Wikipedia:Copyright problems/2018 September 6

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6 September 2018

  • Hello,
    Michail. I cannot see the text at Google Books, which will make it somewhat difficult for me to help you, but I can tell you that there are several things I look for before I flag content as a backwardscopy. First question, which you've already asked, is "Does the external source clearly predate the use of the material here?" If yes, copypaste confirmed. What's left is determining the copyright status of the source. If it cannot be confirmed that the external source predates, it is sometimes difficult to exclude that the external source predates, as books may be compiled of papers or content previously published elsewhere. So in those cases I look to see whether the content entered Wikipedia as a paste by one person, with any modifications to the material creating greater dissimilarity between Wikipedia and the source. If so, copypaste is very likely. If not - if multiple people added the content in stages and the material evolved to grow more like the source, then backwardscopy is likely. The more clarity I can find around growing similarity or dissimilarity the better. Even though I can't see the text at the link you share for the source, I'll look at the article and see if I can share any further thoughts on this specific case. --Moonriddengirl (talk) 13:32, 6 January 2019 (UTC)[reply
    ]
Okay, so I have been able to access the book preview through an independent search. Perhaps the problem for me in the link was the difference in our base languages. For the benefit of others, the book is Historical Mechanisms: An Experimental Approach to Applying Scientific Theories to the Study of History by Andreas Boldt. It was published in 2017, as
Michail
noted.
I zero in on the following text to begin my review:
As it is in the book As it is in the article today with differences bolded
Greek-speaking communities of the Hellenised East were instrumental in the spread of early Christianity in the second and third centuries, and Christianity's early leaders and writers (notably St Paul) were mostly Greek-speaking, though generally not from Greece itself. The New Testament was written in Greek, and some of its sections (Corinthians, Thessalonians, Philippians, Revelation of St. John of Patmos) attest to the importance of churches in Greece in early Christianity. Nevertheless, much of Greece clung tenaciously to paganism, and ancient Greek religious practices were still in vogue in the late fourth century AD, when they were outlawed by the Roman emperor Theodosius I. The Roman Empire in the east, following the fall of the Empire in the west in the fifth century, is known as the Byzantine Empire and lasted until 1453. With its capital in Constantinople, its language and literary culture was Greek and its religion was predominantly Eastern Orthodox Christian. The Empire had several periods of strengths and weaknesses, losing and gaining territory. Overall Greece remained under its control. Greek-speaking communities of the Hellenised East were instrumental in the spread of early Christianity in the 2nd and 3rd centuries, and Christianity's early leaders and writers (notably St Paul) were mostly Greek-speaking, though generally not from Greece itself. The New Testament was written in Greek, and some of its sections (Corinthians, Thessalonians, Philippians, Revelation of St. John of Patmos) attest to the importance of churches in Greece in early Christianity. Nevertheless, much of Greece clung tenaciously to paganism, and ancient Greek religious practices were still in vogue in the late 4th century AD, when they were outlawed by the Roman emperor Theodosius I in 391–392. The last recorded Olympic games were held in 393, and many temples were destroyed or damaged in the century that followed. In Athens and rural areas, paganism is attested well into the 6th century AD and even later. The closure of the Neoplatonic Academy of Athens by the Emperor Justinian in 529 is considered by many to mark the end of antiquity, although there is evidence that the Academy continued its activities for some time after that.[60] Some remote areas such as the southeastern Peloponnese remained pagan until well into the 10th century AD. The Roman Empire in the east, following the fall of the Empire in the west in the 5th century, is conventionally known as the Byzantine Empire (but was simply called "Roman Empire" in its own time) and lasted until 1453. With its capital in Constantinople, its language and literary culture was Greek and its religion was predominantly Eastern Orthodox Christian. [final sentence not in current Wikipedia article]
Searching for the phrase "Greek-speaking communities of the Hellenized east," I find it entering the article in April 2012 by user DeCausa. There are similarities to the book and differences.
What entered the article then How it is in the book How it is in the current article
Greek-speaking communities of the hellenized East were instrumental in the spread of early Christianity in the 2nd and 3rd centuries, and Christianity's early leaders and writers were generally Greek-speaking. However, Greece itself had a tendency to cling on to paganism and was not one of the influential centers of early Christianity: in fact, some ancient Greek religious practices remained in vogue until the end of the 4th century. Greek-speaking communities of the Hellenised East were instrumental in the spread of early Christianity in the second and third centuries, and Christianity's early leaders and writers (notably St Paul) were mostly Greek-speaking, though generally not from Greece itself. The New Testament was written in Greek, and some of its sections (Corinthians, Thessalonians, Philippians, Revelation of St. John of Patmos) attest to the importance of churches in Greece in early Christianity. Nevertheless, much of Greece clung tenaciously to paganism, and ancient Greek religious practices were still in vogue in the late fourth century AD, when they were outlawed by the Roman emperor Theodosius I. Greek-speaking communities of the Hellenised East were instrumental in the spread of early Christianity in the 2nd and 3rd centuries, and Christianity's early leaders and writers (notably St Paul) were mostly Greek-speaking, though generally not from Greece itself. The New Testament was written in Greek, and some of its sections (Corinthians, Thessalonians, Philippians, Revelation of St. John of Patmos) attest to the importance of churches in Greece in early Christianity. Nevertheless, much of Greece clung tenaciously to paganism, and ancient Greek religious practices were still in vogue in the late fourth century AD, when they were outlawed by the Roman emperor Theodosius I in 391–392.
We can see clear signs that the content as added in 2012 evolved to be more like the book rather than less.
At the time that this passage was inserted in 2012, the article already contained quite a bit of content that appear both in the book and the later article. The paragraph above the insertion is present in both. The paragraph below the insertion is present in both.
Let's take a quick look at one sentence in both:
2012 Article 2017 book
After a period of confusion following Alexander's death, the Antigonid dynasty, descended from one of Alexander's generals, established its control over Macedon by 276 B.C., as well as hegemony over most of the Greek city-states After a period of confusion following Alexander's death, the Antigonid dynasty, descended from one of Alexander's generals, established its control over Macedon and most of the Greek City-States by 276 B.C.
This text entered our article - substantial similar to but different from the book - the same day, slightly earlier, by the same user: [1]. Over time, the phrase "as well as hegemony over most of the Greek city-states" was modified and incorporated earlier in the sentence. We see that change occur in 2015, here, as a copy-edit by Khirug. Khirug's copy-editing, of course, is reflected in the book.
Looking back to the original focus passage to see when and how content evolved, we note that the original text "However, Greece itself had a tendency to cling on to paganism" at some point evolved in our article to "Nevertheless, much of Greece clung tenaciously to paganism". The latter is what appears in the book.
  • "However, Greece itself had a tendency to cling on to paganism" loses its "However" in November 2013 (here)
  • The resultant "Greece itself had a tendency to cling on to paganism" was modified to "Greece remained largely pagan" in December 2014 (here), but was swiftly restored to reflect the source here, from which edit it emerged as "Nevertheless, Greece itself clung tenaciously to paganism."
  • "Nevertheless, Greece itself clung tenaciously to paganism" becomes "Nevertheless, much of Greece clung tenaciously to paganism" in 16 February 2015.
At this point, I believe there is more than enough evidence to reasonably conclude that the material evolved in Wikipedia gradually through the work of multiple editors over a period spanning multiple years. Since the book is visible only in preview and since its topic is not actually Greek history, but rather the investigation of how histories are written - sources chosen and excluded - it is entirely possible that this was an acknowledged copy of material from Wikipedia intended to review precisely that. Either way, we would need some additional evidence that this content was copied from that book or a proto-version of it to conclude that any of our content was copied from it, rather than the other way around.
I'll call this one resolved and tag the talk page,
Michail. :) --Moonriddengirl (talk) 15:02, 6 January 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
Oh, somebody (perhaps you?) already added the tag to the talk page. I've linked to this page as evidence. --Moonriddengirl (talk) 15:07, 6 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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