Wikipedia:Featured article review/Boshin War/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article review. Please do not modify it. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page or at Wikipedia talk:Featured article review. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was kept by Nikkimaria via FACBot (talk) 9:02, 12 September 2020 (UTC) [1].

Boshin War

Notified: Per Honor et Gloria, Monocrat, Enkyo2, Victuallers, Ernstkohl, Curly Turkey, WP Japan, WP MILHIST

Review section

This article has a long-standing lack of citations for significant portions. -- Beland (talk) 19:50, 29 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Month-old talk page notification got no bites: [2] SandyGeorgia (Talk) 21:34, 29 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delist under
    Wikipedia: V for lack of citations. It would take a lot of work to fix this, and the original nominator from back in 2006 has long since retired. ErinRC (talk) 21:56, 5 March 2020 (UTC)[reply
    ]
  • WP:FAR regarding the purpose of the first phase of FAR; "Keep or Delist are not declared in the FAR phase". SandyGeorgia (Talk) 22:44, 5 March 2020 (UTC)[reply
    ]
  • @SandyGeorgia: I'm seeing a contradiction in the FAR guidelines here. It does indeed say what you cite it as saying, but immediately below it also makes the apparently contradictory statement that The featured article removal coordinators [...] determine either that there is consensus to close during this second stage, or that there is insufficient consensus to do so and so therefore the nomination should be moved to the third stage. I am not sure if there is a substantial difference, from the point of view of finding consensus in community discussions, between saying "I think this would take an inordinate amount of work to bring up to FA standard, and the only reason it is currently listed is because it was originally nominated back in the bad old days when we had no standards" and saying "Delist I think this would take an inordinate amount of work to bring up to FA standard, and the only reason it is currently listed is because it was originally nominated back in the bad old days when we had no standards". Is it possible the guideline you are quoting was written to apply to reviews of more recent FAs, where the notable gap between the standards of 2006 and the standards of 2020 is not also in play? Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 03:08, 9 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • The spirit of the thing is that, during FAR, we specify the problems and hope someone will address them. A Your "delist" in the FAR phase won't get the article delisted. Keep can happen without moving to FARC, but Delist cannot happen until/unless the article moves to FARC. In other words, unless the article is improved, you have one has to come back during the FARC phase to enter a Delist. No need to ping me, I have the FAR watchlisted. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 03:27, 9 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
To be clear, I was asking a hypothetical about an apparent contradiction in the instructions; I'm not the same editor who already cast a "delist" !vote. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 03:31, 9 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I don't see a contradiction, but perhaps that could be taken up at
WT:FAR rather than here. FAR is for listing things to be improved: one can say, "I don't think this article can be improved during a FAR", and then come back during FARC to !vote "Delist", if the article moves to FARC. (If you want, you can move this whole thing, my responses included, to WT:FAR.) Regards, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 03:55, 9 March 2020 (UTC)[reply
]

FARC section

Issues raised in the review section mostly relate to sourcing. Nikkimaria (talk) 18:05, 14 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delist. Tagged for citations for over a year. One statement tagged as dubious since January. DrKay (talk) 09:26, 15 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • @
      Join WP Japan! 00:43, 18 March 2020 (UTC)[reply
      ]
      1. Why is the Japanese date of February 8 equivalent to March 1 in the Western calendar and are the dates in the article Japanese or Western?
      2. What does it mean to "invest" a Castle?
      3. Was Goryōkaku defended by 800 remaining men or besieged by 800 men?
      4. If Enomoto was determined to fight to the end, why did he send his code books to his opponent?
      • Trivial points that I've left because I don't like the alternatives personally: Parkes' should be Parkes's according to
        MOS:SEASON. The quote marks within the quote marks of " 'as his equal in point of blood'." are probably unnecessary. I recommend: "as his equal in point of blood". DrKay (talk) 16:35, 3 May 2020 (UTC)[reply
        ]
  • Hold off on making a decision. The MilHist project was not notified of this discussion, and they are very active and have many experts who can help. I have notified them now, and made a list of sourcing issues needing addressing. Please see
    Join WP Japan! 00:43, 18 March 2020 (UTC)[reply
    ]
  • @
    Join WP Japan! 00:56, 18 March 2020 (UTC)[reply
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  • @
    Join WP Japan! 01:34, 18 March 2020 (UTC)[reply
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  • No problem. I did it out of courtesy. I have 18k pages on my watchlist, so sometimes pages I'm watching get lost in the shuffle. ···
    Join WP Japan! 01:59, 18 March 2020 (UTC)[reply
    ]
Nihonjoe is still waiting for books, and will need an extended delay. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 20:51, 10 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Nihonjoe: any update? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 23:56, 25 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I haven't received all of the books yet. No idea why, though. They haven't yet shipped. ···
Join WP Japan! 02:27, 27 April 2020 (UTC)[reply
]
I've addressed all of the items marked with "citation needed". Any others need work? ···
Join WP Japan! 19:30, 1 May 2020 (UTC)[reply
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Awesome, Nihonjoe; I will look this weekend when I have time. Perhaps DrKay will revisit as well. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 19:42, 1 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Are you still planning to look over things, SandyGeorgia, or have all the concerns been addressed? ···
Join WP Japan! 18:09, 11 May 2020 (UTC)[reply
]
@
Join WP Japan! 03:03, 23 May 2020 (UTC)[reply
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My apologies for the long delay, Nihonjoe; I have added a few cn tags. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 19:23, 30 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I've added citations for all of those. ···
Join WP Japan! 20:36, 2 June 2020 (UTC)[reply
]
Source review
  • Please make sure that the books cited are sorted alphabetically
  • Be consistent in whether you use cite templates for books
  • For easier verification, give inline page indications for journal articles with long page ranges. In particular Ravina 2010.
  • What is the rationale behind embedding long quotations in the footnotes?

I may return to have a look at the prose. Eisfbnore (会話) 05:17, 18 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Also, the corresponding Portuguese article pt:Guerra Boshin is an FA, but was formerly demoted, before being promoted again last year. Most of the discussion was about spelling and Aportuguesamento, yet some parts of that review might be of interest. Their article is also quite well-shaped and handsome, I have to say. FWIW Eisfbnore (会話) 06:09, 18 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Eisfbnore: Answering in order:
  1. They are in alphabetical order by author surname (which is standard).
  2. All of them use one of the citation templates.
  3. I don't have access to the Ravina article. Are there any others that need this?
  4. To provide context, I assume.
Thanks! ···
Join WP Japan! 18:09, 11 May 2020 (UTC)[reply
]

Okay to Keep, @DrKay: SandyGeorgia (Talk) 23:41, 14 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Nihonjoe: I've added a couple more cn tags. I also note that the formatting of citations and references is quite inconsistent - some cleanup needed there before this can be kept. Nikkimaria (talk) 14:57, 4 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@
Join WP Japan! 03:46, 5 July 2020 (UTC)[reply
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@
Join WP Japan! 01:06, 20 August 2020 (UTC)[reply
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I'm working on clearing up the citations that need page numbers. I'm not sure what to do about the ones that vaguely reference a museum exhibit (it's tagged for clarification). I'm fine with museum exhibits being cited, but there needs to be a date at least, and perhaps an archived link to their website or to a pamphlet or book from the exhibit. I'm waiting on a couple more books to arrive in order to fix the Keene reference and improve refs (perhaps even replace the museum refs). ···
Join WP Japan! 23:19, 20 August 2020 (UTC)[reply
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I've updated the Keene reference that was missing page numbers, as well as the Evans and Peattie ref missing page numbers. Waiting on a
Join WP Japan! 23:18, 3 September 2020 (UTC)[reply
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I now have copies of the Polak reference, but it's in Japanese and French, so it will take me a few days to review them and find the pieces of information that need the page numbers. Outside of that, are there any other things that need to be fixed in this article? ···
Join WP Japan! 22:07, 9 September 2020 (UTC)[reply
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I replaced one Polak reference with a couple others. There is still one of the Polak references that I can't find in the pages sent to me. I'm trying to find any other source that says that. ···
Join WP Japan! 17:23, 10 September 2020 (UTC)[reply
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Outside of the "Ryozen Museum of History exhibit", all of the refs have been fixed and updated now. I can probably find refs to replace the five places this museum exhibit is used. We'll see. ···
Join WP Japan! 17:48, 11 September 2020 (UTC)[reply
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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