Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2007 June 20

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20 June 2007

The following is an archived debate of the deletion review of the article above. Please do not modify it.

I'm closing this: Richard Norton was assuming this article was about the child prodigy composer Alex Prior, but it was about some other Alex Prior that lives in Brisbane instead of London, and is seemingly a typical student. If anyone wants to create an article on the Alex Prior mentioned in the sources, go ahead. Mangojuicetalk 20:28, 20 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Alex Prior (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (restore|cache|AfD)

featured on BBC The World's Alex Gallafent has the story of 14-year-old prodigy Alex Prior who composed a ballet that's made it to the Russian stage. The work premiered this evening in Moscow. Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) 18:11, 20 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment I can't see the article for this A7 speedy as I'm not an admin and there was no cache but can you provide a link to the BBC article?
    Spartaz Humbug! 18:14, 20 June 2007 (UTC)[reply
    ]
    [1] & (from Richard) [2] The Novaya Opera in Moscow is actually the best opera in town. Undelete
    Spartaz Humbug! 18:21, 20 June 2007 (UTC)[reply
    ]
  • Endorse deletion
    Alexander Prior the content of that article was "Alexander Prior was born in Janurary 1993 and lives in Brisbane, Australia. He has recieved much credit from activities such as debating and music. He came second in the 2005 ASX Sharmarket challenge." --pgk 20:22, 20 June 2007 (UTC)[reply
    ]
The above is an archived debate of the deletion review of the article above. Please do not modify it.
The following is an archived debate of the deletion review of the article above. Please do not modify it.
Eugene Martin Ingram (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (restore|cache|AfD)

I'm DRV'ing my own action here, because I'm sure some will consider it controversial. However, over the course of a couple of days aggressively trimming down the article it became clear that the only reason this article exists is to disparage its subject. Unlike some G10 speedies, though, this was sourced - some people have done some very deep research to find unflattering details about this person's life in tangential mentions of minor news media. Ingram is a private investigator who works for the church of Scientology (note to closer: please beware of vote-stacking here), a former cop who was fired amidst some minor controversy over 25 years ago. There are a couple of sources covering that but there are no other sources about him, but some that mention him in passing. There is no substance to the article, no indication why anyone would want to read an article on this person, but plenty of unflattering information. So I deleted it per

WP:DYK (a really backwards decision in my view: if there's a BLP issue on the Main page of Wikipedia, we should take it down immediately until those issues are resolved). For my part, obviously, endorse. Mangojuicetalk 13:59, 20 June 2007 (UTC)[reply
]

  • How do you figure he's a public figure with respect to Scientology? Moreover, apart from that he is in some sources, why should we have an article on him? And I think it's disputable that this is a case where the sources were relevant to the main thrust of the article. Mangojuicetalk 17:55, 20 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Click on the "cache" link from the first line of this discussion. Mangojuicetalk 11:44, 21 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Thanks. Cool trick, by the way. --Calton | Talk 22:44, 21 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Endorse deletion. I wondered about this one myself but held back, I applaud Mangojuice's bold and IMO entirely correct action. Guy (Help!) 10:22, 21 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    Overturn BLP permits articles with sourced negative material if the material is relevant to the main thrust of the material, and it clearly is; this was a policeman, now private investigator, against whom a number of charges were brought; he was not convicted, but the material is based soundly on articles in major national sources, including several interviews granted by the subject himself--who apparently has no objection to the matter being widely discussed. In the absence of those interviews, it would have been different & BLP might have been relevant. BLP does not permit deletion of articles such as this, nor should it. BLP should be strict, but narrow. DGG 17:04, 21 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    Second opinion, struck bolding.
    GRBerry 17:16, 21 June 2007 (UTC)[reply
    ]
Sorry about that. But we do seem to be going in circles this week. (smile) DGG 22:16, 21 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Endorse deletion. I retract my suggestion that this could be borderline. Rap sheet disguised as a biography, and even some of the allegedly neutral material phrased in pejorative ways ("employed as a desk sergeant"?). --Calton | Talk 22:44, 21 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The above is an archived debate of the deletion review of the article above. Please do not modify it.
  • Translations.com – Current redirection endorsed – pgk 06:25, 26 June 2007 (UTC)[reply
    ]
The following is an archived debate of the deletion review of the article above. Please do not modify it.
Translations.com (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (restore|cache|AfD
)

I’m writing in reference to your deletion of Translations.com. Although a company owned by TransPerfect I believe it has significant scope and international influence to be justified as an individual entry. I was editing today to improve the NPOV and to introduce external links, citations and wikilinks so that the article's merit would be demonstrated. This company works with virtually all the Fortune 1000 and independently of the parent company, making its removal questionable. The speed at which business is growing globally means that the technologies, terminologies and influence of Translations.com is of significant public interest and therefore relevant for Wikipedia. I ask that you restore the pages and allow me some time to improve the NPOV to your standards? 217.204.103.106 12:36, 20 June 2007 (UTC) --217.204.103.106 12:36, 20 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  • Overturn and list at AfD from the cache I can see this was not a valid G11. It might have been a bit POV but it was not blatant advertising. -N 13:13, 20 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • I am now neutral. I think the article looks fine but the COI (including a IP who just deleted a big comment on this page) makes it look fishy. -N 14:33, 20 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
      • My comment now posted below, I had put it in the wrong place so deleted it. Like i said, Im still getting used to this site. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.204.103.106 (talkcontribs)
  • Endorse current redirect, noting in passing that both articles were substantially the work of
    single-purpose accounts. Unsurprisingly, given edits like this, the requesting IP resolves to TransPerfect, inc. Guy (Help!) 14:03, 20 June 2007 (UTC)[reply
    ]
  • Endorse myself. This was part of a major coordinate promotion campaign by two clearly affiliated users. [3][4][5][6][7]. Theoretically speaking, Christie and Excelsior deserve indefblocks as spam-only accounts. Any op who reads these words may feel free to do so if s/he agrees. -- Y not? 14:21, 20 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • My intention is not to compromise the integrity of Wikipedia, it is a genuine belief that the thousands of people who require information on technologies, terminologies, market developments and influential companies in the globalization and localization industries should have that information available to them. This is a cutting edge industry and Translations.com works with virtually all the Fortune 1000 companies who require these services, making it an important inclusion on Wikipedia. My intention was to link all articles, external inks, citations that are available on the subject to these sites, making them genuinely neutral. This is an interesting subject matter to me, and many others. I am new to Wikipedia and if the activity of extending the article to include more links has raised concerns then please inform me or direct me to a better means of doing this. I ask again that Translations.com be reinstated. Thanks, C — Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.204.103.106 (talkcontribs)
  • Endorse merge A redirect to an article which does not mention the subject is not a useful way of doing things; fortunately, that can be fixed by inserting a paragraph about this site in the article for the company that runs it. I think it's notable enough as article content. C, would this be acceptable? DGG 17:45, 20 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Endorse deletion, no independent reliable sources have written a feature length focus piece on this website, so it isnt notable. All I can find in Google News Archives are press releases and invester bulletins. I have added a few snippets of information on
    John Vandenberg 23:13, 20 June 2007 (UTC)[reply
    ]
The above is an archived debate of the deletion review of the article above. Please do not modify it.
The following is an archived debate of the deletion review of the article above. Please do not modify it.
ALF (programming language) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (restore|cache|AfD)


There was no concensus to delete; the nomination search for sources was quickly shown to have been lacking, SlimVirgin's rationale for deletion was "I've read elsewhere that people have been having trouble finding third-party sources for this" and user BPMullins and Jquarry both claimed that the only sources were by the language creator, which was contested without response. The reason I contested it was the paper "Logic Programming Tools for Advanced Internet Programming" in Logic Programming: Proceedings of the 1997 International Symposium was written by Paul Tarau, who is not listed as an author of ALF. Besides a general

John Vandenberg 06:45, 20 June 2007 (UTC)[reply
]

  • Overturn now, sources have been provided. Delete again if article is not cleaned up by DRV close. -N 13:19, 20 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment: Disagree with delete again statement. Recommend instead to Stub the article and clean it up when possible, without artificial timetables. SqlPac 13:59, 20 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong Overturn the deletion. The rationales for deletion were thoroughly refuted by several people who cited several
    Verifiable
    sources (which ideally will be included in the updated version of the article.) Those who voted to delete did not bother responding to those who contested their statements. Some indicated that they did not even bother checking the sources supplied, and made their decision based on the title, which seems wholly insufficient to delete an article. Based on the sources and the number of published works, ALF appears to be notable. Citations provided include works by:
And several others who are not the original language creators. SqlPac 13:56, 20 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Overturn - is this a joke? It's well known in academic circles. By the way, I remember it from my comparative languages class at Tech which is why I was so shocked to see it here. It's definitely an encyclopedic topic. --BigDT 15:28, 20 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I originally closed this as delete, and then after a while I changed my interpertation to no consensus. I am reopening this to allow this DRV to run its full length to allow for addition comments regarding this closure of afd per request. Yamamoto Ichiro (山本一郎)(会話) 18:17, 20 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Overturn deletion. The arguments for keep were cogent and those for delete were weak (and incorrect). Even if all statements were weighted equally, there was no consensus. Notability is established in the article and sources given. Clearly the article can be improved (by giving a non-technical introduction) but the article is not particularly weak. Thank you for undeleting temporarily (so I could see the article!) and I realise that it may be difficult to assess what is inevitably a technical article. Thincat 10:05, 21 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Endorse deletion - The article is sourced to the creator of the language, 90% of the sources in the google scholar search results posted by editors in the AFD are either authored by Hanus (the creator), co-authored or edited by him. After filtering through the remaining ones, most references to ALF are 'an example of such' complete with a list or are written by the authors Hanus worked with on the project or on books about it in the past.
  • A single brief mention as an example of that type of language does not make a notable language. Also, to BigDT - why would it have been a joke? It had gone via AFD and there is a 66% majority in favour of deletion (which would be a supermajority, but not necessarily a consensus). As the keep comments, in my view don't actually manage to show notability, I would say it was a good decision to delete.-Localzuk(talk) 12:13, 21 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment 83% in favour of overturning deletion consistutes a superdupermajority. SqlPac 17:48, 21 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • I think it's a joke because of exactly what Tony said below - this is the kind of thing I would expect to be discussed in an encyclopedia. I learned about this language at Tech. Things that you learn about in school are kinda sorta the things you think would expect to find in a reference material that holds itself out as containing the sum of human knowledge. Garage bands from Singapore that have a MySpace page and got a write-up in their local newspaper once or twice we can do with out. But articles on academic subjects ought to be in here. --BigDT 22:43, 21 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
      • You are missing the point - there was an AFD, so why would you talk about 'is this a joke'? Procedure was followed, so it isn't a joke. My point is that you should stick to your reasoning rather than making hyperbolic comments such as those - otherwise you are simply being offensive to those who disagree with your viewpoint.-Localzuk(talk) 13:33, 24 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Overturn. There seems to be enough sources to justify article. Loom91 14:01, 21 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Overturn if it's the Alf discussed here: http://www.informatik.uni-kiel.de/~mh/systems/ALF.html
    This is the kind of thing I'd expect to be discussed in an encyclopedia. --Tony Sidaway 19:36, 21 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. It is right to bear in mind the self-publishing caution at
    WP:V#Self-published sources (online and paper) but when someone creates a programming language it is not unreasonable to take the creator's papers as being reliable about the nature of the language itself. This in itself does not establish notability. If the creator and his colleagues are the only people to use ALF, the topic may well not be notable. So, seeing as the matter has been challenged, I have added to the article a reliable third party reference to the fact of the language's (notable) existence and use. The many citations of Hamus' publications about ALF also establish notability though I do not think it helps the article to quote these. Example applications using ALF, and a non-technical introduction, would help the article (in my view). Thincat 13:11, 22 June 2007 (UTC)[reply
    ]
    If "notability" standards tell us that this language isn't to be included in the encyclopedia, the standards are unreliable in this case and should be ignored. Most likely they were compiled by people who have little experience with this subject. A bit of common sense goes a long way. As this is an academic programming language, asking for example applications is missing the point somewhat. --Tony Sidaway 07:48, 23 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - The article did not have the delrev template posted on it and as such some people may not have known this discussion is occurring. I have posted it now. I'm posting this comment so that whoever closes the DRV can take this into account when considering how long it has ran/-Localzuk(talk) 19:37, 24 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - Also for whoever closes this review: The AfD did not reach consensus, as pointed out by the person who deleted the article after AfD and Localzuk during this discussion. SqlPac 03:01, 25 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The above is an archived debate of the deletion review of the article above. Please do not modify it.
  • desat 08:03, 26 June 2007 (UTC)[reply
    ]
The following is an archived debate of the deletion review of the article above. Please do not modify it.
Image:Stephen Myron Schwebel.jpg (edit | [[Talk:Image:Stephen Myron Schwebel.jpg|talk]] | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (restore|cache|AfD)

Image was deleted with reason: "Replaceable fair use to be decided after 6 June 2007". I'm motioning an overturn because although this photograph is courtesy Max Koot, it has been cleared for free publishing on the web. It took me about an hour to wade through all information available regarding upload instructions and licences, however did not know there was such a thing as DRV. I hope we can resolve this manner without too much bloodshed, since if you'd really want to play hardball, you'd have to consider removing a lot more honourable photographs than just this one. ExpendableAsset 00:50, 20 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Why don't you focus your energy on providing replacements instead of deleting material that is technically replaceable but never gets replaced? - Mgm|(talk) 08:00, 20 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Do I criticize you for the cleanup tasks you choose to do? A
backlog exists, and I take care of it. Also, please note the thousands of free images I contribute. – Quadell (talk) (random) 10:30, 20 June 2007 (UTC)[reply
]
It is not the responsibility of the deleting admin to carry a camera around the world in hopes of catching a glimpse of every individual whose non-free image they delete. It is the responsibility of the uploader to provide only images which meet Wikipedia's policies. Endorse deletion. Corvus cornix 16:51, 20 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
      • If we don't delete the replaceable images, they never will be replaced. If we are willing to use a promo photo that is unlicensed or which is given to us under a restrictive license, then nobody is ever going to give us a freely licensed one. Think about it - for an article on "Bob", Bob's company has a vested interest in having the article look as nice as possible. So they have an interest in giving us a photo under whatever terms we ask, but they certainly aren't going to give us a less restrictive photo if we are willing to take a restrictive one. Are we going to get one in every case? No, but we will get them in a lot of cases. --BigDT 15:12, 20 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Endorse deletion. I really don't like the policy that images that might theoretically be replaceable with a free image must be deleted, but consensus is against me there, and this is definitely plausibly replacable. And sorry, but we have more restrictions on what can be considered a free image than just permission to freely publish on the Internet. -Amarkov moo! 02:57, 20 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Endorse - Wikipedia does not accept images of living people that are unlicensed or available only on a restrictive license. --BigDT 05:29, 20 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Endorse The deletion was in accordance with policy and aims of Wikipedia. nadav (talk) 07:24, 20 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Endorse. As the subject of the picture is alive, and the only purpose of the image is to show what he looks like, standard WP practice is to presume that the image is reasonably replacable. Without an argument against that, I can't see challenging the deletion. ExpendableAsset: yes, there are probably lots more pictures that violate the policy, and they should all be deleted too, and we're working on it. Mangojuicetalk 17:41, 20 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The above is an archived debate of the deletion review of the article above. Please do not modify it.