Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ethiopian civil conflict (2018–present)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
talk page or in a deletion review
). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Most of the discussion here has been about the content, formatting and naming of this article, not arguments over whether or not it should exist. So, I'm closing this as Keep and encouraging interested editors to discuss points of disagreement on the article talk page or other dispute resolution forums. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 05:18, 27 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Ethiopian civil conflict (2018–present)

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This is a article of unrelated conflicts in Ethiopia from 2018 to now presented as a single conflict. It even mentions the

talk) 01:05, 20 March 2023 (UTC)[reply

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Automated comment: This AfD was not correctly
Talk to my owner:Online 01:30, 20 March 2023 (UTC)[reply
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Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Events, Military, and Ethiopia. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 10:06, 20 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. If the issue is lack of reliable sources for the al-Shabaab invasion, then adding a Tag is more appropriate than nominating it for deletion. Ethnic violence in Ethiopia since the 2018 regime change is a very series and an ongoing issue. The article covered most of the conflicts happening in various regions. From the dynamic nature of the issue, sections may need updating but as far as one can see, the Outline itself adequately shows the various ethnic conflicts discussed. Could you please state which ethnic conflict is not covered? Petra0922 (talk) 20:10, 21 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Ethnic violence in Ethiopia has been ongoing for a very long time, way before 2018 (many of the wars listed predate 2018), and it will undoubtedly continue into the future. The problem is the article is attempting to group up these many different ethnic insurgencies into one single war, despite no adequate sources. What is the connection between the
talk) 20:45, 21 March 2023 (UTC)[reply
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These are not all a single organised conflict, but they cannot be completely separated from the wider Ethiopian sociopolitical context, nor completely from each other. To take the current state of those three articles:
Afar–Somali clashes: In 2014, the federal government, headed by the Ethiopian People's Revolutionary Democratic Front (EPRDF), redrew the boundary between the two regions. As a result ... – this is a consequence of EPRDF/TPLF ethnic federalism;

2020–2022 Ethiopian–Sudanese clashes: With the outbreak of the Tigray War, Sudanese forces were able to move into the region due to an agreement with Ethiopia just three days before. When Amhara militants left to assist the federal government in the war, Sudanese forces started to ... – related to the Tigray War
;

Oromo conflict – see TDF–OLA joint offensive: The TDF–OLA joint offensive was a series of military battles starting in late October 2021 opposing a coalition of the Tigray Defense Forces (TDF) and Oromo Liberation Army (OLA) against the Ethiopian National Defense Forces (ENDF) ... The TDF and OLA confirmed a military alliance against the federal forces. The military actions of the TDF-OLA coalition were seen by the federal authorities as a threat to Addis Ababa, the capital of Ethiopia. – related to the Tigray War;

Boud (talk) 23:42, 21 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It seems the examples Boud provided elaborated this point. Petra0922 (talk) 10:43, 23 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. The scope of this article is to give an overview of the various armed conflicts in Ethiopia from 2018 to the present.
sources that place the various armed conflicts in their constitutional/political context, while leaving detailed content of the individual conflicts in the individual articles.
A possible option could be to propose reverting the title change back to Ethiopian civil conflict under Abiy Ahmed's administration to clarify that there's no claim of "a single war", but I wouldn't expect that to gain support. Boud (talk) 23:27, 21 March 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Do you think that this article should be structured similarly to
talk) 18:44, 22 March 2023 (UTC)[reply
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@
talk) 19:02, 22 March 2023 (UTC)[reply
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@
WP:SYNTH are both relevant to other Ethiopia-related articles, and newish editors may not understand why earlier editors developed these guidelines - or may disagree with them. Boud (talk) 20:28, 22 March 2023 (UTC)[reply
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@
talk) 20:52, 22 March 2023 (UTC)[reply
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@محرر البوق:, @Boud, The characteristics of the Haile Selassie and Abiy Ahmed′s rulings are completely different. Too many conflicting parties are involved since 2018, as listed in the Infobox. Isn't the point of the article to capture the nature of the various conflicts and participants? As for the title, if it needs to change to Ethiopian civil conflict under Abiy Ahmed's administration then, I would suggest adding his formal last name, Ali to the title. Petra0922 (talk) 10:40, 23 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@
MOS:INFOBOXPURPOSE
- "The purpose of an infobox: to summarize key facts that appear in the article. The less information it contains, the more effectively it serves that purpose, allowing readers to identify key facts at a glance. Of necessity, some infoboxes contain more than just a few fields; however, wherever possible, present information in short form, and exclude any unnecessary content."

Snice the purpose of an military infobox is to briefly summarize the key facts of an article and that this article quite complex due to the fact that it's talking about several conflicts rather then one. It's clear that an infobox wouldn't serve it's purpose here and possibly mislead the viewer (we have already established that some of the information in the infobox is not accurate).

talk) 05:19, 25 March 2023 (UTC)[reply
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@محرر البوق:, I noticed you removed the infobox before achieving consensus (
MOS:IBX), and if the question is layout and appearance, then it makes sense to improve the structure as in these articles: Yemeni_civil_war_(2014–present), Iraq War, or perhaps World War II article. The recent change needs to be reverted until editors agree on the removal of key information and also on the title. Just to let you know I move the page back to its original title until the discussion is closed. Petra0922 (talk) 09:21, 25 March 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
@
objected to the bold move, it's clear that there has to be talk page discussion before (possibly) removing the infobox (my prediction of an easy consensus was wrong).
To both of you: both of these issues now look like side issues of the current AfD – please open up talk page sections to see if consensus can be achieved. New people presenting arguments for or against deletion do not need to see the details of these two (infobox, name change) discussions, and can go to the talk page if they wish to read the details (or if they wish to contribute to those two particular issues). Boud (talk) 16:25, 25 March 2023 (UTC)[reply
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@
talk) 20:46, 25 March 2023 (UTC)[reply
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@
محرر البوق, we all are learning. One thing I would add is that for such big edits, it would help if you could leave a note to the editor who created the article or significantly contributed, so they participate in such discussions.
For updating the article’s talk page, do you want to add the deletion information and the title change? I will start the Infobox discussion and comment on the name change once created. If the title must change, then as suggested earlier, Abiy Ahmed Ali is the formal name. Petra0922 (talk) 11:14, 26 March 2023 (UTC)[reply
]

Oppose: As others already noted, all included conflicts are interlinked, making this article neccessary for a overview. My main point of comment is to also oppose the removal of al-Qaeda/al-Shabaab from the article. The 2022 al-Shabaab invasion of Ethiopia was specifically motivated by the existing unrest in Ethiopia, and al-Shabaab hoped to exploit the infighting to expand its own influence in Ethiopia. Several refs in the invasion article mention this. The entire invasion thus took place in the context of the civil conflict. Applodion (talk) 17:02, 26 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
talk page or in a deletion review
). No further edits should be made to this page.