Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2012 December 5

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December 5

Category:People of the Roman Empire

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a deletion review
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The result of the discussion was: rename. There's not complete unanimity in formatting here, but we seem to be trending toward "(X) people" in all cases.--Mike Selinker (talk) 03:09, 31 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
PS I note that the proposed solution does not achieve the Utopian adjectival form. It is just a compound noun. How is a compound noun more virtuous that the current form? Laurel Lodged (talk) 22:38, 14 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:Place names of Kent origin in the United States

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The result of the discussion was: merge to Category:Place names of English origin in the United States. If that gets deleted, a bot can empty the category. I'm not going to listify this, but in case anyone feels strongly that it should happen, feel free to make it so. To make that task easier, here's the list of articles currently in the category: Dover, Delaware, Kent County, Delaware. Yep, all two of them. delldot ∇. 05:38, 2 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:Byzantine saints

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The result of the discussion was: keep. The Bushranger One ping only 19:31, 22 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: To harmonise with the proposal below and with Category:Saints of the Middle Ages. As below, the saints may have had many different nationalities but all were in the Empire. Laurel Lodged (talk) 21:29, 5 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Does John Pack Lambert have a doppleganger or a shadow? Or have we wandered into tag wrestling? Laurel Lodged (talk) 22:02, 5 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:Ancient Roman saints

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The result of the discussion was: keep. The Bushranger One ping only 19:32, 22 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: To harmonise with the parent category of Category:Christians in the Roman Empire. Some of the people may have been full Roman citizens, others colonials, others client states, others non citizen slaves. They may have come from many nationalities, but all were in the Empire. Also, "Ancient Roman" usually cognates from the foundation of Rome through to the fall of the western Empire. This category however is limited to the 1st to 4th centuries. Laurel Lodged (talk) 21:13, 5 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Query What nation is "Ancient Rome"? Is it just Rome and Latium? What about the Armenians, Egyptians and British? Are they also Roman nationals? Or are they just members of the Empire? If the cat is to do as it says on the tin, there all Greeks, Spanish, Armenians, Egyptians and British must be removed from the cat leaving only the "pure" Romans. On the oter hand, if the proposal is accepted, no such drastic cleanout is required as all are members of the Empire. Laurel Lodged (talk) 23:36, 5 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Ideally, you should have asked that question before you created Category:People of the Roman Empire, since we also have Category:Ancient Romans. The latter should be the parent, not a subcategory, which is opposite to how you set it up. In brief, the Roman Empire only represents part of the history of Ancient Rome. For a time it was a Kingdom, and for a time it was a Republic. Good Ol’factory (talk) 22:13, 6 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:Walt Disney Motion Pictures Group

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The result of the discussion was: rename to Category:Walt Disney Studios. The Bushranger One ping only 19:32, 22 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Renaming the category would connect it more cohesively with its respective article page:
Walt Disney Studios (production). ~ Jedi94 (talk) 21:07, 5 December 2012 (UTC)[reply
]
I agree to drop the "the". ~ Jedi94 (talk) 03:53, 6 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:Rychnov nad Kněžnou

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The result of the discussion was: delete. Good Ol’factory (talk) 04:12, 18 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Delete The corresponding article Rychnov nad Kněžnou is about a small town with 12,000 inhabitants so there's no real hope for expansion to a reasonable size category. Pichpich (talk) 20:55, 5 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:2 Broke Girls

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The result of the discussion was: Deleted by Floquenbeam as pure vandalism (with no prejudice against recreation on valid grounds). Pichpich (talk) 22:06, 5 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Delete Created by a vandal to categorize the hoax Fake Blood (song). There are currently two articles about the show: the main article and a list of episodes so there's no need for a category, at least not yet. Pichpich (talk) 20:49, 5 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • No idea how to close a CFD, but I've deleted this as vandalism. --Floquenbeam (talk) 21:03, 5 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    • I guess the category could be speedy deleted in a few days because it's now empty. But it is a notable show so there's a small chance that someone will make convincing argument for keeping the category. Pichpich (talk) 21:16, 5 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
      • I should have used a more accurate phrase: created by a vandalism-only account. You're right, I have no opinion on the actual validity of the category, but it was one of several pages created by a VOA, and so I just deleted them all. No problem if people decide this is a useful category and recreate. --Floquenbeam (talk) 21:20, 5 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:Major League Baseball players by national origin

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The result of the discussion was: keep. This does not preclude removal of specific articles from categories if users feel they are not appropriate, as in the case of someone who was born in Germany but does not seem to be really German. It also does not preclude creation of subcategories to deal with these cases if editors feel that's necessary. delldot ∇. 06:32, 2 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Delete/Upmerge/Rename. The category tree lists players merely by the country of birth regardless of their nationality or country of citizenship. Many players are/were U.S. citizens who happened to be born in a foreign country but did not grow up there, info deemed too trivial for WP categorizing. To ensure that players who are not American are listed by nationality (Category:Baseball players by nationality), a few mergers are also suggested. Mayumashu (talk) 20:34, 5 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
At the least, there needs to be a rename to Category:Major League Baseball players born in Foo, which is what is being described here. But I'm not supporting such a rename, given general WP categorizing with respect to place of birth Mayumashu (talk) 00:40, 7 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep -- ethnic origin of expatriates is always significant. "People from foo" categories exist widely in WP, and it is possible for people to have two or more of them, which may include on relating to place of birth. The alternative to some miniscule intersections is to upmerge, in this case to a sport category (possibly a general expatriate one) and to a more general one by origin. The answer to the service people serving overseas is to put them in a special category for that (not one realted specifically to the sport. Peterkingiron (talk) 18:56, 6 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    • Ethnic origins and "expatriateness" are not being described here. Most categories here, for countries where baseball is not played to any real extent, list Americans who were born abroad but grew up in the States; who, with respect to ethnicity or nationality, are American. And I suggest mergers for players who grew up in (are actually 'from') foreign countries, into subcategories of Category:Expatriates in the United States and Category:Baseball players by nationality. Mayumashu (talk) 00:51, 7 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
      • Actually ethnic origin, what this is, and expatriates are three different things. Expatriates are citizens of one country living in another. However there are two distinct groups on non-expatriate baseball players involved here. First, there is the group of baseball players who are US nationals born abroad. With the huge US military presence in Germany, Japan, Korea, the Philippines, and also significant presence in Spain and Italy and lots of other places since the end of WWII, and the size of the US diplomatic force, plus lots of Americans abroad for other reason in other places, there are lots of people who fall in this category. Then there is also a large number of people born in other countries to parents who are not US citizens, who immigrate to the US and become US citizens before they ever become MLB players. Ethnicity/ethnic origin is a totally different issue entirly and not at all under discussion here. I see no reason to seperate out the baseball players by nationality into specific leagues as this is being done. Do we have Category:Major league baseball players from the United States?John Pack Lambert (talk) 02:35, 7 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
That too - it is clear
WP:OC to do it by league (or single league organization, as MLB maintains two leagues). Mayumashu (talk) 00:44, 8 December 2012 (UTC)[reply
]
99% of players who have played for the Jays or Vancouver Canadians played minor league or major leage ball in the states too, so they are still expatriate baseball players in the U.S. Moreover, on a different point, there are definitely more than a few dozen Americans listed in these. All the ones I've suggested for deletion list Americans who happened to be born abroad. They are not 'from' the country in question in any meaningful way - they grew up playing baseball in the states, allowing them to become pro ball players later in life. Mayumashu (talk) 04:34, 11 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
To be correct about it, there are 50 categories in question but only about 17 that list non-American ball players - those for Aruba, Australia, the Bahamas, Brazil, Canada, Colombia, Cuba, Curacao, Dominican Republic, Japan, South Korea, Mexico, Nicaragua, Panama, Puerto Rico, Taiwan, U.S. Virgin Islands, and Venezuela. Again, there should be an expat baseball players in the U.S. category tree, as there is for basketball and soccer (whereas there isn't a cat tree like this one for any other sport). Players listed in most cases here are not "from" the country in question other than that they were born there, mostly either to U.S. citizens (military personnel mostly) or future immigrants to / naturalized citizens of the U.S. Mayumashu (talk) 04:48, 11 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:Edna Staebler Award honorees

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The result of the discussion was: delete. I hope I'm not stepping on any toes by assuming that the first two participants are will be ok with deleting given that
List_of_Edna_Staebler_Award_recipients exists and Awards categories are discouraged. delldot ∇. 06:00, 2 January 2013 (UTC)[reply
]
Nominator's rationale: The title introduces an unnecessary
engvar issue that could be overcome by having a similar title to other awards, e.g. Category:James Tait Black Memorial Prize recipients. 86.40.100.39 (talk) 19:30, 5 December 2012 (UTC)[reply
]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:Documentary films by music genre

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The result of the discussion was: merge. delldot ∇. 06:04, 2 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Procedural nomination User:Stefanomione, who should know better by now, seems to have emptied this category and placed a speedy deletion tag on it in favour of his preferred naming structure. I've removed the speedy tag and am taking this to Cfd instead. I hope there has not been more of this from this editor who, again, should really know better after having been the subject of an ANI for category edits.
talk) 18:51, 5 December 2012 (UTC)[reply
]
To be clear, there was no pending Cfd when Stefanomione did this; he saw it as a way of circumventing Cfd entirely.
talk) 20:44, 8 December 2012 (UTC)[reply
]
To be more precise, I thought it was one of my categories ... If it was, a speedy deletion should have been acceptable, I think. (For the history of this nomination: I created Category:Works by genre and a lot of its subcategories). Stefanomione (talk) 08:32, 9 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:Explorers of the colonial Southwest of North America

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The result of the discussion was: merge to Category:Explorers of North America. No objections to this suggestion, it seems to me from the arguments of people who did not explicitly support this that at least they would not hate it. delldot ∇. 06:13, 2 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:California colonial people

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The result of the discussion was: merge to Category:People of pre-statehood California. delldot ∇. 05:47, 2 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:People of pre-statehood West Virginia

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The result of the discussion was: no consensus. Although a lot of these discussions about whether to use the modern place name or the name of the place at the time in question are going the other way, I cannot see a consensus here to do away with this category. People are bringing up issues here that are unique to this discussion, like having consistency with a cat like this for each state. The opposes outnumber the merges, and their reasoning is logical. delldot ∇. 07:03, 2 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Place names of Berkshire origin in the United States

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The result of the discussion was: delete and merge the 3 articles into Category:Place names of English origin in the United States as I did with the Kent discussion above. If that category gets deleted, a bot can empty it. delldot ∇. 05:43, 2 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Ports and harbours by sea or ocean and Category:Port cities and towns by sea or ocean

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The result of the discussion was: do not merge. Good Ol’factory (talk) 04:09, 18 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Two categories may essentially repeat each other, unless there are ports that aren't cities. Brandmeistertalk 17:09, 5 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:United Kingdom political leader templates

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The result of the discussion was: speedy rename.--Mike Selinker (talk) 08:45, 8 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: This is what they all seem to be. 86.40.100.39 (talk) 08:38, 5 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Category:United Kingdom ministerial office templates > Category:United Kingdom ministerial office navigational boxes
Category:Yugoslavia political leader templates > Category:Yugoslavia political leader navigational boxes
Category:Turkey political leader templates > Category:Turkey political leader navigational boxes
Category:Slovenia political leader templates > Category:Slovenia political leader navigational boxes
Category:Serbia political leader templates > Category:Serbia political leader navigational boxes
Category:Russia and Soviet Union political leader templates > Category:Russia and Soviet Union political leader navigational boxes
Category:Poland political leader templates > Category:Poland political leader navigational boxes
Category:Norway political leader templates > Category:Norway political leader navigational boxes
Category:Netherlands political leader templates > Category:Netherlands political leader navigational boxes
Category:Lithuania political leader templates > Category:Lithuania political leader navigational boxes
Category:Italy political leader templates > Category:Italy political leader navigational boxes
Category:Germany political leader templates > Category:Germany political leader navigational boxes
Category:France political leader templates > Category:France political leader navigational boxes
Category:Estonia political leader templates > Category:Estonia political leader navigational boxes
Category:Czech Republic political leader templates > Category:Czech Republic political leader navigational boxes
Category:Croatia political leader templates > Category:Croatia political leader navigational boxes
Category:Bosnia and Herzegovina political leader templates > Category:Bosnia and Herzegovina political leader navigational boxes
Category:Estonia cabinet templates > Category:Estonia cabinet navigational boxes
Category:France subdivision political leader templates > Category:France subdivision political leader navigational boxes
Category:Italy subdivision political leader templates > Category:Italy subdivision political leader navigational boxes
  • (Extra S)
Category:Sweden political leaders navigational boxes > Category:Sweden political leader navigational boxes
Category:Spain political leaders navigational boxes > Category:Spain political leader navigational boxes
Category:Catalonia political leaders navigational boxes > Category:Catalonia political leader navigational boxes — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.40.100.39 (talk) 09:01, 5 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Category:Europe political leader templates > Category:Europe political leader navigational boxes — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.40.100.39 (talk) 09:13, 5 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:Interstate conflict

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The result of the discussion was: Closed. After this was nominated again on the 11th, I did some digging and found that this was discussion was apparently not listed on the category. So no action could really be taken. Vegaswikian (talk) 22:12, 11 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: It is not the sort of topic that lends itself to a category and the name is too broad to be used solely for US-related topics. I have not tagged the article. I cannot do so because I am subjected to a pathetic indefinite topic ban. -- Alan Liefting (talk - contribs) 02:36, 5 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per nominator. Too broad. --86.40.100.39 (talk) 09:44, 5 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Nobel Peace Prize templates

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The result of the discussion was: rename.--Mike Selinker (talk) 19:42, 30 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Per Category:Nobel Prize in Literature navigational boxes. 86.40.105.236 (talk) 00:49, 5 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Category:Nobel Prize in Chemistry templates > Category:Nobel Prize in Chemistry navigational boxes
Category:Nobel Memorial Prize in Economics templates > Category:Nobel Memorial Prize in Economics navigational boxes
Category:Nobel Prize in Physics templates > Category:Nobel Prize in Physics navigational boxes
Category:Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine templates > Category:Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine navigational boxes
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