Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2021 September 5

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September 5

Category:White savior films

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a deletion review
). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. bibliomaniac15 05:23, 19 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: What qualifies as a white savior film is subjective. Categories don't allow for nuisance or context. Everyone of these film articles should discuss the white savior trope in it, but provide context and all relevant viewpoints. I don't think putting it a category is at all helpful. JDDJS (talk to me • see what I've done) 23:50, 5 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. Not a defining category. Also splashed about far too casually as is on the articles - sourcing that a film was accused of being a white savior film by XYZ is handy, but it's not like there's an authoritative source on the matter, making it difficult to entangle one eccentric opinion from a general consensus that yes, this film invokes white savior tropes. To be a category, we'd need something more than "someone somewhere accused this of being a white savior film once". SnowFire (talk) 06:04, 6 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note: the current member pages are already listed in the main article with the exceptions of The Last Samurai, The Outsider (2018 film) and Up the Down Staircase. – Fayenatic London 21:05, 6 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. Very common trend in films to depict exceptional or heroic "white" characters. There are available sources on the topic, and this should be covered on both the main articles and on categories. An analysis of a film's themes and implications is more relevant real-world information than reviews by jaded film critics. Dimadick (talk) 21:06, 9 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • Categories need to be defining and have a clear inclusion criteria per
      WP:CATV. Whether a film won an Academy Award or not is objective. Whether a film is a classic, or a box office bomb, or is anti-fascist, or is pro-fascist, is inherently a matter of weighing critic's opinions (well, barring categories like literal Category:Nazi propaganda films, but that's an objective case too, who funded it and why). There's available sources on lots of elements of films that can be covered in prose but that aren't appropriate for categories, because they're subjective. SnowFire (talk) 06:14, 11 September 2021 (UTC)[reply
      ]
    • To echo what SnowFire is saying, this is not at all about not covering the topic of white savior narrative on the film articles. It should absolutely be talked about on the pages. But in the end, it's subjective whether or not the film is a white savior film. And categories cannot be subjective. JDDJS (talk to me • see what I've done) 15:56, 11 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per nom. --Just N. (talk) 15:48, 12 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. Incredibly subjective. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:55, 15 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a deletion review
). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Former Hindus by nationality

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a deletion review
). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge to
(non-admin closure) Asmodea Oaktree (talk) 12:53, 18 September 2021 (UTC)[reply
]
Nominator's rationale: merge, redundant category layer with only one subcategory. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:42, 5 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a deletion review
). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:High school football competitions in the United States

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2021 September 13#Category:High school football competitions in the United States

Category:Maskilim

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a deletion review
). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: rename to Category:People of the Haskalah. Consensus is that the category should remain, but that there may be accessibility issues with the current name. bibliomaniac15 05:23, 19 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: There is no article
Maskilim. Rathfelder (talk) 14:05, 5 September 2021 (UTC)[reply
]
Copy of discussion on Speedy page
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a deletion review
). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Western (genre) romantic films

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a deletion review
). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. bibliomaniac15 05:24, 19 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: As with adjectives like action, adventure and drama which have been addressed in earlier CFDs, romance is integral to the vast majority of Westerns. The genre cannot be artificially sub-divided just because, as with nearly all of this category's entries, there happens to be a female co-star. Additions to the category are bound to be subjective because many of the films listed only contain romance to the extent that the hero is married (as is the case with the films about Custer and his wife) or that he and the leading lady walk away hand in hand in the final scene. On the other hand, the category doesn't include numerous Westerns in which romantic sub-plots are key to the storyline –
She Wore A Yellow Ribbon, Rio Grande and The Magnificent Seven among many. No Great Shaker (talk) 10:24, 5 September 2021 (UTC)[reply
]
Comment. An upmerge is not practical in this case but, for due diligence, I'll work through the entries and ensure they are all included in other sub-categories of Category:Western (genre) films. No Great Shaker (talk) 13:04, 5 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
All checked and in other suitable categories. No Great Shaker (talk) 08:37, 8 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per nom. Lugnuts Fire Walk with Me 13:24, 6 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose The nomination is not particularly convincing. If there are films "in which romantic sub-plots are key to the storyline", then they are romance films by definition. Dimadick (talk) 21:12, 9 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The point is that romance is nearly always present in Westerns to the extent that, like Westerns with action and drama, it is futile and illogical to create a category because the films encompass two distinct genres. A category like War romance films is fine because it is unusual for a war film to include a romance but there are very, very few Westerns that do not. In some Westerns like Rio Grande, romance is a significant factor but usually it is a case of hero and heroine joining hands in the final scene. This makes the category impractical as a subjective view must be taken of how much romance is on show. If a Western contains a strong romantic element, it should be categorised as both a Western and a romance, the same applying if the film is primarily a romance that happens to be set in the Old West. No Great Shaker (talk) 12:36, 11 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Nomination amended. I've struck out the last sentence of my nomination because Dimadick has made a fair point and, on reflection, what is not in the category is irrelevant. Thanks. No Great Shaker (talk) 12:42, 11 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per nom. --Just N. (talk) 16:00, 12 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a deletion review
). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Jain monarchs

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a deletion review
). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: Reverse merge.
(non-admin closure) Asmodea Oaktree (talk) 12:55, 18 September 2021 (UTC)[reply
]
Nominator's rationale: merge or reverse merge, there have never been Jain monarchs outside the Indian subcontinent. Note that I have tagged both categories. Marcocapelle (talk) 08:39, 31 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, bibliomaniac15 05:07, 5 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Reverse merge for preference, implemented as indicated, Peterkingiron (talk) 16:52, 5 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Reverse merge for preference, implemented as indicated, --Just N. (talk) 16:01, 12 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a deletion review
). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Sports in New Iberia, Louisiana

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a deletion review
). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge to
WP:SMALLCAT. bibliomaniac15 05:25, 19 September 2021 (UTC)[reply
]
Nominator's rationale: Per SMALLCAT. Category contains two articles and two sub-categories. User:Namiba 10:49, 28 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose I count the two subcats not as '2' but correspondent to their number of elements. Besides, especially sports cats have enormous growth potential. So merge here seems not a good idea! --Just N. (talk) 19:26, 3 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, bibliomaniac15 05:03, 5 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
There hasn't been a notable professional sports team in New Iberia, LA since 1955. The town's population is only 28,000. If there is some surge to return pro sports to this small city in Louisiana, we can always recreate the category.--User:Namiba 14:28, 6 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Merge per nom. Growth potential seems to be very limited in this case. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:36, 7 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a deletion review
). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:COVID-19 monuments and memorials

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a deletion review
). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: rename to Category:COVID-19 pandemic monuments and memorials. bibliomaniac15 05:24, 19 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: The monuments are for the pandemic and its victims, as opposed to for the disease itself. BlackholeWA (talk) 11:10, 28 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, bibliomaniac15 05:02, 5 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support – Although the new name doesn't match the established category tree, it makes sense to refer to the pandemic, as some of the memorials are to aspects of the pandemic other than victims of the disease. MClay1 (talk) 01:12, 7 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Some of the memorials are to aspects of the pandemic other than victims of the disease, just as MClay1 pointed out. So the new name makes sense. --Just N. (talk) 16:06, 12 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per above and because several of these monuments have "pandemic" in their name, e.g. World Memorial to the Pandemic. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:46, 13 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a deletion review
). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Time travel anime and manga

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a deletion review
). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: rename to Category:Anime and manga about time travel. bibliomaniac15 05:25, 19 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: "Time travel" isn't really a genre but a plot element. See also: Category:Time travel in television. Link20XX (talk) 04:17, 5 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a deletion review
). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:RENFE Operadora multiple units

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a deletion review
). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: speedy rename. – Fayenatic London 20:02, 6 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: C2D after parent article renaming. Kraushaune (talk) 03:31, 4 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a deletion review
). No further edits should be made to this section.
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