Talk:Adult

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This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 14 September 2020 and 17 December 2020. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Funkd2019.

Above undated message substituted from

I'm no expert, but this section seems very POV to me, accusing adults of adultism and holding a double standard, as well as accusing them of immature behavior. 76.182.114.112 21:01, 29 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

accusing adults of adultism and holding a double standard, as well as accusing them of immature behavior. Well, that is not Wikipedianly-POVed/NPOVed, that is simply a truthful statement. KSM-2501ZX, IP address:= 200.155.188.3 17:27, 6 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I agree, that needs to be changed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.12.122.78 (talk) 01:50, August 30, 2007 (UTC)

I think that adults do think there better then others and do hold a double standard. I admit to doing this myself although I do think it's wrong. Those who don't do this are in the very very small minority and the majority of people do this but are ignorant to there actions. There should however be double standards as not having double standards would mean that all people would be able to do things like consuming alcohol. If a child was to make his own decision to drink alcohol when they are only small and the body isn't mature they would suffer from consequences they didn't know exist. This is why double standards do need to exist but they shouldn't exist in age. Using the same alcohol example a person is able to make a informed decision to drink alcohol at lots of different ages to restrict people because of age on this issue is very wrong as many other issues. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.168.63.253 (talk) 05:50, 6 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This is about tag cleanup. As all of the tags are more than a year old, there is no current discussion relating to them, and there is a great deal of editing done since the tags were placed, they will be removed. This is not a judgement of content. If there is cause to re-tag, then that of course may be done, with the necessary posting of a discussion as to why, and what improvements could be made. This is only an effort to clean out old tags, and permit them to be updated with current issues if warranted.Jjdon (talk) 22:09, 28 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Which number?

The legal age section contains the following:

15: Iran (21) 16: Scotland (21) 17: Indonesia (20) 18: South Africa (18)

Which one is the age - the number in parenthesis or the number before the colon? Either way, what's the other number? Tompagenet 13:57, 23 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The link at the bottom to the German child protection pdf does not look like it belongs to this page--BozMo|talk 13:33, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC)

This article only talks about legal adulthood, and only touches on biological adulthood. I think it should be expanded to include human biological adulthood.

I agree--biological and legal adulthood were the same in many societies, but are virtually unrelated in many modern societies. I added a bit about that, but it could use more. Adam Newton 03:30, 25 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I created a section for it, but it could still use some expanding. KPalicz 16:24, 30 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

"Some propose that moving into adulthood involves an emotional structuring of denial. This process becomes necessary to cope with one's own behaviour, especially in uncomfortable situations, and also the behaviour of others."

Err WTF is this psychobabble, it's either scientology or some kind of mumbo jumbo religion nonsense of some kind. Not quite NPOV. Some propose that it's deleted. Someone should try to change this article so it doesn't look like a definition of who gets admitted to an over 18s porn flick.--SeanONE

As this comment has been here almost two months and no one has explained it, I'm removing it from the article. Adam Newton 03:30, 25 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I added a couple of sources for some of this, but this article still needs sources. I'll try to work on adding more, but anyone else is free to beat me to it! Adam Newton 03:30, 25 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Can we get more pictures? Can we have a photo of a middle aged and old people? The child article has tons of pictures. Why can't this article have some pictures? We need to show some diversity. Is it that hard for people to go out to take some pictures. It's not that hard. (209.177.21.6 - Talk)

What's stopping you then? --Brideshead 21:51, 17 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I've been tracking edits of a potential vandalism account of which has edited this page, and I think I've confused myself a little on the reverting. I can't revert any more as per 3RR (I never like to go beyond 2), so can somebody please repair or revert my edits to remove the vandalism? Many thanks /Marbles 18:05, 8 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This is fairly vague, but if I understand its meaning correctly, a good portion of the human population - and nearly its entire population preceding the modern era - never truly reaches adulthood. I've been given the impression that prior to the spread of western individualism, personal identity was inseparable from the identity and welfare of the family, past and future. I may be wrong though. Closest thing I can think of to cite is Origins of English Individualism by Alan Macfarlane. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.207.141.223 (talk) 05:53, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This article could use some actual science. It seems to go towards the popular conception of adulthood and then ignores neurological and psychological conceptions of adulthood. In the neurological sense adulthood occurs in bursts throughout the teenage years and the early 20s. Why not mention it? YVNP (talk) 11:20, 18 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I agree. 24.255.28.107 (talk) 08:33, 20 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

First of all, you are not still growing or just finished growing at the age of 25!! Hello!!!

Secondly, the characteristics that define an adult in the "graph" down below is absurd. I've seen some very mature kids and teens that meet these criteria very well and some unstable adults (whether by a fault of their own or not) living in this world.

Punkymonkey987 (talk) 21:47, 21 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Where is the reference for the claim that "the age of consent for sexual relations in the Vatican is 12"?

Joo (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 10:36, 20 December 2009 (UTC). Adult —Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.68.217.25 (talk) 10:47, 13 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

What about skeletal maturity? The Wikipedia page on

Why is adolescence referred to as a "social construct" that was "created"? Isn't it a culturally, psychologically and biologically acknowledged stage in a person's life? On the Wiki page for adolescence, it is not defined as a social construct. I think there is some internal inconsistency here, with someone writing in a deliberate point of view because they have it out for teenagers. 23:30, 12 September 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.237.176.230 (talk)

It is defined as a social construct in the

talk) 15:28, 16 September 2011 (UTC)[reply

]

The article states, "Further evidence of adulthood as a social construction is illustrated by the changing criteria of adulthood over time." Shouldn't there be more research on these changing criteria? These changes can be subjective so there should be more objective points on how the criteria has changed. Toriwomack5 (talk) 21:23, 3 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I can't seem to find many references beyond this article that use "biological adult" as a key distinction - would I be stepping on anyone's toes if I reworked that section to focus less on terminology and more on the different ways societies have defined adulthood based on biological features? --Lunar Jesters _(talk) 22:04, 29 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not completely sure what you mean; do you mean that the term biological adult is used significantly less than the term legal adult? If so, I'm sure that the section headings are titled by those names not as indicators that the sources use those exact terms, but rather because there is nothing better to title those sections. Titling the first one Biological status of adulthood, for example, is long-winded, as is Legal status of adulthood. By contrast, Biological adulthood and Legal adulthood are concise. As for reworking that section, as you can see, that section (and the entire article) needs reworking. I don't mind you reworking it, but I would rather something stay there in that section about the distinction (including pubertal time frames/aspects), considering that legal adulthood is a social construct that some societies do not follow.

talk) 22:26, 29 September 2013 (UTC)[reply

]

This whole article is terrible. I was surprised to read that biological adulthood BEGINS at the onset of puberty (rather than say menarche and ejaculative competence (or whatever)). So, a 9 year old is a biological adult if she has breast buds??? I don't believe it! If this nonsense is in fact the medical and/or biological communities' definition, which I challenge to be fact, then a good valid citation is needed. The New York Times is certainly NOT adequate here. I guarantee you that a 9 year old is seeing a pediatrician and NOT an OB/Gyn (in the USA). Seems to me the whole article is in desperate need of a rewrite. The space allocated to pornography is ridiculous. The use of the phrases "the Christian Bible" (as if there is only one) and "Cannon" law (as if there is only one) is profoundly in error. I could go on, each section contains significant flaws. Adulthood has biological, social, legal, psychological/behavioral, and religious meanings. The lede's concentration on the biological and legal meaning and its ignoring the fact (imho) that the SOCIAL meaning (context dependent) is THE one most often intended is NOT the best way to proceed, imho. Please note that an 18 year old in a combat platoon is regarded (generally) as an adult, while that same person on a college campus might be considered an adolescent. (is educational adulthood another category?).173.189.79.137 (talk) 22:03, 12 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

As you can see above, I agree that the article is terrible. And despite currently being billed as the editor who has made the most edits to it, I didn't add most of the material in this article; the significant majority of my edits to it have been tweaks or

talk) 22:12, 12 October 2013 (UTC)[reply

]

As for puberty, I have seen enough dictionaries, encyclopedias and some very good scholarly texts define a child as "between birth and puberty"; so there are definitely

talk) 22:22, 12 October 2013 (UTC)[reply

]

Greetings, everyone. I've been following the Adult page for a while now. It seems to me this entry needs some further development. I propose adding a new section on the "Social Construction of Adulthood" to illustrate how aging and adulthood goes beyond biological and legal issues. I will likely be adding this section in the coming week. Is this of interest to any of you? Does anyone have any expertise in social components of adulthood in particular and the social construction of aging in general? Michaelramirez (talk) 18:07, 25 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

talk) 21:56, 25 February 2018 (UTC)[reply

]

Flyer22 Reborn I am new to Wikipedia -- not as a Student Editor, but instead as a Wikipedia Fellow (a cohort of 9 scholars were selected in January for the pilot). Thanks for your feedback. In our training, we were encouraged to post our ideas/proposed changes on the talk pages. I'm glad my post piqued your interest! I am quite familiar with the social construction of aging/adulthood lit. As of the draft I'm working on now, there are 12 academic citations. If you know of other relevant work, I encourage you to add them. I'd love assistance with this. As for the Fausto-Sterling reference on the masculinity page, you must have accessed the piece before I added the other two citations. F-S is a key source, so I started with her. It took me a few hours to find the other sources to add.Michaelramirez (talk) 20:42, 4 March 2018 (UTC)[reply

]

Hi again,

WP:INTEXT

. I wasn't stating that, at the Masculinity article, you only went by what one author stated.

On a side note: There is no need to

talk) 21:14, 4 March 2018 (UTC)[reply

]

Affirmative. Yes, one source I'm using is Arnett. The material I'll add, you will be happy to read, goes well beyond the confines of Arnett's emerging / young adulthood, and is attentive to dimensions of adulthood he ignores. A nice addition to the topic of adulthood in general. Many thanks. Michaelramirez (talk) 21:29, 4 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

talk) 20:21, 5 March 2018 (UTC)[reply

]

Yes, sources vary on when puberty begins and ends for boys and girls, but there is still a typical age range given in sources. Yes, more sources have started to cite age 9 for girls regarding the onset of puberty, but age 10 is still the standard because sources base the first sign of puberty for girls on thelarche (breast development), and thelarche is still most commonly defined as beginning at age 10. Like this 2016 "Women’s Gynecologic Health" source, from

JMccoy13, you can clearly see that I responded in the #Puberty material section above. For humans, puberty does not automatically equate to sexual maturity. Puberty encompasses sexual maturity. Like this "Clinical Pediatric and Adolescent Gynecology" source, from CRC Press, page 34, states, "The definition of puberty alone can encompass the process of sexual maturation, but a more expansive approach is to think of puberty in combination with the term adolescence. This differentiation prompts the practitioner to consider the psychological, behavioral, and social changes of the adolescent who is experiencing pubertal development." And puberty usually does not end at age 13. You speak of the Tanner scale, but the Tanner scale is not necessarily a solid indicator of pubertal age ranges and also goes up to age 15 for girls and boys. You might be interested in reading the following 2011 discussion involving me and sexologist James Cantor: Talk:Hebephilia/Archive 1#"Boys begin puberty generally at ages 12-13". You see that Cantor states that "Puberty typically lasts approximately until age 14." But his sources are mostly old and show age ranges of 13–15 for girls and 14 to 16 for boys for the ending aspect. He also stated, "Remember, however, that puberty relates to the age at which the growth spurt starts, not the age at which the growth spurt ends (which happens closer to maturation/adulthood). If a given boy's growth spurt were the last of the maturational process to kick in, then the age of the spurt would mark the end of his puberty even though it would be the beginning of his growth in height. [...] age of maturity also varies between modern/previous times, etc. So, I would hesitate to look too hard for [t]he definition of adult/mature, and instead to interpret each source in terms of the definition most logical to its own context." You can also see that we were clear that sources on pubertal age ranges vary. While I noted the sources that are reporting on girls starting puberty at age 9, Cantor stated, "I think what I am saying is that it is true that puberty can start as early as 9, in the sense that is is not a medical problem when it occurs, but that puberty at age 9 is atypical enough so that I would not use age 9 as an exemplar when trying to describe when puberty typically hits."

You referred to a

talk) 18:13, 21 March 2018 (UTC)[reply

]

Flyer22 Reborn , sorry this reply has taken a week, I was away from home. It seems that we are just arguing semantics: what the definition of puberty actually is. Cantor seems to agree with me on what the definition of puberty is: the process of developing to sexual maturity. It seems that many of the sources that you cite define puberty as some vague concept equivalent to the time in between the first signs of sexual maturation and reaching the age of social adulthood, whenever that may be. In fact that is precisely what your Clinical Pediatric and Adolescent Gynecology source does: it redefines puberty to mean the same thing as adolescence. The issue I have with this definition of puberty is that puberty should refer to the biological process of becoming a (biological) adult, while adolescence should refer to the social process of becoming a (social/legal) adult. This attempt at making puberty and adolescence synonymous seems dishonest to me, as if the sources were trying to replace biology with the law. I speculate that perhaps it makes those who formed these sources uncomfortable to know that many biological adults are not considered adults but instead adolescents, and that this is their attempt to rectify that inconsistency. However, there could be any number of reasons for a change in the definition of puberty. The fact is that puberty is a biological process and that there is already a name for what they are trying to redefine puberty as: adolescence. This redefinition of puberty would leave us without a word to describe biological sexual maturation, instead leaving us dependent on what the law says as if the law were biology. This disturbs me and is reminiscent of 1984's newspeak. Anyhow, the end of puberty must be marked by a biological event, not a legal coming of age. I have seen that some of your sources name that event as the cessation of bone growth. If this were the marker to end puberty, then puberty would not end until around 25, as that is when all growth of bones including the pelvic and pectoral girdles ceases. However, those same sources turn around and say that puberty ends in the late teens. It seems those sources are therefore nonfactual and perhaps should not be trusted. The other somewhat popular and, by the way, classic biological marker of the end of puberty is reaching sexual maturity, which is widely accepted in the medical community as the 5th tanner stages. Again, these are reached on average at the age of 14 in males and earlier in females. While some still normal people take longer, the majority of people have reached the final tanner stage by the age of 14. Therefore we should say here on wikipedia that "puberty typically ends around the age of 14, but can go on until the age of 15 or 16 in some cases." To put it bluntly, I think most of your sources are just plain wrong and are likely results of cultural stereotypes about teenagers. I'd like to know your thoughts on what I have said here before I edit. Thanks. --JMccoy13 (talk) 00:53, 31 March 2018 (UTC)[reply

]

I don't see that Cantor agrees with you, entirely at least, since you were claiming that puberty ends at age 13 (although you upped it to 14 for your "14:51, 21 March 2018 (UTC)" post above) and were stating things like "the process of puberty is over after you can have babies!" No reliable source states that "puberty is over after you can have babies." An 11-year-old pubertal girl might be able to have a child, but she is still going through puberty. Furthermore, I've noted that the Tanner scale goes up to age 15. And while you added puberty beginning at age 9 for girls, Cantor stated, "I think what I am saying is that it is true that puberty can start as early as 9, in the sense that is is not a medical problem when it occurs, but that puberty at age 9 is atypical enough so that I would not use age 9 as an exemplar when trying to describe when puberty typically hits." And, like I mentioned above, Cantor's own sources went past ages 13 and 14 for the completion of puberty and are mainly old. And your own MedlinePlus source disagrees with you. So do other MedlinePlus sources. I've already made my case with reliable sources, and with how sources can differ on the age ranges, and that we should stick with the age ranges most commonly cited in the literature. Doing that is in line with our

WP:Due weight policy, and it's what the article is trying to do now on this matter. And keep in mind that I'm not trying to have the section focused on the U.S. pubertal range. Not to mention that African American girls start puberty earlier than American white girls, on average. You speak of the the marker to end puberty, what sources of mine "name [the marker to end puberty] as the cessation of bone growth"? In any case, just looking on regular Google, Google Books and Google Scholar now, I see no sources stating that boys complete puberty at age 13 or 14. I do see sources stating that boys begin puberty between the ages of 9 and 14, and that a boy not having started puberty by age 14 is delayed puberty

.

Even this

talk) 18:22, 31 March 2018 (UTC)[reply

]

Emotional/Cognitive Development This article has a great start talking about several perspectives on what adulthood is, but something that could be added to enrich this article is to talk about emotional and cognitive development throughout adulthood. Jacquierico17 (talk) 00:20, 3 May 2022 (UTC)jacquierico17[reply]

What about sexual maturity age rated by the age at which a person becomes fully functional? Do men reach their full sexual maturity at 18, but women not until their 40s? (AltheaCase (talk) 23:59, 21 May 2023 (UTC))[reply]

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

24.165.205.42 (talk) 23:24, 16 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Empty request. Clearing. OhNoitsJamie ^Talk 23:27, 16 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I heard that this article almost exclusively focuses on humans and no other organism. (At least on the biological adulthood part) There’s should an other organisms part tho. 75.137.4.149 (talk) 01:27, 30 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I agree. There should be more information about other organisms. It should be titled Human Adult if it is just talking about humans. NDLitster (talk) 20:57, 1 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I deleted "historically 21" for lack of any citation to support the claim that adulthood has been historically 21. Probably the editor can find some citation to support that claim for USA relative to recent history, but what about in 1776? The colonial era? The Mayans? Pre-colonial Africa? China? What about world history? Middle Ages? Ancient Civilizations? Has modern society artificially prolonged childhood? AltheaCase (talk) 23:57, 21 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]