Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ottoman Israel

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
talk page or in a deletion review
). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Sandstein 07:36, 12 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Ottoman Israel

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dab page with a

WP:TWODABS . Recommend Redirect: to the PRIMARYTOPIC and any Disambiguation hatnote / Further info / See also done there per my argument at Talk:Ottoman Palestine Widefox; talk 14:16, 4 January 2016 (UTC)[reply

]

Ping editors User:Chesdovi User:Debresser User:Al Ameer son User:Greyshark09 User:Midas02 User:Bkonrad User:Emmette Hernandez Coleman.
See also A similar dab is
Ottoman Palestine, which is AfDed separately as combining dabs is sub-optimal. Widefox; talk 14:18, 4 January 2016 (UTC)[reply
]

Speedy keep 1. Consensus to have this page, and to have it as a disambiguation page specifically, was established on Talk:Ottoman Palestine. 2. There is an active discussion there about if this disambiguation page can be improved, without deletion being an option, at least till this redhead nominator started bulldozing into the discussion. Debresser (talk) 14:40, 4 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The argument for deletion proper has been addressed on Talk:Ottoman Palestine, since that is where the discussion is taking place. Debresser (talk) 14:48, 4 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

See

WP:CLUE. Three dab project editors have voiced concerns (about the similar dab at the talk and project). Arguments not based on guideline/policy have little weight. Widefox; talk 15:38, 4 January 2016 (UTC)[reply

]

Concerns are being addressed there. Deletion is not on the table, and this proposal is detrimental to the consensus forming there. Debresser (talk) 17:10, 4 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

TWODABS has not be addressed, so deletion is on the table here as it fails (which ignored at the talk). This allows wider participation too. Disambiguation is not what you think it is. Widefox; talk 17:54, 4 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the

talk) 14:49, 4 January 2016 (UTC)[reply

]

Note to closer I answered the dab project note over "an aggressive editor". Behavioural aspects of this should be addressed on their page Debresser and Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#Debresser_.28relist.29 Widefox; talk 17:36, 4 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Note to closer Please review also the discussion at
Ottoman Palestine, which edit warrior Widefox is trying to circumvent against wide participation there. Debresser (talk) 17:42, 4 January 2016 (UTC)[reply
]

delete not really a disambiguation page. - üser:Altenmann >t 16:35, 4 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of History-related deletion discussions. Jbh ^Talk 18:02, 4 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Disambiguations-related deletion discussions. Jbh ^Talk 18:02, 4 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Middle East-related deletion discussions. Jbh ^Talk 18:02, 4 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Israel-related deletion discussions. Jbh ^Talk 18:02, 4 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Palestine-related deletion discussions. Jbh ^Talk 18:02, 4 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. Israel did not exist as a state during the Ottoman period. Note that the word Israel does not appear at all in Ottoman Syria. This makes as much sense as British United States. Clarityfiend (talk) 01:06, 5 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Delete, per Clarityfriend --Midas02 (talk) 01:10, 5 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. No such place. -- Necrothesp (talk) 17:08, 6 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - should stay as is.
Ottoman Lebanon redirect also exists, though obviously there was no Lebanese state at the time; same with Ottoman Iraq.GreyShark (dibra) 17:57, 6 January 2016 (UTC)[reply
]
- The difference is that Lebanon was a recognised place in Ottoman times, whereas Israel was not. It was called Palestine. -- Necrothesp (talk) 18:34, 6 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Greyshark09,

WP:OTHERSTUFF isn't a powerful argument in deletion discussions generally. But going along with it, by that logic, they are all primary topics but this isn't. We don't make primary topics or dabs by looking at other dabs either, but those examples aren't even the same as this dab. Widefox; talk 03:02, 7 January 2016 (UTC)[reply

]

Redirect to History of Israel#Ottoman_rule_(1517–1920) as was done for Lebanon, little other possibility for disambiguation. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 18:10, 6 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: The state, nation, country, or notion of Israel didn't exist during the Ottoman Empire, moreover the Jews that lived in Palestine didn't employ the national designation "Israeli'. George Al-Shami (talk) 22:56, 6 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Same correct for Palestine.GreyShark (dibra) 09:40, 7 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

you are

talkallam) 12:12, 7 January 2016 (UTC)[reply

]

Delete: Considering the argument "if Lebanon can have one why can't Israel", unlike Israel, the Ottoman archives, and those of the Powers mention the Lebanon and its inhabitants for whom a special form of governance was "invented" (double qaimaqamate and later mutasarrifate). The nation of Lebanon was a direct successor of the Ottoman rule and and product of the national identity that was present long before the birth of the state. The same cannot be said about Israel which was only created in 1948, and before that the people of the region identified as Palestinians. Sadly the original inhabitants and their villages were supplanted by colons and colonies of migrants ... you know the rest of the this.
talkallam) 06:52, 7 January 2016 (UTC)[reply
]

Delete. There are only two entries in this page. (c.f.
partial title match. I have no comments on the other. No prejudice against a proper a redirection. Best regards, Codename Lisa (talk) 13:03, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply
]

Match outcome for similar Palestine item. Peterkingiron (talk) 16:57, 10 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

If this is closed before that one, should the closer understand that as "consensus for redirect/delete"? (my reading of the unclosed AfD) Widefox; talk 21:21, 10 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect, if anything, unambiguously (pun intended). Deletion is not in the air there. Debresser (talk) 22:29, 10 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

That was a question to Peterkingiron. Widefox; talk 23:25, 10 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

His answer was clear: as consensus there is. Consensus there is redirect. Further questions and whom they are addressed at is irrelevant. Nuf said. Debresser (talk) 06:34, 12 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
talk page or in a deletion review
). No further edits should be made to this page.