Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Maureen Mbondiah

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
talk page or in a deletion review
). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. —⁠ScottyWong⁠— 05:44, 29 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Maureen Mbondiah

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Maureen Mbondiah (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)
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Uk businesswoman who seems to be completely unknown in the UK, even though some "articles" in foreign media give a different impression. You get e.g. things like this, a glowing article about her at the occasion of her nomination for the "prestigious" CEO Care Professional Awards. Bizarrely, the existence of this prestigious award is not even mentioned anywhere,at all, but in this article[1]. Which makes the award and the source meaningless. The same goes for things like "EAWA Philanthropist of the year".

Fram (talk) 16:04, 23 June 2021 (UTC)[reply
]

  • Keep Thank you for noticing, however i think we can keep the article, the subject is notable with accomplishments in her field.

As for the award, When i did my research at first it was hard to find the awarding body until I searched online with the full name McAlpine CEO Care Professionals Awards. I came across their website to understand more about the organisation https://mcalpinecare.com/. I then realised that organisation does not do much press coverage, they communicate with their nominees via email who then publicise in the press or as social media announcements.

https://www.facebook.com/AmberSupportServices/posts/we-are-delighted-to-announce-that-we-have-been-moninated-for-the-mcalpine-ceo-ca/2594468220659120/

https://www.sure-grp.co.uk/news/sure-healthcare-wins-mcalpine-ceo-care-professional-award/

https://www.ascotcareagency.co.uk/latest-news/ascot-care-agency-nominated-for-award

Solace Care post[1]

Aspire post[2]

Apologies for the long links.

According to a statement on their website: The McAlpine Care Professional Awards (MCPA) celebrates excellence throughout the care industry, recognising team efforts across the UK regardless of size or CQC rating. https://mcalpinecare.com/care-awards-2021

Nenerue (talk) 17:38, 25 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ https://www.facebook.com/SolaceCSLtd/photos/basw.Abq1JFTDpF0rLj2UmoJA0z7YPsZ1CAERZf3m0pS6Srf6pKKPAg9RtmuJ3aCNUvFdDYCIxcOrovHO39XPT1khZWdTN2_DMjySXIH-eC0Yp781exkVxNfr20temxGfSV9uVco2_hdhkZpK0Yw3Lkg_Ttq8bM_9oen8Qj1389WfgCTm7Q/3286732584672343/?opaqueCursor=Abr2inaIEKDFEqiRYLthBj6bCsKa7wYp97aj-2gjKUjKcPa2im2zxUJP9EGPBp52BiMgro--wvb0EsjLzmhpxjiXTZyRyq6zO4crE-4ZVyhhjZLksBrsxs_vzKZW5ji-P-ePEHTt9_WJVTUQ9XjZv19piQ9xi5JeForqP9zZdrgb_QvFkzjjBz8GnDwKXVXuC0inSjgpx5e8MDHf8_PuGqWdJaWHLkrO7llmd_7N1Frtcqsw6Fep7EvaqbNtQxByeHTTs0k52BdPHToq7B70grv23k7fMpfvE09ghedR_l8Uwwxk6-U2FDT1As-rKi7YajOKkV3L9NpdipNgqVLz6taMIyQbyd-r3UXAJa9puwt8bQrXYH1-WNLP2ZpnO8kf4OhVMJA4bibyRqY19sUcTLquFgY9hiXRC0zk-Al1rAeEGvjX6KS3h0avCZ-VhaKkkOlEvOtZtXbL8CoENkmAyTJJoGR5YHUR1qsfKK30tM3CNd6D1uFoJia2WBTc0epWKcBj9tkQk_aqP86wbYCiF8gHg3JEDVsqfMmwL5fNIrUf1ON_tQTji9FN91_i6KMZDl0VrDg3EwLQToyGuFwqPnacN4sBwBwu1q8z9LjdGJpDVw
  2. ^ https://www.facebook.com/aspirecsswirral/photos/basw.Abq2OO7x-uNk7i_Y8qN0S_AagEQ9X2NvTMDHd0P-uzE1-KnOkvfGO49yByInm0DNVkx3mG6zeaJ6psk2U-59aQpNhXvA9wfV54fkfpz-Uz3-yFrfVgRDUSFAzH8ngVV11M327xcDzpRcDCSxQwAaRHC5JlpZQ44p1Q54IP1EGksAoQ/1637672086411343/?opaqueCursor=AbotLEYR8BQDXLqBxv4X2BruRSwFSlAACZZKe5OcBrIqipukHY6llg-hgF46v2mtK3np5LIltfuJpFiF8mrwQSvUrIly7g1a7vM32IAKHRX1AdM-zY5dnj_CVwS0h-LRdrvBOAPyPj7a0h9nVdzyZHLOQ75AbnfjqeWp8fLEX_CpJT-2KpHw8d89oea6fsp9uzYJpBVL62siJ6NmPdJ_KrC6-0kBh-kIcPrEniUKz5sp35G-SNljXU99qpwJ8u1ZbBHerwx7pXfcl29ffrFtF0Xmh6BwExiQSS_FZ8xkrLPdRvycYDPHdiFyX_x6itmSOdaA6fwh52i4iHm-fP7EWTOUzgx_PIWWuWtkk8E8fXvUAH4KBvnVb1vP9WAKf4nJWSEoJ2VeK8YdgPC0XvM0ciE4gHZXR0DPFkJtGkoCOqCkZE-NZjopMiVsPQOJThaQyyzEPq-T58QUwaIMDtLqDqFO1A779oMtkVHiIQogyZQKXjwV03Wu9GHQzkmy3rxlgF3mk81ZxM324t0cnBJOtb2InyoxxK3lx74vRPORaweIvE3gAKCIwQkCjcevxBBRFp8
Note: This discussion has been included in the
Fram (talk) 16:04, 23 June 2021 (UTC)[reply
]
Note: This discussion has been included in the
Fram (talk) 16:04, 23 June 2021 (UTC)[reply
]
Note: This discussion has been included in the
Fram (talk) 16:04, 23 June 2021 (UTC)[reply
]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Businesspeople-related deletion discussions. Spiderone(Talk to Spider) 19:02, 23 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Zimbabwe-related deletion discussions. Spiderone(Talk to Spider) 19:02, 23 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. Spiderone(Talk to Spider) 19:02, 23 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Kindly take note or consider that the person is also being reconised by other awarding organisations in her field and her biography is also featured on
    Women Economic Forum
    which could prove her notability in the field. Am appealing for consideration keeping the article. If there are improvements to be made there can be done.

Nenerue (talk) 15:45, 29 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep: coverage in The Herald and NewsDay. If she's not notable in the UK, she does seem to have a degree of notability in Zimbabwe. NHCLS (talk) 13:13, 2 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Daniel (talk) 23:52, 2 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep per NHCLS, she seems to have received coverage in her country (Zimbabwe).-Xclusivzik (talk) 19:17, 4 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 11:24, 10 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I'm struggling a bit with this one. The Zimbabwe Herald article (which is a report of an interview with her) says "Her name might not ring a bell in some people’s minds, but she has made strides in empowerment circles. Mbondiah is an entrepreneur based in the United Kingdom with interests in fashion, literature and health." If one of the better available secondary sources is apologising that she's not well-known, it may indeed be true that she's not well known. If she hasn't yet done enough to become well known, it's perhaps Too Soon. Meanwhile, I'm not sure what to make of McAlpine care, who gave her an award. According to the care quality commission (cqc) who have oversight over such businesses, they have yet to inspect it, and it's registered as a flat with a mobile phone (though the website gives it a proper phone). According to companies house, it consists of a single employee, and has assets of less than £10,000. I think we have to entertain the possibility that its awards are entirely meaningless; a big website with nothing behind it. The Beffta award nomination, which is only a nomination (best author) is for Mel Mbondiah, not Maureen Mbondiah; are we sure these are the same person? I'm also not sure about the mbcc awards, how meaningful they are? It doesn't seem hard to nominate someone[[2]], but she is listed as a finalist. I don't know how much extra you have to do, to become a finalist! In her interview in the standard, she claims " I won the Outstanding Business Achievers Awards International 2021 and Outstanding Business Achievers Awards UK 2021" but if I do a Google search for "Outstanding Business Achievers Awards" I get only this interview, and if I do it without the " ", I get ukbizawards, who are still selling tickets to their final awards ceremony for 2021. I'm not sure how much value one can attach to an award one cannot trace. Again, I can't find the "Midlands Business and Community Awards" 2016. I can find only the Midlands Business Awards [[3]] for which she is not listed as a finalist. I am trying to assume all is well here, and that she's a fine person with good notability, but I'm struggling. Is any of this real, or are we looking at a non-notable businesswoman who runs a probably perfectly decent run-of-the-mill care provider, and has written a motivational book, but who happens to have a big charisma and a rather edgy approach to blowing her own trumpet? Elemimele (talk) 12:50, 10 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
forget the book, she was one of 300 contributors. The book's creator is Ruth Cyster-Stuettgen (not Ruth Strutten as in the article); it does in fairness say she's just a contributor, in the article. Her magazine doesn't seem to exist any more, but the orphanage in Zimbabwe has a website.Elemimele (talk) 13:37, 10 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Thank you for your notes with good observations, I just think there should be a difference between being popular and being prominent or notable rather, her work in her field is notable, how about other sources and recognitions. She also features on Women Ecomomic Forum, thats not a platform for persons who haven't done enough to prove their status.

I noticed in research that each and every field has its own recognition platforms that award for merit, they may not be as popular to us who are not in the field but have weight in meaning in their respective areas.

So I think she has done notable work to put her name on the mark in her field and we shouldn't disregard her notability.

Nenerue (talk) 07:24, 11 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not disregarding her notability. I'm just trying to assess it. In the UK she is not running a notable business. It's a middle-of-the-road, perfectly normal, small-scale care-provider, rated by cqc as 'good', but nothing special, nor is it a nation-wide huge organisation. The orphanage in Zimbabwe has no appearances in secondary sources, and its own website says "we plan to house...", implying it might not even be open yet. All the newspaper sources about her are interviews, which means they are primary, not secondary. And I cannot trace any of her awards as actually both meaningful and existing. Some of them look strongly as though they don't exist; usually when people describe awards they've received, they get the name of the award sufficiently right that the award can be found by a Google search. Many of hers cannot. It seems symptomatic of her that she describes herself as "co-author" of the book, when it has almost as many authors as pages - 300. I believe she is genuinely philanthropic and cares, and I hope she succeeds. But I don't see any evidence she's succeeded yet, and I do see a lot of evidence that she is prone to extreme exaggeration about her achievements and status, and is very good at publicity (which is making it very hard to assess her notability). But in the end, it's not a question of what you or I think, it's what the great world of newspapers etc. think; I have yet to see a single secondary source referring to her or her work. Elemimele (talk) 21:45, 12 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
notability
, remembering that sources must be reliable, independent (so not interviews) and substantial, would be helpful toward resolution.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Seraphimblade Talk to me 18:20, 21 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete — I was “walking” past when I stumbled on this, Let me try and explain my POV which largely aligns with what
    Fram said in a potion of their nom rationale above. Generally, winning awards do not auto confer notability and even worse when the award is a non notable award. Any body can invent or create award shows, hell even worse here in Africa (here it’s literally a business) and Asia, what I'm saying is just about any person or group of persons can create award shows. Except clearly notable awards and notable categories (“Awards”) do not confer automatic notability as some poorly worded guidelines here might have you believe. I’d give y’all a real life scenario, In Nigeria, it’s pure business, certain people conjure up award shows in their basement, proceed to contact individuals mainly “celebrities” and “entrepreneurs” , and say to them; “we are(insert whatever nonsensical name of the award show or award they just created in their heads) and we notice your good works, thus an award “abc” is available for you if you can pay an amount “xyz” “, Sorry for the wall of text but yeah I’m with Fram on this one. Celestina007 (talk) 18:55, 21 July 2021 (UTC)[reply
    ]
  • Delete: This article's references seem like some sort of Publicity Campaign to me, the article titles and style of writing by the journalists feels like its controlled for an agenda to create an image.

I think its too soon. Zvandofarira2 (talk) 20:18, 21 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete - I cleaned this up a little so it could be judged on its own merits, and not for grammar and syntax. However, there's only one real source of media coverage - The Herald. Newsday is a simple announcement of a breakfast she hosted. A Google search doesn't turn up much else. I looked up her businesses, and one is a dead link, and the the other has some grammar and typos which hurts notability. I removed the nominations for awards that she didn't win, so we could focus on the most important ones. She won an award for having a business that earned £500,000, nice but not earth shattering. She's doing good work for women and children, and has overcome hardship, but I'm not seeing enough to keep. Needs more sourcing to demonstrate notability. TimTempleton (talk) (cont) 20:34, 21 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for your efforts @TimTempleton, but this is getting really complicated. The BEFTA award was to Mel Mbondiah, not Maureen Mbondiah. Now both have linkedIn profiles, both look very similar, both come from Zimbabwe, and both work around Wolverhampton, one (Mel) is a social worker with a series of solid council roles, the other (Maureen) runs a Dravens healthcare. Mel has written a single-author book that can be found on Amazon, Maureen contributed to the 300-author book. But on the linked-in profiles, Mel claims to have been at EATC private school Zimbabwe" doing A-levels in 2000-2002, while Maureen was at Birmingham City University doing Mental Health Nursing from 1999-2001, which suggests they're not the same person. There are also no other overlaps between the CV sections of their LinkedIn profiles although they overlap in time. Meanwhile, Mel's LinkedIn says she was director of Goshen business solutions in 2012, which according to companies house was founded in 2012 by Maureen, Melody and a couple of others. So I'm guessing Mel might be a relative. Either way, if they're not the same person (and the fact they were listed as two different directors in Companies house suggests strongly they're not), the BEFTA award doesn't apply to Maureen. Also, the Midlands Business and Community Awards 2016 remains unreferenced and (at least by me) untraceable. Elemimele (talk) 22:12, 21 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
That just reinforces the delete vote. A single somewhat decent source doesn't make a keep. TimTempleton (talk) (cont) 22:25, 22 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Fram thank you guys, i think the article should be deleted or incubated in draft space, it is too soon for Wikipedia, i do agree with everyone.Nenerue (talk) 10:38, 23 July 2021 (UTC)[reply
]
  • Keep: I agree with Celestina007 that some awards could be pay-for-play type, but at least one of them has its own Wiki page and that is what I always look at. If the award has a Wiki page then we should assume that is legit and notable and based on a few other new coverage, I feel we should keep this one. Peter303x (talk) 08:56, 28 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
talk page or in a deletion review
). No further edits should be made to this page.
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