Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of current professional wrestling champions

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
talk page or in a deletion review
). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. slakr\ talk / 01:51, 19 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

List of current professional wrestling champions

List of current professional wrestling champions (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats
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Not notable, original search HHH Pedrigree (talk) 22:15, 10 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete The article is not notable. Champions in pro wrestling? Well, we should talk about ALL active championships in THE ENTIRE world in ALL promotions, BTW more than 100. With all mexicans, japanese and american titles, we're talking about 1000 titles. Second, original search. The author created a list with the current world champions in major promotions, deleted by other user because it's original search. the user put the promotions he thinks are major. Why not AJPW or WWC? Also, are ROH and NWA major promotions? Original search. Looks like the user tryed to create his own world heavyweight championship list. Also, unsourced. (PWI, a magazine is the only source) --HHH Pedrigree (talk) 22:20, 10 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
    • I've struck your "delete" as duplicative of your nomination, as formatting your subsequent comment in this way gives the false impression that another editor is separately supporting your nomination. postdlf (talk) 13:12, 11 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Wrestling-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 00:20, 11 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 00:20, 11 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Lists of people-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 00:20, 11 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete, perhaps even speedy delete. We've had discussions like this in the past about
    List of professional wrestling world champions. Pro Wrestling isn't a competitive sport, at least not in the traditional sense, and has no oversight committees. Therefore, any backyard group can label their strap a world championship without being challenged. Other wrestling promotions may or may not recognize the title as being a world championship and wrestling media (such as Pro Wrestling Illustrated) may or may not recognize it, but there is no objective criteria. As an encyclopedia we have no authority on this matter. We cannot decide which championships are major or minor. However, if we were to list every championship from every promotion in existence then we would have a very unmanageable list on our hands. The best thing to do, and what we have agreed in the past, is to delete lists like this.LM2000 (talk) 00:30, 11 June 2014 (UTC)[reply
    ]
@Colapeninsula @Lugnuts About Original Search, it is when he said "major promotion" and "world championship". Project discussed and we haven't a definition about both therms, which are subjetive. About the number of promotions, with the templates about promotions in USA, Japán and Mexico, I count 79. Promotions like NWA or CMLL use a lot of titles, we're talking about near 300 titles. If you take a look on some independent promotions' articles, a lot of them aren't update. --HHH Pedrigree (talk) 13:57, 11 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
You mean original research. I don't see any problem with this list. 79? Wow. Big numbers. Not unlike this list, for example. Lugnuts Dick Laurent is dead 17:38, 11 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
@Lugnuts: - you pointed to List of current world boxing champions? That list has championships of five companies (one is a magazine though) with 17 weight classes, which theoretically equates to 85 champions listed. Earlier you pointed to active companies from the List of professional wrestling promotions, which I counted has 90-100 companies. Each company doesn't have one single title, but multiple. Usually one top singles title and one team title, optionally one or more secondary singles title, rarely one secondary team title, optionally one women's title. I'm not going to count the total number of champions but it's very likely we're looking at 300+ champions listed or even more. starship.paint "YES!" 10:41, 12 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Do most of those 300+ champions have articles (or are included in the promotion's article) on WP? Chances are they do, and therefore there are editors who'll be updating them individually to reflect who the current champion is. So having one master list can't be too much work, once the initial shell is setup. Lugnuts Dick Laurent is dead 11:18, 12 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • I actually don't think that most of the 300 champions have articles. Take a look at the Canadian companies. 6 companies. 1/5, 2/5, 0/3, 0/0, 0/5 and 0/5. Total of 23 champions, 3 have articles. Setup is one thing. Keeping it continually updated is another - also, this is a current list - if it is not updated - it becomes factually inaccurate. The Pro Wrestling Wikiproject is understaffed I'm afraid, I think it'll be very, very hard for us (blue editors) to keep up. We're going to rely on IPs to keep the article factually accurate? starship.paint "YES!" 13:22, 12 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
We rely on all articles to be kept factually accurate. I don't see how this is any different. Lugnuts Dick Laurent is dead 13:55, 12 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
For any other article which is not updated, it's usually missing information that doesn't render the current information in the article inaccurate. For any list of current ..., if new champions are not stated it is simply wrong and misleading to say that 'this guy is the current champion'. starship.paint "YES!" 14:12, 12 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
It's the whole problem. The used divided the promotions between majors and...? Then, he divided the championships (world and seconday). However, he didn't put all the promotions, only promotions he wanted and he didn't put all titles (WWE Tag Team, Divas?). The article is a mess, is incompleted. Also, if somebody takes a look on some indy promoions, he'll see a lot of titles aren't updates. Does somebody want to try? --HHH Pedrigree (talk) 18:16, 13 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comments First, there is something called "assume good faith". I get the impression that HHH Pedigree isn't a native English speaker. Second, the aforementioned discussion can be found in the archives of
    WT:PW. I'm on my phone as opposed to a real computer, which means that it's more trouble than it's worth to dig up the link. That discussion focused on what criteria makes a championship a "world" championship. Strangely enough, we appear to be applying it to this discussion, even though the list's title says "champions" rather than "world champions". Third, after reading the list, I agree that SOFIXIT is the best approach to take. That isn't necessarily a keep vote, however. As I've mentioned elsewhere, Wikipedia's seeming obsession with reflecting what's current may mirror the state of immediate-onset amnesia found just about everywhere else on the web, but it isn't entirely compatible with the goals of building an encyclopedia. RadioKAOS / Talk to me, Billy / Transmissions 08:40, 12 June 2014 (UTC)[reply
    ]
Yeah, I'm not a native-English speaker. I use (usually) simple sentences and TV catchphrases. --HHH Pedrigree (talk) 18:16, 13 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
One of the discussions was
WP:GNG (rather important), each with many titles of their own, I think you're bound to have a mess of an article on your hands. There's probably a good reason why there isn't a general category for all wrestling championships without being divided into a number of subcategories (see Category:Professional wrestling championships). Splitting this into separate articles (list of professional wrestling midcard championships, list of professional wrestling womens championships, etc.) would be a better idea, but a flawed idea nonetheless, as we shot that idea down in the previous world heavyweight championship discussion.LM2000 (talk) 17:55, 12 June 2014 (UTC)[reply
]
"This would better be represented by a category if organization is needed.". Read
WP:CLN. Lugnuts Dick Laurent is dead 09:35, 14 June 2014 (UTC)[reply
]
Keep- Simply because of the ridiculous notion that this is original research. Feedback ☎ 23:53, 14 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Argument for keep? Michael22 decided to put only 7 promotion and we list more than 100. He decided by his own and subjective criteria divided in major promotions (NWA is a major promotion?) and world titles (NWA title is a world title? ROH? We decided it in the project). That's original REsearch. This is another list about world champions, but this time, he didn't complete the job and he expects we care about the list. In a few months (if somebody decided to complete the list with +300 active titles) the list will be a mess, because nobody cares about titles from small promotions, like WxW or the endless NWA territories, or Titles from Puerto Rico. Even the author deleted the article from his own list "articles I've created". The doesn't care about the article. --HHH Pedrigree (talk) 00:11, 15 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Based purely on notability, the topic is definitely notable. Your "nobody cares" argument is just as as flawed as your OR argument. If not 1 person cared, we wouldn't have the individual articles to begin with. The list requires cleanup and that includes adding more titles. But nothing here is original research. There is no original thoughts here. There is no made-up analysis to support a biased conclusion. There is nothing OR about this. Once this article is cleaned up and organized correctly, it could even become a FL. This article was nominated at AFD due to your misguided understanding of what
WP:OR is about. Feedback ☎ 18:22, 15 June 2014 (UTC)[reply
]
as I said, he decided to include some "major" promotions and "world " titles based in his own criteria. It is another try to create a list of world champions, which was deleted by the project.-HHH Pedrigree (talk) 22:08, 15 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
A good example of "nobody cares" would be List of Yukon Quest competitors. That list hasn't been updated in several years and also has a handful of lesser issues, yet remains an FL. I live a short distance from the Yukon Quest trail and many of my neighbors are dog mushers, but that doesn't necessarily mean that I'm willing to take on yet another task. That may be the important factor here. The Yukon Quest happens only once a year. Title changes in professional wrestling happen a lot more often. If it came down to you and you alone to keep the list from becoming outdated, would you stick with it? RadioKAOS / Talk to me, Billy / Transmissions 19:53, 15 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Exactly what RadioKAOS says, Feedback. Nobody has even bothered to improve the article while it is facing AfD despite its issues of sourcing, categorization or lack of inclusion of all notable promotions with an article on Wikipedia. Feedback, are you or any other keep voters willing to constantly keep tabs and source for on 90+ promotions to keep it factually accurate? starship.paint "YES!" 23:38, 15 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
talk page or in a deletion review
). No further edits should be made to this page.
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