Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The CIA and September 11 (book)

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was keep.--Adam (talk) 22:06, 7 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The CIA and September 11 (book)

The book has only been published in German, and not in English. I think it needs to be translated and published in English, with the English-language version widely circulated before it meets

Verifiability and reliable sources to really know and verify what the book says. --Aude (talk | contribs) 03:03, 31 March 2006 (UTC)[reply
]

  • Comment I realy wish I hadn't listed the "not English" language issue in my comment eariler. I see that it has caused some consternation and was not my primary motivation. The book is simply not notable. It has not had a visible social or political effect that warrants separate attention. It is a valid part of the Von Bülow article or any number of conpiracy articles. I read plenty of books and watch plenty of movies that are in languages other than English, and would have no problem with many of them getting their own articles. But this looks more tabloid, yellow press quality to me. (Sorry, I forgot to sign this before Ande B 01:23, 1 April 2006 (UTC))[reply]
  • Delete MONGO 05:55, 31 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Merge because, quite honestly, we only need one article on
    Thatcher131 05:57, 31 March 2006 (UTC)[reply
    ]
  • Delete. Last time I checked, Wikipedia wasn't Amazon.de. --Calton | Talk 06:10, 31 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. Merge (see below) Relevant content will be referenced under the author; this does not warrant its own entry. Eusebeus 07:21, 31 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Very Strong Keep. A extremely notable book by an author with an apparently extensive political background. Language or cultural disparity is never a good reason for to delete an article if it has attained sufficient notability, there is a far-reaching precedent that individual books by notable authors get their own articles, and it's ridiculous to think no-one would want to see info on this. Besides, I would consider this to be more than just a stub now.
    masterka 09:03, 31 March 2006 (UTC)[reply
    ]
Frage: auf welchem Grund, behaupten Sie eine solche Bedeutung? Eusebeus 11:56, 31 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep Article has been much improved. --Mmx1 14:10, 7 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Usually, books with an ISBN-number and/or availability in a couple dozen of libraries and/or a Project Gutenberg type website, and with a notability above that of an average cookbook or programmers manual would qualify. --Striver 17:23, 1 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep sure looks notable to me. Barry Zuckerkorn 19:06, 1 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. the book has gotten attention somewhere in the world so we should be talking about it here. That's what we do. Is the nom suggesting that the whole world should speak English and if they don't we should ignore it? Frankly, I think that kind of thinking is dangerous for the spread of knowledge. Language was not a barrier to the exchange of ideas in the 18th century and I don't see why it should be in the 21st century. -- JJay 20:22, 1 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep, notable despite the language. feydey 23:26, 1 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Merge'. The article is well organized, and the organization takes up as much room as the content. It's a stub, notable or not. I'm not even sure the book is original. If it ever gets translated, it can be deconsolidated from related articles back into its own.--Pro-Lick 00:19, 2 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. Since when does something have to be in English to be notable? As for verifiability, there are plenty of German speaking Wikipedia editors who can do that. -- noosphere 22:06, 2 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Comment As far as I am concerned, translation into other languages is indicative of the extent of a book's influence. The more translations, the greater the distribution, influence, or interest. Without wide distribution then I would look to social or political consequences of the book and I just don't see much in the way of consequences for this particular book, regardless of its origins. YMMV. Ande B 21:52, 3 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I agree with the first two sentences of the above comment. Namely, that "translation into other languages is indicative of the extent of a book's influence" and "the more translations, the greater the distribution, influence, or interest." However, it does not follow that just because a book may not have been translated in to English, then the only criteria we can use to judge its notability is its "political consequences". It's not at all clear how one could judge the "political consequences" of a book in a NPOV way. It may be relatively clear in the case of some exceptions like
systemic bias and hampering legitimate research in to a given topic by English speaking individuals who may be interested in how that topic is percieved or interpreted in the rest of the non-English speaking world. Besides, the English language publishing industry is generally not interested in books in translation: only a miserably tiny fraction of foreign language books are ever translated in to English[5][6], likely for business reasons that may have little to do with their notability in the rest of the world. Why should Wikipedia defer to the English language publishing industry to the exclusion of the rest of the world, when we can rely on perfectly legitimate indicators of their notability elsewhere (such as their sales in other countries)? -- noosphere 01:01, 5 April 2006 (UTC)[reply
]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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