Wikipedia:Featured article review/History of Arsenal F.C. (1886–1966)/archive1

Add links
Source: Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
The following is an archived discussion of a featured article review. Please do not modify it. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page or at Wikipedia talk:Featured article review. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was kept by Nikkimaria via FACBot (talk) 4:38, 14 November 2021 (UTC) [1].

History of Arsenal F.C. (1886–1966)

Notified: Qwghlm, WP Football, WP History, WP London, noticed in December 2020

This older FA has uncited text sprinkled throughout, including wording like "slick and technically proficient" and "dominance of the decade" that certainly need sources to support such wording. I'm also concerned that phrasing such as "false dawn", "Arsenal's pain", and similar phrasing may not be fully encyclopedic tone. There's also what appears to be an unreliable source used (tagged in the article). Hog Farm Talk 02:12, 27 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

As Qwghlm is long gone, I'm happy to take a look at this one...... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 10:07, 28 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Hog Farm: - how's it looking now.......? -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 17:22, 30 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Will try to give this another look tomorrow. Hog Farm Talk 03:31, 31 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "which has fuelled the long-standing enmity between the two North London clubs" - Is the second club Tottenham? It's not entirely clear
  • "Arsenal performed strongly in a free-scoring title race with Aston Villa, recording several heavy wins (including 7–1 against Blackpool, 7–2 against Leicester City, and 9–1 against Grimsby Town, which remains a club record for the top flight). Arsenal won the title with two games to spare and finished the season having scored 127 league goals (another club record), though Aston Villa managed to score 128, which is still a record for the most goals in an English top flight season." - citation needed
  • "With these new signings, Allison oversaw the completion of a hat-trick of League titles in 1934–35, and Arsenal were back to their attacking best; Drake scored a club record 42 league goals that season and Arsenal racked up a series of heavily one-sided scorelines reminiscent of the 1930–31 season (including 7–0 against Wolves, 8–1 against Liverpool, and 8–0 twice, against Leicester City and Middlesbrough)." - Not sure that this is covered by the note at the end of the paragraph, which is about a different subject
  • " Participation in the London League led to their expulsion from The Football League in 1941 along with 14 other clubs; it was not until April 1942 when they were readmitted after expressing regret and paying a £10 fine." - why was participation in the London League problematic?
  • "Although Arsenal were unable to sustain any challenges for the League title, with the new blood they won the FA Cup in 1949–50, with Reg Lewis scoring both goals in a 2–0 win over Liverpool in the final." - citation needed
  • " and a fixture pile-up" - what is a fixture pile-up?
    • @Hog Farm: - basically it means that a lot of games had to be played in a short period, usually because they had been postponed earlier in the season and therefore all "piled up" at the end of the season. I'll try to think of a way to re-word that part..... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 12:17, 1 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "with the numerical advantage in their favour, Newcastle won 1–0 with a goal from George Robledo." - citation needed
  • "To make matters worse for the club, rivals Tottenham Hotspur won the Double in 1960–61." - citation needed
  • "In mitigation, that same night the 1966 European Cup Winners' Cup final between Borussia Dortmund and Liverpool was screened live on television, a comparatively rare and prestigious event for the time, while the Arsenal v Leeds United match had no bearing on either team's fortunes, which partly accounts for the low attendance." - will need a citation due to the nature of the claims in this
  • "Andy Kelly's Arsenal Resource Website" - is this a RS source, or just a no-name personal blog?
  • ""Remembering the Arsenal Players that died during WW2". shewore.com. Retrieved 15 February 2020." - the about page for this sources does not give me any confidence as to this being a RS

Good progress made so far, ChrisTheDude. Hog Farm Talk 23:05, 31 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Hog Farm: - all the above points now addressed, I think -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 17:27, 6 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Had a conference this weekend, will give this another look hopefully tomorrow. Hog Farm Talk 04:00, 7 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Close without FARC, my concerns here have been addressed. Hog Farm Talk 22:39, 7 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
ChrisTheDude could you please remove the “done” templates? They are not used at FAC or FAR because they cause template limits to be exceeded, which wipes out part of the FAC page or FAC archives. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 22:11, 7 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Apologies :-( -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 08:47, 8 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Some of the references use manual short citations, while others use sfns that link to the Works cited, resulting in a) two citations styles, and b) almost every source in the Works cited returning a harvref error, since nothing links to them. This can be fixed by implementing a consistent sfn style, as is done on part of the citations.
  • WP:AT
    , article titles, which should not use the word the.
  • MOS:CURRENT
    , avoid words like now     … the sentence in the lead that uses “now southeast London” can be made more precise by saying something like “and southeast London since year xxxx”.
  • For “They were promoted to the First Division in 1904 but financial problems meant they were liquidated and reformed”, meant they were is awkward, I suggest instead something like “They were promoted to the First Division in 1904, but after incurring financial problems, they were liquidated and reformed in year xxxx”.
  • appointment of Herbert Chapman … as what … ? … in the lead. Also, that is a very long (run-on?) sentence.
  • What is “mid-table” ?? I gather from the context that it is not a good thing, but can’t get beyond that.
    @SandyGeorgia: - I changed it to "they were consistently finishing around the middle of the league table", do you think that is clearer to non-experts? Basically it means that they regularly were finishing in the region of 11th, 12th or 13th out of 22 teams in the league rather than 1st, 2nd or 3rd...... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 08:51, 8 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    Ah ha ! Yes, that does it … I was wrong in guessing what it meant. Will continue reviewing later today, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 14:39, 8 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • “Bertie Mee, who would go on to turn around the club's fortunes” … who turned around the club’s fortunes … more direct ?
  • See
    MOS:DATERANGE
    . There is inconsistent year styles in the section headings:
    Early years (1886–1910)
    Move to Highbury and the promotion controversy (1910–25)
    The Chapman era (1925–34)
    A hat-trick of League titles (1934–39)
    The Second World War (1939–45)
    The post-war years (1945–66)
    Correcting for both
    MOS:DATERANGE
    would yield:
  • Early years (1886–1910)
    Move to Highbury and the promotion controversy (1910–1925)
    Chapman era (1925–1934)
    Hat-trick of League titles (1934–1939)
    Second World War (1939–1945)
    Post-war years (1945–1966)

Also, should it be … “During the Second World War”? ChristheDude, thank you for all the work on this; if you don’t have time for some of these minor issues, I could chip away at them as I find time … let me know. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 01:14, 8 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@SandyGeorgia: - all done (I think) with the exception of specifying when Woolwich was absorbed into London, which is proving unexpectedly hard to confirm. I'll carry on looking into that........ -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 13:53, 8 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Now sorted that bit too -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 09:00, 9 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Fast work! I am busy most of today, but will certainly look in within the next few days. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 13:51, 9 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for so quickly addressing all of the above.

  • Such was Arsenal's strength that in November 1934, seven players that started for the England side that beat World Champions Italy 3–2 (in the so-called "Battle of Highbury") were on Arsenal's books, a record number of players from a single club, which still stands today.[c]
    • Still is redundant (sentence says the same thing without it), today involves the same problem with
      MOS:CURRENT described above (more precise would be an as of year), and the citation/footnote is to 2007, which is not "today" and not current-- the statement may need to be checked versus more current sources. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 08:47, 10 November 2021 (UTC)[reply
      ]
  • Similar "Arsenal finished 14th, their lowest position in 36 years, and recorded the lowest attendance at Highbury—4,554 for a match against Leeds United on 5 May 1966.[75][e]" is cited to 2007. Needs to be checked for datedness (lower attendance during COVID ??? maybe), and if still correct, needs an as of date. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 08:58, 10 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • @SandyGeorgia: - for info, the lowest attendance at Highbury cannot have changed since 2007, as Arsenal moved to a different stadium in 2006..... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 09:20, 10 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • During this period, Royal Arsenal started to win local trophies, winning both the ...
    • win, winning ... collect local trophies ... or taking both the ... in either case, find another word to avoid using win ... winning. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 08:51, 10 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • There are still two HarvRef errors (see Category:Harv and Sfn template errors): SandyGeorgia (Talk) 08:54, 10 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • Maidment, Jem (2005). The Official Arsenal 100 Greatest Games. Hamlyn. ISBN 0-600-61376-3. Harv warning: There is no link pointing to this citation. The anchor is named CITEREFMaidment2005.
    • Weaver, Graham (2005). Gunners' Glory: 14 Milestones in Arsenal's History. Mainstream. ISBN 1-84018-667-4. Harv warning: There is no link pointing to this citation. The anchor is named CITEREFWeaver2005.
@SandyGeorgia: - all done, I think -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 15:21, 10 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you, ChrisTheDude. I had a hard time sorting the “Such was Arsenal’s strength” statement; based on the source, I hope this adjustment is accurate. Please review? If that is good, and pending a re-read from Hog Farm, I will be good to close. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 17:44, 10 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I'll give it a re-read after work. Hog Farm Talk 17:49, 10 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Updated to this. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 17:49, 10 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I gave it another little tweak :-) -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 19:03, 10 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
OK, so I am good to close without FARC, unless Hog Farm finds something that I/we messed up :). Thanks again for taking this one on! SandyGeorgia (Talk) 20:11, 10 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
After reviewing the changes, the article has only improved. Hog Farm Talk 01:22, 11 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Featured_article_review/History_of_Arsenal_F.C._(1886–1966)/archive1&oldid=1055284077"