Talk:Bring On the Night (song)

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Title of the article

So why the article got changed back to 'Bring on' when it should be 'Bring On'? Just look at Def Leppards's article on "Bringin' On the Heartbreak" for evidence. In this case, bring on is clearly a phrasal verb and so 'on' should be changed to uppercase. Here are some examples: "Bringin' On the Heartbreak" "Bring On the Rain" "Bring It On Home"

Chapa1985 (talk) 16:56, 16 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

That is not how it is listed in reliable sources such as
Allmusic [1]. Rlendog (talk) 19:53, 16 December 2015 (UTC)[reply
]

Its sail or itself?

"when the evening spreads itself against the sky" - interesting that quite a few online searches have it as "spreads its sail". The original T.S.Eliot is "When the evening is spread out against the sky", which is definitely not what Sting sings. 'Sail' seems more like the sort of word he'd use, but the first recording I found on YouTube it definitely sounds like "self" (the 'f' is fairly audible). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wizofaus (talk • contribs) 10:49, 29 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Move request

The article needs to be moved to "Bring On the Night". Chapa1985 (talk) 16:54, 16 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose move - all the reliable sources I have found, such as Allmusic [2] use a small "o" (unless they are capitalizing all the letters, including the "t" in "the"). Rlendog (talk) 19:54, 16 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Support move - The allmusic site doesn't seem to follow the rules very well. If you look at the page of the AC/DC album "Back in Black", you'll notice that they write the 'a' in "Shake a Leg" in uppercase which is not correct. Yet at the same time they write "Given the Dog a Bone" with the 'a' in lowercase! They are obviously inconsistent and not a good source to follow! That seals the deal, if allmusic.com is sometimes capitalizing all letters in song titles, then they are not following the rules we use here at Wikipedia! Chapa1985 (talk) 21:07, 16 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Allmusic does not capitalize all letters in song titles. There are sources (not Allmusic) that capitalize the "O" in on but those sources (again not Allmusic) also capitalize the "T" in "the," which as you note is not consistent with Wikipedia's capitalization standards. Rlendog (talk) 22:06, 16 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
What's going on is that according with wikipedia's capitalization standards, a phrasal verb, like 'bring on' should have both words capitalized. Just look here
MOS:CT Chapa1985 (talk) 01:39, 17 December 2015 (UTC)[reply
]
If "Bringin' On the Heartbreak" has the on capitalized (Talk:Bringin'_On_the_Heartbreak - scroll down to the bottom of the page) on the grounds that according to Wikipedia's MOS:CT, phrasal verbs are to be fully capitalized, then this article needs to be moved, period. We have to be consistent with the manual of style. Chapa1985 (talk) 18:18, 20 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 2 April 2017

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Moved all per rough consensus. The supporters argued well according to policy and precedent. The only opposer did not return to the discussion. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 11:49, 25 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

– In these titles, "on" is not a preposition, but part of the phrasal verb "bring on", so it should be capitalized per

MOS:CT. Compare Bring On the Rain and Bring On the Dancing Horses. Darkday (talk) 11:47, 2 April 2017 (UTC) --Relisting. Anarchyte (work | talk) 06:44, 10 April 2017 (UTC)--Relisting. Yashovardhan (talk) 10:53, 17 April 2017 (UTC)[reply
]

  • Meh - I would have leaned toward oppose, but I couldn't per Talk:Hand On the Torch. I guess sources are divided: one discussing a film, one book, another book, one bio, one about Springsteen's songs, encyclopedia, etc. Regardless of sources, I guess "Bring On" is a phrasal verb after all. If grammar is the matter, then I won't oppose the proposal. George Ho (talk) 00:44, 18 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - As discussed above, reliable sources typically use the small "o" (except those that also capitalize the "T", which would certainly violate WP:MOS). The article in Wikipedia should reflect the actual title of the song, not our own view of how the song's title's grammar should have worked. Rlendog (talk) 13:44, 18 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. Huh. Nominator is correct. It is "[Bring On] the [Thing]", not "Bring [on] [the] [Thing]" in these cases. It matters. Look at the discussion at Hand On the Torch, where it is (correctly) pointed out that "Hand On the Torch" means "Pass the torch" whereas "Hand on the Torch" means "Someone is touching the torch". Two entirely different meanings. Interesting point, and correct IMO. It is just wrong and misleading not to indicate that "Bring On" is a unitary term, here.
"[Bring On] [the] [Night]" means "Let the night begin!" (it is an idiom) whereas "[Bring] [on] [the] [Night]" means.... something like "When night comes, bring [something unspecified]", I guess, if it means anything. Two entirely different meanings.
As to the "what do sources say" argument, no. We don't consult sources for manual-of-style questions. Very often sources will capitalize everything ("Man In A Bottle") or nothing except the beginning ("Man in a bottle"), and we properly ignore that -- they follow their manual of style, we follow ours. (We do consult preponderance-of-sources for the actual wording of the names of entities -- whether something is called "Bring On the Night" or "Bring the Night" -- but not for details like capitalization.) Herostratus (talk) 01:28, 24 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
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