Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Nina Hossain

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Keep. Required sources were provided. Non-admin closure per

Nina Hossain

Nina Hossain (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) - (View log)

This article does not meet the minimum threshold of notability, rather it is more of a fan page for an individual with some fame. Hence should be deleted, or placed within the main ITN/ITV News article.

• Delete unless properly sourced and cited by end of this AfD Alf photoman 16:15, 14 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep. Newsreader on national news of a major channel. Definitely notable. -- Necrothesp 17:40, 14 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Strong Keep per Necrothesp. We have biographies on plenty of less well-known newsreaders - Nina works for the popular & national ITV. _└ ^UkPaolo/_talk^┐ 18:04, 14 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Strong Keep. She was the head anchor of the BBC national evening news for a while and is now an anchor with ITV. Roughly as notable in the UK as Roger Mudd in the US. --Charlene 19:19, 14 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep. Meets
  WP:BIO, notable as the presenter (anchor) on a key BBC newscast. Agent 86 19:24, 14 January 2007 (UTC)[reply
  ]
• Keep per Agent 86. --Davidbober 20:26, 14 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep notable enough. ← ANAS ^Talk? 20:36, 14 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep I know it's not as important as a list of what bottles a character in a video game likes to collect, but hey, a real person who has been a regular newsreader on both of the main UK news channels would seem to meet notability requirements. --Larry laptop 21:30, 14 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

*Strong Delete. There are thousands of articles like this one on Wikipedia which are clearly meant to be deleted. Even if there are articles of less well known newsreaders it doesn't justify keeping this article. Wikipedia has strict guidelines on what should be included, and this article should be judged according to that, not how it compares to articles of other newsreaders.

• Keep Subject enjoys name recognition in the UK; while such fluff as this from The Sun and this from the Daily Mirror have no place in the article, they demonstrate notability per
  WP:BIO Eludium-q36 18:13, 15 January 2007 (UTC)[reply
  ]

I think this article pretty much finishes off the question of notability. She's been the subject of articles in various notable publication (the mirror, the sun and the telegraph). What more needs to be said. In March, when Emily Maitlis went off to have a baby, she was given the highly noticeable London regional news slot after the BBC's 6.30 bulletin. Next week, she takes over from heavily pregnant Mary Nightingale presenting ITV's early evening news with Mark Austin. The two prime-time slots in the UK. --Larry laptop 19:19, 15 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete Personally I feel neither name recognition nor fame are enough to justify the existence of the article. Neither is comparing it to other, less important articles, if they don't stand up to wikipedia's standards they should be deleted too. —The preceding
  unsigned comment was added by Bigredmonster (talk • contribs) 19:12, 15 January 2007 (UTC). _{first edit - from the timing and history of this afd - I would suggest that it's likely this is 87.125.38 but it's not worth a checkuser to confirm. --Larry laptop 19:25, 15 January 2007 (UTC) Sorry about that, yes that was me. Just to add to my original point, this article caught my attention because I tried creating one just like this about a journalist, and citied all my sources and followed all the rules. It got deleted, twice, and the justification was pretty much the same as this. It's just I feel wikipedia needs to be consistent when applying such rules to these articles, else it's a clear case of double standards.Bigredmonster 20:31, 15 January 2007 (UTC)}[reply
  ]

Comment I would agree with you - articles should be deleted in accordance with our policies. If other biographies exist which should not, they should be deleted in accordance with our policies, rather than used as justification for keeping equally non-notable other articles. However, you've failed to point out how Nina Hossain is not sufficiently notable to merit an article here. As you suggest, we do have a consistent set of rules to apply to such articles: it's

WP:BIO and I see no reason why Nina Hossain is not sufficiently notable per these guidelines. How can "fame" never be "enough to justify the existence" of an article? Isn't that, in essence, what notability is? It sounds to me that you want this article deleted out of jealousy for the deletion of an article you authored. I'd suggest you could use your time more profitably discussing the reasons behind it's deletion at Wikipedia:Deletion review. _└ ^UkPaolo/_talk^┐ 22:21, 15 January 2007 (UTC)[reply

]

Comment I'm glad you asked. The Central Criterion of

WP:BIO

includes the following:

• • The person has been the primary subject of multiple non-trivial published works whose source is independent of the person.1 - Whilst the Telegraph article comes under this, it is practically the only one out there. Those of The Sun nor The Mirror, as mentioned previously by one poster, aren't credible enough (i.e. don't contain enough info) to back up the Telegraph. In short, only one published works of her exists (to the best of my knowledge)

• • This criterion includes published works in all forms, such as newspaper articles, magazine articles, books, scholarly papers, and television documentaries² except for the following:
    • Media reprints of the person's autobiography or self-promotional works.³
    • Works carrying merely trivial coverage, such as newspaper articles that just mention the person in passing, telephone directory listings, or simple records of births and deaths.⁴See above, both The Sun and Mirror artciles fall partically under this

"in passing" - how is an article that is about a named person (where the name of the individual forms part of the article title) "in passing". So neither fn2, fn3, or fn4 apply unless you can explicitly tell me how they "fall partically under this" ? It's not a media reprint, it's not a trival mention in passing. please explain further your reasoning. --Larry laptop 14:38, 16 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

As for "only one", Guardian Story about her, another guardian story about a prime-time show she hosted that got 4 million viewers. So that's stories in the Guardian, others from the guardian here. That's before we even bother searching the notable specialist media publications. I'm sorry your article got deleted but WP:POINT is a waste of everyone's time. --Larry laptop 14:50, 16 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Re Larry: I never said it was to do with "in passing". this has no more then a few lines on the subject hence my reason to cite it as trivial coverage. However having seen you're newly posted links, I concede. For future reference however, would an independant article be enough to justify a new article/prevent deletion? Bigredmonster 15:01, 16 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

As to the point you raised about 'fame' equating notability, I don't think fame alone results in notability (at least not in the domain of wikipedia), and it's also highly questionable just how much fame can be attributed to Hossain. In fact, some would argue that whatever fame the subject has is down to sex appeal, and I would be inclined to agree with that. As a journalist if she achieved something significant in her field then fair enough, she deserves to be included. Sir David Frost is a journalist worthy of notability because he has achieved much in his field and is highly recognisable both in the United Kingdom and outside it. And not only that, but if Hossain did something outside of newsreading that increases her fame, then that too might merit her an article. Natasha Kaplinsky, for example, is notable not only as a newsreader but also as a popular celebrity thanks to her appearance on prime time television programs in the UK. But as it stands, being an ITV newsreader alone is not enough for inclusion in an encyclopedia, and I don't see how knowing about her snowboarding and iPod passions are relevant for inclusion either.

However, please feel free to raise any other points from what I have said. Bigredmonster 13:14, 16 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Basically, as somebody who regularly features on a mainstream television channel she is notable. You seem to be a little confused about the function of AfD. It is not to judge whether what has been written is notable, but whether the subject written about is notable. Nina Hossain is certainly notable enough to have an article written about her, although all that is currently in the article may not be encyclopaedic. Note that

WP:BIO states that one of the criteria for inclusion is: "Notable actors and television personalities who have appeared in well-known films or television productions. Notability can be determined by: (e.g.) Name recognition". Since she appears regularly on national news on a major TV channel in a populous country she blatantly meets this criterion. -- Necrothesp 13:25, 16 January 2007 (UTC)[reply

]

As a rule of thumb, triviality is a measure of relevance, not length. Eludium-q36 18:09, 16 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep - Just as notable as comparable US-based news reporters. --lquilter 22:38, 18 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep Anchor and reporter on major national television networks. --Oakshade 06:32, 20 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.