Talk:Alania

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A fact from Alania appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 25 August 2007. The text of the entry was as follows: Did you know... that the medieval kingdom of Alania controlled the most practicable route through the Greater Caucasus? A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2007/August.

Alan people originally come from baskia b.c. II century, they were invaders and skilled in fighting. when they start their movement some of alan people was spreaded in europe ,Italy, spain, and some of them settled in the turkey after this alan called this place alania known as a famous health resort. rest of the alan people went to the north and south caucasian mountain region where they took a place and called this place alan osetia,but the people who took a place in the south caucasian region they originally keept their name alan and nowadays you can see people with surname-alania"blue blood" people. every alania in south caucasia in "mengrelia" has blonde hair and blue eyes. which are tipically and original alanias. straight generation of great alan people —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.2.94.113 (talk) 07:07, 21 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

please see File talk:Alania 10 12.png. --Kober^Talk 04:44, 8 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Dear Ossetian friends, I undestand your excitment about my additions about Nakhs in Alania. You must be objective to that information because it is another opinion on population of Alania. And its not my own opinion, these claims are published on several science books, in Baku and Moscow. About Alania language. We really dont know much about the language they spoken. Please note that I didnt write there that they spoken some Nakh-Daghestan language. I just cited from a book that its not well investigated yet. And also as you know North Ossetia wasnt called Alania before 1994. Everywhere in Osset pages on wiki written that Ossetian ancestors are Alans and Sarmatians but there are no citations. I gave my and some scholars opinion with citation from published books. Hope you some patience to new discoveries. Nakh 05:06, 13 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

It was a joke? Alans were iranic tribes. Here is a reference to Great Soviet Encyclopedia. How can it be that Alania was a medieval kingdom of the Nakhs? You say that there are several science books published in Baku and Moscow. But it doens't matter where it was published, the main aspect is to provide a reliable source. Great Soviet Encyclopedia is a reliable source. Taamu (talk) 06:40, 13 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Nope dude it isnt joke. Even if that encyclopedia isnt updated since 1969 its acceptable as reliable. By the way I never told that Alanians were Nakh people, I think you agree that Alania was populated by Nakhs too and that we dont have any written Alanian sources to examine their language except the only Stell that can be deciphered easily on Iranau, Ingush and even Kabardian. So I think you should be ready to recieve some fresh discoveries. By the way

Unesco is reliable Cultural source. Nakh 07:55, 13 November 2009 (UTC)[reply

]

First of all that stell is read only on Ossetian. And that is not the only source. nakh, you have very narrow views on this topic. before editing please learn every points of view. --

talk) 09:23, 13 November 2009 (UTC)[reply

]

Nakhs lived in Alania, but it doesn't mean that (as you said) Alania was a medieval kingdom of the Nakhs. Nowadays Nakhs live in Moscow, but Moscow is not Nakh city. Taamu (talk) 10:13, 13 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

there is no relyable source proving that so there is no way nakhs theory appears in the article. There are theories about ossetians domination in areas what are now checnya and ingushetia in middle ages. But they has no relyable sources and what is more important their appearance to WP will crush the neutrality and will lead to conflict. Such edits decrease WP relyable.

talk) 10:54, 13 November 2009 (UTC)[reply

]

First of all the stell couldnt be read by scholars but political fanatic ones. Language of Sarmats, Scyths and Alania still secret to the world. Alania was a medieval kingdom of the Nakhs is cited from book. I didnt say it. Source I gave is much reliable than text piece on yandex.ru that is about 50 years old. U still didnt gave me any reliable source that decipher Alanian to Osset Ironau language. Nakh 13:08, 13 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Wow. Recently you've said yourself that you were citing USSR scholars. Right now you're saying that Great Soviet Encyclopedia is not reliable source. That's double standards. If you think that it's not a reliable source then tell me what is reliable?) P.S. Please remember the

WP:3RR. Taamu (talk) 13:27, 13 November 2009 (UTC)[reply

]

The USSR scholars cite written their book in late 1980s also there are another books. Anyway found some sites with satisfying facts on Osset language. Check www.alanica.ru if you read russian. There shown some similarities between Alan and Osset Ironau. I offer you to check it and add Language Section. You can use Alania Stelle.jpg its older than 100 years. It seems Osset Theory is closer than others. Texts written in Alanian close to Osset. Nakh 13:42, 13 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Some site like that showing evidences was the thing I waited from you.I advice you to make a really rich Language section to avoid further confusions.Nakh 13:44, 13 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Yep, I'll fix it as soon as possible. Thanks. Taamu (talk) 14:11, 13 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

"The third group joined the Mongol horde and soon disappeared from history." There is the khakh-mongolian clan овог "Asud" ("Асуд") (= Alans) in Mongolia. --> http://mn.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%90%D1%81%D1%83%D0%B4 Look also here --> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asud and here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alani : Medevial Alania: "In 1253, the Franciscan monk William of Rubruck reported numerous Europeans in Central Asia. It is also known that 30,000 Alans formed the royal guard (Asud) of the Yuan court in Dadu (Beijing). Marco Polo later reported their role in the Yuan Dynasty in his book Il Milione. It's said that those Alans contributed to a modern Mongol clan, Asud. John of Montecorvino, archbishop of Dadu (Khanbaliq), reportedly converted many Alans to Roman Catholic Christianity.[28][29]" 46.223.66.231 (talk) 23:31, 12 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Alania was not in South Caucasus. Georgia and Abkhazia was not different kingdoms.

https://tr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dosya:Alania_10_12.png — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lashalakerbaia (talk • contribs) 21:35, 12 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

"Please don't posting non-serious Ossetian propagandist map"

-- According whom, other than, apparantly (?), you is it that its a "non-serious Ossetian propagandist map"?

"Alania was not in South Caucasus."

-- Other than an expansion in that direction, I don't see anything wrong with this? I don't think anyone claimed that Alania was based in the South Caucasus?

"Georgia and Abkhazia was not different kingdoms."

-- I believe you're miscontructing and/or misunderstanding things. The image description on Wikimedia pretty much clearly states that the kingdoms' boundaries are superimposed on present-day borders.

What's perhaps more important here, is that you need to realize that

WP:NOTHERE editorial pattern leads us to other places as well, as you've been trying to do the exact same thing on other Wiki languages -- e.g. trying to get the image removed at all costs, such as here on the Italian Wiki and here on the Spanish Wiki

. When you put both the edit summaries the IP used on the Italian and Spanish Wikipedia's (respectively) in Google Translate, you get the exact same text as the IP/account has been using here on the English Wikipedia on numerous occassions. Surprise surprise.

Just notice how the IP and the account in question beautifully reinstate the exact same material and use the very same edit-summaries on numerous occassions. A minor demonstration;

IP 31.146.248.126: "Alania was not in South Caucasus. Abkhazia and Georgia was not different kingdoms. Georgia was founded in 1008 year when united two Georgian kingdom Abkhazia and Tao-Klarjeti. Bzarov is non-serious Ossetian propagandist pseudoscientist."

User Lashalakerbaia: "Please don't posting non-serious Ossetian propagandist map.... Alania was not in South Caucasus. Georgia and Abkhazia was not different kingdoms.

And another example here;

User Lashalakerbaia: "Georgia is founded in 11th century when united Kingdom of Abkhazia and Kingdom of Tao-Klarjeti."

IP 31.146.248.126: "Georgia was founded in 1008 year when united two Georgian kingdom Abkhazia and Tao-Klarjeti."

- LouisAragon (talk) 04:52, 18 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

This is non-serious reply. On this map Abkhazia and Georgia are different kingdom this is wrong! Abkhazia was part of Kingdom of Georgia. On this map Alania is spread also in South Caucasus this is wrong Alania was not in South Caucasus. p.s. Alanians speaking on Alanian language not Ossetian! Ossetians are other tribe Alans and Ossetians are not same.

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I've removed the section due to the issues with the sources. I've checked just one of them, cited as "Кузнецов В.А.: Алания в X-XIII вв., page 247." In fact the book has 247 pages in total, but I've reviewed the section on the political history (pp. 10-47) and there was nothing about the dynasty or any individuals belonging to it. There book cited as "Кузнецов, В.А.: Аланские племена Северного Кавказа, page 162" has the same problem, having 162 pages in total which makes it hard to verify the citation. Alaexis_¿question? 20:20, 12 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for pointing that out, I will fact-check the sources just to make sure that they correspond to reality. I also plan on adding links to the source for further reading Blasusususu (talk) 17:32, 13 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for adding the page numbers. I'm still not sure how the sources support the contents of the section. For example, the book История монголов: (Юань-ши) об асах-аланах talks about Arsalan and Nikolay, both belonging to As people, however they are not described as kings of Alania and the Sado-Orsoy dinasty is not mentioned. Alaexis_¿question? 19:34, 17 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Alaexis Hello i just want to point out that all of these sources from Tesaev are mostly based on folk tales and assumptions. I have read through them all and can help. These sources have been used too much on this article, as well as in simsim and khour articles (which i edited a lot on). Tesaev's sources are not peer-reviewed and can mostly be chalked up as folktale yet they are presented as facts. I proposed we return to the original versions of these articles but the editors (now an IP adress) don't want to talk. The source you mentioned relating to Yuan-Shi for example, this is just Amin Tesaev connecting and making a hypothesis on Alan princes from 1200s having similar names to Chechen folk tale heroes and similar stories. The problem here is that these stories are mostly folk tale from the late soviet eta (70's-80's). So they can't be written down as facts in my opinion. Goddard2000 (talk) 17:04, 16 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

That was my impression too, at least here. I'll need to look at the other articles you've mentioned. Alaexis_¿question? 06:45, 17 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Alaexis Feel free to tag me anytime, i have read through most of these sources and can help. I made the "Khour ela" article btw and now it is unfortunately ruined with hypotheses and theories presented as facts. I tried to revert it back to its original form but these IP addresses always edit war and undo my edits. Goddard2000 (talk) 21:46, 18 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]