Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Black-shouldered kite/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Sarastro1 via FACBot (talk) 21:41, 15 January 2018 [1].

Black-shouldered kite

Nominator(s): Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 03:54, 31 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

This article on another Australian raptor is comprehensive and should be within striking distance of FA-hood. Have at it. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 03:54, 31 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

image review

  • File:Elanus_axillaris_distribution.svg: what is the source for the data presented in this map? Nikkimaria (talk) 14:44, 31 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
oops, added now. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 03:07, 2 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

From FunkMonk

  • I'll review this soon. First, the images seem a bit samey, not that we have many alternatives, but here's a head-shot[2], and a photo of some kind of aerial battle.[3] Perhaps this art[4] could be useful for spice under taxonomy. FunkMonk (talk) 22:13, 1 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
the eyes of the head-shot one are too pale (overexposure?) and misleading. Added teh Gould illustration. Will check the other Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 12:32, 2 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Why no separate status section, as in practically all other FAs?
added now. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 12:27, 2 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • "meaning "armpit"" Why?
rationale for name added Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 13:00, 4 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Seems the image of the immature would fit better under description, where its differences are mentioned?
moved now. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 13:00, 4 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • You only present some people mentioned under taxonomy and not others.
aligned them now. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 13:01, 4 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • "described Elanus notatus" What does it mean?
clarified now. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 13:12, 4 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • "distinguish it from the Eurasian E. caeruleus and American E. leucurus" Why no links or common names?
added now. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 13:12, 4 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • You give scientific names after common names for some species mentioned, but not others.
added now. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 13:12, 4 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Are the mice this bird eats an introduced species? if so, may be interesting to note as one of the things that have benefited the bird after human colonization.
  • Oh, I see this was mentioned in the intro (which I always read last) that the mouse was introduced, could be mentioned in the article body.
added now. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 13:12, 4 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • You use both ise and ize in the article.
all should be '-ise' now. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 13:12, 4 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
You still have a section named "Vocalizations". FunkMonk (talk) 15:28, 4 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
fixed now - I was cntrl-f "ize". Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 19:38, 4 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • You could mention the eye markings in the intro.
added now. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 13:12, 4 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Sources review

  • When the publisher location is London, you don't need to add "United Kingdom" or "UK" (6 and 24)
For completeness and aligning with other locations...not sure if London, Ontario has any publishers...? Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 03:02, 2 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I think "London" is assumed to be UK unless otherwise stated – as per your refs 2, 4 and 8 for example. Brianboulton (talk) 15:38, 2 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
removed now. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 20:21, 2 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Ref 26 lacks a publisher location
added Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 03:02, 2 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Ref 38 is a self-published work.
    WP:RSSELF
    allows this "when its author is an established expert whose work in the relevant field has been published by reliable third-party publications." Can you confirm that this is the case?
Aah, that is Gordon Beruldsen, whose bird egg book is/was widely referenced. Yes he is an authority Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 03:02, 2 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Otherwise sources look in good order and of appropriate quality and reliability. Brianboulton (talk) 22:45, 1 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Support Comments from Aa77zz

Taxonomy

  • "The black-shouldered kite was first described by English ornithologist John Latham in 1801, as Falco axillaris." Why cite the book review by Penhallurick?
I was looking for a place where someone debunked Mathews' rejecting axillaris, but found the original so ref is unneeded. Now removed. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 23:52, 3 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Perhaps mention that the species is monotypic - no recognised regional variation.
added Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 23:52, 3 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Description

  • "The leading edge of the inner wing is black." From photos it seems that it is the leading edge of the outer wing that is black.
not sure where that came from, but yes should be "outer" and changed Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 08:53, 5 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Vocalisation

  • "The call has been confused with that of a silver gull.[26]" Surprising, compare here and here. Do other sources mention this?
no, and given the dissimilarity best I think to just drop this sentence Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 13:14, 4 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Breeding

  • For the black-winged kite the eggs are laid at 2 to 3 day intervals and hatch asynchronously. Is this info available for the black-shouldered kite?
intervals added. no info on asynchronous hatching found Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 09:10, 5 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

References

  • 33 Chan, Melinda - This doesn't appear suitable as a RS - it seems to be a blog by YC Wee (the images are credited to Chan Yoke Meng)
replaced with HANZAB page- was also the wrong species. Must have overlooked that one. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 08:58, 5 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Aa77zz (talk) 11:18, 3 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

  • Perhaps the lead should mention the related letter-winged kite that also occurs in Australia and say how the two species differ. - Aa77zz (talk) 20:58, 4 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
added Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 09:12, 5 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

All good. Supported above. Another excellent article. - Aa77zz (talk) 10:34, 5 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from SchroCat

A nice article on a subject about which I have no prior knowledge. I'm heavily leaning to support, but three points caught my eye, none of which are much to worry about:

Lead
  • You tell us twice in the opening three sentences that the bird "is a small raptor".
yikes - removed second one Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 23:57, 3 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Description
  • "bright- or dull yellow". As "bright-" is hyphenated, shouldn't dull also be? (or should bright not be hyphenated?)
removed hyphen Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 23:57, 3 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Distribution
  • "Australian kites may be sedentary or nomadic, and generally occur in open grasslands": I'm not sure "occur" is the right word (unless that's the standard in ornithology). "Live" or "are found" or similar seems more natural – although don't push the point if there is a good reason for "occur".
tweaked Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 23:57, 3 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Cheers – SchroCat (talk) 11:47, 3 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support Lovely - nice piece of work. As a non-specialist I support on prose, with my usual cop out (stolen from Dank, of course!) Cheers - SchroCat (talk) 07:49, 4 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Support Edwininlondon

Nice work. Again. Very little to quibble with, not being an expert in birds:

  • However, Schodde and Mason -> when was this?
1980, added now. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 23:59, 3 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Vocalizations: any sound files available?
none on commons sadly Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 23:59, 3 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • almost exclusively on mice ... and other mouse-sized mammals account for over 90% of its diet -> these 2 statements do not quite work for me. Almost exclusively suggests 90+ % mice, not also including other mammals. I think almost exclusively is too strong
actually the point is a tad labored - removed the offending segment with no loss to meaning. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 00:00, 4 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • When hunting the kite -> a comma perhaps?
added now. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 23:59, 3 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

That's all. I might be able to do a source spot check tomorrow. Edwininlondon (talk) 22:05, 3 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Edwininlondon: that'd be great. Amazingly this FAC has rocketed along after my last two moved very slowly.....cheers Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 21:22, 5 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

OK, here are my results:

  • all I spotchecked (ref #2 #3 £6 #23a #23b #23l) all check out fine
  • London: Leigh & Sotheby is once without and once with initials
  • ref #6c is ok but should include page 202
  • Lerner, Heather R. L. -> here a space between initials but elsewhere not, e.g. Kirwan, G.M. I prefer a space, but don't mind either way
  • #10 seems to be the only book with a title in lowercase
  • #15 doi link doesn't work, maybe the doi is wrong?
  • #18 (and others): there is no Higgins 1993, only a Marchant & Higgins 1993, as far as I can see
  • would be good to use archive links for sources that may move/disappear

Edwininlondon (talk) 17:23, 6 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

ok, the doi is here, and cutting and pasting this doi back into article doesn't work. No idea why Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 20:44, 6 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
others all done apart from archiving webpages - just reading about it now Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 20:54, 6 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Weird one that doi. Overall a fine piece, which I hope to see on the main page one day. My support, with caveat of not being expert in birds. Edwininlondon (talk) 14:14, 7 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Closing comment: Some images have alt text, others do not. For consistency it should be one or the other but this is not an issue over which it is worth delaying promotion. Sarastro (talk) 21:41, 15 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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