File talk:Clip breeding-foaling-A Celebration of Horses.webmhd.webm

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Watermark removed

Syntax
$ youtube-dl -F https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MY_6VGWQqXY
[youtube] MY_6VGWQqXY: Downloading webpage
[youtube] MY_6VGWQqXY: Downloading video info webpage
[youtube] MY_6VGWQqXY: Extracting video information
[youtube] MY_6VGWQqXY: Downloading MPD manifest
[info] Available formats for MY_6VGWQqXY:
format code  extension  resolution note
139          m4a        audio only DASH audio   50k , m4a_dash container, mp4a.40.5@ 48k (22050Hz), 9.80MiB
140          m4a        audio only DASH audio  129k , m4a_dash container, mp4a.40.2@128k (44100Hz), 26.18MiB
160          mp4        216x144    DASH video   99k , avc1.4d400c, 30fps, video only, 19.17MiB
133          mp4        360x240    DASH video  233k , avc1.4d400d, 30fps, video only, 42.88MiB
134          mp4        540x360    DASH video  543k , avc1.4d401e, 30fps, video only, 83.52MiB
135          mp4        720x480    DASH video  992k , avc1.4d401e, 30fps, video only, 166.33MiB
17           3gp        176x144    small , mp4v.20.3, mp4a.40.2@ 24k
36           3gp        320x214    small , mp4v.20.3, mp4a.40.2
18           mp4        540x360    medium , avc1.42001E, mp4a.40.2@ 96k
43           webm       640x360    medium , vp8.0, vorbis@128k (best)
$ youtube-dl https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MY_6VGWQqXY
[youtube] MY_6VGWQqXY: Downloading webpage
[youtube] MY_6VGWQqXY: Downloading video info webpage
[youtube] MY_6VGWQqXY: Extracting video information
[youtube] MY_6VGWQqXY: Downloading MPD manifest
[download] Destination: A Celebration of Horses - The American Saddlebred with William Shatner-MY_6VGWQqXY.f135.mp4
[download] 100% of 166.33MiB in 00:14
[download] Destination: A Celebration of Horses - The American Saddlebred with William Shatner-MY_6VGWQqXY.f140.m4a
[download] 100% of 26.18MiB in 00:02
[ffmpeg] Merging formats into "A Celebration of Horses - The American Saddlebred with William Shatner-MY_6VGWQqXY.mp4"
Deleting original file A Celebration of Horses - The American Saddlebred with William Shatner-MY_6VGWQqXY.f135.mp4 (pass -k to keep)
Deleting original file A Celebration of Horses - The American Saddlebred with William Shatner-MY_6VGWQqXY.f140.m4a (pass -k to keep)
$ ffmpeg -i "A Celebration of Horses - The American Saddlebred with William Shatner-MY_6VGWQqXY.mp4" -c:v libvpx -crf 10 -b:v 1M -c:a libvorbis -ss 00:09:00.5 -t 00:00:42 out.webm
ffmpeg version 3.2.6-1+b3 Copyright (c) 2000-2017 the FFmpeg developers
  built with gcc 6.3.0 (Debian 6.3.0-19) 20170618
  configuration: --prefix=/usr --extra-version=1+b3 --toolchain=hardened --libdir=/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu --incdir=/usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu --enable-gpl --disable-stripping --enable-avresample --enable-avisynth --enable-gnutls --enable-ladspa --enable-libass --enable-libbluray --enable-libbs2b --enable-libcaca --enable-libcdio --enable-libebur128 --enable-libflite --enable-libfontconfig --enable-libfreetype --enable-libfribidi --enable-libgme --enable-libgsm --enable-libmp3lame --enable-libopenjpeg --enable-libopenmpt --enable-libopus --enable-libpulse --enable-librubberband --enable-libshine --enable-libsnappy --enable-libsoxr --enable-libspeex --enable-libssh --enable-libtheora --enable-libtwolame --enable-libvorbis --enable-libvpx --enable-libwavpack --enable-libwebp --enable-libx265 --enable-libxvid --enable-libzmq --enable-libzvbi --enable-omx --enable-openal --enable-opengl --enable-sdl2 --enable-libdc1394 --enable-libiec61883 --enable-chromaprint --enable-frei0r --enable-libopencv --enable-libx264 --enable-shared
  libavutil      55. 34.101 / 55. 34.101
  libavcodec     57. 64.101 / 57. 64.101
  libavformat    57. 56.101 / 57. 56.101
  libavdevice    57.  1.100 / 57.  1.100
  libavfilter     6. 65.100 /  6. 65.100
  libavresample   3.  1.  0 /  3.  1.  0
  libswscale      4.  2.100 /  4.  2.100
  libswresample   2.  3.100 /  2.  3.100
  libpostproc    54.  1.100 / 54.  1.100
Input #0, mov,mp4,m4a,3gp,3g2,mj2, from 'A Celebration of Horses - The American Saddlebred with William Shatner-MY_6VGWQqXY.mp4':
  Metadata:
    major_brand     : isom
    minor_version   : 512
    compatible_brands: isomiso2avc1mp41
    encoder         : Lavf57.56.101
  Duration: 00:28:48.56, start: 0.000000, bitrate: 938 kb/s
    Stream #0:0(und): Video: h264 (Main) (avc1 / 0x31637661), yuv420p, 720x480 [SAR 1:1 DAR 3:2], 804 kb/s, 30 fps, 30 tbr, 90k tbn, 60 tbc (default)
    Metadata:
      handler_name    : VideoHandler
    Stream #0:1(und): Audio: aac (LC) (mp4a / 0x6134706D), 44100 Hz, stereo, fltp, 125 kb/s (default)
    Metadata:
      handler_name    : SoundHandler
[libvpx @ 0x563f0acadee0] v1.6.1
Output #0, webm, to 'out.webm':
  Metadata:
    major_brand     : isom
    minor_version   : 512
    compatible_brands: isomiso2avc1mp41
    encoder         : Lavf57.56.101
    Stream #0:0(und): Video: vp8 (libvpx), yuv420p, 720x480 [SAR 1:1 DAR 3:2], q=-1--1, 1000 kb/s, 30 fps, 1k tbn, 30 tbc (default)
    Metadata:
      handler_name    : VideoHandler
      encoder         : Lavc57.64.101 libvpx
    Side data:
      cpb: bitrate max/min/avg: 0/0/0 buffer size: 0 vbv_delay: -1
    Stream #0:1(und): Audio: vorbis (libvorbis), 44100 Hz, stereo, fltp (default)
    Metadata:
      handler_name    : SoundHandler
      encoder         : Lavc57.64.101 libvorbis
Stream mapping:
  Stream #0:0 -> #0:0 (h264 (native) -> vp8 (libvpx))
  Stream #0:1 -> #0:1 (aac (native) -> vorbis (libvorbis))
Press [q] to stop, [?] for help
frame= 1260 fps= 20 q=0.0 Lsize=    5327kB time=00:00:41.99 bitrate=1039.3kbits/s speed=0.682x    
video:4914kB audio:385kB subtitle:0kB other streams:0kB global headers:4kB muxing overhead: 0.528180%

The least I could've done. This should also be a better source with no visible interlacing.

Disclosure: Special:Diff/791070660 was me. WubTheCaptain (talk) 05:31, 18 July 2017 (UTC); edit: youtube-dl -F output added 2001:2003:54FA:D2:0:0:0:1 (talk) 15:33, 19 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Edit dispute

WubTheCaptain, I don't know why you keep tagging this clip. It has already been reviewed, cussed and discussed, as evident on the page history. One of the reviewers is a former member of ArbCom and an admin, others are seasoned editors. Please respect what I'm telling you and stop trying to fix what ain't broke. You need to register and set up a TP so you can be notified, and stop going back & forth using your IP address or you may end up getting blocked as a Sock. Atsme📞📧 05:47, 18 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps you can show me where it says an editor can alter the original video and replace the original with the altered version? Atsme📞📧 09:02, 18 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I believe
OWN speaks to this question. As for copyright, we're claiming fair use in addition to your non-free license, so it would appear that your approval isn't required. Additionally, you licensed this "under the terms of [Wikipedia's non-free content policy]," which doesn't say anything about forbidding modifications. I'm receptive to arguments on the merits (A/V sync, for instance). Rebbing 13:25, 18 July 2017 (UTC)[reply
]

The discussion ended in KEEP. Perhaps your time and efforts on WP will be better served where they are needed. This clip doesn't need any further modification. What was already done threw the voice and video of the original clip out of sync, and that is not helpful. The clip is in use in the article it was intended for, and anyone who wishes to use the clip per the license, have at it. Just don't replace the original video that was uploaded with an altered version that may affect the license and/or conditions stated at the time of upload. Atsme📞📧 09:25, 18 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

12 hours later

Hi, everybody, I'm responding to the ping. Here are my opinions about the issues raised here.

  • Anyone is free to tag or modify the file, insofar as copyright goes. The copyright owner would have a claim if the modified file were being used for profit or used in a manner that creates a misleading or unflattering impression of the original work, or if the edit history that provides attribution were removed, but none of that is the case here.
  • Removing the watermark is desirable and an improvement, for the same reason that Wikipedia does not permit photo credits on pages. I'm talking here specifically about the watermark, because any incidental degradation of the file that occurs as a consequence of watermark removal needs to be avoided. (Perhaps watermark removal should be re-done with better technical features, but I do not understand the technical stuff well enough to really know that.)
  • Anything that visibly reduces the image quality or interferes with the synchronization of video and audio is unhelpful, and should not be done. It is not necessary to do so in order to satisfy the NFCC in this specific situation. It looks to me from the file page history that an edit by a different editor back in May, before this dispute began, initiated a bot-mediated minor reduction that probably is OK, and fully satisfies any NFCC concerns. (I haven't viewed and compared any versions at this time.)
  • Whatever becomes the consensus version of the file is not an orphaned image, because it is in use at one page, and there are no orphan-related issues involved in having the edit history of the file. However, earlier versions would be both non-free and orphaned, and subject to deletion, but can always be re-uploaded to take the place of the current version, which would then, in turn, be deleted.

--Tryptofish (talk) 18:00, 18 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

  • Thanks for your input Tryptofish, but please let's be clear on one thing - anyone can download the clip and use it according to the licensing agreement, which includes modifying/altering/shortening/etc. but they cannot modify/alter/change the original and replace it with a modified/altered/shortened version that changes its appearance and intended use because doing so may affect the articles, and why I cautioned about discussing such an action with the author first. With regards to the watermark - it was inadvertently placed by the free conversion site and I actually didn't notice it when I uploaded it - I thought it was a WP thing since it was a free conversion site I believe is recommended by WP. However, my understanding of what the IP did was go to the YouTube site where the original program is located, downloaded the original program, edited a different clip from the copyrighted program, and uploaded it replacing the one here, and that action is unacceptable because of the YouTube copyrights. We certainly don't want to get into that habit. They can download the clip here at WP, make modifications as they wish then upload a new file under a different name but with the same license for however they wish to use it - I never meant to imply they couldn't - but when an IP starts taking a free rein with copyrighted material at YouTube, be it with good intentions or not, and there's no way for anyone to discuss it with them on their TP (there is a way now) it naturally raises a red flag. Atsme📞📧 20:09, 18 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    • About but they cannot modify/alter/change the original and replace it with a modified/altered/shortened version that changes its appearance and intended use because doing so may affect the articles, and why I cautioned about discussing such an action with the author first, that is simply untrue. Yes, they can, on Wikipedia. That doesn't mean that they can put the altered version anywhere else. About what the IP did was go to the YouTube site where the original program is located, downloaded the original program, edited a different clip from the copyrighted program, and uploaded it, yes, that is correct (without permission), because what is at the YouTube site is still covered by copyright. And about the red flag, the other editor is talking with you now, here, so let's put that behind us. --Tryptofish (talk) 21:13, 18 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Non-free/fair use

WP:WATERMARK
, free images should not be watermarked - it doesn't apply to non-free/fair use so there was much ado about nothing. Furthermore, the guideline states: There is no firm guideline on allowable resolutions for non-free content; so scaling it down in size doesn't apply to non-free media.

My response to the IP as a result of his actions have nothing to do with

WP:NFCCP- the Exemption Doctrine Policy - and the licenses that specify how non-free/fair use media can be used. I highly recommend to all of you - IP, Rebbing, & Tryptofish
- to do a bit more homework on the subject because it appears none of you quite understand the restrictions granted under WP's Non-free/Fair use policy.

Oh, and thanks Tryp for stopping by and sharing your interpretation of policy and what you believed to be the case, but as a side note, you might wanna keep your day job.😜 I disagree entirely with your interpretation of Non-free/Fair Use which sounded more like public domain. I thought perhaps there was something I had not seen - a hidden clause, fine print, etc. - which is why I asked for you to point me to the policies to which you referred. In fact, the WP policy and licenses attached to the subject clip are very clear as I have explained below.

The rationale in

WP:FUC
states two key points that apply here: (my bold)

  • To minimize legal exposure by limiting the amount of non-free content, using more narrowly defined criteria than apply under the fair use provisions in United States copyright law.
  • To facilitate the judicious use of non-free content to support the development of a high-quality encyclopedia.

In other words, WP is willing to make a few exceptions after you jump through rings of fire to prove the media is worthy of inclusion.

I've bolded the relevant portions of the licenses as they apply to the subject clip:

This work is copyrighted (or assumed to be copyrighted) and unlicensed. It does not fall into one of the blanket acceptable non-free content categories listed at Wikipedia:Non-free content § Images or Wikipedia:Non-free content § Audio clips, and it is not covered by a more specific non-free content license listed at Category:Wikipedia non-free file copyright tags. However, it is believed that the use of this work:

  • To illustrate the subject in question
  • Where no free equivalent is available or could be created that would adequately give the same information
  • On the English-language Wikipedia, hosted on servers in the United States by the non-profit Wikimedia Foundation,

qualifies as fair use under United States copyright law. Any other uses of this image, on Wikipedia or elsewhere, may be copyright infringement. See Wikipedia:Non-free content and Wikipedia:Copyrights.

Copyrighted:

In addition to the fair-use assertion shown on this page, the copyright holder has granted permission for this image to be used in Wikipedia. This permission does not extend to third parties.

Policy

WP:NFCCP
begins:

There is no automatic entitlement to use non-free content in an article or elsewhere on Wikipedia.

The BOT apparently came along and tagged the other uploads for deletion: 

{{Orphaned non-free revisions|date=20170718201221}}

The above is why I became concerned. When an editor comes in and changes copyrighted non-free material in violation of its stated use - which was specifically for the article Sultan's Great Day - it creates a problem. I'm not saying an editor can't edit Sultan's Great Day, or decide to remove the video from the article if they can find a free clip (not going to happen, the horse is dead & you'd have more luck digging your way to China from Dallas, TX.). Editors can certainly try to replace the video, but they'll probably need to get consensus from WP:WikiProject Equine if they do, which is a fair and courteous practice when collaborative editing is involved. I'm also not saying an editor can't apply to use the media in another article, but they need to be prepared to jump through hoops like I did, and prove that its use illustrates the subject in question, and that there is no free equivalent available anywhere else. I'm not saying an editor can't download a copy of the clip and use it according to the Free Use criteria.

See the guideline: Wikipedia:Non-free content which explains how and in what way non-free media can be used. There's a section near the end of the page that reads:

If a work is not free, Wikipedia requires that it comply with Wikipedia's non-free use policy. As explained above, this policy is more restrictive than US law requires. Logically, material that satisfies the policy should also satisfy legal requirements as well. However, to be more certain of avoiding legal liability, and to understand the meaning of Wikipedia policy, editors should consider the legal rules as well. See fair use for further information, and the Stanford University summary of relevant cases, on the subject of fair use. Non-free material is used only if, in addition to other restrictions, we firmly believe that the use would be deemed fair use if we were taken to court. The Wikimedia Foundation reserves the right to remove unfree copyrighted content at any time. Note that citation sources and external links raise other copyright concerns that are addressed in other policies.

Happy editing, everyone! Atsme📞📧 02:02, 19 July 2017 (UTC); format edited 2001:2003:54FA:D2:0:0:0:1 (talk) 14:25, 19 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Notes

  1. ^ Special:Diff/791110343 and Special:Diff/791111751, the latter restoring the non-watermarked version.

References

  1. ^ Special:Diff/791071481. User:Atsme, 23:41, 17 July 2017 (UTC). Reverted edits by 2001:2003:54FA:D2:0:0:0:1 (talk) to last version by Ronhjones.
  2. ^ Special:Diff/791108708. User:Atsme, 05:37, 18 July 2017 (UTC). Go away - this clip has been reviewed by admins and thoroughly discussed. It is fine just like it is. Please do not add anymore tags.
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