Talk:2014–15 S.L. Benfica season

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Unknown transfer fees

I can't find the transfer values of Cláudio Correa and Derlis González. Gomes89 added these out of thin air: €3 million (Derlis), €1.8 million (Stefan Mitrović), €0.4 million (Filip Đuričić). Or maybe he found information in CMVM. Remember that rumours in the press about fees shouldn't be added. SLBedit (talk) 16:13, 6 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I fully understand what you're saying, but those values appeared in dozens of news in the press of many countries, websites, facebook, tweeter... So even though there may not be an official publication, so many different sources can't be mistaken. If only official CMVM or the clubs websites could confirm the values, there would be hundreds of values in many Wikipedia pages that would have to be deleted. But I also understand your point of view. (Gomes89 (talk) 23:30, 6 September 2014 (UTC))[reply]
Sometimes wrong information is spread (Garay transfer value). SLBedit (talk) 07:34, 7 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Check this source. SLBedit (talk) 09:02, 7 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I see, those are good sources, they divide the money that goes to SLBenfica and to Benfica Stars Fund. (Gomes89 (talk) 10:35, 7 September 2014 (UTC))[reply]
I've added André Gomes and Rodrigo €€€ corresponding to Benfica Stars Fund. SLBedit (talk) 12:09, 7 September 2014 (UTC) Garay also. SLBedit (talk) 13:28, 7 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Loans

Should we leave loans at the bottom of the transfers or should we merge them with the regular transfers? SLBedit (talk) 16:23, 11 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved
SLBedit (talk) 11:44, 9 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Cláudio Correa and Derlis González

In the reference it isn't said when Cláudio Correa and Derlis González were sold. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.242.88.88 (talk) 23:29, 7 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, it does in page 26: "A 31 de Março de 2014, os principais valores da rubrica de clientes referentes a operações com atletas dizem respeito às alienações dos direitos económicos dos atletas Rodrigo e André Gomes à Meriton Capital Limited, dos jogadores Derlis Gonzales e Caniza à Master International FZC e às transferências dos atletas David Luiz para o Chelsea, Éder Luis e Fellipe Bastos para o Vasco da Gama e Bruno César ao Al-Ahli Saudi." SLBedit (talk) 11:10, 8 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Then why did you say that André Gomes and Rodrigo were sold in January and not in March? Shouldn't we say that André Gomes and Rodrigo moved to Valencia?
Good point. 31 January is because of this and this. You are right about Cláudio Correa and Derlis González, according to that document the date of their transfer is unknown. On 31 January, the economic rights of André Gomes and Rodrigo were sold, but they were Benfica players until 30 June, and then were loaned until 2 December. Or should we say 31 December 2015? SLBedit (talk) 13:10, 8 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
That's what I wanted to say. The document says that it is from 1 July 2013 to 31 March 2014. It doesn't say the day they were sold. Why 31 December and not 2 December? By the way, what do you want to say when you talk about Benfica Stars Fund? For example, I thought Garay was sold for €2.4M and not €2.4M + €1.175M. If you say that Bebé didn't officially leave then you shouldn't say in André Gomes' page that he is already a definitive Valencia player because there isn't any proof.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.242.88.88 (talk) 13:38, 8 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, it's 2 December in this case (31 December is when contracts end in Winter transfer window). Benfica S.A.D. received €2.4M for 40% of Garay's economic rights and €1.175M corresponding to the 10% from Benfica Stars Fund. Bebé has not being confirmed by any club. The proof about André Gomes is this and his whole article. SLBedit (talk) 14:06, 8 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Strange. Everyone say that Garay was sold for €2.4M and not for €3.575M (the same thing applies to other players)... That's the proof I was talking about. In spite of the title it only talks about Rodrigo. Rodrigo was confirmed in Valencia's site as a definitive Valencia player but André Gomes wasn't. The article proves nothing as it also talks about that reference. Since when the Winter transfer window ends in 31 December?
€3.575 million is the total amount of money Benfica made, hence the plus sign (+) is used to distinguish Zenit's money from Benfica Stars Fund's money. SLBedit (talk) 15:18, 8 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, but nobody talks about it... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.242.88.88 (talk) 15:40, 8 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
It's sourced content. SLBedit (talk) 15:50, 8 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Ok. What do you have to say about what I said about André Gomes? Since when Derlis was sold for €3M? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.242.88.88 (talk) 15:52, 8 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
André Gomes is also sourced content. Nowhere, transfer fee removed. "31 December is when contracts end", usually contracts end in 30 June or 31 December. SLBedit (talk) 16:33, 8 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
What about Derlis? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.242.88.88 (talk) 16:35, 8 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
"Nowhere, transfer fee removed." I could only find an unreliable source and this. SLBedit (talk) 16:41, 8 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, I missed that. Where are Michel and Djaló? Supposedly they returned to Benfica, right? Then why aren't they part of the squad?
Not notable for inclusion although they appear in S.L. Benfica#Current squad. Michel has never played for Benfica, Djaló doesn't play for Benfica since 2011–12. SLBedit (talk) 17:12, 8 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
What about Steven Vitória? Don't Gonçalo Guedes, Victor Lindelöf and João Teixeira play in Benfica B? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.242.88.88 (talk) 17:17, 8 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Steven Vitória did not play a single match this season but he is a registered player since the beginning (has a number). The same applies to Fejsa. The only B-team players listed under squad information are those who have played an official match for the first team. SLBedit (talk) 17:21, 8 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, but they also appear in Benfica B squad... Should we write that Luís Felipe moved to Joinville in January? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.242.88.88 (talk) 17:27, 8 January 2015‎
They are still known for being Benfica B players. No, because Luís Felipe did not play any official match (Taça de Honra doesn't count). SLBedit (talk) 17:47, 8 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Ok. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.242.88.88 (talk) 18:09, 8 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
What is BSF? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.245.58.1 (talk) 16:33, 9 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Benfica Stars Fund. SLBedit (talk) 16:53, 9 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Ok. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.245.58.1 (talk) 17:04, 9 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
José Luis Fernández no longer has a connection to Benfica: http://www.record.xl.pt/Futebol/Nacional/1a_liga/Benfica/interior.aspx?content_id=924284 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.245.58.1 (talk) 21:13, 9 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Source says Benfica will receive 50% of the transfer fee, it doesn't mention how much money Benfica received. It only reports that Benfica paid €1.5 million for him. SLBedit (talk) 11:02, 10 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Ok. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.242.88.77 (talk) 23:20, 12 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Should we add Fábio Cardoso's loan or no since he is a Benfica B player? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.242.88.77 (talk) 18:51, 15 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Of course.  Done SLBedit (talk) 19:23, 15 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.242.88.77 (talk) 19:54, 15 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Add Hany Mukhtar to "Squad information". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.242.88.77 (talk) 22:02, 15 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Only if he plays a match for the first team. Currently we don't know in which team he will play. SLBedit (talk) 23:36, 15 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Ok. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.242.88.77 (talk) 19:53, 16 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Should we add Jim Varela? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.243.156.131 (talk) 23:16, 22 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Apparently, Jonathan was loaned and Elbio had signed a contract with Benfica in 2011 so he souldn't be added in this page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.247.64.162 (talk) 18:39, 29 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Please do not remove Enzo and Bebé/Tiago from Squad statistics. It's not "Current squad statistics". SLBedit (talk) 11:48, 8 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, sorry.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.242.88.88 (talk) 13:38, 8 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Multiple issues

This article contains a number of problems and may need to be tagged.

1.The lead section is too short and it may not adequately summarize key points of its contents.

2.The prose may need to be entirely rewritten since it's tone or style may not reflect the encyclopedic tone used on Wikipedia. Reads like a news report, it has no specific information (how the team played, events that should be mention like a recent loss, points advantage or disadvantage from rivals, injuries from key players, suspensions, this is 2015, there is no lack of information)

3.The prose needs to be referenced from October forward.

4.The squad information lacks sources for appeareances (the source provided only presents this season), and also when the contract ends.

5. The transfer in and out may not reflect what the really happened and could confuse users not related to the subject. There is a huge number of players that aren't first team players and never will. They should be on a 2014-15 S.L. Benfica B season, and some like Carlos David or Wittiness Quembo are players for the youth team and aren't registered to play professional.[1] Youth team tranfers aren't notable, because their seasons aren't notable.

6. The article doesn't mention a coaching staff, kit and kit information, and other information like President or Stadium.

6. Other smaller things like Statistics per competition and squad statistics, top scorers or clean sheets don't have references and could potentially be original research. --Threeohsix (talk) 20:02, 10 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

1. The lead section is fine, short and concise.
2. No to "entirely rewritten", you just want to change it to please yourself.
3. References are always good, it lacks inline citations, like nearly every article. Do it yourself.
4. You should try to find them instead of complaining and ruin (remove) other people's work.
5. It reflects what happened and is well referenced. Article is about the football season in general, and you don't know the players' future. A season article for Benfica B is a waste of time. (few people edit this article)
6. Do it yourself. Information is available in the main article.
6. (should be 7.) You should try to find them instead of complaining and ruin (remove) other people's work. It might be original research but the sources (match reports) support the information. Also read Wikipedia:You don't need to cite that the sky is blue. SLBedit (talk) 00:29, 11 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Well, the lead section isn't meant to be short or concise, it's meant to summarize key points of its contents; I didn't even offer myself to do it, not I made any suggestions that I would, don't know where you got that idea; Season tranfers don't reflect what happened, this is about a first team, because no B team article exist is no valid reason, I can be created, it's notable; The rest is just telling to go do the job which doesn't provide a objectable reason to the changes not being made, in fact it helps make a point, you believe it should be done, but don't want to do it; And thanks to admit it's original research, another point made; I think you should have a look what good articles look like and compare to this, see Wikipedia:WikiProject Football/Season article task force and go to GA or above. --Threeohsix (talk) 10:09, 11 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I see you like making points... improving articles, with quality, not so much. Do what you want but do not revert other people's months of work entirely, specially without discussion, or you will be reverted. SLBedit (talk) 13:57, 11 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, my point was to tag the page, not exactly work on it. It was the first sentence I wrote...--Threeohsix (talk) 15:41, 11 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
third opinion request
:
There has been little to no actual discussion here prior to taking it to
WP:3O
, and that is discouraging. That being said, it is important to note that tagging as described is appropriate; however, tagging is merely a band-aid. If someone finds an issue and just leaves a tag behind, it does not solve anything until someone actually does the work. If an editor is skilled enough to identify a shortcoming in an article, then they should consider fixing the underlying problem - not just slapping a tag on it.

Additionally, if material is challenged and removed for a lack of source, it is not to be restored until a

reliable source
has been found.
Original research
can be deleted immediately. Wikipedia reports what reliable sources have already published; Wikipedia does not create new material.

Finally, comments like "do not revert or you will be reverted" is a threat to

edit war over an issue, and is not acceptable behavior. Scr★pIronIV 18:57, 12 May 2015 (UTC)[reply
]

Not if a complete rewrite happens without concensus. SLBedit (talk) 21:33, 13 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
We could add more information to the lead when season is over. SLBedit (talk) 23:23, 18 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ "Players registered". LPFP.

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