyvio to AIV - as long as they've been warned sufficiently. m.o.p 12:42, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- OK, he now did it again and the time stamp is after your last warning. Is it vandalism now? --Muhandes (talk) 12:32, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Yeah, if they're outright ignoring warnings. I've blocked for three days. m.o.p 12:40, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
Classmusic
- Oh, I know. But if somebody's lied to my face about using another account - and to other editors working on the article - I'm not about to let them go without a repercussion or two. I'd like Almost-instinct and Voceditnore to look over the article and fix up anything shifty. Also, I'd like Classmusic to respond to my warning, instead of blanking it and ignoring like they have to the above-named editors.
- So, in short, I know that COI doesn't bar editing, but it's enough of a concern that, given the user's recent behaviour, I'll stop them from doing anything until we've figured things out. This isn't too rouge-y, is it? I didn't hear that. Perhaps he is unaware of the sockpuppet investigation findings. Anyhow it seems that DeltaQuad has also blocked the Classmusic account. I left a note on his page about using the unblock template, but re-iterated that he needs to read the COI and Autobiography guidelines and stick to them scrupulously, if he gets unblocked. In the Opera and Classical Music WikiProjects, we get a lot of articles for performers, ensembles, etc. created by their agents and PR people, and often themselves. In my experience, the best I can hope for after one of these tussles is that they'll edit their article according to the guidelines in future. I have yet to find a single one who has ever contributed anything else to Wikipedia. Their only interest in the project is as a PR tool. Having said that, at least it results (after much red-pencilling from other editors) in one new article on a notable subject that we didn't have before and in a small way redresses the pop culture systemic bias here. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 13:40, 5 October 2011 (UTC)]
Danish election
- Never mind, it's been pulled by another admin. All the best, Jenks24 (talk) 11:03, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry about that! I was busy all day and didn't get your message until now. Thanks for letting me know, though! Cheers, m.o.p 19:51, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
3RRHey there! :)
Well WP:CRYSTAL has wined down, however, there's currently a
The Bad Girls Club (season 7). I have notified the two users [32], [33]. The evidence can be found here. They are having an edit-conflict on how the "Duration of cast" should be presented. Since there's no rules regarding anything like that, and it was made up about a year ago, I couldn't warned them to stop their e/c with anything except the 3RR rule. Maybe they need an admin to tell them to stop, so that's why I came to you :) Thanks, Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 01:17, 6 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Temporary page protection requested. Calabe1992 (talk) 01:29, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
Whoops
- Whoops! Must not have been looking when I ran my block script. Thanks for letting me know, I've reblocked them for a far shorter (technically, an infinitely shorter) time. Cheers, m.o.p 22:58, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
Ashleyleggat404
- You're fully right in that the blanking policy covers indefinite blocks. I've removed the user's talk page rights as a result. Thanks again! m.o.p 00:28, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkback
Moderation
- If you look into this please consider whether Anupam's actions on the talk page and the entry itself are violations of WP:OWN. He's been driving off those he disagrees with by bludgening them to death with argument and heavily policing the entry claiming that there is a consensus written in stone despite many dissenting voices. Others have taken to simply calling him "the article's owner." I have had enough of this behavior personally and left him a message about it on his talk page. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:52, 20 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Dear User:Master of Puppets, the above user has misrepresented the occurrences at the article. I started another Introduction discussion at the article's talk page but User:Griswaldo has chosen to edit war over a second NPOV tag, despite the fact that one already exists in the article. He has done so despite the fact that the Introduction is being discussed in a peaceful manner at the talk page, in violation of your injunction: "We've only got consensus on this proposed versions (and loose consensus at that) - please do not attempt to subvert said consensus by making undiscussed changes." I have posted a message on his talk page about this behaviour. Nevertheless, I also do not wish to argue with the user personally and would prefer if you could go back to moderating the discussion between the two parties at the talk page. Thanks for taking the time to read this message. With regards, AnupamTalk 20:58, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- His "injunction?" Adding a neutrality tag to a specific sentence which an editor disputes the neutrality of is hardly "subverting the consensus by making undiscussed changes." Please stop wikilawyering to get your way. There is a growing consensus against your position regarding this article in general as well, despite your aggressive policing of the entry and the talk page. See ]
- I just thought that I would mention that User:Griswaldo, after seeing this message, just now decided to comment in the discussion rather than edit war against consensus further. Thanks for taking the time to read this message. With regards, AnupamTalk 21:51, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- "Edit war against consensus further?" My comment there has nothing to do with your message here. I've made three total edits to this entry ever. One was a copy edit in June, another was reverting an IP vandal, and the third was the revert of your Ownership edit. Please do not insinuate that I'm a edit warrior on this page. It is disingenuous.Griswaldo (talk) 22:08, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Thank you all for approaching me with your concerns.
- Obviously, I do not support Anupam - this is because I'm remaining a neutral third party, and, therefore, can't take sides. However, Griswaldo: please keep in mind that I did ask for all discussion to take place on the talk page. Why not just add your complaints to the talk page? It would have been much easier to discuss.
- I do agree that adding a NPOV tag, while slightly redundant, isn't horrible, but your intent seems to have been to stir discussion on that particular section, discussion that would be much more appropriate on the talk page.
- As for your and Snalwibma's concerns of Anupam trying to 'own' the article, I'm curious as to what you two mean; what 'delusions'?
- Also, Griswaldo, I don't think Anupam meant to insinuate you are an edit warrior (though this is just my take) - rather, they wanted to add the note that you've weighed in on discussion. m.o.p 22:10, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- your intent seems to have been to stir discussion on that particular section - No that's incorrect. I didn't add this tag, I simply reverted Anupam's attempt to own the page when he removed it. I agreed with JimWae's addition of the tag and found Anupam's removal to be unwarranted and a display of ownership.Griswaldo (talk) 22:16, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Note that, for all intents and purposes, reverting somebody is adding whatever is included in your edit, regardless of who put it there first. You revert a removal, you're agreeing with the edition you're reverting to - simple.
- And, if you agreed with JimWae, then we go back to what I was saying earlier - say so on the talk page. Two of you agree? Great! That's closer to consensus. But it means nothing if you express your support by reverting removals.
- Again, as I've asked multiple times, please stop saying that Anupam is owning anything without giving me evidence of it first. m.o.p 22:22, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Dear User:Master of Puppets, thank you for your reply to all of us. The reason User:Snalwibma stated that I was attempting to "own" the article was because I reverted an undiscussed removal from the article, which not only myself, but two other users objected to. In fact, two anonymous IP Addresses also reverted User:Snalwibma. I was open to compromise on the issue and stated that I would accept User:Turnsalso's compromise on the issue. I kindly request you to look at that discussion yourself and get an honest reading of it. Also, the only reason I removed the second NPOV tag was because there was already one present, which I did not remove. I only reverted the addition of a second NPOV tag once and even explained myself on the talk page. When I went to the talk page, I found rude accusations and an anti-collaborative spirit, despite the fact that I have been nothing but polite. I hope this helps. With regards, AnupamTalk 22:25, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry - I know I should not rise to the bait, but I have to object to the comment "The reason User:Snalwibma stated that I was attempting to 'own' the article was because I reverted an undiscussed removal ..." How dare Anupam presume to know what is in my mind! The reason I describe Anupam's attitude to the article as one of ownership is because that is how s/he behaves - "policing" every edit, pronouncing on whether s/he "accepts" or "rejects" it, peremptorily reverting anything s/he does not like, without discussion, presuming to know others' motives, and judging them as fit/unfit to contribute to the article. This has been going on for weeks, if not months. It is impossible to discuss the content of the article, let alone improve the text, because everything is filtered through the approval/disapproval of the article's self-appointed guardian, Anupam. tendentious or disruptive when they bring up certain issues, even when they are clearly in the majority. That is not collaborative. I stopped editing the article heavily because of those issues. I don't have any delusions that my opinion is worth more than anyone else's here, but I would think that the large number of established, experienced editors who are all saying there's a problem, would indicate something. — Jess· Δ♥ 19:45, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
Please reconsider your full protection of Militant atheist
- In case you didn't notice, I asked that people think twice about pointing fingers at each other. If you'd like to start a sockpuppetry investigation, let me know, and we can take that avenue - however, don't accuse other editors of ownership without substance. If you think Anupam is trying to own things, give me something. Diffs, edits, anything. I'll check it out for you, but right now, baseless accusations are not what I'm looking for.
- Also, notice that I protected the article with your edit being the last one. How is that validating the very person you've been reverting?
- The protection will stay until consensus is reached. m.o.p 22:19, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Because protection is what he wants quite clearly. He's stalling conversation and shouting down people on the talk page, where, if you have a look, you'll see he's clearly in the minority. Because of your "injunction" as he calls it, he also claims that no matter how many people agree with a certain change it is illegitimate. I'll be happy to gather some diffs, but my first message to you above was to please look into the situation carefully before acting on it. Did you do that and come to the conclusion that I'm wrong or did you not head that request? Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:29, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Yes, I did heed your request. I don't see any ownership behaviour from Anupam, though, being involved in multiple disputes, I didn't have the time to read every last word on the page, so you're free to provide evidence. However, from what I can see, Anupam's last proposal was supported by the majority - not to count (and I don't mean to imply that I decide where consensus lies by looking at pure numbers), but from looking at pure supports versus opposes, eight people (nine including Anupam) support while four oppose. How does that make Anupam's views a minority? m.o.p 22:37, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- It depends on what view you are talking about. The current RFC on the introduction is something that most people don't even want to engage because most people think this very entry should be split up and integrated into other entries. I reluctantly engaged the RfC just now myself. The last time the more serious question about the entry was asked, several of the new commentators were not around, and there was "no consensus" found because the opposing side was chalk full of SPAs and editors with a view that is outright hostile to atheism (which is a legitimate view to hold, but it is a minority view). Let me find you some diffs.Griswaldo (talk) 22:43, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- User:Griswaldo, that is exactly the issue: you do not want to collaborate with other users on the talk page, which is why you were reluctant to participate in the current RfC. Moreover, there were several SPA's on the side of the opposition as well, including WP:NPOV. In addition, the split was again recently discussed and the specific case to do so was refuted by several editors. As such, there was no consensus for it. I hope this helps. With regards, AnupamTalk 22:52, 20 September 2011 (UTC)]
- No. You are trying to write an article that violates WP:SYNTH because it conflates New Atheism with oppressive communist regimes and their histories of violence. That's hardly NPOV. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:59, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
Hi m.o.p., as someone who occasionally looks at that page (and then washes my hands), I just want to compliment you as having done the right thing in full protecting. By way of unsolicited advice to the involved editors, the best thing they could do is to allow The Wrong Version to sit there a good long time, and devote their energy to other things. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:54, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
]
Yes, please reconsider your full protection of
WP:RS—deserve protection against misinformed reverts. Thanks Geremia (talk) 16:12, 22 September 2011 (UTC)]
Diffs of
- I'm not really sure where the ownership is here; nowhere in our policies is it stated that a user can't promote their RFC on the subject talk page. If it's ongoing and they'd like to move it to the forefront, what's wrong with that? More so, some of your summaries seem inaccurate - in that last diff, you state that Anupam is removing images, yet I only see Anupam adding an image (the peace dove that's at the top of the page). Also, you use repeating examples. m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Well clearly the last diff was wrong. Thanks for the vote of confidence. There are no repeat examples nor inaccurate summaries, just a mistaken copy paste of the second to last diff to the last position as well. I have fixed it. Cheers.
- Using "consensus claims from one RfC to reject changes made to article content
- Same as above. Using the "consensus" bludgeon to get his way. Please note that clearly we ought to edit by consensus, but this consensus is highly disputed, and IMO not there in the first place. The real problem is the way in which Anupam decides to use it like a trump card to remove changes he doesn't like. Ask yourself if all changes post "consensus" have been removed or just the ones Anupam decided he wanted removed.
Master of Puppets do you need more diffs or is this enough?Griswaldo (talk) 23:31, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Well I need more diffs because your "evidence" so far looks like a desperate attempt to incriminate an editor who has been very successful in persuading his colleagues to adopt his proposals. Anupam has presented his proposals, argued the merits and persuaded many editors. Anything you want to tell us about why you're having difficulty doing likewise? – Lionel (talk) 06:02, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- I don't see this is as conclusive evidence, either. And, it should be said - if people are editing against established consensus, then people are free to re-evaluate consensus, but edit-warring against it doesn't make much sense. m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- If not ownership then what is this - [28], [29], [30]? He removes two RfCs started by another editor, and revolving around the question that many of us actually find to be the fundamental question to answer regarding the entry. Then he edit wars to keep these RfCs off the page, claiming again to have some sort of authority stemming from your prior actions. If you aren't willing to do something here I'm going to another administrator and I'm going to ask for your initial "consensus," your strong arm administrating, and your lack of action here to be reviewed as well. Thanks.Griswaldo (talk) 17:08, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Anupam has already apologized for reverting those RfC additions, and we've moved past it. He also didn't claim to have administrative authority, but was waiting for my approval. We've cleared this up, it's not an issue. So no, I'm not going to take any action (as I've said here and on ANI). Now, if you'd like to threaten me and tell me that, since I'm not cooperating with your wills, you'll go to another administrator, that's fine - as I've said, you can seek outside opinions - but remember to keep a cool head, because borderline threats are not appreciated. m.o.p 21:49, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- It was not a threat, "borderline" or otherwise. You are conveniently ignoring a growing number of voices who are all saying the same thing - there is an ownership problem here. The deletion issue has not been "cleared up" as far as I'm concerned. Whenever it is mentioned Anupam insists that he did not "unilaterally" delete the RfCs from the page, which is a blatant distortion, since that is exactly what he did. He continues to act as a policeman at the page, and yes he does continue to cite your authority. Did you bother to read the many diffs I posted above in the second two sections? I will quote three random examples from those I provided for you if you want.
- When he first deleted the two RfCs he wrote: "rv - see discussion with reviewing administrator; approval needed to start another RfC while one is already occurring."
- When he deleted a fact tag that JimWae put into the lede: "rv excessive tagging per talk; tag is already extant in header; do not subvert previous consensus but gain consensus for potential additions per administrative notice"
- When he rejected another recent change to the entry: "accepted edits by User:Jkhwiki; rv removal of longstanding referenced content - see discussion on talk page and gain consensus for action per administrative injunction"
- In talk page comments and in edit summaries he consistently does the same thing. He refers to your authority, either directly or indirectly through your "notice" or your "injunction" as he likes to call it. I never said the claimed to have administrative authority, I said that he's using your authority, by way of your comments, such as the closure of the AfD to bully people. Do you deny that he citing your comments, because if you do then I must have fabricated those quotes. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:32, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
If you say "If you don't do A, then I'm going to go and do B", that's a threat. Anyway, that's not the issue - we've already covered all the issues with the RfC reverting, and Anupam won't do it again. Why keep raising hell over it?
We've already covered everything you bring up. And no, I'm not denying anything. I'm just saying this, and it's very simple: I don't think there has been any blatant ownership here. That's my judgment. If you disagree, again, feel free to raise this with another administrator or on ANI. m.o.p 23:12, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Regarding the new RFC, I still think there has not passed yet too much time since the last discussion about splitting the article. As far as I knew, repeating these sorts of debates (like splitting, deleting, renaming) before a larger amount of time has passed (like 6 months) is usually discouraged. And as others have also argued earlier, even if having multiple RFCs is possible, it's not very useful, and the new RFC seems to discourage further discussion about improving the lead introduction. So preventing multiple RFCs (and also a RFC about an issue debated not too long ago) does not look to me like evidence of bad faith intentions. Cody7777777 (talk) 21:37, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Cody, would you mind linking me to the previous RfC on splitting? m.o.p 21:49, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- The previous attempt to split the article can be found here. Cody7777777 (talk) 21:55, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Response
Yes, it does. Thanks, m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Dear User:Master of Puppets, I just noticed that User:Binksternet started another RfC while a current one is occurring. Is this appropriate? I reverted the addition motioning for one until your response is confirmed. If it is acceptable, then I apologize and will revert my edit. I look forward to your response. With regards, AnupamTalk 15:14, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'll form my reply on ANI. m.o.p 17:12, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- When you do please take into account my comment just above, regarding Anupam's edit warring to remove talk page comments (namely these RfCs) posted by others on the talk page. If you still don't think this is WP:OWN then clearly other administrators are needed here.Griswaldo (talk) 17:15, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Dear User:Griswaldo, how is going to a neutral mediator to address the issue owning the article? I acknowledge that the article is in dispute and as a result, I am asking an administrator for advice in this matter, NOT handling things on my own, as you have done by edit warring. Your WP:OWN allegations have not only been dismissed by this administrator, but by several other users, including, User:Lionelt, User:Cody7777777 and User:NYyankees51. Thanks, AnupamTalk 17:27, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- In reply to Griswaldo: reverting the RfCs was a mistake, but we've cleared that up now. As Anupam has stated at ANI, the intent was not to discourage discussion. If you think my judgment is compromised, you're welcome to seek another administrator's input. m.o.p 21:04, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- And as further evidence of WP:OWN, see this. Anupam adds a comment to everything that anyone else says, as if he/she is the owner of the article and everyone else is a subordinate contributor. This particular instance is pretty benign (although it clutters up the talk page with an unnecessary comment that merely says "I agree"), but I do think that Anupam at least needs to learn how to avoid giving the appearance of thinking he/she owns the article, and to desist from chipping in and saying the same thing over and over again, which almost makes meaningful discussion impossible! SNALWIBMA ( talk - contribs ) 17:31, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- While the input is appreciated, as I've said before, making allegations of ownership without hard evidence isn't going to get us anywhere. Anupam is not stopping others from discussing changes or forming consensus, and that's all that matters - refactoring the talk page or commenting on an issue is not against policy, and I'm not going to tell someone to stop editing because it "looks" like they're doing something wrong. As said above, you're welcome to request another administrator's insight if you wish. m.o.p 21:04, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
COIHi
you've helped me out before, with a conflict of interest problem, so having much more experience than me on wikipedia, I thought I would be bold enough to ask again for help.
Similar problem to last, User_talk:Hobbycraft is editing the HOBBYCRAFT article and making changes that aren't citably right. I think the user name suggest and history suggests a conflict of interest case.
Can you please, speak to them addressing this issue.
Thank you very much for your help.
Markcoulter50 (talk) 22:27, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
- I've blocked that user for username violations. Thanks a lot for letting me know! Keep up the great work, m.o.p 23:00, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkbackcausa sui (talk) 18:47, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Hello. You have a new message at causa sui's talk page. causa sui (talk) 20:54, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Problematic editing on militant atheism
- I hope it's not considered defamatory to repeat the final line: "I merely present the diffs above, and let others draw their own conclusions. Is this a duck? Does it quack? You decide.". Unfortunately, the concerned community no longer has that opportunity. What did you decide on their behalf? Does this duck quack, or not? bobrayner (talk) 15:42, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- It's not your wording, it's the very idea of it. Going to what's allegorically a public place and shouting, "Hey, everybody, this man is a criminal!" is one step below blatantly forming a lynch mob. As I've said, I have no problem with your wording or evidence, just your location of choice. Wikipedia is not, unfortunately, a democracy - letting others draw their conclusions and voice their opinions is not how a sockpuppet investigation works.
- So yes, please don't go restoring any of that section. We're not discussing editors, we're discussing the content they produce. Anything else has a sub-board to deal with it (like WP:SPI).
- Hopefully that clears things up! I'll be happy to answer any more questions should you have them. Cheers, m.o.p 15:48, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Hello User:Bobrayner, I noticed the section you created on the militant atheism talk page. If you do feel the way you do about User:Turnsalso and the anonymous IP Addresses, you can take this up with WP:SPI. Thanks, AnupamTalk 15:52, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
Are you kidding my MoP? Above your write: Going to what's allegorically a public place and shouting, "Hey, everybody, this man is a criminal!" is one step below blatantly forming a lynch mob. AND We're not discussing editors, we're discussing the content they produce. Yet you call this edit by Lionelt "good faith," at WQA? MoP, I would not ask you to agree with me or to like me, but can I please ask you not to insult me with these double standards.Griswaldo (talk) 16:18, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
]
- Griswaldo, I mean no offense when I say this, but I'd appreciate it if you stayed out of discussions which didn't involve you. Also, please don't put words in my mouth. Thanks, m.o.p 16:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I have not put words in your mouth. You said that you would assume good faith about Lionel. If you "assume good faith" it means you assume his edits were in "good faith." If you did not intend that meaning I suggest you reconsider what you wrote. Also, if you want me to "stay out of discussion which don't involve me" then I suggest your first order of business should be to do the same thing yourself. You decided to post at WQA, when there was no mention of you or anything you've done in that thread. Once again, I expect people not to practice double standards. So as long as you cannot show me that you will treat me as you ask to be treated yourself, I will not oblige you. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:21, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Please stop bickering. I'm not quite sure what you're trying to accomplish here. I've already explained what I meant when I said assuming good faith, but I'll explain again: I assumed that Lionelt was not hounding or deliberately haranguing you. I did not say, at any point, that his edit content was good faith, and I've told him not to edit like that again. So please stop accusing me of saying things I haven't said.
- Also, I posted in WQA because, as a mediator in this case and as an administrator, it's my duty to weigh in on administrative noticeboards, especially when the case is an ongoing discussion I've been participating in for three months. It is not your duty to weigh in on discussions on my talk page that don't concern you. I hope the distinction is clear here. m.o.p 20:33, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I think you are confused about something. Content is never good faith. "Editing in good faith" and "good faith edits" refers to the intent of the editor always. It has nothing to do with content. My assumption that you also felt the edits were appropriate comes from the fact that you did not say they weren't appropriate and clearly feel that his intentions were good. If you'd like to set the record straight on that issue you still can. I've asked you twice now to discuss the actual edits that are the focal point of the thread. Also, I moved the thread to ANI, per the suggestion of the editor who marked it "resolved."Griswaldo (talk) 20:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- See Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#User:Lionelt_--_following_my_past_edits_to_drum_up_support_against_me. FYI, I copy pasted the entire discussion because both you and Collect were critical of my initial post and I thought it was the right thing to do to preserve that criticism in the record of the conversation. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:43, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- In reply to your first paragraph: I'm going to give up now, as it seems you're misunderstanding most of what I type, but you're the one who stated that the content was not good faith (as you said, not appropriate), and I agreed - I referred to his intent in replying to you, and said that I assumed good faith in his motives, not his replies. I can't really say that in a clearer way, so my apologies if it's hard to understand. Also, as I've already said, I've left a message for Lionelt about his edits, so clearly I do not feel they're appropriate. m.o.p 20:57, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I, too, find these double standards vexing.
- Which diff is defamatory?
- I had hitherto thought that people on the article talkpage might like to be aware of potential problems with votestacking on the article talkpage (and 3rr evasion, of course). Would it be permitted to add a link to that list of diffs when it's in a different place, or would you consider that defamatory too? bobrayner (talk) 16:23, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- As I said, the information is not defamatory, but the way it's presented is - we have specific processes available to pursue should one feel there are sockpuppets about. However, calling someone out with the intent of informing the community is overstepping your authority and damaging to the accused's character. Also, there's no way a community discussion about whether or not one editor is a sockpuppet can end in anything other than a sockpuppet investigation anyway.
- So, in closing, please don't bring issues like this to the talk page. If you're concerned about votestacking, take it to the appropriate venue - if your concerns are validated, we'll take measures against said puppets. Cheers, m.o.p 16:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I am very disappointed that it's no longer permissible to raise problems with article-editing on the article talkpage. Previous concerns about sockpuppetry were simply ignored; the difference this time is that it's backed by lots of diffs.
- I'm fairly confident that the people concerned have sufficient technical nous to make checkuser draw a blank. And, let's be entirely honest, within minutes of me creating an SPI, an admin of the right persuasion will be getting an email suggesting that an SPI needs their attention. And SPI does not see offsite coordination by a facebook group &c. Finally, any null result at SPI will be used at the article in much the same way as previous administrative decisions have been. So, I do not believe that an SPI will improve either the article, or the encyclopædia as a whole. bobrayner (talk) 17:08, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- If you don't think the pre-existing methods set in place for situations like this are sufficient, you can always raise that concern at the village pump or suggest a policy revision - however, SPI is the venue for these requests, and the only venue. The talk page can not substitute. m.o.p 17:10, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
76.228.226.122Thank you for blocking the anonymous user, who is being counterproductive and rude. (although I think the block should have been one week, but I guess ok at least)
Can you also please try to hide the edit summaries of these edits if possible?
This and
this
Thanks and regards, talk 05:04, 26 September 2011 (UTC)]
- I'll extend the block if this behaviour continues after the block period is over.
- As for the edit summaries, those don't warrant hiding - I apologize for their content, but they don't meet the criteria of what I should remove. It's best just to ignore them for now. Cheers, m.o.p 05:13, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
- Okay, good to know, if I did nothing wrong, no permanent block will be enforced. The IP does not volunteer on WP as an admin and so the disproportionately out of line comments and threats of his should be ignored. --talk 05:19, 26 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Sounds good. We only hide extremely offensive revisions; milder ones stay in the edit history. Thanks again for bringing this to our attention! Cheers, m.o.p 05:31, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
Email
Jasper Deng (talk) 05:29, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
- Reading. talk) 06:00, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Bad Girls Club
- I've blocked Junebea for 2 days for disregarding warnings. m.o.p 20:30, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks for helping :) Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 21:06, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkback
- And again.Griswaldo (talk) 04:24, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
- And again ... but maybe the last. You can settle this question once and for all. See the talk page.Griswaldo (talk) 06:09, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'm sure I'm not alone in wanting to hear your replies to the last responses posed to you at that page. IMO, I don't know why you went down the road you did, but as far as I can tell you're blatantly misrepesenting facts about your own actions when people are brining concerns to you. You might think that since you closed the RfC the matter is settled, but it is not. You're actions have not made my life any more pleasant in the last few days vis-a-vis trying to deal with Anupam's disruption and I think you owe us all answers. So please revisit this thread and deal with the open questions. Thanks.Griswaldo (talk) 02:19, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
- I invite you to stop asking the same question again and again. This would be appreciated. Thanks, m.o.p 02:33, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Block question
- No, I just block obviously bad-faith accounts on sight. Advertising/spam accounts fall under that category. m.o.p 00:37, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Thanks
- Thank you. I've unlocked the article for whatever may come. If I'm needed again, feel free to let me know. Thanks for the kind words again, m.o.p 05:12, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
reminder
- We're still waiting to see if the user understands COI policy (per Ed's question). I'll prod the user and see if they'll answer. talk) 19:20, 30 September 2011 (UTC)]
Nextel logo deleted
- Mmm, good point. What's the link to the logo in question? m.o.p 01:33, 2 October 2011 (UTC)
Support of Sage City SymphonyYou deleted this page before I had a chance to go back in and add the stuff that you wanted to see, including the links within Wikipedia to important composers such as Lou Callabro (who started this orchestra and cites it in his Wikipedia page) and Susan Hurley whose work we premiered (SC is also mentioned in her Wikipedia entry). (Let alone links about the works we have performed.) And we have a web site at www.sagecitysymphony.org, have existed for over 35 yrs and are a significant cultural resource in the Bennington area such that we receive grants from local, statewide and national foundations.
I broke my wrist last weekend and am doing one-handed pecking so it'll take me a few days to get that loaded in. We are going out for a bit now, but I would appreciate your undeleting the page so that I don't have to re-invent the starting part when I go back in tomorrow to add links. Or delete it entirely so that I can start fresh - at this point either would work as long as I can start some serious work on it tomorrow. I am the webmaster by the way, so I do have access to content and more links.
Thank you, Celia Murray — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.228.127.119 (talk) 14:22, 1 October 2011 (UTC)
- It looks like fixed everything up. Best of luck, m.o.p 01:35, 2 October 2011 (UTC)]
Reply on Deterence's talk page
MA
After the beating you took you deserve a cold one--on me! Thanks for being fair and balanced – Lionel (talk) 03:55, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
- Hey, thanks! Glad to help out. :) m.o.p 03:56, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
Deletion of Mau5trap Recordings
--neocharles (talk) 07:33, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Existence does not equal notability - the subject has to be notable to get a Wikipedia page. m.o.p 12:05, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
Questoin re: AIV
- Addendum, actually, I read it very clearly in WP:VANDNOT: "Uploading or using material on Wikipedia in violation of Wikipedia's copyright policies is prohibited, but is not vandalism unless the user does so maliciously or fails to heed warnings." So if a person fails to heed warnings it is vandalism. My mistake here was that I only warned once. --Muhandes (talk) 12:29, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Eh, technically it is vandalism, but the user seems to be trying to improve the Wikipedia - that desire to help is misplaced in this case, as they seem to think that using copyrighted content is actually better. Weird. For most cases, yes, you should report copyvio to AIV - as long as they've been warned sufficiently. m.o.p 12:42, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- OK, he now did it again and the time stamp is after your last warning. Is it vandalism now? --Muhandes (talk) 12:32, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Yeah, if they're outright ignoring warnings. I've blocked for three days. m.o.p 12:40, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
Classmusic
- Oh, I know. But if somebody's lied to my face about using another account - and to other editors working on the article - I'm not about to let them go without a repercussion or two. I'd like Almost-instinct and Voceditnore to look over the article and fix up anything shifty. Also, I'd like Classmusic to respond to my warning, instead of blanking it and ignoring like they have to the above-named editors.
- So, in short, I know that COI doesn't bar editing, but it's enough of a concern that, given the user's recent behaviour, I'll stop them from doing anything until we've figured things out. This isn't too rouge-y, is it? I didn't hear that. Perhaps he is unaware of the sockpuppet investigation findings. Anyhow it seems that DeltaQuad has also blocked the Classmusic account. I left a note on his page about using the unblock template, but re-iterated that he needs to read the COI and Autobiography guidelines and stick to them scrupulously, if he gets unblocked. In the Opera and Classical Music WikiProjects, we get a lot of articles for performers, ensembles, etc. created by their agents and PR people, and often themselves. In my experience, the best I can hope for after one of these tussles is that they'll edit their article according to the guidelines in future. I have yet to find a single one who has ever contributed anything else to Wikipedia. Their only interest in the project is as a PR tool. Having said that, at least it results (after much red-pencilling from other editors) in one new article on a notable subject that we didn't have before and in a small way redresses the pop culture systemic bias here. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 13:40, 5 October 2011 (UTC)]
Danish election
- Never mind, it's been pulled by another admin. All the best, Jenks24 (talk) 11:03, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry about that! I was busy all day and didn't get your message until now. Thanks for letting me know, though! Cheers, m.o.p 19:51, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
3RRHey there! :)
Well WP:CRYSTAL has wined down, however, there's currently a
The Bad Girls Club (season 7). I have notified the two users [32], [33]. The evidence can be found here. They are having an edit-conflict on how the "Duration of cast" should be presented. Since there's no rules regarding anything like that, and it was made up about a year ago, I couldn't warned them to stop their e/c with anything except the 3RR rule. Maybe they need an admin to tell them to stop, so that's why I came to you :) Thanks, Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 01:17, 6 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Temporary page protection requested. Calabe1992 (talk) 01:29, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
Ashleyleggat404
- You're fully right in that the blanking policy covers indefinite blocks. I've removed the user's talk page rights as a result. Thanks again! m.o.p 00:28, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkback
Moderation
- If you look into this please consider whether Anupam's actions on the talk page and the entry itself are violations of WP:OWN. He's been driving off those he disagrees with by bludgening them to death with argument and heavily policing the entry claiming that there is a consensus written in stone despite many dissenting voices. Others have taken to simply calling him "the article's owner." I have had enough of this behavior personally and left him a message about it on his talk page. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:52, 20 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Dear User:Master of Puppets, the above user has misrepresented the occurrences at the article. I started another Introduction discussion at the article's talk page but User:Griswaldo has chosen to edit war over a second NPOV tag, despite the fact that one already exists in the article. He has done so despite the fact that the Introduction is being discussed in a peaceful manner at the talk page, in violation of your injunction: "We've only got consensus on this proposed versions (and loose consensus at that) - please do not attempt to subvert said consensus by making undiscussed changes." I have posted a message on his talk page about this behaviour. Nevertheless, I also do not wish to argue with the user personally and would prefer if you could go back to moderating the discussion between the two parties at the talk page. Thanks for taking the time to read this message. With regards, AnupamTalk 20:58, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- His "injunction?" Adding a neutrality tag to a specific sentence which an editor disputes the neutrality of is hardly "subverting the consensus by making undiscussed changes." Please stop wikilawyering to get your way. There is a growing consensus against your position regarding this article in general as well, despite your aggressive policing of the entry and the talk page. See ]
- I just thought that I would mention that User:Griswaldo, after seeing this message, just now decided to comment in the discussion rather than edit war against consensus further. Thanks for taking the time to read this message. With regards, AnupamTalk 21:51, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- "Edit war against consensus further?" My comment there has nothing to do with your message here. I've made three total edits to this entry ever. One was a copy edit in June, another was reverting an IP vandal, and the third was the revert of your Ownership edit. Please do not insinuate that I'm a edit warrior on this page. It is disingenuous.Griswaldo (talk) 22:08, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Thank you all for approaching me with your concerns.
- Obviously, I do not support Anupam - this is because I'm remaining a neutral third party, and, therefore, can't take sides. However, Griswaldo: please keep in mind that I did ask for all discussion to take place on the talk page. Why not just add your complaints to the talk page? It would have been much easier to discuss.
- I do agree that adding a NPOV tag, while slightly redundant, isn't horrible, but your intent seems to have been to stir discussion on that particular section, discussion that would be much more appropriate on the talk page.
- As for your and Snalwibma's concerns of Anupam trying to 'own' the article, I'm curious as to what you two mean; what 'delusions'?
- Also, Griswaldo, I don't think Anupam meant to insinuate you are an edit warrior (though this is just my take) - rather, they wanted to add the note that you've weighed in on discussion. m.o.p 22:10, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- your intent seems to have been to stir discussion on that particular section - No that's incorrect. I didn't add this tag, I simply reverted Anupam's attempt to own the page when he removed it. I agreed with JimWae's addition of the tag and found Anupam's removal to be unwarranted and a display of ownership.Griswaldo (talk) 22:16, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Note that, for all intents and purposes, reverting somebody is adding whatever is included in your edit, regardless of who put it there first. You revert a removal, you're agreeing with the edition you're reverting to - simple.
- And, if you agreed with JimWae, then we go back to what I was saying earlier - say so on the talk page. Two of you agree? Great! That's closer to consensus. But it means nothing if you express your support by reverting removals.
- Again, as I've asked multiple times, please stop saying that Anupam is owning anything without giving me evidence of it first. m.o.p 22:22, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Dear User:Master of Puppets, thank you for your reply to all of us. The reason User:Snalwibma stated that I was attempting to "own" the article was because I reverted an undiscussed removal from the article, which not only myself, but two other users objected to. In fact, two anonymous IP Addresses also reverted User:Snalwibma. I was open to compromise on the issue and stated that I would accept User:Turnsalso's compromise on the issue. I kindly request you to look at that discussion yourself and get an honest reading of it. Also, the only reason I removed the second NPOV tag was because there was already one present, which I did not remove. I only reverted the addition of a second NPOV tag once and even explained myself on the talk page. When I went to the talk page, I found rude accusations and an anti-collaborative spirit, despite the fact that I have been nothing but polite. I hope this helps. With regards, AnupamTalk 22:25, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry - I know I should not rise to the bait, but I have to object to the comment "The reason User:Snalwibma stated that I was attempting to 'own' the article was because I reverted an undiscussed removal ..." How dare Anupam presume to know what is in my mind! The reason I describe Anupam's attitude to the article as one of ownership is because that is how s/he behaves - "policing" every edit, pronouncing on whether s/he "accepts" or "rejects" it, peremptorily reverting anything s/he does not like, without discussion, presuming to know others' motives, and judging them as fit/unfit to contribute to the article. This has been going on for weeks, if not months. It is impossible to discuss the content of the article, let alone improve the text, because everything is filtered through the approval/disapproval of the article's self-appointed guardian, Anupam. tendentious or disruptive when they bring up certain issues, even when they are clearly in the majority. That is not collaborative. I stopped editing the article heavily because of those issues. I don't have any delusions that my opinion is worth more than anyone else's here, but I would think that the large number of established, experienced editors who are all saying there's a problem, would indicate something. — Jess· Δ♥ 19:45, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
Please reconsider your full protection of Militant atheist
- In case you didn't notice, I asked that people think twice about pointing fingers at each other. If you'd like to start a sockpuppetry investigation, let me know, and we can take that avenue - however, don't accuse other editors of ownership without substance. If you think Anupam is trying to own things, give me something. Diffs, edits, anything. I'll check it out for you, but right now, baseless accusations are not what I'm looking for.
- Also, notice that I protected the article with your edit being the last one. How is that validating the very person you've been reverting?
- The protection will stay until consensus is reached. m.o.p 22:19, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Because protection is what he wants quite clearly. He's stalling conversation and shouting down people on the talk page, where, if you have a look, you'll see he's clearly in the minority. Because of your "injunction" as he calls it, he also claims that no matter how many people agree with a certain change it is illegitimate. I'll be happy to gather some diffs, but my first message to you above was to please look into the situation carefully before acting on it. Did you do that and come to the conclusion that I'm wrong or did you not head that request? Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:29, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Yes, I did heed your request. I don't see any ownership behaviour from Anupam, though, being involved in multiple disputes, I didn't have the time to read every last word on the page, so you're free to provide evidence. However, from what I can see, Anupam's last proposal was supported by the majority - not to count (and I don't mean to imply that I decide where consensus lies by looking at pure numbers), but from looking at pure supports versus opposes, eight people (nine including Anupam) support while four oppose. How does that make Anupam's views a minority? m.o.p 22:37, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- It depends on what view you are talking about. The current RFC on the introduction is something that most people don't even want to engage because most people think this very entry should be split up and integrated into other entries. I reluctantly engaged the RfC just now myself. The last time the more serious question about the entry was asked, several of the new commentators were not around, and there was "no consensus" found because the opposing side was chalk full of SPAs and editors with a view that is outright hostile to atheism (which is a legitimate view to hold, but it is a minority view). Let me find you some diffs.Griswaldo (talk) 22:43, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- User:Griswaldo, that is exactly the issue: you do not want to collaborate with other users on the talk page, which is why you were reluctant to participate in the current RfC. Moreover, there were several SPA's on the side of the opposition as well, including WP:NPOV. In addition, the split was again recently discussed and the specific case to do so was refuted by several editors. As such, there was no consensus for it. I hope this helps. With regards, AnupamTalk 22:52, 20 September 2011 (UTC)]
- No. You are trying to write an article that violates WP:SYNTH because it conflates New Atheism with oppressive communist regimes and their histories of violence. That's hardly NPOV. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:59, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
Hi m.o.p., as someone who occasionally looks at that page (and then washes my hands), I just want to compliment you as having done the right thing in full protecting. By way of unsolicited advice to the involved editors, the best thing they could do is to allow The Wrong Version to sit there a good long time, and devote their energy to other things. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:54, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
]
Yes, please reconsider your full protection of
WP:RS—deserve protection against misinformed reverts. Thanks Geremia (talk) 16:12, 22 September 2011 (UTC)]
Diffs of
- I'm not really sure where the ownership is here; nowhere in our policies is it stated that a user can't promote their RFC on the subject talk page. If it's ongoing and they'd like to move it to the forefront, what's wrong with that? More so, some of your summaries seem inaccurate - in that last diff, you state that Anupam is removing images, yet I only see Anupam adding an image (the peace dove that's at the top of the page). Also, you use repeating examples. m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Well clearly the last diff was wrong. Thanks for the vote of confidence. There are no repeat examples nor inaccurate summaries, just a mistaken copy paste of the second to last diff to the last position as well. I have fixed it. Cheers.
- Using "consensus claims from one RfC to reject changes made to article content
- Same as above. Using the "consensus" bludgeon to get his way. Please note that clearly we ought to edit by consensus, but this consensus is highly disputed, and IMO not there in the first place. The real problem is the way in which Anupam decides to use it like a trump card to remove changes he doesn't like. Ask yourself if all changes post "consensus" have been removed or just the ones Anupam decided he wanted removed.
Master of Puppets do you need more diffs or is this enough?Griswaldo (talk) 23:31, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Well I need more diffs because your "evidence" so far looks like a desperate attempt to incriminate an editor who has been very successful in persuading his colleagues to adopt his proposals. Anupam has presented his proposals, argued the merits and persuaded many editors. Anything you want to tell us about why you're having difficulty doing likewise? – Lionel (talk) 06:02, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- I don't see this is as conclusive evidence, either. And, it should be said - if people are editing against established consensus, then people are free to re-evaluate consensus, but edit-warring against it doesn't make much sense. m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- If not ownership then what is this - [28], [29], [30]? He removes two RfCs started by another editor, and revolving around the question that many of us actually find to be the fundamental question to answer regarding the entry. Then he edit wars to keep these RfCs off the page, claiming again to have some sort of authority stemming from your prior actions. If you aren't willing to do something here I'm going to another administrator and I'm going to ask for your initial "consensus," your strong arm administrating, and your lack of action here to be reviewed as well. Thanks.Griswaldo (talk) 17:08, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Anupam has already apologized for reverting those RfC additions, and we've moved past it. He also didn't claim to have administrative authority, but was waiting for my approval. We've cleared this up, it's not an issue. So no, I'm not going to take any action (as I've said here and on ANI). Now, if you'd like to threaten me and tell me that, since I'm not cooperating with your wills, you'll go to another administrator, that's fine - as I've said, you can seek outside opinions - but remember to keep a cool head, because borderline threats are not appreciated. m.o.p 21:49, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- It was not a threat, "borderline" or otherwise. You are conveniently ignoring a growing number of voices who are all saying the same thing - there is an ownership problem here. The deletion issue has not been "cleared up" as far as I'm concerned. Whenever it is mentioned Anupam insists that he did not "unilaterally" delete the RfCs from the page, which is a blatant distortion, since that is exactly what he did. He continues to act as a policeman at the page, and yes he does continue to cite your authority. Did you bother to read the many diffs I posted above in the second two sections? I will quote three random examples from those I provided for you if you want.
- When he first deleted the two RfCs he wrote: "rv - see discussion with reviewing administrator; approval needed to start another RfC while one is already occurring."
- When he deleted a fact tag that JimWae put into the lede: "rv excessive tagging per talk; tag is already extant in header; do not subvert previous consensus but gain consensus for potential additions per administrative notice"
- When he rejected another recent change to the entry: "accepted edits by User:Jkhwiki; rv removal of longstanding referenced content - see discussion on talk page and gain consensus for action per administrative injunction"
- In talk page comments and in edit summaries he consistently does the same thing. He refers to your authority, either directly or indirectly through your "notice" or your "injunction" as he likes to call it. I never said the claimed to have administrative authority, I said that he's using your authority, by way of your comments, such as the closure of the AfD to bully people. Do you deny that he citing your comments, because if you do then I must have fabricated those quotes. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:32, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
If you say "If you don't do A, then I'm going to go and do B", that's a threat. Anyway, that's not the issue - we've already covered all the issues with the RfC reverting, and Anupam won't do it again. Why keep raising hell over it?
We've already covered everything you bring up. And no, I'm not denying anything. I'm just saying this, and it's very simple: I don't think there has been any blatant ownership here. That's my judgment. If you disagree, again, feel free to raise this with another administrator or on ANI. m.o.p 23:12, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Regarding the new RFC, I still think there has not passed yet too much time since the last discussion about splitting the article. As far as I knew, repeating these sorts of debates (like splitting, deleting, renaming) before a larger amount of time has passed (like 6 months) is usually discouraged. And as others have also argued earlier, even if having multiple RFCs is possible, it's not very useful, and the new RFC seems to discourage further discussion about improving the lead introduction. So preventing multiple RFCs (and also a RFC about an issue debated not too long ago) does not look to me like evidence of bad faith intentions. Cody7777777 (talk) 21:37, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Cody, would you mind linking me to the previous RfC on splitting? m.o.p 21:49, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- The previous attempt to split the article can be found here. Cody7777777 (talk) 21:55, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Response
Yes, it does. Thanks, m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Dear User:Master of Puppets, I just noticed that User:Binksternet started another RfC while a current one is occurring. Is this appropriate? I reverted the addition motioning for one until your response is confirmed. If it is acceptable, then I apologize and will revert my edit. I look forward to your response. With regards, AnupamTalk 15:14, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'll form my reply on ANI. m.o.p 17:12, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- When you do please take into account my comment just above, regarding Anupam's edit warring to remove talk page comments (namely these RfCs) posted by others on the talk page. If you still don't think this is WP:OWN then clearly other administrators are needed here.Griswaldo (talk) 17:15, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Dear User:Griswaldo, how is going to a neutral mediator to address the issue owning the article? I acknowledge that the article is in dispute and as a result, I am asking an administrator for advice in this matter, NOT handling things on my own, as you have done by edit warring. Your WP:OWN allegations have not only been dismissed by this administrator, but by several other users, including, User:Lionelt, User:Cody7777777 and User:NYyankees51. Thanks, AnupamTalk 17:27, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- In reply to Griswaldo: reverting the RfCs was a mistake, but we've cleared that up now. As Anupam has stated at ANI, the intent was not to discourage discussion. If you think my judgment is compromised, you're welcome to seek another administrator's input. m.o.p 21:04, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- And as further evidence of WP:OWN, see this. Anupam adds a comment to everything that anyone else says, as if he/she is the owner of the article and everyone else is a subordinate contributor. This particular instance is pretty benign (although it clutters up the talk page with an unnecessary comment that merely says "I agree"), but I do think that Anupam at least needs to learn how to avoid giving the appearance of thinking he/she owns the article, and to desist from chipping in and saying the same thing over and over again, which almost makes meaningful discussion impossible! SNALWIBMA ( talk - contribs ) 17:31, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- While the input is appreciated, as I've said before, making allegations of ownership without hard evidence isn't going to get us anywhere. Anupam is not stopping others from discussing changes or forming consensus, and that's all that matters - refactoring the talk page or commenting on an issue is not against policy, and I'm not going to tell someone to stop editing because it "looks" like they're doing something wrong. As said above, you're welcome to request another administrator's insight if you wish. m.o.p 21:04, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
COIHi
you've helped me out before, with a conflict of interest problem, so having much more experience than me on wikipedia, I thought I would be bold enough to ask again for help.
Similar problem to last, User_talk:Hobbycraft is editing the HOBBYCRAFT article and making changes that aren't citably right. I think the user name suggest and history suggests a conflict of interest case.
Can you please, speak to them addressing this issue.
Thank you very much for your help.
Markcoulter50 (talk) 22:27, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
- I've blocked that user for username violations. Thanks a lot for letting me know! Keep up the great work, m.o.p 23:00, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkbackcausa sui (talk) 18:47, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Hello. You have a new message at causa sui's talk page. causa sui (talk) 20:54, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Problematic editing on militant atheism
- I hope it's not considered defamatory to repeat the final line: "I merely present the diffs above, and let others draw their own conclusions. Is this a duck? Does it quack? You decide.". Unfortunately, the concerned community no longer has that opportunity. What did you decide on their behalf? Does this duck quack, or not? bobrayner (talk) 15:42, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- It's not your wording, it's the very idea of it. Going to what's allegorically a public place and shouting, "Hey, everybody, this man is a criminal!" is one step below blatantly forming a lynch mob. As I've said, I have no problem with your wording or evidence, just your location of choice. Wikipedia is not, unfortunately, a democracy - letting others draw their conclusions and voice their opinions is not how a sockpuppet investigation works.
- So yes, please don't go restoring any of that section. We're not discussing editors, we're discussing the content they produce. Anything else has a sub-board to deal with it (like WP:SPI).
- Hopefully that clears things up! I'll be happy to answer any more questions should you have them. Cheers, m.o.p 15:48, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Hello User:Bobrayner, I noticed the section you created on the militant atheism talk page. If you do feel the way you do about User:Turnsalso and the anonymous IP Addresses, you can take this up with WP:SPI. Thanks, AnupamTalk 15:52, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
Are you kidding my MoP? Above your write: Going to what's allegorically a public place and shouting, "Hey, everybody, this man is a criminal!" is one step below blatantly forming a lynch mob. AND We're not discussing editors, we're discussing the content they produce. Yet you call this edit by Lionelt "good faith," at WQA? MoP, I would not ask you to agree with me or to like me, but can I please ask you not to insult me with these double standards.Griswaldo (talk) 16:18, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
]
- Griswaldo, I mean no offense when I say this, but I'd appreciate it if you stayed out of discussions which didn't involve you. Also, please don't put words in my mouth. Thanks, m.o.p 16:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I have not put words in your mouth. You said that you would assume good faith about Lionel. If you "assume good faith" it means you assume his edits were in "good faith." If you did not intend that meaning I suggest you reconsider what you wrote. Also, if you want me to "stay out of discussion which don't involve me" then I suggest your first order of business should be to do the same thing yourself. You decided to post at WQA, when there was no mention of you or anything you've done in that thread. Once again, I expect people not to practice double standards. So as long as you cannot show me that you will treat me as you ask to be treated yourself, I will not oblige you. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:21, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Please stop bickering. I'm not quite sure what you're trying to accomplish here. I've already explained what I meant when I said assuming good faith, but I'll explain again: I assumed that Lionelt was not hounding or deliberately haranguing you. I did not say, at any point, that his edit content was good faith, and I've told him not to edit like that again. So please stop accusing me of saying things I haven't said.
- Also, I posted in WQA because, as a mediator in this case and as an administrator, it's my duty to weigh in on administrative noticeboards, especially when the case is an ongoing discussion I've been participating in for three months. It is not your duty to weigh in on discussions on my talk page that don't concern you. I hope the distinction is clear here. m.o.p 20:33, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I think you are confused about something. Content is never good faith. "Editing in good faith" and "good faith edits" refers to the intent of the editor always. It has nothing to do with content. My assumption that you also felt the edits were appropriate comes from the fact that you did not say they weren't appropriate and clearly feel that his intentions were good. If you'd like to set the record straight on that issue you still can. I've asked you twice now to discuss the actual edits that are the focal point of the thread. Also, I moved the thread to ANI, per the suggestion of the editor who marked it "resolved."Griswaldo (talk) 20:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- See Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#User:Lionelt_--_following_my_past_edits_to_drum_up_support_against_me. FYI, I copy pasted the entire discussion because both you and Collect were critical of my initial post and I thought it was the right thing to do to preserve that criticism in the record of the conversation. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:43, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- In reply to your first paragraph: I'm going to give up now, as it seems you're misunderstanding most of what I type, but you're the one who stated that the content was not good faith (as you said, not appropriate), and I agreed - I referred to his intent in replying to you, and said that I assumed good faith in his motives, not his replies. I can't really say that in a clearer way, so my apologies if it's hard to understand. Also, as I've already said, I've left a message for Lionelt about his edits, so clearly I do not feel they're appropriate. m.o.p 20:57, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I, too, find these double standards vexing.
- Which diff is defamatory?
- I had hitherto thought that people on the article talkpage might like to be aware of potential problems with votestacking on the article talkpage (and 3rr evasion, of course). Would it be permitted to add a link to that list of diffs when it's in a different place, or would you consider that defamatory too? bobrayner (talk) 16:23, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- As I said, the information is not defamatory, but the way it's presented is - we have specific processes available to pursue should one feel there are sockpuppets about. However, calling someone out with the intent of informing the community is overstepping your authority and damaging to the accused's character. Also, there's no way a community discussion about whether or not one editor is a sockpuppet can end in anything other than a sockpuppet investigation anyway.
- So, in closing, please don't bring issues like this to the talk page. If you're concerned about votestacking, take it to the appropriate venue - if your concerns are validated, we'll take measures against said puppets. Cheers, m.o.p 16:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I am very disappointed that it's no longer permissible to raise problems with article-editing on the article talkpage. Previous concerns about sockpuppetry were simply ignored; the difference this time is that it's backed by lots of diffs.
- I'm fairly confident that the people concerned have sufficient technical nous to make checkuser draw a blank. And, let's be entirely honest, within minutes of me creating an SPI, an admin of the right persuasion will be getting an email suggesting that an SPI needs their attention. And SPI does not see offsite coordination by a facebook group &c. Finally, any null result at SPI will be used at the article in much the same way as previous administrative decisions have been. So, I do not believe that an SPI will improve either the article, or the encyclopædia as a whole. bobrayner (talk) 17:08, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- If you don't think the pre-existing methods set in place for situations like this are sufficient, you can always raise that concern at the village pump or suggest a policy revision - however, SPI is the venue for these requests, and the only venue. The talk page can not substitute. m.o.p 17:10, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
76.228.226.122Thank you for blocking the anonymous user, who is being counterproductive and rude. (although I think the block should have been one week, but I guess ok at least)
Can you also please try to hide the edit summaries of these edits if possible?
This and
this
Thanks and regards, talk 05:04, 26 September 2011 (UTC)]
- I'll extend the block if this behaviour continues after the block period is over.
- As for the edit summaries, those don't warrant hiding - I apologize for their content, but they don't meet the criteria of what I should remove. It's best just to ignore them for now. Cheers, m.o.p 05:13, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
- Okay, good to know, if I did nothing wrong, no permanent block will be enforced. The IP does not volunteer on WP as an admin and so the disproportionately out of line comments and threats of his should be ignored. --talk 05:19, 26 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Sounds good. We only hide extremely offensive revisions; milder ones stay in the edit history. Thanks again for bringing this to our attention! Cheers, m.o.p 05:31, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
Email
Jasper Deng (talk) 05:29, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
- Reading. talk) 06:00, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Bad Girls Club
- I've blocked Junebea for 2 days for disregarding warnings. m.o.p 20:30, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks for helping :) Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 21:06, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkback
- And again.Griswaldo (talk) 04:24, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
- And again ... but maybe the last. You can settle this question once and for all. See the talk page.Griswaldo (talk) 06:09, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'm sure I'm not alone in wanting to hear your replies to the last responses posed to you at that page. IMO, I don't know why you went down the road you did, but as far as I can tell you're blatantly misrepesenting facts about your own actions when people are brining concerns to you. You might think that since you closed the RfC the matter is settled, but it is not. You're actions have not made my life any more pleasant in the last few days vis-a-vis trying to deal with Anupam's disruption and I think you owe us all answers. So please revisit this thread and deal with the open questions. Thanks.Griswaldo (talk) 02:19, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
- I invite you to stop asking the same question again and again. This would be appreciated. Thanks, m.o.p 02:33, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Block question
- No, I just block obviously bad-faith accounts on sight. Advertising/spam accounts fall under that category. m.o.p 00:37, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Thanks
- Thank you. I've unlocked the article for whatever may come. If I'm needed again, feel free to let me know. Thanks for the kind words again, m.o.p 05:12, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
reminder
- We're still waiting to see if the user understands COI policy (per Ed's question). I'll prod the user and see if they'll answer. talk) 19:20, 30 September 2011 (UTC)]
Nextel logo deleted
- Mmm, good point. What's the link to the logo in question? m.o.p 01:33, 2 October 2011 (UTC)
Support of Sage City SymphonyYou deleted this page before I had a chance to go back in and add the stuff that you wanted to see, including the links within Wikipedia to important composers such as Lou Callabro (who started this orchestra and cites it in his Wikipedia page) and Susan Hurley whose work we premiered (SC is also mentioned in her Wikipedia entry). (Let alone links about the works we have performed.) And we have a web site at www.sagecitysymphony.org, have existed for over 35 yrs and are a significant cultural resource in the Bennington area such that we receive grants from local, statewide and national foundations.
I broke my wrist last weekend and am doing one-handed pecking so it'll take me a few days to get that loaded in. We are going out for a bit now, but I would appreciate your undeleting the page so that I don't have to re-invent the starting part when I go back in tomorrow to add links. Or delete it entirely so that I can start fresh - at this point either would work as long as I can start some serious work on it tomorrow. I am the webmaster by the way, so I do have access to content and more links.
Thank you, Celia Murray — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.228.127.119 (talk) 14:22, 1 October 2011 (UTC)
- It looks like fixed everything up. Best of luck, m.o.p 01:35, 2 October 2011 (UTC)]
Reply on Deterence's talk page
MA
After the beating you took you deserve a cold one--on me! Thanks for being fair and balanced – Lionel (talk) 03:55, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
- Hey, thanks! Glad to help out. :) m.o.p 03:56, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
Deletion of Mau5trap Recordings
--neocharles (talk) 07:33, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Existence does not equal notability - the subject has to be notable to get a Wikipedia page. m.o.p 12:05, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
Questoin re: AIV
- Addendum, actually, I read it very clearly in WP:VANDNOT: "Uploading or using material on Wikipedia in violation of Wikipedia's copyright policies is prohibited, but is not vandalism unless the user does so maliciously or fails to heed warnings." So if a person fails to heed warnings it is vandalism. My mistake here was that I only warned once. --Muhandes (talk) 12:29, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Eh, technically it is vandalism, but the user seems to be trying to improve the Wikipedia - that desire to help is misplaced in this case, as they seem to think that using copyrighted content is actually better. Weird. For most cases, yes, you should report copyvio to AIV - as long as they've been warned sufficiently. m.o.p 12:42, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- OK, he now did it again and the time stamp is after your last warning. Is it vandalism now? --Muhandes (talk) 12:32, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Yeah, if they're outright ignoring warnings. I've blocked for three days. m.o.p 12:40, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
Classmusic
- Oh, I know. But if somebody's lied to my face about using another account - and to other editors working on the article - I'm not about to let them go without a repercussion or two. I'd like Almost-instinct and Voceditnore to look over the article and fix up anything shifty. Also, I'd like Classmusic to respond to my warning, instead of blanking it and ignoring like they have to the above-named editors.
- So, in short, I know that COI doesn't bar editing, but it's enough of a concern that, given the user's recent behaviour, I'll stop them from doing anything until we've figured things out. This isn't too rouge-y, is it? I didn't hear that. Perhaps he is unaware of the sockpuppet investigation findings. Anyhow it seems that DeltaQuad has also blocked the Classmusic account. I left a note on his page about using the unblock template, but re-iterated that he needs to read the COI and Autobiography guidelines and stick to them scrupulously, if he gets unblocked. In the Opera and Classical Music WikiProjects, we get a lot of articles for performers, ensembles, etc. created by their agents and PR people, and often themselves. In my experience, the best I can hope for after one of these tussles is that they'll edit their article according to the guidelines in future. I have yet to find a single one who has ever contributed anything else to Wikipedia. Their only interest in the project is as a PR tool. Having said that, at least it results (after much red-pencilling from other editors) in one new article on a notable subject that we didn't have before and in a small way redresses the pop culture systemic bias here. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 13:40, 5 October 2011 (UTC)]
Danish election
- Never mind, it's been pulled by another admin. All the best, Jenks24 (talk) 11:03, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry about that! I was busy all day and didn't get your message until now. Thanks for letting me know, though! Cheers, m.o.p 19:51, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
3RRHey there! :)
Well WP:CRYSTAL has wined down, however, there's currently a
The Bad Girls Club (season 7). I have notified the two users [32], [33]. The evidence can be found here. They are having an edit-conflict on how the "Duration of cast" should be presented. Since there's no rules regarding anything like that, and it was made up about a year ago, I couldn't warned them to stop their e/c with anything except the 3RR rule. Maybe they need an admin to tell them to stop, so that's why I came to you :) Thanks, Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 01:17, 6 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Temporary page protection requested. Calabe1992 (talk) 01:29, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
Talkback
Moderation
- If you look into this please consider whether Anupam's actions on the talk page and the entry itself are violations of WP:OWN. He's been driving off those he disagrees with by bludgening them to death with argument and heavily policing the entry claiming that there is a consensus written in stone despite many dissenting voices. Others have taken to simply calling him "the article's owner." I have had enough of this behavior personally and left him a message about it on his talk page. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:52, 20 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Dear User:Master of Puppets, the above user has misrepresented the occurrences at the article. I started another Introduction discussion at the article's talk page but User:Griswaldo has chosen to edit war over a second NPOV tag, despite the fact that one already exists in the article. He has done so despite the fact that the Introduction is being discussed in a peaceful manner at the talk page, in violation of your injunction: "We've only got consensus on this proposed versions (and loose consensus at that) - please do not attempt to subvert said consensus by making undiscussed changes." I have posted a message on his talk page about this behaviour. Nevertheless, I also do not wish to argue with the user personally and would prefer if you could go back to moderating the discussion between the two parties at the talk page. Thanks for taking the time to read this message. With regards, AnupamTalk 20:58, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- His "injunction?" Adding a neutrality tag to a specific sentence which an editor disputes the neutrality of is hardly "subverting the consensus by making undiscussed changes." Please stop wikilawyering to get your way. There is a growing consensus against your position regarding this article in general as well, despite your aggressive policing of the entry and the talk page. See ]
- I just thought that I would mention that User:Griswaldo, after seeing this message, just now decided to comment in the discussion rather than edit war against consensus further. Thanks for taking the time to read this message. With regards, AnupamTalk 21:51, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- "Edit war against consensus further?" My comment there has nothing to do with your message here. I've made three total edits to this entry ever. One was a copy edit in June, another was reverting an IP vandal, and the third was the revert of your Ownership edit. Please do not insinuate that I'm a edit warrior on this page. It is disingenuous.Griswaldo (talk) 22:08, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Thank you all for approaching me with your concerns.
- Obviously, I do not support Anupam - this is because I'm remaining a neutral third party, and, therefore, can't take sides. However, Griswaldo: please keep in mind that I did ask for all discussion to take place on the talk page. Why not just add your complaints to the talk page? It would have been much easier to discuss.
- I do agree that adding a NPOV tag, while slightly redundant, isn't horrible, but your intent seems to have been to stir discussion on that particular section, discussion that would be much more appropriate on the talk page.
- As for your and Snalwibma's concerns of Anupam trying to 'own' the article, I'm curious as to what you two mean; what 'delusions'?
- Also, Griswaldo, I don't think Anupam meant to insinuate you are an edit warrior (though this is just my take) - rather, they wanted to add the note that you've weighed in on discussion. m.o.p 22:10, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- your intent seems to have been to stir discussion on that particular section - No that's incorrect. I didn't add this tag, I simply reverted Anupam's attempt to own the page when he removed it. I agreed with JimWae's addition of the tag and found Anupam's removal to be unwarranted and a display of ownership.Griswaldo (talk) 22:16, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Note that, for all intents and purposes, reverting somebody is adding whatever is included in your edit, regardless of who put it there first. You revert a removal, you're agreeing with the edition you're reverting to - simple.
- And, if you agreed with JimWae, then we go back to what I was saying earlier - say so on the talk page. Two of you agree? Great! That's closer to consensus. But it means nothing if you express your support by reverting removals.
- Again, as I've asked multiple times, please stop saying that Anupam is owning anything without giving me evidence of it first. m.o.p 22:22, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Dear User:Master of Puppets, thank you for your reply to all of us. The reason User:Snalwibma stated that I was attempting to "own" the article was because I reverted an undiscussed removal from the article, which not only myself, but two other users objected to. In fact, two anonymous IP Addresses also reverted User:Snalwibma. I was open to compromise on the issue and stated that I would accept User:Turnsalso's compromise on the issue. I kindly request you to look at that discussion yourself and get an honest reading of it. Also, the only reason I removed the second NPOV tag was because there was already one present, which I did not remove. I only reverted the addition of a second NPOV tag once and even explained myself on the talk page. When I went to the talk page, I found rude accusations and an anti-collaborative spirit, despite the fact that I have been nothing but polite. I hope this helps. With regards, AnupamTalk 22:25, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry - I know I should not rise to the bait, but I have to object to the comment "The reason User:Snalwibma stated that I was attempting to 'own' the article was because I reverted an undiscussed removal ..." How dare Anupam presume to know what is in my mind! The reason I describe Anupam's attitude to the article as one of ownership is because that is how s/he behaves - "policing" every edit, pronouncing on whether s/he "accepts" or "rejects" it, peremptorily reverting anything s/he does not like, without discussion, presuming to know others' motives, and judging them as fit/unfit to contribute to the article. This has been going on for weeks, if not months. It is impossible to discuss the content of the article, let alone improve the text, because everything is filtered through the approval/disapproval of the article's self-appointed guardian, Anupam. tendentious or disruptive when they bring up certain issues, even when they are clearly in the majority. That is not collaborative. I stopped editing the article heavily because of those issues. I don't have any delusions that my opinion is worth more than anyone else's here, but I would think that the large number of established, experienced editors who are all saying there's a problem, would indicate something. — Jess· Δ♥ 19:45, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
Please reconsider your full protection of Militant atheist
- In case you didn't notice, I asked that people think twice about pointing fingers at each other. If you'd like to start a sockpuppetry investigation, let me know, and we can take that avenue - however, don't accuse other editors of ownership without substance. If you think Anupam is trying to own things, give me something. Diffs, edits, anything. I'll check it out for you, but right now, baseless accusations are not what I'm looking for.
- Also, notice that I protected the article with your edit being the last one. How is that validating the very person you've been reverting?
- The protection will stay until consensus is reached. m.o.p 22:19, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Because protection is what he wants quite clearly. He's stalling conversation and shouting down people on the talk page, where, if you have a look, you'll see he's clearly in the minority. Because of your "injunction" as he calls it, he also claims that no matter how many people agree with a certain change it is illegitimate. I'll be happy to gather some diffs, but my first message to you above was to please look into the situation carefully before acting on it. Did you do that and come to the conclusion that I'm wrong or did you not head that request? Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:29, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Yes, I did heed your request. I don't see any ownership behaviour from Anupam, though, being involved in multiple disputes, I didn't have the time to read every last word on the page, so you're free to provide evidence. However, from what I can see, Anupam's last proposal was supported by the majority - not to count (and I don't mean to imply that I decide where consensus lies by looking at pure numbers), but from looking at pure supports versus opposes, eight people (nine including Anupam) support while four oppose. How does that make Anupam's views a minority? m.o.p 22:37, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- It depends on what view you are talking about. The current RFC on the introduction is something that most people don't even want to engage because most people think this very entry should be split up and integrated into other entries. I reluctantly engaged the RfC just now myself. The last time the more serious question about the entry was asked, several of the new commentators were not around, and there was "no consensus" found because the opposing side was chalk full of SPAs and editors with a view that is outright hostile to atheism (which is a legitimate view to hold, but it is a minority view). Let me find you some diffs.Griswaldo (talk) 22:43, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- User:Griswaldo, that is exactly the issue: you do not want to collaborate with other users on the talk page, which is why you were reluctant to participate in the current RfC. Moreover, there were several SPA's on the side of the opposition as well, including WP:NPOV. In addition, the split was again recently discussed and the specific case to do so was refuted by several editors. As such, there was no consensus for it. I hope this helps. With regards, AnupamTalk 22:52, 20 September 2011 (UTC)]
- No. You are trying to write an article that violates WP:SYNTH because it conflates New Atheism with oppressive communist regimes and their histories of violence. That's hardly NPOV. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:59, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
Hi m.o.p., as someone who occasionally looks at that page (and then washes my hands), I just want to compliment you as having done the right thing in full protecting. By way of unsolicited advice to the involved editors, the best thing they could do is to allow The Wrong Version to sit there a good long time, and devote their energy to other things. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:54, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
]
Yes, please reconsider your full protection of
WP:RS—deserve protection against misinformed reverts. Thanks Geremia (talk) 16:12, 22 September 2011 (UTC)]
Diffs of
- I'm not really sure where the ownership is here; nowhere in our policies is it stated that a user can't promote their RFC on the subject talk page. If it's ongoing and they'd like to move it to the forefront, what's wrong with that? More so, some of your summaries seem inaccurate - in that last diff, you state that Anupam is removing images, yet I only see Anupam adding an image (the peace dove that's at the top of the page). Also, you use repeating examples. m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Well clearly the last diff was wrong. Thanks for the vote of confidence. There are no repeat examples nor inaccurate summaries, just a mistaken copy paste of the second to last diff to the last position as well. I have fixed it. Cheers.
- Using "consensus claims from one RfC to reject changes made to article content
- Same as above. Using the "consensus" bludgeon to get his way. Please note that clearly we ought to edit by consensus, but this consensus is highly disputed, and IMO not there in the first place. The real problem is the way in which Anupam decides to use it like a trump card to remove changes he doesn't like. Ask yourself if all changes post "consensus" have been removed or just the ones Anupam decided he wanted removed.
Master of Puppets do you need more diffs or is this enough?Griswaldo (talk) 23:31, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Well I need more diffs because your "evidence" so far looks like a desperate attempt to incriminate an editor who has been very successful in persuading his colleagues to adopt his proposals. Anupam has presented his proposals, argued the merits and persuaded many editors. Anything you want to tell us about why you're having difficulty doing likewise? – Lionel (talk) 06:02, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- I don't see this is as conclusive evidence, either. And, it should be said - if people are editing against established consensus, then people are free to re-evaluate consensus, but edit-warring against it doesn't make much sense. m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- If not ownership then what is this - [28], [29], [30]? He removes two RfCs started by another editor, and revolving around the question that many of us actually find to be the fundamental question to answer regarding the entry. Then he edit wars to keep these RfCs off the page, claiming again to have some sort of authority stemming from your prior actions. If you aren't willing to do something here I'm going to another administrator and I'm going to ask for your initial "consensus," your strong arm administrating, and your lack of action here to be reviewed as well. Thanks.Griswaldo (talk) 17:08, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Anupam has already apologized for reverting those RfC additions, and we've moved past it. He also didn't claim to have administrative authority, but was waiting for my approval. We've cleared this up, it's not an issue. So no, I'm not going to take any action (as I've said here and on ANI). Now, if you'd like to threaten me and tell me that, since I'm not cooperating with your wills, you'll go to another administrator, that's fine - as I've said, you can seek outside opinions - but remember to keep a cool head, because borderline threats are not appreciated. m.o.p 21:49, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- It was not a threat, "borderline" or otherwise. You are conveniently ignoring a growing number of voices who are all saying the same thing - there is an ownership problem here. The deletion issue has not been "cleared up" as far as I'm concerned. Whenever it is mentioned Anupam insists that he did not "unilaterally" delete the RfCs from the page, which is a blatant distortion, since that is exactly what he did. He continues to act as a policeman at the page, and yes he does continue to cite your authority. Did you bother to read the many diffs I posted above in the second two sections? I will quote three random examples from those I provided for you if you want.
- When he first deleted the two RfCs he wrote: "rv - see discussion with reviewing administrator; approval needed to start another RfC while one is already occurring."
- When he deleted a fact tag that JimWae put into the lede: "rv excessive tagging per talk; tag is already extant in header; do not subvert previous consensus but gain consensus for potential additions per administrative notice"
- When he rejected another recent change to the entry: "accepted edits by User:Jkhwiki; rv removal of longstanding referenced content - see discussion on talk page and gain consensus for action per administrative injunction"
- In talk page comments and in edit summaries he consistently does the same thing. He refers to your authority, either directly or indirectly through your "notice" or your "injunction" as he likes to call it. I never said the claimed to have administrative authority, I said that he's using your authority, by way of your comments, such as the closure of the AfD to bully people. Do you deny that he citing your comments, because if you do then I must have fabricated those quotes. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:32, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
If you say "If you don't do A, then I'm going to go and do B", that's a threat. Anyway, that's not the issue - we've already covered all the issues with the RfC reverting, and Anupam won't do it again. Why keep raising hell over it?
We've already covered everything you bring up. And no, I'm not denying anything. I'm just saying this, and it's very simple: I don't think there has been any blatant ownership here. That's my judgment. If you disagree, again, feel free to raise this with another administrator or on ANI. m.o.p 23:12, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Regarding the new RFC, I still think there has not passed yet too much time since the last discussion about splitting the article. As far as I knew, repeating these sorts of debates (like splitting, deleting, renaming) before a larger amount of time has passed (like 6 months) is usually discouraged. And as others have also argued earlier, even if having multiple RFCs is possible, it's not very useful, and the new RFC seems to discourage further discussion about improving the lead introduction. So preventing multiple RFCs (and also a RFC about an issue debated not too long ago) does not look to me like evidence of bad faith intentions. Cody7777777 (talk) 21:37, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Cody, would you mind linking me to the previous RfC on splitting? m.o.p 21:49, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- The previous attempt to split the article can be found here. Cody7777777 (talk) 21:55, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Response
Yes, it does. Thanks, m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Dear User:Master of Puppets, I just noticed that User:Binksternet started another RfC while a current one is occurring. Is this appropriate? I reverted the addition motioning for one until your response is confirmed. If it is acceptable, then I apologize and will revert my edit. I look forward to your response. With regards, AnupamTalk 15:14, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'll form my reply on ANI. m.o.p 17:12, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- When you do please take into account my comment just above, regarding Anupam's edit warring to remove talk page comments (namely these RfCs) posted by others on the talk page. If you still don't think this is WP:OWN then clearly other administrators are needed here.Griswaldo (talk) 17:15, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Dear User:Griswaldo, how is going to a neutral mediator to address the issue owning the article? I acknowledge that the article is in dispute and as a result, I am asking an administrator for advice in this matter, NOT handling things on my own, as you have done by edit warring. Your WP:OWN allegations have not only been dismissed by this administrator, but by several other users, including, User:Lionelt, User:Cody7777777 and User:NYyankees51. Thanks, AnupamTalk 17:27, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- In reply to Griswaldo: reverting the RfCs was a mistake, but we've cleared that up now. As Anupam has stated at ANI, the intent was not to discourage discussion. If you think my judgment is compromised, you're welcome to seek another administrator's input. m.o.p 21:04, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- And as further evidence of WP:OWN, see this. Anupam adds a comment to everything that anyone else says, as if he/she is the owner of the article and everyone else is a subordinate contributor. This particular instance is pretty benign (although it clutters up the talk page with an unnecessary comment that merely says "I agree"), but I do think that Anupam at least needs to learn how to avoid giving the appearance of thinking he/she owns the article, and to desist from chipping in and saying the same thing over and over again, which almost makes meaningful discussion impossible! SNALWIBMA ( talk - contribs ) 17:31, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- While the input is appreciated, as I've said before, making allegations of ownership without hard evidence isn't going to get us anywhere. Anupam is not stopping others from discussing changes or forming consensus, and that's all that matters - refactoring the talk page or commenting on an issue is not against policy, and I'm not going to tell someone to stop editing because it "looks" like they're doing something wrong. As said above, you're welcome to request another administrator's insight if you wish. m.o.p 21:04, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
COIHi
you've helped me out before, with a conflict of interest problem, so having much more experience than me on wikipedia, I thought I would be bold enough to ask again for help.
Similar problem to last, User_talk:Hobbycraft is editing the HOBBYCRAFT article and making changes that aren't citably right. I think the user name suggest and history suggests a conflict of interest case.
Can you please, speak to them addressing this issue.
Thank you very much for your help.
Markcoulter50 (talk) 22:27, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
- I've blocked that user for username violations. Thanks a lot for letting me know! Keep up the great work, m.o.p 23:00, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkbackcausa sui (talk) 18:47, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Hello. You have a new message at causa sui's talk page. causa sui (talk) 20:54, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Problematic editing on militant atheism
- I hope it's not considered defamatory to repeat the final line: "I merely present the diffs above, and let others draw their own conclusions. Is this a duck? Does it quack? You decide.". Unfortunately, the concerned community no longer has that opportunity. What did you decide on their behalf? Does this duck quack, or not? bobrayner (talk) 15:42, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- It's not your wording, it's the very idea of it. Going to what's allegorically a public place and shouting, "Hey, everybody, this man is a criminal!" is one step below blatantly forming a lynch mob. As I've said, I have no problem with your wording or evidence, just your location of choice. Wikipedia is not, unfortunately, a democracy - letting others draw their conclusions and voice their opinions is not how a sockpuppet investigation works.
- So yes, please don't go restoring any of that section. We're not discussing editors, we're discussing the content they produce. Anything else has a sub-board to deal with it (like WP:SPI).
- Hopefully that clears things up! I'll be happy to answer any more questions should you have them. Cheers, m.o.p 15:48, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Hello User:Bobrayner, I noticed the section you created on the militant atheism talk page. If you do feel the way you do about User:Turnsalso and the anonymous IP Addresses, you can take this up with WP:SPI. Thanks, AnupamTalk 15:52, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
Are you kidding my MoP? Above your write: Going to what's allegorically a public place and shouting, "Hey, everybody, this man is a criminal!" is one step below blatantly forming a lynch mob. AND We're not discussing editors, we're discussing the content they produce. Yet you call this edit by Lionelt "good faith," at WQA? MoP, I would not ask you to agree with me or to like me, but can I please ask you not to insult me with these double standards.Griswaldo (talk) 16:18, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
]
- Griswaldo, I mean no offense when I say this, but I'd appreciate it if you stayed out of discussions which didn't involve you. Also, please don't put words in my mouth. Thanks, m.o.p 16:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I have not put words in your mouth. You said that you would assume good faith about Lionel. If you "assume good faith" it means you assume his edits were in "good faith." If you did not intend that meaning I suggest you reconsider what you wrote. Also, if you want me to "stay out of discussion which don't involve me" then I suggest your first order of business should be to do the same thing yourself. You decided to post at WQA, when there was no mention of you or anything you've done in that thread. Once again, I expect people not to practice double standards. So as long as you cannot show me that you will treat me as you ask to be treated yourself, I will not oblige you. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:21, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Please stop bickering. I'm not quite sure what you're trying to accomplish here. I've already explained what I meant when I said assuming good faith, but I'll explain again: I assumed that Lionelt was not hounding or deliberately haranguing you. I did not say, at any point, that his edit content was good faith, and I've told him not to edit like that again. So please stop accusing me of saying things I haven't said.
- Also, I posted in WQA because, as a mediator in this case and as an administrator, it's my duty to weigh in on administrative noticeboards, especially when the case is an ongoing discussion I've been participating in for three months. It is not your duty to weigh in on discussions on my talk page that don't concern you. I hope the distinction is clear here. m.o.p 20:33, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I think you are confused about something. Content is never good faith. "Editing in good faith" and "good faith edits" refers to the intent of the editor always. It has nothing to do with content. My assumption that you also felt the edits were appropriate comes from the fact that you did not say they weren't appropriate and clearly feel that his intentions were good. If you'd like to set the record straight on that issue you still can. I've asked you twice now to discuss the actual edits that are the focal point of the thread. Also, I moved the thread to ANI, per the suggestion of the editor who marked it "resolved."Griswaldo (talk) 20:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- See Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#User:Lionelt_--_following_my_past_edits_to_drum_up_support_against_me. FYI, I copy pasted the entire discussion because both you and Collect were critical of my initial post and I thought it was the right thing to do to preserve that criticism in the record of the conversation. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:43, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- In reply to your first paragraph: I'm going to give up now, as it seems you're misunderstanding most of what I type, but you're the one who stated that the content was not good faith (as you said, not appropriate), and I agreed - I referred to his intent in replying to you, and said that I assumed good faith in his motives, not his replies. I can't really say that in a clearer way, so my apologies if it's hard to understand. Also, as I've already said, I've left a message for Lionelt about his edits, so clearly I do not feel they're appropriate. m.o.p 20:57, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I, too, find these double standards vexing.
- Which diff is defamatory?
- I had hitherto thought that people on the article talkpage might like to be aware of potential problems with votestacking on the article talkpage (and 3rr evasion, of course). Would it be permitted to add a link to that list of diffs when it's in a different place, or would you consider that defamatory too? bobrayner (talk) 16:23, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- As I said, the information is not defamatory, but the way it's presented is - we have specific processes available to pursue should one feel there are sockpuppets about. However, calling someone out with the intent of informing the community is overstepping your authority and damaging to the accused's character. Also, there's no way a community discussion about whether or not one editor is a sockpuppet can end in anything other than a sockpuppet investigation anyway.
- So, in closing, please don't bring issues like this to the talk page. If you're concerned about votestacking, take it to the appropriate venue - if your concerns are validated, we'll take measures against said puppets. Cheers, m.o.p 16:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I am very disappointed that it's no longer permissible to raise problems with article-editing on the article talkpage. Previous concerns about sockpuppetry were simply ignored; the difference this time is that it's backed by lots of diffs.
- I'm fairly confident that the people concerned have sufficient technical nous to make checkuser draw a blank. And, let's be entirely honest, within minutes of me creating an SPI, an admin of the right persuasion will be getting an email suggesting that an SPI needs their attention. And SPI does not see offsite coordination by a facebook group &c. Finally, any null result at SPI will be used at the article in much the same way as previous administrative decisions have been. So, I do not believe that an SPI will improve either the article, or the encyclopædia as a whole. bobrayner (talk) 17:08, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- If you don't think the pre-existing methods set in place for situations like this are sufficient, you can always raise that concern at the village pump or suggest a policy revision - however, SPI is the venue for these requests, and the only venue. The talk page can not substitute. m.o.p 17:10, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
76.228.226.122Thank you for blocking the anonymous user, who is being counterproductive and rude. (although I think the block should have been one week, but I guess ok at least)
Can you also please try to hide the edit summaries of these edits if possible?
This and
this
Thanks and regards, talk 05:04, 26 September 2011 (UTC)]
- I'll extend the block if this behaviour continues after the block period is over.
- As for the edit summaries, those don't warrant hiding - I apologize for their content, but they don't meet the criteria of what I should remove. It's best just to ignore them for now. Cheers, m.o.p 05:13, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
- Okay, good to know, if I did nothing wrong, no permanent block will be enforced. The IP does not volunteer on WP as an admin and so the disproportionately out of line comments and threats of his should be ignored. --talk 05:19, 26 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Sounds good. We only hide extremely offensive revisions; milder ones stay in the edit history. Thanks again for bringing this to our attention! Cheers, m.o.p 05:31, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
Email
Jasper Deng (talk) 05:29, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
- Reading. talk) 06:00, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Bad Girls Club
- I've blocked Junebea for 2 days for disregarding warnings. m.o.p 20:30, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks for helping :) Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 21:06, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkback
- And again.Griswaldo (talk) 04:24, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
- And again ... but maybe the last. You can settle this question once and for all. See the talk page.Griswaldo (talk) 06:09, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'm sure I'm not alone in wanting to hear your replies to the last responses posed to you at that page. IMO, I don't know why you went down the road you did, but as far as I can tell you're blatantly misrepesenting facts about your own actions when people are brining concerns to you. You might think that since you closed the RfC the matter is settled, but it is not. You're actions have not made my life any more pleasant in the last few days vis-a-vis trying to deal with Anupam's disruption and I think you owe us all answers. So please revisit this thread and deal with the open questions. Thanks.Griswaldo (talk) 02:19, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
- I invite you to stop asking the same question again and again. This would be appreciated. Thanks, m.o.p 02:33, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Block question
- No, I just block obviously bad-faith accounts on sight. Advertising/spam accounts fall under that category. m.o.p 00:37, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Thanks
- Thank you. I've unlocked the article for whatever may come. If I'm needed again, feel free to let me know. Thanks for the kind words again, m.o.p 05:12, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
reminder
- We're still waiting to see if the user understands COI policy (per Ed's question). I'll prod the user and see if they'll answer. talk) 19:20, 30 September 2011 (UTC)]
Nextel logo deleted
- Mmm, good point. What's the link to the logo in question? m.o.p 01:33, 2 October 2011 (UTC)
Support of Sage City SymphonyYou deleted this page before I had a chance to go back in and add the stuff that you wanted to see, including the links within Wikipedia to important composers such as Lou Callabro (who started this orchestra and cites it in his Wikipedia page) and Susan Hurley whose work we premiered (SC is also mentioned in her Wikipedia entry). (Let alone links about the works we have performed.) And we have a web site at www.sagecitysymphony.org, have existed for over 35 yrs and are a significant cultural resource in the Bennington area such that we receive grants from local, statewide and national foundations.
I broke my wrist last weekend and am doing one-handed pecking so it'll take me a few days to get that loaded in. We are going out for a bit now, but I would appreciate your undeleting the page so that I don't have to re-invent the starting part when I go back in tomorrow to add links. Or delete it entirely so that I can start fresh - at this point either would work as long as I can start some serious work on it tomorrow. I am the webmaster by the way, so I do have access to content and more links.
Thank you, Celia Murray — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.228.127.119 (talk) 14:22, 1 October 2011 (UTC)
- It looks like fixed everything up. Best of luck, m.o.p 01:35, 2 October 2011 (UTC)]
Reply on Deterence's talk page
MA
After the beating you took you deserve a cold one--on me! Thanks for being fair and balanced – Lionel (talk) 03:55, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
- Hey, thanks! Glad to help out. :) m.o.p 03:56, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
Deletion of Mau5trap Recordings
--neocharles (talk) 07:33, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Existence does not equal notability - the subject has to be notable to get a Wikipedia page. m.o.p 12:05, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
Questoin re: AIV
- Addendum, actually, I read it very clearly in WP:VANDNOT: "Uploading or using material on Wikipedia in violation of Wikipedia's copyright policies is prohibited, but is not vandalism unless the user does so maliciously or fails to heed warnings." So if a person fails to heed warnings it is vandalism. My mistake here was that I only warned once. --Muhandes (talk) 12:29, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Eh, technically it is vandalism, but the user seems to be trying to improve the Wikipedia - that desire to help is misplaced in this case, as they seem to think that using copyrighted content is actually better. Weird. For most cases, yes, you should report copyvio to AIV - as long as they've been warned sufficiently. m.o.p 12:42, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- OK, he now did it again and the time stamp is after your last warning. Is it vandalism now? --Muhandes (talk) 12:32, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Yeah, if they're outright ignoring warnings. I've blocked for three days. m.o.p 12:40, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
Classmusic
- Oh, I know. But if somebody's lied to my face about using another account - and to other editors working on the article - I'm not about to let them go without a repercussion or two. I'd like Almost-instinct and Voceditnore to look over the article and fix up anything shifty. Also, I'd like Classmusic to respond to my warning, instead of blanking it and ignoring like they have to the above-named editors.
- So, in short, I know that COI doesn't bar editing, but it's enough of a concern that, given the user's recent behaviour, I'll stop them from doing anything until we've figured things out. This isn't too rouge-y, is it? I didn't hear that. Perhaps he is unaware of the sockpuppet investigation findings. Anyhow it seems that DeltaQuad has also blocked the Classmusic account. I left a note on his page about using the unblock template, but re-iterated that he needs to read the COI and Autobiography guidelines and stick to them scrupulously, if he gets unblocked. In the Opera and Classical Music WikiProjects, we get a lot of articles for performers, ensembles, etc. created by their agents and PR people, and often themselves. In my experience, the best I can hope for after one of these tussles is that they'll edit their article according to the guidelines in future. I have yet to find a single one who has ever contributed anything else to Wikipedia. Their only interest in the project is as a PR tool. Having said that, at least it results (after much red-pencilling from other editors) in one new article on a notable subject that we didn't have before and in a small way redresses the pop culture systemic bias here. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 13:40, 5 October 2011 (UTC)]
Danish election
- Never mind, it's been pulled by another admin. All the best, Jenks24 (talk) 11:03, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry about that! I was busy all day and didn't get your message until now. Thanks for letting me know, though! Cheers, m.o.p 19:51, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
3RRHey there! :)
Well WP:CRYSTAL has wined down, however, there's currently a
The Bad Girls Club (season 7). I have notified the two users [32], [33]. The evidence can be found here. They are having an edit-conflict on how the "Duration of cast" should be presented. Since there's no rules regarding anything like that, and it was made up about a year ago, I couldn't warned them to stop their e/c with anything except the 3RR rule. Maybe they need an admin to tell them to stop, so that's why I came to you :) Thanks, Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 01:17, 6 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Temporary page protection requested. Calabe1992 (talk) 01:29, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
Moderation
- If you look into this please consider whether Anupam's actions on the talk page and the entry itself are violations of WP:OWN. He's been driving off those he disagrees with by bludgening them to death with argument and heavily policing the entry claiming that there is a consensus written in stone despite many dissenting voices. Others have taken to simply calling him "the article's owner." I have had enough of this behavior personally and left him a message about it on his talk page. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:52, 20 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Dear User:Master of Puppets, the above user has misrepresented the occurrences at the article. I started another Introduction discussion at the article's talk page but User:Griswaldo has chosen to edit war over a second NPOV tag, despite the fact that one already exists in the article. He has done so despite the fact that the Introduction is being discussed in a peaceful manner at the talk page, in violation of your injunction: "We've only got consensus on this proposed versions (and loose consensus at that) - please do not attempt to subvert said consensus by making undiscussed changes." I have posted a message on his talk page about this behaviour. Nevertheless, I also do not wish to argue with the user personally and would prefer if you could go back to moderating the discussion between the two parties at the talk page. Thanks for taking the time to read this message. With regards, AnupamTalk 20:58, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- His "injunction?" Adding a neutrality tag to a specific sentence which an editor disputes the neutrality of is hardly "subverting the consensus by making undiscussed changes." Please stop wikilawyering to get your way. There is a growing consensus against your position regarding this article in general as well, despite your aggressive policing of the entry and the talk page. See ]
- I just thought that I would mention that User:Griswaldo, after seeing this message, just now decided to comment in the discussion rather than edit war against consensus further. Thanks for taking the time to read this message. With regards, AnupamTalk 21:51, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- "Edit war against consensus further?" My comment there has nothing to do with your message here. I've made three total edits to this entry ever. One was a copy edit in June, another was reverting an IP vandal, and the third was the revert of your Ownership edit. Please do not insinuate that I'm a edit warrior on this page. It is disingenuous.Griswaldo (talk) 22:08, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Thank you all for approaching me with your concerns.
- Obviously, I do not support Anupam - this is because I'm remaining a neutral third party, and, therefore, can't take sides. However, Griswaldo: please keep in mind that I did ask for all discussion to take place on the talk page. Why not just add your complaints to the talk page? It would have been much easier to discuss.
- I do agree that adding a NPOV tag, while slightly redundant, isn't horrible, but your intent seems to have been to stir discussion on that particular section, discussion that would be much more appropriate on the talk page.
- As for your and Snalwibma's concerns of Anupam trying to 'own' the article, I'm curious as to what you two mean; what 'delusions'?
- Also, Griswaldo, I don't think Anupam meant to insinuate you are an edit warrior (though this is just my take) - rather, they wanted to add the note that you've weighed in on discussion. m.o.p 22:10, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- your intent seems to have been to stir discussion on that particular section - No that's incorrect. I didn't add this tag, I simply reverted Anupam's attempt to own the page when he removed it. I agreed with JimWae's addition of the tag and found Anupam's removal to be unwarranted and a display of ownership.Griswaldo (talk) 22:16, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Note that, for all intents and purposes, reverting somebody is adding whatever is included in your edit, regardless of who put it there first. You revert a removal, you're agreeing with the edition you're reverting to - simple.
- And, if you agreed with JimWae, then we go back to what I was saying earlier - say so on the talk page. Two of you agree? Great! That's closer to consensus. But it means nothing if you express your support by reverting removals.
- Again, as I've asked multiple times, please stop saying that Anupam is owning anything without giving me evidence of it first. m.o.p 22:22, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Dear User:Master of Puppets, thank you for your reply to all of us. The reason User:Snalwibma stated that I was attempting to "own" the article was because I reverted an undiscussed removal from the article, which not only myself, but two other users objected to. In fact, two anonymous IP Addresses also reverted User:Snalwibma. I was open to compromise on the issue and stated that I would accept User:Turnsalso's compromise on the issue. I kindly request you to look at that discussion yourself and get an honest reading of it. Also, the only reason I removed the second NPOV tag was because there was already one present, which I did not remove. I only reverted the addition of a second NPOV tag once and even explained myself on the talk page. When I went to the talk page, I found rude accusations and an anti-collaborative spirit, despite the fact that I have been nothing but polite. I hope this helps. With regards, AnupamTalk 22:25, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry - I know I should not rise to the bait, but I have to object to the comment "The reason User:Snalwibma stated that I was attempting to 'own' the article was because I reverted an undiscussed removal ..." How dare Anupam presume to know what is in my mind! The reason I describe Anupam's attitude to the article as one of ownership is because that is how s/he behaves - "policing" every edit, pronouncing on whether s/he "accepts" or "rejects" it, peremptorily reverting anything s/he does not like, without discussion, presuming to know others' motives, and judging them as fit/unfit to contribute to the article. This has been going on for weeks, if not months. It is impossible to discuss the content of the article, let alone improve the text, because everything is filtered through the approval/disapproval of the article's self-appointed guardian, Anupam. tendentious or disruptive when they bring up certain issues, even when they are clearly in the majority. That is not collaborative. I stopped editing the article heavily because of those issues. I don't have any delusions that my opinion is worth more than anyone else's here, but I would think that the large number of established, experienced editors who are all saying there's a problem, would indicate something. — Jess· Δ♥ 19:45, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
Please reconsider your full protection of Militant atheist
- In case you didn't notice, I asked that people think twice about pointing fingers at each other. If you'd like to start a sockpuppetry investigation, let me know, and we can take that avenue - however, don't accuse other editors of ownership without substance. If you think Anupam is trying to own things, give me something. Diffs, edits, anything. I'll check it out for you, but right now, baseless accusations are not what I'm looking for.
- Also, notice that I protected the article with your edit being the last one. How is that validating the very person you've been reverting?
- The protection will stay until consensus is reached. m.o.p 22:19, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Because protection is what he wants quite clearly. He's stalling conversation and shouting down people on the talk page, where, if you have a look, you'll see he's clearly in the minority. Because of your "injunction" as he calls it, he also claims that no matter how many people agree with a certain change it is illegitimate. I'll be happy to gather some diffs, but my first message to you above was to please look into the situation carefully before acting on it. Did you do that and come to the conclusion that I'm wrong or did you not head that request? Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:29, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Yes, I did heed your request. I don't see any ownership behaviour from Anupam, though, being involved in multiple disputes, I didn't have the time to read every last word on the page, so you're free to provide evidence. However, from what I can see, Anupam's last proposal was supported by the majority - not to count (and I don't mean to imply that I decide where consensus lies by looking at pure numbers), but from looking at pure supports versus opposes, eight people (nine including Anupam) support while four oppose. How does that make Anupam's views a minority? m.o.p 22:37, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- It depends on what view you are talking about. The current RFC on the introduction is something that most people don't even want to engage because most people think this very entry should be split up and integrated into other entries. I reluctantly engaged the RfC just now myself. The last time the more serious question about the entry was asked, several of the new commentators were not around, and there was "no consensus" found because the opposing side was chalk full of SPAs and editors with a view that is outright hostile to atheism (which is a legitimate view to hold, but it is a minority view). Let me find you some diffs.Griswaldo (talk) 22:43, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- User:Griswaldo, that is exactly the issue: you do not want to collaborate with other users on the talk page, which is why you were reluctant to participate in the current RfC. Moreover, there were several SPA's on the side of the opposition as well, including WP:NPOV. In addition, the split was again recently discussed and the specific case to do so was refuted by several editors. As such, there was no consensus for it. I hope this helps. With regards, AnupamTalk 22:52, 20 September 2011 (UTC)]
- No. You are trying to write an article that violates WP:SYNTH because it conflates New Atheism with oppressive communist regimes and their histories of violence. That's hardly NPOV. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:59, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
Hi m.o.p., as someone who occasionally looks at that page (and then washes my hands), I just want to compliment you as having done the right thing in full protecting. By way of unsolicited advice to the involved editors, the best thing they could do is to allow The Wrong Version to sit there a good long time, and devote their energy to other things. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:54, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
]
Yes, please reconsider your full protection of
WP:RS—deserve protection against misinformed reverts. Thanks Geremia (talk) 16:12, 22 September 2011 (UTC)]
Diffs of
- I'm not really sure where the ownership is here; nowhere in our policies is it stated that a user can't promote their RFC on the subject talk page. If it's ongoing and they'd like to move it to the forefront, what's wrong with that? More so, some of your summaries seem inaccurate - in that last diff, you state that Anupam is removing images, yet I only see Anupam adding an image (the peace dove that's at the top of the page). Also, you use repeating examples. m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Well clearly the last diff was wrong. Thanks for the vote of confidence. There are no repeat examples nor inaccurate summaries, just a mistaken copy paste of the second to last diff to the last position as well. I have fixed it. Cheers.
- Using "consensus claims from one RfC to reject changes made to article content
- Same as above. Using the "consensus" bludgeon to get his way. Please note that clearly we ought to edit by consensus, but this consensus is highly disputed, and IMO not there in the first place. The real problem is the way in which Anupam decides to use it like a trump card to remove changes he doesn't like. Ask yourself if all changes post "consensus" have been removed or just the ones Anupam decided he wanted removed.
Master of Puppets do you need more diffs or is this enough?Griswaldo (talk) 23:31, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Well I need more diffs because your "evidence" so far looks like a desperate attempt to incriminate an editor who has been very successful in persuading his colleagues to adopt his proposals. Anupam has presented his proposals, argued the merits and persuaded many editors. Anything you want to tell us about why you're having difficulty doing likewise? – Lionel (talk) 06:02, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- I don't see this is as conclusive evidence, either. And, it should be said - if people are editing against established consensus, then people are free to re-evaluate consensus, but edit-warring against it doesn't make much sense. m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- If not ownership then what is this - [28], [29], [30]? He removes two RfCs started by another editor, and revolving around the question that many of us actually find to be the fundamental question to answer regarding the entry. Then he edit wars to keep these RfCs off the page, claiming again to have some sort of authority stemming from your prior actions. If you aren't willing to do something here I'm going to another administrator and I'm going to ask for your initial "consensus," your strong arm administrating, and your lack of action here to be reviewed as well. Thanks.Griswaldo (talk) 17:08, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Anupam has already apologized for reverting those RfC additions, and we've moved past it. He also didn't claim to have administrative authority, but was waiting for my approval. We've cleared this up, it's not an issue. So no, I'm not going to take any action (as I've said here and on ANI). Now, if you'd like to threaten me and tell me that, since I'm not cooperating with your wills, you'll go to another administrator, that's fine - as I've said, you can seek outside opinions - but remember to keep a cool head, because borderline threats are not appreciated. m.o.p 21:49, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- It was not a threat, "borderline" or otherwise. You are conveniently ignoring a growing number of voices who are all saying the same thing - there is an ownership problem here. The deletion issue has not been "cleared up" as far as I'm concerned. Whenever it is mentioned Anupam insists that he did not "unilaterally" delete the RfCs from the page, which is a blatant distortion, since that is exactly what he did. He continues to act as a policeman at the page, and yes he does continue to cite your authority. Did you bother to read the many diffs I posted above in the second two sections? I will quote three random examples from those I provided for you if you want.
- When he first deleted the two RfCs he wrote: "rv - see discussion with reviewing administrator; approval needed to start another RfC while one is already occurring."
- When he deleted a fact tag that JimWae put into the lede: "rv excessive tagging per talk; tag is already extant in header; do not subvert previous consensus but gain consensus for potential additions per administrative notice"
- When he rejected another recent change to the entry: "accepted edits by User:Jkhwiki; rv removal of longstanding referenced content - see discussion on talk page and gain consensus for action per administrative injunction"
- In talk page comments and in edit summaries he consistently does the same thing. He refers to your authority, either directly or indirectly through your "notice" or your "injunction" as he likes to call it. I never said the claimed to have administrative authority, I said that he's using your authority, by way of your comments, such as the closure of the AfD to bully people. Do you deny that he citing your comments, because if you do then I must have fabricated those quotes. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:32, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
If you say "If you don't do A, then I'm going to go and do B", that's a threat. Anyway, that's not the issue - we've already covered all the issues with the RfC reverting, and Anupam won't do it again. Why keep raising hell over it?
We've already covered everything you bring up. And no, I'm not denying anything. I'm just saying this, and it's very simple: I don't think there has been any blatant ownership here. That's my judgment. If you disagree, again, feel free to raise this with another administrator or on ANI. m.o.p 23:12, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Regarding the new RFC, I still think there has not passed yet too much time since the last discussion about splitting the article. As far as I knew, repeating these sorts of debates (like splitting, deleting, renaming) before a larger amount of time has passed (like 6 months) is usually discouraged. And as others have also argued earlier, even if having multiple RFCs is possible, it's not very useful, and the new RFC seems to discourage further discussion about improving the lead introduction. So preventing multiple RFCs (and also a RFC about an issue debated not too long ago) does not look to me like evidence of bad faith intentions. Cody7777777 (talk) 21:37, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Cody, would you mind linking me to the previous RfC on splitting? m.o.p 21:49, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- The previous attempt to split the article can be found here. Cody7777777 (talk) 21:55, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Response
Yes, it does. Thanks, m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Dear User:Master of Puppets, I just noticed that User:Binksternet started another RfC while a current one is occurring. Is this appropriate? I reverted the addition motioning for one until your response is confirmed. If it is acceptable, then I apologize and will revert my edit. I look forward to your response. With regards, AnupamTalk 15:14, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'll form my reply on ANI. m.o.p 17:12, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- When you do please take into account my comment just above, regarding Anupam's edit warring to remove talk page comments (namely these RfCs) posted by others on the talk page. If you still don't think this is WP:OWN then clearly other administrators are needed here.Griswaldo (talk) 17:15, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Dear User:Griswaldo, how is going to a neutral mediator to address the issue owning the article? I acknowledge that the article is in dispute and as a result, I am asking an administrator for advice in this matter, NOT handling things on my own, as you have done by edit warring. Your WP:OWN allegations have not only been dismissed by this administrator, but by several other users, including, User:Lionelt, User:Cody7777777 and User:NYyankees51. Thanks, AnupamTalk 17:27, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- In reply to Griswaldo: reverting the RfCs was a mistake, but we've cleared that up now. As Anupam has stated at ANI, the intent was not to discourage discussion. If you think my judgment is compromised, you're welcome to seek another administrator's input. m.o.p 21:04, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- And as further evidence of WP:OWN, see this. Anupam adds a comment to everything that anyone else says, as if he/she is the owner of the article and everyone else is a subordinate contributor. This particular instance is pretty benign (although it clutters up the talk page with an unnecessary comment that merely says "I agree"), but I do think that Anupam at least needs to learn how to avoid giving the appearance of thinking he/she owns the article, and to desist from chipping in and saying the same thing over and over again, which almost makes meaningful discussion impossible! SNALWIBMA ( talk - contribs ) 17:31, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- While the input is appreciated, as I've said before, making allegations of ownership without hard evidence isn't going to get us anywhere. Anupam is not stopping others from discussing changes or forming consensus, and that's all that matters - refactoring the talk page or commenting on an issue is not against policy, and I'm not going to tell someone to stop editing because it "looks" like they're doing something wrong. As said above, you're welcome to request another administrator's insight if you wish. m.o.p 21:04, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
COIHi
you've helped me out before, with a conflict of interest problem, so having much more experience than me on wikipedia, I thought I would be bold enough to ask again for help.
Similar problem to last, User_talk:Hobbycraft is editing the HOBBYCRAFT article and making changes that aren't citably right. I think the user name suggest and history suggests a conflict of interest case.
Can you please, speak to them addressing this issue.
Thank you very much for your help.
Markcoulter50 (talk) 22:27, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
- I've blocked that user for username violations. Thanks a lot for letting me know! Keep up the great work, m.o.p 23:00, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkbackcausa sui (talk) 18:47, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Hello. You have a new message at causa sui's talk page. causa sui (talk) 20:54, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Problematic editing on militant atheism
- I hope it's not considered defamatory to repeat the final line: "I merely present the diffs above, and let others draw their own conclusions. Is this a duck? Does it quack? You decide.". Unfortunately, the concerned community no longer has that opportunity. What did you decide on their behalf? Does this duck quack, or not? bobrayner (talk) 15:42, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- It's not your wording, it's the very idea of it. Going to what's allegorically a public place and shouting, "Hey, everybody, this man is a criminal!" is one step below blatantly forming a lynch mob. As I've said, I have no problem with your wording or evidence, just your location of choice. Wikipedia is not, unfortunately, a democracy - letting others draw their conclusions and voice their opinions is not how a sockpuppet investigation works.
- So yes, please don't go restoring any of that section. We're not discussing editors, we're discussing the content they produce. Anything else has a sub-board to deal with it (like WP:SPI).
- Hopefully that clears things up! I'll be happy to answer any more questions should you have them. Cheers, m.o.p 15:48, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Hello User:Bobrayner, I noticed the section you created on the militant atheism talk page. If you do feel the way you do about User:Turnsalso and the anonymous IP Addresses, you can take this up with WP:SPI. Thanks, AnupamTalk 15:52, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
Are you kidding my MoP? Above your write: Going to what's allegorically a public place and shouting, "Hey, everybody, this man is a criminal!" is one step below blatantly forming a lynch mob. AND We're not discussing editors, we're discussing the content they produce. Yet you call this edit by Lionelt "good faith," at WQA? MoP, I would not ask you to agree with me or to like me, but can I please ask you not to insult me with these double standards.Griswaldo (talk) 16:18, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
]
- Griswaldo, I mean no offense when I say this, but I'd appreciate it if you stayed out of discussions which didn't involve you. Also, please don't put words in my mouth. Thanks, m.o.p 16:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I have not put words in your mouth. You said that you would assume good faith about Lionel. If you "assume good faith" it means you assume his edits were in "good faith." If you did not intend that meaning I suggest you reconsider what you wrote. Also, if you want me to "stay out of discussion which don't involve me" then I suggest your first order of business should be to do the same thing yourself. You decided to post at WQA, when there was no mention of you or anything you've done in that thread. Once again, I expect people not to practice double standards. So as long as you cannot show me that you will treat me as you ask to be treated yourself, I will not oblige you. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:21, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Please stop bickering. I'm not quite sure what you're trying to accomplish here. I've already explained what I meant when I said assuming good faith, but I'll explain again: I assumed that Lionelt was not hounding or deliberately haranguing you. I did not say, at any point, that his edit content was good faith, and I've told him not to edit like that again. So please stop accusing me of saying things I haven't said.
- Also, I posted in WQA because, as a mediator in this case and as an administrator, it's my duty to weigh in on administrative noticeboards, especially when the case is an ongoing discussion I've been participating in for three months. It is not your duty to weigh in on discussions on my talk page that don't concern you. I hope the distinction is clear here. m.o.p 20:33, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I think you are confused about something. Content is never good faith. "Editing in good faith" and "good faith edits" refers to the intent of the editor always. It has nothing to do with content. My assumption that you also felt the edits were appropriate comes from the fact that you did not say they weren't appropriate and clearly feel that his intentions were good. If you'd like to set the record straight on that issue you still can. I've asked you twice now to discuss the actual edits that are the focal point of the thread. Also, I moved the thread to ANI, per the suggestion of the editor who marked it "resolved."Griswaldo (talk) 20:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- See Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#User:Lionelt_--_following_my_past_edits_to_drum_up_support_against_me. FYI, I copy pasted the entire discussion because both you and Collect were critical of my initial post and I thought it was the right thing to do to preserve that criticism in the record of the conversation. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:43, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- In reply to your first paragraph: I'm going to give up now, as it seems you're misunderstanding most of what I type, but you're the one who stated that the content was not good faith (as you said, not appropriate), and I agreed - I referred to his intent in replying to you, and said that I assumed good faith in his motives, not his replies. I can't really say that in a clearer way, so my apologies if it's hard to understand. Also, as I've already said, I've left a message for Lionelt about his edits, so clearly I do not feel they're appropriate. m.o.p 20:57, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I, too, find these double standards vexing.
- Which diff is defamatory?
- I had hitherto thought that people on the article talkpage might like to be aware of potential problems with votestacking on the article talkpage (and 3rr evasion, of course). Would it be permitted to add a link to that list of diffs when it's in a different place, or would you consider that defamatory too? bobrayner (talk) 16:23, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- As I said, the information is not defamatory, but the way it's presented is - we have specific processes available to pursue should one feel there are sockpuppets about. However, calling someone out with the intent of informing the community is overstepping your authority and damaging to the accused's character. Also, there's no way a community discussion about whether or not one editor is a sockpuppet can end in anything other than a sockpuppet investigation anyway.
- So, in closing, please don't bring issues like this to the talk page. If you're concerned about votestacking, take it to the appropriate venue - if your concerns are validated, we'll take measures against said puppets. Cheers, m.o.p 16:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I am very disappointed that it's no longer permissible to raise problems with article-editing on the article talkpage. Previous concerns about sockpuppetry were simply ignored; the difference this time is that it's backed by lots of diffs.
- I'm fairly confident that the people concerned have sufficient technical nous to make checkuser draw a blank. And, let's be entirely honest, within minutes of me creating an SPI, an admin of the right persuasion will be getting an email suggesting that an SPI needs their attention. And SPI does not see offsite coordination by a facebook group &c. Finally, any null result at SPI will be used at the article in much the same way as previous administrative decisions have been. So, I do not believe that an SPI will improve either the article, or the encyclopædia as a whole. bobrayner (talk) 17:08, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- If you don't think the pre-existing methods set in place for situations like this are sufficient, you can always raise that concern at the village pump or suggest a policy revision - however, SPI is the venue for these requests, and the only venue. The talk page can not substitute. m.o.p 17:10, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
76.228.226.122Thank you for blocking the anonymous user, who is being counterproductive and rude. (although I think the block should have been one week, but I guess ok at least)
Can you also please try to hide the edit summaries of these edits if possible?
This and
this
Thanks and regards, talk 05:04, 26 September 2011 (UTC)]
- I'll extend the block if this behaviour continues after the block period is over.
- As for the edit summaries, those don't warrant hiding - I apologize for their content, but they don't meet the criteria of what I should remove. It's best just to ignore them for now. Cheers, m.o.p 05:13, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
- Okay, good to know, if I did nothing wrong, no permanent block will be enforced. The IP does not volunteer on WP as an admin and so the disproportionately out of line comments and threats of his should be ignored. --talk 05:19, 26 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Sounds good. We only hide extremely offensive revisions; milder ones stay in the edit history. Thanks again for bringing this to our attention! Cheers, m.o.p 05:31, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
Email
Jasper Deng (talk) 05:29, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
- Reading. talk) 06:00, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Bad Girls Club
- I've blocked Junebea for 2 days for disregarding warnings. m.o.p 20:30, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks for helping :) Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 21:06, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkback
- And again.Griswaldo (talk) 04:24, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
- And again ... but maybe the last. You can settle this question once and for all. See the talk page.Griswaldo (talk) 06:09, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'm sure I'm not alone in wanting to hear your replies to the last responses posed to you at that page. IMO, I don't know why you went down the road you did, but as far as I can tell you're blatantly misrepesenting facts about your own actions when people are brining concerns to you. You might think that since you closed the RfC the matter is settled, but it is not. You're actions have not made my life any more pleasant in the last few days vis-a-vis trying to deal with Anupam's disruption and I think you owe us all answers. So please revisit this thread and deal with the open questions. Thanks.Griswaldo (talk) 02:19, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
- I invite you to stop asking the same question again and again. This would be appreciated. Thanks, m.o.p 02:33, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Block question
- No, I just block obviously bad-faith accounts on sight. Advertising/spam accounts fall under that category. m.o.p 00:37, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Thanks
- Thank you. I've unlocked the article for whatever may come. If I'm needed again, feel free to let me know. Thanks for the kind words again, m.o.p 05:12, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
reminder
- We're still waiting to see if the user understands COI policy (per Ed's question). I'll prod the user and see if they'll answer. talk) 19:20, 30 September 2011 (UTC)]
Nextel logo deleted
- Mmm, good point. What's the link to the logo in question? m.o.p 01:33, 2 October 2011 (UTC)
Support of Sage City SymphonyYou deleted this page before I had a chance to go back in and add the stuff that you wanted to see, including the links within Wikipedia to important composers such as Lou Callabro (who started this orchestra and cites it in his Wikipedia page) and Susan Hurley whose work we premiered (SC is also mentioned in her Wikipedia entry). (Let alone links about the works we have performed.) And we have a web site at www.sagecitysymphony.org, have existed for over 35 yrs and are a significant cultural resource in the Bennington area such that we receive grants from local, statewide and national foundations.
I broke my wrist last weekend and am doing one-handed pecking so it'll take me a few days to get that loaded in. We are going out for a bit now, but I would appreciate your undeleting the page so that I don't have to re-invent the starting part when I go back in tomorrow to add links. Or delete it entirely so that I can start fresh - at this point either would work as long as I can start some serious work on it tomorrow. I am the webmaster by the way, so I do have access to content and more links.
Thank you, Celia Murray — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.228.127.119 (talk) 14:22, 1 October 2011 (UTC)
- It looks like fixed everything up. Best of luck, m.o.p 01:35, 2 October 2011 (UTC)]
Reply on Deterence's talk page
MA
After the beating you took you deserve a cold one--on me! Thanks for being fair and balanced – Lionel (talk) 03:55, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
- Hey, thanks! Glad to help out. :) m.o.p 03:56, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
Deletion of Mau5trap Recordings
--neocharles (talk) 07:33, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Existence does not equal notability - the subject has to be notable to get a Wikipedia page. m.o.p 12:05, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
Questoin re: AIV
- Addendum, actually, I read it very clearly in WP:VANDNOT: "Uploading or using material on Wikipedia in violation of Wikipedia's copyright policies is prohibited, but is not vandalism unless the user does so maliciously or fails to heed warnings." So if a person fails to heed warnings it is vandalism. My mistake here was that I only warned once. --Muhandes (talk) 12:29, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Eh, technically it is vandalism, but the user seems to be trying to improve the Wikipedia - that desire to help is misplaced in this case, as they seem to think that using copyrighted content is actually better. Weird. For most cases, yes, you should report copyvio to AIV - as long as they've been warned sufficiently. m.o.p 12:42, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- OK, he now did it again and the time stamp is after your last warning. Is it vandalism now? --Muhandes (talk) 12:32, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Yeah, if they're outright ignoring warnings. I've blocked for three days. m.o.p 12:40, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
Classmusic
- Oh, I know. But if somebody's lied to my face about using another account - and to other editors working on the article - I'm not about to let them go without a repercussion or two. I'd like Almost-instinct and Voceditnore to look over the article and fix up anything shifty. Also, I'd like Classmusic to respond to my warning, instead of blanking it and ignoring like they have to the above-named editors.
- So, in short, I know that COI doesn't bar editing, but it's enough of a concern that, given the user's recent behaviour, I'll stop them from doing anything until we've figured things out. This isn't too rouge-y, is it? I didn't hear that. Perhaps he is unaware of the sockpuppet investigation findings. Anyhow it seems that DeltaQuad has also blocked the Classmusic account. I left a note on his page about using the unblock template, but re-iterated that he needs to read the COI and Autobiography guidelines and stick to them scrupulously, if he gets unblocked. In the Opera and Classical Music WikiProjects, we get a lot of articles for performers, ensembles, etc. created by their agents and PR people, and often themselves. In my experience, the best I can hope for after one of these tussles is that they'll edit their article according to the guidelines in future. I have yet to find a single one who has ever contributed anything else to Wikipedia. Their only interest in the project is as a PR tool. Having said that, at least it results (after much red-pencilling from other editors) in one new article on a notable subject that we didn't have before and in a small way redresses the pop culture systemic bias here. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 13:40, 5 October 2011 (UTC)]
Danish election
- Never mind, it's been pulled by another admin. All the best, Jenks24 (talk) 11:03, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry about that! I was busy all day and didn't get your message until now. Thanks for letting me know, though! Cheers, m.o.p 19:51, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
3RRHey there! :)
Well WP:CRYSTAL has wined down, however, there's currently a
The Bad Girls Club (season 7). I have notified the two users [32], [33]. The evidence can be found here. They are having an edit-conflict on how the "Duration of cast" should be presented. Since there's no rules regarding anything like that, and it was made up about a year ago, I couldn't warned them to stop their e/c with anything except the 3RR rule. Maybe they need an admin to tell them to stop, so that's why I came to you :) Thanks, Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 01:17, 6 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Temporary page protection requested. Calabe1992 (talk) 01:29, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
- Dear User:Master of Puppets, the above user has misrepresented the occurrences at the article. I started another Introduction discussion at the article's talk page but User:Griswaldo has chosen to edit war over a second NPOV tag, despite the fact that one already exists in the article. He has done so despite the fact that the Introduction is being discussed in a peaceful manner at the talk page, in violation of your injunction: "We've only got consensus on this proposed versions (and loose consensus at that) - please do not attempt to subvert said consensus by making undiscussed changes." I have posted a message on his talk page about this behaviour. Nevertheless, I also do not wish to argue with the user personally and would prefer if you could go back to moderating the discussion between the two parties at the talk page. Thanks for taking the time to read this message. With regards, AnupamTalk 20:58, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- His "injunction?" Adding a neutrality tag to a specific sentence which an editor disputes the neutrality of is hardly "subverting the consensus by making undiscussed changes." Please stop wikilawyering to get your way. There is a growing consensus against your position regarding this article in general as well, despite your aggressive policing of the entry and the talk page. See ]
- "Edit war against consensus further?" My comment there has nothing to do with your message here. I've made three total edits to this entry ever. One was a copy edit in June, another was reverting an IP vandal, and the third was the revert of your Ownership edit. Please do not insinuate that I'm a edit warrior on this page. It is disingenuous.Griswaldo (talk) 22:08, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Thank you all for approaching me with your concerns.
- Obviously, I do not support Anupam - this is because I'm remaining a neutral third party, and, therefore, can't take sides. However, Griswaldo: please keep in mind that I did ask for all discussion to take place on the talk page. Why not just add your complaints to the talk page? It would have been much easier to discuss.
- I do agree that adding a NPOV tag, while slightly redundant, isn't horrible, but your intent seems to have been to stir discussion on that particular section, discussion that would be much more appropriate on the talk page.
- As for your and Snalwibma's concerns of Anupam trying to 'own' the article, I'm curious as to what you two mean; what 'delusions'?
- Also, Griswaldo, I don't think Anupam meant to insinuate you are an edit warrior (though this is just my take) - rather, they wanted to add the note that you've weighed in on discussion. m.o.p 22:10, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- your intent seems to have been to stir discussion on that particular section - No that's incorrect. I didn't add this tag, I simply reverted Anupam's attempt to own the page when he removed it. I agreed with JimWae's addition of the tag and found Anupam's removal to be unwarranted and a display of ownership.Griswaldo (talk) 22:16, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Note that, for all intents and purposes, reverting somebody is adding whatever is included in your edit, regardless of who put it there first. You revert a removal, you're agreeing with the edition you're reverting to - simple.
- And, if you agreed with JimWae, then we go back to what I was saying earlier - say so on the talk page. Two of you agree? Great! That's closer to consensus. But it means nothing if you express your support by reverting removals.
- Again, as I've asked multiple times, please stop saying that Anupam is owning anything without giving me evidence of it first. m.o.p 22:22, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Dear User:Master of Puppets, thank you for your reply to all of us. The reason User:Snalwibma stated that I was attempting to "own" the article was because I reverted an undiscussed removal from the article, which not only myself, but two other users objected to. In fact, two anonymous IP Addresses also reverted User:Snalwibma. I was open to compromise on the issue and stated that I would accept User:Turnsalso's compromise on the issue. I kindly request you to look at that discussion yourself and get an honest reading of it. Also, the only reason I removed the second NPOV tag was because there was already one present, which I did not remove. I only reverted the addition of a second NPOV tag once and even explained myself on the talk page. When I went to the talk page, I found rude accusations and an anti-collaborative spirit, despite the fact that I have been nothing but polite. I hope this helps. With regards, AnupamTalk 22:25, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry - I know I should not rise to the bait, but I have to object to the comment "The reason User:Snalwibma stated that I was attempting to 'own' the article was because I reverted an undiscussed removal ..." How dare Anupam presume to know what is in my mind! The reason I describe Anupam's attitude to the article as one of ownership is because that is how s/he behaves - "policing" every edit, pronouncing on whether s/he "accepts" or "rejects" it, peremptorily reverting anything s/he does not like, without discussion, presuming to know others' motives, and judging them as fit/unfit to contribute to the article. This has been going on for weeks, if not months. It is impossible to discuss the content of the article, let alone improve the text, because everything is filtered through the approval/disapproval of the article's self-appointed guardian, Anupam. tendentious or disruptive when they bring up certain issues, even when they are clearly in the majority. That is not collaborative. I stopped editing the article heavily because of those issues. I don't have any delusions that my opinion is worth more than anyone else's here, but I would think that the large number of established, experienced editors who are all saying there's a problem, would indicate something. — Jess· Δ♥ 19:45, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Sorry - I know I should not rise to the bait, but I have to object to the comment "The reason User:Snalwibma stated that I was attempting to 'own' the article was because I reverted an undiscussed removal ..." How dare Anupam presume to know what is in my mind! The reason I describe Anupam's attitude to the article as one of ownership is because that is how s/he behaves - "policing" every edit, pronouncing on whether s/he "accepts" or "rejects" it, peremptorily reverting anything s/he does not like, without discussion, presuming to know others' motives, and judging them as fit/unfit to contribute to the article. This has been going on for weeks, if not months. It is impossible to discuss the content of the article, let alone improve the text, because everything is filtered through the approval/disapproval of the article's self-appointed guardian, Anupam.
- Dear User:Master of Puppets, thank you for your reply to all of us. The reason User:Snalwibma stated that I was attempting to "own" the article was because I reverted an undiscussed removal from the article, which not only myself, but two other users objected to. In fact, two anonymous IP Addresses also reverted User:Snalwibma. I was open to compromise on the issue and stated that I would accept User:Turnsalso's compromise on the issue. I kindly request you to look at that discussion yourself and get an honest reading of it. Also, the only reason I removed the second NPOV tag was because there was already one present, which I did not remove. I only reverted the addition of a second NPOV tag once and even explained myself on the talk page. When I went to the talk page, I found rude accusations and an anti-collaborative spirit, despite the fact that I have been nothing but polite. I hope this helps. With regards, AnupamTalk 22:25, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- your intent seems to have been to stir discussion on that particular section - No that's incorrect. I didn't add this tag, I simply reverted Anupam's attempt to own the page when he removed it. I agreed with JimWae's addition of the tag and found Anupam's removal to be unwarranted and a display of ownership.Griswaldo (talk) 22:16, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
Please reconsider your full protection of Militant atheist
- In case you didn't notice, I asked that people think twice about pointing fingers at each other. If you'd like to start a sockpuppetry investigation, let me know, and we can take that avenue - however, don't accuse other editors of ownership without substance. If you think Anupam is trying to own things, give me something. Diffs, edits, anything. I'll check it out for you, but right now, baseless accusations are not what I'm looking for.
- Also, notice that I protected the article with your edit being the last one. How is that validating the very person you've been reverting?
- The protection will stay until consensus is reached. m.o.p 22:19, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Because protection is what he wants quite clearly. He's stalling conversation and shouting down people on the talk page, where, if you have a look, you'll see he's clearly in the minority. Because of your "injunction" as he calls it, he also claims that no matter how many people agree with a certain change it is illegitimate. I'll be happy to gather some diffs, but my first message to you above was to please look into the situation carefully before acting on it. Did you do that and come to the conclusion that I'm wrong or did you not head that request? Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:29, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Yes, I did heed your request. I don't see any ownership behaviour from Anupam, though, being involved in multiple disputes, I didn't have the time to read every last word on the page, so you're free to provide evidence. However, from what I can see, Anupam's last proposal was supported by the majority - not to count (and I don't mean to imply that I decide where consensus lies by looking at pure numbers), but from looking at pure supports versus opposes, eight people (nine including Anupam) support while four oppose. How does that make Anupam's views a minority? m.o.p 22:37, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- It depends on what view you are talking about. The current RFC on the introduction is something that most people don't even want to engage because most people think this very entry should be split up and integrated into other entries. I reluctantly engaged the RfC just now myself. The last time the more serious question about the entry was asked, several of the new commentators were not around, and there was "no consensus" found because the opposing side was chalk full of SPAs and editors with a view that is outright hostile to atheism (which is a legitimate view to hold, but it is a minority view). Let me find you some diffs.Griswaldo (talk) 22:43, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- User:Griswaldo, that is exactly the issue: you do not want to collaborate with other users on the talk page, which is why you were reluctant to participate in the current RfC. Moreover, there were several SPA's on the side of the opposition as well, including WP:NPOV. In addition, the split was again recently discussed and the specific case to do so was refuted by several editors. As such, there was no consensus for it. I hope this helps. With regards, AnupamTalk 22:52, 20 September 2011 (UTC)]
- No. You are trying to write an article that violates WP:SYNTH because it conflates New Atheism with oppressive communist regimes and their histories of violence. That's hardly NPOV. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:59, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
Hi m.o.p., as someone who occasionally looks at that page (and then washes my hands), I just want to compliment you as having done the right thing in full protecting. By way of unsolicited advice to the involved editors, the best thing they could do is to allow The Wrong Version to sit there a good long time, and devote their energy to other things. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:54, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
]
Yes, please reconsider your full protection of
WP:RS—deserve protection against misinformed reverts. Thanks Geremia (talk) 16:12, 22 September 2011 (UTC)]
Diffs of
- I'm not really sure where the ownership is here; nowhere in our policies is it stated that a user can't promote their RFC on the subject talk page. If it's ongoing and they'd like to move it to the forefront, what's wrong with that? More so, some of your summaries seem inaccurate - in that last diff, you state that Anupam is removing images, yet I only see Anupam adding an image (the peace dove that's at the top of the page). Also, you use repeating examples. m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Well clearly the last diff was wrong. Thanks for the vote of confidence. There are no repeat examples nor inaccurate summaries, just a mistaken copy paste of the second to last diff to the last position as well. I have fixed it. Cheers.
- Using "consensus claims from one RfC to reject changes made to article content
- Same as above. Using the "consensus" bludgeon to get his way. Please note that clearly we ought to edit by consensus, but this consensus is highly disputed, and IMO not there in the first place. The real problem is the way in which Anupam decides to use it like a trump card to remove changes he doesn't like. Ask yourself if all changes post "consensus" have been removed or just the ones Anupam decided he wanted removed.
Master of Puppets do you need more diffs or is this enough?Griswaldo (talk) 23:31, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Well I need more diffs because your "evidence" so far looks like a desperate attempt to incriminate an editor who has been very successful in persuading his colleagues to adopt his proposals. Anupam has presented his proposals, argued the merits and persuaded many editors. Anything you want to tell us about why you're having difficulty doing likewise? – Lionel (talk) 06:02, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- I don't see this is as conclusive evidence, either. And, it should be said - if people are editing against established consensus, then people are free to re-evaluate consensus, but edit-warring against it doesn't make much sense. m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- If not ownership then what is this - [28], [29], [30]? He removes two RfCs started by another editor, and revolving around the question that many of us actually find to be the fundamental question to answer regarding the entry. Then he edit wars to keep these RfCs off the page, claiming again to have some sort of authority stemming from your prior actions. If you aren't willing to do something here I'm going to another administrator and I'm going to ask for your initial "consensus," your strong arm administrating, and your lack of action here to be reviewed as well. Thanks.Griswaldo (talk) 17:08, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Anupam has already apologized for reverting those RfC additions, and we've moved past it. He also didn't claim to have administrative authority, but was waiting for my approval. We've cleared this up, it's not an issue. So no, I'm not going to take any action (as I've said here and on ANI). Now, if you'd like to threaten me and tell me that, since I'm not cooperating with your wills, you'll go to another administrator, that's fine - as I've said, you can seek outside opinions - but remember to keep a cool head, because borderline threats are not appreciated. m.o.p 21:49, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- It was not a threat, "borderline" or otherwise. You are conveniently ignoring a growing number of voices who are all saying the same thing - there is an ownership problem here. The deletion issue has not been "cleared up" as far as I'm concerned. Whenever it is mentioned Anupam insists that he did not "unilaterally" delete the RfCs from the page, which is a blatant distortion, since that is exactly what he did. He continues to act as a policeman at the page, and yes he does continue to cite your authority. Did you bother to read the many diffs I posted above in the second two sections? I will quote three random examples from those I provided for you if you want.
- When he first deleted the two RfCs he wrote: "rv - see discussion with reviewing administrator; approval needed to start another RfC while one is already occurring."
- When he deleted a fact tag that JimWae put into the lede: "rv excessive tagging per talk; tag is already extant in header; do not subvert previous consensus but gain consensus for potential additions per administrative notice"
- When he rejected another recent change to the entry: "accepted edits by User:Jkhwiki; rv removal of longstanding referenced content - see discussion on talk page and gain consensus for action per administrative injunction"
- In talk page comments and in edit summaries he consistently does the same thing. He refers to your authority, either directly or indirectly through your "notice" or your "injunction" as he likes to call it. I never said the claimed to have administrative authority, I said that he's using your authority, by way of your comments, such as the closure of the AfD to bully people. Do you deny that he citing your comments, because if you do then I must have fabricated those quotes. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:32, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
If you say "If you don't do A, then I'm going to go and do B", that's a threat. Anyway, that's not the issue - we've already covered all the issues with the RfC reverting, and Anupam won't do it again. Why keep raising hell over it?
We've already covered everything you bring up. And no, I'm not denying anything. I'm just saying this, and it's very simple: I don't think there has been any blatant ownership here. That's my judgment. If you disagree, again, feel free to raise this with another administrator or on ANI. m.o.p 23:12, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Regarding the new RFC, I still think there has not passed yet too much time since the last discussion about splitting the article. As far as I knew, repeating these sorts of debates (like splitting, deleting, renaming) before a larger amount of time has passed (like 6 months) is usually discouraged. And as others have also argued earlier, even if having multiple RFCs is possible, it's not very useful, and the new RFC seems to discourage further discussion about improving the lead introduction. So preventing multiple RFCs (and also a RFC about an issue debated not too long ago) does not look to me like evidence of bad faith intentions. Cody7777777 (talk) 21:37, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Cody, would you mind linking me to the previous RfC on splitting? m.o.p 21:49, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- The previous attempt to split the article can be found here. Cody7777777 (talk) 21:55, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Response
Yes, it does. Thanks, m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Dear User:Master of Puppets, I just noticed that User:Binksternet started another RfC while a current one is occurring. Is this appropriate? I reverted the addition motioning for one until your response is confirmed. If it is acceptable, then I apologize and will revert my edit. I look forward to your response. With regards, AnupamTalk 15:14, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'll form my reply on ANI. m.o.p 17:12, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- When you do please take into account my comment just above, regarding Anupam's edit warring to remove talk page comments (namely these RfCs) posted by others on the talk page. If you still don't think this is WP:OWN then clearly other administrators are needed here.Griswaldo (talk) 17:15, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Dear User:Griswaldo, how is going to a neutral mediator to address the issue owning the article? I acknowledge that the article is in dispute and as a result, I am asking an administrator for advice in this matter, NOT handling things on my own, as you have done by edit warring. Your WP:OWN allegations have not only been dismissed by this administrator, but by several other users, including, User:Lionelt, User:Cody7777777 and User:NYyankees51. Thanks, AnupamTalk 17:27, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- In reply to Griswaldo: reverting the RfCs was a mistake, but we've cleared that up now. As Anupam has stated at ANI, the intent was not to discourage discussion. If you think my judgment is compromised, you're welcome to seek another administrator's input. m.o.p 21:04, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- And as further evidence of WP:OWN, see this. Anupam adds a comment to everything that anyone else says, as if he/she is the owner of the article and everyone else is a subordinate contributor. This particular instance is pretty benign (although it clutters up the talk page with an unnecessary comment that merely says "I agree"), but I do think that Anupam at least needs to learn how to avoid giving the appearance of thinking he/she owns the article, and to desist from chipping in and saying the same thing over and over again, which almost makes meaningful discussion impossible! SNALWIBMA ( talk - contribs ) 17:31, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- While the input is appreciated, as I've said before, making allegations of ownership without hard evidence isn't going to get us anywhere. Anupam is not stopping others from discussing changes or forming consensus, and that's all that matters - refactoring the talk page or commenting on an issue is not against policy, and I'm not going to tell someone to stop editing because it "looks" like they're doing something wrong. As said above, you're welcome to request another administrator's insight if you wish. m.o.p 21:04, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
COIHi
you've helped me out before, with a conflict of interest problem, so having much more experience than me on wikipedia, I thought I would be bold enough to ask again for help.
Similar problem to last, User_talk:Hobbycraft is editing the HOBBYCRAFT article and making changes that aren't citably right. I think the user name suggest and history suggests a conflict of interest case.
Can you please, speak to them addressing this issue.
Thank you very much for your help.
Markcoulter50 (talk) 22:27, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
- I've blocked that user for username violations. Thanks a lot for letting me know! Keep up the great work, m.o.p 23:00, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkbackcausa sui (talk) 18:47, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Hello. You have a new message at causa sui's talk page. causa sui (talk) 20:54, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Problematic editing on militant atheism
- I hope it's not considered defamatory to repeat the final line: "I merely present the diffs above, and let others draw their own conclusions. Is this a duck? Does it quack? You decide.". Unfortunately, the concerned community no longer has that opportunity. What did you decide on their behalf? Does this duck quack, or not? bobrayner (talk) 15:42, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- It's not your wording, it's the very idea of it. Going to what's allegorically a public place and shouting, "Hey, everybody, this man is a criminal!" is one step below blatantly forming a lynch mob. As I've said, I have no problem with your wording or evidence, just your location of choice. Wikipedia is not, unfortunately, a democracy - letting others draw their conclusions and voice their opinions is not how a sockpuppet investigation works.
- So yes, please don't go restoring any of that section. We're not discussing editors, we're discussing the content they produce. Anything else has a sub-board to deal with it (like WP:SPI).
- Hopefully that clears things up! I'll be happy to answer any more questions should you have them. Cheers, m.o.p 15:48, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Hello User:Bobrayner, I noticed the section you created on the militant atheism talk page. If you do feel the way you do about User:Turnsalso and the anonymous IP Addresses, you can take this up with WP:SPI. Thanks, AnupamTalk 15:52, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
Are you kidding my MoP? Above your write: Going to what's allegorically a public place and shouting, "Hey, everybody, this man is a criminal!" is one step below blatantly forming a lynch mob. AND We're not discussing editors, we're discussing the content they produce. Yet you call this edit by Lionelt "good faith," at WQA? MoP, I would not ask you to agree with me or to like me, but can I please ask you not to insult me with these double standards.Griswaldo (talk) 16:18, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
]
- Griswaldo, I mean no offense when I say this, but I'd appreciate it if you stayed out of discussions which didn't involve you. Also, please don't put words in my mouth. Thanks, m.o.p 16:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I have not put words in your mouth. You said that you would assume good faith about Lionel. If you "assume good faith" it means you assume his edits were in "good faith." If you did not intend that meaning I suggest you reconsider what you wrote. Also, if you want me to "stay out of discussion which don't involve me" then I suggest your first order of business should be to do the same thing yourself. You decided to post at WQA, when there was no mention of you or anything you've done in that thread. Once again, I expect people not to practice double standards. So as long as you cannot show me that you will treat me as you ask to be treated yourself, I will not oblige you. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:21, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Please stop bickering. I'm not quite sure what you're trying to accomplish here. I've already explained what I meant when I said assuming good faith, but I'll explain again: I assumed that Lionelt was not hounding or deliberately haranguing you. I did not say, at any point, that his edit content was good faith, and I've told him not to edit like that again. So please stop accusing me of saying things I haven't said.
- Also, I posted in WQA because, as a mediator in this case and as an administrator, it's my duty to weigh in on administrative noticeboards, especially when the case is an ongoing discussion I've been participating in for three months. It is not your duty to weigh in on discussions on my talk page that don't concern you. I hope the distinction is clear here. m.o.p 20:33, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I think you are confused about something. Content is never good faith. "Editing in good faith" and "good faith edits" refers to the intent of the editor always. It has nothing to do with content. My assumption that you also felt the edits were appropriate comes from the fact that you did not say they weren't appropriate and clearly feel that his intentions were good. If you'd like to set the record straight on that issue you still can. I've asked you twice now to discuss the actual edits that are the focal point of the thread. Also, I moved the thread to ANI, per the suggestion of the editor who marked it "resolved."Griswaldo (talk) 20:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- See Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#User:Lionelt_--_following_my_past_edits_to_drum_up_support_against_me. FYI, I copy pasted the entire discussion because both you and Collect were critical of my initial post and I thought it was the right thing to do to preserve that criticism in the record of the conversation. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:43, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- In reply to your first paragraph: I'm going to give up now, as it seems you're misunderstanding most of what I type, but you're the one who stated that the content was not good faith (as you said, not appropriate), and I agreed - I referred to his intent in replying to you, and said that I assumed good faith in his motives, not his replies. I can't really say that in a clearer way, so my apologies if it's hard to understand. Also, as I've already said, I've left a message for Lionelt about his edits, so clearly I do not feel they're appropriate. m.o.p 20:57, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I, too, find these double standards vexing.
- Which diff is defamatory?
- I had hitherto thought that people on the article talkpage might like to be aware of potential problems with votestacking on the article talkpage (and 3rr evasion, of course). Would it be permitted to add a link to that list of diffs when it's in a different place, or would you consider that defamatory too? bobrayner (talk) 16:23, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- As I said, the information is not defamatory, but the way it's presented is - we have specific processes available to pursue should one feel there are sockpuppets about. However, calling someone out with the intent of informing the community is overstepping your authority and damaging to the accused's character. Also, there's no way a community discussion about whether or not one editor is a sockpuppet can end in anything other than a sockpuppet investigation anyway.
- So, in closing, please don't bring issues like this to the talk page. If you're concerned about votestacking, take it to the appropriate venue - if your concerns are validated, we'll take measures against said puppets. Cheers, m.o.p 16:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I am very disappointed that it's no longer permissible to raise problems with article-editing on the article talkpage. Previous concerns about sockpuppetry were simply ignored; the difference this time is that it's backed by lots of diffs.
- I'm fairly confident that the people concerned have sufficient technical nous to make checkuser draw a blank. And, let's be entirely honest, within minutes of me creating an SPI, an admin of the right persuasion will be getting an email suggesting that an SPI needs their attention. And SPI does not see offsite coordination by a facebook group &c. Finally, any null result at SPI will be used at the article in much the same way as previous administrative decisions have been. So, I do not believe that an SPI will improve either the article, or the encyclopædia as a whole. bobrayner (talk) 17:08, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- If you don't think the pre-existing methods set in place for situations like this are sufficient, you can always raise that concern at the village pump or suggest a policy revision - however, SPI is the venue for these requests, and the only venue. The talk page can not substitute. m.o.p 17:10, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
76.228.226.122Thank you for blocking the anonymous user, who is being counterproductive and rude. (although I think the block should have been one week, but I guess ok at least)
Can you also please try to hide the edit summaries of these edits if possible?
This and
this
Thanks and regards, talk 05:04, 26 September 2011 (UTC)]
- I'll extend the block if this behaviour continues after the block period is over.
- As for the edit summaries, those don't warrant hiding - I apologize for their content, but they don't meet the criteria of what I should remove. It's best just to ignore them for now. Cheers, m.o.p 05:13, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
- Okay, good to know, if I did nothing wrong, no permanent block will be enforced. The IP does not volunteer on WP as an admin and so the disproportionately out of line comments and threats of his should be ignored. --talk 05:19, 26 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Sounds good. We only hide extremely offensive revisions; milder ones stay in the edit history. Thanks again for bringing this to our attention! Cheers, m.o.p 05:31, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
Email
Jasper Deng (talk) 05:29, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
- Reading. talk) 06:00, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Bad Girls Club
- I've blocked Junebea for 2 days for disregarding warnings. m.o.p 20:30, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks for helping :) Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 21:06, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkback
- And again.Griswaldo (talk) 04:24, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
- And again ... but maybe the last. You can settle this question once and for all. See the talk page.Griswaldo (talk) 06:09, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'm sure I'm not alone in wanting to hear your replies to the last responses posed to you at that page. IMO, I don't know why you went down the road you did, but as far as I can tell you're blatantly misrepesenting facts about your own actions when people are brining concerns to you. You might think that since you closed the RfC the matter is settled, but it is not. You're actions have not made my life any more pleasant in the last few days vis-a-vis trying to deal with Anupam's disruption and I think you owe us all answers. So please revisit this thread and deal with the open questions. Thanks.Griswaldo (talk) 02:19, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
- I invite you to stop asking the same question again and again. This would be appreciated. Thanks, m.o.p 02:33, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Block question
- No, I just block obviously bad-faith accounts on sight. Advertising/spam accounts fall under that category. m.o.p 00:37, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Thanks
- Thank you. I've unlocked the article for whatever may come. If I'm needed again, feel free to let me know. Thanks for the kind words again, m.o.p 05:12, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
reminder
- We're still waiting to see if the user understands COI policy (per Ed's question). I'll prod the user and see if they'll answer. talk) 19:20, 30 September 2011 (UTC)]
Nextel logo deleted
- Mmm, good point. What's the link to the logo in question? m.o.p 01:33, 2 October 2011 (UTC)
Support of Sage City SymphonyYou deleted this page before I had a chance to go back in and add the stuff that you wanted to see, including the links within Wikipedia to important composers such as Lou Callabro (who started this orchestra and cites it in his Wikipedia page) and Susan Hurley whose work we premiered (SC is also mentioned in her Wikipedia entry). (Let alone links about the works we have performed.) And we have a web site at www.sagecitysymphony.org, have existed for over 35 yrs and are a significant cultural resource in the Bennington area such that we receive grants from local, statewide and national foundations.
I broke my wrist last weekend and am doing one-handed pecking so it'll take me a few days to get that loaded in. We are going out for a bit now, but I would appreciate your undeleting the page so that I don't have to re-invent the starting part when I go back in tomorrow to add links. Or delete it entirely so that I can start fresh - at this point either would work as long as I can start some serious work on it tomorrow. I am the webmaster by the way, so I do have access to content and more links.
Thank you, Celia Murray — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.228.127.119 (talk) 14:22, 1 October 2011 (UTC)
- It looks like fixed everything up. Best of luck, m.o.p 01:35, 2 October 2011 (UTC)]
Reply on Deterence's talk page
MA
After the beating you took you deserve a cold one--on me! Thanks for being fair and balanced – Lionel (talk) 03:55, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
- Hey, thanks! Glad to help out. :) m.o.p 03:56, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
Deletion of Mau5trap Recordings
--neocharles (talk) 07:33, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Existence does not equal notability - the subject has to be notable to get a Wikipedia page. m.o.p 12:05, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
Questoin re: AIV
- Addendum, actually, I read it very clearly in WP:VANDNOT: "Uploading or using material on Wikipedia in violation of Wikipedia's copyright policies is prohibited, but is not vandalism unless the user does so maliciously or fails to heed warnings." So if a person fails to heed warnings it is vandalism. My mistake here was that I only warned once. --Muhandes (talk) 12:29, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Eh, technically it is vandalism, but the user seems to be trying to improve the Wikipedia - that desire to help is misplaced in this case, as they seem to think that using copyrighted content is actually better. Weird. For most cases, yes, you should report copyvio to AIV - as long as they've been warned sufficiently. m.o.p 12:42, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- OK, he now did it again and the time stamp is after your last warning. Is it vandalism now? --Muhandes (talk) 12:32, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Yeah, if they're outright ignoring warnings. I've blocked for three days. m.o.p 12:40, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
Classmusic
- Oh, I know. But if somebody's lied to my face about using another account - and to other editors working on the article - I'm not about to let them go without a repercussion or two. I'd like Almost-instinct and Voceditnore to look over the article and fix up anything shifty. Also, I'd like Classmusic to respond to my warning, instead of blanking it and ignoring like they have to the above-named editors.
- So, in short, I know that COI doesn't bar editing, but it's enough of a concern that, given the user's recent behaviour, I'll stop them from doing anything until we've figured things out. This isn't too rouge-y, is it? I didn't hear that. Perhaps he is unaware of the sockpuppet investigation findings. Anyhow it seems that DeltaQuad has also blocked the Classmusic account. I left a note on his page about using the unblock template, but re-iterated that he needs to read the COI and Autobiography guidelines and stick to them scrupulously, if he gets unblocked. In the Opera and Classical Music WikiProjects, we get a lot of articles for performers, ensembles, etc. created by their agents and PR people, and often themselves. In my experience, the best I can hope for after one of these tussles is that they'll edit their article according to the guidelines in future. I have yet to find a single one who has ever contributed anything else to Wikipedia. Their only interest in the project is as a PR tool. Having said that, at least it results (after much red-pencilling from other editors) in one new article on a notable subject that we didn't have before and in a small way redresses the pop culture systemic bias here. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 13:40, 5 October 2011 (UTC)]
Danish election
- Never mind, it's been pulled by another admin. All the best, Jenks24 (talk) 11:03, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry about that! I was busy all day and didn't get your message until now. Thanks for letting me know, though! Cheers, m.o.p 19:51, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
3RRHey there! :)
Well WP:CRYSTAL has wined down, however, there's currently a
The Bad Girls Club (season 7). I have notified the two users [32], [33]. The evidence can be found here. They are having an edit-conflict on how the "Duration of cast" should be presented. Since there's no rules regarding anything like that, and it was made up about a year ago, I couldn't warned them to stop their e/c with anything except the 3RR rule. Maybe they need an admin to tell them to stop, so that's why I came to you :) Thanks, Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 01:17, 6 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Temporary page protection requested. Calabe1992 (talk) 01:29, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
- Because protection is what he wants quite clearly. He's stalling conversation and shouting down people on the talk page, where, if you have a look, you'll see he's clearly in the minority. Because of your "injunction" as he calls it, he also claims that no matter how many people agree with a certain change it is illegitimate. I'll be happy to gather some diffs, but my first message to you above was to please look into the situation carefully before acting on it. Did you do that and come to the conclusion that I'm wrong or did you not head that request? Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:29, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Yes, I did heed your request. I don't see any ownership behaviour from Anupam, though, being involved in multiple disputes, I didn't have the time to read every last word on the page, so you're free to provide evidence. However, from what I can see, Anupam's last proposal was supported by the majority - not to count (and I don't mean to imply that I decide where consensus lies by looking at pure numbers), but from looking at pure supports versus opposes, eight people (nine including Anupam) support while four oppose. How does that make Anupam's views a minority? m.o.p 22:37, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- It depends on what view you are talking about. The current RFC on the introduction is something that most people don't even want to engage because most people think this very entry should be split up and integrated into other entries. I reluctantly engaged the RfC just now myself. The last time the more serious question about the entry was asked, several of the new commentators were not around, and there was "no consensus" found because the opposing side was chalk full of SPAs and editors with a view that is outright hostile to atheism (which is a legitimate view to hold, but it is a minority view). Let me find you some diffs.Griswaldo (talk) 22:43, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- User:Griswaldo, that is exactly the issue: you do not want to collaborate with other users on the talk page, which is why you were reluctant to participate in the current RfC. Moreover, there were several SPA's on the side of the opposition as well, including WP:NPOV. In addition, the split was again recently discussed and the specific case to do so was refuted by several editors. As such, there was no consensus for it. I hope this helps. With regards, AnupamTalk 22:52, 20 September 2011 (UTC)]
- No. You are trying to write an article that violates WP:SYNTH because it conflates New Atheism with oppressive communist regimes and their histories of violence. That's hardly NPOV. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:59, 20 September 2011 (UTC)]
Hi m.o.p., as someone who occasionally looks at that page (and then washes my hands), I just want to compliment you as having done the right thing in full protecting. By way of unsolicited advice to the involved editors, the best thing they could do is to allow The Wrong Version to sit there a good long time, and devote their energy to other things. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:54, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Yes, please reconsider your full protection of
WP:RS—deserve protection against misinformed reverts. Thanks Geremia (talk) 16:12, 22 September 2011 (UTC)]
- No. You are trying to write an article that violates
- User:Griswaldo, that is exactly the issue: you do not want to collaborate with other users on the talk page, which is why you were reluctant to participate in the current RfC. Moreover, there were several SPA's on the side of the opposition as well, including
- It depends on what view you are talking about. The current RFC on the introduction is something that most people don't even want to engage because most people think this very entry should be split up and integrated into other entries. I reluctantly engaged the RfC just now myself. The last time the more serious question about the entry was asked, several of the new commentators were not around, and there was "no consensus" found because the opposing side was chalk full of SPAs and editors with a view that is outright hostile to atheism (which is a legitimate view to hold, but it is a minority view). Let me find you some diffs.Griswaldo (talk) 22:43, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Yes, I did heed your request. I don't see any ownership behaviour from Anupam, though, being involved in multiple disputes, I didn't have the time to read every last word on the page, so you're free to provide evidence. However, from what I can see, Anupam's last proposal was supported by the majority - not to count (and I don't mean to imply that I decide where consensus lies by looking at pure numbers), but from looking at pure supports versus opposes, eight people (nine including Anupam) support while four oppose. How does that make Anupam's views a minority? m.o.p 22:37, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Well clearly the last diff was wrong. Thanks for the vote of confidence. There are no repeat examples nor inaccurate summaries, just a mistaken copy paste of the second to last diff to the last position as well. I have fixed it. Cheers.
- I don't see this is as conclusive evidence, either. And, it should be said - if people are editing against established consensus, then people are free to re-evaluate consensus, but edit-warring against it doesn't make much sense. m.o.p 14:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- If not ownership then what is this - [28], [29], [30]? He removes two RfCs started by another editor, and revolving around the question that many of us actually find to be the fundamental question to answer regarding the entry. Then he edit wars to keep these RfCs off the page, claiming again to have some sort of authority stemming from your prior actions. If you aren't willing to do something here I'm going to another administrator and I'm going to ask for your initial "consensus," your strong arm administrating, and your lack of action here to be reviewed as well. Thanks.Griswaldo (talk) 17:08, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Anupam has already apologized for reverting those RfC additions, and we've moved past it. He also didn't claim to have administrative authority, but was waiting for my approval. We've cleared this up, it's not an issue. So no, I'm not going to take any action (as I've said here and on ANI). Now, if you'd like to threaten me and tell me that, since I'm not cooperating with your wills, you'll go to another administrator, that's fine - as I've said, you can seek outside opinions - but remember to keep a cool head, because borderline threats are not appreciated. m.o.p 21:49, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- It was not a threat, "borderline" or otherwise. You are conveniently ignoring a growing number of voices who are all saying the same thing - there is an ownership problem here. The deletion issue has not been "cleared up" as far as I'm concerned. Whenever it is mentioned Anupam insists that he did not "unilaterally" delete the RfCs from the page, which is a blatant distortion, since that is exactly what he did. He continues to act as a policeman at the page, and yes he does continue to cite your authority. Did you bother to read the many diffs I posted above in the second two sections? I will quote three random examples from those I provided for you if you want.
- When he first deleted the two RfCs he wrote: "rv - see discussion with reviewing administrator; approval needed to start another RfC while one is already occurring."
- When he deleted a fact tag that JimWae put into the lede: "rv excessive tagging per talk; tag is already extant in header; do not subvert previous consensus but gain consensus for potential additions per administrative notice"
- When he rejected another recent change to the entry: "accepted edits by User:Jkhwiki; rv removal of longstanding referenced content - see discussion on talk page and gain consensus for action per administrative injunction"
- In talk page comments and in edit summaries he consistently does the same thing. He refers to your authority, either directly or indirectly through your "notice" or your "injunction" as he likes to call it. I never said the claimed to have administrative authority, I said that he's using your authority, by way of your comments, such as the closure of the AfD to bully people. Do you deny that he citing your comments, because if you do then I must have fabricated those quotes. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 22:32, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- It was not a threat, "borderline" or otherwise. You are conveniently ignoring a growing number of voices who are all saying the same thing - there is an ownership problem here. The deletion issue has not been "cleared up" as far as I'm concerned. Whenever it is mentioned Anupam insists that he did not "unilaterally" delete the RfCs from the page, which is a blatant distortion, since that is exactly what he did. He continues to act as a policeman at the page, and yes he does continue to cite your authority. Did you bother to read the many diffs I posted above in the second two sections? I will quote three random examples from those I provided for you if you want.
- Anupam has already apologized for reverting those RfC additions, and we've moved past it. He also didn't claim to have administrative authority, but was waiting for my approval. We've cleared this up, it's not an issue. So no, I'm not going to take any action (as I've said here and on ANI). Now, if you'd like to threaten me and tell me that, since I'm not cooperating with your wills, you'll go to another administrator, that's fine - as I've said, you can seek outside opinions - but remember to keep a cool head, because borderline threats are not appreciated. m.o.p 21:49, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- If not ownership then what is this - [28], [29], [30]? He removes two RfCs started by another editor, and revolving around the question that many of us actually find to be the fundamental question to answer regarding the entry. Then he edit wars to keep these RfCs off the page, claiming again to have some sort of authority stemming from your prior actions. If you aren't willing to do something here I'm going to another administrator and I'm going to ask for your initial "consensus," your strong arm administrating, and your lack of action here to be reviewed as well. Thanks.Griswaldo (talk) 17:08, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
We've already covered everything you bring up. And no, I'm not denying anything. I'm just saying this, and it's very simple: I don't think there has been any blatant ownership here. That's my judgment. If you disagree, again, feel free to raise this with another administrator or on ANI. m.o.p 23:12, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Cody, would you mind linking me to the previous RfC on splitting? m.o.p 21:49, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- The previous attempt to split the article can be found here. Cody7777777 (talk) 21:55, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- When you do please take into account my comment just above, regarding Anupam's edit warring to remove talk page comments (namely these RfCs) posted by others on the talk page. If you still don't think this is WP:OWN then clearly other administrators are needed here.Griswaldo (talk) 17:15, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Dear User:Griswaldo, how is going to a neutral mediator to address the issue owning the article? I acknowledge that the article is in dispute and as a result, I am asking an administrator for advice in this matter, NOT handling things on my own, as you have done by edit warring. Your WP:OWN allegations have not only been dismissed by this administrator, but by several other users, including, User:Lionelt, User:Cody7777777 and User:NYyankees51. Thanks, AnupamTalk 17:27, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- In reply to Griswaldo: reverting the RfCs was a mistake, but we've cleared that up now. As Anupam has stated at ANI, the intent was not to discourage discussion. If you think my judgment is compromised, you're welcome to seek another administrator's input. m.o.p 21:04, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Dear User:Griswaldo, how is going to a neutral mediator to address the issue owning the article? I acknowledge that the article is in dispute and as a result, I am asking an administrator for advice in this matter, NOT handling things on my own, as you have done by edit warring. Your
- And as further evidence of WP:OWN, see this. Anupam adds a comment to everything that anyone else says, as if he/she is the owner of the article and everyone else is a subordinate contributor. This particular instance is pretty benign (although it clutters up the talk page with an unnecessary comment that merely says "I agree"), but I do think that Anupam at least needs to learn how to avoid giving the appearance of thinking he/she owns the article, and to desist from chipping in and saying the same thing over and over again, which almost makes meaningful discussion impossible! SNALWIBMA ( talk - contribs ) 17:31, 21 September 2011 (UTC)]
- While the input is appreciated, as I've said before, making allegations of ownership without hard evidence isn't going to get us anywhere. Anupam is not stopping others from discussing changes or forming consensus, and that's all that matters - refactoring the talk page or commenting on an issue is not against policy, and I'm not going to tell someone to stop editing because it "looks" like they're doing something wrong. As said above, you're welcome to request another administrator's insight if you wish. m.o.p 21:04, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
COIHi
you've helped me out before, with a conflict of interest problem, so having much more experience than me on wikipedia, I thought I would be bold enough to ask again for help.
Similar problem to last, User_talk:Hobbycraft is editing the HOBBYCRAFT article and making changes that aren't citably right. I think the user name suggest and history suggests a conflict of interest case.
Can you please, speak to them addressing this issue.
Thank you very much for your help.
Markcoulter50 (talk) 22:27, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
- I've blocked that user for username violations. Thanks a lot for letting me know! Keep up the great work, m.o.p 23:00, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkbackcausa sui (talk) 18:47, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Hello. You have a new message at causa sui's talk page. causa sui (talk) 20:54, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Problematic editing on militant atheism
- I hope it's not considered defamatory to repeat the final line: "I merely present the diffs above, and let others draw their own conclusions. Is this a duck? Does it quack? You decide.". Unfortunately, the concerned community no longer has that opportunity. What did you decide on their behalf? Does this duck quack, or not? bobrayner (talk) 15:42, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- It's not your wording, it's the very idea of it. Going to what's allegorically a public place and shouting, "Hey, everybody, this man is a criminal!" is one step below blatantly forming a lynch mob. As I've said, I have no problem with your wording or evidence, just your location of choice. Wikipedia is not, unfortunately, a democracy - letting others draw their conclusions and voice their opinions is not how a sockpuppet investigation works.
- So yes, please don't go restoring any of that section. We're not discussing editors, we're discussing the content they produce. Anything else has a sub-board to deal with it (like WP:SPI).
- Hopefully that clears things up! I'll be happy to answer any more questions should you have them. Cheers, m.o.p 15:48, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Hello User:Bobrayner, I noticed the section you created on the militant atheism talk page. If you do feel the way you do about User:Turnsalso and the anonymous IP Addresses, you can take this up with WP:SPI. Thanks, AnupamTalk 15:52, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
Are you kidding my MoP? Above your write: Going to what's allegorically a public place and shouting, "Hey, everybody, this man is a criminal!" is one step below blatantly forming a lynch mob. AND We're not discussing editors, we're discussing the content they produce. Yet you call this edit by Lionelt "good faith," at WQA? MoP, I would not ask you to agree with me or to like me, but can I please ask you not to insult me with these double standards.Griswaldo (talk) 16:18, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
]
- Griswaldo, I mean no offense when I say this, but I'd appreciate it if you stayed out of discussions which didn't involve you. Also, please don't put words in my mouth. Thanks, m.o.p 16:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I have not put words in your mouth. You said that you would assume good faith about Lionel. If you "assume good faith" it means you assume his edits were in "good faith." If you did not intend that meaning I suggest you reconsider what you wrote. Also, if you want me to "stay out of discussion which don't involve me" then I suggest your first order of business should be to do the same thing yourself. You decided to post at WQA, when there was no mention of you or anything you've done in that thread. Once again, I expect people not to practice double standards. So as long as you cannot show me that you will treat me as you ask to be treated yourself, I will not oblige you. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:21, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Please stop bickering. I'm not quite sure what you're trying to accomplish here. I've already explained what I meant when I said assuming good faith, but I'll explain again: I assumed that Lionelt was not hounding or deliberately haranguing you. I did not say, at any point, that his edit content was good faith, and I've told him not to edit like that again. So please stop accusing me of saying things I haven't said.
- Also, I posted in WQA because, as a mediator in this case and as an administrator, it's my duty to weigh in on administrative noticeboards, especially when the case is an ongoing discussion I've been participating in for three months. It is not your duty to weigh in on discussions on my talk page that don't concern you. I hope the distinction is clear here. m.o.p 20:33, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I think you are confused about something. Content is never good faith. "Editing in good faith" and "good faith edits" refers to the intent of the editor always. It has nothing to do with content. My assumption that you also felt the edits were appropriate comes from the fact that you did not say they weren't appropriate and clearly feel that his intentions were good. If you'd like to set the record straight on that issue you still can. I've asked you twice now to discuss the actual edits that are the focal point of the thread. Also, I moved the thread to ANI, per the suggestion of the editor who marked it "resolved."Griswaldo (talk) 20:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- See Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#User:Lionelt_--_following_my_past_edits_to_drum_up_support_against_me. FYI, I copy pasted the entire discussion because both you and Collect were critical of my initial post and I thought it was the right thing to do to preserve that criticism in the record of the conversation. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:43, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- In reply to your first paragraph: I'm going to give up now, as it seems you're misunderstanding most of what I type, but you're the one who stated that the content was not good faith (as you said, not appropriate), and I agreed - I referred to his intent in replying to you, and said that I assumed good faith in his motives, not his replies. I can't really say that in a clearer way, so my apologies if it's hard to understand. Also, as I've already said, I've left a message for Lionelt about his edits, so clearly I do not feel they're appropriate. m.o.p 20:57, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I, too, find these double standards vexing.
- Which diff is defamatory?
- I had hitherto thought that people on the article talkpage might like to be aware of potential problems with votestacking on the article talkpage (and 3rr evasion, of course). Would it be permitted to add a link to that list of diffs when it's in a different place, or would you consider that defamatory too? bobrayner (talk) 16:23, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- As I said, the information is not defamatory, but the way it's presented is - we have specific processes available to pursue should one feel there are sockpuppets about. However, calling someone out with the intent of informing the community is overstepping your authority and damaging to the accused's character. Also, there's no way a community discussion about whether or not one editor is a sockpuppet can end in anything other than a sockpuppet investigation anyway.
- So, in closing, please don't bring issues like this to the talk page. If you're concerned about votestacking, take it to the appropriate venue - if your concerns are validated, we'll take measures against said puppets. Cheers, m.o.p 16:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I am very disappointed that it's no longer permissible to raise problems with article-editing on the article talkpage. Previous concerns about sockpuppetry were simply ignored; the difference this time is that it's backed by lots of diffs.
- I'm fairly confident that the people concerned have sufficient technical nous to make checkuser draw a blank. And, let's be entirely honest, within minutes of me creating an SPI, an admin of the right persuasion will be getting an email suggesting that an SPI needs their attention. And SPI does not see offsite coordination by a facebook group &c. Finally, any null result at SPI will be used at the article in much the same way as previous administrative decisions have been. So, I do not believe that an SPI will improve either the article, or the encyclopædia as a whole. bobrayner (talk) 17:08, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- If you don't think the pre-existing methods set in place for situations like this are sufficient, you can always raise that concern at the village pump or suggest a policy revision - however, SPI is the venue for these requests, and the only venue. The talk page can not substitute. m.o.p 17:10, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
76.228.226.122Thank you for blocking the anonymous user, who is being counterproductive and rude. (although I think the block should have been one week, but I guess ok at least)
Can you also please try to hide the edit summaries of these edits if possible?
This and
this
Thanks and regards, talk 05:04, 26 September 2011 (UTC)]
- I'll extend the block if this behaviour continues after the block period is over.
- As for the edit summaries, those don't warrant hiding - I apologize for their content, but they don't meet the criteria of what I should remove. It's best just to ignore them for now. Cheers, m.o.p 05:13, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
- Okay, good to know, if I did nothing wrong, no permanent block will be enforced. The IP does not volunteer on WP as an admin and so the disproportionately out of line comments and threats of his should be ignored. --talk 05:19, 26 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Sounds good. We only hide extremely offensive revisions; milder ones stay in the edit history. Thanks again for bringing this to our attention! Cheers, m.o.p 05:31, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
Email
Jasper Deng (talk) 05:29, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
- Reading. talk) 06:00, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Bad Girls Club
- I've blocked Junebea for 2 days for disregarding warnings. m.o.p 20:30, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks for helping :) Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 21:06, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkback
- And again.Griswaldo (talk) 04:24, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
- And again ... but maybe the last. You can settle this question once and for all. See the talk page.Griswaldo (talk) 06:09, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'm sure I'm not alone in wanting to hear your replies to the last responses posed to you at that page. IMO, I don't know why you went down the road you did, but as far as I can tell you're blatantly misrepesenting facts about your own actions when people are brining concerns to you. You might think that since you closed the RfC the matter is settled, but it is not. You're actions have not made my life any more pleasant in the last few days vis-a-vis trying to deal with Anupam's disruption and I think you owe us all answers. So please revisit this thread and deal with the open questions. Thanks.Griswaldo (talk) 02:19, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
- I invite you to stop asking the same question again and again. This would be appreciated. Thanks, m.o.p 02:33, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Block question
- No, I just block obviously bad-faith accounts on sight. Advertising/spam accounts fall under that category. m.o.p 00:37, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Thanks
- Thank you. I've unlocked the article for whatever may come. If I'm needed again, feel free to let me know. Thanks for the kind words again, m.o.p 05:12, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
reminder
- We're still waiting to see if the user understands COI policy (per Ed's question). I'll prod the user and see if they'll answer. talk) 19:20, 30 September 2011 (UTC)]
Nextel logo deleted
- Mmm, good point. What's the link to the logo in question? m.o.p 01:33, 2 October 2011 (UTC)
Support of Sage City SymphonyYou deleted this page before I had a chance to go back in and add the stuff that you wanted to see, including the links within Wikipedia to important composers such as Lou Callabro (who started this orchestra and cites it in his Wikipedia page) and Susan Hurley whose work we premiered (SC is also mentioned in her Wikipedia entry). (Let alone links about the works we have performed.) And we have a web site at www.sagecitysymphony.org, have existed for over 35 yrs and are a significant cultural resource in the Bennington area such that we receive grants from local, statewide and national foundations.
I broke my wrist last weekend and am doing one-handed pecking so it'll take me a few days to get that loaded in. We are going out for a bit now, but I would appreciate your undeleting the page so that I don't have to re-invent the starting part when I go back in tomorrow to add links. Or delete it entirely so that I can start fresh - at this point either would work as long as I can start some serious work on it tomorrow. I am the webmaster by the way, so I do have access to content and more links.
Thank you, Celia Murray — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.228.127.119 (talk) 14:22, 1 October 2011 (UTC)
- It looks like fixed everything up. Best of luck, m.o.p 01:35, 2 October 2011 (UTC)]
Reply on Deterence's talk page
MA
After the beating you took you deserve a cold one--on me! Thanks for being fair and balanced – Lionel (talk) 03:55, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
- Hey, thanks! Glad to help out. :) m.o.p 03:56, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
Deletion of Mau5trap Recordings
--neocharles (talk) 07:33, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Existence does not equal notability - the subject has to be notable to get a Wikipedia page. m.o.p 12:05, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
Questoin re: AIV
- Addendum, actually, I read it very clearly in WP:VANDNOT: "Uploading or using material on Wikipedia in violation of Wikipedia's copyright policies is prohibited, but is not vandalism unless the user does so maliciously or fails to heed warnings." So if a person fails to heed warnings it is vandalism. My mistake here was that I only warned once. --Muhandes (talk) 12:29, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Eh, technically it is vandalism, but the user seems to be trying to improve the Wikipedia - that desire to help is misplaced in this case, as they seem to think that using copyrighted content is actually better. Weird. For most cases, yes, you should report copyvio to AIV - as long as they've been warned sufficiently. m.o.p 12:42, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- OK, he now did it again and the time stamp is after your last warning. Is it vandalism now? --Muhandes (talk) 12:32, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Yeah, if they're outright ignoring warnings. I've blocked for three days. m.o.p 12:40, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
Classmusic
- Oh, I know. But if somebody's lied to my face about using another account - and to other editors working on the article - I'm not about to let them go without a repercussion or two. I'd like Almost-instinct and Voceditnore to look over the article and fix up anything shifty. Also, I'd like Classmusic to respond to my warning, instead of blanking it and ignoring like they have to the above-named editors.
- So, in short, I know that COI doesn't bar editing, but it's enough of a concern that, given the user's recent behaviour, I'll stop them from doing anything until we've figured things out. This isn't too rouge-y, is it? I didn't hear that. Perhaps he is unaware of the sockpuppet investigation findings. Anyhow it seems that DeltaQuad has also blocked the Classmusic account. I left a note on his page about using the unblock template, but re-iterated that he needs to read the COI and Autobiography guidelines and stick to them scrupulously, if he gets unblocked. In the Opera and Classical Music WikiProjects, we get a lot of articles for performers, ensembles, etc. created by their agents and PR people, and often themselves. In my experience, the best I can hope for after one of these tussles is that they'll edit their article according to the guidelines in future. I have yet to find a single one who has ever contributed anything else to Wikipedia. Their only interest in the project is as a PR tool. Having said that, at least it results (after much red-pencilling from other editors) in one new article on a notable subject that we didn't have before and in a small way redresses the pop culture systemic bias here. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 13:40, 5 October 2011 (UTC)]
Danish election
- Never mind, it's been pulled by another admin. All the best, Jenks24 (talk) 11:03, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry about that! I was busy all day and didn't get your message until now. Thanks for letting me know, though! Cheers, m.o.p 19:51, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
3RRHey there! :)
Well WP:CRYSTAL has wined down, however, there's currently a
The Bad Girls Club (season 7). I have notified the two users [32], [33]. The evidence can be found here. They are having an edit-conflict on how the "Duration of cast" should be presented. Since there's no rules regarding anything like that, and it was made up about a year ago, I couldn't warned them to stop their e/c with anything except the 3RR rule. Maybe they need an admin to tell them to stop, so that's why I came to you :) Thanks, Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 01:17, 6 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Temporary page protection requested. Calabe1992 (talk) 01:29, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
Problematic editing on militant atheism
- I hope it's not considered defamatory to repeat the final line: "I merely present the diffs above, and let others draw their own conclusions. Is this a duck? Does it quack? You decide.". Unfortunately, the concerned community no longer has that opportunity. What did you decide on their behalf? Does this duck quack, or not? bobrayner (talk) 15:42, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- It's not your wording, it's the very idea of it. Going to what's allegorically a public place and shouting, "Hey, everybody, this man is a criminal!" is one step below blatantly forming a lynch mob. As I've said, I have no problem with your wording or evidence, just your location of choice. Wikipedia is not, unfortunately, a democracy - letting others draw their conclusions and voice their opinions is not how a sockpuppet investigation works.
- So yes, please don't go restoring any of that section. We're not discussing editors, we're discussing the content they produce. Anything else has a sub-board to deal with it (like WP:SPI).
- Hopefully that clears things up! I'll be happy to answer any more questions should you have them. Cheers, m.o.p 15:48, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Hello User:Bobrayner, I noticed the section you created on the militant atheism talk page. If you do feel the way you do about User:Turnsalso and the anonymous IP Addresses, you can take this up with WP:SPI. Thanks, AnupamTalk 15:52, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
Are you kidding my MoP? Above your write: Going to what's allegorically a public place and shouting, "Hey, everybody, this man is a criminal!" is one step below blatantly forming a lynch mob. AND We're not discussing editors, we're discussing the content they produce. Yet you call this edit by Lionelt "good faith," at WQA? MoP, I would not ask you to agree with me or to like me, but can I please ask you not to insult me with these double standards.Griswaldo (talk) 16:18, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
]
- Griswaldo, I mean no offense when I say this, but I'd appreciate it if you stayed out of discussions which didn't involve you. Also, please don't put words in my mouth. Thanks, m.o.p 16:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I have not put words in your mouth. You said that you would assume good faith about Lionel. If you "assume good faith" it means you assume his edits were in "good faith." If you did not intend that meaning I suggest you reconsider what you wrote. Also, if you want me to "stay out of discussion which don't involve me" then I suggest your first order of business should be to do the same thing yourself. You decided to post at WQA, when there was no mention of you or anything you've done in that thread. Once again, I expect people not to practice double standards. So as long as you cannot show me that you will treat me as you ask to be treated yourself, I will not oblige you. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:21, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Please stop bickering. I'm not quite sure what you're trying to accomplish here. I've already explained what I meant when I said assuming good faith, but I'll explain again: I assumed that Lionelt was not hounding or deliberately haranguing you. I did not say, at any point, that his edit content was good faith, and I've told him not to edit like that again. So please stop accusing me of saying things I haven't said.
- Also, I posted in WQA because, as a mediator in this case and as an administrator, it's my duty to weigh in on administrative noticeboards, especially when the case is an ongoing discussion I've been participating in for three months. It is not your duty to weigh in on discussions on my talk page that don't concern you. I hope the distinction is clear here. m.o.p 20:33, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I think you are confused about something. Content is never good faith. "Editing in good faith" and "good faith edits" refers to the intent of the editor always. It has nothing to do with content. My assumption that you also felt the edits were appropriate comes from the fact that you did not say they weren't appropriate and clearly feel that his intentions were good. If you'd like to set the record straight on that issue you still can. I've asked you twice now to discuss the actual edits that are the focal point of the thread. Also, I moved the thread to ANI, per the suggestion of the editor who marked it "resolved."Griswaldo (talk) 20:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- See Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#User:Lionelt_--_following_my_past_edits_to_drum_up_support_against_me. FYI, I copy pasted the entire discussion because both you and Collect were critical of my initial post and I thought it was the right thing to do to preserve that criticism in the record of the conversation. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:43, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- In reply to your first paragraph: I'm going to give up now, as it seems you're misunderstanding most of what I type, but you're the one who stated that the content was not good faith (as you said, not appropriate), and I agreed - I referred to his intent in replying to you, and said that I assumed good faith in his motives, not his replies. I can't really say that in a clearer way, so my apologies if it's hard to understand. Also, as I've already said, I've left a message for Lionelt about his edits, so clearly I do not feel they're appropriate. m.o.p 20:57, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I, too, find these double standards vexing.
- Which diff is defamatory?
- I had hitherto thought that people on the article talkpage might like to be aware of potential problems with votestacking on the article talkpage (and 3rr evasion, of course). Would it be permitted to add a link to that list of diffs when it's in a different place, or would you consider that defamatory too? bobrayner (talk) 16:23, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- As I said, the information is not defamatory, but the way it's presented is - we have specific processes available to pursue should one feel there are sockpuppets about. However, calling someone out with the intent of informing the community is overstepping your authority and damaging to the accused's character. Also, there's no way a community discussion about whether or not one editor is a sockpuppet can end in anything other than a sockpuppet investigation anyway.
- So, in closing, please don't bring issues like this to the talk page. If you're concerned about votestacking, take it to the appropriate venue - if your concerns are validated, we'll take measures against said puppets. Cheers, m.o.p 16:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I am very disappointed that it's no longer permissible to raise problems with article-editing on the article talkpage. Previous concerns about sockpuppetry were simply ignored; the difference this time is that it's backed by lots of diffs.
- I'm fairly confident that the people concerned have sufficient technical nous to make checkuser draw a blank. And, let's be entirely honest, within minutes of me creating an SPI, an admin of the right persuasion will be getting an email suggesting that an SPI needs their attention. And SPI does not see offsite coordination by a facebook group &c. Finally, any null result at SPI will be used at the article in much the same way as previous administrative decisions have been. So, I do not believe that an SPI will improve either the article, or the encyclopædia as a whole. bobrayner (talk) 17:08, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- If you don't think the pre-existing methods set in place for situations like this are sufficient, you can always raise that concern at the village pump or suggest a policy revision - however, SPI is the venue for these requests, and the only venue. The talk page can not substitute. m.o.p 17:10, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
76.228.226.122Thank you for blocking the anonymous user, who is being counterproductive and rude. (although I think the block should have been one week, but I guess ok at least)
Can you also please try to hide the edit summaries of these edits if possible?
This and
this
Thanks and regards, talk 05:04, 26 September 2011 (UTC)]
- I'll extend the block if this behaviour continues after the block period is over.
- As for the edit summaries, those don't warrant hiding - I apologize for their content, but they don't meet the criteria of what I should remove. It's best just to ignore them for now. Cheers, m.o.p 05:13, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
- Okay, good to know, if I did nothing wrong, no permanent block will be enforced. The IP does not volunteer on WP as an admin and so the disproportionately out of line comments and threats of his should be ignored. --talk 05:19, 26 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Sounds good. We only hide extremely offensive revisions; milder ones stay in the edit history. Thanks again for bringing this to our attention! Cheers, m.o.p 05:31, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
Email
Jasper Deng (talk) 05:29, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
- Reading. talk) 06:00, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Bad Girls Club
- I've blocked Junebea for 2 days for disregarding warnings. m.o.p 20:30, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks for helping :) Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 21:06, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkback
- And again.Griswaldo (talk) 04:24, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
- And again ... but maybe the last. You can settle this question once and for all. See the talk page.Griswaldo (talk) 06:09, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'm sure I'm not alone in wanting to hear your replies to the last responses posed to you at that page. IMO, I don't know why you went down the road you did, but as far as I can tell you're blatantly misrepesenting facts about your own actions when people are brining concerns to you. You might think that since you closed the RfC the matter is settled, but it is not. You're actions have not made my life any more pleasant in the last few days vis-a-vis trying to deal with Anupam's disruption and I think you owe us all answers. So please revisit this thread and deal with the open questions. Thanks.Griswaldo (talk) 02:19, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
- I invite you to stop asking the same question again and again. This would be appreciated. Thanks, m.o.p 02:33, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Block question
- No, I just block obviously bad-faith accounts on sight. Advertising/spam accounts fall under that category. m.o.p 00:37, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Thanks
- Thank you. I've unlocked the article for whatever may come. If I'm needed again, feel free to let me know. Thanks for the kind words again, m.o.p 05:12, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
reminder
- We're still waiting to see if the user understands COI policy (per Ed's question). I'll prod the user and see if they'll answer. talk) 19:20, 30 September 2011 (UTC)]
Nextel logo deleted
- Mmm, good point. What's the link to the logo in question? m.o.p 01:33, 2 October 2011 (UTC)
Support of Sage City SymphonyYou deleted this page before I had a chance to go back in and add the stuff that you wanted to see, including the links within Wikipedia to important composers such as Lou Callabro (who started this orchestra and cites it in his Wikipedia page) and Susan Hurley whose work we premiered (SC is also mentioned in her Wikipedia entry). (Let alone links about the works we have performed.) And we have a web site at www.sagecitysymphony.org, have existed for over 35 yrs and are a significant cultural resource in the Bennington area such that we receive grants from local, statewide and national foundations.
I broke my wrist last weekend and am doing one-handed pecking so it'll take me a few days to get that loaded in. We are going out for a bit now, but I would appreciate your undeleting the page so that I don't have to re-invent the starting part when I go back in tomorrow to add links. Or delete it entirely so that I can start fresh - at this point either would work as long as I can start some serious work on it tomorrow. I am the webmaster by the way, so I do have access to content and more links.
Thank you, Celia Murray — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.228.127.119 (talk) 14:22, 1 October 2011 (UTC)
- It looks like fixed everything up. Best of luck, m.o.p 01:35, 2 October 2011 (UTC)]
Reply on Deterence's talk page
MA
After the beating you took you deserve a cold one--on me! Thanks for being fair and balanced – Lionel (talk) 03:55, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
- Hey, thanks! Glad to help out. :) m.o.p 03:56, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
Deletion of Mau5trap Recordings
--neocharles (talk) 07:33, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Existence does not equal notability - the subject has to be notable to get a Wikipedia page. m.o.p 12:05, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
Questoin re: AIV
- Addendum, actually, I read it very clearly in WP:VANDNOT: "Uploading or using material on Wikipedia in violation of Wikipedia's copyright policies is prohibited, but is not vandalism unless the user does so maliciously or fails to heed warnings." So if a person fails to heed warnings it is vandalism. My mistake here was that I only warned once. --Muhandes (talk) 12:29, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Eh, technically it is vandalism, but the user seems to be trying to improve the Wikipedia - that desire to help is misplaced in this case, as they seem to think that using copyrighted content is actually better. Weird. For most cases, yes, you should report copyvio to AIV - as long as they've been warned sufficiently. m.o.p 12:42, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- OK, he now did it again and the time stamp is after your last warning. Is it vandalism now? --Muhandes (talk) 12:32, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Yeah, if they're outright ignoring warnings. I've blocked for three days. m.o.p 12:40, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
Classmusic
- Oh, I know. But if somebody's lied to my face about using another account - and to other editors working on the article - I'm not about to let them go without a repercussion or two. I'd like Almost-instinct and Voceditnore to look over the article and fix up anything shifty. Also, I'd like Classmusic to respond to my warning, instead of blanking it and ignoring like they have to the above-named editors.
- So, in short, I know that COI doesn't bar editing, but it's enough of a concern that, given the user's recent behaviour, I'll stop them from doing anything until we've figured things out. This isn't too rouge-y, is it? I didn't hear that. Perhaps he is unaware of the sockpuppet investigation findings. Anyhow it seems that DeltaQuad has also blocked the Classmusic account. I left a note on his page about using the unblock template, but re-iterated that he needs to read the COI and Autobiography guidelines and stick to them scrupulously, if he gets unblocked. In the Opera and Classical Music WikiProjects, we get a lot of articles for performers, ensembles, etc. created by their agents and PR people, and often themselves. In my experience, the best I can hope for after one of these tussles is that they'll edit their article according to the guidelines in future. I have yet to find a single one who has ever contributed anything else to Wikipedia. Their only interest in the project is as a PR tool. Having said that, at least it results (after much red-pencilling from other editors) in one new article on a notable subject that we didn't have before and in a small way redresses the pop culture systemic bias here. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 13:40, 5 October 2011 (UTC)]
Danish election
- Never mind, it's been pulled by another admin. All the best, Jenks24 (talk) 11:03, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry about that! I was busy all day and didn't get your message until now. Thanks for letting me know, though! Cheers, m.o.p 19:51, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
3RRHey there! :)
Well WP:CRYSTAL has wined down, however, there's currently a
The Bad Girls Club (season 7). I have notified the two users [32], [33]. The evidence can be found here. They are having an edit-conflict on how the "Duration of cast" should be presented. Since there's no rules regarding anything like that, and it was made up about a year ago, I couldn't warned them to stop their e/c with anything except the 3RR rule. Maybe they need an admin to tell them to stop, so that's why I came to you :) Thanks, Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 01:17, 6 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Temporary page protection requested. Calabe1992 (talk) 01:29, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
- It's not your wording, it's the very idea of it. Going to what's allegorically a public place and shouting, "Hey, everybody, this man is a criminal!" is one step below blatantly forming a lynch mob. As I've said, I have no problem with your wording or evidence, just your location of choice. Wikipedia is not, unfortunately, a democracy - letting others draw their conclusions and voice their opinions is not how a sockpuppet investigation works.
- So yes, please don't go restoring any of that section. We're not discussing editors, we're discussing the content they produce. Anything else has a sub-board to deal with it (like WP:SPI).
- Hopefully that clears things up! I'll be happy to answer any more questions should you have them. Cheers, m.o.p 15:48, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Hello User:Bobrayner, I noticed the section you created on the militant atheism talk page. If you do feel the way you do about User:Turnsalso and the anonymous IP Addresses, you can take this up with WP:SPI. Thanks, AnupamTalk 15:52, 25 September 2011 (UTC)]
Are you kidding my MoP? Above your write: Going to what's allegorically a public place and shouting, "Hey, everybody, this man is a criminal!" is one step below blatantly forming a lynch mob. AND We're not discussing editors, we're discussing the content they produce. Yet you call this edit by Lionelt "good faith," at WQA? MoP, I would not ask you to agree with me or to like me, but can I please ask you not to insult me with these double standards.Griswaldo (talk) 16:18, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Hello User:Bobrayner, I noticed the section you created on the militant atheism talk page. If you do feel the way you do about User:Turnsalso and the anonymous IP Addresses, you can take this up with
- I have not put words in your mouth. You said that you would assume good faith about Lionel. If you "assume good faith" it means you assume his edits were in "good faith." If you did not intend that meaning I suggest you reconsider what you wrote. Also, if you want me to "stay out of discussion which don't involve me" then I suggest your first order of business should be to do the same thing yourself. You decided to post at WQA, when there was no mention of you or anything you've done in that thread. Once again, I expect people not to practice double standards. So as long as you cannot show me that you will treat me as you ask to be treated yourself, I will not oblige you. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:21, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Please stop bickering. I'm not quite sure what you're trying to accomplish here. I've already explained what I meant when I said assuming good faith, but I'll explain again: I assumed that Lionelt was not hounding or deliberately haranguing you. I did not say, at any point, that his edit content was good faith, and I've told him not to edit like that again. So please stop accusing me of saying things I haven't said.
- Also, I posted in WQA because, as a mediator in this case and as an administrator, it's my duty to weigh in on administrative noticeboards, especially when the case is an ongoing discussion I've been participating in for three months. It is not your duty to weigh in on discussions on my talk page that don't concern you. I hope the distinction is clear here. m.o.p 20:33, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I think you are confused about something. Content is never good faith. "Editing in good faith" and "good faith edits" refers to the intent of the editor always. It has nothing to do with content. My assumption that you also felt the edits were appropriate comes from the fact that you did not say they weren't appropriate and clearly feel that his intentions were good. If you'd like to set the record straight on that issue you still can. I've asked you twice now to discuss the actual edits that are the focal point of the thread. Also, I moved the thread to ANI, per the suggestion of the editor who marked it "resolved."Griswaldo (talk) 20:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- See Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#User:Lionelt_--_following_my_past_edits_to_drum_up_support_against_me. FYI, I copy pasted the entire discussion because both you and Collect were critical of my initial post and I thought it was the right thing to do to preserve that criticism in the record of the conversation. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 20:43, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- In reply to your first paragraph: I'm going to give up now, as it seems you're misunderstanding most of what I type, but you're the one who stated that the content was not good faith (as you said, not appropriate), and I agreed - I referred to his intent in replying to you, and said that I assumed good faith in his motives, not his replies. I can't really say that in a clearer way, so my apologies if it's hard to understand. Also, as I've already said, I've left a message for Lionelt about his edits, so clearly I do not feel they're appropriate. m.o.p 20:57, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- As I said, the information is not defamatory, but the way it's presented is - we have specific processes available to pursue should one feel there are sockpuppets about. However, calling someone out with the intent of informing the community is overstepping your authority and damaging to the accused's character. Also, there's no way a community discussion about whether or not one editor is a sockpuppet can end in anything other than a sockpuppet investigation anyway.
- So, in closing, please don't bring issues like this to the talk page. If you're concerned about votestacking, take it to the appropriate venue - if your concerns are validated, we'll take measures against said puppets. Cheers, m.o.p 16:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I am very disappointed that it's no longer permissible to raise problems with article-editing on the article talkpage. Previous concerns about sockpuppetry were simply ignored; the difference this time is that it's backed by lots of diffs.
- I'm fairly confident that the people concerned have sufficient technical nous to make checkuser draw a blank. And, let's be entirely honest, within minutes of me creating an SPI, an admin of the right persuasion will be getting an email suggesting that an SPI needs their attention. And SPI does not see offsite coordination by a facebook group &c. Finally, any null result at SPI will be used at the article in much the same way as previous administrative decisions have been. So, I do not believe that an SPI will improve either the article, or the encyclopædia as a whole. bobrayner (talk) 17:08, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- If you don't think the pre-existing methods set in place for situations like this are sufficient, you can always raise that concern at the village pump or suggest a policy revision - however, SPI is the venue for these requests, and the only venue. The talk page can not substitute. m.o.p 17:10, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
76.228.226.122Thank you for blocking the anonymous user, who is being counterproductive and rude. (although I think the block should have been one week, but I guess ok at least)
Can you also please try to hide the edit summaries of these edits if possible? This and this
Thanks and regards,
- I'll extend the block if this behaviour continues after the block period is over.
- As for the edit summaries, those don't warrant hiding - I apologize for their content, but they don't meet the criteria of what I should remove. It's best just to ignore them for now. Cheers, m.o.p 05:13, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
- Okay, good to know, if I did nothing wrong, no permanent block will be enforced. The IP does not volunteer on WP as an admin and so the disproportionately out of line comments and threats of his should be ignored. --talk 05:19, 26 September 2011 (UTC)]
- Sounds good. We only hide extremely offensive revisions; milder ones stay in the edit history. Thanks again for bringing this to our attention! Cheers, m.o.p 05:31, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
- Okay, good to know, if I did nothing wrong, no permanent block will be enforced. The IP does not volunteer on WP as an admin and so the disproportionately out of line comments and threats of his should be ignored. --
Jasper Deng (talk) 05:29, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
- Reading. talk) 06:00, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Bad Girls Club
- I've blocked Junebea for 2 days for disregarding warnings. m.o.p 20:30, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks for helping :) Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 21:06, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkback
- And again.Griswaldo (talk) 04:24, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
- And again ... but maybe the last. You can settle this question once and for all. See the talk page.Griswaldo (talk) 06:09, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'm sure I'm not alone in wanting to hear your replies to the last responses posed to you at that page. IMO, I don't know why you went down the road you did, but as far as I can tell you're blatantly misrepesenting facts about your own actions when people are brining concerns to you. You might think that since you closed the RfC the matter is settled, but it is not. You're actions have not made my life any more pleasant in the last few days vis-a-vis trying to deal with Anupam's disruption and I think you owe us all answers. So please revisit this thread and deal with the open questions. Thanks.Griswaldo (talk) 02:19, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
- I invite you to stop asking the same question again and again. This would be appreciated. Thanks, m.o.p 02:33, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Block question
- No, I just block obviously bad-faith accounts on sight. Advertising/spam accounts fall under that category. m.o.p 00:37, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Thanks
- Thank you. I've unlocked the article for whatever may come. If I'm needed again, feel free to let me know. Thanks for the kind words again, m.o.p 05:12, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
reminder
- We're still waiting to see if the user understands COI policy (per Ed's question). I'll prod the user and see if they'll answer. talk) 19:20, 30 September 2011 (UTC)]
Nextel logo deleted
- Mmm, good point. What's the link to the logo in question? m.o.p 01:33, 2 October 2011 (UTC)
Support of Sage City SymphonyYou deleted this page before I had a chance to go back in and add the stuff that you wanted to see, including the links within Wikipedia to important composers such as Lou Callabro (who started this orchestra and cites it in his Wikipedia page) and Susan Hurley whose work we premiered (SC is also mentioned in her Wikipedia entry). (Let alone links about the works we have performed.) And we have a web site at www.sagecitysymphony.org, have existed for over 35 yrs and are a significant cultural resource in the Bennington area such that we receive grants from local, statewide and national foundations.
I broke my wrist last weekend and am doing one-handed pecking so it'll take me a few days to get that loaded in. We are going out for a bit now, but I would appreciate your undeleting the page so that I don't have to re-invent the starting part when I go back in tomorrow to add links. Or delete it entirely so that I can start fresh - at this point either would work as long as I can start some serious work on it tomorrow. I am the webmaster by the way, so I do have access to content and more links.
Thank you, Celia Murray — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.228.127.119 (talk) 14:22, 1 October 2011 (UTC)
- It looks like fixed everything up. Best of luck, m.o.p 01:35, 2 October 2011 (UTC)]
Reply on Deterence's talk page
MA
After the beating you took you deserve a cold one--on me! Thanks for being fair and balanced – Lionel (talk) 03:55, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
- Hey, thanks! Glad to help out. :) m.o.p 03:56, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
Deletion of Mau5trap Recordings
--neocharles (talk) 07:33, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Existence does not equal notability - the subject has to be notable to get a Wikipedia page. m.o.p 12:05, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
Questoin re: AIV
- Addendum, actually, I read it very clearly in WP:VANDNOT: "Uploading or using material on Wikipedia in violation of Wikipedia's copyright policies is prohibited, but is not vandalism unless the user does so maliciously or fails to heed warnings." So if a person fails to heed warnings it is vandalism. My mistake here was that I only warned once. --Muhandes (talk) 12:29, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Eh, technically it is vandalism, but the user seems to be trying to improve the Wikipedia - that desire to help is misplaced in this case, as they seem to think that using copyrighted content is actually better. Weird. For most cases, yes, you should report copyvio to AIV - as long as they've been warned sufficiently. m.o.p 12:42, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- OK, he now did it again and the time stamp is after your last warning. Is it vandalism now? --Muhandes (talk) 12:32, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Yeah, if they're outright ignoring warnings. I've blocked for three days. m.o.p 12:40, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
Classmusic
- Oh, I know. But if somebody's lied to my face about using another account - and to other editors working on the article - I'm not about to let them go without a repercussion or two. I'd like Almost-instinct and Voceditnore to look over the article and fix up anything shifty. Also, I'd like Classmusic to respond to my warning, instead of blanking it and ignoring like they have to the above-named editors.
- So, in short, I know that COI doesn't bar editing, but it's enough of a concern that, given the user's recent behaviour, I'll stop them from doing anything until we've figured things out. This isn't too rouge-y, is it? I didn't hear that. Perhaps he is unaware of the sockpuppet investigation findings. Anyhow it seems that DeltaQuad has also blocked the Classmusic account. I left a note on his page about using the unblock template, but re-iterated that he needs to read the COI and Autobiography guidelines and stick to them scrupulously, if he gets unblocked. In the Opera and Classical Music WikiProjects, we get a lot of articles for performers, ensembles, etc. created by their agents and PR people, and often themselves. In my experience, the best I can hope for after one of these tussles is that they'll edit their article according to the guidelines in future. I have yet to find a single one who has ever contributed anything else to Wikipedia. Their only interest in the project is as a PR tool. Having said that, at least it results (after much red-pencilling from other editors) in one new article on a notable subject that we didn't have before and in a small way redresses the pop culture systemic bias here. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 13:40, 5 October 2011 (UTC)]
Danish election
- Never mind, it's been pulled by another admin. All the best, Jenks24 (talk) 11:03, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry about that! I was busy all day and didn't get your message until now. Thanks for letting me know, though! Cheers, m.o.p 19:51, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
3RRHey there! :)
Well WP:CRYSTAL has wined down, however, there's currently a
The Bad Girls Club (season 7). I have notified the two users [32], [33]. The evidence can be found here. They are having an edit-conflict on how the "Duration of cast" should be presented. Since there's no rules regarding anything like that, and it was made up about a year ago, I couldn't warned them to stop their e/c with anything except the 3RR rule. Maybe they need an admin to tell them to stop, so that's why I came to you :) Thanks, Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 01:17, 6 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Temporary page protection requested. Calabe1992 (talk) 01:29, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks for helping :) Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 21:06, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Talkback
- And again.Griswaldo (talk) 04:24, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
- And again ... but maybe the last. You can settle this question once and for all. See the talk page.Griswaldo (talk) 06:09, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'm sure I'm not alone in wanting to hear your replies to the last responses posed to you at that page. IMO, I don't know why you went down the road you did, but as far as I can tell you're blatantly misrepesenting facts about your own actions when people are brining concerns to you. You might think that since you closed the RfC the matter is settled, but it is not. You're actions have not made my life any more pleasant in the last few days vis-a-vis trying to deal with Anupam's disruption and I think you owe us all answers. So please revisit this thread and deal with the open questions. Thanks.Griswaldo (talk) 02:19, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
- I invite you to stop asking the same question again and again. This would be appreciated. Thanks, m.o.p 02:33, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Block question
- No, I just block obviously bad-faith accounts on sight. Advertising/spam accounts fall under that category. m.o.p 00:37, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Thanks
- Thank you. I've unlocked the article for whatever may come. If I'm needed again, feel free to let me know. Thanks for the kind words again, m.o.p 05:12, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
reminder
- We're still waiting to see if the user understands COI policy (per Ed's question). I'll prod the user and see if they'll answer. talk) 19:20, 30 September 2011 (UTC)]
Nextel logo deleted
- Mmm, good point. What's the link to the logo in question? m.o.p 01:33, 2 October 2011 (UTC)
Support of Sage City SymphonyYou deleted this page before I had a chance to go back in and add the stuff that you wanted to see, including the links within Wikipedia to important composers such as Lou Callabro (who started this orchestra and cites it in his Wikipedia page) and Susan Hurley whose work we premiered (SC is also mentioned in her Wikipedia entry). (Let alone links about the works we have performed.) And we have a web site at www.sagecitysymphony.org, have existed for over 35 yrs and are a significant cultural resource in the Bennington area such that we receive grants from local, statewide and national foundations.
I broke my wrist last weekend and am doing one-handed pecking so it'll take me a few days to get that loaded in. We are going out for a bit now, but I would appreciate your undeleting the page so that I don't have to re-invent the starting part when I go back in tomorrow to add links. Or delete it entirely so that I can start fresh - at this point either would work as long as I can start some serious work on it tomorrow. I am the webmaster by the way, so I do have access to content and more links.
Thank you, Celia Murray — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.228.127.119 (talk) 14:22, 1 October 2011 (UTC)
- It looks like fixed everything up. Best of luck, m.o.p 01:35, 2 October 2011 (UTC)]
Reply on Deterence's talk page
MA
After the beating you took you deserve a cold one--on me! Thanks for being fair and balanced – Lionel (talk) 03:55, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
- Hey, thanks! Glad to help out. :) m.o.p 03:56, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
Deletion of Mau5trap Recordings
--neocharles (talk) 07:33, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Existence does not equal notability - the subject has to be notable to get a Wikipedia page. m.o.p 12:05, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
Questoin re: AIV
- Addendum, actually, I read it very clearly in WP:VANDNOT: "Uploading or using material on Wikipedia in violation of Wikipedia's copyright policies is prohibited, but is not vandalism unless the user does so maliciously or fails to heed warnings." So if a person fails to heed warnings it is vandalism. My mistake here was that I only warned once. --Muhandes (talk) 12:29, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Eh, technically it is vandalism, but the user seems to be trying to improve the Wikipedia - that desire to help is misplaced in this case, as they seem to think that using copyrighted content is actually better. Weird. For most cases, yes, you should report copyvio to AIV - as long as they've been warned sufficiently. m.o.p 12:42, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- OK, he now did it again and the time stamp is after your last warning. Is it vandalism now? --Muhandes (talk) 12:32, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Yeah, if they're outright ignoring warnings. I've blocked for three days. m.o.p 12:40, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
Classmusic
- Oh, I know. But if somebody's lied to my face about using another account - and to other editors working on the article - I'm not about to let them go without a repercussion or two. I'd like Almost-instinct and Voceditnore to look over the article and fix up anything shifty. Also, I'd like Classmusic to respond to my warning, instead of blanking it and ignoring like they have to the above-named editors.
- So, in short, I know that COI doesn't bar editing, but it's enough of a concern that, given the user's recent behaviour, I'll stop them from doing anything until we've figured things out. This isn't too rouge-y, is it? I didn't hear that. Perhaps he is unaware of the sockpuppet investigation findings. Anyhow it seems that DeltaQuad has also blocked the Classmusic account. I left a note on his page about using the unblock template, but re-iterated that he needs to read the COI and Autobiography guidelines and stick to them scrupulously, if he gets unblocked. In the Opera and Classical Music WikiProjects, we get a lot of articles for performers, ensembles, etc. created by their agents and PR people, and often themselves. In my experience, the best I can hope for after one of these tussles is that they'll edit their article according to the guidelines in future. I have yet to find a single one who has ever contributed anything else to Wikipedia. Their only interest in the project is as a PR tool. Having said that, at least it results (after much red-pencilling from other editors) in one new article on a notable subject that we didn't have before and in a small way redresses the pop culture systemic bias here. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 13:40, 5 October 2011 (UTC)]
Danish election
- Never mind, it's been pulled by another admin. All the best, Jenks24 (talk) 11:03, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry about that! I was busy all day and didn't get your message until now. Thanks for letting me know, though! Cheers, m.o.p 19:51, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
3RRHey there! :)
Well WP:CRYSTAL has wined down, however, there's currently a
The Bad Girls Club (season 7). I have notified the two users [32], [33]. The evidence can be found here. They are having an edit-conflict on how the "Duration of cast" should be presented. Since there's no rules regarding anything like that, and it was made up about a year ago, I couldn't warned them to stop their e/c with anything except the 3RR rule. Maybe they need an admin to tell them to stop, so that's why I came to you :) Thanks, Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 01:17, 6 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Temporary page protection requested. Calabe1992 (talk) 01:29, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
- And again ... but maybe the last. You can settle this question once and for all. See the talk page.Griswaldo (talk) 06:09, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'm sure I'm not alone in wanting to hear your replies to the last responses posed to you at that page. IMO, I don't know why you went down the road you did, but as far as I can tell you're blatantly misrepesenting facts about your own actions when people are brining concerns to you. You might think that since you closed the RfC the matter is settled, but it is not. You're actions have not made my life any more pleasant in the last few days vis-a-vis trying to deal with Anupam's disruption and I think you owe us all answers. So please revisit this thread and deal with the open questions. Thanks.Griswaldo (talk) 02:19, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
- I invite you to stop asking the same question again and again. This would be appreciated. Thanks, m.o.p 02:33, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'm sure I'm not alone in wanting to hear your replies to the last responses posed to you at that page. IMO, I don't know why you went down the road you did, but as far as I can tell you're blatantly misrepesenting facts about your own actions when people are brining concerns to you. You might think that since you closed the RfC the matter is settled, but it is not. You're actions have not made my life any more pleasant in the last few days vis-a-vis trying to deal with Anupam's disruption and I think you owe us all answers. So please revisit this thread and deal with the open questions. Thanks.Griswaldo (talk) 02:19, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Block question
- No, I just block obviously bad-faith accounts on sight. Advertising/spam accounts fall under that category. m.o.p 00:37, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Thanks
- Thank you. I've unlocked the article for whatever may come. If I'm needed again, feel free to let me know. Thanks for the kind words again, m.o.p 05:12, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
reminder
- We're still waiting to see if the user understands COI policy (per Ed's question). I'll prod the user and see if they'll answer. talk) 19:20, 30 September 2011 (UTC)]
Nextel logo deleted
- Mmm, good point. What's the link to the logo in question? m.o.p 01:33, 2 October 2011 (UTC)
Support of Sage City SymphonyYou deleted this page before I had a chance to go back in and add the stuff that you wanted to see, including the links within Wikipedia to important composers such as Lou Callabro (who started this orchestra and cites it in his Wikipedia page) and Susan Hurley whose work we premiered (SC is also mentioned in her Wikipedia entry). (Let alone links about the works we have performed.) And we have a web site at www.sagecitysymphony.org, have existed for over 35 yrs and are a significant cultural resource in the Bennington area such that we receive grants from local, statewide and national foundations.
I broke my wrist last weekend and am doing one-handed pecking so it'll take me a few days to get that loaded in. We are going out for a bit now, but I would appreciate your undeleting the page so that I don't have to re-invent the starting part when I go back in tomorrow to add links. Or delete it entirely so that I can start fresh - at this point either would work as long as I can start some serious work on it tomorrow. I am the webmaster by the way, so I do have access to content and more links.
Thank you, Celia Murray — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.228.127.119 (talk) 14:22, 1 October 2011 (UTC)
- It looks like fixed everything up. Best of luck, m.o.p 01:35, 2 October 2011 (UTC)]
Reply on Deterence's talk page
MA
After the beating you took you deserve a cold one--on me! Thanks for being fair and balanced – Lionel (talk) 03:55, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
- Hey, thanks! Glad to help out. :) m.o.p 03:56, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
Deletion of Mau5trap Recordings
--neocharles (talk) 07:33, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Existence does not equal notability - the subject has to be notable to get a Wikipedia page. m.o.p 12:05, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
Questoin re: AIV
- Addendum, actually, I read it very clearly in WP:VANDNOT: "Uploading or using material on Wikipedia in violation of Wikipedia's copyright policies is prohibited, but is not vandalism unless the user does so maliciously or fails to heed warnings." So if a person fails to heed warnings it is vandalism. My mistake here was that I only warned once. --Muhandes (talk) 12:29, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Eh, technically it is vandalism, but the user seems to be trying to improve the Wikipedia - that desire to help is misplaced in this case, as they seem to think that using copyrighted content is actually better. Weird. For most cases, yes, you should report copyvio to AIV - as long as they've been warned sufficiently. m.o.p 12:42, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- OK, he now did it again and the time stamp is after your last warning. Is it vandalism now? --Muhandes (talk) 12:32, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Yeah, if they're outright ignoring warnings. I've blocked for three days. m.o.p 12:40, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
Classmusic
- Oh, I know. But if somebody's lied to my face about using another account - and to other editors working on the article - I'm not about to let them go without a repercussion or two. I'd like Almost-instinct and Voceditnore to look over the article and fix up anything shifty. Also, I'd like Classmusic to respond to my warning, instead of blanking it and ignoring like they have to the above-named editors.
- So, in short, I know that COI doesn't bar editing, but it's enough of a concern that, given the user's recent behaviour, I'll stop them from doing anything until we've figured things out. This isn't too rouge-y, is it? I didn't hear that. Perhaps he is unaware of the sockpuppet investigation findings. Anyhow it seems that DeltaQuad has also blocked the Classmusic account. I left a note on his page about using the unblock template, but re-iterated that he needs to read the COI and Autobiography guidelines and stick to them scrupulously, if he gets unblocked. In the Opera and Classical Music WikiProjects, we get a lot of articles for performers, ensembles, etc. created by their agents and PR people, and often themselves. In my experience, the best I can hope for after one of these tussles is that they'll edit their article according to the guidelines in future. I have yet to find a single one who has ever contributed anything else to Wikipedia. Their only interest in the project is as a PR tool. Having said that, at least it results (after much red-pencilling from other editors) in one new article on a notable subject that we didn't have before and in a small way redresses the pop culture systemic bias here. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 13:40, 5 October 2011 (UTC)]
Danish election
- Never mind, it's been pulled by another admin. All the best, Jenks24 (talk) 11:03, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry about that! I was busy all day and didn't get your message until now. Thanks for letting me know, though! Cheers, m.o.p 19:51, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
3RRHey there! :)
Well WP:CRYSTAL has wined down, however, there's currently a
The Bad Girls Club (season 7). I have notified the two users [32], [33]. The evidence can be found here. They are having an edit-conflict on how the "Duration of cast" should be presented. Since there's no rules regarding anything like that, and it was made up about a year ago, I couldn't warned them to stop their e/c with anything except the 3RR rule. Maybe they need an admin to tell them to stop, so that's why I came to you :) Thanks, Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 01:17, 6 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Temporary page protection requested. Calabe1992 (talk) 01:29, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
Thanks
- Thank you. I've unlocked the article for whatever may come. If I'm needed again, feel free to let me know. Thanks for the kind words again, m.o.p 05:12, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
reminder
- We're still waiting to see if the user understands COI policy (per Ed's question). I'll prod the user and see if they'll answer. talk) 19:20, 30 September 2011 (UTC)]
Nextel logo deleted
- Mmm, good point. What's the link to the logo in question? m.o.p 01:33, 2 October 2011 (UTC)
Support of Sage City SymphonyYou deleted this page before I had a chance to go back in and add the stuff that you wanted to see, including the links within Wikipedia to important composers such as Lou Callabro (who started this orchestra and cites it in his Wikipedia page) and Susan Hurley whose work we premiered (SC is also mentioned in her Wikipedia entry). (Let alone links about the works we have performed.) And we have a web site at www.sagecitysymphony.org, have existed for over 35 yrs and are a significant cultural resource in the Bennington area such that we receive grants from local, statewide and national foundations.
I broke my wrist last weekend and am doing one-handed pecking so it'll take me a few days to get that loaded in. We are going out for a bit now, but I would appreciate your undeleting the page so that I don't have to re-invent the starting part when I go back in tomorrow to add links. Or delete it entirely so that I can start fresh - at this point either would work as long as I can start some serious work on it tomorrow. I am the webmaster by the way, so I do have access to content and more links.
Thank you, Celia Murray — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.228.127.119 (talk) 14:22, 1 October 2011 (UTC)
- It looks like fixed everything up. Best of luck, m.o.p 01:35, 2 October 2011 (UTC)]
Reply on Deterence's talk page
MA
After the beating you took you deserve a cold one--on me! Thanks for being fair and balanced – Lionel (talk) 03:55, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
- Hey, thanks! Glad to help out. :) m.o.p 03:56, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
Deletion of Mau5trap Recordings
--neocharles (talk) 07:33, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Existence does not equal notability - the subject has to be notable to get a Wikipedia page. m.o.p 12:05, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
Questoin re: AIV
- Addendum, actually, I read it very clearly in WP:VANDNOT: "Uploading or using material on Wikipedia in violation of Wikipedia's copyright policies is prohibited, but is not vandalism unless the user does so maliciously or fails to heed warnings." So if a person fails to heed warnings it is vandalism. My mistake here was that I only warned once. --Muhandes (talk) 12:29, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Eh, technically it is vandalism, but the user seems to be trying to improve the Wikipedia - that desire to help is misplaced in this case, as they seem to think that using copyrighted content is actually better. Weird. For most cases, yes, you should report copyvio to AIV - as long as they've been warned sufficiently. m.o.p 12:42, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- OK, he now did it again and the time stamp is after your last warning. Is it vandalism now? --Muhandes (talk) 12:32, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Yeah, if they're outright ignoring warnings. I've blocked for three days. m.o.p 12:40, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
Classmusic
- Oh, I know. But if somebody's lied to my face about using another account - and to other editors working on the article - I'm not about to let them go without a repercussion or two. I'd like Almost-instinct and Voceditnore to look over the article and fix up anything shifty. Also, I'd like Classmusic to respond to my warning, instead of blanking it and ignoring like they have to the above-named editors.
- So, in short, I know that COI doesn't bar editing, but it's enough of a concern that, given the user's recent behaviour, I'll stop them from doing anything until we've figured things out. This isn't too rouge-y, is it? I didn't hear that. Perhaps he is unaware of the sockpuppet investigation findings. Anyhow it seems that DeltaQuad has also blocked the Classmusic account. I left a note on his page about using the unblock template, but re-iterated that he needs to read the COI and Autobiography guidelines and stick to them scrupulously, if he gets unblocked. In the Opera and Classical Music WikiProjects, we get a lot of articles for performers, ensembles, etc. created by their agents and PR people, and often themselves. In my experience, the best I can hope for after one of these tussles is that they'll edit their article according to the guidelines in future. I have yet to find a single one who has ever contributed anything else to Wikipedia. Their only interest in the project is as a PR tool. Having said that, at least it results (after much red-pencilling from other editors) in one new article on a notable subject that we didn't have before and in a small way redresses the pop culture systemic bias here. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 13:40, 5 October 2011 (UTC)]
Danish election
- Never mind, it's been pulled by another admin. All the best, Jenks24 (talk) 11:03, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry about that! I was busy all day and didn't get your message until now. Thanks for letting me know, though! Cheers, m.o.p 19:51, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
3RRHey there! :)
Well WP:CRYSTAL has wined down, however, there's currently a
The Bad Girls Club (season 7). I have notified the two users [32], [33]. The evidence can be found here. They are having an edit-conflict on how the "Duration of cast" should be presented. Since there's no rules regarding anything like that, and it was made up about a year ago, I couldn't warned them to stop their e/c with anything except the 3RR rule. Maybe they need an admin to tell them to stop, so that's why I came to you :) Thanks, Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 01:17, 6 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Temporary page protection requested. Calabe1992 (talk) 01:29, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
reminder
- We're still waiting to see if the user understands COI policy (per Ed's question). I'll prod the user and see if they'll answer. talk) 19:20, 30 September 2011 (UTC)]
Nextel logo deleted
- Mmm, good point. What's the link to the logo in question? m.o.p 01:33, 2 October 2011 (UTC)
Support of Sage City SymphonyYou deleted this page before I had a chance to go back in and add the stuff that you wanted to see, including the links within Wikipedia to important composers such as Lou Callabro (who started this orchestra and cites it in his Wikipedia page) and Susan Hurley whose work we premiered (SC is also mentioned in her Wikipedia entry). (Let alone links about the works we have performed.) And we have a web site at www.sagecitysymphony.org, have existed for over 35 yrs and are a significant cultural resource in the Bennington area such that we receive grants from local, statewide and national foundations.
I broke my wrist last weekend and am doing one-handed pecking so it'll take me a few days to get that loaded in. We are going out for a bit now, but I would appreciate your undeleting the page so that I don't have to re-invent the starting part when I go back in tomorrow to add links. Or delete it entirely so that I can start fresh - at this point either would work as long as I can start some serious work on it tomorrow. I am the webmaster by the way, so I do have access to content and more links.
Thank you, Celia Murray — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.228.127.119 (talk) 14:22, 1 October 2011 (UTC)
- It looks like fixed everything up. Best of luck, m.o.p 01:35, 2 October 2011 (UTC)]
Reply on Deterence's talk page
MA
After the beating you took you deserve a cold one--on me! Thanks for being fair and balanced – Lionel (talk) 03:55, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
- Hey, thanks! Glad to help out. :) m.o.p 03:56, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
Deletion of Mau5trap Recordings
--neocharles (talk) 07:33, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Existence does not equal notability - the subject has to be notable to get a Wikipedia page. m.o.p 12:05, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
Questoin re: AIV
- Addendum, actually, I read it very clearly in WP:VANDNOT: "Uploading or using material on Wikipedia in violation of Wikipedia's copyright policies is prohibited, but is not vandalism unless the user does so maliciously or fails to heed warnings." So if a person fails to heed warnings it is vandalism. My mistake here was that I only warned once. --Muhandes (talk) 12:29, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Eh, technically it is vandalism, but the user seems to be trying to improve the Wikipedia - that desire to help is misplaced in this case, as they seem to think that using copyrighted content is actually better. Weird. For most cases, yes, you should report copyvio to AIV - as long as they've been warned sufficiently. m.o.p 12:42, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- OK, he now did it again and the time stamp is after your last warning. Is it vandalism now? --Muhandes (talk) 12:32, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Yeah, if they're outright ignoring warnings. I've blocked for three days. m.o.p 12:40, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
Classmusic
- Oh, I know. But if somebody's lied to my face about using another account - and to other editors working on the article - I'm not about to let them go without a repercussion or two. I'd like Almost-instinct and Voceditnore to look over the article and fix up anything shifty. Also, I'd like Classmusic to respond to my warning, instead of blanking it and ignoring like they have to the above-named editors.
- So, in short, I know that COI doesn't bar editing, but it's enough of a concern that, given the user's recent behaviour, I'll stop them from doing anything until we've figured things out. This isn't too rouge-y, is it? I didn't hear that. Perhaps he is unaware of the sockpuppet investigation findings. Anyhow it seems that DeltaQuad has also blocked the Classmusic account. I left a note on his page about using the unblock template, but re-iterated that he needs to read the COI and Autobiography guidelines and stick to them scrupulously, if he gets unblocked. In the Opera and Classical Music WikiProjects, we get a lot of articles for performers, ensembles, etc. created by their agents and PR people, and often themselves. In my experience, the best I can hope for after one of these tussles is that they'll edit their article according to the guidelines in future. I have yet to find a single one who has ever contributed anything else to Wikipedia. Their only interest in the project is as a PR tool. Having said that, at least it results (after much red-pencilling from other editors) in one new article on a notable subject that we didn't have before and in a small way redresses the pop culture systemic bias here. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 13:40, 5 October 2011 (UTC)]
Danish election
- Never mind, it's been pulled by another admin. All the best, Jenks24 (talk) 11:03, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry about that! I was busy all day and didn't get your message until now. Thanks for letting me know, though! Cheers, m.o.p 19:51, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
3RRHey there! :)
Well WP:CRYSTAL has wined down, however, there's currently a
The Bad Girls Club (season 7). I have notified the two users [32], [33]. The evidence can be found here. They are having an edit-conflict on how the "Duration of cast" should be presented. Since there's no rules regarding anything like that, and it was made up about a year ago, I couldn't warned them to stop their e/c with anything except the 3RR rule. Maybe they need an admin to tell them to stop, so that's why I came to you :) Thanks, Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 01:17, 6 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Temporary page protection requested. Calabe1992 (talk) 01:29, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
Nextel logo deleted
- Mmm, good point. What's the link to the logo in question? m.o.p 01:33, 2 October 2011 (UTC)
Support of Sage City SymphonyYou deleted this page before I had a chance to go back in and add the stuff that you wanted to see, including the links within Wikipedia to important composers such as Lou Callabro (who started this orchestra and cites it in his Wikipedia page) and Susan Hurley whose work we premiered (SC is also mentioned in her Wikipedia entry). (Let alone links about the works we have performed.) And we have a web site at www.sagecitysymphony.org, have existed for over 35 yrs and are a significant cultural resource in the Bennington area such that we receive grants from local, statewide and national foundations.
I broke my wrist last weekend and am doing one-handed pecking so it'll take me a few days to get that loaded in. We are going out for a bit now, but I would appreciate your undeleting the page so that I don't have to re-invent the starting part when I go back in tomorrow to add links. Or delete it entirely so that I can start fresh - at this point either would work as long as I can start some serious work on it tomorrow. I am the webmaster by the way, so I do have access to content and more links.
Thank you, Celia Murray — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.228.127.119 (talk) 14:22, 1 October 2011 (UTC)
- It looks like fixed everything up. Best of luck, m.o.p 01:35, 2 October 2011 (UTC)]
Reply on Deterence's talk page
MA
After the beating you took you deserve a cold one--on me! Thanks for being fair and balanced – Lionel (talk) 03:55, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
- Hey, thanks! Glad to help out. :) m.o.p 03:56, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
Deletion of Mau5trap Recordings
--neocharles (talk) 07:33, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Existence does not equal notability - the subject has to be notable to get a Wikipedia page. m.o.p 12:05, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
Questoin re: AIV
- Addendum, actually, I read it very clearly in WP:VANDNOT: "Uploading or using material on Wikipedia in violation of Wikipedia's copyright policies is prohibited, but is not vandalism unless the user does so maliciously or fails to heed warnings." So if a person fails to heed warnings it is vandalism. My mistake here was that I only warned once. --Muhandes (talk) 12:29, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Eh, technically it is vandalism, but the user seems to be trying to improve the Wikipedia - that desire to help is misplaced in this case, as they seem to think that using copyrighted content is actually better. Weird. For most cases, yes, you should report copyvio to AIV - as long as they've been warned sufficiently. m.o.p 12:42, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- OK, he now did it again and the time stamp is after your last warning. Is it vandalism now? --Muhandes (talk) 12:32, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Yeah, if they're outright ignoring warnings. I've blocked for three days. m.o.p 12:40, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
Classmusic
- Oh, I know. But if somebody's lied to my face about using another account - and to other editors working on the article - I'm not about to let them go without a repercussion or two. I'd like Almost-instinct and Voceditnore to look over the article and fix up anything shifty. Also, I'd like Classmusic to respond to my warning, instead of blanking it and ignoring like they have to the above-named editors.
- So, in short, I know that COI doesn't bar editing, but it's enough of a concern that, given the user's recent behaviour, I'll stop them from doing anything until we've figured things out. This isn't too rouge-y, is it? I didn't hear that. Perhaps he is unaware of the sockpuppet investigation findings. Anyhow it seems that DeltaQuad has also blocked the Classmusic account. I left a note on his page about using the unblock template, but re-iterated that he needs to read the COI and Autobiography guidelines and stick to them scrupulously, if he gets unblocked. In the Opera and Classical Music WikiProjects, we get a lot of articles for performers, ensembles, etc. created by their agents and PR people, and often themselves. In my experience, the best I can hope for after one of these tussles is that they'll edit their article according to the guidelines in future. I have yet to find a single one who has ever contributed anything else to Wikipedia. Their only interest in the project is as a PR tool. Having said that, at least it results (after much red-pencilling from other editors) in one new article on a notable subject that we didn't have before and in a small way redresses the pop culture systemic bias here. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 13:40, 5 October 2011 (UTC)]
Danish election
- Never mind, it's been pulled by another admin. All the best, Jenks24 (talk) 11:03, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry about that! I was busy all day and didn't get your message until now. Thanks for letting me know, though! Cheers, m.o.p 19:51, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
3RRHey there! :)
Well WP:CRYSTAL has wined down, however, there's currently a
The Bad Girls Club (season 7). I have notified the two users [32], [33]. The evidence can be found here. They are having an edit-conflict on how the "Duration of cast" should be presented. Since there's no rules regarding anything like that, and it was made up about a year ago, I couldn't warned them to stop their e/c with anything except the 3RR rule. Maybe they need an admin to tell them to stop, so that's why I came to you :) Thanks, Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 01:17, 6 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Temporary page protection requested. Calabe1992 (talk) 01:29, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
Support of Sage City SymphonyYou deleted this page before I had a chance to go back in and add the stuff that you wanted to see, including the links within Wikipedia to important composers such as Lou Callabro (who started this orchestra and cites it in his Wikipedia page) and Susan Hurley whose work we premiered (SC is also mentioned in her Wikipedia entry). (Let alone links about the works we have performed.) And we have a web site at www.sagecitysymphony.org, have existed for over 35 yrs and are a significant cultural resource in the Bennington area such that we receive grants from local, statewide and national foundations.
I broke my wrist last weekend and am doing one-handed pecking so it'll take me a few days to get that loaded in. We are going out for a bit now, but I would appreciate your undeleting the page so that I don't have to re-invent the starting part when I go back in tomorrow to add links. Or delete it entirely so that I can start fresh - at this point either would work as long as I can start some serious work on it tomorrow. I am the webmaster by the way, so I do have access to content and more links.
Thank you, Celia Murray — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.228.127.119 (talk) 14:22, 1 October 2011 (UTC)
- It looks like fixed everything up. Best of luck, m.o.p 01:35, 2 October 2011 (UTC)]
Reply on Deterence's talk page
MA
After the beating you took you deserve a cold one--on me! Thanks for being fair and balanced – Lionel (talk) 03:55, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
- Hey, thanks! Glad to help out. :) m.o.p 03:56, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
Deletion of Mau5trap Recordings
--neocharles (talk) 07:33, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Existence does not equal notability - the subject has to be notable to get a Wikipedia page. m.o.p 12:05, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
Questoin re: AIV
- Addendum, actually, I read it very clearly in WP:VANDNOT: "Uploading or using material on Wikipedia in violation of Wikipedia's copyright policies is prohibited, but is not vandalism unless the user does so maliciously or fails to heed warnings." So if a person fails to heed warnings it is vandalism. My mistake here was that I only warned once. --Muhandes (talk) 12:29, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Eh, technically it is vandalism, but the user seems to be trying to improve the Wikipedia - that desire to help is misplaced in this case, as they seem to think that using copyrighted content is actually better. Weird. For most cases, yes, you should report copyvio to AIV - as long as they've been warned sufficiently. m.o.p 12:42, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- OK, he now did it again and the time stamp is after your last warning. Is it vandalism now? --Muhandes (talk) 12:32, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Yeah, if they're outright ignoring warnings. I've blocked for three days. m.o.p 12:40, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
Classmusic
- Oh, I know. But if somebody's lied to my face about using another account - and to other editors working on the article - I'm not about to let them go without a repercussion or two. I'd like Almost-instinct and Voceditnore to look over the article and fix up anything shifty. Also, I'd like Classmusic to respond to my warning, instead of blanking it and ignoring like they have to the above-named editors.
- So, in short, I know that COI doesn't bar editing, but it's enough of a concern that, given the user's recent behaviour, I'll stop them from doing anything until we've figured things out. This isn't too rouge-y, is it? I didn't hear that. Perhaps he is unaware of the sockpuppet investigation findings. Anyhow it seems that DeltaQuad has also blocked the Classmusic account. I left a note on his page about using the unblock template, but re-iterated that he needs to read the COI and Autobiography guidelines and stick to them scrupulously, if he gets unblocked. In the Opera and Classical Music WikiProjects, we get a lot of articles for performers, ensembles, etc. created by their agents and PR people, and often themselves. In my experience, the best I can hope for after one of these tussles is that they'll edit their article according to the guidelines in future. I have yet to find a single one who has ever contributed anything else to Wikipedia. Their only interest in the project is as a PR tool. Having said that, at least it results (after much red-pencilling from other editors) in one new article on a notable subject that we didn't have before and in a small way redresses the pop culture systemic bias here. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 13:40, 5 October 2011 (UTC)]
Danish election
- Never mind, it's been pulled by another admin. All the best, Jenks24 (talk) 11:03, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry about that! I was busy all day and didn't get your message until now. Thanks for letting me know, though! Cheers, m.o.p 19:51, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
3RRHey there! :)
Well WP:CRYSTAL has wined down, however, there's currently a
The Bad Girls Club (season 7). I have notified the two users [32], [33]. The evidence can be found here. They are having an edit-conflict on how the "Duration of cast" should be presented. Since there's no rules regarding anything like that, and it was made up about a year ago, I couldn't warned them to stop their e/c with anything except the 3RR rule. Maybe they need an admin to tell them to stop, so that's why I came to you :) Thanks, Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 01:17, 6 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Temporary page protection requested. Calabe1992 (talk) 01:29, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
MA
![](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/ba/Export_hell_seidel_steiner.png/70px-Export_hell_seidel_steiner.png)
Deletion of Mau5trap Recordings
--neocharles (talk) 07:33, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Existence does not equal notability - the subject has to be notable to get a Wikipedia page. m.o.p 12:05, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
Questoin re: AIV
- Addendum, actually, I read it very clearly in WP:VANDNOT: "Uploading or using material on Wikipedia in violation of Wikipedia's copyright policies is prohibited, but is not vandalism unless the user does so maliciously or fails to heed warnings." So if a person fails to heed warnings it is vandalism. My mistake here was that I only warned once. --Muhandes (talk) 12:29, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Eh, technically it is vandalism, but the user seems to be trying to improve the Wikipedia - that desire to help is misplaced in this case, as they seem to think that using copyrighted content is actually better. Weird. For most cases, yes, you should report copyvio to AIV - as long as they've been warned sufficiently. m.o.p 12:42, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- OK, he now did it again and the time stamp is after your last warning. Is it vandalism now? --Muhandes (talk) 12:32, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Yeah, if they're outright ignoring warnings. I've blocked for three days. m.o.p 12:40, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
Classmusic
- Oh, I know. But if somebody's lied to my face about using another account - and to other editors working on the article - I'm not about to let them go without a repercussion or two. I'd like Almost-instinct and Voceditnore to look over the article and fix up anything shifty. Also, I'd like Classmusic to respond to my warning, instead of blanking it and ignoring like they have to the above-named editors.
- So, in short, I know that COI doesn't bar editing, but it's enough of a concern that, given the user's recent behaviour, I'll stop them from doing anything until we've figured things out. This isn't too rouge-y, is it? I didn't hear that. Perhaps he is unaware of the sockpuppet investigation findings. Anyhow it seems that DeltaQuad has also blocked the Classmusic account. I left a note on his page about using the unblock template, but re-iterated that he needs to read the COI and Autobiography guidelines and stick to them scrupulously, if he gets unblocked. In the Opera and Classical Music WikiProjects, we get a lot of articles for performers, ensembles, etc. created by their agents and PR people, and often themselves. In my experience, the best I can hope for after one of these tussles is that they'll edit their article according to the guidelines in future. I have yet to find a single one who has ever contributed anything else to Wikipedia. Their only interest in the project is as a PR tool. Having said that, at least it results (after much red-pencilling from other editors) in one new article on a notable subject that we didn't have before and in a small way redresses the pop culture systemic bias here. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 13:40, 5 October 2011 (UTC)]
Danish election
- Never mind, it's been pulled by another admin. All the best, Jenks24 (talk) 11:03, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry about that! I was busy all day and didn't get your message until now. Thanks for letting me know, though! Cheers, m.o.p 19:51, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
3RRHey there! :)
Well WP:CRYSTAL has wined down, however, there's currently a
The Bad Girls Club (season 7). I have notified the two users [32], [33]. The evidence can be found here. They are having an edit-conflict on how the "Duration of cast" should be presented. Since there's no rules regarding anything like that, and it was made up about a year ago, I couldn't warned them to stop their e/c with anything except the 3RR rule. Maybe they need an admin to tell them to stop, so that's why I came to you :) Thanks, Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 01:17, 6 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Temporary page protection requested. Calabe1992 (talk) 01:29, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
Questoin re: AIV
- Addendum, actually, I read it very clearly in WP:VANDNOT: "Uploading or using material on Wikipedia in violation of Wikipedia's copyright policies is prohibited, but is not vandalism unless the user does so maliciously or fails to heed warnings." So if a person fails to heed warnings it is vandalism. My mistake here was that I only warned once. --Muhandes (talk) 12:29, 4 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Eh, technically it is vandalism, but the user seems to be trying to improve the Wikipedia - that desire to help is misplaced in this case, as they seem to think that using copyrighted content is actually better. Weird. For most cases, yes, you should report copyvio to AIV - as long as they've been warned sufficiently. m.o.p 12:42, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- OK, he now did it again and the time stamp is after your last warning. Is it vandalism now? --Muhandes (talk) 12:32, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Yeah, if they're outright ignoring warnings. I've blocked for three days. m.o.p 12:40, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
Classmusic
- Oh, I know. But if somebody's lied to my face about using another account - and to other editors working on the article - I'm not about to let them go without a repercussion or two. I'd like Almost-instinct and Voceditnore to look over the article and fix up anything shifty. Also, I'd like Classmusic to respond to my warning, instead of blanking it and ignoring like they have to the above-named editors.
- So, in short, I know that COI doesn't bar editing, but it's enough of a concern that, given the user's recent behaviour, I'll stop them from doing anything until we've figured things out. This isn't too rouge-y, is it? I didn't hear that. Perhaps he is unaware of the sockpuppet investigation findings. Anyhow it seems that DeltaQuad has also blocked the Classmusic account. I left a note on his page about using the unblock template, but re-iterated that he needs to read the COI and Autobiography guidelines and stick to them scrupulously, if he gets unblocked. In the Opera and Classical Music WikiProjects, we get a lot of articles for performers, ensembles, etc. created by their agents and PR people, and often themselves. In my experience, the best I can hope for after one of these tussles is that they'll edit their article according to the guidelines in future. I have yet to find a single one who has ever contributed anything else to Wikipedia. Their only interest in the project is as a PR tool. Having said that, at least it results (after much red-pencilling from other editors) in one new article on a notable subject that we didn't have before and in a small way redresses the pop culture systemic bias here. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 13:40, 5 October 2011 (UTC)]
Danish election
- Never mind, it's been pulled by another admin. All the best, Jenks24 (talk) 11:03, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry about that! I was busy all day and didn't get your message until now. Thanks for letting me know, though! Cheers, m.o.p 19:51, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
3RRHey there! :)
Well WP:CRYSTAL has wined down, however, there's currently a
The Bad Girls Club (season 7). I have notified the two users [32], [33]. The evidence can be found here. They are having an edit-conflict on how the "Duration of cast" should be presented. Since there's no rules regarding anything like that, and it was made up about a year ago, I couldn't warned them to stop their e/c with anything except the 3RR rule. Maybe they need an admin to tell them to stop, so that's why I came to you :) Thanks, Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 01:17, 6 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Temporary page protection requested. Calabe1992 (talk) 01:29, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
- OK, he now did it again and the time stamp is after your last warning. Is it vandalism now? --Muhandes (talk) 12:32, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Yeah, if they're outright ignoring warnings. I've blocked for three days. m.o.p 12:40, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- OK, he now did it again and the time stamp is after your last warning. Is it vandalism now? --Muhandes (talk) 12:32, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
Classmusic
- Oh, I know. But if somebody's lied to my face about using another account - and to other editors working on the article - I'm not about to let them go without a repercussion or two. I'd like Almost-instinct and Voceditnore to look over the article and fix up anything shifty. Also, I'd like Classmusic to respond to my warning, instead of blanking it and ignoring like they have to the above-named editors.
- So, in short, I know that COI doesn't bar editing, but it's enough of a concern that, given the user's recent behaviour, I'll stop them from doing anything until we've figured things out. This isn't too rouge-y, is it? I didn't hear that. Perhaps he is unaware of the sockpuppet investigation findings. Anyhow it seems that DeltaQuad has also blocked the Classmusic account. I left a note on his page about using the unblock template, but re-iterated that he needs to read the COI and Autobiography guidelines and stick to them scrupulously, if he gets unblocked. In the Opera and Classical Music WikiProjects, we get a lot of articles for performers, ensembles, etc. created by their agents and PR people, and often themselves. In my experience, the best I can hope for after one of these tussles is that they'll edit their article according to the guidelines in future. I have yet to find a single one who has ever contributed anything else to Wikipedia. Their only interest in the project is as a PR tool. Having said that, at least it results (after much red-pencilling from other editors) in one new article on a notable subject that we didn't have before and in a small way redresses the pop culture systemic bias here. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 13:40, 5 October 2011 (UTC)]
Danish election
- Never mind, it's been pulled by another admin. All the best, Jenks24 (talk) 11:03, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry about that! I was busy all day and didn't get your message until now. Thanks for letting me know, though! Cheers, m.o.p 19:51, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
3RRHey there! :)
Well WP:CRYSTAL has wined down, however, there's currently a
The Bad Girls Club (season 7). I have notified the two users [32], [33]. The evidence can be found here. They are having an edit-conflict on how the "Duration of cast" should be presented. Since there's no rules regarding anything like that, and it was made up about a year ago, I couldn't warned them to stop their e/c with anything except the 3RR rule. Maybe they need an admin to tell them to stop, so that's why I came to you :) Thanks, Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 01:17, 6 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Temporary page protection requested. Calabe1992 (talk) 01:29, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
Danish election
- Never mind, it's been pulled by another admin. All the best, Jenks24 (talk) 11:03, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry about that! I was busy all day and didn't get your message until now. Thanks for letting me know, though! Cheers, m.o.p 19:51, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
3RRHey there! :)
Well WP:CRYSTAL has wined down, however, there's currently a
The Bad Girls Club (season 7). I have notified the two users [32], [33]. The evidence can be found here. They are having an edit-conflict on how the "Duration of cast" should be presented. Since there's no rules regarding anything like that, and it was made up about a year ago, I couldn't warned them to stop their e/c with anything except the 3RR rule. Maybe they need an admin to tell them to stop, so that's why I came to you :) Thanks, Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 01:17, 6 October 2011 (UTC)]
- Temporary page protection requested. Calabe1992 (talk) 01:29, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry about that! I was busy all day and didn't get your message until now. Thanks for letting me know, though! Cheers, m.o.p 19:51, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
3RRHey there! :)
Well WP:CRYSTAL has wined down, however, there's currently a
- Temporary page protection requested. Calabe1992 (talk) 01:29, 6 October 2011 (UTC)