Wikipedia talk:Your alma mater is not your ticket to Wikipedia
Outdated and incorrect
This advice is outdated and incorrect.
Wikipedia:Trivia sections
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This advice needs to be updated or deleted. ElKevbo (talk) 19:34, 17 May 2021 (UTC)
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- On the contrary, while you might not yourself like the essay, upon reading it (I hadn't encountered it before) it is not outdated at all, and its advice is simple and sound. WP:N is nowhere cited in the article, and LISTBIO notwithstanding, "Notable {alumni, residents, etc}" entries are routinely deleted Wikipedia-wide if they don't link to valid articles. It takes a very problematic essay indeed to be subject to deletion, and you haven't come close to making a case for this one to be so objectionable as to warrant it. Ravenswing 21:18, 17 May 2021 (UTC)
- I won't engage with you until you assume some good faith. ElKevbo (talk) 21:30, 17 May 2021 (UTC)
- If you equate "good faith" with agreeing with you, you might have a long wait there. I don't presume you're acting out of poor faith here. I believe you're exercising poor judgment. Ravenswing 00:19, 18 May 2021 (UTC)
- I won't engage with you until you assume some good faith. ElKevbo (talk) 21:30, 17 May 2021 (UTC)
- This is still good advice. Practically speaking, individuals listed as "notable alumni" should be, at minimum, sufficiently notable that they're appropriate to have an article about. Reliable sources tell us whether someone is notable—they either extensively note them, or they, well, don't. Seraphimblade Talk to me 21:21, 17 May 2021 (UTC)
- The spirit of the advice is still useful but the multiple statements that "people in these (embedded) lists must be independently notable" is blatantly incorrect. It's very unlikely that we are going to (a) modify WP:LISTBIOso that inclusion in lists contained within articles required that the contents be independently notable.
- Beginning this article with "Wikipedia has strict policies about the notability of people" sets the wrong tone and immediately confuses list articles and embedded lists which have different guidelines. In fact, the failure to distinguish between list articles and embedded lists is probably the central problem. And it's one that can be solved. ElKevbo (talk) 21:30, 17 May 2021 (UTC)]
- If you think it needs editing for tone, well then, by all means do that. Seraphimblade Talk to me 21:34, 17 May 2021 (UTC)]
- Done. I fully expect someone who disagrees with ]
- Err ... have you read LISTBIO? Not only does it cite this essay, but it goes on to state explicitly that "A person is typically included in a list of people only if all the following requirements are met: The person meets the Wikipedia notability requirement [and] The person's membership in the list's group is established by reliable sources." Ravenswing 00:19, 18 May 2021 (UTC)
- Yes, I have. I don't think that you have because (a) the text you've quoted literally doesn't appear anywhere in Wikipedia:Trivia sections).").
- It would really be helpful if you stopped assuming that I'm stupid and actually conversed like a well-intentioned colleague. If you can't do those things then please stop participating in this discussion. ElKevbo (talk) 01:08, 18 May 2021 (UTC)
- Yes, I have. I don't think that you have because (a) the text you've quoted literally doesn't appear anywhere in
- If you think it needs editing for tone, well then,
- The spirit of the advice is still useful but the multiple statements that "people in these (embedded) lists must be independently notable" is blatantly incorrect. It's very unlikely that we are going to (a) modify
- I think realistically, this might be a conversation better had at Wikipedia:Write the article first which is probably the more well-known essay, and gets more than 10x the traffic. I think of this essay as really just a footnote to that. MarginalCost (talk) 21:36, 17 May 2021 (UTC)