Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Bose Headphone Family

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus on all. Some points: (1) it seems to be in agreement that the topic is notable. (2) No one has argued that the topic is INHERENTLY advertising, just that it is written in an advertising style. Similarly, there is not a consensus that there isn't enough verifiable information to have an article on this topic. Those issues can and should be addressed by editing. Mangojuicetalk 04:12, 13 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Bose Headphone Family

In what way is this not an advert? I think we can leave it to Bose to do their product marketing. There may be a kernel of encyclopaedic information in here but I'm darned if I can find it. Just zis Guy you know? 12:11, 3 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

This article (and the others) pass

WP:CORP
so the deletion nomination sould be removed.

I think that these links drawn from inside this own nomination should be enough to end the discussion. I dont care to look for links to prove it any more. others can do that if they so wish.--64.240.163.221 22:01, 10 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

  • Umh wow! Thanks for all that. I should have done this much earlier since I think this proves the point much better then I have been able to so far! Thank-you so much :) Oh and nice touch with the seperators it makes it really stand out! -- UKPhoenix79 05:02, 11 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I think we're too far apart. Anyone who could think it was appropriate to use a photograph like Bose_QC2_person.jpg‎ rather than a picture just showing the headphones has a wildly different concept of what's encyclopedic than I do.
The things I think should be in the article would be hard to research and would involve quite a lot of hard work, and it's not my field of interest. A good article would answer questions like this: When did Bose first introduced noise-cancelling aviation headphones? Noise-cancelling consumer headphones? Were either of these the first on the market? If not, whose were and what factors account for Bose's success in outstripping them? The basic idea of active noise cancellation dates back to the 1930s, so why is it difficult to do? Obviously there much more to it than "send[ing] out the noise it receives phase-shifted 180 degrees." What were Bose's key technical innovations, as documented in patents and, probably, in the trade press, and, Bose being an academic, quite possibly in scientific journal articles? What's the difference between the technology in the aviation headphones and the consumer version? What can be said about Bose's business and marketing strategies? Does Bose sell exclusively by mail and in its own retail stores? Why? To what people is Bose trying to sell these headphones? How many have been sold? How do sales of Bose noise-cancelling headphones compare with those of other headphones in the same price range?
And, of course, the pictures should be pictures of the headphone (the steak); not the sizzle, i.e. pictures of people registering hair-raising ecstasy or smug satisfaction... people who incidentally happen to have something unidentifiable on their ears. It would be nice to have a picture of one opened up and showing the electronic components inside. Dpbsmith (talk) 13:42, 5 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Actually I checked out the photo your mentioning to see why it was there and it the guy was a smug man in suit and while I agee that he is in a sute he dosent look smug but actually the photo is of a man in an airplain looking in the direction of the windows and that is all. I think that it is actually in a quite apropriate location also since it is in the area that talks about the history of Bose and noise cancelling headphones and where it talks about the technology behind them. The photo does in no way look like an ad and I think is much better then taking a photo of myself on an airplain.
Some of your questions are already answered inside of the article. Including
Some of your other questions are actually pretty good!
  • The basic idea of active noise cancellation dates back to the 1930s, so why is it difficult to do? I dont know. Thats a good question. I would have to guess it would have to do with technology.
  • Obviously there much more to it than "send[ing] out the noise it receives phase-shifted 180 degrees." What were Bose's key technical innovations, as documented in patents and, probably, in the trade press, and, Bose being an academic, quite possibly in scientific journal articles? Since bose is a privately owned company I don't know what information is out there. The suggestions on pattents might be ones best bet.
  • Does Bose sell exclusively by mail and in its own retail stores? Not answered in the article but for a long time you could only get the QuietComforts from Bose directly via the web, phone, mail order or a Bose Store. But recently it looks like you can get them also from Apple stores. The Aviations and the Triports can be purchased from Bose directly or from bose dealers.
  • What can be said about Bose's business and marketing strategies? Dont really know.
  • How many have been sold? Since bose is a privatly owned comany I highly doubt that they give out that information. But I'd like to know that one also.
  • How do sales of Bose noise-cancelling headphones compare with those of other headphones in the same price range? see previous answer.
I do like your suggestion of having one that shows the innerds of the headphones. I think there is one on the Bose Site but I dont know if its a jpeg or a Quicktime or a Shockwave image. -- UKPhoenix79 23:41, 7 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]


Additional articles

Addendum to vote above. Not main topic. Please put main vote

here

  1. fgs 14:40, 3 August 2006 (UTC)[reply
    ]
  2. As is
    Bose Computer Speaker Systems. Uncle G 15:25, 3 August 2006 (UTC)[reply
    ]
  3. And Bose Lifestyle Home Entertainment Family. My delete vote goes for them all. -- Slowmover 15:42, 3 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  4. Add
    Bose SoundDock Digital Music System. Holy spamcruft, Batman! Just zis Guy you know? 15:44, 3 August 2006 (UTC)[reply
    ]
  • Agree. -- Slowmover 14:51, 3 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Yep. - Merope 14:53, 3 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete all as mirroring advertising. Dpbsmith (talk) 15:37, 3 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment Most of those articles are taling about old products not being sold by Bose any more. Others are stubbs that have to be built upon. How is that Advertising? -- UKPhoenix79 07:05, 4 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep all — Vesther (U * T/R * CTD) 21:48, 3 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete all. I think this article was done mainly in good faith by a fan (Vesther), not by Bose marketing, but most or all of the article seems like copyvio of material from the Bose website. And the content is NPOV and unencyclopedic (reads like ad spam) Bwithh 03:25, 4 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment Thanks for seeing that this is not an ad :) But this is not a copyvo and we have done a lot to make the article as
      NPOV as possable to make sure that its af fair as it can be! Please help us fix it not destroy a lot of very hard work researching and incoperating material! -- UKPhoenix79 07:05, 4 August 2006 (UTC)[reply
      ]
  • Strong Keep All - If they need improving improve them! Many Articles are actually informative and are NOT ADS! A couple like the Lifestyle article are essentially stubbs with only a basic amount of information listed. They need to be helped out since A LOT of work has been done on some like the Previous Bose Headphones which only recently became seperate because of the size of the original Article! And btw how is it an ad if the page is talking about products that Bose no longer sells? -- UKPhoenix79 05:07, 4 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment The other articles such as the
      Voyager for its no stop flight around the world in 1986. I saw an interview with them where they were talking about the prototype aviation headphones. The QuietComforts are what EVERY other noise cancelling headphones are compared too. And the SoundDock has multiple places out there that have independent reviews on it listing the specs and information about them. The computer speakers I'm not sure upon but I'm sure that places like C|Net have reviews & the lifestyle systems I havent had much time to look up but right now as it stands its basically a stubb with the prices and minor details. I'm sure that if we remove the proces even if its the MSRP from when they 1st came out they should be fine if more detail could be included from other sources. There are also many independent sources around reviewing all of these products [22] [23] [24] [25] [26] especially the SoundDock such as [27] [28] [29] [30] and many more -- UKPhoenix79 21:55, 4 August 2006 (UTC)[reply
      ]

Associated redirect pages

Addendum to vote above. Not main topic. Please put main vote

here

  1. Bose Headphone
  2. Bose Headphones
  3. Bose headphone
  4. Bose headphones
  5. Bose Lifestyle Home Entertainment Systems
  6. Bose Tri-Port Headphones

-- Slowmover 15:48, 3 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

WP:CORP review

WP:CORP
, which establishes some rough guidelines on product articles. For convenience, I cite the entire relevant text here:

A product or service is notable if it meets any one of the following criteria:

  1. The product or service has been the subject of multiple non-trivial published works whose source is independent of the company itself.
    • This criterion excludes:
      • Media re-prints of press releases, other publications where the company or corporation talks about its products or services, and advertising for the product or service. Newspaper stories that do not credit a reporter or a news service and simply present company news in an uncritical or positive way may be treated as press releases unless there is evidence to the contrary. 1
      • Trivial coverage, such as simple price listings in product catalogues.
    • This criterion includes published works in all forms, such as newspaper articles, books, television documentaries, and published reports by consumer watchdog organizations. 7
  2. The product or service is so well-known that its trademark has suffered from
    genericization
    .
— — — — — — — — — — — —
  • ^Note 1 : Self-promotion and product placement are not the routes to having an encyclopaedia article. The published works must be someone else writing about the company, corporation, product, or service. (See Wikipedia:Autobiography for the verifiability and neutrality problems that affect material where the subject of the article itself is the source of the material.) The barometer of notability is whether people independent of the subject itself (or of its manufacturer, creator, or vendor) have actually considered the company, corporation, product or service notable enough that they have written and published non-trivial works that focus upon it.
  • Haynes Manuals
    written about them satisfy this criterion.

In light of this, I re-read the current article. I found it to have three basic pieces:

  1. Brochure-like detailed product information: 8 sections, approx. 1st 75% of article
    • includes segment on "very close relationship" with American Airlines
  2. Criticisms section: 1 section, approx. 12% of article; no specific source cited
  3. Ongoing improvement: 2 paragraphs that appear to be a Bose marketing response to criticism; no specific source cited

The only thing that doesn't sound like it comes straight from Bose or sources with strong Bose ties is the unsourced criticism section, which doesn't by itself support an article.

Identifying sources for the claims is problematic, as virtually none of the statements are specifically sourced. (This is understandable for most of the material if it is taken directly from brochures, but that doesn't support the notability case.) The "References" section lists the following sources:

  • 5 direct Bose sources
  • a Best Buy product page (which is very likely data copied from a Bose source)
  • a program description from American Airlines, which has a "very close relationship" with Bose
  • a biz.yahoo page that starts with the heading "Press Release / Source: Bose Corporation"

Based on WP:CORP guidelines, not one of these sources provides reliable notability evidence.

I still think the editors were making a conscientious effort to build a solid article, but its foundation is completely undermined by the lack of any independent sources, and given their efforts and the current result, I doubt enough independent material can be found to make this a proper article. I stand by my "delete" vote above. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 15:33, 4 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

ADDENDUM: My review was of the current article, but I did not factor in citations that UKPhoenix79 has made in the discussion above, which are attempts to show independent sources of information on this article's subject that are not yet included in the article or factored into its text (understandable, given the pace of an AfD). Here is what I currently note from above:

  • "Bose QuietComfort 2 Acoustic Noise Cancelling headphones" review, author not specified, CNet.com.au. This review is so favorable I have to wonder if this is one of those infamous "puff pieces" written by a company and distributed anonymously as a review. The only truly critical item is about its battery, where it compares the speakers to a competitor (usually a marketing no-no, suggesting independence).
  • "Bose QuietComfort 3" review, Mike Kobrin, PC Magazine. This sounds like an independent review.
  • "Bose QuietComfort 2 Consumer Headphones" product page, PC Magazine. Points to Bose QuietComfort 3" review, Bill Machrone, PC Magazine. Another likely independent review.
  • "Bose TriPort Headphones - Glacier Blue" product page, which leads to a review with the same title, by David Carnoy and John P. Falcone. The review ends with the statement "Freelancer Steve Guttenberg contributed to this review." Fairly brief for something 3 people worked on. I'm especially concerned about the "freelancer", which is a term often used for marketing reps who contribute corporate promotional material to news agencies. Of course, it could just be a junior PCM researcher or intern.
  • "Professional Pilot Magazine (2004 Headset Preference Survey, Dec p 80) where the Aviation Headset X was voted #1 by a consumer survey 4 years in a Row from 2000 to 2004". This would seem promising if we could examine the claim (surveys are notoriously subjective and open to abuse). A Google search on '"Professional Pilot Magazine" "aviation headset"' turns up not the PPM survey but a bunch of links that cite it, starting with Bose itself. That and the lack of a link to the specific PPM mention troubles me.
  • Dpbsmith's various book citations of Bose products. These support the general notability of Bose (not contested here) but not specific products. (In fact, the Mortal Prey quote, "next to an elderly woman who plugged her sound-killing Bose headphones into a Sony discman", makes me wonder if we're looking at literary product placement.)

The biggest problem with the reviews (for the sake of this article and its associated articles) is that they don't suggest the products rise above the millions of new products from thousands of companies. I don't think that every product reviewed in every trade magazine warrants an article. In my opinion, specific products should have a substantial impact on the culture before they warrant articles, and even then, the focus should be on the impact, not the detailed product specs.

Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information; in this case, it isn't a place to collect product specs. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 16:34, 4 August 2006 (UTC)[reply
]

So in your judgment there is some worth to the articles if we find other sources and its not just about the headphones but how they changed the industry? It will take a bit. Thanks for doing this. I have found some places like here Where it directly talks about other headphones by initially comparing them to the Bose QC2 and even gives the user the option to compare with graphs. If you look a search of the Google Books Using the key word QuietComfort you also get books containg that phrase. I think that the reason that the C|Net review didn't list the author is bacuse it was the Australian site. Here are some more products from the official American C|Net site [39] [40]. Also there are reviews on the Aviations such as [41] or [42]. I hope that this helps. -- UKPhoenix79 01:33, 5 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Bose already has an article. This is an excessively detailed treatment of some niche-market products. Wikinfo aims to provide the best information about subjects, maybe they would welcome this, but in a general enclcyopaedia the level of detail is excessive. An article on the development of noise-cancelling headphones which includes the Bose, Sennheiser and other products might be OK, but this gives a largely uncritical restatement of Bose's own spin on things. Just zis Guy you know? 08:37, 5 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

MSRP: $

To aggressively list prices??

The thing actually reads along the television-commercials.

It is not even written vaguely for this website.

I, generally, oppose deleting articles; but, massive editing is necessary.

I had written something on

handicappism
; that did not even last three days. So, Bose?? Completely reformat.


< http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Hopiakuta_¡¿_doppelgänger >.

Thank You,

Hopiakuta 18:17, 4 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

People do seem to want to literally alter other person[s]'

arguements
; defeating them is simpler: thereby victory for the secondary editor.

I had entitled my comment specifically w/ "MSRP: $ ", in order to stress the absurdity of listing the otherwise already borderline absurd concept of "

manufacturers' suggested retail price
[s]" on this website. I do, factually, know what I'd copied.

Should the tissue pages list prices f/ facial tissue, toilet paper??

If they do, I would want it edited-out.

If I've made errors here, write a comment; but, not mine. Please.

Thank You.

Hopiakuta 20:03, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]


One annoying version of a

cnn
.

Seems like the same monologue, again.

Hopiakuta 20:19, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

euwwww.

Hopiakuta 20:19, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]


    • As that edit doesn't alter much of the text,... Thank You,... As compromise. No stolen text: no problem.

,... &, we now return to our regularly scheduled television-commercial-article[s],... I would be less likely to worry about this article if ^^ that text ^^ would admit to being from the commercials. Quotation!! And historical prices would not matter much, if quoting from cancelled advertizing-campaigns. As quotation. Old campaigns. If someone says "Cocacola; $00.05", we, generally, interpret that as either history, when "Coke" had been "coke--ain" {{in addition to the "sugar-fix"}}, or someone is doing a "price-war".

In either case, "

manufacturers' suggested retail price
" seems unjustified, unjust.

Hopiakuta 23:20, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

  • Hopiakuta, if I understand what you're trying to say here, you are actually advocating for the deletion of the article
    Manufacturers' suggested retail price. Please note that that is not the subject of this "articles for deletion" (AfD) entry. If you wish to nominate an article for deletion, you should follow the process outlined at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion. Let me know if you would like assistance on this. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 23:43, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply
    ]

Exactly "not". Sorry. Every message that I put here quotes from this Bose wikiadvertizement: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

MSRP: $

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I, also, pointed-out my hearing Bose on Cnn: same monologue as this advertizement. I suppose that I'm the only one here to hear these commercials. If you took the various Bose scripts from television, overlayed them on top of this article: they would match. That's part of why I employed the similes of other ads. The prices are the other reason.

I'm increasingly wondering who these authors are. Why are they insisting on putting the television-script here? Why are the prices relevant? If they are historical prices from cancelled advertizing, then the historical relevance should be emphasized.

Otherwise they should be deleted. My opinion.

So, who are they? Are they of Bose advertizing? Next-door-neighbors to an executive? Cousins to an engineer?

Wiki should not be a television-commercial-reproduction, unless as historical-retrospective. I'm running-out of ways to say that. If I'm the only one who perceives the need for major reformat in that light, well okay. But, that is neither "delete" nor "keep". Humans are so often about "all or nothing". Well, sometimes it's appropriate; but, too much causes war, prison, other anachronism,...

as well as offensive Bose articles. That's, also, why my article was deleted. Because no one was willing to admit that any of it was worth the effort, not even the intent or perspective.

I suppose that I am incapable of perceiving like anyone else. Well, I'm stuck w/ this brain: no trades.

So, it's all about the Bose advertizing as article.

Hopiakuta 05:08, 7 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment Well I'm one of the main editors and I KNOW that I'm not being paid for this and I really doubt that Bose even knows of this article. Quite frankly if they did know about it and really cared about saving it don't you think that this article would have had many people loggin on defending the page saying that it should stay the same and out vote everyone here? Well as you can see that did not happen since it is really only myself and
    NPOV mind set when reviewing other peoples work. I'm sorry that the articles you created were deleted but I would think that you of all people would have wanted tose who voted against you to have looked at your articles in a NPOV way. So please do the same when you look at others work :) I hope that I answered your questions and any others that people might have thought of :) p.s. I was the one who reformatted your original comment and put it in the vote section. I'm sorry if that upset you since that truly was not my intent. -- UKPhoenix79 00:29, 8 August 2006 (UTC)[reply
    ]
  • Response to UKPhoenix79: Please don't confuse objection to an article with dislike of the subject. I happen to be a fan of Bose — I'm very pleased with some 20-year Bose speakers I have that have outlasted three stereo systems — but liking a product has absolutely nothing to do with whether a particular article on that product is appropriate for Wikipedia.
    It would be ideal for editors like myself, who believe in the potential for an objective, properly sourced article, to do the work to create it, but it's much more time-consuming to do this work than it is to collect brochure details and weblinks. For instance, when I fact-check a single statement from a source, I examine its supposed print and web references, note who wrote them, search for potential biases of the authors, examine the notability of the sources, and try to pursue related information to ensure that information is solidly backed up by folks without an agenda. I have neither the time nor the interest in doing so. My only interest, which I committed to by voting here, is to keep an eye on the article to see if it mutates into something useful to Wikipedia. (I see some tweaks have been made, but the major problems remain.) It is incumbent upon the editors interested in the subject to make this happen, because no one else will. This does not mean that outside editors can't judge the merits of articles on basic Wikipedia requirements, which apply no matter what the subject.
    In the specific case of audio reviews, my experience has been that professionals almost universally refuse to do independently monitored double-blind tests, which are the only way to separate true differences in audio experiences from the cachet of brand-name competitions and reviewers' personal biases. (The few I've heard of who've participated in these tend to be surprised at how thoroughly their own perceptions fool them when they know what they're listening to in advance.) For this and other reasons, I don't believe one can write an objective encyclopedia article on such products, except when discussing sourcable history and independently reported popularity, which are not the current focus of these articles. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 01:58, 8 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment I'm glad that your not like some who have turned a personal bias against a company to dictate their voting decision. After all I think that this vote has become mute after all the independent reviews found and everything else that justifies its inclusion in wikipedia. I have been holding off on doing any editing until the AfD has closed and we can get back to the article and make it better. Some people have actually for once given good suggestions on how to improve this and even given some suggestions. I only hope that we can keep some people interusted in the article afterwards so that we can all work together to make it better. -- UKPhoenix79 03:03, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • Have to agree. There is a dearth of truly objective information about audio products (which is why this is fan material and not encyclopedic material). -- Slowmover 14:18, 8 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
      • Comment This article is designed to be informative just like any good article should be. We simply got facts and put it in one place. It is not fan material since we also tried to have a detailed critisms section that has now been shortened (dont quite know why) and a section following each headphone only listing the known specs of the headphones. I have provided TONS of links to MANY articles out there that do exactly the same and even go farther then that. Just look at the links, its kind of getting repetative now :( -- UKPhoenix79 03:03, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete all - there is an encyclopaedic article on Bose headphones but this is not it. I also wonder where all this text came from? Way tto long and detailed. Delete all then produce a new article with the encyclopaedic facts. BlueValour 04:49, 8 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment Why not help to make the current article better? There is a lot of good information here and now that we have some people giving suggestions on how to improve it we can now make this article great :) Now that we know that although you can get information from the manufacture but there needs to be multiple sources we can make it better. -- UKPhoenix79 03:03, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Copyright violation - I voted fairly early in this debate, then changed my vote, and then since the discussion continues, I took a further look. There's been a lot of claims by the editors of this article that they have written this themselves and it is not Bose advertising. So I was very disappointed to find that this is not the truth. I'm not going to say that they have deliberately lied to us, but I can say I'm very disappointed. I took a random section (turned out to be from the Combat Crewman section) and copied a chunck of the text into Google, and lo, it turns out to be a complete cut-and-paste from this Bose advertising website [43] So, UKPhoenix79, you've got some answering to do. You've been less than honest with us. I have seen some cleanup of the article, but the bottom line is this IS advertising, directly from the Bose site, and therefore constitutes copyright violation. Anyreason why it shouldn't be tagged as such? Akradecki 16:30, 8 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment That was a good catch and your right that should be edited, are there any other copy vios that you have found? But I'd like to ask that you Assume good faith since I have actually been very honest about everything I have said and I have not ever intentially lied to anyone here. I just seam to be the only person that edits this article that is willing to go through all this to prove the articles viability. To put things in perspective this particular headpnone your talking about is only avalable to the military and as the article says it's not available to the consumer market. So if this section was advertising its a very inafectual one at that. I have time and time again even before this AfD came up asked those that critisised the article to point out where and help us make it better only a couple actually replied, and we worked with them to do just that. I have never said that this page was perfact and it didn't need work I have instead only asked people to help us make it truly Great and I can only hope that you can help us do just that. I'm sorry that there was a copy vio and I can only hope that you'd believe me that it was never my intention to mislead anyone in any way. -- UKPhoenix79 03:03, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • Of course, it not like Bose is likely to complain about a copyvio that helps them market their products.... :-)) -- Slowmover 16:53, 8 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete as without independent sourcing. Looks like an ad, reads like an ad, (doesn't) inform like an ad... Must be a duck. 64.26.68.82 17:54, 8 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment Don't understand what you mean by a duck but like said before the main source of information was from the Bose site directly. Occasionaly we would have someone say that this looked like an ad only for myself to ask where and to never recieve a reply to my question. Now we have some pointers on how to improve and (if you look thorought this AfD) you'll see that there are tons of independent sources all over the place so the page will be able to cite more and more information from places other than Bose directly. -- UKPhoenix79 03:03, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
      • "Duck" is a reference to the old saying, which the anon editor was paralleling: "If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it must be a duck." ~ Jeff Q (talk) 05:35, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
      • Comment I don't think the pointers on how to improve the articles warrant keeping any of them. At most, we're talking about a couple of new paragraphs for the main Bose article. Also, UKPhoenix79, I would really appreciate it if you would refrain from responding to every single comment on this discussion. It's become practically unreadable. You have made your position clear. —
        fgs 06:03, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply
        ]
  • Delete and userfy if someone requests it. Blatant
    brochurespeak. ~ trialsanderrors 19:16, 10 August 2006 (UTC)[reply
    ]

As I think that this page needs more "[edit] - boxes",...

I have not read all of those responses,... I'm sorry, I have many limitations,... If I've ever written "delete this thing", well, I don't recall it. You've written about voting on my page: I never got to vote on it, myself. It's totally a "kangaroo-deletion". The page had, actually been designed for debate. Instead of de - de - debate, it got de - de - delete.

I do know that the various bose variations have been on Cnn & wherever.

Someone wants me to upload a commercial mosaic?

Well, I do suppose that I'd need to figure a wiki-photographic-upload first.

I do have many limitations.

Most newspaper - editors would recommend:

Wherever you copy substantial selections, employ "quotation-mark[s]", &/or similar devices, w/ attribution.

&, where newspapers include prices, that's, virtually always, advertizement.

As incompetent as I am, those facts I am certain of.

Please?


Hopiakuta 23:20, 10 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I've another guess,...

Is any of you named "Coulter"?

Hopiakuta 23:27, 10 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Huh. Hummmm.

New concepts, to me.

< http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/wikipedia:userfy >;

< http://google.com/search?q=%22brochurespeak%22+%22%22+%22%22+%22%22 >;

< http://google.com/search?q=%22userfy%22+%22userfication%22+%22%22+%22%22 >.

Hopiakuta 23:54, 10 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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