Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of Boston Latin School alumni

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by User:Matthewedwards 05:16, 4 January 2009 [1].

List of Boston Latin School alumni

I believe the List of Boston Latin School alumni meets Wikipedia's featured list standards. Boston Latin School is my alma mater and I have put a lot of work into the article over the past week. This list would be a major point of pride for me, to have my work honored as the best Wikipedia has to offer. It would also be an honor to create the first list of high school alumni to become a featured list. The motto of Boston Latin is "summus primi" which can mean "we are fisrt" (it is the oldest public school in the U.S.) or "we are number one." I want Boston Latin to be the first high school to receive this honor, and have it be the best high school list on Wikipedia.

Thank you, --Pgp688 (talk) 06:32, 12 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments by Chrishomingtang

Comment

  • Can you move {{
    t 23:12, 12 December 2008 (UTC)[reply
    ]
  • Some rows are missing years. If the year is unknown, put an emdash in the empty cells

—

t 05:09, 13 December 2008 (UTC)[reply
]

  • Support —
    t 06:01, 14 December 2008 (UTC)[reply
    ]
  • I see four possible solutions to this. First, we could leave the article as is. Second, we could leave the cells without dates blank, but User:Chrishomingtang argued this was not a good idea. Third, we could estimate the year of graduation to be 18 years after birth, but we would have to indicate that this is just an estimate. Fourth, we good remove names from the list that do not have years. All of these options are not ideal. I'd like the input of another editor on this issue. --Pgp688 (talk) 03:31, 22 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Add a footnote that explains the significance of the dash. Dabomb87 (talk) 02:27, 22 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • I added this to the end of the graduate section: "— A dash indicates the person graduated but the year of commencement is unknown." --Pgp688 (talk) 03:31, 22 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Looks good, I tweaked the note a bit. Dabomb87 (talk) 03:48, 22 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It's not a requirement for FL, but are there any WikiProjects the page falls under the scope of? Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 06:27, 17 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I have added the list to WikiProject Schools, WikiProject Boston, and WikiProject Massachusetts.--Pgp688 (talk) 07:18, 17 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Support, all issues resolved. Dabomb87 (talk) 22:12, 28 December 2008 (UTC) [reply]
Resolved issues, Dabomb87 (talk)

Comment We do not start lists as "This is a list of..." anymore. Dabomb87 (talk) 22:20, 12 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • I improved the wording of the lead section. --Pgp688 (talk) 03:36, 13 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • I have reworked the lead section again. Nothing is boldface, and it now begins with "Boston Latin School is a public exam school, founded in 1635..." --Pgp688 (talk) 07:12, 17 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Much better, full review of the article coming sometime today. Dabomb87 (talk) 13:16, 17 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Dabomb87 (talk · contribs)

  • Images need checking, ping
    User:Awadewit
    .
  • "The school's first class was in single figures, but it now has 2,400 pupils drawn from all parts of Boston."-->The school's first class had a population in the single figures; it now has 2,400 pupils.
  • "The school's first female student was not until the nineteenth century. "-->The school's first female student was admitted in the nineteenth century.
  • "It was not until 1972, when Boston Latin would admit its first co-educational class."-->In 1972, Boston Latin admitted its first co-educational class.
  • I went ahead and changed the three sentences as suggested. I'm slightly hesitant to ask Awadewit because of the user's response to
    User_talk:Awadewit#Image_review_for_List_of_monarchs_of_the_Muhammad_Ali_Dynasty. I have gone through all the images and I believe they are all good faith public domain. Was there another user who does image reviews? --Jh12 (talk) 19:48, 20 December 2008 (UTC)[reply
    ]
  • Great, I'll notify that editor. Also on further review, I think there may actually be a problem with File:ArthurFiedler Japan.jpg (Star and Stripes appears to be independent of the Department of Defense and I think that image is under their copyright). --Jh12 (talk) 19:58, 20 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • I removed the photo of Arthur Fielder, just to play it safe, and added John F. Fitzgerald and Henry Knox. These images seem to have much stronger free use rationales. --Pgp688 (talk) 08:16, 26 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Sources look good. Dabomb87 (talk) 22:12, 28 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • Several of your references need last access dates: Refs 1, 2, 4, 5. If possible, can you make the last access dates formatted the same?
  • Ref 26 needs format=PDF added to it.
  • Ref 27 has something wrong with its formatting.
  • Why does Ref 31 use Brittanica? Generally, we shouldn't be citing to another tertiary source. Dabomb87 (talk) 23:51, 18 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • PDF format added to refs, Ref 27 fixed, Ref 31 changed to a published book, accessdates added to 1,2,4,5, all accessdates standardized to ISO format (although I'm honestly not sure what the cite templates are doing half the time). --Jh12 (talk) 09:27, 20 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • You did what you could; the remaining inconsistencies have to do with the way the Cite XXX templates deal with the input. Ref 1 uses Brittanica also, couldn't you use the official site instead? Also, you haven't resolved my prose comments and image check comment above. Dabomb87 (talk) 15:09, 20 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • User:Jh12 has resolved the prose issues and the use of Brittanica as a source. I don't think the image issue has been resolved by an editor who is an expert in that regard, but all the images appear to have lock-down copyright-free rationales.
Resolved comments by Orlady

Comment: It would be helpful if the table included a hyperlinked footnote symbol (either in the column heading or in the first appearance of the --) to help readers find the footnote to the table (the note that reads "—" indicates that the person graduated but the year of commencement is unknown). Also, I suggest simplifying the wording of the note to — indicates that the year of graduation is unknown. --Orlady (talk) 17:36, 24 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps it would be better to put the disclaimer before the alumni names, instead of after them. --Pgp688 (talk) 07:52, 26 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
A footnote would work also, but I don't know how make them. --Pgp688 (talk) 08:02, 26 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I can do it. Dabomb87 (talk) 14:36, 26 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, it looks good. --Pgp688 (talk) 21:55, 27 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, that's much better. However, it is necessary to say "the person graduated but the year of commencement is unknown" or would "the year of graduation is unknown" be sufficient? Since the table lists only people who graduated, it seems unnecessary to say "the person graduated," and the reference to "year of commencement" seems needlessly confusing (apparently the ceremony of "commencement" is being used here as a synonym for "graduation"). --Orlady (talk) 01:20, 28 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I agree, the original wording was unnecessarily verbose. I was worried that readers might believe the em dash means the person did not graduate, but by placing the footnotes in, this should not be an issue. --Pgp688 (talk) 03:54, 28 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. The above comments are resolved (and hidden). However, I have a new concern. Most of the sortable table columns don't sort "properly." The human names sort by first name -- not wrong, but not particularly desirable. Some of the dates sort properly, but some don't. Fixing the date sort may require expert assistance. --Orlady (talk) 19:02, 28 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • I think the sort by last name and dates have been fixed. I placed the people without dates at the bottom during sort. It can be changed to sort at the top with any lower number like 0. As for if the list should be manually changed to be listed by chronological order per below, I'll leave that up to the discretion of the primary editors. Thanks, --Jh12 (talk) 23:47, 28 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Looks good! Thanks! --Orlady (talk) 23:59, 28 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. All my comments have been resolved. Nice list. --Orlady (talk) 23:59, 28 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment 1: I strongly urge you not to use thumbnail images like you are doing. Make the images part of the table when relevant instead. --
    chi?
    21:59, 28 December 2008 (UTC)
    • I'll make this change. Revert if you don't like. But before doing that try adjusting the image size. --
      chi?
      22:02, 28 December 2008 (UTC)
      • Done, you can now add one image per person. As a lot them can benefit from this. Mind that some of the images are already on commons. --
        chi?
        22:36, 28 December 2008 (UTC)
        • Thanks for this change. With so many alumni graduating in the 17th, 18th, and 19th centuries, there are a wealth of free images available for use on this list. I can't wait to get started adding images :) --Pgp688 (talk) 05:05, 29 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment 2: All images are licensed & attributed properly. --
    chi?
    22:02, 28 December 2008 (UTC)
  • Comment 3: I would advice the chronologic of alphabetic sorting of the list. I know this can be done by clicking the arrows but it should be sorted by default. I'd advise chronologic listing by default as thats probably more interesting. --
    chi?
    22:34, 28 December 2008 (UTC)
    • I have been thinking about this for a while now. While most alumni lists display alphabetically, it is because the alumni are split into categories, such as sports, the arts, politics, et cetera. In this article, because the graduate alumni are in one big list, it is a really good idea to sort chronologically. I like how it shows that in its early years, Latin's graduates were mostly statesmen and ministers, but now the list includes many people from television, music, and sports. Furthermore, sorting alphabetically is only useful if one is trying to locate a name. --Pgp688 (talk) 00:16, 31 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Closing note: This

WP:FLC/ar, and leave the {{FLC}} template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through. Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 06:05, 4 January 2009 (UTC)[reply
]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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