Talk:2021 Minar-e-Pakistan mass sexual assault: Difference between revisions

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• Talk:Minar-e-Pakistan#En masse public molestation and sexual violence against women
• Talk:Minar-e-Pakistan#Removed text
• Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Guild of Copy Editors/Requests/Archives/2021#A section copy edit request

Bookku, 'Encyclopedias = expanding information & knowledge' (talk) 11:53, 20 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry: how sad this crime and accident may be, Wikipedia can't and shouldn't qualify every incident, sexual or otherwise, to merit a Wikipedia lemma. (See also Wikipedia:Notability.) --Corriebertus (talk) 13:26, 20 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Corriebertus: Thanks for your frank opinion. Bookku, 'Encyclopedias = expanding information & knowledge' (talk) 13:32, 20 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with

WP:NOTNEWS). I could help clean up and improve this article, but at this point it is not clear if it would meet Wikipedia:Notability (events). Best to wait a few months, even a year, and see if RS are still talking about it.VR _talk 13:29, 21 October 2021 (UTC)[reply

]

• 2021 August 25 مردوں کی رہنمائی کے لیے ایک بنیادی گائیڈ

• Going all wrong – The News International By Salman Akram Raja– Sr. Advocate in Supreme Court of Pakistan, (Part - I September 03, 2021), (Part II September 04, 2021)

• Post 1 month
  • 2021-09-25 Post 1 month Malik, Sana (2021-09-25). "The death of society". The Express Tribune Form news media column

• • Unsafe At Home Dr Saira Asad, bolnews

• • Media and rule of law

• 1 October 2021 onward
  • 'Women have to keep themselves safe because no one else will': When will Pakistan address its femicide problem? Anmol Irfan
  • Minar-e-Pakistan incident: Eight more suspects detained after victim issues statement
  • incident: Tiktoker Rambo claims Ayesha Akram wanted to extort money from suspects

• • The past few months have been harrowing for Pakistani women Dr Nida Kirmani 8 Oct 2021 aljazeera

• • Sawal Yeh Hai, Maria Memon , ARYNews , 9 October 2021

• • Why Pakistani Women Feel Unsafe in Public Spaces By Zofeen Ebrahim October 12 2021
  • Okay it's already in one academic study: Citation: [ https://www.mdpi.com/2077-1444/12/9/777 Shakil, Kainat, and Ihsan Yilmaz. 2021] . Religion and Populism in the Global South: Islamist Civilisationism of Pakistan’s Imran Khan. Religions 12: 777. https://doi.org/10.3390/rel12090777
  • October 15, 2021 Minar-e-Pakistan case: Rambo, 10 others sent to prison Abid Khan
  • October 18, 2021: Extreme misogyny or mere hatred, Zorain Nizamani, The Express Tribune

• • November 1, 2021 : Minar-e-Pakistan sexual assault case ~ ByMehmil Khalid Kunwar

• • November 9, 2021: Media and My Right to Dignity ~ Shagufta Gul

• • November 17, 2021: Victim blaming hampers the judiciary process:Pakistan activists ~ R TV Bangladesh

• • Nov 24, 2021 Police complete probe in Lahore rickshaw harassment case ~ samaa.tv

• • Nov 28, 2021 Beheaded, groped, beaten: violence against women in Asia is reaching alarming levels ~ Raquel Carvalho, South China Morning Post

• December 2021

• • 09- Dec-2021 Faisalabad Assault
  • December 10, 2021 Sialkot Incident: Ramifications & Recommendations

• • 13 December 2021 What is not Honor: Redefining Honor in South Asia ~ Dr Aisha Jalil, globalvillagespace

• • Reconsidering Justice 26-Dec-2021
  • What Pakistani social media talked about in 2021 ~ Pernia Mubashir, Dawn Images 27 Dec, 2021

• • Will 2021 Prove to be a Turning Point for Women’s Rights in Pakistan? Mehmil Khalid Kunwar December 28, 2021
  • Editorial: The year that was, The News International , December 31, 2021 "..In more violence, women continued to face gender-based violence, with the Noor Muqaddam and the Minar-e-Pakistan cases becoming apt symbols of the status of women in the country..."

• • The most shocking stories of 2021 ~ Shahid Farooq, geo.tv

• January 2022
  • From Noor Mukadam's murder to Gwadar protests, news stories that dominated 2021 aaj.tv Jan 01, 2022
  • ARTSPEAK: COURAGE AND COWARDICE ~ Durriya Kazi Published January 9, 2022 - Dawn
  • 5 Times PM Imran Khan Engaged In Victim-Blaming ~ The Friday Times January 10, 2022
  • Victim Blaming: The Practice Of (Almost) Every Pakistani ~ Mehak Zehra brandsynario.com, Jan 22, 2022

• February 2022
  • TikToker accused of filming in police van released, The Express Tribune Pakistan February 14, 2022
  • Noor's killer has been found guilty but society continues to get off scot-free for the way it treats women, The Dawn Images Editoria February 25, 2022
  • Vagaries of violence ~ Dr Saira Asad, thenews.com.pk March 01, 2022 originally published in December 2021 issue of SouthAsia Magazine

• March 2022
  • Domestic Violence: An Intolerable & Unacceptable Abusive Act ~ Dr. Saira Asad, Daily Pakistan 8 Mar, 2022
  • ‘Initiatives for women’s empowerment to bring economic development’, The News International March 11, 2022
  • Pro-women initiatives to open up avenues for massive economic development: President, Daily Times March 10, 2022
    • https://www.app.com.pk/national/pro-women-initiatives-to-open-up-avenues-for-massive-economic-development-president/

• • Muhammad Nadeem. (2022). IMPACT OF DOMESTIC VIOLENCE AGAINST WOMEN IN PAKISTAN. JOURNAL OF APPLIED LINGUISTICS AND TESOL, 5(1), 24-34. Retrieved from https://jalt.com.pk/index.php/JALT/article/view/617

• June 2022
  • Salam-Salmaoui, Rauha, Constructing Gender Identities Multimodally: Young, Middle-Class Pakistanis on Facebook , JYU dissertations, ISBN:978-951-39-9325-2 Page Preface

• July 2022
  • ‘Nuisance’ TikTok Creators Barred From Sacred Sites In Nepal, Eric Mack, forbes.com Jul 19, 2022

• • Thomas,Benjamin. Ten Horror Stories from the Depths of Social Media July 25, 2022

• • Dogar appointed CCPO for second time; Shahzad, Muhammad. The Express Tribune. July 30, 2022

• August 2022
  • Punjab Bans Filming TikTok Videos on 14 August Due to Minar-e-Pakistan Incident, Salman Ahmed, propakistani.pk Aug 12, 2022

• • Still waiting for justice in harassment case, says TikToker Ayesha Akram; Saba Yousaf, dailytimes.com.pk August 14, 2022

• • Women once again harassed at Minar-e-Pakistan on Independence Day, The Express Tribune August 14, 2022
    • August 14, 2022 مینارِپاکستان پارک؛ خواتین سے چھیڑخانی کے الزام میں 65 اوباش لڑکے گرفتار Minar-e-Pakistan 65 arrested for molesting women, express.pk ( On YouTube Urdu)
  • Flirting With Women On 14 August Independence Day Celebration At Minar E Pakistan; Daily Jang You Tube Channel (Urdu) Aug 15, 2022
  • Dozens of Men Arrested for Harassing Females at Minar-e-Pakistan on 14 August; Salman Ahmed Aug 15, 2022

Bookku, 'Encyclopedias = expanding information & knowledge' (talk) 09:04, 26 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

[1]

• https://www.thenews.com.pk/latest/716698-multiple-men-gang-rape-woman-in-sheikhupura-after-holding-husband-hostage

Bookku, 'Encyclopedias = expanding information & knowledge' (talk) 14:34, 28 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• https://www.samaa.tv/news/2022/01/two-veiled-men-arrested-for-harassing-women-at-minar-e-pakistan/

• https://tribune.com.pk/story/2344326/two-men-attempt-to-gang-rape-girl-in-lahores-sports-complex

Bookku, 'Encyclopedias = expanding information & knowledge' (talk) 12:47, 20 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Location

Imported from Talk:Minar-e-Pakistan Just for record: While one user admitting notability of incidence raised a query on my user talk page whether incidence happened @ Minar-e-Pakistan or adjacent Greater Iqbal Park? I replied as below:

Thanks for discussing.

Dawn news report: In the first information report (FIR) registered at the Lorry Adda police station, a copy of which is available with Dawn.com, the complainant stated that she, along with six companions, were filming a video near Minar-e-Pakistan on Independence Day when around 300 to 400 people "attacked us"....She said that she and her companions made a lot of effort to escape from the crowd. Observing the situation, the park's security guard opened the gate to the enclosure around Minar-e-Pakistan, the FIR quotes her as saying..."However, the crowd was huge and people were scaling the enclosure and coming towards us..

Samaa.tv report is more specific: A still from the video of the mob that attacked the woman on August 14, 2021 at Greater Iqbal Park and Minar-e-Pakistan....The incident took place on the public holiday Saturday at the Greater Iqbal Park at the Minar-e-Pakistan monument. The victim said that she was at the Minar-e-Pakistan with her friends to make a video for her YouTube channel when suddenly more than 300 to 400 men attacked them. The victim said when she and her friends tried to get away from the crowd, the guards at the Minar opened the gate of the fence and they went inside..The men jumped over the fence and surged towards us and started...

Even Prime Minister of Pakistan Imran Khan referred incidence in his speech as Minar-e-Pakistan incidence.

It is almost a two hour thing so more details will emerge as police investigation and court cases move forward. Again Pakistan does have track record of victim blaming and also window dressing media but same time over a period of time scholarly academic books also keep coming up and visible written and street activism from women's movements and civil society. so let us see how things move forward and kind of references keep becoming available.

Pl. do suggest. Thanks

Bookku, 'Encyclopedias = expanding information & knowledge' (talk) 14:28, 16 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Edit dif 1104699210 by User:USaamo needs dispute resolution.

Edit dif 1104699210 with misleading summary, seems to delete sourced and important content; same time adds content in

• Pakistan's Punjab's state government ministers officially stated that state of sexual harassment in their state is an emergency situation. (This is official the state govt position there we are not overstating, See: Dawn (newspaper) Dt. June 20, 2022: ".. LAHORE: Punjab will introduce stricter laws and declare an ‘emergency’ to curb the rising trend of rape cases. .."^[1] ).
• Similar sexual harassment crimes in public gatherings have happened previously and news reports say this year 2022 August 14, in spite of large police presence police had to baton charge miscreants and arrested around 65 of them. (Various references like 1, 2 are already noted on this talk page.)
  • This article is about 2021 incidence, this years repetition of similar incidence in same area has not been noted by international media as much of last year, besides this year news not covered beyond Punjab Pakistan hence we have not included 2022 information. Still, this is first time since this article creation views for this article were more than general article of Minar-e-Pakistan, (IMHO) most probably to find information on this year's incidence.

• The Minar e Pakistan incidence has been referred to by Pakistan's President itself more than once in clear terms that whatever how so ever a woman is in public space other men do not get any right to touch her and that is even un–Islamic.

Deletion

Deleted content: ".. According to a medico-legal examination, the victim was found to have dozens of bruises and scratches on her body including her chest, waist, legs, and elbow, plus inflammation on the neck and hands.^[2][3] The silence of the large group of spectators present, the inadequate response of security guards during the event, and the delayed police response were criticised.^[4][5][6] .."

a) Important parts of the content body are to be included in lede and not vice versa hence edit summary is misleading one.

b) When victim is under huge pressure of victim blaming 'medico-legal examination' is core supportive factor and needs to find place in article lede itself.

c) Failure in attending untoward incidence at a national monument that too on national independence day whatever the nature of incidence might be is glaring security flaw and needs to find mention in the lede itself.

Addition

".. The case later turned out to be a pre-planned incident for getting fame and extortion money during police investigation.^[7] Audiotapes emerged of victim and her associate Rambo about the planning which later on both blamed one another for blackmailing.^[8][9] .."

d) Above accusations are improper and unfair defamatory against female victim. Pakistan's legal culture itself allows accused to settle criminal legal cases against monitory benefit to victim. When men benefit in huge number of cases in rampant honor crime against women then men are not blamed but women are and credence

e) Above accusations still not part of official charge sheet against the female victim. Case is still in the court likely to be heard some time in coming couple of months. before giving credence to conspiracy theory IMHO respected editors wait for court rulings.

f) As I have gone through other article discussions even accused names are not supposed to be mentioned until charge sheet is filed. IMHO It is against Wikipedia WP:SUSPECT and conventions.

g) Following sentence on later developments as per police investigation is already noted in the section Police investigation without defaming the accused or giving credence to conspiracy theory yet not acknowledged by any court of law.

This balanced sentence taking care of Wikipedia policies is already there: ".. On the basis of a supplementary statement made by Akram, police also arrested some of her associates to investigate allegations of blackmailing. .." ^[10]

I do not see need for any unfair, and WP policies wise unwarranted changes until court hears the matter and gives it's judgement.

Bookku, 'Encyclopedias = expanding information & knowledge' (talk) 04:27, 17 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@ USaamo Can you please, provide us with any proof, where in police have charged the victim Ayesha Akram for any conspiracy before court of law?

Bookku, 'Encyclopedias = expanding information & knowledge' (talk) 03:39, 18 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

This case is not as simple as you're taking it up here and there are so many contradictions and twists that appeared in it with time. I'm clarifying again that I'm not denying the harrassment happened with the victim but the motive of victim and her associates for going there and later events which unfolded should be included as separate section for neutrality as per NPOV. Harrasment regardless of it happened and was unfortunate.

Now coming towards the twists in the case, the incident happened, its FIR was filed wherein Ayesha Akram charged hundreds of people for various offences in the incident.^[10] In preliminary statement complainant/victim called her associate Rambo and team as her saviour and he's from a humble family, she supported him with salary and he's like a brother.^[9] After sometime their audiotapes emerged which were made part of investigation in which both were conversing about the planning of the event on 14 August and in which dress she would be coming to the park.^[11] In subsequent audiotapes the blackmailing part came in where initially both seemed planning to extort money from suspect which she identified in parade.^[9] Afterwards another twist came in where in supplementary statement Ayesha Akram named her saviour and some others as the actual villains behind the incident and then both started blaming each other for blackmailing.^[12] Ayesha Akram wrote to DIG that Rambo is blackmailing her and that there's a whole TikTok gang. Rambo was arrested with other suspects.^[13] Rambo claimed that it was Ayesha who wanted to take extortion money from suspects and he refused after which she charged him.^[8] All these things are part of police file during investigation.

Other than this there are other contradictions related to the case like she misled police about her address, delayed to come on identification parade, in parade she couldn't identified many and most of them were discharged. Then she wrote to police that she doesn't want further action from her side. It was when audiotapes emerged that police took up the case on their own.^[7] USaamo ^(t@lk) 12:01, 18 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@USaamo I have already gone through the whole media available online while continuously updating the article over the year. I am quite ready to discuss all that, you will notice I had not named any accused name in the whole article since as per Wikipedia WP:BLP culture we editors are supposed to be avoiding naming accused until police officially frames charges in a clear cut case. Where complications and confusions are there wait till court decides on the matter. I hope and request you to understand steps of FIR, Medical report, Police officially framing charges, court taking those charges on record. We will continue to discuss all other things but meanwhile , On top priority can you remove accused names since that is not considered ideal in Wikipedia editing culture as far as I know.

Bookku, 'Encyclopedias = expanding information & knowledge' (talk) 13:45, 19 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Per

not public figures; that is, individuals not covered by § Public figures, editors must seriously consider not including material—in any article—that suggests the person has committed, or is accused of having committed, a crime, unless a conviction has been secured. If different judicial proceedings result in seemingly contradictory outcomes that do not overrule each other,^[a]

include sufficient explanatory information."

Per

WP:BLPPUBLIC, "In the case of public figures, [...] If an allegation or incident is noteworthy, relevant, and well documented, it belongs in the article—even if it is negative and the subject dislikes all mention of it. If you cannot find multiple reliable third-party sources documenting the allegation or incident, leave it out." Thinker78 (talk) 00:13, 20 August 2022 (UTC)[reply

]

So in the light of this the only point that needs to be discussed here is the removal of those two lines from lede for which I'm ready to co-operate as this article needs alot of improvements to be made encyclopedic. USaamo ^(t@lk) 20:08, 17 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@

WP:SEEKHELP. Cheers! Thinker78 (talk) 20:37, 17 August 2022 (UTC)[reply

]

@

WP:onus and WP:SUSPECT. Usually I work in non BLP segment so I am not that well versed hence I sought early inputs from editors who work in BLP CRIME. Thanks Bookku, 'Encyclopedias = expanding information & knowledge' (talk) 02:32, 18 August 2022 (UTC)[reply

]

@USaamo At the outset I have contested your changes and there is nothing personal about it. I am open about my pro progressive and women's rights POV and my pro women writings are certainly not limited to Pakistan only. Said that, let us come to the topic, I will prefer to discuss in above relevant subsections above, that will help discuss without mixing up the issues, if you do not mind. Bookku, 'Encyclopedias = expanding information & knowledge' (talk) 03:03, 18 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

And if you don't want any changes in the article till the judgement then by that logic there's no need of the article itself or most of the details regarding the case in the article as we should wait for court to decide for their inclusion... USaamo ^(t@lk) 12:08, 19 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Reflist-talk

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