Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of international goals scored by Sunil Chhetri/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by PresN via FACBot (talk) 21:55:40 17 November 2019 (UTC) [1].

List of international goals scored by Sunil Chhetri

List of international goals scored by Sunil Chhetri (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

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Nominator(s):
talk) 23:07, 17 September 2019 (UTC)[reply
]

I am nominating this for featured list because, first it follows all the Featured List criteria:

  • Written as prose with a good lead.
  • The article is comprehensive with all necessary informations and sources.
  • Have a organised structure with all tables, sections and heading required to display the the information.
  • Complies with
    WP:MOS
    .
  • The article is stable, no edit wars can be seen in recent times and also as all information are well tabled and with citations, there is very little scope of edit wars.

Secondly, the article has been constructed taking inspiration from FL articles like

talk) 23:07, 17 September 2019 (UTC)[reply
]

Comments

Despite the extremely quick support above, I found a lot of issues. Most of them are minor, but nonetheless they need fixing............

Resolved comments from ChrisTheDude (talk) 15:35, 18 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
*"As of 5 September 2019, he scored 72 goals" => "As of 5 September 2019, he has scored 72 goals"
  • "On 9 December 2011 Chhetri scored a brace" - Wikilink or explain "brace", as I suspect a lot of people will not know what it means
  • "win over Maldives in 2011 SAFF Cup" => "win over the Maldives in the 2011 SAFF Cup"
  • "only behind Cristiano Ronaldo" => "behind Cristiano Ronaldo of Portugal" (no "only")
  • "highest active goals scorer from Asia" => "highest active goalscorer from Asia"
  • "Chhetri scored the only goal for India in 1−2 defeat" => "Chhetri scored the only goal for India in a 2-1 defeat"
  • "thus becoming fifth highest goal scorer from Asia" => "thus becoming the fifth highest international goalscorer from Asia"
  • Is that the fifth highest of all time? Make that clear.
  • "puts him as tenth highest goal scorer" => "puts him as the tenth highest goalscorer"
  • "Chhetri's first international tournament for India was 2007 Nehru Cup" => "Chhetri's first international tournament for India was the 2007 Nehru Cup"
  • "where he scored 2 goals" => "where he scored two goals"
  • "against Cambodia in 6–0 win" => "against Cambodia in a 6–0 win"
  • " only Indian footballer who scored 50 international goals" => " only Indian footballer to score 50 international goals"
  • "14 in the Nehru Cups" => "14 in the Nehru Cup"
  • "rest have come in AFC Challenge Cup & its qualifiers" => "rest have come in the AFC Challenge Cup and its qualifiers"
  • "three international hat-tricks, most by any Indian" => "three international hat-tricks, the most by any Indian"
  • "netted twice in a match (also known as a brace)" - ah, now you explain it. This would be better placed where "brace" was used before.
  • "He has scored 11 out of his 72 goals from spot kick also known as Penalty kick." => "He has scored 11 out of his 72 goals from penalty kicks."
  • "He also previously appeared thrice for the India U-20 side and scored 2 goals in the 2004 South Asian Games,[13][14] which are not considered as the official ones." - well don't mention it then.
  • "Chhetri celebrating a goal with his team mate Anirudh Thapa at 2019 AFC Asian Cup group match against Thailand." => "Chhetri celebrating a goal with his team mate Anirudh Thapa in a 2019 AFC Asian Cup group match against Thailand."
  • "score column indicates score after each Chhetri's goal" => "score column indicates score after Chhetri's goal"
  • Why is the first number in each score column bold? You have already said that India's score is listed first, there's no need to bold it as well.
  • As it's a sortable table, you need to link everything every time. At the moment the linking in the stadium column is particularly inconsistent - you link "Ambedkar Stadium" the first FOUR times it appears but then seem to randomly stop linking it.
  • "FIFA allows maximum of three substitutes by each team,[57] but in the match listed below, more than three substitutes were made by each team,[27][58] thus the match is not considered as official match" => "FIFA allows a maximum of three substitutions by each team,[57] but in the match listed below, more than three substitutions were made by each team,[27][58] thus the match is not considered an official match"
  • Goals scored for the under-20 team should not be included. No other equivalent list includes the players' goals for under-age teams.
  • In the three tables under "statistics", goals should not have a capital G in the headers.
  • Lots of SHOUTING in the ref titles - fix that
  • You don't need to include both the website and the publisher in the ref if they are essentially the same (eg. www.espn.in and ESPN - in this case just have ESPN).
  • You have both "Rec.Sport.Soccer Statistics Foundation" and "RSSSF" as publishers in the refs - pick one and stick to it.
  • HTH -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 07:41, 18 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@
talk) 14:06, 18 September 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
@
talk) 14:17, 18 September 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
@
Dey subrata: I will do a full check later, but is there a particular reason why you have left in the goals for India's under-20 team? As I mentioned above, no other equivalent list includes goals for under-age teams..... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 14:55, 18 September 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
@
talk) 15:06, 18 September 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
OK, I am not 100% sure about that but I will leave it here to see what other editors think.
@
talk) 16:18, 18 September 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
Resolved comments from ChrisTheDude (talk) 07:27, 19 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
;Further comments
  • "On 9 December 2011 Chhetri had netted twice in a match" => "On 9 December 2011 Chhetri netted twice"
  • "win over the Maldives in 2011 SAFF Cup" => "win over the Maldives in the 2011 SAFF Cup"
  • "highest active goals scorer from Asia" => "highest active goalscorer from Asia"
  • "tenth highest goal scorer in the history of international football" => "tenth highest goalscorer in the history of international football"
  • "Chhetri's first international tournament for India was 2007 Nehru Cup" => "Chhetri's first international tournament for India was the 2007 Nehru Cup "
  • "where he scored 2 goals" => "where he scored two goals"
  • "in 6–0 win" => "in a 6–0 win"
  • "only Indian footballer who scored 50 international goals" => "only Indian footballer to score 50 international goals"
  • "14 in the Nehru Cups" => "14 in the Nehru Cup"
  • "AFC Challenge Cup & its qualifiers" => "AFC Challenge Cup and its qualifiers"
  • "11 out of his 72 goals from Penalty kicks." => "11 out of his 72 goals from penalty kicks."
Resolved comments from ChrisTheDude (talk) 09:45, 23 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
*The refs also need a lot of work, but I will look at that separately..... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 15:41, 18 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@
talk) 15:51, 18 September 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
@
talk) 16:00, 18 September 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
Comments
@
talk) 14:12, 18 September 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
Resolved comments from ChrisTheDude (talk) 09:45, 23 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
;Comments on refs
  • As mentioned above, you don't need to have both the website and publisher when they are essentially the same - this applies to refs 1, 2, 4, 6, 7, 8, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 31, 32, every one from 35 to 45 and every one from 49 onwards
  • Refs 9 and 11 don't have either a website or a publisher
  • Some ref dates are like 2019-09-19, others are 19 September 2019 - pick one and stick with it
  • For ref 22, the publisher should just be Rediff
  • For ref 10, the publisher should just be Reuters
  • For ref 58 the publisher is National Football Teams, but for ref 60 (same website) it is Benjamin Strack-Zimmerman
  • For refs which are archived you don't need to have "web.archive.org" as the website

HTH -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 07:34, 19 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@
talk) 14:30, 19 September 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
@ChrisTheDude: Thank you so much for your support, Chris on taking the quality up a notch. You are The Dude. Coderzombie (talk) 16:55, 19 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Apologies, but there's still some issues with the refs:
  • Ref 17 still has both www.fifa.com and FIFA
  • Ref 18 is to the same site as both 58 and 60, yet the parameters are different
  • Rediff spelt wrong in ref 22
  • Ref 29 still has unnecessary archive.org
  • Ref 57 has both resources.fifa.com and FIFA
Nearly there now, though, I think :-) -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 07:34, 20 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@
talk) 11:57, 20 September 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
Want to add that archiving of the references are done. All ok I think. Thank you.
talk) 21:02, 21 September 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
Comments

I've done a run through and picked out some points above. Kosack (talk) 07:05, 23 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@
talk) 15:05, 23 September 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
U-20 goals should not be included. Coderzombie (talk) 15:37, 23 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
BTW, one other thing I noticed - why are the unofficial games/under-20 games/hat-tricks tables centred on the screen whereas the big one is not? -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 15:33, 23 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@
talk) 15:38, 23 September 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
I would say they should all be left-aligned -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 15:44, 23 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Done.
talk) 16:37, 23 September 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
@
talk) 18:00, 23 September 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
@
talk) 12:20, 24 September 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
The sentence cannot be correct, because it states that he has scored 72 goals in total, and then it lists figures for each competition and they add up to 98. The numbers cannot possibly be right -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 12:22, 24 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
How its clearly wriiten the rest came in AFC Challenge cup and its qualifiers, 98 and the rest whatever goals...its from afc challenge n its qualifier... What's wrong in it.
talk) 12:26, 24 September 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
Forget the bit about the AFC Challenge Cup specifically. What is wrong is that you say he has scored a total of 72 goals, but the numbers for each competition add up to 98, as I have stated twice above. As an example, you say he has scored 39 goals in friendlies, but I checked the table and there are only 16 listed, a massive difference. Similarly, the lead says he has scored 14 goals in the Nehru Cup, but there are only 9 in the table. So all the numbers in that sentence are wrong. Do you understand the issue? -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 12:29, 24 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry I was talking about appearances. My mistake.
talk) 12:31, 24 September 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
OK, but this isn't a list of appearances, it's a list of goals, so you need to change those numbers to the number of goals he scored in each competition -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 12:33, 24 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Done.
talk) 12:35, 24 September 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
Have you included his goals in the Intercontinental Cup in the total for friendlies? -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 13:16, 24 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, it is. included the intercontinental in the friendlies.
talk) 16:53, 24 September 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
If they are not listed as friendlies in the table, then for consistency I would not lump them in with the friendlies in the lead -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 17:57, 24 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Done. listed as Friendly with name of the cup in bracket.
talk) 19:16, 24 September 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
No thanks to you, for taking your valuable time for it. And its a learning process for me. I will be nominating few other list too, hope and like to work with you in those articles too.
talk) 21:07, 24 September 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
Done
talk) 19:16, 24 September 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
  • I've taken another run through and picked out a few more:
@
talk) 14:43, 25 September 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
The link is piped to his full name but the actual article uses his initials. So you're forcing a redirect to the page for no reason. Kosack (talk) 15:51, 25 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@
talk) 17:53, 25 September 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
The two espn.in refs (now 47 & 48) have not been amended. Kosack (talk) 18:37, 25 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@
talk) 17:28, 26 September 2019 (UTC)[reply
]

Support Comments from Aoba47

  • For the second image in the lead, I would add (left) and (right) by the people's name just to make it clear who is who in the photo.
  • A majority of the dependent clauses with dates (i.e. "On 9 December 2011 Chhetri netted" and "On 5 September 2019 Chhetri") do not use commas to separate it from the rest of the sentence. The only exception that I see is this sentence "As of 5 September 2019, he has scored 72 goals in 112 official international appearances since his debut on 12 June 2005 against Pakistan." I would remove the comma for consistency with the rest of the lead.

These are the only two things that I can see. It seems that this list has already received an extensive review from other editors at this point. Once my comments are addressed and resolved, I will be more than happy to support this for promotion.

Aoba47 (talk) 01:33, 28 September 2019 (UTC)[reply
]

@
talk) 10:43, 28 September 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
Comments
  • "Sunil Chhetri is an Indian professional footballer, who..." The comma is unnecessary.
  • "His tally of 72 puts him as the tenth highest goalscorer..." Add a hyphen to make it "tenth-highest".
  • "In his debut match on 12 June 2005 against arch-rival Pakistan Chhetri scored..." Add a comma after "Pakistan".
  • "He is the only Indian footballer to score 50 international goals and..." Add a comma after "goals".
  • "1 in the King's Cup [6][16]" There is a space between "Cup" and the references. Either move them to the end of the sentence, or add a comma after "Cup" and remove the space.
  • The second image needs alt text.
  • The first table uses "#" for goal number, but the second two use "Goal". Choose one or the other. Also...
  • "#" should not be used to indicate number; use "No." instead (if you choose this style).

*My personal preference would be to apply column widths to the first three tables for a cleaner look/transition between the three. (Optional)

  • Why is "FIFA allows a maximum of six substitutions..." smaller?
  • The three International statistics tables need row and col scope.
  • Some references are in title case (1, 2, 4) others are sentence case (3, 7, 10). Choose one style and apply to all refs.
  • All else looks fine. NatureBoyMD (talk) 17:23, 11 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@
talk) 18:56, 11 October 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
NatureBoyMD (talk) 19:14, 11 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@
talk) 19:22, 11 October 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
Comments from KingSkyLord

@

Dey subrata
: I have a lot of issues with your list before I can reasonably say I would want to support it. I will try to do a source review very soon.

Resolved comments from KingSkyLord (talk | contribs) 02:23, 22 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
*The first two sentences of the lead seem really off. I would much rather prefer if they said: "
all-time top goalscorer and most-capped player
."
  • Don't refer to the 2011 SAFF Championship as the "2011 SAFF Cup" as the former is its official name.
  • Remove the list of his hat-tricks and unofficial goal. As interesting as they may be, I think that it is a little too niche to mention them in their own section. Those hat-tricks are already in List of India national football team hat-tricks and are listed inside the main list itself. I don't know why an unofficial goal is mentioned in this article but it is definitely not noteworthy considering that it was scored in a match where India made 10 substitutions, almost enough to replace an entire squad.
    • Anyways, those were my major gripes with the list. I look forward to seeing you improve this list considering how interesting Chhetri's international career is. KingSkyLord (talk | contribs) 03:47, 15 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@KingSkyLord: Thank you for review and valuable inputs. I have mostly fixed all your concerns except four of your concerns:
  • 2nd point, its a necessary info, other FL articles include such for example list of Messi you can check or Bale where you urself is the nominator i think.
  • third point, also added because the same is used later in the lead which I mistakenly removed before while editing, same you can find at FL articles like list of Messi and is also discussed in the first "resolved comments by the first editor Chris the Dude", you can check above.
  • Fouth point, Confusing, I don't find SAFF as SAF anywhere, please let me know what you are pointing, I will rectify if there is such.
  • Last point, about unofficial match (unofficial by FIFA, for AIFF its international goal for which they celebrated Chhetri's 100 caps while it was not 100) so, for viewers and readers it necessary to provide all information, most importantly he scored a goal in that match, is a international friendly match for both the Federation. Thats why not opposed by other 5 reviewers. And the hat-trick, its a very big achievements in football, are considered as an important statistics and a measure of accomplishment as they are rare. Secondly, its a record for Chhetri as most number of hat-tricks, and a related viatl info just like the "Statistics". As in other FL list, stats of hat-tricks are linked to series articles like of Roanldo or Messi (the box thing added below), it can't be done here in Chhetri's article as such series of articles is not created for Chehtri and also not possible as his careers is not illustrated as them. Secondly hat-tricks mentioned in other articles does not mean we can't add here, when its a vital information and a smooth read. Similarly most of the informations in the article is also mentioned in Chhetri's main article, but that does not mean it must not be added here. Again, I must bring to your notice that, if you go through Messi, Ronaldo and Bale's list you will find that international statistics are differently presented, some have "appearances and goals by opposition", "goals by confedearation" and "series of article" boxes, some don't have, but it shows that, all articles need not to be similar and can be unique but are correct and have proper structure and follows all citerea. So, such a list does not make the article bad rather making more interesting for readers. All other editors agreed to keep and I would also like to keep it. But rest all your concerns are addressed and fixed accordingly as mentioned. Thank you again.
    talk) 14:42, 15 October 2019 (UTC)[reply
    ]
@
Dey subrata
: Sorry for the late reply, but I do not think you fully understood what I was trying to say. I understand why your first two points and I will let them slide considering how minor they were. I still have a few problems though and those include your last two points and a few new ones.
  • For your third response my criticism, I meant to say "SAFF Cup" and not "SAF Cup", I accidentally made a typo. It would be better if you referred to the competition as the "SAFF Championship" rather than the "SAFF Cup".
  • The official name is SAFF Cup, it was my mistake that I did not maintain consistency the same in the table, now corrected. It was earlier known as SAFF Gold Cup, now known as SAFF Suzuki Cup. It is sometimes called as SAFF Championship, but the offcial recognised name is SAFF Cup. Here is latest cup website.
  • For your last response about why you justify the info about the hat-tricks and unofficial goal, I just think that making it "a little unique" is just an excuse to add a little bit more stats about his international career. Now there is no problem with making the list accessible, but adding the list of hat-tricks and the unofficial goal seems a little too far. No other list article lists every international hat-trick the footballer has ever scored. Cristiano Ronaldo has scored 7 international hat-tricks throughout his entire career, yet none of them are listed on his international goals list. I would rather have it if you mentioned how many hat-tricks and when he scored them in the second paragraph of the prose rather than in its own separate table. The hat-tricks can be clearly seen in the easily readable list that is provided below the prose. Putting when he scored those three hat-tricks in the second paragraph (which is about his goalscoring progression) can allow the reader to be able to understand why he has scored so many international goals so far. Can you at least remove the unofficial goal? It's not counted onto his international goalscoring record and is very useless compared to the hat-trick list. Yes, the AIFF may have "celebrated" it when he played for the senior side 100 times (not 100 official caps as you say), but they aren't the only ones who make a final say of whether or not a match is considered official or not. FIFA are the ones who make a decision on whether or not an international friendly is official or not as they are the ones who help organize the fixture. Clearly, the match was intended to be a public training match and not a full international as India swapped 10 of their players at half-time.
  • This list definitely suffers from
    WP:OVERCITE
    as references 1 and 6 are used more than four times, which is more times than they need to be used in the same article. I would highly recommend if you could at least put Ref 1 as an external link as well, seeing as how it is currently being used six times in this list. If you could at least remove the references to Source 1 from
@KingSkyLord: Fixed and added that one in the externals.
    • Those are my concerns for now. I genuinely want to see this list improved and actually become an FL for once. KingSkyLord (talk | contribs) 02:23, 22 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • KingSkyLord, you haven't returned to this FLC in a while. Would you mind having a look at the list again and seeing whether the nominator has adequately addressed your comments? Giants2008 (Talk) 02:34, 16 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • @
      Dey subrata lol I almost forgot. I've been very busy lately. Based on what I've seen right now, it seems as if all of my points have been addressed. Now, I am finally very happy to support this list's promotion to featured status. KingSkyLord (talk | contribs) 02:53, 16 November 2019 (UTC)[reply
      ]
Resolved comments from Giants2008 (Talk) 20:10, 6 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Source review – I have several concerns about the reliability of references in the article, along with a couple of other things:
  • What makes Indianfootball.de (reference 4) a reliable source?
  • Sportskeeda (refs 12 and 25) accepts contributions from users, according to our article on the subject, which would likely make it an unreliable source.
  • What makes National Football Teams (refs 8, 19, and 22) reliable?
  • What makes maldivesoccer.net (refs 23 and 24) reliable?
  • What makes thehardtackle.com (ref 28) reliable? It looks like a blog, which as a type of website is typically unreliable.
  • In ref 27, Times of India should be italicized since that is a print publication. On that subject, shouldn't it be The Times of India? That's always how I've seen the publication presented before.
  • For the authors, you have a mix of formatting styles, between presented first name first and last name first. This should be made consistent throughout the article, however you prefer to have the names listed.
  • The link-checker tool shows no dead links. Giants2008 (Talk) 21:36, 31 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
*@Giants2008: IndianFootball.de is one of the accurate and primary source of Indian football stats, it has been used in almost every National football related articles, also a primary source/statistician (Arunava Chaudhuri) for RSSSF articles, you can also check rsssf introduction for members who work for the foundation. These stats in this site is done with extensive research not only by him, but other journalist and former players. Here you can have a check at the Data Base where you can find that both RSSSF and Indian football.de are interlinked as the authror is the primary source provider for both. In short stats in both site are counter checked in both way, and RSSSF is most reliable data base of football.
  • Refs 12 can be called a reliable one as first the stats in the source are supported by match videos, that is the SAFF Cup semi-final match which is the fourth video in the article . Secondly, the cotributor is not a normal football enthusiast, but a well known football journalist in India, works for Hindustan times. Similary the ref 25 too supported by video of the match, so surely a reliable source as the visiual source of goal is also avaible. Sportkeeda is also the most popular football news website in India.
  • First of all the the site National Football Teams is a authentic site and same as RSSSF, is used all over wikipedia and in it all National teams and players data are kept in most accurate way. There are very few website where both players' data and Team data are interlinked, which means from players stats you can find match stats and from match stats you can find who played in that match, such a thing is not even there in RSSSF, which itself makes it more credible. In the site no datas are accept without any primary authentic source, anyone can provide but with authetic citation (newspaper source or Federation source) as we do in wikipedia. Now to prove that the stats are correct for ref 8, I added RSSSF article too, whcih matches the NFT's data, makes it authentic and reliable.
  • Maldivesoccer is a football news channel/organisation of Maldives. Its the first football website of Maldives is mostly primary source for lot of Maldives football. We too in RSSSF use data from Maldivessoccer for the Maldives football league datas. So its credible and authentic news site for sure and the data used for SAFF cup that is ref 23 and 24 matches with RSSSF.
All the above references are supported by additional sources, stats of both sources matches and thus are relaible and authentic sources.
  • Yeah I agree 28 is a blog. Removed, added new authentic reliable sources.
  • Times of India corrected.
  • Consistency in names fixed. @
    talk) 20:16, 1 November 2019 (UTC)[reply
    ]
  • @
    talk) 01:00, 3 November 2019 (UTC)[reply
    ]
@
talk) 01:11, 3 November 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
I'm still unsure about National Football Teams. I'll leave it unstruck so that the eventual FLC closer can consider it if they want. Giants2008 (Talk) 21:09, 5 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@
talk) 11:29, 6 November 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
@
talk) 19:36, 6 November 2019 (UTC)[reply
]

Promoting. --PresN 21:55, 17 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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