Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates/Einstein receiving certificate of American citizenship

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Einstein receives U.S. Citizenship

Original - Albert Einstein receiving his certificate of American citizenship from Judge Phillip Forman in 1940.
Alternative - Edit with dust and scratches removed and some noise reduction.
Reason
Image of high technical standard with considerable historical value.
Articles this image appears in
Albert Einstein, Phillip Forman
Creator
This version uploaded to commons by Abu badali
  • Support as nominator --WilliamH (talk) 20:36, 10 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Regretful Oppose Needs a good clean-up. There are spots and fibers visible over the whole. Clegs (talk) 22:46, 10 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Very Strong Support any Great image!--Mbz1 (talk) 01:59, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Conditional Strong Support - if the spots and fibers re removed. diego_pmc (talk) 07:25, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support meats FP standards, M.K. (talk) 10:46, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Neutral, as of now I'd like to see some cleanup before I vote. SpencerT♦C 10:57, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose until cleanup. Papa Lima Whiskey (talk) 11:44, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per many above, needs cleanup. Will gladly support a restored version.--HereToHelp (talk to me) 13:06, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I was in the process of cleaning up this picture and I was wondering what the gray area to the right of Einstein's left cheek was. Is it better if that were cloned out or left behind? victorrocha (talk) 19:08, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
It appears to be a spot on the photograph itself. I recommend that it be removed. SpencerT♦C 21:39, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I uploaded a restored version of the photo but I'm not sure if the license is correct. I'm new to editing and I would appreciate if someone would check it and make any corrections, thx. If anyone has any concerns about the photo feel free to mention it. victorrocha (talk) 22:17, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Please upload it to Wikimedia Commons.--Svetovid (talk) 23:58, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Bogus file history. -- carol (talk) 23:21, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Discussion concerning CarolSpears's Oppose
    • Maybe you can make it a bit clearer what you mean. Papa Lima Whiskey (talk) 00:22, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      • Bogus. Three words; do you think that if I use more words it will be clearer and more easily understood? -- carol (talk) 00:26, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
        • I think I can safely say we all know the meaning of those particular words. What PLW is looking for is for you to expand your point, perhaps showing evidence. ← κεηηε∂γ (talk) 12:20, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
          • I am unable to do that. I would be able to tell you how I change the dates of files on my computer and on my website, but I have the same interface with the wiki that all non-administrative wiki contributors have. There were no high resolution images of Einstein available at the commons last September, October and November. I can not prove it except that I was looking for such an image and did a lot of image sorting while looking for something like this and similar. I think also that it is a great image and wikipedia and the commons are (what word?) 'blessed' to have it; I am not happy with it being rewarded a 'status icon' though for the bogus file history. -- carol (talk) 13:29, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
            • Wait a minute. Are you saying someone hacked the Wiki database and cooked up a fake file history - for no possible reason or gain - and the only evidence you have is that you don't remember seeing it seven or eight or nine months ago? And the three people involved in the file between upload and the beginning of this year... were they also paid off using the same money from the Tri-Lateral Commission that paid for the file history to be faked? Matt Deres (talk) 11:48, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
            • I'll echo Matt here. This thread makes you sound a bit paranoid schizophrenic! Could it be that it just wasn't categorised correctly or to your expectations or simply that you overlooked it? Even if someone did do what you claim, that doesn't mean we can't find the image suitable to be featured. Its not as though we're rewarding the person who supposedly faked the history. An inanimate collection of bits and bytes that combine to form an inanimate picture can't be held responsible for an individual's actions so the 'punishment' of your oppose does not fit the 'crime'. Diliff | (Talk) (Contribs) 14:21, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
              • Nope, I am saying what I said. It is a bogus file history and I don't think that an image with a bogus file history should be given that special little seal of wikipedia approval -- which is how that template and the appearance on the Main Page is perceived. You are "reading" a lot of potential crimes into the situation I outlined. What would there be to gain from a bogus file history? On my web site, I use it the same way I used to fill in pages of a diary. If I saw something in some month in some other year, it gets written about and the date changed to that day -- not unlike the dated diary books I used to have when I was younger where I wrote on the page with that date. While you have been thinking about the crime that was possibly committed, I have been thinking about what could possibly be gained from behavior like this in a public forum. Assume the file history is bogus, what could be gained? Is it a good feeling to think that a bunch of know-it-all critics where so easily fooled? Stewie Griffin (Family Guy) went to high school and got a date with the coolest girl of all the coolest kids -- do you think it could be like that? -- carol (talk) 14:41, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
              • In theory, sure, I guess that's part of the drive behind most vandals, but you're going to have to come up with some kind of evidence besides your memory to keep from looking like a conspiracy nut. Faking a file history would require a lot of effort for very little gain. Let's say we *are* fooled by it. Nobody cares anyway; that's not much of a laugh for the perp. Matt Deres (talk) 15:28, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
              • To be honest, I'm not entirely sure what you are talking about.. I don't think it actually matters whether the file history has been tampered with or not, at least in terms of featuring the picture itself. It either is or it isn't up to the quality standards we expect of one. We're only judging the suitability of the image for Wikipedia. Your personal opinion on whether the history of the file is accurate is completely beside the point, no matter how vindictive the reasons behind it may be. I'd expect that the closer would ignore a spurious reason for opposition in any case.
              • Anyway, to address the issue of whether it the file information is correct or not, why don't we look at the original uploader - User:Mactographer - and his user page. According to the file history, he uploaded the image at 12:58, 4 January 2007. You claim there wasn't a high resolution version of any Einstein images in late 2007. However, not only was the image uploaded in early 2007, Mactographer also added the image in question to his user page in a gallery of images he had uploaded on 10:10, 6 January 2007 (Source). Oh, but of course the Great Einstein Conspiracy also means that those involved must have faked his userpage history too. If you're still not convinced that you've just made a mistake, rather than there being a conspiracy, then I suppose you never will be. Diliff | (Talk) (Contribs) 15:38, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
                • The photograph was not available at the commons at the end of last year. I do not think that this should be considered an example of the best that wikipedia has to offer; but perhaps it is.... Thank you for restating what I said first, btw, that I cannot offer any proof other than the fact that I was looking for this and other similar images and it wasn't there. Bogus file history is the reason I am opposed to this image being FP. More words did not add to what these three words said, did they? I am probably of a minority who likes to think that real contributions are the best wikipedia has too offer. Bogus file histories perhaps are the best and me and that minority are really really wrong. -- carol (talk) 16:06, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
                  • Unless the image was originally uploaded to the English Wikipedia under exactly the same name, then deleted and readded to Commons and had the file history faked, then it seems it was available, as Mactographer's userpage referenced it. I'm still not sure how you can be so certain that you are right. Its far easier to prove something is there than something isn't there. Its this reasoning that allows people to claim that a god exists. We can't prove there isn't, no matter how much evidence suggests there isn't.
                  • More words did not really add any weight of argument to the original three, you're right, but they did explain your reasoning, which was important. I could say an image has terrible quality, but unless I elaborate, nobody will take the claim seriously (unless it is very self-evident, anyway). Diliff | (Talk) (Contribs) 16:20, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak support alt. Good quality, but still not too close to FP. What exactly would the caption be for the photo? ¢rassic! (talk) 00:01, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose both Not that good of a photo, even a historical one. AFAIK, the photo is not well know on its own right, and as a depiction of Einstein, I don't really find outstanding. It's poorly cropped and lit, but what's worst is that it has been started on an old-fashioned retouching process—look at the paint to the right of Forman. The job was poorly done (it cuts into his hair) and not finished, leaving it just a distracting blemish on the picture. Not to mention that the scan isn't great either; a lot of that grain looks like digital (especially jpeg) artifacts. Thegreenj 01:53, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak Oppose as its a nice image, very encyclopedic, but a few errors which have already been pointed out. What is that grey part on the right, round Forman's head? Looks as if someone has painted on it? ← κεηηε∂γ (talk) 12:24, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • I'm pretty sure it's paint, probably from an earlier attempt to put Einstein and Foreman on a white background. I've seen something like this before, an unfinished paint retouching, but I can't remember exactly where... Thegreenj 15:23, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - Don't think this should have been cropped from it's original form, plus the paint mark is just weird. Like they were trying to remove someone. pschemp | talk 19:22, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per Nikolai Yezhov pschemp. Papa Lima Whiskey (talk) 11:04, 14 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Not promoted --NauticaShades 00:28, 18 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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