Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jason Perry (politician)
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. —ScottyWong— 23:59, 3 February 2022 (UTC)
Jason Perry (politician)
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- Jason Perry (politician) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)
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Non-notable local politician. Not enough independent reliable source coverage to write a substantial article about him—the page currently includes no independent reliable sources. Fails the
]- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Politicians-related deletion discussions. Ralbegen (talk) 13:55, 19 January 2022 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of United Kingdom-related deletion discussions. Ralbegen (talk) 13:55, 19 January 2022 (UTC)
- Keep Entirely disagree here. Only started the article this morning, but can easily provide recent source from local papers such as https://www.mylondon.news/news/south-london-news/i-couldnt-eat-drink-sleep-20386548, as well as older articles regarding redevelopment of Croydon Town Centre when Cllr. Perry held the planning & regeneration brief when the Conservatives controlled the council prior to 2014. https://www.yourlocalguardian.co.uk/news/10073390.croydon-ready-to-walk-the-walk-says-councillor-jason-perry/. The Leader of the only Opposition Group on the Council, the first announced candidate for Mayor (again, the largest role of it's kind) being dismissed as "non-notable" doesn't stack up. Croydon's extensive recent coverage in national news owing to it's financial troubles has lead to a great deal of prominence of Council Officials and the Council in the local area. Independent reliable sources can easily be added to the article, and a warning about this at the top until this is done would seem a far more sensible course of action than deletion. Trimfrim20 (talk) 14:33, 19 January 2022 (UTC)
- Press releases aren't indepedent reliable sources. Most council leaders aren't notable enough for Wikipedia articles, let alone council opposition leaders: it's a matter of meeting Wikipedia's notability thresholds. If he becomes mayor of Croydon, he will most likely be notable enough for an article. Not yet, though. Ralbegen (talk) 14:53, 19 January 2022 (UTC)
- This seems to be a rather rude and dismissive response frankly, in particular the first sentence. I've included two separate sources just as an example, one being an interview with MyLondon - which is one of the largest local news sources in London (part of Reach PLC), the other being the Croydon Guardian, one of two major local papers (along with the Croydon Advertiser which is part of MyLondon). I would agree that "most" Council Leaders aren't notable enough - but "most" British Councils are not bankrupt - only two are, and Croydon is one of Britain's largest Boroughs (15th to be precise), and will be the 2nd largest mayoralty in the country (after Bristol), the largest Mayor & Cabinet system in London and is home to nearly 400,000 people and facing the biggest financial collapse, of any British borough, ever.
- Croydon has barely been out of the news in London since it's total financial collapse - hence the intense spotlight on the mayoral contest and council control ahead of next year and candidates which already are and increasingly will be prominent. Trimfrim20 (talk) 15:10, 19 January 2022 (UTC)
- I apologise if my comment appeared rude and dismissive, I'm happy to explain more thoroughly. The Croydon Guardian article that you linked to is transparently a press release. An interview about a local councillor having Covid does not especially contribute towards making that councillor notable enough to warrant an encyclopedia entry. There are lots of interviews with people who have had Covid, and those interviews don't make any of them notable. None of the facts about Croydon that you've listed here relate to the notability of Jason Perry—or to Hamida Ali or Tony Newman, who don't have articles either. Council leaders (and council opposition leaders) can be notable, but only if they pass relevant notability guidelines. Passing mentions, press releases, a Covid interview, and routine election coverage aren't enough to write an adequately sourced article about. Ralbegen (talk) 16:07, 19 January 2022 (UTC)
- Hi Ralbegen, that makes far more sense! There are definitely issues locally with independent press which has entered a rapid decline in the past decade - and as a result if it's not in MyLondon it doesn't happen! InsideCroydon covers Cllr. Perry extensively but is a hyper-partisan blog written by a local Labour Party member. Maybe a reasonable compromise is to move the article to draftspace until additional sources are added, and then publish at a later date? I think we can probably both agree that as the campaign heats up (particularly now the Labour candidate has also been selected) there will be far more press coverage (probably by regional and national press as well as London) and at that point there may well be a good case for widespread notability. I think we can both agree that Mayor's tend to have a significantly higher profile than Council Leader's, and as a result a Mayoral Candidate would arguable be more notable than a Council Leader! Think there arguably is a case for an article specifically related to the financial collapse of the council which would discuss Cllrs Newman and Ali (and others) in detail.
- Would you be happy to withdraw the nomination and have the article moved to draftspace as a reasonable compromise? Trimfrim20 (talk) 16:49, 19 January 2022 (UTC)
- I think the discussion has to take its course over seven days, but I don't think there's anything that'd mean creating an article in draftspace about Perry would be a bad idea. Election coverage is better kept to the election article rather than making articles for individual candidates, and it's usually considered to not contribute towards candidates' notability. If Perry becomes mayor, then I'd expect he'll receive an amount of reliable source coverage that will pass the GNG, and having a draft article ready about him might be useful. Until then, (proportionate) material is probably best kept to 2022 Croydon London Borough Council election. Ralbegen (talk) 17:39, 19 January 2022 (UTC)
- Hi Ralbegen - I live in the borough, and have to be honest that I think the spotlight on this race will only increase. I think if elected Mayor the case for an article would be indisputable given the directly-elected nature of the role (and given the role will likely be of a similar profile to Marvin Rees, Mayor of Bristol), but I think press attention in the meantime may well pass GNG on its own. We shall wait and see! As nobody else has commented you can withdraw the nomination using the process at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion#Procedure for non-administrator close (nominator withdrawal). If you're happy to do that I'm happy to move to draftspace, but obviously wouldn't be the right thing to do while the nomination is outstanding! Trimfrim20 (talk) 18:16, 19 January 2022 (UTC)
- I think the discussion has to take its course over seven days, but I don't think there's anything that'd mean creating an article in draftspace about Perry would be a bad idea. Election coverage is better kept to the election article rather than making articles for individual candidates, and it's usually considered to not contribute towards candidates' notability. If Perry becomes mayor, then I'd expect he'll receive an amount of reliable source coverage that will pass the GNG, and having a draft article ready about him might be useful. Until then, (proportionate) material is probably best kept to 2022 Croydon London Borough Council election. Ralbegen (talk) 17:39, 19 January 2022 (UTC)
- I apologise if my comment appeared rude and dismissive, I'm happy to explain more thoroughly. The Croydon Guardian article that you linked to is transparently a press release. An interview about a local councillor having Covid does not especially contribute towards making that councillor notable enough to warrant an encyclopedia entry. There are lots of interviews with people who have had Covid, and those interviews don't make any of them notable. None of the facts about Croydon that you've listed here relate to the notability of Jason Perry—or to Hamida Ali or Tony Newman, who don't have articles either. Council leaders (and council opposition leaders) can be notable, but only if they pass relevant notability guidelines. Passing mentions, press releases, a Covid interview, and routine election coverage aren't enough to write an adequately sourced article about. Ralbegen (talk) 16:07, 19 January 2022 (UTC)
- Press releases aren't indepedent reliable sources. Most council leaders aren't notable enough for Wikipedia articles, let alone council opposition leaders: it's a matter of meeting Wikipedia's notability thresholds. If he becomes mayor of Croydon, he will most likely be notable enough for an article. Not yet, though. Ralbegen (talk) 14:53, 19 January 2022 (UTC)
- Delete Interviews do not add toward notability. Routine coverage of a person during an election expected of any candidate for public office also does not add up to notability.John Pack Lambert (talk) 16:58, 21 January 2022 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, – AssumeGoodWraith (talk | contribs) 06:34, 27 January 2022 (UTC)
- Delete. Borough council isn't a level of office that confers an automatic free pass over WP:NPOL, but the article features neither the depth of substance nor the volume of sourcing needed to get him over the bar. Bearcat (talk) 18:17, 31 January 2022 (UTC)]
- It’s an interesting point. I think there is the relevant content out there but I’ve not yet had a chance to add it to the article as I’ve been unwell the past few weeks. I’d previously suggested moving it to draft to get those more detailed sources added but nobody seemed to respond to the suggestion. Trimfrim20 (talk) 21:19, 1 February 2022 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.